The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1835-08-21 00:00:00

Imperial Parliament. HOUSE OF LORDS—Morin:iv, AUG. 17. Several bills were brought up from the House of Commons by the Attorney-General, Mr. Bernal, and other members. • On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND the report of the highways bill was received and the third reading fixed for Mon day next, when the Earl of FALMOUTH intimated his intention of imposing certain amendments to the bill. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY postponed his motion respect ing Spanish* affairs to Monday next, in consequence of the pressure of other business before the house. The following petitions were presented in favour of the municipal corporations' retorm bill:— By Lord BROUGHAM from Gateshead, Devonport, Melton, Ross, Hereford, Alton, Alresford, Southwold, Milbridge and Livesey, Carmarthen, Towels, Sutton Coldfield, and some other places; by the Marquis of WESTMINSTER from Chester; bs the Earl of RADNOR from Ashton-under-line and Andover; by the Duke of CLEVELAND from Darlington; by Viscount Nisi.- BOURNE from the cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow, from Rich mond, Yorkshire, Dublin, Rochdale, and some other places. Viscount MELBOURNK also presented a petition front 13-1 free men of Liverpool praying that their rights might be ax- TiNGUISHED! Petitions against the bill were presented by ( the Earl of Wlrs- CHILSEA from Lincoln; by the Earl of DARTMOUTH from Olney; by Lord LYNDHURST from Dudley, Chard, and from the Judge, Registrar, and Proctors of the Admiralty Court of Great Yarmouth; by the Earl of WA I.DEGR AYR from the free men of the city of Y0t:15.; and by Lord FEVERSHAM from Scar borough. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition signed by 2,000 in habitants of London and Westminster, praying for the repeal of the stamp duty on newspapers. The .petitioners expressed their great dissatisfaction with the budget of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL. Lord BaouGHAM called the attention of the house to this bill. He detailed the great care and consideration' with which it had been discussed and prepared in the House of Commons, and trusted their lordships would throw no obstacle in the way of converting the bill into law. ' Lord.:Cyzenuvasr admitted the importance of the bill—and that it had undergone great discussion and examination in the other hOuse Of parliament, but that was a reason why it should undergo great discussion and examination in their lordships' house. It was quite impossible unless their lordships were pre pared to sit six weeks longer--(hear, hear)—to give it the con sideratiota, which is; required iu this ses si on . Lord FioiNu,u t i reinipded their lordships that this bill applied the principle of the bankrupt laws to every acre of land in the country. The onlinissioners named in the act could have power not only over the property but the persons of their lord ships. (Hear, bear.) He hoped their lordships would let the bill be printed and take it with them into the country, in order that they might be acquainted with its provisions against the next session of parliament. Lord BeouGHast lamented that the noble lord had attempted to stigmatize the bill by a premature advertisement against it. He would not pl e d ge h imse lf to abstain from proceeding with this bill, nor would he state how he would proceed until he had taken time for consideration. After a few words from Lord AsuatetTore the conversation dropped. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid upon the table, by com mand of his Majesty, an order in council declaring that an ade quate provision had been made by law in the colons - of Honduras to give efficiency to the act of the imperial parliament for the abolition of slavery. He then gave notice that he should to morrow move the second reading of a bill for the more effectual prevention •of disturbances in Ireland. If any noble lord ob jected to it, be would not press the bill. The tea duties bill went through committee, was reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The literary publications bill and the turnpike roads (Ireland) bill also went through committee. The Earl of HA DOINGTON, on the order of the day for going into committee on the corporations bill being tnoven, wished to snake a few observations. It would be remembered that three or four times during the discussions on this bill the learned lord opposite (Brougham) had, with good-hurnoured taunts and cour teous satire, referred to the triumphant manner in which he had carried the Scotch burghs reform bill two years ago. The bill had passed all its stages when only thirty peers were present. He (the Earl of Haddington) and a friend of his; the Marquis of Bute, had suggested, that as his Majesty's then government had issued a commission of inquiry into the state of these cor porations, it would be' better to defer legislation until they had made their report. The government, however, thought it best • to legislate first and to inquire afterwards. (Hear, and a laugh.) Since then he understood tlec commissioners had made their re port—a report which, from ad he heard, he believed would fur nish a very strong example that on the whole it would be better to inquire before legislation was proceeded on. The corpora tion of Edinburgh nominated all the clergy of the established church of Scotland resident in that city, and also to some, at least three-fourths, of the profes s o rs hip s i n th e University. The same. observation also held good with respect to the corporation of Glasgow. Now, Übe was rightly informed, the report of the commissioners would completely bear out and justify the antici pations which his noble friend below him (the Earl of llosslyn, we believe) and he hi mse lf had expressed at the time the bill was passed. The commi ss i oners who had been !appointed by his Majesty's then government were, to the best of his recollec tion, highly respectable gentlemen, all of them, according to what seemed the present fashion, whig lawyers—advocates at the Scotch bar, and he had been informed, and he believe?! his inforraition to be correct, that their report, either in its body, or in.the evidence, or in both, set forth-that the powers, jurisdic tion, and patiouage vested by that act in those annually and popularly elected town councils ought not to have been so vested in them (hear, hear), and that those powers were not safe to the institutions over which, under that act, the popularly elected town councils exercised sole and complete control. (Hear.) Thie was the opinion which he had.•originally entertained and expressed in that how. He thought now it was very desirable that this document should be lair! before the house, and he wished to ask his noble friend at the head of the government, Arit, whether the report.bad been received? and secondly, whe ther he would breve any objection to its being forthwith laid on the table of the house? He had no personal means of knowing bow the town council of Glasgow was composed, but he believed it would be found that many of that body were dissenters from the established church. When this fact was added to another fact—namely, that in the Scotch church commission, over which the noble earl opposite presided (the Earl of Minto), there were net only dissenters but known friends to the voluntary principle —be anticipated that their lordships would concur with him in thinking that it was high time that the house should know what was the opinion of the highly respectable commissioners of cor porate inquiry in Scotland on the subject of the operation and effects of the Scotch burgh reform act. This subject had an indirect but important reference to the bill now under considera tion ; for the present bill, like the Scotch act, contained nothing that would prevent the admission of dissenters to rule over the considerable church patronage and patronage of other kinds, he which the interests of the church establishment were wound up, at present vested in the English corporate bodies. It was the duty, therefore, and would well become their lordships, attached as they were to the institutions and the church of the country?, and to those fundamental institutions on which the monarchy rests, to consider the manner in which the aualagous provisions in the Scotch and the present measure had worked in Scotland. The noble earl concluded by repeating his question. Valcount MetaionitNE said he should not enter into a discus sion on what had taken place on the passing the Scotch burghs act, neither should he attempt to follow the observations of the noble earl, though in many of them he could not concur. He begged leave to state that the report to which the noble earl had alluded was received en the Bth of this month, and would imme diately be laid on the table of the house. Measures had also been taken to place it printed in the bands of noble lords as speedily as pOssible. (Hear, hear.) At the close of this conversation the order of the day was read, and the house went into committee on THR MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL. On the 24th clause being put, Lord LYNDHURST said it was his intention to propose some ameadatents on this clause. Before, however, he stated the nature of them, be could not forbear adverting to the observa tions of a noble dake, (Cleveland,) who, oa presenting a peti tion from Darlington, had charged him (Lord Lyndhurst) with wasting the time of the house in unnecessary discussions on this bill.. Never in the history of parliainebt had a question re quiting more cautious consideration, been presented to their lordships; and, though it was n ow on l y f ourteen d ays s i nce it was proposed to rea d the bill a second time, the house had ad vanced greatly in committee, while the other house had been employed five weeks on the discussion of this question. He, therefore, protested against the charge of the noble duke as being utterly destitute of foundation and made without due con sideration. The noble duke bad also charged them with alter ing the principle of the bill. He (Lord Lyndhurst) was not ewers that any alteration had been made in the principle of the bill up to this , time (hear, bear.) The house had now arrived at the most iixipateaut clause in the bill—that clause which es. tool to the etetweloaition of the governing body of the of L wesporatitms. (Hear.) It was in re site ta tho go ' 1 4• 4 bodies that his amendm en t s wou ld h e proposed; ascot, ftrit, must inquire what was the s h a p e o f th at b o d y un d er this bi 4 . The council was-to be elected by the rate-pavers, and to hold their °film for three years; hut no qualification was required. That qttalificatioie he thought necessary, and to that point his amendments would be directed. Let their lordships consider is what way a body constituted as this bill provided wookt-set. They were to be elected by the whole body of rate-payers, and all past experience showed they would act under the control of the persons by whoei they were elected. (Hear.) Past" expe rience showed that they would be tequired to give pledges as to their course of conduct: they would be influenced by the pro spect of re-election, and thus would he bound to flatter the pre judices and pander to the passions of those whose suffrages they again sought.. (Hear, hear.) The house and the country had lately seen how this system worked; they had seen that a per son so appointed wouiti act under the control and be subservient to the opinions and political views of those by whom ho was returned. When he (Lord Lyndhurst) first entered into public life, ha remembered the priucipre then acted upon with respect to the , representative government of the country, and carried also in minor matters of government. It was then said, with respect to the representative government, that it had all the advantages of a elemncracy while it avoided its evils; it was said that by adopting that principle the abuses of a democracy were got rid ot, and,the representative was left to exercise his own fair, impartial, and unbiassed judgment upon matters submitted to his consideration. Of that system their lordships and the country had seen the reverse, (hear, hear,) and the represents. the might now be considered as the mere agent or delegate of those who elected him. Now, when it was remembered by whom these town-councils were to bo chosen, and when the house saw the manner in which those councils were to be com posed, he must he excused if he recalled to the recollection of their lordships the extraordinary and extensive powers by this bill vested in them. In the first place, they were to have the possession and entire control of all the funds and property of the corporation; in the next place, they were to be intrusted kith the power of imposing taxation—a power far beyond that possessed by any body in this kingdom, except the two houses of parliament (hear, hear); in the third place, they were to have the entire, free, and uncontrelled patronage of the church —a patronage extensive in many corporation s , and in Bristol alone comprising eleven or twelv e churches. la addition to these powers, they were to have that of licensing public-houses within their several and respective jurisdictions ; they were also to have the entire control and direction of the police of their town or borough; they were also to have the extraordinary power of selecting the individuals to be presented to the throne for . choice for the office of magistrate, for the crown was to have the choice only of such as were nominated by the governing IOW? of the corporation ; and, lastly, there was to be transferred to these nominees of the people, without qualification, inquiry, Or security!, the extensive charitable funds placed under the care andlupertutencience of the now existing corporations. (Hear, lAO9 Sach were the extraordinary and extensive powers 'to be invested in the body he. had mentioned--a body so elected, end acting under such control, as to excite in his mind foelings of alarm for the consequences. (Hear, hear, hear.) He 'regretted the noble viscount opposite (Viscount Melbourne) Lad not laid on the table of the house the report to which 'his noble friend (the Earl of Haddington) had adverted, because the (Lord Lyndhurst) had reason to believe that in it would be fottad such observations With respect to the operation of this principle in Scotland as would lead the house to pause before it gave away powers such as these to bodies so constituted. believed it would be found that the commissioners entertained very great doubts as to the . propriety of investing these corpe= rations with ecclesiastical patronage and with right of inter ference with the . universities. As the report was not on the table, he could not with absolute precision or certainty state fully the nature of the other objections entertained by the com missioners. With respect to Glasgow, however, he had an ac count furnished by a gentlemen holding such a station in that city—a gentleman of observation, ofexperience, and of talent— as to be able to state the wanner in which the system worked . there, and which would put the house on its guard as to the Course it should pursue in this bill. It was material that he should refer theirlordships to some passages in this letter, which he ‘(Lori Lyndhurst) considered important. This gentleman says—" The baneful effects of the want of such a qualification we severely feel in Glasgow, under the Scotch burgh reform act, anti 1 am anxious our case should be known to your grace before the cities of England be subjected to a similar infliction. Under the old system our magistrates and councillors were taken from the highest class of our citizens, and uniformly *ere the wealthiest and most influential of our merchants and manufacturers. Under the new system councillors have been elected who were, on oath, certified to be so poor as to he un able to contribute the smallest sum to the poor rate; others were but lately bankrupts, and newly discharged by their credi tors ; and the great majority w ere men o f ne i t h er in fl uence nor property, distinguished in their little circles merely by the violence of their political opinions. The acts of such a council are just what might have been anticipated. Having little or no stake in the community themselves, they proceeded to deal with the burgesses' property, under their trust, in the roost improper manner, employing the burgh funds in- attempting to turn out out the old legal and civil servants of the corporation, Who held their offices' ad vitaro o ut eu lp am ' and to put in creatures of their own—lo attempting to exclude the established clergy from their share in the maaagetnent of the greatest of our city cha rities, which they derived from the will of the founder, and which they had exerciseittor 190 'rears. These and an endless catalogue of mischievous Measures have been the consequence of the inexperience and ignorance of our councillors; and the respectable part of the council are so dissatisfied with the con duct of the majority, that they seldom can be brought to take a share in their proceedings, and there is every prospect of the councils falling into utter contempt. The burgh funds have suffered severe dilapidations under their management, and they talk of resorting to a poll-tax to replace what they have dissi pated. Under the management of the old council, for several years back, the publishelbalance-sheet exhibited a surplus re venue." It Avduld not be convenient that he should state the name of the wt' r, but he had no objection to communicate it to hit noble anelf , leerned friend opposite. (Hear.) Now the questinu was, did their lordships think that the town council would be so - constituted under this bill as it now stood, that it might be safely trusted with the exercise of those extensive powers with which they would be intrusted under this bill ? In his opinion they required some steadiness in that body. They required something in its composition to guard against that un steady influence which from time to time would be exercised by the popular party in -the refriewal of parts of the council. But how was this to be effcled ? He thought it could be by having a certain portion of the corporation not subject to re-election every three years, but to hold their appointment for life. His proposition would be that the proportion to exempt from elec tton should amount to one-fourth of the whole of the town coun cil. Now, in this he followed the example of some of the best. corporations in the country ; be followed also that ideal model for which some contended, who asserted that the ancient prac tice of our corporations was that the election of its members should be an open niie, and that many of them should hoid their appointments for life. He followed also the example of the corporation of London, which had its common council an nually elected, but its aldermen elected for life; but he was also folowing the precedent let in a bill which had received the sanction of his noble and learned friend and of the noble viscount. Ile flattered himself that on this occasion he should have the support and protection of his noble and learned friend. Lord BROCc IiA.M.—No. • Lord LYN DHURST was very sorry to hear this sudden denial of support from his noble and learned friend, and that too before he - stated the reasons on which be had founded his hope that he should receive that support. The ground on which he had flattered himself that he should have the support of the noble viscount was this—that in the bill to which he had alluded his noble and learned friend had a provision to this effect, that each corporation should elect in each ward one freeman who was to be an alderman, and who should hold his office for life. Another clause of that bill which he was disposed to follow was, that the mayor and aldermen of such corporations should be members of the common council in virtue of their office, notwithstanding anything which had been.said in the previous clauses of the bill, as to one-third of the council going out every three years. In tbis he quoted the exact words of his noble and learned friend's bill. That bill, it was unnecessary to say, was that measure by which it was proposed to give municipal charters to certain towns and newly created boroughs. It was a measure drawn up with great attention, and had undergone the careful revision of a noble lord, then the leader of the other house of parliament. It had received the full approbation of the then government, and he had never heard that his noble and learned friend had ever said a word against the principle of that part of the bill. He himself could not speak on the subject ?rim his own recollection, for he was not present, but he had searched that mirror in which the past proceedings of the house were reflected, and he could not find any record or mention of any such objection having been made by his noble and learned friend. He had also consulted a noble lord who bad good opportunities of knowing, and on whose excellent memory he could rely, and he could not find out that his noble and learned friend had ever expressed any dissatisfaction at the priuciple of having a portion of the corpo ration—namely, the aldermen—to hold their offices for life. On the contrary, he found that his noble and learned friend praised the mode of electing aldermen as propos e d in hi s bill, arid that which was adopted - in the corporation of London. He could not but admire the prudence of the course adopted by his noble and learned friend with respect to that measure. It was a Measure vihich went to create corporations, but it bad not to deal with - existing interests. It did not interfere with vested rights or ancient privileges, it was not vaixed.up with compli cated questions, and vet his noble 'and learned friend, with a prudence which did him credit, was anxious that it should not be hurried through parliament; and, having laid it on their lordships' table, he proposed that it should stand over for another session. Contrasting that course with the railway speed with which it was attempted to urge the present measure forward, he must call the latter most exceptionable, unwise, and injudicious. Now, what he proposed was, that three-fourths of the town council should consist of those already named in the bill, and be elected in the manner there stated; but that the remaining fourth, having the title of "capital burgesses, or " aldermen," (several noble lords called out " Aldermen ") should b e e l ec t e d, and once elected should c o ntin u e to hold' their offices for life Their lordships might ask whom did he propose to fill the place of aldermen, and he had no hesitation in saying that he thought it but an act of justice that the offices should be continued to those who now held them. (Hear, hear.) They held them by ancient charters; they had long been connected with the admi nistration of property to a large amount. There was no law in the country could deprive them of those appointments, except they forfeited them by misconduct. It was a principle of our constitution that "no man shall be dispossessed of his freehold except by the judgment of his peers, or by the law of the land." What ! the noble viscount bad abandoned that part of the pre amble which cast an imputation on the corporations. Where,. then, was the charge against them ? Was it in the report of the commissioners ? l'hat report had been answered by evi dence at the bar in thirty cases which had been gone into. Here, then, were men against whom no charge had been proved. On what principle ought they to be deprived of their chartered rights and franchises ? He was sure their lordships would never sanction such injustice. There would b e no diffi cu l ty i n the plan he proposed. It was the common practice when the crown granted a charter to a municipal corporation that the first alder men should be named in it is a matter of grace and favour. In the present case, if the numbers marked in the bill as the town council should correspond with the present numbers in corpora tions, there the number of aldermen might be allowed to remain if they formed only one-fourth of the whole, but if they exceeded that number they might be reduced; or if they were below it the number could be easily increased. He had thus opened the nature of his amendment, but he would defer putting it in the exact words until he came to the clause at which it was come in. Lord BROUGHAM thought with his noble friend that the par ticular form of words, the shape of the proposition they had to discuss was a matter of mighty little-importance. Inroads, like everything else, were comparative, and that which brought the invader three days march within the frontiers of the invaded country was no inroad compared to that which put him in pos session of the capital. He called the former amendments the other night inroads, because they infringed upon the integrity of the measure,—because they no longer left the measure pure, free, and in its original aspect,—but what was now to be done caused him to regard a bat had been done as no inroad at all. Bad as that inroad was upon the measure, now that he had heard his noble and learned friend's proposition; he looked back to it with envy and regret —a regret that the tune of Thursday and Friday should have been lost in discussing it. "Do not,' said Lord brougham, "let us shut oar eyes to the fact, or disguise it from ourselves—the bill . is gene (esusi cheers) if this princis t)jl iaintr,oduced." I know you; lordships will say "so much e better. ' A Noble Lord.—" No!—not at all !" Lord BROUGHAM.—I believe a majority of your lordships will be prepared to rinse er—" So much the better that the bill should be lost." The noble and learned lord then proceeded to sayslat& their lordship had,fultilled his worst antimpatiuns. Hia noble friend's proposition was grounded on the assumption that into popularly elected were the mere puppets or tools of those who choose them,,and not the real representatives of the inte rests of the country; and he, Lord Brougham, because he thought that the popularly elected might safely be trusted to represent the 'interests of those who chose them, should give to that proposition his decided and most unqualified oppo sition. If his noble friend's proposition were once admitted, it would go at once to abolish the representative principle in the other house of parliament. He could not conceive an argument which applied to the election of representatives of municipal in terests, which would not with the same force be applicable to the election of members of parliament. He was satisfied the peo ple of this country might be safely entrusted with the manage ment of their own affairs. His noble and learned friend, allud ing to u bill which he (Lord Brougham) had introduced into that house two years ago, and in which it was for that men once chosen aldermen should . b e aldermen for life, expressed great surprise and astonishment to find that be (Lord 1 3-) would not on this occasion come forward to second his proposi tion for making at least a portion of the townsoounesl town coancillors for life. In the first place • his noble end learned ' friend should recollect that there was a wide difference between' the functions to be performed by town councillors, and those to be performed by aldermen. Town councillors were chosen simply to defend the interests of the borough, and to watch over ' the expenditure of the borough funds. Aldermen, on the other hand, were not the taxers —not the guardians of the common purse—but were filling a judicial situation, and assisting in the administration or justice. (Hear, hear.) Because the alder man was elected for life, therefore it by no means followed that the town-councillor should hold the office for the like period. But his noble and learned friend hail no right to endeavour to bind him to the letter of the bill of 1833, because that measure wits, in fact, nothing more than a sketch. It was not brought for ward as a perfect measure; but merely as a skeleton which should lie on the table of the h ouse unt i l further inqu i ry and greater experience should teach them how, in the best manner, t,, fill up its different parts. In th e next p l ace h i s noble anti learned friend stated that the Scotch commissioners, after in stituting an inquiry into the subject, found that the Scotch cor poration reform bill did not work well. This his noble and learned friend asserted upon the strength of a letter he had re ceived from a high authority in that part of the country; but surely his noble and learned friend must have forgotten that a petition in favour of the bill, signed by 30,000 persons, had been sent up from Glasgow. He would place that petition against the letter alluded to by his noble and learned friend. 'Besides he (Lord B.) had had a very extensive c ommun i ca ti on w i t h Scotland upon.the subjeet, and up to this moment he had never beard one _syllable or whisper of cemplaint against the measure ( Hear.) With respect taitheaiaeacise of church patronage, be must say that he thought his noble and learned friend's fears upon that point were wholly groundless: Alowsovai that, patro nage to be exercised except by the governidg body of the cor porations, arid who would say that a governing body, freely elected, would not exercise it as honestly and properly as those THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD which were self-elected? With respect to the admini,t r ation of the funds of charitable estates, he was disp o sed to admit, that when the governing body was popularly chosen, and no check imposed on• the qualification. of the constituency, there might be a reason for having an effective check; and he had no objec tion that a control should be provided much more effectual than that which the Court of Chancery at present provided. As to the general proposition of his noble and learned friend, that one-fourth of the representative body should be chosen for life, he must say that he could notcommand language strong enough to express, not only his opposition, but his utter aversion and disgust of it.: If it were on c e acceded to, it woucl open the dour to all the worst evils of the existing system. He looked upon this bill as.in their lordships' hands for its salvation or destruc- • tion. By the alterations already made it was all but destroyed. The amendment before their lordships, if carried, would, he feared, be utterly fatal to the measure. He regarded the amend ment itself as utterly Inc •lisistent with the principle of the mea sure into which it was proposed to introduce it, and tending in practice to render it nu ga t ory . B y f o i st i ng i n a ld ermen - for life, the self-elective principle completely overlaid every other, and was calculated in the working of the measure and in the fulness of tinie to restore every borough to its state of pristine rottenness. 'rile vigour and purity of principle which, in other respects, would be introduced into the eovernmeut of corpora ' thins by the measure, would be paralysed by the baneful self elective provision. If their lordships should adopt the amend ment of his noble and learned friend, they would send forth a mockery. a mere shadow under the pretence of the substance of reformation, tainting the whole mass with rottenness, and dis appointing, wofully disappointing the universal, the sanguine, the ardent, and unquestionably the just expectations of the peo ple of England. (-Cheers.) Lord WHARNCLIFFE was surprised to find the speech of the noble lord so devoid of argument. Ile thought that noble lords on his side of the house had a right to adopt and stand by a principle embodied in . a bill laid upon their table with due gra vity, and after due deliberation, by a Lord High Chancellor of England. That was all that he and his friends were contend ing for with the noble and learned lord who had just sat down. ( Hear. hear.) He (Lord W.) sincerely believed that the in troduction of members for life would enable the bill to work well, and that it was absolutely necessary to provide against the town councils under this bill becoming mere political engines, as was the Casa with the common council of the city of London. To send the measure forth without this corrective would be to strike a blow at the very root of the aristocracy by giving the entire power in corporations to the democracy. Lord ELLENtioitouoti said, he believed it essential to the public interests that a bill for the reform of corporations should pass that house. He found no fault with the bodies who had heretofore exercised the corporate functions, but he thought there was a defect in the appointment by the crown of the go ' verning bodies of towns, which required the correcting hand of that house to remedy. Ile was quite sure the noble viscount opposite (Viscount Melbourne) had no other object in view in the measure before the house than the good and quiet govern ment of the different towns to which it referred. He (Lord Ellenborough) having the same object in view, was desirous of seeing his noble and learned frienu's amendment form part of the bill. Lord MELBOURNE began by observing, that his noble and learned friend (Lord Brougham) had so ably and so fully dis cussed the subject under consideration, that he (Lord Mel bourne) had but little to say upon it. After the fullest consi deration that he could give to the amendment of the noble and learned lord, he was bound to declare that he could not but regard it as seriously injurio us , if no t en ti re ly f a t a l t o th e bill (cheers.) The amendment would divest it of that character f; popularity which was its best recommendation to the country: It was calculated to impede the march of the measure, and clog every object which the framers of it had in view. What these objects were had been already well described to their lordships and also the manner in which they would be interfered with by the anomalous provision which it was the purport of the no ble and learned lord's amendment to introduce. He could not help remarking that there was a singular discrepancy between the arguments of the two noble lords who had last spoken, and the noble and learned lord who was the author of the amend ment.. The noble and learned lord had spoken in a spirit of the utmost hostility against the bill, describing in the most glowing colours the degradation of all those principles of the representa tive system which were most cherished in the days of his youth in favour of more democratic and dangerous sentiments, treat ing the bill before their lordships as the offspring of the change. The whole force of his argument lay in pointing out the dan gers of the time at which they had arrived, when it became ne cessary to give way to the prejudices and submit to the wildest fancies and caprices of the governed. The present bill he pro fessed to retard as an emanati o n from the altered s pi r it o f t h e times. His hostility to the bill, and to all the principles upon which it was founded, was conspicuous in every argument and sentiment of his speech. 14 stigmatized the measure as One br.mght forward with the molt reckless haste, crude, and in considerate in its provisions. Now, if the noble and learned lord believed all this of the measure, he ought to have moved 'its rejection altogether. (Cheers.) Other noble lords, however, and especially the two who had just spoken, although support ing the amendment, were clearly sensible of the necessity of passing such a measure as the present. But if they were sin cere in their advocacy of the measure, how came it that all the amendments upon-the bill were drawn up by the unfriendly hand of the noble and learned lord (Cheers.) ? The noble and learned lord's amendment of course went to the root and foun dation of the measure. The bill itself proposed that the govern ing bodies should be purely elective. The amendment proposed the introduction of a certain number of members for life. Was not this a complete anomaly? History, he knew, would fur nish a precedent for almost everything; but for such a proposi tion it offered no example. Lord LYND kIUR3T observed that the corporation of the City of London was a case in point : the aldermen were elected for life, the common councilmen were not. Lord MELBOURNE said that the courts of aldermen and com mon council were separate courts; his observation applied to the proposal to constitute one body—partly of annually elective and partly of members foi life. The effect of maintaining the existing aldermen must be to stamp the new system .with the Unpopularity of the old. Considering that they were making a reat change in the muni c ipal government o f a ll t h ese towns, I t did not appear to him. undoubtedly, any injustice to remove these flersons froM the situations they occupied at present, to which situations in all probability, if the deserved it, they would be again elected. At the same time he thought they would de prive the bill of a great portion of its advantage and its :race, if they forced upon these towns reluctantly, and by force of law, individuals whom they would not otherwise have chosen. (Cheers.) For these reasons ho opposed the amendment of the noble and learned lord. The Duke of WELLINGTON spoke in favour of the amend ment. After a few words in reply from Lord LyNtinuasr, the house divided— • For the amendment Agains.. it 39 Majority for the amendment —B7 The clauses proposed by Lord Lyndhurst were then added to the bill. Clauses from 27 to 33 were then, after several verbal amend ments, agreed to. The house then resumed. The wills execution, executors, and prisoners' defence bills were referred to a select committee. Adjourned at a quarter-past Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY. The speaker took the chair at four o'clock. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from forty-eight licen tiates of the college of physicians against the code of laws lately promulgated by that body. The same hon. member presented another petition firm Mr. Silas Pease, complaining that his tender to the board of admiralty f or the supply of stone had been rejected while that of an ot h erperson had been accepted, a l t h ough it was lid, per cubic foot higher than he (the petitioner) had offered to supply the article. BUSINESS OF THE nousx. On the motion of Lord JOHN Russ sr.'. it was ordered that the house should meet each day at twelve o'clock until the end of the session. COMMUNICATION WITH THE EAST. Mr WALLACE rose to ask a question of the president of the board of control on the interesting suhject of the proposed corn municatiun with the Eastiodies by the Red Sea or by the Eu phrates. The East India Company had agreed to take mea sures for establishing an intercourse by the Red Sea, but they had failed; and on Friday last the directors had put up a notice, stating that the mails for April, May, June, and July might not be carried forward to India. He did not impute blame to any quarter, because he was ignorant whether it was deserved ; but he wished to press upon the government, the East India Com pany, and the Postotfice the propriety of taking inamediate steps to forward the correspondence. He would take leave to say that he much feared the attempt to establish a communication by the Euphrates would not succeed, but he had better hopes of the route by the Red Sea. It was a strange fact that one hundred millions of the king's subjects had no direct communi cation with Europe. Siff. O..I4IIIHOUSE would say a few words in reply to the hon, member- The notice of the court of directors was given to pima% mistakes, which they feared would occur if it were dstaYed. The chairman of the smart of directors had proposed; aad ho (Sir J. C. Hob/muse) had concurred in it. As tu Steam cosimunication with India, he feared that there was too much reason for the fears expressed by the hon. member. The East India Company had not taken the steps expected from them for a direct communication from Suez to Bombay, by the Red .Sea; but, by private letters from Bombay, it_appeared kliat ast eaan-Loat w aa sea fraizi- ta W4O-01: 011,440-424.0. f--, July; hut it had already twice attempted the passage, and had been obliged to put back. It was his duty to mention that last week the board with which be was connected and the directors of the East India Company had come to a determination to build two large steam vessels to be placed on the Bombay sta tion; but the real reason why more earnest steps had not been taken for this most useful purpose was a regard to the dilapi dated finances of the company. The object was, however, ne e of national importance, and should receive every attention. The hon. n.-anber had thrown out an opinion as to the failure of the route by the Euphrates. What might be the issue, he (Sir ' J. C. Hobbouse) could not pretend to say; but he had his opi nion, and the last advices were favourable. Ile had letters from Aleppo and Antioch, both of the 19th of June, statin g that all difficulty had been remove : as to the conveyance of stores, and that some of them had reached a place on the road, and that they were on the road across the mountains to Bete. Bet supposing this expedition to succeed, it would still be the duty nI the king's government to take step s f or t h e regular.na vigation of the - Red Sea. The house watt. perhaps, aware that the southwest inonsoens blow there for. two or three months of the year with so much violence that gentlemen whom he had seen were of opi nion that no steam-boat, o f w h a t ever size and power, would able to face them. He wont,' assure the hon. member that all possible attention should be'paid to the subject, and the admiralty had issued orders to the rear admiral on the Malta station to make a full investigation of the facilities in that quarter, and a report was shortly expected from him. H e hoped he had given the hon. member a full, if not in all respects a satisfactory answer. OFFICE OP LORD CHANCELLOR. Mr. LYNCH could not allow the session to close, without ask. ing ministers whether they had come to any determination, and what, respecting the office of Lord Chancellor and his judicial duties. Lord JOHN 11.csssta..—I am obliged to the honourable membet, and to the house generally, for the indulgence it h as shown with resp ec t t o thi s a rduous question. Ministers have been, of course, unwilling to come to any decision which might be thought hasty or inconsiderate, and hence much of the delay that has occurred • but I intend to propose in th e next session a measure, by which a permanent judge for the Court of Chan cery will be appointed [cheers.] I need not say that the clues• tion of the separation of the political and judicial functions of the Lord Chancellor requires to be examined with great care, and weighed with extreme nicety; it may b e necessary to make a provision for an additional judge; but that and all other parts of the subject call for mature consideration [cheers.] REDUCTION OF CUSTOMS' DUTIES. On the motion of Mr. P. TnomsoN, the house resolved itself into a committee.on Gustains' Duties Acts. Mr. P. TuolusoN then proposed a resolution, imposing a duty, of sixpence per' pound upon coffee, the produteof the East' /tidies or Sierra Leone. . . • • • . .•, , Mr. Ewa RT approved of . thechange, rind urged that the duty on East and West India Sugars ought to ho equalised. Mr. Trio e\Etv wished that the duties on sugar should -be equalisA. There was On reason why East, India sugar should pav a higher duty than that from the West The resolution was then agreed to. Mr. C. P. TuomsoN then 'proposed a resolution, that the duties on ashes, the produce of the East Indian, should be equalised with those on the same article from other countries. Agreed to. Mr. C. P. ThomsoN then proposed that a duty of ld a bushel, be imposed on the importation of rice from the coast of Africa: There was now a difference on the duty on rice from British settlements and from other places; it was, however, hardly possible to tell where it was produced, and the present arrange ment was attended with great inconvenience.—The resolution was then agreed to. The house then resumed, the resolutions to be reported to morrow. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRTMAND) On the !notion of Lord Jon,: Itusse.u., this bill was read a .bird time and passed. Several other hills were forwarded a stage. The house adjourned at 12 o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS.-TUESDAY Mr. BERNAL brought up a message from the House of Com mons requesting their lordships to permit the Duke of Gordon and Lord Kenyon to attend before, and be examined by, the select committee of the House of Commons now sitting on orange lodges. Mr. BERN AL also brought up the Irish municipal corporations bill, the Court of Exchequer (Scotland) bill, and the forgery (Scotland) bill. The oaths abolition act amendment was read a second time. The house was occupied for some time in receiving petitions for and against the municipal corporations bill. One of these petitions, presented by the Marquis of Lansdowne, prayed the house to pass the bill in an unmutilated state. Lord BROUGHAM remarked that the petitioners were a day after the fair, for the bill was already hacked and mangled, and could not be restored to its pristine beauty. MUNICIPAL. CORPORATIONS BII.! On the notion of Viscount Melbourne, the house resolved itself into committee on the above bill. The 35th ,clause, which provides "that existing mayors and councils shall go nut of office on the election of councils under this act, and that these persons who are justices of the peace in any . borough at the time of passing this act shall continue to ex ercise their powers until the l s t day of May, 1836; and no longer," having been read, Lord LYNDHURST rose and said, he had first to propose a verbal amendment, and he should next move to strike out the wools " until the Ist day of May, in the year 1836; and no longer." To explain his reason fur proposing that amendment, he should refer to the 96th clause, which set forth, "That it shall be lawful for. the council of every borough to which his Majesty shall at any time hereafter be pleased to grant license in that behalf, and each of them is required,,from time to time, to name so many fit persons as to the council or each of the said boroughs respectively from time to time shall deem expedient, for the purpose of being qualified to receive his Majesty's com mission to act as justices of the peace in and for such boroughs and counties; and his Majesty thereupon may assign so many of the persons so'named as to his Majesty shall seem fit, to be his Majesty's justices, and to keep the peace in the said boroughs and comities," &c. Now, this involved a direct limitation of the power of the crown, to which he strongly objected. In his opinion those persons who were at present justices of the peace in boroughs or counties, in consequence of the right which they claimed under charter, should continue to hold the same situa tion which they now held, but which, under this bill, they were only empowered to hold until the Ist of May, 1836. He there fore proposed to omit the words " until the Ist day of May, 1836, and no longer.". Lord BannGui - sr said his noble and learned friend had again got the knife with which, on a former night, he had butchered the bill. Did he mean that all borough magistrates were to be justices of the peace, although they might not belong to the corporation? It was extraordinary to say that an individual should continue during his life a justice of the peace, because, as an alderman, he had exercised judicial functions. He did rot wish to argue as if he were at the bar before his noble and learned friend, and vet he felt as if he ought to plead before him, as he appeared to be sitting in judicial authority on the bill. He should, therefore, request the court (a laugh) to re consider the subject, and pass a different sentence from that which the noble and learned lord has been pleased to pronounce. (Laughter.) r. • Lord LYNDHURST had heard with patience the argum..at of his noble friend, but it had not induced him to come to a differ ent conclusion. (Hear, hear.) He saw no reason why those individuals who had filled the office of justice of the peace un der charter, and bad performed their duties efficiently, should be removed from that situation. If the noble and learned ad- , vocate choose to cause a writ of error to be moved in the other house of parliament, he must patiently await the decision. Lord BROUGHAM.—You wrote your judgment before hearing the case. (Laughter.) Viscount 111LcaollaNE said their lordships had agreed that to the principle' of th e measure ; they had admitted that a reform of the municipal corporations was necessary, and how were they now proceeding ? They were sweeping away from this bill almost everything—almost every point that could be useful. It was impossible that their lordships could have taken means more effectual to prevent this measure from remedying any of the evils that had been complained of, or from producing auy of the advantages whi c h was expected to arise from it, than those which they had adopted. (Hear.) The preservation of so mach abuse, and, moreover, the preservation of so much of ' that which it was desirable on every account to get rid of, ren dered the bill perfectly inefficient fur 'the purposes for which it was originally intended. He should make no opposition either to this or to any other amendment, because from the determina tion by which their lordships had shown themselves actuated at present, such opposition would be evidently useless. But when these amendments of their lordships should all be adopted, and when the bill should be seen in the state in which their lordships might be diiposed to leave it, it would then be matter of serious —ay, of very serious consideration, whether his Nlajesty's minis ters could proceed with a measure so mutilated and so spoiled. (" Hear, hear," from the ministerial benches.) After a few words from the Marquis of Northampton and the Duke of Richmond, the amendments were carried without a division. On the 30th clause being proposed, which relates to the divi sioh of certain boroughs into wards, Lord ELLENnotroUGH called their lordships' attention to ;erne, amenthrient s w hi c h he s h ou ld . propose to it. In the first' place,. be objected to giving hi s Majesty in council the power of *di viding the diffeient municipal boroughs into wards. Under the reform bill the boundaries of the different parliamentary bo rougSs had been taken by a parliamentary commission, and their lordships had already decided that the municipal bounda ries of such boroughs as were not parliamentary boroughs should remain as they were until parliament decided otherwise. The difficulty, however, of dividing the municipal .boroughs into wards w as greater than that of fixing their boundaries, for their lordships had no information respecting what ought ao be the internal limits of the different wards in the differenteorporate towns Of the kingdom. He was unwilling to say anything that might prove painful to the feelings of hon. gentlemen who had been engaged in arduous public duties; yet a sense of public duty compelled him to say, that in many respects the boundary commissioners as well as the corporation commissioners had not acted in a satisfactory manner. (Loud cries of `• Hear " from the opp os i t i on lords.) It was evident to him that they did not nnderstand the objects for which they were appOinted;—(hear, hear)—it was likewise evident to him that the instructions issued to them by his Majesty's government were not calculated to give them a proper notion of the duties which they had to discharge; —(hear, hear)—and having that feeliug on his mind, having a great wantof confidence in these commissioners, and also in the government which appointed these commissioners, he was un willing tottelegate to his Majesty in council the power of dividing, the municipal boroughs into wards. If such power were granted to his Majesty in council, or in other words to commissioners appointed by the government, those commissioners must also be intrusted with the power of apportioning to the different war d s their lesp ect i ve number of councillors. Thus they would have the power of giving to any party which they pleased the power of deciding all the elections in its own favour. (Cheers from the opposition benches.) By whom, then, ought this p o w er o f dividing the boroughs into wards to be exercised? It ought to be placed in the hands of those who had the fullest local informa tion, and who were the most likely to be free from all suspicion of abusing the confidence reposed in them. Now, we should choose the members of the existing corporate bodies as those who had the fullest local information; but as they were unfortunately, he did tot say justly, open to suspicion, they did not combine in themselves the two qualifications which he deemed necessary, and therefore his choice would not full upon them. Under the reform act power was granted to the magistrates assembled in quarter sessions to divide counties into districts, and to select the polling places for the several districts. There was, however, this objection to granting to the magistrates assembled in quarter sessions the power of dividing the boroughs into wards. They had not the local information that was necessary to the proper making of such divisions, though they must be admitted on all hands to be far above Suspicion. There were, however, the magistrates of the division neighbouring on the municipal borough, who most have the requisite local knowledge, and as they were above suspicion, this power might safely be delegated to them; and such being the case, he should propose an amend ment on this clause giving them that power. (Hear, hear.) He had also to object to the mode in which this clause limited the division iuto warts. Under this clause no borough was to be s ilivid&l hate swats unless.its popolation . exceeded 12,00tIsinst habitrirn- But half ilfe . 66rOug . as comprised in this bilrcontained less than 12,000 inhabitants. If their objectin dividing boroughs into wards was to avoid disturbance at the election of coun cillors, that object might be accomplished by increasing the number of polling places; but the object of dividing boroughs into wards was, as he conceived, to give all classes and interests in the community a fair chance of being equally represented. He would therefore carry the division into wards as low down as it was possible. For instance, he would assign to every bo rough of which the population exceeded 6,00), and was under 9,010 persons, two wards; to every bo roug h o f w hi c h th e popu lation exceeded 9,000, and was under 13,, three wards; to every ' M bnrongli of which the population exceeded 13,000, and was under 18,000, four wards; and so on, until you get to boroughs of which the population varied from 55,000 to 70,000 inhabitants, when he would divide the boroughs into eight wards. This mode, he contended, would be more effectual than that proposed in the bill, if the object of the promoters of it were to give each and every interest in the borough a fair abate of the representa tion. Then came the question, how were the number of coun cillors to be apportioned to each ward ? To decide that ques tion, their lordships must consider the nature and character of the constituency which they hail created. He believed that their lordships had determined to take the constituency as it stood in the bill as sent up from the House of Commons. Now, its ap roared to him that in no way could their lordships have testified their disposition to adhere as far as they could to the arrange ments of the other house of parliament than by adepting that new constituency. He thought that his Majesty's government had acted wisely in Riot creating for the municipal elections the same constituency as had votes for the elections of members of parliament. It would be dangerous, if not fatal, to the tranquillity and well-being of the corporate towns, if on every election of mayor, or town councillnr, or auditor, or any other municipal of f icer, there were a trial made of the electoral strength of the two parties in the state, which would be the case were the parliamentary and municipal constituency of the bo rough the same. He saw great advantage in appointing for the municipal boroughs a constituency lower than that of the £lO householders, for it created a dependence of the 'higher classes on the lower classes of the community, which was done away with by the reform bill. He thought that their lordships would admit that in all towns subject to municipal government the persons rated at a lower sum than £lO would have a great nu . - merical preponderancy over those who were rated at a higher suns than EH). Their lordships were, therefore, creating under this bill a constituency far more numerous than that which ex isted under the reform act. Under such circumstances it be came a question upon what principle parliament should appor tion the number of councillors allotted to the borough among its different wards—whether it should pay regard to the num bers and property combined. , For his own part, be thought that the latter was the consideration to which their lordships ought principally to look. The combined ratio of numbers and pro perty was the' principle.whicts the house adopted in saving the parliamentary boroughs from the schedhles A arid B of the re form bill—it was the principle which the house had adopted in AV-vestry act—it wa. the principle which the house had adopted in 4,y_fri excellent act which had passed for the local govern met4plManchester. lie, therefore, thought it desirable that thi4 piinciple should be adopted in this bill; for if you wished the . bill to be permanent, you ought not. to frame the censti tderkey under it in such a Manner as would deprive six-eighths of them of all real power. lie then moved that the original clause be left out of the bill, and that in lieu of it a clause con taining his amendments be inserted. The noble baron did not read his clause, and therefore its import must be gathered from his speech. __ VISCOLUIt MELBOURNE would not argue against the want of confidence which the noble baron entertained , - not only towards the corporation commissioners, but to those who appointed them. They bad been instructed as follciits.—" You shall not divide the boroughs into wards, so as to throw the rich inhabitants into one ward, and the poor into another, but you shall so divide them as to throw the rich and poor into wards together in nearly equal proportions." That appeared to him a reasonable in struction. The noble baron, who was in general such a stickler for the prerogatives of the crown, proposed to place the power of dividing boroughs into wards in the hands of the magistrates of the divisions neighbouring on the boroughs to be divided, and refused to place it in the hands Of the king in council, or in those of the commissioners whom the king in council might ap point. Now, he (Lord Melbourne) did not think the course proposed by the noble baron a prudent course. It was not a course calculated to secure a wise and tempe6te administration of the bill. It was taking at haphazard menlvith more or less discretion, with more or less interest in the local affairs and prejudices of the different boroughs, and placing in their hands a power which the noble baron said was of a very delicate na ture, and most difficult to be exercised with impartiality. He could not but think that this power would be more prudently and more skilfully exercised by commissioners appointed by the crown than it would be by any magistrates taken at haphazard. The noble baron had taken upon himself to assert, that the commissioners under the boundaries act had not conducted them selves with discretion and propriety. This was the first time that he had ever heard such a charge made against them, and all he should say in reply to it was, that all their pioceedings had passed under the review of parliament, and that the ob jections made against them had been few in number and insig nificant in point of weight. It appeared to hint that this amendment gave a still more aristocratical character to the bill than was already impressed upon it. The Earl of Witscitasua supported the amendment. He expressed his conviction that the bill was brought forward for party purposes, and for party purposes only—was intended to depressone party and raise another. The country was sick of party feelings and party- agitation, and only wished to be at rest. The'Earl of RiPow thought, that in fixing 6,00 as the limit at which division into wards was to commence it as too low, and that the bill in fixing 12,000 for the same object began ton high. He doubted the policy of leaving the division of boroughs into wards to the magistrates of divisions bordering on boroughs, instead of leaving it to the king in council. He thought that the king in council was the party to whom this power of divi sion ought to be left. The best plan, as it appeared to him, would be for their lordships to enact in the schedules of the bill precikely those divisions which they wished to have made. He admitted, however, that in the present session it was too late to take that course. To whom, then, ought this power to be in trusted? In his opinion to the king in council. By granting this power to the magistrates of the neighbouring division, you would, place them in an inconveniently invidious position— (hear, hear)—because. though they . might be perfectly im partial, it did not follow that the inhabitants of the boroughs would think them so. In conclusion, he expressed an opinion that in every case where a town had a population of 10,000 souls, there two wards should be established. The Duke of RICHMOND objected to that part of the amend ment which threw upon . the neighbouring magistracy the re sponsibility of dividing towns into wards. He thought the power ought to be confided to commissioners appointed by the crown, because, if they should happen to do wrong, it would be in the the power of their lordships to remedy that misconduct after wards. Lord Baouonaat protested against the argument now too common in the house, namely, that of binding all the parties to a project , of a bill, when it was first introduced, to every principle it might contain. Great discontent existed in various parts of the country owing to the manner in which the 'magis trates at quarter sessions had divided counties into districts under the reform act. • Lord SXRLMERSDA Le said, that as chairman of the quarter sessions of the peace for one division of thecounty of Lancaster, he had been concerned in the nomination of-the polling places in that county, under the reform act, and he could say that the magistrates with whom he had acted discharged those duties with the utmost cheerfulness and unanimity, and he could as sure the house that no dissatisfaction had, up to the present moment; been expressed by any party as to the arrangements which bs them bad been so made. For his own pert, be would say he would most che er f u lly un d erta k e the duties which, under the amendment of his noble friend, would devolve upon the ma gistracy, and he did not know any magistrate in the same dis trict as himself who would not also most cheerfully take his share of the labour. As it had been said the number of magis trates attending petty serions was small, he would suggest that instead of the clause confining these duties to them, it should be provided that •the magistrates of the diiision should bold a special sessions -for the purposes of this bill, and he had no doubt that special sessions would - be numerously attended. On the whole, he thought thematter would be better placed in thnhands of the magistracy than in those of a body of cemmissioncts. He, however, had no objection to the magistrates first making a report to the King in Council, and that on that report final sr raugements should be made. The Earl of HARROWHY said that under existing circum stances be had strong objections to leave the matter of this divi sion into wards to the decision of the King in council. That body must rely upon information coming from a body of com missioners, and it was quite clear to him, looking at the manner in which they were appointed, and the manner in which they had already executed the duties intrusted to them, they would exercise their functions with one particular view and object. (-lea; hear.) Seeing, therefore the quarter from 'which the information was to come, ho owned ,he should regret to see the apportionmont of these boroughs into wards left to the King council. At the same time, he felt considerable doubts.as to the propriety of the mode proposed by his noble friend. He agreed with the noble individuals on the cross benches in thinking there would be great inconvenience in throwing upon the•ma iistracy the responsibility of dividing the boroughainto wards. The proposition that they should report to the King in council was well worthy of consideration, and he thought that would he the least objectionable mode of proceeding. With regard to the apportionment of the number of councillors to each ward, he thought the good feeling of the people would' be best secured by giving the Caine number to each. He threw out this suggestion for consideration before the bill again was discussed, and in the meantim e b e s h ou ld h o p e th a t the clauses proposed, by his noble friend would be adopted, subject of course to dis cussion in a future stage. After a few words from the Earl of HARROWDY in explana tion, and from the Marquis of Bute in support of the amend ment, clause 36 was struck out, and the amended clause proposed by Lord ELLENBOROUGH ordered to stand part of the bill: , Clauses 37 to 46 inclusive, after a few verbal amendments proposed by Lord LYNDHURST, were agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the bill. On clause 47 being proposed, Tice Marquis of BETE objected to the imposition of any fine on parties refusing to serve the office of mayor or councilman, and moved that the clause be omitted. After a short conversation, in which Lord BROUGHAM, Viscount MRLBOURNk, and Lord LYNDHURST, took part, the motion was agreed to, and the clause struck out. Clauses 48 to 52 inclusive were agreed to without any dis cussion, Lord LYNDHURST observing that in a future stage of the bill he should move a clause, with Which he was not at present pre pared, for the purpose of doing justice to the town-clerks and others who by this bill would be removed. He should bring forward an amendment to that effect on the recommitment of the bill. The clauses up to 64 being money clauses, were, upon the motion of Lord LYNDHURST, agreed to without discussion. On clause 65 Lord WHARNCLIFFE observed that this and the next clause went to give to the town-council a power of licensing which now lay with the magistrates. He considered that the power would be better in the hands of the magistrates, as it now was by law. He moved, accordingly, that clauses 65 and 66 be omitted. Viscount MELBOURNE remarked that the mode in which the licensing powers were exercised by magistrates had for a long series of years been complained of. There was an infinife deal of meddling. Gentlemen were always fretting themselves about what was going on at "the One Bell," or "the Red Lion." For his part, he was sure the town-council. would be able to regulate - this matter in a more satisfactory manner th an th e magistrates. The Duke of Rteinumen proposed that if the power were transferred to the town-council, It should be under the same restriction with respect to beer licenses as under the present system. _ Lord Briocatisn considered the proposition to strike out those clauses excessively absurd. The noble ford wopid not tinder other Circumstances have proposed if, but now be knew that he might carry anything. Certainly this amendment would render the bill less acceptable to the people; the noble lord Surely must be aware of this. He referred to the excellent working of the new vestries, and staled that he was morally cer tain the town-council would execute their tasks in the. exercise of this power better than the magistrates. He ; ould nu t cljeide, however: he wmiid no more think of dividing on flie4neiti‘n than be would think of taking up the house in his hands, lords and all, and carrying it over to the other side of the way. Lord A s HRURTON remarked that more extensive powers would be given to the town-council than to the new vestries, which he acknowledged worked well. Nobody ever dreamed before the introduction of this bill of putting such a power into the hands of a popularly elected body. No better plan could be devised of upsetting all form and order. The Earl of RA ,NOR thought that the town-conncil bein directly interested in the affa irs th e y h a d to a d m i n i s ter woul d manage them. The Earl of WINCHILSEA supported the amendment, and thought great evil would result from giving such power to the town-council.--Amendment agreed to. Laird LYNDHURST, on clau se 67 , th e p ur port of whic h was to ebat that the council should appolfit charitable trustees, proputtOd that for "the tat day of January," in the line where it first ocCurred, should be substituted "the lit day of August." The words were, "The first council of such borough. to be elected under the provisions of this act shall, on the Ist day of January, in the year 1836, appoint a fit number of persons; not less than nine persons, who shall be charitable trustees of such borough." His noble and learned friend had a bill on the sub ject of charitable trusts, which it was utterly impossible could pass into a law that session from the time to which they had come, and the complexity of many of the details. He was anxious to give the measure his best consideration, and if the noble and learned lord would bring it in at the commencement of the next session, and give their lordships something to do at that period, a law might be made upon this difficult and delicate subject of charitable trusts before August, and no inconvenience would be experienced. He would, in addition to August, guard himself by saying "or until p ar li ament s h a ll ot h erw i se or d er i t ;" or, should nothing be don e b e f ore A ugust, he should prop ose t o have the matter referred to the Court of Chancery; and then perhaps his noble and learned friend—perhaps the lords com missioners, would have an opportunity of settling it as they thought hest. Lord BROUGHAM said that if be had been supported by his noble friend at the head of the government in the resolutions he proposed two months ago, and if they bad been carried, a bill might have been at once founded upon them, and migbt have been before the end of the session made into a law. He agreed with his noble and learned friend as to the delicacy and difficulty of dealing with charitable trusts, and, protesting against being .considered in any degree guilty of the delay, agreed to bring in his bill on the very first week of the session, if he should be in that house. The amendment was agreeik to, The, clauses up to 74 were\.then, as well as we could collect from the observations made across the table, agreed to with some verbal alterations; as were also those as far as 99, without any uoterial alteration, excepting such as bad been previOusly agreed on by noble lords on troth sides of the house: .ctriese 101, Lord LvivntruirsT• proposed an amendment, to the effect that the existing recorders'in boionglis, being barris- AI; G L;,T 21. 1535. tern of five yearc* standing. should retain their present offices unaffected bM the provisions of the bill, Ohigh weti agreed to witi s iout a division. The remaining clauses, with some unimportant verbal amend ments, were then agreed to. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE wished to ask the noble and learned lord (Lyndhurst) whether Ute principle of qualification which he hid proposed was still intended by him to apply to those corporators who having been self-elected held their offices for life ? Lord LYNDnUKST said, than at the time he pmposed the amendment it was certainly his intention that part of the town councillors should be elected for life, in the proportion of one fourth of the whole number. He would now take the oppor tunity to add, that in consequence of what had passed since be proposed that amendment, he should probably find it necessary to make some alteration with regard to the qualification of the 'town councillors. A desultory •conversation ensued which it -was unde-stood ended in an order that the bill as amended should be printed and be recommitted for further consideration on Friday next, (this day week.) HOCSA OF COMMONS, T UESDAY . The house met at twelve o'clock. The public institutions bill was withdrawn, after a. short dis- Cussion. The cruelty to animals bill went through committee. The committee on the public carriages (metropolis) bill was. in the absence of Mr. Alderman Wood, postponed till Tuesday, as was also the second reading of the steam-vessels (Thames) bill. On the motion of Lord J. Russell, the prisons' regulation bill was read a third time and passed. The special constables' bill was considered in committee, and the house having resumed, the report was brought up and agreed to, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time to-day. The St. Margaret't rectory bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. The lords' amendments to the bankrupts' estates bill were considered, and agreed to; and the report upon the charity commissioners bill was brought up and agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time to-day. Upon the motion of Mr. P. Thornton, the tonnage admea surement bill was read a third time and passed. The report on the customs' acts was brought up and agreed to. The wood duties' bill went through committee, was reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-day. The spirit licenses and wine permits' bill was read a second time, and ordered to he committed to-day: The clerk of the crown bill went through committee, was re ported, and ordered to be read a third time to-day. The consolidated fund bill was read a second time, and or dered to be committed on Friday. The Exchequer.bills bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-day. The forgery (Scotland) bill 'and the Court of Exchequer (Scotland) bi►l were read a third time, and passed. The insolvent courts (Ireland) bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-day. ' The larceny (Ireland) bill was read a second time, and or dered to be committed to-day. The report of the sheriffs (Ireland) bill was received, anclehe bill ordered to be read a third time to-day. The constabulary force (Ireland) bill went through committee. The letters patent bill went through committee with amend ments—report to-day. A report from the select committee appointed to inquire into the existence of Orange lodges in that portionof our army which is in the colonies was presented to the house. The report stated, that the committee had summoned befoie them Colonel Fair man, deputy grand treasurer and deputy secretary of the Loyal Orange Lodge of Great Britain, and required him to produce a letter-book nhich lie admitted he had in his possession, contain ing ccpies of letters addressed to persons in the colonies, and answers thereto, and having reference to that association, and that he had refused to produce the said letter-book. The hon. member having bander.' in the report, moved that Colonel Fair man be ordered to attend at the bar to-morrow.—Ordered. On the motion that the report of the marriage act amendment bill be further considered, Mr. Divett said " he had art amend ment to propose to the second clause of the bill, to the effect that a marriage with the sister of a deceased wife where there was a child, or children, under twelve years of age, should be exempt from the operation of the bill. There could be no doubt that cases might occur where it might ne of essential importance both to the father and the children that such a marriage should be permitted." The discussion, however, was stopped by an bon. member moving that the house be counted, when there being found to be not forty members present, the house ad journed. HOUSE OF LORDS.--WEogesna v. The West India slave owners' compensation bill was read a third time and passed. A great number of petitions - were presented, principally against the corporation? bill. The . peace preservation (Ireland) bill was passed through th e committee, with some verbal amendments. _ _ Lord DuNcANicoN called the attention of their lordships to the subject of some temporary accommodation being provided upon which he wished to receive the instructions - of the house Left sitting. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAY. The Speaker took the chair at five o'clock. CARLOW ELECTION. Mr. C. BA RCL A Y brought up the report of the committee ap pinted to try the merits of this election, declaring that Mr. N igors hod Mr. Sheriff . Raphael were not duly elected; that Mr. Cavannagh and Mr. Bruen were duly elected knights of the shire; and that neither the petition nor the opposition were frivolous or vexatious. CONSTABULARY FORCE (IRELAND) BILL. Lord Mom>Ent brought up the report of the committee on this bill, which was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.. EXCHEQUER BILLS' BILL. This bill went through committee and was reported. ORANGE SOCIETIES. Mr. Huai gave notice that he should present a petition from Dublin, to-morrow, complaining of the conduct of the recorder of Dublin. The. hoe. member then moved. that Col. Fairman be called to thp bar. of the house. The colonel had refused to anstver questions put to hini by the orange ledge'conamittee. The colonel was called in and examined touching the questions he had refused to answer. The following, among others, are some of Colonel Fairinan's answers to questions puttc; him by the speaker:— Have you answered all the questions that have been put to you ?—Yes, gratuitously almost. Is there anv thing that you have refused to answer ?—Not question thatl am aware of. Have you produced any document which was demanded ?—I have produced a great variety of documents. • Have you produced all the documents that were asked —All that I consider documents I have produced, or rather they were extorted from me. Have you produced all that were required ?-1 don't know that I have; but I have produced them all with the greatest pleasure —no, not with the greatest pleasure, but, with great readiness. Is there any book that you have refused to produce ?—Not ans. that I considered the Committee entitled to call for. Is there any book required from you which you have refused to produce r—Yes ; there is one. For what reason have you refused to produce it ?—Becanse it is a private book. It never was before the Grand Lodge, or the Committee of the Grand Lodge; and if they had asked for it, I should have refused it. Does that Book contain any information respectinr the pro ceedings of Orange Lodges ?—lt contains the answers to some letters; but they more particularly relate to private matters, unconnected with Orange Lodges. By Mr. Sergeant Jac snn.—Does the book already produced before the committee belong to you or to the orange lodge wit ness? I found it in the office, and therefore consider that it belongs to the lodge. I received it as an heir-loom of my office. But the book you refuse to produce you consider as your own private property . ?—I do, certainly. Does it contain private correspondence ?—Yes, in many in stances it does. I made an offer to the committee which I was blitzed to withdraw, as no honourable mind e4uld act under threats.—Left sitting. LORD MULGRAVE,AT THE DUBLIN THEATRE His excellency the Lord-Lieutenant commanded the •= performance on Monday; and if Lord Mulgrave .be traitor to his King, and a rebel to his country,. a revolu tionist in feeling, and a repealer in principle, the exhibi tion he witnessed (in that evening must have gratified hif, lordship to his heart's content. Now, we by no meani charge his excellency with entertaining these opinions, or of harbouring any such sentiments—in fact, we do not believe that he does either—still less are we disposed to hold him .accountable for the treason and :sedition that was uttered on. the occasion—for the cheers with which every rebellious allusion were received,nr the yells tif execration with which the name of every thing loyal was hooted. Such a course would be a manifest injustice. and opposed as we are to Lord Malgraye's administration and to his politics, we will not deprive hini of an exemp tion from responsibility in a case like thiS, claimed. for. jis predecessor, Lord Haddington. It will • be recollected how the Tatter no'hienientwati black guarded. because a few silly boys waved Orange . pozket-bandker-• chiefs over their heacis,and shouted out some conserva, tive sentiments with the accompaniment of the Kentish • fire. We contended then that -Lord Haddington ought not to be held responsible. for these things, innocent in themselves, however foolish they might have been; and the rather, for that he did not possess the power of re pressing them. We fully concede to Lord Mulgrave now that which -we claimed for Lord Haddingto.n then: at the same time, that we cannot avoid contrasting the viciousness of one display with. the comparative inno cence of the other. Amongst the manifestations of the evening were the following: — Three cheers for O'Connell—repeated at intervals throughout tho night. Three cheers for a repeal of the union. • A groan for Louis Philip. A clap for the French revolutionists. D—n the House of Lords. A groan for the hatchet-faced Duke of Wellington, and bad . luck to him. Ireland as she ought to be. To these and such like expressions —some of them top gross for insertion—was the representative of Majesty condemned to listen for a whole evening; and we can imagine how his excellency must have felt, when on Miss Adami concluding the solo of the National Anthem with tl shouts no"—" God save Lord . Mulg,rave".f— met his Vice-regal ear.—Dublin Evening Mail. SECOND ARRIVAL FROM CHINA.--The .Mandarin, the pro, 7 perty of Messrs. Bewley, of William -street, Dublin, the sec' r id ship ever freighted from China for that port, :Arrived in Kings town harbour on Friday, with 8,623 chests of green and black teas.—Cork Constitution. AN AMIABLE YOUNG LADY.--This is a simpleoeft, simper ing, milk-and-water, fait . ..haired, pretty creature, who vssents to every word that every body says, and has a continual reiteratinh of bless sacs, and dear Ines, in a tone of wneder to every thing that is related, and whom no theme seems Pithee to tire or to in terest. She disclaims allpiivilege of thinking for herself, ; and professes always to be nj u udge, whatever the question be, whe ther of religion or science, politics or weather. She seems tobe aware of nothing, but that she has a pretty face, indicated by the studied arrangements of her curls and her dress. This USA tore sings sweetly, and plays with a languid unmeaning air. She can dance too, and she can read a k reach motto upon a bride's cake or card seal. She cal paint butterflies and jessamine, TurthAmort , it iis riecessar y rim t she shoi , ld be tinder twenty No or past forty five, tall thin and of a fair carnpleßieri.