but this that cabbages and kings and all kinds of thing we have to talk a little bit about you to your reason journey you know because that was really exciting but we can take it right from the top and you've had a really interesting life i've learned over the years so yeah i think i've been yeah ok ok welcome welcome welcome welcome welcome very much to conversation a pleasure to welcome to the program they did to put it mildly a dear friend of conversations that being my trusty director has been a director for nigh on to a decade now in terms of my program and also for a great number of people who have been a stalwart member of the of the people here at manhattan network in terms of helping people in the production she's my director and she's just come back from a journey across the world and so and i i'm retired from and i had a lot of wonderful dogs i had my own business i want to talk about that because that business is really very very significant  reason twenty or thirty people working full time for you with all benefits and everything they met you met a payroll i never heard of it on her way for a very long time i don't think people knew that you had thirty or so people working for you yes and i time and my boss called me in and he said to me you know how much money i'm making and i said yes so he said we're going to have to cut your commission off so i said you know i i said something about that and then i said to myself well screw that and i started looking before that i had read an article about a small exhibit company write as much business in a year instructions of the by design so i was just doing what i did the only the thing different was i was paying the bill yeah but also you had a sense of integrity and concern for doing things right i acted as if it were my own business because i had to take care of my clients and why they followed you right because you see what i'm trying to say is you are getting a just reward for the good work and the integrity of what you are doing i for freedom land which was an amusement park in the bronx and i worked for was with an a for the world's fair and we had four exhibits i was in hell i was in my early twenties i ok bonnie ray i was in charge training or something you know as a matter of fact i remember when i grew up people with start like men would start in the mailroom and then they worked their way up to see today they thought up a top and why would we only have sales e we kept playing casa blanca all for and over and over again great classic movie with a great movie and then there was a coffee shop next to the restaurant that was doing quite the contractors the contract yes exactly as i i work with the contractors and the design is we had our own design as i coordinated all of all of the construction and to take part of the accounting and keeping amount and when i st got out of i think it's a good training is like law and i were learning a regular verbs did learn you keep things in order and everything it's a good i think it's a good i work all of the nab you know the st three years of my life when i dive school that was apartment and that while i worked closely with one on everything and then i suppose you were really close friends yeah you were like family for a long time yeah yeah that's good but we were both mean we were there was a two year age difference the great institution you got the trees all lit up and beautiful guard watch the fireworks of new year's eve and everything tavern on the greying was tavern on the great it was all about we completely redesigned it it was run by i can't remember i think it was the city high understand i know these things oh but anyway a course like hundreds of thousands of dollars to put the lights up you have to hire a a claim to put them up every day and they come down the summer because it's not good for the trees there's no no no room so the mood today i don't know i don't know what it costs him one million dollars i i can only get to put the lights  own thing like that and then you built your own business and that was doing these display things that are at no trade shows and therefore i had a kind isn't there now i mean i had no i'm not a construction business  design do you get involved in the yes i i added sure that people hired i hired people to do the design but i would get involved with coming up with the design i would meet with the company  design makers that make you like that know it will at the moon you're in are you it was a union and what happened when i initially when i started i wasn't in the union and then when i when i started getting really big i before i know but a lot i can say there are little things that happened that i don't mean sabotage and if you don't pay the union if you're not a member and by the way i was and i don't i and i think you are good say yeah but unfortunately the union for a very corrupt at that time at that time and i don't know what the situation is now because i'm not in the yeah yeah we had i was raised in detroit you know and that's the thing in both we had a lot of struggle really there were not my dad my granddad my grandfather my mother's father was a union organizer on rd century but there weren't any real union then there were it was the cagr for so they had lithographer guilds then but then we went through the whole thing with the a f l cio in the united auto workers and they were breaking hands and they were fighting it was a real hard fight to get the right of union exhibit so they could slow down the set up you know and then i could my client would pay the light of a cause but if they slowed down the delay the rates could be tremendous they would get over  i was in i think bad ten years but i thought of that with of a part of that time i was working for someone out that left over and that kind of thing but that's a good time and you pulled it off and you got a lot done and you're able to do all of that so it's a good training in life i mean it's a background to be good to know all of you had all that then you we've met if we could i've been doing this public access television since the early pleistocene we had to move the icebergs to get the camcorders up to make stuff back and the sixty five or so bit we met so fast and something but now you've gone you've gone past everybody here i mean it seems on now to me you know how to work all the equipment really well and you have been an incredible help not only to me in terms of be my director and you know with i'd appreciate that very much but with a whole lot of people here in public access and i presume that has a belief on your part in the concept of the people television i don't want to get you know our where we want to talk where you've been involved and what  about and think about communications and that sort of thing and i am look ahead for public access running and i and i like to do whatever i can to make it possible to help anyone where you certainly the news paper and doing well let's see we'll take a satire on this will do as i know you play with a new newt here but anyway it was a fun south technically i was not i was not  access system and i really believed in it you know i think its future is ahead of it still are the active because you've got people that are here because they want to do it not because of the job in terms of the producers here it's not a thing where you're being hired to do something is because you want to do it and if you've got a situation i like the term i use it a lot autodidact that's the thing about people who educate themselves because they're interested in something and they're curious they want to do it people are doing them because that's what they really believe in and want to do that's an environment where i think really creative good things can happen like byron building welding or the technology is really coming and so with that it is today everybody has a hammer no because there's all these things you're really getting good you can do that final cut pro and it should be the people in case they don't realize people may be doing this good to get in that this is open to anybody in manhattan who wants to come over here at the denies truth and say they want to be a  joining some of the people that are here and there's about two hours of these places around the country where there's some citizen support for the people's vivi i would live work possibilities here and it's really important particularly in there where so many of the people fee who expects to be able to do it in a week and do it come then and do it and there's a lot slower i know and you know what i do have to spend a lot of talk i you know and there's a lot of people would take for granted because if you look i'm not am i you know angles and you know some people do and some people don't yeah and that's a perseverance you're going to have there you're going to do it you're going to further veer and you know it's not a what whatever happened to that version or you did that you directed from years sick bed with a neurosis or something birthplace arca no i understand but it's like everything like that requires a kind of a thing and it's good to have a vision or some reason particularly if you're in a situation peepers and then you can come in and this is they they make the goodman available and the society is making the equipment available increasingly because the prices are coming down people get this final cut pro they can do things on their computer and this is linked in to the wider use of the internet don't you think this is going to be streaming this program  all over the world on the internet now so these telecommunications development are really significantly democratizing both the market and wow th and rd but you've got to have some reason for doing it if you're not in the oh you were one called the hidden persuaders who's really back in the fifty's and it was the degree to which the advertising industry can predict within one that one percent or one quarter of the gold lakes is going to happen from our using a red thing rather than a yellow one the people are emotional levels and at that level are so manipulatable by the people who rely a lot to do that and they do with alarming what they them by constantly repeating the same line but it works it works because most people don't think they have to listen to the part the part that was disrupting is that they could predict the pros could predict with such accuracy just how manipulatable the public isn't it goes into things like public you know political discussion of events or thought certain people are very manipulative by these by these media or what they are well if they are not people who have technical side and you like that technical side more i've heard you say the meeting we had here the other day you like that more than being in front of the camera while you've got me you've had me in front of the tam i wanted and all these years i've been working with my hands because i never had to do that in my business korea where you mean with the making of the designs and all the know that i had people during form may or you had people you were do people drawer in the designs i would tell them impractical it was a bad one because i was discouraged you and you were discouraged because it was seen to be impractical no i don't know why i did it no i should have  was the concern of your parents who were concerned you not do something that  hadn't gotten to that part and i began to research i let me go i do at the time i had a portfolio and what happened is i stopped going and if i had a one fact to it i would draw it exactly the same way i did when i was and i was very frustrated because i couldn't i couldn't fill out the perspective myself i could draw up a little sketch but i got annoyed so i went to school and i started learning how to draw and i found that i could draw and i system is telling you have to do something you know is being done and they were on billing and that's of free state of mind in a certain sense to be able to be in that business a lot of people say i don't want to do anything unless i want to make money at it we're not making money i when i say that again because you know that you know i'm saying is saving money when you gave up your business you realise that money making money is not important and what is important that you're happy or where you're doing that is i don't consider it st you know what happened was i was working very very hard and i realized that i had worked very very hard before i'm enjoying what i did and b now i was too concerned i had to make a payroll i had to worry about all sorts of things that i wasn't interested in and when i gave up the business side i travelled and i said what i want to do for a while but then i realised i want to go backwards to what i was younger and you can't go backwards you can't go home again because when you get to be if you have certain expenses you're always going to hire you and well that's and video and and now i i enjoy not having a schedule i know i haven't the choice of what i would like to do when i would like to it how are you and i want to yes and not work with and  try try different types of production run in the past i've done some stuff that's a lot more creative that one i'm doing now you mean ended television or oh yeah you have why do you think that is the move that something t that and if you were to be in a position i was just thinking over it because i had a conversation with a friend of mine i happened to be in that position there are there a friend i happen to be in touch is having to be in telephone who is in a position where they're they're very very very comfortably able to do whatever they want in terms of material world and so forth so they would never think of being doing something that they don't want to do because they're free to not have to do what it is that somebody else thinks they should do well it's a certain kind of freedom that comes with i guess in a certain sense of you have enough in an incumbent income coming  but the point is the same incident as i would say is that if you used to be a term is called a competency that was the you had a competent that is you had enough income you had enough situations where you're in to be able to live the way you want to live rather than right thems i can still accomplish that with what i've got well that's good that's as that puts you in a state where even if you doesn't let everyone is always time to acquire acquire and about what happens when you get to be where you got what you need to do you're going to need dav a venue within word you're working did you really want to do and not because you're going to get it and all of the ethic of the society is training people how many not living you've got to do what you're told to earn a living and everybody's wrapped into the rather than doing what it is they want to do because value right wrongs have to do public acts as a great place for people can start testing the idea that they can do this thing and it's not well and i couldn't have done this if i wasn't me time living on you know me not only as a curator well that their thank you franklin roosevelt that helps and what i have are that we can keep that because i don't know what a lot of the people who are retards would do there are many people with a lot of money but a lot of the law depends on you know absolutely it would be nice if that could be out made and i think it's just inherent that we are going to have the cyber nation going to take over and we're going to think we're going to have a lot of people who are going to be the citizens as comfortably retired need a place venue to express the human spirit public acts as one but we can't keep talking because as you know we're running out of five so we have to thank you very much for coming in and talking with a pleasure  as always thanks for all your help and thanks for all the help you've given to all the people at him and then it's over and beyond for your pleasure to have had the perceptions of gloria messer intrepid and stalwart producer and director of programming them and then one and all are encouraged to get in touch maybe if you think about wanting to become a producer get in touch or get in touch with the movement the idea of movement and that is in that m and then as a part of it laurie thanks a lot for everything you come in and great pleasure  do new will you come back again tomorrow that's it for now and do tune in and one is again glory we do is really good talking with you as always and good to have you on this side of the camera for a change right so you know but i think you're going to have a whole lot of people you think generation i think we're going to a lot of people are going to be freed from that thing about having to earn a living either that or we're just going to they're going to come to something because the automation is coming in gangbusters and w