welcome very very much a conversation we had two gentlemen here time joining is we're going to be talking about the human condition in broad general terms including issues of global warming and other issues that confronts humanity now and the state of humanity and his sense of historical perspective on that existence of that species nested within the larger structure of the universe and large issue sets that and if i may on my far left is a tad hall and he's a he's a he's involved columbia university he's very much of an ecologist and he's here joining and he's also part of you you have a group you call it the ted showmen who's a partner also of that and they're here and we're going to be talking about the human condition and technology and all that sort of things the demographic i'm very very much from for conversations thank you harold so the planets and is what do you think i made was good let you to start if we ask you a question so you're from another perspective i'm very old i'm eighty two you're very young and so you have a youthful perspective on things ted sort of in the middle  but let's start with you and i and i've asked you what is it how is you doing and in terms of your fellow members of that generation as it were who do they see what is the feeling do you think among them in term big and what are some of the problems that confront them as they think from their perspective the fate of the world and what might be able to be done to address possibilities for that without trying to speak for all all of my sort of adrian right the sense that i get is there is a very powerful awakening conscience and collective unity of everybody  spiritual kind of elevating that icarus that's hard to articulate so there is this this this awakening sense of justice and then at the same time when we look at the outer world and our shared kind of material world there is a lot of confusion confusion because of what i'd say misleading information and that global warming has been put into runaway situation now this year it's very visible with the north pole being over fifty degrees fifty degrees hotter than usual this year no they find they were aware of that are extremely upset and very frustrated with the incompetence of the institutions and government sort of frameworks that have created the problem and also seem to only be exacerbating the problem why do you think they're operating that way rather than more why do you clearly available to us why have they stuck present oneself as succeeding but the jig is pretty much up with most of the leading powers of the world it's the youth are very aware of the fact that that we in uncharted territory for the c c s and are also terribly bankrupt we're left with a completely bankrupt financial system so there's almost no economic leverage to create solutions and so i think that the established powers that that are just not adaptive enough for evolution are of course they're going even further in the wrong direction in some cases and even the most seemingly sensical solutions are actually pretty dangerous in those spaces because they're not looking at the whole picture and so i'd say it's if people would speak with each other instead of crucify the planet for the sake of these imaginary subgroups of political party and and racial identity and we have a real history and our ethnic makeup but they're the ideas of these groups are actually people  are addicted to dis tea to denying our unity as a species yeah yeah i suggest you've taken an indictment of the society is in place i would suggest i'm not sure it just comes out of my  mind i think probably over the long haul what is it two hundred thousand years we've been around as a species ten thousand generations maybe something like that it's always the youth who have that kind of attitude toward the system in place where you think it's of a new quality difference in terms of the distinction between those trying to reify the outdated institutional structures and systems of dealing with the economy and so forth and it has been traditionally between the generations you think it uniquely a gap between them but i think it's probably always in a certain sense sometimes laughingly then probably because that's that's progress transformative time but you know going through you know i came up in the sixty's and the generation gap was very deep at that point now i think between ahead in a positive way now we've hit we've had barriers across the board on the economic system on the environment the current system is falling apart at that it's it's transitioning and i think that the generation gap that we had seen earlier to some degree is still there there's always a generation gap but hopefully the development issue in that a lot of the problems that we're having is especially in this country or in our stratified levels of social development in middle america you have the church for meli a and they tend to be ethnocentric they tend to be looking only at nationalism and their own close circle on the other hand there are more progressive  also a major change is it's happening at all levels i think across society now as we move from an unsustainable system a deeply pathological and unsustainable system which is on the verge of destroying certainly humanity and potentially all of life on the planet i want her i don't think that's possible i'm all in life with it's very possible obliterate the species i didn't think that life could be obliterated i mean take another few one billion years or something but that's a more precious life miracle than the what i use the term that that there was this thing happening on this planet is it isn't just an incredible huge miracle believable miracle that everything that's gone on in this planet in this universe occurred i don't know where we don't know yet now if it's occurred elsewhere or what do we think about when we think about the universe and what's out there in terms of our relationship to the to the broader universities to me it seems that there's a lot of very solid evidence that the whole universe is full of life that is that right ok that it's full of ice and microbes you know basically invisible life so the whole universe is this promote that path and that the paradigm shift in western society western societies since the scientific revolution on potentially has looked at the matter as the fundamental building blocks of the universe and has ignored consciousness leading edge science as were the mind itself and the mind and leading edge science is now have taken this full circle and brought the role of consciousness back into this and it's we've been involved with and we're working with a number of scientists evolutionary scientists group at the united nations really who are helping to move this that's fundamentally immaterial to an idealistic view to understanding that consciousness is the primary element the primacy of consciousness in the universe redefined our place and  miracle people with religion as an answer to everything or even something like scientology or something like that the group that's doing i think the leading research in this area is the institute of noetic science oh right yeah they were had an understanding that when he came back to earth you know it was clear to him that modern science ignores consciousness and the mind that he came back in the modern science would be perfectly happy if consciousness didn't exist yeah because consciousness brings you to the heart question and there's no way to begin to answer that so most scientists ignore the hard question but science is now helping us to understand that that's that's fundamental and that there is no reality unless it's observed so our role here is to observe each end we have to co create the dream and that's i love i can't remember the scientist save he goes through the rational proof of the primacy of consciousness the primacy of the mind but if the folk time goes at the speed of light  then that means basically the moment that a photon is generated and the moment that it is sort of dissipated or it hits matter for to that photon at the same moment even if it is in if it traveled billions of light years so when we look at a photon of a star our con our mind is actually one with that  that's just rational proof so it means our mind is eternal so how can how can something perceive an eternal phenomena without being a turn on well i don't know you're getting in space i'm not familiar with or that all this kind of  and i don't know i'm leery of that i guess i don't know what that yeah those are the superstitious i mean people have different synesthetic experiences but but if we can perceive the light that means a lot of us it is really ok he's a pretty good it was just jane roberts was one and she had a voice that she could think would come through or at another level and i was actually with her when she did that one time she went into a state and there are people who've been seeing these kind of things that i tend to have  spiritual tradition go back to our earlier times to go back to the indigenous you can see pretty much across the board that many of these groups just through their intuition after the lenses were developed because they didn't have the material capability of examining except mystery and things like that it must have been a lot of tales to went on and cro magnon caves and things like that to understand things and everything but when he discovered a telescope and made it possible to orbit pathways of jupiter with that he was able to discern that this youth  concerned and and he got very they put him in jail for bringing up something that was counter to what the d population at large had a sense of identity wrapped up in absolute and that it's a thing that probably has read resonance today today although ironically now we've rediscovered that we are the center of the universe so i think there's a certain ironic element of that is that now we know that the universe is  this fear fear brighteyes the universe my universe extends outward for me in all directions so i am the center of my universe your universe extends outward from you in all directions each the high there's a tradition that whatever reason allowed whatever reason a find spirit in religion must submit to it so it they have to be and they're actually one system in its reason  science is the outer application of reason and and religion or spirit is is really the taxonomy of how we understand the internal experience there's a beautiful writing  out consider that self of puny forms when within the the universe is folded and so we there is a another very fascinating proof about maybe the divine that is in those writings of that if we put together all the minds of the universe every single mind in the infinite universe that all of their experience of the divine could not come close to understanding the divine so that is how conundrum it's a conundrum but it's there is a there is another proof that whatever is the cause of something cannot lack it sun but it comes from the sun so we're aware so we come from awareness so the untainted awareness or the origin of awareness is is is fundamental to two aligning ourselves to our each other in the world and and i think that there are at hopefully at some point science especially the social science which was my background comes into how do we organize do i do distrust the religious traditions just because i think of as a way of having a sense of identity which is important in terms of a history of private fuller used to talk about the universe and our role scientifically and that most of the things that came out of the past from a study is ignorance i agree fully and i think in that we're hitting all kinds of different points which i know or i know and i'm part of the ideas that were to understand the universe and to grow from some of that that's that's in there and part of integral type of spirituality is in no way defined and i think from integral we make a very strong distinction on a spiritual plane well maybe it's it's it's you nothing is absolute i mean that's sort of you don't believe in absolutes and everything like that but that there's a there's and there's a synergy to two existence behavior of systems unpredicted rather of something more than the sum of integrated circuits and there's something and if we could just talk about the human condition outsourced would be talking about i tend to see it materialistic terms and that you know we have a measurement of consciousness that becomes part of an evolutionary process i guess the apex that in terms of what's going on but what we have is a system where the the the individual expression that i've been able to be come part of the mix as it were things like a jam jam session musicians or something and now you've got the people you've got you've got all the population of the world coming then there's a material world in which they interrelate with one another and that material world  sort of thing but what happens if you take the whole of human society we may be coming to a time where they've been so mired in the historical process the human consciousness and understanding and intelligence has been within a larger system of people like a jam session to where we may get to the point where this thing that's going on perhaps it can be proposed father ted and some others that we're coming to a  point where there will be a liberation of the human consciousness that has never been and will be coming out of the collective agreement on how we're going to make it that each part of the collective conscience called the home the homo sapiens species take it species wide of luck gaia something there will research point where they will be able to be maximizing their participation in anti intro print function of understanding the universe in a jam session sense to reach a certain peak and let's say liberation and this is material liberation people by and large and kill each other over principles of that just but over material things and every hour we may be coming to a time when there will be a liberation of the entire homosapien exerciser species and that there would be like a e or a resonance e or a synergistic relationship to the universe at a level transcendent to what we have not ever been it's like the new punctuated equilibrium coming out of evolution and we've all not know what that is is like speciation we're coming to relate that not a political change it's something coming out of evolutionary change or  that will come we cannot know what that is until we get there is synergy it's energetic awarded an acquired is the liberation of every cell in the human a one hundred trillion cells a human organism what is important each has their own individual had it they all work as a system and if it's healthy they work well so we get that planetary basis which we have the capability perhaps of coming to in your generation or even sooner maybe that whatever you know i don't know if it's possible that we could be at a time punctuated like stephen jay gould eldritch punctuated equilibrium in an evolutionary your very or is that just st trick though is that that that comes from these from i feel that it's not an ideological process but it's it's a very spiritual process that the great teachers had perverted after their ascension you know christ's place somebody said christ was the last christian died and then yeah so there is that and then i mean christ's christ impact in the world i mean he brought together the assyrians the syrians the jewish people welded together entire nations the impact in his life you know very within hundreds the years of his and his teachings were the generating force of that and it's similar with a doubt it's saying what would a china look like without that what would asia look like without that or without the buddhist teachings these are these are we can advance as a whole and divorce ourselves of this this element of our evolution either and it's not to cast them away but in in behind teachings that we have to throw away religion if it's causing destruction because it's supposed to be a cause of union of i think that we would see that a lot of a lot of people who come from the spiritual or religious tradition now that there is something that we can't ignore the that mystery of the universe and that process and say oh we all did it ourselves on the verge of liberation from a historical context of all preston and i think that that's something that is not taken account of we think we're all still living in another era bojo asters well i think  every once in a while there would be a flower you know some bizarre plant throw out a flower and then suddenly all of the plants aside there would be flowers and there in that there was an occurrence of flowers on earth flowers in humanity everyone down while a person would be bored who was truly more advanced than others the problem was that there wasn't good record keeping so somebody a bad side but what's key here now is that there's videotapes if jesus showed up you know they're called vials and there is no idea ta is the brain of the cell that's where it interacts with the world into if the information in the now and that at the atomic level that that is exactly the same d as a computer chip it's very easy and very clear to see how the internet and computing is literally an organic extension of our evolution we have been at it and one thing i want to bring it back if i can to the evolution being a thing of like do we agree that it was that james joyce james jurors had daedalus a history is a nightmare that's it i think and history is a nightmare from which i'm attempting to awaken now see that's something a lot of people want to see lilacs and things like that in history and they're spiritual things and everything but history is something that is you were emerging out  it that that's it we're we're coming we're coming to the were you talking about this computer and so forth but is it possible but look it's kind of crazy brits are you guys here and we've got a josie and you're in a few people and all that  mr trump and that and and all the people that are and part of the human scenario under it it's a hell of a show you know what's going on human existence and all the added facts and follow and all the rest of it but is it possible that we were born about two hundred thousand years ago and now we come at that we're in a moment of qualitative quality not quantity develop that line there's no into back two hundred thousand years our line our genetic  born into a time of because they get the sense of qualitative change just like we're getting a sense that the the development of the robots and so forth now is becoming qualitatively different it's undercutting the human need to have slaves and you had to have to get production of things that would make the world more comfortable or better or more numbers of people and everything done after have people being wage slaves as they are now by and large  not that's what i was trying to get at with the idea of a gigantic jam or what metaphor can we use it's got to be everybody it's got to be everybody involved in the gigantic everybody being doing that represent the best think of their of their evolutionary capability and do you know what i mean and like you get one hundred sure has cells in a human organism in every one of them to health in everyone's it or i don't know  and or something like that but as the time qualitative transformation do you ever get the sense that that is the gate into which we happen to have been born unlike the rest of humanity going back ten thousand years why would it be know if it is a st of all is it a possibility that we're coming to the end punctuated equilibria moment where we're going to emerge and what are the conditions by which that happens in evolution and to be worth into molecules and so forth up a whole lot right and that everything is a whole lot the term whole i would you like yeah yeah and a whole lot is a complex adaptive system something with made up of lots of other things yeah that also has a single identity started shelling us as a yeah yeah but it's a systems thinking it's this organic network that we're extending on to earth we are literally at the very least creating a global nervous system and potentially a global brain and as you were saying not being able to tell what's the fact that we are eleven being that is expressing its its awareness together the really difficult thing that is that this that the scientists the material scientists can't get out as is the united heart perceptually we're realizing that i without speaking the leave it of but really humanity we're all experiencing this common common reality and this this this bug that what and yeah and so with that there's a writing that says you know there's no greater distance in the universe and mind in the heart and so that gives us an it you know an experience of the vastness of our internal reality the heart is an organ the prince of of heart math and and more and more science is finding that the electromagnetic the the the electromagnetic strength of the heart to something and i don't know the exact numbers on a one hundred times greater than the brain and that the heart truly media and that the heart and that our consciousness is not totally in the brain but that the heart controls a lot of it and then the few extend it further to the chalk or is the seven chalk or is that the heart is essentially the center chalk which mediate between your lower forces and your higher forces so that when we think  if if if we if we're when mind that we don't love each other how is that mind going to function so if we in our brain and our heart and the time and atomically and nap and atomically is there's actually a newly i guess the spirit of a person is to not just think of the mind as as you but as a as the phone you know you're getting that so you are the person who is who is speaking on the phone and you're speaking through the medium of the phone so the the brain is receiving signals or is receiving information and giving it to you you who you are which is not your body and the outer legs of the ten to bale of your external expression of your exact real self or myself we can even know our real present our absolute true self that is that whole d being an which is one with the universe and one with the creation of the universe is is an unbelievably powerful thing i don't think we're with them yet i think we may be coming to be we're going to be with them at the universe level at a level transcendent to what has been the case for two hundred thousand years of this experiment called d humanity is coming to a like leaving the womb we've been in the womb of a historical context that is now we're at the point  time like a pregnancy doesn't bring birth after four months in a person it's nine times yeah and we're disappearing out back again my question how in the hell can it be that you and i and we all three were born if that's the case if that's what's before or maybe that's not maybe this is just another decade or two in the human history that goes back ten thousand years and you've got all kinds of things and all kinds of charlatans all kinds of fairy tales all kinds of of hard won and all that it's just part of the historical record and nothing more than that and we can put it together and everything but the what's in the offing is a qualitative break with the whole of the history of th and then when it's reaches gets to that point there becomes there's a new species a new entity in the universe and it comes out what was so we were old institutions that had been used to hold the fabric of the society in some sort of semblance of survival and also progression if we view this as a living universe we're going through a time differentiated from any of the cells that have come before and in the old caterpillar cells start dying off and the imaginal cells grow and then suddenly the old ones are all gone the new ones are there and the butterfly is there so labor the difference between some human beings and others like you are we going to blow iran or fly i'd say that if we'd compare that means that we're part of the old one because we're one so either we either we own it or we rabbit and eat it over an open fire mean getting thrown out by the backside for being a rogue show or something like that but anyway we're going to come back into another program ok and pick up on this and everything your pleasure the perception to people to ted's the ted habits and thanks very much for that and stay tuned will be good or not it is the history back in the program will be carried the next day when this one is carried not sure when that is so tune in and please and thank you for viewing and thank you for talking and let's take  now that's it so that's a program for the stamp i did one night we should