designed to promote a better understanding of islam and muslims and god willing i hope we are fulfilling our commitment to you the viewer tonight we have part two of a very interesting show we started last week talking about islam and democracy this week we will take a studies as the recent developments in africa and the middle east are ongoing we need to take a closer look at democracy in the middle east and africa tonight joining me my special guest  general particularly the middle east region was actually carved out and divided by britain and the turn of the century and since that time all middle eastern countries w exceptions almost except for saudi arabia were colonized directly colonized and it wasn't until the in the sixty's one by one they started gaining their independence late fifty's and fifty's and sixty's so at best there's not to say that the minute they gained that independence they became democratic countries as a matter of fact it's quite the contrary  the colonizing forces as they pull out of these countries they made sure that they left behind systems entrenched they did their own work so they don't have to spend the time and the money administer these regions in these often military regimes and it wasn't until extremely very recently that we saw people in these countries starting to want to take over they became fed up with with of the shah and they took things in their own hands we saw it in sudan we saw it in the area we are seeing it now and turkey is just spreading throughout that people are saying this is not to present to the governments o aspirations and what we want to do and we are sick and tired of being kicked and beaten and oppressed and tortured by our own governments in the name of democracy sometimes in the name of islam some other times and so on so then the it is only very recently for a few years as a matter of fact that some of these countries not all of them but some of these countries are starting to take things in their own hands and starting to implement some of these processes that we're talking about well we have sort of a contradiction in policies and maybe we can talk about a case and study algeria which you mentioned why is the west so unwilling to embrace muslim islamic democracy been done in algeria the shah of iran for years and years and years we also supported somoza of nicaragua we supported the philippines who supported marcos of the philippines and we continue to support oppressive regimes because again our normal democracy in this country is local as nationalistic in algeria we are not necessarily saying that the united states should support an islamic democracy per se we are saying that the united states in the process of exporting democracy should stick to the same rules and should not change the rules of the game when we go from one system to another from one government to another from one mentality friend the french were trying to strip these people of everything that is their language tradition culture religion you name it yes so it is a very lengthy and hard and tedious process for a period today to restore their own identity and culture and so on and it is very very hard work when you couple that with regimes that that took nine hundred eighty eight to nine hundred ninety of people saying this is wrong we want to have a hand in the process of electing our people choosing our leaders and so on nineteen ninety in the middle of the year as a matter of fact there w more than eighty two percent of the votes that is an overwhelming majority that we have not even seen it in the united states or elsewhere the only time that such a majority existed in those countries we double lections that are always ninety nine point nine nine percent ninety nine point nine nine percent we see it in syria we see it in egypt we see it in everywhere and most recently we saw it in tunisia national elections were set for a year later for nine hundred ninety one but in the interim what the government did was they legislated annual law that a new law is to change the distribution of seats and what they did is that they inflated the areas where they received their votes and they deflated the areas where the islamic party had deceived its votes so they changed  the demographics they changed all of the rolls of the game so that they even with fifteen percent of the votes they would look like they have the majority they have moved seats  salvation front objected to that and said we are not going to participate in any elections until these things are resolved as a result of that the government jailed fifteen thousand people in the islamic salvation front namely all of its leadership was jailed detained with no due process also so there were no trials no this no that fifteen thousand people w so there was no direction no leadership for that party in the majority all together and then they said well now we'll have elections believing and feeling that now for sure without any guidance without any leadership now the government will have the upper hand and they will win the elections and even that didn't happen so all timidly then the military stepped in the army stepped in and the two the elections were supposed to happen in one thousand nine hundred two january they were called off the military stepped in and it's a military government so that's that's a chronology of a very brief and crude chronology of what happened in th area now the question is what was that all of the west that was watching all of this happen and there was supposedly want to make sure that democracy is is there to protect the democratic process and to make sure that so long as the process is correct i mean it may not in our real best interests that so and so is in government but if we protect the process and if what we have is best  and eventually we will be there or somebody who believes in what we believe in we come to their well that didn't happen as a matter of fact the friends of course whose eye is always on  immediately also backed the military move the united states backed the military move and the west in general backed this move that was in direct violation of the very principle of democracy is how can you back a system that says i'm going to outlaw elections because it looked to me that i'm not going to win it this is what it's all about the government in the knew that it is not go win the elections because it was not going to win the elections what do we do we are we boy can we outlaw elections all together and what does the apparent democracy what does the west do there was that preaches democracy all the time well they say it's fine not only is it fine for you to ben elections but we're going to back you up we're going to make sure that the other side of the story gets all the negative publicity and we're going to make sure that there is no what happened to the voice of the minority and what happens to all of what happened to all of that what we see is continuously a double standard process a process where we preach one thing in this country and then we practice something else and we again this is the most blatant example is what happened in the area but that's by no means is the only example that happened that illustrates this idea of double standard so we're going to boycott and we're going to just claim that this is not democracy at all so democracy is what works for us in other words not what's best for the people while another case and study is what's going on in turkey today and you were talking before the program about the recent elections there maybe can tell us what's going on today in turkey that is that's extremely interesting process also to keep an eye on turkey turkey was the center actually of the muslim empire cannot be this and that at the same time which is which is an absurd idea of its own but he succeeded in making turkey a turkish society with very little trace of islam in its institutions not its people you cannot strip people from their beliefs but he made sure that institutions were stripped of that identity that muslim identity while turkey has a unique location also correct yes it is while turkey is turkey is strategically located yes turkey is an ally of the united states turkey is in a place where it's a bridge between europe and the middle east and so on and it is it is it has its own uniqueness its has its own value now what essentially the people of turkey are starting to see to elect a party and islamic party in turkey and the most recent victory that that islamic party has seen as the election of the mayor of istanbul the largest city in turkey and suddenly a lot of flags are now going up i mean this is we don't like the person who is elected man or woman and when when they saw this party now it's taken getting more and more support from the people in turkey and that people are  voicing their opinion go to the polls and say this is the party that i would like to see in ruling government now they are saying that this is a second area they are now saying actions are common meaning why child would be on the look out there come your enemy and so on we're basically trying to manipulate our own feelings and thoughts and so on and to bias us against a group of people that we know nothing about the same thing is happening today the media is trying to tell you why child the muslims are come and the fundamentalists are coming in so on and my my thought my advice to you is to make sure that you don't fall in the same trap of the russians are coming and this time what i would like you to do is to make sure that you yourself get to know and learn about these muslims these fundamentalists if you will these people who you are whom you are told are come and learn a little bit about him so you will know how to meet him so you know either to defend yourself or maybe you are going to meet him with open hearts and open arms because you will learn that they are come and not with swords not with guns not with battle ships and planes and so on maybe they are coming being gifts to you maybe they are coming actually with the best gift of all the gift of sharing with you a principle an idea and ideology that would help us maybe overcome our problems that would help us overcome our homelessness in this country that would help us or the overcome our moral dilemma moral crisis that this country is good go on through maybe these people will just have some of the solution that we are looking for so desperately in this country but the media is telling us the muslims are coming in a tone in a connotation that means they are coming to get you they are coming to kill you and what is really happening in reality is that we are going over to muslims with arms every time we go over to muslims we go with arms we go with planes to bombard them we go with tanks to kill them it is the other way around so what we need to do is to get out of this mentality of war altogether and think and know that when the media starts to raise these flags as a matter of fact we are to be smart enough every time the media starts to throw these flags around to us that there is something there that i should investigate on my own i'm not going to take the media's word for it i'm going to investigate it on my own and i advice you the audience of this program to keep an eye on turkey keep an eye on what's going on there because it is the policies of our government here abroad that has made people so sick and tired of our system of government they see double again as i said what they see is double should i people that have been ruled in the third world as we call it by the way they have they have experienced and lived through socialism they have experienced and lived through even communism as they have certainly experienced and lived through capitalism they have experienced all of these forms of government and they have all consistently and continuously failed and all that they are saying no let's see like all the other systems have had their chance let's try it out and if the majority of the people in that particular country will lend once to be told by this form of government who are we in this country or anywhere else to go there until i'm no you do not know what's best for you here's how you're going to be governed here's the form of government that you're going to have and that's going to work for you have you know it or not whether you want it or not here's the democracy you're going to have and we've done that in several countries and consistently it backfires because what we end up doing we in the back you know and supporting oppressive regimes and telling sending a message to those people in those countries that we really don't care about you and we preach human rights on one end but we go and support oppressive tyrant regimes and people cannot reconcile the two and they are having a very difficult time reconciling what the united states preaches and the part of the foreign policies of the united states are and they find again they find that these two very far apart look at for instance also look at bosnia yes president clinton was elected one of his promises during the election was that he is going to be arm to lift the ban on the bosnians so that they can buy arms so that they can defend themselves cherish in this country so yes exactly do you know what he called he called bush's policy and moral policy not just wrong policy his bosnia policy but in his campaign rhetoric clinton called bush's polic policy just like bush's was there is a problem of theory in practice and that's what we are looking to today look at this is a second a second example a third example is what has happened in the sudan in the sudan the majority of the people in the sudan this very poor country the majority of the people in the sudan again haven't been ruled by a british and by this and by that finally said listen we want to have this form of government or all us democratically with this is what we want what have we done to support and to do and hence a democratic process what we've done is that we have suffocated economically and politically we suffocated the student when people say we want islamic rules total us that's what works best for them they are not saying we want to rules they are saying we want to be law according to our own faith who are we here in this country to say no you can't live and you're on set of rules  live under those set of rules people then wonder we wonder in this country people in the society wonder when they go abroad why is it that americans are so disliked when they go to the middle east when they go to europe when they go elsewhere and we need to stop and really think hard why is it that people in this country when they travel abroad i've disliked knowing that people in this country are the innocent victim of the foreign policies of the differences things in the film government the reason is we have always tried we have always charged our own policies and ideas and thoughts down the throat of other people with those other people saying yes we would like these policies or that avraham i think you've given us some good examples and case studies and i appreciate your advice to our audience we need to seek out who are the muslims what is it all about and also to look at history what was the golden era for muslims was the golden era for all of civilization and we are the friends of the people of the book christian and choose not the enemy of these people so i hope you've given us a good advice that we will take it upon ourselves to search it out thank you and thank you the viewing audience this program is for you and without you would not be possible if you have questions if you have suggestions if you would like information on is