taught at washington university and lehigh university born in chinese interested in contemporary issues about china especially its transition to a free market economy he has articles appeared in the st louis post genies the vice president of universe of communications network which involves if i understand your be able to stop me straight new tank television network that i guess is aired here on manhattan network i'm not mistaken but he's a computer and gentlemen welcome very very much to conversations man at network great pleasure to welcome you and i want if you could i sort of spelled it out a little bit but maybe we could start with you and then come over to samuel mary share a little of your own background personally to ankara and then we'll have a through the similar experience as i did i really found it very and shaking very exciting for the experience serve you well to teach the youth coming out of course they're going to bond yeah right but you teach business by and large  now it's broadened out much more what's the case in china is education open to the broad masses or is it a narrow track of selection in terms of only a few relative to the population that go on into university it is because china today if you do it suppressed age to go to college i remember i sing new york times to do reports countryside students cannot pay the tuition eighty dollars and they kill himself he'd kill himself for that so where position it competes with united states for the bragging rights to be the ending of the world development this theme time it also have to compete african countries to lived in terms of number of people it lifted out of poverty  so how would china reconcile between these two go would be something i mean to be seen there are huge developments going on in china the funds and so forth they're investing their dollars in china it's growing like mushroom i understand shanghai distorted picture is basic comparative numbers that we use in order to try to understand the world economy you know but how do you as an economy see that i think it's like democracy we about that game to think that they have a thing now everybody you won't know you're older i'm older so when you get to be forty or fifty years old you have a hard time reading it as you do universal almost now doesn't do that but it would tell you that you look like i pull it off but i would like to have yeah he's from and i'm from michigan which is from the from he has to deal with that yet thank you i mean he would like that but that but i had this thing the other day it was time new york time and just just an and now they could do that it takes three minutes robert but now what they're trying to do is filtered through a system where you have a what you call optometrist or somebody who's going to prescribe it for you and then they're going to try and charge a one thousand dollars for those three drops or those drops you for your eye and if you do charge a one thousand dollars to everybody then it adds to the growth domestic product and if you did it to everybody the nation would be improved add to the g d p and here i got a problem in terms of trying to get at what the reality is that is clouded by dependence upon these systems of g d p measurement of trying to get quantitative measurement on things and yeah economy has a lot of people pay attention pay attention to this issue as far as i know if you want to really know what's going on there need to look a little deeper yeah into the system yes as far as i know for example you they have   the government is engineering this kind of and devore to resuscitate state owned companies by point money into them japan i sync is more dictated by the market to force  china is it you can see the legacy off the command economy also if it ever central planning you know those money the money going to those companies will be a waste of resources but they have to do that just to propping them up they have to do it to prop up their own position politically yeah don't want to see people going on street you know homeless they have to do that you do have homeless and you do have all over course china poverty in the provinces yeah yeah and they've come out of a feudal about a similar thing going on as an olympics because chinese people men most of the done you know have the opportunity to go to the stadium to exercise in the parks gone communistic control of the heartland and there was this communist era so we had a bi lateral world of the communist nations against the capitalist nation and that that's when we fought in vietnam and that sort of thing and that we had all of that but oriented dialectical materialism hagel or whatever was involved to a country that had a huge transformative capability that had a five thousand year tradition of computers ism and buddhism and all kinds of traditions and everything but it was a tremendous shaking up of the economy as it were i mean of the of the whole the psychology of the country i suppose you young men were probably in dr crane educated in the dialectical materialism and that was like the religion of china that's right now it's what is it becoming now what's happening to china is there any remnants of all of the socialist thinking of marxist thinking in terms of a dielectric or have they simply abandoned that and you of course it is transition period for china yes and the thing is added nobody believes in thomas dawkins you know those people in the leadership i mean nobody did nobody nobody does now nobody does not beat did mistakes it takes of the next generation to do that because it's probably part of the chinese mentality if you did it maybe universal i mean in the human condition now you have people who are you have president impeached here you that it is not based on anything rude johnson in the civil war but but but i if i may if i may say if it so you had in a certain sense you had so much of humanity five thousand and sixty percent of humanity w seriously impacted by the idea of a mark i mean you had the soviet union no small matter you lenin stalin you had this then you had the mob saito you had china so that's a huge amount of them that was there and in their thinking those traditional ways of religion and these kind of things were just legends from the past everything is economically determined as dialectical materialism and they must have tried to indoctrinate you there and if you're going through a change the soviet union went through imploded so what union is going to be it's over you need a huge empire there were a rivalling the united states in terms of their power in terms of being that's what the whole cold hollowing imploded ukraine breaks away everything breaks away they've got a droste domestic product now that is something like netherlands they have fallen apart it's an oligarchy that controls everything they're falling apart the system is not worked they gave in on is you have to fix the most fundamental if you want to change a conduit if you want to get it to a pass to prosperity rather washington and russian people are experiencing is the necessary paints for that transition ok harvard they have the fundamental problem fixed they have hope what is going on in china is simply the exploitations of resources you know  upon accumulation of national commission on natural resources there is no actual or real product to vittie a boost of growth what happened is people just exploit natural warning how would that government be doing to do now to make the company to make the country you know better i don't want to go but it sounds to me like you're saying russia is on the right track suffering the things that to be sovereign having the oligarchy have the the stay away from that high but there was no way out what i was saying is russia russia is ahead of china in terms of real infrastructure change for a full capitalist economic system and the ideal for the world is full cap and so we have a system in place that is good for all the world and it's called free market laissez faire capitalism that is now in the saddle and that's what's going to become  of course these people they have their own you know stake in china and that was also their voice can be heard in those media all that and no doubt another thing these worrying to me is all those big media have chinese language publications  do you expect them to be you know forthcoming in the chinese reports i doubt ok we got to get that i'm trying to get it now you sam you you're involved in technology and involved in the computer science of that or what now that's not a small matter information right are you beginning to incubate leading edge contributions to that are people here in the country that think that the internet is a great intrusion in terms of a system that is in place that is not serving well the masses of the people or is it i've seen mr stiglitz of i mean to bring in and others through who says that the system is the international monetary fund all the bretton woods things in place that calls itself legitimate is serving about twenty percent of the population the plutocrats or their running dogs that run with the bluegrass who own and have all the power in all of the countries of the world is like a bunch of mafia dons fighting one another and it's only serving the for you ringback and we have as major gains we're reminded as we have technological displacement of human labor in the productive process coming in the assets all over the world either by a political fight one hundred times in china really becomes a crisis really is really what's going on here and now you've been to you so you go i asked you yeah there you go to china are you are you under threat by state authorities because you are talking about stealth or by p r or by pro pressure is something that they only if we get a very warped view by the networks of what's going on in iran i mean things don't come we just got this intelligence report this is a little more favor this shows the reality more we had the same place may not be and nothing to do is ask here you know that's not true and the internet is a global thing it's not it's everywhere so there are some local things that you understand that it's a big huge you fellows are younger and you take to me it's like some sort of a up give an example north korea is seen as a hermit kingdom united states because nobody knows going on what is going on inside you know if you regularly watch chinese language t v news program you found actually the luck of the coverage dud north korea you got this world run by a bunch of mafia don i mean they have to go here and they're fighting for territory and they're going to the other gangs and they're going to fight and like that and the people the did the danger is that inherently by the system what's going we have cybernetics coming norbert wiener we have cybernetics the possibility of cain said to his grandchildren the famous letters of grandchildren you're going to have not only outsourcing of things to capital and jobs to india or china or the displacement of labor in the productive process through economic through cybernetic process they're going to have software programs that can write software programs they're going to software programs that can do accounting creative accounting better than accountants they're going to be able to displace people in a world where all of the economic theory is based on a labor theory of value that the people are going to get income by that what they contribute and we've got a real problem confronting us so the downs who are running the world are getting nervous about do you think the dot the people running the world are getting nervous about there may be a stirring among the masses against the prerogatives of the few who live well and they don't have a system that's going to be able to bring the many up to a standard and that they're really getting nervous about the system itself being challenged by some sort of a massive uprising of folks against the dons who are running things and have been so what are you saying people know that you've got a real united states of america which is now the french go hyper power we have beat we have bases everywhere in the world where a hyper power bigger than rome bigger than anything like that and we are dislike vehemently but moreover the world everywhere over and control them when you can do through the financial mechanisms of controlling the world where you can send bases there to do it what are we doing i mean that's what i'm trying to say as what it is remember the old days of course proud of the old commie colonial that we backed away but now we're just neil colonialism we have the same kind of control operated by the people who own everything control everything the plutocrats and in every country got plutocrats you got a communist party in china communist party now oligarchy and russia you and is it making people nervous the saying is they're nervous and charter they're nervous what i'm saying here the system here not just a democrat republican thing the system that's in place is feeling nervous because they don't have a vision relative to what the planet needs and require social inequality yeah it's much much you know steve you're right most of you are in china here you are talking about a social problem but i it's always hard for china to see that problem probably it's not a very part of the correct for me to but for one magical evening we invite you to believe new tang dynasty television a global leader in chinese broadcasting and the voice of the global chinese community welcomes you to be we invite you to come celebrate and awaken this great or the lies within all of us we celebrate the chinese new year in grand style once again the two thousand and five new tang dynasty g between the east and the west in the mail material the war north and the south and everything like that we know that right are you all optimistic for the because these are really interesting times in all the fields and i really thank you for coming in it's been a pleasure for you to have the perceptions in m i five after jon lee and he's business is a business professor and an economist and accountant and he's at the suffolk university in boston and in my immediate left is sat dr samuel chow and he's a computer scientist and these are involved with the universe of communications and also they have a division of communicate television here in the united states called new tang dynasty dynasty and of its television which is carried here on him in among other places and is now reaching out to the world so gentlemen thank you very much for sharing your perceptions and for for helping to educate me and some of the others to the realities of