hi welcome to all the seniors the show where we talk about senior living in elder care issues and their answers i'm your host tom callahan on our last show we discussed downsizing with graca of home to home new jersey and back today so we can discuss this should be taught start hoarding and welcome back to all the seniors thank you so much for having me tom we briefly touched on the topic of hoarding the last time so let's start over what is hoarding hoarding is literally the clinical definition of hoarding is it's a type of anxiety disorder where the individual for whatever reason just cannot l go of items and they may be items that literally have no value to them in their home but they have some type of a need to hold on to those items and it can also be hoarders there are people who are shopaholics who you know just like the word says you're constantly buying items and items and items over and over there are people who collect  collectibles who for whatever it is that they collect they have a big collection of items and lastly there are people who actually hoard animals i know there's shows on t you know how to downsize not how to downsize but called hoarders yes where they you know they go in they work with people like this and then there's also these other shows that i know there's one called american pickers that i want you guys go in they pick right homes and i'm always surprised i look at it and i go looks like a hoarding situation today because and they're people have all these in my collections and there's just stuff upon saddam and stuff shopaholic they just continuously by consumers by never throw out pretty much that's that is what a shopaholic is considered ok they just keep buying and buying and buying and it's not just any one thing it's just could be a whole variety of things it could be if it's a lady it could be handbags it could be clothing it could be shoes could be anything ok now you also mention collectors  they're not necessarily always buying stuff but they do they are these trash pickers or people that go to yard sales and it would they be falling under something like that yes definitely there are actually two types of hoarding collectors there are people who collect a certain type of item for instance i many years ago put together a collection of bell so i have a collection of bells but i got to a point where i said ok i have enough bells i don't want anymore any but then there are like whistles but the opposite side of the coin is someone who keeps buying bells whether they have the room for them or not that is one type of collector and then there are people as you say who who literally go to yard sales or pick up items on the side of the road because they think that that item has some value or that they may have some future use for it ok now explain food courting that's that's an interesting one you know because you buy food you buy to consume so they're buying food or are they not consuming the food at that is expand on this one that that is exactly right tom typically a food hoarder is someone who will buy and mass they will buy a lot of quantity of different types of foods those that they like that they think that they're going to want to use or may have use for sometime in the future versus someone like you and i who we go to the food store you know once or twice a week maybe to depending upon you know our schedules and our needs we buy what we need for that week or the two weeks thereafter whereas a hoarder is going to just buy ten bottles of juice ten boxes of cereal that's just not a i normally food buying process to buy that that much food but they' continuously buy those ten boxes and so they will and not and soon these things and not consume them that just put them on the shelf and it gives them some type of satisfaction ok what do they also do is like perishable items definitely definitely i have seen no hoarding situations where people will buy canned goods boxes of cereal or even fresh food items they'll just buy too much they'll stick it in the refrigerator and the food ends up spoiling and going bad and that can then become a sanitation issue obviously  mean we often see some cases you know i know there's been a number of cases here in new jersey where i think is the s p c a or the animal league has gone in and they have taken out fifty sixty atomists out of the house definitely definitely the s p c is one organization there's the north shore animal league is another deal nearby to where i live is animal welfare association and where he's and they will go into homes typically it's after a neighbor has contacted the local authorities because they you can see through the window that there are a lot of cats or dogs whatever the case may be or there may be an odor  house and that's typically when the authorities are called there's a movie in the same hundred seventy s it was a documentary called grey gardens yes about beals yes the fields of grey gardens where and i think that must have been hoarding situation and just a case of the house was in complete disrepair definitely that animal hoarding too as i recall yes yes ok you know when you're called to get an estimate say somebody calls you in to say where it's clean ok because it thank you become an issue for me and my own safety after that i will just like i do with a downsizing client i will sit down with the customer or the potential client and sit and talk to them why did they reach out to me what are their goals what are they looking to accomplish and so i get to know the person a little bit about what it is that they want and let them tell their story so i believe that before any client hires me that's important for me to understand their story now what problems does hoarding cause for an elderly person hoarding is definitely can be more of a serious problem for an elderly person and that as we become older sometimes we have balance problems sometimes we may have an injury we may have fall and were walking with a cane or a walker in those situations if they're a hoarder it then became become a very a serious safety factor factor because now they have so much stuff in their home that can't even maneuver down the hallway that is one safety concern for an elderly person the other is also the sanitation issue they are subjecting themselves to unsafe sanitary conditions which could affect their health as well i know over the years when i've been dealing with elderly elderly clients having gone to the house and literally walked in the front door and there's a path there's  from front door yes into a living room into another room intern other and even up the stairs and into the bedroom and maybe even have the bed is only a king sized bed only a small portion of his set aside for sleeping because of all this stuff yes that is around and what i was it was amazing it was to me it was stuff that didn't make sense it was magazines newspapers empty milk cartons right that had been cleaned out and and stored there as you said it's you know it's a sanitation concern right because sometimes things i know i was one gentleman we worked with he had disposable razors and he kept a pile of  hoarder basically my approach is to take one room at a time one pile so to speak at a time and with that individual i ask several questions  do you really need to keep this item and we go through it item by item do you have you used it in the past six months to a year that's the first question that i ask and then secondly once they say yes i really love that item or no and i really haven't used that item for quite some time i then say is there someone that you think might want it can we give it to someone or can and if that's  not an option for them then i talk to them about donating and i say to the client there are so many people out there different charities that will get really good use out of your item now who calls you  in situations like this because obviously obviously it's not the hoarder themselves sure getting called in by a family member of some sort typically typically it is a family member and there are are a couple of different scenarios it could be the hoarding has actually led to an injury where their loved one has fallen broken their hip broken their leg would ever the case may be a and they had to go into some type of medical facility for rehabilitation and in some of those cases the individual may never return home maybe most likely because of age and they have a discussion with their family ok now it's time for me to move out of my larger home and all of the stuff that's in this town into a smaller facility so yes their child or you know their relative whatever the case may be will have contacted me and asked for help and i know in a number of cases i've got into where mom has as you've described she's wound up in the hospital and rehab and then the doctors said i can't go home right now we've got into the house and we found things like mail piled up in the in the dishwasher and you know as i called it where she had cabinets upon cabinets of tasty cakes and twinkies yeah like this you know it's just it's a phenomena that happens and i used to chalk it up to the age of the person right because these were people from what was called the silent generation generation was the generation that came through the depression and they learned you know you say things right and i'm wondering if that is where a lot of the hoarding tendencies may be started i believe that that is very much so the case tom that generation came through some very hard times in our history and because of that they want to hold on to their items and they and taking the room by room do you find stuff of value when you're trying to decode or order well most definitely i mean usually all all people have some items that are real value to them what when i find something that is of real value or i think may have some sentimental value to them i definitely point it out i will talk to the client and say i found this mary i really think that this is something you might want and they may say yes or no but i i don't make the call myself that's that's not my role in helping them t usually when i do my initial walk through with the client i will go with my i pad through the home and i will take pictures sometimes fifty sixty pictures of every every angle of the home every area and if doing that i also take notes with whoever i'm going through the home whether it's the client themselves or whether it's a relative and say what about this pile what are we doing with this as you said there may be a pile of magazines those those are the questions that i need to ask as as there rob they're the company that they've called on to help i need to know exactly what to do because again it's not my decision to donate or toss out or move their belongings ok when dealing with somebody who has the hoarding issues and you've mentioned this is a psychological issue how is the best way for somebody to get the conversation started you know i want to hire and to come in to do this how should they approach the person that they're working with the best place for you don't like being sprung on somebody no no i think really the the best way is to begin the discussion by saying we have a problem here it's either a safety problem or it's a sanitation problem and it is really don't want to continue living like this it's not good for you so we need to start taking some steps now so that you can clear out your home if that's what your goal is if you're planning to stay in that home or if you're actually moving decline or the home and then prepare for the move to the new home i believe that the best way to approach it is to put the positive you always want to look forward because in doing what there they want to do life is going to be easier for them simpler more sanitary more safety so put out all the positive facts about why we're doing this ok what steps do you take to begin hoarder you said you've set down with them we've discussed it what's the next step the next step is once we've identified what is going to either be disposed off what's going to be donated or what's going to move if that's what the situation is that they're moving to a new home what i find is the easiest way to go through it there's actually two ways to approach it depending upon how the home is full of stuff sometimes people have piles of books here piles of books in another room so if the decision is ok and you can donate all of those books bring them to the library whatever the case maybe i'm a very organized person by nature so mot the way that my mind works as i go through and i get all the books wherever the case may be if i have access to them find things all my things all over but i try to do it item by item if possible if that is not possible if it's a situation like you said where there's just piles of stuff everywhere you can't get through and i have had situations like that all you can really do is baby steps so to speak you have to make little inroads at a time and i have my pile or my boxes or trash bags or things that are going to be donated and then those that are going to be trashed and or moved things you do want to be gotten rid of all the items that have been identified definitely don't need then we need to look at how we can simplify their living condition there loose rugs in the home actually for an elderly person that's very definitely a safety factor so i will go in and or i will have a a carpet company come in and the rugs need to be tacked down or they need to be removed totally depending upon the situation are they using a walker or are they using a wheelchair or are they using a cane whatever that this the the situation may pay is there any unstable furniture rocky chairs or rickety chairs or tables broken pieces of furniture need to help the client understand that that's also a safety issue what do we want to do about that we need to scale down collections and again that goes back to do you really love this item do you really need to hold on to this if the answer is well yes i love all of my bells so to speak well but where we're moving to mary there's not going to be room for all of them can we can we pick out just some of them came you just take your very favorite ones and if and this may very definitely happen they may say no i want all of them i want to move all of them then you really have to say to the individual there's not room for all of them so then it becomes a discussion about a storage facility and that that's unfortunate because then they're going to move items into a storage facility that they're going to end up paying for and they may never use those items so it very definitely can be a long process but hopefully they'll scale down their collection and one of the ways that you do that is you can say ok we're not going to get rid of that now let's put it in a box let's pack it away we're going to mark the box and we're going to revisit this in six months or so and how about if we then say at that point do we really need the can i now donate them or dispose of them whatever the case may be and he thinks that hasn't been getting that also can include food food hoarders may have twenty boxes of cereal twenty bottles of juice all with expiration dates on them that those items definitely have to be thrown out and i'm sure that the individual when it's pointed out to them will realize that it's a health issue for them they don't want to ingest those items and then the other option depending upon what they have in their home is consignment and there are companies out there that can either take it as especially in the case of furniture or collectible type items take your items on consignment and or literally put them there online auctions companies that will take your items make an online listing of all all the items that you have in your house and have an online sale and then after the items if the items don't sell after the online auction then the client and i will have a discussion or actually we have a discussion beforehand what are we going to do with these items if they haven't sold now once you've got somebody d cluttered and they've moved is there a possibility that they can go back and start hoarding again very definitely tom and i have had clients like that who are usually shopaholics or collectors of books or other types of items and yes very definitely they can begin filling up their new home i mean i definitely may not be in their life at that point i may have just been hired to help them in the initial process in the downsizing in the moving to a new facility so then it's a situation where we're over they've moved to whoever if it's an assisted living facility they may have some restrictions yes it can be a life long life long problem for an individual so the answer it sounds like isn't just to get rid of the stuff but it's also to couple that with maybe some ongoing therapy and what is the name of your company name of my company tom is home to home n j ok is there website there is home to home and jay dot com ok have a phone number my phone number is six zero nine six  five four two six x some parting advice you can give to somebody who may have a loved one who's a hoarder i would say help them as soon as possible once you see that it is a hoarding situation but mistakenly believe that the situation will rectify itself that they will come to the realization themselves that they need to do something about it because as we said early on it is a anxiety disorder so help them get some therapy and help them come to the realisation that if if they are not able to help their loved one that they need to reach out to someone like myself to help them and then they should be calling you at six six zero five four two six six and the website home to home and j dot com ok and thank you for being on the show again we appreciate your insights into not only downsizing but the hoarding issues that can arise with elderly people thank you tom with my pleasure if you do have someone with a hoarding issue  or google the word hoarders you'll find a lot of information and even some places that you can find some help for your loved one tom tell him thank you for joining me here