new york thank you thank you for having me my pleasure is really good barbara's been talking about that and i found a used to go digital out of the research and so forth but bear with my ignorance i'm not a scholar of the early christianity and so forth but invent jesus the roman conspiracy to invent jesus which is a very interesting subject area and it is selling very well and so forth it's a very interesting controversy a concept that he puts it forth in the book and it's a great pleasure to welcome was fortunate enough to sell them and at that time i went back to a subject and it interested me for some time i grew up in japan and went to a jesuit military academy over all that for all of my youthful education that's really rigorous intellectual and i have st mary's military cabin yeah ok and we studied the new testament every day ok they were focused on that particular you know part of pedagogy they wanted to make sure that everyone studied the gospels ok and so this just even though as i went through life i sort of drifted away from the faith i was very interested in it just the historical perspective of how the religion began and so when the dead sea scrolls were discovered i began to study them to see if there was anything about them that would shed light on this mystery of the origins of christianity the mystery  mystery is simply how cult that advocates pacifism and of giving to caesar what is caesar emerged from judy in the st century because in that century there was a messianic movement that was the nationalist movement it was the movement that of the people and we can verify that because it was able to kick out the romans in other words there was a messianic movement in the st century that wage entire era of the ministry of jesus and the formation of the christian cult ok there was a military actually a messianic movement in judea that was in constant warfare against the roman empire that included massada and that sort of yes yeah exactly the that was one of the rebellions there were three separate rebellions and then there were many smaller skirmishes and these were rebellions against the roman order exactly and they were national rebellions in other words they were able to seize the country  set up their own government mint their own coins and drive the roman legions out militarily a number of times so you can see that this was the nationalist movement they were able to drive them out of where out of here you know out of the higher country out of the entire cunt yes for a brief period of time for several years you know the words they from sixty six through seventy they were able to actually occupy israel and to set up their own government and  yeah yeah and so forth and there were people who were advocating that there was a messianic message in the air as it were as well the historians of their up jo s soon tony as tacitus all record that what promoted the jews to rebel were the messianic prophecies ok so they were looking to a messiah to lead them and it's very logical to you dick tradition is that god will send them someone who will have his power who will help them militarily david for example you know with his nd temple yeah the nd power that that david was given that is the basis of the mess in a tradition so it was very logical for them to look to a messiah and if you read the dead sea scrolls what you'll see is that they were in fact looking for a messiah this would not be a pacifistic messiah this wouldn't be a messiah that would advocate giving to caesar what is caesar just the opposite this was a military brick warrior like david so that was the religion that war that was actually the national religion of judea during that era is that correct c a religious state this was essential taken over by the romans who put in their puppet rulers the herods but the maccabean religious tradition never died out it was always in combat against the roman empire w politically in control of the region and when the maccabees took over the area they would you know for compulsorily circumcise all of the individuals in the villages of it they were very religious and all of their  ancient writings in those systems of thinking about the conditions under which much shock would appear in your estimation i think that the best the best way to look at that is to look in the that they can relate to the present in other words or trying to determine when the messiah will appear right so the dead sea scrolls have just a number of documents that appear to be looking are trying to find the messiah well that was core it seems to region by a foreign military and the political maybe well not only that they the roman emperors insisted on putting their effigies in the temple and this is in direct violation of a break law you cannot have the  images of foreign gods inside the temple of the lord and so when callignee put a statue right in the temple of himself in the temple then this just reenergize the religious jews the to start trying to determine if they could combat rome and the messiah was something that they would naturally look to right and there are probably other peoples to rome had an empire that extended out over a wide area when you have an empire right in fact the the individuals who produced the gospels the spazzing and titus they had before they were sent to judea to destroy the mess and movement and there were the individuals who raised the temple they had been in france and in britain fighting against the druids oh really that's where they had come from so they were far as i can tell they were essentially the roman religious scrubbers they were the ones who came in and just got rid of time of the roman invasion of judea does no no longer exist that religion was essential extinguished but a new new judaism emerged but it was very different probably the history of the world is that way i did my dr just station ah people of bolivia and it's a foundational culture for the andean area based upon the potato they come in a unique food complex that made civilization possible and about one hundred years and they they extended this way all the way from bolivia  and imperium and they had control over the tribes and kept the unity and buildings and so forth and like much like rome did and then then they fell apart as empires do and then one rose about one hundred years before the to pretty ruthless today while they knew how to to absorb the religions of the provinces that they conquered and they knew that this would help them subdue and control the peoples that they ruled in many peoples of course  the had a very specific problem in judea because in all of the empire they would permit any imaginable form of religion but there was one exception you had to permit emperor worship you had to permit the worship of the emperor in all of your temples and and that was the point that the jews simply could not abide with the roman empire and that led to all of the rebellion so the rendering on to caesar what diseases on to god what's god's didn't apply in that sense you would have a well a loyalty a gospel rather than the gospels well our john all of them we are unified piece of literature as you know in my opinion but in that particular expression you have to remember that the caesars were god the imperial cult was in  know force at this time and when you say to give to caesar what is caesar and to god what is god you're actually talking about giving everything to caesar because caesar is god was caesar was god in terms of i c they had gods that went way back in their own thing i mean they had well they didn't burn juno and but we haven't gotten the things the imperial the occult was a stablish with the death of julius caesar and this officially deified the caesars as god and this became in fact the the dominant in the sense of the majority of temples would be dedicated to caesar's as a god and so when when the gospels essentially have one question that is essential which is who what is the dennehy of the son of man that jesus says who is going to come and lay low the galilean towns he's going to encircle jerusalem with a wall and he's going to raise the temple throughout the his ministry jesus always talking about the visitation by the son of man he speaks of the individual in the rd person there been various explanations why jesus does this but the fact is the gospels were formed completely to answer the question as to who the individual is who is this person who is going to come and be the son of man or the price the designation that jesus uses is the son of man and he's using that expression from daniel and as daniel uses that it is related to the messiah and the concept of messiah the concept of messiah yeah right and that's a concept that is still held i have a lot of friends who are involved in true there's not that many left but that was the attitude of all the jews in the more modern next they were very much against the idea of making a nation state in the modern example because in the main thing there's a lot of things they were interpret the torah in a torah true way they say and it says the conditions under which at the end time right at the end time and which the in gathering after david in gathering of the day asper a jew is around the world was to be achieved this is a more modern thing but it was done and they interpreted to say that it would be done only within a context of universal justice exists in the world and that there would be no military force involved in that it would be a thing that kodaly acceptable with no damage being done to the people who were there and so forth so they're the most anti zionist people in the world very and they still play her in the jews by and large who walk the world today still claim that we have not had a visitation by the messiah the  cart it is the greatest possible heresy on the part of nationalistic minded jews in the modern experience after holocaust and that to establish a state here about the leadership or without the moshiach and he's still not a right i'm familiar with the theory you know what's interesting is that result but but in terms of the origin of christianity you know this is such an important point because this particular set of caesar's they believed they had won the mantle of the messiah as a trophy  war did they use out of their ancient the ancient religion things i mean you think of the constantine that kind of thing and three hundred or so but that did they have within their they had many ancient gods or something or what the roman historians are referring me to the precursor religions to let's say in the you know in rome well st of all the they knew the concept of the judaic concept of the messiah because they fought against the messianic movement and they fought against messiahs individual claiming to be the messiah so they knew all about what that individual there was and how how the the scriptures predicted his coming  motivated the jews in israel to rebel was the concept of the messiah but they said that the jews were wrong that the prophecies that they were referring to daniel isaiah that those prophecies actually predicted the roman flavian caesar in other words titus flavius ok was the individual the scriptures predicted this is the official position of the roman historians or is not a roman historian that of the era that how few people know this now because what's really important is that that all of the archaeological evidence of where christianity originated is not and you did so in rome it's in the catacombs this is where the very st evidence of christian existence ok comes from now these catacombs still have inscriptions on them so you can see who created them well the flavian created them tightest flavius is nice is dumb attila who is one of the st saints of christianity is individual who created the oldest catacomb in rome all of the imagery on the walls the fish the anchor the star the all of branch these are all images from the imperial cult that worshiped record and there were a number of religions of course that were in conjunction with with me through them out there was the cult of isis for example is very popular and then there was all these mystery religions ok now the problem of course and linking them to christianity is that there really isn't much known about the theology there's not a lot of written records if you look at christianity what you see are is the pontiff the sacraments the college of the cardinals a particular kind you have to remember that there was followers of a christ cry simply means messiah in judea from year one through the year one hundred and thirty five when most of this persecution of the christians was supposedly taking place and in fact it is literally true but they weren't roman christians they were jewish christians they were the followers of the messiah in judea that were taken to rome and tortured and killed the historian josephus who covered the war you know he flatly accounts all of the followers of the christ that they captured during the war and took to rome and slaughtered in the call and the christ being then some jewish messiah some jewish that they were following in other words there they the messiah was a title that could be passed along generationally perhaps are certainly more than you know one individual would be able to be given the title and so they were looking to someone who had the power of god that they would refer to as a messiah or christ and this was the nature of the rebellion yeah so that when you're taking christians in quotes to rome of course this is true history history but these are not roman christians remember the roman christians are taxpaying they're peaceful what motivation would rome possibly have for killing these individuals from a very pragmatic the fact is that when you then when you look at the ninety three or nine hundred and fifty seven i think who would be involved in the well there was three of them there was this bosnian the father and two sons and to mission titus was the individual who actually set up the gospel killed and all he deems these very specific things while the victors write history son of yet they always do ok well the gospels are actually a military history jesus is naming military victories of a particular individual when he talks about destroying the goalie in towns or fishing for men at the sea of galilee or circling jerusalem with a wall are raising the temple there's only one individual who can actually claim this and he's titus flavius and again he is an individual who claims to be the messiah he isn't just someone off of the he made he made that claim in rome and so for historians made it for him his story and he's a very they all said that that all of the jewish scriptures predicted that  but the fact is that titus his father was a god he was deified as a god and titus had as a designation therefore the son of god who defied him in the roman senate who did the roman senate defied many people w the these individuals realize that being a god gave them a little bit easier time maintaining the rule of caesar yeah i would think so yeah pretty good hard to rebel against someone who's hard to get so which will end the political yeah in this  powerful cities within the imperial cult so that the imperial cult would have temples and priests available so that as my theory develops the the gospels once they were created could essentially be read  to people who would be brought into the temple so that so that when you when you look at the gospels what they really are essentially is just a very straightforward declaration that the son of man or the messiah ok comes from daniel and jesus in the gospels when he refers to the individual who is going to do these very specific set of military achievements military their other men to their there are things to write to the military over course but remember he is doing these military achievements right he's going to encircle jerusalem with a wall is going to raise the temple and he's going to lay low the galilean towns he says the son of man is going to make a visitation and he says he's going to make it before this generation passes away generation is forty years because that's the designation that moses gave for does it for him because that's how long the wandering lasted you know before they could go into the promised land when it won't generation would be about twenty years well but it but according to the to the perspective of forty so that's why in seventy so that seventy then would be taking you back to the you know the beginning or the beginning of jesus's ministry massada concluded the war and thirty three dollars and so then you would have the conclusion of jesus as ministry  be demonstrated you simply look at where jesus begins as ministry it's at the sea of galilee and he says you know if you follow me you will be fishers of men right ok that now we just follow along with ti fish ok so now if you follow through the ministry all of the episodes the when jesus talks to the guy who has the legion of demons inside him these are all just simply representations of military the events that titus flavius goes through you you for if you follow through you'll even come to things like you know in the gospels they have a son of mary who is a passover lamb because jesus says take of my body you know passover returns  into a passover lamb if you follow through with the ministry of titus or that shouldn't a campaign of titus flavius you'll see that you have the all of these events are taking place and you even have a son of mary who is a human passover lamb at exactly the same point in this relative process as titus does and that then following that you have whereas in the gospels you don't have a crucifixion of in a group of three where joseph of r m a c a takes him down from the cross and jesus survives you even went to particular to forty years exactly away from titus as campaign of the gun link the events to i c of the gospels normally understood because what you're saying is not was normally understood by a lot of people writes a mark laugh you know which is the oldest of those was written in greek what was it and that the gospels that have become the canon is because those are the ones that contained the imperial cults message for the future because what's really interesting about them is that they actually word you they created the ministry of jesus as a mere that would predict the military campaign of titus flavius so not only is jesus making these specific predictions that the son of man is going to do but everything he does is  a foreseeing of what titus his campaign is but that was going to forty years later right before jesus says before the generation passes away before forty years is over you'll have massada because  you understand is that the roman comedy in these individual very witty is rough so that when jesus says it's in this particular kind of roman comedy where the four will say something that is seemingly spiritual but there is a literal meaning that is funny when jesus says you'll become fishers of men well why don't metaphor there it what it's literal you know if you follow the roman christ yeah you're going to be actually fishing for a says you know you know you get less you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have to remember that that this that famine was a roman siege weapon and the the son of mary who is a passover lamb the individual is cannibalized so over all you're saying in a certain sense jesus as we understood it normally in the christian tradition so it did not exist you know it's a literary  so so when you look at the archeological evidence write it not only suggest that the flavius were involved in it ok nero's oculus these are all flavin either employees are are their family members but you have to remember the flavian are flatly through their historian saying we are the christ and flavian caesar is the cry so when you when you when you consider well who these individuals think was the son of man who came to galilee and laid that place flat who encircled jerusalem with the wall who raised the knew who the son of man the messiah the christ was they know it's titus how was your book were received by a tradition of christians not well i would think not i think you'd probably get a lot of problems with this right it's not it's obvious he is a shame because it's a complete understanding a very simple clear understanding of how the religion began there is no question the flavian produced the gospels and they did so on the surface level to create a pacifistic religion but they also wanted to document that their family had defeated the messianic movement and therefore they had become the christ and kept it in check and there that right so it's just too full there so that became christianity titus flavius he was the pontiff but the caesar often took that title so so that when you actually look at the archaeology not not the hocus pocus people talking about you know well the there was a paul had a evidence to support the notion you know there is no where there isn't but that's a pretty strong and earth shattering well there there are there are no other than the gospels you have no st century yeah documentation but you do have documentation of the flavian family you do have documentation that they claim to be the christ you do have you have absolute documentation that they fulfilled all of the prophecies that the jesus in the gospel we and we know the victors write history and the prophecies are coming out of ferric tradition it is your day well and the torah but you see that i would end the idea on the evolution but that's not the words of jesus jesus is very up he has the same situation the temple has been taken over by a group and he uses the same word that is used in the gospel this particular word for a kind of thief i see and so that this is so that when you go through jesus as men ministry all of the the literary character of jesus has that experience in the temple i see so all of these experiences of jesus are in fact just representations of the military campaign is a really interesting piece is in the book and i want to probably you know we could talk for about twenty hours that kind of thing maybe we will over coffee or something but anyway the point is that we have a i think we have a role in piece of put you have about this five minute piece of video that we want to try and get in ok so maybe we could set that up i'm not exactly sure what's on it but in the control r up the piece that is to be inserted i think it's about a five minute piece that talks to some of these issues that i luminance yes of so if you could run that piece now then please and let me know when it's going please emerging which is completely militaristic it was the the basis of the rebellion against the roman empire and this point is  that you know this is critical in understanding and understanding the religious context of christianity you know comes from because the people in this movement were christians in the sense that they follow to christ word christ simply means messiah so that when one thing when you discussed christians being you know taken to rome and killed in the coliseum when people criticize my theory one of the things that they often bring up is that look the romans were attacking the christians they were you know killing the christians how could they possibly promoting christianity and the reason they even asked the question is because they are sort of unfamiliar with the history that there was a a movement of christians that was militaristic that the historians of the record as having been captured being brought to rome and actually killed in the coliseum so that's the that's the real christian roman relationship is one of the military movement and occupying army so you're saying that the that the christians who were persecuted where the messianic jewish movement exactly and you see even then you know you can see in your question that  it's it's difficult even to talk about it because of the semantical problem of what the what the word christian means but that's exactly what i'm saying is that is that is that the one of the elements of the creation of christianity that the roman jews was to essentially steal the history of the real mess and movement in my book i show that for example the apostle simon or peter  his history being taken you know to rome and and being executed is actually stolen in the christian gospels they take that character and make him an apostle of the christ and at the end of the gospels jesus predicts that simon is going to be taken to rome and and and given a death to glorify god and this is literally true but the individual that he's speaking to is not at that particular the one of the purpose is to try to absorb the history of the real mess and movement and make it the the history of the of christianity that is being controlled by rome so that they it makes more believable in terms of its historical basis ok so who were the apostles they these are images literally images of the of the maccabees if you look at the names of the apostles you'll see the names of the maccabees pop up you have simon john judas matthew and what the gospels are doing is they're trying to show that that this history of the of the maccabees who essentially the family that was leading the struggle against rome became these docile pacifistic followers of the you know the prince of peace the purpose of the gospels is among level is to simply try to pacify the messianic movement which was militaristic and so that's why they they borrowed these histories they they kind of you know they use some of the truth and then they also added the version of reality that they wanted so that the eventual followers of the religion would be pacifistic and pay their taxes would bring it up to date or something like that within scientific understanding we've been here two hundred thousand years as a species and we've been through a long period of time and it's interesting to me we got reverberation you might wan tradition in the idea of the messiah somebody who is going through a machine is going to come and it's pre sale in a certain sense a time when unlike james joyce who says history is a nightmare from which were attempting to awaken that there will be a time when there will be justice and appropriate order and not the law of the jungle coming out of a historical evolutionary process and so i work and we get to a point and it's interesting to me the due date people do not say that the messiah was their christian where there was jesus or that that was the time and it was not possible for you to see it in those terms of there being that time until perhaps now we reach a point now with our extended capability where we can destroy apparently it has to be modeled the whole species with the weapons that we developed finally to get useful out of the killer i'm not sure of that it might be somebody would survive in new guinea could he or something but it looks like we've got that promethean power we also have a power to overcome the ancient scourges and also the knowledge were in a certain sense coming to the end of two hundred thousand we may be coming to what would be the conditions of justice we saw president carter on the other hand on the television saying do you think we live in a just world he said of course not we've all been the strong were lording over the week and we haven't had to sit in a situation where there was enough or where there was a condition that would allow for real justice to appear the jews who held on to the idea you call this justice you call this a messianic condition that we live it we've been killing each other with regularity alarming regularity throughout the whole of human history from two thousand years ago up to the present this may be a time when we're coming to a time where there will be a qualitative transformation is growing out of our technological capability and provide this may be a time of when justice could the conditions that could allow for justice  you know in the sense that the torah at least the right that it will be created in a condition the end time will do great in condition of universal justice right we may have the capability of achieving that in a way that simply could not even be dreamed of two thousand years ago much less you know that this may be a time of qualitative transformation maybe we're coming to a new relationship to the cosmos consciousness we may be transcending the human condition there was a consciousness prior to homosapien along the home annoyed line and then there was a quality we may be coming to a new relationship or liberated a relationship that the prophetic tradition of the messiah moshiach was heralding or was pre saging and it may be coming now my feeling is  that we desperately need to transition into a less hostile liberated less well i'm not sure what how what we're doing used but it is simply the case that the ability to make weapons of mass  we're going to have to work out this problem or so and i think that we need as much good information you know make good choices and that's why one of the reasons right responsible to bring out the book i have no agenda against christianity for s i just think it's produces very rational thinking it's a very and it's easy for government leaders to use that's what that's how the religion was designed was to be used by the government to control the masses and so i just think that we we're past the point we can pleasure perceptions in the show one more time we've got some time it's called cesar's messiah subtitle being again joe probably out the roman conspiracy to invent jesus that's a very