r if you're a small business owner you've worked really hard to get where you are and now you want to grow by hiring employees and you should be aware that sometimes it doesn't work out just as you wanted to in the last thing you want to do is to spend money on employment attorneys let's learn now from one who is an employment attorney how to prevent claims of hostile work environment perhaps or sexual harassment in the workplace in your small business welcome joe marino he currently serves as a senior director of faculty relations and title nine coordinator for the color institute of america he is a certified professional in human resources for the human resource certification institute and is also sort of fide as a title non chord nader from the association of title nine administrations joe that is a mouthful of credentials but we know that makes you exceptionally well qualified to speak on this topic help our business owners keep their workplace front from becoming a victim itself of sexual harassment and being claims of a hostile work environment how do we do that it's a multi faceted question small business owners especially have it more difficult than for instance larger corporations if you're a large corporation you have your resources department you have expensive attorneys at your beck and call you have employee him books you have policies and that's the thing it was corp there are ways to deal with it if you're in a smaller company at even fifteen or less you may not have those resources but you still have access to resources that are out and that's again the internet but also local employment attorneys who can help you a part of this is to set yourself up to understand exactly what you need to do every office to small people are human and one of the things that you have to be careful of when you start a business is just know what you have a policy about harassment how are you going to address that if it happens you have a difficult employee what are you going to do about that what if you have to fire somebody oh well you know this is all very scary for a business owner that's trying out but people have to remember that i believe it's over thirty five to forty percent of everyone who is employed in this country is employed by a firm that i believe is twenty or less employees so this is actually a tremendous concern and and it's not just that let's say the small business owner would do something to harass an employee couldn't it be said if one employee has an issue with another employee absolutely and that's the biggest challenge you computer very small office you have to employ is going at it with each other whether it's sexual discriminatory racial those things come up if you're on a map business you have to address it how do you address that what's a first step second step because i know there's laws in place but impracticality what's the best way to handle something as it starts bubbling to the surface with keeping things still smooth uncomfortable and not causing any kind of destruction disruption workflow well you first of all you dress it quickly nip it in the bud anything that's left to fester nothing good can happen so if you have two employees you have to deal with both of them fairly it does mean you have to hire an outside investigator and do it investigation but right away you need to talk to both of them separately and then together and find out what's going on one of the this advantages the disadvantage of people using the internet specifically e mail e mail is i always joke around with you know employees is one of those things that seems to of back in the day when you would write a letter you'd be very deliberate you type it your review it maybe you'd put it away and you would send it internet even now allows apparently what's going on in your brain to bypass the other parts of your brain and go right into the computer and i say that as a counselor managers deans any other people that i work with but being very deliberate and thoughtful with the e mails even in a small business you can be close to somebody don't goof around don't joke no flip comments you know i suppose a smiley face might be ok but even there you don't want to create that atmosphere of any unprofessional correspondence because now i'm like ten fifteen twenty years ago we go back to the one nine hundred fifty s i was just happened but it's now you can make any kind of a joke forget how racially charged or sexually charged jokes were back then how serious do you really need to keep your vital work environment to even have fun anymore so what does somebody really have to be careful of i mean do you have to be so vigilant that your workplace becomes unfunny and uncomfortable to be in you could always smile you could joke i think and in this environment we talk about predatory employees who are looking for an ax to grind why would someone do that and how do you prevent that from taking over the atmosphere well let's say when part of the important process when you hire employees you know what do you do to hire employees just put in the paper and you look at them and may not be a great employee or they may have an axe to grind but the situation i'll give an example i think of the awful i work for you and you're you're now yelling at me because i keep coming in late and i keep leaving early and i am screwing up memos and things that i'm doing for you and then you call me and then you say joe you need to stop doing this i'm very upset you need to do these things in your performance tanks and then i bring out an e mail you sent me a couple of months ago where you kind of forwarded on some silly joke that you heard that you thought everybody would think would be funny all of a sudden that joke becomes over that conversation we all had in the office because well you're discriminating against me or i give you a great example of something that occurred to me it old employer i'm italian american grandfather came from italy rest my relatives came from italy or at a big meeting and someone suggests they were talking about possibly terminating a play that i knew had a truly terminated employee because i had connections  that was not a good thing for that person to say on the employee end rather than make a big deal i just addressed it and said and you should remember this as an employee i really did appreciate that comment and think it was appropriate please don't say that again  i take my heritage seriously as all of you in the room do and so and then i got an apology and it was done and that's usually on the lowest level how you deal with that on the employer and you have to be careful about how familiar you get what you say i don't want to make or be paranoid that when they go into their own home office with their two or three employees that they have to worry about every little thing but you need to really pay attention and a lot of that starts with the internet and what people put you know everything and you know what about if it's something that's in context with the workspace so we're all very nervous and cautious about sexual harassment and that could be not just the stereotype cliche from like the mad men days where you know a guy pats a woman on the then all of rear end or he says well your work here is contingent upon favors let's not even pretend it goes that far because that's just maybe not even that frequent let's hope it's not frequent but what if it's some kind of innuendo or let's say it's a joke saying is that lipstick in your pocket or you're just happy to see me or just something that maybe i was in line with the situation that is happening should you be afraid of that i mean everything is a potential time bomb or is it i mean when if somebody was then complaining against you or perhaps it was between employees and you can't many get that because you know how do you control other people's behavior if it if they're in your office and it filters back in your office you have to be responsible for it and breaking it up and telling people knock it off sometimes that works really well sometimes not so much you know using bad as example great show but it's like a how to what not to do in today's world it's a great thing as a show all everybody in i prefer that it's hard to enforce in a small office you can't force people to do things outside if you're a large company having a fraternization policy as part of their orientation saying you shouldn't do this there's reasons why some places have that for the simple reason that you have a great question ship that go back and forth things that filter out to the office into text messaging and social gatherings that are all related to your work people that then filter back it gets very complicated but there's a lot of reasons to hopefully that that doesn't happen but i will tell you that notwithstanding fraternization policies people will still date because if you're working ten or twelve hours a day the people you're likely are going to be at the people that you're working with so it's that it's kind of against human nature but it's always a real challenge and  you know small business owners have to really keep an eye out for what's going on but you know i always say whatever you're doing whether it's e mail or discussion with employees be really thoughtful of the serious discussion bring another manager or trustworthy person into it as a witness  make sure that you know people things aren't filtering out you really pay attention a lot of people you know having been an owner of a small business in the past you sort of let things go on autopilot you think certain things are growing when you need to tell you touch in your office staff  what's going on who's doing what who's mad why is this one sitting at their desk it's like almost babysitting employees hey i don't mean to be negative that way or even they should be micromanaging but when you have to think of things that are on the personal level of interactions instead of just the work flow it almost can feel that way it can and you have to you know if you're a small business owner you care you really you want to just like if you're a large business you should care about your employees for a lot of good reasons one is legally yes but i think you mean we want to care about  s we care about them and they want them to be happy so they stay right we want good employees hardworking police who want to offer advancement but that being said you know that your admin that you've had for years that's doing good job in there are normally grumpy or whatever if maybe they're having a rough day and say hey you know ok is everything all right you know have to get it's all kinds of details of them want to volunteer things but you should care and that's how you maybe learn things that you didn't know if you noticed two people in the office not speaking or being really nasty with each other that's when you really really need to address it right away because the longer it goes on it has a chance to bubble out of your office into other places it could affect your business but you don't effect the bottom line and then ultimately you have to lay off people because you're not making enough money because you know hurting the entire office and firing because what if you do have ten fifteen employees or even a few less well that's where the impact is great if you only have ten or fifteen employees and two of your employees are fighting what's the percentage of that of your  just is confined to two people it will bubble out and then i'll talk to my friend and you'll talk to your friend and then everybody pick sides and you just don't want to go there and if it's disruptive to the office you can always and like i would say consult an employment attorney you can always look terminate people for any nondiscriminatory reason that's the legal language so what you need to do but so what about you said you just you just brought up a good subject you had mentioned about firing people now does you have to be very concerned with a couple things  example you know when did you fire with good cause did you give written notification and of course were there any protected classes involved you know that those sixteen key things that i think people should keep in mind yeah everything from sex race  matter equally you base everything on performance and performance doesn't mean that i give here if you win here and i say yeah you really stink you're fired and you get a reduced and your bet when any employee gets any kind of notification if it's a review that you do they should know before you get to the review what your assessment of their performances whether it's every month you bring them in and you talk to them or they know that yes i'm doing a good job you've said and i was recognized that if i have someone who's doing a good job i would say hey great thank you that was great and if they're not doing a good job or on this point with something else or you know what that really wasn't up to par you need to give them that feedback what about social events i mean if you want to be a really good employer you know wanted to keep everything dry mundane and hopefully you have an annual holiday party but even if it's not annual maybe a place to have a gathering a few times a year is there anything a small business owner should be aware of or a little bit cautious about having social gatherings at sea at a restaurant or you've got one of those dinner cruises or something more fun a picnic or a barbecue for the company i mean i'm more conservative i say if you're going to do that as a small business if you keep it to your restaurant that's fine limit alcohol but as a glass of wine there's a lot of bad things that can happen that if you look at old case law there's a lot of things that did happen that you know that you want to want to be social employees you want them like you want them to like each other so that makes sense just you know we're going to go on a booze cruise you know i would not recommend i think it was not a good idea don't see so many horror stories about the holiday parties got a raw and then you know you just don't want to end up an implicit position because what if somebody blames the employer you can blame the employer you can blame fellow employees and the employer is always the first target well you let it's all and that's what you know we like to think we're dealing with reasonable respectable people but not everybody is like that so unfortunately just before you plan that party think about it sometimes what we've seen is people you have a nice holiday party everybody brings in some some food you bring in some juice or some other thing it's not out whole if you have a toast and everything hangs out and has a good time and it's keep it kept very limited or you go to a restaurant no we're not out of alcohol or we order one bottle of wine and we all have a toast you have to think about those things that sounds really scary but if you have a small business in the year put your wife into this business yes you need to think about this is really important think about because when you're a small business owner and all of us can relate to it you know work a five to eight hour day especially in the beginning you're working twelve to fifteen hour days to raise this baby you gave birth to and to have it mature and become somebody wonderful because if you're at the point of having employees that is a good thing you're giving people jobs so thank you joe for coming on and i know a lot of our business owners are taking some very good advice from this so remember it's great to have employees it's fantastic that you got to level the protect your business do the smart things and remember to nip any potential situation when it first starts to come about don't let it fester because then you'll encounter what you really don't want potential lawsuits and unfortunately employment attorney fees keep your business safe prevent a crisis don't have to stop it later  expert in how small business owners can act more like large corporation and utilize business credit to their advantage here with me today is se de se welcome to the show and thank you for helping small business owners last and profit and thrive in their businesses by using finance to their benefit thank you for having me on the show in launching this book i know your passion for small businesses in helping them achieve to stop their crisis and i thought this would be the perfect place to launch this book with a view from an advocate standpoint well we're very excited because i know this can change in pivot small business owners who might be getting started or launching to a new level in their business understand that overcoming the financial hurdle is what would help them make or break or even hire a bigger staff or get the marketing or whatever they need to get to a higher level of success and you are going to be what helps them to accomplish that absolutely in your opening you said that business credit was one of the most important to the small business going to have in their portfolio you're absolutely right shockingly ninety nine percent of small businesses do not have business credit nor do they know how to go back steps in it i am really shocked about that how is it virtually every single small business owner does not understand that how is that possible two issues one there is no unilateral lending process across the spectrum between banks credit unions credit reporting companies no one sinked the second thing is small business owners think their business credit is a misnomer they think that you have to use your personal credit to get business credit and that's not the case yes is there anyone currently out there educating small business owners on that how about through the s b a or s p d c or any other business advisory to small business owners no no no possibly what is the answer behind why ninety nine percent this is what gave me the wherewithal to write this book i went to a conference years ago and it was basically how to bring funding to small business owners in this conference room full of two hundred people you had all of you afa bets all that you just named including the federal reserve the f b i see bank of america chase and they were talking about business so for an hour he talked about how the small business owner with me business credit to make the business grow and finally after an hour i raise my hand and i said i have a question can anyone in the room tell me how to go about establishing business credit and i guess there was silence crickets crickets question silent yes i worked in silence so i said i've done over nine thousand hours of research in dealing with banks credit unions credit reporting not understand the playing field it's a main i've always heard to have good personal credit should have some amount of credit cards at a certain amount of usage level yeah you know i third it's like you should have no more than thirty three percent or so or thirty don't know if you want to mortgage if you want a car so for personal business owner if they're not looking to take on business credit what is the benefit for them to establish credit worthiness for their business entity here's the deal i always ask a business owner what are your plans for the future do you like a five year plan it would be if we can be a one year plan and most is like you know i want to grow a successful business and make money now should they have a business plan to be able to answer that properly well that's a whole nother topic but let's before we go there let's go back on the credit side in this country cash is no longer king credit is credit is king did after people realize that no a lot of business owners are like well i don't want debt that is not in my point man credit that you should have so a credit card is one thing even on the personal side right but that's only one strain of credit what about installment loans so if you have a credit card let's say your credit score was seven thirty it will never go over seven thirty i don't care if you only use fourteen percent usage of the card it will never go over seven thirty because to a lender you don't have enough risk we need to know how are you with installment loan ok so here's my credit and credit credit question for a small business owners credit or the business entity right if you're a sole proprietor does that still count or what your business towards your business no ok so you have to be an established is it l r c or because you have the escort has something called pass through taxation that's correct and this is why a lot of people want to the a little cs because of past of taxation you can get the same thing with an escort pass through taxation the only difference is you have to follow your intentions with that  i think it's a form eighty three thirty eight that you plan to file with through as a small business would pass through taxation but because corporations are more structured and what i've say that you set up with the secretary of state you have your board members listed you have your principals listed two things creditors care about stability stability you said two things two things corporate creditors care about correct stability and accountability ok i want to be able to but you know when i meet you and other words i want to be able to call and talk to a live person that's a member of the corporation and stability i want you to be making money i want you to be that's not going to work yes not good at all ok you can actually use your home address and that i encourage you in the book use your home address it's a stable low dress you've been there you know registered to you here's another question of why someone would want  business credit so even if somebody right now says oh i don't want to have the burden having debt what about in the future what if right now for example let's say someone starts a business that rents out of a small office space more retail space or even there's a lot of home based businesses right what if down the line they might end up growing their business right and might look to maybe perhaps buy commercial real estate entity such as your c corporate or build up enough business credit to buy real estate in that entity's name can that be that purpose yes let's go back to how old corporations are they've been around since one thousand nine hundred which is why they are the  everything but your company is like a baby you have to grow it up you're not the baby you're the pain out of the baby same thing with a corporation your tax id number is like the social security number for your business and you should build it up and bill credit in that in the book i talk about the ways to build it up the right corporate structure and there are dairy eleven critical requirements that every small business owner must have eleven well that's something we to have a bank account in your business name i'm sure every small business owner has a bank account in their business no they don't know no a lot of them are doing business as here's the thing a lot of people get their tax id number and say hey i got my business up i'm people it's you know it's a g mail dot com that is the corporate credit is guilty very very unprofessional corporate creditors don't take you serious if you don't take your business serious why would a corporate credit thank you very much i see that is fantastic information