essentially a carryover from the reading we had last week where we were with with you folks making final recommendations to our city council on item is that the committee had been considering over the last several weeks as a result the council meeting last budget hearing i think there were a few more items that we've added to the list of items you could it be considering today so we're going to try to wrap it all up to date and get to some decisions from the committee on what to recommend to full council so we'll start with a couple items that were of so for the finance committee's questions related to street tree planting we took some time and met with jim dewey in the public works department to look just at fiscal year nineteen and the plans for street and sidewalk improvements thinking that would be a way to begin a discussion based on the work effort that they have planned using measure refunds we determined there is an opportunity to plant up to one hundred and seventy five trees in street park ways and that that estimated cost to purchase the tree make the soil related improvements install the tree and then maintain the tree for a year because it does require watering what we would use the gator bags that you're seeing increasingly throughout the city about ninety five thousand dollars a year and that's based on our current contract costs that we currently have for tree planting and tree care when you look at sort of citywide we estimate there's around thirty four hundred vacant street tree sites in the city and this is based on our street tree inventory and then other aspects of information that we've developed over time where we've evaluated the infrastructure considerations for a number of city neighborhoods and determined where there are vacant sites where there could be trees in some cases there's a vacant site and it wouldn't be appropriate today to put a tree there so that good afternoon chair heart and council members jessica cadiente library director and i'm here to expand upon the plaza update i would like to start off by providing you a history of the project in two thousand and ten one hundred and fifty thousand dollars was allocated to the project with rda funds and then in two thousand and eleven landscape architects campbell and campbell were hired and they performed a series of public workshops that were very well attended and where many of the ideas for the project came about unfortunately in two thousand and twelve design work was halted due to the disillusion of rda but in two thousand and thirteen funding was restored with library gift funds and that also allowed for the expansion of the scope of the project the original project was for the front upper plaza off of an apanui and now the product the current project takes on the entire exterior property of the central library in two thousand fourteen the library received project design approval from a chelsea and went back several times in two thousand and fifteen to discuss conditions and then in november of two thousand and fifteen a chelsea final approval was given to the project in june of two thousand and seventeen phase one construction began which was the ad a compliant entrance on the south side and in august of two thousand and seventeen that was completed again looking at the existing conditions this is how it is today a couple of the items that were very important to stakeholders looking at this project was the lighting and the visibility throughout the upper plaza for lower plaza pictured on the you can see this project focuses on flattening the entire plaza to create accessibility throughout and highlights the faulkner gallery a chelsea requested that the design i looked at the central the s you can see it harkens back to those reflecting pools and focus again on the entrance to the faulkner gallery this is an image of the upper plaza prior to the museum staging as you can see the planters and the grading does not allow for accessibility for any of the programs or events that the library or community would host again this is just another view a bird's eye view from anna pamela king at the final design you can see there is an imagined vendors and other activities taking place one of the key elements that was discussed throughout the design was the paseo between the library and the museum as you know many paseos connect the improving the lighting this is a view from the laura laura kata or library avenue side so you can see this is the expanded scope taking in the lower plaza and again just connecting that to the upper plaza and i do want to acknowledge the excellent work of our public work staff at the city of santa barbara as i mentioned previously last summer they began the transformation of this entrance and in just a few short months this beautiful eighty eight compliant entrance was created and now from the library parking garage people have access and no longer have to walk all the way around to ana pam oh and again the the idea of behind the plaza is really endless in terms of what we could do and we really focus on the library as culture art and education this project isn't just for the library but something that is really for the community in the downtown area and just to give you some ideas of the projects of things that we are thinking that we can do on this space festivals movie nights performances music and dance outdoor games summer every day at this library we host lunch at the library it would be wonderful to take that outside children's programs often times we reach capacity and do have to turn away children and families because of lack of space within the wall so it would be excellent again to take that outside make activities while it's amazing again to have slime and paint in the library it'd be great to have it outside as well and then gardening workshops we do a lot of partnerships with you see master garden gardens and it would be again just an extension of the program g to be able to take that outside and being in the cultural hub of santa barbara inviting the entire community to do block parties and things of that nature and then public art santa barbara's known for its art in the space would be a perfect place to demonstrate that and then the rental revenue as i mentioned in a previous meeting outdoor venue comparisons between two hundred and twenty or four hundred and ten dollars per hour and just a reminder the santa barbara public library is positioned between the courthouse and the art museum in the heart of the santa barbara culture arts and commercial district and that concludes the presentation thank you miss cadiente is there any questions councilmember friedman a couple questions if you could go back to slide i think it's it's the the process what's been done to date so all that work has already been done but what is remains to be done in terms of engineering in any permitting what's the next steps for that the next steps would be going to final design or the construction drawings and then if you could so i just want to clarify you touched on it but the utility of the plaza as it currently is it does create some safety issues especially if you're looking at i guess the bottom left of that corner where you can't it's hard to see some activity that takes unanimous highlight of the stakeholders being able to see about the property for both safety and just the being able to highlight the beauty of the building both and thank you and then i ha on slide twenty four you mentioned the rental revenue it comparable to other areas how often now do we i know the museum in those issues were prior to that how oft was houghton we typically rent out the plaza or how frequently councilmember freedman in my tenure not frequently so it is a missed opportunity there if we were to go forward with the with the renovation we could actually see some generation of revenue and in that area it is tho so yes currently not being accessible to segments of the population limits the amount that you can use the upper plaza in particular  access entryway are you speaking to from the parking garage to from the driveway into the parking lot and i'm uh sorry i'm sorry i'm a little under the weather today so i'd hate to repeat my questions for clarity let me know the drive way cars coming into the parking lot is that to change at all or does that change yes right now it's in a temporary state as we also are working with the museum on a transformer project and so that project coupled with the library plaza meet at the end in order to redo that entire area so can you show us on a slide what that means exactly mister chair well they searched for that light i just want to chime in that i don't want people to get their hearts set on the reflecting pools we believe that state law has been changed in response to the drought so it may not be allowed that's just one of the things we'll have to address in the final design but i just there they're a beautiful visual component of the renderings we're show you and we might have to come up with something equally beautiful to replace them if they're not allowed thank you for that clarification the other question i have the the rental revenue have you guys studied the rental revenue for that part of downtown i know the courthouse has several facilities that they rent out do you know what percentage occupancy they're experiencing councilmember dimming is we do not know their percentage of  we actually do receive inquiries for especially the lower plaza that's currently open so that it is the belief that it would extend into rental opportunities but we could definitely contact those other agencies to see what that actually means annually okay and you've received inquiries but you said no one's used it and i can understand why walking by there but it is it is something that i'd like to see even just a back of the envelope calculation how many times you'd want to rent it if again only if you're using this rental revenue in our deliberations as something that's going to bring down the cost if you're just throwing that out there it's just kind of a secondary benefit that might come true then it's it's a lot less important yeah it is it is a secondary benefit at this point okay so the driveway did this is the only image that we have is this the area that you're questioning the library avenue driving into the lower plaza mm hmm so what's the  music the museum piece has begun but again it's just a temporary until we can do the design for the plaza so you're talking about a grading by the museum or the driveway that comes from anacapa into the parking lot all of it so it's all going to be regraded yes okay yes there are other people here today that could possibly answer these engineering questions in better detail if that's something that that wasn't really an engineering it was just trying to picture it in my mind thank you councilmember doing this to answer your question jessica pretty much had it spot on but the project was done in phases so that south entrance the curb that you're looking at right there that'll be a temporary curb so that that little kind of ten foot stretch there is temporary library avenue itself the function of it will not change it'll be regraded and still be the access to the parking garage there will be a new rolled curb or some sort of transition that will allow delivery vehicles back into that lower plaza so it'll serve a similar function that it will be cleaned up and all the grades will meet good afternoon committee members i'm jim dewey the streets operations infrastructure manager as the last finance committee meeting we talked a little bit about having a long term plan as far as the streets infrastructure was concerned and so i put together a couple of slides that talked about different that talks about different funding levels that we need in order to meet our goals in terms of the pavement condition index which is we're trying to reach a  pavement condition at index a pci of seventy right now we're at fifty eight and one element that is affecting our funding right now of course is the  b one the additional gas tax of course that there's a ballot initiative coming up in november to repeal sb one and basically what that means to us is that we would lose about two million dollars plus a year and funding for streets infrastructure so we'll have to see how that turns out in november but that will affect our timelines as far as our plans are concerned of reaching our pci of seventy but i do have four scenarios here and basically there there's two scenarios that include the sp one gas tax excluded two of them are based on fourteen million dollars in total infrastructure investment just in paving in order to reach that and this also includes us that these different funding levels also include all of the non pavement assets which amounts to be fifty six million dollars over twenty years and i think we've talked about you know what are planning for oliver and if the structure was so that was two million dollars so we would need about thirteen point two million dollars a year and we would achieve our pci of seventy in year eighteen at that point you know we can start leveling off on the amount of money that we spend on pavement and apply that to other things likewise in scenario number two if we lose sb one funding we're gonna have to move that percentage up to about sixty six percent need a fifty three percent of measure c to do that and that is including sp and then moving to scenario for this would be a scenario without sp funding we'd need about sixty one point five percent irr thirteen point five million a year we'd risk meet our pci target of seventy and year twenty six and so this graph just shows basically what happens with our pci over time based on those four scenarios the two top scenarios have the investment of fourteen million dollars per year the two bottom ones are at thirteen million dollars per year there was no point in going below thirteen million dollars because once you drop below that we never reach a pci of seventy and are there any questions are there any questions now this is really helpful i shows you how important it is to maintain that level of the basket and just to add to this you know when we talked about the police building in five years and bonding for that we don't know what's gonna cost but the original estimate or the last estimates were around eight million dollars per year debt service so if you look at the fourteen million dollars pavement investment the balance of our twenty two million estimated revenues would go toward paying off the bonds we have a little bit of our opportunity to the first five years before we get there but that's kind of order of magnitude what we're looking at it also demonstrates how critically important the retention of the state gas tax is to all the plans and how they fit together and voters should be very aware of that the pci is once you get above the at risk category so on average all of our streets will be in good condition so there's a point where you know the break over point is like sixty eight pci and then above that you start getting into a good category so historically we've been able to maintain the streets this was many years ago in a category above seventy and it's just a good sound practice to do that so that's that's really considered a a minimum something i'm just trying to put this chart into context if we have the money we want to at least keep it a seventy so what would be any pros or cons to going to seventy two the the pros to going above that is that as we maintain our streets in better condition we can see some cost savings and doing that we put a little bit money upfront more money upfront but our ongoing maintenance costs decrease the better or the condition overall condition of our streets are but there document for a condition that we are trying to maintain our our streets in and as mister dewey said it helps us to manage costs appropriately because as you go below that it gets much more expensive to repair streets that's something we've done a number of years ago and we said that as they're sort of our target and and we have to essentially report when we start falling below that so it's a really a disclosure issue for us so is there a cycle that cities would revisit this this goal no there are any triggers no there aren't okay so and it strikes me this is pretty conservative then so i just want to make that kind of the general context to this this is a very conservative very cheap plan because we're just getting up to the bare minimum to avoid these extra costs of having to go back and do more extreme roadwork is that framing it accurately i would say that that seventy pci is as a standard practice scale go up to eighty or does it go up to one hundred goes to one hundred and so a newly paved street so for instance the shoreline drive after we finished paving that before it started getting cuts into it was at a hundred but seventy isn't a good summer you know seventy seventy five it's really return on investment we can do the some of the cheaper more production work on keeping those streets in good condition for less money and keep it high so that it doesn't dive down as we start to see it go below that then you're starting to get into the underlying street structure and that makes the projects much more expensive so it's not only how it affects the drive and how they look and i do want to say that poor condition streets not only cost us any money they cost motorists money because it causes more wear and tear on street on cars and so trying to keep them in good condition for that reason as well as important right so the next question is we had talked about which streets and the order and the prioritization is there any information forthcoming to that series of questions not today but i have prepared several maps that show our short term plan and also our long term plan i can get those to you and the the report i believe you said you use a software system and there's a report is that part of the maps or is that something separate it is not the report is a modeling system so it doesn't necessarily tell you or indicate exactly streets that you're going to be working on but rather the categories of streets and the treatment that they need and from that we do a lot of you know we have to choose which streets and try to coordinate that with all the utility work that's happening in the right of way could we see a sample of to raise was a twenty two million a year and it was mentioned that we can't fall below thirteen million a year funding to get will never get to seventy unless we do thirteen million so my question is in terms of the projections for measure c does that take into account the current economic conditions and if there should be one word there should be a recession in the future and then also we're dealing with as we're gonna be discussing the council later the issue of tourism coming in town sales tax and all those issues and it looks like our numbers have been off so how does how do we account for that those type of numbers within this chart the committee members twenty two million dollars is our estimate when we put together the recommended budget for next year only it's a one year estimate it's gonna change every year hopefully i'll grow every year but it doesn't reflect any recession that might hit us or in the future for sure yeah we're seeing some impacts now but it's not i don't think it's gonna change those numbers too much i think twenty two million dollars for working number for now is is something we can we can use next year we'll update those numbers and then a committee member friedman that the other moving part then is then on the expense part and that's going to cycle up and down based upon the economic cycle when you're in a competitive bidding climate it's more expensive but if you do hit a recession we still have measure c in place that a lot of communities don't and so you might find it an extremely favorable betting climate at that time and then also materials cost will fluctuate there's just a lot of different moving pieces any other questions for the public works folks okay thank you very much  so i'm going to go through the other items that are sort of outstanding but first bring up some of the things that the committee of we think already have supported or has supported so that we went through the general fund revenue assumptions the staff recommended adjustments there were only two where we adjusted where the energy study was gonna be a counter for and funded and we wanted to remove one project in the streets fund that was completed this year is that and so we don't need it next year we went through a number of proposed via justice both the general fund and enterprise funds council we're gonna talk about scooters and in this fee and more detail so i think we can hold off on that item for now and then within the proposed fees increase adjustments there was a proposal to increase fees and planning and building to fund additional positions  heard that and that i believe we got support for that so these are the additional items beyond what we think we've already heard on these are where we're looking for specific recommendations from the committee the first and i'll go through them individually quickly and there were staff here who could speak to them in more detail if you like so that city attorney you'll hear more today in their presentation but there is a request for two positions a deputy city attorney and a legal secretary and this is really in response to the the need for additional support for community development you heard at their presentation that the the request for another one and a half positions as project planners in response to it you know major work load projects that they're working on and this is to support them through those efforts and then in the library there was a discussion item of allocating a half dollars toward the library plaza to jumpstart a capital campaign you can see there's a zero dollar amount there to the right because we we presume that that would come from  existing capital fund industry from either general fund revenues or measure seed that we would be just shuffling the deck on that and then we had the fire position the public education coordinator it's a one full time equivalent position ninety nine thousand is the net number they have twenty thousand budgeted now for a part time hourly position so this would be if we were to fund a full time position what the cadet cost would be and that's of course that's under discussion as to whether we need a full time or not the impacts the library of the county board action allocated costs and we know that tomorrow they're going to be considering this and may restore that that though that funding or impact and then we this is the first time you've heard this you know we we mentioned  the couple months ago when we presented mid year and those kinds of things that we were there's a potential that we would see an impact to our sales taxes and bed taxes next year as a result of the thomas fire in the debris flow we assumed that it would be sort of a short impacted but we did of three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars we think we probably should be lowering that and then funding that out of reserves so that'll be something we'll be asking the committee to support council approval but it would be coming out of the economic contingency we mentioned that would be a possibility that's what those reserves are for it just kind of creates a structural problem next for of two thousand and twenty but we think it's the right thing to do too late to be making adjustments to the budget for that but to adjust the revenues down by that amount i think is appropriate again from reserves and then there was a request for a an economic development strategic plan our estimate of that best guess estimate of that would be fifty thousand dollars a one time item and then the request from visit santa barbara for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a one time request and there are two representatives from visit santa barbara who are here noel and and jessica jesse lynn so if you have questions about what the status i know they have made some progress on on obtaining funding from other agencies and i think they have made some progress so if you have any questions about that they're here to answer those so this is the list and this is what we're here to kind of get your direction on in terms of how we move forward again just you know we have a balanced budget and so we would need to come back on you know what's hopefully with some ideas on wednesday if to the extent any of these things were supported how we actually fund them we have some general ideas but we really aren't prepared to kind of go into the detail today but we would come back certainly in two days with some thoughts based on what you do recommend thank you for the presentation we have two speaker slips actually there any other questions for folks while we're at this point no okay mil tests followed by an howard and i think we have one more speaker slip coming up which the city's library board when i became a member of the library board five and a half years ago the design of the renewed plaza was already well underway i remember that we not know where the money was going to come from to complete the project but we were enthusiastic about the design there was a vision during the time since circumstances have changed in two significant ways one the art museum undertook its major construction project and has been occupying the plaza for the past year and there there is no firm point in time when that will stop and the other is voters prove measure providing a source of funds for the capital project so once the art museum vacates the plaza we're faced with the question of how to pay for the development project the library has a short list of other important capital projects tightly focused on the needs of the library in its mission the ad a compliant elevator the creation of a teen center restoration of the roof terrace and the renewal of the eastside branch library so let's not pull resources from these projects to fund the plaza because i think it's important to recognize that the plaza isn't exclusively a library asset redevelopment is not entirely a library project it's the plaza is a key link tying together the major civic and cultural elements of our downtown district and so it's very much a city asset as such the project rightfully should be funded primarily by the city as a capital improvement program yes there are other potential sources of funding as well the library foundation through a capital campaign and the art museum through compensation to the city for its use of the plaza as a staging area but who should take the lead in funding this infrastructure project clearly i believe it's the city's responsibility to take this leadership role thank you any question mister has any questions okay thank you very much thank you next speaker is an chair hart and councilmembers dominguez and friedman you heard from me a few days ago about the library about the plaza we've all seen the benefits of the plaza here from director cut antes presentation i'm just here to make it clear the foundation is expecting the city to take the lead on the plaza with measure c funds to get that delayed plaza project back on track we are a small rather new nonprofit foundation here we came into being to build the children's library and we're ready to keep on going we raise four and a half million for the children's museum half of that came from you all from the city we have another million and a half for the endowment and now we want to go on with this long list of projects that our library needs but as mister hess said we don't see that we are the first source for a major piece of our city's infrastructure the plaza we want it we want to help we stand ready to partner with the city but we're not the biggest wallet in the room i guess i want to say so we're looking forward to helping we want to get on the doors to the faulkner the doors the anaphor mood doors on the library the teen center the second story rooftop garden that would be revenue generating we want to see all those programs going on out there but i just want to remind you that we're waiting for you all to get this thing back on track and then we'll be able to come in with our capital campaign thank you well thank you for clarifying our partnership with you thank you chair hart and councilmembers friedman and dominguez i'm here to add my voice to milt hess's and an howard's that we feel i feel it is the city's responsibility to maintain the city property that is the library plaza it's not only the cultural link but it's also an ad a project as well which allows accessibility to and from the library into other areas in the downtown area so i feel very strongly that we are looking to the city not only to jumpstart the project with the generous five hundred thousand dollars from the general fund but to factor this into your strategic plan on how to spend the rest of the money so that the library plaza can add to the vibrancy of our downtown core thank you thank you miss yeung thank you for your service any other comments from anybody in the audience the folks from visit santa barbara when i make a presentation while we're at this stage kathy was here i think last week and she gave you the full presentation we just wanted to follow up with what we've received today we have commitments from the valley and then also city of goleta for funding about twenty thousand dollars towards the proposal and we just wanted to give an update on that i guess i wanted to ask if you had any specific questions that weren't answered the first time during the proposal any questions i did have a question is there any way and unincorporated southcoast county city of goleta and i guess now we're also talking about the santa's valley to get a sense of proportion of the benefit of you know the work that you're doing by jurisdiction so that we might imagine you know  proportional share of this one hundred and fifty thousand dollar ask you know under very much appreciate the work that you've done already to get some other funding partners and in the equation with the twenty thousand dollars it would just help me to understand you know is that the pro know we promote the santa barbara south coast so we are promoting equally our partners i can follow up and get that data for you if that would be helpful okay or perhaps our staff has some sense of that even just proportions by percentages are we about well there might be at half or sixty percent of where we're at we're about nineteen twenty million dollars tod right now so they're maybe around ten or so and then i think carp and then standing is area is distant behind me might be in the four to five million dollar range i'm not sure maybe even not that much okay well that would be helpful i think to us to just kind of understand if we're a fair share of this one hundred and fifty zero dollar commitment might be and that just helps us i think in our deliberation so maybe our any other questions for staff not spurn dominguez i would just save my questions for per visit for wednesday with kathie and are you actually i guess i will take that back and ask one more question is there an as either all come in together or potentially separate if one they want to come in when another doesn't so we have asked all of the individual cities themselves so you're still waiting to hear mm hmm so we should give a  not part of our tea bed so we wouldn't be able to promote the city of carp and then sorry what was the other question the county of santa barbara the county of santa barbara i don't know if that we're in discussions do you know that um but i can follow up with you as well yeah the county would be an important partner since they do have some of the larger hotels and and the unincorporated area on the south coast here okay we'll find out about that as well and then could you explain more about how carpenter is not in the tea bid they chose not to be part of this so the the private sector industry made that decision or they city council in carpinteria i think it was the city council and that's been actually for a few years now and they initially were part of it and then they chose to pull out of the tea bed so we haven't been able to include them for several years now i can't put a curse when you're advertising the south coast of santa barbara they they benefit whether they pay or not yeah and we always it's part of our marketing efforts and our content we always specify what is the city of santa barbara south coast excuse me and we have content on our website and two other channels so we try to make a pretty clear delineation but of course they're probably naturally gonna you know some of the benefits oh yeah okay thank you any other questions okay thank you very much i think it's to the committee i want to just start with the library because that's the biggest number i want to start with i think what i think everyone agrees universally is true which is that the plaza needs fixing it's not in great shape and the ada is a big component of that  my only concerns on the other side of the balance sheet or the revenue and with the three hundred thousand ninety four in a seventy three loss of sales tax revenue that's a concern the sb one when is that going to be on the ballot is that june or november november okay so unfortunately we won't know about that and that's a huge how much revenue does that provide us it's over two million dollars per year okay so that could really change our decision so my kind of compromise are reaching out would be if we could delay the decision or figure out a way that it's contingent upon these revenue sources and not disappearing or not further decreasing because the other side of the coin is the programs we could fund with that money i'm concerned with how much program we can do on the plaza i would i certainly want to see the roof fixed because i think we can control who's up there better and the safety of the kids i i've taught high school and i am familiar with safety having worked in public safety as a prosecutor so i'm always thinking about what's the angle to worry about and from the pictures i saw is there no fencing between the plaza and the street and i know this is an area that santa barbara has differed with a lot of communities in terms of whether their fencing things off or adding cameras and it certainly should be part of a broader discussion citywide with our with all of our capital infrastructure projects and our assets but committee member dominguez there is no fencing and it is a wide opening plan and again increasing the visibility of the plaza which actually increases the security and so the same token you're reducing the landscaping crack and at this point it seems like it's pretty much just going to be a very plain simple elegant stone platform that is correct and so one of the problems we have now is people laying down and sleeping and depositing carts and suitcases and smoking and do we have any security fix features worked into this plan committee member dimi is in two thousand and fifteen the city council gave the library director the ability to create sizable rules which we worked with the city attorney to do  and those rules helped us maintain the exterior of the property as well as the interior so if you go to the library now you'll see that there are restrictions on cart sizes or the amount of items that can be left and so vast improvement  even with the small space that we were currently dealing with which things could compound greatly if we did not manage it and because of our new rules were able to maintain that as well as with our partnership with the police department and helping to maintain the entire property so it's going to be a continuation of our current policies if i can boil it down right okay and and i'm concerned because i'm not sure how effective those policies are there now and it's different because of the staging i know our policies around the city aren't one hundred percent effective i don't know what percentage you would call it but different parks over run and a lot of playground equipments not being used in areas i think because of safety considerations so one thing i'd like to see either no matter what happens is is refreshing the security element of this plan and rethinking what the use is going to be i mean do we really expect kids to be out there particularly if it's hard scape i mean most of the school programs i is that the flat area can be used you can put furniture on there but overall i think that the idea that as you saw in some of the images that i provided you know the flat scape whether it's dirt grass or a hard scape stone material would allow for similar programming throughout and the difference in terms of programming you could do there versus the roof is just a matter of scale yes and what's the size or area differences at two to one three to one i couldn't say for exact measurement i would estimate that it's closer to ten to one the roof terrace is quite small in size in comparison to the entire exterior property of the plaza okay and then are there other programs that we're looking at either say for parts of the cities that don't have a branch library that this would compete with city funds for like the mesa and the west side do we currently have any operations there currently we do not have any physical operations what we're working on our mobile operations so taking to the mesa or to the west side to allow for checkout and doing pop up libraries and things of that nature i mean there is always hope for the future to discuss actual spaces on different parts of the city but currently it's more of a mobile operation okay because that's that's my concern given the the what we're learning about kids and schooling and after school programs and the lack of resources that are available on the east side and the west side after school there's a lot of great programs out there and the east side library is amazing but to the extent this would potentially compete with the program we could help fund or more scholarships to programs that's that's a concern and i think everything i'm raising are issues that can be dealt with and still move forward this i just want to bring these up to see if we can get any any answers in the near future and the enthusiasm i've heard from my colleagues probably makes all these questions moot but i do want to bring them up  i think that's all the comments i had on on the library councilmember friedman  question to council about at the library communications outreach staff and or additional person did you want to talk about that as well this hearing is not on the list chair hart what we did after the library department budget hearing was started to develop a plan for bringing in a trainer from the state library to assist us in creating a communication plan with our friends groups and starting there and looking to bring in the chairs vice chairs and other members of our various friends groups for training on that topic it's not exactly what i was thinking about  terms of the position there is not one that currently exists within the city that is a friends liaison and in looking at other libraries throughout the state that position does exist in some but it's typically in libraries that might have upwards of eighty friends groups that they need to focus for communication on so the size of the number of friends groups that this library has a full time position  to do that is probably not the best use of resources you know the library has various positions that would probably be before that such as a social worker or things of that nature that could discussion at the council level was to elevate that as a priority and make that you know something that would be happening not you know i don't say i understand your position which is that's not your highest priority i think the council has a different view about the importance of that and so i think our discussion was you know we want to see a plan maybe to do that now if you have a different way to accomplish the same goal you know as i said before at the previous hearing i'm hoping to that and want to see that but i don't think developing a plan is what i'm looking for i'm looking for executing better communications with the partners and that can be a reallocation of existing staff that can be a reprioritization of the need to do that there's lots of different ways to do that but you know i think there is a big missing gap in that that isn't being met today mister chair a kind of a continuation of the conversation last week we hear you i didn't hear a clear majority of councils say go fund a position in the library to be this friends liaison to the other communities so in all due respect we're still kind of struggling with direction and we certainly know your interest we do think there's this resource at the state level that comes down and trains friends groups about what it means to be friends groups what their role is and and how to be more effective at fundraising for friends opportunities we thought that was getting somewhat at your desire and then miss cadiente was also talking about getting a better structure in communication with the friends groups we clearly hear that there's a feel and a need to have better communication with friends groups and so we are identifying ways to do that more actively with existing staff okay well i i it was pretty clear from a majority of council that folks were interested in knowing about this issue and having you come back and bring different proposals so i'm disappointed that that hasn't been done and i don't think that was ambiguous from the council meeting there was not clarity that we would fund it and pay for it but there was clarity to bring forward proposals about that so i'm disappointed that there was a miscommunication about that and i apologize we've had maybe five working hours since the meeting from thursday to right now and so i think it's a little unfair to expect us to have come back with a variety of options for you at this meeting we can come back with a little more discussion on wednesday night but it's very tight turn around to come up with a new plan for a new position and new program to kind of meet your set the priority and direction and even set money aside if you want to to help fund a position as marta the budget process then we can have the time to more strategically develop it and that's that's a different answer than the first answer and appreciate that if it's a time constraint thing we think i understood that when we talked about it last week and there wasn't a lot of time between now and then but you know the first answer we're not doing it and we're gonna get a plan is different then we didn't have time to work on a plan and again mister chair we work for you so the fact that we came up with an answer that we want to take advantage of state resources if that's unacceptable to you all give us direction and we'll do it okay i don't like quibbling with you but right you know give me four votes and tell me to find one hundred thousand dollars to put into the library budget f position and i'll do it okay although a majority of council and you set the leave by setting a budget direction i think the reason why there's a little tension in this is that you know my and my recollection of this discussion in the past is that the council has spoken pretty clearly about this that there has to be more work done to collaborate and communicate with our partners and that that had that happened to a degree but not to a sufficient degree so that i think that's why there's there's more to this than has happened before and we need to elevate the intensity of that and make it clear you know that this can't go on and it and it speaks to you know the collaborations and the partnerships with the library foundation as well really critical speaking to councilmember dominguez points having that partnership is extremely important to fulfilling all the capital projects that we're looking forward to and having that you know work well and investing the time and communications in that regard is an investment on leveraging our varied scarce public capital dollars with the the foundation and the friends the friends are a great resource that can be you better utilized from a fundraising standpoint with the right relationship and so that's that's what i'm speaking about is that we need to spend the time you know with library staff to have attend friends meetings be present be there build up those relationships so that we can have a good collaborative partnership with all the people that are involved in this to be more successful thank you we hear you i i just don't want any misperception i think we do have a good relationship with our foundation i think they've said so over the last two meetings so i don't want any implication that there's been a lack of a good working relationship with our foundation and our local friends groups i think you also heard testimony from then that they feel there's been great communication there as well i think the difficulty has been more with the branch libraries the non city libraries and the friends group associated with that and clearly we're here the the need and necessity to have better communication with them going forward okay well i'm not gonna go over and over again but some of the public testimony in the last meeting was that there wasn't enough communication with the friends that's what people said how often does library staff attend friends meetings chair heart so we have you know several friends groups we have our city library friends central and east side and the central library friends meet monthly and we do attend those meetings each month as well as the foundation meetings the county branch friends groups we do not attend every meeting but we do send staff  for example last month was an annual meeting i believe for the montecito library and so we did send staff to discuss future programs and think of that nature so we are communicating with them i think that maybe  discussion of again what are the roles that each of the groups and we are here to help them be the best advocates that they can be in to partner with them and but sometimes there are some issues such as personnel  an administrative decision at the library department level and so we're negotiating that right now i think in terms of everybody understanding what role we all play and that's the role that you see for the state library to provide that training to the branch friends and groups for them to understand the relationship between the library and their organization i think for all of our support groups would attend that i think that and there's always been this idea or a plan that we bring all the friends groups together it's just a matter of finding the time to do that but we absolutely value everything that each friends group brings to the table you know we do struggle with staff capacity in terms of you know we have one supervisor who is helping all the different branches and on their very public facing initiatives such as the collection programming things like that and so to  take time away from her job doing that to have her to in friends meetings just means that there's less done in the public facing role and so we are negotiating how we can be better we absolutely always want to be better is not a you know set in stone that were one way and we aren't willing to be flexible or change but it is we are growing and in a transition phase as a library the central library east side library have gone through a tremendous growth over the past few years and now we're really figuring out how we can push all those initiatives and programs out to the branches with the support of the friends groups last month we had an excellent event in the carpentry library where we brought all different agencies to talk about fire preparedness and you know so we're doing a lot of excellent work at the at the community level at these branches and how we just need to bring the friends groups and at the carpinteria event the friends groups were a partner with that and so i do think that we are making the right and going in the right direction it just might take more time than some people want but we're committed to making every library that we manage as excellent as they can be and that means having a good relationship with our friends groups well that's good that's exactly the goal and that's the purpose of having this discussion is to get to that place as fast as possible because i think there is we've had trouble with our financing partners because there hasn't been as good a communication with the friends as would be ideal and i understand it's a zero sum game and you only have so much staff to to allocate to that task but you know to me that that has added to the complexity politically of getting the partnerships to be understanding of the financial needs and this so to me that's sort of step one if you don't have that communication you don't have that partnership that's solid that that understands the numbers and believes and the numbers then you have a much harder time getting to the finish line together and that you know i understand that you're working really hard to expand programs and things but at the same time when that is not managed and that isn't attended to as well as it could then then we have other things we have to with that are consequential and significant and that's that's the point of me bringing this up that's the reason to put this on the table to say it you know if you can't do it with the existing staff then we need to look harder at having you know providing you with the resources to do that so i'm trusting that you're you know and nobody else is talking so i'll stop talking and let my colleagues add into this conversation but you know i personally feel very strongly about this  maybe i should let my colleagues talk to see if they agree and we can stop talking about it if it's just me remember dominguez where this year the library has been the gift that keeps us talking a little bit of like library so it's hard to address these issues that come up one time in you know a century with kind of a best practices approach i think i was in lockstep with mister hart the one thing that gives me pause today is seeing these revenue numbers and you could hear me wearing my fiscal conservative talking about the five hundred thousand dollars so anything where we're gonna have to spend money i do really appreciate the fact that you came with a revenue neutral idea i don't appreciate the fact that it doesn't mean another person but i think maybe a way to compromise is if you want to come up with a p when you're performance measures that captures how the library is doing with our external stakeholders and then we just leave it up to you to figure out how to reach that goal maybe you could work with christy schmidt or someone who does that kind of on a regular basis and that'll give you a go and i like for people have goals you're you're a very successful highly professional person and i think if we gave you a goal or you came up with the goals and we agreed you'd have no problem knocking it out so that's i think how we can possibly reconcile the positions i'm open to anything but that's what  throw out there and can i just ask the question about the five hundred thousand is that something that the organization needs now as seed money if we know or do we need to ask them for the library for the library plaza so but we consider that a capital project and so we consider that if you wanted to prioritize that coming from capital funding either measure c or your general fund capital budgets we provided you with proposed capital budgets for those two so we'd have to find something to scale back to come up with that five hundred thousand dollars the way it's been presented to me and your discussions prior has been that is kind of an initial set aside of city money to show that this is a priority project that we would then take from that money and begin the final design drawings and building permits to get the project ready for construction and with that i believe the foundation said they would go and try to fund raise money for the construction cost the other benefit of doing the final design is that it gives you a better cost estimate of what the project really is gonna cost right now we're working off a number that's five to seven years old and don't trust that completely and would like to get a new updated number thank you very much for that answer and is there wiggle room at this point to change the design such in such a manner that makes it more security conscious and possibly cheaper without impacting the the primary goal of the design or the primary aesthetic of the design is it such that it's so specific that it's never too late to jump you know i'm trying to figure out a way to bring all these exactly i hate and i paused because i'm not sure i can visualize what you mean about the security enhancements that you'd like to see if it's including fencing it off that would be a very important conversation with historic landmarks commission and other stakeholders and that sort of stuff if it's more cameras and that sort of thing that's different i do think that a lot of thought went into the design about by design trying to create a better safer area that was one of the motivations of redoing library plaza was that very reason so some of that's built in not sure the scope you're thinking about but clearly we have preliminary design approval from a chelsea which is great but it's not done and there's certainly opportunity and probably taking out the reflecting pools will save some money  then thinking about the timing once we make that decision and if we do have a problem say if revenues keep dropping or sp is taken off the books do we have the ability to change our commitment to that funding or is that locked in once we take a if you tell us to go start spending the money now we will and then if november turns out that we're losing sb and you kind of say hey if sp doesn't pass bring this back immediately we might want to halt the project you know midstream where you are something we could do or find an alternative way to finance your bed so would it be possible to put it into the books but not spend the money like you're saying until november and in terms of the timing with the neighbor and the work they're doing i know you just mentioned one of the reasons for getting the design work started to see the ultimate costs but in terms of if we pushed it back until november with that change when we'd be able to break dirt yes by six months because we're able to start the design is going to take long enough where they're going to be finished yeah as i've heard it's gonna take them two or three more years so how about sorry you're talking about the museum project i think in the museum if they had their preference they would probably use it as a staging area for years what i've been hearing and have promised to you all is that their permit expires in august if they request additional time we'll bring it to you all for a discussion and we can set the terms about how longer they're in i think final design and building permit generally ballpark takes you about a year so you're not ready even if you have all the money to start construction for a year so you can have that conversation with the museum but you hold all those moving pieces do you want to set the money aside and that's my worry about this timing is we haven't evolve those discussions further enough this week to really we're really looking at a crystal ball that isn't super accurate and and this is the problem with dealing with these requests at the last minute it's a super valid request but we don't have the time to have those conversations because if we do stop them from staging what does that mean to their construction and that's a conversation we would have to have with them they would have to find another area to do the staging that they're doing currently on library plaza if we're ready to start construction so another parking lot down the street or the street itself or what what are what are legitimate options that people like them have done in the past i haven't looked at that i don't know if mister wilson are still here if he has any thoughts about what they would look at you know they're they're essentially a private construction firm so they'd have to and that construction is having a very heavy impact on the businesses on that street so if we do something that's going to make it worse and take longer and impact more businesses that's something that i i want to have as part of this discussion whether we need to is great but they would have to figure that out there would be options for staging library plaza construction and the museum construction it would inevitably add cost to the library construction project for logistics and but there are downtown construction projects and they make it work so they would have to find somewhere relatively nearby or work logistically with the library plaza to kind of do it in stages but it would end up extending the the aggravation or moving it to a new set of aggrieved parties the laura kate i would probably happy and the stores across the street would be happy but it would create a whole new set of people who are impacted inevitably it'd be nice to talk to the museum and see exactly what stage they're at in their construction project to see what kind of materials or how big that staging area is gonna be overlapping with the plaza project is then you get a better handle on size constraints that they have facilitate that conversation this week i know you've been in communication and i know it's not always easy i think it's unrealistic to think that we'll get a good answer out of them by wednesday at six zero p m i could probably call and get an answer you can you know we've had conversations with them we're trying to be good neighbors and try to help facilitate their project it's a large privately funded project in the heart of downtown which is great i just always wan remind us of that fact that it's good that the art museum is investing you know fifty million plus into their property that's good for the city they would like to stay on library plaza that's gonna be their first answer and i think if we say no you need to move off they'll say okay when and depending upon when they'll then have to factor in what their needs are can they accommodate more on site where would they look in the neighborhood don't know and to answer your other question could you put the money aside but say don't start spending it until we see the outcome of any potential recall of sb one yes that that's certainly something you can do and the other thing i was going to mention about that is just the optics of the situation it seems like this library conversation since last summer there's been a lot of underlying themes that i don't want to regurgitate those here but doing spending five hundred thousand dollars this week on this type of project is probably not the best optics and or hiring another person to go do pr is going to probably have a lot of people say see i told you so and that's it councilman friedman ok great discussion of effort so i'll start with the discussion that comes from a more heart put up i am hesitant to spend money out of position now giving our fiscal numbers but of course we need to have the best communication that we can come up with and i think a way to go about that first would be to to work with our friends and kind of just have a sit down with them and say what communication is working where would you like to see the enhancements and within talking with them and then you bring that back to us when we consider it in the future because i think that's where we want to look at is where  gaps and talking to them directly because there is a lot of good communication that's going place but we cannot take place but we can always do better so i think just having that in those discussions with them on where they think we could improve would help us make an informed decision whenever that may be down the line  in terms of the the plaza project itself i am supporting of course the the five hundred thousand for that project for a number of reasons in regards to setting aside the money and then not spending it or maybe pulling it out later i understand where you're coming from and it makes sense but there's also another side and that's the foundation because it would make it really difficult for them to go out and form a capital campaign and saying we have this seed money from the city but so they need a firm commitment in order to go out and do the work they're doing and the fact that we have a foundation that can help us raise significant portions or a significant amount of this capital project it actually over time will reduce our capital projects long term so i think we need to give them what they're looking for and miss howard spoke to that today is a firm commitment for them to go out and be able to start their capital campaign they have it ready to go it's up to us to make that happen and so the other component is that having final design will also enable them to reach out to specific donors as well so the more we can have that project vetted out finalized and ready to go for them it makes them it makes their capital campaign that much more effective and in terms of just that plaza project itself you want to remind everyone that there was approximately two million dollars that was previously allocated to it when we had the rda that was removed when the state took it away so it's a previously funded project in addition we're looking at downtown and what is what can we do to enhance downtown one is invest in our infrastructure and we already know what the prior product what the prior plaus or the current plaza looks like and it just doesn't work if you compare the courthouse or the other area is the the current configuration of the plaza it's just not up to par with those so bringing that up there's the grenada project that's taking place in that in that back parking lot that is part of a connecting vist connecting corridor walking paths that we saw slides are in enhancing the plaza we'll get from basically victoria all the way down to figueroa on a on a plaza on a walkway so i think we need to move forward with that as part of this project and and you'd go to final design so those are the two in the library do we want well actually you know we had a speaker come in late miss rodriguez wanted to speak about the fire department budget so if you want to come up quickly and let us know what you're thinking about that thanks for your time and consideration i wanted to share with you which i hope that you're aware of already monique lamoni assemblymember her bill was passed in the assembly last week it's bill and seventy seven which requires natural disaster related emergency information to be made available in the most commonly spoken language other than english so that demonstrates that there was recognized the lack of communication for the spanish language community this this was a direct result of the thomas fire and montecito debrief flow and i tagged some of you on facebook so thank you councilmember dominguez for following up on that i don't there was a request for folks who were affected to go to a link and fill out information provided by the national weather department or something like that but it was only in english so it was gonna leave out a huge amount of people who speak spanish only that were directly affected by this emergency situation and they were not going to get their feedback councilmember dominguez followed up on my request for spanish access and the weather department apparently was able to provide that in spanish however the fire department didn't put out a notice in spanish they didn't say in spanish the same information that was delivered in english so the thought that we can still continue to use in house resources to fund or to make up the difference it's proving it's not working so we need to have simultaneous information in both english and spanish it's not impossible the santa barbara school board or school district does it and does it well and it just seems like the right thing to do thank you thank you all right so we're time is short and  just looking at that list so we have a presentation later this afternoon from the city attorney is there a way to fund that is that you know good question i think for next yearfor for those that are ongoing we may if we're looking to fund those we may have to look to one time funding for next year and then recognize that we got to deal with that in year in two thousand and twenty you know we don't have any ongoing sources to fund that today so anything up there that as ongoing is gonna probably come out of some one time money within that be reserves or anything else we can come up with certainly the things that are one time we can look to reserves or maybe even appropriate or reserves presume that or assume that the five hundred thousand would be a reallocation of existing allocations that we recommended and you went over from both measures see in general and revenues we have a list of all that so if there's a recommendation to fund that from that list we an overhead that we can show you as to what's currently being proposed and you can have a conversation about where that might come from then right now this would be like a one point six million dollar withdrawal from the general fund this is all all this is coming from the general fund no i would still say some one one again the five hundred thousand dollars unless you wanted to keep exactly what we proposed and then add five hundred zero rate that five hundred zero would have to come from reserves we wouldn't have any other source for that again we assumed that the five hundred would be re fling the existing twenty two million dollars we have four measures see in about a million three or four that we have from our normal general fund capital program i'm confused where is the money coming from it's eliminating some other projects it's trionic capital and in fact if you reprioritizing those right funds so when would that conversation take place no do we have a list of programs we'd eliminate yes we have a list of what we were proposed for our capital program for next year again the  large majority is coming from measure c and i know brandon can probably fix that so there's two sources of capital that i think you could look at it this is the general fund capital program so this is the amount that we have every year and you can see in the recommended budget is at about one nine million dollars of general fund capital and you can see the project descriptions down the middle column so you could look for five hundred thousand dollars out of there to say we're gonna defer one of those projects and instead prioritize library plaza for final design or you could go to the other sheet which is the measured measure c sheet and find five hundred thousand dollars and reprioritize library plaza to be a higher priority than some portion of that for five hundred thousand dollars that's our recommendation you could also you know add it to just the general fund operating list but we don't think that makes sense we think that you should work within the two capital programs to make your priorities known thank you okay well we were running out of time just just so i'm on the record i think that the five hundred thousand dollars commitment to the library plaza project is a really good idea and necessary for you know taking advantage of the potential partnership funding partnership with the foundation that's really a great investment and we should be looking at every opportunity we can have like that to take our dollars and have them leveraged to  go farther if there were other opportunities to do that with some of these other projects obviously probably aren't with those the measure c projects but maybe some of the other general funded capital projects that would be a good principle to me is to invest in things that have the potential to generate additional return but i don't honestly know how we're gonna put all this together when we don't know enough about all the other pieces of the puzzle for example the city attorney's budget friedman i was gonna recommend recommend if we can possibly especially the ongoing since there's a long term fiscal impact to that would be to look at just the one time the one time projects in this case being the the plaza and then the downtown and economic development strategic plan and the visit santa barbara request and if those are something that we want to do one time this year and then the ongoing ones that we would have to base on time have the full council consider that on wednesday night so would you be amenable to looking at the one time just today in their interest in time sure do you have thoughts on those yeah i was gonna recommend for the visit santa to put a number out there but definitely it's not the one hundred and fifty anymore so kind of hearing back from you where that's at but i would i would be supportive of contributing toward that effort from the city and then the downtown economic development strategic plan i i would be so i am supportive of that proposal considering that downtown there are a lot of conversations that have been taking place along a lot of our community groups and partners coast village association downtown downtown santa barbara visit santa barbara the chamber of commerce the workshop that we were at councilmember de ming is that we were out a few about two weeks ago and this position as i understand it would be to bring all those ideas together look at what what what's coming up organically from within our own community for downtown and then also look at what other communities have been doing for best practices and it gives our administrator's office the additional capacity to work on that this year and come back with recommendations for us in a year or so is that correct somewhere around that timeframe could give or take but but come back with us with with some definite recommendations not only what we're doing but it can also help what our partner or entities can do in terms of downtown because the future downtown is not just about what we're going to do here at the city it's what all of us or our organizations that are investing down there so i think giving where where we are and i don't feel like waiting a year is something we should do so i'd be supportive of that so i think the economic development strategic plan i'm not sure exactly what people are talking about when they say that do you know what that would provide that we don't already have well basically as i've been talking with individuals and from downtown and business leaders is that there's a lot of conversations that are taking place right now but they're fragmented some of them are our higher level but there's a lot of great ideas out there so what this would do is go out and look at what those ideas are who's proposing them how they fit together and looking at edit from a comprehensive level and then also going out and looking at best practices that other communities are doing and working with our council and our partners to bring back a basically unified plan that we could get behind and going into the future on that so that's what it's looking at and mister casey could if you want to elaborate on it but that's what it is and the other component of it is mister the city administrator's office has only a certain number of capacity for projects not this but any all the projects that are taking place within his office that we're asking him to look at we just looked at libraries and so this would be someone who could specifically focus on economic future of downtown to give that extra capacity to work with so that's what it is so thank you for that explanation i'm concerned that we don't have a concrete vision what this is going to provide i'm concerned this is just for downtown and we have several business zones in our city coastal village road upper state street middle state street so think we're throwing money at a problem without a clear vision where this goes the downtown organization paid for retail study and there's a list of concrete suggestions that no one is has started acting on so i think buying a plan for fifty thousand dollars that's going to sit on the shelf next to a plan we already have is particularly given our budget situation doesn't make a lot of sense i'm open to something if later on we get a really strong business case for it but right now i just don't see that business case i agree with you on visit santa and the public education coordinator is that person going to be serving more departments and they're just based in fire or is that fire only committee members dominguez they will be based in fire and and working primarily in fire but we work citywide on messaging during disasters emergencies and and even daily messaging so i see it we'd be working throughout the city so thank you thank you for that answer my concern there is that we spread that person out a little more i'm happy that you're willing to host the person in fire but i think police department probably has a more involved ongoing day to day week to week when there's not an emergency a need for that and then other agencies could probably benefit from someone to help with translation and interpretation so if that person's not actively training people at a particular time it would be great if we could have that person working for example with the city administrator's office on their larger scale messaging so is that something that could be tweaked in this current proposal or with this how would we look at this there are models from other cities that we've examined again this is a request that's come from in public kind of late in the process that we haven't had a whole lot of time to look at it when we have been talking about it it depends on what your vision of this position is if it's disaster service and recovery communication in a bilingual manner i do think that having that in your emergency operations section of your fire department makes sense that does cover other departments working with police department and that sort of stuff if it's more just general bilingual outreach and you want to kind of staff up and beef up our resources then it might belong under the city of ministers office where we have a communications team not a huge team but a small team and have it be housed there and so we kind of looked at it from those two different perspectives about where it should live based upon the conversations you all have had in the public so far it seems like it's been more on emergency preparedness i'd which is why at this point we're saying if you want to do a fully funded position it would be in the fire department thank you councilmember friedman gonna make a motion but if you wanna well i guess you know now i did not realize we had council at so we have a little more time so the stress of the moment is passed love it so just making going through the the list what you're telling if i'm to make sure i'm hearing this correctly for the city attorney's offices even though it's defined as an ongoing expense because it is you're adding staff you're proposing that you're going to use one time revenues to pay for that for a year and then just have to reevaluate in the future then the library plaza that the proposal is to reallocate or just you know look at other projects within the measures c or general fund capital list to reallocate that if that was the of the majority of the finance committee i guess maybe we can come back to that then the public education coordinator just a question of whether it's half time or full time or where it's going to be the library we're hoping that the county is going to take that number off at the board by fully paying for what we originally proposed with the county and then the loss of revenue that is an ongoing issue that remains to be seen and your property you're proposing that you're just that's correct and again we would we said that before we mentioned that we would but that's a potential that if depending on the impacts were saying that we would have to look to those reserves next year because it's too hard to respond in short order it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to be using alcee reserved because we may end the year this year with reserves above policy because of the mutual aid activity we've had don't know yet but we think there's a possibility and we would still even with this proposal have our reserves intact okay so what does that mean for this budget that so our proposal would be using reserves next year to cover that shortfall of revenues the economic contingency reserve it may or may not mean the use of policy reserves that used to reserves may come from reserves above policy is what i'm saying we just don't know that for sure yet so we're being asked to vote on a budget that does not fully fund reserves but the possibility exists that that will not happen because we will have an unanticipated revenue from mutual aid that would mean that the reserves are fully funded that's correct okay why couldn't we just assume that the mutual aid funding is going to come in and vote to have a fully funded reserve budget and then adjust accordingly if that didn't happen so we you know we closed the books and argos september we all know the final numbers until september or october in terms of where we end the year and a lot of moving parts other revenues we don't know the rest of the months for tlt what that's going to look like we do know mutuality of a pretty good estimate of that we don't know what expenditure savings from salaries are going to be there's just a lot of moving parts to where we in the year how much we're going to need to cover next year's growth and budget and reserve requirements so i mean i can give you a ballpark but i couldn't be sure i think we're gonna be okay and end up not having to use policy reserves to cover that revenue short report shortfall i just can't be sure for sure i can't tell you that that's true for sure okay and then continuing down the economic development strategic plan we talked about that visit santa where we talked about that  amount from parks for street trees the ninety five thousand dollars is that was that absorbed within the parks department budget or is that additional on top of this mister chair i believe you brought that up in the context of measure c in the streets funding and did we want to add planting of trees as part of the streets capital program and so i believe that's where the question came from and we're looking for direction if you want us to include that in the measure see streets capital either could be absorbed and just say that's an added cost that goes into that program and absorb it and do you know ninety five thousand dollars less of of pavement work or make some other priority choice in that regard and that's not on the list because it wasn't clear whether it should be on this list correct okay but we that's why we brought it back though and responded to you and looking different guidance on that all right well it's to the committee and do we want to look at the  we want to get into the reallocating of the measure c and general fund capital projects to look at that do you want to put those up on the board and take a look at see if there are things that make sense is there anything that staff would recommend that there's a way to squeeze in the five hundred thousand dollars for the library plaza well you know i i have not had a chance to talk to my department heads about that to give you kind of a unified thought on that  it's hard because they're all priority projects and so it does kind of come down to a policy choice on your end as well as what those priorities are a couple things stand out to me and they might be on the other list brandon if you could know it's hard you know the the pavement side on public works and the streets infrastructures where you're investing a lot of money but that's always been your priority from a measure c standpoint and so but do you want to look at carving out five hundred thousand dollars from that we could come with a recommendation you about where that would come from on wednesday night if that was a priority another one the louise larry davis center renovation it's a priority it's designed it's ready to go it's also one of the city assets that i think we're gonna look at for the police department location don't know where that conversations gonna go that's gonna happen over the next four to six months internally i'm gonna hold off spending the money on the renovation until we know what's happening at louise lowry davis center so i mean that's another one and then you can see all the facility maintenance and renewal projects down at the bottom but those have been priorities for us to get to so it's just it's hard for me if you can give me a little guidance about some stuff to look at and then i could go and talk to my department heads as well and bring back a recommendation on wednesday night if the decision is yes library plaza is important we want to fund it go find a way  plaza i think given we've heard from the foundation and the discussion we've had and that the louise lowry davis center that that's currently under consideration for the police station so i do want to go for with the plaza project i do support that and looking at that that potential source i think would be a good option for now especially since that that money is kind of tied up for foreseeable future for four to six months or if there's a hybrid we c well i did that does sound like the place to start is with the leas louder davis center renovation given the site questions about the location the police department that does not feel like the best way to invest that money and that that's a large enough money amount of money to accommodate the library plaza and also have three hundred and seventy one thousand additional dollars to reallocate to the general fund some of the you know let us let us look at that and see what we recommend if louise lowry davis is not chosen as the site of the police department i do think that's a project we would be interested in trying to finish so let us see if maybe we want to hold back some of that money to then couple with a project the next fiscal year what's the timing on the site selection you know about four to six months would be my guess we're going to be at council tomorrow actually with a presentation on an update of the police station project we are bringing an architect on board and they first charges for them to do a little space planning needs assessment and also site selection process working with the council subcommittee that you all already appointed to do some initial analysis but i think it probably takes at least four to six months if not longer they kind of land on a on a property you want to pursue and seems like another reason we might want to consider pushing this decision off or make it contingent on our funding assumptions being correct of many problems well let's see can we look at the capital the general fund capital list as well i wonder if the citywide wayfinding sign program that is a multiple that's the last phase of that project and that is there's really no criticality to the timing of that it's something to finish but it's not there's no economy of scale to doing it at this point it's another order of signs its installation of those if that didn't happen this fiscal year it wouldn't cost any more the next fiscal year is it that kind of a thing yeah i like the project though to be honest i like trying to finish it it's something that you now kind of have half signs up half signs down and just from kind of completing the plan and kind of seeing it through i'm worried that if we don't it just gets lost over time and you never come back and do it that's just my personal opinion on that one but that is certainly any of these projects are fair game so in the ortega park renovation that is the planning for that effort that is chair harden committee members yes as you know we are just initiated the the first phase of concept master plan development in fact we had our community workshop on saturday we anticipate that by november will be before council with our recommended master plan concept and these funds would be dedicated towards actually moving forward to do they're developing the design plans for the park renovation and what's the approximate cost of the ultimate renovations chair and committe members it really depends on where we where we go the the park hasn't had investment for quite some time whether we come back with recommendations to rebuild a swimming pool for example in that site whether we'll be looking at recommending all synthetic turf fields which are raised is something that's important it'll depend it's certainly a location where phased construction would be possible once we have the whole site planned we wouldn't anticipate necessarily that we'd ever build the whole park in one fell swoop but what is the range of costs for the various planning scenarios chair hart and committe members it could be if it included a pool a couple of million dollars whether we can refurbish what we currently have that's part of what we're looking at right now we have a pool design consultant on board to give us idea of what the options are relative to where existing infrastructure is whether we can what we can reuse there's aspects of the park we can certainly reuse and that will trigger a bunch of different options so we anticipate that we would be back as part of the master plan option presentation with that range of options of park improvements which would also include the scaling of those park improvements so it's a two million dollars as a floor to a five million dollars as a ceiling or chair all right yes and committee members it could be as much as that and it really depends on the scale of the improvements that we put in place one of the great advantages of having synthetic turf fields as we all know as they can be used all the time year round that's not the case that we currently have in any of our parks that have active fields and so there are a number of times out of the year that those parks are closed for that type of use we do also generate revenue when we have programmed use of those areas so it's that balancing of investment to provide a service but then also to generate revenue to support both the programs and the operations ok anybody else have any other questions is the library elevator on this list or the other list ok well that's right thank you i'm i'm hearing from the crowd we're working on the design during fy nineteen and so we're proposed funding in an fy twenty and again we think that is kind of a priority critical just basic facility improvement we need to be there for the library what about the hundred thousand dollars for walkways and building pathways what is that back chair heart yeah that's a an ongoing funding to help support our ad a transition penn's plan so there's ad a transition plan which focuses primarily on facilities buildings and the walkways and pathways or the walkway surrounding buildings historically we use that funding to support some parks projects they often need pathway upgrades and the cabrillo ballparks a good example this year we use some of this fiscal year spending to upgrade the the pathways and  all right well this is a dilemma and i guess mister chair i'd like to hear from the committee if finding five hundred thousand dollars for library plaza as a priority and then let us take the next forty eight hours to give you some recommendations we've kind of heard a little bit of your action so far let me huddle with my staff and see if we can come up with something for you but i'd like to get confirmation that that is a priority that you'd like us yeah i think it a motion would be appropriate so we're real clear move five hundred thousand dollars towards the library plaza project um is there a second councilmember doing this yeah question so the motion was to have staff take a look at this and come back with some proposals okay i would second th all right so do you need direction from us you need direction from us on all of these elements so let's start wherever anybody wants to start with some ideas how we pay for that so just the only thing i would say about that list okay well then i guess we'll just start at the top then the public education coordinator is the next one after the library plaza that council we're doing is i would with it that we recommend that to the full council i'll second okay motion has been made and seconded do are there any thoughts well i guess we're gonna what we're gonna end up doing i think is  supporting all of these things and then leaving it up to staff to figure out a way to pay for it and that's going to come out of reserves and that i think we need to be thinking about that in the context of each of these individual  decisions or we can revisit them when we see the impact of that and if the council discussion about that in the context of everything else so motions councilmember friedman a question on the  on this one is is this sort of full time or is it for a half time councilmember dominguez says his finger up there saying this is for a full time position and this is deford it to the full council discussion and i think the full council should have a discussion on this salsify moving so we're recommending it for the council to approve or we're moving it forward for discussion i think both this just gives staff further certainty that they're not spinning their wheels if it comes to full council obviously that we could even change our minds once it gets there but i think we think there's enough support from the community and the council that i mean clearly with if the council is gonna make a decision on this but we're looking for if to the extent you can make a recommendation on any of these items that council then can hear because we'll be presenting that to them on the th your recommendations well i guess my view is that it is important and it would be great to have it the fact that we have a half time position now is progress and i don't know that we can go all the way to getting everything this budget cycle because i think there's gonna have to be some shaving of these things so i won't support the motion to recommend that we fully fund it but i'll be to adjust accordingly and propose using reserves does anybody want to make a motion on that i'm not sure what that motion would be there i guess they're bringing us mister samari oh yeah i don't think you need a motion of that one i think that's that we just need to do okay they just recognize them that is gonna come out of reserves and then the downtown economic development strategic plan anybody want to make a motion on that i i did bring it forward but in light of all the challenges all i'll make a motion to forward it to the council for consideration but being that there are other priorities interested to see what my colleagues dominguez do you have any thoughts on that or you've already spoken to that i think i share your view this is the kind of thing that would be potentially valuable but there i you know the downtown organization does have a retail study that is on the shelf that has elements that you know really to me are kind of the nuts and bolts of that you start with those you know cleaning up storefronts cleaning up businesses the buildings doing a better job of working with the employers are the downtown businesses on marketing those kinds of things are the basic elements of a economic development strategy strategic plan that ought to be implemented so i won't necessarily support moving this forward your motion is we don't need a motion okay oh just one quick comment on that i think zoning is our is our sharpest tool to address some of the downtown issues so it's not that i wanted to deal with it i really want to deal with it i have a big chunk of downtown in my district but i'm just not sure right now this is the right idea so okay and then finally the visit santa barbara request for additional funding any comments on that so i'll move that forward this to the council for support or support it we needed to tighten with the number is based on the t ot and we can get that by wednesday night or do you need a number from us right now i mean i think it'd be  hundred thousand dollars for that being that there's already another twenty zero they're still going out and we can look at different areas so i move a hundred thousand dollars towards this effort second motions been made and seconded all those in favor say  opposed and abstain no one mister chair and any feedback on spreading it out amongst the different funds yes i think that's a great idea i definitely can make it a nexus argument about waterfront and the benefit that they have the lease holders  number one visited location in the city of santa barbara so you know having that additional one percent on the slip holders revenue is part of the financial viability of the harbor that makes a lot of sense to me anybody else have any comments about that i agree and then there was one little item i think that's hanging out there well there's the street trees issue i don't know that we can recommend that does anybody want to make a motion about that this is i think ninety five thousand dollars of additional funding that potentially would come out of measure c but to be determined i'm concerned about i mean i want we need to do this this is been lagging with the drought but you know taking the money out recommend just that idea although you may be mentioned it and be not supportive context but yeah i would i would because it is on the order of fifteen plus million dollars that we're putting into streets and payments and this is ninety five and  does represent value to the city i would support that i would make a motion that we accept that okay the motion has been made is there a second i'll second that okay motion has been made and seconded all those in favor say  no matter carries two to one and then there is one last item that isn't necessarily a cost element but it was raised by the creeks advisory committee and that is a little bit more clarification about street sweeping and revenues and expenditures i know there's an old memo from public works from two thousand and fifteen that kind of describes how that works i would like to see staff update that bring us more current information explain exactly how the street tree or street sweeping revenues are allocated to the creeks division so to make sure that there's real clarity on that and that would be something that could just come along later as an item maybe to the finance committee or to the council as a memo is there anything else that we need to