bowl freeways in miami vice tough guy characterized by much thought and hard work as maybe with max yesterday is then is very physical and i'm kind of really nervous nervous person i was nervous energy and always kind of like grounds me you know cuts the edges when i work with paintings or drawings and do that you always have to kind of do everything right once you know and i never get relaxed and then i mean i paint draw i'm just as and i'm more nervous when i buy a time  it started with pottery i always really kind of feel relaxed you know and i surf a lot more used to i don't get to do it as much anymore and that's the ultimate relaxation you know is three hours in the water and then you're just like again has it been difficult for you after you graduated from graduate school to find work or to find a teaching position are pursued a gallery market well it's certainly difficult to find a teaching position and one of my problems is that i really am not willing to leave the area that i live in you know for lots of reasons you know family members when i was younger it was because i just didn't want to give up serving you know and then now with the family you know it's like we take care of my mother in law and my parents live close by and they help watch your son you know and it's a more extended family it's so you know it's not worth it to him my wife has a good job you know she likes her job i mean just for my career you know to pick up and get it teaching job and make less money than i make now and that's that's really the but i would really like to teach and hopefully you know i'm sure as i get older you know i probably be more in line for better jobs or jobs really hire older people that you do teach part time i teach right time at city college and i enjoy that very much but you know it's only i only do it because i like to do  mean i'm not making much money at it but i get to do some work there too you know and i usually take a lot of small things that i make in my studio and throw in the kiln their units of save me the cost of that four days a week i work in that and then i would teach at night a couple nights a week and you know then the other you know i just like come home and eat dinner and play with my son and put him to bed and go out in the studio work for two or three hours at night and on the weekends work sometimes you know all day and then sometimes no work you know in construction you don't have to work every day if there isn't a job and so i will do that you know have we got to know that's how that works ok do you have a professional strategy to promote your work you know not first say that hadn't surprised i don't in the sense that i'm getting to a point now or maybe i would would like to push some things more but for years and i've shown no i mean but not in the gallery not in a sales gallery tradition you know i've shown in museums and i mean you  know galleries that were really focused towards the sales you know mostly in and in that way and so you know a lot of museums use in and collection shows things like so working toward that goal you know showing more in these last few years so hopefully it'll work out ceramic is very popular and there's lots of galleries that but i'm not really into making designer ceramics and i think that's a real trend you know with a lot of stuff and that's not a cruise that is unnecessary it just means that you know i'm not focused that way and if i the one criticism i've had of the sumps some of the ceramics is that there's a lot of things that are very similar in basically because the technology's so open and available you know there's a lot of things that look alike you know in services and drawing painting and the images in the drawing and painting or you know kind of related other aspects of art history besides ceramics and so i just because it's clay doesn't mean that you know i mean  material so i mean i have a lot of my tradition forms is in other art you know aside ceramic or do you ever use your clay in your and your contract in construction or we've installed ceramic tile but i've never made any tile to sell the customers because it's sort of technology in there you know and it takes so much time that i don't have the time to to do that maybe this  my last question and i don't know if you have any response to this or not but i did want to throw it out there is if you could making changes in the ceramic field what what would they be but with the changes