october th my magic day and just at the opera to time with this movie's coming out we're gonna let him know about i'm so glad to see you bob welcome very much so good to talk to you good to see a partner in paradigm shifting yeah and all that sort psychology college is called and he studied the media and he understands the media the implications of media in terms of larger understanding who the human evolution of the human condition in a very informed way and bob welcome very very much to conversations on this program october th that due to air on october th of governance it's a great honor being on october th it is a big day we need not go into all of that but it is for me a day that is of great significance i have a feeling it might become like a year one and new year's day and so forth but anyway bob talk to us a little bit about your background we've got a great deal we're going to deal with we have an an article by marshall mcluhan who you are a great student  terms of understanding economics and so forth and some of the economics of louis tells us something but share your own background please a little bit briefly you've done it before but do that again to sort of kick it off here ok yeah well here and i'm here to present your request for an intellectual who's a visionary and you are complaining regularly undersell that there are any aren't any in the intellectual world i've studied your shows and decide i've met the requirements very good and well out of the you know part of the reason is my background and i was born in the massacre when he was over there picking up natalie for project paperclip he was a young soldier a pick up of any way that he was brought over by for its kramer who became the main mentor to kissinger and many people in the fifty's and sixty's in the pentagon and i between amsterdam and again with venice yeah because again because venice was marco polo comes out of venice and you have them at the crux between the ottoman empire and i floundering holy roman empire set up by  articulate critic he's a very he's in my personal chart he's one of my old offices in terms of he is someone who tells people about stuff that i have personally experienced he's the historian of the fund very good at it really that's  funny money funny money was put on the sidelines after world war one because america took over in the twenty's and then they had to fight the european factions in world war two and so definitely after world war two because money had been made public property via the welfare state and the change in the situation after the crash in one thousand and twenty nine right my dad came public property so the private owners of money like to find they were on the sidelines and it wasn't until the american empire collapsed in the late seventy's the american empire collapsed with vietnam know with the oil crisis in seventy three or lent all that money to the rd world and then the went off my gold and i ended you know that was in seventy one the dollar exchange but the thing interest rates and all that the american empire through the a development banks lentil money all over the world the funny never lend money they always invest so how come we had a way to recover its are in lending money to beaver or to grade people and what you see investors are people who do not lend they support things lending you let the guy run is own course an investor runs the situation as a bit of control over it and also you pick and choose where you're going to invest well you know you give to you what happened there will be a lot of money and the dictators just stole the money and sent back to switzerland a lot of it got back to us like capital not money so you would define he would never let that happen but they didn't have the power to do that from the forty's fifty's sixty's in the seventy's but where did the reagan recovery come from began with prince charles when the fanti started to move into banking and be really there stable resources were used eighty three on because they're the ones ahead in the money because they had never lent it out and lost it in the computerized economy of the s that led the crisis for the american him howard had been stashed in work form gold credit all in right and investing in certain strong companies but they had to shift into new companies so they invested in new economy  private ownership of money and gold and credit was before that in the teens and back in the th century nineteen back to change event right so the welfare state exhausted itself under the speed of a computer conditioned which mcluhan are talking a little slower the welfare state exhausted to the speed up of electronic transfers of money in the computerized environment by the seventy's ride that's already coming in yeah that's just program trading and so forth not all kinds of uses of cybernetic movement at instantaneous speed of electronic information up on the new york times file this is an op ed by marshall mcluhan called a media approach to inflation you know this what you read to me over the phone any other day and had great interpretation of an evolving all kinds of understanding of media and the  why today upstate new york state has nothing an instantaneous and simultaneous environment ok eight in ten years and simultaneous for everybody in the planet every day you measure going two hundred thousand years you experience is all happening within an eyeblink but there was a time when that had to be developed what we're going to get to two thousand and explain why bush is what the way he is but he is the way he had to be good news for a lot of people done great and right but the period before that what we call the information society the post industrial society where did that come from a came from the in their words that cable and it was growing right and wrong coming and entering the world into were me alone called a global village you know into a global membrane i'm in one spot this is where the keyboard at the federal reserve or the  reserve chairman know the federal reserve chairman alan greenspan and paul volcker before them they're the person at the switch board to set interest or to set interest rates which controls the global economy yeah because we have a monitor it's kind of you of you can write very of friedman  simultaneous environment which means perpetual change and rapid change which creates little intervals from which you can invest in and these intervals get faster and faster there's an all the futures market futures mark with there's always been a been but then there becomes an end evolution in a way you can write and then quantitative and then there's punctuated equilibrium a new species the right a new equilibrium economics to see her librium means that there is constant pulsating change in dealing with the instantaneous and simultaneous factor and environment it requires a perceptual shift to see how this works and what it leads to when everybody sees the pattern of diversity of changes all over the place due to the instant in eighty because everybody can see a lot in that situation then the average citizen gets possessed with this interval this gap and a gambling mania takes over to invest in the effect of a change and when it materialized well that also could be a gap in the perceived let's say just for want of another term virtual reality or virtual  modeling or so yeah that's art about a quantity a qualitative transformation and a design level of capability between what exists and the capability with staggering new dimensions and what that capability is in terms of our  disequilibrium situation of an irrational process that cannot be measured quantitatively this is i'm explaining it chaos theory is the social logical and physics world adapting to the environmental effect of the instantaneous  i'm explaining that effect in the s caused the collapse of the economy based on visual money and the collective ownership of money because the simultaneity and the investing in increasing the small future intervals which is a basically a chaotic artistic environment that led to goebel capital moving anywhere around the planet therefore there was no way to control it in the bureaucratic sense of a well st state and that anarchy reaches its peak in the late seventies and that's when the american empire on terms of seared money and understanding inside this chaotic on instantaneous sums environment collapsed no money from seventy nine dollars to eighty two dollars just outrageous twenty percent interest rates so the only people who had money based on solid gold and credit and were not part of the england it's basically the european oligarchy ok i mean the rockefeller morgans they had to deal with that the asters married in a lot of the rich families you know the henry james phenomenon of people who wrote novels on a peep merican who reach would go and marry in the european oligarchy but that wasn't so much the trend in the forty's fifty's sixty's but in the eighty's with the collapse of the american financial collectively own systems system of money equilibrium the economy the only people who had any possibility of contributing and creating a stability situation was the fundies and so they came back in if you remember turn in taxes wife is new young wife a relative of themselves was the head of the social scene in new york city in the s i don't know that i don't know or even many anything to me i didn't look at uppers i would i mean are you  june issue of vanity fair and where they have a retrieved article about her anyways the point is that was the role of fundies so me i'm in the middle of that oligarchy because my father and my great grandfather all of us little worked for the butler families in new york all right so i was part of these networks and this network i call the solar government not the world government because a lot of government is the american empire mehta to the world it's what it became in the late ninety's no is actually on which was the satellite surveillance of the whole world ok it's now called a salon but it was already implemented in the sixty's you see the movie enemy of the state with gene hackman they claim that they were done in terms of the ability of a but anyway are where they came from why they're in positions of power now why they do what they do and you understand well the mix between technological extension of our conscious knows feedback mechanisms like james joyce arc right finnegans wake so the dot com world that the european funny vested in collapsed ok that's the nd thing that i did two thousand yes so the funny kind of get in the game for fifteen to twenty years and then they're nowhere so we're left with this situation since two thousand of a post information environment a way and we had it we had a we had a industrial revolution seven hundred and seventy search for the steam engine game and then we had a post industrial revolution that's information based right now we have a post oh most industrial revolution or where are we now some of the information may buy him another movie to write right but it's the information news network that they're trying to get coverage and express some citizens a response to all that and protest but what happened is that we are now in what i call a para information in virus that's here as environments they are in very so they're floating around but we being like a genetic thing a cultural thing like a genetic we talk about genetics and then there are cultural me medics we call it paradigms or means that are  our consciousness into the environment and there are very few creatures that are able to extend their consciences into the environment creates situations other than what in even like senses given which is a lot of most all of the creatures right now were degraded us and shape but as they got tiny and tiny over the last thirty years ago we now feel superior to the media scape we the citizens are paramecia we don't feel dominate the like the radio generation was or the print generation or the t v generation we don't feel we're conditioned that's why mcluhan doesn't make sense to people anymore because they did to the younger kids they don't feel condition but they're conditioned into feeling that very hard to find out what that thing is because it's a seamless web an invisible and then you get to candidate for president yes that's right now i'm going to think i mean the matrix is articles written about how the matrix was about me sponge bob was written about me you will see aspects of my life and those movies are made next to the monitor in your life for yes and that  and here it is the point is that when since technology in quotes is come alive and ways that happened when did that happen that happened start in the sixty's with what we call the digital technology it is replaying our extensions but let me i've explained this in other show you know i can look at miller in these people is the most important election period because they're very paranoid about president bush and i think they're going to lead to a lot of people in the world very worried yeah and so we're going to have to have an intervention and so roy who is that we've been given to people or what rogers as consciousness speculation but try to explain this right now when i'm announcing myself out comes a movie next week well the day after your magic day i'm over twelve over to oh man of the year yeah i know and we're going to play the trailers for them and they're consistent with the drastic environmental changes from mechanical ritual to electronic romance is not only the reversal by which every civilian becomes a soldier once more as in ancient rome or on our own front here but many reversals besides it is not only our educational system that cannot stand up to the new electronic speed of information movement the stock exchange to the world are just as helpless and will disappear under the impact of the computer the few years how many years as a bird houses the same thing here it is there's a large cities of the world this is nine sixty eight dollars the large cities of the world are so obsolete and irrelevant that they will suffer the fate of london bridge which is not falling down but has to be taken down and transferred to the private banks today is the texas of those nevada it says now that we are the both the two factor theory came out in sixty seven mcluhan is writing this in late sixty seven yeah he's on top of the mill book and yeah instantly any see the importance of room media perspective if you follow all this kind of thing and that's all really very interesting and it's also instant you got this thing and you're virtual machines and he's still there but he tracked from one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight he projected the big blue and so for you projected computing all rhythms and moore's law and that kind of thing and he said he predicted within a couple of months when the chest champion would be defeated communicate the situation unless you begin with the complex patterns of finnegan's wake which is made up of sixty languages not just verbal languages the multimedia lady with the very things that ray says happened in the seventy's and eighty's all right yeah i don't get distracted by that all but i want to finish that because he  also he said that it was going to be where they're at google a lot of their effort they're going to translate their languages even poetically of the world into one another simultaneously through a concise everything and the last those are old environment things he's working on is was a system an predicted it would be coming about now they're addicted that the computer and that program trading is over at the bring pewter they're going to be such arbitrage possibilities are going to be able to seen by the computers and what that the economic decision making process for planet earth is going to be done within a computer system that no human brain can and we were going to try and we did that anomic decision is going to be a that i computer we did that for thirty years we already did that that's what the solar government was we put together with uncanny uncanny timing the movie wag the dog which came out i think on the same day that bill clinton got into all of his trouble and start of the war because it had a  thing going and he had it it was so great it was just perfect and he's got not a new movie this coming out on it's going to be the th the day after this program airs everyone's and thirty and courage to go out and get it's going to be a block but it is about going man of the year and it is you're claiming about you and the protagonist in the star of the film who is robin williams the great comic coming in is his name is i hate to tell you this audience begins this thing we've been listening to here fifthly rant that we've been listening to it the man's name is tom is likely candidate for them in the public consciousness for a character that mimics reality would be like jon stewart yeah on the comedy channel that he runs and he says i'm going to become prey and it becomes president it's a scenario that's false or there might be  yeah the point is is that i am my radio show would explain what it was like running secret council ten and the problems i had in the eighty's and early ninety's this is apparently what tom dobbs going to be doing in the movie explaining the dilemma of being a president once he's president i wouldn't very important you want to be president why would anybody want to be your president i mean it would be a horrible to differ color kind of thing if you write i'm a bad old system work when you need the government look at me i've been present in secret level for a long time michelle gosh we've got a crater that's on the internet you can go to it now and is doing this so why don't we set that up in the in the control room now we'll play the trailer it's got some footage and so forth about this incredible coalition of events in the evolution of really a pleasure talking with him so let's run it up and run this trailer about the film and it's going to air it's going to be tomorrow tomorrow in screens around the world and it's called the day of the man of the year so let's run a run that now then please thank you my idea is a both the present situation the nd paradigm shift the paradigm shift we're moving into a post information media environment ok you know i made is for whatever it's worth is that we are moving collectively into a post scares the on the logic reality right in that we crossed the line where there were more haves and have nots in the year nine hundred and seventy mr fuller felt the same thing in terms of capability that your electronic stuff in a way i think is right down to october th one thousand seven hundred across the fifty percent mark and it could be looked at but this is something the idea of a qualitative change is not something that we ever hear in terms of the new the writers of the political thing it's transformation may be heralded in terms of the evolution of universal consciousness itself we're coming to a time where we can destroy the whole species or we can create a situation where there can be  way of operating which i don't think is going to be centered on the office of the present the united states is going to be within the right and there's that immediate context but the media in the present of murder is probably going to be stationed or based within what is loosely term the disequilibrium environment ok that got in the way and that's the disservice of the post scarce of the information environment that's a disservice well in that case it's a gap between capability which has been or you're going to raise me only two minutes to finish  it is what the normal reality is and there is the need for an alternative in the context where that can be brought up must be within the medic context of the institutions that exist that have to be transformed and i think it will be within a media televised kind of you know have a president who one thousand ok and the big ritual in the information society is the american election every four years and that was canceled in two thousand it was it was canceled and a committee has said this guy's going to be president because his name was bush bush is more important than the word gore ok because bush represents the information jungle you lost in the bush is aligned with in its way it is but that is the image of being in the bush he had the right name so his image so what is another example of the blowing up of the information environment over the post information barbara september th nine hundred and eleven what happens you have this incredible solar security around the united states the pentagon new york city but all pale man walk than to knock it of terrorism explains that when the world for forty five minutes through the internet and television was looking at the burning soon goals of the american empire when you have that digital android meaning implosion looking at the buildings you don't need bombs extra bombs or both buildings all you need is that human attention and the buildings iconic image are alive they felt humiliated and they still excited themselves who's to say the they collapsed on themselves from the attention of the the greatest in mcluhan he understands that the electron environment didn't harm is alive and when human beings look at one thing for forty five minutes and they were majority wish the thing to collapse the buildings will be humiliated and matter will be affected and they will collapse interesting funded by and i guess argued by the saudis to cover up about their involvement ok but there it all was superceded by the global attention on the building that's an interesting very interesting thing they're not yet on the air you don't put much stock in the nine hundred and eleven truth movement capability could really be released by an appropriate economic theory or basis in the situation you would release capital formation to allow us to do are capable of doing which gets over what your pond's cold fusion is going to do in providing you know getting that's getting over scares the great thing about the either you have already timing scarcity between our capability and the reality is the gap and that's where responsibility realize and it's not going to be coming from the white house or from the systems of all organized don't even try going to be coming from you agree and yet you do it right that a major premise mcluhan wrote on you that is the case if we've overcome a design ineptitude we had prior to that and how the situation has changed why is that not on the lips of every politician or every thoughtful