The Northern Daily Times. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-10-20 00:00:00

; L• • -__________ • F RIB tv, tj AND RUSSIA . , X . v3i B UR ii.o L°N N CORRESPONDENT. L y r , c' . 40 0 114 °- -0-T . WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. 41 f there a r ~ ,,o nep f tiot,: f Au s t ria i. are rave suspicions of the good l' ic oVT, eati 4 , her e u,earrying out the boasted reduc .o _ normou' • i %1 4 lip h er r 1 army—an anny which is ~. 110 /1 telit_feit upon the seems to be no , I) sit o , ti le eotkity, Thisla the important point of her coivie, which is her safety in 1 -13orld' ; l in ill t in g eti spat: 41, th ' 'lois, and S w eden diffused satisfaction in „ et N. , and ueed be S*e t den ; for, if it be persisted '4' real th e _ ue no apprehensions of an European „ , re _ to b revolutionary elements must be con e e ii i • li t tl im e e ' Supposing Austria to ' f !e , r il e ti rn i t . r4 t w ill no concern with the amount itt , 4 eth 7 . I Vhether it be corroding her vitals ~v. e , ,s 3 i fi 401 10 4 11, 1 be essential for her cohesion as ti , 1: 111 0 ' 4 1 tl ie ' ot be Itia T er 4, the expense of bankruptcy, we 11;40 Ate oth er; but no particular anxiety one way or Free %,, e •ati on of E we . gre gravely interested in the European peace, and on this account CO qu °i" in tl of k re e iiiiiiin ieDnentrality of Austria. ~s .have, reached. the Government r e o dol i lkli 4 welt a o m i t t4 ,_Pr e , a .,_ . e the Government of France, which olio th Losol e ' n : , ea both Powers for a decided, if not ~, I Zllat e t ', rejection of the :Turkish demand to Prr . rdi ti I " Principalities. Both are prepared la, N• g 3 7 and ,1 t i , Iw a ' the, utmost harmony prevails. t 1 t w e ch e ll o a ti ; t t l ll v e o re such' a perfect entente cordiale be ac_„, t itet ~, eat nationl, as exists now between the liJu' i t e crr, r ,,_ Nesters,powers. From what I har, the s. , 11 0 0: N r t , ig to " r b e , e if t , h , e united fleets do enter the Black pow .r 4, 4 . go it ! Irlea 7 ~\'''N.l ' 8 no particular news in the -foreign or ,pt e k , , c 4,._ . ~, 4e bbominals this morning; but the Daily 5. 27 t D o t tree f the same agency, I suppose, which d JO N e 'le,h a °r it the first copy of the Manifesto of the 0 Ll' th " to s got hold of the letter sent by Omer we- ( 44a, tif eount Gortschakoff, when sending him , d e e rO oe _ e sto. It is in the same tone as all the co ! eli N etit u_tnents issued on the part of Turkey— ,ra ti 0 ( 4 40% ' ‘ ,..vhich give to the misbeliever over the a ll , , k, nr . istian, all the advantages of modera olk 1 , 4 giustice. 0' 0 14 e foil • 0 t o erp,,_, ( Aving is a translation of the letter from 4a el :,,u,Aa to Prince Gortschakoff, calling on him 0 li t ti 11 04 ,42 the Principalities :_. ,) ii ),,teltat have le General—lt is by tke order of letter g o 0 o eb oy. nave the honour to address this to your 1 A e 0t16,7 11 118 t 4., 1 F k g p latio li T e Sublime Porte has exhausted all means of k t o th e r .,‘ o maintain at once peace and its own indepen 0 l' Ve, I va ,"urt of Russia has not ceased to raise difficulties .01, k pO 4 ',of any such settlement , and has ended with the e l si i t' l 'clavi a °t .. treaties—invading the two Principalities of , al ,. ,P,',,re. and Wallachia, integral parts of the Ottoman ' tyrue ~., t imi g it, :4 , its pacific system, the Porte, instead of exer- I) 'ltLtc:gali,,totoTake reprisals, confined itself even then to h . , an ..1. did not deviate from the way that might Ltd 4 tett Itsia ar rangement. is d i „i'pat ts : l ? ll the contra:lT, far from evincing corresponding 'pale 4likel th e ' a lias ended by rejeding the proposals recortunen th 1 1 ,,,N es ngust mediatmg Courts- proposals which were ie jt , k'',;;, ' 41 7 to the honour and to the security of the ' .3 P'' 44 0 e Ira it k i „ ty o , o llly remains 'for theT lett*. the indispensable ' 1 ( .,. it. '4 vio ', war. But as - the invasion of the Principalities, Pt,', l )le iation of treaties which have attended it, are the d l , 4 ll . ol l , f , c ,Tises of war, the Sublime Porte, as a last ex , _,. !",r 4 /Ili t pacific sentiments, proposes to your Excellency, 'or { V t "t o , 4 vention, the evacuation of the two provinces, and s' 1 4 tlh, " ,Icallt decision a term of fifteen days, to date from 1 0 14 ''t ' (It this letter. If within this interval a negative ~/)t kz , ° fl . ll,2each me from your Excellency, the commence- Yot lr N e N,, hies will be the natural consequence. 41 3D , , ,te e i 1. , 4 have the honour to make this intimation to IN% '„lley, I emhrace the opportunity to offer the I 11 4 ° th. °' my high esteem." - ' 10 0 N summons __,/ y . r em . the Russian General is said to l o 1 to 4 eyr' e d , that " Ru ‘ ssia was not at war with te ,ev atti that in any season he would be prepared --- i Oki a te the Principalities, as soon as his mas i' ett a obtained the moral satisfaction which he , le fea llcl ed; and that-if he were attacked he would ' The himself" 4 e Patrie gives - news from St. Petersburg of 10 t1 i et „ , 1, according to which the Emperor had 4,, 'u. military Measures of the utmost impor ,e. A D . , n army vas be destined for operations /0 ''_'Lltop e , and theitroops in Poland and other e ' es were to be called into activity.- The same t o al adds that the Emperor had declared that _-. . \\Tar against Turkey would be one of exter- Sq.t9 41e chief . The appointment of Prince Paskiewitch , 1 0 -Li t y L it egke i hief command is confirmed, and a corps J3n t,R , ..k ) men occupying Poland, placed at his dis of th e ' ; t \ '', 4 1 te Presse of Vienna announces that the eti 'al ~.._ cr o ,. t 9loieral Parnoukine, near Warsaw, and the i2th e ",er General Stabt, had been ordered to fjt 9 4) k'ruth. .' . . th a , p ~,eonstaritinople we have accounts to the of '410„ in the .various communications bearing ti l t he '' before us, we gather thatto the manifesto 1 1,y ROv 1 ernment the nation had replied with en !till NU. !I I b W e i l The army is described as eager for war, i 4 4t e , disci lined. There are 130,000 regulars qthe .1 :e, and 70,000 in Asia. Another manifesto 1 11 , tt r° 1 1rse of publication in the shape of a eap'l p, or der to the army, is stated to have " a 0 t iDo uounced tint of Mohammedanism." It thlh t 4 the faithful, in the name of the Koran, 4 f q l e .lt.a 4 Ple battles ,o justice,. and whoever feels t, 01 'of that firmness and strength of mind rty e a , t ,is .iti ah ,nstitutes courage, has but to declare his I qoa "niiity to' be employed elsewhere. A depu kke°,fithe Armenian clergy, bankers, and lead ort e e ' i l t eers of the corporations, presented them rOtir, ,`',the Porte on. the sth, for the purpose of , 11 , 1 ,, e 6 (i tneir services. They were most graciously and thanked by the ministers, who could 1 4 dift Fi olui CUlty suppress their delight at this sport. act of loyalty. S e litt P ire ° f, unti e Si 1; sbef• ,re *oz in t° Y °r : ( 0411 , u .. 4 tSteti4 FRANCE, O4lte k t'r' Si Me of Tuesday gives an account of the 1 1 ,ns „, oC b t Goudchaux, the banker and ex-Mini inance. The charge against him in the Lwas that of being possessed of arms and of i l i°)., \‘ ',"lliated to secret societies. Nothing, how ptts found to substantiate this charge among 41 , re e • There 'was a great number of receipts I , l ti, ° 4 l , l eY . given to the necessitous families of O N . t , exiles, and these were all kept by the ' l , l q ( ,'„ but M, Goudchaux, after a detention of a 1N 11 4.1.8 , Was set at liberty. The Presse of Tuesday 1/211% g speaks of several other political arrests at t,, 4 4l lßi ii -11 : 1 in the . departments. At Nantes, M. sen., the proprietor of a paper, and his ( 1, 1 1 ° cp been arrested:. M. Maugin is a leading ttb uie party, but it is not believed that he has - Ming seriously , to compromise himself. 4USTRIA 4 ') r e \l.,eteq bards the new loan, said to have been con tlwltl-1 Messrs. Rothschild, contingent on a ba s e , it the Vienna correspondent-of the Chro ko iis that there is not a word of truth about t,, a d , " he adds, " the Russo-Turco affairs p ' European money- market in general St a n I‘ , - 0 more favourable turn, I dare say, a new 1 1 11 ,, 41 d have been negotiated. But at present V°111 ) " of the question. I may also add, upon t e authority, that the Austrian govern- c -11 do very well without a loan at present. ITALY LAI t t 4 47 4 t0 et from Florence, of the 12th, in the Par tO T • I ,c)t b Turin, states that Miss Cunninghame e forced out of prison, morally at least, if te qt. Nll •N I a. 3 , since she would not accept of her S t4 l4 a favour, but as a ,right. The official who a lc 4 6 a_ i ted to her the order for her liberation Nal t ;leti to inform her that he had full power 4 t i 4 141 ,1 her leave her prison, whereupon she cl b a certificate in due form, stating that een forcibly ejected AN.AZ t{Ncl'o t i)o NATioN.—ller Majesty the Queen, has tl; at ion of £5O in aid of the "Scottish Ladies' Vt i N, , for promoting female Industrial Education in 14,N1,..`Pecially in the Highlands and Islands." CtN il \; ) 1 1 1'4 VACATION.—On Monday next the long ,V%;( 11 ' terminate, when pleadings in actions in the fi t it t li:ktt ll l , 4 s will bo resumed. The Common Law Pro diminished the force of the vacation. iii ,"'W COMMISSION ON BANKRUPTCY. — The Nt' under th 6 new commission, appointed to in °Alaw o f b a nkruptcy, will be held on the Ist of t 4 309 a, tli e , 11 4 ,, Of 4 ,A AND COAL.—Where are just now within 1. f : 4 ll a i, k hi I,`" fewer than 254 merchant, or trading vessels, ` I Y Q " are loaded w ith coal, which article, from being _ . w m t ," dur i ng the last fortnight,. has so accumu •k:NheNat 11 „,in the ' ast few days it has fallen some 4s per " " (0 erCUT 1 4 te r 'ro. Nv Y• tifetd a 2ta ti , NI SAILOR'S HOME.—The Cork Southern Lki 'ae '8 that funds are every day being contributed 04)' b Nta blishriient of the Queenstown Sailors' Home, 1 / 4 Yt tee bOdies, but by individuals, and that " ° e t ;o ct il ent contributors, the Cork Steam Ship Com -4 o.: COMMISSION TO INQUIRE INTO THE LOCAL CHARGES ON SHIPPING. Yesterday, a public meeting was held by the Hon. John Henry Manners Sutton, Charles Ramsay Drinkwater Bethune, ~ nd Colin Blackburn, her Majesty's commissioners for in iring into the local charges on shipping in the ports of the ted kingdom and islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, and Man, in the Nisi Prius Court, St. George's Hall. ~yond the parties immediately interested, the attendance was very limited. Amongst those present we observed, on behalf of the corporation, Mr. Shuttleworth, town-clerk ; Mr. Toppin, Mr. Venn, and Mr. Hughes. The dock committee was represented by Mr. Charles Turner, chairman; Mr. J. North, solicitor, and Mr. Mason, the secretary. Mr. Powles, chair- Man of the Birkenhead dock trustees ; Mr. Bramah, the secretary ; Mr. Greene, chairman of the Birkenhead' town commissioners, were also present. Mr. Sinclair and Mr. Thonipson represented the Garston Dock and Railway . Com pany. Mr. Thomas: Bold, Mr. Robert Lamont, Mr. J. Holmes, Mr. J. K. Rtunthwaite, and several other gentle men connected with th shipping interest of the port, were present. . , The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Sutton) said, the first thing he had to dO was to read the commission, which ran as follows : "Whereas we have deemed it expedient that a commis sion should forthwith issue for inquiring into local charges upon shipping in the ports of the united kingdom and islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Sark, and Man : Now know ye, that we, reposing great confidence in your zeal and ability, have authorized and appointed, and do by these presents autho rize and appoint, you the said John Henry Thomas Manners Sutton, Charles Ramsay Drinkwatcr Bethune, and Colin Blackburn to be our commissioners for the purposes afore said : and our gill and pleasure is, that you, or any one or more of you, shall especially inquire into all charges (other than duties of customs payable to us, our heirs or successors, pilotage charges, fees, or other sums payable to the Board of Trade, tolls, or payments payable to the corporation of the trinity house of Deptford Strand, the commissioners of the northern lighthouses, or the corporation for preserving and improving the port of Dublin in respect of lighthouses, lights, floating lights, beacons, buoys, or other marks or signs for the sea, and rates or payments payable to the said trinity house in respect of lastage, or ballastage in or near the River Thames,) which arc levied or leviable in any part of the ports or harbours of the united kingdom, or of the islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, and Man, by any person or persons, body corporate, or local authority. upon ships, or upon goods carried in ships, whether in the nature of passing tolls or otherwise, and to report upon the nature and amount of such charges, the title or authority in law under which the same are levied, the application of the same, and whether and how far they are applied to any pur pose from which the person paying the same derives any benefit ; also upon the exemptions, if any, of any particular persons or classes of persons from any of such charges." The CHAIRMAN, after reading the commission, continued to observe : The returns which the commissioners have received, have been full in every respect, and so satisfactory, that in fact as regards the enquiry, we have very few questions to ask. The principal object of the commissioners, therefore, in coming to Liverpool, was to afford to any person interested in the matter, an opportunity of making any statement or observation connected with it, - which he might wish to address to the commissioners. As regards the information which we desire to obtain, as I said before, really there is hardly anything which has not been already furnished to the Commissioners. Mr. CHARLES TURNER said as chairman of the dock committee, he attended there with the dock solicitor and secretary, for the purpose of giving her Majesty's commis sioners information. If there were any information, on any point required by the commissioners, they should be happy to give it. The CHAIRMAN : The returns are so full, and in every respect so entirely complete, really we have but one or two questions to put. We will finish our part of the enquiry, and after that we shall be prepared to hear any remarks any person wishes to make. The TOWN CLERK said the answers which the commis sioners had received from him, related merely to the dues which were received by the corporation. The answers were not at all applicable to dues received by the trustees of the docks. The CHAIRMAN separate things No, I am quite aware they are two A docl Mr. BRAMAH, Secretary to the Birkenut— trustees, wished to ask whether Birkenhead was included in the :remarks made by the chairman, relative to this enquiry. The representatives of Birkenhead docks had received a number of inquiries, to _which they had replied, and he thought •fit to volunteer some remarks with respect to levying town dues on tonnage at Birkenhead docks ; and he had only to ask that if the commissioners were satisfied that the representation he had made, brought the matter clearly before the commissioners, and that it would form a part of the report, he had nothing further to trouble the committee with. If, on the other hand, the commissioners th oug ht th ere was a doubt on the question, or if it were not sufficiently clear on their minds. - - _ to the real operation and effect of this thing, he should prepared to call witnesses who would set the matter .rfectly straight before them. Mr. POWLES asked whether the commissioners would hold enquiry in Birkenhead ? Iu that case they should take a ifferent course here, if it was the intention of the commis ioners to hold an enquiry in Birkenhead. Had they any such intention ? The CHAIRMAN : No, the observations I made had refer ence to the answers received to the questions, sent by the commissioners. Those answers are very full and complete, both as regards Liverpool to which I alone addressed my ob servations at,the time and, I may add, they are perfectly complete as regards Birkenhead. It is not, at present, the intention of the commissioners to hold a local court of en quiry at Birkenhead, and it will be obvious that any observa tions which those interested in Birkenhead may wish to ad dress to the Commissioners with respect to the Liverpool docks ; it is much better they should be addressed to the commissioners in Liverpool than in Birkenhead. It will give an opportunity to parties in Liverpool to reply to the observations if they think it desirable. With reference to what has fallen with regard to Birkenhead, the commission ers think it better that any observations which you may make or bring before their notice with respect to the effect of the Liverpool dues on Birkenhead, should be addressed to them here, for the same reason as stated before, it would give the opportunity of further remarks. the. BRAMA.H said nothing further only bringing it for ward. He did not mean to occupy their time and reiterate, viva voce, what he had returned to the commissioners in writ ing. He had nothing more to say if his answers had esta blished in their minds the existence of the fact. The CHAIRMAN thought it would be more satisfactory if the fact were stated then. Mr. TURNER said the commissioners had received no an swer from the dock committee. The CHAIRMAN : I know we have not. Mr. TURNER should like to address a few observations about the dock corporation, - which was not a beneficial one at all. The CHAIRMAN: The fact is the docks of Liverpool are regulated by act of parliament. Mr. TURNER : By several. Mr. NORTH : As the chairman has just explained you have not received any return to questions sent to the Liverpool dock trustees, for the reasons which I will shortly explain if I may be allowed to do so. I gathered both from the terms of the commissioner, and beside from what passed at the board of trade, when the dock chairman, the town clerk, and myself, had the honour of an interview with Mr. Cardwell on the subject of the commission, and still more from the terms of the act of Parliament itself, forbidding the mortgage and charge of shipping rates with a view to the present enquiry. I collected that the object of this commission was principally, if not exclusively, to enquire into such charges levied on shipping, as the shipping trade might not receive a corresponding benefit from ; and I felt, therefore, that the enquiry was foreign entirely . to the con stitution of the Liverpool dock estate, which is a separate corporation existing under acts of parliament, from the time of Queen Anne downwards, managed by a committee of twenty-four members, of whom one-half are elected by the dock ratepayers, and half the number by the town council out of their own body ; and whose funds are received and applied exclusively for the beneficial purposes of the manage ment and maintainance of the docks and harbours of Liver pool, without any private interest or emolument whatever. I felt, therefore, that the answers to those enquiries, so far as the dock committee are concerned, as you have indicated, are contained in the volume of statutes, which regulate their whole proceedings. Their history may be compressed into half-a-dozen of words. They levy under those acts of par liament, tonnage dues on shipping, and dues on goods, to the amount of, in round numbers, £300,000 per year, which is applied, as I have already said, exclusively for the pur pose of promoting the interest of the port and harbour. It is hardly for any purpose which may not be considered only local, but national : the ships not only of the whole king dom, but' of every maritime country, having the same advantage and the same use of the Liverpool docks that our shipping has. With that explanation which I have taken the liberty of making, I did myself the pleasure of calling (d. your office, in Loudon, three months ago, but I found you had then gone on your circuit. T then made the same ex planation to your clerk, but I could receive no authority from him, and I told him I would take the opportunity of laying this statement before the committee, and take your opinion. If, after what I have stated, anything is required from the dock committee, which is germ= to the object of this enquiry, we shall gladly give it. We have nothing to conceal, we wish for every publicity. The CHAIRMAN : You have an annual account of the dock committee ? Mr. Nonni : The annual accounts are Printed and pub lished, and laid before parliament. The CHAIRMAN : That printed account and this act of par liament contain everything ? Mr. NORTH : Everything. I can give you. The CHAIRMAN : In fact they answer all our ques tions. _ _ . Mr. NORTH : I think so, entirely. The CHAIRMAN : The result is the same. The commis sioners have before them, as far as I am aware, the fullest information they require, with regard to the decks. I think it right to prevent misapprehension, that I should state the commissioners do not quite concur in the view you (Mr. North) take of the object of the commission, Their THE NORTHERN DAILY TIMES. krers of enquiry are not limited to the view, that where used ti whilst waiting to .g. those who pay the rates do not receive a corresponding bene fit ; that they apply to all dues levied on shipping, especially for the purpose of seeing they do receive a benefit. Mr. NORTH : I quite feel that, as I gathered the spirit of into the Graving Dot your enquiry. The CHAIRMAN believed that they levied dues only for the If they wanted a graving dock let them construct one for themselves, and not uge the graving docks of Liverpool, to the injury- of vessels paying such dues. They could not claim it. use of the docks. Mr. NORTH said they did. They had power to receive dues on goods when vessels discharged their cargoes in the stream or river. This was a privilege which the legis lature thought proper to reserve to them. The CHAIRMAN Practically they received no amount under the heading. Mr. NORTH : In Liverpool it was most trifling. It never could'be considerable. The CHAIRMAN : Are there any exemptions ? Mr. NORTH : Not one, with a slight exception, which he had endeavoured to explain. The . privilege retained to them to receive dues from vessels was in consequence of this state of things. Until the year 1840 the dock trustees had ex clusively the control at Liverpool. Then two small docks were made on this side of the river, called the Harrington and Herculaneum docks, in which this principle was in some degree curtailed to the extent of giving vessels using those docks exclusively exemption. But the same power was subsequently added with reference to Birkenhead when it sprung into existence a few years ago. , The CHAIRMAN : Therefore a vessel going to Birkenhead docks does not pay Liverpool dock dues ? Mr. NORTH : They do not unless they discharge in the ;ream. The CHAIRMAN : I mean there are no exceptions in cases f vessels over there ? Mr. NORTH : None whatever. The CHAIRMAN : No differential dutie Mr. NORTH : None. Mr. NORTH thought one word would dispose of this com plaint. This was not a forced construction, but it was the result or operation of an act of parliament ; of an act passed immediatelybefore the establishment of the Birkenhead docks, with a full knowledge, on . the part of the promoters of that scheme, of the existence of this clause, and with their full assent to it, which he stated without the fear of contradiction, because it was open to them to have the clause repealed and investigated at the time. " He might say also that Birken head had gone four or five times already to parliament for the purpose of altering this state of things ; and it remained in its entirety to that day. Mr. POWLES remarked that Mr. Turner did not stick to principle. If they kept to principle they should get on better. What they complained of was this—Liverpool ig nored the existence of Birkenhead as regarded the tonnage duties; they did not allow them to be a near coasting port. They did not admit them in that capacity which they claimed by their geographical position. How could that be denied ? They denied Birkenhead to be in the first class of coasters ; that was to say, coasters coming from the nearest coasting port, which they denied it was. A ship coming from Birkenhead to Liverpool had to pay as much as if she came from India direct. If that same ship had gone to Fleetwood, discharged there as from India, and then came to Liverpool, she would be admitted here at lid. per ton. A vessel which had lightened her deck load in the river, before going into Birkenhead docks, had to pay the Liverpool dues. Mr. TURNER : Not on her cargo. Mr. BRAAilar remarked that it was as the learned gentle man had stated, that vessels entering the Birkenhead docks did not pay Liverpool dock dues, but the point he wanted distinctly to bring before them was this : If a ship left the Birkenhead docks for the purpose of coming over to the Liverpool docks, she paid the whole of the dues from the foreign port she might have left before coming to Birkenhead. That was one point he wished particularly to put before the committee. Supposing a ship came from India, and the cargo was consigned to Birkenhead, she went into the-Birkenhead docks, and she paid the Birkenhead dock trustees the dues they were authorised to levy by their Act of Parliament, and she then had occasion, for any purpose it might be for repairs, to enter the Liverpool docks, the Liverpool dock trustees charged her with the entire rates from Calcutta, or whatever other foreign port she came from, ignoring the existence of Birkenhead as a dock or as a port. They did not deem it to be one of the docks of Liverpool, although all goods landed and embarked at Birkenhead were charged or chargeable with town dues. A case had occurred within the last few weeks, which, as example was better than theory, he would detail. A large ship with timber entered the river; in consequence of her great depth of water she could not enter the Brunswick dock. The Consignees of the vessel came to the Birkenhead trustees to see if they would take her in. For the purpose of getting rid of some depth, she discharged one lighter of timber in the river, then she went into the Birkenhead docks, and the result of the operation was that she had to pay the whole of the dock dues of Liverpool as well as those of Birkenhead. This was the operation of the Act of Parliament of the Liverpool dock trustees, and he wished the principle to be brought before the notice of the commissioners. This was no new question, but one which had been debated for many years past. Mr. CHARLES TURNER said the solicitor had explained that this state of things had arisen because the original Liverpool dock trustees had a power of collecting toll wherever a ship was discharged, if she came into the Mersey. The Birkenhead docks got exempted from paying dock toll for all vessels using their docks and discharging there. This was a part of the original grant, it was noziew thing given to them, and when the Birkenhead dock trustees were exempted from paying dock dues to Liverpool, they were quite satisfied with it; but having got that, they now claimed to get some- The commissioners must not go away with the Captain IIooKIE, master of the Birkenhead docks, in ;tanced the case of the Sarah Sands, arriving from Canada few weeks ago. The tide being low she was lightened Pefore going into Birkenhead docks, and that vessel was 3harged the full dues at Liverpool. This he urged was very hard on Birkenhead. No portion of that vessel's cargo ever 3ntered Liverpool, nor had she in any way directly or in- Erectly received any benefit from it, and yet she paid as though she received the whole benefit. The CHAIRMAN : Was a charge made on the cargo ? Captain HOOKIE : No, not on the cargo, but on the ton nage. The town dues were levied on every vessel. Mr. BLACKBURN : The town dues are a different thing. [le then asked had not this arisen from Birkenhead being part of the port of Liverpool although the docks were sepa rate. There was no doubt the application of the act of parliament led to these anomalies. Mr. TURNER : This state of things would arise if it were otherwise. The Birkenhead Dock Trustees have a piece of [and close to our docks, within 100 yards of your docks. Mr. BRAMAH : I beg your pardon, not the dock trustees. They had no property but what was granted to them by the crown. Mr. TURNER continued to remark that this state of things would arise, if they made a dock on this piece of land which they had the power to make. Mr. BRAMAII : I beg your pardon ; it is not your land, Mr. TURNER : It belongs to the Dock Company. Mr. BRAMAH said the Dock Trustees had no more to do with it than he had to do with the land in New Zealand. Mr. POWLES wished the Commissioners to know who the Birkenhead dock trustees were. ing more dea those rates were levied on the Birkenhead docks. It was )art of the old privileges of the Liverpool docks, parliament Laving taken from them the exclusive privilege which they ►reviously had over all vessels entering into port. With .espdct to what had been said with reference to all vessels )eing charged over again on coming into the Liverpool lock, the commissioners ought to be aware there was no lifferential rate charged inwards and outwards ; dues were mly levied in Liverpool docks once. If a vessel came in, md discharged her cargo, she paid no outward dues, and, therefore, arose the distress of coming from Birkenhead, and paying the whole of the dock dues, because they did not pay inwards and outwards ; they only paid once. The CHAIRMAN : The Liverpool dock dues, are they calcu [ated on distance or not. Mr. TURNER : They were to some extent. There were rates For nearer and longer voyages. Mr. BRAMAH remarked that the Birkenhead docks were brought into existence for public purposes. They were a public trust. Nothing was paid but the interest on the money lald uut, um]. same as the Liverpool docks had. What he complained of was that the shipping using Birkenhead dock, although it was pretended to be a part of the port of Liverpool, when they went into the river were treated as if they wore perfect strangers entering the river for the first time, and it mat tered not at all whether the dues were payable in going in or coming out. If the same course was pursued with ships going from one dock to another on the Liverpool side, it would be consistent ; but the anomaly was one which he thought peculiarly a subject for inquiry. Mr. TURNER said the Liverpool docks existed for the benefit of the public, and the moment they got anything beyond the interest accruing on their debt, the dock rates on shipping were reduced immediately, and therefore they had no personal interest to serve in the matter. All they were interested in doing, was that the greatest . possible ac commodation should be afforded to shipping and to commerce, and that those demands which they had incurred (they had an uncovered debt of £5,000,000 of money) should be discharged. The commissioners should understand this, if a vessel going into the Birkenhead dock, and dis charged her inward cargo, if she were to be charged no rates, then she would come over and use their graving docks, made at great expense, and might lay in their docks loading, (though she was discharged in two days,) for two months. Was it reasonable they should claim or ask to use the Liverpool docks, made at this enormous expense, for several weeks, and pay nothing ? That was the object of it, for they had no outward rate. Mr. BRAMAH was not aware of a single ease like that mentioned by Mr. Turner, but he would tell them what occurred to the Birkenhead Trustees every day. Unfortu nately they had no graving docks at Birkenhead; the works being at present incomplete, and the great necessity was, after long voyages, now so frequent, and especially iron vessels after their return from long voyages—it was a matter of necessity that they should go into a graving dock to have their bottoms properly examined. A vessel going from Birkenhead docks to Liverpool, paid for the use of the grav ing dock ; but she had also to pay over again, although she came out of the Liverpool docks as empty as she went in. It was exactly the case that gentleman mentioned. It was note a ship going into dock and taking cargo, it was the peculiar case of going over the water to use the Liverpool graving docks for that purpose alone, and going straight back again, the whole of the dock dues from a distant port were applied for at Liverpool as a matter of necessity. There was a steam company started in Liverpool, the South American Company ; their ships were partly built on the Clyde and partly at Birkenhead, in Laird's yard, and before that company could make their arrangements for the dis charge of their cargoes in the Birkenhead docks, they came to them to know the amount of drawback the trustees would make them on the rates, as it might affect their ships return here, discharging in Birkenhead and coming to Liverpool to use the graving docks. In consequence of having an extra rate to pay, it fell upon them to make a reduction of their rates to meet that charge. Mr. TURNER explained as to the Dock Company that they were different body from the Dock trustees, the one being a Warehouse Company, the other having the management of the water space. The Dock Commissioners had a piece of land near to the docks on the Liverpool side of the water, which under the act of Parliament was also exempted from Dock Dues. Now, if those state of things were permitted, a vessel using to dock might come into the Docks of Liver pool without paying, and making such use of it as they pleased, and they might be deprived of their due altogether so far as they went. This had been argued in' Parliament for years. In the first instance, Birkenhead took this ex emption, and having got this great exemption from the large rights which were originally given to all docks in former times, in a few years they came and tried to drive the wedge a little further home. Parliamentary Committees had hitherto thought that the dues enjoyed by the Liverpool docks were no more than they were entitled to . for the benefit of the port. The CHAIRMAN : There is one point which has been mixed up a little ; the difference which exists between a vessel coming into the Liverpool docks from Fleetwood, and a vessel coming to Liverpool from Birkenhead—have you any explanation to give on that point. Mr. TURNER thought he explained that matter. It arose in this way. There would be no difference if the act of parliament Were not evaded. Vessels coming from Fleet wood in ballast, or from Warrington or any other place, would have to pay the same as from Birkenhead. The act of parliament was so worded, it was impossible to say now for what reason, that if a vessel took a coasting clearance, if she cleared as a coaster, instead of coming in ballast, she was then exempted from dock dues. That was to say, if she took a few casks of provisions nominally over, and took out a coasting clearance, then the Liverpool dock dues were evaded. Birkenhead wanted to evade them in the same Mr. BLACKBURN : Wny not come clearance. I suppose because it is within the port ? Mr. TURNER Just so. It would be an evasion of our ratoe. They want to take adrantago of the slip in the act of parliament. Capt. BETHUNE : Have you any power to impose an out ward rate ? Mr. TURNER : The solicitor will answer that question. Mr. Rom LAMONT as representing the owners of the Sarah, Sands, complained that they had to pay the Liverpool dock dues, in consequence of the vessel being lighter ed in the river. Ile handed in the following correspondence, which had taken place between her owners and the dock com- mittee : " Liverpool, 20th September, 1853 " Dock Committee, " Gentlemen, —We beg to state that the steamer Sarah Sands arrived at this port from Quebec on the 11th inst., consigned to us with a general cargo, destined to be discharged in the Birkenhead Dock, but could not effect this purpose for want of water, and was obliged to go up the river, where, with the consent of the Collector of Customs, she lighted two flat-loads, and afterwards docked at Birkenhead, taking with her the flats into which the portion of her cargo so discharged, was put. I n r eporting the Sirah Sands,our custom-house clerk stated to the treasurer that the steamer was in the Birkenhead Dock, and therefore was not subject to the dockage dues at Liverpool, but the point was urged without effect. t, w e b r ing this matter before you, believing that you will cause the amo a u r n e t of dockage, , Gentlemen, en o t c l e m a 7 114 , £64, Eu Ar to b No ,bet e diie, inAlt "t. refunded erryv,a n a a tonce. servants, Co " Dock ecretary's Office, Liverpool, 23d Sept. Gentlernen,—The Dock Committee having had under their consideration your application of the 20th inst., to have the Dock dues paid on the Sarah Sands, (s.s.), under the circumstances stated therein, refunded; and having received a report from their officers on the case, I am instructed to inform you that the Committee decline to comply with your ap plication. , g I am, Gentlemen, your obedient servant, "DANIEL MASON. The CHAIRMAN did not understand the complaint was as regarded the payment of dock dues when the dock was used; but the complaint was, that vessels really only coming from Birkenhead, had to pay the dues as if she had come from the Brazils. Mr. BRAMAH said, if Birkenhead were the nearest port to Liverpool, consequently the rate should be under the lowest 1 coasting rate. Mr. BLACIBURNE : If a ship were discharged in Birken head, and came over to Liverpool to go into a graving dock, she had to pay more than if she had come from some port out of the Mersey, say Fleetwood ? Mr. BRAMAH : Certainly. Mr. BLACKBURNE : That is the effect you complain of. Mr. BRAMAH : She pays the rate on the most distant foreign voyage. If she came from Australia, she would pay the whole rate over again from Australia to Liverpool. Mr. TURNER said this arose from an anomalous state of things which the commissioners did not quite understand. They did not'pay more than a vessel coming in ballast into Liverpool from any other port would pay. By the old acts of parliament this anomalous state of things arose : a vessel coming in with a coasting clearance, but only, bringing a con 10 them on t' ic. nuneheons of rum or casks of provisions, and land quay, got rid of port and dock dues. It ~. was absurd that a vessel iu 1,4- state paid less than a vessel coming without anything on board. 11.1.-. , irose from a state of things which ought to be removed in some tut,— get. With reference to the graving docks of Liverpool ; they were built for the purpose of accommodating vessels using the Liverpool docks, and Mae charges were put with reference to those vessels paying dock dues. Such was the demand for graving docks now, that they had vessels in dock for a fortnight which could not get the use of a graving dock — vessels which had paid the Liverpool dock dues, and were ring out. Now, this gentleman claimed that vessels com ing from Birkenhead should have the use of those graving docks to keep other vessels, paying Liverpool dock dues, still longer than they were kept. The commissioners would see at once, that in graving docks made for the use of vessels using the Liverpool docks, vessels coming from another place and paying no dock dues, should not keep out those vessels which paid. The latter should have the preference, and at the present moment there were vessels waiting above a fortnight and could not get on. The CHAIRMAN : Would it not be a good reason for in creasing the rates ? Mr, TURNER reminded the commissioners that those vessels port. That was the answer to the whole complaint and di fficulty. If Birkenhead could succeed in obtaining a separa tion from Liverpool, then they would be in the same relative position as Fleetwood or any other foreign port. Mr. BLACKBURN asked what would be the practical differ ence in pounds, shillings, and pence, if Birkenhead were made 'a separate port ? Mr. TANTON, treasurer, was not prepared to answer the question. Some discussion here ensued as to the optional power of the Liverpool dock trustees to charge vessels in- Wards or outwards. Mr. NORTH gave it as his decided opinion that the trus tees had not power to charge outwards. Capt. HOOKIE did not quite agree in that view. A vessel coming from China to Fleetwood, and then from Fleetwood to Liverpool, was charged only on the outward voyage, al though it might be a short one, whilst the same vessel from Birkenhead was charged on the long voyage from the place where she had previously been. The CHAIRMAN remarked that the gain or loss depended on whether the voyage was a long or short one. Cap. HoomE : If the ship had a short voyage they might charge on the long voyage she was going to take. The CHAIRMAN : They can charge on either. Capt. HOOKIE : Yes, but whether legally or not I cannot say. 1 Mr. TURNEs said it ought not to be assumed that China vessels did go to Fleetwood. Mr. BLACKBURN : The difference practically is this ; A vessel coming in of a high class, Birkenhead suffers. If the other way, it does not. Mr. TURNER : The fact was this, if a vessel came from Birkenhead, she was charged inwards, and if she came from a place outside the Mersey, the outward rate. Mr. NORTH wished the commissioners to understand that if a vessel was charged with the inward rate, that fixed the quantity of payment to whatever the extent of her tonnage. If she came from China to Birkenhead, and crossed to Liver pool, she must pay the dues for China. There was fid'incon venience in this. Birkenhead was on the same footing with themselves. Nr. BLACKBURN : You have no option but to charge in- ward. Mr. NORTH Clearly, when the inward rate is charged, that rules the rates entirely. The CHAInMAN : That is a distinct statement, that it is not optional to charge inwards or outwards on the part of the Liverpool dock trustees. Captain HooKIE asked if a vessel arrived from the Medi terranean at Birkenhead, and afterwards e''iased and loaded in Liverpool for China, had not the Liverpool trustees the option of charging the highest rate to China ? Mr. NORTIC: Clearly not. We could not do so —the act is imperative. In practice this construction of the act was adhered to. Mr. SLoomAN said if goods were sent by sea from London to Liverpool they were not charged dues, but if sent from Birkenhead to Liverpool, they paid the same dues as if they came from China. Mr. BLACKBURN; You mean in case of a cargo of foreign goods being carried across the river ? Mr. SLOOMAN : Although the goods may have been twelve months warehoused, they were carged as if they were new arrivals in the country. Mr. NORTH: Any other state of things would be a direct evasion of the dock laws. The CHAIRMAN observed there was a positive statement to the effect that it was not optional to charge inwards or outwards on the part of the of the dock committee of Liver pool, and if parties were in position to prove practically it was otherwise, they would hear the evidence or it might be communicated by letter. It was clear from what the com missioners had heard, that if any such thing had occurred, it was contrary to what the Liverpool trustees believed to be the law, and therefore, the commissioners could not doubt a representation to the trustees would receive immediate atten tion. Mr. SLOOMAN contended that the act of parliament left it optional with the trustees which way they charged. Mr. BRA.MAR said there were one or two things not as they ought to be. First, he was desirous that the Com missioners should have a distinct notion who were the dock trustees of Birkenhead, and who were the Dock Company. After,explaining how those two distinct bodies were con constituted, he proceeded to say the real question in this case, "reciprocity" had been avoided. This subject had been talked of, and argued since April, 1847. They simply asked that the Birkenhead Docks should be put on the same footing as any other part of England, with reference to Liverpool or any other port in Great Britain, as London, Pleetwood, or Newcastle ; they only asked, as it had been so complacently asserted, it was a part of the port of Liver peol, that it should be treated as such. Let them take the Geographical rank to which they are entitled. The question of reciprocity was never before the Committee of the House of Commons. There had been reciprocity clauses introduced in the bills, but he deeply regretted that his predecessors had withdrawn those clauses from the bills for fear of arous ing the opposition of a body so powerful as the Liverpool Dock Committee. He trusted he had made those points clear, and he again repeated he made no complaint; but it was unjust, and they thought if the facts were laid before the parties who had hereafter to deliberate on them, they "..1. 8 1.t fp + +llO ralinf thoy wantpd. Mr. TURNER said with regard to reciprocity, it had been several time in their bills, and it hid been inciaentia.ny auuaea to by their counsel, in his opening speech, but the question hadbeen con sidered by the members of the committee. They had a bill in parliament the year before last in which there was a reciprocity clause, but it was ultimately withdrawn. It formed the subject of conversation between members of the committee. But when they looked to the justice of this case, there was very little fairness in the arguments used. There was a compauy at Birkenhead with one very small dock, and they claimed to make any use they pleased of docks which • cost £10,000,000, and they called that reci procity. Was there anything like reciprocity in that, when they knew their ships would not use their docks. It was true they had the option of going to Birkenhead, but they did not want to go . there. They had no graving dock, or no advantage to give in return, and yet they wanted to come and use their docks, and dignified this with the name of reciprocity. Nothing could be more unfair than an argument of that kind. Mr. PowLEs said they wanted to be treated as other ,eople were. The CHAIRMAN should be loath to stop the discussion ; but ho thought the whole of the facts were before the com missioners. He believed very few vessels were discharged in the Mersey. Mr. TURNER said large vessels were lightened in the river, but he did not think in any case a vessel was wholly discharged in the river. Mr. BLACKBURN : Is there a dock higher up the river ? Mr. TURNER said there was a dock at Garston. In reply to a question from the chairman. Mr. NORTH said vessels discharging any part of their cargo in the stream, were liable fur the whole of dock dues on the tonnage, but not on the cargo. It was also explained that the Birkenhead dock trustees had no personal interest whilst the dock company was a company with a private interest, incorporated by act of parliament. Mr. LAMONT complained that goods coming from London to Birkenhead, were charged with the Liverpool town ~ Messrs. M'Kean, M'Larty, & Co." dues. After some conversation of a desultory nature had Mr. PowLEs again complained that Liverpool, an univer- taken place, and some documents had been handed in, 11 port, should admit a vessel from Fleetwood at 11 the enquiry, so far as related to the dock estate, closed. per ton, and charge a much higher rate on a vessel from THE TOWN DUES. Birkenhead. The Birkenhead docks come into existence The CHAIRMAN ; We received last night a schedule of because it was believed that in national point of view they dues which are levied by the corporation. The limits withir would be conducive to the extension of trade. He knew which they were stated to be levied, is from the red 'stow there was an old act of parliament which rendered the on the Cheshire coast at Hoylake all over the waters of the Mersey subject to Liverpool, so that she could levy her Mersey, and northward to the junction of the river Douglas dues, but that had been invaded to a moderate extent, and with Ribble. Those are the limits, are they not ? statutes must give way as well as every thing else, Par- The TOWN CLERK : Yes. [A map was then handed in liament admitted that by its proceedings, and they claimed which was proved to be correct at the trial relative to till as high a ground in a public point of view as the Liverpool right of the corporation to levy town dues, which showe docks. The Liverpool docks sprung out of the circumstances that the jurisdiction included the whole of the Mersey, an( and exigencies of the times, and the Birkenhead docks in went up to Warrington.] their generation claimed that principle to themselves, as The CHAIRMAN asked if on the trial to which the tows much as Liverpool. There was no private interest in clerk reared, the title of the corporation to the town due Birkenhead docks, unless the rtceipt of 6 per cent. on the was not 'distinctly proved to the satisfaction to the courl outlay was called, a private interest in the sense intended. and they kot a verdict. Unfortunately no dividend had been as yet received. The TOWN CLERK : Yes. Mr. TURNER was sorry that Mr. Powles advocated as a The CHAIRMAN : The amounts received by the corporatio principle that the Birkenhead dock trustees should take and the mode in which they were expended, appears in th advantage of a plain defect which existed in an old act of borough fund account ? parliament. There had been so few vessels coming from TowN CLERK : Yes. Fleetwood and other places, it was not thought necessary to The CHAIRMAN, who was under the impression that th go for the alteration of the act ; but if it were brought to town dues were reducing, was set right by the town clerl bear on a place like Birkenhead, they should go to parlia- who said the accounts for the present year (which the chair ment to have the anomaly corrected in the act of parliament man believed he had, and that they showed in decrease which the Birkenhead dock trustees wished to take advan- were hot yet printed; but would be ready in a few day tage of. . They showed an increase in the:previous year. The CHAIRMAN did not quite understand it so. He The CHAIRMAN asked were there any exceptions to the! understood the complaint was entirely to the operation of town dues ? the existing Act of Parliament The TowN CLERK said the exceptions were the freeme Mr. BR/N.514M considered in one point of view they were of Liverpool, Bristol, London, Wexford, and Waterford, re more hardly treated by Liverpool than they were able to sident in town, but they were aware they were dying out. bpar. It was principally that affected them. The CHAIRMAN asked could the Town Clerk give them any Mr. TURNER : Not if they came in ballast in the same information as to what was the value of those exemptions to way ; but they were more hardly troatod being within the the freemen of Liverpool. port of Liverpool, they were not able to evade the Act of The TowN CLERK could not say. It would depend or Parliament as others were. It was just whether they the amount of business which the houses were doing. should have the power of evading it as others had. The CHAIRMAN : They were not charged and remitted. Captain BETHUNE :If a vessel came in ballast from The TowN CLERK : They were not charged at all when Fleetwood would you charge as much as if she came from the parties were known to be freemen. Sometimes it oc the furthest end of the world—that is if she came from curred that one of the partners of the house was a freeman India ,oo to Ale o T Fleetwood, oc end then came in ballast from Fleet- and the goods were paid for in the name of the whole firm , ‘d t Mt BOLD : If she came from Fleetwood she would be pauardtnthere,sreitnutniere charged .I.!‘a Mr. PowLEs Der ton. wass aidst. made how aaccordings awareo of t o n n t the proportion t,lnee whle r o o f o the n( Captain Bri..--, NE : If she went to Birkenhead, unloaded p ar t ner ' s s h are o f thi s exem ption was worth £ l5O per there, and came from Birkenhead here, what would she be annum . • charged ? Mr. BLACKBURN asked if the mode of collection wouh Mr. BOLD : 18d. a ton. Thu. was th e b ear i ng o f it. enable them to tell the amoun t th a t would be levied. Let them take London, from which vesso- more frequently The TowN CLERK thought not, but he would endeavour. came to Liverpool. There Was no evasion v: +he Act of if possible to find it out. Parliament at all, as the custom was to get into the L,..t,• „ 0 , , ' 'qr. IURNER remarked that very few of the freemen were trade by bringing a clearance from London, which dray -*nzao•ed in mercantile business ; they were principally could not get at Birkenhead. If the London vessel loaded trauZ- ~.,. . Mr. -r.---3 1E of the firm of Holme, Slater, and Crook, in their docks they charged her again, which they would 11- gtili •-. ' 3 -7 had to pay town dues on all the wood not be able to do to the Birkenhead people, according to complained than d although the vessel came direct the Act of Parliament at present. The CHAIRMAN: They have the power of charging on:oassine the entries at the loadinutwards. Custom House they had to pay tne they received a abroad.t B. i k e --rn dues of Liverpool. Mr. NORTH remarked that Mr. Blackburn had hit the • The CHAIRMAN observed it was stated he return there right point, It arose from Dirkenhead being within the was no xesponsitility imposed (Who Corporath,..,, B the re. ceivers of the town dues. Nor was there But there was some responsibility subsequently devolved on them, in regard to the conservation of the Mersey. It was not given the general receivership of the dues. The TOWN CLERK said the act was passed at the solicita tion of the Corporation, it being deemed advisable to have some independent person to conserve the river. He was paid jointly by the Corporation and Dock Committee. Mr. LAMONT remarked that goods received at Birkenhead by rail for Manchester and other places, were charged with Liverpool town dues, although they never came to Liver pool. The CHAIRMAN : That was because they were shipped at Birkenhead, not because they came by rail. The TOWN CLERK said Mr. Lamont meant they never came into Liverpool, speaking of it as a building, but they came within the jurisdiction. Mr. BRAMAH objected to the payment of those town dues, and argued that whilst rights were exercised over Birken head as an integral part of Liverpool, it should be treated as such in every respect. Captain BETIIIISR asked what amount of town dues wero received at Birkenhead. Mr. TURNER said the entries were made at the custom• nd it was not stated where the goods were em- barked. The TowN CLERK remarked that the gentlemen at Bir- kenhead had commenced a speculation with a full knowledge of what they would have to pay. They entered into the speculation with certain liabilities, and having entered into them they were now anxious to remove a part of the respon- sibility from their own shoulders afterwards. Mr: LAMONT said that in the case of a vessel loading in the docks for Aberdeen, the goods sent by that vessel paid town dues, and goods sent by railway paid no dues. Mr. BLACKBURN said the dues existed only over sea .oods. There was no town dues on goods sent by The TOWN CLERK : We used to have one : but not now. The CHAIRMAN : Are maximum rates levied ? The Tower CLERK : Not in all cases.. Certain composi tions on certain goods. [The Town Clerk here handed in the various resolutions of the committee managing those compositions.] The Chairman : Is there any drawback on goods to export The Towx CLERK : No, except dues were paid inwards. and if they were exported by the same owners, and continued the same property, they did not pay outward. Mr. LAMBERT : Said that on any hides going to London or other places, the town.dues amounted to 3s. 4d. per ton. This charge prevents steamers altogether competing with the railway. The TOitilst CLERK said:the council would be exceedingly glad if they had power to make modifications from time to time, subject to the approval of the Lords of the Treasury ; but at present no charge could be made without the consent of the majority in number and amount of the present credi tors, who were spread all over the kingdom, and the very moving of the question might cause alarm. The largest bond they had was for £25,000, but a great majority of them varied from £lOO to £5OO. They had no outstanding debt to the Exchange Corn Commissioners, because they could borrow money from private individuals, at a lower rate. Goods shipped, or put into lighters, were not charged. the town dues again, as they were not expected. Town. duties were not charged on goods going by canal ; but in. going to Glasgow they would be charged. Mr. LAMONT : But not if sent by rail ? The TowN CLERK : No. A conversation then ensued as to the mode in which duties were levied on goods, &c, by the dock committee and also as to whether some general principlec could not be adopted applicable to all shipping ports. During the con versation it was stated the Albert Dock was the cheapest dock in the kingdom, where labour was supplied, the ratio being as 10s. per ton on the article of rice in the Albert and ss. bier ton ;in the London Docks. ;he proceedings terminated shortly after one o'clock In the course of a few days a Privy Council will held by her Majesty, for the purpose of settling the period the further prorogation of Parliament, which at present ands for the 27th of the present month. It appears, from a return lately issued, that on Le 18th of April there were in gaols, houses of correction, e, in England, 20,143 prisoners. PROPOSED ASYLUM FOR IDIOTS.—It was announced by advertisement and circular, that a public meeting would be held yesterday, at twelve o'clock, in the Town Hall, Manchester, "for the purpose of considering the propriety of establishinc , in this part of the. kingdom an asylum for the care and establishing of idiots." It was announced that the Right Rev. the Bishop of Manchester, would preside on the occasion. We have the best authority for stating that the Right Rev. Prelate recommended that the meeting should not be held at present, - being under the impression that sufficient interest is not yet felt in the question to war rant such a proceeding. The anticipations of the Right Rev. Prelate turned out to be correct, for only four or five gentlemen came to the place of meeting, which was con sequently dissolved without any business being transacted. Mr. Southam, the honorary secretary of the movement, pxhibited specimens of writing and knitting performed by inmates of the bath Institution for idiots. TT-ir MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS IN MANCHESTER AND SALFORD.—The ensuing nioon , ipcit --h; P h ta k e p l ace on the first of November next, excite considerable interest in several of the wards of both Manchester and Salford, in which severe contests are expected. The following hints for the guidance of electors have been issued by the moderate Liberal party .—l. Avoid pledges, and vote for no candidate who does not reside, or carry on business in the ward, unless no other person can be procured. 2. With°ld your votes from any candidate, whose supporters have recourse to the disreputable and illegal practice of laying wagers, in order to defeat the election of a competitor. 3. Give no countenance to any can didate whose private character is known to be immoral. 4. Credit no written, printed, or verbal statements intended to da mage an opposing candidate, unless they are confirmed by one or more respectable citizens whose veracity is unquestionable. 5. On no account vote for any candidate whose agents or sup porters adopt the coercive or intimidating system of canvassing, now so prevalent, 6. Specially abstain from voting for any candidate whose conduct in the council is likely to be influenced by pecuniary motives, or by political and party considerations. 7. Vote for no candidate who will not openly give a reasonable assurance, that he will use every le gitimate means in his power to promote the good and economical government of the city, to secure the moral and intellectual culture of the people, and to advance the temporal prosperity all classes of society. GREAT MEETING AT FINSBURY ON THE TURKISH —On Tuesday evening a densely crowded public TSTION -eeting of the inhabitants of Finsbury - took place at the Music-hall, Store-street, Bedford-square, for the purpose of calling upon Her Majesty's Government to aid the Turks in compelling the Russians to evacuate the Danubian Prin cipalities. Mr. T. S. Duncombe, M. P., presided, and in an eloquent speech warmly espoused the cause of Turkey, and denounced the conduct of Russia. Mr. Shaen then proposed and Dr. Epps seconded the following resolution, which was carried unanimously :—" That the invasion of the Turkish. empire by Russia is not only a wanton and unprovoked outrage, but a violation of international law, and we therefore call on the Government to assist the Turks in compelling the Russian army immediately to evacuate the Danubian provinces." In the course of his observations, Mr. Shaen said that the speech of Mr. Cobden at Edinburgh was enforced by five argu ments. The first and second were beside the question, and. were what was popularly known as " tubs thrown to the whale ;" the third was the argument of a coward ; the fourth, the argument of a hypocrite ; and the fifth, the ar gument of a demon. The next resolution, which was also carried unanimously, was as follows :—" That the constant and systematic encroachments of Russia upon all her neigh bours, manifest a design to extinguish both national inde pendence and popular Qovernment, are fraught with danger not only to the peace of Europe,.but to the liberties of this country, and demand both excessive vigilance and active re sistance." The third and last resolution was :—" That the system of secret diplomacy is calculated to mislead the people of this country, and has enabled the British Cabinet to assist continental despotism, while professing a zeal for constitutional government." The proceedings terminated with the usual vote of thanks to the chairman. ...- ENGLISH PATENTS. - The following Patents amongst others were sealed during the week ending October 15th, 1853 :—John Chadwick, of Manchester, Silk Manu facturer and Thomas Dickins, of the Spring Vale Wo rks, near Middleton, Silk Dyer, for improvements in the pro duction of raw and thrown Silk. Dated 14th April, 1853. — George Albemarle Cater, of Selby, Gentleman. for improve ments in Machinery for preparing flax, hemp, and other vegetable fibrous substances for scutching or other manufac turing processes. Dated 16th April, IBs3.—William E Newton, of London, Engineer, for improvements in treating refuse silk waste, and in converting it into a valuable pro duct ; A communication from abroad. Dated 15th April, 1853. - William 11fac Naughton, of Aberdeen, Manufacturer, for improvements in printing Yarns or Worsteds for weaving Carpets, also in printing Carpets, Woollen Silk Cotton, and other textile fabrics or fibrous substances. Dated 18th April, 1853. Thomas Newey, of Birmingham, Tool Maker, for improvements in fastenings for articles of Dress. Dated 19th of April, 1853. Thomas Dunn, of Windsor Bridge Iron-works, Pendleton, near Manchester, Engineer, for improvements in, and applicable to boilers or apparatus for generatino. Steam, and in apparatus connected therewith. Dated 21seApril, 1853. —Jerome Andre Drieu, of Bowdon, Machinist, for improve ments for cutting' the pile of velvet, velveteens, and other piled fabrics. Dated 22nd April, 1853.—William Johnson, of Farnworth, near Bolton-le-Moors, Manager, for im provements in machinery, for preparing and spinning cotton and other fibrous substances. Dated ' 27th April, 1853. — Colin Mather, of Salford, for improvements in apyaratus used in bleaching. Dated 29th April, 1853.—Thomas Wood, Cotton-spinner, and George Wade, Machinist, both of Sowerby-bridge, for improvements in machinery or ap. paratus, for opening, cleaning, carding, or otherwise pre paring Cotton, or other fibrous materials to be spun. Dated 18th July, 1853.—Peter Fairbairn, of Leeds, Machinist, for improvements in Leckling Machines. Dated 18th August, 1853.—Henry Blake, of Brighton, Railway Carriage Build. er, for improvements in Railway Brakes, Dated 12th 1853.