since ten thunder since june two thousand all you gotta down we've got to get a lot of your programs up and a welcome welcome very much to conversation a pleasure to welcome to friend dear friend of conversations that being bob dob incredible feat of memory and so forth and also a student of media and bob welcome so good to see always good to see you it's good to keep the dialogue going with you harold yeah talk a little bit about your own background please and everything and then we'll just get int discussions about media communications as d n a maybe for social patterns and all that talk about your own background little bit we have done it before but let's go quickly and then into the substance of what you're on volved with now st i'd like to dedicate the show to two books on marshall mcluhan and he passed on yesterday i'm sorry i'm sorry now the interesting thing about gerd and don you know that they were born within twenty four hours of each other isn't that amazing and they grew up in new york city and they were mcluhan coming out of yale the literary criticism department department and went and met marshall calling nine hundred and fifty so he got involved with mcluhan early him earlier yeah and but what was interesting is don was an expert in the s around the world with gerd yeah colleague michael kavanagh i think is name is and i think yes go yeah go and that's right they have a place up in nyack or so yeah right they were the st multimedia experiments and he got that idea from reading  he wasn't at toronto well he went to mcgill and you know but you know tronto didn't get it done i don't know if they have it maybe they have it now i don't think so but mcluhan complained to his own university that you know his student got it done before he did i'll be done and yeah he had that center find out why marshall mcluhan was revealing what he had discovered through studying when i'm lewis and harold innocent and secret gideon and sergey why are those people less well known in the ne significant media studies understand the effects of media marshall mcluhan's famous for that all of those some of those why well harold in this is what well known you heard it from you but when i'm lewis is not known because he has been stigmatized as a fascist for the previous century really yes in james joyce was built his work on his understanding in argument with wyndham lewis oh ok ok so well that was a very important but not as well known now yeah he was famous in the teens and twent in terms of experience things in our county which is a strange synchronicity that we engage on the internet and that is really heightened my website you go there you get the virus i don't know why it happens but it's a strange thing you know the idea that that movie last two on your you know there are programs and i'm up there just go back a few shows i've got some i got to put up i've been so damn busy i've got to get some of those ones we've done we've got them all in good order and they're going to be going up to a top right so the point about the phrase the tactile economy yeah is an expression of the attitude of the intelligence agencies and the true managers of the economy because through managers of yukon ok because once the macoun pointed out when satellite went up in fifty seven  beginning of the satellite environment then nature and the planet became an art form and previous media technologies became art forms right that is they've become the form of the new media and yes that's what happened on ten of the new media and i did contact ro graham program means like an artist you anticipated the effect of your work on the audience or the people engaged with it so the economy at that point since it moved from ownership based not on money and property but information property intellectual property became the new form of what they can only power with us but thank you mean yes after it's ok the planet went from global village to global theater and the  computer st was the mainframe and then the subsequent evolution of computer always was the extension not necessarily the central nervous system but of parts of the brain the well abrading aspects of the brain is it fair to say extensions that technology extension of consciousness are that going too and i've known all of them and interacted with them so what i'm saying is you knew kelso yes i met him once through mcluhan because we did yeah yeah you know it was not influence it and i'm not sure  yeah yeah well you know as a center all these people pass through mcluhan mcluhan was interested in the book and he talked to kelsey when i was there for that song i didn't know that that's new that's brand new yet i didn't know that yeah so the point i'm making is that when the computer comes in and we have a global theater under satellite condition it's interesting from global village he said the world is a global village which in got from william lewis got it i'm going to lewis and then it became global there or you'd say the same with a satellite you know with the satellite and or the actual constituent factor constituent of factor in molding our sense of what the economy is as in figuring ground yes figure and ground it figure is well it was television yeah then it became the satellite  digitization all right i mean the six was known as the space age yeah right that's right going out to space even though the effect of the satellite was to turn back into our own sense of the planet and we became very self conscious of this little global village we're living in and the natural terrestrial habitat that situation gets shrunk and turned into increasingly tiny or holograms and that's the face of the  the series artist in the ones who are preceding what's giving a do line he used to call a distant early warning like now by the sixty's maybe even the fifty's that function of the artist was replaced by what yeah how easy it is to manipulate human consciousness and everything and it's just become you know an art form in itself a little serious art always includes the past ok and advertising was a stabilizing force may get people into the military operation of has a bad effect so heap of need a lot of bad news yes right to feel that they are still viable because they survive the disaster i see yeah every motion bad news has a good effect good news is a benefit that is what mcluhan said he materialism unless you look at media as materialistic environments and they are now but they're effects are not limited to just our ideas of our bodies they represent effects on the way we think  right which i call me to the effects of new media or new means when all means gets really confusing by the sixty's a lot of people associate me with dawkins a selfish gene that kind of thing is like a genetic thing we've got the genome and all and watson well they discovered that healy yeah in ninety three the other discovery in fifty three was marshall mcluhan figuring out that technologies create means and these means are based on the sen ratios and the mental interplay or the attitudes that's true again because it's interesting the media in the media each medium is an extension of one of the internal external or internal and so the i it's an extension of the i print it's linear that kind of thing here and that kind of thing and then yeah that's ok yes and so once you get the extend their excuse me when you're in aden when you're nested needin at the beginning two hundred thousand years ago or whenever that was all at once into rural kind of relationship in terms of that but when you extend that was attacked so that was that was tactile because  then the extension of the eye to writing then the printing press made the the patriarchal imperialistic form of economy over the last three hundred years was based on the phonetic the printing press and the phonetic alphabet and he said the phonetic alphabet was that pumping machine that's right there is what is in the heart and yeah right right and then what do we extend after we've done the year and our movement functions the internal the central nervous system the inner landscape tell us in the end then you've got the satellite and spaceship earth satellite right so the satellite is the end point it extends everything the whole planet and us all right so that is a completion oh it's a omega all right omega not yeah was attacked how primitive conditions then we go through these phases and the omega is the extension of the whole planet which is the satellite what do we do after that i don't know where are we now bob that brings in the digital the on the one and the result of that technology which is an extension of the calibrating factors of our brains might even be considered the extension of the corpus callosum between between the left right hemisphere and that extension means that technology takes on a life of its own and extend itself yet not us or blackberry that your i phone that's all this friendly media that kids go up in things they're bigger then no previous environment which felt and communicate to humans that it was smaller than the than the than human beings that extend it so we marshall mcluhan which is not date of his st book nine hundred and seventy one the media is a review mirror which was so good mcluhan wanted suppressed and became a big issue up in canada and they had to bring in five university presidents to sort it out really yes but i think that was a marshall mcluhan under the influence of his agent maybe more arrow did not have a very good effect on certain aspects of the mcluhan estate i think yeah that they've kept the scholars away and you can't get into the when information becomes the the determinant of value then who ever controls the microphone we now call the fed federal reserve chairman or the white house determining where the economy is and  for the stage the credit card the credit card is the stage we're all standing on as little discarnate entities credit on our organ to concept of credit yes interest these kind of the things that that money can be shared and it's public property and that we can go in debt and then we're from there so we're actually working with the quantum void subatomic in our economy we're in the th century you had to have a visual counting of everything on balance yeah yeah now we're going post visual and so the interplay of saying where we are right now the g n p is this and then tomorrow it could be that but we know that the whole economy is communicating all over the world is not limited to a national status and everybody's dependent remember holistic business but he says the arabs will take their money out and then they will more than back in what do you think they do every where every morning the communists the capitalists the rd world and every morning they get out their computers and they look at the print out and they determine where they're going to do that  y they do it the next day run by information where is the printout coming from the mixture of all the factors of all the news agencies and the intel's age describing the weather and where we're at right now the only popular longer the orwellian big brother you know some secret elite builder burgers are trying out of commission it was the nielsen ratings that was big brother and we don't have them here in a public access you know i don't think we're going to for you guys are a byproduct of the whole situation  wealth but the point is that the interplay of the nielsen ratings national priorities global priority new technological priorities plus preserving the sense of old identities and that you that's what we mean the interplay of all these you know confusing non simple aspects of matters is what we live in so therefore you can't really say we're going into recession you can't say we're going into full employment and can say were unemployed well i know those people tactile it was something more than the sum of the parts or something that was like your residency of all yes another would you know we really care about your finger on it we were we were in touch with nature but now we're being returned to that in terms of a multi sensory perception an environment the were in at the end of this process of extending our technological know through technological instruments our consciousness out into the environment and creating an environment other than what in even like sense is given right the end of that process yes and that again that in the postmodern academy it's modernist dominated and he makes a point that he says that mcluhan talked about the extensions and missed the point that they become cannibalistic and come back again into us that's not exactly accurate  it is appears this appears and also what he did say media is cannibalistic to eat us alive and eat previous media lives but kroger was working with the madison avenue icon of this man marshall mcluhan promoting the global village which everybody thought was a they're influenced by why movies television radio and other people have to look at what he says if there are other people that means movies radio television or people so this idea of st nature of this the dini condition that we  early cavemen came out of and then we went through the fragmentation the neolithic specialisation and then we moved into the electronic marconi galaxy and we slowed yesterday we're now yet just to say we're now tactile situation re the time in terms of human conscious human affairs as we sit here and talk on may th of the year two thousand and eight where are we well what are you optimistic pessimistic what is the outlook or to politics fit in where does it you know that kind of thing i mean what does that mean i'm a d constructionist or a particle i have noticed yes this is an apocalyptic in the sense that everything that we think is happening melts away ok so for the religious fundamentalists they cannot produce precisely predict or knowledge about the electron be two places at once they're getting more and more in depth into the non visual but they're trying to fit it back into the visual yeah alright people how they want to do that drive into the future of their eye fixed firmly on the rear view mir's as we don't know where we're gone because we're on our in mathematical terms very complex and he's describing the tactile give and take he's actually bringing the tactile form now i'm the expert on all this world because i tell him why he's coming up with that do it all for them oh yeah we're good friends and the thing is that the ground of physicists trying to figure out what is going on and fit individual models is the android meme today and it is the synchronistic effect we all more more kids are starting to predicted and james joyce mapped out are showing why the kids would go that way this is the media are making it seem it's all about you and everything is friendly and you can interact with everything you have e attacked our relation with everything that's very comforting but if we live in this situation not knowing where we came from and where it goes wait a minute why don't why can't we just go to evolution would you say were we came from we came out of the evolutionary process  successfully name and categorized then i run the show and you couldn't control until you got his name and i don't know my name then i know your name bob dobbs that's the chemical body all what about my other bodies well i doubt i i don't know going to go to wherever you go there we're at a point where they tell us the weapon systems extension of consciousness are now species lethal that is they are of such a nature that if they were to be as we've done with regularity alarming regularity throughout human history it would apparent if it got into full tilt boogie land it would be the end of our whole species to you on that they could eliminate they have the capability of eliminating every single human being alive today ted turner was on with rose the other night just a great program and he said that's issue number one that we can obliterate the entire human species in a certain sense equally existentially significant and also possibly a little bit more liberating than the destructive scenario which is there before us and i think probably at a certain level is very much within the consciousness of the people of this planet now as they walk around the problem with saying that's number one if you miss is miss is the fact that the extension of tactility in this century and in the digital replay of that kills humanity communication is obliterated not your chemical body but communication that's why it's so obvious is in this situation and in this decade that we had a president and the white house always mirrors the present when a guy couldn't talk could communicate music was expressing that we have him now yet and he is expressing exactly the devastation of communication that's happened in this not ecological development of tech on technology it is destroyed communication between people listening to our way into the mater to the masturbation called their matrix tube or their computer mother into net or their i phone oh your stuff yeah the extension of yourself or yourself i mean half of your cell what is there any yourself what does it all mean for the evolution of constant means we've come to this critical point what is where we're all reading that is how we've annihilator selves and that's why i would get on there and tell ted rowlands that they're wrong to emphasize nuclear bomb that's a bombing of the chemical body what does happen is the bombing of the communication between people which is more than just our africa and in russia after they can't get in more oil because of the quagmire in the middle east so we can thank bush for creating this quagmire that forces china to get a new energy device which will be based on not on friction but it will be friction l more energy coming out your synergy there's bucky's a profit of that more coming out than makes up the constituents of that situation will get us out of the software apocalypse armageddon that were in now if we don't get that were gone assumption is a wrong assumption on your but the weapon you help us out in the west is her assumption is wrong well ok that i want to look into i'd like to know also where it can be where the models were the testings of that were the implication you know the presenting in the grows up in a matrix tube will happen in a straight what's the matrix through where a kid will grow will be in a tube and if you talk to him he would say well i got a girlfriend i've been due to bad i've traveled all over the place and done all this physical a parently living a fourteen years and done all kinds of interesting stuff and none of it had happened he was all in his own virtual programming in a tube into that is coming but it will come in a world which is free energy so we're going to keep developing ok that's reassuring to me there would be a few survivors in new guinea yeah and they were not going to new zealand you say yeah but we were not we don't because i've seen a lot of modeling and everything and i want to get in touch with the people who are best able to do that i don't know and then was that we were transcending just a plain old material scarcity there were more haves and have nots that were able to be seen within the capability that evolved around the united seventy yes so that would then it goes to war but the idea that you're transcending material scarcity in terms of politics and that sort of thing never is mentioned and never is brought up as and i don't actually intentionally significant a dominant issue because it is not just right or out of communication well that's  which so you get this tactile need an astrologer protectively happening there's two kinds there's a female tactile lead represented by hillary clinton all right well all right then there is the this whole post tactile situation we're in a post tactile environment so we're looking at two popular versions of tactically ok obama and hillary you rarely see a stereotypical terms which is all you can do in the t v landscape so that's the babbling of the t v and the chip body i would say h predicted he is going to win the election in november the republic if john mccain right now the president whoever is head in the polls right now is president is going to have totally different situation in five months so mccain is ahead in the polls so he's