Don't know what to do

Question: My yard took a turn for the worse last year.  It seems like the grass is bunching up with bare spots in the yard.  The bare spots are like a thick, entangled, dead root system?  It is basically 30+ year old sod.  Last spring I had it looking really good.  Now, it looks terrible and I don't know what to do.  I have been very faithful over the years with my crabgrass/fertilizer, weed and feed, and winterizer applications.

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 12, 2024, 3:29 PM EDT
response: Here are some more pictures from 2021 when I roughed up the bare spots by hand, reseeded and watered. I have been treating the yard the last 2 years for summer patch.  It looked quite nice last spring before the drought.

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 12, 2024, 8:10 PM EDT
response: That last photo, before the drought, looks really good.  Did you continue to water on a regular basis??  New grass does not have an established root system and needs to be cared for during the entire season when there is a lack of natural water.  You may have to redo the areas that died.  Also, have you seen white moths fly up when mowing?  They also can cause the patchy loss of grass. Like grubs, they eat the roots.  I had an area of my lawn that looked a lot like your photo ending 845.  I treated the area with a pesticide labeled for lawn insects.  Of course, it could have been Summer Patch, which you treated for, and controlled looking at your last photo of a good lawn.

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 13, 2024, 10:46 AM EDT
response: Thank you Barbara for you reply. My adventure so far.  In 2021 you can see where I tried the reseeding.  This was because the lawn had been getting worse since 2020 and I had to try something.  I roughed up the patches on my hands and knees, seeded and watered.  Before doing so, I tested with the soapy water for moths (which I really haven't been seeing) and I looked for grubs.  Scott Moon from Sargant's nursery in Rochester thought summer patch by photos I had sent to him. In 2021 I seeded with a ryegrass/fescue/bluegrass combination. It looked really good in 2022 and most of 2023.  I treated in 2022 & 2023 with Infuse disease control.  Then later summer into fall last year it all started again.  The bare spots seem to be so matted that if I dig it out, the yard is really rough.  I don't see how the grass will grow well when it is so matted.  Sorry to say. I am a retiree that has turned into one of those guys that spends way to much on his yard, and this is driving me crazy.... I sometimes think the only thing to do is to have the front yard tilled and reseed.  I have been fighting with this for 3+ years.   Thank you for your time.  I don't know anyone in my area that can come and look at this for me.  I am open to suggestions.  Bruce Spurgeon Spring Valley MN <personal data hidden>

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 13, 2024, 10:27 PM EDT
response: Before you till and start over, try a vertical mower, also called de-thatching.  You mention how matted down the areas are.  It may be that you have cared for your lawn too well and now there is a layer of old grass roots that need to be removed.  Vertical mowers can be rented.  If you cannot manage the machine, perhaps your contact at the nursery or the place that rents the machines knows someone who will do it.  I have one that hooks on the back of my lawn tractor.  It is not as good as the commercial ones but does the job.  Once the dead grass is dug up, you can catch it with your mower and then try overseeding.  The grass mixture you used is a perfect fit.  Good luck.  I know how frustrating it can be.  https://extension.umn.edu/lawn-care/how-control-thatch-your-lawn

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 14, 2024, 10:46 AM EDT
response: Thank you for the response.  I had the lawn dethatched in 2022, but not with the vertical blades. They did tell me at the time that they took twice as much thatch from my yard as others. This is something I am going to get done, somehow.  Couple questions.  Should I go over the lawn twice in different directions, or go one way, then another direction later?  Is there a better time of year to do this?  Then just spread seeds over the area when done?  Then just continue my normal applications.  I really appreciate the help.  I'll just have to remember not to expect immediate results.  I'm hoping for the best. Thank you much Bruce Spurgeon

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 14, 2024, 4:27 PM EDT
response: The best time to remove thatch is in the fall.  However, it seems as though the matted grass you have now is going to present problems.  By fall, you may find more damage.  So you could do it now and go N/S first and then E/W on the second round.  The article says fertilizing too much can lead to build up.  Take a look at our Lawn Care Calendar for some guidance.  https://extension.umn.edu/planting-and-growing-guides/lawn-care-calendar

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 18, 2024, 12:26 PM EDT
response: Good morning. The weather hasn't cooperated for me to do the power raking.  Hopefully soon. I thought I would send 2 pictures of the lawn the way it is before I do so to see if there are any fresh thoughts. Thank you very much. Bruce Spurgeon

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 18, 2024, 5:06 PM EDT
response: You could possibly have fescue bunch grass.  That is not bad.  New fescue seeds will fill in the area, perhaps creeping red fescue.  However, I am concerned that those broad leaved grasses may be crabgrass. If so, there are post-emergent liquids to take care of that.  Otherwise, my original recommendations stand.

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 18, 2024, 5:23 PM EDT
response: Thanks again.  I hate being a pain.  I will get the vertical mower and get that done when it isn't wet for a few days.  I have one rounded up. I thought the clump in the middle was quack grass and I was just stuck with it.  If crabgrass, what do you recommend for that?  If quack, there is nothing for that?  I usually use Trimec on my weeds/lawn. Again, I want to say thanks for the advice.  This has given me a little hope for my front yard.  Patience with this will be hard. Bruce Spurgeon

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 18, 2024, 5:31 PM EDT
response: It is very possible that is quack grass.  Don't know why I didn't think of that.  There is really only one way to really get rid of quack grass.  Kill it.  You will have to use a non-selective herbicide (like Round Up).  Quack grass spreads by stolens that spread underground and if even one little bit of a root is left in the ground alive it will continue to spread.  I once had it in a portion of my raspberry patch and had to transplant the plants and then went through the soil on my hands and knees sifting through every single grain to remove any bit of roots.  As you are planning on renovating your lawn anyway, might at well get rid of the quack grass in that area.  Then after that is done and the vertical mowing done, you can seed.  Be careful with the herbicide you use.  Some allow planting within a few weeks while another sterilizes the soil for a full year!  Good luck.

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 24, 2024, 1:45 PM EDT
response: One more question if I may? I have scarified my yard, got a lot of garbage out of the yard.  What would be a good grass seed combination?  More or less bluegrass? It's pretty much full sun, but have used sun & shade in the past. Thanks Much Bruce Spurgeon

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 25, 2024, 2:42 PM EDT
response: Sun and shade mix is a good option.  Bluegrass will thrive in the sun but not in shade.  The fescue in the mix will thrive in shade but also grow in sun.

responder: The Question Asker Replied April 25, 2024, 3:14 PM EDT
response: Thank you for all of the help you have been.  I really do appreciate the guidance.  Now I just have to try and keep my patience and let things happen.  I have attached a picture to show what I have it looking like now. Thanks again. Bruce Spurgeon

responder: Barbara, Anoka County MG, TCA Replied April 26, 2024, 11:39 AM EDT
response: You have done a lot of work.  It should reward you. Good Luck!