and will have a lot to say and a lot of information to give you about this program which is a special program at princeton university and it really feeds the educational process that a lot of students are interested in right now and so first of all though jason wesley thank you very much for coming on thanks for having us and they're looking forward to talking a little bit about the acronym pop journal for the program so basically i guess the first question is you know where did the idea or inspiration for pup come from  back in the late ninety's the university was thinking about the pipeline of first generation welcome students that were applying to the undergraduate applicant pool and in part of that self study there was one of the professors involved in that was thinking about initiatives that could support students locally in the application process because not only were we the university wasn't seeing applicants from the broad national pool of low income for centers and students there weren't a lot of students locally who were applying was to go alone free and funded packages to the university well known free and financial aid packages in two thousand and one at the same time they launched the princeton university prepared her program to publish launched you know alongside this big initiative is a much smaller initiative and originally a partnership with princeton public schools ewing public schools and try to public schools and started there in two thousand and nine we added lawrence high school and nottingham high school in hamilton and it was a lot of new information definitely and so with pup they basically broke down the college application financial aid application like process in a way that i could tours and just like additional support i was able to see that there were a lot more options out there than i had originally had known coming from a family of immigrants and it being the first person to have been born and raised in new jersey in the united states there wasn't really anyone or there wasn't any guidance to how to navigate the educational system in the united states and so by getting into a pub i was able to learn all of that and then from there be able to essentially like do what i needed to do in order to go to college if that was something that i wanted to  do and it and i would say it like through my experience overall it was definitely very enjoyable because aside from learning all of this wealth of information i also had the opportunity to me a lot of different students from different communities and  programs teacher prep program for thirteen years i know you teach in the department of earth apology occasionally i do and serve as an advisor to programs in princeton's play center for civic engagement and as an academic athletic fellow for the p n and women's forces firing and driving teams he's prevented and presented at many conferences recipient of many awards he was a high school teacher in west philadelphia high school a leader in that school is college and career guidance team he has a doctorate from the university of pennsylvania the graduate school of education secondary education has nesters and secondary education and is a bachelor's in political science from johns hopkins university no leslie i should mention before we went through the  northeast philadelphia the city year so you know great credentials you know really amazing things that you had in them and i remember you walking across the stage at princeton high school you know early unit and you've come a long way and then a lot of great things since  had so off so but talking about papa what ways does pop support scholars through the college admissions of financial aid application process and how does that work different from what your partner schools are doing sure so we're able with pup to provide incredibly focused and strategic support to our families and to our scholars so that starts when they're admitted to the program and ninth grade thinking about expanding that range of knowledge that someone has about what college is and what college can be and what college is affordable so one of the things that the less they mention right away it was that you know shared with her the sort of new world and we do that from the from the very get go with our scholars so taking them on college tours giving them the experience of taking summer classes here at princeton on campus taking them on a range of cultural excursion throughout their time in the program and then as we move through it so there's three years where overdo it with testing but then they'll see probably up to thirty colleges with us so we'll do a comprehensive northbound tor a comprehensive south on two or local college tours here in the region and then do really individualize college admissions guidance with our scholars and so we know that many of our partners schools school counselors just don't have the capacity to provide the students and their families with that kind of support  regardless of their own knowledge of financial aid policies you know where we found that you know there are about eighty colleges top colleges in the country that provide full financial aid for long term students so you might be looking at a school like that is bird college or the university of richmond and think it costs seventy five thousand dollars a year to go here or seventy thousand dollars a year to go here there's no way i can afford it that's that's two years of family income potentially for some of our families or more than that and what we were able to show sort of very carefully very strategically is that if you get into a place like gettysburg like dickinson like me on board like like bryn mawr or of course get into princeton  that those institutions are going to be your financial need so we have students going up some of the best colleges in the country and they're paying if they're paying they're paying less than what it would cost to attend mercer county community college that's a do that's a great deal  and i also say that we were able to also really look at the family situation to make sure that all of the needs are being met because what we know that we can provide a test prep course we can we can move out of course on the college application and essay writing we can do a literature course or take students out to the theater but if their needs aren't being at home whether that food insecurity or housing insecurity or other emotional moments challenges that they're having that we're not going to have the kind of impact that we want to have so we try to address those concerns as well and i think that's really what we can do differently what we're able to do a little bit more than our partners are where i think you were you know your folly and the question is  's how public gauges so it was so i mean what lou talked a little bit you just mentioned a little bit about you know the overall picture what specifics you do to gauge the phillies sure students that they you know they feel that this is something that they all want to be part of so in the recruitment process we have a meeting that's a parent meeting so right away we're engaging with the students and their families at the application stage and talking with them about the opportunity and the commitment it's not it's not easy to be  scholar it's that significant commitment it's giving up you know summer time and maybe vacation or work opportunities there's you know an after school in richmond obligation so you know we talk about all of the those things with our families and then  admitted to the program we do in a formal orientation and we sign a contract so we sign the contract the new scholar sides of the contract and apparently sign that contract and so that process we kind of develop that community so we're all committing to this venture and that venture is to really to realize the capacity of the student to attend some of best colleges and be successful in those colleges and then just goes from there we do a family needs assessment will provide the whole program is offered at no cost to the families so that's a key thing here so it's probably if you were if you were to try to purchase all of the goods and services the summer program meaning the test prep the eighty four plus calculator the all of the individual supports the cultural richmond you're talking upwards of thirty thirty five thousand dollars of investment the university is making in each student and on the back end of that is potentially a quarter million dollars worth of financial aid and a degree from a place like bryn mawr or wesleyan or occidental that is you know the mark of this market valued at that space and so we use that language to try to engage with parents all the way and then we we try to develop a real support system so that if there is a need that the scholar brings up their family brings up that we try to address those needs as quickly and efficiently as we can and now they actually serve as our puppet of my fellow now and one of the roles  taken on mostly because we need the services of depending on you know staffing in our challenges we've actually grown stuff lately very recently but so less is engaged with our parents as in their careers so but more specifically for those who are in college or are younger professional lums right should they have any late person all or  family needs so for instance whether that if they want to go study abroad however they don't have the finances to cover the plane ticket or the visa then pop can support them with that to even  you know commuting from to and from school and the family home there there's a gas leak can because a pipe had broken so reaching out to pub on it you know how can we support you in this  and so for instance like covering the like replacement fees of like the gas furnace so things that are unforeseeable right but can arise and it could like impacts the family and the student like even after like high school and you know trying to complete their college degree or even after that then pup is still there to provide those services for them because we're all about making ensuring religion and there was a car issue so i ended up bringing the to college so we coordinated a couple of days where i packed stuff into my car and drove it down to my i actually live in philadelphia so i brought stuff down to philadelphia and then when it was time for letter to move in we brought her down and then we coordinate with her mom so that she could get on the train to help leslie actually move in and you know physically be present in that space so we'll do that we'll kind of go that extra mile to make sure that you know all of the hard work that you're doing the three years while you're in the program is going to pay off and the little point where there is an obstacle and this is all based on you know we know that there are all these places for particularly for first generation along comes to dence where they might get the admission to college but not the finance  package and they might get the financial aid package but not have a cosigner for a loan they might get the cosigner for the loan but not have you know the resources to get the twenty extra large sheets to start you know whatever that is there are all these spaces along the way we have a group of students starting off at a smaller arts college in pennsylvania this this week just started and you know the way financial aid works they can't start working yet they haven't got their work study money they don't owe the college anything but they need to buy books so right so there are these moments where we know that transition particularly for first generation welcome student can be challenging and we try to address all of those issues and of course the parent challenges as well if the parents themselves have not gone the god and this is their first child go off to college what support can we provide to the family in just saying hey this is what you should expect and what's great is that three members of the pub team are a lot of the program so we have just this great you know set of folks on the team who can help speak very directly about this is what it was like for me when i went to trenton high school i went to princeton high school we have team you know folks who are on our team in the summer time who are graduates of ewing high school and nottingham high school that are attending galen franklin and marshall and college but i didn't know anything about what questions to ask you to go to how to get to that point of going to college and so i remember getting in the mail a letter from just detailing what the program is about and inviting me to an information session and at that time like i'll admit i was fourteen at that time and a college wasn't  wasn't like at the forefront of my mind during the age of however my mother had stopped me too and i asked to translate this letter for her because she had seen like the princeton university shield on there and like recognized the university as you know a prestigious like institution very and so recognizing the name it she had she had wanted me to translate for what those letters said so explain to her what pup was and you know the invitation to go to an information session and when like the application would be you know open for students to apply and it without us as soon as i had mentioned how the program it's worth  at the time like a thirty three thousand dollars scholarship no cost to us she had told me like you have to and so and that having a choice i was just like ok so i remember going into the guidance counselor's office is conway if she knew anything about pub because it's not like there were any signs of the program anywhere so and she said yes definitely and handed over to me an application for me to fill out and then from there i wouldn't say like it was until once i was when i received the letter you know inviting me to be a part of member of the class of two thousand and eleven that's when it you know i realized like this is a this is an opportunity that i can turn down that this needs to happen also because for me at least i remember in eighth grade i had an english teacher who was was  really interested in like my potential and so she had encouraged me to apply to princeton day school and so i had gone through that application process however i had no idea that in order to apply to a private school there was also a test that you had to take you and so i was completely not appeared for that test and in the end i didn't end up getting that opportunity however knowing that there is a teacher or someone who had seen potential in me like inspired me to you know just like continue doing my work and like doing my best one entering high school and i just had this feeling this whole time i always had this feeling of like you know if i just keep working hard and something good will come out of all of this and so one part came and ate once i got in i realized like you know everything happens for a reason so if i didn't end up going to p t s then like clearly you know i was meant to be a pup and so once accepting that like accepting the invitation and being part of the cold war i just from there just like you know i realized like i did make the right does decision and sticking focus on our parents as well as the logic model kind of the way that we think about everything from the recruitment of students to the selection of our scholars or cohort of scholars the development of community within that cohort of scholars and then the way the program  structured to kind of build on itself every summer so the writing courses the science courses the math courses the way they build each summer but also the work that we do during the school year we have graduate students from the university do weekly after school richmond sessions with our scholars at their home schools so we continue that academic and gauge when it's not you know there are a lot of programs that are either a one off you know one week boot camp for the college application process or you know into the contents of science program and those programs are great and they have they have wonderful impact but what we've been able to do is really nurture the whole the drama of the whole scholar the whole child as i mentioned before you know if someone's coming into an academic space and their their social motion needs are being met they're wellness is impacted by a lack of food or a lack of security at home then all of those things are going to impact the performance and what we've found is that our students are incredibly resilient they're they persevere through some really difficult challenges but they all so we and we need to be aware of all of that and i think for us having a team that has three problem on it having a team that really respects the communities that we're working with coming out of teaching a less well off a high school and walking into a trend in central high school for me was incredibly familiar you know and engaging with teachers and of of components that we're able to put together that make a lot of sense to lead to success and we do like we mean it you know it isn't it isn't haphazard everything is structured everything has a meaning we we invite our scholars when they when they come into orientation they do a pop scholar oath you know so they sort of make a claim about i'm a pub scholar and i'm here because i'm supposed to be here and be the best pub scholar i can be and then we take that all the way through in a contract in the language even calling students so when when i started with pup we it was you know pub students and there was a few pages of a hymn book and now we have a really comprehensive handbook we call the student scholars you think about it as a scholarship and all of those small things add up to a real sense of pride among the scholars among the whole community a little bit a sense of obligation which is ok we don't want to overdo that but a real awakening in what is possible for them when you walk on duke's campus or you walk onto the campus of lesbian university and you suddenly imagine yourself having a very different trajectory in life and then it's hard because you have to balance what's happening at home and my family in ewing or my family and martha might have these opportunities and we recognise all of that we've been doing this for a long time and we can we can anticipate a lot of those kind challenges and prepare scholars to meet all of those various and in any given year there is a mix of students from you know eight or ten students from tretton two or five students from ewing two or five students from nottingham or lawrence couple students from princeton and what's great is that also creates a wonderful cross both of you tell me a little bit about your role models and it was a role model for you in your life was a role model for you in your life so for me it's always been my older brother so he had also gone through princeton high school but didn't end up graduating so by the time he was senior in high school was around the same time that my father had passed away and at the time my father was the breadwinner in our household and so that caused my mother to have to find a job and i ended up working as a custodian at prince university law at the same time my brother because he was in on he's on documented and so this was during the ninety's and it for him the understanding that hit in his position and being undocumented don't want many post grad opportunities for him to pursuing a higher education and so knowing that and understanding that he had and then given everything that was happening in our family at the time he felt like why i continue going through high school why what's the point of graduating if i will not be able to continue after this to go to college and so he ended up dropping out in order to help our family and for me that hearing his story just really like inspired me to to do better and he's always pushed me to do better because being one born and raised here like he always here my mother have always let me know that i have a lot more opportunities that they can that they are allowed to have and so knowing that you know it just like inspired me to you know be able to work hard and take advantage of the opportunities that i have available to me so even things that we take for granted for instance on getting a driver's license which you know as a teenager is a big deal right because everybody wants to know how to drive and like be able to drive around but you know being undocumented you don't have that luxury and so those are just like you know little things that again like we just take for granted but understanding like the fair my family and like the role like me being a citizen like understanding that like position that i'm in you know learning how to take advantage of the opportunities available but also like supporting my family as well so if you re inspired by the scholars that i work with so you know we see students who come into our program and i graded to be able to bring them back to work with us to be on our summer faculty to be on our team to watch them graduate from law school i just wrote a letter recommendation for someone who's applied to be a police officer in trenton and whatever that next phase of their life is to be able to do that is incredibly inspiring so it's not that there's a role model that's like someone who's done some extraordinary achievement in and of healthy stay active stay focused and have a good