it's carol ricard america's wellness embassador and welcome to the well you show i'm joined today we're all wearing blue by my co host guess angel torture along bach who's known as the pain detective and julie maddox who is known as the wellness coach so welcome now just geishas your first time tuning in for the well you show one of the things you're really here to do is give people tools how to live well  and we this is the second part we actually are talking about my latest book here which is help most importantly how to help those that don't want to write and so two parts of this first part was looking at how you could see change so go back and see last show and then we're going to talk about how to be a river guide and show how you ladies do it great three rules and three rules yeah actually george is our little guy that we're help and you know these three rules are this critical to being what i call a river guide rule number one is that you have to recognize where they are and it sounds like the person you had in mind because he saw that rule number two is you have to accept them where they are not where you want them to be because we can one of the be healthy we don't want to stop smoking we can want them to stop the world whatever but really where are they doing it and this except doesn't mean agree and then the other thing is that we really want to guide  other really important thing that we don't want to do for somebody we kind of want to do them and one of my favorite quotes because because i want everybody watching us think about one person in your life that you want to change that's easy is right hold them in mind now here's what i want you to listen to me say next the gate of change can only be opened from the inside can you open your gate no no no well guess what that means a lot of stress don't even try but this is what we're going to work on in the show now was there anything special you wanted to know how did i make sure we just talk about with your special is it still just like how to get them to share a story with you all so in the hospital so i do trainings for the hospital so one emergency room nurses you know said she had a guy came in who was using p c p and he was a mess and i don't know if you're familiar with it but p c p besides enormous strength you know people can just not really be they can be kind of like not in their right mind and she described it he was calling himself as very you know profane kind of like sexual words and didn't care about people around him just his behavior was so horrible she said she waited and went to go see him when he went on to one of the medical floors and she said to him do you do you remember a thing from the emergency room and the guy said no she said it was a mess and then she kind of described to in fact what he did well you had people calling you this and he didn't care that there were kids around you know you pooped on yourself you crapped on yourself you peed on yourself you you know it she just stuck to the facts and you know what the guy said to her here's my language but whatever stay away from that shit now let me ask you all did you hear her say what he needed to do no no no just stating the facts did you hear him may even mention the word drugs or and that to say miles did this and you did that well yes and no you know i mean you you bring up a really good point is how do you kind of get but when somebody is kind of asked you what i guess is the that there are some tools that you'll need to practice to and you just talked about one of them and that is kind of communication and we've done some great shows on communication so if anybody's watching this on replay guess what go back and watch our shows we did our communication because we were did some really good shows but the other really important  word i want to kind of talk about is boundaries all right and then one of the other keys in order to be a river guide is that you've got a manage your own emotions and stress right and that isn't always so easy and if you think about that that's kind of what we've done with we did the shows on anger we've done shows on stress you know so we're not going to get the specifics but what you mentioned was the communication you know and how do you do that and so when you have somebody let's say you know you have a person who has a behavior that they feel done over and over and over again the goal is to help them so you know it's not if you want to say it's not as to me so it's really a person or sort of thing too because that's where things they hadn't taken a shower probably in a month and like no shower no month like honestly stock really bad you know and you can walk up to the person say oh julie you know you know we can kind of like i just want to throw an idea although i don't care if i'm just going to share it kind of in general term it's somebody that it's definitely like you're biting your nails but picking at the face yes to the point where years ago somebody asked me was there some third degree burns or so it has happened for so that's i mean it just goes well well you know what it also though is a you're right in a survival tool you know because sometimes that's the anxiety the way the anxiety comes out and i got to be honest with you all that that that's one of the most powerful underlying currents to really all of our behaviors is anxiety  yeah so for this person that might be like a pacifier comfort or or like somebody else would have a glass of wine or because i'm not a long time you just made me think of a great movie margin larson other woman have you ever heard of  like back in like two thousand and seven or something like that well it kind of apply so i just want to share so it was this movie about a town and this brother had his house and out in the garage his brother lived and his brother was very kind of reclusive guy he would kind of go to work and then he would come home he you know he wouldn't come spend any time with him he was very isolated just really kind of like live to himself right he go to work though we do it's work you know a little conversation at work but then just go home well turns out lars ordered a blow up doll and it became his girlfriend and he dressed it and he first except that invitation to the brother's house and he said can i bring my new girlfriend and show the whole town you know he was like what this is not right years than his right mind so he goes to talk to the doctor and you know the doctors says them well she said obviously this serves a purpose in his life right now and when he no longer needs it he'll get rid of it until the movie's about the whole town accommodating his girl oh that sounds like a great movie and you everybody kind of supports it the brothers like would know you just gotta tell them she's not real well know it to him she was real and the whole process was even the goes back to that except i accept you unconditionally you know and nonjudgmental and doesn't mean i agree but i accept that katie's so help a person like what i think i think what you've gotta do is just kind of be there to support them and trying to you know kind of help then be exposed to different things you know because you don't know what you don't know and as one of my favorite quotes in my book you don't know what you don't know until you learn it you don't know it right so we're not going to be successful and one of my other rules that you said you liked which was what was the one you said to me that all ok don't do more don't put more effort or don't let work harder than th yeah yeah yeah i lie wrong and i think about that carolina air worry day because i was doing that excessively year here and what is happening is i'm thinking of an older patient i had were and so how about julie on page eighty two which is what not to say which one of those struck you is your most favorite that a person would that i might use or yeah yeah yeah there's a you and so here's how i like to think about communication is it there's the table between us and so if i kind of push something at you or you feel like i've pushed the plate at you you're like i don't want that you know  if you just set it on the table and then it's like maybe i do maybe i don't you know but then if we never seen it there were never put anything on the table and you know and then there's that last style we talked about passive aggressive was when you put it on the table people say what's wrong with you you know how come you keep doing this you know why don't you just stop don't you see how much it hurt your mother yeah like how could  right is go to the flip side and what a couple is say help me understand yeah i've been using i i think we had a few help me understand yeah i'm confused yes or i'm confused and have you thought about it yet doesn't it i was i was thinking about you yeah yeah yeah yeah it's kind of like again think of it it's like a nice knock on the door and not slamming kind of on who are there carol how would you use it when no one is there a reason i was you know well so so my dad taught me that when you're like that what i really like and live my life with so what would happen is if i was supposed to have done something and i didn't do it right so this is this case it's not what you do it's ok you know your son says i want to be home at five o'clock and he's not doesn't call you a doesn't you know you finally you get him on the phone you and is the reason that the garbage didn't get to that and now you know why you know you have to present their i guess right there where yeah now now you other thing no that's really important about being a river how that do you notice anything inside you as well as well as just a little bit in cringing ok what would you do if somebody was doing this to you it depends on how well i know them but i might just  back a little bit ok good i'm glad you said that because this to me is about boundaries you know and if we let people here's my thing is if you would even let me get closer than is which some people do right so that you were mostly nosed to know yes my guess is you have a hard time saying no because our physical boundaries mirror our emotional boundaries and it's good that you felt like that little you know some my point with this in order to be a healthy river guys we have to have boundaries you know and that starts with our emotional boundaries but also our physical boundaries you know knowing when to let somebody else pay the consequences of their own behaviors you know i thinking of one of my patients who kept bailing her son out of cio you know when you get in trouble with a speeding tickets and i said have you ever thought about letting him spend the night in jail i see cause he might think twice the first time but because she was so over protecting you know and that's what i call the over caring over protecting that's why to be a river guide a good support you kind of know that there's kind of space between those and i also have a rule you know that you can ask yourself these three questions who am i doing it for am i doing it for them or am i doing it for me so if you're going to do something that's a guide am i doing it for that or am i doing it for me you know the other thing is you know how my going to feel it taking care of my feelings or taking care of their  feelings because sometimes we do for others because we're doing for others but if you're doing it for yourself the net ok that makes sense right you know and then and then to the boundaries and then again the other thing is is that there's a lot of our own emotions and feelings that kind of go into needing to manage this and if your anger at this person is coming out then guess what it isn't a work it really isn't a work so let me give you two examples of give real examples because you know we kind of talk about one but i want to get even more specific so let's go to george so george has health problems the doctors told him that he he needs to make some changes if he wants to be a life you know what his wife is done is try to support him now here's the other secret when she sees him making the effort she validates the effort and not the outcome so the example is george starts he gets to the gym you know and what she says to him i say julie you know what you know good work getting yourself to the gym  not the going to the gym but the getting it's on her the focus isn't on the outcome but it's more so on the work that julie did make sense you know and that's really important to be in river guide because we don't want to set the person up to be kind of looking down there it's really validating what they're doing right summer you know it's kind of how the training animals you know they train for every little bit you want to validate you know i remember having roommates and they would leave dishes in the sink which were just absolutely like i was taught just the opposite so every time they actually didn't i would say julie you know what thanks for putting the dishes away you know report and so you're validat here's the thing in order to make change we have to become different people so for you begin to reinforce that being a different person they begin to take on that identity that partly on television validation is so key because if i'm doing all this work and so it's that piece so with george doctor's appointment you know a wife comes and says you know so george was a doctor say was that just asking a question so what the doctor have to say you know not how do your appointment because that's a one word answer right good ok it's it's the open ended george said you know what your doctor say well he told me i need to stop smoking and you know take my medications no you know but i don't i don't think it's a problem oh ok well if going to the emergency room twice in six months isn't a problem what's it going to when that when does it become a problem for you when do you see it becoming a problem so you get george to identify to george when it's going to become the problem does that make sense and you know if you say well how's that my other favorite line is how's that workin for  because quite honestly the behavior that you're trying to change it may not be costing that person anything so they're going to change which then comes back to that whole point about acceptance and accepting people where they are  not where you want them to be even though it's fifty years later i was there i was never in it to say for that situation is that life threatening right well and the other thing i always say to people is this how were they when you met him because i don't know about you all but i know i've gotten in relationships i think that i was going to change somebody and i get so annoyed at some of the behavior and then i'd be like well wait a minute they were always like this why do you when i first met them and then it's like oh ok then it's the rewiring it so it's not bothering us as much because it's certainly not bothering them and so george would identify when does it become a problem when it's his health an issue you know i had somebody with drinking so i had a patient who had a sister who would always come to family functions and get drunk and then she would always make a scene you know anything to not say to her is you know you're always causing problems you know or you're always the problem at the family it be like you know after the event because that's the other thing time you can talk to people about stuff when they're right in the middle of it so after the event it would be you know associate it seemed like there was a lot of anger you know that was going on and you might come back and say yes she's always a pain in my butt or you know you know this and i say yeah you know it's interesting i've noticed that everything times that  you know things kind of get a little out of control there's alcohol involved now i'm not saying you're drinking right i think you need to stop i'm just trying to create a snapshot of where that person is so that i'm not attacking you but just nicely developed and there's a lot of our grind open up the blinders and in any kind of goes what you said you can open up a person so they can see a little more doesn't mean they're going to change but if we can get them to see it a little bit more you know and one of the ways is is i like keeping track a log you know and ask people to come in and kind of keep track so i had a lady in my workshop who said you know my daughter thinks her medication is working but it's not how do i tell her that it's not because she thinks it is and i said well what you can do is ask her on a scale of one to ten what her depression gets up to and then after two weeks you know say by the way i don't know if you're aware of this but the last two weeks the depression was always at an eight do you think is the medicine was working really good it would still be that high so you're letting her make the decision but you're not telling her it's the problem is that kind going to make a copy of this book available as a p d f because i want people to have the tools all right and so they have to go to the help book dot org and by the time this video is showing i will have that web page so that people can actually download cari of it so people could use it you know because i want you to have the tools that's what we're all about i want to thank you all for being here once again  to help those that don't want it and you know so thank you guys because we're doing a show together couldn't do without you and you know here's to living well today