a forum up tonight that's very very powerful we're very honored to have hillary burkett of the canon law group here today and i hope that we all can hear what's the phenomena of this time it's a phenomenon what is a phenomena we are period where we're about to see the state making about four hundred million in commerce commerce in cannabis state is going to make that much money i think mentioning the faster wrote an article on the fact that seattle's the world's largest mushroom farm when you meet well to mention medical poppies we're going to go maybe we're in the start of something because this is a circumstance and this time in history we all need to wake up to about what let's see japan's getting ready to export forty million of its population consumed completely contaminated all of asia think about that the euro is about to collapse the e u is folding up and they're looking at sending twenty thirty forty fifty million people here over the next forty years as well so what are we going to do you can't get a city bus here in seattle anymore it's awful people from over there and that's kind of something we need to look at because when we're bringing a four hundred million dollar economy here a billion by next year we're about to create ten thousand new products and this is just medical call the junk that they are forcing down their throats which is artificial it's killing them methadone whatever that stuff is hips natural and i was getting into the mushroom for think these kids go out and they not just farm i'm here locally seattle is l biggest marshall farms in the world and they know how to receive them so they can plant more get more in the next six months and every six months they have more supports or ization cycle and they get more and more and more a lot of kind of asked me about fifty million per year under the table marketing coming through money coming through people coming through and i do know that we're in a circumstance where if they're closing down clinics up in bellingham what's going to happen some day people in bellingham let's see your dealing with your own economy money coming into the state you have to survive in a folding global economy a circumstance what you're doing is shooting yourselves in your own feet if you don't get it yet and this whole global economy is based on a global banking center get that has basically built the planet for five hundred thousand trillion dollars we're not paying attention and so we have to look at the circumstances where we have our own state to worry about and we have a circumstance where the world is showing up and we have to survive and if we're not looking at the fact that we have a state about thirty seven percent the size of france with one fourteenth population and over fifty times the actual resources why what i mean by that twenty square miles circular around seattle is over two hundred twenty thousand cubic tons of rock crayfish nobody seems to know that or do anything about if we start how you can starve to death in this state you can't die of thirst here and we produce over four hundred times more food than we consume here in this northwest area of the planet in the united states something think about bill i hope i am said to much everyone ok we're going to learn a lot tonight we're going to learn about the business ends of medical marijuana and other marijuana use is what not in the farming that you're talking my things like that all these businesses that are that are being formed around this so  reach me i do do the business side of medical cannabis and we'll get into the details of what that exactly means you can reach me at info at cannabis law seattle dot com two zero three zero i've got everyone let's start with hillary ok hillary first of all give us some background about your your your career and what you put the areas of life you've worked on i can do that i've been a lawyer in washington for a couple years now i passed the bar exam out here in two thousand and ten i'm a graduate of the university of miami school of law across cable southern florida so i made a long track out to seattle i was not always involved in cannabis  mostly general litigation before that in fact the partners in my farm they have healthy practice areas in other spheres of the world want to china the other one is we soon cruise ships oddly enough so my firm is used to jumping into niche markets and occupying the space and becoming the expert in the space so that's what's really led me to medical cannabis and frankly the way that we even got into it was through a criminal lawyer who couldn't be here tonight but should be here  he has been known around town in seattle for dealing with medical cannabis cases and patients and he needed a business attorney because there was this outpouring of interest curiosity and motivation to start businesses in this particular industry so he didn't want to do it himself he's not into incorporation or civil litigation so he passed the ball on to us so that's basically how we got into the medical ca field and it's been a wild ride ever since and i've been doing this now for about a year and the increase in the amount of people who want to start a business has just been through the roof and the civil litigation has also been out of control we'll mention bellingham we were actually be attorneys who did that case in civil court we didn't get the relief that we were seeking but it wasn't a bad decision all together and we can get into the details about if you all want to we will i will be fun but before that again how do people reach you that's a good question so i do work out a laugh erm you can access the general law firm but if you're interested in cannabis it's much easier just to go to w w w dot cannabis law seattle dot com we also have a blog it's the kana law blog dot com and if you want to reach me again e mail the best way is info at cannabis last seattle dot com or you can call the office two zero six two t bellingham there were a series of denials and revocations of business licenses and the most interesting fact that most people don't know is that the one access point northern cross had actually been open for a year open and operating for a year and on their business license they have disclosed cannabis products now in the city's brief the response brief because we actually sued them for what's called a temporary restraining order it would have stopped the city from enforcing against our clients basically an unwritten ban on cannabis what kicked it off were these denials and these revocations so in administrative law you have a certain amount of time to appeal those decisions which we did but what happened next was that the city police department actually handle livered letters to my clients saying shut down or else basically and our clients knew that they took the risk by remaining open which they did and then about two days later the local authorities came in and raided my client's shops and i think there were three all together it was a joint k g b and northern cross and we represented the joint and northern cross so we had to act fortunately for the bellingham city attorney he knows the court schedule very well so conveniently enough the cops raided on a thursday on friday we were ready to file this lawsuit against the city of bellingham but it was a furlough day which means that the court is closed so they delivered these letters at about five pm on a thursday without hot and bothered hardly anybody can reach relevant counsel i gave my clients my cell phone number so they were able to get ahold of me but at that point people had been arrested been a criminal counsel it was a very strategically laid out and then a cut off from the civil courts so we weren't able to file until monday unfortunately even though we wanted to have this on a special site hearing so that we could get any answer very quickly the judges actually allowed the city more time to respond and then we had this hearing that took place about a week ago at first actually we had a different judge and interestingly enough judge schneider in bellingham when he took the bench to hear the original case he did something that was very interesting that he did not have to do he took the bench and he told us he said i want to tell everybody in this courtroom petitioner's most of all that i run the drug court in bellingham and i want you all to know that when people are going through drug remission i do not allow them to use cannabis even if they have a medical recommendation and he left it at pat and he said i want you all to know that if anybody feels that they're not going to get a fair hearing at this point this is the opportunity to get a new judge he was he was giving us a heads up to get out of there so we consulted with clients and negatively we did take another judge and it was judge mira now judge mira is a west point graduate which at the atom outside seems a little disconcerting however judge mira is retiring so we thought ok maybe politically judges are supposed to be unbiased but always knowing the background story is helpful so about two days later we get in front of judge mirror we have oral argument in all honesty when we first got in there he hated us he basically took the bench and gave off the attitude of why are you wasting my time but he allowed me i did the world argument this order because i can't issue an order allowing people to do with their intitled to do under the law so that was why he didn't issue the t r o now on paper it is a loss don't get me wrong it's a loss but in theory he punted and basically said if they're allowed to do what they're doing they're allowed to continue to do it who might issue an order that's not what this type of order is for so he also said pending what happens in the criminal cases if the criminal cases are cleared there shouldn't be a problem but he didn't really make a substantive ruling regarding whether not what they were doing was lawful so that's the linchpin essentially to us he punted so it wasn't a resoundingly for the city nor was it detrimental loss for us northern cross is still open and to the best of my knowledge what's happening now is people are trying to get a proposed ordinance to be pushed through in bellingham to allow people to operate without threat of enforcement because that's ultimately the last place to go  is the political arena so that's the case with bellingham oh why so i joined i'm not aware that the joint is back open well that's that's i was going to ask why is our then cross open northern cross is open and you know some of this i can't disclose because it's attorney client privilege but northern cross is open because they took that ruling as we took that ruling what they're doing is lawful in our opinion as their attorneys they're in total compliance with state law  and entitled to do what they're doing at this point it's kind of a mind game with the authorities because if they go in and raid while these criminal cases are pending we could go right back into judge mere and i guarantee it he will not be happy with the city so that's why it was not a great victory for them mainly because it's still as great as it was but he definitely he never at any point in his entire ruling it's not on the record he never called them a legal businesses never he never did that so you know it's interesting if anything but it's not bad so what is you know them squash business they are nonprofit cooperative and this is a very standard business model for people who want to infiltrate what we could call the business end of medical cannabis really what it is it's more of an administrative organizational package where people are organizing themselves as collective gardens they want things like limited liability in case there's a lawsuit i've had clients that have had their landlords try to sue them for eviction and nobody wants i mean you know that bill nobody wants to be individually liable on a document like that when the damages could be huge so rather still these funky nuances produced by collective garden law some of these things transcend industry like civil liability and payroll and taxes if you fall on that side of the camp i know some people don't i encourage my clients to pay taxes and it's much easier when you have a u b i rather than dealing with it on your own so northern cross is a nonprofit i'm not the criminal lawyer but from what i can tell a lot of these things happen along in the day and whether or not it's purposeful i can't speak to it but it happens to produce a very effective tactic that people can't get ahold of their attorneys so inevitably they're spending a night in jail they're scared and you know i think for the cops perspective they want to teach these people a lesson they want to flex their muscles and they want to show these people you know you may have this this cannabis law but you only get an affirmative defense we can still arrest and prosecute you and with bellingham they were sending a message they were sending a definitive message so with other cities the enforcement i've had clients have been raided by the federal government you know with the fed grades sometimes those are very early in the morning and will take place throughout the day but with the local authorities i have noticed a lot of it does happen in the afternoon or potentially even in the evening and if that is happening  and on purpose and weekends you mentioned that it's hard for them to get a hold of their attorneys is not a violation the casting process of being able to talk to your attorney your lawyer theory i'm going to say yes but you know these people are just like anybody else they take advantage of the loopholes and you know and bill can speak to this about when you're in an interrogation room and about not being having you know access to your attorney that's the most extreme example you know what to say and i think you that your due process was violated because you couldn't get your lawyer on the phone is a stretch because that they could also argue shouldn't your lawyer be accessible to you through a phone call anyway and they could argue be true to you but not a lot of work at least you're just think name and though you'll contact that person that will be a lawyer and he'll wake up in the middle of night and then mediately come alert all the legal issues and person will ever get to a judge to be heard to get out and tell the following monday for example and they'll often wait for this this time and the key that you've come up with is to get your crack is the pattern if they're continually doing this as a as a pattern or as a process then then you know the concept of if it's if it's capable of repetition yet evading review because it's moot the time is over that that you could even argue that they did something wrong because if it happens every weekend or something like that and it's always over before the court can ever consider and rule on it well the courts look back at things like this and say that that that that this is this could even be a violation of rights if they really did if they really did this in this as a matter that doesn't just happen in the in the local law situation the food comps or whatever this year and the happens in the supreme court here in the state of washington you might have a valid appeal on or some time to block the other side from taking something that that would normally be their advantage but yeah interesting topic but let's hear michael oh yes i'm sorry so so about the rule of law enforcement in this i mean a lot of this comes down to policy i'm actually considering running for sure keep counting myself that you know here you get a sneak preview like ok so i know a lot of this is released to law enforcement i'm actually considering running for sheriff of king county f all these other things that the because if there's anything that's outside of the urban areas they're going to change county sheriff's office is going to target is going to be involved in those things but most of these types of issues are you going to cannabis  are more urban and they're the problems and the issues we're seen here about are more about businesses starting up and more of the urban areas because that's where the people are for for these businesses to make appear they sent the letter to the wrong address therefore and every notified and so they picked me up on the friday if you can you know yeah they put being in jail and they find out the only time you can appear in front of the court is not afraid so i spent a yeah and if they locked away for a bail hearing then and you know i did it i see it all the time where they are looking at that particular crime and that there may be a warrant out or something like that and they're looking at and they're seen they know that this person is going to get out and they know this person may even get off of this crime or get such a great plea deal but they do this because this is the punishment not only punishment taken but i mean i never get they're never going to get three days in jail  whatever that whatever that crime as and and it was a literally name these things for those we can't do that now i had a whole program five years approach i mean because of the way these people treated me and i can do is many years as i can possibly do because this is not and you don't treat people like that inspect to stay in power  help changes i can't speak to the public housing and when i was in miami i actually did section eight housing and it was really tragic you'd have a mom that had you know a lot of children and one of the kids would be you know smoking a blot on the property and she's out and she's working her ass off every day and she's gone so i don't know if florida law is different than washington law i'm sure that there are some similarities but until that changes i can't speak to how they're going to treat it in the future i just don't know for low income housing i know that in the private sector when you've got something like a commercial grower in a warehouse the key to safety and safeguarding is the lease that is what's going to rule all and that is a contract th not governed by the landlord tenant act so you can put anything in that puppy that you want to that's in forcible under law and what i've seen with my clients when they come in if they didn't get me counsel it's a standard commercial lease that doesn't speak to things like odor or things like  raids and you know the landlords going to construe that potentially as a default if they miss a payment and they're going to be on the hook for those payments for the remainder of the tenancy now i had one client that the landlord wanted to sue eviction and i looked at the lease and it actually did take into account things like auteur the done pretty well written and it was an order issue and i thought well how can mean it for the landlord because order is probably the most subjective default you could have and when you do bring in order expert and he was going to pay for it i mean the landlords the one that's moving for the relief right so we went back and forth with the lawyer and the lawyer for the opposing side tried to use a couple scare tactics with me he said you know we've gotten we've gotten complaints that the feds are coming around in the department of agriculture and i said well that's really convenient because you know you're just as guilty as my client so i think there's an incentive there for you to work with us so that they don't pop both of us at the same time because the landlords are liable under the controlled substances act for even renting to these people so there's a lot of incentive for them to work together not cause a ruckus and to come to a resolution so for my commercial clients the key is the lease and a lot of these landlords don't want  on paper the permitted use what happens in the event of a default but to me that's not a public document unless you go to court and to keep it private is the best way you could have it and those terms need to be defined so for commercial people watching out there if you're going to have a commercial grow make sure that lease is high and tight and don't be fraid to define a made use this is not a public document but for the real concern for the low income housing and those people in the restrictions that they live with it's an issue and in my opinion if you're in compliance with state law they shouldn't be able to do anything with you under that lease the problem is is the least when you look at federal law could they make it so broad to say you're committing a federal crime and that i don't know i'm not you know a real property lawyer but i doubt it i doubt that they would go that far so if you're in compliance i think you'd be ok but with section eight housing it's pretty strict so i don't know that's some great information about the situation  and all them cats i don't know all the names but anyhow they created that word in the town and it's been used ever says to designate a speedball that used camp as a undergrowth underground not where the whatever and i feel very offended lawyer backed off and they were my client alone and they allowed my client but actually complied with the terms of the lease to allow my client up to a month to get whatever alleged we don't even know if it was really there in compliance and the complaint stopped but you know unfortunately the timeline it was right after november when the feds came in and so in my opinion it was pretax to the landlord got cold feet and was looking for a reason to evict my client because they became uncomfortable with the idea of a  right i think all the way i look at this issue is that this is a new area of law there's going to be cases and the cases will start establishing precedence and there's going to be conflict between state and federal law on this and  there will be times when people will back down so that president doesn't get made so that that's what so check interesting about it for me to look at it not only as a landmark because i do have some r s but also as a lawyer just looking at the area of law it's it's it's so interesting to be involved in an area that's changing right as you live these initiatives and expansions of the law and and we've had the earlier shows on what they're going to do about people impaired while driving and that what's that level i we're going to set these laws what not all of these are going to be challenged there's going to be no matter what laws are written there will be challenges to them somebody is pushing the envelope a little bit further and and that housing will come along because any any time money's at stake leases and people pay monthly rent and things like that there's the places the times that it's come up it's been shared housing where where you don't which is not one person occupying a whole house but it's it's a person sharing with several other people and whenever that happens you get into an issue of of person a not wanting older or smoke or or concerns or worries about who might be coming over to the house about anything with cannabis and and you get all those issues going on the up multiple parties involved here and i've got to the legal community hears about probably estimated we'll be having about two thousand more jobs still be here in the state something that we all do you think about not just fighting people with one all the bill we're not going there we're going to stay here with this thing this is our state we need to stand for what gives the best for us you know i think there are journeys that are trying to do that i think you will react thank you yeah well it's it's a very interesting area lot of a lot of what are we left with in the residual collective current law so we had a big problem there a lot of people that were structured as i will see is for profit limited liability companies and that was when they all thought that dispensary is were going to be lawful well  do essentially makes them per se unlawful now dispensary has never had a definition frankly it's a term of art in my opinion it was a for profit business not necessarily involving qualifying patients basically you know anybody could dispense weed to a qualifying patient that was ok so you get a lot of those not a nurse adds but going forward we were kind of cut off at the knees because now collective guiding law does that mean only qualifying patients can serve qualifying patients who are members of these gardens and you've got some hard vast numbers forty five plants that can yield up seventy two ounces about four and a half pounds with no more than ten people in a given garden at any time now how does this translate into a business well fortunately there are a couple of business models out can there that facilitate this type of coming together namely there are two the one we see most popular really is the nonprofit cooperative and that is a legal term it is it's own business entity it's got its own rules and regulations it's got its own statute the other one is a nonprofit mutual benefit association that's for basically if you want to have shareholders and it is a possibility i won't get into the nitty gritty details i'll spare everybody but more often than not we see people incorporating as nonprofit cooperatives because the collective garden law is set up the way that it is and frankly you know you've got these incorporated businesses but on the side you've also got things like farmers markets so as far as the intent of the law goes whether or not they were supposed to be businesses or not it is happening and in seattle the king county prosecuting attorney and the seattle prosecuting attorney have signed on for this business model and other cities have to it's not just the seattle thing good hardware michael t o is a quad they all allow for it no other cities don't those are the cities with whom we fight but the status quo for now is nonprofit cooperative the reason why they don't go all the way and have ten people is because they want to rotate people in and out of these gardens because the law failed to define membership so they're defining membership if it's supposed to be about safe access they don't care if just one person is members see this is a good point and this is ra it's important to note that membership was not defined in the state law which is the default it's not geographical it's not temporal it's not physical so i asked him it's as lawyers as counselors receive it because it's a logical to assume that ten people would have to physically be at the garden at one time some of these people can't even get out of bed and if it was supposed to be about safe access there should be no problem in a policy way with people rotating in and out of gardens seattle signed on for it and so have other cities the cities that are fighting it those are the cities that scare me the most because they refuse to acknowledge the reality of medical cannabis and they stand in the way frankly they're all in violation of state law was some you're in violation of the law and a minimum it is a washington state id and a washington state recommendation that's valid fundamentally that's the bottom line and i know bill can probably testified as this i know the criminal lawyer we work with he can when you're vetting your patients to let these people through the door and this is you want to talk about issues that business is face a lot of people you know they're not familiar with the hipaa act and not that these businesses are required to comply with that view of federal law or state law a lot these people do out of respect for patient records in addition to vetting your patients for the fundamental requirements of the state statute you need to be checking the doctor and it's a really easy way to do it you just go on to the department of health website check the website make sure they're legitimate because we've had horror stories where undercovers are sent in and they've got this allegedly valid documentation but on the other end of the line when the access point is calling the doctor about the doctor the doctor is a cop so even though you know by my estimates bill can confirm it that's entrapment it doesn't stop them from ruining your day booking you putting you in jail you know and it's preventable that's the bottom line and it's a lesson well learned you know put you on them up their money legally that's a good question and you know i give my clients two disclaimers and i will give our viewers the same ones i'm not a criminal lawyer and i'm not a tax attorney or c p a but i do know superficially where people are obligated to pay and it's going into both the state and the feds and here is why on a state level for profits and nonprofits are treated the same they're obligated to pay sales use be a no excise if they generate it now there is a problem with these access points in their nonprofit status and this obligation of sales tax you have the state saying we're not so cool sells we didn't exactly put it into the law but if you look into it it's not a good idea but it's not for sure so that's one piece of the puzzle but then that same time they're saying we want our money and the best vehicle for that is a nine and a half percent sales tax so the criminal lawyers were upset because of this labeling issue yet people continue to pay in my opinion the state cannot have it both ways they can't say pass our sales tax and then we're going to prosecute you for admitting to sales so that's kind of the issues on the state level on the federal level the big stinker in the room at the moment is t eighty it's the portion of the tax code that says in this industry in this industry alone you can only deduct for cost of goods sold the marijuana the cannabis so what does that mean the retailers are in hot water when it comes to tax deductions because the feds have said everything on the retail side is non deducted drug trafficking and everybody who's been reading the news know steve de angelo harborside out of oakland they've been slapped with a two point four million dollar tax penalty they paid the bill now they're going to sue back on it and his lawyer is the lawyer who achieved great precedent for us all in the champs case and he was the one that preserve the status quo that you even get the duck ssion for cost of goods sold his name is henry like ho he's going to go in for round two against the feds but he's beat them before in tax court so as long as two eighty's around you're going to need a savvy accountant to find deductions if you're a retailer and the best way to do it is to have an in house growler because they get all the tax deductions