their greatest ally in the fight against isis has had boots on the ground for a thousand years howard kabbani kurdish american is with us today welcome our thank you just for the record howard you are someone who  only is from kurdistan but has worked extensively in kurdistan in many different capacities yes i was born and raised in kurdistan and came to america later after graduation and also worked in the area and have read a great deal about the history and the situation in the play area and so today we want to take advantage of all of your experience where you we want to ask you questions that talk about isis talk about turkey talk about syria russia the whole area over there and maybe just maybe there's a country that we haven't talked about in that saudi arabia that we have to as well in terms of kurdistan itself it why not there is kurdistan in the reality however in politics there is no kurdistan on the map because of the politics of the region politics of petroleum kurdistan was a country in history and it was united under the ottoman empire by the way who lost the war to the allies after world war one and then kurdistan was divided among the allies  and they fell under four different countries current countries of turkey iran iraq and syria yeah it's going to get the map up because if you look at kurdistan right now it would take parts i mean this is where the kurdish people live right now right and it's surprisingly isil is a large country and not only in area but in population too yes kurdistan and its population is about thirty million  tell the truth and the area is as big as fronts in fact kurdistan is bigger than many countries in the region for example kuwait like one tenth of kurdistan in  area and population you know and many other countries well yeah actually i want to i want to get a the next map up because we've got a map of the world and just here's just a few countries that kurdistan is bigger than the netherlands accurate or cambodia belgium bolivia sweden austria ireland israel and more kurdistan is bigger than all of those yet it doesn't have its own country yes and that's unfortunate the tragedy of the kurds has started  discovery of oil in the middle east so that's a it's important that was what was important then and hopefully that will change now because of the importance of the kurds for world peace and stability in the region tell us about  the kurdish people we've got a we're going to get a nice picture up a woman right in the middle there seems like there's respect for the woman and you can see the woman's face yes the kurdish people are into your opinion in origin and they have inhabited kurdistan for more than ten thousand years as far as we can go back in history and maybe more in fact they discovered neanderthals in kurdistan the kurdish culture is very open culture and it's kind of more like eastern a very a tolerance religion the kurdish people themselves i think gentle people are they a warlike people what are they well the kurds people generally speaking are very gentle and respectful house however because of this situation that the kurds faced atrocities and the various people trying to control the kurdish society the kurds have hardened and they became fighters for their freedom in the kurdish people are freedom fighters and they love freedom and they will not tolerate anybody to control their lives well they're you know we like americans they love freedom and in fact in iraq under saddam hussein  the kurdish language was forbidden you couldn't speak your language yes and that was part of his asian policy to destroy the kurdish culture and society and turn them into arabs which in part they were successful but they were did not succeed ultimately if saddam was staying in power for a long time and checked they would have accomplished that are kurdish muslims kurz generally the majority are they have xeni that we're going to ask about the unseen is a little bit later on because it's just amazing to me that you know as to why anybody would go after that particular group how would i want to bring something to you from that al jazeera says kurdistan is a kind of a dream an anxious one that floats kurdistan is there and the potential to become a state is there all the elements of a kurdish society is their own language and history and the people are there and you have a military and we have military power now we always had but now it's stronger because of the aid of the u s of course people look at the middle east here in the united states people look at the middle east and they think terrorist are you a subject than people people cannot be terrorists as a whole but there are some some some individuals who try to control people and brainwash them and turn them into violent  of the kurds for a long time we had kurdish in pyar ten thousand years ago called the media empire but then after that the kurds have struggled to unite and become one state because we had so many enemies kurdistan also so we had so many challenges for a united kurdistan what would it what will it it would have taken before this for there to have been a kurdistan a state a country where the media was accomplished but then when it came to the rights of the kurds for independence it was abandoned by the allies unfortunately foreign policy magazine just earlier this year says that the world's next country is kurdistan are you encouraged by that are they right are you is kurdistan about ready to become its own country yet from all the indications and the necessity really for for the world for the kurds to become a country it's important it's really  the for the peace in the region and for america as an ally they need a country like kurdistan the united states is dependent upon israel as its primary ally in the middle east for quite some time now and certainly at least since world war two and keeping the peace over there can israel not do that israel hasn't been able to keep the peace in the middle east they have tried to keep the peace in israel but as you know in the middle east  hard to keep peace and the only people who are really fighting the terrorists in middle east are the kurds and they are the best allies that america has ever had in the middle east in fact the foreign policy article also says that the united states is indeed the ones who today are putting kurdistan back on the map and back on the forefront by saying this was two reasons the establishment of a no fly zone over the region after the allied victory over saddam in  hundred one and then number two the overthrow of saddam and the u s led invasion in two thousand and three is that right that's right there was the beginning of the return of the kurds to power but it's not completed yet because if oil politics not a real country before world war one but they wanted to maintain this that status quo because we didn't want the saudis and the iraqis and the others in the area to be upset with us but the reality is the kurds need to be independent because they've been so mistreated in the past history kurds have oil that yes we have a lot of oil and that's really that's ratcheting we haven't had the oil but the iraqis and the turks and the persians they have taken it from our country and the other countries the superpowers haven't seen that or they just wanted to continue the deal with those governments knowing that the actual oil resources and the natural resource are in kurdistan but the today the actual control over a significant amount of oil oil fields is an occurrence hands today it is and that's why it's becoming really more realistic to have a kurdish state because they see that the kurds are a better ally than most of the people in the region and they're more pro west appropriate and pro democracy politics and their and their behavior but their real dream is to unite under one country someday but right now it's a different situation when it be very very difficult though for there to be a kurdistan as a country itself since you would take from syria from iran from iraq and from turkey in practice it is difficult however but this situation is are an artificial situation created after world war one the allies divided the region in this way it's not set in stone the people are the same people on all those borders but the borders are artificially created by the allies which now need to be changed  an interesting thing here in the united states we hardly ever look at world war one as anything that is current or relevant to us today and your country and in most other countries around the world something that's only been a hundred years ago is very real and it's very rob and it has created so much tragedy in the region the kurds have suffered and all those poor countries and the hands of the major at the so much that it's hard to believe and you can see what some of these criminals are doing to the kurds even today in parts of iraq they're controlling part of the population like the situation they're kurds and they were destroyed by these  terrorists and we have had faced we faced this situation ever since after the invasion of kurdistan by the arabs and other people you know if if you were jewish talking to me about this very thing i would say you know yes i understand you have been persecuted for a long long time is there a similarity between the way that the jews have been treated and the way the  especially since after world war one and the division of kurdistan and kurds becoming a minority in each state and trying to become to gain some freedom from these regimes who are dictators by the way it has created a lot of tragedies in people's lives and that's one of the reasons i had to leave my home country and come to america for freedom turkey is a country that has been a strategic ally of the united states for quite some time strategically located and always has been strategically located between the oil rich region of saudi arabia and other parts of the middle east and the soviet union which of course now is russia at the same point in time turkey hates kurds why whether they had the courage because the kurds are trying to gain their freedom they are they are controlling the kurdistan the eastern part of turkey ever since the ottoman empire controlled the region and they claim all of that is there which is not that they are now they did two million armenians because they were none muslims in turkey and they know they are starting to do it with the turks with the kurds but they can't because the kurds fight back and also because of the new world information going out everywhere they cannot do what they have done to the armenians but they tried this is this is so confusing to  me turkey and united states are allies the kurds and the united states are allies the kurds are fighting isis yet turkey is fighting the kurds i don't understand it is complicated however  if you if you see the situation basically it was created by the current situation in iraq in the aftermath of the us withdrawing from iraq this whole situation was created and turkey has in the beginning tried to help the isis because that was the idea but now they're all turkey helped isis of course for a long time in the beginning they were helping all the  factions against the syrian regime and isis was one of them but now that the west against isis and they want turkey to stop their aid and their cooperation with them they're starting withdraw that they're still involved in two as agreed because of their economic advantages financial times just december first two thousand and fifteen this headline is turkey still sees kurdish nationalism as a bigger threat than isis is that true honestly there i don't think it's true because they're starting the benefit of cooperation with the kurds especially the kurds of iraq most of the business is done in  is with turkey so the u s is trying to bring turkey to see that an independent kurdistan and peace with the kurds helps the region and their economy but because the turks are so racists against the kurds and others like i medians they can see that and they try and but they can't they're completely blinded by that fact but the reality is it's in the best interest of turkey to have peace with the kurds ok they're not likely to change that or they they have to if they want a better world for them and their children and their you know their generations they have to peace as ultimately has to prevail is turkey buying isis oil that's what i read also but i really don't know i'm not an expert on that stuff but there are there's a chance there's a possibility of because all this is going on how do they get their weapons how do they get their money how do they sell their oil somebody is buying there or somebody is buying it and they get in or arms from somebody so it's a you know basically a lot of countries have created the situation including saudi arabia iran and turkey and russia when the united states went into iraq one of the first things that the egyptian president at the time said is that the united states has just created one hundred thousand in la the issue is much bigger than that as you know it started really with the with with this fanatism in saudi arabia and also in iran saudi arabia is another ally of the united states ally oil but not really strategically or fundamentally i mean not throw us off a cliff for sure they're not westerners and they don't believe in the western values of democracy and freedom so how could they be an ally except for oil business well that's the that's the key then isn't it that's the key i think in kurdistan you just need to produce more oil and they will like you and that's what's happening now i mean the kurds are hundred percent cooperative with with america in t west not because of the oil but because they love the values of the west they love freedom they love democracy they appreciate three don't because they never they haven't had it for almost a hundred years so that's why they're so eager to saudi arabia is that where terrorists come from today saudi arabia one of the big places where they come from where they don't come from there however the philosophy that they are promoting is creating this kind of mentality this kind of extremism in the world their teaching their teachings are creating this kind of mr so they need to really change that the for a more peaceful way of looking at the world and and trying to buy people in effect in other countries creating problems like in countries like lebanon and other places and syria i have to ask you this really very dangerous question i don't even want to ask about i'm going to is a war between that wasn't that was not a very wise thing to do at the time when they're trying to fight these terrorists so that's you know i don't know what was the behind that there's a lot of animosity between turkey and russia historically so that could be part of that they don't see eye to eye however we need to stop this violence and these extremists right now before they become bigger and threaten our peace and our freedom everywhere where they come from the terrorists the terrorists are right now the vacuum that was created in iraq in syria has created these people there are remnants of organization that's trying to control people violently of course and all at the same time trying to use the internet and the web to control other young people across the world to lead them into violence against their own people and they're succeeding in doing that and that's the danger and that's why we cannot play politics with this as we are doing now we have to be decisive and going in finishing this kind of violence what does that mean when it we can't we have to be decisive about this what does that mean it means to use all our resources military financial science humanity whatever we can to go in and stop it whether it's helping the kurds get stronger and fight which are the only people who are fighting terrorism right now or going in with the our military might and control the areas and return to peace we have left a vacuum with our military power and which it was filled with this kind of violence so we we have the responsibility really the moral responsibility to go back and clean up this mess so when you say we you're talking about america america of course so we need a strong military presence in this area is what you're saying we need it right now and then we don't need it always we need it right now to clean up this mess and then we can strengthen the kurdish people in the kurdish country to take care of this the kurds have been able to clean their country from terrorism since two thousand and three so they're capable to do that if they were helped in the right way but you can't clean up saudi arabia that is another subject that has to be created violence in the world you need to stop this you need to change it because they are really part of the problem and of course turkey and iran are the same thing you need to stop them from spreading their to let's go to the map of the isis area if you will and it's a moving area seems to be in a gray has taken over a good amount of syria a significant amount of iraq  and it had moved towards iraqi kurdistan but then kurdistan moved it back this area here is a very large area what what is it that isis dash whatever what is it that they want why of course they want to control the area where there were their weird mentality into loss of so it's a just a land grab it's a power grab they felt bad this they lost power in iraq so they're coming back in this way to gain some power and this is their way of getting some power back and they are mixed in with some islamic or religious ideas to give some humanity but they can call themselves whatever they want but the reality is there are criminal groups that are controlling people by force and violence and we need to use our resources to stop this  otherwise it gets it's like a poison and like cancer it can spread around the world as it has recently and actually you know i fear for our freedom that honestly and truthfully i fear that our freedom is in state at stake howard we're coming to the end of our first segment of this and so we're going to come back for part two and so you're going to stay with us and we're going to talk more about isis and the use eating i want all can be done with this s