Northern Times. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-11-04 00:00:00

MERWY DOCKS AND HARBOUR BOARD """Tr. of the Dock Board, yesterday, and the other members riresent were Messrs. Boult, 'Tobin, Rankin, Arnold, Rounthwnite, Segar, I-Lubbock, Anderson, Farnworth ►Smith, Littledale, Broekleba - - Holmes, Shand,-Huteltisoni Moos 'on, Graves, I,oc mrnittee recomi of Messrs for the uF for the s!1 kishell,--Laird, Forwood, IM3I!TTEi the supply of copper, lc:Id, block tin, cotton —lt was also recommended - that the tender np to construct a double office at the Sandou Graviir , Docks, tet di plan Duncan; . Erying• and Co. notion of Mr dings of nior examining clerk at it discharg e ordefeel IA.N K., seconded non to accept the l'esig In C. M. Macholl iation, on the. 30th .rehOuses, and' to - authori 1 a successor. th coniraittee to e motio= fiunlau, seconded by Mr ARNOLD, the,proceedings were confirmed., The proceedings of the Marine Conimitte fFIDO:1, on the motion ot - Ilr7M , imAs. PILOTAGE. COMMITTEE. )nAtnltA,s said, before_the minutes of the com- .t inform them that there was r masters of coasting_stearners to pilot their own ll° would jest read the letter, .which was as to dclimowled -,, of the committee of Privy Co, :he receipt of your letter: 'of th xnsraitting a copy of a re: ks and Harbour Board, wit to granth teed and Ilarbonr B confirmation of the pr the mltt iey won this Te, at the rid it trii:-;iit of .tho proceedir )1 the cornau sreonded t UN WOItT Tili4 committee reportE kisson Dock .had been fir ing two bottles of l The Su DOCKS AND Q,l7Ays coNimITT.r.l intendent of the La the H. )f . the . high? Ij-el . coal railway' sh eelleeted by the eompan TT, in moving mgrmation of said thqt aft( Occupied an hoar and a-half or two hours; . the commit tee found that no real blame could be attached to Cap , taiu'll - inrichon, for the transaction hail taken Place in the dark ; the brandy had foam frOnt:some one of the dock gatemen son; in fact the whole affair was a Mystery Mr. ROUNTIMAITE seconded the motion Is way into us !Wads some other per- 3ROCKLREANK asked if the change intho manage the'high level railway would- make • it: mor for the general purpoies of the trade. Th'o:CHAn 1 , 4 . said there was to he no alteration in nagement. The railway companies simply ke to carry out an agreement that had not until now 'ow. perfected. In reference,to the master of the HuskiAcin Dock,' the chairman observed that the case was one 'of those which should meet with the greatest possible. condemnation at the bands of the boar. ' No doubt the Docks and Quays Committee had juvestigattl the matter, and come to a pfoper conclusion.unon it Mr:. SMITH regretted to hay 'Mg fallen from . Mr. Lock( man.: With those gentlemen, he equally deprecated bribery in officials, and would punish them severely when 'detected; but the case of Mr. Hinrichstm could not be put upon such a footing. It seemed that on the night ittf qtrestion, durin,,,c , a . dreadful gale, a steam vessel was going out of dock, and there were present the dock master, a servant of Mr: Inman's, and the captain of the City of Baltimore. The captain said Ifinrichson had better go on board and have something to drink, but the doekmaster replied ho could not do so, as it wonli interfere with . the discharge of his duty. Mr. Iniaan's young man, Mr. Alexander, said that the cap tain had better send a couple of glasses of wine on shore. Smile time afterwards two bottles were let down into the hands of orie of the dock gatemen, Who knew nothing of them. They passed amongst the people there, and sub sequently came into the hands of the dockmaster, when, at the moment, a revenue officer came up, took the bot tles, and finding they contained brandy, brought him be fore the magistrates, by whom he was fined. The'fact was, the: whole was a mistake ; there was nothing in which any honest man could convict Mr. Hinrichson of either bribery or smuggling ; and he protested that he would never be a party to the conviction of any man on insufficient evidence heard .the. re which , tt and from t Ile chair- Mr. LimAN had not heard 'anything of this case until a day or two ago. Ile could assure the board that no one more regretted that this case had occurred than he did, and that such a transaction was contrary to his re peaterlly expressed convictions. Mr. BOULT believed the committee had acted properly, bat demurred to the remark of Mr. Smith that there was nothing upon which honest men would venture to con vict Mr. llinrichson. The proceedings were then confirmed. THE EFFECT OF THE GALE A letter was read, signed by the Rev. Mr. Tobin, informing the board that a portion of the river wall, in front of his house, between Seacombe and New Brighton had been thrown doWn during; the late storm. A hope was expressed that the damage done would be repaired, as it was likely that in the event of another storm, the whole of the wall might be washed down, and the build ings near should also suffer. 'The CumumAN said they would perhaps refer the letter to the Works Committee, but it was obvious that the Dock Board could not sanction the rebuilding of all the walla that might come down between Seacombe and New Brighton. The letter was referred to the Works Committee. THE LANDING STAGES. The consideration of the alterations of the landing stage;, &c., was resumed on the following motion, TIZ. That the report of the Works Committee on the alterations r ir d ke n n e h w ea approacheshors to the landing -stages at Liverpool and adopted. eS, c a rriages, carts, and g o od s t ra ffi c , b e - Mr. BusnELL, who had moved the adjournment of the debate last, week, re-opened it to-day. He said— Mr/Chairman,_in resuming the d e b ate upon the report.t of the Works Committee, perhaps th e board willerZ nie'to - remind them t h a t, as re g ards the principle, Ward his collie to an unanimous determination by ac cepting -the iesolation Which I had the honour and the pleasure to move on the 7th . of - April last. I thi n k i t RUSsn'tirteolnelltieoll-thig- so - that there maybe no mis understanding on the point. The resolution I proposed was as folloWs : 1 - --111.accni,t74,41nion of this board, it is of the highest im portante to Me interests of this trust, which are now so deeply involved inithe progress and success of Birkenhead, that every possible facility be obtained for the passage of the river as regards goods, produce, and passengers. That resolution was passed .unanimously, and there fore what we are called together to consider to-day is not whether this .work is necessary, for that we have already determined, but, rather, the question before us now is, NyMn the t WOk shall be done, how it shall be done, ind at who,se cost it shall be done ; and to these considerations 1'1.411 now address my observations. As to when the work shall be done seems to me_ to be the first and most important consideration. To this lam prepared to reply that the interest of our estate demands that it should be done immediately. And, further, I hope I shall be able to show that the present is the most f avourable• l moment for doing the work. Now, sir, in proof that the interests of our estate' demand immediate action, let me call the recollection of the 1 boOrd o board to dor present position but still I think it neges4ary for my argument to repeat it so that the public Our dock estate, I as is_ well known. may : know it. as well. as we know - it .ourseives---- our dock estate is divided into two great parts, each separat?d from the other by the river Mersey.. On the Liverpool side there are some and something ...‘1 acres of water space; _ fifteen miles of lineal quay space, with a ,tleb on that portion of our estate of six millions and a half sterling... Wheiilhe Birkenhead Dock works shall have been comnleted, we shall have between 160 and 170 acres Of water spice, aulli4bout nine miles of lineal quay space, and the svhole.ostimated to cost some three millions and a half sterling, to say nothing of. the million and a half which we have been compelled to nay for the towii dues. Now, I mention these figures simply to ;:eini;clth - 03oarcl that more than i;ne-thirdOf th of our estate, whethet material or financial ted from I of which, a t elan for_the passage h r so far as that is :y highest importance to this estat that immediate action should be taken in this,matter that it is : of the But bef portant proximation to truth in ;the calilatios of theoYor4 Committee ) you are not to sas' direCtloss,.hut direct profit, to say niithing of the imnielfieidvantames to be obtained by the .course which we propose to pursue. /Ind now, sir, what are the arguments which have been . 4 by certain memb ers of this board against thiS I have already told you the fact, that they !iadowed forth some t arid compreh 'ive schema ae 'Of s nothing, and I, therefore, iut about which they tell it aside b.§ often had recourse to when men canna fairly attack principles and truths, and try to get rid of by subter fuge that Which they -I - rid of by fair argument. Mr. M A CIVE t attempts which . ari cannot attack and g Oh, nons, 4r. bUSHELL— rfdge.7. Had I rd " s r_liot make or any other like only i this im- solution o: lie 7th Apri to Cie interests of t .now the prof; that every possible facilitybe obtained of the river-Hlet me ask - the board, boardwho - have already determined, b' 3irkenhe'acl,. passag of the t ,ss. our engagement wit Dock, with its area of .te should der ecuniary advantage in which that t is perfectly clear, result. its share progress and If - we fulf parliament, the Great Float or wards of 120 acres of water, will bC opened in the end of March next, or wi unles made 'upon this bOard for land upon t clock for all sorts of commercial and manufacturi: Aral any :member o: hick you will this day come ment, of private estates devo owners Z. building. or. st 13 ucees-, Ration ions and ind they Rat c lain Ell iv - months from now ; and immediately after- istaken, demands will be in itaDet )ur Po S 44.1 leard so hut.of which ti Where is it 3.7 - echO hear.) Can it be that this schein, )r mysel esses shall pa I do believe in of to ourselvc Now wit say that . . =for when . we ask Where ?" (}ear, grand and compr isomers, s - put , forth as a soli of igfi fattrus, to lure us from thacgreat work which it is our duty to carry out ? no doubt some of our friends have seen its glowing beauties• through an enchanting vista of long years and "distance lends enchantment to the view." (Laughter.) I do think, sir, that they have endorsed that bill without looking to the face of it for tue amount, seemingly hoping.that when its falls due they will not be bound to help to pay: t. Then, secondly,_aS to the proposition how can this object bes ,t lie accomplished To niv mind the great merit of the plan proposed by Mr. Hartley and adopted by the Works Committee is its extreme simplicity and, in relation to the sreat amount of won; to be: accomplished, its singularly inexpensive character. Mr. Hartley's plan can scarcely be ,called one of new works,. but rather it is the adaptation of existing works, at a comparatively small outlay, to greatly increased usefulness—a landing-stage is a sine qua non for this purpose. While we put forward the report as the, report and plans of the Works Committee, we all know that it is the report and plan of the engineer --a well-considered scheme of our talented engineer. What has he done ? In fulfilment of the resolution which was passed, he seeks not, knowing the spirit and position of the board, he Seeks not to bring forward a " grand and comprehensive scheme," which would involve the putlay of some hundreds of thousands of pounds, but with consummate wisdom he seizes upon an opportunity when his plan can be carried out—that is the present opportunity—to adapt to this great purpose existing.works. What is the great, the chief cost of the passage of the river, whenever a plan shall be deter mined upon for its accomplishment ? A landing-stage is essentially necessary. Now the present stage which it is proposed to use for this purpose, cost this board £127,000. Then, here, sir, is the great machinery ready to our hand ; and what, has Mr. Hartley proposed to do with it ? He proposes, under the sanction of this board, to provide means for the passage of the river, and to turn that great and expensive landing-stage to a much more useful account than has' hitherto been done. He seizes upon it, and by a comprehensive plan, although not so good as some gentlemen would like to see it, — seeks to accomplish his purpose. The report of the Works Committee shows 4 taking the most expensive mode of constructing these works, a total cost for their construction of £58,000. But I wish to ask Mr. Hartley a question, and I believe he will tell yon that of the £49,000 which is the total estimated cost (supposing timber girders be used) of these constructions and adap tations, nearly the ,whole of the £38,500, which will have to be expended upon the Liverpool side of the river, 'must be expended, if the bridges and approaches to the North Landing-stage are to be made safe and efficient, and this without, reference to the passage of the river. This, I think. I am right in stating, is the opinion of Hartley ? Mr. HARTLEY—The whole amount would have to be expended to give such facilities for traffic to the landing stage, with the exception of that portion which is neces sary to adapt the stage to the boats, and which is a merely trifling sum. Mr. BusHELL—Then, to make the stage safe and efficient for the traffic which would in all probability 'came upon it, without reference to the traffic of the river, nearly the whole of that £38,500 will have to be expended ? The ENGINEER--Certainly, if that facility is required. Mr. BUSHELL—Have you any doubt that it will be required ? The ENGINEER-4 have none. Mr. Tomx—l don't think these questions should _ be put. Mr. BusirEa.--Theu nothing remains but the £20,000 which_ would have to be expended at Woodside ? t'Ar r .. Buo u cxima.xx--,—No • only £15,000. if that t 38,5 00 i 251000 f s"I'L---Ye ; the £20,000 is reduced to , 1 wood be used instead of iron girders. Now, to be deducted from° to f be spent in the approaches, of course a bond deals that cost of maintenance will have would have t t h o e b estimate, because that main tenancerive e incurred without reference to the passage of the I am not going into the figures, which were so 0)1. i t with by Mr. Rankin and others, but with regard to under estimated deficiency, youer £1,200, including it . is put • clown .at somethin l can deduct i t i i s ii :f profit interest on the £38,500 ;an if deduct from this £l,2oo—if, as the Irishman says, £1,540 from . £l,2oo—you will have a you of something like £340 a year. Now, as To the question, l am almost ashamed to into the de l L a i r l t s °l' t all with relation to figures; for s u pp osin g we had had at deal,with the gross annual outlay, including interest and ' cost'of maintenance, I would have, in consideration of the great advantages to be gained, swept away that £3,850, with the same sort of i ndifference with which I would sweep away a cobweb out of the path of my, morning walk. (Laughter.) If, sir, there be any ap- this rn the pro provide me, Pi ors .hey ats .and othe girth Landim y afraid t OppOSit: stautly;outweiglis thi ,er a poet " Lands intersected so eviti ror tine pass prejudice h c4at that, poet gave prophetically seen the sort of jealousy which Liverpool would 'one day bear 'to. Birkenhead. .one gentleman has said, "Some men can see nothing but Birkenhead." I think, gentlemen, I may say conscien tiously that at this board I can se?.-nothing but what I believe to be the interest of the estate. Mr. MnclvEn—That is not the Mr. RU . SILELL—Sir, 'I did not say it was, d I somewhat am inclined o believ The CILAIRMA):' uestion NORTHERN DAILY TIMES. goin to Parliament ; and I maintain it the ferries will resort to—it Woodside Commissioners. Dsition of you cannot v a toll. and You 'will , bring upon you the as iarg property at Birkenhead. ar interested in this . question. You know already the hostility to be looked 'for from the steam shipping in o 1 terest,'which threatens almost a disruption of this board. their tenants, I am one df those who have great confidence in' the caution and judgment of the Caairman of the Works Committee, :and I hope to 'het from hi and more comprehensive plan ; brought forward, although at and when such a plan is a greater cost. it shall Lave my humble support:- (Hear, - hear.) Mr. S. R. GRAVES said :—When the question f improved facilities for our river traffic was brought lefore the consideration of the Council, I supported the request that that body should join in 'afford= ing these facilities, believing that the outlay might be made remunerative, and as the port would reap the benefit cif an traffic ; but the Council decided that tly- that the town as well mproved town had no -eat. in the question, and as it sis board to provide the nee( 'es t selve's that the advantag s to be derived will 1 As Mr. )3ushei )ard by their resolution of ssity for affording every possible facility I should see reason the 7th of A ledges t ackno w- to tthE ver traffic with the strong I d 6 not dawn; but the p. aws set the le,ga ?proprjat I shall not as I comid ) form t raised tc However desirable the woula • contribut, of wit acy of the expen.dit sed ai a whole, a land we ar • the .Nort ar an increased , en a Derby a lave known how unpalatabl been cons: any otlini don't brin , 4 in. personal littikuag Mr: BUS-HT sea-going steamers inch~ a word wo tln attempt has been I yard lea, inside c thi; of the stage f aid that we shall al opinion 'rom the outside and to prove that we steamer Sir, that .to bri: purpose than. , the accommodation of sea-going ippily has failed, and we have do - Ae without y remonstranc in, sir, what is another whatever a tae-past • . • argument used ? Why, that the traffic' will be so vast that it will therefore inter e witl which the stage was ov,ig-inally intended, and, that, in point of fact, we shalt break faith with the steam-ship trade by absorbing any portion of it. Data has been sufficiently explained that we shall not absorb a large iowever large our traffic may be; and I bout portio:i of i will go so it wo went of he rive develop- carried ou I to. Then scheme, fore, if it. wi:1: abs 6 e be such an amount of t. in chief it 'may be for that " traffic w than t forth :cross tt we with r and to old furniture and a few emp (Laughter.) Sir, Ica lave to pay the steam it. Now iittee hu nett. is to Ipril in -Gentlemen, I think you will se, _ . word about differences betwec pool. (Hear, hear.) Birkenhead and Live-r- gr. ',BUSHEL - ot another word t. will I say on that subject; sir. As to the question of cost, I deeply regret the decision to which the Corporation has come to in this matter—not so much in relation to the loss of pecuniary contribution, which, for an object so generallyadvantageous to this community, might reason-. ably have been expected from that body, as in, relation to the spirit of unwillingness, which that refusal had manifested, to co-operate with the Mersey Dock and Harbour Board in their first attempt, since the severance of -the' trusts," to acconiplish a great commercial and social improvement—a ; spirit of this kind is unhappily reactionary and productive of antago nism. If the commerce of Liverpool is to maintain that progress which has hitherto marked its course ; if its tonnage is to continue, its process of doubling itself in every twenty years as in each of those past periods of this century ; if the four millions and a half of tonnage of 1859 are to be nine millions of tons in 1879 ; if the population is to be alike wonderfully and relatively progressive ; if these things are to be, there will be need, much need 'of large, not to say of bold and comprehensive views; on the part of those who are called to the administration of our great local trusts, and of a willing and generous, and therefore noble co operation in all that concerns the general good. Let us hope that our municipal affairs will be entrusted only to such minds. And further, let us hope, that this board, called as it is to the administration, not only of a local, but great national trust, will endeavour to submit itself to the altered circumstances in which it is placed, and put ting aside former prejudices, and forgetting former strifes, disregarding, so far as human nature will per mit, like personal, and class, and 'party interests, will apply itself' individually and collectively, to the great work of developing the mightypower, which I conscien tiously believe, still remai ns hidden in our now gigantic dock 'estate. Mr. ARNOLD said—Any attempt on my part to reply to Mr. Bushell on this o r an y other, question would fairly lay me open to the charge of presumption; but, fortu nately, a better answer is ready to the advocates of this measure than any that could proceed from me, and that answer is to, be found in the able report of the solicitor, presented to the board at our last meeting. Allowing for the reservations which always accompany the opinion of professional men, it points, as 'it were, to the word " dangerous" at every step, and surely no prudent body of men would attempt to proceed with - this undertaking after hearing that report. It needed not the eloquence of Mr. Bushell to convince me how desirable it is to supply accommodation for the heavy traffic, and all descriptions of traffic, between the twir sides of the river—between the two parts of the estate ; but that broad question is not the question before us. The ques tion before us is the adoption of a report committing us to a particular inadequate plan. I desire to see docks- flourishing on both sides of the river, with a full, and, complete, and perfect communication between them but this sche me does not meet' the requirements of the case. It appears to me to be a crude and imperfect plan, though, with his instruc tions and the means at his disposal, I believe the engi neer could not have given us a better. But is this scheme worthy the adoption of the board ? Is this all that can be done to provide a 'highway, as it were, be tween . the two great divisions of the finest system of commercial docks in the world ? I venture to think not. And such as it is, how do you prop ose t o a c co m pli s h i t ? Why,' by taking from a large and important section of the trade of the pert a part of that accommodation that was . expresslT provided for it, and which properly and undoubtedly oelongs to it. I am sorry to differ upon this question with gentlemen with whom I am generally found .to agree, 'particularly upon subjects relating to Birkenhead, but in the course take at this board I en deavour to uphold, and I hope in a becoming manner, what I conceive to be for the interest of the estate. Mr. Bushell, and those who agree with him on this question, are advocating, unconsciously and unintentionally, I am sure, the interests of a few residents on the other side of the river ; for this scheme, if carried out, is suited only to their convenience, it is `not calculated for the safe con veyance of merchandise, or any heavy and bulky material, and as a source of profit to the estate, is - not worth con sideration. No proposition so frill of objections has ever been brought before the board. The land approaches to the piers and landing stages are bad—inadequate to a large increasing traffic; the space at the south :c 14 4. lo f Prince's Dock is too confined, and the doing vim_ with one of the bridges is a clumsy ex, silent, and highly objectionable ; and I think when mmodation is provided it should be at 'two points opposite each other, and not in a slanting and oblique direction, and across the river traffic. If you want to cross to Birkenhead, your point of departure 'from the Liverpool side, should be as nearly as possible opposite to Birkenhead, and not opposite Seaeombe— your point of departure should be from George's Dock Basin, or the west side of George's Dock, or better still, from the property of Nova Scotia. But it will be said this involves delay and a great outlay : granted, but you cannot safely proceed with even this insignificant lan wit V considers the grounds The scheme whiCh so fai calm- 16m, ,the matter will be ,nding- stage .ture in connex- former. may be, I conceive it be a dangerous policy to allow any partiei to towards the cost of tlyi alterations in the )ort indicates, font must either give those. vested right to the use of ti hdraliing, the consid. ion, if required, to for the sake of explana- y go : elsewhere; for to - Mv mind this atest ob' I hve. to the •oposal, I will su. three o passenger_ publi to relieve the traff of the already over-crowded traffic of channel through which it now flows, by diverting the L• A • this narrow pvilavu tn. it, w bone otner portion or our estate, where equal, if not superior, facilities could be afforded; then I say our.successors should have extreme difficulty in dealing with the question, in consequence of the pro posed arrangement; and the contracting parties would be justified in declining to move, so long as they ful. filled their portion of the obligation, if these alterations are absolutely xecessary to rectify the oversight of the designers of the stage. I conceive it is our duty, and ours only, if we mean to possess full control over the stage, to make the alterations at the expense of the board end I gieve that tu. to,rl nronosed 1 neut. AA, cne plan proposk by Mr. Hartley is admirably adapted to effect the intended object, if the. traffic of _the stage demands an alteration. Then, as re, garde , the 'Woodside stage, we are told that the works agreed to by the Commissioners, and directed by Act of Parliament to be carried out, do not ' afford all the needful facilities ; and keeping in mind the desire of the board, set forth in the resolution of the 7th April, I expect the board will meet the wishes of the Commissioners, and co-operate, as far as our interests will warrant, with them. But here again I forward a couple of years, and believe that I am justified in stating that when our Birkenhead dock is occupied, mutual arrangements must be made for estab lishing a ferry intercourse on the lowest possible scale of charges,.' which will run into the heart of our docks, through the low• water basin, and this will be the time and the direction in which this board may be fairly called on to provide suitable facilities. The dock traffic which this board has mainly to guard, must be materially benefitted by the reduction of distance and cost. But lam willing to, admit the alterations will be of some benefit to the dock property, and would be willing to adopt them, provided the commissioners would undertake to defray the interest of the outlay, which would be little or no more than what they are called on to contribute under present proposals; and, as they have a legal right to a portion of this stage, the objec tion of allowing them to contribute •to the general alterations does not apply. .1 do not quite agree with those gentlemen who desire to throw out the scheme altogether ; but, on the other hand, I cannot vote for the report, on the grounds I have stated. I have em bodied those views in a resolution, which I will venture to submit, as an amendment, to ascertain the feeling of the board, and if it should find favour, I suppose it will find a seconder ; if not, it will prove a useless endeavour to point out a middle, and, to my mind, an infinitely safer course : That the whole subject be referred back to the Committee of Works for further consideration, generally ; but on the under standing that this board, apprehending that the proposed transit of goods to Woodside will not in any degree equivalent to the cost, be beneficial to the Birkenhead ,Dock Estate, are not prepared to approve of any plan for snch transit which shall not provide for the payment, by the Birkenhead Commis sioners, of at least interest of the whole of the proposed addi tional outlay for ferry purposes on that side of the river. On the other hand, this board are of opinion that any alterations which may, ultimately' be determined upon as necessary to improve the present approaches to the North Landing -stage, on the Liverpool side, ought to be undertaken at their oWn sole expense. The amendmeit was not seconded. Mr. Touni said he had listened to Mr. Arnold with great attention, as he always did, because that gentle man's remarks invariably contained so ,much good sense; but he confessed that he entirely disagreed with those gentlemen who opposed the resolution of the committee because it did not quite provide for the dock traffic and cargo traffic to both sides of 'the river. Mr. Maelver had said, the other day, that. the whole of the stage would be required for dock traffic purposes to Birken head ; but, after all, he found Mr..: Maclver rowing in the same boat with those gentlemeh who had always asserted that there would be no trade there. Mt. MACIVER was not aware that he was rowing in the, same boat with any party. Mr. SMITH claimed the protection of the chairman. for Mr. Tobin, as Mr Maclver was in the habit of in terrupting every &entlemen who differed from his views. • Mr TOBIN continued to say that the plan was never intended for the whole of the ' ,dock traffic for the, two sides of, the river ; for, as Mr. MaCrver had said, it could be carried much more economically by barges. But' there were also small stores for ships lying at the other side, such as copper for sheathing, copper nails, sails, cordage, provisions, and things of that nature, which, though small in themselves, were of much con sequence, and could be conveyed much cheaper than by the present mode; •and, if they had a large trade there, these things alone would make a considerable traffic of themselves. He believed, with Mr. Graves, that it would be more desirable to have the scheme carried out on a large scale ; but the present one, 'if carried out, could not interfere with that on a future occasion. They had a rise and fall in the tide e of thirty feet, and the difficulty proper incline. He wouldmention that _ _ was to get the present bridges could not be used foie more than two hours before and two hours after high water, and if a cart crossed from this to the other sid e it would have to remain there for six hours before it could return, with the bridges in their present state. It had been said by Mr. Inman that the present bridges were quite sufficient for sea,going steamers ; but he believed it would be beneficial to passengers arriving or departing by sea viag_ _steamers, _when vehicles could come alongside. He knew a lady who had to pay as much as Bs. to have her luggage put on the cart from the .landin stage, which was nearly- as much as the passage from Ireland. to Liverpool, and . that .price was paid according to the tariff. ,But the parties„who were ar guing against this scheme must be very deficient in memory, for two years ago they had written a letter askinglor what they now opposed.. The letter came from the Steam-ship Association, and he would read it as follows : Liverpool Steaa-sliip Association, Adelaide-builclinp, 4, Chapel-street, Liverpool, 25th August, 1857. lm directed by the Liverpool Steam• ship Association v to request that the attention of the Town Council flied' to the bridges, designekl to connect the New g-stage with the PrinCe's ilerhead, previously to the stage being taken off the contractor's hands and opened for tNitic. In doing so, lam desired to observe that the stage is iseful, at low water, when steam vesii side the riv round and say it al gentlem Steani-ship Asiociation, and who had asked for what the board now proposed to do, should turn no convenience that he cou: because other Xssocia- They . stage am steam intekes' serest was more 1 that it ) them, t: .1s are unable to enter the docks or.to come along er walls. 'lt is very' desirable, therefore, that the at the time the stage will be most used should be as complete and easy of aocess as possible, As the bridges are at present constricted, the association has every reason to fear this will Rot be the case. , They are shorter than those of the small stage, which, at low water, are not capable of being used by vehicles,' and are at such an angle that even foot passengers . find them, particularly in wet weather, somewhat difficult of ascent. The bridges to the new stage, the associa tion believe, will in wet weather be impassable for foot pas sengers, except on horseback, or by holding to the rails, and will be really dangerous, especially at night and in the winter time. s suggested that these defects to what otherwise is a fine of workmanship, and does credit -to all' concerned in the bridges of the lengtk at least of V2OO feet. This would not require the St . l7,:s to be moved further from the shore, as these bridges could be placed oblquely, and tram their greater length they would very much lessen the steepness at low water, and permit the access to the stage by vehicles at all states of the tide. ' The association trusts th . A this really important subject may receii , e the attention of the Council, whose desire, it is satis led, in the construction of the stage, has been to afford every possible accommodation and convenience. I am; sir, your most obedient servant, BEN. J. TifoxsoN, Sec 'ship the Mayor, Li .ould s would be c to them at all:- and the only h conduct wa besides the members of the tion would recei They ou plan re who hole portion of it towards was wanted was ti ) ends of the s ted to. He Ina do and, he be that . the steam ii a benefit in doniunctio va3 co erpool than that in sa. to inereas was sure, it would receive the fullest and fin Mr. Bushell had referred to the CorporatiO in the expense as it was thought would be advantageous to the burgesses of Liverpo that this should be carried- out, and ti support aA the Corp Or- tion ought to have improved the bridges ; but; fOr his own'part, he did not think that the Corporation was to blame. It was evidently the intention of the Committee, over which Sir James Graham presided, that the Corpo ration should be refunded their expenses. The revenue arising from the scheme would go into their common fund, and he thought they could apply any portion that they might think proper of their surplus revenue for such a purpose. The stage was defective ; and he be lieved that the plan proposed' by Mi. Hartley . would remedy that defect, and that it' would not injure the steam interest but would be of benefit to that interest. He had great pleasure in seeonding the adoption of the report. ME. ANDERSON was Willing to . accept the proposed .nstian advantanous to try the plan to see whether it was adapted to the embarkation of horses and carriages, and also to see if the American plan of steamer was suited for our river. he thought it might'be The CHAIRMAN wished to explain his reasons, for supporting the report, before they proceeded to the vote. He thought a great many gentlemen had forgotten the manner in which the matter had been brought before them,—that it was by an application from the Birken head Commissioners, with reference to the improve ment of the ferry traffic, and that the application had been referred to the Works Committee. With reference to transporting that for shipment across the river, it was very clear that goods so transported could never bear-to be subjected to ferry tolls. They had applied to the corporation, and they had declined to , contribute, and what the, board had to consider in reference to this matter was, how far they would benefit shippingthe on their own estate by contributing to a matter of that kind; and, looking at the matter in that light, he thought if they spent £50,000 for the improvement of the ferry traffic ir would be of great advantage and tend to improve those works on which they had spent about three millions of money: He should not have been disposed to go with the ques tion, if they were to get nothing for the money they were to spend. The Birkenhead Commissioners had agreed to pay for their ferry, and so far that was settled; but there might be some difficulty with the others, and on that account he thought it would be well to go for an act of Parliament. He would therefore strongly recommend that they should adopt the re port, and go for an act of Parliament this session, to enable them to increase their revenue, as he doubted whether they had the means of doing so, except by the Woodside Ferry. They could not have a landing-s,age in any other position ; and, as to the question of heavy goods, these goods must be conveyed from some of the docks. The matter had been so fully discussed, that he did not think it necessary to say more. Mr. TROCKLEBANK, in replying to the arguments brought forward against the report, observed that many gentlemen seemed to have misunderstood th e meaning of the word goods, and that it had proved a great stumbling block to them It never was intended that they should interfere with the accommodation of sea-going steamers, nor was it ever intended that heavy goods should be carted across the river ; but .bv this plan they had giVen increased facilities for carticg down goods to the steamers, instead of the pre sent method of carrying them down, ezcept two hours before or two hours after high water. When they con siderea the' quantity of goods that had gone by tenders to ships loading in the river, and that these ships paid dock dues—that the steamers arriving at the landing stage paid dock dues—they were bound to give every accommodation. They, were bound to come to some decision as to works on the other side of the river, which must be completed in twelve months from the Ist instant ; and if they decided that this plan was not to be carried out, the engineer would have to carry out the parliamentary plan on the kenhead side. He believed the scheme as comprehen sive as the present state 6f matters *odd allow them to adopt. As to the remark of Mr. Boult that Mr. Wil loughby would be injured, he had to say that in all cases personal considerations would have give way to public convenience. The CHAIRMAN then put the question to the vote, for or against the report, when the following gentlemen voted for, viz.: Messrs. Anderson, Brocklebank, BUshell, Holme, Hubbock, Hutchison, Laird, Little dale, Rankin, Segar, Shand, Smith, Tobin, and the Chairman. Against :—Messrs, Arnold, Boult, Rvans, Farnworth, Forwood, Graves, Inman, Langton Lockett, Maclver, Moss, and Rounthwaite, makin g fourteen for and tWelve against the adoption of the report. The report was conSequently adopted. • The CHAIRMAN asked if it was the pleasure of the hoard that the solicitor should prepare the notices for the act. He believed if they went to Parliament this year it, would cost them very little, but, he questioned very much if the cost would be so light after. „ Some discussion took . Place on this matter, which ended in Mr. LAIRD moving, and Mr. SMITH seconding, the following resolution : That the report being adopted, it be referred back to the Committee of Works, to consider whether the above resolution can possibly be carried into effect without an Act of Parliament, and with power to take'sueh steps as may be 'advised; and in the meantime to give the necessary notice. This resolution was agreed to, and the proceedings terminated. -.._ T - We (Cumberland racquet) regret to have to announce a serious accident to John Steel, Esq., M.P. Mr. Steel had been 'over' to Allonby in his own carriage, and in the servant l‘ r returning down Great Brow, near to his own mansion, one of the traces broke, and the horse immediatel y took cate favourably fright, and set off at a fearful p ace down the hill. In turning a corner of the road the carria g e was u p set , throwing Mr. Steel an d his servant out with great were immediately progressing im m di ly takenvo uraly home: ; but Steel, though seriously bruised about the head and face, ivis,olre we are he e giTadtyo. hear, servant is still in a very precarious state, y:A an :L ß A ye S ri E ey Y . COMMISSIONERS. sual monthly meeting. of the Wallasey COM '3 , was held last night at &remora. Mr. .esided ; the other.anumissioners present were . Hill, Bull; Eyre, Holmes, Hughes, Kerford, is of the proceedings of the Watch and Health o s f ew m e a ra rn. ge dr inain the ge district. as .ee were read. I n ans wer to a question by M r. 1, relative to the t a ki ng; up of Atherton - st reet, in 3 L.ighting on, the chairman entered into some explana tions regard was at first proposed to pu rc h ase some old proper t y in herton-street ; but this was abandoned f o r the plan 'Ai h e was sure to a map of awde term He determined that on in u when a system , I New I they were at present carryinfo'ut, whi would eventually be cheaper. A refere the Wallasey dikriet will show that it but the surveyor found that there was for a main drain, and they would, then ;nt system of very low, :ellent fall be able to rouotout the district. Mr. BALL drew attention to several larje itemsof expenditure for flags, &c., and doubted if. it WrlS p ruden t expenditure for flags, &c., and doubted ifit W eii' of for the commissioners to continue suc h a system ° expenditure, as it must eventually result in the neces sity of laying heavier taxes upon the inhabitants. The a IR MAN said that the layin g ou t of a ta ° ‘', - , pounds at once in New Brighton, would result to great saving, as it would have cost £250 a - y e ee p keep down the sand, whereas, by thi s ou tl a y, t,l' e 7 - ing down the sand was effectually accomplisu e ` ,l " 3 there was no more trouble about it rori oittee were then confirMed. '.,- The proceedings of the Gas and Water Committee were next brought under consideration. 00 , Mr. HILL read the report relative to the gas, w A which set forth that the gas-holder was complew,; ti p considerable number of lamp-posts had been P o a , i " • through the district , and they wou ld soon b e in 3 r - tionto'put.the gas into every house. The proceedings were en confirmed 'erry Committee 3/ 6 ' !v,,,efe.nsi.tthhellirbic,.lln NOVEMBER 4, 18 9. andthe proceedings The cow ation of Lded the lmisix LIVERPOOL POLIC (Beft COURT Mr. MANS AT, T.P. 17,F •ed persox if ss. i d hp fin beer-hou s on Morn Smethurst, about two h( ne into th ed him by the LS waist, jocde called the landlord of the prosecutor had been playing at cards, and P' fa Soon after t , and t His wife did t row some wat secutoes) fac Mrs: Smethurst and a respectabli-lookin Mary Hammond, were called witness.—Mr. Ma prosecute. 3d to be seve rec When t confirmeil. - te pr oceeding,s of the Firiaoce STEO . ).) bV ;, a respectir' et-of-leave) . 0 11 1 ith robbin bb , 7 eet. Mr. L' ° l3e r stated th3t io . kept by 3 The r" — hand hiS mi bb ir. Li' 4. Li. te n -ore 0 eve, e~eni of d'u .1 he the e 11°t15- .0 nee, me r ret l - 1- T" . „ into his a l "; or an ill -1,0 6 a ; person' rl O , t I -corroborated the 1 . 5 , t e was not the slip id committed peg f th e Punished fo r. 1 .a him. Mr. Cobh lrlsollOr IT° kutrim >mßirniiiigharn to L ife paying his fare. It apnea „ 1 from the Or t they were go irig ; F gehill, he , icket 016 what heIPL: the l!org paid his Ta ie intesoe doubt. which u but that the prisoner had the means to he had not ti - unfortunatel discharged. LING ON A RAAWA Thomas Wa' charged with ha; pop! withow deuce of some othe Belfast on f under the seat of the carriage to avoid tb.l One of his comrades told an offi Rowed him dow steamer, when he admitted that he h ey got The officer from Birminotam to Liverpool, and s to defraud the steam-boat COMP — He was searched and - fine under the railway company's but he was only fined 15s. and 7s. 6d:fare EMBEZZLEMENT. - Thomas Br on remand, charged with ha, sums of money, the property of his =I, Fletcher, and Co., tobacco manufactur 15s. foUnd upon art _bi,,r,lugviiarti°9llPs g e ssrs t_street, —The first witness ot derso—' t he aer, on Warrington, who said 30th of September , L 297. - It was a en - 4 . - e _r l Harlock said, on the 14th of October, he I s '" " - d - Ce. soner £lBB 175., on behalf of Messrs. an ~,0 He (prisoner) gave him a receipt for it.--A persong,4",f Messrs. John Gates . and Co., Warrington, said he ' 6 l, his master give the prisoner a cheque for £35 119 * o iti payable to Messrs. Fletcher and Co.—Mr. Fletcher A he had made a careful examination of the pris?7 o , returns, and, they had no account of any of the aD . Y.„t, named sums. They had traced £1,020 to him deiarLl at present.—Mr. Mansfield: Was he extravagant, or,u'of he drink ?—Mr. Fletcher: No, not that was notice? 4 those in the establishment.—The prisoner was comp]." for trial at the sessions-. winT; O i t e' THE EXTENSIVEWATCH ROBBERY.— ~ L,..,Aani ion beerhouse-keeper, Marble-street, and John Cor k o dl sold but T h e t m h or caseticketlvr aagainst sO fia o 1. e f os i s o c 0 _ 00 : t rev : baker, Roe-street, were placed in the dock, on rea l d it) charged by detective officers Scaife and Marsden ,i , having about £l5O worth of stolen watches in the . ,,,i f Y session.—Mr. Cobb inquired if there _was anY f o idodi evidence against Glue, as, the only evidence 4 0 " h s e t ohhliemand.,n a to Corkhill. There were some witnesses called,la 0 ; for athgaat t i n ri ts a lti l eh a i ll in d 'a'tvcash discharged twhaast consider the evidence sufficient to commit thef - 00. 1 j hill was • then gone into. Several persons ive',,the2 and swore that their watches had been stolen fn the , while sleeping on the street drunk, and id e nti o ,4 9 olP; by marks which they had made on them.--TheP' bel y ' was committed for trial, two sureties of £5"" taken. for his appearance.' (Before Mr. SHELL.) 0 61 0 11 UNWHOLESOME FOOD.—Elizabeth Jones vr - Tile 6 .5 e j 40s. and costs f or h av i ng 59 lbs. of unwhol ese iliclO a t exposed for sale in Pownall-square 2giarket. -- ,90 5 j Cox was also fi ne d O s . a n d co st s f or h a Ving unwholesome pork exposed for sale in the sane os , t COAL 01 1 THE SO UTH W ALES .I RON AND v OAL id During the month just termin a t e d, trade thru 11 a p the district has undergone''various fluctuatio ns/ in t 5 certain parts slackness has been experience d ' o'c Aberdare valley the coal trad e h as not be e° ;i . b A r . although a slight improvement is now P er :Ad/it The . make of pigs has ,been large, while railroo has also sold freely and at good prices. , r ecit r o , Continent considerable orders .have been ree e : t i l c i ° o o the large firms have been well supplied 01 „ 0 i d missions. The enlargement .of the BlOgl."0 Works has been fully . called into requil' t , l % tee/ there can be no doubt that the further 1 rol e in which progress is now being made 1 ; 41 most serviceable and profitable. At 'Ebu t het; o et sonie large orders have been executed, and , e e o a c e d , still in hand. At Blaina a steady , trade has ' 41 414 without any very great' activit being e sadf: The minor works are going; on prosperonsPdde;oo7 iron-masters are looking forward to an meres t f Th before the winter season has far advanced. `;o 4 ., c ,it °. f steam coal there is very little change to ;le' enquiry is generally rather more brisk at t yee v the year than at any other, and thus the hales e ports—Swansea, Cardiff, and Newport t heiA crowded with vessels for several weeks P o ng, co ve,'„ large . contracts have been taken up, 311/ The being one or two for the Admiralty. . 03 1 a c o e riority of the Welsh steam coal for use in ' rso fern M. is thus practically acknowledged by the vwhic.ll notwithstanding the animated discussion&, o uriabol e f taken place on the question. In the neiguu t io . 4 (1, satisfactory. Large quantities of ore have bee_oot,ol.- be Ph Orlo w or es. f t the c applicationt sForest the p 6 o f s t t oD i oena thisn o , f readily bought up by the IVlonrnouthshire on oth er ole t ye ganshire ironmasters for admixture with o. . o . vsl it o The Forest ore has lon been considered th andtra trade has that beeaenn, on race d ., Is, sence of railway communication gre 3tl Y u pplYl iig h' amount of business. Several schemes for.. to deficiency have been 'projected from tirlotbingr;fl beyond the mereseprelimmary operations ote a Y id o ble'llaS resulted. At the Coleford be 5 ' 3 4 , to flourishing trade is doing, and the same e n,i , t o wel; fis ti other concerns in the district. We regr r ble t b'ate l f purpose, but unfortuntuijots chit has. beenthat tshoe for n r s t o r m ad e e4 sufficient to keep them in operation. ionpansinto stTdheopwloorraks oct. A p 0 rt0 , 4 % (% ti ts IA A • 41 SIA hal4 be p l e4 044,.(,;11 t 4 1'4 - `,llt, f Or fl;. of thq r (Zre t ~kl4b2p, e t, PAl 3 :l l ' ,tn b:_ar)4 ld Erg" theTil,ee „. ti l Of LAY3z-F3,1411: a~ _,~ 'nth e c Cor r; rare t c Y ork s . rl e Tlize:i ic e „lip, • )4ANTE S~i~ j . `~ ~:;,. ~, ~,~ ho B ps Q 4,4;•.. '1 4 4 . 4- : 11 ari Cke et 4 tsN 'l4 ' l l l y 4 lO ti a 4 \ 4( kl 4 1 4f \ %'• k`ta The q At Attl . /ill,ll °Li 4 ' 1% 4 4 ••lilt "ad._ IE for Reg ~ t N' s,qvik t o l „ 4 N t t. P4rl NNI )41 t 4, 1 t i 4 llPrA k t "tt 4 ,1! 17 4 (, , "URA 1)Mil cowl York , for' t )41.1,3 C 4 k. A pp o - lit Eeoel Ito • Pt b Ak, B ,IA k. , 81, 4 411 'AN