ago you know welcome welcome very much to conversations where it's a pleasure to welcome to the program for gentlemen to represent an organization called the torah card and we're going to be talking and great in great length about that it's a very interesting organization with a unique perspective on the situation far as the middle east and jerusalem and some of these issues that are so much in the news now we're doing this program on july th the year two thousand and the the talks at camp david between m arafat's just been renewed with mr bush coming i mean mr clinton coming back from japan from the summit meeting and so what's all the nation all the world in the real sense is focusing on the question of israel and with the possibility of there finding peace there and i do want to introduce to guests now and then we're going to go briefly to a little brief interview that had been done with mr arafat's sometime back but if i may i'm my own my far left is rabbi issue out feldman on my far left is one of the members of the of the of the organization here the new torah carta and i'm i'm in the middle on the left is rabbi hillel dog who was also there all members of the tour card my immediate left is rabbi israel david weiss and on my immediate right is is rabbi william weberman and gentlemen welcome very much to conversations and to manhattan network and we're going to have a great deal to talk and i do now we want to just set it off now because we had i had done a program and it goes way back for those in the audience you make note this is a little interview we did with with yasser arafat when he was in tunis in tunisia we did this  and eighty nine and in view of the fact that this is so much in the news now we have a little piece about three minutes or so with yasser arafat we're going to run that tape now and then and then we'll come back and we'll get into a discussion about the new tour card so they could set up that how we should act if we're following god's teaching now and they told us that they thought of wanting us if the period of time that the jewish people are doing and god is warning to the jewish people that they will be bent out of the land expelled from the land if they will continue from their  father would be a bad father he would give them candies instead of the medicine and we appreciate that being that we know that everything is in the hands of god we know being the torah we accept upon ourselves i'll just print that one other word that beside that we believe as torah jews we believe that there's a god we believe that he's constantly with us he didn't just create the world and leave it  everything that happens to the person and human being and to everything on this world is directly from the hands of god do you feel this way would you be it would have the right to say that you are in a certain sense in relation to the torah you have a fundamentalist faith in the torah or the europe but every gentile at that time when the machine will come we believe will every person will recognize that there is one god and the world it is he has created and he's watching it and we are here to serve him and all the nations together from at that time will serve god  that time everybody together will recognize will go up without any military force i will never go addresses maybe in some of the others to jump into a little if you want but i mean in terms of the torah rewrite of that which is given to you as the word divine word as it is i've given to you the terms or the means by which this the appearance of mushy a right or my science or the means by which you will relate to the world and that time that in time i clearly spelled out in your view i know a couple of years ago israel now which is a zionist country representing the jewish community and there's a great debate and so what there was a popular song though the most popular song in israel one year was the moshiach isn't coming he isn't even honing they were in a certain sense saying that this idea of the moshiach coming is something that secular people don't believe in these things is a legend from the past we're now moved into a secular world we have to understand things in the new way and i also wonder how do you relate you people relate to frank touched on exactly what you want to bring out here i'm going to answer you but just let me finish this is that i like to say that being that we accept that this exile and everything is from god than that we are here because god wants us to better our ways  united about one hundred years ago and they came they were the problem was that they were atheists why is that a problem i mean well well you if that's going to connect that would reform conservative the isn't the problem because god has a purpose in this world we are here to certainly give us the pull of the jewish people are connected to god we are bound to god through the through a a bond that we've accepted upon ourselves and that we will never break that we will always be characteristic of the majority the vast majority of the jewish community in exile in england and in russia and in poland and in and out of the in and out of iraq all of them was this mind and something has changed in the last one hundred and they will interpret it differently and they very much support then gloria yes and the establish the router they suffered the holocaust they said never again will not be weak we will not allow this to happen we will set this up and ninety nine percent of the jews of the now if the reform that broke that made the jewish people weak that's why zionism was able to be born the ideas i nisan was that they didn't believe again in the told the way it was thought they didn't believe that god is watching elsewhere let's show the world is becoming secular looked at all the persecution of jews and judaism as a problem that needs a solution his solution being the refuted god was to make a state and run away or make your own army now that is a blast you m that's what they're talking about camp david now or explain to you being that the at that time all the jewish quarters the religious jewish refused to accept them but unfortunately by holocaust when the jewish people were unfortunately mostly wiped out than our grabbed that ass and that's when they were able to grow so much well maybe that's not such a bad idea instead of instead of going passively and marching into death can death well i want you to stand up be strong rather than we may be that's not such a bad position and many people think that's a good idea and they pulled it off and they did it successfully and they're not got two hundred atomic bombs you're all right looking at it as not as a sexual view you're looking at that but if you look at all the other worthies the world it wasn't right but if you if you believe that there is a god and so the fact i'll give you an example if you take a dog is being hit with a stick and he bites the stick there's a master behind the six that is exactly why it is a mutiny against god and it brings the ire of god on the jewish people because if  g that they're saying we could we're not going to walk passively into the concentration camp right refuting that whatever happened was in the hands of god and by by having a mutiny trying to leave exile without a rabbi so what then while i don't have a solution could there be a solution or you could say hitler was an once like i said because they were atheists and they went to look for a solution because they had a problem which we don't have the problem with they were atheists they didn't see any way to escape persecution or they didn't realize the persecution and all medicine that god is giving us and we have to accept so they by step being an r c this is an atheist movement as because the whole idea is that they don't believe in punishments and rewards from you if i mean particularly the jewish you're talking about are you talking about the world the world has become it's called a modernist movement it's called modernism is rather old the secular as i'm sure it's called science is called albert einstein and relativity and it's called all of the jurors people studying medicine and doing the rather than tell me well they're studying all kinds of things in the real world and they're building a modern world that is materialistic y based and grounded and the world it could be coming that way if with not only did you have the but you could be modern and a very good jew modern that is not there's not a lot of people who are modern think that the traditional way they israel shock or i would a program with him he said two thousand years of the oppression of religion on the people the pressure of the religious taking all the people in they can flower and become doctors rights lawyers  show here of you demonstrating at the u n and it's about five minutes or so and it's a little grainy again and everything like that but if you did it might be a little bit hard for some people to see because you got the sign saying israel is evil and these kind of things it might be a little tricky for some people to watch but it would run that tape all right and now and then and then we can come back and we can talk about this because of so many things and i know it's really hard to try and talk about all these things in such a short period of icons but let's let's run that tape now th will we have to go out and say that to the world so even though you may not understand secularly that the jewish people should have a state and so forth given that we know that god told us as jews that we are not allowed to have that and that we are defeating the purpose of and when we do that then the nations will we want them to see that we're not that military nation i think if you look you'll see that the world many much anti semitism cost of course especially the muslim nations and or all but because they look at the jews as a militant nation couldn't believe the nations could not believe that could be possible that such a strong mighty nation could be handed over into the hands of the enemy from their will so at that time like one of the leading powers of the world if they should be able to pull into the hands of the enemy the same thing is it a blasphemy to suggest that maybe we live in that time little bit and that and that perhaps there were just preparing we come now to where we have dr capability of the world is being changed in such a tremendous fatter you say that it would be a world everybody's fine except busy except the jews other jews are doing all these things terrible i was a little somebody with it it's like your self hating kind of attitude towards the jewish people or something because there's so uplifted and that you're all these other change his ways because they realize that we could get along and that is no reason to be have ever who some people say you'll be able to get along as long as you just don't exert yourself and have any kind of power in the world and allow yourself to have another holocaust develop that you're going to allow yourself to have another all of god and not stand durative of the world see and most of the world of the ad many many hundreds of thousands of jews believe because this is the only total way it is the only true top way as you could think this is the only way that they now the ones who are fortunately left the fold of judaism they think differently but it's not now that would you can contact them at the end it's a very unusual and let's just say that within the context of allowing all voices to be heard we want to hear the voices which are very very unusual and ought to be heard by a great number of people they may have more meaning now than perhaps they did even if you carried that struggle along and the voices should be heard particularly now as we come up to the i would say your your rear up against a difficult task in the short run here in terms of having israel cease to exist fifty years they haven't accomplish mean that's another joke but anyway we had a conversation invite you to tune in again we'll be coming back again next week but it's been your pleasure i pleasure to be able to have and present to you the ideas of these unusual gentlemen who are part of an the torah card as part of an international mov