welcome to education in our community this show is about lifelong learning across the generations we have on the show today two special gues father and son and we were talking about deliberative dialogue guiding conditions for respect and that would be a  situations so we're looking at home setting community setting organizations institutions the variety of ways where deliberative dialogue can be beneficial i guess that we have today our father and son the father is mr michael steinback and the son is mr cameron star in fact mr cameron steinback has a background in psychology and sociology but father mr michael steinback has a background in all kinds of things that i didn't get specifically but hopefully he will share with you his background because the things that he does include things like training account managers businesses who need consulting he works with community issues construction city and state it sounds as though he does a lot of complex work with a lot of complexities but he does something called deliberative dialogue and in order for us to deal with that i wanted him to start out just to let us know how you would say explain that so that the viewing audience could understand how does what it is and how it is used oh doctor can deliberative dialogue is essentially a way of discussing complex matters and is an effective way of getting at solutions essentially it is taking an issue and looking at it and discussing it from the point of view of all stakeholders even if you don't have all stakeholders involved in the conversation and it is discussing the matter and weighing the pros and cons the costs and the consequences of the options that are available whether you favor them or not and that's the key if you have an opinion about what should be done about a topic in order to get to a real solution that's sustainable it's going to need more than just your opinion everyone who's involved in that everyone who was affected by it needs to weigh in and that's where the pros and consequences pros and cons costs and consequences are important once you get into a conversation with someone you understand why they feel the way they do you get to drill down to what values are driving that emotion and once you find common ground among values you can lay a foundation for discussion and moving towards a  solution one of the values that you might consider a safety once you get down to people who are on opposing viewpoints of an issue like gun safety if they really feel about public safety is  listening to the show this morning where they were talking about the gun guns and violence and trying to look predict what will happen as a result result of some dialogue that was going on by some of the persons who had been affected by the violence here recently and so we're hoping that positivity will come out of that deliberation so i was hoping that you would share with us how you do what you do to make that all happen because i'm laying that floor and reaching the point that people are on the same page is that what you said at least if not on the same page as least can walk together towards a solution can grow and see is something that we strive for a lot because if you try to change someone's mind i learned a phrase some time ago and i don't know its origin or credit to but a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still so you can beat me up and make me agree with you but when i walk away i still have the same opinion about what it was so until we get people to actually change how they feel about something real solutions not going to come about and that was why it was so interesting and the president obama having those persons who had been impacted by the violence to come and speak to the nation but also to speak to the decision makers because it sounds as though that common ground that you're speaking about is not easy to get to and to be respectful in the process i think and to care but when we were talking with you mr cameron back and you talked about the qualities that you had with the educators and teachers that you were working with and you mentioned something about caring being the most important part of at the very any minute all the attributes that they had do you recall some of the things you said that were important in dealing with students in the classroom and trouble shooting yes definitely i mean with with the challenges the schools in general face at school administrators face and especially the teachers the people who are there educating the children every single day the the common thing i've seen from from first year teachers to better ins is you have to care about the student you have to care about their education you have to care about their future so regardless of what is going on that can frustrate their teacher they can upset the teacher the foundation that i've seen through all my experience is that the teachers care and that's their foundation of why they're there and that caring that that ability to stand on their foundation gives them so much more power to deal with situations that arise regardless  challenging they're so they have to care and they do to be there so how do they show that they care they care because there's so many situations that can come up from from behavior issues in the classroom from the student being passed along all the way up until say they're in tenth grade and don't know eighth grade level algebra or a three level math the teacher has to stand there and they can be upset and the have opinions and be passionate about all the things that have been done wrong for the steam for them to be in a position where they can't perform where they need to be they care enough that they don't let their pains about why they got there get in the way they care enough to figure out solutions from the standpoint  of their opinions of how they got there what was done wrong they care and to find solutions i think that sticks to it directly towards that deliberate dialogue of having that standpoint the decision maker to find solutions or goals of your personal feelings or emotions if you have to find it in yourself to care enough to find the real solutions so this could also indicate that the teachers may not actually know upfront but what the solution is or what teachers have the skills the teachers have the knowledge they have experience to understand what is going on and what is needed in the struggle to get everyone else involved in that solution because the teachers that i've seen have solutions they have the right ideas because they're seeing what's going on and they're like ok this is the issue these are the kinds of solutions that we need for then it's there's so many things that go beyond that that the teacher can only control so much and they have to work with all the stakeholders for the for the for the goal of educating their child for that so they have a positive future so the teachers know and the teachers have the skills and teachers have resources and some certain circumstances they are limited there are so many more stakeholders involved than just the  teacher it's the teachers it becomes teachers sponsibility and part of their burden to get all of the stakeholders involved because the teacher is not going to win one is going to be able to make a difference for the long lasting difference it's going to take more than just a teacher it's going to take all the stakeholders that when they finish the year or the term they have but they need to move on to the next level so about how much the student is receiving to be prepared for the next twelve to exactly the role that the teacher plays let's say that the teacher doesn't have all of the skills or the skill set just because they're learning something that they had never dealt with before and therefore they are open to finding help themselves i mean like before to be before being place in the classroom teachers or go through rigorous training rigorous things to ensure that they have the knowledge to be able to pass it on to the students so that the students know their obstacles from transfer knowledge to the student and that's that's the challenge and the beauty of art and science oh being an educator so you can have all the knowledge that you have for a limited amount or the right amount to be used to be caught by educator but the real challenging piece is be able to transfer that knowledge to a different mind then your own much less thirty different minds at a time for one hour period or you know hour and thirty minute period then have another set of thirty miles to translate knowledge to so that's that's the real challenge that i've seen just in myself  learning how to be educated from people i've seen being educators it's been able to take almost you have and transfer it not so much that having not having the right amount of knowledge but that's the challenge is transferring it sounds like you've been a very excellent situations where they their skills are very good and they're they've mastered the subject matter yes but i'm just looking at what i think is rampant throughout our nation because of diversity there are a lot of students who have different backgrounds but they come into the classroom setting some teachers don't have all that they need to address their needs the students so i'm really happy to hear that you've been in situations where everybody is just really at the level that they should be the teachers are and they are able to transmit that to the students yes that's excellent i will say there are a lot of challenges that think are seen been in a couple of different school districts here in the bay area and then in different parts of the country where students it's kind of an issue that students are coming in not as prepared as they should be with the amount of time that's given in the years before or whatever wasn't made in certain years the standards that are in place by the state by the county by the nation there are a number of students who do not have all the schools that are needed for the next level and the promise is compound on each other address that the need has not been addressed adequately well because there's so many different ways of sort of so many different organizations popping up throughout the country trying to address the education because it goes beyond what's just happening in the classrooms and it's it's indicative what's going on in the communities it's going to give what's going on with was budgets and things like that so it's not just what's going on in the class when the schools it's small it's going on with our with our countries and what we're there for the communities about how they're being affected by so many different factors and  one of the ways of the place that showing up is in schools is education so how did you address that mr michael one of the things that i find in speaking with friends and colleagues who are educators and administrators is that so many children are not prepared to learn even on that given day and children are facing so many challenges in their lives outside of the classroom that depending on what happened to them over the weekend the day before or what's going on with their parents they bring all of that with them when they come to class and they may or may not be able to act what we would consider appropriate for the classroom because they're dealing with issues well beyond the four walls of the school building so one of the keys is having trained personnel on campus to deal with a crisis but the children may be facing having the having good communication with the parents or the guardians or whoever is relating to the child when they're not at school and being able to understand what's going on there's a lot of talk now about teaching the whole child and i think it goes all the way back to the to the old proverb of it takes a village to raise a child well that village in the old days and my old days provided a lot of that whether it was your parents in the home or someone else's parent down the street or a dad coached little league or baseball or whatever in the neighborhood there are a lot of ways a lot of people that intervene but that child now children are not outside they're not dealing with the rest of the neighborhood as much as they used to so it is it's a societal problem that is affecting the education system even before we talk about budgets yes so at the end you national system itself is having to deal with what you just described how would you use  educators parents the corporate environment that works with the schools sometimes good and bad and the children  if you get all of those people to talk about what their issues are around education you'll find a solution that may not be the one that is most palatable to the to the to the to the administration of schools but you'll find out what kinds of things might work and once you get people's and put the needs started developing a system that works but it's so interesting is that you use the word the students would be dialogue other stakeholders who are stakeholders because i'm not sure that that is the typical way that schools are functioning when they are trying to come up with solutions that the children are part of the y usually aren't and unfortunately the people who are part of the dialogue at the top and the bottom of this vertical hierarchy are usually not involved in the conversation and the people that decide on the funding the politicians the senior administrators at the state level the national level they're making decisions but they're not including all of the conversations of all of the stakeholders that are going to be affected by those decisions and ideally yes you get all of those people together not in one room but a lot of different conversations then you get all the data together put it together and create a t v show and bring it on education in our community and talk about it yes well i'm thinking that this particular show might be very helpful to school systems but to find a systematic way to do exactly what you described so that the children are stakeholders as well because it's their their destinies are being determined by this process so as a psychology major in sociology major how would you apply your expertise let's say if there are mental and helping them realize that there are stakeholders that have a purpose for being at the school whether it's to get an education or to prepare for something beyond when and when they get out of school and realize that they a stakeholder and they get to choose and that the only way that they get to move forward in their purpose is when they're choosing their proactively engaged and not just a passive passive recipient of it because that that's what i think like that's what i see that students feel that they're just passive receiving all the stuff that's punishment or behavior modification or being sent out of the classroom that they're just a passive recipient or they do something and then all the stuff happens to them that makes them more frustrated than in challenge to i'm trying to have a gender specific thing the there to learn for the de but if they're not convinced that they are in control of their education they don't feel responsible then i can't do it all for them i have the information to live a system but if they're not hungry for it if they're not actively pursuing it there's only so much that can actually be achieved and then i don't want the students to see that that they have to have that drive they have to get that have you ever had difficulty motivating students oh because there are so many other things for them to be engaged in then learning about genetics the you know they have their their phones now their conversation it's a very social time for a lot of kids that's where they get to interact most with their peers in the classroom is that school in the classroom so then how do you deal with that there's all kind of you to have your quit your classroom managed well for that you do have the focus we do have that drive and that takes scalds building culture in the school or in the class in the culture of learning the culture of respecting the space that everyone deserves a chance to learn including me and i would like want the student to tap that in their minds everyone deserves a chance to learn including me so i need to do everything that i can so that i that i will learn to leave this classroom with all the day including me meaning you the teacher the student the student has to say me i deserve an education i have i deserve the highest quality education and i need to where sometimes the teacher doesn't see who's being left out and sometimes when they become aware that they have not addressed the needs of the students that makes a big difference and sometimes they need someone to let them know  because it is a lonely place sometimes in the classroom for a teacher to be able to bring along those students that are hungry for what they're supposed to be getting so did you come up with the other thought as it relates to the work that you do when you have people who are not on the same page and you're trying to get them to come up with the solution and yet maintain their respect well like the students people have to care they care if they come from a point of caring then they'll be more open to listening if they don't really care i don't know much we can do to motivate them to engage in a meaningful way so first there has to be caring on the part of the individual and then we can work with that they can voice their opinions people don't care they will say anything but even the negative opinion shows they care about something and you could work that you know because i was thinking that the each person is unique and perhaps they are talented in certain areas and the opportunity to share it sounds like that's a part of the process being able to make them come forth with what they have to offer and if they are left out then they're not permitted to offer so it's delivered in the sense of how you do what you do you know exactly what you're doing tell us about some of your examples where you've got a group to come together as a result of deliber dialogue there are to think of one kind of like problem solving if you have an issue and issue that is important enough for a lot of people to be talking about and if they're talking about it they care about it to some degree they have an opinion and if this issue crosses a lot of different lines  you get a lot of different opinions so in some ways you have to bring people together and if they really care they will come together you call for a meeting you call for public referendum  create and an area where people can come together sometimes it's just when something boils over in the bowls over into the street it's on everybody's minds it gets the attention of someone who can say you know we need to do something about this and usually that is when it starts to affect someone's money and then they'll say there's a problem and once enough people realize that it is a problem and not just a discussion  meeting to take place a meeting moved can take place it can then it's a matter of who is able to convene such a meeting and it takes some power to be able to convene to bring people together who don't know sort of want to talk together oh is that right that's interesting to hear because it sounds as though that might be a very important part of the whole process it is the person with the power to make decisions or to who is going to be most affected will have to do something about it and in a school or maybe the principal in the district of maybe the superintendent in a city of the mayor or the board of supervisors or the coun and often though the media is where it starts because it hits the news and then people really think we've got to do something and that's the point where someone can convene you know discussion that makes me think of the movie lean on me was pretty much they had to have a meeting because a crisis was about to occur yes so i'm wondering if you have had work with insurance companies and other entities as well or just as well as parenting and education yes i actually have worked with an insurance brokerage for a number of years and most of my role has been an account managing and i have used the art of deliberative dialogue in dealing with situations that come up that need resolving where risk is involved and  mitigation of that risk is important and you often have to bring opposing viewpoints together to solve the problem and that's where you know moderating various opinions and people who have those opinions come into play so i've been able to use it in my corporate world to defuse situations and reduce the risk of something bad happening this is amazing so it's an art i also and it's a lot more art than science yes as we wrap up i'd just like to thank both of you for sharing your expertise because i think this is really the kind of world we're living in today deliberative dialogue seems to be needed