money moves the world and banking moves money welcome to the public bank solution conversations about an emerging new american institution a publicly owned partnership banks able to rebalance the scales of monetary control in service of the public interest and our common wealth brought to you by the public banking institute and its national association of partners and organizations i'm delighted today to have two really wonderful guests who are going to speak to how this bank will serve the work that they're doing as frontline leaders of the stakeholder interests of the people our guest today are d he who is the executive director of new jersey working families these people focus i mean all of them tell you what they do about their organizations do but they're animated they're connected very influential and i think that their me their words matter a great deal in terms of how the public gets to learn about public banking as evidenced by a recently published op ed in the new star ledger and elsewhere called time for the state for a public bank in new state bank of new jersey effort organized with other stakeholder interest like and a libya and and many others what is it first of all tell us a little bit about the work environment council and how this fits in so the we go by is a coalition of seventy organise asians labor unions environmental organizations and community groups focus on safe secure jobs and a healthy sustainable environment we run training programs and one of our training programs really focuses on the outside influence of wall street and how they've been financially strip mining our economy funneling money up into the elites into the wealthy hands at the expense of working families and so throughout that training program we dispel some myths some myths around racial  thoughts mr on immigration and the environment and focus on how really what the problem with our economy and the reason why we have such a vast inequality problem is that wall street has been gaming the system and basically driving  money into the hands of shareholders through stockholder buybacks all based on a book by leslie a pulled from the labor institute called runaway to quality and one of the solutions to this one of the ways that we've identified that we can take on wall street is through a public bank so you know we get people riled up in a train we explain why you know the thought of immigrants coming to take your jobs is not actually the problem it's that wall street has been stealing our money and then they say well what can we do and we say the public bank is a really good solution for us because if we want to take on wall street it means we should naturally be putting our money into those same banks and we've rallied around the public bank as a solution for new jersey because we think there are some structural problems with our finances in the state and we need more money to do all the things that we care about  from addressing our environmental concerns to supporting families who need support to making sure that workers get a fair shake we think that there are lots of issues that need funding and that the working families alliance and others are constantly fighting for resources to support in the public bank is one solution for that so we have a petition on our website in support of it and i was really happy to cosign the op ed with an aliyah because i think we agree that the public bank is a good solution for our state nice segue to organization we exist in multiple states and some states as an actual political party in new jersey where more of a political policy activism voter education organization our main objective is to help voters vote their values we work very hard to hold elected officials accountable to what they promise during elections or during electioneering and we work really hard to come up with smart policies that help working families and imus's are really just workers but the idea of the working class the working poor the middle class socially that ninety nine percent of new jersey  ensuring that we have the resources and the support to actually raise healthy families and strong families in our state and you know the our connection to the idea of a public bank is you know new jersey operates under this huge structural deficit we unfortunately do not have enough money to meet the obligations that the state has put before itself whether it's to its own workers with this pension crisis whether it's to its own communities cutting back on support for municipalities or whether it's just ensuring the quality of life that we all expect in the garden state and this idea of you know new jersey has millions and millions of dollars that they're putting into wall street that they're putting into other banks i mean everything from the money that that has to be held for them to pay their employees or bills or the money that is required to to invest in infrastructure or develop and projects in all of that would be cheaper more accessible and in fact we would probably have more creative ways to use it and make more excessi too too are the states and its residents if we actually just control the entity or the structure in which this money is how old and which these bonds are made in which you know the pension is managed so a lot of the things that regular people hear about that are and they're concerned about what's going on in the state and how it manages its money could be resolved by this idea you know your op ed you talked about the that the state pays more than a billion dollars in fees we're having wall street banks manage our money and then we also pay on top of that three billion dollars in interest with some of the categories of deed and i'd like to hear what what you think some of the primary categories  alluded to some but in terms of working families for example what would be one of the areas of investment that you think this bank might be best suited or more most effective or most helpful when it happens so consider that we underfund our schools billions of dollars in state or the fact that we don't have the millions of dollars required to remediate lead in schools or in people's homes consider the fact that we don't have the millions of dollars or or the necessary funds to ensure that people's commutes are would have been made easier by the arc tunnel i mean all of these things every aspect of your daily life can be impacted by this whether or not it takes you over an hour to commute back and forth from work whether or not your children are have a safe school to learn and whether or not your community has the green space or the resources to ways i mean i think this would be one of many components but the reality is that you know the status quo is insufficient we need to make a change and maybe we should be thinking outside the box with this creative type of idea and that is old actually it's a great new idea yet under the old idea on also governor murphy campaigned on this idea right and so he's talked about three primary ways that the bank could be the mission could be applied and one is we have a  student you know we have a college debt college loan issue where college affordability is is really not affordable anymore so the lending rates on student when on student loans are just way too high and the state could do that lending at a much still provide an avenue for people to go to college and still make money on the loans at a much cheaper interest rate than they're currently getting through the federal programs number two small business lending so we know that there are paired parts of the state that  bankers traditional bankers are just not lending money and those are under resourced communities who need the support of a public bank and could drive dollars into the hands of small businesses to support low income families starting their own business starting their own restaurant and the third piece that the governor talked about is small scale infrastructure and so you know both of our organizations are members of jersey renews which is a coalition focused on climate change and coming up was the beast policies for climate addressing climate  state bank we think is one solution here we need to make our buildings more energy efficient our schools our hospitals our municipal buildings we're all paying for heating and cooling those buildings with the public bank we could put dollars into energy efficiency programs make them more efficient which reduces greenhouse gases reduces the amount we're spending on our energy bill and frankly puts people to work you know doing the upgrades so those three solutions i think are really good places to start for a public bank and that's what the governor campaigned on so it's a logical place to start you know the the environment you mentioned the new jersey renew jersey really you're founder of that organization focusing like can we do that now well we need the bank first live and i think this comes back to what emily and i have been alluding to which is there's there's there's a great need but a shortage of resources that you know the governor has put forward a pretty progressive budget is it proposes an increase in the millionaire's tax which we know we need but it also it doesn't totally fit new jersey and that we need more resources to do everything what that we want done we want to maintain quality of life and improve our schools improve  our improve the housing situation in the state so we know that we're going to need more dollars in order to do that and the public bank could potentially free up the money if you look at the state budget the amount of money that's going into interest payments is is astronomical and we talk about that in the op because we're funneling that those dollars right into the pocket of wall street bankers and that's not a good use of our money so yes we should think about using the public bank to support renewables and environmental justice communities in low income communities in state it's often more expensive to put solar onto a house onto a roof because you need to do other upgrades first so could the public bank focus its efforts on renewable energy development in environmental justice communities that seems like it would be a really good use of money that's in line with the priorities of the murphy administration so i think there's a lot of opportunity but first thing we need to do is actually get the mike stablish i just want to add that i mean the the i may see big and the idea of transferring all of these millions or billions of dollars when they seem very large to start but the state could actually begin this in an incremental way i mean even if it just started with this idea of the funds the resources that the state currently has in order to pay its bills or pay its employees and instead of putting it into some third to whatever interests retaining those earnings and then reinvesting in the priorities of the state has set before it self that would be huge the idea of saving itself  the billions in interest and costs and fees i mean ultimately this is all monies that can be reinvested in ensuring that new jersey's a kind of b continues to grow i mean the reality  when you talk about you know essentially like greening our our buildings or in their energy efficiencies and developing jobs there or you know windmills or or electric vehicles or or whatnot i mean this is this is where we need to head in order to ensure that our state retains its its competitive status that our residents are actually getting the jobs that they need in order to flourish right so this is just it's a win win on multiple levels i think the biggest obstacle which i'm assuming you're going to maybe start talking about i'll just jump into it is that we're talking about a lot of money and so their corporate interests who are firmly against it because guess what they want to keep their money or they want to keep the people's money and so i think that's the biggest obstacle of us as advocates we i mean we have to overcome is educating people as to the idea that it's not this massive thing that it's too big to try but also you know that we have very strong well heeled interests that are going to fight tooth and nail to retain those billions that they're able to strip of new jersey's economy yeah and you suggested there is a lack of understanding that education is still very new around the subject so we've even so we have some pushback from community bankers for example initially and i cloak it that way because i think in part because they don't also understand how the public bank would partner with them share the risk with that with some of the projects that you're talking about that are varied what would otherwise might be in a category of high risk affordable housing or you know housing for low income people those are risky areas but doesn't and wouldn't they require the kind of creative entrepreneurial design in management that the government is not usually given to be able to create i mean housing authorities and and development come stories are often restricted by what bureaucracy will allow them to do a lot of the stuff that i think you're talking about might suggest that we could have a new approach to this now do you that are there civic organizations like yours for example of that have the wherewithal and the experience to be able to drive some of these ideas should be looked to the sectors for creative solutions well i want to just back up and point out that we elected a former executive of them to insure investment bank to leave the state and he likes the idea as so you know i would venture to say that phil murphy knows more about banking than i do we do and he recognizes he has recognized that that this is something that would help the state be able to invest in a new dynamic creative way i will say that you know i think it would require shifting interests into the sphere it would require stakeholders to have a seat at the table so that they could help develop what is the ultimate end product what the bank looks like what why its initial phase what what areas  cover how does it partner with community a community banks and community lenders but you know i think ultimately with people who are experienced in the area and having key stakeholders to have a seat at the table i think there's no reason why our state government couldn't actually create something that works for the people we've done it in the past and i don't mean just like in the public bank but just you know initiatives that have been created through government to you know help people and develop their families we've done it before why couldn't we do it again and to the point about the pub community bankers actually in my are saying of a public bank is that the community banks can often be the face for the student lending for example so if the if the public banks mission is to support student loans and to get more kids to be able to access college then the the community banks can serve as the retail face and allow the students to go in and apply and vet the loans through your existing community banks and credit you know see if the eyes etc so i think actually think that there's no reason for them to be scared of this i actually think it augments and and potentially adds onto the value that they bring to the new jersey economy really what we're trying to do is to take on the big wall street banks like wells fargo bank of america who have not necessarily acted in our best interest and as we know from here you know there for you know fraudulent practices we want to have a system that works for the people and so bank of new jersey could be putting forward a mission that helps the city creates a new revenue stream and and really partners with the community bankers and i think we would all agree that the community bankers are on the front lines of lending it to into communities they know the people and the need is for small businesses it's really it's mostly served there so our a expectation would be that the bank as you say will really be enforced their role as an institutional component of local economies which is where the bank really is focused on how do we reinforce and build the sinews of local new jersey towns and cities but it's management and governance are the key issues and so and you mentioned the point of of having stakeholders at the table this is know the process we're in  we have a senate bill so we have a high very high level of course and the governor himself pulling this idea forward but where do the people get to fit into this course we're in some of the conversation ourselves but let's let's take a look at who should be in there in and what right do we have or what role and what role do you think we can play in affecting that so personally i think that it has the the seats at the table there have to be reservations for stakeholder groups of people who represent real people in a state it cannot just be political appointees and cannot just be bankers who get a point to that board you need a mix and so there should be a seat at the table for groups like the working families alliance or citizen action or labor leaders someone needs to be there to provide oversight and to ensure that the bank is practicing in line with the mission get that get set out in hopefully in statute and we talk a little bit about in the in the op ed about wanting transparency and accountability and i think having those folks at the table on the leadership on the advisory board is really important and then there also needs to be an outside game with groups like ours watchdog are making sure that that it does practice what approaches them so i think it's both so on your question as to what's the role of regular people and in this idea are pushing this forward it's what we do is building campaigns that engage regular new jerseyans informing them of a key question and then giving them the tools to lobby or to interact with essentially their legislators or decision makers i think it's very critical that in this formative stage even at every step of the legislative process that there is intensive education and outreach being done to regular new jerseyans clearly through shows like this through through social media and then real efforts to get these people in front of of legislators sometimes it's not directly i think a great opportunity here that we've discussed  engaging with mayors engaging with the city council president to aging with you know individuals in my even school boards because this has an opportunity to help enrich and and support initiatives that are going to help newark or paterson or lizabeth or morristown or chatham like all of the different communities in new jersey to actually you know redevelop in its or reinvest in its communities and mayors in all of these towns have you know skin in the game as do you know our school boards because if we're talking about potentially creating a more accessible avenue for towards higher education what that's the purpose or big purpose of k through twelve education is to prepare students for higher education for those who choose it and making it more affordable  it's benefits so serious that they're trying to educate but also if you can afford your student loans you'll be able to once you graduate maybe come back into the community and buy a whole new yourself and become a property tax that you know pay property taxes down the road so it's idiotic and it's important that legislators understand that and i feel like advocates are the ones that remind them that yeah and it's simply succeeding to hear us talk about it because you're able to bring some specifics into not just a do it otherwise boring sort of a money discuss this is boring no no no no no but i mean that but the topic of money and banking is something that is an area that most citizens don't get too deeply involved with and so here  in a in a grassroots sort of an undertaking to take on the biggest powers in on the on the playing field between them what can in a century what they should be doing instead of what they are doing so what can people do know what's margy undertake action there's a petition section you can sign a petition in support of a public bank you can share that on social media and ask other people to sign we also run a training program where we teach people about the economy about the public bank is one piece of this we have one module on the public but people can come to the training and part of our idea here is to build yes we have an up opposition that is going to be well funded and yeah and he very vehemently opposed t idea we need a lot of people who are going to be behind the concept so come through the training program we can come out and talk to community groups or to your church your civic association whatever it is and give a little short apple a half hour to an hour to explain the concept and you can reach out to us bro castro is our campaign organizer at work and you know the other thing i think is to call your legislators and let them know that you actually support this concept there's going to be a debate and there is a senate bill that got dropped we know that there's go be a discussion at the state house and so letting your elected officials know that you support this idea of a public bank read up on it make sure they understand what you're actually talking about and then call you later and tell them that you support it are our organization does and many people actually i'm sure get a lot of these e mails in their inbox just explaining what's going on or giving them action alerts just urge people to actually pay attention i think there's a lot of information out there and sometimes it's like information overload but if you pursue different organizations go to their web site sign on get educated or if you have something and actually i learned in your inbox it says you know support the public bank open that even and just a couple clicks will get you will get you are an e mail and an e mail in front of your elected official letting them know that regular new jerseyans care about this that regular new jerseyans who are impacted  are going to take action i mean ultimately power is either organized people or organized money and so we're trying to organize people the irony here is that the powers that we're working against are using public crux of the moment that we live in where the power has been so much you served by the powers that be you know the by the big money powers public policy that reflects those interests as ours as you were saying so if the citizens are going to take a stand for economic justice and fairness and some fair shot at that at the plainfield they're going to have to stand for themselves or means everybody is watching a program here that has a job where if you're not only as a voter but as a citizen activist as a protagonist for fairness and for justice for a chance for us to turn new jersey into a much different place than we've we've been in we've been stuck in where as i say we're just about out of time for this segment but i really want to thank you very episode of this i think that there's there's plenty to talk about here and we look at creating a whole new financial engine for the state of new jersey to the tune of multiple billions of dollars a year that's what we're talking about folks we have a chance here this state around we're going to new administration it's committed to it now i think we should leave it alone should we should just kind of watch what's going on and we're partners and get on with it so stay tuned we'll be