paperback is a paperback story of his life and we're going to be talking some of this maybe show some pictures but paul welcome so much conversations thank you howard it's great to be here now tell me young man what is your your your your your background where you were forth and so and so your family was a happy want to know for their what was a deal you know how they were basically we were we were brought up catholic and i was an altar boy yeah a private catholic school and we learned from encouraging you to get educated yes were they were you your parents well professional or not or what they weren't my fathers sisters were all professional but my father was and he chose to go out to hollywood run away from his father's business my grandfather my money my father's father was a contractor in boston contra builders and yes and he started off on mission hill the same place where kennedy started and all of that so you know that was that was he didn't want my myself and anyway so and then you got into school and indian you going to school and your brothers and sisters and you had one because i saw a picture of your brother and i'm just a big family there were six of us yeah yeah sixty six three boys and three girls and was it a happy family basically yeah i mean we had arrived like all families there are always rivalries and my brother and i want time cause to big you up even my parents were having friends over for an evening entertaining in the dining room and our bedroom was over the dining room my brother and i were wrestling and we practically knocked the ceiling down we had bunk bed yeah so my dad who was really wasn't he never we never got the strap very punishment from my family between that between the strap there and then i had sisters of st joseph joseph and priest so yeah there was also a lot of there was no monkey business that was really very a lot and you were taught the work ethic absolutely like everybody learns that now it's a direction for going to law school or something like that and everything like that yeah well ok so i hear you've done some you got interesting stuff and if you spent a good part of your life there are of you moved around or i stayed there until my senior year of college and where did you go to college boston university last and what do you study there were boston is the only thing it was an interesting program able to integrate liberal arts i took some business courses but i also took we had a school of communications we had our own closed circuit television station i see and so i was able to do a lot of that kind that's where i got my appetite wet for theater and in high school i was in the senior class be there and i was there i was the i was the star of the show and i was a what do you call it a show off i was showing off but and they made a recording of this is indicative of the times because i was born in thirty five so you know i was along with a whole different world and everything but at the time in this is you know the church the mothers and there you have a junior high school pageant is such an event you know because the lady the little boys and girls are on the stage acting and it's such an event of a coming out kind of event and and there was a woman there who was one of the teachers they were all sweet and everything and she made a recording of it and she was doing it for the mothers i am for the families mothers you know of the young kids and it was recorded on a wire there was a wire that was recording it a copper wire they didn't have tape i guess i don't know if they did but i know we never were able to get that into a format like we can do so well now you know with an m pay for whatever everything falls everything's at our handle now but it was so there but i remember  condition is improving or what but that's another issue that's a whole other conversation where you are you are in you are in ok go and you talk i'm talking too much no i i will graduate the last couple of years that i was in college i spent a lot of time in new york i got the bug and i had friends who used to nip out of boston to new york i did i did you were there weren't enough action in boston it was a lot going on in boston well i really was  and what age are you talking about when you would nipped off to new york city was that th no no what age were you oh i was like twenty or twenty you weren't like thirteen now it was too big a jump to do it she took me one night to morocco and it was the th anniversary of earl wilson who was a big deal and this kind of defines ethel everybody was getting up to pay tribute to earl and a lot of big celebrities a lot of all show business was at the ok well he loved people that were real she didn't like any phony business at all she was a very real down to earth person well that's good that we're now what about that that's the thing down to earth doing get down to earth people back in the fields of iowa where there are lots of cow and stuff and they're not all corrupted by the urban environment down to earth what do we mean and mean down they say it like it is my favorite human beings for ever it's worth i do believe i've felt like this almost all my whole life and everything i'm not sure about when i was at bat thing but in terms of age my for i think that's my favorite the right i just can't get they they can just wrap me right around think those little kids are so do you understand what i know exactly which is i think we should all be like that or we can afford to be like honest we learn to be guarded and that's an interesting thing that may have been a survival instinct you know or so why do we have to get to be like us when we could all be like you or could be say could we have a world safe to be like i think is like innocence you know i think you know i i've known people who hate children at least claimed eight children can you imagine anybody who hates children well i mean how can anybody hate a beautiful little child like that a lot about the person well maybe he that may be and i am going to say what is that anyway yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i know but i also think it's as we move along yeah as we get older as we as bittorrent and hopefully grow continue to grow i think a lot of the trappings do go away we become more open and honest because once the pingers are you i think it's possible it's amazing you think we  somebody of a psychiatric background i do believe it i don't quite know we're not god i think just builds up all kinds of defenses and good defenses and contracts and things and fighting in this and that fighting over money and things like that and everything that the child has no thought there just as i had what we can't be honest like that we would be just eaten up by a world that is very vicious i mean that's a particular way of seeing the adult world i think it's real it's real psychological term they're going to be more happy if what people what is that that makes people happy is something that should be given serious attention by our leaders and byron's to show our in fact  goal not to be making a lot of money or winning at this in that are doing this and that in every or no and a generic sense what it is that makes a person happy it would vary wouldn't it them get with it can you know or something they or or the things like out of dickens when you had little little baby little do you know infants going out and having to do all kinds of terrible things in the material work because it was so gr well it's delicious james joyce has a thing i say it all the time james joyce said history is a nightmare and one could add their own adverse or something of injustice from which we're attempting to awaken do you think the thing is things are getting better with time if you look back over the whole course of the human experience or what's your thought on that maybe that's too deep a question to go into at this know as dickens said in the that was the best of times it was arrested times is not the best of times but i think i think it's important to just try and be see the positive see the good because we have a lot of good i mean this this country of ours that we've been fortunate enough to be brought up in has a lot of good i said a lot of good i mean with with whatever is wrong i i put the scale and i say there's a lot that's right you know we're able there  think the way things are right now i think it's a challenge i i see young person and we were both you know so many opportunities available to us well young people today the challenge is a very different than they were you think so today is six is from a very wealthy family or is in the th stream we gifted with the technology because everything today you have to have the skills that knowledge of technological skills in order to survive in the world we live in today you know it is you know the work place demands it really and all these young people that are studying computer science and really working at it and have a feeling for it i'm a young fellow he's not as young as he was but he started with me was twenty three and yeah he still works for me works remotely now because he went back to rochester as a wonderful job but when he was young the start of a mere twenty three what were you doing that he worked with you on well i day yeah right now so i was just telling josie before the interview and i'm planning to go up to rochester where yes as home was spend a few days having an intensive workshop there to kind of both myself up even more because if necessary can do university did you do some university training and what we're like in your twenty's and thirty's and you're coming into your life what were you up to and what was your motivation for getting up in the morning or what well your lifestyle your life's you were appointed where you were acquitted for you know well you're in your makeup yeah i kind of came naturally to me but i was basically is go for i mean i had to do i wasn't an executive or anything i'm just you know it was a big agency know i guess i wouldn't know that because that's all anyway yeah so yeah i was there briefly and then i moved from there and moved around a lot the st year and i finally settled in the west village on washington see ok yeah and one of the models didn't show up but ended up using me as a model and i could see that and that's how i have what they call good features don't you think well yeah so i was very lucky that paul newman or something you mean that is we were i was brought up with that and that's not you know you know that you know pay attention to that it's all about i mean look learning and growing is that what you were brought up with you know the world pays a lot of attention will plays well out of a pretty boy so now oh ok i'm sorry thank you you know least have signed genesis island now you got some sort of noise the name of the film was a coalition of one and i played the the president of the senate and that's who i was in that clip that you saw there then the sound guy didn't if you know what i know it's on your website and it was done right and it's really good the problem is here with yeah so anyway that was it gang it we didn't hear the voice in the had all these big tables good signs of beer and you would go there and they had this it was like a rascal and they did singing it would be singing and we would go there and after a couple of pints of beer everybody thought they were caruso or maria collins that everybody would sing the old songs you know al jolson all that kind of i want people do not sing anymore they used to there's no place in new york new york city and there's no place that anybody will sing like the customer is not just go and listen to somebody who's a pro but they were just go and lock arms and see you know like you know what i'm talking to you how come there's none of that spirit anymore well why don't we do it did you ever you think so you know what i'm talking i do but i wanted to say that i spent a lot of time in detroit did you really hear when i was when i was modeling the agencies i was with we had a contract to go there and we photographed the cars all the what i what i call myself i mean the thing that i did the longest was work as a businessman i worked in the fashion business i really fortunate enough to run companies they traveled all over the country with this somebody in the fashion business do i mean what is i don't understand it at all what do you have to what skills do after you have to fashion i don't think men care about fashion men are sort of like dumb animals they go around they have no taste in their women really have a sense of fashion there's these magazines are all don't you think i mean you know men are slobs you know i mean there are compared to what women have all the class when it comes to being concerned with that it seems to me to do years ago and men are you know couples are having children in the men are staying home and the women are going to work and it's a whole different ball game and think so things are really changing well and so the old boys school so you were in you were you were doing management also yes did you run your own company where you have an think attached to your name is enter upon your eye that whenever you start something up and everything is if you've got that part of your background when i left the fashion business i didn't want to do that no longer i had a i had a great last job i had was like my own business so i left that and i went into i became an entity dealer and i my st venture was a shop i had a shop in springfield  although how did it work you had to grab or you travel around in a trailer with a bunch of stuff in the trailer how does it work i'd be curious how did that work you know because that's a lot of history and a lot of stories are tied up in that it seems to me it's a very noble thing well it's something that i was always interested in started off i started off going to brimfield which is a big market where i would do a lot of buying he said in new york in massachusetts in matthew pennsylvania where there were also big markets that i would go to i started going to florida and then i graduated i was saying that you would go with a lot of things how does that go i mean no tell me how it works you have to have i would i would go and buy and bring whatever i bought i would bring back to market and i would sell it but you had a physical place where you were located somewhere where you brought all the stuff to how does it work i don't know how we're you know i had a storage place where i kept my store things we didn't have shop where you would sell things michelin had a shop and i closed the shop ok here in springfield massachusetts  and then after that i decided to come back to new york and i started i actually started a flea market that her and her printer a little thing for one that takes a lot of got three of us started it was a long time ago and then i went market come from please please like a little bug yeah well i have to leave why is a company market that's a good question or maybe you don't know ok being honest with you i don't know how to differ from the general art market or the general market well it's a  you know the shops of them is the palm beach which is the fancy a show this is you know there's a lot it's all it's all different levels now you were drawn to that or you were successful in that and what skill sets did you bring to that to be successfully running or being involved with the sleeve market thing and do that go for a month or do they go for a couple of five hundred and ten years or what i did for thirty two years thirty two years is a long time so you know if what you talk and not that interested in collecting what we were think about our educational system our values i mean i you had been to those kind of shows in there absolutely one of you go through and then there's something that just perfect for somebody not for somebody else but it's not all standardised thing off the assembly line the you get at a market you know it's an interesting thing you could come up and that show they have on television if you ever seen it  of a very popular show and it's got a certain kind of quality to it that in riches the culture and to go someplace where there's going to be you're going to walk down i'll just a mix and all of sudden there's something that's perfect for you because but it's not i'm trying to get something i'm not sure is perfect for you and you can't get that at the five and dime or or the standardized things of commodities that come out of the well back trees that have made it all by no hands and nothing art or anything you know it's just a it seems to me is an interesting american or world they have that in europe too oh sure it's a why did you get the name flea you've asked me that question  but it's a very interesting part of american or world culture that kind of trading or be involving and the people involved and then i'll bet they're very interesting people they are yeah because they have to have an eye for real value y like it was like being in the workshop learning every day and yeah bad when you're dealing with human gut human beings too that would you like being in a good socialization with human beings rather than some office where you never see another person hot i'm just i'm up with the changes that come because every time you turn around they made another find that it's revolution in information in things they can add and everything was mentioned earlier i have a fellow who worked for me for several years old and he knew that  very savvy about the technology and yeah and i still fact yeah i work with him on the basis oh ok so it's a really interesting i said thirty years a long time there was a major party that was in new york and other parts of the country travelled all over only in new york for that when i did the shows the show is right there in new york or some in long island i did the shows in the hamptons and i really i kind of really graduated to that kind of march ok i'm going around  the hell of it is too interesting that's the thing now what are you up to and what do you what is the major things that engage you now and well i've gone back to do to produce my partner and i produced a musical an original musical for the state yeah three years ago i had a big part of it and we produced it was at the cherry lane theater in the village wow yeah it was for the film for the it was for the film festival and it went  wrote it's a it's about marilyn monroe who she was as a person she was really something now let's see if you mean the way i had over time yeah she air we're going to come in just in case you want to see somebody who's really really ugly you know really ugly lady this is the ugly lady you know and she gorgeous and was you know some like hot is really a funny movie that was really funny and she had it was a there was a there was a sense of a  tragic thing about her i don't know something she died when she was thirty six yeah that's not fair thirty six is not fair you know that's far too young and everything she has a lot of like or somebody is a lawyer i'm an accountant i'm a i sell cheese i do this i do you know what are you well i just i guess i would say that i'm kind of a guy who's followed lot of different roads different paths that's what i've style what about politics where you were you political or you've been political i don't mean to pry and everything well i have my views on things died in the war republican are you are you all f bright you're right you're right you're right or you know bob hope was it wasn't was a die hard republican and he never talked about his policy for audrey hepburn who i was fortunate enough to have acquaintance really really she was she was she would be interviewed and they would ask your mother politics and she her reply was always and she was a very smart lady but really her reply would be well i know but politics i'm just an actress  wait a minute yeah but i don't actually it's ok actually it's my my daughter's an actress you know she went to yale and all that and she's got a thing and i think about that acting you know like acting is rover all kind of actors would you think that's interesting that's an interesting thing because acting is you're you're teaching you're not you're not being spontaneously to what you really are you're pretending or you're lying really when you say if the biggest line in the history of the world is i love you and you don't they don't you're acting it's like what good acting is i mean you've seen enough acting to know if an actor can connect with something that's real with what it sounded god's honest truth i really sometimes think i see acting all the time by citizens if somebody if somebody has got a dog and their dog and the dog just got run over by a steamroller is flat they're going to be really upset i don't know three upset now if they're going to come and pretend their dog was rolled over by steam roller and they can con people into thinking that their dog they're going to lie is like lying like politicians you know acting you're not you're not being really yourself spontaneously i see people street walking around just absolute cademy award performance you know what i mean but it's just life yeah now what it what am i to think about that is that make me a what do you call it when somebody is really dense when it comes to that blind side something but that thing about i think i just think people are wonderful just being themselves without pretending they're pretending they're they're not telling the truth oh real that's just the system being real but you have to pretend that you're doing something is like conjuring or lying through to abstract f oh ok well i but don't you see our academy award performances in the streets of manhattan all the time i mean you know well that's reality well that's reality yeah yeah but so what is this thing about art i mean acting is so important in our culture now they're the ones who are the leading figures or the actors in the movies and everything are they are culturally so more than politicians i think they're they're they're they're we were talking do we talk do we begin is talking about university and we thought there should be a university instead of all the departments of specialization everybody's becoming so specialized in knowing how to do something and the market follow specialization and rewards specialization in practically everything great special and more specialized you are and you get a certificate you're specialized in in painting onions or what the hell ever it might be something like that then that's where ah and all the education is trying to get everybody specialized out into something as though that's got great value but it takes away from the systems thinking there's not enough systems thinking or there should be a department of everything at the university there isn't that it didn't make a joke about that at the beginning of this or did i conjure that in my memory i don't recall we didn't but we could've yeah yeah so you know and i'm sure you know what i'm saying  you and i think you know we we are that's a good point but i think the thing we have to do with going i can do is try to be the best person that i can be every day of my life and just try to be kind i have a mentor of mine who's a very close friend in fact i'm having dinner with him tonight liam and he says the most important thing is to be kind you know i don't want to be a part of negativity i think there's enough of the negativity breeds negativity i well i don't like i like that being kind but if you're in the if you got the role of i'm free bogart when you're going to hit authenticity perhaps i don't know i may be wrong and donna go i'm barking up a wrong alley or something which one should vote for somehow they don't want everything is getting so program but don't you think that people i mean the world and i travel and i think people may want that's the difference they want they want to connect with rio they want to connect with with something that's real maybe more and more people are wanting to yeah i think there has been maybe i'm just a little jaded do you feel a sense of anxiety about the fact that these guys are juggling hydrogen bombs and have the ability to wipe every single human being off the face of the map well i i i just don't go there i mean i know if i i find that it's if i went there i wouldn't be sleeping at night how about the i think of all the injustices that exist who had slavery throughout the whole damned experience we have already we still haven't we have wage slavery of all kinds of slavery people very few people are able to be really poorly engaged like a jam session as you hit the hit the high note it that they are or moments of real yak saltation and all that kind of stuff you know they don't have a chance to do that because they're just being treated like slaves by the system and it's beaten out of them i mean i think too much is there a possibility for bringing a liberation to the human spirit for everybody every cell in the body there's a one hundred trillion cells a human organism more or less that's a lot each cell is individual in each cell is connected to the whole system to understand and we're all connected and we're all connected so what i'm saying is a lot of people that are not being well served and are just having terrible starvation watching which child you're going to let starve to death or something like that and made to suffer that kind of stuff far too much you think we might have a pop possibility just we've got the possibility of extreme destruction of the whole thing being our existence in universe which we've never had in two hundred thousand years we may have a chance to liberate the whole homo sapiens species in a way where everybody is able to be doing their own thing on their own terms without being a slave of anybody else or some system that says you have to do it this way or that they can be like a whole humanity jam session hitting high c go i think it's beyond political i think we are in a very treacherous and and challenging and difficult time it's manifesting itself you know new york city is a microcosm what's going on everywhere i get it all so close together here there's so much anger here yeah much really intense anger across the world and cross the world but here we are but you're aware of that here because it's such a populated i'm sure that you you want we all have to retreat in and we charge our batteries and we you know for navigating it in this challenge is like you know you know it's but you could have been born into the th century all thank you josie and thank you and i will be coming back again tomorrow so tonin so over now for now thank you very very much ok oh thank you for that thank you for this is this mine to let you all i'm going to read it w