clips of and so forth but there's a great deal more involved in his life and so more than i ever really welcome very much conversations and into manhattan that were so on the one thousand three hundred in st person well one thousand six hundred and thirty  accessible to folks so maybe more and more folks available start making good films and there are you know there might be you know some really important creative stuff going on there but what about your own back here from new york a movie share some of that would be wonderful have more and more equipment would make more and more good things but when you think how many people have video cameras and how many people have cameras and how long they've had them and how few great photographers yeah makers there that maybe that we're all caught up with the idea that if it isn't hollywood it isn't worthwhile and we don't people have the wrong idea like the film that you know you made that stadium right in all of that cascade swimming pool and actually very much a new yorker and as a matter although i travelled everywhere as you know and there for many years and morocco and india and travel to the hopi and of course to europe my cousin has actually had cots which is interesting enough i don't mention that to roughing i don't know when it might get me into trouble it's not as if i know but we are closely related and so i'm right at home in new you know you might king of historic trip i made that trip twice and then i didn't know of course but later on when i read about kerouac i sees he also took that boat rid same boat yeah they invited you to be able to do that in those days yeah it's good it there you know in ten years with quite a place i mean it you knew them you knew these people alan of course yeah well i mean i guy got different relationships with different people jack mitchell mean was a great yeah soul who passed on last year and close to the time of brands or in fact i have a wonderful picture  of in a different kind of place so exotic i felt right at home right ok and you were there you were there like a weekend visitor you were there for a long time well i stayed for a little riled certain things happened then i left came back and i said what am i doing back here and then i got on another yugoslavian freighters soon as of the st thing i saw when i got off the boat was amazing in casablanca was that there was it was an enormous pile of crates right right you know right you know that's where the boat comes in they're on loading things and all these crates were still  to point is in and those daisies to be no order to do any make anything television or film because i've got this hollywood we've got the networks we've got this thing but the camcorders became camcorders and so with now we're getting down to where old people was showing eight couldn't believe fellow made a really good film there would have been millions in the old order of making for a few one thousand you know so i mean it's getting that's getting down in the hands of the folks if it doesn't get all caught up within the commercialization you know on a profit and or my film was shot things they had digital cameras yeah and it's just a regular eight millimeter what they called oh that was an old sony and you know they did a millimeter was an advance because it was so compact so easy you know to handle and that kind of thing but it's getting it's getting in the hands of the folks that's what i'm saying well that's great know coming out a literate in a certain sense and the thing is that they should be having a chance for people to really express themselves and capture some of the realities of the roundness and so forth in ways and make that kind of stuff available more than we have i guess what i'm saying is the hope and one of your capturing you know i used to have a record in my attic we have addicks in the midwest i don't have addicks in new york they haven't had a really put all that i'm done for and we found it and we had a thing was a cylinder and i follow the record thing you put it on it's it this is a demonstration wrecked chord of the new columbia talking she i mean we didn't have those things until recently and then it's galloping toward the media and things are becoming more and more available to us but we're going to keep moving in a sense you're right you started writing you taking pictures and then you when you were up in  could be tales to be told of your days and caught my new i mean like an incredible writer on a not for me just really quickly but then we want to go on to this incredible festival and show that put from the i mean for me for example every photograph for me is like one of those japanese flowers you put  town but yeah but being born here and born in the bronx i feel that one of the privileges of being a real new yorker is that i like to say that you were born if you're born in the bronx like i was yeah those years you're born with the raspberry on your lips o s going to a coma mail and was telling me certain things about it and i decided i wanted to go so i didn't have any money he gave me some money and i didn't have any film because i had to spend that money for rent and for other things to cover myself when i was away  somebody he would sell me the film decide on credits and then finally i saw that the box of film he had a little white termites you know like eating through the boxes but the plastic containers were intact yeah i said you're really going to sell this you  occurring four different places and india my favorite is the a la bod when i've gone to three out of the four yeah so i went to that mail i went to the eighty one male the new jane which was also great and took a lot of photographs there and had great personal work myself up to that is a town in india yes yeah right all right and they they were going to every twelve years or some well every twelve years and each one of four places which means that actually every three years there was a mail in one of these four places and me to make this film and you know what for many times to come along and said if i could get the money that he would come and whatever and so one thing leading to another i didn't believe very much in the idea that i could raise this kind of money but someone they get their yeah right right right anyway they know but they just go there whatever i thought i needed i couldn't get in that was relatively little and someone gave said to me it's too bad you're on as the big man meaning someone that we knew in common yeah that could afford to maybe make a serious donation he said you should tell him that you're making a film yeah and i said well i don't i'm not make your thing in photography i'm saying i just want to do it my own way so anyway they mentioned to him if i had the money i wanted to make a three months and yeah right you did in ok well i brought two video cameras and i brought along my friend ira land who had not had any experience shooting video but was technically so adept i knew that he could master you know the camera and what you have to do with it no time so he shot a lot of it and i also took a lot of stills directing it being and it getting sunstroke and funny and the end taking about six hours of you know over sixty on a personal right where i want to get the film out there yeah let's get it out of that is so let's set it up and it's about these tattoos and these people in india that go to extreme lengths in terms of their religious faith and it's an incredible thing so we're going to show now st thing about seven minutes or so the beginning of the stored more jane and not seek where the famous voyage and it's a new and gave me a place to sleep besides that was gone is who said someone should write a book called kings with straw mats it would be impossible to estimate how many tons of almighty can look after a yogi apart from all the drugs used to induce ecstasy and vision some of the highest yogis unfix years at differ on time one hundred is said except for getting even higher through meditation standing on one leg for twelve years or more even sleeping while standing with the aid of a hanging swing others known as x box while one of us hold their arms up for similar periods of time worries and i don't want to have to remind you of simon starlight he's sitting on a column you know of you know in terms of the western christian for those are i right as it was commonly perceived that had all kinds of people or doing special things to prove their devotion pole courts with hooks in their skin which i've never seen personally nor can hang from trees and things like that but these these practices are not quite like that and but they do take enormous stamina yeah and courage to stay on one leg or you know holding the arm up i think is a list difficult feat because it must be atrophied into that position yeah i mean it i don't know how it's done but my guess would be that i don't want to give secrets which i have haven't been revealed to me y try to figure things out and why i write right now about anything you know rather than just take other people's opinions and i can figure out how that could be accomplished but standing on one leg by and even sleeping with the aid of a hanging swing yeah that's something that requires a lot of stamina why would you think you know so the you see one standing in the ward there and also the man with the his nails holding his arm up yeah that's the give a little minor point about it but which is very interesting is that in his sand there is something in that and what it's not the picture of his mother you know or sweetheart but it happens to be a stone written on a stone is you know a representative of shiva in the sense of the lingam know they have these laying him stone yeah in a sense he's holding a physical representation of shiva's lingam and his and you know which is the creative aspect of the god ok and that stone is in there the whole time which he's holding onto now this thing exist on nothing and begging is actually the idea to live only by the sake of your begging bowl you know and people are enjoying so that's still there no war is all right now what i mean don't exactly is that we don't have a comparable to that in the west well no because i saying it's only been in very few recent years that india has changed and it takes a lot more to change all of india in fifty years you know in the right ever when we didn't have even television yes right we did have television because but you know what i'm saying is that as if it's changing in india the great many people have that reverence and understand that the people that carrying that tradition in faith and they are very powerful you know we don't have that in the way how we were going to reverence for that when they the closest thing we have it's the difference between you know the pope and the church and the vatican and the simple act of you know a christian christian piety performed by some person simple person in the country you know that has that faith it's not the a five hour film as i understand there's a lot of great things but the indians hated that film and they tried to ban it or whatever they did to because they he was showing poverty and all kinds of other things that he saw with come out right and i'd be sure that one of those hindu side was on that space ship right there otherwise people would live just like they need i'm not comparing that guy to a monkey but when they put the monkey on and they see where the monkeys because i didn't but it has to do with the thing that's changing is the technology is what's changing and that's what perhaps in the liberate could be liberating us i would say in that we've crossed from a another thing you asked me what would you like to see is that we have actually transcended the material logic reality of scarcity that haven't caught up with us yet we're still suffering at ourself this hour that's something i would have thought about but this is really an incredible kind of thing you've done you were there how long well on that trip which was a short trip i went to specifically to the middle i didn't why i was feeling so we're not what i was it's not what i was having a nervous breakdown like i couldn't handle yeah my ashes so to speak but i realized i had sunstroke and that's what was so i had it sort of like a lax for three or four days sort of back out yeah yeah yeah  pleasure set up let's run that make sure we get that piece of you have the editing a job morgan harris without which the film could never been completed and again someone who saw the film when he was sixteen and wanted to work with me on it did when he was a twenty eight which was almost the same as that seems like an awful lot of folk there with five hundred thousand but there's a ten million dollars people they organize everything including without puerto sands yeah they work it out much better but every once in a while there is an unfortunate tragedy a bridge collapses or something i'm talking about you know every male over years and years you know not every time the even have one yeah but they have this in a town and i mean they know there's going to be ten million people that's you know humanity coming  this will end this will they go for you know weeks or whatever they then they will go back to other parts of india as wherever they were you know up in india you know we bear with me you go you're walking through india you're walking through new york you would have in bombay or in calcutta or something these people are walking around like they are and they also don't get somewhere or not do they just blend into the side and they kind of want to have a kind of blend in and they tend to be in less than places yeah whereas there are and i mean this is a pilgrimage that happens many of they are but there are always some people there are these people all do they tend to be have this caste system in there which is hard to understand you know that touchable got i d's people from all caste or is this when you were going these religious orders you're going out of the caste system into something else it's all different kind of thing where the caste trip doesn't apply would there be brahmans it would be part of the yasmin or does it tend to be no where you everybody can be in there from the poorest orphan with whatever gaz to the highest swami or university professor they can be and i had joined a they do in fact the tradition the tradition would say really that you know you live out your life in a certain way you take on the duties of a young person then you get married you have a family take care of older people that your kids grow up and then when you get to be at the last ashram of your life you go up by yourself and you join this kind of group or live as assad do and some and that's an old prescription but there are many people who join up for different reasons at any point in their life and a lot of young disenfranchised people who might choose that you know enter into that order and then of priest i mean i can't answer for those situations it depends who it is and what's the situation but you know to a certain degree in modern india you know people who have the same goals as people have and western countr country and everything else even in or of them still if they is if that's what i'm getting at is this something that is has provided or taking an assumption that we're going to get some material progress and it's not going to be the grinding poverty confronting the human condition and so what as the condition lessons and lessons will these things you think disappear and people go into a mental illness but i have no idea what is your sense of it and what's my sentence and i'd into that i think i think that you know there is some idea in india elsewhere in the world of a golden age and then another age and then the kali yuga which is the end of everything you know you know they say the signs of the kali yuga you know among which would be that people don't even call their own food does that sound familiar yeah it does you know so i don't know is that a plus you know if you can actually have it delivered from you know if it was a little sort of a lonely chinese restaurant or you know or whatever they're going to have these robots now they're going to these robot little things that are fly through the air and do i mean it's very convenient i don't find it disturbing if i want to do that but i'm saying that just the concept of you know what you put into the food you deal with it once in a gun as bob was a grew of mine yes said don't cut those society we're heading for you know the world that we're moving into which is some other kind of intergalactic science fiction fantasy or armageddon or whatever you want to see it as i mean i think the need for this these kind of people and their knowledge will only become greater ok whether or not they're going to be around you know when they you know they all smoke the shiva always smoke ash and they still she has and they still can be given that by the king of nepal when they come to