annoyed and i'm your guest host for today i am extremely honored to sit here with my guests he is a twenty five time new york city marathon finisher and achilles athlete and inspiration and my friend alan kathman thank you for having me today welcome to the show alan i'm thrilled to be here so alan you have an incredibly inspiring story and for those who are not familiar with it tell us who are and how you came to be here i'm a runner who started it in the spring of one thousand nine hundred and one my wife was pregnant with our st child i took up running eighteen months later i ran my st new york city marathon and was completely smit by iran every year and st as an entrance then as an achilles guide and in june of two thousand and seventeen i was diagnosed with stage four met a static melanoma it was quite unexpected i was running i came home shortness of breath i couldn't walk next thing i knew i was in the hospital with a diagnosis of five brain tumors and one of my lungs and the st thing i asked men there are surgeon after being advised that i was going to have to go through a pair of brain operable the other three weren't so to go after the st two men prolong hospital stay between days but the st thing i asked when you're a surgeon was well i run again and he looked at me and he smiled and he said i have a feeling you will i had resolved to run that fall but it was unrealistic as an achilles guide this was two thousand and seventeen so i missed the two thousand and seventeen new york city marathon but i trained for as an achilles athlete to do my number it's one number twenty five my t york city marathon as an achilles athlete in november of two thousand and eighteen it was one of the greatest days of my life and i've been trying to get back into running lives fast walking trying to become a runner again and doing well in the warm weather and just feeling good i'm sore today because i ran this morning and it's a good sore it's a good soreness that a runner gets from running that's i know you do not and i'm feeling great that's still going through my cancer treatment and i'm still a patient i go through many therapy every other tuesday but my doctors are happy i mean spy ring people the best way that i can by getting out and being active and i'm just very very happy to be alive and kicking it's an incredibly inspiring story i was lucky to have the opportunity to work with you for my documentary series we did a video together for those who are not familiar i document research is called just another runner and it's about runners with inspiring or interesting stories and you were graci volunteering to be one of the st athletes profiled in my series and never forget the energy and the positivity the affirmation on your face when you are coming into the finish line in central park at last year's math on it was one of the most inspiring mind blowing things i had ever when it was it was the toughest marathon of my life i was in a great deal of pain that would been out there for over ten hours but it was the proverbial lemon that was handed to me that i made into lemonade and somehow i felt that i was going to be sick dealing with this thing that it was my mission to inspire others and what better way to do it than to do the new york city marathon kelly is a wonderful organization they were terrific and supportive in my guides were terrific and you were revenue met me  central park south in the dark and i just felt that i needed to share my story if i was going to do anything positive with this it would be to get out there and help other people regardless of the realists so wonderful and this is not your  experience with achilles international you've actually been running with achilles for many years as a guide so tell me about what that experience was like you know i'm sure you have so many amazing inspiring stories you were telling me a lot of stories just earlier today as a guide and how you were able to transition from a guide to an athlete and what that was like and and what it's like to be on the other side but my st thing marathons were as an entrance and i would see the achilles athletes and their guides along the racecourse and wow this is amazing what a great way to do the race and help somebody else so honestly the st year i didn't get in as an entrance and i'm going to be and this is my time to step up as an guide and i made the mistake the st year of overestimating my finish time and i was paired with the blind runner from thailand who was younger and much faster and i lost him in greenpoint brooklyn never saw them again the following year i was more realistic and a finish time and i was paired with a runner one runner from achilles japan and after that it was like this is what i want to do running with an athlete with a disability and finishing with that athlete is one of the greatest things you can ever imagine the fulfillment the joy on their face the satisfaction everybody gets running really hooked me in to be could be being an athlete once in a while i'm into being a guide and i resolved after my own was diagnosed that ok i will now take my experience as a guide and use it as being as being an achilles not a fleet and that was it an achilles was wonderful the moment i contacted them they said yes we would love to have you as an athlete and they were supportive and suddenly the poetry of all this was i had gone from being the guy to being the guy did and it changed me i met one race really just look at the world in a different way to be at having everybody cheer for me along the course you've got millions of people that during the during the marathon from brooklyn all the way to central park and everybody was just screaming and cheering and of course had my name on my shirt and really the early days of being a marathon runner transitioning into being an achilles guide transitioning into being an achilles athlete being guided was something very special in my life and has gone a long way in helping me and my own self healing as a cancer patient let's take a step back for a moment and go back to the very beginning of when you had started running this little background into your career and when it was that you decided for the st time that you were going to run the n words like to be a runner that spring my wife was expecting and the elevator in our building wasn't working i went up four flights of steps and i couldn't breathe i said well i really need to get into shape since may st one thousand nine hundred and one was the day i became a runner and after that it's just this is pretty internet so any resources i needed i would go to barnes and noble in the neighborhood and look through the books i subscribe to runner's world the network was the local runners in flushing road was sick at the time and i saw them in for their avenue and that was inspiring too and all these other achilles people and i wondered what is it to be an achilles an athlete or a killer he said people in wheelchairs people on crutches people being led on to others who couldn't see so the entire experience of being a runner and being fit and feeling good and looking at the world differently really changed it that was life changing for me i lost forty pounds it was incredible and then i was it would go up to four flights of steps on the elevator didn't work yeah it's really incredible that you fell into the running bug when you were just becoming a new dad it's incredible because i hear so many stories  of new dads thinking of the year that they're becoming and that is the last year they have to run this great marathon goal that they've always had you know that they've already been runners and never that they are going to get into something new like that and it's a great commitment and it's really a testament to your sheer passion and your dedication for it and that you've been able to continue it for as many years afterward as you have so fast forwarding to this previous marathon  just completed which was an amazing comeback story as you said what was the training like for that how long did it take it finish that math and what was the training like the training my traditional training would have been to dart six months a twenty mile runs  obviously it takes a lot longer to walk twenty miles than it does to run in training but i resolved to maintain the mileage counts the way i would have done when i was well it's like me longer so i did serve a long twenty mile walk which would take six hours of course boldly predicting oh i've got an eight hour marathon if i can do twenty and which i was completely wrong about but the training was pretty much the same getting up early before the sun came up when we had the babies and you many years ago i rhythm change that i was able to get up early go to sleep at nine wake up at four hundred and thirty dollars and run i got up at four hundred and thirty dollars to walk and i would walk and walk and walk but the training was the same it was this emotional connection i was able to make between the here and now being sick and when i was healthy doing it i'd go to the local vitamin shop and get all the energy bars and booze i prepare the same way except emotionally saying well this is not a five hour race it's not a four hour race it's going to an eight hour race which actually turned ten plus mile which in its own way was very satisfying because the crossing the finish line it was to me it wasn't about the time or the speed of course it was just getting into the park and of course number twenty five was a was a was a big thing for me and i did not want i got to mile twenty three and i had a complete meltdown back spasms i had a lay down and i thought i was going to pass out a port a potty and my two guides who were friends and neighbors and very terrific terrific souls i didn't want them to be angry with me then we got to the grandstand yelling and screaming and carrying on it was a defining moment for me because i realized that i can endure that pain i can endure my cancer and all the other challenges you know it's something that i don't think is said often enough busy i recently ran a personal best a marathon in under three hours i had fifty nine and that was it was very hard for me and i train very hard for it but even i think that being out there for ten hours in the cold in the dark and just being on your feet for so long and after the adrenaline wears off that's so much more challenging then running a sub three or running a fast marathon time and i think that a lot of people can't say that it was easy and it was it was difficult but there was no way i was not going to get the d m f done janish i was going to complete it and show the world i'm here i'm in my doctors were thrilled i didn't want to shame myself but like twenty five came and went he's just going to try and get it right there when we're doing the just another runner video i remember you saying that was the most painful experience of your entire life was and you've had some pretty painful experiences recently i think you compared to lung biopsy yes when i was sick i endured a long biopsy without being put out for it it was like medieval torture and of course i had back to back brain surgeries i had eleven hours worth of surgeries and waking up from that was brutal this was a the biggest moving party in the world that's what i call the marathon fifty three thousand runners and millions of people and the whole lead up is terrific and the expo and on a jab it's in seeing people from out of town people from other countries wearing their flags i was so happy to be part of it i was just so happy to be part and life affirming i always say the new york city marathon is the most life affirming experience you can imagine and the league originally which also opened up the question i have to wha do i do next right twenty six but we did the new york city half marathon you know right from the races really in march and i did a small local races and yesterday i was in connecticut doing a race and account pastor so there's always the challenges and now the challenge is to start running a little more and walking less taking my walking poles or white cane up and holding them parallel to the ground and actually picking it up and napping and that's the thing i may never regain my balance completely in the brain surger permanently but if i can run with a cane at my side or even fast walk that is fine with me yeah it's extraordinarily impressive it's it's amazing and it's so it's such an honor and it's so much fun whenever we can do a run to race together like a new york city half knowing that somewhere out there alan is that he's had three shapes and and it was so cool the experience that you had this is jumping ahead a little bit but but it was so cool the experience that you had you know you mention that they eventually did the math on the close down the streets the open up the streets the traffic at a certain point but you have very unique experience of the new york city half which has a very fun course going over the manhattan bridge and then on the f d r drive and tell us a little bit about that experience but the marathon ambulatory runners with disabilities get an early start so it affectively people are running with you the entire race for the new york city half marathon i was in the final wave to start the race that was already in the back to begin with so by the time we exited prospect park i was already by myself with my guide flatbush avenue the same way and you know very well angry maybe i should have started earlier but we got to the manhattan bridge and realize we  only people on the bridge and a very kind photographer named larry sellon was there and took the most amazing apocalyptic photos of me and my guide phillip emerson on the bridge and from the angle he took it we were the only ones out there and there's a certain beauty of being by yourself now in the entire world is out there and you're on the bridge you got up the bridge got on to the f d r leg of the race and the cops were getting anxious and we need to open the roads up you guys get off early but there was that moment when philip and i looked at each other and thought oh my god we're like paralyzing traffic along the side there waiting for us to get off the highway and we smiled and ok we'll listen to the cops because we needed to they asked us to go if it's rd street we got up the th street exit and walk the rest of the race the kind of meandering through but that certain beauty of being by yourself in a unique opportunity probably once in a lifetime i mean how often are you on the f d r by yourself you have to drive how often you're on the manhattan bridge now by yourself never in the pictures larry took were just phenomenal and this angry as it was about starting in being in the back a ll the other stuff kind of disappears when you look at these photographs and i mean the conversation would like to have with the kill is and anybody else made the officials in new york road runners is it's very beneficial to start earlier and be in the race longer just like the marathon  way when you if you're going to take ten hours to finish which you absolutely should be able to do and one of the great things that you're going to is does is they keep the finish line up and so every last person comes and i would love people don't know is that crowds of people will come people who don't even know that that's when issues will come to celebrate those last people coming out in two thousand and eight it was a guide for a very nice woman from achilles japan and she was a stroke survivor and we started in the last wave at the back and being a visitor to new york for the st time she  wanted pizza so we stopped for pizza in greenpoint for forty five minutes an hour and i'm looking out the window and now i see traffic they've opened up the streets to traffic we're still in brooklyn and because of the danger of going to the bronx after dark the police would let us do the bronx leg of the marathon so we made up for it in harlem but we got into central park and two people dressed like pandas came dancing out of the woods and circled us and danced and it was magical they were like fairies like magical fairies dancing and i let my athlete and the other two japanese guys finish in front of me i took a giant step and i was the last person to cross the finish line is two thousand and eight but there were people there waiting and our bags are checked baggage was all lined up nicely at the finish line and there were volunteers waiting for us to come across and this was maybe twelve hours later wow but i was i will always remember that there were people waiting for us in central park at hassidic and i saw her yesterday too and we laugh and barbara we were like in the top ten not the bottom ten the top ten finish yours and it's it's astounding when you think about stuff like that that you did it and people read they're being very supportive that's so cool i want to talk a little bit about achilles queen now you have an achilles queen's you tube channel and you guys train every sunday in flushing meadow pa by the eunice yards on my favorite spots in the city and you go every every week or every other week with your with your camp water and use huey document the training runs with them and i was lucky to be able to attend one of these group runs when i was working on the just another honor video and it was just it was such a lovely and such a lovely group of athletes and guides together and tell me about that experience of that group and being a part of that group today are as an absolutely wonderful i was when i got sick and joined the kill is i became a member of the chapter in queens run by when the path they are the most loving caring group of people you can imagine guys and the other athletes is like a family we meet every every sunday in flushing meadows park and we work out and we do races together and because i am  video maker by trade i'll usually bring a small video camera to shoot may be half an hour's worth of video that i cut down into a two minute piece and then i post on the achilles cleans youtube channel and it's pretty much done document the fun we have the silliness the love and and the fact that guides get up on a sunday morning to be with us still amazes me yesterday we went to a race in connecticut and the guides were all up at four in the morning to meet up to go on the reins to run the connecticut just give you an idea but i love to document things either through pictures or videos there's a lot and they're fun to make and fun to watch and everybody will send me pictures of they taken that i kind of work into  slide show achilles clean really was the thing that saved me in the st months after being sick to be there and come on we're going to do it and there i was with my walking poles and the st workout are equally wonderful but i'm lucky to be in queens i'm a queens guy born in queens and to be there with the units fear just going to flushing meadows park on a sunday morning rain or shine is just a wonderful thing it's the ninety minutes of my we give or take that i forget all about my other woes being sick when i'm going to do about work and the future when i'm with the killers i'm in the moments yeah and we just celebrate life that's the best way to put it just like it's a celebration of each other of dedication of being born with the tickler challenge that you overcome it's fantastic absolute fantastic yes so i'm kind of curious you know in your fight against cancer what you're still busy you're still dealing  with you had this great sign on your on the back your share during the marathon cancer warrior and you are a cancer warrior and you you spoke about this before with me but i'd love to hear your thoughts again on the parallels between fighting cancer and running training for a marathon what that's like i got sick it was cancer and it was made a static cancer and i was told quite honestly by my oncologist you were going to be living with this for as long as you're to live with it so that me was being a warrior fighting to be you know when you're a warrior you're fighting whether you know you're going to win or not and that is me i don't know where i'll be in a year will marathon twenty six happen i will fight this for as long as i'm able to as long as i have strength and feel good and that's so good but that's what a warrior is to me so when i was putting my name on my achilles jersey and i'm a warrior i'm a thriver and i'm a warrior thriving meaning  doing a warrior because i'm constantly fighting it's not the st thing i think about when i wake up in the morning but once i've got the coffee go in and i'm caffeinated i'm out for another day of fighting and what advice would you give to someone who is facing a similar diagnosis who you know maybe isn't even a math on runner what is the key what's was the thing that you found that has helped you just keep going when i get out of bed in the morning i pull the blinds aside and look out the window and i think i think to by an apartment building an air conditioner going full out and yes i got cancer it gave me an appreciation for life i did not have prior to being diagnosed and that the other gift things i never thought about now were just even walking through central park coming here as looking  flowers in the trees it was extra special the simple pleasures of life and knowing you have been has been extra special to him and our friendship and our working relationship it's been great likewise i probably would not have met you and i would not be sitting here right now had i not been sick that's a gift and its own way well being able to hearing that from you makes me feel really really great and it's the women in heaven a yeah exactly and look i mean doing this documentary series that i've been working on and meeting you and having you be a part of it and and hearing your story and hearing you the way that you reacted when i told you about the name just another honor and how you felt about that for me it was almost like it was the ultimate endorsement that you felt so strongly about that the name for the series and for me i was just like wow like i feel like i'm really doing something meaningful with my skills and all this you know it's not for nothing i'm not just going to sit around trying to write some scripts for forever never i've found the thing that i can really that can be really gratifying that i like to do and that i you know it's just a wonderful experience things work out in wonderful ways if you look at them the correct way now filled with a whole new philosophies but that's really how he feels the same here before the medication i'm on was came out a clinical trial it would been six months for me so i'm doing him a new therapy feeling great marathon twenty six i'm preparing for it maybe i'll see us there this email right by i will definitely s there i hope to see you out there definitely and on that note thank you so much alan it's a pleasure as always i look forward to our next walk like white and maybe a little raw and i would like to thank well sanchez and the have neighborhood network for hosting us now so really wonderful wonderful getting to talk to you this is fun thank you my pleasure