The Sun. — London, England, 1840-05-06 00:00:00

1-4 n EN ENG EDITION. MIL CRAVEN BERKELEY AND AIR. FITZROY KELLY. No. 1. 9, Mansfield -street, Monday, May 4, 1840. Si•,—On my return to London this morning, my.at vention was directed to Si paragraph in the Cheltenham Journal of Monday last, in which the Paving Commis sioners of that town have published an opinion purporting to be signed by you, in which, with reference to the late proceedings of the Quarter Sessions at Gloucester, the following observations appear :—" But as the Act giv es no appeal, except to the Quarter Sessions in the county of Gloucester, and as a majority of that Court, as lately oonstituted, whether erring from corruption or ignorance, has quashed one good rate,' &c. &c. Now, as I was one of the Magistrates who voted in the conscientious discharge of my duty for quashing that rate, and you have ventured to assert that we did so either from " corrup tion" or "ignorance"—the latter, as regards myself, you are fully at liberty to dilate upon as much as you please—l call upon you, if the repert alluded to be correct, to retract the charge of corrupti on as a ppl y i ng to me . Lord William Lennox will deliver this note into your hands, to whom I have now confided the entire matter. I am your obedient servant, (Signed) CRAVEN F. BERKELEY. To Fitzroy Kelly, Esq., M. P., &c. &c. No. 11. Carlton Club, 4th May, 1340, 10 P. M. Ste—l beg to acknowledge the receipt of your letter through Lord William Lcxmox this morning. As to anything which may have appeared under my same in a newspaper, I have to observe that I am no party to the ritblieation of which you complain. I have, indeed, lately written my opinion as Counsel upon a case laid before me. In doing so, Ihad no intention to cast any personal imputation upon yourself or upon any other individual, I merely advised those who consulted me to the best of my judgment and ability. I cannot, without compromising the profession to which I have the honour to belong, admit myself to be accountable Cr any opinion which I have faithfully and fairly delivered as counsel to a client consulting me, without any other et4hosity or intention than that it should be used by the client as a guide to him in the matter upon which he re quired my advice. I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obedient humble servant, FITZROY KELLY. The Hon. Craven F. Berkeley. I have placed this in the hands of my friend Colonel Johnstone, of the Guards, to be delivered to Lord William Lennoc. No. 111. Pall Mall, 10 o'clock. A. M., May sth, IS4O. DRAY( SIR,—I beg to acknowledge the receipt of the letter waich you left last night at my h3use, on behalf of Mr. Fitzroy Kelly, from which, if I understand it rightly, Mr. Kelly distinctly denies the slightest intention of im puting corrupt motives to my friend Mr. Craven Berke ley, with respect to any decision he may have come to in the discharge of his duty as a Magistrate, upon the occa sion referred to. I beg you will inform me whether I am correct in this view of the case, as, under those circumstances, I need trouble you no longer. I am, dear Sir, your's truly, (Signed) W. P. LENNOX. To Lieut.-Colonel Johnston, Grenadier Guards, &c. No. IV. Dasa Lcao In reply to your note just delivered to me; I beg- to say you have correctly inter_ prated Mr. Fitzroy Kelly's letter, wherein he states that while giving- a professional opinion, he had no intention of casting any imputation upon Mr. Craven Berkeley, or upon any other mdividual.—l remain, dear Lord William, Your's truly, W. F. JOHNSTONE. 6, Green-street, Jlay 5, 1340, 12 noon. Lord W. Lennox. No. V. 28, Pall Mall, May o, 1540, 'oefore 1, P. M. DEA4 Sttt,.l bog to acknowledge the receipt of your note of this morning's late, the content 3 of which are perfectly sat .- dartcry. I hare, agrecabie to my intimation of last crenint;, forwarded the col re;ponder,ce to the newt p:Ters. I remain, dear Sir, your's truly, W. P. LENNOX. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS (Fro:n the Globe.) Lord Stanbopo intends to assure her Majesty (in the terms of his vrovesed motion) that, " if any additional powers he felt necessary for the purpose rof preventing British subjects bringing- opium to China] this House will cordially concer in granting them." It is very satisfactory 4o , know this beforehand, because the " additional powers" aecoqsary for as effectiv, blockade against smuggling along. th e whole coasts of China may be something con siderable ! It is also something new for a Sovereign to be petit oned to prevent smuggling, not into her own tarrito rie., hut into those of a foreign stiite,—a state which, to com pensate for its inability to prevent smuggling by legitimate means.(atter having cncouruged it for a long series of years, tilt a taste has grown up amongstits people determined on gratification), has already taken the law into its own hands :agyinst our whole nation, intuited her representatives, in jured her subjects, threatened their lives, and wantonly destroyed their property. It is evident that the wise folks, who follow the lead of so wise a lord, are resolved to con firm Commissioner Lin and his celestial master in their . presant impressions of the perfect impunity with which :they may heap ill-usage on Englishmen. Do these Wise acre. imagine that our trade would be placed in static quo, ivy submittiug• to insult, and forbearing to seek reparation for ifijury (From the Standard.) The debile upon the s.Tond reiding of the Irish Municipal Bill in floe Hoace of Lords is, we tru;t, ominous of the failure of that iniquitous and most dan ,geraus measure. Notwithstanding- the decline of the :minorities is the other House, a fact of which the supporters of the Bill male good use, and for which the absentees and the recent converts will, •we suppose, receive corresponding acknowledgments from the Protestants of the United Kingdom—not withstanding this unpromising indication, it is quite clear that the House of Lords is less favourably disposed than ever to the Bill. This 1; wkat we anticipated all along, from the justice yid good sense of their Lordships. The measure is unjust and dangeFous in principle.. and the more thoroughly it is canvassed, the m - ire glaring do its injustice and hazard appear. Other cause.: have, however, co-ope 'rated to reinforce the. effect of a mik , re perfect understand ing of the subject. The continued and more embittered war against the Chu-ch proves that .nothing less than the subversion of the Protestant Establishment will satisfy the Romanist party numerically predominant in Ireland; aor will that satisfy them without a dismemberment of the United Kingdom ; while the working cf th 2 New Poor law demonstrates that whatever of power be placed in the Sands of this numerically predominant newly will be steadily directed against the Church, and the integrity of the empi re . M r . O'C onnel l , also, has wasted repeal thwider ; the fear of which has had too much 'epon cautious politicians. - (From the Courier.) It has lately been- asserted, that the newest stroke of rtn piadence in the opposition to Lord Stanley's Registration Bill is the assumption that it must be a bill for the disfrom ohisement of the Irish constituency. This pieco of impudence is not new ; it appeared at the first aggr meeting., which was called almost immediately after the announcement cf the nature of the intonde d reform. Though novelty may not be one of its charac teristics, it possessed of one which hat long distin guiahed the oft -repeated lie—it obtains build from tilt inventor himself. This is, however, of no particular im portance. We deny that any disfranchisement is attempted. Every man who has a legal right to vote for the return of is Member to Parliament will be :n stutu quo ; but perso as who have ceased to hold the possessions which gave the al the qualification to vote, and the fraudulent personatora c deceased electors, will no longer have the facilities of prac- • tisinr , the deceptiOns which are indispensable to the Li- berare, and which require the commission of exormous per- • jury. LA W IN TELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORDS, Mir 5, The House sat to-day to bear appeals. The Peers pre sent were the, Lord Chancellor, Lord 'Wenlock, and Lord Poltitaore. V. Rime. nowitrt Mr. K. BRUCE replied this morning. in this appeal, the the arguments in which have already occupied their Lord— ships four days. As wo gave a short outline of the case When it was opened previous to the Easter recess, it is unnecealary to repeat it. The Loo CZIANCELLOIt. at the conclusion of the argu ments, postponed giving judgment till Thursday. • VISCOUNT MAITLAND V. HORNE. This ease came before their Lordships upon appeal from tho decision of the Court of Session. The question in the ease w as whether certain lands which bad come into the pos sioo of the respondent under a deed executed in 1715, were or not subject to certain minister's dues. Tne a tuents rcpt having concluded at 4 o ' c l ock, the further consideration of tlsc case was postponed to Thursday. COURT OF EXCHEQUER, .114, STEWART V. GRIMSTONE. Mr. BAILEY appeared to show cause against a rule to set aside a nonsuit directed in this case by the Under- Sheriff for the county of Middlesex, which was obtained by Mr. Mansell. The plaintiff was the proprietor of a publication called the " Monthly Miscellany. His agent called upon the defendant, who was the maker of the celebrated " Eye Snuff" *hich bears his name, and solicited that his adver tisements might appear in the " Miscellany." The order Iva.: given, and th e advertisements appeared, but, in place of being placed upon the wrapper, they appeared on the inside, and the defendant refused t the by the pl a i nt i ff . On the trial, it a o pav ppeared charge made from whi c h the " ee" that tho bl oc k yof th e was pri n t e d remained in the custody printe r of tilt,' plaintiff, and that tphieorirtiiiiinal order had been given into the custody of the but it was not produced at the trial. had to j r), Under-Sheriff thought there was nothing vceir,iienhteinied and nonsuited the plaintiff. He (Mr. 13. b) that it was for the plaintiff to make out hit case could not do without producing the original order. ff Ir. Baron PARKE—It is quite clear that the Under tijopgoon to':haial•uetnh.te' Sheriff has taken a wrong view of the case. Te fact o f -..thd block being furnish e d b y t h e defendant, and remaining is the hands of the plaintiff's printer, and the further fact of the defendant's admission that an order had been given, only the advertisements had a pp eare d i n the wrong place, were evidence to go to the jury —it was their provinca to decide what the contract was between the parties. The rule fora new trial must be made absolute. The remainder of the day was occupied with the case of Hunter v. Parker, in which the Court took time to con sider their judgment. PRICES OF CANAL,DOCK,ASSUR ANCE COMPANY SHARES &c. &c. &t. LONDON, TUESDAY, MAY 5 Number Dividend Price o per CANALS. Der Shzres. Annum Paid. Snare 1 ,766 7 per cent. Ashton and Old harn..Avcrage97/. 1 Bs.sh. IEO x,05241. Ashby....e.le-Ze...h ......Ararage 1131.313. 72 1,260 Basingstoke lool.sh. 5 1,005 5!. Brecknock and Abcrgavenny l5O/. sl. - 8,0001.16 th .91 65. Birmingham, 1-16th share 8;1. & 711. 219 4 000 ...... Ditto and Liverpool J i! eh. 100 pd 26 600 31. Bridgewater and Taunton .1001. sh,. sil.h. 101 I s pd 400 4/. Chelmer and Blackwater -01 500 411. Caventry 1001. sh. Liio 4,545 Croydon Average 311.25.10 d. 2,060; 41.105. Dudley ... 1001. sh. 99 000 131. Derby 1001. sh . r-8 10,000 4 per cent. Danube and Mayne 411.135. 4d .pd CR 3,5754 41. Ellesmere and Chester...Avertge 1331.5 h. 83 231 621. Erewash 1001. in. 9.( :0 1,297 30/. Forth and Clyde ....Average 4401.165. eh. 615 ~600 10 Grand Junc t i o n 1001. sh 149 1,8491 11. Grand Union 1001.5 h, 24 11,500 ......... Grand Surrey •.. ... ~„ 1001 4 h, 24 0,0001 41. percent . Ditto (optional) Loan lOOl. 63 3,096 Grand Western 1001. sh. allpd 12 600 131.125. iild. Glamorganshire, Aver. cost 1721.135.4 d, 2col 749 10s. Grantham ... 1501.5 h. 203 6,238 21. Os, Huddersfield Average 57/. 65.6 d. sh. 35 100 Kensington 100 sh. all pd. 10 5.32 0 3 11. ss. Kennet and Avon, Aver. 391, ids. 10d. sh. 26 2,897 f SC/. Leeds and Liverpool 1001. oh. 750 5454 1511. Leicester - 1401. sh. 205 1,897 51. 10s. Leicester an 4 NortisamptonAver 131.105. 81 2.400 101. Monmouthshire 1001. sh. 1 9 150 101. Melton Mowbray 1061.5 h, 200 500 251. Mersey and Irwell 1001. sh. 565 3.000 11. 10s. Macclesfield 1001. sh. all pd, 46 247 171. Neath .. 100/.sh. 325 2,480 41, Peak Forest Avei.ge about 78/. sh. 91 1,418 12s. Regent's (or London) Av. 33/. 161. Bd. sh. 12 5,669 6/. percent. Bochdale Average isl.sh. 951 500 8/. Shropshire...... .................. ........1251.0. 138 SOO 91. 106. Somerset Coal 1501.5 h. 150 3,800/. 4} per cent Ditto Lock Fund Stock 121.105. sh. 11 700 401. Stafford and Worcester l4O/.sh. 675 500 IN. Shrewsbury 125/. sh, 2801 SOO 91. Stourbridge ....., 1451. sh. 396 3 . 647 2/. Os. Stratford-on-Avon Average 791. 9s. 96. sh. 44 , 533 161. Swansea 1001. sh, 265 3,762 11. 15.. Severn and Wve and Railway Av 351. eh. 42 1.600158. 32/. 105. Trent and Mersey, 1 share 1001. sh. COO 8,14.9 .161.. ..... Thames a nd M e d way Aver.l9l. ss. 80. sh, 2 I,ooos h. 3 . ii.0004,h . Warwick and B ; rmiegham ... 1001.5 n. 263 940 151. Warwick and 'map, lool.sh, 193 6,000 1/.05. Worcestu and Birmingham Av.7B/.81. sh. 614 5.000 255, Wilts and Berke Average 671. 103. Sd. sh. 981 SOO 6s. IN frier and I .7.'ssington NM sh, '74 .26 . Wisoeacn lO5/. sh. MI 905 li, Wey and Arun llOl. h. :h.")} DOCKS. 2,600 & 1,0650h. } 3p. c. Commerc al „,„1001.sh,ea East and West India 3,238,3101/. 00s. p.ct. London Ditto hoods lOl 2,:200 81. 61. sd. Bristol 68,324/. 5!. per cent. Ditto Notes, various amounts lO3 1,352,752 5 percent. St. Katharine Stock 101 500,000 41 per cent. Ditto Bonds . 200.000 4 per cent. Ditto Bonds tor 1U years ICO 2,500 ..... Deptford I'ier BRIDGES. 2,000 3110 s Albion 5001. sh. 50/. pd 73 50, „inn ,,,,,, E 6 a p n e ( r i cent. A l lianceßritisn &Foreign 100/. sh. 1 :1. pd 14; 50,000 6 per cent. Ditto, Marine 1011/. sh. Si'. pd 5-4 24,000 11. per sh. Atlas 501. sh. M. pd 153 1,200 Ph. 5!. Birmingham 1: ire ...........:501. sh. 531. pd 1071 20,000 41. percent. British Fire •'5Ol. sh. 511/. pd • 40 12,000 61 per cent. trltish Commercial 5O/. sk. 3/. pd 54 5,000 51. per cent. Clerical & Medi,.r 1 Lite, ICO/ sh. 21103 pd 41 4,000 2/ 15$ County 100/. oh. )111. pd 4e 20,600 ss. Eagle 2 ,•„ 0 f a sr i r j et t a , l Economic Lite lOOO/.811. 2561. pd 409 2,271 225. percent. European Lit , ' l O/. sh. ail pd 22 50,000 2s. Ditto, N ew 2 O /. sh. 2/. pd 14, 1,000,001/. 61. per ct Globe Stock 123 20,000 5/. Guardian lOO/. sh. 2711 pd 3S 'O,OOO s. 3.:!. Hope 59/. sh. Si. pd 51 2,400 5/. 7s. 6d. Imperial 1. ire 5001. sh. 501. pd 135 7,500 9s. Imperial Lite 100!. sh. 101. pd 10; 13,459 4/. percent. Indemnity Marine..., PIO/. oh. 8/. pd 26 2,020 SI lOs Kent Fire 50/. sh. all pd 52 31. Ditto Life 50/. pd 79 10,000 16s. Law Life 100/.:h. 101. pd 30 5,000 10s, London, Fire 231. oh. 121. 10s. pd 191 3,900 10a. London, Ship •'3l sh. 121. 103. pd 19; 1,000,0013/. ... ..... Minerva Life Ion!. sh. 5110,00111. 30,0 1 10 51. per cent. Palladium Lite 50/. sh. 2/. pd 2! 7s 50,000 4/. per cent. Protector File "01. sh. 21. pd 19s Od 10,0,0 4 per cent. Pr.;te.tant Dissenters ll,O/. sh. U. 'xi 5; 2,500 1/. Provident Lue 00,000 50. Rock Life 201. sh. 1/, pd 7 69,2201 St per cent. Royal F.xchaticie Stock._ 203 0,008 5 per cent Untrersity I.lle lOO/. sh. Si. • e id 51 50,000 4 per cent. United Kingdom Life 100/. sh. 5/. pd 7; JOINT STOCK B A N KM. 25,1100 8 per cent. A gri c. and Cum. of Ireland 25!. sh. 10/. pd 5,000 ...... ... Australasia 4O/. sh. 40/. pd 574 10,006 10 percent. Bank of Biimin;ham 5O/. eh. 101. pd 131 10,000 IQ per cent. Birmingham Bank 50/. sh. In/. pd 234 31,000 0 per cent. London and Westminsterloo/ sh. 251, pil 231 60,000 51. London Joint Stock 50/. sh. 101. pd 121 .1,000 4 per cent. Lancaster 100/. oh. 20/. pd 30 25,000 .... ..... Liverpool 1001 sh. 10/. pd 211 50,000 ii per cent Manchester and Liver./ 5040. 151 pd 12 pool District 20,000 7 per eta t. Manchester. 100/.sh. 251 pd 27 20,000 Provincial Bank oil Irelandlo9, sh. 25/. p 4 4 4 4 40, ,- 00 National Bank of Ireland 5 0 4 sh 174/. pd 16 10,000 5 per cent. National Provincial Eng. lOC/. oh. 35/. pd 351 10,000 ...... .. Ditto New ... iO,. sh. 10/ pd 10; 10 ; 000 Gloucestershire 5Ol. sh. ltd. pd 30 0,000 10 per cent. Hampshire 50!. sh. 5/. pd 9 GAS LIGHT AND COKE COMPANIES. 2,500 Itis Od Bath 2O/. sh. 101. pd 22 5,000 British 4O/. sh. 16/. pd 21 3,000 c 5/ . .per cent./ nci Bs. Gs. Ditto Provincial 20/. sh. 19 pd 25 928 5/ 10s Birmingham 50/. sh. 93 4,350 2/ Cs Bristol '2;250 3/ Ins Brighton 2Ol. oh. 1 x 1 1 2 3/ lOs Ditto, New 2O/. sh. 181. pd 9 2,471 41 per cent. Brighton Getterai 20/. sh. all pd 9 4,000 Cs& 10s. Continental Consolidated 751. (I'2i/..pd Ito 1,000 101. City of London lOO/. sh. all pd 195 1,000 Cl. Ditto, New 4,100 3/.03. Equital.le ... . 'O/. pd tti 10,000 25 per cant. Imperial 8(10 5/. per cent. Isle of Tnattet 251. sh. 20/. p 4 18 2,350 6/. per cant. Independent 3Ol. sh. all p• 1 50 5,000 4!. per cent. Phoenix 594. oil. 99/. pd 30 1,000 4/. per cent. Ratrliff 100/. sh. sO/. pd 62 4,000 South ,'(etropolitan 5Ol. sh. Ill!. pd 17 9,20)0 4/. per cent. United General 5O/. sh. 401. pd 35 240 5/. per e,rit. Warwick 50/, sh. 50 400 5!. per cent Wakefield 2,000 I. Westminster Chartered 6,000 123. Ditto Sew 780 p o r cent. Yarmouth 20/. sh. 18/. pd WATER WORKS. 4,800 I Birmingham 257. oh. 25/. pd 20 4,434 I. East London lOOl. sh. 104 5,500 I ; Grand Junction Avera,tie Oil. Lls. 441. oh. C 6.1. 2,000 21. Kent 100 sh. 44; 372 Int. Liverpool Bootle 2201. oh. 1:7 1,500 21104 Nrer River London Bridge WatcrA rm..... 'O4 6,480 2/ 10s Manchester and Salford .... ....... lOll/. sh. 57i 4 1,000 4 per cent. South London 100!. sh. 104 8,294 41. West Middlesex Average 631. 12s. Ild. sh. 120 1,360 I/ 14. York Building Co. Lessee Prop 100/. sh. 35 IRON RAILWAYS. n,r,ao Birmingham and Derby 100!. pd 91 9,5'10 Birmingham and Gloucester 15,11110 Bristol and Exeter 100/. sh. 40 pd 161 660 Calcutta and Sau"ur 5O/. oh, 2!. pi 7,500 ... Cheltenham and G. Western 100/. sh. 451. 18 3,009 Clarence lOO/. eh. 100/ pd 351 12,000 8,001 Dublin and Kilkenny 100/. oh. 5!. pi 60,003 Eastern Counties 25/. sh. 21/. pd l 121 Grand Junction lOOl. sh. :OM pd 230 Great North of England 651 pd 56 5,000 ... ...... Great Western mot oh. (151. pd 86} 2,000 Hartlepool lON. ch. 1001. pi 21 8,000 Hull and Selby ...... ...... .... .501. sh. 40/, pd 35; 2,100 3/. per cent. Leeds and Selby 100 id]. 05 1,500 1/.55. Leicester and Swannington .54]/. sh. al! pd 75; 5,100 10 per cent. Livcrpool and Manchesterlo(/.sh. ICU pd 195 10 per cent. Ditto Quarter Shares 36,000 ... ...... London and B r i g ht on 501. sh. 3 " 5 5 / 1. r3 28 6 ! 12,000 Lomlon and Blackwell 5)1. oh. 20/. pd 201 20,000 3 per cant. London and Greenwich 2O/. s•ls, tRIt. pd 51 15,130) London and Birmingham 100/. sh. 004 pd 165 - Ditto Quarter Shares 51 pd `2.61 211,090 .-. ..... London :Ind Sou th ampton Av. 39/, 176.9 d. 5 a 14,0(10 ..... .... London and Croydon Trunk Ist pd 1 9 1 6,000 I.oi Dittot l ManchesterNG Scripe r ‘ a v n a c n l , J i u L n e c e t i i i r ... 1 0 o v o . iL eh. 6 9 ( 5 1 1 / 1 1 . Pj p, p d i : I s 2 4 1 12,000 1:1,000 12,010 „ Ditto Extension 7!. pi 2' North :',li4land 100/. sh. 100/ pd 107 Northern and Eastern 100/. sh. 251. pd 17 2,666 Preston and Wyre 50/ . o h . 30/. pd 3(1 28,000 South Eastern and Dover IS!. pd 5 %on o mi. Per cent. Stockton and Darlington lOO/.sh, 24(14 9 (0) ".. . . Thames H a ven 50/ sh '2! 10s d 0 1,400 ....... .1 "" Westminster and Greenwichlso/. shat!, p pd 0,000 York and North Midl a nd 50 . s h . 5 0 / , pd 70 ...... ..• MINES. 8,000 ...... ... Albion Copper 5/ . sh. 21/. psi 12 4,000 11.55. Alten 15/. sh. 121. Its pd .104 10,000 •••.....• Anglo Mexican, iss. 5/. pm.lool, sh. al 'IA 1 Ditto Subscription 25/. int 2 2,000 lot . l7stanos ...... . ........1501... sh all p . l 38 10,000 11. 101 Brazilian imp. iss. Si. pm.... 351. sh. 20/. pd Ills 44,000 Macauhas & Cocacs United 251.5 h. 2.5/. pd 11,000 000 Ditto St. John Del Rey 20/. sh. 14/ . p d 2 10 , 000 Bolivar Copper Com pany 20/. sh. 2(3!. pd 01 10,0c0 Dub Scrip 101. sh. 104 pd 14 20,000 British Iron 'ol. sh. 50/. pi 503 6,000 British Copper 5!. sh. 411. pd li Cis tst.uica 64/. pd 8: ... ...... _ ii., ..... Candonga ..... 10,000 Is Copiapo ...... ................ ..... idol. bh, 131. pd 10j 500 .. Colombian, iss. 51. pm.... 55/. sh. 55/. pd 3 0 , 550 3/. English 20,000 6,135 Mexican Company 100/. s h. 554/ . p d 4 3,000 Polberou Consols.. lOl. sh. 8/. pd 4 11,5 00 . ...... .. Real del Monte, Unregistered 5 Ditto Loan Notes l5Ol. pd 160 30,000 ......,„ United Mexican, iss. 2 pra. .404 sh. all pd 3 11 DIM. Scrip 4 Ditto New Scrip 5l p.l 6 West Cork 501. s h 504 pd 38* LITERARY INSTITUTIONS. 1,000 London, with Bronze Ticket 75gs. s h. 19 London University 1001. sh. all pd it 1,500 Russell 00 25gs. sh. 7 King' College lOOl. 10 MISCELLANEOUS. 10,009 15,, Australian Agricultural.lo6l. sh. 251. pd 41 6,000 41. per cent. British American Land Company 23/. pd 10 10,000 (IL per cent. Canada Company 100/. sh. 30/. pd 35t 200,000 51, per cent. Upper Cana,:.a Loan 9l' Cit.,' Bonds, 4 par cent lOOl 20,000 11. (is. General Steam Navigation 15/. :h. 14/. pd 25} 101. per cent. HlIdSOTl'2; Bay Stock 254 2,000 1/. London Cutn. Sale Rooms Av. 751. sh, 19 8,000 Caoutchouc Company 12:1/. pd 12 New Brunswick Land Company —5O/ pd 12 2,754 St. per cent. Reversinnary Int. 50c....1001. sh. 100/. pd 134 2,033 5/. per cent. Ditto New lOO/. sh. 100/. pd 117 4 ,G00 . ..... .. Thames Tunnel 5Ol. sh. all pet 10,000 Gs. Van Dimner.'s Land...... 100/. sh. 17j/ pd 121 LIST of SCOTTISH COMPANIES' PRICES, MARCH 30, 1840. ! 4 1, 0r 510 0: 00 004 7 1 .. 6 5 / i . p p .. c c t t : rt ßa r n a k i o o t r ß S s c A ot N l . and . ...S3/. • 8 p. ct. Brcish I,:i c°"" 500 . 0 0 01 . N. p. ct. Commerci al 'en Company...l 001. sh. 411 pd 1:301. li,:tri Scotlandi7;n “ . ***** ... ... ... . 5 .. .2 2 1( 0 5 ' 010/1e111.... sh . :s i h h . : 1 4 50 1 0 00 0 1 11 1 :: p r d l 1 6 f . 1 : 14 ! 5 ) 41 / . Bts :°) :' 11 Ili ... 11561 1. I :11)0 p ' n ,, ...•.•... ccct i ttl N . Glasgo w Nl S V U ael t A en ra '; C COMPANIES. s o h h .. 1 1 0 0 / 1 . 50, 000 sh. 6} P. ct. Scottish Union ... 2O/, sh, 1/. pd 27;5. 0 ,, ,m. 0 sp. ct. Insurance C 0.7 o . i ...... 01 . f . : . ...- .. 1•7 1 -1 7,4 , l 0 6i p. ct. Hercules ...... ( . pd d d 1 1 97:0 /1 . 50 _00t 6p. ct. North British ... —,'n:.,Tl• ch, all pd 9/. : 52. 4000 SP. ct. Caledonian Fire . ... " ," ..... To'" sh ' 101. pd 19/, 5. 000 o p. ct. Edinburgh lAre ..... ro,ooo 2i p. C 'rtes tot' Scotland ............ ti , h h .. a2 i l l p It 347.111 0/. sh. 10/. pd 15,11. ......... ••• LW- Pd //Os 3.II3CELLANEOUS. 4,818 ......... 14in...dal Glas. Un. C;inal,‘,o/. sh, all pd 10 Ditto Allocated 5 , 400 5 per cent. cE,:irirnob., Iron Joint c S e t. . m , c uk:;,Ny'a t .. 72 9 5 4 1 0 5 1 1 / . ... h . a l I Ipi d 44 j1 1 . .• 004Ish II per cent. Shoos Iron Fourliterv.. .... 50/. sh 48/, , d 581 i ' -• • cQpit• Fdinburgh & Leith Gtass.•2o/.sh. 10/. pd 1 toCO ... par - • , cent. Edinburgh Coal Gal . •25/. sh. all 4 IR. 51, '" h a ll .11. .... n thi 5v.1 , ...J -• f Leith Coal (las V/. sh 111 ,d 75' , '7l per COD .. 201.5 h. • l si/ .‘ • Edinburgh ~nd I),:tikeith Liarw.,) , so/ , h . i/• :391• ''. s t l , * o 1 , ( 6 11 7 ( : . ,.,,,t, Glasgow Gm 21 , u ......... • t able 1 ,v, Co ll,in *l5/ sh . .21,, 010 5 nut coot, Eyti • . , y • •Pd y., 11/. M. Manes, Esq.. M.P., has left town in linsequence of a serious accident which has happened to his 1 tither, _R. P. Milnes, Esq., of Freston, a few days ago at Mal. • rn. In ascending the hills there, from the ground ;giving Zr ay, th e pony he was riding fell and caused a fractur e Of tl e thigh. From the last accounts, however, we hope he s going on favourable. 'I who arriv e d i o tow he Ea r l o f S ear b oroua h an d the Ladies Lutn iey last week from Saodbeck, have since jest for a tour on the Continent. 1,600 lee. Hammer/n:HI ......... ...... 501. sh. 1`.21 7,231 Southwark, Old 1,700 11. 158. Ditto, New, ail pi' cent. 5O/. sh. 13 0,000 Waterloo lOO/. sh. NI 5,000 9.48. od. Ditto, Old Annuities 01'81. co/. pd :11 5,000 19s. 3d. Ditto, New Ditto of 71 401. pd 17 10,0001. 51. per cent. Ditto Boucle IN 5,848 17e Vauxhall ...... ...„.Average 701. 10s. 3d. 3h 25 ASSURANCE COMPANIES. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MAY 6, 1840. IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN T. HOUSE OF COMMONS, IIIAY 5. The SPLUCER took the Chair at the usual hour. The Tadcaster arid Hulton-road Bill was read a second time. Sir E. KNATCHBULL brought up the report on the London and Greenwich Railway Bill. Mr. DILLON BROWNE presented petitions from various places in the counties of Galway and Mayo, in fa vour of the Irish Corporations Reform Bill, and the exten sion of the Parliamentary franchise ; and others against the abolition of the Corn-laws, and against the Bill misnamed a Bill for amending the acts for the registration of voters in Ireland. Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented petitions from va rious places in Lincolnshire, in favour of Church Exten sion, and against alteration of the Corn-laws. Mr. SCHOLE FIELD presented petitions from con gregations of Protestant Dissenters in Birmingham, against Church Extension. The Hon. Member presented another petition from the same borough, in which the petitioners stated that they were not adverse to the building of more churches in connexion with the Establishment; but they prayed that no grant of public money for the purpose skould he consented to by the House of Commons. If vo luntary contributions were not sufficient to supply the in creased accommodation necessary, the petitioners thought that the deficiency ought to be made up, by means of a better management of ecclesiastical property. The Hon. Member also presented a number of petitions from Bir mingham, Worcestershire, and Warwickshire, against the civil and criminal jurisdiction of Ecclesiastical Court:, and for the release of John Thorogood. Major BRYAN presented petitions from places in Kil kenny, against the Bill for amendment of the Irish Regis tration. The petitioners deprecated Lord Stanley's Bill as one which would disfranchise the whole of the present Parliamentary constituency in Ireland. Mr. STR OTT presented petitions from Derbyshire against Church Extension. Mr. E A STHOPE presented a petition from Leicester against the employment of climbing boys in sweeping chimneys ; another against Ecclesiastical Courts and Church-rates, and for the release of John Thorogood. The LION. MEMBER presented numerous petitions against Church Extension from East Grinstead, Malden, West Headley, and other places in Sussex; from a Baptist con gregation in Southampton; from Ashby-de-la- Zouche, Lyme Regis, Northampton, and several places in the county of Worcester. The HON. MEMBER also presented similar petitions from Worksworth, several parishes in Suffolk, Heaton, Market Harborough, Pottersfield, and Walsall. Mr. REDINGTON presented petitions from Galway and various parts of Ireland, against Lord Stanley's Re gistration Bill. Mr. VILLIERS presented petitions from Shoreditch, Chiswick, and Fulham, praying for a total nepeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. ROUND presented petitions from various parts of Essex in favour of Church Extension. Mr. BAINES presented petitions against any grant of public money for the Extension of Churches from Be verley, Denham, Gomersall, Northallerton, Stratford upon. Avon, Walsall, and places in Glamorganshire and Salop. Also, a petition from Lancaster, praying for the repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. B. SMITH presented petitions from Dissenting congregations in Sudbury, Norwich, North Wolde and South Wolde, against Church Extension. Mr. LOWTHER presented a petition from the City of York in favour of Church Extension. Mr. GROTE presented 12 petitions from different Wards in the City of London, praying for the total and immediate repeal of the Corn Laws. Sir R. INGLIS presented petitions from St. Mary Abbotts, Kensington ; Iver, Bucks ; Chester, City of Durham, Stafford, Warminster, Ilfracombe., and various other places, in favour of Church Extension. Sir C. COOTE presented a petition froze a place in Queen's County in favour of the Irish Registration Bill. Mr. ELLIOT presented a petition from the county of Roxburgh praying for the repeal of the Corn-laws; also one praying that passengers upon rail-roads or by steam boats alight be made to contribute more to the revenue, and that the duty upon post-horses might be reduced, and one from Kelso and five other places regrettieg the collision between the Civil and Ecclesiastical Courts in Scotland, and in order to prevent such unseemly collisions in future, they prayed that the connection between the Church and State might be dissolved. Mr. NIORRISON presented nine petitions from pa rishes in the county of Suffolk, against any grant of public money for Church Extension. Mr. B YNG presented petitions from the Tower Hamlets and other places suggesting further improvement in the metropolis.—Referred to the Metropolitan Improvement Committee. Also petitions from various parishes in the county of Middlesex, prayng for Church Extension ; and one from the Dissenters of Enfield, against any grant of public money for that purpose. Sir CHARLES STYLE presented petitions from Donegal and Innisfail against Lord Stanley's Irish Re gistration Bill. Mr. A. YATES presented a petition from Carlow pith a similar prayer. Lord CL NIENTS presented twenty petitions from parishes in the county of Leitrim to the same effect ; also one from the Presbyterians of Ballygannon praying that the independence of the Scottish Church might be placed upon a firm and secure basis. Sir E. KNATCHBUL L presented petitions from places in Kent, against the Clergy Reserves Canada Bill, and the Constabulary Bill. Mr. Sergeant .JACKSON presented petitions from the City of Cork, Youghal, Clonakilty, Kinsale, Fermoy, Kanturk, Mallow, Bandon, Charleville, and other places, against any alteration in the Corn-laws, and against the importation of Foreign Flour into Ireland. Also petitions from Cork, Middleton, Fermoy, New Inn, Tipperary, and other places, in favour of the Irish Registration Bill. Mr WA RD presented petitions from Sheffield, agaite Church Extension, and also for a repeal of the Con. laws. Colonel SA LWE Y presented two petitions from Lud low against Church Extension. Mr. PATTISON presented petitions from Clerken well, Southwark, and other districts of the metropolis, praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. L ASCE L LES presented petitions from Wake field, and other places in Yorkshire, in favour of Church Extension. Mr. G. W. WOOD presented a petition from the ma nufacturers of a place iu Lancashire in favour of the Fac tory Bill. Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a petition from Richmond in Surrey, against the rating of stock in trade. Mr. WYNN presented petitions from Montgomery shire, praying for Church extension. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented petitions from Kerry, against Lord Stanley's Irish Registration Bill. Sir C. GREY presented a petition from the Baptist congregation of North Shields, praying for the abolition of Church Rates, and against any grant for Church Extension. Mr. C. BULLER presented a similar petition from the Baptist Congregation at Leeds. Mr. F. MAULE presented a petition from Mr. J. Stewart, complaining of evidence printed by order of the Factory Committee, and praying that the witnesses might be re-examined in his presence. NOTICES OF MOTION. Sir T. FRENIANTLE, on the part of the Hon. Member for Harwich, postponed to this day fortnight his motion respecting the Navigation Laws, and the seizure of a vessel laden with Turkish produce in the port of Glou cester. Mr. NI ACKINNON postponed his motion for a Select Committee on the emigration of Hill Coolies to British Colonies. Mr. KELLY gave notice that on the 14th of May he should move that an humble address be presented to her Majesty praying for the abolition of the punishment of death in all cases except murder. MASTERSHIP IN CHANCERY (IRELAND.) Mr. LEER° Y, seeing the Honourable Secretary for Ireland in his place, wished to ask, the office of Master in the Irish Court of Chancery having been vacant a consi derable time, and great inconvenience thereby occasioned, whether it was the intention of the Government to supply the deficiency. Lord NI ORPETH said he was torry to hear that any inconvenience had resulted from the vacancy not being filled up, of which he had not previously been informed, but no doubt it would be soon supplied, though he was not able at that moment to say when. Mr. C. BULLER said before the Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Molesworth) brought forward his motion on transporta tion, he wished to present a petition from New South Wales, signed by 1,200 persons, praying the House not to come to an immediate decision on the subject, and not to adopt a measure for its abolition without further inquiry. A Message from the Lords brought down certain Bills, TRANSPORTATION. Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTH having presented a petition, numerously signed by the inhabitants of the City of London, praying for the total abolition of the punishment of transportation, said, that in submitting to the House the motion of which lie had given notice on this subject, he was aware that he was undertaking a task, the perform ance of which was both difficult and dangerous, both on account of the great extent of the subject and the nature of the many enactments with which it would interfere. He could assure the House that he had not approached this subject without haying long and carefully studied it, and well weighed every opi nion which had been propsunded on it. The Report of the Committee en Transportation had been laid on the table of the House towards the conclusion of the Session before last. Two reasons had prevented him last year from bringing this subject before the House; first, he had hoped that the Executive Government would have taken up the subject, and have proposed some measure to which he could have given his approval and support, and he did not wish to embarrass the Government by taking up the subject ; and, secondly, as the Report contained much matter reflecting strongly upon the moral character of the colonists, he had been requested to defer bringing forward any motion on the subject, until the colonists should have had an opportunity afforded them for reading the Report, and rebutting its statements ; but now that that opportunity had been afforded them, he could no lon ger hesitate in calling the attention of the House to thesub jcct. The Committee had been appointed for the three-fold purpose of inquiring into the nature of transportation and of punishment, into its moral effects, and into the im provements of which th e ex i st i ng system was susce ptible. lie ssould endeavour to state as briefly as possible the re suit of thi s i nquiry, and he might state that the materials on which the report of the Committee had been founded were of the best description, being composed mainly of offi cial documents. Now,first, as to the nature of the'punishment of transportation, and the condition of the convict under it. Transportation was a compound punishment, composed of banishment from this country—of compulsory labour, and of various punishments by which that labour was en forccd. Our penal colonies were New South \Vales, Van Diemen's Land, Norfolk Island, and the Bermudas. It would not be necessary to refer to the Bermudas, be cauae there the condition of the convicts was similar to that of the hulks. He would confine his observations to the Australian colonies, in which there were 36,000 convicts, of whom only 5,000 were women ; the greater portion of punishment consisted of compulsory labour, some of which was enforced under officers appointed by the Govern ment, but the greater portion of the convicts, to the number of 30,000, were assigned over to indi viduals upon whose temper, character, and position in society therefore their condition must depend, and must be, therefore, variable and uncertain. Some convicts became domestic servants and received wages; others, if they possessed any degree of mechanical skill, were employed in various trades, but the greater portion were employed in agricultural labour. In some families convicts were as well off as the ordinary run of servants ; in other families they were very differently treated, and there they might be considered little better than slaves. For by the law, as it at present existed, the master had the power to punish his servants ; and by the returns that had been made upon the subject, it was perfectly clear that law was not inoperative. For, according to them, is Van Diemen's Land, where the convicts were about 15,000, the amount of summary punishments equalled that number, and the lashes exceeded 50,000. He would not trouble the House with any opinion of his own upon the assigning system, but would refer to the opinions of Sir George Arthur and the Lieutenant-Governor of New South Wales upon that subject, both of whom had most graphically described the effects of that system. The Honourable Baronet then referred to the state ments of Sir G. Arthur to the Colonial Secretary, in which he characterized, in strong terms, the evils and vexations accompanying the employment of convicts. The only other authority ho would mention was that of Sir Francis Forbes, the late Chief Justice of New South Wales, who said it frequently happened that under the assignment system the lesser criminals suffered great seve rity, while the greater criminals got off with compa rative impunity. He could not add anything to those emphatic condemnations of the assignment system, coming, as they did, from persons of the highest authority, and which remained uncontradieted. It had beea stated that the Governm ent i ntended to put SitnetinenTiohne. sin lt ce w re a l s y the duty offender s , an d not to ass i gn trusted of f n e ty e h n ew d oGu t ol o dv e t rp h ne e mr e a e n s y s te i r g et n o m i pn e u n nt t hi sa s ht y them to private and irresponsible individuals.—( Hear, hear.) He bad stated there were two classes of convicts in the penal colonies, the one of convicts in assigned service, the other of convicts under the superintendence of officers of the Government. He would now refer to the latter class, which would be the only one, if the assignment system was abolished. The Government convicts were employed in the public works, in the marine, and on the roads, and in Van Diemen's Land they were appointed constables in the police.—( A laugh.) Bands of convicts were scattered over New South Wales for the purpose of making roads, and they were no better than bands of robbers. He did not make any accusation against the Home or Colonial Go vernment in the management of these convicts, because it was impossible to obtain the requisite amount of official superintendence in the Colonies, and without that official superintendence penal discipline was impossible even in the best constructed Governments. How much more must that be the case, when the Government convicts could hardly be said to be confined in a gaol at all. The difficulty of effecting a proper management in the Co. lonics, was proved by the fact that it was necessary to appoint a police of convicts, and Sir George Arthur de -1 Glared that he found such a police better than any which ' could be formed of freemen in Van Diemen's Land. He wished to draw the attention of the House to the fact that it was intended to do away with the system of assign ment, and to employ the convicts on Government work. That would render the condition of the convicts in the colonies analogous to lab )ur in the hulks at home, with this difference, that it would be vastly more expensive than the best system of prison discipline. That was the opinion of the Commissioners of the Prison Inquiry. The want of superintendence and of all means of preventing crime amongst the convicts in the colonies was attempted to be remedied by terrifying them from crime, and by pu nishing trifling misdemeanours with excessive severity. Corporal punishments were much resorted to-75 lashes were frequently inflicted for very slight offences—indeed, that punishment was a great favourite with the masters, because it did not deprive them of the labour of the con victs to the same extent as chain gangs and solitary con ' fineinent would. Sir George Arthur said that labour in the chain gangs waa a punishment of great severity ; from sun -set to sun-rise the convicts were confined in ox-cara vans, with scarcely room to sit down. From sun-rise to sun -set they work constantly under a military guard and were punished with great severity for light faults. The soldiers employed in guarding chain-gangs were naturally affected in their character by that employ ment. It was found that they were sometimes demoralised by their intercourse with the gang amongst whom they frequently found old friends and relations. There was no doubt that tle military thus employed were demoralised to a great extent, and there were now in the gaol at Syd ney a Lieutenant and twenty-one soldiers for criminal offences. The las: and the greatest of the pul. nishments was that of the penal settlements. The evidence taken on the subject of our penal settle meats disclosed facts which ho could otherwise never have credited. The settlements to which convicts were sent, and that for very trifling offences, were two in number; the one for Norfolk Island, and the other Port Arthur. The number of Convicts in those set tlements amounted to about 2,000, who, with their guardians, constituted the only inhabitants. Sir Francis Forbes, the Chief Justice of Australia, stated that the experience furnished by those settlements had proved that transportation is capable of being carried to such extcntof suffering as to render death desirable, and to induce many prisoners to seek it under its most appalling aspects. The same Learned Judge, in his evidence before a Com mittee, gave the following extraordinary statement : " I have known many cases in which it appeared that con victs had committed crimes which subjected them to execu tion for the mere purpose of being sent up to Sydney, to be tried," and he added, " that he believed those parties contemplated the certainty of execution, and that they de liberately acted from au expectatien of it." In reply to his (Sir W. Molesworth's) Hon. Friend the Member for Liskeard, the same Judge said that if it was his own case ho should not hesitate to prefer death under any form to such a state of endurance as was exhibited in Norfolk Island. In confirmation of these opinions, he ( Sir W. Molesworth) might quote the high autho rity of Sir R. Bourke, who stated that he had es rablished a criminal judicature in Norfolk Island for the purpose of depriving the convicts of being tried in Sydney. It was not to be wondered at that the convicts were driven by desperation to mutiny. In the last mutiny nine convicts were killed, and twenty-nine subsequently condemned to death, of whom eleven were executed. Chief Justice Burton was sent to Norfolk Island to try them, and he had described a strange scene which took place. When the names of those who were to die, and of those who were reprieved were read—the former receiving the news with joy at relief from their sufferings —the latter with mute despair. The extremes of misery and immorality met in Norfolk Island, and rendered it without a parallel in the world, except in Port Arthur, the penal settlement of Van Diemen's Land, of which Sir George Arthur stated that he had known convicts commit murder in order that they might be removed to Hobart Town for trial, though they knew that death would follow in a fortnight ; and in Norfolk Island it had been stated, on the best authority, that three-fourths of the convicts were guilty of unnatural offences. New with regard to the influence of transportation as a punishment. The object of all punishment must be to deter from crime—pcena in paucas ut metus in omnes— but the fact was that the sentence of transportation might paraphrase thus : " You, the culprit, are to be removed from your native land, into one with which you are comparatively unacquainted you are to be separated from your friends for many yoars, perhaps for ever, and compelled labour for the benefit of others." Whereas the two first threats of ba nishment and separation from friends, whatever might have been their effect in former days, had now lost their penal terrors, for this simple reason, that con victs were no longer sent to an unknown and strange land, but to a country inhabited by thousands of their companions in crime, and to which thousands of emigrants were hastening, as to a land of promise. It not unfrequently happened that while a Judge was pass ing sentence of transportation on a convict, in the same town and at the same time, an active agent for emigra tion was praising the soil and climate of the very country to which the convict was to be transported as a punishment—representing the advantages of that country in the most glowing colours, and proffering the means to persons to emigrate to that very country. Could trans portation, then, be considered as a punishment likely to produce terror in the minds of the criminal population ? Last year on the shores of the penal colonies there had been disembarked front this country 5,000 crimi nals, and 10,000 voluntary emigrants. Many of them became servants together in the saline families, and labourers in the same fields, to the confusion of all notions of punish ment, and to the destruction of all ideas of morality. Could there be any greater anomaly in legislation than this? The p ro p er effect of punishment e co s iild only be o b ta i ne d b y t h e amount 0. , apprehn len produced on t h e m i n d s of the criminal popu• lation. Now, the only effect that was likely to be pro. duced on th e m i n d s o f t h e criminal population by the punishment of t ranspor t a ti o n was that which would be produ ce d b y regar d ing it as a life of penal labour and pri va ti ons , b ut w h o c ould tell the amount of that labour a n d o f t h ose privat i ons ? Th e condition of a transported convict was a mere chance, and ranged between every condition from that of a well-treated servant to that of an o pp resse d an d ill. use d slave.—( Hear, hear. ) He believed th a t t h e amount o f pu nishment inflicted on the transported convi c t was grea t er than was generally known or ima g ined in thi s coun t ry . He believed they were many of them subjected to a system of terror; but it was unproductive terror, gratuitous terror, because it was impossible to make th e criminal population of this country understand exactly what was the amount of punishd ment inflicted in the penal colonies. this by the criminal population in the proceeded mo r s ) t .' fortunate in a nd who consequently The c unt accounts recciy generally from those who had been this lottery of punishment, described the country in favourable colours. in the allotment of p u nishment were the more unfortunat e in their c ommun i cat i ons w ith this country , wereinclined, he believed, t o m i sre p resen t their sufferiiigs, p ‘ a v r i t l l i y ch wi h th ad a Even those wh o view o f reveng i ng t h emse l ves on the Ia punished there, by bringing them . into discredit, and partly w i t h a v i ew o f getting companion s in their misfortune; but even if they were fully acquainted with both, the criminal population would only regard transportation as a most unequal be punish ment, as a lott ery i n w hi c h t h ere were manye shouldprizes and many blanks, and, j u d g i ng l from experienc e, of opinion that, lik e a ll gam bl ers , they would be actuated deterred by by the hope o f o b ta i n i ng t he prizes than reason eterretransportation he should n u t by the fear of the bl an k s. F or t h i s hesitate in sayin g that transportation failed as a punishment; independent of the production of terror, which was one of the main objects of punishment, there were other subordi nate objects which punishment ought to eff2et with regard the criminal to commit cr i me during his punishment. to the offender hims e lf. It oug ht to render it difficult for It ought to improve hie morel eheracter, and render crime distasteful to him ; and lastly, it ought, :f possible, to place him ultimately in a position in which he will not be exposed to strong temptations to relax good habits. In every one of these cases transportation had been proved to be totally ineffective. The immense number of summary convictions to which he had referred proved that an enormous amount of crime was committed by convicts while under punish ment. The terrors of Norfolk Island had not prevented convicts from committing crimes that caused them to be sent three or four times. With regard to the reformatory effects of transportation, the Attorney-General of New South Wales had stated that it was quite ineffective, and every person that had been examined, and every document that had been brought before the Committee proved that to be the case. In fact, the convict was placed in a situation where vice was the rule, and virtue the exception. Having dis posed of that part of the case, the next question was, what was the effect of transportation on the moral state of so ciety in penal colonies ? And an answer was afforded to that by the return which had been made, where it was shown that crimes of the worst descrip tion were perpetrated in those colonies.—( Hear, hear.) A greater portion might be attributed to transporta tion, because it was evident that, in communities like those of Australia where there was a great demand for labour, and wages were high, a vast amount of crime could only be attributed to the demoralized character of the population, and not to those economical causes which produced want and misery in intensely popu lated countries. In order to show the amount of crime in the penal colonies, he would refer to the number of sum mary convictions in Van Diemen's Land. In 1834 the community of Van Diemen's Land was very small. Its population did not exceed 40,000, of whom 16,000 were convicts, 1,000 soldiers, and 23,000 free inhabitants. In that year the number of summary convictions amounted to 15,000. The summary convictions in New South Wales were nearly the same in proportion to the population as in Vats Diemen's Land. In order to complete his account of those colonies, it was necessary to refer to the convic tions before the Supreme Court of Quarter Sessions. The House should remember that convicts were not tried before that Court, except for offences for which the penalty of death was provided. In the average of seven years, from 1829 to 1835 inclusive, during which the population of those colonies did not amount to more than 50,000, the number of convictions was as one in a hundred ; the convictions in England were about one in a thousand, and in Scotland one in 1,300. A large proportion of those convictions were for offences of very great magni tude. The number of sentences of death a-year averaged 132, the executions 52, and the number of sentences of transportation 369. In seven years in those two commu nities, whose population did not exceed half of that of Westminster, the number condemned to death was 523, the number executed 362, and the number transported 2,553, without including the convicts summarily trans ported, or who had had their sentences extended. According to Captain Maccoriochie and others crime was on the increase in those communities. In order to give a more accurate notion of the state of crime than mere figures would display, he would read a passage from the Report of the Transportation Committee, in which it was calculated what would be the state of crime in England if it was in the same proportion to the population as in those colonies :—" The number of robberies in New South Wales exceeded the number of crimes of every kind committed in England. The murders were as common as petty larceny in the mother country. In order to give an idea of the amount of crime, let us suppose that the 17,000 offenders of all grades, who were last year convicted in England, were guilty of capital crimes—that of those 7,000 were executed, and the remainder were transported for life. That was precisely the state of crime in the Aus tralian colonies, in proportion to its population as com pared with England." That this statement was not exag gerated they had the unimpeachable authority of Mr. Jus tice Burton, who said that if one could look down upon that community, it would seem as if the main business of the whole population was the commission of crime and its punishment, and as if the whole co lony was in motion towards the Courts of Justice. In a great proportion of crimes committed in New South Wales the authors were not disco vered. This was not to be wondered at, when it was considered that the limits of the colony embraced an area as large as that of England, and that some thousands of shepherds and stockmen were scattered over it, with arms in their hands. Bushranging was one of the most com mon offences—that is to say, runaway convicts, mounted and armed to the teeth, rode up to the doors of the settlers, and committed robbery in the open day, the convict set tlers looking on with indifference. The most atrocious cruelties were often committed. The year before last, in New South Wales, a tribe of natives had been living in the utmost tranquillity. Twelve armed convicts seized thirty of them, and slaughtered them in cold blood. The first jury that tried them refused to convict, though the evidence was unequivocal. But a second jury did not refuse to convict, and they were executed, in spite of every effort to save them: Ie Van Diemen's Land, too, the most avt ful cruelties were committed by the convict shep. herds, who often killed the men to obtain possession of the women among the natives, so that now the aboriginal po pulation was almost exterminated. Though these crimes were so enormous, a moment's reflection on the nature of the materials there to be dealt with, would dissipate all won derment. The number of convicts transported since the es tablishment of the colony, was 100,000, of emigrants 60,000; transportation had also produced a great disproportion of !CRC:4 ; out of 100,000, only 13,000 were women ; and on the last census the proportion of males to women was as 7 or Bto 1. Why had not more women been transported ? The Colonial authorities found it impossible to devise r.ny mode of punishment for the female convicts which was not too severe ; and the conduct of the female convicts was so bad, that they could not be received into respect able houses. Penitentiaries were the only modes of punishment at all suited to women ; but the eolony af. forded no means for the establishment of such institutions. It had been recommended that the female convicts should be by all means encouraged to marry. The difficulties besetting this question made the most valid arguments against the whole system—that if this country continued to send thousands of its worst offenders to those colonies, to become first slaves, and then citizens, they must be accompanied by women, or the most disgusting vices already, it was to be feared, too prevalent, would in crease. Attempts had been made, under the direction of Mr. Marshall, to conduct free Female Emigration. The result might have been anticipated—that the streets of Sydney were crowded by prostitutes. How could it be otherwise ? Would respectable females go alone to a settlement of convicts ?—( Hear, hear.) Parties who were pecuniarly interested in the continuance of transpor tation had endeavoured to deny its bad effects, but they only thus showed their moral insensibility.—( Hear, hear.) The free settler was haunted and surrounded by crime. Convicts in chains were every where seen : his very ser vants were convicts ; the women, at the best, drunken, depraved creatures ; the men, hardened ruffians.—( Hear, hear.) Crimes of the most awful description were often perpetrated in respectable families: in one case, two girls, under fourteen years of age, had, it was discovered, criminal connection with, not one, but all the convicts on their father's establishment, which was an ex tensive one ! These men were hung for rape, and many more might have been, had they been tried. The settlers could not obtain the convicts' labour but by submitting to their vicious propensities, or by using the Magistrates' au thority with the punishment of the lash. This horrible picture of the state of society ix the colony was not more true than disgusting. Slavery always tended to pervert and degrade the character of the master, and most espe cially convict slavery, where none of the softening or molli fying influences could exist, which in other cases might have been observed. What, then, was the benefit of keep ing up such a system ? Did it diminish crime? No ; it did but transport crime to a new and growing settlement, there a hundredfold to increase.__( Hear, hear.) Bad as a punishment, it was still worse as a system of colonization. —( Hear, hear.) Could the present system be at all amended ? He believed not ; and he strongly advised the total abandonment of it. He was sorry that the Noble Lord tho Secretary for the Colonies was not for aLolishing but for modifying the system. The Noble Lord par ticularly recommended the removal of some of the con victs to Norfolk Island. Why, that was liable to all the objections to transportation, and the NoblelLord himself ad mitted it open to the main objection. He trusted the Noble Lord would reconsider this plan. What punish ment was to be inflicted on the convicts in Norfolk Island ? Not the existing system, it was to be hoped, after the descriptions which had been heard.—( llear, hear.) If corporal punishments were to be discontinued, there must be a good gaol system. How were the gaols to be built in Norfolk Island, a small island without harbours except for boats, in the midst of the Southern Ocean, more than a thousand miles from land? The convicts could not be made to erect them without the lash, and free labour could not be obtained but at the highest expense. The cost would far exceed that of building, better gaols in this country rind better penitentiaries.—( Hear, hear.) Prison inspectors, again, had been appointed in this country. Why ? Be cause it had been found that uncontrolled authority could not be relied on, even at home. Could it be more de pended upon abroad ?—( Hear, hear.) Then, had the ne cessity for sending women out with the convicts been con sidered ? To answer all these leading objections all that could be urged was that the island was fertile, It was said by some that the cultivation of the island might he ad vantageously carried on. He utterly disbelieved this, be cause all similar attempts under such circumstances had failed, and because the island was very small ; and more over the expense of provisions there would necessarily be much higher than in England.__( Hear, hear.) Now as to the totally new plan of punishment alluded to in the Noble Lord's speech, the social scheme of making one man responsible for the good conduct of five or six others, it outraged every notion of human nature, and seemed indeed to be a mockery; it was punishing the innocent for the guilty.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would now state what he himself proposed—that offenders should be punished in this country by a good system of gaols and penitentiaries —a system much more effec tual, and much less demoralizing- than that of transporta tion. The system very much advocated lately was the se parate system, which possessed most of the qualities of a ' good punishment, and, especially, was exempt from the disadvantages arising from facilities for depraved associates, and tended rather to moral improvement, making labour, which was permitted, not imposed, an incentive to honest industry in a future career. The main objection to the plan was expense. Now since the establishment of the trans portation system, the cost to this country had been up wards of eight millions, at the rate of near 901. to each individual—( Hear, hear.) The country had no idea of time expense which the system incurred, before the in quiries of the Transportation Committee. The estimates were formed upon the supposition that seven years of transportation were sufficient. He recommeudcd the sepa rate system, in which case the convicts could be kept far more cheaply than in any other way. The convicts would cost twice as much in Ne w South Wales as in England, and four times as much if they we re placed on Norfolk Wand. The cost of the system he proposed would be much less than any that had hitherto been adopted, and it ought, therefore, to be considered. No system of punishmer:` was perfect unless it improved the condition of the of fender, and it had been shown that transportation had not that effect. The Archbishop of Dublin had long been against transportation, and in that Right Rev. Prelate's steps he :amsitsly followed. By the separate system ha thought much good might be done towards the moral elm . racter of the offender, and it might be effected at consi derably less expense than the present system of transporta tion. Ile entreated the House not to be led away by any notion of economical punishment—all attempts that had been made with respect to that had turned out to be in effectual. If they had listened to Mr. Bentham, they might have had the best system in the world of secondary punishments, and they might have been a model for man kind, instead of, as they were now, a disgrace.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It had been said, that if convicts were imprisoned in this country the Home Office would he beset with memorials, which could not be the case when offenders were sent to a great distance. To that he would say that the application for mitigation must be either well founded or not—if it was well founded then great injustice was done to the convict in removing him to such a dis tance, and if the punishment was due, then a Minister of the Crown would fail in his duty if it was not carried out. But if it was said that this power must exist as long as the Home Office had the power to pardon them, he would say that power ought to be curtailed as soon as possible, and given to some judicial party. He would now conclude by saying a few words with respect to the effect of the aboli tion, of transportation on the wealth of the penal colonies. Many persons with most proper feelings would not emigrate to these colonies, because they did not wish to be con founded with felons, and to the honour of the poorer classes he stated that there was a great and growing dis like in them to emigrate to penal colonies, and this feel. ing, through the exertions of the Archbishop of Dublin, was daily increasing in Ireland. The result, therefore, of continuing transportation would be to prevent emigration to penal colonies, and, therefo re , a proport i onate decrease of their wealth. He thanked the House for the patience with which it had heard him; he had passed over a great deal of what lie intended to have said, fearing to trespass on the time of the House ; but he thought he had said enough to prove, first, that transportation was a very bad punishment, that it was not susceptible of any improve ment, and ought to be abolished ; secondly, that the best substitute for it was the penitentiary system ; that that sys tem would not be more expensive than the modification proposed ; that a large additional outlay of public money was not required for it ; and, lastly, that for the sake of the moral well-being and prosperity of the penal colonies, a systematic emigration was required in the manner he had proposed. The Hon. Baronet concluded, amid much cheering, by moving-- 1. That the punishment of transportation should be abolished, and the penitentiary system of punishment be adopted in its stead, as soon as practicable. 2. That the funds to be derived from the sales of waste land in New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land, ought to be anticipated by means of loans on that security, for the purpose of promoting extensive emigration to those colonies. Lord J. RUSSELL—The House, he was sure, would feel deeply indebted to the Hon. Baronet, not only for the exposition of his views upon the subject upon that occasion, but also for the long and continued attention he had given to it; and, in paying that tribute to the ex ertions of the Hon. Baronet, he could not but lament that a subject of so much importance should have attracted so little of the attention of the House.—(Hear, hear.) La menting that want of attention, lie still felt it his duty, without pretending to follow the Hon. Baronet throughout his details, to give to the House the general views which he had been led to adopt upon the subject. With re spect to the practical measures to be adopted, he need not labour much at explanation, for, during the course of last year ho had stated what practical measures ought to be adopted in consequence of the Report of the Commit tee. Seeing the various alterations which had taken place with respect to the punishment of crime in this and other countries, it was necessary to consider what should be the general object with regard to punishment. The first and most important principle was to deter from offences ; and the next in importance, no doubt, was the reformation of offenders. Now, with respect to the first object, to deter from crime, it seemed the obvious course to pur sue, that in order to deter from crime they ought to have the mast severe punishments the most unrelenting punishment for all offences—the most cruel excess of punishment for even slight offences—to carry out that principle to its extent, they must apply the ex treme punishment of death to even trifling offences ; and if the crime of picking of pockets were to be extirpated through the application of the punishment of death to that offence, it would be a question for those taking that view of the question—they might argue very fairly that even that severity ef punishment was justifiable. But the re sult had always been exactly the contrary ; when they at tempted to inflict those severe punishments, they certainly engaged the sympathies of mankind, but it was in favour of the offender—( Hear, hear.) By that means they de feated their own objects; therefore, in that point of view the attempt to deter from crime by extreme severity of punishment, if attempted to be carried out to its full ex tent would utterly fail. Again, there was another party who looked only to the reformation of the offender— those who took only that view of the question of course must attempt to prove it by the cases of particular offen ders. For instance, the manner in which they most con firmed a criminal in his disposition, was by inflicting de grading punishment upon him—by associating him with others who were degraded, and so closing up the paths to affluence and honour, or even to labour. The proposition was made by the Archbishop of Dublin: he said give a criminal—a person convicted of crime—the means of going to a colony, not a penal one—afford him a passage to that free colony, and allow him to make his way with an un stained character, no doubt that individual would be more likely to be a reformed man, rather than if lie had been put in prison, and stigmatized as a convicted felon ; but the question was, whether, in so doing, they would not de feat the general objects they had in view, and promote crime by this extreme lenity and indulgence to those who were guilty of offences. The most likely way to lead to reformation was, to remove men from temptation, and place them in affluence. Many of those now convicted were living in wretchedness, and almost in despair; they were tempted to steal, to break open houses, and commit other crimes; but would not others be tempted to commit crime if they gave every criminal the means of setting up a shop, and enabling him to dispose of so many goods as to keep him above temptation; by so doing would they not tell the community which was virtuous that they would be placed in a disadvantageous position, as compared to those who had been convicted of crime ; they would induce to an increase of crime; they would have a greater num ber of criminals; their means would fail, and they must again revert to severe punishment. As an example of how such a principle would work, he might state that, while at Liverpool some time ago, the Governor of the gaol was lamenting the number of boys who were under his care, and suggested that many of them might be well disposed of by being apprenticed to the sea. It happened that a large shipowner was by him at the time, and he (Lord John Russell) asked him whether there was not a greater number of boys of respectable parents offering themselves than could find employment? His answer was yes; every day they had applications made by the sons of most re spectable parents in Liverpool, who, although in poverty, were unstained by crime. Now, if the criminal boys were to be allowed to obtain a livelihood by such means, they must displace so many of those innocent boys who were anxious for work: they would be starved; an injustice would at once be done, and they would be tempted to crime, which the friends of that principle were most anxi ous to put down. He was convinced that either of those principles carried out to the extreme would defeat itself ; it was only by a prudent or temperate, and a moderate course of considering, from time to time, what was the necessary severity of punishment ; it was only by combining the two principles that they could hope to be successful in their exertions. The Hon. Baronet, along with the Archbishop of Dublin, seemed inclined to go too far with the latter of these principles; but lie would be enabled to show that it would lead to great expense—it would entail great bur lens upon the country, and, in the end, would be very doubtful as a system by which criminals might be reclaimed. With respect to the subject of transportation, he thought the Hon. Baronet, in the previous part of his speech, had confounded the transportation of the present day with what it was some years ago. With regard to assignment, he entirely agreed with th e H on . B aronet. He considered it a pl an of pure slavery ; it was assigning a man to a master, and subjecting him to all the caprice or the horrors of the insane folly of that master ; or, if the master chose to make the convict a favoured servant, he would place him in a situation superior to a steward or a cook in this country ; but if the master chose to dislike him, or if he was of a tyrannical temper, it was subjecting him to all the evils, the punishment, and the coercion of slavery.__( Hear.) He therefore considered assignment as a system which ought not to be continued, nor was that any new opinion of his, for he had stated it, in a letter directed by him to be written on the 15th of April, 1837, before the Transporta tion Committee was appointed. These were his views then—he had not altered them sinca--he quite agreed with the Hon. Baronet that assignment tended to degrade the character both of the master and of the slave. Having that opinion of the evils of assignment, he had to state that or ders had been given during the course of last year which put an end to any fresh assignment, so that now the ques tion assumed a different shape. The question was, whe ther the grea:er part of the persons convicted of serious offences being no longer for the most part brought to ca pital punishment should be punished by imprisonment in the Penitentiary at home, or be conveyed to a distant set tlement, and punished by labour on public works. In that respect he followed the opinions of the Committee on Transportation. Transportation to New South Wales and the, settled parts of Van Diemen's Land should be discontinued.—( Hear, hear, hear.) In the number sent to New South Wales there had been a decrease last year, in consequence of the directions that were given by the Secretaries for the Colonies and Home Depart ments ; those orders had been continued during the pre sent year, and an Order in Council was now in preparation in which transportation to New South Wales was ordered to be discontinued after the Ist of August next. 1 , . was intended that convicts should be sent to the unsettled part of Van Diemen's Land, Tusman's Peninsula, Norfolk Island, and the Bermudas. Coders had been given, ac cording to the spirit of the resolutions of the Committee, by which the convicts would be separated from the settlers in all the places where it could be carried into effect; then came the question whether they should follow the plan re commended by the Committee, or the plan recommended by the Hon. Baronet, for they were essentially different. Sir W. MOL ES WORTH had not agreed with the recommendation of the Committee on that point. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Probably not, but it had been agreed to in the presence and with the concurrence of Sir R. Peel, Lord Howick, Sir G. Grey, Ale. C. Buller, and other persons as well qualified to give an opinion upon such matters as aay Members of that Howe. Ile would now consider what was the difference between the pl an o f t h e H on. B art. an d t h at reco mmended by the C omm i ttee. The plan of the Hon. Bart. was, h i the first pl ace , th at pen i tent i ar i es s h ou ld b e er i e im cn d in is did country on a pl an w hi c h , h e concurre d w ith i i sepir a t e ce ll s dd, , in which for a certain period eachn' was the best plan on w hi c h t h ey cou ld b e cons t r ucted, ani c e , l m y , , ic o t f should undersso his punishment. The to plan w altered by thewith re Government transportation. a s 1 'ral ' In the first place, the number of convicts sent abroad was EVENING EDITION.„.. much siteiheisigei. The greater number sentenced for sliort periods were confined at home, a large number were sent to Bermuda, who returned home, but a larger number were sent to that place which no doubt afforded great facility for settling afterwards in Van Diemen's Land, and afforded a temptation to them not to return to this country. Now referring to what he had first stated, he begged to say he thought it quite necessary in the first place to adopt some punishment which should have the effect of deterring from crime. He thought transportation, as hitherto prac tised, deficient in this respect. It was so stated by those who defended the system, by Sir G. Arthur and others, and that with respect to any person of skill and talent, whatever might have been his offence, in consequence of his abilities he became at once a favourite servant or con fidential clerk. Now they proposed, on the contrary, to adopt a plan of confinement in a penitentiary, or hard labour at the public works—that the person convicted, whoever he might b e , s h ou ld un d ergo a fi xe d p e riod of punishment, whi c h h e t h oug h t a b so l ute l y necessar y, par ticularly for such skilful criminals, whom he was sorry to see attracted more sympathy than any o th e rs. From his oflieial eeperience at th e H ome Office he knew there was always a greater interest about such persons, when they bad committed crimes, tha n a b ou t men of a lower sphere. opinion was, that if crimes were to be punished these ought to be specially punish e d— t h at persons of education who com mitted crimes were more proper subjects of punishments than those whose i gnorance m i g h t a ff ord some pa lliation of their guilt, and that a mistaken principle was acted upon in this respect in New South Wales, for these persons re ceived all the favours and rewards, and the ignorant, wh ° had received no moral or religious education, all the seve rities. He therefore proposed for all offenders that a Ce r : tarn portion of severe punishment should be inflicted , ht!' after that let them consider the position in which the cri minal was to be left. He thought they ought to consider two objects, carrying neither to excess, but at the sa me time keeping both in vi ew; t h erefore he said and maintain ed with respect to all persons who had received a sentence of the Judges in consequence of guilt, they should carry into effect a certain d egree o f punishment, an d a f te r that ... consider what treatm e nt wou ld b e most likely to save the of fenders in future f rom a recurrence of guilt. It was our t duty, if we possibly cou ld, w i t h out surrender i ng an y grey interests of society, t o g i ve t h e cr i m i nal an opportun ity 1 reforming himself, an d atten di ng to those obligations which ' he had so long neglected. Then if they discharged those men from a penitentiary, they went into 06° , 3' which was alre a dy f u ll o f persons seeking employm ent, so full that parsons of good character were not able to obtain it. If th e y p oure d i nto such a society men with stains upon thei r c h aractor— i f they placed 601 at the same time i n th e m id st o f those same temptations which originally led th em i nto cr i me, there was cer tain ly great probability that, i n t h e fi rst place, they wou ld P t driven to the same cou r s e o f cr i me, for want of hea the employment ; and, next, th a t th ey would be su bj ec t t° 5 temptations which formerly mi e l e d t h em. Then w hat wa_ the state of those individ ua l s i n t h e Austral i an co lonies when there was so great d eman d f or la b our, that it wa s said if they sent them 12,000 persons in the course ei 4 year they would not fill up the demand for labour. , such men were in remot e 'p arts o f t h e settlemen t taking care of flocks of sheep, assisting building, or g uardiL the settlement from injury, they would receive rewards I ° 3 ; their labour which would be amply sufficient to make the_. comfortable, and give them good maintenance, though r!, mote from the country from which they originally carne Then having placed these men, in the first punishment of leaving this country, having removed th a It; rom their guilty companions, and also from their friends. °,_, relations, if they left them in that situation that they could , °Y e industry, obtain the rewards of labour, there was greatress° f to believe they would not again fall into those c ourses e e , crime, and that they would be recovered from those vie ht place, under the into which they had been originally led. He t, b° ,,, tl q ' therefore, there was sonic reason for not abandoning im prisonments in distant colonies. He thought there W as sonic reason for sayi ng th ey wou ld a l ter the p l an of , trans portation and assi gnment as a s l ave, to a tyrann ic or v in r. dulgcnt master. Th at t hi s country being already. 0 , e i _ stocked with labo ur , it;was of importance to the criminal, and one of the means o f his reformation to send himt; those distant colonies. The Committee went on to s,s,Y_ , . that rules should b e esta bli s h e d for the reeu l at i o n Of i r : o ciplinc. These had been adopted in the colonies, and a, he doubt in several respects they had worked well , h"' must observe, the lion. Baronet hardly t r eated this sub ject ject fairly when h e a d verte d to particular instances whist had taken plates in the coloni es , for when be said these criminals were sub ject to a certain system o f di s cipline , and then gave the r egu l at i on o f that disciplines it did not follow that system was d e f ect i ve i n Van Diemen ' s Land or Norfolk Island, m ore t h an in England or seo tland. The system of imp r i sonment in this country twennuatv years ago, was disgraceful to a civilized nation, e , yet he did not conceive this formed an argument against the punishment of imprisonment. The flu ent Baronet laid a good deal of stress upon the sYst on adopted in Norfolk Island. No doubt that system was e , h, of great severity, which made many wish rather for deaS_ d but that system was changed for the opposite extreme, and those employed in agriculture returned from labour laden with the fruits with which the island abounded; and, 7 0 far from its operating to prevent crime, persons were found there, for the third or fourth time, who had en mitted crimes t o ge t b ac k aga i n. T h i s was the res ult e the system opp ose d t o t h at t h e Ri ght Hon. Baronet ha d referred to, as shown in the Report of Major Arnold. Deputy Assistant to the Commissioner-General. It was not, therefore, at all a part or consequence of the plan of sending that man to distant settlements, that the plan of employment as I m v h t t u h r a e v m e e t d h y o s t e h o defects f e a c n t y s si l% • h , h e e r e r e v e else; at the public w o rk s th ere s h ou ld b e defective. They t h t e h y e f b e c h t i t t e d r t m b c o n d l e , The Hon. Baronet had made various other statements wss regard to th e s y stem o f transportation, and with regar- A tv the inequality of the sentence, • and there was this in:q -a lity with regard to a number of prisoners who we re s7n u t laT artle the hulk s; b ut t hi s must not be judged of from P instances, for some had occurred within his O wn e i x e P i n te rionce, which, if mentioned, would be calculated to elich even feelings of horror. There was one subject o te n w eeet. he was disposed to agree with the Right Hon. a toia It was, that a great defect had prevailed for a long L. en. with regard to the subject of religious instructd..67, —( Hear, hear, hear.) It appeared that from l bc i eu to 1808, only two ministers of religion had . sent to the convicts, and it had not been or iginallY ' ded to send ministers of religion at ali en Noce It certainer appeared to him the best chance of making an impression;, on the convicts during the time of their making them less liable of recurring to crime after. 1 0us discharge, was taking care they should receive redigtho instruction. It appeared to him that a great defec t taken place in former times in this respect, but this def e ct 0, was not continued ; on the contrary, the Secretary se' State had taken pains to repair it, and for this PurP o ust prisonment,,h; great exertions were still made. On the whole he Committee' say he concurred rather with the reports of the ith. of which the Hon. Baronet was Chairman, than with the proposal which he now made. He thought the posal of the Committee contemplated makin alte ration in the mode of carrying transportation into effect,snt but not its total abolition. He thought in the P re ! it state of circumstances, without saying that herea ft erau might not be found advantageous to abolish transport Ls altogether, the system best adapted for the present 7 e, that of following the recommendation of the ComnsttL e iu ta';ing care that show who were sent should have a certai n degree of punishment, and giving them the prospeet, ro means of obtaining employment after their discharge. an Hon. Baronet's plan would impose upon the country g great expenditure of nearly two millions for the erection of e Peni tentiaries, and a much further expense of course for . ti l x. maintenance of prisoners, and would leave us after all ea' posed to have them returned back on society and to all_ o ' nu evils which were suffered in France, where these per' a , formed the worst part of the criminal population. could not think it a d v i sa bl e at once to incur so large an expense on s uc h d ou b t f ul grounds. The Night art nourable Baronet had adverted to another P. of the subject—that of emigration to Australcol. He trusted they should reform the general state of . -e e, ciety in the Australian colonies ; and, at the same " % T o give other great advantages to the free settler. It the a totally different question whether they would hav e woe colonies solely recruited by convicts, whether P e , r i on . always subject to the strict regulations which the " an d Baronet had quoted, should form at all times a fe° l oo i i polluted atmosphere, or whether thole persons are Tar to form a part of the population, but he would not % er a into the question now. The Hon. Baronet said ,t 11 was a general dislike to go to Australia; certainly ho - he had heard led to an opposite conclusion. t ie , a to lieved there was generally e growing desire to em i r as to Australia rather than to other colonies, but th'''' sat the present time the emigration was not equel to w t ' st it had been of late years. The Hon. Baronet said teat the Archbishop of Dublin had done much to dissuade Ha people of Ireland from emigrating to these c olonies., l i t should be sorry to believe this. He thought that Rig Rev. Prelate carried to rather an extravagant leng th his opinions with regard to New South r" o f Ireland would have the good sense to see but he trusted, nevertheless, that the Peel' e • t advantage they would derive by emigrating the gr ea ( Hear.) He believed that the Archbishop had not don e to much to prevent emigration as Father Mathew had done id encourage it. The Hun. Baronet's resolution w' u to pledge the House to a loan of 2,000,0001. The H" would do well not in their House to incur such an obliga tion, and without wishing to vote against the abstract pre position, he (Lord J. Russell) begged to move the pre vious queStion. Lord MA HON said he had heard with the greate st h t concern of the steps, limited as they had been, which ea Noble Lord had taken in furtherance of the recant there. fo than of the Transportation Committee. On the best e believed, th a t notwithstandin man y evils, the system g con sideration h e ( Lord Mahon) had devoted to the subject, ,e t, ' transportation was atten d e d with many counterbaia Lord advantages. B u t h e must d o j us ti ce t o the Noble so far as to st a t e , th a t i n fife changes he had nisde , ,_ e . would have had n o m o ti ves b u t su c h as were praisewort h y w i s e to and he ( Lord Mahon) utterly disclaimed any ith the make a party or personal attack upon the The Noble Lord seemed inclined to do away . : _. lll transportation system at the very time when the P,r rno had become the envy of the world, and at the veYt' when France was endeavcuring to found a penal settlementmust in New Zealand. No less than 90/. per man be paid under the proposed alteration of ; syste m, elean ) in stead of the se/. now paid for transportation. — ( I leac.) _ hicht It should be recollected, that from the vast impels° " intellectual energies had of late years received, intellec tual to Noble Lord. ability or skill which would formerly have rained eminence now hardly gained subsistence even so that, easu_s; ~_ supposing the convict, under th e p ro p o sed system, to disposed to enter the paths o f i n d ustry , i n too many , those paths would be clos e d. H e b e li eve d, therefore, tnaL the parent state deri ve d great advantage from the systemof transportation, a n d h e b e li eve d t h at the punishmen t of transportation had still su ffi c i ent terrors to d eter offen°era, had But it was said w i t h considerable plausibility, that w e .0 no right to p o ur, f or our own advantage, a flood of cidrn " _ into our colonial settlements. The Hon. Baronet h(1 drawn a most dreadful picture of the state of society' in the colonies, o w in g t o th e conv i c t s . If that picture were W o uld they who would be th e parties t o cry out ? they not be the settlers themselves ?—( Hear, hear. ) } I I 1