here i ball here it one yelling arison you're able you're are here you have a core right thank you like to welcome everybody thank you for coming out tonight for those who may be viewing from home or checking us out on another date i'd ask that if you do have a cell phone please turn it on silent before we move into the pledge of allegiance i want to do a couple quick housekeeping things so council's been working really hard to find better ways to respect your time as well as staff time and looking at ways to better run our meetings and find better efficiencies within that some of you come out here to participate and end up waiting till eleven twelve one am so we're going to try to be more effective and efficient council packets come out two weeks early now so that council has a great opportunity to try to dig into the issues and get good questions asked ahead of time so we're going to start a few things and we want to ensure that folks who want to speak have that opportunity please sign in and we're going to call multiple names so that you know that you will be next and ask that we just keep moving folks through if you are here and you took the time and you signed up but you don't want speak but you might agree or disagree with the issue at hand feel free to just let us know will make sure that that that that is noted for the record also on  couple things because we're doing this new i want to propose two changes one would be that we move the consent agenda considering our conversation the consent agenda has one resolution and the other would be to first reading ordinances so that could potentially be a fast fast agenda item to get through and then we have the executive report now at the front so we would need to also in move the presentation for taber down after general public comment because general public comment is for anything that's not on the agenda so those would be my two suggestions if there's any  and so this is something new our executive report has moved to the front of the meeting and you know by the time when kids at ten or eleven pm there's not a lot of time left for our chief executive to give us an update so she's going to give the community an update and well actually you want to go after general public comment then you can come so bear with us so we're going to move things around and we'll go to general public comment and then we'll go to executive report then we'll do the consent agenda and then we'll do the taber discussion and a separate public comment decorum of the city council chambers or frame from applause or audible support discord of the speaker three minute time limit two and a half at all the green light will turn yellow and then your when your time is up it will go read and all politely ask you to wrap that up so please sign up if you haven't had the chance when you come down they'll be a sign up sheet at the clerk's desk to ensure that we have your information for the record and again this is for non agenda items will be a separate comment period for taber related comments coming up part for sixty nine nine hundred seventy the rat rat infested house was not received today as expected the company's website who did this said that they can turn around in twenty four hours it's been two weeks are all wondering you know how much longer is it going to take them so i'm hoping of course that you people and i'm sure you will stand up to them about this daily i just so we're left with we don't know if the house would be will be raised or rejuvenated and if that's the cat case will the owner be moving back in and we don't know those things yet obviously but this i'd like to  city to be ready to address what happens if it is rejuvenated others may dresses tonight too and we do know just need to know the plans going forward in detail including code references in advance of implementing paula returns will she be allowed to bring back her contaminated belongings this is important what measures will be taken to ensure she can never again cause these kinds of troubles in her neighborhood i wanted to because we have so much we've had such a hard time getting any kind of documentation be it e mail you know electronic paper or otherwise i want to read an e mail to kelly houghton's requests for information from jessica clawson who is the business support specialist for the city of like what i mean i don't understand most of it so i don't honey body else can says in the international quest requests you were seeking only e mail correspondence between the city and the home owner specifically that verifies that the homeowner is being held responsible for all expenses as stated in the response e mail there will be e mails between the homeowner and the city not just for the specific subject requested as you if you were to submit a new request with the same wording as the original quest the outcome result would be the same emails and or documents to e mails might be what this is one sentence certain e mails and or attachments to emails might be removed or redacted from documents responsive to a request because it was an attorney client privilege communication understandable information deemed confidential pursuant to the open records act or another state statue electronic e mail addresses provided by a person to an agency institution or political subdivision of the state for the purposes of future liked or in a communications to the person from the agency institution or political subdivision any records of ongoing civil or administrative investigations conducted by the state or an agency of the state police or if you review the section for the full list as if that wasn't comprehensive enough and not understandable because it's a run on you know what we're asking for you all know what we're asking for and we're being told every time we try to get some kind of documentation that you didn't ask for it in the right way it in asking the right place will no one do some oversight here and make sure that your staff is able to provide us with some kind of documentation we need it to represent the people who are upset about consistent handling of this issue has created those sentiments towards you in time because of this kind of in your heels in pushing that uphill thank you thank you lynn kenny and then i evening good evening thank you so it's still over last summer it's still twenty eight it still smells and i'm fearful that the neighbors on lease treat have become used to the older i get a blast when i walk by or even when i'm driving so our car which of course is mentioned lakewood citizens against routes continues to solicit and receive unsolicited comments from neighbors and residents of more than five and there's a theme of what we want in place before probably returns if she does return regular on site inspections i code enforcement with terms conditions and consequences clearly detailed in writing a lifetime prohibition against any current and if there's a predisposition toward hoarding then mandatory appointments with licensed or certified counselor or therapist however as we've been talking about all of this year old results are carry any weight without the support of the entire administration starting with city attorney and the stipulations need to be enforced  staff residents and neighbors i also am disappointed at that at the meet this press this report was not received and i looked up several different companies and they all say that you can have it in twenty four hours so one might be concerned since the beginning has  when i heard you know that paul was there when she was supposed to be and she was hanging out with the remediation company is is this an arm's length transaction this is what i'm asking i know you're not going to answer that tonight but i want you to remember that and i'm the project manager i was for twenty five years big projects so i like to analyze i like wrong and i also liked see how we can fix it good evening welcome thank you i have a contingent here so hi my name is being walker and i'm the logistics corps nater for the communities that care initiative here in jefferson county which focuses on preventing youth substance misuse violence and hopelessness and anxiety research shows that youth from c t c communities were thirty seven percent less likely to binge drink twenty five percent less likely to engage in crime and thirty two percent more likely to have abstained from the use of any illegal drugs for now the jeffco c t c communities include lakewood weak ridge and edgewater with the targeted schools of lakewood week ridge jefferson junior and senior longview and mclean high schools this past spring we hired twenty one youth interns representing those high schools to conduct youth focus groups the analyze data the results were intuitive and insightful with regards to youth perspectives of substance misuse violence hopelessness and adult relationships with youth this summer we continue to hire youth interns to conduct a youth town hall which we just completed this month and they also developed a fact sheets we have a few youth here tonight to present to you about their findings and experiences a few of you are already involved with the jefferson county communities care program such as councilor dana who is on our key leaders board and several of our fine lakewood police officers who are who serve on our community board if you  might know is interested in being part of this community change process please feel free to contact us i have brochures and information with with regards to our fact sheets here and i'll just leave that learned to create public projects for presentations from photo voice stories fires in the infrared graphics to conducting youth focus groups in a dull interviews our first project was a video and now we are working on violence and hopelessness which i'm here to talk to you about today data shows that at least fourteen percent of high school students have been physically forced to have sex when they did not want to during a youth focus group we discovered that teens feel sexual assault is much more common than the data shows the stereotype among our set society is some girls get loose around guys which results in getting raped at parties you know the outcome this is a specific quote from a youth conducted focus group  normalizing this type of violence extremely harmful harmful for our community mental illness is more common than people think that as a direct quote taken from the same focus group a third of youth reported feeling depressed according to the healthy kids colorado which is this statistic we found shocking sometimes felt the community resources resources could be used to help this issue because they don't feel safe talking to adults but the resources could be used to systems we felt that by helping kids with poor mental health directly in our communities in funding and resources we can make a big difference thank you thank you hello my name is nevada terror and i'm a youth intern with c t c i'm here today to talk to you about youth substance misuse which means that teenagers when a teenager between the ages of fourteen or eighteen uses drugs specifically marijuana alcohol and prescription medications according to the two thousand and seventeen healthy kids colorado survey about one in five colorado high school youth have used marijuana in the last thirty days and one in three have used alcohol in the same time period and a focus group conducted by c d c we found that many teens report using marijuana mainly to cope with stress caused by school friends or family because they feel that they have no one to confide in without receiving punishment in return in the same focus group we found that many teens who need or want help for either drugs or maybe mental health do not reach out because they feel like they don't know what will happen after they tell an adult and also because they have to tell is taken by a joke is taken as a joke by most teens leslie over half of high schoolers in colorado said it would be easy or sort of easy to get marijuana and almost sixty percent said that it would be easy or sort of easy to get alcohol only about a third of you thought kids in their neighborhood were likely to get caught by the police if they use marijuana in twenty eight percent for alcohol part of the cause of this attitude could be that many teenagers know that parents  educated about teenage activities even their own i confirmed this can certain phenomena when conducting several parent interviews and edgewater parent after informing me she felt completely clueless said that there should be some easy way for parents to obtain educational information perhaps pamphlets or in depth of a graphics could be mailed to homes of children typically the educational side of this issue has been handled by schools and the law enforcement side by police but since the percentages are as high as i mentioned maybe it's time our community city your resources should be applied  almost a year ago tonight i gave a public comment on my concerns about overdevelopment in lakewood and specifically i shared my observation that the playing director seemed to me to have too much power my comments got zero traction last year with council so here i am again since that time the planning director approved one hundred percent high density housing project on a parcel zoned in me s in ward four near where i live and this led to the city being sued as everyone knows so here we are a year later with the same planning director still employed and he recently said a development dialogue committee meeting in july that he resumed the parcel behind safeway which was the subject of the lawsuit because the was wrong for the parcel in addition he said the developer could build whatever he wants there so my concerns expressed about a year ago were really borne out by the actions over this year and mayor paul when you know you and i met for coffee over a year ago a long time ago and you heard me out on my concerns about developers calling the shots on likely development which is my feeling at the time you gave me a copy of the comprehensive plan and you advised me that between the plan and the zoning ordinance the developers could not just build whatever they wanted wherever they wanted while i you know i felt reassured by that i appreciate the communication that gave me some hope but later it left me a bit puzzle d as has to high how a high density residential apartment complex could be approved in a parcel zone for mixed use employment so my my euphoria with there being some control very quickly  did more research and i discovered that a director has the power to interpret and this power has led to rezoning with no process at all recent comments by the planning director confirmed that the variance procedure has been replaced in some cases with unilateral rezoning by the director here's the bottom line no matter how the development dialogue committee may resume specific parcels as long as the director has the right to interpret the code in the thirty to unilaterally rezone property your efforts can and will be easily overwritten i don't want to see that happen i really appreciate the work of this committee and i want your efforts to to bear fruit history clearly since the message that as long as you have one staff person who can favor developers over th zoning ordinance the developers will be able to manipulate zoning for their profit so step one is to eliminate the right of one person a non elected nonresident staff member to chains owning at a whim and step two is not to rewrite the zoning ordinance for today which seems to be an important focus of the committee today will officially become yesterday effective tomorrow we all know this time moves on so redefining specific zoning today may not be effective as time marches on and city needs change so to me step two is really simply to require that the planning director follow the process in the zoning ordinance that were encoded to deal with ever evolving development issues and i'm speaking about the voting variance process when change needs to happen there's a process for it to happen all it needs to be effective is for it to be properly used and while i appreciate the work of the development dialogue committee the heart of the problem is that the playing director has the power to unilaterally rezone property and he uses this power freely if you don't rein in the absolute power of the director both the zoning ordinance and the comprehensive plan are just a couple of piles of wasted paper  mayor and members of the city council my name's christmas or and i'm a long term resident of lakewood i've lived here for twenty five years and was a homeowner for twenty four of those years and recently moved from my home to some luxury apartments eighty five south union the beacon apartments and moved in there  or in march of twenty eighteen and i live on the south side of the building but i want you to hear this clearly not one day since i've lived in the apartment have i experienced the of someone who should experience peace and the home they live in because of the bristlecone shooting facility not one day i'm recovering from cancer and i frequently need to sleep during the day which is not a big issue i can manage that but when the rest of the civilized world has their windows open to let air flow come through in the summer i have to close my windows and turn on my industrial fans in my apartment to drown out the noise to allow me to sleep during the day i also have a business through my home and i am taking a one year certification program all of this requires me to be at my apartment the better part of the whole day every day i'm not one of those people who has a luxury of going somewhere to get away from this noise i i guess being that i know that you've already heard about this complaint from other residents of the beacon i wanted to give you some statistics i took in the month of july because it's not only the noise throughout the day every day it's after hours in the noise technically their hours  supposed to be ten to seven monday through saturday and up to six o'clock on sunday well these are the statistics i actually documented in july there were twenty one occurrences of the facility shooting after seven o'clock at night there are sixteen occurrences after eight o'clock at night there were thirteen after nine o'clock at night and there was even one occurrence after ten thirty at night where i actually had to call the lakewood police because it woke me up out of sleep when i opened my door to to actually hear what was going on it was the bristlecone shooting community again those statistics though i  mean those statistics are really troubling i'm here as a representative of several people from the beacon community i am not anti gun i want to make that very clear but i am anti noise and i believe in peace and we should have peace around our homes union square is not the same place it was in february twenty sixth seen when the bristlecone facility first opened up there's three hundred forty eight apartments now within a football field that facility i'm not only worried about the noise but i'm worried about the environmental impact i don't know we don't know what's coming out of out of the air from the bristle cone community we don't know what's getting into the ground around the facility how do we know and how can we be given assurance that that we're not that there isn't you know lead pollution that there isn't that type of thing going on as well because again we live within a football field of this i was i was lamenting to a friend recently about this whole situation as i'm doing with you tonight and she said so how do you feel living there and i feel i said i feel tortured i said i'm exhausted living in my own apartment in this luxury apartment off of the union i'm exhausted all the time because this noise never stops so i would pose this question to the to the city council and you mr  tonight what if this was your neighborhood your home your piece that was being compromised all day long every day how would it make you feel so my question in the bigger sense is what can be done about this this is not normal in a residential area this is not normal ok this is a huge problem ok so that's what that's what we're here to to hear your response about is is what are the next steps for us to get some get some peace of mind thank you very much thank you you know and then mike evening thank you i'm here it's not political is time i'm just here to inform and so that second wind is coming back to green mountain some of you may be aware or not i did send some of these fliers through your newsletters only information is on the flyer and you are particularly invited mary as you are starting it remained high school and that's your home school thank you used to run it cleaned up not in allowing staff to do it because they've dropped the ball terribly number two i understand that whenever you have a group of counselors together three or four of time that that's a quorum and that you have to have a meeting posted outside on the board board i didn't see that meeting on the bulletin board or on the website that's against the law i would suggest you keep on top of that all public meetings have to be  domain to take those properties along thirteenth avenue for the bike path every one of them said we will never use eminent domain i'm going to hold you to that those people have a right to get their full value if they want to sell it that's necessary to its response will make sure to do that including talking to the owners that person i wanted to this is my first time to have an executive report while it's still light outside so i thought i would try to organize this and i would really welcome your feedback individually if you'd send me an e mail and tell me if this is helpful the way i'm going to organize this is first department highlights then employer recognition and then project updates upcoming agenda items and special interest information so again i appreciate your feedback so let's do it department highlights construction will begin in two weeks for two particular projects one is the hilltop park playground h top park is unmoored two it's it's a little bit hidden it's ninety seven sixty six west twenty second place so those kids over there are going to get a new playground and it's high time for that also in two weeks we will start the construction of the comedy splash pad also a real popular site that's in word five the city clerk's office we've just completed our first year with a full time passport agent first the first year and all told we we finished about three thousand applications were process which amounts to about two hundred fifty passports per month under the category of cyber hygiene maybe you haven't heard that term cyber hygiene so i'm conducting internally gap assessments to make sure that from a security perspective that we're safe so that under cyber hygiene and love a term well addiction i have folks over a miniscule courts have convened or will be convening a group of partners to look at where are where we have some gap assessments and i want to talk about who all the agencies that will be participating in this particular forum again this is about opioids and what we can do as partners in the community to really help work towards solving this really difficult issue and here the agencies jefferson county sheriff jeffco public health jeffcoat jail medical assisted treatment which is the m eighty the phoenix multisport which is a gym for recovering addicts the arts program which is a treatment provider streets hope another treatment writer jefferson center of course another treatment provider stout street action center creative treatment options slash hope program high tech offender monitoring and finally david's house which is a sober living facility that meeting will occur on mid august and all that you know what kind of what kind of process and what kind of things that they find finally our summer camps did you know today i think is close to the first day of school if not the first day of school so that means the conclusion of our summer camps program and here are some of our highlights the city received a tony grampus youth services program grant and was able to fund two free camps in low income areas dean and home elementary schools a total of one hundred two children participated we also had a teen adventure camp it was offered for four weeks and had fifty participants also funded by the tony grampus grant there was a camp  successfully serves sixty five campers and then twenty eight campers in the p eighty program at fletcher miller we had a multiple sports camp at carmody it was offered for ten weeks with a total of four hundred four little campers and those kids came home exhausted which is exactly what mom and dad want to have gymnastics and climbing camps have also been really successful we held eleven camps and that served one hundred ninety nine little participants and finally a really exciting one lakewood offered the new ninja swim camp little ninja warriors in lakewood it was a hit filling the first week of registration and w three weeks and we had seventy two little junior ninjas right here in lakewood all together lakewood served over nine hundred twenty little campers in our summer camp program from an employee recognition perspective id team wanted to do a team building event so they decided to volunteer at the action center they gave they went as a group and they gave us four hours on the eighth just volunteer in putting together ready for school packets for the kids with a nice way to do ten team building and also helping our community agent matt shea he did the active shooter training and our own detective jim ak they just received their master firearms instructor certificates from the colorado firearms instructor association it's really a prestigious award and they are number seven and eight in our state to receive the certification so congratulations to agent shea in detective tours ak and finally we have a very excited golf pro on our hands ok part of the box has been our golf pro for twenty five years just celebrated the twenty fifth anniversary of fox hollow and he's been here for every one of those years and has seen a lot of for sums and a lot of lost balls because our play their project updates project updates this is very germane to the conversation we are some of the comments we had a public comment we have two important things happening we have convened an internal meeting with two of our city attorneys and our police chief  public works director and myself to work on the dilapidated building committee and the idea behind that committee is to really look at the ordinances that we have in place as relates to some of these problem homes maybe think about the rat home think about homes that have hoarding hoarding experiences that have impact on neighbors we have a couple of homes with some drug issues some meth kind of issues and we have found that these ordinances were written years ago in a different time and so the committees come together to look at how can you look at other cities and other ordinances that are more effective potentially and give us authority to take action in a quicker manner as relates to some of these dilapidated homes and and along project updates perspective we also have our motel hotel lodging license program that's also been called a nuisance ordinance that scheduled to come in front of you on december third and i know our prosecuting attorneys have worked really hard on this and we're looking at best practices as well so that we can  have some positive impact on some of the more negative things that are happening in our community as a relates to motels and hotels so that's really early in december you should see that upcoming agenda items we hit you have an urban renewal training on friday august twenty fourth facilitated by downtown colorado i think you've all gotten them attention the bad news is we also have cops that cook on the same day it's a pancake breakfast clements community center seven to ten  so maybe you can do both but you'll be in a hurry that's over like i said that clements and that particular event is fun it's watching our cops cook pancakes and sausages that benefits the lakewood police department a minister courts and e lodge veteran pack program the action center is having an open forum tomorrow evening this is this is a really important conversation to have with the new management at the action center and you've heard that there are some they've they're dealing with some real significant financial problems and issues and this is a chance for you to talk to the new leadership there and to listen to what those issues are what they may be asking all of the cities for i know jefferson county has contributed funding already and also i think you'll want to hear how they plan to make their financing plan sustainable so that so that they can get back on their feet so again that's tomorrow evening august fourteenth seventy eight thirty it's it's called an open forum please if you haven't already but if you don't it's ok to show up anyway and this is over at the action center final be under a special interest information i wanted to tell you about our agent who was in a pretty serious accident agent o'donnell he has  injury or his accident was on the second it was an on duty motorcycle accident and as you know a vehicle turned left right in front of mark and he was on his motorcycle he sustained numerous fractured bones and underwent three different surgeries amounting to about eighteen hours of surgery and there are there's more surgery expected but they're giving him a break now the doctors were delighted as is he and his family that there isn't paralysis even though there was a fracture in his neck so we appreciate your continued thoughts and prayers his spirits are really good and he's hoping to be able to go home i think on friday so our best wishes to agent o'donnell and i'm going to read this one you might have heard this is an amazing amazing breakthrough we had a cold case from one thousand nine hundred eighty four you might have heard about this this is exciting for our police department this is all due to new d n a technology let me read this in one thousand nine hundred four patricia smith was brutally murdered in the one to six that's because of advances in the d n a technology and because lakewood had such good records and we were able to conclusively link the suspect as a same person in both cases so in we were notified that the inmate in nevada matched that d n a profile and between our d n a samples and a rice d n a samples liquids were better and they were able to come up with that match right away so he's been in custody since hundred four but just recently his d n a was added to the bank and now we've obtained a warrant for his arrest and there was a press conference just last week so that's a really good news finally a resolution to a cold case and all b the family members feel really really good and released by that so that's my report thank you very much and again if you have feedback regarding any of the information i shared i'd be happy to take that from you next week thank presentation thank you all right these are the consent agenda has been made to expedite council action it contains both resolutions and first reading ordinances resolutions or items of the routine nature members of the public will have an opportunity in a moment to comment on any of the proposed resolutions first reading ordinances appear on the agenda only for the purpose of setting the public hearing dates and ordering the newspaper publication of the proposed ordinance no public comments will be heard this evening on first reading ordinances the public will have the opportunity to comment on the proposed ordinances during the scheduled public hearings on the date set tonight by the city council any council member may request an item on the consent agenda be removed for separate discussion under general business with the clerk please read the items on the consent agenda into the record the consent agenda consists of item seven through eleven item seven resolution two thousand eight hundred thirty five authorizing an intergovernmental agreement among governmental entities within jefferson county agencies to create the jefferson county collaborative transportation forum jeffco for item eight ordinates zero dash two thousand eight hundred fourteen to rezone land located at twenty eight hundred south rooney road lakewood colorado i am ten a preview minutes of city council meetings city council regular meeting june eleventh two thousand and eighteen item eleven except the minutes of the boards and commissions advisory commission for an inclusive community executive community meeting may second two thousand and eighteen advisory commission for inclusive community executive committee meeting june sixth two thousand and eighteen advisory commission for inclusive community full commission meeting april eighteenth two thousand and eighteen advisory commission for inclusive community full commission meeting may sixteenth two thousand and eighteen and advisory commission for an inclusive community full commission meeting june twentieth two thousand and eighteen thank you very much ms johnson thank you i just had a few questions regarding the intergovernmental agreement is now a good the right time to ask no ma'am let me open up public comment first and then we'll go and ask for a worthwhile idea i do have a couple of questions i believe we do have a representative from our city on dr comic has there been in the voting regarding transportation issues and how has the city voted on those and can we start finding out with the votes are and what we're actually getting involved in and she gave a brief update on this last week yes thank you so we haven't had any votes during this subcommittee yet because this is the this is the creation of the subcommittee our last vote was i believe in december that related to this issue and i gave the update then but it's been a long time so i'll just kind of refresh about what that was in the past we had a  taishan fund allocation process where everything came to the entire board now we're moving to a system that allows for more local control and will have a sub regional committee which is what this committee is is going to be so instead of going to the entire state instead of to the entire dr cogged where'd it will first go to jefferson county and will be able to work together and collaborate on issues and transportation issues that are important to us locally so and i'll continue to provide those updates but we it's sometimes the votes are far between ordinances introduced into first reading to be published in the denver post with public hearing set for the dating clue did in the ordinance and for adoption of resolution all of which are included in the consent to jan items introduced into the record by the city clerk i second that we have a motion second any discussion all right please cast your  so next up will be what was originally item four and that is the tabor discussion and as most of you know council began this some time ago there's been multiple commu discussions as well as a special public comment period last week in our study session so with that if you'd like to speak please get up there and sign well before clerk gets back there and it will be the same three minute rule two and a half green thirty seconds yellow red will go  all this is coming down i should say there's also been a great opportunity i think all the council members have had at least one discussion in their ward meetings as well as electronic opportunities for the community to engage in this  n all right so first i have renee sanders well she's coming down surely you want to you want to speak are you ok that's great shirley natalie keith peggy in ken we'll start with a good evening welcome to the evening city council and mayor paul my name is renee sanders and i have been a homeowner in taxpayer in lakewood for the last thirty two years not only that i am a third generation resident to the lakewood area although when my grandfather had his home built here it was not yet a city  so clearly i have invested in this city and i have long and deep roots here i love this city and i would like very much for the city to reinvest in itself the portion of the city that i live in ward two has some really long neglected needs that i would like to see invested in while we have the income to do so i was told during you know the great recession well obviously we don't have the money to do much of anything but keep our heads above water and we tightened our belts as a city we surely did and then we're in a period of recovery and i would like to see the city reinvest in the south in my ward ward too and we still are begging for sidewalks and street lights i really don't think it's that much ask especially when you know during the thirty two years that i have lived here you know belmar has been built a new hospital has been built and accommodated in sidewalks and provisions have had been given to that and we still in the north east sector of the city are begging for you to please invest in just some of the simple structural needs i'm asking that you put forward before the voters of my city that are i'm a third generation of please put before the voters the question of reinvesting some of our excess taber revenue back in ourselves pay for the next recession hits thank you so much thank you are many people and house district twenty eight that are in favor of tape or please return what is appropriate to the vice voters thank you i brought forward a proposal that many of us have talked about the really does solve the problem that we face with refunding the twelve point five million dollars plus some extra change there to the taxpayers or citizens of lakewood so you all have gotten the document that they supply to you in a couple different forms so that i hope you had sufficient time to look it over and i know some in the audience have not had the chance to do that so i am just going to cover it so maybe for your benefit but a lot because there's a lot of people lined up may not be aware of this plan which yeah yeah that would be that would be great you know other one yeah right so this is a simple way to refund the excess tax revenue and accomplish what the what the community wants and that is remembering that the paper tax refund really does belong to each and every individual who helped to contribute in now we're not going to be able to figure out who contributed down to a penny of what they contributed to taper new that and states to do it in the most reasonable way mouth possible in the past the refund or excess revenues excess collections funded on the stormwater bill which i just got mine the other day the other way was it was credited on property tax in both of those forms it benefited homeowners but it left renters and others outside of that refund mechanism so they had contributed money in but they had not benefited the way that this is structured is that it reaches all of what we would hope as the majority of the residents in lakewood who are registered voters and by doing that there's a couple advantage just first one is we have what could almost be considered a unique identifier i don't want to use word social security number but a voter id number which allows us to identify that person nicely it doesn't risk your privacy like social security would because the voter i d s public information what it will do is take and i already have the spreadsheet like i described a spreadsheet of roughly ninety three thousand and change of voters who here here as of june thirtieth but they also were living in lakewood as of medicare last year because we want to ensure that a brand new voter who moved here is not the one that's going to get a refund i think that sounds fair so i added that we got ninety three thousand and change we've got twelve point five million dollars and change if you take that money and right off the bat just divide it that's getting to you to about one hundred thirty three dollars refund or individual now we do know there are some people in the community that would like to keep the city keep it we just heard one speaker but we know there's a bunch of people that also want their refund back so how do we make everybody happy what we do is we as we said on here set up a website on the city using a database that has a voter id number that somebody is able to log in knowing because they got the public information from the city in looking at lakewood channel eight were to meetings earned media through the newspapers folks we've got a refund coming your way go to the website find your voter id number if you want to city to keep it log in say i want my money to go to the police emily want her money to go to the parks pete want the money to go to the streets everybody gets their choice on whether the city gets to keep it or it gets refunded to the default if they don't answer is it gets refunded to them there will be some other speakers who will follow up on th to i got the information sheet and as a result of that did some thinking on this first of all i live in two creeks my name is keith damron been a resident for over eight years now i support putting it on the ballot my a just a general comment here is i've been opposed to the politicians at the state level that come out and say they love taber they think it's great the citizens get to vote on a tax increase but then they refused ever take any tax increase to the voters they just come up with fees and add those on another we never get a chance to vote and i absolutely believe we should have a chance to vote on tabor and be disappointed if we don't get that  opportunity i was going to comment on the fact that the benefit does benefit property owners as a property owner i benefit either way but i'm an advocate for the money being put call it reinvested in the community i believe that's what it belongs i would be opposed if you were to put it all in one group and i wouldn't i can argue for all three of those group deserving some revenue to be able to do things that are on a long list of staff suggestions but i believe it needs to be split into those three areas in a broad way so that you guys can determine what the city can do with it and in roads and in parks we have to creek park which is very close to my house it's never been developed a mold the weeds i think twice a year and others now that it just sits there it's a park it's never been fixed and i like the idea fixin playground equipment as a burglary victim three months ago cute goes to lakewood p d they captured the bad guy and my wife stolen car and her phone within five hours after the burglary and credit to the police but i think law enforcement does need some money also for resources as they've outlined and i'm certainly in favor of the traffic improvements ice went to a number of meetings on the union corridor when trying to get that stuff done and i know that probably were some of this would end up but i think we need to traffic improvements and i don't see other revenue for that so i think all of those categories are appropriate and need to be dealt with and i would encourage you to do that i guess all this and with that i'll be disappointed if i don't get an opportunity to vote on that situation don't don't be like some of the state officials and say oh yeah we want the voters to vote on taber but nope we refused to take it to the ballot we don't trust the voters to vote so give us an opportunity to vote  i believe it needs to be reinvested but that's just my opinion thank you for your time thank you piggy and it looks like rosie or have a good evening you  my name is  nana and rosie is learning american sign language because she is going deaf and what do you have in your prose i have children's hospital calls that her super ear and one of the things we know about hearing aids through insurance is they're not covered by insurance so it's something that you have to pay for yourself out of pocket and what we are showing here is the day of the hail storm that came last year the twelve and a half million dollars came from that recent hail storm and we were involved in that pretty heavily her school was hit very hard cover the mills mall was hit very hard in addition we've had some increase premiums and deductibles and so it makes it kind of hard for us who have to pay out of pocket for these kind of things for our children to pay for hearing aids and we would really benefit from having our taber money back so we would like to have the taper money back we don't want to go on the ballot we know that the wealthy probably won't notice the money coming back but i know that lower income families certainly will still notice the money coming back for their rent for stormwater fees they'll notice the money coming back for any expenses groceries things like that and for us and children like rosie they'll get their hearing aids paid for so we've really like to have the money back and help families we hope that you guys will use the proposal from save our refunds to give the checks back to registered voters and let them do what they want with it either spend the money on the hearing aids like us or give it back to police or parks or whatever they like so thank you very much thank you rosie thank you that's my name and i think you can and then mike shuman and susie rose meyer might moeller scott cares good evening good evening i'm going to run mine because i have been able stay within three minutes and i think i've said my entire life self policing ok i'm on my name is ken fisher i'm a retired senior police sergeant and city of lakewood it was my pleasure to serve you for right at forty years i'm here tonight to talk about two it aspects of my experience and what is happening presently i started the police job between the time when martin luther king was killed and bobby kennedy was killed in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight i was at the six aqaba convention not in the police service capacity but i saw the worst side of police work at that time i was privileged to come here in one thousand nine hundred seventy three and join the best part of the nation and i think it still is one of the best i hope it remains one of the best it is incumbent on you and you to continue that one way you'll do that is reexamine the benefit package for these police officers they can't talk to you as i talk to you i have no agenda i speak for me these are my friends my extended family they do not have a great benefit package and it's not her fault it's not your fault but something needs to be done one of the things that needs to be done is taber needs to come back to the city to use for their benefit specifically in the aspect of a disability what my friend mark o'donnell will get should he be disabled and there's a very strong possibility he will we hope he makes it he's a tough kid he's a very dedicated officer but he is busted up and should he have to go to disability he gets sixty percent yes to pay his own insurance from the date but a year from now when he separated from service that has to be looked at that has to be changed in addition to a number of the other things that occur in the department they're not getting the personnel they got when i came when i came and interviewed in chicago they took twenty of us out of a pool of about a thousand college graduates i was privileged to be one of them they must have made a mistake i think the polygraph must have blown up or something but i was privileged to come here with a great group of people who worked for many years with a great group of people the benefits were good but they could be a lot better now at a board meeting last week someone made a point of the one percent over that's a salary aspect that's one aspect many other departments have better retirement plans they have better we have a pretty good medical plan pretty good been dental plan and a fairly good retirement plan but the disability plan is very poor when you've only got two people going for sergeant out of a potential pool of seventy five you've got a problem and that's what's happening across the street then cassie's great chief good friend of mine doing a good job kathy's doing a good job for my money long but while back about fifteen years ago a discussion with mr mike rock groups you still have one minute fifty eight seconds i got to get a better phone when i had this discussion with mike rock some which couldn't be repeated in public circumstance i said mr rock we need a better disability plan he said no and that was the end of that discussion i had our chief at the time try to approach him he did run burns the great guy he made the run for it he said i can't get it done so i made this point to mr rock and i'll make it to you and i'm going to maybe step on some toes here for forty three years i've got a business in the city i drive one or a two ton log truck and i lumberjack that's one of the two toughest jobs there is in place works the other one you can take someone from the behind the wheel of squad car and put him behind the wheel of a log truck but you can't take someone from behind the wheel of a log truck and put him behind the wheel of a police car that is so intense and so different than when i started it's amazing it's monumental i was present when the d n a was gathered from patricia smith's body i happen to be the beat car that was working that call and we knew we were on really early ground there was very happy to see that case resolved it's one of the two that i can now rest of the other one is resolved but you need to take a long look at their benefit package and hopefully that taber money will come back and provide some help i'm done thank you very much  created anguish for many lakewood citizens some people are still paying off their credit cards for the deductibles they had to pay on our insurance has greatly increased also you're now spending the taxpayer money to promote keeping the people's money and on a survey they can easily easily be completed by one person one hundred times if they want to do it this survey also manipulates people into giving you the answers that you want if you would have had if you would have refunded the people's money and not promoted keeping it and now possibly adding the expense of an election you would have more than paid for the expense of refunding the money to the people already to most if not all the people in this room one hundred thirty three one hundred thirty five dollars may not be all that significant but for many people and families that are not in this room and are not represented this money could have a big impact i've heard it mentioned to return the people's money through property taxes through stormwater and now through the voter registration i think refunding the money through the voter registration is a fair and reasonable idea yeah it does not exclude winners or give multiple refunds to the same person because they own local properties the people that need the money keep their money and the people who feel it's in significant can allow the city to keep it and use it on their projects they choose like open space please don't spend any more taxpayer money on an election and let the people decide individually if they want to receive the refund or donate it to the city through the website thank you thank you susie rose good evening i'm susie rose my honor i've been a lakewood resident for forty seven years i attended carmody when it was a junior high and i graduated from bear creek when it was still in morrison so i've been around for a while tabor was passed as you know back in one thousand nine hundred two so that's twenty six years ago and i feel that the times in ninety two versus the time in twenty eighteen we've seen tremendous change in both the city a lakewood and in our economy things have changed very much we know we have a lot of needs in the community i read on next door people complaining about slow response times from the police department for some minor instances and i know believe that's the fault of the police department i believe that's the fault  funding stream for the police department you can't respond if you don't have a body to do the responding we need to hire more police officers we need more support for those officers that only comes from  dollars i used to live in ward two my first single family home was in ward two we didn't have sidewalks then they don't have sidewalks now they need some sidewalks up there there's no place for the kids to walk to stein elementary to walk over to bill maher it's not safe for the children there and i the other thing that i would really like to see improved with an additional  revenue are bike path systems i think lakewood has done a good job of getting bike pez organized and set out in the city but we don't have very many east west routes for bike paths in the city and we don't have any protected bike lanes there are cities all over the world that are too in protected bike lanes that make biking safer both the biker and for the people tribe in the cars and we need to look at some innovative ways to make biking safer for the folks in lakewood i would really encourage you since the voters were the ones who approved taber to begin with let the voters decide whether or not we want to do something different with tabor in the year two thousand and eighteen whether that be a break from tabor for just maybe this one time or total de bruising which many cities have done all over the state i am sympathetic to those people who need that extra funding for medical expenses and for home repairs after the hail storm i wish that we could use a voter system a voter registration system to make it fair i see a big problem with that in that there are many people that i know personally who are confidential voters they're confidential voters and they have a legal right to be for various reasons either their domestic violence victims they don't want their registration information public or they reacted to our secretary of state sending our voter registration information off to washington last year and decided to be confidential voters so you're not going to capture all of the registered voters in the city you're going to miss people so i don't know how you get around that and i guess philosophically for me i just i have a problem with saying well i'll send my many to the police department but i don't want to support bike lanes i i feel like we're a community and we've elected you to represent us and we'd like for you to make those decisions about where it's best spent so i would just encourage you to please give us a choice on the valve on the ballot in the fall  excess right now and the four hundred dollars that people want their money back i see you hear that people coming up here saying golly i want your money i'm saying oh it's my money why why why should i give you my money if it does make any sense some people want to for side what some people want for a park some people want it it's no it's my money you overcharge me i want my money back it's that simple you know if i want to give you the money i'll give you the money but i want my money back now the other thing i have this survey that i've was looking at it's a very interesting thing i wonder what the age brackets are on those surveys are the youth voters are they getting are they putting in comments are they seniors putting in comments or is it people that are very tech savvy that are putting in all the comments and put in as many comments as they want from their office from their house whatever they want to do i don't think it's fair so i don't think the survey should be here but to say that to just put a thing on this is that the city has thirty million dollars thirty million dollars all i want is my four hundred dollars that's all and you begrudge me my four hundred dollars so i can send it to a treatment center golly you guys are really greedy you can't live without my four hundred bucks allen ross scott and linda good evening low scott curves guard seven fifty deli street first thank you all for your patience putting up with all of us week after week i mean  big job so thank you for that paper is absolutely brilliant in that it gives tax paper payers choice and consent and it says if it's not working we can vote again it's right there in tabor i'm not asking you to change paper it says we can vote again paper was passed in one thousand nine hundred two on one day one day twenty six years ago if you look at the voter rolls in lakewood in one thousand nine hundred two and compared to the voter rolls today i'm guessing no more than twenty percent of the people who voted in ninety two are still lakewood voters i'd like a chance to vote on taber i think the people of lakewood a chance to vote on taber democracy practically demands we vote on paper it's been twenty six years and it says right in paper we can vote on it our needs changes our community our needs change as taxpayers and its citizens and we should have a chance to vote on it every once in a while we shouldn't have to live with what people decided twenty six years ago most of those people are gone from lakewood now let's vote again our police need the support our kids need the support we need better bike paths thank you  jim everybody so i'm kim the other ten so at last week's meeting i spoke here for many of the working families here in lakewood who are typically under represented when decisions like this are made we the working families are the foundation of the consumer class we are the true economic drivers of any capitalist economy because we spend nearly our entire incomes within a five mile radius of our homes here in lakewood we are the who have to rent because our incomes are too low to afford or even qualify for a mortgage and we are the families who voted for the three percent sales tax increase with the promise that it would be reinvested in our community even as we watched before that and since then tabor limit the use of our tax dollars while refunds go only to our property owning landlords and neighbors we are commuters to work to schools and drive heavily only quit streets where parents who take a break from the daily grind to bring our kids to parks that have been steadily deteriorating for years we are the families whose safety suffers when our police force is unable to unable to answer calls quickly when they have outdated equipment and when they are not trained in community policing and effective deescalation now there are three vital decisions being made in the council chambers today one do we put on the ballot to does it sunset or do we continue in perpetuity and three how do we distribute the retained funds if voters pass it in november so we're going to talk it through first do we put deep bruising on the ballot to me total no brainer you all know after months and months of research and discussion that this does nothing to hamper our ability to vote on future tax increases and any discussion to the contrary is nothing but a distraction taber intended for voters and taxpayers to be able to have a voice on the collection and distribution of their tax dollars and that is simply what we are asking give  lakewood voters the opportunity to voice their opinion i'm not asking you to vote yes or no in november i'm just asking you to give me the ability to vote yes or no in november now the second question is do we let it sunset ideally no honestly i don't think anybody in here wants to go through this again but that being said a fifteen year sunset sounds reasonable that gives us enough time to make mark to indiscernible improvements in our community then loop back to voters and ask them if they agree and if they don't then they can take it back again in the spirit of tabor so the third question is how do we allocate the funds should voters approve the man this an incredibly important question because reinvesting our funds into the growth of the city is vital especially as we grow in population if we have a budget that only lets us operated a bare minimum of services we will never ever attract the kind of businesses and workers who make communities across colorado great our need for city services is only going to grow we're only going to have more families move here wanting safe parks safe roads and a police force that they can trust to be well staffed and well trained so we need to invest equally in those roads those parks and in our public safety so please consider not only the intention of taber but also consider the impact the keeping it off the ballot would have for people like me people who love our community who love our neighbors and who simply only want to see the tax dollars we've already paid reinvested into our community creating a lakewood we can be proud of and just real quickly as far as using voter registration there are huge swaths of our low socio economic community who are disenfranchised by our voting laws you would cut out a q j swath of ward three where i live which has a high high population of african and latin next immigrants who are not legally allowed to vote but who still spend plenty of their money here in lakewood so thank you thank you but anyway many ms rick actually live in ward three and i'm also one of the newest members of the a c c and order to be as effective a member of the sea as i can be tried to get to as many of the local ward meetings as i  can and i've been to all all of all of them at least once and it should come as no surprise to you that the number one topic is taber the way tabor's waiting right now it says that any surplus meaning the twelve and a half million dollars that we have right now has to go back to the citizens and right now we don't have a way to do that that money has to go back to not only property owners but to everybody else also because they contribute is part of that money and i would urge there are a lot of intelligent people known only sitting on council but on staff and i strongly urge you to find a way to be able to refund that money to the people that it's supposed to go to when i think of all the time that u council members have had to discuss this not only amongst yourselves but in your ward meetings there are a lot of other things that you could be talking about and working on and this is an issue that's going to keep coming back over and over again because of the way taber written i would would hope that you would make it a very strong priority to find a way to get the money back to the people because after all it's our money the other to popular topic at ward meanings is should there be a ballot measure to vote on whether or not the city should reinvest the money and it wasn't until i attended the ward four meeting this past saturday where i heard councilman skilling present specific language on how that money could in would be spent and whether or not you use councilman skilling's and i commend you for that sir by the way because he is the first person who's ever spent mention specific verbiage but if there's going to be a ballot measure for citizens to vote on it has to be very specific right down to the letter as to how the money is going to be spent as i can tell you skeptics who are against it going on the ballot are skeptics because they don't know how you're going to spend the money so if there's going to be a ballot measure it has to be very specific as to how exactly you're going to spend that money with no if fans or buts and wiggle room to change your mind after it's approved if it's approved so  those are my thoughts on the subject and thank you very much for here thank you brenda and mary i kind of reworking my comment because it looks like you're not going to be refining it through property to property tax to property owners to home to homeowners and business owners  know i don't know whether to get my comment or go off and the snicker and ok let's see i sent you all an e mail right bright as i was coming here but  needs to happen i propose you consider a ten year moratorium on tape or funds on the ballot so we don't have to go through this every year that we have a good year and have a surplus taxes well what i had never seen or heard of i thought that the way you were going to refund it was property taxes sorry of a huge argument about how unfair that is and i think i don't think i have to say that i think i think i think you got the point why somebody wrote up another way to refund it but sales taxes already unfairly target poor people they spend all their money if they can afford a car they're going to spend it totally that way so so it needs to go back to them i did have a sort wouldn't it i don't know you collect a surplus it's kind of a stupid thing to do is collect money that people willingly give you as part of buying something and then you have to give it back and you don't know who they are so that's that's a weird conundrum that taber created and and that's why i favor giving the money to let you guys decide how to spend it and i agree with the last person  identify i thought the ways that were identified in the survey were all good ways to spend it on the police department sidewalks infrastructure projects things that benefit everybody in the community is a good way to spend it but it does need to be on the ballot paper allowance that you'd be deficient in your duties if you didn't do that and so put it on the ballot i i think i would love you to go above and beyond the minimum which is put it on the ballot for a ten or fifteen years let the citizens vote you'd have to you have to make a strong case of that how you're going to spend a dispenser than one hundred twenty or thirty five dollars that would go in their pocket but i don't like i don't like this thing that i just saw tonight as a way to refund it you guys were elected by fifty one percent of the vote or more you were elected because we got to choose between forty nine percent of the health of person and fifty one percent are you and you are your vote  you're our city council and you you decide what is wise to ways to benefit the whole community and make it a better place to live that's your job it isn't us to say all i want one hundred thirty five dollars if you spend it on the police department that's a stupid way to do a refund in my opinion even though this was much better than refunding it totally to property owners that evening so the city is asking to keep our taber refund again the city's largest since income stream is from sales tax and the sales tax from colorado mills and denver west is already exempt in p etuity from taber and since sales tax is usually reduced to offset in other revenue generating areas of the city a portion of what could be revenue for the city has been gifted to developers in the form of pits providing public safety needs such as police staff and police equipment and infrastructure needs should be part of a responsibility of responsibility managing a city and not part of a tape or ballot measure if city staff can't measure the city can't manage the city's public safety and infrastructure needs with existing funds in addition to the large current reserve fund perhaps we have a larger problem is it due to poor economic strategy planning for example developing the city to accommodate more people which come with the cost burden instead of developing for revenue and jobs or is it mismanagement of priorities let's find out and let's fix those problems i like natalie menton solution to the issue cindy refund checks to lakewood taxpayers and allowing them to either keep the refund or donate it back to the city for their wish list if you decide to take this to the ballot please do not allow the city to use our taxpayer money to fund propaganda regarding the ballot measure thank you well my comments are no longer appropriate dismal picture has been painted of our city we just had our annual picnic and our our councilor johnson and abel and our mayor mayor paul came to our park our park is a beautiful park and we wanted to have a ribbon cutting for our newly refurnished tennis courts they're beautiful we have a beautiful park remember who wanted to put to work park but it's a beautiful park we you people have done a fine job managing our finances and making our city beautiful we've had lots of retirements from our police force how many police officers have we hired what twenty some maybe we've hired twenty some new police officers our parks are gorgeous our city is doing wonderful i'm almost sitting there this isn't what i was going to talk about but imo sitting there resenting what people are saying about our city and how you've managed i'm sorry but i'm upset now i think it is wonderful and i think you've done a great job we have all this money in reserves and you don't spend it willy nilly you don't say oh we need sidewalks everywhere well in my neighborhood it's rural we don't want sidewalks we have some street lights and we're fine we don't need that there's a lot of us that that don't use spend our money wisely the taylor property oh my gosh look at the open space that we've added to our city just this year i commend you for the financial responsibility and for how beautiful our city is and i really am i'm resenting what people are saying and if you're going to have to market this as oh well as us we need the money now i don't know where i stood when i kind of walked up here about tabor but now i know where i stand we have a wonderful city and i i love what you guys have done with it the other thing i did want to mention i hadn't seen the proposal that came forward tonight sending out checks one thing i had heard and i had mentioned at a different meeting was that you would also have the administrative burden of sending out ten ninety nine forms after the fact that is not correct it's a ten ninety nine for government payments and this is not  remember a few years ago when you got your state excuse me taber refund when you got your ten one hundred ninety the next year to do your next year's taxes because of course that's what i do that portion was specifically excluded from your ten ninety nine that is not to ninety nine to i r s is says that's only for state and local income taxes which this is not a refund of but i don't help kudos to you because i good evening again i'm still helen heald word for i have two comments on the subject to taper refunds first thank you mayor paul for clarifying last monday that the priority projects a dinner fide earlier this summer by mr door whilst will still be considered priority product priority projects and could likely get done at some point but they d tapering would simply move up the timeline on some of these things i really appreciate that clarification i was a little confused about it second i might be supportive on a limited diversion of funds refines if it is your mark to accomplish say a major open space purchase or something of that nature that w truly be a long term benefit to all of the people of lakewood i know several councillors feel that way as well and so i think that it's really important to have a long term approach to something that would be beneficial  but i ask everyone to consider this point if the city diverts the public's twenty seventeen tyra dollars twelve million roughly for example to advance routine projects on the timeline that bothers me the net effect of this is to take twelve million dollars out of the lakewood local economy and less all of the contractors and their employees and sub contractors are also like wood residents you give you take money away from like wood and you give it to contractors you've sucked that money out of the city  whether the refund is eighty dollars a person or three hundred dollars a person if it comes to the people in lakewood it will be added back into the economy of lakewood as people spend it we all know this is common sense the amounts are normally small enough that they would most likely you know be spent locally and we would all benefit there are businesses would so please consider the impact on local spending as you deliberate on the proposed refund issue and lastly from listening to residents just tonight on how routine work like sidewalks has gone and done for years and years and listening to offer fisher regarding the needs of the police department for appropriate and better benefits these things to me beg for long term budget solutions not a band aid from a taber refund so i ask that council really consider the long term nature of these problems and in particular with the budget coming up this fall please turn over a new page and start doing the right thing to take better care or infrastructure in better care of our police force the police take care of us all of us every day and it's time to heed their call for better benefits on a long term basis thank you ross and place asphalt recycling and the i do dumb sense of information on that and that actually has the potential to save approximately forty percent on long term asphalt pavement pavement mean and costs which is pretty amazing and i'm so that's the first idea on the second one that i was able to come up with is a four day workweek westminster is currently doing that  that's not quite as big a savings as the first idea but it is a approximately ten ten to fifteen percent savings on utility bills and up but a two to three percent savings on city fuel costs obviously the commuters would save twenty percent so that would be a huge savings for the employees so that there is definitely some potential there there with the four day work week there are some people that some people love it because the basically a city would be open longer so it gives them a longer time period to come in but they would have to pick one day a week that would be closed at westminster  friday for that so sometimes it takes people a little bit of time to get used to that or that sort of them such that there is a slight disadvantage on that but the savings are significant for sure  well couple of brief things on taber i have i like tabor and there's three main reasons for that one is if you look at this which most states don't have anything like tabor like c won the lottery and then you've got kansas with the governor brownback who cut taxes a lot that he didn't cut spending that caused caused a big imbalance and you're seeing that with a lot of states huge problem colorado doesn't have that problem and very few other communities and colorado have that problem either so that's that's a huge benefit in the governments in colorado tend to be more efficient in a lot of other places as well so you don't don't see as many wasteful spending projects going on there still some but it's a lot less frequent so that's another big advantage and then the third one is they caught me and car auto is one of the nation's best economies i mean there's no question our our unemployment rate is significantly lower than the national average and has been for a long time so i like taber it's not perfect but i think it's way better than not having it so if anybody has any questions i'd be happy to answer anything thank you and thanks for your e mail scott and then linda good evening council mayor i'm a thirty seven you're retired worker from word three so i urge you to not d bruce i could i could use a little extra bucks but i won't repeat a lot of stuff that's been brought up tonight but i have some experience in this i was on the finance committee in the legislature and if the council designates this is a sales tax refund you don't have ten nineteen nine issued you know in two thousand and fifteen didn't have any on the state refund we didn't have any of the  good evening good evening mr mayor and council tabor properly assumes that the monies that government entities play with belongs to individual citizens property also i respectfully ask you to consider every time you vote to spend my money does your action expand and grow government and increase governmental control on my life or will your actions limit government and increase my personal freedom i am hoping for the latter thank you i think you are right  exhaust the roster on the fake you all for your thoughtful public comment and your engagement in the process so as council begins our discussion have a little bit of an outline that might guide the discussion so i think first and foremost it's a yes or no question if this is something that wants to go to the ballot if that's a no question then our conversation is done and will be home here in about fifteen minutes if it is a yes then and this is a culmination of things that i've heard some that i've seen in this is not an all expansive list so if the answer is yes then there's a question about the first year return a twelve point five to all one project to differ areas to three different areas to four different areas so that's a thing that we can go through ongoing discussion would be parks what would it look like in the years after the twelve point five so would all go to one fifty fifty a third a third a third for ways or anything else and then the last question would be how long and that would be dealing with no sense of her twelve years ten years eight years five years so that's the framework that i was hoping that we could start to begin with and i think we need to just handle that first question and that would be just yes or no do you want to continue talking about putting it is me me here i have a question yes ma'am actually it's i said i spoke wrong i not a question i would like to move that we return the excess tax fund as identified by taper to the people  the only discussion should be how do we refund it and there is no community consensus on how to spend the money lakewood has deep roots for other times and th same year that we increase sales taxes the same year that referendum c was actually passed and it put tabor on hold for five years mr johnson let's go with your motion and if you want to add to that then we can go to the i'll second that so we have a motion in a second to just refund the refund the money there's a motion second is there discussion and if you want to clear out i have a bunch of different things here so if you want to speak to this motion i will go bita use me thank you mary i would and i am in support of this motion and i've given this a lot of thought in the last few months and i think that it is time for us to put this issue to bed i've listened to both sides i have been the word meanings throughout our city not just my own and i i think that one of the things we have to do is go back and look at what taber is all about what it says what it's all about and the people of this state that law into a fact twenty six years ago but it's not just a law it's a constitutional amendment it's in case than enshrined in the constitution of the state of colorado and the people voted on it then and said this is what we want  any excess revenues is to go back to the people period end that's that's the law that's the law that we're dealing with right now now yes it also provides that the we can come back to the people and ask for their permission to as a city as a as a government to keep that money and that's really where we're at here and i want to remind you that there's not been a large citizen initiative here that has a risen this is not been a citizen outcry for detail like what there's been no such thing what has happened is that it came up last spring a few months ago when our audits were completed that we have twelve and a half million dollars in excess revenue that point the discussion became began what should we do with that twelve and a half million  d other than the discussions that we hear occasionally about suddenly our city and i agree i'm almost shocked at some of the things i keep hearing tonight and in the past about how suddenly when  table our city is horribly managed we've got all these problems but i never hear about anything before that and i go to the ward means i've been going toward meetings for five years my word through we have toward meetings every month i haven't heard any of this i haven't heard any problems with our police department everybody's happy with the police department from where i've sat everybody is happy with how our city has been managed and from where i sit our city's pretty darn well managed and i'm not taking the credit for that i'm talking about our staff our city manager our finance director they do a wonderful job in my opinion who with financing and managing them the money in this city is a perfect you know there's always room for  improvement and as i pointed out i mean we just spent seven million dollars on on the taylor property which is when when you get to see that you're going to knock your socks off when you see a chance to go on their property and see what we bought the citizens of this state so i think we're the idea of tabor is to is is if we really if you need the money does the city need the money we don't need the money we've got lots of money in reserve the city's running well we don't need the money we shouldn't even be asking the citizens for this money ok and i'm just i'm totally in favor of saying that giving it back to the to our taxpayers that's what the law says and i see no good reason i've see no good reason in the last six months not in the last five years to do anything different than that if the citizens want to start their own initiative and bring this to to council and say we wan changes tabor law if you want to do that by going i'd be all in support of that but that hasn't happened there hasn't been any groundswell the only reason this is even up is because there's twelve and a half million that we're trying to figure out what to do with so i support the motion and i would support and as far as determining how to refund it there's ways there quit the motion please there's several ways well the refund goes is handily but let's stick with the motion are you so i'm well i'm in favor of the motion and i'm what i would say is we can address the issues of the refund at a later time that's all i wan yes i don't support this motion i want to see it go to the voters at least the people i've talked to have been very loud and clear that they want at least an opportunity to vote on this if it's voted down then we figure out how to refund the money so i will not be well as what councillor vincent expressed i've heard those sentiments two things that were just stated was we talked about the groundswell and that the things that we hear in our community and i hear number one issue as we all he is the population moving in the density going up the everyone feeling cramps quality of life changing and then counselor beat also mentioned taylor and taylor is a gem and i want to do that again and again and again more taylor's as many taylor's as i can possibly get my hands on the only way i can do that though is by asking the people if you agree with me i want to use at least that twelve and a half million to say let's buy open space and then in perpetuity not in perpetuity for the next however many years of think a lot of people agree on a sunset but let's ask do you agree with doing certain things that's what this discussion should be about and maybe i can convince councillor johnson that maybe there are some good uses that we let the people decide on so i actually agree with with mr beater's points i just get to the maybe the opposite conclusion because as i think i've heard that groundswell and i think i agree with your point on taylor and i just want to see more of it so to that i would not support the motion thank you you know one of the things that i really saw several years ago is how strong the population in the citizens are within the city of lakewood we had an opportunity many years ago to make the decision whether or not we wanted recreational marijuana in the city even though the state had said yes we could have it and this citizen ri came back and said no we don't want that in the city of l a quit that tells me that our citizens are pretty darn strong they will be very quick to tell us what they do and what they don't want i really believe that this is really important for us to take it back to the citizens it is a twenty six year old vote that was passed a while ago i don't know what the outcome's going to be but one thing i am really convinced of is that we had one can constituent say the seating that they weren't here when that vote was passed originally shouldn't we give the current residents of the city of lake with the opportunity to speak about this this is a really important piece of legislation that we need to get their input on whether it goes or it doesn't go but we need it needs to go to ballot thank you your motion thank you for those of all of us up here this is a no win vote we're going to make friends and we're going to make enemies however any of us folks i have spent hours on this looking at the the bad in the ugly of taber and frankly there are valid arguments on both sides but to my motion the good with tabor is that it was voted on by the voters in ninety two  the voters took control we are still trying to understand the application and actually and interpret the language the voters felt they needed to say in tax hikes i get that basically it was a throwback to taxation without representation kind of like the boston tea party if you will and it says the tax hikes must be voted on by the voters that's good maybe d bruising should be initiated by the people as well each municipality can go to the ballot and overturned paper these are all good things about tabor it promotes fiscal  governments growth in check taber only controls revenues not spending but by controlling how much money a city can keep it basically controls the spending now the bad things about to aber it's not totally good it costs voters to petition for a petition process to go to the valid to reverse taber all four times lakewood has be bruised it has been initiated from the from the city and frankly i question if this is a conflict of interest the ratchet effect i get it that doesn't work so good it resets the base when the economy goes down probably just at a time when a city needs to provide more services probably to seniors i absolutely support repealing the ratchet effect in lakewood speaking of seniors the number of seniors is increasing in lakewood which means number one our housing mix will change and that will dampen housing values and property tax base that's bad for the seniors because their retirement is tied up in the equity of their home number two with more seniors there will be a change in income in spending patterns which will dampen growth for income and sales tax base as well and the last seniors demand more government services they will cost us all more to help them and then the ugly this is an extremely divisive issue it's to vise of in our community it's divided along political ideology which divides folks even more there is no fair way to refund historically it's been done through property taxes or stormwater fees i'm not sure if more expensive homes actually receive more of a refund i don't know how that works four times that we've do bruise initiated by the city and in many ways this is a conflict of interest in increases government jobs and services the city voted in two thousand and five to increase sales tax the very same year that referendum c passed and taper was put on hold at that time for five six years so not only do we increase our sales tax we got to double income because of referendum c the very same year taber refunds are an unsteady funding stream that's extremely important to understand this share we could have twelve and a half million none of us know what's going to go on at the national scene next year we might not have any refund so mentioning money for new police agents are frankly to do police pensions and disabilit should not be carted part of that discussion it's an unsteady funding stream those are things that we need to handle prior in our regular budget process the budget not it committee met  on february twelfth in our retreat was february seventeenth originate from that committee and those members i don't know although initiated by counsel at the retreat the minutes do not say who brought it forward for discussion and of course there are actually wasn't votes associated with taking this forward it's vague language on the minutes where retreat the city states that the money spent on do d bruce campaign is basically no bull that to me seems kind of odd some cities have not permanently de proust longmont loveland littleton colorado springs and coretta springs has a red that is a regular rather large city with many needs  told then at that meeting that there would be an eight million dollar refund actually in the end it was really four million five hundred seventy five and as stated earlier revenue from the mills mall is down that's true but is exempt there saw the money that this receipt he receives from the mills mall is basically icing on the cake the mills mall may never give us the same amount of sales tax it did before the hail storm i keep hearing we need to live within our budget that's a fair statement liquid has actually twenty million plus in reserves after keeping our mandated state floor bellmawr will lose its piff status and twenty twenty five twenty six that's ten years from now and when it comes online we can assume that there will be large amounts of sales tax the certificates of deposit for city hall will be paid off in one and a half years so less money will be leaving arced our city coffers the tear one asked for eleven officers if the city keeps taber refund the money should not go towards salaries for new hires where there is still an ongoing need it is an unsteady funding stream again if money is used for open space and park land where is the park land in the open space we're losing that particularly in ward one and who's going to decide who's going to sit on that committee to say where that money's going to go also there's a let's keep to the in the last fourteen years from two thousand and four until now the state budget has doubled i do not believe our population has some projects cited dealt with trad spur taishan in the tears to one into two that we were given but from what i can see there see dot projects like the six in wadsworth interchange if we do you bruce and the state initiatives that are dealing with transportation do not pass what happens to the money that we have very marked for those projects does lakewood pay a portion to the state for those projects and again there's no public consensus on how the refund should be spent the dialogue has really just beginning in earnest taber is not ready to go to the ballot thank you and i have heard from our constituents that they want us to spend money on no space or you have a unique opportunity in front of us the money's there been some remarks about initiative from the community a lot of people up here seem to party closer there are a lot of folks up here seem to  there's a lot of money out there a lot of things we can do with it we will get to that part of discussion shortly but rarely do we get a chance to provide our police fro could provide with this kind of money but it is up to the community to decide whether they want the money back or whether we keep if we give it back we need to find a better way than just by making the rich richer so our formula for returning it needs to change but we need to put this on the ballot thank you so  roots and that'll fix that i think it's important for leaders to lead and this photo happened when i was about five years old so i'd certainly like to take a take a second look at it and they don't want to make anybody feel anything if there is a tabor operates on is that citizens wanted more democratic control over the tax issue i think this ballot proposition suggests those citizens should exercise their rights and they should weigh in on this issue so i would oppose the motion is truly no way to know what the citizens have to say about this issue until we have a vote on it and so i would certainly like to see that happen thanks  first speak to the issue about this being something that was just recently brought up i'm not sure how many others on council but this isn't new to me this isn't something that just sprang up  probably more than two years ago it was brought up and the person at the time was considering basically getting out and walking door to door and gathering signatures and doing that whole process i think they reason they reached out to me is they knew that my community had done that kind of work and it's not cheap it is extremely time consuming and there are still ways to do rail those efforts after you've put that kind of effort in so i did want to make sure that i don't know if anyone else on council but this wasn't something that was relatively new to me the other thing that happens with that is you have folks who kind of monitor these things when the citizens do try to take their you know right to the ballot and they see like with the strategic growth initiative that one is right now hung up in the court system and if we don't stay too late i'll give an update on that otherwise i'll get that later but that gives people pause that they may not really have a way to the ballot so i know that a few people who thought they might want to circulate this pulled back from that thinking that they were going to be able to raise those kinds of funds i think the other important thing to note is that the communities are changing even changing from the time i campaign so that's why it is him so important to councillor skilling and i that we get out into our community we talk to people we asked to be invited to choice we have our meeting we do our surveys because we're desperately trying to be the best representatives we can and that's not easy y'all are a very diverse group of people with a lot of ideas about how a city runs but we signed up for this we said we would represent and so we have difficult discussions in our community we have complex and deep discussions and what's come away from that from all the discussions and all of the outreach is this about a roughly sixty forty split and that's not enough for me to say that i don't want to put something on the ballot it's not definitive enough for me to say that i think i can make a decision for all roughly thirty five thousand people that i represent so i think that's telling as well i also want to talk to i agree that i don't want to do things if we put this on the ballot i want to put it on there for things that are not dependent on a steady stream because this may not be a steady stream but yet we could have other you know ups and downs so i do think it's an unsteady stream and i'm personally not comfortable with in any way making our police agents ever feel like there needs to be some special allocation if they need gear i think the council wants to talk about that if they need something that we're not providing i think those discussions need to happen within the budget discussion those things for me are i can't even fathom they protect me i want to make sure that we're doing the right thing by them alternately i signed up to be a representative and my pulse on the community is they want it to be on the ballot they want a voice and then once we hear what the voice then we determine if it's a no then we determine the refund mechanism but i certainly want to give folks the chance at the ballot where pro tem  mary you know this debate it's been going on for years and i've heard both sides i've looked at both sides i've researched both sides and obviously a lot of good points some of the things that i looked at in our neighborhoods that i listen to the people have said look we're just coming out of a recession two thousand and thirteen we're now coming out of recession maybe and what the high density build up and the cost of housing going through the roof and groceries going up and services are starting to be increase like doubling the stormwater fee rufin fees when we had to hail storm i heard you loud and clear my deductible was twenty five hundred dollars and i had to pay for it out of my pocket  and that's not you know it just it it hurt it's a big crunch i also looked at families and i chit chat it with families and i talk to families families that have two three four kids that go to school and the difference between eating for these kids to eat at night seniors you know they either have to make a choice to either eat or buy medicine you don't want to put them in that position now i don't know what the refunds going to be but let's just say it's one hundred thirty two hundred fifty dollars could be four hundred dollars i don't know but i will tell you this much that hundred thirty dollars sure does go a long way to buy some medicine or to buy extra formula for the kids and i've heard them loud and clear they had they know how to spend the  money and just give them an opportunity give them back their money and it's like going to a grocery store just imagine this if you go to a grocery store you have twenty dollars you go to the grocery store and then all sudden your bill is seventeen dollars and you give them a twenty dollar bill now just imagine you get three dollars back you have a little tip jar if you want to give them a tip that's fine you know but that's your choice but just imagine if you took that twenty dollars  gave it to him and the grocery store says well thank you we'll talk to you later here's your groceries i would choose scream and yell that you want to germany back you know you'd probably call the police and say i want my three dollars he'll first just want to address a couple of things that came up number one just want to clarify that this was not initiated by the city this is initiated by council and there's a really significant and important difference between those two we are representatives of the community and so we are the body that initiated this and will ultimately vote on it secondly i i hear a lot about this argument about the unsteady funding source because it's sales tax revenue but at the end of the day the majority of all of our revenue is sales tax so all of our revenue is subject to changes during the economy it's going to fluctuate  that's why it's so important that we are fiscally responsible conservative in our budgeting which we have successfully done and have a strong track record for doing so counselor kind of stole my thunder at this but i was eight little older then jacob in one thousand nine hundred two and this past a lot has changed in that time i am now a mother i've had a career i have children who i am planning for their future and i'm now a leader in our community and looking at the needs in our community and i i would like a chance to to vote on this personally  sorry and and i know that you know i i represent about a one third of the population is about my age and they also didn't get a chance to vote on this  so to me we talk about lack of taxation without representation but to me what we're facing now is a lack of investment without representation are we as we look to what kind of city we want to be i want to see those parks and and i want to see live in a safe community for my kids and i want to see the sidewalks and the streets and and all of that stuff and i don't think it would be fair to take that chance away from our community  and take away their chance to vote all of that said i do represent a varied community and not everyone in ward five agrees with me of course and this is the absolute best possible way to give everyone in ward five everyone in the city a chance to weigh in and decide for them whether they'd like to see us invest it or to refund it at the end of the day in our ward meetings we had a huge majority of people that came to our meetings want to see this go to the ballot the survey results which i realize are not statistically valid but are still representative and and i personally don't think that our community is a bunch of cheaters taking the the quiz a bunch of times so i think that you know we saw a majority of people wanting to see the chance to vote there that's what i've been hearing and i will not support this measure and i i trust the president's make this decision i just want to add real quick that the committee took a look at a lot of different options and so i just want to reiterate that i think the groundswell is when you knock on doors and you talk to residents and they say i want to sidewalk i want a community i want beautification i want economic development i want jobs you know we hear all those things and you say well ok let me go let me go look into this i mean look at how i can get that for you let me let me try to make this a better place and we already we love lakeway we know it's a great community but but you know we're trying to make it better we're trying to enhance this community and i think the committee in the budget committee took a look at it we looked at c o p's we looked at bonds we looked at tax increases we looked at these goals may have one hundred million dollars worth of unfunded sidewalk projects how can you get there and and by the way don't forget that lakewood voted to support a four hundred million dollars stadium to be built for the broncos so you know you know if there's oh if there's a will there's a way so after looking at all those different options this was the most democratic option it presented to the citizens of this option didn't raise taxes not at that didn't raise any tax rates and it also doesn't take on any debt so this is one of the the best worst options you can have so and that's just how taxes work so i just wanted to reiterate all that and let you know how this sort of became the direction is because there was a need and this is one of the best ways to fill it so thanks it's all right so i certainly appreciate everybody's comments i started out this year with a call to the commute to be bold and i said when you start talking about municipal financing it's never going to be popular no matter what you do whether it's bonding whether it's taber but we're in an opportunity where we need to look at our forefathers left us over the last fifty years of our city and see what we're going to repay the next fifty years we are in a boom we don't have a spending problem my intent is never to scare the community that if this doesn't pass we're shutting down lights we're doing this or that we have a great city a well run city a safe city but is this the opportunity and keep in mind this isn't the first refund we've refunded eighteen plus million over the last couple years and so all our revenues are frozen that doesn't freeze the cost of doing business and we're told as a sales tax community that's dependent on sales tax that economic development is very important so the city has done a great job doing economic development to the point now where we're just giving it back so what is the incentive to continue to go out and bring new jobs and bring new businesses to a community when we can't keep up with the growth of what that is bring us if this was an issue where i could pinpoint say everybody in the city who spent money in the city should get a certain percentage back that's great but keep in mind some of this money and we don't know what what percentage of these dollars comes from people outside of our city who are coming to our city to spend their dollars and creating impacts to our community that we're not able to offset because that money is going right back out so keep in mind this is just purely isn't everybody in the city in ten years on the city council we've never even examined raising taxes and that's something that i never would be a part of whether as a council member or whether i was a mayor for the city of lakewood but this is important it's bold it's easy to say no it's easy to say no but it's not easy to say you know i'm not thinking of my next election i'm not thinking of my future i'm think of the future of our community and our community deserves a bold commitment to say we're looking at all aspects and we're going to give you the opportunity to say we agree we want to see this we want to see this money go so that our kids ten twenty thirty forty years from now will look back and have the incredible community that we were left with so with that there's a motion in a second i'm going to ask for a vote a yes vote would be to refund the taber dollars and no vote would be to continue the conversation with bringing a refund to all right and that fails eight to three the nays being paul vincent franks get one skilling harrison abel and the beer turn on my mind is this the time to say then should we go ahead and vote to put it on the ballot so before we go there i'd like to try to stick to some framework so if i can if it works it's called the decision tree i learned today in sobs and thank you and so next on the decision tree since the first one was checked is the way we looked at this was twelve point five million do you want to do something unique with that one amount for the first year and then look at a different formula for the ongoing years or do you want to do one for all of that but i have a question i have a threshold of a cancer in some good we haven't decided whether we're going to put it on the ballot or not don't we have to decide that first and then we can decide the i think about it got all we just decided can i well one second ok does that make sense by default the question was do we want to continue if it was a yes vote then we would have stopped right yes question the question is we just dealt with a motion that would have kept it off the ballot we have not dealt with a motion as to whether and i was referring to the twelve point five million we haven't gotten to the point where we have even discussed the exemption and the possibility of it the term of it so i think the first thing we need to do is to decide on since we have only to put the twelve and a half million on the ballot that seems to be where we are and we need to deal with that step before and then deal with another step on any exemption so again mr graham so again the protocol that i laid out was to deal with twelve point five to look at the ongoing and then to look at that term the on going on going well ok relaxing at the twelve and a half first and make a decision on that then we will make a decision on between if we're going to even look at the twelve point five different from ongoing if you want it just to be one thing going forward or you want to look at the twelve point five separate does that make sense for your counselor counselor franks thanks mayor paul in anticipation that we could get to this point tonight where we basically sound like decided to put it on the ballot counter skilling and i put together  example really to try to facilitate the discussion i'm sorry that doesn't fit in with the decision tree but what we did was we tried to put actually does so i wanted to make sure everybody saw that that was at your desk and that we tried to really basically talk to the timeframe we tried to talk to the the first bucket of twelve million knowing that any year after that was you know not set in stone and so we talked through that exemption we talked through multiple buckets and so i  think that might have might give us some framework sysadmin to kind of make sure that the audience knew since they can't see what we're looking at and i don't know if it makes sense to put a copy up to just guide the discussion or not but certainly so maybe i'm not but that's exactly the format i'm following so the not your number one follows my question of twelve point five what would that do for the first year and then your number two follows what do you want that to look like if you go beyond the first year and then the number three follows what's your time frame so it tracks with that draft document and so my question is if you want to so say the decision the council was we don't want to do anything different with that first year then we would go to number two and say we want all of the refunds to follow this formula ok what i think i had envisioned when we were drafting this was that this would be i'll be if it hasn't been vetted and has to go through legal in the language the actual words final version of this doesn't contemplate the founders it was just a framework of just ideas but it's put in an example ballot question and the first question does talk about the twelve five but it that first paragraph contemplates two thousand and seventeen and beyond and so this whole thing would be part of the ballot question it's not going to be if you choose number one then do you choose also number two this is one question i  i'm following that what i'm trying to say though is some on council wanted three parts for the whole thing what i'm saying we need to get past that to see if a majority a council wants to just do a single source or two sources for that twelve point five we need aside and then that'll lead us then to the next part that says ok so let's go with your example of council decides we want twelve point five million to go to open space period th that if council majority wants that then we move to the second tier and then we look at the next few years of council says no we don't want that told point five to go only to open space then we need to have that conversation as to what those other things you want that twelve point five to go to then whenever it's appropriate i would like to make a motion on this and then people can do amendments and everything you just said or yeah that's what i said went up when appropriate that's what i looking at so let's make sure when he has an opportunity to read this draft please and get an understanding of that framework so i think that would help us the saud's and i was just going to clarify and maybe say this in a different way for the people that are listening it may be confusing to hear the top point five and then this other this other potential refunds from here on the twelve point five is an actual audited figure from two thousand and seventeen that is due to be reimbursed or to be used for city services so that's an actual audited number so that's really the first question what the city council if this is going to go on the ballot as you heard from many people people want to hear what are going to do with our money so the first question is with that audited number why do you want to do that to a point five you know here to go into one pot maybe split into a few or whatever so that's really the first decision the second decision then is what about the money that is the refunds that we don't know from now on in the last several years they have ranged between about four million and five million and we don't know what next year or the following years will be so the question is with that unknown number perpetuity is it without without a sunset is it a sunset of five years ten what is that to me that's really question number three cents you've already decided that it will be on the ballot and go to the people so that's already that's decision tree one number two is fighting to do with their twelve point five that's an odd number what are you going to do with the upcoming refund dollars that are unknown at this point and number three is perhaps for how long that makes sense and make it clearer so we're we've addressed number one and now we have two three and four and then we're done easy peter repeated i think all right so let's turn your light on thank you thank you i believe that i would like to see is divide the twelve point five and three equal pots and the pots in my mind would be police and i'm just going to call it parks because in my mind parks and open space can be similar we've got a lot of older parks and wards one into not a lot i would say a few parks that could probably use a little enhancing as well as other locations we could have some places that could be updated so i want to add parks and open space and then my third bucket would be infrastructure and infrastructure our would be all those things that we kept hearing sidewalks street lights it could be streets it could be things that we need to do to continue to address what the citizens of lakewood have talked about so that those would be the three buckets and i would like to see is to twelve five is is that as a chunk of money to dedicate exclusively and one hundred percent to one thing i want to make sure that all the citizens can feel some of this money distributed in a manner that's appropriate for them and i think using the three buckets we get that thank you so i have councillor frank vincent skilling glad we've got that settled so i know this will be a lot a lively discussion about this i would like to talk why we felt that the entire first twelve point five million was appropriate for parkland in open space on those assets time is of the essence we have a lot of development pressure  we have communities that are coming to us along colfax saying they don't even have a place nearby for a park we haven't in equitable distribution of our park land and that land is more valuable in some of those areas in so time is of the essence and so we know that the taylor property is in the range of seven million dollars certainly we're always looking for grant money but every other communities looking for grant money too and none of these properties will be inexpensive i think it's also important to know that we have some unknown you know in the ward for the rainy valley a lot of pressure going on over there is development so that would certainly be an area that we would want to look at i also think that there are some things for which we should be looking at possibly spending down the reserve now i'm a big saver certainly not someone who likes to to spend down those things too much but for me things that are for our place if we need new agents i think we need to look at budget don't want to put things on there that are year over year expenses and certainly not don't want to even send a message to our police department that their safety is subject to some two of them coming vote so i think those are all important things and so i'm really advocating for in year one twelve point five million going to the acquisition of new open space in parkland and then all future years having three separate buckets which i know is a part later part in the decision tree so i'll save those comments until then thank you so vincent yes i think i just support what councilor harrison said there is a lot of need for parkland and open space especially in the older sections of the city but there's also a very big need for sidewalks and lighting and community policing and some safety responses so i would hate for it all to be put in one pocket when there's a lot of needs that i think contributed to all over the city councilor abel that's  with open space but i don't see that guarantee coming from anywhere and time is more of the sins and protecting our police officers open spaces at the top of my list but second and our officers need we found out through an unfortunate incident in the county that for traditional protective gear is not good enough and i don't think there is a higher priority than protecting those who protect us then comes opens us we should never put our money on a tape or refund to do any ongoing operational expenses because we don't know what it will amount to mr doors told us he can't tell us about the taber amount will be next year so one time expenditures are a good way to target the us i've seen too many federal mandates require us to have an ongoing expense and then they withdraw all the federal mandate and we have to scramble to backfill so certainly i'll go for just about anything any split we want i do think so also along with the police with the public safety aspect we have twelve and a half million dollars we had a real close call at the federal center on homeless shelter we need to put some money into the plight of the homeless because that also has a great deal of effect not only on public safety but on how safe people feel and their homes and on their property so i think we have a long row to hoe on earmarking this money and i would be surprised if we can get there tonight but those concepts are the ones i want to put forward thank you we're going to surprise you echo what counselor frank said we're not going to least in my opinion one of our absolute fundamental duties as a city is to put is to support the police officers and that cannot be dependent on whether evo is yes or no either by us or by the people i i can't guarantee anything because i'm not kenya so i can't i can't guarantee that we're going to do that but i think through this process and we talked about the body armor especially i think that that's something we absolutely have to take a look at and if they need that we just need to get it to them the twelve and a half plus million dollars i proposed along with counselor franks that it all be used for the purpose of acquiring open space and parkland and i'm not diminishing the value of sidewalks and other uses and that they're all extremely important but this is the legacy stuff that when none of us are here you know they're still really are you know about sidewalks are still going to be arguing about you know turn lanes and transportation potholes and all that we've got twelve and a half million dollars that we can use to support the legacy of building parks in places not just ward four in ward one that we heard in ward two to councillor vinson's point this is the time to act i think that we have and we'll talk later about the other buckets that we had proposed going forward that addressed some of these concerns including sidewalks but for the twelve and a half million i am a firm believer in that we invest that in open the compromise alternative i'd be happy to entertain doubling that one third pile that some of us have mentioned for open space and offer up eight point five for open space in parks and suggest doing to other amounts of like two million for public safety in two million for infrastructure that sort of meets everybody halfway it does touch on getting some immediate assistance to you know capital needs for police or also infrastructure needs around the city that could be a quick infusion for sidewalks and things like that so i would just offer that up as a potential alternative and the other reason i would suggest that is just simply because we also do have other funding structures for parks and open space we just are feeling increased so i think there might be some additional money there so just in a just a thought  thank you cancer good one thank you i think this is a really this is challenging and it's a really important  decision and i think there's a lot of great ways that the community could invest this and i fully agree with the legacy that we can leave with our open space and i think that we do that we have we just did the taylor property which is going to be a legacy edition and i want to see us continue to do that but at the other day i you know in my family safety first that is the it all always comes back to that and so i think you know i'm looking as i'm thinking about this i went back to the twenty six thousand citizens survey and was looking at what our community priorities are and you know the number one community value and and what's important to our community in this survey ninety one percent was crime prevention  safety is the most important thing to our community according to the survey and that's my own personal value and what i hear as well the other thing is that i you know we have this list of what could taper limits pay for one of the things is the personal protective equipment which i think all is hitting us pretty emotional you know in an emotional way of what that means to our agents and how important that is  but the reality is that's not the only thing on this list that they need and we just got that they just got smart phones and one of the other things on here i mean that is just crazy this is not the i that you're seeing on t v ok they just got smart phones and two years ago but we have there's other things i mean we talked about benefits  what the other one on here though oh patrol car lighting that seems like a pretty basic thing to that they should have the additional benefits and then another one is zero license plate readers i mean so i the point is that this isn't just a one time spending that we can fix with a one time use withdrawal out of our out of our reserves i think that we you know when the voters originally passed the three percent and what city services are is a lot of it as is our police we do police parks and streets and so i think that we should stick with those three buckets it's what we've been talking about tar community it's what karen and i have been talking about in ward five even though we didn't have the specific language i think it reflects the community needs i think we're still going to be able to hit the legacy edition of parks and open space but while taking care of our safety so i'm going to weigh in real quick here on this part of the discussion i certainly you know understand the need and have had a conversation was really supportive of the first kind of chunk going strictly to open space i think if we do do something along those lines we need to make sure that there's an equity part to that making sure we're looking at wards one and two you know areas that are really you know have less parkland  and in those areas it's going to be more expensive parkland right you don't have open spaces but also and this is where i worry a little bit is when we have that much money which i think our total parks budget is eight million so we would increase just in one whole swath does that mean we have to then look at getting full time employees to maintain to look at and where does that and i think i've said i've been very cautious a wanting to utilize this money to put out side of the police department which we can talk about putting in new jobs because this is this is this is a council said let's look at capital capital infusions right this this is a one time potentially two time thing and i don't want us to be you know we don't want to grow we're not we're not here to grow the government we're here to look at opportunities to enhance our community and so  suggestion i think has some merit for me as well looking at some capital infusions to those two areas that would have meaningful and i had the opportunity to go to the ward to meeting and spend some time along light rail this weekend talking to folks and it is a different dichotomy there is the homeless situation that counselor will talk about and that we're trying to get ahead of and there is some issues with policing and we heard from somebody who said you know they used to have great conversations with their sector liaison agent but because of the growth and the change that's changed they're not as available as they were and so is that also an area so that's my two cents on this part of the johnson i actually have a question that backs up next to jacob's comment do we know how much money we anticipate to get from the recent fee in lieu ordinance do we have any idea over the last several years the developments it could have qualified for this new ordinance maybe that would be helpful for this discussion to have an idea about how much we can anticipate in them and also i noticed in the tear to it mention this kind of goes along with parks and ampitheater at the whitlock park and i just thought that this was part of the north dry gulch discussion could somebody please t to that so we can get you that information i'm not sure as to the the different tiers and where and what if that is part of the storm water i don't think the enhancement would come from storm water as i think that enterprise a strictly would be for the improvements so we can get you that information  remember the vote in ninety two  point i don't want to get in a predicament where we'd have to hire another full time person which we just take that money away from anything that we could do in parkland that that concerns me so i don't know if it's eight three three year or how you broke it out but ok i'm in favor make a cautionary comment about twenty years ago there was a piece of open space that was available to the city for twenty thousand dollars it was the old y and we let it go you know want because we were worried about having to maintain the property we had that deal now with john pat it so i have no  no concern with so it's ongoing expenses will have a chance later booming population to throw in a few more bucks for maintenance of open space we can't let monies for other uses but i certainly don't want to rule out opens large open space purposes just because it costs a cent to the maintainer you know through our fingers again that was an awful thing on the y yes ms benson yes i'm sorry can i ask i think you said ten million for police yeah ten million and two and a half million  suggested eight and four and a half so i would just like to see the public safety aspect public safety is not all police there are other things involved including quite a few transportation for traffic signals and that sort of thing so it was just put out i did just just a little more generous split for public safety and and less for some other projects partly i guess can be used for walking trails through the new parks sure parks sidewalks he supports would include park paths paths that are within a park think my question wasn't saying that it's not worthy because of maintenance but if we do a restricted fun to make sure that if if we're going to restrict it to look at if we are going to enhance with that much open space there could be some maintenance dollars that we need to be cognizant of to have some flexibility and i think it's incumbent on us to find i was in future your budgets from operating costs you don't want to fund operating costs with a temporary source of income are an unsteady source of income when you never have been revenue bond issues that include  maintenance and that's that's an operetta ongoing operational thing that should come from general fund o revenue year after the twelve and a half million the first bucket includes improvements and maintenance of said open space and parkland and if that means we need more people to do things i dare the council to say that adding more jobs is a bad thing so i would think that we've taken exactly what you guys of shown as a concern and that is actually in the draft knowing it can't be the taylor properties where it's all natural people if we're going to have neighborhood parks those are going to have to be improved at some point however folks twelve and a half million dollars does not come around very often this plan that we had before and i know i'm jumping the gun but i'll take a little bit a license this second part we contemplated that this wouldn't sunset after one year wouldn't sunset after two years that we had proposed something in the five year span i'm sure people can the compromise could make that longer but these other buckets talk about infrastructure sidewalks transportation improvements and to the point of the police or public safety if folks want propose that to be a third bucket that's going to be the very next year of revenue retention so that money would be in the short term could go to police one more kavya with that said body armor discussion that can't be part of this i don't think we can put because if this wouldn't pass if say the voters say no are we not going to give them body armor of course just a question so the the i and i meant that a very friendly are you know what and this is a very loving answer as well mr skilling the if it fails and we come back and we put it in from the operating budget is set simple but we have a chance right now to get the money pulled it out of tabor at the voters say so and put the body armor on our officers without the law well without much if the voters say no then we come back and do it the other way which is how we would have to do it now absent any taber overage so sure let's not take a chance on it being turned down by council and a future year i'd like to see it done now and as soon as possible we can back fill parks and open space in future years from this for that two and a half  the compromise included that spend that we would say right now as part of this there could be no back and forth about the body especially that is the hard materials not the things that we know they need right now then i think that that's a compromise position we should discuss thank you however the vast majority of it still needs to be for open space ok and with that said if you do capital purchases for the police department that also allows human rights to be funded through their general funding right so you're freeing up the body armor is not there only i mean there's a swat vehicle which they don't have on anymore is my understanding so there's a lot of other things and and i i don't want to necessarily be the ones picking and choosing what the police department what we think that they want i think that's more a conversation for our police chief and hurts but also because of the type of problems that we're seeing in law enforcement now there there definitely is a need to change the way we do business and and one of those one of those needs are not only body armor but also an armored vehicle we used to have on and it pretty much tied it and we've tried to share costs with other agencies and right now we borrow jefferson counties the problem is when there's a call we we time is of an essence and we just don't have time i mean it it makes it really delays our response and we have to call jeffco make sure their armored vehicle is is available and then bring it from wherever it is in jeffco so that's the type of thing that's a one time cost it's an expensive costs right now we're estimating that at about three hundred thousand dollars but it's one time and it would absolutely protect those men and women in the police department that's that's a type of expense that's necessary and finding that in our current budget has been a challenge as we've gone through our budget preparations as you know there are more than more departments than just the police department and we really have finite resources and have to share those so i would vehicle is not a part of our budget at this time my recollection in councilor the bear may correct me but my recollection coming out of the budget not a committee was that the needs of of public safety were like four four point two million something like that so it doesn't make any sense to put eight million that direction when when i think the request was only for about forty four million the other thing that they came out of the budget not a committee thank you what is the number four point six ok schools so the other thing is that they tried when we came out of the budget committee the kind of split up the needs kind fairly evenly between i thought between public safety parks and infrastructure and public works and i think that i think that makes the most sense going forward because number one we don't know that there's going to be any other refunds pass this year so i think that to me was the most sensible and that it came from staff it came from discussions with with the finance so so i think that's the to me makes most sense the way to go and then and i would say leave it the same proportion going forward if there is whatever you all decide in terms of the coming years split it up between those three needs because those needs are ongoing and you know different parts of the city have different needs to i think we all benefit from public safety i think all of the wards benefit from that  but there are certain needs and i recognize that and certainly worn to one in two in terms of redevelopment of their park space and adding to it as well and we were fortunate to it's some  redevelopment in ward three this is last year but i recognize and i can see from what i've been been to the other parks that they could use some faceless two so i would think myself and the best bet is to keep in roughly the same proportion about a third a third and third between those three and that would be my suggestion thank you sir so councillor franks harrison get wind of the beer and then maybe we can start to get just goes into these buckets and then doesn't get spent for there so that's why we had a section at the bottom of our proposed language and again i appreciate that all the discussion we're having where it says the revenues retained pursuant to the above shall be maintained as a separate budget with oversight by city council to ensure the monies collected are use solely for the purchase purposes described in sections one and two and so i think it's important that we to some degree of specificity we have a large number of citizens who don't maybe trust past spending i think that's a fair thing to say and thinking that if we don't get specific then it becomes at the whim of us to then move those funds around and so i think it's important to at least acknowledge that i wanted to get one point of clarification i thought council of the better i thought you had said eight million for open space two million and two million was i right in that yes ok because i was more amenable to that because we certainly again i'm still trying to get the time is of the essence so when these purchases come up you know with the taylor property we're still going after grant money but you know what everybody else is going after grant money too so we may not get as much as we want so i want to be prepared with that i would be more in line to move towards that direction in then be able to put in the safety funding at the two million which would more than cover armored vehicle in the body gear in the other things that are necessary to keep keep our citizens safe but again don't want to get into operating expense line items at that point so i really wanted to clarify for the people up here so that they didn't hear was eight million is another option put on the table i'd still love to see the full full thing but i know that i'm not seeing a lot of love on that so you know my moving on eight  how expensive those are i'm assuming they're probably close to a million dollars aren't they estimated at about three hundred three hundred ok thank you that's why my husband doesn't allow men to go shopping  it's really important i believe to have something like that in the city of lakewood and you know archives work hard and we need to keep them safe that's for sure so i'm going to go back to our my original idea i still love it a third nothing written a third you haven't convinced me yet but i could be bought for another three hundred thousand  bear question so you know one of the things that are a bunch of the items that came out of the committee for safe community and i believe these were all put together by staff which would mean chief mccaskey helped put this list together or put it put together and you know so this talks about adding agents and other staff to the to our team and i know that i've i'm hearing people are concerned about doing that however our agent in our arse saff who manage and successfully manage our team seem to not have economic downturns before have we had to do layoffs furloughs salary freezes that kind of thing and are weak would we be concerned about adding additional agents using this fundings thank you i will ask finance director do one just come and sit at the desk place and talk about during the past recession and how liquid fared as our neighbors were experiencing for a lot of salary freezes and layoffs and how they quit it sure thank you larry dorsey a liquid finance director and city treasurer thank you for the question so during the great recession of roughly two thousand and nine through two thousand and twelve  the city was able to survive without any furloughs without any wage freezes without any layoffs or any reductions so that was that was admirable last decade early last decade however the city did experience a recession whereby there were jobs city worker jobs that were layoffs so it can happen i think much was learned by that  our staff leadership and elected leadership in terms of increasing the reserves and making sure that there's an operating reserve to help avoid that should it come to pass in the future so yeah i think that's a little bit about the history of economic recessions and like what so then it seems to me what you're saying what makes sense as public policy is that we can use our reserves in the event of economic downturn to prevent needing to do layoffs so if what we need from our police department and i agree i i think that our chief and arce daf should be the ones determining exactly how these funds get spent and where they're the most needed they see this on a day to day basis more than i do and so you know if they think we need agents i don't want to say no we can't do agents i think then we can hodson during those tough times though you demanded that each department spend five percent less than their budget as well as put a freeze on any new positions for at least a couple years right or that's right we used a couple of techniques during during this time so since two thousand and nine we haven't had furloughs sorry freezes or layoffs and part of the deal was yes there want to be new positions approved unless it was an emergency kind of thing and also i gave a challenge to all the department heads and asked that they don't spend five percent of their budget so that they could turn that money back and the deal was they don't spend the five percent and they'll still maintain the bottom line so they won't lose that five percent it's typical in some bigger governments that at the very end of the year there's a big run of expenses of people so people don't lose their their baseline budget so they do we made was you don't spend five percent and i'll make sure you still have the base so that you don't have that incentive to go and buy a bunch of stuff at the end here so and it worked really well and the department heads did that really well and then we will take a little break ten minute break so i would just counsel be disappointing to a good one one of the reasons i'm amenable to more compromise position a is because with the counselor skilling's proposal and councillor frank's proposal they do divided into three buckets snapshot peek at our city managers proposed budget which does also include in clude increase operational agents for the police department so a compromise position i feel like is is suitable for this ballot question and it also gets to the heart of some of the capital expenses like the vehicle on p p and l p r which are really expensive infrastructure when you only spend five hundred grand a year on a sidewalk not including grants any infusion into a sidewalk is going to be quite the turnaround are you know it's going to be quite an infusion so you know two million for sidewalks i'll take it thanks right all right so let's take a ten fifteen let's take a ten minute break and councillor johnson you are on the board so we will recess for ten minutes at ten fifteen ok i'd like to reconvene the lakewood city council me august thirteenth twenty eighteen ten twenty eight pm i have councillor johnson and councillor harrison and that's how  thank you this might help just a little bit with the conversation maybe when i looked at the tear one projects for public safety and if you exclude  police agents and investigative technicians and the five community service officers and only  let's see here the patrol car lighting license plate readers the swat vehicle personal protective equipment and the police mobile computers it comes to one million nine hundred  twenty five thousand dollars so that's a good amount that you're looking at it does not also include the police training facility  when you look at parks the only things that are actually listed here are restrooms playgrounds shelter shading landscaping mostly that kind of thing it does not talk about at least on this one acquisition of open space and so i'm wondering if the sot was behind this was the fee in lieu if that would be covering that that piece i don't honestly know but i'm just at least telling you know what what's in here ok i'm going to go ahead and make a motion that we divide up the the refund to a point five refund and pots one third one third one third those thirds be police parks and infrastructure those needs to be divided up and chosen by the department heads i don't want to be the one choosing the police equipment for them i would also like to be for ten years thank you ok so i'm go single motion is really what i'd prefer because i think there's a whole nother discussion that people want to have with yours so ok so i'll just withdraw the time period so a third and a third and a third at the full twelve five and the same schedule to remain for future years can i say it that way yes the second case we have a motion in the second skilling you were on but did you want to speak to this motion or did you want to speak to something else i was going to speak to my own motion so i can either discuss this one and the prospects of amending this one to comport with the motion that i was going to put forward or we could discuss this motion in a capsule and then we can move on to the next however you want to handle it i would like to  hear if you want to address amending this well then i would offer the amendment that we do it instead of a third a third a third that out of the twelve million five hundred thousand and change that you do eight and a half million open space and park land acquisition two million to police capital investment in safety related equipment and two million in infrastructure and transportation second so before each second that needs to win the acceptance on the amendment well there's some truth but that's that's a hijacking ever riginal motion right i mean i think the way we've tried to play is to talk and she wants to withdraw and you know we didn't we we had a motion a second on hers i don't want to hijack anybody's motion i'm just trying to get is a discussion about putting this to a vote on a resolution waiters i'm just trying to if we've got a consensus on which we were going i certainly understand i certainly understand harrison i would be you know what i'd really like is i'd like the voters to respond to what we're going to do with the money so could we vote if you guys don't want to do the third and a third we can work on dave's motion so can i call my own question and have a specific us the third and a third and a third and then if we don't if it doesn't pass we can keep working mr mayor if i may so we have harrison's motion which i believe is good wine seconded then we have an amendment to that motion made by mr skilling which mr abel seconded so right now in front of you you have the amendment so that's what you need to address at this moment unless somebody wants to withdraw their motion which would have to be ok with the second i hope that made sense drawing vietnam in especially if that's the stork will present that we're doing i have absolutely no problem with and then we can come back to this depending on i have a problem with historical precedent goin robert's rules of order which are opposed seasoned procedures say we follow however i will withdraw my second thank you and next time i will then not allow that to happen that told him i understand that so cancer harrison you have a motion in a second is there any discussion on the third a third a third ok seeing then please cast your that you need further clarification i would make a motion that we that i previously made as part of the amendment but it would be a motion that we use the twelve million five hundred dollars pending refund from two thousand and seventeen that that retained amount be used for the following purposes that eight and a half million of that be used solely for acquisition of open space and parkland two million of that be use solely for police capital investment in safety related equipment and that the remaining two million dollars be use soley for infrastructure and transportation lease protective gear is that what were those words it was capital investments in safety related equipment like the safety related equipment we were discussing was the protective armor and the armored vehicle and i don't believe those add up to two million dollars so a jew you want to label it all for say all of the police dollars for safety related equipment or you know and i think the distinction was you have within the police category we want to be specific with what the voters it's not just some generic idea and this is mainly things that are not the personnel the hiring of agents that sort of thing because we discuss that's a separate part of the budget that this would be an allocation of two million dollars to buy all those capital things that we need now that was the intent behind here but not all of them being safety related because my point is that we don't have two million bucks for it's a safety related expenditures on the table right now i would definitely word it to encompass we just heard one point nine million and it was almost exact there those were all capital investments i would include those if we can get the verbiage correctly as the two million i agree with tha so that's to clarify it's really it's immediate public safety protective and capital investment as lynn of the list whoever had the that actual list the came out to one point nine without getting too specific because you can have a ballot question that's pages and pages long but what the understanding needs to be well i mean you can for these purposes we're trying to get across is we have specific goals that have been set by the police department of capital investment that we can make and we just want to convey that being as specific as possible but maybe not too specific so the motion in the second as it stands would be there's no issues with the other language however just the expansion of of that and i think we need to get that tuned in so we know exactly what that is going to be mr mayor i believe ms vincent second in that motion i'd like to make sure that she's also on board with the way mr skilling as part of the twelve five we haven't talked about the as a going for quickly want to say that piece supporting this because as i said in the beginning i think there's a lot of great ways that we can invest this money and i think that this is a great compromise and allows us to still have a bunch of the important and critical safety needs and the potential for some really exciting legacy parks and open space so thank you we have a motion second we're clear on harrison can i try a second time ongoing refund i would like it divided one third one third one third those three buckets being police infrastructure and parks motion in a second any discussion those buckets that the open space in parkland is specific in that within that bucket it equally goes to acquisition improvements and maintenance of said open space and parklands also with the if we're going to add the police bucket or public safety bucket it would need in my opinion to be smore specific as to what that's going to similar how we did the twelve five on and if we're going to do it as going forward basis on those buckets we should also be specific as to what we're using the money for and third on the infrastructure and transportation council or frank side proposed using out for a sole purpose relating to sidewalks and then on the transportation and of it we had decided on or come up with high priority transportation improvements so with that said i would just add  more specificity if we could to what we're doing with this and i would just be my comment so counselors harrison and vincent you could essentially i could you could essentially do your a which is the acquisitions improvements maintenance of open space and parklands let's hear ok i think by looking at this you could combine b and c and then you'd have to figure out the thing the new c which would be public safety and you want that to be as restrictive as the language above or more open and i want it more open because of the fact that i i think very likely that could include employees we don't know what that's going to be in a year or two because remember we're talking about subsequent years we're not going to see this for probably at least two years before we're dealing with it so so there's a motion and a second and you're willing to do that a in combine b and c let's say i'm sorry you're willing to do the a and combine b and c yes and then now you're looking for just some feedback on the extra wording for public safety slash police so i'd like council to weigh in on that part which would be the public safety peace paul on the public safety piece again i want to kind of reiterate that i think we have to have some language at the at the end of any ballot proposal which talks about how it's going to be accounted for and separated i think that is a huge i mean i heard that across the two years is a lack of trust from a certain percentage of our citizens that if you make these so vague and they can't track them and you had people's testimony tonight saying well we were told  and it didn't quite make it there and so i think that you run run the risk of folks thinking it's another it's a shell game and was another shell game i mean i'm just mean a shell game where they're not going to be able to clearly see where those things go and you will just set the conversation up differently then you'll set it up if you're just willing to be very specific and again that's what we tried to do now i wanted to remind folks that the areas that we bracketed those were just ideas those weren't what we we were just saying you know if you're going to say infrastructure and then we thought for the sole purpose of the expediting the installation repair and upgrade of sidewalks you could also add to that and street lights if you felt that the street lights you could just take that language kind of lift it up and then add in one or two other things to where it was clear that that's going to expediting sidewalks it's going to wherever we have unsafe areas that are you know poorly lit and then you can then people can see a vision a literal vision of that's what i'm going to get that third of that bucket same thing with transportation we put in brackets in areas with documented high priority public safety issues if we have an area that needs around about because that's the for better traffic flow or we have you know to put in  upgraded lights that are that are timed better and those kinds of things same thing with public safety i think if you're not specific there is a enough people out there who are going to think this is just a way to shift operating costs over into a different pocket and we run the risk of having a wholly different conversation so i just really wanted to point that out that's why we were getting those brackets is to expand those ideas and make sure that we kind of tucked in there very specific things for a vision may i add one other piece mr mayor when other clarification that i would want to add is that i think the last paragraph that dave and barr pat in there about revenues retained should be have a separate budget and be identified clearly i think that's important to happen there as well appreciated counselor franks's perspective on that and i'm happy to take a look at doing an annual review or something to that effect and i mean or something the fact of the a language the language that's below number two there so there are a couple of things first did we screw up a step so we had to discuss whether we want to do an ongoing or not before we actually have one that has and was there  i had requested that we do that after this part i understand where you're going with your question but already and my other caution is the street lights in traffic lights timed lights those can all be part of public safety i think we need to define what we mean we want to add an issue on a tax proposal and half of it was to go to public safety again most folks figured that was police and we found out no that's also traffic light street sweeping sand for the snowplow our ice slice that kind of thing so are we talking and we can do it either way but are we talking police on one hand one one third of it is police and those other things that could also be public safety come in one of the other baskets so it's is infrastructure i do think we need to be solid about it i would hate to see infrastructure start taking money out of that public safety pot that we wanted to go to police my understanding was the police part was going to be it's specific to police police capitol police saying public safety policing so the police redo it as we've kind of piece together what folks have talked about and the lead part of that was do we need to first consider whether we want to do it and an ongoing fastener just pick it up  between so i was hoping that we can maybe frame this then and then we can say this would be whatever council of the nursery decided whether we want to do something ongoing on the ballot and then decide what term that would be yes thank you councillor johnson and then get one thank you mayor i would just like to kind of back up something the coun frank said some of the problems with mistrust in the community when referendum see past it was not spent the way it was marketed so that kind of adds to  councillor abel we have to remember this is an unsteady funding stream and when you start looking at personnel i think we're doing the police department a disservice that i never said anything about personnel ok misinterpreted then and then also under tear one that the police themselves identified was a police training facility there would be four hundred fifty thousand dollars that i didn't include in the last group of things that i had added up that was mostly equipment so there you go  i don't really have a magic bullet here but we may need some help from staff as we proceed through this but i completely agree with what counselor frank said that we need to have this well spelled out so that our community can trust and then and hold us accountable and so i do think that that last paragraph needs to be included in here i think that the public safety should and we could include the protective equipment the capital improvements and additional agents or community policing agents so that that that still picks up the needs that were listed in the seneschal list so i think we should add the word agents and maybe this is a process question but help me understand we don't have a lot of time for staff to come back for us to agree without giving you some pretty strong guidelines that's accurate we do need to rush in so that we can the the language together for your vote on the twenty seventh ok that's that's what i thought so i don't think we've got a lot of time to go back to seven have them come back to so when you when you talk about language what is it maybe you're looking for could you give me an example well we're looking for you our direction so as we will be playing the tape over and over so that we capture whatever your decisions are and and then of course you can make changes on the fly if you want but we want to be as close as possible with the language so we'll try to interpret as closely as we can what you're deciding this evening but you still have leeway if you want to make any modifications that evening on the twenty seventh we're going to try to get as close as we can ok what you're talking about thank you does that help having a lot of  harrison i'm going to give her a couple minutes she's writing are we ok with the motion as it stands now when we get that verbiage to go ahead and add the piece that was not in the original motion about the revenues in the look back what i'll do is i'll have you both repeal it and then as before she makes it again go to you to suggest ok thank you ok i think i'm ready mr mir ok and also there is there's also been stated interest to include that last paragraph my original motion and i will remove my second thank you and i'd like to make a new motion motion to say with the subsequent revenue stream from the refund from the taper refund the refund would be placed in these three levels first bucket would be acquisition improvements and maintenance of open space and parkland the third second division would be infrastructure for the sole purpose of expediting the installation repair and upgrade of sidewalks including transportation improvements in areas with documented high priority public safety issues the third bucket would be police and which includes capital investment and safety equipment and agents with these three expenditures the revenues retained pursuant to the above shall be maintained as a separate budget with oversight by the city council to ensure the monies collected are use solely for the purposes described in sections one and two thank you very much to barb and david for doing e second part of that was transportation improvements in areas of documented high priority public safety issues so that could be streets or bridges or whatever would be needed at the curb and got her and franks i did what i did want to make sure i heard it's for the expediting also the installation so this is for new so it's basically for our backlog of a lot of new ones a sidewalks and then the repair and the upgrade of existing sidewalks where needed and then the street lights that we added and then the transportation improvements come with those that are the high priority safety issues where then you get all the other types of things you know curb cuts and all of that so  it is pretty broad i know it sounds narrow but it actually is pretty broad night i don't see for see any issues spending those funds in that way we've got a quite a backlog in that area and so we have emotions s we clear on that concern would be if that is the case it should read street lights not including signal lights or my i think street lights often the public believes that that includes a signal light as well red gels and greens sure but doesn't or street lights the ones we have around so if we have street lights in those two we then adopt the responsibility for putting in street lights so let me add to that i think where that's coming from is in the areas along the light rail where we have paths and things like that to increase safety and enhanced ment's i think that is where that is being kind of driven i'm sorry paver always saying we need another street light and it's not up to us to provide those i do understand that we do yeah yeah if x l doesn't want to put them in those places or they don't consider the  light rail part of their area of operation that's fine with me i'd just like to make sure we make it clear i'm not talking about your every day street light and we can we can put street lights in lakewood can do that so that is an appropriate use and it's also true to say we do have some concerns around the light rail with path lighting as well so that somehow if that could be included that's it that's a need over and more to do we want to be that specific and targeted for those kind of things well first so that would be traffic lights but if you say sidewalks so you could say sidewalks paths and then you could do your lighting built off of that so you could just include paths however we want to do but do we i mean think about this is going to be on the ballot in but instead of s word smithing that now we can as a staff and we can put this together and understanding what where you're trying to go with this we can put that language together and then you can react to it ok so council francs and you know i just wanted to say thank you i think that it's something along ways where it's clear that it's it's basically th the safety aspect of it whether that be way finding lighting you know pathway where people can envision that those stations and areas leading up to those stations get safer but again we've got to make this tight enough where people don't feel like they're reading a novel i'll trust you guys to word smith and i promise i won't do that next meeting ok all right we have a motion second you did say agents perfect ok motions second please everything in between that counselor vincent thing that i've heard the number of years that i've heard rather clearly is ten i think we've done ten before  that seemed to be very palatable to people now and then we need to keep in mind we may not have taber over i knew somebody was going to offer ten and i knew we had five over here so i was going to say something in the middle which is seven thanks that's a good one i agree with the ten i think that in the survey that we extended to the community sixty percent of people said that they'd like to see it lifted in  i think there's something to be said for that however i think that giving people a look back is important and i think it does make it more palatable i think it gives people the chance to hold us more accountable so i don't know that i'd be comfortable in doing something in perpetuity i think it's better to have the look back i think if we do and in fact only twenty percent supported doing five and under so that's a significant portion wanted to see this go for a longer term i think it gives us the chance to really accomplish the goals of the community that we've mentioned before and see the return on their investment  the sidewalks just as an example we've talked about you know it's a million dollars a sidewalk so for only going to do this for one year that that's a two miles of sidewalks i think you know the longer term makes sense and then in terms of i think it i'm comfortable with ten years tabor's been in effect for twenty five years and some people up here aren't comfortable with putting that back to the voters after twenty five years so i think we had proposed five and the reason that we had come up with five or something of that in that area was because that's we heard a lot of feedback on c we've got a lot of moving parts on this it's not is it's not just a single bucket should we exempt colorada mill you know it's got moving parts it's got buckets it's got two thousand and seventeen and then subsequent years with we've talked about the sidewalks and lighting in the past well five years from now maybe we've got all the lighted paths we can stomach and we want to do something different or we see how it goes we've got that last paragraph with the council's going to have  there's going to be that separate silo that we've talked about that budgetary oversight see how it goes i think ten years is a bit ambitious i think five years is probably the sweet spot and there's a lot of folks that even told us just this last saturday that well ok one or two years tops and we said well we need to get me to be more reasonable than that i think the five is a good sweet spot you know that is a discussion point five  so i lean towards ten but i think five is to think it's too short so i think and then maybe a seven or eight if there is a compromise but i think ten is the way to go franks even for the folks who i spoke with who are ardent supporters besides the ones who said into perpetuity five years was absolutely the number that we heard and we have transitioning communities i think that's why i'm actually finding it so different that in two and a half years from my campaigning it's really changed me before trash i would have been probably ran out of town if i kind of opened up some discussions and we had some fairly meaningful discussions so we're watching the communities transition but i also think it's important for us to we've kind of painted some very specific things here and i think those asks me to change we may find in four or five years that our community is telling us that  our rec centers are wholly inadequate for what they want in their name maybe say you know what we would like to have the city add to their parks and rec and some ice you know so for ice hockey and for for figure skating and so we're hearing all of these other things as the community changes and people want services that they are close by that they can utilize in so i'm not comfortable with ten years i think that's too far out for these specific buckets it becomes almost were  of strangling ourselves in a way when we have to be specific because people who don't have a high level maybe trust not all of them but but a number of them don't have trust so the ten years out we kind of bucket it too much but if we don't bucket it enough then we find that people think well what are you go is going to add that dop or any expenses so i'd rather see the five years i can inch maybe up and get comfortable maybe with the seven but i'm more comfortable with the five based on what we've heard as we've heard some people just literally say take the twelve million and be grateful that i'm willing to put a yes for you to get the twelve million and be grateful so i think stretching out to ten i think that anyways it's a concern i'd rather have the five i think that's more reasonable but certainly open to more two thousand and seventeen as year one i don't we see in the future we think five years from the boat you know we're in the middle of the year two right now so i think the motions should be something in the order that includes four years two thousand and seventeen through some number just so that our base really clear on what five years means is i mean five years from the vote or does it mean you know because we're talking about two thousand and seventeen i would i would  to say from two thousand and seventeen to two thousand and twenty two that's five years eighteen i'm sorry two thousand and eighteen through two thousand twenty two is five years i think you need to include two thousand and seventeen mr abel because that would include the twelve million five thirty haven't we already done that didn't we out we've already done the twelve million a  well but for clarity i don't think we're going to be seventeen in that sort of be clear to the community to say that this would would be twenty sunset in how about if we say it sunsets in two thousand and twenty two december thirty first that is an acceptable i second your motion thank you as we have a motion second to sunset this on december thirty first twenty twenty two any comments  years noting that when you start talking about five years you need to actually have the specifics and so that's why we were clear that the two thousand and so that the public to your point may or understood the two thousand and seventeen is actually the pending person thank you very much for this motion but i still i think five years is maybe a little too short i'm kind of i'd like to see at least seven on this simply for the fact that i understand clarity of getting to the people with that but as larry just mentioned we're already into year two five years of planning would give us a sum total of seven years all together that we could be looking at projects and whatnot so you know i i like the seven year idea i like ten even better but i could go for seven that i like twenty twenty five cancer lapeer yeah i would add that i like seven not just because i said it but also because it's not totally unreasonable to think that this country will probably be in a recession in relatively short order it's been over ten years since we've had a recession they generally happen pretty cyclical ie every ten years or so there's a good chance that that happens you get the twelve you maybe get another year it's possible you get in a recession and then that takes two to three years to come out so you've had two years so i like seven might give you two extra years that's what i would say thanks to the motion second a more discussion in this would be to end it and twenty twenty two yes please  start from twenty eight twenty twenty seven december thirty first for all the reasons that i stated before bear i'll make a motion to whatever equals seven might i suggest as a friendly suggestion twenty twenty five yes twenty twenty five work all right so before we move on i need to really want to be really patient and take the time to make sure staff is clear direction because i know that this  been kind of all over the place so take your time and whatever you need from us to get you to where you need to be  the spending of the twelve point five three six five zero four and  that i think that split like this originally a council of peter said eight point five parks seven i mean sorry two million public safety and two million infrastructure and that's five for the open space and park land acquisition two point two million rephrase that two million for police capital investments in safety related equipment and then the remaining two million was for the infrastructure and transportation got it so that's for the term point five and then for the ongoing refunds that would be split third did not pass so it's on the draft it's exactly the language on the draft for the first bucket which is the acquisition improvements and maintenance on little little a little b is the combination what is now the second bucket is the combination of little b and little c with the addition of the pads and lighting that was discussed at it and then the new third bucket would be police capital investments in safety related equipment and agents and then l and agents correct and then the last paragraph that's there that talks about the oversight was also included at it one that starts with the revenues retained pursuant to the a bad shop be maintained got that right and then ongoing refunds right right one third one third one third in terms of the amount and that's actually in the draft as well we have the language equally distributed on an annual basis so it's in that  that but it's there got it so we have it all it's just it's in different parts but we've got and thank you for helping with that summary thank you all for your systems ok general business and i can make this really quick i'd like to have a proposal currently i found out that on the light liquid historical site that anything historical has to be self nominated there is no  mechanism for any identification to say these are historic historically significant to lakewood and there's no restrictions on those also i have found out that there are local nominations to the lakewood historical society that are unknown to many people and they're not together on any site there's also been reach out to the hair just center about saving some of these buildings and we found out that that's not within the parameters so what i'm proposing and also to one of the things that we find is when these places are demolished they're not usually they're done to build high density high density apartments or condos or storage units or something so it adds to the traffic it's not environmentally friendly and there's a lot of things within that  so what i would just like is maybe a study session or some information back from the city about what other places do and if there's anything we can do to maybe strengthen our historical commission  to get a better understanding of our processes and other communities processes as relates to historic preservation so we're getting probably up against things that we need to start to weigh i don't know exactly you know how that's all going to unfold but i think certainly a listing of historical places something that could be added the so are you saying there's a place that lists current you know so if you go in like into like when somebody says hey i thought this building was historically significant the only thing that's listed on there are those things that the commission are responsible for or that have been done to fight so there's nothing from the lakewood historical society listed on there those are local designations there's also no place where there have been some folks who have taken it upon themselves to get either national recognition or state recognition and there's no listing of those case but we're not i understand it does not being followed anymore ms hodson do you know that i'm sorry that doesn't ring a bell for me so i'd have to do a little more research ok please up that like the hollies of the group will write something up saying this is what it is but that doesn't mean anything it doesn't save it right and the other didn't save it either as think it just had to be reviewed or dropped before the historic commission it sounds like you're asking for a conversation a broader conversation or a study sessions so that we can address so so you we can bring up all these issues i'm all have the experts at the table in the lobby refreshed on how this works so if that's if that's agreeable to folks  oh sorry because we have a lot of issues going on i'm wondering if some of these we can just start out with information meaning that get something something informational i don't want to put it on the state we have a lot of other things going on in the city and not that this is an important one but it makes sense to me to kind of say what are we doing what are we not doing what are other cities do and just get something comparable for we kind of make this determination if we're going to send it other places again we're getting full on a lot of things that we're going to start prioritizing and so i'm just concerned i think if we can start informational that might be just the better place to go and i'm i'm fine with that or i don't think we know what we don't know and i guess i don't understand are you saying like denver has where your neighbors can designate your houses historical you saying you want us to look at these things i guess i'm concerned as you mention like something along those lines and there's nothing there's nothing now to my knowledge that says i'll use t loveland house as an example i don't know if i should mention that that i think a lot of people would say is probably historical to lakewood doesn't matter there's no there's no provisions where we have said yes say that's not even what i'm advocating ok so maybe we do start with informational and it's hard to hear it's so we would run to be really clear on what the questions are so because of for because that still also work that's assigning staff to respond to the questions so if you'd like we can i mean i'm for you why don't we just start me with a quick one a one what little one page or two pager of what we do what our rules are so everybody is on the same page and so we know what we're doing and then we can have the discussion then we can brainstorm and quote we need to add if anything and we do have a historical preservation commission that could potentially be utilized for some of th somebody said one am chance ok a lot a lot of wonderful events this weekend  where councillor harrison's pig came in third in line came in sixth seventh and my blue but pig was not very kind so that was a lot if you want to expand and then i just want to just mention on a sad note some folks may know of this gentleman a good friend of mine active in jefferson county politics and at the state capital dzhokhar passed away at the age of thirty last week so i want to send my best to joe and his family and to share a funny story around the time the movie straight outta compton came out we were running for is running for office and he showed up to my house with a straight on a lake with shirts so i thought that was pretty cool although we did not go knock on doors illustrate a liquid shirts tem real quick is getting late i'll just say we're having our community picnic on saturday the dedication starts or the rededication starts that ten ten thirty and then the party starts conversation off tonight was such an organized way to look at things i think that really made a difference thank you thing else  three quick things number one just want to thank everyone including everyone in our community who participated in this taber conversation i think that everyone who added really helped us get to an ultimately great final product that i'm excited will be on the ballot and give everyone a chance to vote number two is that house just wanted to explain why councilor harrison and i did not make a motion to or a proposal to make ordinance updates because that's already under way and so you know we're hearing from our community that they they want to do that and it's already happening so i think that's great so thank you to staff for working on that yes and thank you and then also that the removal process is continuing and underway  so let's leave it at that to thank you mr skilling thank you told the lakewood staff and volunteers and trained folks out at the federal center this weekend including our very own dave whitman and mr keller and all the lakewood folks steve a lot of people that i met out there they were very gracious to a lot of people and it was really really really hot but a lot of people came out and it was  it was a good time so thank you to everybody involved in that thank you the i would want to say thank you to my my pig showmanship mentor we have a bright bulb in this lady was absolutely fantastic she had already won a grand champion showmanship and several things and tried to turn me into a wonderful showman in third place is not thinks everybody who came do our saturday first saturday meeting or two we know next time we're going to have even more people there so that'll be excited and just want to say  trolley it was fantastic i really liked is a place for it with a permanent residence obviously there's a lot of people there as well attended i think they had four hundred plus people there so i really enjoyed getting to see that thanks and i