thank you you had to come in sit in the guest seat i would love to i have to tell you it's always so exciting for me to have live music in the studio so let me introduce you so my guest today is eric two thousand and eleven several concerts at the kennedy center a special concert at the united nations and countless accolades the eric matel quartet have been thrilling audiences of all ages with their electrifying jazz for over twenty five years welcome eric thank you and i'm only twenty five see that started when you were born right over zach and that's quite something so first of all welcome thank you thank you being the back to you too thank  so you know we used to do shows some time ago and i realize now that you're sitting there how much i missed them yeah it's the other like we were saying there's something about live music it's i always say this live music is the glue that holds the community together i think that was one of the themes we had a lawyer show yeah and i think it is so we have a lot to talk about but you know twenty five years is quite a track record so if and we're going to talk about the music business but how did you manage this for twenty five years well let's just put it this way you you know you the playing is the easy brief synopsis in one thousand nine hundred three i started my very first band and we started doing the college circuit and one of the things we were doing a tribute to dave brubeck who dave brubeck i found when i was around fourteen years old and i  was leaving through my parents record collection records where we had record while little budget finals coming back now but then i found this old forty five dave brubeck take five and blue rondo wallet or put the record on i had an instant connection with it so that led me to want to know everything i could on dave brubeck and then upon finding out more on dave brubeck i found out i learned more of life lessons than music lessons from dave really as far as work ethic goes what you need to do as a jazz musician or a musician in general to constantly keep working like what oh you've got to be adaptable to so many different situations you even though i had my band you know we still have to work in studio  but mainly i learned you know that's fire in the belly you know to take this music and i was doing a lot of regionals too so we started doing a lot more originals when we were also with doing the college circuit but it's just a thing that i want the music i want jazz in more into the public mindset than it is right now do you think it has lessened do you think it's kind of narrow down into you know jazz a sissy and i doze and then everybody else well i'll tell you we have been very lucky and very fortunate that when we do colleges and universities and even high schools and at the high schools have a good music program but the music program hasn't been cut which is the case sometimes unfortunately but the kids are sponges for the music they love jazz and so we'll go in we'll do a workshop on how to listen to jazz and the roles of different instruments and in a jazz setting kids love it and it's like wow i didn't even know this music existed even though they you know they've they're playing it cool they don't really know exactly that they may know the history of it but that the here and now what the jazz musicians role is in the world so they don't get that but they get the energy they feel the energy and that's the whole thing and then when we do concerts at universities two or even just concerts and communities people that people might not necessarily have listen to jazz per se but the way we're presenting it we always get people coming up after a concert and saying you know i never really listen to jazz or i never really like jazz before but i like your music tells me two things were were prison presenting it in a way that's melodic it's lyrical the general public does not want to be hit with a million a one note sets to say that but it's it's a thing that the album car jazz even though i like that jazz if you're hitting an audience that's not familiar with jazz that's in place to start you're going to turn them off yeah i mean some some  you will but if you keep it a little bit more on the melodic side and then leave them into you know the more adventurous side so that's kind of like what we try to do we tend to go out there but i was like to say we come back oh yeah yeah and what i like about that is this whole idea of educating like making it accessible because i think sometimes people are afraid to admit i don't get it you know and so it's  bunch of notes or whatever yeah yeah i mean basically you know in a nutshell jazz is like any other kind of music the thing is take a piece of music that you like take the a train or something like that maybe some of the pop tunes today there's forms to those tunes but the forms are not as clear you know there's a lot of different things going on but basically what we're doing is we're following a form and what we do is jazz musicians is we are just following that form and playing that form of the music over and over again all the chord progressions and we're playing those over and over again you've got an a section which could be the main melody the b section which is the bridge and then you've got another a section which is the out melody always and what we do is we keep constantly repeating that but playing within the chord changes things that obviously muse musically that we've learned over the years there's a lot of different rules right in jazz the idea is to learn the rules and then forget about the rules right it's like you know when you talk about improvisation it's like improvisational theater or whatever it's kind of there's a kind of a structure and then there's a free for all inside of the structure totally and that's the thing the beautiful thing about jazz it's there it's infinite there's there's you know that's why i love it so much is because you there's always so much more out there to learn and you know ways of voicing a chord playing a line so that's why i love it and that's it's like my going into my business keeps changing and so you know the story of the starving artist the starving musician you know parents always say get a degree first and then you could make music second or whatever and  there are certain things that are true in in business that you have to apply to the music world absolutely you know it's one thing if you've hired a manager who knows music and you can afford to pay them and they you know do all of your work for you but most people can't start out that way or even sustain that so what do you think are the most significant things that you've learned about business and music yeah you have to find a niche you know you have to find a niche for yourself and that's going to be with any business or any musician any artist anybody really you have to find something that you can specialize in specialize and that's that that's the keyword specialize in something that really makes you passionate that really makes you want to get up in the morning and and make it happen ok so how would you describe your niche my niche is is music like a well my niche would be like a new composition or my niche would be going into a school that i have a talk to about being an entrepreneur in jazz and oh how i can you know share my experiences so musician mentor educator yeah so you have combined all of that so having a niche what else having a niche and business wise thinking smart you know as far as like hiring people i fortunately work with great guys in my group nelson hill's saxophone dave mone on the drums jack hedgy on the bass sometimes dave ant and al who was here before with us on on bass and several other people which are fantastic musicians you have to be working with like minded people meaning that everybody's kind of got to be in the same mindset to take it to the next level doesn't make sense yeah in order to because you have to get there has to be the drive to do that if i'm the only one that's driving the whole thing asked like you know you need that you need so the extra people and everybody in this group is really like driving and trying to get to that next level and that's the that's the beautiful thing so that's one thing too you want to work with people that you get along with and you know it's that you know in jazz you know i've had a lot of players come in and out of the group over the years and i've worked with some great players some personalities click some don't but you know it's just that's just how it is and that's being an artist you know yes but the word the guys that i'm working with now you've got to have that it's almost like like having a band of brothers and even in business you don't want to be the person as a business owner you don't want to be loved you want to be able to work together  kind of the one who's creating the next gig and in the world of promoting yourself like you said we were talking about you have to keep reintroducing your new off to the public and even if they've seen you before you have to reintroduce yourself it's ongoing it's never ending never ending and that's that's also what i love about it too because we've met so many great people you know over the years we just came back from hilton head in south carolina at the end of august first time i was trying to get into this jazz club for probably a good maybe ten years got in there people were phenomenal and we had two shows sold out to both shows both nights and they were just really great great people and we've met we've go all the way down to georgia sometimes we've been out to colorado we've been to seattle we were in seattle get a standing ovation i mean first time out there again it's there so i always try to get the audience involved so we add a little humor into the show and we're always doing some different types of things and and all the guys in the group have been with have been in the entertainment field for a you have to have the same commitment you have to get along you have to kind of like each other you don't have to love each other but you kind of have to be willing to work it out and work together yeah you have to bring energy to it each and every single time you have to keep creating visibility visibility visible from oh you know what are one thing you know to be the rolling stone so you know that they don't have to go out and create visibility but there are very few people in that position well and the world is seeking you well any any band you know i've been twenty five years i mean i've been twenty years i've been building up my brand yes you know what i'm saying so it's like it's taken yeah you're never staffer and other thing i think that people have to get if they're interested in music is it's your building over a period of decades that it's not one stop shopping that it's not you know like build it and they will come right you have to continue to build well thank god now we've got facebook we've got we've got a lot of these so yeah the outlets which are phenomenal and that gets i've seen a lot of new people come out now a lot of new faces just because of the social media yeah and you have to with social media you've got to temper it in a way that it's not else yes i will i'll play something and then we'll chat some more yeah i'll play something else i don't know what i'm going to play but i'll play well that's the yeah that's the beautiful thing actually i wrote a tune recently this is called sun shadows it's more to it but thank you i know people can really get that you can be talented and you can be creative and at the same time you can have the executive function where you know how to do the business of news and i think you really have to have that nowadays it took a while for me to figure that out but yeah it was because you know just there's a lot there's a lot of components to it you know i get up in the morning go to the gym get set for the day that way and then go on to bookings and what i do is we're working on like four or five different tours right now so i'll work in wisconsin i'll work in an area they're calling places venue's down in florida and i'm working on another one up in vermont so it's like a lot of different lot of logistical things yeah so yeah a lot of phone calls and you know again i think it's so admirable because a mike it occurs to me that you're one of these people it wasn't a choice for you you heard dave brubeck and you go you know and i my my journey and i was fortunate to open up for dave brubeck at the kimmel center in philadelphia and also from that i've been blessed with a lot of really great opportunities but again it's things that i've made happen yes yes nobody no one will make them happen you've got to make them happen yeah and i think sometimes especially in the world of performance people think that you know all you have to do is show up to succeed once you know and yesterday successes yeah gone you know yeah you just have to keep moving got it wasn't to read some things to you because i thought this was really interesting i knew you and i were going to talk about entrepreneurship and music but i did some research and they talk about what business can learn from jazz so there's this one  the most powerful music because no single musician has the capacity to recognize and understand the total audience sentiment nor does a single musician have the ability to execute the total complexity of the music the purpose assembly of talented musicians playing different instruments under a set of common rules with the autonomy to execute what they feel or know is needed at the exact time it is needed produces a most powerful result and then it went on to say entrepreneurs can learn from this spend most of your time selecting the right mix of talented professionals lay down the right common rules that allow each player to maximize their individual talent without encumbering results ensure they have a keen and timely awareness of their customer and what will delight them and then let them play just what we just talked about what we just what we just touched upon was like getting good players and the other the other idea was not in a music's sense not telling them how to play right you know so it's kind of like you let their individual talents shine through oh give them the spotlight yes they talked about that that you have to be able to highlight and it becomes it's like a quartet but in dismiss it's a team and instead of separating them and having them compete against one another it's a riffing off of each other and allowing each person to shine that's exactly what we do every every time we play that's exactly what we do people say to me like do i get upset if someone's taken more of a solo or absolutely not i mean go for that i that's what we want we want each person's because these guys are so talented and i work with good musicians too of the one guy can't make it all get another guy coming in or  and i work with such talent musicians so let them let them have fun you know let that let that let them be in the limelight yes you know if that has no bearing on anything it and bearing it has it makes music better you know yes because it's exciting brings that level of excitement too because we're always trying to go to that next level of excitement we're always exploring new ways of  interpreting a song and ways of interpreting a melody so to speak you know you know it's very interesting as you talk and it is so this research that i did you know it talks about trends relating and taking that whole paradigm of jazz and improvisation and musicianship and translating into business but what about if you just look at it taking it into a personal relationship like it applies there as well oh yeah i mean you know it's you you if you could there's a there's a thing called compromise so whenever you're in a relationship you know it's always better to have two people working together rather than working through life's problems together rather than against each other because that never gets anywhere and if you're two artists in a relationship type of thing too i've been married i don't want to say but you know what i learned my lesson with a wonderful woman now when you're playing you have to be really present you have to be really engaged so it's like what happens in relationships is we kind of drag our past with us and then we get kind of dig in our heels as opposed to playing in the relationship and really like riffing with each other totally highlighting like supporting them shining and you got to find somebody to help you carry your bags  was interesting this professor at a college talked about how she wrote this paper and she said duke ellington miles davis and art blakey are widely recognised as three of the greatest jazz band leaders of the twentieth centur but did you ever consider they might be role models for entrepreneurs so she talks about each of them individually and she says a recurring theme in stories about ellington it seems was his talent for motivation and inspiration but it was coupled with what the authors called out let's say faire attitude towards the behavior of his musicians he saw their little idiosyncrasies and was willing to allow them  access to their talents but also to build those relationships so that raises questions for entrepreneurs if you have a creative process you have to have talented employees but talent is not always easy to manage to what extent do you accommodate wayward behavior he did and he was very successful at this whereas miles davis rarely chose musicians who knew each other because he felt he wanted to create creative tension where they didn't know each other and if you didn't work than your god knew musicians you know and that was his style and it worked and then art blakey his specialty was bringing on young musicians and kind of nurturing them and considering that their behavior was important that basically the bottom line was you have to work from what's important to you and decide which one really is workable for you but they're all places to l as possibilities so which are you most likely i'm probably most like boy that's a tough question because i just you know i let them i let my musicians like i said let them shine and let them approach like if i write a tune all right the melody but jack will interpret the bass hill about if it's a latin tune he'll give me a latin bass like i will tell him how i want it like this you know play a melody he'll play the melody with me or we'll play together he knows instinctively what to do dave mon drums he knows instinctively what to play without me having to say anything just because of the fact of all those experiences wrath and so i'm going to stop here because we're almost at the end of our time and i really it's so great that you talk about that for me it comes from you've built his relationships you've built this trust and you do a little bit about what all of them  outlets we are going to be in the princeton area in april we're going to be at the prince the library we we're working on a date over there so stay tuned on that and palmer square princeton jazz feast day give me a call it's also only been ten years