here in new york city we're excited to devote our show today to exploration and celebration of the life of fidel castro the cuban people and the cuban revolution it's clear that this means looking at the complex and the magic relationship cuba has had with the united states and especially with our ideas of empire simply put empire has been defined as an aggregate of nations or people ruled over by an emperor or other powerful sovereign our government imperialism is usually coupled with the term and the seen as the policy of extending power and control of a nation over the political and economic life of other nations  the idea of an american empire and american imperialism as a political moral and military reality has often been lost or deflected into narratives of american exceptionalism the monroe doctrine manifest destiny and more recently the supposedly need for a war on terror the facts on the ground are quite different united states has over six hundred and fifty military facilities in one hundred and eighty seven countries around the world ships in every major ocean a presence on every major continent and over a one million five hundred thousand soldiers around the globe it's the uncontested military power in the world providing more weaponry and armaments than all the other developed nations combined and as the cultural and economic mover of the world in terms of shaping people's utopian desires and ideas as we revisit the life and legacy of fidel castro the radical imagination interested in how cuba's alternative narrative and revolutionary ideal spread throughout latin america the failed invasion of the bay of pigs in one thousand nine hundred and fifty one was widely celebrated as the st defeat of imperialism in the americas and suggested that a people resolve with a leader resolved had the capacity to resist intervention and be victorious in their fight for freedom many of the efforts to mobilize political and cultural change in the united states in the one thousand nine hundred and sixty s and seventy's also mirrored the radical transformation in cuba and it occurred at a time of intense debate in the united states over issues of empire and imperialism the normalization of relations or in president obama's last term and the beginning of the end of a decades long embargo united states has imposed on cuba has offered a radical imaginative historical moment in which the two countries are finally finding common ground to the advantage of both cubans and americans alike that this is happening in the backdrop of what cornell west has referred to as a radical neo fascist american administration will test all our radical military might was used in order to recreate the world in america's image in the post cold war era chomsky argues u s military interventions always illegal and unjustifiable and up accomplishing nothing more than the creation of black holes while giving rise in turn to new and ever increasing violent terrorist organizations bent on spreading their own vision of social and political order we're thrilled and very grateful to have two of the most energetic committed and articulate progresses of our time on the show today gayle walker the executive director of if go pastors for peace and jarvis tyner from the communist party usa are here to explore and celebrate the cuban people and their struggle we can all benefit from a better understanding of that struggle same but i you know cuba i mean i was thinking for jarvis would agree that you know cuba was really so right before revolution and as rightfully said that was really the only the only pa right he he had ideas of what was necessary in the absolutely and i think it's difficult you know for there really to be any credence that can be given to the idea you know that was really genuinely remorseful at the loss of this this incredible figure and what he meant for the cuban people so from the little ones to to the elders it was really quite  quite quite quite moving and that the fact that it was really not a funeral that was it wasn't the upper crust it was the regular everyday folk who had really been able to  make the revolution so you have the students and you had the farmers you had the artists the the women young people he carries through he carried through with with his ideals yeah this was and there was a shift in the world relationship of forces taking place and i think fidel no i'm understood that and i think the people of cuba were ready as described and they want they thought that would be a bell past it was real and that's why the people remain in the socialist camp and they remain reviewing their leader who contributed so much to their survival and they better look at a better life for them that's a pretty important point  you went out and and again the influence in other countries in latin america what about that huge i mean obviously if they could do it in cuba you know what can we do it in other countries in the quality probably more so than any other area of the world perhaps to america had germanic power would you say i mean it's amazing so this yeah i mean i think in many ways the reasons that the the the push for working toward normalizing relations under the obama administration was that you know he recognized that there were you know forces you know that in effect in these various other countries that the u s couldn't just continue to you know  run roughshod without there being pushback so you had the organization of american states that were saying listen you know those and whether it was in bolivia and venezuela brazil various countries of the alba countries know put an imprint that he has had on the region and will continue to have even long after his death well again that's that's a great point and where is that revolution going i mean let's be clear i mean he was an authoritarian leader i mean it wasn't a democracy in that sense yes no i mean in that sense politically so do you think that the political machinery will evolve in two party systems or what might it might form take at this point so that we have a little more opening up of the at least that political system i think you're probably right that people are wedded to an economic system that greatly benefit them but but what about the opening up of more if you will civil liberties for freedom of speech perhaps a little more i mean i wouldn't think that there's a it's certainly a different system it's a very different system than the system that operates here and i think  called the end of religious foundation for community organization pastors for peace a project that came about as a result of some of the work that we were doing in the in the region and michelle in nicaragua and el salvador and central america pushing back against ronald reagan at the times pushed for low intensity so called low intensity warfare the passes for peace project morphed into doing these friendship with caravans to cuba in to travel to cuba and to train in cuba at the latin american school of medicine just come physician get into that because that's been a huge success right there and the wonderful program doctors gradually are gone to other been in place as president since the death of well since prior to the death of the del castro that there have been certain you know changes that have taken place and to really i think look at the economy in a slightly society so i think that there are different you know changes that are happening that have been taking place in cuba and i think people would have a better understanding of that people in the united states provided they had you know the opportunity to the truth is that we now have a little system has one party that's their choice and within the party bill people can nominate members of the party or members regular people not members of party to the parliament to participate in a government to local police and so on and that representative government is greatly trumped by money in our society so while the rich are one or two pretty perceptive the population they pretty much have control of most of the us congress and most of the governors and so by virtue of controlling the st rate so we think we live in but we got a bunch for your country and flow on but the power and control is largely in the hands of the wealthy and the rich and corporations and i would say when the revolution succeeded the  defend themselves and protect of the committees of the revolution but it was a people's army people in the communities right to work who were the eyes and ears of the government and were ready to defend the government from outside invasion and they went down in trying to do it that when you look at that picture in the wall distant way and also from the perspective of what really how to really improve the lives of people who was got an interesting socialist democracy going on down there we got more people in prison think the economic policies might be again to sort of subvert pacify that socialist dream if you well i mean do you see that happening i mean i think that there are civilians there are a lot of questions that  corporate interests i mean the i mean we really we've got this trump in the white house and he says one thing one day and another thing the next and he's not really come out definitively with a new policy into that yeah yeah but you also have i think there's a guy that he's been looking to to to to do some of his cuba policy work that's saying well you know i think that we you know that there's a risk there's certain things that that that obama has done that we we want to hold on to so it hasn't quite definitively you know been a decision but but is as darkness as i think the you know the profile will be you know really in the putting as they say once those policies kind of get laid out so there's a lot of questions at this point and you know it's in my opening to is the beginning of the end of the embargo i mean what do we say about that is it is on its way out for sure is  think again we don't know who i am part of part of you know as i was mentioning there's certainly a lot more people traveling to cuba and that's and that's great and wonderful it's good for people from the u s from the united states because other other folk in other nations have been traveling to cuba viewers and so this is been a restriction that's been put in place by the u s government restricting how people go what they do while they're there who they can speak to cetera so there's certainly more loosening of some of those restrictions and people have been going down but the real solution is going to be doing away with the the licensing the fact that you know still if you if you go you you know unless you go the way that we've been we're saying it's great for people to go right but really what we need to do is to do away with those restrictions so that people can go and have the experiences for themselves the trade the not just travel but the trade can happen  know cuba to the u s u s to the cuba there's a lot that we could benefit from here in the united states from what cuba has to offer in the area of health care alone there's an incredible diabetic has an approach has a real solution to this problem just one of many different examples and we can assume that skinned get their education free of charge correct it's a wonder a great project again that fidel castro  you know in his infinite wisdom said there's a naval base we're going to convert this naval base into a a medical school the latin american school of medicine and initially it was something that was being offered to various other countries where they could send their young people to cuba to learn medicine to graduate with m d degrees to go back and practice in their communities and he eventually open that up to the folk in the united states and they need to then go back and serve their only with the understanding that right that they were there for that they go down that they get the training and return and practice medicine in these underserved communities across the u s that's a tremendous gift not only and who a lot of them couldn't get into medical school but they had a chance to go down there and studying who would have to learn spanish with no vision of i know somebody who did that and i know she's practicing medicine right here she passed well this is probably better than they normally have they should be happy very like gets into this whole area of feeling our need to feel superior yeah and privileged and racism and that i think offers a lot of analysis of why we are so resist why we've interacted with the cubans in this way we just can't tolerate that sort of success that they have because this is some sort of admission at some level that our system is not the greatest in the world and you know it's all mature it really is and it's often been said that you know that cuba is a threat and it's a for what great what a baseball player yes and the training i'm sorry just to go back i don't want to get to get lost but the training of these young people to become physicians totally free so that they graduate and many of them could not go to medical school here because they couldn't afford the half a one million a quarter of a one million dollar you know price tag becomes along with that but it can graduate debt free without the burden of that debt to be able to to provide that  care for the communities here but i didn't want to lose i don't know the business that i was that's something that's an important and spring training here but but yeah but it's either one of you know about the foundation of the economy what are we talking about here in terms of industrialization and service sectors agriculture what are we talking about in terms of money capital that is being used besides education and medical training and so on and so on what is the economic foundation of this socialist haven here well the idea also now ownership of the means of production exactly and transportation and so on well they are practicing that at the same time they have a mixed economy they do yeah ok well they consciously decided that they have to raise a stand level of people much faster and it can be done and maintain a socialist foundation to the economy and at same time in a democratic way   to make life better that's what it's all about it's not about just power or something like that it's about making life better so they're doing that night i think that it's very it's very and they're american farmers who want to sell stuff to them right then there that's a tremendous research going on down there and now the new relaxation has made it possible for for some medical people to invite them in and check and test drugs and that could be a blockade in the sense that for years there was so much pressure put on other countries to suspend trade or to suspend opportunities so certain items it's difficult for a cubit to actually get their hands on because some of those items are manufactured in the u s and part of the what has was sort of a unilateral unilateral in bargo was strengthened over the years with the torah cheli act in the helms burton and which there were efforts to try to prevent subsidiaries of u s companies that were in other countries to send those you know materials to cuba so when it comes to some of those areas that you're referring to some of those are have been dreamily difficult because of cuba's inability to to in a cost effective way get their hands on  of the people the what was the connection there between is religion and revolution and where are people now in terms of those values you want to describe a spiritual progressive i think you know was fascinating in the sense that not only in the area of health and education in culture in music and dance but it's its spiritual life is very much alive and and well and there's a lot of people who don't know that part of the work that we do with the caravans is to educate people to break that information blockade if you will  evangelists but saying that there are people here in the u s who are supportive of the interreligious foundation pastors for peace whether that comes from their faith perspective or just the belief in  supporting cuba's right to sovereignty cuba's right to be social justice social justice is at the root of the of the work there absolutely and so that there are people who have supported that work from a faith perspective and some from a completely people of conscience people of you know political radicalism and it's under this umbrella that we've all been able to kind of come together and be supportive of cuba's right to exist and and to continue but certainly to support cuba whether it's the community organization at the base civil society as well as the  church society which is been very church community which has been very alive in thriving in and supporting the people at the grassroots you know i because i was as you well know the sixty's i mean cuba fidel was just such a positive role model that the new left particular den of five with what do you say about that today and is it possible that what is it six hundred and five thousand and sixty years later that cuban revolution can now offer some of the same sort of positive role models that our young people in particular seem to be looking for i think it was very very popular among them who actually you know jordi people now country want to see the end of the embargo and they want to have be able to travel there if i tell people what i would  them to cuba with was with a group of people from the party and friends and relatives and so forth about fifteen numbers one of them under took us down there so the st place we go to is the martin luther king center and friendly and uplifting and when people go down there even if they stay in some looks real tells which they have some nice hotels down there and live that style they will still see a people a beautiful people who are living life in a sense and their own freedom and their own ability to control their destiny through this government of the people by the people and for the people which is what the government of cuba is about and free medical care and education you know black people could not be teachers and could not be done just could no high position in anything under the old regime about to stay and so on a violent man violent policies and racist policies he was black himself but practice racism and then you see the african f o cubans and always all walks of life in a still problems and things that had to be improved and worked on just ideologically politically and access to hard currency for the united states because their family tend to be white here they have to figure out how to handle that situation how to prove it and bring greater equality to everyone you know and part of  country and that's really been i think a focus for the cuban revolution in these these recent period to really the regulations on income prices price control well there are attempts to yeah housing for example yeah i mean there are different ways in which people are not readily have have access to housing so there are you know i think that there are around pricing so that as much as possible there's an opportunity for people to be able to afford to to eat and to prepare meals for their for their families so there are some of those kinds of alternative it's not capitalist it's not old style communism like soviet bloc and again sort of this experiment if you will and there it is something i think it's it's actually crucial because both systems have not worked our are highly dysfunctional you know nobody's always discovered the key cuba is ninety miles away is perfect for trading partner for us and tremendous in a way cooped up energy would you say you wanting to go beyond yes the confines of the island there as well i think it's on both sides i think the interest it would be beneficial is a win win situation i mean i've seen the new economy in china i've seen it in vietnam and i'm telling you i know there are dangers going down that kind of private corporate  road and also inviting foreign companies and joint ventures and all that but on the other hand in china one hundred and twenty minute one hundred and fifty million people have been taken out of poverty and they still got a lot to do  still difficult problems that they they reject the sort of central economy that was practice in eastern europe that's their right to their new best marx didn't tell if you don't do it one way you can do it another way you know he said he said take these theories and ideas and apply don't cream to the object of circumstance and his start period you in all of that is decisive to whether or not you are successful and so on but but with the disruption from the united states canada that way they have trade spain is a little mixed but you know the japanese seem to do a lot of trade a lot of european countries seem do a lot of tourism down there and saw but you know people from united states ninety miles away can go down there and environmental concerns are those in particular those issues part of the political consciousness that perhaps some of the some of our students and young people have i would say i would think there's there's a there's and of thriving community there's a thriving women's rights community i think that there are already in place you know respect and admiration for different sectors of society the environment so you don't see the necessarily the the challenge the you know between the say the government and these particular issues because it's sort of