sure that our students and youth in our community are healthy and thriving this is an area that george is an expert and we're very delighted to have you so welcome to the show to our thank you very much for the invitation so it's been to tell me a little bit about your background where you work the work that you do  sure historically my first career was actually in public education i've been a director student services so i've been having district responsibilities for special education and counseling and health services and school safety so that actually got me through mostly the thirty years of the work that i did beginning here in mercer county and then i ended up in the south brunswick in middlesex county so the know what brought you into the counseling five yeah you know it was interesting because although i was ready to leave the administrators work i wasn't ready to leave so i went back to school and got some postmasters training in marriage and family therapy my wife had already been a therapist we set up a practice in ewing and that's what kind of became the mental health piece of this and now what i've planted is mental health and education and mental health in the classroom because it's really critically important piece absolutely so what are you seeing in young people today what challenges or issues are they facing yeah let me just start with a kind of a statement of optimism the large majority of our kids are well they're doing well they have their challenges they've got supportive families they overcome obstacles along the way they're happy the successful is that's the good news because sometimes we have a tendency to think that all kids are struggling that's that's clearly not true i am concerned about fifteen to twenty percent of our kids however to varying degrees and it is a different culture and they've been raised by different parents from a different culture so result of that although the values the home values may be the same the expectations the stressors the fragmentation of family sometimes the breaking up of family even families that don't divorce sometimes break up inside the home so the kids begin to suffer in bits and pieces over time and as a result of that they were unable to really kind of call forth the best of who they are because they have a lot of other burdens that that they're trying to manage definitely so that you mention just now struck me as i was at a conference this summer where there was a speaker talking about intergenerational dynamics as the speaker is talking about you know baby boomers raising money and some of those and how the generation that we  and definitely affects our parenting it's a part of what you're seeing today it's sort of like there's this generation of parents and there's it's generation of kids and we have to look at both things yeah if we look at youth health it's a good starting point you know there was a time the close shave was helicopter all right that was the parent that hovered hovered hovered well we've seen that change and now it's more like a snowplow parents and what that means is parents want to eliminate all problems and hurdles and bumps in the road for their children because their goal is only that the kids or be happy what they miss is if kids don't take on the challenges bit by bit as they're growing up they never develop the resilience of they need when things really get big as adults so generational parenting absolutely no effect which is why a lot of my work is with parents in the evenings i'll do parent presentations on the issue of raising healthy kids so i feel like there's sort of this rhetoric today that you hear in the media that you hear in schools are you hearing communities about kids who are struggling differently than perhaps past generations have you know we talk about things like suicide rates and drug use and other issues that stress levels anxiety that our kids have and schools that we sort of look back on childhood i might say oh that was in our schools at the time our kids struggling in different ways than other generations are is the same things that are manifesting themselves different i was sort of going on with that i think they do struggle differently and i think the differences they struggle more intensely  interesting you know the research says that it's not as much of what you experience the negatives that you experience that affection negatively it's whether or not you have a social support system to kind of come behind you and say it's ok we'll get through this together many times kids don't feel like there's somebody there for them they could be surrounded by people but they feel alone where they feel not good enough where they feel they isolate themselves so i do believe that there's a large number there again i keep using the rough fifteen to twenty percent where within that group or kids that stumble and fall in stumble and fall unfortunately some kids stumble fall never get up and that that's the group that causes the greatest amount of worry i just want to talk about the the most tragic of it and that's the suicide rate that you mentioned yes we see this uptick of thirty percent that we haven't seen in twenty thirty years and that that gives you pause like what changed what happened i was born and raised in mercer i live in mercer i work in mercer and just to be more specific in the past eighteen months we've had five or six zero side deaths among high school level kids who are middle school level kids that's a lot that's a real concern and i know that  conklin from the school district or i talk a lot with mr snyder mr burr from the schools here they are absolutely concerned about that apps and that's why we're doing lots of putting the information out what are the resources how do parents change what's going on at home and i'm really pleased to be kind of tangentially associated with princeton schools as a consultant because the caliber of the thinking and the openness about wellness that they are focused on it will pay off and i know well we can get our heads down and we can get sad about it but when they when they continue to focus on how do we make this better for kids it'll pay off and that is something that we definitely are working on throughout the district as you know things like even changing the start time to high school kids get more sleep news the good news is no matter what has happened prior you can always change as parents we have a lot of power as parents even though we think that we don't have any influence or control over our kids no we don't have control but we have a lot of influence and what we recognize is when the parents can change the way they will they see themselves when they take a look at their own stuff talk about the intergenerational sat off when they are interested in their own healing it changes the dynamic in the family and when you change a system everything in the system changes including the kids yeah so the idea of paying attention is critically important the idea of resources is critically import i always strongly influence the school district regardless of your relationship with the school district it has a vested interest in the wellbeing of your child reach out call the counselor call the call the school nurse find a teacher that you really can relate to because they have then a connection to bigger resources and when you wrap families and kids and resources things get better princeton has good resources within the community so excuse me so you know one of the things is to pay attention the other thing is is to if if your gut tells you that you're worried about your kid don't dismiss it trust that gut feeling we know it's good instincts that moms and dads have about their children yet and we know that um that's where you reach out and you talk to somebody about your worries about your concerns you connect with those resources absolutely do yeah so you talked a little bit about the family structure starting at home and really paying attention to what's going on in your home and how that might be affecting your lives or your students life caves examples about things that you might see or the patterns trends that you might be seeing that you say oh we if we change that in our culture in our community then this would be better if any of them you know there's one that's a really great example and it is held consistent in the research the end result the more frequently moms and dads or moms or dads or grandparents or whoever the adults in the house yeah the more frequently those adults and the children sit down over dinner to gather the healthier the kids are interested that's the research now the reason for that is because life is crazy chaotic kids are on multiple schedules moms and dads have multiple jobs perhaps coming home late and what happens is everybody scurries and does whatever they need to do but it's fragments right one of the basic needs of human beings is attachment we know that from from conception right on up through school the more the kids are connected the more they're attached to significant adults the healthier they are yeah so dinner does that and it'll be awkward we're probably also suggests that that's a time for conversation it's a time for laughing it's a time to discover what your brothers and sisters have been doing or what the mom and dad have been doing so that's just one example of practicality that actually has a deep human need connection that can happen in the home where you stop th schedules you stop the craziness you all come together for half an hour you've been and you you just start to gather you've got a phone without your devices your devices including mom and dad being with that device you know in the practice many times kids will say those say to their mom you know you you just never willing to listen to me a mom says but i'm always willing to listen to you and say it's not true every time i come and i start a conversation with you you say could you hold that i got to take this call so right away it's a right we're going to talk tonight because that brings families closer together and it's healthier are there any other ideas that you have i love that idea of the practicality of and something that you know might be difficult to get all the schedules to line but if you start one day a week if you start two or three days a week you start to build that you have other ideas for ways that again families can sort of take some of the stress away take some things id away and build that support for the out you know one of the things that is missing is play interesting play doesn't have any agenda it's just fun it's people have an opportunity to laugh they opportunity to connect there is no none of the harmful teasing only fun teasing and one of the things the researchers have said is kids play less and less and less oh don't get me wrong they have formal playdates that's not the same as playing within the family they play sports but even that has a competitive edge and a high anxiety edge so the issue is how does the family stay together outside without many families are saying you know we started going to we're doing board games oh it's a week we're getting right it's board game night it's parcheesi it's life it's whatever we used to play when we were growing up and now no electronics and everybody gets a chance to learn cooperation and laughing and fun there are things that kids of all ages even are even a really smart independent high school kids really love to get reconnected because it feels  trusting there is a presentation that a couple of school counselors last year to pre k families talking about preparing kids for the start of the school year and becoming a kindergartner and it was really interesting as board games or other things that they said it teaches kids critical thinking salut teach them cooperation it teaches them about rules you know they actually have to follow a set of guidelines and it's and it's fun and it's play and they really and i thought it was an interesting idea that kindergartners of a year also saying all the way up to senior in high  something that gives that kid free time to play and be fun with pressure absolutely right just giving your kid attention parents will say oh my kid's so selfish for my kid so those are my kids so that some of our kids need more time with an individual parent oh interesting you know they just need to go for a walk around the block yeah they go for a ride the car intentional time intentional time but it's not an intentional with genda it's i miss you what's been going on in your life yeah here's my concern is your dad where kids begin to realize oh he does matter he does care about me all mom and dad are worried about me that's a way of bridging this chasm this gap that has gets created sometimes between members of the family is when communications up i contact is up they're not doing interrogation they're not doing you should do this it's none of their preaching and teaching it's i'm your dad  that the people you work with in our community or you know some of your clients that students feel after a while like their parents are just checking in to see how the greats are to come to the baseball game and see if they want to or not whether they get into college if they've finish applications is it sort of a checklist a noun a lot of relationships rather than that sort of i'm just your dad just your mom always together always one of the kids biggest complaint is that i mean this goes to a parenting style is they never have private time because somebody is always looking into their life whether they go online to check their grades that they get the assignment stand you have anything to do this kind of push push push now if you've done a really nice job of raising your kids then give them some private space to practice what you've taught them in terms of your values if they fall down ok it's not fatal snog disastrous then use that as a problem solving opportunity what could you do different next time as opposed to a tell us depending upon where they are certainly that there's only two two two places or two dots that they can fall on either there are a loser or they're a winner but there's nothing in between so therefore if they don't get an a then they're a loser right if they don't get into that class they're a loser and actually are there's so much more in between and some poor kids just need an opportunity to take a breath to kind of because it's tough being an adolescent sometimes it's even tougher being a middle school kid and you know when i say i say this to parents more we're doing parent training what i used to see in behavior in high school now i see in middle school and interesting what i used to see in middle school now i see in elementary school so we've taken all these grown up behaviors and we push them down to our younger kids who in their normal biology in the way they're wired cannot manage it right they need an opportunity to kind of do their developmental appropriate things schools know what that is exactly but when you dump too much on them at some point it begins to fracture them and they don't handle it as well so you talked about those two dots that i feel like kids feel like there's sort of the failing and there's a so how do we help them see that there's more between those and there might actually be more beyond those i think a lot about the idea we have certain things that we say that success but maybe actually failing at something is more successful because he tried he took a risk so how do we help kids see the nuances and how do we help parents see that support that yeah and i'll back to something that i said earlier you know you can't teach something you don't believe in so there's a do as i say not as i do so therefore if you believe that  if you're not doing up here then you're not a number only disappointed if that's your belief as a parent for whatever your reasons you know and i'm not suggesting that they're bad reasons i'm suggesting that they are reasons perhaps the parents really are invested in their kids doing well how about their kids very much some thrive they want large majority life absolutely true but if you do don't believe that there are gray areas on that if you don't believe there's some other ways to be successful if you don't believe that your kids kind of grow and change to different sports and times then it's really tough for parents to do that and i always suggest to parents either privately in a therapy session or public in a presentation check your own baggage you know just tune into yourself how reasonable do you think that is or when you have a conversation with your spouse or partner if there is a spouse or partner or you're willing to listen to the other say you know you're a little harsh on her you're a little harsh on him without being defensive right so is that communication going well to what we know as family therapist is is that kids are symptoms of the bigger system they live in kids are not the problem it's usually a parenting stressor that's going on or a stressor with an individual parent could be as much  as a diagnosis or undiagnosed mental illness or could be an addiction it can be they may have grown up of something called the adverse childhood experience study where what we know is if you have these high eisa scores then you're going to have over over your adult life both physically and emotionally going to have a lot of difficulty less you're aware of it recognize what you can do forward take care of yourself and bring all those stressors down when parents do that kids do better right right well you and i were  talking before we started this shows that about the idea of things that are symptoms versus things that are the root we're talking about student mental health and we're saying you know in our nation we see these stories about depression rates of anxiety and stress and these levels guy rocketing  the body and minds way of telling you something's not right it enough itself it's not the issue the issue is there's a back story there's something deeper that's not going well that then presents itself as either anxiety symptoms or depression symptoms so the issue really is wellness that is we have a phrase it's called going upstream ok we're going upstream means that and it begins with a small story about the rescuing kids from the river where the kids in the river were not sure how they got there to begin with some of them are drowning and some of them need rescuing we've got to go upstream find out why they were there to begin with so going upstream really simply means so let's kind of check in and see what are the stress levels in the family you know is there a tendency because of frustration or because a parent's growing up experience that there's chronic humiliation that goes on in the family chronic humiliation is the number one reason why kids feel bad about themselves because they're called not stupid or worse you never amount to anything you're nothing like your brother your sister chronic humiliation human beings do not like to be humiliated so if you go  upstream and you find out that well that's just kind of how we do business in our family and we connect that to outcomes which means that your kids are bullying in school because that's how they feel that they get through life you begin to make a connection and parents can make an adjustment yeah you know so there are lots of things that we can do with the emotional punishments or emotional tensions in the family or physical tensions or addictions or or even divorce you know we say to parents the science stand the divorce rate i get it i'm a i'm a marriage therapist i am know that but let's not normalize it let's not tell kids it's just plain ok because all their friends parents are divorced it's ok for your parents to divorce divorce generally not always generally is devastating for kids the better it's done the less devastating those devastated it's going to affect that child because they're always afraid they're going to lose out on one of those lovely had parents so even if you say this this is a reality can't undermine the fact that they cannot affect it and their kids adults make decisions about the kids receive it emotionally they're not there to figure it out or take sides now right there they're going to feel the emotional pain so we talk a lot in education right now about the term resilience yallop resilience in our kids you know so how do we do that how do we do that as a community how to change the culture how to change the culture of our schools how we change the culture holmes that kids do have that skill of resilience you know that when they get hit with something hard or they there they fail at something and i feel like failures likely they are at their core protective factors against bad stuff happening to them not because of happening but stuff happening and it affecting them so resiliency starts really tolerate right resilien about kids feeling connected and that they belong that they're important that they're special that helps develop resiliency and not special i'm assuming because they did something wrong but just because they are loved it's an affirmation of who they are not a trophy for what they did ok right because everybody doesn't get a trophy all the time right that's one of those snowplow parent moments where they don't want to see their kid weeping because they don't get a trophy so they'll get them one that takes away this how do you deal with the disappointment how do you turn it into a go to do better next time so that's part of the resiliency piece yeah right it is also in terms of i have a phrase that i use like i believe all kids should be able to understand their role in having a contribution to the family ok that which means that the family is a moving lots of moving parts right there's a lot of things that have to be done for families to function well and moms and dads do the heavy lifting but the other pieces that our children should be encouraged to be a part of or to have a part of or and to contribute because it makes the family operate better right without being paid for it's not a paid job it's a contribution family do when families do that will go back to the intergenerational it breaks the cycle and it generationally now these kids grow up expecting their kids to have a contribution a family so we can shift it by paying attention to it by understanding by having conversations and by practicing it it's interesting you also mentioned something a minute ago where you talk about the trophies and kids their parents are going to their kids cry i was reading recently an article that talked about how emotions are good in me like to say that being sad is bad being angry is bad being hurt is bad because i'm funded motion yeah but in fact those are emotions and being able to have a full spectrum of emotions is part of that resilience very much so let me go broader on that our girls have that interesting because culturally we allow girls to feel things everyone does have the potential for but they're now road so therefore why are we surprised that our boys grow up and deal with frustration with anger that's the only emotion they know that's the only emotion that they feel comfortable that express it that's been allowed that's been allowed as a man exactly so you're absolutely right we have wide spectrum emotions are wonderful now out of control emotions aren't but there are red flag that says hey pay attention to it don't squash it don't penalize it understand what's going on because the more our kids can express those emotions the more they see them express the more they realize that that's part of what it means to be human and then when they are disappointed they can actually say i am really sad and i'm really disappointed right so those broad emotions we all have potential for that culture just tells a different story with gender differences yeah yeah i've been listening to everything that you're saying i think that there's so much that we can take away as educators as a school district as a community as parents it's really sort of all of those pieces coming together and saying are we are paying attention to our kids are we listening are we are we making decisions that help them become the best adult they can be rather than perhaps placating in the moment or just being in the moment and thinking about long term goal do you have any final final advice found words of wisdom that sort of the big takeaway you know if you could leave parents if you leave educators if you  leave the community with one message about how we can empower students how we can help them thrive and develop resiliency but with a message be well let me start with this comment from personal point of condemning and unfortunately that gets played down on our kids and gets interpreted in their interactions with each other so if there was one message and the pay attention message is really critical and that is one of the ways that we nurture independence in our children is to keep them close now that sounds like it's oxymoronic how do you create independence and reign in the radios because keeping them close nurtures reassures lets them know you have their back lets them know they always have a place to come back to if in fact things start to fall apart but that what you will do is give them the space to practice give them the space to try new things and as long as the communication is going on or if mom and dad are not the significant adult there is one significant adult that's what the research says one person a teacher a counselor a grandparent an aunt and uncle somebody from the faith group a coach somebody that this kid says that person always welcome is me always supports me always helps me then that kid will really do much much better in life it's wonderful thank you so much for one for new jersey hope line one for second for help line their great might last piece of advice is for parents to see these on the on the screen have their kids put those numbers in their phones one hundred help people one hundred hope so it doesn't matter