on the streets fund and specifically the infrastructure funding and as you recall this was requested by the council that we come here and directed it to the finance committee we're pretty excited about this opportunity to present those to you want to just look at the preliminary schedule that we've set out this is not hard and fast but this is our idea of how we might go about this discussion and as you recall or as you'll see on the slide what we have for today is just talking about the background information really understanding the budget what do we have in terms of our revenues and expenditures getting into some of the detailed activities that public works does with the street fund and then really just looking at what potential topics we could have in the future here with the committee talking about potential efficiencies that we could do or fund adjustments and then eventually what we'd like to do is have some sort of recommendation from this committee back to council on what adjustments we could make this is the outline of the presentation the first part is we're going to hand it off to bob scenario to really give you a background on the revenues to make sure and kind of go over that again i know it takes a while to get to to understand that and then review activities some of the historic trends that have been happening over time in the fund and expense review and then talk about possible next steps but this really launches our discussion on the whole topic so   in a sense the the way they behave is creating some of the problems whether we have with the fact that they're just not keeping up overall with our costs so we have the three primary revenue sources our measure auu t and gas taxes and to the right you see the biggest source of that is you total users taxes it's fifty six percent of the total at seven two million dollars that's half of total users taxes we get the other half because you know goes into the general fund and then the measure a revenues that's the transportation sales tax a half cent that was passed in two thousand and nine or ten that goes for thirty years and then gas taxes on the left and i'm gonna start sort of a reverse order i'm gonna start talking about each of these by the starting with the smallest the gas tax at about two million dollars per year and this is based on the current year budget so the gas taxes are come to us in five different categories there  percent and then the second largest is bottom right section twenty one hundred and five and then twenty one percent of top right that's one of the that's the most recent one that came about in two thousand and ten and i'll talk about that but for the most part i would say generally speaking these revenues  revenues are allocated to each city and in the state based on population and that's really when you know get down to one of the reasons that we are not seeing a lot of growth because our population has been pretty stagnant relative to other communities and poor they may be growing then their gas taxes would also grow so i wanted to talk about sort of get into why we're seeing some major declines and our gas taxes and we'll she will show you that it's pretty dramatic in the last few years and what's being projected in the next couple years it has to do with what happened at the state back in two thousand and ten when we used to have prior to two thousand and ten a sales tax that you know the state has its rigorous five percent sales tax we get one percent and that was a obviously a percentage of the of the total amount of sales in two thousand and ten  and then prior to that it was also nine nine cents so the federal portion done it with no local money we don't get any of that money here locally or in california so we get really the state sales taxes and then the state excise tax however in two thousand and ten implemented was called a fuel tax swap and what they did was they created a new section of the highway safety streets and highways code twenty one three and at the time they established it at twenty one and a half cents and the reason the state did that it was really to allow them to use the money they were getting under the state sales tax it's five percent and they making a guess of that and they establish the rate and then the following year they trued up and so every year they have this troop then the second year based on what actually transpired in terms of actual gallons sold and what the actual price of the gallons were so the the change and went from a state sales tax five percent of sale was that five percent of the sales of gas yes and then the state excise tax what is an excise tax it's just it's a different kind of a tax but it's a it's a fixed amount and again see where it's just gotten up and down but in the last couple years and where it's projected to be as dramatically below where we've seen in prior years that this pica was one over one point two million dollars almost one three what we're projecting in next couple years is going to be four hundred zero for this year and about two hundred and some thousand dollars next year so of dramatic decline and the reason for that is because since it's it's ironically it's it's a variable rate unlike the other portions which are fixed it does go up and down based on cash prices an actual gallons sold and as you know gas prices have been dropping dramatically and the reason we've also seen the big decline is because they're this true up i mentioned they make an estimate of where gas prices are going to be in with the gallons sold and they've been they've overestimated so not only are we seeing the real drop in the dollars but because if they d it's a downward true up and we're seeing the compound an impact of that of that declining gas prices and they expect that to be pretty stable in the next beyond two thousand and seventeen until gas prices really start to go up so this has really hurt us a lot because over a few years we're seeing a dramatic decline in just that one revenue source the rest of them i've been pretty stable i mean they're because they're fixed and our population is pretty much fixed we are seeing that they're relatively stable so these are the actual and projected numbers for our various components of the gas tax you could see in two thousand and fourteen we generated about a receive two eight almost two nine million dollars last year two three we're projecting to receive to mind this year but at one eight million dollars next year and you can see that th beyond what was projected so these numbers four hundred and seventeen are probably a little bit higher than what they're going to be okay so now we move and i just wanted to point out that and if this is in the wrong place but this is house gas taxes statewide are allocated i'm not going to go into this but just to show you that it's a very complicated formula but home all the monies collected get allocated and those are the portions that  point four cents per gallon go i don't know the answer that it's not part of this it not sure what it goes for no it's allocated but it ends up in streets or transportation somewhere if it goes to dc and ends up in healthcare or not sure i'm not sure well actually it does stay in transportation it goes into the highway trust fund at the federal level and the amount of money that congress appropriates for transportation funding to the states exceeds the amount of money that's in the highway trust fund that happened i think about three years ago for the first time in history they use general fund money at the federal government level to fill the gap in the highway trust fund so that the allocations to the states could be maintained at the existing appropriation levels so the same phenomenon that we're seeing in california with declining purchasing power of gas tax relative to the needs is also happening at the federal level and all of this did that basically all of the federal gas tax goes back to the states and goes to the north and south counties four hundred fifty five million dollars to each and then one hundred forty million gold stays allocated to the highway well one wining along with other projects and so the local portion on the south county you could see how then its allocated among the various q sort of categories the top represents how much money is allocated to cities for local streets and transportation improvements that's seventy four percent of the total allocation going to the south county and then and this is kind of a forecast that's sp cag put together starting with next year the forecast through all the way to two thousand and twenty one by jurisdiction ours is sort of highlighted in the middle city santa barbara so two thousand and seventeen we're expected to get three point six million dollars population basis or a per capita basis so it behaves in the same way or they're projecting thirty nine percent that's probably okay i just i worried that that's a bit too aggressive and in light of what's happening with the sales taxes in general and internet taxes and all that or sales i should say and then the last one when i mentioned is utility users taxes and again that's the biggest revenue source ins for streets funding at seven point two million dollars so i just wanted to show you that utility users taxes are really a collective different sectors and each one behaves differently but overall i would say that there none of them are behaving in a way that's can i really provide us additional revenues with the exception perhaps at the last one which is water but i'll go through these real quickly cellular that's where we've been seeing a lot of decline folks are moving away from not only landline but they're now starting to move away from traditional cellular services where you pay for a two year contract and you where you set about your contract more and more people are moving to what's called prepaid and in the old days they used to be sort of you buy and you buy a card and you buy minutes and you add it to that but it's becoming more sophisticated than that where you can actually basically go to verizon now or t and establish what's called a prepaid plan but the only difference is you just have a to your contract you pay for the full price of the device and you use pay a monthly amount and it can be further limit at a certain amount of minutes and data and all that stuff but there's still these sort of tier one or two carriers that provide just you know you have a device and you pay a monthly amount for a certain amount of minutes and effective this past january so just last month and it does not require that all the folks like liquor stores walmart's and even the carriers that they started applying uut to these prepaid services it's a lower rate because a good chunk of that or fair chunk goes to the board of equalization since it's being sort of collected through that same infrastructure and system as with sales taxes so we may get you might get four percent instead of the six percent that we would yet so we're so hopefully that down the road we're going to start seeing the turnaround in the cellular portion where we're seeing the erosion moving to prepaid but that's not really starting to this year and really because of the timing we're not gonna start to see the impact of that until next year so when you look at the numbers from their first row this is in fifteen we saw a ten percent decline almost eleven percent decline just because of that year and then a two percent decline next year so just that the trend is downward cable tv also similarly going down but for reasons being that you know a lot of cable now is online so things are moving into the into the internet if you will video streaming with tvs movies and the life that we've talked about before so we're seeing that as sort of a shrinking market electric is pretty stable you know the rates are set by the puc and so we're not seen a lot of volatility there and this last year we grew at four point seven percent but we're projecting to be pretty stable over the next couple years natural gas you've probably been reading about the fact that there's such a glut and natural grass and worldwide but particularly here in united states so the prices just sorta like with oil prices are just going way down so we're seeing that those numbers decline we  projecting as a flat next year but this year in last year about a ten percent decline and then refuse and water those are our own utilities so we're seeing some stability there water as you know last year we saw more conservation than we expected so that's why we had a five and a decline in the uut related to that this year we're projecting four point fourteen percent because of the pretty substantial rate increases we've implemented this year and then next year about a six percent increase but overall i mean i think you could see that in fact this chart here shows that since two thousand and ten we've overall even though each one sort of behaves differently we've seen pretty much it cause steady revenue source when it's not been including increasing much it's been pretty flat again overall this year were expecting a four point  next year two two percent but just hasn't been keeping up with with the cost of providing you know a particularly street services and other related programs so just a quick takeaways did all the revenues they just because of the way they're behav they're allocated and how they're generated we're not seeing them keeping up with the cost to providing the services in the streets fund and i will say some revenues are in jeopardy as i said you know things like cable tv and and things like  falling prices there i just think that they're sort of in jeopardy right now the state is looking for ways to increase funding for infrastructure we've talked about explaining sales taxes as a way during plan infrastructure we working prop thirteen the governor's proposal budget proposal for next year issued this in january it does include a proposed three six billion dollar transportation measure and it's funded from an increase to the vehicle license fee some cap and trade money and and just raising more taxes the gas taxes it would provide the city of santa barbara summer around half million dollars or more money so not a lot of money but it's it's better than nothing so those you know that develops so i think that concludes our presentation to be happy to entertain any questions so we'll go to the street fund activities and just to give you an idea of some of the all of the things not all inclusive but trying to get all the high points on the street fund and what we're doing we've broken this list up to try to help make sense of the different aspects of the operation infrastructure being those things those are the assets that we have in in the field we put traffic our transportation plan in order the assets the infrastructure because what we're doing in transportation planning is we're projecting into the future about what our needs are going to be and so that part of the team is is talking about what we need in the future based on the carrying capacity and increasing growth of santa barbara and then operations and maintenance i think some of the things we haven't are here it could go under either we're trying to under maintenance talk about the things that are infrastructure that need to have attention and maintenance but then other things that are under there that are a little bit maybe could go under both graffiti abatement so something is getting sprayed and we take care of it within the right of way and on buildings that we own garbage removal within the ri operate that we put traffic engineering under operations and that run covers management of the operations of the system the traffic signals and such street sweeping and the downtown waterfront shuttled our operation costs easy left the special event set up is mainly when we have parades so when we're doing a parade and we're closing down state street there's a lot of barriers that need to be set and  traffic diversion around those are the very big events and and streets is involved in that the porta potties are the portable toilets refers to the ones that have we have set up at yun ollie at the labor line mainly as a deterrent to going in the creeks and the land development review that's also within transportation planning but that's a different section and and we put that under other because that's reviewing land development applications  affects the streets in other words we're we're making sure that one of bill dean's going in that it has the right access to the republic right of way and the right future carry capacity but it's in other and then the the  permitting fees which is the national pollutant discharge elimination system fee which is about thirty thousand dollars we just have to pay that if you have other questions about there's people that can help about that are familiar with that fee when we talk about all these activities and begin to talk about this which is our discussion about the limited funds that the mister samara went over we think about the the core services that we have and the non core services that we have and to kind of get around that discussion and see what that might be i just put up the the public or mission statement which we which is providing the community with a sustainable foundation to thrive by delivering quality services and public infrastructure through efficient fiscally responsible practices is one of the when we talk about this one of our kind of our mottos is you we're at our best when you don't notice when the public notices is when there's a problem with their daily lives and getting from point  b in the street and that's when they notice we're doing great when no one notices us the so the core activities really relate to the streets and getting from you know have moving goods and people and services throughout the city and doing that well and high quality the non core services are related to other things that may be in the right of way but are not directly related to infrastructure and maintaining that ability for people to get around so what we tried to do is is here is try to begin to take those categories of street fund activities and identify which are the core and which of the non core activities so under  infrastructure i think it could be argued either way but we put street trees in maintenance median landscaping under the the non core it's it's beautiful definitely an asset to the city of santa barbara and a testimony to the beautiful city but in terms of getting people from point a to b not not exactly vital operations you know we have to have that that pumps that looking a pump station to keep the city from being inundated with water and traffic engineering is is a part of our core staple of being practicing a safe system but then when you look at street sweeping the downtown waterfront shuttle and the easy lift contract by the way easy left just if you don't know easy lift is a is a paratransit service that is in our communities very effective and good that supplements the mtd bus service so and that's required by law that that the amount of money you spend on transit service must be supplemented for paratransit which is more of a door to door service for people who can't use the bus so that's what that means specialist event setups not exactly core and certainly not the portable toilets and then under maintenance street resurfacing yet which has been a very very big topic in the past and about the amount of money that we don't have to keep the the proper quality of a street service going definitely a staple for us and then this the signage and and keeping the paint fresh on the road is important the storm drain cleaning  obviously important we haven't seen the el nino but obviously if the el nino showed up and big that's big proportions we need that versus non core graffiti abatement garbage removal shopping carts and and homeless encampment they're very important to have but they're not the non core services and then the others i explained before land development review not not exactly core so going to historical trends of street fund activities and and this is this is kind of a really interesting thing for me to reminisce beginning i've been here now twenty five years you know the city of santa barbara so kind of being around when some of these things changed and looking at some of our non core activities and how they have been added over the years the graffiti abatement which for for the street funds is takes about two hundred fifty thousand dollars of our attention that was  used to be a general fund a role that when the you know in the recession the great recession we move over to the street funds and largely to prop up the the general fund trash collection the right of way this is we're getting calls you know one of the when no one knows who to call about you know a couch or a dishwasher or a pile of trash and they don't know how to handle the marburg so we get in the in in the business of taking care of those things and that amounts to about thirty five thousand dollars when you talk to the amount of time that it takes and the resources we use to do that the toilets are about twenty thousand dollars over on you know you're on an always street  street tree maintenance the way we are doing that now is we give about a million dollars a year to parks and rec and then they maintain the street trees that's the median maintenance has kind of been an evolving issue we've we've handed that over to parks as well but as you know our boards and commissions when we do a transportation project there has to be a santa barbara style and so they're constantly asking for really great robust landscaping like in the center of a roundabout for instance well that has a real maintenance cost associated with it that carries out the events and teardown we're looking at about fifty councilmember dominguez his question can i ask a question about the street trees so you said you pay a million dollars out to parks and rec and then they do the maintenance that's great can you expand on that a little bit give me a little more of the history behind that  structure the well we've you know see i'm going to be foggy on a lot of the details the the million dollars goes for folks in parks and rec that actually do the street trimming and  i don't know maybe oh here's joe zachary is here who who managed that program can tell us a little bit about that history maybe weighs about nine hundred and fifty thousand dollars is folks solely focused on street tree maintenance as for the history when it started i actually don't have an answer for you i'd be happy to come back with that information but it's  i was just asking because that seems like a pretty big number to go from one department to another so i was curious if there was a reason it went that way rather than straight to parks and rec but there's no real other source of curiosity beyond wondering why it kind of goes we can we'll come back to you with that more history on that the downtown waterfront shuttle an easy lift contracts the easy lift contract was added when measure a measure a which was measure d and it became measure a that was one of the agreements the city did to give extra amount of money it's about two hundred and thirty five thousand dollars a year too easy left as a way to enhance their ability to meet their needs it's kind of above what is required that the city contributes the downtown waterfront shuttle contract is split up between downtown parking and and the streets fund it used to be  funded by rda completely and then over time it was some was sent to the downtown parking and then now with the elimination the arditi the rda now streets so the streets portion is about six hundred and fifteen thousand land development review staffing is about four hundred and eighty five thousand that is that is also we do have some amount  about thirty five forty percent is recaptured in the land development process through fees and then the street cart summer white repeat that land development number again four hundred and eighty five and then shopping cart retrievals is about three thousand so these are some of the the non core activities that we've inherited over time the the event setup and teardown as far back as we can remember we've been doing it and then so we also have core activities that you would expect the streets division to be doing but not doing so when public works we're trying to do that  to do these core activities they also have been changing over time and with streets paving that has been reduced over the last two decades and as the as the funding sources have been shrinking over time as the this trend is not new it's it's it's continuing that as the funding sources shrink what we've done to accommodate that is doing less of the paving by not replacing some of the big equipment that we have so we don't rent those that machinery storm drain cleaning we really have done we don't have the proper equipment for that we haven't done it in a long time so you have both the maintenance issue of the of the draining system that drain street lighting upgrades and maintenance we we have not done we've been largely reactive on the maintenance on that one we do have some reliance on land development if a land of element project is going in and we we can get a new streetlight and upgrade the system we will but we don't have a rope we don't have a comprehensive plan to say okay this is what needs to be fixed in the street lighting area and and going after that because of the lack of funding and then traffic signal upgrades we rely right now very effectively but on safety grants to to upgrade traffic signals for so for instance recently when you the the traffic signal heads the the red green and and and amber lights are the old style was eight inches and the new style as twelve inches the new standards twelve so for instance that upgrading that we're doing now was done through safety grants moving from the moving from the the the walking man to the countdown timer that kind of thing the kind of the putting in a  a and an arm versus not at you know in this city we don't have a lot of the arms that go across the street where the signals in the middle of the street so those kind of upgrades are safety grants the problem with that is that you have to have a safety problem to get the grant so it's not it's not a proactive safety funded program it's more more reactive in nature so with that just to go over some of the expense expense reviews and what this slide does it kind of gives you begins to tell the the story of what are the more what takes up the the lion's share of the monies and what is less and we're not  a previous presentation we gave you we try to total it we're not trying to total it here just to give you an idea of what is more and what is less i will make some some just some notes on this one it looks like traffic signals is very very expensive and that is so expensive because that also includes the the electricity bill for the lighting and the traffic signals which is which is pretty high it's about six hundred and fifty thousand  the annual electric bill so that one seems a lot higher than a and it really is in terms of the work effort that we put into it so this is this is useful for our conversation and then this really tells us the story as to why it's important for us to be talking now you know we've we've public works has come to the council in the past with the bigger issue about street pavement indexes and the quality of our roads and diminishing returns that we have that are that is the kind of the bigger picture now what we're talking here is more about hey the capital the capital fund that we have is also diminishing and expected to come down to a place where we're not we're not having a capital budget anymore because our expenses are increasing it and this tells that story by looking at the the revenues that bob talked about versus the the operations and maintenance expenditures and then the difference at the top the difference is the top at the top is the amount that we there hold and reserves or we use in the capital for the capital program so when you look at this you can see that this gap is narrowing in the future and that means that our capital our capital is going down one of the things to say about that is that although we don't have though we're getting a diminishing capital program it's also important to note that we have a lot of other funding sources that are grant funded so for instance we've been very successful with pedestrian and bicycle grants and we have the bridge fund that we're replacing through the state so while it seems like we're really busy and that those those things will make it seem like we're really busy the actual capital program is diminishing so here's the summary slide on that the trends as bob pointed out revenues flattening some decreasing salary and benefits are increasing and and that is a lion's share of the folks that are doing the work so when that price tag goes up that gives us less money and then allocated cost outpacing revenues and then this as i explained just the last diminishing funding for non grant funded capital projects is the issue so that's the end of our presentation and we'll entertain questions on that and begin this discussion i also want to note that we promised we would bring the la sea report regarding streets to this group to vet that and we could do that in future meetings questions from i've got a question there's a different slide from yesterday about streets funds review expenditures by program this slide from yesterday had a line item from transportation administration that isn't on today's slide is this a mistake this other one from yesterday or is that it's not a mistake the transportation administration is now let's move that up to that the that we had on yesterday's slide has both allocated costs and the street tree forestry money that we pass through and we wanted to break that out to make it a little bit more clear okay got it so it's broken out on this if you saw if you take allocated costs and then the street tree the street trees and you add those together you get the transportation so it's just really kind of a poorly chosen heading for that right and describe it trying to make it more clear yes okay good you know if you looked at grant funded capital projects what would the trend be for that and what would be the order of magnitude of that in comparison to because you know it clearly what's happening at the state level is that the state has decided it knows best how to spend transportation dollars and is specifically programming those funds to meet its agendas and we're an aggressive grant recipient of those programs but i need is sort of a sense as to how much money that is in relation to these other things because that's clearly an increasing right i need some funding source well as you know with this with a with the capital program money for capital program diminishing we are going to really up the game to do that and i would say it's big getting more successful i think with the atp grant the active transportation grant and in particular because  that is a statewide grant that we didn't have to rank our projects we actually every one of our projects competed statewide if you understand that in other words we didn't have it wasn't a proportional by population choice and a lot of people didn't understand that and we did and that's why we that's why we did well we get you know eight point three million is quite a bit of money there and so we did best per capita in the state and and we don't we can't guarantee if that trend will continue so i think it's will do i think the answer is we'll do our best to compete but whether or not it's an upward trend over time i don't think we could say well not just the atp funds but like the safety grants all the other grant programs if you added all those monies up and you divided them you know in the last couple of years is that that's obviously a significant number and like you said it might be an outliar number but in looking at the whole capital picture we don't get to necessarily choose our highest priorities through that process that's a different way of doing business i don't think it's the right way to do business but it is the way that the state's doing business so but but i need to understand that in context of what we're talking about here because eight million dollars for the active transportation program grants is four times what we're spending on the capital program so it's much much bigger if that were to continue for ten years we'd have a lot of stuff built might not be our priority but it would be a lot of stuff on the capitalist gerhardt rebecca  concerns that we have is that the the things that are eligible for grant funding tend to be improvements right and what we're struggling with is how do we maintain our basic infrastructure so although we've been very successful at providing really great improvements for transportation particularly alternative transportation projects like sidewalk infill bicycle and safe routes to schools we there just are not grant programs for general pavement maintenance either sidewalk or roadways and that's one of our biggest expenditures if we were able to fund it properly i think this is one of the more challenging parts of this  problem is explaining this to the public folks drive by they see things being built they see things being built in the city and they assume that the city is doing those things and they and we are but we're doing it with state grant funds that are on a competitive basis so it's not as you said we don't have the choice to use those monies on paving the roads and and the things they don't see like the storm brains you just don't see those and then the other thing that we didn't say that's important is all those grants have matching funds that are required to get them so without a capital program we don't have matching funds to actually capture those that would be helpful to understand that in more substantive way that you know what percentage of our funding is going to go after the grants to leverage that extra dollars is it a modest amount of money in comparison for example i think it's you know ninety ten on the bridges so it's a relatively small amount of money in comparison and what you get i don't know what the active transportation program matches our similar  and and that also depends upon the volume of money like it like if someone were to die and that's section then you get the most money but yeah you can see that's kind of a conundrum let's see any other questions councilmember dominguez thank you going back to follow up on on greg's question with allocated costs i'm used to that in the accrual based world but here how are you using allocated costs or what does that mean in this slide facilities fleet information systems over computers or risk management operations all those are central services we call them ics funds and they charge every single fund and department for the for their benefit they receive so at every single you'll see that anywhere general fund gets allocated costs as well so that's what it is it's things that they really can't control other than to the extent they can control how much space they use in a facility how many computers they have but things like the liability program workers comp program those are all based on formulas and actuarial studies and all that so it's a number we give them in finance and it's just but it doesn't change from year to year but that's what it's for so another question i have is so when you say allocated costs outpacing revenues how is that in layman's speak if you think about the word those costs come from they are related to again you know staffing for the most part in information systems and risk management and cost related to those services so this management cost when you are going up because workers comp claims or the magnitude is going up liability claims are going up so how much they get charged is is a variable at a minimum it's going to be tied to staffing in those areas and we typically see a three to five percent increase each year because of not only salaries but because of other benefits like retirements and and our retirement and health insurance so you typically tell people is some about a three to five percent increase every year in those allocated costs but as you see the roman user group that are coming into the streets but are not growing at that pace and those are revenues you're receiving from those departments that you're charging for those services so the revenues i'm talking about are the reads the revenues we just went over in the streets fund so they're relatively flat you see historically but the allocated costs for at least four what they're receiving there are going up at a higher do these so the net operating fund balance none of these are taking into account deferred maintenance or the roads that we're not fixing and how that costs may no be more than linear mister chairman committee member odenneny goes so you okay thank you councillor white you have any questions okay can you tell me more about the historical level of effort for a storm drain cleaning you mentioned that virtually nothing's being done now what what used to be done what is what is the best practices level of maintenance for storm drains well based on all the memories that we have in in with the people we have right now it's it wasn't very much work that was done and the practices that were we're hearing that are even done now and the folks that have been there a lot i've been there a long time because many of the streets folks have been there quite a long time that we just haven't done that effort or we've had to borrow equipment to do it hmm so really historically the way that system cleaned itself was with el nino storms every twenty years flushing everything out well or a response to it gets clogged and then we're going out and dealing with it's more of a reaction to an event okay so it's not really a big cost driver in this equation in this conversation it's not a big deferred maintenance item that is looming as something cool i see ms  shaking her head yes it is deferred maintenance is about the mainly about the corrugated metal that many of this the drainage system that is out there and so it's a it's a it's a the metal is although it's a bond erised where it's a galvanized the when the water sits in that bottom of that pie crusts eventually it'll rust out and then then the the storm drain becomes partly earth end and then that creates a lot of sediment into the the creek and then eventually in the ocean as well and charity members as you are aware we have programmatic programs for our pipeline replacement for water and sewer we have no such program for our storm drains and in fact we have had to my knowledge virtually no infrastructure replacement or repair of storm drains except on an emergency basis we've had very little to no planned work in that area so there is a big exposure there so in a perfect world it would be similar to wastewater or water and you'd have a one percent replacement schedule per year something on that order of magnitude how old are is this system compared to again we have we are gathering information as we go some of the system dates back it you know it marries the age of the community although i must say that the early community infrastructure generally did not include as much storm drain as we might have preferred  and streets were used for conveyance so i would say that most of it's probably sixty seventy years old at a minimum and older not much is going to be newer than that so it's it's at the end of its us life the other issue as mister dayton said is that it's a different type of material that doesn't actually last as well as some of our other pipeline materials it's more subject to  that would be good to know we can get it is the current stir see the art to line those pipes now there's a way to maintain them there are technologies for that it's corrugated so that makes the you know the the lining technologies that we use usually are looking for a smooth  corrugation makes a difficulty but there are you know there certainly are in place technologies that you can do for some of the pipes depending on the size of them and the condition and i can't tell you what we would need to do on our infrastructure because we've had fairly limited efforts to the maintenance of it let alone the management of the capital so what is step one of getting a handle on all this is it videotaping the all the i think this past year was a good step one we had a very planned and programmatic approach to cleaning of the storm drains as mister dayton indicated we did retain a factor truck that that had been retired from the wastewater service so that was used in the collection system crews trained to street crews to use that truck and there was some videotaping of some camera inspection of storm drains but the first step one is getting the assessment of the condition of the of the asset and then evaluating the infrastructure for its vulnerability and then prioritizing it against all the other priorities what's the priority of that versus the other priorities for the capital money so it's putting all of that together in a matrix to come up with our t priorities for for funding so are you adequately resourced in the budget to do the evaluation of the system or is that something that needs at this point in time we we could probably do the evaluation the concern is that we we know we have no money to fund the maintenance or repair of the system and so the money that we use on evaluation really needs to be looked at the timeliness of that because that money that the evaluation is somewhat a point in time and you want to have an evaluation that informs the decisions you're making about what you're going to fund so doing the evaluation now when we don't have funding to do any work doesn't make as much sense as doing the evaluation when we do have funding because things may have changed understand that but there does need to be a way to get a handle on it absolute order and magnitude otherwise we don't have a good case and with that is money that is some work that we need to do how long is that how long will that take you know mister toth isn't here today because he's on vacation when he gets back i will ask him that i know who's been looking into that issue future okay thank you any other questions customer do vegas thank you two questions one the slide primary streets funding sources on page seven it indicates the three major sources is that fairly typical for cities our size or for cities in california or do they have different models yeah i think it's pretty typical i'm not sure the every city is allocating a portion of their utility users taxes or something that you know which is a general tax so we may be somewhat unique in that regard but for the most part we know if it's there's a lot of cities have a transportation sales tax or a countywide gas tax monies are for this purpose in fact they're restricted for this purpose so otherwise i think we're pretty consistent than the communities aren't we the only city in the county that has a utility users tax yeah but i'm talking about other without across the state you know there may be other communities who are saying we're gonna allocate some general tax revenues to the streets operation councilman or does it mean this and we did look at that information i don't have it here today but we'll bring that next time  are fairly as mister samara indicated not not everyone has a utility users tax but and that's a great source of funding for this infrastructure we are fairly normally funded for our streets based on street mile but we do have some data comparing us to other agencies and we'll bring that next time so if they're if they don't have this source and it's fifty six percent do they just have a smaller streets budget or do they have an turn it of source of funding  there are a couple things one they make it you know you run the gamma if you take santa monica for example they have significantly more funding for her road mile than we do and then it depends on the age of the infrastructure and being an older city that's one of the issues that we're facing but again i i need to go back to that database we did not bring that today and we can bring that next time yeah that would be really helpful to benchmark that amongst you know like cities and as a comparison funding sources and expenditures you know it probably is a fairly significant work effort to get at this core versus non core in comparison to other cities that's that's the issue it's a little bit it's kind of subjective as to how you define that and i'm sure each individual city probably categorizes things differently so there's going to be a lot of noise and that information but it would be helpful to compare the second question was have we looked at the impact of certain things like say growth either population growth or say hotel occupancy growth would those impact these costs or these revenues one way or another or would they pre pretty much where they just track so in other words what our infrastructure require a lot more maintenance or a lot less maintenance depending on increases in population or decreases in population on the cost side of the revenue side either or well on the cost side we're fairly built out city so we're we're maintaining what we have but we also have having said that we also have the council's given us direction to have like high quality sidewalks and build new ones and and then there's also the the landscape that goes with that in the right of way so that would be the marginal expansion but from we're largely a built out city so we're not building new streets regularly like maybe other growing cities are doing and that is the lion's share of the bulk are missing and what i'm looking for is the piece that where is its tip money or other sources of money that are coming into sp cag and that are being allocated to highway one hundred and one at this point but which could if there were seven votes be reallocated to streets in such light cones in having that general ability to use but get are getting locked down into second tier of highway one hundred and one funding we have a either today or whenever else we're talking about this can we learn about that a little more even understanding that we we don't have the control over that but at least it's technically that money could be used for those purposes should the will be there the the funding i think you're referring to is the regional state transportation  you the exact dollar figures of what it means to us but wait it's every two years that it comes with the state transportation improvement program and that money is being held by the sp cag board just in case there are  funding that the the freeway needs or the measure a program as a whole that over over time is about fifty million dollars over the thirty year strategic plan for a measure a and so that's being held in case that money is needed to and then the board has a policy to release that when they don't so it's really dependent upon whether that happens or not if if if seven members of the s wanted to do that you know that would that be great and i with all of these pie charts there's there's nothing that that's kind of rain that comes in from from an unknown cloud on at least as far as these charts are concerned and wasn't the number isn't the number substantially larger than did you say fifty million for one hundred and one wasn't isn't it the this the number for the next chunk there's a hundred and which is not the regional share but our that this pastor to the locals but it's the one that goes to sp cag for regional transportation projects an example of that might be an interchange the roundabouts at so we don't see any of those monies we would not have seen any of those monies so it's hard to find a comparison but if there are any city regional projects that need to be done over the measure a thirty year  rather than paving money yeah because the priority for infrastructure has been placed on the one hundred and one right and that comes from the state i think that would be helpful to have all that and we can get you know super fine grained it's about all those other funding sources but i think the chart in this in this issue for where the context is the allocation of measure a i think it's slide seventeen that shows thirteen percent of all the money goes to highway one hundred and one widening and the other slide that follows it which is seventy four percent of the money that's allocated to south county goes to local streets and transportation improvements that was the deal that was you know put together to get measure a passed was making that kind of allocation and just for some context if we did benchmark this transportation sales tax measure with others around the state a more typical percentages in the thirty percent range for local streets and roads thirty percent for highways and thirty percent for alternative transportation so our county is a big outlier in that sense dedicating such an incredible percentage toward local streets as opposed to highways dominguez thank you so the two charts i'm curious to see more historical data on is the history of gas tax revenues or i guess the total you show us the actual and projected revenues and it looks like it's declining in in two thousand and fourteen from two eight to projected in two thousand and seventeen one point eight six three so about a million dollar difference there and that's sixteen percent of our primary street's funding sources at least as of this year how is that been looking back like ten or twenty years has our gas tax as a percentage or as an absolute number so as gas prices go up and as the inflation goes up for all costs the cost of oil to put on the roads to the materials that go on the road the the labor to maintain the roads that's all going up but receiving is not going up because it's a flat tax per gallon and then the other thing that's happening is that we're actually seeing a decline in driving the millennial generation is not driving as many is not paying for the use of the road maybe i measure a if they're there they're spending money for sales tax we get some of that but for the gas tax they're cut out of the equation and what are some of the things that the state's talking about remedying this situation is doing a vehicle miles traveled tax and there's actually there has been a pilot program in oregon there's one in california that's supposed to be initiating but that is the story for gas taxes domini diminishing diminishing dimension over time and that that has been going on for a long time for decades and there's nothing we can do locally to combat that it would have to be sacramento that's great do we keep track of  gas sales in the city do we know as more gas been sold or less gas been sold and what that trend looks like yeah we don't keep track of the men like gallons sold in the city we just know what with the taxable sales are for the various gas stations in town but yeah so we don't keep track of the actual gallons so don't know the state does because that's how the basis for allocations of some of them some of the money we're seeing it would that be a proxy for miles traveled within the city or do we keep data through other traffic signal measurement devices the miles traveled we deduce with our traffic model based on the counts that we're taking on the street and where people are coming and going to and actually the state is going to be is that starting to ask us to keep track of traffic using that number the vehicle miles traveled and so we're going to we're going to have to up our game as an agency to decipher what that number is and our traffic modeling results that'll be coming in council hopefully in the next three months will begin to tell that story thank you any other questions or any other information that committee members would like staff to work on before the next presentation so at some point are you going to bring us back information about you know pci you've done this before just to kind of remind us and a councilmember dominguez is new to the conversation on some of these issues so there there needs to be a little more going back on covering that and a nd in doing that in comparison to the other neighboring cities i think is useful that whole you know what are people whatever the city's doing to achieve different pci and allocate resources in a different way is i think important for this conversation  okay we can do that okay there's no other questions is there anybody didn't wants to speak from the public bonnie did you want to say anything put you on the spot that's okay if you don't you didn't put a speaker slip in but i don't think we have any  if you're gonna talk you do you have to come up to the to the microphone you don't have to talk but if you want to talk you have to talk on the microphone but just need you on the microphone the questions regarding diversion of funds or not diversion but application of funds from asia a from the freeways that's an interesting concept but then i recoil a bit because i'm so anxious to see the freeway completed it i don't know on a scale of one to ten if i am more anxious about the freeway though than i am about our befuddled infrastructure and really  i mean the storm drain you know and all of this um i am i have the first book of ordinances at home that my great grandfather wrote and it would be interesting to see if there's any mention of placement of stuff like that but that aside i would hope that you would peel the onion even further than the consideration of a seven to nothing vote to reallocate measure a fund's from the freeway wouldn't really like to see you peel the onion away from what is a little i mean this is going to be hard to explain to the general public this entire presentation as brilliant as it is  we need to simplify where it's even remotely possible to divert from one i can't think of the top of my head right now but from one area to another just you know a hundred fifty thousand there and just keep going and going and going and see what you come up with and you know that's it's hard for the public to do a line item evaluation because you can't see the whole onion you know i mean it's hard to to see what lies underneath so that's i mean this is very interesting and i am looking forward to some progress in this area and thank you very much thank you for that i think that's exactly our challenge is explaining this very very complicated thing to the public