goldstone report has been an extremely extremely useful event it's a watershed in the movement in the b d s movement because everything we've been saying since we started the boycott movement has been vindicated has been proven to be correct what richard goldstone told the world is what we have been saying all along israel is committing grave war crimes and crimes against humanity with  this impunity in committing indiscriminate this proportionate violence has to come to an end exactly therefore b d s i mean that's what he could not say i mean you read the goldstone report and it jumps out at you what do you want to do there's nothing left to do except isolate israel south africa was isolated it's just the most natural conclusion that any reasonable observer who reads the gold standard port can reach after reading it and so he has helped went to gaza and he wrote this much in our heads in different places he said i couldn't believe israel would do such things like indiscriminately shell you and shelter with white phosphorous bombs burning little children and women and he just he couldn't believe they would do this of course we do we've been living it for sixty years but for goldstone to say it he broke through the mainstream barriers against our information he reached very very mainstream of course this whole episode of projecting his report and the u s congress is meeting to condemn goldstone it's adding legitimacy to what we are saying it's adding legitimacy if they can't live with such a mild and it's a even that drop in a bucket made him reach the conclusion that israel has to try those war criminals or the world should take israel to trial that is the key so i think it's extremely important for the b d s movement since the deal then vest but it's something big but it's the symbolism this is the first western government to divest from an israeli company that's a sanction the second was spain the spanish government kicked and israeli team out of a competition because major role in that big new ground as to your second question how can activists in this country help it's very big there are so many things to do and this is the belly of the beast i mean this is it we either make it or break it in the u s all our successes in britain and norway and spain are minor compared to the potential in this country it is here and will lose or when it's but for legitimacy of its apartheid system and its occupation it's been winning so far and it feels that it might lose but it's not happening yet in the u s but of course we see a lot of potential why not just money i mean money is extremely important israel gets billions it's forgive the three billion from the government tax exempt donations from country like israel which is strong economically that's a lot of money and it's not just direct money it's israeli products selling in the u s israeli companies that are taking over certain industries in the u s where they are not fairly competing really i mean they're taking work with his or her institution for divestment motion at the university at the union at the church at the school and so on social organization synagogue and so on and so forth and many of these things are happening but very slowly  there's a co op in brooklyn completely jewish caught up by the way some jewish activists decided that they want to ban all settlement products from that co op and it was a big huge controversy in brooklyn zionists extremes and it's had a lot of difficulty really you know convincing the majority they did convince the majority not to boycott israeli settlement products but it took a long struggle even in brooklyn it took a long struggle for them to win that war and it's not over yet the jewish activists who want to ban those products are still at it they said ok we lost this year we put it to vote in two years it has empowered them that they find with b d s they find tools that they can use very effectively to end israel oppression it might take some time in the us it will take time because the lobby and the resistance are amazingly huge they're very big but it's happening and the most important thing that i started with and i'll end with they have not invented the weapon yet to stop th really it's just a matter of convincing more people and you can pass it if it took twenty thirty years with south africa it's taking much less with it so some unions are already debating divesting some universities hampshire college in the us was the first university yes movement work with this huge global network and how does it sustain itself in terms of management offices and so on and so forth the b d s movement until two months ago was completely volunteer based totally voluntary but we're all volunteers and the movement just two months ago we employed two employees one in brussels and one of them and that's it we don't have offices we don't talk we don't have money we don't spend money we just have very very very of many organizations so when we plan an activity all the organizations chippin they sustain the movement we have leadership of the b d s movement called the b d s national committee the b and c we have a huge global network but it's a very loose network a very diverse network it's not a political party you don't have to agree on everything but you have to agree with the b d s call the main principles and they want to come to tactics you decide your own tactics that suit your context the most important rule or principle about the b d s movement is that it's context sensitive this is the number one principle it's context sensitive what we do in britain we don't do in the u s we don't expect to do in the u we don't expect to do it in germany so in britain we ask for a complete total boycott against every israeli product is really a institution and so on that we can do in britain we cannot do this in the u s we to go with much lower demand at the beginning but that's up to the u s activists to decide what they can or cannot do they know best we don't know and we don't know how best to do b d s in spain the us or canada you guys know best you know  s movement by joining one of the actions and we never dictate actions we never dictate tactics it's up to the activists on the ground to decide that's the key so we maintain a global network that all agree on the principles of the b d s movement all agree on the b d s call and some of them don't even agree on the b d s called fully but they agree on doing b d s and we maintain a network of coordination and information and as i said mutual inspiration ok the question was about none violence and violence that israel's supporters and apologists always accuse the palestinians of using violence to resist occupation and so on but the b d s movement is a nonviolent movement so how does that work out with them do we bring this point out and so should be the last to talk about violence and nonviolence it is the most violent entity that exists in this entire region so it's the last to talk about violence we don't take lectures from israel or its supporters about violence or nonviolence we also don't think lectures from teach us about nonviolence europeans really whether they're in america or europe but having put that aside in general we believe that people under occupation international law have a right to resist by any means including violent means that's a right that does not give us the right to resist indiscriminately so yes international law allows us to resist violently and then violently but it does not allow us to resist indiscriminately that is not period they don't want us to resist they want us to surrender as i said so yes we do present the issue that this is a nonviolent resistance but we don't over do it because we're not in a defensive position we don't have to answer to anyone accusing us whether we're doing actually one person asked me that question specifically he said ok ending the occupation is ok but you're asking for equality in israel so you want to destroy israel i said ok let me reconstruct what you just said you're saying equality means the destruction of israel that means israel is based its main foundation is inequality if you take that away it collapses is that a state you want to maintain a state that  that's based on total inequality we're not calling for destroying anyone we're talking about transforming a system that is racist by definition into an egalitarian democratic system if you call that destruction go ahead but it will not destroying anyone so we answer that  have the problems of the other but they're just as bad but you smoke much more of them because you think they're healthy so bush is not better than bush so there's going to be much worse also apac life is not better than a pack it's much worse in my opinion j street is smarter more sophisticated more modern i mean is really a dinosaur really stuck in a nineteenth century kind of hit them with a stick and very bullying and very intimidating it works very well for a while i mean bit a very efficient same but they present them in much more sexy modern ways so they say we love israel or we love peace they never defined what ok loving israel that's clear when they stand what that is but what does loving peace mean i mean in turn quality we dictate the order and you just follow the order and just be quiet we want silence that is peace we don't that's the peace of the grave i call it we don't want that peace so j street wants peace what kind of peace they were debating this very question what are the best targets for b d s in the u s and they're still debating because the u s is so huge and so consequential for the movement you can't take this decision lightly so there was an anti campaign for a long while i'm personally not very impressed with the caterpillar campaign unless it changes drastically because you don't buy caterpillar every day it's not something that people can boycott easily motorola campaign on the other hand is very effective because everyone can buy a motorola so motorola is a much better target in my opinion so it's what class of targets we're talking about that's still being very debated academic and cultural boycott are of course extremely important in the u s so institutional and  just for the record to explain academic and cultural boycott target israeli institutions rather than individuals we don't target israeli academics or israeli artists we target israeli academic and cultural institutions for their complicity because they're very complicit in maintaining the occupation and apartheid system so that's a very important target in the u s one example was the most famous israeli dance company when they came to tour the united states right after gaza i mean the audacity of it right after the massacre in gaza they came to dance in the u s and this wasn't a coincidence it was very deliberate that israeli foreign ministry pays a lot of money and has a lot of influence on poets musicians dancers and so on they send them out in droves after israel committed any crime to whitewash israel cries divesting as i said from companies that are profiting from israel's oppression of the palestinians or  to get by with the messages i carry when i go on my tours i don't get harassed any more than the average i get harassed as everyone else but i don't i have not been imprisoned yet i don't know this really farfetched second because i'm speaking in many many places we now have a network of activists i think they understand that arresting someone like me will not be taken lightly by the stab us in the back and calling the world to boycott us and so on and so forth the president of that if university set a new precedent because he never comes out publicly speaking about a student he issued a communique and went out publicly to the media he said basically i'm paraphrasing i cannot expel him because there are no by laws that allow me to i mean i wish i could in a way he was between the lines he was saying he's doing some very nasty things and i wish i could but i can't the only reason why he did not expel me and i'm saying it publicly and you know i've written that is because he is so scared of the reaction abroad but having said that the current israeli government is the most stupid of all t as if he were some of the head of senegal or something not the united states of america really extremely condescending very humiliating so they're very good for us but because they're stupid they might commit things that are very irrational even to their interest writers in britain and others drafted the statement of protest and jane fonda signed it danny glover signed it and many many others big names that was the first time we reach hollywood finally of course jane seriously even danny glover who is much more progressive than her on palestine but she did sign and she did not withdraw our signature but she lost all the funding for her charity complete i mean within twenty four hours she was vilified she was intimidated and she was t  so she had to apologize profusely for signing the but she never with troops that in any way we got the media to cover the protest much more than the film  hope it shows that how internationals can really support absolutely but it's very important to put it in parallel that it's not enough to help us build institutions because israel destroys them much faster than we built them it's very