right anyway so to get he's going to get support he wants to get a feed knows how to work where you get money and stuff foundations and stuff like that so he's going to try and get some support for this this is my son that's what i thought yeah he's he knows this business yeah and he's he's very successful but it's in a thing where he's a social worker because he's basically a  commute but he with the company that got started there was a woman but he's number two and the real one behind it and it's a large organization not quite a large organization  that gets money to poor people but he gets a real salary you know like upper middle class are you ready now you're going to tell me when five yeah welcome welcome very much a conversation a pleasure welcome to the program a dear friend of mine from about a one thousand years i think it's been about a one thousand years in the known each other he's a newcomer to television about forty five or fifty years  teleporter that's paul's flat because well known to one and all in new york city as a pioneer of enter printer i know of actual network development with the television industry as a group as a gestated and grew really d geographically correct where world of the world and if i should say he's a good news person he believes in let's  a broadcaster yes the stagehands yeah electronic shop and so on and it was really a heyday for c b s and we have just pumped out the shows right all day long and then great shows and then a historic an effect on the society i mean it was a regular definer of the time yeah right or yeah we came back we were there for a few years or so i came back to new york and worked on some more shows and c b s down a soap opera right dan so act that was a wonder if i got a couple years with that then they decided to cancel it make young and restless which was another one of their shows into an hour and i actually went out to channel thirteen you know what were you series and still is programming very proud about that went right and then i spent two years as as a production manager sort of an executive on that program called the brain series which was i remember and ten parts long series here one of those i would thank you for that there was a major here yeah i was a great one yeah and education to get through all those years because you had so many years to talk about yeah right right right i did some more shows over there and and over the time in the period you know what i'm saying why did know a lot about the knowing what is that process is that a television no more do you know what the actual billboards actually i don't know out about because i've rented them and i will say right here right now we're get we're going to have one for our peace day  say as a peacenik as a hippie i'm not a hippie president of the class i will wingtips and i'm very conservative kind of a guy not right now but i'm not i never worse i don't even go to protests i don't like protests i'm afraid to someone's going to get hurt at a protest that's not my way my way for me as i created a broadcast i even use i have been using the media the media as my message play and i'm promoting positive life affirming content master's in communication because i wanted the t v business because i thought that it was very powerful but they actually this school the communications over there taught me how powerful the media is and how people you know trusted and believed in it even though the fact is the opinion of the management of the media that we're talking about and if you go down to the newseum in washington d c you can see seventy front pages of the same story and you going to get a little different perspective on each on the same exact to what you're you know there is no opposed i think the thing is is that we just need to understand that newspapers and all forms of media television and web and so on is an opinion of some of the producers some of the siding on what's going to be even even when you do with live you got a camera i can put a camera on you this way and i can put a camera on this way you might be smiling at me this way but your smile might look like a frown this way and depends on what the director decides to know lecture i did i couldn't get a a by going we used to go he would sit in a room with all these people up in toronto we go every month every year we go every year and he would be in a rocking chair talking about james joyce or something like that but it was all been putting it out for a long time and there are people put on there's a lot of people interested in the united nations for peace and i'll lot of people and there's names but i can't remember them all as stein's codes involved and other people there was un peace organization gers yeah and i used to be along to one of those i think for peace and everything go to the meetings and they would have these yeah right because i guess i'm for that too you know i have been but i by way of measuring the status of the peace movement in the world i mean what were the rating or how do we rate and whether how piece is doing is as an issue well as an issue i think these with being quiet on your own you know you know i ask people what's good news for them for our good news planet and then i ask them these are two questions then i ask what is peace mean to you what does it take for a person do you think on a large scale that what seven billion heading for ten i guess right that's where we break and we've been here a couple one hundred thousand years and we're going and we had that thing a one million people in central park where was helen caldicott against the bomb you know and avenue and everything but anyway what's the status of peace how do we measure it and what sea is it you say war and peace there's war and then peace but then is a larger concept in certain sense and what's the prospect for peace and what are the trending that could make for do we have an understanding scientifically or even just artistic barriers being what it is that makes for various dimensions the various populations of the world and the people that make up those populations of the world nations or whatever you that that we could make the measurement of peace to toward the universe what makes people able to feel peaceful you have spiritual things where they can ignore you could have people being slaughtered right in front of them and they can still be peaceful or you have some relationship to the realities of the world and the trends within the realities of material world food water you know children not starving to death and things like that what's the overall prospects and it turned into tendencies that might be leading toward a world of peace rather than just peace for a few people who are in the the lounge for the leaders  yacht spaceship earth if you understand what i mean a few people have the material ability to feel peaceful what the percentages what are the trends there and is there any way keeping track of it are the conditions becoming easier for greater numbers of people to be able to be of a peaceful demeanor in their own personal life that could make for a peaceful world writ large if you understand who's keeping track of that right i think it's i think i don't know exactly how old i think it's a very good question and great for somebody to take on that research project and come up with the questions and the doubt i thought but i believe that i know i haven't even though i like research and i've done research with the multicultural communities i would love almost petitioned the u n to consider a new resolution so they they did a new resolution which i say inspired the u n to take it on a little more seriously in two thousand and two so since two thousand and two which is when we've been doing the central park event where you do not instant oh yeah long time and and i see well from my perspective and i see good news broadcasts and for the kinds of people that are coming to us you know on all the walks of life of what peace could mean ok i would rather send them my show is health so just on the health side alone if you're healthy you're more than likely going to be peaceful and on the people taking care of the people that are starving and take care of the people that are the best of violence or you know all the concerns that that don't make life peaceful i see i'm inundated i thought people i'm stressed from so much good news in the world because i'm in a position where people are wanting to share the good of my next door neighbor and so on and so for that i could do it that i'm sure well for me i could do a one billion shows and that so that is a if what if we're willing to say that the world is good and therefore willing to say this one i don't know why people can blurted out and scream it out the world is peaceful the majority of the world is peaceful  so and nobody can tell me any different because there's not that many people really fighting and killing there are people there are serious concerns we wish they wouldn't do it but if you put the number seven billion out there how many are really with guns and shooting are raping or are are just doing bad it's a small and richly havens told me his number was ten percent ten percent what i don't come percent out of humanity ten percent of many this some of that adam up we don't have seven hundred million people fighting in this world that means ninety percent of the world peace well i'm not fighting are not well that's good enough for me for me that's  nine hundred what has been the trend i own fortunately don't know the i know i know i'm not it not asking for a different i'm just saying for a guess well if you have things like yes i will let my guess my question is do you think things there was a through to so you're comparing it let's say let's go back to the i don't know of the year one thousand or something one hundred year journey is it getting better the likelihood or st of all is there a connection between justice in the fullest sense of the word and peace or not or what makes for peace will attitude on the part of an individual or group and what's the relationship between whatever that is and the material world not just the male praying to god or something like that or do you that you could you could put up with a lot by just having some god you could say it's all in the hands of handing it over to them or something but the material world the money world the world of having the means for having the material life that is satisfying or safe for you and the kids and all that kind of stuff was the trend is it getting  better my answer which i have shared many times and i'm thinking now do i feel way that i still feel that i should share that thought is that things are still the same as when we were in the ca there was always a bully and there was always some people that were afraid of the bully and it was some people that just you know were just plain old nice it was always a bully i think what maybe it's getting better on has the potential to get better because of more mass communications because when we were in the cave that just was the came people that would know you know everybody that in that community wouldn't know to kether community in the cave fifty miles away more than likely but yeah whatever now the so i am going to be safe from our communications background plus years that the potential of understanding the kindness him of man can be seen more now than ever more to more eyes and more people than the whole world you know through the now i'm actually there's the phone in my pocket is the is one of the biggest ones you emphasis of the good in the world and if we do that if we as we continue to do that because people do continue to do that yeah we'll you will be closer to  something that's one thing but if you have an ability like we have an ability i measured and there's human and things like that we have an ability technologically in order to take care of everybody but no we have that ability then terms of the abstract technological augmentation and be able to provide for the world population we could be doing that but we're not correct we're not doing it we're not done and we're still tied into thinking scarcity that the strong will rule over the weak as has been the case since roman from everywhere else there's always a few people sitting on golden plates up in the castle in the people wallowing around in the mud and lady lady lady seeing their kids starving to death and that's been the history of the world and it still applies and we do not take advantage or we do not realize that there's a new change if there is one to make sound would disagree with it it says i don't think the peace is been there i think the peace is yet to become in a in a collective way and the collective way i agree with you because the mindset isn't that the world is peaceful the meek now i know it hasn't been peaceful it's been warring or the strong ruling over the week the whole avoid history you're trying to put it put tina on all of history it seems to me it's always been good everything's prai and everything's good and everything's taken care of and be just say peace sing peace and everything will be alright every i'm trying to be a bit of a devil's advocate here no what i'm saying harrow that is is that if we if we have a one hundred percent and use one hundred percent as the as our barometer here know because if you just even total up how many people are fighting on planet earth right now but see if you think about peace there's more levels to my yeah i might not be fighting but there's some guy might be punching his wife ok yeah that as a given we've got a capability of providing housing providing water we've provided everything for all the population of the world that we've never had you couldn't do that i had a thing  of thing i'm going to take a minute i saw a program on television brought it up a couple times and tried to bring up is like a metaphor for the human condition maybe that's wrong to try and find metaphors all over the place that includes a whole that's a problem with me trying to i don't have a or is it great when i know the ending to the whole process you know but they had a program on television it was on television and it was on one of the good and  they have good stuff on public television channel thirteen they had one and it was about it's got a lesson it was about edwardian england and they had this thing in their living in the manner of those you have a few people and the class consciousness in england is so thick you could eat cut it with a little spooner's on the you know the last and it was in a few people in the manor house right and then they had built in architectur to the manor house these walls behind the walls it was like in the walls big walls they had spiral staircases that the servants who had to serve them would go up the thing to do it so they wouldn't be b b you know mess up the environment that's going to give upset to the lloyd's that had everything it was very much and they had the people and they had it with their thing work and for some reason i may have it wrong but they had to carry buckets of water water and particularly warmish water up these spiral stairs and the dam buckets rate forty pounds i could hardly get forty pounds off the ground and to carry them but warm bath is able to be provided to every let's say just that much of the civilized world everybody has a tap you turn it's good water and the other one brings warm water you can have a bath everybody birch if you can have a bath this some sort of we've made progress in being able to bring that one aspect of a comfortable life awards bash is important to me particularly in the winter and you can bring it to everybody now rather than just to the few you know it's always been a queue in the castle having everything and everybody else wallowing around in the mud of inadequate capability to provide for anything other than a few scarcity except for a few and it still hol adequate to what the need is of we're going to talk about liberating in a material way the population of the world which has never been available to us for two hundred thousand years it was never enough well a now or maybe getting to where through technology would be able to have a so everybody could be yet rather than at the get go to understand what i'm saying i understand her but we don't do it well we do we still  that for wonder when somebody else says to lose you've got to keep them scurrying and scared and all the rest of the things that throw them out of their own house make them be slaves wage slaves and all of the like that they've got to keep them hopping and under the thumb of the people on all the while it's still a very unjust world across the world and even in united states of america in the developed world so i mean maybe i  along to these well known peace and love songs with the words on the bottom of the screen i st heard that some little kid you know brings a gun into school and then you start hearing all these problems i was school where there's been twenty four murders since january one in my and then they introduce this technique where the student can dive with them and then live in that inner happiness in her intelligence in her creativity and loud and they see the problems start when kids learn about self esteem it helps them throughout the day and in their lives encouraging that that's there and everything there's been these spiritual traditions that have been there to bring solace to humanity two hundred years we've been on the planet and there must have been a need for solace in those all the ten thousand generations and we're at a time now of a generation and one of the things you're talking about is the information in terms of the information technology and the engine occasional capability of it raising consciousness to what the realities are could be are just vastly expanded but i wonder if you notice i don't know if you have or not i think the thing that brings a sense of surety to most people given our experience is to have a good bank account i think the thing that brings a sense of security more than needed anything else is money and that the the income distribution is absolutely ridiculous the obscured to just a few on the real scale and then more differently than that if it could you see the be proved brought all this great capability and so forth it's now transmogrifying into robotics do you see that it's coming light that light years now is transmogrifying into robotics and the world is now confronted with the fact that we're going to have a productive process that is extended of all our capability despite what we might wan hold on to the work ethic and these kind of things that we've used to sell you know for people to get that is its strength it's its undercutting and will be undercutting the human  human contribution through what they call labor to the productive process that's the major way in which money has gotten to the masses is by being either a slave or a wage slave or a undercut the labor theory of value which is informed the whole economic process by which you keep wages and labor and the productive import of human beings to the productive process is going to be under and it's going to not then you're not going to have a way of people being able to clear the market of warm water and freedom from food shortages or any of the things that money brings is the money that brings those things to the population and the means by which we would be doing that is being undercut by our own technological success and one last little thing to make us not to have the weapons systems now i've seen modeling the weapon system unlike as recently as the nd world war in europe against fascism they've now reached a point particularly with the trident submarine fleets of the united states of america they've reached a point where destructive side the things that are going to undercut the means by which will be able to distribute real buying real security to the masses of the people that don't have that now on a world scale are being under technological success and the danger of setting that off so we live in a time of an quality unqualified cave at the same time we have a capability technological capability of providing for everybody but we won't do it because we have to hold on to the systems by which the slavery has held for two hundred thousand years and we're not we're not able to think about it the leadership is not able to think about ways of getting effective buying power into the hands of the masses of the people to get the things that can be produced in a positive way a lack leadership in terms of a little extra level and makes me very very worried that the odds are we're probably going to maybe entropy rather than also liberate this brother rather than celebrating a world where everybody is liberated and it's very real sense just as the people who have been at the top have been able to be but we're at a time of qualitative transformation and we lack the leadership of how we're going to do it or affect people who are able to affect that rather than just live with the old outdated systems that are in place another thing that robert francis gives me ok well ok you get with the hug a planet or the bestowed upon you yeah have an alternate way we're going to form capital i agree and the ownership of the technological means of production which are going to limit meet the labor input that's coming  only labor wage slavery is the way we're going to distribute some little buying power to people so there was the one hand there's a lack of leadership there's a lack of effective understanding at the lead intellectual leadership level sticking with the hope and i'm not the only one because as john lennon said there's millions of people that are you know imagine that are down are believing in that and i think it's much healthier to believe that way anyway that that we are going to resolve these i'll call them even inequities ok all of our brothers and our sisters there's it's definitely not a planned organize play mother earth with the with the naked apes and the liberated mass of liberated one hundred trillion cells and human organism every individual cell has a meaning of its own it's all connected into a system that operates as a system and if we get a liberated humanity humanity that will center just actually where it connect is to the universe at a level transcendent to what we've been and we're in that time now and we don't face it we still reify the old outdated institutions of two hundred thousand years i'd there are outdated that's a problem because we don't have the leadership of how we're going to make a transformation well you know this shows the young it's resonating be there for us to do we're going to be ok well ok we're going to we're go communication they're already the places are already the bids are already out the thing is in it then it's going to undercut the labor theory of value the robots are going to take over the productive process you're going to need they don't management people that's how they get their salaries and their concern their their ability to feel i have read everybody is made to feel like i have not so do we go to a world socialist set i don't think a socialist a could be a capitalist and everybody should have a piece of the action as a way of getting they're going to have to distribute they're going to form capital where pete and says it all being one percent owning everything one percent of the population own something like half the population of the world or well sixteen people old pop in the wealth of the world a proper world a half the population of the world absurd absurd it's worse than the the feudal order and that's we take it is an accepted situation in which our politics are going to work out we're deep trouble but one of the troubles we really have we're running out of time for television programs now that's a real problem paul has been so good to see you and i take it with you