okay in conjunction with this process here again i'm going back to what you had said earlier you were also going to keep an eye on the criteria and the way things are going with the economy and some of the other things which means you may have to keep reprioritizing to go along with the conditions at the time of just everything in there sure sure okay everybody hear that just because of changing conditions we want to be cognizant of that as we proceed with the plan to make sure that those kinds of influences are considered as we plan is that fair yes yes yeah so the thing to keep in mind is obviously this is a long range plan so even the recession as painful as it was for a lot of people is kind of a blip on the radar screen it's going to take some areas longer than others to get out of that it certainly has had a profound impact on how some development is done and will be done in the future and i think we talked about that tuesday night the changing face of commercial for example how overbuilt so many communities are and developers are starting to rethink that the demand for commercial the type of commercial and that's one reason why mixeduse development is becoming more popular because commercial is being scaled down and offices and residential are being added to make the projects more viable but yeah we certainly will be looking at that and that's one reason why we did the market study is so we would have some understanding as we move forward what is reasonable and what isn't you know so many communities do a plan without benefit of really understanding how much need or demand there is without looking at surrounding communities you know if we were just looking at peters township in a vacuum and not considering southpoint we might be inclined to say well you know we could support a big office research industrial park here which isn't feasible so understanding the market conditions helps us to stay fairly well grounded and come up with a more implementable plan sure i guess just watching the news constantly it's amazing just even with the commercial businesses how some of the giants are talking about cutting back the number of stores they have throughout the country sure and i'm sure that would have an impact on a lot of areas like ours throughout the country because when you're closing stores that also hurts the community it does but it can also be an opportunity and we worked with some communities where they one in particular that i can think of they had two big box stores sidebyside both went out of business and they came to us and said okay do us a plan figure out what we do with whatever it was forty acres of parking lot and vacant buildings and they reinvented that whole area into more of a community center with recreation entertainment some small retail but you know who would have thought ten years ago that national chains would not exist anymore but again going back to one of the examples that matt showed it can be an opportunity because right now the big box is the focal point kmart is the focal point in that shopping center but twenty years from now that could be totally different so we want to keep an open mind about what the possibilities might be yes sir thank you very much one thing about um and all the models were impressive you got chits and color codes and everything else and one thing that wasn't mentioned was taxes on what the implications that your various strategies would do the taxes i'm sure that would have an impact in adoptability yeah this one right now part of what we're doing if you remember from the tuesday night presentation the trend development scenario now so if you just do nothing and build out under your zoning your annual shortfall is about three hundred to three hundred and fifty thousand if anyone is really keeping a close watch of their tax bill that's about a mill millage one mill of increase tax or you could do and to try to offset some of that but right now you are running a deficit each year and using reserve funds to cover that so as part of this as we as we dream up other things that's going to be one thing we look at is are we closing the gap are we lengthening in the gap where do we fall in that yes taxes are very important in this plan has any thought been given to marketing peters township now you talk about a tax shortfall yeah we have a great library over here mm hm that would cost millions to duplicate in any one of a number of surrounding communities correct finley bibb i could go on why don't we market our library to these communities and of course be able to receive some compensation for that market we've got a community center which serves approximately five of the population of this township i have yet to see a wedding ceremony or a wedding party over there i mean that's a facility that could be generating income and producing income that could offset that tax increase that you're talking about has any thought been given to marketing peters township services there hasn't been any conclusions on that yet but there's no reason that wouldn't move forward matt sorry to interrupt you can you please just summarize again sorry sorry the question was has there been any thought given in the planning process today about marketing some of the assets you already have like the library like the recreation center and things like that is that correct yes okay and my answer started by saying not at this point but that's what the planning process is all about we start very high level and we continue to get focused and refine and that's one of those things that is as paul continues in the process that that should be brought up i will tell you because we work around the country that is a very successful strategy that we've seen others use and what that means is you need to create well a brand and identity of peters township and what it is and then you need to go sell it right so not only would you there's some towns i used to work with in texas that they would create packages of all the assets of what they offered and they would go to those trade shows and that and they'd have a booth that talks about why they're great you know there's no reason you couldn't do that on a smaller scale with your community assets trying to compete in here because let's be very honest with ourselves while we need to be friendly with our neighbors for economic development sometimes you're competing with your neighbors right so it's friendly competition i hope but you need to put your best foot forward in order to capitalize because when somebody does site selection and they come and see what you have to offer make it as easy as you can for those people to get the information even planning services for those less wellfunded communities would be not only a boom to them in developing those communities but also a boom to our community through generation of income and offset it because he the young man in the front row is dead right taxes are going to be a problem as more of us get older and that's happening i think there's more aarp cards in this audience than there are anything else and taxes are certainly something that potential home buyers look at we're in competition for new homes with places like north strabane and other communities we've got to remain competitive and certainly that boils down to in many ways taxes and services most more services at the least possible cost that's the winning strategy it is just to add to your point about marketing the library i think that reinforces the idea of strengthening this as a town center and giving people an opportunity to do something more than just visit the library but create public spaces for events provide more shops and things to do so that they can play off one another and there's a reason to come here and stay for awhile well if i may say something when we were doing our petition we went on we have a trail night and it was it gets quite busy but we didn't get many signatures because most of the people were coming from other places to walk the trail so i do view our trail and that was a focus in our group our trail was a big asset to our community and i think it really needs to be developed yeah i think a lot of groups said that did the whole audience hear that that the trail's a large asset yeah yes just a quick question ah in all the other workshops which i wasn't a part of i'm just kind of wondering about the the type of transit with areas in conjunction with what you're talking about the other day parking is going to be an issue in some of these areas especially you know if you have a big facility and a lot of people need to get to are we thinking ahead and how we can maybe bus people have a transit system at our area which we i don't believe we do have one to get around maybe from the senior centers to the town center the store whatever the case may be or maybe some of us want to meet into some of these other new areas you're talking about as a model to see what they're all about we don't have to use our car you don't have to worry about the parking problems and stuff like that is there some discussion in that area or thoughts um the question was about transit and what level of dialogue was there on transit and what were any conclusions that occurred and the like is that correct mmhm okay um if i'm thinking back through the four events i would say that that the discussion on transit was probably lukewarm at this point there were people who wanted it and then there were people who did not want it so the answer falls somewhere in between the resources are on the team to look at transit as part of the process continuing but transit is successful when you have riders and riders it's simple right and riders are generated a lot of times by density and by use so like all coming together so what happens in this reminds me of a project that i did in memphis tennessee where everybody wanted light rail transit so like the station at the library now that y'all know where that is the light rail station people are like can we extend that can we extend it well this happened in memphis and they said we want the light rail extended but we only want to have you know three units an acre and they said well look it cost me this much to build that technology so in exchange you have ridership i need at least this many riders to be there and the density wasn't there some general rules of thumb like for for light rail and ones with a park and ride you want like twenty five units an acre is that what you're using so i mean very dense dense types of developments so the reason i'm saying that is when it comes to transit we need to make sure we make make sure our transportation technology and our land use decisions are one in the same so if we want transit and you know i'm not saying either way but if we want transit then we have to have a discussion about what land use patterns and densities will allow that if we don't ah if we want to have a certain land use pattern and development density within the community that does not support transit you need to know that's the case so that you understand why transit providers might not be knocking down your door to give you transit i mean there's all different levels you know we talked about light rail just cause cause i drove by library but you know you could have the smaller bus demand service there's all kinds of different levels but it's all gonna come down to whether they can sustain their business and that's going to come down to ridership alright i'm assuming it's way too early for this but at some point this plan is all going to come together the township's gonna move forward will there be any time when individual property owners or neighborhoods when they finally see what's going on right in their neighborhood where they'll have a voice to say either yes we did that is what we imagined or no we don't we didn't want that here in our specific area well it's so much easier to write a plan i'm involved in but they're very successful right no ah because paul's going to be heading the process from here forward for the plan but you know i can tell you that you have to involve and talk with those people and i mean there's legal informal ways like public adoption hearings and stuff like that but there's also other opportunities like just having dropin sessions where once the draft plan is in the hands of township staff they announce they have it and you know for a week or something you have almost like when we were in college where you had office hours and you could go drop in and ask the township anything you want let's go find my property what does it mean what's going on let me give you a formal comment that i would like you to have attached to your staff report or something of that nature so that everything is there to let that happen we need to be very honest with ourselves this plan will not be successful without the support of community it would just go on a million dollar shelf just like all the reports go on right so all those things are going to be in the report and to follow up that's a conversation we want to have with the steering committee to find out what they suggest we do somewhere between here and the public hearing like i said anything we do what we posted on the website but if they feel that we need a more formal opportunity and open another open house or something like that ah then there's certainly amenable to do that kind of thing well just like i talked about working with the planning commission and township council we don't want the public to be blindsided either so and as as paul's saying as he's going to discuss with the steering committee there's options but just everybody in this room understand that the planning department downstairs we're open eight hundred and thirty to four hundred and thirty every day we would welcome anybody at any time to come in and discuss this your ideas your concerns we're open to anybody come in and we'll talk to anybody at any time so know that we have a very open door policy so you're welcome to come in at any time we'll get it yes sir is there any process by which the community plans to reach out to for example manufacturers ah bring some of that into the township we have a solid little bit of the rail line in the neisha it's designated as industrial you know just off the top of my head going back to the senior citizen there's an awful lot of manufacturing of artificial joints for example that's just one example sure a very clean industry requiring hightech and skilled workers to attract that kind of a business any thoughts along those lines well in fact in our market study howard was here on tuesday night he did identify not a complete laundry list but identified a number of business types that aren't here now that based on his experience and his work around the country he thinks there may be some opportunity to explore and that certainly could be one of them oh we had a great conversation the other day over lunch about you know again the changing dynamic of how things are done with the internet with shopping online with you know his feeling and i've read articles about within ten years many people won't even go shopping for clothes because you will go in once get measured completely go online tell them what you want it's manufactured in a factory no bigger than this by two or three people running machines i mean it's there was an advertisement on the radio today and it actually took into account female sizes by height and so a size ten or whatever was slightly different yeah on the radio today so we can't even conceive right now of all the changes that we will witness in ten or twenty years the rate of change is accelerating exactly exactly we do have the facility already in chip manufacturing parts for inclients great good to hear that is just so you know so that as a part of that implementation recommendations in the plan we'll be looking at things like that looking at branding we've already had some discussions with staff about whether things like tax increment financing and community improvement districts that other states use are potentially available to peters township to fund redevelopment so it's too early to know what those actions are going to be but we want to go beyond just zoning changes we want to look at organizational changes we want to look at capital improvements we want to look at the waterfront in terms of how we accomplish the things that we're setting out to do just for the sake of we're videotaping these presentations obviously for people that are at home that couldn't attend this evening so i know i'm repeating but the question was ah manufacturing and the specific thing was implants and our planning director had said that there is already a facility within peters township that has been manufacturing those and has done so for awhile yes ma'am i just need a clarification you're talking about marketing the services within peters township and if i'm clear on this say some of the neighboring parks or the small communities really cannot afford to have the big bigger libraries or even a library i can think of eighty four and finleyville right off the top of my head so basically this would be peters township offering the people if they would want to come and use our facilities ah say the rec center then there would be a charge to them but at least they would have something available to them that they don't have in their small communities is that what you're talking about well let me repeat the question i guess is for clarification the concept that i think this gentleman brought up earlier marketing facilities that peters township has that they're wellknown for that they're proud of that other communities in the surrounding area may not have or may not have the level of quality that peters township does would we market to them and charge them to use those facilities those are policy decisions you know i think we've already heard from staff here that there is there are a number of cooperative agreements in place with adjoining communities to share services that might be the next step to actually market peters township assets to surrounding areas whether they're charged for it or not charged or how much as matt said that's beyond my pay grade most of the another example of that would be a regional police department you had raised your hand how long did you guys touch upon a little things like more density and mixed use what are the tax implications for the school district is that a good idea a bad idea what does that exactly bring to the community from a dollars and cents point does it that's a great question the question was if we could expand on the idea the concept of mixed use in terms of the use the density and its common characteristics specifically in terms of impacts to schools or other services provided by the town the tax base and those kinds of things correct okay that's an interesting question because two people could probably hire paul and i separately to argue the point back and forth because a lot of it is all i need more information kind of thing and what i mean by that is there is you know sort of a minimum definition of mixed use which is two or more uses but they could be uses that don't have any synergy together they can be used as that look like two different developments and they only share an entrance so you have to have meaningful mixed use and when i say mixed use i'm talking about like destination mixed use when i started to make some of these statements mixed use development is the way we're defining it being something more dense and with more uses on the same site than what you have been in the township today by its very nature of having more stuff on the land would have a higher total building value which usually translates into greater taxes on the same piece of land because the land value would be the same i think i was probably thinking along the lines of making that an apartment building as opposed to mixed use which we don't have any does that bring more people in or does it take pressure off the school district you know because there's residents that maybe not have kids in there but they're still paying the school tax yeah well i mean is as a general rule you know nonresidential uses pay taxes if it goes into a general fund for schools then that money could be used to help offset but if you have a separate millage rate that's charged just to say residents for schools and we do then there would be no benefit by having more nonresidential because they're not actually being taxed for the schools but there's interesting ways you can do it you know some committees we work in you can start to earmark some of like a sales tax or some other fees and taxes in order to help offset but usually the legal test is to have a rational nexus meaning you have to have a connection sort of for what you're charging and the service that you're providing so again it gets very complicated your specific question about an apartment complex versus a mixed use development obviously if the mixed use development ended up having some combination that had less units than the apartment complex then you would have less impact on schools cause you'd have less students but the tax question is a little more complicated we'd have to run through it maybe to take that one step further in looking at different types of residential single family versus multifamily versus condos there and there is no universal number but in all the studies that i'm aware of single family homes generate more school kids than condos and even more than apartments so you know that gets entered into the equation that the condo developer or the apartment owner is paying taxes but not using the school system to the same extent as the single family subdivision so you know those are like i said we did look at that in fact uh we looked at that to see if those were numbers we could use in this exercise but the numbers are all over the board you know i think relatively speaking what i just said is consistent across all studies but the actual numbers of how many kids come from a home versus an apartment versus a condo differ by region and based on other factors as well so by the time we're done to the end of this one we'll have a better answer for that question you'll have an answer part of it depends i mean literally is as recent as this afternoon we're still trying to work with the school district to get the right generation right to assume so i could give you a conclusion based on what we've done today but we could have the wrong rates so i mean it would be premature at this point to give you an answer but all that stuff does get factored in and once we have good data we'll get good answers but that woman went first and then you're next okay throughout all of these last three days did you hear much of anybody say or allude to the fact that while peter's township isn't really broke very bad if it isn't broke don't fix it is the way it's going is fairly good as all the ones that i attended all the sessions that i attended for example the ones with the stickers we were given a packet of stickers and there was a certain amount of stickers in each packet and you had to put the stickers on which sort of translate into well we need quite a bit of change because there was a lot of stickers in there you have to put them somewhere yeah you had to so um if i would have had that pack i would maybe only picked out one or two stickers well we may we need a little bit of change but not a lot of change did you hear any of that that peters township isn't that bad i like peters township because i do i like the school my kids go to school and i'm proud of it but maybe the way it's going is not that bad and it should somewhat continue that way did you hear any of that yes the the question that was raised was how often and to what level did you hear that everything is fine at peter's township just leave us as we are we're happy as we are and we want to continue down that path is that correct okay we did hear that in each session in the beginning of each session you know why do you remember we asked what do you like most about peter's township what do you like what's your biggest challenges kind of things it did come out a lot in the beginning of the sessions about hey we just like it the way it is we moved here for a reason as those conversations wen went on though there were kind of two important things that came to light that had people scratch their head but maybe not change your opinion but at least thinking about it the first one being that peters township welcomed most of you all from somewhere else is that correct okay so at some point they opened you with him with open arms so you came and added to what peters township is and so it may be wrong of you not to invite the next person to come and then the second thing that came up a little bit was well the one way to keep peters township exactly as it is today is to not allow any more development and those people who have zoning that allow development right now we're not very happy about that because they felt that they had rights and they had counted on some things and what their land can become and what it is so those two things were discussion points now it didn't mean it that it either swayed anybody one way or another but i'm just reporting to you kind of what was said rather than me giving a conclusion of what i felt the opinion or my opinion of that is but that's kind of how it came up and how the discussions led after that it was overwhelmingly supported that everyone likes living in peters township and they want to protect it to whatever extent they can because they want to keep it the way it is but if if growth is going to occur they want to grow with their eyes open and kind of know what's coming and be prepared for it rather than find out some day that you wake up and you just want to move so that that's kind of just some vibe but i don't want to give you my conclusions but that's the vibe and i found it interesting that out of eleven groups only three chose the trend packet in other words keep going the way we are and even among those groups in most cases if you look at their i mean you can look at the map and figure out which one had eighty three stickers and which one had forty but even among the groups that picked the trend packet in most cases they've also added some mixed use development in nodes or isolated locations around the township which indicated to us that even though they they generally want things to continue as they have they do recognize that some of the things we've talked about tuesday night are concerns you know the lack of other commercial areas the lack of housing opportunity and things like that so i think one of the outcomes of this is that it wasn't an all or nothing kind of proposition all of the groups had many commonalities in terms of where they wanted to see development and the types of development more or less that they were comfortable with and just one more thing it's always great when we keep piling on right i just want to bring up this map to give some context to that remember this is the growth map that we had and as paul had mentioned a lot of tables did come come around to the conclusion they wanted some type of destination to go to but if you look at the size of these circles compared to the township as a whole it was not that we needed to start over we were on a bad path kind of an idea it was about adding choice and more to the portfolio but it wasn't about erasing so to speak one more any other questions next question i think she was next oh this is the lady over here i'm sorry um so what happens is there a strategy let's say you skipped you know ten fifteen years from now and we have grown and we're fully maximizing all our land use what is the strategy for sustaining that into the future and is there anything we can do now till then to make it so that it's sustainable what do you do what is the strategy sure do you want to start i can start and then you can have the last two well that's that's the purpose of the plan because that's one of the words that we've been throwing about is sustainability and is the current model going to sustain us into the future or do we have to make some midcourse corrections if you will and that's why i said a few minutes ago even though you know when we finish all this and we have a good plan and the majority of people love it it's been adopted all that the job isn't done because things do change and we will have to look at it annually to make sure that if we need to make midcourse corrections we can but you know based on what we heard yesterday i think a lot of people are starting to understand that we do have the opportunity and probably have the need to do some things a little differently than what we've done in the past and you know again change is happening at such a rapid rate we don't have a crystal ball we can't predict what ten years is going to look like from now we're basing it on what we know when we read what other communities are doing i think that we're going to do a good job but i think the community needs to be vigilant and monitor the plan and monitor progress and make changes as needed one thing i would just add quickly is i would encourage you and you always want to plan with the end in mind but i would encourage you and i told you earlier that this isn't my plan so this is just a suggestion but what i'll encourage you to do and other communities have done is even though they're called guiding principles i like to call them the timeless principles so when you all come up with timeless principles and start with a steering committee and they share and ask for your opinions take those seriously because those should be things that no matter how many times you update your plan they stay true so for example we just finished a plan in londonderry new hampshire and some of the guiding principles that they had were stay forever green so very very simple but could adapt to whatever new situations came up but you knew no matter from now to the end you wanted to be green they wanted to be a walkable community they wanted to enhance their municipal advantage those were the type of statements as principals they made because if the game changes a little bit it's okay but they do not want to leave their principles because once you do what you did behind you may not be good anymore so always planning with that in mind and the principals are general enough that they shouldn't be able to withstand recessions and all that kind of stuff and stay true to them and that's how i make sure that they end up working jamie had a question my observation was you said tuesday night peters township is ninety eight single family homes and the national average is seventy four and in our group which was the group over here they put half of their lots all over that undeveloped ground in uh brighton right right and i looked at all the maps and i looked at the map you have here we want some change but we want it controlled right and there's certain areas we'd like to see that change yeah there was consensus on where change would be contemplated i wouldn't even say welcomed where it would be contemplated first is mapping it all out in half acre lots in keeping us at ninety eight half acre lots that was the that was the theme that came out of this week's events now this week's event just so everyone knows gets combined with all the different ways input is being put into this plan and so it'll all be balanced but out of this week's events that's what consensus can be reached the plan which i think you mentioned was due in november august august pardon me i may ask for the extension though it's okay by me i know the plan when it is finished and adopted within ten years how much of this original plan do you think will be final in the ten year period how much of it will final in terms of implemented ten twenty the question is ten years from now in your experience how far down the road will we be in terms of implementing the plan as it was written yeah well there there are a couple different things one would be the action recommendations that will be in the plan we would hope ten years from now the majority of those would have been put in place in terms of land use that's much more difficult to determine because again there's economic factors and so on but i certainly expect that in the lengthy list of action steps that we put in the plan if the township is committed to the plan which i have every reason to believe they will be they'll start going down that list and implementing those recommendations i'd be very disappointed if a majority of those weren't in place ten years from now if not all of them so a majority you're talking say seventy i sure we have to say it's let's just go back to the two thousand and one and when the plan was completed then so some of the recommendations that were then were things like the rec center the improvements to center church and east of murray the improvements that are soon to be happening around route nineteen lands use sometimes it's slow as paul was talking about so this is a long range plan there might be depending on the recommendations some things might be able to be implemented very quickly they're quick steps that we can take they might be a year goal and we can get those things done there's other things that depend on the market and private investment as well as well as state funds and local funds to get things done it depends on the recommendations there's things that can be done quickly there's things that will take time for us to get done and then there's other things that might rely on outside things that we can't control type of thing yes ma'am we're really talking of the long range plan and i being a fairly new transplant to here i agree that it's a great view but i think we don't we don't want to forget about peters current identity that is making it attractive currently because we have to keep those people coming for the next five to six years as we build out so currently the identity is the rural which attracts people as well as the schools and tonight it concerns me that in your meetings today that the school was not a focus because when we're looking when we came we were looking at communities peters schools stand out and that pulls people into look and then they see the beauty of the rural and then if we can add a town center down the line i mean this is a good plan but i just want us to keep that focus on the identity that makes us peters right now the statement that was made was schools the rural or green character are what attracted you and others to the township and you want to make sure that that stays in the forefront of everybody's mind and for both protection enhancement and did i miss anything else that's good okay yes i mean we agree in all the research and the discussions we've had the schools and the character come up over and over again we are working with the school district and that relationship will continue throughout throughout the plan as these issues come up and the timing is not on purpose but sometimes we don't site the school until we know what development's going to look like as a whole for example so you want to be able to maintain the same service you provide but at the level we're talking about right now which is which is even higher we're talking more about like do we need a new school and if we do how many more do we need and then you decide where it goes by where the development patterns and things look like so all those conversations occur but it looks kind of like spaghetti you know they all kind of interweave back and forth within each other and there is the actually organized chaos going on when you see all this stuff happening but just rest assured that both the schools and i can't remember which map it was cause there's more than one but but green kept coming up over and over within the community values that were stated on these maps of reasons that were important and that's one of the reasons why you see some areas where people want to do focused growth which meant in the other areas they would like to see some of the green remain as well so and there's we talked about ideas about you know how do you introduce the green there was the idea about there were two chips in the game one was half acre lots what i'll call sort of the predominant neighborhood type that's here right now and then there was a chip that was the exact same amount of units but it mandated forty in open space land and open space so it was more of a green type concept and so that those things are being discussed right now no conclusions are being made because we're still working on vision and all of that but once the vision comes out and the steering committee starts to share that that's where you need to test them and push back and make sure that those words are into those statements and you know and one thing that did come up in our work assignment we came from a very planned community very manicured was that as we go into those areas where the developer's allowed to make smaller plans but you have open space we have to be careful that the developer doesn't take the hillside that's unusable and give that as the open space and you know that is going to be very important to how peters continues i had that exact conversation today with the recreation department i just i said we'd like to have open space but you know we don't want to have to use ropes to climb them so yeah usable open space is very important you've got a third person piling on now so i just like to point out too that with our steering committee i mentioned those representatives are here we also have one of the school board members who is on the steering committee as well so there was a long conversation with the school district today and those lines have definitely been opened up i've been on the phone multiple times getting information for matt so those lines of communication are open the steering committees has heard definitely loud and clear schools are a big thing and then we also have the representative on scene as well so just to point out i think one of the underpinnings of this plan we need to keep in mind that there's some great things about this community that we want to build on not ignore and certainly schools are near if not at the top of that list along with the open space rural character and taxes and so on so we also recognize that there are some challenges and we need to address those but we don't want to diminish what's great about this community either and i can tell you from my experience having done many plans like this we don't always get cooperation from the school district though we try many times the school district is off in their own doing their own thing they're playing very close to the vest they don't want to divulge their plans or you know even try to coordinate with the community in terms of where growth is going and so on i was very gratified we met with the school superintendent and his assistant acting um not some third level acting superintendent not some third level person from the administration so you know that signaled to me that they are interested we had a great conversation they really were interested in what was coming out of the scenario workshop and coordinating with us so we're off to a great start with them i know there's probably many many more questions and we're going to allow some we can take one more and then we can definitely have conversations afterwards it's about quarter to so we'll take one more question and we want to go ahead and get onto the raffle the real reason you came take a look at some maps and you guys can come up and ask questions sorry for dominating the conversation this gentleman right here generally speaking how many more years of growth do we have the reason was i was reading an article that said a community is good as long as it's growing but they'll start having problems as soon as they stop growing the question and statement that was raised was how long is left until peters township builds out because there was some research that was done that showed that communities tend to start decaying when they don't grow and they just get stagnant and start to decline it's okay that's fine uh i don't have a year that the peters township builds out because of the fact that it's kind of a roller coaster especially if you look at the last ten years nobody would have thought about the recession and no one's going you know stopping all development in a small time but i can tell you that at this point in time you have about a third of your land left to develop and i can tell you what that ends up being and then you can look at different growth coders to see about how long would it take to get you there but if you plan on only being one number there's a lot of chance of being wrong remember when i showed you in the opening presentation how you plan for a hurricane so you would want a high and a low estimate and then you know you're going to be somewhere in between so it's kind of how that it's not tomorrow you got plenty more room to grow for several years but i don't want to tell you exactly what year it is because you know there's so many factors that could affect you have a range sometime between now and the year five thousand right now the past couple of years is a rough number this is just rough there's been about a hundred new homes a year for the past couple years okay we had a high point obviously back in the early 2000's late 90's early 2000's where there was a big spike in growth and obviously we dropped off a little bit but we're seeing past three four years it started to come up again two hundred would surprise you what's that two hundred a year would surprise you it used to be the norm but i would tell you that we talked about life cycles of communities tuesday night and there are a lot of communities that are built out most cities are built out they don't have any more vacant land for development they can't annex any more land but through redevelopment taking some of the older areas or the declining areas and reinventing those areas communities continue to thrive so just because you used all the land doesn't mean that you're going to start to necessarily you don't stop growing right right exactly oh stop reaching please alright first before i get to this i just like to say thank you to you guys again and also to give our consultants a round of applause