The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-12-03 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS The usual monthly meeting of the Town-council was held au Wednesday last, et eleven o'clock, in the Council Chub ber, within the Town-hall. THE LATE MR. . Mr. I SAAC HOLMES pronounced ßUNNELL a warm eulogium on the character and talents of the late Mr. Bunnell, one of the auditors of the corporation, and proposed that the following resolution be entered on the books :—" That this council, sensibl'3 of the great loss which it has experienced by the de cease of James Bunnell, Esq., one of the auditors of the business of this borough, take this opportunity of testifying their opinion of the great services which have been rendered to the corporation by that gentleman." Mr. ASPINALL seconded the motion, which was carried unanimously. PROCEEDINGS OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE. A letter was read from the Secretary to the Treasury, stating that the Lords Commissioners had sanctioned the Sale by the Corporation to the Trustees of the Docks, of the Strand, Graving Docks, and other property, set forth in the tueumrial of the council, and alluded to in the act Ith c. 30, at the price and on the terms therein specified. Mr. EVANS found fault with the high price to be paid'for the warehouse property purchased on George's Dock (quay, Arr. Mr. BOLTON observed that though the price was high, the Purchase was exceedingly desirable, inasmuch as it was de sirable to make piazzas at the spot in question, in order to promote the safety of the public. The committee recommended to the council to allow the Recorder, in consideration of his holding two extra courts in each year, £5O for 6cli court. Mr. LLOYD objected to this, and expressed an opinion that the Recorder was amply paid, particularly when it was con sidered that the stipendiary magistrate relieved the sessions court of summary convictions, and that the Assessor took certain civil business formerly tried before the Recorder. Mr. G. H. LAwitENcE justified the committee. and said the business had so far increased, in consequence of th e ad- vanee of population and the vigilance of an excellent police, that the Recorder had more business to despatch than ever. Ile hoped the council would not refuse to sanction the re_. commendation of the committee. The TOWN-CLERK i;;;;"; out the assertions of Mr. Law rence as to the increased business of the Recorder. The proceedings of the Finance Commitiee were confirmed. MARKET COMMITTEE. The proceedings of the Market Committee were read, in cluding the subject of increasing the salary of Mr. Luya, the superintendent of St. James's Market, the consideration of which was postponed at the council of the 26th ult., pursu ant to the standing orders. Mr. JAS. LAWRENCE moved that the proceedings be con firmed, with the exception of that part relating to the salary of Mr. Luya. Muclico j iiVersation ensued on this subject, and several of the conservative members expressed their agreement in the view s of Mr. Lawrence. Mr.jCZ;A;;;ll:had caused the salary of Mr. Luya to be cut dowh on hi s a p po i n t men t, i n or d er t h at i t m i g h t b e raised if he deserved it. He had performed his duty in a most excellent manner, and the revenues of the market h a d i ncreased under his charge. I n 1837 the salary of Mr. Lace ''as £lBO, and the rental of the market was £ll5l 2s. 4d.; I rl 1838 Mr. Lace's salary was £2OO, and the rental £llBB 4s. ' 3 ld. ; in 1839 Mr. Lace's salary was and the revenue •;.1.130 7s. Id. In 1840, in the moth of January, Mr. Lace tiled, and in February Mr. Luya was appointed at £l5O, and the revenues of the market rose to £1414 Os. 10d. In 1841 Mr. Luya had £l5O, and the revenue was £1734 12s. 9d. Mr. ISAAC HoLmEs denied that the duties of any of the Market superintendents were great. Their duties did not °ecupy them more than forty-eight hours per week ; and he t hought. Mr. Graham, superint en d en t o f St. J o h n ' s M ar k et, 'gilt attend to all the other markets. (Hear, from Mr. aar n nes Lawrence.) Mr. COOPER. ridiculed the idea that the revenues of the rnarket had been increased by the conduct of Mr. Luya. The c orporation had expended nearly 430,000 in providing extra ki ecomodation in the market, and the increase of revenue was the natural consequence. Mr. EVANS chewed that Mr. Luya was paid less salary than the others who had less responsibility and less work. MMr. MELLoR, seconded by Mr. John Smith, proposed that r. Luva's salary should be £l7O per annum. Mr. kusnAw spoke warmly in favour of Mr. Luya, as tae best and most industrious superintendent in the town, with more work to do and more revenue to collect than the s uperintendent of St.,Martin's Market. Ile was better de serving than any of the others, yet he received less remune ration. Mr. LLOYD and Mr. JAS. LAWRENCE theincrease. E strongly opposed The a men d men t was pu t an d l ost b y a ma j or i ty o f 28 to 24. lie original motion for referring the subject back to the co mmittee was carried. EDUCATION . The proceedings of the Education COMMITTEE Committee were read, co mprising a recommendation, that all resolutions of the , ouneil confirming the proceedin gs of th e Ed uca ti on Corn tittee, so far as such co n fi rma ti ons a ppl y t o procee di ngs o f hat committee, which in any wise purport to establish prin eiPies or regulations for the conduct or management of the schools be rescinded, with the object, that die proceedings 4 °f the present committee and the dire c tio ns an d a pp rova l o f t he Council may be uncontrolled thereby, in the future Management of the schools. The MAYOR said, before entering upon this question, it ir culld be better to read to the council the following letter, Which he had been requested to lay before them • "To the Worshipful the Mayor " and Town Council of Liverpool. , It being genera lly un d ers t oo d, t h at i t i s i n contemplat i on ' 4 ° discard th e D ouay vers i on o f the Bible entirely froth the ,- orporati on Schools, and to require that all the children 4151 1 use the authorised version of the Established Church, and shall, moreover, join in a common form of prayer, at the eginning and end of' school, the Catholic Clergy of Liver- Pool beg, most respectfully, to state to the Council, that they cannot conscientiously concur in such an arrangement, j e t e lehy the religious principles of the Catholic children at e-0-'11"g tile schools will be compromised, and pray that the Me al r, Plated changes may not be adopted." "e above document is dated Ist Dec., and is signed in Fisher," of th e Catholic Clergy, by " Thos. Youens," " Thos. 'lsher," " P eter Wilcock," and " William Dale." Mr. MOLYNEUX, chairman of the Education Committee, moved that the report and proceedings of the committee be confirmed. Mr. HARBORD seconded the motion. 4 , Mr. BULLET explained that h e h a d, as one o f th e Educa "°u Committee, voted against the resolution brought for- Ward. It was too much to expect that the Council should r escind all the rules and resolutions which had formerly been Passed by th e comm itt ee , w ith out b r i ng i ng f orwar d any other rules as substitutes for them. With respect to the Bible, he 14ould not yield to any man in that Council, not even to Mr. t i3 O clgson in his respect for the Bible, but he never would leld to such an act of injustice, as the expulsion of a num uer of poor children from those sch o ol s , an d f rom th e on l y c hance which they had of acquiring knowledge. to Mr. JOHN SMITH spoke at much length, and with great rvour again st the proposed resolution, and the illiberality °f desi r i ng to turn so many poor Catholic children out o f the schools. He proposed, as a means of setting the question at rest, that two new schools should be erected for the express U se of the Catholic children. He moved that it be an in struction to the Education Committee, to examine into, and consider the propriety, of providing separate schools for the U se of the children of the Roman Catholic poor. 14 Mr. EARLE asked if the committee had read all those n inf's whico they asked the council so suddenly to rescind. f XL.. PRIESTLEY said, the motion was suddenly brought ,I ) . r ward in the committee, and as suddenly passed, with three 44 ..' is sentients, of whom lie had the honour to be one. The 1 4 ,°tion went to destroy all that had been done by six years 0 40 our, and there appeared in it a haste to cast dishonour 4 , 4 4 the labours of some of the most able and conscientious en who had been in the council. Mr. Priestley praised the :Nem, and hoped gentlemen would not vote till they had Z l arained it, for the effect . of such a sweeping resolution as that % , 1 • I they had heard read wonld be to turn all the poor b a ley s'othan Catholic children into the street. Mr. BOLTON was about to address the council, when Mr. EARLE rose and said that this question had been as Yet unanswered. He had asked whether, before they had resolved upon rescinding the labours of six years, the corn raittee had had the rules they wished to rescind r e ad over to tll,ll. Po ir. The rules PRIESTLY saids tion he h had not been ad answered read that question be e E in que. ; Mr. EARLE wished the public to know that the proceed -48 of s ix years w e re go i ng t o b e resc i n d e d b e f ore t h ey h a d ev er been read to the committee. Mr. HARBORD said he had seconded the original motion, Alt that, not having an opportunity at the time of stating his e4 sou for so doing, he wished now to be permitted to pro 4ed. 1 , Mr. H ARBORD said he would g i ve it never th e l ess. Hi s 9e?ison was his :—Whene had one to the school he cer- 111 1 y found t its management an d ge g neral conduct in discord ee with the orders arid regulations on the b oo k s o f th e ee ancil. This was his simple reason for supporting the I t. r esent resolution, - that the whole of the orders and regala °llB on the books should be rescinded, and that the , the should begin de novo. In future, he trusted, ` management of the schools would be in strict accord tace with the orders a nd re gu l a ti ons on th e book s . H e ad, heretofore, supposed that su c h was the cas e, but fou n d, ° n Visiting the school, that the management had been relaxed With t o meet th e v i ews o f certa i n part i es. (H ear , h ear. ) With regard to what had been said a b o ut th e d es i ra bl eness , having peace and harmony restored, he was as anxious as 2 1 3' man to establish real peace and real harmony ; but he vlshed n o t t o h ear p eop l e cry i ng '`peace peace, where there w ' aa no peace ;" and he also wished to observe, that the pro testant part of the community could never rest upon an arm of flesh instead of the arm of God. The authorised version ! I f th e Bible was the only spiritual truth which they could laculeate among the children. (Hear, hear, bear.) If they here instrumental in inculcating that which they believed to e erro r , they would not only be offending a certain portion their fellow-men but offending the Almighty also. He had no faith in t h at false peace to which allusion had been because it could never last any length of time. (Hear.) with respect to the division of the schools he objected to , tt leh a plan, because be believed that if he conscientiously mformed his duty towards God and man lie would be just ta t lyullty in teaching error in a separate school as he would in teaching truth and error under the same roof. With t r h e gard to Mr. Smith's proposition he had no doubt but th a t at gentleman had honest intentions in view ; but he would Sk Y that he (Mr S.) must be ignorant of the vital part of t h t duty which . he owed to the Supreme Being, when he Z a ted that he was a warm churchman and a true protestant, ki l d yet countenanced the inculcation of error in any shape. e called upon Mr. Smith to act as a true protestant. (Hear, b ear,) Mr. SmiTH.—And with feelings of Christian charity. ~-beers from the radicals.) t kr. 11 ARBOR)) thought it would be well to know what the 4,2leman meant by Christian charity. He believed it did t ;,' Mean that Protestants should be instrumental in teaching ,ers error. With regard to conservative principles, he was toes4lo2B to know how they could be severed from the princi of protestantism. Both should be as one. He, as a .i,aervative, professed to act as far as he could as a causer trive and a protestant. All his actions were based on reli pr7aaprinciples, and whenever a man acted contrary to those 4 ciples, be was deceiving himself and others also. (Cheers) te e repeated that he was far from being satisfied with the totteral management of the schools. He had put a question s e ,thne of the old members of the council, and was told in e Li! , Y that the visiting ladies never interfered with the female o4altiren in religious matters, but that they merely did so in cular things. On going through the schools however, he r,,ht for further information, thereathere learned from one e 4 4l e ladies' committee, that lHous part of the edu ;°,a was the principal part of what they attended to. matters were not overlooked by them, but the re ,tie9tis education of the children was a principal portion of p,.. 1 t duty. (Hear.) He had seen the books which were at h e it e at used in the schools. The Douay version, which he 1 34t eved contained some truth, but a great deal of error, was eo te ' r . There- were also the Irish extracts to which many . l i re _ tamed strong objections. There were protestant chil- N er ". taught by Roman catholic masters, and the authorised fh is ei °4 of the Bible was occasionally . introduced. But there th, such a heterogeneous mixture, that the management of at a f, e .ccols seemed to him not to be in accordance with the to re " 1 9g orders on the books. It was high time, therefore. trod_seind the said orders—to begin de novo, and not to in listieurce any system into the schools but such as should be ~.rioned by the council. Arrsork.hoped that if the committee were willing to cotage_e soithout kntwledge on the subject, the council would too. 4 11% SANDS said he rose for the purpose of stating that though the resolutions had sot alt been read la committee, and that the meloritv were perfectly well acquainted with their contents. His reasons for supporting the resolution of : the, committee were grounded upon his knowledge of the working of the schools during the last twelve months, which working had not been in accordance with the orders and regulations of the council; therefore it was he had moved I that they be rescinded. Many of them were in themselves good, but others were objectionable ; and it was in order to make the working of the schools to be in accordance with any future resolution that he was desirous of voting for the repeal of the present resolutions. If the council were to judge of the working of the schools, as indicated by those resolutions, they would immediately see that some consider able alterations ought to take place. But, judging of the system as it stood by the working of it, perhaps the alter ations that would take place might not be so great as many out of doors imagined. Mr. Bouroet said this was the greatest piece of discourtesy he had ever heard of. They talked of destroying what others had done before they were even prepared to substitute ally thing in lieu thereof. The proposition was the most insulting that could have been thought of. They had not even read the rules. He would put it to the chairman of the com mittee if he knew the rules. The Chairman said he was in Yorkshire when the rules were passed. Mr. BOLTON moved as another amendment, " That the recommendation of the committee to rescind all resolutions of the council, confirminr , the proceedings of the Education Committee, so far as sucl7confirmations apply to proceedings of the committee which in anywise purport to establish princi ples or regulations for the conduct or management of the schools, be not confirmed, but that the subject be referred back to the committee for their further consideration and support." Mr. BRIGHT seconded the amendment. Mr. GEORGE HALL LAWRENCE said he wished them to see whether they could not remodel the schools and put them on a footing which might be acceptable to the sound-thinking public at large. He had not been an inattentive member of the Education Committee, and he had endeavoured to recon cile himself to the system that prevailed. lie was sorry to say that he was not able so to do—that the system neither aided nor abetted religious principle—that it left the inculca tiou of religious principles either to the children themselves or to their masters, who, perhaps, did not know or did not like the creeds they taught, or to people who left their creeds at the door, and who were ready to teach Roman Catholic doctrines, or Church of England doctrines, or any other doctrines, or to the more uncertain attendance of the minis ters of religion. lie spoke of the system in one of the schools, which appeared to have no sanction from the Roman catholic clergy, for, at the periods set apart for religious instruction, they had never, or seldom, attended. He thought that if the Roman catholic children were no better instructed than they had been at the school in question, their parents could have no more reason to he satisfied with the nature of that in struction than the parents of the Protestant children, who, he must say, had not been neglected. Objecting, as he did, to the system, it was his duty to state what alterations could be proposed which would be agreeable to the clergy of the church, without actually violating or forcing the con sciences of those who differed from that clergy. He alluded particularly to the Roman catholics. This was a problem and a difficulty se great that if he did not feel that he stood in that council to fulfil a trust which he was bound to discharge, he should shriek from any proposition on the subject. But he begged to propose this on his own account, and not as a member of the Education Committee, for he had had no concurrence from them ; he would teach nothing but sound Scriptural education, no other book or guide as regarded religious instruction but the Bible; he would no longer allow the Douay version, or the Irish extracts to be there, nor would he allow the Roman Catholic religion to be taught efflur directly or indirectly. (Cheers.) He would have the service of the school commenced and closed with prayer, and he would give to the pupils all that he considered sound, Scr ptural, and true. He would offer all this ; but at the saint: time he drew a distinction between offering and forcing it on them ; and if it should unhappily prove, as would be the case in the onset, that there were those among them who might ( bje tt to receive such religious instruction, he hoped some discr ,tioit would be given to the committee—some power in pr ictice to make such arrangements as would, with out inter-I.lln with the discipline or fettering the utility of the school, enable the children of those parents who really and truly objected on conscientious principles to receive such an instruction of a secular and moral character as they were willing to seek for. He knew the difficulty of the question. He knew he should be told that he ought to give secular, in preference to religious, instruction—that the latter was fraught with danger, and that they were imparting a know ledge not over good ; but lie was willing to throw the respon sibility of what might ensue from the carrying out of his scheme upon the priests, who would not give their people the benefits of a sound religious instruction. And lie did throw it upon them. It was for them to regret the step which they were going to take. He believed, however, that they would yet come round when they would see the advantages which would result from the sound religious instruction that would be offered, and that in a short time they would agree to re ceive the whole of that instruction, which, until then he was not prepared actually to force upon them. With these feel. ings he would support the resolution which had been read. Mr. BIRKETT said the resolutions ought to be rescinded, but the object was only to rescind them so far as the princi ples which shut out the rectors and the clergy were concerned. He would have no compromise: if the Romish clergy with drew their children, on their heads be the sin and the shame. Mr. CROOK said, whatever were the fate of this motion, he should give notice of a motion, that the schools open and close with prayer and singing morning and evening, and that the authorised version of the Bible be read therein, to the exclusion of all other versions and of the Irish extracts. Mr. PROCTOR gave notice to move, that the two rectors be called in by the committee, to assist at their conferences. A very long debate ensued, and several members expressed their opinions on the subject, while many, presuming that the subject must be again brought before the council, expressed their opinion, that the discussion of the subject now was a waste of time, and that an adjournment should take place. Mr. TURNER said, lie for one could not conscientiously vote till he had read over those obnoxious resolutions. He lied called for the express purpose of reading them on the preceding day, but he was told it would take a day to peruse them. He was a firm supporter of the Established Church, but not of intolerance of any kind. He thought it would be but fair to read those rules before they passed, and not to destroy them ; and he thought, that to deprive the Catholic children of the means of education would be an act of injus tice. He knew of no sect in this town that was exempt from town dues, or from any tax or toll, and he thought an attempt to deprive them of any benefit that was provided would be an act of injustice. He would support the motion to adjourn. Mr. HCDGSON supported the original resolution in a long and able speech, which our limits reluctantly prevent us from reporting. He said the object of the committee was to re move the obnoxious system which had prevailed in the schools, and which was manifest to the whole town. He had been honoured by being appealed to by name as the prin cipal in the case. He should be sorry, in support of the truth, if he stood alone on such an occasion, but he believed that he had the great majority of the town with him on the subject, and therefore he received the appeal as an honour. (Cheers.) When the quackery of the late corporation began to work, there were 1000 children in the North School, and it was not known whether there were ten Roman Catholics among the number ; but when the liberal plans were put in practice—" liberal" according to their views—a new state of things had arisen, and the present population in the schools was about three Roman Catholics to one Protestant, or about two and a half when compared with Protestants and Dissenters together. The Roman Ca tholics formed somewhere about a fourth part of the popula tion of the town, and, probably, from their poverty, they Paid a twentieth part of the sum at the disposal of the cor poration. The liberality or justice of the late corporation had introduced into the schools what they said ought to pre vail, but which had immediately driven the Church of Eng land children away. It appeared, then, that for a population of one-fourth, and a contribution of one-twentieth, they thought it but just and liberal to distribute the public funds at the rate of three to one in favour of the Roman Catho lics. (Hear, hear.) If this was justice, he had lost his notions of what justice and liberality really were. (Cheers.) He could not consent on any terms to become the patron and inculcator of what he believed to be a lie. The building of separate schools was only another attempt to shuffle off an iniquity. if it were not an iniquity, why not teach them all under the same roof ? If the council believed that unitarian ism and popery were true, why not teach them where they might? Mr. Lawrence had stated that they might hit on some plan as an expedient, forgetting that there was no ex pedient where principle was concerned. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. Hodgson having read the solemn de claration which had been made by every member on entering the council not to injure the Protestant church, concluded by stating that he would support the original motion. Ultimately, after several propositions bad been made and rejected, the meeting having been addressed by Mr. Alder man Earle, Mr.Aikin, Mr. Parker, Mr. Mellor, Mr. Alder man Evans, and Mr. Bushell, the amendments of Mr. John Smith and Mr. Bolton were withdrawn in favour of the fol lowing amendment framed by the Town-clerk, proposed by Mr. Turner, and seconded by Mr. G. H. Lawrence: " That the proceedings of the Education Committee be approved with this qualification, that the consideration of the first of their recommendations do stand over until they have, in pur suance of the second of their recommendations, made their general report as to the future conduct and management of the schools " we repe Mr. HODGSON pressed for a division, when the above amendment was carried by a majority of 30 to 22. For the amendment—Messrs. Thornhill, Preston, H. Holmes, J. Holmes, Mellor, Bolton, Aikin, •Bright, Priestley, Aspinall, Yates, Robinson, Wood, Bushell, J. Smith, G. H. Law rence, Jordan, Platt, A. Smith, Mather, Holt, Bulley, Freme, Evans, Barclay, Earle, Moon, Nicol, Griffith, and Turner. Against the amendment—Messrs. Shaw, Hodg son, Copeland, Edwards, Barton, Sands, Rae, Toulmin, Lawrence, Cooper, Birkett, Procter, Lloyd, Rigby, Kilshaw, Parker, Harbord, Houghton (Alderman), Chilton, Bram ley-rnoore, Molyneux, Crook, and the Mayor•. The Council adjourned at four o'clock, to eleven o'clock on Wednesday next. TAM 0' SUANTER—ANDERSON'S STATUARY ROOMS.— Mr. Anderson, now that he has removed to Ranelagh-street, is having crowds of visitors pouring in upon him to inspect his handy work. The Blue-coat boys have been kindly per mitted to see the figures—a party each day going to the rooms, accompanied by Mr. Foster. The corporation scholars have also been invited to inspect them. Mr. Anderson is very liberal to his visitors, as, on paying once, they are not charged a second time for admission. We regard these sculp tuers as astonishing examyles of perseverence, industry, and skill, and we trust thousands will avail themselves of a plea sure they will not have cause to regret. HALIFAX, Nov. 18.—The Herald, Dickson, from Liver pool to Miramichi, was driven on shore, on the sth of ult., inside Point Escuminac, and it is feared will be a wreck ; crew saved. The Elizabeth, Brabble, from Liverpool to Dalhousie, was driven on shore at Meccon Island in October, and is a total wreck ; crew saved. A bark, from Liverpool, was on shore near Sydney, Cape Breton. The Portland, Robinson, which returned to Quebec on the 3d ult., was dis charging her cargo, and was repairing in the floating dock. Report now has it that the Romish party in Dublin have resolved to constitute Mr. O'Connell permanent lord mayor, there being, it is alleged, no provision in the Municipal Re form Bill against the re-election of the same party to that office, year after year. FATAL FALL.—On Wednesday, the 17th ult., a young man named Thomas Morgan, living at Clarach, near Aber yestwith, met an untimely death, by falling over a rock be tween Clarach and Borth, The deceased, with a companion, started in the snow from home that morning, with the in tention, as it is supposed, of catching rabbits. A rabbit, it. s said. was started, and the unfortunate young man, pursuing it with too much eagerness near a precipice, fell in. The de clivity was not so great but that he might have recovered himself, had it not been for the slipperiness occasioned by the snow. As it was, lie came down upon the sea shore with his head foremost, and never spoke more. His companion, at great personal risk, followed through a more practicable winding of the rock, to render assistance •, but on finding him speechless, and the blood rushing from him in torrents, he was so overpowered that he fainted on the spot. The father of the deceased came immediately to the place; but on find ing that his son had lost all consciousness he fell on his knees and prayed. The poor sufferer, however, still breathed, and was taken to Wallog House, where every assistance in their power was rendered by Mr. and Mrs. Morris. By this time Mr. John Phillips, surgeon, of Aberystwith, was sent for, who came and rendered all the assistance which his surgical skill could suggest, but to no purpose ; for the poor young man breathed his last in the course of the day, about three hours after the accident.--Welshman. THE WEST INDIA. MAIL STATION We have recently called the attention of our fellow-towns men to the superior claims of our port, as the British station of the West India mail shies. (14 in number,) over those of Southampton. We expressed our surprise and reprehension that those claims, so far from having been urged upon go vernment by our late Council (and, we may add, by our mer cantile community generally) in a manner commensurate with the importance of the object to be attained, had been coldly and imperfectly advanced, if not altogether overlooked ;—we furnished data derived from the report of the proceedings of the parliamentary committee in proof of the fact that, from its central position as regards the home mails of England, Scotland, and Ireland, and the manufacturing districts in each, it was decidedly the most eligible point of departure and arrival of any that had been suggested ;—and we ex pressed a hope that the present corporate body would exert themselves to redeem the past by an energetic represent to the proper quarter—leaving the nautical point of the que tion for future consideration and remark. To that point a shall now more particularly address ourselves. And we me), premise that, though the inertness and apparent apathy of Liverpool on the one hand, and the activity, generalship, and undue influence (of which more anon) of Southampton oa the other, has induced the government to fix, temporarily, trust, upon that port as the exclusive station,—and thougle from obvious causes, months, or it may be years, may dap,: before we can so far justify our position as to effect a chang in the determination of government in our behalf, we by no means despair of a favourable result, if energetic measures be adopted by our local authorities, and others immediately interested to lay the subject fully and fairly before parliament . All we can hope to do is to hasten that desirable change ; for we feel assured that experience will effect it, even should our townsmen remain passive spectators of the working of the mails from the station at present assigned to them. We may add Ott resuming the subject) that it is our highest ambition especially to promote the interests of our own port, and we willingly allow a like privilege, in the exercise of an honourable com petition to our fellow-subjects of Southampton or elsewhere ; but we urge no undue preference—no exclusive boon apal t from the general interests of the kingdom ; and if we fail, ere we take leave of the subject, to prove on the broad prin ciples of general good, that this is the more eligible port, we shall be contented to relinquish all the local advantages that may accrue from its ultimate selection. It may, perhaps, be said that we are premature in at present' agitating the ques tion, inasmuch as it cannot be immediately entertained in the quarter from which the final decision must emanate. Our reply is that it is never too soon to rectify an error that mili tates against general interests ; and that it were well, by . ample and dispassionate discussion, during the calm of the recess, to ripen the public mind on the subject, so that on the opening of our national councils, under new arid, we trust, happier auspices than have influenced their delibera tions for many years past, they way be prepared to strengthen the hands of our representaaives, and enable them to urge with better effect the propriety of a speedy revision and amendment of the decision at which, in our thinking, they have unhappily too hastily arrived. A brief reference to the proceedings of the government on the question under review may serve to elucidate its bearings, and justify the views we have adopted. In the first instance, a committee—Rear-Admiral Sir J. A. Gordon, chairman— was appointed by the Lords of the Admiralty to inquire into the comparative advantages afforded by different ports "in the Channel" for the West India mail service. It appears that from tire first it was contemplated that " the port" (cer tainly without due consideration) should be in the British Channel, and as the committee was entirely composed of officers of the navy, most of whom had long been stationed in that quarter, and consequently known in and attached to that locality, and who knew little of Liverpool, which is rarely visited by men of war, it is not to be wondered at that they ;;rould entertain a preference to a port in that quarter. It appears, however, that while the enquiry was pending, the Admiralty, in consequence of memorials received front the respective ports of Bristol, Penzance, and other ports, not including Liverpool, (which remained inert on the subject,) directed evidence to be taken of their respective eligibility, though they were not on the south but the western coast of the island. Bristol, in particular, presented a very strong memorial, but the mass of the evidence respecting it as a mail packet station, is, we consider, with all due deference, much less favourable than that (brief as it was) afterwards adduced in behalf of Liverpool,—while, at the same time, much of the general testimony is clearly in favour of a " western" port as best suited to despatch. The Admi ralty committee, however, which acted from the 3d of June, 1810, to the lfith of July in the same year, after visiting most of' the competing ports in the south, and re ceiving deputations and evidence from numerous parties interested, did not, it appears, recommend any particular harbour, but handed in several reports embodying that evi dence, the final decision being left to Parliament itself. The government commissioners had previously, on the part of the public, entered into a contract with the West India Royal Mail Company—that is, on the 20th of March of that year— for the providing of at least 14 good and substantial steam vessels for the service, also four sailing vessels, of 100 tons hurdler' each. The contract specifies, that one of such steam-vessels, after inspection and approval, shall twice a month, " from such port in the British Channel as the said Commissioners shall at any time or times, or from time to time, signify, in writing, to the contractors," put to sea with the mails, and proceed to the island of Barbadoes, thence to Grenada, and thence successively to Santa Cruz, St. Thomas, Nicola Mole (in St. Domingo,) Santiago (iii Cuba,) Port Royal, (Jamaica), Savannah-la-Mer (same Island,) deliver ing the mails and receiving others at each, and thence to Havannah (Cuba,)Savannah-la-Mer ' Port Royal (Jamaica), Santiago de Cuba, Nicol a M o l e , an d Samana (St. Domingo,) and thence make her way home to such port in the British Channel as the commissioners - may direct. The company are also required to alter and vary this route from time to time. And for the due performance of such service a sum is to be paid by the government of £240,000 per annum, in auarterly payments; the contract to commence on the 31st 3f December, 1841, arid to continue in force for ten years, ind to continue thereafter unless twelve months' notice be iven by either party to the other. Such is the substance of the contract !entered into (need -at, precipitately !), between the government and the company—the home port being distinctly specified to be, " in the British Channel ", to the absolute exclusion of Li verpool, or any other port on the eastern coast of this coon try,—unless, indeed—of which, we do not despair—a new ar rangement can be made under the sanction of parliament, and satisfactory to the contractors. Here was the grand error on the part of the commissioners, and they appear to have been aware that they had acted with indiscretion, and injustice, in having thus, perhaps unwittingly, narrowed tee field of com petition ;—for on the 27th April, of the present year, the House of Commons appointed a select committee on the selection of a port of arrival and departure, to whom the re ports of the previous committee were referred—as also the contract ; who immediately found that no selection of a par ticular port in the British Channel had been made by the commissioners of the Admiralty, or notified to the steam company, and were, moreover, empowered to receive evi dence both from Bristol, Liverpool, and several ports in Ire land,—a circumstance clearly admitting the possibility, at least, of their having formed a too hasty contract, and the probability, if they found a change desirable, of having it an nulled in favour of a new arrangement. The parliamentary committee consisted of Mr. Freshfield, Lord Dalmeny, Lord Viscount Ingestrie, Captain Peelle', Captain Duncornbe, Mr. Charles Wood, the Honourable Sir Thomas Cochrane, Mr. Redington, Mr. Cresswell. Lord Worsley, Mr. Philip Miles, Mr. Gibson Craig, Mr. De Horsey, Mr. Oswald, and Mr. Richard Hodgson, to none of whom inatnediately have we an objection to offer, though we cannot but consider it extraordinary that neither of the members for Glasgow are included in the list of members, who, it may be added, very inadequately represent the great interests in West India affairs of the great commercial and manufacturing interests of the North of England, of Scotland generally, or of Ireland. On looking cursorily through the evidence, we find, too, that nearly the whole of the witnesses—nautical men, engineers, and others—are connected with souse one or other of the ports in the British Channel, and solely interested in the preference of a port in that part of the coast, while their knowledge of this port, and its comparative advantages and capabilities, (if any they possess,) is either extremely limited, or, from the exclusive nature of the examinations, remains unelicited. Admitting, however, as we readily do, that the establishment of this mail communication will be of immense advantage to the country, if judiciously carried out—by ap proximating, as it were, Great Britain to her valuable de pendencies in the West, and consolidating their mutual interests—it becomes a matter of national importance (par ticularly when the large expenditure involved is taken into account) that that port should be selected which promises that the greatest convenience and advantage to the mass of the mercantile and general community mainly interested, as re gards the proprietary in those islands—and the comparative advantages it presents, in safe and easy ingress —and in adap tation for the speedy repair of machinery ; and, finally, in the cheap supply of fuel, the cost of which will, necessarily, form a prominent item in the working of the line. In all and every of these respects, we have yet to learn that the com paratively small town of Southampton, is at all equal to our own admirable port. In the first place (thought the subject seems to have been scarcely touched upon by the committee), there can be, we think, no doubt but that the mass of West India proprietors are parties resident in the north of England and in Scotland. Situated, too, in the immediate proximity of the great manu facturing districts with which, as well as with Scotland and Ireland, it has speedy and daily intercourse by railways, ca nals, and other means, and from which the supplies for the West India markets are mainly derived, it presents claims within a circuit round it—claims of connexion—of much greater magnitude than can be substantiated for a similar ex tent of country round Southampton, including even the me tropolis itself, whose mere convenience in the advantage of five or six hours only in the postage of letters has apparently held an undue preponderence in tire minds of the commit tee. If packages of fine manfactured goods are t o b e carr i e d by the West India steamers in addition to their coals in or der to meet a market (which, though not mentioned, is, we think, probable), these would be mainly supplied by the sur rounding districts, and from the sister western port of Glas gow, from Birmingham, from Yorkshire, or from Stafford shire. And as regards passengers (on whom the mail ships must greatly depend for their profitable working), we will venture to say that the aggregate number of individuals pro ceeding to the Antilles, and to the proximate shores of South America, exceeds by ten times those proceeding from the southern counties of England. If these, however, would take advantage of the mails, they must by the present ar rangement be subjected to the additional fatigue and heavy expense of travelling nearly to the land's end. Many of these will, therefore, as a matter of course, prefer a passage by the sailing ships of this port and Glasgow, to the infinite loss of the mail steam company, and the defeat, to a certain extent, !of the objects of government in forwarding speedy personal transit. We now proceed to contrast its adaptations with those of Liverpool in a nautical point of view. And first, as regards the shortest distances from each port respectively to Barbadoes, measured on a great circle, we have Southampton Liverpool Being an advantage (if it may be so called) in favour of Southampton of only 147 miles ; though the distance by mail is upwards of 200 miles between the two ports. The follow ing particulars from the Hydrographer to the Admiralty, laid before the committee, will show the respective distances to be run from each port, the point of departure on the voyage from Southampton being taken at the Lizard, and that from Liverpool at Cape Clear : SOUTHAMPTON to Calshot Castle Calshot to the Needles Needles to the Start Start to the - Lizard Lizard to Barbadoes LIVERPOOL to near the Skerries Skerries to Tuskar Tuskar to Cape Clear 145 Cape Clear to Barbadoes The report of the committee makes a difference of only 47 miles of distance, but this evidently arises from a mistake in the addition, and we are quite willing to allow the larger sum, inasmuch as it makes but a trifling per centage of difference on a voyage which —as not even a steamer can steer a direct course in all weathers—may be considered a voyage little short of 3,800 miles. The respective advantages of ingress and; egress which the two ports present are now to be con sidered ; and here, we think, our port merits the preference. It appears from the evidence of marry of the witnesses that Southampton is subject to thick fogs, which renders the pas sage of the Needles out or in extremely hazardous, and one of them (Mr. Walker) states that no Cowes pilot can find the Channel of Southampton Water in foggy weather, though if found, it contains sufficient deptlr for the steamers. The access to Liverpool on the other hand is unequivocally stated by all the witnesses in behalf of the port to be superior, and outward-bound vessels may be said to be clear of the land when they pass Holyhead. 7 14 81 63 3,425-3,590 caston PUBLIC MEETING ON THE BIRTH OF THE PRINCE OP WALES. Yesterday, at twelve o'clock, in pursuance of a requisition to the Mayor (to which he promptly ;,:ceeocd), a public meet ing of the inhabitants of this borough was held at the Ses sions-house, " for the purpose of affording the loyal subjects of her Majesty the Queen, in this town and neighbourhood, an opportunity sof expressin 4 by addresses to her Alajesty, his Royal Highness Prince Albert, and her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, their joy and congratulations on the auspicious event of the birth of au heir to the throne of these realms." The Court-room, immediately on the opening of the doors, was crowded in every part within the rails, by an assemblage of the most respectable and influential inhabitants of the town, without regard to politics, and the proceedings were marked throughout by a feeli ng Of loyalty and respect to the institutions of the country beating the occasion. Amongst those present we noticed Sir Thomas Brancker, J. T. Alston, Messrs. Alderman J. U. Turner, Thomas Bolton, Thomas Thornely, M.P., H. Hornby, R. Duncan, Ashley, J. Sheppard, William Potter. John Formby, Walinsley, Joseph II ornby, Robertson Gladstone, T. Booth, Sandbach, Alexander Smith, jun., J. V. Yates, Bushby, Dr. Ralph, George Grant, Lewin Mozley, and many others. The Mayor (J. S. Leigh, Esq)., in taking the chair, opened the proceedings in an appropriate address. It afforded him the highest gratification to see such an assemblage of his townsmen congregated on an occasion so auspicious. The meeting had originated in many of those whom he saw around him ; but had he not received the requisition, the event, on which they had assembled, afforded sufficient and ample grounds for him to call the meeting to afford an oppor tunity' to the people of this great town, which formed an im portant portion of the empire, to express their feelings of loyalty and attachment to the throne and the constitution, under which they had enjoyed so much national prosperity. They had to congratulate the town, and the people at large, on the birth of an infant prince, who would, in all probability, sway the destinies of this great country. They had to pro pose addresses to her Majesty and to Prince Albert on the happy event. They also had to address her Majesty the, Queen Dowager (we understood him to imply), who had shed pre-eminent lustre around the throne. He trusted that the proceedings would be marked by those feelings of enthusi asm and unanimity which the occasion was so eminently calculated to draw forth. As there were others present much more competent than himself to dilate upon the sub ject, he should not occupy their time with further remark, but request the town-clerk to read the requisition. The TOWN-CLERK complied by reading the requisition, and the numerous signatures thereto appended. The Rev. JONATHAN Brtooycn, who was received with strong demonstrations of respect,) said lie had great pleasure in performing the office, which he had been requested to un dertake, of moving the first resolution. Had it required the powers of oratory, or the gift of persuasion to do so, he should shrink from the task as incompetent to do it justice; but when they met :or a common purpose, on which, how ever much they differed on certain points, all parties unani monsly conjoined, he felt that all difficulty was removed. The resolution divided itself into two parts. First—they had to acknowledge the goodness of Almighty God, in bestowing upon her Majesty the blessing of a son, and thus fulfilling the hopes of the nation ; and secondly to express their happy congratulations to the mother on the event. He felt assured that every one present would concur in expressing their gra titude to that Almighty Being, from whom all such blessings were derived, and he was equally certain that they would offer their heartfelt congratulations to her Majesty, who for got all the sufferings of a mother, after they had passed, in her joy that a man was born into the world. For national blessings. national thankfulness was due ; and never had they occasion to be more thankful than now, when a sovereign born in the country left them to glory in the name of Britons. They had, in truth, the more to be thankful for, when they considered the great blessings of the constitution under which they lived. It had been well said by a RoMan historian that a succession of nobles alone would not benefit a state, and that (as we understood him) a form of govern ment constituted on the principle of republicanism, could not long endure. His prophecy had proved to be right; and while some empires so regulated had fallen into decay, we had here a government of king, lords, and commons, which had lasted for ages. We ought to be thankful for a con stitution to which, under God, they were indebted for all the advantages they enjoyed. And surely they would be doubly thankful for an event which would perpetuate its advantages. They were the more called upon to give expression to their gratitude and loyalty when they reflected that our present sovereign was a young, virtuous, and interesting female, who had already shown that she would act up to the principles and spirit of that constitution, and in whose health, as well as in the birth of a prince, they felt deeply interested. He looked around him in that assembly for an octogenarian, but believed none were there. He did so with a view to remind them that this was the eightieth year since so happy an event as that which had drawn them together had occurred. None of those prese n t ever before offered their congratulations on the birth of an heir-apparent, who was a Prince of Wales, and be sincerely hoped none of them would see a recurrence of such an occa sion. Half a century would roll over before their beloved monarch would attain three-score years and ten—the scrip tural age of man. If she lived to that age, none of those who heard him could witness such an event. The whole circumstances under which they had met were such as could not but lead them to unanimity. He felt assured that they would pass the resolution, with an earnest wish and prayer that her Majesty might long be spared to rule over them ; that the Prince might grow up in virtue and in wisdom, under her maternal guidance ; and that when the time came when she must pay that debt of nature, from which even monarchs were not exempt, she would hand down to him the sceptre of the realm, with its purity unsullied, its lustre un diminished, and its power uudecayed. He could not better conclude than in the words of the poet— " Blessing and ever blessed be her rule ' - And, when old Ti me s h a ll b r i ng h er to her end, Goodness and she fill up one monument !" (Much cheering.) Mr. T. ,BOLTON said he had been r e ques t e d t o secon d th e resolution, which he had much pleasure in doing. That re solution had been so ably supported by the Rev. gentleman who had preceded him, that he had but to express his cordial concurrence, to hope that every blessing might attend her Majesty and her infant son ; and that when SOU was taken from us we should continue to enjoy that civil and religious liberty with which we were more favoured by our govern ment than the people of any other country on the (ace of the earth. (Applause.) The MAYOrt again read the motion, (which, with the others, will be found in our advertising columns,) and being put it was unanimously carried. Sir T. BRA NCKER, who complained of a cold, moved the second resolution, that a dutiful address be presented to her Majesty, and that the following he adopted : " To THE QUEEN'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY, " 'We your Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, Magis trates, Clergy, Gentry, Bankers, Merchants, and other in habitants of Liverpool, in public meeting assembled, grate fully acknowledging the goodness of Almighty God in be stowing upon your Majesty and your Royal Consort the blessing of a Son, and upon your faithful people an heir to the throne of these realms, desire most respectfully to offer to your Majesty our heartfelt congratulations on this most auspicious event, and to express to your Majesty our joy and thankfulness upon your Majesty's restoration to health. " May every blessing attend the infant Prince ; may wis dom and virtue, health and strength, be largely bestowed upon him. Instructed by the watchful solicitude of his Iyal parents, in all that is good and praiseworthy, and be fitting his high station, may he be a comfort to your Majesty and your Royal Consort, and a bright example to this nation. And, if in the course of events it should please Divine Providence that the crown of these realms should devolve upon him, may those national advantages of free- don], peace, and prosperity which your Majesty's subjects enjoy under your mild and benignant sway be continued under his, and may he long reign beloved as is your Majesty, by the grateful millions of the British empire. " That this day may be far distant we fervently pray, and that your Majesty may long be spared to rule over a loyal, devoted, and affectionate people.' _ _ Mr. bIIARLES TAYLEURE briefly seconded the resolu tion, which was put, and unanimously carried. Mr. HUGH HORNBY, in a few words, moved the next re solution, that an address of congratulation as follows be pre sented to His Royal Highness Prince Albert : "To His ROYAL HIGHNESS PRINCE ALBERT. " We, the undersigned Magistrates, Clergy, Gentry, Bank ers, Merchants, and other Inhabitants of Liverpool, in pub lic meeting assembled, beg respectfully to approach your Royal Highness, and to offer to you our sincere congratula tions on the birth of a son, the heir to the throne of these realms. This auspicious event fulfilling as it does the hopes of her Majesty's subjects, must be to your Royal Highness a source of unmingled happiness; and the nation, fondly anticipating the future, recognises in your Royal Highness the illustrious progenitor of a race of Sovereigns who in after ages may sway the sceptre of this mighty empire. May the royal infant be blessed by every endowment of wisdom and v►rtue, be a comfort to her Majesty and your Royal Highness, and a bright example to the people of these realms. "We offer up our fervent prayers for the health and happiness of your Royal Highness, and that you may long live beloved and esteemed, as your Royal Highness de servedly is, by all classes of her Majesty's faithful and affectionate subjects." Mr. HORNBY congratulated those present on the unani mous character of the meeting. The event which had called them together was calculated not only to gratify the feelings of the Royal Parent of the infant Prince, but to confer a bless ing on the nation at large, inasmuch as it would strengthen and consolidate our institutions. It was peculiarly welcome at a time when clouds Were lowering upon the prosperity of the country. There were some parties in Europe who re garded the dissentions in politics that had recently been ex hibited in this country as a prelude to her downfall; but he thought they were well answered by such demonstrations as the present of attachment to our Sovereign, and devotion to the institutions of our common country. Mr. .1. T. ALSTON seconded the resolution, and it was carried unanimously. Mr. GYM. BILOW'N said it was highly gratifying to see a meeting divested of all party feeling, and assembled to con gratulate the Queen and other members of the Royal Family on the birth of a Prince of Wales, and begged to move that an address be presented to the Duchess of Kent, and that the following be adopted : " To IiIER ROYAL HIGHNESS THE DUCHESS OF KENT. _ _ . " We, the undersigned Magistrates, Clergy, Gentry, Bankers, Merchants, and other inhabitants, in public meet ing- assembled, beg to approach your Royal Highness, and offer to you our sincere congratulations on the birth of the Prince, the heir to the throne of these realms Gratifying as is this event to all classes of Her Majesty's subjects, it must be to your Royal Highness a source of the purest happiness. " The parental care bestowed by your Royal Highness upon our gracious Sovereign in the days of her infancy and youth, and the benefits thereby conferred upon this nation. will long be cherished by her grateful subjects ; and we fer vently pray that the infant Prince may possess in an equal measure all those virtuous dispositions so fondly nurtured, by your Royal Highness, in our gracious Sovereign, that he may be a comfort to his royal parents, a distinguished orna ment of the royal line, and a blessing to the people of these realms. _ _ " Aud we pray that your Royal Highness may long live beloved and esteemed by all classes of Her Majesty's subjects." Mr. ROBERTSON GLADSTONE begged leave most cordially to second the resolution, which on being put was also unani mously carried. Mr. W. POTTER said that the. several resolutions having been passed with the greatest unanimity, it only remained for them to fix upon an individual to present them ; and he trusted he should meet with the general concurr ence o f th a t assembly in proposing that they sould be entrusted -to their chief magistrate who presided that day. (Loud and pro longed applause.) r. LEWIN MOZLEY, in seconding the resolution said, that the addresses were such as would meet the fnll'approval of every one who possessed a British heart, and no one could be more fitly selected to present them than the worthy gen tleman who so ably filled the chair, and who was moreover a native of the town. He seconded the resolution with sin cere pleasure. _ , The MA.voa, after stating good humouredly that he felt himself placed in a very awkward predicament on the oc- The motion, which his modesty prevented him from point edly putting, was then carried by acclamation. The MAYOR said that it was impossible for him to express the gratitude he felt for the compliments paid and the honour done to him. He had as yet exercised the functions of his oflice too short a time to merit them ; but he might say, that whatever errors of judgment he might hereafter be amena ble for, he should ever discharge his duties with the strictest impartiality to all parties. (Applause.) A motion WdS then agreed to—moved by Mr. G. GRANT, smd seconded by ',Mr. J. H. Tutor Ea—that the addresses be signed by the mayor, in behalf of the meeting. The mayor then left the chair, when the thanks of the ►neeting.were voted to him. Repeated and enthusiastic cheers were then given in suc cession for the Queen, Prince Albert, and the Duchess of Kent. and the meeting dispersed. MEETING OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE The committee held their weekly meeting yesterday. Ther were present Messrs. Sands, (chairman,) liorsfall, Barclay Holt, Holmes, Smith, Mulyneux, Evans, Chapman, Buller Tobin, Aikirl, Middleton, Moon, Chilton, Ripley, and Nicol kLLEGED DELAY IN THE WORKS The proceedings of the last meeting having been read. Mr ►:VANS said he would ask Mr. Hartley one or two questions in consequence of remarks having been made by a nimbi of that committee, with regard to the di ; a, -tueen's Graving Dock ; and also wits regard to one or two lines of sheds at the north end. FL wished to know what was the cause of the alleged delay, o why the works had not been expedited as much as possible. The SußvErou. replied, that with regard to Brunswicl Dock there had been no delay whatever. So much dependec upon the state of the tides that the work could not go or quicker. ay in the stmt. o as to the ( Mr. CHAPMAN observed that the work had been going on for two or three years and was not completed yet. The SURVEYOR described the present state of the work, and showed that it was impossible to go on quicker ; but he spoke in so low a tone that we were unable to hear his words. Mr. EVANS asked whether since the beginning there had been any time lost? The . LTRITEYOR said that no time had been lost, seeing that a great variety of alterations had been made. Mr. CHAPMAN.—The original plan has not been ad. bared to? The SURVEYOII..—No. Mr. CHAPAIA.N.—How long has the work been in hand The SURVEYOR..—Abort two years. Mr. CHAPATAN. - ---Suppose the original design to have been kept to, and the work expedited for the purpose of opening, what time would it have taken ? The SURVEYOR.—Perhaps a few months less Mr. EVANS inquired whether the alteration had been made for the sake of amendment ? The SURVEYOR replied in the affirmative. It was at first intended to be a dry basin. As to the South Graving Dock the engines were all ready, and a boiler would be put down in about a fortnight. As to the sheds, there was nothing at all to be done. Any body going to the place would certainly suppoSe the work was standing, but that was not the case : all was ready to go on the moment a cargo of stone arrived, which he expected in about a fortnight. Some conversation followed with reference to a delay that had taken place in the works at the sheds, and which the Surveyor accounted for by saying he did not understand the order to have passed the general committee. The SECRE TARY at the request of Mr. Evans, r e a d th e or d er a ll u d e d to, which was dated the 13th May, and was to the effect that the sheds at the east and south ends of Waterloo Dock be proceeded with as early as might be convenient. Mr. EVANS contended that the words " as early as may be convenient " justified the surveyor. The committee seemed to be of the came opinion, and after the Surveyor had undertaken to make a report of tile number of yards of sheds he had erected since May last, and also within the last twelve months, the con versation dropped. GENERAL BUSINESS alluded to Messrs. Davenport and Grindrod's tender to erect two cranes on the north quay of George's Dock was accepted. The tender of Mr. Thomas Hague to erect the proposed transit sheds west of Prince's Dock, being the lowest of twelve sent in, was accepted. Tile Sub-Committee for the department of the Marine Surveyor reported that during the night of the 16th Novem ber, the Bell beacon had been run foul of by the ship Re porter (as we understood), and damaged. A letter was or dered to be written to the owners of th vessel, holding them responsible for the damage. The widow of a man belonging to the Point of Ayr life boat, who had been unfortunately drowned whilst going to a wreck, was presented with £lO. The duplicate light-ship Meteor was reported to be now moored in the - Sloyhe ready for active service. Applications from Messrs. Robert Clarke and Son, and Messrs. W. B. Jones and Co., shipbuilders, stating that their establishments must be abandoned in consequence of the intended dock improvements, and pointing out other plots suitable for their purpose which they requested to have, were referred to the Surveyor. The CHAIRMAN stated that a memorial from the Man chester potatoe merchants, forwarded through Mr. Locke, had been referred to Mr. Askew, who was making some ar rangement; for their accommodation. A letter was ordered to be written to the Liverpool and Manchester Railway Company, informing them that the rail way near Queen's Dock had not yet been removed, and call ing upon them to fulfil their engagement. On the application of the agent of the Dund a lk Steam packet Company, the end of ; shed at the north-east end of Clarence Basin was ordered to be boarded up. THE YEW DOCK PLANS. The CHAIRMAN said that the general business being con cluded, probably the committee would call i❑ the harbour masters and dock masters for examination upon the several dock plans. Mr. Cu APMAN enquired whether other nautical men would be allowed to give their opinion ? The CrIAIRMAN said certainly. and not only nautical men, but it was the pleasure of the committee that some civil en gineer should be examined. Mr. TOBIN thought that question had never come regu larly before the committee. He had heard it stated at the last meeting, that the committee had determined to take the opinion of an eminent engineer, but it was the very first time he had heard of any such determination. The CHAIRMAN said, that perhaps he might have gone a little too far in saying so ; but he took it for granted that the committee would not only examine their own servants, hut go to London for opinions. That he knew was the wish of several gentlemen upon the committee, Mr. Horsfall among the number, and therefore he took the liberty of say ing so. Whether he said the committee had so determined he did not remember. Mr. AIKEN was glad that Mr. Tobin had mentioned the subject, because he felt considerable hesitation in saying that there was a necessity of asking the opinions of engineers. No fault was found with Mr. Hartley's plans as regarded the engineering, or the effect to be produced, or with the strength and general security of the walls ; but it was urged that the space of water and quay would not be equal to that which was suggested out of doors. Upon that subject he held that the parties to be examined, and parties in terested in the town, were quite as able to judge as the best engineer in the country. In fact the question became solely one of the facility of working vessels. On this subject he could not imagine that an engineer unacquainted with the locality and with the systems of trade could give the committee any information. If, upon the other hand, they were likely, by getting the opinions of eminent surveyors to satisfy those out of doors, it would be well ; but be did not see why they should do so at all, because, after all, fault was not found with the engineering plan, or the arrangements for working ships. He did not see how the opinion of able en gineers would affect the question between the associated bodies and the committee. The Cu AIRMAN explained what he had said with reference to consulting engineers of eminence. Mr. Nica said he understood the chairman to have said there was a very great disposition in the committee to consult The CHAIRMAN ranted. —I did say so, and I think I was war- Mr. Nicol, did not take exactly the same views of this question as Mr. Aiken. When the discussion of this matter first commenced, he was aware that the engineering part of the work had been thoroughly examined before a committee of the Houie of Commons, but he did not find that the gene ral plan of the dock had been made a subject of enquiry in any other form. It did not appear that other engineers be sides Mr. Hartley had been consulted as to the general plan and usefulness of the dock itself. But Mr. Aiken said the committee were as good judges of the matter as any able engineer. He agreed very much with Mr. Aiken in that, but the committee themselves were much divided upon it, and sfrs many associations having come forward and found faul% with the plans framed by Mr. Hartley, it must be sa tisfactory to Mr. Hartley and to the committee to have other opinions. Mr. HORSFALL said his view was to obtain the very best advice that the country afforded. As Mr. Chapman had ob served, if there was any error at all, it was in design, and it was desirable, therefore, to have the best opinions upon the design itself. It would be quite wrong if they did not take the best advice they could obtain ; and he would suggest that at least two engineers of the highest eminence be invited. Mr. EvANs quite agreed with Mr. Aiken that the commit tee were better judges of the actual working of the several plans than any engineer. He had nothing to apprebend from the opinions of engineers except the well known feeling that when you called them in, they were always excessively origi nal and anxious to interpolate something of their own that might leave some mark of the necessity or utility of their being employed. He had no apprehension of any thing else than that; but in ail likelihood the committee would call in men who would not be actuated by that feeling. Mr. TOBIN said it came to this—that by Mr. Gage's plan they would be, fora long time, reducing their dock room, whilst by the present one, that of Mr. Hartley, they might have all the facilities they required in five or six months he under stood. Mr. CRAPMAN.—In five or six months—the new dock? Mr. IloasFALL.—No, the Canning Dock. Mr. CHAPMAN said it was closed. Mr. ToBIN begged pardon. As the docks were crowded, if the committee could get those which were now closed com pleted, a great deal of time would be saved ; but if they agreed to Mr. Gage's plans, they must submit to be without an ad ditional dock for at least five years. Mr. CHAPMAN said, the first question was whether they should confine themselves to the present site. It was quite impossible for the committee to entertain the extended plans of Mr. Gage ; and the fault of Mr. Hartley, if there was any, was one of design. If the work had been solely one of execution, he did not know any man in the country whom he would trust sooner than Mr. Hartley •, but the question was one of design, and in that he thought Mr. Hartley wrong. The very entrances showed that. Mr. Chapman ccincludeCl by urging upon the committee the necessity of calling in engineers and men of nautical experience. Mr. BULLEY apprehended from what had passed on Mon- day that the committee were pledged to call in assistance. Mr. AIKIN said that no engineer or engineers, however emi nent, could enter at once into the wants and wishes of the pub lic, or into those points which were of the greatest advantage to the trade of Liverpool. It was impossible for any engineer coining strange to know how the trade was working, the changes that hadtaken place, or those which might be expected. When he came down it would require a great deal of time, and it would be a work of considerable difficulty, to impress upon him the nature of the trade as it had been, and as it was likely to be. Unless he knew the absolute routine of trade he could not know the description of accommoda tion which was wanted. Mr. Aiken concluded some com- ments upon Mr. Gage's plans, by observing that in theory and on paper they did seem very pretty, yet when their practical working was really gone into, Mr. Hartley's plans proved to be decidedly the best. Mr. Nicol, said there was a good deal of force in what Mr. Aiken had said ; but he was of opinion that Mr. Walker, and other engineers, who had come down here upon public works, would not make up their minds to any alteration or change in Mr. Hartley's plans without obtaining all the evidence they could upon the working of the docks. Mr. HORSFALL remarked, that much of what Mr. Aiken had said must be laid before the engineers. They must be informed that warehouses were indispensable, and that they must not lay before the committee any plan that would injure The CiininyAN suggested that it would be better, in the ,- .._..... ___ examination of the witnesses, to have it clearly understood that the preservation of the warehouses was essential, and that they must give all their evidence with reference to that. This suggestion, after a few observations from several members, was adopted. The CHAIRMAN having read a list of the Harbour and Dock Masters in waiting to give their testimony, it was ar ranged that they should all be present at once. Mr. RIPLEY inquired whether the committee were going to confine themselves to the additional dock only, or the general plan of Mr. Gage ? The CHAIRMAN replied, the plan which comprised the space of the parliamentary site. Mr. TOBIZ4 supposed the horse shoe plan was intended for fishing boats, for long vessels could not go up to the wharf. Mr. EVANS.—And how can you work them at the ware houses ? The CLIAIRMAN said, the principle of the discussion was, that the warehouses must be preserved. Mr. AIKEN thought the officers should be examined with reference to Mr. Gage's large plan, as tint had been recom mended by a large portion of the associated bodies. Mr. CHAPMAN said, that was not the question. If the large plan was practicable, they must go to parliament for a fresh act and to obtain more money, therefore that was not the question. The question was, the site for one or the other of the plans for which they had an act. Mr. AIKEN said, that was the very strongest reason that could be adduced in his favour. The associated boidies had adopted Mr. Gage's large plan, therefore if they got rid of that they would be clearing so much of the way. Mr. HORSFALL asked the Surveyor how long it would take to execute Mr. Gage's large plan Mr. H ARTLPY replied that he I int seen it "Mr. EloasrALt s«•er the q id of course Mr. Hartley could not an tion if he had not seen the plan, but it was most :I,_" can yo . o deprive the or five - The Harbour and Dock Masters being introduced, The CHAILLMAN directed Mr. Hartley to look at Mr. Gage's plan, and give the committee some idea of the time it would take in its execution. Mr. RIPLEY added, after the act of parliament had been obtained, he understood that the Manchester Dock was under lease for about 20 years. Mr. AIKEN said the Ltrge plan went upon the principle of doing away with the King's Dock, Salthonse Dock, two Graving Docks, and the Manchester Dock. Would it not be sufficient for the committee to say at once that they never could contemplate a plan which involved the doing away with of two of the most useful ducks in the town? The CHAIRMAN said it would take 12 or 13 years to get • rid of the Manchester Dock. Mr. Hour said the unexpired lease was for 14 years. Mr. TOBIN said the gentlemen who recommended Mr. Gage's plans seemed to think nothing of expense or time. If the Manchester dock could be•bought only .for its weight in gold, they would not care about the expense. Mr. ItryLry remarked that the Manchester Dock be longed to the corporation. Mr. HARTLEY said he had examined the large plan, and it was impossible far him to say in what time it would be exe cuted. At the south end it might be completed at three or four different periods ; and, when one part was completed, another might be begun. It would, perhaps, take six or eight years in the whole. Mr. CHAPMAN repeated that they had no act of parliament for it. The only thing for discussion now should be the principle of the future dock. Mr. Hartley had admitted that the principle was right by the plan he had suggested some years ago, but the committee had nothing to do with anything but the parliamentary site. Mr. EVANS said the committee had also to consult the opinions of the mercantile associations. A majority of them were in favour of Mr. Gage's plan, therefore the committee were bound to give it some consideration and dispose of it formally. Mr. 'RIPLEY said Mr. Chapman had stated that Mr. Hartley had admitted the principle and acted upon it ; but in the new dock Mr. Hartley had entered upon another principle and the committee had admitted it. Mr. HARTLEY said he admitted the principle to be the best for east and west docks. Mr. RI LEY.—Precisely so. Mr. HARTLEY added that when he first came into office, two docks like the Prince's Dock were about to be con structed. He was ordered to report on the plans, which he did, and they were abandoned, and his own substituted. Mr. HORSFALL said that was precisely so. The commit tee had approved of the plan, and it had been carried out as far as practicable in the docks to the northward of the Prince's. Mr. HARTLEY.—Yes, certainly, The CHAIRMAN said sorneeiol i anations had been received from Mr. Gage, which ought, perhaps to be now read. The SECRETARY then read the following : " Liverpool, December 2d, 1841. "MR. CHAIRMAN AND GENTLEMEN, " Agreeably with your instructions of the 29th ultimo, I hearwith beg to hand the plans which I was then required to deliver this day; they are Marked and numbered as follows, that is to say—the plan marked A contains the design of Mr. Hartley -No. 1, in juxta position with that sub mitted by me No. 5. An explanation of the plan and table of contents will be found at the foot thereof. " The plan marked B exhibits a disposition of the whole space between the Duke's Dock and George's Basin, with an explanation and table of contents. " The plan marked C is an arrangement of the same space with two Graving Docks, at the south-east corner next the Duke's Dock. " The plan marked D, No. 4, is the design with the Horse Shoe Basin, containing an explanation and table of contents. "These are the identical plans which have been exhibited by me to the ditiarent mercantile associations, and which are referred to in my pamphlet lately published on the dock question. " It is with great reluctance that I feel myself called upon at the present juncture most respectfully to advert to the re port of Mr. Hartley which was read at the last meeting of the committee, inasmuch as the subject matter of that report necessarily carries with it great weight, from the circumstance of its being the production of the confidential adviser of the dock estate, and also from its being the document upon which the committee appear to have acted last year, in the settle ment of the very same question which is now about to receive their grave reconsideration. " The predominant feature of the report in question is an overweening desire, on the part of Mr. Hartley, to establish a prior claim to the original idea of the principle which I have publicly advocated, and upon which my plans are con structed. lie struggles to establish a kind of patent right to the principle, and then endeavours to cast ridicule upon its application. A dock capable of containing * four tiers of vessels of nine hundred tons burthen, with a c;ear gangway in the centre, he designates a ' canal'; the object of this singular misapplication of terms is manifest, and it is painful to observe the labyrinth in which this gentleman has en tangled both himself and his subject; he has treated it in such a manner as to require opposite conclusions to be drawn from the same premises. In that document he has cast a discreditable imputation upon the writer who has now the honour of addressing you, he has been expostulated with upon the subject in your presence, and, although he disclaimed the intention of any such imputation, he has suffered the errone ous paragraph to eo before the public. "I should not have complained in this communication of any personal misrepresentation from Mr. Hartley, however offensive or unjust, had it not been mixed up with an official report which has heretofore received the sanction of the Dock Committee. " From the magnitude and importance of the subject upon which the committee are about to deliberate, and the great responsibility attached to the office of a confidential adviser of the dock estate, it was only reasonable to expect a report founded upon something more than the crudities of a 'hasty consideration,' yet such is the character of the report given by Mr. Hartley himself. " Considering, therefore, that Mr. Hartley was called upon to sit in judgment on a case which concerned his own pro fessional reputation, it is hardly to be expected that he could pronounce an impartial verdict, if even he had given the question his mature deliberation ; but when we find a most momentous subject involving the interest of the whole mer cantile community treated in a slovenly manner, and with nothing but ` hasty considerations,' there is little reason to expect that such a production should contain those sound ar guments which are calculated to assist the superior authori ties in their legislative capacity. " Under such circumstances it would seem almost unneces sary to enter upon a confutation of the illogical conclusions which are drawn from the document in question ; it may, nevertheless, be proper to combat some of the fallacious statements therein set forth. Mr. Hartley admits the principle which I have laid down to be correct, and re fers to the similarity of his own plans submitted years ago— he states that the Victoria, Trafalgar, and Waterloo Docks are upon the principle of my plans, whereas the very reverse is the case. The docks in question are no more upon the principle which I have designed, than are any of the other existing ones. The mercantile associations and a numerous body of gentlemen who have inspected my drawing of Mr. Hartley's docks, with the vessels represented therein, can all bear testimony to the correctness of his asser tion ; if, however, Mr. Ha r tl e y con ti nues to approve of the principles, why has he designed the present dock upon one that is diametrically opposite? The cause of this extraordinary contradiction seems to baffle the boldest conjecture. Mr. Hartley does not appear to be aware that a vessel can be dropped into her discharging-berth and hauled out again in a narrow water-space ; yet this is an operation daily performed in our long graving -docks. If his intended square dock is filled with ships lying idle, the sup posed spare water-space becomes pre-occupied with a cum brous mass, presenting a floating barrier to the performance of Mr. Hartley's favourite •evolution of swinging a large ship in the middle of a dock. At the concluding part of his repOrt he contradicts his assertion in the former part, and thus proceeds :—"fo the general principle of these four plans, namely, that of crowding as much loading and dis charging room into as small a space as possible, without ' paying due attention to other considerations, I h a ve decided objections.' "To this I would reply, that nothing can be worse than crowding laden ships together in the middle of a dock, with out paying any attention to the great consideration of afford ing them quay accommodation whereon to land their corgoes. Mr. Hartley forgets that the old docks afford ample water space, and that the new act of parliament permits the dock authorities to remove ships from one dock to another when requisite. If the intention is, therefore, to make the new dock with its warehouses an important dock, of what use, then, will be the square area of water? If warehouses are to be the only consideration, more quay room and less water space should have been provided; hence the advautage of an extended line of warehouse frontage. " Mr. Hartley's idea that a vessels Side would only touch in the middle when moored alongside the Horse Shoe Basin wall, and would thereby subject the ship to injury from an unequal pressure is an absurd fallacy; this is an assertion capable of the clearest demonstration. I must not, however, trespass further upon your valuable time, and am, therefore, compelled to reserve my extended observations to a more suitable opportunity. " I have the honour to be, " Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen, "Your most obedient Servant, " MICHAEL ALEXANDER GAGE. " The Dock Committee." The CHAIRMAN said, that from this document it was evident that Mr. Gage contemplated covering the whole site. After some remarks from Mr. Tobin, Mr. Aiken, Mr. Chapman, Mr. Evans, and Mr. Ripley, in proof of Mr. Hartley's having propounded the principle now put forth by Mr. Gage, 17 years ago, Mr. Askew, the South Harbour Master, was examined on Mr. Gage's plan for covering the parliamentary site, it being understood that the extended plan was to be left out of consideration as impracticable. The CHAIRMAN.—Mr. Askew have you seen this plan of Mr. Gage's ? Mr. ASKEW.—I have, sir. The CHAIRMAN.—TeII us what you think of it. Mr. TOBIN, before the question was answered, would observe that Mr. Gage laid much stress upon the fact, that trade had so increased within the last fifteen years, as to re quire double the number of docks. From this he contended that double the number of docks would be required in the next fifteen years ; but at the same time did he give double the number of graving docks ? So far from that, what did he do? Upon his last amended plan he put two graving docks only ; but if he had maintained his own proportions, he should have put eight. Of the three graving docks that there were, one had been taken away, and two remained, whilst Mr. Gage had himself proved that our increased trade would require six more Graving docks were so essentially necessary that they ought to be in the centre of the docks themselves Mr. ASKEW then said, he was of opinion that the Horse Shoe plan would never do at all. A large ship could not lie upon the convex side of the circle. There would be no-safety for her : he was sure that the pressure against her bow and quarter would do her injury, but a very important question was, how were they to work her ? He thought the dock might be worked with warehouses ; but there must be an opening between the two. The quay woul d be only 9 0 feet wide; a cart turning would occupy a great part of it. Th the accommodation etwo plans w ou ld g i ve greatest to the shipping eCHAIRMAN.—Which I amount ßmAN.—W of hicil of in terest of the port ? Mr. ASKEW.—I am decidedly of opinion that Mr. Hart ley's would; but I would recommend you, if it can be done, to widen the basin a little. Mr: Nicor..--What width is it? Mr. ASKEW.—It is 245 feet. The CHAIRMAN.—What we want at present is your opinion of the plans as they now exist. Mr. 411,1iEW.-1 am decidedly of opinion that Mr. Hart ley's plan is superior to Mr. Gage's. Mr. Askew tilts as signed his reasons for several minor alterations in Mr. Hart ley's plans. Mr. HODGSON, the North Harbour Master, was next called. He said he had a decided objection to the horse shoe plan, for these reasons : The first was, that a vessel, 150 feet long, could not lie to the quay against the segment of a circle of ten feet; his next objection was the strong indraft, Which would almost be increased at certain times to a hurri cane, that would be created by the proposed warehouses upon the quays ; and, thirdly, that vessels could not be worked in the dock. He would not have any entrance to the river. On these accounts he tliouzlit Mr. Hartley's plans greatly supe perior to those of Mr. Gage. Two entrances, in his opinion, were sufficient to work three docks. Mr. JOHN EASTON, the master of Brunswick Dock, was next called. He said he had paid attention to the plan pro posed by Mr. Gage, and he was Quite opposed to it. A curved wall made it very difficult indeed to secure the ships, and they must be damaged by it. Mr. CHAPMAN.—Suppose it was a square basin, like Brunswick Dock ? Mr. EASTON said a square basin was much superior. He had seen the basin on Air. Hartley's plan, and he preferred it to Mr. Gage's, but he would prefer a inure southern en trance. Mr. TOBIN suggested that each person who gave his testi mony upon these plans should he asked what his nautical ex perience had been, in order that the public might be able to estimate the value of their opinion. Mr. EASTON. in reply,' said he had followed a seafaring life for upwards of thirty years, and that for ten years he had been dock master. Mr. AIKIN said, that there was not a single harbour or dock master who had not been brought up to the sea or to the master of a ship. The CHAIRNI.IN.—And most of them have been dock masters a very considerable time. The CHAIRMAN.—Under all the circumstances do you think the plan of Mr. Hartley is better than that of Mr. Gage ? Mr. EASTON.—Decidedly. Mr. HORSFALL here asked Mr. Askew how long he had been either dock or harbour master? Mr. ASKEW said in a very few months it would be 21 years ; and that he was the only man living in the service of the estate who commanded a ship in the year 1800. Mr. TODIN.—How long have you followed the sea? Mr. ASKEW.—I went to sea very soon after the action of the Ist of June, 1794. The CHAIRMAN asked Mr. Hodgson a similar question. Mr. HonGsoN said he had been twelve years at sea, nine years dock -master, and two years harbour-master. Mr. TOBlN.—and you were brought up among shipping before you went to sea? Mr. il ODGSON.-I have_ had to do with shipping for thirty one years. Afr. John Garniss, master of Queen's Dock, said he had been for twenty-nine years following the seafaring profession, and bad bee❑ dock master eleven years. He had examined the plan of Mr. Gage, anal was most decidedly opposed to it on the same grounds as the harbour-masters. Mr. Hugh *Bride, master of Clarence and Trafalgar Does, said he had been for thirty-one years at sea, and ele ven years dock master. Hit opinion of Mr. Gage's plan was, most decidedly, that it was inferior when compared with Mr. Hartley's, and that it would be impracticable. Mr. Henry Rea, master of Waterloo and Victoria docks, who had been 27 years at sea, and seven years dock-master, expressed-a very strong objection to the circular basin, and said that Mr. Hartley's plan was much better than Mr. Gage's. The warehouses on the quay would make a complete funnel. Mr. James Cosnahan, master of George's Dock, said he had been 2t years at sea, and dock-master six years. He had carefully examined Mr. Gage's plans, and was most decidedly of opinion that Mr. Hartley's were the best, for the reasons stated by the harbour and dock masters. The dock- toasters' testimony being,now gone through, the committee resumed the consideration of the question whe ther competent engineers should be appointed to examine the respective plans, and aid the committee with the advan tage of their opinion. After some discussion it was resolved, that the opinion of two such gentlemen should be obtained; and by a subsequent resolution, it was determined that Mr. Walker and Mr. Cubitt should be invited to Liverpool for that purpose. The committee then separaticl. STEAM-SHIP BRITANNIA ABSTRACT OF THE LOG OF THE STEAM-SHIP BRITANNIA, John Hewitt, commander, :rom Boston and Halifax to Liverpool, 16th Nevember, 1841_ Nov. 16—At 230 p.m., received the mails, and proceeded out of the harbour towards Halifax, having a strong north west gale, with a heavy sea. 17:-:-Course N. 76 t., distance 180 miles, wind N. by W. lat. 43 5 N., long. 66 30 W., strong gales throughout, with a heavy sea. • 18—At Bh. 15m. a.m., strived at Halifax ; 4h. 20m. p.m., left the harbour for Liverpool, weather more moderate. 19—Course N. 79 E., distance 157 miles, wind N.E. by N., lat. 41 58, long. 59 83, fresh breezes, with cloudy wea ther. 20—Course N. 81 E., distance 202 miles, wind N.N.E. and E. by N., lat. 45 29, long. 55 5, a. 111., fresh breezes, p.m. light winds. 21—Course N. 81 E., distance 193 miles, wind E. and S.E., lat. 4t 22, long. 51 43, a.m., light airs and calm ; p.m strong gales with a heavy .sea 99 .L—Course N. S 6 E., distance 196 miles, wind S.E., lat. 46, long. 46 34, strong winds with a heavy sea, p.m. strong stales. I —Course N. 68 E., distance 102 miles, wind E.N.E., 47 13, long. 44 14, strong gales, with cloudy weather, and a heavy sex 24—Course N; 79 E., distance 173 miles, wind N.E. by N., lat. 47 40, long. 39 33, strong winds with cloudy weather, a heavy sca running. 25—Course N. 73 E., distance 226 miles, wind N.W., lat. 48 44, long. 37 47, st r o ng br eezes w i t h a h eavy swell, rain and sleet. 26—Course N. 80 E., distance 239 miles, wind variable, lat 49 27, long. 28 50, a.m. light airs and fine ; p.m. moder ate and cloudy. 27—Course - N. 78 E., distance 242 miles, wind variable, lat. 50 17, long. 22 52. fresh breezes and squally. 28—Course N. 81 E., distance 232 miles, wind W. by S., lat. 50 51, long. 16 50, head gales with heavysqualls and rain, a very heavy sea running. 29:—At iih. 20m. p.m. Cape Clear bore N.E., distant 7 miles, strong gales, and squally. a heavy sea running. 30—At Ph. a.m. Tusker bore W. by S., distant 4 leagues ; at 9n. 15w. p.m. took on board a pilot. TO THE EDITOR OF THE STANDARD SIR,—I noticed with great satisfaction, in your paper of Friday, your allusio❑ to the lamented death of Mr. Clough, late organist of St. Nicholas' Church ; and which, I trust, you %yid further notice to-morrow, by stating the favourable mention that was recorded of him by the Rev. Mr. M'Gill, (I believe,) in his sermon yesterday morning. Also the further respect paid to his memory by having the organ hung with black, and the scarlet draperies of the choir removed and re placed with black ; the organ also closed for the day, and the musical portion of the services entirely vocal ; a part of the 90th psalm was also very appropriately sung in the morning. —I have taken the liberty to state the ab:;:e thinking it possible that it might not be wholly known to you ; and am, sir, one of your constant readers, &c., J. L. Monday Morning, Nov. 29, 1841. TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STAVDARD, SlR,—Can any of your readers inform ❑w whether Mr. John Finch, agent to the " Low Moor Iron Works," near Leeds, is the same Mr. John Pinch, the Socialist, of Liver pool?—l beg to remain, Sir, Your obedient servant, AN INQUIRER. Dec. 2, 1841 TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD, SIR,-1 trust you will allow me to address you, through the paper you have the honour to be editor of, on a subject which you will give me some credit for being sincere in—the corporation schools. Now, Sir, I must inform you that I am one of the old freemen, although a young man ; I was born free, and, as such, I was brought up to expect that 1 had a right to vote for who 1 pleased, and with what littlu education my parents could afford to give me I never hesi tated about tendering my vote yet ; how I may be disposed next November I cannot now say. lam now the father of three children; two of them are of an age to go to school, but I Irwe delayed placing them in any school for the last twelve months in the hope of putting them, with the Bible, into the corporation schools, Where I think I have a greater c laim (as a burgess) for my children to be educat d. I run really tired, Sir, of telling my little boy and girl that they cannot go yet, as the Bible is not there. And more than once I have been reminded by them that I said it 'naiad be there in December at the latest. When I read the council proceedings, yesterday, 1 was again reminded of my children, and how they would be disappointed. The gentlemen of the education committee must have been asleep, or intoxicated with success, never having prepared their resolutions about the system we are to have instead of this Papist system ; and I can assure you, Sir, if au; of the officers of our club had been so neglectful, we should before now have had a meeting, about "calling upon them to resign." I have left my family sick many nights to assist in my hum ble way to bring about a change in our corporation, and now that we have a conservative mayor and a conservative majo rity in the council, we have not the Bible and Bible teachers in the schools ; indeed, sir, I did not think of it before, but we have now in Liverpool a conservative corporation teach ing popery !! in their schools for the last month. 1 am, sir, yours, truly, AN OPERATIVE BURGESS. Toateth-park E" An Operative Burgess ", though a humble man, writts sensibly, and some of our professing protestant councillors would do well to give good heed to his advice.—E. L. S•J ANNIVERSARY DINNER OF TILE TRADESNIEN'S AS 6 " . T.\NTS.—The first anniversary dinner of the members and friends of the Association of Assistant Tradesmen took place yesterdry evening, at the Brunswick Hotel, Hanover street, and was numerously and most respectably attended. Mr. Flower ably presided on the occasion. Mr. Scholfield vice-president. The dinner was sumptuous, and in every re. spect did great credit to the good taste and management of the worthy host, Mr. Wightman. Amongst the gentlemen present we observed Mr. Belshaw, Mr. Hodgson, and others—friend s of the Association,—Messrs. Diill, Agard, Jones, Hillyard, Gibson, lanson, Clarkson, Connor, Hodgson, Pytield, Wil liams, Wright, Clarkson, and others—members. On flit cloth being drawn the usual loyal toasts were given with "all the honours," followed by the National Anthem, glees, tke. The toasts followed of " The Association of Assistant Tradesmen," "Health and prosperity to the tradesmen of Liverpool who have generously shown th e example of clos ing their shops at seven o'clock," Th e great and good of the town of Liverpool who have advocated the CtlllSe sod strengthened the hopes of the assistants in the ob ject they have in view. To the last toast Mr. Hodg son, secretary of the Mechanics Institution, (who had greatly exerted himself in behalf of the Association,,) most a bly and eloquently replied, giving some excellent advice to hi s young hearers to employ the time already partially granted to some of them, and that which would yet be granted, to moral and physical- improvement, which would be the means of obtainins. all that was required for the whole body, and of reconciling to their cause all who might enter tain an opinion that they would abuse it. He proposed " the health of the Committee of the association." He was loudly. applauded. This was ably responded to by Mr. Willmer,. who after a suitable eulogium on the chairman, for his exer. tions in behalf of the association, proposed his health, which was received with three times three. The Chairman re sponded in an able and feeling manner, impressing upon the members the necessity of every possible exertion .on their parts, not only in their meetings, but in the circle of these private acquaintances. He alluded, in a very happy' and facetious manner, to the Publicity he had himself given to the cause, by his endorsements of envelopes, bank. noses, &c. &c. with short senten ces or mo tt o es in further ance of the objects of the society. Mr. Gibson proposed the health of Mr. .Hodgson, who again spoke in felicitous terms, pointing out what he conceived would conduce to the benefit of those who. heard him, and secure the object in view for the whole of - the young assistants. The Chairman and several other gentlemen afterwards addressed the meeting on several topics in which they were interest e d ; but we regret that we h ave not room for *detail. Sufficz it to say, that betw een the addresses the company was higTily entertained by the glee singers, and that the evening w i l t ; past amidst a flow of convivial feeling, and the utmost' good-will, from the employed to the ewpioyer, which gives promise Of the keiviest rcettlte,