Northern Times. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-07-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS. -MONDAY, The question of - Volunteer Rifle Corps was introduced, and some conversation took place on points connected with the drill and construction of the corps. '''' • . _ The Earl of Ripon entered into some explanations on the subject ; which was discussed by the Marquis of Clanri ,carde, the Earl of Malmesbury, and other peers. Lord Brougham presented a petition on the subject of Coolie emigration to the British West India Colonies. He took the opportunity of entering into an explanation or the operation of local acts and practices, which had :been pro secuted until they amounted' ''o• something very like the removal of the native trade. The Dake of Newcastle made some remarks on the same subject, which dropped, after a few words from the Earl o The Earl of Cork asked if it was the ration of th - Government to introduce any bill for the bett ment of Endowed Schools in Ireland ? )bsdrvations from Lord Brougham, Ea Granville said it was th )n of Governtnent to brin forward, do preset led, at a quarter past eia A lengtl bill on the It onsideratior Sir J. Graham mow HOUSE OF COMMONS-MONDAY cession took place, relative to a private graph, N The motion was the Lords' amendments a that the bill should be deferred for a fortnight. It involved a guarantee of 41 per cent. on the capital expended for 50 years, and this was a form of gua rantee which the House had hitherto passed without sufficient investigation into them. It, was contended that the money was spent on the faith of the guarant that the guarantee was granted by the government of the country, and that the 'undertaking was -entered into at a time when t highest importance, during the Indian mutin Mr. Gladstone was quite willing that time should be given for inquiry ; he did not, see, by the arrangement, how government could be upset. Mr. Disraeli said that the government had exhausted 'gene° was of th every resean. ^.h, as to the mode of obtaining the required object, without the interference of 'a public company was quitelin?, to consent that inquiry should be entered en by the Chancellor of the Exche- into, upon the view ta' Mr. Bouverie said that it was now too late to hesitate however bad the bargain might have b6en. The government had mada the contract, the House had passed a bill, the company had gone on expending money, and if it had not been for a mere technicality, the question could not again have come before the House: Mr. Wilson condemned the statement of Mr. Disraeli that the late government exhausted every means before entering into the contract The adjournment of the consideration of the Lords' amendment was"then put, and rejected by 179 to 130 The amendment was then agreed to. In answer to Mr. Baines, • - Sir G. C. Lewis said - the right of printing the scriptures and the prayer book was granted by the royal prerogative. - The subject.was under consideration,, but he observed that no•competition Tas likely to increase the accuracy or the .cheapness. .The present circulation of the bible and prayer `book had reichel their utary3t pint. a In answer to Sir Staff ird Northcote Mr: Lacy said that the late Government had made appli cation to that of France to induce them to withdraw the monopoly which they had granted to " the Submarine Tele graph Conipay. 'Ellis the French refused to . do. The present Government then decided on refusing permission to the Com?any to lay its wires close to the shore. Against this the CompanY pleaded its charter made, which claimed the right of doing so until the expiration of the charter in 1862. The opinion of the law officers of the Crown was taken, and, in consequence, the protestation had been removed, b it the Company was, at the same time, informed that the Government held strong views against the mono poly, and at the expiration of their charter, measures would be taken to protect the public interest. Mr. Batter aikei the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it was the antention of her Majesty's government to intro duce any measure, this session, by which the mode of assessment of the Income-tax by local unpaid commissioners will be altered ; and, if so, in what manner it will be pro- posed to make such collections and assessments ? The'CrtucAllr of the Exchequer replied in the negative. Mr. Disraeli inquired whether the' Government had received `'any further information . on the. subject - of the armistice, atrl if they could state whether the armistide was a mere military invention, or whether it involved any prospect of negociations for peace. • - Lord John . Russell said that nothing Ippeared. in the face of the armistice to induce the belief that it .applied merely to military purposes. The armistice was however 'for five weeks, and he trusted that during that interval the belligerent Powers would be ready to propose terms by which :hostilities could be put an .end to. He however repeated that there was nothing on the face of the armistice' further than a mere suspension of hostilities. - In answer to a further question from Mr. Disraeli, Lord John Russell replied, that no further information had been received, beyond a telegram from our Commissioner at Paris. The report of the Committee of Supply. was brought up and agreed to. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Sir J. Pakington demanded further explanation of the announcement made by the government, of their intention to extend the bounty offered to seamen in joining the fleet, :to seamen who had already joined, in no other instance had bounties been made retrospective, and the precedent would act as a serious check upon future bounties, and would be very costly in the present instance. Lord C. pa g et 'hoped, that the dismsion of the subject would be postponed till the vote for the extension of the bounty was brought forward. In reply to a question from Colonel Dickson, General Peel Stated, that the entire military force in the country on the Ist June, was 109,600 men, including the embodied militia, but not the marines ashore, pensioners, and constabulary. Mr. W. Williams made some strictures against the practice of fl )g.ging in the navy, on sentence of a single man. If done at all, it should he by sentence of court-martial. Sir C. Napier defended the system of bounty, which ought to be of sufficient amount, to indnce able men to enter the service With regard to flogging in the navy, he did not believe that it could be done away with, but it should be inflicted by court-martial, and not at the arbitrary will of the captain. After some remarks from Mr. Lindsay, the House went into Committee of Supply on the Navy Estimates. The remainder of the evening was occupied by the con sideration of the Estimates. The other orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House t.ajourned at 1.35, BOARD OF TRADE, WHITEHALL, JULY B.—The Right Hon. the Lords of the Committee of Privy Council for Trade . and Plantations have received, through the Secretary of State for Foreign Affiirs, a copy of a despatch from her Majesty's Charge d'Affairs, in New Granada, enclosing copy of a decree of the government of that Republic, authorising the executive plwers to enter into contract for the construc tion of an inter-oceanic Canal across the Isthmus of Palipmvi Gazette. TOWN COUNCIL. An adjourned meeting of the Town Council was held, at eleven o'clock, yesterday , his Worship, the Mayor, Wm. Preston, Esq., Presid e A• , ST. GEORGE S HALL COMMITTEE. The proceedings of this committee did not contain any thing of importance. Mr. Earle moved their confirmatiori, which was agreed to. MR. JOHN' STEWART'S EXPLANATION Mr. John Stewart rose, at this stage of the proceedings, and said : Mr. Mayer, you allow me to interrupt the proceedings upon a matter personal to 'myself. (Hear, hear.) I hope I shall not trespass many minutes upon your time, but I cannot allow certain observations which were made in my absence to pass without taking some notice of them. (Hear, hear.) I think it due not only to myself, but to the public, that I should do so. (Hear, hear.) I shall say very little , upon the first portion of the remarks -to which I refer, and which amount to a charge of want of eour- tesy, or upercilious conduct, upon my part, as chair man. of the finance committee, to a deputation which attended that committee upon Friday week. I shall con tent ,myself, so far as that subject is concerned, 'with' saying that, if there was anything of discourtesy or incivility, or anything like a supercilious bearing on my part, I can only say, most sincerely, that I was unconscious of it, and did not intend' anything of the sort. (Cries of hear, hear.) Fortunately for me there was a large committee present — think very nearly a full attendance---,and it necessarily follows, and I am very glad indeed to know it, that there atlernen there, I hope, as competent as, those who _arged me with supercilious conduct to form a judg ment as to my bearing, and I cm only say that I have not heard one word of condemnation either at that time or since, (Hear, hear.) For myself, I again repeat, that if I was were get have chE guilty of anythinF„ , of the sort it was quite unintentionable upon my part. (Hear, hear.). ,It is painful to have to allude to' this, but, , even if it were true, was there any occasion that the public papers should - allude to my late father, who has been in his grave 19 years ? Was it right, after he had. lived in Liverpool nearly s►xty years, and was buried in 1842, to up his ashes and cast them in my teeth I shall now pass on to the observations which were made by Mr. Jeffery, about the position in which I stand as arbitrator for the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, with re and to the taking of some land upon the north side of Wallasey Pool. lam tor. I .am not their paid advocate. Neither 3oard, nor the Corporation, nor any individuals the lie can ni - • - me their advocate, and no payment of - money which they could offer me could induce me t any man's property except at .a full and a fair \ I-fear, hear.) It is Painful to. have , to refer to"niatters which are purely persOnal to myself, but if the h.ooks of the corpo ration are searched; you . will find that when I was a young man, pursuing my profession, when theemolu ments .of it were important to 'me, pursuing a success ful husiness —aye, years befoie l'had any connection with the Foster family, which has been alluded , to, for that connection • began in 1824, when I ,had been nine and a-half years in business on my own account, and was doing a large and successful business long previous to that connection,—you' will find that the corporation books record a iesolutiOn that Mr. John Stewart, then a Man, be - appointed arbitrator to'act for the corporation in every case, which came under their cognis ance and which they. had to deal . with. At that ittme a most active and useful member, Mr. Jonathan Hollinshea.d, whotn Mr. Ehrle - and' some of the older members 'will very Youn robably recollect, was chairman of the improvement immittee. Years rolled- . on, and although I was ipposed to be identified with the party which had opposed the municipal reform tY a corresponding resolution after a lapse . , of "somethine c' . twenty odd years. From about the year 1829 orlB2l, something like forty years after the first resolution of which I spoke, I 'acted for the corporation of Liverpool, and I can appeal to the records of that corporation, to show whether, in the majority of cases, the individual whose interests were affected were not contented to leave the settlement of the questions in my hands. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the dock . board, my engagement wi h that board began, think, somewhat dallier even than with the corporation, and I - have continued to act for tinm, and I believe it is admitted by every one that in carrying out one of the lar g est purchases of late years, some seven or eight years ago,i mean the Wapping extension, wherein I acted. throughout with the most implicit confidence of all the doCk committee, *here the dealings were with persons of all ranks in life, small owners andlarge owners, public bodies, companies, and private individuals, at least 80 per. cent of the whole of those. enormous' purchases were made with parties not appointing any person at all, but leaving themselves entirely . in my hands. Certainly, all the great purchases, all the large amounts, were entirely and exclussvely left to myself. (Hear, hear.) Well, now, with regard to the immediate subject, I do not know whether , it is meant to impute mercenary motives to me in taking the appointment of arbitrator under - the dock board. If that be so, I can only ''answer it by saying., that I have relinquished one Of the . best professional businesses out of London. I hale relin quished it, and suffered it to go away to comparatively pothing, to next to nothing, by reason of the corporation calling upon me for my services, which have been 'accorded gratuituously to them for a series of years. (Hear, hear.) During the year 1855, I would ask the town-clerk, whether, through the greater part of diet year, I was not most actively and busily engaged, entirely for the corporation. Daring the year 1856, when the question of the great town dues was under discussion, and the honour . and integrity of this corporation were assailed by an opponent, as to our dealings between the docks and the corporation, who was there to defend !our deal ings—who was there to give a history of the whole traninctionS--Whe was there to vindicate the honour Of the corporation but myself? :(11eir hear.) During'lBss -add 1856, the whole of my time, or at least a very great portion of it, was devoted gratuitously to the serving of this corpora tion.: - Now, sir, I come to speak of the effect which it has been said my acting as arbitrator for the dock board in re ference to the land -of Messrs. Pollard and others, will have upon the corporatiOn estate. .Hitherto I have the proudsatisfaction of saying 'that the council, up to 'a, year or two ago, was but too hagy to refer the question between the dock, board and the corporation entirely to myself in many eases—in most cases indeed In the present instance the dock board, for - whona. I have acted so long, have got an act of parliament to enable them to ninke a quay and a public street upon the north side of :Wallasey Pool, to obviate the difficulties which every gentleman who was On the Birkenhead' committee knows did exist, and which 'we in. vain endeavoured to get over. We never could get the pool deepened on ,the north side, and the quay walls, which are very expensive, put in. The dock board undertake to complete the quays, they under take to make a dock quay on the north side of, the pool, they undertake to make a street twenty-five yards wide; to pave and sewer it, and to give the use and enjoyment of it - to the owners of the land 'abutting upon it on the landward side. And, althoiigli it would, not become me to enter into details of the reference, I thi gentlemen will hear, with as much' astonishment as I did, that 'the several landowners claim from the dock board upwards of £900,000 for that purpose, the dock board building the wall. In the particalar case which was the first subject of reference, the claim was upwards of £200,000. Is the prosperity of Liverpool,—is the good of the town to be promoted by the commercial comrnumity submitting with out a struggle to pay what they conceive, rightly or wrongly, to be an exorbitant sum. Mr. Jeffery talks of being a paid advocate. lam not a paid advocate. (Hear; hear.) Every One conversant with the dock affairs, and everyone conversant with the taking of land by public companics under,com pulsory powers, knows that that which you want is protec tion against exaction 'on the part of owners, not against any attempt upon the part of any public body, corporation, or otherwise, to take anybody's land without paying the full and true value for it. (Hear, hear.) I should be ashamed of 'myself if I were to attempt to aid such a thing. But lam not a paid advocate: The arbitra tion takes place under a public act of parliament, and that act of Parliament prescribes the mode "of dealing with it. There was not necessarily any difference of opinion between any co-arbitrator and myself, because an umpire had been called in, but the act of parliament says, before you stir a step you must appoint the umpire. The act calls upon the arbitrators to make a solemn declaration before a magistrate, that they will honestly and faithfully discharge the trust reposed in, them; and the advocacy is confided to . two barristers on the part of the dock-board, and three bar risters on the part of the claimants. I had the unpleasant duty of listening for some days to the roundabout - way in which we are to arrive at the value of the land, according to toe lawyers, which involves something like 1,100 or 1,200 folios of evidence. With regard to the corporation, it is perfectly true that the corporation own certain land on the north side of the pool, and the portion of land belonging to.' the corporation is included in the compulsory powers. The portion thus included is about six. and a-half acres. Now, analogy may be taken to some extent, as Mr. Jeffery puts it, but every case must stand upon its own merits. What is the fact with regard to the corporation ? A considerable portion of their land was leased in 1834. In N4vember, 1834, it was' that the corporation granted tht,:t lease, for a considerable portion of this land—for how .on ? For 99 years, 7 4 of which will be unexpired in November.next. The whole interest of the corporatio4 in that portion of the land is £IOQ a leo, tl4O THE! NORTHERN Timrs, TUESDAY, JULY 12 1859 ' ' ' • re3ervedg:rant.. - Bow are the corporation effected ? They stand as free, notwithstanding this reference, to deal with the tind in any way as they were. They are open to treat for itby private contract, :,which I think would be a very sensible-mode of regociation ; but, failing-that, the dock board have no power whatever of choosing the tribunal. The choice of a. tribunal is exclusively in the hands.of the corporation ;. the sellers of land may make the election, Whether they will submit to be assessed by ajury,.er 'whether they will leaVe it to the arbitration prescribedby the general 'act. It is perfectly emnpetent for the corporation, if they do - not like the p r es entarbitrators to appoint any ether arbitrators, or to go to a lury , if they please. 'But what am I charged with ?. Why, sir, I do not know whether the town-clerk has got it, but I asked him to look for it. There was a written .offer from the dock - board, some time ago, after they had,got the bill, but before they went to any .arbitrator at all, to say that,.although I was. the chairman of the corporation finance committee, they would be per fectly willing to pay any price. I put upon the land. The chairman of the duck board, the solicitor, aud, for aught I m know,,some other embers waited upon the finance com mittee with this offer, and who objected to accept it ? I did. (Hear, hear.) I edid. I Would not act in. such a capacity at present, as I Under Stood that very extraordinary claims were to be made, and inasmuch as the questhm was open'. to difference of Opiriion, and very fairly so, even T 11.1rinrf alto fn or strong reasons that he was induced. -to---make the remarks which fell from him on \ Pednesday last. He was told that he should have given I‘l, r. Ste Wart notice of his intention of bringing this matter f 4 irward. But intimation w as required only where time was) required for reference 'to books and documents. Mr. Stewart ; had all the information necessary in his person ; and if he I lad been present, would have been able to answer him without any previous intima tion. The absence of a gentle Men s hould not deter hi:n, or any other member of the corporation, froM calling„attention to that in which the council was in ';erested, and by which its interests were prejudiced, and in , which delay might be injurious. He asked, did not Mr. Sten 'art obtai 'information, by virtue of his office as chairman of th e finance committee, of which no other member was in possesSio n, with reference to the valhe of l end belonging to the corporati, M,whether the Mersey dock board had an y interest, prospec lively or immediately in Vie value Of land belonging to that corporation on the other side of the river? Was it probable or possible that the question would tome b efore arbitrators 'Who might be sitting in judgment to ass oss the value of the land ? It was. He took it that these v rere questions he was justified in answering in the way he bad done. Was Mr. Stewart sitting as one of the arbitr ators s nominally so called, but practically an advocate of the Mersey Dock Board? He subinitted, with all due deference and respect to Mr. Stewart, that he was. Was it his (Mr. StewareS) duty to get the property so submitted to arbitration One or between the most honest men, •1 would not undertaKe settle the price to be paid to the corporation; because I would wait and see what was the general value obtained' for land in the neighbourhood ; and the corporation should be dealt with accordingly. I therefore refused to accept theoffer, the other sitting as sellers were represented by an. arbitrator; and endeavouring to get the highest poSsiblo price, and the buyers at the losvest possible price. He submitted that i snch a position as that n which Mr. Stewart was placed in, was adverse to the interests of the corporation. He said, in conclusion, that he had no intention whatever of referring to Mr. Stewart personally ; for he 'believed there was no , gentleman in . the council who commanded more respect from the memlwrs individually and colleeliVely than did Mr. Stewart. (Hear, hear.) He would say,"further, that if he had a question of property to be referred for valuation or arbitration to one individual, he would refer it to Mr. Stewart before any other gentleman in the town. He would then feel his responsbility and deal equitably in the matter ] havitig-the interest of both sides in his hands. Mr. Stewart, he believed, had more extensive knowledge, and his judgment was more sound, than almost any- other gentleman that he knew of in the town. But in this case equity would hive to be thrown aside for the piiipose of - advocating the side for which he was retained. Whether Mr. Stewart was on the side of the buyer or the seller, he held that he should not occupy, while expressing my pleasUre at the confidence which had been . shown in me.,..Probablfsome members of the finance committee may recollect the circumstances, at all events the letter is h6re. The. whole question between the corporation and the dock board is as yet free6f arbitiatibn. The council ;can deal with' it in any way they please, ; I have dealt lietweenindividuals, and it is.the first time in my life, after more than forty-four years experience in business, that I ever before heard anything like the insinua,* ion, which, although probably conveyed in pretty courteous terms, yet does .mean .that I, .for the purpose of being the paid advocate of the dock board, would sink or sacrifice the corporation interests. If I did so, I.should,. of course, be unworthy to fill the chair of the finance committee. I never sought for that position, and, While I have received every courtesy from the committee, I must say, that I cannot quite understand, when I am devoting , the 'best energies I have to the services of the council an the public, I should he made the subject. of insinuations such as those to which I. refer. (Um, hear.) I think that it is rather a hard measure to be taunted in this - sort•of way, and tp.have matters. brought forward as charges against me. (Rear, hear.) I think,• if the thing had been understood, -• • • it would not have been done,; and the corporation I am . . quite sure, will not be at all prejudwpd by any act - which I have done. (Hear, hear.) They;; an go .to .a Tory a-position that was adverse to the interests of tne corpora tion. Mr. Jeffery Wa3 proceeding to enter into some e?cplanation, but the Mayor interposed, as he considered enough had been said In ?ly to a question from. Mr. Jeffery, Mr. Stewart _aid that he had never given his opinion either to. the umpire, arbitrator, or any mortal being, with reference to this matter. .MNRKETS' COMMITTEE. Tt ' 1 The proceedings of the markets' committee were read, corn. prising :—Report of the treasurer on the acee,.._ John' s Market. Recommendation to appoint Mr. I. Hutchin son as in_ speotor of all the markets, at a salary of £250 per annum. Recommendation to appoint Mr. James Stone house manager of St. John's e -and all the other markets in the centre of the town, at A. s salary .of £2.20 per annum. Recommendation to appoint a Managers of. St, James', and all other markets in the.southern division of the town, at a -. salary of £ 2 salary of L12:5 per annum..' Recommendation to appoint a manager of markets in the northern Of the town, at 'per the annum:salary of R: l 6 o o o m p m e r e n a d n a n i i i i o m n ,etalci. each. t . two a persons be appointed as collectors of St. John's, and the central markets, 15 at Mr. Johnson; in moving the adoption of the report of the treasurer on the accounts of St. John's Market, said the proceedings of the markets' committee were very long ; and in proceeding to move their adoption, he would remark; first, that the treasurer had submitted an account of all the defalcations that he had been able to discover, the average amount of which was £3,197 Is. 51. These defalcations had been going on from 1848, about the second quarter from the appointment of Mr. Bally as auditor.• - The treasurer had also g one through the books of Mr. Hutchinson,. of the south market, and . also through the books of Mr. St _ _sees sii a virl , ' were found -to hi creditable to them.: . Mr. Isaac Hutchinson as inspector of the markets. . ,Mr. Jeffery, asked if the chairman of the markets' com mittee was about to take up the several recommendations seriatim. He did not think that he was right in bringiug „ in his repoit under six heads. • Mr. • Stitt said he could not see how such defalcations could hasie taken place without collusion on the part of the other officers. From the report it appeared that, instead of the parties mentioned being simply, requested to send in their resignation, they should have been peremptorily dis missed from their places.. He could not see on what ground. they deserved such consideration. Mr. Jeffery said he thought' the report justified the conduct of some members who found themselves in the minority on a former occasion. On that occasion those who were in the minority thought that the markets' committee should be re-constituted, and he thought, at the present time, that was the opinion of many gentlemen then in the majority. He believed those who voted with him would have found themselves . in the majority, instead of being in the minority, and.. every gentleman in the council would vote as he pleased, and according to his own conviction of what was right. - Mr. Turner : That is a serious charge. The Mayor : Mr. Jeff. ry, Mr. Jeffery, you are too warm. Mr. Jeffery : I think, Mr. Mayor, you are somewhat too quick upon me, I had not finished my sentence. The Mayor : I am not, sir. Mr. Jeffery Said; he took it to be correct that they had Mrs Jeffery went on to say that some members of the sent in a claim for £50,000, subject to a ljudication ; not council allowed their feelings of sympathy to control their sihertherit - sheuld be 'inCreaSed, but whether it should be votes, instead of following the dictates of their duty. • diminished. The corporation, among ether parties, were That he took to beperfectly parli mer . had it from the lips of - c a 'tam% He interested in land on. the' Margin of the Birkenhead-pool, . . several gentlemen who were • found in the majority on that occasion. He hoped but they were not the first •to 'have °their claim, that, after the long report which had been read settled by. arbitration. The arbitration lied commenced . as .to the value of the land. • required at the e , would longer allow feeling: their , gentlemen no their or sympathies to supersede their duty, as public man, but that Birkenhead.docks. .lits.did not understand Mr. Stewart to' their . duty should stand paramount to .every other considera deny that he was selected as arbitrator for. them.. He used . the word advocate becauee. he understood the, constitution tion. He concluded by hoping the -committee would be . of this - arbitration was not in accordance with reconstructed:, arbitraticiu,: generally, in matterp of a similar kind.. Hodgson thought the markets committee were Ile was told that, before the two arbitrators proceeded to to blame in the whole matter. It was a very their business, they were called upon to appoint a gentle - re markable • fact that, according to Mr. Tweedie, man who would act as umpire. That was the universal alterations had been going on from year to year. practice pursued- by parties, to whom questions 'in; dispute It was perfectly clear,- under these circumstances, were -referred ; and Wives usual that two out of threeshould the committee was to blame. There was not a shopkeeper decide the question at issue. But he understood that that was in Liverpool that would allow such defalcations to go on not the casein the present instance. He was told that when the without discovery. Why blame this man or that man after statements o f both sides were heard, each party being re- he had ran away ? and not till he had ran away had it been presented by council, the gentlemen on the right hand and discovered that he was deficient one 'shilling. Men Came to on the' left ceased to be arbitrators. He asked what the council who were 'members of the markets committee, position did these two gentlemen hold, if - the 'third and spoke of their great prudence, and all that; and yet were allowed to withdraw, and he gav e his sole deci- these very men ne v e r knew that this man had robbed them Sion, - and th a t so l e . d ec i s i on to be - final. He knew of thousands of poun ds. The y never knew that the books no other te rm t o a pply to these gentlemen on the right were kept in such an order that, a common potato shop and 'on th e . l e ft b u t a d vo cate s ,—the sine being the would have been ashamed of them. He would -ask how teller and the other the buyer. 'lf these gentlemen received many .have of the markets committee had examine d the remuneration ,f or th e i r se r vices rendered, which they were books from week to week, to see if they were corrector entitled to, then they were paid advocates. • If -the two otherwise ? He was sure not one of them, or they would ceased to be arbitrators they became advocates. He did have seen that all was not right. . ant say this offensively ; for one moment..; He had not the Mr. Johnson said : Mr. Hodson had alluded to the slightest desire to give Mr. Stewart the least possible offence neglect of the markets' committee, in not looking at the But the gentleman who occupied the chair of the finance hooks regularly. He would ask the town-clerk whether - Committee , a gentleman who was their municipal. premier, they had not recorded resolutions on their books from time their firstlord of the treasury, their chancellor of exchequer, to tithe, calling on the auditor to know whether he had a the leader - of theeouncil, should be exalted high above all; perfect check on the accounts ; and his unvariable report suspicion, and it was because Ile,' Mr. Jeffery, was sensible' , was that he had f. mud the books all correct. Tie would ask of the buzzing that there was oet of doors, and the'rumours any other committee if they had their books laid ' before that this matter had given rise to : it was, because he, as a them aria examined weekly ? . • . ~ . member of the committee, was jealous that a gentleman Mr. Hodson : Yes. occ apying his (Mr.. Stewart's) hi g h p os iti on in the coun- - Mr. Johnson : I would say ne,,not the fall books, but cif, should be' above suspicion, that he brought the question abstracts. forward, he believed it to be their. duties, as members of the The resolution was then confirmed. council, to take care that that office was not perm i tte d to h ave Mr. Johnson then proceeded to move the next recoils -its dignity or its honours fritted away by private gossip or by mendation. • public , statement. Therefore he felt it inenmbent.upon him, if ~ Me. Gladstone said, before going further with the there wasanygeound forsischastatement,tobring th e question he would like that the town-clerk should read a resolution before the council fearlessly, in order that the chairman of which had been . passed, condemning the appointment of a the committee might put himself right, and say if be . (Mr. superintendent, k a Stewart) had had got into the p os iti on i na d ver t en tly, for he The Town-clerk then read from the minute-bofo which would not charge him w ith putting hi mse lf i n t o a f a l se solution, bearing date February 2nd, the e e ff i ect ck_ to the position designedly. • .He b e lie ve d Mr, Stewart was in a was that so much of the resolution_ as b r e d r e e r f re erred back f a l s e position, but he believed it to be by inadvertence, for 1 appointment of a general superintendent he could ,not quite understand from Mr. Stewart's previous I to committee for further consideration.b remembered that, at conduct that he would accept such a position as he had I Mr. Johnson said, it ought with Id _ ill ers. T ley had Stewart for him than against him on thi s question, because he Mr. Luya at the time, but saddle hey . now proposed to be relieved Mr. Hutchinson as general superin valued his evidence and his experience; but he claimed that of them, hy putting the mrkets at a salary of L 250 a-year • evidence and that experience, as a member of that council, for tendent over all in s his I t . 1 . 1 h • ' p ace a t e sout market • the benefit. of that corporation, so long as Mr. Stewart put Mr. Stonehouse • d the position of chairman of the finance committee. making such general . change se , - will l -the as on y cost council occupied r for the salaries. There were some reasons why The information which any gentleman occupying Mr. £920 a-yea not be left standing over to the next Stewart's position, as chairman of the finance committee, the matter should obtained, was the property of the corporation, and not his monthly council. . d th ssht th what, did he understand by corporate M. Gladstone sal c hi ou e ere was a question which property. Then „ .. _ any take recedenc o that matter, which was whether services otagentiemen but for the purpose would p body retaining the _ , ' n of advertising for the best man had not been of giving what information h e possesses,. and which he had the occasion obtained from his position f in the council )overlooked ) In the first It was unwise, to it was injudicious, and . it Was improper, to the prejudice of before itsatisfy the mouths of those who were not mem. markets' committee, that Mr. Hutchinson was the the corporation that the c . hairmati of the finance committee, hers of the 'man, and the most suitable person. It appeared that he who was in the secret of tha price they should take. for the best 4 isi se of, should•it the, same - 'nod held the situation market, and, preperty that they had. 01.3 1 P° „ this he moths aware, he had ilkhargesi his daty very well ; OM bootee the buyee / ma seller of property. It *AI' Iso 'far as . arbitrators, if they think it wise. I only wish. that the dock hoard may get the land for a fair, full, outside 'price ; - hat I have no fear that they will get it lOr less. I only fear that they will not get it for that. lam sorry to have taken up the time of the council. It is very much out of my usual- course to do so To discuss questions of this sort, is very.hurtful to me;' and I would much rather have been spared the necessity of making these few remarks upon' such a subject .. (Cries of hear, hear, and applause.) • Mr. Jeffery said it was so doubt very much to be depre cated that the time of the council should be taken up on any occasion" by'refehnee of members of that body to anonymous letters that might appear in yublic print. . It - was to flint notice thby owed - a portton at least of, the time 'which was occupteu at inc „„„„ n , and again of the reply made by 11r. Stewart to them within the last few minutes. If •no notice had been taken of that letter by a member of the . finance com 7 rnittee; ,he would certainly not have felt it his duty to have replied .to it. But it was his .duty, under the circumstances, to have taken such notice of the remarks that fell,from Mr. Steams 9n that occasion, in justification of himself. He . had received a. letter th'at morning from one of the gentlemen, who• was a member of the . deputation; thanking him for the e3planation he had made, and. endorsing every word that he uttered. Such Was the impres sion of the gentleman . aS a member of the d'epu.tation, and • - such . he stated • to "be the impressions of those who consti tuted that deputation. Mr. Stewart had • given his reply to it. The explanation, he was • perfectly sure, the deputation would receive, as it was offered with all the frank ness with which he . (Mr. Stewart) could offer it. (Hear.) He ventured, to dismiss this topic, with expressing a hope that no member of the council would again take any notice of anonyMous letters: He turned to another matter of more . vital importance as affecting the interests of the Corporation. He had ventured to state to that council that the chairman of the finance committee was sitting as arbitrator upon a matter wherein the corparation would very soc., , edily bee )me materially interested. Mr. Stewart had not - gainsaid that. As he understood -Mr. Stewart, the extent of their interest was 61 acres on the Birkenhead side on the martin of the pool. • Mr. Stewart explained that those 61 acres were under lease, and included more than the dock board had power over. There was 'perhaps about ene half of it involved. . . , tonehouse, correct; an 'he next was a reso o appoiu Mr. Jeffery, understood the_ depaty . chairman •of the finance Committee that they had sent in a dpinand, with other TandOWners, to the extent of 250,000, for land on the Birkenhead side of the water. Mr. Samael Tiolme said, he stated that it was formal claim they had sent in for something like that amount, but the whole matter was to be arranged by subsequent adjust ment: Bat, he'added, it would be impossible to adjust it before coming before the council. but it must be remarked. titot he had met with a censure from the committee. However, whether he was a,f4 person or not, he ought to have been exposed to the competition of other 'men. The reason,.hesaid, was, that he thought public offices should be filled' by public Competitiori: 'The, chairman of the committee had mentioned his reasons for proposing him. It was, however, with some degree of pain, and of very. bittet regret, that he referred .again to what took place on various occasions, but he would say that the gentlemen who retired from the markets committee acted on that occasion in a discreet, judicious, just, and honourable 'course, and ',he would defy any man to prove otherwise. He concluded by moving that the appointnient of Mr. Hutchinson be deferred, ,and that the markets' committee be reqUested td , advertise in the newspapers in the usual course for a general superintendent for all the markets. Mr. Jeffery said, he believed, when the _committee adverti4ed before for a person to fill the office ''nf general superintendent, there were no less than 1013 applications received. He wished •to know whether these applications had received that 'degree of attention to which. they were entitled' • ..• - a right to demand ? applications and which the app 116' wished to know how many of these bad been taken out of • the pigeon.h PIT them"since they wer )ttld not 'say wh T Mr. lintehinson was a competent anything he did know he might be . , perfectly competent. Mr. Carle said it would be seen from Mr. Jeffery's lan- that no on d ability to perform a public' daty out one was rather surprised to receive c odruff said they had heard a great deall - from Mr. Hodson; and Mr. Jeffery ; and lie would like to Hodson, as chairman of the 'water corn e knew of the collectors' books : ?: He isk Mr. Stitt, :e. how ranch hE what 1 a member of the I knew of the books of 'tommittE :ch of them venture t Mr. Hodson committee. I have, as chairman of the water Mr. Woodruff said, he was a member of the mittee, and he begged to say that Mr. Hudson done nothing of the kind. The circumstances of the markets' committee were not at all at present as they were three or four mouths They say the'necessity for a man to act as superin- Mr. Jeffery had asked what had water corn- tendent of the m to the last advertisement, but he had to tell Mr. Jeff the committee had acted according ,to the r council, in sending them. back '.to the haie opened them . and examined 'them zoins: beyond . their duty. With x whetlier the men those who had acted with him's nit if he vi liould not be then buff," he supposed gentlemen - knew emery well what that meant. .(Laughter.)- The committee thought the best plan they , eonld adopt-, tb prevent, not only those nui sauces, but other -nuisances caused by some parties having keys. to the gardcns a lervaut girls having keys, and taking in their paramours. (Great latighter.) And other nui sances of a somewhat similar description would be, that the watch committee should be requested to:place the Square gardens under their management. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Clint was sure the watch committee would be happy to lendoevery aid in their povver. The proceedings were then Confirmed. WATER COMM . . The proceedings of this comm Hodson moved their confirmation. Mr. Alderman Parker mid he had hrYped .ttee were rez and Mr the chairman would tell them something respectlo4 He understoOd that a committee had ihe price of the water appointed to con- Sider the matter 'in regard fo the price of the wate7 to the general supply , of manufacturers by metres; Mr. Hodson said the matter was now under invest that day and as to tell what was dime. Mr. Beckwith asked whetbn Mr. Duncan had not been accustomed to take discount off certainnteonhts without consulting the members of the committee. • " Mr. Clint also asked a question in reference to the com plaints made with respect to the supply of the. fountains Mr. Anderson said the dock heard was si that the water committee intended to make a ?repose. to bct e Council a mittee, prised to find the dock were not -walls; and no expianatiiin given designed,for the use of the workmen employed . by the dock board, but all who worked about the docks. He believed the works committee were going to wait upon the water committee on,the subject, to ascertain the particulars, as it was considered that there must anon on the subject. Mr. Far'nwarth said, 1 A when t was before culty in bringing it forward r hut he was very much surprises to hear that- an attempt was made to charge - Ole dock board for water f9r public purposes, while other fountains were supplied gratuitously _ M. ilyley said, h last two speakers Mr. Anderson said they . board had received no dock board was present on th e occasi-- - discussion. Ire should be very ?arnworth of his reasonable f it ' came to this, that whenever a re that the dock ion ; the chairman of thp ind took part 4eprive 3rry to. ( iolution was i 1 arnei IA Air Farn*Qrtll an terwar runner occasion, he th fountains was paid for t,y t handsomely: A stated in t give it for, and he wondered how , the dock board,.vho had taken the whole dock estate out of their control; could have the modest isurance to refuse to pa such a matt sum as and which £42 a year to supply their people with NI was for the goo, - - Of the water committee, they h ad .not.it in their power to sup revenue zratuitoasly ply this Ovate £23,000, and they were obliged to charge for all water used. lie thought, if Mr. Varnworth.had sought for information on the subject, he would not have opposed. it to-day. It was their poverty mare than their will that obliged them to muke the charge. Before Mclly's.fountains were established, the inhabitants only paid ld in the pound for, watering pur poses, but these fountains formed a peg on which was hung another penny, and wrung out of the pockets of the rate payers. It was a necessary, nay a compulsory, cha— the part of the water committee. Mr. Dover said, the distinction was this, that - they sup plied no water on private property but that. which was paid for: •ge on Mr. Hodson said, that the engineer had, for some time past, been engaged in levying a,ratr.; for water on different .operties a committee of in iry was now taking short tin and would iiscrepancies which had be alluded to prevent He imagined liffered from the peoole of. the town if the' eommi that the wa were to ,9;i water wherever it was sought. To prodlice tlie water cost a large sum of money, and he maintained that while they did not give the water gratuitously to the poor people, and as these dock fountains wete in a great measure to prevent the men from going outside the gates to get drink, and by which the dock board "would be benefitted,he should charge for the supply of water. Mr. Beckwith, amidst cries of " Order" and " Chair," said that Mr. Hodson did not answer his question. Mr. Hodson said he had answered the question, and he wouljegain repeat that Mr. Duncan had done as Mr. Beck— with mad stated. DA TH43 007,1MITTBE, Mr, W. P. Jeffreys moved that the proceedings be con- firmed. Mr. Anderson thanked the committee for- the prompt consideration they had given to the memorill of the inhabitants of Everton, in reference to a plunge bath. Mr. Gladstone observed. that the committee had resolved to apply to six coal proprietors to send in tenders for the supply of coals. - He did not see why these tenders should not be thrown open to competition, a - nd he moved au amendment to that effect. accordingly. Mr. Jeffery seconded, the motion, and Mr. Holden sup ported it. Mr. Jeffreys said the committee would not have the slightest objection. The .amendment was therefore adopted, and the pro— cedings were confirmed. SPECIAL IMPROVEMENT COMMITTEE Mr. Jeffery moved that the proceedings be confirmed. The motion was carried: , The ' , Coroner's account; amount mitted. • ' Mr. Parker drew attention:to the fact, that out of sixteen to £55, was sub— TOWN iLA.LL ESTAqtLISIIMENT COMMITTEE, post morsten examinations,, one surgeon was engaged in The proceedinrrs comprised a recommendation that the eight of them. He objected to one surgeon having so much. pnblic rooms ancestairease of the Town-hall be re-painted of the business, and thotight it should be more divided. and decorated at a cost of £2,500. • The account then passed. Mr.' Alderman Holme, in moving. the confirmation, The Corporation balance-sheet of the assets and liabilities stated that the present:expenditure was found to be neces- up to the close of the last financial year, was laid upon the sary in consequence of the present state of the rooms and table. staircases. .n oppose Mr. Jeffery requested t hat a return of the outstanding Mr, Alermad Cooperd the motion. , . - arrears of ground-rent should . he laid upon the table. Mr. Jeffery suggested some delay, as -it was- not yet Mr. Stewart promised_ that the return should be made out. certain how far the occupation of the Town H all mi g ht be Mr. Jeffery asked for an explanation in reference to an affected by the erection of the new public offices. in Dale- amount ustees of tof £9‘,08:3, St. state to beCde u metere to y the corporation by the he James's street. . Mr. Ryley supported the motion, believing the present , . Mr. Stewart stated that, previous to the reformed corpo state of the rooms a disgrace to the council ancl.the town. . ration's existence, £7 ; 000 was a dvanced by the corporation Mr. Stewart, Mr. Woodruff , a nd Mr. Gardner, supported I towards the construction of that cemetery, under the act the motion. . • of Parliament. The. money was advanced upon some - Mr. Gladstone suggested that the re-decoration should be I.fi nn • g. like anengagement, that thecorporation and other confined to the entertaining rooms and staircases, and moved parties who, advanced it, should be paid five per -cent. an amendment to that effect, which was .seconded by Mr.. interest, but never any. more. (Hear, hear.) Ir., ; 1841, Cropper ; and being put to the vote, was. negatived by 19' Mr. Henry Lawrence. who always took an active part in to 10. ' the management of the cemetery, finding that the interest The proceedings were then confirmed: had not been paid, proposed to add the amount Or interest GARDENS, LIBRNItY, AND MUSEUM COMMITTEE. which had accumulated so far to the capital, and.,o make The proceedings contained a recommendation that the the interest payable upon the increased sum, The amount, • care of the several Square Gardens should be placed in.the however, had never been paid. He believed there was no hands of the police ; that the gardens should be closed at a moans of recovering, any amount but by selling what might certain hour, and night-locks affixed, the keys of which be called three shares of £lOO each, which be believed should be placed in the hands of. the police. The further would not realise much at present. consideration of the subject had been, deferred. Mr. Jeffery asked whether the council had po,wer at the • Mi. Avison asked why parties were prevented from play- time; j to grant the loan, or advance ? ' ing at cricket in the Corporation. Park ? The Town Clerk said they had.. He did' not know Mr. Alderman Holme sa'A, he had received a very well- whether the bonds or shares were 'ever delivered to the written letter upon the same subject that morning, corn- council. (Laughter.) plaining that young men were not allowed to play at cricket Mr. Alderman Holme said he alWa.vs' looked upon the there, even up to nine o'clock in the morning, which' would, amount as a bad debt, in fact, as the coat oil's. subscription be a great advantage to those who were occupied in busi r . to the cemetery. ness all the day. The subject was referred to the, Balance c ommittee, to . _ Mr. Beckwith (who moved the confirmation of the pro- report upon. ceedings, in the absence of the chairman,) said, the Om- The consideration of the letter of the Liverpool Law mittee had had a great number of complaints made of Society, as to the appointment of a second stipendiary boys always playing cricket in the park everywhere„ magistrate, was postponed to next council. Which rendered: it perfectly unsafe for people to The Town-clerk reported that the bill introduced by cart walk there and still more unsafe to send their children owners to repeal a certain portion,of the sanitary act regu there. The committee never gave any permission for the lating the width of carts, hail passed the House of Lords. playing of cricket there. Three or four years ago, when The effect of this would be to,a l lo w the power to limit the application was made for permission to, play it in the various width of carts not to apply for seven y ears, as regarded all parks and gardens. it was refused, inconsequence of the danger 1 carts buil t previous to the passing of thi s la s t act, The bill which mast attend it. had yet to pass through, the Commons, and, the council Mr. Alderman Gardner suggested that a portion of the could, if they thought proper, petition against it in the park should be railed off for the purpose. (Hear, hear): Commons, but probably.. they would regard this as a satis- Mr. Alderman Turner called attention to the very serious factory settlement of th e question. (Hear' hear.) complaints made of the irregularities in the Palkner - squar e Mr. Gladsto ne suggested that the ".fr i wn-clerk-, should gardens. draw up a report s which would explain, the nature of the Mr. Jeffery said, a subscriber to those gardens called upon I act to those interested in it, and which, might be printed. him, complaining of boys running , races within the railings The Towavelerk undertook to do. so. come before the committee, and the committee did every- the Ist of June last, be postponed." Oh' thing in their power to put down such unseemly praotices. In. consequence of the lateness of the hour, Mr. lio They were informod that parties. were running races in the . , isQP. agreo, to, nostpone the motion to. the neat meeting. of those gardens, to the great annoyance of parties who The following motion, of which Mr. Hutchison had had a right to he there for the purpose of promenading, and given notice, stood upon the paper : " That the sale of entirely to the destruction of what was intended to be the certain houses and land situate upon St. James's Walk, use of the gardens. ' proposed to be sold by resolution of the finance committee! Mr. Beckwith said, representations of that character had of the 27th May, 1859, and confirmed by the council 013 garstens "in the buff." (Great laughter.) Yes, "in tha k The council then rose. Stitt, Mr know from M world committee were right, had spell and gni(' that Want ,an-.t . . . :surer's report they had everything that was rinht, with both Mr. liutchinson and Mr. Stonehouse Mr. Hutchinson would rather keep the situation which h( now held than make any change, but the committee con• sidered it would be to . their advantage to make the proposei at all. In tt Mr ° . Bowring said, when he brought forward a resolution, Considering that Mr. Luya was unfit for duty, and, that he should' be examined, Mr. Woodniff, wals,the first who said that they were condemning a man unheard,. He was not one of those who thought that an old servant should be neglected to malib room fOr a stranger, considering all other things equal, and he would vote for Mr. Hutchin son ; but, at the same time, he would say of thoSegentlemen who had left the committee that their opinions were com-' pletely stifled. He was of opinion that had their view been taken of matters Mr. Luya would long before have been found out. He considered the parties to blame were the members of the executive of the committee. _ which Mr. I Saine fltrther discussion took place ; during Mosley, Mr. Stitt, M Mr. Clint, Mr. Turner Parker, Bidlei, Mr. Beckwith, Mr . . Kitchen, Mr. D.yley, Mr. ,ressed their, opinions on the Mr: s there appeared— For—Councillors Stitt, Corbally, §teains, Ryley, Mozley Sob, Gladstone, Jeffery, Kitchen, iloition, Clint, Beckwith and Cropper; Alderman. Turner; the Mayor. . —Councillors, Anderson, Woodruff, Crellin, Shi;rimin, Haydock, Holden, Avison, Holme, Bowring, Rae, Jeffreys, Ridley, Johnson, Robertson Farnyforth, and Anthony ; Aldermen. Parker, Cooper, Gardner, and Holme. The amendment was.therefore lost . 14gain - si The appointment of Mr. Ilittchinson,,n* inspector,there fore stands over to the next council, in accordance with the regulations. The appointment of the other managers also were allowed to stand over. Mr. Johnson moved that two collectors be appointed at £lOO a-year each. Mr. Bowring thought the salary too low; and proposed, as an amendment, that it be £l2O. Mr. James Ilobne seconded the amendment, believing that the additional £2O would procure a very superior class of men The amendment was lost by seventeen to seven ;commendation was therefore carried. Thp general proceedings were confirmed. E C&TION COMMITTEE. Mr. Anderson moved the conßrmation of the proceedings. Mr. Gladstone said he believed, and he hoped it was the case, that the children of the Corporation Schools were not allowed to walk in that most silly procession which once a-year traversed the most crowded thoroughfares of the town, causing great danger of accident. He begged to ask if that was the fact ? Mr. Anderson was sorry to say that he could not give a positive 'answer. Mr. Aldermen Gardner said he could answer it. The children were not allowed:to Walk in the procession. (Hear, hear•) The proceedings were not-confirmed , ffeo tea! e for .epO t 0 8 ! 010' plate The July , f the 'th a t a fter by $ tbal mnl9 these Ym 3/1 di the eralli ed b who 'ed to iread- aliere Una!, nee 0, — We Nth ers RoYsl m our, With red to r the ke t° ire no ecteel vdneY .ay to ;u ncil bling thin ffould h9uia :e the fog j u gly ) Will ear