a good trip to u k that's right yeah yeah toward london cambridge birmingham on a national book tour of the united kingdom i'm touring the united states right now all right very good well it's a heck of a book i had a chance to look at a bear with my ignorance we're going to be you have a regular program and science a weekly national radio show a national radio show but he's got a new book out is just out january this year and it's called parallel worlds and we're going to be talking about this book and other matters of of considerable cosmic import as it were and it's a great pleasure to welcome him to the program and welcome very much michel it's good to see you glad to be on the show really ok that's good i wonder if you could we're going to talk about the book but i want to be if you could share some of your own a little of your own background if you could and know you've written other books hyperspace or talking to one that you had visions that who think that and you have this radio national radio program that brings science into the consciousness of a great number of people which i think you and the world thinks you but could you share a little of your own background well you know i grew up in california and we've lived of course under the the fear of the nuclear age declared testing however you know for me that was fascinating i wanted to know more about this and when i was a child of eight and had just died and it was all the newspapers that a giant of science just died but on that very same day they flashed a picture of his desk and all the national media and the caption was unfinished work of the greatest unfinished project and i said to myself what could be so great that einstein could not finish it well it was a lifelong endeavor but i found that it was the unified field theory  everything right a theory that was going to go night gravity is the nuclear force in all the forces of the world so that we could read the mind of god that was the dream and today we think we have it today we think we actually have the theory and the theory is far beyond anything what einstein conceived of it's a theory of parallel worlds it's a theory of other dimensions is a theory that's rocking the foundations of modern science so i got started on to it when i was a child or just a child yeah entering that question  the unified field theory that's right and i was but in yours is coming out of quantum mechanics and is there a difference in his or different approach to things and does it matter it matters and see einstein gave us a picture that the universe is some kind of is made out of atoms and it's slowing down now we realize that everything i just said is wrong while the old picture of einstein worked very well when we had old instruments like telescopes and now we have satellites don't we ever and because of satellites we have what is called the currently orbiting the earth which is giving us a revolutionary new picture of the universe st of all the bubble is not really made out of atoms i'll talk about it in a nd is made out of dark matter and dark energy the bubble is not slowing down it's speeding up it's accelerating out of control and the thing that i wrote about in the book parallel worlds is that there could be other bubbles now in slide number one where we have a picture of my book maybe we can try and bring it up or we can yeah yeah ok if you look carefully and i slide number one you see that there's really a multi verse universe as coexisting with other universes bubble universes each with their own galaxies and their own expanding you know we can see that now that's the slide number you can see it on the monitor not right look carefully you know that picture yeah you see that each bubble has its own set of galaxies its own set of nebulas and stars and we believe in a multi verse of universes now we believe that our universe even before the big bang co existed with other soap bubbles other bubbles expanding and to me this is very pleasing because while my parents are buddhist but i was brought up in a christian tradition where we have genesis in buddhism in buddhism of course there's no beginning there's no and there's just timelessness and now we have many states but we have a beautiful melding of the two ideas you know we have  genesis constantly taking place in a van a of higher dimensional hyperspace oh ok ok that involves quite a little bit in there and that sort of thing and you spoke before about we have these telescopes we have these satellites now and there's one wilkinson something wilkinson microwave and i suppose a probe in the last era we had giant telescopes like at mount wilson one hundred dollars inch telescopes that gave us the picture of the soap advice i made as able to measure with such acolytes right now satellites have changed everything i don't think it only of course dream of having satellites vindicate his theories and but now we can calculate the age of the universe to within one percent accuracy and that with  universe the shockwave you can see the gases coming out of the original shockwave i don't know if we can maybe try because i see if i can find that picture just right here at the beginning and this is maybe if you can just give magoo time to come focus in on this little constructed so remove that but here you actually see the shockwave this is the actual explosion of the big bang itself a baby picture of the infant universe showing the explosion that took place thirteen billion seven hundred million years ago yeah and this picture is three only three hundred and seventy thousand years after that event that's right and staggering and i'm getting right back to the beginning near the beginning of ties like a baby that's about an hour old they obviously rhyme and some people of course don't believe in the big bang but we scientists have photographed it isn't it coming to be generally recognized as the big bang is sort of part of the standard understanding of things well i would hope so but there are some fundamentalists who don't believe in evolution and don't believe in the big bang theory and actually try to get school boards not to executing motions that are impossible in three dimensions only in four dimensions can that cube actually exist and that's why we're at the book hyperspace to show you that we physicists no longer believe in a three dimensional universe  this well i grew up in san francisco area where there was a japanese teagarden and at the garden i used to look at the fish swimming just beneath the lily pads in a very shallow pond and i used to wonder what would it be like to be a fish in two dimensions they could swim forward backwards left and right but the concept of up up into hyperspace up into the rd dimension made no sense to the fish and then i imagine that there was a scientist in in there and the scientists will say bah humbug anytime someone said there's a world beyond the pond that there are other pond you know that there are beings beyond the pond anyone can see there isn't any but this part that the universe is the pond and then i imagine as a child grabbing the scientists lifting the fish into hyperspace the rd dimension where the fish would see beings move without fins that is us beings breathing ponds out there really freaked them out today we physicists believe that we are the fish we spend all our life in our pawn called this soap bubble of ours we move forward backward left right down this is the parallel universes and we are now spending get this billions of dollars at the most advanced university centers around the world to test the presence test for the presence of these parallel universes now for example th that's beginning to be accepted or is not just a very short period of time ago that would have been thought of as outlandishly mythic five years ago people would snicker perhaps and you talked about to measuring the presence of an alternate universe you had some of that problem  st major book to introduce the american public in fact the people of the world to what we physicists are working on you will reveal this reality won't you would mess up our are understanding is like we're celebrating the th anniversary of the special th relativity in this year one hundred and ninety two thousand and five are we not that's right so you had to go and write theory of relativity and bring up all these things it just upsets everything well it takes us beyond einstein identifying gave us this picture of the expanding soap bubble and now we're going conceived of what is a gravity wave it's three satellites orbiting the sun you know connected by a laser beams making an equal lateral triangle the triangle is three million miles across why it is the largest the instant the big you know to go back and forth three hundred and seventy two thousand year instant of creation wait a minute now you had and yet analogy in there that if you're at the top of the empire state building you look down through time to the th floor would down below that right to the very instant of creation itself this is no action we're talking about a trillion of a nd term of the big i think this is why elisa is creating such tremendous excitement in the physics world the more the st time now we can begin to visualize the baby universe coming out of the womb right instead it comes out of the will right and we do believe that there may be an umbilical cord right through the through these other parallel you have right now in the rd slide ok in the enough energy to to play with the energy of the big bang we could actually create a bubble like this in our universe it would be a bubble universe if you stick your hand if you stuck your hand through the bubble it would wind up on another galaxy we physicists believe that this is how our universe was created another galaxy another universe yeah yeah yeah yeah right now how do these chords form between baby universes and parent universes and that's in a certain sense like a singularity and the creation of this universe that we've been accustomed to assuming is the whole of what it gripes will be will get the shock away from the universe of the universe was smaller than a penny stuff this is huge then we're talking about reading the mind of god we're talking about the ultimate theory the theory of all theory the mother of all d the aries the mother of all theory that's right now remember that that einstein theory breaks down when the universe was very tiny when the universe a small than an atom einstein's theory doesn't really say much at all however we do believe that you could actually trace the universe back even before the big bang using a higher theory called string by black holes with the hubble space telescope with the hubble hubble now the question is where does all that matter go if all that matter falls into the kitchen sink into a black hole where does it go we believe is blown out the other end and the other end being to another even of right whole a white white oh i hope i do do do we have evidence of such within this universe why you know our universe we see no evidence of quite holes we see black holes but we think that our universe connecting two universes so i think of two soap bubbles being connected at the hip with a small little worm hole i wonder if the black hole or maul well take a look at the ground and if a worm boroughs into the ground it comes out the other hundred million years of this universe was a singularity event as far as we're concerned but it could be related to higher levels of a clear oh you never says that exist and this string theory seems to in a in a mathematical and theoretical sense nicely harbored be a harbinger of that possibility that might be demonstrated to us in the time ahead that's right so if we need know a mathematics mathematics that works band correspond to the different particles of the universe so an electron would correspond to see sharp proton my correspond to d g may correspond to in the pheno and by vibrating the string it can turn into they were talking about is that you know being the vibrations of a string so chemistry would be the laws of the melodies the melodies you can play on strings physics would be the laws of harmony that you can play on strings and then the universe would be a symphony of these strings and the mind of god that einstein wrote about in his memoirs would be the same one that didn't play dice with the same god mind of a god would be cosmic music resonating through eleven dimensional hyperspace eleven not  that that's going to be so this is you're introducing the the thing that is introducing a new element in terms of understanding you think you're going to have a hard time in terms of people who are lagging behind and trying to see things within our normal pattern they're going to have a hard time accepting this kind of new theory that is sort of blowing in the wind as bobby dylan used to say about things those illogic well this has philosophical theological and moral implication right there really is a multi verse you know st of all the question is do we exist in these other universes are there clones of us in these other universe we being this biological entity now most of these universes we think are dead universes will work out the solution is a string theory you are not stable atoms are not stable stars do not ignite so most of these universes are dead universes however some of these universes could look very close to ours some of these universes could be separated from our universe b staggering moral and philosophical and theological implications yeah you're dealing with physics but we're talking about human being then we're talking about a biological process which is taking place in this universe in a physical universe and that sort of thing  interesting to me in a certain sense that if i may and i don't want to digress but is really fascinating but i mean you're you get to be where you've got three hundred and seventy thousand years from the beginning a big bang thirteen billion seven hundred million years ago and w bowed down i don't know if there's any correlation or something who humanity or consciousness the consciousness is taking the measure of this all again thirteen billion seven hundred million years of a slow climb up from the using that kind of thing and that i correlation between our biological evolution of consciousness and the ability to take the measure of this thing and the actual physical events that we're able to measure is there any point trying to think of that or well there are people who when th there are physicists who actually try to build a philosophy around that given the fact that it seems quite remarkable that our universe is so hospitable to life we are just right with regards to the stronger stars would have burnt out and life would never have gotten started and there are hundreds there are hundreds of these accidents that just make possible you and me yeah i'm sitting here thinking taking the measure of the whole thing right so this is called the  pay in that kind of stuff or is that beside the point well the question is if the universe is designed then it's designed just right to have the nuclear force give birth to the son d n a give birth the molecule i mean give birth to two cells and there are dead worlds they are so event that you don't necessarily have to have a god it doesn't mean that you know our universe is where stars do burn out very fast and they never gets off the ground atoms are not stable we just happen to live in the universe which is hospitable to life and  why you would be here talking about it right we wouldn't be and here we are and people are worried they are worrying about thinking about this idea is there what's it all about alfie what's the world about purpose that a question comes back again because as charles darwin mention one hundred confirmed that the universe is dying and this is the other great shock coming from the satellite and our universe is expanding out of control it will eventually be blown apart by dark energy which is blowing the universe apart pushing the at the flank temperature bubbles begin to form and these bubbles are in fact gateways they are wormholes they are looking glasses by which intelligent beings in the distant future may leave the universe and escape to a parallel universe doesn't mean that life has to end in the universe and it means that we may be able to regenerate life on the other side by shooting molecular molecular robot yeah but we had to get to the point where we could create molecular computing capab one hundred thousand years of our being and we get the point were to start reading and we get the way that is an escape clause out here by our technological development our knowledge that's right so in other words our toe that all of the anti interoperate function in terms of  between two maximum good systems or as a thing so it's a vibration rather than yeah we'll see these soap bubbles are vibrating and that may be coming to a new relationship in terms of our understanding of our role in the universe rob after about two hundred thousand years of radical joint of the book ok the point of the book is that our role in the universe is not to simply burn out like it's like a cinder good that is perhaps to explore the that is to bring conscious conscious understanding of the process of which we are apart there is a purpose to our existence g and human intelligence has a purpose to it it's not all just chance and assess the and that's what if you take a look at hundred type one type two type three i'll say can also do that yeah we're type zero but we're about one hundred years from being type one which is a planetary civilization that controls every single planetary energy source the weather trek for example the federation of planets all star jack would be a type two civilization type three is go lactic they would control the space lanes of the galaxy itself not if you are type three that means that consciousness is now spread throughout an entire galaxy consciousness conscious beings would have spread throughout the entire galaxy in which case you may have enough energy to open up gateways to other universes i see this is the cause this is called the planck energy the planck energy is ten to the do think that the cork is nothing but a musical note a vibration on a super string and if you look at all the musical notes that the string and vibrate in you get the subatomic particles we see in nature and there are thousands of subatomic particles things we're talking about a baby picture of the infant universe and we will with lisa have a pink picture of the universe as it emerges from the womb and if we had a picture of consciousness and the evolution of consciousness you're talking about in the universe being imbued with consciousness o terms of that evolutionary process of bringing a conscious pattern of understanding the process of which were a part in which we've been the ignorant are coming out of it could be always singularity is on the on the horizon a new kind of development of a new a new condition such as in the evolution of consciousness itself maybe well universal conscious if our universe did in fact come from a mother universe if our universe or chan is a white hole if by chance in the sense that these things just happen to coalesce then that kind of thing but it's a your absolute zero in which case perhaps a type three civilization made it through the wormhole into our universe if that's true it means that there isn't some sense consciousness everywhere wouldn't doesn't the fact that perhaps our universe did not materialize out of nothing perhaps i'm a to our universe came from a mother universe or i'm right in that we're being tested in the sense because we may we have weapons now that we can destroy the whole species and cut off this whole proposition the well they're there oh they're  got a lot of young scholarship winners to go to los alamos to live a more to design the next generation of hydrogen warheads which are the foundation for the software's program for example these are the x ray lasers hydrogen bombs orbiting the we've arrived at a point where if their weapons were to be unleashed unlike the bow and arrow in the rifle if they were to be unleashed we can with some certain scientific understanding a spasm of hatred or something it might well mean the end of the species but there would the human species survive because humanity in terms of we're talking about consciousness the evolution of consciousness they have a self reflective consciouses and there's a ability to take the measure of things is pretty precious then we get to a point where we can transition but we may be closer to that type one than we thought i mean obviously before type one he said to say god to point seven maybe making some progress from zero zero point where we're coming to where there's going to be a new a significant transformation in terms of our incredibly interesting time to be alive it i think is the most interesting of all doing any other time because we're witnessing the transition from type ciro to type one at the greatest of all transitions in our history well that is what i think about it we have the privilege to be rock n roll bluejeans rap music that culture is pretty much taken over the youth market and low bully and so we're already beginning to see the beginning just the beginning of a global civilization a planetary civilization and that's where we're headed for in about   in the immediate sense that we're in immediate we're at a crucial crossroads now where we have things and there were were we the future requires a certain mindset or an understanding of things and we're all caught up with historically inherited institutions and patterns that are it's not there is not at it we need a quantum sort of change in terms of our understanding of the of the of the historical patterns of which were a part were coming out of history james joyce's history is a nightmare from which i'm trying to awaken we haven't awakened yet you don't sense that there's an awakening are you concerned about that so definitely the not transition from type zero to type one is the most glorious but it's also the most providing for the citizens of the world six billion heading for ten in a way that we have not had tradition of the capability of providing so that we could make the world in a certain liberated from the ancient scourges that have plagued mankind throughout this whole evolutionary climate mts us of his i mean but we haven't arrived today we don't have a system of organization that involves all the humanity in a way like the one hundred tr cells of a human organism are united by d n a we don't have a system that's in place that effectively makes that kind of resonating whole of the human society evolved in liberated context that might be relevant to what we need in order to get a residency with the higher order of things well that's type one you're talking about an overall being is only now we're going to use it may not be one hundred years off it might be necessary that we get the pattern to that at a los level of political economic and social organization and so forth involving all of humanity and all of the environment in a way so that we have a core story that if we're going to make it yeah but i think if you take a look at energy consumption of the meal on earth and you get a you know a calculator to calculate when we will attain type one status it's about one hundred years time we're laying the drudgery and we're laying the groundwork for it and you can see the beginning of it like i said the internet is the beginning of a type one telephone system on her but by mid century the whole earth is going to the global patterns of the seasons are being disrupted on earth receive the beginnings of it you know and is going to get awfully bad i personally think that there could be a disaster it may take a global disaster before people wake up to the real or not and not on the order of a apocalyptic disaster where we unleash the weapons of destruction some sort of a about the old days when it was a disaster over there but this keeps going the process disaster now and a real disaster is cataclysmic in a way that's never been the case and i think it may take a catastrophe before people wake up  the threats of what's happening on the planet earth given to politicians are doing anything that's what i'm saying the leadership is absolutely quite i mean there's no there's no leadership really caesium portions of the we don't have vision we don't have a vision that is going to allow the system to be able to realize the importance of everybody and all the ecological content we don't have that kind of a vision in terms of our political leadership and they have control all these weapons of mass destruction that's right that's i'm say we may not make it a typeless that we may not communication of this and we have to have a raising of national we have a raising of consciousness and understanding that's why it's in outer space you don't make contact with other intelligence civilizations probably because type zero civilizations are very cheap and  at another time when there's a but we're a time of that the adverse side of the destructive scenario is a vision of a liberation that is going to liberate us from the context within which we've evolved and that seems not to be on the arising in terms of our political or business or even our intellectual leadership now and that's something that we would want to find in order to get some sort of a way in which we're going to avoid that transition is taking place now but it's going get more severe all the trends that you see now are going to be magnified into the next several decades and like i said before it's going to close some of us give us a five thousand and fifty chance that will make it a type one in one hundred years time we see if we do make it the type one you're talking about a planetary civilization a civilization where people will have instantaneous access to unlimited amounts of information where democracy is going to be is going to be unstoppable why is that one hundred years old we have the capability of doing that having a pattern of that no yabba is not going to happen why for because because no we don't have a for we don't have an economic system for it we're talking about the natural evolution of the economy the natural energy production of the planet which will naturally lead to type one dollar civilization because already you see trading block summers i read you see the information being being shared global asli all these trends will make a planetary civilization regardless of any one nation saying no i don't want to be part of a type one civilization we have a capability look we have it's on on me to language on is science a reality or understanding reality and so we have a new change ontology from what we've emerged out of history and that is that we can destroy the whole species there's got to be an adverse side to that the on you could have been much before but sooner than a one hundred what i'm saying is the natural progression of the economy the mathematics of energy production would naturally create type one civilization one hundred years but if the politicians don't do something there is a side to that what would be the adverse positive side to that kind of an altered ontology i can't help thinking at least one thing to be worth putting on the walls of think tanks that we may have transcended scarcity in terms of material scarcity in terms of the organisation of this planet and that the ontology in a positive vein and that things could follow that we might have systems would let us do what we're capable of do and rather than struggling along on outmoded assumptions that the evolution of consciousness is transcended yeah but you forget one thing what does as frederick douglass once said without struggle there's no progress you know progress takes struggle the politicians are very comfortable the oil companies are very comfortable petrochemical is very comfortable they don't want to make a transition to solar technologies reid who will technologies so well it's going to happen is we're going to see global warming accelerate in well well i think we have  i think there's something in the communication of an alternative and that if you think about some of alternatives you've got to have something that is going to present an alternative to the so comprehensive really appropriate evolution of conscience to be liberating of the masses of mankind and ecology but also so appropriate to the recognising the inherited institutions out of which we come and some people are at the pinnacle of that in the end there will be a leading indicator but in the end they'll be able to understand and go along with that as well but that that will be in the world with communications that these kind of things ought to be brought up by intellectuals of the general citizen or in they everyone who takes the course of action should read your book if i may say so but i think it that kind of thing that challenges before us now there perhaps they've already faced that catastrophe perhaps they realize they have to rein in global warming half the rate in nuclear weapons but other parallel universes perhaps they didn't in which case they're not here to talk about it i would say of self destruct and we may do the same not any good behavior as we were met but it could be that we have a higher calling and that's what it seems to me your work is in calling us to and then i want to just thank you for viewing and thank you for coming and very much the book is called parallel worlds you can do better than good it is highly recommended and micheaux kaku is the best voice i know in terms of trying to make the wonders of science in the human condition accessible to a wide audience i thank you very much for that graduate you know your work my pleasure really yeah it's a great pleasure talking with you i'm sorry we got carried away but it's been a great pleasure talking with you and good luck on the book i think it should be read by one and all and thanks again very much for coming in ok see you next time see into tomorrow thank you for viewing and