glad you're getting going yes so we'll be talking about what we can do and what the public access is and welcome welcome very much to conversation or it's a pleasure to welcome two of the stalwart members of the production team here at the producers  program that's developing here and then and he's been around he's got he knows more people in new york city than anybody else i know and he has such a relationship with them and josh is so good to welcome and once again the conversations and  gloria she has the program refer farther down the rabbit hole that follows my program daily on manhattan network and she's just a light on to the world and so many different kinds of ways and paula welcome it's so good to join here with joshua on the program so great to see now we started out talking about this program and about the state of the world in the public access and that sort of thing and it originated from my having had a conversation with joshua about this idea th put upon him as being a progressive and we were going to start to talk about what is it that constitutes we can go off another round if you want but what is it that constitutes and what do we mean when we talk about the progressive community in terms of understanding the human condition or the human condition within the evolution of the universe of consciousness what does it mean to be a progress of what are the hallmarks of a progressive a person who really delves and indulges in to the full human had experience and that's being sensitive and working with other people listening to what the people listening to what they say whether you agree with them or not and trying to work with them and trying to understand also and visualize what the problems are now i could test the audience a question social security is seventy years old i know always r d m somebody is trying to change social security i the other people who are fighting for social security progressive's all raw data conservatives day trying to conserve something we've had for seventy interesting that works very well any change or something or there's things to be preserved and that's really interesting about you what do you think when you think of how do you get your value where do we get our values from in terms of political and or larger understandings of the human condition and now i'm just i'm always excited by the brilliance of a spontaneous situation you know i'm not talking how we were going to do the show you know i had no idea that josh would bring up such a brilliant analogy yeah it's good to know that to consider the social security that's been here for seventy years and then you corrected him seventy to seventy two is it isn't necessarily a good thing to change that and i think that says it all you think you know it's coming up a lot with me because sometimes harold i mean howard stern people they they copy my show and then they play it on their ears ok to sort of make fun that i do spiritual things and when they do is a little goofy or sell i and i in that interaction i had on the e mail because now we're pretty transparent about that i  one that i read really have to hand it to my dad howard stern's gang they picked up one that is one of my favorite is just about ten minutes you know it's called i mean berkeley liberal and i super brother george and this is when i went home to california and i was driving down the road and i had to go a little bit into the other side because of a big truck that was parked you know and i was used to courteous new york drivers and i courteous  over the center line in berkeley filled with the liberals but yeah but that the other fellow would come the other way and sort of move over and give me space because i thought he had no cars parked on his side and so i couldn't believe that this guy's coming at me it's all on you tube and i swear they they picked up on it and so they asked me while you're up at manhattan neighborhood network and you're one of those liberals or progressed a girls school and i was in a uniform but when my right eye would come through you know there were a couple people that would you know one mother would pick up a couple yes you're right and you know ride sharing thing and when the tear gas was flowing i was more sensitive than most i was like the canary i'd start sneezing and my father being that he was from greece so he fought in world war two with british and he saw so much heartache in that part of the country and part of the world liberal because it was a nasty thing or something and you know well then of course there's radical i may be radical was a very bad word but when i started really listening to what was happening with mario savio and what happened with the free speech movement i go wow was in shaking and we got a joint and it's like oh my what do we do with it so we just sort of we sort of worship to do anything with it but i'm wondering what it is because that's what we've got started what does it mean to be progressive or you brought up another term i could throw in here radical radical is somebody where somebody will let me just finish a radical it by definition definition is it means it goes to the roots of something rather than the symptoms or would go to the causes of something or st causes or large ideas or comprehensive radical kind rather than a reduction is kind of part of something you go to a radical or progressive would be a progressive radical somebody who's trying to get a hold of a large context of understanding what's going on well sometimes sometimes these things are defined more accurately by our  adversaries in other words a few days ago i was speaking to a group of students at city college and one of them was a former is a member of the new black panthers and he was telling the story of the way the bureaucracy at city college today tries to stop them from doing their work and from all good nice seen and from forming groups on campus so i told them there was nothing new about doc years ago prend of mine jerry kramer came to a dean at city college who was very reactionary the dean of student li member of americans for democratic and i'm going to stop it in a few weeks so jerry went away and then he investigated and he found the dean piece it was a total sham  a total deception dean peace was never a member of americans for democratic action but once he heard that jerry wanted to start group on campus dean to work like progress has there what do we mean progress progress is toward what i mean that's what i'm trying to get at where do it where do we stand where are we where is the  drama of the evolution of universal consciousness now in terms of this year two thousand and seven in terms of larger patterns of evidence and what are we progressing to lead to there are any is there any direction is there any purpose is there any if you don't have health care do you have dentistry and i glasses you know you should put grass to a better human condition well i wonder if social can do i wonder if i could throw just an idea something progressive pronou to my way of thinking in a certain sense that try to understand conditions that are going to bring benefit to the masses do the greatest number of people rather than highly qualified highly  specialized kind of benefit to those who are already well established in terms of let's say social political order something like that it's a thing that's inclusive of everyone and democratic use the term democratic and so what but it seems to me along those because i think you're right the way you've described it is probably why those that have a lot right now think the only way this could change is if i have less since i'm already on the top but are you saying what's really progress is a greater connection and well i think so and when you're sharing like you say jamming like a well yeah jazz musicians say well that would be like a con that would be i think don't you i don't know yet thing here and everything like that but i mean it's like  social order we're coming out of a situation where many of the people have not been able to realize even their full biography let alone their full potential right in terms of what's coming out of the evolutionary process not even a lot of clean water not even a leader of case yeah that's what i love about working with you well the design the design approach that we can support many more people and we don't have to still have this mouth lucien attitude that there's not enough and therefore and that we realize that we're part of an evolutionary process and so forth and we've been here science now we have more understanding where more and standing we're being able to do more and more with less one of the things that i'm really years ago all for now on earth was in the form of unicellular spongiform and there were there were there were destined to be evolutionary changes and varieties and things of which and we are contained within we contain that within us that thing and if you were in a steady state system we would still be in the primordial ooze there was an impetus to change that could be progressive that is an impetus to move out of the primordial ooze up to another lines and variety and so forth and then there's been the home annoyed line along which we've come to fit the scene and home of bilious and we get to a point two hundred thousand years ago where we emerged as a species and that comes as punctuated equilibrium a new change that comes like that and are we at a point maybe we're coming to the end of what we've been for two hundred thousand years we're going to come into a new relationship in universe or our relationship to the cosmos are we had a point or speciating are we a point of leaving the womb that we've been in for two hundred thousand years are we at a time a qualitative transformation in the evolution of universal consciousness and if we are should we not take cognizance of some of those things rather than repairing only to the systems of which we are merging the historical condition out of which were emerging and that sort of thing what do you think i would time a qualitative change when the problem says that a lot of people it isn't that a lot of people don't know what's right they don't want to know that you'll bring up brilliant people like our men still fuller and lois soul cold so but we can even be more simplistic than dot and look at the declaration of should be basic human rights you know where we have the human rights to major documents yes you have made it evolving international law out of just sovereignty yes the national level there's an international law that the merging is getting more and more quality as we move globally and so where that that's very important but you'll notice if you will that a lot of the people in the world still after two hundred thousand years and tremendous capability to provide technological intellectually enhanced ability to provide life support that a lot of the people still do not have enough food even at that elemental level to eat and there are mothers in africa that have to decide which of the two baby she's going to let starve to death when we have a system where we know we can produce overwhelmingly the food and all the requirements that may be available to those people and the systems are not able to realize what we're capable what we're technologically capable of doing our systems will not allow us to do for the good of the whole system much with the ecology what we know we're capable of doing it schizophrenia do you understand just what i'm saying that the that we that we have a capability that's evolve new created a new reality that's already there but we don't have and we have systems that were all tied up with in terms of the traditional patterns that are outdated in terms of what the future requires and we don't have the leadership to bring forth the ideas that exist grief because you know here here is the means here is the abundance and yet you've got strategies and policies where obviously powerful people believe the genocide is the order of the day well we do have don't we if we just think about it from it we do now have mature cock hotels we do know have weapons systems which has been the leading edge of technology development and as technology that is what distinguishes us uniquely we can extend our consciousness into the environment to make the environment other than what in and even like sense is given this is a lot of most of the creatures we can make the world and now we have these weapon systems that tell us and they can model it that it really does i don't know is it is it possible maybe i'm wrong but this is cochrane tells me this and other people do tell or some of the other that those weapon systems like all of two hundred thousand years of history meant hitting each other on they had to get some scarce resources or for whatever reason that if they were unleashed it would mean the end not only of the other tribe in the other village but the whole species we now have species lethal weapon systems in this game of war that we've been going that's been the course of civilization so called for so long and they're making a new generation of weapon systems now and the weapons are disseminated and they don't have a view and it could be liberating of the whole of the human society that would be the adverse side of that destructive scenario they don't have a vision to liberate the masses of people because the institutions are all formulated within a condition of scarcity which has been transcended and can logically in terms of a reality but we don't have any  the average human being and qualities and what they have to walk right and you know it is one of the places suppose society is that we we have a society that doesn't focus on individual ism or dick human being that telling us about j lo about somebody in a new york yankees oh yeah that's who we read about and who we see on the corporate to hear them and then we see ordinary people who are struggling to improve their lives and just makes a great difference very often when i would about to didn't common they don't even that's not possible yeah they did not build the pyramids with slave labor here and we want to know how the average person in our society makes out you know it's so obvious there is no projecting as a premise that throughout all of human history there and it is down to zero it couldn't be zero but throughout all of human history there were always more overwhelmingly more have nots than haves and that would be not only in terms of material ability to eat but also knowledge and knowing and things of that sort there were getting and he said that we have we had come up to were and by night we can are the st world war to say you'd reached a point where in his reckoning something on the order of ten percent of the world population could be seen to be as by then coming out of history where there were always overwhelmingly more have nots in were in scarcity it was a city and he said we reached by  the nd world war with technology and his reckoning the technology was getting more sophisticated ability to provide was getting more to go there we had a procedure ration where something on the order of twenty percent of the world population could be seen to be haves an inherited institutions twenty year period up to project one thousand nine hundred and seventy two when we would cross the fifty percent mark and not in terms of the reality the political existing reality but in terms of our capability through good design and through technological capability of providing life support and advancement progression then we would reach the point where fifty percent of the world's population on this trend would be able to be seen to be have they've had to come to some way of defining what do you mean by i have some people think you're not a have unless you live in a palace with swimming pool full of diamonds or something they've got these kind of thing with gender stands how  we crossed the fifty percent mark where there would be in our terms of our capability more haves and have nots for the st time in two hundred thousand years of human evolution and the trend is going so that the thing is saying that there are that through through time the number of people that could be seen to be have through technological advancement into the process the number of people who could seem to be haves would be forty five dollars we were imported we were gestating we crossed that line in one thousand nine hundred and seventy and that we were transcending scarcity as an ontological reality out of all two hundred thousand years of human history collectively and does it make sense or is if so facto absurd which is the default situation that you find in terms of the way the world is reported upon that it is never possible for there to be non scarcity as as a reality because human desires and human needs are insatiable and there can never be the it's so factor to assume that there you can never have a situation where there is enough where there isn't enough in a growing ability to be even abundant capability for everyone within which our social economic political and thought patterns would be formulated with an understanding that there is enough or the transcending of scarcity the default situate this default position i that's impossible there's no point thinking about it is never brought up is never mentioned anything or never brought up what do you think about that is it possible we could ever have a situation that would transcend the iron clad laws the players less still a question which  was so important and today we have the digital techno ops who could take over you know we could find the computer store and everything including the labor well i think so may i  that's another issue that's another issue to be brought up and it brings up really big issues but i wonder that's a huge issue i mean because we're being rejoined to nature we were in nature when we were embedded in nature on the serengeti plain we perceive environment multiply since our only all at once the way the creatures do you would do it extrasensory really you would be through that and then we started extending our conscious disproportionately since orally we extended we got a tremendous commitment to the  into visual through print mr mcluhan's it was a major metaphor for western rational thinking was the stringing out of everything along and alphabetized system linear and were not being rejoined to nature electronically and were living electron in the youth they're living multisensory really all at once an electronic world that's happening rd advance of things so there's all that kind of thing that that's going on we're being rejoined to nature but at a level where we have a knowledge of it and that's a different that's a different well yeah the question comes down to practically is can take not that that's the nd thing the st premise is is it possible is it possible that we've transcended scarcity material scarcity as a reality there was never it was always scarcity for two hundred thousand years until one thousand nine hundred and seventy there were always more it had it doesn't matter what we think it's what six estate yeah that's what i'm saying no it doesn't matter we think it's it is never mentioned it's never brought up is never thought of as anything other than it so i know i know when when i  may have actually transpired and it would be the biggest shared paradigm shift in the history of mankind and nope and it overlooked that's what i'm saying is overbooking is it makes ask it we suppose we take that trend instead of just taking it from seven  fifty two to seventy two make that trend and take it out a one thousand years if you have to take it out one hundred years are we ever going to transcend scarcity to where there is enough so each of the component parts of the human society have what it is they need not their vibe but to reach their full potential yala be in terms of their you're in are given reality are we ever going to have a well organized thing where everybody is in a certain sense vibrated from a condition where they have to prove their right to eat a piece of bread or something maybe that you understand what i'm saying i understand what you're saying there's a qualitative maybe or maybe we're barkin to the wrong tree ok talk maybe it's not about scarcity ok maybe it's about security and maybe our security is falsely perceived to come by owning certain pieces of property or food or or entitle meant to where the food comes from maybe it's not about that where i think you're right don't you i mean for one thing you better the robots are going to take over yes and i would think that that's a very real possibility yes and that they should and also because they should both realize the business sector also you know the profit motive i mean that seems to be just a mean that's another issue it's an economic issue on how we can always or how am i not to look at how you're going to form capital and how much capital are going to have available to do what you're technologically capable of do and how you can distribute income i mean that's another issue the major premise is it impossible why is it never or is the idea of there being enough that we reached a point where is the a birth side of the destructive scenario well there is enough  and within the bounds of a look that a qualitative transformation has taken place in terms of the reality and we do not address it we don't recognize it because it's very it when they went through going copernicus and that came and they they they went away from yet her honest bosh it was anxiety written large when they discovered that this was not in the center of the universe it really was upsetting to people's identity so if you go through a thing where you're going to upset get rid of the institutions that have been formulated within a condition of where people had earned the right to eat you have all these buddhist ethics preordain at the call the ethics that were  to a condition of their not being enough and so forth and the work ethic and so forth people got their identity by what they do i'm a bus driver i'm a teacher i'm at this i'm a that and is that all being critics who i have dinner with mother in laws and father in laws who live in cuba have free transportation there is no rent there is no cost for medical or dental treatment and there is no cost for education even higher education even medical school is free in cuba so they have a different system and they say their pollo in a to the united states and castro was mr and so on back and can i can i propose something yes sure go ahead when you have false flag terror going on you need a patsy you need something to blame it on now when you say a country is having the food it's having everything taken care of that's the same way mohamed was treated and and i os waltz and night you know patsy i am very suspicious and i'm out there in t land email me at the end of this there will be my email if anyone can give me a good reason i'd like to know why is kuantan i'm a band q but i just put it out well ok it's a detention facility a piece of land reality controlled by the united states through the door goal that just seems really strange to me we're controlling a prison and everybody's upset about all the torture going on that implies that we can stop the torture going on that implies that we can get into that country there's something isolated fortified section of cuba but that's not seen it just seems to me if we have the power to say torture or not torture we would have the power to do anything else in which case we're living seems to me some so in this general question of is it possible that we have transcended material scarcity or not if in science you know the scientist says he's measured this he's measured that and the resources are there and yet people are struggling and suffering then the question is why are those who have power feeling that they can't share that to me is a more interesting question what do we do are we able to come about that the institutions haven't caught up to the reality that scarcities been transcend what would you do and you had a your it's not a moral consideration it'll just be a function of this reality descending but what does it take to present it well i've nothing against morality i think morality and ethics and that in justice are we should we get what you press that we want to be for justice but you just want justice for everybody we want caring we want we want all these things and that's all very very good and people are just birds your leaders have been telling us that ever since forever jesus right but isn't everybody and has been roundly ignored by the political play it doesn't work it doesn't know it is round be ignored the fellows the play with their doors anymore you know because it's now species lethal it's no longer where they can just be like bob you dons beat up and take over the territory on the north side or something it's species l creates the wealth so we believe the workers and the people create the wealth but that doesn't mean the capitalist class is totally selfish because there are tremendous i radical you believe that this is the people so well to begin with and they really have no in title meant to it and that they really didn't earn it the capital they didn't create scarcity or not or what the reality is and the other thing is what are the relations between the people and it seems to me that the socialist thing is that they are the import to production if you talk about all these systems that they've understood or maybe we're coming to a time of transcending our relationship to the universe or consciousness that may or may not have a pattern to it we don't know there's been a lot of projections about what the universe is all about and for you know spiritual terms they understand the whole universe we don't we're evolving we're coming into a new relationship and it's opera or mystery we get to another level we have another relationship to but we don't know now we're in the womb we don't know what the universe is outside of opera or mystery and we may get to a point where we'll be in a higher relationship to to do that evolutionary pattern but we're not there but the thing they were not there now were in the womb we're about to leave the room where if we get it so that the whole system like an organism is operating and everybody is able to realize their full and were able to realize their full potential would be for everyone like people jamming in an orchestra and everybody's doing it the way they feel states is super power the the kind of thing that they assume as being historically legitimate for the end of time we can establish it in all the world i just had a program a couple days ago a dime in and she was talking about how we got a system is the best ever it can be fixed you can be changed and everything like that or is there a new qualitative transformation that's needed for us to realize the potentiality that the inherited institutions that we have are we had on john regime  old order the order this been in place per one thousand years after rome you had it on john regime everybody got their identity by dynastic states and so forth is ours a two hundred and thirty year old regime tied into the idea of how we're going to form our society form capital how we're going to distribute income and so forth and we're outdated and we need something new we don't have a vision of what the future requires because we haven't even last on the st principle of qualitative transformation that has occurred that we've trends and scarcity in how are we going to form capital how we're going to make the decisions and feasibility studies mixing both private and public sector ideas of what the t were on our way i would submit that this system in the united states is in a certain sense of full spectrum dominance trying to impose upon the world is in fact an on shot regime it's out of touch with what the requirements of the future are because context of the planetary evolution of events and what has been super the context we set up two hundred and thirty years ago has been superseded and we're caught up with old outdated ideas like how everybody's got an earned their right to live and to own the capital assets that are increasingly responsible for production and the major premise of all the theoretical economics which informs politics is the labor theory of value and it doesn't matter if you're a marxist imported now keep it on the chart i don't care because she will changing it you have to hold it steady ok ok so you want you're showing this yeah you know what just tending is the import between our one side labor whereas by labor you mean all human activity ok and on the other side is everything else so tet would be with land that would be with technology that would be with capital instruments and that would be the trend in the american economy as a mentor kaname for the world that's the way the world is going what is happening is labor and that's not just wheelbarrows that's labor mental intellectual intellectual and physical import to production it is less and less human that is responsible for production and it's more and more technology and systems that are not responsible and yet we distribute all income to the masses ask anybody other than a few down in wall street and all the income is distributed to the masses of the people by their labor they're like mark says quote we labor slaves wage slaves and the situation the way it works the production is achieved is less and less labor is more and more technological instruments or other things other than labor and those things are usually represented in what they call corporate stock or capital assets and the capital assets are all owned by a plutocratic class of people with a little bit of you know like that and they accept the idea that is perfectly all right st of all group of people to set the template for everybody else set  a blinkered view of economics that blinkers not only the left or the right but are also in progress obviously i think it's perfectly alright to distribute coats it's perfectly all right the the people the people who are people in the ownership of capital instruments and technology that is producing wealth as a way not only of forming capital were able to do give us a chance to do what we're fully capable of doing but distributing income out of the masses and then that's going to work what we have to do with my suggestion is i mean the book i like in terms of the practical realities is not the communist manifesto is the capitalist manifesto there's about three editions and all the world but you have to democratize ownership of technological instruments by the masses so that that's not only a way of forming more capital for us to do or collectively able to but also by the fact that they have a private property ownership rights of technology that they then have a stream of income that has nothing to do with what they do you'll end up with a population of people that have a steady stream of income to live well and even affluent really meet the problems of the technology the technology can provide in terms of giving us life support for the whole system and then people are going to be free from having to earn a living and people are going to be free to be able to pursue their own muse you may people are in there would say that's anarchy and the people that are in the position you're going to let people be free we're all i want it's like we need frederick douglass we live in a system of slavery is a system of slavery now and you're going to free the human spirit to be concerned with the things that really matter and then they will get together like fellows in an orchestra not because somebody is ordering them to go there they want to have their whole life dictated by some template set up by a few people who own everything keeping it all to themselves you know the democratization of the human spirit and a renaissance of the human spirit which would allow people to do what it is they're what they want to do rather than what they have to do in order to have the right to and we were talking about an ex sex slave who got over mind control government imposed mind control and then we took collins and you can imagine is there sex slavery in the white house is provocative so that it was lighting up in the control room yeah molly was handling it with allen and there was one color i remember getting it and i just internally have it just freaking out because this guy goes yeah i dig it well you had what i thought you know yeah you know some people get off on having to be up everybody up for sale birth somebody who has it in the way to do it it seems to me used to maybe not maybe socialism is the way but maybe it's just you just socialize or even do it through government but there's a lot of private sector  everyone's discovering that that support should they go out to forty two dollars and i sunbathe get some item and it seems to have an impact on everything well yeah good if we get through good design we can have things oh yeah but i mean if the market is able to be there in every news of liberating order but we gotta get it's just quality time a qualitative difference or something new and i don't think i think this labor theory of value has to be attacked we do know that airplanes are safer if they have no pilot triple redundancy really and we're coming to you or do you want to have somebody checking you want to do the labor thing you want to create labor so there you go being like pulling the pyramids i think the white house is safe if it had no you doesn't want you want you want to have you have to say that you can have you know if you could do a thing where you can create productive capability and you don't have to have a lot of people doing things remember which state but in the weeks to come very soon and from my arizona bid ok go did that got a report on this and we got all carried away and everything like that but listen i don't know it's my thinking i got this idea i think these are some ideas that we're heading now without some sort of a wake up call was that we're going to blow the whole thing up i think they're heading to blow the whole thing i mean it's very distressing ok it's distressing well that's i think they're probably been destroyed