the star of our show and i want to say a little bit she she's pretty well known i suspect to all of you because she's been in the committed community forever not forever but you know they  winery which i just learned about has been a community center you know i haven't been in the community for more than ten years so i'm pretty new but they do so much for the community such as publishing event  pamphlets like we just had for the sustainable living fair and that's the least of what they've done i mean they do so much for the community and judy we want to thank you for participating and i'll let you tell the rest of your well first of all if anyone was here for westchester and it's really disappointed you can leave you can leave now and i want all of that as you sit down in fact i i think i'm going to have i'm hoping i can come next week because i'd like to hear what he's been doing since he's you know shifted back again first of all i  the the way this talk was presented that talked about major challenges in a high tech environment i again i hope you're not going to be disappointed but i know very little about high tech technology which i'll explain in a minute but all i feel like i've been doing the last especially ten years is writing a bucking bronco technology that just hiring good people people who know more than i do and to keep everything going and to keep up with the pace of change in our industry so i will not talk very much about high tech but but sort of going the other way talk about print which is what i know  love i came here and seventy two my husband got a job at the university so we moved here we lived two years in arcadia and then moved to field brick we've been there ever since and yes very shortly after we got here we started the field br winery so my husband and i have had this ridiculous hobby business all these years but we both had jobs so we could afford our hobby business and we continued to we were talking about growing vegetables and we were sort of back to the landers we grow grow our own food and raise animals and all that so that's that's sort of our background of why we ended up in the field brooke also because philbrick is warmer we don't we're not in the coastal so hundred seventy two was was not too long boy you're going to i am now i am afraid to throw out any dates but it was after the time standard merged so i don't know some of you are that old and you remember that we did have two very lively papers in the old days and they all had their police scanners on and they used to chase ambulances and all that and cop cars and everything so that was a way in the old days i started hundred seventy six i was a columnist for the arcadia union newspaper and i wrote a column on field but i was always interested in hard news and sometimes it got me in trouble because if you old union when they had these columnist from oric and blue lake and they would write these happy stories about pancake breakfasts and all this stuff well i wrote stories about you know the in the eighth grade field trip was cut short because the kids if somebody brought psychedelic mushrooms and they all had to be sent home from you know book as of so that i wasn't kind of a typical columnist i always was sort of a hard news reporter  and i was a i went back to school to get my college degree in journalism at humboldt state so i was i think in my early thirty's by the time i graduated took me fourteen years to get to get through  college but i joined the arcadia union as a reporter county government was my beat and i spent every tuesday at the board of supervisors for more than a decade or two  eighty three i was the maid the editor of the union and then in eighty eight i was fired so and the reason i was given that monday i'll never forget was that i was not friendly enough to the timber industry and i said i'm very sorry but they didn't teach a set in journals so anyway it's ok it was a change in ownership and it was a good kick in the rear for me to go on and do something else and then in one nine hundred ninety we started we didn't start the journal the journal actually was started by a couple who lived here at the time and they only put out six editions and it was looked nothing like the journal it w a folded up little triangle like this is kind of a quarter fold they call it and but there was some advertisers and there and we paid them a thousand dollars and we bought the journal that first year i never revealed the price before that was a lot for us so we struggled from ninety to ninety eight as a monthly and the reason is it just didn't make any sense first of all it wasn't really a newspaper because you're by the time you go to press and in those days paste up the old type and everything on and wax everything and and darkroom stuff and all that it by the time you went to press and got on the street you were not it was there was no news really in there it was a monthly kind of you know a six week old piece of news really so the breaking news was not ever our thing but it also didn't serve advertisers very well and so i really started to think long and hard about how we can help our advertisers be successful be partners in their business and help them build their business and i discovered alternative weekl and the alternative weeklies is a whole nother topic but i'll just touch on it briefly because i love them dearly they started in the late sixty's the old you know everything from chicago reader to the san francisco bay guardian the alternative weeklies spoke really did speak truth to power they they were against the vietnam war because we all know now after all these years that in fact the gulf of tonkin resolution was a big hoax and and we were tricked into going to war and all that stuff but they were right all along just like they were right by the way about the alternative news weeklies across the united states even today speak truth to power they do not go along with the new york times the washington post so in the invasion of iraq universally alternative weeklies were in against the invasion of iraq so their roots go all the way back to the sixty's but really as recently as the iraq invasion they were right all along and they wrote about it so but what they also dead they were free newspapers which the model has proven to be  right there's nothing magic about having to pay a dollar fifty and a newsstand to read it if somebody wants to read the paper they're going to sit in there they're going to pick it up because they're actually going to spend time with it it's not like something that's thrown in your driveway like an advertiser it's called an on demand newspaper and that was the model that i found the other thing about alternative weeklies i'll just say one more thing why  think they're fabulous and they really contributed a lot to progressive goals about positive change in the community is they are absolutely hyper local they may write about big issues but they localize everything from one end to the other to this day this paper is filled with nothing but local news and local activities so that was our model we changed and ninety eight to a weekly we helped our advertisers because they need weekly exposure and we took off and we've been financially sound ever sence we had a few down years but not very down so the last time i gave a public talk really i was queen peck through my notes because i've been purging we've been downsizing my husband and i trying to clean out closets and not leave a big mess is for our kids as we age so i ran across  the talk that i gave in my note and if you can't remember at that time two thousand and six like flashback we had so much competition news competition we had gone through the era in the early two thousand two thousand and one two thousand and two where we had the battle of the three t v stations or the two and a half t v stations really but they had big news departments and they were just battling it out every news every night for happy news you know to get off them well we went through that but then we had this daily battle between the eureka reporter and the time standard and it really was it was amazing and then i read across an article in the if anybody wants to see it after the talk by us a former time standard reporter who was with the sacramento bee i believe in he came and he did a story on this battle and this went on for you know four years five years  hamas and we had more reporters run around the streets of eureka i couldn't believe it it was hard for us during that time because they also were competing for ad rates and dropping their ad rates really low and but we just hung on and we made it through and one of them went out of business or was forced so anyway so let's talk a little bit about the last from ten years to now  first of all print in itself is expensive it's because we have added costs that on line news news media does not we have to actually print the paper and we have to pay for the paper and pay the printer and we have to pay to distribute it and pay to pick up the rack returns and things like that it's very expensive versus just throwing something up on a blog or on a news site like that so the way we survive this this long is we paid attention to the development of online and we got in the game even though it didn't bring us any revenue to this day week a very small percentage of our revenue from online it's growing and it's really growing quickly this year and last year because we're paying attention to it but our online revenue is has really helped has started to help us is going to help us a lot more as we continue to shrink this paper because i'm not saying it shrinking but it's you know it's sixty pages is faddish you're going to get for a weekly newspaper i think in this day and age a lot of times we print more copies well i know we did then the b guardian the last two years they were you know they were down to forty eight pages thirty six pages you know so that's part of the why we have stayed healthy we pay attention to on line we've gotten into the game we've embraced technology change we've just like companies grow you know you grow in sophistication and complexity and a lot of this technology i don't even know how to sit down at the computer and open it up like we have a program called this massive thing called newspaper manager and basically it books all of our ad senate bills every one and it feeds into our quick books accounting system and all this is very complicated you know throw in a legal ad well legal ads have to run for time some of them so you run a legal ad for four times and that has to be booked correctly into the system and yet you can't bill the client until after they've all run and so you know it's very complicated it's not just the bookkeeping end of it or the tracking the record tracking but of course can you imagine graphics graphic technology just completely passed me by more than twenty fifteen years ago for sure i used to be able to do photoshop a little bit i'd sit down of the computer and because we only had you know maybe six people at that time and you have to be able to jump in there and do all these different jobs and so photoshop or or i never got into like that adobe illustrator and all those programs but i have a wonderful staff that does and they have continued to grow and change with the technology you have to embrace the technology and just keep growing going and that's what i mean by a while bucking bronco that we're we're writing right now the other thing is that really has kept us healthy is to diversify and we have always had especially publications like we do things like we put out an annual wedding guide that's beautiful it's once a year really helps everybody who's throwing a big wedding on and needs ideas and we also have this menu of menu guide which is another thing that i introduced to our national organization because we were so successful right out of the box with this when we we camped out chain restaurants you will not find a chain restaurant in here so it's all independent restaurants and it's a yearly guide and it really showcases our independent restaurants and humboldt county and now across the united states there's many of these types of publications and then and we do things like we do have another southern humboldt guide that's really nice that's for tourists you know down there we have we have individual clients like los coast and shelter co we print brochures we do this cuppa thing so we've diversified the other huge thing is three years ago or four i don't know harvey might know we started this insider magazine which is a quarterly and how many of you have actually seen it or you have that surprised me th wonderful because it's it's a little hard to find unless you go into a visitor center or are you have to see those racks somewhere or maybe a hotel but people who live here don't tend to go to places like that so they don't always see this this insider magazine is repurposed saying a lot of stuff that we are already do we have the best comprehensive on line calendar in humboldt county which we print a sample of every week in the paper our calendar and every three months we take that calendar material from the website and put it into year so there's a ninety day calendar by the way this is a brand new and just came out today i have a couple extra copies here and but it has a great ninety day calendar between now and the end of the year if you're planning on having people from out of town or whatever ok these things all make money the newspaper is more of a break even proposition so healthy companies have to do something else other than this print product oh and then our new when even newer than this is going to be out next month is a cannabis directory we have to embrace change we can't just ignore it and so we thought what does the cannabis industry what do they lack what do they do need well they they don't know about each other the good the farmers don't always know that there are  shops throughout california that maybe want to buy their products so we have a lot of cannabis farms some of them are actually getting themselves illegal so you know it's just kind of a directory of the industry for the state of california and it's go selling really well it's going to make us money help us keep the whole company strong so i very talked about how expensive it is journalism itself we have five reporters i think we have five of the best reporters and i'm a county one is the calendar editor by the way who often goes overlooked but she is awesome and she can you imagine trying to process everything that's going on in her book county and get it right and not have people yell at you because you screwed up she is amazing and a different type of writer and reporter she's also writes a lot of short articles in the back of the journal that are really funny and then we have our newsroom is kind of a little bit we have one arts and entertainment cultural editor and then we have a hard news editor so but the total staff is five and it is expensive it's really really expensive because you want to keep those people  job you don't want them walking off and going somewhere else for a job we need to keep developing though their skills one of the things that we have been looking at and we haven't done anything about yet is i think reporters the next generation of reporters need to start this videotaping i think they need to videotape their interviews and we need to have more on line content we all know that social media the whole thing about promoting yourself and getting people to come to your website i think reporter should should have a little tripod in their i phone and they can record interviews and put that up too so we're going to be talking about that and some other changes we also need to embrace and harness the energy of citizen reporters and there's a lot of a lot of news media organizations that do a lot better job than we do i think that's an area that we need to grow in because people report you know it's not it's not real news because they're not professionally chain reporter but they they tell you what's going on in their computer in their community and we need to harness that more and get get more bottom up reporting but i also think it's very important as we've seen the national fiasco that unfolded this last year with our political situation news has to be curated by a reliable source so the first thing if i tell if you take away one thing from today if you guys are on facebook and somebody posts something the first thing i do is i look at the bottom and i see the source did it come from a reliable city news source or some fakey sounding web site somewhere you know i have a neighbor who is a abbot i am very friendly with his avid trump supporter everything she puts on her facebook page is garbage every one of those new set sites is unreliable so are you is it the washington post well then i tend to believe it is it time magazine yes you know so you know it just it just really be careful of your news sources because i think all news even though we want to embrace citizen reporters and people who are ripping everybody who's blogging and doing the thing we we always will need editors and we'll need trained reporters to fact check and and and that's going to be incredibly important so what i want to do today is it just kind of i don't have a lot more to say about the technology end of it i'll try to answer technology questions if you have you know if you have questions about that but i'm open for really anything any ideas or questions you might have that that is something that is really very it is frightening and it should be frightening i don't know i to you know to t v and radio it was pretty have it is pretty heavily regulated you know you can't eat your license to operate is in jeopardy and that's one thing but now we have this whole new media that is absolutely the wild west an unregulated so i really don't know but they need to be responsible for the what happens what happens next with this information that they're there being in the pipeline for so i think probably more some type of regulations that that is similar to the way we rig regulate the airwaves because there needs to be some responsibility there and there's not right now there's just i find this situation really very because of our age group we're used to back when the president if it is i have when our youngest daughter has been my kids are all well their forty's and late thirty's she has been with the federal government all these years as a profession worked for the state department but she's also rather a lot of military people and then she's been moved around you know the frightening thing is when i go to visit her where rich there there's a lot of federal government people who watch fox news it's just true it's true military people do you know what state department people do they're there too far if fox news and it's kind of it's really kind of you know so i would go there are you know as a you can't tell your kids anything even as teenagers but you know i'd say you know fox news want to try c n n sometime and then i say fox is a little like m s n b c you know you kind of watch it for entertainment because it echoes what you already feel or your passion or whatever and s i said for real news you know go to or i love time magazine online oh my god they have stories breaking every day and they have such quality reporting you know i mean the magazine itself is like shrinking to nothing but the on line presence are doing a hell of a job so we've got all these new sources that are you know that's all i feel like i can do is to just point out and say look at your news source look at your news source new york times great l a times you know i mean saying yeah well and and art i know that you're like i am is that our news consumption is changing is still changing all the time you know i we kind of got if we want it accurate breaking news i will go to some place like c n n or something like that but just that constant drone of hurricane news or something like that i just couldn't take it any more we should we went backwards and started watching the p b s news hour my husband and i and it just was so kind of refreshing and calming and all that stuff but i'm also a new habit i picked up when i got my new phone last year is it came with the package of i don't even know what the services but you pick all the sources of news that you like like you know everything is on there i've got i do have time magazine and c n n and you know all these kind of things it's an aggregator and it's strictly headlines and i find myself now a couple times a day you know flipping through this thing and and it's really and that's where you get multiple stories multiple viewpoints because it does have fox news on it so it will have some fox stories that are trending it has the top trending stories of the day on this news site some of them are fox news you know and anything and hillary always goes to the top of the to this day i mean she's still top news at fox you know well i can show you later on my phone i think it's just the news the newspaper does it help me out here somebody is just one of the apps on your phone that's an aggregator and you pick i picked about twenty or twenty five news sources that i that i would want to have on there and it just it's a constant role so i get my breaking news from that when i can take it so i don't watch the c n n as religiously as i used to so yeah so it's a it's a great news you know keeps you up on all the breaking news so yeah work so so we had one for for summer we're not really growing our new staff because a lot of newspapers are size and even bigger do not have a news department as big as ours you know sometimes they operate it with three people and a bunch of freelancers so we do have you know really good reliable freelancers but we don't have a big of as big a pool as when a lot of a lot of all weekly papers are in bigger cities  or university towns that was the second wave of all newspapers is started in university towns in the late eighty's or the ninety's you know there was a second wave of papers that were launched three papers weekly papers alternatives to in that case a poor daily you know usually the poor daily would invite competition and especially if you have a university around you have talent so that's how they kind of came about and they're in trouble like everyone else i think the there are some daily papers that are that are doing fine and will probably do continue to do fine for me in the end forseeable future five to ten year thing but i just don't know what the future of print is because it's so expensive to run a news to the local news department so  thanks we do think it's a public service of sorts when specially when we don't make any money or call year and we break even at the end of the year we think oh my god i can see about i can always see about which i used to do a five year plan update i can't do that anymore two years yes i can tell you that it's going to have a print edition  it will at some point you know we already have seen the print revenue leveling off and even dropping a little bit but not as dramatically as a lot of our sister papers across the united states are some of them are really in trouble we were never have really depended on classified and a lot of them were and then so when craigslist came it just decimated them  how we pick stories well i'm i am kind of out of it i've been tried i have been trying to retire for fifteen years or so and in fact i don't even go in a lot anymore if things are running well and you know i'm very hands off we've had the for the first big painful thing for me is to give up was when i gave up being editor and i can't remember when that was but at least fifteen years ago maybe more and that was hard because i was used to making that decision and kind of drive and drive in the bus in that regard in the editorial department but i just couldn't do that because company is it we now have like twenty employees we have a payroll of i don't know eight hundred thousand or more i mean it's a big operation for me i never envisioned anything like that there used to be two of us you know in a room and and we didn't pare selves if we couldn't you know for a long time so we kind of this business and we never borrowed money we never had a sugar daddy nobody ever my husband used to say not one nickel from my whatever but we did buy me a winery equipment that was really fun and that was ok but not the journal so the journal actually has grown completely on its own without outside financing and it's solid for now but i again two years from now i hope i don't know what's going to happen because a lot of our money does come from that print product right there so oh i think what's really exciting i mean i'd love it myself because i think it's drawing a lot of new people into into journalism they're seeing just like we did at watergate i was when watergate was going on i had an elderly aunt who used to just sit there and her handkerchief all the time and say how world is going to hell and i said no no it's not this is this is a this is it's working you see bad guys are going to get it we're going to have we're going to have this rebirth of you know you can reinvent yourself as a nation and i think that's what happened during watergate and journalists played a big role in it journalists are playing a big role now they were late to the game they were really late to the game they were the whole thing about the invasion of iraq they never called it the invasion of iraq until and they all you know all the major papers were onboard with what bush wanted to do and it will and you know that part was crazy i think they were late they were so entertained by donald trump during the and they didn't they didn't even consider that he could win and so they were so entertaining that you know and it was entertainment value and it was zippy news coverage and all that so they just went on way too long before they woke up and said hey we've got to take this guy seriously we've got to start covering him we've got to start calling him out on lies they wouldn't even use the word lies for the longest time and i'm talking about major news outlets major newspapers united states would not say trump is a liar everybody is saying trump is a liar now you know they were jets too they were late coming to the game they're doing their job now though and and also our legal system i just if i didn't go into journalism i probably would gone into some kind of law because i really do believe in the rule of law and keeping you know here's the rule so everybody plays by the rules you know which is not you know so i think that again journalists and lawyers are team could have and how here oh well since we're still probably battling about who shot j f k it doesn't surprise me so i don't know i probably honestly i probably wouldn't click on a story like that so  did we have leveled off twenty to twenty two we've been as high as twenty two thousand and remember that humboldt county only has one hundred thirty seven hundred forty i don't know many people in it and about we have a lot of study from two different directions about our market penetration and we have one of the highest in the united states bar none because i think because we weren't a wild and crazy all paper you know to early on we were sort of like a serious newspaper that we kind of built and built and built and people rely on it we tell the truth you know that sort of stuff as so twenty thousand there's about two point six to two point nine readers per paper because people take it home when their spouse or their kids read it or they they put it they leave it in the coffee shop but we count them so that's how we know and we also have done two phone and cell phone surveys over the years they're expensive to do we don't have a group we don't have a group anymore they don't even come to humboldt county because we don't have enough people but when we did w the last one we had really was reflective of the one we did in the ninety's and we did want to get and two thousand and four something like that they basically came out the same and so we're we're not going to spend the money again too because we know how many papers are picked up every week and we count any returns on the rock and so that's how we get our circulation and it's is it's pretty good as gold and the cell phone and phone land line survey that we did the last time confirmed everything we thought the only thing we learned is that our readers are actually a lot younger than we thought we are we are really strong and you know eighteen to thirty five or something like that and i think it's because of the entertainment they love our music grid they want to go listen to live music they want to you know that kind of thing so so if they get a little news on the front that's that's ok too but you can see them actually read it they'll open up the back  last third of the paper to find out what's happening but then now they're all a lot of them are online and they crazy things are happening at does anybody ever heard of the smart card yet and here you have you guys are with that i need it is ok so that's another thing we're always looking for new sources of revenue that and since we do a lot of food reporting and you know the culture you know kind of thing we have this phone app now i do not have one but my daughter moved to town and she got one right away because she wanted to save twenty percent at moonstone honestly so you go it's a it's like a group on coupon thing where you go and you load up some money on this app and then when you go into a restaurant you get a discount not all restaurants you have to be participating and the restaurants run out of every month they get they're loaded up with a certain amount of dollar amount that they're willing to do and trade and put it on this phone well last night we got caught because we were we were having a harvest dinner and for the winery for our our family our daughter and her  husband back home and their kids and they all helped with the harvest and our sales rep so we were taking it all out to dinner at moonstone and we expected to get twenty percent off with the app and guess what that afternoon it ran out it clicked off so we had a really big way you know i i don't give them a lot of feedback but there are some things with every set of five reporters you're going to get some redundancy people who are interested in the same kind of thing and they're not interested i think would i do things differently i abscess i absolutely would but even though i'm publisher i do you don't go in and tell the editor of the editorial staff what to cover  do i do have minor dustups once in a while because in the old days i kind of miss more people on the cover we used to have a person on the cover every week almost every week and i kind of miss that and i do want to hear i want more people stories not issue stories necessarily and so they're shy to do that because they're kind of their background is daily daily news reporting and so they tend to look at the big picture like the last you know it's like this is an issue this this week's papers reggae falling well this is a last week and this is an issue now there's people involved and there's people in here but it's not a person profile it's not a people profile this was a dynamite one did anybody read this this is scary scary stuff so again they cover a lot of legal issues but not so many people you know think i wanted to see more of a story about amy stewart here is this person who's been in our community i am mean they did they did cover it but it wasn't a cover up you know what i mean and i is so i did tell him i was disappointed is that on am i going to get in trouble for that i'm i told her you know i wanted to know more about why amy was was leaving this area and moving to portland when my daughter who just moved down here from portland with her family was laughing after she read the short article that they did on her she says you know my daughter my husband i love to cook my daughter does not like to cook at all she says she wants somebody else to cook for her so amy stewart said the same thing say i'm going to portland because i don't like to cook so she felt vindicated so anyway trained at a daily paper we tried to hire him away from the time standard three times he turned us down all three times and finally when he was thought the strip was going to sink at one point he just said ok i want i want to come over and i said ok but you know we're not daily reporters we don't do that kind of reporting we do either deep in depth or we do writing with an attitude or writing with because we want to help you know progressive change in the community want to solve community problems i said you got to be a lot flashier you know writer you've got to have you have to engage people you have to make them really want to read it and and he really met the challenge i think he's writing reporting we we do you know sometimes we don't pay very well you know we you know first short articles or for things submitted things but we know pay for everything so that's one thing you get for doing because i have  jobs yeah there's jack might you know my heart goes out to him it's just the money's not there the money is not there to do a good job and i thought if we couldn't get over that hump to get to a point where we can really pay our reporters well and make sure everybody has health insurance you know you're not in it for the long run so that's why when i found alternative weeklies that were regional in scope like this i thought because we can write about southern how bowler northern or who are whatever you know it's it just made sense to have a regional paper instead of these community papers like this was just not enough money to support him i have a lot of odd actually we have a lot of entrepreneurs and in our family it's kind of funny even my sister's kids and stuff like that my daughter my daughter is two businesses in portland that she's still running it's just blows me away i don't know how she's doing because she's down here doing the winery now too so you know you have to have the fire in the belly for the work that you do and i don't have a i have three daughters who are all professional somethings and they're doing their own careers so my daughter in portland is she's an architectural designer so she and her husband have a design build company which was during the recession was meant you had no income for three years but she also has a runs a tap room she had one of the first half rooms in portland where they have microbrews and so she does she still has them up in portland two of them so now we're trying to figure out who the next owner of the journalist i will be honest with you and we've been looking for aggressively for five years and we haven't found the solution yet we've tried  employee you know kind of aesop things but people are not entrepreneurs are somebody who are real risk takers in their life and they just you know they did is just you can't just take somebody who knows the business like an editor or a sales manager or something and turn them into a business person so it's really it's kind of a unique combination and so we you know we thought about chaining up with other  weeklies we've thought about that so we'll try to do the best job we can but i am seventy now my husband's eighty i'm looking for an exit so at some point we will have new ownership and it won't be our kids because they they went like this they saw how hard their mom worked and that lisa listen this is all yeah we've been looking for a long time sure  i mean it's because newspaper revenue is going into the toilet you can just look at the newspaper revenue and competition is fierce i mean look what happened to us we had hank simms was our editor and he started our on line thing and everything and then he decided i don't like print anymore i don't want anything to do with that and he just walked out the door and started this new site on pennies because it didn't you know he is a natural was a natural programmer and brilliant and well that and there were some other reasons too hank has different taste and news than i do do too i mean he's more of and we always used to laugh about crime candy i'm not interested in crime candy you know i'm not interested in who is booked last night i had that i don't care so you know and so all of a sudden he was kind of eating our lunch really in that in the web revenue really he's there they're doing pretty well they have a new staff of maybe three or so full time i don't know how many they have but  it's a lot cheaper because they don't have to print a paper and they don't have to distribute it so yes  broadcasting who's now you know i'm sorry about the state of t v news but it went down really quickly and i don't know what to say about it i think it's also local markets are side you have to realize humble county assists malas t v market in the united states if you look at the circles those circles on the map of what do they call they there's a phrase that they use but san francisco's this big circle over here in sacramento is this big service and then you go around and everything and what counties like this so there's just you know and then they also went in a direction that i'm i never was a t v news person because  it was the emphasis was so much on visual happy stories that you know run around and you know it's not true this is not my thing and never was my thing so and i don't know people ask me about the time standard i don't know sometimes how they keep going you pick up a paper and there's like three ads in it so you know maybe you've had paula i don't know have his share of spoken to your group the  publisher or oh i don't know him so i don't know i think it's a real struggle i don't know i don't know what's going to be i can't see that farhad i used to be able to you know when you're kind of in business you're always kind of planning ok next year and two years from now five years from now what you know because you have to you have to stay in business you have to stay really competitive and on top of it or you'll just get run over you know so now and i'm going to miss amy stewart once in a while she used to do some stuff for us anyway anybody else oh working on something like that because there i i have been watching a lot of local efforts and even my neighbors and feel brooke are doing something you know they're going to show again you're asking me an editor question and i am so far removed from that i