good evening good evening and welcome very very much to conversations where i'm extremely pleased to welcome to the program today mr rabbi doom dum who is visiting here in new york city from from london and is the author fifty nine the st edition of it and it deals with the establishment of the principles that are involved with the i believe the no to a cart the transformation the title of the book to what do you refer when you say the trans valley a non jewish people similar that it is possible to have all the peoples in the world i'm sorry it's possible to have a nation without a state where the jewish people through two thousand years of the as the jewish people we could say in many parts of the world did they constitute a nation or unethical or in what way was there a commonality among the the top and if they are of the jewish tradition mother born tradition and their duty but are increasingly secular and not observing or not reading continents of the jewish people as long as they object they are out the costs of the interpretation of the torah it is before you said before the camera that there is the torah as holy right writ there is then then tom moody interpretation of what is meant by that yet there are differences of opinion about what is it how to interpret is how it is to be interpreted there have been different groups within the judaic tradition throughout the millennia and now we have in the modern experience rabbis reform conservative and so forth it's an interpretation of those truths and there's room for and how an individual can come to the rabbi to get into a vision how do i do this that is in keeping with the torah in terms of something that they would want to do in their lives they're confused they look for spiritual guidance from the torah and interpretation of what top those who represent the reform or conservative movement within judaism much less secular lee inclined jewish people would probably feel differently than a huge is that they  moving with the world that does change the world changes we must change with the world there's new technology that new realities and we must not we must be able to change appropriately with the world day th medicine as a natural a human yes lemming need a human study and this develops according to new human understanding and we lose a great deal of human suffering about the wii i'm not talking change a stall should not be a stall you can only say from this straw we can make dead it's became make buildings we can make medicine sealant on from storm but the storm itself is i'm not able to change of the jewish people but you can't have the real religion how does the real religion the truth of the religion as we in turn have it from the ancient times through time when it comes up against the revealed truth of  modern science yes which can't be denied the true do not want to be free they want to be liberated within learning we could talk also about freud and some of the workings of the human mind and other questions that come into understanding the increased knowledge of understanding of the world so that we were coming to a greater understanding than we have had in the past people who years ago thousands of years ago had been sent out from his or it is time for them to other and to reestablish their own state in order to be strong not weak to be strong so that they can protect the jewish people who the gentile world had set about trying to destroying the nazi holocaust and so forth but the idea of us have to the state of israel isn't your idea in your interpretation is not in keeping with for doing saw this horny contents of the jewish people is also expressed in the way ha ve to live collectively in our all the kings of the well did not belief that the enemy will be capable of breaking through defenses of the jewish people and invade is the destiny off to jewish people and this destiny is not meant to be a land amongst the lands a people amongst the people and his education and also it became probably as you think in the minds of many an obvious outgrowth of the horror of the nazi holocaust yes been crossed they desire and how interest a mason would the spiritual leaders who have throughout the millennia of torah true judaism interpreted the torah and in your view that this is opposite to what the torah says should happen how do the spiritual leaders not the military secular leaders or maybe even agnostic or atheist to leaders of the jewish community deal with that they perhaps would just say it's legend or something that they would not do but the torah the start of this the people who study the torah the people who understand through the years of time maybe interpretation how do they reconcile themselves in their support of this state and this development with what has traditionally been done and interpreted the torah to mean that this is something that ought not to be done that it's zotz it's a blasphemy or perhaps even a heresy of the understanding of how the in gatherings to curb this dependence on who met this str stronger they get the more it goes it sounds a little bit like answer right away something of that sort of could be but what about those who point to the holocaust what about those who also point to the sense that the reason the jewish people were so vulnerable to the atrocities of the of the concentration camp until was because they were politically weak that their traditions kept them politically weak and that the time had come for them to be strong the time had come for them to exert themselves to say never again will we allow ourselves to go passively or peacefully or easily into the mouth of open anti semitic persecution and so forth we are a part of the rich people we will support ourselves and stand strong people want to stand strong not to be weak and vulnerable in a threatening world do understand and that must appeal very strongly to many many people particularly as we come to an age of tomic bombs and so much destruction that there is all around us that they think we can find security by being strong and security for the jewish people by being strong we cannot by the opponent in poland we should prevent them to power that not to do so when hitler invaded the balkan states is impossible to tell you i'm the less you are not supported by the united states and not the arabs learn to say yes we will accept the jewish people here put down their threat against israel except the jewish people there and allow israel to live in  this is not all tube or this can be all that and it is being all that all the tot mom it will take happen there as you look ahead or if you look at the area we don't have a few minutes left as far as the situation israel and the relationship of the arab states what ought to happen in court to bring it in accord with your idea of what said nonsense doesn't play any importance that we live in the time that we live in a time now we're through the science and the technology in the extension of consciousness has given us atomic bombs has given us hydrogen bombs has given us bacteriological weapons for us to fight nation against nation to where apparently we reached the point after thousands of years of our development where we could have we unleashed all the weapons of destruction and destroy all human beings on the planet all  something that we could not do that on ten years twenty years ago we could not do two hundred and two thousand we could not do this right do you think it might that we have such technological destruction to destroy ourselves that might also be able to bring the peaceful world that it's the torah says it must be in order for there to be that if we were to find a way past the war and to serve the people of the world appropriately trans national and international as one human community we can create conditions that might make it seem to be able to be seen as appropriate feeling more appropriate for the fulfilling of the but i want to thank you really very very much for all that reading and conversations and i would again remind you in the audience it has been your pleasure sutton's of rabbi tome tome dome dome who is the author of this the trance formation a book talking about these very things we've been talking about very very happy to have been able to bring his perceptions to you invited tune in again next week we will be coming back next week on conversations once again rabbi thank you very very much for giving us your time and spiritual leadership and knowledge over this and also again i would again like to welcome you back to new york city that's all for this particular segment we'll be coming back again next week so we'd like to at this time say good night and thank you very much for viewing and we will see you next week