ringback hello my name is patricia amanda and i'm the director of alternatives to incarceration and family services program at the fortune society welcome to both sides of the bars a discussion driven show that examines the legal system from various perspectives including people most impacted by the system we discuss critical questions about the current system operates momentum for change within social justice movements and the impact these issues have on the lives of everyone that they affect we ask you the viewers to spread the word about both sides of the bars and share your comments about today's episode with us on twitter using at the fortune s o c today show is titled back to school the challenges of parenting posts and carcer ration the incarceration of an individual effects people who are often referred to as hidden victims people impacted but really considered when sentences are imposed and received little to no support from the criminal justice system that uproots their lives people like the child of a parent sentence or incarceration partisan spouses family members biological or not and communities devastated by mass incarceration all the experience the impact the pain the harm and the trauma more than two million seven hundred thousand children in the us currently have an incarcerated parent and ten million children experience this at some point in their lives one and nine african american children the united states have an incarcerated parents approximately half of the children experiencing parental she previously served as a substitute judge for the juvenile court semester coalitions court and general just the courts of virginia for over ten years she has been recognized for her efforts experience and success by numerous organizations notably being named one of the top one hundred trial attorneys in virginia thank you for joining us welcome to the show thank you very much parental incarceration is now recognized as an adverse childhood experience is the sting which from other adverse childhood experiences by the unique combination of trauma shame and stigma it is critical as back to school season approaches we equip ourselves with the knowledge and skills necessary to support children parents and co parents and families that have experienced incarceration not just as practitioners but as community members neighbors and fellow parents during your practice representing you with challenges with their rights as to custody visitation and you know making decisions on the child's welfare it can be confusing because sometimes the kids think the lack of you know the absence of the father the father  mother can actually be a lack of love how do you think the current larsen reinforce these issues traumatic experience that's not the solution then there's not the answer for them that the most help you but they will try to terminate them so that they can move them on to a different family for their wedding and i thought that caused more problems later on because then when the parents do come home they have to go through all these hoops and they don't know what to do to gain their parental rights back or to appeal and so then what happens to them at that point  society to be able to say you know what let's let's figure out how we can provide some opportunities for success because at the end of the day we can make these individuals were coming from prison or jail give them opportunities for success such as finding housing finding a job we name them with their families then them one best in the community and the communities invested in them now we have a chance for real success rather than one of these barriers where we're saying let's see how many different ways we can help you of career creating that bond and building that bomb with the parents at the co parent and the child consists of paying those arrears so i feel like it adds more stress to situations that they're already dealing with and clinician i know that you know that some of the challenges that they come to us with them they say listen you know i have all these things going on and i have no time to invest in all these other things i need to do and i feel like the systems against them opposed to trying to help them you know so then we're on that and trying to give them that motivation you know and to help them as an attorney what advice would you offer i recently sparing to that has not established custody or visitation rights i think the best advice i could give them is to treat that role almost as if the they're going to lunch at a buffet they can't put everything on a plate because it's just on the line you don't appreciate the experience just take a little bit at a time of sabotaging one another's role with the child but if you have a supportive of now and that's going to start making it a little bit easier for the child to trust the visually returned incarcerated parents then build in the relationship with the kid where the kid is you have to meet them there because they're going to go through their own plan of trying to build this relationship with this family now is just returning to their lives they don't know a lot of what was going on they don't know the situation was in prison they don't know anything other than but making it manageable bite so that the child also can comprehend what's going on and be able to do it on their terms rather than just trying to do the walk on hold because it just may be too much for the kids themselves to be able to handle as and may know the you know why they haven't been around how does a parent overcome that that bias the hardest part really is doing what you just said is how do you overcome that challenge with people know your background and never known the whole story is just dying the best facts right so if you have a parent who is doesn't want to be involved in that child's life very sweetly they go to the school and they say are the primary caretaker and that there should not be school to use a nd parent if there are some concerns about the child's development or eight years because now you have another person on your team who could be in for what they need the child to do to be in a better place so getting by as hard especially education something to be able to allow them to improve as you understand them they are and that they should not be identified by their worst day but then by the afternoon they're given to make things better for themselves if we include him in that class  that i don't want to take my child to the presidents of the jail because that's not the kind of environment i want my child and so i feel that there's also another wall that's there as far as children visiting other  parents and that's a valid concern though you know there are some prisons that milf and an adult shouldn't be going to this somebody because they're just not you know appropriate but they are in the facilities were a child can be safe and come into an environment encourage that because there's no way that a healthy relationship is going to survive if there's no contact right back to school season apart what advice can you offer our audience members don't forget d's hold the school to task i would like to meet with you the school to understand where my child this and what is being done to accomplish serve them so as much as you can be the squeaky wheel when it comes to you being an added to your kid are all part of that community and the more successful everyone is more successful everyone is in and then we share in the successes and we can build on that so that would be my recommendation is please be there for somebody and if you need somebody healthy right and that some kind of struggle where asking for help so that's a big thing what advice would you offer to other attorneys working with children who have incarcerated parents focused on the value of family even imperfect them with you know we all know somebody who's been adopted a move never have met their parents and they have a boy or that they're so can you imagine how much worse it is if they actually and what would you say to the call parents that struggle with doing that holding grudges or just anger between them and the parent other parent which the child gets involved that's in the middle of it i used to as a perfect parent so just be a real one if you are interested in finding out more about the fortune society please visit our website i fortune's decided that or on facebook by typing the fortune society this is potential mantra and i appreciate you joining us as we critically look at both sides of the bars