is a great pleasure because we're here talking without sue here in she's a senior vice president with a very interesting organization really interesting organization called the leadership directories incorporated and she's  of your background but also the institution or the end of the itself because what you do is very very interesting will be interesting to a whole lot of people you in the organization do in terms of making information available and sharing it room with him about fifteen or twenty years ago a really nice guy in brilliant man brilliant man but also very very good yes and they don't necessarily go together but they did and his creation and i see a good choice in terms of who really think you know let's in talk about it is because the information why don't you give us a rundown ok so leadership directories started out as a print directory company publishing books management and the government the people who are running the sewer department yeah highways department and that's a great resource for getting things done in at the municipal level but also for organizations need to sell incredibly important work that you're doing and it must be a big job trying to keep up with that and you want to as much as you can in a realistic conduct to keep it current absolutely possible it's because the changes are going on all the time successful as a result whether it's a sales project or an outreach of some kind or you know on reading yeah that's what it makes you feel good they knew were able to the work that you're doing is there help artists there yeah he's helping someone achieve their goal able to inform them you know yeah and the people who are informing them they often are being informed by staff who are really the important people who really got the important issue so it's informing the society in ways that could be of these institutions have a unique they have a unique structure i mean who's influencing walked in that kind of thing and you have to give patterns that c e o mr smith is informed by his executive is and professions and nonprofit you have this ability to see a person's professional reach so you can see if he's sitting on the board of a  that if they're on this board over here and then that board over there they might be able to introduce you to someone and you also see the way that organizations are connected because we will link the fact that a particular law firm is has certain major clients or off someone and lobbying for a particular organization we're going to have that information so you can see the kind of that relationship and which can be interesting particularly from a legal perspective when you want to know who is working for yeah those matters really exploration for the structure of the society right but then who knows whom thing is something that we we take those relationships the connections the patterns and we have them available in a product that we call leadership networks could you that's the whole thing right so you can put your name in and say ok you know how how can i get to know this person who i know that could possibly introduce me to that person and that's where the information goes from being just a static you know word on a page that was me wasn't very interesting back in the old days of the directories where it when you start being able to apply a logic to it really sort of making it flex its own muscles it becomes interesting and it becomes useful and you can actually start doing real things and information yeah you can do that and the it would be people who'd be writing a book you know what i think you know connection i better that are being made available to people really that is very useful you know not only you know in terms of systems thinking or using or informing but also in very practical real terms right yeah is specifically you're dealing with that as a as a personal responsibility in the people who work with you in that in our pretty into the overall pattern being the entity and so ok my team i think there's about forty of us we are in charge of researching all the information and maintaining the quality of it updating it ongoing basis you're just keeping up all the information relevant through the operation on what we consider to be the largest most powerful most influential organization and we won't have every single nonprofit foundation that out there we only are going to have the ones that have the the biggest budget the database is updated daily for them and we really daily and they're going to get they get alerts little e mail alerts telling them you know bob is gone he's been replaced by john and sally and on every hand i think that's getting to be a information when they logon because it's very important because we don't want them to waste their time you know they're coming to us who are performing a service for them because to save them time and to make the effective at their jobs so we will we have a variety of different ways that we keep the information dated you know the one major way is that we have a contact at every organization we list and this is typically someone who's working in a p r department or communications or sometimes marketing someone who has cooperated and know i would say probably a couple one hundred thousand wow that's a lot yeah because if you know if you have a major corporation you wouldn't send out the information you have for a major corporation just one single person and you know if you have a subsidiary in detroit you there and you're good that's your responsibility to keep it up to date not right you know so we've been employing more technology in the recent years to help us with our updating it started you know the internet the great internet interruption was so focused initially on how you produced your products how you put them out to your customers ok we can't just offer books anymore and you offer cd rom and they're offering online products and now it's you know mobile and apps and everything but then you also have to think about utilizing the same technologies for your the operations side of your business keeping your information up to date because as the internet affects people it changed what customers want change their expert expectations they have demands now that you know they see something in the news they expect that it's going to be updated in our database that same day it's a little hard to see really the next day you know but you know just give us twenty four hours but it so we're monitoring news to make sure that we're getting those changes we're getting feeds press release feeds in all the time we're getting feeds from government filings we have technology that's watching websites and sending us snapshots of websites saying that this little piece of information was removed in this because piece of information was added and we're watching the sites that are relevant to the content that we list so that we can make sure we have it most up to date we're going to talk through something that anybody who's in the it's  market or something like that there's a thing called the bloomberg wire it seems to me you can't be in that business without the bloomberg why they're keeping it right up to date right to the nd so are so you can't do that because that but that's focused on a relatively narrow set of indices right right right right yours is a more comprehensive systems approach to what's going on right in the universe resolute as well he's ordering you know real time financial data yeah updating we are doing people databases organization databases and we because we cover the spectrum of organization types a unique challenge that we deal with that some of our competitors don't some of our competitors will say oh we're we're focused in primarily on congress or on media data where there are poor and corporate data it's you know it must be so easy science and everything like that and it's monumentally important and everything we're getting inundated with information some good some bad in there but we're information overload permits pattern recognition between the subsets that make up the old perot system rather than cover we would not be able to see those patterns of who knows who you know across you know close relations to nonprofits and that's interesting information if you are getting to know people for getting introductions or for just you know legal a little bit  deliver the patterns that our information helps us to either other analog or systems that are similar to that you're familiar with that are like sort of sister or brother or nephew or aunt go entities that are doing something similar to a good number and i'm a big fan of that and also i think it's an important capability it would not have been profitable in this girl and implication without the cyber i mean well you know you couldn't have done it the  g the telegraph sending two or three messages a day from one town to another yeah you know it's interesting eight by the time i joined the company the fax machine existed yeah and i know imagine that prior to the fax machine it must've been a lot more difficult oh yeah you know it was you'd be doing a lot of mailing i mean even when i started we were mailing copies of the information to the contacts of the organization but i think yeah it seems silly now but at the time it was fine because expectations were aligned with capabilities and they knew that to produce a printed directory and pop it in a mail you know once per quarter was fast nowadays that's not fast so the to have some much of an understanding of reality that is actionable and also accurate right through improving the human condition and the environment it's a good point that you make because back when you were only updating it quarterly it's not like the changes at the corporations were happening any less frequently ever they were and it was always very dismaying as soon as you sent the book off to the printer inevitably a c e o died yeah right right always every time yeah sure you know bill that happened yeah  side you're starting your day by looking at the results that are coming from the websites even looking at your you know hundreds and hundreds of links to websites that it's a using a special them in the database so you know sally smith today is senior vice president of marketing and then we find out that she is executive vice president of marketing so we're going to change her and update her in the database they appear we the database highly fielded highly structured we put titles in exactly as we get them and it's important to structure the information the data being there so be it leave you know you want to be able to represent to the customers you can have a computer look at a snapshot of a website and tell you from one day to the next what changed but you need a human being to really analyze that and say ok how my presenting this to the customer hello entering this in the database because the other thing that  you use it but you don't set up the parameters of work do you have important terms or how changes might be made and that will in terms of the way the information is presented to yeah you are i would think it was use the term kempley rather system in place when i hear you say template template i'm using is not here to me that that would correspond to the database the database to me where we enter the information right right and then the so the content team are the ones you know that's reading information in the database yeah then the products team products change which is also me you know my other half my other team yeah they're the ones who are taking the information from a database and figuring out how to present it to the customers giving like a print and the information that we make available to customers is there and you can browse it so you can look at a representation of the department of agriculture with all the different levels are higher than all the people who work there  well but structure that isn't berber in tremendous it's got accurate depth but it's more looking at the pattern between different things they mean the higher level of reality th but how do special longish would do right if you understand what i'm saying yeah we i think that's really important at the simplest level the way we deal with it is someone would have a job let's pretend that you're the vice president vice president of human capital they're all doing the same function they're doing human resources personal development type of role if you have a tag yeah if you're doing a keyword search you would necessarily pick up all three of those people if you're looking for the people who do that role do you have functioned yeah but with a single tag that we've applied because we're smart yeah ok that's human rights where you are you talking about your so let contests people you're going to run you're smart educational implications or your it's a good one click you know you don't need to know that all these people have these different titles and they're saying we're saying to you they're all doing human resources and so we're going to apply that tag and obviously this is a very simple example but just simply applying that tag and then the customer can come on and say i want all human resource resources people and they don't they're not doing a keyword search of human resources in the title they're  intelligently applied tags to get the information that they need very quickly very easily we hope to make sense of what could otherwise be a bit of a lawless lawlessness i think what you're doing is very very very institutions ought to be thinking and the educational process and so i think the implications of what you're doing are really much more palatable to more people than they might think they might be thinking they're run down a deal where they can understanding of what's going on in the information overload environment i mean i think you do understand that of yeah yeah absolutely i'm glad i can help well you know it's help or did i want to be recognized and supported and so forth and that's why we want to have you here to explain it to us and everything is very important and you've got that many people who do you work regular do you do you do any computing from home i  justice in a year in europe or you know do you reach out to international things or will prices coming from rabbi or so on in terms of international most of th do we had typically in our approach to researching information we would find a sector so one of the last sectors that we added to our collection was not profit and we have typically will go very broad so yes and but we were not industry specific oh you're looking at non profits and we were thinking about we were deciding who to add based on the spend as much as you can within the limits of do ability to use right it's very easy to add information and any search information it's very difficult to keep it updated and maintained at the level that you really want to for your hundred trillion makes the internet look at a simple willy one hundred trillion cells and each cell as an individual nature to it and each has its own personality if you can a and his own individuality and each cell is connected with every other cell through a thing called d n a as a system right and so with human beings each individual is important all the national security agency you followed to do it and yes that and and also other reporters who are reporting the corruption of the system and that sort of thing so i and the invasions of privacy rights that are going on now we've got drone string moment when the jam session really is in your arms yet you know that's a sort of thing that we might be looking for in order to get some sort of a new something going create a force in the universe that makes human experience nest within the  the lots of things that motivate how do we understand human society you know that there's a lot of different things that can be cause it to do things like there's something called love there's something called like mother love there's called you know there's all kinds of empathy all kinds of things like but the major thing it seems to be at the moment in terms of the the earth the way it's operating is money it seems i don't know if air on thursday and he's written a book the god problem how a godless cosmos creates a god that the god thing is something that's probably been there and it's important to a lot of people and everything but i probably a myth and that there was an evolutionary process and that they've had people who tried to explain it in everything like that but how are we going to live in a world in anything absolute this system thing is where you have a resonance is something more than the sum of the maximum engaged entity is a residency that is a maximum engage system and so what it does is synergy  synergy is the behaviors systems unpredicted other some of the parts there's something more than the sum of the parts of a system so what does any science seems to be saying that makes up a best understanding of the universe from string theory and the big bang and harang like that the it gets there it is sitting so it rolls out any absolute isn't there something more than the sum of a residency of a result of two an unusually creative time yes yes two hundred thousand years we've been here on the planet that all men one thousand generations wow and they had to come up with creation stories to give a sense of meaning conserve and consume and every but then there's another one where you could you you get tension going through the hole in your create the new man the new has emerged and he emerges a species about two hundred thousand years ago ten thousand generations of put it we've been on the planet mars and we're coming maybe to the end you think well we might be yeah i think it will and i don't know for very right there now but we're coming to the end in the sense of the weapons of finally become species l now that's that's down to you could run down if your boys to you a it question would you be able to answer a question that somebody poses to you in your research thing like i don't know give me  to that's not a question i could probably help with directly because that typically you're talking about personal wealth with you know you're talking about the capability to provide material sustenance and material goods to the population of the a civilization where it's always been led by a few people who live in a castle and the p p hands are running around wallowing in the mud you know in terms of our capability we have the capability and we get to the point where maybe we can have a much higher percentage of the world maybe there's a greater percentage maybe good or fifty percent mark is that we may be transcending material scarcity is an ontological reality and man vs that was never been a plan until about this time right maybe but when you have some arts groups performing arts and arts groups not a whole lot on that side though i was that's more on the humanities right those are the things that usually don't figure in the hard headed business to make right but very much right maybe they do is p r isn't it so what is interesting is that the hard headed business people are going to be sitting on those boards they're going to be sitting on the boards of institutions that claim to be is decreasing we've got five percent of our labor unions are organized now they're very little power and the only way they had to distribute income to the masses of people is through what they all a job like the surf on a futile to states around the production assets of the leadership is and whether or not we can do that we're running into a problem that we've got a terrific capability of providing maybe where everybody could win a great everybody was  maybe in a point of we could liberate we're not only homo sapiens species we may be coming into a new relationship in the cosmos you know that's what happens when the new appears we appeared about two hundred thousand yeah and you're doing it but the in to the i'm just thinking of the educational institutions to the general society of what you're doing that might be able to be are you expanding the width or the depth or i don't know how you the different ways you can contact we talked earlier about social media yeah and apple do you want for the individuals the twitter and the facebook and if they have a blog at all that level so there's more and more for each individual person that we're trying to add constantly and then at the institutional level there is us one sector of our content that were expanding in two thousand and fifteen you know i can't really talk about yet but it's going be very exciting in the summer but we're we're going you you know you're you're building these website and you have to do the front end work closely here on a website when you're on a web site you might not think about it but there's someone who has to think about every step that you're taking away where you're putting that button designed this so that people will know how to use it it'll be friendly and comfortable and this step and then that step and you have to think about will they make a mistake and you have to plan for the fact that they might make a mistake  exchange for sales force or good sales force is a cloud base you are around a lot of color you are in a customer relationship management look at a lot of organizations use sales force to manage their sales process so they have their sales  loaded in they have their customers loaded in there they can watch lead as they go through the pipeline they can project their sales depending on the level people use it for different things  man there are going to be great resources for people who are working in the federal sales or state local sales divisions of their organization because they're going to be able to from within sales force log in and get committees are still huge state of flux yeah you trying to keep up with all those leaders things we have to ask you you have to and you have the ability to do it with your team we had one hundred and fourteen congress ready to go on january th the day they were wow absolutely and because we started in november we had them the day after election day we had the the elect one hundred and fourteen dollars available to our customers boy oh boy it's really a challenging thing there's so many things i got off and ran everything but i think it was understand nothing good that's better than any way that i can manage it yeah but that's really interesting stuff and again let's just let the people know it's good it's called the leadership directories and you've got a site leadership out com leadership directly dark you can get all the news i mean you can get all the contact you might need and yes and everything like that and then maybe even think about getting it out with you to come to the web site and sign up for a free trial and you can take he said that he wrote a book called the the gutenberg galaxy it was about d we're transcending print right we're coming into electronic age and everything like that and that that we books books books are not selling well now you know that people are going electronic by and large i just bought a book last week well i know because there you go you're you're you're a creative and a lot of people but in any realistically not idealistically or off the do card set up a template to could help this birth or this releasing of energy and meaningful existence to a whole lot of people whether it be at a very low regular bayley level or at a very high intellectual level of concern and if they could follow in your enjoyment of what you do it would be a good example for all of