well ok to you beginning with care and where we celebrate the creativity courage and wisdom of people creating change we highlight those who charge you pounds make new life and career choices and face turning points national association of the national society of hispanic m b a that's right so thank you so much for appearing on the show my pleasure thank you can we have we met in june and immediately when you told me that you have authored books on leadership i said i have to have you and i'm so pleased we're going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects and i know one of yours as well on leadership yes so tell us a little bit about why you wrote books on leadership there's a little bit of a story behind that starts with a bit of a set story my mom who's now passed away of cancer some many years ago was first diagnosed with cancer and i was in work she was referring to some some fictional work that i've never published as a hobby and i said to her mom come on why my work sucks and she goes i have read worst and i said you  you to get it done and i said well if you want me to write something i know i'm going to write something about leadership because i think i have something to say about that she said i don't care if you write a comic book i want you to get it done so that that's what prompted the first book there was a leader leadership with a purpose and i spent many hours on airplanes because i spent a lot of time on airplanes great writing and in transcribing and writing someone transcribing and also he was able to publish the first book the legacy leader leadership with a  good reception and the concept was was was so unique enough new enough and my daughters who were young children of the time were excited that he had written a book ok so it had a motivational effect on them as well right and that's what started the  and it also then covers what i think the mechanics of leadership are and those are very subject that right you you're right from your experience you're right from your from what you think a good leader is and right and what a good leader is not and then and then one day i am sitting there with my colleagues and johnson and johnson where i was working at the time and we started talking about you know the project we had just finished called project red hand it was a really cool project that that's something pretty impressive and that led to the second book breakthrough thinking the legacy leaders role driving innovation and then a few years later we're sitting there again talking at another cafeteria johnson and johnson and we were lamenting about how our leaders above us were losing their way we reviews and i was read more into story format i used some interesting characters and funny stories and and then a few years later i said well let's see we've got the mechanics of leadership we've got how to apply them to drive breakthrough thinking and i we've got what not to forget as you grow in your career as a leader what's next and what became next was a sequel of that book with the same characters and i wrote the leader in the  wonderful right that's wonderful so the legacy part let's talk about that why you chose that because i love that as an umbrella because what you're leaving behind is what i think of a legacy is that what you write the the the entire purpose of leadership is to think about what legacy you will leave behind it's not an option right you will be remembered for something i will be remembered for something whether it's by children our spouses our friends our family our colleagues in some cases history books but you will be leaving something behind that's not a child that's not a choice as an option the only choice or option is what will that be yes right and honestly wish i did this and think how do i want to be remembered then my actions and my behaviors both as a just as a humorous a human being absolute was certainly as a leader would be guided by by that and if you think about some of then we sat there in his in his kitchen yeah chatting about life and leadership and he's a wonderful man considered a christian man who could lead us some self the spiritual leader of his company and so reading this because i have a death wish or because i'm morbid he says but this is what i want and what i would wish my daughters or my family to say about me when i've got and he says and i read it to myself every single morning as a reminder of if i want him to say this about me that i'm going to have to behave a particular way and that's the legacy at wembley behind so for me legacy is you know what i hope my daughters my that's powerful when i hear that i think about it's aspirational and to your point you're always thinking well what do you what do i want people to say about me what my dad would always tell me is he says what do you want people to say about you when your name comes up when you're not in the room and he uses that more about reputation right but the same goes for legacy too so you know i hear that so let's talk about do you think there's a crisis in leadership today and if so what is it oh i don't know if there's a crisis in leadership it might be in some cases a vacuum ok leadership and in some industries we may have a crisis and some governments we have a crises certainly what's happening today and and and the world economy sort of what's happening with our companies and we get some great what i call pockets of excellence of companies that are clearly being led with with just phenomenal leaders who are doing phenomenal things and we've got perhaps some countries in the world of politics and so forth that we go what's going on there so i don't know that we have a crisis in leadership but i do wonder whether we have sometimes a vacuum of good integrity servant type of leadership and whether some leaders have forgotten what they're supposed to do  you're there why are you in doubt and given the opportunity to do what you do i think when we do have a failure in leadership whether it's in a company in a church in a community  miserably at times so when we go my goodness here you're just not holding up to a standard that you write about fortunately i joke i said you know in the preacher preachers he doesn't always live to what they preach but i think that's where leaders sometimes fail where where they don't think about the basic fundamental things of am i leading with integrity in my leading as a servant leader in my in my putting others first do i have the vision for the organization and can i align the people to drive in that direction am i not blinded by by greed of self interest you know because leadership is not rocket science it's not it's not the principles are complicated complicated the application of them and living to the principles can be absolutely a crises that we have crises from time to time leadership but fortune i think of a gentleman like alex course in the current c e o and chairman of johnson and johnson i happen to know him like many many other people and i've had the fortune chance to talk to him from time to time and spend some time with him this is someone who is leading johnson and johnson ably i mean the largest company health care company one of the largest if not the largest health care companies in the world one of the most respected companies in the world and i think alex marketers why we want someone that we can say yeah you can look at it i can get behind that are going to marry a woman i can get behind that person and i can i'm inspired by that person i feel good to to name him or her as my leader right right that we're missing some cases where we don't always have a leader we can look up to right admire what you touched on so look things courage is one i'd like to unpack a little bit because to be courageous in my mind means that you're willing to admit when you're wrong that you know your thinking is of wealthy you've got data in other words you can make a course correction which are are those the things you have in mind when you talk about courage or are you talking more on the honesty path have the courage to not just to admit when you're wrong that's hard enough or when you've done wrong or when your strategy is wrong that may be less hard when it's not personal but if you've done wrong personally admitting that be honest about it begging and asking for forgiveness and moving on is probably a courageous thing that we want our leaders to do and if they did it more often we buy say well they're just humans and i'm ok with that right but do they have the courage to take a risk to they have the courage to an certainly for small business owners because when they make a decision it's coming out of their pocket absolutely right and as they say when you put your money where your mouth is that's probably pretty courageous and i have the fortunate pleasure as are a group of working with a number of very courageous entrepreneurs who are making decisions every day taking some risks and putting their money behind it and putting their own reputation and time behind it that's courageous and it's easier when you're dealing with other people's money you have the louvre when you know it's not kind of personal but you know i think you hit it right on courage is about the dynamic of my courageous enough to stay true to my principles and my courageous enough to tell the truth even when it's hard on a specially when it's about myself that's courageous and right in my courageous enough to take the consequences for my  actions i hope i pass those tests will i'm still on the journey well we'll see yeah yeah you know with business oftentimes you have investors you have shareholders you have board of satisfy how do you have the integrity that you talk about satisfying all of those key stakeholders that's a that's a terrific question right i think it starts with the very  but but john f kennedy said let's go to the moon he had no idea how to get there but he said let's go right and so the it starts if you've established a vision and a mission and some what i call key imperatives similar to what we've done or group and i've done in other companies before and then you engage the entire organization the leadership team and down to them and every single employee and that vision and that's the that's the real test of a leader i can you get that engage t if you define the right mission the right vision the right direction if you set the white objectives and you've done those with certain principles in mind integrity being one of them and you get on that journey then the question is ok what other on the board of directors supporting that well they're supposed to approve the mission and the vision when the strategy c e o comes into the board of directors and presents that strategy and mission this is where i'm taking the organization presumably if they bust that part private company is a little bit harder but it is also about the results and i suppose that when the results are good nobody complains that's right it's when things sort of have a hick up low when there is a problem or when the or there's a slowdown right that's when the shareholders get a little nervous when a board of directors and then you can really determine where they would be on board with the vision and the direction or they just sort of given it some lip service now when that falls apart if if you as a leader say this is where we want to go and these are the values by which i plan to lead the organization and this is what i was to stay true to and i think that the sort of the underpinning of your question is what happens when that's in conflict or they no longer a the support better or that they be in the board of directors of the shareholders you've got a very personal decision to make at that point right you have to decide ok do i revisit the vision mission strategy direction and everything that i'm doing the way you don't want to remain stubborn to it all right if you need to make it yes we're making estimates yeah but when they are in conflict with your personal character and integrity in the values that you say you live by nobody's holding you there right so you can always make a decision to do what you need to do and that's a very loud statement that that a leader can make but typically i find that's not the case right what typically happens is that you make course corrections you make adjustments and and large the vast majority of companies are well led are led with with integrity in mind and character and people with character and they're trying to do a good job then i getting up in the morning and say i never had a question whether the integrity of the company was was a question or whether the values were wrong or whether we were not doing the right thing and i haven't felt that way i would have stayed with yeah yeah well you know i think of johnson and johnson they had two moments one that's taught in a time business school is the tylenol sure and that's a case study of what to do some direct lee actually when you find something that's wrong you admit it and you you know protect your clients your you know for brand reputation and you go through the expense a recall and that got richly rewarded absolutely because it actually increased their commitment to j and j and they got noticed is an outstanding correctly and so when you have those obstacles it's to face them head on you know be clear about what you found and address it we can think of other companies that have imploded that you know try to hide what they were doing wrong and they suffered greatly i'm thinking short of the enron's course that's the same thing when i was thinking yeah you know those those companies one that's here local in the princeton area where the c e o was not necessarily thinking oh this the shareholders of the stockholders is tyco  you know dennis i forgot his last name but he was actually jailed for a while but tyco remains they've gone through some reorganizing in spun some things off not necessarily as a result of that but i think they redefined kind of their core markets and they're doing quite well there so you know a well run company to your point can survive those hiccups if y broader leadership is strong and focused on direction yeah absolutely i mean our position should be bigger than any one leader for of course you know the leader can can set the tone and can either propel forward or it can give it a nudge backwards right absolutely washing is can they recover from that from that much backwards and then in some cases companies companies do but you mention the tunnel example and and you know reading the history books and all that and having been to change it for eighteen years it is a case study that still today everybody talks about and what a lot of people don't know about that is that some of the early analysis to change they did when the first sign i know was found in all that and the pills and i don't know all the details however they had enough information to know that it the likelihood of that being further of happening again or even brought about it was a pretty isolated case was was near zero near zero and they would have been book by most standards they would have been perfectly within their right and certainly from a regulatory perspective and even a legal perspective they need to recall the product for illegally but that wasn't what they did they chose to take the high road and to make the tougher decision right under their c e o his name was burke at the time and  day right yeah but but now here we are tylenol still the number one brand recommended by you know their trusted right that's the word hearing threats they earned that trust through their actions yeah and i think without that and that's probably what most fundamentally a leader of nice to have is the trust of the organization that doesn't mean a leader will make mistakes absolutely doesn't mean you need the leader knows everything in fact quite the opposite but that's the organization and the people around him or her trust that leader and that they will always put the interests of the organization first that they will be consistent with their behaviors that they will act in a high integrity high ethical way that they will be courageous and they will have loyalty to the absolutely absolutely we only have a few minutes but i wanted to ask you actually less than a minute what is your focus for twenty thirty well i just want to your group just not quite three months ago ok so my focus right now is is to mark on the journey with that company and drive it to to new levels of performance and and i'm excited about that and hopefully the the team is also excited about that but my focus also will be our family my family for the past many thousand miles per hour oh wow air miles per year for the past five consecutive years now that gives you a lot of perks when you're flying with united airlines yerevan airlines yes but i be happy to trade those perks and so  pretty new newly minted grandpa oh congratulations to you so i plan on spending a bit more time building that legacy absolutely and being you know more or more our present grandpa so i don't want to miss any of that of course so my has shifted i'm still very active professionally i'm still writing books i'm still speaking i'm still doing as much as i can with the local community and certainly with the hispanic community and professional community and but but family has to come first absolutely well thank you so much for being a guest on our show and i'd love to have you back when we talk about your next series of books i still all right point ready to hear thank you thank you for tuning in to new beginnings with