high tops is and what you do in the program high tops is a youth group program that has educational towards youth and it's quite important for youth members to learn about who they are and just figure themselves out really you know it's geared more towards the community so friends so you don't feel less like isolated and there's also a lot of health education like such a low education and just safe transition stuff for especially for trans students  so how long have either of you been involved with high tops i just started going during the summer of this of last year so i haven't been to very many meetings i would say probably around march a last year you know like slightly before the summer started so i understand that there are different programs or support groups within high tops so what are some that are available or something you attend i attend a youth group called first and third it's every first and third saturday of every month and it's just a overall  shirt right after that which is i don't know exactly what it's called it's just a trans youth group and it's only fo transgender kids up to i think twenty five and i also go to a meeting every third every like there's a once a thursday month that's called pride to pride and it's a mentorship program so there's a few there's maybe ten fifteen kids in that and it's with adults and that's only once a month so how i was going to the support groups affected you and how i helped you i have definitely seen myself grown more confident and just overall more outgoing and comfortable with myself i actually transitioned while i was when i  started i was sent to request of mind therapist and i hadn't come out yet so high tops really helped me through the beginning of the school year when i came out to the student body i've made a lot of friends one of them i'm actually going to the prom with as a friend so i think it it's it's a life it's part of my life and i wouldn't nearly know as much about myself or about my community as a whole without going to high tops so what's your favorite quality of high tops that makes it such a slick a safe place it's definitely the people who go there they're a mate they're just amazing they're really friendly and they just accept you for who you are i completely agree i think it's not a good group when there's not people there who are willing to cooperate and there's some kids who come in and they're shy and then they don't really know very much and they either neil and unless you have people there who are really willing to bring you in you're not going to come back so is it common that they'll be some new people to the group that they're shy but you get to witness them become more and more comfortable yeah definitely all the time but it's really a special place to be and i'm sure it like there's it's like a safe place so you can be comfortable there where you may not be comfortable somewhere else so have you guys well you mentioned that you're going with someone that you went there to prom so have you guys met a lot of people through the program i have and it's it's just really nice to have people especially people who identify with like with you as like the same thing and just to just talk about different things with them and see their experience yeah i mean i've met a lot of people a thing more towards my deprived group because we see each other more often but the guy i was talking was mentioning he doesn't actually go that much anymore because he went off to college but we still text on a daily basis so i have at least one friendship out of that that i that i did before so what are some special events or memories that you have high tops perhaps like the highlight of your experience personally for me i think i one day before a group i was hanging out with one of my friends that i met there and it was just an amazing experience for me because it was someone who i was really open to and i just had a great friendship with them i think min yours is probably better than mine but i went to a football game for the first time to write offs so it wasn't really a profoundly relationship german experience but it was more towards like myself discovery and i mean i had a lot of fun so it's probably one of the highlights of my life not to mention the highlight of the program that i go to but it sounds amazing both of your memories are so if we were talking to the viewers right now and perhaps there somebody in similar situation who may not be completely comfortable with who they are right now what would you say to recommend high tops of them so definitely it's just an amazing community and it's just there everyone just so accepting and if you're not out to your family just yet they're the libraries right there and if you ever get nervous just like with them like finding out it's just a really nice place to  and figure yourself out and meet a lot of friends the hope you through process yeah i agree and i really want to say that when you're coming out no matter in what fashion you are coming out and for what reason you're coming out high tops and discriminate based off of age or gender or sexuality color we anything like that and as you said if you're worried about coming out if you haven't come out  and you don't feel comfortable yet doesn't matter come the high tops there's plenty of stuff to do around the town they've been either using it as an excuse or you can go to after and that you go to high tops have a good time  confident even if it's just for an hour and a day and we feel confident in that time with other people who honestly don't care about all of that political stuff and all of that worry and fear they just care about you as a person so has it had a profound effect on you to be around other people that were like you when it's not always something common but you see perhaps in your school life yeah it's definitely been a great help because i've been surrounded by so many people who one identify is the same thing as me or differently and especially in my school we don't get that kind of variation so it's nice to see everyone in union to really see them all accept each other and especially except me i have a little bit of a different experience in my school my school's very open there's one other trans man and another genderqueer person and i think that what tips me apart from them is a i'm more confident i came our own came out around the same time they did a little bit later actually and because of high tops i understand more a more educated so i'm more i don't want to say reputable but i'm happier and i see the other people and they're just a little bit more isolated i like to think that i tops helped with with meeting people as well as just learning about yourself thank you so much for sharing these experiences with us there's a choice or is it something of one it's definitely something you're born with and it's really not a choice whether you want to be this or that it's you really just find out later in life once you've developed and you realize these feelings that you have and all the words can be mistaken for choice because in the past you might have been acting a certain way and now you're acting in a different way but it's really just developmental of a lot of political debates on the silence a lot of my classmates it's it's not a choice it's a choice to be true to  your it's a choice to stop a lie basically i always felt a lawyer felt they didn't realize what the what the word was maybe i didn't know that it was right  to or ok to be to be who i was maybe i was afraid but it was it's part of who you are it's biological just like it's biological it's biological the male biological the family it's biological too like guys or girls or both and it's biological to maybe make a mistake the biology to make a mistake that happens all the time so no it's not a choice of and told us so many times i'm sure you've been told it so many times and it's the one of the worst thing that you can be told by someone that or how do you how do you and how are you liking the choice that you made it's it's almost an insult i feel like i get really fired up about that question and so  make me feel better about myself because definitely before i was that confident but since going there i've seen myself grow and i've seen myself become a lot more confident who i am i the i don't have much more to add to that it's a lot about confidence and not only just confidence in how you look how you present yourself but confidence and the choices that you're making in terms of like community and be part of it yeah just as long as they're a ally and a member that is accepting to everyone yeah we're allowed to bring people i wouldn't say i don't know for sure if people are allowed to just come in i'm sure they are because there's no way to search for her and to know why you're coming unless you are right state like you lesbian whatever i know i've brought people by their be as support in the beginning because of my lack of my lack of confidence or just education and sometimes you bring the men to show them what's going general so what do you two hundred top's out of a little while i actually only heard about high tops and i was their friend so i decided to one day just go see what it was like and i've been going ever since it was my therapist's really great story but i didn't really want to go in the beginning i thought it was going to be like an alcoholics anonymous  group like you say in amy semi circle you have sob stories and whatever and i was very resistant to the idea that other people were going through the same thing that i was i thought that i was names and those labels really hold me to find what i think feels best and it also helps me to suggest to others what they might be feeling and bring and seeing the joy on someone's face after realizing who they actually are really just really warms your heart will declare for are you talking about with an high tops or w clothing and they definitely also there's a lot of validation that they give you so she's as you said there is they give names to emotions and they give really definitely be stereotyped that bisexuals are just confused they really aren't and they just overall just like either male female or just any mixture of two genders and having the stigma of just being confused can really take a toll on someone's confidence because then they might start thinking like oh am i just really confused or am i just like lying to myself and just that stereotype is not that ideal ideal at all i think that i have more experience with trans gender stereotypes oh but i also have experience like one of the biggest things that people ask me is when they find out that i'm a trans man as are you are you gay or straight like it doesn't change really like when your girl and you like guys and then you transition you still like it's transitioning doesn't change who you are it doesn't change how you feel about people it doesn't change your attitude or your emotional state and it doesn't change your likes or it is like like you may lie to yourself and say you hate this thing and then realize you like this thing but like i always enjoyed  playing soccer and it wasn't like i just never played it when i was a girl or when i when i was younger and now i play soccer in school i try harder i play gym war and it wasn't because i didn't like it before it was because i was afraid and because i was self conscious and i was stuck with all these these gender stereotypes they really have to break free of think i had a place where you have no negative experiences if you're quiet and alone or maybe you're uncomfortable being there maybe you were forced to go there but if you're not if you're willingly there and if you participate it's a fun time and it's an it's not that kind of place there's no putting down the ball it's promoting  to know like they like the people who are saying these mean things are probably just ignorant they don't really know what's like what's going on but you're so confident in yourself or up to that confidence level that you know that you're not a mistake or you're not looking for attention you're just who you are yeah you can bring experiences to high tops like you can experience something and then come in and say hey this happened to me what i do about it like are my feelings about this right are they wrong should i be taking action it's a community of peers who are going through the same experiences as you they're all high school students middle school students college students as well and they all understand prejudice and bias and phobia so if you go in there and you say hey this person called me this they will understand and also say like hey maybe this happened or maybe it wasn't meant to be  maybe you should talk to someone about it it's a cathartic kind of experience that's really what it is it's it's meant to be there for like  be so personally i did it i already came out before i started going to high tops but definitely with what i've learned i've helped others come out to their parents or to their friends or just to people in general and that just really helps with people understanding who they are and how they can just really be themselves around and who are all very supportive and very heavily vetted before we said anything to them right after i was starting out tops i came out to everyone in my school and they really the first couple of meetings were really about like what kind of experiences you have when you're coming out for the negative experiences where they're positive experiences and most of them were positive some of them were like familial wise negative but i wasn't afraid of really talking to my parents about it or really fate of the students because you know not every once forgiving but i know that when i came out it was so much easier it was there's a group of guys and they're they as soon as they found out i changed my name the you started calling me that and they never even went back and they ensured they brought me into their their group and we play like intensive sports they gather and it's just such a great experience to be yourself and to really act on those exciting like those things that you always want to act on do those things you always want to do and i've talked to other people who were maybe china come out or trying to figure out who they were and i recommended high tops but i've also said like you know what it doesn't it doesn't matter how other people view it's always going to be about yourself on the big advocate of you first and then anyone else and if some people don't care if some people don't like how you live your life some people don't like how you present yourself look like they don't matter there's going to be millions of other people who who are interested then who are who do care and you are supportive of you even in the most neutral say and there's going to be one person that one person who's going to hit you with all their being in they don't matter how the what someone said it was more like what their actions were this actually didn't happen in group it happened when i was hanging out with them and we had gone out to lunch together and i had gone a drink and throughout the whole session they were just thanking me constantly and just to have that friendship and to have my politeness in a way just really comforted me in a way and it just allowed myself to be more comfortable with with them and with the group  overall in the same way i don't think there was one select memory one select sentence that really stood out to me it's just the overall feeling of it there's a lot of joking around and a why don't we go get ice came afterwards so i think it's makes you profoundly happy when there are people who are willing to do stuff with you and who aren't just there for that one hour and then just disappear it's a community inside and out the building that kind of spans past the confines of of group that can we can really just likely go to a football game and hang out and not confused on who you might be or just want to learn more about the community it's a great place to go and you do me a lot of great friends that will help you and support you through the way yeah i think that the biggest than want to promote is is just confidence we've been talking about the entire time just be confident in yourself before anything else you don't have to portray  just be accepting of yourself and recognize that you're not doing anything wrong and there's nothing wrong with you and if you go to high tops and i'll tell you that will teach him i not be the first