meditation healing food living in balance healthy relationships and harnessing the true power of where you are powerful you are karen specializes in pain management stress reduction and even oncology so if you have any type of pain out there today you don't want to miss this episode welcome to the show karen thanks kate it's like to be here it's our pleasure so tell us more about what inspired you to join this line of work now so i was inspired to become an acupuncturist because of my own experience having acupuncture i had a really severe illness about twenty years ago and i had a lot of western medical intervention that really gave me a lot of side effects was a physical problem you had it was actually a physical problem and i tried lots of different things and decided that i really needed to pull myself up by my own bootstraps and try something natural amazing i had been interested in natural healing for a really long time and i just sort of defaulted into it but i'm so glad that i did because it really changed my life and now you feel a look amazing and you're running your own clinic seventeen years later and what's that been like yeah so i've i've loved doing what i do going back to school age thirty eight and then graduating with a masters degree and acupuncture was sort of a dream come true for me it allowed me to have my own business and do something that i love graduations good for you i'm hoping today that you can help some of the viewers overcome their pain so getting into that let's let's talk about how acupuncture can actually assist people in disease we know that the derivative of all disease is inflammation of some sort in the body whether it's back pain stomach pain you're basically dealing with an inflammatory response in the body right so when you first define inflammation we have an acute form and we have a systemic form so can you  that for the audience you know so inflammation at its basic form is actually not a bad thing inflammation helps the body to stimulate white blood cells to heal but that's acute inflammation right that's  acute inflammation and that's actually a necessary process for the body to yes maintain homeostasis so the problem with inflammation and we hear so much about inflammation now is when it becomes chronic right and when the cycle does not stop so inflammation creates a lot of chemical cascades of chemicals within the body that are actually not good so things like cortisol too much epinephrine in the system there's all kinds of pro inflammatory agents called cytokines also that are generated that if over time they stay within the body they create a lot more implementation and to see this now most people may have this they don't even realize this so in layman's terms who's actually suffering from mental nation could be the guy with back pain could be with someone who has migraine headaches or you know even types of cancer inflammation has been shown to be the root of many to seize pro whether it's paying or cancer it's the body's inability to shut down a negative feedback loop so that's also related to auto immune diseases i'm assuming absolutely autism and other things because it's like systemic so the body does not know how to turn off like you said and say ok i'll stop fighting now the problem is over but it keeps on the inflammatory response for years even decades exactly and then i understand there's western medicine there's pharmaceuticals too to address that problem and you know in a lot of people's cases it's not working or it's making the problem even worse right the other issue is stress really and sasser bates inflammation and in fact people believe that stress is sort of the root cause of inflammation ok and that's primarily due to the action of cortisol which gets stimulated in times of stress it's normal for us to have stress and it's normal for us to have inflammation but when there is a continuous stream of co in the system we go from having cortisol that's actually good because it provides healing to cortisol that actually has impacts on the immune system on the gastrointestinal system pretty much on every system in the body and again that's everybody out there who's watching everyone suffers from stress to some degree or the other and you know it's to the point where it becomes this once on a sustainable that's when becomes a problem ok so let's get into let's get into acupuncture a little bit here how can acupuncture address what you know to the main things you just said like the systemic inflammation and the cortisol which is just run rampant right so you know the body the autonomic nervous system which is our the system in our body that regulates everything that we do has paris again a sympathetic side to it so the parasympathetic nervous system actually is considered the system that's associated with resting and digesting ok ok and then the sympathetic nervous system is the fight or flight  so that's where the mental kind of response well it's the thing that actually pumps up your heart rate it increases glucose into the system and quarters ole gas and cortisol yeah so there's two things that happen when the sympathetic nervous system is activated  released and you get epinephrine released ok epinephrine has an effect on the heart increases heart rate increases blood pressure and cortisol increases blood sugar and the way that your body responds to it so basically it's getting you ready to flee yes to get out of the way and you can feel that response in your body when you feel like you know you might break down you feel so stressed out or you know trembling almost in some people's cases maybe with diabetes right right so what acupuncture actually does is it taps into the parasympathetic nervous system it actually activates it and activates all the neurochemicals that can help your body to actually come back to a state of relaxation and rest now with these opioids and self release endorphins  the undercurrent system by allowing natural chemicals that are in the hormonal system to regulate so we have it all within us it sounds like we have a whole own healing self mechanism and you know when you think about the opioid crisis out there scuse me it sounds like chronic pain a lot of times what happens is our natural chemicals sort of forget how to do that so kind of boosting and reminding that bring you back into balance exactly so allowing the body to achieve a sense of peace and relaxation more allowing all of our natural biochemicals and neurotransmitters to actually start working again in the presence of stress and excess cortisol all our body wants to do is flee so it means  there's not energy going for digestion there's not energy going for relaxation you can have sympathetic and parasympathetic so how does acupuncture address that by bringing more nourishment so acupuncture addresses it by actually tapping into neuro chemical smell and your body basically gets cascaded it gets flooded with all of these really good feel good chemicals so it's communicate directly with your brain when you're saying or transmitter so it's scientifically works i it absolutely does and they found that there are absolutely direct to links between acupuncture points and brain function and what hormones are neurotransmitters are actually dumped back out into your system so you're telling me that it's not just the mental aspect of pain it's also the physical aspect if someone has a chronic pain condition or maybe got into an accident you know just a similar someone who's maybe coming out of a divorce or has a you know how to mental breakdown you're saying acupuncture can bring them  back into balance and kind of release physical and mental pain you know so i mean the physiology behind that is in the presence of excess cortisol in the system your body actually your receptive your cellular receptors forget how to body is actually able to summon up all of those good chemicals again ok and is that related to homeostasis yes so homeostasis you know our bodies are always working to stay in balance and what is called  have status so homeostasis is just everything working in concert so it's your nerve chemicals it's your hormones it's your neurotransmitters it's your kidney function your liver function your pancreas all of us things that are necessary to sustain life have a very small range of chemical imbalance that they can tolerate before things go awry wow ok and i know you always talk about chea the idea that she was this thing that we couldn't really see how whatever they've actually done studies where they've shown that the acupuncture meridian system which is where we believe chief flows through there are actually not nervous but there are is it more like a life force where it's really well she has considered the life force but there's there are channels there are actual channels that they've seen that kind of flow along nerve channels as well and they've just found them in the in the past couple of years and they have their own unique properties ok so that's kind of where the idea of she comes to western medicine oh yeah and i personally can you know speak to that when i went for occupy i'm sure for pain i had and i felt you know i felt that opening up and i felt that she kind of being released and i think my acupuncturist also mentioned that you know we saw a release here today so you can't really see it but you feel it and you know it's it's basically what nourishes yourselves are nerves and absolutely so it's you know we're we are bioelectric biochemical people so there's always energy flowing and acupuncturist believe that when the energy stops flowing that's when we get pain so there's a chinese saying that with pain there is no flow and with no flow there is pain so we try to reestablish that and if you think of the body is essentially like a giant electrical circuit here then we're just plugging things back and we're opening up the pathways and i think everybody can tangibly benefit from this because at some point everyone has some sort of blocked energy because just because of the lifestyle the environment we you know we live in the food all kinds of stuff stress you know not having enough time for self care so really it's it's bringing you back to holistic health and that's what i really appreciate because my next question actually is on holistic health so can you just go over the difference between how western medicine addresses one part you know and kind of gives you a painkiller whereas acupuncture or chinese medicine would address the whole what's a benefit of addressing the whole if i come to you for maybe a stomach ache what are you going to look into you know my feet my head and my whole body because people don't understand that right so in the acupuncture world we believe that you can't just look at one body part  or one dysfunction on its own we really believe that the entire body is responsible for keeping everything going ok so unlike western medicine where we seek out specialists for all of our different types of issues will go to a cardiologist or a g i physician or someone who's a sinus specialist those are all good but chances are that they're not looking at your body in totality so as an acupuncturist we look at what's going on in your body both historically as well as now sort of what what created the problem so that when you talk about the root of the problem could be we don't are the body you know migrated and had a ripple effect yeah i mean i've had patients who've had chronic stress who developed back problems years later and one of the things that we look for is how did their injury listing in the interim all glanzer in the bag and sometimes when there was a lot of inflammation because of stress back problems can develop as a result of that but anyway the way that we really the thing that we really focus on is trying to bring the body back into wholeness back into its total wholeness where all parts are firing on all cylinders yeah and i think all easter modalities are basically doing that and the shortcoming of western medicine is that you know just addresses one problem and then it also could create another problem so if you're taking painkillers for your back it could harm your stomach right you know they take something for your stomach and something else so it kind of has a ripple effect which doesn't really end right so you know i think what you're saying is really good if you don't want the side effects i think acupuncture could be a really good way to go right i like the idea the other interesting thing about acupuncture is when we put needles and we have an anticipated effect but your body will only do what it needs to do to achieve homeostasis so in that way you really can't you can't have a negative impact the body is so self regulating we just know where the points are and to help with that self regulation and let the body take it from there so in that respect it's different than taking a pill which you may not know how you're going to react to with acupuncture your body will either not respond right or it will respond in a very healing way to the greys because it may not work but it's that i'm assuming or i need more treatments if that was the case but there is no harsh tangible side and there's generally no side effect on the left or thing like no no no not at all it's very self regulating and tapping into the tapping into the body is a much more curative way for healing to happen than putting a bandaid on that or just giving officers who took all the band aids on working so yeah i mean in your mind who would be ideal candidates because i know there is more than one would be for acupuncture and what kind of people with what kind of symptoms you know so just before i even talk about that i often the choice of last resort for people where they have why do you think that is i think there's a hesitation for some people because of the needles people are kind of afraid of needles the needles that we use are all the size of  very flexible most people don't really feel them going in at all i usually don't sew and they and they need to usually stay in for about twenty five minutes and most people very relaxed when they have acupuncture and it is because of the stimulation of all these natural endorphins and opioid c s which is which is really nice but anyway the kinds of people who benefit the most are people who either have chronic pain or chronic stress i see patients with digestive disorders with headaches i have a large oncology practice people who are going through chemotherapy and radiation so let's just focus on that for a moment how do you help people who are going through chemotherapy how does acupuncture help them right so it actually can help them to deal with a lot of the side effects of fatigue neuropathy is very common with some of the patients that i see who are taking chemotherapy that have some heavy metals on it and it has an inflammatory effect on their nerves in their feet and hands very effective for that and you can't discount the fact that it's also very stressed reducing and going through oncology treatment is extremely  basis of all of all of these things pain creates stress also so if you heard something you become stressed out so when you release the stress from the person their ability to heal becomes that much stronger wow so it sounds like it's almost anybody can be candidate for this anyone who leave don't even have a physical problem you know they can come on for stress reduction but especially if someone's out there you know almost addicted to the  pain killers or maybe a part of the opioid crisis they can make a fresh break and try try this and how many times would somebody actually need to go and go for sessions before they notice an effect yeah let me just address the opioid crisis for a second because there is actually a whole addictions protocol that's just done with your needles with acupuncture and it's used in addiction and rehab centers for ongoing treatment for people and what they've actually found is that doing these set of five needles in each year can actually be as effective as methadone for some people who are who are addicted so treatment really depends on so if someone's had something for a long time it generally takes longer or acupuncture if you can you define how long let's say someone had stomach issues of five years and they have just come to you for the first time so how would you start and how long you know so typically for people who have chronic issues i recommend that they try between eight and ten sessions with me however they should really have an idea of whether it's going to work for them within like four to five treatments and the idea is we want to get the relief to actually hold or get them to a point where they're comfortable enough where they feel so much better they may still need to do some maintenance every once in a while but their lifestyle so the kind go back to who they were and you know illness robs you right your your freedom and right now at least they get part of that back and they can eat the things they used to eat or you know do the things like go hiking right right  right contrast that with somebody who has an acute issue and typically they can be fixed in like two or three sessions so i used to be an acupuncturist for a professional hockey team ice hockey team and they would the coaches would send their patients there their players to me and i usually tried to see them within about seventy two hours of them getting her and that's the market and because they were basically in good shape to start out with they got fixed really quickly so again it's more of the acute type of you know so a typical acute injury can be fixed fairly quickly with just a minimal amount of sessions and they opt for that rather than a painkiller or more pointed to the hospital you know so the nice thing about the acupuncture for that kind of for an acute injury is that it can help prevent a lot of excess swelling that can help some really speed blood flow i think they want to get back on the field quickly so the thought of nature as acupuncture really speaks to a lot right and then they also don't have the brain fog associated with taking painkillers so if they need to be alert for whatever they need to do he question for you karen what if somebody come see you and they are taking painkillers but they're open minded to trying acupuncture so do you allow them to continue pain killers or do they ask stop everything no i never take patients off of any of the meds ok or on what typically happens though as they get better their reliance on their medications drops down so to give you an idea you know i've had patients who are on a lot of opioids who've been able to significantly drop down how much they have to take i've had patients with really bad asthma who may be on four or five inhalers a day who've been able to drop that down migraine patients have been able to drastically reduce how much medication they have to take so they kind of wean off with it acupuncture they don't quit cold turkey absolutely and i and i and i also work closely with doctors as well i think for many patients the best medicine is a combination of western and eastern medication and or western and eastern techniques ok so so odd western medicine on that front why do you think acupuncture has not fully integrated into western medicine yet now with some clinics it has legs some insurance plans to cover acupuncture but the vast majority of them are still feeling and as something or maybe even significant that it doesn't work why should we pay for you but the interesting thing that's happened you know this is my seventeenth year of doing this so when i first started there was pretty much just a evidence of acupuncture you know hearsay people talking about how they've done studies out of china again that were anecdotal now with functional m r i and all kinds of funding being given to acupuncture studies through the national institutes of health we actually have hard evidence of the fact that acupuncture can work and because we've got hard evidence on the united states a much more hard evidence base yes it's made a big difference in terms of people coming for acupuncture people being open minded and the other thing too is acupuncturist been getting a lot of proust's you know we a much more of a media presence now and even treating famous people like you mentioned you had the you know the sports team so people are coming to that and you know it's because it's getting more publicity and running the cool thing to do right because people don't really want side effects and  i think also the millennial generation has a different mindset than the older generation were as they are more of the natural you know the natural food health revolution right acupuncture is a part of that and there's a good reason for that because people don't want to suffer anymore right now yeah that's definitely true the thing that i found in my practice as well which is worked out great is many of my patients have reported back to their physicians that they've had really good results and then as a result of that i'm getting doctors as patients so they're forced to yeah for that feedback you know it's kind of by default it will integrate at the end of the day everybody wants to be pain free and if that's what works that's what works right you know that's great and how far do you think we have to go in the future before it's fully integrated and you know i think part of that is we need insurance companies to be onboard because again for the most part acupuncture is a payout of scenario and it isn't my practice i give people a re t that they can then submit to their insurance company and there are more insurance companies that are starting to do it and they're starting to recognize that acupuncture might be a great alternative to getting people hooked  that prove the efficiency or the efficacy of function yeah so functional m r i s are really interesting there m r i is that actually measure blood flow to the brain and what they found is and the nice thing is they're  noninvasive if you don't get any radiation as a result of the so it's not like a regular m r i it's like a regular m r i but functional m r i so regular m r i is don't measure blood flow they're actually measuring tissue soft tissue the way that soft tissue looks yes for damage or right and functional m r i eyes are actually looking at the flow of brain of blood to the brain and what they found is that  stimulating points if you stimulate a point that's associated say with the liver in the brain the area that's the liver part of the brain actually lights up so they've been able to actually tie acupuncture points when you needle acupuncture points to the actual area in the brain that's associated with that organ so functional m r i have really increased our visibility just from a scientific standpoint and acknowledge that there's a direct connection between acupuncture points and and what happens in the brain so that kind of like the imperial evidence that you referred to earlier that you need are there now yeah the imperishable evidence is is there or it's it's definitely being credence to the fact that acupuncture works ok we're seeing that it works so i think that's a good tool to have because people need the science aspect of things to write not everybody's just willing to try and see if it works they kind of want to have a little bit of background all right rate right while my last question for you is do you still do acupuncture at all from time to time like yourself yeah ok what's your favorite acupuncture point so  i actually love the points in my ears there you know you can treat the whole body by treating the areas but there are some really great when you show where they are like what they do there are points that are that are so the entire ear the bod represented on the ear but the points that are points that help to relax the body and they're right and is that mostly for relaxation or is an immune response so that's actually a big neurotransmit opening oh yeah so very relaxing and and so at times when i'll do health fairs and things like that i'll just go and put a couple of points in people's ears and people get really really relax i would go for blood circulation as well because i know women usually tend to have low blood circulation so they want to increase the it's not necessarily that it's actually more of a neurotransmitter and it's a valid point but there are some acupuncturist who only to your acupuncture and they can treat the whole body by doing so this stuff