outrage israel remains severe twenty two days pounding caged and starred palestinians in gaza resembles many say war crimes united states is seattle campaign for gazan american friends service committee and jewish voice for peace this cold cough turns eighteen soon it's a pleasure to welcome activists for peace and justice more politics welcome to you thank you thank you thank you so much for having me here i really appreciate the work you do do with you've campaign lifelong for peace and justice and human rights what are palestinians experience and from israel palestinians in gaza are experiencing from israel enormous brutality racism and morality illegal activity and i think an effort to really i think a massacre and i think that it's beginning to approach almost genocidal proportions so the argument that it was self defense really just simply isn't true israel like the united states is very good at turning language to mean precisely the opposite of what it means i think that self defense every country is entitled to defend itself from attack the emperor need him for personality i know that's a hard word and i'm not sure i'm saying it right makes this so extreme as to almost make it laughable that israel can claim self have been living under this terrible kind of repression maybe not to the same extreme death for sixty years a million and a half gazans were driven by dispossession to the gaza strip in one thousand forty eight and have lived under occupation since one thousand nine hundred sixty seven and it has not been an easy occupation israel has really committed i think serious crimes that are violations of human rights and international law for all of the years of occupation have chosen particularly i think to make it difficult for gazans and it has gotten particularly bad since the election of hamas the most democratically carried out election in the middle east according to all the  observers not to israel's liking no to the united states the outcome was simply not what we expected a democratic election to bring and as a result since that election in two thousand and five israel has imposed on  the most extreme restrictions it has been locked up as if it were a prison it has been denied entrance of any kind of humanitarian aid fuel water food medicine there is no there is no policy a state policy of existence i think that's a terrible policy a potential extinction of a people in their right to live well you know the food insecurity years it's been called in your store vision has been generals who have said these are snakes in the snake pit and need to be exterminated they will get in the way of the possibility of israel achieving its goals are you how do you how does it strike you that the process itself has been barred from reporting on conflict because israel wants no witness i think that's exactly why the press has been barred i think the press itself is extremely unhappy about having been barred  this whole thing backfire on israel it already has begun to you see an extraordinary change in public opinion all over the world and in public opinion here and i think most particularly you see a much larger outpouring  at least questioning in the jewish community in the united states not in the traditional jewish organizations but in the people themselves and when you say that you can speak from identification as a jew all your life  one of the liberal traditions of peace and justice that is the tradition that has certainly informed me all of my life it's something i learned very very early on as a child that the most important value in judaism is to struggle against impress the such a rich tradition of doing that so rich so rich and i think i look now at what is happening and i wonder where has that commitment to justice gone how can we have forgotten so quickly how can we be committing the kinds of atrocities that are going on do you think american jews are buying a demonization of moss and regular palestinians gazans you know to their children yes i think i think people all over the world have bought into it and i think israelis have bought into it and i think since nine eleven the ability to buy into it has become easier because just like what happened here with iraq our ability to buy into iraq and the atrocities we committed there was not dissimilar to what is happening here in the name of fighting terrorism anything goes and if we label and demonize people and call them terrorists or potential terrorists then whatever we do to them becomes justified america have strongly been an ally of israel since one nine hundred sixty seven strangely enough it was not before that when they didn't see the strength of israel they didn't really care much about israel before nine hundred sixty seven in the acquisition of the territory i think this is much more political than it is anything else but what it has done is to really use the most terrible misinformation the most terrible dissemination of lies in israel i think they really manipulated the whole cost to continue the sense of  of jews in a most cynical fashion in a most cynical fashion and i think the reason they don't want press reporting on what's happening is that it's in defiance of basic jewish values and in defiance a pack driven i think it's almost become habit in the american congress to be unwilling as it has been in the american larger community to be unwilling to criticize israel because for the congress it may mean the impact   it's almost that now and by all also think that what it's done and i think the response of our two senators to protests against their vote on that resolution which was to support it is a good example of how we've simply forgotten the palestinian people we only have demonized the terrorists in palestine and the danger to israel we have to look the destruction of gaza really doesn't do anything for israel's long term it doesn't do anything for israel long term it's certainly doesn't do anything for american jury long term it's creating the kind of backlash i think across the world and even here or are you beginning to see a lot of  divide within the american jewish community over i'm beginning to see a divide and it's an amazing divide and it's an exciting divide particularly among young jews we've seen an outpouring of jewish support all over the country we've seen the beginning of jewish organizations like the one type of long to the national that represent a very strong voice there's been the beginning of some real questioning and some real ability to challenge the policies of israel as they work to support even the safety and continuation of the country of israel i mean i would say j street for example which is a new jewish lobby set up to try to try to pose  or raise serious questions about israel what israel is doing brit's that it which speaks very strongly out of the love for israel this is not good for israel this is extremely harmful for israel i don't do you don't like to air your dirty linen in public you don't like to feed what you think might become anti semitism maybe i'm being generous i think but maybe that's what it's all about i can't understand it it seems to me ey're terrified of their guilt really and i will say to them as i would say to jews you know our spiritual teachers have taught us that we're about our values are about fighting for justice fighting against that nobody has suffered as much as the jews ever and to even begin to make those parallels is seen as a real horrible thing to do however i think it's important to make true that in order to struggle against anti semitism it is important to fight it not to take all of the jews and create a separate state or homeland for them and separate them from their larger culture which israel the i think that certainly has been manipulated to determine the ideology of the most religious jews and that certainly is the issue that you see in the most extreme settlers in israel and i think you saw it you see it here in new york and you see it where there are a large right wing jewish conservative groups who are very very traditional and are very fundamentalist you see it in any fundamentalist aspect of any religion and actually you have to throw into the mix now is really status i think the issue is that the brand of zionism that israel chose to follow which was the capital zionism which was the most right wing sign is the most extreme times right and a lot of jews may not know that the litanies father was one of the people who bombed the king david hotel and killed eighty people define terrorism but one thing that traditions of nationalism if you demonize an enemy you can do anything to him and if you do it in the interest of the security of the state it's an upside down concept that people have been really conditioned to buy and understand and th blinds them to exactly what you're talking about how does the jewish community federation jewish organizations so much power have become the spokespeople to a large extent for the jewish community by virtue of having been incredibly successful in projecting a message that really manipulates victimization and fear and where w said that's the piece j street which is the new lobby will talk about the horrors that israel is committing and they will say this is not in the best interest of israel if you love israel then you really need to speak out that's increasing that's increasing enormously  problem i think could be resolved by israel abiding by international human rights by withdrawing to its internationally recognized boundaries of nine hundred sixty seven which is the green line around the west bank which would make it a country that it appears to international law which it currently does not really grant the palestinians the right to self determination that is determined by them which includes electing people they choose to represent them such as hamas such as hamas which which includes not as an occupying power israel it's also a terrible violation of international law because they are obliged to take care of the people they occupy and clearly what they're doing and it's a tremendous violation of that certainly the focus has been on american responsible that's a harder one almost i don't know that i know why but i think it is people have given all kinds of psychological reasons for why americans are internalised killed because of what's happening in israel most american jews have never been to israel you need to know that most american jews have never been to israel so maybe you've identified more strongly because of the people that argue certainly american jews  think the solution is going to have to be a political one and i think that this country is going to to have in a way that does not support but you have to remember that it's our dollars and our weapons of destruction that are being used in israel to carry out what it's doing in gaza f sixteen s and apaches come from us billions of dollars of aid go every year we just actually i found out for the first time stop the shipment of arms to israel that was on the water just last week because the greeks refused to let it go through their port so we're sending arms to israel all the time to do what they're doing and we totally totally condone their quote right to self defense one of the israeli writers history of the struggle but he said this is not an eye for an eye this is an eye for an eyelash and i think that the fact that americans keep speaking only in terms of israel's right to self defense and as our senators did the right of israeli children in southern israel to be free of the trauma of rockets dropping without once mentioning and this was just last week when hundreds of palestinian children have been killed let alone the years that they have been killed since one thousand and forty eight sixty seven not one mention not one mention of what the trauma was for palestinian children the u n has yes they do they they really they want to absolutely make them feel as if they are not able to be a real people and if they're going to stay there they're going to stay there as quiet victims of whatever israel and i don't know and i think it was very clear that they were going to end this war before the inauguration i think that's true i don't know what that means i don't know what the policy will be i think the hope is that it will change but it will take such a drastic change in this country to understand that our unconditional support of israel is not in the best interests of israel jews or anyone in the  synagogues i know what anti semitism is i have never been as frightened as a jew as i am now about what will happen in the rise of anti semitism around the world and what it will mean conflict i think obama certainly has a strong tie to the struggles that people were in the civil rights movement i don't know that he won't get caught up like all politicians do in the way things work here i don't i want to hope i think that's an interesting thing because i think that is beginning to develop even in the more radical jewish community here we've been terrified of even bringing up the issue divestment and i see movements beginning all over the world the british academics the british jewish academics have been amazing i don't know if you worldwide perspective and jewish groups who are doing the same thing then i think the possibility of some real international action could have an impact i think it's the only way i think women in this country jewish women and i know many who feel the same way you are and others should be standing in front of stores that carry products from israel that we know come from the settlements that matter misrule itself and say we will not shop here as long as you continue to do that and i think i talk women all the time now who are saying yes we should be out there doing that and i really want to remind them that the basic value of judaism is to fight against oppression no matter where it comes from and i would like to maybe end up by saying remind them that like the kids who are in hebron who did breaking the silence after they got out have to say all the time what is happening here is israel is destroying the soul of youth and its just trying its own soul and we as jews i think in this country have to be if we care about israel really remind them that they are destroying themselves peace is really going to come when americans but especially american jews find their voice reconnect with human human rights human values with justice and with peace and