president of the institute for individual and world peace founder of the heartfelt foundation and other organizations dedicated to improving people's lives john rogers a bestselling author and he has been teaching and conducting seminars for many years right after john rogers speaks we'll tell you how you can obtain more information about  last night i was thinking that i would start to impress everybody with my singular intellect and then i realized it was just singular i really couldn't do very much with that so i figured well i think again in this year i'm just going to enjoy myself hilariously like i always have i mean why not is there anything else really you do on this plan except have a good neutrality of consciousness we really don't know that it's where we have that because we tend to dream a very strange dream let me sort of see if i can do it in terms of this so it's called let's pretend let's pretend at some point some place some time which user starts out once upon a time but it's never once a once upon a time know it's never in it's always upon so we must live a live above all time restrictions to have once upon a time ok now we've set the geographical location and that's the very best i'll be able to do once upon a time god decided that he was bored now i guess that could be sort of hard to do but when you're singularly singular which god is  one visible i suppose not too much happens not too much really goes on especially that you don't know about and i suppose of some part of his gigantic body which is he may wait before he scratches just to see you want to happen so god decided that he would dream but to make the dream interesting he thought well i'll i'll dream many different dreams and my different dreams will be incorporated look like many different things and so in this dream i will dream that i am young that i'm that i'm a male that i'm a female that i'm a child that i'm of this that i'm of that and so god would go to sleep and i had all these dreams and whatever god want to dream about to this other form that he dreamed up the following that could handle so in his dream he would dream of all the most beautiful wonderful things and he would have and this went on for a long time and one day got to do i'm really bored with getting everything i want so what i think i'll do as i think i'll dream up a dream and then i'll forget what the dream was like well i'm happy and so i won't know and i'll be exciting and after all i deserve a little excitement i've been around a long time i mean if anybody is worthy of a certainly i am worthy of a little excitement so god said ok this dream will be the forgetful dream i will dream and dream i'll forget i'm dreaming and then i'll have these experiences these occasions then i'll check it out so god did that and he extended him self down with these forms and went to sleep and he had the dream and the thing a interesting is that he didn't put in some of them that they would wake up to a certain point that they just keep dreaming not knowing that they're really god having the dream and so some of them go through pain and some go through anguish and some of their dreams despair and some dream and terror and some dream and multiple children some dream and multiple deaths some dream and in terms of dying and living and dying and living and dying and living as in it's places these other things how exciting how alive but how painful and how gross you understand what we're talking about you don't have to have those the if you wake up the only thing you can wake up to wake up to is your self that so that is  god but we don't want to believe that because that's not part of our dream part of our dream you know well i like to do that but i've got my karma and that's part of your dream that's part of your dream however you know having karma you know i'll say well that's my karma like having the the tail wag the dog first of all the word means nothing just means action such as that is but let's say for instance we say well you know my karma or the things that happen are causing me to do what i'm doing now when i hear that i hear a lot as a matter of fact some was true only because people decide that's part of the trueness of the dream and the rest of us saying i don't buy that i don't i don't buy that story  you see we feel that because of our pair because of our past that's why we're you are what we are today because of our past that's what we are today but you can't explain a thing by going to the past to explain the present because as soon as you get to the present that's past so you can really only truly explain the present terms of the present why you do it because i wanted to why why was so you can't even explain the presence in terms of the presence because it's a dream all you can do is say well probably down the road you will do this because you've done that you're now doing this and you know that's  like the determining calculation point if you've done this and you go here than if i go here i'll intercept you sort of like a torpedo ships in world war the ship is going this way and i know it's going to certain phase and i do this i can intercept it over here except the ship would change course you're doing erratic things so you never knew where the ship was going according to its past unless they would just continue at that particular course not have any concern about anything a straight line the short distance between two points but it really doesn't exist because as soon as  define points we have to find an epic we have to find a time a place and time that does not exist just doesn't exist only if we declare it by definition when we get on a boat and we leave the pier and we're going away from it rather rapidly how do you know peter we have left wing see the wake of the bo we've seen where it came there's a trail there's a path well what does that really have to do with the boat where it is out the little bit further alcatel which pier you are at where you really can't you really can't because all that looks the same so you make up definitions you make up things that you all agreed to if you're this place you came from here and if you're this place you came from here and if you're this place you came from here but is that really so is that really so that that's that that is really quite true no it's an arbitrary definition isn't it we arbitrarily set up and then we agree to that and in that agreement we bind ourselves so we bind ourselves to our past by agreeing to that and that's our karma and we can say no i really don't agree to that because very frankly i don't know about that i was told that the very frankly i'm not too sure that so however that doesn't matter because i'm still going to keep on the course where i am now i cannot because i don't know where the ship came from the story where it's going now let me give you a little way of looking at this lot of people say my presence where i am now is because of my past ok i am here doing these things because of my karma all those things these x y z as it happened why i'm here now and i want to refute that for you by saying you're where you are now because your future your where you are now because of where you're going not where you've been and because you're where you're going your future is laying out to you the unfolding of your path into right now and that my friends is freedom that dissolves your karma namby pamby nonsense you just define it right out the window doesn't make it any less real sure if you look to your future and your state of presence instead of looking to your past as a reference point for your present behavior if you do that that's like going down the road looking in the rearview mirror while you're driving the car to see we began to see we're going on that's crazy now we got that one day fine and when you run into somebody they're going to claire you crazy and lock you up produce something so you better watch where you're going or get out of the car get off the freeway when you're going down the road you look where you're going but we've been taught through history and history can be rewritten at any point to change history right let me give it a let me give example if i give an example first ok thank you you know if we say the people told the priest the priest told the bell what is told what is the word told the people the priest the priest told the bell that joe harris died and that we're told it takes on different meanings when you get to the end so we have a whole different approach to it and i'm saying to you by time we get down to where we're going we will redefine where we have come from because we will then know what that is but you can't know what that is in the state of where you are except its present so life is from watch from maternity ward to mortuary that's life  between as a grown or last depending upon you but that's present let's do another one if we were going to the finder sphere of the sun  out there we could define a lot of different ways couldn't we we could define it in terms of the flame that would be the sphere of the sun however that's an arbitrary definition because we could also define it in terms of the heat the sphere of the sun as the heat but it's arbitrary because we could also define it in terms of light which would be harder to do because you're in it and you don't know what extension that light goes from there to there and that's what we're in that place as long as you're in the light that's all that matters it's when you reach the edge of that and you go to the darkness th and that history has been rewritten constantly in terms of that that reveals itself to you presently you may say that what a terrible thing happened to me yesterday yesterday yesterday  yesterday they say here's a million dollars for that thank you for yesterday yesterday as today as butyl yesterday i saw a beautiful million dollars today because of yesterday's terrible thing that today is to these blessings so we redefined always on the state of where we are in that moment always and that moment is constantly being redefined by the future unlocking itself to us as we move but there's no wake in the from the ship that tells you what's going on where it's been but a lot of people think the wake of the boats what not knowing that there's an energy inside of it that's pushing it causing that to appear so we look at ourself as cause and effect or the effect of our causes only if we say it only goes as far as from one to ten but that's not true at all it's going on as it goes on and so when we say what point is a person born when when does birth take  place when the semen first appeared in the father and the egg first appear in the mother is that when the birth of baby first took place or did the birth of baby really first take place when the mother and father were first born what was this event we set up these arbitrary boundary lines to beat ourself in the head for lack of progression or lack of revelation when there's no such thing there is only this epic from the big bang theory of the universe to the big bang theory of the universe on the other hand when it starts and when it ends and in between is this thing that's going on but a lot of people think that the epic because when you're born when you're dead not knowing that your grand plan your experiment didn't go for eighty years it went for eight hundred thousand lifetimes and you cannot declare your star and your definition and your end definition until you finished all that experiment and you're only someplace maybe in there you're just in so you've got to be careful what you pull to yourself to beat yourself in the head with oh look what you did to me last night last night it's not epic and you've now separated that from all beingness and you've not let it go through its action and it pound you in the head and there it's your karma  you could do or say last night i was in the favorite night in the world for me and if i watch what's coming down my future i won't do that again if i keep my eye on the future but we're far too often looking back last week and we bump into the future and we have another epic on our head that's the same as last saturday and the last that in the last hour did we say well why don't you turn around and look where you're going so you're not those things on your head every saturday  can i can i look at him can you yeah sure i just look at head i was looking of course we can always look at the child the child is no good beat the child well why a child isn't a better it's a product of it's parents be that the parents this is you can't do that test because look what our parents did thus they were neurotic also so go beat their parents and you can't do it backwards either well in that case then we'll be at some future child of this child and get down there high going to do that you understand there's no way to do that worship of fools and we play the game of who knows where it is and where it's hidden and how to uncover it how to do it we're redefining words again we're getting to that place all too much freedom we can redefine ourselves as often as we want to except somebody says that's been phony and if you agree to that definition you are phony and if you say very fine i accept that point of view that that in your mind is funny but to me it's creative genius and some people say i'll pay for that creative genius because you read all these books from all these points of views that are so diverse any different and so the one who sickles everybody the frog is broke but the creative genius has been called the fraud is a millionaire living free no karma but the other says that's phony and lives the karma phoney and the other lives the karma of creative genius and has the freedom if you're going to have karma you might as well have a rich there's no need to be poor and blame your karma there's no need for all that you redefined that state of being mature him when you read the fine that you don't look back because that's gone back to the dictionary again at this moment creation becomes new because actually when the creation banged forward it's still present because at that time it did it was present and still present and it is still doing its birthing birthing  let's look at that word a little bit but let's look at that word by looking it's another word ok if i double up my hair like this what do we call that is that permanent it's an ongoing process that you label as not ongoing process by calling a fist you understand if i do this to you what am i doing to you handing the story mommy jerry pushed me she says jerry quit pushing him he says i'm not pushing him him i'm going to punish you mommy jerry pushing me jerry i'm going to punish you for pushing him i'm not touching him i pushed him a singular event you people think is still going on i am not push pushing these are ongoing things when you light a candle what is that thing on the top called when you light the candle was the thing on the top called flame what is it doing flaming you understand that you take and lay the words against yourself incorrectly and live that as the gospel truth no wonder that doesn't go up and down your head the way you want to it's flaming that that is moving is moving and that that is not is not and you play the smart game of thinking that one thing is what it is and it does not that it is a can steam you a state of movement and so you lay blame for something that is supposed to be stationary he fist me meaning you keep it up as soon as we try to take anything in life and see it happen because you did this at that point we're lost another example for you ok since you're missing a lot of these or you'll get it when you get it supposing we say we have a fence and along comes a snake you've never seen a snake before oh my god what's there you see this thing that comes along and as it goes by a section goes through there that's a section and that keeps going there's another section other section another section other section along comes a tail much rattling you see my god look at that thing as being pushed from the rear obviously is that rattle that makes it go well what makes you think it isn't because there are other snakes that move the don't have rattles different types  you can't say that that head is that here is the head and this regard the center and the tail do you ever have a snake that's born with just the hair the tail develops later and the length you know you have a head in the tail snake that's born it is all present and then between there the segments you set up are part of this continuum and that's always been that way and it's always going to be that way you just got to get a big long snake four billion years long that has a head and a tail and someplace in between is your epic that you say it is because you define it that way but the snake doesn't know any better keep right on going we must observe correctly before we define delineate and lay the law down it's by far better to say i saw something go by here and i still doing it the wind blew by here today and it still blowing and it still blowing they try to think that we have one storm that we have another storm and then we have another storm so we've had five storms is the season we had one storm and it started millions of years ago and is still going on it's doing it in its timing but we will not let it do in its timing because we are smart and we can turn our words around and we  so we say the storm a storm a twenty two or emil it's like what makes the storm so different than all the others throw away your book here they come which one is all forty five thousand are coming in at one time down the line which one is emilie you see i've never bought my head i'm going out of here that's right why bother your head with that there's going to destroy you that you cannot really do that that you really can not and say hey look the the bottom shot of all this is those are storms and correctly her name she's not paying attention to you and she's going to be an epic in your life she will take your house over to the next county in little pieces that will be the year of the great storm i remember back in nineteen twenty oh ard the storms that was the year the great dust storms will go our so what about the past droughts we had all that was nothing compared to that epic we'll see the people that are that died in the drought and the ones that died in the drought it's all the same one they'll care for one hundred twenty was better or not i don't care dead dead or alive is alive and it doesn't matter how many times in the past you had your  unless you let that epic kill you as it killed your feelings because they were hurt or when you say right that was four thousand out of five thousand god will you please wake up at the end of five thousand  the sleeping and you wake up and say boy that was really exciting to find out nothing happened because it was a dream i was about how about all the surgeries on my body where your body well i dreamed it so yeah but in the dream so you know but it was really a nightmare so but but i was kill or you're dead now no so yeah but you don't understand you don't understand we've lived through it all along some lived through say hell how neat mother said hale and they all got through it at the same time levels just somewhere up here on top of time and others are down here in time and time can never go past enough fast enough when you're in it when you're not upon in time you're on time it was just by fast because you're upon it which means you are no longer caught in the bondage of your words are your definitions or your orientation towards history you're living free at that moment you're living free at that moment what's living free define it for yourself living free is i get to do anything i want to anytime i want to all right let's all use the same definition what happens we're going to allow soreheads in this  dream going to be a lot of bodies piled on top of each other in this dream that maybe better refined was living free we're living free is inside of me i'm free i'm not pushed around and i can still conform to all the rules and it doesn't bother me because i'm free and there i just choose to do it all and be free of all i do it you choose not to do it you've got to do it anyway so you're confined in your own bondage it's easy game so we do is just say it while if it's that easy i'll just define myself free to say find what's going on you say well i don't feel free what does it feel like to feel free well i feel like i did ten minutes ago see ten minutes ago i feel like i did last week  last week i feel like i did last incarnation on your great experiment is going on how many incarnations past that how many future ones until you are free you say well gee then if it's just arbitrary and believe me it's arbitrary i just will be them i'll be healthy what's that who cares what that is is just what i am right now at this moment i have a headache fine it's a healthy headache i have ca cancer what's going to happen it's going to outlive me the life of the body out live all the cancerous cells all the body turns to cancerous cells and you can live forever in your body because nothing can kill the cancer cells so i have got to do is live  you don't you fight it and what you fight comes upon you and you're stuck with it and you fight it and you're stuck with and you fight it and you're stuck with it as to say well here it is and you know there it is most people cancer oh my who decides that you do what cancer appears at this place in my life are you still there can i still be there know why it's moving on it's moving on what i do them want to just leave the cancer there move on what's it called spontaneous healing remission it happens all around you have done the bed one night at the tremendous fever and woke up the next morning and haven't got out of bed what about your business well what happened you just didn't take it with you it was no longer part of what you were living in it was part of what was past in its past but what happens you remember the temperatures in your like this year june i'm not going to have a temperature or show it comes june i got the temperature why those things when you have temperature i know you can't people say temperature is bad i say no it's good why get high enough to bring out the cancer however may bring out your brain cells at the same time who uses their brains anyway you don't use your brains to think w you use your brains to get the information from the cosmos down through and out use your brain to assimilate to the ridiculous formation through the hypothalamus through the sensory motor inputs down and move the body to the plan that's what you see if that weren't so why doesn't the baby get out of bed and say  all the cells or their birth are going to be they're going to get any more so there it is that ability to open to what is present and let it come through you as you in the greater greater form as the universal form and here's one to try out for size right but i think it was st paul in the bible and yet he said let the mind that is in jesus christ be in use that pretty close then if i let the mind that is in jesus christ be in me i'm god they'll never get to cross train because that's blasphemy and yet it says it and that book why don't you see that's what that my god i know that in india couple more you say i am god people standing all say graduation as you finally found has been a foregone conclusion for ever and this comes through you say watch your definitions because only jesus christ is the son of god then why did saint paul say have the same mind in you that is in jesus christ our christ jesus who's doing the playing games you say yes but that happened then we say wait wait wait wait you define the epic again you're separating yourself from all reality and all totality if we're looking at the road from here to san diego and we're down this low here san diego's two and a half hours away you get up thirty six thousand feet and look down how far san diego way look how far is los angeles away turn your head look the other way where are you i am suspended above that so therefore all that is below me by my definition by my definition i can see the beginning and the ending and be present all the time because that's what to do but we have said all but i'm down there in the car this body on that road and it takes me two hours time to go do that and so what does but have you ever had that feeling when you've been late to get someplace that takes thirty five minutes to get there and you were twenty five minutes late and you got there on time what's wrong with you you can't do that that can't be done but you did it you collapsed time no you can't collapse time you were upon time and time no longer had anything to do with you because it was not part of your reality it was part of your definition when you settle back down and looked at the watch you said i got here on time as opposed to here and it's eight and i had to leave the house at eight thirty get here and i left the house at sudden now why do we use that old cliche in literature write stories you never say all of a sudden why not that's the way it happens that's trite not if it happens that way  happens that way reality is not try it's on your head see it's presence and then we turn the person we say well you know you know and you can ask somebody what time this is what i knew before you asked but not you asked well you know it's like yes but you're in it and that is why it's so difficult to explain it you're in light that's why it's difficult to explain you're in life that's why it's difficult to explain it but there is nothing out there that says you got to explain it ok the message life is to be lived what does that mean it means on this level that you move your physical body around from point to point to point to point that indicates life that motion motion physical body is motion the other body the feeling body is not is called e motion eat motion physical body moves  motion body does not move it stays there how long can you stay depressed time what is it that moves the consciousness moves in and around that and that let you look at it as long as we're in it you would not be able to see it you can't see the top of the ocean when you're under forty feet you can think about it you can theorize about it you can define it you do everything you want to and you can remember it but you cannot in fact see it you cannot in fact deal with it you can only make believe that you are doing that you cannot and as soon as you say i can't do that you don't have to you don't have to and you don't have to soon just say i won't do that because it doesn't work that way the thing that we come down to is if we work it works if we work and it works we say well how about these things that happened to me that i didn't work i see like your hair's happening to you on your head that's happening to you you're not growing it that's happening to you so you know i'm growing it really how do you know what gives you indication as well after a while i look up there and it gets longer and i don't know inside you well i don't know i mean there really no indicators then what makes you think because there's no indicators these other things that it's just happening to you and that you are in fact not producing it just some things appear pretty slow in this aspect of cause and effect because it doesn't come in the cars that we set up to have happen when that happens we don't know why it happens because you said only because i do this can this appear and as i don't follow your directions when you get this i appeared whenever i felt like it whenever it happened it happened and that's on you and if you define as not being so little beach in the head twice and so it's not a thing like duck because that doesn't do it either as a temporary solution to being hit in the head the way to start getting hit in the head is to get out of there to get out of the we think in our smartness that we can duck and get away with it and we get away with it five times we say see now one am and there goes your head you say now what do you see i see well i see my body without a head on it because i'm down here looking at it you say well that's the state of the art it doesn't matter how many times you get away with it is that one that comes down on you that the balls up for y like i had been speeding drinking get away with it for a long time tonight they picked me up for drunk driving they took away my license they threw me in jail and i'm in there for six months my license gone for years they have what are your freebies how they count how does it feel good that you were drunk fifteen times driving down the road never got car do you feel real good about that they say why so your license is gone you can walk now for six months there's going to be all this was so free but all those others well they weren't free but some people say but i got away with that for fifteen times you see water screwball you think those are epics only take place at those times and they're over and they're not they continue and we are in a continuum but it's much nicer if we continue without looking back we don't become the effect of that we only become cause it's when we change that causing that moving and we become effecting we're going to show that we can do something with that instead of doing as we move when we do we do but that's nothing doing is that process of going on we say well i did it what else well that nothing else could i did it but that's fifteen years ago what are you doing now what i did that's enough no there must be the doing process continually problems because we went in to and we pulled it to us we do it by going into it it's automatic like having a sticky fingers you touch something  sticks like wow i didn't mean to should have touched what could i have done just and watch it and be sure the if you stick to something you stick to what you want to stick to what you want to stick to in terms of you not terms of it because when that happens then you have to go through all sorts of drastic measures to get over that and you don't want to go through that and yet we do that and then we tend to redefined our state of being based upon that but we can't do that because that's not where is our consciousness has been moving on and we define ourselves into last night sticky hands when we get together while we talk about last night last night last week my this then my all right fine i knowledge that you had your headache what does that do for my headache nothing nothing i've got to handle my headache now because it's now it's now if i care to handle that you know some people don't care to handle them i got a headache i'll work anyway why i always have a headache always h eadache always so forty two years later i've had a forty two year headache i remember who started i remember every day in between it's headache so what is so nice about that let's have a discussion well for his head wasn't hurting so bad i could talk to you i know but let's talk about anyways he just knew what i go through this headache you an ask me talk about anything other than my headache all right let's discuss your headache great i'm glad you chose to discuss my headache because that's what i'm going to do not with me you're not why you don't hear any answers because i'm no longer there so you turn around and discuss the headache they prove their point once again and reinforce that they have the supreme headache and they can maintain it at all cost even to making you look like a dummy until you say well i don't know what your headache has done very much for me i don't see what's really done anything for me now i know that i can't see what's really done too much for you except to draw to you some attention about something that has nothing to do with what we're doing except in your head and that's what always comes down to in the head the head game the game it's nice if it were the game with all of been gone a long long time ago but in the dream but doesn't matter what you think in the dream the dream continues on the bears after you're running all i want this bird to get me oh i want this bird to get me i think i'll jump up on the tree the tree disappears oh oh the bear is going to get me why if your thought was so good did you climb the tree and get out of there because i realize the barricade climb the tree to so there was no need to do that doesn't know what happens when you wake up that that the view find out that that didn't take place when you wake up from that you find out that didn't take place we're told takes place because we have ample ample proof and proof of what of whatever we agree upon well i'm not going to agree upon a thing you care agreed upon about yesterday because you're a dreamer and there's no way to know if somebody tells you how much is the story and how much was something there that could be verified by somebody else subjectively and that we call the truth i saw two but are you both suffering from the same type of delusions maybe both have part of your brain's missing and you don't know if you know it is quite true friends that we're not really built the same inside you know it's really quite true that some people close their hand one finger to time you see i can't says i do start to pull the others some people can do i'm one of the time because those tense are connectors are different and some people can close one finger and some have to close  but they are different if you don't want to take my word for go ask your local local topsy expert when they do the autopsy on the b books neurology books anatomy books you can see yeah those are really quite different really quite different so we have to define the norm within the standard deviation and the interesting thing is we're all a standard deviation that's a statistical thing so many points from the center when we get so many points from the center we say well that's close enough because we're all doing that and you all go down the same boat you all die so you see reckon reconciling yourself that we're all doing that is no way out nor is any type of excuse for anything i mean if this building falls on our head we say well we're all in the same room together it fell on your head this is coming down on you regardless well if i go we all go yeah but others may be in a more state of advancement to go higher when they go your dream may produce you back here again and more dreams and the other people woke up just at that moment but you didn't know that thinking well we all went down together were you people that went down with me here i am all by myself what happened to you were we in it together were there didn't we agree all our green was don't mean anything unless that agreement with with exactly what's going on in every place around this we can agree to a whole bunch of things to fester what's going on we're fools and if we can agree to disagree and still get and if we can agree to let things change just to get along if we can do all that then maybe the kingdom of heaven will appear as an outward manifestation and not what not is an inward fantasy a delusion to not do things because well i'm going to the kingdom it's nice if you indeed do go to the kingdom it is nice and if you don't have the kingdom come to you and if it doesn't  then it's maternity ward mortuary and what's happened in between another epic of nothing another definition of nothing why nothing we look at say what happened nothing well didn't you do something no i thought i was doing something but i wasn't i thought i thought but i didn't do and because i didn't do what i thought it never appeared and we often feel that because we have a clear thought about something a clear thought about something that that's it it is not we have that clear thought and it is clear and it is clear we will produce our bodies with it to manifest it we were do that just to have a clear thought is just to have a clear thought there is no more value it's like to have a bowel movement or have a bowel movement and it won't be the last one but how you move on these things not to sound but what does what does boil down to we do have a few things we can choose to do exactly what we're going to do because that's exactly what we're going to do what they were going to do i wasn't trusting them to do what i want them to do for i one second i was trusting me to do exactly what i was going to do because i was going to do it and i knew they were going to exactly what they're going to do because they're going to do it and i didn't matter if i knew what it was or i didn't know what it was it didn't make a bit of difference because that's what was going on most people are saying i trust you with my life you screwball no way you don't even handle your life you see so we redefine well i trust you here's my life here's my heart here's my kidneys blow you don't even handle your own i trust you to mess up your life because that's what you do i trust you to be ignorant because that's what you do why because i can see it and you trust yourself to do exactly what i do what's that you'll find out when i do it people say well will you be there next when i see you have come along soon they said you know i like to tell you i know but i know when i get up  there i do know then what to think ahead of time i think all sorts of things ahead of time i think what's on television was someplace else what's going on i do all sorts of things but those thoughts don't do one thing you say yes but you know you've always until i found out it really didn't matter that that spiritual presence was here anyway so now you're getting it it's there anyway but you can turn and define it and move to it and have that reality of it or you can undo you find it and move away from it and color something else we could psychologically define everything we've done in psychological terms accurately but would that be what's going on because we can define in terms of psychology we can define in terms of spirit to that's what's going on does that mean that's what's going on no but that's what we've used to define it and that definition keeps holding and holding and holding and john rogers closing words work which means the blessings already are the blessings the ideas and the concepts which you've heard just a small part of the abundance of material john roger has shared with us over the years if you would like a free book by john roger journey of a soul call this number one eight hundred eight nine nine two six six five you can send e mail to service desk at m s i e dot au argy or write to that which is post office box five one three nine three five los angeles california zip code nine zero zero five one dash one nine three five this has been that which is with john roger thanks for joining us