The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-12-16 00:00:00

"i ' CHARITY Irs. T. S rERPOOL FEMALE ORPHAN ASYLUM SUNDAY MORNIN( ERMONS tRCHI OND CALI M DIXON, Cha. 12th D Books E IS HEREBY GIVEN, that t . THOMAS WEN ,ThI§SOLVED JAMES TAYI RPNJAMIN VENT VY GIVEN, t IENRY HAMPTON (EENHEAD RAILWAY. f ONE POUND per SHARI from the 20th of Decem PARTNER• 3 TAYLOR 'EGART, as Ras WI )EN. c HOTEL, gGING-DITCH 1 House 1 ?ARIS CHI THE S 1 on th W I UV 'F. WESTALL res V V • cial Public, and Fa i Table COMPTC CLOAK VELVETS, SATI e been c Utility SSORTII )peds. R iiismAS MIT - - public not ice to t SITORIES.. Ha Ia addi Gardens, Octot SHAW I ts. and Taos. WKENNI JAMB S SRI Joanna ABEL, 27, Ea5t...... ROBERT KANE, M.D., Prof ROBERT HUNT, Crampton ( ANTHONY MEYLEB. M.D.. )AN. Cht JIR) V,DINARD STANLEY THOMAS GRIER ISAAC M. D'Ot P. WILSON, Re gi (Sig) TOLER OS a, Gov. rar, Ro' le and co tle Abel, Es . G versal char numerat t its m 12th Octobe * A,Sti; LADI N HOI R 0 0 AND -OTHER lANTLES with El, lder Wint WOOLLEN CLOAKS )AKS:.I6s. COMPTON H I all Co lid SON PATENT Fl )F CHILDRENS' CLOAKS RESISTING PRESC( S. WOODS. jun., ) the above, Milne s Patent Fire Resisting S thereon, t 1812. The s fresh nd Son c )üblin S Fire-pro I witness TANLEY, Chairman Oct. PROOF SAFETY BOXES, took tufty in WINS; N IMPORTS AN ica, in HE DONCASTI IL AM SARAH 'HITHEA7 IHIS EVENIN( STREE7 EFl't Of the TWO CI PENTLAND AND riM 1 LLE I R AND I f ME S. TING lORTH as t aMAR wil Lipma Ir. R. li AMERICAN CIRCI. NIGIII the 16 OCKT )INAR 11DAY MORNING he trium )MPTOM an effect in tion on which it rests, but on We con. or the r to call Both t Mr. H of the two produ Holm , that t tion of M iding bi how t tain it. All land s )ther c n our ;ention -Mayor Mayor on account prover Itention of remar R THEATR RS. FITZ POND hen politic nd our cc ill. Very true, th but is tt the vi 3. men= not already consider .om war ies, but 3 term it) r n a very c of Hor Y obeye hen, t to time, to ner (who hospit fter convietiQr, v to his ld water —namely hick lie wa rain sent to t having rallied, and beco bout a fortnigh afterward rnd had a violent cough cell A It was stated some painful reflection was evidently in a very feebl was broken up, an last star pital," WI lent cells he legislature; and th licy anc imanitv ad sen th mercy, anc At the expiration of I 1 nongst the boys, in i_ _ I rr f pain in his chest, was much t. 'll sed had recorded more fully by us, without con- and they certainly give rise in of health throughout. His constitution He could scarcely b ml in ci he . was Exchange for the purr the river, or v if Liver ,d, and only i No. 1 boarded, and that it was ,verno )spital, with th lion 1 th _, ; 4 I be with dysentery for twelv vidence being heard, said that, as ar lual, he lamented that the man had, under the ibjected to the confinement treatment in that accelerated his deatl pect might be sup- He himself, how- ume to judge so.competently as the I matter to the conscientious or nstance, to the effect that the dec the visitation of God, in a natural way, but led an opinion that the deceased, considering hi v confinement, as stated. The ccroner, ho' t such a verdict went to attach an is riot perhaps meant to ceavey— ler having that the uch effect when he visited 'aim d had undergoing it. On the ccntre .orclam f mortal deca' n whom to experimentalise in f physical, and, we may add, mental en- ce. involved in solitary confinement on bread and Due nourishment, hospital comfort, and com- were more likely to ef ct his re- ,earance ; and the law, in the sentenc properly pro- him, never conte plated anythin, term of imprisonment, with hard labour were enabled to endure it— —not el We have maudlin sympathy for felons, whatever their former neither do we lor the surgeon with acting beyond - _ trictboundaries of their duty ; though we think that rcise of their discretion, red a little more minutely, that solitary confinement a such meagre diet, was to a declining man, who a accustomed to some of the luxuries of life, such more trying re alterative than to one )bust health, to whom they could only have me That the governor had his power of endurance .ct of his consulting the sl .hr the same as thos in the 3 the exception of the absence, in th If such be the fact, (and 1? from such a qua far too comfortable, 'r which they. are intended ooner an amendment is better, both on the score of good What the contents of "the nce of the we cannot tell, as they did not transpire r. of I ting our tever their character, no great dread taMed, we think, of epistles from such a pregnant with " tr sons, stratagems, If the v )mplimentary'to a gaoler—be a crime, why ilitate its commission by permitting prisoners the of pens, ink, and paper, which4ay easily be kept and their reach. If, on the other hand, the prison ulations permit the furnishing of the materials, and keeper has the legal power to intercept and peruse ;r, strong doubts,) the simplest course, if they con- n offensive matter, is to destroy them in the prisoner's nce, and thus cure him for the future of hi or scribendi. These are, however, minor points. What mainly complain of he uncontrolled power given herre developed) to gaoler to inflict a new and ditional punishment on a prisoner after his judicial himself sole witne nence ithout the enquiry and immediate mantic dmit, in the e) of the law, civilly and politic 1; but he ought not to be so fdr outlawed as to !aprice of any individual r the mercy o thed with r !ntence pronounced by a leg We fully recognise the necessit) pline in a gaol, and of additional punishrne icted on delinquents who infringe t but we d of any be he who of be so v We doubt not but such a power is given as ; but its delegation is impolitic le tempers of gaol( re frequen the presumption is, rcised at times without that d ch would naturally characterise the ( who, not being in immediate ire unenfluenced by personal ice. We would, therefore, urge upon the authori n the Prison Committee, nent on this point. No new pt 1,, - , ond thc v deprivation or restraint, L lved in I without m: airs active N ,tins justices, whose aid way readily Such a course would vin the la' )leion of undue severit .1 ement of our g irely constit remove from their keepers a burden of respoo e doubt not, they would JACAL NEW to requi ,o be the high sheriff of Mr. M Belfast i the estimable ineurt e;irable an object, and the subject having met wan ial approbation of the majority of the congregation. th 'ery reason to :hope that Great Crosby will not long ,enerally looked upon as of the temple of God 11; WHEAT ( )1. that h the advert ht, we ttentiot We shall say sometr -This evening those two wags, Messrs. 11, the clowns, take their benefit, They b. something very humorous to amuse e will mak, 1 clever ride A. new candi- COMMITAL OF A BOY AND HIS MOTHER. —Yesterday, at the Police-court, Thomas Lunt, a shop boy for Mr. James hunt snd shoe maker, Ranelagh-street, and Mar- had to say r receivir some time ; and on 'ea to have been ed the youth h ,ng to a pawnbroker's in everal pairs They bad been rs. Lunt. The little boy, when asked what he plied, " I took the shoes and laid them down illiam one of the rnosl d accomplished ac ses of the day is engaged . this theatre, where she Is playing a laughable part in a farce called " Out of Place," and a number of characters in a Monopolologue entitled " The Belle of the Hotel, or American Sketches." She changes her dress in the latter • with the most surprising facility and quickness, dances a • Pas Sulnhide in a manner that draws forth the laughter of the audience much humour and vivacity. his " Skirts in the Man abou as ever. Mrs. Fitzwilliam t; and sings several songs with Mr. Hoskins is also engaged, town" is good, and as original ces her benefit to night, when ay, the strates 'ere occupied a consid en the ship Cale k, and tlia't the Caledonia did not haEl t vas within twelve feet of the 3oard the Caledonia, stated prevented the acciden übt the pilot was pla( its, but they consideret The'sehooner claimed £l5 to be left to the harbour r pilot, and others .on y hailed the schoor.er put their helm hard a- but the details of the dam aster, and the award is to ,pointment aablishmery contemplated by table and comp Grindley and made public tlrough the advertisement 4- most complete, rents are in every .00ms and sleeping apartments are , room hbourl Artion - of which he intenc is to lay out a amusement and invigoratin tuated THE FUND the St( of the children, nearly we are glad to hear, al- WEDNESDAY EVENING.—The business at 10t of the least importance as re- spects our own securities. There were very few bargains 'oncluded, though prices continue fully supported. Consols Account closed 93i to 94; Bank Stock. 172 to 173 •:•nts. Reduced, 941 50 , • Three-and. Annuif to I; Exchequer Bills to 525. a-Half per Cents. Reduced, 1001 to 101 ; Long ;s, 12, 9-16 to ; and India Bonds, 455. to 475. premium. Business has improved in the foreign market. Speculative stocks have advanced, and Spanish and Mexican lead the way. risen to 181 to 19 ; ditto New, ' for the Three Spanish Actives have ; Mexican, 311 to 3-; Dutch Two-and-a-half per Cents., 521 to 53 Five per Cents., 104; Portuguese Five per Cents ; ditto Three per Cents., 22i to 331; Danish, 8: Brazilian, 69 to 70 ; Belgian, 102 to ; and Colombian , 2 to a. The jobbers are preparing for the foreign half - mo nthl y we con- settlement, which takes place to-morrow. arid ditto 181. to THEATRE ROYAI King has c —Signor Hervio Nano in the Gnome d the utmost surprise. His representation of Baboon exceeds every thing in originality we . ever saw. Mesurier, and all others, are completely distanced. h—his facility iu walking on apparently Gouffe, His feats of stre inaccessible place of the proscenium, and under the d on a flat surface ith much comicality and humour He walks up th 'eh, with as mud} Some of his trici theatre dos 'o enable - Mr. W. J. Hat Gnome verpool :omime, which is intended to surpa seen in Liverpool ad to prepare appear in a new d Maid," in which sustains the pa__ _ to King, the Baboon, and the Fly, ir " Gnome Fly." Nano is one of the humour. mirth, and magnificence. — Nano takes his benefit. He wit of interest, entitled the " Indiar of Bibboo, a monkey lays the Gnoz is of th, MEETING OF THE DOCK OMMITT Ir. weekly meetin ing members Barclay, Holt, Holmes, 'e present, Molyneux, Aikin, Bullet' v-Mnnre. "%Anon Ili 111Pli , Evans, and Nicol. The Sub-Committee had n( report of their proceedings to make. The Chairman state( that the Committee inspected Clarence Graving Dock of Saturday, for the purpose of ascertaining the best mode o Royden, Middletc making the intended lengthening. After some discussion it was resolved, on the motion of Mr. Holmes, that the dock should be lengthened according to the plan proposed by the deputation from the Ship-builders' Association. John Pro bert, who has been a dock-gate man for 29 years, and is now aged G 6, being infirm, was allowed an allowance of 15s. per week, for three months. An application from Mr. Hugh M'Bride, master of Clarence Dock, for the appointment of a graving dock foreman, and recommending Nelson Dunlop, was referred to the Harbour Masters' Sub-Committee. The Dock Solicitor reported, that notice had been given of the intention to apply to Parliament for several bills which would affect the interests of the dock trust; he was instructed to watch those bills and to report thereon. The consignee of the steamer Nithsdale, applied for the shed at the west end of the north side of Clarence Graving Dock to be boarded up for the safety of the goods placed therein.—Ordered on the report of the surveyor that the cost would amount to only £3O. The North Harbour Master reported that the work ing of the system for the accommodation of the New York liners in the 'Waterloo Dock had been satisfactory ; and it was referred to the Harbour Masters' Sub-Committee. to iew to accommodate all the five lines there. proceeded to some financial business, parated. report with The committ and shortly afterward THE LATE UNFORTUNATE COpLISION ON THE MER ,..Y.—We lately recorded the collision, in the night of the 30th ult, between the steamers Prince of Wales and Royal Victoria, by which one man, W. Brown, a seaman and passim ger, instantaneously lost his life, and four others were seri judge, L ously injured, two of whom are yet in a precarious state at With respect to the fatality, it be nquest should be held, and the case involved acluestion of jurisdi swing to th :lave taken plat the act affecting them to inquire into those hich the cause of death and the death itself r,x within the district for which, respectively, )pointed. In the present case the evidence t conflicting as to the spot where the cause of Me, our borough coroner applied to the I Some-office ons as to whether his jurisdiction 'pounded by the mid chan- Cheshire than the Lancashire shore ; however, settled the q ,t the coroner c The accident. we believe, took place rather nearer the I John hackney co Martindale ARTIST FUND. f on Tc &MPHITIU but on this ther We are of opinion )1 has no jurisdic- Cheshire is the proper officer to hold an inquest )lace where the accident happened to be within _W. W. Follett. C. Compton Id, that though the assumption, in ieral one, vet that he would not hich he did, On Monday e Churton, the coroner for L Peninsula, accordingly came ay morning last, to hold the in- down to Seacot attest The body N town in a hears n a commadioup outbuilding On There w )ut only a fey bour-master, also a that the case would I trait-pai nined to perplex her, said, very pretty )t . them were ( e thn t T of strut' the young lad naongst and fined the numbey of w s of the vessel: or wh( dental. The inquiry did not, ho least to any satisfactory extent. Mr. Askew, our bar rs, it being understood into in a nautical point of view, for of deciding - whether blame attached to either or to on was purely ac wever, involve that point a Mr. Wardle appeared as so Jenkins for for which we could licitor for the owners of the Victoria, and Mr those of the Prince, After great delay, wed the body, or rather the face of s deposited, a small not account, the jury the deceased, in an outhous portion of the lid of the coffin, constructed for the being revealed. Several witnesses were then exa m each side, and some mutual blame was attached by part of the enquiry . to any practical result mselves with the general admission that the night was iewhat thick and hazy. They were not in fact competent n their own knowledge or experience to decid( owed ii curious evidence adds to be entrusted' to' a . _ jry; ple verdict of " acci lentar dealt or eithei of them Inajraity 'e, of whow . his . wifp Sgd PAINTER AND BARRISTEE A.' BRUSII last, in the Cot " No doubt you were," r( •• and I fea as you are (loin now Very possibly lir, and Your's calm, and pro( r. At lust, the la Miss, upon my_ w'ord.you very promptly replied, I would return tue compliment, Sir, ffl were not on my 'oyage to join•his law! on Mc Iqr. Wil ADJOURNED MEETING OF THE TOWN COUNCIL sting of the Town Council was hall on Wednesd he Mayor presided y could come before the council for confirma proceedings were not confirmed to-day, they (firmed as a matter of course, as. the ten days would be c would be e: The MA' this circumstance, if Sir Thomas Brancker had not intro duced it. The matter rested with the council. Mr. NICOL observed that the dock proceedings would not take up much time in reading. lf, as had been remarked, they were not confirmed to-day, they would, in conformity with the act, be confirmed as a matter of course, so that, if the council meant to assert that right they must do so to day, otherwise the time would be past. Everybody knew how long the discussions on the education question were ; he lrobability was, that after the discussion to-day no hu ness would betaken. and the Sir Tuom :KER added, that as far as the proceed tees went their confirmation to-day but for those of the Dock Committee was not indisr - The MAYOR asked the council whether the dock proceed ings should be now read ? (Cries of " Yes, yes.") Mr. BIRKETT suggested that it would be more convenient if the proceedings of the Dock Committee were placed higher upon the summons paper. This was the third time, within twelve months, that this very question had been mooted. ..—lt would answer much better, I think, to proceedings of the Education Committee the last upon the list. (Laughter.) The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK then read the proceedings, which have already been reported in the STANDARD, and they were confirmed. A.DJOURNED DEBATE ON THE EDUCATION QUESTIO In order to render the adjourned debate more intelligble to our readers, we may mention that the Education Committee, in their proceedings, put forth the following resolution—the confirmation of which was moved by Mr. MOLYNEUX, and seconded by Mr. HODGSON : "The Education Committee, looking back with satisfac tion to the proceedings of the past year, think it right to state the course which, after mature deliberation, they pro pose pursuing. By the established system, a sound educa• tion, based upon'religion, is imparted to all who will seek its blessings, without excluding any but such as refuse to read the Bible in common with their fellow Christians ; an excep tion, therefore, for which the committee do not feel respon sible. The daily business of the schools commences and closes with prayer. The Bible is read daily, and all who will )enefit of sound rel►gious instruction, )f the Church of England ; but which .dentioned instruction is arced upon those who may conscientiously object to it; and therefore the children of Roman Catholics and of dissenters are not required to learn the Church Catechism, nor to attend church on Sun day. The committee would appeal to the dispassionate judg- ment of all whether this systini, alike removed from intole rance on the oneiand, and the still greater evil of latitudina rianism on the other, is not such as should be maintained, and be alone maintained, by the Town-council ; whether it be not admirably adapted to effect the greatest possible good, without violating charity ; for however they may regret that any should exclude themselves from participating in its bene fits, the committee cannot open wide the door of admission unless by diluting, so to speak, or accommodating, the Bible to the prejudices of those who refuse to receive it in its en- tirety and purity, or, in deference to the same prejudice, by dispensing with its use altogether. For neither alternative is the committee prepared. The first involves a proposition inadmissable in a Christian community ; the latter would be in effect to administer secular instruction alone without in culcating a duty on the only sure basis of religious principle, a system which the committee conscientiously believe would make them the vehicle of a curse and not a blessing. Both these are alike inconsistent with the sacred trust reposed in the committee in a nation where Christianity, in its purest practice, is established as a part of the law of the land. The committee are persuaded that the town of Liverpool, fired of the continued agitation of this subject, will gladly receive the determination of the council to maintain the schools on the sound basis of religious principle, and therefore in the faith ful and earnest discharge of their duty the committee an nounce their purpose, under the authority of the council, to maintain inviolably the system of education now pursued in the schools, and while they allow to others, as fully as they claim for themselves, the right of acting according to the dictates of conscience, they would respectfully deprecate the continued agitation of a question whiCh, if the present reso lution be confirmed by the council, can scarcely be discussed to any useful purpose, nor without peril to charity and peace." To this resolution Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE, seconded by Mr. TURNER, moved the following amendment : " That it be referred to the committee to consider whether, after establishing in the Corporation Schools a system of re ligious instruction based on the principles of the Church of England, and in all respects in strict accordance with her tenets, such a modification cannot.be made in the existing rules and regulations as would render the schools more avail able for the classes of the poor professing different religious opinions, by allowing their children the benefit of the secular instruction of the schools, the parents giving an assurance to the committee that their religious duties shall not be neg lected." The MAYOR having stated that the council would now ;ed with the adjoUrned debate Mr. PLATT requested, Town-Clerk would read the Corporations' Act. efore it commenced, that the .?d section of the Municipa 11 upon Mr. Asp The MA.You. said his business was to nal!, who moved the adjournment. ___ BRANCKER said Mr. Aspinall was not present ,out, and would not trouble the council on thi he had the The M AYOR observed that as Mr. Platt had already spoken on the question, it could only be with the permission of the council that he could make any remarks. Mr. PLATT was not going to make any remarks ; he oni3 wished the 92d clause of the:Municipal Corporations'Act reac If the Town-Clerk had not the act, he (Mr. Platt) had. rowN-CLERK thcn read the section, which enacts any borough shall be expended fo ablic benefit of the inhabitants and the improvernento funds c No member having risen for a few seconds, the MAYOR said it would be his duty to put the amendment if no one rose to address the chair. (A. cry for " Mr. Bushell.") some other member to commence the adjourned debate, but as the council seemed to think he ought now to speak on the important question before them he willingly obeyed the call. The question at issue appeared to him to resolve itself under three distinct heads. The first was, whether the council was prepared to maintain, unimpaired, the present system of scriptural education as adopted in the corporation schools. This being, as doubtless it would be, answered in the affirma tive, then, in the second place, the inquiry would be, was it, or wastit not, their duty in the just control of the corpo rate funds, in the exercise of their legislative functions as affecting the religious, moral, and social condition of this • vast community, to attempt some minor good for those who could not, conscientiously, receive all the good which was placed before them. Then, in the third place, should the second proposition be deemed impracticable, the inquiry would be whether the corporation, seeing that its funds could only be appropriated to one, always admitted to be a large, portion of the community, ought not, according to the mu nicipal act, to cease altogether from being an educational body. Under these three heads he now desired, as clearly and as calmly as he could, to state his views on the question. He would now take the first of these propositions : was the present system to be maintained ? He thought if the con servative party acted with the consistency that they ought, and with which he was sure they would act—if they desired to maintain their principles—the present system established . . in the corporation schools must be maintained in all the pu rity in which they had already established it. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) What had been the great municipal struggle which had been going on in this town for the last six years? (Hear.) Had it been simply a struggle between two parties —whether one set of men should occupy the seats in that pouncil, or another set of men should occupy them—whether one should walk in and the other walk out? Had it been simply a question whether liberalism should reign or whether toryism should reign? He thought not. (Hear, hear.) They (the majority) had been contending for much higher princi ples than these, and having gained the victory it became their duty, as far as possible, to reap the fruits of it. (Hear, hear.) And, what had they done? When the conservatives came into power they found in existence in the corporation schools a system which was not in accordance with their views of a Christian education ; they pdopted, therefore, the only course left open to them ; they made those schools that which they distinctly and properly ought to have been made, schools in which sound scriptural instruetion was given to all who were willing to receive it ; they conferred all the bene fits which such a system could not fail ultimately to confer. (Hear, hear.) The Education Committee, in the document they had issued, which had been called a manifesto, had used the word "diluted." That was a word which, in his opinion, might very properly be applied to the proposi tion of Mr. George Hall Lawrence; for, to adopt his plan, would most certainly be to "dilute" the system already established ; it would be to impair, to injure, and to lessen, the usefulness of the Scriptural teachings which were now given in the schools ; and he thought he might venture to say that he should be able to show this very clearly. It was proposed to compel, as now, the reading of the Scripturt. all the Protestant children • it was also proposed, that thos, children whose parents could not conscientiously consent that they should receive that instruction, should be permitted not to receive it—in short, that they should go without it, the result, and, indeed, the natural consequence of such system would be this—if you carried it out under the sam, roof, and upon adjoining forms—a Protestant child would say, " I am compelled to take these Scriptures, and to read them ; I am told I must not only understand the truths which are there written, but I must practice them if I desire to be saved; whilst upon the neighbouring form there sits a child whb is not permitted to receive these very Scriptures which I am told arc essential, to my salvation," (Hear, hear.) This, to his tilled, presOnted an inconsistency which would lead, as he had said before, to the utter rootilig out of that vital principle which they wished to maintain: It was on this ground, therefore, that be objected to the proposition of Mr. George Hall Lawrence, and on this ground that he should vote against the amendment. (Hear, hear.) He now came to the second proposition, namely, whether, having now established a system of sound instruction; having pre pared sound education for all willing to receive it, without limit, with the daily and unrestricted use of the unmutilated word of God ; having fully established those principles for which they had contended, and to which, as Conservatives, they were pledged ; having gained the victory, and given all an opportunity of reaping the fruits of it, the question was-- and it appeared to him a new question which had not been touched upon before—whether they could not, legally and conscientiously, without the sacrifice of any principle, give to those children who either could not or would not, for it amounted to the same thing, accept all the benefits offered to them, at least a portion of those benefits. (Hear, hear.) He had given to this subject much consideration ; he had devoted to it much time, much thought, and and if he were wrong in making the about to make, he would not come ..,, council and beg, as some had done, the council to JardOn . ldrii : he Would tell them that he had been sent into • - •;'red` b9th in thought and action, and Anld tcslc no pardon for dqins , (Che, nxiet Dns he wa unfett been so He asked for monrable man was not fairly entitled. Were he to suppress the convictions of his ...._...1d bp equally dishonourable as though he as _rted that which he knew to be grossly and wilfully false. He came, therefore, coolly tend deliberately to the inquiry in the second proposition, which was this,--whether, having accomplished all this good, (which he truated they would continue to maintain so long as the corporation continued nothing to whi ! (Hear, hear.) mind, he shoo! o •• be ••••& an/educational body, •••••• ••••••••••• they could not conscientiously, t ) without any sacrifice of principle, do something for those who were, unfortunately, shut out ? His belief was they could do something, and he believed, further, that they ought to do it : he was prepared to maintain that they ought, and ey ough Roman Catholics were n schools. (Cries of" No, no," e fought side by sidi, which he saw near him—when, perhaps, he might say he Vas . in the front of the battle—contending for those great principles ihicki :s , erp happily now triumph ant, he expressed a doubt, which was in print for anybody who chose to it, refer to, whether the Roman Catholics could receive these benefits ; he hoped they would, but be doubted it ; and he then reserved to himself the right of considering, when the time should come, and it had now come, whether they could or could not do anything for those who were ex cluded. (Hear.) Well, then, were Roman Catholics ex cluded ? They were self-excluded, he admitted, but they Rowed .cause, i hich could not be taken by the Who would say that virtually, an exult Catholics V the Test Lind Cor advocate of any party ;p not there to fight the battle of conservative against liberal, but to deal with these facts as faithfully as it was in his power to deal with them. (Hear, hear, hear.) Then it had been argued that they would be justified in pursuing the rule of the lex talionis ; that, be cause their opponents'adopted a system of exclusion, there fore they should do the same. Now the present Council of fered to all that instruction which their late opponents refused to give to any. There was, therefore, a difference between them. But why should they do that which their opponents had done, unless they wished to meet the same result as had visited their opponents? (Hear.) Let them look to their present position, and compare it with what it had been. What had placed them in their present position of a woful minority ? Their unbridled exercise of the power which they possessed had placed them where they now were. (Hear.) Should the Conservatives then follow in their steps? No, he replied, let them not; he trusted they would never legislate upon such a ground , as that, but upon higher grounds if they were to legislate at all. It might be said that he was exer cising fals' - -- , nathy with regard to those shut out —.O who were no' He was willing to submit to the charge. Mile rather would he bear the charge of false sympathy than 1 would bear with that of want of charity and injustice. (Elea,• • hear.) Having then, done all they could for religious i struction ; having, as it were, fed the hungry and clothed t naked, should they not do something for those whose nece sities were yet unappeased? What was their position? Tht were there, in that Council, as corporators,—public prosec tors. What would be said to a criminal, a youth, broug before a jury, if he pleaded ignorance of the law in ex tenuatil of his crime? Would that be a ground for mitigation of p nishment ? He was sure not ; the criminal would be told must know the law and respect it. But suppose lie, should rejoin " I have been born in Liverpool and bred there, but there was no attempt made to give me educa-' tion, so that I should know the law." He (114r.,,BuShell) should, as 'a prosecutor, if this statement were made, feel himself in a dilemma that would be anything but satis factory to his mind. They might, be told by an excellent friend of his, WhoSe head was full of statistics, that where there was a limited instruction given there was more crime existing than there was in a state of utter ignorance. But what did that argument amount to? Why, to nothing unless to this—unlss you can give to the lower classes such an amount of instruction as Would unfit them for the station in which it has pleased God to place them, it would be better to give them none at all. Further, they had no religious test in their Infirmary, nor in their Dispensaries ; they had no test in their other various charities. People were admitted there by reason of their poverty or their misery ; no religious test was exacted from them before they were received ; on the contrary, the part of the good Samaritan was acted, the doors were thrown open, and no questions asked. The poor went there when they required such aid, and the same atten tion was paid to all. They scarcely required a test in the Workhouse, which was an extraordinary fact ; or if they did, it was of so questionable a nature, that it scarcely amounted to a test at all. True, the Bible and the Testament were read by all in the Workhouse school ; but be had that very morning been informed by the master, that he never; under any circumstances, ventured to enter into discussion with regard to the truths of the Bible. But they went further there, for they acknowledged Roman Catholic teaching to be religious teaching by admitting Roman Catholic priests into the Workhouse ; the children were then separated into arother room, and the Roman Catholic priest gave instruc tion after his own manner, to the children of his own per suasion, regularly two days in the week. This was an ad mission, at all events, that they did not deny that Roman Catholic teaching was Scriptural teaching. This was a very important fact. The council could not say there was no analogy, because they were not legislating for the Work house ; the fact was, they were legislating for the same community, and therefore there should be no preference in their systeni. (Hear, hear.) Now, he had a plan to pro pose, or rather, not a plan to propose, but a sugges tion to throw out. lie had considered this suggestion in all its bearings, with a desire, if possible, to meet the ob jections under which the present system laboured ; with a desire to maintain the present system in the schools, to make it efficient by getting 'rid of the opposition with which they were daily and weekly beset : By getting rid of those diffi- culties he hoped to cause the withdrawal of all opposition ; and he had no hesitation in saying that this might be done without any sacrifice of principle. He might be told that he was temporizing, and that we must not do evil in order that good might come; but he denied that he was doing evil, for if by some it was considered an evil, he considered it to be a good; if it was considered irreligious, he considered it to be religious ; and that which they considered to be unjust, he considered to be just. Was it not, then, possible to form separate schools for the instruction of those who could not conscientiously receive the religious instruction offered to them in the Corporation Schools? He might be told that the law would not permit this, but he would answer for that ; he had taken some advice on that part of the question. If this plan for which he contended, could be carried out—it they could do that which their opponents desired, without a sacrifice of principle, without encouraging popery,—he for one was not there to quarrel about the details. Let Mr. Blackburn, or anybody else, he cared not who they were, of what party—religious or political—shew him a plan that would not deviate from those principles which he had laid down for himself, and he would throw party to the winds ; he would co-operate with them heart and hand. He would then form a separate school, and make the terms of admission the possession of a certificate from a minister of religion, that the child received religious instruction at his hands. Would any man tell him, after what had been said as to the workhouse, that Roman Catholic teaching was not religious teaching? Would any man in that Council get up and say he conscientiously believed no Roman Ca tholic could be 'saved ? Let him (Mr. Bushell) hear that man Where was he.? They might commence the duties of the school with singing and prayer. They might confine their ducation to elementary instruction, in which there was no dan ger; do not teach philosophy, do not carry away the minds of children who were to earn their daily bread by the sweat of their brow, but give He believed that a child who could read his Bible was much more likely to come to the principles he advo cated than a child who could neither read nor write. Such spelling rstanding about his views r on this question, he begged that questior be asked of him th a at he might beset right. He wished to be perfectly understood that he advocated the system now _ . established' in the Corporation Schools, and he would not consent to its being impaired ; but at the same time he would advocate the justice and the necessity, the social necessity, the moral necessity, and the religious necessity of doing for those who were shut out that which we had an opportunity of doing—to bring them, if possible, to the exercise of those practises which religion taught, anu to the Knowlenge or tnose truths which we were bound to teach. Would he let the priest attend ? No ; he would not recognise so far the prin- ciples of the Popish religion as to let nun attenu— Mr, G. H. LAWRENCE.—DO I understand you to advo cate secular instruction in a separate school ? Mr. BUSHELL.—Yes. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE. — That is my amendment. Mr. BUSHELL.—Did you understand my first propo sition ? Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—Yes. Mr. BUSHELL said if Mr. G. H. Lawrence properly un derstood the first proposition which he had laid down, he would see that there was an essential difference between them, which he (Mr. Bushell) could not yield. (Hear, hear.) Now suppose his second proposition could not be conceded ' • he came in the next place to his third proposition, which was this : whether seeing that the corporation funds could only be appropriated to one portion of the community, they ought not to cease from being an educational body at all. To this he most distinctly and emphatically said yes ; he was an advocate for this third proposition, and why ? Why, simply because he believed that a greater benefit, a greater religious benefit would result to the community, and a greater social benefit too, if the corporation of Liverpool ceased to he an educating body. First and foremost it might not be known that the present cost of education in the corpo ration schools, to say nothing of the interest upon the first outlay, was £2 per head per annum. Now he would ask any member of that council, whether they ought not for £2 to educate four children per annum instead of one ? This was the first objection he had to the corporation being an educating body. Secondly, he was persuaded that the vital interests of the town had sustained injury from the long con tinued agitation of this question ; he was persuaded that some of the leading men in the town had been shut out from the council by the fear of this very question—men honour able in commercial life, and respected in private life, but who could not bear with this continual strife ; were not the clergy of the town the proper parties to be entrusted with the edu cation of the people? (Hear.) And if this were admitted, where were the funds to come from ? Ile had not the slightest fear that the funds would come, What man who had listened to the debates in that room, or who had read all that had itten upon the subject, and who knew anything of been v tho who had so spoken and written, could for a moment doubt that funds would be forthcoming ? If the desire of some of those gentlemen—he might say all—were equal to the professions they had made, they would, if necessary, contribute the last mite they possessed, in order that the children of this town should he educated in the religion of our church. He was not himself a man of much means, but to show how far he would go in this matter, he begged to say he would put clOwn his name for £lOO whenever the schools should be sold, to retain them to the church. Let others do likewise according to their means, and there would be no difficulty in educating the poor. (Hear, hear.) He bad another word to say before sitting down. lie had been told, that if he, or any one, dared to lift his voice against the fiat which had gone forth, he must look to his seat in that council. Now, he (Mr. Bushell) respected his constituents most highly ; no man re spected them more than he did ; and, moreover, he thought it was the duty of any constituency, if their representative made a pledge and broke it, to kick him out. There could be no doubt about that—(hear, hear) ; but could it be con ceived for a moment that any intelligent constituency in Liverpool, would desire to lend their representative to'that council not for the purpose of deliberation, but bound both in thought and action ? He would not think so degradingly of his constituents. His seat was at their disposal any day. for he occupied it not for his own benefit, but, as far as his ability went, for their's ; and, therefore, if they desired to get rid of his services all he could say was, that be was ready at any moment. But while he sat there, he would not con sent to be a mere puppet; nodding and bowing as the strings were pulled by some dictator from without.—(Hear, hear.) He was there free and unshackled, and with a desire whilst he would not sacrifice principle to serve any party, to do ample justice to all.—(Cheers.) Mr. NORTH then rose. He said that as a new and reasonably modest member of the council, he had patiently listened for many hours to this debate, without any de sire to take part in it—not because he was unwilling, upon occasion, to;combat according to his ability for the faith which was in him, but because he thought there were there many abler, as well as older, men, in whose presence their inexperienced juniors were properly ordered to keep silence and lay their handsupon their mouths. Itwas true that, as the proposer in the Education Committee of the report now under discussion, as " the pious druggist " that was of Mr. Earle's fancy (hear) lie had been always ready at any time, and under anit circumstances, to take his full share of the responsibility of supporting it ; but as the debate proceeded, he confessed he found his own natnralineliriation to be silent gradually in creased, because he found, as they went on, that " with the aged there was not always wisdom," nor "in length of days understanding ;" that was, that town councillors, how ever experienced, and zealous, and active, were liable to the failings of thinirr mortals—(hear, and laughter,)—that they could betray a cause by their own indiscretion much more effectually than it could be assailed by any -power he could hope to bring to bear against it. In:short, became to the con clusion to use another expressive phrase of the gentleman whom he had already named, that if he did but give rope enough to the supporters of the amendment, it might probably happen that there would be no occasion for him to obtrude himself at all.' For this debate upon the p'art of the assailants iways wide of th real question at issue (hear, hear,) of morbid sympathy con jured out of circumstances having no existence except in the imagination of the speakers, and of the perversion, as it ap peared to him, too plain for answer, of a religious principle to mere party purposes. (Hear.) He did not know whe ther, after all, he should not have finally determined to re- Lent, but that the thought occurred to him that be ight at least do some good by attempting a brief comment of the speeches they had heard, assured thereby, at -r this result of his labours, that if he faded rn -v interest to the debate, he might at ~ poration of much of what they_ ....Lensing it, that it might be im p ressed wins for ever. (Hear, hear, hear.) Musing _.,g upon what had been said—and alone, he had almost said, for a friend of his near him had fallen asleep, over whelmed by all he had heard—(laughter,)—an epigram occur red to him, as old as,the days of his apprenticeship, uttered impromptu in the Court of Chancery, with regard to some noted speakers of that day, but who were all long since gone down into silence : east pre t the loss by eva Mr. Leach made a speech, angry and wrong, Mr. Hart played his part prozily and long, - Mr. Parker, (of Lincoln's Inn, Sir, said Mr. North, not of St. Anne's Ward,) Mr. Parker made that darker, which was dark enough without, And then the Lord High Chancellor said, I doubt." —(Great laughter.) Not that there was such affinity be tween the eloquence so happily hit off in these lines, and that which the council had been rejoicing in, still less did he mean to impute that there was any analogy between the doubt upon Lord Eldon's mind, and the clear and lu cid con viction which must. of course irradiate the Mayor's when he (Mr. North) had done, but there was something in the V' neral character of the debate which had made the ouotation irresistible. And now for their individual sketches. They had begun with a lugubrious settlement of account between Mr. G. H. Lawrence and his own conscience; he would rather saY , an attempted settlement, for when he had ended his speech the account was quite as open, the figures all as ravelled, and the balance just as wavering as when he began. (Cheers.) ' Gentlemen► "Oh, what a taugled web we_ weave, When first we practice to deceive" ourselves ! Flow devious, dangerous, and full of warning must that course always be which was trimmed daily to some eve varying, ever vain notion of liberality or expediency, instead of being steered right on by the fixed star of principle ! H e wondered what Mr. Lawrence had been fighting for for the last seven years, for assuredly all he had won he had now flung to the winds ! (Hear.) " The duty of giving religions education to the poor" was the watch-word and gatheriq cry of the tory party in their upward struggle—(hear, bear) —it was now their " tower of strength," and it would be, please God, the Shibboleth of all their policy to the end of time, (Cheers.) After having" fought this good fight igr,; Lawrence deserted them, not in their hour of need, an therefore well, but in the time of their utmost triureP'!' Did he not say well, then, that this weakness was for their warning? Why it was intelligible upon no other groun d ' Loathing, as lie did, the substance of Mr. Lawrence'6 amendment, he would not stop to criticise its form ; yet the l' might perhaps mark both the wisdom and the complime ° of proposing to refer back this nostrum of secular education, to the very committee who, by a majority of ten to one,licu t already declared such education to be a curse. It was 11( . ) for him to presume to lecture Mr. Lawrence as to his Fiesl" tion in the council with regard to his conduct on this Me' tion ; but, in justice to himself and others, he thought 11e might take the liberty of suggesting to him the propriety 0f retiring from the Education Committee, with whom it ` vas impossible he could again act (hear and cheers) of which opi nion he (Mr. North) thought the council would be, when be stated that to no member of that body was it at all known, until after the last meeting of the council, that they were to be exposed to this attack from their colleague. (Hear, be°r: hear.) The next speaker was Mr. Turner, but he was 1 1 °' distinctly heard at his (Mr. North's) end of the room• conclusion, however, that gentleman told the council in rid original language that truth was very great and won prevail. No doubt she would prevail, but she would Or' tainly owe no thanks to Mr. Turner for his speech -oe' he had made a statement which, though not literall y a viola: tion of truth, was certainly the most unfair and uncandal distortion of it he had ever heard. Mr. TURNER begged to move that the Deputy Town read the numbers. The MAYOR called Mr. Turner to order; and requested him to wait till Mr. North had concluded. Mr. NORTH said, in continuation, that he was going to d° justice to Mr. Turner if he would let him. That Mr. Turner had said, that since the change of system, the numbers in the schools had fallen off by about 280. Now, to enable him t° make this assertion for a purpose, Mr. Turner had begun hi s computation, not as he ought to have done, if the ass ertion were to prove any thing, from the period when the new sYL tern began, but from a date before tl , at change, when all t° ' Roman Catholics left the schools in a body. Mr. TURNER said he had only referred to the actu al figures. (Call of "order" from the MA I OIL) Mr. NORTH.—Such misrepresentation as this could oob`a damage in the recoil, and Mr. Turner had been well answer e by Mr. Harbord, who told him that so far from the school s having diminished from the change of system, they had stew dill and invariably progressed, and that they were rapidly creasing now; to which he (Mr. North) might add also, the encouraging fact. that since this time last year the num; hers had more than drubled. (Great applause.) The nel i, champion was Mr. Hornby, of whose speech lie admitte.a, with the greatest pleasure, that if it had been as substantia_i , in its premises and as sound in argument as it was elegan t i t expression and gentlemanlike in tone. it would have been l a`. above his (Mr. North's) praise. But it was little more dee a romance from beginning to end, a pathetic, and, he was VI., sure, honest picture of abused power and undeserved au' fering, but, fortunately for humanity, drawn only from nal; and coloured by sickly sentimentality. (Hear, hear.) 't• (Mr. North) passed by Mr. Hornby's denial of the right o, the Education Committee to originate this discussion, thong°, it should not be quite unmarked as a genuine specimen 0' that liberal notion of liberty which claimed for yourself the_ utmost license, but denied to your opponent even the righ t of free agency. (Hear.) Neither should it be forgot ten the" this denial came from a member, or at all events from a 5,11; porter, of the former Education Committee, who , in toe' abus4 of power, in their " little , brief authority, Played such fantastic tricks before high heaven, As made the angels weep." (Cheers.) But let that error pass, for it was at once set tie!s by the Town-clerk ; and he proceeded now to Mr. Hornig speech proper, which was principally .directed to two p olo ? ' first, the propriety of conceding something, even of prin ciP.F' to the desire of rescuing these multitudes of Roman Catholic children from running about the streets — a fallacy which he, ' should deal with by and bye • and, secondly, of an atteiall to enforce the same argument by endeavouring to prove the Roman Catholics could not have the benefit of the education of these schools without a wicked violation of conscience, which it would be tyrannous to enforce. An honest Catholic, Mr. Hornby said, could not attend these schools, meaning, of course, 41 Roman Catholic. Why not, Mr. HornbYe; Because the Education Committee insisted that the 13,,ih1 should be read there ? But, could he be an honest Roman tholic without the Bible ? (Hear, hear.) Who, then, w ere th,,; tyrants—the Education Committee, who refused to:cleseer a ' r their schools at the bidding of a ioman Catholic priest; ° that priest himself, who would see the lambs of his flock Pe risb, both here and hereafter, for lack of knowledgr th e, aer than allow them to read the Bible ? (Loud cheers.) r. Hornby drew an afflicting picture of a father's grief, balac,e; ing in his own mind the tremendous question, whether " should bring up his child in ignorance, or make him an cl 3° ) ,. tate from God by sending him to these schools—such ap ostee d, consisting only of the daily reading of God's own ty° be (Hear, hear.) Was not this a perfect demonstration of 'd e hollowness of that argument ? (Hear,.) Why, to have the argument good for anything Mr. H. should have pr ov . e o that the Education Committee taught the oath of abjurat l° , s and not the Bible. (Hear, hear.) For one partof Mr. Hornby speech he (Mr. North) thanked :he admitted that ser: lar education was, in the abstract, an evil, therefore he ( 1 ', 1 „, North) only differed with him in this, that he would n ot with him the evil which he knew of. (Hear , be lt , hear.) It was difficult to collect the disjecta mernbra of to Earle's observations—(laughter)—so as to make any replYii, them, for the style of that gentleman was peculiar to hirn s t r , and, he confessed, he hoped it might remain so. ( I ., e ir. hear.) One ejaculation, however, he did remember of v to Earle's, and it was this, " They have put forth this manifes,f,, only to frighten us !" Now to that he (Mr. North) dire Ord assented ; he had hit off, as it happened, the very w ° ,be of the committee, and in part their intention too ; but at same time they had a higher object in view than that tle frightening Mr. Earle—(hear, hear ;)—they wished to s e t ts, a question of which the town was weary, finally and i ns ;to and that, with Mr. Earle's permission, they yet intended do. Mr. EARLE.—Oh dear ! The MAYOR.—Order ! order ! jet Mr. NORTH.—So much then for his adversary's gam e 'bad him now endeavour to make good his own as well as A o r player might. I - 1 e would not say anything of those whom be bo t following upon the same side, except this, that the veil , r rl bit of kernel which he had extracted from all he ha d be :„a was contained in the short speech which the council "id, heard from Mr. Birkett. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Birkett Our it was a sin and a shame even to discuss, in a christiao Cep, try, any proposal to have schools, or fragments of seb%); without religion. (Hear, hear.) So said he (Mr. No r t he and that was the question, and the only question, council had to decide to-day. He would say more, us el h that a school without religion was no school at all, thoug io might be, for anything he knew, what is called a inecbe P i s y institution ; and that he for one would never consent to P .ltir Hamlet with the part of Hamlet omitted " by the partie u desire" of Mr. George Hall Lawrence. Mr. EARLE.—Oh, dear me, Mr. Mayor ! The MAvoa.—Order, order ! Mayo Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—AIIow me to say, Mr. 'Vie', vet The MAYoa.—Order, order ! Mr. North has p 0" which elry, concluded. Mr. NORTH.---T am sorry to raise so much commotion! Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.--I thought you had done, si r ' t he Mr. NORTH.—Not yet, sir. (Hear, hear.) Tha t , 0 0 Education Committee should have come forward w)o -avowal of their opinion and determination upon this e co , mentous question, would, he thought, be a matter of con bed tulation to all who concurred in that opinion ; and h 8 hoped—though, after the experience he had had, it „o ra ther againsthope—even that to those who opposed it it l'iv,o-0.1 not have been altogether unacceptable in its straight -0 , 1 1 1 0 and pacific form. (Hear, hear.) The committee ha r ter appealed to the council ; they came therewith their e""r," 11 1i.7 and their labours in their hands, asking either for an et t , i - i a t, ted renewal of confidence, or a revocation of their 8 ,n 1 ; . ;.' 0 1” ment, for no less decision than that 'Would satisfy tit t era ' peal. (Cheers.) He rejoiced exceedingly that it ha d to this; they (th&Education Committee) had now done °",; c lo thing, and that something they would not willingly ° ltch they had now upon record a confession of faith, of a pe ; there was no evasion—a test from which there was no es`„^ e en there could be now no middle course—no " halting b et "neil two opinions." (Cheers.) They came before the ec' e- t tis with a determination, resting, as it ought to :rest, uPet a eil immutable basis of truth and principle ; and th e e°"-liir must either affirm that determination, or they ." rnad,e h e was wreck " not of the committee and themselves , w hie r c iple comparatively unimportant, but, as far as moral Po te n d to was concerned, of the great trust which was com mit m ake them all. (Loud cheers.) He felt deeply, and would re; $ no apology for speaking solemnly ; they were now up se lf great religious question, and therefore the Almighty l ii aide said to them, " Who is on my side—who?" Might He' old them to a right conclusion! (Hear, hear, hear.) Ile w a t he not go through the report ; it would be enough to reinin..sioa council of what was now the single qualification for adealacer into the schools. It was no forced assent to doctrines hewe_cel pure, no compulsory attendance upon services however the lent, that was now required in those who sought to I 'T leo r, objects of education in the corporation sch ools. tho se hear.) The door was now thrown open to a ll except .04, who refused to read the Bible in common with their f:e ll, ,io Christians. (Hear.) When he said that none were exl e d i but those who by this refusal excluded theniselVet, say more to shew the' truly tolei , ant svltenn adopted:, ) hear, hear.) Could the door he'open . w Could more be done for tile sake of peace and nha r oa ti ider ?: (Hea`r, he i e ty '? (Hear, hear.) " Yes," said Mr. Blackburn, e e c e, and, as he seemed to think , jock e y ed b y Mr. LawrFfldio, " you may admit the children of Roman Catholics and v3 O senters to secular instruction." He (Mr, North) Pre° the that, in fact, though not in form, they were discussin . g._, o e two propositions. To his view both were equally pernicto_l (hear); but if he were asked to which he was least W he should unhesitatingly say, " to that of Mr. Blackbuyo_A At all events, his had this - merit—it was straiglitforw aid natural ; whereas lie hardly dared trust himself to charactr:l°,o the other. (Hear, hear.) whatntot io i n t s ; ointuvinit,htlresnp,eteotiMuirly. Baslakcirgubio oabnj,eUtvawsrld begin He could not— are The MA.YOlt.—lt is my duty to remind you that You a t now t re spassing a little : Mr. Blackburn's motio n is it net present before the council. Mr. NORTH.—As he had said before, in point of fort? probably was not before the council ; he admitted the Ale' me. He to the of re 4 jut pr, au