well good evening everyone thank you for coming on a beautiful day it's turned into a gorgeous day this week we john thompson is with us and john as i think probably many of you know writes for the seattle times next week t harris is here next week and and again it will be the same format tonight although we're in a little different situation john's going to talk for about twenty twenty five minutes and then he'll stop we'll gather together in groups of three to five  and then after about twenty minutes of that we'll come back with john in the groups can a can address the information that john has given us again what this is all about is to to have a place to have a  civil civic discussion and this seven week series and then we're going to break for the summer but the seven week series is really about the economy it is about the corporations and their impact on our life and it's also a  i'm going up or to ninety to hear a little bit about initiative one hundred three and so after john talks after we talk after we are that part wraps up we'll close the night jeff will come up and share with you a little bit more information i want all three so thank you all for being here john thanks for being here both thanks for having me tonight i'm specially honored to be here with this group i am mindful of the story about the man who died and went to heaven and he was being taken on a guided tour by st peter and he was going from room to room and he looked in one room and there are a bunch of people eating meat finally another room and people were just sitting around doing nothing and the man was surprised and he said well now who are those and st peter said well those are the methodists they've done it all a man i can tell you i just got back from phoenix i am a native arizona and but i'm not crazy and i always feel like i have to say that because of the midwesterners who came there and destroyed my state and turned it into a christian fascist bad bastiaan if i may borrow riches look you shone there but i was down there sell books and that went well and i came back with the ever helpful airplane cold so off ice and a sniffle or cough a little bit so night it's not you and i'm past the point of any infection so fear not and i'm glad some of you at least sat close because i actually showered tonight just you we are going through extraordinary times this is not a recovery like we have seen in any post world war two era everything seems to be different and much of it in a bad way we've been through something that people have called the great recession but we're actually going through a much larger and more profound series of changes and i started calling this several years ago the great disruption and writing about this for the newspaper in phoenix was one of the things that got me not only run out of town but run out of the state and so i came up here in the witness relocation program let me mention some of the aspects of the great disruption and then go a little more in depth on those before the time runs out what i will tell you is that our future is one almost entirely based on discontinuity the next thirty years are not going to be a repeat of the past thirty years most americans cannot even begin to get their minds wrapped around this or what it will mean what are some of the aspects of the great disruption one is what we might call a high cost energy future or we buy and call it peak oil now there is a quote that i'm fond of using that says peak oil is a fact of geology now the person who said this was not the head of the sierra club or the natural resources defense council the person who said that peak oil is a fact of geology is and  will have to do violence to you if you don't mute all your phones so please do that now the person who said that peak oil is a fact of geology a fact was the c e o of chevron does not mean we're running out of oil what peak oil means is that we have used up half of this one time gift of geology and the rest of it is going to be much harder to get and much more costly to get our entire civilization is based on cheap oil and it is based on oil that is light sweet texas crude or west texas intermediate or whatever you want to call it it's very inexpensive to refine most of what's going to be left is heavier crudes with a lot of impurities a lot of sulfur they're going to cost a lot more to find and refine now the oil industry knows this this is one reason they're not investing in new refineries and our political leaders know this they won't tellus george w bush talks more about and so faced with this reality we're in this mad rush to find every hydrocarbon on the planet or fracking we're using tar sands from canada remember when we thought canadians were those nice people from up north who had this kind of odd diction a now you can put an entire bumper sticker on the the country that says we're changing the planet ask us how the new york times and most of the mainstream media are either completely ignorant about energy issues or they are co opted by the billions of dollars spent by the industry or at least hundreds of millions spent by the industry to make you said think move along nothing to see here but talk about we have a hundred year supply of natural gas or so and so has made this vast offshore discovery it's not going to help it's not going to work more and more of the developing world is using oil they want to industrialize they want what has become the american lifestyle of in the lis single occupancy happy motoring they're competing with us for this resource now we know peace exist because in one nine hundred seventy one or two the u s hit its peak and from that point on production went down but you only know a peak in the rearview mirror you don't know when it's happening but when you look at the actual production we may well have hit peak in two thousand and six when the economy was booming and we were being we were seeing oil producing countries actually hold back while for their domestic uses and even the international energy agency and the energy department and mit these things are true do not believe what you hear about reserves reserves or a state secret of the saudi arabia for a reason and that's because they don't want you to know how much oil they really have most of the elephant fields in the world are in decline cancer l and mexico is certainly a big example of this and the new discoveries are not making up for what's being what has already been burned off and what is being burn fracturing horizontal drilling i always loved that word when i was covering the oil industry they have provided new ways to get em and extract  again very expensive and as george w bush said most of the oil is in places where the people don't like us very much now one of the consequences of this reality is that the era of happy motoring is over we just don't know it now reality doesn't really care what we think i just going to happen and you can repeat this about everything i'm going to say here yellow or in the south china sea because there is under the seabed a lot of potential war oil reserves that are sought after by china and the philippines and vietnam which is now our ally isn't it funny the way history goes in circles we're going to see this all over the world now even if you are an optimist and you say well we won't hit peak for another ten years or will we won't hit peak until twenty thirty we're doing nothing as a society to make this transition we had an opportunity during the great recession to really do a stand realists and really target it to do things like build high speed rail rebuild what was once the best passenger train system in the world in my lifetime to retrofit suburbia with light rail and with abundant transit we have done nothing now aliens are not going to stop by and give us hydrogen cars i hate to tell you an electric car is not a power source and as far as alternative energy goes be skeptical because for most of alternative energy the inputs required to make a unit of energy require more fossil fuels then the output that is produced there's another thing the new york times can't seem to wrap around its head you know these east coast liberals they want to bring islamic fascists osha lism to us you know they're like a mouthpiece for exxon mobil this is the now even if we had all all the oil we won and all the oil were promised and one hundred year supply of natural gas and at some point if you want to know i can tell you why that's well i can't say that word in church but it is a false hood but even if we had all those things and we wanted to continue our quote unquote lifestyle remember dick cheney former president cheney said the american lifestyle is non negotiable reality is going to be renegotiated but even if we could do all those things there is the second aspect of the great disruption and that is climate change almost unanimous agreement among the scientists who really study it and it is a fact that it is human caused and it is getting worse and it is getting worse at a much faster rate than we even expected now in science there's always disagreement over the details how fast how bad that's the only place there's disagreement in the pages of mainstream newspapers  they will talk about climate change deniers i'm waiting for someone to start talking about round the earth den now again the people in power know this is happening in that it's real and i think that a lot of average americans do too but they think that climate change is going to be something that only hurts the poor people in the third world and i am here to tell you that that ain't so climate change is going to destroy huge numbers of species you can say goodbye to the sun belt it's going to cause huge geo political disruptions and confrontations the united nations says several years ago that water will be the twenty first century what oil was to the twentieth century already down in phoenix when i left on monday it was one hundred eight degrees one hundred eight degrees in may it's only going to get worse tropical diseases will start migrating north there will be huge dislocations of people who will come north and come here and if they don't like brown people in the southwest just wait our task is to prevent climate refugees from the rest of america from coming here so i always tell people that seattle is as cold as the arctic and it rains every single day so don't move here and please tell your friends family and anyone who asks the same thing and also seattle people are very cold and chilly and you want me he friends  climate change is going to produce economic costs far higher than the costs to address it and we're rapidly reaching a turning point where it's baked in the cake and this is going to be something that our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren will curse us for for not addressing the third major element of my old great disruption theory was called three billion new capitalists in the world but it is much more complicated than that yes we have billions of people who are developing their nations they want american lifestyles they want what we have but we also have a situation where we have negotiated very bad trade deals and so the consequences in this country have been horrific for the american middle class and in many cases they have been horrific for people in developing countries just ask the families of foxconn workers who committed suicide is going to be much more competitive world we don't even have a manned space program anymore all we can do is cut our schools all we can do is cut funding for its research and development in education all we can do is fall into the part of the great disruption that i should have seen coming but didn't quite and that is political extremism now i'm from arizona and i grew up a goldwater republican and before he died barry said i will be remembered as a liberal and so i don't mean to offend any of you by saying this but the reality is that one of our two great political parties has become captured by extremists now this is unprecedented in our history and i can't think of a time like this i used to read about the fifty's and joe mccarthy and think it must have been an amazing time to live and how could we do such a thing but there were people like the white eisenhower who were going to quietly do tailgunner joe him this is not like that time and then i think about the eight hundred fifty s and the eve of the civil war and this is much closer to that time but our split is not just regional it's within neighborhoods it's within cities and it is a split between the reality based community and the people who simply don't want to face facts now this is the point of the talk where people start planning their suicide options and what i would say to you is that this is not a call for that americans have to mental gears to emotional gears one is wild optimism and the other is suicidal depression and we have to get some gears in between this is  call to action all of these problems can be addressed many of them can be fixed out right but we're not doing anything about it and the center of the country just keep shifting ever more to the right ever more to the control of the rich and the powerful and people who believe there should be no social compact people who believe that the commons are not worthwhile that the country that i grew up with is some kind of mini and that we need to somehow go back to the eight hundred ninety s the consequences of this are huge economically the impact on the middle middle class has been felt for thirty years the very rich are getting much richer the people in the middle have seen their wages stagnate these are all the economics of  it but and we can talk about that but that's not really the worst of it despite all the christian the nesse stephen colbert would say of the loudest and the fifty point one percent that carry elections we are committing heinous acts against the last and the least and the last i get e mails from people who quote the bible to me and say well jesus said the poor ye shall always have with you and they do this as far as  a long rambling e mail about how they earned what they got and if people starve too bad if people don't have health care too bad you must permit me a little digression you know we're the only major advanced country in the world that doesn't have high speed rail doesn't have universal health care we think we're  vance we're stuck in one thousand nine hundred seventy but back to where i was with the poor you shall always have with you they quote this and i don't know what religious radio show or rush limbaugh a obvious role role model or fox quote unquote news they get this from but they they don't seem to understand the context of this  that jesus was talking to the disciples about they were always going to have him with them so they really needed to pay attention and then he goes on to give them a special mission to the poor to the last the least the last the prisoner we incarcerate more people than any country in the world including red china and so just as i feel obliged to say i'm from arizona and i'm not crazy i feel obliged to say i'm a christian but i'm not crazy i'm not intolerant i'm not a racist i'm not a hom and so the consequences for our morality as a people for our souls are a much higher price tag than the economics and few people are talking about that few people are talking about the web of mutuality as martin luther king jr called it that binds all of us together i live in belltown i go down third avenue and i'm surrounded by the homeless most of those people didn't grow up in a downtown but we take them downtown because we're a public space because the suburbs the white right apartheid suburbs all over the country of zone them out and our nation says to them too bad and as christians we can't do that and so we face difficult days ahead but remember the scene in terminator two where a very buff if you'll forgive me for saying it in the parlor linda hamilton is using her k bar combat knife to carve into the table top the words no fate and her son explains to governor shorts today or that what she means is no fate but what we make we can still turn this around but we do not have inless second chances and time is running out we have to face reality reality doesn't care what we want reality doesn't care what we think reality is going to just keep hitting us upside the head and the great recession is just the start and with  thank you for learning to snooze with your eyes open attentively and will break into pods that sounds like something out of the movie aliens and then i'll be here thank you may i just throw in a bit of saying shameless self promotion before we start you can read me sundays in print in the seattle times and online and then i blog every business day in the seattle times website but you can also read my nasty stuff on my personal blog which is called rogue columnist and you can google that but it's w w w dot rogue columnist dot com and part of it is for the readers i left behind in phoenix when i was thrown out but the other part of it is on national issues especially about sustainability and civic design and energy and things like that so shameless self promotion behind if i'm in charge of taking your questions then hands up and if not it's been a great evening good night ok yes are connections between the two it is you know seattle is this kind of island of prosperity and it is not really like much of the rest of america and it'll be the last to go down if that's of any comfort to you and we do many things right and a few things wrong but there there are theorists who talk about the connection between peak oil and peak debt it's really a lamb play you know chesapeake energy is not so much drilling oil wells as there they're doing a real estate hustle with oil or with gas leases and again this is not well reported on and so there's huge investment going on debt based investment in this natural gas play right now and gas prices have fallen as a result and so everybody's overextended and this is what peak oil theorist talked about is this constant over investment in legacy energy extraction and then the bottom falls out and then prices suddenly go back up and then the bottom falls out and you kind of run along this jigsaw line for a long time until the bottom falls out and doesn't come back i don't know if that gets some of what you were after kind of all take is a well we have seven billion people on the planet we have two million people we have three hundred million people in this country you have too many people we are way over extended and a host of ways and we are distended and mal stand it in so many ways that the average american family has seen its earning stagnate and go down and its wealth go down as the rich have gotten richer and so they've turned to debt and credit cards and things like that and they're way over their heads the average young person with with a college degree his her earnings have grown only about fifteen percent since two thousand and the student loan debt burden for just the average has grown about twenty four percent if i recall so this is going to be a very angry generation and they're going to want to take away my social security even though i i guess i was getting at the notion that there are a lot of people and i know them and they live in the gated properties i'm not going to call them communities and who who do and will not accept that we are at resource limits and or that climate change is real and human caused and these people vote and a lot of other people don't  and daniel patrick moynihan famously said you are entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to your own facts and thanks to the vast infrastructure on the right they have they manufacture these quote unquote facts that just aren't and it makes the debate even worse i mean i don't even know what a liberal is now i think a liberal now is ronald reagan ronald reagan ronald reagan could not even win a g o p school board election now the the center has shifted so far to the right but i hear what you're saying i am i'm in belltown but other people are in their bunkers my my gas prices are cheaper question on this sign yes or well i don't really hear a question but i agree with your statement i think that the the way that we that most of us have been living is going to become ever more difficult and because we are a pleasure seeking mammals and customs are very hard to change habits are very hard to change expectations are very hard to change it's to be a very rough ride and to to get at some of the energy issue things can we have a sustainable energy system absolutely and they're still going to be oil around and all that it's going to be very costly can we live the way we've been living that more and more of us have been living for the past fifty years with vast sprawl  hundred four you know they won't tell you i will but but that is simply the reality and i also want to get it something underneath all these things and that is that yes we we must pull together in community we must reconstitute the commons and we  must gather back together our social safety net and our obligation to others and and you know history is an argument without end but i will tell you that the the america that was when i was a young man for all of its flaws was one that was based as much on mutuality as it was on rugged individual ism and it is always been so and where we are headed today in the if you can call it that intellectual underpinnings of this iron rand world of law of the jungle and every person for him or herself notice my non gender based on their which is also much less poetic that is that is national suicide and that is what we're going to commit yes well i mean the question is is that is there an environmental consciousness an ethic in the developing world and the man with the dogs had made the point that in china especially you have an author or sharing regime and so what the average chinese person wants is really irrelevant but we didn't care about the environment when we were a developing country but then the world had only a billion people now the planet is is arguably at or near its carrying capacity and i recommend to you a number of books by a writer named james howard kunstler one if you want to understand how much we've lost and good civic design is called the geography of nowhere and then home from nowhere but the other book is called the long emergency which gets into many of these topics but the the developing world and this was one of the sticking points in the hero proto crawls is that their view is you know hey you got yours and now you're saying to us we you know we can't have ours and we've been able to come up with win win solutions here and another part of this is that american corporations especially our oil companies they want to prop up dictatorships they want to go into the into places like nigeria and extract all the  oil and let the people clean it up but the enormous population and the enormous poverty the desire for a better life again we are pleasure seeking  us most of us maybe not a couple of my old girlfriends but that that is a very hard circle to square it's not that it can't be done and it's not that there are efforts to find these win win solutions but it's a huge problem now having said that that doesn't mean that we couldn't do our part i mean we use more oil than any country we could cut back our oil use we pollute bunch not the way china does with coal but we could rein that in you know something like seventy five percent of greenhouse gases are  cars well you know especially down in the sunbelt and in the drive to qualify areas we need to have changes in land use and start to reconstitute real walk neighborhoods and real communities where people can walk to local stores that would also do a lot to rein in the obesity epidemic epidemic in my cases just because you know i'm crippled and fat and a pleasure seeking mammal but good point yes or well it's not even a really rugged individual as them but the the point of the question revolved around th there it is a good thing that we have a small alternative progressive voice and things like amy goodman's democracy now and the nation and it's like that but there he also voiced and i think rightly concerned about how the majority of people get their quote unquote news from either these media conglomerates that have to say you know on the one hand there might be climate change but on the other hand there are climate change deniers or they get it from fox news which is just downright an of the of the right wing with a with a political agenda and you know all of us can do some things i mean for instance i i don't own a car i take public transit  i mean and you know this doesn't make me necessarily a moral giant is just that it's pain and act of i am so over that i mean i was over that after my camaro when i was twenty eight question in the back much of it not him all cases but well i mean when turbans i mean you know when turbans are are made with fossil fuel inputs and then you have to say ok how much energy do they produce for all the energy they require to be made and this is not this is not an anti alternative energy or green technolog screed it is simply to say that we have to set aside our american faith in technology that somehow technology will allow us to sustain the unsustainable we need to make different arrangements we need to reconstitute our great railroad network for instance we need to and we need to build high speed trains but just for the beginnings i mean the cascades are wildly popular you know we'll see if the next governor tries to defund that amtrak wildly popular every year it has to fight for its life with congress imagine if if we had convenient trains all the time i mean that's just one simple of got to be willing to accept more density in their neighborhoods i mean you know paris really sucks doesn't it you know paris paris has a really high density in paris is just an awful place to live you can have high quality density i agree the question was how do progressive christians at least make it starts own some of these issues and i think that our lord and savior commands us to do so partly we need to show up and partly we need to not be so timorous about our faith and be willing to actually talk about it and rather than than you know being so politically correct all the time i am happy to tell people that look i was a paramedic for five years nearly five years and most of it was in the worst part of downtown phoenix and i was not only the first responder but the primary care giver to the homeless and the poorest people and i hated them i gave them good care but i hated them and a few years later  my minister suggested that for land that i do the one a day bible thing it sounds like a vitamin but it's a bible you can get it were you read a part of it once a day for a year and i did that it was the first time i'd ever read the entire bible through now anybody who comes up to me asking for money i give a tone it doesn't matter you know the old me would have said well are just going to buy drugs and buy booze that's what do now i don't care i give them money because i have actually read jesus's words and seen them in context and it changed my life and i think that we in the main stream protestant churches the mainline protestant churches have for forty years kind of since we became the united methodist church although nothing against the brotherhood we we have just to absent it ourselves from the national dialogue i mean when rick warren is considered you know kind of the moderate preacher out there there is something wrong with that and we need to be in that dialogue and we need to be in that dialogue as christians you know the mainstream media calls the people  the methodist churches i'm in is in heaven joe hill church what they're talking about is fundamentalists which is a big difference and we need to go back and take back that word and we need to show by our actions and by our outreach that  we're there for the conversation and we also need to recognize that yes a ministry to the homeless is absolutely important and jesus called on us specifically specifically to to be his  ministry to the poor but i guarantee you that there are hurting souls on mercer island and in medina and sometimes it's as simple as find a hurt and heal it but it's also as con complex as we've got to show up and we've got to show up and and act as christians in the public square thank you very much dan it's great if voters passed in bellingham it would not only restrict them from operating the coal train but it would also strip corporate constitutional rights of energy companies up there  so i want to talk about why i want to three matters so because people ask me this a lot like why it is i want to three include so many things and how would it affect us right away and i've been kind of blown away by reading the news lately so let me mention a few headlines that i've seen in the seattle times and on the web say probably tomorrow you're going to wake up you're going to see some pictures of yammering man down at seattle art museum with a balloon over its head that says amazon respect your workers and so today i was down at a rally that was put on by labor groups at the amazon shareholder meeting you know probably read more about it tomorrow and amazon actually back down they're withdrawing their support from the right wing group alec and they're also going to air condition their factories so it's a victory it's on line today that's how i yeah so and then today i think help me with this but the capitol hill rezoning challenge was on the front page so this is an issue if you've heard about it mayor mcginn is proposing some rezoning up on capitol hill partly density but partly integration from retail i'm not exactly sure of the details but the capitol hill community council is against it so is this issue of neighborhoods having a say in what's happening i'm not passing judgment on you know the merest plan or the community's plan but there's ok we'll let you do that in a minute then there's been some tomorrow you're probably also going to read about the department of justice secret letters confidentially have come out and said that the d o j is telling the mare that he needs to get with the program basically the merest plan to address  the problems that we have with our police are just not meeting the seriousness of the issues that the d o j has presented another thing that you've been reading about in the in the paper is the n b a arena deal right so we have the situation where the mare has worked out this plan in private with the hedge fund investor because hansen to put two hundred million of city money towards an n b a arena while you may have also read that the mare doesn't want to spend forty one million in the first year to actually give us a police force that is treating its citizens respectfully unaccountably you might have read about the coal train that has to get to bellingham has to go through ballard and king five had some great video where they walked along the tracks and they found all this coal and this is just from a tiny number of coal trains that actually go through our region today it's a dramatic the plan is to have eighteen one mile long coal trains coming through understanding although i'm still catching up so i might be a little wrong on that another story that you probably read about in the last couple days is this one just bizarre it's the u s chamber of commerce is attacking the seattle school board's management practices  now i don't quite understand what's going on but i have a lot of friends from microsoft and i from the kool aid that they're drinking is that schools need to be privatized that we need charter schools and it's because  the public school system is not working which you know hey i'll buy that argument that's pretty clear right it's just the conclusion that they've come up with is that we need to fund these things privately so you mentioned your ex girlfriend so i'll mention one of mine one of my ex girlfriends or i don't know that maybe an overstatement she is running the campaign to just announce an initiative campaign to you you could say that we were better match than i ever realized because we're both running initiative campaigns but  they need to get one hundred in twenty five thousand signatures to get on the state ballot in six weeks so this is a turner school initiative that is being brought back up again and it's funded in large part at least her group in the past was funded by kani balmer wife of c e o microsoft c e o steve balmer so there's something going on with the u s chamber of commerce attacking the public schools here and rich tech billionaires and their families funding initiatives to privatized the school system and so there's something going on there so how does this all tie into initiative one of three well initiative one of three bands it restricts lobbying to public forums so what that means is that th a deal between chris hansen and the mare would not have ever been started to be hatched in private and dropped on the public unsuspectingly it would have started in public view chris hansen would have had to come to a public forum and say hey i had this idea how this money i would like to build an n b a arena i think that all this private influence over the school system that we're seeing and the lobbying that is taking place that also kind of falls under  this when it comes to the police reforms that we're talking about i want to three provides citizens like you and me a right to oversight and citizen oversight of the police it moves the office of professional accountability which currently reports to the police chief outside of the police department to report to the mare to do a question there sure ok i want to three provides rights for workers it guarantees constitutional rights in the workplace so when we look at what's happening in the amazon with people afraid to speak out when we look at people afraid to organize i want to three also provides rights to collective bargaining for workers in seattle again it's everything that we're reading about in the news i want to three is speaking to i want to three speaks to neighborhood approval of changes in what it's what it's trying to give is that the communities around the zoning changes that are driven by commercial interests not public interest like it's a governmental project but commercial interest need to have fifty point one percent approval and if you can't sell your project to fifty percent of the people living in a community should you be able to just go ahead with that project i think that's a debate that we can have when it comes to the coal train they're really the seattle city council is going to talk about this on tuesday if any of you are interested in testifying at the hearing it's at two o'clock on tuesday the seattle council is going to pass a non binding resolution most likely saying that we shouldn't have the coltrane but they don't have any laws that can actually stop the  coltrane and so i want to three provides rights for nature which gives the city of seattle or any resident in seattle the right to go to court and stop a project that clearly it's negative impacts on the environment both locally when it comes to diesel pollution and asthma or coal dust or coal remnants or globally with climate change can't be mitigated tim i'm an announced over two hundred fifty thousand dollars in donations from  to to pay signature gathers for i want eleven eighty five it's not exactly clear but i want to three prevents campus of the corporation spending money on campaigns and it's likely that he would not be able to pay significant signature gathers in the city of seattle and if you take the city of seattle out of tim iman's signature gathering efforts it would really hurt him do i need to wrap up really quick so i got to stand closer it so anyway that's i just wanted to share with you these are some of the ways that i want to three touches the issues that are in the news that are impacting us and why it matters so what i'd like to do just ask you take home a blank petition bring it back next week filled with some of your friends signatures consider getting involved volunteering with us to gather signatures to get it on the ballot  and thank you for your time we're not really releasing that we're just still ramping up but we are trying to get as many people out there because we need twenty thousand signatures by july fifth to be really sure that w qualify for the november ballot and but we have longer if we want to qualify for next year's ballot but we're really emphasizing qualifying for the november ballot right now i came here tonight to greet my fellow citizens and to the people who represent the navy i am a citizen of the city of seattle i live between the bangor submarine base and the hanford nuclear reservation like many of us do most of us i am first of all deeply impacted by this weapon system and by the whole new person and so is every creature down to the tiniest every plant and as we speak god knows what is heading our way i would say to you that an explosive handling more by the very name speaks of something unthinkable and two kinds of explosives at least will be there when the workers are working on those worse the the wharf we now have in the war that is in the planning stages the  nuclear missile motor the missile motor explosive as well as the nuclear explosive i believe and i have no proof of this that if there was an explosion of the missile motor propellant it could set off a nuclear weapon the heat a missile motor propellant is a very strong explosive i do know that the dangers are enormous and we're talking about doing more of that so i will say to you that i was here in the water to stop the first the ohio when i was forty five years old i am now seventy three and i will spend the rest of my life being impacted by this weapon system and by the nuclear weapon and nuclear technology in general because that's what you have asked of me i beg you i beg you to reconsider