welcome very much to conversation a pleasure to welcome to the program a friend of conversations from way back we were just reminiscing go back ten years or so but that being joseph reverend joseph ben david he's the through your background you spent time in israel you were involved with some great people you know martin buber and others but do you to go through it quickly and then let's get down to deal with this talk that you're going to get the substance of what you're preparing that level because that's an important issue the idea of a rule brittania brittania rules the waves of broom written well nationalism the idea that when we are the best britain is the best we are number one you look at sports teams and they say the yankees are number one or something everybody thinks their number even everybody has guns think they are better number one they think that so i mean it's not just the jews who think of good and they're the chosen people a lot of people will say we're the chosen be we're number kind of thing hate it's human hate ok and many nations hate each other in the same way but they hate people who think and assert themselves like the nazis came and they said they were ariens so they are the super race or they are the ober mention in german language or something like that the idea that some people think they are able to be better than other people is that people who are suffering from all of that today and the idea idea ok but then ok we do have a world that has different classes and we think materialistically are economically some people are very very wealthy other people are not having even nuff to eat and so forth there's going to be upset with the people or western colonialism we had five hundred years after columbus where their western colonial powers went out and colonized all the world set up the thing in india and walked roughshod over the people and so forth so that people are going to object to people coming in saying we're better white man's burden they remember the term white man's burden they had that they had to go out and civilized the world that kind of thing so the people who are being submitted to that let's slavery slavery exist so people that have been put in a position of people asserting the people that assert that they were mentioned they are better people or them they did humanize the people of the less in order to keep controls or for this reason for people to hate if somebody has been oppressing you know you see dishes there one thing that i discovered  already is considered a concerned with is keeping his job getting his salary and just take care of the family yes that is he so but i'm know this so what happened to that person who became imbued with the spirit that was animating from adolf hitler saying we are a master race we are the people they have they were going to get rid of the lesser people that we are an advanced people these are and they will dehumanised other people in order to assert their power over those other people and that's happened a lot in history has it not  not had all and m to control or the lives of people sense of identity be on that with their mired in it is in here vision to make them feel like you're full human beings like they should really and so for yeah it's a way out of that you know now we have this is marx called is really the inability to see a reality an idol is something that is different than it appears or i message of our spiritual where people who have come jesus ok right right right most people understand under that war something that emanates from holy books the christians for example i understand god only because they f the flower and deflower so if they believe in a god that is based on certain books they just believe in where they are war shipping something that does not exist while their real meaning of lot is totally beyond that comprehension is the real meaning of god beyond human comprehension or are there some who under snow and that in them some understand that in one religious tradition and there seems to be a similarity of basic thought or principles between all the great and he was so desperate because he could not he felt he the meaning of life had something to do those last days in beach there would be peace and justice and freedom in the me are you talking now as we get each other and so on but they are not attacking for the sake of attacking something they have to attack because they have to eat not just for him and you were a motive to dominate so that a person who is devoted whose life is devote it to and not dignity that is associated with this creative process that added in with dog if you want to use that water and if you don't want to use their water you don't have to well ok i'm wondering because my mind and i'm sorry my mind goes along the lines of when you say creative and nested in six hundred million years ago the evolutionary process of achieved a certain state and you could be there and you could saying we're creating everything is fine everything is fine let's just be here put some curtains up on the  and then there's a fourth there's an impetus to change something different and you call that predatory or you or you could call that a force of evolutionary direction and if we had stayed in the primordial ooze we'd still be in the prim ooze and we wouldn't have arrived at i are states of consciousness that that we have through through the whole evolutionary process so i mean you have different is not the predatory function that could be thought of as male moving out or tensional integrity to go through a whole system that you're concerned with the system but you have a movement to change and there's impetus to change you know what i'm saying so a prayer it to make it good in evil as though the one is creative and the other is not is a little bit i think it's a little bit not in keeping with the reality in terms of what the reality is it's the complexity of of forces that are operative in consciousness or in the universe it's like the the creative process in nature really means the application of the best that human kind was able to produce reach means because you don't have to you don't have to use the board because and still the highest in that sense one of the dilemma is if i may is that we come along and we come two hundred thousand years ago apparently we appear mitochondria tells us and that we had a self homo sapiens have a self reflective conscious who are able to think about things in an abstract way think about things about what's it about the probably doesn't occur to a crocodile  to other creatures they do not think they just live in a very reflexive way we have the reptilian core within our structure that we have but we have an ability to think about these things in a higher in a certain level of consciousness that we think about and so one of the things people are gabled to do i'm like perhaps maybe they do we don't know we but if we could sit in front of a campfire in a cave days on the serengeti plain and contemplate what's it all about where the creatures don't think that way by and large they just money gets they just react and i know so then we want to start thinking is there something is there some purpose to it what's it all about kwanzaa questions that come up from that in that self and so they want some answers to what is this all about whereas that was not part of the mission of the evolutionary process until we got to this stage in terms of the doing as they were saying so we get it so they want something to make understand the world and what's it all about so they come up and they create miss they create stories they give some sort of meaning and they also are able to reflect upon the fact that they are going to die which i'm not at all sure that creatures have that sense of things that they get ability to have that sense of thing and that ultimate question of the fact that we're born and then we die these large issues or become part of so they come up with ideas that give some other meeting to it because they need some sort of meeting to fill that void that is unique to humans but not others or something that you know i mean so they come up with religions and things and divine notions of what they're more united up on and we've had people that are sharman zur people that are in touch with the divine nature they get a divine quality and we've had great spiritual leaders and then there are messages are corrupted by institutions that follow and don't follow what the religious leaders said they all had well you know i mean th answer well we were talking about the need to have some idea of what the world is all about by homo sapiens around you need a kind of way an existential questions that come up right and their religions get corrupted by people who follow in order for political power purpose of life is not just enjoying it is ok not saving the war all right all right yeah tradition is that you got a patients and idea that things are maturing and things are coming in the future and that's bill's intent was a big because we have that we have that in christianity or in judaism and then they've got the second coming and the christians were the christians rising jesus was the messiah jews are saying prophetically that that's coming you think this is what was right you think this is right in the coming the world his image is maturing and  becoming to a state of liberation but not this that we're in now so the messiah is coming it's in the future and that idea of a future patients for the future in a maturing process that is going to be transformative in a liberating way is an interesting differentiation around and you know i think that our president committed biggest mistake of his life for attacking the sea of islam he's not aware of what it no displacing of everybody anybody it will be in a world of elemental just as it exists in the prophetic tradition and people say that the whole design is an enterprise over through the whole prophetic tradition here in order to sign onto a thing destructive druck of capitalism where you just store the old never new enter printer old thing that come to make something new that kind of a thing of destructive but the idea of aggressive quality in terms of the nature it's east and west it's  there they're both needed in order for the thing to come but justice has been so much a part of it and we don't have justice in the world i thought president carter the other hand is do we live in a just world of course not it's gotten worse in the twentieth what so tell me something what is happen if you look at history there's always been a few people who ran things and most the people were walling around in the mud of poverty and whatnot serfs and slaves in various forms to the few people who had power to require other people to do things what is it that has changed in james joyce called history a nightmare from which on attempting to awaken ok what has changed that makes it possible that we can have universal justice for all everybody the kind of thing that the judaic scriptures said was the conditions under which israel would be reborn a world of universal justice where everybody is liberated in a way what is change that makes this time different than all of history that like we have a capability of providing an answer in the ancient scourge technologies of war the book we've got a point we're going destroy those species with our weapons we got a point where we could liberate humanity from material scarcity and have universal judd that was not characteristic of history but it is the technologically augmented development of faculty and understanding capability to make the world like an art object to conserve everybody we have a capability that was simply was not there in history does that make this a particularly pregnant time in terms of good but i want to be better so i want to find out what my weaknesses and where what is my sense of defeating behavior  neither of these conditions it's applicable to the people in power today no it's not because even unedited out in store for money doesn't have enough money do you know what i'd buy the whole war and they don't have a vision that will allow that to come in being but there's a capability for us to transit in that it kept us limited to a power struggle drought history this may be a time when those conditions change fundamentally to where the the  longings of the prophetic tradition are now coming to work we have a capability of making this world sing for everybody and all the great authors have that it is unprecedented and i'm telling you all that i know we don't have a system that allows us to do we're capable of doing that schizophrenia that act right we have a capability of taking care of the woman does not decide which baby is going to die because we have enough food to feed everybody and we don't have a system let us do what we know we're capable of doing immense and it's gorgeous no wonder the which they have not built have to give up something in order to accomplish or they may be able to have it to be where everybody's liberated but those people are going to also be included be able to in the end they'll be able to understand there's a new human is an extraordinary and everything and a talking about some issues that are really important thank you very much for viewing will be coming back again tomorrow joseph ben david thank you very much for coming in for just baiting in this and for such a very well led life that continues  i gear i thank you very much for always a pleasure to be on your program it's always a pleasure talking with you and i will see it tomorrow please do tune in and everything so i moved out on some big subject but i think this is the time this is the time you know it's  it's a really challenging time i'm very nervous about the state of the world they're making new generations of atomic bombs and they're fighting over animals issues and i'm no decisions so what do you think you think is optimistic for the one prospect or