to nonprofit new jersey where we talk about issues ideas and individuals impacting new jersey's nonprofit sector i'm your host david gray today my guest is someone very excited to be speaking with it's elizabeth williams reilly the president and c e o of the american conference on diversity welcome thank you glad to be here so diversity in the nonprofit sector we talk a good game about diversity our organizations like to claim that we serve diverse populations we really want our borders to be as diverse as the population of the state but it's not so simple as just having people who look different than us on a board get definitely is not that simple it's much more complex and i think whether the issue lies is how we define diversity ok and if we limit our scope to what we see visually and terms of race and gender and things that we can on the surface look at we don't have enough to go on so we broaden our definition of diversity in not limited to who we are take span and to what we've learned in terms of our backgrounds all work life experience geographic location family situations to what we've learned how we lead leadership styles what that means how we embrace leadership roles responsibility accountability and then how we interact what does that exchange that happens how do we then look at respecting each other what kind of environments do we create when we show up on a team what do we bring to the table in terms of contributions that broadens our intent and broader impact and also gives us more to look at well it sure does because one of the things that intrigues me you know when organizations are sort of trying desperately to to diversify you know we first start with those very visible thing exactly but we don't necessarily have an understanding of what does it mean to welcome someone in who doesn't have the same cultural background exactly and one of things i mean one thing that produces by the way for those who don't know this is a fantastic resource is they have a calendar calendar that meeting dates and then we you know get shocked if people are upset we've done it on a significant holiday in their name that way also what that calendar does is it gives people insights to really understand what people might need if you do have a diverse workforce and you're looking at days that people require off it helps you and gives you those guidelines and those helpful tips it gives you information about what it means for individuals so that you don't put people on the spot and you don't let ignorance always lead to a direction and we know that with the calendar of holidays and  it also shows people how much we focus on a christian dominated culture and so when we look at diversity have to look about we have to think about and understand those that we're not hearing the voices that are not heard the things that are accountable and and important  center in on someone's life that we don't pay attention to that calendar helps lift that out for folks you know if this were a very traditional corporate world where there's a very hierarchical structure i'm not to say that we don't care but the reality is the nonprofit sector you know we talk a good game about being more collectively managed more collaborative in our intent and yet i'm not sure the people i'm not sure they know what they don't know what we all don't know we don't know and i think that that why it's so important to seek out knowledge and education that's why the american comes to diversity focuses on educating people provide the knowledge skills and awareness and not for the sake of just know about how does that into action how does that translate to how we interact what we think about what we take into consideration because oftentimes it's more difficult to see those things that are not in your circle or your spirit influence and so when you're not thinking about those things they have to be brought to your attention in ways that are welcoming and thought and thought provoking and that entices you to take them in consideration so let's go back to beginning tell me a little bit about the programs how do you actually get out there and educate people on these issues the american comes into versity works with young people to adults and senior citizens actually so our programs basically are designed to come into any environment the custom design we do a full assessment of what your needs are we take a look at what the organization is their intent what is a strategy was the approach was lacking in terms of what they need in understanding around diversity and we design curriculum models it's highly experience will so as not lecture format you are engage fully so when we talk about this a patient we talk about fully participating where you bring your authentic self your life experiences your circumstances to the table to share them and to learn from each other so it's always an exchange around what we know and understand and you never walk in the same way you walk out well i'll tell you you know for some of us getting lectured  much more comfortable because one of the things that one of your staff members told me was that the training doesn't kind of feel like it's in gauging until people get uncomfortable well it depends on who that individual is that may have been their real life experience that but i promise you one of the things about our trainings is we do encourage people to lean into discomfort to not avoid that because what we focus on when we talk about a cycle of prejudice is that we look at early messages that are often taught to us by those who are nearest and  we would never think that our parents would tell us anything that would contradict our success or lead us to being prejudice or bias but when you find out as some of those messages that you learned in the way that you operated for so long maybe you want as been officials they could have been to you in your life and those that you interacted with that's a real challenge and it does cost some internal conflict and maybe cause you to rethink your whole life experience but that is uncomfortable well i mean one example and one of your staff was very very helpful in sharing with me an article by peggy macintosh's great title white privilege on packing the invisible knapsack i grew up here in princeton with all the advantages that people have here in princeton which of course we never thought of as being a bit as we're just not that's the way the world works and it would never occurred to me that i was not going to go to college and i wasn't going to be successful in something and in reading her article when you really sort of go into it with all the assumptions that are inherent in that upbringing which the rest of the world may not have and the fact that they don't doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with them so much as i don't have the sensitivity to what the other experience means or people to the work forms absolutely and so there's a level of discomfort reading about you know what what i assumed was normal but is in fact privilege so i mean i'm intrigued when wind when you work with younger folks in particular where there's so many messages they're growing up in a much more diverse world than i did is it as hard to get this message across as it was forty years ago i would have to say what is consistent is that the messages still are passed for so we tend to as human nature that's a part of how we are the lessons our parents taught we pay them forward and so the absence of those messages are not there yet some of those messages are still passed on from generation to generation so when you talk about when i was growing up some of the things i was exposed to their people to still live in very segregated communities right here in new jersey where their first experience in seeing a person of color outside of their community is when i get to college and so that reality still exists for a number of people and the lack of exposure still exists in terms of really being able to understand and know and interact with people on a very natural level and not just for you know being you know hello how you do it but really getting to know and understand that they have family values family life structures that may be similar or may be different and they can be respected that that that still is very prevalent and some when you talk about young people they still are getting some of those same messages and we get fifteen thousand messages a day not just from e mail either that they're coming from some place whether it's the media whether it's family teachers and we know that when there's when there's a lack of messaging or imagery around different groups and different individuals then there can be you can be fill and when people to have voids they fill in whatever with whatever they think should be there and often their biases and stereotypes that they receive those messages about so that's where our work is so important because we have to interrupt those cycles interrupt those messages and provide them with new realities and new information so the global of difficulty i'm not sure of that's measurable but the idea that is still still needed is very probably very real so you work with corporations i call  you we have an increased diversity in our workforce but frankly we're not dealing with a very well help me that that is some of the work that you do absolutely and is and i often times that cry for help is is one that is a knee jerk reaction and people are not really thought about how will they are utilizing was there and so diversity is one thing it's our gift is that collective i'm on a difference is that we have that richness of that but we move organizations further to think about inclusion which is not just everybody around the table it's the activation in the utilization of those differences and that's where they're really stopped because they have this place where they've invited people in but they don't know how to utilize that diversity and that's what we help and work with them  to do and we train individuals we provide consultations to those individuals that have the responsibility of moving forward with that chart so it does take time but we work on many levels whether it's the v p of diversity and inclusion or the president of the organization but we're working at multiple levels to make sure they really understand their diversity moves beyond just having the differences and inviting people in is the environment the culture that they create based on what their condition and norming and their environment taking advantage of the diversity exactly like the exactly and oftentimes what happens is when people look at themselves and say we don't have diversity and they feel that they've bought in the diversity they often look at that person as the expert to be the spokes person for everyone who looks like them thinks like them and then that becomes a place of intimidation or it becomes a place that is not very welcoming and people don't stay long so you have the recruitment process where the retention is not there and so you have to look at what is it that we i have because the versity is exists when you have whomever in the room but what will enhance that so that any time you're looking at diversity you don't negate what you are ready have but you look at the vision of enhancing it and that's really important for any nonprofit to really think about because what nonprofits do extremely well is they know their clients they understand who they're trying to reach their needs they have they have their finger on the pulse they really have a den of fire their core needs what that person an individual may be thinking they communicate they do assessments they do evaluations they do that extremely well but when you talk about broadening that to let others know whose background may be quite different from their constituents how to articulate that how to understand them and how to relate to that that becomes a lot more difficult now i find you are reminded of a phone call i had many years ago when i was involved in the dance organization a woman called me and said you know my my daughter's interest in dancing but i need to know is she going to the only black child in that class going to horrifying to deal with because i didn't want to be that organization but i also want to be dishonest to someone who's calling me clearly sense into an issue and it was were i open it to me about how we're not what we claim to be where are we what we claim to be or should we be more honest about who we are and the organizations call you at that moment and say elizabeth i'm stumped how do i change my culture absolutely get those calls where people want to know about changing culture and i think that's what really is key it is the changing of culture because all you know by definition what culture is is the practices in the policies and the norms that are stablish by a group of people in this conscious unconscious and so what happens is that same definition can be applied to a work force you may have unconsciously created this environment of shared value shared thoughts shared ideals that doesn't welcome anyone that thinks outside of that so you wide default have created a culture that you want to change and cultures do change based on their information based on the experiences and how they respond to them so when you talk about chang culture it's very easy to do if you willing to make those adjustments so then you're not making exceptions that all of a sudden this is the one time of the exception to the rule but it becomes an accommodation because you want everybody that walks through your door to have a really comfortable experience and just know different and you've got someone to dinner and you are a person that loves meat and you going to have five different meats on the menu but you're inviting vegetarians you make it that you have to make an adjustment to accommodate their needs to make sure that that individual that you've invited into your home has a wonderful experience that's actually an excellent example my brother in law who taught meditation and lived on and off from was a strict vegetarian and when he would come to visit my wife and i would panic and think oh my god we have to cook something that now the fact that three nights a week we have a pasta salad or what you know we don't think of it as being vegetarian and so when we think about it you know similarly oh now we have to think about the mercy never mind if you just behave the way that absolutely you know you were raised to be a normal healthy giving open person might be enough if you just keep that in mind one of the things that you guys are doing that really excites me is you're creating  a board bank and boards and i work with a lot of boards and every time i go to a board one of the issues always seems to be diversity you know we seem to have we don't have a wide enough constituency represented over morning tell me about the  organizations on both sides so we know that diversity in his best state of existence is complex and it requires us to be interested bindon on each other and so that's what this is looking at it's taking corporations who are seeking out placement for their their stack and employees to place them and could fulfill their civic duty and responsibility to non profits but we're looking at there's a deficit studies have shown that there's this deficit of people of color that serve on boards and we wonder what is going on and it's reflective of the number of people called it on higher management positions so we have to look at it differently we have to look at leadership in the pipeline different levels of management and leadership where happen corporations think differently about how they recruit individuals to serve on board and how those nonprofits welcome them on their boards so what is the dynamic and understand they need to know about diversity and inclusion before they even serve on the board what do you need to know and understand about diversity when you are dealing with clients and serving individuals that may be different and have different life experiences than your own how do you didn't develop that compassion to serve on that board so you so you're going to going to corporations offering to train folks who are interested in serving on boards absolutely as well as a nonprofit they want to serve with so so nonprofits will register absolutely how this works is not profits will register with us if they have an interest in joining the corporations then on that they're in well provide us with leaders that they feel will serve well in those roles on boards and they will tell us what types of organizations they're looking to serve on they will send up to six candidates but they pay to be a part of this because they support and back their financial their financial support backs the program so they will pay to have their corporate leaders go through this process we do somewhat of a matching but it's totally up to the nonprofit and the corporation whether or not they want to continue the relationship but in that process of nurturing that and cultivate never lay ship we provide training for both sides where they come together to understand clearly what the dimensions of diversity really mean how to utilize effectively the diversity that they have in this individual so that becomes a long term relationship and it's a win win for both sides so as a nonprofit if i call you it's not just a matter of oh elizabeth go look at a list give me a name tell me  no it's a much more engaged process absolutely is there is there a time frame or are they let's pause right now by the time they hear this message from you and i they can register call us on line let us know of their interest we will make sure they will be added to a list and as individuals become available they'll be they'll be matched up have opportunity to get to know one another before they actually commit to the leadership roles and see if it's something that so we do allow people to do that and they go to a much more comprehensive training so they understand how to effectively utilize their board members well that's fantastic because one of the things and i'm sure you've seen this is well is you know we seek out somebody we invite them to be on the board and then after they've jo either do their don't they have the skills and do we provide them the information that would actually back them good morning members exactly and did they really connect to the organization that they're serving you mean the fact that i play golf with them is not it's not enough and some this is it may be but when you look at long term service and commitment and compassion and empathy the an understanding of why you're there is more to discipline and to commitment because if it was just about money people to write checks and never have to serve on a board i wish i did but if we're in reality you would need that but this is really about the the way that people having care for the organization and the principles around what they're trying to do and that is reinvest in the success of the community and whatever way they feel is beneficial it has to be what's in it for me so people have to understand it is something that they're getting there is a mutually beneficial relationship well i can see where you know the nonprofit community would definitely be anxious to access this opportunity on the corporate side are you finding are the corporations as anxious as the nonprofits are yes they are because they are looking for opportunities to utilize the leadership that they have enough companies and also put them through opportunities of training and development and they also know that when they are better represented in communities and serve on boards their reputations their community civic duties are fill in a positions them for greater support from their constituents it is it is just a good way of doing business a utilizing their talents and skills that they have an organization and cultivating that and nourishing that so that they do take on more leadership roles and they do understand how to operate in different arenas and that they represent the company in very strong ways interesting well let me ask you the demographics of the country are changing and new jersey is certainly a very diverse state has that changed the nature of what diversity means i mean you don't some you know i'm not a particular fan of certain media that represents a certain viewpoint but you know if i were to listen to it i believe that very soon people who look like me will be a very small minority and i will represent diversity and they were quite there yet but question is are you seeing a different now that we have so many different you know ethnic religious and culture groups in the state what diversity means well you know the american conference on diversity has roots back to one nine hundred twenty seven our founding organization was the national cost of christians and jews but we were established in new jersey in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight so we're celebrating sixty five years and that that time the population is about four point one million now is eight point eight which is you know are more so then we're a growing community and we look drastically different we were three years out of war war and you know so really thinking about how that really has changed over the years diversity has existed among this state for a number of years has it changed demographically and where people are located in  absolutely but has a change of definition no what is done is challenged us and made us lift up more how much more we need to think about diversity and it has challenged us to to be more accountable to those who live here and in ways that if they're living here and call this home we need to be respectful and mindful of that and appreciate all that they contribute from their family life to their work life so it has really raised the bar of accountability for us as a state so let me ask you how did you get into this line of work you know i have a background in advertising and public relations so i knew earlier on that if you really wanted to make a difference or if you really wanted to reach  audience you needed to understand them ok and so what i had in terms of my limited scope of background where i grew up in and how i viewed the world had to be opened up so to me diverse and inclusion was my window to the world where i could see individuals learn i love people i love connecting to people so it gave me the opportunity to reinvent everything and rethink all those messages that i got about who i wasn't as an individual and about who someone else was so that it was a more  opportunity for me if the natural to me and i always believed the equity in justice and that because i was born i meant adult to live freely and to embrace fully that which life has to offer and because i desire that so does anyone else that i come in who are into these graduate nonprofit management courses might actually watch some of these interviews and what would you tell them about getting to where you are i mean when my favorite job interviews is when i asked somebody you know where they want to be in five years they said david i want your job and i agree that someone with embers so what would you tell someone who wants to end up where you are well you know i have acquired the level of success and being a presence you know before i turn thirty of before i turn forty so if you want to get to where i am you have to work hard but you have to know who you are be true to yourself be true to your authentic self because the more you're true to yourself the easy it makes it for you to learn about and respect other people because your personal journey your defining moment is  hold to be true for your life and the person is right across from you has the same thing going on so if that is true about what your experience and how you navigate through life is true for other people and so anything you want to achieve in life if you believe and know who you are and  comfortable in who you are in your own skin then you can achieve it it's worth it's worth it to know who you are and then to be open enough and know who you are with confort that you don't have to believe and buy into stereotypes you don't have to be limited by what other people think invision you to be you envision yourself and embrace it fully and work towards those goals that's how i've always lived that's what i was taught to do and i feel it is work but it's worked in my favor and i would courage anyone to do that because i've not had an easy journey around diversity african american woman who is overweight who has had to deal with a number of things and so getting in front of groups and talking about race and talking about appearance and talking about economics and talk about this is not an easy thing to do but it is is one of those things that i feel i am responsible for doing that is my calling that's what i believe and that's what makes it important for me so i always follow that follow that column for you but one of the things that future but do you think that you know folks with your background i mean there's still the opportunity to make that transition even though the even though we have these professionally trained nonprofit managers and the folks in the commercial world can make this transition successfully still i think that people can make transitions successfully but you have to remember that you know what is your intent because intent is not always equal impact and so you have a lot of people well good intentions of entering into the nonprofit world or transferring over into a corporate sector and they realize that the end packed in their life is what they bring today we don't necessarily fit and so you know you have to be careful about what your intentions are and then what you expect the impact to be and that's no different than when you talk about diverse than inclusion because when people say jokes they intend to bring laughter to a room and be you know be jovial but the impact would be to hurt someone and so that could be the same for your career your future if you think about it so you know the transitions you just have to be really thoughtful and mindful about what your intent is and what is the impact that you're expecting from that knows that we're almost out of time so tell me how do people find you how do people find organizations they can visit our website at american conference on diversity all one word all of that american god or ok and they can call our office any time that number is seven three two seven four five nine three three zero and there will be someone there willing to help you you can call us if you're interested in our training programs which we offer for young people and anything any consultations that you want for your workforce if you're thinking about the person inclusion you want to strategy about a year you know you're contemplating what you need to do your next steps call us we can help you think through that and then provide the services that you need to get you through your