welcome step my crisis i'm your host vivian gas far and here with us today we have sergeant fred williams he started his lifelong dedication of service as a marine veteran he has been a law enforcement officer for twenty three years thank you so much for coming here today and sharing with us your knowledge and your expertise in taking time out if you're really busy central helping everyone else it's my pleasure thank you and rick like to cover some topics today that are very important to everyone who's a parent ok unfortunately it's been on the news too much and it's unfortunate and very tragically too many times can you talk to us a little bit about cyber bullying well the traditional bully you think of the bully who comes on the playground shakes you down for your lunch money or you know threatens you tells you you're wearing an ugly shirt and makes everybody else laugh at you and you feel bad it's in person it's right there it happens and then it's over cyber bullying is the same outcome you still feel belittled you feel out of control you feel bad ok but cyber bullying occurs from the computer or from the phone a text and email a facebook post or any social media post and sometimes these posts come from people you don't know which makes them even more depressing in a lot of cases for the victim sort of these children just feeling like they have self esteem issues that they actually pay attention to what's being sent to them because they're just words on a screen vergara list of if it's their laptop or several cases high profile cases that have been in the news recently a few here in new jersey unfortunately where cyberbullying was a key part of what went into the depression of this poor individual to make them commit suicide it's one of the types of things that builds up over a period of time it's not something like somebody calls you a bad name one time and you feel so bad that you're going to be depressed cyber bullying like any other type of consistent harassment it gets bigger and bigger exponentially as it moves on and for a child or a preteen where some of these moments are all that is really on their mind and if they have a sort of depression anyway that's going to be very much magnified in their mind and what do you think makes someone the well the anonymous usually the perpetrator of this i'm rolling why are they doing this have you ever talked to the kids who are doing it have had the opportunity to do that sure some some kids don't get me wrong a lot of the kids do know who this person is in the cases of people they don't know they may have three friends who say something to them that is is be a little into them and the next thing you know friends of friends may see that in certain social media feeds and may say something and the victim may not know those those persons that are now involved in it in either case the outcome that happens is this person really does no where to turn for the moment they're experiencing this and it's not like they can turn to a friend at school and say you know did you see what he did or they can talk about it sometimes they don't want to tell their parents because it's like well my mom might say i have to get off facebook if i if i tell her that this is happening to me first thing she's going to tell me is well you can't have facebook anymore ok they don't think things through you know they're being victimized they are could be suffering from a depression a depressive state they could already be feeling like nobody's going to listen to them so that makes it all that much more difficult to cope with what's happening have the police at all gotten involved because i mean is this considered a crime if someone is doing something to taunt or bully just despite the fact that it's not even personal lawyer is a crime it is considered harassment ok which is not a very serious crime mind you but if there are threats made you know if there's a threat that says hey you know i've i'm going to if i see you i'm going to i'm going to be two up so bad or if you wear that shirt again or if you talk to that you talk to my girlfriend again i'm going to do this or you know if there's a threat a viable threat to hurt this person whether it's with a weapon or with this or anything else like that that is a more serious form of harassment and if it can be proven that this person has the means to carry that threat out then it can be considered a terroristic threat what about of someone who is doing the perpetrators doing this to you know the cyber blame the bully themselves if they're not saying i'll hurt you but if they're intimidated by saying why don't you hurt yourself is not the same thing it's very much the same thing because now you're attacking a victim who could have be suffering from some sort of depression or other mental health aspect that is going to make them take that to hear ok is going to add to their anger ok so if you're try to get them the form an opinion that they need to hurt themselves that is certainly something that would be considered by any prosecutor as to the prosecutor billeted of that crime as to whether they can get a conviction for that so it is that fall under harassment intimidation because if they're not saying i'm not sure what kind of crime that is because if you're not saying that i'm going to hurt you because of course the unfortunately the few cases of suicide we've heard recently at least that that hit the news that i've heard about they're saying why don't you kill yourself you're worth nothing and then they drill that can still that can still like so that's going to be up to the prosecutor and the police the police are going to have to obtain the evidence that can support the heavier charge ok if there's evidence to say that this person's actions of hurting themselves is a direct result of what this  held culpable if that's something that a prosecutor can prove in court and that the police have collected that evidence that can support that they can be charged with it and hopefully convicted ok well what if you find out for whatever through whatever means that your child is the bully and what do they do to the person who is the ball in that case well in a lot of cases i've seen parents who don't want to accept the fact that their child is being the bully and i've also seen parents who have said who have been so shocked and surprised that they made it their business to make sure that their child got the appropriate help to deal with the feelings of wanting to control somebody or find out what it is that is making them bully this person so i've seen both and the thing you have to remember is the bully is just as much a victim as the victim is sometimes sometimes the bully comes from a household where that behavior may be something that they see all the time in their own parents or in their own siblings so they could be acting now in a way that they're just kind of carrying forward what they've already seen most of their lives at home and to them they may not even recognize the fact that  what i'm doing could be hurtful to someone i'm just doing what you know happens to me all the time so so you think that when they're doing these bullying actions they don't realize that they're doing something that could be a pulling action sending these text messages they're i mean they may be thinking that it makes them feel good from and that hey i have power over someone else but they realize it's a crime i mean sometimes people could just be thinking you know i'm going to say this and they know it's hurtful but to them it's like it's a joke they should have been able to take it and but everybody you can't count on the fact that everybody is going to either see the humor in your sarcasm or shake off what you're telling them as as nothing because because it doesn't mean that much to you ok and then sometimes there are the actual people who want to hurt somebody with the words they say so i mean that's something you have to look you have to look at the totality of circumstances the big picture of what's going on and figure out how it applies to any any type of a school age young adult i would say college age or below peer pressure is very important how you fit in your your social group is very important particularly if you're a graduating high school senior and now you're going to a new college you go off to college or university you don't know anybody ok maybe one or two people if you're lucky and now you have to get into this whole new social dynamic too you don't understand and get into the things that are going on around you and and be successful at it so during those periods of trying to get trying to adapt to that people are very susceptible to things like that a click can form you may want to be in that click sudden some people in that clip find things about you they don't like and now they're harping on that and that's hurtful to a person what's the youngest age range that you've seen boy you've heard of the youngest kids in elementary school  a lot of times kids who are just getting into social media for the first time may say things do things that they really don't understand themselves how they could be hurtful or there's misinterpretation misinterpretation ok somebody could say something and if you and i are talking face to face you see my face you see my gestures you see exactly what i mean as i'm saying the words that i'm speaking but in a text message or on a post if a person is not using them o something else to to do that to take the place of that you can very easily misconstrue what you're reading ok you can very easily think that now what's happening to me is is this this is awful why would they say that and it could be as bad as what the bully wanted or couldn't be as bad but you don't know vast majority of these cases are not ending up tragically because there's so many more what makes the news is what's tragic right which is never even happen but you know so but it can still affect and dump most likely does affect the victims mentality how they feel about themselves how they performance school there's so many different aspects and how it affects or you know maybe they become interviewed what have you seen have been the effects of being in some of the effects you know introverted in being it becoming introverted the kid may already be an introvert and that just makes them withdraw even more you may have a child who's  trying to break out maybe they just moved in the neighborhood maybe they're just trying to make new friends ok mick and all of a sudden now something could happen where someone may speak some words to them or say something to them or you know like i said earlier a click of form and now this kid is feeling like what i even bother you know what why bother to do that you know that they don't care and then other other kids are very resilient it's like oh these guys over here don't like me all right i don't  went over here and we said we knew how we could teach a kid to be resilient because that's obviously the better way to go if you don't like what someone saying or doing find someone else is going to be kinder and more willing to become friendly and get along well i agree but not all not all kids have the ability to do that and i mean i'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist but i don't know why it might come more naturally to some kids as opposed to others but that's just the way we all are we're all wired differently and we all learn differently so as children i mean if you see your child or for a teacher sees a child in class who is normally open gregarious and you know participating in class and then all of a sudden they're not a teacher knows that there's something wrong ok a parent knows that there's something wrong if a kid on the other hand is introverted and just really not participating then thing in all of a sudden they are that's going to be a welcome change you know people are going to say that's great but the other way around is the one where we really need to be concerned you know at least find out what's going on it could be something small well it could be something that has been happening for a long period of time can you give us just a couple tips on what parent should be aware of if there's a potential for cycling and it lets them to find out there is ok let's start there if they find out there has been cyber billing for any reason they just come across that other software that can you can attach your child's phone that you're read text messages and mirror the phone's operation their child's phone operation and also it has a g p s locating on it so you know your child says oh i'm going to go into susan's house after  school and you know susan lives at one two three anywhere st you can check that and oh ok she's at one to three anywhere street and so you can verify the other thing is if you if you have a child is just getting into the social media aspect of things  like facebook is a good example you can you can friend them you can be their friend and be able to see the posts that they're interacting with people and you can also set the privacy settings so that the kid is only interacting with friends ok kids go through that period where they go from being you know all of my gosh i did my parents i love my parents to why are they in my life and then they become young adults and it's like wow i really so glad you guys are here so they run through that whole cycle and when you run through that cycle on social media with them they're going to be times where they're ok with you being with them or social media and they're going to be times when they're kind of embarrassed or think that you know wanted to back off a little bit they will just come out and tell them tell their kids i'm going to i want to shut you down if this and that happens and then the kid be look at the parents say wall i saw you say these kinds of things to your friends on facebook or on instagram so now you have a situation where you weren't doing what you wanted them to do and so it's modeled to give some children will look back at that and say oh well isn't that kind of the c four why are you doing that so but you're going to tell me i can't do it so i mean you have to know your child your child has to accept your rules ok and you guys got to work that out you know there's a lot of things that just don't get worked out sometimes and that's when you get that's when you get problems well i think this is information every parent really needs to know and you're saying it goes into the young twenty's and i mean there are all kinds of things that can happen once that child gets a phone once you introduce that you've got to come up with the rules you've got to teach them how to be safe that's great you know it's virtue i understand about the seriousness of cyber bullying but we started to now go into how unfortunate internet is now being used as a whole new hunting ground for predators to gain access to unfortunately you know to help the pedophilia to teenagers i'm sure usually it's the girls but it could be boys what can you tell us about this how do we keep our teen safe in this situation you're you stay involved with them you know you you talk to them by my daughter's know that you know there's nothing that they could experience out there in the world that as long as i'm alive and if i have they need to reach out to me i said i don't care what kind of light you're in if you did something and you're embarrassed about it or you think that wow i really screwed this up you know i said i'm guy that you can always call ok i'm not going to pass judgment on you i want to help you and if there's something there you need to get out of that and there's a punishment that needs to happen because of that will deal with that later but we're going to deal with you first and that's always first one thing  is making sure your kids know that they can trust you right that it's better to trust than fear right that's that's how i feel as a father that's what has worked for me as a police officer ok when i had to deal with informants they expected a certain level of trust i expected it you knew at some point that was going to deteriorate because undercover work yeah because you're yeah because you when you you're on divergent paths with another person you may have a common ground right here but over here not so much so it's you have to realize where these parameters are ok you know your kids or a parent knows their kids hopefully better than anybody and that's how you build on those relationships if you suspect that something is going on then you know there are other things you can look at the you could look at the kids that you're your child is is hanging out with you kin or if you don't know the kids  child well who's friend who's friend's house do you think there might be all of the sky bobby's real good guy ok we're bobby live i'm not too sure ok you know bobby's last name well he only bet i'm a little while ago so i don't know so it's like parents are busy ok parents work ok even if you're a stay at home parent you are busy so it's difficult sometimes to stay abreast of all of these things and they don't come into play until you have to pick up the phone and call the police or you know you have a  problem that you need to work out now so you know stay involved in your kids lives keep them in activities that they're getting something out of keep them involved in you know educational things in you know social things you know monitor their work ok let them know when to do good but them know when they need to you know pick it up a little bit you know and you'd be surprised ok initially you know i've had some of my older daughters they because they called me up this like you remember that time you said this that the other now they're in a thirty's now and they're telling me something that happened years ago that i really sometimes might not remember it but they do and so now you know what you're saying and doing is having an impact ok you may not get the report back right away but you know it's there so those are the things i would suggest for parents to do ever since the what really kind of brought this total to light initially years ago were chat rooms ok people would pretend to be somebody else you know and they would lure these girls or male victims whichever into these chat rooms or meet them in chat rooms begin to talk to them pass themselves off as a person who might be interested in them on their level ok but it would really be like a fifty five year old man talking to a fourteen year old girl  and the next thing you know they hey let's meet let's do this and then the pedophile or the the predator gets to meet them and do the things that they practice in their mind t to get this person to to allow them to have sex with them or not or just do you know other criminal things to them so you have to be weary that there are people who are using the internet and social media pages just specifically for this purpose ok law enforcement usually is on top of a lot of it i mean you read about things the state police do you read about things that prosecutor offices are doing where they are you know getting multiple officers from different departments sometimes specifically trained in how to mind these areas for you know cyber criminals and they many people that were caught up in this particular ring and you know it's one of those things that has proven to be very successful because just the same way that predator can go out there and you know in that target rich environment and look for a victim we can also do the same thing to find several of these predators at one time my answer to that is thank god yeah exactly thank god the example we have on enforcement smart and using these tactics and a lot of research to you now to round up these individuals and what do you think is the likelihood of this happening when people always say what they hear on the news that they hear on t v we're here on t v now what is the likelihood of that really happening in the case of an average teenager well  the likelihood i would say i would say the likelihood is at a higher level than most people would be comfortable with i couldn't give you an exact percentage or figure but just from what i see in the news and what i see occurring  in my own job the types of calls that i experience going on and answering with this and that i have experienced i would say that more people than we would like to realize are out there doing this because one thing that is true whether it's a cyber criminal or and in your person in your face in person criminal is that that person may get caught that one time but how many times that it happened that they didn't get caught i so for them to get to the level where they're already comfortable doing this they had already experience either a certain degree of a degree of success right at doing it so there's no way to measure ok what happened years before person was caught and nothing never came of it there's no way we can know but there is a way that you know we can determine what happens beyond that point you know so that i mean that's where that's where the punishment comes in that's where you know people have to serve sentences and get help or whatever the case may be that's going to help try to get them to become a more productive member of society you're tactics that you're employing are where people share member and i know money's tough everybody who is rich is most sure but you'd rather have a temporary little strap additional than have to call the police that your child is missing because you didn't stay close enough involved the internet almost provides a whole new set of challenges than people who are parents twenty years ago yeah but unfortunately nothing we can do to change that right so we just have to just be extra vigilant and so this is it's really important to people remember to stress through kids to only interact of people they've met and real life and not meet them in the and after just meeting and in the cyber world right i mean you have to understand there are people in your life and you get to know them there are people you know on the computer and the only thing you really know about them is what you've discussed and i want you to how do you trust somebody i've never met in real life right so well fred thank you very much  i really appreciate this very well every single parent needs to know every single word that just came out of your mouth and i thank you very much for watching and please remember the little extra time to spend your child reinforcing the trust and just like the sergeant said today take the time with your children to remind them that it's about the crisis that they might be in right that moment and that they should worry about any kind of punishment later