Northern Times. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-01-13 00:00:00

CE. in which. T of the td will be 11 preside ion. E 1 o Jones in llope .rran, and cture was Lpelled ,to e a moat tl School lecture, 1 frequeot [mks was t with .tore of - Perko's' aii{. It Os nunsf ;ttegi ednesdif lent WO, 1, one of to bee mg man r is said, Three e knife, 'White, ther, for, hirge ()Mgt.° weather , 'red and w ore will be, dsoa, (" ition' hat 00 ressilif Ptati°° 161 Iv°, rincip cnt Ind th e (1 in retur o p 3 that )8, nation' numb lA.: tli, sta te WOO`, [llt ill battu; hal ° Lobe! in the FATAL ACCIDENT LATEST PARTICULARS, nor itb ° Of Shr 1 tbi put too much bricks, &c., on .. tbe floor. II assured that there was no dancer. whir.h. IN GREAT GEORGE-STREET. l esterday morning crowds of people collected in front of the house, and much anxiety prevailed, as a report , was e current that some persons were still missing. workmen were employed all night in, re ti!'"int,' the ruins, and searching ',for, any bodies, that Might be underneath. The first . care, ' however, was to' Put th e p r em i ses in proper order, so as to prevent further acc id ent, a n d the directions of igr. Newland, the borou g h engineer and the borough surveyor were , Promptly attended to. BeaMs of timber were thrown; across the back portion of the shop and- supported: hOri- Znntal pieces laid against th . e.walls, so as to prevent.their falli ng, kit it was believed the side walls were firm " o ugh. The men cont i nued the i r exert i ons t h rough the night, and, in the course of their operations, they got out three dead bodies, namely, Eliza Jones, - 27, .Wolfe-street; arid Meredith Jones, a clerk in the establishment. The body of a man, supposed to be-John Ellis; a 'loiner, was also got out. In the early part of the evening, two females were r emoved to the Southern Hospital, dead. These were the fiisf bodies taken out. They were identified at Ilate• hour: as Mother and daughter, .the former named Elizabeth Murray, aged 48, widoW. of an outfitter, living, at Oldham-terrace' , Oldhamstreet, and the latter, Jannett i _kurray, 15 years age. nad • -These poor creatures gu is e out to p urc ha se li nen to* make a shirt fur Airs. Murray's son, and the girl was taking home ofineflour for deMestic'.purpoSes:, Martha Ellis, the wife 9 ' a retired professional- gentleman, who resides at 272, P ark -road,: was got out of the ruins, but, fortunately, more frightened than hurt. Mrs. Il an, a German lady, living at 49, Upper Parli ament -street, Was 'die got out, luckily,iunhurt, but both ladies received_sovPrehack3,_ but we are glad to say, that they are quite-recovered. • P'rsons THE WOUNDED Who THE most severely, are Bartland Smith / and James Blackburn, two men engaged work, and William . Owens, an assistant in the shop. They narrowly escaped with their lives, and are at present in the Southern Hospital, where every attention is being paid to them, and at present, Unless more unfavourable symptoms set in, there is very hope of their ultimate recovery. A number. of persons, some ten or twelve It is stated,'were hurt more or less, but not of consequence to require medical treatment, as the injuries were. only . slight bruises and scratches. The interest throughout the town yesterday,, in Tigard to this sad affair, had not. abated, and as the morning advanced 'the people began to , collect about •the place. During the night, Inspector Acton and a bady►of police — officers, kept , the place; but the crowd .continued nearly all night. In the morning Inspector Gregg and another body of officers replaced kr. Acton, and Chief Superintendant Quick was in at tendance. The workmen continued their exertions, inside all night; but, with the exception of the persons named, who were, unfortunately, killed and wounded, no other bodies were fOUnd, although it was supposed that one at least, was missing. By eleven o'clock yesterdy morning, the debris was ne ar ly - all got out, and it was pretty certain that no person re.. wined under the ruins.. THE APPEARAIiCE OF THE PREMISES, YESTERDAY, was melancholy, and on viewing the extent of the damage, and considering the number of workmen engaged, and the people in the shop, and the position of the falleri 'Firtion 'of the place, it is almost miraculous that more lives were noilost. We were:infermed that there is no further danger' to be apprehended frOm the preMises, as Mr. Lewis stated that every precaution has been taken, and the.direetionti of the town surveyor and engineer have been strictly observed, as to putting the place in safety. THE PROBABLE CAUSE OP THE ACCIDENT. It has been stated outside that Mr. Lewis was conduct ing the work himself, without the aid of a professional person. Mr. Lewis informed our reporter yesterday that such was not the case : he is assisted by Mr. M'Caig, and under his direction the work was going on. The latter gentleman drew the plans, and the back part of the premises that are finished; and also that portion in progress; have been pronounced as good and safe building as any in England.. The following facts will show that . as far -as human foresight could go, every precaution had been taken, and that there was -no more reason to apprehend danger, than there was at any period of the progress of the work. The back portion of the premises have been erected in galleries like, with a glass roof, for the purposes of Mr. Lewis's business. In order to connect the front portion of the house with the back, room by room of the former had to be removed. This was done very cautiously and eight had been successfully got over by laying the old materials on the next floor, until removed. The ninth was the last fatal floor that gave way, and resulted in the melancholy acci klent. About half-past eleven, Mr, Lewis went to this floor where the men were working, and gave them special orders, as was his custom daily, to be ca u ti ous , an d no t to says lie was .most likely the men believed, for otherwise they.would not endanger their own lives. Mr. Lewis then went out about his business, and returned just at the time of the catastrophe. It seems that the floor would have probably held out as the previous eight had done, but it being the last, and is surmised, wanting some sup port, and the places where the chimneys were, pressing at at each side, the centre gave way, and of course the whole went down, and coming on the next, gained force and weight in ,the fall, so the entire mass went 'crashing into the shop and cellar carrying all before it. Mr. Lewis is quite overwhelmed with sorrow, and .says he cares nothing about his own loss, which must be considerable, compared with the loss of life that has so untimely taken place. Altogether, it is a melancholy sight to look on and melan choly in its results. yesterday morning, Mr. RishtOn, town surveyor, and Mr. Newlands, the engineer, visited the place, and, as we arc informed, were satisfied that there was no further danger to be apprehended from any portion of the premises coming down. AFFLICTION OF RELATIONS The friends of the deceased persons are in deep affliction, and some of them were seen about the premises weeping bitterly. Others attended at the Hospital, and yet others at the coroner's court, to give all the informa- tion they possess regarding their 'frien'is WEDNESDAY EVEN I\ We have given in detail, all the particulars regard ing the melancholy and fatal accident in Great George -street. Little remains to be added. Of course there were some incidents that would necessarily . ( . s .!'eaP o observation and recording at th e momen t. 'Jae fact we have learned, and it shows the power of cool self - possessi on which caused at least two lives to be saved. One of the young men in the place had just completed a sale to a lady, and was taking the Money to the place where the cash-taker sits. He °at as usual, "cash," but not seeing the cash taker in his box, he lepked about, and happening to look up at the ceiling, he actually saw it coming down. He made a rush backwards towards the front door, grasped one of the young ladies who was behind the counter, in his arms, swept her out, and also another lady, a customer in the shop, and before he had reached the door, the whole falling flooring had come down in the very place where the parties had been just standing. In all probability, the three persons would have been killed, but for the wonderful presence of mind of this young man, who not only saved his own, but two other lives at the same time. We think his name ought to be published, but with the modesty of a truly gave fellow, he will not permit it —well, his reward i3 in his own conscience. , L . k) to seven o'clock last rlght, our 'reporter made 414tury, and so far, there 7fas nothing new to report at the havi - no been P. of safe. We refrain, as usua l , usingom any of the rumours that Were afloat3' sterd - ay, the more particularly as P THE INQUEST N rill take place this day. The Coroner has summoned a :PIT to meet on the case this day. The hour for the agsernblin g of the ju r y is half-pa s t eleven, but from the nature of the case, and the number of witnesses that must necessa r il y be examined, there is hardly a chance the ca se concluding this day. The details of the whole C I ar Will be elicited in the inquiry, and as the matter is judice, we cannot say more Ala the inquest. TOWN COUNCIL The adjourned 'meeting Of :the Council was held at eleven o'clock, in the Town Hall, yesterday. The Mayor, William Preston, Esq , presided. • COURTS OF LAW At(D sic. GEORGE'S MALL colistrrtm 'This committee had had'before them.an offer made in the case of Mr. Potter's claims for the brass doors in St: , George's Hall, The Town •Clerk read the cor respondence. between Mr. Coleridge and Mr. Millward, and the committee having considered J the subject, declined to consent to any compromise, ',thinking it better to abide the decision Of the arbitrator, Mr. Baron Channel. The 'resolution of the health Committee, drawing attention to the dangerons condition of certain houses in the vicinity of Lime-street, was, laid before the committee, who directed the surveyor to obtain an' esti mate of the cost of that part of the property belonging to. them. The 'letter of Mr. Banner, requesting a recon sideration of the resolution charging the sum of £l5 16s tb the Orphan Boys' • Asylum,. ~ ,for, the , use of St. George's Hall, .had been before the committee, who resolved to adhere to their resolution of the 25th of November, and not to recommend the Council to remit the charge. Mr. Alderman Parker moved:that the proceedings be confirmed. - . Mr. Earle - seconded the motion. Mr. JohnsOn asked why a suspension of the works had taken PlaVe at the north end of St. GeoigeLi Hall, where the levels were being altered at the lower end of Islington, and also. at the portion opposite' the. old ' _lslington market. " The , work was left off there, and 'there was no parapet by which. persons could get in . a line from London Road down. Shaw's Brow without walking. through the mud, and dire of the road. . . • _ Mr. l'arker said,, the levels at the north end were under the . consideration of the purveyor and Mr. Newlands, and they were about to arrano.e how they Were to be. completed. They had been in. London last week, other wise the subject would have :been before the last meeting of 'the committee. • .. Mr. 'Jeffery said, he had been favoured, by the courtesy. of the chairman of the committee, Mr. Turner, with copy of a resolution passed, with reference to the refresh ments supplied at St. George's Hall. That afforded him an opportunity of . communicating with the parties in the neighbourhood ; and that morning a deputation waited upon him to ask the. Council through him to refer the question back to the committee, with a view to a con ference beteen the parties in the neighbourhood and the committee, that the spirit - of the resolution may have effect given to it, but not precisely in the form in which it appeared upon the books. , The .Mayor said, the resolution to which Mr. Jeffery zeferred, did not come proPerly before the Council,' as the committee only met last weck. • Mr. Jeffery : Then', it will come on at the next Council. The Mayor : Yes. The proCeedings were then confirmed, MARKET COMNITTEI The proceedings of the Markets Committee were read, but referred only to matters of routine: Mr. Jeffery asked if a memorial had not been received from some of the country people with reference to market accommodation? The Mayor : Yes, there has. Mr. Jeffery : Will you let it be. read, Mr. Mayor ?, The Mayor : Yes, it shall be read. The memorial was then sent for, and read by the Town Clerk : It was signed by a large number of farmers and market gardeners, and drew attention to the deficient accommodation in Queen-scinare and'fo the serials in convenience and hardships to which the memorialists were subjected from the spaces, which, not lowg ago, accommo dated 150 or 200 market carts, but which would now only accoMmeidate 6.1; -and to secure a stand amongst the favoured few, it was necessary to take up a position on the Thursday preceding the Saturday's market, which caused a serious expense and a loss of time. As a remedy, the memorialists suggested the removal of some property oft the west side of the space now occupied. Mr. Jeffery moved that the memorial be referred to the Markets' Committee. Alderman Parker seconded the motion. He considered it was a very cruel case for people who came to the market the year round to be compelled to leave home on the Thursday evening, in order to secure a place for the Saturday's market. If a small charge were made by the month, the space would let remarkably well; and when persons hired a ,place in which to stand for the month, they would not find it necessary to come to the market before the ordinary time. , Alderman Bennett said this was a matter of great im portance in a sanitary point of view, as the prooluce was liable to effervesce and deteriorate in quality by lying in the 'carts from Thursday to Saturday. Mr. James Holme said there was a financial difficulty in the way ; and unless the finance committee were prepared to find the means of getting the inconvenience remedied, it was impossible for them to get out of the trouble. Alderman Gardner said, the owners of property were not only ready but willing to pay any reasonable sum to assist in remedying the inconvenience, and they would not offer any objection to a plan, for that purpose, being carried out. Mr. Johnson said the committee were quite willing to have the Matter referred to them, and would give it their careful ccinsideration, becluSe they had long felt the importance of the want of a wholesale market in Liver pool. (Hear, hear.) Ho moved that it be referred to the committee, and that the proceJdiugs of the committee, as read, be confirmed. Mr. Woodruff seconded the motion, which was carried. EDUCATION' COMMITTEE Thuroceeiings of this committee were read, from which it appeared th•it, in the month of December, the number that hid attended the North School was 1,650, and the South School 1,623. The committee recom mended that the salaries of William Iguett be increased from £3O to £lO per annum, and that of Thomas Robins from £lO to £5). A vote of thinks had been passed to the Society of Arts for having allowed the children to visit their exhibition. Mr. Anderson moved that the increase of salaries be allowed to stand over until the next Coun cil. Some people had supposed that the case that recently came before the magistrates had some thing to do with the corporated schools. That had been publicly contradicted by. Mr. Harris, master of the north school, in one of the new3papers ; and he (Mr. Anderson), thought it advisable to contradict it again. Alderman Gardner recorded the motion, which -was carried. The proceedings of the committee, with this exception were then confirmed. GAOL AND HOUSE OF CJAAECTION COMNIITTP4 The proceedings of this committee were read, and con tained a report from the governor, upon a suggestion for introducing steam power for manufacturing purposes into the prison. The governor stated, he was of opinion that it would not be desirable to apply steam power for manufacturing . purposes, either in this or any other prison, for various reasons which he stated. The governor was directed to send a copy of the report to Mr. Brown, and was authorised to engage a warder in the place of Miss Hancock. The committee also reported that the chaplain had enquired whether a prisoner sentenced to penal servitude and who had not been removed to a Government establishment was to come under the regulations of the Secretary'of State, Sir G. Grey ; if so, there was one prisoner who had not been removed, and who had, un doubtedly, been in a worse position than if she had been removed—who would be entitled to be discharged in January next. Two other prisoners would have been in the same position, had not their misconduct disqualified them. Mr. Anderson, in moving the confirmation of the proceedings, said,. Mr. Brown's excellent letter and suggestions had received the attention of the committee and the governor, but they were of opinion that steam power could not be introduced under the present system ; and he believed Mr. Brown was quite satisfied that it could not be done in the gaol. It might . possibly be introduced into some of the large state prisons, and it was certainly a very important' point to call attention to —the question of making prison labour remunerative, if possible—and it had always engaged the attention of the oominittee, but it was a question which involved conside rable difficulty. Mr. Alderman Dover seconded the confirmation of the proceedings, which was carried. TOWS HALL ESTABLISHMENT COMMITTEE Mr. Alderman Ilolme, in moving the confirmation of the proceedings, begged to explain, in reference to a question pnt at the last meeting by Mr. Cropper, as to the employment of climbing boys to clear the chimneys of the town Hall, that he was informed by the keepers that, with the exception of one or two chimneys, which were very large, boys were not employed. The Surveyor, hoWever, had been directed to make a report. , • Mr. dropper : I suppose the Surveyor will report to the next meeting. Mr. Holme : Certainly. The proceedings were then confirmed. LIBRARY AND MUSEUM COMMITTEE. The proceedings of this Committee were read. • Mr. Picton said, before moving their confirmation, there was one special matter which ought to be brought under the notice of the Council. He alluded to the ra te propoied for the gardens and museum. The estiulato) which the committee had Aimed, stood thus calculatino• the expenditure from the iirervio4s- year. calculating amount required in each department; was, for , The Botanic 'Gardens £1,500, :for the Derby Museum £1,250, for the Central Library 1 £2;300, Of the lending Library '.£1,750, making a total a £6,800. He should - be glad to answer any questions that might be asked, but it became his duty to move that a rate not exceeding one penny in the pound be levied, under the provisions of " The Library and Museum Act 1855." The motion was unanimously agreed to. Mr. Karin then moved the confirmation of the pro ceedings. Carried unanimously. WATER. COMMI TYEE The proceedings of this committee were read Mr. Hodson - moved:their•confirmation. • Mr. James Ikolme.secondecl the Inotion. Mr. Earle said he did not second the proceedings bacausebe had an animulment to. move. It was, that so much - of' the proceedings of , the water ; committee as related ,to the exclusive:supply of water from Rivington for one month, be not confirmed, but that when the reesrcoirs are full, 'it should be ,reported to the committee, in 'order that the • council might, direct , the:manner in which the supply , of water should be . given to the. town. It 'might appear somewhat unusual in the deputy-chairman of the committee to propose an amendment, but the manner in which the resolution was carried was very unusual. He was happy to say it was so, for he did not think it was very creditable to the parties who carriedit ; and he hoped .the. Conneil - would be cif the same opinion: There was an amendment moved on the occasion referred to—moved by himself .-to the same .effect as =that he now proposed That amendment was put, and was carried by the casting vote of the chairman. One gentleman who voted for the amendment was then called away on biisiness,:' and,, supposing that, the question had been definitively settled, he left the robin: <The , : chairman, however, had :neglected 'to put the question as a substantive motion before that gentleman walked out. A gentleman whom he (Mr. Earle) had in his'eye now, with very great:alacrity jumped up . and whispered • something into the, ear-of another '' crentlenrin, and that led to an amendment being proposed, which' the gentleman had a perfect right to do, but whether it was very creditable, he should leave the Council to judge ; and, of course, in the absence of the gentleman who had gone out, that amendment was carried. It was ' precisely the same proposition as that which he made originally with some heeltap added just to make a difference. Now, that proceeding surprised him, beause the g entlemen to whom he was alluding was a liberal of the first water. (Hear, hear.) He knew that persons of that character piqued them selves upon doing right in all things.:. They could not err. (Laughter.) In the commonest things,of life they were-upright, straightforward -no guile, no deceit what ever in them. • (Laughter.) He believed that was the creed of a liberal par excellence. Therefore, he felt rather surprised that such a thing should have come from, such a quarter, and he had no doubt that his liberal friends around him would participate in . that surprise. :With these observations, he begged to propose the amendment. Mr. Rae seconded the amendment. He believed it was owing to' his having left the committee room on the day in question-that the resolution was.ultimately carried. He considered the proceeding informal. When he left the committee room,, the amendment had been put and 'carried, and `the chairman had proceeded to ,the other business of the day. Under any circumstances, however, he thought it was a question which ought to come di rectly before the Council for decision. It was a very important one, and he should like to see it decided by the whole Council. Mr. Alderman Parker supported the amendment, be cause he was perfectly satisfied the reservoirs never would be full. He gave Mr. Earle great credit for the manner in whioh, as an old tactician, he had contrived to frame his amendment. When the reservoirs were full they were to have the water. Mr. Earle knew that never could be accomplished. He knew it was not possible to be accomplished by the present means. What were they going to parliament for, but to seek for powers to obtain more water to fill the reservoirs ? They could not fill them at present. The committee know it, and the chairman knew it. They were going to parlia ment to obtain further powers, in order that they might fill the reservoirs with water. Mr. J. R. Jeffery' said : Mr. Mayor, it will naturally be expected that such a pointed referenee having been made to myself, on the course I felt it my duty to pursue in the water committee, that I should make some remarks upon the amendment proposed by Mr. Earle. Very severe language has been used by . Mr. Earle, and such language, according to his own showing, should scarcely have been adopted. Mr. Earle said, I was perfectly in order. Then, I ask Mr. Earle, and I ask the Council, what right Mr Earle has to object to that which was done perfectly in order ? Is a gentleman to be charged with deceit, who acts in order—to be charged with having done what is discreditable to him, when what he has done is perfebtly in order ? I submit that the two things are not consistent. • Mr. Earle stated that I had a perfectright to do what I did. I maintain I had a perfect right. What were the precise circumstances ? I shall proceed to tell the Council. I submit that the time has arrived when we • ought to know whether the works are capable of suppljing.water ; and I submitted to the coin- . mittoe that, as a committee, it was our duty to know whether the works were supplying the quantity of water which we, were led to expect. This season of the year, when the rainfall is greater than at almost any other season, appeared to me to be the most proper time for ascertaining .the quantity of water which can bo raised: from the district. Now, sir, the immediate question which pressed upon my mind was one of ways and means. If there be a deficiency in our revenue to the extent of £15,000 a year, as it will be found to be, surely it becomes a question for the con sideration of thel committee how that amount can be reduced. If Liverpool proper is being supplied, as I submit it is, with almost exclusively water from the Rivington district, then I say the remaining portion of the water area should also be sup plied for a time from it, to see whether they would receive the same water which is now being sup- plied to the borough. Allow me to tell vou, sir, that the Aigburth district is not supplied by the same water. The Mossley-hill district is not supplied with the same water. The Bootle district is not supplied with the same water. A gentleman who recently went to live at Aigburth, and who frequently complained of the quality of the water while he lived in Liverpool, states that he now finds it unexceptionable, and that he has no complaint to make against it—in fact, that he can see no difference between it and the old red sandstone water. Nor can I understand how it could be otherwise. The Aigburth district is supplied by the reservoir at Ilighpark street, filled by the fountain at the Windsor station, and the station at Water-street, in the Park. Therefore, it is our duty to ascertain if the public of Liverpool be satis fied—as they are stated to be, and, as I admit from their silence; gentlemen have a right to believe them—if they are satisfied with the quality of the water, it is our duty to ascertain whether those who are now supplied at the cost of pumping would also be satisfied with it, and thus allow us to abstain from pumping, and to save £6,000 a-year,• which the pumping costs. This, at least, would diminish the £15,000 which we shall be called upon to pay. It is an important feature of the ease, that while the impure water ,is being supplied to the Liverpool people, and the pure water to the district beyond Livorpool, the deficit will have to be made up exclusively by the ratepayers who have the impare water, and those who are supplied with the pure water are not called upon to contribute one'penny towards the deficit, which will amount to 2 4 in the pound upon every building rateable, within the power of our levying a rate. In addition to that, one halfpenny was added last year by the health committee, and therefore the total de ficit will be 3d in the pound. Now, I ask the Council whether they are prepared to say that that state of things shall continue; and that they will not permit the water committee to alter it, if it be in their power to do so ? Mr. J. Holm° stated, this time two years, when I called your attention to the state of the water, that if we would, allow the works to be in operation six months, and that then, if there appeared no improvement in the quality of the water, he should have his doubts of it. We have now, had it, for two years. Subsequently to that I called the attention of the committee to the necessity of having an increased quantity of water from Rivington, and :the answer was—" allow the reservoirs to be finished." Before I made this motion in the committee, I asked the question " whether the reservoirs were finished ?" and the answer was that the works were completed. Then saw no reason why we should not at once teat the quantity of the supply. I was asked to allow the reservoirs first to be filled. I thought that a very reasonable proposition, and I consented to it. I had no end whatever to answer but •to promote what ought to be the legitimate duty and business of the com mittee ; but no sooner is any thing of the sort mooted than such consternation is excited that every one is puzzled to know whence such alarm comes. It is not, therefore, now, a question about the propriety of the works, or about the quality of the water, but it is a question how you will pay your debts, and whether you will now make the works as efficient in their practical application as they are capable of being made ; and I lig)°, therefore, the Council will not refuse to pass the resolution which is recorded upon the books. I will just toll you how this matter came about. I did move a resolution, which was rejected by an amendment. Immediately the amendment was carried, Mr. Rae rose and left the room. Now, sir, I have yet to learn, that because a gentleman leaves his seat at a committee, that therefore the committee's* business must be brought to 1 doio on THE NORTHERN . TIMES, THURSDAY, JANUARY .13, 1859 that particular question: r - nnderstood that gentleman attentlA-there for the purpose of conducting the business, and ask the question, suppose Mr.. Rae was not there at allovould it not have been competent for me to 'make the motion ? then it would have been carried. When the chairman was about to proceed with the gene ral business of the _committee, I asked him if I was not entitled to put mi original motion, and s I think I am right in saying that the Town Clerk said it was incom petent for me to do so. Mr. Ityley then said he would move an amendment. ; Mr. Stitt seconded the amendment . an& it was not until the amend ment was •withdralin that I moved my amend ment. t submit then, sir, that I was perfectly in orde r in doing . what I did,: and did nothing to call forth the remarks applied to me by Mr. Earle. I would :etpect, from a gentleman of Mr. Earle's education, mid' his gentlemanly feeling, notwithstanding his eccentricities at t"his ‘Council sometimes, that-he is prepared to withdraw these words, 'for certainly; upon his own shoviins, they do not apply tunle. And Ido hope the Council will .. • not resciiid, the: iziotiot Mr. Bennett trusted, before the COuncil went to a vote upon this very, important subject 'of the, amend men t proposed by Mr. Earlq that 'every member' of "the Council would'lbe put in full possession 'of" 'the facts of the subject upon which he was about to vote. 2 The committee had been most 'anxious, for a considerable length 'of time, that their machinery and punipini , engines, several of which were out of re pair, should 'have a. time . of rest, ,given them which the engineer himself desired, and requires that they might be put into fair working order. They, he alluded. to Mr. Jeffery, himself, and other members of the committee wh o tOOkAlaeir views, backedup'hy . the engineer himself, con sidering ,that ,the quality of the Rivington Water could never :be better than it .now was, and in the :opinion they were 'certainly strongly supported by the Rivingion Pikeists themselyes; for "the time had long gene by . fhat they begged of at the hands of this COuncil; to enable theni to prove to the town the splendid quality of the - Riviugton water. The time- had lonc , ;gone by - when the most -strenous adfocate of 'the Raington pike water asked to be granted to give this water a fair trial. The the now have been fill e d f or years ; they had the whole amount from the old district that they had any. 'right to obtain. As reganied quantity, they would never have more ; and as regarded quality, they would never have better. This was just the nick of time for this reasonable metion, which ,they hid on' their books,. to be carried,. and to have the town supplied by the Rivington' water fOr one month. He would confine himself to .the subject of the amendment, and he would draw attention to 'the names of the gentle men whp vo,ted on., this question at the committee. He would read- their names • • The Miyor You have no right to give ,the4fames:of parties.voting at a committee. Mr.- Hodson : These names are in the public papers. What is the use of Mr. "Bouriett going on with this trash. Mr. Bennett. , : It is usual for doctors to talk about stuff, but I call upon Mr. Hodson to retract these re marks. (Laughter.) • Mr. Hodson: I did not allude to the remarks of Mr. Bennett. • Mr. Bennett: Well, if Mr. Hodson did not allude to my remarks, the allusion must have been,to Mr. Earle's. Mr. Earle : Never mind. Mr. Bennett : I suppos e you don't care what he says. Mr. Earle: No, nor you either,,, (Laughter.) Mr. Bennett then wen t o n't ( isay, that the names of the gentlemen were those. 'from whom they had a right to expect support. They were those gentlemen, ;so far as they remained on the com m itt ee , who had originated the scheme. .They were thOs e gentlemen whom the town had a right to expect consistency from, and it was owing to their votes that the motion was not carried tin animously with the exception of thoSe Members who had been newly appointed on the committee. He trusted that at this time of the year, when their rainfall was heaviest, and that as their reservoirs had been fuller than they had been for considerable time, and that their engines require cessation, for repairs, that the Council would allow this resolution to pass the way it was on the books. Mr. Farnworth said, he very rarely rose to address the Council on this subject, but, in consequence .of a remark that had been made by Mr. Bennett, l ie wou ld sa y a f ew words. Mr. Bennett had alluded to the new memberS of the water committee, including, as he supposed, himself ; but he could say that he had not taken, before he came into the Council, any active part either on one side or the other with reference, to the Rivington water. When he was appointed on the committee he found the Riving ton works nearly pompleted—. they were then told that they were fully completed,—and when in that committee , he felt it his duty to act in the same way with the public property as he should do if the property was his own. (Hear, hear.) It had been his desire to see that the water supplied to the public should be as good as it pos sibly could. The Rivington scheme had been completed by 'Act of Parliament. There was a good supply, and the water had been pronounced good. lie stated that— not from his own opinion, for although a practical and experienced man in some things, he could not pronounce an opinion on such a subject; and had, therefore, taken it from the opinion of the most eminent chemical men of the day, who had said the water was pure and whole some. That it was not so bright as the old well-water, ho.would admit ; and, in order that it should be so, he thought it should go through some process of filteration, by which it might be made as bright ; ,and to accomplish that object, the service of Mr. Spencer had been retained, and he had said it could be made as bright as the other. Till that was done, as the committee had resolved,. lie did not see why there should be the slightest complaint.' Mr. Joffery . had stated that he looked upon the subject as a financial matter. If the amendment was adopted it would cause a saving of £6,000 per annum ; but all ho would ask, was this the proper time to bring the pure Riyington water into the town. Mr. Jeffery: The resolution was proposed two months _ Farniiorth: For his part he had no feeling in the matter ; if the Council were of opiniOn that such was the case, then he would bow to that deciiion; but he really -J did think that the subject was one of t o ; muc h impor tance to be dealt with by the committee, and hence, he hoped the Council would decide. Mr. Bennett wished to make one observation in explanation. When he said new members, he alluded to those who were not members of the Council when the scheme was first agitated. Mr. Crellin : It had been said that now was the proper time for the experiment , to be tried, because all the enoines wanted repairing. Mr. Bennett said he had not stated so Mr. Crellin : It had been stated. ,The Green-lane engine was in good order; so was the Water-street, and the one in Windsor ; therefore, the only ones that were out of repair were those in Soho-street, Hotham-street, and Bevington Rush, the wells of which gave very bad water at all times. Therefore, as far as the repairing the engines went, there was not the slightest necessity for the turning of the Rivington water into the town for a month. Mr. Hodson rose to speak— Mr. Parker : You can't reply yet. (Cries of " Yote, vote," in the course of which Mr.. Hodson endeavoured to address the council, but was informed that if he did so, it would be taken as his reply, and that he could not address_the council.) • Mr Stitt stated the reason why he had supported the amendment of Mr. Jeffery's in the committee, and con sidered the severe remarks made by Mr. Earle quite uncalled for, and perfectly out of order. lie said he was in nearly the same position as Mr. Farnworth, as he had not taken any part in the Pike agitation; he found the water there, and the only way that could be done was to make the best of it. They had been told by the com mittee that the water was daily getting better and better,. and more pure ; but, upon inquiry of the Water Engineer; and from his own experience, he had not been able to see that such was the fact. Mr. Ryley said there was. no doubt but that the water was very mach discoloured,. and he had,, in committee, asked the engineer whether he was not of opinion that, in tho course of time, the water would become a better colour, and his answer was simply " No." There was no circumlocution about the answer; so that, let them go about it as they might, they would have it the same. Ile hoped the Council would pass the amend ment, and in doin,„(r so he believed that they would ho .. actin as the best friends of those who were the favourites of the Pike scheme. Mr: Robertson Gladstone hoped that the present state of feeling would not long be continued, for the an g ry feeling that had been evinced was neither creditable to one side or the other. Ho quite agreed with Mr. Jeffery, as to the view he had taken of the question, the same as he had made on a former occasion. But they had been told that Rivington was to yield fifteen or sixteen millions of gallons per, and now they were told that they could only have teWnillion gallons. If they could not supply the necessary quantity from Rivington, why, in the name of common sense, lot them mix it. He did not see, now that they had got the water, and that they must have it, that it was any use their quarrelling amongst themselves. lire oannot improve it by quarrelling here, and why should we do it, while, on the other hand, we have a supply in the immediate neighbourhood, which, mixed with the other water, makes it an article of average qua lity. I shall propose, if it can be done, another amend ment, to this effect—" That the subjoot be referred back to the water committee, for the purpose of limiting the water supply from Rivington to such a period ni may be required fqr ppairiug:, thq pumping inae,*eYy At the red sandstone pumping statiQns." That of course will depend upon the correctness of the statement that the machinery does reciiiire repairing ; if it does not, this motion will fall to the. ground.. (Hear, he r and cries of "It do"- It."‘ At does no. ) Mr. ,C. Turner said Mr. Gladstone's amendment could not be proposed at present. Mr. James Holme If a man has been deceive* it is his honest duty at'once to avow it—(hear, hear) ;---tend I candidly confesi that' I am deceived both as to the cost of these Works and the quality of the water. (Hear,. hear.) But I ask, whether the agitation attempted to be ° is th e 'mot up twain in this town; by Fuming. 'the discoloured water into' it, • proper course ?or this Council to pursue. ,(No, no.) I will willingly vote for the amendment ' that has bebn brought forivard,.but I will likewise take the JibertY, of making one or two remarks. Much has been said as to the necessity of repairing'the pumping engines. Now,. I should like' te Icildw in what position the town would have been 'placed, if it had ' , not been: for the supply from Rivington, and if there is actuallythis necessity to repair the 'engines at this -Moment. Why the town would have been literally without water if this great necessity fur repairing the pumping engines really. exists. But I feeV convinced that it is not the pumping engines, nor pumping. the supply of water that is • the cause of the speeches we have heard, but it is an endea vour to get up an _agitation—(hear, hear)—ta put the , town to an unnecessary -expense in pulling up _the streets and putting down a second line of pipes.- •(llear,' hear.) It is qiiite right' to provide the' water, and at:the proper time I should be willing o.do what is proposed if it is really necessary. But what is the' proper time at which te'do it? " rthink the best time would be about October,. when yon have a chance of the winter rain before, you, , but do not take •up • the streets and engage in this' work. When you.may - have two or : three mouths of dry weather, which N not unlikely in the spring time of • the- year. Theiras:reg . ards this revenue, which is again beihg:made a : bugbear in the • town, what is it ? Take then. dock estate and look at the state of the north. dock.' at ;his 'moment. They are not paying:' the interest expected at the present moment, neither can any large works be - expected to do so at once; and in this respect, we certainly ought to view the subject we are discussing, 'bearing in mind that yen have extended your pipes to all parts of the town. Then, don't raise a bug— bear about revenue, but look at the matter reasonably. It is the same' with this as' with every other great under taking; and, when you have provided a good supply of water for a large town like Liverpool, and when you only . just have done' that, - you have no right to be raising a cry that our revenue is short. (Hear, hear.) I don't agree with what , Mr. Jeffery is constantly• bring ing' before 'us, because the complaints are neither-.well founded nor reasonable. I would say now, •go on for a time, and if you must do something, do.it in October. I wish the experiment was now tried, and ifit • would not be running the risk of not keeping the mains charged, I should be glad to see"the old 'spring water :turned back (applause),' and thiM -we 'should sae whether the' in habitants would be More satisfied with Rivington or the old springs. (Hear, hear) • M. 6.'Turtier : As to a'remark of Mr. Holme's, I may say that the revenue of the dock estate is amply sufficient for all tihrposes. Mt. ilermti I didn't mean that; bat meant to say that any new work eould not be expected to produce im mediately. Mr. T. L. Hodson said, this was the old leaven again, and it was an unfortunate circumstance that, whenever a certain portion of the water committee had the opportu tunity, of making a statement that would come before the public of a nature to prejudice this great work —they would go on, at all hazards, whether the revenue was sinking or not—they would g) on, and try to'disparage it in the opinion of the public. Stich a course was to be deprecated, and those who in dulged in it seemed to be doing all the injury they could to an object which was desirable to attain. Mr. Jeffery denied the accuracy of the statement. Mr. Hodson would like to know, then, in the name of Gracl--" Order.") Mr. Jeffery, from day to day, in that council was doing a systematic injury by prejudicing the question in the .eyes of the public. (Hear, hear, and " order.") ' lie admired Mr. Jcffery's great and powerful talents, and when he used them for the good of his fellowmen, he (Mr. HAson) not only admired but adored him. (Laughter.) But Mr. Jeffery forgot his high position, and seemed to overlook the fact that the people of Liverpool were now receiving from this scheme, benefits incalculable. This was the water question over again, and they had again gone right into the whole subject. (Hear, hear.) He would ask what, supposing they had last year been depending entirely upon ..t the wells, would have become of the people of Liverpool. (Hear, hear.) He asked Mr. Stitt to answer the question, and when that gentleman denounced this water, he would tell them that they had as good water now as. was ev er supplied to a community,—(hear, hear) —and that any man who said the water was unhealthy, did not know what he was talking about, or what he was stating to the public. His friend, Mr. Woodruff, quietly and adriotly communicated with Mr. Jeffery in the committee; but he could hardly think that if Mr. Jeffery had had all the anxiety that he professed for the public good, that he. would have acted as he did in the committee. Mr. Jeffery should see, as a politic man, and the Council as a politic council, that it was highly im portant and necessary to impound in reservoirs supplies of water, to provide against draughts, when those supplies would have to be depended upon. Bat . what cared they the ibaut the reservoirs ? What was it to anti-Pike party whether empty or la 11? They did not i to ' val it one 'straw, irrespective of hot weather, disease, and other circumstances of which they must all have some knowledge. He trusted the Council would bear that in mind, and that they would not be lead to play any schemes or pranks to destroy that grea t sc h eme O r interfere with its efficiency. lie did not think the of Mr. ' Jeffery and M r . B e n nett it all applicable to water .coloured by floods, such as invariably prevailed at •Nns of the year. The engines did not require , anose that were at Green-lane, Water-street. Were in excellent condition ; and, in fact, hints . thrUwn out by Mr. Gladstone were to 1, remlrks certain s upbn, they could supply the water half and half. He had paid attention to this matter for many years, and the Countil had delegated to the committee the task of pro viding the town with a proper scheme for the supply of water, as quickly and cheaply as possible; and those of the committee who• were opposed to the science, and to carrying it out, should leave the committee, and allow others to do the work. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) , The vote was then taken for the amendment, with the following result : For :—Alderman Dover, Parker, J. H. Turner, F. Shand W. Houghton, S Holme ; Messrs. Stitt, Anderson, Crellin, C. Turner. Stoains, J. Holme, D. Rae, T. Ridley, T. Wagstaff, Tobin, Earle, Hutchison, Johnson, Hodson, Clint, Robertson, Farnworth, Anthony, Cropper-25. Against—Alderman W. Bennett, R. C. Gardner, Messrs. Woodruff; S,ieil, Corbally, Barton, Clerk, Ryley, Bowring, W. P. Jeffreys, Rogers, Job, J. R. Jeffery, Picton, Kitchen, Bnkwith,. and Vernon-18. Alderman Parker said, very bad effects would arise from Mr. Jeffery's motion. being carried out; and he was sorry Mr. Gladstone's advice• had not been taken. Mr. Jeffery asked what the Council would instruct the committee to do. Would they declare that they did not desire the whole water district to be supplied uniformly, but that they 'desired the- outer districts should be a favoured few—that those within the boundary should have the inferior water, and should pay up a deficiency of £15,000 a year; and that those. outside should have superior water and. be exonerated from any share in that payment. He moved as an amendment that the followin,g addendum be appended to Mr. Earle's motion. " And that the water committee be instructed to have the reservoirs filled with all practical speed." He wished the üblic to understand that• the works. were estimate to supply a quantity of sixteen millions of gallons. The whole amount now being supplied was ten millions including the red sandstone. The quantity they - were taking from the reservoirs was six millions. Let them draw away the whole of the sixteen willinns, and see where they would be at the end of six'inorkths. Now, that they had got the works delivered over to them,,and he wanted to know , whethe r the y had received what the y co ntracted for ? He did not want t he p ublic to tak e this as his opinion, but as the fact. They had found that th e cost. had been falsified, the qua lit y had been fa lsified he believed they would now find that the quantity also had been falsified. Mr. Ryley seconded the amendment. Mr. Anderson said the question was, -wh e th er it w i fort fair time.t o do fair to test t he q uali ty of the Rivin gton. water after the ve ry heavy fall of rain. He did not think better if, after a time a ert delay it they IT% and quiteh e ag t r h e o e d u g w h i t th th m e r y had . Ryisey that found the water still discolourised, • they should adopt every to said,d e o e l o v u e r r i y s e rso . n in the Park had been deprived of water, and there Was, therefore, no reason w hy the Corporation should not_ be called upon to supply them. Ile had been accused of using harsh language. He had been a little sharp perhaps, but he had only en deavoured to describe a liberal in its true colours. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) H e as k e d w h e th er t h e water com mittee had any power to direct what quantity of rain should fall from the Heavens ? It was that which filled the reservoirs. (Laughter.) Mr. AidertnAn S. Holme said Mr. Jeffery had alluded three times oral - they' Derby, to Aigburth particularly. Now he s - b-akia- to - illoirb416 :11 of. the inhabitants of Aisburth, .Bootle, West Dbr, 4'. iii :041. n - on with the i ± nholitints of 'that i when and other places, had their ivater taken away- incZ pumpiug to give a suppl yto the' :they had every right, to demand--, ithe Corporati on should give them a supplyin eo the inhabitants of Liverpool._ (Hear, Near.) late in the day to make a . sort of division betwe,_ outskirts and the town. Were they not all one connau- , pity 3. (Hear, hear.) If he ,resided in Aigburth, had he not, or had he not had, w or k s and' property in Liverpool 1.: The same kind of argument had been urgel with referenee.to the gas question, but .he thought it was quite too lute iii the day. Now they were told that the engines were , at present in a' dilapidated condition. 'Ones of.no, Had it not been said that. the engines- tants of Liverpool, mand—that (Ike 'non with too It were ont - of repair? Mr. Hodson : Slightly Crellin : 'Two engines only. , Mr. liolme asked., .what would have been, the condition of the inhabitiuits of Liverpool if they had' li a d no Rivingtou ? Would the , gentlemen, who were trying to cast odium upon it, be contented to abandon it altogether —.to . let it remain, as , it w4as•---to cut off - the 'supplies entirely, and . bring the inh a bi tants of • Liverpool ; ; until . the. reservoirs were choke full, back to the old supply from the wells ? Would any. gentleman . stint up• there, and take the . responsibility upon himself of bringing the inhabitants of Liverpool back to the supply of four or five million .gallons - from the- . wells ? The water, punnittee had been surrounded by difficulties.. IL did not hesitate to make the confession a s , we ll as hi s brother, that the quantity of water .. which ~they were. receiving from .Rivington had not :been so great as 'they were led to expect. (Hear, hear.) As to the cost of the out districts, it was e v id en t that in some places, until a' sufficient number of houses had . been. built there, there must. be , some deficiency which would be made up in anothe r period., • 'They had bad time wasted not by hours, but almost by ,weeks, upon that question. (Hear, hear.). The time would come when they would have to seek for supplies some where else, in addition to all they had' got ; and he trusted that all little biekerings would be kpii , en up, and that the members of the water committee, .8s men of business, would put their shoulders to the wheel, for the purpose of obtaining a sufficient supply of water ' and not in order to gratify any feelings; of personal rivalry, put the town of Liverpool up - on short allowance. (Hear.) • Mr. Bennett . found. fault .Aith 'the difference of the water supplied at some places, and expressed a hope that the amendment would pass with the addendum rnxvel by Mr. Jeffery.. Mr. Earle said it was an unmeaning addendum, and therefore he could not subinit.to it. Mr. Woodruff said they had had. an,extraordinary, tramthat day. Two:gentlemen of the priginal water. comtnitee; of the original sclieme, had been on their with a confession. If this confession had come yeara ago, it would have saved, a great deal. The opponents of the Rivington scheme, two or three years ago; made several statements, and every prediCtion that they had made had been more. than fulfilled; - and, that day they had and the promo' two members of the o. that had ever Wen advan'Sed.,by the opponents on that question. If the original party would ' admit that they were mistaken on the question, they were willing to make the best of the water, and it-. should be given , to , all parties alike—not that the well should be stopped at one part and not at the other. He trusted that the addendum would be carried.L There was nothing unreasonable in it., Mr. erellin thought h Might perhaps explain to Mr. Bennett, although he k lew he did not require..., the explanation (hear, hear), that the inhabitants of Bootle were supplied from the Bootle springs, in consequence of no pipes from the Kensington reservoir going to Bootle, and it was done for the sake of economy. As far as the supply to Mosley-hill was concerned, Mr. Beim t knew poiteeay well that the water fro:n thO Kensington reservoir was not suffi c i en t to supply o the upper houses at Mosley-hill, and, therefore, the engineer, was obliged to pump up, by the engine, sundry days in • the week, enough to supply the upper houses,' On every o th er occas i on the place was supplied with the same water as that received in Liverpool. He was astonished that Mr. Bennett shOuld manceuvre liis letiCS so. M. Tobin thought the umendment was expressing a doubt that ald not carry out what it wai their bounden duty to do, Mr. Hodson agreed with Mr. Tobin . Mr. Gladstone - said he would state to the water com mittee that it did appear to him unfortunate that all persons deriving a supply of water from the• corporation of Liverpool had not received precisely the same quality of water. It appeared to him desirable that the water engineer, as far as practical, should submit to the com mittee the different proportions which• he proposed to give. This was a question which seemed to him worthy the consideration of the committee. Mr. Hodson assured Mr. Gladstone that. the anxiety of the committee was to make the water equal to all, but in consequence of the engineering difficulties which they had not been able to surmount, there were portions of the town. supplied with larger portions of the well than Itivagton water. He would assure the Council that the committee would take the matter into consideration, and endeavour to make the water equal teen. .114. Jeffery made a cer tain mistake by saying that they were only getting serea million gallons per day from Rsvington, whereas they got forty-three million gallons last week, which was some- If it was the thing snore than seven millions per d . a, desire of the Council to put the town ;upon the inter mittent supply, .the committee would do so, .but the committeee would not take the risk, in case of fires, with. the mains empty. They had from forty-two million to forty-three million gallons of well-water per week. In consequence of the bad and injurious quality of the water pumped at Water-street, it was deemed advisable to stop the pumping of it. The anxiety of the committee was to do the best for the community at large; and he was sure Mr. Jeffery might, in his generosity, belide that. they were quite as anxious for the public weal as he was. The amendment was then put, when there appeared For—Aldermen : Chilton, Parker, G ar d ner. Council lors—Stitt, Woodruff, Sheil,.Shisnmin,.Corbally, Barton, Clerk, Ryley, Jeffreys, Ridley, Rogers, Gladioli( Jeffery, PicOn, Kitchen., Against—The Al ityos Shand, Houghton, . Holm( Crellin, Turner, Steains, Holme, Rae-, Shand, Tobin, Earle, Hodson, Clint, Robertson, FarnwOith, Anthony BeCkwiih, 1-1)ov Alden . Connrill The ameadment was declar e d , lost. BATHS COMMITTEE The proceedings of this committ and confirmed. PLZBLIC OFFICES. , Turner, Nuderson. were then read The proceedings of the special committee for the remo val of the public offices from the Town Hall were read; as was also a report from the Town Clerk on the subject, which approved of the remlval on account of insufficient accommodation in the Town Hall for the ',witless of the town. - - - __ ...... Mr. Charles Turner said the council would have learned ee t t he in c a o l n l e c iol l:ea h r ; from the proceedings that the committee were unable to a.. Tee on all the matters br9ught . before . them; bear ings, , they ald had d ey e subject the di h se a ured com thought unanimously, every tuer.nh3r wai Convince d* that concentrutton was desirable to enable the Town Clerk to prosecute the business of the Corineit, and without which it was. very - difficult forhim to discharge his duties; but, as to the locality.uponwhich the cou centration_was to take place i , was, a nutter upon which the opinions of the committee were very much divided. They had heard from, the report of the Town Clerk, that the treasurers andsurveyors,and the leasin g and eon veyancingdep?.rtmelits,.must necessarily be close twpott. - -•-• and also in imandiate contiguity to the Town Clerk's office, as there was a constant C ommanication between assistance them. On the other hand,.-mant/ members of thecom mittee felt strongly that it was esirabl e th at th e T own frequently tl y whichs office should be near the mayor., th e .m e lyor desired. the advice and. of the. Town thought_ could - - many members of the committee not be efficiently and• in deputed to bd if c of the orporation. the whole o f the officeswere concentrated' in Dale street ; if the Town Clerk were to be taken there; if the Mayor himself were to have apartments in Dale street, it was the opinion of many of the, members of the committee that the Town Hall would then be a very useless building , as, in point of f ac t; it mus t th en b e co m e. Although the Town Hall was not a place in which the Mayor resided, it was hi s official residence, and in 1 wlnc. the mayors of Liverpoot not only conducted. their publio business, but received, those strangers who might visit Liverpool, and certainly it 'was almost the fittest place, not only in Liverpool, but in England for such a purpose—and he doubted very match whether the council of the town of Liverpool would sanction the removal of the Mayor from the . Tows hall. He thought the, council would feel great hesitation in doing so, and it might be very much against the. feelings of that Council, and against the inhabitaAts of Liverpool generally. But admitting the neccity of concentration, many members of the committee had turned their attention to 3 plot of land on the other side of the street, a great part of which desirable, and. wou to l hm d em m eito a te k st e eoas 2 f , to the Corporation, and about 300 yards at the c orner wyaaristliine apropertyall, ly Upon nf this s c 2 C , aoroppogry4aav the committee e yar yards belonged of Rumford-streot, not the property of the . Corporation, rds, Mr, ;:stovliuttle to make an 44 but might become so if "kthei