to more politics i'm your host bill ford anyone who thinks about the j f k case must conclude that a thirty fifth president was murdered and not by a lone gunman the idea of a grand conspiracy even forty nine years later is painful especially for patriots believing in american democracy according to my guess secret service set up j f k the c i a military and mafia the role played by j and j edgar hoover and the assassination were significant professor james fetzer editor of several books the kennedy assassination joins me we discuss compelling evidence that the lead insiders all right it's an excellent film belle and it's the most accurate comprehensive and encompassing version of what actually happened in dealey plaza on twenty two november nine hundred sixty three ever presented to the public through the mass media there are two flaws i would observe if one were to fall the film one as it's to assemble by half because while the film posit three sets of shooters actually there turn out to have been six and in addition at the time he made the film he believed that the home movies of the assassination including the brooder film were authentic which when in fact we've established that they were recreated they were extensively added want to come back to  evidence of oswald's innocence we certainly know he was not one of the shooters for example he was there observing let me interrupt you you're saying the man that the warren commission and later the house select commission on assassinations assassin you're saying that he's not well even the warren commission and its staff had to know it at the time for example he was observed in and around the lunchroom on the second floor at ten minutes to twelve at twelve or twelve fifteen as late as twelve twenty five by carolyn arnold who was executive secretary to the beis president the shooting took place at twelve thirty and within ninety seconds he was confronted in that same lunchroom by a motorcycle patrolman by the name of marion baker who held him in his sights until roy truly his supervisor arrived to assure him that this man was an employee who belonged there there's no possible way he could have fired shots of the president from the sixth floor brains out to the laughter where they impacted with the motorcycle patrolmen riding there so hard that he thought he himself had been shot but the all turns is an extremely important photograph levy had said he was out in front with bill shelley during the assassination caused me to go back and look at the all chance and i discovered that the face of a person in the doorway area had been taught to use skated well that's a it's an important film that the only possible reason dop you escape the face of someone is of someone had been there it shouldn't have been there in the only candidate for that role was lee harvey oswald which led me to infer that the face that had been obscured was lee's  patsy role that he wasn't even aware of well there isn't any doubt about it actually even why going our car who is the attorney general of texas at the time launched his own investigation and discovered almost immediately that oswald was an informant for the f notable is change the description of the wound that j f k had sustained to his back which was about five and a half inches below the collar and just to the right of the spinal column a shallow shot that went at a downward angle of forty five to sixty degrees with no place of exit to the base of the back of his neck which was a gross distortion of the evidence in fact we have the shirt and jacket that j f k was wearing him since it was at that lower location and not at the base of the back of the neck we have merely by establishing were jack was hit in the back prove that he was killed by conspiracy because on that basis we have to infer th magic bullet and that the shots to connally also have to be accounted for on the basis of other shots and other shooters therefore a conspiracy exists well getting back to oswald he was arrested  the first shots ringing in dealey plaza which would be kind of an amazing set of circumstances that would lead to him unless he was already set up it's even more amazing than that bill actually his arrest report is timed one forty an hour and ten minutes after the shooting at twelve thirty no it was real investigation and taken place at all and yet for the alleged offense of entering a theater without paying for a ticket a dozen police cars descended on the texas theater there was a minor scuffle he was brought out we have a mountain of evidence that shows that he was framed well if you don't have to frame a guilty man and yet the backyard photographs with jim marrs and i have studied extensively  somebody else's face its face posted on a pace on somebody else's body and we've confirmed that the man in the photograph has a block jim lee had a pointed chin with a cloud there's an insert line between his chin and his lower lip the shadows are just ri but more importantly the tips of his fingers of his right hand are cut off their newspapers he's holding the worker and the militant to communist papers with very different even antithetical philosophies and there are four of these different mean there's really no doubt about it plus jack white now deceased but a legendary student of the assassination was able to prove that the film was a fake by the photos were faked by using the known to mansions of those newspapers  our internal ruler and it turns out using those the man in the photograph is only five foot six inches tall whereas lee was about five ten bring you back to officer tippit lee harvey a going ten minutes after the hit on the president is in a movie theater but the following be slaying in broad daylight on a street of officer tippit who is in that area the special there for god knows why there was no four times three in the torso once in the right temple curiously enough after he was lying on the ground a woman across the street a quality clemons reported that two minutes shot tippit neither of them look like lee oswald for  wald to have shot tippit by going from his rooming house to the texas theater where he appears to have been headed to meet with a contact he would have had to go way out of his way how plaza is actually far more compact than most individuals realize until they actually visit the scene now you say it's kill zone this is because if you're going to snipe someone you need hug a long long beach on the target and you need to be close to really because there are lots of bushes trees buildings you know lots of places where assassins could be located and be obscure that's really the crucial part  turn violation of a ninety degree turn limitation imposed by the secret service in terms of its own biology does this  oh absolutely willing there was the only individual who could have saved a of case life once they enter the kill zone also emery roberts who is the an agent in charge of the security detail in dallas was a key player he left to his agents behind  love field who would normally have been running alongside beside the limousine and j f k s best form of protection all the limousines were arranged in the wrong order normally a motorcade is nothing but uniform black usually cadillac limousines in this case there were many different makes and collars and the presidential limousine instead of being in the middle was put right out front completely wrong anyone with a knowledge of security would have immediately saw that something was terribly terribly wrong but that was make it easier for the assassins to know his location and to site in on the target now the warren commission had a lone gunman three shots missed to hit and fired from the sixth floor of the texas school book depository is it possible that people in dealey plaza would have smelled gunpowder had that been proved well there are several aspects of your question bill one isn't in fact the f b i and the secret service both concluded that day that evening and to the best of my knowledge actually never deviated the secret service in the f b i that jack had been hit three times he'd been hit in the back by that shot i described originally five and a half times inches down below the collar that connally had been shot in the back and then jack had been hit in the back of the head killing him what disrupted or de rail this scenario which is that it turned out that a distant bystander by the name of james take it been injured by a shot that had missed which meant that they had to go back and subtract one of the three shots that had initially been supposed to have been fired all three he having by the way and that was what led created a cat scan and plot of the official trajectory and the bullet could not possibly have passed through his neck because cervical vertebrae intervene back to the question could you have smelled gunpowder dealey plaza finish was twenty six seconds so is it possible for a lone gunman using the kokang a rifle supposedly but will have i got more than three shots off in twenty six  account claims it was all done in about six seconds which is all the more preposterous now using a telescope you get a greater degree of accuracy if it's properly mounted which in the case of the  alleged to have used it was not but you have a tradeoff between time and accuracy i mean that that weapon had a very stiff bolt action everytime you would fire it it would take you off the target you'd have to reacquire the target it was uneven physically revised especially in relation to the shooting sequence i mean jack was an issue of shot in the throat by a bullet that actually passed through the windshield at about the same time he was hit in the back by a bullet that was fired from the top of the county records building  then of course there are other shots fired until he the limo was brought to a halt and during that period of time he was hit in the back of the head by a bullet fired from the dal tex virtually on the horizontal he fell forward jackie's the back well it's a question when you could ask whether the bullet that entered the back of his head might have killed him certainly the the back wound was an innocuous shot would not have killed him the throat wound was a relatively innocuous anybody that there was an effort to bring the the target closer to the person who would be fingered as the patsy in fact there appeared to been no shots fired from the sixth floor window lee oswald was only hired a few weeks before the after the assassination being escorted through dealey plaza chauncey actually had a long history with organized crime but also as a contract agent for the cia he was working as an agent at the los angeles stamp and stationery not atypical for a mafia type for the you're absolutely right and in fact in relation to cuba they worked especially closely together there's a great deal about it in the extant literature but he was directed by his handler ability to prepare fifteen sets of ford secret service credentials for use in and around dealey plaza he was worried about getting the color coded pims that they change from one day to another but he got that information in time he was directed to take them to a red pickup truck that would be found in the parking lot behind the grassy knoll which actually was used by the dallas police department and when he got there the pickup truck wasn't present so he wandered around dealey plaza he told me he saw more bad guys mercenary as an assassin's than you'd of the soldiers of fortune convention he went back in the pickup truck was there he left the the fifteenth set support secret service credentials and headed down toward the railway area where he hadn't been instructed to go with the two persons in his company one of whom was charles haralson the tallest of the three champs who is the father of actor woody harrelson another man he knew as richard montoya but it turns out to have been charles rogers who is the subject of a book entitled the man on the grassy kno l interesting now i know that there were fifty nine witnesses and some of them were police secret service presidential aides the senator governor first lady thirty seven do you think that the witness reports actually serve to confuse an obvious more than they help to solve the caper well the f b i was very clever for example they didn't question the ten civilians who were closest bystanders were declassify documents and records held by the cia the f b i the secret service and so forth george herbert walker bush former director of the cia who was then president refused to sign to appoint the members of the board af it passed over his adamant objections and opposition and therefore there was an eighteen month delay which required you know bill clinton to come into office and actually appoint the members which was really telegraphed to the agencies they had ha giancana now garrison seem to have had a tiger by the time because it turned out later although it was denied at the time as richard helms acknowledge that in fact clay shaw had been working for the agency and had it not been for the death of three of his most important witnesses garrison who had a sterling record and knew can while and with successful convictions and ninety nine percent of the cases he brought to trial would probably have succeeded in this case mastermind of j f k s assassination by phil nelson which explains what these powerful entrenched interests do after j f k antagonize them so profoundly as you mentioned to wit that he was threatening to shatter the cia into a thousand pieces he had not invaded cuba against the unanimous recommendation of the joint chiefs of gun and signed an above ground test ban treaty against syrian animists opposition he was going to pull our forces out of cuba was messing with the fed he was he had instructed the department of treasury to print united states notes i remember as a young marine corps officer holding one of those in my hand noticing in that a red embossed imprint said united states note he was cracking down on organized crime for the first time in its history bobbie had brought all kinds of indictments and convictions even j edgar had finally been forced to acknowledge the existence of organized crime after the job the laci hearings which made it so detailed that it was impossible for him any longer to resist and of course and i castro cubans would be too and flee to operate were keeping quiet well first i guess it wasn't kept quiet yeah that's not exactly right i mean james douglas in his wonderful book j f k and the unspeakable really unpack guy who had roots that trace back to james jesus angleton and even the most saw and then we had this shooter i mentioned before roscoe white was actually a dallas police officer was the closest but who i think bold is shot which was found in the grass on the opposite side because that would have hit jackie they were under very strict orders that jackie should not be harmed the shot that was fired from the through the windshield hit j f k in the in the in the throat appears to have been by malcolm x wallace from a an above ground sewer opening halfway between the roadway and the top of the triple underpass and he had murdered a dozen people for linen including one of his sisters he is with a marvelous shot and the last appears to be an air force expert shot who fired from the above ground sewer opening on the north side of the triple underpass which was the shot that entered the right temple and created those shock waves that blew his brain out to the left rear now you mentioned earlier kennedy also to be putting on the israeli government to stop their nuclear testing program that led to dimona is that true yes that is true that would implicate this is a classic case over determination there were so many groups with such powerful interests in having j f k out of office and replacing him with the policies of lyndon johnson including the texas oil man because jack was threatening to cut the oil depletion allowance millions of dollars a year and it was about to be linked to the bobby baker investigation bill the aft at the afternoon of the assassination the senate was going to hold a vote that was widely expected to tarnish lyndon so much that jack wouldn't be able to run with them and since then the government seems to have deteriorated who did really good for popular democracy what can be done willman that had some money to spend and now we have people that announce that they'll spend a hundred million dollars to get a candidate elected can we relate nine eleven well we can build on multiple grounds but  mention two quotes that are very revealing william colby former director of the cia observed that the agency owns everyone of significance in the major media and believe me there are cia operatives in all the newspapers and t outlets in the entire country and the other quote i would mention is from ronald reagan's campaign manager bill casey who became his director of the cia he was instrumental in keeping the american hostages bottled up in iran so jimmy carter would not win reelection bill casey said the agency will have proven itself to be a success when everything americans believe is false it may be difficult but can we get our government back it's possible but the interests of allied against us are so powerful that's going to be extremely difficult and requires a great deal of dedication by the american people but i can add that what they have to gain is regaining control of their own country professor jim fetzer i want to thank you again for informing us and giving his advice on giving back our government thank you very much my great pleasure bill