i'm going to call this meeting to order may 30th at five o'clock just like board meeting two and we're a first order of businesses to discuss storm damage nate i want to start with nate and go around the room here and all put our two cents in how's that give me your two cents on where you're at what you're thinking which way you're going to proceed just overall picture right now nate went around the fema yesterday needs to be taken back the compactors get your numbers for them and the direction you go meeting with chris redenall on tuesday with all the river and rough issues put on the ceilings for right now street in there can you go over north underhill road north underhill road lower structure of the head wall the other day is that's the one thing that's outstanding as it being back to correct correct and then we got quite a crater on the north end a lot of utilities also a lot of utilities also yup so what direction you've been heading in the last few days since you know since sunday i know you got you just fill them back filling holes and using the stuff from the pit and doing that what are you doing okay so sunday is kind of the last time you really went at it filling holes okay and you been hauling in stone from anywhere like that how much do you expect road and you got beige roads got quite a chunk out of it lots on poker hill down drone will have to be revealing all the way up through bill cook parks county jonah hill bridge noel rapper road we got the north end of our tunnel hover road now just on a triage thing i was walking back north under hill road it's going to be is our big problem right now correct can we fill in that hole on that structure is that structure stable enough to put a temporary road there so we could fill it in we could do a quick tar patch job and we could no tar patch we'd have to we need a structural engineer in the short term correct correct i don't know if we need a motion but i agree we need a structural engineer and we should hire one of the big guys either way we look at for a filling yes i agree a hundred percent do you have any names did you call around today at all would you like me to do it okay is that the last question i mean is that something that would be in the category b so it's just all part of the emergency or is it something that would be in the define category b good question from my understanding it's for emergency purposes right so would you consider this an emergency purpose right yeah so everything after that emergency services and everything going forward then would have to be part of the individual roads fema estimated cost you per state for their approval right does anyone have an idea what the hourly rate for a structural engineer is just for a bunch of purposes no and i imagined for something like that it'd probably be if you're gonna put it in a fema project you they must have they have seem to have lists for everything so they might have a list of what they would accept but i don't think we can take more we just need someone to look at it and say yeah it's passable yeah it's not passable you know let's just table that one for a second i mean it's something we definitely have to deal with but like nate says people who get out both ways we're not holding anybody up so let's that's definitely a factor for sure mona why do you take a whack at it for a little bit oh well i i guess i'm always coming from the financial part of it you know and so you know with this category b part of it which is all the emergency stuff which is just one fema project if we'd get the fema approval you know i don't know what that is yet cause i haven't seen any of the invoices so did you like did you like add those up or anything or do you know where the invoices are all the stuff that happened previously so far so i don't know i guess that might be like fifty or sixty thousand maybe or whatever like you said we don't have all the invoices but we have forty four thousand in our contingency rainy day reserve fund that we can just that's gonna take care of i think of a huge part of that dwayne has been working on gathering all those pictures and you know we went over with them all the how the project works and stuff to get everything set up for fema he interviewed and worked with the guys today with nate's help on finding out where they were and what they did so we can have some good documentation of what happened during those four days and stuff we go through the stuff contractor and time out pretty much around the law for the contractor wherever those holes are okay so then dwayne's on all that dwayne's on that and he's working with sherry and nate and i are kind of teaming up on it and then hopefully all those invoices will come in hopefully soon and nate of course will approve and make sure that we don't get charged for maybe a private road and not a public road or whatever and then we just kind of gather information the way we did last time and i have talked to our banker and they said shelley clinton from merchant said that you know it's good we could do this next select board meeting it's good just to get the paperwork set up for a line of credit choose a number either at we're already approved is to have our financials from the end of june just choose a number that will get us through the emergency part of it you don't have to pick the two million number just say you know a couple hundred thousand whatever and then as things happen you've already got it established to draw so it's set up and ready to go and then as things for a month if you get to fema or if you don't and you get more good estimates of what it's going to cost then we can always increase the amount what's the line of credit that's available now to authorize and right well we'll have to set it out but i had told her we were looking at a couple of million and she didn't seem too bad and i but but at the end we can do it for a year because you have traveled approver for longterm but you can do this this line of credit for a year if you're still working on it and you still haven't finished it off you can renew for another year at some point you can either convert it to a longterm note that you're gonna pay off or you can talk to the bond bank people too and they said we could also go to the voters see if they want to do a bond if it's too much convert it to a bond so i think i think my and then the sheet that i laid out there kind of a thing to with the cash i took our current cash of eight hundred and eighty thousand and you know minus what it's gonna take us to get to the end of the year minus what it's gonna take us to get to the august fifteen the next tax date and so you have like about four hundred thousand so i think between the two of your fine between that could mean the loan from the bank and this i think you're fine you know it's you don't want to take on debt as much as possible but it's there if you need it you know and the lower part of that the fund balances you know we have with gasby we have to have a fund balance policy and we're saying we have to keep fifteen in there if we did that we couldn't spend very much money but the select board can in emergency reduce that that we say we're keeping so so i think that you know the cash is there either from us or from our partners at the bank and so you wouldn't have to worry about that the main thing is just making sure we have you know like nate said getting the information back from fema making sure that everything is processed accurately so that we get our money with paperwork and yeah so and yeah i guess that's about all i have to say just so everybody can feel somewhat reassured that that you're not going to be not being able to do this stuff i did have them on this i guess this was from brad of the people who were out there and i checked there's maybe four people i don't know and getting the contact information from them but everybody else is either in our vendor file and get paid immediately or two people have some paperwork they got to get back to me but they're you know it's gonna be fine so i don't think anybody is gonna be held up not getting paid unless there's somebody that's not on the list that we don't know about so we'll take care of everybody that helped us and the bank will take care of us and all that so that's about it oh fema with a clash and papers structured normally count all any or all material whatever it takes your basic material in any class for that no material no nothing if the structure was gone totally in any of the projects they would pay for it but majority of the structure stayed everything else like on pedro that steam mower that was the only thing left probably a gap there two hundred and four was still there and now they're the ones that keep reoccurring they stated we have documentation from prior years was rejoined they said if we can get that information and they can show that color or make a bridge so it stops reoccurring and we have a lot of phone calls you know what i mean all we did with bella road over what was there to get people out or if people in plastic and so we pull them plastics you're gonna damage so the town was liable for buying new collars if the collar's gone they would pay for it but if it's preexisting in there they won't give me any money mean that they'll pay you to replace the similar one where they couple together we take it apart and it breaks apart and we dragged that one back in the collar's gone yeah so that one was just a temporary effect so you're going to have to get a grade of color in the area the same way the collar has gone we just put a quick cratchet strap on it hold it back in the hole and popped it to it what do you need from us in short term can we go around the room emergency management asked me to try to collect some more information on private individual damages which i got off to them today and the purpose of that it's very unlikely that there'll be any kind of federal funding on a personal level but it also helps assist in the picture of the public part too as far as damages that happened here so they were they asked me to get as much information as i could on that so i got a list of places that had damage i didn't get ahold of everybody as to exactly what the damages were and i've got just some rough estimates here in there not on everything but they were happy just to get the list so keep in touch with them on that i wanted to just kind of check with nate here too on updating the roads hotline right now i just have it sounds like it's going to remain that way that north underhill station road is still remaining close to through traffic and still drive with extreme caution the question is on the private roads like beaver brook and kelly road those private roads fire department can't but again from fema's estimate there's about one hundred and fifty thousand damage on killer from the front of the sector from the tail and beaver brook i have not been over there i heard that fire department today they said that they wouldn't put up big truck up there no yeah they contacted and they said that they couldn't get in there did anybody establish that when something happens to private property or private road or a private driveway whose responsibility it is in the emergency situation to get it fixed the one we heard on friday we were to get everybody out whether it was on private property or not we did assist what we could reach it off the down road some of these houses you know but then on saturday she did not touch in front of the door right away who is that information from the girl rachel i think she lost our schedule by hiring up there on saturday okay the theme of language restoration of access it says in cases where homes are inaccessible as a result of the damage work to establish emergency access maybe eligible under the pa public act if an eligible applicant has legal authority to perform the work and provide that the emergency access economically eliminates the need for temporary housing bottom line is the town's cost of reestablishing emergency access to residents should be pa eligible and it says it's part of the category b of the pa public assistance but only if they can't get there well that's why we need that letter from the fire department saying they can't get to the deep holes and then oh our pa not ia so that means oh we have to wait for fema to give us the go ahead on the b stuff right this would be part of b they say category b of public assistance that's kind of like you know the last time just as an example there was someone who was stranded on the other side of big gold because they washed out you know brad went out and rented like a flatbed they kind of somehow or another person over you know and we got to get reimbursed under category b with that although that was their private property it was you know kind of like rescuing them so it's almost kind of like that right there's an emergency and you can't get in or out to their property you can do it and include it in this emergency category bpa sounds like it but you know but i don't know if we have anybody like that there's people that can't get to their places they can get there by car you just can't get service people in there same thing is there any way to from that information that you have there with someone that just to take it to the next level because that's definitely some feedback we're getting in there right we really need to nail that down and if that's true we're supposed to help these people in category d right now we need to get on that and finish that part of where we're at but we need a confirmation from the system we would like them to come out and take another look at those roads i mean you have to know you know if we are responsible we should be out there working on it it's a slippery slope they couldn't get in or out there much because traffic i want to do what you know fema tells us to do that's what we're going to have to do well on friday they know we had to help people because otherwise but that was dlt that's not fema either so we're talking about two different groups here and two different one's gotta have authority over the other you got to find out who the higher up is over there we can do that tomorrow do you guys all feel like there's a good game plan and good leadership and flow of information here i mean it is dwayne you know he we've really just started you know but i think you know for me i understand there was this wonderful map that fema rachel or whatever it would be really nice to have a map of the roads even if you labeled them carrie knows all the roads and she's great with maps too if you'd be labeled them like this is a and then we could cause when he just talks about this stuff we might not really getting it into the bucket we need to get it into so if we could just kind of like label them and maybe even give them our own project numbers initially so that as we start to do stuff we don't know where it is we think she took it back with her but maybe carrie you know and then when nate talks about something or whatever for me i would feel more like so it seems like we're in somewhat of a pause mode here waiting on fema information before and you guys go ahead and take that next step on fixing things is that what i'm assuming here momentarily put in there friday was put in character we drew it out of here a couple of years ago when packing stuff but the stuff we used on sunday was a little more trashy so that's going to be taken back out again we get some good veins but then monday sunday there were running you know i didn't see any buckets of you know trash and stuff you know that's not back as well temporary so this is where's dwayne fit on this on what he's doing in this whole thing for us i mean is he just doing odds and ends do you have him in charge of paperwork with what would we have in mind equipment hours who went where how running around such and such roll so you should have a file on every single role as it comes in records and then pass it on every single day do something on a monday come thursday you're going to forget what you did on monday where you went if you were over there for two hours over here for an hour maybe we should put a notebook in a truck would that be i think and you know what i was talking to he's taking he's sitting at the computer downstairs that's free and so he i gave him all this all the fema files from the last year how they were structured with the pictures and the spreadsheet and the copies of the invoices and i showed him the paper files and everything he's got a great handle on it he has some great ideas he's you know vast and cause when the guys thought at the time may only put seven hours flood i've asked him to work with them to get those details of where they work so he's keeping track of that you know it was you know if you get an invoice from jim madell and it's been on he's worked on seven projects you know it's just scan it into every single project and he's just you know he's got some great ideas actually for road maintenance going forward and then it's going to use last year's files too to see if this is second occurrence third occurrence on some of those things so we can get maybe better replacement in that and i guess my only concern is you know i don't want to keep him from something else that nate and i want to coordinate cause i don't want him to think that i'm hogging him completely and i'm not really doing it he is but you know just that i don't know how many hours he's allowed to spend it on it probably but i think the one thing we're missing is i think we should only have we should have like a fema contact that it seems to be sometimes it's going to you and sometimes it's going to you and stuff and maybe somehow or another that really haven't gotten anything we haven't gotten anything so it's almost just with you and go back anyway because there were lots of emails last year so i don't you know so i brought up about structure i'd just love to see you guys when you guys are all working well on the ground you're doing your thing you're doing there but if there's a lead person in the office here that talking to that fema person or again you know your visits you know your business they don't need to manage you guys but ahead of the snake and maybe that is dwayne i don't see why it's not yeah the only thing is to you know the email you know cause a lot of times they send a lot of stuff by email so but we can set them up with an email and then do we have an extra box yeah so we can set them up with an email and he just sits down there and stuff and then he'll know when it has to go to the back way yeah so let's have dwayne at the head of that beast sounds good no i'm just wondering what he needs in the short term between now and then our next meeting you have a meeting next week if you need any what resources do you need private contractor and try to work on it and we'll start her on keep with ramona because we want to stay within the budget we don't want to tilt keep on money or if we get connects from fema break right now is what you're saying i'm not saying that you can't spend money we're saying that you can serve your proudly for the weekend your family around sixty we pretty much figured that now that but i hear what you're saying i mean i do i agree with everything you hear your brakes are on until we get more word from fema and learn about what direction we're going here so that makes sense but why not get estimates those don't hurt us who usually makes those calls in getting estimates out of this group a lot of people do it you can get different ones do we need three estimates for everything we looked at here you know we have the first thing policy but in emergencies we don't really look at it you don't have to we're past the emergency here so we purchasing policy yes but you don't have to go to a form of bidding process if it's going to if theses particular project's going to be under fifteen thousand then you're supposed to get estimates from other people they can be informal it doesn't have to be an rfp but you should try to get two or three estimates if you don't have those that many suppliers in your local areas it's okay get one with this whole fifteen under fifteen thousand you don't you should try and get two or three if you don't have two or three people if you you have like a gravel you know there's like two places you call but you always go to one place but i mean it's kind of like you already do that nate i think you already do that in all this stuff you do you call around you know reach out where everybody pretty comparable it's just whoever again you know we're in the steaming you're going to get someone to go along with exactly exactly right which means there's only that means there's only one person who can do it you can't find a competitor to get another bedroom because he had a guy who can't long pole and i was like three tremors who doesn't have the tallest thing so you can do that it'd just be good to continually well yeah when you get the estimates and those estimates can also flow through to like the files that dwayne's doing because we want wherever you can get two or three estimates when it makes sense it's a job that there's three guys to go to i understand if it's no one else can do it then that's how it falls but whenever you can how does i guess how does this interfere with i suppose greatly your normal step that you were going to be doing this spring in size that you know like all those problems you did did you did any of those culverts that were just replaced get washed you know you're a couple of weeks out it'd probably be one hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred thousand dollars and then the dirt that goes over the top of it or the stone we need the stone okay okay so all those culverts are parts of the road that femas looked at so they're going to be part of the next project i just have to look in my responsibilities for her to see stuff yeah but mostly my stuff has to due with structural manage not structure in terms of necessarily board structures but houses and those things got anything to add to this being who you are and what you do what i missed the whole thing just say my hats off to you guys for the work you did when i got home that day by my driveway that was according to the pictures we got from people so you guys did a great job if there was some structure there what would it look like in your book if it was a new structure yeah it could be a large pipe or it could be a concrete box could be a bridge i've seen that would get over top twice now about ten years before it happened and then two thousand and thirteen no is that twenty years yeah twenty years sorry where are you going to get that information first found flooded every couple minutes and five minutes might just be in invoices and you don't have like what about you know like the computer program that says when callers were changed up it more it doesn't say the year because otherwise we just have the last few months so you wouldn't have a record of changing the caller caller have a statement okay gotcha how long you think the requirements for documentation is it jerry's testimony from one thousand nine hundred and eighty two that you remember something or is it something more than that i don't know i mean i wonder what they had no documentation but it was all the neighbors stepping forward to say it's just gone out such and such a year and they listed it and got bumped out by verbal stuff from the neighbors i just wonder if research on dwayne's part or someone's department could make enough of what you were working on where would you start your research at that's my question you have a lot of the historical knowledge yourself you almost know all the different ones have been handed over the last eleven years so and you talk to the people like you when you talk to the neighbors and people have been around a while and you get them to put it in writing is what i think would help i remember i don't know the year and i could look it up because the town got an easement from us to do work at the end of that culver on that property so that would be a date when that present culver was installed i won't say the wrong date but i can only remember two times when the road washed out once was about ten years ago i think yeah that sounds right if no one has anything to add we're going to just take a quick recess till six till greg gets here to continue with our whole business so if there's nothing else to be said this storm debriefing on let's just take a twenty minute break here go ahead i just wanted to clarify what i thought i had heard it sounds like we conceivably you would have some coverage under this plan b that's what we're trying to figure out so we don't know how to proceed we need to be very careful that if you know if we don't start working on people's private roads and start some awful chain of events all over town fixing up private roads if we're not supposed to so we really need word from fema whoever up top saying this is how it's supposed to be done and we don't have that word yet there's no conversation with you it's probably unclear when you might even get that clarity and we're talking just a couple of days maybe yeah i would assume i'm only assuming all we know is they been around did a tour yesterday and then they went off to their office and we haven't seen or heard from since then so keep all your invoices take a million pictures get more quotes to get the road back to one hundred all that documentation will matter so we're thinking we should do nothing until we hear back from you at this point but you should probably try to get a quote for the whole road just a quote and to get it back to where it was now was that ever b seventy one standard do you know what that is you probably don't know what's that b seventy one is rad we're looking at b seventy six b seventy six was that ever b seventy six seventy six standard i believe so iverson built it to the town standards because he thought the town was going to take it over what year was that road built seventy eight ish yeah seventy eight so we understand we understand it's not the wait i'm trying to get the answer as quick as we can and can you make sure you done has got both your contact information i think so as soon as we get word we'll let you know anything else well i don't know if this is the right kind but one comment on if this happened again it seems like for people on both public and private roads somebody from the town or the fire department i don't know whose job is emergency services would physically go up each row even if they had to walk it and maybe contact people in each home and tell them that they should evacuate or if they're it wasn't possible to evacuate anymore and they should put on their back what they needed so people were informed because most of this happened during the night and we had no idea what was going on by the time we woke up our road was gone but they didn't do it on my road there's only thirty members yeah that's fine your point being is you wish that there was more kind of emergency outreach more heads up to someone like you in the middle of the night yeah i don't honestly don't know how to accomplish that but i hear what you're saying that's a good idea but i don't know how we'd accomplish that i'm sorry compare yeah it's interesting point all right anything else okay let's just take a quick recess for twenty minutes here we'll reconvene at six okay go ahead okay we're going to call this thursday may 30th select board meeting the order at six hundred pm this is a continuation of last thursday's meeting south was not available to be here last thursday for the entire meeting so we're going to take up this business here and first on the agenda is public comment is anyone here public comment okay we're gonna move right along then to discussing and enforcing court order thirteen one eleven so i just like to kind of go over what this is all about we have a superior court judgment order against robert blaze for a nonpermitted structure he is he has been ordered to reimburse the town the sum of four thousand and eighty and fifty four cents that reimbursement includes attorney's fees zoning administrator time along with some other things so he had until may 1st to remove the structure so he has not complied the town has the right to go in and remove the structure and if we remove the structure we need a new court order to recover the demo cost so we would need to go back to court again to recover our costs these this order and this violation do run with the property so the next order this property sold at tax sale last year do we know for the sum of how much it's about that though it is okay so we have tax sale and basically that means that mr blaze needs to come up with the twenty five thousand plus twelve interest in order to get his land back otherwise as of january 24th two thousand and fourteen the property will be the person who bid on it tax sale which i believe is his lamelle or lamelle lumber so i'd like to know was this judgment order recorded in the land records that's getting us a copy to recording land records and at such time as we receive it it will be okay i want to keep on that i want to make sure this if it is if it hasn't already been recorded yeah i want to make sure it's recorded and then did mr blaze receive a certified copy of this judgment order and he we have receipt of that well it wasn't sent by us okay it was be the it was either by the attorney or the court okay so anybody have any comments and well i'd like to actually just i don't know if carrie has anything to just add as an overview and then we can hear from other folks do you have anything to say carrie just the point of clarification that the order does allow the town to hire a contractor to go in and remove all structures on the property not just the one that we know about okay but there's not really as far as other structures all structures all tents those things apply yes really okay oh yeah structures and temporary living shelters located on the defendant's property at one hundred and ninety bear town road but again we do understand that you know in order to do that we'd need to find a contractor that would do that sort of work we would need to hire sheriffs to escort him we would need to give mr blaze proper notice that we're going to be entering his property to do this so we would incur quite a cost i'm not sure how much we could get estimates but we would incur quite a cost and as i said we would have to go get another court order in order to tack those costs onto this first judgment order so i believe that the cost reimbursement is part of that judgment no it's not no it's not it says it right in here and i clarified that with chat so that's above and beyond these are because this order only speaks to the four thousand and not to the cost of the removal so anybody else so the additional costs would that also go with the property i believe it would but yes i believe it would i tried to clarify that today and i'm not a hundred percent sure but i believe it would although if you think about it in a common sense way someone buys something at tax sale i mean they realize i'm not sure if he if mr lamelle knew that this judgment order was in existence when he bought at tax sale i just wonder it just seems something seems not quite right with that you know you'd go ahead and buy a property at tax sale and all of a sudden we come in and say oh by the way here's another ten thousand in fees to clear up the violations on this property so and as i said before i'm not going to send our road crew in to do this work it just wouldn't ask them ever ask them to do this it's not what they're here for so you know just as a discussion i would it sure seems likely that lamelle will wind up with the property i can't say that for sure but if he does you'll be dealing with a much more reasonable person that will want to work with you and get everything cleaned up i mean so that's kinda what we have before us is what we have to decide do we move forward and incur costs you know given the certain circumstances that's just happened is it fair to incur i don't know how much more costs to do this work and then have to wait at least until january 24th to recover the money so that's i'd like to hear i'd like to make comment i'd like to hear from other people first sure chris go ahead well just based on you saw the turnout of the people that were here at the other class few morning got postponed and we all feel the same way that robbie's been able to basically flower a loss since he's been there and what kind of incentive is there for him to stop breaking the law if we don't enforce these judgments it's i mean he's been living there when he says he's not and he's put up structures which don't belong there i mean why is he about to break the law and not have to you know where's the enforcement then and i think that that's a disincentive for people to follow the rules that the town sets out if we allow someone to continually proceed with you know with this behavior and it's you know mad maybe for the people who live on that road to know what that land was pristine and beautiful before and it's been turned into a garbage dump with illegal structures signs that are very threatening and warning that don't even belong there that haven't been removed from a right of way that i have access to because we bought land up there still things that haven't been taken care of and he's turned it into a complete dump and if we don't enforce the laws that we set up then what's to stop the next person we bought the land up there because we didn't want that to happen again so where's the incentive for people to follow the law or you know to know that there's going to be a penalty or consequence if we just let him get away with this and it's been going on for years now a quick question is anyone living up there now i you know to be honest i can't say for certain but i know that people have been back and forth even when he said they weren't living there i know that karen mcknight saw that structure that is on the court order and there were lights on and people have been going up there so and it's been you know it's a fear for us with our kids to have people going back and forth there that you know aren't what we would consider neighborly people chris what makes you think though with the structure gone that any behavior's going to change well i just think that it will be if it's there's no place to really stay or accommodate he's had the camper up there he's had other stuff up there there's it's like starting to clean up processes instead of eventually anything in my mind okay but if let's say we theoretically we go in there and we tear everything down and take down the traps and everything else he's proven himself to be a person that will live in very very rough conditions and you also have to look at this from you're poking a bee's nest here because you go down and you tear all those things down there's no reason why he's actually not allowed to go throw up a tent and camp for the rest of the summer out there you're i just want you to understand i truly do not feel from what i understand in this situation that removing anything on that property will make him go away until he no longer owns the property is he allowed to live there he's allowed to be on his land for some periods of time and i don't know how we never enforce him as you've seen we can enforce maybe tearing down a structure but to keep someone from being on their property and camping on let's say weekends i don't see how we enforce that at all so you still have the problem that you have no matter what we do there i truly do not think in fact it may encourage more behavior that you don't like by exacerbating the situation that's another concern not that we should live in fear because of that but i agree with seth i think you know we do this we follow this judgment order we do we clean the property up he has every right to go in there and seasonally camp and you're not going to stop that and we have no part of your you know your dispute with the right of way and that's not nothing that we have anything to do with you know the signs and so forth that road was discontinued it's no longer a town issue the right of way so i just let you know that part but i kind of have to agree with seth and i know it's i dunno it's a difficult situation i don't think you're going to find many people that would make it to this stage of a violation i think most any reasonable sane person would go to a superior you know would go would show up in environmental court and respect the judges order that's true i mean i agree with you i don't disagree with what you're saying but then where is the consequences for illegally right well we've been down this road before with a sipri parcel if i'm correct sipri removed the structure in compliance in compliance that's right yeah so there we had someone illegal structure we went through the motions they respected the i don't know if it it was the rb it was the rb so they respected the rbs decision and removed the structure chris i totally hear you and where i'm conflicted on it is why do we have rules at all if we're not going to enforce them and that i completely understand and i think that's a really valid point so i'm not taking that away from you for a second i just think all i'm saying is if we enforce this rule i don't see any behavior changing until he loses that property next january but that's no reason maybe not to enforce rules maybe those are two separate things i mean that's otherwise why do you have it on the books and then what's to stop other people from feeling other properties and getting so why would we be respectful and that's what we're asking as taxpayers that's one of the reasons why we have government isn't that yup yup question i know nothing of this situation whatsoever what is this really well it was a supposedly a sugar house it's a shed type structure like with a loft in it twelve by twelve maybe with a loft you know rough cut lumber six by six posts would it be possible to with the sheriffs escort yeah we still have to clean up the mask though the fact that you're asking a neighbor to go into another neighbor's property and burn their property down you know it's very emotional these are you know property rights a lot of people know this guy too and probably guys on the fire department probably know this guy he's a local guy so i said there's definitely it's a loaded you know and that's again why we don't want to ask the crew or someone like that be involved this also could be dangerous you know whoever if we did hire someone for this there definitely needs to be sheriffs involved and who knows what comes of it from there it is not a normal deconstruction process i'd say from what we know of the property and it's very possible you may not find anyone that would want to do this because you we would have it would be wrong not to reveal the whole history of what they're getting into before they go there so you know but again all speculation until we i mean just the fact that we're having this discussion about potential exacerbation and you know even say repercussion that was just that's not the way a citizen is supposed to behave in a town that's governed by rules and regulations and we like you said we should have been in fear but at the same time you're saying let's not disturb the hornet's nest so that's kind of a paradoxical i know but this when you throw this tax sale thing into the mix and you think about you know here we are it's you know one june six months and we're going to be possibly in a whole different situation but possibly not maybe come up with the money and be back there again but it's just something to weigh into the there's risks to the town to go ahead and enforce this as you can see right there's a financial risk there's other risks and the thought passes through all our mind is if this is someone else owning it it was totally reasonable in january i know it stinks for you guys up there but there's only six months left or so or you know of decent weather that you're putting up with this situation now i'd be eating my words if he's there in the spring and rebought his property and now we're having the same meeting again exactly and that's the thing if on the if he doesn't repurchase and if it does end up i think lamelle knows what he's getting into the situation to be honest so that i don't think there's a financial risk to the town for extending that money if it's going be picked up by the i mean i'm thinking he knows what he was getting into because people have spoken to him but if not then rodney can't have his land back if that additional money is tack on for the removal of structures that are going to end up having to be removed anyway at some point that's right but it wouldn't be on our dime it would be on the mel's dime not that it's about the money but again we're just in a different situation here than last week you know we're going to be putting a lot of things off here that we wanted to do and there's big considerations so i guess what i could tell you is i think i don't know how you guys feel but we could we'll go to the next step try to find someone that would be interested in this type of work get an estimate yeah i think that would be a reasonable so you know at least so we're moving forward in a direction does that sound reasonable okay we're going to have to get course we're going to have to i don't know we'll have to take advice from our attorney but then again there goes the time clock with the attorney but did we notify him again that we're coming in anybody that you know i guess we have photographs maybe that's good enough for the contractor to give a price you know to give them some kind of an idea then we'll get up get a cost from the chimney county sheriff's department and then we can if we can do that between like i said we've got lots of things going on but if we can try to do that between now and next thursday we'll try if not it'll be the following i would think that we look for rfps and then we come back in to july you give a month to go over all this to come up with an idea of what the we got sheriffs we got contractor we got an rfp to write so there's we've got a lot on our plate in the next week so i'd say that we revisit this in july one month from now yeah that's just another month goes by i would just assume if we get well we'd have contractor prices hopefully we would have contractor prices hopefully we would have shared price yeah information we'd have information i mean it would be worth just making a few phone calls maybe the certain excavating companies to see if they're even interested in that sort of thing you know i don't know maybe they're we could ask the sheriffs they've probably been involved in these situations maybe they know contractors that would do this work so they would start there well let's meet the middle issue for two weeks and we'll have some answers to you and then if we're not there all the way with answers then it'll be but let's shoot for two weeks how's that okay that's fine that's fine all right but we understand the hard spot you guys are in we really do yeah don't go up and needle them or anything but see if he's around in it from a distance or just seeing if there's foot traffic or you don't think he's around yeah that's a lot harder than you think because i don't want to go near there but you can't go too close in it's tough we have a court order to deal with and we should deal with it accordingly i agree so thank you for a reason i think it should be enforced i think waiting until january is the wrong move i feel that this is a violation against a specific violator basically and to wait and have somebody else kind of take on that violation when you could enforce it now i think this is the wrong move i understand that things have gone on in the last week and that flooding takes precedence and i totally agree with that but i don't think that putting this off until january is the right move to be perfectly honest okay so let me put it this way so say we incur i dunno five ten thousand worth of costs right we go to court we get a separate order for that we tack that on now we're up to fourteen thousand what do you think our chances of getting that from mr blaze are probably not very good but the fact of the matter is there is a violation i understand that but we have i think in a way we have done justice because there we went to the fact to get a judgment order we will be reimbursed that money one way or the other from the legal fees so i know it didn't go to full conclusion but you know at least i know it doesn't but to me it feels like the way it just keeps going because in a sense it's almost like he knows this one big press which is milking the system well i don't think reimbursing the full and not the deconstruction costs well we'd have to go for a separate order there and then i'm not so sure i would like i would like clarification from our attorney that that will be tacked onto this judgment order and lamelle will be responsible for that but i don't think it's right to make him responsible for that i don't think it is either but it goes with the property i mean you know the judgment orders here he didn't fulfill you know his obligation to tear down the structure then we have to go in to fulfill our obligation of enforcement so violation goes with the the violation does but the cost and the cost to remove these structures would be then recorded as a lien against the okay okay fair enough so i'm just a little kind of questioning the time between the tax sale and the lien you know there seems like a little something there that's missing maybe lamelle would like to tear it down himself that's a good that's a good thought that's a good thought that's a good thought and then he wouldn't incur the costs in the long run that's an excellent idea no but he's as a contractor or whoever he chooses to use as a contractor i also don't want to make it sound like the town doesn't have the money or can't afford to do something like this i don't wanna make that sound the way it is i mean funds are tight and we have a lot of expenses but again you don't not enforce rules because they're expensive and i don't think that's yeah like i said i'm not trying to say that but i'm just saying it adds into the you know i'm just looking you know say he does get it back at tax sale you know does he have to does all this have to come with it before he gets titled to the property or it's just the tax sale if he comes up with the tax sale money he still retains title but these still hang i think that judgment is still enforceable no i realize it's enforceable but but he doesn't have to pay is what i'm saying he has to pay his obligation to the tax sale to get title back to the property this stuff is separate it is separate but he would still be obligated i realize that somebody can be obligated forever and they're not gonna pay so it would be an ongoing dispute again i realize and just adding twelve every year and even if the structures are moved in you know he puts up another structure well that's a new violation that's a new enforcement it seems like it would be yeah i liked jerry's idea i think it'd be probably be prudent to contact mr lamelle and have a conversation with him about this so there's nothing there's nothing wrong with that a good idea let's do that that's a better so anyway are we all set do you have anything adrian would like to say or okay we'll do the best we can thank you guys for coming in so we have a tom garage heat approve audit is that something that we have to is that what you're here for here are you here for that or not did you talk about murphy yes and and we're going to have to reschedule that cause i totally forgot about reschedule him he was here at the last meeting i don't know i was out of town i sent a bunch of emails and never got any response i don't know what's going on okay i think we get skip on this and put that on i can't go off hand i'd say this has gotten a little bit of glacier pace yeah that's fine that's fine so now we have a town hall restoration projects on an email they detailed report needed to be done mike wisell worked with a contractor to put that together and did everybody review that okay how do we how do we feel do you have anything to say mike or anything you'd like to say yes i think that this that you have there that outlined the exterior repairs and replacements that you have speaks for itself as far as it goes but there's the issue of the storm windows and there was some discussion about a way to thermally improve these large historic windows and yet keep the windows in tact as a historic window and that was all set to have someone from parker and stern speaking here to look at ways that we might be able to accomplish that plan the events like this was a week ago your last meeting call me and say stop for now so i don't know where we're standing in terms of continuing on with this evaluation and inventory process or whether it's on hold temporarily or permanently or what but my next step if you want me to continue with any of this on the town hall restoration would be just to speak with someone like parker and sterns and get some hopes for what we would possibly be able to do to improve these windows and then add that information to the to the list that you have so you've got a full rundown of all the things that are recommended and then you can take that and go out for bids from contractors that would be able to implement this work right well i guess we had a little discussion last week when we ended our meeting just near the end whether we had you know properly authorized you to do this work or not so we could review the minutes from last meeting go ahead mark i don't think there's any misunderstandings because what i said we needed from mike in order to have him which is what we required from contractors and that just to keep in mind going forward purchasing policy and bid process i never said that mike could not have this contract all i said is we needed the payment sure i didn't say that but there were some other things that were said and i'm not going to i don't want to go there cause i want to put that behind us and we can review the tape from last week cause i thought it was very clear but like i said i want to put that behind us i want to move forward i think we have discretion i came to you and i asked you about our policy and we do have some discretion when we want to hire design professionals and people of your expertise so it's whether you feel like you would like to continue and whether this board feels like what we the decision we made two weeks prior to last thursday a policy of how we can hire a design professional without a bid process i don't have it in front of me but i there's professional engineers the bid process shall not apply to the selection of providers for services that are characterized by a high degree of professional judgment and discretion including legal financial auditing engineering risk management land surveyors and insurance services so i think we're we're all as a board trying to be very careful to stick to our policies have the proper hiring practices in place do competitive bidding all that sort of thing whenever we can i think from what we just read there in the policy i think it makes total sense and make sure that we hired mike who was such a good fit for this project so i very much strongly would hope that mike would to make a motion to keep mike on here working away at this because there's i must say there's very very this is a complicated project on this building there's not enough staff in our town hall to take on a project like this and i think again brad's idea of hiring some outside skilled services like you offer may make a ton of sense so i personally like to go forward with that i agree okay so i don't think we need a motion we'll just continue the agreement we had if that's all right with mike now i'd like to revisit the page road project can i just get one more step on this one one of the other questions mike and i talked about this project and he was going to meet like he said with the window piece but the other thing i just wanted to do you have any input as to a particular list of people to get bids from or if you want to advertise in a particular paper you just want to leave that up to us burlington free press or seven days or as far as following the bid process yeah so that was i was hoping also i don't think anyone is too busy to be out there looking for contractors and putting out bids it doesn't i don't you're too busy for that it doesn't but the financial part does but not like looking for those contractors so i also would hope that mike you'd be a part of that process because i don't know sure someone said something about you wondering if mike still interested i am not at all offended by anything has transpired in the last week i just want to know why do you want me to do and i'll be happy to work on this i'm happy to continue with the air conditioning element of this as well if you want me to be involved in that i think you're going to go to pedro more than eager to help with that so from my perspective i'm in well thank you thanks so if you want to just skip the rpc for a minute and talk about or what you want to talk about ac given you know given the circumstances too i don't know we've put the old air conditioners back in well the monitors in i know and pam my biggest concern with the air conditioning is the health conditions for our workers you know for our employees i'm not a big fan of those ac units they're the same ones they get taken down and they get put in the storage nobody bleaches them out nobody cleans them who knows what everyone is breathing in you know and i just don't think i think they are extremely unsightly hanging out the window so i think they're a security issue so my goal was to and the reason i was trying to expedite this work is because in my thoughts were to you because you know you don't have a lot of time involved and you get things done in a nice quick order and thorough so i just wanted to see the ac units get put in so i would still like to pursue getting the prices and then see what see what kind of money we're talking about but i don't know there's a little rfp that they put together for that and that's been sent out to five contractors that do this type of work and i've contacted each of them by phone and spoke to them personally about whether they're interested in this and they all said they were so i sent it to those so there's five people that in the next i think it's two weeks i'd have to look back at the dates but there's a date when i've said that we need their proposals and there's someone from i think it's energy supply company that has already looked at this and they've given you a proposal which was kind of the basis that we started all this and i've contacted them and told them what's up in terms of we have to get multiple prices and they might want to come and look at it again make sure that their number is still the number they want to go with so the way it's been set up those five people are free to contact the town office any time during the workday for the next two weeks to come and look around and see what it is we want to accomplish and then go back and work up their price and i've said that if sherry or dawn i can't answer their questions i can be contacted and i'll get the answers for them so i think we're in a holding pattern for two weeks come out here and take a look and give us the price we'll have the numbers so we can evaluate them and decide who to get to do the job my only question on the project and i totally forgot about this and mona mentioned it we had put in the capital improvement to reconfigure the downstairs and originally we put the ac on hold because we weren't sure it was going to work with the new layout of the downstairs because of walls being put up is that still the case or do we just want to do this i don't think we should wait because that's often my nemesis i'm always waiting for the next thing i'm trying to get planned up thinking way too far ahead and if you do that you never do anything so it's just that was in this coming year the unit will be of use whether it has to be moved again or not it's still at least it's there it's down there it's functioning that's the way i feel i don't know how you guys feel it gets quite warm down there in the summer humidity down there the humidity the volume the land records we have some old paper sherry has to run the dehumidifier all the time and the wine cellar vault there's some stuff that's just irreplaceable down there is there any reason to throw the i think we set aside about five thousand for some engineering ideas for downstairs does that ring a bell in the gap improvement plan does it make any sense when since mike's on all this stuff is on the building is on the ac for him also just to get someone looking at or him looking at or someone looking at this so that it isn't at least partially part of the plan you know i don't know i agree we can't take on too much and get bogged down and never get ac done but i just wonder if that should also be put on mike's plate or do you think that's overboard it could but we can't use that money until july yup and as we've talked about before if we don't get on the stick with the ac once it gets hot everybody's going to be out everywhere putting in ac units so i think we just need to move forward on the ac and then take that you know having an architect look at the layout down there as a separate right the layout will change anyways yeah right so whether the ac you know the unit will still be good whether it moves through a different place i don't think will but we really don't need a motion on this this is just information no this is just clarification of what whole business now i just wanted to talk about the page road i know it's not on here but i know we talked about the grant and you know and until we receive the you know the final word that we have the grant that we really shouldn't be spending any money like technically you can't get paid out of this grant because you've already worked before we've been awarded the grant but i think it's wellworth you're very close to being finished is that correct well i mean with the preliminary i've got a preliminary design on paper and the next step is to draw up a final plan some extra details that i haven't drawn at all yet preliminary or otherwise and put together a set of bidding documents you know the general conditions and tid schedule and that kind of thing so i'm not too far off but there's a bit more time involved i'd say a couple three days worth of time okay so where do we stand right now for your time all of this you've done so far we surveyed the bridge i told you before i'll stick with it that i'm not going to charge you for that time because you're volunteering your time i'll volunteer mine putting this preliminary plan together that i've done so far and then with the town hall what are we talking total here oh i think i got something like eleven or twelve hours total for everything and my hourly rate is seventy twelve hours so we almost have a design ready to go for pedro i think what i'd like to say about pedro is i realized that we shouldn't spend any money until we get the you know the final grant in our hand but we've been told that that we will be i don't know how it was the what do you want to call it donna was it a preapproval preapproval that we will be getting this structures grant hopefully that will still stay given the circumstances but i find that if we spend a little money upfront you know whether it's not in the grant but a little money up front to get ourselves in a better position so when we do get that grant we can put it out to bid and get it done reimburse yourself for the money you've spent up front can't you i don't know about that but i'm not really concerned how does that work with like the sidewalk grants or anything where you've got engineering you do ahead of time before you get your grants it's not qualified it's not qualified no you can't get reimbursed for anything that starts before you get any grant okay i was just going to say it doesn't sound like it's even a thousand dollars you know this really helps get the process going contingency fund and not worry about yeah anything that happens prior to doesn't count as qualifying costs it's like we're not there you know okay i want to kind of sit through this and i want to talk about some new business but sorry i'm not trying to have a conversation here but i just wanna say that i think we're it's money well spent hedging our you know hedging our bet that we're gonna you know we've gotten a preapproval of this grant we're going to get there i just think it's going to expedite the situation and everything will flow together and hopefully we'll be able to get that project done i noticed that similarly slips away and construction time slips away and it's already june and if you're not doing this baseline work and having that bid material all ready to go and it takes another whatever amount of time we're going to lose another year here on pedro so i agree with brad that i think it's money well spent that have our ducks in a row by doing the rest of the work of it do we need a motion or is this just administrative this is just clarifying still what we're i just want to clarify one more piece on that so you've got a preliminary design on papers are how's it gonna work as far as approval of the design before he goes and does the bid cause we talked about various options so i'm wondering when did we decide well we should decide we've kinda mike and i've talked about it we involved nate we should make that decision and but i think the two proposals basically we have a bottomless box i even ran it by the engineer the fema engineer when you were out there i said we have legend the bottom of this i said we'd like support two footings and you know put the arch box in and he thought that was a great idea now that i see what's happened maybe the eighteen does make sense instead of the fourteen i mean that thing was just eighteen foot foot okay anyway and then but then we thought well maybe this project will be too expensive so let's put in a second option which would be the arched steel steel steel instead of the concrete rectangle on footage same footing so it's attached to the ground pinnable edge and then it was still on in both cases it was still have lane walls to protect it from blowing out it's just a much less expensive structure i'm around numbers here now but it seems to me that the bottom was concrete box culver that's quoted from camp precast milton forty thousand range but just for the structure no wing walls no frames just drop crane into place and the multiplay arch pipe or rock arch cohort that go down on the footings instead is in the seven thousand range but the lifespan is less you know so it's nicer to have the concrete box culver if you can afford it how much do you think there's going to be in site work i don't think we need to go there that depth what i want to say yeah what i want to get at is the point is mike has kind of designed it so he shows both of these options so when we put it out to bid we'll get a price for each option excellent then we'll know it doesn't have to go back out to bid we'll know where we stand and then decide what to do so i think it's a great way to go and like i said we're very close i did hear some comments from vtrans out there that you know i talked about the structures grant and then there were some backpedal anyway but we'll see as we go forward so then then we have the rfp for the pleasant valley i had put together an rfp for the paving on pleasant valley road in general but i didn't know with the changes that we've had if we're going to take the money that we were going to use for paving that one section of pleasant valley to repair pavement and other areas so i didn't i've got an rfp prepared the only thing it doesn't have is additional technical specifications i did just a general what we're looking for type of surface cause you know i don't know with any of these technical specs go or not i have to sit with nate on that piece but the basic rfp is ready to go yeah i think yeah i think we should wait obviously should hold off till we have a better idea of where we are where we're coming what's going to happen so i'm just going to put it on the back burner for now i think that's wise i just wanted to get that clarified cause it's an outstanding project so then to move on to new business here i'd like to just start with a piece of new business before we get into this other stuff and that is four zero six mitigation and i'm going to explain what that is so when there is a fema declaration every time there's a fema declaration there is mitigation money set aside to improve structures and roadways that have repeatedly washed out so we are currently in the irene mitigation right now and the deadline for mitigation applications or grant letter of intent applications are is june 7th and i was i was strongly encouraged by dick hoskins of district five engineer to apply for these grants we all know how large irene was and i would think not that i'm just kinda on a common sense line of thinking that we think the bigger the event the more the mitigation so irene was the biggest event we've seen i would think there's a lot of heat concurred that there was a lot of mitigation money in there and that we would probably qualify for that basically we just need to i don't know this is a website i forwarded to donna and there's a bunch of forms and a description of what it's all entailed but i believe that if something that's repeatedly washed out or have having to be replaced or repaired you know a certain number of times i don't know if there's a magic number for that three okay so we've got irish settlement road down in the north end you know nate's suggested that that's washed out six times poker hill i know i've been here for two wash outs of the big fourfoot culverts on the north and the south pedro road for sure but i don't know how that will go with a structures grant you know they may who knows they may try to pull that and steer us down the mitigation line i don't know we've got dune road multiple times that stuff we've got places all over town but the situation i see that we're in right now is we don't have time that if we've if we don't get a letter of intent out by june 7th we're gonna miss this money and it'll be gone the mitigation will be gone but then we'll be onto another mitigation go ahead that's correct anytime there's a declaration so and this is something i didn't know and you wouldn't even have to be and we were not declared by irene in this county but because of that anybody in the state of vermont is eligible for this mitigation money and i had no clue i have to i just assumed that we were not involved either until i was told just the other day someone from fiona explained to me there's two things there's four zero four mitigation is four zero six and this is four zero six this is public assistance so as i said this is the irene declaration what needs to be done by june seven well i'm getting there so let's see so the letter of intent would include a description and a total estimate of the project so this is a situation and i'm gonna use the policy again i'm going to refer to this policy i don't know it would be great if we had all kinds of time to put out an rfp to several different engineering firms and to have them this is something i don't think we can do and if we want to take advantage of the situation and potentially get mitigation money i'm proposing that we hire some engineering firms or whoever to or split it up to you know come up with a list of projects and as i said just try to contact some engineering firms to see if they can do it on time and just go there you know i think it's yeah i know it sounds crazy but i'd rather this opportunity well we've used you know mike is sitting right here but i don't want to speak for him but you know we have champlain consulting engineers they've did a study for us i'm just talking about people that have worked for us in the past and i happen to know all the engineering firms in this county i know all of them personally so this isn't any conflict or i'm not trying to you know give suggestions i know everyone and literally and i'm just gonna give you some names of who has worked for us in the past champlain consulting has worked for us they did an irish settlement english settlement lower english settlement they did a drainage study there they've currently helped us on our stormwater discharge permits on mount vista and another road that the town owns we've used civil engineering associates clark elliot lives in town here large engineering firm out of south burlington they do all the work on the range very well qualified we have mike wisell here that's helped us true dell consulting has helped us in the past but given the fact that they aggressively came after us in the last commission you know hearing with ginny county road commissioners that didn't set well with me so but those are the people that have helped us in the past all very well qualified and i would propose that again you're going to be hedging some money here and i don't know if you ever have you ever applied for any of these grants mike can you guide us at all i have no idea but they just said they said it doesn't matter you could be up in the corner of the northeast kingdom and you're not even involved with this mitigation money is it's public that's why they said four zero six think of the last six since there's six letters in public so that's the way remember so it's for everybody now how much information we have to have on these well as i said that we need to that's where i just don't think you know given the time constraint you know what do we got seven days eight days but the letter of intent needs to go out by the seventh the actual grant i believe is the six the 12th i think but we could talk to ray doherty is the contact and i gave him a call before i got here but he was gone i'd like to talk to him and see just how involved what's involved you know i don't think it's necessary to go out and design something i just think a competent engineer needs to go out come up with some suggestions get some estimates write a description and apply for the grant so again hedging your bet but i was strongly urged to do this you're going on vacation do you have time to do something like this between now and then to reach out to find different engineering projects i got to have i got a no yeah i know we need to come up we need to move quickly here and i don't mind working on this over the weekend but we need to come up i'll sit down with nate we need to come up with some and then when you out to have some documentation in the meantime to back it up but i know we've got some records in the vault downstairs of various flood events so that's right let's just hold it for one more back you know if we could find one more back and i know a ninety ninety eight i think or ninety six there were some big that we have i saw the records in the ball down there for that event and they're pretty thorough did you guys get flooded during that one no i don't know but i know there's records down there of past flood events sherry could probably help round up all that info and go through it you have any idea of the cost implications of this as you say hedging the bet i don't think we're you know i don't think you'd be talking more than you know i mean i don't know i hate to say but you know like maybe you know one thousand five hundred to two thousand per truck per location per project you know i don't know maybe they could give us a lump price if you get if your group a bunch of them together maybe they could say well we'll do these for x amount of money and i'd want to get a price before he got involved you know just an estimate but i trust all these people they you know they're confident and they're not gonna you know true dells you know i'm not gonna speak badly about them but we've spent lots of money with them in the past and so we need a rp right no i'm saying that i don't want i don't want to go down that road i want to use and i know if we had time if we had time i just don't split up first of all you just got to call these people and see if they could even meet this deadline right they might not even be able to meet it and if they can't then we drop it you know i mean i'm willing to work i'm willing to work on a couple and if sherry if we wanted to team up and try to do what we could maybe if all the information wasn't there but our letter of intent was there i'll talk to ray doherty and i'll get this true scoop of what he wants what he needs so i'll do that tomorrow so we got to get the letters out first well the letter of intent needs to be the seventh but you need to get the engine first of all if i talked to him first thing in the morning i will know more what's involved and but you got to make some recommendations like we can't just go out to iris out on that road somebody needs to make a recommendation of what to put in there and then you need to get a cost of what that's going to cost kind of scrambled together like you did on pedro i'm done i don't know richmond teisberg jericho probably done a half a dozen concrete box culverts i've done a bunch of large pipe designs i got all the records for that stuff in my files just to bid what the price is worth it's not it doesn't take very long to come up with an estimate of what it's going to cost to build a similar structure and as long as we can do an estimate based on that level of detail not on an actual dissolve it's not going to take long to do that for instance that big pipe by my place if that's one of the ones you want to look into i mean i think in no more than four hours certainly probably less i could do an estimate of what it would take to replace that a little on your structure right you know that's like two hundred and eighty for four hours now you hire some of the larger firms their rates are going to be a bit higher but it's not going to be double blind or anything it's gonna be ninety or something instead of seventy so it costs you a little more but i don't think that it should be a real time consuming effort for engineers to take a look at these so if you could come up with a list of the structures that you're worried about over the weekend and then make a few calls to see if you could do something a little bit i don't think it would be a big deal a couple of days and the first part of the week next week by myself anyway could have a number for you for that the other thing that occurs to me is if some of these habitual problems structures that you've got in town are really reasonably small like thirty six inches or less forget about it no i know right right the problem is you know you know a lot of these sometimes they required a drainage study and engineering firms can do a drainage study you know they can do one in an afternoon you know they pull it up and they study whether you wait and you know you try to get first burnout state you can get that information for free so divvied it up i think it's an excellent idea basically need to do is just i don't mind calling right early in the morning and i don't mind making a few calls around to see if people are even interested in making this deadline or interested and then we can get either by email or somehow you know make that decision to go forward so you might as well take advantage of the money it's all our money anyhow so don't forget that for something more along the way so do we need a motion we're not spending money right now so i don't know no we're just i guess it was just discussion i don't well they could make a yeah go ahead make a motion to contact six engineering firms to well easy we're not going to contact six engineering firms they're going to con i would like to contact people we've used in the past and if they're not interested or they can't help us then i could try to broaden my reach contact several engineering firms several engineering firms that sounds good and see spread this how many structures well i don't know that we need to come up with an inventory list multiple structures over several engineering firms to get our letter of intent to fema well yes it'd be well actually it's to the state of vermont state of vermont it's a four zero six mitigation for four zero six mitigation all in favor i so great yeah no problem and like i said i wouldn't have known any of this unless fema told me and the costings from district five so so we have winter sand hauling winter sand i had been contacted about a couple of people in town wanted to know if we were going to do that and i said yes we will be putting out a rfp for all of the winter sand five bucks at a time well by the time whatever whatever they whatever the bids come in you know then we'll decide do we have anything we're not there yet so do we have any i was wondering why it was on the agenda there will get notified and then how they could bid on the process and when it will start i know we had talked about payment to a portion of it the town will do a portion of it how much if you had a limitation to how many times you could do yeah i want to first of all i want to go over and measure the pile up get a good handle on the volume we have right now in the yard and then we'll figure out what we're going to need and then we'll figure out what we got money for in the budget and then we'll make that decision but if you get the names of those people that contacted you we'll make sure to get that information to them it'll be in the paper it's just put it in a local paper and the free press prior to seven days so it'll all be part of the rfp maybe mid to later june so and then we put a date on you know when we'd want all that material and my thought was that yes you could haul some you know when we get closer to the fall october november you know when it's real rainy and crappy out and you want to you know do some of the hauling you can do that i just don't want to do the majority of it that's all but it'd be nice to get a handle on that yardage i can bring my instrument over and take a few take a few shots and estimate it's kind of coneshaped anyway so blake he wrote a rojan no i'm sure it's not now those trees that are in the broker they you think they're in the right of way or are they across the street yes it's probably i think it's a three rod we're not supposed to remove any i've been told by fema that we can't cut or move anything out of the right of way of the road take him over there all right that'd be the time once you got him you might as well take him anywhere you wanna is there yeah yeah we got a situation on silly hill it's i just went up there at night check it out we got about eleven feet of travel way there right now and that's the whole the pole's been fixed so the wire's been moved up yesterday but yeah we've got erosion all over the place so but you know what i just want to tell you you know talked about handwork but shouldn't scoff at that because over on ira's settlement road has structure over by mike's there's a beautiful little hand laid wall there on the east side of the inlab and it's held perfectly and you can tell it's gotta be and it's held perfectly it wasn't even touched i think some of those stones came from an old foundation land because we had to use native stones native stones okay so there's no rojan problem and what are we thinking well it's going to take personnel over there and we talked about using the youth conservation corridor they said that it was going to be too big need bigger rock than that so jim ryan was willing to meet with nate and look at the site again but he thinks it's a potential for the better back roads grant that hasn't come out yet this year i don't think we're talking a big amount of work here i mean it's just that corner we're talking about a few of those like of stone is there that much well yeah there might be there what about the state prison workers well i mean it's an option no i know but now it sounds like it's getting out of the the handwork type thing and more machines so we all right let's keep moving along contract this next trash contract it has been a threeyear contract with clean green and it comes to it did actually ends six thirty this june 30th i don't know if you guys had a chance to read through that contract you know this this trash thing goes back way before my time here from my understanding of it you know i find a little out of the ordinary from most towns that were even involved in trash and i know it comes out of having a dump back in the day and wanting to have trash services for people out here i did there are multiple trash haulers in the area now as you'll see on your roads where there's to sell out here and meyers and everybody else picking up whatever trash you want my question just i guess this is more of a general question is why i'd like to look at why we're involved in a trash contract at all and what you know why do we feel we need to take that on as a select board the only the financial benefit where we do not pay for trash here at the town hall and we do not pay for trash down at the town garage and we get a roll off two roll offs a year so there is a small financial upside to the contract but at the same time we're also i think in order to renew any contract the size we'd want to get rfps or get it there out to bid and make sure that you know it's it's the right company and doing that but we have so much to do we have so many rfps to get out there the townspeople have many choices for trash i'm questioning why we need to have a trash contract at all that was the alternative and i think we copied it from jordan we did and at that time where there no other trash haulers out here or i mean no it was just convenient way to do it with and back in the day the town hall used to be involved in making stickers collecting money doing the whole thing now the contractor that does it provides the stickers goes to the store collects the money and our hands are basically out of it so i also don't see why the stickers program wouldn't go on without a contract they already have the relationship people already that as a vendor i again question you know and i'm sure that i don't monique speak to this more than i but i wonder if there's a liability any type of liability issue at all to being involved in a contract i don't know i did read it and i've just kind of been the same it seems to me that it's something that started with good intention and has just kind of gone on and on and kind of gotten scaled back and scale back to now we're at a point of i'm asking why the time probably isn't right i know we had a discussion of trying to get one contractor to handle at least one section at a time so you have trucks running all over here duplications of travel that idea is being kicked around by cswd it's called districting and there are upsides to it for the environment and there are downsides to it for small haulers now and so from a business point of view of a small hauler may go out of business but then again you don't have seven trucks driving around your town customer choice too so yeah there's the up and down side of that but again i with as small the government as we have here to be involved in the trash business or trying to regulate the trash business i well i think one of the other reasons is that we continue to all along a big emphasis chittenden county is to recycle and reduce trash that goes into a landfill and by being able to offer our citizens a curbside pickup for trash that you pay for and the recyclables go away free it helps that whole movement toward increase the recycling decrease the trash on the ground so there was sort of an environmental bent to it i think back when we started it and it still is really what you say makes more sense about i guess promoting maybe one hauler to keep you know all the traffic down but i think people should have the choice to hire whoever they want to take the trash i take my trash to cambridge and you know we no longer yeah we ran the dump in the old days we ran you went there we ran the dump you know and then beyond that then we went to stickers and it used to be you just went out and paid whatever the downside is in the next thirty days we'd have to find a trash service for town hall well that's not a big deal and the town garage and that will publish the schedule of the waste and recyclables in the newspaper and that will i'll put it on the website and that will reporting days for the semiannual collection it also says that recycling for town hall that was years ago that's old old stuff i think the only thing we need to watch out for is that no one's service is interrupted so my thought would be i'd like to get some feedback from clean green whether or not without a contract if they continue to sell stickers and continue to do their work out here so if they're willing to continue to do without a contract and no one's worse of the wear it does say here that services provided to residents and businesses are a private matter between contractor and those individuals and are outside the scope of contract i'm with you about the liability i mean say something happens you know and then somehow are we connected in are we party to the suit you know if there was one i just don't see why we need to be why does the town government needed to be involved in trash at all since we don't own a dump anymore it just makes no sense but people should have the freedom hire whoever they want i mean it was funny i was up in south euro and a friend of mine came in and bought crabs and he was buying a bunch of dump stickers so they still do the same thing too you know and so i think it's just people do it cause we always have how about this as a motion can donna can you get feedback from them on whether or not they'd continued if it wouldn't interrupt the service and they continue to sell stickers and then we revisit it at the next meeting to the contract itself if it's not an interruption then yeah does that make sense yeah and how much how much trash do you have over there at the garage nate told me maybe once a month or so yeah there's not a lot so that'd be the only consideration once a week probably alright so that sounds good maybe we should have clean green in too for the i was gonna say that was my thing since the contract's ending do we want to yeah once one would be the next we have a meeting next thursday don't we yeah but that's too soon i think i mean if the chance are ends on the 30th maybe we could get them on the 20th or something yeah then we have the sheriff contract that's also coming both come in on the 20th yeah sounds good okay so we have the well i just got i have this this was the access permit stuff was gone but we did david and i decided to grant the access permit next door here we couldn't find anything on our road policy or otherwise that would give us the authority to deny him that i think in certain situation this situation is okay because there's plenty of site distance we're going to remove the trees out front here but i put these restrictions on conditions i said that that he must use an experienced and insured contractor shall communicate with a road foreman before commencing work in the right of way or before commencing work shall have proper sign is traffic control while working within the town right away curb cuts shall be built to be seventy one standards and big say shall be called before commencing work so those are the conditions i put on sounds reasonable it's an off week so we have the minutes we never approved yeah we skipped over that oh yeah oh right the policy yeah yup i discussed that with town crew went over that with them and just a reminder that it's a policy basically just stating that you know crew or anybody on in the service of the town cannot you know use town property or town tools or anything like that to do anything with their personal equipment and so that's just a clarification of that policy and that's been handed out to the crew everybody's got it okay so we have an understanding there nate about that or do you have any comment okay thank you all right so now we've got the can i have the actual minutes because i did read them i just wanted to there was a mistake i had made that no one caught next to the name okay right i remember i remember someone pointing that out make a motion to i can make a motion to amend the approve the approve the amended minutes from four twenty five thirteen select board meeting i say all in favor i thanks jerry thanks jerry so we have the may 9th two thousand and thirteen minutes which we had the recreation committee in with pool excuse me we just got to finish up this and we'll be right we'll be ready to chat so we have the sign and we've made some conditions there i think this is where we had mike wisell to assist with the smaller projects the red cross shelter that's kind of curious i'm just going to kind of discuss this in minutes while we're in it just because it's remained yeah there was some talk about that night thursday night at two in the morning when i was down at the fire station when the state police and the rescue you know we wanted to set up a temporary shelter because there's quite a few people that couldn't get home so we wound up we're kind flailing around where to go i thought we could come here but this is kind of so out of the way and no one was here someone offered at the church but we wound up going to the browns river middle school red cross came but i think it's kind of important to have this we need to figure out this should we put this on another we should probably revisit this i know we kind of said it really brought it home we need to contact the school but if something happened here towards the center it would just be nice to have multiple locations so but anyway kind of asked them and then we decided not it kind of felt like we didn't wanna have everybody there because it wasn't very it wasn't very comfortable you know in the garage and with stuff going in and out people going in and out the doors are open they try to avoid having the shelter in the same location as a command center yeah that's kind of what we have decided but that doesn't mean they couldn't house the thing there and we could take it somewhere else yeah yeah yeah it's true essential school would make sense for here and then maybe the church in park street would make sense too but someone like to make a motion to approve the minutes like to make a motion to approve the minutes from five nine thirteen select board meeting i second that was there any discussion on that all in favor i i just all business here the stoners inquired if it would be possible where you put it relocate the speed limit sign to the same post as the watch children's sign it makes it hard to see plenty on the driver no action taken the stance that court needs to check in to sign regulations the one thing nate said we can not move it to the same bowl as the watch children so it'd be a case of where can we move the speed limit sign within i had a feeling you can't you can't gang up signs like that we can move it south is that going to make much of a difference the sign's line of sight is the question well it was her when she was driving her pickup truck coming out of the driveway she couldn't see towards the village or could it be raised if the sign was raised would that help okay all right you can move it which way nate i could move it towards the glass and did you see a spot that looked fitting and wouldn't be any resigned site okay thanks that came in other day for just a warrant entrance of parking a little bit that did come in yesterday okay yup thanks nate just to note to the cswd is going to be coming in next time to do it that would be good to bring up if we could rewind the trash hauling thing cause kind of what went through my head as i wonder we do we have an obligation with them to provide i wonder if there's some connection there just to talk to them about what would they think if we didn't you know support a trash hauler so we have another seven minutes next select board meeting will be the regular meeting on june 6th made arrangements for sherry to take the minutes on that as i won't be here and like said cswd is coming in at six thirty i have another agenda item at six and sherry has i think a liquor control board piece she needs to have done so i'm trying to keep it light since she's covering and then the other thing is we have a special select board meeting june 24th at nine hundred am to set the tax rate and then i also wanted to discuss we do not have a meeting scheduled for the week of july 4th because the select board schedule would make it fall on 4th of july someone needs to stop by to do warrants so just a reminder there and i didn't know do you want to schedule another meeting at some point prior to two weeks after that do we want to reschedule for a different night i don't know how you guys feel but given the circumstances we probably ought to try to meet on the 27th on june 27th is that crazy or that one week up we had one week after well with all this flood stuff it might be only a five minute meeting but why else to do it i'd rather do it then and then then we could off cycle though then we wouldn't have another meeting until the 18th right anyone going on vacation that week i'm gone i think the 4th of july i'm actually going on six twenty seven or six twenty six the only thing that really testing is warrants well those have to be done any way someone has to stop by and do those anyway we're talking about just what a regular meeting a regular meeting well we could do the 11th is that a better the 11th i've open schedule yeah okay so the 11th we'll do and then we'll just eighteen and then seven eleven and seven eighteen okay so can we back up again what are other gates coming off of the 24th at nine hundred am of june and we're not really gonna set the tax rate tax rate sets itself review the tax rate 24th of june at what time at nine hundred am nine hundred am that should be quick yes should be fifteen minutes and sorry what was your the 6th of june and then the 20th of june our standard meetings and you're adding the 11th and then we're going to go instead of july 4th it's going to be july 11th and then back on schedule july 18th six twenty and then someone would need to stop in the week of the fourth to sign warrants so we're going to be eleven to eighteen okay yep july 3rd okay oh we have a board of bateman meeting did you guys get that one is that new it's new it's recent what's that one of the bateman that one coming up do you have that in there i don't have a new board of it oh i do what do we do that one coming up here i don't remember what the date of the board of bateman is is it on the same yes they didn't have enough cause they let him go that's a whole different one so we'll just find out we've got that from you know when it is six thirteen make a motion should we six thirty six thirty pm yup okay adjourn make a motion to adjourn this may five thirty two thousand and thirteen select board meeting at seven twenty five