show and marjorie stewart is here in the studio good morning margery good morning suzanne what do you have for us today well we're lucky to have jen cody who is executive director of and i'm a foot share with us and  very much involved in the saving movement and keeps her provincial national and international aspects of the movement to and we're particularly interested in seeds right now because it's countdown to c sunday which will be this sunday and remember it and yes yes it's no longer a bone park all right so welcome to jen good morning and let's jump right into it because i find with huge topics like this most of us particularly involved in a program like this have a smattering of knowledge and we think oh i know about that until we really start asking some questions and getting some interesting answers so i propose we start with the notion that the seed saving movement is the movement of resistance resistance to corporate control of the elements of life for the human species that seeds are part of resilience as well and so when you're thinking about control of seeds and seeds at a local level then that that ability to be resilient within your own region is really based on seeds so you don't particularly want pretty packet of seeds that where produced in romania well i guess it depends on what you're looking for sometimes the seeds that travel from romania to here have a lot that they can share and what they can build in terms of genetic diversity within an area and seeds are adaptable to different local regional area regions they're important in terms of the genetic diversity aspect of things i think that where we can be really useful in the work that we do in terms of seeds is having an understanding of local seeds and also understanding of the value of having locally adopted seeds and the skills that are part of seed saving as well i like that you brought up that other notion of diversity because a lot of people have figured out that climate change is a major challenge along with energy depletion and they understand that what we're looking for is to be able to live in a resilient way that can deal with bigger is of climate and weather and stuff like that and one of the ways that made more resilient is with diversity so we talk a lot of diversity and seeds i was absolutely shocked when i learned canada is it less than three hundred it would definitely be three hundred five thousand for a it is you see maybe what three or four in the grocery stores don't you well now they've started daming them by color  diversity and some of the things that i wanted to raise too was if the big seed corporations control all the seeds or most of the s then the small amount of seeds that are being kept in a vault in norway's take are not going to be enough if there's a for seeds has maybe five percent of what diversity now i might be a little bit off on that but i know that the percentage of the genetic diversity that alford represents is actually quite small relative to the actual diversity within the countries that are are putting the seeds into the vault and so while it has an important role i think in terms of preserving the genetics within different countries that it's it's  small proportion of what's actually being saved on the ground and so the with the genetic diversity aspect then you know the folks that really have a role in being able to do that are the farmers in the people who've been saving the seeds over the years in many cases they're the nations that they live in have tried to protect them and keep running up against these corporate agreement international agreements in which large corporations whose only interest is really profit can try to take ownership of seeds that farmers over decades and millennia have developed for particula characteristics i think my introduction to that was posed by rice appears to be protected at the moment but everything can change and what bothers me is that a person who has no education about what it means that these seeds are controlled by corporations can go into a garden center and innocently buy seeds that mean they are continuing the profits of the corporation that put the seeds into that packet and not necessarily helping the people who are working for the diversity which is why cd saturdays and sundays are so it were one of the really important distinctions to make for folks who are looking for buying seeds or might not have a lot of understanding or knowledge about that is that if you see a that is open pollinated then those seeds more likely are going to be have the potential have been grown on a local level or on a regional level if their hybrid seeds then you're booking at  seeds that have been produced by a corporation and so the hybrid seeds are a way that corporations are able to keep control of those seats because the  parent lines that contribute to the creation of a hybrid seed are usually highly confidential and so the corporations spend a great deal of money invested in creating those parent lines and then they are in control of those parent lines and so similarly to what you're talking about in terms of patents and patent law and the ownership of both plants and seeds and hybrids are part of that particular system as well and while gand hybrids provide a positive role in terms of scale agriculture that helps to you know feed our population then that role of the hybrid seed is also that same rule of enticing farmers to continue we have to go back to a company and purchase those seeds and not be able to see to save those seeds easily open po seeds are a heritage and have that ability to be able to seed save those seeds and continue being able to produce seeds on a local level thank you jen that's that's really useful and like me you don't really have to understand the difference between open pollinated and hybrid but you're not have the phrase that you need when you're looking for local seeds which will add to diversity and help us be more resilient in our communities in the future the other problem with the corporate ownership of seeds is they're absolutely reckless rush to genetically modified organisms and so we already know that there are large numbers of plants that where ingesting if we use particular products but at the same time we don't necessarily know what has gone into the seeds in terms of stuff but that seed was developed over the the millennia to be like so do you have a comment on the whole g m o issue well i would say that that g m o foods are a part of the or strategy that corporations and big business employ as a way of creating something that they would think that they say is novel and something that they can then control and prevent farmers from being able to use those seeds or that to use those products in the field without having to go back to the corporation being used in the field also has a very large environmental impact way beyond just our concern with protests with ingesting something that might have been genetically modified for me the real  impact of g m o this is that is the environmental impacts and destruction of our environment destruction of the soils destruction of pollinators in need of pollinators potential health impacts r ties industrial agriculture to chemicals and that process is really the most destructive aspect of g m most in my mind and in fact if if you thought about the concept of mon culture and huge it is of no longer working and a sort of friendly way with the human species but being  aved into producing vast quantities of the same item perhaps the best example in relatively recent times of the devastation of monoculture is the irish famine because the irish would have been ok if they'd had access to different varieties of potato wood and yes that's correct so eight million people dead because somebody thought it was a brilliant idea to move away from natural methods of production and try and do things on a very large scale and that's my feeling about monoculture in general you know you look at those fields and you think about you almost think in terms of suffering because the soil is being abused and then the big chemical companies come in and they're like truck dealers because they're producing chemicals which can pull the saw oil into thinking it can produce what it produced before then what it produces is what produces not necessarily what we need so that whole thing of monoculture is one of the problems i think with the industrial farming is that not one of the big issues it most definitely is and that that mon in the use of chemicals just has so many other environmental impacts that reduces the productivity of those areas so while we've been sold a bill that says that through the use of genetics and through the use of chemicals were able to increase our production it's at the cost to future generations that we're utilizing those particular strategies and so we're stealing the soil and we're stealing the health of those environments and and and killing many of the other beneficial organisms that contribute to productivity and the result is that chemical agriculture while it's wildly in poit is not more productive than organic systems and to put it really really simply i would rather place my trust and my money and my growing and energies with local farmers who are trying to help feed as many of us as they can and play catch up after the impact of the globalization of agriculture then in the hands of a few decision makers who live very very far away from where i live that's my commitment to to to localism is that people are more accountable at the local level they're just not accountable toll and they're very far away and when i was studying economics long long ago before the i learned that one of our problems was the move from the entrepreneurial economy to the managerial economy they entrepreneurial economy is one where you actually live in the same community with the people who are your commercial supporters merchants and bankers and so on the managerial it's no longer the person who started the business and of course we've got that whole question about the business which is immortal and never does it's no longer the entrepreneur in the family it's moved into than suppression all managers who didn't have the spark of genius to start it to begin with plus which there's speculation on the commodities markets that really destructive thing yeah yeah well that's a money issue and the money issue has been a serious problem i keep coming back to potatoes i just love potatoes because it really is possible to trade potatoes on commodity futures markets they just they don't lend themselves to being used the way grains do i mean it's right there in the bible with joseph and  adds the the value to the crops now you can trade grains because you can store them easily but potatoes defeat that purpose they are very very local and in many ways yeah so they last for a while but not as long as grains they don't you know we all know from keeping potatoes too long in our pantry that they go a little soft after  right so then what you want to do is plant them well let's switch a little bit from the from the global situation and i want to talk to jenna little bit about her your your passion for farming and your involvement in the local seat growing movement so tell us how that all sort of came together well i  guess passion in terms of the seed movement i guess connects to that piece of just having that understanding that well call food means that you have to have a local seat and so those pieces around building what's truly a sustainable local food system means that you have to have that ability to have those seeds and the seeds are alive and so in that same way that within the food system one of the a number of pieces are very very important in terms of ensuring for future generations that we have that ability to have a local food system and seeds are definitely a foundation part of that and the seeds not only are they a part of our food but they're also a part of the next generation's food and the skills required in order to perpetuate that are the same with food as well which is we need to be able to teach people how to grow those seeds in order for us to maintain seeds that are important for us on a local level in our local food production and i like for people out there listening to hear a bit about how the seed production seed saving and partnerships have been growing and our area because i think we started off very much at the grassroots level with seeds i know you were involved in the founding of these explain how that movement is and saturday movement and so that came up i guess marjorie you would know how many years ago is that now that we've got cd saturdays and sundays sort of happening well i think the beginning was in vancouver gardens was the first one it was a saturday and vancouver well over thirty maybe over forty years yeah so that's started by one person which is all always delightful to remember yes as racer sharon rempel sort of the mother of that movement and and the cd saturday and sunday movement's been really important in that way in terms of just raising awareness within the community but also providing a venue where vocal seed growers have an ability to then sell their seeds to to local gardeners and local farmers and so really important in terms of the similar to a farmer's market in terms of its how it's organized and but just happening once a year  also important for folks that have that experience with farmers markets to be thinking of a cd saturday or sunday in a similar way you're supporting your local economy and you can have that relationship with your local seed grower and find out more about how they're producing seeds and where the seeds are coming from and how they're being produced and how you know having that opportunity for education around what's the best growing conditions for this particular variety because different fridays will have different aspects that they've been selected or so that they can do you particularly well for the purpose that you would like them to do well we like to buy seeds that will grow fat carrots because vat carrots last longer through the winter such great and so those carrots seeds are you're going to plant them in june rather than planting them in the early season because then those carrots are going to grow enough to get established and then you'd have overwintering carrots at that point and the same with almost any other types of vegetables that you might be buying seeds for they have their season and they have what aspects to it that you really appreciate in there and have been selected for and once a year  where we live and temperate regions because we have mainly one growing season here whereas some place like the philippines they have three or four possibilities to plant and replant and replant their very gifted way so so once a year go to seed a sunday it's fun absolutely because you learn so much and when i first started going to city sundays i don't think the seed growers were nearly as well organized as they are think if i remember correctly for this year thing up to i think there's up to fifteen different cd seed producers and businesses that will be there i probably i might have that number will bit wrong but it could be in that ballpark and they're coming from all over the island and then some of them coming from from the mainland as well i'm so all of the regional producers because i can sort of do a tour de sunday been using best practices and seed production quite different from the corner method but some people like to have it according to the rules you bet but i think that there is merit in that certification process if only to establish that the individual who believes that there again it has gone through a process of education that allows them to understand what organic actually is and so for me that connection in working in a collaborative way to not only from a verification or from a regulatory aspect but also from an education aspect because some people believe that they're growing organically if you were to look at carefully at what the what their strategies are to ensure that many of them are correct in that belief and some of them might be using strategies that aren't actually you know i met with organic standards and that's the reason why if you talk to somebody who certified organic then they have that ability to say that they've gone through that process and that the third party fair for cation as happened that how you get to new cream and about what the standards are varies from region to region so the certification standards will be different in the states and that's different than in canada which is different than in other countries but the process of getting to what the what people believe this or the standards are is an important process as well you it passed on a story which i think i vaguely remember about a little a little community librarian in pennsylvania but had seeds in would you like to tell that story and i think it is so funny and so sent well there there was a seed library that existed in pennsylvania and what and there's actually i think it's around  forty seed libraries in british columbia at the moment so one of the so i'll kill roundabout a little bit on that story in b c there's also movement around seed libraries and c libraries and  victoria actually with the victoria public library system they also have a seed library that's directly associated with the with the public library in victoria as well and so people can go there and a workshop and then they can take seeds out of the library at the victoria public library and then they can take those seeds home and they can grow them out and then collect and they have more seats they have more seeds and then they return some of the seeds to the seed library at the end of it all what's really positive about a seed library is the fact that within the community people have that ability to learn more about seed saving and the direct skills around seed saving and then to give it a whirl  their own garden and actually try out those skills and crew and then produce and refresh those seeds and then and then bring them back into the into the into the greater community as a way of both sharing and giving back but also as a part of that whole process around bulking up scenes and so you know way back in our conversation a little while ago you talked to one of the questions that you asked was how does the how does that seed system work you need to have that genetic diversity available often it's in small amounts and so when the time comes that you want to then bring that out in and use that in food production in some way you have to bulk up your seeds which means that  you have to grow them out with the purpose of just increasing the quantity of seed so that you can then in turn increase the amount of food production over time but first to have to have the quantity of seeds in order to do that and i the little library in pennsylvania they put up their seed library and people were allowed to come and then take seeds out and then bring seeds back but the regulations within the state of pennsylvania were such that there was concern that the seeds weren't meeting the regulatory standards for quality and for being disease free and so they state shut down the seed library at that point and disallowed them to continue to operate their seed fiber in the way that they had been which is people could take seeds out and then bring them back now the seed library works in a slightly different way it works more like it does the c sunday at the seed exchange that community gardens runs and that means that on people can come and exchange seeds but they're not necessarily taking them out and then bringing them back in that same way so it's pretty packages talk a little bit more about what we call the swap table so the community gardens has a number of seeds that they have available for people people that are willing to donate and then people are free to come and for a donation take seeds home with them from a variety of different sources in the community and from the community gardens themselves who have also safe seats and have some available as well but they have to get some of these carefully carefully reared cucumber seeds yeah that's such an important point because every seed has its story in the same way that we understand who our relatives are and we know the places that we've come from and we know who  a genetic parentage as well and also has a history about how they've been selected or how they've been cared for and also how those standards in terms of quality have been adhered to because  ensured that the seeds are true to type and that the seeds aren't hybrid and there weren't other interloper in the genetics and for that particular variety and and how they were able to  select for different color qualities and characteristics of the seeds as well so we don't need the local specialists to help us out certainly if if everybody was having to grow their own food from seed and and save their seed in many cases people do they would have to have a much wider set of skills wouldn't they because it's you're entering into a relationship with seeds that you bring to the place where you're going to grow just like you start a relationship between two humans and you have some some specifications so the specifications for seeds would be when where the se s how old are they exactly yeah how very important were they grown in a place where they might have crossed with other different types of varieties and so squash is a very good example of that there they are a type of plant that is ok with crossing with their neighbors and so there is a real gypsy there are and so if you were growing you know butternut squash and pumpkins in the same field in the same year and decided to save seed from either your butternuts or your pumpkins that year then the those seeds in your pumpkins and butternuts are are represent both pumpkins and butternuts in those and those new squash seeds that you're bringing and so they won't be better net or pumpkin they're going to be a little bit of both and so having that understanding about who likes to cross with who makes a very big difference to the quality recedes later because if somebody thinks that it's a butter net it event at being a pumpkin might not be quite as happy about that later on and more than that if if you buy your seeds from  learning more about seed saving is is understanding some of those type those skills and those details and having an understanding about what the work that goes into seed saving really is i'm so for people who are growers then that commitment of having if they want more than one type of squash growing out in one year then they're growing out on properties that are actually far apart and and then they're caring for crops that are isolated in terms of distance or isolated in other ways as well but that commitment is actually quite significant so when you see a seed grow or the cd sunday then the the investment of that individual in being able to have a wide variety of seeds which you'd like to be able to choose from is a fairy very significant and often the nice thing about being a person engaged in seed is it means that you have to have relationships with other growers because you're not going to be able to grow out fifty or sixty different fridays of different types of vegetables because physically it's actually very difficult to achieve that and so you have to be make buddies with other people and then you're working collaboratively to be able to have seed available many different types like any resistance movement it has to be properly organized and and we'll get back to that says and did you want to do an event up to well yes we can certainly talk about cd sunday we'll just first remind our listeners that you're listening to c h l y one a one point seven f am listener and student supported campus and community station also found of course at c h l y dot ca and today on changes marjorie stewart is talking with  executive director of food share about see the sundays so i think it's about time we gave details on cd sunday itself so it's coming up this coming sunday march sixth at k ok and lots of you will be talking during the remainder of the show about some of the other things that will be happening at c b s sunday i think has well as the seed exchanges and the the chance to purchase seeds from people who actually grow them nearby so we'll come back to all of that in just a couple of moments but we thought we'd also mention that if you're not in the ny mo or close by there are a number of other city saturday and see the sunday events taking place up and down the island and elsewhere in b c and in canada and the best way to find information on those is to go to see those of diversity and their website has tripled over you dot seeds dot  ca so and i believe i think i had it up here a minute ago yes you can actually if you just go to that they actually have a listing cd saturdays and events and there are lots of other things there as well including a section on how to save your own seeds and as general was just mentioning it's not just as simple as we might think it's like me i used to think you just for growing amounts to you just throw the seeds in the ground and they come up and then if you want to save seeds you just kind of take them and no it's not quite that simple so that's a good place to start learning and see the sunday of course is another good place to start learning because i'm sure there will be lots of people there who can explain all of the things that jim has referred to today and and go beyond that and answer your specific questions so that will be fantastic now you have some other things that food share is doing in april perhaps gen u you mentioned april seventh is a farm to school event what's that all about so stakeholders who two people that have an involvement with school food are invited to a farm to school workshop the workshop is invited erin top leaf from c r fair to come and help us in facilitating a workshop for people that are involved with school food and learn more about farm to school as  one strategy in increasing healthy eating and also increasing farmers in the local region to have connections with schools and be able to provide local food  students but and also to help with part of the education aspect in terms of where does food come from who grows the food and what does healthy eating look like within a school setting so people who are interested in farm to school programs and salad bar programs in the schools and this is an opportunity come and learn a little bit more about that and to meet other people and do problem solving here about the benefits and challenges of these types of strategies a way of networking around school food of preserving and that produces food and we have three panelists it'll be a part of the evening richard book is the former commissioner for the l a c and is going to talk about the l r as a real defender of the l r in a person who was was able to learn and understand a lot about the prevention level of addressing far farmland and preserving farmland and understand some of the ups and downs of that particular system as well and some of the the benefits and the limitations of the car and understands a lot about what's happening with the l r today harold steve's is is an activist in the lower mainland and harold is one of the founders of the a o r and he continues to be very active in the lower mainland around inky aging with the municipal governments in order to protect and preserve farmland as well and  is an elder who has a lot of experience and i've played as a connected to an operating farm in richmond that's cracked because he's one of the staves of state and he's been around his family has been around a long time and he understands what he's doing  heather pritchard will be there she is working on a project called food lands with farm folk city folk and food lands is a way of recognising that farmland has both  producing food that's agriculturally managed but also land produces food in areas that is not agriculturally managed as well so the potential for different types of managed land in contributing to food production is quite high and so you might have conservation areas on our rip or water areas on on a property you might have areas that aren't under agricultural production on a property ye they're still producing food and contributing to the health of the land that's being agriculture a manic so we're calling it a food land and looking at ways of preserving land that produces food and heather is going to talk a little bit about that boat looking towards the future and finding different models of taking land out of the retail and realty investment speculatory system and is not the same as highest and best used in terms of producing food exactly and so for future generations if we don't have land that is has an ability to produce food we're not going to have food and so now's the time for us to be preserving land for future for future food production could you give an example of food that is produced on land that's not agriculturally management has categorized different kinds of land across the province and you can get some of the very best growing land and that was what they targeted as much as they could for they act a cultural land reserve but there will always be the land doesn't arrange itself in the way that people who make maps would like to do and there will always be patches of land  land contributes to food production in different ways and so you might in terms of agriculture and const practices then quite often farmers are being encouraged to keep a certain portion of their land actually out of food production and just allow that area to kind of go to seed and but what that does is it actually attracts beneficial it helps to increase the fertility of the soil for it to be resting for a while it creates habitat for native pollinators and other types of insects that actually help the fertility and the productivity of lands that are agriculturally managed in it's in their food t what they've actually found is for some areas then farmer can actually have two thirds of their land in high production and one third not in production and actually see thought they're still able to produce as much as if they had had the full one hundred percent under agricultural production just because of the effect of beneficial insects and and pollinators in contributing to the overall production and fertility of that land the other part of your question  suzanne is if you don't have an area under agricultural production then what types of foods might come out of that land and so indigenous foods are really a part of what and medicines contribute to that so the things that we would forage normally are part of that system and so mushrooms and ned and dandy viands and chick we'd send miners lettuce and all of that of fairies black berries all the foods that we would harvester forage the foods that you know a lot of indigenous peoples have a connection to and knowledge of are all a part of that system and i think it eco forestry products is sort of a key phrase you know if you're thinking from a governmental perspective around what productivity might be in forested lands and those also contributing clued in medicines and so things like licorice fern are one of those very valuable both if you're a farmer in terms of local economy and and also as an individual if you're looking for different foods that you want to introduce into your diet what you seeds is is a cooperative of seed producers in british columbia who are working together to produce seed more on a farm scale and so with the success of c saturdays and sundays then small scale seed producers have an avenue in order to sell their seeds but economically speaking it's more reasonable for them to sell on a packet by packet level and so and that usually that's the scale of the gardener in terms of a vague ability of those particular seats but there aren't necessarily many seed producers who are producing seed on a scale that would allow a farmer to then have enough seed to then plant and integrate a locally produced seed into their farm plant and their production for a season and so b c eco seeds this sort of identified that if in order for us to have truly local food we have to have local seed that's available on a production scale for farmers and eco seed is working towards being able to provide seed on a farm scale so that some people can grow enough food for other people as well as just themselves just for themselves and on a scale that you know feeds more than just a salad here and there like that they can k seed production and seed purchase that's right the other thing about really like is many farmers are not producing seed either for their own farm operations or commercially for other farmers in learning the skills around saving seed and then what b c cosi allows is if a farmer wants to take on one or two different crops and learn those crop those seed crops and then produce seed then b c eco seed is a way of saying we have a way of being able to market and sell your seats even if you just producing one or two different types of seed and so it's a way of helping farmers increase their skill level around seeds and ensure that they're it's that they can integrate that into what the realities of the economics of farming are so if it it they need it to be able to pay money it just can't be a joy project all the things that they're up to and so this is a way of increasing sort of different markets for farmers and increasing and bulking up the quality and the quantity of seed in british columbia so it's kind of nice to know that there are some folks who are organizing at the provincial level to meet the provincial needs back to c t someday i regard it as a sort of a festival day where you never know how many groups i will be well and so n d s is taken over the canteen lunch aspect of stuff so there will be some food available for people who are hungry and like to have some blench and some snacks while they're there and that's going to help the students that some funds for programs that they're interested in moving forward on they're not going to try and sell me a crappy they are not they don't have a got some good food on the line up for sure and there of course there's the trade show so you've got lots of opportunity for purchasing everything garden related and so you've got people there who have whips from apple trees who have actually planted or different types of fruit and vegetable tree six watts of garden friday available there everything connected to garden variety types of of interest are going to be connected to the cd saturday there i think we have space for eventers and filling up pretty fast so they'll be a lot of opportunity to be there as well and there's also us always something surprising and new we had an ontario visitor last month and he said the last time i came you took me to  sunday and we got this cloth burial for lining skits and window boxes and it's better than anything we've ever had for that purpose because it didn't lose the it allowed some moisture to permeate and i was stuck because this person was very innovative he just produced his product that ere he happened to be passing through the island and he at this event is that many of them are community organizations and so there it's an opportunity to connect with different nonprofit groups that are in the community and who really want to raise people's education and connect them to other people who share their same interests and an opportunity to learn so food chair is going to be there with some information about many of the programs that we have available at food share i know that the bee club is going to be there with information about how to connect with the bee club and they'll also be a presenter at the c d c sandy event as well so one of the positive things about the event is that not only to have an opportunity to get resources but some of the resources or knowledge base and so they'll be workshops available for people who have different interests and they'll have opportunity to learn some of the skills that are really important with gardening and so some of the folks that are going to be there bill jones is coming up he's just published a new book on mushrooms and so he'll be presenting on indigenous foods he's a chef in the cowichan valley conny current will be a presenter on seeds and the master gardener program carolyn harriet is going to produce is going to be be a guest speakers well she's got a lot of experience with different aspects of gardening and also a lot of experience with seeds  well and they'll be other speakers that are part of the event as well so there's six workshops in all lots of friday and experience that people can bring in share and also learn a lot while they're there what are you looking forward to most of the day but i mean i know it's going to be a lot of hard work for you are coordinators been doing is so well organized and so i know that it it just it always goes very smoothly although i think that if you talk to her she would say the same thing and but i think what i look forward most to is the opportunity to meet the different vendors that are there and learn more about some of the skills that they bring to the different types of businesses that they have there i am a seed grower myself and so being able to connect with many of the se are there is always a joy because it's nice to see what they've got and what what they're planning for this next season so having those conversations is something that really good for the lamb trust will be there with their native plants yes so it will be there and they will they'll be there with their native plants as well you know in the in the past i've i've acquired seeds from this who are group of three women farmers very successful in victoria and i have combined their marketing and some of their administrative activity but i have three individual farming businesses and  them to be working on plant breeding and so he's really doing a lot of work in developing different fridays for specific characteristics and so he very interesting the diversity  at the entire fent in terms of the different types of seeds that will be available there through a lot of different companies for sure will farm ship farm ship will be there as far as i group so it's wonderful to see them at the farmers markets these days people you look at and you think oh obviously this person's out of a farming family been doing it all its life and say you know what i've only been doing it for three years a new set of books will be there and they've got a great deal of experience both with seeds and and with with their vegetable production farm and full circle seeds will be there from from souk and suki and so lots of lots of opportunities to for a lot of diversity where can our listeners find more information both on this and on the other food share events that you mentioned they can access us both on our website and in the name of food share dot ca and also on our facebook page and they can phone us seven five three nine three nine three that's in the two five zero area code studies students and on behalf of our production team thanks so much for joining us