bit about your losses i know you've had some losses in your life and one of the things that's really interesting to me is that i know both classes had to do a parent last year and that's really important because heidi and i have found we have an over a half one million people that are visiting our site at open to dot com and we were really surprised because we were looking at all of our data and we found that the nd most visited thing or looked for search for the loss of a parent and you know that's the internet it's not little kids that are looking for it you know that is saying i lost my that it's adult saying i've lost a parent what now i didn't think it was going to hit me like that and i think people are surprised when an adult parent goes and even older would have been taking care who are having a parent die is big and i know you guys can talk about this too but i remember when my father in law died and my husband said you know my whole life i've done things neat my dad proud that's why i did them and now he's not here right now so and we've just had a recent family situation where my son in law's dad died and he said had a had a hard time with it and and you know i'm not really sure you know what you do is watching a lot of t v and video games and stuff like that and heidi and i have found that men are more instrumental and like to do and that kind of thing so he seems to respond when i say why don't we go do something you know what you come over for this or he likes to invite us over and fix dinner you know that kind of thing but i don't think it was the sit around and talk about it even and probably be even scares and worse that we're the positive light and aspect and that's what happened to me when my father my father passed away we had a very good relationship but it's even stronger now and in fact my father is very instrumental today not being physical in my life or my daily activities he's a he's a guiding force that's amazing you know and we feel that way about scott knowing absolutely he is a guiding light and i really like what you're saying john because the biggest fear that people often have is that they're going to forget over time forget their loved ones forget the memories forget with what they meant to them in their life but you're here to say that doesn't happen doesn't happen at all yeah doesn't have but it was there in your heart there won't be in your heart and you know when you try to hold their stuff so close to it it doesn't leave you space to open up  and so chris how about you your experience my mom and dad both of them passed away when they were very young especially my mom she passed away when she was fifty nine and at the time and never thought that i was going to get over the grief that i was going through with her with her passing the my dad passed away five years after that he had cancer and it was just such a debilitating disease and it was just so draining on everyone that one day i just i was down in like he is asking how can i get through this and and i just had this knowing man i would be able to get through this so if you're going through that now you will get through it because we all eventually do get through with some someway somehow and we'll be talking a little bit more about how to do that how to get back in to the life again after that the passing of a loved one i like what you're saying chris that you will get through it because early on i know my brother died the pain was so great that i honestly thought i was going to die of a broken heart and i didn't know how it was going to get through it so hearing people that are further down the road and seeing them is the lifeline that sometimes we need right and it shows us that we're stronger than what we really know we all now what if not not everybody gets along with their parents and  you know what if my dad beat me up for one of my mother screamed at me and my parents were divorced i had you know the separation it and now i actually had a nephew who got in touch with me recently and said  my brothers that just died and and i wondered if i should get closer to my dad because he's having a lot of trouble dealing with it will i have less trouble if i get in touch with them now i thought of what about this i'm below a relationship and that can change and some of them what  i like to say about those within every life situation no matter how tragic or how painful it appears to be and there's a lot of pain that we all experience as human beings within it is a cloud it's a dark cloud and th is there is that silver lining in it you know one of the things that chris and i do with clients is we suggest that within that cloud there's an opportunity for you it's truly an opportunity for all of us who are all on a journey we're all he experience life with its pitfalls and its ups and its downs and all of that so it's really it's really an opportunity and we christian i always look at what is the feedback what is the opportunity for you in the situation even mistakes do not make you yeah very good and that gets into forgiveness right exactly and that's how you can change your relationship with someone who has passed on in the end up here in physical form but through the power forgiveness you can shift the energy that you may be holding around to that person and then the case i had a lot to give with my father when he passed on and he was no longer here but for me to do that what i did was i wrote a letter forgiveness letter to him and then i went to the cemetery and i burned it there to kind of just release some of the negative that's great how do you well let's see if we can take up a question from on it is this question is for either one of you you say you stay focused on the living and being of service in some way but what if you don't have someone close in your life to focus on  one thing i would like to say is you always have yourself the matter who leaves you in your life is always you so it's own very important to strengthen yourself and always be there for you learn how to become your own best friend  and also i was just like to add also there's so many opportunities today to be out there and volunteer you know when you're of service and it can be the simplest of acts you know just picking up a broom and sweeping someone's walkway it's so uplifting to be of service and it's amazing at the end of the day when you put your head on the pillow and you know that you've given a part of yourself to someone else and it can be a complete stranger it makes a world of difference and the next day after that has a lot more brightness to it than the day before and john like what you're saying about  a complete stranger because the other day i was leaving manhattan on the west side highway i got to the toll booth and the toll booth person said the guy in front of you just paid your toll in honor of his daughter that died and i was so moved by that and i said look i want to pay the guy behind these tall in honor of my brother so yes you can do it be a service even to strangers a really important point ok anybody else yes my name is carolyn and i'm wondering what if i'm having a really hard time finding any good memories about my deceased loved one how do i deal with that you know what i recommend is to just tap into your heart spend some quiet time and really dig into may take some time to go through your memories go through the past go through your emotions and dig a little bit deeper until you find something i can guarantee you will find at least one good memory and then expand on that memory memory again and again and again and you know that that makes me think about the fact that people are afraid they're going to forget that sometimes they hold those memories five high that they can't remember but we do have an ambivalent relationship and i think that gets into your forgiveness you know kind of thing a time like that to reach out and then also to nurture yourself self nurturing is so important it's not being selfish and it's not something to feel guilty about because the person who has moved on wants you to live and it's importance on the stamina to know that so when you fill yourself up then you were more of a service to people around you and and sometimes giving people the opportunity to see their view is given them again so i will you know for the pain i mean i always going to have ron paul mano on ron is great and he'll he'll be on our show he's a psychologist and a friend of ours and he wrote is the author of the thing and then we're going to take milk our thing her thong writer and people can find her on the net take mal together and he has written this book called the zing and he is so positive he just he's like these guys he's like ron and i mean he's like john and cress you know he lives it every day he talks the talk and he walks the walk and he h geysers what do you think i said what i think is they have your money you don't need me because the answers on the wall is done and that means and what do you think is really happening was there was your wife your husband you lost your job night even the anal obsessive the goals of people can't even do it it's impossible so what makes you think that when you walk out of here everything is going to go the way you think it was there's change waiting to happen and within you of you have the power member that never forget nothing external can ever make you happy nothing external will make you happy no relationship no money nothing wealthy people wealthy people also get said and i'm miserable but don't be for the money isn't make them unhappy they are unhappy to begin with and all the money did was the press the more because now they've got the is very tough and anyone who has lost a child understands that the pain of losing a child is just horrendous tremendous and it's not something you could ever even you can't fathom until you live it and i always say to people had loss of a child that we were in a lousy club because it's you know the initiation was very hard to pay but we are in this club and you know what i'm here to tell people is that yes i was miserable i was depressed when i lost my son michael at seventeen years old they said you know i said he took my life he didn't even get out of bed nothing can get out of bed couldn't do i can't imagine you totally shut down i was so shut down lost about thirty five pounds people thought there was much more going on with me than then the loss and really that's what it was about you shut me down i couldn't do anything for many years i know people watching this show some people out there feeling the same way but i'm here to give some good news i say you know now michael gave me life you know i understand that death is real and i believe when you know death is real when you start living and i believe now it's real and i live every single moment when i see people more on the show i don't live in a networking world i live in a world i live in the moment i'm here for a purpose and a reason and i hope my purpose on your show and you know i love you to god you guys do a great job is that maybe someone listening a person i will plant the seed that will get them up and maybe go to someone else for me water it you know and open to hope which is a wonderful organization and i say that from my heart because you're in it for the same reason i'm in this and that's just to help people and i have still a lot of my patients to open to hope dot com because that's where you can get a variety of resources to help that's the only thing that can help someone to get from miserable to happiness is knowing that they're not alone but besides that there ought to walls and avenues that you can go to that can get you to a nice i write and you wrote this thing and tell us about this thing why do you call this thing and how did i get there and i love that name i do his thing well living designing is living life to levels above passion be passionate about something you know if your passion about flowers that's wonderful your passion about being on a show like this that's wonderful but you need to catch the zing field losing feel life this is what you have right now ok i want to know how long did it take you to feel dizzying after a saying anyone watching that needs to grieve the way i did but i went through a very deep level of grief which i believe now took me to a very high level of joy well this is the good part of what i'm hearing is that although you were in a deep level of grief for many many years and what can see here out there they can see they give a call we have you know i have three locations for psychotherapy fourteen therapists work for me from psychologist a missile show workers mental health counselors we're there to help i mean no matter what you know we work with insurance you know and everything else but the point a whole thing is if someone is feeling down they don't have to be and that was the point of me being it today is to let someone out there know that you don't have to be not doctor spot there is hell and you can get the i never thought i would have a story of job if we had more time i mean there's so much more to my life than sometimes i have but there's a lot to it and there's a lot a lot of things to do in your life to bring joy to you and one of them is and i'm a big believe in this seek out a professional counselor however i believe in very much in license counselors you know took a lot of years to go to school to get this information and now to sit across from someone who has experience a loss like that on top of that it means a lot because a lot of people out there that  licensed and people are very vulnerable if that elusive one and you're willing to listen to anything anyone hoping that they'll take you to a better place and sometimes i see they come to my office and they say they spent so much money on different things and help and you know so many different ways of using it and it didn't and here it's a good thing so i think the nice thing is everything if you go to someone you don't feel comfortable go to somebody else yes i love what you said on one of your shows i was watching one of the shows and you said that you went for counseling when you lost scott and you went once yes and that happened to me too yeah i walked out crying and feeling worse i didn't when i got there so there are with the internet you can go to open to help and we do have forums and that kind of thing and you can also go to a back association of death spiritual tip of the day for me is one of my other phrases when you choose to change your thoughts you begin to change your life i like that that is so true now that what we focus on gross absolutely absolutely  so what are some more things i need to know what if i'm sitting here i'm listening to you and i'm thinking ok i'm still in bed i'm what was the st thing that got you out well one of the things that actually got me going was i woke up one day and i was on my guard on my knees i looked up to god and i said god of the universe a very big believe in god but not at that point ok and i got on my knees and said god i need change and i need to feel because i couldn't feel and i needed change because i knew i was stuck and i couldn't get going and you spoke about on your show many times about how men don't like to show their feelings and you know and i was very sensitive guy but i realized then that i never really did touch into the feelings and michael got me to see all the time her father they lost their father at a young age to do a car accident do some other things and so so when you see all this stuff out there you know the biggest process i think that we need to learn is grieving  grieving process isn't only for a loss of a child it's for a parent it could be a loss of a job a relationship so so many ways to grieve and i think what our job here is in our new talk show and as professionals is to help people to grieve and i don't believe there's any order in grieving i believe you could be crying one day when they could be you know there's no order to it all right well ronnie they were on much for  to chris and john and and now we're going to hear from kate mills took a lot of the show and we hope that you will visit us at open to help dot com and you'll do our forum thing you visit us on facebook because we want you to know that you're not alone out there there are many many people that are there to support