had to call to order the regular meeting of the lakewood city council lakewood colorado june twenty fifth twenty eighteen seven pm in council chambers to order will the clerk please call the roll all johnson hair and sen well i'd like to welcome everybody to council chambers thank you for coming out tonight and taking part in your local government i'd also like to welcome those who may be tuning in on line or viewing us at a later date i don't ask that if you did have a cell phone please turn that off or put it on silent and join me in the pledge of allegiance on main standing for a moment of silent prayer thank you thank you please be sea so we always have special guests throughout throughout the meetings our residents are special guests but we have some guests from far and beyond and i want to give a welcome to the city council members from sterling heights michigan who are here with us today if you want to raise your hand welcome thanks for coming to lakewood colorado and they going to spend some time together as the week goes on and we have some friends from the further away they should say down under we laughed at that but maybe nobody knows i'm talking about but you notice a couple different flags here and we are celebrating the fortieth anniversary of our sister city relationship with this other than sutherland shire australia and we have a wonderful delegation we're going to a very nice presentation here in a moment council just had the great opportunity to have dinner and some nice conversation and really understand a lot about our sister city and realize that truly they are in that we face a lot of the same issues and in problems and celebrate many of the same things so it's a great a great evening and i hope you'll enjoy this the next couple minutes husband ross come on down we have general manager of silent shire scott phillips and we have amy lynn sell executive public relations we also have many of our sister cities committee and a former graduate of the program who just went back to australia to celebrate his fiftieth fiftieth birthday and stayed with the same family so if our committee members are here please s and golden and buffalo bills graves so they've gotten to see a lot of what we think is pretty amazing in our community the city lakewood in lakewood sister cities program are celebrating forty years of collaboration we've had hundreds of high school students participate in the exchange program over the years lakewood is part of the global network with sister cities and has relationships with sutherland shire australia stodge germany chester england imports mouth ngo and the focus of the international sister cities sister cities program started through the white eisenhower initiative in one thousand nine hundred fifty six to create more community led global relationships so that people of different cultures can appreciate their differences and build relationships and i think that's even more meaningful today as it has ever been and counselor johnson touched on that in our in our dinner talking about how important that is so a few facts about the shire compass is a total land area of approximately three hundred seventy square kilometers which is one hundred forty two square miles an hour within the sutherland shire was the original landing place of captain james cook on the twenty ninth of april seven hundred seventy making the shyer the birthplace of our their modern nation quinoa is blessed with sydney's longest stretch of sand is and is the only beach in sydney accessible by train the shire is home to royal national park established in eight seventy nine it's a stray is first national park in the world's second oldest national park after yellowstone approximately two hundred twenty thousand people live in the shire making the shire council the second largest council in terms of population here's a good one because we love our broncos here the sharkey is winning the twenty sixteen n r l grand final was better than christmas they also see as approximately one point one million visitors each year particularly in the peak summer season so a lot of wonderful things a lot of similarities and we have some gifts that we want to exchange but before that if mayor councilor if you'd like to say a few words please i'm delighted to be here with you to not to celebrate the forty year anniversary of something shy says the city relationship with like wood city indeed it's a privilege to lead still a guy from southern shop and i bring with me warm wishes from the southern shy community and community rich in history and culture that covers an area of around three hundred seventy square kilometers it's time to for national parks including the world's second oldest national park second only to yellowstone national park we enjoy a great quality of life in the southern shop with area framed by ocean beautiful beaches water wise and bush lanes with lanes b deep river valleys and gorgeous covered in wichita was where he was we are in an urban area that is promote leave residential southern shi'a is a home to a small that is significant commercial and indulge industrial presence juden exchange traveled to lakewood since then hundreds of southern shaw students in lakewood city students have gained valuable life experiences through participating in student exchange programs exploring every think each city has to offer making lasting memories lifelong connections and valued relationships these exchange programs have provided opportunities to participate in activities unlike all national and international l enriching the lives of all those involved over the forty years many councillors stopped and volunteers have contributed to the cultural understanding between the two cities and we've been very impressed with your young ambassadors  a great understanding to each other's culture through people to people contact a lot again to express my thanks to me paul and lycra city councils on behalf of all the members of the delegation for the very warm welcome and the wonderful cinc hospitality which has been extended to us and i very much look forward observing your council meeting this evening and enjoy many more years of strong relations between sutherland shire and lakewood city i want to now offer a gift to like with city council to ma so while you're here we also have a beach so we too have some nice things i think for you and before we do we have a special guest representative chris kennedy is here to give you a couple things on behalf of the state of colorado representative pleasure and well i want to thank you guys for coming in visiting us here i have to admit that i being at the state level don't know quite as much about the sister cities program as as many of the members of our council do here but i have knocked on many a door right around sutherland shire park and i've often wondered what was the root of that name so now i finally know i was really pleased when the mayor reached out to me a couple weeks ago to ask if i can help get some flags that are flown over the state capital for  delegation here and it is my pleasure to present to our friends an american flag and a colorado flag that last week were flown over the color of state capitol you know that there are a number of times in our country where where things become contentious and i'm not just talking about this particular political moment there are a number of times where we where we grow frustrated with each other and we start to wonder if we're actually capable of solving big problems anymore and it's fortunately for me when i look at the state and city level it's so refreshing that we do have disagreements and most of the time we hashed them out with with civility and what i see though all the time is people reaching out and listening to each other and understanding perspectives from from another angle and that's one of the things that's so great to see about the sister cities program is if we think that we have all the answers that is the biggest mistake we can make if we ever stop listening that is the biggest mistake we can make and so for us to reach out to other cities with different experiences and learn from the experiences of our friends and just build those bonds i think that is one of the best things we can be doing now and at any point in time as we work to govern and and lead and do what we can for the people of our city in our state so mayor paul thank you for including me in the ceremony it's been my pleasure to be here and let's see how do we want to go about this presentation here so here is our american flag for you that was flown over the capitol last week and i believe this colorado flag they're all folded up with different styles of course and we have some certificates to go along with and it will give you so  and we still continue to bear gifts so we did the same and we have a lakewood colorado flag for you think that we flew here at the city lakewood and then mayor look at they just keep coming made from aspen wood from here in colorado that celebrates our fortieth fortieth anniversary together so we want to present that to you in your city council in your community as well as we have these four boxes and we have a box of all right well that was really really cool and again thank you for all those in the audience this was a first we haven't done or hosted a delegation in many years since i've been on council or as mayor so this was really really nice and did you want to weigh in your lights on please help me i would just like to say thank you first of all welcome to our friends from australia and i would like to have you if you would please take one message back to your citizens in australia and that message of thank you thank you for being an ally of the united states during our many conflicts in the world uses your soldiers stood shoulder to shoulder with ours during the time that my family and many of the others here family stormed the beaches of norma slog through the jungles of vietnam and fight on the miserable conditions of korea and we thank you for being an ally of the united states thank you well setser all right anybody else before we so know we're going to move in a public comment and this is the point the meeting where the public is invited to rest the city council on the items that did not appear on the agenda all comments should be directed to the city council i ask that all the tenants observe the decorum of city council chambers in refrain from applause or audible support or discord with the speaker there is a three minute limit per speaker so this little box right here will be green when your two and a half minutes when you're at two and a half minutes ago yellow and when your time is done it will go red and all politely try to wrap you up so with that we have first on the list is a alumni of the sister cities program armbruster high school graduate come on down welcome thank you very very much this is a truly monumental time that we get to have our friends most truly here with us to witness how things get done here and also to share what i've witnessed in the lunch in th the dinner was you sharing your concerns and your family stories and you can gather as people with similar backgrounds so when lakewood sister cities was founded in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight lakewood was searching for a sister city and sutherland shire popped up and we didn't want them we didn't think we had anything in common with them we're in the mountains they're on the ocean they got at the huge city denver the time was two and a half maybe three million we really didn't think that it was going to be a good fit because it didn't match up to what we thought we needed in a partner for a sister city well as forty years can attest  we are more alike than we ever would have imagined and yet different enough that we learned so much from each other and to this day i mean we've got australian kids coming over and american kids going over to live in host families and to live over there and if if any of you can come up and see this photo i'm sure that we put in a place of prominence get up close and look really good at it you could be there it is open to you lakewood sister cities as a volunteer run program and we have our four sister cities and we do not only students changes but adult trips as well you go for ten days and stay with the host family you're not in a hotel you're with a family foundation still have a lot of friends who work at the police department and i brought in from lubbock texas one of the best songwriters that you will ever ever experience his name is andy wilkinson in the end he is a former police lieutenant in the police department and we've got we're at the lakewood cultural center july twenty first i brought brochures with me if each of you the council members would like a brochure to my contact information is on there i would main reason to be here is they ask you to keep in mind the association and let your constituents know and also we ask for your support personally to to come support a really good cause and here are really good concert and i just would welcome you in on this or something because when councils help immediately thank you thank you sir appreciate it mr george i'm here tonight regarding the bristlecone shooting range and retail center located at one two one o five west cedar drive in lakewood two and i'm here tonight to alert the city council about excessive noise pollution created by this facility i live in the beacon eighty five apartments at eighty five south union and i'm on the i live on the south side of the building which directly faces the bristle cone  the noise that is emitted from the bristlecone is the shooting range is loud pervasive relentless and unnerving and i speak for many if not all of myself basing neighbors who are affected by the noise of gunfire on a daily basis who have frankly had enough the sounds of gunfire small caliber large caliber semiautomatic and automatic is inescapable on most weekdays and even worse on the weekends one of my neighbors described the gunfire noise from the shooting range on father's day as the father's day massacre it was heavy gunfire from large caliber weapons all day long and into the evening without respite i have recordings of the city of which would like to hear them i'm here tonight just to find out what steps i need to take to get this issue on the city council agenda for discussion and to get the city of lakewood and the city manager to review the special use permit for the person shooting range to determine if they improve to determine if the shooting range has the ability to make significant increase stick improvements that will bring them into compliance with the noise ordinance requirements of the city of lakewood and to end the noise pollution created by this comment on an e mail i sent out yesterday to the mare i carp i copied everybody here except that i sent mr wible two copies i think he got karen harrison's so my apologies for that tobacco retailer licensing proposal that was advanced by the citizens for a healthier liquid and that's what i'm representing tonight as a youth advocate started back in there is a terrific up amount of information that we had to research and absorbed during this assignment so i wanted to simplify it down to one issue  yet celebrates the great patriotic heritage that we enjoy a good job we have a big bang coming up here very shortly that's a virtue vice i have a quick story about my father and that's what happens if we're not careful on ensuring that our youth are protected by licensing which ends up reducing access of tobacco products to you thank you very much that was difficult and the last thing i'd like to talk about today is a family story on that sunday at two o'clock i got a call from my father in apple worked at the time or so i worked there for eight years i worked with a lot of pairs and they were not let a garage door stop so the thing that i wanted to come and talk to you all about years i went to a meeting this morning at twenty six think it playing i announced that this was happening in our neighborhood and i got six different people giving me six different stories i don't think anybody in the city council knew this until i emailed somebody this afternoon and i'm trying to figure out how we can get agencies to talk to each other because there's some kind of communication problem that leads to player problems and problems with not people understanding what's going on so i'm here to request that you do something to help and i don't know whether to tell the colorado wildlife people that they need to be contacting you when a bear is in the area and then i'd like to see some kind of i don't know bear alert where you can put on your website to tell people if you're going out looking for milk there might be a bear so that's the three things that i'm bringing to the coun first i want to address the charitable donations of our tax dollars to special interest organizations these are my tax dollars that you are donating this idea which is both an ethical and bordering on illegal started out as fifty thousand dollars and grew to one hundred thousand dollars i contribute considerable time and money to organizations of my choice not yours you obviously trust the citizens to decide who they can contribute to as a result i will no longer contribute to or support jeffco action or any other organization than a fading off the government teat the citizens of colorado voted in taber to stop governmental waste trying to throw out the citizens wishes on taber try controlling your distended spending also on wednesday june thirteenth a homeless man was seen and photographed by neighbors and myself sleeping under a bridge at the r t d light rail tracks and ward one this is less than one hundred feet from my barrelling mantri school and the surrounding two blocks there are at least one dozen houses with children living in them i believe that the masonic building and the adjoining abandoned liquor store  independent street are more closely being monitored by the police but that just drives the homeless to another location that being behind citizen's homes there is also a video of a man scoping out of citizen's house and urinating on that person's property surveillance cameras are a wonderful thing aren't they if you still insist on building low income or section eight housing in lakewood keep it out of ward one and stead and i know at least three of you won't like it put it in ward four between west alameda and west jewel the mare was elected to serve the citizens which you're clearly not doing in favor of the special interests a few but not all of the council members are playing along believe me as another can station once said if i wanted to live in a ghetto i'd have moved into a ghetto the want to see this abuse of citizens and the low income housing halted or i want to see your resignation thank you sir appreciate it  good evening welcome good evening thank you and thank you for the opportunity i am here this have to address the rat infestation in the kendrick lake area i'd like to give you a little bit of background about myself i belong to the fifty nine club i was born in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine i'm fifty nine years old and i've lived in lakewood for fifty nine years i also have the jets nation of an r my husband and i had our home poised to be listed this week it was to be lifted at over five hundred k we can't list it our home is unsellable and i don't even live on the in certain circles for my garden skills and our manicured lawn our home is our castle i cannot continue to go outside i am scared to death i have a figure of rats and i convinced that if i see a rat in my home or in my yard i will become prosing i will not know what to do to be able to scream we have spent since this came out a significant amount of money contacting extermination companies i've had two of them out we bought items on  and we have spent in the hundreds of dollars and that's just in ten days next week and never expect one of the extermination companies won't be coming back out for a follow up ok so we know that the homeless unsellable the stench is unbearable my fear the health risk we're not getting any information none the city has provided no information you're not proactive and i think that has to and we've laid has been because myself and several others have been proactive in contacting you and then last week it got to the point where one person caitlin became the p r so i don't know i don't understand i just it's it's a crime it's criminal ok any information that we want you know to go in front of the home stand on the public sidewalk and wait for somebody to come in last friday the city like it was there and they had a bunch of these this is from the jefferson county health department and it provides some guidelines on what needs to be done and the action i had to ask for this they were not going to give everybody had to ask for a copy that's not right so there are some definite health risks we know that and i guess what's really important to me and white hits me so hard is i'm a middle compromised good evening i'm alan healed live in work for at the city council meeting on june eleventh citizen amar mentioned her concern with the fact that the assistant development director had videoed her while she was speaking at a ward three meeting in march he admitted having done this she also mentioned how another citizen speaker the day was recorded and got an email from the mayor shortly after speaking at the meeting regarding his comments at the meeting i am that other speaker regardless of whether or not the staff member or some other person passed information to the mayor regarding my comments there's no doubt that somebody did because i got this e mail shortly after about an hour after the meeting can see the happen you know i noticed the time and date stamp and then you know it really concerned me so i reached out to the ward three counselors if you watch the video from the june eleventh meeting couple weeks ago mr mayor you commented that you were concerned that some of the mars information was misinformation or improper or somehow inaccurate regarding the twenty fourth meeting i felt like she was accurate and i encourage anybody to watch the tape if you if you want to confirm what i'm saying i'm not making this up the timestamp doesn't lie the tape doesn't lie the points that i'm are made regarding the system developed director recording her and me and the mayor contacting us both after the meeting are factual and although this isn't developed director admitted filming is splitting hairs on who the mole was that brought the mayor into the mix doesn't change my concern about being contacted an hour after the meeting i feel it was it was an ethical for anyone to be recording ward meetings without permission of those speaking and if the mayor didn't direct the reporting as he said it was simply a recipient of information then i have to ask the question you know was it ethical for him to use it to immediately reach out i didn't feel so and i still don't feel so i was upset with the behavior and so i expressed my concerns to the ward three counselors and my  counselors and i communicated via private channel because i don't trust the city anymore to respect my privacy in communications it's a shame i have to be so concerned about my personal data but if you recall the public comments by mr park in two weeks ago on june eleventh you'll understand my private information is at risk under current city government and staff the attacks on him are and mr plotkin are what led me to speak tonight and to share my concerns and to ask what has happened to integrity at city hall where does the buck stop recently mr poe mayor paul you said the buck stops here on the diocese and as to any actions by staff that concerns the public and you gave quite a impassioned speech on that then on june eleventh you said you do not communicate directly with staff only the city manager and that's on tape so this is getting a bit confusing for me wherever the buck truly does stop i'm concerned about citizens that have been treated improperly recently when they express their perspective and bring forward the facts so here's my what i suggest is in the future please mr mayor if you want to talk with citizens it be much better to show up at the meetings than to send e mails after a fly on the wall whoever that was informs you of something i said or somebody else said him are spoke the truth mr park and spoke the truth i'm speaking the truth tonight and you know just to clarify that i was contacted as as a more mentioned it happened there's the proof you know everyone's entitled their own opinion but you know not one of us up there or down here are entitled to our own facts you know i believe most on city council and staff hold the truth in high regard and operate with integrity and i thank you all for this however from time to time someone counsel or some in sta have distorted the facts or spread misinformation in this concerns me greatly you know we can all have differing opinions so why am i speaking tonight well to validate a marist comments and also to talk a little bit about decorum mr mayor in your overview of how public comment works you ask the public to be respectful of differing opinions this is appropriate to ask and you were always very clear about it tonight i'm asking for the same please be respectful to those of us who disagree with you i may sit quietly in the audience most the time i see my time's up i'm wrapping here you know and that's just my nature but when provoked or when i'm inspired i'll get up and speak tonight consider me provoked my comments but maybe infrequent but as don henley saying i will not back down and i will not go quietly and i had i am keeping track and i will vote right thank you thank you very much have a three minute speech or even bullet point so i'm standing here talking from my heart i in the same position as len just spoke i have not lived in lakewood for fifty nine years i have lived on the contract lake smith reservoir area for about a month and a half and right after i moved in and it was very apparent to me that there were so future issues at the house next door and not wanting to be the one to stir up trouble in the neighborhood right away i didn't bring it up the neighbors as we started meeting each other but then it became very apparent pretty quickly that many other neighbors have been having this issue with the rats and the smell for a very long time so i guess the thing to stress here is the lay i thought that we maybe just happened but it has been a delay for a year and a half and not until we got channel seven news involved that anything actually start moving with the city with code and forstmann so it's a shame it had to come to that point i understand that there's a lot of different rules used to fall in the government i myself i support the federal government in contracts i know every day i have to follow protocol  rules but when does it get to a point where you just start doing what's right when you have this many neighbors in a community upset and they can enjoy their homes i can't keep my windows open i can't go outside in this is not it  called an extreme right infestation i never thought i'd be standing up talking about rats in my life to city council but it so that extreme where i first time homebuyer and i can enjoy my property so when it seems to me in my opinion that a lot of code in the police are really siding with the owner of this home who none of them are living there they've been evicted to live in the home due to health reasons or conditions but yet we're on the outside now to suffer with the rats that are taking over the neighborhood and i'm immediately next door so not only are there rats in my yard the smell so who represents us who represents the neighborhood it seems like the owners get a lot of support for being compliant for following rules but why is she not being held responsible for a huge issue that she created and if you keep the lying this it's good to just escalate even further and i don't want to see that happen i don't want to have to go the legal route i would think that we had somebody to represent us as neighbors taxpayers voters so that's why i'm here today just to again stress that i don't think this is the small issue that should have very weak extermination efforts and that could go on for months because that's not acceptable to me thank you beaming and thank you for the opportunity there that created this whole situation she was feeding them we get into garbage the dog food bag she's definitely feeding she's propagated these rats this thing didn't happen from wild rats i believe you'll find out these are what they call roof rat that they can purchase that store you come out you propagate them she had a minor car codes then told that a year ago that she had a more car tells you a little story a picture you should had more concern in my opinion and further quicker action on the whole issue and what's taken place i developed now that house there in the in the yard at three fifty or sixty and you are going to ground the roof there's probably twenty or thirty more under tree accounted there thirty of them under tree it's totally infest they did and i think you realize that i have been told that by code it's the worst case of infestation they've ever seen very obvious you've you've let this happen i mean the city and i hate to be critical of never on a city but boy this thing's grew to proportion now the treatment process has taken place is going to be perhaps two months or better to treat this so this community get to live with this until until that happens ok and we're wondering why they went they left paula who is the owner select exterminator and i've heard and i don't know this to be fact but perhaps this person's been her house before there's no results that there's hundreds maybe thousands of rats in this place and at night time it's horrific and i'm hoping we get a picture for the public to see but the treatment then ok say they treat it in two months is a city prepared then what's the next step it's my understanding now you go to go to go to the owner and now you're going to have to get the feces and the urine out of that because that's where the odor and the real dangers come they're going to have to get in the next step the hope the cities prepared to do is ok they kill the rats now they get to get inside and i know it's could be costly in my pin you're going to take the walls down the ceilings down there coming out the roof fence or come in through the walls in the hole there are there th this for real health concerns in this community should should be prepared to address the flyer that has been talked about i've asked for it they told me the error of safe to breathe because it's really bad ok the fire department tested fire department talked to chief mayor's office gracious to give me the chief number called and he said no they tested for explosives and flammable such nothing to do with what the rats i asked for more copies of health department to my knowledge has not been on site they may have been in without mine case and i think if you follow up with some of the more like the researchers in the university of your local you know you'll find that there is a real potential for a real problem in this neighborhood once they get their food ate eaten up now they're coming out through the neighborhoods with i think something needs to be done immediately to take a mother thank you thank you thank you cindy to shepherd good evening welcome i am one of the homeowners that live near this rat house i'm about six or seven houses north of the house these rats have migrated they have escaped the house and they are on my property they got in my house last year i have a dog that thinks he's a cat he has caught four of these rats he caught one last friday night in my neighbor's yard he borrowed under the fence and he caught one it was midnight i had to call the cops to help me get my dog because i didn't want to get shot from my neighbor i had to take him to the vet because he caught one of these rats i talked to my neighbor and my neighbor said this rat looked like it had tumors all over its face so it came from that rat house i can't keep my dogs out anymore i mean i'm going to have to take him out on a leash to go to the bathroom because i live right behind the lake and i understand there's wildlife back there i understand that but i've never had rats until i get your ago and i just found out about this problem from the apt the next door i read app i read the post that they posted and i do nothing about these rats i had no clue where these rats came from a year ago how they got in my house i've had to get a to an exterminator now so i had one for over about a year over a year i called them again i went and purchased more rat stuff to put around my house spent over one hundred dollars i'm concerned because they are migrating i walked my dog up behind the lake last night behind the house and i looked in the backyard and that's all you can see running in the yard going on to their property i mean they're on the back fence now and i saw them three houses down at a shed on this side of the fences so they are migrating they're going to where they can find food and water we need to do something now what they're doing is not stopping it and if it takes two to three months everybody in that area is going to have rats they're going to have rats and we need to do something i don't understand why they can't gas them i heard my my terminator guy said it's illegal to gas i don't that would be a quick quick way to get rid of these rats there's got to be a thousand rats in that house and it does stink i have walked my dogs by that house and every time i walk my dogs before i knew about this rat problem i got an eerie feeling i never have met the people that live there i don't know them but i always got willies when i walked by this house and now i know why and now they were all out last night and it wasn't even dark yet and he is not exaggerating about how many rats are there i didn't have my my picture to take pictures you guys need to come out come out to sixteen one thousand nine hundred lee and you take a look there on the the rough go behind the smith reservoir and look you will see them running everywhere and they're having babies there's babies now there's little ones would you like to live next door to that would any of you like to live next door to that or be in the neighborhood something has to be done and we need it done now not two or three months we can't thank you mr mountain good evening sir everybody i'm paul mountain i live at one sixty nine south least three on the other next door house to this rat infestation and i live there with my wife and my nine month old daughter and fortunately i'm here and not with my wife on her birthday taken her out to dinner like i was planning to do she's at home dealing with dead and live rats and rat feces in rat urine while everybody else has gone about their life and given out flags and collecting pictures and we've been complaining about this issue for twelve months now to code enforcement to family crimes to everybody we can reach out to in the city and so far there have been no tangible results whatsoever as far as i can tell there's a piece of paper taped to the front door and that's only difference i can see because the rat infestation and the stench is worse than it's ever been and every night i get home from work i go on the back yard and i pick up dead rats and i pick up rat feces instead of spending time with my nine month old daughter and everybody else in the neighborhood is dealing with the same thing and for some reason there's been no action no tangible action on the city's part other than a bunch of fake communication with no no definitive timelines no one is willing to step up and say we're going to handle this now no one's willing to tell it to tell us if it's safe or not no one wants to put themselves on the line to protect the community they just want to say oh we're working as fast as we can hopefully it'll be resolved well you know several months in city government time might be quick but it's not quick when you have to live next to this extremely dangerous you know and miserable health issue and people are acting like ah this is  process it's it's completely unacceptable it's completely unacceptable for the neighborhood and everybody involved and meanwhile no one is getting definitive answers we're getting a run around from the city i demand some answers i demand this be fixed immediately not in three months right away there's no reason this can't be fixed tomorrow there's not one single good reason why the extermination process everybody has mentioned is ineffective it started last week there's just as many if not more rats there than there were last week and the smell is just as bad if not worse we can't open our windows we can't use our evaporative cooler we can't go in the yard for fear of encountering rats and dead rats and you know excrement and for some reason there's there's been no tangible action taken and  here taking time out of my life as everybody else's to tell you guys that it's time for action right now and and we're tired of vague answers and we want action immediately th good evening i hope i'm the last one that's going to have to talk about the rat issue sorry we're are we're sharing our dirty laundry with you all m perhaps you have some ideas it sounds like the country you come from in the nature of where you live maybe you have had this issue our city has not apparently and is also i feel like not able to really respond to this this is a serious public health and safety issue i complained about it to jefferson county health and was called back today received the information that has been shared and also looked up a couple of laws i don't know which laws being employed here but there was a legislative declaration issued i hope there's a city attorney here the statute is thirty five seven one zero one legislative declaration where as many large areas of this state certain destructive rodent pests etc including rats have become so numerous and such a grave an immediate menace to the agricultural horticultural livestock industries of the state that large numbers of the inhabitants engage in such industries and localities so infested are in great and imminent danger of being impoverished it goes on to say the situation is so serious and the emergency so urgent that public necessity demands prompt a fish and and summary action be taken under the police power of the state to control suppress and eradicate the rodents in the areas infested by them so my question is we have a law that clearly gives the council a declaration of action and then it goes on to say thirty seven seven two zero three the release of destructive rodent pests and section two says for purposes of this section destructive rodent pass include rats which are of concerns to human health i think this council is being given an opportunity to work with jefferson county health department split the cost of what is now a hazardous waste re mediation as this gentleman and as the rest of our neighbors have talked about i am not immediately concerned here as a matter of fact my mother had a heart attack today i have better things to be doing today too but the point is he's waterways that come from that reservoir lead directly into other neighborhoods but we have been way behind the eight ball on th people and i think it's time to do a pro active cleaning up the owners on this property are five you are not going to get five people to sell that property it needs to be condemned and that is going to be an agricultural department of agricultural i think process but please be proactive please get the city attorneys involved here this is not rocket science it's requiring a vacuum i said just one big vacuum because you have rodent carcasses now to deal with unacceptable and i hope that that the budget will be set aside to deal with this we are going to have an issue here and this is what our government is for you do for us what we can't do for ourselves and lastly my question is  how did they know that there wasn't a dead body in that house it stinks so bad please a year and a half there are five owners one of them could still be in there i don't know this is the concern that this community is dealing with we're angry because we haven't gotten information so i hope that that's going to be something you all can address quickly and again thank you for your countrymen service the service they gave and continue to give thank you thank you that's everybody who signed up so if you like you may didn't get a chance to sign up and wish to speak please come  good evening could you give us your name and address for the record you know gryphus and i'm one zero zero three five west iowa avenue in lakewood ward five and actually this i wanted i had i'm honestly where karen and dana based that seems a little conspicuous but i'm also an insurance agent and i have concerns do you does lakewood have wiring and none of this stuff would be generally covered under an insurance policy for the people in that house or any of the surrounding houses if this spreads so it's just a concern could that could we potentially have a fire issue and i hope that you guys are be able to help us with any and all of this stuff so those were just my concerns thank you  i'm a different to that's why we got you we got your address so and i do not live in the neighborhood but i am another supporter of my lakewood neighbors and also the city in lakewood i'm coming to speak as a professional appraiser real estate appraiser and i have to say that there's obviously detrimental impacts for the economic and financial reasons as well if these people want to get a loan i have to have an appraisal appraiser come out and we have to report that there's infestation in the neighborhood excuse me my allergies and the houses and the banks will not loan on those properties until the end fest ation is abated and so if the city lakewood or whoever is delaying the process i'm so sorry to tell her she's are coming up if there's water too think then they're going to have issues with getting their loans in the sales as the other lady had expressed they're going to have difficulty selling the property if anybody comes in and smells the odors if they see the routes that obviously people are going to want to buy the homes and then that's going to have a detrimental impact to the neighborhood as a whole and then it might even get a stigma that it's an area known for rats and it's just going to be promulgated and be a bigger and bigger issue so i have great sympathy for all of you and i'm so sorry that you're going through that but even as the whole city i would hate to see that move outside of the neighborhood and just even have in the city of lakewood known for not helping their their residents with such a big issue so i just wanted to mention that on the economic side as a professional so thank you sorry for the choking thank you bernie or come to the dome fest all people go by come to the community of family event thank you thank you bernie appreciate it anybody else all right i'm going to close public comment and go through just a couple quick things shooting range we have that and if we can get your information which we have we can have our stuff put in a service request and take a look at that and they'll get back to  you yes there has been a bear roaming that area that was actually on next story i think two weeks two or three weeks ago and believe it or not it was on reddit the sporting somebody caught it this morning on footage as well and that is  department of wildlife but we can certainly try to get a better understanding of the communication routes between current apartment wildlife in the city in lakewood let's see here so there's a there's a lot and and first and foremost you are good wine is out of town and i know that she's been engaged with some of the neighbors and she's traveling kelso her son is also engaged and fortunately her husband's in the hospital and that's where she is and that's absolutely i think where she needs to be tonight so to the folks here i'm very sorry that you're dealing with this and i know everybody up here is and takes it seriously in fact our folks from the shire had this experience last year for someone who's been on council for twelve years we've had one other instance in this whole history that i've been on board where we've dealt with something but not even close to this bad we had subdued animals we were forced to sleep through the courts to do a cleanup and we're dealing with mental illness we're dealing with hipaa we're dealing with a lot of different things that does not bring closure or any better answers to you and i'm sorry but we certainly have a full team from our city manager to r p o to our city attorney to our police chief to code enforcement everybody is taking a look trying to figure out working with the health department in the county to get you better answers i saw something from caitlin today that she's going to try and do an update every day there is an urgency by the city to take care of it and i think upon reflection of what's happened it's a good opportunity for us to look at our process and to see what if anything we could have done better from the start and that history you know some of us are a little bit more inclined or know a little bit more than others on council but we certainly sympathize we want to see you have resolution and want to make sure that you and your neighbors are of the highest priority and miss hodson i don't know if you'd like to add anything to that or mr cox and for just for reference mr cox is our city attorney yes good evening thank you mr council members to create history and in brief it has been over a year since the first complaint was made about this property as i understand it the complaint to code enforcement at the time was about odor a strong odor emanating from the from the the structure of the building code enforcement did respond at that time did in contact or make contact with the owners of the occupants of the of the residence and at that time code enforcement officers were not able to the some of the visits but there are multiple visits starting with that first one all having to do with the odor and odor as you can imagine in this context is a difficult thing to deal with because it's subjective it is some people have a higher tolerance than others some people can can tolerate certain types of smells and not others code enforcement as you might imagine has some pretty extensive experience identifying and and dealing with those orders but there's no objective way to measure whether this is an excessive odor or not and it only tended to be obvious when the windows or doors of the property were opened if they were closed up the odor was that much more difficult to detect west metro fire did also go out and do some testing at one point in time but the thing i want to make sure i get across is that during that period up until very recently the code enforcement case had to do with odor and they made repeated efforts to try to deal with that but were not able to get consent of the owners and the question was posed what if there's a dead body or something inside well there has to be some adequate reason for the code enforcement folks to get a warrant it can't be based  on suspicion or conjecture so they did use what tools they had tried to get that order dealt with the most recent complaint came about ten days ago if on friday the fifteenth i understand it cohen foresman was back out this and this on this occasion the rats were subject of the complaint and my understanding is that that date friday the fifteenth was the first date that anyone from code foresman encountered rats in any numbers there may have been  an individual sighting prior to that the friday the fifteenth of june was the first time code for enforcement reported having seen multiple rats on the property there were news media articles stories on v that weekend i first learned of this matter when councillor roy ball brought a recording of one of the news articles and one of the news pieces from the from channel seven about this learned about it on monday morning the eighteenth monday afternoon that same day we had i thrive or six departments together meeting to discuss our options here in west metro attended that as well so we had city attorney's office the police department including cohen foresm and animal control we had a number of other people present for that meeting to talk about what we could do the police chief was there themself and at that time contact was renewed with the owners of the property  the property the building the division of the public works department was was brought in to deal with the habitability of the structure and they determined it was not habit and the notice that we heard referenced tonight posted on the door was that it was not safe for habitation and the health department has distributed information for what that's worth saying that they're not concerned about health implications except for occupants of the premises those folks are now out of the out of the premises but they did agree to retain an exterminator it is the practice of the cohen foresman division to seek self help through the owners and people in control of the property whenever possible the city has the ability to summarily abate violations under certain circumstances but the first line advance is to get the owner to take care of it so the taxpayer money is not being spent on multiple properties  trying to abate situations due process is always a consideration as well and we've heard reference to the rights of the various parties but there has to be an opportunity for folks to respond to complaints and try to deal with them the extermination process has been ongoing and the city is very much involved on many levels and we're going to stay in contact and do what is possible to resolve the situation as quickly as we can so at what point does the city take over control of abatement and i think that's some of the main first ration now is you know the timeline help us understand the timeline right well you know again to use a typical cohen foresman case and this may not be that  first for sure but in a typical code enforcement case that's the first attempt is to get people to take care of it sometimes you get folks will say i've got it can i have thirty days to abate whatever the problem is and they get that time and then they don't resolve it and they ask for an extension and you know it's always better to get cooperation and so that's the first attempt at some point and it's not a defined point on there's nothing in our code that says if you don't do this by x date you will trigger the need for summary abatement by the city it is a health issue it is a public safety issue i'm aware of one situation in my time here where abatement by the city became necessary because we kind of got the runaround from the owners with multiple extensions requested a nothing being done this is a situation where there's certainly more sensational facts involved and some real concern legitimately on the part of the neighbors and so we'll take that into account as the extermination process goes on if it's not working obviously something else will have to be done but to say it's going to happen and the rats will be gone by x date is it is too difficult at this point time so certainly there's due process so when does that expire and then that would allow the city to potentially if abatement isn't taking place the city could step in and i i say that because i think we understand and we've seen and we're learning about kind of an area that's pretty gray in a lot of things and maybe they'll have to be some changes after with our code or with some of our ordinances what does depressed due process stop because i get a sense from this council as well that there's a willingness to move forward with some sort of abatement if it's legal and just because of the situation that this has created and the size of it and there's no doubt that's that's the concern here having rats on one's property as somebody said these can be purchased as pets and some places so that makes it complicated because we don't have the right to  simply go in and exterminate individual creatures that's the it's the number and extent of the problem that is the factor here we you do see cooperation when cooperation isn't working that's and when public safety or health is is at risk that's essentially when the right to due process is set aside in favor of taking action that protects everybody there is a question as to what the full extent of abatement might look like is it just about the rats is it what the rats leave behind is the carcasses that are left in the house is it the damaged walls and so on so it's that will be addressed and i can only s questions one of them one of them bein did we take custody of the property in reeky if i read this correctly or was there no rekeying of the property according to cohen for not is there going to be maybe steps to correct that as i said the building division did already go in to determine the property was not habitable at the time that they entered and so there will be of course follow up inspections as the work continues to see what is what needs to be done to make it habitable and how that would be done and by whom than test again then one more quick question i think you know the fear of the unknown and that is what really scares a lot of people i understand that we are backed up and we have to follow the law point by point by point is there any and we do also have to give them you know an opportunity to make this right but when when is enough and the city moves and what is what is the threshold for that that's similar to the question the mayor asked and it is difficult to answer we are getting cooperation and there is an effort underway to deal with the infestation when when it becomes apparent that that's not working that may be the time when whatever assurances that the owners can give aren't enough and the city will have to take action i think because of the extent of the issue now and certainly the publicity given to it so again we learned about it they'll be a shorter time frame for the city to get directly involved but we're overseeing what's happening now and are calling for some people know what to look for although this is an unusual situation they they know what they're looking for and they're going to continue to do that and will will do what's necessary to resolve this issue it's just you know we're not we're not dealing with controllable objects and they're they're going to be around until we find another way to get them off the property and gone great thank you  from what i understand of this issue and it's new to me as well as mr cox has indicated it's only been very very recently i know that the city from what i've been told from your summary it sounds like you've done as has done a lot of getting all the department heads together working with the neighborhood trying our best i think maybe this is better for general business i don't know but i think that the problem we run into where the rub is is trying to balance that property right what to deal with with the owner we hear all the time about property rights and people saying the government is doing too much and in this case though it sounds to me like i discussion on this i don't know if this public comment maybe we should move this to general business but i think at this point it sounds like from what we've heard from the firsthand accounts from the neighbors sounds like we're at that point where we can move beyond the abatement that the homeowners trying so i think that deserves more and it sounds like the city is trying to do everything in lockstep with the laws allowing going through jeffco in the health department and doing all of the right things but i think at this point we can say work as the body will take the responsibility for it and you don't we'll take it off you put it on us and we're done and so we need to do whatever it takes to go in there and take care of it the problem would be what happens you know three months from now if some of these rats keep get out then we deal with a bigger issue let's spend the money now so and that might be something i don't and again i i think staff has responded well and i think staff it sounds like especially from our city attorney is now looking saying hey we're following the law if you want to do something more we need some guidance while i think we should bring that up in general business and we should do something appreciate that i'm going to continue to lead the conversation because we have neighbors here who may not want to stay till general business and other folks have weighed in but i think to echo that point that i think this body is well with and that's i think you're hearing loud and clear and i think your office i mean i think everybody realizes and i don't think anybody appear would dismiss the fact that we need to follow the law protect the property rights but move to a point where there is some some resolute resolution sooner than later fifteen limited number of household pets and you know i've heard that these may have been being raised as pets and that particular piece of the code says it's unlawful to keep more than five total of five species so that's kind of a piece there of any species of household pets parisians however the total cannot exceed three of the same species how does that tie in here again i realize that we just came to know about the rats on the fifteenth  just kind of speaking more broadly how does that apply that's been asked me a few times your it's a very legitimate question and you are correct in identifying the regulated species as the as the key here there are species of pets that are recognized and are regulated in that fashion and so you can have three dogs on a property and as you indicated rats are not a regulated species there are no specific regulations in the sit in this municipal code that addressed that species and so the language about the limitation on the number would not apply to that species absent a change in the in the ordinance so in other words there's no limit and so i was going to call attention to that saying that we may they may have some area that we may need to address and the other thing is have we explored what the i know that i i watched the same account that many people did where they're feeding them some type i think it's got fiberglass or something in there and it's it's got i mean i grew up on a farm so obviously there's other mechanisms do we know what our what our bounds are if we need to go to something that's quicker and more aggressive again i gripped by grain silos or so there's many quicker ways to deal with some of these things have we explored that so we know where we stop  considered that switch may have a different then if it's just considered an infestation of wild creatures well for one thing i think well the pets angle has certainly been a factor in this story since we learned about it because there was there were reports of them being fed and driven around in cars and so on we're pretty sure based on the numbers in the condition and the the the health hazards to the rats themselves by virtue of the  carcasses that have been found on the property that were were pretty well comfortable that this is not a traditional pet situation otherwise i think i would haven't had that  heard the same thing about the method being used by the exterminator at this time it's a little unnerving to hear but we have not to my knowledge attempted to to dictate methods if the method being used is not working and there are others available will certainly be looking at that for hasty action to protect the public health and isn't it incumbent on us to move as quickly as possible to ensure the public health and welfare the summary abatement provisions that are in our code are there for that reason we've had the health department telling us they were they were not concerned except for the occupants of the home but yes that's what the summary abatement provisions are for and and what i hear is that there's some sen source of that odor a year and a half ago or a year ago i mean granted we didn't know the source then but right there was suspicion of the time about a sewer problem that maybe the sewer was not properly connected and that was the source of the odor according to west metro they've tested for that and found it as i understand no indication that the sewer was not properly connected but that was the first suspicion and again code enforcement encounter different conditions on different days as they were there so i don't want to get into follow up and watch sort of being caught when it's we know what it is now and i guess we shouldn't have been in media late to take care of the situation calls for johnson thank you well i think like everybody else sun city council i just learned about this about a week and a half ago that was the first i'd heard in fairness i did spend about thirty minutes today talking with one of the neighbors and that's when i learned that the city had been notified a year ago and clearly we've got a problem with her process here we do need to address that this to be honest with you this isn't acceptable and i'd like to get a copy please if i could if the fire that the jefferson county health department gave  i'm concerned about the rats migrating that that's a big deal also this afternoon i was told that the neighbors were told that and i think somebody alluded to it that air quality had been checked by wes metro and when the neighborhood went to west metro to get a copy of that they were informed that west metro could only check for flammable s but somehow the neighborhood was told that they were cleared by west metro as far as health risks breathing in this this air a couple things you've alluded to many carcasses and i wondered has anybody done any autopsies on these rats to see what they're dying from why if they are running out of food and they can get out of the house and they're all over the place why aren't they running to other places where they the reason why i'm concerned about this is because the concern over the air that people are breathing and if we've got that much rat feces and hunter virus can happen with contaminated rodent dust so we could clearly have a huge issue here health wise and i agree with everybody else up here this is urgent and it's eme t there are many people who are risk when i spoke with the neighbor today she has an eight month old child she can't take the child out in the backyard and you know the foundation of the way that i try to look at my job is to do and to others and clearly if any of us live next to this house i think the things may have happened a little sooner than what they are now  i'm really pretty appalled that this is taken a year to be honest with you we've got a  problem i don't need to reiterate what everybody said about the urgency and we need to get this taken care of but what i would like to do one of the major concerns that i have is the fact that we were looking we were smelling we were we were dressing that addressing that addressing that then i heard that we saw one rat and then all of a sudden two weeks later and i saw i saw that video too and it was appalling that they were crawling out of gutters and crawling on the roofs in crawling in other people's places we had too long of an area in there between people work saying there was one rat and we had what we had there on june fifteenth so if nothing else gets done we need to look at at how in the heck that this even that this was allowed to happen i mean if we have potent force meant that just goes out you continues to look at one thing over and over without looking at a bigger picture we're taking something upon themselves then i think we need to change some things and have some thank you mayor thank you for allowing this to go on into a full discussion instead of carrying it over i think that was the right thing to do i reiterate reiterate with everybody else a set up here i don't think we should spend a lot of time right now doing sort of a forensic of what what happened over the last year and a half although i do want that to happen and i will tell you i want to full understanding at some point down the road how this was allowed to happen that's not the issue right now though the issue right now  got a bunch of people sitting here that are at risk i think at risk for their health and something needs to be done now we can sit here and attack that the root of the problem i know that's what we're trying to do here and i'm looking at it what about another possibility i don't know if this is something you folks would be interested in but i would be concerned about these folks standing there and the neighborhood and subjecting themselves to this to this hazard and i don't know how you feel about it about you know  if voluntary evacuation whether you know if you feel like you want to get out of there with your family until this matter is resolved because i mean i think you've heard tonight we don't know how long it's going to take i mean i haven't heard an answer is going to be a day a week a month i don't know  so i'm wondering if we need to take a look at help on these folks if they want to voluntarily relocate there's also ensure a matter of insurance you know the homeowner on this should have some insurance coverage and is there a way that if the city is having to help these folks financially that we can have that that claim sort of sort of speak signed over to us for free you know recovery back against insurance proceeds look at all the all the possibilities here but i'm concerned about these these nice folks me and subjected to what i see as a hazardous situation and and i think if they need to could get out of dodge for a while and protect eradication of their properties as well because they're also being infested here so i think we need to look at those things as well we're talking about this source and i understand that but that doesn't solve their problems so i'm wondering if that's something we could talk about now or very so what i would suggest is i think that there's a clear direction from council for expediting a resolution to the the issue and to take into account any and all means possible to help bring relief to the residents in the neighbors will get a group together tomorrow morning in the us discuss the options it's really kind of thank you thank you all for coming out and hopefully we'll know yeah you're free to go you're very kind and and any pointers you might have or feel free but thank you  reconvene the lakewood city council meeting of june twenty fifth twenty eighteen at nine o eight pm we are all back no changes to the attendance and we will now ask the clerk to please read the consent to a consent agenda the consent agenda consists of item six through eight item six ordinance zero two thousand eight hundred twelve adding a new chapter two point five five to the lakewood municipal code establishing the  budget not at board and appointing the members there to and abolishing the ad hoc budget not a committee created by resolution two thousand and seventeen dash forty seven item seven ordinance zero two thousand eight hundred thirteen designating the property located at thirteen ten thirteen twenty and thirteen twenty five everett court lakewood colorado county of jefferson state of colorado has a local historic site item eight accepting the minutes of the advisory commission for an inclusive executive committee meetings of january third in february seventh their full commission meetings of january seventeenth and february twenty first two thousand and eighteen and the minutes of the lakewood planning commission of march twenty first two thousand and eighteen thank you and just to mention the consent agenda is used to expedite council action there is no public comment on first reading ordinances there would have been public comment on any resolution but there are non first reading ordinances just to set the date for the public hearing and there has been one request by a few different council members to address item six and ask if it could be postponed until  looks like it be january twenty third regular meeting to discuss some of the day it's july twenty third my apologies to discuss potential language for a chairman as well as different da for taking office because there was some there was some thought by counsel that would be expressed or there'd be folks coming off sooner than later and so that request was made and  have to do that in a moment i'm going to open the public hearing i'm not going to if there isn't one so i'm  that asking our legal counsel or is there a better way we're just trying to get a little more time to work out some details right the discussion that we had here was about taking it off the agenda here at first reading so that if there are any changes they will be made at second reading that would be dealt with upfront and so the request i heard was could we postpone it not to a date certain and allow that to be worked out and brought back after proper notice is given that the requests that you had cancer be and i'm ok with that i don't really care we just need a little time to work out some details apparently and i just want to make sure that it doesn't affect our ultimate procedure legality right i think if they're going to be discussion of changes it would be best to pull it from the agenda at here at first reading before we schedule public hearing can be dealt with and then it can be rescheduled with proper notice given it so before we move forward would you want to dress  i was considering moving to break it out for a further discussion there are some other things that other questions i have about the proposal  and it's origin that sort of thing there was a mention of an order to satisfy the terms of the charter and i wrote a lot of when they can figure out what that might refer to perhaps we should have a study addressed in a public meeting between councillors and our manager councillors and staff and councillors and councillors between now and the next meeting i think we need to if we want to have a longer look at this weekend break it out for discussion tonight or we can discuss it in the future without having first reading looming over us because once it's and first reading form  then the public reads it and they come expecting us to hear the saying in the same wording so i would like i would like to handle it more expeditiously but i i think we need to be upfront and transparent with with all these discussions i would certainly agree i think the satisfaction of the charter language comes from the moving to a council ad hoc committee right the formation of the ad hoc comm very i understand that but i don't see how that applies to this since there is no time limit on any ad hoc maybe either by definition and webster's dictionary or in the charter ok and the other thing we were building off of is there was already consent to move forward with with this based upon the policies and procedures but just has to do with the solidifying the dates and moving it from what was once an ordinance to a res once a resolution to an ordinance so the i mean i think there was there was our this was already hashed out during our discussions pertaining to policies and procedures it just has to do with the seating of new members and then the potential for a chairperson of the body not exactly and if we want to continue this discussion and we need to break it out i don't want to have you and i toss in this back and forth i'm just saying what else would you like to see changed sir ok among my questions about it is that we've referred to to tell terms so if these folks are each on the list that the mayor has submitted according to policies and procedures in the past and currently then there are term was for that one year and they are they have been on there for how many years so they're limited to two terms according to the ordinance that regulates the service of boards and commissions so they've already served two terms according to that this is the kind of discussion that makes me want to have a study session so that we can flesh out all these whys and wherefores as opposed to doing it tonight from the day  well at the risk of being the bad guy here i would say that i think we should just do the discussion now to get to the heart of what it is that there is the disagreement or the disconnect probably won't take that long if the mayor is saying that this  sounds like maybe this is just a disconnect that we could probably resolve so let's just see if we can discuss it now and if we can come to it if we can't then let's do something different kinds of frank's yeah that's basically what i just said to  i think that we have a situation where we had eight people on a committee which didn't seem to expire and so we had folks on for a decade or in that ballpark and so now we're saying we're going to snooping so i see if we can but about them and move on it doesn't seem like something we just need to know what the key issues are to see if we can quickly get some consensus on those would that make sense for tonight i'd like to do that so i'm going to pull out i'm six and put in a general business kelsey johnson is this related to item six ok consent agenda question yes please this is related to item seven and designating the property located there on ever court as a local historic site this is the former hospice of st john's and i would just i mean i just say a few words about this we've had we've had some folks in the past that have looked at very high density kind of issues on this what we've got here is awesome and i  really would hope that we as a council will go forward with this hospice a st john's was actually the gold standard it was formed in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven and if i think i think i'm correct it was the first hospice in the us father john brought a model from europe and brought it here prior to the hospice of st john's this colorado and nobody else had a hospice going for him the neat thing about this is that there's been miracles on this land and it really is how ground people there were dying with dignity they were rising in pain till the last minute the old model was that you didn't want people to become addicted to pain medicine which was absolutely ridiculous when hospice came into being people were given the pain medicine that they needed and what this developer wants to do with this is is great and it has i burst support that neighborhood and i hope that you'll support what they're doing here it's it's awesome fantastic ok please accept the motion for the consent agenda mayor pro tem minus item six please bear paul i move for the acceptance of the minutes of the boards and commission order all ordinances introduced on first reading to be published in the denver post with public hearing set for the date included in the ordinance all of which are included in the consent agenda items introduced into the record by the city clerk and brought we have a motion second a discussion saying none please passes news clerk please read item nine hundred nine ordinance zero two thousand eight hundred ten authorizing a permanent utilities meant to public service company of colorado for existing underground you televisa related facilities and bellows park south of west collins avenue move for the adoption of ordinance zero two thousand and eighteen dash ten second and final reading second oceans second any discussion please cast ordinance the correct sections seventeen point two point nine so ordinance zero two thousand eight hundred i shall live in revised amending article nine and section seventeen point two point nine seventeen point twelve point six and seventeen point thirteen point two of the zoning ordinance of the city of lakewood colorado relating to signs thank you with the presentation principal players even wilson is here to update us to the fantastic job like our legal counsel m previous versions of and i'd like to do that for the record police we'd love for you to do that the city council the planning commission the citizens working group and others have spent a significant amount of time working on the proposed updates with your input tonight i believe we will have a sign ordinance that is appropriate for the city of lakewood for clarification the draft date update included with your package is the same language that was reviewed by the planning commission and their recommendation is for approval also in your packet is an overview memorandum that includes a list of items that were discussed during the city council study sessions as well as a draft amendment language based on your input i will provide a brief overview presentation of the updates and then following the presentation i have additional slides with more extensive information on the items i believe the city council wishes disc to discuss this evening we can look at those slides if needed i won't spend a great deal of time on the court case gilbert v reed however i would like to remind the audience that the u s supreme court has fundamentally changed the way local municipalities can regulate signs to avoid the potential first issues with first amendment freedom of speech the city can no longer regulate signs based on sign content although the u s supreme court said you can't regulate based on content local governments can regulate time place and manner the city can still regulate the size height location and materials of signs however we cannot link those regulations i have a blank slot sign on the screen to remind us that except for certain carve outs in the law we need to disregard what's written inside the box and the city standards will ply to all types of messages before i present more specific information i hope to set the stage with a quick look at the purpose of the purpose of the standards the purpose of the city sign ordinance is to provide standards that result in a reasonable balance between the right of an individual to exercise freedom of speech through signage and the right of the public to be protected from the potential health impacts safety hazards and visual blight that result from the unrestricted display of sides the purpose is important because each signed standard can be evaluated against the purpose signs are a fickle topic because there is competition in the built environment for expression of speech and sign regulations can actually be good for small businesses there are draft revisions to articles to nine twelve and thirteen more specifically article two and procedures in appeals in the comprehensive sign plans section the section was updated to remove ambiguous language refined approval criteria and to clarify the process article nine which is the science standards was a complete rewrite in all provide more information in the following slides in article twelve nonconformi signs are nonconforming buildings this section was moved from article nine to article twelve but the language is largely the same and then an article thirteen there were updates to the definitions and we can go over those if needed of the most significant changes to the sign ordinance is the regulations for yard signs and our current our current ordinance includes separate standards for election signs construction signs ideological signs and symbols that all have content based regulations in the draft ordinance these will all be combined into one category called yard signs it seems likely that the city would prefer to continue at regulating political science as their own separate category however the us supreme court has indicated that these types of science standards would be unconstitutional please remember we could no longer look at the content of the sign to determine which standards appl after two study sessions and a public hearing the recommendations from the planning commission are reflected in the draft ordinance more specifically the planning commission recommends that yard signs will be allowed your round with a maximum signed size of six square feet and a maximum sign area property of eight hundred square feet sign area will be measured using this some of the sign faces counting only one side person and then if yard signs become broken cracked torn or faded couldn't foresman can require their removal  as i mentioned at the beginning i have follow up slides for some of these topics the council may likely wish to discuss and yard science is one of  these i'd like to finish the overview presentation and then we can review more topics in more detail if you desire to improve the effectiveness and next i'll go on to electronic message signs so to improve the effectiveness and reduce visual distraction electronic message signs will have updated standards and there will be two categories the first category is a lower resolution sign for nonresidential uses on properties with one hundred and linear hundred eighty linear feet of street for an edge and the second category has higher resolution signs for multi tenant centers with two hundred thousand square feet of building area or more the idea is that we should have a higher allowance for electronic signs for multi tenant centers where multiple businesses are advertising on one sign so in summary these are expanding the allowances for electronic message signs in addition to the two categories there will be new illumination standards that are consistent with the recommendations of the united states sign coun the new standards will allow projecting signs including canopy signs on ng signs and blade signs which are represented by the graphic above the current standards do not allow canopy signs and based on feedback from the business community these types of signs are desirable due to their attractive appearance so those were written into the draft ordinance the new standards will also allow banner pole signs which are also represented by the graphic above  will be allowed in developments containing over forty thousand square feet a building area and must be spaced twenty five feet apart typically these types of signs have graphic messages and are often advertise events and again this is something feedback we heard from the business community that these are generally desirable painted wall signs in our current ordinance we say that art is art and a sign is a sign and based on the court case that doesn't we can't use that definition anymore so the category for works of art under exempt signs is content based in the distinction between artwork and other signs is unlikely to survive a first amendment challenge so although the current distinction has served its purpose until now the new side nor its must the new sign ordinance must regulate signs or murals in a manner that is content neutral in the draft ordinance murals will be regulated as painted wall signs and require a permit as proposed the regulations have very few limitations but the permits will be issued to a limited group of individuals a quick update on process the development of the updated sign ordinances followed a process including the formation of a working group that met three times and reviewed the draft ordinance reviewed by a consulting attorney input from members of the forty west arts district west cold facts community association and the lakewood cultural center  there were two study sessions and a public hearing with the lakewood planning commission and then the city council has spent a significant amount of time with three study sessions looking at the proposed ordinance based on the last study sessions there were there are potential amendments and it's my understanding that the there are eight potential amendments that the city council may wish to adopt to improve the ordinance and i have those listed on the slide and then also on the d i pulled some information out from the overview memorandum and put it in one less to try and make it a little bit easier to read so the summary of those amendments the first one is the yard sign material standards so i believe we discussed updating the material standards to allow for a wide range of yard sign materials and to remove the requirement for sustainable recyclable materials because of the practical difficulties with those another potential amendment is the yard sign maximum height this update would allow for yard signs on fences and then the third one of the has to do with yard signs is to limit the yard sign area to an area city council would like to visit those the fourth potential amendment is for free standing signs on front to dros and the discussion was about increasing the sign height and sign area for free standing signs or properties triangles and the next one painted wall signs there was discussion about allowing painted wall signs and all zone districts currently the way it's drafted it doesn't allow painted wall signs and residential zone districts with single family homes and we talked about allowing that in all  e districts and then the last or the sorry the last two we there is the electronic message sign chart there were some ambiguity on that chart and the chart read as if electronic message signs would be allowed on residential properties with single family homes and that was never the intent so we could amend the draft to correct that and then the last one was to clarify the language on neon signs and to make sure that they are allowed on major roadways like colfax so i did go over those very quickly that does end the presentation and i'm available for questions or we could go to any particular topic and look at those in more detail comment and nobody has signed up wishing to speak i'm going to close public comment and then i'll ask for a motion and then we'll go with questions please motion i move for the adoption of borden and oh two thousand and eighteen dash eleven second and final reading of the motion the second and we'll go with i first want to start out to find out what do we think the most efficient way because if we're looking at these potential amendments some i i want to speak in support of some i want to speak opposing and i didn't know if we wanted to just take them wanted to time or if you wanted us to go top to bottom so i first wanted some direction on how to make it most efficient so why don't you start with one that you don't support ok the first one that that i have concerns about i definitely there's one i clearly don't support but there's one that i have concerns about is increasing the amount of total square footage and i guess what i'm struggling with is just trying to find that balance of making sure that people can express themselves without even if there's a time period i know that it's a sensitive topic we had people in the election that i was in  stealing signs because they felt like they just were being inundated by messaging in clutter and that so i'm just concerned about increasing more total sign ery area even during the election season and just wanted to get other counselors to weigh in on their thoughts on that one but that one's a concern maybe i'll just stop there and see if we want to talk about that one that's number three all right if we can stick with the theme of or on a parcel in terms of different signs or the total square footage of those signs on one side i was talking about the entire calculation of the signs that are on the property so so not individual signs but really just increasing that total square footage thank you would you prefer this on the screen or the list that i had in the powerpoint i'm sorry i located my own personal right so are these lights on for number three if you're not if you don't want to scuff them or three please turn your light off when we're talking limiting the number of signs one can have in total on the prioress all still have concerns about free speech rights if you're on and  candidates and there's not enough total square footage allowed for you to put all six signs on your lot then obviously you have to make a difficult choice about which of the six candidates would you least like want to have assigned for secondly there's a lower amount of difference between the assigned clutter on a seventy five hundred square foot lot presumably fifty to seventy foot frontage as opposed to an acre and a half where you might have two hundred feet of from it so a cluster cluster is based on a amount of visual material per square foot i would imagine so i have just a blank first of all i don't like the idea of saying you can only have this many square feet of total signs no matter how many candidates you want to support secondly if we do go away thank exception should be made a lot frontage frontage sure that you can you could certainly if you wanted to change the maximum number of square feet per lot based on the front edge you know have scale it up as the french goes up you could do that if you want to do that so we've heard a couple concerns on the number three and absent so if council so they don't want to do anything on number three that section would just be nonexistent if the council decided that they didn't want to  make any amendment relative to the number three and then but they adopted the ordinance it would be adopted as written which would in which would include the currently at six square feet per sign and eight hundred square feet total three signs but each side something different so you can still get those six candidates on three sides so i'm still going to push my my maximizing your screen your real estate for those i would not be opposed to i don't know that it's something that we can get to tonight but as far as the i understand you're lots are much bigger in some areas than ours and so i would be willing to come back later and do some amendment unless you have some specific language tonight about the linear foot on a frontage for a property it's otherwise it's just if first for those of us that are packed in a little tighter it just becomes where it's visually unappealing for months out of the year so the second part of that is the day it's october sixteenth to her november sixteenth so we change so just to be clear that a motion eliminate number three i'll make that a motion we eliminate three from consideration but we do not limit the total sign area in any means and thank you for that but just for clarification it does divert to something else though it is a language that already has the this was an amendment to change that so we would be i'm those concepts in any way so mr cox for that so the language on number three would be absent just between september first in november fifteenth but the rest of the year  the restriction i guess i'm confused as the draft reads now there is a limit on the total square foot it's and there but there is not a date exception in the current ordinance correct in the motion we're dilemma night any restriction on the total square footage right so with the proof of that motion the section that currently has a size limit and no date limit it so this is as this is as currently drafted right right maximum size you see there the center top of the box per side face with a total of eight hundred square foot total sign area so foot total sign area per property for that period of time that you are any period of time limit on the number of political signs but because their political signs we can say that after the election they have to come down so so what we're what we have what we're struggling with here is that these are going to apply to all properties  for all types of yard signs right so that was my next question so this if we get rid of these regs that applies to commercial signage too as ever it would apply to yard signs on both residential and commercial properties so so on commercial properties right they could have an unlimited number of yard signs you're around ok if we left the dates and there september first thirty november sixteenth and would that prevent a proliferation through the rest of the year on other kinds of yard signs i mean certainly i don't think we want fifteen i buy ugly houses signs and one front yard not that i have anything against the folks who buy houses but i'm looking for something that's acceptable to counsel be more palatable if we had the dates and if i if i could show i would like to switch to a different slide at the risk of being confusing towards the end i have this is the yard signs chart with the draft amendments in it highlighted and then to address councilman abel's question or concern on the november fifteenth that could be unlimited from september first through november fifteenth where you're pondering that kills or b did you have a question so my understanding is that councilman abel's concern is first amendment so i understanding from our our counsel you don't see any problem with first amendment problems limiting him to so many square feet year round so we're not we're not violating what he's rights was what you've proposed right now there's no constitutional problem with limiting the total square footage of signage year around or during the election season the september first november fifteenth the more you ratchet that number down you could get to a constitutional problem based on the case law that i think the point i wanted to make is that we were still speak content neutral not caring what's inside the sign and so during that september one through november fifteenth if i'm trying to advertise a new business i can you know put twenty of my you so i'm just saying  that it's not like you're controlling it to political free speech speech you are opening up a period for which and i don't want to call it clutter because i certainly understand people wanting to get get messages out but you know i think there's a balance and that's why i think that we given  creative solutions to using two sides sides of it since we're only going to count one ample square footage so i'm still kind of trying to hold firm to i think there's a creative way to balance the how our communities look with making sure that people can get their message a message out once or skilling i agree ok so we have a motion in a second and the other discussion and the other clarification on that frank's my only question was is we had talked about putting in at best practice is that going to be part of maybe not an official document but we're still going to kind of work with our sustainability folks to encourage you know new candidates who haven't already purchased things that best practices not that they'd be required to but just to basically encourage that process yes so that it won't be codified in the science standards but you know sustainability is is still moving forward  and i think the best practices would include looking at materials but i think even for more typical signs it will be looking at ways to recycle those and figure out a recycling stream that works thank you that's exactly what i was hoping for so on a number one when you look at yard signs what's similar to a yard sign would be a campaign sign that's posted on a fence and i know you look at the fence on number two but currently do we keep the same size that is on the books now for a campaign sign freestanding absent a yard sign so banners and things like that so currently are our political signs must be mounted to the ground on a wicket and i don't think there is a provision for banners on fences currently so my apologies but i pretty sure there is is there how do you and so i'm just trying to figure out where that plays into the spencer community code enforcement and looking at that if you guys wanted to look at if it is a banner as a yard sign then that could be placed on the fence currently you can have a banner within the limit which i believe is eight square feet that can be the height of the into so that that stays in place for a square feet thank you know the way that it's drafted would that with the amendment allowing it on a fence at six square feet would be the allowance ok so the rewrite removes it so that's potentially something if that is removed that might you know what i'm talking about our current ordinance not the first version of this rewrite the language in the current ordinances as election election signs shall be limited to wall window fence and free standing signs and shall not exceed excluder feet in size and forty two inches in height when free standing or the height of the fence when located on a fence  you clarify the section that you just read so the section that i just read is page nine dash three in the in the current sign ordinance and so it's section seventeen point nine point two point two d and that is before us tonight as plainly as read by yours you that's where you're pulling that from is what's in front of us to know this is what's this is the ok so that's so what you just read is not in our current that's what we're trying to do is not in what's being proposed correct bless you apologize ok so we'll have to discuss that because that might be something that needs to be brought in kelso franks the question i wanted to ask is i don't know that i don't have a problem going forward with basically a banner being three foot by two foot but many of us if we decide to rerun we've already got purchase signs that our minds mine are four by twos so i want to know about the legality of grandfathering in already purchased ones or if that creates more chaos and you know again you're just looking into why throw something away that you've already purchased but what do we get into from a legal perspective if we say if there someone's running for reelection they're allowed to use those materials but then it basically faces out new folks have to used to conform to three by t i did want to say it puts that people running for reelection at a slight advantage against the other side when i call that out well you could you probably couldn't limit it to candidates who've already purchased signs but that you could certainly delay the effectiveness of that provision to allow the next election cycle you would maintain the current regulations and then implement new ones after that so then someone who if they were running new would at least be on notice that they could be purchasing something that would not be reusable so then they would have to make that decision i kind of lean towards that that way it's kind of the best of both worlds but where in their package if we do their package that they get it clearly states that there's a sign change so they make the right decision for them at that time none of that is even in there no so so we would have to look at adopting seventeen point nine point two point two point that we have to look at including that but i think we could add  to what strafford we could add an additional supplemental standard e and we could have the provision in there for eight square feet and mounted on a fence and not a not above a fence no that would remain but i think if that's a typical dimension for a banner maybe it makes the most sense to write it in cancer skilling and then make a motion then why don't we just take the old d language and add it i guess it would be  don't you want to add it to the supplemental not so the not to the actual language of nine five yes ok so then i would make the motion that we take the old section seventeen point nine point two point two d and add that as little letter e to the supplemental standards of seventeen point nine point seven ok there's been the motion is our second franks in addition to if we're going to go down that route of the motion of adding it is as little easy to the screen we're seeing obviously we're seeing the potential that had the time extension which we've we've kind of talked about not doing but we need to change then the the six square foot in the table to being eight feet because then we're at at and that banner and is that is that we're saying is were they saying over all they can now be or is it just the banners that are hanging on the fence that can be the eight foot and we need to clarify that in the maximum size section because the one thing will contradict the other think it's only the banners so this would not this would be different from yard signs and just be banners political banners of this motion if we could and then the other recommendation for well let's just take a this is a motion by cancer scaling to adopt seventeen point one point two point two  current it talks about election signs so the language is going to have to be modified in a way that doesn't specifically talk to election signs so we got on the all right property owners don't own right of ways so that's fine property owners do own their easements are we going to tell them what they can put on their own property we're going to tell them they can't put a sign on the eas feet from sidewalks and outside of the public right a roy site triangles and i have a right of way in front of my house and i have to set the signs back right of way i have an easement at the side of my house that did start can drive down but i should be able to put a  easements and usually the activity you can engage in in an easement is dictated by the easement whether it's utilities matter what you can't put any permanent structures on and what have you i would like to just strike them and they raise and easement i think we can just we could do that and we do need a motion sir and the motion by striking the word the phrase and easements from paragraph signed material standards or not counsel franks so i move that we except the yard sign material standard amendment which allows for the yard signs to be constructed of paper vinyl plastic wood metal or other comparable lighter and therefore bark at there are generally plastic well i think i think this came because there was some discussion about leeway you know we all mentioned somebody who used old potato socks right and we want to make sure if that's the route somebody wants to go that we were wide enough to allow for that i do think that it is it is an acceptable catch all because materials will change there will be other materials to come out with that are as strong as this and lighter than that and so on and you don't want to be for clothes from using that space age polymer because it's not on the list i agree with that i'm just concerned about saying comparable is there a better word i think the strongest materials known to man and so you're would modified by saying comparable in terms of durable to your strength or something like that this is a pretty hairy list durable well so i guess i have a question its kind of in the same conversation her a minute ago so it is no on this sign height wasn't it dealt with on the prior motion so when we allow banners on fences i think that addresses what this motion was attempting to address but were covered on the fourth ok so we're good ok so we kind of did number three so we'll go to number four  i'm unclear on where we ended up on number three  yeah i mean so certainly certainly i mean we have three four five and six and seven and eight so let's keep on moving and does council want to address number three again we put number ok i'm not seeing any interest on three yet and so let's go to four so this had to deal with some of the issues we face with the existing site owners and the front and type spaces and so the recommendation would be to increase which i think came from feedback that councils heard from business owners  with advertising for their business there's was going to say i'm for there's a twenty five percent greater but it doesn't doesn't talk about the actual square footage so if you start so i mean is there a square footage element to this we have to put in there to cap it or does that not matter if there is a right for free standing signs there is a limit on square footage and so so this would just take it twenty five percent above the number that static within here brecht ok that's what i need to be clear about it wasn't there was a twenty five percent on both of those councilman i move that we adopt the the amendment four which deals with freestanding signs on frontage roads to add to line c properties located on frontage road shall be permitted to increase number five so could you just give us another quick summary of the origin of this yes this have to do with our moneyman signs and being able to give more flexibility from a standard money meant to pull sign where it might make sense or something that's more visual yes so this one in terms of free standing sign height what it has to deal with is that there are limitations within the site triangle so currently we have a limitation of eight feet so if your location where you can place the sign is primarily in a site triangle then it gives you a one foot tall sign so that's the proposal to raise that maximum height so you can have a little bit bigger sign up this again was brought to our attention through some businesses again that have struggled with signage on front of roads so entertain a motion on number five moved that we accept him and and meant for free standing sign height to increase the sign height from eight feet to twelve feet across all so districts except in the trance a context where it should remain at eight ok is paying to all sides of scott back to our bronco or things like that counselor frank's just wanting to go on record that i am not forcing an entire neighborhood of all these sports fans and seeing everyone lit up but certainly want to discuss that but just keep in mind that it can be any content including if neighbors are having a dispute so i tend to want to lean away from this one for fear of the  animosity it could cause for people expressing their opinions his wall on his garage he has a painting of papa all of oil and some other cartoon character no credit but i think that's art i also think a bronco is hellman is art if we let folk song commercial buildings have murals we run the risk of having someone put up a mural that's offensive to their neighbors there are certain things they cannot do they cannot make threats they cannot use hate language and they cannot make obscene drawings or suggestion so i would suggest that we allow neighborhoods to have the same chances yard art that commercial buildings because there is no more risk to off messages on garage doors in areas on the side of a pawnshop this this section as a sign versus art if anything let me first address some incorrect statements made by councilman abel so hate speech is protected by the first amendment threats are protected by the first amendment obscenity is not so you know if someone to put the f word in front of your name on their garage they could do that wouldn't that be obscene no that's not obscene or yeah i'd say that right now and it be obscene well it's not legally of it's not constitutionally obscene maybe you think it's obscene but it's not constitution so we keep someone from playing out on a commercial building nothing thank you no we are going to allow it on commercial buildings but we should just we not allow it on residential buildings yeah i mean you wouldn't expect business owners to put that on their buildings but maybe they would you would expect the neighbors to put it on their garage story there you there they'll go back but you have to have a right if if we're going to if the director could say no that sign falls outside no we can't you know now ok so what would the permit ok so let's address that them when somebody could put that on any one of these signs and where they could on a yard sign they could put it on a on a wall sign and he did it doesn't matter that's why i wonder why we're making the distinction between allowing out on commercial buildings and not allowing it  don't think neighbors are going to be any more likely to do that than commercial the immediate question property hounslow simply do you want to allow people in residential neighborhoods to basically put  artwork on their garages and the artwork could be pleasant artwork like penguins or it could be unpleasant you can make the same argument on commercial right so why are we why are we making a distinction between the two you have the opportunity tonight to decide whether you'd like to allow that on commercial as well we just don't get the same kind of presentation about commercial that we do about residential so your staff is put in the position of having to determine what constitutes our work and what constitutes signage following the reverses tony gilroy case there was a case that came out of the fourth circuit court of appeals that dealt with a gentleman in norfolk virginia who wanted to protest the use of eminent domain on his property and he put up with a large sign a three hundred seventy five square foot sign on his building that protested the use of eminent domain on his property and the norfolk code had exemption for artwork and so he creatively said well my sign is artwork the case went up through the courts and following reverses down to gilbert the fourth circuit court of appeals found that that sign code was unconstitutional because it puts staff in the position of picking and choosing what constituted art work how do you know that that eminent domain the entertainment domain sign was a sign versus art work so now we're put in the position of having to not regulate art as art or in signs as signs but to regulate them all as the same thing and so what what the solution to that is you can regulate a type of sign a painted wall sign which is essentially a miracle and put some parameters on it something is bally's have chosen to not allow those at all and so then you basically don't allow any type of you know our work whether it be on a commercial buildings around residential buildings the way that staff has drafted  the draft that's in front of you allows artwork on commercial buildings but not on residential buildings and you know i can let mr wilson speak to staff's thinking on why that they've done  that but you could certainly you could make the decision tonight to not allowed on any property or allowed on every property that person same content neutral to me there's nothing about the content with respect to whether it's painted on a building so i think if there's an excess so i think i think one of the nice things why people like lakewood is there's not a lot  is and if you live in a joey they can regulate that sort of thing and so i'm me personally would rather just leave that to people that live in in people that don't if you want to paint something on your house you have the right to paint something on your house so that's kind of where i fall on that and i think that's where you fall back sort of agree with you on that but my other concern i was feel like it should be buy i know this is going to be crazy but it's one of those other home ost feel like it should be by his own or zoning district or something because you also have a bunch of brand new and i don't want to break this up but i'm just saying you will these new houses insult terror and other things like that i just have a harder time imagining this artwork but to that point in certain places i would bet you would not allow you to do that you get like three shades of brown so ok so we're taking that out of this conversation  well i can tell you that in certainly in my ward if neighbors in most of the neighborhoods that were where i live and in my war started putting up  know building signs they would not be happy i can guarantee it they would not expect it and they would want to know why isn't there something in place i can and we don't have a choice but they would say you know to them it's one thing on a  go over like a lead balloon in neighborhoods in my ward so i would have to say that restriction should remain what if they painted god bless the usa well it's a good question i don't know how they would feel about temporary but i think permanently yeah yeah yeah i do and i think most people you know why i say that because i don't see it anywhere in my ward that's why i say it because i don't see it anywhere well you were up did you know ok so number six the proposed language would be to strike the words except properties with single family and duplex  well that's what i need to get some sort of so there's no no willingness to have a motion on that so we'll move on and i would move  out except properties of a single family and duplex uses from a painted wall sign location good on number seven was the electronic message the changes especially on the column five on pitch and color was that adopted when with they were experts but the sign advocate fellows that came up and talked about it is that where this came from that change the the design expert who was here argued against the pitch spacing but the pitch spacing has been used by fort collins and they have there been articles in the paper about how they like the way that standard has worked for them and so we've maintained it as drafted so the table that you see before you the change in the language is to clarify that electronic message signs are allowed for civic an institutional uses in all zone districts and then in commercial uses in all zone districts but then it has the two categories of less than two hundred thousand square feet and then more than two hundred thousand square feet so this was to clarify that electronic message signs are not allowed on residential properties with single family and duplex uses and the spacing that's proposed here was at odds with what those folks came in and told us about but it does comport with what for collins and others have adopted brecht think you residential zone districts and so that's the first row on the table so if you were a church you would be in institutional use and that's allowed in all zone districts ok thank you  motion for numbers of them but i move that we accept the amendment as written for electronic message sign chart for table seventeen so number eight you have a and and i guess for me do we have any outliers that you can think of that aren't major collector or  tell me what you mean by all that your car is so i'm thinking maybe some of our smaller retail or restaurant that may not be on a arterial or major collector none that come to mind but in the past six years that i've been reviewing signed permit applications we haven't had a single application for neon so i am not sure it's a i'm not sure it's a we'll see a lot of it  we have seen applications to convert neon to l e d for efficiency but i think this response was based on the gentleman from the sign industry who wanted to make sure we didn't preclude it if they were working on a historic sign for sure so then we were to adopt eight with a b the language and then and underneath it yeah i would recommend both sections it's two different lines and if if you they they both need to be adopted or or there will be contradictory language ok thank you for the clarification yes please sorry sharon she's been taking the heavy lifting here so all to sell tickets i mow for the adoption of amendment for the neon lighting section seven thousand nine hundred five to eight pages one through twenty three update the light source some sign shall not be visible from adjacent properties with the exception of neon signs located on nonresidential properties and section seventeen dot nine dot five dot to dot seat out to update with the source of illumination is within the sign cabinet or mounted on the ground illumination means illumination by means of neon tubing is not allowed just to clarify the council if there's no action made on the recommendation that we see for number three what will be in place well you know what will be in place is six square feet per sign so i propose a motion that we adopt proposed potential amendment three table seventeen point nine point seven update column three to six square feet per sign face max and twelve square foot total sign area from november sixteenth through october thirty first and twenty four square feet total sign area from september first through november fifteenth per property is there a second the second there doesn't it and there was an error on the date ranges instead of october thirty  first thirty first that it and said yeah thank you and was wondering why we have been ok so the modified motion would just take out it would say november sixteenth through august  motion with the correct date range if everybody is good with  guy so i will reread it so i move the adoption of a moment three yard sign area to table seventeen point nine point seven update column three to six square feet per sign face max and twelve square feet total sign area from november sixteenth through october thirty first i'm sorry august thirty first and twenty four square feet total signer area from september i guess for one thing i'm still kind of struggling with what we're doing here but i also like to remind you all that you have to live with this in his letter actions and if you find somebody that's willing to put up a large sign for you  here certainly so there's a motion a second and i'm just i'll say i don't i don't like either version but just i think especially should have the opportunity as many yard signs of whoever you support but that's where i'm coming from yeah i would add i wouldn't mind upping that twenty four square footage the last month or or whatnot as well because we have a motion second on the floor on that there's no more discussion of the eve heard suggestions then we can address it from there but let's address the motion in the second so if there's no more discussion please cast your  so number four as a reminder is the freestanding signs on frontage roads and you approved a motion to allow for a size increase height and area increase of twenty five percent for a free standing site on a front  drug the part that concerns us is a carryover language from somewhere else but approved at the discretion of the director and with the way signs are now being regulated in content neutral and all that is really not a discretionary decision that's either  it's road sign freestanding sign and it's allowed for that increase or it's or doesn't qualify and there's no increase so we would recommend a motion that would remove the language approved discussion of the director from number four as previously amended so in other words there would be in their base to be an automatic twenty five percent bonus for signing area and height along frontage roads but why couldn't the director approve it for other reasons as nothing do with content whether it's site or just something unique about that area whatever that is i mean a concept if you'd like to propose if you'd like to propose standards but i'm which the director can approve a bonus then you can certainly do that but the way it currently been approved is it has no standards you saying no where in this or in this sign ordinance is there any definitions about discretion of the director or how things are approved an effort was made to remove those yeah i mean as as brian said you could have a limitation as long as it's not in the site triangle or something like that but there has to be some kind of standards to apply to that so it's not just objective standards as not  left to the discretion of the of the director but i don't think removing approved at the discretion of the director takes anything away from that number for amendment it's still allows for that bonus for properties with free standing signs on front of drugs it just makes it more black and white like you know a stop sign or other with then it be able to be removed because it was a safety but i know that's not can normal conditions i'm just trying to figure out would there be an area in which we could be covering up directional or other types of signage that are required for public safety and typically no typically those signs are all in the right of way and then these are freestanding signs on private property so typically we don't have motion that we remove from the freestanding signs in front you drove a prior amendment the wording approved at the discretion of the director i second it they were a motion of the second please so we we would be adopting if we adopt without any changes to three could you just please clarify the language yes if we if we do not change three will be adopting six square feet maximum per side eight hundred square feet per property consistently through the whole year so there would be no additional allowance during the election time if i could be so bold as i i think there's the i think that there's probably a compromise an area here that would satisfy most folks i well i welcome it well what if we have but there's just clarification you're right yes we voted on a modified and we did vote on this as is and i'm curious to just hear if there could be a suggestion that make it might get  everybody to where we need to be so please what if we bump the total area up to thirty two square feet that's allowed from september first through november fifteenth so thank you for that recommendation and i'll leave that to the body  yeah i don't have a real problem with that i mean i've gotten lost in the discussion i'm sorry i try to follow it and who because of slate but but as far as the concept goes the idea that we're going to allow more yard signs for a short period during the election cycle i don't have a problem with that i don't think anybody would really have a big i mean i can't imagine people expect that so i don't see a problem with an thirty two certainly a reasonable number so i'd be ok with that and then you limit it back the rest of the year i'm fine with that so moved so moved do you need so the cook clarification would  be the you would yes so the table up to column three is six square feet person face max and twelve square feet total sign area from november sixteenth to august thirty first and thirty two square feet tall sign area from september first to november fifteenth per property s so i just wanted to clarify earlier the motion that was voted down was for less and so now we're going more all right i just want to make sure folks are aware that this is not just political signs you are opening this up to i'm just saying you know i chose specifically to not live in n h away and i lived with lovely lovely neighbors but during the campaign cycles there is so much contention and signs being stolen and destroyed and disappearing and where now as well that we voted down the twenty four square feet that went up from eighteen and now the vocals to go from eighteen to thirty two and are going to try to pass that just so we're clear that's what we're doing ok ok motion a second please almost five for the nos have it johnson vincent frank all right so with that said let's take a vote on this whole body of work please i'll just say the comments thank you all very much for your hard work ok go change the intent and i'd like to know why we changed the the purpose in intent language when we could have slid in just the comment that this can farms with content neutral requirements instead we were changed a lot of the purpose and intent why did we do that so in addition to evaluating your existing signed code for compliance with read versus town of gilbert we i certainly under took my review of this with an eye toward addressing other possible constitutional defects in the sign ordinance when a court reviews any type of speech regulation the first thing it looks at is the purpose statement and i can say having just recently gone through a trial on a first minute matter that the purpose statement is incredibly important to the ultimate constitutionality of the ordinance and so i made some recommendations to staff as to ways that the purpose statement could be strengthened and what you see is a reflection of that input so if you have any specific questions about any of the items in the purpose statement i'd be happy to answer them ok why did we remove the language that referred to visual discord visual discord as a subjective matter and the language you replaced it with was there's your old white blight is a term that is defined in state law it's defined with respect to the use of urban renewal in the courts except the definition of blight as sort of being a commonly understood notion specifically physical conditions of infrastructure for the most part or are ground in these places i think what mr connerly saying is we know what plate is in a lot of different contexts and in this context we're talking about blight resulting that would result from the unrestricted display of science that will lead to the u s supreme court has as upheld the use of a static judgments based on that the state law notions of blyton that was in the r there's another item in here and it kind of raises a red flag for me and that we didn't get a red line copy and then you know that everything changes one of the things we have done in the new one is impose a size limit for flags what does that have to do with content frags were dressed in seventeen point nine point two two of the original of every three items and there are no size limit on flags right some of the reasons we changed it was because flags were defined bills of countries states provinces that's not content neutral what does sixty square feet have to do with content neutral the sixty square feet doesn't have anything to do with the content neutrality however how we had to define previously which was flags of nations does have to do with contents are our definition is flags that isn't limited to flags of nations so there is a size limitation if we wanted to remove that we could but i'm wondering whose idea it was to put in the size limitation and why it is in there if it has nothing to do with content neutrality it has to do with limiting the size of the flag exactly that has nothing to do with its content just a side there are two separate topics pickups the flag could be anything it could be something other than a flag of nations so it could be you know don't tread on me flag pardon it could be a don't tread on me flag yes it could be any number of flags i'm not sure that i have in the junction to limiting the size of flags i just wonder where it came from and why we're doing it when the purpose of this is to come into conformity with the content neutral rulings having to do with gilbert we can and we can limit area and we can yes we can and we can limit size ok why are we doing is there let's that's fair and regrettably i wish we could have maybe addressed this prior to the night's meeting but is there a motion would you like to see that removed i mean i think the answer was this is why that happened i don't want to get into a debate about it but if you'd like to change it that's fine that's ok would like to see that renewed i just wondered where it came from and you know i think that's a fair question what's the origin of the idea and what what is your what is the reason it was offered the reason it was all for may be compelling enough that i wouldn't object to the putting in the size the limit i just want to know what that reason is and i haven't heard right so the sign was based on the area based on other what meet other municipalities and limited in terms of the size limitation it was going back to the original statement of regulating signs and flag area so if that's not compelling is there is there a reason to do this mr cox crack at this i wasn't part of the discussion as to why that was added except that a lot of what you're dealing with in this new world of sign codes is placing total square footage or  aerial limits on different types of signs this is a a type that's different from the other signs and there's been a determination that too much is too much a sign that's too big has perhaps visual blight even if it's the stars and a same reason that you limit the total area of yard signs you might want to limit total area of banners you might want to limit the total area of wall signs and in this case flags that's all i can offer is that too much of anything is too something my concern stems from when things aren't clearly spelled out to us or pointed out to a specifically i don't know how many of us up here recognize that we were changing the size of flags so process issue as much as anything that was brought to your attention in life or things like that to be mentioned and secondly if there is a good reason fine and visual clutter may be a justifiable reason i was just trying to get at what that was and why we were presented with it so that no one else objects i'm not going to make a that have had comprehensive updates relative to the recent court case thanks and i'm not sure if you're asking about models like other municipalities but if you want to look at a at a good national model sign code that was that not made for any specific municipality you could also consult the american planning associations book called street graphics in the law which contains a model ordinance as well thanks thank you put that on our summer reading list i'm going on vacation next week now i know what i'm doing all right any more discussion seeing them please job you took a lot of bullets the first night i came back with a lot in the attention to detail and mr conley thank you for your precise nature and your answers very helpful and gale thanks  job and your job is to answer those and you've done a very good job of it thank you all so frank's most things don't need a third but that does result against is appreciated thank you well done ok so next up we have general business and there's going to be a few different things my topic simply has to do with veterans memorial and i know councilor remember a time right ball and some fellow council members worked on  world war two memorial but over memorial day a vietnam veteran contacted me and mentioned that they had to go to brighton for ceremony and so i thought it might be a worthy a c i c assignment to look at and promoting what we do have and maybe looking at something that we don't and i know we have world war two however we've talked about korea we've talked about vietnam and we have a lot of wars that have been going on for the last twenty years and a lot of veterans within our community so i'd like to send that to they see i see it with council approval i think that's a very good idea and there perhaps we could find a way to work again with our fourth of july celebrations mair you know it's been kind of lysol make this short and sweet thank you so much we have a lot of veterans specially on on city staff and we have a lot of veterans in the area and i'd like to go ahead and make also include the motion to also invite them and bring them on board him and start developing ideas and concepts and we have service organizations that would be willing to help so i think the way i would want that to play into that would be to look at stakeholder groups and interview stakeholder groups for the rigid for the first phase of the assignment well you know i've been thinking about this and maybe i'm just going to put it out there what if we created a separate commission to actually address this and actually address some  veteran concerns the veteran memorials and an ass or her professional our veterans for systems what i have seen and heard is that they just need to be asked and they'd be more than happy to to help us address some of these issues i'm certainly open to the my intention is to go through the e c i see to start and have them to start to look at and i would welcome that inclusion for them to reach out to our i know we have organized veterans group in our staff and we have those resources and just to let them start that and we can when they come back carry that to the next phases certainly ok so what i hear you saying is maybe have our staff that we already have already started with west metro veterans fare and we've been doing this for the last five six years if we asked them if they'd like to participate in helping us with the veterans memorial sos what i would envision since this is an assignment i see to let them know that the intention is to look  what do we have already how can we promote what we have already and what can we do to look out some sort of a new opportunity to honor our veterans and then allow them to have that scope to bring in you suggestion to have the american flag out in our area out here perhaps have a beautiful flag out there with the plaque in front of it saying honoring those who have served and those who are  serving so so i mean i think that this is all great and we can take that feedback and certainly you know this is just the beginning i think of something that will go a long way we good tem motion for executive session i move to hold a special meeting on july ninth two thousand and eighteen at five thirty pm and the council but then we will reopen for our regular meeting ok then c is just for clarification on c that will take place immediately following tonight's meeting five one five print the c c s parentheses four of the lakewood home rule charter and section twenty four dash six dash four zero two four parentheses for parentheses b and twenty four dash six dash four zero two parentheses for print the c z of the colorado revive statue for the purpose of determining position relative to the issue of subject of to negotiations to receive reports from the negotiators and to develop a strategy and to instruct negotiators and to discuss matters of attorney client privilege all concerning of the city city strategy going forward regarding the dispute with the town of morrison an issue issues subject to attorney client privilege or second motion in the second please cast your votes and passes eight i one nay than a being paul code establishing the budget and audit board in appointing the members there to and abolishing the ad hoc budget an audit committee created by resolution two thousand c seventeen dash forty seven all right to make this is quick as possible firstly we cite are trying to make this compatible with the charter of what section of the charter we violate our reporting into question madam clerk i don't know i don't have the section of the charter and from memory but maybe if i could please explain why i did it the way that i did can i can explain it maybe that will help  and maybe i understood what this was what you were supposed to be doing but the current the current ad hoc committee is for one year from january first to december thirty first and it appoints those three members and when you asked earlier where the definition of that ad hoc committee came from it came out of robert's rules that's where i that's where we got it and it says  trying to remember where and here that said that by definition authorized will fill only a temporary per purpose so that's where that came from and the purpose temporary being one year and we've done it every year the other thing that i looked at was your policy and procedures manual that you just adopted and then committees committee assignments says committees as of as of the adoption of this manual not including ad hoc our budget not it committee so i felt like what council wanted through their budget through their policies was this not to be an ad hoc committee ok ok so i made it a board ok so that's my explanation for the way it came it came to me or i was trying to figure out how to make  purpose and accordingly that we could leave it the way it is i have no problem making it a board or a commission but it does occur to me that since they had been serving on a year to year basis and are limited to t than two years is the limit the effective limit they could stir under the current makeup so if we go to this you know we have three people who have already served their two terms under that definition and by handling it ad hoc for all of this time we put our painted ourselves into a corner that's my concern  respond to that yes please the section of the code that speaks to boards and commissions it speaks to boards and commissions serving to your i mean to turn the terms it doesn't speak vacant until january first or whatever however i'm not sure how you want to do that i was raising the issue and i other concern is that do we know have the numbers of the budget an audit committee the citizen members goes through the screening commission we do now do and no one minutes to offer their protests were able that being said then the time factor on how long they can be on that board would be under the policies and procedures correct if it's a board it's actually part of the code yeah so the maximum would be two terms at three years three years apiece so  from here on in it would be cycled out yes max of two terms and then that's it they're done right ok thank you and so their quest earlier thank you councillor able for the clarification the request earlier was to move it a little bit further down the road to potentially july twenty third so that there could be an opportunity and just the discussion would be around there's been some concern with the dates  to have it replaced sooner than later so there'd be a vacancy now and then change so the council would begin the process to appear fill that seat and then the second one would come off in december because this is what was discussed in the framework of the of the city council policies and procedures the second one would come off in early nineteen and then the third one would come off in two thousand and twenty for two reasons  stagger that way you would have a whole new group and you'd start to begin those terms over again so that was the consensus that we had from policies and procedures and then the other suggestion that came out tonight would be that there's no chair for this group so council including language to create a chairperson from the city council for that board elsewhere liber i think my suggestion would be to to push this down the road a little bit have a chance to develop some proper amendments instead of just doing it off the dyess today so is there a motion to know there's also a concern about where these discussions happen if there are specific questions you know we want to have a provision for a chair to be appointed will add that if there's a specific question about the membership or the dates or anything  we can do our best to answer those questions and and be prepared to discuss them in second reading but we don't want to be rewriting it offline well the only i originally i think council councilor and i had looked at this and all we wanted to do was be able to put an amendment in a second for the second reading which would clarify the dates because we didn't agree with how they had set up the dates we felt like the newest one on count the newest one to be appointed which is a vacancy now was only going to get a year and the other ones that had been there forever were still going to get another three years and so we said well no that's not in accordance with what we had talked about it and so forth so we were going to propose an amendment to to rewrite that to change it to the intent and then to add something on chairmanship so that was our intent and what that that would be simple then i understood there was some concern from staff about that and that maybe we needed to continue that or move that down the road a little bit to address some of the concerns which i have no idea what those are and we said fine we're willing to do that and  that's where we're at and then the suggestion came up well let's just pull it from the agenda indefinitely and he said well if that's all we have to do to get this done but that's that's not my request now wasn't councilman libya's request either and just for the record the only changes i heard anything about were the two that you reference the dates of membership and the chairmanship so those be the case i mean they could be brought up second reading as motions but they need to be ironed out first you know on that which be councillors harrison lived there and be done if you guys want to work on what those look like and we can get them to staff and then come back we can offer him as amendment so then we'll just need a motion them to move it to second reading use me miss i believe there was some her discussion about an issue with the chair not not naming a chair or just a provision to have a chair person i don't i don't know that that's necessary since robert's rules says that you will choose you will choose a chair from among the committee themselves but if you want something and hear differently need to know what  that would be and what what we're looking at is having a chairman but we've got three members from the community and we would like to make sure that the chairman provide in there that the chairman has to be a member of council right which i'm not sure rule out robert's rules of order addresses that and that's what was proposed that's the direction i was looking for yes thank you i'll just so entertain a motion to move ordinance twenty eight hundred twelve to second in final reading on july ninth on july ninth and to be published in all the so moved it's i'm sorry it's already scheduled for second reading july ninth so we're going to bring a revised ordinance to be amended from the floor so because we pulled it from general business and then adopted under consent to we have to republic shit first second and final reading and those decisions will be made from the diocese which is really just   men meant to change the dates chairmanship and i'm not sure we need to re publish we're still voting to pass on first reading it's just not being done as part of consent agendas being done separately after discussion so i think we need a i put in a request for a council action yesterday i learned on late thursday night that the second half of the taylor property is for sale has been for some time and is now on the auction block and set to go to auction on july thirteenth to the highest bidder no reserve no new low no minimum no nothing so the property will be sold at that point and i was certainly one of the people that had a great interest and c n n s take a look at possibly purchasing that second half to go along with the first half that we already have i did take the liberty  yesterday they had an open house out there so i had the first time chance to go out and if i may say so so did the mayor pro tem but accompanying me and we went and did took the tour so the entire place not only of the sixty five acres that's now up for auction but we got a chance to tour our property which we've never seen and i've got to tell you we we made a heck of a deal and i gotta tell you so i'm bringing this up because i want the council to be aware of this because i don't think most of any of us was aware of it and we're on a very short fuse we've got two and a half weeks to july thirteenth after that the property will be  gone i'm not sure how to proceed here i guess i know that we before going to do something i mean it seems to me there's two parts one do we want to pursue trying to purchase this property number two if so we're going to have to put the parameters on what how much money are we willing to spend give some authority to our staff to to get into negotiations with with mr taylor and his representatives so i see that is sort of the broad the broad direction here but i'm not sure how to accomplish that given the short time that we have we're kind of behind the eight ball here so i'm looking for any help any suggestions from staff counsel whatever ok so yeah that's a heavy deal in a lot of ways and we had a conversation earlier as well about because normally when there's a council request for action it needs to go in the process and get out of everybody's packets that's that's the deal and there was some urgency to to this request and  i think and i'll certainly turn over to miss hobson there were a couple things when we were looking at the entirety of the property and one was the the provisions of keeping that house and the buildings whole for use as well as some other different things i want to be careful in case where getting into things that we shouldn't so i'll just turn it over to well and i guess i guess really the deal is this i'm sorry that we've had priorities for open space and i know that there are people on this diocese that would like to see big parcels bought in their areas as well and so do you make this kind of deal on  fly do we know exactly what it entails i certainly know that this hobson's is great familiarity with this the idea was would we have a executive session to discuss this more in depth but there was a feeling that there was enough time for that to take place so i'm going to turn it over to miss hudson so i have also to add the property several times and i've been in the home and in several of the outbuildings and it is a gorgeous piece of  neighbors who are trying to build a consortium to look at the potential purchase i also believe this is a conversation we ought to be having in the executive session probably from th process stance really so it's certainly accept your advice and i think that's the best way forward to not have this in public anymore there's folks that would like to kathy i think you're absolutely right i think we need to go to executive session on is and time is of the essence so i would like to see if we can do that as soon as possible thank you once in a lifetime and it's certainly worth discussing in executive session because of the urgency i'm just wondering how long has this been how long has anybody known that it was for sale could we have done this it is sooner time i don't know the date so how how far in advance of that of those advertisements was this decision made by the family i have no idea but it's been in the works on time if they opportunities that i think we should be prepared to fund which means we need the money to do it so i would just reiterate the need for us to take a look at her and as will finance thanks and serbia well i can tell you that i also did a little research and i found the website a previous website where it was on the market just this piece dating back some time and i talked to  real estate broker yesterday what he wasn't getting any offers or wasn't what he wanted and so he decided to go ahead and put it on the auction so this is the second phase of this property be in for sale it was put on shortly after we bought the first piece because that's when the deal for the artistic group that was looking at it fell apart and so this was quite some time ago so we want to be really let's not have any more conversation with ok and just to remind counsel we are still seeking reimbursement for the first round that we purchased from our reserves which was seven million dollars hearing that counts would like to have an executive session pardon me can i clarify that we did get a question from a citizen recently wanting confirmation that the property that we bought has been closed upon and just to make that super clear yes we're looking for reimbursement but the city of like what does that property and they they are we own it as a park and open space period so as hudson i guess in order to have you prepared for a executive session i mean clearly you're looking at a private land deal so i'm not exactly sure what background in  that you're going to have that's going to gain so it be an authorization of some sort of financial and i guess when could you be ready and we don't meet next week so the next next available meeting is july ninth other than if we had another advance of the meeting on the ninth we can hold an executive session if you'd like after the meeting on the night philosophically in there could be a once in a lifetime and i certainly support us if we could have the opportunity i know through the back through the work that our counselor staff has done we've explored every opportunity to have a parcel like this and there were pros and there were cons i also know that there's folks on the other side of town that see a piece of land that they would like to buy and we certainly have fifty nine acres that is could potentially be available so i just want to really caution us when we go forward with this sort of conversation i mean each ward each councilman wants to do different things and i want to say we have a fiduciary responsibility to this community so let's be prepared but to rush on something of this magnitude is challenging and also to look hindsight and maybe say well we missed the bus or we fell asleep at the wheel that is not the case by any means this is a private land owner is utilizing his private property rights and do not want to hear that from this diocese that somehow we were asleep at the wheel yes we could call a special meeting not that i'd be looking forward to it but there is that's always a possibility and so frank's i guess maybe somebody can help  understand the process it seems like if we had an executive session after the meeting on the regular meeting on the ninth that still given that it's auction would be time for us to hear the information us to at least understand from our community what their thoughts are on the matter now that you know obvious it's been been said from up here and then that still gives time to if the council want to take action given the process is i don't know if that's enough time i don't know what the registration process is if that's something that can be done if we decide to can we can we reasonably do we know can we be ready to take action if we decide to take action if we met his latest the ninth  yes so the answer to that question is i would need to find out what the conditions of the auction is are because we may need to come a cashier's check in order to even participate in the auction so we'd have to understand all of those roles a stumbling block for us typically we only pay a fair market value for our property and if we're if we're participate if i'm understanding you correctly you're saying would participate in an auction for this property no they're really not necessarily there is also the option because i spoke to the auctioneer in the broker both he if he got an offer that he found acceptable he can pull it from the auction we don't have this conversation executive i just wanted would it be reasonable to propose it as a motion for the ninth providing you do not get information that indicates that that is so we would have to then do something different providing if you get information that says that that's not a reasonable timeframe to have a response then we wouldn't need to know that and then all agree to a special meeting otherwise the night seems sufficient to me without work for i get a look and it seems like that's good so yes the ninth is a regular meeting so we don't have to call a special meeting we called a special meeting so that we could meet before to do the other yes we can do like we're doing tonight it agenda item on the ninth and as scouser frank said subject to information showing that that would be a futile effort and if there's some condition we could i would prefer we have a special meeting as soon as possible so that we can go into executive session on this to give our counsel or our staff as much time as possible to deal with the owner otherwise you're looking at three days and that's not much time on this kind of a deal so i would prefer we go to a special session as soon as possible there pro tem or a ball you know i'm looking at why can't we do it during during the this next week maybe possibly on friday in the afternoon or evening so we have to counselors gone to that  but that piece of property so this pieces of great interest to them as well in their in their in their ward and i certainly don't know what other people schedules are as to travel that we're coming up on a holiday weekend and without a council meeting next monday night and i do think that the route councilor frank's proposed makes sense because there could be a lot to that and with people watching tonight are tuning in to see things could change and i think the best way is that of miss hobson just start to look into what's going on and we could have that potentially if we need to  executive report thank you just a couple of things i just want to reaffirm that we heard clearly from the neighbors of the rat infested house and that's been of hi attention and of the staff and we will continue to work in haste to get this eradicated and to clean this up and i want to make that confirmation with you there was also here's just an f i in two thousand and thirteen city council gave the following assignment to the ac i c commission and it went as follows research and develop s practices to promote civility in city government and especially when the public is speaking at city council meetings ward meetings and other government functions so in two thousand and fifteen city council approved the proposal brought forward by a c i see which included signage in council chambers putting information on channel eight and prefacing meetings with rules of civility so we just wanted you to be aware that in the near future you're going to start seeing signs in posters which would be a graphic reminder for all of us to treat each other with respect so  a continuation of the executive board the c m l board and i want to thank a few councillor specifically for their work in helping me become reelected and i'd like to think update on the c c h litigation it's the colorado coalition for the homeless litigation against two i think two federal agencies and she asked for that on over the weekend and we contacted her outside counsel and she checked the dock and lo and behold there's an order today decision of the federal government the age was arbitrary and capricious and therefore the sale should be stopped martinez rejected that argument and found that there was no or not adequate likelihood of success on the merits we've talked in other contexts about the standards for preliminary injunction one of those is the court needs to find that the party seeking the injunction has demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits if the case goes forward to trial and judge martinez ruled that that burden had not been met by c c h and therefore the preliminary injunction as been denied what happens or frequently happens when you have that kind of ruling is the party that did not prevail you know counts up the budget and looks at the likelihood of success having judges ruling that you're not likely to succeed on the merits and frankly that's the end of the case but we certainly can't predict that that's the case  as already scheduled right thank you marty anything i just would ask you to state that you're going into an executive session and you won't be coming back to the regular meeting for a i would just like to say that because of the significance of judge martinez says ruling today i'd like to see a salsa consider an executive session regarding the denver federal center and potential uses of that land and th zoning and purchase of that as well first thing second thing is the ladies gone of course that was speaking out about bristol kon numerous complaints and issues regarding noise at around lakewood high school in the sound system and the reality is that the city doesn't even own a discipline meter i did purchase one they have it out there and they're using it there's really no way that we can address noise unless we have an a way to measure it so this might be a way for us to start to look at our noise ordinance again in regards to  hope i don't get in trouble for this but ronnie knight have a good idea about discussions on that fifty nine acres and what we might be able to do with it however we're on a short timeframe with that as well from sort of the bare these are council reports this isn't general discussion and i mean if you want to have a rule have to bring that up at a further date calls for a live there well i have a similar just thing to bring up which is not necessarily report but i just want to add this real quick because i think it warrants mentioning the action center as i'm sure some of you are aware but i'd like to make sure that all of us are aware closed its doors last thursday not this the previous thursday what did i say excuse me yes the action center shelter closed its doors my last thursday but the week before so i want to make sure one's aware that because i'm particularly concerned about it because it is the only homeless shelter that we have in jefferson county so that's eight hundred beds that's eight thousand people that are potentially out in the streets and while i understand this is not simply a city of lakewood issue it is a broader jefferson county issue it is also a city of lakewood issues want to make sure that we're doing something to address homelessness so i intend to propose a resolution that says that we're going to work with our counterparts at the county and try to do something to make sure that people aren't sleeping in culverts who otherwise would have been out about so it's one of us and then i also encourage all of us to reach out to our counterparts in the county and other cities ms pallies that we know in jefferson county to try to address this issue so things thank you so certainly i'd encourage those that want to have further discussions to submit and lesson learned for all of us if we're talking about purchasing land the any sort of aspect we probably should have that from the diocese with that go be twenty nine hundred twenty twenty school year so so that's an announcement and also they're trying to build a teacher's lounge in a trailer i guess is what do you call it yeah temporary thank you from all harm school so if anybody would like to help donate to that they can go to the edgewater collective dot org and they're going to be using that money to try and update and give the teachers in that location my home an upgrade and that's it well i wish everybody a happy fourth we have the first ever big boom bash on july fourth a jeffco stadium and please remember fireworks of all kinds are illegal in the city  lakewood we had the worst year ever last year and i hope that we can have better success with that so we will adjourn from this meeting at eleven forty five and we will not be coming back from executive session thank you