Northern Times. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-04-14 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL. The adjf urned meeting of the Town Council, was held at eleven o'clo' k yesterday, in the Town Hall, the Mayor in the chair. The Mayor, previous to the sounced to the council that 1' 311 r. Bolton Case, Ur. John Dean C The Town-cler, ss conarnenoing, an- had received a letter from informing him of the dea th of ,hi- lather letter, which briefly lictified the fact of Mr. C s death EDUCATION commairzE, The proceedin lowing recommer 'Glover and Mr. per annum xt:)poin per annun Owens £5 of salai tions, 1 mt ndat until tl made c espectiw Dalzia .1 recorair is a pupil, , anu na attendance of the from 7 books at 'the firs! )f 4this moni 'the kin Tie cot (II( , learn, that the nuintrcr of chi ___. efficient stat it V7Ol and in order ssary to if then Glacisti correct in som without e up a-sore of 'ver the.educatior that it is ~dimast for the becomes at ,onn that gentleman. not erceeding .aamei Ell £6O to Si said the 'Tecommene COUtieli. beVE ave been mace all the to One- , of them cm-nu )t in •tt I would bi )n the b keep thew .e assistw s committee contiii.vad the fol -1. That th salaries of lienr I by tho sum of £lO d assisttnt master be 30 per annttm, rs in the Soutl 3 ; and Mr. Wa ions for increas according to the regal to postpone 't t. Two of A the North Corporation sere were '836 boys on t rod, he believed, - the sehx in that condition ~~ whiff nth to the Tublic the pr.l fair ref of the co mmunit spectsi should not g laTsation and•R.lthough reference •to it -opens old staratiing„ yet, n the ehait s in his pla, d 'informs us id proper questiQn to put to we ask him, when calling upon us to if we•are onty rearing ame time —it does appear )e dealing in mere plapibilities if not in something, worse, to intorm its funds rare expended in reference to tt cams spirit, in a similar manner, and for as our funds are laid out in reference to every connected-With the corporation. (Hear, hear.) The object and the intention of thettn.unicipal reform act were, that all classes of -society should have an equal interest, and derive .or annal civanta crA from the P inenditure of the public tar purposes, r matter that he to the number Of R ;man - Catholics attending They form, at least/ from one- )art of to taut persuasion n Ilv. yet I entertair a very high respect for them, so long as I have the uriVilege ig any portion of the community, to secure at large the exercise of those rights and to which each is as much entitled as any other and 1 am anxious, represe for the public privileg© class. ( Now, if the chairman could con numbers of children attending sciention Hear, hea: 13* tell us that t the schools represent in. fair proportions the various 'sections ng the different religious creeds, such a declaration - would be, I am free to admit, most of the prof( satisfactory certainly to myself, if not to every other member of the council. But if it be merely, as .I are nursing up a sort of lefore, that for one particular I say, o the resoceive creeds of the variot ear, hear.) Becaus the place of p expending , fends which se academies —if we nits alone. while at the ke belong to all have said monopoly den cy schools are acting equally favourably to all classes of the community, is little better than a delusion and a snare. (Hear, hear) It becomes a very serious matter for con sideration, too, whether -.these constant applications for hould not come to a termination. ;,.appear to me that the addition or even one hundred children increase of Llary It does a- (Hear, hear Af twe is no r ;on whatever wh. the schoolmaster or schoolmistress !salary. They _should have pro- effective indeed, as regarded humility and respect for the opinions of others. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr. Parker had said that the schools were conducted upon Protestant principles. 'lie (sir. Sheil) believed that to be the fact, indeed .he knew it to be so; but when Mr. Parker told them that they were conducted according to the constitution of the country, that gentleman seemed Co forget that the municipal aeforra act was part of the constitution f the country, and that that act placed all citizens upon le did not object to the schools admitt ant principles g up' and eni ng)thing which 'w Parker said they but he dit ,vouring to del Zischildren to ian UA were, up ot ladstor paying of should have au llotted to them in the first instance, am ie consideration of the numbe not to be made upon us, a per salarie independent entirely of ti ,t not i form in which they now appea mistake, I think, and a very grave one, that any person should be -employed in the position of teacher, who shall not have at once provided, for him or her as the case may • be, a sufficient suns to maintain that person independently and respectably. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman Parker said, when Mr. Gladstone talked about the plausibility of the chairman of the education committee, any gentleman present who had watched Mr. Anderson's conduct could say whether that gentleman deserved to be charged with plausibility. The schools for the education of the-poor of the town were established upon the same principle as the . constitution of the country (Hear, hear.) The constitution of the country was Prote-s -igh he (Mr. Parker) had a great respect thren, as p. it as Mi. Gladstone, or anybody else; that was not a question upon which they could be. placed upon the .same footing as Protestants. Hnndreds of Roman Catholic children did attend the schools now, and many more would attend if they were not prevented. The doors were open to all,. and there was no exclusion. He protested against gentlemen ripping up an old sore in the council. - Mr: Stitt said, he had no desire whatever to rip np the school question. Perhaps the present was.not the time to do it. The subject was far too widcand .of too vast impor . tance to be raised without previous notice. At the same time, he believed, that there were many gentlemen ,-who conscientiously entertained different opinions from those which fell from Mr. Parker, :and the chairman of the schools committee. It was not because they differed as to the value of education. A thing might be valuable, and ,at there might be right and wrong views as to the mode of supplyi the duty o people ; 1)1 to raise tha extremely His own impression was_that it was not upply education to the er the - Piesent the proper time ►oald, with Mr. Gladstone, be 1.1 of the committee z them som'eas with t that the arrangements_in connection hools were of such a nature as to allow all classes nts to avail themselves of them. Mr. Andersor dto the numbers on the books, but he knew, Teal experience of day schools, that there was a inhabi had refer from_pra between ti number on the book me. Ile was him, and the camber ch received no aid from ind in which there were being educated FUO . 0r . `•.6b0 children in regular attendance. Mr. n Parker had said that the schools were based upon is the constitution. Not very along ago iurch rate& rested upon a con- self awar the corporat some Aldo .s happy to see that a very .considerat was coining over public lien in 'F' with rE al Chang Anion before principle, dispersed of creed; Tared fr. that they Mr. Glad ne in the general on ought to IQ general benefit of all, wi listinetio: but y:Con tend liYtjrell who s Loul4 that th matter poor enou o As were perfectly open to every person, no its religious denoruinations might be. -qs delighted to ind that no child was r +he echools on account of his creed. .h and ragged enough, a fuseu atu....----- differed with Mr, Gladstone as regarded the possibil fixing the salaries at the outset. Such a rule could Apply to the corporation schools, for many of the teat were inducted into that office when they were little r than chiMren, at very small salaries, and when they g up to be inen and woman, of course they could not c upon the same kind of pittance Mr, AldermOn Gardner did not know of any class BO poorly paid is the teachers of schools. If Mr. stilt would go and look at these schools he would be delighted with them, and he would find that all classes were admitted there. th T s.e h n e d. tliel i committee r ns e te l . i. a i d l d d r o e f i n b a l i t o l o w th i t n h e g y e could 6 stimulate parents If gentlemen, schools. (Hear, hear.) would their trumpets, and making a loud uproar ni th e . chamber, would come and lie see the b. _ r they hoped the council alter their opinions regarding them. (Hear, hear, and would hear no more of suCh laighter.) nonsense. 'n which the last gentle- Mr. Sheil said, from the m anner i bepeculiarly fitted man closed his address, he appeared to o.. , ) el If he for the instruction of childreff. UAIII=S III -:' must be very ad dressed them in such a manner, WA example which • is to 1€ (Hear, hear.) .en agt the funds if the c enter th ad.. the public'to believe that these object to any on not fair asked him Roman Catholic principt Cattl." (Hear, lie pm 1 with hat tt ,he community i.ar). Ire appealed to Mr. Anderson, id felt that that gentleman would sal- heir ch.ktr in amnctance. was•tmeording to the dot wonhl think - of other .offs hether he would allow school matta nt prayers - ; -and he e i , to his religion, or what prof and opened with. Roman Pre way no Roman Catholic 4 sioas hE tion'te the general prinoij be lailt to I gto it. (Hear hiou *Wet .'ter the ie contended they perforriied. Jrdinz to the ntimlier of one of'thein a - a salary to a cletk, in any whosetinosiaight not be half occupied, as they would to one who io.:tv It might be that the .are time, after sitting members of tluit com -311 a state of filth and ie council. I - hear a 'mad .c The Mayor said, the question of the salaries was to stand )r, and the sneaker must confine himself to the:.geleral to cc,inmittee tlderm; ett said he would not go further, but Vac proceedings of the committee would say th id not see any n ;eessity to.infroduce that discussion as it would give - rise to 111 feeli it room and , e-at of door wetild only say that the committ, not d o anythin, - ; ,vent al iss of chi dren from corning to those trained rules, whiih.the com a any class of the community could Is in conformity with the rules. There cathe- l'he council :tarian in th Jhureh of England was taughtto,such of the llowed to be taught so by their parents not wish to be taught it were As Mr. Sheil had applied to him, he would say that he thought it not likely that R9tnan Catholics would.attend those schools. Wear, hear.) With who cl any,]P to learn not oblig ...ad to what.llfr. _ —id, as . to the numbers in attendance and the number on the books, he had to say, that the number of boys on the books in the northern Stitt had corporation schools; and if there was one thing . which should give the council more pleasure than another, in the way of doing good, it. was in the edt corporation schools ion tha was riven , The proceedings, resoluti housc and reports of the gaol and mitten were read and confirmed. The proceedings of the gardens, library, and museum committee were read and confirmed. The proceedings of the water committee were .read, and eir confirmation moved by the chairman of the com- Enlace Mr. Picton asked if anything had been done to remedy the Millstone leak, by whick 263,000,000 gallons of water were wasted ? Dr. Hodson replie - d, that operations were now going on to have the water turned into the reservoir, which would cost £6OO Mr. Bennett •said he thought Dr. Hodson was tinder a Id not be turned into the reservoir,. but as it cou; into the tank The proceedings were then confirmed. The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the baths committee were read, Wagstaff, in moving the confirmation of the pro- .ceedings of the 'committee, - said it was gratifying to find that the numbers had increased considerably. In Corn wallis-street no lewer than 16,703 had availed themselves of the baths, which was an increase of 2,690 ; - St. George' -4,418 s, for the quarter ending 23rd Febru which was an increase of 814 ; Paul-street 4,490, being, an increase of 26. The total number being 25,611, giving a total increase of 3430. The washers had increased 2,561, ,ht look nto consideration the At the last was a memorial ton for baths, and and the income was £54 Os Bd. This income mi inconsiderable, but .when they tool whole matter they could not think so the council of meeting from the inhabitant there Ev( and it was referred to the bath's committee, and they were busy with the subject. Mr. Beckwith wished -to ask the chairman 'of the com mittee, whether the people who washed at the wash-houses, were women who took washing by the lump, or as poor people ? igstaff said he had great pleasure to be able to ,say e-fourths of the people who availed themselves of ouses were the proper kind of people. Mr. Earle was glad to know how much these places had been appreciated by the people of the town. He thought it would be well to have baths in Everton district. If they could not make them on such an extensive scale as those of Cornwallis-street, they might make them in such a way as they could be improved after. Mr. W Alderman Garftner was in favour of their having baths in Everton. Some further observations were made, and the proceedings of the committee were confirmed. WIDTH OF CART The special committee appointed by the council to con sider a communication from the Chamber of Commerce, on the subject of the provisions contained in the Sanitary Amendment Act, regulating the width of carts were read, and the following was THE REPORT, " That having carefully considered the evidence pro duced before them►, and the several communications received from the Chamber of Commerce and other associations, they are of opinion that this evidence shews that the present restriction as to the width of carts is impolitic, and if enforced would be injurious to trade, by causing increased cost in the transit of tee are also of opinion that it is desirable to seek powers to regulate the width of carts, e loads, by bye-laws to be framed from time to .1 of having the width .absolutely t. reserving to the Mayor the 'our comma as well x time by t restricted by act of par power alrea th ,d by hula under nitary act " If this power were conferred, the council would be enabled, after full enquiry, from time to time to regulate the width of carts with due regard to the reasonable require ments of particular trades, or the introduction of new articles of commerce, or different descriptions of packages. " Your commit ee submit with th report t evidence taken before them, and the various communications which have been from time to time addressed to them." 'Mr. Graves said he thought as bat fair to state t ___.... ...-., that report was far from being unanimously recommended by the committee, but was secured by the ca s ti ng vo t e o f ces he would not the ell have d but th .man. Under ordin eided on a question of such inn t he was aware that in so doin in that way, is bringing it fore that council where it would get a full and public that bad been submitted had first, through the passion. The evidence n obtained from three sources chamber of commerce, and tk ugh the cart owners them: given viva voea, and had been taker writing would not necessary for him to enter into any review as it had been laid 1- of the evidence, extenso. He would culty in obtaining.ii ay that they re them rd to the number of vehicles plying at the present me.._ arisen from the manner in which the registration of the carts had been kept. But we find the following lo be the return of number of carts, &c., registered from the 12th May, 1854, to the Bth December, 1858 :—Carts, 15 cwt. and above, 278 ; floats of all weights, 144 ; lorries of all weights, 121; waggons of all weights, 64; timber carriages, 17. Total, 624 Small carts, under 16 cwt., 614. Total number carts, &c., registered ih four and a half years, 1,238. He would say, for his own part, that he wished the straight wheel might come intomore general use. On the one hand, it appeared to him that they had an act of parliament, ob tained by that council in 1854, containing a clause, which he would just read. " That it shall not be lawful to drive tcharrte, uwgg gli waggon, or along any street in the borough any carriage, lorry, float, or other vehicle, which shall, in the widest part thereof, including the wheels thereof, mea sure more than seven feet six inches in breadth ; and any person o n N , vhloorrshy, allflodrLN:eo, conductrleaodth,eorrvehicle, anywhi which carriage, sh all e cart, xce ed inch width ? and the owner of any ny such carriage, cart, Ni mittee carried out was nothing -children as were TTAE NORTHERN TIMES, THURSDAY, APRIL 14 1859 gory, lorry, float, or other vehicle, who shall permit tin same to be driven in or along any street in any part of the said borough, shall forfeit and pay a sum not exceeding five pounds for every day on which such offence shall be committed; provided, that until the first day of June, one thousand 'eight hundred and fifty-nine, no such penalty shall be imposed, or shall accrue, or become payable in 'respect of any carriage, cart, waggon, lorry, float, or other vehicle, which has been duly re gistered at the office of the town-clerk before the pas4ing of this act under any law now in force." The clause concludes by empowenng the Mac; or to license anything 'beyond these dimensions for any special purpose. This act was obtained in 1851, but up till dune 1859, was allowed 'to wear any out, such as might be 'constructed and in use at that time which dig not come under the dimensions snuffled. It appeared that, at the present moment, such carts had been allowed to remain and to run through the streets without giving a pretext for the ‘obtaining of thrtt act. The public feeling seems to be that if this act were adopted that it would be a tax on the commerce of 'the port—and that it woulderabarrass the trade and traffic of the port—and that it would be impolitic, and interfere with 11d be a cause of from this, he vould great outl: to cart-owner say they might to get back the power they had parted with. and that they should he always ready to meet the wants of - the trade and traffic of the town, as from time to time these wants may be made known. He would take the timber trade—a branch of trade which he was acquainted -with— and he would base his aro-um/its on the st •,3 atements of ;nttion that received .5 port ailillla lly, tie uoinu iiuo nc expected to give them anything like the inconvenience that would He would just read 111r:Fleming's letter, - which was as follows : ,ere was, on an a' ,de, 400,a50 tons of timb, "^ro S. R. GRAVES, ESQ "My dear Sir,—lt is very difficult to arrive•at anything like an accurate estimate of the money value of the cartage of timber and deals in 'Liverpool; but as:urning that all the timber and deala coming into Liverpool undergoes at least one cartage for either yarding or shipping off, and nore than one half a second cartage in shipping ughly estimated at £30,000. icity of the carts or timber of a fifth or a ley do at pro vehicles employed about the docks. Mr. Noakes, if his evidence was worth anything, and Mr. Pitson, on behalf of Messrs. Canworth and Ca., said distinctly that if these conveniencies were afforded at the docks, it would make the position of matters very different. He heard one of the members of the committee, who was very much of the chair man's way of thinking, state, that if this clause in the act would not be repealed, ' that the traffic on the dock, from the increased number of carts, would become so great that there would be no getting past. That was so palpable an exagge ration that he asked that gentleman afterwards whether he still adhered to the statement, and he did not understand that he was disposed to reiterate that sentence. The council would bear in mind that to the proportion of the width of these vehicles was the inducement, the temptation, and the means of imposing a heavier load than would be possible under other circumstances in the wear and tear of horse flesh, and the wear and tear of the pavement in the vicinity of the docks. There was no place equal to Liverpool, no town where he knew of such cruelties to animals so constantly inflicted as from day to day were inflicted in this town. It is all very well to say, why do not the riolice force bring these people before the magistrate. But no police force could meet the emergency. It was not the exception, but the rule, that these floats went on the footpath in order to let pass. The, carting in this town was in an position. The evidence of the borough surveyor, who he believed to be an intelligent, practical man confirmed the principle, that in the vicinity of the docks—more especially at the Wapping-docks, and some others which he particularised, where these floats were constantly carrying these immense loads to the extent of three and a half tons per wheel instead of two tons, which he considered the outside weight,—these streets required reparing four times for once. If they were to place any weight on the opinion of any man it should be on that of their own officer. There was only one circumstance which others anomaloits made him feel anxious to carry out his views in opposition to the chairman of the committee ; that was, that in the , course of eight or ten years these vehicles would condemn themselves, and, in the mean time, very much damage would be done to the pockets of the ratepayers. In Manchester, some of the old fashioned carriages were gradually being got rid of. The carriers were now introducing four wheeled waggons drawn by two horses abreast, arid were of a much lighter construction, and carrying au equal load. The council should bear in mind also, that this law had compelled several highly respectable individuals, who were engaged in the trade of -Liverpool, to have new carts con structed on the new principle—Messrs. - Woodall and Jones, who, although they had signed the memorial, had provided themselves with a cart on this altered principle, and with wheels constructed on the perpindicular line, and with the new box axles. They were told by two of the witnesses that these axles would not answer, and one gentleman said, in the course of 18 months he had tried the iron knaive to the new box, and that it was completely wrought out, and that it would not suit his purpose at all. That was entirely contrary to the result of experience in every other place. But, as he stated before, they had not a really practical scientific opinion from any one of those who were kind enough to come forward and give their evidence. Mr. Capstick, and others, wheelwrights, had constructed carts about 7 feet 5 inches over, which afforded the convenience to the same extent for stowage as those at present in use. The notice of the health committee was to be disregarded because they had got an act of parliament, which nobody knew anything about---it was the first act of parliament he ever knew to be got iu that way ; because they would not be allowed five years more to wear out the vehicles now in existence, they wanted the law reversed. He was not in favour of the recommendation to leave a certain power in the hands of the Mayor. How muchsoever he respected the gentleman who filled the office of Mayor, he contended that there should be nothing belonging to the body corporate left in the hands of one man. It would be difficult to find out how many waggons and carts there were in the town ; not for any fault at the Town-hall, but many people used carts and floats that were not registered at all, availing themselves of other numbers, and running the risk of a fine. He did not think it was the province of the Town-clerk to ascertain the width any vehicle. He thought that immaculate body, which never did anything wrong, either as to markets or anything else, should, before their registrations were granted, have instructed the Town clerk to have sent a competent person round to inspect each vehicle, and see if it was in the required dimensions. (Hear, hear.) He thought they were in fault there. In regard to the timber waggons, some of them were stated to be 8 feet 6 inches wide, and these invariably broke the law when turning corners, as they were obliged to go on the opposite side ; and when speaking to the owners of these, they seemed not to be aware at all of the fact. Again, a witness was asked as to the width of a pipe of wine, and a warehouseman of great respectability could not tell the width. It was stated to be six feet. He thought the council should maintain their consistency and their dignity, and not rescind the law which they had ob tained for the protection and good of the ratepayers, and at their expense. The ratepayers were not bound to do what was almost an impossibility in providing such material as would stand the wear in those streets at the docks. The dock-board should provide the cranes along the docks, which were essential to the trade of the port. And although these men who gave their evidence were entitled to every consideration, they were not well educated men, and did not possess in themselves any scientific in formation .on these subjects. Mr. Capstick, who appeared to be one of the most practical men, and whose evidence was in direct contradiction to others, had invented an axle which had been proved to work well.' It would be a great injustice to those who had got their vehicles altered, to meet the law, if it was now rescinded. They should deal out even-handed justice to all parties, and he did not see that there had been any case proved, either before them or before the committee, that should make them alter their former, decision. It should be proved, first by practice, that it was disadvantageous, before they were called upon to act as advised by the chairman of the committee. And he must protest against the funds of the corporation being applied to that which seemed to be both Unnecessary and uncalled for. If there were parties out of doors anxious to get the law changed, let them get it changed if they could, but the council had obtained a law, at great expense, which they believed to be for the good of the community, and unless there was some practical abuse shown by the result of experience, in his opinion they ought not to take any steps whatever to have the law changed. Mr. Alderman Bennett quite agreed with Mr. Gladstone, that it was right and justifiable in such a case as that to upset the proceedings of committees carried by the casting vote of the chairman, and he was glad to hear that senti- meat enunciated by Mr. Gladstone at that particular time. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He agreed in general with Mr. Gladstone's common-sense speech. He contended that the commerce of the port was restricted in no way more than by disputes and stoppages in the narrow streets, and he moved, therefore, a direct negative to the proposition of Mr. Graves. Mr. Kitchen contended that, by reducing the loads of goods--say loads of cotton, from twenty to fourteen or sixteen bales the council would inevitably create a necessity for supplying • the deficient amount by increased cartage. He declared that the evidence which the committee had procured was the best which could have been had, and asked where the council could obtain greater experience in such subjects than from the Chamber of Commerce, the American Cham ber of Commerce, the Warehouse Association, the Bridgewater Trustees, and the other great bodies, of which some members had given evidence before the committee. He urged that in most of the narrow streets at present, where one cart could now pass, the proposed reduction would not enable two carts to pass, while in the wider streets the reduction was not required to enable the two to pass. They would therefore, he maintained, gain nothing in either instance by the change which was proposed. The slightest increase in charges would have the tendency to send some portion of their traffic to other ports, and he therefore strongly supported the report of the committee. Mr. Alderman Parker also supported the report Mr. Ryley denied that the Cotto n B ro k er S' Association were in favour of this report. With the exception of six or seven, the members of that body did not wait to hear Mr. Noakes. These six or seven examined him for about ten minutes, and then passed the resolution whi c h h a d been referred to. When he (Mr. Ryley) brought the subject before the next meeting of the body it was unknown to any but those five or six, and the rest were astonished at such a thing, it never having been discussed. lie protested against it, and . from that day it never was alluded to, one way or the other. From his own experience, backed and corroborated by every cart-owner of whom he asked the question, floats were not the carriages they would load cotton on, but the lorry was in all respects a better convey ance for such goods. Mr. Alderman Dover contended that, when the council received a memorial from an association, they were bound to believe that it represented the feelings of that association. He was one of those who took a part in promoting the section of the act of parliament ; but if he did wrong—and he could not put his judgment against that of 300 members of the first firms in Liverpool, and 200 practical men, such as cart-owners, wheelwrights, &c.—he felt that he was bound to state publicly that his views had been mistaken. (Bear, hear.). He thought Mr. Gladstone had, probably, without intending it, spoken very disparagingly of Mr. Hoax. Several members : Mr. Noakes. (Laughter.) Mr. Dover : Well, I mean Mr. NOakes - . Mr. Gladstone : No, I should rather you left the name as you first gave it, Mr. Hoax. (Great laughter.) Mr. Dove" contended that Mr. Noakes was a very well informed and intelligent person, and that his evidence was very important upon that subject. He reminded the conn cil that other towns had no such restrictions as it was proposed'to impose in Liverpool, and urgocl that if the conncil sought any power, it should bo merely a permissive power. Mr. Earle was in favour of repealing the act, because he did not go the length of the power sought there, but, at the same time, he agreed with a great deal which had been said by Mr. Gladstone, and he should be sorry if the council had not the power to make some regulations. Mr. Hodson thought there was something involved in the question more than the mere cheapening of commerce, important as that object might be. He alluded to the scenes of overcrowding and danger which took place every day along the docks, and stated that he had been informed by veterinary surgeons, that a great amount of the disease caused to horses in Liverpool came from the enormous loads which were laid upon them. Mr. Stitt denied that any argument, beyond the question of a little saving of the pavement of the town, had been given in favour of the proposed alteration of the law. He therefore supported the report of the committee. Mr. Holden supported the report. Mr. Clint urged that the members who opposed to the report were not those who advocated a change. They supported the settlement of the question which had been made in 1854. The change was made five years ago, and deliberately agreed upon, and it was for those who wished to change that settlement, to assi g n some valid reasons for the change. No such reasons had been given, and he therefore opposed the report. Mr. Picton said, restrictions upon commerce were at all times undesirable in themselves, unless justified by especial circumstances. The embarrassment of the traffic in narrow streets, and the wear and tear of pavement, had been the only circumstances assigned in this instance. He thought the first reason had been very well disposed of by Mr. Kitchen, and, as to the second, he reminded the council that the paving rate in some of the suburban districts, where no such traffic existed, such as Wavertree, West Derby, parts of Toxteth Park, &c., was much higher than in Liverpool. He did not mean to speak lightly of the humane considerations which had been suggested in support of the restrictions, but he thought, if they wanted an act of parliament on the ground of humanity, they ought to go plainly and definitely for an act upon that ground. He denied that the Corpora tion required to go to Hull, to Bristol, or to any other place to be taught their business, and contended that their teams of horses, in especial, were the admiration of every stranger who came to Liverpool. He declared that he frequently saw those horses in the evening, when their harness was taken off. as brisk as young lambs (laughter). Mr. Aikin supported the report, and eontended that it would be a reflection upon their local conduct of business to have such restrictions imposed upon them. . . Mr. Sheil complained of the - great exaggeraiion which had been employed in describing the effects wilich would result from the passing of the act. He stated that lorries would not be affected by it at all, and not even all fiats. He declared that the change would have no damaging effect whatever upon the commerce of the town. Mr. Ridley urged that. in those days of free trade, there should be free trade in carts as well as everything else. (Laughter.) Mr. Graves briefly replied. He denied that it was as insignificant a subject as Mr. Sheil had represented, and mentioned that the timber trade, which involved nearly half a million of tons, was not conducted' by a single flat. That, therefore, he contended, showed that the proposed change was recognised by the timber trade as affecting lorries. The council finally divided, when there appeared — For : The Mayor; Aldermen Dover and Parker ; Coun cillors Stitt, Crosthwaite, Woodruff, Holden, Barton Little dale, Graves, Ridley, Job, Earle, Pieton, Kitchen, Aikin, Farnworth, and Anthony-18. Against : Aldermen Bennett and Houghton ; Councillors Anderson, Sheil, Corbally, Haydoek, R.yley, Avison, Shand, Hutchison, Gladstone, Jeffery, Hodson, Clint, Beckwith, and Cropper-16. The report of the committee was therefore carried. Mr. Graves moved that the report be referred to the health committee, to carry out the recommendations of the report. Mr Sheil moved, as an amendment, that the further consideration of the subject be postponed till the next council. Some discussion took place as to what should be done with the report. It was at length put to the vote, when the amendment was lost by 16 to 11. It was finally agreed that any farther proceedings in the matter be left in the bands of the town-clerk. An application from Mr. William Johnston, district building surveyor, for an increase to his salary, was read, and referred to the finance committee. A letter was read from Mr. Alfred Reynolds, stating that he would give free admission to the Freemasons' Hall to any of the schools of the corporation. It was referred to the education committee. This concluded the business. LIVERPOOL PRODUCE MARKET.—Arnm 13 Colonial, &c : There is a steady market for &gar, and the transactions to-day comprise 550 bags Cossipore, at 47s 6d ; 2.750 bags Bahia, at 22s 9d for low brown, ex store, kit chiefly at 24s 6d for good, ex quay ; also 800, bags Pernams, at 245, and 1,600 bags Ceara, at 23s 9d per cwt., also ex quay. Rice continues in good request, but the firmness of holders prevents business. Nothing has taken place in Dyewoods. Of Ashes, small sales of Pearls, at 31s 6d. 10 tons Nitrate of Soda taken, at 16s per cwt. for fine quality. 50 tons Brimstone are reported at 15s to £8 per ton. 30 bales Persian Berries, at 45s to 46s 6cl; 75 bags Cutch, at 38s ; 500 bales Gambier, at 17s 3d to 17s 6d for sound, and 16s 9d to 17s for heated ; 75 chests Shell- Lac, chiefly orange, at 87s 6d to 90s; 150 bags ordinary Bombay Sallower, at lis to 15s ; 10 cases Borax, at 40s ; 380 bags Myrabolams, at 8s to 8s 3d; and 8 hogsheads Caster Oil, at 37s per cwt. Oils, 4.c.: Palm, at £44 10s ; nothing to notice in Olive. Tallow, 100 casks South American sold at 51s to 52s 6d for bright yellow. Of Rosin, 50 barrels at 4s 6d, and 50 barrels Spirits of Tur pentine at 42s per cwt. In Seeds we have to notice 2,700 bags Calcutta Rapeseed, at 44s per quarter. off, the cost of cartage may h if by any scans the e, carrying such lac body---either carter or timb3r merchant. Practical men tell me that a reduction of th 3 Carriar,res would throw them out one fifth on timber, and on deals from one-fith 'to one sixth. —I am, yours truly always, QUINTON 'FLEMING. "Liverpool, sth April, 1859, 83, Jordan-street, Queen's Dock." " P.S. They tell me also, and it seems reason - able, that if reduced in size of loads, they will, in order to do the same ged to put on an extra number of 3 quantity of traffic in the streets ; es were narrowed, the risk of the upsetting of the load would be great." . and so increase th The timber trade is carried on iii the extremities of the town. there was no danger to life in streets where this trade was conducted, and if they would, by the adoption of this act, injure the commerce "in this one branch of commerce to the extent of £5,000, it would be. a serious matter to the whole trade. The act was obtained for reasons threefold. First, for the protection of the pavement; secondly, for the facilitating traffic ; and thirdly, for the protection of the public. With regard to the first, he would say that it was a small matter compared with the trade of the port ; but even the paving of the town cost less than was paid for any other of equal importance in the kingdom. He did not care to see smaller vehicles through the town, nor could he see how the traffic would be increased. In reference to the third, he did not place much reliance in it, as he could not believe that the public could be better protected. He would tell them that the cart-owners were now engaged in getting a bill to repeal the act obtained by the council, and that they had a large amount of public sympathy. He had seen no less than 300 signatures attached in one day to the petition that lay in the Exchange News-room. He would state that the promoters of the bill would be very glad to agree with the corporation in making its own bye-laws on the snbiect, so as to have the matter favourable to both parties. He concluded by moving the confirmation of the report Mr. Gladstone said, , eight members were present at the last meeting of the committee. The chairman was one of them. Four voted in favour of the report, and four against it, and the chairman - gave the casting vote. Therefore, so far as the high-flown terms of the report were concerned, which, in his opinion were neither warranted by the evidence nor the circumstances, they seemed, he thought, to have come to a somewhat wretched termination. He was sorry that the matter had been mooted, for various reasons, among others, because it created a serious cause of difference between two great public:bodied. For, if the evidence was worth anything at all---andhe was not quite prepared to say that it was---it was worth so much as to prove that the great cause of wear and tear in the streets in the immediate vicinity of the docks, arose to a very considerable degree from the want of cranes and other machinery, so as to afford proper facilities for the loading of carts. Therefore, on that ground, he contended that this was in reality a dock affair. The ratepayers had put the streets in good order, and paved them with durable materials; and they were now called upon to pay an extra charge, because the trade of the port was conducted in vehicles which, in their form and structure, were a disgrace to any civilised country. It was fortunate for other places that no town in the kingdom could be found where such a barbarous system exists as that which was practised in Liverpool. One or two witnesses were called before the committee with reference to Manchester. He had since made it his business to inspect the vehicles in Manchester; and never was there an attempt in more glaring colours to put forward a fallacy than that to which lie had listened in that chamber, when the council were informed that they had condemned a plan which had been approved of elsewhere, and in Manchester in particular. But first of all, he should state that, on con sulting the report presented to the members of the council, he found, from what causes he was unable to state, that it was not a verbatim report of the proceedings of the committee. He never, in the whole course of his experience, whilst he admitted the highest respectability of the parties, their perfect claim to every privilege which municipality could afford them, and their title to consideration to all circum stances—he never met so many members of the community who appeared to him to understand so little of their own business. He spoke within the bounds of truth when he said, they had not the evidence of a prac tical man before them. Mr. Fleming was obliged to speak from information which he gained from others of his own business. Though he was a carrier, he was unable to give him (Mr. Gladstone) any reply such as he would con sider necessary. He would allude to another of the parties, of whom he should endeavour to speak gratefully, because he was not present. He was a gentleman whom he recol lected as having distinguished himself in youth by his wonderful rapidity in the process of arriving at arithmetical calculations. He had lost sight of him, and the world had lost sight_of him, until he was brought before them to give evidence on this matter. He really thought, when Mr. Noakes was brought before them, they should have something that they could lay hold of.. Mr. Noakes was a carter of Liverpool : Mr. Noakes did give some information, which was 'entirely and also somewhat amusing. When he was asked a question in reference to the dish wheels, he said he was in favour of the dished wheels, and that in this he was supported by Mr. Brunell. Mr. Brunel made g many others, he had and, certainly, if common sense had a was a clever man, but, right to decide anything, there never was a more erroneous statement than that. What -a highly important piece of information it would be to those who admired that brutal practice, which he deemed it, but which was commonly called the " noble art of self-defence," that a man standing in the shape of an S, or of a shepherd's crook, is in an infinitely stronger position to take the assault or defence of his opponent than if he was in an upright, position. This, no doubt, was the sort of principle that was defended here. Could anything be more absurd than attempt to say that the leaning out of the tower, or anything el! perpendicular N wakes, lough a con- sicierable cart-owner, appeared to him to be very indifferently informed about his own affairs. His abilities and talents of former days, in reference to arithmetic, seemed to have left him altogether. His (Mr. Gladstone's) memory served him perfectly well as to what took place. He asked Mr. Noakes how Many carts and waggons he had ? Mr. Noakes said he did not 1 -- He asked him if he did not know And after some conversation he snow. what property he had said he thought by had about seven or eight-and-twenty. He put some other questions as to how many spring and other vehicles he had; and be answered them in an equally oblivious and confused manner, and Mr. Noakes was the the prime, the great source of information in reference to ' these carts. He did not wonder at Mr. Chaves with holding any observations on this point, as they would be quite unworthy of him. Mr. Noakes, amongst others who were in favour of the dish-wheel—which was one cause of the extra width of these floats—did not employ the dish-wheel himself, only to some extent. He ascertained that Mr. Noakes had got five floats, and three of the five were made as nearly as possible upon the perpendicular principle, so that although Mr. Noakes came before the committee contending for the dish-wheel, he for the most part made use of those constructed on the opposite pnnciple. In the course of his evidence, Mr. Noakes had stated, but he thought he had forgotton it, that the float would not be a cheaper mode of conveyance to the merchant than the waggon, yet, if they Looked to the evidence, they would find that he afterwards contr4dicted that statement. In regard to the want of cranes, this was one cause of the difaottity in. loading LIVERPOOL COTTON MARKET.-APRIL 13 There has been a very quiet market for cotton to-day, but prices continue without change. The sales—including 250 Pernambuco, B,§vd. to 9/d ; 30 Bahia, 71d ; 50 IVlaranham, 8d to 91d ; 200 Egyptian, 8d to 91d ; 300 Surat, 51 to 6d —are reported 5,000 bales, of which 500 are on speculation and for export. LONDON PRODUCE MARKET.-APRIL 13 Sugar : The market has a quiet appearance, and the public sales are again going off without spirit. Coffee : The small public sale went off without showing any material alteration in prices ; middling plantation Ceylon, 75s to 78s ; 500 bags Rio, good to fine ordinary, sold by private contract, 48s to 545. Saltpetre : 1,800 bags chiefly sold in public sale. Re fraction 13k, 37s 6d ; refraction 4 to 51, 40s to 41s, which is is decline upon the late highest point of the market. Tea : The letters from China were delivered this morning, and confirmed the report of short shipments. Very good common congou sold to-day at is 21d. Cotton without alteration. Rice continues in good demand, and full prices have been paid. Rum : Demerara proof sold 2s to 2s ld. LONDON CORN MARKET.-APRIL 13 At this day's market the supplies were moderate ; weather unsettled, but favourable. Wheat : English and foreign steady, at Monday's prices. Floating cargoes off the coast fully is dearer. Flour easily sold, and English not quite so plentiful as of late. Indian corn slow sale, but importers not deterred from demanding long prices. Rye and malt same. Barley : Moderately free sale, at Monday's prices. Peas and beans quite as good. Oats : prices in favour of sellers. BOROUGH HOP MARKET.—APRIL 13. We have no change to notice in the general features of this market. Fine new hops selling at extreme rates, and supply very moderate. LONDON TALLOW MARKET.-:—APRIL 13. Market steady. Spot, 535 . 6d ; all the month, 53s 3d; June alone ‘ s3s 6d to 63s 9d; Oct. to Dec., 54s to 54s 6d. LONDON MINING MARKET.-APRIL 13 The mining market this morning has been rather quiet, but steady. The transactions have been principally confined to shares in Buller and Basset, South Frances, North Downs, Kapunda, Wheal Edward, Cam Brea, and Hingston Downs Mines, which present little change in prices. East Wheal Russell shares are likewise fairly supported. Foreign mining shares are also quiet. Those of the North Rhine Copper Mining Company of South Australia have been dealt in at 10s prem. LONDON MONEY MARKET.—Arnm 13. Consols firm all the - morning, and improved a little in price. They opened at 95 to 951, and were afterwards steady, buyers at 951. Shares also firm, but dealers chiefly engaged with the settlement. Canadian inactive. French inactive but firm. CORK CORN MARKET. —APRIL 13. White wheat, 23s 6d ; barley, 13s to 165 ; oats, 12s to 141 GLASGOW CORN MARKET.—APRIL 13. Good attendance to-day., Wheat moderate demand, at fully prices of this day week. Flour sold freely, prices un changed. Barley (Scotch) held for an advance of 3d to 6d. Oats, peas, and beans firm, and the turn against buyers. GLASGOW IRON MARKET.—Apitn, 13. Market steady. No. 1,51 s 6d to 51s 9d ; warrants, 51s 6d to 61s 9d ; makers' iron, 51s 6d to 611 9d ; No. 3, Ins Od to 613 9d. MONETARY AND COMMERCIAL. LIVERPOOL, Wednesday The Liverpool Cotton Market has been retaark7l quiet to-day, but there has been no change of 1 1 25 The sales amount to 5,00 0 bales , of which 50701. been taken for speculation and e xport. Th f IT O ing is a statement of the quantity of Cotton n° sea NEW ORLEANS.GALVESTON. • . i,460 ; Detained at the Bar. Rober t Mills.. ••• • • ' 42' Barnabas Webb 4,2 60 Brothers .. ..... .•• 163 S. E. Pelligrew . 4,913 Herald ...... ••• • • ' 2,0 S. E. Smith W. Lord, jun. Victory 4,019 West Point Ocean Monarch .. 7 069 - Jenny Lind .••• • ' ' 2 ,981 , Czar ..„-;', Jeseph Fish -,1 Arran Redwood Premier Illustrious Henry Detroit H. M. Hayes Ironsides Rufus Choale Montmoroncy M. Davenport E. D. Peters . • B. S. Kemball Windermere Lambesi , S. Blanchard Geo. West . . . J. J. Boyd 2,898 3,685 3,255 3,470 )0131 0 American -Union. Reformer David Shackaraas.on oullodon Zoboah ..... Calib flaws Kitty Cords Queen ••• • • Empire State sAvikss•ol• 1,3 • Admiral •• • • •• • • 21 61 Rotunda ••••• • • • .• Nie Briddle • • • • • • • 1 96" , Louisiana • • • • • • • • •••--/ 105,913 NEW ORLEANS. Cleared the Bar. Bannockburn William Stetson England Lady Sale 2,030 Star of Peace Arctic Belmont J. P. Harwood Sarah and Emma Marian Manchester Delft Haven 2,832 Euxine Frank Boult 3,934 Jas. Yeo cooLPT° : ` Noatnie Emma • • • • fi W. D. Sen a la w VOIS:. Chancellor • • : r . so , TOTAL A o 41,1 6 a 6,43a5 1 02,, 44- 41,168 The total is On New Orleans Bar Actually at sea .... 105, 913133164' 102,442 ,I Total - The Liverpool Share Market, u nder 020' of a the favourable tenor of the Continendos, nd the improved tone prevailing has shown more firmness to-day and Pr"Le are higher ; but the amount of business done been large. The following were the t r l; . 4; jl. O Caledonian, 80, 804 ' • Great Weste rn, a nd' . shire and Yorkshire, 934-, 931 ; Lonc l° Western, 93-1- 94 931, 94 ; Ditt shares, 1 1-16 ' d ; Manchester, Shefffejaik Cstof coin, 381 ; Midland, 1001- i , 101,. , 1 434.- 11 1111 .1 - Stock 75 ; South-Eastern, 20 5 , Ura ll *- N resf)ici pi Canada, 8, 1 ; Great Western of Canada v;;fter'j", There was rather a large business dell'c o hours, and prices had an upward inovellicaieclp fl 80 rm at the advance. The sales were a ; Great Westerns, 58 ; Lancashire t shires, 934-, 931 ; London and North IlleseP"orii -93*, 94, 94-L 94 ; Manchester and Sile`,",, Midlands, 1011, 1011, 101 1 , an d Sotit',. ; 20 11-16. The final closing quotatilirOle' Blackburn, llk 111 ; Chester an asters 1;1; 63, 63 * ; Caledonian, 80, 801; -P) ' lsl.o ' 5 6.1 ties, 111,,, 11-1 ; East Lancashire: 84,1-eriv Great Northern, 101, 102 ; Do. P'4,oa 'lO Great Western, 57 1 4, 58 ; Lancasiiiroerth'iipssi,: shire, 934--, 93 1 ; London and 93, 94; Do. one-eighth shares, I 1.1 1 11 6 5 ' hi re 6 11.41 1: Manchester, Sheffield, and Dl°, fth ' 1 •0 14 38 Midland Stock, 101, 1011 - , /No. ;. f r e; 561, 57 ; North Sta 9 ff o o , rds 9o hir i e, I ,p ; sala 4s. 411 4 E sx Eastern-Berwick, South n dETa B s7t4 ex i c k , d ; Great Do. New Shares, 51- xd, d; a Gr ell a t i 'lBl ; 1 1) / 13' ,17v52e0; Western r e 2n e o d s oifi Ci c p 6 i ; t n a la ) 1 di iSt:c°,lci,ss,ll"iecc:ol: 11:5r:g; 6 4, ; .Grand- Trunk of Canada, 'c'h'ilres, bardo-Venetian, 1, 1 p Ditto New ''1:1"' le (11Iitif01111 The following were the continuati ons burn, 9d ; Caledonian, 4d. , Easterll,-°t:as;',oo - ; Great Western, 3-16 . d, Yorkshire, 3-16 d, 4d, 4s 41d, 5-16 ' 1 1) - I t c North Western, 4d, 4s 42d, 3-16 d ; a nd 6d, 51d, 5d ; Manchester ' Sheffield, shire, ls 6d, is 9d, is 7Ad;Midland North Eastern-Berwick, id; Sent,' Ll,"' is 14d. is 2d, 1-16 d ; Dutch Rhenisil',6Slls(' Great Western of Canada, 9d ; Do- S es „l,' • of' Great Luxembourg, 4d, 5d ; Grand „ 3d, 4d, 6d; Lombardo-Venetian, 7a. 1,00. - :64' N The weekly Traffic Returns of the" 0 (1/ f orth Western Railway show an iner e ,75 6,5 1,0 16 the total amount being 62,1921., ag a ' n-t rib e the corresponding week of last year. hs` l lo shire and Yorkshire receipts fort he w e ;.,a th e , be i 24,2951., being an increase of 2,440/., chester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire .`"' an increase of 2,1571 The improved tone which Ina rK ,7ll o ;is e ß o o m u p rl e e e y ti e o s n te o r f da t y h , e ecoi(implteindewntiathl ntellwese"julogleil;;;‘. had p a favourable influence upon ti l. t of b lit _Exchange. Nevertheless, the to oi o oi n ne e se osa h l nhs a a s s notnot beenbe en slarge ,marked and t a a h s n : ro ll i ll g il b i tl i ', cti r n is e t e e e ll i „ . t, anticipated. c egrsehTtwhhaes not apadediee.vxgaerneecceeeednoti i , f t: riot: Si i ii,, i t : .:oce . ol: ll.ei.it:rh,i i e ‘ the close t d h eo c i not prevail at the earlier periods of ` l ies 'fb,.,", final closing prices for Public Sep' 954, P' Consols for Money and Account, 9 1 , / 2, 1 ' i but th fie e nr m ince e , per Cents., 94, 9-4; Bank Stock, 2 , 4'" , 0 , ( 10:; chequer Bills, large - and small, 33, 36 P ill. ao tt iti °l 4 _ The London Share Market has been bue?;eco c p it . , m al b l ersof the Exchange hnecugseerle; Preference r engaged in arranging the settlement, all .ptea., Pitt': the business done was somewhat res tl L - foil ° t Ambergate, 51, 61; Caledonian, . s , 0 , day, and finally' cl ee s e k r, 89y , 0,5 1 99, 101 • Eastern Countio-, a o , n to East Lancashire, 91, 92 ; Edinburr,o4l a Dit to 72, 73 ; Great Northern. 1001, 101.1,;ir,,, 87 ; Ditto B, 131, 133 Great ' Brighton, 111, 112 ; • North 58 ; Lancashire and ;Yorkshire, South-Western, 91, 9 1 3 ' Manollaingalregoco _Westerikster, iv field, and Lincolnshire,' 37,1; 38. 1„..;2,, 11 Pr f `' 1 1011 ; North British, 561, 562 ; - 1 -',-, -- 90 ;,. 107, 109 ; North Eastern—Berwiek,,YZ' trot♦ Leeds, 451-, 461; Ditto York, 7q , , I '4V ford, ft-, 41 ; South Etistern, 682 693 " ;(-; e 87-, 87:1,_; Ditto Fours, 1024, ; 03; - r of Canada, 15. 2 .. , 16 Ditto ' Ne w 41' ; .., , A O Trunk of Canada, 8;, 8;• A Cv- i t In the Discount Market the dern t ' ll 'oot c ) c 1 steady, cbeuntt. not A t la th rg e e ß . Bank the active, but the rate for good bills doe s °es • l ion ev ' 4 ap plio t t e l ; gl or e at position is shown to procurr a e c ( : :l 4 /11r tl a ti a tit a i ; Pli el el long-dated bills, owing, apparantlY• L ° , e na llie t tif that that the drain of' g old and the ." effec .more requirements may, ere long, have 01' the market. t the et Consols shewed much firmness throug bou n ced e closed about 1-16th per cent. above the adc li mice established yesterday. Great sup Port is still the extensive purchases effected yestercl_ , „ th•e Oa operators, which are countenanced bY poi g o Continent,reassuring asstatelmveelnits as by rally p la ce 1 b Y a took t .I .no t . r e e r : l than three per cent. which afternoon in the Austrian Funds contin ues a ct 'll'ilii ee nti e r cco t • l o t In the Discount Market the demand the rate for good bills does not exceed 2 . 1 ) today:tie of were no bullion operations at the B ltirgb C3'o o ls £106,000 in Australian gold by the 11" 11 as tite e , e o several P of purchased to-day for the Continent, as ~ :;e r ic. Gof tb ell o f the Z 59,000 by the Asia, from Now -"•iver fo r fie o is Calcutta steamer.—Daily News cieg lb o tt° have alread eaged nearly £400,000 ill s . : 4 ',.ticli, , Evening. on oull ee i s li r COMMERCIAL FAILURE.—The Times aroo, e• pension, at Marseilles, of the firm of Ag o be larE and Co, Their liabilities are understooa t :tell" 9, 9F'41 1 ‘.."1 lay by of ;,,,1 3,955 3,750 3,254 3,400