live and so forth and what we're going to be wanting to talk about in this section what is the the decorative possibility of the but what weapons that are part of the thermo nuclear arsenal of the world and the fact that some people who have them are able to be the leading element geopolitically in terms of political power among the nations of the world is an issue that's before us now and the question of it is is there some way in which the power that is contained within the destructive capability of nuclear energy could be effectively utilized or what's the relationship between the destructive capability and the possibility of that energy being a source of energy to to bring energy to the development of an emerging world of general  fluence and benefit to the human society or are they two separate things destructive capability is one thing use peaceful use of energy to solve the problems for confronting mankind is another matter and the two will never meet or is there any use of the productive capability that is inherent in the energy of the of the of the atom in the nuclear age and that not able to have an  peace and for human rights human rights for a long time was associated abby used depression but we also have to look at it itself so that there's two kinds of nuclear energy we talk about nuclear energy and so many quantum's of this or that or something as a saying that exists but some of it exists in a way that is totally useless except as a weapon and others are useful in a positive sense to help the human condition is that what you're saying the weapon is knowledge the atoms power that exist within the weapon system can have no contained within a weapon system is qualitatively different than the energy used for good purpose but this chronic there are two different things here we use a different term for them lot of the important part of the days about one rd of the world do not have access to safe drinking water so i'm here i'm understanding what i'm trying to get at is the power that exists within  can not in fact it can not in practice it cannot tell and you could not tap into the energy in a hot tub in a trident submarine to do good benefit to i guess what i'm saying there's no way we could do it let's say use the energy contained in a trident submarine which is a great threat to the world population that exists in the atlantic ocean with great so anybody who says we could tap into the weapons systems the energy contained in the west some systems developed to kill each other can in no way ever be used for anything other than killing because it's different than the energy system from adamic energy that we've discovered that can be useful what is the did you have physical difference between the energy in the one and the energy in the other not the use of th the story so the destructive capability that these studies say it's all major now and the means by which the nations of the world have combated was one another and fought wars i greatest power military power to coerce the other and become the chief of the world and the wars are waged between nations in order to be the strongest guy on the block is now out of date with the fact that those weapon systems if they're on the least are really used would be destructive of the entire species what are we going to do with them well that is why i said that they should weapons how do they get rid of the nuclear weapons do we have to what happens to the energy contained in making a nuclear weapon so destructive that it will go away fuel elements for the nuclear power plant well that sounds to me like it could be utilizing the power contained in it for destructive purposes by mixing it and making it useful for priest values rather than burying it or possible to be able to take the power of a nuclear weapon and treat it in a way that makes it useful and safe for providing good things of the atomic energy that does exist within the systems that serve new energy while it's possible but geo politically is just not favorable to the mass and nations of the nations of the it's a political thing not a scientific question that is that salvation of the planet if they can get to where they can run that arms race backward for the benefit of the mass of the population that have been so ill served to their advantage in create the good world that we can see is now capable of being provided if we have adequate energy to do what we know we now are capable of doing which we have and that's my suggestion could use for good rather than rather than limit by eliminating them and have a way to run it backwards to the benefit of a liberated humanity that is now before us technologically that we can't do because we're all still caught up with zeroes for wonder when one is bigger than the other and the g it's a geo political thing not a matter of science sure ok well that's a very important question don't you think i better reputation in world society if they would take advanced state in that direction rather than building more weapons but this corey to do say my being my weapon is bigger than yours it you and i'm more powerful than you and the old git the political order you could be issuing in a world of liberation for the whole population is what we want to arrive at this quite a good one i mean a system produce safe i'm people leave say try and really that's the case that we have a capability of now all kinds of studies show we've got a capability of providing for everybody in a living r at is not a matter of scientifically impossible to have out of the arms race we're no backwards it is something that in fact would have huge public relations value to the company that the country that takes that commission dated weapons of destruction and bring it to the advantage of the masses of the people with programs that we know we can do but were held up because we don't have enough energy to do what we're going to do it could bring energy t have the energy to do the good things we're now capable of doing for the whole of world and i think that the people good despond good because it's i think the world word so where is the leadership that could go in that you would be in favor of that as an engineer understands the problems and all of the questions of the atomic energy it could be tapped for good purpose rather than just building more destructive capability that continue to increase yes sir it would be to a more liberated in a realized liberated humanity that much of politically youthful humanity is saying is now possible but the old guys are still caught up with the old patterns they're out of date the new thing coming and new birth it's like being in the womb and you're going to leave the womb into a new way of being that we've not been for two hundred thousand years of our existence that's a good idea listing but that might be the kind of thing we're going to have to come to by our political leadership and intellectual leader chip is very important and that this is where we have to no better way to get rid of it by you gritty by getting rid of it you turn it into a thing that cannot be killing great but or what but for fuller and others in living memory and supplying a good better life for the masses of the to build a good world from different weapon systems that are no longer relevant to destroying it that's something that would be well to be let loose in the world don't you think i think that good is something that many people good open or do you want to run for president on that issue maybe you could run for president of the united states i bet you have good zorro aster in background and you have a lot of ethics and a whole lot of other things that would do well to say look why don't we just make this world well for everybody instead of just threatening each other in the old way that isn't necessary in the longer because we've got ability to take care of everybody that we never of had we now can make the world right for dismaying isn't it they're fighting each other over issues that are so silly that this corrects and making it worse yes by the old way it's called for this understanding go after fundamental that something isn't that something you could just laugh at if it wasn't so tragic and yet it's so abroad in the world and all it might be we could have a world where everybody in general terms just talking one metaphysically perhaps but also just in terms of material reality is it possible for us to have a world where everybody let's just use a term is a have in terms of their life they have a home they have a cells in inner human organism i believe every cell as an individual identity and every cell is connected to all the other cells in a way that makes a system so if we had a liberated humanity or transcendent to what we've been over two hundred thousand years of history which daedalus called history is a nightmare of injustice which it has been in terms of the merging future and that's what we've been born into way where it could present that possibility to people rather than one to say we're going to knock the other guy down we're going to build something that's resonating to the benefit everybody in the world and we have a way to do it and we can use energy this atomic energy to benefit and build the systems that can make that world possible i think that would have some golden distance in the political reality of the world don't you read the fact that the t one of the what do you know the reason that you go to in the press is lack of trust yes absolutely if the history of the world so you have to create that trust you have many illnesses and should be to unite against those diseases now begin to see each other that the challenge is probably always been there but we didn't have the possibility such as we have now to actually realize we couldn't have done it in the end century the th century the while thought any time other than now which maybe is the promise before us just as we have the weapons systems that are there wasting our energy where we could blow up the whole species it's absurd existence and yet we take that as something intrinsically to the we were real world be realistic but what i'm suggesting the business you've been in of atomic energy could be useful and not a weapons thing that a lot of my people and that would be something that could help build a national or claim for a new way of being that the times call for is interesting that enemy and that the history of the world but we've got to come to something new a yeah and i don't think we could have gone to the moon had not been some developments are coming out of nuclear energy and the and the energy to get us there we couldn't have done it if we hadn't got to the stage same thing that motivated it with the motivation of the thing i'm suggesting that the nuclear business of the world can be something that can be used for good honest purpose in that direction and not be seen just as something by which one gang can get probably are over another one which has been the game we've been playing and it's got to be led by somebody it seems to me like the nuclear engineers or the nuclear people that are involved with that kind of thing and understand  well like yourself could be people you could help educate people to the sense there we could turn these nuclear weapons into something beneficial rather than just deny them we could turn them into something beneficial and that would be like seeing a hole is coming out of a bomb going to create good life for a lot of people because that would be contributing to a better world that is now possible to us by the historical development of what's going on in the planet nuclear energy is a good field for you to be studying because it's something that could be very very instrumental in providing the liberation of the world population rather than seeing it only as something destructive is part of it could be more i've probably more it could be it could contribute along with other things it could contribute to the opening of one the idea that we live in a time of liberation a time a positive development  universe and we're part of a very gifted period in your human history that is never a bad name any anything to rival it in history we live in a very very interesting and pregnant time of qualitative and perhaps a liberating possibility for the human society within the within the universe it's i think this is a good idea but if you grew back to the geopolitics zeroes for wonder when somebody has to lose we're transcending material scarcity at an ontological level for doing good creating a good world for everybody like an organism and everybody c participating in that and we've been privileged to be reborn into that time and it's been led in the lodge for sale by much of the development of energy that is nuclear and nuclear can be one of the great handmaidens creating a really good and there use the energy for good purpose and this correct yes i can be done and that's an tremendous store of energy rather than being at the behest of people who want to destroy the whole but the whole population of the world be used liberate the world and it's not is a good thing not a bad thing yes i agree with you you do and it is people don't some people think nuclear energy is nothing more than a bomb that's going to kill everybody they don't trust that they think it's understand what i'm saying they ought to be dissuaded of that and understand the benefit of nuclear energy has been to bring about this state of the world which may be on the moment of a qualitative liberating transformation evolutionarily and we're going in there is more public education about nuclear power yes or no nuclear power and the safety of nuclear power yet were before all of our other virtual systems giving us some you know your reaction to go in that way and selecting nuclear energy is the thing for you to take it by and to take your attention to and i thank you very much for such a very well led life that continues and i thank you very much for all your efforts in helping to make a better world y ninety nine percent of the problems what about that other one percent well that's  can we talk some more on the substance i somehow they got mixed up on the time we got that mixed up here so it's very good to meet with you again we talked again ten years ago there's been a lot yeah you're retired now from the field are you places that you can call them yeah and i think that generally the attitude toward nuclear energy that is held by the vast majority of the american intellectual probably serious thinkers because issue is a major one and it's not benefiting the overall director of society to have it not represented can you think of any other institution that people would be well able to be aware of that might tical parties and so it can get very nasty do you think there's been a concerted effort by people in general to to build upon a notion of atomic energy as a terrible thing that it's a dangerous thing and it should be absolutely not given any place on the table of people's thinking because it gives political advantage to people who are interested in developing some other aspect of the accurate position for a thinking person it seems to me on the planet now rather than the need your projection of seeing it in negative terms which is maybe generated by people who have an interest economically against it it goes to something else all that economic power thing that we need a new economic understanding of how we're going to form capital and lead to technology benefit everybody which has got their venue to look about nuclear power you shouldn't nomics the people who are making money and living in a pan doused by supporting one type of energy are against the other ones and they fight like people fight in a war nations fight in a war because they're going to benefit by being against the other and that kind of thing we ought to give way to seeing there's there's much to be said for all kinds of people who have been general understanding that we live in a time of qualitative transformation that it's a very pregnant time that we live in and that we all ought to be able to see the good in the other people that are on the planet with us and including in that the people of the tomic energy that is able to be have a very positive effect in benefiting the human society as well as others in a political position or economic least advantaged people of the world that is too much part of the current situation of the political system we need to have a move in that direction too and there's like you know how far do you come thank you very much very hard we'll be in touch and thank you very very much indeed ok