i'm shelley he's jim and we're really glad to be back here and thank you for having us ground zero grew out of the first pacific life community which grew out of resistance to the vietnam war pacific life community was founded by a bunch of burned out vietnam war resisters who really didn't want anything else to do with nonviolent action because it had been debilitating and so hard on our family life and are just general psychological survival to spend the time and energy we did in the way that we did resisting the vietnam war and there was a catholic worker house in seattle and jim and i were up in vancouver b c and we all knew each other from work and we were all kind of burned out a good word so we weren't doing that kind of work anymore in the war was over so you know it felt like that was all right and into the middle of this kind of depressed and depressing scenario came somebody you've already heard of many times i'm sure robert al rich who had been a witness at a trial that we had in hawaii for some resistance actions that jim and two other people did against the air war in hawaii and that's a whole other long story which we won't go into but bob aldridge come to that trial as a witness back in those days there was or as a representative in those days there was a group called the national association of laity these were the heydays of the catholic democratic and it was kind of a sort of a labor union and they took all kinds of progressive stands and supported good work and they had sent a representative to support us in the trial of the hickam three who were on trial for  felony charges for porn blood in the air force base there and so bob aldrich came he was the representative and we had the equivalent of the speaking that you had around the trial that lynn was part of where after the court we go and we hear the expert witnesses in a public forum and i was supposed to just read this little statement of support one night and before him spoke our international lawyer was talking about how the n t personnel weapons that we used in vietnam or a war crime and how we had an obligation as citizens to oppose that kind of work crime and then didn't i think that my dan berrigan spoke to he wrote a poem about an anti personnel weapons and then you know this that was the evening really but bob was supposed to get up and read this little statement and he got up and it was a big auditorium at the university of hawaii and he went to the podium and he kind of you know shifted and clears throat and then he went and sat down and we thought boy this guy is the most stage fright we've ever seen but we were involved in the trial so we went through the trial we had the verdict and people got sentenced to probation and that was a long struggle and we didn't think a whole lot more above aldridge until a couple of years later when we were living in canada and he called i think it was and said he wanted to come and visit us and we said sure that be nice so he came up and he told us this incredible story he said he didn't have stage fright that night the reason that he couldn't talk was because he was designing a nuclear weapon the trident he was designing  for the tri tip in santa clara at lockheed and as he listened to the testimony about an anti personnel weapons he realized that he was a bigger work criminal than anybody at hickam because of what the trying to do if it was ever used and because it was a first strike system which was new at the time so that's why he couldn't talk he just suddenly had this overwhelming conviction that my god that's me so when did he do he didn't go home and get drunk or you know climbing a ladder he went home and he and his family bob and janet were good catholics they had eight or ten kids and i forget how many there a lot of kids the oldest ones were in college and mark the youngest one was like three or four at the point at that point and bob had been the breadwinner and janet had been the homemaker and that was their division of labor well they went that advent as as a family they went on a retreat together and they all came together and decided that they didn't want their lifestyle if it had to be supported by designing tried it and so buck quit after i don't know how many years a lot of years at lockheed and janet went back to work teaching and they took a major cut in their income and their lifestyle of course because a weapons designer at lockheed makes a heck of a lot more than a teacher and as a family they decided to do this and they carried it through and so bob came to visit us and told us the story and we were of course very moved by it and we hadn't heard as many times as some of you have heard it but it was very moving and then bob said and do you know where the trying it system will be home ported and we never heard of the it system and he said it will be near seattle washington oh we're in vancouver b c which is practically so you know for all intents and purposes next door and then he took off stunned because he's handed the ball to us in the balls in your court what are you going to do with it so what we did was we call the meeting of the school of theology vancouver school of theology where i was studying was in january of seventy five and the catholic worker folks from seattle came up and we gathered some folks from vancouver and we talked about you know how do you live with this kind of knowledge and do something meaningful about it and not kill yourself in the process because we had come close in a at least a spiritual way to killing ourself in the process during the vietnam war and what we came up with after several days of discussion we decided we would live an experiment in nonviolence because we felt first of all bob was an example to us well for two reasons one he was the designer of the missile and he was the one who blew the whistle on it and two he led the way by the simplification of lifestyle that made it possible for them to leave that kind of work so there were two things right there to try to defend our lifestyle so if we're going to keep the lifestyle we have we need trying to defend ourselves george kennan said but he didn't say it about trite and he said we have to realize we're six percent of the world's population and we're consuming i forget what thirty five or fifty percent of the world's goods and so we're going to have to defend and stop all this balderdash about building democracy the point is we defend our stuff so we thought well the only way we can get really get out of this we didn't just want to stop trying and have them build something else we wanted to figure out a way to live that we wouldn't need to be defending our lifestyle with any kind of weapons so we had a commitment as a community to a two pronged experiment in nonviolence one side would be personal transformation along the lines  gandhi and transformation where we try to understand our own interior tridents our own interior violence that made us oppress each other racism sexism you know all of the isms that we talked about and the political side of the experiment would be a public witness against the trident and so we would meet on one side of the border and the other every month and anywhere from ten to maybe thirty people would come to those meetings and we would have some issue of personal violence and nonviolence this was the olden days you know things were the women's movement was fairly young and we would do things like give everybody so many matchsticks and when you didn't have any more match sticks you couldn't talk and it was amazing you know how quickly the men couldn't talk most profit but that did two things you know it kept the men are aware of how much they talk but also made us aware of how much we counted on being able to say well we didn't make that decision so if it goes wrong it's not our responsibility so we did that sort of thing and we planned education civil disobedience kinds of actions reese's resistance all the things that we thought would raise the issue for people and we were a very small community taking on the u s government and trying to a weapon system we had we had no money  most of us in vancouver we had a community house called shanty house and ten of us who were the primary p l c people lived in the house and we all worked for five hours a week and pooled our income and that's what funded the house and the work that we did and we had the kids we shared childcare and stuff so we didn't have a big budget for this campaign but we at that time had a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of hope because we thought if we could follow gandhi's way of a campaign and experiments with the truth of a whole revolution not just the government not just putting some somebody different in power but getting rid of the power over and making it a circle of power with sharing with then there was really hope for the world some kind of change and so we did all kinds of things to try an experiment with that we had we had the trident monster and we brought some pictures of the try to monster it was poles with rope on them as long as they try to submarine which is two football fields more or less and it had a plastic garbage bag on it for every warhead and we marched at through first through downtown vancouver and you know it's quite a lesson to try and maneuver something that's two foot walking through a street so it was it was a very big thing and there was a march and rally and tried it concerned day in the city of vancouver and then we brought it down to the peace arch peace arch park at the border and we had interdependent stays at peace arch park and jonah denny were there and we brought water from each side of the border and mingled it and her gilbert  he had gold horning things coming up in a big cape and he called himself the venetian and he oversaw all the mingling of the waters of the united states and canada to make peace and then we brought to try to monster down here i mean went to gate which is up the road it's evident you no longer used as a gate because it's all blocked off and we cut the fence and we took trident home into the base so that was civil resistance or disobedience or whatever you want to call it and people were arrested and we had trials and we did all kinds of defenses and and rallies we went to jail in those days we're going to the county jail primarily king county jail we did that twice i think we brought to try to monster home and the the second time we had an overnight camp out and people camped along the fence and you know the base was kind of worried because we'd already cut the fence once so roger street manner i believe and maybe shoni sat up against the pillars of the gate all night by the fire and they had files behind their backs and they filed the fence so the next morning when we were ready to take the trying it monster on the base we need down the fence which went down so that was that was helpful so these are all things you know obviously we're we're nipping at the heels of the empire you know we're not blowing things up but we were raising the issue we're going to fair amount of coverage for that and we have a lot of educational backing and we did our homework we really studied the arms race and the try to that system and what it meant and what it meant to the arms race and to world peace and we were able to talk about that and write about that we did a fast at the b c legislature to try and get them to take a stand against trident using canadian waters and we actually had approval of all the legislators to do it but it whoever was in charge of tabled the motion so i never got called but it was a very helpful and moving experience and it educated a lot of people about trying to when we first started talking about trying to people would say well what's wrong with sugar her but after maybe two years people knew and we got to the point where we would come down here to the base mainly from seattle vancouver people would converge here for big actions and we'd have a big march we got to know dorothy and gerry peterson whose farm was being taken over for the freeway and they were supported we tried to support them and we would use their land for the march and people would trespass on the base and that was civil disobedience and there would be trials in jail and it was really very exhilarating to do all that you know was like standing up for what we believed kind of being out there in public and taking a risk for what we believed and we realized eventually that we weren't relating at all with the people here and kids and that in fact we were looking at kids up people as the enemy and we didn't see that then soviet union so much as the enemy we were feeling enmity with the folks who lived along clear creek road or wherever and they were feeling that for us and we found that out especially strongly one summer what year was sent seventy seven we did what we called bangor summer which was a takeoff on mississippi summer you might remember that where people went south to register voters we borrowed some land that was down on highway sixteen because that was the closest land anybody would loan us and we had a camp out all summer and we did workshops on nonviolence and sexism and racism and all of the issues and then we would come up here and hand out leaflets to the workers and vigil outside the old main gate which was at that point and we've got to talking with local people and we found out that just because we came here a lot didn't mean we were transforming anything in terms of creating this sharing and egalitarian revolution we were talking about so some of us in p l c started talking about we called it owning a piece of the rock we thought well maybe we need to be neighbors rather than invaders of kids  county and there was a an initial ground zero collective that was i think nine people joe means was one of them john williams if you know john the two of us and lucia smith mueller ruth hood from bellingham a very good bunch of folks came together and we came over here we had no money you know you don't have money when you do this but we came over here and we looked for land and we found one piece of land it fell through and then we found this piece of land three point eight acre sharing coming fence with the bangor base and we sent out a letter saying what we wanted to do and we got some very interesting responses we found one buridan's when we were cleaning out her stuff to come here that said well we don't really think this is a good idea you should be in the inner city with the poor her but we allot of people did think it was a good idea and of course dan and phil changed their minds after a while but we were able to buy the land and we came down to use it as a you know like a summer camp maybe we'd come down and organize and be here for a couple of days or week or even a couple of weeks and eventually we realize that's not being a neighbor you know you can't be a neighbor if you're not there so at that point bob aldridge gave us another kick he came to visit us and said that he was really worried because he kept trying to tell people trying a first strike system it's meant to start a nuclear war not not to defend it's not destruction when you're doing trident because it's so accurate and so highly explosive the only reason for that kind of capability is if you're trying to hit the site the missiles in the silos before they're fired and that's a first strike so he was feeling very discouraged because he couldn't convince the peace movement that this was a whole new thing in that we should be really concerned and get more active about it and so jim and i talked about it and we thought well what can we do to respond to that concern and the only thing we could think of was well we can move to kids have county and sort of be the toehold safer ground zero and kids have county so we did that in seventy eight we came down and we stayed in the funky old house while we look for a place and we found a little trailer over and see back that we rented on our son tom who is first grade and went to school here so we became neighbors literally neighbors of the folks who were in the county and tom went to school and you know i volunteered at the library and tom played soccer and we did all the neighborly things and so we got to know folks and because we were here we were able to do a lot of contact building we had we knew some people who were sympathetic like durian velvety who i thought might be here sometime this week lives down in pauls and she would invite neighbors in for coffee and we'd go in we made a slide show these were in the days you know when you you had your mailing list on three by five and you had a slideshow and changed you know when you had to take it somewhere to get  the elop all that kind of stuff so in the slideshow that we had made and we written out of a script and we had little red dots when you were supposed to hit the change button you know and we'd read it and hit the dots and tell about the arms race and about  nonviolence and our concerns and why we were here and what we were trying to do in kids have county and we go anywhere anybody would have us church group you know coffee group whatever we'd go in show the slide show and then we were handing out leaflets to the workers as they went into the base differently foot every week which was done for years and we were here for twelve years and it went years beyond the time we left and that was a major kind of communication and the workers would write back sometimes and then we would print their answers and hand them out and then we would answer and hand that out and thanksgiving we made bread and we leafleted bread and just all kinds of things on labor day carol children used to  collect cartoons and we'd have like a fun labor day leaflet with whole collection of cartoons we just did all kinds of things to try and engage people in a sympathetic way but also confrontational and at the same time we were getting arrested and committing civil disobedience and the leafleting and itself was civil disobedience for a long time they didn't want us to leave and it was a major issue getting arrested every week for handing out leaflets and going to court and arguing and sometimes serving jail time sometimes not but you know keeping at it until we kind of carved out a little space for first amendment communication and the workers from the base would come and testify that they wanted these leaflets it wasn't like they didn't want them so that was all just kind of ferment all the time together and we were looking at gandhi as our model and trying to figure out how gandhi and nonviolence with total respect for the other person and looking for the truth that the other person has and yet at the same time offering your life in opposition to the destruction in the violence that was going on how does that transfer at that time to conceptually in the seventy's and eighty's so there were lots of intense discussions and fair number of disagreements and you know the community would split and then people would come in then we would work some more and then there'd be another disagreement and sometimes it would split again and sometimes it wouldn't but there were many times when there were only two people or three people who were here and kids to kind of carry on the full time work of the campaign so we just kept at it we are we did all those demonstrations with the trespass on to the base we did all kinds of trespass we rode in we swam in we climbed the fence we went on to have picnics we you know there was one we used to do this in conjunction with the seebeck conference at the f o or had we'd go to the conference and part of the conference would be planning the action and then the training the nonviolence training and one year after we'd done it three or four years we had a delegation from our kids who came to us and said this is not fair because you're always saying that you're doing this for us but you never let us do anything they want to get arrested too so we thought about the act and we decided well they had a point so we actually planned an action where the kids trespas with us and we had contacted whoever i forgotten who we needed to contact and we had it all set up so there was somebody for each child at the gate who had a form that they were in charge and we all got arrested together and the kids got released and you know this is a very at this point we have quite a relationship with them so they're willing to work with us and other kids still talk about that some sometimes time they got a rest but we just did all kinds of things to try and raise the issue put our lives on the line but not in such a way that we were hostile to the people doing the work and as a result of that a lot of them left their jobs some of them i'm sure we still don't know but you know archbishop one house and you heard about talked about to try to sound not long after he did that a guy pulled up to jim who was leafleting an old man at that time and said he wanted to talk to him and when they got together and the guy said one day becker i'm the chaplain the catholic base and he would give a sermon when we could give a very kind of confrontational sermon about the sermon on the mount and peace and everything in the next week he'd be very conciliatory and pastoral and he'd go back and forth as a process to try to raise the issue and eventually he did leave the navy and he i think it was dave who burned his commission here at ground zero we had a ceremony for him when he left and there was gerald thompson who came to a gathering  sounds when we first moved here and was quite hostile to all our facts and figures and got called out on the emergency halfway through our talk and we found out later that he worked in the weapons area and the emergency had to do with its we didn't know that at the time and two years later i think it was doreen told us that one of the confirmation classes at the church and paul's beau had had their old thompson come in and talk to them about the trident and the just war theory and how nuclear weapons could be justified as part of catholic teaching and she said that was really interesting because you know he gave his talk and the kids listened and they had some questions and finally one kid said well if you were out on the submarine and you got the order to push the button would you do it and she said their old was quiet for a long time and then he finally said yeah i would do it and then i would probably go crazy and we didn't hear anything from darryl for maybe a couple more years and then he called called the trailer i think and said i want to ask you to pray for me because i'm leaving my job and he quit and he was unemployed for a long time but  never went back to bangor and works in peace oriented stuff now and we found out he was a eucharistic minister on a submarine and kind of the final thing for him was when he realized that the key to launch that missile was in the same safe as the host so it was just like what and that was what that's when he decided to leave so they were all these incredible stories  incredible people doing amazing things and no money just on faith and living here and jim and i bought the tracks house and i have to say i did not want to buy the tracks house i did not want to move closer to the trident base i did not want to live over the tracks where the weapons would go when i thought i was just fine thank you very much it's nice nice distance from the base nice mountains to look at but it's pretty hard to say no the term and so we wound up moving and living in the tracks house which i think now is empty down by the river track skate of the base and that was when we began to see the trains going in we knew about the missile motors a solid fuel propellant coming on trains and then eventually we realized the weight train was coming with the nuclear weapons and so we had that whole process of organizing a community along the tracks was going on or always just looking at this stuff and thinking how can we respond just as human beings how can we respond to this horrible stuff without losing our humanity and so we were always meeting as communities we made all our decisions by consensus which sometimes almost killed us we shared childcare we did you know just all the things that you can do to try and make your life human and there was one other thing i was going to stick in there before i hand this over was it oh the p almost an as soon as we came to ground zero there was a young buddhist monk from japan named suzuki who came with us and we would do things like christmas carols for the neighbors and we people went door to door and greeted the neighbors and s chant and one day says you came and he was really excited he said group g who is the founder of his order now mind you we're totally ignorant we don't know who guruji is we don't know what the order is we just know that there's this nice guy named suzuki who is with us and  st francis in this century for buddhists and a bunch of monks and nuns and this very weird eclectic gathering of no mennonites and catholics and quakers and whoever we could pull together at the same time as ronald reagan was being elected and we heard talk about peace and he walked around and at that time he could walk people helped him walk around and he said yes this is a good place for that for a peaceful go to in america because it's right next to this huge concentration of violence which is the point of the go to is to kind of counter that and be a witness to the opposite and we had lots of monks here at one point we had gotten permits from the county to build a park ota and we had a geodesic dome which was kind of slapped together and didn't fit anybody's code and the neighbors eventually got very upset and they organized concerned about the pagoda which was a counterweight to concerned about right and which was organized here and they did a lot of public education and they told people about the threat of the pagoda and they did they did all the same things we did but they had a lot more clout and so we wound up not being able to have permits we had all hearings and kinds of things and at the same time the first trident was coming in so we were planning the peace blockade which jim will talk about and all these things are going on at the same time you know people are getting really upset because kids at county isn't this nice bucolic military fortress that used to be so we went out without permission to build the go to but we had a very strong community between the ground zero community and the buddhist monks and one symbol of that and i'm not even sure if people are aware of in the geodesic dome when it was still here we had a beautiful gold plated buddha that had that was maybe as big had been sent from japan especially for our pagoda here to go in the pit go to and it was waiting in on an altar in the dome until the go to it was finished and we also had a handmade kind of modern art metal crucifix that someone had made for christian worship here and so they were both in the in the dome and we used the place for joint worship and one night somebody went into the dome and smashed all the statues with an axe we think they smashed him anyway and set fire to the place and it burned down and we were very lucky there were no monks sleeping in there because they often would sleep in there so it was just very providential or whatever that nobody was killed but what happened out of that well several things happened one was that the people who were doing all the really hostile talking were kind of taken aback because this is what came from that kind of talking the neighbors who were talking about how we were invading and you know we were going to do all these horrible things realize this is what it led to this was the obvious response was well kill him or burn him to earn their own down or whatever the other thing was since we couldn't build the pagoda we built stupa which is here now and in the base of the stupa are the ruins of the buddha and the crucifix together so it's like cementing literally cementing the bonds between these two face to work for peace and that's kind of where it is now i think i don't know if i'll ever actually get to build go to stoop a stands there as a sign of hope and also of the joint community so i'm going to let you pick thank they year before the the u s s ohio the first flight of the submarine arrived it was a two that's the whole key to this nonviolent transformation that we seek because the community is shelly was saying is on both sides of the fence if it's not on the other side of the fence as what was on this side of the fence we can forget the whole thing it has to be a community that overcomes this fence not only by climbing over it per cutting through it periodically and going to jail but also all by becoming one with the community on the other side of the fence and in describing the lea process that was one of the real key to the campaign at that stage because as as she was saying when we were first coming into kitsap county we and they were we and they there was this tension there was this conflict between the role of local residents and the people of ground zero but things would get mixed up you know when we were leafleting and when we were being arrested and at the point where the leaflets accepted by the the base workers went from you know a few dozen when it refitted and so forth and also for a while we were also passing out leaflets at the key port or p t o station so we were getting a lot of information out and a lot of relationship building and yet also all of the tensions were rising because of it becoming very public which we wanted it to be that we were going to blockade the first had i think a total of nineteen row boats a number of which were built in port counts and to leave the but all of our robots were were constructed or brought to us by people in the campaign  was some of us can't even swim you have right so we're trying to stop the trident submarine so fortunately we got some assistance in this process from the british navy two officers of the british navy came to our assistance and one of them was became the captain of the he was the he and his spouse or the owners of the pacific peacemaker a ship was it australia or new zealand australia they face they sell their ship all the way from australia and demonstrated against the french nuclear testing in  community and so the french got it first in terms of the resistance of the city peacemaker and then this this pope this pacific peacemaker sailboat wound up here captained by a veteran of the royal navy he'd been in it for twenty years and he was one of our skippers and so he told us what we had to do and which side of the boat was starboard and when you know that this sort of thing and then had the pacific peacemaker and the lizard of was and about eighteen robots to stop the trident submarine and the strategy was extremely sophisticated the pacific peacemaker had the the duckling strategy because the there were there were long ropes that were going to be that were i mean we practiced for so we couldn't we couldn't even practice down in this area we had to go north of the now and the pacific peacemaker had these two long ropes and then the row boats were strung up you know like ducklings behind mother duck call it was called kamikaze so we would we would just the lizard a was would go right in front of the try to sub and then we had very tiny boats there only single person boats and those are the water so we'd all throw our boats in to the water this is what we were going to do and stop the u s s ohio the united states government took the seriously i they sent ninety nine coast guard boats to stop us ninety nine that was the entire coast guard fleet pacific coast guard fleet of the united states government and they had these huge security zones which were it was a felony to go in the ne of the mountains over the other side and there are all these you know airplanes were flying over so all the time and it was you know it was either ridiculous or terrifying if you couldn't figure out which half the time you think is ridiculous and there were there was i remember on the road you know over here you know there's all this discussion about that you know what's going to happen soon you know this confrontation that we're there was a tank going up and down the road you know the national guard it was and that's when the that's when the dome was burned in the midst of all of all of this when the when the dome was burning and thanks to glenn known or we know actually who burned the don't now many many years later from it through a freedom of information act request it was you know the ace said they had no knowledge of anything and so afraid of information act request done by the greatest investigative journalist lads who did they were they were high security guards within the base the start of the nuclear weapons area and they came in and burned down the yeah and then they covered up was to occur on august the eighth had looked up to date which wound up being providentially four days before you know we had to plan these things of course months and months and months in advance for a submarine that the navy has total control over  providentially this rally which wound up being attended by a thousand people in the tribal land north of here first of all where are we going to have the rally in kitsap county you know for all the people want to come to help stop the trident submarine who couldn't actually go out on the water with our rowboat fleet so we were trying to find you know they got private property up and down go or who what private landowners going to give us a cite you know by the water for thousands of people to come the native american community appeared did and  went to see them and they said you know this is quite a thing you're asking us to do you know to allow us to you know to to permit you to use our land for a great big rally against the tide and submarine he said and we said sure and they are how can we help you and they said well we've got this baseball team and they said we'd like to get some uniforms for our youth for their baseball team can they do the research freshman's for your rally oh sure so so they did the refreshments for the rally and got really nice uniforms for their baseball team and eight thousand people came in and  archbishop raymond one housing of course was so profoundly supportive of the try to campaign with the speaker bishop talbert from the methodist church the church council greater seattle was told really supportive of the trident campaign and of the resistance to the u s s ohio they took their own boat out they didn't blockade the submarine but they did vigils back and forth up above these are the and the united church of canada which is shelley's church at that in those  days will get further to what they did in commissioning you to do something actually they did that earlier did and then yeah well the first thing they did was that the united church of canada commission shelley to be a peace missionary to the united states of america and she has been ever since she was she would have been ordained in the united church of canada had she not come down here to two courses short of her research her receiving her diploma at the vancouver school of theology because she left out to come down here and to devote her life to peacemaking united church of canada commissioner to do that and then they sent off the coast of the of the bit of the base and just see how hung out there for a while so a lot of good things were were were happening and the and the tension was building so all right so it comes to the day and our fleet and all of us were arrested boarded arrested trussed up kind of like pigs and a couple of the the circle around the titan submarine we did not stop the trident submarine but in the course of the of the weeks leading up to it the the  consciousness of the whole pacific northwest and actually bigger than that was raised immensely every day was a big story a big story waiting for the u s s ohio the rowboats versus the united states government's greatest weapons system so what could have been a celebration of the end of the world basically became a dramatic raising of consciousness about the question of are we going to destroy our world through this kind of thing because a lot of information got out during that period of time august twel eighty two was the day that the u s s ohio came into the trident base and august eighth was the date of the the big rally and what happened to the sta we were using the closest land in them to their title slants where we weren't enough land for all the people who were coming on a fairly narrow beach we had to time to really so that the tide would be out concerned about the pagoda and who were also folks were they were also picketing ground zero by the way they could be our wednesday night meetings concerned about the poor go there was it was an interesting time which is that each of the members of the police department just like each of the workers on the base or members of the united states navy is the sisters and brothers and since we saw a lot of them in court you know they would come to testify against us or in some cases to testify on our behalf because they wanted to receive the leaflets even if they didn't agree with them on we did we've developed relationships and the kids at county police wound up non cooperating with the united states navy because they realized they were being exploited i mean they kitsap county and was having to pay the the bells for all these arrests and we work against the kitsap county police in fact we're telling them when the trains were coming when the train started coming we're trying to help them with their arrests which was for on us and the base wouldn't tell them anything you know and so the school here and was taught by dirk glycine mary's brother we moved into that house after knocking on the door for me i'd say about a couple years or so and  asked are you going to rent or sell your house who ever lived there we would rent you know and you know what no we want to run are so hot and eventually knocking on the door there was nobody there and we traced the owners over and were able to purchase the house which had been honed originally by the the guy who was in charge of the whole railroad the station master so it was a the house right over the tracks coming into the try that base one reason to get that house and was to to have our eyes open our eyes open we didn't know exactly what we're going to see we knew that they were there something i mean it ended up in the trident base so we knew something important would happen and then we started our vigil in and we saw first that the missile mortar propellant he's highly propellant weapons that glenn has been doing huge research on and that have husic huge explosive arcs and that the aga baked immunity forms all along the tracks back to the salt lake city utah and they work at least for hercules corporation that built those weapons the missile propellant fluid and then one day we were we received a phone call from our reporter who said you know i saw a strange train up in everett washington coming south and i think it had probably had some weapons on it and you might want to check it out because i've heard you live by the railroad tracks there and we received that call one morning and i walked down the stairs the steps in front of our house right to the railroad tracks which are which were less than there was sixty seven feet i think seventy feet we're actually inside the trident base part of our house they had you know not surveyed the land properly so the phone that we received the call from was actually on the try that there is so that i got to the bottom of the early steps there was a train coming in a heavily armored the boom to the boom to the boom and these huge cars within you know after the these long lol white cars heavily armored everything heavily armored and these great big cars into question deeply enough to follow it to the point where you knock on the door and the door is opened your eyes are opened and that was the beginning of the campaign the stage as the white train of course what goes in you know like a mouse going into a hole comes out so by the time the train came out thanks to a man named tom ronson whom you know because he's a great artist of song who is also a railroad boss and who knows all the tracks all across the united states we'd set up a network of along all of those tracks follow the train where did it come from so when the train came out we traced it back to amarillo texas to the pentax plant where all the nuclear weapons made in the united states are assembled and from that point on we tracked every train that came north from there to try that base and a woman named petty sawatsky a very dedicated mennonite woman she put her life on the line by moving to amarillo texas to live there and watched for the train full time leaving that plant so that she could begin the process of phoning hundreds upon hundreds of towns and cities along the tracks on all the different possible routes and that's that chuck's campaign and that's how it developed over the years and so then the question was how do you stop the train first how do you stop the submarine and we had all kinds of struggles around that you know because it's not a question of physically stop and anything and yet it is and there is this tension when you see the white train just like when you see the trident submarine knowing what's in it when you see is a train that is carrying six times the power of the second world war two hundred hydrogen bombs each of them you know capable of what dave hall was telling us this morning that huge huge blast east each of them the whole train capable of destroying the entire world you get very very and we had a very difficult questions to face on how we stop the train that went on for years and the train did eventually stop but it stopped through a process of change and of nonviolence whereby we finally realized through the depths of the teaching of martin luther king of gandhi of jesus of the buddha that the people in the train just like the people in the submarine and the people