to date ok and welcome welcome very much to conversations a pleasure to welcome to the program a dear friend of mine and of the world i would say that's schoene bought and he's the chairman of an organisation called kashmir mission usa and he's touch over the years and so forth but maybe you could for the audience share your own personal background understand you have roots to go right into kashmir as they were even to srinagar i'm not sure because you share your own background and then we'll talk about the situation cl earthquake in the events that are going on now in that part of the world but share your own background please i don't think you very much were given an opportunity once more and we'd talked about it before also to share my views and  way in new york and so what did you have many friends and contacts with people in pakistan you understand very well and you've taken on the assumption of this role of chairman and you have for a long time representing the cause of the kashmir which is something that is an extremely important question in an extremely important strategic part of the world in an extremely important strategic moment in the evolution of history that should be understood well it is not nearly interest well is not the situation in kashmir by the american of the world citizenry wouldn't you agree yes i do i do it i do remember when i when i came to this country and i started talking about kashmir i even had to explain that kashmir start if i may i remember we did a program here we had a map we should have had here we could have we didn't but it's so strategically placed kashmir it's the jewel in the crown china yes russia pat you know india i mean it's so strategically placed in the middle in a certain sense geographically of the islamic oma that a larger all my time there is kashmir and it's a place of great contention great animosity between two great powers of up pakistan and india is an extremely important to nuclear power to the now nuclear powers which is not a small matter at all yes and it's a very strategic area and there's great deal of injustice from your perspective that has been characteristic of the time since the end of the british raj and so forth and maybe we could touch on some of that historical development that makes that area an area of contention and even violent confrontation among two peoples and so forth as a metaphor if you go back a bought it yeah treated like as the property yeah not only the land but even the people of that with the ruler who was hindu of the kashmir this bought it from from from british from the british years and yet the population was ninety five percent muslim that's true and there's almost built in contradiction there did not characterize other land of visions between pakistan and india the way kashmir lingers it's an irredentist things some people would say and it's a very important thing and it's worth having some understanding of because it's deja significance so i would say the freedom movement the people of kashmir who wanted to be free it started in actually in eight hundred thirty one the first time dia that we tend to think of of the country now it is not important because those regional identities are very important terms of the subcontinent that's true and that has been historically so kashmir is the unique language kashmir has got of course unique language unique idea and then of course ever since you know been you know if we come to nine hundred forty seven yes the partition time at that time we had actually the whole india was almost six and a princely states of six hundred prince how many languages this difference was very obvious and then we know and then there used to be a problem and there have been variations in who held quote unquote power you had the mogul there or that there were great areas of civilization that were built because that's a great area of the north west frontier province and the whole basis of a nineteenth century british geo political thinking between sea power and land power with that was called the heartland hardware which was a part from influenced by sea power and there was a big game played about strategic empires flashing one with the other and that's always been a site of great concern yes and many of the day the british had to rue the day that they tried to assert control up and that north was we visiting that again in case of that part of the world yet at this moment as we try to exert any higher upon that part of the world do you think that maybe a side issue but not so much but as part of the well now it is concerned you see it not everything is into linked with  islam and we're coming up to a congressional election our administration terrorist terrorists are in there trying to conflate that with islam and yes and to mr huntington talking about the all you know the clash of civilizations but back to kashmir at the end when the a very very disrupting movement of population and everything was settled geographically in terms of there were three provinces that didn't apply but in kashmir this settlement that was to be done by the agreement what it was it was not was never been lived up to in the eyes of yourself and your comrades that are fighting in terms of kashmir liberation from the occupation as you see it and the disregard for un mandates and how that is that some of that was something later you see before that you yeah so maybe from that point we would might be there to do this otherwise there's the connection anyway there was that thing and there was supposed to be that there would be how is that going to be decided they came to the u n forty eight or so forty seven forty eight was what he did was the same time they were doing with palestine the un it's all happened you know they're just left from the front part from it india and palestine so all this praed problem that created at one time it might be good to keep that in mind because there's a link between them because you have isla yes i'll be down so let's see if you if you if you can manage to cut old is what is the pugs that is going to become a better state and who is so i talk to a fellow i did a program that aired yesterday from the day you and i are talking on the fourth that was with a fellow who was a friend of  universally loved by in all religions you can stay for your for and to fight against occupation of your culture is a perfect good gentleman thing for people all over the world that and there are i don't know how many places there are where there's ease reoccupation issues are really americas right are beginning to say why do we have to be occupied because we've occupied the north american continent if you look at it from the standpoint of the indigenous people and south america there was a terrible indignities death so maybe some like that will this is now in control he's in iraq and bolivia so they're beginning to stir some of the people saying occupation by colonial power is something that is very much in the minds of much of the world is something to be against the idea that some there and i think it's operative in the minds of a lot even if we look at places like iraq we are in some case palestine had a state but i think the palestinians see themselves occupied and not as a european people in that traditional vein and we should see things the way those people do we want to try and understand it forces by the india right so they were occupied then that's right ok against the will of the mass of the people that's right and indeed at that time thought that the best thing is at this time that we stop the war yeah and we just negotiating to negotiate it was done with the purpose an extent and they said they've annex that area as part of india it's an intrinsic part of india and therefore their thing it was some of the people say that if they let that go then there will be separatist movements in assam or in other parts as not your issue but from india's perspective they've got to maintain the union it would be like letting california go or something like that in terms of that that would be the beginning of a domino thing where the you knew a fall apart and you got all these different ethnic entities and they states you have tremendous regional differences even on to what would be like national and some cricket i mean like bangalore is very very different than delhi average job is very different from calcutta that kind of stuff you have these great differences and people are worried about they want to have a political entity that has unit he like abraham lincoln held together our union when there were people wanting to go separate is there any thing like that except we had a common language a common thing more than in india it's a they still have a caste system and even i don't understand that thing where they have some people that are like untouchables yes was and that it was that a difference between the muslim view of human organization is one of the biggest difference because bug in muslims nobody's interest of everybody is it would be and you know you cannot discriminate a person just because of his caste how do they justify that i don't understand how i mean that's like like a caste system  depending on economic sphere some people are very strong we have that in that's looked down upon we still have upper class and but the caste system is all these built into the nature of the universe and how do they in lectures you know intellectual how do they philosophical system or something so that's the thing but i mean too far afield from kashmir from that so kashmir and they've roundly they had a number of resolutions saying they have plebiscite that was agreed to that with the term and they've never been able to allow that for whatever reasons they have heard of doing that and they've assert that i understand you've got something you had i remember we talked in the past it is six hundred thousand troops i heard some of the people a thing i saw yesterday was a package that they may have something close on to a million one of their armed forces keeping the peace with violence and so forth in kashmir and is that correct could you put the the situation in what i listen to every day every five people does this food for every five people there's a soldier in kashmir that's testify the just they have no links between does this this this piece of lead normal normal no good lection that they can claim that death part of india i mean do we a part of certain state you have to have something in common you have to have a love for each of the you have to have some some demands put into the but i put it leigh kashmir has got no connection with india and there are not people moving from further south in india there arizona we took it and there weren't enough of them through with this i'm a crazy or split up a fight a few people put up a fight but it was overwhelming numbers of europeans who took over and we took over and we had that but there's not that number you gotta love a lot of even that you get a just a few understand what it was and we did it with an army with guns and just gatling guns and forth real politics but they haven't got enough power to be able to assert that to where they can flood it within me and yet it is a deal different from you and me does have power because we did have connection nothing to do with india and that's why you see all these people being killed every of the day you've had one hundred thousand people buy records that have been killed in that incur and they try not to even sit and think yeah and you don't have i arms and so and then in the idea of any resistance or something i suppose would be from the indian perspective that has a million soldiers so is the new it is a long distance of separation you're right you're graphically right but it is you're in the middle of the right people in indonesia are going to perhaps relate to the suffering of muslims who are suffering because they're muslims in that the fact that we we started out talking about how the western powers are going to say even down samuel huntington what not they're saying that the problem in the world is that we've got this this is footage for the lot of people see we've got this world and we pretty much control the whole world is beginning to be rumblings in venezuela and bolivia and abbott and everything but we've got the whole world for much got in control the chinese seem to be signing on to our capitalist system our model our third thing is like a neo imperialist or you know thing like that but we've got this group for the middle of the eurasian mass called muslims from mauritania it indonesia and they just don't seem to want to fall into line as some of them do they become vishy to our power as a super power and that they're doing it so they're not setting up a war thing and we just one got ourselves all involved the united states got involved as they were of our in iraq and that's come a cropper that's come a cropper they thought that they were going to just all fall in line and fall in behind our full spectrum dominance of the whole world that is the aim of our current administration we do all we want is full spectrum dominance of the whole planet including space and then things will settle in much like the british used to feel to call lism and in a world where people largely are very adverse to the boot of colonial control by some people who are seeing them so they are mentioned over lesser people that kind of thing that's a dynamic that's at work and that's beginning to come into focus in terms of reflecting upon kashmir and perhaps the broader developments with the islamic world and might be worth trying to relate those to particularly in view of just what what just went on in lebanon  also what's going on now in terms of iran and the west in relationship to iran and the mess in in iraq well i think what could be broke for five hundred years i don't think that drug now even though the powers of trying that and we have seen in iraq we've seen in lebanon we've seen in the finest it's i'm working on it is happening is killing and killing and getting and human beings are being killed doesn't matter go through all this exercise of spending money in the nation getting people displacing people having a conflict in among civilizations and in that it ins and then you know this is all a use this exercise and so good you got things going there are emerging in afghanistan you've got why there's don and all this kind of stuff things going on in pakistan i don't know what the realities are in pakistan itself there's a lot of discontent with the imperial model lot of people in fact standard not to look favorably upon the united states of america right even though musharraf is there cooperating a certain level maybe you could share some of the realities as you see it in time jim terms and you'll be helping us understand better what the realities are people who understand what the realities are there from the fl you see it is like a vishy thing where the nazis set up a thing and then there's some people who are going to try to be with them and everything like that and then you could extend that out further to some of the so called moderate states that seem to be able to have maybe a position of power within their current some of the gulf states that they will get along with the united states fit into the model and everything because they're in a position of power they're moderate run that's what they're trying to do is to get people to go along with the overlordship of the united states of america as a superpower and there are some people and that the more or less there are a lot of people do every country in the world as you the few people who do very very well and run things and most of the people we don't have a system that's democracy for the whole of the people i'm not saying he doesn't have a list what i'm saying is to be leading a country you know you have to have at least more than fifty percent support well you should talk to do i think in the leisure got deep trouble and you have to put a million troops up there don't care yeah that's what it is but he still commands troops and he's still got in billions and billions of dollars in the united states in order to let certain things go of even afghanistan and the understand he's been bribed it seems in the back of the i don't want to say that but you got it so i would say yes you're right he's been brio much of the leaders of the he expected and you got the leaders of the world putting the people in many people's minds you've got a system that serves maybe twenty percent for the countries or in the whole and you're going to put people against the wall in the system cannot serve the into the people you're likely to get a lot building not from the not from the leaders necessarily who are in on the game in terms of a corrupt system but the people themselves that may be actually stirring to were there winds of real honest to god support or democracy in a system that economic justice or what may actually be may be a be occurring but it's hard to see out of the nightmare scenario of special interests ruling over the masses of people large on the planet including levels maybe not directly and so forth and the thing that interested me is that they had this thing recently where israel which has been always seen as a in dispute or belief powerful overwhelmingly invincible power it was there and they thought he was going to come on television and say well yes we're going to have to design and we're going to do that because it's a threat or something and he came out and he sang the praises of hezbollah that they're rising up the arab nation or the islamic nation is rising up to say why do we have to accept let's just put it in stark terms you've got a couple million jews from you're up that are there are challenging one point four million muslims and they're going to be able to put real pressure on it with support from iran which is doing that so that real support is going to come and he's saying it's give a new impetus to an islamic questioning of the situation of the superpower status of israel in that an undying and ally of the united states and that might be putting real pressure on the idea that the west is invincibly strong and that they can perhaps be challenge in the numbers that the islamic world can assert and that that is changing the geostrategic nature of things as we go now that there may be a rising not just militarily but in all sense of end do you think there's any of that do you sense any of it and could that come to the support of the kashmiri people whose condition has been widely ignored by all of the world in a convenience of  and say well what right you let us have possibly ever really good what would you let us do they may be able to challenge that assumption on the part of the western powers that what i'm saying may be blowing in the wind as we say now and it might have ramifications in terms of real support for the situation of the mujahedeen or others in kashmir where you're particularly concerned do you think maybe good things are happening after long not paying attention to that very important part of the world  we seem to bother you just say anything less than ten is not even notice of right right and the count is adding up yeah and there's so much attention put on the palestinian thing in the american press right partly because there's such a strong jewish connection to palestine were i don't know in the balance and why there's so much attention poured upon palestine you say and not not kashmir you said right one of course jewish connection well that makes sense i think oth had to do because they've been a superpower they've got i'm dying amounts of money go we could have an effect on that but i don't know the other part but i know i know that they haven't been paying attention to the situation i've been in kashmir the way it should and it's a very disquieting kind of it's a very disquieting kind of thing you see i think up to nine eleven you'd be mentioned the eleven i would like to play you this with you yeah everything that i from nine eleven of course we had a lot that's being questioned there yes and then the question is whether or not there would be affected if the kashmir issue is extremely important you said it earlier there are two nuclear powers right and there are if there are ad very strong a a very important representative of that and i really thank you for that for running the or being chairman of that great group of people that cadre mission i think would be good and maybe you people might start thinking about i suggested to you no importance right and you've got to start getting some  that maybe start doing a program about that in order to inform the american people with multimedia which i think will i be a good idea maybe we can get you over here to do a program possible i don't want to put you on the spot but on a day it would really be