so call the meeting to order at seven hundred and two most of you probably already have but make sure you sign in so that we know you're here with us tonight and the first item on the agenda is public to be heard is there anybody here who wants to talk about something that's not on the agenda tonight there are agendas going around i have one yeah right here okay so we'll get right down to business the first item is about ccta bus service and i assume that you are meredith burkett yeah i just need to hand out thank you is this the same thing that's in our packet probably maybe i slightly revised it oh okay so then no ninety five percent the same okay this is great do you wanna come up here and join us oh changed the bullet points added a little bit so i thought i could go through just these major topics an then take any questions you might have so we're here because the ccta board recently in this past summer selected the jeffersonville commuter route as its priority project to seek funding for in this fiscal year this follows ccta adopting a transit development plan in september of two thousand and ten that laid out a vision for an expanded and improved transit system the jeffersonvilleroute was included in that definitely pointed out is one of the major corridors into jennings county that doesn't currently serve the route fifteen corridor into burlington so the general service overview of what we have in mind is a mondaythroughfriday commuter service it'll connect jeffersonville cambridge underhill jericho essex town and then into burlington it'll travel primarily along route fifteen revision four round trips per day two morning and two evening our commuter routes tend to start with two hundred am and two hundred pm trips that serve the peak commuting times we would say the stops including downtown burlington fletcher allen uvm given that's such a large employment center champlain bell where there's connecting service essex center jericho underhill cambridge and jeffersonville and the exact stop locations would still have to be determined through a public process and discussions with the local towns but it would not stop at all the stops in along route fifteen in essex all the st mike's oh sure it could yeah so we have but that would make it a longer bus for the people who are coming from out here so they would only stop if there was somebody wanting to getting off there as for get on and you'd have to kind of flag it our commuter routes tend not to stop as frequently as our local routes obviously for that same reason that it would take too long we designate what are called time points which are major stops that we can't leave early so those are the times that people can absolutely depend on the bus never departing earlier than the time it's put in the schedule the intermediate stops you'd have a little bit less clarity about exactly when the bus was gonna be there i see okay so then we would also offer connections to the rest of our system in burlington and winooski we offer free transfers so that expands the reach of the route we envisioned the fares would be two per one way trip which is what we charge for our milton and our hindenburg commuter route so we would have the same fare structure our roughriders estimates at this point are about seventy passengers per day by the end of the first year of service it usually takes about three years for the routes to really mature so we don't expect it to be total gangbusters in the first year it does take time to fill this is seventy riders per bus per day oh per day oh i'm sorry i forgot day sorry seventy riders per day by the end of the first year of service so that's basically thirty five individuals in and out we estimate a one hundred percent net cost of service so that's after we've deducted any fare revenue to be about two hundred and ten to two hundred and fifteen thousand per year and we think the earliest service could start depending on these two funding scenarios which i'll lay out next would be the summer of two thousand and thirteen and depending on how it goes it might be the fall but somewhere in that range so this is the part that gets a little bit complex and i'll describe why there are two potential funding options for the service the first is called the congestion mitigation air quality grant that's the typical way ccta has funded new services over the last probably ten years cmaq was the abbreviation for congestion mitigation air quality those are federal funds that are awarded by the agency of transportation through a competitive grant process so all the transit agencies in the state compete for cmaq funds usually on an annual basis there've been a few years where that funding hasn't been available but it's usually annually eighty percent funding of the net operating cost that's provided in federal funds and then there's a twenty percent local match and so ccta would be seeking on that local match from jericho underhill and cambridge jeffersonville to share in that twenty percent match we estimate the twenty percent match to be about forty two thousand a year again if fair revenues come in higher and more people ride and we collect more fares that lowers the net cost and so of course the twenty percent match is lower as well and we've gotten some indication from re trans that the same background obligations will be due sometime late november but they haven't said exactly when so that's the normal way we would move forward with trying to seek funding for a new service but this year there's something called the circ alternatives process and i'm not sure how familiar the select board is but given that the governor announced that the circ isn't going to be built as originally planned he had a task force set up that's being led through the ccrpc and there've been a certain round of implementation projects that are providing funding for projects that benefit the area that the circ would have served so that includes essex town we feel like this commuter route would absolutely reduce the traffic and the vehicles traveling through the circ study area so we think this is a great candidate for potential funding through that process it appears that a one hundred percent funding might be available for a period of time for the service so we're actively seeking that then talking with people at the rpc and trying to figure out exactly how we can introduce this project as one of the potentials to be funded through that process there hasn't been absolute confirmation that a one hundred percent funding will be available but that's the indications we're getting so if a one hundred percent funding were available obviously that full twenty percent match wouldn't be needed immediately we don't expect a one hundred percent funding to last forever if it's available but hopefully for a period of a few years so when this opportunity came forward i went to the ccta board and asked them this is very different than how you've treated other communities who are getting new service are you comfortable going to jericho underhill cambridge jeffersonville and not asking for any funds in support of the service and their answer was it would be nice to have a commitment of some sort from the towns to show commitment to the service it doesn't need to be that full twenty percent match but something relatively substantial to show commitment that we've placed in escrow for future years if you didn't need it immediately so i'm thinking something probably in the range of eighty five thousand a year the full twenty percent match a third of it five thousand each yes yeah turning over the last section on the handout that i run through or what i see is important next steps and questions that we have first and foremost there's the select board support ccta moving forward with this service proposal obviously if there is a local support we're not gonna push the issue if there's going to be support for funding and the service at a local level assuming that there is support we will be looking for a letter of support either for the circ alternatives process or cmaq application just committing to your support the route in terms of funding i'm curious to talk about what the deadline for ccta to inform jericho of that amount whether it'd be five thousand with a one hundred percent fundings available or potentially fourteen thousand which would be a third of the local match share so what's the timeline we're working with for that and then if you have any particular concerns or questions now's a great time to start those conversations so we can make sure to work out the details i have a question sure we've had indications and i'm not quite sure where they came from that a go nogo requirement to bring bus service out to jericho would be for us to find a parking line location which could serve as the bus we're all in favor of such a thing but it's turning out to be difficult to find the location the question is would finding a park and ride locations be an absolute requirement for this program i think we absolutely need to find some sort of park and ride location to support the route i don't think that needs to be the prominent municipallyowned lot cct has entered into lease arrangements in support of some of our link routes kind of as an interim until something more formal can be developed we rented space at country home products in vergennes before the fares for park and ride was constructed by the state so there are interim things that can be done i think providing some level of commuter parking so people can drive to access the route is gonna be integral to its success we agree with you that isn't the problem the problem is finding a suitable place that's hard now do you need a space initially that you can turn around in or can you stop on route fifteen with a bus stop or do you have to so i think we can stop on route fifteen as long as when going in the opposite direction there's a safe way for people to cross the road so obviously we wouldn't wanna do that and probably anything over forty five to an hour zone so if it's a low speed area and it's clearly relatively pedestrian friendly area we can stop on the road another question is how do you determine the is it just equal spread among all the towns or is it proportioned out by population or things like in terms of the match so what we're proposing is an equal share we anticipate that more riders would come from jericho than from jeffersonville but the cost of those passengers from jeffersonville would be higher because they're riding further so it's not an exact match but i think for ease i think a third makes sense that's what we did in support of our us two commuter out in washington county marshfield plainfield and east montpelier all share equally in the local match even though obviously east montpelier is far shorter than the trip in from marshfield but that seemed to have you talked to the other towns yet no i'm going to underhill next week and i spoke with the cambridge town clerk and again on an upcoming meeting in cambridge and one of our board members has already had a conversation kind of an intro conversation with the cambridge select board and they seem interested they seem interested yeah so the meeting i had an initial meeting with underhill staff it wasn't with the full select board so we'll see how that meeting but we're hopeful there's been residents over the years who've contacted us definitely expressing interest we think this is certainly an important corridor to offer our transit service on so we're hopeful that there'll be public support for it so assuming that this happens when do you anticipate us having to pay you the match so we figure out which budget to got to so it would be for our fy14 which starts july 1st two thousand and thirteen so the one we're preparing for now yes so the budget that would go in coming day this year in terms of a budget deadline i mean we're preparing a budget now okay and of course the final is march 14th but the budget goes to the town well before that right so the question it goes to the publisher at the end of january yeah so it's not unthinkable by any means for us to reserve a certain sum of money put it in the budget to be expended if the program goes forward and not if not yeah that's something that you're comfortable with i think that would be great i'm hoping to have a lot more clarity than i have right now about the potential funding sources and the amounts needed in a month and a half by early december i'm hoping that it's been honed in a lot more than it is now the circ alternatives process definitely is complicating the proposal normally i would say cmaq grant this is what we're proposing this is the cost but it's such a great opportunity to potentially get service on the ground for a lower intro cost for the towns that i think exactly i count four towns jericho underhill cambridge and jeffersonville so my understanding is that jeffersonville and cambridge might be i don't think jeffersonville has its own municipal budget i think they fall under cambridge it's a village i think of cambridge it's a village of cambridge oh i see i didn't know that but i'll get clarity with that okay fair enough and when i do i'll let you know i didn't know that shame on me why not apply for cmaq and have the circ alternatives money pay for the twenty percent match i think it's not allowed so i think the pot of money is actually ultimately gonna be the same so i'm not sure that that would i have to think about that i didn't think of that before but i'll yeah it's all coming from the same pot of federal hybrid money man one i've been through similar things before and the federal government takes a dim view and taking money from one pocket to another the circ alternatives task force has it's federal transportation money the money that would fund the transit service i think is coming out of the same pot as the money that would fund cmaq it's really a question of if we get it into the circ alternatives process i think if it's selected by the task force as one of the projects they wanna advance i think there's a very high likelihood that it will be put into the state budget cmaq grant application is competitive so we'll be competing with other services throughout the state i think it'd be a strong application but i think the circ alternatives process might be a little bit more firm the other question is since this is a competitive process every year it's not unthinkable that we have this service for three or four years and then we lose a competitive bid and it all goes away so the competitive grant is a onetime thing to get the funding but it's an annual running these things is an we don't have to raid biannually so once you make the grant and if the service is proving to be successful so it's not competitive every single year correct ah okay fine it's a onetime that wasn't clear okay and then how long does it go on the cmaq grants have historically been threeyear grants there might be a change to that in the recent transportation reoperation so it was one time for three years and then you've got to come back and try again well after three years the practice has been if it's a successful route the state has provided another source of funding to make up that eighty percent so our montpelier link we started to see that funds about ten years ago it's been a great success the cmaq money is along since run out but the state has found other ways to meet that eighty percent requirement okay another question it's two you're proposing two each way yeah does this commuter link bus route count would be the monthly passes yep we have a monthly pass for our local commuters i believe it's seventy five a month or there's a ten ride which is just ten times the two so it's a twenty really just for convenience as the ten ride okay so you don't really save a lot of money by doing the monthly unless if you're gonna ride every day you'll save money it'd be probably twenty to twenty two weekdays so it might be eighty to eighty five a month if you're just going to pay cash so you'd say ten but given the cost of gas for one gallon right now absolutely we're definitely seeing an increase we've been having a lot of standees on some of our commuter routes so well then i also think that the state is clearly going to have more buyin for public transit anyway to keep it in the future given that they wanna reduce their greenhouse gas emissions by fifty percent by two thousand and twenty eight reducing vmt is gonna be a key component that's a big deal is to get that vmt reduced so i'm perfectly prepared to make the motion there are two things you'd like for us one is motion on the first item the second no motion is required you just want some information which i think you've already got yeah sounds like as soon as possible but early january would be the well even then it's not absolute if it's pretty clear we're going forward we'll reserve some money okay that's perfect is there anybody in the audience who has questions or comments about this david i know you have a problem with the parking right i think i have a temporary solution anyway fantastic that i believe the people that are familiar with along route fifteen at least a temporary basis depending on the area how many cars and a lot of different things that i thought i would write down maybe we'll let them use that wow cool i'm not familiar but we can chat as soon as this goes forward we've had a hard time finding something that works your land is in the mill area yeah i have some commercial land it's along route fifteen across from the irish flower place if you're familiar where that is and i also have twenty four acres of land on route fifteen where it used to be the sawmill area across from the substation area and at least in that area depending how long and so forth it's a little more critical to me and it might work out for some kind of solution longterm for at least i don't know how big a parking lot put in there depending what we would have probably would do but at least on the short term there's plenty of land there and the basis is your not gonna have to do anything right adjacent to fifteen is key yeah i think the commercial actually has the most longterm viability because we can't do municipal other which is a parking lot in the village center which is david's sawmill property unless there's a zoning change or something like that interesting yeah but it's not but it's not that's not an absolute insuperable let us worry about it this is good news good news we at least have something worth doing we have two viable options anyway that's fantastic so i'll move that is there anybody else who has any questions or comments about this okay oh i just like to make the comment that i support doing this and i think that i would be one of the people riding the bus at least occasionally this particular route doesn't serve my commute but it definitely would serve some of my other needs and absolutely recognize that it's sort of a starting point and hopefully it's at least in a way to show support in use of transit and something we can go from so i would move that the select board oh sorry do you wanna you said earlier on thirty five riders are seventy each way where does that number come actually we have commute data from the it's not the census anymore but it's a survey done at the federal level and we can get numbers on a number of commuters from towns in vermont into burlington and so i took those figures and apply the market share that we get on other commuter routes and applied it and so how long worst case scenario how long do you run empty buses for like at what point do you say wow it turns out nobody here is getting on the bus we usually do routes three years and that's usually when the state especially at this point with cmaq will come in and say you know it's not working you need to either make significant changes or we'll you know and it would be onestop in jericho onestop in i don't know we might do more there will be two yeah obviously we don't have too many stops cause it slows it down but if there are two places that really make sense parking right in another place that's walkable that's certainly feasible and if it moves forward there'll definitely be public hearings in each community as we're designing the group to figure those things out all right thanks all right cool now you can go team go for it so i move that the select board vote to indicate it's support for the proposed jeffersonburlington commuter route and declare its willingness to write a letter of support for the cmaq grant application i'll second that all those in favor aye thanks meredith thank you so much thank you oh it's exciting it's very exciting it's about time man we talked about it for a long time is there going to be wifi on the buses meredith in time most of our commuter routes do have it now see it was a good question did you hear that there is wifi on the buses we're getting there oh my goodness i'll be able to multitask on my way in yes thank you thank you very much so much for coming thank you yeah the others very nice but david's idea of it maybe we could hit one of the churches in this area so that quiet somebody down yeah definitely what about the school area because it's slow there where's the other one the elementary school oh the other ones up further but i'm the elementary school that's a good idea yeah we might look at that too the other one i was thinking at the post office it's down by the red mill i mean there are a number of possibilities for just to stop the red mill is not a possibility there's no shoulder that's true there's no okay but you know maybe by the church you can try the church and mrs b's barn there has a circular parking lot yeah there might be they'd have to be able to stop on both sides and it's fast there and she said it had to be less than forty five thirty five thirty five so that's why yeah we will work on it it gives the energy task force something to work with because it's spread out so long here are two what might be practical yeah i mean at least the energy task force has something to hang it's head on then i mean there's a lot of sense for having one each in the two big population centers which is here in the flats yeah yeah absolutely anyway okay okay so the next item on the agenda is the safe routes to school grant application pat yeah this really came up pretty recently this may be one of the last opportunities we have to apply for a designated safe routes to school grant because of some of the changes that meredith was talking about in the transportation bill safe routes to school grants are a hundred percent federally funded so as long as you don't go above the maximum grant award of two hundred and fifty zero there's no local match required what we are proposing to apply for are really two grants one would be we could refer to as an infrastructure grant which would look at on river road installing permanent radar speed feedback signs and then at the crosswalk on the curve with dickinson street installing a pedestrianactivated rapid flashing beacon the other part would be the other end of dickinson street with route fifteen installing a crosswalk there and again also the rapid flashing beacons that's one application another application would be to conduct a feasibility study the town did something similar almost fifteen years ago but again looking at the river road route fifteen intersection in terms of vehicular movements pedestrian safety there's been a lot of talk recently about the crosswalk in that area or lack of crosswalk in that area and recently the school held a walk to school day and believe had a survey and that was one of the high one of the main concerns was that intersection as well as when we did the aarp walking audit that was i think the priority intersection for the town to look at in terms of intersections and looking at pedestrian enhancement so that would be a feasibility study to look at what types of improvements could be made to the intersection what sort of pedestrian improvements could be made wouldn't result in any construction but it would be the first step in getting to any construction if that's what the town decided to do does this go along then with the email train that was with randy clark and the crosswalk by the park i mean that's for the park no it would be the same thing cause you can only have so many crosswalks within a certain distance you cover so it's related but it of didn't come out of that that's just another concern that's been raised at the intersection from a different person from venue doing a feasibility study will help deal with that particular issue yeah and see what what options there are what things people might like to see there and then the board could decide if there was an alternative that they liked that they wanted advanced do feasibility studies of this kind cut any ice with the state with dtrans because this is a state road anything we do we can do a feasibility based off wazoo yeah i mean that you have to do it i mean without you can't really get anywhere with dtrans without starting with at least a scoping feasibility study has it been observed in mankind's history that they respond to something like this well you know the street scapes is one this is route fifteen it's their right of way depending on what we did it may likely end up that it'd be something that the town would have to maintain because it would be our project but you just have to go through their review process and they'd have to approve it so this isn't hopeless no it's the stuff that randy clark had talked about i mean we as a town wanted to do that a long time ago to get some way of getting people across the street to the park right mainly the concern or question really is about the safe routes to school money can be spent on sidewalks right i mean we could just and doesn't the rpc often pay for the study or aren't there a lot of grants for studies the money through the rpc won't pay for engineering and this is engineering the feasibility study the feasibility study it's planning so we could apply to the rpc but they will require a twenty percent match this would be a one hundred percent funded i don't believe we could apply for the beacons and even if we could apply for the beacons it would likely be more than the grant available for their sidewalk program and do these things total up to the two hundred and fifty thousand oh not even close no so why don't we come up with some sidewalk stuff to pay for because we don't have any design that we could apply for it you have to have with these anywhere you have to have a completely engineered sidewalk and this is the last one right so that's why yeah it's the map21 program or something they're changing it as of october 12th so we don't have plans from the street scape process that never got built out to fruition that could be used no because i know in the beginning of the street scape project there was a lot of brainstorming and a lot of different proposals and there was talk about more sidewalks going further no no it got built out as far as it could no it didn't but that was the grant that they got and they spent every nickel no i know but i thought there were a lot of studies done before because early on in the process there was different proposals and some of them included more sidewalks going up all the way to sullys hill sidewalks going down the river but i don't think they got engineered is the problem you're probably right i'm just asking right and the approach that we're taking here is there's been a lot of discussion in this area about trying to make some improvements for pedestrian safety for quite some time and not much has really happened so we see this as something that's the beacons and the speed signs it's something that's pretty easy to implement so it can be on the ground fairly quickly that's why we're not proposing and moving any crosswalks like the one on dickinson street proposing to move it cause you'd have to add sidewalk it's just let's try to make what we have safer than it is now knowing that down the road there may be bigger improvements that are made and you don't conflict so that's right i mean these are movable mobile right now could we move the actual can we move the hardware i mean if we were to yeah you can move it i think it sounds okay what do you guys think fine absolutely it's at least something we can do anyone have any concerns all right i don't have any concern rather a question just to sort of keep constant prodding how you said that none of this stuff would get in the way at all down the road other stuff if either something happens where is down the road looking like at this point next month depends on what you're talking about next year two years ten years thirty years well we do have in the capital budget money to do a sidewalk priority study so that we actually can talk about all the different sidewalks or trails that are needed in town and oh town wide and not town wide and actually begin to prioritize cause right now it's just sort of hit or miss i mean there's some good ideas and we'd go with it to they have a whole unified plan is our goal and then we can prioritize it and then where all the places in our dream world we would have sidewalks now what is an orderly way for prioritizing this so that we know and the citizens know why we're doing it here and not there on any given year with any given pile of limited money beyond that that's something that's really different but it's all funding constrains in relation to the whole dickinson discussion that's been happening for the last five six seven years where is that going if anything that isn't anywhere at the moment frankly it's a million and a half dollars the town can't bond for something like that dickinson is connected with whatever ultimately happens with the property that david owns is the property dependent on dickins no no no the two things have to go together i mean it's not a chicken or an egg there has to be a joint program because we can't spend a million and a half dollars to make a road nice that is not connected to any large development we just don't have that kind of money cause i think the rest of the town can but you can't develop until he gets act two hundred and fifty which means you have to have a plan no no that two hundred and fifty is not a barrier here we've been down the rack two hundred and fifty road with that the problem is we need a plan sufficiently large sufficiently valuable to generate a reason to spend the million and a half dollars we can go out and build a nice million dollar and half road through the middle of a cow pasture we don't do that do you still have those plans from tridel who did it tridel there are some amazing inspiring plans for what i mean it would have more iterations but we all looked at the presentation and drooled but then the price tag is prohibited well and i think because act two hundred and fifty we're just looking for action from the town that the town will do something the fact that we spent all this money on the planning process first we did the study and then we updated it with the tridel engineering so it was much more engineered to be a full street scape i think act two hundred and fifty would except that it's the fact that the town has done at an earlier stage there was a discussion david was in negotiations with the lady who owns the the rehab the rehab center and there was an act two hundred and fifty process associated with that we the select board said here's what we would be willing to do to support that and the act two hundred and fifty board accepted what we said we would do as sufficient so we were not the reason that stopped that failed to come to fruition for other reasons what we were prepared to do on dickinson street satisfied the two hundred and fifty board and what i mean it should be fairly clear that we can't spend that kind of money on something that just as long as it's a very small road how about others much much more minor not the level of that big picture but we talked about making tickets in two ways that's doable that's doable small changes that don't cost a lot of money are still on the agenda but it's still a lot of money because of the buses and it still has to be i don't know what was the price tag on making in two way i can't remember well there were many different price tags of bidding on how ambitious you got you can do things that are pretty cheap it is real cheap it has to be widened and rounded but it is that in conversation it's in conversation yeah but we also have a road priority list that generates where we need to be spending our limited budget we do have a road priority list where we don't yet have a sidewalk priority list so it depends on where it falls in and what makes it bubble forth to the surface but there is this list and how deteriorating the road is when you need to fix it and so that's what we're working down right now the highest priority is kind of low that's a big chunk of money kelly i'm just wondering if started proposing safe route to school will make any difference in two way big part of that study and is that possibly part of the safe routes to school that even if we do it in the least expensive way that doesn't allow the buses but does allow that would that help any with could a study be done to see if that would help at all with the traffic such that it would be safer for the walkins that's a good point no right now one of the main reasons we could apply and it's possibly feasible that we could have a crosswalk across route fifteen to dickinson street is without making any real improvements on dickinson street is because of the very low traffic volumes on dickinson street so if we increase the volumes on then we can't do this other thing then we can do this other thing without providing a side walk in that sort of and this clearly addresses the more immediate issues that's the intent yeah to get something on the ground more than we have currently all right david yes i don't know if i totally understand what you were trying to say are you saying that if the traffic for example was opened up then you couldn't do what you're thinking of doing this current months if the volumes on dickinson street were any higher than they are right now then the only way we could when you have a crosswalk you need somewhere for the people to land there's a sidewalk on the other side of fifteen so because of the which other side of fifteen well the north side of fifteen around fifteen yeah so because the volumes on dickinson street are so low right now it looks like we could have a crosswalk at that location have the people land essentially on the shoulder of dickinson street without having to really do anything else to dickinson street because the volumes are so low when it's one way if that were to put the crosswalk itself correct if i may maybe difference in opinion clarification or whatever well a couple of things one on the sidewalk on the north side of fifteen it's now in the process of closely being built talking from palmer lane up through to the old underhill garage on the north side there was some study and some work done on the right side that couldn't be implemented at all thought or anything could come under that program we had to drop that after conceptual design because there was so much there wasn't much support for that segment so that didn't make it to engineering because it wouldn't fall under because of the engineering right i just wanted to about that part of the sidewalk okay that's my question on that part of the sidewalk but on the dickinson street process i don't know really where i'd start here i guess i would say my interpretation the dickinson street linda's brought it up a number of times we had a federal study and then we got into though we didn't dot our eyes across all the pds before that so like board of act we needed another study that we had done i forget the name of the last study it's not thirty forty thousand whatever and then vote come out of the whole situation after that was done i was under the impression that we possibly could move forward work out some kind of solution and then they did another sectual plan that tridelity stuff and that's a nice plan and you can say well we can't move forward because of the million seven hundred thousand you would have to spend but my feeling would be that the town should look at that study or whatever was drawn there or something to adopt long range which they just said right now there's nothing done other than that plan and all that they would look it over and say this might be the plan with exceptions or whatever then after the overall plan and you might look at they finally accepted the plan so then we could say okay and we could do this in x number of stages and so on and so forth to get it accomplished i think they've got to decide whether they'd like that plan long range or not of what plan they would have but in the interim it's kind of gone from one level years ago that we need to correct the traffic problems in that location whether i build there or not a traffic problem exists it has existed and it's existed for a number of years and the solution was gonna be that we open dickinson street should it be one way this way should it be that way now with the traffic study that was the last traffic study said that they could some streets should be open two way and so forth after that study came out i entertained thought to the select board that i'd like to meet with them here it's never happened for whatever reason but i'll say it again what i said now if i build nothing there i offered to the town that i have estimates to fix that road for two way traffic and so forth it was in state estimates and so forth it was in figures from tridel and another local company in westerns earthmoving and so forth so it's i think a fair estimate to do the job make it be looked at and so forth a figure to correct the traffic and add the twoway which is basically the same as the long route from long range plan b maybe three hundred thousand and if that was done i have offered and still offer to hear tonight moving forward and try to have some discussions in the town that i would do all the labor on that build that street for absolutely nothing except that they pay for the materials and so forth and they can have and i have one stipulation that tridel because they've done a lot of the engineering on this project as well as the land for myself storm water a bunch of things i have a better knowledge they are the engineers that you have that one stipulation but on the other hand you could have other engineers that check on them that's because they worked for me and we won't want a conflict or some other thing with the town but it could be looked at worked at plus they work for the town so i'm willing to do that and if the down drilling put up the materials and so forth to fix that and i is whether i ever build anything there or i don't that's because of the existing problem in the town to keep the traffic from going down by the schools with children and so forth and safe yeah well we've discussed that at length and we appreciate the offer but that's not actually what we're talking about right now what we're talking about i'm just clarifying what's gone on here and then to one more point but david this is a select board meeting and we have a lot of people here who are waiting to talk about other things on this agenda that we're already behind on so why don't you have this discussion with the gentleman if he wants to hear all this stuff outside or we'll set another time for you to come to the meeting and talk about what you would propose for dickinson street that's fine i'm willing to have a meeting anytime and i'm not trying to take up your time but if i can make just one quick point what mr palpy said that we had a solution before act two hundred and fifty that was acceptable that i don't believe was the outcome of the discussions at that time i just wanted to correct that for the record it's my interpretation all right so noted so do we agree that we should try and grab some money for some beacons and a feasibility study you guys wanna make a motion yup well a little bit we accept the staff recommendation and authorized submittal of a safe routes to school grant application for pedestrian safety improvements in the riverside area i'll second that all those in favor aye thank you todd coming up with that proposal and the next item on our agenda is the discussion with the mobbs farm committee is that right yeah that's right only twenty minutes behind but sorry about that if the board of members were having to discuss on the capital budget they included their trail where we had some questions about it and next thing to come in so here they are that's solved and can you guys introduce yourself real quick who's on the mobbs committee sure i'm heather furman i'm the former chair andy dumas harry kurtman excellent that's it yeah we are seven seven total and do you guys still meet oh yeah monthly or absolutely excellent what do you mean well i wasn't sure i don't know we haven't heard from you in a while we're down there and work on it and well i know you do work and i know you bring us proposals and all i wanted to know if you were having monthly meetings because you're not tasked with the giant charter or whatever you had to come up with right the original proposal from the select board was first to develop the manual plan which took us three years and basically we've just been implementing it and doing trail work and managing property okay excellent so we had a couple of proposals that came forward i know that the budgeting process is starting we had applied for some funding through the recreation trails grant program and that is wrapping up now we've replaced four of the five bridges on the property that fell apart over the last year between april two thousand and eleven and april two thousand and twelve all the bridges on the property collapsed and we've been really fortunate to get the grant and also had some support from the town to cover the material costs for those as part of that we also had an assessment done by two different organizations one was timber and stone and that assessment had i think eight different projects and we've done three of them using rec trails funding and then we also had a proposal request recently come forward from fellowship of the wheel they are offering their services to improve a lot of the trail that was damaged in the december of two thousand and ten minutes storm we lost a lot of trees on mobbs and the trail network was pretty heavily impacted by that wind storm and we were very fortunate to have volunteers and scott morel come out and help us to address the issues and get the trail network back open but there's been some rerouting of the trails that are located in places where it's really not appropriate to have the trail it's just because that was the easiest way to connect to locations but they're wet and not really supporting the use on the property so we currently have two assessments which both assessments include separate materials costs and labor costs and we have a total of ten projects now that we don't have funding for so our volunteers and the committee is doing a great job of trying to get as much done as we can with volunteers but we really need to address some of the trail infrastructure problems on the property we have a fifth bridge on the property that needs to be replaced it'll probably collapse this winter if we don't address it soon and then just some significant erosion issues that need to be addressed so the committee has not gone through the process to prioritize these ten projects that's kind of our next step and todd and i had started having a conversation about the budget and it sounded like you all had some questions about the posts that were developed i mean just real basic question is why don't we ask the fellowship of the wheel for some money they're a nonprofit organization that does a lot of advocacy work for mountain biking in chittenden county they are actually offering services to the but at cost yeah and we pay them for the labor and then they use the property for free let me clarify one thing i think there's a misunderstanding do as i read this the fellowship of the wheel is proposing to do all the labor costs for free and we come up with the no they want us to pay them the labor and the labor is the bulk amount if you look at this proposal it's like no material costs but project number two one thousand two hundred in labor to right the material budget says six thousand seven hundred the fellowship of the wheel so that these can be better mountain bike fields well like i said we haven't really had the opportunity to fully vet the fellowship of the wheel proposal it was just presented to us at the end of august we had other things on our agenda for september so i was going for october we had a trail day in early october so we haven't really had a chance to vet the fellowship proposal i will say that we've identified these as areas of priority for the trail network that supports multiuses it's not just about mountain biking fellowship of the wheel is offering their services as a consultant just like timber and stone did do the work on the property yes there's labor costs involved but we also the committee has put a lot of volunteer hours that help offset these labor costs and a proposal a final proposal that we would bring to the select board for funding projects would include primarily costs that would go towards payment of materials and then the labor costs we would look to cut that with volunteer support so in the past like we've been working with the vermont youth conservation for the last couple of years to replace the bridges the town is covering the material costs the uicc is volunteering some of their time but working for a little bit of the labor but we're also offsetting those labor costs with volunteers for moving bridge i confess i misunderstood this if i had been correct and the fellowship of the wheel were prepared to do this work gratis if we came up with the material that's obviously an offer we would have to take seriously but that's not the case and they're simply being a consultant like any other consultants then i don't want to denigrate it i'm sure their work is professional and knowledgeable but you know there are other people we can get this from and there's an inclination to do this on some kind of competitive basis who comes forward with a proposal and the conservation core has a track record with us so if it's just a proposal from a consultant like any other consultant i've done probably four hundred million of consultancies in my life i mean dealt with them side by side is just another one i understand what that is so i think we'd wanna have a meeting with your committee in some kind of forum in which we can get opinion on what's the best way to go forward maybe it's their priority list rather than just one consultant suggestion and it does bother us a little bit we're aren't really prepared to put forward a proposal yet and we've worked with timber and stone we've worked with this is presented to us to approve correct no in bringing the capital budget together my question to heather was does the mobbs committee potentially have any projects on the horizon that we could possibly plug into the capital budget and this was an example of some of the projects to come up with a number to at least start with that makes sense that makes perfect sense then you'll come back with all the damage that you've described all the work that's needed to be done i don't think there's a lot of argument we get down there not very often but probably every other week and there's no question you're right and there's no question things should be done and i don't think we have a lot of problem reserving a sum in the budget for doing some thing and if that's all you were looking at is that sum five thousand or fifty thousand or five hundred or is it five hundred we're doing even fifty it's hard i did some quick math here we have probably between thirty and fifty thousand worth of work that could happen at mobbs i think that's probably a little excessive for one fiscal year probably yeah several fiscal years that kind of work we had the committee can prioritize based on what's most urgent no this is just support for a notional sum yes beyond what our operating budget has been to maintain the fields we brought water to the fields and just to do basic infrastructure work on the property this is just to point out that we've done these assessments we've actually asked people to provide us with costs for the various projects that we've identified on the property and that the need is there this gives you an idea of what the cost would be and so it would be helpful if the select board would consider to hold a spot for us to be able to fund some of these costs in the coming fiscal year based on proposal that is more concrete than what i have right now that i personally speaking for myself i'm much more comfortable with that than what i thought we were being presented with i don't know if a motion is in order i think we're gonna be putting together the budget and this is calling into our attention to the need and the magnitude of the need and asking us to keep that in mind when we put the capital budget together yeah and i agree needs to be finalized in january yeah and right now there's eight thousand in addition to their normal budget how much eight what eighty eight i thought you said two if you understood the budget process you'd have known immediately that wasn't right it sounded like that but i'd know it wasn't which would buy all the materials for the fellowship of the wheel to do the work or maybe they load here the labor and they have to actually part of this process we'll just say has been to kind of reestablish a relationship with the fellowship and they have been very good at educating the mountain bike community about when the committee decides to close trails and try to manage for other uses and close the trail the trail network for hunting season they've been a great partner in these last couple of years in trying to get the word out and they've also sent us a lot of volunteers for our trail days over the year so they are entering a new phase of their organizational kind of structure in offering this consulting services and so they offered to supply us with this proposal and we were glad to have it since we have people here where are we on the gate there's something later on the agenda we finally were able to get the parties to agree on the negative easement language which had to be done as part of the agreement so later this evening i'm gonna ask you for permission to sign those easements in with that then we can start planning in earnest day to do all the infrastructure that's required in the spring can i personally say thank you very much for the work you're doing oh yeah absolutely now that i understand what you're doing i'm fully in support knowing that they gave in the fiscal year i just wondered where it was in the process so knowing you have a meeting coming up after that meeting if eight thousand realizing that any request isn't necessarily gonna be put in the budget but if you could let me know if that's a workable number or not then yeah we'll try we'll do with it actually and put on your letterhead is that beyond our kind of operations yeah it's above and beyond it's two separate pots of money okay great that's good to know thank you what's next i lost my agenda here oh there's my agenda thank you so next we're gonna discuss the jericho center speed study results with bob schermer yeah this is a bit of my fault i had been communicating with bob of the results and i thought it afforded him that he would actually be independent but i didn't so i told him i would put it back on the agenda we already have that actually i think no yeah i emailed him i don't know if you printed it off yeah somebody printed it somebody printed it cause we have copies yeah i made those thank you we have a couple of extras the history of this goes back and i know kim asked last time whether this was a sudden thing or whether this had come up big community began leaving in march and we had three different meetings wanting to discuss the issue in general two to actually walk and along with the engineer and todd to see what kinds of ideas they could come up with and three then to finally discuss concrete ideas so there were three different meetings involving about thirty five residents from the jericho center community and then finally todd and mike visiel i and john from the store actually looked specifically at the front of the store to see what possible solutions might be there i think that anecdotally anyway the increased policing has slowed traffic somewhat and the pedestrian the midstreet pedestrian walk signs have also contributed to some slowing in front my understanding is that the last meeting that because the speed has appeared to have dropped that the further traffic slowing measures that money for those will probably not come in the next capital budget that was too strong i think as one of the people who spoke at that meeting quite a bit i think you've over interpreted our reaction i think the reaction is more holy cow there's been more effects than we anticipated and therefore we ought to think carefully about whether we're gonna spend really large sums of money or at least whether we should do so quickly that there might be ways to increment since that relatively modest expenditure appears to have had an impact maybe we should approach this more incrementally but to say no there's not gonna be a twenty thousand speed table that's strong well actually it was because we talked about putting twenty thousand aside not for a speed table but for a real relook of the whole process and rethinking like that whole plan as opposed to just spending money on a speed table but this is we're not gonna spend money on a speed table we didn't come to that conclusion we've come to the conclusion that we might want to sneak up on this a little more gradually rather than suddenly but we were gonna spend money on a full look at the entire center in terms of really outside the box stuff because there has been a significant decrease in the speed through the center but clearly it's not where people want it to be particularly with pedestrian crossings and there and the outer sections i mean we recognize it's not perfect but out of means but there's been a great reduction but the idea is because these have made a difference we can continue with little bits while we do this larger study so that we can maybe rethink how you even approached the center on the design it needs to be engineered better and so it cost money in terms of maybe moving all the parking in front of the store and rerouting a road you know putting in a putting in a road a roundabout where the parking lot is i mean without changing the total amount of paved area not encroaching on the green itself in theory and it has dan nelson put a proposal whether the measurements are right and whether they work to meet code i don't know we don't know that the concept is a new one and is interesting and would possibly mean we don't have to put speed tables we would get the result from changing the flow of traffic and these are things that are worth looking at had the things we done had no impact there'd be a lot stronger feeling while we got to really crank up the the speed tables and what not to crank up the speed tables but since we see incremental actions resulting in incremental results maybe that means we need to do more of that let me try and express what my concerns are i remember it was mark twain that said there lies largely lies in statistics and one of the problems as i looked at some of the results of those studies was that yes eighty five of the traffic going by north of the score is traveling at twenty nine miles per hour or less what that doesn't say is that there are seven hundred and eighteen vehicles every day who are exceeding that yeah i take your point and it is those seven those are the kill your kids that i'm worried about as i go back i just didn't want the select board to sum i had this feeling with these statistics that eighty five sound probably we have not come to the conclusion that all is well no in fact only three or four days ago i was at the store when ingrid mom and his kid was nearly killed and it was really close that close kid was i might actually have been a hit but he managed to fall back the car stopped and he wasn't actually killed but it was that close and that's the one person that was going forty and the real bad thing was the visibility was poor so this person having decided they couldn't see very well decided quickly to go faster in order to get past before somebody pulled out or something like that and she was a young woman and she was devastated and crying and hopefully she'll never do that again but it wouldn't have helped with the kid who'd been killed so it's the one person out of a hundred not the ninety nine that'd beat the rule so that tells me we need solutions that guarantee that every single person not one not eighty five but one hundred and you can't get that with policing because the police can't be there all the time you have to get it with things that are unpleasant like speed tables but there might be other ways and nelson's proposal would possibly have a similar effect and you just couldn't go fast around this chicane all we're saying is incremental action did appear to have an impact we can't pretend it didn't and that suggests that we should do more incremental and not get revolutionary to yeah cause clearly at this point when it's time to repaint we can repaint the crosswalk make it more visible the one in front of the store and the other thing is with fog lines are wearing down and once those are out we can go ahead and restripe them inward which automatically makes people think the lanes reduce the speed again as well so these are small things that we can do while we're doing the larger picture because when we looked at the cost of what doing one speed table would be it's just huge against the cost of doing a and they don't last that long they wear down we thought the value is in a longterm study that we could actually rethink how the traffic actually flows through that whole center to make it again a more walkable community and the point which you're at your letter makes and many people have made which is away from the store there's a continuing problem so we have to deal with that all the points you make are well taken and your statistical points are welltaken we don't take this statistics imply everything's cool now we can forget about it we've done enough don't worry we do not take that as that i do think you overreacted and over interpreted where we got to last week and this is not gonna go away we're not gonna forget about it we're not gonna stop moving forward all we did say is maybe we don't have to take really big expensive steps right now maybe we can have incremental steps i agree with everything you've said what i would advocate for how i live i officially request that you in this i think it is a mistake for us to go into the winter with no visible crosswalk going across to this tour and i think that two things should happen that are not terribly expensive one there should be a y crosswalk very visible from roughly if you can do it that we're in the parking area is not way off the other side to the center of the store so that motorists get hint with this visual that says this is a crosswalk over to the store can you still paint at this time of the year it's one of the problems with where it is now is because it's stuck up there the vast majority of people including myself don't use it we walk in the middle i don't see it either as a motorist there is a sign at the side but you do not see the crosswalk at all and secondly that as you come from the south and north and pass the entrance of jericho center circle there so just before you get to the store if we could put one more pedestrian walks on there to take the motors before they get to that parking area so those two minimal things as we're looking at long range solutions no those were exactly kind of and i think that that's got we can move the whole line down i just don't know whether you can paint this time of year well i know you can paint it you can of course you can you can't like whether it'll stick on the road for the winter that's the problem i know that arizona in the winter i don't know when it's winter starts i would like to proposed that we consider that those are minimal steps they don't cost a lot of money i did just see a kid come within one eighth of an inch of being killed and personally he wasn't as far away as far as she is from me and that seems to be pretty minimal right and his point is hit because most people don't walk the crosswalk we walk right through the middle i just wanted to say i don't wanna sound cheeky here but you said you started by saying that the history of this and that the extensive history this will six months in terms of how we move with our traffic project i'm sorry but that is yesterday it's like we're town budget that's fast it is it's really fast it's like whoa well hey we would do a lot more on route fifteen if we were allowed or frankly six months whoa we got to talk about this and plan to plan it for at least three more years i'm only teasing i know and i know that things don't happen overnight i think that for the residents of the sander that they are aware almost on a weekly basis of either a car coming to a screeching halt or as you said somebody getting close to getting clipped and so there's this sense of urgency somehow that with you we are able to deal i sat out there for one hour from seven to eight o'clock in the morning on a weekday and we had six hundred and twenty seven cars go by and forty of which stopped at the store but the traffic is just amazing and the pity is of all the awkward spots in town almost all of them are outside our jurisdiction that's one of the few we can address and that frustrates we know and we have a lot of things to do i wanna thank you for the work and for pushing it forward and coming up with concrete ideas and understanding the constraints as they are and just for staying on it and sorry that it feels like we're not responding let me ask i'm gonna take a completely irresponsible straw polls sensitive meeting i asked todd what would happen if we asked the state to let us take over route fifteen and make it a town route thinking i was being completely off the mark just as an absurd idea that of course was ridiculous and he said he didn't think they'd jacked it off they mostly liked to get rid of their town that responsibility cause we don't have to maintain it and i'm not sure i actually liked that bargain as a whole but i think it's something given the importance of that road to the life of this town of course it's important to the life of other towns too but see this is our road it goes through our town right through it's the aorta of our town just with no responsibility nobody remembers nobody says what do you think of that it would cost us a bundle of money it would also generate some revenue i don't know whether the one matches the other but it would certainly because we could do things with it that would make i think maybe that would enable us to do would create development along on it it would generate development i mean there's a way of looking at it not as simply a through route make it as fast as possible get the people through who don't pay they don't contribute you could make that into something that was a little more that generated that helped stimulate development that would help the town maybe i'm not sure but it's not impossible and i'm not sure it's a good idea i'm not advocating this idea please i'm simply entertaining an idea it would among the other things that would enable to start doing things to deal with traffic that we simply can't do now and are very frustrated i think a lot of citizens that we can't do things todd you must have a pretty strong opinion about this because you worked for the village and the village is responsible for route fifteen there right yeah i worked for the town but the village took over route fifteen but they've been able to do a lot of things in a short amount of time because they own it it's been a good thing then they also have a larger budget yes but doesn't a lot of that money no it's really do not really oh that's interesting so maybe this isn't as crazy as i thought it was somebody has done it there's always tradeoffs you would likely need to add probably a plow truck if not the driver because i mean it's a super main artery that you have if clear not personally irresponsible for fifteen only so i mean they're cost based if ultimately you're looking to have control and be able to do what you would like and that's the way to do it might be worth it that's a longterm thinking process cool thank you before this discussion i had one thing i didn't hear about knowing that it's more important to fix the problems right at the store and everybody mentioned all the joes but as a resident who comes mainly into jericho center from the south there's still this slingshot effect as vehicles and drivers leaving jericho center get to the bottom of it it's like well we're in talladega and i think i mentioned it slammed on the accelerator and there's no site that's on site there you're absolutely right i thought i mentioned that even if we solve and we've made some breakfast with respect to the territory in front of the store three hundred yards out in either direction four hundred yards out either direction there hasn't been a lot of it there's been some lately but not much it's still a problem this is the number if you wanna look at the speeds the current speeds we still have people approaching the two crosswalks at the community center and that's where they slow down they're still close to thirty five miles an hour coming in from no you're right that's still better than it was in the nineties well that point is welltaken tom that point is well taken we haven't forgot that puddle mr valanou yes if i may kind of just ask a question or make a comment when the arp study was done and then it broke out in the end with some different committees and todd i hope you're listening to this really more of a question but one of the things that we were looking at in some of those committees i wasn't on it was the idea and it comes from the house of representative one of the people i think was on it there was a committee to look at the idea of taking over fifteen the pros and cons of them then you can have two and you got about what i got which is just they weren't ready when we had some of this stuff come to the overall i didn't realize that it would surface that was part of the is the arb thing and did it four committees that looked at one looked at i think the jolly intersection one looked at the park street intersection one looked at the gateway right and one look at taken over fifteen and i feel like i remember coming across my inbox it said not gonna happen did you say you worked worked for my husband i think he might've oh yes so i'd love to talk to him and see what they thought about it surface the email i'll ask him to forward that so they met for an afternoon or something like that or in the evening i think that the take over fifteen committee ended up being one or two people and i think it basically consisted of a couple of emails like email todd or email the state or maybe trans and said how does this work and then maybe the response was yeah you could have it as akasha boatload have fun i think that was then and then the whole that would be the time of that just repaint it kind of petered out and i gotta say it felt like we were doing good work and moving that conversation forward and it filled the whole thing kind of just wash away it evaporated well i will say the arp is a big reason why we're asking for the safe routes to school improvements i mean at least something's coming out of there i think for one more additional comment on the speed calming thing i think they need your name for the records dennis nelson i'm the one who's oh okay yeah so you're the one who gave us this list wow we should think outside the box well i think you should cause sounds very interesting it was very interesting yeah i'd like to see it go forward in some respect to the cut i don't pretend to be a traffic engineer at all but i was looking for some other solution that might help the parking for pedestrians as much as anything else i think the biggest issue is whether literally whether the thing like that can be engineered that meets all the codes and so on and so forth and i don't know that obviously we could that's why i put money aside for a study to see what we could take out of that have you seen that the oh yeah that was fast then the other question that comes up is the memories to the store and right these are things that have to be all kinds of that's why we need to study actually to think about how would you do this because that gives you a much longer term livability than a speed table and i like speed tables but it's not a holistic it's not a whole approach to the problem it's a span date it's annoying that's right that's it's sole view that's it's sole virtue we didn't let him finish yeah sorry cause we get so excited about your list but the only comment i was making as a very simple inexpensive expedient might be to take the speed limit sign that's on the incline and brown's trace going up again we're going from the north to the south up towards the fire station i believe that reads thirty five miles an hour right now and you know as a motorist you know your car is working hard to get the thirty five miles an hour and then you crest the hill and immediately we want people to slow down to twenty five so what i'm saying is why not just drop the speed limit sign on that hill section to maybe thirty or something it just takes five miles an hour off the speed that someone just gained going up the hill i mean it's simple enough and it might help a little your right mine would be a real question whether if they're going pay attention to it the problem is they don't pay attention to that cross but it's true if you're puttering along trying to get the you're putting the pressure on to get the so you're over thirty five by the time you at the top of the hill but catherine we're not worried about the five of the people who are dealing with as opposed to we're worried about this fifteen those are the ones that kill somebody and that's the problem there's a significant percentage the population is not paying any attention to the speed limit period unless there's a cop sitting there and it's not a statistical question it's a oneperson it's something physical with something physical than really close on that and speed tables are the extreme version of that but there are other things that actually slow people down speed limits they're really a better way to collect some money we pay for the study everybody else set with jericho center of speed issues can we move on to the next item which is the big one big one dennis thank you for that we really i wasn't sure how it will be received it was received very positively whether we can do it i don't know but it certainly stirred up the absolutely the other thing is some possibility beyond just throwing traffic to to the aesthetics of the town center definitely does there's no question it was appealing on a number of levels i actually understood that that's what you were talking about when you were here in person and i was excited about it then and then comments were misconstrued things went out on online discussion forums about how we were gonna pay for the green blah blah blah so what you did is you actually clearly drew in the lines and your proposal was something that we all could really understand and discuss she's smarter than i am i didn't realize that which she was saying i'm not smarter i was like oh that's an interesting idea so anyway thank you for taking the time if further on there's any need there i would be happy to contribute cool cool thank you land use yes so here we are purpose of tonight is to report back to you with the issues that were discussed oh geez i don't even remember when they were discussed two or three meetings ago with some recommendations on the policy level of where you wanted to go with issues that were raised assuming you said are those tonight then who would come back at your first meeting in november with the complete package with the changes that you assumingly would adopt and more to public hearing on or i believe i said it's december 6th and then you have that hearing and then adopter not the amendments so you look at the memo from jan what i will start with cause i think there's someone here from uvm perhaps yes the planning commission discussed on tuesday the issues that were raised your last that's not in here right cause this was prepared before they met yesterday tuesday actually and so they had discussed issue that was raised about the uvm requests and changes and what they would i'm sorry was this something that was discussed last evening yes can you bring me up to date please the uvm requests yeah it came to light that after the planning commission adopted their regulations and passed them on to the select board at some point in the past near the end of seth's 10year here there was discussions with the planning commission and uvm about possible changes to the open space district based on what uvm would like to do with the research forest and it appeared octobox yeah cause they wanted to do some structures it's mainly structures for educational purposes we don't really know for sure exactly what it is but what i've took notes is it said they want facilities to improve the classrooms the bathroom things like that we've never given us a master plan or anything that shows exactly what they want to do is but anyway so some language was worked up and then seth left and that never got back appears to the plane commission discussing it folded into these current amendments so the uvm their planner found out that it was coming here and saw that they weren't included so they want to just raise that issue and what the planning commission suggested on tuesday was that they would like the select board to keep the changes that are in the regulations now for open space during dealing with dormitories they think they should stay in and they will work over the next year or whatever it is the other changes that were discussed with uvm to be incorporated at a later time they didn't think it made sense to take out the proposed changes that were to happen there now they were limited to those dormitories i didn't bring my copy of that but i guess it doesn't matter what it says do you happen to have something that says british is i can go get it i'm realizing i might need it you know i looked at all the other changes with my copy but i didn't bring that where are my keys let me see if i can go get one quickly sorry in the meantime can i bring up another business your chair you can i talked to ann squires about the pumpkin and glow oh yeah and she's real concerned about not having traffic because she feels like a lot of people bring their kids through after they're in their jammies and you know elderly people like to drive through and they wouldn't wanna get out and walk and i agree with her she said what if somehow this buffet is a great idea what if somehow we just could distribute blinking lights like the kind that the police sometimes give out on halloween i don't know if you know what i'm talking about cause the real problem is when people turn lights off they can't see the pedestrians so all the people walking were given a little trick or treat light to hang around their neck even if there's a box where you drop it off on your way back out so the next person can use it i like that yeah and in fact i know that the essex police because i happen to be trick or treating in one of their really nice towns nice neighborhoods with a culdesac and the houses close together cause you get good stuff right they have police out and about handing them out already to all the kids so i don't know if that's something that we could just ask the state police to do and if they didn't we could spend fifty of the town money to buy these little lights sure that sounds like a great idea maybe you could do it with volunteers to distribute them yeah you just got to stand at one end of the you just stand and hand them to people yeah everybody comes in from this end of cilley hill and it's even possible that like hannaford has him to give away you know what i mean i've seen him before with a logo on them so you can have a sponsor a pumpkin glow sponsor have we ever been round the question of actually shutting down the cilley hill we talked about trying to make it a pedestrian thing so that there weren't the cars and the people at the same time and you know obviously for this year that's not gonna happen because i dropped well until now so her point is well taken that the elderly like to drive very slow cause they can't walk and then we have to figure out where are we gonna put all those cars and it's just another whole nightmare and that's a lot of kids who can't walk who can't walk there not really that's true even if it's bigger than that but not being able to walk well i wanted to make i was thinking it should be a oneway thing where you drive and you have to come out the other end but it's a lot of cilley hill yeah it's a hall it is a hall it is a hall really that's so way up on the other side of yeah it's really up too i know it's a hall but there's where you have is twoway traffic they all turn off their lights and then you have people walking on the road in the dark i think we are very certain about that not now i mean your proposal i'm absolutely in favor of it let's do it i'll make the motion if you want and proceed but i think we are good serious thought of making it well i can do what i can to try and find a source for these things but can we spend some of the town's money if it's gonna cost fifty to one hundred is that how much it's gonna cost or whether you get a sponsor we're not gonna have a meeting before well that's right halloween's coming up isn't it yeah so let's decide we'll spend up to a certain amount of money if necessary okay do you have any idea how much those little glow sticks cost cause you have little kids too i'll look into it cause you can buy yeah you can buy them online so shall we say one hundred and fifty bucks yeah that would be fine i move that we authorize the chairman to investigate the purchase and distribution of little blinky things not more than one hundred and fifty up to but not more than one hundred and fifty i'll second that awesome i'm gonna try and get them for free hey i'm thinking one of our senators is up for election and he likes to put his name on everything so maybe well good take the vote then we quit yes we do he made a motion because it's money i made a motion oh all those in favor aye we're all on records of supporting this outrageous irresponsible expenditure one hundred and fifty blinky things the only change was adding a dormitory hostel as a use did you read the whole section then sorry i mean just that paragraph or whatever it is i can read you the description of dormitory hostile cause that's the real part of the thing what it is so that's one that's not in here and that's been changed so that's gonna be in there but they don't want any of her other changes like whatever the issue is yeah they're not gonna incorporate anything else in at this time just stay with what was proposed to you in regards to the open space district and they'll deal with the rest another time next time right cause there is gonna be another iteration obviously right so the one that's in here now in regards to open space district is additional the use of a dormitory hostel which is an overnight lodging facility offering temporary lodge educational programs and or other goods and services to members affiliates or partners lodging still not exceed thirty days in a fourmonth period with no more than fourteen consecutive days i think that was her problem is that the timeline didn't work is that correct that would be true by the way it's really four year and i work with lonnie i'm a planner as well and sort of filling in but i think the concern at that time was that fourteen days for a dormitory would be hard to fill the dormitories so we can house somebody for fourteen days but we're not objecting to this at all like we think it's probably a better approach to wait and start over again with the planning commission and i think they encouraged her to send a letter if i'm not mistaken right to reintroduce those needs that the university needs up there at the jericho research are you sure any sort of master plan that they may have that wasn't done before it's just for i think it's nice to have if there's any there wasn't much nervousness it was pretty clear that we were comfortable with that solution that had been arrived at and lost but it would be even more comfortable if you had an actual plan of what was gonna be built it wasn't openended or at least work with the planning commission to what you need i think that's what they suggested to lonnie that she put that information together and come back again we missed the boat we weren't on your schedule watching when these amendments were being worked on so we're happy to come back and she'll put it together and this will work for you in the interim then i think it will cause rather than totally eliminated that's good okay go ahead so and go through the issues here the first one concern that was raised was this addition of language about accessory structures of not being able to have a small accessory building associated with residential use that was more than a hundred percent of the gross floor area what is the gross floor area is that all the floors or just the footprint no it's the square footage the gross floor area so if you have a three story house it's three times the footprint right so the recommendation is that proposed change just be dropped there they have yeah that makes sense that they worked with what they were trying to cause i think it was the quantity that one of the members was actually concerned about more than anything on point right so good i can build that ballroom i've always wanted oh yes and you don't have to tear out your living room like a friend of ours has done well this is an accessory structure it's the tango i'm gonna give tango lessons saturday night okay so the next one was drive throughs and the first part of that is where a drivethrough as an accessory use could be allowed in the current draft it's allowed as an accessory use in all districts it became a real issue what the select board the options they have are to obviously just leave it as it is you could place restrictions you could limit the actual areas if you wanna allow them in any districts you can limit those districts that they can actually occur in and then you could or you could choose not to allow them in any district and then a separate discussion if you allowed them anywhere then you know what sort of primary use are they allowed to be tied to because obviously you don't have just to drive through that that's the accessory when do you want us to discuss this cause obviously i have something to say but now i'm just telling you that uses your i think it would make sense at this point to put a moratorium on him for silver reasons one even in the discussion they said that they needed to go back and talk about whether they wanted to just limit it to certain things this gives them the opportunity to more research the other issues have to do with all the stuff with ecos and the new regional plan because it's gonna be very important for the planning commission to really think about how they want the town to grow to be a sustainable library community because the idea behind the new regional plan is that eighty of all plannings going to take part on fifteen of the growth districts just the growth districts so that if you put like a house in the rural you better have four structures in the growth district to keep it to the eighty and that's because they're trying to really concentrate so you really wanna make sure you're building your growth district the way you want it what is our growth district we have our little threevillage growth districts the villages are the growth districts well the village centers we have our designated growth districts so what about all the commercial property that's part of your growth well the commercial properties aren't in the village it's the villages and the commercial areas but that's where eighty of your growth is supposed to happen so that it's a pretty radical change from the way it happen before well actually that they did the history and that's historical growth patterns and they're trying to get up till when up till the last thirty years exactly so they're trying to get back to the historical like the way it's been i've been growing for thirty years they're training it back to the history because the idea is for us are we gonna start a milling company at the mill i mean are there going to be industries in the mill it's whatever you want but i'm saying that's why i'm suggesting a moratorium on the drivethrough so that people can decide how you want you're what you're really looking for in your town rather than really start thinking about this cause this is actually going to be happening the answer to your question is no that's what i'm saying why do we wanna increase i'm just talking about drive through the concept she had is concentrate development i understand the concept it doesn't mean that every that the growth areas can be used for anything you don't build factories in our village center that's not gonna be appropriate well no you're misunderstanding maybe where i was going with it which is that i think people should live close to other staff so when that was a mill and these little houses came up around the mill that makes perfect sense now there's nowhere to work i see what you mean there's nothing there except and that's what the idea is to push more and more people to your centers and to bring the commercial support that goes with that but that's why i'm suggesting but that's the idea that's why i'm suggesting the moratorium i drive through it so those people the public commission actually has time to really think about what's going to make our vibrant communities what do we wanna see how do we wanna see it because this is really gonna be a limiting factor the other issue is we are on the state under its comprehensive energy plan wants us to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by fifty by two thousand and twenty eight and they can't do it without chittenden county and chittenden county can't do it without the municipalities and as part of the ecos regional plan we're gonna have a climate action plan and that also will give so it gives them also i'm trying to give them time to think about the research to find out how much greenhouse gas emissions do you have for eileen under specific kinds of drivethroughs we talked about this at length and i know where you're coming from but i'm on the fence with this because i filed a very valid point that people drive out of their way to get to businesses that's why i want them to hate the time i'm not saying it's forever i'm not saying forever i'm saying a moratorium to develop these ideas to get a plan to get a plan where we want them what we want it to be cause they even said they needed to think about do they do restaurants do they do banks so you can do the research to find out how much greenhouse gas of this uses comes from banks or from you know so you really have to but that's not the only factor no it's the greenhouse gas emission but it's gonna be the regional plan you've got the regional plan that has to deal with where your growth districts how you want them to develop all these things are coming together in the next year also there's going to be formbased zoning and that gives them another tool to figure out what they wanna have and how you wanna put it so that might be another way of looking at a structure that has a drivethrough so when you say moratorium you mean we should go with the third option that todd proposed which is no drivethroughs at all in any district for any reason for the time being and then we come back with two years or something and then they can come back with these really great results cause there's all this new stuff coming in in terms of formbased zoning and stuff so you can have ideas of it could look much more like a european town but you'd still have a drivethrough right that'd be a different guy of drives through b ut it'd be different than a through that's what i'm saying so we really can get an idea of how we want our town to grow to be this vibrant community that we want it to be i'm not saying never i'm just saying let's yeah i'm not anti drivethrough at all and i don't think there's much evidence that the idling a we don't even know that there is well let me finish the idling it produces more toxins than the extra trips to get there's statistics on some of that but you have to get it so i'm just saying this gives time to actually look at all those numbers because i mean you're right greenhouse gas emissions the most impact we can have is to reduce the vehicle miles traveled which is what we're trying to do with the bus is to increase the mileage of the fleet and increase the amount of electric cars i mean that has to be we want development we want the money in this town we want businesses to go to in this town so that we don't have to spend all our money and assets in south burlington i'm not sure if driveins are positive or negative about that i'm not sure either i'm just saying but that's why i'm trying to give them the time to think about what the new plans are to just let's say let's go with not doing anything right now with drivethroughs to really fulfill what this will look like i've been a bit agnostic i'm not ideological and drop it right through it's either way i just don't think we've fully vetted i think catherine has a point about we're really not sure where we want to go with this so why make decisions that you can't back out on yeah i understand i just didn't want it to be like a statement about drivethroughs no i'm just saying this gives the them time to do research and things like that really fully think about what we want our community cause you're right we wanna be able to live and shop and stuff in our community but there's all kinds of things gonna be happening including formbased zoning which will make this really charming little village and you can shop and do things and stuff like that walk around walk around sure i'm not saying get rid of it i'm just saying let's think about it figure out how to do it best all right so it sounds like there's a consensus on that yeah i think so okay number three was there were some comments regarding the natural resources staff is proposing that you hold off on any of those comments until the next round because the planning commission had planned on taking up natural resources issues in fact that's a great idea my husband actually mentioned it after i talked about this and he said tom has actually talked about this for years is that the planning commission does not use our advisory committees when they're doing these things that the first time they ever get to hear any of this stuff is when it comes to public hearings which is we have the advisory committees of the energy task force and the natural resources committee and the planning commission should be using them conservation commission you mean yeah conservation commission because it actually gives the planning commission actually more resources because especially the conservation commission right now they have a lot of actual real expertise there and that's what the advisory committees are for and they should be used by the planning commission to help and state statute says that with the energy coordinators forest will provide input to the planning commission so i don't know it hasn't been done in the past i was the drb when i was chaired did use the conservation commission as an advisory as we needed it but i don't know do we just give a sense of the board or just say they should be using them cause they should that's what their role is and they don't hear about it until it comes to public hearing which doesn't make sense yeah we can communicate that back or we will communicate that back okay fuel sales so the first one was to remove the fuel sales as the only specified use that's under pud so we're suggesting to remove fuel sass from pud cause it just doesn't really make any sense the discussion that they had last time made sense in the definition of fuel sales there was reference to in the village center and since they're no longer permitted in the village center it made sense just to remove the reference to in the village center and so then obviously if you were taking out the pud section that you have to take it out of the definition of planning unit development and so these are essentially the technical clarifications correct darry do you have a question i just remembered something about the discussion about needing to go back and look about someone with one of the select board members asked about that something needs to remain in there retroactively do you remember that discussion about the fuel sales thing that i thought todd was going to go ask yes it didn't have to check so that was it sounds good and fuel sales landscaping requirements something that staff caught that you may wanna consider if you want to disregard it that's fine it's just that and we caught this cause it came up recently in a drb hearing there's a proposed change in the landscaping requirements and the sentences in red which that is currently being proposed for deletion and it's an evaluative landscaping requirements credit may be granted for existing tree cover or for site improvements other than paintings as long as the objectives of this section are not reduced i think the discussion from the plank which is how do you put a value on the existing landscaping you can't really do that so we should take it out the staff thought it was important to keep in because you wouldn't want to see someone remove any existing tree cover if it is valuable just because they're gonna have to make way for something else because they're required to spend so much on landscaping and it's discretionary that the drb doesn't have to consider the existing vegetation they can if they feel necessary perhaps i'm thick but it's the only place where an actual quantity is three so that's of the new construction improvement costs i read that which you do know the cost of i know what they're saying is how do you put a value on the existing tree cover or site improvements to say well you know the construction cost is a hundred thousand so three of that you need to spend three hundred or whatever on landscaping and they have some trees what are the values of those trees oh i see the three is not new it includes whatever's there already the drb has the discretion to say what you're proposing to do isn't disturbing the existing i have to say this is the way i read the language so it seems to me is the problem that doesn't exist you've got a solution to a problem that doesn't exist i would read this for all site plans the drb may require a minimum planting costs of up to three of total construction improvement costs that to me says you're spending three hundred and fifty thousand you have to spend three of that on landscaping and whatever's there before doesn't count this is new new three expenditure of your new correct and what the drb can do is in that sentence in red which is proposing to be removed but the drb can do is say well they can take it they can take into account the existing vegetation i got it so the planning commission wants to remove that until they figure out how you value it well what they are trying to say is how do you put a value on it you never can they just simply say we think this needs another ten thousand worth of stuff in order to make it presentable but that's on top of the credit makes no sense they don't have to just cause there is existing tree cover they're not bound to count that towards the three what they can do is say if it's an extraordinary existing landscape and why make you do more if you think this is appropriate take it out makes no sense that's right okay good that's what we wanna bring up makes no sense if they want them to spend three more money than that's new money on top of whatever happens to be in place now and that's if they don't want to make them spend it and they don't make it bad it's there that's fine you're right that sentences is there right is pointless and redundant okay and then the public versus private shoes it was brought up that there was an error really and just the two words were the same the two words right so that's it so what we'll do is we'll come back with these changes in the final document at the next meeting if you don't want a public hearing well that's when it will be proposed that's what we do that's what you do catherine i think you were wrong because tim was chair in august so september october november it's three months no we go four months no we go three months remember we started in the middle of march so it's march april may june july august you were chairs september october november this is october he's gonna chair next month oh okay yep so that's two more months then december january february yep cause you said i was done tonight right i thought we'd done tonight yeah exactly just thinking about thanksgiving already you get another month you get another month oh goodie yeah you're right i was giving you extra credit job you stayed this long was there something you were here for about the land use actually next year it's gonna be very exciting for bylaw construction on natural resources and part of the longterm ecos project because they had done research in all the town plans and zoning and found how much flowery language we'll have but how little teeth anybody had or how inconsistent the language was and that's one of the things that is going to be beefed up in a regional plan and because of this focus on the land use plan where the growth is the new focus is gonna be on developing how to preserve our working landscapes and the natural resources and things like that so you probably you and your commission will be busy helping with that next year job the full membership there'll be it'll be easier to make sure that somebody gets to every planning commission meeting where that is part of that discretion so looking forward to that very good thanks so for the budget at this point what i wanted to do is show you how the revenue side was looking at this point and then i plan on bringing a few departments at a time and okay so it wasn't a mistake that the expenses stopped yeah i know i went back to the website to see did i drop something other than in the subject of the memo i guess it wasn't really clear about what it was so not really a whole lot of changes in the revenue i've mentioned all the changes here in the memo i'll just hit on the biggest ones line number eight we're anticipating a class two grant to cover goncalo works so we're budgeting that one hundred and seventy five thousand in revenue grant revenue nine twenty increasing the anticipated law enforcement funds of ten thousand from what we had budgeted previously it's still below what our actual was for last year so i feel it's pretty safe and this is just a projection i mean it's a budgetary projection yeah right but it's it's a safe it's an expectation based on historical numbers right and line twenty five is slight increase in recording these two come a little closer to what the actual spend just because it looks like with interest rates continuing to be low for awhile that we'll probably continue to have prefinances reduction in less than a thousand dollars of a merge license revenue i think we ought to make a push to get back revenue item up marriage yeah i think we should do that by advertising that we are a friendly home base for gay marriages all of them come here and pay you a thousand dollars get married in mills river yes through the gazebo it cost a thousand dollars you wanna make some money or not but we don't have any facilities we will i haven't built my ballroom yet it's a joke the tango tell us i think i like that we're in thirty three an increase in i was like olivia olivia did you actually know this is a fact that vermont is the number one state for destination weddings i know yeah we have some good gay friends in philadelphia who want things passed like this it's not even that there are straight people who come up here because everybody who lives in connecticut and new york they think they want this quaint thing but they don't necessarily want to haul everybody too far away this is driving no they gave us a call but as soon as it was passed here we wanna come up and arrange the whole thing at your house will you have us and they say of course we'll go oh awesome awesome that's great we'll go with whose in charge here so line thirty three the increase in snowplowing revenue we did at the end of last winter increased their rates by a good portion that had been discussion at town meetings or we raised them as much as we thought we could get anyway and then why is there two dollars in the town library to see if you're paying attention i don't know but i don't have their revenue projections yet so you can ignore me i just wondered dummy and went well okay attracting a really dismal year for their books and regular use no i don't have their numbers yet so you can put this here for this you have the budget from fy the school year oh look at here yes number thirty four cause it says fiscal year thirteen we have zero and then we have two vikes let's see here and then we get to the use of the reserve funds this is where you can see the capital budget tying in the first one you come to is open space fund that's eight thousand we're talking about for the mobbs projects above and beyond their regular project correct correct to do their projects with which they can't find out where did you come up with that eight thousand their last year's request no that trail proposal that you weren't here no you were here for that meeting i had asked them to give me an idea of some projects they would did they have any projects and give me an idea of some of the projects that you had to come up with a not justifiable number to put in for projects that are above and beyond and that's when she gave me the fellowship as an example of the type of work to come up with a dollar figure the total of what that proposal was it was like sixty seven so i just plugged in the numbers but she said tonight based on the consultant the actual timber and stone that they had come through plus they're looking at anywhere thirty to fifty thousand worth of trail actually that was a really broad estimate based on cause that consultant that proposal some of it's already been done and yeah but some yes but he'd asked for a broad and everything's still drafted it's just a working well and it's only five hundred more than we funded some of those bridges this past year well that seven thousand five hundred is actually for the parking lot yeah that's right it's the parking lot finally get through and we put money in when we did the transfers we did put money into the open space fund land improvements so that's is there any reason why we wouldn't put in parentheses mobbs repairs under oath that line item well you'll have that in your budget when you have your full budget you'll have what we're doing with that yeah what you're doing with it but i mean for when it gets printed yeah right cause what you'll see is actually we did it last year in the capital budget description we put the line item that referred to in the jet in this budget so they could hire and you'll have a description like you have now but i don't want to put it in the budget presentation because then it just gets messy so further down the sidewalk and past fund that's twenty thousand for the comprehensive pedestrian bicycle plan for the town that's coming out of the sidewalk and past fund the forty seven buildings and property fund that's a placeholder for painting and repairs to the exterior of the town hall we have some feeds that have holes in yeah they were supposed to have been painted when the town hall was renovated they never got up to it and then forty eight is from the road improvement fund twenty thousand for the jericho center reconfiguration planning whatever you wanna call it and then also plugging in two thousand five hundred for goncalo improvements as part of that package it's up to fifty no forty five you just said twenty five and twenty five no i said twenty and twenty five oh i'm sorry i heard you wrong that's fine and it's possible we might not need to spend that much because these are both planning projects we'll put them in a request to the rpc for technical assistance projects which would mean we'd only have to pay twenty i would dearly like to not spend twenty thousand for planning when we've just had a citizen beat us up for not spending twenty thousand on an actual physical speed reducing item it looks a little bit with saying we don't we think twenty thousand for speed tables a bit much but then we're spending twenty thousand on planning you said that that gives you a longterm view where as you said the night you said the nineteen thousand wears down yeah just think of the optics of it catherine yeah i know well that's right we will try not to spend that much but that kind of planning costs that kind of money i understand whether if we wanna look at that idea then it's gonna cost money i understand but spending twenty thousand on planning and then not spent the same twenty thousand you put a spend on something that actually for sure reduces speed but it looks a little bit except it turns out when you looked at my wiesel's thing one wasn't enough you needed three and not everybody's in favors of them no no although quite a few but you're right i'm just concerned everything will look a lot better and we'll all be better served if we can not spend twenty grand on this thing if we can find somewhere i would like to not spend that much but we will but if it's on a project that you wanna do and there's no grant funding for it you gotta be here but this so it's gotta be here cause you can't do it then we always look for other ways to have it paid for that's it right have somebody else spending somebody else's money that's what i'm saying and then just to know as i'm doing the expenses and past budgets i had included a salary increase as i'm doing it this time i'm not it's that because we need to decide on that later or you're not gonna recommend one or i don't know at this point i'm not recommending one but at all not even like a caller there isn't much inflation right at this point i'm not i mean the board can always do something different but that's the approach i'm taking to the budget have you seen the number for this time than ninety million social security it's sixteen cents no it's eighteen in money sixteen eighteen of this is the regular inflation no eighteen is the caller for sort of security which is like twenty a check oh is it that much yeah a monthly check yeah for yeah that was correct i mean you obviously have plenty of time to discuss it but that's the approach rather than starting one my main reason for concern the inflation is so low and most people feel this is a pretty good job but what worries me is about getting behind where you don't do it and then you got to have a five increase and a five increase looks terrible if it comes along at a time when other people are suffering so i feel uncomfortable falling behind i feel uncomfortable not giving any increase at all unless there's a good reason not to i think it's kind of a slap in the face to not have any increase i think we're on the same side okay so it would be what makes sense two one and a half there's no standard it's a decision but i think we're all uncomfortable with zero for various reasons we have different reasons let's think about what it ought to be well as i go i'll prepare scenarios it's very easily with the spreads which i have set up to spit out a one of two whatever percent you want and let's do one and a half and a two cause one half gets you around the caller very good so that's all i kind of feel like no increase is almost like leaving no check you only do that when the performance is bad i mean leaving a tip leaving no tip on service or a financial or financial hardships i mean we didn't when times are bad and you don't wanna go out and tax people for it there are lots of reasons but there has to be a reason not just for the hell of it so you're not gonna go through the rest of the page and just just there because it's just the way it prints off but i don't wanna go through the revenue okay cool so let's approve the minutes for august 18th that was just you and me tim and i read them over and they looked fine to me do i hear a motion to approval i hear a motion move to approve the minutes i will second that all in favor aye i make a motion to approve the minutes of october 4th with let's see or maybe i didn't anyway i'll make a motion to approve the minutes all in favor i assume you second that yes all those in favor aye well i can't write happy business i have some other business i've got one business item and that is as i mentioned before authorizing me to sign the easements related to the mobbs farm parking lot settlement do you need a motion yes i make a motion that todd sign the easements for the mobbs farm easement settlement remind me exactly what they are we've through it and i know it's okay but i wanna be reminded we agreed to not expand the parking lot as it was approved beyond the negative whatever this phase for thirty years but no longer than that individual actually lives there so whatever is shorter whichever is shorter okay i remember it's gone if they don't if they stay there forever i forgot what a negative easement meant in this context it's agreed to not do something as opposed to being able to do so well we can go up to twenty if necessary so i made that motion i second it all those in favor aye and so last night the working draft discussion of the ecos plan went to the regular rpc meeting after spending a long time discussing it at the executive committee and the process is they will be coming to visit us to talk here about municipal concerns or any questions we may have on it i believe now in december it's going to go to the eco steering committee next week and they're gonna talk about some more changes but then it goes to in january to the final eco steering committee where it then becomes the rpc and what's interesting is even last night at the regional planning commission there were some commissioners who went oh is this really gonna become the regional plan they didn't connect that it's a totally new document cause it's gonna incorporate the regional plan the mtp and the gpic economic development plan all in one thing and then so they forget to realize that money will flow according to this exactly and it's going suddenly it's serious business the developed land use plan development map that they're using comes from all the town plans where are the group districts and stuff but this is going to be the way that the act two hundred and fifty hearings and in the appendices you're gonna have the full mtp documents the full economic development documents all the criteria that was used to develop ecos as well as the climate action plan that will be added to that the talks about how we're going to reduce our greenhouse gases the ecos project is also going to actually give us parameters and targets so that we can measure each year how we are doing with our plan whether we're meeting these goals of can i first of all what does eco stand for it's oh god i always forget that it's environmental community opportunity sustainability because it comes up how do you make a sustainable community okay well i know what it's about i just didn't know the actual symbol now it comes a question this is now moving to produce the kind of document upon which in our case tens if not twenties and thirties of millions of dollars of federal money will move that's the mtp yeah i mean it always comes that way it'll be other moneys are grants for sidewalks and stuff is this gonna right and those are all gonna change too based on what the feds are doing but yeah but this is a whole new it's gonna hold right because in looking at the grants that come through if you first look at it and go oh but then you realize okay this is what the new document is because it's talking about food insecurities workforce training issues i mean it really is all kinds the rubber hits the ground the dollars start moving here instead of there so what i'm to suggest to todd i'll also pass it on if he can pass it on and i'll send a note to jennifer as well but i think it would be well advise the planning commission look at this document to see because also the accd grant that funds the regional planning commission wants the regional planning commissions to look at town and look at their municipal plan and look at their zoning and see if there is a disconnect between the two and what needs to be done to make sure there isn't that disconnect so there's a lot of things that are gonna be happening so it makes sense if the planning commission looked at the vehicles grant and got their input in before it becomes this is fascinating yeah it really is well it's fascinating and i think a lot of people are gonna wake up and discover some horses are out of the barn that they haven't realized absolutely because you look at this whole thing on here's the planning commission that we've always dealt with planning and now we've merged and become transportation as well and all of a sudden we're dealing with all kinds of human issues probably different stuff the education the food insecurities the refugee issues it's all a whole big new package that we're going wow and you're right taking on a whole new meaning it is it really is you're right when commissioners are waking up last night and go this is the regional plan cause it looks so different that's interesting i like that that's kind of what the transportation research center is all about was taking that old traffic engineering part of what people think of as road plant or engineering and really making it a study of sustainability the principle is really a great thing the issue being old and having scars i discover over time that almost everything gets gamed the old planning systems have been gained and have sort of ceased to be anything more than a mechanical way to hand money out to people who are good at playing the game it's good to stir those games up as a matter of principle it's sturdy to shake them up and this is shaking them up for some rather good things in fifteen years it'll be gained but in the meantime i think maybe some cool things will happen there's some very exciting ideas coming out so it must surface with wifi hello starting next summer the beginning of a whole new world i know cause i can even come and take the bus downtown and do something cause i won't drive well and i'm saying my office is at one church which is literally like a couple stores down from champion cherry where the deep buses go so i literally am gonna be able to like hop on it when i grew up when i was a little kid during world war ii we lived in ten fifteen miles at town we had no car most people have no car and we went to town by the bus and the bus came by i would say every forty minutes there so it was very usable more or less anytime you wanted you got on the bus when you had to come home you came up it was an old world cost ten cents we lived in rochester new york should we adjourn yes i would make a motion in turn and then we can i'll second that all those in favor aye when we lived in rochester new york