was a local immigration lawyer with several decades of experience dealing with immigration law with local clients that affect issues in our local community so ryan let's pick up a little bit where we were we had a very fascinating conversation talked a lot about the dhaka dreamers we may touch on that again today but perhaps we can pause and get your advice on what is going on federally with respect to legislation broadly on immigration issues ok you know just to dial back again in terms of thinking about immigration policy and what legislation might look at  the solutions that are posed by our federal government whether be the president or congress are framed by how our elected officials view the problem and some of our elected officials view the problem as the structure of our immigration system and some of the some of our elected officials use the immigrants themselves as a problem and depending on how you view the pot problem will dictate and influence what the proposed solutions are you know so the proposals that we see floating out there they seem to be changing not only by the day but by the hour vary from whether they're coming from the president who are from the congress or what part of the congress is it a bipartisan group is it a conservative group is it a progressive group and you know so what we're looking at now is a proposal that the president has put on the table looking to link a benefit for  deferred action for childhood arrivals the dhaka kids the dreamer kids the dream act kids you know the people the young people that came to the country they were brought by their parents it wasn't you know their idea to come here they were brought by the conservative and i'd say the most conservative goals on immigration which is to stem legal immigration to turn back anybody that is here in the country  illegally and to restructure immigration system so that it's focused on america a system while eliminating our family based system and so those are kind of the elements of the president's plan and it's important to remember when thinking about the president's plan that we've we as a country over the last couple of decades have been through different iterations of comprehensive immigration proposals that try to find the common ground between those on the right of the political spectrum and those on the left o the political spectrum in each side they have their own pillars with the president's proposal seeks to do is to get everything the conservatives have wanted for a little piece of the puzzle of what the  progressive have wanted which is namely you know providing a route to not only legal status but citizenship for the six seven hundred undocumented kids and so in exchange for that little piece of the six percent seven percent of the undocumented population and the the president wants all of the other demands met i mean there's a question what do you do with the other nine million if there's eleven million undocumented people what do you do with the other you know the balance of that and the president's proposal talked about one point eight million kids well maybe it's true you know good having that foresight that they're going to be more kids that then then those that benefitted from president obama's executive order of the doctor kids  larger number but where does he get the one point eight million from are there that many but let's just assume there really are that many kids and they represent you know that percentage of the undocumented population what happens with the rest so that's one proposal that's out there then there is the proposal that comes out of the senate you know is that the gang of six is it the the lindsey graham's hope for gang of sixty you know which s to you know you know address in a more focused way what happens with the kids with other types of you know limited compromises and the proposal that's recently come out of that the house of representatives  funding for border security and as an interesting compromise and i think we'll have to spend some time thinking how about a process that eliminating the diversity visa program with the conservatives have never liked and applying those visas perhaps towards the people that are losing status as salvadorans for example well from temporary protected status you know applying those diversity of bonser husbands and wives and their children and their dad in the case of u s citizens their parents and their siblings you know consistent with the idea of you know we're a country that values families to move away from that system and move towards a system where we want people you know coming in who are generally high skilled workers you know they're coming from countries where the you know the old are going to be speaking english in fact the president's proposal you know early on specifically required in england the english language requirement i thought those a little redundant because the high school work is generally do speak english but it seems to underscore you know a larger valor a different value which is a larger a different value administration has about the types of individuals who wants this country which is of course concerning so the merit based system is one based on you know what is the employer what are the employer needs you know it's the job market and and to limit it in that sense while eliminating the ability of u s citizens or permit residents to be able to sponsor their or close relatives from coming in so that's the system what that might look like you know it's you know not very you know not entirely clear but we know the president wanted to actually cut the absolute number of illegal immigrants is not about the illegals cut the actual number of illegal immigration in half  you know what does that say about the nation of immigrants you know you know it was a say about how the administration views who we are as a nation and for that matter how we are as a nation you know how do we behave as a country that no longer  you know values our you know our our immigrant foundation when you talk about i'm agreeing to give him a gritty tonight states you also have to touch on the travel back and i think there's a connection between what we're talking about right now and the travel ban and maybe you could just explore that a little bit with us so this is interesting you know we we think about our immigration mess the first thing that comes to mind are the undocumented immigrants those illegals out there  but the truth of matter is the very first action president trump took in office when it was at his first day he signed the travel ban and the  the individuals and institutions that were most immediately back to work the illegals they were the universities institutions of higher education and we felt that particularly acutely here in princeton which is why the president of prince university and the president of the institute for advanced study were at the forefront you know speaking out against the president's travel ban because both faculty members and students of these institutions we're not going to be able to come into the united states but perhaps more significantly those that were here didn't know whether they could leave because can you leave if you can't come back and so it affects kind of the larger program of these institutions you know the courses that are taught and the students that are rolling in you know maybe a four year course study or longer but also impacts conferences and the standing that an institution might have in the international community to be able to host you know the thought leading programs that you would expect from princeton university and the institute for advanced study and these were the very first i'll just call them victims of the president's policy and so  you know when we think about the seismic and systemic change that we witness over the last year it affects a whole range of individuals and institutions  you know arguably our sense of what it means to be an american and what this country stands for and what this country can do you talk you were you actually brought from the congressional federal level down to the state level a reaction proactively what might happen in new jersey so we we have a new governor who is you know pretty out in front about the undocumented population in this state so if we go back to what is it they said this is ministrations trying to do with the immigrants it's trying to isolate them and it's trying to scare them so they not only will those that get picked up by immigration customs enforcement be forced to leave but life will be so miserable for families and for communities that people on their own will decide to leave and that's how they achieve you know the the removal of eleven million people from the united states the kind of framework of self deportation you make life so miserable for people that they decide to leave on their own so if the goal is isolation and fear then you know the response is compassion and openness and you know the the the vocabulary of welcoming is particularly a political so what can a state do to welcome the immigrants and of its population and first and foremost is has to do driving licenses poor a number of years is actually under governor jim mcgreevey that we have the six point system you know we all know it with our driving license we have produced you know documents that shows you know six points of value to get a driving license and that was in response to an initiative by the federal government to to address immigration issues and as jim mcgreevey the democratic governor who who you know affirmatively introduced this policy and it's been a piece of the puzzle that has helped you know help isolate immigrants in our communities and you know we all that we have all seen immigrants biking around and the like just becomes generally more difficult so one thing that can be done is to allow individuals to apply for and get driver's licenses and you know what it's good for all of us when they can apply for licenses because we want everyone to be a tested driver but we don't want everyone also to be in shape and insured driver and you can't get insurance if you don't have a driving license so you know if i'm you know involved in an accident you know hopefully everyone that's involved that acts and has insurance and so this is a good thing not only for the individual to get the licenses but it's a good thing for all of it all of us and what's more those people are applying for licenses you know they're putting their name into a into a system so if we're concerned about somebody being a bad guy and there's no reason why we all can't be on the same page about bad guys isn't in the concern of an individual being a bad guy you know in maine you know they may not be likely to apply for this because olson and be on a radar that they don't want to be on but for those people you know those law abiding people the people who want to function normally within our communities the vast majority of the good people that are residents in the state you know this is a good thing and it's something the state can do so that's kind of an example of a significant thing that can be done at the state level i wan make sure we get to what is the process if an individual who has an documented is identified for whatever reason by what happens next to them where do they go what happens to their family if they're in princeton one day employed and a knock on the door pound what happens you know so you know first of all let me just kind of note that it's a it's an evolving process because the ability of immigration customs enforcement is you know changing and you know from their perspective improving you know so when the knock on the door comes you know immigration kind of shows up with tools that it won one time didn't have in assuming they can gain access because they have the appropriate warrant one signed by a judge and not one they've filled out themselves you know they may end up not only apprehending the target of their raid  but also the individual they call collateral others that might be in the house and so one of the tools they have is this kind of portable biometric technology were on the spot they can find you know if  you know who you are and if you know in a system where you are in the system they can decide to take us a collateral with them or we're not to send you a document that places a you in to move things that you get in the mail but the individual who's picked up will likely be likely be taken to the immigration customs enforcement office they'll get processed there they may get released you know depending on their circumstances and so they need to be able to respond quickly to show that there's good reason to let me go out of a primary caretaker i've got kids i've got to get have to get picked up a school i've got health issues my kids have health issues so they maybe they can get released but maybe not and they end up in you know so you know for the family members what do they do you know they're also in on a hunt you know where is my relative and of course it impacts you know it impacts the relatives you know we just you know heard here in new jersey right where two fathers two fathers are dropping their children off at school and after they drop their kids off they get picked up you know what's a horrible about these people and you went quickly over the notion if this happened to me i certainly would assume i had t right to know where my loved one was or this might be someone who maybe is a caregiver in my home and the family doesn't show up and i'm trying to find out what happened concerned about them what what rights if any do i have to find out know one of the one of the the things that you know we as community members can do is you know buddy up with you know somebody or family that we know is vulnerable and that buddy up can take different forms but one of the significant things that we can do is you know hold onto a you know a copy a file of copies of significant documents you know maybe there are past immigration documents maybe there are copies of  passports maybe the person has gotten a power of attorney for someone else to take care of the children if they're not there but it's a you know you know you could be there designated as somebody you know you don't you're not getting picked up if you get picked up  one you can help you know find them but go reach out to a lawyer who can help with that process but it's also important for those people that have children so that both the parents know that if something how if they're the dad who gets picked up that they know that their kids have someplace to go you know after school and for the kids to know you know we you know we've heard plenty of stories of our kids in princeton our children in princeton in kindergarten you know terrified that their parents won't be home when they get out of school and it's something that's happening now and it was something that was happening ten years ago when we saw immigration enforcement getting ramped up and you know you wonder what kind of evil do you have to do for you and your family to experience that you know yeah so when i ask you know who are we as a nation and how are we as a nation you know it's changing you know how to react when certainly your educational career has whose have either one parent or they're working themselves or they have relatives and they've already been affected by the ice raids into the neighborhoods and we've had a couple  students leave school because of this and the fear is great and the fuel is real and they're wondering you know how safe is it because it's a certain place where it's actually safe for people to be but yet when you leave school you're going into the community you leave the church you're going into community when you leave places that are known to you going to community and as a result you build up friendships with other students and then those friendships start to you know fade away and the life that you know starts to fade away and all sudden you're not in the same place that you were and so you're living a life of fear you know i was with results say the only thing the fears is fear itself but fear is known as ice that they're going to come take my parent way and i'm never going to see them again and that's that's that's tangible that's that's real and common people down has been one of the goals of teachers staff and students in the schools and also working with the with the various authorities one thing i want talking about is that we've talked a lot about the federal level the state level now we're at the local level and you know why it's important why this immigration issue is important to every person watching this show right now i important and from your perspective as an immigration attorney doing cases have you seen an increase of people wanting to come u s citizens do you see an increase of processing at the level for people who become u s citizens or do you see less visas happening or has there been a total slowdown in the processing or are people just scared and they're not coming through as much as they did not because of you who you are but because of what's going on you know throughout the nation ye  applicants you know it's a little sad there was an uptick also before the election but the uptick effie lection was much more significant and you know i kind of interpret that as you know the fear is a bigger motivator than hope right and so we had a bigger uptick after the election and those are people pretty you know who are permit residents who are now pursuing citizenship and then among the rest of population there is huge fear you know there's so there's you know i'm actually seeing fewer people in my calling my office because i'm terrified and when i go out and do know your rights programs there are fewer people that are showing up to those and it relates to this sense of isolation and fear  that people are experiencing so that's kind of one half of what you were talking about in the other side the other half has to do with what's happening with processing and  you know there seems to be a combination of hostility and incompetence but you know you kind of catch it and you know i do a lot of work with immigration officers and i i really respect them and you have to respect what their job is you know they don't want to be the officers who let's to let the bad guy and  i tell my clients when we go in for interviews that you have to respect what the officers are dealing with and i think by and large our officers are trying to do the right thing but they're not police officers you know they you know their job is to enforce immigration laws and that's different than what the the the our police department there but their job is but having said that the applications are taking much longer to get processed they're getting scrutinized in new ways things are getting flagged which are not substantive are becoming stumbling blocks for people getting relief and even we've all heard about the hollowing out of the state department and what that means is the state department which administers bisa issuing we just we started off in our earlier program talking about bees issuing the way you get into the united states this is legal immigration is you need to have an officer who's going to process the application and they do that in the state department offices around the world those are our embassies and consulates but if you have less staff if you have a demoralized staff if you have a staff that's instructed to do extreme vetting whatever that might mean as if they weren't already doing a stream that ing everything slows down and it's you know it's going you know our economy seems to be humming along the stark markets going through the roof but at some point this is going to have an impact on us it's going to have an impact on people wanting to come to united states to do their business you know some day it may be that you know we need our visas to go get our elder care outside of the country that will need to go to the philippines to get you know assisted living  you know are we going to get those visas or are we you know leading the way to a hostile global environment where nobody can go anywhere and you know it's you know it's it's challenging well this we don't want people to panic you made that point and i think that's an important point but on the other hand we're adults and i've resisted sort of going back into history to indicate the shutters i'm feeling that are sort of reminiscent of certainly things that my parents felt as young people in the late thirty's and early forty's just just feeling the anxiety so i think you've given us also some very concrete measures which are important for people and analogy is coming to my mind i'm going it's really sort of an emergency planning kind of set of issues there's lots of issues is if you become ill god forbid you know are are  unable to act on you on your own behalf in your home it is important to i'm hearing important to put together papers in a way that you and your family know about that and what i'm hearing is if you have a friend  employee and individual you care about for whatever reason someone it goes to church with you someone whose child is in class and if you sense that they feel vulnerable that i guess i'm leaving with a sense that maybe i should reach out and say if you need to have a set of documents copies a copy or documents you'd want me to know have a contact list of people that i might call if if if you feel it's necessary to think about that that's one planning thing and the other is certainly know your rights as an attorney i feel i feel strongly about that that you need to be prepared to know what your rights are and this is one of the things you have to do for yourself in many ways you have to have the confidence to reach out to someone so so sort of in summary certainly attorney such as you are available are there organizations that people who have these concerns and want to follow through might think about it or or sources on web  websites that that people might just make sure that they have at hand you know who are very lucky here in princeton generally a supportive community a compassionate community that acts on that compassion and i feel like i'm going to be saying that word over and over and over again but the municipality has a human services commission and they're doing great work i'd say out in front work  princeton a welcoming place and giving meaning to that and so that's one resource that people can go to the princeton human services department there's a latin american legal defense and education fund you know you mentioned at the  beginning they're based in trenton but they started here in princeton and they've been servicing people you know throughout you know mercer county and you can find them online and they do great work and they provide you know consultations and also trying to connect people with others if they can help you know find the right contact for people that can help you know certainly if somebody fears that they might be in you know legal jeopardy or is concerned about that you know it's good to get legal counsel   office in edison but there are try to base organizations to like catholic charities and the lutheran social ministries and so these are all organizations that are out there to help of course all of them are be leaders and so you know acting sooner the better  to to be prepared and you know i'd say get your files if you're a vulnerable person get your file prepared so you have all your documents in order and if you were someone you know somebody that's phone will become a buddy to that person maybe just keep a copy of what that file is you know maybe you know you know let that person know that you're there for them for their family members and maybe help in getting powers of attorney on these are different ways of being able to act on your compassion i want to thank you very much trying for coming in and talking to us about a very important issue immigration and the many complexities that it continues to unfold on an hour by hour basis little on a day by day basis and really getting  giving our audience chance to explore some of those avenues and know what some of the ever use of help and assistance that they can give to those who are currently you know in a quagmire right now but we do appreciate it with forward to you know having you back maybe later in the year and talking about what has evolved and giving us updates along the way as to what's going on in the in the world of immigration hopefully to the better it's a better scenario a couple  months from now than hopefully it is today but behalf of chris grant and myself i'm lou goldstein thank you for watching and we hope to see you again next week when we have another newsmaker on our show open source till then have a good night stay healthy they act we'll see you next