movie a music producer and a person has been involved in the popular music scene in a very seminal and right at the core kind of way for a very long period of time on both sides of the atlantic ocean and it's a great pleasure working curator of the most of the conversations let's see if you can take a look at what looked like got a picture i can see in the background of looks like mick jagger but it's called rock till you drop and it's just out now and we're going to be talking about this and other matters and john welcome very much a conversation age i'm fifty years old so i you know i remember when rolling stone was rolling stone which it hasn't been for quite a while but i think the we can touch it yeah and then to me that and then that developed into the theme of not just rolling stone the rock n roll in general exactly and what that has become over its you know fifty years now as it is as it is aged and the people the people of my generation the boomer rock audiences aged with that we've kind of dragged this this art form along with us as was jazz was becoming popularized by guys like louis sure then and they were they were doing things with it they were kind of proto rock and roll in the early fifty's it becomes what we are what we recognize now is rock and roll and they  keep it's jazz it's blues it's gospel the best rock'n'roll is a mix of so many to country music down there and that's that's the thing that all this does to it all the some people like him it wasn't just elvis obviously but when those southern white guys got involved with what certain thing thing that it came in a certain time and also the rock and roll of the music rock and roll let's say as opposed to jazz or say class kind of music and it's a thing of the youth or something and you've got these guys that started out and were bigger than giorgio in your book it was here yet but that's beginning was just the beginning of the king so if anybody came there after the of it is because exact what george has been talking with there became a point where there was a youth movement you know and it's it was it was distinct it was different in london and in other cities in england than it was in the united states and it was different in paris and it was different everywhere else but there was an identifiable some sort of an international phenomenon in the sixty's that was the youth movement absolutely whether or not whether it was inadvertent or not rock and roll was part of that abd it was a things that was important about it was that it was progressive it was moving forward it was young people expressing themselves in their own way what depresses me about seeing those exact same there are performers  with any good i'm not very good not like i like it was i think one of the things that happens is when when we go see people that were making records when we were fifteen or sixteen and that we're now we're forty five we're fifty we're fifty five we hear them but we're talking about a terribly i mean if you're going to talk commercial success you know rock n roll actually had a very has only had some very brief periods where where what i consider good rock or good rock n roll is ever been commercially and to me that's not a criterion worth brightest right to be so and they look when they're looking for a new music they often find in unsuspected place in the identification that the european you made with blues  by a word there's a creative force inside it then very often the most creative forces that create phenomena are not recognized by the marketplace and that's a very very consistent theme within the arts they just get wrapped up the black box got ripped off by cover bands or you know pat boone white rock hughes or something like that but i got that thing and we had at the book party we had done it you know here in new york for a while ago johnson player was here and we got a piece maybe we could show it now right johnson kirk was a great you know what up now and he what he i think if i'm not mistaken he's talking about the fact that the really creative force and there might be a general view of the society is ripped off by the over the over the the super merchandising and that's a theme that a lot of people feel now the movie set up and run and they will come back again we're talking with john strauss ball author of let's show it again rock til you drop which is out now just in the stores in georgia will melfi but let's set up that piece the john runs about fifty six minutes and then will come back thank you very much run the tape now then please thank you mean all that's happening with the technology is that the technology has advanced but you know top performers like britney spears and christina aguilera and stuff of the world are in effect they've become their own piano rolls through their instantly reproduce that but it's also a precursor or is in touch with the artist broader developments that are going on in physics and in technology and all kinds of things and we do live in a time some sort of qualitative transformation do you think well hopefully hopefully you know that what  think that those kids have definitely been rebelling against the status quo that they were growing up and i think that's a great thing is that where is that where the rebellion is coming now is in the hip hop a rock again well it has been the know the last twenty years now that's i think that's radio and south but no i'm sure there are rebellious youth out there right now making something i just don't know what it is and i may not be music maybe music is not the medium through which the rebellious youth are communicating might be times now i mean you could live in the th century two hundred years or invent a nail and now it's moving so quickly there's something about these times that are radical in the sense that there's some big change call it liberation freedom from wage slavery freedom from a lot of the traditions that that is blowing in the wind now and that we have the technological or the augmented capability is there something about these times that makes it different in a quite clearly that there are a lot of forces in the world that want to manufacture short shortcomings and when i want to manufacture scarcity for a lot of good political reasons now i know and certainly for political reason the political system is always behind the antenna condition in which all human genes involved you're coming to a new kind of capability there's going to be a lot of resistance at all the architecture of all your institutions a predicate in a in an ontological situation that is being transformed in a larger context but i mean that still doesn't take away from the fact that that's happening in the anx that is being felt within the human soul and expressed through the artistic expression is one that is saying is crying out for james joyce daedalus a history is a nightmare which i'm attempting to dialectic where and if you're going to provide you're going to say there's a change you've got the thesis into the you've got the good the good guy and the bad guys and the good guy and you're going anywhere everything can be fine as long as the car of your head but if you really transcending scarcity as he said to me the thing is that you'd be able to provide those the intellectual forces for transformation and liberation and involvement of the masses of the people that have been oppressed and so forth involving them in a way that and the ecology involving them but in a way that can be understood and gone along with by and by those who have objections to the idea that there be this change and that's where i think the louis kelso thing comes in because it's a system of economics that would have to be ultimately the impetus that's not going to come out of those circles is not going to come out of the looking like he's ruto yeah we're in access here and the run charge you have to say and we have it in the internet that certain things the one charge we have an access here is we can come make a program we can put that to a society where the profit motive and the market forces are being in a certain sense countered so do those places that one would tend to go to look for the precursors of the real the real you know and there are others within the internet you know non commercial oriented aspects of the and so even though the marketers are running this particular society the answers won't come from there anymore than they would come from the king who's in the head of the system that's running things right here or like new york the larger the larger system is i think is very good at that sequestering and corralling impulses like access t v or free publications you know it's very nice of them to support it but also support is another way responsible i mean it's appropriate that if you're going to revel in real change and not some little revolutionary something within the dialectic that's going on is earthly you know better be some guys who are making sure that that traditional system that's in place is not going to be overthrown some running so the graphics are the credits are running now so that's really but it's a good thing the thing i gave you that well i know it's very esoteric and it's hard because you know you got all the economics i think you