has multiple passions throughout her career throughout her life that she has pursued and you know what she's very successful so i will introduce you to her but you know we do an exact situation where we take it down with three deep breaths are you how do you feel i know i feel great i want to welcome mother and her former advertising executive a painter i trailed blazer marshall go off there thank passion my first passion when i came out of school was painting and illustration but photography was overtaking illustration at that point so my job was at that my job to myself was get out get a job hopefully in an advertising agency if possible although i had been warned even in school and by people in the city that usually one in our student came into the city try to get a job in an art department they were usually offered a job as a secretary and told they can work their way into it ok but i didn't buy that i don't know why i don't know how i have the confidence at the time but i went for it and i had awful awful interviews that advertising agencies and really was advised at that point and some of them were very demeaning i mean they were really scary one at one advertising agency man wanted to hire me the creative director wanted to hire me and all the system started  and the senior what is a bullpen it's a place where all the systems when they followed up the art director know they got mats and they said that they couldn't hire me because the boys in the and wouldn't be able to swear magazine and that's where my career began so how did you how did you rise above the discrimination the the not so positive talk in the office how did you do it i think we did it almost with a sense of humor we had no choice i have often i often describe those days as it's just the way it was you know it is it is what it is i'm sure there was no expectation i can't even tell you that the word discrimination as far as sexual discrimination gender discrimination was in my vocabulary at that point certainly as far as the south and other discrimination yes but that i was being discriminated against really never entered my mind and even in the first two years that i worked i heard the comments i foresee nobody ever touch me but i just thought you just you had to just sort of smile and walk away  so you had extreme mental toughness i guess so i never thought of it that way i really just thought of it as getting along and going from one job parlaying it into another which always meant you know more position more money which was great and most is right off we always knew we were getting paid less women were getting pay less but we there was nothing you could say you couldn't women to have a voice and we had no voice basically so you said earlier that you graduated from college and you were painting you were a painter so share how you use your skills of painting or your thought process of painting to become successful in the advertising world back then i think the all the elements that come into painting are design you are basically as a zeiner and you can  page and know how to put it together and know i wasn't great at the beginning i learned i had mentors and they taught me they taught me how to do layouts they taught me how to do pages i learned how to put out a magazine how to do photo shoots and you took all of whatever that it had a talent is that also then extended to writing which surprised me and it was just there wasn't anything you ever thought about so that i started in magazines i started in book design continue through that into the late seventies when i was doing a lot of freelance work because none of us ever made enough money and so we free last i freelance book covers i freelanced big books for various companies and one day i was working for less for an agency and the client one of the clients said i'll give you my account if you'll create your own agency go to your own agency and i said ok so that sparked you to do create your own agency i could actually founded a small boutique i say agency and i had no idea what i was doing yeah but that's ok so you took years goes from painting you learned so press a variance mental toughness wouldn't take no for an answer unless it was a new opportunity no new opportunity is there was that your line of thinking my offer to any time there was a new opportunity i was open to it  have to you have to take you can't sit by and let things pass you by to me the more you put out the more you get back that's true and my my mother had told me early on when i first came to new york came a the phone calls you got to keep calling the agency you got to keep calling the magazines it's the only way you're going to get response and although i was shy and i hated to do it i did well in school so for motion girl i know that i was twenty one years old larry but you were twenty one years old with a lot of skills and determination determination i think is really the word rain and perseverance press a variance yeah so how did you go from ok so painting ever ties ing tell me about writing now because you have these two congratulations thank you so much and to you on your new book oh a bank this came about sort of by accident wait wait what thirty one days a memoir of seduction you know the title just grabs me you guys i have to get this one i don't have i have this one i love you today but i think i need to start with this right i would need to stop reading this when i go back so what gave you the impetus to write thirty one days  through the inside of writing that i had actually also seduced him but it came about because my career was sort of down it was the we were into the two thousands i had left the last agency i had worked with i was freelancing i had worked on a  shoot for a client and it was a freezing cold day in february and i said i'm taking a walk down to a store turning around and coming home when i walked into the store a song was playing and i will stop to listen to the song and i actually had a vision in my mind of seeing myself the first time that i met william thompson the man in this book and this was in austria in one thousand nine hundred sixty three i was there for the summer  and i ran out of the store i ran home by the time i had left the store i had not only the name of the book but i had the first page and the name eventual changed to thirty one days but the first page has went to i between my junior and senior year in college i went to europe with a friend arm herons just trusted us a lot of sco and one of my instructor said oh there's this painter i don't know if you know he was he was a german expressionist ok a school in salzburg and they had actually built a school for him and he invited everybody anybody could come to the school that he wanted to open people's eyes and it was mostly artists and students so i said all the sounds great will live with  family and this is what we did and the first day i met this man i had the aha moment of my life and i looked at him and i said i said self don't go near him stay away from him he was almost twice my age ok he was extremely seductive and i said just don't do it well it didn't quite work out that way and he was quite the person and he said to me at one point early on because obviously he reacted survey which i didn't quite understand we're all here for a month and we may never see each other again and i'm going back to london and you're going back to new york and who knows then in the sixty's and you just wrote about this in two thousand and four yes because i all of a sudden have this moment that came to me and i was able to write it i don't think i had been able i was never able to write anything like that i wrote marketing plans write i wrote proposals but i could never have written a book so what for this moment so what inspired you then i think it was the song of course was the song it was called summer wind it was nancy and it's a song of seduction which we analyze later i spoke to psychics i spoke to psychiatry's because here i am in my late sixty's writing a book about my twenty's i became twenty again i lost weight i became days yes briefly we were in contact for a couple of i'm nosy like that really and yeah i did see him again i didn't think i would and it was decision that i had to make and as a twenty year old i look back and i wonder how i made this forty years you're content or you think that there's a ceiling and by fifty i get it right you never felt there was a seal and well some people do i don't i don't feel it obviously now now now no and people know how old i am and i'm fifty something i don't think that there's a ceiling but you really say that there's no ceiling and know that they are and that in the forty's and fifty's the old the whole nine yards and my partner was another woman and i would walk into offices some people would like wow and i found that getting out of the back room was an art director i was able to sell i was able to interact with people and that really brings you into the world and it's a marvelous situation and i think that it really helped me as a person and it made me grow and it also i guess made me fearless of the fact that i could do it i have no problems we had crises all the how and why i think it really started about the time of mad man people were saying to me you live this you lived in that world write about it you wrote this book why don't you then write about it and i thought maybe so cue way back to the sixty's again it to the late late or sixty later and it was i i actually there is some autobiographical material in there in the difficulty of finding jobs i used a lot of my own experiences and also it was a time of tremendous volatility remember cultural change it was a new language there were singles bars it was don't trust anyone over thirty it was the pill and love the the city exploded and some of us and i particular particularly i am braced it i thought that this was marvelous i love during mini skirts you know people were wearing wild but a lot of the older people a lot of the men we encountered at that time were far more established well you know we're in our twenty's and we were fearless and some of the men from the suburbs and men who are married with families were like let out of a cage in this situation really they didn't act really so well many of them because they felt there was all this sudden freedom they came out of the eisenhower era in the fifty's out of restrictive conformity into just a new world at it just fell upon us i mean it was there all of a sudden you didn't see it really coming and suddenly we were living it so the relationship that she has in this book with another art director mattie samuels mattie meets rob actually hires her and she doesn't know he's married she doesn't know except that he's her boss and she says again it's another situation where she says i'm not going near this guy right and he pursues her at eventually they have a very passionate relationship so these two of very different books different styles of writing did you have any fears of writing this one own beliefs are in that book more so in this of this is definitely but this is a different moment in time writing this covers five years and i made maddie i think a little bit more savvy than i was course i'm writing it from an older viewpoint she's a little bit more goal oriented she is determined to get what she wants and she is determined to stay in a relationship with somebody who she knows essentially is not good for her and there are moments in the book and you have to remember when you read this book that it's the time which is the late sixty's which is tremendous fall of tremendous volatility and also tremendous passion of a twenty four twenty five year old woman and you have to sort of go away from your adult life and say this is the way it was and this is why she did what she did without this book and the title itself gives you a hint because it's i love but i'm going to ask what's next for you here in part two or three a couple of people have asked me about that right now probably is not on the horizon i'm actually writing a book about past lives about two people who m and these people are kids they're their thirty's and forty's and what is in england in one is in new york for some reason london and new york resonate with me and throughout their relationship they find that strange things are happening and eventually they will discover that they have lived and loved during different periods of time through five thousand years we have found you know it's really about past lives it really it's about it's really about what happens to them and why they pursue trying to find out what strange things are happening they have too much knowledge or he has too much knowledge about the past and he wants to find out why things are happening to him and the ultimate is that they have gone back they have known each other for five thousand years oh my god and it's really saying that love is a mortal yes that's really the message of the book love is title but when is that one due to finish if you took the took four years to write this one i took three and a half and then four on that but they overlap ok and these this was about a year and a half so far and i figure i've got about another six months on  you're a trailblazer painter well trailblazers going to last but painter author and a trailblazer what advice do you have for people that are trying to find their passion you have any because you have multiple passions and it seems as though you went after each one so what advice do you have i think it's just never give up i think it's yourself out there don't don't let the world has you by go out and me i don't want to say meet your destiny but go out and meet things that come to you and make decisions to act on the right i mean the core thing in thirty one days was it was i was a twenty year old girl facing an almost forty year old man who wanted to have a relationship with me and how i navigated it i had a belief system and i think we have to have is especially in these days you have to have a belief system it has to be a belief in yourself that you can transcend those ceilings that you talk about that because i'm fifty oh it's over knows i'm at sixty five i'm going to retire somebody saw and said to me are you going to retire and i said i don't think i know what that is you know i have to agree with you because i always say to people because we know some friends that have retired and they say oh i'm retired  have to work and i said yeah but you know what i'm never going to retire because i love what i do know is right you have to go did they not i retire is when my higher power which is god takes away my voice and takes away my physical ability to communicate with people and move around and work out in you know try to put a smile on somebody else's right so then that's when i retire but at that point probably a vegetable in near death right will don't even say that i want i want but i'm saying that return it is is is not even in my in my vocabulary and i love what i do and it seems like you do as well i do i do and i've also gone back to painting which i had problems with and this book regenerated that as well so wait till the book which book this one the thirty one day it was all the energy i had was able to put back into not only writing but painting so that they're interconnected you see i for you yeah i think for most people i think most creative people have more than one talent i really believe that either you paint and you write or you music i think it's a multiple scenario there are the more people i've spoken to the more that seems to fit in do you think that folks need to allow time because we moved so fast today we moved so fast and we're always carrying around some digital something ok electronic something i think and then tell me if you agree i think for one to find their passion they need to just go away and be by themselves and do some reflection but what do you agree i totally agree i very much a lot of are i like being by myself need time to sort of cope with ourselves especially in this society today for women do you have a specific message for women on how they should succeed how they should go about defining success well i think we decided to find it buyer in our own terms i think what's happening today and when i was finishing up i love you today all of the stuff fox started breaking out the and kelly yeah the roger ailes and all of that and i i wrote actually a letter to the new york times about five women who were interviewed in the new york times about their situations and their their lives at advertising agencies and i was shocked to find out that they were going through essentially the same thing i had gone through in the similes yes it was still gender discrimination there was still sexism and i so i was i felt very honored by that but it was a statement that i felt i had to make that right we're still going through the same nonsense and at some point men have to learn we don't want to take the testosterone out  men but we want them to respect who we are exactly and we will and we are equal to them if not more than equal if they are that only some of the year we we do things that they can't anyway but and that's that's the great thing now where can we find these books there at amazon obviously and barnes and noble and i'm actually doing a reading at the livingston barnes and noble next saturday the tenth of june ok so they've invited me all the refuse and they invited me trailblazer you know what we should all aspire to be like you and and thank you for sharing your story and i pleasure until next time when i have an assignment for you guys do some refle reflecting that by yourself that means alone cup but see coffee water preferably sit down and think about what you really want to do in life ok i figure out what your