The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-02-07 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS. An adjourned meeting of the town council was held on Wednesday, to consider the bill prepared by the committee for the affairs of the estate of the Liverpool docks, pursuant to the resolutions of that committee, adopted by the council at their meeting onthe 2d of October last," and as a special council upon the following subjects :- I.—A motion, of which notice has been given by Mr. Henry Lawrence : " That the resolution of the council of the al Octoberlast, so far as relates to the erection, by the dock trustees, of ware houses on the dock quays, be rescinded; and that 'the for empowering the dock trustees to build•such warehouses; and all reference thereto, in the preamble :(If the intended bill, be omitted." 2.—A motion, of which notice has been given by Mr. Al derman Booth : " That those recommendations of the Finance Committee, on the subject of the intended warehouses: on the quays of the docks, which were adopted by the council on the Bth of March last, be made part of the provisions of the new dock act." THE QUEEN'S MARRIAGE. The MAYOR stated that as the Que en's marriage \-, ' n• • : an nounced in the Gazette to take place on the 10 th instant ; the council would perhaps have no objection that the question of , the festivities to take place on that day should first be con sidered. The committee had then prepared a report, which the town-clerk would read. The TOWN-CLERK read the following report : " That, in the opinion of the committee, her Majesty s marriage would be well celebrated by the application of money out of the surplus revenue in aid of the undermentioned pub lic charities—such assistance being much needed at present, and such as would clearly operate for the public benefit of , the inhabitants. "That, with this impression, the committee submit the following rccornmendation, viz.:— " That the mayor, aldermen, and burgesses, by the coun cil, should grant £5OO to the Infirmary and the Northern and Southern Hospitals, the Dispensaries, and the Provident District Society ; and, in the event of the public subscribing to the same charities not less than £2OOO, the donation of the corporation be augmented to £looo—the whole amount from the corporation and the public being to be divided as follows : " The Infirmary and Northern Hospitals, one-third ; the Di s p en saries, one -third ; and the District Provident,Society, one-third ; and the subscriptionTheing to be closed by the meeting of the council in April. " That, in addition, the committee would recommend that the council should direct application to be made to the.row mittees of the Royal Institution and Botanic Gardens, that these institutions may be open to the public on the auspicious day ; that the bells should be rung ; guns flied ;' and colours hoisted on the public buildings, and en the vessels of all. nations in our docks and river—to effect which, the neces sary application to parties, and other measures, will have to be *directed ; and that the royal arms should in the evening of the day be put up, illuminated, over the entrance to the Townshall. " That the committee further recommend, that as the mayor has most liberally determined to give a ball in the evening to upwards of 1500 persons—a measure calculated not only to give satisfaction to the parties invited, hut to afford business and employment to a portion of the indus trious classes—his worship, in addition to his ordinary may oralty provision, have the disposal, for the occasion, of wine to be provided by the corporation. • " That it he further recommended, that addresses to the Queen and Prince Albert, from the mayor, aldermen, and burgesses, under the counnou seal, should be presented; and that the mayor should be requested, at the proper time, to proceed to London on the occasion, accompanied by two members of the council to be appointed by them." • Mr. CURRIE moved the adoption of the report. Mr. H. HOLMES seconded the motion. Mr. Alderman FREME thought that, on such an occasion as the Queen's marriage, a sum (say of £500) ought to be granted to the mayor, to distribute in- whatever way he should think fit—amongst others, to entertain the prisoners in the borough gaol, and the inmates of the workhouse. By doing so they should raise the character of the mayor, and by that means serve themselves. If the sum of £5OO were thought too much, he should have no objection to lower the sum to £3OO. Mr. Freme concluded by moving, as au ad dition to the report, that the sum of £3OO he granted to the mayor, to be disposed of at his discretion. Mr. COGLAN seconded the motion. He should like to see the day a day of genuine festivity amongst the lower classes. Mr. ROBINSON was not satisfied with the amount pro posed to be given, and proposed that £l5OO should be given to the charities, the funds of which, particularly those of the Infirmary, were in a very lamentable state. • Mr. ISAAC HOLMES observed that, if the £5OO were ..• granted, with an understanding that the mayor would' iii fi t pose of the surplus to the public charities, that would obviate all objection, at least on his part. • Mr. BOLTON agreed in thinking that the prisoners in the borough gaol and the inmates of the workhouse should be regaled, and the entertainment might also be extended to the children in the corporation schools. One hundred pounds, however, would be sufficient to do all that was necessary. The workhouse, it ought to be remembered, was the parish business. Mr. D. HODGSON thought that, by entertaining the pri soners, those unfortunate persons were induced to look upon it as a right on other occasions, instead of considering the entertainment as springing from a feeling of commiseration for their situation. He referred more particularly to the criminal part of the inmates of the gaol. Mr. COMM: opposed the amendment of Mr. Freme, and said, what was recommended by the report was sufficient for the occasion, although he was as anxious as any one that the occasion should be commemorated in a manner worthy of the town. As far as a small sum for the regaling of the paupers and the prisoners iu the borough gaol._ he thought that the committee would not object to go. The sum of £5OO had been termed paltry by Mr. Robinson; but the council were asked to say, that if the public would come forward, - they (the council) would subscribe an additional £5OO. This he considered an excellent method for inducing those to sub scribe who would otherwise have kept their money in their pockets. A committee would be appointed to go round to' those wealthy persons whose names did not figure in thelists of subscribers to the public charities (of whom there were many) and they would be ashamed to hold back. If £3OOO were obtained, that would be a very handsome sum. , Mr. HuGLi HORNET, should certainly' oppose the , aulentlz =tits both of Mr. Freme and Mr. Robinson:: -may Otatt offered a very handsome sum to the charities, whilst they' had, at the same time, been actitated with a due regard'‘Co? economy. He had no objection to the prisoners- in the borough gaol and the inmates of the workhoust, being eater, taiued ; but it would be perfect insanity to vote. OW for, that purpose. Forty pounds would be quite sufficient fur : that, and as Mr. Freme bad mentioned no other objects,'. why sbou:d the council make the extravagant grant pm - m*4V ; Mr. Alderman Slime admired the spirit of economy which pervaded the speech of Mr. Currie. From that ht augured well for the future management of the Finance Committee', He thought, however, that the proposal of Mr. Frerne was a judicious one, and he knew of no man at whose disposal he would more willingly place a sum of money theta the mayor. Mr. Alderman EVANS participated in much of the satis: faction of Mr. Sheil at the speech of Mr. Currie, and greatly regretted that such wholesome admonitions, contained in so few words, came so seldom from the quarter where they ought to prevail, which was the pulldt. He hoped that these remarks would go forth, in order that the rich might be taught to know that their conduct was not unobserved. There were in Liverpool many persons with tea, twenty, thirty, and forty thousand a year, who considered that they had done their duty when they put down a bookkeeper's guinea. He had heard one of those millionaires declare; witli great pride and indignation, that certain articles in the papers, which he thought directed at him, were altogether unjust and unfounded; for he subscribed to every charity in Liver pool. He (Mr. Evans) was, in consequence of that state ment, induced to look through the lists, and found that lie (the person referred to) subscribed to many, though not all the charities ; but in scarcely any instance did his subscrip tion exceed that of a man who had but a few hundreds to provide for his family and his subscriptions- ,to the-public, charities. He quite agreed with Mr. Currie in thinking tha t . before they contributed to the enjoyments of those who were confined in the Borough Gaol, they ought to regard those who were nobly con t en di ng , by me ans of their own honest industry, against the casualties and hardships of life, who were buried in cellars and lay upon straw, and who yet - bad resisted temptation, and had not applied to charities. To neglect these for the purpose of entertaining the inmates of a gaol, was to do a very wrong thi ng . Th e y (th e prisoners) ought to know no alleviation of their punishment. It ought to be to them an ad y d , it t i hr ou o a u l g o h ue the ro i know that whilst others were rejoicing, the y, were being kept in grief and seclusion. With re gard r to mes ' the debtors, he had had some little experience, and he wa s of opinion that ' those who found their way into gaol on a c co un t htlie ' ir f there, is nine cases out of ten, through quite con o t w ei n t debt, arrived ex.ttrhava gance and want of principle. He was report, and hoped that no addition would be made'tow'itl. the Mr. G_ LADSTONE could not concur with what had fallen from Mr. Currie and Mr. Evans with respect to persons not corning forward as they ou g ht to have done. 1-le mentioned it as a fact not generally known, that the charitable institu tions in Liverpool we re all su pp orted by a number of persons under two thousand. He thought that the council should not bargain with the public, but take higher ground, and at once vote £lOOO, leaving the public to do their duty. Surely, if the £lOOO were needed by the charities in the event of the public subscribing £2OOO, it would be more needed if that sum were not subscribed • and it would be a more honoura ble course to give the £lOOO without any condition. Mr. BUSIJELL, with regret, differed from his friend Mr. Gladstone. Never, in his opinion, was an arrangement more likely to give satisfaction to the town at large than the= hue proposed in the report. If that condition had not been inserted, the £lOOO would not have been named at all ; for 1:500 was considered by the cornmittee_as much , as could be well afforded ; but in the hope that the charities would mate rially benefit, they said, " Let us propose an additional £5OO, if the public will subscribe a certain sum." He was not prepared to grant the propos ed sum to the may or. Mr. JOR DAN perfectly agreed with every w ord that had were many fallen from Mr. Bushell. There p eople whom nothing but a sense of public shame would drive to put their hands into their pockets. Mr. R.vrithoNE thought tha t b th ee e n the best plan which could ha ve re port contained by far at this time. There were in the tow n rich dev ised men,t o raise and women money too,_ who had given largely to the charities, and whose wealth no one begrudged ; but the b r o e i s ' e svere also rich men whose wea lth was begrudged, and w hos e money it dishonestly, so that he n h o e t w s o o uld get f ro m them, honestly if he could , but if he u get it, be would getcould keep his neck from the halter. —(Laughter.) Mr. MeLLOIt thought the plan was a good one to met £ 2OOO for the charities , and be p roposed that subscri ption ' s should 2 begin in that room. Mr. COOPER. agreed with Mr. Gladstone that the corpora_ Lion should boldly com e forward with a sum of mone y , with out. any condition. lie also liked the proposition of the last speaker. The council could be very liberal with the public money i let the public see whether they could be liberal with their own money. He should be very glad to put down his narne as a subscriber. Mr. PLATT thought that many of the persons who did not Dow subscribe to the charities would do so if called upon. The Tower-CLERK stated that he had the a thrown mend. meat of Mr. F reme i n to the following shape, in order that the provisions of the municipal act might be complied with : "That, taking into consideration the approaching marriage of the Queen, and the cells to which, therefore, the Mayor will be subject, beyond the expense already entered int o b y him for that oc cas i on , the suns of three hundred pounds be placed at his worship's disposal, in addition to the ordinary mayoralty provision." The report, to which the above was added, was then con firmed. rug Vim DOCK BILL—WAREHOUS E S ON THE DOCK Q UAYS. The MAYOR having called upon Mr. Evans , Mr. Alderman Evaris said that h e : rose, and be trusted for the last time, to move the adoption of the bill prepared by the Dock Committee, and which had been submitted to the approbation of the council. The motion which he sho uld sn ake was not exactly in accordance with his own opin ion, but in deference to tbe opinion which e , b ex pressed by the council at their last meeting Th e was • Th e resolution was as follows : " That the bill now submitted by the Dock Committee to tho council, as trustees for the docks, forthe making o f a new dock, to the wes t of the Salthouse Dockavritti . Vi t *„., houses on the quays Laud for the erectron of waieliMie s ile the west quay of the Prince's Dock ; and fO i r n t t he e n g i av aiit n - }nrve illetit otineli Warehouses"; and for improvements h a b. rid . regulation of the docks, be adopt ed ; .pursualltio:tfiirre:i Ploita,f9ho council of the 2d of October last, - subject 'to '-:4:1 - :-• - -Aflr ,-........- : ,',,,--• '4 4 ; ' PV . i . ' t - c '.-* ", 0 . 4: ~, 0 .. i . ;• : . \: , 7 : .:J 1 e..., ..e,ii_sl._ -•:. r:..„:: 4 ( • e- '*'''''': ',..-i‘.,;L?/›. ( *. - . ... •-:..-1a,.:::::1--...:::::•,-;;;..: !,,..:, -4 „,„ • '-'-:-, f ii` f .. ;• 1 4,7 2w; ' (tv , :. ---\ ',.. - ...... gb ,„ 1... ) , "441,7 the separate consideration, by the council, of each clause of the bill ; and that the council do forthwith proceed to the consideration thereof accordingly." He remained of opinion that there was no good and sufficient reason for the withdrawal of the sanction .of the council . to the principles which were contained in that • bill. They, no doubt, had had a new election, and were now proceeding with new members ; but he could not take that as any more sufficient reason. Mr. HonosoN rose to order. He would put it to the Mayor whether this was not an adjourned debate. If this ere the case,.Mr. Evans. of cour,e, was out, of order, as he ..,, .....__ had already spoken. The ALVVOR .S3ill . IR! had previously consulted with the 'rown-clerk on - the. point raised br,lir. llodgson,and he (the Town-clerk) was of opinion that it would be perfectly right. in him , (the Mayor). to .call upon: Air. -Evans to open-.the Mr. Alderman EVANS then.proeceded. He said that the fact of some new member haring entered that chamber was not a much more sufficie.nt reason. for reversing the-solemn resolutions of the...council than the-return of a score of new members,_ which occasionally happened during a session of parliament, would-he -for 'reversing the resolutions of the 1-1 °use- or Commons. rThe resolutiOil d:tite , 3d-.octoher had been. affi rimed by - a -majority, And he.-could not: suppose that the .advent of-the new members was to dissolve all th 6 ties and resolutions of that council. Ho had been so deeply im pressed with the idea that the council would not swerve from its usual and proper course, and.on the last occasion he de clined going into the merits of the case. The bare idea of the reversal of the resolutions, and the negativing of the bill which was now before them, made him shudder, not so muck for the pecuniary loss which would' continue to-be inflicted on the commerce of Liverpool. as for the loss of character and moral influence which municipal government: the coun try's best hope. could not fail to sustain. He could not allow himself to believe, howevel., that that council, on the only .occasion where its public virtue had been tried against private interests, would be found wanting. He could not think that corporation, the first and greatest offspring of reform, would be the first to offer obstruction to improvement.. He could - not believe that - ai - to -- - tfia - t - tide of improvement which Wag 'rushing past them in every. direction, they would say, " Thus far shalt thou go and no farther." He conceived that to refuse dock warehouses was to commit some moral offence, similar to that of the ignorant and.. infatuated weavers and spinners, who ,destroyed the mach,lnery which so soon afterwards increased ihe;'employment•which they. were apprehensive it. _Would ae.. ,considered thai -the same cause of overwhelming advantage to the public that resulted to them from the superiority of railroads over .common roads, and commanded their creation . , held in the case of dock warehouses as cam - pared with the ordinary warehouses: And, mlireover, on this case, their formation was . attended with this additional advantage, - that they (the council) usurped on no man's land, but made use of that which was their own ; and they could build ~warehouses at such a cost that no possible loss couldle, involved by their erection, but they. would yield any return, : alinbst any return, that the public, might choose to require from - them,'. and all without infringing oh the'iights, and facilities, and cheapness which, 'in other respects, they would giire, and which they (the council) Well knew were Of the utmost. importance to mer chants. As long as space, time, and expense were admitted to be of the most iuiportant consideration to commerce, he conceived that hohOdy could hesitate in acknowledging the _.. great superiority of warehouses - at hand, and in combination with shipping, to 'those which were at a distance. That council; he looked on it, incurred a most awful responsibility in rejecting the improv - ernents now offered by the Dock Committee. They would unquestionably have the mortifi cation to see those piles of warehouses which were rejected springing up around other docks. - Could it be believed, when it was very well known and ascertained, that they (the merchants) would not use every means in their power to obtain them elsewhere ? Here would be not only a loss of moral character. and of moral influence, but they would have to relinquish the -dock dues, and there would be . a loss both public and private. What a wretched remnant that bill would appear to be e when gutted of its most important provisions ! If it went before a committee of. the House of Commons in that shape, the clauses expunged here would be restored there, by others divesting the corporation of all Controul-over the dock trustees. If, instead of going with the upright character and moral strength with which the dock trustees could go to parliament with the whole hill in their hands, they (the council) were to go there with any - - thing which confessedly relinquished the consideration of the interests of commerce, and denied to the public those benefits which were of incalculable advantage, they would go with a certainty of losing it. He would, for the present, discard all particular motives in the various assertions, and the false inferences drawn upon them, which had been urged against dock warehouses. If there had been no private ware houses; could it have entered into the head of any mortal man to build them anywhere except upon the dock quays-? .1- - Viutit'titeessarys after that, to - go _into the mawkish .details and argutnents which were put forth, from either miStakin or interested motives - , under the.pretence 'of showing that the public interest could • not really be benetittedby deck ware houses ?- • (Hear, hear, hear.) "Why, if thewarelmuSe owners. wouldlake the straightforward and inanlycourse, they would . discard all this -conteniPtible skirmishing. Let them come forward and try the issue of their right s let them make out a case, if they could; to pi-Oye that the commerce of the port should forever be denied the advantage of dock warehouses —to show that whatever may be the loss of time and injury to ships and merchants' capital which may arise from the perpetuation of this•bad system, still that the commerce of Liverpool islo continue to endure it for all time. If they could make out a case of that sort, it remained for those who suffered to devise means for their emancipation. Now, he had heard .the word monopoly bandied about. What did it aim at ? Monopoly was generally underltood to be a raising of prices by individuals who had. exclusive privileges, for the purpose, in fact, of robbing others. But what was the cry against them (the dock trust or council) in this instance ? Why, that they were acting to lower prices. That was the cry of the warehouse-owners. They (the Dock Committee) could -afford to charge_ double the ordinary . rate for their warehouses ; and ifsestraint were needed, it was in the upper movement, not in the lower. one. Their monopoly would be ones of advantage—one caused by location, and the public would derive the whole benefit. It was extraordinary how much might he said on a subject- of this sort in refutation of what had been ten times refuted before; but he apprehended that if any of the cobwebs which had been spun before, and Inushedsaway, were replaced again, the gentlemen who would follaWhim in the discussion woulanotallow them to remain, - or,lll it happened that-any escaped:their observati,onOie be-., :iieve&thrithe should _he able ,to dispose of them-.in the last resorts 'it bad been often . said that - 20 or 30 years ago it wouldhaye. beenquite proper to have -the warehouses. • But who - wouldthave oppesed.thear? :- Why. the identical interest that opposed them now, and - which would equally oppose ,• therna hitt - liked years - hence. Liverpool was yet in its course, -andiit - Bail not arrived at anything like its midway advance-. .went::. advantages that it was like a good soil-seit required attention to its culture in proportion tO '-itstkalite.ss-lioteLiverpotsishad - its• competitors, - and . it could not bear to' be weighted without. its progress being-- impeded' more or less, in proportion to the obstruction Placed in its way.- Because-Liverpool had gone on advan cing inabsolutesdefiunee of all advantages of this kind, that wa - sato argument thatatow, when a better mode of working sea-ports had been arrived at, she should not adopt it, and advance with greatly-accelerated speed in future. Amongst the contradictions nu& weak trash which it had been his lot to read,-for;he declared .that, having nothing but a single. ness of purpose in his object, if he had met with anything to convince him he would have dropped it—he had met with nothing that was: worth one straw in opposition to ware houses. (Hear.) All the great leading physical and moral elements—time,. distance, and expense—were in fid - our of the: scheme. It . was ~no use going into Minor details till logic had proved that these were elements which did not enter into commercial prosperity. He had heard about transit sheds, the cost of which would be about one-third that of the warehouses—which it was intended should pay. nothing, and which; as every body thought, would answer very little to the purpose. - Amongst other of the lOose and.contradictory as; sertions which he had happened to read in one of the fugitive productions on this subject, was an assertion that seemed to strike a very clever friend of his - more than - it struck hitns namely, that the warehouses of Liverpool hail,Coutributed,to. its prosperity, never recollecting that .it was commerce that, created warehouses, and not warehouses that created tom anerce.'---They had had it urg&l, and urged too in analiamst slanderous manner, that as the DoCk Committee were not personally interested in the matter, - they could not act hon estly in the achninistratiOn of the dock trust. (No. no,) Was there ever such an odious principle as that laid down ? He envied not the man who entertained Such Opinions.. If such personi Could beCome an inmate of his breast, they would find that he laboured under such a sense of responsibilty which they could never feel.. . • _ .. Mr. Boisios: seconded the motion. He said that there were these applications to parliament for the power of erecting docks on the river Mersey, and every one of the plain; 'em braced•warehotiaes in . connexion With the (leeks. There could not be a more conclusive proof of the necessity of warehouses adjoining the docks, and any; committee of the House of Commons, impartially constituted would so think. The effect of dock warehousei.wOuld be to improve. the value of pro perty .in the centre of the town.; and he had not the smallest doubt, that the warehouses in Hanover - street and Wapping, would beconie more valuable. when the, proposed new dock was completed. The general property of the town would alSo increase ; .and the advantages would extend to Lodge-lane and Spekelands. ' ._ „ Mr. Alderman EARLE—That is a good one, however,. . Mr. H. LAWRENCE withdrew his motion in favor of that of Mr. Booth, reserving to himself the right of bringing his own forward, in case that of the other gentleman was lost. Mr. Alderman BOOTH then proposed his amendment, ob serving that the council had, in his opinion, as much right to interfere with the decision of October last; as it had to inter fere with and negative that of March. He called upon the. Town-clerk tD read the second report Of the Finance Com mittee,- on docks and dock warehouses, which Was . received. ofwhich been e e is i i . and approved Of by th e counc il o f th e Bth of March. That having done, Mr. Booth m o ve d hi s amendment, a copy inserted; above : Ile-was-of opinion that•transit sheds and cranes would afford adequate accommodation, en sure facility and despatch,, arid enable the docks to do at least double the duty now performed by them. Mr: Alderman EARLE seconded the ainendruent. He said that Mr. Evans was extremely fond of using harsh terms, such as mawkish language, trash, &c. They were all fools on the opposite side, and he (Mr. Evans) was an exceedingly clever am sure I only followed your example. man. EN, N s A..... 4 Mr. a ra n e d I to has 3 e y (Laughter.) n th ot a t ; l a i e n d h als must s l a l y e t h n a a s t lo w e ri ll t a re s .ll N E v o r An i ri t ttLhe:e.;""'ellitileelt:ttwr,a.Sh, t oo, if he will allow me to say so. an extraordinary doctri ne t o h o ld out t h at t h e new It wamemberss entering that council sheuld exactly coincide with opinion' which had previously be en affi rm ed. ' If t h ey the(thenew members) did not like anything that had passed, had not they aright to exercise their owUjUdginent, or were they. to b e h o und to the ipse dait of Mr. Evans, thatare ho *and nothing else would do? W As to the spinners,' the weavers, and railroads,' those were no parallel. cases. Rail ways were undertaken by private individuals ; but here was a great trust, with the public money at their disposal, not caring whether they expended one hundred thousand or. two 1 hund re d thousand pounds, nor whether they realised one or two per cent. Mr. EV ANS an d Mr. BARCLAY both rose to ord e r. Mi. EARLE.--I can answer, you, Mr. Barclay, and Mr. Evans too. Mr. BARCLAY protested against the bro ad char g e brought against the Dock Committee by Mr. Earle. The NIANOR advised Mr. Earle to keep as close to the subject as he could. Bar clay, who was a very fin e Mr: EARLE—He was riot going . to quarrel with Mr. l l a laker, and e lt him have his turn. (Laughter.) They w ou ld' that. (Laughter.) lie was a,and had a large private interest, which absolutely necessary for thehalere.euslyditldiehteimn ( ; Mr h .. Earle) in should Suffer, it should suffer • publici, interest good that his ._ of , but he would nut have it suf fer en the mere assertion m e. Evans He denied the cor rec tness of the statement made by t h e alderman at the -Meet .- meet ing of Saturday , with respect. to the value of the warehouse property in • Liverpool. He had yielded then to Mr. Evans b eca use he thought that a person correcting what h e t e r m ed a mis-statement :would talc.: care to.he correct ; but he had since ascertained that the original estimate wan very nearly,Property was if not quite c orrect. , In 1837, the wareho use rated at £152,411 ; that would show a value of about three millions, which was more than 11 . I..vans s. estimate, at any the present value was 8 -Al- * Evans, had estimated that about,oayoiu rate. But a person who was as capable of judging a t , ou t six some warehouse yield a rental of X 260 property Th per illiO e ll en S i., ,,7 ad that higher. it mouldreturn not pay so much. The same gave ; , he. had. some that did than Person harLstated . that there were mortgages on warehouse property to the.,extent of £2,400,000. He bad never said that the Dock Committee had interested motives, and that they were devoid of honesty ; but he contended that the . . strongest inducement for persons to exercise their talent, in genuity, and attention, was to have a pecuniary interest themselves ; and he believed that if the docks Were et to private interests, the town and trade would get on a great deal quicker and better. (Hear, hear.) This was the very' essence.of things in London. Mr. Earle then quoted from a newspaper a speech of Mr. Currie on this subject, delivered in moving the adoption of the report of the Finance Commit tee, and alluded to that gentleman's change of opinion. . Mr. H. Hour supported the original motion. He repeated the statement made by Mr. Evans on Saturday, relative to the value of warehouse property, which he estimated to be about one million and three quarters. Mr. Alderman I3ENN said it was the practice, in for Mer days, for the merchants to have their counting-houses con-. tiguous to their private dwellings. In consequence of this we found innumerable warehouses in HenrY-street,.Duke street, and other situations extremely inconsistent with the convenience of trade. • Merchants had removed to their coun try houses, and would also remove their Warehousesto the neighbourhood Of the Exchange, but finding that they _could not, they called upon the public to cart goods' to their ware houses. • Now, this,.in the, _present,ilay, waS-;extrutuely.., - reasonable. A new race Of . merchants had risen they had eoMe here from London and various places- abroad, and when they saw the situation of the preserit warehouses, they said,' ".We have no interest in.them ; we expect you to find us with_ warehouses . upon the dock quays where we can con __. veniently transact our business." They naturally pointed to the large vacant plot of ground on the west side of Salthouse Dock, and said, "" here you have an opportunity of building warehouses upon the same plan as the dock warehouses in London and other places, which are found to work to great advantage." And this appeared to he very reasonable, be cause these parties found they could not. pursue their business in Liverpool with the same facilities as in London without some such exertions. If they-placed goods in a Liverpool warehouse, the buyers from London and the manufacturing districts would not purchase them, because they had no re liance upon the mode of warehousing., By the present, if a shipment of goods were damaged it was not fairly reportedlo• the buyers, because the only parties employed to examine and sample them were this servants of the Owners- of the goods. The consequence was 'that by these goods, Whieli when sold by auction, were -required to-be taken with all faults, were found by the buyer, on gOing into the warehouse to take them away, not to have been fairly , sampled—that •the injured portion had not been introduced into . the - . sample —and that there was `greitr injustice in the'ltlitkle of Valli= piing, The buyers had no redress; consequently they-- 7 . particularly buyers for export and drysalters—had become too `disgusted with the present system of things, that they had ceased to buy in Liverpool. In-London the dock companies examined the . goods in the warehouses ; they searched out samples to the brokers ; when the goods had' been so sampled, the weight of them was - ascertained, and the companies held themselves liable-for their delivery. Hut in Liverpool there were innumerable instances of pilferage, to a large extent ; and he believed, Mr. - Sands would say, that indigo was often stolen. lie himself (Mr. Benn) only a few days ago, was called upon to pay dut y-upon a cask of coffee he had imported, which, when taken from the warehouse., was found to he nearly empty----for the coffee thus pilfered from the warehouse he had to pay the duty, although the sale had been made two or three years ago. There was a petition against the mea- sure 'from a large number of i!orterS,' carters, and others whose occupation it was said would be gone if this proposi tion were adopted ; and it would, if the erection of the ware houses would not - bring that large increase•of trade which they must necessarily do. There must 'be at least as many, or more Men employed in the examination and weighing of the goods lodged in the warehouses as at present; and, if there should be a diminution in- the number of horses oni- ployed, he considered:that would be a national good. The carters themselves ; if need be,- must find occupation in some other way. (Hear, hear:), Another point was, that the mer chants who came here to settle—foreigners as well as Vl- glishmen—come for the purpose of pi:ofitably transacting their business, they wished to have an opportunity of bring ing back to-Liverpool returns for the goods they exported froM Liverpool; but, as matters now stood, a large portion of those returns,went either to the continent or to London. Now, those returns should be invited to come here, and he believed they would, provided there was the means of placing them where they would enjoy the confidence of buyers, and in which there would be no difficulty in selling them. This branch of commerce would certainly then be very large. With regard to wines and spirits, it must be obvious that vaults, possessing the greatest possible security, were much wanted in this town. Wines, in particular, under the present gysteM, were continually being opened and con-. sumed by, persons who frequent the bonding warehouses— for'the bonding - . warchouses were the least secnre in the town. NOW, it was he duty of the council and of the - Dock Com, mittee to endeavour to lessen' the disadvantage under which the town laboured in this respect. The Dock Conimittee • had eonsidere& the natter in every poinfof view, and they' were decidedly - of opinion, - that Without these 'warehouses thev . !could - nOt afford the seetrrity inicl the facilities which'the public asked for. Beit reinambered, 'there - was such a port in the kingdom, in 'which,the inaking of docks'and the build , • ing of Warehouses' did not invariably accompany one another, 'no matter What the• price of •land might be: As•to the ei- - penie in this case, he •believed the returns from• making a' dock, Without warehouses, on the _west side of Salthouse Dock, would be eX6eedingly'stnall, but with the addition of warehouseS it would r et ur n 'about XS per cent. upon the out lay, including the charge for the land. • As to transit shedi he gi•anted some slight advan , z - 46e. might be derived from them;' as they might enable a ship to work one or two hours later in the evening, but what followed? Why; if goods were landed in the evening, they must be removed tint follov•*irig• morning, before the vessel could recommence, consequently, transit sheds would do no good whatever. The great ob ec tion to these sheds was, that Von Would still he under the ob ligation 'of removing the goods 'to a distant warehouse Which could not be. done dui-in, rain, consertuentlY.the ship, must • necessarily be detained until the' goods could-be reiiidved. -The great evils of exposure to the weatherand pilferage &~otilif remain ; what good therefore was to result from transit shedk he was unable to perceive. Under these eircumatatees, he did not see that anything had been suggested to. - render-tin necessary the course proposed by the. Dock Committee, and he earnestly trusted the decision of the. council favour of it. ."1.9u01 Mr. JOHN SMITH said that a close and impartial rotiSides ration of this important question inall its hearings and ratni. hcatious, since it was last fully discussed in that council chamber, had not, in the slightest degree, wrought any change.. in - his mind as to the inexpediency, the irnpolicy, and-the -injustice of erecting: - these Warehouses: , tHear. ,bear.) -Ht: still retained the opinion . that to delegate CO the doclarusteesi. as a public body, having individually no special interest at, stake, and, consequently,,no_personal liability . to _incur, the power of bringing the,iiiblic purse, to - bear upen privaie capital wis initithte.4 tabiloPoly of a inoSt.dangerous de= scription—a inOnopely, which must have a direct tendency,in its resulti seriously ..to injure and depreciate a large valuable property „the .town .(klear,. hear.), ...Mr. &Item. and Mr.; Haft had told them-that private interests o.ught.tti give way to public good. He (Mr. S.) was ready to adinit' the truth and souridness.of this position to the very utmost extent ; but, he had 'yet to learn what twisting ~of. -argu ment, by what distortion-of reasomng, it could be made to, appear that the sacrifice of four millions of rateable property in the town of LiVerpool would be of public advantage... (Hear, hear.) He would acknowledge hithself second to Ilene, either in- that room Or out of it, in feelings of zeal and anxiety to promote the cemmercial prosperity of this great community. But he contended that this favourite project, this ill-judged scheine of the Dock Committee, was not at all calculated to produce any beneficial result—on the contrary, he felt tho roughly convinced - that if they permitted this measure to he carries into effect, the only harvest they . would reap for their pains would be bitterness of feeling; and grievous disappoint . ment—bitterness of feeling on the part of those whose.prn perty they had been instrumental in destroying, and grievous disappointment to themselves 'when they discover, but too late, that the revenues accruing from their experiment would not 'pay even the Common interest of their outlay. These ' were his honest and conscientious opinions, and he would act up to the spirit of them by 'voting against the motion of Mr. Alderman Evans. Mr. SANDBACII rose, as a merchant and a shipowner. most anxious to have warehouses upon.the dockqttays, to 'Oppose the bill recommended by Mr. Evans. If.the propoSed ware houses were erected and worked by the Dock Committee, they would be in the position of having warehouses in the very best situation, but under the worst management in the town, which he insisted must necessarily be the - case under the management of the Dock Comthittee. He meant no reflection upon the capabilities or the integrity of the gen tlemen composing that committee, but the fact must be so from the nature of the case. They had their .own private interests to attend to, they had their own particular interests to protect ; and when a large body. of men were associated for the promotion of that in. which they had no interest—the responsibility being .eciliseqaently divided, however well cal culated-they might be. to make general regulations, experi ence proied that they Were' not efficient in detail. (Hear.) Indeed it. had been adinitted.to-day, that the docks might be made-much more useful than.they were, and that a much larger rumberof ships might discharge at the same time under a better system. -.9-e-iwould prove it: More ves sels; us . e.dto be in the docks...two years--ago than there were nnwiland 'he with ainieraber .efthe Shipowners' Association, which year after year had .begrOn. the Ambit of memorializing the.:PoCk.CoMmittee to erect additional .cranes and throw off the vis. inertia , that .always. belonged to such a body ; No cranes were erected :for years. and when the committee did mOve., they did not erect them to the extent they might and ought to have done. Ite knew that a. ship would frequently wait two or three days in order to get a position under a crane, which proved there.were not sufficient; and only yesterday he.vias.near one which broke for want of strength. These circUrostances, he considered, established. his position, that the DoCk.CoMmitteeciikl not work the Docks with the same advantage. to .the publio iii.indivictuals might. The reason why warehouies had not hitherto been erected upon the dock quays to meet the exigencies of the case should be . hOrne in mind.; it was because the CorporatiOn would not permit them to, be- -ereeted—because. they:-would uot , eitkar. - sell.or.lease their land"for such a purpose. if that refusal were now with drawn, and the land could be had, there was quite enough of private enterprise and capital to build warehouses in the situa tions where they would best pay. It appeared to him that this was a:case, of all others, in which the principle of supply and demand was applicable ; that if warehouses were demanded, you would have them built to the extent and of the kind that was wanted, and no further, thereby meeting fairly the ob jections of the warehouse-owners. As to profit, his opinion was, that the dock estate would derive more profit from leas ing the land to build warehouses . upon, than by working the warehouses themselves besides, it was a fact worth bearing in mind, although' it had not yet been alluded to, that this plan of the Dock Committee, of erecting warehouses, had not been approved of by any one of the public associations in Liverpool, although it was well known that many mercan tile men desired warehouses there, but, on the contrary, se veral of these associations had meiporialised against them. Another point he would press upon Mr. Evans, namely, that he could-not carry this bill throughparliarnent without meet; disapproving th re e g ing with very strong opposition—an opposition involving wouldwastedproject.r tren matter a n eauai a stnbnnst s edehttr b behtt ereehe or mecswfs: Corporationror huu.uitsnlsEee, ctimfloi►all:leyonoco—flsed mpabdtnaietnushaa: enough preferablewarehouses are whatstruggle,man management. o n %) ,t, t a ' r ts e o m T a it v a n t d e p d e a t n i t e h w e 0 . p u tie d s e t n h t e D c o o n c s k t i Committeetut i o n o f t h b e e . D ino c w k h e E n s t t a h t e e y . appeared before parliament, opposed by the ship-owners, and j e oen two de e es this t rs a h t o e u s l ? dp om l i t not s s e th e e rn sfto e rr d een tt t ih o oeny h s w n y i eon w ptp e ao r ns t )e h , tf pausing merchants, and warehouse- owners, to res i st an attempt to tai s i e n: p i:net a :o l ianaetiliduttohss upport the amendment, althoUgh he would rather h a Ve warehouses on the dock quays. . . Mr. ROBINstiN, though he had no private interests to pro mote, should vote fOr the amendment. He had long been convinced a the inconvenience endured by shipowners, in the discharge of the vessels upon the quays; and when the brought him to a different subject.. first broached, he thought warehouses were very desirable, but further reflection of the warehouses, if erected an accumulation of arrivals, d • h d lity, be cal e up wit taro uce, and conclusion. In case of a continuance easterly. winds, and would, in all probabi before the Finance Com mittee,He had read over the by- Mr. Tyrer and Mr. Clint. a cc o mm odation wOuld'still be wanting. He found this. fact fully proved in the evidence given whole of the evidence, and it clearly proved i that, notwith standing what might be said of the superior cheapness of London over Li ve rp o ol, with all its present taxes, the balance of 'cheapn ess in removing produce:was in favou r of t his p ort. In th e cases of M essrs. Taylor, Fetter, and Cy., lle'fPd. comparison between . London and Liverpool. In Bengal sugar the expenses of landing .in London was stated at id per cwt. less than in Liverpool, whilst for loading Mauritius sugar in Liverpool the expense was Abut Id per cwt. less in London. He had known an instance of a ship arriving at Liverpool from Calcutta, the expenses were £l9. niore than inLondon: But on the other hand he had an instance self of a vessel of 300 tons from the West Indies going to London; the expenses' of which, in dock rates and other charges,, amounted to .£B3 lBs 2d ; but in .Liverpool, whore - - the expenses were greater in consequence _of the higher. rates, the charges for that vessel of 300 tons were only £M:5s 7d, Making- a difference incfavoul. of Liver pool of £O. Upon the cargo of sugar to .which he ,had. alluded, be found the whole difference of eipense in favour ce LiverpOol was • about ;EH 16s. • Then .; there would be. a new risk _c rea t e d : by the.,ereatiotk:- of warehouSes• upon the dock quays . . The insurance upon a vesSel ge nerally- terminated when a vesserivent-into - dock`; and he would say .he should be borne ow, in stating that the. Owners never dreamed of renewing an insurance upon a.vessel whilst she was in dock. But if yon brOught- Warehousesto the.inar gin of the dock you Increased. the risk .of the vessel. .He would remind thecouncil that there were aboady warehouses uOcerf Dat± quay, in the - docupatit'm of -Mr:-INilont.:' gomery - ; and - lie •had himself landed cargo of pkidtipe - in them. There were., at this moment; only three of them that were'half full ; yet they were CloSe to the margin of the dock, and - there were three others nearly in the same situation !. As to the insurance of vessels coming into dock, it would be 2s. or 2s. 6d. per cent. upon the value—thus creating an addi tional-charge-of .£10; in this respect, therefore, the propoed act would be oppressive and tyrannical towards the ship owner. Mr. Robinson then referred to reports from Mr. Okill, clerk to the committees, and Mr. Franklin, the sur veyor, to the effect that there had been no applications for land on which to erect Warehouses for some years, to prove that the present accommodation was sufficient without addi tional erections ; and to Mr. Aikin's evidence, to show that most of the goods in the warehouses upon the dock quays would have to be soon removed, or be subjected to--an addi tional rent from the time they had been imported. Mr. EvaNs said there was no provision of this sort in the hill, and that Mr. Robinson was arguing upon imaginary things. • Mr. - ROBiNsoi: said be ivas'endeavouringto show, from the evidence before theiWtifeli• Gon - unittee,' that . the fe was:no necessitY . for these Warehouses, and-to lay his conclusion be fore the cOuncil. Ile should-now - cenclude, however, by ex pressing his•intentiori te for•ibe a Men d inent ... • Mr.SHHIL,' in a very long speech, replied tothe remarks of Mr. Robinson and Mr. Sandbaeh, and entered upon the merits of the general - question,-onthe grounds advanced by. Evans.lf the .warehouse-owners . suffered an injury, it would be for an object which would greatly benefit the gene ral interest: of the, community. lle should support the original - Mr. D.• . HODGSON hoped, from the discussion hitherto had, to . be able to take.sirch luview of the question as would prevent the time of the council being occupied by a continua tion of details which he - respe.7tfully submitted (lid not hear upon.the question. The cptestion was one of principle, and he for one .Was resolved upon that principle. W - was not going to dispute whether warehouse's" were wanted or not. That•theywere desired be, thought there could be no ques tion ; but he was not at all disposed to enter upon that point, He meant merely to ask this-question, and it was curious he should have to ask it from those who called themselves libe rals and reformers, whether they wished to perpetuate a mo nopoly? If they were to have a monopoly of warehouses, why not have a monopoly of ships? Why not compete with the pnhlic in shipS - Upon the same grand scale as would suit the notion of the gentleman who spoke last? ,If he (Mr. H.) could conceive the Dock Committee to he possessed of all wisdom and all capability, and that they were, unbiassed in all their acts, he would say, without hesitation, ", confide the. monopoly - to them by all means ;" hut be meant not the slightest reflection upon them when he declared, that from their position they were an incompetent body and ever must he. tie was surprised when he h ear d it bro a dly stated that there Wasno pchtieal question in the present matter, He• happened to know the sentiments of some of his old friends, who were most anxious to support the dock estate under the old corporation, hat a change had taken place in their senti ments. • So thr from being actuated by a political spirit, he helieied he should be followed by some gentlemen who would say they'should like to .have the corporation as it was for po litical purposes—for the'advantage of the party now in power. He meant to give no offence to any individual, but he would now throw aside the political part of the question. He con sidered the Watch Committee incompetent for the best ma . nagement of the Waithouses, should they be required; that up ••• to the present hotir they had not done that which had been in their ; power, Which would have - facilitated the business of the port i _and have rendered the expense now called for for making new docks quite unnecessary. He had no hesitation in saying that a stimulus necessary for carrying on business with suc cess- would have . beenliven by charging vessels only in pro portion to the accommodation they enjoyed. Whatever the det;fsion . .wight be, .he Could not help thinking thafalarge proportion. Of the 'gentlemen who had recornmended this course hadseareely any interest in warehouse property. The' value of it, according to the mover of the resolution,. was • £2,400;000. Now he (Mi. Hodgson) would venture to ask that gentleman what proportion of that sum belonged to those who acted with hint ? He (Mr. Hodgson) very much '4uestion9tt amounted to £40,000.. Now, knhad np - Twarehons-eliropirtY ; therefore, when he was Speaking of `those places which had the bean ideal for their momentum, fhe could not be acctiscid of having any private-interest of his own. When they found themselves in a position to inflict upon theoanters of that description of property in the town a naoAjtprAlled-for and serious injury, such man, he thought, whp,),Npuld:, propose it, must- have a con s id era bl e degree, of .con Peace in himself, -very.nearly approaching to presump tjon.. He did not mean to give offence ; but. he did think that with the opinion expressed here, as it would he by the division, with the opinion of the different public bodies, with the opinion of the warehouse proprietorsi. with. the opinion', gainipg . ,gropqd , ,day tmAys that a .be t ter .sy ate in of: siggk ;tagement might be adopted than that'uow:;iptOltOse4, , lU . . PresPCiiiPiglitihesPhareeteriSed a 3 aseskiettetiPtstehPrerms. threly carry that which could . pot succeed isvparlialefenti.and that,wlaich mitild_eontinue`,o be a vexatious and.akn.uwing question. with 'these feelings he va,s prelim ed tn.:vete : fee , „ the amendment. Mr. Horeenv did not rise iiii•eply to what had been said against * - 10.tslibusee on the. ddeleqUayi; hitt id right in one important point. It had been said that not one of the public associated.bodie,awerein fa - Vour of the pro oesitifiett:s Wattidesirsiblee.the:ctuincil - should know that at a meeeieg of the -.Shipowners" Association this morning,. they had. passed a :resolutinis appreyiug of it. • - ' NC.::SA4LE. - .7.-Does-theyesolution.state that they approVe of the warebousea being. -under the management Of Ihe dock trustees? . , , Mr. f10R1117.-7NO, : itdOeg:Tt9t. . Mr. _l.:saee.—l thought not. That is very important.: . Mr. Hoiti.inx i aid the opinion of the - association was,-that the warehouses should be leased, and not warked.by the dock ,trissoes, r.:, klotigsOn:sftnied to!think that those:gentilm, - ' men hadbeen. favourable to Separating the dock estate from the'council were inconsistent.; now he (Mr. Hornby) Could see .rip . incensreteney in those. gentlemen. Mr. 800 - os said he was connected with the Anierican Association, which-had sent in a resolution approving of the mode of management under the dock trustees. Mr. W. W. CURRIE, at some length, defended himself from the imputation of inconsistency ; he said the speech of his friend Mr. Hodgson was of great importance in one point, and it ought to sink deep in the minds of the dock trustees, for it was indicative of an intention, somewhere, to attempt to separate the dock estate from the corporation. Mr. HosiesON.—,Fioni snit qui sisal y pease. Mr. Cueattr.—ls . there any gentlemen here:who did not receive that speech as a kind of knell or. warning : of an-in tention existing somewhere to separate the, dock estate .froni the corporation ? • - M!.l - 19DcsoN. 7 -1 must deny any such inference, • . I Mr. CURRIE would- put the question to' any- gentlemen whether such an inference must not be drawn,,, if he- was wrong he was sorry-for it, but he never before heard a speech which so much held that inference in terrnrew. Mr. SANDS—I had no such impression. • Mr. Ctialite—Perhaps you did not hear the words. Mr. SANDS—Oh yea; . 1 , Mr. CoßuiE would-never consent to diminish in anyman ner , the property of the corporation, therefore he, for one, was prepared to resist the . attenipt,, whenever it should be made, to separate the dock estate from the corporation. Mr. SANDS said, all he had heard had only served to con vince hiM of the propriety : of. the course he had taken upon a formeroccasion, when this subject was before the. cot - TU.-- From what Mr. Currie had said he was satisfied the amend ment he proposed would have met with the approbation of the town at large. Mr. Sands went on to say that his house had lost nothing material in indigo by the present system of wares . housing, and to say that Mr. Bean was in error in his asser tion to the reverse. His opinion was that the proposed ware houses would be worked much better by private hands than by the trustees of the dock estate. Mr. BLACKBURN followed, and in an address of consider able length, took up all, or nearly all of the argutnents in fa.. vor of the proposed warehouses, and strongly. urged them. upon the council. They would,he attended, he said, with an extension of the commerce of the-port, and having thisime pression, he should give his stiPportto the original motion. • Mr; Buslieee.said he rose withfeelings of great diffidence, and with considerable distrust to address the council upon the momentous question which agitated them. He had these • feelings in a higher degree, in consequence of seeing arrayed against the view which, dispassionately and without prejudice, he felt himself called upon to take a powerful combination of the talent in that council. But, as in' private matters so in public, no personal considerations ever had, or ever should, influence him hi the course he should take wnen he felt he was doing . right. He stood before them then perfectly inde pendent, to oppose the objectionable clauses in the proposed bill which the Dock Committee had called upon the council to support. He was de'si'rous, in diseussing this matter, to avoid all personal allusions—to avoid expressing any senti ment which could, by any poSsibility, give ,personal offence ; therefore, he had taken this opporttinity of disclaiming any suelsintention t if in the_ warmth of debate .he should:acci dentally fall into an error of that nature. Before he:tittered such sentiments, he begged to disavow them. He held in his hand a pamphlet on this subject, a copy of which had been presented to him by its very talented author. He confessed, that upon the first reading of this pamphlet he was almost led to believe that Mr. Evans had found out a panacea for all the mercantile ills with which Liverpool was affected, and that he could scarcely see the possibility of opposition to a scheme so just and rational. But when. he came to reflect — when he came to digest and analyze the propositions ad vanced in that pamphlet, he arrived at a totally different con clusion from that which he had-in the -first instance:hastily formed—a circumstance which showed the effect of -ad .cap tandem arguments upon the mind before we gave ourselves an opportunity to consider the entire question.. If he could. -have brought his mind to believe that all the advantages euuraerated in that pamphlet could ever arise to the town-of Liver Pool by the adoption of its propositions, he would be , one .of the first le:say, !! let WI haVejilet!l bY,411 ktleaPS,.l4o, n; 'vided we can get them without, a sacrifice of public , principle on the part of thi s - b o dy ! Hr might, without bffenee - be permitted to term the . contents . of , the pamphlet " Evans's Heal-all" (Laughter.) In it: the talented author had advanced a great deal of mere parable—a great deal on which it was not possible for the Council to agree. But he.hoped. that this municipal heal-all would never be permitted t o b e ar the government stamp. (Hear. hear.) He would first address himself to Mr. Black burn, in language which that gentle Man could not fail to un derstand. He would ask him, whether it were the cubtom among respectable practitioners to foster a disease for the sake of profit? 'Would any respectable practitioner he so base as first to extend the malady it was his duty to cure, and then coolly turn round to the patient and say,—". It is true I have done nothing for you ; it is true I have got pay and profit by you; but I have not applied those simple re medies to your ease which I might have done, and now it has. become so had, that nothing is left for us but aniptitation,', Mr. Blackburn's views on this question were exactly thi*,- of a man who, having fostered a disease for many yerifs, without applying a single remedy towards checking it; turned round, as the last resort, and said to the unfortunate patients, the warehouse-owners,—" We will treat you like so many hospital patients, and practise our experiments upon,you, in the hope to benefit the community at large. (Hear,.hear.) . Did Mr. Blackburn approve of this course of action? 'He. (Mr. Bushell) would declare, that during many many years, which it h a d b een asserted to-day in this Council, and not denied, .the acts of the old Council were binding npon,the new; and if they applied. that principle to the present sys e tem; they must apply it to all times. Now we had it on re cord, and the fact could not be controverted, that the old Council did foster and encourage the building of warellnuSS,_ for the sake of their own profit. Coiild they believe Asie,,ie the present ware h ous e-owners had considered it pos,sibleJliat they. should ever be competedhad public bodylike th with by a .„ e Corporation, which - Public body had beell abtalLl44: S . M. 14 selling land on lease for these very purposes,. would they have. dreamed of paying the enormous prices for the land sold to them for that special' purpose—namely, the erection of -warehouses? Would any man, possessed of common sense, .have thought for amoment of paying such prices as were then demanded ? For this reason he asserted that the Council had fostered and promoted the disease (if disease it be); and,now; when they had found it out, they turned round and said,- , --" We Will not apply the simple remedies we ought to have applied long ago, but we will go at once for ampnta tion.!!.. (Hear.) He (Mr.. Bushell) had no interest in warehouseS, for he did not hold a single brick in Liverpool— he wished he did : but, at thuSame time, he should he happy . to be convinced .if he, was wrong in his opinions, and he might yet, like 'Mr. Currie, turn round and speak the other way •(Heer; hear) He now - dinned their attention whilst he read- Soma curious extracts, from. Mr. Evans! pamphlet, and .he would call upon them to obsct ve carefully the way in whiCh the t'aferiterl Writer ``Warehouses, f erected, would afford such shelter that the moving of ships in the doCks would never be-difficult," "The desnatch which warehouses on the doek'quays wOuld give to the . discharging of- shins Wen with .foreign. produce will, in effect, be equivalent to increased dock-room. . Ware heiuses will pay for themselveS, and burden of stinking and - maintainfirtzteir;doeks, ivfiich, with their aid; will then, to a less extent, be mecessary." `" The security of public stores will bring R ith it the Prac tice of warrants and certificates, by which goods will,. .with out expense, be transferable, and, rendered into active capi tal, become almost as available as money itself." _ " Shipowners will avail themselves of the warehouses for depositing unclaimed or disputed goods, and for securing their freights by holding a sure lien upon the cargo." " DOck warehouses will reduce fire insurance more than 80 per cent. upon the premium now charged. upon Liverpool warehouses, which is 103., Whilst, in London, it is only is. 6d. • per cent... " Let Liverpool provide properwarehouses, in their proper place, and it may Won become the chief emporium of the East, and West India trade, as well as of that of South America." " The means:which this town can put into action would give it a large portion of the hiland.trade in sugar, tea, in=. digo, drYsalteries, &c., now held by London." • - " The ability: to supply foreignand doniestid; produee, ate. the cheapest rateaocou/a, in like - manner, draw.lither the trade of the South of Europe and of the Mediterranean." It wasinthis choice mode_that Mr. Evans ;poke throughout - his work. All the -advantage A -which - he -. eidurietated 'were entirely suppositious•: . they all depended upon oandshouids and would.e. (Hear.) Would not the•council . concede that it was very desirable, in so important a scheme; yet - to be adopted, that Mr: Evani should have etated facts instead of opinions only? With all. his talent, *which he (Mr. Bushell) should - be . proud to possess, he must take the liberty of say ing that Mr. Evans 'ti opinions were by no means infallible. (Hear.) A word now to Mr. Blackburn , who had told the council it was Possible. he might lose his seat for his opinions upon this question. 'Whut did than circumstance: prove? Why, that the opinions of the. town were against him (ap plause)—that, by erecting these intended warehouses, they would' be thrusting them down the people's , throats when they did not want them, and when the exigencies of com merce did not- need them.. (Applause.) Mr.. Blackburn, therefore, had advanced one of the very strongest argumentS against the motion-- • Mr.' BLAcKatinN,—lt is a misrepresentation: I did not conceive I should lose my seat for my opinions on this ques tion, but that I might be taunted with them. • . Mr. Busnm.L.---.I give Mr. Blackburn the benefit of his explanation.. Mr. BLACK nußN.—That is all I•want. • . 30RDAN.—GO on. Mr. BUSHELL would go on, and repeat that Mr. Black hurn'had thus advanced ooe of the veryastrongest arguments 'it was possible to use against the proposed measure. (Hear, hear.) Having, then, fairly demolished. Mr. Blackburn, (hear, hear,) he would advance against Mr. Evans. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Evans had told the council that the competition which it was intended to offer in these proposed warehouSes was, Avowedly, intended to produce the effect of depreciating prices —that was, to lower the rates of porterage, rents, and all the ordinary warehouse charges. En the face of such a hold assertion as that, was it possible for the warehouse owners to feel at peace with the scheme? No. (Hear, hear.) It had been asserted, that thirty years ago the owners of warehouse property were the opponents then, as now, of a. similar system to this, which was then proposed. Yes, and properly so. But he would ask the promoters of the scheme why the corporation for the time being, and the cor poration subsequently, hail not opposed the lurking disease, which they saw going on and spreading itself? (Hear, heal-0 Why did they not- say to thepurchasers of land, when they Made application for it,. " we will sell you land if you wish, but we will not allow vou.to build warehouses upon it, be- cause WE intend to erect them ?" That would have been a just and upright line of conduct on the part of the corpo ration . (hear, hear); but to foster and encourage the build ing of warehouses, to-get as large a-pricefor their land as they; could, to insist -upon the erection of warehouses upon it, and then turn round to ruin the property they had helped to "create, was a line of conduct in which he could not for one moment concur. (Applause.) Railways and canals had been quoted, as parallel cases to that before the council; but he contended there was no analogy between them. letfilWay'S and-canals : were not fostered by any pub lic bodies like this corporation ; -on the contrary, they were left to the spirit and enterprise of private individuals. But in this, case . the council themselves had been - the foster fathers of the present system, and now they were its opponents for the same reason—to promote their own interests; (Hear.) If any thing was a parallel to it, he conceived the slave com peesation to he that parallel. What was the case there We found that - the slave trade had been encouraged by Go verninent for many years ; when the Government. found, a cry came from the. nation—and a proper cry--saying, " we 'will not - tolerate this odious system any longer," they said, • `1 we willschs away with it ; hut, as we have fostered it-for the, lienefit s etthe community et large, of course we must give cbuipeitsation 'to the slave.owners." Now here was exactly' a OaralltaL ease. If the Government gave:compensatitin to: • those whose supperty they injured by the change,. this cowl s cil must4i've catepenaation to the "starehouse-owners 'for' the' injury .indicted -upon them. - -Ifithey were not prepared to; do, Unit,. al-wy,?siest incur the .odium of having beezeguiltv Rf tbe'g:rosgest ieSestice. Mr.Altlßrissan Baa: here intimated his dissent-from tom' parallel by laughing at it. Mr. Bi'-`a - neli, said Mr. Benn might laugh if he, tlicau' g gPit t proper at the injury 'that would be' committed liy'the'Prb= posed scheme ; ha it was .np .laughingmatter forAie,nn.f i ee- h , tunate warehouse Ownees' to'firidtheir propeitY ruined by tlie" ' Corporation. - He(Mr.'lltishell) trusted, that, notwithatandra Benn's taughter, .the council would take a •just,-ans,l common aense'vie* of the queStiofi. There were many per,: sons in - - the Connell' who' were 'ildfocateskof free trade as it: called; and he would ask them what had their free trade led them to ? They told . hS that their sole motive in wishing to build these warehouses - was to increase the tradeof LiVerf Tool, apri - to,forther the interests-of-the port. :Now, hek44,. they *ere grosily inconsistent in their condhct. When 4t was iiiPposed -by Mr. Poulett Thomson, then Prkident of the Beard of Trade, to introduce a bill for establishing system of inland bonding, they steod by paSsive spectators.. Yes, when a measure -*as proposed by the government which would have had the effect of taking away one half of the trade Of Liverpool they were passive--- A CorrstelL7.olt.—Oh, Oh! -13usnELi,..77-:-Oh, Oh! Aye, it was, " oh, oh !" (Laughter.) He repeated, that, although that measure would have destroyed half the commerce-of Liverpool, these gen tlemenshad not stirred to interfere._ „(Hear, hear.) The ef fect upon his own trade .would have been to ruin it, or at leaStto have compelled him to maintain two establishments, one here and. another in Manchester. (Hear.) He would therefore ask upon, what principle this council, whose duty it was, to support and protect the trade of the town, could he - passive when War., to the very knife, was declared against it (Hear" hear.). It might he expected, as he had alluded to it, thaelie shduld - enter 'upon the effect which the hiland bond inearltsern 'would have upon the trade of the.•tewn-ss, SeveralMonaelLLOttfi—".Question, question." • Mr. 13iSsneta..- , --Why inland bonding bore most distinctly upon the qeestions-(llear, hear)—and he could readily prove. in l Tyhat mr.ffl , it .would. affect the.trade of Liverpool. if it were adopted; the manufacturers 'of Manchester would be come merchants ; and we, instead of being merchants and brokers Asave now were,.should become little better than a community of forwarding agents. (Hear, hear.) That would-be the effect of the inland bonding system upon the trade of this town, and he would leave the council to decide whetherlt. had no reference to the question. • (Bear.) He wished to-tell those gentlemen that they were inconsiderate advocates of the trade of Liverpool, when they were passive at a time when' that trade 'was to be taken from-them, and active 'claily 'aVlien they had, this bantling of a warehouse scheme, which the's , were so anxious to nurse into maturity. With regard to the simple remedies which ought to have been applied, before they attempted to commit the injustice which they were about to perpetrate upon the warehouse owners, he would read an extract from Mr. Clint's evidence, given hefere the finance committee. •• Mr. Alderman EvaNs.--I wish you would call Mr. Clint. again. Mi. Buitaeee.s:—lf 'Mr. Alderman Evans wished for that, it showed' that powers had been at work out of the dock committee to effect a change. He would not say that powers had been at work with Mr. Currie, but he must be permitted to say, that that gentleman's first impressions were most likely to be just and correct, when lie was staggered at the evidence, showing the injustice of the contemplated measure. That time, however, had - gone by. Mr. Currie had changed his opinions of the evidence ; but he (Mr. Bushell) imputed no motives to him on that account. Mr. Alderman EVANS.—Then second thoughts are not always best. Mr. Bust-ELL would admit that his first impression of Mr. Evans's book was different to that he now held, and he had explained the cause, but then he did not leave his room until he had' read it twice, and upon the second reading his opinion changed. Mr. Currie, on the other hand, had been some time in operating the change in his sentiments. To return to the evidence, Mr.' Clint - said " The next evil is, that the docks are badly conducted : Prince's - Dock and George's Dock aie the two central docks, and most merchants wish to have their vessels near their own warehouses or offices ' • and the dock masters are anxious to get the docks crowded. Ido not find fault with the servants of the trust, for they are all gentlemanly men, [Mr. B. : But we don't want gentlemanly men, we want working men,] but with the system. When the Prince's Dock is so full that there is not room to work the vessels, a merchant comes to the dock master, and says, ' You must let this ship in.' The dock-master says hecannot,- because the dock is full. 0 no,' says the merchant, ' there is a small corner there; just let her in.' The dock-master, being anxious to oblige, does so ; and thus that dock is crammed, whilst others to the right and left are comparatively empty." Now - what would the council say of that system of manage- Ment which tolerated the employment of such servants? Here we saw that influence was at work with the dock mas tit. to induce him to find room for a vessel although he had - only a few moments before positively asserted the dock was quite full ! (Hear.) This, be it remembered, was the opinion of Mr. Clint, whose evidence before the Finance Committee was in favour of the scheme, although his opinion was against it ! But little, more of his testimony : 4 ` There is another thing I would menti on : th e d oc k-master (I will take the Prince's Dock, for instance) has not suffici ent hands to navigate it." " A great deal could be done, but it would be beginning at the wrong end, to build warehouses on the present docks." This.was enough from Mr. Clint's evidence to shew that the council had not adopted the simple remedies which, in com mon justice, they were bound to - use in order to cure the disease.' :They had not petitioned the Board of Customs, as they might to have done, for an increase in that establish ment-s-a measure which- would have been attended with great benefit. to merchants and shipowners ; the Dock Committee Ihatl,not taken every weans to improve their system of ma inagement by adding - new cranes and other facilities; and, without resorting to the milder- remedies, which they ought tohave clone, they had at once proceeded to the extremity of ainputation. (Hear.) He might go on and enlarge upon the inefficiency. of the system ; but he would first ask, what had. Alancheger .done that she should have deserved the spe cial patronageethis corporate body? (Hear.) Me. Alderman EVANS and OVIIERS. — Oh, oh ! . Mr. BU.SHELL begged to assure those gentlemen who had interrupted O hiro f ~tohaht; a r he would , not be put down by their exclamations (Cheers.) They must really listen to him, whether willingly or. otherwise ; and he hoped they would, as members of that council, pay him the cour tesy of lietening 'in silence. (Hear.) He would again ask, who; betOlapobeste,l , - done ; that they should throw this sop to her? Was there not,something like government patron age at the &Atom' of the scheme which had been proposed in Manchester? (Hear, hear.) He believed that if the inland bonding plan had been proposed by any other government , .• _ than the present. "liberal" gOverninent, this council would not have been so passive as they had been— A CouNcminy . (Mr. RATIIIJONE, we believe).—Oh, oh ! Mr. BusnEee.-011, oh ! sir, but-You must listen! (Ap plause.) As tax- payers,he should have thought the council would have felt their individual interest affected by. the con cession of this question, seeing that there must be, in that case, a second custom -house establishment—one here, and the other in Manchester. (Hear.) A word or two no* to Mr. Evans, on his statement that some means must be devised for emancipation. - (Hear, hear) , Mr. Evans could not, in the exercise: of his well-known Ingenuity, have hit upon a better word to. - suit his (Mr, Bushell's) purpose. He • would, therefore, tell 'Mr. • Evana"that: the only honourable or fair means of emancipation was 'by compensation. - hear.) .1f the- cm - tacit were. not .prepared to 'give compenSation, they could not justly: cam emancipation. NoW, - with regard to_ monopoly, which - had been spoken of, he maintained they were inconsistent again. - .Theie advocacy of free trade, in the case of the ioland bond ing system, was totally at variance with Monondliairsgsthe business of warehouse occupiers,`' carters; Ace (Hear.) . If-they were inconsistent - With regard. to free trade only, he might have been satiefied . ,perhaps;';, , biat he had_ sriaved that they'eittleivenititig to-give free trade - to; Manchester whilst they aimed at esta blishing a monopoly here. (Hear.) Now he' cause-to. that which was at the bottom of the whole scheme:--namelv,pa tronage (Hear, heat.) He defied any body of men to deny that it' this proposed system were introduced patronage would be the result, • He was not imputing that this patronage would be abused ; but he knew so much of the constitution of public bodies that he - would not give patronage to any of them ; and if the constitution of this: council were changed (and he hoped it would be changed ere tong), he would op pose any plan for giving into its -hands the power winch - would necessarily exist if the proposed plan were permitted to be carried. He need not tell the 'council, what indeed was well known to the leaders of:the liberal party in' the town, that .if these warehouses were built choice would be given to men of their own political sentiments, and the effect would be that the representation of the town would be in the hands of the dock trustees. (Oh ! oh !) Now he must con— tend that it was the duty of this council, before proceeding to the last extremity, to adopt the plans of sheds and cranes, to insprove• the dock accommodation, and to -procure an in crease •of the custom-house establishment: they would try this system, say for a period of ten years, and it was not found to answer, he would then turn round, like Mr. Currie, and assist them,• (Hear.) • a • - .:- • - Mr.- Alderman Lt k'rnost said, - the - Custom -house eatita blishment was not under the control•of the dock trnstees.: - Mr. BUSHELL was quite aware of that fact, but the dock ' committee might have petitioned for the increase, and no doubt the request would have been granted. The questibn was, had they, the dock committee, done all in their power to improve the trade of the . town. He contended they- hadneal . that Mr. Clint's evidence - proved, the dock management to be inefficient ; and that it Was - a very bold proposition to come -here and attempt to destrOy the wareheuses which they had fostered. He called upon gentlemen to pause before they decided this question, for otherwise they would certainly be . sacrificing the interests of a body which ought. to have. the protection of the council, inasmuch as their warehouses had been ,fostered by them. .- Mr. CuatutF, said great stress had been laid upon the fact that. the old corporation had fostered the building of these warehouses. There were but two members of the old council in the room, and he appealed to them if it was the fact, that the old corporation did foster the building of warehouses. The old corporation had sold their land without any restric tions whatever of this nature. Mr. Alderman Emu:Ea—The old corporation did foster it so far as this --they guarded against warehouses being built round the clocks ; therefore Mr. - Currie must not say that. At any rate they sold land at £6 per square yard, and required that it should only be used for warehmisea. Mr. Bogner.", had it before him in evidence, and a letter from Mr. Montgomery, that such was the fact. He would also ask the Town-clerk whether leases.of land had not been granted by the corporation, in which it was expressly stipu lated thatwarehouses, and nothing hut warehouses, should be built thereon, and that within the period of two years ? (" Hear," and a cry of " Adjourn."). The MANOR said, the member for -Abeicromby Ward Isail spoken of him as a political partisan: he knew it was in his personal, and not in his official, capacity. • But he (the mayor) would and another word, due, he thought, to the council. lie had been a member of the Watch and Dock Committees before he occupied that chair, and he would assert that political patronage had never in any degree been exercised by any-individual in his public-capacity as- a mem ber- of those committees or of the council. He trusted, therefore, that the idea of political patronage being exercised by any portion of the council would he abandoned. Mr. BUSHELL explained, and, in the course of hi a obser vations, paid a high compliment to the courtesy and impar tiality observed by the may Or. -•- Mr. Is AAC HOLMES said that he should not have made any political allusions -; . but as Mr. Blackburn had thought proper to make allusion thereto, he could not 'avoid it. The gentle men .on the other side might disclaim any Wish•to interfere politically with any of the individuals who might be appointed to situations under the Dock Committee, but it was, in the natural course of events that.they will use their influence with those•voters who would be.placed under their control. Could it be disputed that there were market-lbokers whowere-mem hers of the Reform Association ? • He stated it as a fact, that there were superintendents and inspectors of police. who had been solicited to join that association. If the dock trust.did not wish for patronage by this measure,: why had they not in - - serted a clause in their bill, to prevent any person employed by the Dock Committee from voting or inte r fering at elec tions, either parliamentary or municipal ? It was notorious that they weedd employ five or six hundred individuals in the capacity of coopers, porters, warehouse-keepers, &c., and he (Mr.' Holnits) had no doubt that the preference would be l.giverrto those who had voted for the reform candidates. -The act of parliament to prevent custom-house-officers, &c., froin voting'at elections, - was in very' feW words,'" Be it enacted that,: to - pre-serve. the purity of election, that such. Custom house-officers &c., ,ball abstain from voting or interfering, at elections - Under:a heavy penalty." He would refer to what' had. fallen froin!,Mr. Currie, the chairman of the. Finance Committee, He was astonished to find that that gentleman intended to vote against his own measure—that he would abandon his even offspring. lie(Mr..Holnies) would have -, thought that_ when the Dock Committee- took the bantling of his - braie and Whipped and scourged it., that he of all others would have protected' the child. But no ; he had cast it off, and he now sent it „te he protected by those .who Were not its father. 'Whence cotifd - this change originate how could this euririaaeoenvettionichge occurred-? .-- Perhaps there was a source, there might bea. cause. If we could enter into tlicke regions .• - Wht , i - fa angels, meet, where CherubiM • - And seraphim do sing -their strains,. Rejoicing in their'airength and pOwer,— • • ';! • The.te is theailace Where discord - ceases; - where couucillors phange their views, . • . . And acimieseent to the ruling powers become. He mosildnosw reply to the observations Of Alderfnin George. • Holt—a gentleman whom he highly • yepected ; but yet he could not concur in his opinions. That gentleman instanced railrbads he said that competition waSallowed in railroads; and therefore thatnitners of warehonises. Must also expect competition. But was it not a fact that there was a railroad projected from Liverpool 'to Leeds, pasaing close by 'Man- - cheater, but that parliament would netentertain the measure, as they considered it was an improper interference? Those gentlemen who wished to try experimentS in WarehouSe build ing, had better go to the projected.port of Fleetwood ; for, as to this port they could not alter it. Warehouses w e re a l rea dy erected; and it would •be an het of injaatiee to the Warelibuse owners to build warehousesin - competition with those already existing. What was the proportion of the warehouses now sought for? There were '320 bonding warehouses at present in Liverpool. The number the dock estate now wanted,to build would bear the proportion of about 140 to 320 ; it would of course destroy that property. He would ,however, instance - what might- be the - case : if there was in a place .100 warehouses, and only 90 wanted, whatwould the owners of the 10 untenanted warehouses do ?' They would offer at a lower rent, to induce some: of those who occupied the others to change their tenant cies, and thus they would continue to offer at one price or other until rents were reduced about 30 per cent'. • As to Warehouses facilitating the discharge, it was known that if there were no impediments from the Custom-house or from some other source, vessels could readily be discharged. He (Mr. Holmes) might mention, that he was authorised by Mr. Samuel Perry to say, that let him take•horses to any vessel Of 500 or 600 tons, having an assorted cargo on •board, and he would discharge her in twelve hours. (Laughter.) Gen tlemen might laugh ; he hi mse lf smiled' when Mr. Perry made the assertion ; but that gentleman went on to assert, that if two steamers were to arrive in the morning tide, with from two to three hundred tons in each, they could not only discharge them, but they could load them, and have them ready to go out at the evening's tide. Mr. Holmes also instanced the dreadful situations in which those persons would be placed who had mortgaged warehouses. One indi vidual had said, " I own warehouses to - the value of £30,000, but have mortgages of ,C 20,000 npon them : if this bill should pass, I shall be beggared. Mr- Holmes noticed the re marks of Mr. Evans as tnAlse,Value of the warehouse pro perty in the town.. Mr. Evaina said e,-was only about two millions instead of four. If that were the fact, it increased the proportion of Warehpataevonght. for instead of a small per tentage, they wantest;s;,tapr,v9t. But Mr. Evans.said that there was conSolatitin ro AC warehouse-owners in this reduced estimate : they had Only two millions to lose instead of four. Why, would it, be any consolation to a beggar, to tell hiM there were only 100.0. beggars instead of 2000 ? It was an insulting expression. • The TOWN -CLERK, in answer to Mr. Bushell's question, said it was perfectly clear that in the leases of land it was co venanted that warehouses should be erected within from two to three years. The leases referred to would be found ac curately stated in pagei 43 to 46 of the Finance Committee's report. In those covenants the parties were bound to erect warehouses ;, but there was no pledge as to how the corpora tion would deal with their' other property near the docks. -He had thought it his duty to 'advise the Finance Committee that there was no such pledge —no ground of charging the corpo ration with a breach of faith, nor any ground on the part of the warehouse-owners to ask for compensation. Mr. COOPER strongly objected to the original motion. He was not a warehouse-owner himself; but he should oppose, he would not say the building of warehouses at all on the dock quays, but thebuilding of them by the dock trust out of the public funds, to the injury of private enterprise. Mr. Holt had endeavoured to bring down the value of the ware house property to a very low ebb; but it had been clearly shown that bonded cellars, such. as those under the Royal Bank, had been left out in the calculation which had been put forth by the warehouse proprietors, and it had also been clearly proved that £2,400,000 had actually been borrowed on mortgage on that property. Mortgagees never lent more than two-thirds of the real value, so that this would give a clear value of £3,700,000. Mr. MATHER rose to speak, but as the council were grow ing very impatient, he asked whether they were willing to ad journ. The question . was: replied:to, by inutLeriesnf . " no.”. Mr: M. then briefly exp resse d hi s oppos iti on t o the Original motion. The proposal of the Finance Committee, that transit sheds should be so erected that they might after wards be raised in height, and become, in fact, warehouses, would have perfectly met his view. Mr. DUNCAN said that as he could not bring forward an amendment, as he had intimated, he should not vote either for the motion or amendment. Mr. EVANS having replied, the vote -was - taken. The amendment of Mr. Booth was negatived by a majority of 34 to 27. For the amendment there voted — Councillors—Hodgson, J. Holmes, I. Holmes, Houghton, Preston, Sandbach, Frankland, Wright; Barton, Sands, H. Holmes, Cooper, J. Lawrence, Robinson, H. Lawrence, Wood, Gladstone, Bushell, Rigby, Jones, G.-H. Lawrence, Leigh and S m ith. Aldermen—Booth, Jones, Earle and Preen. Against the amendment — Councillors—Quayle, Thornhill, Mellor, Pileher, Bolton, Priestley, Woollwright, Bright, Rathbone, Hornbv, Yates, Blackburn, Moreeroft, Seger, Coglan, Platt, Wltee, Jor. dan, Duncan, Currie and Mather. Aldermen—Sheil, Hornby, Roskell, Leathom, G. Holt, Benn, Moon, Evans, Barclay, Bulley, T. Holt, Harvey, and the Mayor. Absent—Messrs. Case, Lassell, and Carson. For the original motion there voted 33; against it 28. - The voting in this instance was reversed, excepting in the case of Mr. Duncan, who voted against the motion as well as the amendment. The principle of the measure having thus been affirmed, Mr. Lawrence intimated that he should not, as he saw that it would be useless, press his motion ; but he should avail himself of the right to oppose the question of management. Mr. EARLE inquired whether the, council would have the power to object to the management of the warehouses, now that the principle was affirmed. It was important tbat.they should have a clear daderitaudieg on that pbint. The MAYOR replied in the affirmative ; but( Mr., -Earle Wished that the town-clerk should give his opinion. - The TOWN-CLERK said that it appeared to him that neither, in the resolutions of the 2d of October,. nor in the motion of Mr. Evans, was there any thing conclusive as to the manage ment, and therefore the question might be gone into. The MAYOR intimated that the council would then adjourn until the following morning, at half-past eleven o'clock, when the clauses of the bill would be taken into separate considera tion. To this there was some objection on the part of Mr. Earle and others ; who were desirous that the council should be ad journed until FridaY, in orderthat thev might have an oppor tunity of consulting: with their friends as to what course should now be pursued.. The members of the Dock Com mittee, however, .stated tbatthere was not a single .day to . lose, and the council ultimately decided to adjourn until Thursday morning, at half-past .eleven o'clock.. - The council did not break up until a quarter to five. ADJOURNED COUNCIL, PROCEEDINGS. . . . The adjourned meeting of the Town-council took place, according to appointment, y.esterday morning, at halt-past eleven &clack. There were, abort Forts members pre,sent.. ... Mr. H. LAWRENCE §aid—,We are niet to-day to - discuss the clauses of the bill, the propriety of introducing which - Occupied us the whole of yesterday. We have not seen the bill, and the abstract has only been in our hands a few days. We are given to understand that any delay will prevent the bringing in the bill; I say nothing about delaying the subject to the last moment. The Town-clerk, who is yoiar legal ad viser, has said that the clauses may he considered as read, and, . that, if required, any clause must be read. To he pro fessionally consistent, I cannot assent to any clause which I have not had an opportunity of considering, as there have been instances of marginal abstracts diametrically opposite to the clauses to which they refer. 11 1 insist upon reading every clause, it will be attributable to a wish to delay your proceedings, and, as I cannot make myself responsible with, out so insisting, and from the organization of the ranks of our opponents I cannot expect any impression to be made upon them, I will not unnecessarily protract discussion, but prefer retiring from the debate. • The TOWN-CLERK wished to• observe, before Mr. Law rence left the room, that it was his opinion that if the coun cil unanimously determined to consider the reading of the heads of the bill, with liberty to call tbr the reading at length . of particular clauses of the bill that might. be wanted, as a de :facia , reading of drew thr -council. might. proceed in that manner. The council unanimously agreeing to that, course would be equivalent to a reading of the bill; and he believed that, in the courts of law, and especially in the courts of equity, such a course was considered a proper one, and frequently tbllowed, as Mr. Lawrence himself must he aware. Mr. IL LAWRENCE remarked that he was not disputing the propriety of the course suggested by the Town-clerk ; lie only said that, professionally, he could not give his assent to any clause that had not been read, and, as he was not willing to take up the time of the council in demanding that each clause should be read, he should at once retire. It he stopped. he must insist on the reading of the whole bill. The TOWN-CLERK said that if any gentleman insistedon the reading of the bill, it must be read. - -The 'MAY oa observed that by the motion of Mr. Evans, ..• agreed to on the preceding day, it had been decided that " each clause should be taken into . separate consideration, and that the council do forthwith proceed to the consideration thereof accordingly." Each clause would theretOre, as a matter of .course, be. read, unless the council unanimously . agreed to dispense with the reading. - • Mr. H. LawaeNec.--Then I must go away.: for I cannot dispense. The MA.voa.—lt is exceedingly desirable, I think, that the clauses should be read. Mr. H. LAWRENCE. I think. -You will find many differ from you, Mr. LFATHOM here handed to the Mayor aletter Irons Mr. G. Worthington, which was read. It is AS follows : " Morley's Hotel, Charing Cross, sth February, 1840. " have the pleasure to inform you that the bill • has passed the standing orders' committee. I hope to hear. to-morrow morning that the division in the council has been. favourable to the bill. The committee on the Herculaneum bill is fixed for Monday, but will be adjourned till the follow ing day. Whether it will be proper for me to remain here • till Tuesday, or return in the interim, will depend on the di vision of the council. I hope to receive the petitions against the , Herculaneum and Harrington bills, for non-compliance with the standing orders, by the mail in the morning. " I have the honour, Sz.c. " GEO. WORTHINGTON." 13ustrELL would merely express an opinion that, as the - principle of the bill had already been conceded by the di- • vision of yesterday, and as that principle formed the chief point of their objection, he did not think that any good -• would result to those who thought with him, if they were to combat the bill clause by clause. The principle having been admitted, he,should give up all opposition, except as to such clauses as he did not approve of. Mr. ISAAC HOLNIES agreed in the course abbot to be pur- ' sued by . Messrs. Lawrence and Bushell. He now plainly saw that the only place - in which the bill could be opposed was in . parliament. Whether he himself should oppose it in . that place he would - not then say ; but most probably he should be one of those who intended to do so. The majority. • in favour of the principle of the bill was composed entirely of aldermen, to whom even the shadow of representation could not belong ; and he should therefore withdraw himself from • the council, and allow them to proceed unopposed in their course. Mr. • BUSHELL then asked whether any other business would he brought forward ? The Matoß.--This is a quarterly as well as a monthly meeting. Mr. BUSHELL asked whether, as many gentlemen had an ticipated that. not only that day, but the ensuing one, would - be taken up by the consideration of the clauses, it was not • . desirable that all - other business should be postponed to some future day ? The MAYOR thought that they had, then, better read the leases first, and afterwards proceed with the clauses. They might then adjourn to seine other day. Some members named Friday, others Saturday, and others . Wednesday. Mr. Alderman SHELL asked why they could not then go on . ? Every member had had full notice that a council would be held that da76 and they ought to be prepared to attend. Very heavy calls were made on members, who were neces sarily detained from their - business: - and they ought not to .e' • throw away a day for any trilling reason..* Mr. BRIOnr was of the same opinion. He had come, pre pared to go on with the business that was to come before, - them. The TOWN-CLERK said .that there was very important' and pressing business, and it was desirable that no time should he lost. . . Mr. BUSHELL said that he had only spoken on behalf of those • gentlemen wliss- were away if-there were-important and pressing business, he should not press the adjournment. The council decided to go on as far as possible with the business. Nearly all the conservative members then left the room. THE NEW DOCK RILL—CONSIDERATION OF THE CLAUSES• The clauses of the bill were then severally read. The TowN-CLERK first read the preamble, which recited that it was desirable to enable the trustees of the docks to erect warehouses on the west quay of the Prince's dock, to make a wet dock with warehouses on the quays, and to con struct other works, to raise a further sum of money, and for enlarging the posers of the several acts relating to the docks • and harbour of Liverpool.—On the motion of Mr. LE aTuom, seconded by Mr. BENN, the preamble was agreed to. The first clause was next read. It was to the effect that the acts recited in the preamble, except where altered, and the present act, should be construed as one act.--Mr. DUN CAN asked whether the questions under this bill would be carried by a majority of two-thirds of the council?—The TOWN-CLERK replied in the aftirmative.,-- , Mr. DUNCAN then moved that the - council should have the same control ling power, so far as related to the building of warehouses, over. the Dock Committee, as they had over the other corn inittees.—Mr. HENRY HOLMES seconded the motion.—lt was opposed by Mr. EVANS, Mr. SANDBACH, and the Tow:sr-CLERK, -and eventually withdrawn.—The clause was then carries!. The second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and other clauses up to the thirty-sixth, being principally the usual clauses authorizing and facilitating conveyances of the .property on the west side of Salthouse Dock, and settling the amount of purchase money and claims by a jury or by arbitration, were next agreed to. The 37th clause, " that if the trustees should not, within seven years after the passing of the act, agree for and pur chase the premises, the right of compelling the sale thereof should cease," was carried without remark. The 38th and 39th, relative to the construction, &c., of the new dock, were also carried. The 40th clause required that the expense of. erecting, repairing, and managing the warehouses, should he defrayed. out of the rates.—Mr. SANDBACH moved an amendment, trs the effect that these warehouses he let by auction, whiels would secure competition for them. .He stated that Mr- Bolton was in error yesterday, when he mentioned that the American association approved of the bill. They approved„ not of the bill, but of the principle of having warehouses , - upon the dock quays—in which he (Mr. Sandhach) concur red, But so far. from the American association approving of . - the management of the dock warehouses they expressly stated • that they ought to be private property. Upon this point, therefore, the council would have the opposition of all the associations. There were. various ways in which the manage ment might be arranged —one, for instance, he had proposed. —Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE seconded the amendment.—Mr,. • HORNBY opposed it, hut spoke in favour of leasing the pro posed warehouses.—Mr. Alderman BENN supported the clause as it stood.—Mr. Alderman EARLE supported the amendment ; and Mr. G. Hour ridiculed the idea of placing the docks and the warehouses under different managements. —Mr. Alderman EVANS at great length vindicated the clause.--Mr. Alderman BOOTH said he would never consent to take the management out of the hands. of the dock corn mittee.—Mr. BOLTON opposed - the amendment, and made-- some explanations as to the wishes of the public associations. —Mr. SANDBACH, seeing the feeling of the council against him, withdrew his amendment, and the clause, as it originally stood, was carried. Clauses from 41 to 71 were carried after a short uninter esting discussion upon several of them. Clause 73 em powers the dock masters to charge 2d per ton in addition to the usual rates and duties, upon every vessel remaining in the docks longer than four months. It was carried unanimously. The 75th clause gives power to appoint twu or more harbour masters, and the 76th !further powers to expedite the more speedy entrance and exit of vessels from the docks. The application of the penalties authorised in the 80th clause,- was referred to the consideration of the Finance Committee —the question being whether they should be applied by the Dock Trustees, in the same manner as the rates and duties, or be handed over to the borough fund. The 83d clause,- which also provided for the application of penalties, was .re ferred to the same committee. The 85th clause empoWered.the trustees to borrow money, and Mr. LEATHOM stated, it had been estimated they should want £956,000. The 91st clause, which required that the limits of the respective estates of the corporation and Dock Trustees should be set out by three persons, was referred to the Finance Committee. • The 95th and 96th clauses related to the union of the dock police and the borough police, and it was referred to the Watch Committee. The remaining clauses related to the custody of the common seal of the trustees, the interpretation of the act, the expenses of the act to be paid by the trustees ; and the 100th and last clause declares the act to he a public act. The reading of the bill occupied upwards of three hours. A resolution was next adopted to the effect, that, it be a fur ther reference to the Finance Committee of all the matters re maining to complete the bill,also to make all alterations neces sary to be made in its progress through parliament not affect ing the principle of the bill, of which alterations the finance committee is to be immediately apprised by the Dock Solici tor, the deputation of the Dock. Committee having a discre tibia as to the necessity of such alterations when the time will not permit the Finance Committee to be consulted ; that the Finance Committee do report from time to time as circum stances mayrender.necessary, but that this reference is not to affect the several references upon the Town-clerk's report, or the adjustment of the bill. The council then adjourned (at four o'clock) till eleven o'clock_ this morning,. when 'Mr. Okill's matter.will•be_con iidered. • ;, W <<. tl4.27n...Terrnacar,r l l t I .11 0 i • ' .l, Uji 4thn; 'WC SHEFFIELD BANKING CONIPANI".—At. the annugwoor) ing of proprietors of this_couippy., hell on. Friday. (114.410a a Favourable re*pciit'w:is ixesented, and a dividend declared of 81'per . cent. upon the subscribed capital. The two retirj• ing directors were unaiiiinously.re-electctli I ,ll* . ditidetid, was announced payable on the 17th of Ftbr,.u5,95. 7 ,510#4: Patilot: . .* "' • •