time once again for community form and we're very lucky to have back with us live in the studio this morning tom carpenter tom carpenter is executive director of the hanford challenge perjures current position he was the director of the nuclear oversight campaign for the government accountability project also known as gap from one thousand nine hundred five to two thousand from one thousand nine hundred five to two thousand and seven he helped establish and is a board member of the hanford concerns council and its predecessor the hand for joint council and formerly was a member of the hanford advisory board and he's here to give us an update on the many adventures happening at the hand for nuclear reservation tom thank you very much for coming and spending time with us a smarter they might pleasure to be here plutonium for our nuclear arsenal starting a war two and it's in eastern washington so about two hundred miles from seattle and it in the course of its operations it first made the plutonium used in the bombs dropped on nagasaki and then went on to make the plutonium for you know a lot of the nuclear weapons throughout the forty's fifty's and sixty's all the way up to  about nineteen eighty five eighty six in the course of that the hanford site became the most contaminated facility in the united states one of the top three in the world from the pollution resulting from operating nine reactors five chemical reprocessing facilities and it's it's well known in the region as a toxic nightmare so we've now been in cleanup cleanup to make sure the federal government didn't leave the state of washington high and dry with a highly contaminated site without you know making sure that future generations were going to be be able to enjoy that region without fear of contamination so we have a long way to go this this clean up is what it's costing the u s taxpayer about two point three billion dollars a year and is scheduled to go on for probably twenty seventy maybe longer so in september of last year twenty fifteen you held a press conference along with the question of state attorney general regarding the continuing and at that time it appeared to be increasing exposures to handwrite workers can you talk about that yeah you know one of the things that if that we're looking at at hanford and have for quite a while is the people who are performing the cleanup there hampered workers they are working around these large high level nuclear waste tanks and hanford has one hundred and seventy seven of these tanks containing about fifty six million gallons of high level nuclear waste so it's a huge massive two thirds of  nation's high level waste and you know this waste is dangerous and very small quantities like microscopic quantities it last a long time and we don't know what to do with it so currently the plan is get they get that waste out of these tanks which were built in war war two era in the cold war a lot of the tanks are single shell tanks and you know they're just their they've leaked a million gallons so it's an urgent issue to remove that high level radioactive waste from these tanks and in the workers who are accomplishing that right now are mostly moving waste from one tank to a next to the next so they did build so newer double shell tanks back in the eighty's those tanks are also starting to fail now by the way but you know part of the the deal with these is they not only contain radioactive materials but a whole kind of brew of chemicals there's over you know there's thousands of chemicals in these tanks and chemicals form gases and vapors and these these of course these gases vapors have to escape the tank as it will otherwise pressurized the tank and affect the integrity so those vapors are vented either passively or actively they sometimes say they put fans basically or vent ventilation systems on the double shell tanks to get that waste out of the tanks that the vapors and the single shell tanks are there passively that they just vent when they do well it turns out then that workers who breathe in these vapors not surprisingly become exposed to these chemicals and often get sick so you would think then that since this is this is been kno quite studied over one hundred studies since one nine hundred eighty seven that these workers would have some kind of required protection and they don't only recently because of the loss that you just mentioned hampered required the use of what's called fresh air which is bottled air and workers are carrying around these tanks on their back and they breathe the air through these masks connected to the tanks kind of like scuba gear but only some workers in the tank farms are doing that and the double shot tank farms for instance they don't require the use of that air there are exceptions for the use of you know this waste in a single shell tank farm so not everyone wears it and so there are exposures that happen and these exposures can lead to you know health effects that include you know  logical effects and you know of course lung lung disease and that kind of thing so the lawsuit that was filed in september was filed by the attorney general of the state of washington a hanford union the u a e local five ninety eight which is the pipefitters union and hanford challenge so the three entities we filed lawsuits they've recently been consolidated and were challenging hanford's failure to protect these workers so these suits that they wear sometimes should be noted that it's it's fairly heavy equipment and very contained in the last time i was in hanford it was like which was this last summer i believe visiting one of  visits it was like over one hundred degrees yeah so it's it's not ideal to have to wear supplied air or fresh air there are alternatives to carrying tanks around so you could have a big tank on a truck or on a dolly and run in air hoses and this is been done in the past but it's not being done right now the dollar alternative is to run the the emissions from these tanks through a series of filters like chemical scrubbers and charcoal filters so that the air that does come out into the tank farm environment where workers are breathing is has been cleaned but they don't have a system in place yet i think that's the ideal is is to get some kind of filtration system you know that does that but right now that's not in place and they're not sure how to do that and put this in perspective a little bit more you know the they've studied the head space of these tanks with the vapors collect and then exit the tank and one studies show they were there as many as one thousand nine hundred chemicals favors and some of them are quite dangerous fourteen hundred of the chemicals have never been studied for what's called an occupational exposure limit so they really they know their dangers but they don't know what what level and what it's ok to be exposed to  and finally many of these chemicals there's no way to actually do a field test to see which chemical is present and what concentration right so even though you might know there's mercury coming out  tanks the instruments that can detect that in the air maybe can detect the occurrence of mercury in the air but not at a level that's you know fine enough or exact enough to tell you whether or not it's a health effect so you know they're limited in their capacities and you have to be in the right place at the right time you know it which they rarely are when an exposure happens so you know if you've got a lot of these chemicals come out of the tanks you know then you know you're really not sure what workers have been exposed to so when people do get exposed they get sick hanford is unable to let them know well or their doctors know here's what you got exposed to in what amounts and what health effect that might have cost and so people are left wondering how the doctors are left wondering how to treat them for the various effects they've had if there is a treatment available so for instance it's very hard to treat people for military exposure right and it goes to the brain and it can cause you know neurological damage and this is a common symptom in diagnosis were seen at hanford these days is you know brain disease and brain injuries  resulting from chemical exposures and they're being diagnosed by doctors but it's kind of it's hard to get compensation when you can't say to the court for instance i was exposed to a certain chemical on a certain day at a certain time and this amount and that's you know where's your causation right here where is a doctor supposed to be able to say this is what you're exposed to and here's the disease you've got doctors are doing it anyway you know there is a presumption that you work in a toxic environment but it's still a hard slog in the in the you know workers compensation board or other channels for workers to get medical care following this and in hanford is no help it's fights these cases tooth and nail it'll spend a lot of money to you know say that they're a safe work site so they don't want to support these workers claims and they don't want them to get compensation or their monitors and or detectors surrounding and part of tank farm there there are but the real time monitors they can look for three chemicals out of the one thousand five hundred that might be present  and those include ammonia then there's a measurement called total organic carbon which is just you know a toxicologist once asked me says well what if i told you you had nine pounds of money in the bank i said doesn't tell me anything unless i know their pennies are hundred dollar bills and he goes exactly if you don't know that in nominations if you don't know the values or the you know effects or characteristics of these chemicals it doesn't matter you could be getting you know some of these chemicals are dangerous and the parts per trillion and there they look at their action levels five parts per million so you c getting very problematic health exposures and hanford would never be able to tell you so there's and then they also look for nitric oxide so those are the three chemicals they look for in real time and yet they've got you know basically the exposure level is permissible exposure level is zero and yet people are being exposed to this stuff and hanford is not protecting them so that explains why we are in court federal court asking a judge to require hanford to protect these workers with whatever it takes so you prevent getting these illness it's the law it's what they're supposed to be doing but because hanford is this you know legacy national security cold war facility  it's exempt from osha oversight for instance and it read itself and whenever you regulate yourself you can always give yourself a pass and that's what's been happening at hanford for lo these many years and we're tired of it so that's why we're in court that's why the union is in court and that's why the attorney general is also hanford to account on this and they've come half the way by requiring supplied air for some of the workers at the site and they need to go all the way protect all the workers and make sure it stays that way until they can assure the safety and health of these people doing this clean up into the future so last year how many workers publicly came forward being exposed it was like seventy two yeah from march twenty fourth scene until the present there have been some i'll say about eighty workers at this point who have been exposed severely enough that they required medical was out there when there was what's called an inversion you know all cold air came in and the temperature dropped by twenty degrees and a lot of vapors escaped the tank he was standing right there with a crew of people his nose started bleeding it wouldn't hospital he was kept for observation his lungs hurt and he started feeling neurological you know symptoms and his wife started panicking because he was a different guy you know he was he could remember where the bathroom was and some cases you know he went from being because a highly functioning individual to somebody who would forget from one moment to the next what was just said so he's to undergo an evaluation  is trying to get compensation for his injuries and the usual thing happens which is you know the system out there is designed to deny that anything ever happens and so he has gotten information from you know hanford that says well you know we didn't see anything in the air except maybe some mercury and then they said oh no it didn't that mercury finding we just gave  that was a mistake you know was probably less than what we said it's like based on what so there's there's all kind of funny business going on they never reported this incident we're not even sure that they issued you know a procedure saying that there was a vapor exposure so this is this has been happening there was another exposure in the single shell tank farms in september late september where a worker was in the in the single shell tank farm but not where he supplied air he wasn't required to and he got this big hit his lungs started to hurt he basically has trouble breathing now he also hasn't had back to work and doctors are still scratching their heads trying to figure out why  why this happened so you know this has got to stop we can't afford to keep damaging and injuring the workers doing this cleanup because eventually we won't find people to clean up number one and number two i unconscionable right this is you know we are relying on these these workers to do us a favor as a society and get this this place cleaned up and they deserve to have a healthy work environment just like everyone else and it's not happening and it's not for lack of money you know two billion dollars of cleanup money goes into the hanford site every year there's lots of money floating around but they can't find enough money to protect these workers while they do this work  and there's been a long long history by the way of you know i mentioned this earlier knowing that these vapors are dangerous you know there's been expert panels that have come out you know and when there's a lot of press and congress starts asking questions hanford traditionally will put workers on supplied air for a few months maybe as long as a year and then they take it off because the klieg lights go off the reporters go away and it goes back to business as usual until the next time so we've seen this happen we've been studying this for quite a while and finally said enough this isn't going to happen in the future and we're not going away until we either get a court order on hand for this as you will continue to protect these workers and increase your protection to cover everybody or there's a consent decree where we can take them into court to make them do it once they forget once again what they have to do to protect people diseases as a result of having to work at these facilities without good protection so that laws been in effect since two thousand i'm a zing lee in december of two thousand and fourteen the u s labor department which once again makes the decisions as to who gets compensation and who doesn't issued a memorandum that was said to all the the agency essentially well when you're dealing with a worker that has  or injury result from a chemical exposure after nine hundred ninety five you know they've done such a good job at these sites and protecting workers that they you know there's basically a high burden for them to be able to show that they deserve compensation and this you know this was an mot you know unmoored from reality you know it was like why it's you know every study that has come out has essentially said over and over again they're not protecting the workers they don't have the infrastructure in place and they have no idea what people are getting exposed to and there are numerous workers dozens and dozens getting sick almost every year you know not just at hanford but at other sites so where what is the rationale behind this memo so finally it caught the attention of this newspaper chain mcclatchy which did a series on it and congress is now of course looking at it and hopefully will get a change in the air but it just shows the you know the mindset of denial that is in the system is in the federal government and at the heart of it of course is money they don't want to pay out compensation and this program is costing a lot of money will guess what it's that's what happens when you make you know sixty five thousand nuclear weapons and all that plutonium needed is this is part of the legacy now that we're going to have to you know pay to compensate workers and to clean up you know the mess it's been left over and it's going to cost hanford clean up is probably going to end up costing one hundred thirty billion maybe a hundred and fifty billion we don't know because it seems like that figure never changes year after year after twenty years so it just keeps going speaking of figures that change year after year briefly touch on the vitrification plant that  supposedly is a key component right out there well if so i talked about those high level nuclear waste tanks with all the you know the fifty six million gallons of high level waste waste has to come out of those tanks they are a threat to the river to the groundwater they are leaking they will leak they will all fail so the plan is to remove that waste from those tanks and pump it out into a facility that's under construction called the waste treatment plant and we you know we like the idea everyone likes the idea of mixing this waste into glass so it forms the glass matrix which will be a stable form you know for hopefully thousands of years and put that into you know deep geological repository far below the water tables and it will just to carry away harmlessly and not get into the food well hanford has had a very tough go of it they they hired a company back goal and another one you are asked to design and construct this facility has been terribly mismanaged the designs have proven to be unsafe there's been a whole bunch of whistleblowers that have come forward with these safety problems they got fired yet they were also effective in bringing forth  message that this plant is not a safe plant so the congress and the deal we have basically the department of energy have had to go back to the drawing board start redesigning these facilities meanwhile the state of washington which says hey we're supposed to have you know glass vitrified glass a treatment out there twenty twenty two or even twenty nineteen and depart of energy says well we're not even going to make it right so they're in court over that issue about when he going to clean this up and deal you refused to say when bill finally the judge made them say when and of a not a month ago the department of energy filed formal papers you know with the with the judge in the in this case going on in eastern washington in federal court and declared that the opening date for the waste treatment plant would be twenty thirty nine twenty thirty nine while the original opening date was supposed to be and said well it could take you know it could be other design and engineering problems and technical issues that come up come up so that's caused quite a bit of consternation about whether or not this machine will actually even ever open and if we should go back to the drawing board and figure out what is going to take to get those ways treated and enhance or cleaned up in the long run it's been very frustrating for all concerned so it sounds like the all the positive developments coming out of hand for it have been from individual citizens and workers who have brought this about organizations like yours right where is our department of ecology on all this aren't they supposed to be going to bat for washington state citizens well you know they don't they absent themselves from protecting workers so they say you know we only look at the environment of gratitude to the attorney general for recognizing that and going to court over that you know that part of ecology has a very spotty record in overseeing the hanford site we've been quite disappointed and number of ways they've had a lot of inspectors that have left the agency in there because they got fire they resigned in protest over you know the lack of effective regulation at hanford and there's way too much insider dealing  too much deal making going on and not a whole lot of oversight that should be happening so that's beginning to change under inslee and maya balun so we've seen we've seen a change in moving in a better direction  there but we want to see you know we've got a ways to go there yes so the ecology does have the responsibility but it needs to do better at exercising its authority and one of those authorities i believe is they  fund some local organizations like yours they partially fund local organizations like yours and they're cutting back on that at a time when it's seems like it is most critical to yeah so public participation money comes through the state and they recently announced that two organizations won't be getting money to help do that oversight and that was devastating news so columbia river keeper heart of america jerry pilots group neither are getting you know neither of those groups is getting funding to help on public participation because of a recent decision made by the depart of ecology to not prioritize contaminated sites like canford when they when they hand out this money as a diminishing you know fund that's there and we're asking the department of ecology hey why don't you go get the money for public participation from which is what the law requires and it's what's in the tri party agreement is you know they're supposed to fund the aspects of this complicated site that allows organizations to translate the very complicated cleanup  scenarios at hand for to the public and to get public comment and things like that going on which is a large part of what hamper challenge and all the other groups to so the very groups i rely on to inform me of coming public hearings about hanford because i don't hear from the state right are getting their funding cut so i will happily yes that's so we are just about out of time we're talking with tom carpenter he is executive director of the hanford challenge and  your organization has your yearly gala event coming up here yeah we do on february twenty sixth encourage everyone to calm that's how we get a lot of our money and it's going to be a friday night pacific that we're out of time i want to thank you very much for ok thanks for having me time once again for community form and we are very lucky to have with us live in the studio this morning joe ingram joe ingram is an associate at the interfaith task force on homelessness and executive director and founder at homeless out outreach he is also on the state advisory council on homelessness and the co chair of the balance of state continuum of care for thirty three of the thirty nine counties in washington state joe thank you very much for coming in and spending time with us this morning well thank you i'm a little intimidated with all these things but that's ok no worries it's just you and i and  our loving audience so don't be intimidated so start out tell us tell us how you got involved in this issue and about the organization you founded homeless outreach well how i got involved  homeless and and i slept in the ballard fremont area wallingford area and it's funny it's because our goal in life like this i would walk a lot and end up here at the seattle center and sleep in court you know and but what happened was i ended up getting up with the service of the veterans administration because i am a vet and the guy that did outr and and i started as a publication and from the publication it went i put made a mistake i put my phone number on there and people started calling me and then i had to learn all the resources out there and i moved from coraline to redmond and i started going to tent city four and it just exploded from there and now and you see i'm from those i end up getting on the balance of state which i am now the co chair of the chair of the veterans homeless committee on that and so we're changing the way the balance of state continuum of care does work and that's not king county you're not one of them thank you and and so that's how i got started i went from being homeless to a provider i don't have any m s w l l m see things after my name i just have me and i'm not a big organization don't have funding i get a very small stipend for the unified task force on homelessness and so more things come out of my pocket and i'm on disability i want to have society and i'm on section eight so i know how it feels to have the services people from search to treat me and treat other people that are homeless and it's a real stigma because they sit there and go i don't i'm moving away from from your question into what i really like to talk about is you know you go and you ask for help and they go well help you but you have to stop drinking stop drug and you know you can't show any mental health issues at least not in the housing you know anything you learned on the street you have to and so be in a tobacco addict like i am as we got done with this workshop and the workshop bill block was the lead on it said how do you become friends with someone that's homeless you know which was and i love bill block immensely but it was just way too warm and fuzzy for joe i went outside after the workshop after ninety minutes of it and we're going to have a cigarette and there was a guy obviously homeless trying to make a cigarette out other people but and when you don't have money you live on the street you do stuff like that and i walked or i gave him a cigarette and a noose myself and started talking to him and then a gal came out now would you take it and the guy not two seconds did he think and he looked at me and said i would but be really really hard because i've been doing what i've been doing for so long i don't know if i could change and it didn't hit me right then and there but what it said to me later what i really heard was it's not that people don't want housing they're scared of doing something different and so when people say well they don't want housing i'm going no they don't know what it entails and so my job inside myself changed from finding someone to housing to preparing them to succeed and housing and i think that's a real key thing because providers don't think about that and i get calls from other parts of the state i know i'm waving my arms all around other parts of the state from providers going you know i do we help them stay in health and when they get into housing and i go why are you doing any not just supportive services but helping them get a new social life and they go you know why and i go because you know they've given up everything they know and everyone they know years ago tacoma did  happened was they invited all their friends and there was nothing to replace that security and that's social i'm looking forward i can't find it but just thing you know it's  don't people when i'm talking to him when you get housing the only thing you have to change in your life is everything you know and it is really a lot like the old twelve step program of when you changes everything and it's true but the first change has to come from inside and and i know that the one night can happen just was a week ago had a raise in homelessness last year and but the programs in the city and the county still want to do what they've always done expecting different results and they don't want to do it with the same people job but they still want to do it but they've always done it and we have a whole different population out there now we have more families than ever before we have more single women and when they were done with the end the intake end of you would say great don't call as well call you and people were just left hanging and so now they're trying they're going to do a different type of coordinated entry and hopefully it will work but when it happens the providers don't tell the people they're serving the whole story and so sleeping on the sidewalk that's not a safe place that tonight when it comes to families going to a place that you have to walk in eight to nine o'clock at night and get kicked out between six and seven in the morning and maybe save for them at the moment but it's not a safe place you know i  stood there talking to mom and dad while the kids were in the back to the car doing their homework you know that's not a safe place that's not a learning environment and what happens is it become generational because it becomes or standard that their comfort zone and so the kids who end up growing up going does what it's always been for me why should i change and they don't see the and i say that they don't see the american dream what they see is next me or what i can get out of it and they're not htat that giving is a different form of getting and they're not caught that malevolence is starts inside you and it's not the church giving you a twenty five dollar gas card or twenty five dollars safeway turd it's how can i help someone else and i know it's probably a little bit of my religious background my faith is  service come to first and when i go out and i talk to someone i don't say what do you do it for yourself or what are you doing here what do you do that i'm going out that program of these people make you feel and that's a key question and the answer to speaks volumes of what where the person is that and where they've been and i was down in libya a couple of months ago and one of the guys from commerce took me out to lunch and going back and since i'm i'm a big guy and i'm on a diet because i need new knees and the doctors don't operate joe i lose some weight joe i had a lot of left over to walk him back to the car there was a bundle of clothes next to my my car and i olympia but i can ask those types of questions and what happens is the person says he chairs about me as a person he doesn't care about the numbers i represent he cared about i go because i told her by my actions that i cared for her you know and  doubly ask another question so i can this illustrates a lot of your work i know through your postings on facebook and this elice seems to illustrate one of your frustrations that came up about a week ago after the  shooting in the jungle quotes around that where you pointed out that oh this war this horrible thing happened and typically that the politicians came out and  with their package compassion and then the local organ like you were just talking about the local organizations came out and said well we'd like to do more but the requirements of our donors don't allow us to really work the solutions and it and it ties into your other criticism you have with the big organizations in the state that they aren't really that you're not allowed to people like yourself and people doing work like you're doing don't ever get invited to the table when it comes to coming up with the solutions although it sounds like you're getting integrated at least at the state level on some of this so can you address that we only got ten minutes left to do so i told you it flies by oh  thirteen and seventeen year olds and it was from a drug deal that went bad or dad probably their mother who was homeless their dad had been out of prison pretty much out of the thing and this is what is being dot to the next generation and then the i'm going to pick on the cities seattle is and i love the mayor he is a great guy he just doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to policies by lot of fair we'll because they give people a safe place tonight and that's essential but there's a lot of people like me bill cohen hackett that you services  and we don't have the constraints that the pundits put on it's because we don't get funding and so and i did what i tell people i deal with the hardest to serve everything that everyone that the program don't want to deal with i end up dealing with them and you know i will complain about silos and that type of thing but the key because what the mayor has been doing lately is pine but he hasn't time and i give these out all the time but the mayor's office doesn't talk to me or bill current hacket new do the county they know about me so you know the thing is to get people involved the more people that the city and the county bring to the table the more communication that can happen because if they're going to keep doing the same thing with the same people and expect different results isn't that like a definition of insanity you know and that's what it is it's insane because we're not going to get different results you know they don't look at an individual person that's homeless as an individual they look at him as he's a funding stores and so i'll do what i need to do to make sure i get my funding so i have my paycheck you  know i've been on the board of directors of a couple outing providers and i love i'm alive i'm all you know is just that the purchasing they ask themselves is how is it going to affect our funding how is it going to affect the way we're perceived and i don't care how it affects me you know i'll go out and and people that are homeless you know they're not there for me i'm there for them and i don't tell them what to do i ask them what they want to do and i help them get to where they want to go part of my ninety second pitch when i first meet somebody is i one i won't make any promises because of my problems made promises outcomes i'd be lying to you two is i'm here to help you get what you want not what some or educated out of touch person said you need because they've got the big fancy office and i don't you know and people appreciate that they appreciate even if it's kind of crude at times they pushy ate the fact that you're honest with them and they appreciate the fact that you're up front going you know just what i can do and this is what i can't do and i don't if i know you've got to jump to i'll tell treatment whatever it is you know and there's some people out there that can never live alone and so part of person and an apartment where he knows nobody they're going to go back to where they are most comfortable they're not incompetent they're just never going to be able to handle everything alone and we don't have anymore i hate to use the term group home but like a group home type setting shared housing and i would love to get more shared housing out there i helped a guy years ago i know it's almost time isn't it help the guy get a shared housing thing started in yakima and the landlord would like apprehensive at the beginning and all it and he's watching these people move in together and get and i mean they start taking showers every day they start getting clean is dirty looking for work you know couple of families were living together in this duplex and then he had four or five individuals and always on the landlords going you know what if you save x amount of money i will match it in this time frame if you do this i will do this and he sort get involved with the people and then he turns to my friend and says i will build whatever you need you tell me what you need and that's and programs don't do that programs go we're still conserves agency and you're a landlord but we're going to treat you like a social service agency and landlord aren't that their business people and so so when i go out and i talk to landlords i go if i can put someone in your property i want to make sure that they can pay their rent they're a good neighbor and they're not going to store your property and if you have issues then here's a phone number to call twenty four seventh's i want you to answer it and if someone doesn't answer it at three o'clock in the morning they will respond and the first hour of the next business next day and business i felt like ninety five or it's whatever and it worked landlords appreciate that you're not asking for charity you're as going t because we don't have we don't have enough housing anywhere in the state to how is everyone you know and that's why our numbers are going up for likely high or plymouth housing  build housing it takes between three and five years to get it built from the time they say there's a piece of property i own that property i'm going to build there to do five years and so did not an overnight answer nothing happens overnight you know and i'm always going to go back to take in the time with a person that's homeless and he's housing the family and learn about who they are what they want where they want to go i'm a big big advocate in point and point at the same time i also know that just because someone's homeless doesn't mean they're stupid and talented and all this stuff do you can best fit in let's find something that matters what you can do and we still want to grow and my best year before the county took over all the housing and housing placement was a coordinated entry i assisted use of me as an individual sixty three people off the street one year into housing and what is it twenty seven of them went from the street to market rate jobs and market rate housing with not one penny of government money and it can work it can happen that is one of the many things that amazes me about your work is reading about how you you're doing this all out of your own pocket i mean you're constantly year i mean just amazing you're just every day you're doing it appears every day you're getting up and doing this you're handling calls at home you're handling stuff in the middle of the night and and with very little assistance although it looks like people can contribute to your work as individuals how do they do that they can write a check out to the  four and then if you go on my facebook page i sometimes put my link up to my pay pal you know and it works too that way that the money go directly to me it takes three days to go from pay pal to the bank one of my biggest issues is i end up spending my money you know whatever money i have on the people i serve whether it's buying them food buy in a mood buying them but it's all about for me it's all about the people the across to me i will meet somebody and ask them in not so many words trust me ok thank you i love this place i love your new studios thank you