money moves the world and banking moves money welcome to the public bank solution conversations about an emerging new american institution a publicly owned partnership banks able to rebalance the scales of monetary control in service of the public interest and our common wealth brought to you by the public banking institute and its national association of partners and  kind of a funny name i suppose i wanted to ask the question well what are you trying to solve the public banks as you may or may not know are banks that are owned by the people typically by i mean it's a pallet eat or a state but in any event controlled by democratic interests and democratically elected or democratically chosen parties to serve the public interest as opposed to private banks which are the ones that we typically deal with and so the movement around the country to create public banks is big growing quite rapidly and there are now a couple of dozen states and cities that are considering creating their own public banks but have to come back to the question what problem are you trying to solve today we're going to talk about money which is the essential element of course in banking but it's the essential element of our economy that is the relational device the device that we use to create exchange which hit with each other and that also allows us to really act on our values and to create new prospects for the community at large but our current system the problem if you will  is that our money is issued from private interests at interest so that it always redounds to private benefit even though it does good things or in many cases not so good things along the way today we've got a very interesting discussion around that theme of what is the problem with our current monetary system and our money and our approach to monetary control and i'm very pleased to be able to welcome to the program is the head of practice of the foresight innovation lab and a professor of practice and innovation at stanford university's school of public policy and i met about a year ago at least i was stimulated by the notion of and said that we should try to create an economy worthy of affection i thought this just doesn't seem to make any sense that's not the way we look at money that's not the way our relationship  established it's more about how much can i get how much can i keep this so forth and so on today we're going to talk about money in its barest that it's the economy it's barest forms what is it really what is the economy really made of and so let me introduce ed and i'll ask him that question so that we can pursue a thread about where we need to go not just in banking but in terms of our whole relationship to money and to our economy so ed welcome thank you good to be with you all so let's talk about that the term regenerative economy and regenerative banking is a is a new term tell us what that is well we're familiar with the regenerative economy we just don't see it in those terms the regenerative economy is all around us we see it we're driving through places that nature the original regenerative economy is the fruits of nature that are provided as a function of biological processes that support life on the planet and we have become arrogant and misled in our modern day thinking that it's the ingenuity of mankind that gives us this vast material economy and all the things and stuff that we have around us that are so called modern life so paul comfortable it's really alien pegues from who we are and in fact the greatest public health crisis to face us as a species is the global material economy it's literally killing because we misunderstand that the entire material economy is based on photosynthesis the gifts of nature give us all the raw materials necessary to produce the material economy and the pace at which we're making stuff the pace at which you are extracting the fruits of nature from the planet is causing radical dislocations the collapse of ecosystems and ultimately the shift in our climate and if we don't stop it nature will say of mankind or humanity that was a bad experiment will push reset and she will eliminate us and try again the regenerative economy has its place in the modern world you know action it seems and i'll give you one simple example the gentleman who repairs my boot heels i were to because i ride horses is a gentleman that i've known now for but when i give him money it goes straight to his family and his children's well being and it's an affectionate exchange if i were to go to have generic corporate own chain cobbler i wouldn't know the person it would be a purely transactional actor but the regenerative economy is based on the idea that when i engage in commercial exchange i simultaneously create net gains net measurable gains in ecological ecological social and economic well the problem and i'll stop here well is that right now what will conventional material economy doing exactly the opposite ninety nine point nine nine nine percent of economic in the economic matrix photosynthesis is really at the source of our wealth our commonwealth you say but it's interesting that you point out that the that the business that is the in business as a nature extinction is the rule not the exception so this isn't a trivial matter we're talking about here why do it in what ways are we stepping over that line with our current system it's a great question and i i only need to tell you that the statistics just in the united states tell us that eighty percent of this is that are started which is fine in nature the natural scientists and biologists tell us that almost the exact same percentage of species that nature tries fail why is that the case because nature's model is prototyping when she has to fill in your ecological niche think about the extension of the dinosaurs and we need a new capstone creditor to it all she experiments in industry entrepreneurship is fundamentally an experimental gesture but it's not what it used to be there was a time  the united states when the titans of industry would pocket about just what you did they would say we have to work for the commonwealth in fact the dean of the first business school in the united states was a yale said in a speech when he was trying to make the do well by society and hearts to reste the common good then a business school has a place in the a cat if on the other hand our aim is to train brains to manipulate money exchange between us as opposed to humanized it and i think that that is a it doesn't to most people i think it doesn't sound very practical because they can only think in the month in the matrix of commodities and and exchange and exchanges of of physical entities whereas these other values that you brought in of health and happiness well being and humanity have been ignored when we talk about banking have course have been discussing the public bank protocol and methodology how is it that banking expresses the values or could can express could express the values that you're referring to thank you that's i think that's an angle of approach we should explore because people will say on thursday here in the things i'm talking about and i've been told by fancy it's vetoed economists who are on faculties that i've been on by world class executives and large banks that these ideas are naive and i take that seriously because these people have degrees and letters and experience that i don't have but i also think that they are true the most profitable bank in all of the netherlands which is a pretty well one country by any measure margins reinvestment rose pace number of investors is a little bank called tree a dose bank i should say it's not the largest the healthy it's not the largest in terms of turnover but in terms of its margins the length of time people have to oz it's with it treat us bank is the most commercially successful by all conventional economic measures it is a philanthropic leone's bank created by a group of ex pats from rob a bank in one thousand nine hundred six and they left rob a bank to see if they could create a bank that generated net wellbeing rather than profit so they created a philanthropist to hold the bank to solve the problem started a program talking about the problem are we trying to solve our work in the foresight lab our work in the world we're teaching all of it is trying to solve the problem of our ilian nation  nature and each other as fellow creatures when they want to do with this bank was asked could we generate net measurable gains in community wellbeing rather than profit traders banks was launched and it's been copied by the  it's like blood when it moves in the economy at speed with good intention it nourishes it creates opportunities to canonic opportunities it creates education that creates our when money is held by the science of industry and big conventional banks it gets stale and it rots because it sits in piles and make the rich richer and to a misery the poor and that crushing gap is the direct result of our material economy if we reinvent banking in relationships and if our banking relationships are affectionate like i talked about before banks become a whole different thing if you think about that wonderful movie  life a wonderful life that that little lone and trust that that jimmy stewart's character runs is fighting with this titanic bank that wants to gobble it up now that's exactly what we're talking about i think banks and you know  banks that are publicly oriented with the common wealth and the common good can be equally profitable two or better on conventional measures but good in the world rather than create one yeah much more profitable in many instances i mean for example our our model of public bank the bank of north dakota performs wall street two to one in terms of its return on equity it has the least amount of  they it is the strong return return on equity has been seventeen to twenty six percent for the last twelve years pretty pretty high marks well there are some other banks that you mentioned then we have some graphics here i see that the tritos bank  logo says make your money make a difference there are a cup and you mention beneficial an amalgam it'd amalgamated bank of new york now a national bank was started by the amalgamated fabric workers a clothing workers union only to sort of that community it's all been about commitment to public wellbeing and public trust so so their strength and vitality and a certain affection for each other that's implicit in that as that completely dealings their activities with the global financial markets instead of using the library or extracting a punitive interest rate set by bankers and by it dark rooms when they want to set their interest rates they get the people who pay it best in and their investors room and they talk about neat human need and they agree quarterly out with just the interest rate that the is the lenders and every bank world we're based on that suddenly far and away to solve every single complex ecological social and economic problem that we as a global society face so we really have two choices emulate our s f in trios have an abundantly joyfully connectedly human future where the economy is based on inclusion regeneration of nature and abundance of wellbeing in the world or continue on this path collapse of ecosystems destruction of the climate cycle and ultimately the extirpation of our species in me this is a pretty easy choice yes of course but you're not you're not a bank president so probably but have not yet yes it but as you say an unsustainable path that we're on which is one of the reasons that of course the public banking has come to the fore right now because that are considering them are on an unsustainable path of more of debt of indebtedness and there's no way of course they can borrow themselves out of debt and simultaneously there is no way that they can express were committed or  best sentiments their best intentions to improve the economy and to approve the welfare of the people for whom they see that they serve so they're locked into a cycle of commodification of money that prevents them from using it it's a as you say it's not it not a tough choice if we would only take it seriously so this this business about nave a take is actually on the other foot we're foolish if we i think that that it's not the case that nature rules here and that we better you know resonate and replicate and regenerate ourselves and arc and our relationships there's a new variation a real one of the applications of money that you're involved context but r s x name it and built it and just took the idea and ran with it in traditional terms companies are helping one of the simplified there either held by an individual or that individual's profit or they're held back a group of people or group profit and they're put into a global material economy and banking and financial system that we've been talking about that so problematic the briley rates are perpetual purpose trust is it allows the holding company last family or a community much like alchemy who have one thing in common a mutual intention to create wellbeing in the world and it actually creates disincentives to grow profit way that the tax structure or natural purpose trust works is that you're rewarded for steady state operation steady state economics has been studied by james daly in a variety of other economists and they've said that it's the only future of the global cereal economy because it's nature's model this is not a subtle naive fringe idea it's quite central in the world of ph the total economic economists who talk about these issues t allows a business operates on a steady state model and to do so you basically create incentives to grow slow have intention and do good it goes way beyond to be rationed or even a benefit person is set up a permanent way of holding up this mess so that generations after generations of families rather than being taxed on profit and being motivated to generate profit and artificial wealth they actually generate wealth being good in the world and make a modest sufficient profit and i'll say that they were there exemplify something that we may evolve that i want to make sure to mention people often see these conversations as conversations about policy reform they're mistaken this is a movement of social conscience that wants to fuse our nation and never has it been more important in the times that we are in now in the united states that we demand of every candidate running for public office from the school board in the water board to the highest office in the land that they make a commitment in their platform to pursue the bridge entered on it and public banks and perpetual mistrusts and to hammer them by force of will guile and political process into the infrastructure of our nation protected your generations against those who would have jack our future in ways that are happening right now so if we take these ideas and convert them into the place where the future of our policies  society are words that is the world that elected office we have a chance to make this real and to have it be as much a part of our everyday world as reporting on the dow jones stock exchange or any other government voce that would involve carbon and understanding of carbon as the new common currency tell us a little bit about how carbon fits him as a as a monetary if you will as a currency element thank the the idea comes from the fact that the the dutch ministries of climate and and economy emerged last year and you would ask the question why would a smart progressive intelligent well run country one of the best economies in the world merge their depart their ministries of economics and climate well i mean it's not hard to figure out if you've been watching the long term movie of our global economy they realize that carbon is the new currency if we trade carbon as an investment in our own future and if we traded in such a way as to make it negatively valued we will gear down and actually reverse climate change over the long term right now all we're trying to do is to slow the increase in climate change the only way we can turn the gears backwards save our species and create well being in the world is to take cartman and make it a negative is traded in such a way as to reverse its generation and create incentives to sequester and run every business in the world in such a way as that it must measurably each year reduce its carbon footprint or it's put out of business by law and that's where that level insists at it so our goal is to go there this summer with governors of the u s central bank it's bankers with people teetotum economists the students with business leaders and with other policy leaders we are just beginning to plan this but our hope is it will be welcomed by the ministry of climate and economy in the netherlands to study their model and to begin talking about this on a larger frame and ultimately to take this message to the world economic forum in a few years where the titans of industry government policy science and education gather and set the global course of the future of our global society and tell them in no uncertain terms that regenerative economy is west you must pursue and if you don't you are breaching the public trust as elected officials do sherry's of the future and your social license to operate will look after it before your very eyes if you don't pursue it after that generates lanty of economic wellbeing but in changing that cycle and quickly had if i had ask you about how you see the public banking a development and evolution serving that purpose how do you see that played out thank you while in my estimation every bank in the world needs to be converted by lying to a public bank we need to fundamentally change the regulations that it's impossible for a bank to operate extract if in the meantime the propagation of the public bank movement with you and your colleagues e p i are leading is essential to our it's more than interesting and helpful it's those things for sure it's more than inspiring and me it's those things is fundamentally essential to the health and survival of our nation and our species that we pursue public banks with all due vigor because they're an example of it and everything i've been talking lead that's all the time we'll have unfortunately but thank you very much for that i think that's really expanded a lot of thinking for a lot of us it is it's a stark reality that the systems that we live in the problem that we survive through and we  tolerate is leading us to and unsustainable future and that there are dimensions to our economy that go outside the bounds of money currency exchange forth and commodities but really reside in natural processes relationship between people the talents the prospects the intention of communities through to work together toward the benefit of humanity regenerative economy perhaps as you would like to say an economy worthy of our affection ed thank you so much for being with us today very much appreciate it thank you walt it's always a delight i appreciate you having me on edition of a public bank solution to see you again on a future edition and we'll talk more about public banks and the future of our economy as a community