welcome to stop the madness practical ways to influence the incarceration crisis i'm here with the doors mangrum the real host of this show and we're going to discuss the incarceration crisis doors from my experience at working for the police and all that i find some of these questions still out there like why the industrial complex there in prison industrial complex why the prison mass increase aeration crisis yeah that's when you're going to get it there's money being made clearly and thank you by the way for joining me here today jimi there's lots of money being made lots of big money being made you know th war on drugs if you will started back in early seventies one hundred seventy one percent say with president nixon and you know anything we need or want to get a handle on we typically do so there is a reason there has been no hands on the war on drugs if anything it's it's it's expanded it's expanded because people are making money if you look just right down to where prisons are located often they're located in rural areas in those rule areas where there's nothing there but that prison but that prison then brings jobs and brings prosperity brings more votes and brings more things for that particular area because the prisoners are counted if you will right there in that small area they don't even get counted in in the area from which they may have come on top of all of these things because there is so much money being being brought in for people who already have lots of money that money can then be filtered back in to keep that world in drugs where it is continuing to make more and more money for soon do you think this is just an ingenious way you slavery having slavery all over again because when the group says you know they're making nike shoes were left levinson's a day or something like that well that has been called the new jim crow you know and with that comes if you look at the whole history of the thing you know we made all these strides in the early sixty's with the civil rights movement if you pay attention to go back to your history right after that civil rights movement when things were you know changing and opportunities were expanding came this new pronouncement of the war on drugs which then became with the sentencing the that mandatory sentence that just spoke about earlier a way to to now close your eyes down if you will on the small communities of color and then start to drive people out bringing people out by scores and then one of the other things that we don't often talk about when we talk about the crisis and how it got so large is in the ninety's what you also had happened was the welfare reform right and when that well for reform came in and people got short money and got limited times that they could spin on welfare well it sounded like a good thing but at the end of the day those people who were caught up in that cycle if you will now need to get their money from somewhere else so if you didn't get the jobs the drug trade became a way to get in  and make ends meet if you will and if you look at the history that's when things really just started to grow and grow and grow the numbers went from you know what they were very small numbers couple hundred thousand to two point two million maybe two point three million as we speak that are just in our jails and prisons that's not talking about the parole probation and other super commitment in the community that people have to make and then all the families and children and communities that are devastated as a result right y ou know they have the something about prison being overcrowded and then they have to let some people out so they give you two hundred dollars on a bus ticket that's part of the recycling process they know you'll be back shortly  is one of the things why i have put so much energy behind trying to keep families together for over twenty plus years i worked out at santa rita in a program that was a parenting life and relationship skills program that had a enhanced component of visit for the children right and so with that when you stay in touch with your child not only does it help the child but also for the person that's on the inside of the walls have hope about something to come back to a reason to do the right thing and by bringing that child you're also keeping the family together so to speak to how do we get rid of it my my thrust has been around keeping families connected thereby keeping the community stronger because the family at the end of the day is our first unit of government if we don't keep them strong right the commu families for almost thirty years at twenty five of those being dedicated to working with families behind the walls my work now is primarily advocacy and when i say advocacy i think of myself as a pied piper a good ride titan going out into the communities and sharing some of the very things that we're talking about because by and large if you have not been directly hit by it or know someone you're oblivious to to what's happening so my goal is to make people aware of not only what's happening directly to the individual but the collateral piece happening to our children our families and our communities about not just letting them know what's happening showing them ways that they can get involved and being a part of the answer helping them to become aware of the prison complex helping to understand how the monies are being held and understand about band the box and how that impacts people when they come back because a lot of people have said to me well you know what i don't know doors of i really want to help you cut these people are only going to get back in trouble again will i take them a step beyond that why do people return back why d were sort of a ok ones which you said about the two hundred dollars and that's all you're given right but the other reason is because we make it so hard with the second level of punishment no jobs no housing limited assistance and in many cases you can't vote against all these kinds of things lock him up and throw away the key and that reminder of what happened with their mandatory sentencing think oh wow this is such a great thing and now it's backfiring on us because people heard you know where they're going and they'll stay for life well it's twenty five to life in most cases and in it if  do good in there's a case a chance that you might get out before that but what a lot of people have missed in that whole thing is that ninety five percent of people come back home and so by and large we're being inundated with all these people who are coming home who we are not ready to receive right and so my job as an advocate is to get people ready to receive and when i say get people ready to receive have every person recognize is there something you can do ok well you're comfortable working with offenders well you might feel comfortable working with grandmother who's tak on her grandchildren as a result of her son or daughter being incarcerated to try to keep them out of not only the penal system but the foster care system as well or you might start a support group for the family the mother who's left behind so that she knows someone is hearing her or help her get in school so she can help other education because in many cases when her husband or a loved one comes back home he's not going to be able to get a job right away is at all so if that person is not just simply been sitting there waiting but has done something to empower themselves they're in a better position to be able to support now this new mouth that has to be fed the test to be messed with also so to in a nutshell what i do is advocacy i go out to conferences across the country and blessed to be able to speak to not only people whose lives have been impacted to people who will control their lives wardens an assistant wants to get them to hear some of the kinds of things that they can implement to be family friendly to help people be able to not only go home but stay home so you feel that you are individually i don't want to hear well you know those people it's those people thing but with two point two million as i stated earlier on top of the seven point something million who are in our energy of cycling in and out on a monthly basis right people are coming back and they're not ready they're not ready so it becomes everyone's problem because it is speeling over into our communities that i give you this example you know you think about you go to ok it's not in my community but when i go to my a t m i'm looking over my shoulder and one if someone's going to come and try to take my cart or when i'm at a stop sign you know i'm wondering if there's going to be a road rage somebody's going to try to carjack me or take whatever is in my car happen so these kinds of things not all result of people coming home and not having somewhere to go but by and large a lot of it is so my job as i have taken on myself is to let people know all of us must jump in because together if we work together i believe that little by little we can change this thing from where it is now to where it ought to be it can happen but we all have to be a probably can't just hole corrections law enforcement police officers people who have organizations that do this work big time churches who you know do great social service everyone has defined it but you like to knit if you like to knit started knitting club for the three or four children who are out there because getting a handle on the incarceration crisis isn't just about the people who are beyond the walls  it's also about the ones who we want to make sure don't go by hand  the violence in our community which is looking at the violence and trying to deal with the violence but we're not getting enough people interested in what's causing it so now we can put a put a lid on it if you will and start to bite it off and take it to a manageable place now what about these  of the things that we have to look at with gangs was a gang so success well i mean you see we have to look at the psychology and and the anatomy of the game when we talked a little bit earlier about how the breakdown of the family has occurred as a result of so many people being taken out ok grandma in many cases taking care of these young children grandma is seventy years old and she's not physically capable in many cases she's not equipped digitally with all of the new things that happened she just the way things have changed the way children and the way they were thirty years ago that's a big deal for grandma to try to get so she can be all the things that she's trying to be and stepped out wonderfully to do so in many cases what happens is these use who are getting involved  gangs the gang sets themselves up as family that's the way it's structured we can make of all those gaps we can be here for you we understand you know we can help you with your challenges and with that comes this nurturance if you will of  that we might not understand it because we're not a part of it but there is a there is a nurturant that comes from the gang and we real you when to do then do our bidding and so it just becomes this vicious cycle and so we have to then look at what are the gangs doing that we're not going to in the community at the grandmothers spoil the child more than anything else and that doesn't help a lot when you think about it the jimi that's the nature of a grandparent that was once there really supposed the babysitter of because they're out partying somewhere only thirty years old that is the case in the cases as well but then you have to look at on the flip side too if we're talking about tradition as we think traditionally of grandparents they were getting ready to go into their golden years to do what is they do right and now this whole their whole has been turned around as they try to keep their family together i think relative caregivers aunties older brothers and sisters and older cousins are kind of the community piece that we forget because the thread of community that is still left in our in our communities of concentrated disadvantage are pretty much by and large on the backs of relative caregivers who stepped up to the plate and say we're going to do this but what we as a community have to do is to well so we know it's community have to look at that and say we see this seventy year old grandmother or this thirty eight year old grandmother who now as we call us of the age has stepped forward to take care of her children are her sister's children are her brother's children now how are we going to support them they've turned their life on a dad what can i do for a playdate can i go and just be a friend can we start a support group can we get a resource and because now remember because they stepped out for the family they now ours have stepped into a world that they may incarceration crisis that didn't start with the incarceration crisis in terms of if you're if you're referring to the set up this creates a situation the result because i think it would be unfair to blanket it that way and we because you can find we can find issue in any you know you can have a totally whole family and there be a problem or you could have a grandmother at eighteen a grand a grand great grandmother you know what i mean and thirty and that in and of itself doesn't create the problem could it be a part of the problem because there are you know there's child after child coming in maybe not necessarily someone to they care and nurture and guide them it could be but to blanket it and i think that's one of the things that we fall into and that's one thing that we're being sold and you know again on the media in terms of things being you know want people wondering out loud is what i say and so when they wonder out loud and say the same thing over and over again we tend to start mimicking and repeating those things i think that there are some release seriously wonderful use that come out of single parent homes mother or father who have may have come from an eighteen year old grandmother radio great grandmother and so it it we can't put it on that i think we might be able to look at the whole picture and say you know now that this has happened maybe get them some education around you know if it's this birth control that you're not aware of if it's the kind of support and around education whatever it takes to make sure that we continue our race if we continue our communities if we continue our families and strengthen them instead of looking at what they're doing wrong let's look at what's going on that we don't believe is the best and then try to steer in the right way with support and information that sounds like a winning percentage of african american males that we have in pentateuch based on numbers in the society in terms of the males i don't know if it's just the males i'll give you what i know in terms of african americans we make up thirteen percent of the united states population and we make up thirty seven percent of the prison population and so you know it is disproportionately is  that's a crime it is a many but you know when you start looking at only one community at the communities come primarily black and brown that's what's going to come out if you train if i train my eyes over here if i have all of my officers on a particular corner because this is a hot spot right then i'm missing maybe things that are happening elsewhere and i crossed the town doesn't mean it's not happening it just means these are the people who are getting getting in prison as a result of it and they want to claim that crime is in communities but what about the reports in the afternoon commute this in the poor community is that all the quote crime is reported it's in the poor communities where we see certain things looked at in a particular way right it's in the poor communities where this particular incident in the poor community was a felon this particular incident in another community was accident so it just begins to be this this mindset shift that has to happen and it's only going to happen if enough of us get upset about it  upset about it to start doing things more than lips or things one of the things that i do not do anymore is and i shouldn't say do not because sometimes you say always and never back to back but by and large i stay away from summits and think tanks and round table discussions because i'm tired of talking i want to say ok here's some things i have some ideas we can do to get started and well we don't have time oh you know what we were just going to the think tank the big wait a minute all we have to do is take think tank to the next level that's now start doing this and so i get frustrated when when when we don't take we don't take our action because you know a dream is a good and that's a lot of times what i think think tanks are their dreams and they're amazing dreams but actions are better  are needed to be respected in terms of understanding what's happening you know if mom has been snatched out of the house overnight or dad's been snatched or if someone has seen it happen there's going to be some trauma there's going to be some some stress  and often times where the mistake is made where we don't tell children a truth we want to make up a story but i always say that it is important to tell children the truth because then that speaks to why mom came be available that's why dad can't be available and so you know sometimes you have trouble with you know separating the incarceration act from the individual and what you did is the act but who the person is is the whole person this is a good person who made a mistake now are there some horrific crimes some people who do some awful things that you maybe can't separate them from the yes i'm sure there are but by and large many of the people that we bring back and don't help are people who made a mistake and we want to make that mistake be who they are the mistake they paid for it we can teach our children that dad made a mistake but he's still a good person if that be the case if it was not a crime against a child if it was not a gram against family then that is the way that we keep them thinking well of their father are thinking well of their mother it's so important for us to have and set story and so important for us to have these these connections of family so when we break down and we start saying negative things about them then you know then that child's little shoulders are going to drop in the process as well so i think it's critical that we make sure that our children are given good information that they are kept in contact it is a case where you know you want to stay in contact so it's good for the person on the inside but it's also good for that child because they know that mom or dad is coming home they know that mom or dad still loves me they know that mom and dad are safe right because you know some of the problems that we see in children if you if you listen to some of our teachers you can see an overnight change in behavior in a child when their parent goes into prison but then when we are able to keep them strong and keep them connected that channels and mom and dad are ok then helps them to understand and if mom or dad that is incarcerated can still speak into the life of that child through letters and phone calls and card and trinkets that's very important as well because you haven't been to jail yet i think it's fair and i think it's very sad because what happens in in my and i when i an exact try to always think beyond what i hear what drove that statement where did that statement come from why why is it now seen as a rite of passage and it is very deep so now we have to get here again undergirded don't take the same so my gosh they believe kids are saying that is it which is what most most of us do we sit back and they're saying this now why why is it that strike up a conversation right well all men under twenty five are going to go to prison all minute twenty five or not that's what's being sold to you and so now people begin to see hope have no hope and then they begin to get involved in again as you mention little bit early start to see no hope for themselves but to sell drugs or do other kinds of things and so we as the community we as the larger society we must get involved i do something called the sadia on experience and and i mention it on one of the one of the times here  on on the set where i give people ideas about what they can do i debunk some of the myths i talk about changing your perspective i have a film part of my film stain changing lives after incarceration that is shown and we have an art exhibit that was given to us by by members of the of the incarcerated family and you will who are affected directly by the stain and what it does is it gives a person who attend this event an opportunity go wow i never thought of it this way or wow let me look at it from a different way or wow these are some ways i can get involved and what is hoped that will come out of that is when that person leaves that event that they now are equipped with some ideas about how they not someone else not the organization how they might help the organization but how that individual is now going to get involved and looking to get into colleges and into schools and to educate our youth and in up and coming leaders talks about all these things  is what i show in the in the in the in the film it's just a piece of it how in packs the families how it impacts the person coming home but we show just enough of it in this experience for people to say you know what i had never thought about it this way impact this is an enlightening piece is going to change things that well you know what it for those who are open and ready for change we can't change anyone without read a change you can only receive what you're open to receive and change is really difficult for us yes we've got a couple of minutes left so what else can we where we left anything out there are so so many errors so many areas around the arena you know we when we think about prison we typically think about the man and i like to always remember that there are mothers many mothers who are going in who are incarcerated about a million and i see a million incarcerated they're either affected by some type of community supervision or about two hundred thousand that are incarcerated that there is even a deeper impact when that mom goes in because she many times was a nurturer and on top of all those things she may not have somebody to support when the men go in typically they have a woman left that has been taken the children when the woman goes in and grandma doesn't step up to the plate or sumpin remember that child is more  likely destined for foster kids to raise themselves on the street kind of what we're talking about how that how we're now we've talked about all of the things that are now what are we going to do about it which is the premise of my work wonderful i you know i like i said i travel all over the country and some of things i'll tell you what i mean tell you quickly about one thing that happened that i'm just excited about i spoke at a conference in another state and talked about the things that the president could do to make it family friendly within forty eight hours of my speech did implement one of those things in that prison and they wrote me to tell me about it thank you if we're just known to do this kind of thing we would have done it a long time ago so my goal is to make people be him to think with both sides of the brain to become creative and to expand the way we look at the prison prison what you call it prison industrial complex mass incarceration problem the inundation of our communities and let's not just look at the problem we've got to deal with the problem but let's deal with what's causing