The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-15 00:00:00

111.101 ~ thl inc rifins proceeded. England paid for the n.property and in come f rom 1801 . . £152,258,710 ic e of land and as sesse d t axes from 1823. 11 those taxes were repealed in Ireland ir" Property and income &tint 1801 . . £152,258,710 vardice, and as a proof that they had abandone u guce of, land and asse sse d t axes fiom 1823, o accomplish wh ic h, th ey h a d : b een 'returned t c len those taxes were repealed in Ireland . 50,120,425 But, he would ask the house; 'of what use O. . , , , , , , . . 82 , 483 , 583 ng forward of that question, or rather of the aril . . , , , . , . . 24 , 934 , 541 port of it have been, when the very-mention ilea • 10,291,960 s one of debate, was interdicted by the addre ted cottons . ' . . • • . . 13,549,609 i ti he was now protesting ? To show, however, m had not been abandoned from weakness of j aK a total of separate taxation on Great ild say a few words on' this subject of the re lain of . . . £333,741,871 . The Union itself was but au act of l'ark . . . ieal of it would but be an act of the legislature lug these facts he was not arguing against his country, , 4t question came under the cognizance of this he believed that he was not a wor se Irishman for endea !stion came before them as one of dismembe ag to do justice to the conduct of the people of England. be as adverse to it as any bon. member cod r.) It might be said, however, that Ireland, by consum• add be a more ardent lover of his country, and !natty of tax articles exported from this country, paid a welfare than he was; but, he need hardly rtt, , n of oures. That brought him to an important part not look upon the repeal as a measure of di' subject-namely, the increased consumption of the An hon. member, somewhat too philosophic%saries of life in Ireland since the union. The rapid increase lig, had declared other night, i n referenrto trade of Ireland since the union will appear from the attnerated in trennial periods:- , that there could not be two legislative bodietuwing table, which is taken on the averages of the years ve; but he (Mr. O'Connell), appealed to it that, with some exceptions, the Parliament ei acticatly refuted the honourable member's It Years. imports. Exports. 'arliament h a d b een c h argeu w i t h rottenness; Its------------____ en more rotten than the English Parliament, e t g7 £. £. rliament which had last sat in that house?aa ' • • • • • .. 2,762,298 3,183,972 The object of mi n i s t ers i n th e a dd ress was to1)3 ' • • • • • 3,013,021 3,077,446 .. - .:ussion of the i m p or t an t quest i on of a repeta) " .• • • • , 4,164,985 5 , 125 , 984 and their conduct had been of a piece through° • ' • • .. .. 4,299,493 4,015,976 . life. He had been said, the other eveningv ' • • • .. .. 6,535,068 5,270,471 „ judgment, upon thi s ques ti on, to go b y del • • • • . . , 6,008,273 6,291,275 is the fact? He had commenced the agitati _s• .. „ „ 7,491,890 8,454,918 uestion in 1801, and had advocated it in every 4 0 re the alteration in the commercial laws regulating the in meeting since that period. Ile continued un . urse between the countries it is impossible to continue this mancipation ; but lie refused emancipation, er iit, but there is no reason to doubt that no decrease of e followed by a repeal of the Union. (Heat has taken place. The following t a bl e wou ld p rove th e , nt in Ireland h a d cont i nue d unt il t h e gut riincrease which h a d t a k e n pl ace in th e i m p or t ation o f th e egan to b e agit a t e d i n E nglan d . H e had alo 48 for manufa c t ures into Ireland since the union :- he measure of Parliamentary Reform in En en , ge of nd, but as a means ; and he was induced to , " Years, 1 Woollen-yarn. Cotton-yarn. Cotton-wool irs to stop the progress of agitation in years wait the event of what might be proposed ! " 16. lb. lb. Ile did w a it, an d saw an effectual lieft*. " 7 7 8 428,960 d for Engl an d, an d one o f a similar tendet 1 857 883 783 l ; but, when it came to t h e turn of Ire 1793 811 5, , 405 362,432 , usetess, and j e j une bill was b roug h t in, 0 1800 1,860 276,302 1,694,336 as he saw fr om th e onset, was to be nut 1.811 1,880 558, 396 1 , 256 , 19 2 'lion of the repeal o f th e U n i on was left te IV 465,057 952,036 4,686,752 668,452 1,279,37 4 2,873,862 the sitting of the re f orme d Parliament,' "AP in, as it would appear, of justice being,' ~, 632,750 2,510,303 4,368,656 ue to Ireland.. But the ministers had met the sts, ol nase,Particularly anxious that the hon. member for Bolton ievances by the clause in the address, should attend to these statements, because whidh a t ' d s ' Torr eno cans to ado to those grievances immeasurable i f ta ted that I re l an d would be ruined if she were to get rich, imagine, because he did not bring forward People were to carry their capital there. (A laugh.) He that there were no arguments to support it? r. twi s t _. requested the attention of the hon. member for Oldham imagine that they could put down the questi tt_ requested who argued that the inhabitants of a district itional war they had proclaimed and comme. Neverm! , wretched in exact proportion to the quantity of raw ss ? The hon. and learned member then r ' l a , which they worked up into manufactures. It might, I Mr. Saurin, Lord Chief Justice Bushe, au ,be said that the improvement which he had pointed r Plunkett on the Act of Union, which he dera l a the cotton and woollen manufactures had taken place at sire that was carried by the basest corrupllre expense of the linen trade, which was the staple manufac ractised in a state, and the most gross violatal, ° f Irel an d. That, however, was not the case. Nothing of man and of n a ti ons . Th e h on. member tl - t ta° re common at the present moment than to raise a cry read returns o f ex p or t s o f I r i s h produce, 0- parti cu l ar b ranc h of trade was decl i n i ng, w h en, i n fact, Ireland of En g li s h manu f actures and foreign s l ,7 (i w as only a diminution of profit.. The table which he years immedi a t e ly p rece di ng an d following N en now read would prove there had been no decline of the wing that they h a d muc h d ecreased s i nce that 4 .. t rade in Irel a nd whilst, at the same time, there was a only meant to show that lie had no desi re te lies t improvement in the cotton trade :- scussion of the question--he was anxious to t would yield n o thi ng to b rute force. NotIL Period. Linen. Cotton. I Yards exported. Yards ditto. a his thought s th an a di smem b erment of his ' so much a lover of that country to entertain t 1777 rnt. Leave I re l an d t o herself, and in thro 1783 18,652,424 - 20,140,770 - lischarge her own sh are o f the debt. Why** 17 90 34,191,754 - aged for the d e bt o f E ng l an d ? B ut the Unrolls to England a s t o I re l an d. H ow are the poor ! 18 00 36,112,369 9,147 1810 40,751,887 77,496 ad Scotland increased ? By the wretched PI 1820 48,265,711 503,392 acturcrs. The misery of Ireland was findi 1826 51,947,413 7,793,819 lof England, and would eventually, if not eh , n and impoverish her inhabitants. Peril 4 au stated facts, which could only be confuted by facts; no A, that poor laws ought to be established in / pera.l declarations could shake their validity. Ireland was 5d they never would be inflicted on that -° „ 4l ,lng a manufacturing country, and it was found that some Ile was decided as to the impolicy of esta trues of manufacture which required hand labour could be n Ireland, although if he wanted to court!, er, executed in Ireland than in England. It was curious :ould serve it by advocating their introcil: t ,oat som e manufactures could be begun better in Ireland I they would at first work well, they would es, a in England, and finished better in the latter country than the rich, and what was then to become of theh Y t o u l d e be in the former. In this manner the interests of vinced that they wou ld operate as an Agraro Lwo countries were bound up together, and would it not be y would finally p r od uce ru i n. (Cheers.) I :l l 4etehed p o li cy w hi c h should tell the people of Belfast "You of threatening the government, but, if r',, v ~, "inplete the manufactures which cannot be so well finished le voice of the p eo pl e o f I re l an d would retlqs'Ou as at Manchester," and to the manufacturers of Man mnee, horrible , illegal, but no t unsuccess fulati st er to say " Y ou shall commence your manufacturers, ress at home ? Did not the government be cif ugh , you cannot do so as well as the manufacturers of tarving and distres se d manu f acturers and 1 ,1 as tr There was another mode of illustrating the improved sdon alone there were 100,000 Irish. He 40 1 improving condition of Ireland, since those halcyon of embellishin g , (laughter;) h e con fi ne d Y 8 which the learned gentleman had dwelt upon with' so itch t ministers reflect upon what must be the rapture ;he meant the consumption of the necessaries of ms, when the announce of the intention to lures in Ireland must suggest to them ho l e t -li Tar, tea, coals, and to which he might add, tobacco. ~e %owing table would place the increase iu the consump s, and 'mothers. He was aware that he ha, "of these articles in an obvious light:- :at length upon the attention of the house, duty to do so, whilst there yet remained ee l : l l ( lr vsr ze of ty to Ireland. H e wou ld, d ay b y d ay, rai'__, Yea rs . Raw Sugar. Tea. Tobacco. Coals. the unconstutional cou rse w hi c h minister' ----a-J it the sense of th e p eop l e o f England she' Cwt. Lb. Lb. Tons. - ipon it, and for his part, he did not belief 1777 212,620 808,748 4,409,761 330,75.3 the people •of England was oppose d to P 1783 140,662 1,703,855 4,261,639 227,557 sion.-(Hear, hear, hear.) 1798 184,406 1,858,791 2,939,559 354,395 said he hoped that the house would beat 1800 217,122 2,773,070 7,868,282 364,613 attempted to answer th e h on . gent l e 1811 330,299 3,340,334 8,364,147 516,573 may; 1820 , 269,499 3,316,021 4,146,454 675,910 indeed, the elo q u ence o f t h e h on. mem b er, ' 1 8-6 301,903 3 , 548 , 293 3,818,636 711,876 as on a perfect equality with him as regard 1830 321 199 *3,887,955 4,060,077 796,773 e land of his birth. (Hear.) In what he IT arc) a - ' house he would deal chiefly with matters ofear 1832 312,701 - 4,153,302 1.851,424 on. member for Dublin in the statements '.---:••• -and thanking him sincerely for having l i t Y ear ending Jan. 5, 1828. f Year ended Jan. 5, 1831. r to prove before the parliament of th e t at there was another article which would also exhibit proof of he legislative union had been productive e, cr eased consumption to the house, and which was the more was unnecessary for him to undertake to r"rthy of notice, as the consumption was by no means conse had not been injurious to England, becol a ,e,ti,t upon a reduced duty. The article he alluded to was country had such a thing been even for' nus itY• (Hear, and a laugh.) Hon. members might laugh, . The right hon. gent. at some length deftnt he quoted the consumption of whisky lest it should be said l the charge of neglecting the interests O k e had founded his case exclusively on the consumption of the many instances to show that they had unirg.!ssaries of life. ( Hear.) The consumption stood thus:- he most zealous of its advocates and 1 . 11 Triennial proceed to consider the financial condit . ' t 'Triennial Home Spirits. Periods. Home Spirits. Ind after the union. Time inference whir _..____ l d member wished to be drawn from his Gallons Gallons. I point was, that Ireland was prosperous 7 1 782 , 076,85 . 5 1790 2,599,576 had become wretched since that periods,' 1783 " 1,771,513 1 2d. 1800 4,149,429 sw the matter really stood. This was a qu',. 1714 4 1 ,4 3 6,50 . 2 8, 1810 3,666,329 lee by facts, and therefore he trustee ' 1 18•20 3,849,298 attend to the statement which he was all 17 92 3520 082 1826 6,645,276 the income of Ireland was £1,190,(X/0, au ' 17( " ' J 3 3,436 440 Is• 2d. 1830 9,137,015 150,000. During the ten succeeding year' be d ' ' - • it on increasing in the ratio of nearly doub l e...._ -` 3,036,353 Two 183'2 8,857,605 tears. at the termination of this period the „''' . 1 . -- --,_ whilst the ..latter amounted to 1:5,893,t 0 0 1 ti 'tete wa s another subject to which he was anxious to direct union, after providi ng f or the interest °f / l e ,etteati on , not only of the English members, but of those charges upon the - Irish revenu e , th e se ri '" taembers who were in the habit of asserting that the Im surplus of .£460,0UU to defray lilitary, and political administration o f Ire u I the exPep ',' "i ' tt P nrha ent bad done nothing for Ireland. The better to , abouteab-e the ho m use to enter into the full force of the facts he was e at the starting point. Now, did the aces to (.4_ think that the affairs of the country . coot of union ii::, it should be stated beforehand, that by the articles imperial parliament was bound to continue the a surplus of £460,000? At the period e- payment of the Exchequers, the charge fur the inter habit of votia,, ta e sums which the Irish parliament were in the r e , for time purposes of charity, literature (schools,) sd amounted to £5,900,660, whilst the in and maaa ' a etures-thal is, £73,277 per annum. The contract 0(X), leaving a deficiency of 1:20(),000. was to be bi edi _ -- f . things which should induce any one tc Lion. was, had n . g f twenty years and no lonaer. The ques tee (?1. penal parliament honestly fulfilled this edition of Ireland would be bettered b contract ? Let thereirned gentleman and the other advocates e legislature. And now with respect to of repeal come forward and prove that they had not, and they iod of the union there was in Ireland I would then, at l east in that strop point, make out a case for a sorses, and servants, besides another to: repeal. (Hear, s oar. , s) in the speeches of Mr. Grattan, as being imperial parliament) Lint, so to from the fact being that the had not fulfilled the contract-that is, paid ievances of which the people of that coil C 1,465,540 ( 73 , r, 44. -I: ''',l multiplied by £2O) -it had actually voted ueant the hearth-tax. Those taxes were. rust less wan £6,w9,000. a imperial Parliament, but, on the commit thus :- (Hear, hear.) The account stood • it.-He would now turn his attention t i . Sums voted before the union f or encouragement of £ At the time of the union duties were init. Manufactures, charity, and schools . . • 73,277 ion of raw commodities, a so l ec i sm i n l e t T o this the leg i slature stood pledged for twenty years. nost unexampled. All bacon, beef,'live 0. ...Such grants would h ave been . . . . 1,465, 5 4 0 paid a duty u p on exportat i on. I n add; The am o unt granted b y th e i mper i a l regular system of corn l aws establisher been . • • • parliament 6,979,000 has nd Ireland, as complete as that now eif. Th us itain and the continent. No man liviol ~.i n i .. , , . . . 5 513 460 the excess granted by • • • , , Parliament since the un deny that the exportation of corn ani- (iluear, hear.) But that was not all. The following sums were :ountry, since the union, had been be" . ex pended in public works in Ireland since the union, either by a empire. It had been said that the expl ,, e n , l4 a, gift, or otherwise, in addition to the large sums which he raw produce was a proof of the poverty --- " 1 just quoted :- f its wealth ; but did net the creation 0 , . Laatia friim Consolidated Fund - roads, rar e to the labourer, and was h e not. hours_ boards of health, bridges, relief and e labour which he performed? (Hear.) e to 1 • of 6 432,105 3 ldi Pto boards poor, &c. • • . s from a country was the measure of th • • . dining there, whi c h, a ft er a ll , was the i' 2,532,790 15 1 Repayments land. The members who attacked rat ' . • , • 3,899,314 8 91 yards Ireland did not recollect the se •if which no less . £564,000 Os. 2d was for public nd paid. F rom all the taxes which p . works and employment of the poor. (Hear, hear.) There was Balance a sum than England, I re l an d not only claimed, b &Mother item connected with this outlay of the public s money 1 , n. He would state to the house some to which the separate taxatien of Gr,at THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. well worth notice,—he meant the expense to the public conse quent upon the cholera visitation. In England, but £12,072 of the pubiic money was thus employed; in Ireland, the cost to the public was not less than £164,21; a fact which, in itself, spoke volumes as to the indisposition of the government to wards relieving the wants of Ireland, as compared with Eng land. (Hear.) The sums, then, expended on Ireland since the union, stand thus : Charitable and literary institutions . . . £4,225,750 Encouragement of agriculture and manufactures . 4,340,421 Public works and employment of poor . . . 3,072,160 £8,638,331 Cholera expenses in England . j 12,072 in Ireland . . . . . 164,324 But even that was not all. They all recollected the Public Works (Ireland) Bill of last session, which the learned gentle man prophesied would be of no practical use whatever—that it was, in fact, a mere delusion. (Hear.) But what was the fact? He was happy to say that not less than £819,451 Is. 9d. had been applied in the internal improvement cif Ireland, and fur nishing employment to its poor. In illustration of this state ment, Mr. Rice read the following table : PUBLIC WORKS. Memorandum respecting the Proceeedings under the Public Works' Act. 1 and 2 William IV, c. 33. Loans for works carryitrg on under special acts £. s. d. of Parliament—bridges, docks, harbours, ca nals, and roads •••• 167,949 19 2 Loans to companies and individuals—quarries, mines, drainage •••• •••• 11,800 0 0 £179,749 19 2 Loans on security of county-rates .... 36,812 18 9 Grants—piers and roads .... .... 9,700 3 0 GENERAL ABSTRACT. Loans—Applications received and sanctioned..2l6,s62 17 11 recommended and before the Treasury .. 750 0 0 not fully concluded,but under consideration 297,866 19 6 —applications rejected .... '273,773 7 4 £788,953 4 9 Grants—Applications received and sanctioned 9,700 3 0 under consideration .... 14,657 0 0 rejected .... .... 6,140 14 0 £819,451 1 9 Before he sat down, he begged to say that there were two points on which he was anxious not to be mistaken and misrepresented, —not in that house, for there he could defend and explain him self,—but out of doors, where he might have a less dispassionate set of commentators to deal with. it might be said, in the first place, that he had quoted these facts, which so irrefragably . proved that much had been done for Ireland by the imperial legislature since the union, with a view to thereby deny the existence of extreme poverty in that country. He meant no such conclu sion. In common with every man at all acquainted with the real state of the working classes in Ireland, he could but lament their destitute condition. But was that destitute condition the product of the union ? Would the repeal of that union remedy it? He confidently answered both questions in the negative. If they consulted the journals of the Irish Parliament, —if they believed the statements of the generations which had gone be fore them, they would learn that distress was a too common occurrence among the Irish artizans and labourers. They would also learn another important fact,—that the apparent prosperity of some local manufactures in Ireland was an entirely forced prosperity (hear) contrary to every sound principle of political economy,—the exclusive result of bounties and pro tecting duties. (Hear, hear.) The next misconception he wished to guard against was, that it might be said that having thus shown how much the imperial Parliament had done for Ire land, he meant it to be inferred it was to stop there and do no more. He meant no such thing; all that he meant was, to de ny, by the evidence of incontrovertible facts, that there existed any indifference or want of affectionate sympathy on the _part of the Parliament or people of England towards. their Irish brethren. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman concluded with repeating his conviction, that a repeal of the union would lead to the dismemberment of the empire, and with hoping that God would protect us from the consequences of the acts of its more zealous advocates. Mr. COBBETT said, the right hon gentleman had charged him with having promulgated very erroneous doctrines or principles respecting commercial prosperity. He had put forth no doc trines, nor did he attempt to put forth or illustrate any politi cal principles. His statement, such as it was, was a mere state ment of facts, not theories or doctrines, facts which he quoted in disproof of the doctrine of an hon. member for Knaresborough (Arr. Richards,) . that because the exports and imports of Ire land may have increased since the union, that therefore the comforts and prosperity of the Irish workmen had increased in the same proportion. He maintained that the increase of ex perts was no proof of prosperity,—that, on the contrary, it would be shown in the evidence of facts which his hon. col league'was ready to substantiate before a committee of parka ment, that as the trade of 'Manchester, as indicated by the in crease of cotton imported into it, increased, the wages' of the workmen and the profits of the manufacturer diminished. The same facts applied to the doctrine just laid down by the right hon. gentleman, namely, that because the exports, which the right hon. gentleman assumed to he pro Canto the representative of Irish labour, from Ireland had increased since the year 1777 and the union, that therefore the . prosperity of its inhabitants had increased in the same proportion. The best way, perhaps, to demonstrate the absurdity of this doctrine was to push it to its legitimate length. Let them push it, then, and they would find that in exact proportion as the manufacture of sugar in Jamaica increased—that is, as the exports of that article in creased, the destitute and oppressed condition of the negro workmen also increased. (-4 No, no," and " Hear, hear.") He distinctly recollected having read, some twenty years ago, in one of tl,,t pamphlets put forth by the abolitionist party, a statement to the effect, " that the more the produce of sugar augmented, the more heavily was the lash laid on the unfortu nate negro slave." This, perhaps, was a little exaggerated, so that he would refer them to the statement of Mr. Cropper, of Livei•pool, to the ef f ect that " the more the imports of cotton into Jamaica and the West India colonies increased, the more did the treatment of the negro increase in severity." (Hear.) Increase of exports, then, was no criterion of the prosperity of Ireland, or any other country. No, the great evil of that coun try was, that all its produce was sent out of it. While the pro duce was thus sent out of the land, it was idle to talk of better ing its condition. He would maintain that the condition of that country must be radically wrong which required grants from the Treasury to put its productive industry in motion. (Hear, hear.) The fact was, the whole produce of Ireland was con sumed in England. That fact would explain why it was in ap pearance, but certainly not in reality, that Ireland was favoured in comparison with other places which sent its produce to this country. Mr. II OBINSON (of Worcester) said he was convinced that the soreness displayed by the learned member for Dublin was wholly owing, in the first instance, tothat passage in the King's speech which gave a death-blow to his favourite project of a re peal of the union; and, in the next place, in the emphatic echo to that passage which was given by the overwhelming majority against the learned gentleman's amendment. Why, in the face of that majority, did the learned gentleman persevere in scat tering the seeds of national discord among a generous but too, confident people? (Hear, hear.) Mr. RICHARDS said that he was anxious to support the gov: ernment in any measures which he should think calculated to prevent that fatal measure—the dissolution of the legislative union; but he did not think himself pledged by his vote on the address to support any coercive measures which ministers might think it their duty to propose. Before he voted for such mea sures he should certainly give them a full and impartial consid eration. (Hear.) Notwithstanding all that was said of the misgovernment of Ireland he was convinced that the country was improving, and if the system of agitation which prevailed was put an end to, it would improve much more. He (Mr. Richards) had incidentally noticed the increase in the exports of Ireland, and the reply of the hon. member for Oldham was, that if the exports were a sign of prosperity, the population of the West India colonies were most prosperous. There was this great distinction, however, between the two cases, that there was free labour in the one country, and slave labour in the other. Mr. J. BROWNE said that he thought the time had arrived when every Irishman, who had proper feelings of loyalty towards his King and affection to his country, was bound to come boldly forward and declare his sentiments. Under certain circum stances trial by jury was, in Ireland, a mockery. Jurors were told that if they gave any verdict but one their lives would be endangered. Some extraordinary measures were necessary therefore to meet the exegencies of the case. In introducing such measures the government should have his support; and he wished distinctly to declare that, in his opinion, no measure more fatal and more wanton could be agitated than the question of the repeal of the union. Mr. MORGA N O'CONNELL said that, so long as ministers re fused to explain their measures, he should take it for granted that their petitions were to introduce violent coercive measures. (Hear, hear.) Much was said of the disturbed state of the country ; lie begged, however, to remind the house that Ire land was in a much more disturbed state a year and a half ago than it was at present, and that the disturbances at that period had been suppressed by the regular course of law, without resorting to extraordinary measures. ( Hear, hear.) Nothing was now complained of but nocturnal outrages, whilst it was notorious that, at the period he alluded to, outrages were com mitted in the open day. The fact and the truth was, that the coercive measures proposed were not intended to be directed so much against the outrages and disturbances of the country as against the agitation of a repeal of the union. (Hear, hear.) An Hon. MEMBER, whose name could not be ascertained in the gallery, stated that it was his intention, as an Irish mem ber, to support the government. Until agitation was put an end to, the country never could be tranquil. Mr. DAVID ROCHE said that, at present no case whatever was made out which could justify government in calling for measures of increased severity. (Hear, hear.) Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he felt himself called upon to rise and protest against the fresh attempt which was about to be made by ministers to oppress his country. In the name of his constituents he called upon the independent members of that house not to make themselves parties to this fresh attempt to trifle with the liberties of their fellow-subjects in Ireland. The report on the address was then brought up. On the motion that it should be read, Mr. H. GRATTAN said he had an amendment which he had intended to propose the other night, but he was unfortunately too late. (A laugh.) If the house permitted him, however, he should now move that amendment. (Hear, hear, and some cries of No.) The SPEAKER said that as the hon. member was too late on a former night, he was too early now. (A laugh.) He must propose his amendment at that part of the report on the address where he wishedit to be inserted. Mr. COBBBTT rose suddenly, and said, " I object to all that follows." (Loud laughter.) It was his sincere opinion, and he boldly declared it, in the presence of his Majesty's ministers, that the proposition which was made to the house to grant them additional powers had arisen out of the elections in Ireland. (No, no ; and hear.) The whole nation saw that this was the cause of the proposition for fresh powers. (No, no; and hear.) Why then did the ministers not declare what they intended to do? (Hear, hear.) He very believed that ministers, find ing they had not been able to prevent those gentlemen who defended their country from entering that house, had resolved to cast them into dungeons. (No, no.) One of his great ob jections to the speech was, that no mention was made of the distress of the people, at a time when there was perhaps no less than 5,000,000 or 6,000,000 of human beings in the country in the greatest state of wretchedness and destitution. He could tell the hon. member for Leeds, who had spoken so boastingly of the prosperity of his constituents, that in one district in the West hiding of York there were 40 , 000 persons out of 175,000 who had only 21c1. a-day to live ou. The people of England expected to hear some conciliatory expressions fall from his Majesty's ministers. (Cries of Question.) He assured them that they would not silence him in that way. (Oh ! oh!) He would appeal to the Speaker to preserve order. (Laughter.) "Oh !Oh !") If they proceeded in that way he would move an adjournment of the house. ("Move, move;" "Go on," and coughing.) The hon. member, who was indistinctly heard for a short time, in consequence of the inattention manifested by the house, next proceeded to read the amendment which he intended to move to the address. The amendment was, in fact, a substitution of an address of his own for the one which had been proposed.—The hon. member again alluded to the dis tressed condition of the labouring population of the country, and stated that in the town of Leicester the wages received by the operatives were only 3s. a-week. Thus the poor were kept in a state of starvation, and their earnings were taken from them and given to the lazy and undeserving sinecurists. At a rate of wages he had just mentioned, Lord Greuville's sinecure would, of itself, maintain 1,200 people for a year; that of the Herries' family `271; and the public money received by 113 privy councillors, amounting to £657,000 per annum, would maintain no less than 163,220 people. The money which had been lavished on the ornaments of one of the palace gates would supply food to 9000 during a whole year. The hon. and learned member for Dublin had been attacked with the utmost spite, for no other cause than this, that he was beloved by the people of Ireland, and that they, in consequence of the affection and confidence which they bore him, desired the repeal of the le gislative union of the two countries, which that honourable and learned member had conscientiously declared his conviction to be the cause of much evil to that country. (Hear, bear.) Why were powers to be given to the ministry to enable them to throw him into a dungeon for doing that which men now in power had done before? He would cite the words of an indi vidual possessing some authority in the sister country, the re collection of which ought to be sufficient to make him hide his head from daylight and ashamed to be known by his name. The person he alluded to, speaking of the union, stated, that " He would resist it to the last moment of his existence—to the last drop of his blood; and when he felt his dissolution ap proaching, he would, like the father of Hannibal, take his chil dren to the altar and make them swear eternal hostility against the invaders of his country's freedom. * * He should be proud to send his name down on the roll with those who had resisted the enemies of their country. * * He bore in his heart the consciousness of having performed his duty, and when his death approached he should not be haunted by the thought of having basely sold or meanly abandoned the liberties of his native land." This was the language of a man who was now living, and whom the house would naturally suppose was to be found in the ranks of the Irish repealers. No such thing; it was the language of the present Lord Chancellor of Ireland, who was to be invested with power to put the hon. and learned member for Dublin into gaol, only because he was endeavour ing to obtain a legal repeal of the union • that union, which the Lord Chancellor for Ireland characterized as the death-blow to the liberties of his country ; mid against the promoters of which, like the father of Hannibal, he was to make his children swear eternal enmity. But where were all the young Hannibals, he wondered ? (Laughter.) He had a list of them in his hand, and he would begin with young Hannibal the First. (Hear.) The hon. member then proceeded to state the details of the places ' pensions, and emoluments from the public, held and re ceived by ten different members of the family and connections of the noble lord (Plunkett), at greater length than our space will permit us to follow him, accompanying the statement with ludicrous comments, in his own peculiar style, which elicited constant peals of laughter. The hon. member afterwards con tinued:—Men now say, " You have got reform, and now that you have got it you have got no good by it." But another day may come, and people may take something more than the re form which they have new got. Many thought that our pre sent reform came too late; he had not been of that opinion formerly, but he would not say that he was not of that opinion now. Ministers might depend upon it, that if the House of Commons did not perform its duty to the people, and listen quietly and attentively_ to the complaints of the people, the people would say, " We have tried reform, and now that re form will not do we'll try something else." " But," say the Ministers, "we have a hundred thousand soldiers, with such things as bayonets at the end of their guns." Well, be it so, but let him tell Ministers that not even a hundred thousand soldiers will be able to protect the paper money. In May last, bow near everything was to a blow up! Every body knows that things could not have lasted as they then were for 48 hours longer. Let them but drive the people to insurrection in any one county in England, and they might then blow the crown off the King's head, as easily as you would blow the down off the top of a dandelion. (Laughter.) He had now laid before the house the address which he thought that it should return in answer to the King's speech. He had given his opinion as to the gorged apostates now in power ;—he had given his opinion as to the mariner in which the people were plundered by them, and how the money of the people was thrown away upon these aristocratical robbers, at the very time that the people were fa mishing. He should divide the house upon his amendment, and the house might vote upon it as it pleased. Mr. FIELDEN seconded the amendment, and in doing,so ad verted, in a tone of voice so low, as to prevent most of his observations from reaching the gallery, to the distressed situa tion of the working people of Lancashire and Yorkshire, en gaged in the cotton, silk, and woollen manufactures. He had made himself acquainted with the situation of several thousands of the working people in that country; and he" could assure the house that the distress of the working people in those dis tricts was quite appalling. He called upon the noble lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to grant an inquiry into the cause of the distress in Irelaud before coercive measures were adopted. In England the distress was most alarming among the working classes ; 40,000 out of 150,000 in the West Riding of Yorkshire were literally starving for want of employment. (Hear, Hear.) The hon. member concluded by expressing his intention to supp'mrt the amendment of his hon. friend. (Hear, hear, and cries of " Question, question.) He assured the house that the artisans engaged in those manufactures to which he had alluded, were 100-king up to a reformed parlia ment for the redress of the grievances which they suffered. He was afraid to contemplate the consequences of their disappoint ment, if they should be disappointed in obtaining that redress, He was afraid, that in that case the government would be com pelled to demand of parliament the same powers for the coer cion of the people of England which they were now demanding for the coercion of the people of Ireland. A MEMBER (name unknown) rose and said that he would not have uttered a word upon this occasion had not the hon. mem ber for Oldham said that he would divide the house, if it were only to show the people of England who were their friends and who were their enemies. Now, he should vote against the amendment; and yet be fancied himself to be quite as true a friend to the . people of England as the hon. mem b er himself. It was not by vague declamations that the sufferings of the people of England were to be relieved,—it was not by the desultory efforts of individuals that their distresses were to be alleviated, but it was by combining the efforts of individuals, and by intrusting the direction of them all to an administra tion entitled to confidence, that any beneficial result was to be attained. (Cheers.) Ile was not acquainted with any mem ber of the administration ; but if he were asked why he thong's& the administration entitled to confidence, he would reply, *. Le cause they have accomplished for us the work of reform." (Cheers.) Mr. T. ATTWOOD said that, though he did not approve of the address proposed by the hon. member for Oldham, he could not look on the original address without vague apprehension and alarm. _Gentlemen were now assembled for the first time in a reformed parliament. Why had parliament been reformed 1 For two reasons—of which the tirat was, to relieve from insupportable distress the people of England; and the second, to restore to them the full possession of their liberties. What, then, was his surprise, in listening to the speech addressed to them from the throne, td hear that the first measures proposed by ministers to this reformed parliament was a measure to restrict the liberties of the people, and to establish arbitrary power in Ireland. (Cheers from the repealers.) He did not know what the words used iu the King's speech meant, if they did not mean the suspension of the constitution. (Cheers from the same quarter.) It was stated that the mischief there was agitation. Now, in his opinion, agitation had no thing to do with the niisellief there. The mischief arose from poverty. Poverty had made agitation, but agitation had not made the misery of Ireland. (Cheers.) Force was not the proper remedy to apply-to mi sery. (Hear, hear.) It was poverty,—extreme, grinaing, undeniable poverty,—that created the discontent of Ireland; and it became tl,e government to beware, lekt, as their predecessors had made the Irhb madmen by ill-usage, thershould make them devils by further coer cion. (Hear, hear.) Ile therefore deprecated the employment of force as a means of alleviating the suffering s of Ireland. One word more. The hon. member for Leeds, and the hon. member for the versity of Dublin, in the speeches which they had delivered on a for mer evening, had led the house completely astray by their sophistry and eloquence, for they had both asserted that the question now in discussion was the question of the repeal of the union. (Hear.) He (Mr. Attwood) did not understand that to he the question. The question, as he understood it, was whether the House of Commons would entrust tyrannic power into the hands of ministers. He wan himself no friend to the repeal of the union ; he thought that the , Irish members should wait and see what a' reformed House of Com mons would do for them and for their country, before they mooted- - further the question of repeal, (Hear, hear.) They should try a reformed Parliament. If that Parliament did its duty to the people: of Ireland, he should never lie a friend to repeal, but if it failed in its duty. then he too would be friendly to repealing the union. (Cheers.) The honorable member, after perusing his observations to a great length, said that he had an amendment to propose—(hear, hear, and expressions of astonishment)—which he trusted the noble lord would allow to be adopted ; it contained the reenter in anode and a little of the fortiter in re; it would sooth and hold out the light of hope to the people of England and Irel an d. The honor a bl e mem b er then read the amendment, expressive of the sense of the house as to the exist ence of distress in the country, and pledging the house to inquire into the causes. Mr. Hustz rose amid cries of " Question" and " adjourn." which prevented him from being heard. lie was understood to state, that NS he considered this proposition the same as that made by Mr. Tenny son, he did not feel himself called upon to support the amendment. Lord ORM ELIE . hoped that the debate had proved to the satisfaction of the hon. and learned member for Dublin, that he (Mr. O'Connell) was wrong, and the repeal of the union was impracticable. His speech upon moving the address was styled unmannerly by an hon.. gentle man—was that hon. gentleman a master. of manners. He ought to have avoided falling into the same error he attributed to him. (Ques tion, question.) He felt if his duty to characterize agitation with re gard to Ireland, accordingly to his conviction honourably and fear lessly. (Question, question.) The gallery was then cleared for a division— For the amendment.. Against it. 323 290 On the re-opening of the gallery, Mr. Arrwoon was proposing at; amendment to the effect that the state of the labouring classes tk served to be examined into. Lord Avrttoar remarked, that the adoption of such an amendment might cause such an excitement as would lead to serious disturbances. He thought it had been better had it not been proposed. This amendment was negatived without a division. ~ Mr. ATTWOOD then brought forward another motion to this purpose, —That, after remedies for the redress of the grievances and wrongs of the Irish people had been tried and found ineffectual, the house would be ready to adopt measures of salutary caution. This amendment was negatived, and the address then voted without a division. _ _ _ On the motion of the LORD ADVOCATE, the house adjourned at a quarter before one o'cleek. TUESDAY. At a quarter before two o'clock, the SPEAKER took his seat, and, after the usual forms had gone through, proceeded, attend ed by Lord ORMELIE and Mr. MARSHALL, the mover and se conder of the Address, to present it to his Majesty. At four o'clock, the SPEAKER again took his seat. PETITIONS were presented, from certain soapbuilers at Salt ash, for a repeal of the tax upon soap, by Mr. GILLoN.—From certain inhabitants of Staffordshire, in support of the London and Birmingham railwav;by Sir G. SK IP WIT H.—From various tradesmen residing in gewgate-street, against Sunday trading, by Mr. Alderman Wool); on the same subject from Port Glasgow, by Mr. DUNLOP; and from Farnham, by Mr. BRISCOE.—For an amendment of the laws relating to Church patronage, from the parish of Dunlop, in Scotland, by Mr. OswAr.o, and another from the same place, by the same hon. member, on the subject of the late sittings of the house, in the prayer of which Mr. CORBETT and Mr. O'Cor%NELL expressed their concurreuce.—From the parish of St. Leonard's, Short ditch, for the repeal of the house and window taxes, by Mr. CLAY, the prayer of which was supported by Mr. COUBETT and Dr. LUSH INGTON. Election Petitions, from the town of Newry, the city of Cork, and the town of Galway, transmitted from time lianaper-Office in Ireland, complaining of undue returns, were ordered to be taken into consideration on the 7th of March. DISABILITIES OF THE JEWS. Dr. LUSHINGTON rose to present a petition signed by up , wards of LOW individuals of the Jewish persuasion, setting forth that the petitioners had been, for a long series of yearr, subject to certain disabilities and grievances; that they had trout time to time applied to the house to have them removed, but that, in consequence of the attention devoted to the mea sure of reform, they had not yet obtained the interference of the house ; that their brethren of the same persuasion in Den mark, Belgium, and other parts of Europe, and in the United States of America and the colonies, had been relieved from those disabilities and grievances, and had been restored to equal rights with their fellow-men ; and praying, therefore, for thi interference of the house to procure for the petitioners a like removal and relief. The hon. and learned member said, the petition should have been presented by the bon. member for Finsbury (Mr. Grant;) and he (Dr. Lushington) was in formed that it was the intention of that hon. member to apply for leave to bring in a bill for the purpose of carrying into et feet the prayer of the petitioners. Mr. O'CONNELL entirely concurred in the object of the petS• tion, and hoped that the day would speedily arrive when all things tending to restrict the progress of opinion would be re moved. Dr. LUSHINGTON then gave notice, (for Mr. Grant, as w• understood,) that he should apply, on the 14th of March for leave to bring in a bill to remove the disabilities from the Jews. THE KING'S ANSWER TO TIIE ADDRESS. The SPEAKER acquainted the house that the house had been that day to present the address to his Majesty, to which hie .Majesty had been pleased to return the following gracious answer:—" I thank you for this loyal and dutiful address. 1 rely with confidence upon the determination which you have expressed to support me in maintaining inviolate the legislative union between Great Britain and Ireland; and you may be assured that, in exercising the poWers which you may intrust to my government for the suppression of all acts of violence and outrage, I shall feel it my duty to assist you in the appli cation of all such remedies as may be required for removing all just grounds of complaint in every part of my dominions.' (Hear, hear.) His Majesty's answer was then ordered to be entered on the journals. - - IRISH CHURCH REFORM. Lord ALTHORP, after recapitulating the various enactments which had been made from time to time, with a view to the mitigation and eventful removal of the grievances of which the people of Ireland complained, and alluding to other measures in actual preparation and in contemplation by his Majesty's government, observed that there had been greater exaggerauon in the, statements as to the amount of the revenues of the church in Ireland, that upon almost any political topic which he remembered to have heard agitated for many years part. He should perhaps surprise the house when he stated, that from the latest returns the whole amount of the revenues of the sees was £130,000 per annum, and the gross revenues £150,000. It was to be remembered, that though great tracts of land belonged to them, they were far from conferring the beneficial effects which some m►ght expect from their extent; the tenantry enjoyed at least five-sixths of the yearly value of the property of the bishopric,- thus stattng the whole yearly amount to be £600,000, the bishops had but about £IUO,OOO, the remainder of the episcopal revenue fell to the tenants. 'With regard to the deans and chapters a similar exag geration had taken place,--there whole incomes did nut exceed £23,600; the necessary expenditure out of which was £21,000, leaving a surplus of only £2,000. He was not able to give an exact account, because he was not prepared with accurate statments; returns only or 1149 benefices out of 1401, had yet been made. The whole amount of the church revenue appeared to be £580,000 a year; but he would take it (Conciwkd on folio 197.)