The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1842-01-07 00:00:00

been pursued merely from party purposes, only because i; had been adopted by committees not composed of men hold ing the.same politics as those now in the room. The fact may be denied, but it cannot be disproved that the great aim of the present committee is to force the catholics out of the schools. (Loud cries of " no, no.") The gentlemen say no, no ; then why frame regulations which you know will has e that effect ? Mr. GLADSTONE.—They will not have that effect. Mr. Alderman EARLE.—It will be your turn by and bye, Mr. Gladstone, and I shall listen to what you have to scy with infinite satisfaction. Now I think it would be a much fairer proposition to say at once that it was inexpedient that catholic children should be educated under the same roof with the protestants. That would have been more straight forward, manly, and honourable conduct ; that would have been a species of conduct that your constituencies out of doors, not mine, would have understood, and moreover, know how to appreciate. But by this underhand sort of work they know not one from the other. I like straightforward conduct. Now I believe there are many men among you that do not entertain these unjust ideas, and there would be more if their better judgments bad not been interfered with by that meddling divine to whom I have already referred. (Loud cries of " ito, - no," and " order.") Yes, sir, I say it is time —(renewed cries of " no, no," and " yes," with cries of " order." Mr. PARKER.—I rise to order. You can explain your own views but not thostrof other men. Mr.- Alderman EARI.U.—I appeal to the Mayor against these interruptions. Allow me, as you contradict me in this way, to give you an instance that I think will convince you when I have produced it. He would deprive them [the Ro man Catholics] of their civil rights by repealing the cruanc pation bill. (Great uproar ' The MAYOR.—I third. personal Mr. Earle, you ought not to be Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I am not at all personal, sir; but it is Mr. Parker who is so thin skinned. (Uproar.) Mr. PARKER called upon Mr. Earle to face the rev. gen tleman, to whom he was alluding, anywhere he liked, and said that Mr. M`Neile was able to meet him at any time. (Cheers.) Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I have met him before, and he retired like a coward from the contest. (Great uproar and confusion.) Mr. BRAMLEY-14loonE.—I will take this opportunity of stating. that Mr. M'Neile is a friend of mine, and that I never like the introduction of such .subjects here ; but I will say, Mr. Earle, that if Mr. M'Neile had worn a blue coat instead of a black one, you would not' have ventured to make such remarks as you have. Mr. Alderman' EARI.E.—I have got M•Neile here. which I will just read to N of " Question "s a letter from Mr. iu - (loud cries Mr. BRAMLW'V.MOORE said a few words which were in audible. • Mr. Alderman EATILE.-Mr. M`Neile has the same thing that Mr. Moore has. I will read a corres pondence if you please—(cries of " No")—to show I have made no falsehood. (Great uproar.) Mr. Pnoc•roß asked why the name of Mr. M`Neile should be perpetually dragged forward into this debate ? Mr. TOULMIN spoke to order, and protested against the name of the rev. gentleman being dragged forward in this manner. ccuse(l me of Mr.. Alderman EARLE did not care for Mr. Toulmin's pro test. 'Mr. Nl‘Neile had dragged himself forward in this matter, and not he (Mr. Earle.) (Renewed uproar.) The MAYOR thought the excitement was too great to en able the council to consider the subject in the manner it de served. Personalities ought to be avoided. Mr. Alderman EARLS.—My dear Mr. Mayor, if clergy men will attack and abuse us from their pulpits, I shall always speak again in t room.. It is the only place I can defend y self 1 uproar.) Mr; Ti OULMI urCiliZ U 1 LUC CUSU Mal Mr. Alderman EARLE—I am arguing upon the fact that this hatred towards Catholics induces them to pursue a line of conduct which their better judgment would repudiate. The MAYOR observed that it did not follow that every per son was guided by Mr. M'Neile. Mr. Alderman EARLE asked how it was then that the rev. gentleman preached against them from the pulpit ? The MAYOR said that perhaps instances of the same thing having been done on the other side could be adduced, if oc casion required. Mr. Alderman EARLE—Very well. I can easily under stand why the Roman Catholic obeys the mandate of the priest. It is because the church binds him to believe that that is his duty ; but that is not the Protestant feeling. Ido not understand why the same principle should be introduced into the Protestant church. Having our own opinions, how ever, as far as the congregation of St. Jude's is concerned, is a mere fiction. (Hear.) Some kind friend has sent us this letter signed" Crito," addressed to Mr. G. H. Lawrence, in which is given an admirable history of the Douay version. Mr. PARKER said that an anonymous epistle ought not to be read in the council. Mr. Alderman EARLE said he was not going to read it, but he dared say Mr. Parker had read it. Mr. PARKER said he had. Mr. Alderman EARLE hoped, then, that he understood it. (Loud laughter.) He was much obliged to his friends for theie frequent interruptions ; they had no effect upon him. He hoped that all the members of the council had read that letter ; and he hoped also, that the gentlemen to whom it was addressed had read it, for he seemed to be us ignorant as the rest about the Douay version. Allow him now to read what an Archbishop of Dublin had said. (Cries of " no, no," and " question.") What! not hear what your own archbishop says? (Cries of "go on.") Mr. E. then read a long extract from speech a of the Archbishop of Dublin, (Dr. Whateley,) to the teachers of the national system, on recently presenting each of them with a copy of the Holy Scriptures. Now, if he were to be guided by an ecclesiasti cal guide, he certainly would rather take the opinion of such a divine as the Archbishop of Dublin than that of others in our own neighbourhood. Last Sunday he heard (he had almost concluded) an excellent sermon from a very eloquent divine, one who addressed himself to the senses, and not to the passions, of his hearers. His text was. " Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." He told his congregation that it might not be an easy matter to do our duty towards our neighbour, but it was not a difficult one for us to ascer tain in what that duty consisted—that it might be discovered by placing ourselves in the position of that neighbour when ever we were about to act towards him. Mr. Earle con cluded by calling upon the council to act upon this principle upon the present occasion. Mr. ROBINSON said that as the amendment provided for no religious instruction to the Roman Catholic children, he should suggest another which would do so. He agreed en tirely with the recommendations that had issued from the Education Committee, as far as they related to the exclusion of all but the authorised version, and that the schools should open and close with prayer. Now the amendment he in tended to propose would enable Roman Catholics to have the Irish Extracts. Those extracts had been designated anony mous by several clergymen at public meetings and elsewhere c i but he' h o p e d t h at the gentlemen who had so designate them, and who were prejudiced against them, had compared them as he h a d w i t h t h e authorised version. He had read them sentence by sentence, and word by word, with the authorised version, and he would take that opportunity of stating, that, to the best of his belief and understanding, there was no variation in the spirit or import of them. (Hear.) He had also looked to the transposition of the Psalms in the common Prayer-book, and those in the autho rised version, and he had selected one or two instances where there was a more material difference between them than there was between the extracts and the authorised version of the scriptures. Mr. Robinson then read a variety of passages in support of his assertion ; and after some observations on the extracts, he concluded by moving as an amendment— " That the proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the Education Committee be approved, with the exception— That the four books of extracts be continued in the schools for the use and religious instruction of the children of the Roman Catholic persuasion, and such other sects as may object to lessons from the authorised version, and that it he optional with their parents or guardians whether such chil dren join in prayer or not." Mr. Busitim. said he did not rise for the purpose of re plying to Mr. Earle ; but he felt, in order that he might pro ceed in that steady onwardcourse which theirnportance of the subject demanded, that it was necessary he should brush him off as he would some troublesome wasp or gnat, and having got rid of the nuisance he should, with some comfort to him self, be able to get on. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr. EARLE.—I am sorry if I have stung you. (Renewed laughter.) Mr. BU SHELL--Happily, Mr. Earle was in the same position that Sir R. Peel described O'Connell to be, when he said that his praise or his censure was of little importance. The position of Mr. Earle both in the council and out of doors was so well understood, that, so far as he (Mr. B.) was concerned, he deemed it not of the slightest importance. (Hear.) He deemed it necessary to explain, in some degree, the circum stance with which he had coupled his name with that of Mr. M'Neile. Whatever differences might have existed between him and Mr. M'Neile they were between themselves. With those differences the public had nothing whatever to do • but he could assure th e council that so far as he had been able to judge for himself he had ever done so •, he still continued to do so; he had never submitted, and he never would, to any dictation, lay or clerical, which he considered impro per. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") With regard to their position as conservative members he felt that the reaction which had taken place inn the council had arisen in a great measure from the opinions expressed out of doors on the education question. It had been so made at the municipal hus tings, by the conservative press, in private conversation, and in every way in which they could make use of the question they had made it available, for the purpose of expelling those from power who introduced a system which the conservatives considered unjust and irreligious. (Hear, bear.) He avowed the fact boldly. If his constituents had asked him for his opinion three years ago, it would have been what he should express that day. If the conservatives were to adopt any other course than would be pursued that day, it would be said that they bad made the education question a stalking horse to go into power, and that the moment they achieved their object they kicked the vehicle from under them. Taking, then, the low-ground of consistency, he could not conceive how any man would act otherwise than he should act that day. What was the position of the schools when the late corporation came into power? There was then a very large majority of protestant, in them, who were receiving a religious instruction ; and when the " libe ral body came into power, they at once, without consulting tex he prejudices of the protestants, adopted a system which 13elled upon principle near l y t h e whole of the protestants fro m the schools. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Bushell then read some extracts from a return, which shew e d th a t th ere was a consider a bl e majority of Roman Catholics over protestants in the schools at the present time, although the proporti on which the former bore to the latter, so far as population went, was as one t o six. He asked w h e th er i t was h onest, just, or right, that a system should be continued in the schools which had the effect of excluding the protestants in suc h large numbe ;been said that on this strewing, every argument which h used by the " liberal " members might, with great truth, be turned against themselves. In reply to the objection urged by Mr. Turner, that we were about to enforce, upon Roman catholic children, doctrines to which their parents could not consent, he (Mr. B.) dis claimed any such intention. It was not that they would enforce Church of En land doctrines on those who were unwilling to receive them, but that they could not consent to impair the usefulness of their own scriptural instruction. He would give an example of . the probable effect, supposing embodied in his amendment, to be Mr. Turner's views, adopted. The children who_ are permitted to receive reli gious instruction, have the B placed in their hands ; and they are told that it is, far beyond all worldly considerations, important that they should read and understand it ; that glorious truths the foundation upon they should make its which they must rest every action of their lives, and every hope of eternal salvation. And what must be said to the children who are not permitted to receive religious instruc tion ? They must be told that worldly conside ra ti ons, and a regard for th e p re j u di ces of men, render it inexpedient that they should rea d th a t ver y Bible which their neighbours on the adjoining form are taught to . rest upon as thei r only •hope of sa l va ti on . (H ea r, hear.) His objection then to Mr. Turner's proposition was, that by it he would bring dow n scr i ptura l i nstruct i on to t h e level of grammar, geography, or any oth er b ranc h o f s e c ular instruction, wh ic h might, or might not, be taught at the optionntthe to parent. This, he (Mr. B.) mus t aga i n conten d, cou ld failby no im pair the u se f u l ness o f re li g i ous teac hi ng. He was means prepared to say, although he bad not made up his mind upo n th e su bj ec t, t h at h e wou ld not give his own money to the utmost extent of his means, to give the Roma i n Ca tholic instructio n , secu l ar i nstruct i on a l one, prov id e d t were found, as he since re ly t ruste d wou ld not b e t h e case , that they were excluded f rom th e corporat i on sc h oo l s b y their pa- 3 individuals rents dissenting from the "religious teaching there given. He felt that it was unnecessary for him to vinelicate the gentle men who acted with Mr. Smith on the o,;casion to w hic that gentleman had alluded. Mr. Smith, it was evident , ha not made the important discovery which ho would have the council to believe. There was an essential difference between Mr. Smith's proposition and that of Mr. Birch. The latter, at that time, was unfortunately in a minority. He had no power to obtain what he wished, and was obliged to be con tent to take what he could get. (Hear. hear.) He, being truly a liberal, thought the liberality of " liberal" gentlemen would, seeing that they had deprived the Protestant commu nity of their own schools, give him a small proportion of that which was honestly due. Therefore, Mr. Birch was perfectly consistent in moving that new schools should be erected and continued, on the principles on which the old schools had formerly existed in the borough, namely, on sound Protestant principles. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Birch only so far consented to the new system be cause he could not successfully oppose' it ; and those who voted with him voted consistently. . Mr. Smith, how ever, proposed the very reverse of this, and he might re concile his course now with his course then as he best could. (Hear, hear.) The case of 111 r. Birch furnished an .ad ditional weapon to the conservatives; because, if the just and equitable concession he pleaded for were not conceded, it was by no means difficult to see front what quarter the bigotry, cruelty, and intolerance, of which they had heard so much, first proceeded. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) Neither could it have escaped the recollection of - the council that when the change in the system of education here was first contemplated, the Rectors memorialized the council ; and, with a liberality which did them and their brother clergy great honour, offered, if the corporation would give them up, to take the schools into their own hands and provide the whole funds necessary for their maintenance. (Hear, hear.) How this offer was received be, (Mr. B.) need not inform the council. The spirit evinced by the " liberals" when in power, he admitted, formed no reason why conservatives should now retaliate ; but it was nevertheless necessary that they should not lose sight of weapons which their opponents had placed within their grasp, nor fail, by opposing facts of illiberality to arguments which had been used against themselves, to turn those weapons to the best account. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) With regard to the exclusion of the Roman Catholic children from the schools, he had a hope, not unreasonably founded, that a very large proportion of them would con tinue in the schools. From a statistical return it appeared that there was not a protestant school in Liverpool in which there were not very many Roman Catholics. In Ireland — the hot-bed of Roman catholicism—there were 22,000 chil dren of that persuasion in the protestant schools. (Hear, Near.) So far as he was concerned, if the Roman Catholic ;,.-sts would consent to give the Douay translation of the Testament, without note or comment, he would consent to receive it. Respecting this view there might be some differ ence of opinion ; but he had examined the two translations for himself ; and further, had received a confirmatory opinion from a clergyman in whose judgment he had the highest confidence. He would read to them an extract or two which would show, that it is not for the Douay translation which the Homisb priests themselves contend, but for thenotes which accompany it. "It appears that several gentlemen in Lon don formed a plan for printing and circulating the Douay trans lation. In this they were at first encouraged by the Rev. Peter Gandolphy, a Romish priest in that city, who declared, on behalf of himself and brethren, that they would be ready to circulate the Bible, in English, among their people, if any society would give them their own translation." The Rev. P. Gandolphy says, in a letter to the Rev. Win. Marsh,— " If any of the Bible societies feel disposed to try our esteem for the Bible, by presenting us some copies of a Catholic version, with or without notes. we will gratefully acccept, and faithfully distribute, them." When, however, his oiler was embraced, and Protestants were about to g of the New Testament in h Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE said there was ; but putting that aside for the present he would state,..that on referring to Mr. Belsham and Dr. Chatining, he found that they used a ver sion different to the authorised version. For the present he would put aside the Unitarian Bible, but there was the Arian Bible ; and with such a variety he wished to know what sort of religious instruction they could get out of such a cauldron? That would be turning the schools, in his opinion, into nurseries of scepticism and infidelity, and the sooner they were closed the better. - But to set aside altogether the argu ment in a religious point of view, or rather as regarded which edition of the Bible was the best, he would put it upon another footing. He thought that all would .support that system which was calculated to produce the greatest amount of morality in the mind. He might contrast Catholicism with Protestantism and afterwards contrast Protestant Prus sia with almost demoralised Rome; he might contrast England in opposition to those once great and magnificent countries Spain and Portugal; but he would come nearer home, and take the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; and he was prepared to prove, that where Protest antism reigned and Catholicism and liomanism prevailed in a lesser degree there was a greater amount of morality, and a smaller amount of crime than in any other part of the em pire. If any gentleman should doubt this, he should be happy to show him from some tables which he had drawn up upon. the subject that such was the case ; and as he thought a few figures were worth all the declamation in the world, lie begged to call attention to them. Mr. Moore then read some statistical tables, which proved clearly that where Pro testantism abounded crime was very much diminished, and that the contrary was the fact in every country where Popery Abounded. He should not dwell longer upon this subject. It was his intention to have said much more, but he felt that after the debate which had taken place it would be unneces sary. He should support the original motion. Mr. BOLTON suggested that, as it was now past 3 o'cl , ck, it would be advisable to adjourn. (Cries of " No, no.!') Mr. PLATT briefly supported the amendment. Mr. YATES said he could not let this measure pass with out entering his strongest protest against those principles which had been laid down by the Education Committee. It was asserted by the gentlemen on the other side. that they thought the Roman catholics would not be driven out of the schools, but how they could entertain that opinion when they had a note from the Roman catholic clergy, saying the chil dren could not go to the schools on these terms, without compromising their religious opinions, did appear to him to be astonishing. It had been said by Mr. Parker, or some other gentleman present, that the objections made by the Ro- man catholics were very unreasonable, as all they required the Roman catholics to do was to read the Bible, which would guide them to heaven. Now, it was not for one man to jud g e for another what it was his duty to do or not to do ; religion was a thing between man and his maker, with which no one should rashly interpose Ti►e right of conscience was one feared it would oppose red yens' nciple , orn they w misinterpret certain important texts, unaccompanied by explanations." These facts have been very extensively circulated, under the title of " Correspondence on the For mation, Objects, and Plan of the Roman Catholic Bible So ciety," 1813. Now, had he (Mr. B.) not effectually an swered, by these facts, the charge so constantly brought against the conservatives, that they were about to exclude the Scriptures from these schools ? It was here proved that, supposing we were willing to give to Roman Catholics their translation, upon the same terms on which we gave our own —namely, without note or comment—they would not be content to receive it. (Hear, hear.) It was not, then, for the Scriptures, as such, which they contend, but for their church's comments. The doctrines contained in these com ments he could not consent to teach • seeing, as he would prove if necessary, by the notes which lie held in his hand, that by the notes themselves, and, as he believed, not by the text, were popish principles alone inculcated. Let us hear no more, then, about depriving the Roman catholic children of their Bible ; if they be deprived, let the blame rest where it was so justly due. (Hear, hear.) He must apologise for occupying so long the attention of the council, but he de sired to touch one other point. It was the fashion in these " liberal" times to seize upon every opportunity to direct " heavy blows and great discouragement," not only against our church, but her ministers. Let any established prin ciple be contended for, and it was immediately denounced as " bigotry and intolerance." Members of the establishment are not permitted to declare any conscientious opinion. And even with those who do not go to this extreme length, and who consider themselves friendly to the protestant church, there is a yielding and a truckling to what are called liberal opinions which arc utterly contemptible. (Hear, hear.) To show how different is the course of the Romish church in such matters he would read to them an extract from a letter from Rome, addressed to ear!, of the popish archbishops of Ireland. It was given' at Rome, at the Propaganda, the 16th January, 1841, on the questions involved in the con troversy which has been raised in Ireland on the subject of the new system of national education:— against Christians this war was begun • it was the children of Christians they were going to expel from their schools ; they carried on a warfare againSt the great bulk of the Chris tians. If they refetred to the pages of history, they would find men of the most distinguished talents,--"-of the most dis tinguished learning and piety—men of unbounded benevo lence—men willing to devote their lives as well as their per sonal exertions and sacrifices for the good of their fellow creatures, and it was against such men that they were now raising up their weapons of warfare. (Hear, hear, hear.) He hoped and trusted that they would pause before they did this. The same God who protected the Protestants would protect the Roman Catholics also; the same liberty of conscience had been given to Roman Catholics, and let not Protestants dare to invade it. (Hear, hear.) They had the power to do this, but Mr. Turner had wisely advised them to use it with moderation. They had power to expel the children—so had Herod, who was eaten with worms, when he put to death the apostle James ; so had Nero power when he put St. Paul to death ; so had Pontius Pilate, who died in miserable exile, because he caused our Saviour to be con demned—but let them "not exercise their power unjustly. With what horror would the luminaries of their church—the Burnetts, Chillingworths, Taylors, and Jebbs—look down on that assembly and see them plotting against Roman Catho lics ! (" Oh, oh !") With what horror would they see the council of Liverpool restraining that right of conscience which God had given to all ; above all, that the rich were committing this act of spoliation on the poor—that the strong had taken advantage of the weak? (Hear, hear.) Should this go forth to the world ? He trusted that gen tlemen would pause in this their headlong course. (Hear.) It was said that they (the liberals) had received notice to quit. If so, perhaps they could not do better than suffer this resolution of the Education Committee to pass without re monstrance. They might thus strengthen themselves; but he desired no such thing. He wished them to reconsider the subject, and act in the spirit of true Christianity. He wished them to consider the example of the 2000 ejected ministers of the Church of England in 1662. That dishonourable monarch, King Charles 11., regardless of the solemn pro mises contained in the declaration of Breda, that no man should be molested in person or property on account of his religious opinions, so long as he preserved the public peace, was regardless of the pledge he gave when he wished to ascend the throne of England, and expelled two thousand ministers of the gospel. This expulsion lighted up the flame of civil and religious liberty, which ultimately expelled his successor from the throne. Now they were going to expel nine hundred and thirty children from these schools; that was an act of spoliation, injustice, and cruelty, which could never pass unpunished. He was sure that they would relent if they considered, in their own minds, that of these now innocent, if they were turned out many of the boys might become thieves and the girls prostitutes. (Hear and laughter) If such were the consequences, would they still triumph ? Would they still think that they had performed the will of God? " lst.-LThat all books which contain any noxious matter either against the canon or the purity of the sacred scrip ture, or against the doctrine of the catholic church, or morality, ought to be removed from:the schools ; hod this can be more easily effected, because there is no law of the said system opposed to it." " 2d.—That every effort is to be made that none but a Roman catholic preceptor shall give religious, moral, or historical lectures to the catholic schoolmasters in the model schools ; for it is not fitting that a catholic should be taught the method of giving instruction in religion or religious history by one who is not a catholic." " 3d.—That it is much safer that literary instruction should be given in mixed schools, than that the fundamental arti cles, as they are called, and the articles in which all Chris tians agree should alone be taught there in common, reserv ing for separate instruction the tenets peculiar to each sect ; for this manlier of acting in regard to children, appears very dangerous. Mr. PARKER said he had been three times alluded to in Mr. Yates's speech, and he begged to be allowed to explain. (Cries of " No, no, and vote.") Mr. PRIESTLEY supported the amendment. Mr. BOLTON, seconded by Mr. Mellor moved, that the debate he adjourned, on theground that the council might go on for two or three hours longer, and have to adjourn at last. On a division, which was taken by the members standing up, the numbers were— "4t11.-Z.That generally the bishops and the parish priests should carefully watch that no taint be contracted by the catholic children from this system of national instruction, through any cause whatever. That the sacred congregation is also of opinion that it would be very useful that the school houses should be vested exclusively in the bishops or the pa rish priests. That it is also their duty strenuously to endea vour to obtain from the government, by degrees, a better order of things, and more equitable conditions." This (Mr. B. continued) is the uncompromising course of our opponents; exhibiting a diligence, a watchfulness, and a firmness which we should do well to imitate. (Hear, hear.) After alluding to the plan of separating the Protestants from the Roman Catholic children in the schools at the time of singing and prayer, he concluded by suggesting to the wealthy Roman Catholics the propriety of imitating the conduct of the Protestants, should their children be really turned from the schools, and subscribing, as did the latter, £15,000, ra ther than their children should suffer through the want of education. Mr. PA RICER said, that, before he expressed his sentiments on this momentous question, he must be allowed to observe upon some personal remarks which, coming from a gentleman of Mr. Earle's station in life, were anything but gentlemanly remarks. But to be chastised, or attempted to be chastised by that individual in company with such a man as Mr. M'Neile was the highest compliment that Mr. Earle could have paid him. Though Mr. Earle drove about in his drag, and talked about his education and descent, he (Mr. Parker) was not ashamed to allude to his lineage, who had fought and bled for th‘e principles which he stood in that council to ad vocate. (Hear, hear.) The most appropriate word in the English language that he could apply to Mr. Earle's senti ments was that of " humbug ;" for from one end to the other of his speech it was nothing else. He believed that the edu cation question had been the means of turning many of the radical members out of the council, and that the rest of them had got notice to quit. It had been said that the conserve live members had been dictated to by the Protestant clergy; but such was not the fact. Had the Protestant clergy memo rialised the council ? No ; but, on the contrary, the Boman Catholic clergy had done so. Four-fifths of the population of the town were in favour of scriptural education in the schools, and before the next council-day sixteen petitions would, if necessary, be presented in opposition to the one which hid emanated from the burgesses of Castle-street Ward. He concluded by saying he should support the pro position of the Chairman of the Ed u cation Co mm itt ee . (Cries of " Vote, vote.') Mr. GEORGE HALL LAWRENCE said, though lie intended to vote in favour of the proposal that Mr. Turner had sub mitted, he was bound to say he must do so with some quali fication and restriction, inasmuch as it held out a desire to encourage secular education independently of religion—a proposition which he confessed he had some hesitation in affirming. He had enquired right and left from various friends whom he had met of all parties, and in particular he had had several conversations upon the subject with a reverend and near relative of his, upon whose opinions he placed great reliance, and by whose advice he wished to act. He must confess, however, that he had not been able to arrive at the same conclusions as his respected relative, al though upon many points they entirely agreed. After some further observations to the same effect, Mr. Lawrence con cluded by reading some extracts from a letter from his relative, and said he should under all circumstances feel bound to vote for the amendment. Mr. BRADLEY-MOORE said that if Mr. Lawrence, at the commencement of his speech, had not boldly told the coun cil how he intended to vote, he should have concluded after his speech that he would have voted quite differently to what he had said he would. He had informed the council that he had consulted right and left every one with whom he had come into contact ; but he (Mr. Moore) feared f rom th e tenor of his speech, and from his intended vote, that he had at last got between two stools and fallen to the ground. (Hear, hear.) It would be a matter of great regret to him (Mr. Moore) if anything of the sort that was now proposed by the committee should have the effect of driving from the schools the Roman catholic children ; he did not apprehend that this would be the case, but as touching the admission of more than version he would not consent to that. He did not agree with Mr. Bushell, who said he saw no objection to the intro duction of the Douay version. He (Mr. Moore) confessed he had never read the Douay version till after the last meet ing of the council ; Ile bought one then, and perused it ; and he therein found not only idolatry taught, liut a variety of of objectionable matter that might be particularly noticed, and if any gentleman wished it he could give instances of that. (Cries of " no, no," and "go on.") He was one of those who was disposed to let the community have the full benefit of the Bible without note or comment as far as it could be done ; but the same law gave them an authorised version of the Bible and which constituted them trustees for the publ recognised none other, therefore, he, for one, could not re commend any other. They, as petty law makers, and hum ble imitators of parliament, were bound not only by the de claration which they had subscribed on going into that coun cil not to injure the church, but to set an example of obedi ence to the laws, and their first point should be that they re cognised only one Bible to the exclusion of all others. It was much to be regretted that this council should have meddled with anything involving theological opinions ; but as this necessity did unfortunately devolve upon them, they must deal with it as they best could, and in the kindest feel ing towards those who differed from them. It was a matter of great satisfaction to him that in this parti cu l ar th ey h a d the law of the la n d t o gu id e them into'just conclusions • and the law of the land distinctly recognized one Bible to the ex clusion of every other. For the motion Against it Majority against adjourning. Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I hope that after this every gen tleman will be allowed to speak who has got any thing to say. Mr. BOLTON said it was his wish to avoid any thing like polemical discussion, but the question was so much on the ex clusive reading of the anthorized version, that he felt called on to say a little on that subject. There were two matters treating on the existing system of education in these schools. One was the beginning with prayer and singing, and the other was that the authorized version should be the book exclusively taught to all children attending these schools. With a little arrangement the prayer might be continued as it then was at the South School, with which and with Mr. Turner's arrange men the should be satisfied. With regard to the introduction of the authorized version only, they had the memorial of the Catholic priests in Liverpool, and he had also taken pains to ascertain the opinions of many of his friends who were Ca tholics, and they were unanimously of opinion that it would be unjust, and, in its effects, exclude the Catholic children from the schools, if the compulsory reading of the authorized version was enforced. 'With that declaration before them he did trust that the council would not carry by a majority a rule which in its application would have such an unjust bearing. It was perfectly true that there were schools belonging to churches and chapels which made such regulations, because they were at liberty to make what regulations they pleased ; but he knew of one school with which he was connected, in which there was perfect liberty given to the pupils to go to any place of worship they liked, the only regulation was that they should go to some place, and on their parents and guar dians undertaking that they should go to some place they were allowed to leave Paradise-street. With regard to the au thorized version, if they could be convinced that it was a direct emanation from God; that there was neither a word too much nor a word too little in it, there might be something said if mankind could be convinced ot that truth. What was the authorized version? At the time of the Reformation there were a variety of manuscripts and translations of the Bible in ex istence. The Protestant divines whom King James employed took advantage of all the manuscripts and translations that were then in existence ; and he (Mr. B.) gave them credit for the utmost purity of intention. They gave as faithful a tran slation as they could, and it was then made the authorized version of this country. But could any man now pretend to say that with the increased knowledge they had now of eastern customs, and the great number of manuscripts which had been brought to light within the last few years, a translation under all these circumstances would not be much different ? The Douay version, which %N as a translation of' the vulgate, boasted of a more ancient origin than their own text did, and, therefore, was entitled to more credence. The celebrated manuscript at Cambridge contained only four Gospels and the Acts, and the rest were all collated from single manu scripts and epistles, and thus it was that they had it. Sottici , of their bishops bad made a version of them, and in the same way as bad been alluded to by Mr. Moore, they had what was called the Unitarian version. It was true that Mr. Bel sham, Dr. Priestley, and others, had given what they thought an amended edition of several parts which they considered deficient. And as there was such a great difference of opinion in many minds, it was but fair to give that measure of justice to the Catholics, which they required for themselves. None of them would like to have the Douay version as their school book, and why require Catholics to read their Protestant version? One of the first maxims of Christianity was, to " Do unto others as you would be done by," and why re quire, therefore, the Catholics to read a book w hi c h th e y could not acknowledge as a due authority ? Something had been said about the Catholics being one-sixth of the popula tion of Liverpool. He •believed one-fourth was nearer the mark. Another gentleman had given them some statistical accounts, and had drawn conclusions which it was not always very fair to draw ; but there was one application of it which would show that this number of Catholics could not be right. In the statements published by the parish clerk, they would find that the whole of the christenings in 1841 was 10,053, and out of this number there were 2798 Catholics, which was more than one-fourth. He believed the system which had been introduced had been found to be one giving an excellent secular education, and considerable instruction in religious matters to the Catholics after their belief, and to the Pro testants after theirs. With regard to the number of Catholics being greater, they must recollect that the Catholics were three to one, or four in proportion to any other class. (Hear, hear.) The catholics, as a body, had very few of the wealthy amongst them, whilst all other denominations had a conside rable portion of the wealthy. The catholics, being the poorer, were entitled to have this relief given to them. The Irish were a very susceptible class of people. On the ground of their poverty, they were entitled to have education administered to them, and he would ask was it just or prurient to exclude these persons from the benefit of a good education, which they had enjoyed for six years, and subject themselves to that natural resentment to which they would be subjected ? if they would not consider the question on the score of justice, let them consider it on the score of prudence. Two letters of Crito had been published, and they furnished. an excellent illustration. They presumed that if the Town Council were to invite the whole of the inhabitants to a feast, and if they were to offer to the Tews some pork, it would be considered exceedingly ungracious; but would it not be equally bad in them if the Town Council were to invite a number of Catho lics to dine on a fast-day or Friday, and say to them, " We have prepared for you authorized roast beef; we know you have an objection to it, but we have purposely excluded fish ?" Why would they do the same way, then, by inviting the Catholic children to their schools, when they knew that their priests and parents could not conscientiously allow them. They should ever bear in mind that the funds were for the benefit of the whoie inhabitants. He hoped that would always he kept in mind. It bad been said, ' Sell the A COUNCILLOR—No, no. Mr. BRAMLRY-MOORE—Did the law of the land recognize any other? Mr. FREM E said the law of the land did not recognize any Bible at all. There was nothing about it in the municipal act. Mr. BRAIALEY-MOORE WORM like to ask gentl emen if th e y Wished to have more than one version of the Bible, if they would have the Arian Bible, the Swedenborgian Bible, the Douay Bible, and the Unitarian Bible ? Mr. BARCLAY inquired what was the Unitarian Bible, for he had never heard of it. chools. Perhaps there was some justice in that considera tion, if they could not be carried on peaceably. He beliesed they had hitherto been carried on peaceably—(loud cries of " No, no,")—and to the advantage of the public in general nd the poor Irish. --Be this as it might, the Corporation, the Municipal ' - -as pr caw - 'o ACC NV. asst.., _le possession of these schools, and they were botind to deal with them as the act directed. Mr. Bushell had said he had no objection to the Douay version without notes. He was surprised at such a statement, when it was known that it was the peculiar opinion of the Catholics that they were not to have any opinion of their own, only that which their church gave them. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Busum.L.—Notes are not Scripture. Mr. BOLTON.—What were catechisms but notes on scrip ture? Something bad been said about new schools; and if that was the only result which was to follow, he should be extremely glad that from 12,000 . to 14,000 had been raised for the education of the poor protestant. scholars. It was a very laudable object, spurred on as the people were by the course the council adopted. It had been said that the pro testants had been excluded. He denied it. He had given notice of an instruction to the Education . Committc time ago, and had withdrawn it from a hope that a spirit of conciliation was showing itself in some of the parties by a vote which they had given ; and at the same time intimated that he had been induced to give notice of that motion in consequence of some undue influence exercised over the com mittee of these schools by an individual who did, in some degree, upset their deliberations. He attended at the south schools, and on reading the books he found the matter he went to inquire for, and which he had seen before. It was as follows: " At a meeting of the South School Sub-committee, held 23d, November, 1841: PRESENT, G. H. Lawrence, Chairman, Thomas Sands, H. R. Sand- Inch, John Platt, A.. Smith, jun., Thomas Bulley, Ebenezer Rae, Richard Harhord. The following letter was received from the Ladies' Committee:— " The Ladies who have visited the Smith Corporation girls' and infants' Schools, have considered their charge as ending with the committee, which had appointed them, and have therefore waited to be re-appointed by the new com mittee before meeting again.. Till their wishes are known, the ladies will continue each to attend to the particular charges they have severally undertaken, and which, they would relinquish with regret." The following reply was mare by the chairman to the above. " Madam,—ln reply to your communication of the 9th . - instant, on the part of the ladies who have been in the habit of visiting the South Corporation Schools, I am desired to state, that the sub-committee are sensible of the value of the ladies' assistance—they invite them to continue to visit the schools, as heretofore, and they trust there will be nothing in the mode of conducting them that will de give the cotu- mittee of the co-operation of the ladies." (Signed) ", G. H. LAWRENCE, Chairman. November 23, 1841. Mr. HODGSON. — Mr.Lawrence, did you sign that? Mr. G. fl. LAWRENCE.—No. which they ought never to relinquish ; it could neither be bought nor sold ; they might at times give up property, they might give up personal liberty, or even their lives, when they thought that their country'retptired the sacrifice ;" but they Could never give up their conscience : that was a a thing en- _ trusted to them to be preserved until the day of their death. Mr. BOLTON heard that, after the business of the corn- If it were important that they should acknowledge the rights mittee was over, a gentleman who was on the School Corn of conscience and religious liberty as regarded those who had mittee, but was appointed to take the management of the arrived at years of maturity and were'able to judge for them- North School, came into the school, asked what they were selves, how much more important was it that they should not about, and, as he (Mr. B.) was informed, was exceedingly attempt to violate the consciences of children, to contand- angry, and said they had no right to send such a letter. Ile nate their truth, ingenuousness, and unsullied purity, by was also informed, by the records of the committee, that the causing them to say that that was true which they believed general committee referred this matter back. He did not in their hearts to be false? Would they dare to violate their find that the general committee or the sub-committee had consciences by telling them to do that which they were told again considered it; but the schoolmaster had communicated by their priests and religious teachers it was improper for the information that the letter had been sent, and that it them to do? What was it that caused our Saviour to place ought not to have been sent. Now, if gentlemen, by their little children in the midst of his disciples, and so tell them influence, could keep back that which was regularly that of such was the kingdom of heaven ? Was it not inge- ordered to be sent, he was fully justified in expressing nuousness and purity of mind; and would they dare to taint , his doubt that those gentlemen on that committee would le chairman of t _ (Much confusion.) He maintained that there were some gentlemen who dared not act up to their own prin ciples. (Cries of " Question, question.") He had heard it from parties who were there, and it had brew printed in the papers that, at some protestant meeting, a rev. gentleman re presented that at the next meeting of the council conserva tives would all vote right. Was it befitting a priest, whose duty it was to mind his congregation, to come into forums and to be lecturing their people, saying that the corporation would be all right ? Were the corporation of Liverpool to be priest-ridden in that way ? (Cries of " No, no," and " Vote, vote.") He had not much more to say. He exceedingly re gretted the fanatical spirit which had risen up since the Irish priests had come amongst them. It might be traced to what he would call their unholy influence. The feelings which he entertained on religion were directly opposed to the Roman catholics, but he was answerable alone to his Maker for the convictions to which he had come. Believing that the peace of the town and the interests of the town would be promoted by going on as they had done, he would most heartily sup port Mr. Turner's amendment. Mr. HARBORD felt called upon to say a few words, in order to clear himself from some aspersions that had been directed towards him by Mr. Bolton, and also with the view of putting the council in a correct position. A letter certainly was pre pared to be sent to the ladies' committee, when it fortunately met the notice of one of the committee of the North School at the eleventh hour. Although he (Mr. Harbord) did not then object to the ladies being re-appointed, he never gave his voice in favour of their appointment; indeed, he ob jected to it at the first. He protested against it, but he was told by members of the committee that the ladies had nothing to do with religious instruction—that their duties were ex clusively secular; and upon that assurance he withdrew his objection. The letter was prepared, and Mr. Hodgson cer tainly cautioned the sub-committee against sending it. In the mean time he and a friend of his went to the school, and they found that the information which had been given to them, by a member of the committee, that the ladies did not engage in giving religious instruction had been given without knowledge, to say the least of it. They met a lady of the Ladies' Committee, and he (Mr. Harbord) put the question to her, and her reply was, " Oh, dear sir, religious instruction is the chief part of our duty ; we take the greatest delight in it; I, for my own part, take the Church of Eng land and protestant children, and Mrs. Rathlmne takes the Roman catholic children." The letter was not bent, there fore; the chairman had not signed it; and upon inquiry it appeared that the schoolmaster had taken upon himself to send the letter without the knowledge of the chairman. and saw dently. jumped e was independeut, 1 act indepea Mr. HODGSON said the l e tter had • ... - - • -beenVsiyued, Mr. Alderman EARLE said it was signed in the book Mr. BOLTON said he saw it signed the iioa - yesierClay • Mr. HAIL/10RD said the fact was, the sub-committee had been grossly deceived, and he thought it was indispensable for that council to know what the workings of the school were. He had in his possession, by request of the com mittee, some of the books that were used which had been introduced somewhere about the same time as the Donny version. One of them was called the Customs and Annals of the Jews, and it was brought to the committee among others by the schoolmaster. On opening it in the presence of all the committee, they found a number of erasures in it, and the question was put to the master, whether he had struck those passages out. He replied no. Is this book used in the school? Yes. By whose authority were these erasures made? Why, sir, he said, the books have been sent to the priest, and these erasures were made by the priest. On the committee referring to them, they saw that the his torical accounts of the inhuman and murderous conduct of the Roman Catholics towards the Jews had all been carefully struck out ! He could tell the council much more than this, but under the circumstances he would not allude to anything further. Mr. Harbord then referred to several matters in the mode of managing the schools, and concluded by saying, that in the case referred to, the committee had been grossly deceived. (Cries of " Vote, vote.") Mr. FREME moved an adjournment. (No, no.) Mr. AIKIN rose amidst loud cries of " spoke, spoke." These continuing for some time, he exclaimed—l have no hesitation in saying that rather than submit to this dictation I shall continue to move an adjournment from hour to hour if I keep you here till midnight. _ Mr. i-lODGSON hoped thelmayor would not allow the coun cil to be intimidated in this manner. Mr. Alderman EARLE.—lntimidation ! Every man has aright to move an adjournment. Mr. AIKIN repeated that if he was not allowed to speak, he should persist in moving an adjournment. After some further discussion Of a warm character, a divi sion was taken on Mr. Freme's motion for an adjournment, when there appeared— For the motion Against it 34 • The amendment was consequently lost. The following gentlemen voted in the division : For the motioii—Councillors, I. Holmes, Thornhill, Pres ton, H. Holmes, Mellor, J. Holmes, Bolton, Aikin, Bright, Priestley, Yates, Robinson, J. Smith, Jordan, Platt, and Mather. Aldermen, Holt, Bulley, Freme, Fvans, Barclay, Earl, Moon, and Turner. Against the motion—Councillors, Shaw, Shand, Hodgson, Sandbach, Copeland, Edwards, Blundell, Sands, Rae, As pinall, Toulmin, J. Lawrence, Cooper, Wood, Birkett, Glad stone, Bushell, Procter, Lloyd, Rigby, Kilshaw, Parker, Jones, jun., G. H. Lawrence, Smith, jun., and Harbord. Aldermen, Houghton, Nicol, Griffith, Chilton, Bramley- Moore, Molyneux, Crook, and the Mayor. After a few remarks from Mr. BOLTON, The M AYOR intimated that Mr. Aikin might proceed. Mr. AIKIN said that in speaking of this subject he could not but refer back to the great promises of liberality held out to them. In that liberality a new light had begun to dawn upon them, and of which they had had so many promises from some members of the council. At that time a propo sition was made to appoint a committee, and in the course of the discussion a gentleman threw out his views as to the resolution that he would agree to. He was not allowed to speak ; he was coughed down by his own party, and it was assumed that he would disgust some others of his own party. A motion was made to adjourn, with a view to the formation of a committee of a more liberal nature In the first place about live of the minority were introduced, and in the very committee so proposed these five were reduced to three — Messrs. Priestley, Bulley, and Platt. Instead of a more conciliatory committee being chosen, a committee much worse was chosen, and why ? Because that party was taken to task by some who had supported him. They found also in Toxteth park another person. " I have been a very naughty boy, but if you forgive me, I do promise I will never indulge these radicals by supporting any more of their motions." It had been said that they had no right to discuss anything said in the pulpit, but if they found that an undue liberty had been taken, he said he had a right to denounce it as a desecration of that holy place, and to say that that pulpit had been perverted to a most unholy purpose. And he said that if they found that upon this very question, on which so much hung towards the well-being of Ireland—the orange system which had been so long the curse of that country, was about to be introduced into Liverpool, he could not help rising to exclaim against the danger with which they were threatened, and he would say that the individual to whom he alluded, was no better than the great high priest of mischief who dictated to any person in this matter. Mr. BUSHELL said Mr. Aikin looked at him as he spoke, and he believed he alluded to him. He wished Mr. Aikin to understand that he disclaimed any influence having been used towards him. He pledged his hcnour that such in terference had had no influence on his mind, and Mr. Aikin should be satisfied with that. (Hcar, hear.) Mr. ATKIN had not mentioned any individual, but if Mr. Bushell found it applied a little to himself he could not help it. (Laughter.) He begged of Mr. Bushell, who was not a little impatient when any person interrupted him, to allow him to proceed in his own course, and perhaps some person might brush off the wasp as he had done to his friends oppo site. (Laughter.) He would now leave that subject. Mr. BUSHELL.—The sooner the better, Sir, unless you are less personal._ _ . Mr. AIKIN said the personalities had taken place in conse quence of the interruptions, especially so in the case of Mr. Parker. Mr. G. H. Lawrence had said, that he was half inclined to support the erection of schools for secular in• struction ; now, if that half became a whole, he thought they might be able to come to some conclusion. It would save the time of the Council if they would come to the conclusion that the Douay version only, without notes, should be intro duced into the schools. _ A CoimiciLLoß.—The clergy would not allow it. Mr. Amp; knew that; but he (Mr, Bushell) had stated his willingness to do so, and he was quite sure if he would persevere in it every difficulty would disappear. A variety of arguments had been introduced about th e tyranny of R oman Catholics, and about the priesthood of that persuasion, at the time they had dominant power. He was qu i te sure t h at, whatever priesthood had the dominant power, so long as hu man nature remained as it was, that power would ,ever be abused : but if they raked up old thin gs , was i t any excuse for them to do an act of injustice on others because they had the power. Would it not be better to show that they, having the power, did not abuse it, and that the more their principles were examined, and the more they were diffused, the sounder would be the foundation on which their church would be raised ? Would it not be perfectly clear, that if the Protes tants were on the right, side, and the Catholics and Protes tants mingling together—that they being perfectly conscious that their dcctrine was based on the truth—was it not per. feetly clear that truth would prevail, and, by an amalgama tion of the two classes, a better state of kindly feeling would exist in future' life, rather than that produced by knowing that they were denounced from the pulpit? He recollected very well that, at the school he was educated in Scotland, he never saw the Bible introduced. Mr. MooaE.— regard for it. -That accounts for your having so little Mr. ATKIN heard a member say that was the reason why he had so little regard for it. He believed those had the great est regard for it who made the least profession. (Hear, hear.) Whenever religion was obtruded on the world, he believed it was to cover some serious error. If they were satisfied that education would do good, then they must, as honest men, give that education to those who were inclined to receive kin their own peculiar way. It was absurd to say to Catholic parents " We do not want to drive away your children," and then introduce such rules as would drive them away. Would it not be more honest to say, " No, we will have done with you," than to pass rules to drive them away? A great compliment had been paid to him. It had been said by one gentleman (Mr. Parker) in consequence of reading the me morial so well, he supposed that it was his own production. A greater compliment was never paid to him ; he only wished he could write such a one. They had been told that they could get sixteen memorials of an opposite tendency ; but he did not care if there were one thousand six hundred he would hold that up as a satisfactory reply to all. Mr. Moore had said something about the Douay version teaching islolatry. That had nothing to do with the question ; there was no propo sition about the Douay version. It was proposed if this amend ment were carried, that noDouay version should be introduced. His statistics also would not tell very much in his favour. He made it out that there was less crime in Scotland. That was easily accounted for. There was less, and had been ever since they became an educated people. It might be in the knowledge of many of them, that if there was any portion of the United Kingdom were crime was carried on to a greater extent than another it was on the borders of Scot land, where thieving was considered as a good pursuit, but when education was introduced, they gradually sprang from beinc , the most immoral to one of the most orderly portions of the community. "0, but," it would be said, " they have a religious education." He would tell them lie never saw a Bible in the school, and in the school were his children were educated not a Bible was seen till within a very recent period, and he was quite sure that any one there sending his children to learn any branch of secular education, would deem it un wise that that the child he educated in any branch of religion. Religion was better taught at the fireside, even in the hum- blesi cottage, and the Bible was more reverenced by being read at home than by being read as a class book. With re gard to the other statistics, it was well 'known that where the carcase was there the crows would be. Where there was a large amount of property there the pickers and stealers would be. But in agricultural districts, where there was not the same temptation to crime there had been less cri minality. But they ought to recollect that the great mass of criminals committed to their gaols were unable to read or write. After hoping that what Ile had said with regard to individuals might not be taken in the wrong spirit, Mr. Aikin concluded by saying that he was quite of opinion that a secular education, without any portion of religious in struction but what the parents or religious teachers might give, was all that was necessary, but as Mr. Turner's amend. meat was more likely to be carried he would vote for that (Renewed cries of " vote, vote Mclennan EVANS rose to speak, but looking to Mr - e said he would wait till be had done if be chose, liodgsor., Mr. Hopes le would s; id say with r that coon, useless. He would put it to gentlemen whether they would take the responsibility on themselves of refusing a mere secular education, because the party demanding it, and who had a right to demand it, would not also accept their religi ous education with it? He would ask whether gentlemen would take the awful responsibility on themselves of refusing any knowledge because it will be accepted by itself alone ? They had heard a great deal about results and consequences, and he would say that every gentleman who would answer him in the affirmative would feel himself responsible for all the ignorance and immorality, and for the mental destitution of all those .children, whom they, in that manner, ejected from the schools. He had on former occasions observed, and had heard it repeated with some satisfaction by Mr. Turner, that they were not an ecclesiastical assem bly : they were lay trustees with lay funds, for lay pur poses. (Hear, hear.) They bad no right to arrogate to themselves those rights and privileges that would belong to an ecclesiastical meeting, who were dealing with ecclesiastical funds, and, therefore, might make what regulations they pleased, however exclusive they were in their effects. He had heard it said, that in the population of Liverpool, the proportion of the Catholics was 1-6th, but he believed it was nearer 1-4th ; now if they were to go by that on the aggregate he maintained, that they were the great majority of the hum ble, and in their right as poor was their right to education. Neither they nor he would have a right to go into the poor house to get lodging, food, or raiment, nor could they send their children to the Corporation Schools to get gratuitous education. No, they should not show that little which the Irish could pre-eminently show the Corporation Schools above any other part of the population. It was in their po verty that their right existed, and, therefore, it was in vain to act by statistical accounts. Catholics had a right to educa tion as the pauper had a right to the poor rates. To deny the Catholics their fair proportion of education was trying to introduce a species of penal law. It was nearly in bis own time, and he was not sure whether it was not since he himself was brought into the world, that Ca tholics were not allowed to hold land, and that if any others could give information of a certain kind, they could disinherit them ; and that if a Catholic was on horseback, he might he dismounted, and the horse was taken by any one who ob served him. He was alluding to what had existed, but the Legislature had been gradually doing away with it ; but in taking away their public rights, they were actually inflicting penal laws on their persons. Mr. Bushell had said that this subject was made as valuable as possible in the different wards, in order to put down the Liberal party. Amongst other methods for this purpose, one was to go round and in trigue amongst the population to keep away the Protestants as much as possible from the Corporation schools. And now as the cry had answered their purpose, he hoped they would not pursue a wicked policy. A number of Conserva tives, and a number of the Conservative leaders he knew to be with them on that question, hut they declared that they were party-ridden, newspaper-ridden, and priest-ridden. (Hear, hear.) That was the reason they preferred the in terest and furtherance of their party to obeying the dictates of their own conscience. (Name, name.) Mr. PARKER.—I call on you to name them ; and if you do not, I say your statement is false. (Hear, hear, and much confusion.)__ . _ Mr. Alderman - EVANS never heard the word false applied to him unmoved, and he must ask the gentleman to withdraw that word. He never used such words himself. The word erroneous was not so offensive, and he called on him to re tract the word false. (Hear, hear.) Mr. PARKER. was very willing to place the word erroneous for false, but to give up the point he would not. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr. Alderman EVANS would beg of the gentlemen to whom he had alluded to be content with having got into their hands all the power they had. It was unwise for the Con servative leaders now to follow the tail which, as many had hinted, appeared to govern the Conservative party, as the tail governed the head of the fish. (Laughter. and cries of " Vote, vote.") As they had been kept there against their will, and has he had heard a great many other speeches, he would take his time. The same arrange ment had existed for six years, and the system had worked uncommon well. What were the risks the children of the Protestants underwent under the present system? They had been in collision, and yet they had heard of no conversions, nor did he believe there was one of the children troubled their head about the matter. They had lasird of the collegi ate and of the church schools, and of the rights of the domi nant constituency to do what they liked with education. He denied that anything of the sort existed. The collegiate and the other institutions were under the obligation of obeying the laws. There was nothing in the municipal law that left anything in doubt as to the equality of all orders in the coun try. In enacting measures which would exclude the Catholic children, they became in degree without using arms or wea pons, and did their work exactly in the same way as the Mahometans and Arabs. They endeavoured to entrap on the one hand, and to proselytise on the other. With regard to conciliating the clergy, he believed they were conciliated when the liberals were defeated. (Hear.) Mr. Lawrence had said that the Catholics were opposed to all education. Was that a proper assertion in Liverpool ? 'Were there not several Catholic schools? and he had heard that Si:. Domingo had been purchased fora seminary for the higher orders. It was the Catholics who led the way in education. (Cries of "no." ) They had heard it asserted that they were disparaging the Protestant religion ; but he did not think that they were serv ing it whenever thy attempted to support it by what he must call erroneous evidence or reasoning. In Prussia and Switzerland there were a great many Catholics ; and how did they do there? Were they not recognized in every way on an equality ? Every way to the throne was open to them ; and was not the schooling carried on as it was here? As to Spain; they had heard of. Spain, but if they looked to Wirtem berg, Bavaria, and Belgium, it was, after all, one of the best inhabited countries in the world ; a most industrious people— a people probably of more local wealth, in the same surface, than was to be found in the whole of Europe. And now be would come home to Ireland; and the outrages which had occurred there had been attributed to the prevalence of the Catholic religion. That argued a very slight knowledge of anything but mere figure statistics, in any gentleman to adduce Ireland as an example of evils, being conciliated by any one particular religion. The evils of Ireland ‘ consisted in a vicious distribution of the wealth of that country, where 19 out of 20 were reduced to beggaary by the laws of primogeniture, an absentee aristocracy, ar a dominant and rapacious church, one of whose late archbishops, the Archbishop of Armagh, one of the Beresford family, lately left £500,000. Exist ence in such a country was a great misfortune : nineteen out of twenty were uninterested in the laws, and knew not how to live from day to day. It was quite absurd to account for these circumstances other than by the destitution of the people. He would not trouble them any longer than to state, that if they were wanting to conciliate any party, they were doing it at a tremendous expense of morality and justice. Mi. SANDS.—It is somewhat amusing to hear gentlemen on the other side affect surprise at the course we are intend ing to pursue—great surprise that we are about to carry out the very principles which we have all along advocated. From the first we have opposed the Roman Catholic system of edu cation, which they introduced—and the town has opposed it, and the town will oppose it. The town will assert its right to have the schools conducted upon Protestant principles; and if we (the conservatives) refuse to carry out these prin ciples, it will turn us out, as it has done the opposite party. As conservatives, we have always laid it down as a principle, that religious instruction should accompany secular education. Well, then, upon what basis will you ground your religious instruction? upon the authorised version of the scriptures, or upon the Douay translation? But it is said that the chil dren of Roman Catholics will leave the school. Why, the came was said twelve months ago, when it was proposed to introduce prayers into the schools;—and what has bee n th e result. Not one, I believe, has left the schools i n conse quence of it; and I hope that the proposed plan of conduct ing the schools will not have the effect predicted by several gentlemen on the opposite side. The Roman Catholics are not so bigoted as many persons are disposed to represent them, and I hope they will continue to avail themselves of the benefits of these schools. I shall support the original motion. Mr. BULLET' supported the amendment and entered at some length into the matter of the letter from the Edu cation Sub-committee to the Ladies' committee ; and he added that the mistress of the north school had written a - letter which had been kept back from some motive or other. Mr. Hooosox explained the part he had taken with re ference to the letter, and requested Mr. G. H. Lawrence to state what had taken place, himself. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCi said that the sub -committee did agree on that letter. There was no doubt of that. They did agree to send the letter; they thought it only an act of courtesy; they expressed a hope that the c h anges th ey were about to propose, would not drive the ladi es ou t o f th e school. That was the position in which it was left. The committee broke up, and when he was in the act of writ ing the letter in his best hand, Mr. Hodgson came in and sa id, very properly, they were taking on themselves to do a great deal more than they ought, and that it would be as well to defer sending the letter until the general cow mittee met, • which would be on the next day. He felt that he was in some difficulty, because his brother committee men might think he was acting with partiality. He listened to Mr.lHodgson, and at last said, the letter should not go. His impression was, that he had carried it away with him, but there were two copies, and he took away the wrong one •, but that letter was never signed by him. Mr. MoLYNEux then replied very briefly, and the coun cil divided on the amendment, when there appeared For the amendment Against it . 32 The amendment was consequently lost. The following gentlemen voted in the division : • For the amendment :—Councillors, Thornhill, Preston, H. Holmes, Mellor, Bolton, Aikin. Bright, Priestley, Yates, Robinson, Smith, G. H. Lawrence, Jordan, Platt, and Mather. Aldermen, !Holt, Bulley, Freme, Evans, Barclay, Earle, Moon, Nicol, and Turner. Against the amendment :—Councillors, Shaw, Shand, Hodgson, Sandbach, Copeland, Edwards, Blundell, Sands, Rae, Aspinall, Toulmin, J. Lawrence, Cooper, Wood, Bir kett, Gladstone, Bushell, Procte r , Lloyd, Rigby, Kilshaw, Parker, Jones, jun., Smith, jun., and Harbord. Aldermen Houghton, Griffith, Chilton, Bramley Moore, Molyneux, Crook, and the Mayor. Mr. RonlNson's' amendment was then seconded by Mr. BRIGHT, and a division took place. The numbers were— For the amendment - Against it The amendment was therefore lost. The following gentlemen voted in the division : For the amendment :—Councillors Thornhill, Preston, Mellor, Bolton, Aikin, B r i g ht, Priestley, Yates, Robinson, Jordan, Platt, and Mather. Aldermen, Bulky, Freme, Bar clay, Earle, and Moon. Against the amendment :--Councillors, Shaw, Shand, Hodgson, Sandbach, Copeland, Edwards, Blundell, Rae, Aspinall, Toultnin, J. Lawrence, Cooper, Wood, Birkett, Gladstone, Bushell, Procter, Lloyd, Ri g by, Kil s h aw , P ar k er, Jones, jun., G. H. Lawrence, Smith, jun., and Harbord. Aldermen Houghton, Nicol, Griffith, Turner, Chilton, Bra.tn ley Moore, Molyneux, Crook, and the Mayor. We believe that Mr. Sands paired off with Mr. Evans. I division was immediately after come to on the ori ion, when there appeared— For the motion Against it The follo . %;ing gentlemen voted in the division For the motion:—Councillors, Shaw, Shand, Hodgson, Sandbacli, Copeland, Edwards, Blundell, Rae. Aspinall, Tool min, Cooper, Wood, Birkett, Gladstone, Bushell, Procter, Lloyds, Rigby, Kilshaw, Parker, Jones, jun., G. H. Law rence, Smith, jun., and Harbord. Aldermen, Houghton, Griffith, Chilton, Brumley Moore, Molyneux, Crook, and the Mayor. Against the motion:—Councillors, Preston, _._ Aikin, Priestley, Yates, J. Lawrence, and Platt ulley, Freme, Barclay, Earle, and Turner. The report of the committee was accordingly adopted, and the council adjourned, at ten minutes to six o'clock, to eleven on Wednesday next, for the despatch of the re maining business. Mellor, Bolton, Aldermen, k SKETCH OF THE DEBATE IN THE COUNCIL UPON THE EDUCATION QUESTION TOWN BY AN EYE-WITNESS OF TUE PROCEEDINGS Upon the opening of the Council Chamber on Wednesday, the coup d' wit presented to us was of rather an imposing cha racter. The attendance of members was very :numerous, and an air of seriousness might have been observed upon the countenances of all, with the exception of a few gentlemen; whom we could particularize , and who, having nothi ng wor- Some half-dozen of the would-be lights of Could see in a glance were " big with speed assembly w The astonish ing Smith—Join, of West Derby—liad a world of porten tous meaning in his looks ; the amiable-looking alderman, who subsequently led the van in the opposing army was full of bustle, as he moved up and down on the recruiting service, seeking for a seconder to his forthcoming amend ment ; and smiling but dangerous, his brother alderman, of Abercromby, whirled round upon his pivot as he conned his notes and a worm-eaten copy of the Mercury ; whilst the enlightened chairman of the Watch Committee and luminary of Scotland Market directed, ever and anon, the two lights which adorn his whitey-brown edition of a mortal counte nance, with a glance of muddled, wondering satisfaction upon the preparations for the approaching fray. We pass over the preliminary portion of the proceedings, —the reading of the various committee reports—which were gone through amidst noise and confusion of a vastly edifying description, a considerable portion of which was the produc tion of Mr. Thornhill, of Scotland Ward, who gabbled across the table, by no means sotto voce, a kind of running accompaniment. The only feature worthy of notice was the opposition offered by the Joseph Hume of the council—Mr. Thomas Bolton—to the appointment of an extra porter in the Town-hall establishment. The present messengers, the liberal ex-mayor observed, were not always busy; and when they were, the cook—his ex-worship seemed to think—might leave her dripping tins to run errands, and the kitchen-maids answer the hall door. Perhaps during his worship's regime such an arrangement might have been sufficiently feasible; and these useful officials performed such extra service with;- out great injury to the victualling department. But "on a cliange" . tout cela," under the new order of things, appeared to be the impression of the most rigid economists in the council ; and the pitiful " tottle of th whole" saving of our municipal " Joseph "—the sum of. 245. a week—was irreco verably lost sight of. By-the-bye, we would recommend to Mr. Bolton a rigid scrutiny into the candle-end and dripping department in the Town-hall during the present mayoralty, which it strikes us may become worthy of notice, as an item of revenue, and ought, upon principle, to go to the borough fund. At length the preliminary skirmishing was at an end. "Now begins the fight!"—was jerked out by one self-com placent member ; and, when the Deputy Town-clerk began to read the proceedings of the Education Committee, a sud den quiet pervaded th hitherto unruly Council, and " The boldest held their breath For a time." There were glances and winks exchanged between friends, and looks of defiance between opponents, as one by one, the resolutions of the committee were enunciated ; more than one honourable gentleman looked up to the ceiling in affected consternation and wonder ; the renowned and immortal Smith, of West Derby, buttoned his coat, and then unbut toned it; W►n. Earle whisked round upon his seat, clutched his notes and his Mercury, " grinned horribly a ghastly smile" at David Hodgson as the author of his woe, and, after a look, which said "you did it," as plain as possible, whisked round again. Francis Jordan threw out his legs, and threw back his head, with a snort, which startled his neighbour, Mr. Priestley ; and Mr. Robinson, of Great George's, fumbled with his hands, unfolded half a sheet of his hieroglyphics, and attempted to read them, whilst his be wildered look told as distinctly as anything so expression less can speak—" I'm going to make a kettle of fish of myself." The confirmation of the proceedings having been moved, with a brief preface, by Mr. Molyneux, and as briefly se conded by Mr. liarbord, Mr. James Aikin rose to read a sermon—and read it well, we admit—which purported to be a memorial from the bur gesses of Castle-street ward, and which he very kindly in formed the council had been got up by certain gentlemen only the day or two days before, upon hearing (of course for the first time) what most people had heard a week or two ago, viz., the nature of the resolution adopted by the educa tion committee. The said memorial—of course again —was signed by the excessively " liberal" gentlemen of the ward— the Walmsleys, Thornhills, et hoc genus omne, not forget ting even the enlightened Mr. Anthony Barnes—overflowed with milk-and-honey expressions of charity towards the poor Popish children, dilated upon the vast advantages of seculir education, and warned the council of the dangerous and un christian (!) course which they were about to pursue. Such, indeed, was the excellence and eloquence of this production, that Mr. Aikin intimated his unwillingness to weaken its ef fect upon the council by any remarks of his own—a determi nation which, for his own sake, we sincerely wish he had faithfully adhered to. Mr. Alderman Turner then rose, amidst a hum of expectation, to propose an amendment. Upon the speech or the manner of Mr. Turner we shall not say much. The former was evidently an effort of memory; apologetic, and almost trimming, but gentlemanly in tone and ex pression. We can conceive such a speech, and the course of action which it held out, to have been dictated by honesty, of purpose ; but we are compelled to doubt the existence of the " moral courage," of which the speaker boasted the possession (and which boast elicited, we will not say, an incredulous " hear" from Mr. Francis Jordan), and are ra ther inclined to fear that it is to the want of that valuable property that we must attribute Mr. Turner's declension from the path of principle upon this question. We have no wish to quarrel with the worthy alderman for the course— happily innoxious save to himself—which he has pursued. We regret it deeply ; and we have mistaken the charactei of Mr. Turner if now, after the experience which this day's de bate must have afforded him of the animus towards institu tions and principles which he venerates, by which the liberal party are actuated in their proceedings upon this question, he does not regret it himself, and is not thoroughly disgusted with the contemplation of a nearer association into which they would so gladly draw him. A brief and hasty discussion then took place upon a ques tion of form, as to the precedence to which Mr. Aikin's mo tion to submit his memorial to the education committee was entitled. Mr. Aikin didn't think that lie had made a direct motion. Mr. Bolton contended that he had merely presented the memorial; but, unfortunately for the correctness of the latter gentleman's memory, it transpired, from a malapropos record (in such cases), which is kept by the town-clerk or his deputy, that a motion had been made, and had even been seconded, and, after being thus formally ushered into life. that Mr. Thomas Bolton had himself stood up to second it a second time ! How zeal does sometimes outrun discretion ! The difficulty was, however, got over; and the redoubta ble John Smith got up, piping hot, to do the honours of a second parent to Mr. Turner's amendment. " Fierce as ten thousand furies, terrible as"—a fishwoman in her cups, or as any other lady who for three long weeks has been " nursing her wrath to keep it warm," looked the. worthy misrepresentative of West Derby. " I rise, Mr. Mayor,"— and his voice rose, and his colour rose, and our own hair rose upon our head, as Mr. John Smith's excited eyes shot round a withering glance, and " notu trerefecit Olympum." " I rise, Mr. Mayor, with great ploure to second the amendment made by Mr. Turner;.' -- 4tar . in doing so I w ill avail myself of the opportu n ity tiolqi'xilyself right in the eyes of the council and the publfielttlarge. with respect to the proposition which I broughtforward on the school ques tion on the 2nd of last month.''t 34ivoluntarily a vision rose up before our eyes, in w hi c h ' mos t prom i nent f i gures were a circle of female dabblers in soap-suds, scrubbing at at the ebony skin of a blackamoor ; and we pitied Mr. John Smith for the mortification which must be the result of his hopeless labour. " Not all the water of the sea will wao, clean this little hand," we remembered, was the lament of Lady Macbeth ; and even a sea of soup-suds, we were con fident, would not purge the blackamoor taint from the name of the councillor for West Derby. We were not permitted, however, to continue in our dreamy state ; for anon the voice of John burst louder and louder upon our ears, " And, volleying like the bolts of heaven, Pealed forth the dread artillery" of his denunciation, right and left, against all who had been busy with his immaculate name and his unsullied consistency. " I hold in my hand, Mr. Mayor," pursued the indignant orator," a document which will put down all my traducers, and prove incontestibly that I, John Smith, am the only con sistent man in the council—a pattern —a paragon—worthy the approbation of all the universe ;" and then he took a paper and shook it, but nothing came out ; and then he walked up to the window, and read—that five years ago he had seconded a proposition, which he asserted was precisely the same as that made in his immortal resolution at the last council meeting—(but which he proved to be as unlike it as a pole cat to a polar bear)—and that all the conservative mem bers who were in the room at the time (and there were only six in the council) had voted with him. And then Mr. John Smith looked very indignant—" tore" many " passions to tatters"—" shook the ears"—and the sides too—" of the groundlings"—and finally sate down like a spent rocket, and looked round, as much as to say, " there's for you!' O h most inimitable John ! " That boy'll be the death ofu t s h .: n The fury of the small Smith having subsided , as of gs frothy and vapid will ever do, the great alder man Aher cromby (great in soul we mean) got up to whip his amiable temper into syllabubs, for the amusement of the connmtln commencing, he took the opportunity of administering a little " soft sawder" and butter to Mr. Alderman Turner, and wished that every conservative in the council were just such a conservative—so gentlemanly, so conciliatory, possessed of the saws " moral courage"—as that geIItICMIU. Having done the amiable, the worthy alderman " went to work" in his peculiar style—talked of the. severe castigation adminis tered front the pulpit by " a haughty divine, a soi-disant fol lower of the apostles," and expressed his opinion that " the gentleman who was reported to have run into the lion's mouth on the occasion, exhibited more courage than wisdom." When called to order for the irrelevance of his remarks, and the personality in which he was indulging, the alderman bounced forth from his state of comparative serenity into his ordinary rabid vein ; snapped in canine fashion at every thing and every body, and inflated his chest and elevated his voice in denouncing some proceeding which he mentioned as " a piece of humbug." Again the honourable gentleman was called to order, upon which he flew voraciously upon an imaginary " wooden bible," for the substance of which he appeared to possess some peculiar affinity, but was repulsed with some damage, we fear, to his teeth ; rambled to a discourse upon grammar spelling and pronounciation, "run amuck" at parsons in general, Irish parsons in particular, and the Rev. Hugh M'Neile in especial, upon whom he poured a volley of most approved billingsgate. Once more his slanderous career was attempted to be stayed, by a request from Mr. Parker that he would confine himself to the expression of his own opi nions instead of inventing opinions for Mr. M'Neile ; but as well might the worthy councillor have attempted to stop up a sewer with a cambric pocket hankerchief as try to close the orifice through which a torrent of blackguardism (we are compelled to use the word) was bubbling, hissing hot from its malevolent source, by any reference to the demands of de cency and manliness. " I have met Mr. M`Neile," shrieked the frenzied alderman, " and compelled him to retire like a coward from the contest " ; and the punch of the council shook his arms, twisted his small person, and grinned with such a hideous glee, that we almost expected to have seen him pull out of his coat pocket the identical squirt with which he had performed this prodigious and boasted feat. Mr. J. B. Moore stepped up to the table in the middle of this disgraceful exhibition of the alderman's infirmity, and remarked, somewhat sternly, that had the object of Mr. Earle's slanderous vituperation " worn a blue coat instead of a black one, he durst not"—(and the spirit of the rabid alderman cowered beneath the rebuke conveyed by the tone and manner of Mr. Moore, as well as by his words)—" he durst not have made the remark which had just escaped his lips ;" and although the rebuked orator still swaggered, and mouthed and spit, like a hunted cat driven into a corner by the growl of some noble animal, whose patience he had goaded into anger,, the tempest of his exhibition was subdued, and he was content to snarl, and grin, and mouthe in a more tem perate vein to the end of the chapter. As a whole, the ex hibition of the alderman at this meeting ought to suggest serious thoughts to his friends, as to the propriety of his be ing at large. We should most assuredly not like to approach too near him in the dog days. By the bye, will he inform us the name of the divine who " preaches to the senses and not to the passions ?" Upon the principle that extremes meet, the lively exhibi tion of Mr.. Earle, was succeeded by the leaden one of Mr. Robinson, of Great George's. how such a gentleman as this, so utterly incapable of understanding the subject upon which he offered himself as a new light, ever found his way into the council, does really surprise us. But we will not waste words upon such a specimen of stolid absurdity. We leave him, with the redoubtable John Smith. to the care of his constituents. Sure, such a pair were never seen So justly formed " to be drisen tandem in Mr. Alderman Earle's drag,—if that gentleman could only keep them from turning too sharp round the corners. We have not space to remark upon the satisfactory speech —we say satisfactGry, because it must have been satisfactory to him to have the opportunity of explanation, which it afforded Aelivered by Mr. Bushell ; or do more than express our rker who followed him, for the manliness o Mr. Pi is brie We st: a word upon the sentiments expressed by Mr. George Hall Laurence, or the vote by which they were followed, much as we depre cate and regret both. We are satisfied that his reverend relative, from whose letters he quoted, and by whose advice he had endeavoured to profit, would not have arrived at the conclusion to which the worthy councillor himself arrived ; but, being driven to the necessity of providing a system of education for the children of his humble fellow townsmen, would have felt himself compelled to base that system upon the religion of the Bible alone. The brief speech of Mr. Moore, though delivered at a late period of the debate, was listened to with attention, and de served being so listened to. Mr. Moore must not, in future, allow his abilities to be cast into the shade. He possesses every qualification for taking a very high place in the Coun cil,. and we trust before long to see him occupying it. But Mr. Yates—surely that gentleman was never de signed for so mundane an occupation as that of a local legis lator. With a little more of the conventicle snuffle, he might occupy and adorn the pulpit of any chapel of which the con gregation were admirers of Socinianism, tricked out with a plentiful adornment of blue flames and brimstone. Mr. Bolton too—but our readers know him and his capa city. We would as soon attempt to sketch the, gable end of a house, or the uninteresting features of a factory chimney, as describe a speech of his. At its conclusion the Council became impatient for the vote, upon which Mr. James Aikin O'Comtelli:ed a little, and threatened to move adjournments until midnight, or the middle of next week ; but contented himself with making a speech, which was not so good as his memorial. Several members subsequently addressed the Council on both sides ; but our sketch has become so lengthy that we must conclude, and in doing so express our satisfac tion with the result, which, although by only 8 votes, is still a satisfactory and even a glorious one for the good cause of conservatism in the " good old town." EDUCATION.—We beg to draw attention to Mr. Middle ton's advertisement inserted elsewhere. His abilities as a teacher, we understand, are undoubted. DANCING.-Mr. Harwood, we perceive, announces une soiree dansante to take place on Wednesday week. These way parties are generally well and fashionably attended. PANORAMA.—A panorama is now exhibiting in Bold street. We have not had time to inspect it, but shall do so in our next. Report speaks highly of it. Numbers of persons are daily visiting it. THE LIVERPOOL CHESS GLOB.—We perceive the mem bers of this club dine together at the Clayton Arms on Saturday, the 15th instant. We are glad to hear that the club is prospering and adding daily to its numbers. The last number of the Gazette contains notices of the dissolution of nine Liverpool firms, some of them of very long standing. CHESTER. RACES.—The entry for the tradesmen's cup has closed within the last few days, there not being less than 64 horses named. The weights will be published on the 14th instant, and acceptances are to be declared on or before ti e Ist of February. ' The weights for the free handicap have ap peared ; there are 241 horses handicapped, and the accept ances for this race are also to be made by the Ist February. `WIGAN INSTITUTION• FOR THE DIFFUSION OF KNOW LEDGE.—The annual tea-party of the members and friends of this institution was held in the large room at the Com mercial-hall, on Monday evening. After tea Mr. Venables, of Liverpool, delivered a lecture on the ancient minstrelsy and national music of England. The lectures were illustrated by the vocal performance of Miss Venables, who sang the grand Italian polacca, " Son Vergin," and several ancient English national airs, in which she was repeatedly applauded by a numerous and highly-respectable audience. In the course of the evening the members of the instumental music class belonging to the institution played a variety of airs. Mr. J. C. Prince, a native of Wigan, and author of " Hours with the Muses," and other pieces, was to have given several appropriate recitations of his own composition, but was un able to attend from indisposition. In the course of yesterday morning, the teller of one of the principal banks in this city was apprehended in his bed on a very grave charge of theft and embezzlement. The amount which is deficient, and chargeable against him we have heard variously estimated a t f rom £5OOO to £12,000. The investigation proceeded during the whole of yesterday, up till a late hour in the evening , and all that i s k n o wn w ith certainty is, that it is one of the most serious cases of bank robbery which has occurred for a lengthened period of time. —Glasgow Mail Wednesday. LORD MELBOURNE.—This nobleman, who visited the castle for the first time since his " retirement" from the pre miership, on Saturday last, left on Tuesday afternoon just before the arrival of Sir Robert Peel. The ex-Premier, during his short visit, only once left the castle, and that was on Monday, when he proceeded to Norfolk Farm to have an hour or two's shooting with His Royal Highness Prince Albert, Colonel Bouverie, and Mr. G. E. Anson. His lord ship, as he passed through the Long Walk, looked as good humoured as ever, but not exactly in his usual spirits. LIBERALITY OF THE QUEEN.—Her majesty has just caused to be presented 41bs of beef, llb of plum-pudding, 2 gallons of potatoes, 21bs of bread, and a quart of ale, to each adult in 100 poor and deserving families of Windsor; and also to each family a sack of coals. To each of the chil dren comprised in each family a moiety of the like pro visions and ale has also been presented. Gifts of precisely the same description, to the same number of families, were likewise caused to be given by his Royal Highness Prince Albert, upon the eve of the new year. Lord Ashburton is expected to arrive at Bath House, Pic cadilly, on Monday next, from his seat, the Grange, Hant s , to make his final arrangements for departing on his impor tant special mission to the Government of the United States. His lordship, we understand, will embark at Portsmouth, on board a government steam frigate, for New York, about Monday, the 2-ith instant, and that he will be attended by a limited suite, as his lordship's stay at Washington, where the personnel of our embassy already consists of Mr. Fox, cousin to Lord Holland, and Mr. James Hudson, ei-levant gentleman usher to the Q •een Dowager, is expected to be brief. The noble lord's lady, before her marriage, was a Miss Bingham, of Philadelphia, and his lordship was at one time proprietor of immense tracts of land in Pennsylvania. Lady Ashburton and the Hon. Misses Baring do not accom pany the noble envoy to America. Miss A. Kemble's present salary at Covent-garden Theatre is 100 guineas per week—a larger sum than there was ever yet statedly paid to any vocalist. Singers have been paid more per night, but never so much per week. Reckoning the expenses of Covent-garden, when Miss A. Kemble plaY , ,z at £2lO per night, which i s b eyon d t h e amount, f rom X l5 " to £l9O profit per night will remain for the lessee. TIIE EXPLOSIO N ON THE B RISTOL AND GLo"E sTER R tendered in Friday, a ft er h ear i ng t h e ev id e nce - in this case, the jury re t urne d a ver di c t o f •'Accdental l iousiv death," with the followi ng r id er : —A n d th e jury ' express their great regret that i n thi s ca se they 1:::it n . deodand, not in n their power to mark their sens e of the grossly Inirropel ma nagement of this line of railway, by levying a which they would have levied to the utmost extent had any.. thing been left to levy it upon. ur THE IEXCHEQUE.II BILLS . — The Ofornin Herald, of .g .- . Wednesday,dly, makes the ameudelron honor a bl e With retence to ' o ur nal, and copied into ting implicated in the our columns, as to severs exchequer bills fraud, and says, :-ihere is no truth whatever in the allegation." TESTIMONIAL TO MR. OASTL En.--; A fund is now rais ing for the purpose of placing /Or. tinder, his w ife, and their adopted daughter in comfortable circumstances. The money is to be vested in the bands of trustees (among whom rnt.r.,—On Monday thea are Lord Fevershatu and Sir G. Sinclair), who are at an election, ppeal of Sir re to decide on the best method of f u lfilling the object. particulars of the ca REFUSAL TO PAY E. Knatchbull against a late conviction for i h t n o e l a t i r h w i i n s h g i :: s i t i t : C : a a i nh a ties t r t b he time. The conviction w refusing to pay to vote it is currently reported, has resolved sc u a ict. The came on for e s o e nt appeared irtmo ed es tablish a line of szteani 'communicatio of South America and New Z übetween the Pacific coast Government , Zealand a co l o nies. The authorities of Pan ama and the A ustra li an v ited an English engineer to suest a line of ra il roa d across , we may add, have i n - rvey t h e I s thmus, and are most desirous executed by an Englishrous that th e li ne s h ou ld b e pared to grant exclusive company, to whi c h t h ey are pre- Some days ag o a Woodman, named Michel, while employed was assailed by 3'. nar Courbons, in the Haute So a. wolfne , would have killed hi , w h ich tore him in several places, and Huot, come to his him bad not another woodman, named with S ome relief, and sacred the animal away. Hav ing,his companions w other men, placed Michel in bafety, Huot and him, Having __ went to hunt up the wolf, resolved to destroy Jollivet, one of fdtiscovered him, a terrible conflict ensued ; the arm and le men, was severely wounded and bitten in body. The beast was diverted from him by the assaults of the wife of one of til other men, and in his rage sprang upon the and a was n tearing her with teeth and claws, when the husband , e, of unusual strength , creature by the ears, turned ina it on its back, and there held it until his companions killed it with their hatchets.