good morning welcome to changes the program on sustainability i'm susan gregory the coordinating producer of the show and once again marjorie stewart is here in the studio good morning margery  you have a gas perhaps you'd like to tell us about her well we're very pleased to welcome celio white not just as a guest but as a future programmer changes program celia is first question for you is i know you're a recent fairly recent graduate of what what made you choose or otherwise i graduated one year ago from undergrad and i chose vi you specifically because i was really interested in the global studies program i liked the interdisciplinary nature of it and i grew up in and imo so it's it's an economical decision as well to stand and imo and i already felt quite entrenched in my own community i was part of non governmental organizations and i wanted to continue those relationships while also expanding my educational horizons so you've told us that you chose global studies and it sounds like you chose it because there's a sort of element of a range of studies and vaguely remember from one of my children who took what then called development studies you get to touch on quite a lot of things what were some of the things that global studies touched on for you well one of the programs was anthropology and i enjoyed it so much that i decided to make anthropology my second major beside global studies other programs include economics social science or sorry they're all they're all into the category of social sciences so sociology political studies i took some electives that were also included such as religious studies english a second language and then there's core global studies courses that that bring in professors from various faculties so the foundation of the program gets this expanded repertoire of themes or ways to look at the world or or to understand what we're talking about which is mainly globalisation and the effects of globalisation on humanity in the environment and the world now when my kids where young which is a long time ago now there was the big choice for the one who was interested in development in the where old between development studies and international relations and the people who went into development studies wanted to change the world th people who went into international red relations wanted to swan around in the diplomatic service so what was bringing most of the students in your program into global studies do you think what were some of the interesting stories my experience was that the objective for being there was quite diverse and also people's motivations change over time as they as they gain new knowledge and new perspectives i was really interested in it because was a high school student i was really passionate about changing the world and interested in my place in the world and how it could have more of a positive benefit than a detrimental or deleterious effect on it other people were interested because they they're quite interested in the political side of things are interested in working for the government interested in working for non governmental organizations there's there's different streams and global studies i can't remember exactly what their themes are but some of them include human security there's more of an environmental stream that would focus more on geography there's a development stream and then i think there's something like an international relations stream and and then there's also a quite a large component within the class of students who are taking it as an elective which i really enjoyed as a global city student because i was able to team up with those numbers and see where they're coming from many international students are students in business or economics which have a very different perspective from students coming from my sort of standpoint of change the way oh yes exactly which but the global studies program also allowed me to reflect on my own assumptions and biases of what that means what does development mean and and developments a bit like famine has some people have their own ideas which they keep inside their heads about what it means the various ways that word is being used no it's not a play about real estate it's about how we do relationships globally that are helpful for the countries that are most in need and that are fairly organized by the countries that are not in need a tall so development money would be what we would call it money and we frequent it official development assistance and we've been our government some of us for many years to increase the canadian level of development assistance to the target set by the united nations which of course the scandinavian nations seem to have achieved but canada canada still unable to reach the target c e o did you know i don't exactly know the specific numbers are you talking about the millennium development goals actually it's earlier than that it's point seven of the point zero point zero seven of the annual g d p national national income and the other countries have reached that but canada is about as enthusiastic about that as it is about climate change and i do sing greenhouse gases i really like the topic of understanding what words mean like feminism and development and i think that both of those words could possibly be may be inaccurate for what we're always trying to express development if we think if we if we look at the history or the the word it it means to change something it's not always for the better but there's there's actors in the equation and it's not always clear as to are there are the actors self empowered and developing themselves or is it an external actor that's developing some other and i think it's it's quite powerful to reflect on what we actually mean when we say development because i think it can it can spawn quite a negative power dynamic when we're always associating the other as the people who ought to be developed and ourselves as the ones who ought to be doing the developing because for some reason we are elite or we are smarter are we are better off which which is a misunderstanding of poverty and a misunderstanding of our own wealth and i think it was president truman who first coined the term international development i can't remember at what point in history but it's interesting when words first enter our our concept of the world because then we start to think in different ways and we start to conceptual others and ourselves by using this term and people say things like charity begins at home and then we start worrying about the word charity which has a beautiful a beautiful fundamental meeting meaning but has been sort of contorted into one of these top down trickle down i've got to you can have a little attitude so yeah it is for your job i would imagine in particular because it's a sensitive area talking to people and trying to make change in their way of seeing their were all their context and i'd like to think a little on yes yeah the response is overwhelmingly positive it's and therefore my job is always so exciting so they're really keen my husband who taught science in high school and therefore in grade nine and it up talking about some of this stuff said it was really amazing how environmentally conscious students where until they were sixteen and old enough to get a driver's license and then everything changed so how deep do you think it goes how strong do you think this sense of wanting to make positive change is showing itself to be that's honestly a difficult question for me to answer because the people that i surround myself with are extremely passionate and committed people and often i am surprised at how my own pick i've become by creating this peer group people who have a very similar mindset to me so i think like the whole world cares so much these issues and don't we live in a wonderful place and then the show when somebody disagrees with whom or when i leave my my ivory tower classroom at university and and and start conversations with other people and realize like wow i'm my opinion is is not the norm and my opinion isn't necessarily right either which is important for me to remember and and i think it demonstrates how important it is to leave our insulated world of the university and to work in the community and to be reminded of how people are actually behaving beyond what we're studying in books now tell us a little bit about some of the things that you're trying to do so my work started when i was a student more and i volunteer capacity than a paid position and it's part of a national network of universities across canada we started in the first cohort of five universities and now there's there's nine which don't include a new group of universities solely in ontario that are working together and what's the label for the movement it's called campus food systems project it's also sometimes referred to as the camp campus food strategy groups so these campuses the main goal is to create more sustainable and a healthier food system on campus and when i say food system i mean everything that has to do with how food is grown to how we eat it to how it's supposed to so it includes farmers it includes processors consumers people who work in composter  garbage the students in the cullen arts program who are learning about the food and learning how to how much of it to use what should be thrown out so in creating a healthier and more sustainable food system there is in numer places in the infrastructure that we can intervene and try and make it more sustainable overall tell us about have a typical day or a single day shall we say since they are probably not a typical yes  job is very diverse and exciting because it's quite self directed so there is i often find myself looking up in fear at my white board of a to do list with great trepidation about my ever going to complete these projects that i keep adding to my plate but it's there for exciting and so on on a regular day i do a lot of research i'm a big component of my job is is researching how either universities or other bodies or business is not reinventing the wheel exactly which is very important because there is champions out there that are doing and credible job  just spoke on the phone a few weeks ago to the head chef at ryerson her name's josh number maharaj and she is like a stellar human being and has made a huge change on campus has writes this beautiful blog actually if if anyone wants to check it out at ryerson just updating the student population about what they're cooking what's in season and how students can get involved it's very artistically done also on the university version of jamie oliver exactly yeah yeah so so a big part of my month or my day is connecting with these champions around canada around north america and sometimes the world to learn how can  these best or smart practices to increase our our procurement of locally sourced food or sustainably sourced food or fair trade certified food and then i'm using that information to eventually write purchasing policies for the university and also  premier had an epiphany about greenhouse gases and sent out a fee it put all the institutions must incorporate a carbon reduction component into their purchasing plans do you think that still unpaid because that was an end run around the fountain yeah that's still a big part of the way institutions operate these days however there is there are so many loopholes that that sustainable aren't counted towards that that carbon offset or carbon reduction for example local purchasing of food doesn't count because you allegedly can't calculate the carbon offset from that activity so  count such as making a donation or buying something so it's they're looking more for i think additional behaviors than they are for for lesser impact behaviors you know i have to stop for energy of the university of spending and sometimes i get really frustrated with with how backwards thinking we are i don't like to use that term but but it's frustrating to think that we cannot use local purchasing of food for those carbon offsets but but it's simply it's simply another opportunity for applied student research to it to have a tangible impact so another big part of my job is developing curriculum or developing applied research projects that would actually be beneficial to you or to our community and then working with the students to follow through on those program projects so any knowledge gap that we have for example we don't know what what is more of a sustainable option between different types of compostable plates or compostable products so that i student can can take that knowledge gap and research and report back to the university ok we're going to come back to that in a moment wherever there's an internet connection at c h l why dot ca where we stream live and podcast and we have a number of quite interesting events coming up this weekend apart from any of the great huge ones the ones that i've looked at have to do with food and farming and arts all kind of coming together and you can find most of these at harbor living dot ca so thanks to them first i'll mention them then to spray art in the garden event that's this saturday and sunday july nineteenth and twentieth from ten am to four pm at twenty five twenty five north west bay road in endos it's just past stewart road if you're coming from the not imo you'll find over sixty artisans as well as live music with  ut sure sure yeah anyway so music entry is by cash donation for than then use food bank and food banks are another issue that we can talk about that's a that's a whole other thing but this is a fundraiser for the nan whose food bank you can walk in the gardens treat yourself to a new piece of art from one of the sixty artisans and then put your feet up by the pond and listen to the area and then whose edibles is just around the corner at nineteen sixty stuart road so you can check in there pick up a wide range of locally grown certified organic produce and some value added things as well i think they've been selling locally made salad dressings they have a store the soap an open daily through the summer yes the hours are ten to five seven days a week so do check them out while you're in the area they'll be open after the art in the garden what i like about a farm store or an authentic farm store like the nano said is that they have done the homework for you yes yes yes there are there really are there are they all have berries and vegetables and fruit probably some locally caught fish as well at least they certainly have when they have a fish connection so i'm sure the sunday the twentieth from noon to five each day at shamrock farm which is that twenty two seventy six anderton road and co mox enjoy an afternoon at the farm surrounded by the sights and scents of lavender including lavender harvesting and essential oil distillation demonstrations resident farm animals of course you pick lavender y and making tea should go in lavender blooming time and there are purple fields all around it's the most beautiful and the scent of course his delight oh goodness yes yes i think i've seen photos of that it's amazing  so you might see a little bit of that in coal marks this weekend you can bring a chair or a blanket to have a picnic lunch if you wish and there will be artisan lavender products available for purchase cash or check only please it says here admission is free no dogs however and for more information you can check triple w dutch shamrock farm dot ca and if you're in the co marks valley just on saturday you can also check out the forty fourth annual downtown courtney market day which is july nineteenth from nine am to seven pm you can learn more about that at triple w dot downtown cortney dot com and going the other direction if you're in the cowichan valley this weekend it's the thirtieth annual island's folk festival at providence farm see we're eleven am to midnight sunday eleven am to six pm and you can find out lots more at triple w dot islands folk festival dot ca and remember that islands is plural there so it's  festival dot ca and of course while you're at providence farm take a look at the form itself including the farm to plate restaurant which is operated by vi use common area arts program craig evans mentioned that on the show last week and you can find out more about that and everything else at providence farm by going to providence dot b c dot ca a i think that sort of leads us back into mentioning that the program which are listening to on c h o i went to one point seven and imo is changes and today marjorie stewart is talking with celia white the vi you healthy communities coordinator celia you piqued my interest just as way where moving into the same station great with your comment about possible dishes and so on and let me and i never use them and the reason i never use them is because they're by a good degradable but they're made out of corn and we're already in trouble for producing too much corn for all the wrong reasons so that's my story about problems with so called biodegradable products that is the question that so was behind it what does this mean where did it come from so what was your story when you got into the basically that that question and others around it so there's there's many compostable products out there some also that are on the market are post consumer recyclable products so i'm not aware of which have  less social or environmental extra knowledge so some of the compostable products are made from genetically modified corn some are made from sugar cane it's the land that intrigues me you s i'm i'm really concerned about the casual attitude we have towards uses of soil and degradation of soil so if we're going to be a throwaway society why don't we learn to carry our own fish where with us it's not hard to do and that way you don't share anybody else's germs to you and there's actually barriers to that in the system like you're not allowed to bring your own container to a restaurant and asked  take it home in that case because the food safe was however some universities have have provided their own solution by i think you either buy into this program as a student there or they're plastic clamshell tupperware containers and they're used as takeout instead of the compostable products or in lieu of the compostable products if you bought into the program i am i believe and then whenever you come back for another meal another day you handed in they wash it for you and they give you another one so it's been through the right process according to the food safety rules yes yes however i don't know what those containers are made of themselves it's it's their plastic and plastic can be book and it was for children and it's let me see the just so stories and they're very stylized which appeals to young people that they have the same beginning the same and the same slightly antique tone throughout the but my favorite is the elephant's child because the elephant's child suffered from what he wrote down as safe to tell city which i would guess to mean insatiable curiosity curiosity change will be impossible won't it so i just wanted to share with you the mantra of the activist that says you start with information and you said research is so you get solid information that you're sure you can rely on and then you analyze it that's the second step is you do an analysis of what you want to do with it and then you take action and the hardest is to take action because as you pointed out there's there's so much inertia there and this is a terribly throwaway society that we live and i'm amazed sometimes watching people take something that obviously has another used to it not just casually chuck it chuck it into a garbage container that must be one of your biggest obstacles that mind set that i don't want to be bothered do you find that with your clientele which is the student and the faculty and the non faculty staff that is absolutely an obstacle but i see my role as creating places in environments where it's easier or more desirable to participate in a healthy and sustainable system so where what are things that you feel feel good about i understand the institute is amazingly supportive of a healthy food culture you know everyone that i've worked with that you is amazingly supportive from the president yeah and it's really inspiring and and part of that is is simply demonstrated by my position actually exist in very few well there's only two universities right now in canada because we work together to apply for this grant to start this position you in partnership that have this healthy communities coordinator position for a graduated student to focus entirely on food sustainability projects and yeah you has is now fully funding my position but beyond finances there there's socially supporting it in every possible way and it's extremely empowering to me to be supported and to know that if i approach somebody with a project idea like most accounts on the food services manager or dave woody the vice president academic they're actually going to hear what i'm saying and they're they're excited as much as i am and passionate about this project and they just say go for it like that sounds great i don't have the time to do it and i'm glad you do so go for it and we did touch on before we opened the the program we were talking a little bit about the prevalence of junk food and particularly in vending machines and there are times up there on the hill when there are students who are living in residences up there and attending classes at different times and the and the cafeteria services are closed and all that they have is the junk food in the vending machines what are some of the questions that that raises for you questions for your program how do you how do you feel when you walk into the cafeteria and you see that the services are not running and the only food there is the stuff in those vending machines i feel personally like oh there's nothing to eat i have issues well i get sick from eating certain kinds of food and so usually i'm very limited by vending machines but i i'm trying to create alternatives for students that are inexpensive because that's one of the biggest barriers for students on campus is the expense of food and also the availability of food especially local sustainable healthy food so one project that i'm working on right now is a partnership with the gleaning program and green for those who don't know is a program run by and  where people with trees that produce fruit or knots in their backyard that aren't able to consume or use all of the product get to sign up through this program basically give their tree to the program and then volunteers have signed up through my move food share goes a team to pick this tree together a third of it stays with the owner of the tree a third of it goes to a donation to a food bank or something and then a third of it is kept by the volunteers if not more ird of donations and this food will be available at major events and also my ideal vision is to have key outlets around campus like in the gym and student services in the students union where they're well at the key times in the year when the produces and sees and we'll have free food available for students to come and just get a snack because there's really no reason that a student should be hungry on campus there's so much food there's so much food that is not eating that cater to events and i'd love to see all of that food really integrated into the system and sort of thrown out so part of my job too is coming up with creative ways like you said a big part of change is knowledge and then creativity and like a foot bank yes like you habitat for humanity you put sweat equity into helping build the house in cleaning you put sweat equity into doing the picking and quite useful because there's another transferable skill that they can go home and show the people in their community oh you can't do that to an apple if you take that piece of the branch off it's going to produce next year things like that and actually another even better example of sweat equity is i i started a relationship with craig evans farm farm shop growers co op and that's a farm that's beautifully organized to to allow for volunteers with no too much experience in agriculture to come participate in farming whether it be planting processing and then to take home free food once they're done so anybody absolutely anybody can volunteer at any time but my vision was to make it even more accessible for students so in the student life activity guided you where field trips and and fitness classes are offered there's this opportunity to take a bus with a team of students to farm sh op farm you pay five dollars as a registration fee because of operational costs but you're guaranteed to take home a food box valued at twenty dollars so students go participate get their hands dirty learn about what it means to farm connect with local farmers connect with each other and then take home like a week's worth of groceries of fresh local food that they have with their own hands and show each other how to how to manage it i'm reminded of for the project to select students to go on canada world youth there is a screening program in canada w very creative program for one thing they take care of dozen young people from our communities and a dozen from so called developing community and these become  a group of twenty four so it's not the kind of exchange where you're taking a person from one upper middle class have sold into another upper middle class household and they're kind of interesting wishful in the way they operate well this piece of the screening just  made me laugh it was so brilliant they they took the candidates into the shortlist it counted it into a kitchen and on the table there were a bunch of exotic vegetables and they were told to make lunch people who are really at a farmer's market i wonder if you've noticed how many people are taken aback at something like a cold rabbit and wouldn't know what to do with it so i would think in residences young people would be particularly able to share their their knowledge about how to deal with with the the food that they get in their box and you noticed some of that place which is why cooking classes are so important to be paired with things like the distribution of the good food box or a farmer's market so another project is a farmers of year you farmer's market is going to be starting up in the fall a pilot project was run by  evans over this past spring and that is going to be full swing come september but there's there's many foods that students aren't aware of like even beets or squash that they're not sure how to cook so my ideal vision again is to host cooking classes that use food from the farmer's market so students get ideas of how to use that so you're going to need access to a certified kitchen and that's very very difficult with the huge scale of commercial kitchens  you so where are you going to find your certified kitchens and here are people with the food safety training to deliver these there's kitchens and residences and although they're they're fairly small and they don't have all of the beautiful equipment that the corner arts kitchens what i think that's more reflective of a real real estate where students i mean if students are learning in their their own kitchen that they're also living with and you don't have to have food safe to be in your own food and she'd take everything out and she'd start just cooking and baking and for very long the students in that residence and other residents residences were asking her younger sister coming to visit so i think anybody who can go into one of these kitchens and start cooking up a storm somebody like craig for instance who is such an easy person to get along with and such a good role model and isn't some persnickety chef type person or are nutritionist type person could could teach a great deal or you know that is a skill that i have always admired being able to open the fridge and just cook the food but sometimes i look in my fridge and i'm like there's nothing that and the next thing and they presto so a term that we were using today is food literacy which which encompasses the knowledge of how to use certain food how to identify food it's basically being a variety but it's quite hard to grow and keep onion sun vancouver island it's easy to grow the most it's very hard to cure them so they're tight and dry and hard and won't quickly get you so so there's a challenge for you to develop the vancouver island perhaps well you know i actually leave the curing of the i means up to this one farmer the boneyard farmer's market and then i buy at the very last market of the season  buy way too many i mean and then i store them just in a box in a cool place in my house i still have onions from last year that or that i'm using in cooking and then now that i mean season is starting to pick up again i'll be able to get fresh ones just did a lot of experimenting actually this last year with preserving of food and storing of food i like to be constantly expanding my repertoire of homesteading skills or like a zombie apocalypse survival skills so i like campus master plan that's that's a multi year process but the cafeteria building will eventually be i think a science center and so the cafeteria facilities will be elsewhere which is the ideal opportunity to start advocating for these it will also be the ideal opportunity to get away from that scruffy little square that was intended to be a foot garden but isn't a very good piece of land to grow food  n to hold out for a piece of growing land with the advice of somebody like craig who will know instantly which basis to pick out and say see if you can save that and see if you can save that because sometimes we have to s e good land from development right or it's also another applied student research project i'd love to see is students in the science programs research get the most sunlight over the course of a day and then they could use that information to leverage the saving of certain parts of the land and they can do some research into how to replenish soil after you've been growing for a couple of seasons on it but  it's it seems to me a great deal of what we do that we call development today and to development it's about moved stuff away from where it wants to be to where you want to have it moving water from here to there moving soil from here to there something when what you should be doing is looking after what you have got and that that is something that the people that are an academic level should be able to get their hands heads around now i was going to ask you about  the question that some people would raise if you is going to be trying to get more locally produced food mean mass for everybody else when i mean less for the restaurants and the farmers markets in the near future  yeah that is what it would mean because there are not very many farmers on vancouver island and not a lot of food produced on vancouver island and with with you vic actually is a champion school in purchasing locally produced food which means that there's already less available but and will increase supply as well your economics courses come in as yeah exactly where you go if the farmer knows that if he puts in and because of that company was able to grow much more than they ever expected to grow and start delivering in vancouver whereas before u b c was was a buyer they only delivered on vancouver island so this means that it opens up a huge market for them and more and more companies in vancouver were able to buy which then increase the business even more so if companies or or institutes like via you when you are purchasing local food that it actually builds the business of the farm and gives them the resources that in order to expand and we're going to have to change our economic system to pay for the worth of the food that we're getting from the farmers instead of expecting them to produce the same price as the  non nutritious junk that we can get in the dollar stores and some of the supermarkets so pricing is going to be a huge issue and all of that and the whole question of producing food at an institution  is is vital it's sort of gandhian isn't it in its scope because that was what he was trying to teach i can learn to eat i can learn to grow my food so anybody can learn to do that studies was very enthusiastic about agriculture so my question is why can't they be training agricultural technologist why do all the young farmers have to learn the hard way i mean there's a whole other piece for you the to an academic institution has the responsibility to produce people who have applied skills as well as people who have demick qualifications and t campus has the horticulture program and the mandate of that program is you know i can never remember the word for it it's like ornamentals and landscaping so so agriculture or horticulture is outside of their mandate however many students request it and then make it part of part of their internship whether their practical studies and people in that program have said that if we can prove that they can make a profit by saleen edibles and sort of ornamentals then they would have incentive to switch because right now most of their profit for the program to run comes from the ornamental flower baskets that they sell and other things that they sell because there's not a lot of fighting in the program so they are stuck because of their financial resources so i would love to see a student up in applied student research project financially assess other ways that that program could make money by growing and selling edibles it been the view you cafeteria could purchase and feed to students and they have the land to do it because that program is located out on east wellington yeah it's difficult it actually because of the water issues the water actually damages young plants so there's there's lots of obstacles all the time or only part of the year i'm not sure i haven't  because places that are so great part of the time at the best place to rear raise plants when the water soaks away there is another student research project there that's an interesting one the whole the whole question of how the university functions as as as a society as a culture and its in its own right and i can see lots of opportunities coming along and i can see that you're going to innumerable choices to make and priorities to set about where to put your energy and and how to hive on some of the practical projects that you can see as workable what do you think you could achieve at the beginning when i first started as physicians that's a good question actually when i was initially creating this position and writing out what my goals were and they included so increasing institutional purchasing of locally sourced food and various curriculum development projects and then student engagement projects such as field trips to local farms and partnership with the greening program and then i presented it to my supervisor dave woody the vice president academic and he said wow do you really think you'll be able to achieve this the next six months and i said absolutely and in the sense that's true because i've taken little steps and i always go for the low hanging fruit make the start the first it and it's so much more rewarding and so much more inspirational for everybody  go for the easy opportunities and to see tangible results than it is to to to kill ourselves over things that are years down the future and that there's that are maybe contentious issues or that there's many maybe too many barriers or or not enough people fully onboard and as more and more small successes develop and build momentum then those a bigger picture items and the more difficult items will become more easily field of study why why did why are we here and there what are we going to do next why do we do things the way we do them so do you find yourself more and more drawn to try and figure out ways towards change that are more subtle beating people over the head with our opinions absolutely yeah i think that there very little positive effect from pre teen opinions or telling people how they're wrong or expressing how i may or may not be right because people become defensive people don't want to hear that there are doing wrong and i don't know what i'm doing next and they don't want to admit it i mean we've all been there and we all we all do things that are wrong we nobody is is living an ideal lifestyle where we have no negative impact on the environment or other people in the world so it's whose place is it really to to condemn others for it's what can we do together and in this particular area right now now are going to be joining this program this program which has been for a while divided into four streams but where all of us who produce programs starting to think in terms of who do we have with the enthusiasms for change who would like to contribute to the program to the program so given the you have an opportunity here to take an hour  or schedule say monthly what are the kinds of programs that immediately leap to mind that you'd like to try so vi us starting an educational campaign in september to identify what we're already doing really well and there is a lot so a lot of food that were purchasing is sourced from vancouver island and we just don't have the specific information or the resources yet to identify that food but that's a big part of my job  is identifying it and then reporting to students and consumers so this education campaign well have monthly themes and every month on facebook and on twitter we will be providing information based on this theme so one month is seafood one month is how to most economically use the cafeteria one month is what foods are locally sourced or what farms are certain foods coming from and so i will be basing my talks or my radio discussions around those themes to have interest from mature students as well as students who are involved in an undergraduate beginning to  interest in participation or is applied research interest in healthy communities project yeah yeah absolutely and i would say that beyond that there's there's an equal amount of interest from staff and faculty and administration i think that this project has been so powerful on campus because it's it's very positively oriented it's we're taking an adversarial approach because all of these stakeholders on campus from people who work in purchasing to people who work in finance is to people who work in ancillary services they all have a place to play a part to play and and everyone is excited and passionate and feels good about this project so they they all want to be involved in whatever capacity they can so when we approach these matters as a team and in the context of look at these opportunities that we can take instead of look at how guilty we should be feeling then when people want to be involved ok i think where about at the end of our time is that correct sosa just about oh twenty k we could wrap up i  just love that idea of looking at opportunities instead of just that it's a wonderful thought to wrap up well it's so inclusive instead of exclusive for at latest as you suggested because where we're all in this together and trying to create little separate spaces for everybody to be feel comfortable little ghettoes is not the way to make the kind of change that we're after with with our program and you know about can be reflected in our personal lives too like it's i still haven't fully learned and i try to really learn every day about that guilt is not my emotion to all and that instead of instead of feeling self deprecating are guilty about the things that i do wrong but the more productive emotion is mine to own is the opportunities that exist and how powerful i am to make the change that i choose to make so about that's indicative of how we can work as a community as well and he's bigger and one of your posts can be anger you don't have to turn on people you can use anger as a source a source of finish strength to give you the strength to continue with your projects well all i can say you marjorie for bringing celia in today and we'll see you again in the near future and that's our show changes is heard usually live every tuesday morning at eleven here and c h l why check us out on facebook and on behalf of our production team thank you so much for joining us