The Sun. — London, England, 1857-07-25 00:00:00

rHE SUN, LONDON, SArURDAY EVENING, JULY 25, 1857 What the Admiralty did with regard to stores was to keep at the different stations such an amount of stores as would meet the probable demands of the service, and no one could suppose that it was their duty to provide spect the rock upon which Commodore Keppers :hip had been lost, and from that report he thought that in all probabili'y Commodore Keppel would be acquitted by the court marial. The motion for the adjournment to Monday was then agreed to. for every possible emergency. COUNTY FINANCIAL BOARDS. Mr. KNATCHBULL-lIUGESSEN wished to know whether it was the intention of the government to in troduce any measure upon this subject next session ? Lord PALMERSTON said at one time it was the in tentionof government to proposes measure; but the bill in troduced by Mr. Milner Gibson elicited great difference of opinion with regard to the manner in which the boards should be constituted, and her Majesty's Govern xnent found so much difficulty in reconciling the various opinions on that subject, so as to aff•.ird a fair prospect of carrying the bill through the house, that they were no t able to carry into execution the intentions which they had announced. The government did not see their way sufficiently to justify him in holding out an expec tation that they would introduce a bill on this subject in the next session. THE NEW GOVERNMENT OFFICES. Mr. B. HOPE said, in the absence of the First Com missioner of Public Works, he would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer • whether he proposed to lay the esti mates for building the War and Foreign-offices before LE [TRIM ELECTION• The SPEAKER informed the house that he bad Iv ceived a letter from Mr. Coppock, stating that it was not intended to proceed with the petition against the return for this county. DIVORCE AND MATRIMONIAL CAUSES BILL. Upon the order for the second reading of this bill being read, Mr. HENLEY, in rising to move that the order be postponed until that day month, said that it was not his intention to raise any question upon the principles of the bill, but to apply himself only to those matters which would show that by adopting his resolution the conve nience of the house and the advantage of the public would be secured. The house would recollect that, as the law at present stood, persons who required a disso lution of marriage were obliged to go through three dis tinct operations, one proceeded with in the ecclesiastical court, a second in a court of common law, and the third the house this session ? being obtained from the House of Lords by way of pri- Mr. BRISCOE was glad that the hon. member had vilege. Such being the state of the law, .the Govern called attention to this subject. He believed the cce<t ment, in 1853, issued a commission to inquire into the of.the contemplated Government offices would be enor present state of the law of divorce a vinculo matrimonii. moue, (Hear, hear.) On the previous day a distin- The commissioners met, and agreed to resolutions. In guished architect, with whom he had conversed on the the following year legislation commenced in the House subject, told him that he believed the cost of carrying of Lords. A. bill was embodied in the house, and passed; out the block plan for the improvements in Westmin'ster, whether it was ever read in the House of Commons or for which a prize of 5001 was awarded, would not be less not he did not know. Nothing, however, came of it, and than twelve or fourteen millions. (Laughter.) This so the matter rested until the present year, when the bill was not the proper time for embarking in such an under which hon, members were asked to consider was intro taking, and he hoped the Government would postpone duced, and passed through the House of Lords. It was the consideration of the subject till another session of not necessary for him to call attention to the gravity of Parliament; (Hear.) He knew he spoke the opinion this question—it was one of the greatest importance, not of the country at large—(hear, hear)—and he would u h te e only on account of the number of persons directly coming all the means in his power to arrest the progress of the only its influence, but because what was done upon it bill. might tend to weaken the solemnity and firmness of the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged marriage tie throughout the length and breadth of this the house to understand that her Majesty's Government land. With the view of showing how impressions had were not committed or pledged in any way to the adop tion, on the subject, he would proceed to contrast the tion, either of the block pan of which his hon. friend recommendations of the commissioners and the t wo lately exhibited in Westminster Hall. The matter was had just spoken, or of any of the plans which had been bills which had been agreed to by the othe r h ouse w ith still open to the consideration, not only of the house, each other. In the first place, th e re p or t o f th e com missioners recommended as a tribunal for the considers but also of the Government. With respect to the hon. tion of matrimonial causes a court consisting of three member's question, he had to state that it was not the permanent judges. In 1854 it was proposed to throw intention of the Government to present any estimate this matter upon the Court of Chancery. The present. this session. Mr. GLADSTONE said he was one of those who bid proposed the creation of a new c our t, cons i s ti ng o f sympathised in the alarm which had been expressed by the Lord Chancellor, the two Lord Chief Justices, an d t his hon. friend near him (Mr. Briscoe), He was very the Lord Chief Baron, and the judge of th e C our t o f much pleased with the statement of his right hon. friend Probate, of whom three were to be a quo ru m. W i th regard to the subject of appeal, the commissioners re that the Government were not committed ; but con commended a general appeal to the House of Lords. In Dtcted with his views of this extraordinary project, was the measure of 1854 the appeal was to be similar to the a stroog apprehension lest step by step, and inch by inch, appeals from the Court of Chancery, and therefore with without any formal decision of the house, they shout b e an ultimate appeal to the Lords. At present it was pro drawn unawares into pledges with regard to what be posed tat should be no aal on uestions of must say was, considering the necessities of the public fa ct, but upon there questions of law an appeal q was given to service, one of the most extraordinary schemes, in a financial point of view, that had ever been submitted to the House of Lords. Again, the commissioner s , a ft er considerable deliberation, came to the conclu s i on th a t the legislature. If, as was stated to be the case it was judg expected that they were going to clear a great sqnare for questions of fact should be left to the the purpose of erecting public buildings at a cost of te- jury should not be summoned. In 1854 he House of Yeral millions, let them beware of being drawn into the t es, and that a Lords was still of opinion that there should b e no j ury . scheme unawares. The proposal of the late Sir W. Melee- When the present bill was first brought f orwar d, t h ere to worth was a rational one, but he hoped the house woul was e, be a jury—not of right i n ever y case, b ut only not commit itself to any portion of the gigantic scheme where, in the discretion of the j u d ge , it was t h oug h t et in quhstion without opportunity having been afforded for to summon one. During the discussio n o f th e - su bj ec t th e full discussion on a matter which so much concerned mind of the house underwent a ch ange ; an d as t h e bill their duty to their constituents, and he would add their came down, it gave a j ur y as a matter o f r i ght. T he house would see from thi s th e di vers i ty o f op i n i on w hi ch re putation for common sense. Mr. BENTINCK said they bad heard a great deal of bad prevailed on this subj ec t ; an d i n t h e f ace o f t h at late about the inconvenience of discussion on the quo diversity he would a s k h on . gen tl emen w h ether at the Lion of adjournment, and if ho himself continued the period of the session at w hi c h th ey h a d arr i ve d i t was discussion that evening, it was solely because he did not at all likely that the bill cou ld rece i ve t h at attent i on succeed in catching the Speaker's eye when the gallant which its gravity d e m an d e d ? Th e di vers i ty o f v i ew to which he had ju s t re f erre d on l y a ff ecte d t h e admiral rose to address the house. (Laughter ) It was subject of jurisdiction ; he w ou ld p rocee d t o s h ow t h at remarkable that the emergencies of which the right hon. subj s at baronet spoke occurred every three cr four years, and the same state of things existed w ith regar d t o t h e that enormous sums of money were frequently wasted for subject to be adjudicated up on . Th e bill d ea l t not want of due precaution. He should like to know who. only with the subject of d ivorce a v i ncu l o rnatri moni to ther the Governmentdid ordid not take upon themselves judicial searation a state of this better call de any responsibility in regard to the mode and rapidity scribed as divorce a mensa et thoro. The ng commissioners of transition in the else of the troops conveyed to thought that divorce a me nsa e t th orn s h ou ld f o ll ow India,' or whether the whole matter was in the ban is of the Erst 'lndia Company. The declaration of tee gross cruelty, conjugal i n fid e lity, an d w ilf u l d esert i on, • . right hohieuhable' baronet (Sir Charles Wood) that the the latter also being pro v id e d f or i n th e a lt ernat i ve b y a d pietent emergency could not have been foreseen wa s one degree for alimony. In 1854, d eser ti on f or t h ree years w that ought; never to have come from a Minister. It wag as made one of the ground s o f thi s di vorce. Th en came the betiiiess of the Government to foresee emergen- the bill of this year, which fi xe d th e p er i o d o f d esertion cies. He could nave wished that the right hon. baronet at two years. The bill of 1857 a l so con t a i ne d a very had stated whit number of troops would be left in Great curious provision, the practi ca l resu lt s o f w hi c h he thought would be more a w kw ar d th an it s proposers BeltitiCeated Ireland after all the troops designed for seemed to imagine. This bills gave the wife, upon deser dia Itidleinbarked. The house ought to know what was tion by the husband, the right to h er earn i ngs as aga i nst thiy'piWeritstatb of the defences of the country, and what him and his creditors. This right was to b e secure d b y reset/V - 0s the Government had to meet any further dietur the decision of one magistrate, from who m an appea l babeee trr'eOlemities which might arise. They should not would lay to two. Both the bill s —th a t of 1857 as we ll •be 'cinertiented With the assurance of the Prime Mi n i s t r as that of 18 the round ivorce a 'o that te in his opinion, those defences were satisfactory, if applied for s by the xed husban g d upon adultery only. vincu With COMMODORE KEPPEL, regard to the wife, the commissioners recommended that Lord C. PAGET rose to ask the First Lord of the Ad- this species of divorce should be granted to the wife in mtialtne whe,ther'there was any foundation for the report cases of " aggravated enormity "—a phrase which they thatiCernmodore Keppel hal been recalled from his cone- explained as including incest and bigamy. The measure mand_in. the China Sea? The noble lord said he had of 1854, on its introduction, confined the remedy as re uaclerstoo vettiain the last half-hour that it was not the carded women to the same grounds as those fixed by the intentionOt t e First Lord of the Admiralty to recall commissioners, and they increased the grounds of divorce Commodore Keppel from the China Sea provided lee so that they included incestuous adultery, unnatural were acquitted by a c curt-martial. Perhaps his right offences, or attempts to commit them, while they hen, friend would do him the favour of nodding his head omitted bigamy. The measure of 1857 gave the right if that view were correct—(laughter)—as in that case he of divorce to the woman in the following cases :-1-t should not feel it necessary to trouble the house with Incestuous adultery; 2d. Bigamy; 3d. Adultery, with any statement. gross cruelty ; and 4th. Adultery. with desertion for [After a short pause, during which the sign in question two years. Here were most important variations; and was not given by Sir C. Wood, the noble lord proceeded.] again, as regarded these, he would ask the house if at He was afraid he must assume that Commodore Keppel this time of the year so important a matter, upon which was not to be allo wed to remain in the East, and that the so many opinions might , after great deliberation, be Admiralty were about to commitan act of great injustice formed, could be considered with any good result? He to wards one of the most meritorious officers in the navy, would next refer to a question upon which the commis and that to at a time when the services of the best and sionersgave no opinion, the action of crim. con. As the bravest officers ware much required in the China Sea present bill came down to them the action was abolished, against an enemy that was very numerous and not alto- but in getting at this result great uncertainty of purpose gether despicable. Under these circumstances he felt it had been shown. At first the action was to be retained, his duty to state in a few words the circumstances which but to be brought after instead of before the divorce; then attended the loss of the Raleigh frigate. Commodore it was proposed to make criminal conversation a misdemea- Keppel having distinguished himself greatly on the nour • ultimately a flue was proposed and the action heights of Sehastopol, was appointed second in command abolished. Now he would beg to call the attention of under Sir M. Seymour on the China station. He pro- the house to the fact that, as he had already contended, ceeded without loss of time for his destination ; and there were but few cases coming within the scope of this w h e n within sight of the enemy's coast his ship bad the bill, Taking the average of the years from 1834 to the misfortune to strike on a sunken rock, which was not present time, he found that the number of cases of di in any chart and was totally unknown, so that no blame vorce a vinculo averaged only three per year. He had could attach- to the officer in command. The commander- thus called the attention of the house to the position in in-chief represented very stron g ly to the Admiralty which the matter stood. He could get no information es that no blame attached to him ; and since the catastrophe to"the present average of suits, but by the report put. in question he had been actively employed against the lished 1832 he found that the whole number of causes in enemy, and, so far as was known, he was so employed all the courts of England for 1827-28-29 was 101, and of at the present moment. It ho were recalled it roust be that number there were 16 in the Arches Court of Lan owing to one of two reasons. If a sentence of his brother don, and 42 in the Consistory Court ; that was to say officers should be recorded against him, he (Lord C. 58 altogether in London, and 43 in the country ;so that Paget) would not say a word against his subsequent re- by the bill 4-sths of the jurisdiction would be swent cal, but as he was justified in placing implicit reliance on away and no remedy provided for the people. He had the charts, it was not likely that such an event would now stated the reasons which induced him to come to happen. His recal, if it took place, would, he believed, the conclusion that if Government persisted in going on be owing to an antiquated rule of the Admiralty, that a with this bill, there must be lengthened discussion in commodore of the second class was incapacitated from committee on the points be had mentioned. Petitions hoisting his flag on board any other ship than his own ; lied been presented signed by 6 ; 900 clergymen, so that so that if, in the chapter of accidents, a commodore in it was quite clear that the interest taken in the subject command of a squadron had the misfortune to lose his was very great, and in the subject was very great, mei ship iq action with an enemy, he could no longer hold if the discussion should be indecently cut short by the a command over the other ships. It was, he under- termination of the session, they ran the risk not only stood, in consequence of this antiquated rule of the of shocking the high feeling of the country, but of finish- Medea and Persians that Commodore Koppel was to be ing with a crude and ill-digested measure. The Govern recalled, and thus degraded and dishonoured, without ment could, he felt, have no interest in the matter except any blame being attributable to him. He might refer to produce a good bill ; there were very few parties that to a parallel case which bad occurred in the army. When could be injured by delay, while much good might result his hon. and gallant friend the member for Greenwich (Sir from their proceeding With circumspection. On all these W. Codrington) arrived at Varna with the expeditionary grounds, he implored the Government to acquiesce in force sent to the east, he was a major in a battalion of , his motion, that the second reading be postponed for the Guar6. A brevet went out ; that gallant officer one month. was promoted, and the result of this was that he was at Sir G. GREY thought the course taken by the right once placed on the half-pay list. Under ordinary cireurn- hon. gentleman most unusual and inconvenient. When stances he would have been compelled to return to Eng- the order of the day was read, the Attorney-General land, The lamented Lord Raglan, however, knowing rose (Mr. HENLEY: I did not see him)—Yes, he rose to the value of his services, and disregarding in such a case propose the second reading, intending to make a complete old rules and regulations, at once appointed him to a statement, not only of the principles of the bill, hut command ;. and the country owed to this circumstance of the grounds upon which the Government asked for is that it bad the services of the gallant officer at the Alma second reading this session. But the right hon. gentleman and at Inhere - min The much-abused Horse-Guards con- interposed with a motion which was equivalent to put firmed Lord Raglan's appointment ; and, knowing that ting it off for another session, and would be the same in Si; M. Seymour desired to retain the services of Cone am- result as the motion of the hon. and learned member for done Keppel, he appealed to his right hon. friend (Sir Dundalk, from identity in opinion with whom the right C. Wood) to pursue a similar course, and, if he could n , t hon, gentleman endeavoured to guard himself. The right do so otherwise, to stretch a point, and give the officer hon. gentleman avoided touching on the principle of the in question a red pennant.. At all events he hoped the bill, but ho had done what was still more objectionable, Admiralty would not recal a most efficient officer, who leaving.his opinion as to principle uncertain while he ea was 15U00 miles from this country. (Hear, hear.) He tered into all the details, which could only properly be believed bisgiglit bore friend felt ver y much as he did discussed in committee. He would now address himself on this subject, and treated that he would take the bit to the objections of the right hon. gentleman, the first of in his mouth, and retain Commodore Keppel in active which was the most extraordinary he had ever heard. service. The right hon. gentleman asked them not. hastily to le- Sir . G. GREY said the fact of his having to rise to gislate on a subject of gravity and importance, as if this answer the noble lord illustrated the inconvenience of were the first time the subject had been under discussion, discussion on the motion for adjournment. His right and that they were about to legislate without previous h(M. friend (Sir C. Wood) having spoken once could not inquiry. But the right hon. gentleman himself admitted do to again, and it was necessary, therefore, that he that there had been repeated inquiries, that the bill had should reply on his behalf. No one who was acquainted I been several times before Parliament, that it had under widdeConemodore Keppel would dissent f rom th e p ra i se gone d e lib era t e i nves ti ga ti on, and that some improve weicjige nobl e lord had bestowed upon him ; and lie Ine pt h a d resu lt e d i n ma tt ers o f d eta i l. He thought that . ; cltynthttknow why miraity were doing anything noble lord assumed that the Al- on the right hon. gentleman's own showing, they were anythin g t o di sgrace it. The whole in full possession of the provisions of the bill, and there course of their conduct showed that they had no Casio fore quite in a condition to invite the House of Commons sition to disparage the services of officers of the nave, to give it s a ss ent to the principle by passin g the second The fact was that Comm o dore Keppel had lost his shi t , reading, while, if they postponed it, the right hon. gen and by the invariable rule of the service whenever that tlemen who now urged that three measures had already happened the officer in command was put . under trial by been rejected, would come back next ses s i on with a court-martial, in order that the circumstances of the loss stronger argument,h they as he would then be able to add a might be inquired into. If th ere were eci room for blame f our th the list. The other objection was that were the proceedings would of course t erm i nate _ as all mutt near the end of ' the session. He did not think it signified h ope they might terminate —in Commodore Koppel's+ at what period of the year a subject was considered, pre acquittal ; but while the matter was still sub-judice he vi led there was a sufficient attendance of members, and, must protest against , any attempt to prejudge the ques• without appealing to that particular period of the even thin in the Efouse of Commons. He believed, moreover, ing at which the benches were usually thin--(e laugh) that thO bowie itself would not be willing in each a case -2ae thought that the general attendance just now bad to be forced into a discussion of the question, General CODRINGI'ON did not think that the nobl e nothing in it that i n di ca t e d a wan t of interest in the businets of legi action. The atte n da n ce recen tly h a d t lord bad desired Isis the house to prejudge the cese_of Cone- been as goo d as at any former period of ttie session, amt a showedmOdoee KeKeppel.object h a d been to call the at .the divi s i on list a very fair av er a ge o f mem b ers . Ugh' of hon. members to the rule of the service v ?eh Her Majesty's Ouveriunent had deemed it their duty ee t , preve n t e d th e comman der-in-chief on the spot empn eying propoe e thi s bill to Parliament it had received t a emernodore who had had the misfortune to lose his deliberate attention of the other Louse, and it would be ship- Ilia, be thou g ht, a ver y un k r tunate rule, one a matter of deep regret if, in consequence of the reasoa the see- assigns every ebryy one ee confer i n g f h e t s hon, sed, 8 h g o e u n l ❑ d tl e n m e m p e e r t p h e e t o s a c t a e n d d scandal, which often prevented the country from having vices of able officers. Admiral WA.LCOTr quite concurred with the gallant another year. (Hear.) They, (the Government) earnestly been general in thinking that the rule to which reference had hoped that the right hon. gentleman would allow the been made was a very unforturate ono. He thought hill to bo road a second time. Let them Lave the pric cipal fairly before the house, and l et them not have a chief that where a court mart i a l a b road acquitted a c,m wander, the admiral or oth er , o ffi cer comman di ng in cussion which, at that moment, must be incomplete. should have power, in case of necessity, to make Ho hoped that the house would read the bill a second use, of that comatander'm ee rv i eee, I time, and proceed with the details, so as that a rem e d y ELPHINSTONE.heId inhis land a copy of r might he applied to the scat: dais eeisting in the law, an d the surety of the gentleman who had been sent to in- ' that the present opportunity might nit be lost of eff.ct- ng a reformation which on all hands was most earnestly but I want to know, among other things, in making a ' desired, change in a law of this antiquity and importance, what Mr. GLADSTONE—My right hon. friend does not, prospect of stability is afforded for this new system you it: a ppears, fe e l the f or c e o f th e o bj ec ti ons w hi c h h ave are about to introduce; and it is m a t er i a l i n d ec idi ng t h a t hieen urged by the right hon. member fa r Oxfordshire, question, to c insider that this new p l an h as never yet been ad ia . ,e 1 in any part of Chri s t en d om , or I b e li eve i n He thinks it impossible that the scandal s i n th e ex i s ti ng marriage law should be continued f e r ano th er y ear , b u t any country outside Christ en d om , b u t certa i n l y not within the limits of Christendom, either in Ro nan Ca -1 hardly know to what scandals my right hon. friend tholic countries, countries of th e E es t ern Ch urc h , or alludes. If he speaks of the defective stat e o f our law Protestant countries. That appea rs t o me t o b e a goo d with respect to the protection of wives a nd hu s b an d s respectively as to their earnings in case of se p ara ti on , I reason, among a multitude of oth ers , w h y wo s h ou ld have admit the scandal, but that scandal req u i res a diff eren t ample time to consider what w e are a b ou t. W e are not remedy, and is not, as I conceive, a ff ec t e d by th e mo t ion i provided with the requisite informati on a t thi s moment to enable us to legislate satisfactorily. N ow , s i r. t h ere was of the right hon. men - lesr for Oxfordshire. If the Govern a point referred to by the right hon, gentleman (Mr. Hen try really do desire, nam e ly, obt a i n i ng b e tt er protection went really aims at doing what the p eo pl e o f thi s coun loy) of immense importance. If th e r i g ht h on , gent l eman for themselves and their fa m ili es i n case o f th e m i scon - had not raised the question by hi s mo ti on, if t h e bill h a d duct of husband or wife respectiv e ly, th en , I sa y, l e t m y been passed in haste and with ou t d ue d e lib erat i on, what right hon. friend make us that o ff er —l e t hi m p ro p ose according to the right hon, gen tl eman , s h ou ld we h ave the simple, easy portion of his e n a c t men t s h av i ng re f er - done? Under the idea of legislati ng f or th e b ene fi t o f t h e ence to this subject, and the scand a l s o f th e marr i age poor and middle classes we sh ou ld, by passing this bill, law in England may all be rerxedi e d d ur i ng th e p resen t actually cut off from those clas ses th ose f ac ili t i es f or t h e minor and ecclesiastical divor ce w hi c h th ey now en j oy session without difficulty. That portion of the subjec., t would not lead us to the rocks and sho a l s an d qu i c k- through the medium of the lo ca l cour t s . Th e bill was d sands which encompass the rest of th e measure . B ut discussed during two months i n th e H ouse o f L or d s, and by all the learned lore of th e coun t ry . Y et t h ey my right hon. friend bad perhaps i n vi ew ano th er de scription of scandal, which I admit exists, altho ug h its never found this out. It was reserve d f or th e pat i ent importance has been enormously exaggerated, namely, acumen of the right hon. gentleman the memb er f or Ox the scandal that persons possessed of a c e rtain amount fordshire to find that, while we su p pose d t h at we were of property can get a dissolution of mar r iage, while n u - legislating for the benefit of th e p oor an d m iddl e c l asses e body else oan. This is a scandal—l do deny not it—(h e ar, —assuming it to be for their b ene fi —it cut off from the hear)—which deserves the grave co ns id era tio n o f the great mass of the people thos e l ega l j u di c i a l reme di es i n house as to what manner it may dealt with ; but sur e ly suits of marriage of which hith er t o th ey h ave b een ena there is no overpowering necessity for dealin g w ith it a t bled to avail themselves. I n consequence o f a converse the present moment. (Hear, hear.) The n ecess ity d oes tion I had with the right hon. gen tl eman I h ave b een l e d not arise in the recess, because it relates to A c ts of P ar - to ascertain how the case sta n d s i n S cot l an d , i n or d er to !lament, and Parliament may very well co ns ider i n ano ascertain the effects of locali s i ng th e courts , f or t h oug h titer session what is to be done with the law of ma rr ia g e ; we have no means of dissolvi ng marr i age , we h ave t h e but Ido hope that my right hon, friend will not say th a t means, as the law stands, of e ff ec ti ng j u di c i a l separat i on. I this scandal constitutes a matter of very grave p u bli c In that respect our system i s cur i os l y contraste d w i t h importance. The course taken by the right ho n . mem - that which exists in Scotland, f or w hil e we h ave got l oca l her for Oxfordshire is in my opinion a most l eg iti ma t e courts to administer a limited : law of divorce, Scotl a nd course. (Hear, hear.) The right h o n. g en tl eman sa y s has no local courts, but admi n i s t ers the law—not a limited law like ours, but a law ext en di ng t o th e dissolution of that he feels in his own mind a real difficulty as t o w h a t m is to be done in this matter. He does n o t a pp ear te arriage—by means of a cen t ra l t r ib una l . Wh at cou ld h deny that the whole question of the st a t e o f th e l aw o f have been more natural in an y f u ll cons id erat i on o f the marriage may justify the consideration of P ar li amen t, subject with a view to l eg isl e ti on th an to h ave i nqu i re d but my right hon. friend, suspecting th e r i g ht h on . gen - into the state of the facts as regar d s S co tl an d , an d to aleman of a latent determination to opp ose everything have a certained from those f ac t s w h at t h e probable snit of concentrating the matrimonial suit s i u L on d on re that may be proposed, puts on his moti on a construc ti on it was not intended to bear. Now, is it no t a p oss ibl e would be. Fee there we ha ve an examp l e b e f ore our eyes, and it is a very importa n t p o i n t w h e th er we are to state of things that there may be man y p ersons entertain matrimonial suits in a cen t ra l cour t i n L on d on in this house who do feel a difficulty as to the course ttat ought to be taken in this matter ? (H ea r.) W e mus t or in 30 local courts spread all over th e coun t ry . U pon all be aware that it would be impossibl e to exaggerate that point we have no informatio n . Wh en , h owever , I ' the difficulties of the case, and ar e we t o b e so presuaisp- ay how important the question wa s i n re f erence t o re stricting the facilities given to th e m iddl e an d poorer tuous as to think that in a moment w e can see our wa y classes, I endeavoured to see how th e case s t oo d i n Soot through these difficulties, or be so debased in our notion; land. I spoke to the Lord Advoca te , b u t h e h a d no infor greatof puled() duty, as to think it justifiable to deal with thi s oration to give. . Nobody thoughtit worth while to iq and sacred snbject, in a ny of th e or di nar y mo d es of Parliamentary operation ? The re i s one conso l a ti on quire, and no information could be o bt a i ne d. Th e no bl e in approaching this subject, and th a t i s th a t it h as no lord could tell use of the number of divorc e s, b u t as t o th e connection with the existence of any Governm e nt, or the habitation of the parties be could t e ll me no th ing . I principles of any party. It is a rnatterin respect to which went back to the report of the commi ss i on o f 1853, an d then I found an acc o unt of about 100 di vorces th at h a d there are obligations affecting us i n common as Chris tians and legislators, and which hav e no connec ti on with taken place withi n some 6 or 8 y ears p er h aps , b ut t h e political views or obligations, an d th ere f ore I t rus t that number of years do es no t m atter. Th e names o f t h e my right hon. friend will not a s c r ib e v i ews w hi c h he parties were describ e d, an d i n most c ases th e res id ence himself disclaims to the r i g ht h on . mem b er f or O x f or d- was given, but riot in all ; but there was not one of tho s e shire. (Hear.) The ri g ht h on . gen tl eman w i s h es f or time divorces—or if o ne , it was an exceptio n t o th e rule— to determine on his course, but my ri g ht hon. friend says, that came from th e remo t e p a rts of Scotl an d. A s f ar as the info rma ti on I was th us enabled to obtai n goes , " Nu, you must vote without consideration." I protest against that mode of argument, which, coming f r o m so the appeara n c e o f th e case i s this—th a t th e l aw o f divorce in Scotla n d i s no t a l a w of divorce f or S co tl an d, high an authority as the Secretary of State, b r i ngs th e question out of the atmosphere in which it ought to be but for Elinburgh, Leith, and the immediate neighbour discussed, into the ordinary foul and fetid atmosphere of hood of those towns which are in easy and cheap com political and party motive. (Hear.) I frankly own that I munication with them ; but the great bulk of the rural tio not entertain any doubt on the main question involved districts, especially in the northern and western portions in the present bill—l mean as to the true interpretation of of the country, are completely cut off from access to the Christian law of marriage ; but at the same time I divorce, by the fact of there being only one court. Now, make for myself the same petition as that of the right is that right—is that a system we should introduce into hon a a gentleman. I wish the legislation may not be this country ? (Hear, hear.) It is all very well for legal adapted to my view of Christian doctrine, but to the reformers who draw diagrams of law reform on paper, general wants and exigencies of the country. I say that and view them with the accuracy and precision of a we should have the ordinary means of testing those mathematician dealing with a problem, to propose a wants and exigencies, by g i v i ng every opportunity for central court with its well-paid officers and its s t a ff o f deliberation. In my opinio n th e sen ti ments o f t h e people advocates, and t o conc l u d e that they have d one a ll t h a t is necessary. But h ere i s a practical point in vo l ve d, an d of this country, o f th e part i es moat i nterested, namely, the clergy, and of m em b ers o f P arl i ament—all import- I have mentioned th ese f a cts to show the imp or t ance , as ant elements in the m ass o f p u bli c op i n i on — should have affecting the rights of the poorer and middl e c l asses , o f the proposal for establishing a single cent ra l cour t in full opportunity for e x p ress i on . I d o not come a cut and dry system o f o pi n i on , b u t to d o my d uty as a here with stead of a number o f l oca l courts spre a d th roug h t h e member of Parliament, acc or di ng t o th e b es t arrange - eountry. (Hear.) Th e p o pulation of Edi n b urgh an d ment that the case will p erm it, an d I cannot property Leith is about one-t wen ti e th of that of th e w h o l e o f Scot determine on that arr angemen t if th e di scuss i on b e now land, so that th e y oug ht t o have about one -t went i et h o f precipitated. My right hon. f r i en d says th a t th e atten d- the divorces if th e b us i ness of the cour t s were equa l ly ance is such as to leave no room f or appre h ens i on that distributed. B u t b y t h e re t urn conta i ned i n the the meaeure will not be fai r ly di scusse d. N ow, if I t h ought report of the commissioners to w hi c h I h ave alluded, it a pp ears th a t i ns t ea d o f one-twentieth, that the present attendance in thi s h ouse were t h e at- Edinburgh and Leith, witho u t spea ki ng o f t h e tandems, of members waiting to dispose of divers bills, I neighbotarhoad, furnish one-third of the whole should agree with my right hon, friend, but no one knows better than my right hon. friend that it is not the bills or the divorces that take place in Scotland. This shows that the question of th e l oca l courts i s v i ta l that secure the present attendanc e . There is a question to the whole matter. Do not let me b e t o ld th a t thi s coming on next Monday which h a s muc h t o d o w i t h t h e atteneance of members, there lea p o liti ca l cr i s i s i mpen d ing may be all very t rue ; th a t we can ma k e t h ese courts on the next two or th ree d a y s , an d a possi bl e coll i sion be- local afterwards. It i s a c l ear ax i om t h at we ought to avoid perpetual meddling with th e l aw o f marr i age . W e tween the two houses of P ar li amen t. Th ere i s a l so a question relating to the c om p ensa ti on o f certa i n eecle- should establish what we thi n k a goo d sys t em , b u t no t siastical officers which has no t y e t b een di spose d o f b y be continuelly worrying a subject of thi s ki n d w ith per the Attorney-General, and w hi c h h as muc h more to do petual changes. (He ar .) I wou ld as k th e h ouse t o con with the attendance of mem b ers i n town theta the Divorce cider the number of que s ti ons th a t are involved—ques tions that are not to be r egar d e d as o f mere d e t ai l, b u t Bill. I believe that fo r th e next f ew d ays members will keep togetherto di scuse th e l n di an mut i ny and the griev- which, nevertheless, can only bo co n sid e r e d i n comm itt ee , ances of Doctors' C ommons , b u t th at when these two inasmuch as the opinion of m e mbers ca n o n ly b e g i ven b questions are out of th e wa y, th e 40 gent l emen holding by means of changes propos e d. If th e r i g ht h on . gent l e man thinks that we hav e s o littl e t o di scuss h e w i ll b e office, and about 40 volu n t eers o f unusua l zeal, w i ll be undeceived when we c ome t o th e secon d rea di ng. I w i ll the whole represent a ti on o f th e H ouse o f C ommons to dispose of the Divorce Bill. Ido not appeal on this point refer shortly to some points of the utmost importance to argument. I appeal to what is better. My right hon. which naus; be discussed when we come to consider the friend says that the righthon. member for Oxfordshire has bill itself, You have to consider whether are prepared adopted an unusual course. It may b e an unusua l course, to establish for England o ffh an d, w ith ou t i nqu i ry, b u t based upon the opinion of th e h ouse , a sytem w hi c h no bto; it is called for by u nu - ua l circumstances, and I ask other country has ever seen ; or w h et h er you w ill a d opt my right hon. friend a n d th e Att orney -G enera l to let roe know on what o c cas i on a bill o f thi s nature, sego s- some one of those systems th a t h ave t h e sanct i on and the tude, and gravity was ev er b e f ore su b m i tte d to Parlia authority of previous legisl a ti on — t h at i s, whether you went the first time fo r cons id era ti on on t h e 24 t h o f will extend the principle of di sso l ut i on of marriage to July 3 The Secretary of St a t e says we oug h t to take t h e other causes besides adult er y, wh i ch, i n the judgment various discussions in the H o w e o f L or d s as a proo f o f of men as wise as yoursel ves , h ave b een held to be valid the maturity of thi s measure , b ut h e ent i rely misunder- causes for the dissolutio n o f t h e marriage tie ? (Hear, stood the right hon. memb er f or O x f or d sh i re. I t the hear.) There is one En g li s h- aut h or i ty that should in- duce us to adopt that view — v i z., t h e Reformation League gress, then there might b e some thi ng t o rec k on when succession of discussions had move d i n one li ne o f pro upon which we shall have mu c h to say when we come to the bill came to thi s h ouse , b ut I take t h e case to be the second reading of the hilt B ut let us look for a exactly the reverse ; the up s h o t o f t h e statement of the moment at the inadmissibilit y o f that plea. The Refer right hon. membe r f or O x f or d s hi re I ta k e to b e the re- matron League does not s a y you ought to have divorce verse, and that the discussions have not exhibited one for adultery only, but for adultery and a number of other causes ; and where is the m an w h o w ill ask us to pro unif arn line of progr e ss, b u t a fliietuating, vacillating, c " wahling” mov emen t, i n di cat i ng t h e a b sence of clear teed upon the authority of th e R e f ormat i on L eague to conviction or fixed p r i nci pl es; an d , if t h at b e true, the give divorce for adultery and re f use i t f or those other c multitude of dis cuss i ons e l e w h ere an d the various alto- causes which that authority r ecogn i ses ? T here i s another point in which the framers o f thi s bill h ave overthrown rations are valuatde to show tha t th e p r i uc i p l e i s yet un the authority of the Reformation Leagu e . Th a t p rocee d s solved, and that we go i n t o t h e d e b ate without any as sistance from those who have preceded us, I must also say that this is the fist ti me i n w hi ch the House of rn-Coupon the principle of equality o f r i g h ts b etween the two sexes, and I can only say fur myself that on every occa s MODS has been called on to en t er t a i n t h e su b ject of the sign when the subject under cons id erat i on w i i l adm i t of dissolution of marriage. It is true that commissions have it, I will be here to assert that principle. (Cheers.) It been issued by both houses, and the measure has been is impossible not to do great mischief to begin nose in the discussed by the House of Lords, but that discussion is middle of the nineteenth century to undo for womankind of very little practical importance. According to my that which Christianity has done for it and to say that experience, nothing is practically before the country un- that which shall authr,ris e a man to dismiss his wife al it comes to tee House of Commons. No doubt the shall not entitle the wife to dis m i ss h er husband. (Loud ' bill has been ably discussed in th e H ouse of Lords, but cheers.) If there is one thing more palpable that another the country Ook no notice whatever of these debater , . I in reference to our religion, it is the eeal that God Al am not offering a mere artitrary o pi n i on, but giving the mighty has placed upon the equ a lit y o f man and woman. results of experience. There wer e no petitions sent to the (Hear.) Then there is the question, is a lultery to be House of Lords, nor was any anxiety exhibited out of made a criminal offence ? Besides that and the other do rs, There were, to be sure, a couple of stray pamph- questions I base touched upon, as for instance—are we lets on one side or the other, but, mark, what was the to have one central court only, and limit the facilities for case when the bill came to thellouse of Commons? From divorce to London and its immediate neighbourhood— that day our t Lisle has groaned with an increasing num- comes a whole family of questions when we touch upon her of petitions. In the Lords there was no demonstra- those subjects which we dealt with in the numerous tion on the part of the clergy, but now, sir, there has petition which have been presented to the house. (Hear.) been put into your hands a declaration, which had been It is a much debated point whether we are bound to prepared in 10 or 12 days, which now has the signatures frame the legislation of this house upon the law of of 6,000 clergymen, and is receiving hundreds of addi- Scripture. That is a question upon which I will not Lionel signatures every day. Neither are th ose s i gn i ng o f presume now to enter — it is far too solemn to be die one party in the church, but appear to represent gene- cussed on an occasion like the present—but by this bill rally the views of, the clergy on this subject. Trierefore, we are treating with levity matters which do not belong the fact ins, that it is only when the bill comes down to to our functions. Ido outspeak of the censcienceeof the this house that the country begins to believe that the clergy, or the interest of the clergy. I sp ea k o f th e re matter is really one for le g i s l at i ve enactment, and I must , ligion we profess—(hear)—and I do say it is a matter of say that it is not very difficult to understand why the deep consequence that we should take care that in our country should be sceptical as to these changes in the legislation upon this subject wedo not offer profanation to law ofecclesiastical jurisdiction. Wehavecalled " Wolf" the religious faith we entertain, by dealing with those too often during the last few years, so that the introduc- sacred rites which came down to us with the authority Lion of bills fur reforming ecclesiastical courts and testa- of the Apostles themselves, as we would deal with some aleatory jurisdiction is looked upon as mere formula, to turnpike trust of board of health bill. (Hear.) Among be subsequently as formally withdrawn, and therefore is ail parties in this house, where all classes are represented there a rooted scepticism in the mind of the country. At it will, lam sure, be felt a matter of the utmost diffi all events there can be no doubt but that the last two or_ culty to deal with the religious part of this question. three weeks have given evidence of a strong feeling In Ido not assume that the religious part of the ques the country. Two petitions have been sent to me, one of tion is to be conclusive in governing your proceedings. which says it has been signed by every person of mature Whether it is or is not Ido not say—but you have es age in the parish, and another by every churchman and tablished in this country a system of civil marriage dissenter, Ido not urgs these as a reason why th e bee apart from the special sanction of the Christian religion ; should be rejected, but as showing that there is a feeling whether you choose to introduce as a counterpart of that abroad which should be treated with deep resp ec t by t h e civil marriage a civil divorce and re-marriage, is a ques house and the Government, and that we should take no tion of the utmost importance and gravity. I venture to s tep in such a measure without having taken every pre. say you cannot pass this bill as it is, as regards the caution to enable us to arrive at a just conclusion. The clergy. (Hear, hear,) I make the appeal to the house and right hon. member f r Oxfordshire is accused of dealing the Government. Their own feelings must teach them with the details of this bill. I know not on what ground that some alteration must necessarily be made in the bill nor how he could have taken a different course. He bad in its religious bearings, but I must say we ought net endeavoured to show that there was a mass of work to to be asked to deal with the important question involved be done, and he wishes that we should do it in a work- in this bill for the first time on the 24th July. (Hear.) manlike manner. We must not proceed in a hasty or The right hon. gentleman opposite has been found fault slovenly manner, for we areplaying with edge tools, and with for raising the question of delay. I think be has something perhaps sharper, for we pieroa the heart of taken a wise and a judicious course. He did not wish the country to the quick when we approach such a sub- to commit himself to an entire opposition to the bill, and ject as the law of marriage. I want time to discuss points he proposed that more time should be given for consi of importance, and notwithstanding the anathema of my deration. I may be more opposed to the bill than ho is right hon. friend I must refer to some of those points on on some points, but there are others upon which lam the present occasion, seeing that we are summoned on most anxious to keep my mind free, and I put it to the the 2.lth July, against all precedent, to enter for the first house whether at this period of the session it is not fair time on a a question of first-rate importance. In the first and just to raise the question of time, and to submit fiat place, it must be recollected that the proposal made to us question in a f orm di s tinct and separate from the merits is not only inconsistent with our system of law, but is a of the bill ? In such a form, then, when we go to the proposal to adept a new s y s t em o f law, entirely without division on. the right hon• gentleman's motion, they precedent in the legislation of any country. If the bill would give no vote on the principle of the bill, but gave but two alternatives —one, the indissoluble mar- merely upon lire question whether they ought net to riacze, to which we have adhered since England was have time f or d e lib era tion before they were called upon England ; the other, dissoluble marriage, well to decide u p on a ques ti o n of such delicacy and difficulty. uuderstood, ca re f u ly li m it e d, sustained by the clear au- Mrs BOWYER supported the motion of Mr. Henley, thority of learned mon, a n d th e l eg i s l a ti on o f o th er coun - whic' a he thought roust recommend itself to the wisdom, tries—the ground would b e muc h c l eare d an d simplifi e d ; geed . Bens°, and prudence of the hous e. He had looked but there is not a country which has legislated with a thr: 'u g h t h e bi ll to see w hat it contained, and the result view to make marriage dissoluble which has legislated in was s t art li ng. There was one principle of the bill which the Fame mann er , Te e p roposa l i s nove l, no t on ly t o th e wag.most dangerous, and that was the principle of the English law but to th e l aw o f Ch ris t en d om . It i s on e f or dias o l u bi l i ty of marriage . The bill interfered with th e which we cannot find a p rece d en t i n th e cus tom of any cretninal law. It created a n ew offence. For the first country. No country has ever made marriage dissoluble time that has not made it diss o l u bl e on o th er principles, a n d it Pr' ,posed to make a change i n the ecclesiastic a l juris more largely than you are go i ng t o d o it now. It may b e pro fier=ce of the country, a nd to alter the cat funda said that this is a proof o f y our mo d era tion. Ido not "" aiultery was to be made a criminal offence. Then mast point of ecclesiastical la w as it bore on t he rela dispute the moder a tio n of th e f ramers of the measure, I ' eons of the ' , state. to ea, it altered the civil la w o f t a. l , do not dispute the moderation of the commissioners from property in - regard to the relations between husband and whose recommendations it has emanated. It may be a wife. Again, the bill decide d a most im p ort ant religious proof of th e ir m o d era ti on , b u t I am no t here to b r i e qua t* v . , and that without the means for coming to a ; indictment against them for want of moderation ' g an decision, 2in. ' The bill, he contended, contained matter for 'oil the one hand, or to praise them for model ation on ' ifour bills, each of which would require (he ()t i ler, three d n a ,vr mature deliberation and discussion in reference to its principle as well as its details. But they had all these important matters. affecting the relations of society, the religious feelings of the people, and the criminal and cc cl,4iastical kiriTrudence of the country jumbled togs th( r in one and that brought in on the 21th ,f July. Ile seas quite convinced that all the days remaining of the present session would be insufficient to discuss the details in committee, if they do not wish to legislate rashly and dangerously. He urged upon the Govern ment to withdraw the bill, and reintroduce it early next session. (Hear, hear.) For himself, he obj-cted to the principle of the bill, which he believed to be mischievous and fraught with evil. Before deciding such a question, in whit i the divine law was involved, they ought to assemble the church and consult it on the matter: He thought, in not doing so, they were treating their church (to which he . did not belong) very badly. (Hear, hear.) If they consulted the clergy they would, he believed, see reason to doubt whether they were competent to pass such a measure. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL thought the speeches which had followed Mr. Henley showed the propriety of proceeding to the discussion of the bill. There was but one great principle to be discussed in the bill—the great and important question of the dissolubility of marriage in thin country as a part of the law of the land. (Flear.) Whether that was part of the law of the land, or might be part of the law of the land was the great question to be discussed. That the present state of things was most unsatisfactory no one could doubt. He believed, notwithstanding what was stated in that debate, that the opinion of the country was in favour of legislation on the subject. If evil,: existed in an aggravated shape, surely a bill which was calculated to meet them should be promptly dealt with. He objected to the course adopted by his right hon. friend, in interrupting the Attorney-General when he was about to state the ca,e in favour of the bill ; and his right hon. friend had not only interrupted that exclamation, hut with the skill of a practised member of parliament, he had contrived to send out to the country notions and ideas with regard to the bill which were calculated to enlist an influential class in the country aga net the bill. He admired the skill of his right hen. friend—and he was well followed up by the right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford, especially as regarded the point that the existence of local courts was threatened ; and if that notion got abroad, there wo u ld b e en li s t e d against the measure the influence of all those who were in terested in those local juriseiitions. He thought that was not a fair way of meeting the bill, especially at its present stage. But he (the Solicitor-General) would assert that there was no foundation fur the statement. What was the ground of that statement by his right hon. friend. He said that in three years there were 101 matrimonial suits, and of these 48 had been decided in the local courts. But where they were heard, how they were distributed, who were the parties to them, and whether they were °of the lower orders who it was supposed were to be deprived of the benefit of these courts by the bill, they did not know. But it was said that such was the fluc tuating state of the mind of the House of Lords with regard to this measure, that it came to that house without the weight which entitled it to consideration. Now with all his partialities for the House of Commons, he could not agree with the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone), who had made so light of the discussions of House of Lords on this measure—those repeated discus sions following up the reports of commissions. The right honourable gentleman said that this question had net engaged_ the attention of the country, but he (the Solicitor-General) would say that it had engaged the attention of the c entry for years, and the discussions upon it in the Ilou,e of Lords, supported as they were by great lawyers, assisted by bishops on all ecclesiastical questions—these elaborate and repeated discussions in the House of Lords were not to be so lighuly treated. He trusted the House would not agree in the statement of his right hon. friend, that the mind of the House of Lords was not settled on this question. If the objec tion that there was no time this session to discuss the details of the bill was to be taken, it ought to have been taken after the principle was affirmed by the second reading ; and the motion of his right hon. friend was at least premature. Eveu the points of detail which would require discussion would resolve themselves into a very few, and even the skill of his right hon. friend would not be able to extend them to more than six or seven. He trusted the house would say that it was right that the Attorney-General should be allowed to lay the bill before the house, and then the hon. and learned member for Dundalk might take the sense of the house on its principle. Lord J. MANNERS said that the Solicitor-General and the right hon. gentleman (Sir G. Gre)) had made a matter of accusation against his right hon, friend, that he rose at the moment of which he had given notice in order to meke his motion, and that it was not right in him to have interrupted the statement of the At torney-General. But those hon. members had overlooked the fact, that it was the avowed intention of his right hon. friend to prevent the Attorney General from enter ing into his explanation of the bill. The hon. and learned gentleman said that there was only one great principle involved in the bill ; and admitting for the sake of argument that that was so, yet they who thliu g ht w ith him (Lord J. Manners) said that that principle was so great and important, was so deeply and so nearly inter woven with the feelings of the people of this country, that they could not allow it to be discussed at the fag-end of an exhausted session. The hen. and learned gentle man denied that there was any feeling in the country against the bill, but that if there was any feeling, it was rather in favour of it ; but he would cha'lenge the hon. and learned gentleman to support his assertion by any one petition which bad been presented to either house of Parliament. He (Lord J, Manners) had that afternoon looked over the list of petitions, and he could not find one in favour of the bill—(hear, hear)—while numerous petitions emanating from those who were best entitled to the respectful attention of the house from their station, their ability, and their virtue, had not only been pre sented, but continued to be presented in increasing num bers every day. The hon. and learned gentleman had sal I that his right hon. friend stated that it was impossible to discuss the bill in such a manner as to pass it. His right hon. friend did not say that the government, which was said to possess the most absolute majority in that house since the time of Pitt, could not force this or any other measure down the throats of the house ; but his right hon. friend said that it was impossible, morally and physically, that the measure could be discussed with the care and attention to which it was entitled. The hon. and learned gentleman said that no informa tion had been afforded by his Tight hon. friend with regad to the local courts to which he had alluded ; but wh ose i fault was- that, unless it was the fault of the Govern ment, whose dety it was to be furnished with every in formation on the subject; but it so happened that, in the report of the commission, it would be found that the cir cumstances connected with every one of the 48 cases alluded to were stated. It appears that even the law advisers of the Crown were not prepared, on the 24th of July, fully to discuss this measure which they wished the house to pass. If the Solicitor-General was deficient in information on the subject, it was surely open to members of that house to say that they would not con sent to be dragged at the end of the session into a die cuesion on the most solemn subj -ct which could occupy the attention of a Christian Legislature. Those who thought with him said, take back your bill, and re-intro duce it in another session ; wo do not wish to prejudice it by discussing its principle, but we will not in this way be forced, in the last moments of the session, into the consideration of a measure which the other house had had ample time to consider, and the progress of which showed in the most unmistakeable manner that they en tertained no settled opinion with regard to it. He said , take back the bill, and if they did not , they (the opposi tion) would assert their claim (and he believed they had the power to make good that claim) not to be called on, without due deliberation, to unsettle the l aw o f Ch urc h and State, and the law of marriage, by a measure which was in direct opposition to the r. vealed word of Gad. Lord STANLEY said that it was somewhat curious that those hon. members who asked the house for more time for deliberation with reference to this measure, were precisely those who implied that, as far as they themselves were concerned, all deliberation was super flous. (Hear.) He could understand the opposi tion of those who said that they. had not made up their minds on the principle of this bill, and required time for further deliberation ; but he could not understand those who said that their minds were made up, and that they intended to oppose the bill in every stage, urging that they bad a right for further time for deliberation. They were told that they were now at the end of the session ; he wished that it could be said that they were —(hear)--but looking to the state of the business before the house and up stairs, he thought it would he found that they bad sufficient to occupy them yet for several weeks. Several committees which had been sitting on subjects of great importance had not yet made their re ports.; several others bad not yet completed the evidence before them, while there were still a number of election petitions to be tried, and which it we- not desirable to postpone to another year. However anxious they all might be to shorten the duration of the session, yet their duty to the public ought to induce them to recol lect that there bad been an interruption by two:months of the ordinary business of the year. Then was it or was it not a fact, that this measure had not been before the public for a sufficient time to enable them to form an opinion on it ? He could say nothing of the reports of commissions and committees, for though the subject had been much discussed by these bodies, the result of their discussions might not have passed into the hands of the public. But a bill similar to this had been introduced last year, which had been very fully discussed, and the measure had received a full discussion in the present year, and had been amply considered by the highest authorities in the law and the church, and whatever might be the.ingenuity or skill of debate, he thought it would be difficult for any one to offer any suggestion which had not been considered in another place. The main ressen, however, which he would press on her Majesty's Government for persevering with this measure was, that it was one rather of principle than of detail. That which lay at the bottom of the opposition to this measure was a fundamental difference among members of that hou , e and the public with regard to the theory and the subject of the measure, which declared that one broad prin ciple was in issue, and that was whether by the law of the land marriage should be dissolved in any case or not. That was the broad and general principle, an d it was one on which a majority of the house had already formed an opinion, and it was not likely that that op inion could be much changed by any debates on the question. It wa s neither customary or convenient to go into a detailed discussion of the principles of a bill which was not be. fore the house, but as the subject had been alluded to, be would say one word with regard to the opinion enter tained by the public on this question. It was stated that a number of petitions had been presented, chiefly by the clergy, in opposition to the measure, and on referring to them, he found that the great mass of them turned net so much on the general principle as on one clause of the bill, which imposed a particular duty on the clergy of the church. That was, no doubt, a question for discus sion by the house, but it referred to the detail, and not to the principle of the measure. As to th, first, that the ineeetn.ent in opposiTion t) the measure e as more active than that in suppert of it, that was explainable, simply by the circumstance that the bill hail been tik,m up by the Government, had been passed through that portion of the I,gi,lature where it was supposed to be most in danger, and therefore those who supported it had little fear of fat ore, while those who were opleised to it were stimulated to more active exertions, even by the proba bility that these exertions would be unavailing. Look ing to the business of the session, it was sitar that they had not so much to show for the time which they had sat as to be able to afford to throw away the labour which had already been expended on this bill. Unless this bill and another relating to the ecclesiastical jurisdiction be came law, they would have nothing to show in the way of administrative reform after several months passed in legislation. It was his belief that a large bo ly of persons in the country vvou!il see with regret and disappoint ment the decision of the House of Commons and the Government, if that decision should be to abandon the measure. (Hear, hear.) Mr. NAPIER said if the only question which was to be discussed this session was whether marriage was dis soluble or riot on the ground of adultery, he should be prepared to give his opinion that it it was. (Hear, hear.) There were many members of the Roman Catholic church whese opinions would be most valuable, and he should have been very glad if he had been able to ascertain the views of the bishops and clergy of his own church, and the opinions of his c instituents, whom he was generally in the habit of consulting. The question was a most licate and difficult one ; and Sir James Macintosh, in discussing it, said :—" To make the dissolution of mar riage elks accessible to all is one of the objects to which, in great cities and in high civiiiied communities, it is hardest to point out a sate rule." Now, supposing the bill to pass in its present shape, how would the law stand ? In Scotland, parties who committed adultery were not allowed to marry again. This bill would permit them to do so. In Ireland the dissolubility of marriage was objected to. In England, parties guilty of adultery would be permitted to marry again. To one clause of the bill Ise entertained the strongest objection—he meant the clause which compeled clergymen who entertained con scientious scrup!es on the subject to merry parties who had been guilty of adultery. Such a proceeding woull be towards them an intolerable tyranny, and to that part of the bill he should give his most uncompromising oppo sition. The house was called upon, not to decide on an abstract question, but to consider a great social problem. The measure involved questions of the greatest gravity, and although he approved of a considerable portion of it, he agreed with many men of great learning and autho rity that other portions were extremely objectionable. He submitted that at that late period of their session, when their " days were numbered," the government ought not to press forward the bill, but to let it stand over to ano ther session, when more time could be bestowed upon its consideration. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said from the speeches which had already been delivered he was perfectly con vinced that no set of men were more prepared to discuss the question now under consideration than those members who had already addressed the house. And yet, what was the nature of their appeal ? Give us more time. (Laughter.) Did the right hon. member for Oxfordshire require more time ? Was he ignorant of the subject ! What was the plea of the right bon, and learned gentleman who had just spoken ? " Let me consult my constituents"—who appeared to have been so indifferent to the subject that they had cot even communicated the:r wishes to him. (Laughter.) The right hon, and learned gentleman appeared desirous also of consulting his spi ritual advisers, but how long did he require for the per formance of that great conscientious duty ? Then the noble lord opposite (Lord J. Manners) who protested against having the measure forced down his throat, de cidedly objected to stopping to deliberate and consult, although he was prepared to stop till doomsday to sup port and carry on a dogged opposition as the measure. (Laughter.) These were specimens of the appeals which had been made to the house to put off till to-morrow that which had been called for year after year until there was not a writer, not a jurist, not a foreign obseiv.r of r,ttr manners and constitution who had not pointed out these matters as a blot and disgrace to to them. (Hear.) And yet, because it was the 24th of July the house was called upon to refuse to discuss this important subject of domestic legislation. Now, what was the proper course of proceeding with respect to this measure ? If it had originated in that house, hon. gentlemen would have said it was indecent to bring it forward there for the first time; that it ought to have been submitted to the House of Lords, where the advice of the bench of bishops, and those most campetent to consider the matter would have been obtained. Now that course had been adopted, and the result of the deliberations of their lordships was before the house. He would appeal from the right hen. member for Oxfordshire to the right hon. member for Buckinghamshire—the candour of whose mind he well knew. That right bon. gentleman fiad deprecated the dissolution of Parliament, because it would cause the loss of ayear's legislation. The right hon. gentleman did not desire to be a true prophet in that respect, and her Majesty's Government had done their best to ensure the failure of his prophecy. There was abundant time for deliberation, and he called upon the right hon. gentleman to appeal to his friends not to impede the progress of legislation, but to remain for a short time, to consider the subject. It was not an appeal to new principles. It embraced nothing but what had been known to the law of Eng land for 200 years, Why, he asked, should the house spend its time in deliberating whether it would delibe rate or not 1 If he bad been allowed to proceed, he should have concluded his remarks long before the hour at which they had now arrived. (A laugh.) He was confident that one-half the time which had been given to the discussion of the Testamentary Bill would be more than sufficieot for a full and twist ctory discussion of the principles involved in the present measure, and trusted that they vveuld agree to perform the work of the day, and not in a spirit of indolence postpone its consideration until another session. (Hear.) Mr. MALINS said his decided opinion was that there was not abundance of time to discuss the bill, and that it ought not to be pressed on the attention of the house at that late period of the session. It was quite impos sible to proceed with the second reading at that late hour (half-past 10 o'clock). The debate must necessarily be adjourned—till when ? Monday was bespoken for th, Indian debate, which might occupy more than one night. Thursday was fixed for another great debate—on the Testamentary Jurisdiction Bill. On Friday the esti , mates came on. This debate could not be resumed be ' fora Monday the 3d of August. How long did the noble lord mean to keep them there, with their intellectual faculties subdued and worn out by intense labour and the hot weather ? (Laughter.) Tnero were several com mittees sittieg, and he fearlessly asserted that no man was equal to such intense wore: in the present state of the weather. (Renewed laughter.) This bill had been shown to involve questions of the utmost importance and difficulty, which were sufficient to engage the best energies of the house. It was said that they had the benefit of the discussions elsewhere ; but the measure had. been so often discussed in the other house that the public attention was only fixed on it alter it came down to that house. A document had been placed in their hands, containing the protest of 500 clergymen against the bill. Surely they ought to be listened to on a measure which involved the sacredness of the marriage tie. The House of Lords had devoted two months to the consideration of the bill. He felt overwhelmed with its importance, and was convinced that it could not receive sufficient consideration this year. If they were kept there till October they could not discuss it properly. (A. laugh.) It was said that our existing divorce law was a blot on the statute-book, be cense a rich man could get a divorce and a poor man . could no . . (Hear.) Riches did not produce all blessings, and perhaps it was an advantage to the poor that they had not such facilities for obtaining divorce. (Hear.) He would not be a concurring party to discussing a measure like this in the month of August, and it would not be di-cussed sooner. If the other house devoted two months to the discussion something like the same time would be necessary here. As this was the first time the measure had been discussed in that house, it would be much better to re-introduce it at the beginning of the session, and then it would be seen that the discussions in the other house bad not been thrown away The Attorney-General asked them to abandon their right of discussion because the bib had been fully discussed elsewhere. Seeing the universal feeling in the house against proceeding with the bill—(uo, no)—at all events a most strong feeling on that side the house against proceeding with the bill, he appealed to the noble lord at the head of the Government to withdraw it, unless he could ensure them four or five consecutive nights for its discussion. Viscount PALMERSTON—I must say that the pro ceeding which has taken place this night is one of the the most extraerdinery that I ever knew, and one of the greatest departures from the ordinary proceedings of this house. (Hear.) It is undoubtedly common, %then gen tlemen object to a bill on the second reading, instead of objecting to the principle, or negativing the bill, to pro pose a postponement of the second reading for six months or some shorter period ; but I de not recollect an instance when those who objected to a bill, in-tend of allowing the member having charge of it to state to the house the grounds on which he submits it for their approbation, have stepped in and anticipated the dis cussion, and instead of hearing one syllable of the motive on which the bill is founded, have contended that it must be postponed for a period beyond that to which the ses sion is calculated to last. I say that that is a proceeding unusual, discourteous to those having charge of the bill, and not in conformity with the ordinary practice of par liament. But it is a proceeding which negatives the very grounds that are Lid for it; because, while those who op pose this bill affect to say that they are not prepared to discuss it, and only wish for time, it is quite manifest, not only from the motion itself, but from the speeches by which it has been supported, that they are ag ainst the bill on p r i nc i p l e. A n d muc h f a i rer it would have been, much more honourable to them, and much more in accordance with their real feeling, if instead of a miser able motion for putting off the bill for a m onth, the y bad opposed . the bill on principle and negatived the motion for the kecond reading in the usual way. The pretence that there is not time to consider the bill is too shallow to be listened to for a moment. For whom is that delay demanded? Fur those who wish to oppose the bill, and have not had time to consider it and make up their minds on the subject. Those who have heard the speeches of Mr. Henley, Mr. Gladstone, and Mr. Bowyer, will, I think, be of opinion that they have deeply and maturely considered the matter, that their minds are full of argu ment on the subject, that they are stored with every ob jection that can be urged to the bill, and are as ready now as they could be if 12 months were given them for consideration to discuss the measure on its principle and in all its details. Therefore thatfor them delay is demanded is apretext most futile, and not founded upon any grounds. But is it for the country that delay is demanded, in order that public opinion may be matured on the subject ? Why, we know that the measure has been before the public, not for weeks and months, but for years, and that every man likely to give attentien to the subj e ct has now made up his mind on the measure. (Hear, hear.) But the very arenruents which they use against it dis• vreve their aseeriioe. They tell us there are petitions egeinst the bill from G,OOO clergymen, from every part of the country. (Hear ) Are those petitions, then, pre sented without any knowledge of the bill or considers• tion of its contents. (Cheers.) The only exception appears to be the constituents of Mr. Napier, who have tot thought it necessary to instruct him on this bill, and he has not thought it necessary to ask them what he should say about it. (Great leughtir.) Is the bill new to the house? Does any member who would be likely to take port in this discussion pretend to say that he has not watched the proceedings of the House of Lords on the subject, which have been going on for so long ? Has not the bill been lying a full month on the table of this house, giving opportunity to everybody to examine it with the utmost minuteness, and to makeup his mind as to its principle and details ? And is the bill of such enormous magnitude ? On the contrary, it is comparativel short one, and its provisions are contained in a comparatively small number of clauses. I say, then, that the motion for delay is a shallow pretence,--that those who make it wish to conceal their opposition to the measure under the mask of delay ; and this is a proof that they are conscious public opinion is against them. The country is for some measure of this sort, and the measure is one that ought 0 be considered and deli- berately agreed to. (Hear.) Then Mr. Mains tells us —rising with that power which he possesses, and speak ing with that physical vigour with which he always addresses the house—that our bodies are exhausted, and our minds are prostrated with labour. (Laughter.) Why, sir, the hon. and learned gentleman is a living example to the contrary. He is one of those who are se thoroughly exhausted by the labours of the session that he is totally unable to consider one more bill. (Cheers.) But the honourable and learned member is perhaps anxious to take advantage of that health 'and vigour which we are all so gta 1 to see him possess in some other sphere, and that may account for the impatience with which he is looking to the termination of the session. (Laughter.) But I do trust that the house will take a more serious view of these matters, and will not be led away by appeals to the almanac—that they will not think that one month, or another, is only cap' able of being devoted 0 matters of importance—that they will net be frightened by the names of Jely and August —because this is a measure of great importance to which the country has been looking with anxiety and interest —a measure that cannot be refused simply by telling us that as we are at the end of July, and August is fast al? preaching, we must suspend our deliberations. (Hear, hear.) Tho hon. member asked me how long I propose that the house sit. I would propose that the house should sit as long as may be necessary to dispose of the business before us. (Hear, hear.) I remember to ban sat in this house in the middle of September ; but I do not conceive that it will be necessary to continue the session so long. But I say it is trifling with our .duties and with the great interests of the country to tell us that, because it happens to be the 24th of July, we ar e not able to take into consideration a measure to which the country has been long looking with great anxiety which is of the utmost importance, and which has 10 0 g occupied the minds of men who attend to the considera tion of these subjects. (Hoar, hear.) If this bill Wer e now brought in for the first time, not having been Pr e ' stinted to either house before—if at this period of July we for the first time proposed a bill of such great import; ante, I should admit that the arguments against us wool u be possible. But we are only calling upon the house. , discuss a measure which has been well sifted and di s : cussed in the other hou se . A n d w h en we are t o ld Os' the other house has been unstable, and that they he altered their minds on different details, I say those dt cussions have paved the way for us to consider th o °' points, and have rendered it more easy for gentlemen °1 make up their minds up on th em ; th e arguments are there upon particular pints, and that is a r eason why gentlemen may more easily c ome t o a cone' s ' sion. I do therefore entreat the house not to P r get the high duties imp o s e d u p on it by it s cons tit u teut' t I do entreat them to recollect that we sit here Do merely to consider whether it i s more conven f en t toad' journ on a day in July or a d a y i n A ugus t, or w hethe' , , hot weather er cold weather may be more consisted with the intellectual exertions of the hon. and leases; member for Wal ingford, but to consider that this is., grave and aurione question, and that if we put off tb. measure simply bec a u s e w e d o no t c h oose t o consider if i s the country will thi n k th a t we are neg l ec ti ng our dUtl e o and betraying th e t rus t repose d i n us, an d that the character of this house will suffer materially in: t o/ opinion of the public. (Hear, hear.) I will not 1 3 ° 0 enter into the me r it s o f th e ques ti on . Th e AttoreeJ4 General will be prepared, when be moves the Sedlt reading of the bill, to st a te i n d e t a il a ll th e im porte reasons on which the meas ure i s f oun d e d . B u t let t o g 0 house Lear the ground on w hi c h it i s propose d . n° 00 let the house shrink from th e di scuss i on o f a meas ure t o f deeply affecting the inter es t s o f th e coun t ry . 1, 09 1 . t e all, do not let them sh r i n k from th e s h a d ow o f a pre on which this motion has been s uppo r t e d—th a t we ' s of not time to consider a measure which thos e making 00 objection show that they are fully prepared to disc t o now or any other day which the house may chooie appoint. (Cheers.) The house divided, and the numbers were For the postponement l3O A g etiumt it Lord PALMERSTON said that at thi s ti me o f n ;g o it would hardly be fair to his hon, and learned friend 4 to the house to go on with the second reading to•Dir, j His hon. and learned friend would naturally wish ; state at some length his view on the subject, and Oter o fore he proposed t o t a k e th e secon d read i ng t h e first Thursday. Mr, MALINS asked whether he was to un derstsb. that the Probate and Administrations Bill would not proceeded with on Thursday? ld Lord PALMERSTON said the government No t o take this bill first on Th urs d a y, an d th e P ro b a te Bt.t` Friday. The second reading was accordingly postponed. ILLICIT DISTILLATION (IRELAND) BID h ot Toe house the n wen t i n t o comm itt ee on thi s bill, 0 1 1 when a few cl auses h a d b een gone th roug h , a ft e r rs discussion, the Chairman was ordered to rep progress. SUPPLY. The report of supply was brought up and receivecl ai 4 , CANADA. AND NEW BRUNSWICK B° _ _ DARIES BILL. • This hill was read a third time and passed. COUNTY COURT JUDGES' SALARIES BL- - LL, This hill was read a second time. OATHS VALIDITY ACT AMENDMENT B- of Mr. J. A. SMITH postponed the second r eadia this bill to edesday Ilex% The house adj n ourned at twenty minutes to two o'6- Cduntry Markets. LIVERPOOL—JULY 24. The few millers and dealers at our Corn Exchang e s' morning were earn es t b u y ers o f w h ea t f or th e passingas e l sumption, and ma d e a f a i r b us i ness at th e full Pit ;,' ,l Tuesday last. In some instances an a lvance of ld '°o 01 3 per bushel was sanc ti one d . F lour was b etter, and P'" o well sustained. I n di an corn, b eans, an d peas each c ol/ manded full quotations. Barley is not yet in favoill, Aet our miller.% Oats and oatmeal dull of sale, but no. 1 ° in price. WAKEFIELD—JULY 24. Fine fresh qualities of English wh ea t were in fs;_.-,. s eso mf.rd at is per qr. decline, but th ere was more firm" than at the Leeds market on Tuesday. Other kinds . t is' difficult-to move. Oats, bean s , an d ot h er articles w er" changes'. Average prices of grain—Wheat, 65s —d ; 6 ,1; Od ; oats, 31s —d ; beans, 463 —d ; peas, 409 rye, —S. Od. EXETER—JuLY 24. 6 t l I CORN.—Wheat, 78 Od to 7s 6d ; barley, 5s to 6 ° 64* grinding do., fh Od. to Os Od. Oats, 3s 4d to 3 ° Beans, FLOUR. Os Od to 0 Od. Peas, 00s Od to 00s Od. 4 4 —Fine, 44a Od to 46g Od ; seconds, 42s Od to Od. per sack. CATTLE. —There was a small supply of bullocks. ig et beef, from lls t o ll s 6d p er score ; i n f er i or , 9 s Gd ta-l' to score ; fat calves, 5d to 6d per lb ; barrenners, Os Od Od. per score ; cows and calves, 121. to 201. us ; but ch b; calves, Oct to 7d per lb., rearine calves —s to -- e 1 ' 0. 9 3 sheep, ewes and lambs, 21. 5s t o 31. 5 s p er cou ple; evi e rig o o to 6d; wethers, Gd 60; lambs, 74 to Od per lb. A large size, —s to —s ; second size, -s to —s ; slips' to —5 ; suckers, —s to —s. Rough fat, qi Pe r Pork carcases from 10s 6d to 103 10d per score. Ad BIRTHS. OF A SON. tr • On the 23d inst. the wife of Edmund Frederic k 9 , Cane Es, of th Royal Eineers. 6 On , q. 3 the 2d inst. e at Marlow ng House, Kingston-on- 110e Mrs. Thomas Rolls' Hoare. OF A DAUGHTER • aio On the 24th inst., in Queen Ann street, Cal ° square, the wife of William Acton, Esq. A. On the 24th inst., at Kensington -gate, )Sirs• Thomson. MARRIED. Oli (ef At St. Anne's Church, Alfred Downes, son 115 y ; Henry Davis, Esq., of Kennington -park, to G e orguThrev bells, only daughter of Frederick Thynne, Esq., , G eo rge-street, Westminster. Af On the 23d inst., at the chur c h o f St. Stephen -Georg e tyr. Avenue-road, Arthur, second son of the late vc io, Robins, Esq., to Mary Ja ne , e ld es t d aug hter of.X, g ent' ll Pod Colville, Esq., of St. J ames ' s t erra ce, •P'" park. D ED. On the 2:3d inst., Mr. Samu4 Pickering, of in street-square, city, an d 2 , U pper Sussex-place, Old roadn the , aged 53. dello O 23(1 inst. at New Court St. Swithi n, Robert Stewart Flemyng, Esq. On the 23d inst., at Glocester-road, Old Broil: 1 0 °P ' John Rosser, aged 68. n uestl t ' On the 21st i ns t., at Stowmarket, Joseph -" s r - Soold" . Esq., Alde rman an d J.P. for the coun ty town 0 " . ,011 4 ' arnpton, aged 51. ' Oa the ' 20th inst., at 6, Strand-terrace, Os mustoo be Derby, Mr. George Miles, late of Ilatton-garden ;fe o f On the 17th inst., at Bordeaux, Marguerite, v", 09`,,{ Rev. F. Martin, of 9, Upper Seymour-street vics",;10011 N ' rk and minister of the French Protestant Cl London. .. -.....e................m0ura-www...a....................r.'",----- ~ -v- 01 4(4° LoYDO.I; : Printed and Published hy AIURDO .. " - nio I 4 °' of No, 112, Strand, Printer, at The Su" ° ,,,:c0 '1133/ 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Saver, in °h a Middle:ex, Saturday, July 25, 1851. th( is VI, rend well rub' In on Two, tion, allinc ' Scurf In the ing is Mend( 1 4 1 b Solt tb lustre, 1( 8. r, ( Cali Latins and th Sold arner, E the Ye At a liankir ebarle LiNvar M.P. John A Ceor,. ;e 'Villa' aerial]] Wiflint The itfterw, het t 26,131 visi on Th e Pest h for the rac /do Fifa after Al oil N ad a b I) 3:le, Thi gUard Fol, bond, and chant and P The S. It Rea Chatr i Chair' Res 11„, ,The ,a.....ee It e.s th e 'were but bp r Cok, carfit -431, ,lei Balar an, in g raa i an tills tie, Stro p Pre Di v 4 for air bivi4 thi 1413 tala Bala bE! cent iner. 011 fl Priel