yeah welcome welcome very much to conversation we got a program here we're producing it with skype with our good friend jim fred picture will be known to many of the people in the audience now he's up you know he's moving around apparently i thought he was up in duluth i had you pegged as being in the same town the bobby dylan came out of and so forth good apparently you're on the move a moving target is hard to hit and i'll bet you've got a number of people who would like to hit you with a great big bow and arrow or something is back when we had the great pleasure yes bob dylan came from don't lose now it's best known for the don't lose trading company which as he's unbelievable commercials on television i don't know that at all i don't know that thing but i there's a couple things on television that doesn't seem worth viewing to me and you had a very good hand in pointing out a lot of the things that probably could have been cleaned up the been printed over our media to the population that ought to be reexamined and  tightened up in terms of veracity in many many quarters or you're right you're right here although after a thirty five year career of offering courses principle in logic critical thinking and scientific reasoning i retired in two thousand the fact is that the american people have become the audience for the world's greatest political theater which is being conducted by the political parties in this case primarily the democratic party taking advantage something if i get you running out of you running off a lot of things and everything like that are there any sources of good guys in the world or is the whole world sadly human political and actual bad guys by your lights in that they had nobody is able to cotton to or cause it to cuddle up to what is the real fate of humanity on this statement astride the world stage and close behind him if only he followed through on his commitments to improve relations with russia is a bully even or not donald trump who apart from his mismanagement of foreign potential to be a new broom sweeping claim and when he promised to get us out of the middle east and move to restart our america i thought that was the right answer to the right problem studies by the university of minnesota at boston university by the way of showing that was that he had who his success in his contest with hillary well where were all counties in pennsylvania interestingly michael moore even predicted this would happen because hillary was neglecting those very states and indeed she never even came to wisconsin where i moved after that thirty five year career concluded in recorded in this program for what's called public access in new york city and the world and i would venture to say that most all of the programming that goes on public access is what would be called left wing almost without exception and you're celebrating in a certain sense the personage of mr trump which a good deal of the left wing who has been part of what's been called the progressive movement is very very suspect in fact the waiting for mr mueller to come forth and mr what's his name out of california saying it's time for impeachment of our president what i want to ask you is there any time in the past you have such a a favorable relationship to a major leader of the world society politically economically intellectually and so forth as to give a thumbs up to mr trump has there ever been anybody in the leadership development of the world society intellect pillar of acceptance and celebrating doing to the things that came after you gave that kind of an accolade to anybody in the past at all and that includes jesus well a lifetime  inventory made a difference to the world you've done very very well in pointing out that there are a lot of people who are being celebrated by intellectuals and opinion speakers and media people and so for th eir acumen and their ability to have an understanding of you know foreign policy and things that are up for grabs as it were and so forth who do you think there is now outside of mr trump he's and he's showing the deep state maybe you can explain that to some of the people who are upset with him and are thinking that they may be heading for a an impeachment of the man in the name of his facing or his representing a fascist movement similar to mr moods illini and his cousin mr radio but this is a profound misunderstanding physically impossible for those buildings to have collapsed the very modest fires that remain were trivial and then significant it was done with a sophisticated arranged by the minute or micro new sense of very complex you have to ask you benefits not night allotment was orchestrated in order to draw the united states and the endless wars in the middle waste of take out the modern arab states that serve as a counterbalance to israel's domination of the region and eventually to confront the persian nation of iran it would have been an act of late success but for the intervention of russia and iran on behalf of syria at the request of the syrian government the united states has derived no benefit it's squandered vast resources trillions of dollars of thousands of lives not to mention the millions of arabs who have died in this contest all to benefit israel i'm sorry to say harold that case for information he lays all intelligence should be shared everything should be open we constructed a memorandum series twenty eight memorandum from twenty seven experts on nine hundred and eleven for the president of the united states you they were loaded with us best as they were actually under a directive from the port authority to remove the us best as it could be done by a classic controlled demolition because all that us best us another toxic particles would have been exposed go ha prohibitively expensive estimated as much as a one billion dollars apiece but they have a terrorist attack that conveniently brings about the demolition of these buildings beyond his control directionally as we of god was incredibly convenient yeah and it just justified you know by the fabricated quite a bit was perpetrated by nineteen islamic terrorists control of a guy off in a cave in afghanistan there ever were there ever a good leadership element in a political system and also how do you you're talking about israel and then you're talking about the muslim world and there seems to be this idea of the twelth  mom and there also seems to be a group of people in their journey in a judaic tradition called new tour card who are very much against the establishment of the state of israel which is a burning point of a  whole human evolutionary process after two hundred thousand years of our exist since it's coming to an end time of qualitative transformation like punctuated equilibrium and evolution and we're coming to that but th that is not to happen that is not to happen in terms of israel or anything of that sort until the moshiach the moshiach has not appeared as far as we know in the judaic tradition and also in the  particularly in the iranian variants or islam they also have the idea of in the th the mom that's a period of the appearance of a global leader of spiritual importance and political reality that is able to ashur in with the leadership of that person the new my new order of things transcending our two hundred thousand years soldiering on this planet do you think we're going through anything like that when we've got weapons that are not well just summarize this sentiment do you think the weapons systems that have evolved as a means of asserting political power throughout all of history have finally reached a point particularly those in the hands of the united states of america that if they are to be unleashed would mean the end of a homosapien species is that only baloney or is that an actual geopolitical reality the exist that has never existed until just yesterday of intelligence are human see only animals with minds and the other render odd to darwin about that the religious right said tack on science here yeah i just say that our  is that armageddon in its capability if we could have done it in the nd world war we couldn't have done it a couple of decades ago at the now we've come to a point where that is in fact the thank you reality we now can wipe out the solemn agreements signed these are the most serious treaties and to which we have ever entered and now of course the russians are quite alarmed by the why some and all of these missile systems all their border ostensibly watch it about four hundred dollars times i think something like that it was just absolutely incredible film and the media can be very important in doing all of that but one gets around if i heard you right and you're saying you're talking about it many many large themes and i respect tremendously your ability and so forth but i heard you say there i thought that mr trump might have some problems of his own and yet you still say that he's the one who we might repaired to to get a sense of reality that is a realistic but he is also indicates he can be a case can be made that he is a danger at that level of unleashing the weapons of mass destruction with egocentric notion of thing it's  to scientists is exposing the fake news media in fact they are going to bananas because of the development of the alternative media through the internet they were never seriously challenged until now which is why this social media giants google you tube facebook twitter are cracking down some seriously on conservative voices and on conspiracy raise search because it puts the systems of such a sensually human slavery that has been done in order to build up the human artifice and so forth that there's never been just there's never been a real just order it's always been a few people at the top in charge of everything and they've not been able to be in an era where there can be the hope of there being as an adverse side to the destructive scenario of the atomic weaponry there's a capability through the technology finally all to be able to live the life of an a staff of a civilized and maximally engaged population rather than a fundamentally unjust one which is always just favored a few people at the top and continues in terms of the broad structure human society now well if you're looking for a distributive just as you're going to find very little of it the world profit what major problems of course is all over population but it ought to be done in a humane voluntary way that's why i don't regard family planning birth control to be among the most of what relevance of human life but today i would have been a very upset if i believed that this larger cut collective capability of providing light support with systems that can provide a way and material reality where everybody in the world can become on their own terms a what is called they have it's never been the only people that could be i haven't the council on the you were the few and that still holds in terms of the per the holdover from history are we transcending perhaps material off it was using the oil resources of libya to benefit the libyan people it was provided national health care national public education national warehouses stock full of food if you had a medical problem it could be  not dealt with in libya he ply you in a friend or relative anywhere in the world all expense paid by the government you have to trade but he was also introducing the gold dinar which would rapidly become the currency of all obey africa treated such as the black the american indians and so forth that he had a pattern in when he came to power for it out of her its worth they had a six percent literacy rate in about twenty years  became ninety eight percent boys and girls all in school all educated and he also had a way of forming capital in which if you started a private there's always been a dispute between private private prop property the private sector and the public sector in terms of government and business and so forth in his country he wasn't against doing away with the private sector like a lot of socialists would want to do a lot of leftists would want to do away with the you know the the the people who are at the top there's still only a handful of people alone all the assets and the benefits of the economic order but he set it up to where you could start a business in bolivia he wasn't against doing he didn't want to do away with the private sector at all in fact he encouraged it and you could start a business there and the one rule this is funny that one rule he and i went to factories and things like that if you could set up you could start a factory and you could not pay wages you couldn't pay any wages the way some distribution of buying power to the people is bice giving them a wage forward is like a serf like relationship to the leadership development of the old order and so forth but you couldn't do that you had to make them be the owners of the capital asset underpinnings to that corporate structure you understand and yet still that's a still a challenge that we have not come up with a way to get a sense of economic justice based upon the economic production of our of our extended technological capability in the corporate sector do you think there's any way in which any in for that the treatment by some people jesus christ and also you know spartacus and other people who have claimed to be have something that was really threatening to the political support of the of the leadership element is your that is not up to date with what they need and not to have anything come along is going to challenge their basic premise for having their leadership role on question by anybody yes yes  sure that's the situation that we're in now so we're back to the original question i tried to ask you probably are you thinking there could be a opposing system of understanding of how we're going to organize for capital organize distribution of buying power organizing stripped institutions for establishing a just economic order for all women children and for all that is unparalleled by anything in history and we can't find something out of history we're looking for something new as in punctuated equilibrium in terms of evolutionary process you get to assert we've been here two hundred thousand years and that's ten thousand generations and about time for there to be a qualitative not a quantitative little change of the chess players out of history but a qualitative transformation which could be something a liberated way for a maximally engaged massive human compared participation along with the environmental context which is required for that to be achieved we came into that period is not just another moment in history it's collective from which were attempting to awaken we are awakening to a new way non scarcity as an ontological understanding of our capability rather than scarcity where all our institutions are based upon and the fighting over scarce resources who gets through you know get the major part of the the booty and we need something new and we don't have it coming well obama i mean could after he had a little bit of four point why yeah these are facts of the matter that the great left is not willing to acknowledge well maybe it might there could have been things like that that comes out of other phases in history of a temporary nature and so forth through that yeah but what i'm saying is that you she's involved in the abortion industry jamia been worried that roe v wade would be undermined which right of her is not the case nor did susan collins but these escalating sequence of we're not paying attention to the fact are we at a time of qualitative prions from a shrink which makes possible something that the historical pattern and comparing to various people have argued about how many men can fit on the end of a pin and all those kind of arguments were made by people who were various leave vested in the economic order better than somebody else doing it the same old argument from going on for two hundred thousand years and it doesn't seem to ever be brought up is there something new there a way in which you could be forming capital is there a way in which we could be having a genuinely liberated order rather than one that is based upon inherently and absolutely necessary for wonder when somebody else has and that's been the history of the whole thing can't we get at something that is going to bring a system that is going to make it so everybody can win on their own terms in a way that's never been available to us by our extended technological capability is that the case or are we doomed maybe to fight each other to the point where we'll finally unleash the weapons and practice it all in for this planet guess but but i seem to have to the right order it's all piecemeal here all right i know that's what i'm trying to get out of the larger our context rather than the piecemeal argument of what we all do in the same way we've been arguing over two hundred thousand years of human history we haven't got a vision we've had some momo market out the actually offered something new thomas jefferson all ordered something new to feudalism that have been there for a one thousand years and yet rome and europe it was something new so they can have bombed washington eight hundred and twelve because they were pissed that we didn't stand up to their one hundred standing of history when something new it was called democracy in the new world we need something new now in our leadership is not providing intellectual whole it's never been just it's always been a few ruling everything everybody else king knights and so forth but now we're in a time of qualitative transformation that is totally unique and it should be some intellectually understand how do we get past the zero sum thinking eight limited resources that's the thing that's the thing that's held in fact and forces back into the same old nostrums that we've had to detachment of most american families from decisions of war and peace well as long as we had the draft american families cared about these the sessions because they knew their own family their daughters and sons might have to pay a price  it in a war but now that they can let others do it because i'm a volunteer military they don't longer care and the executive is acquire far too much power in making decisions about engagements for you are you optimistic or pessimistic i'm of an opinion that we live in unusual times are not normal times history is a nightmare of injustice there's never been real justice in all of you human or evolution or history and there's something new needed and we appeared out of evolution two hundred thousand years ago that was a very long run we've had as a species we're coming into a time of qualitative transformation that could be were instead of it being in just foreign just is able to tap the poor capability of the other liberated humanity that will give a res going through a moment it's not just like the st world war the nd world war civil war or rome it's something that is new is called for and i wonder if there's any chance that we can come up with that from our intellectual how we're going to form capital how are we go distribute buying power to the masses of people to get the you know the good living re things that can be produced by our technological capability which is just placing labor in the productive process you know how are you going to get buying power into the  of the world citizenry to clear the market of the great things that might be able to reproduced in an ecologically appropriate order which we now have the capability of doing which we haven't had trying to get the basis for a possible rosy picture of the tri dent in the american fleet that is a major threat and you could tap and atomic energy in order to get electronic develop electric development you wouldn't have to go to all kinds of other things becoming increasingly technological it's all owned by a tiny plutocratic class that fight each other over who gets the and we've got to have something where that can be productive capability and growth that has to be  doing that mr goodbar was doing yeah and look at the fate he had heard yeah that's right as the people at the switch in washington were not hard are i don't have a vision that i'm saying they ought to be having the world leadership ought to be problem illegal gun sort of problem there's truth to what you say sir you know there are a couple of problems i don't doubt that are i don't question that there's a couple of problems left coddle demonstrates as clearly as anyone could ask gun control laws whoa word as a lot of shouldn't go around there but listen one thing i have to say is i'm afraid we could go on talking for a long time and everything but i'm and to you and i personally out to be in touch over the time yes yes and share with us you've got to know read you've got all these books you're so right you write a book like i used to write a letter home to my mother you know you write books on you know they're all interesting and worth reading and so forth are you getting into multimedia are you getting into a way of distributing some of this up by television or and by all the media and the internet and so forth oh yes absolutely harold