spice girl has now come out as that for years she was a victim let's stop looking at the victims let's hope understand who are usually the perpetrators i am very fortunate to have with me someone who has extensive as well you've been now we understand that both men per chip violence upon women and women have to some extent to men but let's look right now statistically speaking at the larger volume of the men who have perpetrated violence upon women and of course there's children involved but what is it you've seen in your career in law enforcement and how can we help men to reduce this kind of violence welcome thank you thank you vivian for having me as a law enforcement officer as a parole officer now law enforcement i was a little bit more on the outskirts of the you know i come in to the arrest yes take you in i'm not talking about why as a parole officer i was doing with hardened criminals we had actually so the within the system so in coming out of the system i had a lot of one on one interactions with these hardened criminals these people that were charged with domestic violence assault and the biggest issue that i've seen is one control the man he has to learn how to center himself but see this is where i want women to understand it starts very early on a lot of people hear about domestic violence in the first thing they have been king is he's hitting he's throwing no it starts very early on with a statement like you really look fat in that outfit how does that lead to violence now you might think that's bullying or you know i think that's verbal abuse right but what do you mean by that starts early on do you mean that escalates to avenge yeah absolutely always escalate a telltale it's a tale tale sign because of he's not complimenting you and now now he's accusing you were talking about you were saying things that are negative it builds up and when you don't respond as a women respond that way but i don't they don't know why i don't mess that violence is on the rise so why would it be on the rise i mean as a woman i might think well i'm sorry should i change would it be better if i got  respond back what you did was went along with what he said you're now trying to please him instead of saying no i don't look fat in this outfit i look fabulous in this outfit so that's why me and what is a good response now we're obviously not looking to blame victims right so help us understand who are we addressing today what is your trying to do we are addressing the men the men who are perpetrating this violence upon women i say to the man first of all think before you say a word understand when you are with someone you go with someone into a relationship in a loving fashion if you're not there to be loving and respectful why are you there and ask yourself the that man maybe subconsciously they're looking to be controlling to make themselves feel more powerful but they're not going to say that but they should ask themselves why am i trying to control her why should i attack her if i have issues maybe i should look within myself but who really does that i mean when you have when you as a pro officer with these men admit to thinking this way no in this is what landed them in prison now they're sitting and talking with me at the time that i was a parole officer and these are the questions that i would ask i would say so why did you address her that way and what would they say the stupidest things i want to hear give me some examples of them like when i was having a rough day at work and i didn't feel like me a mother so wait how would not being bothered lend itself to pointing some kind of aggression starting out verbal i like you look you don't look so great now i want to lose thirty pounds like how does it get to that level how does it get to the level that the man is now saying that to them right well because he's not looking at himself introspectively we're not talking to children here we're talking to grown men who decide to enter into a relationship with their partner and when you do that you didn't go into think about this what if that minute said to that woman would be the first day i met you oh you look fat in that outfit well i said i would say we're not going to be in that relationship when the win stay around right so why would they stay around when this is happening again this is not only mean the woman this is the man if you don't see it or you wouldn't say it to her at the beginning of the relationship what would you say it when you're in  relationship but i think that perhaps that they are gambling that the woman's love for him would make her more susceptible to going along with it and sticking it through and maybe there's financial dependence and he once he's controlling the on me how about the fact that they feel entitled once there is a dependency established yes they feel the entitlement because they're in charge the woman be nothing without them so they feel that they could do whatever i can say whatever and i can do whatever and because if they are around my house my castle right you'll deal with them or else absolutely i can to hold you from yours when i as a business owner i was on the grind on the host every day every day because i don't want to sound like because of all the people watching i don't want all the women who have had this happen to them to think that they're always the one who did something to make it happen because i know there are circumstances where that's not the case ninety nine percent of the time it's not the woman that did anything know what i mean is you just said that i came home cut the grass not see god did it suddenly to cut the grass but the way i heard it was why are you bothering me when i've been out trying to make money to feed the family the grass can wait what if she never said a word what if she's not even home for example and he decides to get angry throw something break something smashes something and she was even home to say a word to him what c that cause again the man is feeling pressured you talked about i've seen your shows and you've talked about suicide rates yes suicide rates are high because the man is having issues in he is so pri my price for me i don't want to talk about my issues i don't want to share them and no one can handle that much tension no one can handle that much stress it builds up in you and the less likely target those likely target i think is whoever is closest to you yes the woman yes and the children yes and it makes them feel self love so if they're feeling pressure and they're feeling beaten down by the life right perhaps the way they build themselves up is to beat someone else down right what it feels like i'm not helpless if i'm hitting you i'm not helpless because life is beating me down so if i take it out on my family i'm still i'm still a man i'm still strong but i know you're not a man you're weak so how do we address men to help them understand as if they keep up this pattern you not only is it obviously a horrific thing to do the people you're supposed to love right but it could land you in jail and worse yes conversation you know people used to say like money is the root of all evil that's just a bad way to change your brain of course or you say you know most most marriages end because financial issues no most marriages in because of a lack of communication now how does communication or lack thereof lend itself to more domestic violence way here to address domestic i can't talk to you and i'm building up stress i can't get it out i get it out the best way i know how and that's through my hands and sort of through my voice now obviously i'm always curious about what does one person do to facilitate the other person's reaction so we can have what does a woman do or not do to facilitate the man's reaction becoming violent ok and i was saying to you just a second ago what happens if the woman is not even home not even  i heard so not too long ago somebody was talking to me and now remember for a living for over nine years i go into people's homes right and stop foreclosures i thought there were three hundred fifty families prevent them from literally losing their homes to foreclosure right would you like to know how many people i walk into a home and i just felt the tension in the air and it just i knew for a fact just felt it had many homes like that were in a domestic violence situation i knew by the interaction the sense of how the the people behave towards one another absolutely how one was dominating the other right and so there has to be some overlay so like for example like the woman's out of the store hypothetically and she comes home the man broke is that the kind of thing that should be done and yes was this broken why did you break this because now i'm asking you not a yes or no question i'm asking you an interactor tory question but i mean isn't that something  physically at thing out that man is physically acting out the groundwork was never sent is what i'm telling you is it too late to fix that it it's pretty much too late my wife and i've been married twenty seven years  rare never put my hands on even when going through the tension of being a law enforcement officer the tension of being in the business world never put my whole office and i was about as well doing a good job never put my hands on and i would tell her all the time because i talk about my day and i'd say honey you'd never start when you see it by the time the police are all it's your house it's too late so if i say if i say something to my wife now after twenty seven years of marriage well maybe there are men who would and by the time it's gotten to that man put his hands on you that's what i'm telling you it's too late and the thing is most women want to try to salvage it it's not too late i know he loves me i know he loves me he loves me because he siri to me when we first got together everything was beautiful but wait wait wait walk walk to where you want to now live in the moment don't continue to live where you first met in the market you before i got it i got to stop you know ok i would like to know what happens when there is a cycle it's violence there's angry there's yelling there's what about the situation where he's putting her down why aren't you making more money how could you that you must be some kind of a loser that you're not making more money what you get forth what is the term of domestic violence is that always have to be with there's physical hitting involved or choking or something physical interaction or is it still can considered domestic violence if someone's breaking things ok if they're breaking furniture or if they're breaking objects or if they're throwing things is that still considered violence it is violence but according to laws and you know each township each state have different laws pertaining to domestic violence breaking things is not necessarily considered like that like you give a situation where the woman was in the home of the man is gone he broke something yet not domestic violence goes who was there to be her right but here's my question what if they have children issue ok but children run a home that says she goes out to the store with a bank or what have the allowance the kids are upstairs maybe it's evening and they're sleeping or playing in the rooms and they're not hypothetically let's say they're not even in the room that's the message but they can hear it because don't tell someone breaks like a table or class or something right without a the accompaniment of yelling or cursing or whatever that makes them have the angry sound of them being upset right i found that very hard to believe yet so they  probably breaking something while cursing under their breath or cursing out loud or yelling or some kind of angry sound to the effect yes and the kids can hear it that's the mistake that's that's my question that's the answer that's the so is your best suggestion to any family in that situation because once they're kids there's a family it's not just a couple salute is your best suggestion after as a professional yes to just get divorced and stop the behavior i would always say  experiencing it they should be in counseling with you but what if the man's not willing i don't have a problem i did she lying if i did she what's not abuse is the time to go that's the main question because someone you you can go in move out it's been there are shelters out there there are counselors out there i would not suggest a woman stay in a relationship where she's in it by herself ok now i heard some of the following in the news where i was a little for a former law enforcement officer i need to ask the following actually heard that if a woman stays in an abusive relationship where there is children and she did not leave she can be  if you're not scared enough for yourself you're not scared not for your children right if you stay you can be you can also go to jail yes you can and the children what happened in foster care go into the system they go into the system or so now there  way that man gets custody well that's even worse yes because now these children could be potentially not just victims object of activity even if they're not the ones who hit let's say that man never got around to hitting the children right and let's say best case scenario i mean they've even had the woman he just is doing the violent acts of throwing things around breaking things and things of that nature which you just finished saying is still domestic violence that the children overheard  they even if they weren't even in the same roof they are there if they're in the same house and can experience it by hearing if they can feel that tension that's still the message while they are yet clarify that everyone that i've encountered believe that it's only violence if they're grabbed if they're cioppino if they're hit empty handed fist whatever it may be that's not the only form of domestic violence and this is where the laws in this is where i employ women to go get involved in what's going on in your state legislature find out what's going on with the laws don't let it be to the if degree before you now want to stand up and be an advocate we change the laws as citizens of this country we make them we can change them i implore every woman to get involved with what's going on in her community find out what the laws are it's ok if you have a group of women together contact a law enforcement officer have them come out and talk contact an attorney and have them come out and talk to you they will tell you things that would be to your benefit now if you're talking about getting spoken with some counseling and expertise and if the man's out willing to take part in family counseling right then you just to say first thing to do was leave the safest thing to sleep ok now if somebody feels that you're trapped because they don't have money and they're feel that it's more detrimental to their kids are there any kind of free hotlines that they can talk to someone what happens if they just call the local police can the police give them some kind of reference a lot of police stations they are communal like in the community policing type things they are in contact with many victims of domestic violence and so i would think what if a woman really doesn't want her husband arrested she wants help but she doesn't want to tell it either someone him the go to jail right what about give her that right yes yes i am now would love to hear a little bit more s peek into when you're a pro law officer and what else for the man saying i will always want to hear what is it that the man who perpetrated these things what were they saying this is the thing that would shock you you would be thinking that it would be earth shaking of why they did what they did just a rough day i felt like beating her up or throwing they feel like i'm there up i had a rough day and i came in and she just kind of touched the nerve but what if she wasn't there to touch a nerve or what if she didn't say a word if he's again of doesn't just happen like i'm starting a violent the builds up it builds up so if i come in like there was a statistic when i was a law enforcement right a lot of law enforcement officers would male law enforcement officers and they may not want to say this or believe this but would have affairs why would they have affairs because there is a leave before they do that no they don't want to bring that stuff home and the only person they could talk to was another law enforcement officer so the law enforcement officers male and female have the fear absolutely cause that's a lot of stress a lot of stress a lot of pressure they were more afraid of going to jail so it's not like they went home and beat up their wives this is the way that they would talk to somebody everybody wants to talk but nobody's saying anything so you're saying the best thing to prevent everything and keep some harmony is be a good sounding board yes listen to them not just listen but address things and start doing it early on within himself and become introspective and say this is my family i love my family nothing is more important in my family so i treasure my family i'm not going to abuse my family because abuse in my family big look up to me they depend on me i'm their rock and since i'm their rock i'm supposed to be there by their their keir i provide love ice provide stability take that responsibility to heart don't look at your wife as an image object that you can hurt or harm your children don't look at them as objects look at them as that's your offspring that what you're saying but it's not doing it consciously sometimes not looking at their child thinking you're my object to dominate listen what if it just comes act out of character again you say that by the time you get to the point that you're acting out of character this has built up for some time and it didn't just happen that man i'm just going to walk in the house i marry you today and tomorrow i come in and start slapping you if that's the case this was already there leave tomorrow leave tonight don't stay but normally it's a situation that builds up over time over time until it gets to the point where i push you i know you and you don't see anything now very easy fix let's say those women the women who are watching this show yes and there might be very cautious and trepidation son approaching the man is there anything the women can do to that they are more empowered and you know the person he was a weaker person he was a stronger person specially think when it comes to money don't you think but i've heard so many times that women who are now a little bit more numbers making sometimes when the  men flip flopped a little bit a little way i think that sometimes in a man wants to feel like well you make more money than me in the me regain my manliness by showing dominance yes when i don't make as much as you know for whatever reason yes some of the or even if that's in they experienced domestic violence there so it carried on to them because this was a coping mechanism for them says the same sister yes this is the way we understood how to address it how to handle it so it became generational money making money more than making more money than men make and when you feel like you are strong you don't put up with nonsense you don't put up with nonsense a lot of it is personality within that put it within the man or the woman it's a whole thing now i know that the last thing want to do is blame the victim right but you know we have to be very cautious right to do that but you have to be real and say you're involved in that relationship now if you don't say anything or address anything when these things happen you're basically enabling it ok that is a great place you if any type of violence navan if it's not a direct hit a grab a threat a choke even if it's throwing things call for help don't deal with it because remember if there's children even if they're not being hit directly if they just