hi my name's carol ricard also known as america's wellness and basset er and welcome to the well you show thank you so much for joining us i want to introduce my co hosts we have enjoyed torturing buck the pain detective and tell people where they can find you and muscles in balance on facebook instagram and you tube you tube too yeah and then we have julie maddox who i call the wellness coach and you can find her so secretive you know yes and so is this your first time tuning in that well you know it's really our mission the simple give you the tools to live well today and i spent twenty five years working in hospitals teaching people the things we've covered in shows and really the goal is if i can help you stay out of the hospital and so these ladies don't usually know what we're going to talk about and i didn't tell them about this episode and i'm going to i want to capture what comes to your mind what that's really interesting because i've heard some people when i've done this over the years lined you know like really simple you know kinds of a boundary is kind of like the lines  locks on you the worst or your cars your houses no nothing how would you feel because it depends on where i'm living let's say you're in the middle of the city i would not feel safe having worked with women and women's programs this was a really critical piece for all of us because it really is the one thing that we can do personally in a borders to feel safe and the other thing is is it imagine if we had no lines on the roads you know where there was no speed limits and so i guess is that is the other word just a concept that sometimes comes i mean is limits and boundaries sometimes a limit yeah that's right because i know in some countries you know it stares and end and the way that i like to think of this is is that you know just like if we couldn't you know lock our doors and you know that the other piece it comes with having no limits or no speed limits or no lines on the road is the other thing that usually comes up it's chaos you know it leads to chaos and and i know that right now i've kind of been talking about physical boundaries but you guys very interesting where your brains went because i mean you went to physical space because you talked about it you know person space and you actually winter i think more mind you know like interpersonal kind of more and and here's the really interesting thing about it not having boundaries interpersonally it leaves people feeling really unsafe and it leaves them feeling really like their lives are chaos and i've seen it i've see people now just to throw this out there to oh where do you think you kind of learn boundaries parents you know so we could put parents any other places  school but yeah it's definitely schools if you think about the structure right yeah you got to be there it starts on tired it does this you've got this you've got homework yeah and and i would i would say for some people i know for me i started working when i was fourteen yeah and guess what it was for another one people have kind of come up with the fourth kind of just talking back to this you know and i said what made what do you think of when you hear the word boundaries they said rules you know that was another thing there and ensure my point in this is that i don't kind of preaching to the choir here but  wellness for our health and particularly for our mental and emotional health and what i've learned is that sometimes people have a really tough time with saying no and say no and and and we get what you guys are cheap in a little bit because we did a whole we did a whole show right now saying radio and and often times the person it struggles with these boundaries is the same person because i worked in programs where we had a lot of different people coming together and i think this applies also to work settings because let's face it nobody you all but i've definitely had work setting where people were so annoying like this just like didn't respect boundaries constantly coming in your office war can be anybody come to mind like that or clients yeah thinking yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because since i work myself but years ago i worked for a dentist and and that was a problem here yeah that was a different well and it's interesting though too because well and it just occurred to me you know as we're talking the the time that we're talking here that boundaries and being able to say you know when you think about all the meat to movement you know that really is about kind of bringing attention to the fact that boundaries were violated and around griese were acknowledged and you know and that's to where it becomes a matter then of feeling safe and drawing your life in the chaos when we don't have those boundaries recognizing right and i have to because i work for myself and i you know take care  yeah and so you know i kind of wanted to discuss boundaries ways that we could set limits how people can set limits and even get some you know things that you have done to kind of set some limits because i think sometimes when you're somebody who doesn't get the chance to learn boundaries you know because here's the other thing about this if you have honestly if you have none izzy's in your life when you're growing up like in school when you actually the other word i want to put up here is trauma and that could be anything along anything but what i've also experienced over twenty five years is working with men and women because it's not just women i mean it's a need to movement but guess what i have met many a med you know that were abused by women by men  but this trauma shatters all sense of boundaries because when you had boundaries violated guess what or you don't have anybody there teaching you to say and to do this and then it ends up kind of you learned the hard way and my thinking was i want to do this show in case there's anybody you know that's watching us that that's the position they find themselves in they had experience you know a boss you know who violated boundaries or you know even just never grew up with anybody being there i think about kids in foster care and anybody that happened you know just have really challenging childhood growing up there were people around and nurture them and to teach them these things and so you know a lot of times not so there are some really interesting that i discovered though and i discovered it because a situation so here's i got to tell you i came up with this exercise we're about to do i had patients come together and i had one patient who was leaving and it was her last day we had this like little graduation ceremony and at the end of the day this other patient came up to her and just went and gave her a big old hug goodbye and i knew that it was very uncomfortable for the person she was holding in fact i knew that she really didn't want anybody to like touch or or even get that want you to stand up oh you still want me i want to stand up right here just ended up i want you to stand up don't we should like in the process and i think we're good ok so here's the exercise with me standing here how does it feel you know i literally have had patients who if i'm going use my hand all right if if this is them that i am able to kind of get this  that is actually not such a healthy sign because it's that they don't have them boundaries they don't have that space to feel protected you know that they actually don't feel kind of defensive when quite nicely they should write well you know and and then i've had people who because so the rule is and this is what i try to practice in even even when i'm out grocery shopping all right so let me ask you  stiffing i've had people that when i stood this far away from you in jail they said well i guess that's ok you know and when i took a further step back it actually even felt better and so in  enough now because i was still think why are you talking about a stranger that's the other thing i want to have to get you to think about who it is right and what i used to say to my patients is ok you know me right you know me you know i'm a safe person what if you didn't know me how would that change and and here's why this is so important too because for anybody watching this the next step so celeste come back to i had that person who would you know i'd step towards them and if i had taken one more step towards you what would you have done backed up ok i know i would hope when you say that i really hope when you say that for sure because here's the thing that happened guess what that we have to use words to create feeling our base and the place it happens the most the store right and i think about this well and then i think about i think about germs you know yeah right away i go to there's several thing is you know is your breath smell how do i do you have a cold yes i mean you think it was just again to me it comes back to safety yeah safety of your health right so what's really interesting is when i've done this and it's been a guy because when i've said you know it is different women would say to me or you were a guy carol you know that's far enough right and then i've had men who've kind of it's been a man and say well what if i was a man and he didn't know me and you know to kind of well and that though doesn't tell me that i'm too close right and my point about this is we have to the best place to start making sure that we have boundaries is in the grocery store so i don't know if you haven't been there where you have that person that's behind you you know that is just kind of like like you're here and there they're like kind of like comes right up on you so i want to share my secrets for that because there's a few so when i take one of those little  you know like in those kinds of settings and that's why i don't like to go to like big crowds because i really don't like to be that yeah i am to people so i wonder i don't understand people there that like you know the concerts get back you know back or and and so i want to give you guys the words and give you the words yeah see if you ever found yourself in this real situation and i know you'd say so here's here's what i say i say excuse me i'm feeling a little claustrophobic would you mind stepping back a step please and my point with that is everybody knows with claustrophobia yeah and there's no shame no healt it has to how you feel about hurley and i'm sorry so you're ok yeah but here's the thing i've also found is that sometimes people that don't can't you know like they're they have no safety zone they have no personal space so are also the people that actually get very well taken advantage of like are too nice because they can't sit if you can't set a boundary if you don't have a boundary around you physically then emotionally probably don't have a boundary around you very much either which is part of what you know women i've worked with who could be in relationships and men too it was an unhealthy relationship but that was kind of you you came to know how and i was thinking about what we can do for show work and i was like who have i i miss doing this exercise w not really if they come to terms with my comfort is more by myself what you would you know just step back or would you say something to me yes and that's what i was hoping you all would do because honestly that's what ninety nine percent of people do and i want you to realize that that doesn't communicate right now what about the situation it just says you know step back and i've seen it where people are step closer and then you move back at it i mean it's like a day and see you know and the other thing is it affects  we're talking about who it is you know and i even say when i work at a hospital i've done a training for residents i've always tried to explain to residents and doctors do not touch anybody without telling them for it and to be cognizant of that and saying is it ok if you know i get a little closer because you don't know anybody is history and also back in the day when i was just doing fitness sounds what i want to you know for ethics you needed to say i'm going to touch your back now right get well and that's partly because you kind of got that training i mean doctors to me was what i worry about in a hospital because i teach the crisis intervention is it going to put your hands on somebody they're going to hit the true story guy was was sleep in and somebody came in at night to take his blood pressure which of course nurses and you sleep overnight condition you have to take blood pressures but they didn't wake him up and so what they did is they went to go take his blood pressure he woke up and he started swinging yeah and i say listen do not do that because you get into space this personal space  good a good topic that i don't kind of our show today and again i start off with space because if you can practice with space it's just much easier than it is you know other way  it comes back to though and i i also would talk about this a little bit so i want to talk about even though we've done a whole oh it is really about being too nice and saying no  because here's the whole point of too nice and this is what i mean to people by tonight being nice shouldn't cost you yeah makes sense yeah you know so you could be nice to your clients and then they cross the line you know and but it shouldn't cost you you know in in time or anything and and and actually when i first met you i think you were this yeah you were too nice yeah and you people would like just i would get mad way people would kind of try to take advantage of yeah i do and you know now i can look back and say why did i do that because guess what part of what we talked about to growing up is it that might favors sometimes people can be too nice if you say you know or care i have a favor to ask if you need me to pick some up you know it's on my way yes but if it's to move and i'm giving up something else in order you know and again you do is remember a couple those phrases that we talked about in the saying no like really symbols which ones do you guys use it was say i don't know what it's like it's not a good time for me yeah the thing it's a little different i don't know do they feel different to you this one and this one or this one in this one if i said them to you if i said