but i'll be happy to send you anything you want i think it's the missing link as dangerous kind of talk or thinking is there a missing link that's going to make everything fit into place welcome is known for those of you at the united nation is known within the united nations system as mr informatics he is singularly the most important person i think it's fair to say for having successfully wired if that's the right term or gotten onto the internet  united nations system itself and it was a very it was understanding the importance of that and we're going to talk about that and other matters in the model walking very much like other sation i wonder if we could maybe we could talk a little bit about how there's a great deal we could talk to you about but it is true you have this and i wonder you have a very good in deep knowledge of the implications of the internet and communications and how did you do you share live your own background by focusing upon how you came to be first aware of and then begin to learn the significance of the emerging what became the internet world wide web and whatever it is it's come in after it you know it's an interesting story yeah it was i was sitting something we went into the american military base in seoul yeah and joined the marines and joined the computer classes with them and what years is now this is about twenty years ago i was the early eighty's just sort of getting your computer every three years now because the technology changes the speeds change the possibilities change and so that's how when you look at young kids yeah you see that at a very young age they're getting a familiarity with computers of age we did not get until we were good enough fifty's and i still having that and i can't keep up with the twelve year old i think it's changing so fast they are happy beyond the of technology already i maybe you're not because you've got to tell you you've got the beginning twenty years ago thank goodness yeah but it is and it's an amazing thing one wonders how is that keep going moore's law now they're going i saw something in tells that they got to think seven hundred times then i'll sit on their seven hundred times faster than what we've had or something in the evolution is going so rapidly now beyond borders law it's going to molecular computing it's and so i didn't interrupt no not at all yeah because this is an exciting story all of us were we were brought up on dos programming and trying to learn how a computer to talk to that is what essentially led me into the study of computer intelligence which is something that fascinated me right from the beginning as to what how does a computer work and what are the limits of the intelligence of a computer because basically a computer has only two qualities it has zero intelligence  like pattern recognizing or recognition if you have or something like that yeah because it's an icon that's something very very nice not really endowed with the capability of recognizing patterns yes but dragging in russia is a totally different meaning red means beautiful examples that i have always given is that if you take a simple mathematical question which is one divided by seven to play it by seven it's a very simple mathematical equation now a child can do it because he notices immediately human evolutionary model we have before us from evolution and so forth the instinctive aspects of the human experience i don't know is somehow superior to what is thought of  as you know in the conscious the unconscious we have the reptilian core we have a lot of these things with the prefrontal loads of a certain kind of intel and what do we mean by intelligence and you say the computer is not intelligent take a very simple exam i mean when you read a text or a single good you know when you read it in a book you don't really read and read that to string it together into the wood you pick up the whole image of the wood and that is on the to read that's what gives you speed reading a computer does not do it like that a computer reads each and every letter strings it into a word then tries to good to its memory to see what that would that would means or what does the c'mon that it contains  that's like a pattern recognition salute now we do pattern recognizing the computer does linear thinking so you think the computer is a linear absolutely it's a very good example to do given this is the big difference yeah between those languages which  pronounced differently will have a different word to connected with it but the meaning is identical as it is communicating the particular sentiment so how do we deal with that one of the unique things we have is the pattern recognise and human mod of recognizing patterns the other is a more linear kind of a perception do not have those in terms of our functioning because we want to get around a word they talk about artificial intelligence they're talking about intelligence so it would be grounded in what do we  intelligence you know we have intelligence tests and we have some people are more intelligent than others i think is probably sure and what are we talking about when with somebody who has a higher level or what do we mean by intelligence at the human level and then maybe you start trying to compare it with the pattern is what you retain in your memory the problem with computers is that they basically have only speed and memory but no thinking again you are because you seem to be do you know that that what what what when we're talk about human intel have a thing called i q is that a meaning those test or what is it that we're measuring because it seems to be it seems to me  i said earlier that the computing memory and speed seems to be the brain with the axioms in the neurons and ten ten to the tenth power numbers sounds an intercom a day when neurotransmitter there's a brain we can understand that there but then there's a mind it seems to me basically computers programmed machines in other words behind every software that you have is so many times and man dollars of work which have been put in in order to create a program and the computer is just running that program so it is living on the bad old intelligence off the programmers who have spent thousands of man hours putting a program into please and it seems to run very fast but in the  not the computer it is the man behind the computer ok because we as the people who are supposed to use this tool are somehow abdicating too much of our responsibilities to the tool and because they look at these kind of things and it's new the computer as far as having something to do with ordinary human beings the computing capability you know with norbert wiener and these kind of things come he was very worried when he wrote human use of on you can scratch out put something dead or an scratch and bring back the idea it's very difficult to do this on a computer screen as i did the best thinking which is being done now is still being done on paper go oh i'm sure that and that's been there for a long time before that they were writing on clay tablets and for that they were scratching things on the walls of caves and we've been able to do that that sort of thing has just come it's come relatively recently and but it does do it does bring is a thing information overload some people feel like there's so much information seven hundred times faster intel says the internet is coming like a locomotive and the world wide web and now they've got this new web it's going to link just computers together and so it's really coming so quickly some people say it's information overload we have a play on broadway to stop the world i want to get off to so much but he has to recognize it nor winners that information overload within a system permits pattern recognition at another level so that you can systems that you were caught with then you'll be able to see things that are more comprehensive level and see the patterns between them and the pattern recognition and that might be something to wear instead of being locally viewing things that we are able to see things in a more prehensi pattern or pattern recognition capability that the computer could do with in a systems way welling and is that not one of the unique capabilities of your mental process you know that several decades ago bugs a french philosopher you give out with his theory of off the breed and he said to the function of the brain is not so much to imbibe imports from outside as it is to filter out most of the were doing yeah it was to really influence the filtering capacity of the brain of the drug that druther the deceiving only the essential imports you will be overwhelmed by all the imports we have millions and trillions of them around converted into a sponge well then i know there was a thing where alpert was investigating those things or larry isn't he went to one of the side use or something out in india and they went through and they went through the thing and he had gone through a certain kind of yoga discipline or something to reach the mahdi and he got into a state of consciousness by physical whatever he did in meditation and so forth got into a state of consciousness that mimicked that which they were into with with the drugs you know you have these different a certain you know some of these investigations of things either you know you know that what's right and proper for us to understand is only what we see and that i mean to have you know investigate yogi disciplines it can change cons greatest the greatest advances that are going to be made in the future will be in these search engines you or did you see some of those advances such engines of have become excellent and now that they tell you how you can get fifteen what you want and only the information that you need is going to come into your computer the rest is not going to be seen by you or i see something like what people were doing the  already been searched recorded and are going to be played for you right right right now that is going to be the key to the future in the internet and once again as i said the it has to be a system in which you are the  know think there's any danger the computer could get out of control no because the population of the world is six billion plus the moment to be the have only three hundred million uses and the chances  for the human society and so forth where does it lead us to it leads to a sense of responsibility and you and me that we have a beautiful do not hands and we have to prove w life the choice is yours and now you have a tool which has extraordinary capacity for search and put attention yes and search and retrieval now how are you going to use it and that is the question i'm not too sure whether we're doing justice by it at the moment but at the moment our problem is not just that it is also the inequalities oh absolutely i have i think as i said about three hundred plus million they had one hundred five vote million voters and it was all done with a t m kind of thing that they had brought into brazil is done no margin of air everything was done in six hours totally fine no question but here we are the leader of the world and we're still going on with punch cards you know it's really it's really amazing you know that this is going on but then the broader question is are we going to find some solutions are the the trending the things that we're doing the internet's a positive thing it can bring great benefit or to the human society it's the medicine him one of the major problems of the world is that medicine is not available in diplo to countries of the good guys if you have the internet and if you have advanced doctors sitting on this side and it is being extensively used in the united nations peacekeeping missions in favor of deployment in outlying areas or the mass of the world going to connect to the internet is it going to be through wires or wireless technology is there any big promise in terms of the wireless d because if you do it takes too long dick and dick knowledge is changing so fast that even if you move you will still be falling backwards so you have to leapfrog yeah and that's the only way to keep ahead in some countries great luxury in a way isn't it states on the highways sometimes yes but to have them wiped spread is what i'm talking about i asked you before i wondered because we have this technique you understand the technology and when you were in korea twenty years ago and who started out that way and you've been learning it all the time as i say you understand it perhaps better than anyone at the u n in terms of that which is a great important responsibility in general when you think and contemplate the problems that are before us and you think of the human condition let's say in broad general terms taking into account your knowledge of the technology and the wonders of quality to it or something and the more people who knew about it the more would be thinking about it so back to to the good but so far we haven't quite improved the human species as such as a result of information disappeared they started babbling and simmering and exploding in many parts of the word does it that the world economic order and so forth have a pattern that is going to be able to sufficiently and economic because what you need is somehow to give to move away from an industrial based economy into a knowledge based economy and do to level the playing field so that people with the same access to knowledge can be rebuilt can compete with each other on the basis of who is better without protectionism in other words and of that is a great equalizer for the first time the internet offers us in that developing countries which have been bypassed by the industrial revolution partly because the industrial revolution took place in the west and partly because they would get down by google is the audio and pushed back by  africa absolute goes it really has been bypassed by the winds of change it has there and other places too have problems tremendous problems and you know it's going and one of the things is that everywhere y now yes we have a problem getting us out of the new president we don't even know what it is as you and i talk we'll know perhaps by tomorrow which way the winds are going to blow in that direction and the institutions by which the human societies are going to enter comedy it was one another democracies one in a time one of my favorite lines of the poet james joyce if history is a nightmare the sum which i'm attempting to awaken that we're coming out of a scarcity laden condition of two hundred thousand years of human evolution that we have a capacity with the appropriate application of our knowledge base and the ability to bring that technologically augmentation of the productive process and so forth that we may be at some sort of a qualitative transformation where the conditions for essential part of human behavior and has to be defended because if you do not have conflict you do not have evolution evolution is gone flicked sort of steady state thing wouldn't be of that is i did desire to move all of that to something that was up in the bible says the poor and the wretched will always be with us and we might as accept that that there are some of us will do well and a lot of us are just going to die and be wretched and we just accept that is that what irected will always be with equality you think that is bought and inequality and a justice is for evermore built into the structure of universal consciousness yes because justice has no meaning it has sapped at what by combat is a justice you don't think there's any loss of th no possibility that there could be it we talk about in economics their eyes are mr smith we have mr ricardo and we have a chum peter we have keynes and we have all of these kind of systems of theoretical economics and so what and there are particular tip on the assumption that there is not enough to go is absolutely insatiable desire is insatiable so there's no sense in ever thinking that there will be a time when there will be enough actor daniel middle and now says to the world on their ads with david brinkley there's no problem creating food we can make enough food there was a time in human history when you couldn't make enough bloody food there wasn't enough to go around there was real grinding physical scarcity there we can make enough food now there's just the economics and the politics the big gift but there's a difference for you when you have the technological capability of providing from a historical condition when you did not have that when we were on the serengeti plain we were running away from leopards and we only had a little you know we were eating worms or something it was scared it was real you that might be because in the universe of the evolution of universal consciousness an opera or mysterious resonating hierarchy so if ever we did liberate we're going to close calls on two hundred thousand years of liberation and we get ghio we get human liberation everybody's  you get up and work it is because a disk screwed do you have to get up and dress in order to think anybody ever goes out from them if i've got friends of mine and i mean this is about the technology i have friends who are painters and they're working at their easel when they're painting and there's absolutely nothing can bring them away from it because that's what they want to do now there are other people who get up at the wits end we have a thing called slavery and people would get up in order to answer the master's call that he'd get in the that does what makes a good artist you think it is such an idea and is there is there is there is there something in that in terms of human purpose and is it written in to human nature that this is something that you know ok i was thinking in terms of the ma but and relating that back to the we want to get back to the technological things that we're talking fire the philosophical things and true but they do it is a seamless web isn't it everything but now come over you know i come back to the information because you're one of the right is very tough yeah i don't know whether to stuff in america but in mexico it doesn't exist anybody names right now how do you do deal with this type or entities and now the entity is the will and how do you going to deal with it and who's going to deal with their eyes the only place where this can be dealt with is basically the united nations because it's the only institution  everybody has a seat at the table and so it's the only place where you can talk about this type of problem of judas diction fascinating subject for the future absolutely challenge absolutely absolutely  is not just that you speak of the computer types but that database once you speak and the computer has digitally been able to analyze the meaning of what you're seeing then these the sky is the limit because for example you can have instantaneous translation and already there are companies which are looking at it commercially you pick up a telephone talking during somebody's i know yeah and your person at the other languages so everything has to be interpreted and that slows down but other than slowing down and speed it also changes the tone because the sentiment does not quite get transmitted to the other person  now you're going to be able to deal with this yourself because you'll be hearing the through voice recognition the other person responding language which you understand i mean it's amazing extraordinary that it's a model there are other things that are coming  the institute of training and research and i do a lot of teaching i teach at a number of universities and i'm devoted to the concept of bossing all the very little that two words in any language this is what he said coca cola you know i don't know but yeah it is and it's also been scapegoated a lot by people who are that's because the mr oh no exercise because the sovereignty is being undercut you know what so i mean that's the thing got to watch for scapegoating  we'll have to come to terms with that because just as mexican bees get into the united states without a passport and visa so good information traveling around the world now that raises another very very deep concern and the concern is the funding basically borders on artificial because the state croft cultures are very important the word is based on the fact that each one of left of the diversity of cultures that we have the diversity of languages the diversity of cultures the diversity of thinking processes and that is what enriches us because i could learn from her yeah and you can well that perp tech languages that might be under stress as everybody tried to talk english and perhaps is the salvation of the language that was going away or do you think it will do you think google for it but i'm just wondering if that's a model for protection of cultural uniqueness and diversity and richness that you were talking about it depends on whether you realize the tool is there to enable you to learn another culture or whether  rate yeah i did post all the terminology is in english i wonder that technology won't help save some of those languages and the and whether it might not help save if there's a metaphor to work and help save the richness of the cultural diversity rather than the leave it to people to think it out and i would have to agree or perhaps they disagree but i was really happy to tell you we're here in access which so like hyde park corner in terms of communication i'm commercials where and they're just started streaming the programming that we do on the internet  in the united nations we had already streaming some of the events all good on you and delivered and in some of the work that i'm doing as part of what is going to be a best as club which is a sort of a program of outreach from the united nations into universities in the united states good yes the idea is to create contacts between students and the best does in other words between those who study and those who practice and to create synergy between the two of to allow them to live a distance and i'm sure glad you went to that class in korea twenty years ago and you think it all started if you think you could have i bypassed that you would have not paid any attention to her there's no way to i think or not to the american marines voters who taught me computers while however it was informatics or wired as it were more than anyone else responsible for getting the united nations up to steam in terms of being connected to the international wired world as it were and is now on a research mission there and teaching mission to the un and also helps overseeing the budget of that institution which we should all of us and i very his ways bring pressure to have appropriate political economic support for this institution i grew to think it's an instant international institution that we really ought to nurture did i always wear whatever round you that's for sure but the synergy and then didn't we learn a lot from this election i said to my son i've learned more than a good four years of liberal arts education over this last move watching the election of the thing