audience welcome it's a pleasure walking to a to the program a young man that i have coming in with more recently and that through the association i've had over a longer term for those of you who may have viewed conversations with that was coauthored by rodney and also by robert ashford and he's in association with rodney rodney recommended him to me and i got in touch with you and i'm so glad that rodney let me know but you were out there and in brooklyn so we get in touch to make this program thank you for having really enjoyed a telephone conversation i've been i would say off the outset his name is eunice abdul mohamed and he is he has a website it's got a very interesting title it's revolution muslim dot com that's pretty easy to remember revolution muslim dot com that's a site it's called it's very interesting it's got a great deal of interesting material there and he is an association of rodney shakespeare from an islamic perspective and also also from an understanding of economics in particular the sort of arcane yet i think destined to become the system that's going to be informing the world economy this binary economic notion and all of that we're going to talk about yes indeed ok share with us a little bit your own background personal now but share your own background well i was born and raised in america and i a the convert to islam so ten years ago i became muslim by choice after investigation of several religious ideologies and stumbled upon the miracle that is represented by the islamic  religion and came to accept it as my religion and came soon thereafter to discover that it's now represents a complete a comprehensive way of life which includes an economic system a social system a political system and a system of legislation by which every muslim considers divine so we call this the show you and your is the way technically from a linguistic sense it means the water hole that the animals will gather down sense it is the idea of comparable use trying to make the argument comparable to what some people would call a rule of law or a system not comparable  but it has a very clear rules and regulation which is the how the ball was made with the human intellect versus what was revealed to the prophet mohammed through what we call the right but i think the important distinction that he made was that it was something that the western need to be fearful of as it in barked upon most assessments with great cultural differences so there's a great deal of difference is absolutely but he is trying to respects these different yeah and that's what most people don't understand that's interesting they think of this big tent they would call it are a big umbrella well india can get under the law says in the cultures customs and tongues not so that they can dominate one another or be gathered together and one collective similar unit must that they can travel around to get to know one another and this is accepted by all of them seem so cross the globe so it's then has certain ten universal principles that we accept as true like taking the interest out of the economic system get ahead yeah because a lot of people will talk to sure because there's a great use to be you're too young to remember but it used to be in terms of the people who see the world geopolitically and so forth sure that there was an established orders coming out of history constitution all that kind of thing and then you had a capitalist system that was there and a lot of interest and a lot of geo political and sure on the world and the enemy does your then of the  but now the enemy does your seems to be in a very real sense is law so because they've best be taken the place of the common and there's a great deal of propaganda that we're we are submitted to in terms of that where they take a certain thing somebody's going to cut off the hand or they've got the they do end their propaganda and they're running a campaign of propaganda against the enemy which has become in the minds of many well it certainly has transferred that's the title of the web site revolution muslim yeah and what we revolution but from a political science definition actually represents the complete replacement of one system with another system is that like paradigm shift that thomas kuhn's theory applies i think from the scientific realm you could transfer that across to a political science which is less  scientific but certainly we see the world moving in a direction i think that suggests that we're barking upon this path of awareness by the general mass of humanity that the dominant paradigm does not serve the interests of them coming from the normally accept and then each system that's in place i suppose the emperor's a rome thought of themselves as legitimate and that you've got a thing the kings of england with their dynastic satan thought they were illegitimate now we have a system that's largely set up on a globalizing pattern globalization and it's all on economics and the american system that has been adopted more or less the canon of the economic since adam smith and so forth is more or less been accepted and that countries around the world that are association with the united states are the marxist would call them running dogs that go along with the united states and they follow the pattern that set up by the united states and her allies and the states is is historically legitimate is not it does not have a system adequate to what the future requires for humanity a paradigm paradigm a paradigm shift has to occur and the impetus for that very well might come from the scholarly components of the islamic world does that make any sense to you and is there a need to challenge it at the level of the illegitimacy of what they have for our operating geopolitically this planet well absolutely and that thus the term revolution which scares a lot of people yeah well this is scary but if humanity needs to organize itself under a collective obstacle or over a conscious movement that opposes what we see exist in the world right now  islam offers it a complete system as i said before a comprehensive system and a system that when you take away the ideological attachment or maybe the a rigid religious affinity for it or toward it when you weigh it objective and humanity is becoming aware that this is not the case from nation states like china and russia and india which are collectively sort of trying to form collaborative efforts to sort of come back although they go along with it because our paradigm they have i loses its value then the entire economy of their nation and the entire wealth of their elite loses its value because it's just paper so they don't have the gold to swap for the dollar that's a fine point to put on something like that's why they have to go along they don't necessarily want to go on but there's no alternative so when you saw china suggest in two thousand and eight the end of towards two thousand and eight i believe they made a suggestion that was excepted by timothy geithner for a day and then pulled back because the dollar started to drop rapidly that they were going to use the i m f swap system in no way shape or form have they come up with a solution to the ills in the elections and all this talk of recovery nonsense that's going on in the world right now only is to preserve time and buy time for them to hope that things get better but a monetarist system can indeed malfunction it happened in germany under hyperinflation under the wymore system and it's happened throughout history when you look at the end of empires for example the roman empire when it crumbled it used to have gold and silver stacked back to currencies yeah and they were melted down and reprocessed so much so that the inflation was so rampant that part of the reason of their decline was depreciation hyperinflation and complete catastrophic collapse of their currency you know empires rise and fall and we do see and this is a system that is taught  to us by the koran in the words of which the muslims consider the koran to be and speech and it is taught to us that we are supposed to allow gives us a command and he says travel around and see what was the end of those nations those those those groups that people are familiar with the term i pray besides people that are black that are brown that are from different cultures different cultures and different languages and when i get up from my prayer not only do i feel the peace of worshipping my creator but i feel the brotherhood of a community that is collectively gathered five times a is good he's coming in here this man told him prepared the way for the world for the globalization that we see right now when he heightened interest rates under carter and the sort of the ship industry overseas because if you had to do something under twenty percent interest rate and the if they prepared the way for the deliberate dismantling of the industrial capacity of the united states it wasn't just a result of a certain technological capability that was growing it was i mean we're all that remember we didn't ministration we didn't have  counterculture was a conscious decision as a youth growing up in america noticing that there was nothing to be offered by the dominant paradigm searching quite naturally i think in the counterculture music interpol wading into anything  entire group of people and the courage that those people exhibited in order to bring those troops home and they played a major portion of that but then from that movement sprung sort of two directions in many ways the movement for justice in the stopped and it ceased because they didn't want to change the paradigm they just wanted to change certain things that were a byproduct of the paradigm reform tried to refinance they wanted more justice they wanted more rights but in the end they got assimilation and they became the very enemy that they were fighting it seeing that year like we say we're living in the year two thousand and ten and that's a christian thing that's the birth of christ and it was a major event that's the one is accepted by a lot other people use other calendars and so so i think in the fullness of time i think the year nine hundred and seventy in the fullness of time is going to be seen as a kind of year one and why when there was a transform ation occurring in terms of the collective capability of the unique capability of our species ok thinking almost in terms of evolutionary theory that concept of punctuated equilibria that you come to a point of quantitative change and there's a and this sort of mentality of existential pleasures do whatever makes you feel good they tried to tried to put it down as sex drugs and rock and roll and i was a lot of that and i think and i think and i think in a way that because it became about sex drugs and rock n roll  no wait a minute don't let that go it was not there were huge other things to go yes when we know that that have been overlooked like for instance the context in which the extended consciousness of the union of the homosapien to extend it consciousness into the environment through tools and technology showing yes it was coming to a point where even the power structure certainly abused this sort of free for all moral concepts that were backing this movement of challenging the establishment became more about expressing yourself any way you wanted so became about anti technology and there was a strand of it and today i think it's become you're talking about islam being multifaceted so it was a counterculture but there is only subjective truth so that human beings should do what they want now that runs coincided to the theory of capitalism that man should seek and compete for unlimited resources for a limited  unlimited desires and it doesn't provide a pathway for people to be conscious about how their behavior has an external effect on the behave on the on the behavior and the life and the well being of those outside a transaction between x and  you're trying to suggest is that the movement in some ways was adulterated a certain faction of the movement there were then it was written into the history books as this adulterated faction of the movie was in fact the movement and all of the political all of the and all of the movements that for example malcolm x we don't understand the true message that malcolm x brought to the society today nor do we understand the true message that martin luther king brought we celebrate martin luther king's was functioning in the international arena and he saw this movement he finally came here ial and so yeah he finally came out against the vietnam war and lyingly it took a long time and malcolm was forever critical of him and you know out malcolm in his ear in criticizing him we wouldn't have this merger of ideologies that produced a real potential movement but for me to look at the african americans today and their well being in this society and to suggest that they in some way shape or have equality with the counterparts that exist in society is for me to be a  complete blindly yet commanded and this is just not the case but we celebrate it and and we celebrated as though this was an era of change but the change occurred but i think that the paradigm did indeed shift but it became one of consumerism and it became grounded in a moral theory of just do whatever makes you happy and everything will work out and i'm not so sure that that is not your freedom is fine so that you're not so sure that two thousand years from now things will be factored things going on and were being felt artists felt oh i agree but we don't have that same vibration in two thousand and ten so there is no continuation and the generation that had the ability to change and stop the drift towards or increasing authoritarian increasing growth of power in the corporate machine the increasing growth of power in the military industrial complex it was not successful but it did start a set forth an example that the whole world learned by for example if someone was to tell you today mobilization and efforts of movement towards justice as with means by which they could effect change in their own societies then they then they want to be telling you the truth and a lot of people would like to suggest that it's not exist over here and the west exists over here i don't think geopolitical things that are under you know i'm a nation we all politic and all of that and thinking about things and economic terms you want to get economic but there are cultural differences between the people that are very important because of civilizations is interesting but but the human being the unique thing i was thinking about of the other day i'm going through a program in a couple of days with the georgia standard georgian and he said that all the resources should be collectively owned by everybody that was his theme back in the turn of the th century and people born into out of evolution we came up artistic as was our ancestor apparently and two hundred thousand years of homo sapiens appeared and all the resources were here to the cavemen and what is changed has been the ability of our to extend our capability into the environment through tools clubs are good he either in the head or something and then technology that's was changed our kinds of consequences in terms of economics and certain consequences in terms of politics and other things that you're talking showing large and those things there was something major that was going on as we reached that point in  proposition to you do you think it's possible if you look through all of human history that through the extension of technology a higher definition of terms i mean we are in a debating society is there any point at all in never trying to get down to defining something when we talk about i have and i have not in terms of the haves and have nots in the world well i think because you have all kinds of you know you're not a have unless you have a di reasonable term is it possible to have some reasonable explanation of or explication of the whole what it is to be a have as opposed to have not and if it were are there more haves to reality the reality is all and we're going to reach the point where in terms of our capability to have and have not you have to get a definition of terms how do you deal with all the conundrum you know the changes or difference of opinions there are how you define it be the point yes also most of the research systems research that takes because the leading edge of technology has been largely at the behest of the leading come come from countries or empires of the world that wondrous or at their own legitimacy and they would give support st and foremost to the weapons makers and the ones who could give them military advantage over others so they could steal their grain and more to get a better do and that was like geo political reality and all of was and that was a bit operative and those weapons systems collectively most of the things if you asked a serious question is it possible that the weapon systems that exists the potential  and then there was a car it would have to be something it would unleash the weapons of the united states of america yes ok if they did would it mean the end of the entire home species there are studies that say that is the case  and capability i agree with that qualitative change in potential and capability but i would argue where you suggested that there was just now this awakening awareness and we've known from using things like evolutionary science said that he suggested that there was going to be a quantitative rise in the haves and have nots to the point where we have maybe maybe an equitable distribution the intentional to have an effect that is not quite what i was saying i was saying it was it was quite different from that time in two hundred thousand years of liber of human evolution yes couldn't happen any time earlier from jesus or mohammad or anybody we didn't have the technological it was very time under the i see something empire from no eastern china all the way into northern africa where there was anybody documented by history that had a want to a need for any economic scarcity yet known of course because scarcity it wasn't a police i'm not talking only history that has been largely written out of western academic accounts of things like where capitalism came from the reality of the matter is that the spreading of islam from saudi arabia what we call today saudi arabia actually mecca and medina in the arabian peninsula should call western civilization in fact not judeo christian civilization but you dale christian is the nomic civilization why because all of the founding principles associated with capitalism and the growth of individual liberties in the growth of these mentalit or school monetarist system is a system that is associated with paper money that is controlled by a government but the way that it functions is not in that what happens is you have a private central bank and this is coming out of you can go all the way back to  n if you want to look for the original roots of this mentality of what we term the fractional reserve model of issuance of currency into a system they have a private centralized bank and this private central bank is responsible for the issuance of the money into the society and it does so by giving direct access to credit and priority access to credit to the conventional banks that actually if you really look at institutions like the federal reserve in the united states of america the conventional banks that it loans money to are either the associates or they a actual banks that control and share in the control over the federal reserve there's are all in a leadership class and they have the ability to issue more paper than anything it's not backed or anything it's just backed in trust and in order to create this sort of monitoring system what they need to do is build upon the concept of empire and if you can go all the way back to the point where the islamic period went into decline so we have had a saying of the prophet mohammed along and the angel gabriel comes to the pro mohammed to teach the people in man form and he asked the prophet mohammed at the end about the end signs for the day of judgment the end of the world as all monotheistic traditions would have it that there is this alternate day of judgment we will be insisting that the barefoot bedouin arabs will compete with one another in the building of tall buildings one and number two that the woman will give birth to her master now there's many ways to interpret this in the end of times that we see in the reality we see today and so we can look at dubai in the construction of the world's tallest building for example you can make an analogy that this might be a suggestion and a fulfillment of what was said one thousand four hundred plus years ago by the prophet but the one i'm interested in is this concept of the mother giving birth to the slave master and i'm looking in reality when i study economic history and i know all three of capitals and begins with wealth of nations and seven hundred and seventy six what i would i'm telling you that portugal and the venetian and the dutch and the british were all heavily influenced as imperialist models were held heavily influenced by the contact that they have the beginning of this concept of this private central bank and it developed itself into the bank of england and it took off really legitimately world almost control the whole world is a parasite with the foundation of the british empire now this is a monetary system meaning they want to control the currency and they want to control the world's dominant currency and so they can control the access to credit before we leave way into binary economics we have two forms of production of wealth i'd like to labor and capital but when we look at the imperialist system what we have is we have created a means by which to turn profit this was known in the islamic and in the islamic world all the way back to the prophet mohammed but the problem is when the arabs went and they sought to reach out and to discover africa they didn't talk in terms of we're going to exploit them put them in slavery and take all their natural resources back to the motherland what they spoke of was we're going to develop and the st and primary important intention of the spread of islam into africa was to make the people muslim the same thing with when the muslims conquered in persia with when the muslims conquer the system was not built on this ideology of we're going to go there for the sake of the pleasures and the wealth and the gold in the silver this started this rampant idea of parasitic economic imperialism started with the european  think people are jacked to religion in the west right and should be know not only religions every single institution and everything is transferred notions of human you're all reading of history if you're in one situation where you had two hundred thousand years of scarcity in that cave in the collective capability we don't agree it is different and it was not different and till the year nine hundred and seventy dollars in terms of the collective technological capability with all the understanding that went with it and the science that came we couldn't have done it the time of jesus we couldn't have done it at the time we couldn't blow up the world at the time of mom and there was a different world yes yes state oh i agree with jess we agree with this so we're coming to a time a qualitative transf we're now at the point where we have the capability of joining entropy yes along it all up short and we've got the capability to do it we're great as recently as the nd world war we're trying somewhat as we were trying during the cold war good to kill each other sure we really weren't putting it change in the view of the universe that messed up people sense of identity so we've got our sense of identity all wrapped up in these outdated institutions we've been aired out of gestation and that we have a system that is not relevant to what the future requires because a future thing i don't mean projected but they didn't have the capability they didn't have the capability to know i agree with it and we didn't have the capability end of the structure side so what among other things that we knew at that that's a promise and the premise it can be to be laughed at sure is if that's the case that's one premise the other is how are you going to set up an economic system mr cain's for whatever it's worth yet set up the old monetary system that we live with now everything and he said in one thousand nine hundred and thirty in a letter to his branch and this goes to practical ok he said to a letter to his grandson you're going to be confronted something in their maturity that's about now in terms of economics and development we had a great depression in the united states and so for world is it you're going to be confronted with something i creation and where we get down the ladder ninety percent of the people in all of the world ninety five percent of the people and some of the world you have the only way you're going to have to have income yes illegitimately to buy a little stem ok and it's not and how are we going to distribute it in cursed we have to fundamentally how are we going to get the income to people by the way things are being produced capital instruments are producing to well and sure well how are we going to distribute buying power to the unfolding of the destruction of an empire in a paradigm shift as mark st by decline and then an awareness that this decline is real and then people actually act in survival instinct mode to wake up consciously and to advocate for economics have already existed in the economic intention of the creator for the last preserved form of true economic system the intention of the creator revealed to the prophet muhammad area economics is based upon the premise that human beings have the potential to produce income from two sources one is labor and the other is capital thank you and so the problem is is that as you said all of these whether it's all the way on the left or all the way on the right all of the economic theory concentrates on labor and doesn't look whatsoever at the distribution of capital which takes away from the majority of man no the capital is all concentrated capital is concentrated because another look at the role of capital and the means by which you can distribute capital so that every human being can enjoy to potential sources of income labor and capital ok so those sort of institutions for example the employment share shar is much better than going in and having somebody that's not affiliated with the company but is speculating outside of the company and working on wall street for a major mutual fund give the resources or the major investment bank or a major commercial bank give the resources by which these huge multinational conglomerates income because you've got in economics very base you have to have supply we have an incredible supply of capability that we have reached a point where we could make this planet thing for every body i agree nobody has to be hung it was not the case in the structure by which we can organize mankind under so that we can work toward achieving that objective so you have to have a way you have to have supply that's the capability shorter's and you have to have the demand and they mean it's really reinforces for their if will of the world to clear the market of what can be produced by technological instruments because the technological instruments are going to displace them and their labor contribution one to production which has been the way in which everybody seems to have accepted  see the republicans that are going to influence obama to make a pro austerity speech tomorrow cooking about we won't run up the deficit more than this x amount of dollars and we won't give any more aid because we just spent trillions of dollars bailing out the bankers and now the structures that we would like to see exist but what i'm saying is binary economics has arrived at this rationally a conclusion that this is the case and they've arrived at certain specific institutional means by which is going to hurt from want to national bank which in turn would have the authority to issue money but would not have to issue money with interest to a private central bank which then would be able to issue money to the conventional banks which could loan out ten dollars for every one dollar that they're issued from the private private central bank so we have this system and the problem the cancer in the system is the interest and the problem that binary economics sold is that it agrees that there should be national banking because it's a government is a tool for protecting the general welfare of a society there is a but government can can can print its money and it can back its money or it can do many different things but one thing that it can do is it can issue money to who it chooses and the proper channel to issue money and thereby capital to is the people  us to engage in economic activity that makes us behave like brothers if you will lose i lose all right and that form has the potential for the development that forms the potential for development now if we both make money then you can reap rewards equivalent to one of the contemporary monetarist or capitalist system does and there's many specifics we need to get out there is a small business but my point is also that at the end of the day mankind until it realizes that it has been put here on earth by a greater fo greater than itself and it starts to organize itself under the derived behavior that comes about from a consciousness that one is going to die and that one when they do die will be resurrected and brought to account for what they do while they're here then there's no chance that people start behaving like monkeys under the capitalist paradigm that it promotes and this concept that we are competing with one another can be replaced by a concept of brotherhood only under the islamic paradigm ok and they're all very glad that that's the point i did  it's usury usury is prescribed by islamic principles and that could be informing the modern condition modern geo political reality no i know yeah yeah but we've gotten around it