every forty two seconds so it is arrested for ca patient should suffer needlessly without it and no patient should ever go to jail for following the advice of a doctor joined us and learned more about the exciting science of medical marijuana welcome to salmon j t v i'm can well see executive director of the coalition for medical marijuana new jersey i'm here in the princeton community t v studio today with frank to any lawyer who is a well experienced lawyer in litigation and other areas of law by the name of frank kane so frank thank you so much for coming here today even international have to have in my practice one is a litigation and trial practice and the other is where transactional and counseling and and in my travels i have become acquainted with a number of people who are involved in cannabis friendly businesses and also more generally with the legalization movement and for a number of reasons philosophically it's a it's a cause that i agree with and i'm happy to get involved with and talk about and help support that's great frank and so now the real question is and the devil may well be in the details of what legalization would look like what legalization taxation and regulation of marijuana would actually look like we just heard from some people in in michigan and we know that in oregon some of the issues have been when when the legalization comes about the mean to you well you know there is there are a number of different approaches one could take we have you know back if you go back far enough legalization of marijuana was legal just about everywhere  and then countries gradually made it illegal and we have we have a bunch of different approaches in the in the various states where it is generally legal what what i would advocate and this is sort of from my economics background and political background i suppose is i call it free market plus so is what i would advocate so you types of protection to the public is probably warranted you know to to me i've never understood any principle distinction between marijuana and alcohol or or cigarettes or tobacco  and there are commodities where we have a whole range of consumer protection measures in place yet we we allow for the full measure of production that is we  don't we don't restrict necessarily the types of people who can produce the commodity to nonprofits or government entities that that sort of that's sort of a threshold one of the threshold questions one c about five thousand people have actually gotten access to medical marijuana in the state and there are only three alternative treatment centers that are open after five years since the the bill passed into law many people blame the  overregulation of the government on the failure of this program to adequately meet the needs of the patients of the state of new jersey the original intent and well what was in the original bill was that patien would be allowed to grow six plants now this home cultivation provision seemed to guarantee access to at least you know a floor of access to patients who who could not afford to go to an alternative rather than these alternative treatment centers that we have now that are more like they're more strictly regulated than full service for missy's so you know we have cameras watching every aspect of the growing in the alternative treatment centers that feed back into the department of health there's reste there's off types of zoning restrictions on that type of facility that an alternative treatment center could be so i think we're in general agreement that the medicinal marijuana program is over regulated to the point where it's really a program and this is something that we want to guard against him when we when we legalize marijuana while still accepting some of the benefits of regulation which is you know the control of that quality assurance  yeah i think i think there's a number of different facets to that you you know we're not over that you know i've seen the polls to a fifty one fifty two percent is about as high as own eyes they're their cops their municipal judges their municipal prosecutors and so the momentum is there but you have to you know it's to the benefit of those who would like to legalize marijuana to to assure that there are checks and balances in place so in other words the same way we do with alcohol and tobacco the message out there that it is an adult product for example would probably be wise that there are regulations in place on potency so the same way when you go to you know you go to a bar and maybe five or six years ago you know that they had the first the first exposure in this market to these high test beers from belgium and people would drink them and say why am i walking out of here so messed up well you have potency you know should be part of it you know right and also purity and and making making sure that the contaminant level if you're going to retail or if you're if it's a medical use grade that it's within certain standards so that the that the medicinal you know in the case of medicinal marijuana that that effect is delivered because then you have then you have less chance of unpleasant surprises on pleasant press you know these stereotypical you know bad fat good facts make bad law you know the the four year old who was handed a joint and so on the strength of that bad laws are passed you know right but now would this vision of legalization also allow for home cultivation i think it should be the same way and i'm going to a bunch of times i'm going analogized alcohol and tobacco because i i believe truly that the are very analogous substances you know people enjoy what there is there is literature out there that is perhaps if used to excess there is you know adverse health consequences and when people are impaired we should have limits on their ability to be driving and doing other things but you know so home use you can make home brew you can you can brew home beer right you can make moonshine however you know if you want to sell it and you're making it so strong that you know put somebody in the hospital i does not strike me as unfair it does not strike me as a nanny state or or you know unduly restrictive of personal liberties and freedoms to say you know if you're going to sell this to other people you know there's going to be labeling requirements you've got to tell people what the potency is are there contaminants and here are all is earning gradient list you know are you you know if you're r j are great and you're saying aha you know cigarettes are dead in this country but now we can make joints in that we can make marijuana cigarettes you want you want a ingredients list so you know what you're dealing with  home use is you know your are i think that if it's a legal substance you should be able to grow it yourself at home and there is a as long as you're not selling it right you know you can consume it yourself your relatives your friends come over for thanksgiving dinner they want to partake that's that's at a personal family level and you know it's sort of you're on your own and i think that analogizes very well to to make in beer in your home brew home brew you know have saluted and so what what that does what that does in addition to in my view striking an appropriate balance between regulation and personal liberty it also does wonders for the supply and demand because part of what we're seeing in colorado why have they missed the revenue targets you know because they're over taxing the legal stuff and so you arbitrage opportunities for the illegals or you know the the black market as a pejorative term but you know the nine approve their non legal sources and i think especially in the medical marijuana sphere there is no i don't see legitimate government interest if if if you have a serious condition and you know that you're capable of growing some marijuana that will help you right i don't see the the legitimate government interest and say no no no no you can't do that you have to buy ours at a premium you know that's what we've got enough of that in my opinion with you know drugs and medications on patent you know where you where at least you have the argument well to incentivize the billions of dollars of medical research that are required to get you know a cancer drug or some other kind of drug to market we give somebody a twenty year patent monopoly minutes or a patent is it's a government sanctioned monopoly for twenty years so the argument there is at least color both you don't do that then there's no incentive to to deploy that capital here you know  it's you know if it's if it's a strain that's naturally occurring you can't patent that and that's not that's not as a constitutional matter that that's not what patent is supposed to be about and so that's that's an example of an artificial restriction that now you can't you can't grow it in your backyard you've got to go to this center one of three and you've got to pay the toll which is five hundred dollars an ounce or over five hundred now which is the most expensive medical marijuana in the country in jersey and it really and that price really prices so many legitimate patients out of them out of the market just simply cannot afford that frank specially when people are on social security disability making  twelve hundred dollars a month and you know they want five hundred dollars a month for you know one ounce of marijuana it's just outrageous to use an analogy let's say you know somebody was had a nutritionist background said you know what i've got such and such a medical condition and i've done my research and through some blend of natural you know supplements i can make myself a smoothie right and i feed myself three of these a day and guess what my blood pressure drop knocked my cholesterol thinned out right so so is it do we do we want the government say none of them you can't do that you can't do that you have to you at the buy that through are inefficient overpriced inaccessible system the same thing right and you're not in the business you're not you're not conducting a trade right you're not it be different if they say ok this is so good now i want to put it in g and c all over the you know all over the place ok well now you're conducting a business and now the free market the balance for me is right you know the government has to raise money somehow you know we need roads we need an army you know we you know that's where i am on the sort of the political to me age of majority you know so many things are tied to that the ability to enter into a binding contract for example to go get your head shot off for this country that you know we let people drive at you know  lesser way in an earlier age so yeah i'm not you know the the theory behind alcohol that at age twenty one in most places is i suppose well if you make it eighteen that a fifteen year old or so are going to be getting it or those those that look eighteen they're an old looking sixteen and you know there's that societal judgment you know take to get legalization across the finish line  right so you know i had i would kick and scream about twenty one but i would think why fall out where my philosophy is it should be eighteen i think the drinking age should be eighteen and i think it is the balance a couple things i want to say about this realize that if you want to believe that fifty two percent of the populace is in favor of it right that means there's forty eight percent well meaning people out there that still have a problem with it all right and so any legalization measure you know it's going to be an all out land war you know of lobbyists and political activity and so you have to win the hearts and minds of the five or six that could be perhaps one at the stage right and so kids who are ten eleven twelve start to feel their oats they don't make good decisions i have a twelve year old right and he doesn't make good decisions right and he's not and i wouldn't want him being able to  choose to start drinking first of all i'd choose that for him that he's not going to and i certainly wouldn't want him you know in the driver's seat making a decision about these substances because they are content that there shouldn't be some care and prevention towards minors using it is is in my view politically naive and also i that's farther along the line that's a little bit more permissive than that my opinion short on how we should be other than absolutely you know there are very good reasons for keeping marijuana and other substances away from minors to lie about marijuana is and which is bu exaggeration really is you know is is doing a disservice to any prevention efforts for minors i believe well on your end you're encouraging them you know if you're if you're giving them an opportunity say you know either go work for seven dollars hour at mcdonald's or be a dealer right i make a lot of money right now why can you make a lot of money because there's an arbitrage opportunity there right because it's not you know it's not like nobody's out there to my knowledge or if they are it's a not a huge issue you know selling contraband cigarettes you know why why because there's not really an arbitrage opportunity there and and so so yeah with with with that and adolescen number one it's the same with the p m r c you know let's let's put you know explicit lyrics stickers on the albums you know so make sure they really sell you know that's the you know you're definitely ensuring that these artists that that use the f bomb all over the place are going to sell a lot of records so yeah you if it just becomes another substance that's an adult substance the lure and and glamour at least this is reduced hum ans have been getting drunk and high for at least ten thousand years so you're not going to stop that urge that tendency that desire but you're at least not going to distort things and  to say nothing of what it is a whole other topic we can get into what it does to a young person's future to have a conviction you know and that's you know perhaps i'll stop there and we can get into further talk really about some of the more reasonable regulations that we would envision with a legal and regulatory system for example use restrictions you know i mean obviously it would still be illegal to use it while you're driving it would you know there  reasonable you know because you know right now what we have in a culture of prohibition are unreadable regulations that that people just do not pay attention to they ignore them they dismiss them because they're not reasonable regulations they're not the type of regulations that americans are willing to to follow or who are there for you know just prohibition it's not reasonable but but to have to establish reasonable regulations like not using while you drive not using while you're in school unless you are a legitimate medical patient you know not using it on the job unless you are you know a legitimate medical patient these are these i think are the reasonable kind of regulations that we can look at and that we can envision with a legal model certainly in there you know the regulations we're talking about before were consumer safety and and child safety and this is public safety and it's not to to to assume we're to you know  stick your chin out to try to get some form of legalization that doesn't take account of public safety concerns and sort of almost public nuisance i mean there are people out there i  suppose i don't like smelling cigarette smoke right and there are plenty of i don't like breathing in either and there are no doubt going to be people who feel the same way about marijuana smoke and you know everybody is familiar with the regulations you know you can't smoke within x feet of a public building or you know i don't place in the summer place in ocean city new jersey and it's a dry town quote unquote what and what that means is you can't there's no you know so you know you if you're you can consume alcohol but it's in your house right and so that's that's those are regulations that municipality by municipality people live with other places at the shore are you know you can have a liquor license where there can be a b y o b and that that is a matter that's sort of the boundary for my money of where you can let the reins go to local regulation  you know so i would advocate regular decriminalization of it certainly and so if somebody is consuming it in a place where they're not supposed to whatever fine is available you know if you're supposed to go into a restaurant in ocean city with a bottle of wine or you're not supposed to consume it on the street and you can get a ticket for that you know i think a municipality is within its rights to pass that kind of regulation you know that's putting it on an equal footing to other substances that i would put in the same conceptual class i know people might differ on on that but to me that at least strikes a balance well there's only a bare majority who support legalization of marijuana now among the millennial generation the support is up to seventy percent or sixty nine or seventy percent so you know it really is a question of time rather than if you know yeah i think i think this and some people are more or less comfortable with this analogy but to talk about a political issue that maybe a decade ago was a no way that will ever happen gay marriage you know there you have a clearer in my opinion of lawyer but a clear you know equal protection issue but you had it issue that it started out legal in a patchwork of states at the state  level and then all of the sudden as people as the advocacy became more intelligent and focused and serious and more and more people in the populace say hey i know someone i have a son or daughter who is gay or i know someone who is gay and that's ok and the foundation of america isn't going to crumble right so you have that set in the in the opposition set that this  this is you legalize this is the equivalent of sodom and gomorrah and you know this will this will rot away the moral fiber of the country and so you now have twenty three states where medical marijuana is legal you have four states in the district of columbia where it's generally legal  and when when you get to the tipping point where the typical nothing against and nothing against all of the many colorful and effective advocates we have for  to do it their own way you know but when it shifts to the typical advocate they show on t v is not somebody in a crazy outfit running around and it's a person in a suit and tie not that there's a greater you know worst to that know why are we getting people got cops killed and people killed for it why are we spending all this money why we ruining young lives putting convictions  on their on their record philadelphia has gone to and when i say decriminalization i certainly want it to be legal simply legal to make and produce don't get me wrong but in terms of where it intersects with law enforcement right i i'm of the view that it should be a civil fine rather than a a crime so when in philadelphia we now have the you know if you have a certain certain quantity below you get a fifty dollar fine and what is that that is the city council making a legislative judgment that they see what marijuana does to the community what it doesn't do t community they're balancing it against do we want to cops out there spending all this effort talk to any federal judge what's what's more than the majority of your docket it's drug prosecution cases every federal judge will tell you that and they're saying you know on balance let's just make some money off it and there's a tremendous amount of money to be made to so thank you so much frank for coming here today and and thank you doug talking about what legalization of marijuana will look like in new jersey well let's hope for more information about the coalition for medical marijuana new jersey join us and our free public meetings on the second tuesday of every month at the lawrence township library in mercer county new jersey from seven to nine p snacks are served and all are welcome remember every forty two seconds someone is arrested for marijuana every forty two seconds someone is arrested for marijuana every forty two seconds somebody is ar someone is arrested for marijuana on every forty two seconds somebody is arrested for every forty two seconds someone is countries arrested for marijuana every forty two seconds someone is arrested for marijuana every forty two seconds someone is arrested for marijuana it could be you