welcome welcome very much to a continuation of the program that aired earlier or yesterday in terms of m and m here where the motto come on a long veteran at the well intellectual understanding of the human condition from his o life but also for forty years as their combat center of pakistan to the united nations and we're talking about the human condition and be evolving challenges to the human society  and we had our visit second our welcome back to conversations my pleasure we had that program we were talking about things in general terms and everything and you said you turned it kicked off what it is you think we ought to talk about now which would be some of the realities maybe you could pick off some of those you thought are worth are considering in the second part part of the program well we have a number of global problem in the world today i'm going to identify about a dozen of them as major problems the first and by far the most important is the confrontation that is taking place between the concept of nationalism and the concept to nationalism and build a sort of a front door to war and on the country and of course the united states can afford to do that because it is a very powerful country three thousand miles of water on both sides so it can afford it but we live in a wood in which unfortunately we are all linked to each other in every tube yeah and so this effort to deny globalization and to go towards nationalism is in my judgment not going to survive and we will come back to the original concept of the global into action interconnected very interesting because we're all becoming united by the technology the information technology and you are an expert in terms of understanding that because we've done programs with you before talking about the implications of the internet and all of the information technology emerging exponentially into the world indeed that is so but other than this conflict between globalisation and nationalism there is something very funny which is happening in the world of today which is that the state  school or the the continuation of greed systems is being questioned suddenly by everybody and everyone and so in the past if you wanted to question something people would come to you and say why do you want that done now if you want to question people come to you and say why not and so people not accepting new ideas yet not the new but the questioning our waiting and so on people are doing we human beings have evolved to have violence for the sake of violence we love fighting with each other we love expanding we want to be dominant we want to go and conquer and that has increased the level of violence did with you that they are according to research or expense we don't know for sure because they keep it in a certain sense secret but it's particularly in the weapons of destruction on the nuclear front thermonuclear try to inspire liars by the united states of america and need bottom of the atlantic ocean that the weapons are such in nature and in wave weapons and other kinds of weapons that are developed which was the means by which apparently in modeling of destroying or could be creating conditions at our own hand that would make it impossible for the homo sapiens species to survive much like the sixty five million years ago did in wrecks and so forth that it ruled up until then and made way for something new and that that's the case that it's reached a point of qualitative not just quantitative change in through investment the richer country is going to invest in building up industries in the poorer countries and that is very profitable because liberty is cheap and the border countries on it can be done through trade and trade that and it was about ten years ago spencer wells young fellow down at national geographic he's still running the thing down there and they had me do a thing and i sent it in and it came back and i have markers markers on the and they had warned it was sixty thousand years ago this is what i understood spencer was a major guy is really good on this question that that is relating to an individual may alludes it's sixty thousand years ago and where he mean anglo saxon protestant you know up into india i mean up into england and that they came into the present and that's scientific understanding of the migration route of my ancestry which is scientifically validate that people could make these stories up and so forth in the past but now is based upon scientific understanding of the pattern of the planet and the people ling of the plan the next major problem that we're having in the global hood is the growth psychologist or then they went into india india was thirty five percent of the global economy and to picked up all the factories in india lock stock and barrel and took them to manchester and leeds in britain and reduced india from thirty five percent of the google economy to three percent of the global that's a big drop and then they went into china and converted to whole country into a bunch of opium eaters and so this is the european contribution and i'm dreaming that's right well that's my because nobody is willing to sit back and die and so you have these huge movements of refugees which is we are trying to control by what we call immigration restrictions like building a terrorism is growing that people are not going to accept to be condemned to early death and so they will react people don't like die early and so they will try to move out in order to survive for longer because men had to go muscles they don't have better brains and in fact if you examine the physical to find a woman with think they have a very less cultured  managed have been men have been used to dominate movement because of the ticket muscles now does that have anything to say about the nature of the universe or anything like that or the nature of reality there's a male function and he will function in terms of all of evolution some people are better off than others were said in the earlier program you did with you there's about twelve or twenty people or something like that on practically all the capital in the world you notice that very very concentrated ownership of the capital assets that are responsible for technological production and increasingly does not need human import labor to produce the product it's going to be independent of that yes but there was a time recently yeah within the past few years  economic theory izing that is preparing our universities with classes and so forth about justice and so forth and it is the idea that you know the labor theory of value is something that informed keynes and the people who set up the national bridge brenton boards and everything there is soon being that the major import to production is labor and labor has been important in terms of their per their contribution to production historically you had to have people to pick the cotton you had to have people to plough the fields you had to have the labor to produce wealth now it's getting to the point at least this is what the intellectual understanding of things is it's now the technology in animate technology will not meet the labor that they had to have i was in detroit everest and they had my grandfather was a person who had been henry ford used to tinker in my grandmother's garage they set up an assembly line everybody could come to their line to turn and not all day long they do some repetitive thing that is called labor production that they then get rewarded for by having a part of a role in production that labor import to the production writ large is now becoming put on the dustbin of history it's now the capital instruments are going to be productive without the need of labor employed yes but so the distribution of buying power to the masses of the people has only been through their labor production the labor theory of value all of the communist and socialist thinking is to reify the idea that labor is so important but it's becoming undercut by the technological development so how are  to get buying power into the hands of people when they're not lead as service as they were in a feudal estate or as laborers in the modern economy which is a problem how we're going to be buying power in their hands of they're not needed in order to clear the market of the the changes taking place on pretty you notice that in the recent elections in the united states more and more women are coming into politics because this is a week on trust you meant that's a big issue this time come around and rightly so because why should tough of people pollution of the would be relegated to a secondary position and so no but not that if i mean how are we going to get buying power distributed to the masses of the people who have been in true of the world you had a few people in the castle that everybody else was served they did what they were told they were peasants as it were and how are we going to get it to where we're going to have buying power distributive people when they're not needed as service or as people slaves on a feudal estate or and a few people on everything like caesar did and so forth how are we going to get buying power into the hands of the people when the technological capability to produce a massive extract surplus capability to provide life support to people when they're not needed as serfs you don't have to do anything about it it will  theory will provide that we're already going to get over the labor theory of value that informs most of all leftwing thinking is hope the important labor is to the productive process it's going to be eliminated as necessary from production of material goods and female all that kind of stuff this is something that's coming with much larger than that how are we going to form capital that's going to produce wealth technologically and when the capital ownership is what gets money own of the thing th producing it rather than the labor the laborers are not going to be needed so how are we going to justify distributing buying power to the masses to buy the good things that can be produced within a technologically well organized society because we're ok ok you want to but i think that's a minor thing compared to the fact that you're the people as laborers or as workers are distributed you go you get a job you get paid you get paid for that and that's how they distribute buying seventy five million years ago it was a forty five million years ago yucatan thing did in all the dinosaurs made way for us ok now we're coming into that kind of a change it's like we're coming into a new way of being that can't be seen from the historical pattern you know but at the moment the dinosaurs the men who have tried to deny the future to women and so well that is that's just superior entity in terms of the propagation of the species and so you would find you're going to have money and money distributed to people by how many children they have to go to the exact opposite now they just starve and that is because you are not producing enough children you know that many developed societies ok well maybe we're just talking about something different i think it's beyond that the women are not going to be able to have a job they're going to go to to help burden of production because they're exponentially now that it's creating a system where you need something other than the traditional economic theory is that keynes or marx or whoever we go by are thinking in terms of talking about men and women within the old way of thinking that th beyond absorptive capacity of human beings and so we find that it is more and more difficult to adjust to the changes and one of the fascinating things is to go to a school yeah for kindergarten school and you find and that's growing exponentially again and as that happens yeah this is a major change yet which is taking place in the wood and the question is is the speed of this change controllable or uncontrollable because going to be able to adjust to the speed or you are not going to humanity in general i don't think we've come to that point yet in terms of our economic fear arising about ai we're going to organize the private yes in terms of what's emerging not in terms of what potential increasing of the technology is going to be in a sense taking on a life of its own but the question is not i mean for adequately address the question is how can you as a human being except computer looking foster and better than you what are you going to say ok how about if that slave computer that's doing that is providing a material way of life that is far better for all of the kids everybody's got food to eat everybody's nobody's going to have to work for somebody to be able to eat it's not always zero sum for wonder when somebody else has to lose that kind of thinking is what is my enemy to the almost sapient species evolutionary process if you get to be where everybody is involved in it like a hundred trillion cells in a human organism i think we mentioned it before every cell matters every sense as an addict and they work as a system so we've got to get it liberated humanity to get to a new level of being that is almost like not just merely another change in history it's without troubling to me that's outdated or not think but i think that's the challenge before us it is not being addressed by our intellectual community traveled a lot in africa i know you have and the only people who access to information as the president of the most powerful country in the was is that amazing isn't it a major tsunami thing and so on people who know know that they have access to information and that they c use that information and that has created what i think is a negative result which is instant democracy everybody could i would just press a button and send a message to a million people  that you can just accept and say ok let's have instant dollars you could be in the woman say i'm going to leave here it's warm and nice and everything but all the sudden there you are in another room that would be like a process maybe is too much to think that we're coming to the do you think we're at the end of an evolutionary principle in the universe there's homo sapiens species or is there an order a larger order to things that we may be coming into we're leaving the womb of our humanities time i do you have to improve your brains to be a dispute of computers oh you have to slow down computers to work at the speed of your brain so maybe we can get caught co operation between the two of them going it can we get a male and female if that's the right term and you're taking that to come together in a way that they've not been able to do except very radically and so forth over history that is a valid argument because i think that at least in west indies  agree with you on that and probably a lot of men to think yeah the second problem that we're having is that all of institutions becoming your general question you're very thoughtful and you're very intellectually and you've been very and i really lauded your work at you and your intellectual contributions over are you optimistic or pessimistic for the human prospect o is what human intelligence and i was us to do to do ok ok ok the next major change which i think because really discussing what changes are going to occur as a result of the problems do that he said you have to train people to become good governance and that he said cannot be done by the family so plato started this concept of taking children away from the family and bringing them up in special and so we have to bring back the family as the source of critical fundamental education and not put too much trust what is preventing us from doing out our mass i think we just making sure that everybody family what is your feeling about our institutions of education and that would be like conditioning to fit into society and the responsibility i think eaters setting up a system for family that was really good if every family could be the first foster educational institution some families it wouldn't be it would be detrimental there's so much there's so much thanks particularly of economic systems that are going to be producing the wealth the wealth of nations is yes it's going to be producing the wealth without the need of human activity to produce the wealth of nations that's not quite true so but the interest the import of human activity is going to be essential to the production of the overall economy of the world take pakistan as an example pakistan is a developing country you know but really are very powerful had john maynard keynes or the people who came up with the economic there as my own forming capital how are you going to organize a society where is it among the youth that you find this emerging you don't have to do anything they want to do it themselves no no no you find anybody that losing i'm teaching them what they don't know is that my secret is that i'm learning from the youth in my classes their questions are teaching me you're taking advantage of the poor you just were taking that money and running with the divine of farms and research the old people ought to be and you know have farms that we can put them all out and all the use can celebrate in there as you handle losing we have a tendency i think not i think is going to be something including everybody but we species and new things appearing so some of those understandings we have from science could be maybe applied to the human condition more than it is allowed to i think the best that we can do is to encourage you with whom  youth well i think that's well place because it's the youth to really carry the new things and everything like that i guess it has been like that well in any case it's really important we have these institutions that we have and we have thinking i wish there was more i could find more coming out of the youth and i seem to be able to this seems that a lot of young people coming into the government now to talk the same old language that had been talked by politicians going back to the beginning of time and i don't see new ideas emerging in terms of answering the basic questions or confront is coming out of youth or or our leadership for that matter our political leadership that is because you are not oh well ok well i don't care that the people are under thirty or necessarily thinking there is an optimism that when you're in that age and so forth like that i told you about climbing up on mount mckinley yeah i told you that an earlier program that taught me a lesson in everything i was all indian brace and mother nature and all that kind of thing but i anyway that's a that's just another story but it's it's an incredibly interesting time to be alive and participant in this and i would submit this is the most  credible and i think we're coming for a qualitative not a quantitative change the qualitative change is going to be only comparable to something like speciation we're coming into a new way of relating to the universe coming out of the woman of history and that's the sort of thing that i think going to call for some major changes coming out of all of us including the elders are responsible for the political institutions and so forth but also the women and also the men and if i can express   in that have the perceptions of yeah we have a couple minutes in here but it's been so good talking with you i'm on and it's a pleasure for you to have had it since the stink thoughts you have a website inside you would you such a very very very well lead life the conclusion thank you for the pleasure and the on the done to be oh well ok thank you very much for here and there you got his his his e mail thank you very much for viewing will be coming back again tomorrow but once again my thank you very much for coming in and welcome to and then in may we welcome you over here to m and then maybe you can get involved over here thank you pleasure ok thank you have you will come back tomorrow well that's about it and everything and we just keep falling and you know i i'm a little bit dismaying i don't know where the thinking is coming from i don't see it