to go to run with will i'm roger robinson and will sanchez has asked me to host this session because of my interest in the history of running and also in ways in which running has made history in a large way than just within the sport and the reason for that is as our guest today vince and kip better has contributed to both of those kinds of history if the name of the incident your pet is not that familiar to you you've certainly been affected by things that he has contributed to the sport if you run the new york city marathon you've been affected by the man who effectively created it if you run a new york opportunities for when running were running as if you're interested in the wider culture of running the books the films then vincent cupid has contributed in that too and that's actually where i want to start today because this old has surprised us in many ways never more so than just recently when he's produced a book and the book instead of being perhaps the memoir of a lifetime in running that we might have expected is in fact a book of poems a book of poems and drawings sketches artwork images that vincent himself has created  like to give us an example my stomach gels is a part of tragedies defaced upon my heart my head on my thigh chin to feel the sight of a dog and no panting underfoot he stands i somebody who is taking running is a is a subject for for poetry and for saying something significant which is not just about describing the sport but does but describing a human reaction to human tragedy  going on around you let's take him back to something more like the beginning because that's a very good q and a that you did a very significant figure in in in running i got a couple a couple of people who said showed up in my town westport for ten run the road races we were as it were on the fringes of society and then this is what i wanted to get to and you just did it perfectly well the most significant things that happened in the history of running was you guys move running into the center the parks apartment now and then about running i just started i said ok would you do me a favor would you go to the products commissioner and ask for a me call it new york new york city marathon or something like that uses why should i do that i said because nobody in order to i know we don't know any millionaires who they don't know that so we just talk about money the journalists at report claimed that the women had all collapsed in fact when you look at the footage only one woman fell over that's a different story of a metal that on where right before birth this whole kind of conspiracy to agree that we were incapable of running distance enough to harvest it was just amazing just just how the journalists kind of united and saying things like a little richard within was one headline when in fact they're already nine warrant called the front runner and in my book running in literature i referred to it like this i said it was one of the one of the best double not the best novel by woman writer war on the front runner nine hundred and seventy four is runnings best love story it doesn't let that sink in because then the something different happens in the next and the passion is done the love between an whole complex of phobias and exclusion tactics provoked by success for gays in sports in that era now you need professional patricia no one and you know the story of this book