welcome to the secrets of college planning i'm your host at the uva and today we're going to get some insight in bowling at the college level my guest today is karen group gal and she is the director of bowling for mom mom of universally welcome to the show thank you so so let's go back into high school before we get into college when did you roll star for you're in high school didn't start freshman year senior year when you just started thinking that i can go and bowl at the college level actually it started prior to that so i began bowling when i was five years old just in a little fun bumper league and my team won first place and i liked winning so it just kind of stuck and i got more and more involved as i got older and found out more about the local used tournament's we had a very strong local youth association and ocean county and my dad got me involved in a lot of the twenty minutes at a very young level i competed in my first tournament i believe when i was eight years old at the bantam and so from there it kind of progressed and then i would say probably in seventh and eighth grade when i had older peers that were getting into looking at colleges did i learn about bowling at the  started in the late ninety's early two thousand so when it was transitioning into a championship sport at that level i had a few friends that were beginning their recruiting process some mentors have been older than me that i had bowled with for years and that's when i learned about it so probably in middle school was when i started to learn about it and get a little bit more interested in it and then when did it start recruiting software your high school we're going to start coming up to well actually i would say probably  around soft more junior year over the summer at the junior gold championships i had a few coaches speak with me that were u s b c collegiate varsity club level coaches and c w was still pretty new i had a few friends that had gone and bowled at the n c a a level so they started talking to me a little bit about their programs and then you know by my senior year i had a few coaches contacted me contact me and by fall of my senior year i had spoken with coach williamson adventure bill and went down for a visit during their homecoming weekend actually and from there i just fell in love with the campus and the environment and knew i was going to be part of something really special the to college what's been built like oh it's absolutely beautiful entire campus is very picturesque and very homey you know you just feel like you're part of a really inspiring community both intellectually and athletically we were we won the national championship my sophomore year and it was the first national championship in the school's history so that was probably one of the most incredible experiences of my lifetime and they really embraced our team and the success that we had it was a wonderful experience so now you graduate from vanderbilt how does one go from graduating from vanderbilt to the director of bowling and mom of university it's actually a really sweet story so i moved back to new jersey after i graduated and had been job hunting for a while i graduated in two thousand and nine so the industry for the job hunting industry was a little bit difficult at that time especially fresh out of college and i moved back in with my grandparents and i was sitting having breakfast with my grandmother the one morning and she saw in the newspaper that mama university was announcing that the start  bowling program and thought i should apply for head coach and i told my grandmother she was crazy because i was only a year out of college myself and thought i was too young and inexperienced so she kept encouraging me and pushing me so i applied eventually and then here i am seven and a half years later coaching the n c double a program i was the first head coach and i started the program in july of two thousand and ten and from there you know we had some some progression and some little successes along the way we were fortunate enough to have a very affluent soul from the business school who is in the bowling industry patricks n l o him and his wife lisa were generous enough to dhoni a four lane bowling facility on campus which i became the director of and we're in the process of developing approach shop within the facility and turning it into a regional training center for not just our team but also for the local competitive bowlers the closest regional training center is although the closest ones are in michigan and florida so it would be a really wonderful asset for the community the local bowling community and what's the whole process well not every state in the u s has high school bowling so what we do is take a look at which states do a high school bowling and then also their seasons tend to vary by state so it's really an all year recruiting process for us in the tri state area they're primarily a winter sport so from around thanksgiving through till about february is the prime recruiting season for the high school  tournament but there's a lot of youth tournament's that are run by the u s u s b c which is our national governing body that we attend so for instance just last week i was out in las vegas nevada recruiting at the teen usa trials  there's also a junior gold national championship which is a very very large youth tournament that's held over the summer as well as turbo collegiate expo which is hosted by turbo grips their insert grip manufacturer for bowling and they host a wonderful collegiate expo where players not only get the opportunity to showcase their skills in front of coaches but also compete against one another in a mini tournament so there's each year more and more expos of that nature are starting to pop up down in texas the international training center where team usa trains has a combine in the summertime so there's a variety of different places that we go to to look for players so it's not just limited to the high school seasons so what are some of the requirements for a high school student to bowl because you will it really depends on how long they've been bowling and also to what level of competitiveness they want to continue their career we have we're a multi divisional sport at the championship level so we have division one division two divisions three all competing against one another and trying to qualify for our national championship  that being said depending on the player's skill level as they're entering into college and also again there are interest and level of competitiveness just like any other sport there's you know different levels of ability and competitiveness that are tied to division one division two in division three then that's not to say a bowling i mean last year's national champion was a division two school so you know there's opportunity for growth and development a lot of it comes down to the level of commitment that they want to make obviously the time demands are are strong we are our season is very long we go all the way through from october to april that being said you know they have to figure out ok you know what's my level of time commitment to my athletics in addition to my studies that i'm going to have to learn to manage an allocation that kind of will determine i think what level they want to pursue so how  scores and then international students obviously may have to take their toll for you know some other exam as well so really you do have to meet the minimum and see double a eligibility requirement first and be cleared through their clearing house  once that happens you know you can take a look at the institutions admission requirements you know you have some very prestigious academic institutions and women's bowling such as vanderbilt and to lean and then you know there are several different schools so you have smaller private institutions you have larger state institutions with programs so really you have to take a look first at your eligibility from the n c double a side and if we need those requirements and then from there take a look at the academic standards of that institution and see how many schools are are there that women's vote is there a lot there saw about eighty six in total right now and each year we're adding probably i'd say anywhere from three to six programs our expansion right now is happening rapidly at the division two and a vision three levels so we're trying to push for more division one schools to add but as of right now you know we keep expanding each year and there's men's bowling as well not on the while week sort of had the ground running because our preseason starts september first and our school year usually starts right after labor day so we usually have our players come in in that very first week in addition to starting their classes getting settled in with their books you know meeting there for me it's getting acquainted with the team you know you're looking at sports physicals you're looking at compliance paperwork are sort of getting them all ready and then we actually host a demo for quitman so we're sponsored by evan i international and we use the four brands within that company for our equipment and so that very first week we have what's called a ball representative come in from that company and we demo the equipment and take a look at the players fit and we double check everything make sure you know everything fits while they're comfortable with their game from there we then start looking at purchasing their equipment getting them fitted for their uniforms getting them fitted for their their practice  warm ups as well as their equipment and then we start the ordering process then everything comes in and we work on laying out their equipment based on their specs so we'll evaluate their physical game and take a look at their timing their  were at large so that being said now there's more conference play going on and evolving in our sport so you know i think over the next couple years you'll start to see schedules be a little less sporadic in and location so you know right now we kind of travel all over the country and you know just kind of keep a very diverse schedule to keep our eye in a so less up for selection criteria but now that we're going into a q's with this upcoming championship you know we'll start doing a little bit more schedules being that i have such a diverse group of majors and we're in a fourteen week academic schedule i really have to be creative and practice sessions so if i can get the whole group together two to three times a week that's a really big  but we do a combination of individual sessions small group sessions and you know full team sessions depending on their academic schedule and what we can work out within the facility but other teams that don't have the salafis on campus they have to work with their local proprietor so they may not be able to practice until nine ten o'clock at night or have to come in at seven eight o'clock in the morning so you know we're very fortunate in that sense but the reality is most programs you know kind have to work around league schedules and their local proprietors so it's it's difficult our first couple years before we had the facility it was it was very difficult and the tournament's always on weekends correct while the tournament's are actually friday saturday sunday so we compete and usually five matches on friday five on saturday and then three on sunday in three different formats so we have what's called a baker format traditional baker format traditional teen game format and the best four seven baker format and the bigger game consists of your five starters each contributing two frames to the total game so the person that pulls the first frame will the six three in the second frame the seventh frame so forth and so on so on our friday format you do that five times that format five times and then whatever your pin fall is against your opponent when you bowl in the same pair that determines the winner of the match so will do five matches like that there are very long days i won't lie it's six to seven hours on saturday sunday and then another four five hours depending on how long the format takes on friday saturday and then sunday  one way does not go into my you no no no the tournament last over the course of three days well so well for if you count the practice session every so we actually are changing our format this year at the n c double a championship level so committee for women's bowling so the selection would be based off of the criteria which is a combination of r p i strength of schedule all win loss record those types of elements so we would select the eight they'd be announced they would come in and then they would sort of do a round robin of team games traditional team games and then they'd be reseated going into a best four seven bracket as a committee we decided last summer to put forth a proposal to change that format to reflect our regular season the traditional total pinfall games were reflected and the best for seven games were reflected in the championship but not the total pinfall baker games so not all three of our regular season formats were being utilised in our championship format so we actually adopted a new format starting this season so it'll be all bracket and once you're seated you're seated you go right into the bracket but it's kind of exciting and it's a little lengthy the rounds but how it will work is you'll pinfall baker and then that will determine a point you'll either win or lose that one you'll do a second traditional game against the same team after that and so if you go to a null in those two formats then you advance the next round so if you go one in one the tiebreaker is our best four seven format so it still has the opportunity to utilize all three of our formats that were competing in the regular season are in the south when our team is in the south lawn bowling league conference and we experimented and went forth and put put together our championship last year with that format and got a very good response from our student athletes i know my players said it was long but they really liked it they felt it it delivered a true champion and it was grueling and challenge them physically and mentally in a very positive way so the coach is like that too we had to tweak a few things in terms of lane rotation but overall i'm very excited to see the response and and the energy that will come from that new format this upcoming championship you know it's interesting how they so you get a true champion from all the visions because they all come to that one tournament correct and so automatic qualifiers are now being implemented so what will happen is we'll be selecting ten teams based off of automatic qualifier six automatic qualifiers or six conferences and four at large bits so from there they'll be seeded into the bracket actually the bottom the bottom four will have to play in for the last two spots so we're going to have plains actually our very first year going into autumn hall of fires so is going to be another very exciting element and a very interesting element to see how everything plays out but we're slowly but surely progressing more towards the championship structure and formats of other and c w sports by implementing the automatic qualifiers and so now once once the season and go to maybe like local training centers near them or they'll work with coaches back at home i think it's very important for them to have a coach back at home since that's such a long time frame that i'm not able to work with them but now with technology what's fantastic is they can send me videos you know if they feel like something's off in their game you know and say hey coach can you look at this and let me know something feels off and i can't figure out what it is so i actually encouraged all of them to invest in a tripod and they can just take their phone and record themselves from different angles and i've worked with them throughout the course of regular season practices to know what to look for in their games but in addition to that they'll they will participate in leagues they will participate in upper level tournament so there are several  competitive events and now what the women's professional league starting back up a few years ago the p w b a's back gives them the opportunity to compete in those events in the us b c sponsor of those events so they'll take the the winning money and turn it into scholarship money for any athletes collegiate athletes that want to participate and that's what makes it compliant with unsuitable abel's and that brings up another question the parents always looking for money yes so at the college level is there anything for women's bowling you know and c w requirements and not all institutions have those five full scholarships and the term full ride gets thrown around a lot most female bowlers on cletus scholarships are in combination packages so it's probably that's what i was i was a combination of athletic financial aid academic merit and i would say that's the majority of cleavage bowlers as they're on some sort of combination now you have to remember with division two innovation three you know there's fewer athletic scholarships or maybe no athletic scholarships but they have financially they do need based aid they do have obviously academic merit so a lot of student athletes will end up getting maybe that full ride and it's just the coach is being very creative and utilizing the resources of that institution to get them where they need to be financially but also at the u s b c club level there are institutions that offer scholarship money as well so it's not just the n c double a side there are institutions at the club level that have scholarship as well so now do you find beds in areas of the midwest there's a lot of competitive bowling going on michigan illinois ohio indiana pennsylvania new jersey new york and then they're starting to be more events  down into maryland in the carolinas i actually recently started recruiting from the west coast this past season i signed i have two freshmen one from california one from hawaii and so i started looking out towards the west and found some really great players a lot of kind of been you know maybe not seen or overlooked and then down in florida there's a really good contingency growing in fact our donors this analysis helped start back up the florida high school programs on the west coast so they've been you know helping facilitate the growth of the high school programs and helping sponsor those programs and get them off the ground so there's always been good bowling in florida and now i feel like it's really starting to grow with their  hidden gem in new jersey that a lot of people have maybe even over logged or you know not really considered and should consider it's a beautiful campus the administration and the faculty and staff are just amazing everyone is supportive of one another it's really a very nice close knit family you know coaches and professors work together with their student athletes and come support the soon athletes and obviously with king rice coming in and then ironically i don't know if you know this but king was at vanderbilt when i was there as a player he was an assistant coach with them you know when i was a player and then ironically both ended up that moment so that's been a really neat connection to have and they just the coaches are just amazing when they go there they stay there for life the head coaches because it's a great place to work when we get to the end of our show and i usually ask my guess what advice you want to give to the parents out there that their students want to go on to college the bowl get them involved in as many tournament's as possible especially tournaments where there's sports shots involved so sport shots involve more difficult oil patterns and when you go to the collegiate level that that's all you're competing on are those level of oil patterns so the more exposure you can get to those patterns the better and then in addition to that invest in you know a good quality coach and good  quality drill or making sure your player has proper fit is so important because if you're trying to evolve their physical game and they're fit isn't proper it can be really discouraging and affect their timing their release and kind  is wonderful there combine we're looking to try and host actually a clinic at our facility this upcoming spring to help with the local student athletes that want to maybe you know bring their games to the next level but the more you can get involved in that the better and then also research as much and see double a compliance and her nation as possible it's never too soon to get started on that as soon as their freshman and high school get them registered with and c w eligibility center and ask a lot of questions and try to find out as much as you can about the recruiting rules because a lot of parents i think get turned off because they'll reach out to a coach when their child may be a freshman or sophomore and then reach out to maybe a division one coach and that division want to coach can answer any of those questions they can even respond at least for our sport  at that age level so it's really important that they do their research and ask as many questions to people as possible and hopefully i'll have a twitter feed up soon i'm looking to start a twitter feed to help with the recruiting roles and get some more information so be on the lookout for at coach carrier that's already taken at coach bridal something along those lines and hopefully i can help facilitate that process their social media will thank you very much for coming