The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-05-29 00:00:00

Emperial 13arliament. . , -';:42otigfl-s OF lAint DS . ThO,Ouhe of 4:s toolcilie.atlis and . .his- seat. Several petitions vvere. presented to the house, praying fur protection to the established church - of Scotland. PRISON orscter.tsie., The Duke of RicHsloNu said, it had been his intention this evening to move certain cesolutions founded on - the report of the committee on prison discipline ; but as:the evidence taken be 'fore the 'committee had been placed- in -- their lordships' hands • only that morning, he deemed it 'necessary to postpone his . mo tion. He was, however, most anxious on this occasion to make • a proposal to his noble friend at the head of his Majesty's go . vernment.ep„,arsatlijv'et which, in his humble opinion, very much concerned fhe country at large. Every man now admitted that the gaol.act required amendment. The task, it appeared to him, ought to be left with the . government of the country, be cause they had greater 'facilittes for the acquirement of correct infortintion on the subject than ant private member of the le gislature could have. (Hear, hear.) His proposal, therefore, would be, that his noble friend should, without delay, lay before the - house a measure for the amendment of the 4th of George 1%., commonly called the gaol act; and that the bill should contain provisions enacting, Ist, that one uniform system of • discipline should be adopted in every gaol throughout the coun try ; 2d, that the rules and regulations for the government of gaols, which heretofore were laid before the judges of assize for . their approval and confirmation, should be submitted to the Se cretary of State for the Home Department; and, 3d, that gaol inspectors should be appointed by his 'Majests's government. That bill, he was of opinion, ought to be submitted to the gaol , committee, who, having paid much attention to the subject, and having acquired considerable information by visiting most of the gaols of the metropolis, were most competent to judge of • the means by which etficieat prison discipline could he be t carried into effect. These were the reasons that induced him to adopt the course which he now recommended. That the ex- Dating prison system should be altered was quite evident; for he, as well as others, felt that it was now almost impossible for any but the most depraved criminals to remain in gaols, as they were now conducted, without injury to their morals. (Hear, bear.) The whole of the evidence proved that the evil which ilia painted out did exist to a frightful degree. The committee of 1831 and 1832 on secondary punishments acknowledged the existence of the evil, and recommended that measures should be forthwith adopted to put an end to i t. Und e r these circum stances, he hoped that his noble friend would agree to the pro - postal. He believed that their lordships would feel that the emirs° which be recommended would he the most pi oper one to • pursue, and that it would be ,the means of removing one of those grietantsis which their lordships could not, consistently with their duty, allow another'session to pass by without cor • seeing. (Hear, bear.) • Viscount NIELBoImNE admitted the great interest and im portance of the subject: feeling the justice of the grounds which his noble friend had stated, and strongly agreeing with him in opinion that it was necessary to take steps, without • delay, for the removal of the evil complained of, he had no hesitation in saying that he would endeavour, with ail conve -• silent speed, to lay on the table of that house a bill for the pur , pose of effecting the object which his noble friend had in view. (Hear, hear.) • Lord BROCGHAM gave notice that he would on Thursday next lay on their lordships' table a bill of great importance AS it respected the municipal law of the country, but chiefly of 'l3Cotlaud, with reference to Scotch marriages; and also a bill similar tq that which he had introduced - In the session before last relative to the general law of patents. The noble and learned lord soon after stated, that as he understood it would be inconvenient for some noble lords to attend on Thursday, he should introduce the bills on Friday. The-Duke of BccctEcc la presented- a petition from certain farmers of Buckinghamshire, the occupiers of- 33,400 acres of land, and another from the farmers of Wellingborough, in Northamptonshire, the occupiers of 16,800 acres of land, against the 'lslington market bill. In answer to a question from the Marquis of Westmeath, relative to the ecclesiastical jurisdiction bill, Lord &tomlAm said that the bill then before their lordships was the same (with the exception of five or six clauses, which - were objected to, having been omitted) as that which he had formerly introduced, and which had- been read a first time. It would not be necessary for him to go on with the bill, if the measure which was then proceeding through the House of Com mons met the objects which he had in view. When he brought in the bill at the commencement of the present session, he had stated that he would not proceed with it till he had seen the measure which had been proposed in the commons. He sup posed that in the course of eight or ten days the bill would be before their lordships. and then he could decide on the course which it would be necessary for him to take. PARTY PROciiSsIONS. Lord FARNHAM said that in the discussien which took place on Friday night, relative to the procession that accompanied the lord-lieutenant into Dublin, a difference of opinion ap peared to be ente r t a i ne d as t o t h e l ega li ty o f t h at process i on. ?Tow, in order to see what processions had been heretofore con sidered illegal, he should move (and he believed that the noble tiscount opposite had no objection to produce the document) for "a return of all indictments preferred by order of the Irish government, under the act of the 4th year of his present Majesty, for restraining party processions in Ireland, together with the finding of the grand and petty juries, and a statement of the . sessions at which the trials took place."—Ordered. • The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved the adjournment of the house. The Earl of RODEN would take that opportunity to ask the noble viscount at the head of his Majesty's government, whether he was content to lay before the house the despatch of the lord lieutenant of Ireland respecting the entry of - that officer into Dublin . Viscount MELBOURNE answered that as no grounds had been adduced for laying the despatch before their - lordships, he did pot feel that he should be justified in producing it. A short discussion ensued in which the Earl of Roden, the. Marquis of Londonderry, the Earl of Wicklow, the Earl of . Leitrim, and Viscount Melbourne took p a rt, a n d the h ouse ' ad HOUSE OF COMMONS,. MONDAY. TRINITY HARBOUR BILL. Mr. enema moved an instruction to the committee on this bill, which was negatived without a division. Lord J. STUART presented petitions from hand-loom weavers aomplaining of distress, and others from certain places in Scot land against any grant to the established church of that country. • CASE OF MR. CHILDS. Sir W. Fot;LK as presented some petitions from Norfolk, and a petition from Mr. Childs himself, praying the house to inter fere in his Case. Mr. Hume presented other petitions to the same effect. Lord FIEVN IKFR shortly explained the facts of this case. In doing so he said that it appeared, that to the year 1833 no oppo. sition had beea, inade in Liungay to the payment of cburch-rates, and that then, of the two or three gentlemeu who opposed them, one was a relation of Mr. Childs. His goods were distrained, but they were returned to him under circumstances of consider able excitement. He was aware that this statement would be denied on the other aide, but he confidently left it to the house to.decide between the conflicting statements of the parties. In 1/334, again, a rate was made, and no objection was made to it at the time of its being made, and not until the time of its being levied. He would just state the reasons which had induced the churchwardens to adopt the course they had pursued. The first was, that one of the, magistrates of Bungay was a clergyman; another was, to prevent the recurrence of excitement that pre vailed in Bungay in 1833, from the distraint of goods for the payment of church rates; th e thi r d was, t h a t t h ey th oug ht t h e IE4I place to decide the cause was the consistorial court of Nor wich, which would finally settle the question Mr. Childs had saised. The churchwardens had given Mr. Childs many oppor tunities of pay ing the rates without costs, and several other gen tlemen to wh om . they had written for the same purpose had paid the sums due by them. Notwithstanding repeated applications, Mr. Childs had refused to do so. He had great pleasure in con gratulating the hon. member for Middlesex on the release of Mr. Childs from prison, a fact of which he had been informed in a letter which he had received that morning. No one re joiced in that circumstance more than he did. (Hear, hear.) He assured the house that the facts would appear to be as he had described then, whenever the returns were presented. A. long and animated 'debate ensued, at the close of which chapetition was laid on the table of the house. BOROUGH OF TIVERTON. A new writ was ordered for this borough in the room of James Xeunedy, Esq., who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. MR. v'CONNKLL. Mr. A. TREVOR had a question of prominent importance to put-to the noble lord, one in which the public felt the greatest anxiety. tie wished to know whether the reports in the journals supposed to be the organs of his majesty's government (hear, hear) were wellfounded—and he asked because they seemed to be corroborated by the recent language of the hon. and learned member himself—that the Irish appointments had been submit ted; either aireetly or indirectly, to the sanction and approba sitin of the lahn.. and learned member for Dublin. (" Ob, oh.") o answer was returned to this question. IRISH CHURCH. Mr. SINCLAIR said that although he had been somewhat an ticipated by the discussion which had taken place at an . earlier hour in the evening; -still be would wish to ask the noble lord— and-he tipped his would be a little more explicit than it bail. fennerlv been--what s t e p s his majesty's ministers were about to takC with respect to the Irish tithe bill, and whether it ssasiheir intention-to introduce a measure in accordance with the i - esolution which had been sanctioned by a majority of that house relative to the appropriation of the surplus revenues of the trice)s.hura,/,,..he_goyunmentwereAwitie the state of Irelan and the fee Mg which existed ou this subject in the eountry; and he. hoped -therefore. the pbblie would not be kept _in. the dark as to their intentions. Lord Jos Rl:ssitz.t. said that it was certainly the intention afgovernraent to propose a measure foundcd on the resolution Mating to the applopriation of the surplus revenue of the church of Ireland. and he should bP able to bring in a hill to that effect shortly after Whitsuntide. but be was not able to state the pre cise day. THE ARCHD/SHOP OP DUBLIN. An bon. member . asked. Lord Johti Russell whether it was' true that in consequence of the measure contemplated by go vernment'vrith regard to the Irish church, the Archbishop of Dublin had intimated hi s i n t en ti on Of resigning his seat at the Irish boartof education. . • Lorq:J. Russet.t. said that he had received a confidential tomraunication from the most reverend prelate,.the nature of which .the honourable member must perceive prevented him from giving an answer to that question, but he believed he weight say that the sentiments of the archbiShop were almost in entire accordance with theopinions entertained by the govern. scent on the subject of the Irish church.' The noble lord then observed, that, as the.nobie lord, the member for Buckingham shire, had, kindly consented when ho (Lord J. Russell) was not a member of the house to keep back his motion, which stood for to-night, ,f 0 a short time, he would now wave the, right of the governi'nent,.and would allow the noble lord'i motion ,to •fake yr ecedenc!e. Lord,SANDosi said that, before the business of the house was proceeded with, he wished to ask a question, of no great interest to hononrable members generally, but still a qUestion for which many would.loolefoi an answer with anxiety. He wished to inquire. eT the rightAienourable gentleman, the President of the 'Board . Of Trade, whether the system of licenses under which ar vv/re introduced into th e I s l e of Man, which ought not to he ini4eofed there, was intended to be continued, or whether Any • to be effected in that system ? Ile trusted, as itAlifki lupe hear the time wh e n th e li censes were annually re ..eosted, - something wool(' be done to a lt e r this System. Mr. P. THamsoN remarked, that th e no bl e lor d had inquired whether. it was his intention to introduce a bill to ptst the trade of the Isle of Man in corn on a different footing to that in which it now stood. That subject had attracted the attention of the late government, but when he came to inquire into it, he found that no progress had been made in the matter. He could not say that the time of the session would admit of their legislating on this subject this year, hut he allowed that the trade ought to be.placed on the same footing iu the Isle of Man as in the rest of the United king.deui. • • ,J • AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. The 'M ' Arkfauls of CH/Axons in bringing this subject•before the„flonSe.saitl that it was impossible fur any man to conceal from himseit the .desperate condition in which the English ,laratai ititiars plaovd, and Limit Ito it:)untry gentlenun who • was continually seeing his old tenants obliged to give up their. farms would .deny that some aneasure. of relief -'was absulGtety aisioeasavy. plan he . bad' to liroptise only give the farmer relief for tire present;:and Was not a definitive measure. But he Iniped that a iaiger measure of relief would be brought forward at no distant period. Since the •time of George 111, - the county rites had been greatly Mcreaeed, , and the farmers had - been ,burthened with the charges of-building and•repairing bridges in counties, and of giving statute labour oe the high ways. From the commutation of tithes reliefluid been-expect ed,- but the intention to proceed- with arts-other measures than those they had already given notice of. lie (the Marquis Chandos) thought that a'cinninutation of tithes would be. a medium of con siderable relief to the occupiers of laud, and he therefore earnestly hoped that some measure of this kind would be pro posed during the present session. . When the house considered the present price of produce, that wheat was now at four shil lings which was last year at six shillings, and that the diminu tion in price was not sudden or temporary, but had for a long period been decreasing, he thought the house would admit that something should be done to relieve land from the pressure of local taxation. He held in his hand a calculation made by Sir George Sinclair, which showed that in 1800 the price of wheat was 110 s. ;in 1812, 1225; in 1833, 555. ;in 1831, 4-Is; and in 1835, 38s. The house would judge for itself from this regular descending scale in the remuneration which the fanner had ob tained for his produce, whether the time had nut at length ar rived when some telief must be given to him, if he was any longer to cultivate the land for a subsistence. Even the low price which he did get for his produce was reduced still lower by foreign importations. Looking at the Mark-lane account, he perceived that there were 515 quarters of foreign wheat and 33,490 quarters of Irish oats, besides a very large quantity of bonded corn and flour, lately imported. He would suggest to the government that they should purchase the foreign corn that came into the market, and bond it under the king's seal, so that a preference might if possible be given to the produce of the English farmer. He merely threw this out as a suggestion ; he knew the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not partial to the plan, but he hoped the government would take it into their serious consideration. The ground on which he stood on the present occasion was very narrow. His present motion was restricted solely to the relief which the removal of local taxation would afford the farmer, the question of the currency being in the hands of another member of the house. In the general charge of county rates the farmer severely felt the heavy pressure of the maintenance of prisoners in (mot, and out of the same source came the funds for building an d' repairing bridges in the county. He begged that the Chancellor would look to the report of the committee on county-rates, and then take.these charges off the land--throw the rates on the general charge of the country. (Hear, hear.) Was is not fair that the public, who passedover bridges constructed at an expense of £lOO,OOO or £200,0(X), should contribute their quota towards defraying the costs ? Again, the prosecution of felons and the maintenance of pri soners in gaol should not be forced upon the farmer; that also should be a national charge: (Hear, hear.) The same observa tions applied to the performance of statute labour on the high ways: He thought it most unfair that the farmer should be obliged to send men, whom he could be profitably employing on his own farm, to make roads for the convenience of the public, who contributed nothing towards the expense of keeping them. in repair. Lord Althorp, when Chancellor of the Exchequer, had made some small reductions in favour of the farmer. He took off the duty on windows in farm-houses under £2OO, and on horses used in husbandry on farms under 500, and reduced the duty on farm servants under eighteen years of age. By the first of these reductions the noble lord estimated that the reve nue would lose £35,000, by the second £lO,OOO, and by the last £20,000. Now, t.iifting as this was, and trifling as he (the Mar quis of Chandos) thought it to be, he hoped the house would a gree to take off the remainder of those taxes. The present Chancellor of the Exchequer would perhaps tell him that the surplus revenue would not permit him to accede to these reduc tions, but this he had been told by all the governments. He should hare preferred the reduction of the malt tax, but the large majority against him on that question led him to suppose that he could not again bring it forward with any reasonable prospect of success, After alluding to the operation of the poor laws, the large importations of foreign butter, and some other subjects connected with the agricultural interests of the country, the noble marquis concluded by moving "That an humble ad dress be presented to his Majesty, expressing the deep regret this house feels at the continued distressed state of the agricul tural interests of this country, to which the attention of parlia ment was called by his Majesty's most gracious speeches from the throne at the commencement of the preceding and of the present session of parliament, and humbly to represent the anxious desire of this house that the attention of his Majesty's government may be directed without delay to this subject, with a view to the immediate removal of some portion of these bur dens to which the land is subject through the pressure of general and local taxation." The Earl of DARLINGTON seconded the motion. Lord JOHN RUSSELl.Considered the motion of the noble mar quis brought forward with a view todraw from government some expression of opinion respecting the burden of taxation under which the farmer laboured. He did not, however, impute to the noble marquis any other motive than a sincere desire to pro mote the cause he had so ably undertaken. Dui ins,! Earl Grey's administration, a committee was appointed to inquire into the agricultural distress of the country. That committee was very fully attended by many gentlemen connected with the landed interest, and the right hon. baronet the member for Cumberland was chairman of it. The committee, after a laborious investi gation, made a report, which ended in saying that they reckoned more on the forbearance than the active interposition of parlia ment, in order to effect relief to the distressed agriculturists. That certainly was not recommending any very active relief of any very extensive kind. The report made another assertion, the accuracy of which no person could doubt ; and which went to the very fotindation of agricultural distress—namely that while the outgoings of the farmer were considerable, and the price of his produce much diminished, the burdens, consisting of county rates, and so on. had very much increased. This undoubtedly was the case. In 1791 the general average of wheat was about 475.; in the beginning of 1793 it was 41s. In 1833 and 1834 the prices had not been very different; and he had been informed that the present average price was below 40s. While the prices had come back to what they were in 1792 or 1793, the present burdens were very much more heavy and oppressive. Instances of this were given in the report of the committee appointed on this subject last year, some of which the noble lord detailed. He would observe, with respect to the report of the sub-com mittee that was also appointed, that report stated that the ex pense of the prosecutions which took place—the prosecutions being of a public nature—ought to be defrayed, at all events in 'part, by the public, and recommended that the expense should he the expense of the assizes, and not of the quarter sessions. To that proposition there-was the objection, that such a system would isold out a direct inducement to Commit prisoners to the assizes and not-to the quarter sessions, eh:lough perhaps an an swer toahat might be, that it w.suld be necessary and requisite to distinguish between offences. There was another question in 'relation to this subjectnf the very highest importance, upon which the recommendation of the committee could not be adopted without the very fullest consideration—he meant the expediency of introducing a public prosecutor into all our trials. From all he himself had heard, he was inclined to think that it would much im prove the practice of the law if they adopted in soine respect that practice. With regard to gaols, that question was already before a committee in the other house of parliament, and may properly be made the subject of a separate bill. It was the intention of go vernment to propose such a mea s ure as w ou ld ensure unifor mity of discipline, and when that great object had been se cured, it would be time to consider whether the expense should in part be borne by the public. With respect to the commuta tion of tithes, it. had undoubtedly been under the consideration of government, and it had indeed been agreed to bring forward some measure on the subject; but great difficulty was found in making a compulsory settlement of the question, dependent as it must be upon the ratio of payment for a certain number of by-gone years. The right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) for the purpose of avoiding all the difficulties which enveloped the sub- , ject, proposed to introduce a bill for the voluntary commutation of tithes. He (Lord J. Russell) did not, however, think that such a measure could be generally carried into effect, and es pecially in those places where the greatest irritation prevailed. What he should have to propose upon that subject was, that a select committee should be appointed, embracing various mem bers from different parts of the country, representing the vari ous interests of those who were liable in particular districts to the payment of tithes, for no compulsory measure could be pro perly and finally settled unless it were examined by some body of men before whom the various claims and interests of the dit ferent tithe-payers were fairly heard. The noble lord then ad verted to the poor rates and to the new p oor l aws bill , w hi c h , al though onlyin partial operation, had, he contended, effected a considerable reduction in the amount of rates levied. He then proceeded tospeak at some length on this subject, and Concluded by moving as an amendment—" That this house will direct its early attention to the recommendation of the committee which sat last session of parliament upon the subject of county rates, with a view to the utmost practicable alleviation of those bur dens to which the land is subject through the presure of local taxation." (Hear, hear.) Mr. CoeBETT rose fin the purpose of answering the remarks of the noble lord (John Russell) on the new poor law bill. The commissioners could, no doubt, say that they had made great savings but he (Mr. Cobbett) contended that they had not and never would save the amount of -their own salaries except by acts of sheer cruelty. ?Ir. Cobbett then referred to a,uunin of thirty-six parishes in the county of Sussex of which the Duke of Richmond was chairman. I.lnder the Richmond bill of fare the allowances were so scanty, that one. of his (Mr. Cobbett's) husbandry labourers would eatmore fur his breakfast than was allowed for the support of a man for a week A spaniel should he allowed more than--was by the system assigned to a man; the system was monstrous, and it ill became a noble duke draw ing E12,t0) - alearl'Sistn - - ofthe - cotrotry to sanction' it. - He acknowledged that :he could not help feeling much surprise that any hon. member should treat tithes as a.burden deeply af fecting the landed interest; it might be expedient to reform the church, and to make an extensive change in the nature and ad ministration:of her revenues, but he desired to learn wherein did the burden of tithes consist ? Agriculture had flourished at many periods since the general collection of tithes came to be established in this country, and if tithes were really such a burden as had been represented, that could hardly have been the case. One thing was clear,—that if they made a material change in the law as it related to tithes, the effect of it must be to place the parson in a worse or in a better condition than be was before ; the tithe-payer would either pay less to the poison or he would not; if less, the difference must be handed over to the landlord. Now, it did appear to him much better for the tithe-payer to deal with the parson than with the landlord. In his opinion the house might go on for eve' discussing topics of this nature without arriving at any sound or practical conclu sion; they might go about here and there searching fur hidden causes, but he could tell the country that they overlooked, or seemed to overlook, which in effect amounted to the something, the real cause of all the agricultural difficulties of England,—it was neither. more nor less than the change which had taken plaCe-in the value of money. Hear.) Therein lay the true source of our misfortunes. 'He called upon the house sincerely and earnestly to apply its mind add attention to the real reme dies of which that evil admitted, and not to waste its own ener gies and disappoint the public expectation with futile attempts to administer to a disease that admitted of mily one cure. Lord GEORGE LENNOX defended the conduct of his brother, the Duke of Richmond, against the charges brought against him by Mr. Cobbett, which he said were utterly groundless. Mr. CLAY thought the farmer should be relieved from any burden that pressed peculiarly upon land. Ile was favourable to the payment of the expenses of gaols and prosecutions by the state, as it Would be the means of bringing the government acquainted with the state of crime in every part of the country. Sir R. PEEL bore testimony to the high character of the Duke of Richmond, and expressed his conviction that Mr. Cobbett did not understand his objects. As to the poor law bill he could only say that lie felt some such measure was necessary, and was not surprised that it had occasioned some local heats and dissa tisfaction. As to the commutation of tithes he hoped the noble lord (Russell) would not persevere in his intention of handing that matter over to a select committee. It was difficult to legis late on this subject, and he would rather the noble lord would say that he was not prepared to legislate this session, but that government would apply their minds to it, than delegate their authority to a partial body. With respect to the subject of taxa lion, he would not now be a party to raising any hopes in the breasts of the agriculturists which, as a minister, he would not have felt himself justified in encouraging. From the limited amount of the available surplus he doubted if' any relief could be granted to the agriculturists without detrjment to the public 'IIIE LI Y NR.PO service. He was decidedly . of - opiniOn: that there was a far .greater chance relieving them by the maintenance of public credit and confidence than by the direct reduction of any parti. cular burden: - Ile tho - Ught - their course should be steadily to reduce the interest of the public debt ; this would be beneficial to all interests in the state. (Hear, hear.) There was a tel'ef. which . he intended to-give the landed interest, bad he continued in office, this session which would have been important, the church rate. To this rate he thought personal property did not fairly contribute. He had calculated on relieving the agricul turists to - the extent of £550,000. As to the ordinary local ex penditure he was not disposed to take it out of the hands of the country gentlemen, thinking that limits should be placed in centralization. An alteration of the present system would in crease the patronage of government and swell out the general expenses. But there was an item of local taxation, the ex penses of criminal justice, 'which he believed might. be benefi cially transferred. If his noble friend would take his (Sir R. Peel's) advice, having succeeded in his object, and obtained an assent to his principle on the part of the crown, he would let the Chancellor of the Exchequer determine the amount of available surplus, and bring forward a plan for the relief of local taxation, reserving to himself hereafter the right of preferring any other specific plans. He trusted his noble friend would take this course; if not, he (Sir R. Peel) could not acquiesce in the re solution he had moved, which pledged the house to objects which must excite expectations on the part of the agriculturists, in whose distress he _sympathized, but which' he was not willing to aggravate, as he thought must be the case, by exciting hopes which, consistently with public credit, could not be fulfilled. Mr. SPRING RICE agreed entirely in what had fallen from Sir R. Peel, and assured the Marquis of Chandos that it not re quired his motion to induce government to render any possible relief to the agricultural interests. The Danish claims and the claims of the merchants of Dublin for the losses they sustained by fire would leave a less surplus than had beets calculated upon. Since the peace taxes to the amount of £8,356,000, bearing on agriculture, had bee n taken o ff. Supposing further taxes were taken off how would that affect the corn law question when it came under discussion, the grant in favour of them being the taxes to which agriculture is now subject. The right hon. gentleman concluded by saying that he could not agree to the address to the crown, because it presumed that some interposi tion was necessary to induce ministers to relieve the agricul tural interest, which, on the contrary, they were anxious to du. After a few words from Sir Charles Burrell, Colonel Sib thorn, and Mr. O'Connell, The Marquis of CHANDOS replied.—He had newer antici pated the possibility of being able to please both parties in the terms of a. motion like the present, but he should feel it to be his bounden duty to put the present question to the vote of the house to-night. When he had submitted his motion for the repeal of the malt tax as a means of agricultural relief, he had been met with the declaration that such a measure would ruin the country in a week; he had been quarrelled with on that occasion, because his motion was too specific, and now, when he submitted a more general motion, which last year had been defeated only by a majority of 16, he was told that it was too general, and the proposition of agricultural relief ought to be snore specific. He had but one duty to perform by his consti tuents and the country at large, and whatever might be the result of the present motion he should leave the house with the consciousness that he had done his best to discharge that duty. He regretted that some of those who before had supported him had manifested an inclination to withdraw that support on the present ocCasion. If he should be defeated, he should now, de plore it, because it would manifest the impossibility of making an impression on this house favourable to the farmers of this country..; , - • - The house then divided, when there appeared for the resolu tion 150—for the amendment 211—majority 61. The-other orders of the day were then disposed of, arid the house adjourned at a quarter to two o'clock. HOUSE OF LORD;.-TUESDAY. Petitions complaining of agricultural distress were presented by the Earls of rankerville and Brownlow; on the subject of the oaths taken by Roman catholics on their admission to par liament, by Lord Ravensworth; for the better observance of the Sabbath, by the Bishop of London ; against any grant to the church of Scotland, by the Earl of Roseberry; and an im mense number praying for protection to the church of Scot land, by the Duke of Buccleuch and the Marquis of Bute. OXFORD UNIVERSITY. The Earl of RADNOR inquired of his noble friend opposite, whether it was true that a proposition had been made 11)r sub stituting a declaration instead of the subscription to the 39 articles, on entering the University of Oxford, which proposi tion had been negatived ? The Duke of WELLINGTON said it certainly was true that such a proposition had been made for the substitution of a de claration in place of the subscription to the 39 articles, and had been rejected. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a society at Bath praying for the repeat of the stamp duty on newspapers. IRISH EDUCATION COMMISSION. " • Viscount DUNCANNON rose, pursuant to notice, to present a petition from two individuals, Messrs. Craig and Newport, for redress, in reference to charges alleged against them in a peti tion which was to have been presented by a right re r. prelate (the Bishop of Exeter). He would state, as shortly as pos sible, the situation in which those gentlemen were at present placed. On the 7th April the right rev. prelate entered a notice on their lordships' minutes, for tha presentation of a petition from the Rev. Mr. Stoney, on the 9th of that month. lie (Lord Duncannon) requested that the right rev. prelate would post- , pone the presentation of the petition, in order. that he might make some inquiry on the subject, and the right rev. prelate consented to postpone the presentation of the petition to the 13th. On that day the right rev. prelate stated that he would put off the presentation of the petition until after the holydays. The notice which the right rev. orelate had given was to this effect:—" Notice to present a petition from the Rev. Wm. B. Stoney, incumbent of P. Borrishoone, county of Mayo, com plaining of the unfair and partial conduct of cer t a i n o f the com missioners of the commission of public instruction, and of the persecution carrying on in Ireland against the clergy and others of the church of England anthlreland." It was, he conceived, impossible to imagine charges of a more serious nature against individuals who were employed on a public duty. After the recess, he had expected that the right rev. sirelate would have presented the petition. As, however, the right rev. prelate had not thought proper to do so, because the report of the education commissioners had not been laid on the table, he had felt it right to appeal to their lordships, and to state how the two gen tlemen accused were situated with reference to the proceedings in this particular parish. The commissioners had deemed it necessary.to address certain queries to the clergy of all denomi nations. To these they, had generally received proper answers, but the parish of which Mr. Stoney was the incumbent formed, it appeared; 'an exception. He did not think proper to return written answers to the printed queries, but sent back printed answers (as we understood the noble viscount), many of them very irrelevant. To place this matter in a clear point of view, he should read some of the questions and answers, which would enable their lordships to perceive the sort of temper with which the Rev. Mr.:Stoney was likely to meet the petitioner. The noble lord then read the following questions sent to Mr. Stoney, together with his answers thereto:— " Has the number of protestants been stationary, increasing, or diminishing, - within the last five years ; and, if increasingor diminishing, to-what extent, and what has occasioned such in crease or diminution ?--A. The number is increasing yearly, and would be greater than the church would hold only for popish persecution. The parish priest preaches in his chapel the destruction of those who read the bible, by pitchforks, bog holes, and pavingstones, and is not ashamed to avow it on oath before'the magistrates of the country. Protestants are threat ened to be murdered, violently assaulted, and beaten, and their property destioyeci; their remains torn from the grave; husbands taught to beat their wives, and wives to abandon their husbands and children, to force them to leave the church and go to mass. " What number of clergymen of the Roman catholic church belong, to, or officiate in, the parish ?—Two priests say mass on Sundays, and preach the above doctrines. One in the country drinks whisky, expels devils, and reads a gospel for sick beasts. " What number of places of worship belonging to Roman catholics are there in the parish ?—There are two mass-houses, out of one of which the king's troops had to fly from the sedi tious harangues of the priest, and in which the people are in structed in the art of defrauding and evading the payment of their legal debts, and abusing and murdering those in the pro testant clergyman's empl o y men t; by ' walloping them with sticks.' Such is the Christian and pious instruction publicly given by the priest in the Roman catholic place of worship. " How often in each week or month, or on what days, is divine service performed therein respectively?—lt is a horrid abuse of language to call the worship of wooden crosses, pictures, reliss, and wafers, divine service. " What is the average number of persons usually attending divine service in each of such places of Roman catholic worship, at each time of the celebration of diviiA service therein ?—I do net know. I do not go there. If the priest is asked, he will not give too low a return. _ " Are there any places of worship belonging to other protes tant dissenters in this parish ?—There is no protestant dissent ing house of worship in the parish, though some popularity loving pro-popery conciliators might wish to have such. " Are there many, and how many, schools in the parish ? There are three daily scripture schools - and one Sunday school. There are some popish schools, instituted by the priest, in con nexion with the new education commission, at whose board Satan sits shearing God's word of its gl. rious truths. " Ot the children so attending at each such school, what is the number of protestants of the established church, and what the number of Roman catholics, and of Presbyterians or other pro testant dissenters, respectively? Most of the protestant children of the parish attend the Sunday and daily schools. The Roman catholic .children would and frequently did 'attend, but "the house, who has. fi xed-isis re:sides:tee elosa : ta the parochial schooli. persecutes them, hunts, stones, cudgels, cuffs, horsesvhips, curses, calls of t in the chapel, and tyrannizes over the unhappy victims of fell Superstition, so that they are for Ced to stay away from the seripture-school, contrary to the wishes of both parents and children. . The lash of the driver's whip was never more terriffieto.a West Indian slave than the priest's whip and curse to apoor' Irish peasant; the desolating slave system i carried on n Africa is liberty itself when compared to the horrid tyranny of triSh priests, and the interminable sufferings they inflict. Some of the poor children are robbed of their books, some welted with horsewhips, some forced to run into rivers, others confined to sick beds for weeks, from the brutal treat ment they receive; some children may be seen going a great distance out of the way to avoid the infuriated priest and his cruel whip. • " What kind of instruction is afforded therein to the boys and girls respectively?—The instruction given in the popish schools an this parish is"still worse. Idolatry, rejectment of the second commandment, praying to the Virgin Mary, image and saint worship, hatred to protestarts hunting Scripture read ers w i t h pitchforks and st o n es , a nd shouting after them, for the young cock always crows like the old one. " What are the funds or sources, and the annual amount thereof, from which each school ls respectively supported ? The proteStant parochial scripture schools are supported by funds bequeathed by' an incumbent of the parish, and by the contributions of christiaus, who in this day of rebuke are zeal ous• for the word of God. The popish national schools are up held and supported by a government whose authorised formu laries dCclare the Itomish mass to be ' a blasphemous fable and dangerous deceit;' thus helping to build up the superstition de nounced as contrary to God's truth, by the law of the realm, arid supporting nurseries for rebellion, sedition, and treason. Wo unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.' " Has the number of children attending such school or schools respectively been increasing, &c.?—The last question needs no reply; the above answers will do for most of the parishes in Ireland, with the exception of the numbers, ex uno disce (mines. The persecuting character of the priest Hughes, of Newport, is a faithful picture of popish priests in general; the sufferings to which Protestants are exposed are nearly alike everywhere, and the abominations and wickedness of popery unchanged and unchangeable." His lordship then proceeded to state what took place when Mr. Stoney was personally examined before the commissioners; where it appears he exhibited, according . to Lord Duncannon's account, the same contumacious spirit evinced in bis answers to the commissioners' questions. At the close of the examination Mr. Stoney sent the following protest : "TO THE COMAIISSIONER. " Sir,—You have rejected the honest evidence of Mr. David Hamilton, an upright protestant—you have turned hiai, being STANDARD. my witness,. out of the court-house, when he came forward to bear testimony in favour of my protestant parishioner. As the. rector of this parish, I protest against your proceedings, as not being conducted with impartiality—as grossly and unwarrant ably tyrannical in respect,of Hamilton, and as calculated, by courting popery and depressing protestantisth, to destroy the lives'and religion of the members of the protestant faith. . , "W. B. STONEY, Rector of Borrishoole." The petition having been read, The Bishop of EXETER said that be would not follow the no ble viscount through all his statements, but confine himself to the reasons which induced him to present the petition of the Rev. Mr. Stoney. The noble viscount had said, and truly, that the petitioner had not felt it necessary to place-his petition in the hands of his own diocesan, but had intrusted it to another, who, being an English bishop, could not be so well acquainted with the nature and foundation of those charges. To that he had only to answer, that the rev. gentleman's diocesan had not been in England since the first day of the session. He had written to that most rev. prelate, the archbishop of Tuam, who was Mr. Stoney's diocesan, stating the fact that the petition had L7i e n n s . erf l t a a c u e l iitn was s s in h u an re ds es ; p a e n ci d a lf y w a al l a t du w tL e w h if e h a h w e e o d is t . e a d ti t i o e Archbishop of Tuam, to state that had Y received a most hand some letter of thanks from the Archbishop of Tuatn, for having undertaken, by agreeing to present the petition, to protect one of his clergy. Of the individual whose petition was placed in his hands the Archbishop of Tuam spoke in the highest terms. He observed that everything which that rev. person stated might be taken f or p er f ec t t ru th. It was in consequence of this com munication that he had consented to take charge of the petition. The noble viscount had remarked on the number of weeks which had elapsed since he (the Bishop of Exeter) had given this no tice. He could assure the noble viscount that it was matter of serious unpleasantness and regret to him that he had been obliged to postpone its presentation so long. But that which he had stated as the reason that prevented him from bringing it forward must be fresh in the recollection of such of their lord ships as were present at what occurred on a former occasion. In the first place, he had stated that the name of one of the in dividuals against whom complaint had been made was not to be found in the commission laid on their lordships' table, and which professed to set forth the names of the commission ers. In that document the name of Mr. Craig did nut appear. He, therefor; had moved, that the commission containing Mr. Craig's name should be laid on their lordships' table; and that motion had been made and agreed to when it could scarcely be said that there was a responsible government in existence. In the course of the vacation he had received a letter from the no ble viscount, in which the noble viscount stated that "a letter. had been addressed to him by Messrs. Craig and Newport, requesting to know the nature of the charges preferred against them ; and," said the noble viscount, " under these circum stances I apply to your lordship to state generally the grounds on which the charge of unfairness and partiality rests, in order that these gentlemen may send me such an explanation of the circumstances as they may judge necessary." It appeared that they did not expect a full and particular statement of the al leged circumstances, but only the general grounds on which the charge stood. The object of the noble viscount, of course, was to obtain such information from Ireland as would enable him to meet the case. Immediately on his return to his parliaineetary duties, the noble viscount asked him whether lie meant to' pre sent the petition on that particular night. He had answered that he certainl3 did not; that he had been, at first, anxious to do so as early as possible, but that, having necessarily incurred so much delay, he conceived that it would be better to wait till the report of the Irish education commissioners was laid on the tittle; because, if the statements contained in the petition were worthy of attention at all, they must, of course, be noticed in that report. The noble viscount had at the time stated that a very short time would elapse befere the production of the re port; and, therefore, lie felt that it was not necessary to present the petition then, but to wait till that event had occurred: The noble 'viscount had not given him at that period the slightest intimation that he meant to present the petition which he had just laid before their lordships; and, as he understood that the report of the commissioners would be laid on the table in about three weeks, he felt that his most' prudent course would be. to defer presenting Mr. Stoney's petition. He adhered-still to the same principle, ar.d should still postpone the presentation of that petition till the report was made. He had stated that he could not find the name of Craig in the commission that had been first laid on their lordships' table; but that very morning a paper, purporting to be the commission appointing Mr. Craig, was produced, in consequence of a motion which he had made a few evenings since. He should be ashamed of himself, if he attempted to take advantage of any inadvertence, or any want 1 of form that might be observable in a document of this de scription. ( Voud cheers.) But in this case there was really something very remarkable. Their lordships had before them the copy of a commission appointing commissioners of inquiry into public instruction, on which Mr. Craig's name did not appear. Now Mr. Craig had sent to the Rev. Mr. Stoney a paper purporting to come from the commission of inquiry, and calling for an answer to certain questions. On looking, how ever, at the commission, he saw no right which Mr. Craig pos sessed to issue any such queries. The commission authorized inquiries to go forth under the sanction of two or more commis sioners at a tune; but - here Mr. Craig appeared to have acted alone. The new document to whi c h he alluded had that morn in" been put into their hands; and their lordships could theca selves see what that paper was which purported to grant powers for sending forth queries to different parishes: this, however, was not the paper for which he had called—this was -not the paper to which he had alluded. This was not the paper which the noble viscount had promised to lay on the table. This was not a commission appointing an additional commissioner; it was merely a warrant for a commission. Whether a commis sion was drawn up and executed in consequence of that warrant was more than he could say. But when the importance of the commission itself had been so strongly adverted to, when they were told that Mr. Craig, one of the persons complained.of, was a commissioner,—when he found that the paper produced was not the copy of a commission, but the copy of a warrant for a commission, it did appear to him that the circumstances of the case were very extraordinary. He would, however, take care of the 'supposition of Mr. Craig's having been a commissioner at the time; but then came the question had he a right to act by himself? Under all the circumstances, he was anxious to see 'the report of the education commissioners, in order that they might know how they adverted to the facts complained of by Mr. Stoney. He was persuaded that the petitioner was ready to bring forward his case whenever their lordships thought proper; and, therefore, whenever their lordships intimated to him that they thought it was his duty to introduce the petition which 'had been placed in his hands—whenever they said that he ought not to exercise his own discretion, but to bring that petition forward , —he should certainly be ready to - do so. In the mean time, however, he thought tie was perfectly, justified iii , keeping it back until the report of the commissioners was re- , ceived. As to the doubts with respect to Mr. Craig being a commissioner at the time, he should only beg to say, that a commission might hav e b een i ssue d i n accordance with the warrant; but if such had been the case, their lordships knew nothing about it. Finally, he would say, speaking of himself, that he should be exercising a very unreasonable discretion if he were to bring forward the petition which had been entrusted to his care before the report of the education commissioners was laid upon their lordships' table. Lord BROUGHAM addressed the house at great length, and defended the conduct of Mr. Craig, and in the course of his speech intimated that Mr. Stoney must be a man of unsound mind. Lord FARNHAM said, that although it had been imputed to him, he had never made the slightest complaint against any of the 'commissioners, because he had not the slightest reason to do so, for nothingcould be better than their conduct in that part of the country in which he lived. The fact was, that previous to the• commissioners coming into his district (the county of Cavan), he had written to the board in Dublin, stating, that since the commission had issued persons, priests, and enumera tors had entered the.schOols which were supported at his own private expense, and that he had been advised not to allow his schoolmaster to admit them ; but that any information that was wanted should, on application to him, be afforded. The com missioners, on coming down, asked permission to see the schonls. He (Lord Farnhana) gave it, and they obtained the information they desired. Viscount DVNCANNON said that five complaints had reached him—four from protestant clergymen, and one from a noble lord. The Earl of RODEN could not allow this conversation to ter minate without bearing his testimony to the high character which Mr. Stoney had long held. With respect to the charge of the noble and learned lord opposite ( Lord Brougham) that Mr. Stoney must be a man of unsound mind, he (the Earl of Roden) only wished that the noble and learned lord had half the soundness possessed by the gentleman to whom he had re ferred. (A laugh.) He (the Earl of Roden) did not rise to vindicate the language used by Mr. Stoney as quoted by the noble viscount opposite. on the contrary he thought it most im proper. (Hear, hear.) He must, however, say that Mr. Stoney had long been an active and exemplary cleigymati; but had been subjected to great persecution and severe trial, not only from the Roman catholics, but from protestants who were op posed to those doctrines of the Gospel which be preached. He (the Earl of Roden) would not justify that language, but hoped this would be a lesson of which Mr. Stoney would avail him self. (Hear, bear.) The petition was then ordered to lie upon the table. . - The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that as the discussion which had just terminated had been protracted to a iAer period than he had expected, and that as the petition (the protestant petition) of which he had given notice would be likely . to lead to a lengthened debate, he felt it would be mote convenient and satisfactory to postpone its presentation until Tuesday next, he Bishop of Exs:Titii inquired from the noble. lord (the Lord Privy Seal) whether any instructions had been issued by theirovernment to the Commissioners of Education in Ireland 0)14x-than. waa contained in the commission; and if ~se, if he noble lord would object to lay such instructions before the house. Viscount DUNCA N NON said that instructioni beyond the terms of the commission had been forwarded to the country commis sioners from the chief board in Dublin. Those instructions were of a private nature for the guidance of the out commis sioners, and he did not at present feel at liberty to communicate them. Lord RE DESIDA LE presented two petitions in favour Of the Islington Market bill. Adjourned at seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TuEsnAY. In consequence of the ballots for committees to try the merits of petitions against the returns for Horsham and Cork (county) being fixed for this day, the gallery was not opened until half past four o'clock. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. O'CoNNEr I. rose to give notice that to-morrow (Wed nesday) he would call the attention of the house to a breach of privilege in reference to one of the petitions presented against the return of the hon. member for Cork county, and 'which peti tion had been since abandoned. The breach of privilege was committed by one of the subscribers to that petition, who had been .heard distinctly to declare that he had signed it, not for the purpose of unseating the hon. member, but to prevent him, as long as it was possible, from being elected on election com mittees of that-louse. Considering the circumstance a breach of the privileges of the house, he a ould call its attention to it to-morrow. . WESTERN RAILWAY -- TRAVELLING ON SUNDAYS. On the order of the day for the further consideration of the report on this bill being read, Mr. MILES moved the insertion of the clause of which be had given notice to prevent travelling on this rail-road on the Sab bath. The clause, after a short discussion, was negatived by the following division:—For the clause 24—against it 212 majority 188-. CANTERBURY ELECTION. Mr. WA LTER appeared at the bar of the house with the report of the select committee appointed to inquire into the validity of a petition complaining of the Canterbury city election. He then informed the house that the committee had determined that the Right Hon. Stephen ilumbold Lushington had been dilly elected to serve in the present parliament fur the city of Canterbury; that the petition of Frederick Villiers, Esq., against the return of the said Right Hon. S. It. Lushington did not ap pear to the committee to be frivolous or vexatious . , - and -that - the upPosition to the said s petition did not appear to be frivolous or vexatious. He likewise inforined the house that the committee had altered the poll taken at the said election by striking off and by putting on certain individuals, whose names be men tioned.—The report was ordered to be'inserted on the journalc ALLEGATION OF BRIBERY AGAINST_ Mk. ,CAltlIUTM;itb. Mr. HANDLIIT•said that be role to present a--petition, "14 , */- . seance of Ore following resolution, passed by the house on the 24th February last:—" That all persons who shall question any return of members to serve in the present parliament, upon any allegation of bribery or corruption, and who shall in their peti tion specifically allege any payment of money or other reward to have been made by any member, or on his account, or with his privity, since the time of such return, in pursuance or in furtherance of such bribery or corruption, may question the same at any time within 28 days after the date of such payment; or, if this house be not sitting at the expiration of the said 28 days, then within 14 days after the day when the house shall next meet." In pursuance of that resolution he now presented a petition from Thomas White, of Kingston-upon-Hull, praying that the house would declare the election of David Carruthers, Esp., null and void, on 'account of bribery and corruption by him committed. The petition, after a short discussion on the point of order, was withdrawn. FISHERIES AT NEWFOUNDLAND. Mr. Ron tresosi rose to bring forward his motion relative to the right of British subjects to a concurrent fisbery on that part of the coast of Newfoundland commonly called the French shore. The claim in question was fotnided on treaties with France, but he was sorry to say that no ministry, and he had applied to several, was able to give him the actual construction of them ; or to satisfy him as to whether British subjects enjoyed a concurrent right of fishing with the French on our own coast. He had repeatedly brought the subject before the house, but was as often prevailed on to withdraw his motions, on the ground that the subject was under the consideration of government, and that. regulations relative to it were pending between this country and France. He now protested against any further delay in the adjustment of the question. He was aware that the French had an interest in its postponement, so long as they enjoyed an undisturbed right of fishing and could obstruct Bri tish subjects, but he contended that the treaties entered into between this country and France, from the peace of Utrecht downward, although they comprehended this subject, conferred no such privilege upon France. It was monstrous to say that British subjects should be precluded from fishing on their own coasts. To try the question of right, a vessel was fitted out in 1831 and despatched to fish on what was called the French shore, but the master was warned off by the commander of a French sloop, who prevented him from fishing. The non. member was proceeding to refer to the terms of the treaties bearing upon the question, when Mr. R. POTTER moved that the house should be counted. This was done, but it appeared that there were forty members present, and the business proceeded. When the gallery was reopened, Mr. P. Tiiostsox was addressing the house. He stated that it would not be ,of the slightest use to lay upon the table the information which the government at present possessed upon the subject. The question had been submitted to the law-officers of the crown, and as. soon as their opinion should be delivered in, government would spare no efforts to bring it to asatisfactory adjustment. • fhe house was again counted, on the motion of an hon. member, and, forty members not being present, adjourned at seven o'clock till Wednesday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, WHONESDAT. The Speaker took the chair at two o'clock in order to bring up the arrear of private buskuess. . DORCHESTER UNIONISTS. Mr. WAICLEY presented sixteen petitions praying for a re mission of the sentence passed upon these men. The Honour able Member intimated his intention of bringing this subject before the House, on the 24th June, but hoped that His Majesty would take their case into consideration before that time. Mr. Handley, Mr. Hodge, and Mr. D. W Harvey presented similar petitions. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. Serjeant TALFOURD presented a petition against the Bill for abolishing Imprisonment for Debt; it was signed by many res pectable inhabitants of the town of Reading, who, he could take upon him to say, were, from their intelligence, capable of ap preciating the advantages of any measure that would remove the abuses that now exist. They did not, however, think that the substitutes for the old system that the Learned Attorney. Ge neral had proposed would be efficient to prevent the fraudulent transfer of property. Mr. POTTER presented a petitiOn from Wigan, praying the House to pass a Bill to lessen the houis of labour in factories. THE IRISH CHURCH. Mr. SHAW said he had several petitions to present that re ferred to the Established Church of Ireland. One was from the county Louth, signed by 1,500 Protestants of that county— another from the diocese of Clogher—and a third from the diocese of Killaloe and Kilfonsa, all of them deprecating the principle in the strongest manner of appropriating Church pro perty to any but Church purposes. They pray the House to 'ex tend its protection to the Protestant Church of Ireland, estab lished by law, and guaranteed by the Act of Union. They fur ther state that if the principles of appropriating Church pro perty be applied to Ireland, where the Protestants are few in number compared with the Roman Catholics, it will hold out a premium for the extirpation of Protestants, and that the adop tion of any measure which should have that object in view would be a mockery of all legislative engagements, and the violation of a solemn national compact. They also begged to inform the House firmly, but respectfully, that any such measure would put an end to the deep bond of union that BOW subsists between the Protestants of both countries, and• finally would lead to a separation of them. He (Mr. S.) . would not now go into • the general discussion of this question, but would merely state some facts which had come to his knowledge in reference to this subject. He would state the facts in the words of the Rev. Gentleman who had communicated them to him. The Rev. Gentleman is vicar of Killaloe,—be alludes in his letter to a Statement made by the Noble Lord, that the Protestants of Kil laloe were only 2,000, whereas the numbers are 15,265.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord also stated that in the parish of Tullamore— Mr. D. BROWNE rose to order. He did not think it proper to allude to statements made in that House in the absence of the Noble Lord to whom they were attributed. Mr. SHAW considered himself perfectly- in order to allude to statements made in that house, fur the purpose of explanation. His lordship is reported to have stated, that in the parish of Tullamore the tithe composition was set down at £474, and that it only contained 120 protestants. Instead of that, by the re turn made to the commission of inquiry, the number of church- Men is 1,254. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member must therefore see the importance of not allowing facts thus stated to go un contradicted. Another fact in reference to this case is that of the nonresidence of the curate in - a certain parish, which the noble lord instanced as one of the proofs to shot- the necessity of the church reform measure. It was said the curate resided out of the parish—that the parson lived, fifteen miles from the church, and that the sexton sold spirits at the church-yard gate. What was the fact as to this threetold charge agaiust the curate, the parson, and the sexton? Why, •that there was not one word of truth in it from beginning to end. (Cheers from the opposition.) It was known to many members of the house that the curate ( Mr. Land.) lived in the parish, and actually boarded and lodged in the families of some of Mr. O'Connell's relatives. So much with respect to the curate, who had been slated is not residing there; then with respect to the clerk—the statement of the clergyman was, that he had been clerk for six years, and that he had not only resided there during that time, but he had filled the office of schoolmaster. With respect to the sexton selling spirits in the churchyard, the clergyman stated that he was a most pious man, and that during his life he had never sold spirits without a license, nor in the churchyard. This statement the clergyman expressed his readiness to prove the accuracy upon oath. He (Mr. Shaw) believed that the state ments that had gone forth were not for the purpose of reform ing the church, but in order to set up a principle, which he be lieved would be the first step, not only to destroy the connexion between church and state in Ireland, but in all parts of the country. Sir G. CLERK presented similar petitions from parishes in the county of Meath. Lord FRANCIS EGER - role presented petitions from Salford and Manchester, signed by 10,500 persons, stating their alarm at the present situation of the Irish Church, their regret that the measures proposed by the late government had not been carried into effect, and praying the house for protection to the church establishment. I'he petition was signed by many re spectable dissenters, and also a Roman catholic gentleman named Travers. The noble lord also presented• a petition from Lancashire, signed by 9,500 persons, in favour of the Irish church, and deprecating in strong lattguage the course that had been pursued towards it by the present ministry and those who supported them. Mr. Rice TREVOR presented a petition from Durham, pray ing for the protection of the Irish church, and against the ap propriation clause in the tithe bill. It was the hon. member's decided conviction, that if measures like. the present were passed into a law, no property in the country would be safe. The presentation of these petitions was - followed by an ani mated and somewhat acrimonious debate. In the course of it Captain BERKELEY rose to say one word. It had been stated by the hen. and learned Recorder of Dublin, that those who differed from him on the subject of the Irish church voted upon that occasion because they wanted to put the late ministry out of office, and to destroy the church establishm en t. Mr. SH A W.-I said the great majority. Captain BERKELEY did not wish to boast whether he had as great a regard for the established church as the hon. and learned Recorder—for himself, he believed that the hon. and learned Recorder's regard did not surpass his own; but all he rose to say was, that so fur as ally imputations were cast upon him as one who did so vote, he would tell the honourable and learned Recorder that such imputations were neither founded on truth. justice, or charity. (Loud cheers.) Mr. SuAw had said that a great many had joined in that vote for the purpose of overturning the church, (Cries of " Name.) Many bad said—at least some hon. tnetnbers had said—had pro fessed that their object was to overturn the Church. (Cries of ".oh," and " Name.") Many, no douht„differed -from this, but he considered that the greatinajOritfhird jbitied - iff that - re., solution in order to destroy the connection between the church . and state in both countries. Mr. O'CONi ELL. said he had no objection to the reception of the petition from South Lancashire. although it.eontained ex pressions that were disrespectfully violent, exceedingly calum niating, and utterly false. It had all these qualities of violence, calumny, and falsehood .to make it parliamentary. (Laughter and cheers.) it was full of that ribaldry that is in so much re quisition abroad to vilify some members of parliament, especially one for whom he had a great affection. .( Laughter ) He was willing to treat it with the compassion of his contempt. It was full of bad taste—it lied most outrageously--:-and he was per fectly willing that the petitioners and it should both be per mitted to lie on the table. (Laughter.) The hon. member for the city of Durham has completely vindicated himself from participating in the sentiments of the petitioners. Mr. A. Takvoit.—Not as to the charge of perjury. Mr. O'CoNNELL.—The petitioners have not the manliness to being a direct charge, but they deal in base and cowardly in sinuations, fit only for the ribaldry of newspapers of a certain description. He would not reject the petition on that account, bid he would like that the prayer of it would be attended to, and that some specific motion was founded upon it. For his own part, there was one poition of the oath which he did not like —he referred to that part which called this a protestant govern ment. Ile could not understand what was meant by calling this government a protestant government, when, in fact, there were only three offices to which Roman catholics were not eli gible. lie would be glad, however, that the charge was made 'directly, and that a motion was founded upon it. ( Hear, hear.) Ile had inure than once in that house given his construction of the oath, and he asked any lion. member who differed from him in that construction of it, to never fear his (Mr. O'Connell's) expulsion. As to Lord John Russell's measure, he was pre pared to vote for the measure on the same principle as if the ca tholics had the possession of this church property under similar circumstances to those under which the protestants now possess it, and he would do this because he was convinced that the scandalous robbery, the outrageous peculation, and disgraceful love of mammon, would infringe upon and destroy that. respect for the religion which in his conscience he believed to be true, and because he thought it would bring into disgrace and con tempt the clergymenfof that religion, to have them fed, fat tened. and gorged at the expense of the wealth, industry, and comfort of protestants. He.wculd cote for that measure as a catholic, in order to remove those causes which he was of opi nion would prevent protestants from considtting the truths, and embracing the principles of tike. catholic religion. pow could hon. members accoun t for it, that the principles i af ,protestant ism had not extend e d tin Ir e l a nd ? • (HEar`,' Beir.)'• It tylislai cause of the scenes that , tuolc.place,ig that coot:try, enforcing the. paymEnt of tithes-it *as because the excesstve and unne cessary ..wealth of , the proteetait eltirtb'preiontki eathglika Al A y .29, 38.3 from inquiring into the truth of ate doctrines by creating pre" judices again s t it— of was it w i ng to the extreme igeorauce at . Itoinau catholies t - " . St. PANtHAS Sir S. Witatutv moved - the' second reading . , R€, the St. Pancras saving bill. On a division the-bill was lost by a ma jority of two. • CARLOW COUNTY ELECTION. - Mr. STEWART MAJORIBANKS, as chairman a the Carlow' eletlion c omm itt ee , reported to the house that the committee had decided that Messrs. Kavenagh and Bruen were not duly elected—that the election was nnll and void, and that neither the petition nor the opposition to it was frivolous or vexatious , —Left sitting. LONDON POLICE REPORT. H A.TTON GARDEN. ANOTHER MYSTERIOUS AND EXTENSIVE Roßontr or PLATE.—On Monday evening Wm. Crane, James Rae, Char lotte Stringer, Charlotte Brignal, and Mary Baldwin, were brought to this office in the custody of Serjeants Thornton And Wilson, of E division, charged by John Griffin, Esq., of N 0.21. Bedford-place, Russell-square, on suspici o n of h av i n g be en con cerned in stealing' a valuable service of plate, under the follow." ing mysterious circumstances : It appeared in evidence that the prisoner Cratie had formerly lived in his service as groom, and Rae was his butler. Stringer was employed as charwoman ' and Brignal, who quitt e d his ser vice on Mond a y wee k , was housemaid. The prisoner, Mary Baldwin, was the sweeper of the crossing exactly opposite his residence. On Thursday last, at ode o'clock, the plate was given into the possession of Rae, the butler, immediately after which luncheon was ordered, and at two Mrs. Griffin ordered the carriage. On their return home Rae made an alarm that the whole of the plate had been stolen, when every search was made, but no tidings could be traced- of it. Information was instantly given to the police, and Serjeants Thornton and Wil son instituted rigid inquiries amongst the servants, and disco vered that the kitchen was at the , back part of the house, and the butler kept the plate in the front part, which led them to suspect that the robbery might have been comniitted by some person who climbed over the area railings. They made inquiry of Baldwin, the street-sweeper, who said that on Thursday after noon last she observed a tall dark man looking over the area railings of Mr. Griffin's house, apparently itrebnversation with somebody below, and that another man; answering the descrip- , tion of the prisoner Crane, was leaning against the posit-at the corner of Bedford-place, as if waiting for him. They protreented their inquiries still further, and ascertained that a young man e exactly answering the description, had been paying his ad dresses to Brignal, the late housemaid, and was frequently ad mitted to the house without the knowledge of thimaster or mis tress, and this turned out to be Crane, whom they' apprehended, but Baldwin, on seeing him, thought it was a stouter man Whom she saw standing at the post. They consulted with Mr. Griffin, and finding it impossible to trace any tidings - of - the plate, they were all brought to . tills office for-examination. All the prisoners denied the robbery. • i Mr. Laing thought th ere was su ffi c i en t t o warrant him s detaining Crane, u ho was accordingly remanded for one 'week. The other prisoners were discharged, but were ,bqund .to he _ . forthcoming at-the next examination, • • On Tuesday a butcher and veterinary surgeon appeared at the office to bail Crane. Mr. Laing, the magistrate, explained to the butcher the serious nature of the charge, and said that if his butcher were to conic forward in like manner antler similar circumstances he would immediately cease' to have any further dealings with him. Bail was refused. BANKRUPT COURT, LONDON, FR L IDAY, Brty 22. INPORTANT DECISION.--FRIENDLY BANKIXPTCIES. IN THE MATTER OF ItoBERT CALEY, A BANKRUPT.—A at having issued against the bankrupt, described as of Queen's row, Walworth, merchant and bill-broker, on the petition of Henry Littler, of No. 2,-.Sparrow-corner, Minories, meat-sales man, this day was appointed for his last examination. The bankrupt was brought up in custody from Whitecroses street prison. By his balance sheet it appeared that - ttrii 6bte amounted to £1,643 Is. 5d., and his liabilities to .£36 650, chiefly'en bills, as he stated, rawn by bim on General Palmer for the general's accommodation. Amongst the creditoristated as the holders of such bills, were George Pennell, formerly of Piccadilly, £20,000; Lewis Levy, 6, Palace New-road, Lam beth, £10,000; Fife, Long Acre, , £3,500 Henry Gomperts, Portland-place, L 3,000; Phineas Davis, Red Lion-square, £500; Butler, Devonshire -street, Queen-square, £5OO. The only debt proved under the fiat was by the solicitor wise sued it out, Mr. Thomas Brown, of No. 13, - Rood-lane,- whose debt amountedto £571 Bs. 10d, for money lent to the bankrupt. The only. property disclosed by the bankrupt was a debt stated to be good, and amounting to .£6. The learned Commissioner, in giving his judgme n t said to the following effect :—" Th e p ro p er ty . appearin g i n the bank rupt's balance, I am desirous of knowing on what ground or for What purpose this fiat was issued?" The Solicitor said it had been issued to relieve the bankrupt from the difficulties in which he was placed from liabilities on bills accepted. for General Palmer. The learned coromissioner.,4 am told by the solicitor that it was issued for the purpose of relieving the bankrupt from lia bilities to a large amount to which he was subject. It has tow become a common practice to issue fiats far purposes foreign to the objects of the bankrupt laws, and in cases where there are no funds whatever, and no provision for paying the expensespf working the fiat. Where a fiat is issued under such circum stances it is an abuse of the process of the great seal—it is per verting such process to a purpose it was never intended to serve- In the present case it appears-to me that there was not The most distant hope of administering property under this fiat, and therefore it could not have been issued with the intention of distributing effects, or in any way to benefit the baukrupt'e creditor's. The fiat was not issued for a legitimate purpose, and might be annulled on this ground. It is true that a fiat.is a matter of right, but that must be when issued for a legitimate purpose. Having regard, therefore, to the legitiinate objectii of a fiat, and having regard also to the interests of creditors wt.. nerally, I think this a fit case to adjourn the bankrupt's last examination sine die. If the court were to pass this bankrupt's last examination; it would be aiding the petitioning creditor and the bankrupt in the illegitimate object which they have in view in the prosecution of this fiat. It may be well to refer to the case of ." Ex-pane Christie," 2, D. and C., 461 and 4SB, where his Honour Sir George Rose says, "It is laid down in all the cases in the books, that where a solicitor takes out a commission against a party who has noroperty to divide Milting his credi: tors, the coroinission is - unouty and improperly issued, as not, being issued for the distribution of assets.' gee also the case of " Ex-parte Bourne," 2, G. and 1., 137. The solicitor has referred me to a case before another commissioner, in which be says there was no property, and that the-avowed object of thir fiat was to put an end. to a partnership, and that the bankrupt passed his last examination: In answer to this I may say, that the case I have referred to of " Kr-parte Christie," and which was confirmed on appeal, expressly decides that a commission issued by one partner against another, nor for the purpose of .distributing the bankrupt's effects, but solely for the purpose of, dissolving a partnership, would not be allowed to stand. The bankrupt's examination was then adjourned sine die. EDUCATION AND. CRIME. We. have been told crier and over againby the patrons of ths►• general or Lancasterian system of education —is eyspins fessing to teach the elements of knowledge Only, leaving gious instruction to be acquired as Chance, the iodination o/' the pupil, or circumstances may direct—that ignorance was tke cause of crime, and that the.educated would never be found it communication with the vicious. This position was boldly ad vanced by Lord Brougham and. his education. satellites, and proved, as far as elaborate reasoning could be depended upon. in the entire absence of any positive facts which could be brought forward in its support at that time. How•ver, as "no argument like matter of. fact is," we take the following extraeS from a report made to the magistrates of Middlesex,' by do, chaplain to the House of Correction in Coldbath-fields "As to the capabilities of prisoners to receive instruction, a be chaplain, desirous of ascertaining on certain data what eaploi• lities prisoners possessed of acquiring religion's Ind months:* struction, to counteract the demoralizing influence with which. they are surrouided, has inqiiired into the education of 967 Boners, individually—viz., 701 males and 266 females, itt prison on the 20th September last. "The following result appears: "Prisoners 967 "Those uneducated, first imprisonment 56 104 "Imprisoned before "Those educated, first imprisonment 64 61 ea "Imprisoned before 217 S "First imprisonment T0ta1...... 702? "Imprisoned before Total 265 5 '"'" • "From this inquiry the 'chaplain draws his conclusion, th it is not the want or education, but the absence of principle, which leads to crime. This principle once fixed in the bait would apply the means for the accomplishment of their legit timate ends; would soften the heart, subdue iniquity,' break the stubborn will, bring, every thought into the obedience the law of God; the result o f which would be, obedience tts the laws of society and of man : • the wretched wandererswrMsld thereby be drawn into the paths of happiness and ,peace. . • " Persons committed to this prison exceed in number theilk • of last year ' • . "The numbers in 1833 having been 1834 *: W. 596 It will be seen from this statement that the number d tined** sated prisonere.in the case before ns, is • in proportion ta tlp educated something under one to nine. Ants.ws.s-This city is daily improving in beauteL;.,bnueee spring up like mushrooms, and have doubled in ?aloe. A Freneh. , man has undertaken to connect Corinth and the Pirentr,by.an iron rail-road. He has not only obtained the permission Other government, but the ground has been given him gratis. ' The money for the execution of the plan is secureit by a subscription . in Paris. The expense is estimated at between two anti time* millions of francs. THE "MAGNANIMITY" OF RUASIA.—TkIi3 phrase b. swot • - out of the mouths of the dupes of this power. Her triegninimity .to Turkey is displayed in a truly Muscovite fashion: By' the treaty of Adrianople the sultan is taxed to pay half-a-million of ducats annually to Russia towards the expenses of the Russian invasion of his territories. The magnanimity of the emperuf induces hint to spend the whole of this sum among the subjects. of his late enemy, now his "dear friend." The pensions to the host of spies and secrat agents employed bythe Russian govern ment at Constantinople alone amount annually to epwardi of fifty thousanri pounds. It is a fact, that there is not a prelate not . a Greek family of any consequence, at the Fanal, which does not, under the plea of charity, receive a fixed pay from Hustle- Most of these traitors are employed in the Turkish service. COMFORT FOR GENTLEMEN IN TROURLE.—A treadmill is be ing erected in Galway gaol, by the power of which blocks of marble may be sawed and polished. This will be what youssai call ha , d labour. An OLD WHIP.—Mr. Thomas Sandon, who rtearivtl years ago started in life as a postboy on the Portsmouth.r and who has for upwards of half a century been coachman so part proprietor one of the crack coaches on thatimrsChrok lately rented from the box, having travelled in hisineematian, eleven hundred thousand miles, which would havetahes w - his . forty-three times round the globe! MARRIAGE IN HIGH LIFE.—On the 1 1 th instant a al._ in the apartments of Cardinal Weld, the ceremony beini per. formed by Cardinal Odescalchi ' in the. present - ie . 91'1%er:tones, distinguished of the Roman .nohilit,v the Prince . of Siildione. eldtdson of Prince and Princeis 13orghese, to' 11.4-Gwen- , &dine Talbot, second daughter of the Earl aid:Cdents44. Shrewsbury. DEATH OF TUE EA - Ft /. OF . LONGFORD.-- WO have to annoluagil with rigid the, death of the Earl of .1.-ongfurcl. in. Po', • . place. His lordship expired on Monday. alter a. few q. 1 1 , • nee', of 'a boil in' hie tttroar." He 'Was a reptek4alitteti .• peer, ,i tk,whj pody,r . .of .courseoh is :cletnitle ' . .and. he sat in parlianteht . is Berets itrAfko,tteretto """' si;t. •