i think more of us are even chris hedges and others are beginning to realize that there we should follow the noah principle and that is no more awards for predicting rain awards only now what are we going to bill well the situation is pretty critical in my view the powers that be have  up the wagons in a circle and the national defense authorization act is i think probably the most revealing thing this is the one that allows us somebody from was a call now mccord  lewis mccord come in here and take mcgovern to an undisclosed location without charge or anything but just until there are no more terrorists you know that reversed history since the civil war when southern whites were using the u s army to bring in slavery again or reconstruction what they call it and now they can use the u s army to do this put that in there as if to say yeah right like the white house put it there we couldn't take it out i mean since when does you know it's not a telling thank the white house put it in there and then evers it all white h it in there so you know it was the executive and the congress now why do you think why do you think they want to make a law that stringent let's use the army against yeah yeah it seemed to me you know i was i was interviewed by out this right after it happened and it's empty rumors here now what's what's changed oh alaska several months the only thing i could think of was occupied and i said they were afraid of us you know up till then we had thousands but suppose there were tens of thousands and suppose there were a hundred thousand surrounding the congress and the white house and they couldn't get home to their cocktails no more cheney's in georgetown you know  respect to operating those things they have to walk through to make sure you don't have a weapon on you but not so much else district police police are increasingly aware that they are part of the ninety nine percent ok and you know small wonder that that they realize that so suppose something really happens suppose a flag goes up suppose we are surrounded who can we call on the u s army the generals such as there are  predominantly creatures of the system they'll do whatever it man says they're profiling career i hate to say that but it's true and the people who populate the so called volunteer army it's a poverty folks and that is a shame on our on our country these are mostly people from towns in this country of less than fifty thousand people and from the inner city these are people who have no prospect of a job or of a good education it's a poverty draft and they have been ingrained to do what they're told witness that terrible wiki leaks collateral damage or collateral murder thing i showed that earlier today and every time i see it it turns my stomach because it's not only the iraqis who a ping it's been the fellows in those helicopters as well brutalized so  so what are we to do well i found that in talking around the country that americans have a peculiar hesitancy ok now it's understandable who likes to be left at you know i mean  we don't like to start something that doesn't have a reasonable prospect of success right i mean like what you know who wants to who wants to hear what govern what you think what did you think you were doing turning your back standing up there when hillary clinton was speaking what was that all about what you know so you got beat it was you know well i don't know why i did it but i thought it was the right thing to do and you know we're not supposed to be worried about be in successful you can always be remain silent and that's of course with the germans didn't thirty's so everything when i got beat up by the goons hillary clinton this was a george washington university that folks i don't know about three years ago well i did was well maybe i just explain in my own defense i spent a lot of not a lot of time i spent some time in the soviet union and there used to be when a soviet leader made a speech there would be stormy fact that the women are subordinated and i couldn't just sit where used to sat on so i used to sit for the service i did that for four and a half years of my parish i finally had to leave put anyhow so i fix you know i did what i did then at holy trinity i looked right at the wall and it picked up a little piece in the wall and two minutes man who thinks you know this is going to work this because and the cameras you know you know and i hear hillary clinton talking about the necessity to have freedom of expression and it's really important you know in iran you know and she doesn't miss a syllable she just keep going then all of a sudden i see this guy come down with he looked like a redskins reject you know three hundred pounds it comes down just a suit on and he's coming down as oh i don't know what's going to have an hour before i could figure out what happened some guy grabs me from the back they lift me up and they carry me over the three women between me and   some of the footage to get out there what do i say this well i say this because i see some people around here that have the same color hair i do and when that happened to me the first report came out of fox news and it was pretty you know so so it said an elderly gentleman got hurt you know an elderly gentleman was thought to have a signing secreted you need to seek or it was felt that he might be willing to shout something out at the secretary of state and so he was escorted out of the out of the theater right ok all right escorted out a theater right but when word got out that this was when the pictures came out what happened to me i mean people care about people getting beat up real seriousness we have an advantage people care if we get beat up and i don't think they're going to kill us but if you're willing to take a stand on these things you're going to get a lot more reaction a lot more resonance virtue of you be an old guy like me and when one of my veterans for peace added that yeah he's got cancer luckily i had you know just just got into remission can kind of you know have our principles ok and we can stand on our principles but if there is nothing for which you're willing to suffer for those principles and i don't mean necessarily physically but you know if you willing if you're not willing to put those principles into play where you could get hurt where your compassion would mean you know actually suffering with more suffering because l and it's getting kind of late and i think that probably in the next year or two are going to be key and so i think we need to play a role we have to recognise our responsibility we have to be prophetic and we have to go back to the vision of the founders i've learned a little bit about the profits at this place where i work at the ecumenical church of the savior and i just want to see how a biblical illiterate at this crowd it's right in the bible ok now the question is what was he doing now the smart people study really hard to say well it's not clear and they say this without any humor you know usually what's under needs repair and needs some courage and needs as quickly martin luther king famously said there is such a thing as too late there is such a thing as too late and i'll finish just by  quoting a german that you may not have heard of he was a contemporary of dietrich bonhoeffer the lutheran minister who tried to waken up the church there and couldn't friends and other friends being wrapped up sent away he gathered a fellow following around himself and spoke out against what was going on ok and it was really quite quite significant that the they saw this fellow finally speaking out and so he is wrapped up by the ok and it was his confession and it was written in the form of a sonnet how many have german here yeah ok good ok well it's not sheesh and today i recognize what i was guilty of so there is that there is such a thing as too late a lot of you recognize that in our out there doing your thing already but we need all of us in this battle and we need to be able to stick our necks out and the less thing i'll say is that i do not have anything against next i've been accused of having a lot about against next but i think next a very nice they're convenient connections between head and torso i hate to be right but if there is nothing for which you'll risk that neck then it becomes your idol ok and next or not not deserving of idol worship so i don't have to tell most of you this but i'll say it anyway be willing to stick you next out be willing to do whatever's necessary to demonstrate that we want to be loyal to our founders vision and if we have to strip ourselves naked well that's one thing but we probably won't have to do that whatever we need to do we do it without worrying about was going to be successful or not but let's just try to do the good before because it's worth doing and and leave the rest in other hands in the hands of the coming generation and i know that i can i can be with my nine grandchildren and i'm much more comfortable way if i know that i'm doing what i can to make to future a little better so thanks very much  listening and i hope that we can just  i'm just wondering what a president gets every morning in terms of atheists security statement and what impact you imagine that has on a president coming in as a community organizer from chicago well it depends on the president and his experience or lack thereof but i can speak to my own experience and it was the heyday of that kind of briefing  because when ronald reagan was elected to be president we went right out to the pacific palisades with the president's daily brief with the approval of admiral turner our director and jimmy carter our kissinger before him we never set foot in the white house to say hello to the president to brief him personally they all took the p t p him marked it up and said don't worry about this when we disappoint dick you know this is foolish and all that kind of stuff but was reagan we got a foot in the door right off the bat we showed up two of us it wasn't me but two colleagues and he said he beat her president's daily brief and secret service and what does who are you talking to we don't know but you know you haven't  happened and he liked the treatment six mornings a week that was when i guy out there for two weeks next month come out the next two weeks and was how he came to washington it was judged to be a real success and he really liked it so george w bush's f george h w bush's face president said well ok you know mr president how do you want to set it up now i think that i should get one on one treatment toe as vice president and maybe secretary state secretary of defense and national security adviser but let's keep it to that because these are you know very delicate very sensitive thing and reagan said that's a good idea except except i think it's kind of early for me and so why don't you all get the one on one and i come see me bella one thirty and tell me what i or you should worry about so the good news was we want one on one with the very top national security people in the whole government every morning sixty's week ok  sort of not so good news was that we very seldom got see the president personally but you know giving those people these briefings and having them being able to compare notes with one another it saves the president off a lot of back and forth so they kind of knew what each one had been told and they were able to brief the president eleven thirty in a much more efficient way so it was the heyday of what and it was one on one you know senior analysts were respected enough and trusted enough  to do that and there were times when i knew that my superiors were lying about whether the communist party soviet union would ever collapse whether it got rich off was the real deal and i knew the trustworthy people who had been through soviet analysis with me and what we saw i got a pitch off we realized he was the real deal and so in briefing secretary sh i told him what the people i trust felt about it which put me at odds with bill casey the director and bobby gates who once worked for me as a young analyst who was the head of the cia head of analysis at the time so it was you know that was irregular it should have been necessary but it was possible to speak truth to power one on one now what did george w bush do as soon as he heard that briefers was going down and  george bush but george tenet or prefers to go down early in the morning for face time with the president he hitched a right kind of come with you in the briefing should have said no sir thanks very much but we don't need a director looking over our shoulder of course crock neo con fable we destroyed all of them after the first war that we don't think there are any left in this certainly not working on the name of the weapon yeah well he's going to say that with george tenet the standing right behind him well i think i would have said anyway but i wouldn't be briefing the next day so it's sort of a trade off so that even that got corrupted because you know when the party line is is this and you know the truth is that there's some difficult choices to make and i dare say most people kind of been with the wind i'm sorry to be so long winded please next question it just came out that arafat was found to have this tell us anything about the israeli attack on the u s s liberty that you familiar with the show i don't know why congress has refused to bring that case to an investigation before these guys die ok sure  well i don't know if it's sort of a no brainer the usual suspect would be israel had the capability and you know the circumstances clearly point in that direction he got sick there when he was in ramallah and we had a no it's no surprise to me that those were the results they're not final yet i understand but it's so you know and whether george bush knew about it or not probably not but the israelis rightly would have judged that george bush would be very happy to get rid of arafat's now the u s s liberty let me just let me just ask london to the london review of books that was the first place that it appeared they had a contract with the atlantic to publish it but when the atlantic saw the draft they said gosh you know we can't publish something this week get us a trouble with the apac with the israel lobby so anyhow after they published that i was on a plane going to missouri and so i read it and man i thought it was great you know and i get off the plane and i'm speaking in this church hall about th size but it was full of three hundred people and it was well you know toward the end somebody said well what did you think of mir shimer and walt's book or article and i said you know thanks for asking have just read it i think it's great but i have one big question and it was that i said well the whole thrust of the book is to show the influence of the israel lobby and they're right on about that but why did they not include the best example that israel can get away literally with murder murdering or naval officers and and get away with that and have since asked which one was  yes so i answered that i said you know i just really just couldn't understand why they didn't use the u s s liberty incident and then i look at these blank faces and i said now how many of you have heard about the u s s liberty what lockwood could you come up here and and share what happened sir i've not been able to do that but i think i'd like to try night and he came up and he gave ten minutes of rendition of what what it was like what he went through he was the commanding marine of all of marines are working on the intercept material and it was it fell to him to to dig out the bodies from you know from the where the torpedo came and so so that sensitized me to the problem here and nobody knows about the u s s liberty and so when i talked up in maine earlier this year i asked the same question and it was much like this but only about five of maybe two hundred raised their hands so it's good that you guys know about it and it's isn't it proof positive that the israelis think they can get away with murder and have in our congress you know when they finally decided to give the commander of that ship the medal of honor you know what the state department the israeli ambassador you wouldn't take offense if we were given would you believe it you won't take offense if we've well for you but so they did it not in the white has but in the navy and i had the incredible experience of honoring a guy named terry hollowbody t who is a young texan nineteen at the time seaman who volunteered to go across the napalm strewn deck and try to connect a wire with the antenna that hadn't been used it hadn't been used and so the israelis did know it was there they destroyed all the other day and tenney right away telephone call break off detect who's who's this secretary mcnamara and to his credit he said well you know my forces are under attack i'm going to have to speak to your  supervisor some of these navy guys have some guts you know when the johnsons on the other line is i want to call those folks back you call them right away we don't want to embarrass our ally saluted call them back thirty four hundred seventy one wanted ok and those people you want to talk about p t s d i'll tell you what p t s d looks like they were told not to talk to their wives children to their fellow crew people about it ever under pain of courtmartial ok and sharing terri hubbard ga got a medal from congressman and the central valley california i went out  kind of position where they can a big knowledge what happened to them people dug out the bodies from from where the top ito went in and it's so you know that's a concrete example and people need to know that i'm glad you're mention it sorry be so long winded but for those who have you hadn't had the story there's a website isn't there u s o celebrity dot org or something like that you can learn a lot about it it's not a happy story but it's one that we have to know now i have to say that the president faced down is really pressure to do to syria we did to iraq and so there are glimmers of hope here that the lobby doesn't rain completely supreme the right thing happened you know peace broke out on syria and just look at the people who are in high dudgeon because peace broke out and you see there are no kinds of people that really wanted this sunni shia thing to continue indefinitely because who profit who profits from that israel and not only in syria but you know sunni shia throughout that whole area so so there is progress and i'm happy to say that but we've got a really long way to go please first i have to question your your credibility be quick i grew up in monterey california when leon panetta ran for congress several of the most prominent republican lawyers in town announced their support of him and the county chairman of the republican party criticized them and they said oh you don't understand that this isn't democrats and republicans this is leon he's smarter than all of us and he works harder than all of us and he's more honest than anyone we've ever met so leon was the same income in congress smarter and harder working and more honest and then in the cia and at the pentagon he looked an awful lot like just another government bureaucrat i think that means that that's the final proof that nobody and nothing can stand up against the machine and that if we want to make changes it doesn't matter so much who we put in it matters how we change america's culture so that it will no longer support  all i can say is that i've been wrong several times of the last twelve years when i've been doing this but never wrong and when i diagnosed leon panetta as a guy who was going to save the intelligence apparatus i m look he was trained by jesuits santa clara santa clara law school they must have this ethos of telling the truth the most you know what's he he criticised torture a year before he was named you place awarded them stuff and he acted as the interface between them and congress defending him at every turn and in the process when he became secretary of defense  he was asking panetta now you didn't so much as tell us about libya you thought that you could just make war on your own don't you know that congress is given the power to declare war  price war in the first article constitution panetta the president's going to do what's necessary to defend our country period yes but doesn't it need to be authorized or at least discussed with with the congress the president has every right to do it he has to do it to defend defend our country and he's going to do it is that clear now who sit next to him but general dempsey now general dempsey is the real deal he knows what the constitution says and it was largely dempsey who prevented war with syria and i'll just say quick word about that because it's really the surface people understand it's not just conjecture on friday afternoon august thirty john kerry got up and said thirty five times we know  has leap level those chemical attacks on you know where we the president said that was the red line we know everyone thought quoting me that when the president got up in the rose garden the next afternoon he would say even as we speak cruise missiles are flying into you know what happened what changed his mind the israelis had already been warned that we're going to attack the cruise missiles you know because they had to be warned they want to put up their own defenses and we know that because he's really should admitted that so what happened well the clue is in what the president said in the rose garden what he say do you remember he said the chairman joint chief of staff has told me that there's no time sensitivity to this operation our forces are in place but we can do it today we could do it tomorrow we could do it next week we could do next month so i'm going to seek authorization from the congress well that's not the way things are going down now he said that and then the next day if more proof were needed it john mccain and lindsey graham descend on the white house who've never served and the new tough young gals you've got there they're really great people you know what samantha so and so and susan rice you know we know that you like those guys but they don't know diddly about war and neither does john kerry with all due respect running boats up against up at the mekong doesn't qualify you to talk about the possibility of a unbelievably small strike that now why could you waited to the u n inspectors come back and report i'm going to have to say it beats the hell out of me go as the president now why do i think dempsey was capable of that well because when our president was too afraid of the israel lobby to tell netanyahu this time last year not to provoke the iranians into some sort of netanyahu please pretty please not before the election after the election we'll talk about some more but not before the election ok and what netanyahu do we have this sign in the in the bronx thing maybe so i was that he have the president's permission to say that i'm sure he did it i mean that even chairman the joint chiefs don't go off on their own tangent but what he said to bomb it was look somebody's got to say it i realize you've got political problems you got the i don't but the stakes are very high mr president this is what i'm going to say in london ok and he said ok so that's the kind of dempsey we have you know he's a typical in terms of a of a general that's you know the generals get to be generals because other generals think they're safe and you know they get promoted in a pretty corrupt way but them see is the real deal and so that's a that's a real hope on the horizon here because i think he was at least well i think he was usually responsible for changing the president's mind and you know for once you know there are times when we can rejoice about these things i have real trouble persuading my colleagues and veteran intelligence professionals  israelis and that means us you know the israelis have information on us so yeah that's a real worry and you know there are a lot of things like that in this relationship my second question is what do you is that there's more hope now that with the russians and us talking together you know we worked out this agreement deserves most carry deserves no credit for apparently press his press spokesman just one hour later she says well i was just a rhetorical flourish well i mean i think you have to fix some things at their face value he don't want that lifeline he took it and so peace broke out rejoice and again i say so that thanks for that do it the second question was what do you think was the behind liberty a liberty ok good i thought well you know no one knows for sure and this is what the most important thing here is and that the fact is very clear nobody disputes the fact the israelis did it and they did it well the israelis thinking that they could pretend that was any gyptian or a soviet thing and try to get us involved more directly in the war more likely these israelis wanted to go up on the golan the next day without communicating with their forces and there was no way that the liberty wouldn't pick up those communications so that's one theory makes some sense to me that they didn't want to you know they don't like to ask permission they would rather they asked forgiveness they were going up there they didn't want the president abbas of saying don't do it and so they could do that if they destroyed the liberty loggerheads just get new us more deeply involved might have been a combination of all those things but again the important thing is it happened it was deliberate and you know this this combination of explanations is probably closest to the truth and as you know the most important thing to happen in a less generation so you know it's a good thing to raise it and i don't shy away from telling you where i stand at the official explanation is a whole bunch of lies you don't have to believe man that the guys that ran the commission multan and cain you know up there in jersey distinguished governor of new jersey previous i mean they were completely out of it that i remember when when cain was nominated to be the chair and he they said well now how are you going to do your business of being president of your university drew university in new jersey and do this job no problem i'll come down once a week and  and all that that's what he said you know and he found out later that you know it took three hours to get through security you know and to get access to this information then he wasn't allowed to to take any notes and then you know had to take the metroline back up to princeton so to get back to the hall that's you know that's how lightly he took his task and just sort of complain you know they're really not let me see so much stuff but what he should have done and what he could have done  a guy and hamilton that photo democrat who's been covering up everything since you run contra you know so that was a big lie that report ok and hamilton and cain have both said we were not given enough people enough money enough time we were not given enough access to sensitive information and so we were set up to fail that's not me saying that that's kane and hamilton saying that in their book ok so one might ask you know why did you tell us that when what was happening but you know even if they did probably wouldn't wouldn't be in the major media so what are the facts i've not been able to look into it as closely as possible but i admire greatly these people who have been maligned as conspiracy theorists you know that conspiracy is the nine eleven commission report you know and you know for people to be trying to find out the right answers to these things i applaud them you know i think they're great i couldn't encourage them more and i've read as much as i can about it now people say to me well don't you think don't you believe that dick cheney is capable of something like nine eleven that's what i say yeah i believe that but as you may recall i don't do faith based intelligence ok so it doesn't matter what i believe it's the empirical evidence that i have to go to now i'm not an investigative reporter believe it or not it's a lot easier to be an intelligence analyst because you have a little bit what with a leeway you can pronounce yourself with lots of probables and you don't always need two sources but i work for the best guy on the beat his name is robert perry he runs consortium news dot com he was the guy that not only had then a fight iran contra but all the north's role in it he found out that neither with newsweek nor with a p could he tell the truth so he quit in one thousand nine hundred sixty set up his own little website consortium news i am very delighted very proud to publish their first ok now he says rate this is really baffling because with a crime of this magnitude almost all was you have somebody confiding in his girlfriend and some bar and said yeah why not us the way this went down and i only thing i was i was one of those guys wiring up buildings and you know none of that happened you know there are lots of people that have theories and so forth you don't have that kind of evidence that you would expect me pause i don't know what happened tonight it's of building seven it seems almost a certainty to me that it was a controlled demolition but i don't know how that relates that so what i say is look we need a independent investigation for sure and we're just you know we're owed that especially with these guys these clowns saying you know we were set up to fail i mean while hollow since it's the most important thing that happened in this generation why don't we do it an independent job so that's where we come out on this i don't satisfy anybody by  sounding wishy washy i'm not wishy washy i think the so called conspiracy theorists are doing us all a very useful service it's just that i can't say that i know enough for satisfied enough to come down with  one of those theories and he brought down the congress and the supreme court on the same day so it was a very good year for the constructed industry and he ate the president's breakfast before burning down the white house which i think is as a mark of style