i'm very happy to have here he is well you'll find out who he is dorian how are you today very fine thank you so much for having me join are you originally from new jersey i am originally from new jersey as bird park new jersey  the band director in asbury park was frank bryan and he used to come to the elementary schools and teach us how to play the instruments and i learned the instruments very quickly and then as i moved into the high school started a jazz all those guys and we were very fortunate bag in fifty three i got an opportunity to play at the apollo in new york and so as a youngster it was just exciting for us with the audience is like re s known well i did you know once i got out of high school and went to north carolina central university in durham and i started the first jazz band there at the college and we used to play all over the place go into the salvation army and perform with them but that was a start and i just you know it was just something that i wanted to do as a five year old  just got to me how did you convince him it was a college to start a band well there were a lot of good young singers in at that time jazz was not the greatest thing we all had to play classical music at that time but that they played all over the place and i used to play with them and we used to play in winston salem an old club every friday night and it was interesting and so i generally played like three or four nights a former students the one of coleman another trumpet player who was in the high school with me i taught him but just played a lot in this area we played in newark at the  been like a jazz scene in princeton you know we played used to play up and down this corner here a lot of private parties so pound jenkins was the leader at that time and so lot of times in trenton area you know around the area there and also in philly so we need around quite a bit i've been asking you know if there's ever been like any jazz clubs or jazz scene in princeton so far can't find anybody there's nothing other than you know just private parties of that sort so i don't remember a particular club that was happening here in this instance so what kind of people would have the private parties like s playing in that so how did you get the job so while it was strictly contact a concert palmer was a music teacher in trenton so you know there were a lot of people in the area ok and so that's how we got a lot of jobs i play but another group prior to that would play with prominences let's hollander and his wife and we travel all over to for about eleven years and we called ourselves and we three trio tremendous westside jazz scene there they had bill big bills club there they had the donald's they had the aka allowance to door they had  sixty's so i came back in ninety six to sixty one and couldn't find a job and there was interviewed several high schools in the area and you know the job was just filled because they thought my name was  was difficult and when they say perry i think so and i was white but they found out differently so i would come in for the interview and they said oh we just filled the job thank you very much and you know please apply later so then jersey and then that led to a line at highland and i was there for a day and a half and then i moved to eton town which i stayed there for six years and it started programs and had a nice little middle school dance band and so proceeded in that particular town doing a lot of private lessons and things of this sort and i was still playing with this we three group at that time and moved on from there and then as barry parked my bad old band director decided to to depart from asbury and the superintendent asked me to come back as we're part and i was there for twenty three years if you listen to you have a real entrepreneurial culture spirit because i keep hearing you say you started this you started that and that's great let's talk about the business of being a musician because i know a lot of work in so could you just talk about that for people who have a comment on rainier because well i'm the president of the local three three ninety nine and american federation of musicians and there's a lot of opportunities for musicians but they have to be outwards and they have to be really entrepreneurs in the field of music they need to understand contracts they need to understand how  themselves and present themselves in a positive manner and also have to understand that you're going to get certain cities with certain venues and others you're not and sometimes you you'll get a little bit more but the business innovate a lot of them do not understand that you know there is a lot of leg work that has to be done behind the scenes they have to write contracts and they have to be spelled out so that you're not hurting yourselves and you have to have the protection you have to have insurance and all of that so it's it's it up opportunity for young people hopefully to get into the union and understand what they offer them what does it take to get into the union and well it takes a fee to get into the union and years ago they used to have to audition in order to get into the the union but now you can be recommended  by one of the musicians in the union to get into the union so there's a small fee for the air for them and then there's a local free and then there's a regular yearly fee for the musicians but it's a very small and job opportunities come by knowing in contacting and mingling with the other musicians and that's how things happen this one tells the other and they hear you play and they get excited forty's and we've been watching all of the alps parades and used to be in asbury all up and down spring with avenue and washington then we went to richmond one year so you know it was a lot of opportunities for kids at that  but you really have to as a youngster to really get a cage yourself if you're going to make some inroads in the field of music have to practice daily you have to really be dedicated to that particular instrument and learn it well and learn to read learn to actually hear the music and write compose and arrange all of those things take time i'm glad you brought that up because i was going to talk about musicianship because  you know prince recently passed and everybody loves prince but people didn't realize how many insurance he played how much time he dedicated to the music and a lot of people are under the impression that you don't have to do all that now you have to do is push buttons on  computer and you have this great career you last forever could you talk about what that's not the way if it's going to happen you really have to have a lot of talent and you you have to study you have to learn the tricks of the trade so yes it's such as you know you have to learn how to understand the chord changes you have to learn the writing skills of the masters who have been up in the field michael jackson and prince and all of the others who have done tremendous things but you just can't get rich overnight it takes time for people to understand your music enjoy your music and you want to play the music that the people that you're for the people and the last time is true because when i was in high school i learned how to play flute and that's why i was laughing so my father's a jazz musician so i thought i had a rod i wasn't listening to herbie mann all the time folk so we said we had i couldn't believe what i was hearing and then you know that's when i really don't i mean like i liked it but i wasn't going to dedicate my life to it because you can even just tell from the sound and to this day when i hear you the laws are just melt because the sound is incredible it's beautiful self so what advice would you give people because another thing the other side of it we live in is grey techno society now where people don't think it's important to do a whole lot of things like you're saying they should study the masters you know a lot of people don't think that's from different people but you must listen to them so you can get an idea of what to do and how to do it so it's it's a learning process you really don't start playing well to put in about twenty or thirty years and then all of a sudden it begins to blossom become your own person your own sound and your own technique and things of that you have to learn from the masters and once you do say go go get your degree and do something else because they're afraid for the you know the children will starve so how can what can be done to teach like not want to get and understand not only how you have to study instruments but what you are saying about learning a business is any place that teaches that you know where can people go so they can understand they need to learn the business and they can actually learn it well i think you know basically as a youngster goes and so when they want to go into music as an elementary youngster they play the flute of phones they learn how to do those first they learn to read the music they begin to understand the nuances of music how the process and going about learning to read and then going into the joining the band in the schools getting that training that's free training  those youngsters who are going to really dedicate themselves will do that through private lessons private lessons of the thing that really elevates the youngsters so they need to do that if you're going to start as a musician you need to start early and i'm talking about early three four years old listening playing trying getting your coordination dexterity and your hands in the arm which are and all of that working for you and as you're bill through the program and sticking with the programs in the schools and supporting the the marching bands and the concert bands and the jazz bands and the a and then you can go to the to the next level which would be the college then then you must have a private teacher that will mentor you and bring you out to your true potential what about the older people and with that unfortunately we run out of time what are the i mean older people what about mature musicians and already work already playing a have somewhat of a style they have no clue as to the business and they just suffering because they don't have work listen to the new music today and select and choose the things that they really like in the joy and then they'll be able to join in with the with scene of the day but they need to to do that the opportunity for for the play they have to sort out different venues so that they can do their door and thank you so much for being on this show as you have a whole nother side of you we haven't even explored so when you tell him into our next show you we're going to have dorian back to part two and we're going to talk about how jazz and how music can be used to rebuild communities so  ah