The Northern Daily Times. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1856-05-15 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL. The adjourned quarterly meeting of the Council was held at eleven o'clock yesterday, in the Town Hall, the Mayor, John Stewart, Esq., in the chair. Before the ordinary business of the Council was entered on, Mr. Robertson Gladstone rose to a point of order. He was prepared to contend that the notice on the summons paper having reference to the sale of the site of the Old Borough Gaol to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company, was informal, and that they could not now proceed to discuss that subject. He based his objection on the 69th clause of the Municipal Reform Act, whi c h d ec l ared that the various subjects to be discussed at the meetings of the Council should be clearly set forth on th e s ummons, He contended that the wording of the summons in this instance was not in conformity with that clause. They here recommended to sell the land, but the price and terms to be obtained were not stated. He did not know whether that iunportant information was left out by order of the finance cototnittee, or through the omission of the deputy town clerk Hughes) , but probably they would receive some informa t'n en the point. (Hear, hen.) If the finance committee thought proper to say that the Council, being a quarterly one, the notice was sufficient, he would say that perhaps they had the law on their side in that respect—(hear, hear,)—but be could not conceive for a moment that where so large a slice of ittla corporate property was about to be disposed of—something ike in point of value to one-eightieth of the real estate of the Cor poration —the finance committee would justify the omission '' , ll such a ground. Besides, immediately in connection with this recommendation was another recommendation for the Purchase of premises in Dale-street. In the latter the price he s given, an d w h y th en was i t om i tted i n the other ? (Hear, al%) There was evidently something wrong in the matter and hf. +l ^ therefore contended that as the notice was contrary to the clause of the Municipal Reform Act, and to their own Btondieg order, the subject to which it bad reference cotild not new be discussed. (Hear, hear.) Th e Town Clerk gave it as his opinion, that even if it were a monthly council the notice would be sufficient. It w as , however, a quarterly meeting, and on such occasions it vas not required that the subjects to be discussed should be specified. Besides, by a standing order of the council, ch of the committees were open for the insp-ee ,very 'member of the council, three clear days before , and if the notice in the summons were not con -Bidered explicit enough, the full proceedings of the committee -q referred to, the books bf ea, Co n of the meeting, 'cir• Hornby said, that if Mr. Gladsone, in bringing the 'question of order before the council, had confined himself to t he simple point—whether or not they would he in order in continuing the discussion on the subject—he (Mr. Hereby) would not have thought it necessary to say one word in the Natter, and would have been content with the answer of the town clerk, which, to his mind, was most satisfactory. But r• Gladstone had insinuated that the finance committee had * awn up th e no ti ce i n t h e way in which it appeared in the council summons, for the purpose of withholding from the council the information which they ought to receive. Now, he b egged to tell Mr. Gladstone, and the members of the council g n erally, that the f inance comm i ttee had pursued the same aulre.ette,in this instance as in all other cases, and that the coin as a body, ITOT any member of it, had given any -.structions to the deputy town clerk, as to the manner in the the notice sh ou ld b e i nserte d . (H ear, hear.) Whether ..„`" notice was sufficiently full or not, l ie was not going to " i _ b lenss ; but h e did mean to say t h at the finance committee " 44 nothing to do with it, and that the insinuation which Mr. `Gladstone appeared anxious to convey, that the finance corn- Nittee had some covert intention of deceiving the council, was 'unjust and unfounded. (Hear, hear.) He, for one, was quite ready to admit that the proposed sale was a very fair subject for the members of the council to discuss, and that the remarks of Mr. William Earle, and some other gentlemen, 'were well deserving of attention. Mr. Earle possessed large Property in the ne i g hb our h oo d , and naturally entertained a gh opinion of its value. Ho could well believe that many gentlemen, both in that room and out of doors, enter tritted that opinion, but what he did object to in the discussion, 'was the manner in which some gentlemen, who objected to the sale, addressed the council. He should observe, that if htnarks in such a strain were continued to be made in the coaneil, they would detract very much not only from the cha c etet. of the council, but from its usefulness to the town. (11 ear, hear.) Did Mr. Gladstone, and the other gentlemen a'Aio made those remarks, imagine that they did not carry a feeling of great irritation into the minds of those persons against whom the remarks were directed ? If such a line of argument was persevered in, he would ask was it possible that they could conduct the proceedings of the council, he would not say with pleasure and satisfaction to themselves as gentle- Men —but could they conduct their proceedings with benefit to the public themselves, if their motives were criticised in such a (15ear, hear.) So far as the finance committee were C oncerned, they were anxious that their proceedings should always be strictly examined ; and that in the disposal of large Property, the council should be satisfied in every particular respecting it before they sanctioned such sale. ([sear, hear.) the instance now before them, if any course could be a dopted w hi c h wou l d meet the wishes of the council, and at e same time the wishes of the burgesses out of doors, he 'Vas sure the finance committee would be most happy to adopt i t. (Hear, hear.) THE DAY RE The M ayor sa i d he had been waited OlClN upon G. by a deputation of gentlemen, who desired to know wheth er it was i nten d e d to M're any p u bli c demonstrat i on i n L i verpool on the 29th of yt The gentlemen were d e si r o us th a t t h at d ay should be " apart as a h o lid ay; an d among ot h er reasons which they as .apart was, that on that day the custom-house would be closed, and the discharge of ships, and the work on the quay, gene 11Y, would be suspended. The deputation consisted of Mr. iv R. Jeffery, Mr. Rad!ey, M r . F orm b y, M r. D ismore, and r. P lastinc, The opinion of the d e p u t at i on was , t h at some - "ing should be done in Liverpool on the 29th of May, being d aY set ap ar t t h roug h out the kingdom for s ome ki n d o f pu bli c en,o nstration. In connection with that subject he should h te, that h e b a d t h at morn i ng received a letter from k Lord M ayor o f L on d on, i n which his lordship desired to °ll ' what was intended to h e d one h ere, and re an immediate answer. H e , th ere f ore, t h oug h t i t thity to bring the matter before th e C ounc il. H e s h ou l d " i 1 4 Y that the deputation themselv es d e p recate d anyt hi ng l i ke an k i ll the or fireworks, or any expensive d emonstrat i on o f i r , at , S ort- (Hear, hear.) It wa s s ugges t e d t h at t h e m ili tary tne town, cons i st i ng o f t h e pens i oners and the Lancashire lart i llery, s h ou ld ma k e some display, and he had every reason 0 believe that the officers in command would lend all the aid tli•rrpower. The deput a ti on p ropose d to enter i nto a sub ""r'Ptinn, but ho feared that. p ro j ec t wou ld not b e very teceessful. h Mr . i R. Gladstone thou g ht if an y f un d s were ra i se d t h ey ilzl be applied to some practical ohket of sustantial good, "eh as the relief of some of the widows and o b rphans of the to 41 -r- Hornby suggested that a committee should be appointed "•eperate with the committee out of doors, and that the should vote a small sum of money—nothing like what ,; aB 'Pent up on a f ormer occas i on, which they all agreed was jet)? u nsatisfactorily spent—but something like .e4OO or £5OO, b e devot e d to some purpose of general national amusement at t he control of the c o mmitt ee . 1, 43 41 r. Kitchen hoped the organ in St. George's Hall would Made available. Jeffreys objected to any of the public money being spent. ' w ir• Woodruff concurred in Mr. Hornby's views. tkr. Banner hoped the council's resolution would be accom nied by a recommendation, that all persons wbo employed c k ing men should p a y th em th e i r wages on that day. hi Mr. And Earle said, in order to judge properly, they ought to in other parson's shoes. It was very easy for persons (V° had no wor k men emp l oyed to recommend such a thing. al*, hear.) It w a s eas y t o b e h umane i n t h at way, b ut l et ei !,„. tanner s t an d i n th e s h oes o f some o f t h ose who had four 1 4 , i 've hundred persons in their employment, and then say C he would lika to pay them on th a t d a y. (H ear , an d at tghter.) i . tann er : Q u i te we ll . Zr• Earle : N ot you, indeed. (Laughter.) theulr. Banntun er : Quite w e ll. I s h ou ld b e d e li g h te d to h ave ,2ppority. th f : l r• Sheil strongly opposed the idea of a general holiday, on A enea s that it would only encourage the working classes to taii - . 4 ess, and lead them to spend the money which their families result' t afterwards want. He pointed, also, to the many accidents, last at least in one instance in death, which attended the 4general rejoicing in Liverpool, and urged that such occur cea "heuld be considered a sufficient warning, and that the . e „! 8 ef the peo ple we re of greater importance than their n • ""Yrne nconcurred in the remarks of Mr. Earle, and inflict ena red th a t t h e council had no right to a penalty upon " e re, and no r i g h t to encourage t h e wor ki ng c l asses to b e rt i and caus e the distress of their families. an 1 1 ,, in _ r „. • Alderman Parker objected to the council giving y M I , or taki ng any i nitiative step. r. Robinson exrressed a similar opinion. an r. Alderman Dover argued in favour of a general rejoicing, b e _towed that the council recommend the 29th of May to Air ' rved as a general holiday. kr. Wood • ffseconded the motion. r in up,• Clint contended that the general effects of a holiday n .the working c l asses were mos t d emoral i sing. ~b bl ct . Aik en thought the occasion too solemn for any foolish b een te n", and th a t th e prayers o f t h an k sg i ving which had for tNi uttered i n every church, for the restoration of peace, ii e l ed the mo s t fi tt i ng celebration of it. (Hear, hear.) he r r • Rod son declared that any such public exhibitions as t o „ oe tl ai_ sua o ly got up, were unworthy of a set of schoolboys, no t t a pave corporatin. 4 vo ted to h id Johnson remarked th a t L on d on cou ld a ff or d t o ce l e b rate () aY it inasmuch as i t had had a large sum of public money ~ _kilr r• Charles T urner moved, as an amendment, that the ap be requested to communicate with the mayors of London 4 I. Mancheste r , an d to act as those cities intended to do. to 'lt ecnne M. Br analey-Moore, M.P., t h ought the council ought „ I„ to some decision of its own, without being 1;01; Manch es t er. He expressed himself favourably to a 77 1 . 1 35 and was of opinion that the couide a 0,,1 am usement for th e pu bli c, and at ncil m the same time prov make rh o council e r £B,OOO f or t h e charities of Liverpool. 37 icionncil then di v id e d , when the amendment was lost by Mr. Alderman Parker moved a second amendment, to the effect, that the question be left to the town, and that the council express no opinion. This amendment Was lost by 26 to 22. Mr. Dover's motion was then put, and carried, by 26 to 23. Mr. Dover then proposed that the council place the sum of £5OO at the disposal of the Mayor for the purpose, and that a committee, consisting of the chairman 'Of committees, the mayor, and the mover of the resolution, be appointed to co operate with the committee outside. The Motion was carried by 29 to 20. THE OLD BOROUGH GAOL PROPERTY. The debate on this question was resumed. A memorial from the Clarendon-rooms meeting, ono from the north-end meeting, and one crom the committee of the libaral association of Abercromby ward, were read. The memorials were all against the proposed sale of the property, Without, at least, further time for consideration. Mr. A. C. Stewart asked if Mr. Ilornby had any other communication to make to the council on the part of the wrong ? finance committee ? Mr. Hornby replied that he teas not instructed by the finance committee to Make any communication whatever, but he was ready to accede to any such arrangement as would meet With the approbation of the majority. Mr. Robinson asked how soon could the land be given up to the company, in the event of the recommendation being carried out ? He understood that twelve months was to bo allowed for the removal of the building materials there. (Hear, hear.) If that were the case he did not see the necessity for the haste with which the matter was being pushed forward. (Hear, hear.) The Mayor replied that a small portion of the land was in the occupation of a yearly tenant as a stone and flag yard, and he believed that absolute possession of the land could not be given until February next. Mr. A. C. Stewart said, that if the recommendation were now and without turther discussion postponed, he would be glad or it, but if it were not, he should move an amendment to the effect that the price at which it was proposed to sell the land in question was under its value—that it had never been offered to the public on the same terms as it was offered to the company, and that as it would be necessary for the im provement of the town, the matter be referred back to the committee for further consideration. Mr. Picten said that having some knowledge of the value of land in the neighbourhood in question, he perhaps would be permitted to offer a few remarks on the subject before them. He could well understand the feelings of Mr. Hornby and the members of the finance committee in respect of the strong remarks that had been made made impugning their honour in the transaction. Their feelings were such as every honour able gentleman would experience under such circumstances. With regard to the price offered for the land, he was of opinion, from his experience in the purchase of land in the neighbourhood, that it was a very ample one, and quite as great a price as they were likely to obtain for the land as a whole. (Hear, hear.) But after the very strong feeling that had been manifested out of doors, and looking at the question es it presented itself with regard to future improvements, he thought it would be wise, and that it would come with a peculiar grace from Mr. Hornby, as chairman of the finance committee, if the recommendation for the present were alto gether withdrawn from the consideraaion of the council. (Hear.) If the land were at all valuable to the company, it would be no less valuable for their purposes at a future time, and while the delay would do them no injury, it would give the council and the public time for a full consideration of the subject, and for an opinion generally to be expressed as to what improvements in that locality it would be possible to carry out. (Hear, hear). After the feeling of confidence expressed in the finance committee, by the rejection of the several amendments, at the last day's meeting, he thought they would he actingvery gracefully by at once withdrawing the recommendation for the present, and he begged therefore to move a resolution to that effect. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Hereby replied that, seeing the strong feeling on this subject, and the great difference of opinion in regard to it, he, as a member of the committee, would at once accede to the motion of Mr. Picton, and withdraw the recommendation. He trusted that the other members of the committee would concur in that course. Mr. M`Guflie seconded Mr. Picton's amendment. Mr. A. C. Stewart said that he could see no objection to it, and would not therefore press his motion. . Mr. Robertson Gladstone observed that,naftet the serious charges and insinuations thrown out by sorriel'or.tifie preceding speakers, which were evidently intended for him, he would claim his right of reply, and would enter under any circum stances fully into the subject. Mr. Holt remarked that Mr. Picton's motion was in direct opposition to his opinion. He declared that the price offered for the land was an ample and sufficient one, and yet by his motion he would prevent so fair a sale from being completed. He would ask, was it likely that the land could be sold in one lot otherwise? They wanted to get the best price they could for it, and he was advised that the one offered was an ample one. (Hear, hear.) He looked at the question simply as a matter of £ s. d, and having regard to the interest of the corporation estate, which he was sent into the council to manage, lie was strongly impressed with the conviction that they had a very fair offer them before for the land. (Hear, hear.) If it was their intention to sell the land,why then should it be postponed ? He had experience himself of the danger of delay iu the price of land, and having a fair offer for their property before them, ho did not see why they should encounter the accidents involved in a long postponement. If the property were his own personally, he would at once dispose of it on the terms proposed, particularly if the negociation had gone as far as in the present instance ; and he did not think that the public would require from them, as a public body, a sharper and more exacting policy than that which should cha racterise the dealings between man and man. (Hear, hear.) He was prepared to support the recommendation for the sale; but, at the same time, seeing the feeling out of doors, he would be unwilling to oppose Mr. Picton's amendment. He should again repeat, however, that his judgment did not go along with the wisdom of postponing the sale. Mr. Alderman Cooper asked if Mr. Holt had any shares in any of the interested lines of railway? Mr. Holt replied that he hold shares in tho Liverpool and Southport line, but that it bad been decided on the last day that such shareholders were entitled to vote. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman Cooper demanded that the opinion of the town clerk should be given in the matter. The Southport line was part and parcel of the Lancashire and Yorkshire company, and that they should remember that " what was good for the goose was good for the gander." Mr. W. Earle : Indeed, sir, there aro a good many geese here. (Laughter.) The Town Clerk replied, that if the statement of facts sub mitted to him in the matter were correct, the shareholders of the Southport line had no pecuniary interest in the transaction, a guaranteed dividend being simply received by them, no matter how the money was earned. They were, therefore, legally entitled to speak and vote in the matter. Mr. Woodruff said that if the law did not prevent them from voting, delicacy should. Mr. Hodson differed altogether with the town-clerk, and Contended that the Southport shareholders could not vote. Mr. W. Earle : Is our time to bo taken up, Mr. Mayor, by amateur lawyers. (Laughter). Mr. Hodson may know something about physic; but what does he know about law? (Laughter). Mr. Hodson answered that he should give any opinion he pleased in defiance of Mr. Earle, and observed that that gentle man should not be so personal. Mr. Alderman S. Holine : I hope it will teach Mr. Hodson to be a little more considerate for others. Mr. Hodson : I have received as much personality from Mr. S. Holm° as from any member in this council, and I will retort on every occasion: Mr. S. Holm° : Two can play at that. Mr. Robertson Gladstone : Mr. Mayor, I quite agree with those who are of opinion that the matter at issue, strictly speaking, is confined (with regard to the recommendation of the finance committee to sell the Site of the borough gaol to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company) to the insufficiency and inadequacy of tho price. Now, it would seem that there are some little differences of opinion, even among some of the members of the finance committee themselves, as to what the price really is. One member of the committee tells us that the price is £3 2s. 6d., taking it at 25 years' purchase, the practice adopted in Manchester—l should say a very bad practice to adopt in Liverpool, so far as property is concerned near the docks, because that property is worth very much more than 25 years', purchase. The chairman of the finance committee has adopted £2 15s. as the basis on which the negotiations were conducted. He has told us that 2s. 6d. is 4,1 per cent, upon £2 los. Now, I should like to know whether £2 15s. was the price which the railway company adopted as their basis of calculation when they agreed to purchase the property. Because, sir, my own impression is that they did not—that they took the sum of 2s 6d as an interest of five per cent., on a principal sum of £2 103, as the price per square yard. Mr. Hornby : They did nothing of tho kind. Mr. Gladstone: Now, sir, if I am correct in the views I have ventured to express, I a hall be prepared to show you what an anomalous position this whole matter is placed in. Mr. Hornby : Mr. Mayor, I beg to state that Mr. Gladstone is incorrect in his supposition altogether. (Hoar, hear.) The price agreed upon, originally, was £2 153 per square yard, and it was afterwards changed, at our request, at the suggestion of the finance committee itself. Mr. Gladstone : Is that not the price now ? The Mayor : The company offered to pay '£2 15s per yard. Mr. Alderman Cooper : Cash payment. Mr. Gladstone : Was it to be a cash payment ? The Mayor : The price was to be paid in seven years, giving interest. Mr. Gladstone : That is no cash payment. From your high position and experience, one would have expected a very different description of a cash purchase. The Mayor : Oh, I did not say it was a cash purchase. Mr. Gladstone : Now, sir, I am going to show the anoma lous position in which the whole matter is. The Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company have agreed to give 2s 6d per square yard, which by my calculations, which perhaps arc not very abstruse, I estimate as 5 per cent upon £2 10s. The chairman of the finance committee based his calculations upon £2 15s, and he states that 2s 6d is 4§ per cent upon £2 15s. Now, sir, I differ with the chairman of the finance committee ME NORTHERN TI 719.....,L1V POI L 9 THURSDAY, MAY 16,1856. per cent, according to the mode in which I calculated it, as the interest upon £2 15s for twelve months, would amount 2s 51d, Therefore, positively, we are in this position, that we are receiving, according to this calculation, more than we are entitled to from the railway company. We are going to got 2s 6d, being one halfpenny more than we ask, or are entitled to. But why blink the matter ? Let us have the truths out at once, that the pi ice is £2 lOs per square yard. Mr. ITornby : I repeat, sir, that that is not the case. Mr. Gladstone : Do I understand that my calculations are I should b 3 very glad to see aay disciple of Cocker get up and dispute thorn. Mr. Horn by : According to your own estimate, your calcu lation is as nearly correct as possible. I ►nerely sta'ed that 4.1 per cent. was as near 2s 6d, or £ 15s, as possible, in round numbers. Mr. Gladstone : Yes, in round numbers; but in parting with large property of this kind, smnething like an eightieth of the real estate of the corporation of Liverpool, we should have something more than round numbers. Now, sir, I understand the proposal to be, that the Lancashire and York shire Railway Company should pay 2s 6J, being 44 der cent., or £2 lsr. I contend, then, that we have no right to calculate interest at 44 per cent. The dock estate, taking money on mortgage, last week, had only between £2,000 and £3,000 offered, at 41 per cent. There were no tenders for the renewal of bonds, and the same circumstance occurred the previous week. Nor do I believe that, in the present state of the money market, the dock estate, with its excellent security, could command any large sum of money much under five per cent: Now, if that is the case, then I contend wo should require the rate of interest to be carried out in calculating the price which the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company ought to pay. An allusion has been made to the surveyor's report. I mean no disrespect whatever towards the surveyor, but I confess that I do not think his report is worth the piper it is written upon. His calculations appear to me to be full of inaccuracies. £2 5s for the back land, whilst the railway company, still further hack, have been paying £4 and £5! £4 10s for the front ! Why, sir, if he had said £8 or £lO for the front, it would have been much more to the mark—and I shall be prepared to prove what I said, and other gentlemen are hero to speak with details corroborative of it. Now, sir, Ido not'know any cir cumstance more painful than when one feels that he has a friend, one ready to support you in the cause you believe in your conscience to be right, to see him turn aside—to feel that one of the props upon which you were supported is giving way, sinking in the foundations. lam very sorry to say I did not expect from Mr. George Holt—l did not, indeed, think that we should have had a deserter from our cause in his person. Why, sir, Mr. George Holt informed me himself that the land opposite the borough gaol, where, as I understand, he has property, ono or two warehouses or more, he himself, twelve or fifteen years ago, bought at £4 per square yard. Now, sir, the land at the corner of Great Howard-street and Dundee street consists, for the most part, of an inclined plain, or declivity, on which vehicles, drawing up to the warehouses to load and unload, must, of necessity, stand with considerable inconvenience, if not risk and danger. My attention was directed to that fact, and I remarked upon it to one Or two friends, who were very competent to give an opinion. I said " I have been frequently over the site of the borough gaol—it is a dead flat, and it appears to me that the east side of Great Howard-street must, in that particular locality, be much more valuable than the west." I added that, in my estimate, the !difference would, certainly, not be less than lOs per square yard. I was told I should be much nearer to the mark if I estimated it at 30s. That was the opinion given to me by a most practical man. Now, sir, taking this matter on the ground which the sale has been based upon, that of a perpetual lease. I am ready to give you the name of a gentleman whose opinion I am about to read on that question. It is, perhaps, not very pleasant, as there are several architects and surveyors in this room, to put parties into hostile array with one another on matters of opinion, but I shall, nevertheless, read the opinion addressed to me. Speaking of the site of the old borough gaol, the writer says, " I am satisfied that if the land were lotted out, and offered. to the public on a perpetual lease, the corporation would realise certainly not less than £6 per superficial yard for 'it." (Rear, hear.) Now, that is the opinion of a practical architect and surveyor of this town, for whom I entertain a high respect. hire been uttered by him if he had. He littte knovis what the past could tell, if it could speak, of how they could make their arrangements. Ido not find fault with their making the best bargain they could, but generally they begi❑ by offering about one half, having juries and arbitrators, and then giving half as much again as they offered. Gentlemen are in this room who can correct me if I am in error oa that point. Now, sir, I thought we were given to understand, at least four years since, in this Council, that the money td he obtained by the sale of the site of the old gaol, was to he applied to the cost of the new one tet - Mr. Alderman Parker : I think Mr. Gladstone ought to name him. towards that? Why had we not notice of it ? Ther statement made in this council--there was an understanding which every man with a memory, which can treasure up any thing at all, should recollect—that the site of the old borough gaol was to be sold, in order to na'y us in cash, so far as possible, for the cost of the new gaol at Walton; (Hear, hear.) That stands recorded on your books. It has been• stated here, if not by the chairman of the finance committee, by other parties —and I rather think something like what I have mentioned has been put forward by him, on more than one occasion, too. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, the chairman of the finance com mittee seemed to doubt what, at the moment, I believe he considered an extraordinary statement on my part in regard to the intrinsic value which would be added to the property of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company by this pnr , Chase. I have consulted one or two parties interested in the company since, arid, looking at the immense advantages which no amount of compensation could calculate, I am told I made a statement—such as t should have desired—completely within the hounds of moderation and of truth. Now, sir, I think I have pretty well, so far as I have power and means to do so, exhausted the vari ous arguments which have occurred to me—hut I must not take a farewell of the subject without a few parting words with my friend the chairman of the finance committee. Mr. Mayor, I admit that I speak strongly, and firmly, and, I hope, in a spirit of honeet indignation. Beyond timt, I deny that I ever went, and I appeal to any member of the council' to say whether any personal remarks fell from me on that occa sion. I felt, as I feel now, that the finance committee had committed a great error:l felt that they had consented to accept terms for a vain: hle property inadequate to the occasion, and having no direct reference to the value of the property itself. Was Ito be silent, was I to succumb, because the chairman of the finance committee dislikes the spirit and principle of a divided empire—because lie has for years past enjoyed an uninterrupted sway of popularity ? Was Ito be silent—were my conscientious scruples to be smothered, be cause I did not fait down and worship the golden idol which was set before me? Sir, they know little of me who would try to catch me in such a trap. And, indeed, sir, I did not expect that reproof from Mr. Hornhy. There are circum stances which should have led me to hope for different treat ment at his hands. He has now, however, spoke what he thought, and so far I give him credit for it, but I tell him to his face, I defy any one who heard me to get up and say that by word or deed I ought to be considered as having offended. as having transgressed the rules of debate, or the betinds of moderation. Shall I remind the chairman of the finance committee of two or three little inconsistencies of his? He set out by stating that there was nothing he more approved of— I am not giving his exact words, but the substance—than the dissection, the ample and full consideration of all the proceed ings of the finance committee. (Hear, hear.) But, then, when we get a firm grip of them, and begin to pull them about and torture them, and see what they are worth, whether they will stand this test of examination or noti he asks, why we do not get up and move that a new finance committee be appointed. That is the consistency of the chairman of the finance committee! Then again he asked me a question—and I suppose he thought it was a justifiable question—whether I would undertake to guarantee, that if the bargain was not concluded, I would be responsible for the difference, if the land sold for less. But when it came to a question of respon sibility, in case the bargain were allowed to go on, then he proposed that he should not be held responsible. . . Mr. Hornby : I beg leave to say that Mr. Gladstone is misrepresenting me altogether. Mr. Gladstone : I am sure I shall be most happy to hear your own explanation. . Mr. Hornby : I shall be happy to explain ; but I beg you will not put the remarks I make in a light in which they ought not to be put. Mr. Gladstone : Mr. Cunningham—a name of very high respectability. To state how many communications I have received upon the subject, or to undettake to mention to the council how many persons have addressed me, thanking me, (perhaps, more than I deserved, for I was only in the discharge of my duty), for the opposition I offered to the proposal, would be wearisome, almost for the council to listen to. Amongst other commuuications, there is one frotß a gentleman, who tells me that he bought from 2,000 to 3,000 yards of land in Great and Little lloward streets in 1812, at 3.5 s per square yard, on a seventy five years lease, which he sold ten years ago at £5 to £5 lOs per square yard. That gentleman is Mr. Waring, of 36, Chapel walks. Other gentlemen can give you various prices of bona fide sales in that particular locality. I alluded, last Wednesday, to a member of the council who is building two more houses further to the north or thereabouts, not with a frontage to (lief , t Howard stree' ' but altogether back land, which ho is buying from Mr, John Shaw Leigh, as has been represented to me— Mr. Gladstone : I hope you will correct me afterwards,when you have an opportunity of speaking. Now, sir, I shall listen to any speaker who follows me, to see if he can lay at my door any dereliction of duty, any improper deviation from the path dt rectitude, in my remarks upon the subject. As I have said I felt, and felt strongly, because the question does not simply rest on our persons in its effects. There are many men who, like myself, have a large stake in the town, and who see what is going forward in London, and if ever I felt anxious it is now, that there should be a judicious expenditure, a wise economy, a correct care exhibited for preserving our funds, and applying them to such purposes as are most desirable. (near, bear.) I felt all this, independently of all the other circum stances I have mentioned. And yet I was to be found fault with, because I thought proper to express my views on the subject. Now, sir, there aro gentlemen hero who, I lisps, will follow me, and state whether or not I am correct in saying that the feeling of the town is with those who oppose the recommendation on the r*rt of the finance committee. If that be so, then I ask whether the minority were not perfectly justified in attempting to enforce their views, in the best way they could, consistent with what was legitimate and right ? (near, hear.) I ask if we were not justified— and I ask even the chairman of the finance committee, who has thought proper to select me, and to shoot some of his darts at me pesonally, whether he is now prepared to justify or to adhere to that expression which he made use of upon the occasion of our last meeting ; when we, endeavour ing as honest men—hat let us beware—let us use no boast of honesty —if a man is not honest he has no business here, and no right to talk ; but I say, acting for the best, and discharg ing our duty to the utmost of the ability we possess, were met with the charge of factions opposition ? I ask'whether that was language strictly applicable to the occasion, and whether we merited that charge. Mr. Alderman Dover: I rise to a point of order. I under stand that the statement Mr. Gladstone made, and to which he now again alludes, has reference to me, I give it my most positive denial. The sum lam paying is not half two shillings and sixpence. Mr. Gladstone : Then I must admit, Mr. Mayor, that my information was incorrect. Mr. Godfrey: It was not incorrect. (Oh !oh !) Mr. Dover : It is exceedingly unpleasant that private affairs should be thus dragged into a public discussion, (Elear, hear.) I feel now that my honour is at stake. The price I am paying is 275. 6d. per square yard at 4.1 per cont. Mr. Godfrey : Mr. Mayor— The Mayor : Mr. Godfrey I cannot now hear you. Mr. Gladstone : Mr. Godfrey was the gentleman wl , o gave me the information, and ho is hero to speak for himself. Now, sir, let me call attention to another statement. It has been stated that the site of the borough gaol covers so considerable an extent of land that from its very extent it would bo a matter of great difficulty to meet with a customer for it. Now, sir, I would just call your attention to a purchase made by the dock com mittee two years ago, which, as well as I can measure it—and gentlemen are here who can correct me if I am in error—was something like one and a half mile distant from the Liverpool Exchange. The dock committee purchasel from Mr. John Shaw Leigh 48,800 square yards of land at 32s 6d. Thi s price was confirmed by the conned on reading the proceedings of the dock committee. Now, if that was a fair price, one and a half mile distant from the Exchange, I should like to know whether £2 10s, or, on the showing of the chairman of the finance committee, £2 15s is a fair price for the site of the borough gaol ? Mr. Hornby : I should like to know what you mean by saying .£2 lOs or £2 15s ? Mr. Gladstone : 10s is my own calculation. Mr. Hornby : Yes, but you don't deny my statement ? Mr, Gladstone : Not at all. Who doubts the statement of the chairman of the finance committee? Mr. llornby : I think you did. (Hear; hear.) Mr. Gladstone : Was that language to use—was that a correct and honourable attack to make upon us, who were doing our best for others ? Now, sir, I have concluded the remarks I have to offer, and I hope, sir, that the next time the chaii - man of the finance committee attempts to find fault with my conduct—and it is, like that of all o hers —open to criticism that it will be done iu a better spirit, and ceriainlY not accom panied by any such terms and expressions as those to which I have directed your attention. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Godfrey said that as the authority for some of the state. ments which Mr. Gladstone had made, ho would simply state how the information had come to his knowledge. A few weeks since he happened to meet Mr. Dover, and, in the course of the conversation, that gentleman mentioned that he was build ing some warehouses at the north end—that he had a piece of land to spare, and that if he (AL-. Godfrey) knew a friend who had £2,000 or £3,000 to lay out, ho would guarantee him a per centage. Ho asked him how he would let the land, and Mr. Dover replied, on a perpetual lease at 2s 6d the square yard, observing that Mr. John Shaw Leigh now let his land at 2s 61 the square yard; and from that he had been led to sup pose that that was what Mr. Dover himself had given for it. Mr. Dover: You simply misunderstood me. Mr. Godfrey continued : He was surprised to bear Mr. Picton say that he considered the price offered as very ample, for he was told that some time since Mr. Picton was employed as a surveyor to value a piece l'of land in Love-lane, known as Pickup's mill ; he valued it at £3 15s. the square yard without compensation. The jury awarded £3 I Is. for it. Again, in the same locality, the Mayor and Mr. S. Holme valued some land for the railway company at £2 10s. the square yard, but the jury awarded £5. The Mayor : So far as I am concerned you are quite mis taken. I had nothing whatever to do with it. (Laughter) I would suggest, however, that this line of argument is not rele vant, unless you are going to discuss every question connected with each plot of land. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Godfrey continued : He received his information in the matter from a gentleman who was employed by the trustees of the property. Ho could give many instances where large sums of money had been paid for land in the neighbourhood of the gaol, but he would go to the site itself, and mention a few facts in connection with it. In 1819 the Lancashire and Yorkshire Company paid to the council, for 782 square yards of this back land, four guineas the square yard. (Hear, hear.) Again, in 1847, the London and .North Western Railway Company purchased from them 18,210 square yards, in the same locality, and paid them £3 5s the square yard for it ; and if that company paid them that price for a part of the land, why should they now sell the best portion of the land to the Lancashire and Yorkshire company for the paltry sum of £2 15s the square yard? (Hear, hear.) He had no hesitation in saying that the land was now worth the square yard, or a rental of ss, and that the difference between that price and the terms now offered, if the sale wero pressed, would be a loss to the corporation of £30,000. (Hear, hear.) As representatives of the public, they would he guilty of gross mismanagement, if they allowed such a sum to be lost to the corporate estate; and he did not see h ow th ose gentlemen, w h o a d voca t e d th e sale, could justify their conduct to their constituencies next November. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Picton observed that, though he was not there to account for any of his professional acts, he was still prepared to reconcile the opinion he had given that day, with those which he might have expressed in other cases. Mr. Alderman. S. Holme sail : I should have been content, sir, that this subject should have been referred back for consi deration in iilence, if it had not been so entirely reopened, and as remarks have been made by Mr. Gladstone, in all the agony o impassioned eloquence, which must go forth to the public, I think it is only right that I should have the opportunity, as deputy-chairman of the finance committee, of making a few remarks in reply, so that the bane and antidote may go together. Sir, 1 will not, at any time, shrink from the discussion of this subject, either as a matter of expediency, or as a matter of policy, or, upon the merits of the resolution ; nor will I be deterred by any declarnatiorr whatever from the point that is at issue before this council. I agree with Mr. Herlihy, that it is the duty of the council to look narrowly at the proceedings of all its committees ; it is the very object for which we aro sum xoned ; but when the hue and cry is raised—when a tone and manner are assumed which, I confess, have caused to me irrepressible pain—when motives are imputed, and criticism itself degenerates into a species of personality, then, I say, that the argument ceases to I be just, and should be deprecated by every gentlemanly mind. Mr. Hornby: £2 15s was the original price. Mr. Gladstone: Yes; but I put it into illy own figures. Upon the principle 1 havo laid down, with regard to distance, I hold that this site is worth £4 or £4 10s. I contend that, apart from that consideration, the price is inadequate ; that the terms aro novel, in their character, to the council ; that the council has always spurned the idea of parting with the freeholds which they have upon perpetual lease. I contend that the price which I will take, as Mr. Hornby seems so very sensitive upon the subject, at £2 15s, is not a sufficient con sideration for the value of the land ; that it includes nothing for the freehold, and, moreover, nothing whatever for the accommodation granted for the inability, on the pert of the railway company, to pay cash for the purchase. I should have liked that the finance committee would have come forward with some sort of date—something to prove that in Great Howard-street, and the immediate locality. £2 15s is a just, fair, and reasonable price for such a property is the site of the old borough gaol. I ask if they have brought forward one single statement sliming members of the council, not practically acquainted with the value of land, that £2 153 is the value of that site ? Then, again, sir, we were told, on a previous occasion, that this property had been offered already at public auction, and that at the same time various other lots were offered—that these lots were disposed of, but not the site of the borough gaol. Why, sir, it would seem almost as if the site of the borough gaol was put up without any really determined intention of selling it. With money at 8, 10, and 12 per cent, to go and put up 19,900 square yards of land, expecting that some stray traveller would pop into the auction room, and pull out a £50,000 or £60,000 note from his pocket to pay for that lot of land—was that a reasonable expectation ? Why, sir, the land should have been divided into lots. The old woman's story, about out having to wait so many years until it would all be sold, might satisfy us that there is a desire among certain parties holding warehouses to get rid of that site. It is in the market, and stands ghastly staring befo re th e i r e y e s. They know very well that if warehouses were erecZed upon such a site woe be to their property. (Hear, hear). Some of the north end gentlemen think there is a great possibility that the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway will concede what some parties very much approve of—a market at the north end. Now, whether there is to be a market at tho north end or not is out of the question now—l de not know; but that it is a matter very well entitled to consideration. Theiefore, they havo refused to come forward and express what, otherwise, they would do—their disappeoval of this sale. We know very well, at least I do, from those I have met out of doors, that the town is entirely opposed to the confirmation of this disposal of the site of the boroughs gaol. Several wards have expressed their opinion—l believe, if time had permitted, every ward in the town would have sent in its views upon this 'matter. to the town council. We have been told that Mr. James Holme, to whom I allude with perfect good feeling, for he has refrained from taking any part in the debate, and therefore it is not fair to say anything of him to which he cannot reply—but I just wish to mention that we have been told by the chairman of the finance committee that Mr. James Holme proposed to withdraw the offer. (Hear, hear.) The chairman of the finance committee has not had quite as much experi , mee of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company as ether people. That sentiment would never I . (ltear, heir.) The committee have been charged with ED i Vefil Mr. Robertson Gladstone : I imputed no motive, nor do I make any charge. Mr. Alderman S. Holme : I beg pardon, motives have been imputed by others. Ir. Gladstone Mr. Hohne Mr, Hodsol Hdlme Name them ? Mr. Hodson - did so, 1 deny it, I must repeat tha It the finance committe Its said came to pull them about and torture them" (measing the committee) ". then the cry was, why not . dismiss us." Sir, •is that language that a gentleman of Mr. Gladstone's high position should use to gentlemen—his equals in position, his. equals in respectability, his equals in independence ; and I say that language, such as that used in this council to_day, ought to be deprecated by all gentlemen of right feeling here, as it will be deprecated out of doors when read by like gentlemen. I riso to order (Cries of order Mr. It. Gladstone order, and chair, chair.) Mr. Holrne : I will not he interrupted Mr. Gladstone : I call on the mayor to say whether in m address I was guilty of any lat (Hear, hear.) Mr: Holmo continued : There is nothing easier than to find fan] —any man can do so—anyrnau can throw dirt on the finest dres which the skill of the weaver can manufacture; but tit( man who can find fault is unfit to be a legislator. (Rear hear.) I say, again, that there can be nothing easier. than for gentlemen who do not take the trouble to mak( - selves acquainted any subject, to come in uage which was out of order council and find fault'vvit ae labo them- although the current rate at the present time was higher. He pointed out that the 41 per cent was a calculation for a perpetuity, and therelve a fair average rate. He expressed his regret that on the last day a threat should have been held out by Mr. Gladstone to deter the finance committee from proceeding further. He accused Mr. Gladstone of inconsistency in using such a threat, remind ing the council with what strenuous earnestness Mr. Gladstone had, upon a recent occasion, in allusion to the arlestion of town dues, denounced the centralising policy which would take from local municipalities the control of their own affairs, and place them under the power of a I London ward. Oz that occasion he reminded the meet ) fact, that Mr. Gladstone demanded whether the government, by the course they were pursuing, intended to de•ive Liverpool to take refuge under the star-spangled banner of America. He charged Mr. Gladstone, there fore, with serious inconsistency in now threatening an appeal to that very central power whose encroachments he had so frequently and so earnestly denounced. Mr. Tobin defended Mr. James Holme, and contended that that gentleman should have been permitted at least to defend himself from the imputations which had been cast upon him, if not to take part in the debate upon the actual question at issue. Mr. A. C. Stewart, in an eloquent address, opposed the recommendation of the finance committee. He dwelt strongly upon the necessity of retaining at least a portion of the property for the carrying out of town improvements, which if once the site passed wholly from the hands of the council could never be effected, n less by purchasing back at a far higher price the very land they had sold. He also urged that the price offered was not a sufficient amount, and laid much stress upon the fact that when the ground had been cleared it would have four fronts. In ae bancas that warehous re and Y orkshire Railway, he contended s built on that land in close proximity to be most valuable. For these and several other reasons which he explained at considerable length, he opposed the wile under the present circumstances. Mr. Alderman Bennett, while he hoped to see the railway company get possession of portions of the land, objected to the council giving up the power of making a road through it. Finally, Mr. Hornby eaid he, as an individual member of the finance committee, should not oppose Mr. Picton's amendment. the lin Mr. Tobin made a similar statement. The amendment accordingly passed without a divisi The next portion of the finance committee':, was a recommendation to purchase land and pr( adjoining the old gas works in Dale-street, for the £2,200. Toceedings recommendation bo ;essary for the cow- Mr. liornby proposed that t adopted, stating that the land wa pletion of the new bridewell. Mr. S-unuel Hulme said this land with the buildings on it, in Cheapside, was being purchased for 445. the yard square Mr. Gladstone : How many:yards ? Mr. Holme : 1000 yards. The recommendation and the remaining proceedings were confirmed. The proceedings of the watch committee were also con- firmed, It was then nearly four o'clock, and the council, on the motion of Mr. S. Holme, adjourned to Wednesday next, this being the second adjournment which has taken place. COUNTY COURTv -YESTERDAY (BEFORE JOSEPH POLLOCK, ESQ., JUDGE.) SAMUEL AND ANOTHER V. REGAN. —ID this case the plaintiffs were Anu and Eliza Samuels. and the defen dant was John Regan, a clothier. The sum sought to be recovered was £5 lOs 7,1 d, being the amount of damage alleged to have been done to some premises occupied by the latter. The delapidations complained of chiefly consisted of the removal of a square of plate glass in a door, and substituting one of common glass. After a protracted enquiry, his Honour gave a verdict for the plaintiff, damages £5. _ _ _ BENNETT V. THOMIS.—In this case Mr. Alderman Bennett was the plaintiff, and Richard Thomas, cart owner, of West Derby, was the defendant. The claim Was for £3 lls for a gate and house fittings for a new house built by a person named Hughes, under contract. It being proved that the plaintiff's wife had gone and ordered the things by and with the consent of the contractor Hughes, his Honour directed that a non-suit should be entered, as it was evident that the plaintiff had no claim upon the defendant. EDWARDS V. WRIGLEY.—This was a claim for wages. The plaintiff was a bookkeeper, and had been employed to make up a set of books for the defendants, who carry on business in Temple-buildings. After that he had made up the books he was engaged at £6O per annum, but soon after was discharged without any notice, but at the same time giving him a most excellent character for his assiduity and business habits, and being perfectly fit for any situation in any mercantile house. On the present occasion the junior partner of the firm appeared to defend the claim, and in the course of his evidence stated that the plaintiff had been discharged for absenting himself from his business. His Honour severely commented upon such a procedure, when the witness admitted that the written character was correct. A verdict was given for the plaintiff for £1 38, being the amount for one week's notice. POLICE COURT -YESTERDAY (BEFORE MR. MANSFIELD.) ASSAULT.-George Slater was charged with having assaulted Elizabeth Prout, under the following circum stances :—lt appears that the complainant is a servant to a gentleman named Lawrence, who resides in Prescott street ; Mrs. Lawrence is the sister of the prisoner, who, it was stated, is a person of respectability. Some time since, by the death of the prisoner's mother, he became possessed of some property, and, it was alleged, that when he collected his rents he nes in the habit of getting drunk, and of annoying Mr. Lawrence's house and family. In one of these fits, on Tuesday morning, he called at the house and created a disturbance, broke some property, and assaulted the girl. Mr. Mansfield, after hearing the case pro and con, (the above being the facts), fined the prisoner £2 for the assault. The fine was at once paid. WIFE DESERTION.—CharIes Cowell, described; as a fireman on board the Rose steamer, plying to London, was brought up by Inspector Williams, charged with having left his wife and four children, chargeable on the parish since October last, whereby a cost of £l9 15s had been incurred. The inspector said he found £2 in the prisoner's boots when he arrested him. The prisoner was sent to jail for one month with hard labour. (BEFORE MR. ROMILY.) SHOP ROBBERY.--TWO females, named Susan Jones, and Anne Nowlan, mother and daughter, were brought up by officers Grisenthwaite and Wilson, of the detec tive police, on the following charge. It appeared that between Monday night and Tuesday morning, the drapery shop of Mr. Parker, No. 54, London-road, was broken into, and a considerable quantity of property, consisting of scarfs, silk handkerchief's, shirts, wearing apparel and other things, stolen therefrom. The officers proceeded to the residence of the prisoners in Eaton street, Vauxhall•road, and there found some portion of the stolen goods. The prisoners were remanded. FORTUNATE ESCAPE OF A YOUNG SCOTCH GIRL. but I say that to impute motives to the finance when that committee has been doing the best fo mon interest of all, is unwarran atid st tolerated (Hear, hear.) lould not be he committee I say that they have bet;n deeply reflected on, and that language has been used towards them, which I. say is ufiwertliy of these who have given utterance to it. If they are not lit tb be tiusfbd, remote them, and I confess that I. for one, shall be glad to betelieVed from the duties of an office which subjects me to be "put to the torture and pulled about " by gentlemen 1 now, with reference to - an article which has appeared in the NORTHERN DAILY TIMES, and which is evidently directed a4ainst me. I may, however, go so far as to say that the editor of that paper may be acquitted of making this attack on me from another bow. quote from the article, the wing passage ;—" Now, it is well known that the.cor- poratioA r ase paid as much as £s per square yard for land, within one cartage length of the Princes dock, and that they should now offer land, equally well situated, and in perpetuity, for £2 lOs the square yard, does certainly appear most unpardonable. Only a few months since, one or the principal- movers in this affair, induced the council to purchase, a la,-ge piece of land on the other side of the river, required for a spoil bank, or space for the deposit of earth, for £2 los per square yard. Now, if land was worth 5Ds at that out of tile way spot, and for such a purpose, surely the plot of ground in Great Howard- Street—the centre of all the trade and traffic of Liverpool —must be Worth something more. Taking into account the relative advantages of the two sites, the only conclu sion to be arrived at is, that the price paid at Birken head was extravagantly high, and'a glaring waste of the corporate funds, or that the ,ground in Great Howard street is to be disposed of for little more than a nominal consideration. The worthy alderman who induced the council to purchase the Birkenhead land, will probably explain this palpable anomaly on Wednesday next." Now, the explanation in answer to that, is a very simple one. The statement has been made in sheer ignorance, qr in downright malignity. (Hear. hear.) What is the fact? The allusion is evidently to the North Reserve ; and you, sir, know that I had no more to do with the purchaae of it than any other mem. ber of this council. It is said, however, that I induced the council to sanction that purchase, and in the next place the price is stated to have been £2 lOs the square yard. I specially mention this point to show how the public are fooled in these matters. The land comprises 290,400 square yards, in close proximity with the entrance of our great basin, and, deducting the cost of building the wall, all that was paid for it was £73,000; or in other words, instead of £2 lOs the square yard being paid for it, the price was simply five shillings and one farthing. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) It is just of a piece with Many of the charges that have been made in reference to the question now before the council. (Elear, hear.) Odium has been sought to be cast on Mr. James Holme. Mr. James Holme : I beg of you not to introduce my name at all into the matter. Mr. Alderman 8. Holme : My brother has refused to give me any answers to my questions in this matter, but yet I must state what 1 have received from the surveyor, for it is right that the public should know how this matter arose. (Hear, hear.) A short time since Mr. Wightman was directed to procure plans for a public market at the north end of, the town. There was a piece of land in the district named, containing some 3,000 square yards, belonging to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Com pany, and used for a vegetable market. Mr. Wightman thought the site the only one which would suit, it having a moderate depth, and a gre at frontage to Great Howard-street, and he therefore asked Mr. James Holme whether the company would sell the land. The reply was, no: He then said, " had you not better buy the land from us in Great Howard-street, occupied by the Borough Gaol ? " Mr. James Holme answered that he would name the matter to Mr. William Stewart, and when he did so, they agreed to bring it before the board. About the'same period, I saw Mr. Stewart on some private business ; and not knowing that any thing had at all passed in the matter, suggested the advisability of this purchase to him, and he then informed me, for the first time, that my brother:had men tioned it to him, and that they were going to bring it be fore their board. The board decided on opening a communication with the corporation in reference to it, and then Mr. James Holme came directly to the finance committee, and openly said, you have a piece of land in such a place, and we will e'er you so much for it." (Wear, hear.) Now, where lay the impropriety in such a course? Land has been often purchased for the car -poration by individual members, and even to-day, you will be called on to sanction the purchases which have been made, though the intervention of two members of this council. (Hear, hear.) It cannot be a pure fountain where polluted streams flow, and I, therefore, deprecate the introduction of those imputations of motives, against gentlemen who are rather deserving of our thanks and consideration. Allusion has been made to Pickup's old mill. I did, undoubtedly, give a valuation of that land, and the thing came before a jury. Surveyors were examined and various opinions, as is usual among men, were given ; but it was a small piece of land, and was altogether differently circumstanced from the block of land now in question. Mr. Holme then continued to say that when the gaol land was cut up parties might give five guineas the square yard for frontages with tweaty yards depth, but they would still have 12,000 square yards of back land for which it would be impossible to get the price spoken of there. With regard to the land purchased by the London and North Western Company, it was true that they paid .t 3 Si. the square yard for it, but then it had two fronts in impor tant lines of streets. If they sold the land in fee at once they would have to invest the money in some other pro perty like the Newsham.house estate, which would not be for many years yet ready for the market. The proof was that they had not had a single offer for the land. Mr. W. Earle : And not likely. • Mr. Holme continued to say that the corporation had also possessed property in Gibraltar-street, and it was sold-740 square yards—at £2 17s 6.1 the square yard. They had another piece of land near the Northern Hospi tal. The highest price offered for it was 355, and it was finally sold to the late Mr. Horsfall for £1 14s 6d. He himself was a purchaser of land in Dundee-street, with two tronts, and he considered that he bid an outside price for it, when he gave 43 5s the square yard. He did intend to depreciate the judgment of Mr. Cunningham. But it should be remembered that that 'gentleman was more celebrated and experienced as an architect than as a valuer of land, With regard to the once contemplated improvements in the locality, he apprehended they had per mitted the time to go bye for that, one great difficulty now staring them in the face there, in the difference of 15 feet between the level of the canal and the level of the railway. In conclusion, Mr. Holme again expressed his conviction in the wisdom of the recommendation, and declared that he willingly left to time his justification in the matter. Mr. W. Earle considered the committee incapable of a job, but declared that he would comment on their pro ceedings with severity. He would poke Mr. Hornby on this side and that side—he would poke him through the body if he could. (Great laughter.) Why didn't they purchase the Arcade and widen Bold-street. Mr. Alderman Cooper : The public don't want. Mr. W. Earle : They do want, sir ; and if everybody was as bulky as you they would want it twice as much. (Laughter.) Ido not think the committee knew the kind of purchasers they had in tow here. (Laughter.) They want the land. I do not say that we should squeeze them, but we should make them pay the full value. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Hodson addressed the Council, and repeated the arguments which he used when he moved the first amend ment against the recommendation. He denied that he had ever imputed a motive or reflected upon Mr. James Holme, but he still maintained that that gentleman could not serve the two masters he was bound to. He gave an instance when land in St. Paul's-square sold at five and seven guineas the square yard, and maintained that the improvements in Great Howard-street could still be carried out. _ _ Mr. Alderman Parker supported the recommendation of the finance committee. He expressed a disregard for any comments which might be made upon his conduct in that council out of doors, and declared that he took such language as was used in that portion of the press, ca ll e d the NORTHERN TIMES, as a great compliment. (Laughter.) To be attacked by that journal, showed that he was in the right path. (Laughter.) He liked abuse from such quarters, because he knew that if he got their praise, he should begin to think he was going wrong. (Laughter.) As to the ward meeting at Bainbury's, Mr. Bainbury was in the chair, he proposed, he seconded, and two or three of his friends who were drinking in the house, supported the resolution. (Laughter.) That meeting was called an expression of the opinion of St. Paul's ward. If gentlemen out of doors wanted to express their opinion, let them call ward meetings, and call their representatives in that council. What was the meeting in the Clarendon Rooms of a few influential gentlemen—did it speak the opinions of the town ? Where were 4 the tens of thousands of the burgesses who constituted the town ? He contended that there had been nothing which could be termed an expression of public opinion against the recommendation. Mr. J. A. Tobin contended that 4i per cent. could not be considered an insufficient rate of interest, even CAUTION TO THE PUBLIC, Yesterday, after the morning sittings had been dis posed of at the Police-court, before Mr. Mansfield. Mr. Clough, the chief superintendent, brought the following case under his worship's notice : Two women, named Mary Singleton, the keeper of a lionse of ill-fame in Frederick-street, and Mary Ballantyne, one of her " household," were put forward on a charge of having pledged some clothes, the property of an interesting looking young Scotch girl. named Elizabeth Nesbitt. The facts elicited were these : The girl, who resided with her father at a place called Mollington, near Greenock, was a dressmaker. She took a notion into her head to come to Liverpool to look for work; and she left home without her father knowing it. She arrived in Liverpool on Saturday, and just as she came from on board the steamer, she was accosted by the prisoner Ballantyne, who is also a Scotch girl, and in the course of conversation, the new corner told her she was a dressmaker and wanted work. The prisoner told her she would get her plenty of work and well paid for it, too, and took her to the house of the other prisoner ; where she slept that night, not suspecting anything wrong. The next morning a man entered the room and made improper overtures to her, which she r3sisted, and began to cry. The man seeing this, desisted, and told her the sort of place she was in, and advised her to get out if she could. He added that this would be a difficult task, as she had been brought in there for an improper purpose, and that the owner intended to make morLy out of her. The defendant then pledged some of the girl's clothes, and would not allow her out in the streets without accompanying her. She got out, however, and told a policeman, who informed Mr. Clough of the subject, and that gentleman, very properly, had the parties arrested ou the charge of pledging the clothes. Mr. Mansfield expressed a hope that the gentlemen of th e press would give the case the utmost publicity possible; he had no doubt that thousands of poor girls were trapped from Wales and other parts of the king dom, under pretence of getting employment, but instead of that they were ruined ; and thus increased the number of unfortunate girls in the streets. It was a great pity that the leg islature had not turned its atten tion to this sort of trafic, which ought to be punished snore sevrrely than the worst kind of robbery. Ho trusted that the publicity of the case would be a caution to others not to be entrapped The girl had made a most fortunate escape from destruction, and be advised her to take care of herself in future. He directed Mr. Clough to send her safe back to her father, and ordered the prisoners to he imprisoned for two months and kept to hard labour, for illegally pledging the clothes.