you walk into this room with your own risk because it leads to the future not a future that will be but one that might because this is not a new world it is simply an extension of what b gotten itself after every dictator who was ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time it has refinements technological advances in a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom but like every one of the super states that preceded it has one iron rule logic is an enemy and truth is a menace of government we must car guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence whether sought or runs on by the military industrial complex the potential for the dis astra's rise of misplaced power exists and will persist we must never let the weight of this combination in danger our liberties our democratic process we should take nothing for granted only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compare the proper making of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goes so that security and liberty may prosper together yet in holding scientific research and discovery in respect as we should we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a a grabbing your phone logs the records don't contain the contents of the phone calls you are right so just to be clear this isn't wiretapping right but they do contain information such as phone numbers the location the duration of the call the subscriber and four years ago today and that was on the bottom of a section on the drudge report today listing all these different scandals that the government is being caught into now eavesdropping on its citizens collecting data storing yota bite centers in the middle of the desert i mean this is where it's all going to they want to collect everything so they can sift through it at their own leisure and any time they want to either frame somebody investigate somebody that they don't like maybe simply r s after somebody oh wow they don't do that do they well yes they do and now we're going to go to break but first i want to play a or just show you a short quote from one nine hundred eighty four this is from a liner that we've played many and we're going to go to break we're going to play one short commercial and then after that we're going to go into an exit of a video we put up in february of two thousand and eleven it is titled obama launches total takeover of media emergency alert system and this video has a goes back to two thousand and one alice was investigating the e a s takeover actually he was doing that back in the late ninety's but he put it in police state two thousand he put it in numerous other videos the latest one was police state or the rise of fema this is about a four three and a half four minute eggs or of that you can watch the whole video on our you tube alex jones channel it once again it's called obama launches total takeover of media the emergency alert system and we will be right back after this with our technology consultant james knox let me say he's going to knock your socks off with the information he's about to present you're ready to have your mind blown emergency alert system nine nine five allows the government to seize control the communication media our nation is at war against a far reaching that work of violence and hatred framing camps have been struck leaders eliminated plots disrupted and all those involved in the attempted act of terrorism as must know you too will be held to account think about it fifteen years ago we allowed the federal government to hard wire merge to take over systems of all major communications and media in the united states now the federal government coming out in well it's really happening bonafide tyranny is coming to our shores if you look at egypt you've witnessed how the government has seized control of the t v and radio stations but in the united states the federal government doesn't need to do that because under changes in cable systems where the federal government puts a box in at the transmission tower where they can flip a switch and shortwave towers nationwide take over those computers and put out an audio signal of whatever message they want senator john rockefeller goes by jay rockefeller is announce they need to end the internet that it's bad and that private companies will have government hubs tied into the to snoop on every without warrants and to be able to shut down the web instantly see right now the government has to get warrants and go out and seize all the here's another one america's secret police intelligence experts warn the proposal to merge two pentagon intelligence units could create an ominous new agency and the head of cyber security just resigned three weeks ago saying the pentagon and homeland security are taking over the internet and it's a threat to freedom in america to their own guys quitting chinglish takeover is happening all the radio and t v in the nation under the emergency alert system in ninety six under federal law an executive order fema is wired into the transmitters themselves and cable to take over all the systems and broadcast any time they want before the stations would tune into a signal themselves now that's out of their hands all of that's going on they got the preachers they've got the citizens they've got the military prepared for martial law and they could remotely listen to even the cell phones off that standardize the cell phones and all telecommunications companies were given nine billion dollars total to put in a whole floors for the n s a to move into the n s a doesn't tap the phone companies they are the phone companies just like fema on  cable you name it is already in control with hobbs at the transmitter site or at the satellite uplink site the last piece of equipment state two thousand by the way she i was sitting there talking to the engineer hundred ninety six a cage a f k f m and he calls members look at this alex their order to do this here's all the secret documents we're not supposed to show this to anybody and i was sitting there reading it fema takes over through this everything you do goes through this system i mean it that's what you hear when it goes bang bang bang you know this has been an emergency alert system that is a federal test going the assurer wave radio transmitters dials in and takes control of your radio station and that's what they say right here during emergencies when they're rounding people up and arresting them and shooting people their job is to keep the media shut down but i have to come to rest alex jones they hit one button the internet shuts off they hit one button and welcome back to the info wars nightly news i'm your host rob doing what you're watching there during the break is a video alex and i put together back in february two thousand and eleven concerning the e a s takeover system that has been going on well since the mid ninety's when  president bill clinton signed the telecommunications act of one nine hundred ninety six and a few days ago we got an e mail actually a done for to me this e mail and he said hey this guy might be interesting and it was it wasn't cryptic but it was a real short email kind of the point saying hey i've been in this business for nearly thirty years and everything alex is saying is spot on and he didn't really say want to come on the show i contacted him back we've exchanged e mails talked to him on the phone and our next gues because as of now a critical infrastructure consultant but since the mid eighty's he's been working you know on those boxes that you see on the side of the road those radio towers that you drive past every day the things that you've never really opened up and looked inside and we're showing some pictures of that now these are pictures that our next guest sent me of stuff that he's worked on all over texas new mexico california he'll probably correct me on a couple those but he's been all over building these infrastructure telecommunications apparatus maintaining them he knows how they work and i think what you're about to hear is going to be a lot of validation for one alex has been saying for years you're going to hear from an industry expert he's going by a pseudonym james  knox and he's been doing this for a long time but he does have an e mail set up for if anybody wants to contact him it's dark c o m o at g mail dot com and we'll put that up on the screen we start talking to him and it's james knox how you doing today james so basically this is my first question for you and then we'll get into your background and some other stuff you've done but alex jones has said this and many times he has said you know the telecommunications companies you know the n s a doesn't have to hack into him because the n is the telecommunications companies is that a true statement and how if it is how close to the truth is it and what not why you know really it would be how you want to look at that i mean you could say t associate them in the sense of do they have the same ability in some ways yes but in some ways no and a lot of that really comes down to the to the legality and the way that the administration decides to perceive the laws and in this case especially the telecommunications act and kaliya so what happens is effectively for them to monitor the packets or the data the phone call e mail whatever it really doesn't matter they do have that access they don't have access to say the billing records which is why you see this deal with variety and them going to have  n and saying hey we want all this netted data all comes out of the billing architecture of the switch but this kaliya legislation put forth a deal where there's a point of presence in every central office in the united states it's communications access for law enforcement authorities it's to protect us from the bogeyman so in essence what alex says is right but are they in business together no but are they in cahoots oh yeah and a lot of what happens is if these boys want to roll into a central office somewhere and part of our box me or anybody else work in their there's probably going to ask who they are and then if the short answer does put it all together so you know again i hope that answers the question now does it put a lot of perspective into things they're they're not exactly the same you know they're not a government entity but they are basically opening the flood gate for that information to go straight to the government whenever they want it you know but there's so much information you know now that it's getting ridiculous but let's go in your background a little bit you set your resume it's very you know you get a lot of field service  work let's see what else engineer work operations manager or why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this field and how you've seen it change since you started in the mid eighty's to what you see today well wow that's a big question  well i got into it in one nine hundred eighty four you know graduated high school early actually i finished my senior year in a month through the holes home school program and then when the service was offered to go to west point turn that down because it just seemed kind of too pansy to me so i know i know you know no disrespect intended there was just kind of my feelings at the time you know and to be an seo guy i work for a living right so anyway going forth i got into this strategic mike way of sisters repairer course which was the longest course and the military which got me do it com second a bunch of things that you know i really don't want to go into that stuff in my background because much of it is classified and is still classified as far as i know and will stay so until i die so you know i don't i really don't want to going to have so moving forward i got out after six years and then went to the commercial world now we started deploying five hundred thousand towers were built in the us i did a whole network of sixty six hot in texas down by your area spent a year and a half doing it and it encompassed from corpus christi to san antonio out to transmission switching office which is just like a central office except it's for the mobile or sailor side of the house and then that goes up so that was a huge outgrowth lower than america telecommunications law more than sixty years so obviously you're going to have a lot of things in compassing that it was the first two communications bill to have the internet into it and it is very large so why don't you kind of give us an overview of that and then the things that you saw about it you said you were speaking out about it back in the ninety's when this thing was going on and what were the things that you saw that you didn't like about it a lot of it came to pass in two thousand and it was done that's really what is going to touch everyone's life and does now touch everyone's life right so what they did when they implemented these software packages is not only a lot of money off of you the subscriber because in the end look at your phone bill look at all the taxes look at all the little fees that are on there you're saying you have no idea what you're paying for that surveillance grid i'm sorry i said you're paying for this the surveillance grid that's what we're doing right now exactly you  speak just to calais the big thing that it really saw as a problem and i was real worried about was this access because the problem with access is even though it's filtered they have access you have to give them trust and you know i don't know about you and everybody out there but i was taught and raised you never trust the government you know i'm here to help you i don't think so and i think some of that is lost in america but that's another subject so any way it created this point of presence is access point that's a physical layer interface for the authorities public servants to access every central office in america so what that basically means that when i pick my smart device smart devices in my house that are connected  to your wireless router in your home your internet access your e mail what you do what kind of porno you like if your wife watches it with you and you know you can go down that trail a lot and the only reason i use that is i want to make the point people need to understand these people are looking in your bedroom they will watch you copulate if they can and like alex says there are a bunch of sycophants and they are but i'll leave that part to alex than me so anyway but that point of president creates this it's like having a guy like me at the keyboard have to do is set up to a terminal that's the hot to this system and they can access this database any any way they want so jumping forward very rapidly today and what we see sent me this link about the zero to bite hsan d repository it's in utah and you know that's because storage has gotten so cheap it's cheaper to throw a hard drive away and destroy it than it is to take the time to  se it now so what they're going to do is they have this open pipeline and they're not spying on you they're just collecting the everything data the internet i mean just everything within the transport pipe is really can think of it as a as a piece of pipe and you know just like in plumbing and it fills up so they've got this little valve that goes in there and it reads everything about whatever slow and through there and it  of it and it stores it in this little box in utah and it's just sliced up the time in where was and whatever and you know there are certain things about it how are they just tied to and then joe analysts says  do let's say with the guy did back in two thousand and thirteen so you go back and look and they see everything that you've done everything and anything e mail analyz government corruption everything that that is that i would be an allowance would catch me on analyzing government corruption yeah and you know we could even jump from that to the n b a now and think about this ok you're going and looking at government can grow corruption ok but you know i'm a squirrelly cia christians in action is what they like to call himself when bush was in office i met a guy that kind of tried to recruit me on the cia christians in action i got a lot to wait for my service and all i was just kind of an interesting meeting i don't know if i was set up in that or look and you know checking up on me or what nonetheless it happened strange things so i just found it interesting that they chose to be so seemingly religious right about the whole thing i haven't had any contact with those folks so i couldn't tell you what their with their you know behaviors like today are things that i just and you know of course i pay attention to because in my background we're talking about the filter going from utah basically making a copy of everything that's going out into the communications tell th sphere and then you have analysts looking at that and then targeting people say they they find a person of interest well they can go in type in everything that they've ever done and bring up a list and then they can cross reference that with keywords any of that stuff and then and then pull that in and build a profile on somebody really quickly and using that information they could either plant evidence on you they make you know a lot of different things yes they and they could i mean you talk about planting evidence you know think about what can be done birth certificate but it was in there was no audio right at that spot perfect timing perfect timing that's that's kind of an obama nation and yeah exactly you know getting back to the birth certificate you know that's something that they said you know here here's this copy this came straight out of out of the books and hawaii but it's got all these layers on it the letters match up perfectly i mean total photo total bad photo shop mess we looked at it the day came out through an illustrator told the layers apart thirty different layers pop up different letters some little passages and people were on you know the defendants were out there going oh well that's just because of the way it reads the document  notes these are layers people i've looked at plenty of documents in my time and i've done plenty of photoshop in my time so i know how it works so you know that's basically what we're what we're looking at overall i want to get you on was to talk about that the government has the capability to go in and do this stuff and whether people want to believe that they want to stick their head in the center or not doesn't matter i mean you've been working on the stuff for nearly thirty years i mean how easy is it for the government to with a few keystrokes find out who you are where you live what you're doing what you like to eat what you like to buy on the web who you talk to i mean how easy is that if they have access to the infrastructure created by as easy as sitting in front of a terminal and typing in your name or whatever keywords i want to search for and within that fast i'm going to get hits whatever it is just like doing a google search except i'm  searching data points where actual intel that exists on hard drives in some or posits or somewhere you know and you've got a database of analysts it's creating this huge database and i you know i've never seen this database so i can't say it exists but i'm a libertarian and i have been for a very long time long before you know things kind of became what they were today and then i was upright you know  libertarian but a pragmatic republican one when reagan was around but i've kind of things have changed with that for me anyway but that being said people used to say to me all the time you know geez james why do you stay in this business you know you don't agree your vote i say well yeah you're not a bill you know take it apart which i probably shouldn't say in public i really don't care anymore because that's a play that's a people need to understand is yes it can be taken apart but they need to know that it exists and it's there and it's such that you don't see it it's just like you go to a casino in las vegas ever notice how just nondescript the security system is but reality it's very difficult to find a place to stand where you're not being monitored by some camera and a team of people watching you we were in doing an interview with dr russell get a shot of the roulette wheel you know we use this in and the video i pulled that out i shot for literally six seconds and somebody was standing behind me going scuse me sir what are you doing i said how did you get here so fast he goes i can't tell you that you have got to put the camera where you can and i wasn't even in the casino i was in the adjoining area where you eat and i had windows open to the casino because they want to you know they want you to see it at all times right one of the interesting things i thought is when you run the elevator the music are all soft and when the elevator opens it's the same music but it's super loud that has a big psychological effect on you i mean really it's like whoa i'm going to go gamble now you know really creepy creepy area of you know las vegas is totally creepy but going into that yeah you don't see the surveillance that they're in it's not like they're sitting there you know on the red lights you know you see those cameras but there's cameras that you're not seeing and when they're everywhere yeah i mean built the interrogation center for the school and i was kind of cool because i got to learn the army's interrogation techniques and all that and how they said it but in talking to some of the army guys you know and everybody kind of follows that anywhere the whole idea is to set the camera as such and they go around and they the engineers that do it and they set it up with the idea that they're looking for a dead spots and if they find one they put up another camera because they don't and that's the thing you know that's another big deal here that  people need to understand is these items have become throwaway items and they're all try tech items i mean this web cam that i'm communicating over now my wife just bought yesterday that's one hundred dollars  p works very well plug and play you know and here i am online they didn't exist you know ten years ago that that technology wasn't around or the ones that we had no access to and it cost a fortune right yeah we didn't have access to it you know the cia would have been talking with this stuff for years and yet the government entities and i want to go to some of these articles i did send you some and we covered in the last segment i want to jump to the f b i now wants back door to all software and i'll just read the first paragraph where you have been as unhappy their communication technologies that they could not intercept and wants to require that software makers and communications companies create a backdoor so they can listen in when they desire does that make you feel  so that's another thing that people have long been fooling themselves i have always felt comfortable hiding in plain sight for one reason the constitution  never have i feared my government the way i fear my government today and knowing that i had built the systems and the networks because without what i had built none of this works it all goes away i mean you know the smart meter know all this stuff and i can i can tell you down to the screws how every one of these networks we're going to sit here and tell you how the transport systems work what the architecture  packets are you know we could strip the eastern we're going to wireshark and i can show you how can you deep packet inspection i can do all that stuff right here all i need is the access you know matter of fact about five miles a crow flies from here  right there i myself with wireshark and a bunch of hard drives could see that i could drive every bit of data that goes through those objects i even know ways to do it without them finding out that i'm doing it and how many of you are there out there that have been doing this i could do this well we're it's kind of weird  know more dead people than i do a life you will anymore in this business and that really is the truth but then i did a lot of tower climbing too and i can very much tell you stories about a you know he's about one guy a year you know you know falls off the tower somehow and dies you know as i actually get to the bus dangers in the world i thought that way because for me it was not fun but fun but right i should send you some pictures of that it's pretty cool oh i be is the billing right there and it was back on target no go ahead what's your what's your take on that article and you know the fact that this information is now starting to come out more and more research you know before nobody would ever talk about the stuff it was you're crazy now it's coming out right and i think it's because it's too big you know if you could hide it before because it was true but once they started using it in the daily basis how do they hide it and you know another thing just to kind of throw in your i don't know if people know that facebook is publicly funded by i guess to the cia yeah now we've covered them i would recommend here see this is the point this is what i built the undernet that this rides on so i've known this is existed in this capabilities existed since the clia infrastructure was implemented so there's no surprise here but the surprise is always been getting people to understand that this exists and use it people go but they're not going to use it for bad things it's ok it's only only for terror that's yeah exactly and that's what they're selling it for if you believe there's a buggy man no you know it's kind of like going to and i'm probably going to take a hit for this one but i just such a big deal it should be there should be to do what they want we should be do we want you know if they play but it's turned into a divisive issue to get people to start turning on each other right ok and what i was going to say with that and this is the big deal to me i think it side to me that's a side that's it's flat diversion because i want to it's distracts you from the real issue and the real issue is that you have no freedom big brother is here big brother lives in your house if you used you know once we're off line and not doing this my webcam will be unplugged all right exactly if you want to get away from your cell phone wrap it into a full right if if the batteries out of it it still has  capacitor and it allowed to work for a certain period of time so anyway i guess what i'm really trying to say is that people need to believe this i mean if you like i can explain deeper but i kind of start to like i'm repeating myself well i want to go back to do things you were touching upon one the facebook cia angle sean parker one of the co founders of facebook before it took off big when he was sixteen years old he got busted for hacking who is even is it a by the cia exactly and what does he do he forms napster which is this impede three technology that nobody was using at the time and we're supposed to believe a kid in a dorm came up with this algorithm and able  to send the stuff back and forth any help from anybody at all and then we see him and then he shows up next to facebook when it's taken off he just happens to be there i mean we're supposed to believe that this is just so he's the only guy that could do this and you know he kind of looks like a cia you know starting off is he who was handled and then he becomes a handler now i can't prove any of that i don't know if any of that's true but that's what it looks like from the surface and then you see all the other facebook n s a ties going out there and you know it just makes you wonder and they have the big thing with their i p o it tanks but the guys cash out make a lot of money and you know it's just over and over again they seem to just have you know the golden gloves with every situation and your time how they're spying on you through your homeowner go to this article cia chief will spy on you through your dishwasher yes it was david petraeus talking about the cia director he was talking about you know these these new things that they're going to just go in and through broad broadband over power line yes yes that's that's a big thing they have lights they can communicate same architecture so basically the the the ac network in your house becomes a communications network right and all they're doing is taking and modulating a signal on to the sixty hertz signal exists on the power line and they i know i can even turn a scammer on so if i move my head you know the closest honestly follow me that goes i mean that goes back to we were looking at another article a few years ago about police stations were getting outfitted with these special light systems and the lights would actually flicker at rates than the regular the humans would notice this but computers could read the flicker and it could control the temperature it could do all the stuff just through the lights flickering on and off it set up like a little b type code that censors would read so this could be done actually that would be just like a teletype machine and they would use it would just basically be a visual frequency shift keeping yeah there you go i mean you know the technicals are kind of to have you on again very interesting we talk about smart meters next time you want to come on talk about that oh sure we delay to talk about that on monday very interesting lady but i want to end it with you know today is actually the sixty fourth anniversary of the printing of one thousand nine hundred four and i think it's apropos that we've got builder bird trying to hold secret meetings over across the pond in england you happen to contact us this week to talk about the very spy hubs that are set up and paid for by us and we don't even realize it or it's just something that you can't believe it's so fantastic and here you are somebody who's built these things for thirty years saying hey it's all true i mean what world are we living in now by my reckoning be afraid be very afraid because we have a bunch of not so highly intelligent and i'm not sure we can trust their motives individuals that have access to these systems and they have access to everything i mean you know like you're saying rob and this is what people really need to stop and think about is when somebody can access this like facebook and  facebook you know becomes this you know you're giving it to him for free you're going on what you do in your life and a person can go on there and if they're looking and if they have access to these more things you know the things that you think they don't know i think they can sit there for an hour or two and figure out what your political beliefs are you know what your sexual bent is what kind of food you like to see what kind of sports you're into where you shop how often you talk on the phone you know on and on and on within a  couple hours they know who you are and you don't eat you know you don't even know they went and looked at yeah it's very scary i want to be the final closing thoughts before we go today's been a great interview this is james knox and he's a critical you know radio all the way up to the large fiberoptics networks right last large network i did just to kind of maybe it's so people know that you know i'm not kidding and i am who i say i am no i'm not using my real name but that's because my name's kind of weird there's only one of me in the world james is my first name well anyway but you know if anybody wants to contact me i set up that e mail just for that purpose for any reason you so i'll let you take it from there if i had gone through and clean my fifty and want to run it i think actually it's up there on the shelf i don't know if you can see it can you see it up there i could see the for play and show and tell right you'll like this one oh yeah yeah this is this is a kember nineteen eleven or clips oh nice i like the trigger that's cool shoot off my deck off and i have a twenty two that sits in the kitchen on the shelf literally i just open the door and i play golf a few rounds and there's a bunch of holes in the tree has been gone for a while but i have this neighbor issue this guy because he was illegally accessing my property and a he didn't want to do it the right way so i just had to close it off long story short so he's harassed me i'm sure there's some calling i guess the cops figure that shows up at nine thirty ten o'clock at night my wife is in bed my wolf i have an arctic wolf and she alerted me because she speaks and you know she has different barks so i grab this fiscal here which has a light in a laser and i walk outside i'm walking out the deck i come up like this i turn around and i'm like ok who are you at that point i have this officer back and i don't know who he is because i can't see him next thing i see is a flashlight in my face and him gone or the sheriff who are you put the light down i can't see you on the sheriff i can't see you but the light down he would put it down i put my weapon down and drop the light and then he tells me to come there and i'm thinking  seen enough interactions with the old fish bowls ran in our individual so i basically very loudly said no i'm going in the house after that my wife i asked my wife to call the sheriff's office and find out what was going on it turns out they came to find out if i was shooting safely because somebody had called three days previously because they heard high powered rapid fire which i guess means that it's more dangerous  well turns out he talks to my wife yesterday and as long as my wife swore that second member jim was being a good boy he wouldn't bother us any more because he didn't want us to feel like we were on trial oh how nice of him you know on your own property even you know yeah you know it was we had a saying in the army and both he bend over here comes  again we're going to leave it at that has been a great interview very interesting person and we didn't even touch and i don't think we have discretion service of where you know this country is headed especially in that big brother orwellian that works oh absolutely you know that's that's another under network of it's own right right yeah and that's just one of the government can go we're cutting everything off and you know they're going to video games are going to do it online basically any mode of communication is out there have to think is you're the big daddy spider and you've got your little baby spiders everywhere right and you've got you've got the main control panel or terminal so it comes to you c shut off individuals you care start off central offices you can shut off the main transport hubs one two you know whatever you want to do you could even do it with scripts so that it was a fully automated process so the point i'm trying to make it shut it all down once but it also could be disrupted in any number of ways and actually it could be very easily disrupted and then they turn around and say hey it was a terrorist attack yeah  control it all it's just i just thought maybe we should just at least hit that internet kill switch to know that that's good i mean there's so many different facets to this this issue of communication are now communicate because yeah while we have the access to talk via sky video and all that they're recording all this they're making a record all this but i think it's good that you're speaking out now and i encourage people to contact you if they got any questions and you know become a voice out there because we need more people like you to stand up and say hey and send me say no rachel maddow yeah you know i better not even go there i'll say something that i probably shouldn't exactly hey we'll talk to you again soon it's been great thanks for coming on the show he really enjoyed it and you know i was a little nervous because i'm sure they're going to go hit my file at langley now but i honestly don't care i had a lot of fun i'd love to do it again and yeah there's a lot to talk about you know people don't check it out talk to me you know contact me none of this is classified it's all out there and everything i'm telling you is the straight up truth you know all right well thanks for coming on the show well that was james happy birthday in one thousand nine hundred four as well and in sixty four years old and what have we learned that the government is further inquiry encroaching on our civil liberties on our privacy while they want privacy while they don't want to talk about what they're doing they want to know everything you're devote that talent in a more constructive way so we can get at the minds of these young people one thing that i think is clear with young people and with adults as well is that we just have to be repetitive about this it's not enough to simply have a catchy a on a monday and then only do it every monday we need to do this every day of the week and just really brainwash people we have to pass the bill so that you can find what is away from the controversy because we've always had kind of a private notion of children your kid is yours and totally your responsibility we i haven't had a very collective notion of these are our children so part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents