and just for disclosure sake i happen to also be a board member of that organization but i want to take at least a half an hour we could do probably more than that in pain tribute to the man who's responsible for getting medical marijuana put it on any one person sure but you know you've been the spokes person for so many years now and you've been the person that people trust when they hear on television or you know on radio and television a have been spectacular thank you you know really comprehensive and honest about everything it's not it's not a perfect thing but we know that it solves a lot of people's dilemmas in it's not a cure for cancer but at least it helps with the symptoms you know absolutely you know we are very grateful that marijuana is at least available to many residents about fifteen thousand right now in the state of new jersey and you know we certainly are looking forward to a significant expansion of the program in the near future absolutely what started you on this you were a registered nurse you working for the state in new jersey in the in the prison system and what turned what would what caught your attention regarding this oh i thank snake i mean i've always always been in favor of marijuana reform even back and i think my first letter to the editor goes back to one nine hundred sixty seven some veterans who had just gotten back from vietnam were shaken down by the police and ca parking lot and i was outrage that they were treated that way after after suffering so hard for their for their country so i have been an advocate for marijuana reform since the one nine hundred sixty s but i did become medical benefits from two marijuana even even back even back in the early days of fact when i worked at thomas jefferson university hospital in philadelphia i did informal polls of my colleagues there and and the nurses  quite convinced that marijuana was useful for a number of conditions chronic chronic pain nausea and vomiting of chemotherapy and glaucoma with the big ones so i realized that there were  the government was giving false information when they said that there were no accepted medical uses right and i was a i guess i was a sophomore or junior in college when the  control dangerous substances controlled substances act passed in one thousand nine hundred seventy and i was outraged along with many other people that marijuana was classified as a schedule one drug with no accepted medical uses in the united states i mean it was quite clear to anyone who did the history or looked into it that that marijuana had a long history of medical uses not only in this country but also throughout the world for thousands of years and that it was it was part of the united states pharmacopeia for about one hundred years so you know that it was just so wrong to have that happen then and i followed the entire process very closely through through the through the shaper commission report that said that marijuana should be decriminalized for adult use in the united states hundred seventy two that report came out president nixon buried that study right left right and that was the study that was supposed to justify marijuana as place as a schedule one drug i did just the opposite so they show it out and then i followed followed very closely the the efforts by some organizations to petition the federal government to reclassify marijuana just as a schedule to drug nic just so physicians could prescrib substances act permitted and required the transfer of marijuana from a schedule one to a schedule two and then had to have the administrator of the da overturn that decision you know it just just an outrage  so you know i mean that those kind of things sensitized me to it following that whole process and seeing how seeing how the avenues to redress grievances by the federal government were being denied to people in this area and that marijuana was still being prohibited in an arbitrary capricious and then reasoning manner according to judge young was absolutely right about that but my own personal experience but then you know i mean i was a nurse i'm working full time and i really didn't have too much time to devote to this until until i until there was a discovery of the endo can happen and system this series of receptor is in the human body and that happened in the early ninety's late eighty's early ninety's and i was very interested in that and i wanted more information about it so there was a conference in amsterdam in one thousand nine hundred three that i went to where this was going to be discussed substances the endo can have a noise and it was an interesting conference but the most interesting thing was that i met a gentleman by the name of james burton there and mr burton was an american who had just been released from prison a federal prison and he when he was released he fled america never to return and i got to talking to him and he told me his story and it was such a story that it had a tremendous impact on my life nick mr burton said that he had glaucoma and that nothing was no medicine was helping his gall coma he his vision was deteriorating several member of of his family had already gone blind from glaucoma and and when he was in his thirty's he tried marijuana for the first time and he noticed an almost immediate improvement in his vision and he discussed this with this ophthalmologist who had prescribed all these other medicine for his glaucoma and his op molecules said by all means continue using the marijuana well mr burton was a farmer so he did the logical thing he grew some marijuana on his farm to treat his glaucoma never was involved in dealing or anything like that any other illegal activity but nevertheless the federal government found it growing there they arrested him they tried him and they convicted him despite the fact that his ophthalmologist testified at his trial in his support and and they sentenced him to a year in in prison in a federal prison and part of that time he was in a maximum security prison while and at the time i was working as a nurse supervisor in new jersey's only maximum security prison the times new jersey state prison at trenton and i knew the kind of degradations that inmates in maximum security prisons underwent every day that's a really hard time nic and for him to have that happen because he's trying to save his vision to me was an outrage but then when i found out that not only that the government confiscated mr burton's home and his farm from growing that marijuana and they took away his livelihood they took away his home and they they subjected  to a year in prison and of course his vision deteriorated when he was going to say they never treated him no cheese and to me i mean i almost didn't believe the guy when he was telling me the story i mean it was too outrageous it was such a such a find some stories about that that talked to talked about the story of you know government seizes home of man who was going blind i think from the cleveland plain dealer or one of those detroit news s it i researched the issue quite a bit and in several years later i took my research to the state nurses association and asked them to endorse a medical marijuana resolution a resolution  support of medical marijuana in new jersey and they did and i was very glad to hear that in two thousand and in two thousand and two they they endorsed medical marijuana so that was a that was a big victory  and then the american nurses association endorsed a similar resolution in support of medical marijuana in two thousand the next year in two thousand and four essentially so so that was a start basically of the coalition for medical marijuana new jersey when and how  sure so he you know he had to my mind a low profile at that time but i was on the board of normal new jersey and we were meeting only the board was meeting back in those days in new brunswick in a lawyer's office all marines office and jim came to one of those meetings and he told me you know about what he was doing with his wife's wheelchair and about how dedicated he was to you know having access to medical marijuana not only for his wife but for any patient with multiple sclerosis who could benefit from this because you know it when he told the story of how marijuana was the only medicine that really helped cheryl's muscle spasms you know it really had a  profound effect on me too because you know here was a woman whose arms and legs were were in spasm and they could not move she couldn't move her arms and legs and yet and then when she took some men of marijuana suddenly you know she had full range of motion  arms and legs so it was like it was amazing so so i you know i had i met jim that time and we we immediately started talking and when i said you know we need to form you know a group advocate for medical marijuana in new jersey and that's how our coalition came about because our you know i remember having you guys on my t v show when i had the green party show back in the early two thousand and i was that must have been just around the time you guys started it  ecause you know i was like fascinated by an organization like that and i immediately had a you know join in the be a part of it so we were you know just the kind of mom and pop organization at the time but then one of the fellows that i played  that he said ken what do you know about medical marijuana and i said i know a lot down and he said well because my son was dying from cancer he was very young you know sonny was  shawn macgrath the up and he said the physicians that columbia presbyterian who were treating him for cancer recommended that he get some marijuana off the record you know i wouldn't write it down on this chart but they said you need your son needs medical marijuana so you know he was able to get it through some of shawn's friends and it really improved sean's last year of life you know it didn't save his life but it improved this quality of life for his last year and don was you know very grateful for that and and he became a very active and board member he established basically the board he you know he came in and said you know we need a board of directors we need to you know get t the state of new jersey we need to get federal five hundred one c three and you know so so we did all those things under don's urging and and we became the organization that we are today with full board of directors that i answer to and you know present in various officers aboard i'll never forget because it really struck me when i was interviewing you don was on the show and and we were talking about shawn and it was amazing that you know the dots were connected for me and that here you have a person who and shawn never smoked pot you know he was a smoker or anything he was a good student but the whole routine and but here he was forced to be become a criminal in order to relieve the pain and suffering he about the doctors and you know why they would not write that on the chart you know why they said why they why they said this person needs marijuana but we're going to i'm not going to take responsibility and telling you that right is our license you know they're all right keep well you know nurses weren't like that nurses were saying you know if you if we're recommending marijuana if we think you need marijuana we're going to stand by that you know you know we're going to we're going to stand by that recommendation that's great and you've been traveling the country going to all these conferences you've you know you've put in the miles you put in the hotel rooms you know you've done all these research studies and it's just been tremendous to to have someone like you the credible voice of medical marijuana in new jersey thank you nick and you know everyone else again who's been a part of this you know don you know jim there's been all of a whole bunch of other people who've been on the board you know even currently  hoffman joe and jane so you know you're right so it's been a nice diverse group of people each coming from either an activist point of view you know or a medical point of view or both and it's been tremendous you've signed it the last day of his governorship there must've been a sense of relief on your part that finally you know this man is not going to they didn't fall apart that you know thankfully before christie took office that you know we had this b seventy's and and you know we were making a great deal of progress there actually and we thought that i was convinced that marijuana would be legalized then by the end of the one nine hundred seventy s right so but of course that didn't happen there was a backlash and  department of corrections in one thousand nine hundred four when there were nine thousand inmates in the state prison system and when i retired in two thousand and six there were twenty seven thousand inmates you know that the state prison population tripled and it was know and i saw it you know firsthand how it how it really destroyed communities to you know i mean how how so and then i looked at the statistics and actually i had a firsthand experience of when i was working in i started in a boys school and i was working three to eleven eleven and seven and then i became supervisor of nurses and i worked the day shift and one that's all the boys in the school two hundred boys and about a dozen girls walked by me from attending some kind of conference and i said where are all the white kids ninety percent of them were black and hispanic ninety percent of them and i knew that said juvenile system fed the adult system so i want my check the statistics in the adult system sure enough by the time i retired eighty six percent of the twenty seven thousand inmates in the new jersey department of corrections were black and hispanic so you know i had i had direct experience with this getting to know these inmates in and where they came from and and the kind of crimes they committed and why they committed them short and and you know  we were just taking a problem and making it worse with this war on drugs and it was quite clear to me so you know the it was very sad now but of course you know i did work to pass the medical marijuana law in and we did our you know our organization formed as i said in two thousand and three and then we went around identifying legislators who would introduce legislation and we did we found a display toure's in two thousand and five actually two thousand and four but it wasn't introduced until two thousand and five and then it spent five years in the legislature and was a very good bill then it allowed for home cultivation reich's plants i remember a recognition of of out of state id cards  d recognition of chronic pain as a qualifying charge and it was a very good bill but just before it passed into into law it was stripped of some of the best provisions chronic pain was taken out of state id cards were tak bittersweet and then on top of that governor christie came in a few days later and said i'm not going to i think i would have signed that law and my department of health is going to come out with regulations one hundred ten pages of regulations and and the regulations were designed to ensure that very poor quality marijuana was available to very few people for at a very great expense so you know thinking that well you know after five years of work our work here is done no no we realize that that it's really just getting started you know your value in the groups value just became doubled you know in governor christie took office because you know there was there had to be a force again opposing his you know anti verily anti marijuana can at this point if you so luckily you know i mean on i have worked in state government for twenty five years and at hahnemann so worked in state government we were very familiar with the regulatory process we knew when was the most important time to you know attack these regulations to comment on these regulations to try to improve the regulations and we did we did everything that we could but he had very very little to show for it you know the they basically the department health just ignored our recommendations to to make a workable program and we were stuck with the program that we have now and they've been very few advances in the program at all they their testimony during the hearings was was was more valid than the testimony of the new jersey psychiatric association and i was so proud of our veterans you know for sure for standing up for doing what they did and  and and they were the ones who really got the p t s d added as a qualifying condition but we as an organization work amid it to having p t s d the first qualifying condition at it and so so the program expanded somewhat i think we're up to about fifteen thousand patients in the new jersey missile marijuana corridor right now and at the end of two thousand and seventeen as we look forward to election day and after seven years in the word we're not at all pleased with fifteen thousand people in the program in a after almost a years you know there's nine million people in the state of new jersey there's only five alternative treatment centers that are open and dispensing marijuana i still get people asking me oh medical marijuana is legal here and right here so many people difficult to even find you know you have to go to the department health website in order to find information about the program right and it's very difficult to find it on the web site you know you go to the for a used to be on the front page of the department health web and now you know all the lyrics that people have the doctors have to go through just to be qualified for the program and they got to spend money in order to put themselves out there to prescribe it well the physicians have to take courses in pain management and addiction control and within two years in order to register for the program they don't actually have to pay to register but they do have to pay to take the courses right so they you know that that's the main hassle but i think i think there's a the greater hassle is the stigma attached to it in the lack of explanation the lack of education among the physicians you know why not have education that actually has something to do with the endo can add benoit system how marijuana actually works in the human value you said in the past that medical schools don't even don't even have this only thirteen percent of the medical schools even oftentimes student student doctors are there are some of the ones who are the most interested in it yeah and but but you know it's a new science it's only twenty five years old these doctors were were not taught this in medical school and but there's no excuse for it not to be taught now because you know it's this and the can ave a system could very well play a role in every disease process and we're dependent on foreign research into this because because it's schedule one nobody's allowed to really do proper research the israelis have been tremendous in you know with their research and development of in fact though i found out recently that they're now prescribing marijuana too there are soldiers you know before they go into battle the i so it's very difficult to get research done in the united states the night of the national institute of drug abuse which controls access to the only legal supply of marijuana for clinical trials has as it college just who treats a lot of aids patients and knows quite well how marijuana is so useful for the face of creation you know he was turned down to do clinical research trials when he said he wanted to find some benefits associated with marijuana until he said well no i want to find harms associated with marijuana and so then again they gave him the marijuana and and and then he said whoa well what do you know i found thirty percent of them actually improved they showed a significant improvement in their pain management right you know over a placebo thirty percent that's a very significant finding and that and that study was independently replicated in at the university of san diego so as we find ourselves at this point in time you must be elated to know that you know we're on precipice of getting a new governor that's considering legalizing it for recreational use that that there's going to be an industry that people can make a legitimate money from this and you know it must so satisfying to you that it's the evolution of all this from being laughed at for wanting something like marijuana legalized for medical use to now now you know in a sense we're in the driver's seat because it's going to become a legitimate business here in the state in new jersey i was also told recently that week that new jersey consumes roughly one metric ton of illegal cannabis a month and so so that's going to be a lot of customers a lot of taxes are going to be paid a lot of schools are going to be built a lot of drug awareness programs that will be funded because there's other drugs that are that are not that great for you and you need to be informed about it so this is you know proving very beneficial in colorado is very popular in nevada in fact it took thirty days before they ran out of their supplies and now they're like desperate to grow some more i'm cautiously optimistic at this point you know i mean we're certainly making progress both nationally and in the state but you know on the other hand i thought hillary clinton was going to win presidency so you know you can't take anything for granted i know politics i know you know murphy is leading in the polls by about fourteen percentage points double digit lead right now in the election is tomorrow so you know we could say we presume that he's going to be the president the next governor but but on the other hand you know there may be shakeups in the legislature right now we have we have support for medical marijuana legalization in both in the assembly and in the senate leadership but hopefully that doesn't change you know moral well yeah there's well this state is pretty much typically blue and so we're we're confident that things are going to go the way we should the way it should can i really want to thank you very much for taking your time today and talking to us about your history with this and it is amazing hopefully someday you'll write a book and and be able to you know put it multiple chapters on it but thank you very much and thank you for having me you're welcome and thank you for watching an episode of garden state kind of his consulting t v and we look forward to you checking our