ecumenical liberation theology center in jerusalem is the author of justice and only justice a palestinian theology of liberation dr geoff helper is the coordinator of the israeli committee against house demolitions and israeli american peace activist professor of anthropology author acclaimed speaker and nobel prize nominee i would begin with a short introduction about the whole question of the the problem that some of us have been confronted with for a long time is really when you see when you see evil when you see  to grow an expansion and deepening in deepening and and it seems to us that the israeli government  is doing what it wants to do and no one is able to stop it i mean that's really the reality that we are facing every day and we are concerned about living together in peace but we are also aware that so long as israel continues to expand to continue continues to confiscate palestinian land expand the settlements humiliate the palestinians increase the number of of checkpoints all that is really happening on a daily basis for those of us who live there and for our friends who come to really see a symmetrical or a basis so long as that happens you know you sit back and you see what can i do you know what what is it what can we do in such a situation so like many other organizations have been trying really to educate people about what's happening back home we try to really help them understand what's what's happening we receive groups on a regular basis people who want to who want to come to serbia want to know about what's happening in the country and we have speakers that speak to them and these some of these groups go around and they see for themselves what's really happening and the constant question is how can you stop the injustice how can you stop the evil that is taking place and how do you end the occupation these are of the questions that we normally organization we thought that let us see what we can do through our contacts through our churches after all they would perceive us as brothers and sisters  christ they can trust us as christians we can tell them what's really happening and maybe we can get them motivate them to really do something about what's happening so a number of years ago i mean we started trying to help people understand what's happening and then we also felt that it is very important if the  church investing its money and when we discovered them we asked we checked with our friends the different denominations because sybil is is is positioned in a very good i think way we have most of the mainline churches are supportive of our ministry and so we checked you know where is the church or where is your denomination investing its its funds and when we discover that like other businesses even the church has to invest its money because they have so many responsibilities we found out that sometimes the church is investing in companies and benefiting from from these investments but they were not asking whether these companies are really working as an example on the west bank in the occupied territories to say the least so when a company is really profiting from like say selling machines and these machines are demolishing palestinian homes and almost close to twenty thousand palestinian homes have been demolished boy in the caterpillar machines then we have felt that this is immoral and work you know work but we're not against boycott we're not obviously against sanctions countries want to sanction israel i think that's wonderful it needs to be done but we felt from our position that let's go with the churches these are our partners they have billions of dollars when you look at all the churches billions of dollars in investments you know especially the pension plans that they have a lot of this so let's work with our own people our own friends unless really challenge them to do something about it well it turned out that it was more difficult than we had thought because immediately much stronger people than we are little said we are nothing compared to these bigger groups of pro israeli american jews the jewish federation the american jewish committee they're a pac and it's all different branches and so on who have very good friends within the churches and the battle continues to rage in that sense and although many of our friends are really trying their best to really do some sort of government or even shareholder  all of this actually to my knowledge i stand corrected but to my knowledge they have not really been that successful because of the pressure and not only pressure that's coming from the outside but some of these new cons some of these approaches really groups find allies that are members of the churches themselves so there is pressure from inside the denomination that is preventing their own denominations from doing any divestments so the battle continues from our perspective we think that even if the churches divest i don't think it will be a big i mean israel will lose very much because israel is a very strong economically and israel has many strong economic relations with all over the world but we have felt that if the church is have the courage to take that kind of a stand psychologically it would be damaging to israel i mean israel will know that the churches are taking stand against the injustice which the israelis are committing against the palestinians and we feel that it needs to happen and it's really again from my perspective it's really shame if the church doesn't it very strong stand you know against the injustice because we don't really know where to turn the united nations is very ineffective the united states controls the united nations the united states itself that min is not willing to sanction or to really challenge israel that's not going to happen we we see how the president of the united states has been behaving and so is he we are not going to get anywhere with that kind of approach and so where do you turn when there is evil in front of you when there is injustice and you don't know what to do and at least we think that people of faith whether they're christians or muslims  jews need to take a stand and that's where we have turned to and so far it has not really been very successful so i hope that time of the discussion if you have better ideas what can we really do how can you what can you do within your own denomination within your own faith community what can you really deep you know what can you really do to put pressure and to get your denomination to move that's what we are really trying to do because we the injustice and we are able really to make an impact my name is jeff helper i'm the head of the israeli committee against house demolitions which is an israeli  political peace organization dedicated to ending the occupation totally and to achieving a just peace with the palestinians whatever form that might take and i want to approach  but at the same time i think our our issue our problem is to teach equally that we have to try to bring the israel palestine issue to local and the other people here we talk about the occupation and house demolitions and settlements and walls and you know what happens is we end up with a group like like you go in other words people interested in israel palestine come in listen and nobody else does you know there's millions of progressive critical people in the united states not to mention the world that are involved in all kinds of issues that never come and never you know because it was so fragmented and part and then the most people for most people this is a far away thing it's somebody described that once as white noise you know it's been a conflict since local public and one and so i believe in tying up to more global issues other issues as well and then bringing it back home and one of the books i'm reading now that's that's really amazing is n klein's the shock doctrine if you haven't read it because you have to read it that's the assignment i'm here in the university i give you an assignment it's really an amazing book and it's all about  less a fair capitalist system that the united states has been pushing this since the days of nixon milton friedman you know was the guru of that whole approach and the disaster  product on the world but but what's happening to the palestinians in a sense isn't unique to palestinians i want to read you a little quote from her but in the  very approach the very concept of this let's say fair capitalism is the idea that depending on the country between twenty five and sixty percent of the people of any country are superfluous their surplus humanity you don't need them the capitalist system doesn't need them you've got a thin a fin layer of rich people that profit from the system they need another layer a certain layer of middle class people to kind of support the system they maybe need a few more skilled workers although fewer and fewer and of course you can outsource to other superfluous populations and get cheap labor and most people you don't need maybe in the united states maybe that's more than twenty five percent to maybe bolivia is more of the sixty percent but a good chunk of your population is what's called surplus humanity and basically there's nothing to do with these people they'll never be educated they'll never be a skilled workforce you don't need them they're not really consumers and and therefore the problem becomes you know we have this whole argument should we use the word apartheid or not is a part you know well there's a word that goes way beyond the party that naomi klein uses but she's not the first one to use this term and that is warehousing reidy talk about our turk where we're developing systems to where those surplus humanity and she has a whole chapter of israel which she says there are many surplus populations in the world immigrants poor people probably the entire third world as we call it  but she said the palestinians are the first people to be defined by the international community as a surplus population it has absolutely no point of existence it shouldn't be there you know israel always had this policy the should be a third state between israel and jordan you've got israel you've got jordan palestinians want to want to be there they can be in one of those two places or they can go move somewhere else there's no need for a palestinian state it's not necessary for the international system it doesn't contribute anything it's a population of surplus humanity and therefore what israel is basically doing that goes beyond the occupation is it's developing means of control that i've called the matrix of control to warehouse permanently where piles and entire people and it's a model that can be export because and listen to this quote from the only climb from from from her book the war on terrorism is not a war that can be won by a country but winning is not the point the point is to create security inside fortress states bolstered by the endless low level conflict outside their walls it's in israel that this process is most advanced and entire country has turned itself into a fortified gated community surrounded by law our people living in permanently excluded red zones this is what a society looks like when it is lost it's an economic incentive for peace and as heavily invested in fighting and problem from an unwinnable war on terrorism one part looks like israel the other part is like gaza israel's case is it is extreme but the kind of society it's creating may not be unique the disaster capitalism complex thrives on conditions of low intensity grinding conflict that seems to be the end point in design in a disaster zone from new orleans to iraq what israel has constructed is a system a network of open holding hands for millions of people who've been categorized as surplus humanity palestinians are not the only people in the world who have been so categorized this discarding of twenty to sixty percent of the population has been the hallmark of the chicago school of economics of milton friedman of their crusade since the seventy's in south africa russia and new orleans the rich build walls around themselves israel has taken this disposal process a step further  sions makes this point is that is that we're complicit in other words certainly we're on the winning side i mean if this is the specter of a corporate world in which the rich elite rule and where how's the search surplus poor i mean churches not churches good people not good people whatever where are the elite so we have a special responsibility where the educated were the trained were the intellectuals you know we're the ones that if we don't run the system we're certainly part of the system and so i think we have to create this specter of where the world is going and to look at it at the israel palestine at the occupation not only as a specific thing that you know it be nice if you are interested in it but there's a lot of other things to think about and to say no this is a model of the future as naomi klein calls it that is coming into your society and not only that but your society is leading that crusade and so what  but i would i would suggest campaigns that really bring this home to the local community for example or in san diego and if there's a belly of the beast it's got to be san diego i mean this place is military the fine san diego i think one of the one of the a a campaign for example of sanctions is we should stop the american arms trade with israel now this is something to get its arms that are being used against civilians in palestine i mean this is a military conflict it's a low intensity conflict that sometimes gets into a high intensity and and the suffering and the cruelty but not only that it's you know james baker the republican calls it the most destabilizing conflict in the world the epicenter of global instability so there's a there's an interest here in the world and in the united states to resolve this conflict you know but arms is huge part of it you know congolese or rice announced about six months ago the united states is sending thirty billion dollars worth of arms to israel over the next eight years now i'm going to assume that san diego plays a role in this i mean the arms have got to be manufactured here shipped from here planned from i mean san diego's got to have some connection to this i think it needs a little investigating but if it in other words to make it a local issue if the people here would say you know what we're not just sitting here where we're a part of this holds complex or for example the whole issue of police forces you know it is if you look at the occupation not as an occupation if you look at the occupied territories as a laboratory in which israel has four million people that are getting peace they can do anything they want to with them and they do an experiment in different kinds of counter insurgency weaponry and tactics and if we begin to reclaim the language the insurgents are not the bad guys the way bush speak would have it the insurgents are the people so israel is using its occupation it's using the palestinians as guinea pigs to develop sophisticated weaponry and tactics for fighting people now israel works intimately with police local police forces in the united states i know for certain have never been to this place i know that the san diego police force has been in israel for training and if there haven't been members of the san diego police force in the janine refugee camp looking at how israel does counterinsurgency i'd be very surprised i'd be very surprised that there aren't israeli security people here i know just a week or so ago the los angeles los angeles signed a whole agreement with an israeli security firm for two to run the security of l a x this is a local issue because what we have to emphasize to people is that it's a slippery slope it's not even a slope between from the military to security firms to your local police force and i'm writing an article now that i think is exactly the point i'm writing an article that's in titled the role from the obtuse gaza and flew joe leads to your door because i don't think the counterinsurgency stuff it's being developed a knob by israel isn't going to find its way into the san diego police force you know in other words my point is to take some of these issues that directly tie whatever your local community i mean we could be in kansas city we could be in in denver doesn't matter where where every you are there's a connection to this to the military connection there's a high tech connection there's a police connection some cause some connection and if we begin to focus on those kinds of things and then talk about sanctions and divestment and so on it companies that are local companies or local police forces that are that have these kinds of things i think it brings it brings the whole thing home to people much more news and it would become a local issue and would get people bring it back home to the local communities and i think b d s if we if we if we choose the right issues and do it the right way and with this local  d dimension i think could be a very powerful way to to approach things