popcorn this is actually our three hundred and fifty first show and boy are we tired and i'm there your moderator tonight bob brown and with me are janet stern and marilyn campbell and we are missing carol well but she'll be back for an actual we're going to do some unusual things tonight well not terribly unusual for us i guess we're going to discuss fellows and it was a pretty pretty horrible thing and interestingly they didn't they didn't expect to live more than about four months i guess there was a rotation in sunder commandos and this particular man that we follow and i mean follow and we can get into that the camera the camera work this particular man this thinks that among the dead in one particular transport is someone who is his son they don't going to  much more than that there's a little bit of a question about it and he wants to give this young boy a barrell now which is very ironic since everybody else is being burned he wants this point have a burial and it's really a film that follows him in his attempts to find a rabbi who will give this boy a proper burial while also being part of a rebellion among the sonderkommando as that is based in history so this is a very grim very naturalistic  setting it's hard to watch and i think i'll leave it there ok i didn't see this film so i'm the perfect hero luckier tonight because i have a lot of questions about it i've read all fourteen pages of the i m d b account that nemesis quoted as this is the most extensive directorial commentary that i know you can find now and video just went on his biography and then it had quotes and then when i am when i'm one i mean he is a lot to say about this and very much so because he's taken great pains to make this very particular and specific and also having a feel of sort of chaos among the rationality marilyn's what was your impression of saying this i have a feeling that i would be so not obvious after about five minutes i was  you follow him very closely and a lot of the background is out of focus and i think that was i haven't read this but i think that that had the effect of making the horror this a little less horrible because they were out of focus you just get this feeling of chaos and milling by us and things going on in smoke but you don't get lots of close ups thing and i think i did read one interview with him where he said that was purposeful so i didn't he wanted you to have this guy's point of view who is very in fact confused and upset and mr rather than  seeing the whole picture in clear is what's what and homer of you might look like he doesn't want an overview you want to really close up to his experience so yeah i did have a bit of a head and i think that that's but that is you have to say to yourself do we really need another holocaust film and i think very bad is what made this particular film unique because there have been other films which is very subject there was a film made by kimberl but because this man survivors in fact fell face and goes back to budapest where he feels considerably still in danger and you know every seventy ism is not there and then it follows shocking the ash into the lakes and i've never seen anything like that before and i didn't don't want to see it again and sorrowful but i thought that the idea of the following his point of view with the camera and as you said read that the director say that fifty percent of the film is sound and when they were scoring the sound as it were they had to load into lots of different elements not only voices and the kinds of wax and things heard but they got to a point where it was so overloaded they have to pull it back so you had some sense of articulate it was just a little too much and there were eight different languages yabbies and they had to get all the languages is probably not his son he's probably having some sort of delusion go so he's delusional and and is trying to do his totally agree with the way of getting the body buried in five year rabbi with  daughter and there's another thing that i think is a continuation of what your saying about the one not very realistic thing yes you could say it was absolutely critical for him to have a purpose for anyone to have a purpose here in his reality in a place like that but he seems sort of lost touch with reality where he was where the situation was i think it was for many people is probably important to have some kind of your work of civility civility and you know in this hell in this absolute hell here was a rite of passage that that sort of tied him back to to the light as he knew it but victims needs to be buried properly well i think and i mean it's not it's ironic but it's not unconnected probably with that whole atmosphere of dialogue or is this a spoiler she said making professional after all right which is the sort of determination and anguish and exhaustion and now what's the word i want almost psychopathic saw him you know he had that look about him was just going to go on and marilyn's right why did they want keep calling him in this rebellion when he just didn't have the look of someone who's going to do a very good job of it and that we know he didn't at one point write great expect the sort of a burden all i have to go by myself and i and it was an afternoon it was yesterday and i sat there for the first maybe twenty minutes thinking why am i here this is painful yeah i want to leave but i stuck with it and  becomes compelling yeah it's also very tense yeah very tense and it dramatically it really works and i would say i do like it and i did have resonances the next but but i don't i think that's right what do you mean by like you know it's not there it was as such a good film well may yeah very much but our guide supposed to always there was no color which the director wanted there was no you know he didn't want anything that would and he's comparing the two jobs one is for boeing and the other is for him but he somehow thinks that the hard work is rewarded in hollywood and the hype and that's the biggest role of all that's what stephen holden said and i thought i was kind of an interesting thing because it there had to be some point to the story was that he was obviously deluding himself that this was a even though he was fuck you know confronting all of these four eyeballs everywhere he but to our audience given you're interested in getting this film you know these as marilyn said this this replications of hollywood films they tackle the dance movie the sailor movie  think the great thing about it is that it's reviewers make it seem like a silly sort of slapstick comedy and actually there's a lot of poignancy by a lot of alan bennett's feeling of responsibility for this you have to put her oh me compares she was the mother wants to live with him yes and he doesn't allow it so there is a sort of guilt phase there's a there's a lot more subtlety here than that necessarily you know what we found very interesting about it what the part i really liked about it she moves with her fit ugly all of them onto this street and kind of goes from neighbor to neighbor or at least in front of their property but then you uber does have a real community and they know