with the drumbeat coming up again now yes you know just as something we want to talk a little about your home background also you know because you you were an architect and you were in bassett or in washington yes y eight and iraq and is very much in the news now and so we're very pleased that you've been able to find time to be with us and we welcome you to the program ambassador and to the manhattan network thanks we want this to be a chance for you to be able to share with us and for the cable television audience your perception of events that are there we get a great deal in our media by our representatives and so what we want this to be an opportunity to sort of in a sense get your perception of it in the your colleague's perception of the of the geopolitical and reality that that you the way you see it but i wonder we have some time i want to review the share a little of your own background you currently ambassador at the u n but i know you have an architectural training in there dr actual background you were ambassador me to share a own background please while my back i was being as you mentioned an architect by profession i majored in architecture on top of planning and baghdad university motivations were just starting to warm up with washington and i was picked by the president to come to the united states and to represent iraq and time when i came to washington  agencies and people in washington were very pleased to see that iraq is coming as a factor and trying to to reshape the american policy in the middle east  of iraq in terms of at that time when iran and iraq were at loggerheads and so forth but that iraq was seen as a run was seen as a great buy in the minds of many people as a great potential threat to in august and it walk with a bore work against that there were a great many allies that were seeing iraq as being a person an entity that was standing against the threat of iran is that with that not true and that it was possible to make many close friendships based upon that people especially when it was at its peak it's good for us to remember that is and i think it's very good for people to to remember history you know very difficult to try to constitute history the way you know two to two somebodies liking him as  what has led to the different economic activities that was led by kuwait and few others to try to depress the prices zero for oil by over producing now fortunately it is sanctions that have led them into one could talk about the war as an unfortunate event but what really exceeds that in terms of impact in terms of the project strikes which again is going to solve i do think you know it would only make things worse in terms of the of the light o the people i think also want regional security i don't think force health security especially the end of it was a tight region so we could talk a little bit about that the thanks and i wonder if the american people realize in a in a in a can really feel the importance of that you have a generation of people that you can see wasting away in a certain sense i've seen figures of as many as opposed to a one million maybe a one million and over a one million over a one million asked because of the impact of the sanctions and it's tied directly to the impact worse and that's got to be building upon to worry at a certain point your patience is tried beyond a certain point when there are from your perspective a man i want to put words in your mouth certainly but in your way that there are  kind of issues that are raised that they're not that they're deliberately trying not to have the sanctions come to an end is that a perception that you've got to be it that the deliberately dragging the out got the sanctions you're not all that on  go you are not able to generate within iraq as a great mighty nation it's a huge nation it's a very rich and rich nation you're not able to generate by your own internal resources sufficient to meet the needs of your shows as i think you would you could you discuss  because there was damage of the war time and you are tied into the world economy again it's not your thumb you know independent small country or something of that sort you tied into the world economy just sanctions work doubly different on a country that for any weapons of mass destruction this is the litany that we here in the united states i wonder if you could address that against the backdrop of these sanctions that have been so effectively deliver down upon the people of iraq against that  the the arguments about trying to find weapons of mass destruction in the unscom and you know and so forth how how you see that the role of the u n and and the searching for weapons and they say that the information is not being forthcoming from iraq if they have full disclosure this is the word that they will use then the sanctions could end right away but the you're being evasive in terms of not allowing the search the u n you know the inspected by the spectators of different nationalities including americans you know and then they took all the kind of kind of sampling which has proven negative no traces whatsoever of chemical biological or any other and the st place which they're demanding without demanding and you don't have and we are telling them look if you are want to give dog documents and things that are missing we probably would be having the section with us for the next century right because they can't be found a copy   a great deal of time when iraq stood up to the iranian threat as it would seem by the west there were ties to geopolitical ties and so forth there was this myth the misunderstanding miscalculation that was during the time of the persian you know to the arab gulf invasion of that's territory by american forces of what do they even see iraq as being in a certain sense in the in a in a unique perspective in terms of the countries of the world or what do you think the united nations of the united states beyond united nations sees iraq as being in a certain kind of a sense a unique entity or a unique political entity or unique psychological entity that these sanctions and these searching for weapons of mass destruction have to be so vociferous so so a city as lee carried out when these weapons of mass destruction do exist in many other places around the world or the capability in producing them do do they have a certain kind of view of iraq  your view that is perhaps irrational geopolitically irrational in terms of looking at the country of iraq if you can understand what i'm saying probably this is the way they how do you think they sounded if they they say it that way but i think in my view it's more of  it's always good to try to demonize a country and demonize their leader and therefore to try to accomplish whatever images that are required by this or that wing the right wing left wing or which is a significant amount and i thought he was it was also on the increase for iraq was willing to share in terms of supplying the west supplying the united states with with its need to avoid so why iraq was chosen probably these are some of the facts of but it looks like is difficult for washington to change its mind what they have picked on some something they get obsessed you think is an element of what they called scapegoat try to project might you know they're in there they're trying to say that you must be so that the weapons of mass destruction bacteriological chemical or these other kinds of things can't be there and yet just a matter of some kilometers away israel  database and the united states we have this great capability of producing them all the time these things are being produced they're very very threatening the very threatening to the human condition i've talked with ramsey clark some about some of the difficulties that have been the that so that it isn't the existence of these things in a sense it's just that they have to be denied certain people who by certain criteria cannot have the weapons of intimidation and strength and power that the people that have that power do have thermonuclear weapons they use that force the power to intimidate lesser powerful people in the world and it is that we want to maintain a world where some people have the power and other people will never have a situation where they're going to be able to any kind of a way to challenge the po super power people who possess and is it in their minds that there are certain people are constituted such a way that they can have the power of the people cannot do we divide the world of the people who are capable of doing is that what i'm trying to get as it would be called something you know in some sort of a way because that it seems in a certain abstract in a certain depth of sense that the things that they're asking for become to be as you put it you know they found nothing there was nothing found there and yet they keep looking for something else and something else and there's a piece of dust over here there's something over here that somewhere and that process of trying to find these could go on forever in order to keep sanctions against the country for other purposes do you think as an alter your purpose behind you know come out of the united states ask about the size of the donkey the ass of the investigate those officers and so forth what was the color of the donkey from which direction was it standing when you brought it in the car yes what kind of a sad what they're talking about when they talk about full disclosure iraq should have full disclosure not just if you're hiding some of these and really from your perspective on this is the you and your colleagues feel that these things have been shown the mission has been made as been met i mean in terms ways and means of for work and also that type of people that were chosen for it they fit some political and rather than technical ends and we had the case that has been recently  in the in the american press that the secretary of state was calling butler to try to schedule some of the inspections do this now don't do this now which proves your point that this entity is things could begin to get into a normal pattern simply as something that you cannot see coming until you've taken a stance of saying that we really have to address the world community over the world has to address these these sanctions and the n c a a level them and they've just been the going target said that there are a form of warfare in a certain very real sense and they're being used very cavalierly around the world it would seem by many people and so the whole question ought to be addressed in a certain sense of sanctions that are so easily called and so easily used for the idea that the sanction should be there the question should be addressed and they should be the suffering that's going on as a death even sixty minutes brought it up they visited and saw the terrible suffering is that the should be address the madeline albright said that apparently this is something that has to be you know  it's unfortunate these people are all dying but it has to be she took that kind of a position which is a unfortunate one you think in your people your colleagues feel that there is going to be an attack launched upon there was we was averted in february and so all that and all the indications are show that there would be a military strike good of or on top of all the offering over there now that they haven't greatly increased the eisenhower there they have greatly increased the firepower it would seem from what has been there in fact it's come down from what it was in february and so forth do you think the you know the the the the arch the ability is in place in the region for them to launch what kind of an attack would you anticipate what kind of a situation they are prepared to the extent that they kind of force him into defend themselves and then expected that imminent attack by the united states any guess as to what you mention that with the tremendous firepower directed against your  tomahawk missiles are terrible they can be terribly destructive they rained down what if this happens in this is over the next days of mr clinton apparently still making his trip the agents of war there i mean it looks on the service that things seem to be you know  quiet or no great build up as there had been you know in the time of the persian incursion that sort of the persian gulf incursion that sort of thing but if there was a bombardment arvin of your country what do you think the reaction of let's just say the people the region because it seems to me whatever the coalition was that was against iraq that had been built seems to be not at all what it was at the time and what do you think the react but you're you're well familiar with american young here you know what you think the reaction of the people within the u s dominated might be this critically they they bomb that thing in so that and and that was a mistake that was a pharmaceutical plant that was bad intelligence what do you think of the ramifications in terms of the the political realities here in the united states and feeling as though they're just using that for some scapegoating wag the dog kind of thing is something what i don't know about i don't know how the population here would be  right but if their blood is shown you know the suffering of the people are shown which i expected because right now though i don't know probably hundreds of reporters  of the of the sanctions themselves do you think they understand that well enough here in the united states or it always difficult to get it and they've got a well it's just you know one of the prices of having lost the war and not to get out of the pain wanted to feed them we couldn't that they'd make these argument the rationale it striking of the television screen as if you know what the bombing done to virtual office so what was it i really hope people to get to comprehend with with the sanctions killing mechanism and also to try to to to to figure out who the disposal before running some people blame the government of iraq but without understanding that the government you for that because nothing to do with the continuation or the idea of another bombardment is a very very unfortunate kind of thing to contemplate and one wonders what it's going to serve as you know well that opposable to have been encouraging him to be more active on this but it looks like the americans are what about now we haven't primack off in russia and that sort of thing has the has the international situation changed at all to where there might be support for iraq that might have been a little hard to see in the path of the might be you know a stronger  robin a stronger position geopolitically or in terms of their contact with people in the world than some people might have assumed looking at through looking at every through the prism of american american you know american sources of media and don't see that the international scene right now change because of the prima cool taking over from the russian policy continues with the same path they have big interest with the united states of they have to take care of the same chances to try to clarify its problems and to be given fair reviews of the security council which the u s have been opposing have undercut if they undercut the united states under the if that's the case if unscom others like seventy or eighty percent or about presumption i will say they have to live the sanctions by fifty percent that the snow would make sense and also of of the remains up on dual use if they take this route you could do it if you're going to talk absurdities that take dual use if you have an aspirin might be converted into a bombers and they can take anything that has to do with an industrial a new industrial says an industrial system and say that it could be put to some military use and wouldn't under it impossible for any country to develop it well yes is he doing that with iraq using an irrational kind of use of this dual use kind of assumption iraq particularly is being targeted as as a country and as india as a civilization for kind of argument to give you an order to to to you know to mask it what do you think the the end policy the end game of the policy that the united states has toward your country is looks like they want other kinds of attempts and that sort of thing and now they've got bad intelligence in terms of this thing and so then apparently the destroy the pharmaceutical plant with bad intelligence or maybe they just don't have good advising a good understanding in order to understand and that they may be not able to pursue what would be in their interest by having an appropriate relationship with iraq which would be in the american interest because of some overriding and perhaps you know myopic kind of view of the world that the people that are type of feeling that you are embodying in this whole generation or yeah yeah yeah sure because a great deal of opposition and then and then also because it seems to be a dance to our interest on the on the altar of what we had george kennan we had a sense of containment we had a geo political sense of how we were going to set up the world i wonder do you think we have that a sense of what is the grounding principles of foreign policy and if it isn't grounded upon what would be our national interests i saw mr bush even though he had been involved and he had said that that we ought to the united states ought to have a much better relationship with the arab peoples of the world than we do but you know we have this tie with the israeli the part of the power that in this did you think that george ball and others used to write about that that maybe we should be read the united states should be rethinking their basic assumptions in terms of some geo strategic view of the world and that part of the world they should be making peace with that part of the world rather than obfuscating the path that could lead to a to an appropriate kind of a peaceful relationship with the with the arab people i think it's a big question many aspects sorry that in a certain sense that being the people of iraq having been submitted to the sanctions are now being submitted as an increased danger that's being directed at them i'm sorry i'm glad we were able to welcome you to the program to give thank you your perceptions of it perhaps a little bit differently than what people who are the normal media perception of that part of the world might be we've pre shared very much your coming in the in the great pleasure talking with you and i would say in the cable audience when your pleasure the perceptions of  know but you certainly could if the sanctions were lifted you know we recognize that sanctions are of weapons of mass destruction that a day or even in war deadlier than even nuclear war if the sanctions against iraq is filled parent beautiful human being innocent of any wrong toward anyone for every person that all of our military aggression against iraq you know