this incredibly exciting book that we've had part one we talked last week this week we're talking we're taking up where we left off last week and again the book is called let's show what hyperspace it's published by oxford university press and i think  worthwhile right at the outset letting people know that as we talk now in image alive one thousand nine hundred and four this book is a runaway bestseller nationally it's seventeen on the list nationally and for a science book about theories of relativity and such whatnot rather than you know other romantic momentous size other kinds of think that that's quite a feat and michio kaku welcome very much conversation to talk about your runaway best selling book the should sell even more if i may say so hyper space and and it's just taken off the reviews in the newspaper had been fantastic write the cover the cover of the new york times san francisco chronicle and the philadelphia inquirer book review section the wall street journal raved about it los a runaway best seller and member science books as you pointed out are very rarely on the bestseller i don't think they do i think to lose thomas made it you know with lives of a cell and that sort of thing and i guess a few others and so what but people are you know you're right it's a hard sell as it usually is go and people are maybe been duly frightened because it seems there's something i'll never be able to understand but in point of fact this book is a particularly good because it is a book that makes these things accessible to  to anyone in a very real sense as long as they can stick with it is written in the language and for that even i can talk about it and i find it i've read it all the way through find it interesting i still don't understand all of a great deal of in the last we hear today yet i appreciate your bearing with me in my naivete we were talking we were talking about you know the history of physics and the understanding and we got up to the point you were introducing and wanted to introduce because you've been a particular proponent of the superstring theory right holes but we're just sort of in a sense bring it up to the tremendous excitement of the more or less contemporary moment which is the last few years now this super string or superstring theory or is it super gravity or superstring th space and big bangs and black holes that's edition of relativity dealing with the big picture cosmos as a whole stephen hawking stephen hawking belongs to the actually dish yes then there's another tradition that i belong to and this tradition is a tradition of quantum theory that's where i come from and the problem is that these two great theories can summarize all human physical knowledge into two spheres the sphere of marble the spear of einstein or the sphere of wood which is the smash it with a rather smashers and busted up and even more particles and we've got thousands of particles now that we don't know what to do with and then the other tradition is more of a holistic tradition looking at the universe as a whole disquieting to say we have thousands of particles that we don't know what to do with i mean there are there is rather like putting together the toy with a child every few parts left over at the end or a lot of the stuff that's on the d n a there's a lot of stuff that seems to be unnecessary pigs and humans and snakes and it seemed as if we'll never going to get anywhere with a unifying life then they discovered a string the it was called d n a and with three billion base pairs one hundred thousand genes you could create a human and pigs and horses and snakes and they would never be able to have a synthesis of everything and then when they discovered the double helix that is two strings wrapped around each other like that we began to realize that the string is perhaps the most compact way in which to store fabulous amounts of information as they do in d and a simple little string is the simplest way to cram an enormous amount of information that is the blueprint for pigs and horses and snakes and crabs and interconnected as a system and that's not all chemical in can commit that so amazing amazing that absolutely be mind boggling so out of specialization came unification physics went to the same process we had specialization in gravity people  specializing in light people specializing in the weak force and the strong nuclear force people specializing in all these different areas but no one thinking the big picture it is what does it mean for all these forces then about ten years ago  the fundamental breakthrough was made that perhaps strings that grating strings inside the cork that perhaps all these thousands of particles are nothing but resonances this vibrational modes on a string i think of a violin string when you play the violin you don't think that the note c is a fundamental no ideas just as fundamental or f sharp any note is as fundamental as any other note because what is really fundamental is the violin straight right today we think that all these resonances correspond to particles and that's why we have so many particles because we have so many vibrations of a cosmic violin string so tiny you can't even see it but that each mode of the violin strain corresponds to a particle  gives us that mathematics gives us the fact that these strings are incredibly tiny yeah but they just by d n a give us a unifying way to look at the entire thing we call force now this was this and this this was contained within the thinking you can lose a natural mind which had had to be discovered by students by stealth almost in the in the days when they were training because it wasn't taught normally in the physics as you were coming up now if i read that correct that's right and it was it helped to of everything with that space would condense and space to condense into people and there's like a cloud condensing out of nothing all of a sudden space would have kinks in it little kinks in space and these kinks in space would be called particles ok so  spatial dimension and colusa said well look everyone ponce about the th dimension the th dimension why not take the th dimension seriously put it in time's lines equation and i had that come into the air and so forth from the physics yes right and then are popped out the force of gravity they gravity is nothing but vibrations in four dimensional space like a bed sheet of a four dimensional bed sheet that vibrates that is called gravity well that's a great idea add one into the rd dimension and looking down from the rd dimension these two pieces fit right to get whereas they had they have only for comedy right so think of a crystal for example that shatters and the crystal shatters on a tabletop right when people start to put the pieces of the crystal together the flatlanders they cannot visualize the rd dimension right they have two pieces they don't fit together they won't work they won't work we're trying to make them more until somebody says take one crystal leap into the rd dimension  and you have a beautiful crystal now of the flatlanders would object say that is heresy yeah you want to get killed by the church the church says there are only two dimensions there's nothing called up and everyone can see that that's the light but they don't fit together these two pieces don't fit together until you lift it in the rd dimension and you put it together and that is now the th dimensional theory of gravity and he put that together and gave us the idea of looking at it from another dimension an yeah when this obscure mathematician from what is now coming grad in russia yeah i sent him a letter saying you didn't go far enough you gave us the th dimension time let us now look at the mystics and go to the  dimension and all of a sudden light comes for free will einstein was so shocked he put this in his pocket for two years yeah but he was he would he was taken with it even then he was shocked that it was such a simple idea mr yeah right mr it wasn't revolutionary five why not sixty seven and eight dimensions well when you start to add these higher dimensions when you add the sixty seven to eight that pops out the weak nuclear force and this is how they came from and what the weak nuclear force was discovered force governs the radioactive decay that today we have these beautiful pictures of the brain called pet scan sure positron emission tomography right where you can actually see parts of the brain lighting up like a christmas tree because that's where sugar is being  sugar ok that's how we know know how the schizophrenia brain things that's how we know how the thinking process takes place that is the weak nuclear force nuclear medicine is based on the weak nuclear force so that's at least one benefit of the nuclear force that we can see would take off fifty percent of the gross national product of the planet and electromagnetic spectrum in the dust revolution based on mechanical processes that's where the nuclear strong the nuclear forces are just barely developing and maybe part of the future that's right so if you add in terms why ten dimensions why not eleven dimensions dimensions it turns out that this theory has startled the world of mathematics mathematicians were just literally bowled over new mathematics came pouring out of this hyperspace theory intend to mention space and twenty six and twenty there's another string there vibration points and i'm going to reduce all your book in a minute to try to get you to that and so with the string to me that kind of thing if they vibrate in these dimensions in terms mean to say the standard model ok now remember we talked about today i think we'll be able to talk superstring ok there are two great traditions in physics as we said the addition of beautiful marble the tradition of einstein and mach and remind tha painstakingly putting together each particle in its proper place we can now we do sit down to perhaps fifty or sixty particles called the standard model based on quarks that we have know which made the front page of the new york times yeah because you saw it like the last of this old puzzle now many of us hate the standard model i don't know of any physicist who likes the standard model because the standard model is i now think of it taking a giraffe scotch taking it to a mule scotch taking it to a whale and then saying this is the most beautiful animal that nature has ever created on the surface of the earth and this is a people have the ultimate theory called the standard model which is ugly as sin ugly that's rated lot of i wrote a book just last year a six hundred dollars page book with the standard model being the core of the book yeah it is an ugly there it takes two concerned with this like you suck about like unified field they are they reaching for some sort of simplified elegant thing or are they happy with the continue of not having a unified view of things a comprehensive businesses what drives us is the search for a beauty and simplicity that's why we are physicists and that's what we are mathematicians that's why we are musicians we don't simply put a bunch of notes on a sheet of paper and call that great music but aren't there some people who geopolitical and some other metaphor what this means for the human condition and this question of overview or vision i mean we had trilateral us on the television the other day and they're all sitting there bridge and you know all these people and they all essentially said we have no vision for how we're pushing pencils being very happy with your little sector of the universe and i think that's not presidential leadership no i know we don't have that kind of leader that one reason why clinton has been been criticized is because he has a bureaucratic thinking that he little bit but only because the normal people people you know are in academia as well rangers right but there are very many people a vision and where are the people of vision of the arts or in politics or economics or anything else there are but i didn't mean to take you away from the history of sack or whatever you know without looking at the big picture and that's what einstein always taught us to do look at the big picture on and when people laughed at einstein in the thirty's and forty's the young turks and the young physicists laughing at  bureaucrat right life is a bureaucracy you just don't know what you're talking about because if you come here i'll show you many many realize that is the life of the special and einstein even though people laughed at him for thirty years of his life at the institute for advanced study insisted there should francis that is a threat to the people who are in those specialized fields and they won't chip away at anything like that there's not systems analysis or comprehensive understanding of the exactly and for the last forty years of part physics looking at the products of smashing atoms billions of dollars of taxpayers money that's where all the money we're going to fermilab outside chicago going to the brookhaven lab in long island going to the s s e which was cancelled outside dallas texas gave his farewell address the nation warned against the military industrial complex we say right there he rigidly wrote that we have to warn against the military industrial scientific complex and he and his science a paradigm shift and never be visualised be a bit by a bureaucrat a bureaucrat does not even know that there is a paradigm that there is a reigning a mode of thinking and a shift in that mode of thinking is very threatening to up to a bureaucrat and because a bureaucrat could be out of a job that's right that's all you concerned about i usually is there is me this security of them in their family that's right so for the last forty years we physicists have quantum physicists have been bureaucrats and out of this we've constructed something we had the best shot that we have is called the standard except we don't have it so therefore we wanted to build s s e outside dallas texas eleven billion dollars to go to the next level what i expected the s s see to begin to find the glimmerings of was the we're talking about recreating creation itself we're d talking about a mini big bang out side dallas texas recreating the conditions of the origin of the universe itself and that's not how we've pissed it to the united states congress it's very unfortunate that most didn't understand what's at the center of a black hole because of the center of the black hole einstein's theory predicts it should be a time machine of all things we should be able to fall into a black hole of wind up of the einstein rosen world hall into another era of space and time another universe another universe and then the quantum theory came to a halt because we had the standard model the stupid ugly looking fieri called the standard model the best shot we had and it could not accommodate gravity and it could not accommodate gravity it was a sick theory and it was the best and as strings moved in space and time it forced the universe itself to curve the way einstein wanted to curve and here we now have a master synthesis here at the price of at the price of mathematics and a lion just because you see the tail of a lion doesn't mean that there isn't a lion that there's a lion out there you are out then also the idea of the trying to understand these things is that the space or the context within which they were trying to understand these things was too small as they would put it again trying to get to superstring theory almost in a certain sense force or gave us gravity table to accommodate for the standard model could not that's right and that's important gravity is for free and a good deal of what's coming out of the princeton advance center is compactified but being wrapped into a circle and then over here you have then the then its is this then is the mathematical expression of the central theme of the book although the laws of physics simplify and higher dimensions but then said so for the st time pure gem just given a simple explanation of why the subatomic world must necessarily exhibit certain symmetries that emerge from the curling up of higher dimensional space and you and the resonances of them is the basic stuff of which we could build a theory of everything if i'm not mistake that's right ok you see when we humans respond to an ice crystal we look at the beauty the cemetery of six point of the universe don't look like anything else the gravity does not look like light light does not look like a nuclear force nuclear force is not look like gravity however at the instant of the big bang we think that the universe was perfectly symmetrical that ice crystal cemeteries that we find in the atom were perfect cemetaries of the big bang itself and we know things that the big bang itself was actually took place in tend to mention a hyperspace that in the beginning before useless because you cannot have people if everything is perfect it's very boring in fact living in a perfect world but ringback it's like water boiler i think of boiling water they're super heated all of a sudden the symmetry of water is broken and all of a sudden have bubbles for quantum bubbles and these bubbles expand very rapidly but we've businesses believe that that in the beginning was nothing but nothing was unstable because in the beginning was the quantum and the quantum principle believes that things should be unstable when things compactified that is curled up into a little bubbles and these bubbles began to expand very rapidly and that is the big bang that was the big bang according to this principle the quantum principle of quantum cosmology says that the universe started out as a bubble in nothing cosmic nothing ok and the bubble began to expand very rapidly and that is what the big bang is so in other words the big bang has an origin that took place before the instant of creation that out of cosmic nothing water is boiling over time that there should be parallel universes out there that should be  universes bubbles forming frothing bubbles in the sea of nothing and that our universe is just nothing but one such bubble connected by wormholes little tube to these other bubbles ok now where did these bubbles come from they superstrings vibrations of superstrings is what is behind all that we are able to understand as existant within the universe that right now linux and lays in this resonance is that right so let me explain when a string of vibrates like a violin strain yeah it resonates right each resident is called a note a b c d right when a super strength vibrates it has residences each residence is a node called a particle a particle of universe right the universe is a symphony of strings in the same way that my body is i think what a symphony of d n a strings are as a symphony of d n a strings and suppose there is an operative within your body then all of a sudden there develop something that is like a run uncertainty in the universe but there it's moving across to entropy and bringing in priest priest patterns of understanding to the process of which we are a part has something to do with the biological evolutionary systems which seems to be operative within the structure of the universe that there is a residency the something more than the sum of the parts of a maximally and game system out of it put words in there that shouldn't be there but you understand something it's a couple things to chew on ok road and then we always regret and perhaps making the wrong decision at that for but we in some sense are at a fork in the road because if this theory is correct and i repeat this theory has not yet been proven yes se was cancelled that was our best shot to that's right but the greatest but personally by the way not to run the area physical restraints the star wars program get still four billion dollars a year four billion dollars a year three years of funding for a harebrained brained scheme called the star where it's just ok but a fully funded the the the window on creation and businesses like to call it but we are at a fork in the road in the sense that one part of the fork could take us to an age of aquarius that we are now on the verge of understanding a master of all fundamental forces nothing about that mastery of gravity unleashed what we call the machine age the mastery of electromagnetic force gave us the electric age the master the nuclear force which we haven't quite mastered yet but it has given us the atomic age and i think what happens when we master all fundamental forces we can eliminate poverty ignorance disease again not overnight but over the next several decades and centuries but look at the other fork in the road the other fork in the road we could literally wipe ourselves out because there are still on the order of five hundred and six zero nuclear weapons on the planet earth we are destroying the ozone layer in fact in australia new zealand that they have always on alerts every few days to warn people not to go to the beach we're beginning to have that of the united states yeah yeah the weather is your own this new thing that's just with the weather bureau is announce that they're not going to give the ultra violet days because it's degrading night about a half a percent a year with some parts of north america frightening or the greenhouse effect on my side so we're at a fork in the road an age of aquarius because we'll have a mastery of all fundamental forces or on the other hand universal destruction because of the destruction of the environment and the destruction of the ozone layer and the greenhouse effect now my personal point of view is as follows that on the big time scale now of thousands of years the people who will begin to harness this kind of force that is the ability to punch a hole in space to not talking about as in the future or it could be us in the future maybe tourists from the future maybe is it us but i look talking about little green men that you read about of the national enquirer when we persist looking out of space and realize as civilizations out there may in fact have been able to what is called drake's equation for the milky way galaxy now if this is true will we put this is looking at a space we have to categorize them by energy because that's what we're talking about this whole thing is about energy ten thousand years ago on an energy scale we were indistinguishable from the animals that's right the ice age was just beginning to melt we hunted in wolf packs and we were literally in the stink animal aliens coming from outer space would say that there are human animals crab animals and snake animals and we would just among them as the ice melted we had energy on the scale of our arms maybe an th of a horsepower we were very feeble creatures but what the domestication of a horse we began to have one horsepower  gland finally with newton's unleashing the laws of mechanics we had steam power and all of a sudden we went from one horsepower that is one horse to perhaps fifty horsepower that we could have in a locomotive a steam locomotive that  extended that then in a certain sense the extension of our consciousness which technology is gave us increased power right or technologically augmented capability to the environment other than that which was given that dryden like and then with the internal unique to the human species right because we're sending birds make nests and some things manipulate things but in a certain sense to manipulate the outer environment from internal consciousness and extensions of technology is rather unique to the human the essence of intelligence for good i q tests and that kind of nonsense yes of intelligence is ability to change the environment around you and we humans can change the environment around us on a on a scale unparalleled in the animal kingdom ok not very much at our disposal we were able to tap through it from magnetic spectrum but the nuclear force has not been able to deliver much positive other than you radiation therapies and hospitals were present were very primitive in terms of tapping into the a tremendous energy power is a piece of the sun brought down to the earth and the energizer machines with a piece of the sun now as i said before even that is not sufficient to manipulate the superstring theory that is to be able to create time machines and that's what some physicists are now proposing and the pages of physical review magazine to create wormholes that is looking glass universe where we can literally punch a hole in space and leap into another gallop you know that kind of energy scale is simply not for us even with our  now we have a question of survival of our species because we are quite literally physically able and you understand from physics perspective to with atomic weaponry to destroy our species that is our st time within about the last fifteen years  all the generations that have lived on the surface of the earth and we've been on the earth for about two million years the most important generation is a generation now living today because a stellar pick as mannion man they could not destroy the whole species at the same time with the greenhouse effect and ozone depletion and nuclear weapons fifty thousand dollars of them in the world approximately we have the ability for the st time to destroy all life now when we look in the heavens for extraterrestrial life we look for radio signals we see nothing out to one hundred light years were it out to one hundred light years of the earth we see nothing no radiation no television no radio now we as a planet have been broadcasting radio and television for the see nothing my personal point of view and this is very personal is that i think that when we go to the stars if we don't blow ourselves up and we visit these planets that are happy with like atmospheres we will see dead planets we will see planets with layer is blown off we'll see planets that are super hot because of the greenhouse a fuel that took the wrong turn of the road we'll see cities radioactive because they took the wrong fork in the road right ok now i only hope that we have the wisdom to take this technology the technology of all of the mastery of all forces now into an age of aquarius into an age where we can begin to grow on the level of technology now when we persist look at outer space we look at three kinds of civilizations type one civilization is a civilization that harnesses a truly planetary power they can control the weather mind the ocean control earthquakes their energy come from the center of the earth a type two civilization gets a say energy from the sun not just by solar energy when they need energy for their machine they go out and just grab a piece of the sun and just put it in their gas tank as a type two civilization a type three civilization is a galactic civilization one that has its energy from the center of the galaxy itself where there may be millions of black holes now on this cosmic scale think of star trek and as i'm off another science fiction stories now star trek for example would be a type two civilization because they're just on that there's no way of knowing we have an earth where there's no way of knowing and the fact that we see radio silence out to one hundred light years is not a very good indication and word of time then where we can destroy ourselves and we're also at a time i wonder if the verse of that again back to  he was he said he postulated that it may be that we were crossing a point where all of our human institutions had evolved d in the fundamental condition of scarcity but he said with elegance of design the  less being our communication satellites can communicate much more effectively the microprocessor and doing more with less with an elegance of design we might be able to transcend the fundamental condition of scarcity which had been the reality w in which human institutions had evolved and be able to see that we could build our institutions in a fundamental condition of understanding without raping the planet and being able to do it in an ecologically appropriate way and design with evolutionary process is of a unit as an organism rupert sheldrake talks in terms of morphic resonance e and sees the universe in organism terms and there's no distinction between animate and inanimate but we have a time when we have that opportunity of transcending scarcity and building a condition that is unprecedented in terms of the two hundred thousand year experience of the human species i will have a couple of minutes to fit that in ransom i think that scarcity has been the fundamental emotion driving human history that is if you take a look at the emotion that most humans experience right now at this very nd it is hunger hunger and of course the fear of disease are the emotions experience most by humans but on this evolutionary scale we're going exponentially rising and within a ten thousand two hundred years perhaps we can envision a time when civilization a civilization on the earth with planetary energy planetary resources a planetary government in fact unified because we have raw energy by which we can end the scarcity which has driven human history since we came out of this well i understand this one hundred years from now i'm talking about now  coming up two thousand whether we have transcended instead of it being an idealistic projection of what we would like to think but in realistic terms particularly with these energy availabilities that the physics show is the reality that the reality no longer is one the fundamental condition of the people within this system and ecological they reality of scarcity no longer is an appropriate model by which we are to socially engineer spaceship earth is no longer a pistol logically or  ontologically correct to have to say there is not enough we can say there is enough if we have proper design and proper institutions now if we're just as i o in the zero civilization situation to maybe perhaps have our most of the earth and most of the pollution comes not from the rd world come from the st right the rd world has even had a chance yet to pollute the world right and that's where tremendous danger lies china for example was to refrigerate its society it should refrigerated but that means that we have to discover technologies that will allow them to refrigerate their society without destroying the ozone layer with c f c s in the process exact so most of the world is still in the paradigm of scarcity and hunger the advanced sector that is the european sector because it reached technology st because newton and einstein and all these great minds were europeans that unleashed these forces on the earth they are this us the side he has to take responsibility for developing ecologically safe technologies by which the chinese of the world can also modernize without blowing off the ozone layer that brings in setting up the greenhouse right now brings it into a question of some people would say we are an organism that there's all this debt or is within the d n a thing that we don't need either  people we don't need do only a few people have to reach this state do we have to have a democratic order do we have to involve everyone is this orchestra one where all the instruments within the fill are monic orchestra of the human society play or can only a few play we have to work these things out this is the realm of the geopolitics of the rome of the existence of challenge the confronts us now lessons are brought to us from physics lessons are brought from for people with ecological concerns like yourself the book is hyperspace by issues will still be there for thank you really very very much indeed their pleasure as always talking with you pleasure for you to have histories of walk to again next week we'll be coming back conversations again next week addressing some of the issues have been raised here and