tonight and two of our items and that number is one three four six two four eight seven seven nine nine webinar ideas nine two zero three nine five zero  two three zero found and then that will get you in then your press pound once more to join the meeting start nine are requests to speak and start six to unmuted i will now ask for the director of economic development it's been something city council has been talking about for some time and i know there's been a lot of great public comment through all the different committee meetings i would also like to acknowledge the late comments and  sorry about that just to push the button twice or so some such thing my apologies first of all thank you very much for making some time on the agenda to talk about this as the mayor mentioned in the economic development director but tonight i'm here in my capacity as the facilitator for the housing policy commission which is a subset of council six members involved with that talk a little bit more about that in just a moment but part of the reason that we're here tonight is to make certain that the body of the whole  access to the information that the housing policy commission has been working on here for quite some time i refer to the housing policy commission very frequently as the hpc that acronym so if i use hpc that's the name that stands for commission so without further ado we share my screen and i'll run through the elements of the staff memo real quick so folks know what we are referring to while you're doing that assessment i'm going to let the no i mean we have a line of something that you see that doesn't look like it's a very good document seems like we have partya screen sir one to one side or the that a little better sir all right i just wanted to go through all of the reasons and ways that we got here with the housing policy commission obviously really we've done a lot of research and whatnot it's the charge has been to talk about short term rentals somtimes i'll refer to short term rentals with the initials stark but short term rentals are those rentals that are twenty nine or fewer days and they've been popularized in many of the last years with the platforms that allow for or up to twenty nine days so of that so that's what the the hpc has been working on and that's what we're going to be talking about a little bit this evening and getting some direction from council in that way so as i mentioned the two primary purpose to present to the whole council a summary of the research is is very difficult because six members of council have had the opportunity to really study this and really get a lot of public input on five members of council that are serving on other committees haven't yet so it's very difficult to come in and ask a council in this meeting and i will let folks down in on the on the call know that this is not the last of the conversation this is a study session so really we're just getting direction tonight there's no votes being taken and so if you feel strongly about this  moved our schedule around quite a bit and still we were able to get at elements together in forward at this time so that's how we got here and again we're working with the short term rentals there were six meetings all of those meetings had public comment attach with them i'll characterize the public comment as kind of running the spectrum there were folks that didn't believe that short term rentals were appropriate for the city of lakewood they felt they changed neighborhoods to dramatically and then there were folks that really supported the idea of short term rentals investors so in other words all of the commission agreed that folks came in and bought houses just for the purposes of doing short term rentals that was a no no they didn't really want to support that so most of the suggestions proposals that we have over night don't allow for that to referred to as home sharing or it's where somebody occupies the dwelling or some percentage of the year or some portion of the year and the portion of time that they're not there are a potentially rented out short term twenty nine  section where you don't do that says stars aren't allowed but they aren't explicitly allowed so that gives our code enforcement our police force the authority they need to not allow these things to continue to operate but they are operating in here part of the reason for this established what are the rules going forward would be and we'll talk about the two directions that we see that going one way or the other to commissioners i didn't think that would be appropriate three of the commissioners did think that it might be appropriate to do a home sharing some kind of home sharing program as long as the guardrails were still sturdy enough that a rules were put into place to protect folks in the community from some of the bad things that might meeting last month and they said yes let's take them forward to this study session and that's how we got here today having said all of that we're going to go over three document you documents on here one that elicitation document there are some things that aren't basically a minimum distance between those short term rentals we can do a minimum distance just like a lot of other businesses that we regulate by distances liquor stores aren't allowed to be wthin certain distances of schools and that sort of thing we can also regulate short term rentals with some kind s all of the rules that apply to neighborhoods right now still would apply those ordinances disturbing the peace and all of those sorts of things what would be the exact same but we can also put in a regulation  and created that draft ordinance it's in your pocket a little bit more about that we've got a draft program outline it's not the program itself it's not the collateral pieces that i would use for that program it basically describes what those pieces would be or how they would go with the elements that would be included in them so that we can take a look at it kind of that general sort of feel to it and if we were to move forward with it we would be then refining those and coming up with those documents for the first one is really kind of an either or and that's the way the staff use it now we need to do something about short term rentals either need to put them into the code so that they're allowed it could become lawful or we need to put it into the code explicitly that they're not allowed others that we're interested is if there is a decision that kind of move forward with it are there more specific direction for those blanks or those elements that we talked about that aren't quite filled in yet from the council to give us that lead so if we come back with an additional or essentially the first part was kind of the the types of short term rentals investment properties versus home sharing i've already shared with you the commission didn't think that investment properties were appropriate but that home sharing in some fashion should be allowed so there was there was some wanted to talk just a little bit about the home sharing the owner occupied one i wanted to make sure that our audience was clear that that was kind of further broken down for discussion purposes into  earlier whether it's a certain amount of days or months per year that that owner needs to be in that unit but there was also discussion about whether the owner needs to be present during the rental itself so i wanted the community and  my fellow councilors to be aware that when we're talking about homeshare that could be when the owner is say away maybe they're visiting europe for six weeks can they rent out their place while they're away or is it only that they can do that while they're there to supervise the rental activity so all that's up for discussion i just wanted to clarify at home sharing can be further subdivided and be thinking about that as we kind of look at all these anywhere the residential might be allowed these things could potentially operate as opposed to finding them certain kinds of building there was some discussion about multi family units apartment units being used for short term rentals generally speaking that's along the way there but essentially if you're renting property from somebody else generally speaking didn't want to rent it or sublet it to two other folks it's a little too far away from the owners and owner ownership of these of these short term rentals so we talked a lot about owner occupied i'm going to scroll through this document again i won't be going over each and every one of these elements to the idea here is to give some level of summary and then answer questions so different kinds of structures generally not available for and not trailer generally not eligible for this as proposed right some of the licensing that would need to take place they need to be a sales tax license and a larger tax license on these these kinds of properties both of those are required generate revenue for the city you may hear later on in the revenue discussion or in previous revenue discussions about short term rentals providing some level of additional revenue to the city that would be through the collection of those taxes not through the collection of insurance is an important element of this the commissioners recognize that and realize that you'll need an additional level of insurance on these short term rentals on a normal house owner's policy won't cover the kinds of things  there is a bottom one there allow the applicant to perform their own safety inspections the commissioners didn't believe that would be a good idea they really wanted a third party to do that or hotels the city actually was building inspectors the police force goes out kinds of things you can also include that they need to have safety requirements which not touched a little bit on that but you know based on the local code no nothing that would be difficult for folks and and to do you know kind of a heightened level of being able to to work with the properties we talked a lot about community notification good neighbor program and i think that title was one of the colorado springs folks use for their program down there but essentially it's to be a good neighbor to let folks know that you're applying for this kind of license that you're going to be running a short term rental in the we'll talk a little bit about the fact that it's kind of a two part process and in between those two parts is when you would do a lot of  would be a good idea to do that a lot of the rental platforms have gone to the point of not necessarily putting out addresses or whatnot until they can secure rentals off there so the goal here and the the safety folks talked a lot about this is that if you identify a house as a short term rental house and people are on nefarious folks are chasing the neighborhood if you've got something that clearly indicates that this is a short term rental home that might invite problematic behavior out of folks as opposed to have all of the things that you would anticipate that they would have on there with additional things and when we get to the program outline we'll talk about what those things reiterate once again after we got the opinions of the commissioners on this elici we're still working our way through that as the staff we know that there may be potentially up to hundreds of these things out in the in the area there as i mentioned are unlawfully operating at this point but we do know that some are operating out i don't know how many of them let's say that just for the sake of argument there were three hundred of them in all three hundred of them applied on a monday that would put an incredible burden on our staff in terms of trying to process those applications get them moving in the right direction and whatnot so we may have to ra up staffing and that sort of like we want to make certain program is able to pay for those costs and to handle those things so that we can expediently get that going we all believe that once the program is up and operating if there's a lot of these kinds of things in draft there was an additional restriction questions on there should there be occupancy limits you know in addition to what the house might able to handle and the and the answer was generally yes so those kinds of things can be you two separate once again on there and that brings us to the end of this elicitation so the commissioners all put their input in there we took all that information and we took it to the staff and i'd like to say thank you to the to the staff that worked on these draft documents i'm about to go to a couple of times and this is the basic way the plan comes together you start with that blue box number one the applicant submits the complete applicants with all of the attachments that need to happen that first time pays the application to the city clerk's office that's who would be administer round of the application and if all of those things are met they'll give a written go ahead that says hey you need to move on to the next phase of this because there's a second phase of the application process in the black box but you've got to do the the third step  that green box in there where you perform all the neighborhood notifications you reach out to your neighbors and say hey we're working on this this short term rental application you do the inspections to make sure that you've got all the necessary documents so that you can turn in all of those or that box number four which is the whole shebang that's the final application all of the elements are in there you either have everything in there adequate and that makes sense to issue the license or you don't have all of those things and halbertal the ordinance got separated when i went out here for just a moment so i'll come back to the ordinances in your pocket but it's a draft ordinance as i mentioned the planning crew did a great job in terms of finding out i'm going to talk a little bit about this rough program outline  now which is all of the elements that were in the elicitation document taken one step further just so everyone's aware rather than do a complete program that may or may not be needed at this point because council the body ofthe whole may they say hey we don't think short term we did put a number in there and the staff will have to do that if we find that get that down to what we think is our best think because again the goal is to cover the cost we did put in this document just the fact that the lifeblood license is seven hundred and fifty dollars is  hundred we're not trying to necessarily set the price we're not saying that that's where it's at why the sdr license might be revoked in the process for handling complaints would be a document that everyone would be able to have access to particularly the folks that are doing these short term and then all of the elements of good neighbor pro me a list of the safety inspection elements that that document that might go to the house inspection company so that you can get that ongoing education materials all of that would be collateral materials that we would need to produce as part of this program if it were to move forward kind of outlined the application all of that general information on there the homeowner would have to have some level of acceptance of the contact information as being valid twenty four seven that's one of those things where if something going wrong with the house we want to be this were to get licensed yes we can get you that additional level of coverage that you need to be so as you go through that process you can get that done in the final you have to have that certification you can't be issued that license after the final because there's two steps it allows for folks that are pursuing this license to have a two step sort of a back to your initial document is that the map showing designated parking space with one of the concerns that came up a would also be that map showing the distances between other short term rentals being able to identify where those those are in relationship to that you need a copy of the county title document make sure that the people that are on the title are the i mean you'd have to have that same safety inspection report you're doing it from that third party but it says that the mechanical is great and that there are the smoke and carbon monoxide are in there we went through the education program we did all of those things so that we know how to be good neighbors and that our neighbors know what what we're working on some of the requirements there are the home sharing owner there's investor properties as i mentioned as far as the person authorized by that document that shows all the things that we're if there is any kind of safety complaint or there was some kind of a problem with the safety of the unit and not the license could be temporarily suspended while that gets corrected if it gets corrected it needs to be r the the requirements of the but as i mentioned it's on site prominently displayed it's got the star license on there so when you get through this process you would get a license number that's got to be on that placard so that if there's a problem you know exactly who parked here go get your car put the right spot so that you're not embarrassed by the process timeline we talked a little bit about that with a flowchart but it's the two based sort of approach got that initial you've got that good neighbor program that outreach program that safety inspections may require twenty hours of staff time in order to maintain these kinds of things or we would need an outside vendor to offset the staff did do the staff team did do a consultation with one of the commercial folks that do this kind of management of stars to find out what they could and couldn't do what we determine is there's no turnkey program that handles everything that we would want it to handle in other words we can't turn it over to somebody else and not have any staff time on this staff would have to be involved with the program at some point we may be able to offset it with a company that could help us do certain parts of that process but we get offloaded to somebody that would tat would take care of everything that we  to work with the licensees obviously the licenses wouldn't be paying necessarily for folks who don't get licensed the police and the code enforcement people need to work with those folks but there should be a recognition that that does some level of  some kind of wrongness going on so those kinds of things would be allowed for ordinance to be able to to see what's on there it has traditional ordinance language it outlines all of the things that are on there but we have those those blanks still in our distances and that sort of thing in the ordinance if council were to decide that we want to move forward with that we that's ok i just want to go over a couple of things again i want to thank miss franks for all of her hard work as the chair really putting this together and also the members which consist of so what counsel i would like to do is i'd like to go through and have you ask a couple of questions on this proposal or what you just saw then i'd like to do a quick check in and see if we're at least to a point of do we want to continue going for not and then i want to based upon that go to the community input because we certainly have a lot of interest from the community so with that we'll do some rounds of questions and then i'll do a check in and see which way we want to go we'll hear from the community that we can come back based on that and continue so mister abel you are first thank you and i will have more than i have more than a couple questions but if we're going to have more than one round that's fine i'll start with a couple is that the case  new practice out there in the zoning world also known as home sharing whereby a residence is divided up according to bedrooms and bathrooms and each individual that lives there are either holds a lease to or owns a bedroom and a bathroom and a communal areas are held together so i would like to make sure that we define home sharing and our terms in the definition so that a two or we're talking at home sharing as in short term rentals and the other practices according to our own ordinance you can have a home business in lakewood but it is one of two types a minor home business or a major home this  kind of traffic parking and other monitoring and licensing would make this seem to be a major home business which has certain rules that answer a lot of the questions here especially just because the major home business can only be located on the corner  first two and we define home sharing that our purposes and where do we come down on the home business is major or minor thank you mister smith defining home sharing is done within the ordinance there is a section of home sharing defined with regard to short term rentals it's not in the definition while we're looking it looks like robert's looking at that do we have an answer to the minor versus major or some input on that a participant in the short term rental discussion and greg graham is on the line because he's participate in that one thing i want everybody to remember is that licencee and zoning are two different processes  so keep the two separate zoning licensing or two separate processes and no licensing may not supersede zoning so those as we hear the input from council tonight regarding some of these issues we'll go back into the the draft ordinance and make sure these issues are clarified so with those just general thoughts i'm going to mute myself and let greg answer any questions questions i honestly don't have a good answer regarding the the use question the major home business versus a minor home business i do know that when we first discussed  might we might need to revisit that with them have that conversation with them and then get back to you on that so that's the in home business section i'm sorry i forgot what the other question was mister you go i can't wait till we get back live the other was simply just at our definition of home sharing in the definition section so someone will come back later and refer to the codify that as being also it's important to note that we do need to have something very defined because as this is a area that is continuing to evolve you now have commercial companies w contacting as part of their business model homeowner offering to renovate part of their house to make more appealing and entering into contractual arrangements for the renovations for a revenue sharing so turns it almost like into a b and b type situation where the person the owner lives there but they're in a contractual relationship with somebody who shares the profits which then turns it into a  an investor type occupation so again lots of permutations here i also did want to talk about the research that i've done on the major versus minor doesn't mean the research is all inclusive but many municipalities came down on the side of minor being more that it's an accessory use when it's a homeowner and even though outdoor spaces meaning the people are using the patios and such that didn't cross over  that doesn't mean that's where we have to land but i did want folks to know that that was an area of research and the accessory use but knowing that people renting may use outdoor spaces for  well i just wanted to weigh in because i've been involved in working with councilors in the county of denver on this same issue as well  s representing people on this issue in the county of denver and so i know how really really compl vote on whether these are allowed or not allowed and i wonder if there's a third option which might be we leave things as is and i don't know if that's an option interesting idea because i think this is such a complicated issue and people have such a variety of opinions on this we have seen so many messages on both sides of the issue that it it's a really difficult thing to vote on on behalf of our constituents and so i'd kind of like to ask about that and whether that's an option but it's just as far as  who are involved in enforcement and they have actually crossed over into the realm of prosecuting people criminally and so that's a whole different set expenses and s i guess one of my questions is if you really look at an and then and then you have the issue of appeals so if people don't like that their license has been one of the questions certainly counsel can refer anything to the ballot as far as an ordinance goes the goal tonight is to get some sort of temperature from council we have been dealing with this and i know folks are going to fall all over the place it can be quite complicated but to really get to some sort of point of yes or no but if council chooses to go a different way that's certainly up to the folks here i think one of the issues we are faced with is in the presentation operating everywhere and we don't have anything really either allows us to fully enforce them not being able or allowing them to be able so we're in this weird gray area and i think that kind of direction would probably help out the city least search something at the beginning that we think will be adequate for covering the cost of the program obviously if they balloon up or there's there's changes and council members springsteen pointed out the city of denver started with one assumption and they moved into other areas now there are a whole new ballgame over there that may happen with the city of lakewood as well we would just that's why we have that kind of monitoring at every every six months and saying is this adequate with that with other other folks doing it council member not just writing it wasn't particularly discussed in the housing policy commission meetings on the way many of the applications that are on here because they involve taxation and whatnot require some are they able to operate a business because they're they're citizens of the country so to receive a public benefit you have to verify that you're lawfully present in the united states and there are there are dozens literally dozens of ways to do that but we we usually take a driver's license or a state issued id or something like that  this being issued a license for nestande lakewood or anywhere else would be considered a public benefit and so anyone applying would have to provide proof that they're legally in the country and that they're entitled to i'm aware of that also it is going to be hard to know if it guest is in the house under thirty days or under twenty nine days it seems to me that without having the placard or the sign outside for all of the residents in the neighborhood to see clearly what the occupancy should be what the parking parameters are to the twenty four seven contact persons that we actually are putting the neighbors in the position of for lack of a better word babysitting this property  they're staying in compliance i i don't know how you can tell if somebody over thirty days i don't know i think that's something that we at least need to be aware of that there and you know i don't recall in committee if we were ever given any numbers another question regarding complaints from the police department any hard  twenty nineteen or into twenty twenty but i know that i had asked the same question and miss franks provided that so i think that's something that we could i was surprised that it was pretty small but i think that also has to do with the fact we don't necessarily know who who's doing it was not right we kind of have a blurred map so and it's complaint driven to which you know it takes a certain level of frustration for people to you know i think that there is one thing that we can't ignore is that lakewood does have recreational marijuana and hotel bills obiously are not allowing their g to use those in their place to stay people do come to our state because of that going to be smelling the odor that also needs to be part of one of the pieces on what can be complained about in addition to noise it would be odors that's all for now i actually many thoughts on that right now questions and like i said everybody is going to have thoughts so we're certainly let's try to get our questions answered and see if we can get to some sort of you in the process of any kind of complaints even now i think normally code enforcement would be called in i mean just i'm just saying any kind of generate the control from the neighborhood i believe is that investigation is that what you remember barbara whomever's came to that question well i guess i'll maybe take a short step it really depends on the nature of the complaint obviously depending on level of severity you know they have to dispatch police or fire or other types of folks but if you're talking about maybe a noise complaint or parking or that type of thing my understanding is yes that it would continue to be code enforcement for nothing differently so i'm looking and seeing cathy nodding yor head so yes it would be that same process that that would be utilized but certainly we're wondering if if we do move forward to this that the renters would be able to have access to knowing who to call for fire who to call for emergency making sure nine one one so the appropriate folks could could be reached so i think it varies based on the severity but no changes to the underlying what happens today if if you report a short term rental it goes to code enforcement because it's not a legal activity so it goes to them presently that's what i thought and then the other question would be in the good neighbor notification we didn't put a specific di way in zoning changes there's you know certain neighborhood i remember us discussing it but i don't remember a distance so would it need to be one hundred feet five hundred feet what would it need to be in for that notification well and i'll jump in here i think that we purposely left some of this to wear to see where council was going and if council says that they have no appetite for this and they say no but they'll be blanks to be filled in and i'm sure that as staff works through to create those when you represent your community are you generally in favor or not so we kind of give staff the right kind of direction as far as they're moving forward there'll be lots of details that have to be worked out depending on which direction we harrison that's ok i guess the good neighbor letter is really important to me simply for the fact that that's how we're going to get the word out to the neighborhoods if we decide that this is something that we want to do that all the neighbors know who to call what numbers et cetera et cetera because i'm assuming that information would need to be included in that good neighbor contact letter that goes out so that we can i had asked mister smith earlier a couple of questions so i know he'll know these now very easily but i wanted to share this information with the rest of the council and also with the community as well so i'll kind of ask them in a leading fashion just to move it along mister smith so the first question i had was as i understand it we estimate that there are roughly thirty i'm sorry three hundred  term rentals operating in lakewood at this point understanding that that's somewhat of a guess is that a fair statement the short answer is we don't know but there's been speculating of speculation that there may be as many as that in the area so we've been using that as kind of a number to work through that three hundred number but it's hard to tell at this point there on that's the number that we've been kind of working and then my second question thank you first question is just i want to understand kind of the thinking about the potential prohibition on multi family  leasing arrangements and other things that that preclude that and so you'll find that many municipalities exclude them from there of course in a way regardless of what housing stock i but that was the direction that we went was excluding them also you have the closer proximity which then you know with this type of additional foot traffic in higher traffic areas to begin with puts pressure on al the infrastructure and many municipalities looked at it from that standpoint to say if it's already multifamily and then we have this additional traffic moving that can cause safety concerns for roads and things that  for that so again there's a lot of different ways there's a thousand ways communities have done this and a thousand ways that we could look to do it as well thank you ok so so basically some of them already have regulations prohibiting this is kind of a big piece ok and then my next question is just you know from our original conversation in this i recall that one of the challenges we have is just if we do have a ban or if they're not allowed just keeping track of where they are what's happening there's not really a good process for this i think there was some kind of third party tracking system that we can hire is there is there an update on  do we want me to go again well yes there are companies that use very specific data metrics in order to be able to ascertain that obviously now with many municipalities requiring that the platforms produce a licensing number it helps with them finding the ones that that are not in compliance but they have data sources where they are able to locate the  residents without having an address through a variety of publicly available data sources and those companies are out there they have gone through a lot of acquisitions so there's been a lot of there were more companies and now there being centralized into fewer and fewer but again depending on where council goes city staff can look to see what needs to be done and do we have the staff to do that well where they may need to look for an outsourcing opportunity ok that's helpful so then that also sounds like there's been improvements on the licensing process as well and making sure that folks are getting the necessary license and that we can actually track that that's good all right well those are my questions i certainly have comments and then also just wanted to thank our resident short term rental expert councilor frinks for all of the work that you've done but everyone else on the committee as well you you al really elderly and minority folks are being pushed out by gentrification their property values have gone up so much taxes have gone up so much and so what we have very often is elderly people trying to age in place and find a way to pay their taxes and so they're using these short term rentals to do this kind of thing and so one of the questions i've always had is do we have an issue with discrimination or the fair housing act with regard to such a complex issue and in and so watch what they do in denver where the rules are not always consistent like somebody can take off to france for a year and r out their primary residence short term rental but somebody else who is living there and renting over the thirty days can get in trouble and there's just they have they have just come into this morass rules and so i'm just wondering how do we avoid all of these complications especially in terms of in forssmann when we're talking so what what are we adding in terms of what we're going to need to actually do this and make it fair and nondiscriminatory and  i wanted to address miss johnson's question in denver the way they they figure out if you're going over the twenty nine days is the enforcement people go on the site and look additional additional documents from people and then they can criminally prosaic you and so a lot of people are very scared about this whole situation and the reason i brought up the age issue here is some of the constituents we've heard from they've said that over sixty percent of these short term rentals are done by elderly people in lakewood and so they're depending on that income and this is why i say this is such a complicated issue and shouldn't be leaving this up to the voters and the people who live with this every day if this is not i heard somebody say this is not considered an in home business it doesn't fit within the categories then we're getting into that whole issue of like parking for an in home business has to be in front of your own house so we're going to have this whole are we going to have this whole set of different on what is this going to cost the city versus what we get in return in terms licensing fees or so forth it sounds to me like it's to cost the city a lot lot more than than what we're going to get out of it so i'm sorry that was kind of rambling but these are some of my concerns having dealt with so the one that kind of stuck out for me i'm just trying to translate so forgive me fair housing act discrimination as to our elderly folks and how does this apply is something somebody could answer and then i think the cost one is we're still you know that's part of our you know we'll do it the best we can we're going to have to learn as we go forward miss hudson did you want to  fair housing act does allow for licensing for example in home daycares that kind of thing in this particular instance i mean i don't personally see nobody has asked me that question before so i like this wouldn't wouldn't create a legal liability for the city as far as the discrimination issue is concerned familiar with in denver have up to eleven people staying in a basement eleven men staying in a basement with eleven bunk beds small kitchen and a small table can we prevent that sort of operation you put and are we going to be able to put occupancy limits on these things twelve peple come and stay in a little edu you that somebody built behind their house to accommodate short term rentals firstly how do we keep  away from home and even in places where there are single people using them as as temporary residence while they work for a living but how can we keep that from houses where there are any number of folks exiting through a neighborhood every morning and returning every evening i can probably answer that for you in the elicitation and the occupancy limits occupancy is a bit tougher because obviously that's what happens inside the home but the for the number of agreements the commission looked at that pretty in depth and you can either allow a single contract to be in existence at one time meaning that if i contract to rent the home owner that i'm the only one who can be there at that time so that's how you  prevent that there's also the option to say multiples many cities have gone to a single rental contract can be in existence at any one time in order to have that measure of eliminating what you just described that situation where you just described the occupancy numbers are a bit tougher because from a code enforcement standpoint if you're not able to gain access to the home and count heads but that's why the placa posting those numbers there and doing other methods where the neighbors know the numbers and that type of thing that starts to work to help that so if the occupancy is limited at four obviously neighbors would be able to see if twelve people are marching to the home so again none of this is perfect up certainly we know we had some lively discussion about all that but those are the mechanisms that other communities have used in order to not have rooming houses i prefer not to call it a flophouse but more of a rooming type of a house situation a rooming house usually provided meal things can be close that is the only way i guess we can limit the number of  short term rentals i the city i don't think we want one in every every private residence in the house so you i think we need to as a council decide not just that but the notice limit as well neighbors on either side you are not the only folks on the block affected by these things so i think we should do at least a block on both sides street and include the contact information not just from the owner but should the owner be out of town while these things are being rented we need to have something in place either require him the owner him or or are they to be home any time they have a rental contract to occupy the primary house or to have a twenty four put one of these things in also what happens with a new home buyer who comes to the neighborhood shopping on saturday and with the real estate agent and doesn't know they're buying a right next door to a short term rental i think if current residents need to be notified so do potential future  you and i think two of those things figure it out the twenty four hour contact is going to be part of that and then we have to figure out the whether it's an owner occupied where the person has to be there or not so i think those will continue to come miss johnson than miss harrison thank you i would like to go back to the issue of occupancy  obviously stats per bedroom or what but the reality is i don't know how that can even be enforced and again listening to the discussion here having th sign on the inside of the house with occupancy twenty four seven hour notification parking and different things does not help the neighbors the neighbors need to have a sign on the outside as well so that they know what's going and again we are pretty neighbors in the position of being watchdogs for a commercial business basically that's right next  i don't recall even though i was on the committee if part of the good neighbor program in which neighbors are notified of this have the ability to nix one on their block if they don't want whether there's a homeowner association in place or not people when you buy a home in a neighborhood you've place that you have certain expectations of the way that your neighborhood is going to look certainly your block and  short term rentals are businesses and if you find that there is a block someplace or people have real objection just notifying them to does not go the full length of what we need to be looking at if folks don't want one then i think that they should have the ability to say we will not support having this  that more detail that could come that's more detail that could come along the way the the general intent is for the departments to work together so if the police are responding to these sorts of things they know that it's a short term re are you ready for comments yet are we're still ok then  franks i just wanted to answer councilor johnson's question that yes we did talk about the the good neighbor program in a little bit more detail i don't know if we were keeping copious meeting minutes at that time but the discussion  surrounding like let's say i had barbs attacks surface on the neighbors don't get to weigh in whether i can operate that from my home if i register as a business so i just wanted to provide that layer of additional information that it was discussed but we don't really give other other business owners who don't have the neighbors don't have the right to say no you can't operate your tax service out of out of your home office so again just a little bit more right counsel so again i got to emphasize we're probably not all going to agree and i don't want us to have to hash out all of our opinions tonight but i want to see if there is a consensus of counsel wants to move forward with adopting an ordinance that would allow these or not which would then be another ordinance that would put us into making sure we have more context to basically banning them want to get a consensus so the community can hear that and i'd like to go to public input and then we can go back to answering some of these last questions and certainly there's going to be a lot more input needed no matter which way we go oh did i forget to take my hand down or were you looking for general comments on what our thoughts are no or your hand is up so i'm sorry that's ok ok all right m they know what to weigh in on if we're weighing in on moving forward with an ordinance or not so and again you knw no matter which way we go there's going to be a lot more time for council to really dig in and give their opinions i'm jut really looking for a mean anything unless you have some reason again like i said this is going to be rehashed again in some form or fashion i'm just trying to be judicious with our time and everybody's time tonight so please if you feel comfortable giving your reasoning for why you support this or don't that's fine stories to go forward and some of my reasons are as follows won't get into all of them but some of the major ones i'm concerned at once we allow them it will be difficult if not impossible to pull back later and prohibit them if we decide that this was not a good decision for me it's like letting the genie out of the bottle opening pandora's box whatever whatever you want analogy wan once you do it you can't go back it's going to be very difficult and i think part of the reason i say that is because we've got we've already got them operating in here in lakewood and it's going to be we understand that it's going to be somewhat difficult to now if we decide to go forward and not allow them to try to enforce a prohibition against those that are already in existence  stars go against the reason that we have zoning residential and commercial uses are very different and our zoning laws recognize that and we recognize that they do not mix well yet stars do that very thing they mix residential use with commercial use one of the points it came up was talking about aging in place and i have to tell you that if you if i had data that indicated you know  most of the stars that are operating are being done by elderly seniors that are trying to age in place and i would certainly have to take a different look at this but i don't believe that tell you why i don't believe it because i've known people that have operated these short term rentals and this is not just a simple matter it's a lot of work it takes a lot of work you have to first of all you have to be competitive you have to offer a competitive product that means that it has to have amenities and it has to be clean it has to be everything working properly it's a lot of work you have to market your product you have  that's eighty years old i don't i just don't believe is going to have the wherewithal or the desire to to engage in that kind of energy another reason i think stars currently operating illegally in lakewood is a case in point i'm opposed to having the neighbors be the enforcers has been mentioned by other councilors by having a complaint driven system which is by and large what we have in lakewood now another code such as system puts neighbors against neighbor and results in friction between neighbors it is up to the city to enforce its laws and codes not the neighbors unfortunately we do not i have a history of city enforcement and i think that it would be somewhat misleading t the community if we passed rules with the guess as was discussed we have approximately seventy thousand dwelling units in would some of which are not operating or not suitable for an sdr we don't know how many of those are not suitable but that still leaves a very large number of dwellings who choose not to offer espers i think this is an indication that we would be passing such legislation for the benefit of only a tiny percent it was also the issue of affordability of housing allowing these stars reduces housing inventory for residents it increases rents it increases prices housing is one of our public comments noted single family home ownership is part of the american dream and demand for live in ownership is at an all time high in lakewood as well as throughout the country stars contrary to family  home ownership the fact that many other cities are allowing them is not a good reason for late to be able to follow in fact it's just the opposite if a person wants to operate a star there are ample opportunities to do so in other jurisdictions like denver we ridge arvada fort collins brackenridge or aspen lakewood is different than those cities and should stay different lakewood does not have to be like everyone else in our part of the a principle that some things are just not for sale not at any price i believe this that includes our neighborhoods our families and our way of life sdr put a price on our way of life i i think what you were asking for is a quick yes or no and mine would be yes because i think we still don't have all the answers to really be able to make a good decision so i would say ye thank you i have a couple of points for the process they may even be points  our community members should be able to speak as to whether they want these are not not hear us reach a consensus now those pro or anti one side or the other uses on the other hand what you're doing there by asking us to say yay or nay tonight you're asking us to vote up or down on whether we're going to have s t are hers in the city we can only do that at a public hearing so i would suggest  any consensus we reached tonight has to do with the process and not the specifics the next week we are two weeks hence when we get this back with all the bla filled in we're not already in the position of saying oh yeah we voted for this and study session we have a majority we i think we need to stay away from the appearance of approving something outside public he all right so just to clarify council we don't take votes study sessions to give staff direction which we always do at study sessions and certainly everybody will have their opportunity to vote yes or no depending on how we move forward so the process is what we've done in my fourteen years on this council and that's what i'm trying to to get us through we've had this issue before us for two years and so you know i think there's definitely people who are going to agree and disagree and that's fine but i want to keep moving along and give staff some sort of idea of what to do we give them the idea that they go out and compile the wrong yeah i don't know where we're at now i was just going to say that i'd like to move forward with getting an ordinance and then i realized that later we can do up or down and we'll have more public i'm sure i'm sure  necessary i guess what i would say is i don't feel comfortable voting about whether these should be allowed or not i think that should be up to the voters and and the people of the city of lakewood just  either way we need rules because right now we don't have basically we don't have rules right now case in point is the fact that we do have these operating we don't really know we have a bed a bed and breakfast ordinance which is kind of tired so it's allowing them or to have no ordinance is what we're voting the direction would be given to go either way to either not we'd still need an ordinance either way an ordinance to not allow them or an ordinance to allow them and then further if you wanted to take something to the voters you'd have to figure out what ordinance you want to take to the voters so we're voting whether to allow them or not allow them we would have to go through a first reading in a second reading to do yeah but the one ordinance would allow the one wouldn't so yes this we're giving just like we have done on everything ordinance that's come through a study session we're giving that direction and council ma decide i want to hear more from the community i want to see rules put forth what do those rules look like and then on second reading they may vote those down i think that one thank you and so you know i do think this is certainly a complex issue and we've been working on it for a long time i just have a couple of thoughts that i want to share and then some feedback for our consensus moving forward i think that as i'm looking at this i certainly think we need to consider the neighbor the neighborhood impact which is something we've been talking about a lot and some councilor recently became a single mother and she opened a short term rental and this is how she got this is how she got through this year and so i just feel like this is something that  honestly is important income for people it's not for everyone we only have the three hundred as has been mentioned or you know that's the kind of approximate number and so i think it's certainly worth continuing this conversation a little bit so i would like to see that move forward some additional concerns or  input i guess is i think a lot of the recommendations from the committee i really agree with for example requiring it to be owner occupied or how sharing rather than an investment property noise and sound and stuff like that i think is really the quiet hours i think is really important and then one concern i have though is about the distance between them and it just doesn't feel like the most fair way we could regulate that i certainly appreciate the concern about we don't want to see an entire neighborhood becoming a hotel i think is kind of what the concern is but it it doesn't feel necessarily fair if one person has one on the street and then the neighbor down the block wants to do it at a totally different we're limiting the number days doing a lot to regulate this it just feels like maybe we could look at a different way another option that i saw is they did max for the city and so  maybe an option is that we could look at a maximum number for the city and then evaluate from there i think that is where i will stop for now knowing how to vote is complicated too because i would like to see us either have an ordinance that says we will not allow them in the city or else put it to a vote of the people basically ha referendum and i'm not sure how that fits in the way that you're trying to do this but here's just a few things i'd like to a although the number three hundred has been thrown out there personally i think there's probably a whole lot more of and all these years even at the top of this document  very first thing that it says is that they are not permitted in the city of lakewood we have not enforced the first time its city council got an update on this i believe was in two thousand and fifteen we've known for years these are out there and weve kind of turned our turned our face and just kind of let them be the people for the most part most of them that are running them know that they're illegal they have their own organization which is interesting and they are profit in my opinion at the expense of the neighbors there's an interesting sidebar on this a year ago when we were hearing our budget talks there were different items so that's been out there for a year we can all go back and look at those documents one thing i have learned in public policy is that once you go forward with something and if there's issues with  it takes years to turn it around into make the needed changes and to tighten up something that we didn't have the foresight to begin to understand and to see once you make this legal it's hard to turn that back you took our rewrite of our zoning ordinance was in twenty twelve and it took several years of people bringing up issues with that and for us to make needed changes to that in the same during that time the neighborhoods actually are suffering there was an interesting article in the denver  them you know i think there's also something to be said for creating unfair competition with our short term quality suites and our  usually tension when you get these in place between the owner of the house and the neighbors and gd knows we've got enough tension in our neighborhoods the way it is without legitimate housing again you know something that mike mentioned when you buy a home in a residential area we all expect to have the sanctity i don't think any of us have difficulty with an elderly person in their home renting out their basement in order to have a caregiver to supplement their income but what's going on from the people that we  met this is more than that and we are we are joking if we think that by not having an owner stay in the home the entire time that it's being rented out that that that's ok none of us are going to leave our underwear and our in our bedrooms to have somebody else come in and stay for for for thirty days or longer you know you really need to think of what what we're doing here is short term rentals they need to have regular site inspections for public health and safety issues i'm very very strong that if this kind of thing does go forward i will not be supporting that that owner needs to be there twenty four seven it needs to be time and all of the parking these needs to be on site that gets gained to these residential neighborhoods of course there's noise issues and once again we don't a way to measure that with decibels we are also because we are we have recreational pot we're we're not being honest with ourselves if we're not going to realize there's  again i just we're putting our neighbors in the positions of baby sitting houses or somebody else to keep them in compliant i'm not sure what what we're supposed to vote on here a yes to go forward with having an ordinance that says that they are not going to be allowed voting to have a ordinance that would basically become a referendum and go to the street to the people you know framework i do think we should move forward with the regulatory framework being designed and then for us to vote for having short term rentals so i'd be happy to support m i do think a couple of things i think would be great if we could figure out a way to kalvin some element of multifamily in this town homes or condos or something to that effect obviously i can do what they want and happen on conversation at their level but i think we shouldn't exclude them i think typically higher density multifamily housing is closer to larger infrastructure that could actually support  increased traffic i don't i actually doubt there would be a lot of increased traffic i mean if the homeowner is not there sometimes renting out the house it's probably just swapping one car for another and a lot of cases but we could have all those conversations later but i think we should try to kalvin some of multifamily housing i think lyttleton does it i think a lot of other cities have that as well so maybe we just cap x number units or something like that i think that would be the way to take a look  and on the same and on the same token nobody's going to regulate better than these apps and these companies you get to review the person who stayed at your house and their ability to even rent these type of propert is predicated on you being a good or good renter so if you're not doing a good job of being a renter you get a low rating and you get kicked off the app and it works the other way too if you're a bad property owner and not taking care of things and things are dirty and gross and not safe the person renting the property can write you poorly and then you don't have the ability to rent others so a lot of these i think are pretty pretty self contained self regulated i think a lot of the concerns that we've all brought really come down to enforcement code enforcement from the city side but as you mentioned if we think that the city is not doing as good of a job each other of these apps so i think they're actually probably better regulated with the neighbor next door we talk about things like marijuana stuff like that my neighbor can smoke right now and then there's not a whole lot i can do other than calling the police mcpaul try to keep it brief certainly at this point obviously we have had major discussions i think we started this conversation back in twenty nineteen i am probably the primary reason why it got delayed and sent over to the housing policy commission because i felt it was a topic that was complex enough that it needed that that level of engagement certainly put in a ton of time on this and i know others did as well  the same points isn't at this point helpful i think that that's i just want to kind of share with people we've heard you on the housing policy commission we went through these things line by line people have very strong opinions about this our job is to represent our  constituents i do want to say that the information that i sent back i we had a company who actually used their software tool to let us know how many roughly were operating in lakewood at the time it was it was a lot larger than than the three hundred that was sent to all the housing policy commission folks i know that maybe it was a lot of information we also used a lot of our time to learn from our neighbors obviously other communities have been working concentrated units in certain areas and then that in itself creates a problem so no matter what direction we go there's going to be it's not going to be perfect is what i'm trying to get to and i am in support of moving the discussion forward but i do want my community to know that i was one of the councilors who certainly we all said no to the commercial but on the short term our rentals for homeowner and home sharing i was the one who was undecided because ultimately it is the strength of those regulations and how the program fits together it is going to be necessary for me to decide whether i can ultimately support it or not i do believe in maintaining our neighborhood character i also believe in property rights we allow other types of businesses so i'll be looking at this very holistically saying what do i see as the potential impacts but mayor to answer your question i'm in support of moving forward ordinance crafting a very narrow for the home owner home sharing one but for me it's going to come all the way down to what are the guardrails and what do i assess is the impact to my community which would then control my final vote thanks i would just echo that in my opinion as well certainly support moving it forward important to find a balance with our neighbors in the neighborhoods and being on the housing policy committee i think that's something we really strived to do i think there's you know a lot of things that can happen and will happen and if we get to a point i think where it's too onerous and it doesn't make sense and certainly i don't know if it's worth my support if and when it comes to a second reading but i think we need to go through and continue to have these these different conversations and again you know for for folks you know sometimes no is just ok no  there's yes and that's ok that's what we're here to do we're also here to move policy along and in one of the things that i have is you know we are elected by our constituencies to you know make these challenging decisions and you know our community has trust in each and every one of us we're going to represent them in the ways that they elected us to do there's no shame in that and sometimes something's going to pass and sometimes something's not and we've all been on each side of th from what i can gather there is a consensus to to have some which move forward in the affirmative of allowing and there's still some more questions to ask we still do have another agenda item which i will do a ceck in but i do need to no we're not going to allow it and this is how we're going to enforce it so they only i just want to be cautious move it forward and let's put the ordinance together but let's also include we're already voting to say yes we're going to do this we need to back will now go to the public input portion this is your opportunity to weigh in and ask any questions this is different than the public hearing general public certainly just related to this conversation tonight it's your opportunity to ask questions about what we're doing and give that kind of input i will have the third give the last four digits of the phone number and you to give your name and or ward  your name and address i'll start your thirty seconds i'll let you know when start your three minutes i'll let you know in thirty seconds is up i ask you to politely wrap up this is not general public comment that airbnb and i've operated for two and a half years no complaints from any of my neighbors they have my phone number if there is an issue they call the other part for a while we were being taxed by platform as if we were in denver and denver would have gotten eighteen thousand dollars from last year's tax or lodging i'm all for lakewood taxing is even higher than what you're you're asking for because we don't pay that our guests pay that that's what we want from the city surrounding businesses i think this is good for our city and with over three hundred some say well over three hundred airbnb already we only get sixteen to seventeen complaints a year we get more than that just from long term in the neighborhood so i think i'd really like to see this go on and what you're doing by not allowing multiple families you're putting these into residential neighborhoods we're in a multi family neighborhood where everyone is a tenant and that's less impact on the homeowners so i think we should consider that thank you for  yes we have taylor very good points brought up on all sides and i've been heavily involved in the regulatory process here in denver and we've hosted good neighbor summits on teaching host how to be  responsible neighbors and making sure that you're leading a positive impact on the neighborhood so i appreciate your guys efforts and in keeping that in mind moving forward but i just state in kind of reiterate what jacob stated which is this is something that's happening already it is not technically illegal but it's still already happening  so i think the city is moving in a good direction of regulating it and profiting from it and if you look at denver's revenue that's been generated over the past few years they've made millions and millions and millions of dollars from it though i think that there i a way to legalize it make it a taxable event and have it pay for itself i also think that there's some common sense practices that could be put in place one being making sure that individual if they're going to be operating short term rental secondly one of the things that we've always pushed from day one is noise monitoring devices in each unit that don't monitor conversation but they do in fact monitor sound that's on the side of their house and freaking out a guest that is potentially in the property that thinks there's criminal activity going on i just would just like to offer any of my opinions or services not advertising our services but happy to weigh in on any conversations in the future regarding smart regulation i think denver handled it pretty well but at the same time there was a lot of lessons to be learned  issues as time goes on and apply more regulations needed but just going in and putting thirty different regulations on the industry right out the gate when this is something new for the community is not the right approach anyway sticks for sure you know to actually spend money in your community brilliant i definitely think it's a good idea six seven eight good evening nine six seven eight give us your name and address and we'll get you  hi good evening james speaking from award for this evening i trust you guys can hear me ok i want to thank everyone again for their work as a ember of the lakewood short term rental alliance we took a lot of time and effort to try to consolidate our eighty member strong audience to get comments to you a lot of those were sent via email i hope we made some salient points that could be considered there were a few things from this evening's conversation that struck me in the first is to just take issue miss johnson when you speak of this not being a destination city i think it's some of these archaic attitudes that are holding us back my experience has been the opposite that people do want to come to experience maybe a show at red rocks some fine dining at  belmar and certainly the myriad open space that our city has to offer for hiking and trails and i think it's a lot of these attitudes that are holding us back are very contentious issue i can see both sides of it but i can't quite see how the city of lakewood would outright ban short term rentals hopefully again our comments from our member strong alliance have been circulated and considered i haven't heard them reflected tonight although i felt like i heard a couple of things perhaps in some of the council members discussions that maybe they did get a read of our proposals and the statements that we wrote from families and individuals that have had short term rentals please understand we are all in favor of the same things that you fear stated differently we want to have safe places we want to have places that aren't noisy we want to have places that are free of trash we want to have people that are blowing pot smoke out the windows we want happy neighbors we have had those things for years i encourage you to think about the economic benefit this will not be a boon for the city but you can offset the costs of enforcing and regulating a legitimized program the other point to consider as i understand it as of march  was submitting a sales tax to the city of lakewood so it kind of puts us in a tough spot to know that money is being sent to the department of revenue jefferson county potentially now the city of lakewood where we're still feeling criminals for doing something that we should be entitled to as homeowners to pay our taxes on time every year and improve our properties perhaps as a result of some extra income for hosting an empty room and meeting someone from a different part of the world or helping them with better affordable housing for a shorter term  lastly i would just say please stop trying to reinvent this process ask the folks at arvada how has it going what has worked what hasn't it's a similar city denver's a little different breckenridge is wildly different you can see across the state the cities that have adopted this they have reasonable tax rates they are all in favor of strong safeguards as is likely short alliance and we're available any time you guys would like to reach back to perhaps something off our community thank you for your civic work and the time th tonight i know that a lot of those folks came out to speak on what they believe i think there's a lot of folks that feel the way i do that art however so i wanted to make sure that i did i'm even in the industry and i but this is a big deal for me is i live here too and this just doesn't belong in lakewood i used to view lakewood as a destination city i've lived for forty years but anymore it just doesn't feel that way and it it's it's it's just constant continuing in my opinion and one of the issues for me that is a huge concern is you know  i think miss johnson said it pretty well we buy and invest a lot of money not as tenants but homeowners in specific communities that are appealing to us and we grow and raise our kids there and we get used to a quality of that's what lake always been to me your last caller just talked about open space that's another one and i've had a couple of short term rentals very very close and proximity to me where i could actually hear the noise with closed windows and closed doors in the wintertime it's it's horrific and it finally went away they got enough complaints street parking is out of control in this city i don't know if people are using their garages for strage but the cars on the streets are more than i've ever seen even my own neighborhood and the streets just weren't built built why enough to support two parked cars and and two passing it's pretty tight parking noise or obvious issues but to learn tonight that there's actually companies that want to share in have no business belonging to a a short term rental property owner and finally the biggest issue bar none is enforcement it's been my experience for quite some time now that the a lot of the is look good on paper but they're just not being enforced and this is an absolute enforcement nightmare and you know i think i've got some flexibility  somebody elderly who wants a a an in person occupied by other than that these should be disallowed and that's what should make lakewood stand out as a place you can go for some peace or quiet and not have to deal with this speak eight eight four five ward one and i've spoken to you on this issue before a couple of years there was a short term rental next door to my mother my elderly mother and and there were issues and i listened to some of the comments that were some of the concerns that were just kind of broached by by you this evening and i could verify that those really exist now if you can imagine that the house next because our lake would erode enforcement and our police actually took care of the issue because this is a residential neighborhood and we have ordinances that govern the noise level and the cars parked all over so the situation did resolve itself i want to caution you that as you move forward with this you really need you need to contact t jefferson county code enforcement because we have another short term rental here in our neighborhood that everything that you guys have brought up tonight  a person who chose to live there well she moved away but left her son that didn't really help the aroma the the cars all over the the parties everything that you've mentioned has happened and yes it has headed the whole block against this one neighbor and it's really a bad situation in jefferson county this is a you may or may not know my neighborhood is part in and part in the county and the county has been trying to deal with this code enforcement only has so much so many chiefs to deal with this and what they have found that there's no there's no process for access they're actually in litigation we all remember the people we don't want another incident like that you don't want to deal with it and we close public input and certainly want to thank everybody and i would like to emphasize one thing we've received comments on all sides of this so certainly community is engaged on all different sides so we've heard a lot and seen a not so with with some more direction and again time check it's nine thirty and we have a whole another another section to go through tonight and if council chooses to postpone that they can do also i think in development dialog some of the thngs that have worked well is kind of that menu approach so when you look at you know preparing an ordinance do you want an owner occupied or not so we have that ready to go with kind of both those do you want a one hundred foot radius or five hundred foot right rather than trying to get eleven people to tune in on that tonight that might be better suited for four second reading where those things can come into play but i'm just throwing that out there because we need to continue to to tune in and robert if you want to maybe possible to throw back on those four things that you're looking for maybe we can go out for th to get in so are there other people on the line perhaps that would like to speak nine may i assume you want to bring up the things that we are looking for direction on is that a part of the memo that you wanted to bring up suggestions or that sort of thing but essentially when we bring the ordinance forward it can also be modified if that's not quite the right numbers that are in those blanks there and then are there amendments or things that we did not cover in the there anything within the realm that you would like to see i mean i certainly am ok with with staff taking a crack at this with based upon the feedback they've heard as well as the conversations from the housing folks or the housing commission and coming back with us so i have to har a bunch of hands up so encourage everyone to look at what is in the package and then come with prepared amendments just to facilitate the evening i think at this point mayor paul kind of said if there's going to be difference of opinion on both sides i don't think we need to rehash  overall topics if you want to prepare some amendments to help strengthen or to to to guide it in a certain way do that and then obviously at the end of that we'll have an up or down vote on whatever you however it's revised i think that'll be the most  and certainly gives the community an organized way sort of to progress through the evening with us so that's all i've got thank you mr gilling your hand went up  than some of our second readings so i don't see it is that challenging i think what we've heard is for sure no investors we've heard i think more support than less for some kind of a home sharing i think we should start with home sharing that you've got to have the owner there if you want to run out your other room short term to other people that's where i kind of heard consensus whether you call an elderly person run run outs marines or whatever you want to call it and then if there is amendment th people want to expand that then it's easier to expand but i think if we're going to move it forward and again people can vote no on the whole thing and just prohibit it but if we're going to have a discussion i think we start with i've heard a consensus for homeshare owners there all the time and if folks want to add amendments to that to expand that out then we can have that discussion but for staff sake i think we should add that and then my rhetorical question from earlier i think we can fill in the occupancy blank if that's still blank and i think for the distancing if somebody wants to make an amendment and provide some distance if that's the way they want to go i think we can do that as well so i think that covers a lot from the professionals who know more about that there's a way to take a look at adding something like that or have an amendment or something like that i personally would be supportive of that somebody would support me on that and again i think something like that would come at the second reading with with an amendment once we get a final copy and then you can try to work on that word i saw that after we told her to whoever i'm sorry to say her the person the crestar nine but public input's closed on this one so thank well i think you should allow this person in she's been trying to get in and was having trouble i i would like to see an amendment for duplexes as well however that process any other direction are there any questions i think we have pretty good direction robert i'm looking at you to see if you feel like is there clarified i think the best way to go forward is to have  at your word means as you interact with your constituents to make sure that you just are as informed us as you possibly can be with what your constituents are and are interested in doing as relates to short term yeah ok and i would just also say because i think folks are going to have some amendments if there's a way that council can work with staff on on some wording and things like that so that we're ready to roll that evening with different amendments and  we know what they're going to look like i think we've all learned from other complicated issues that doing these things on the fly not be the best way and always comes down to a couple of our word smithing experts who we rely on so and it takes a lot it takes a lot of extra time to do that on the fly so if people can give that some thought feel free to reach out to the legal staff or to me and i can direct or to robert w all more than willing to help so that you feel really prepared when we have our level of urgency but we also don't want as many of you have said we don't want to rush this so the decisions aren't vry well thought out and you have to you know and we just don't feel like they've had enough time to think about it relief in june in july and into the summer well i would just say and correct me if i'm wrong anyone i mean there is so much interest i think you know to be able to give some good time to have all the interested parties look at what is going to question for  up thank you i was just going to suggest if we could because summers are so hard if we could maybe look at putting this on the calendar sometime at least after july either july or later because we've already had our  april meeting may would be cming up in june so that would give us potentially two meetings to discuss and get input so if we could i'm just thinking time wise if we could look at at the earliest july for our next discussion that would give us time to be able to get with our constituent sure i think it might also depend on this next conversation that we're going to have either tonight or maybe postpone depending you know if we're going to put things on the ballot that's starting to get right into the time and we'd have to start having conversations about things that would go on the ballot as well to be ready to go so i think if july would be great i think maybe if this next conversation that takes  place starts to load up and we go back from the days say we are going to put things on the ballot and we have to use that july twenty six that's going to be probably a pretty big type of an evening so yeah that may not g do does council want to dig into this and the reason why i'm asking is even through the budget audit committee there's there's a lot here for those who have attended so do you want to plow forward with this conversation  if not what would be a date to that we could carry this conversation forward if the council were to say we're even if we started it and didn't finish or we said we're going to wait what would that look like our next one would we reschedule this for is that what you're asking we'll have to do a little hors trading with mr smith but i think we could do may  unless there's some other reason that it has to be done to my so no no voting just consensus and mr chair metaphorical vote yes mr chair of the budget audit i'm not aware of any compelling reason why this couldn't be s evening so far i would say may be fine doesn't look like there's any objections to that ok thank you mayor i'll try like i said we'll do a little bit of rescheduling here and we'll try to keep the may rd study session open for so to allow for time to have a pretty thorough conversation this is another one that will probably be of high interest to our citizens and forgive me just as preparation is the budget audit meeting is that video poste the folks who weren't able to attend we can all be caught that's a really good idea yeah because there was a lot there there was a lot of input from our resident board members that i think would be helpful for the the body  the whole to understand in that way the chair doesn't have to try to remember all of those recommendations that were put forth or as far what the committee thought so well i know that you have your whole finance team th are there any council committee reports that anybody has for city council committees mr suggestions that we've approved by consensus in committee we'll be reviewing those to make sure we have them as as concisely as possible and send them along to  child care or dependent adult care that has to be secured in order for the candidate to go campaign there are children to be taken care of  and it's a campaign meeting that the candidate needs to attend then it is it very well could be a campaign of expense that's what we will be looking at it would be the same for mayor we will have our legislative committee meeting this wednesday  working on a position and i had started out with trying to work with them and see if we could get it amended and i imagine we'll probably go to an opposed position cml is also in an opposed position which they were previously opposed and they've moved around a little bit but i think concerns are continuing to grow and i think that for me personally i think it'd be best if maybe we could just sit down with everyone and work some stuff out also of note is the school resource officer bill if you've heard of that and kind of what i would do with our school resource officers and certainly a lot of concern in the community with those two bills and then the last one is the one that i always talk about and that's transportation and  trying to find some more dollars to spread out will be interesting to see though with potential relief package as well if there is truly an infrastructure package that will come through we could get some serious regarding restricting the use of ketamine and chemical restraints it was just a submitted to the general assembly lat week thank you and just to clarify that yes thank you i just want to remind everyone that the colorado food bank for the rockies will have to drive up distribution tomorrow at philipso united methodist church in ward three pss the word that tyy can drive up inndnd they will be very well rewarded also if there's anybody that would be willing to helouout they always need hands to help