The Sun. — London, England, 1847-01-20 00:00:00

assed war, , n the .ssing gat to A saY ~a ce ; ,f the ~..09 ilcatl i d s b li e a n b !i tte ." - IT ------ air...d v. 7 herih: had the proper documents ltessions °f tl but . ith the view of replyipg to one or two ex 'ldeseryett t he Neble Lord, whieh he thoug,ht were rather part of the Government. It had not been measures of relief were brought forward, . ) , t t e 't d ' wilco w°t would have 14 , and " I '' have teen that extraordinary demand for to tatt a m that extraordinary precipitancy' which led to the t i' l l '' ' '''',"," herainde undertaking of works manifestly . use- , n tr , d b ro: t iu h e e eti the measure he repudiated e t , ,i et tha u heeate.diohoeuttle.n.dertneake seless, instead of useful work, tensidered that roads could nut 1 ,% to i rn ° I as useless. The object was to give employment, isisobilinrdertparkoev%heee.ountry, as also to stimulate the landlords i 'Lor di d improvement of their own estates. The deg h i _ .. not question the Act of Lord Besborough, who, lto per , e uusell in the House when the Act was pissed, thought IsinO.,,,exterid the Government advances to those who might lead to to undertake works of another kind He was also ~. eereei,,, that th Noble Lord didapprove of the o roety of e ritt a l ter . aseetrem og i f Is 15 ration, _Parliatment to give legislative effect to He egreed with him that the resilient gentry ires e ' oe t e 'd were much better employed in Iceland, where their t l se to was so necessary to encourage, to regulate, at, to Promote employn'ient - and he had no hesita ttee e , sa)ing that' had ' they riot been present, ilso i " e uld . tut have been tii:tt alleviation of the it iii that"hwhiri their prese.nce caused. But the Noble Lord I thith F,, c , was net prepared to disapprove r f the measure tb eOt th ' i • : '` l ale , te's Government intt tided to bring forward to 'Illesto; 'tale of chines. He did cot intend to go into the (in" " °I the refits; which would attend the removal of the tot o O n the importatio n i t f ore i gn corn , hut the question was 411 44 7 ° the profits lay, but what would add to the amount of trot o e' °( lntider the most terrible visitation which the country Ile ne '' i n'ased. No coneitiera•iou of the kind would ever in the f nirn- uot even if 'every shilling went into the pocket of of t ' li rei go grower. Did the - Noble Lord not know the state l 'llat et e . e country, He was not ;Isbell - led to say that k,ent, IF , flti ght be the wisdom of the Leeielature in its he f ore ut i l erto, end whatever might be its wsdom, either t er ( or sin ce the late Corn Ac, he mould stand by it, if it I,o oo 'nlY for the purpose of bringing 100,000, 10,000, or even 11,0,4 in of corn into this cOuntry. The mass of the t ed t t ° in Ireland were dependent on the potato for support, s iotild ua t t having failed n during the last two or three months, it pi t ttt ° ‘ e impossible to feed them, wilhout an increased with alleviate the sufferings of five or six millions of people. e tii ," t reference to the introduction of sugar into distilleries, he ti roe s ,,Y that it would be a permanent measure. At the same the measure, believ e d that when the Noble Lord came to look at to " s ure, he would tied that it had been made with a view alwaysbenefit the revenue ; and, at the same time, it would riot I n oel. be the interest of the parties to employ sugar instead of With regard to the navigation laws, that would t b th at . e a permanent measure ; but still, he thought it would be for the interest of the country 15 r • L e h, e Cr've corn as France did, viz., from vessels not Rioel'ging to the country, or to the country in which corn was t ,"ns Ile, therefere - ' tru:ted that they would not immedi ately 'LI' 4 laws ' the ‘ I • •.ion on the importation of „._ into _ppm. the on r . t s i•lc. wish „„i' s. this country. Ile did not .to enter upon the ce tion as to whether or not the Goaer t nm th , nt st r a n t i e gt , i ): t I n re o - t 1 : 11d, prcvid r V d so a n e better was, tom ena,seuerteishtios question shortly. But . h,' Could pre not help entering upon the question, as it had been :bided to by the Noble Lord When the Noble Lord (Stanley) h ad brought political economy to bear on this s ub j ect, he was bri nging g‘ this science forward in its most vincible point. lie h nl e tt glit; unr!cr all the circumstances , he m.s t re p eat what s tated, chat the Gover nment Lad bad already . the cout se they had pursued. It tta acted i w'sely e in that they could nut purchase enoogh of grain,sstateo, . but 11. 1 i 1 ;t " t: ' ,e e y z, would endeavour to equalise and regu latei the supply in such a on av as to produce the least possible the and it would hereafter be his duty to state to - ee Rou te the ; manner and the extent to which depots were et:Latilv,ishied under that proinise There was one other point t q n. 1 :eh he wished to . toucl . ; before he sat down, namely, l ','% . irit winch related to the recentproceedings in foreign ~,`,t , ; His Nob . e Friend opposite ail eeemed to assume that :"' n . chance in the Ministry , a , change , in the foreign policy Ass brought about. But his .Nobie Fri tid was ‘ mistaken. The Z to l.l o policy of the present Government was identical w'th lb of her Al • - Przuodeui:enti ajesty's late i advisers, . and hereafter he vrotaid documents connecter. , wtt_itthe subject, which would taatters y . satisfy their Lordships that, in ee r i ts i lation to foreign guided by the , a __ ~. the present Government had b Ile did not wish to ta n'el principles as those of the former. , oi ,_ ' , lily other use of pursuedm ex , ca i lit, to vindicate the he admitted that rt ~__Leys government had ; and, t hought tnecessary for the peace and w w e ' ,fa e t r t e ie of Europe, he breach of a treat the recent proceeding involved Il e Y which ought never to be reliuqulshed. —( Hear, he h ar.) , wished to suggest to the Noble Lord that the less t ere liCj f angry debate on this subject, the more speedily were they hopedeto come to a termination, more happily, it was to be ou l o t to resume that feeling which from year to year, he se ' , a) front day to day, he hoped to see paramount ; he " a o ti ul f d b e glad to see such a feeling established on a firm and i t" ' a ct°ry basis.— (Cheers.) In the present state of the na te'', and even after what had happened, he was not prepared tied rY that even then there was any impediment to a good wht e r L ' tan thng with the Government of France in any object H e ' n ight be useful to the one country or the othei. I.olls_felt it necessary to say this after what had 13eot n ti from the Noble Lord, and he did not ex can, ' a t Ile would seek to administer an amount of pain or lauzirsa r t e l to any Member of the Government, for such 'ilea might have passed having done so, it was b e ea, e that the further consideration of this matter should a nd f r r lied on in such a manner as to give no offence to another Oth er t e t t i '.dlY cauntry. ,requiredli riot know that there was any "t he Non'g on which he to observe in the speech q ue , tio hie Lord. He did hope to be pet mitted when these tie eted il w s it Zate before the House, to go into the facts con the affairs Ireland, and more particularly into the question of d the, count,rya,n(tiohe : . l s ' au ti r , a e nc an to l th e e n n t, theese questions felt that it would be due to this give the utmost attention to the which the Nirbl e Lord had given this night, that came to he submitted to Parlia f:Cebc;itiQa:hi4.:4:inlttoePri:at:lttorrii°. t his ~inatsentaionareto offer them any . might be introduced would in some degree interfere with that the measures , but when submitted to their Lordships they N'': 1, 1 1 (1 , Letritere the greatest co-operation on the part of all spi r i t t ° da, they would require to be considered in a c ordial tin e eff n e( e .t rder th2t their aim anti end mcglit be fully carried ‘ ' ll eti he • But he besseed to be further un lerstood, that rc,,, tp 'Poke of interiering with certain interests he did not *le o , s-aY that the right.: of iroper'y, the preservation of „ tar is niviolate, formed the ve l • best . ' safe-guard for public Idt a v t a a ral s te a apg n i l o s ta yl e,ii, o ,.3 :•d er should be allinjured,because the at]d ,, eonlusioi: a OUld te gstve an undue was h i , r ciss at the w expense ot the other. lon s , intention on Monday next to move for . tje at i ; a ,r,.,:s,: :.. Ot . t which Cu) found sonic measures . which her `leere e the distress considered might ameliorate in a great L ord ,,,,T,s ) teess at present prevailing in Ireland. ie_,re.ri seamatittilnUtin AM . sa i irl, that in hisex i perience of thirty etslasure h . inperla Parliament he tld not recollect the Ind th e (so, : have tnet, and the Crown to have addressed them, ly neeessar e grave s o t. : ,„, anz ninent to have come together, under circum importance than the present. It was arid ~,„._ yto mention Ireland to bid all agitation cease, remarks which th o e ut,d" ln Y a l° e lne rin of .r n o.. ar g chy to be hushed into silence. He to their Lordships it.sions of cordiality or moderation in lie should feel it necessary to address ooditma in which that evening, for they were now in that speech on the one side was for " " i ndt y, which ‘.. .esin g the utnwst . was . met by a speech on the o t _ 7 ,1 11 a differen t is hi • cordiallty, yet, at the same time, . filled madethecralleinxg ivreading himself neon rit. He owed an apology, perhaps, for In ,n, t in , ek :, _ I,ton their notice at all, but he conceived, ' , rust 0 , or.e ';`. ‘ s d hke this, when party animosities should be that it was the deli; and th e , good of the empire only considered, Power, to lay 0 1 2- , ° ,`,! o rry man, to the utmost extent in his ceivett were fur th' things before the country which he con- . grou n d e country's that It benefit. It was simply on that aPide th ey , ordin e a now st ood forward. Ile wished to lay before he proccederyd 4 1 "P ir 's which lay immediately in his way estrous, ,-,,,,ii ion of ,0 consider the lamentable, not to say l o i , a- . ot be satisfied withthe sister kingdom. Though he _mitr.", . not altogether the measures of the Govert.ment, he ettO r bla happened, he did 7 them for their policy, but, as events had d straw, had the In net know that it would riot have been Hee- Nueeived that )t'sin met for business at an earlier period, could h e eas ,, , - Impoliey of the measures of the Ministry Act Wa . ~ 11) ase ertained,--lirst, that the Irish Labour .rate Li ent ' lound to be a great failure;• , enant had confirm ' Uouehere's I trona thatthird, that . r. M La ru,ey whidetter ed it ; and, lastly, that the million of . Derativ e , ' i W. 49 voted last session was found to be quite ino nos meta „ All this was a ground of regret that they had Prse ent ,little earlier, when those disasters might have been hi 'd• tie differed f , that sat beside • rn th e , fs .otn the Noble Lord h rts op en . ~_ at', that he (Lord Brougham) would have t e po th e e i e wut he woeld concede to that Noble Lord, that under - o canoe - they had only i s. , aw, when wheat rose to sOi. a quarter, the, had duty to pay ; whereas, under t corn -l a w , he new corn th ~ 45 . to pay. Under these circumstances, g hay the Ports ought to be opened. Agreat deal ofdiscussion take n 1 of , ~ . . hati o I , ace, in consequence their relations with foreign be te ," being endangered by the policy pursued by a neigh _•nicg, nation ; anti it was B in hallege tat the people of ass ' ur country felt deeply interested the matter. He i take ed their Lord-hips there could be no greeter mis „:, lie believed that the wives and daughters of this e°— “l'Y cared as much *out for these royal marriaees as they i d tor one in Le Verriers' newly discovered panet, if the inhabitants • eintants there married, or were given in marriage. He i /iould farther remind their Lordships that when one of the mo st politic monarchs, who ever sat upon the English throne, t et,g r eat William, had embroiled the country with a conti nental Po wer, leading to a campaign unequalled in the annals °'; British history, until excelled by the most splendid victories of the Noble ;nil Gallant Duke who sat beside him, the great Marlborough was obliged, through the apathy of the ' r°Ple of this nation, to retire from a cou ntr y which he had ' greatly glorified, lie was well aware that the sam e apathy p. evaded on the continent as in this country. A good understanding was always valuable to the people of both countries, and that it ought, therefore, more to be encou raged, The breach, therefore, that had taken place was deeply to be lamented, because the good understanding that had. pre viously existed, was the precious oil which relieved the friction I of the m ac hi nery w h ere the i nterests o f t h e two natians came in contact with each wher. in teed, these centacts became points of friction, and the preservation of the entente cordiale was of intititte valu e ; b ecause, as he had said before. it was the obvious means of relieving the friction, andpreventing collisions. He lamented that any thing should heyeti dto pit any thin in the way of the continuance or tha't happened understand ing the ruption would be much shorter than was anticipate& being, thoroughly con vinced of its utility, being, thoroughly persuaded, of his personal knowledge, of the great desire and ardent wish which pre vailed in France, that the best poisible undemanding should ' once more be established between the two countri es and he fully expected that nothing would hereafter occur to prevent such a consummation.—( Hear, hear.) Nl'ith regard to the I threatened delettes upon this subject he did hope and trust they would have none, because while it could tend to serve gin , 0 ,,a e. .d or purpme, debating the subject Wright very possibly have • , the effect of diverting their attention from more preying measures or plans for alleviating the distress and sulT2ring of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted, therefore, that he should hear no more of the subject. The I -lerstAra in, i' , had, ie fact, mile been broken up in 'e gook un, tone ant in substance, and, if the nia' ter were dropped, things would s oon resume t h e ir furnace aspect.—( Hear , hear.) Per -lal's their L o rd e inis would now permit him to say a 'ew owrds welt regard to Cracow. Now, they stood 00 a different foot iu ,, towards Russia than to F r ance , 410 t Ihe M in i s t er of '' the day was not justified in ‘ 1 ' 1 "1:( strong exprcs-ions towards the former without he was p repared to irillow it up with teher steps. But on no oc casitio ought a Minister to use language of vituperation to wards another state, wiles he were prepared to go further. It !" not Oily the duty, but, under certain circumstances, Go ',en-intent was batted to protest agetrist particular measures of a foreign power. The Sleeeeh, in fact, in the pres ent case did rates its a proper tone against the recent proceedings of us s i a - , Prussia and Austris, with regard to Poland. He ' considered the proceedings were not '-.6 I even by the de ene justi e. . .e set up for them ; becauseeven eosin , Cracow to be s , sup . tile dung, h a d - , 7 stat e i t had been represented to be, thes e Powers no right to take she , • into their own lae handl. Fnelet I I France ' ' and before penaltythe 'r' a r l if ( t of nations ougl tto ll' was he-n.) l Next to - h,11,,,, hel to si l o with the t,ri qu d est t i b on e , t . .. , a b . ;,., , res bon ten appe l l a.eo to on the subject. — (Hear, with prance it mitt:taller 6 g to b e law i , a God understanding was of the if most importance for this upon terms of amity with Au t . country Austria. —(Hear, ria.—(Hear, hear.) The THE SUN, LON DO N, WEDNESDAY EVEN IN G, JANUARY 20, 147. .• p( , ,r !It n i on with respect o f ish re cat cattle,to sal , and subsequently meat.bsequ fromntlythre Ireland.w as a H si e milstr i,o was therefore inclined to think that there was a large pecuniary debt due from England to Ireland.—( Hear.) He trusted that the measures that would be proposed would be d that large character that would meet all the difficulties that existed in that country. The Marquis of WESTMEATH— There was no country in the world that had a larger stake in agriculture than Ireland. Notwithstanding all this, his Noble Friend had just said he trusted that Government would not adopt his advice. The remedial measures which had bees proposed were entitled to respect, but he trusted that the condition of the country would not be put on merely vague premise!. The Ear: of RODEN would take the present opportunity of saying a few words. He could very well enter into the feeling of the Noble Lord who had drawn such a picture of the wretchedness of the Irish people.—an amount of wretched ness that harrowed up the feelings. In the course of one week the whole food of the people of that country was de stroyed. Tho people of England felt acutely the state of the people of Ireland, and of this tie had every day's experience to prove. He must agree with his Noble Friend when he blamed the Government for having agreed to the Labour Act. The answer that had been given to that was, that Government was not aware of the extent of the calamity that prevailed in Ireland. He could not omit referring to one circumstance that was of great importance to Ireland, and that was her being governed by a native. He would not be doing justice to that nobleman if lie did not state that he was doing all in his power to meet the distress of that country. He (the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland) was acquainted with the Irish character, and was, therefore, qualified to give the Home Council the requisite ad vice, and enable them to adopt the necessary measures, and carry them out in the most judicious manner.—( Hear, hear.) There were many other points to which the attention of the House might be profitably called; and if his services in contri buting towards any beneficial measures were necessary, he would afford them with the greatest pleasure.—(Hear, hear. ) He had heard of the foulest aspersions on the character of Irish landlords. He was in the habit of meeting these gentle men from day to day, and he admired the self-devotedness with which they gave of their substance to support the poer around them. He said to these good men, "Go on, and the truth may yet dispel the clouds which ignorant minds have cast around you." Earl HARDWICKE proceeded to show that it was in the power of Government to send any quantity of corn to supply the Irish people if they could only get shipping enough to convey it. For instance, a few days ago there was in the pert of Li verpool wheat, oats, barley % pease, &c., equal to 204,903 quar ters of wheat, sufficient to feed 2,500,000 persons sor the period of one month. In the port of London ho found 175,257 quarters, sufficient to feed 2,100,000 persons for a month. In Glasgow, 245,776 quarters, which was sufficient to feed 1,700,000 persons for the same period, making a total of 4,625,936 quarters, being equal to the consumptionof 6,300,000 persons for a month, or 2,100,000 for three months. After a few words from Lord AUCKLAND, Lord STA NTEY said he wished to ask the Noble Marquis the Lord President of the Council, whether besides laying upon the table on Monday next the papers connected with Ire land, and stating the plans Government were prepared to adopt for remedying the existing evil, he intended to take the sense of the Ilouse upon those plans. If the Noble Marquis did, it would be exceedingly inconvenient. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE replied in the negative. The sense of the Home would not be taken upon the Govern ment plan till it came up from the lower House. The address was then agreed to, and the Earl of SHAFTES BURY, together with the Mover and Seconder nominated to present it to her Majesty. Their Lordships then adjourned. policy of England was beund up in !he existence of such terms of a mity, but the same necessity dal ;lot absolutely exist with Tt regal d to Prussia. Still, tiowever Prussia was more to blame than either of the ether 'goat - erre raeow, no doubt, was cbjectioneble to Russia, but how to t undcould tand. so to Prussia he was at a lossersbe Russia, however, required tke extinction of Cracow, and Russia consented to it, but it %tout., have earned itself more glories and more respect had it stood aeainst the plan. He esteemed the abilities of the ruler ot Austria, and the learning of the Ring of Prussia, and yet he believed that they would do much by the establishment of free and liberal institu tions in their several states to blot out the stain upon their national character, which the Cracow proceedings had cast upon them. The Noble Lord who moved the address,alarmed them by describing the alterations in the Laws ot Property, which the new measure for relieving Ireland would bring about, but the Noble Lord did not go very fully into the subject, because he omitted to say any thing about local c ourts, arid sueh tribunals.—( Hear. ) Now it was important that this b ranch of the subject touched upon by the Noble Lord should be deliberately considered by their Lordships; but he was very much afraid they would not have the opportunity of making ameralments or alterations in it, and he would tell their Lordships why. They would have to agree to the measure whether they approved of it or not. The coca s ire would be made a money Bill, and how could their Lord ships, in the existing state of things, refuse to sanction it ? ( Hear, hear.) To obviate this difficulty, if the House of Cone :eons did not wish to monopolise the collective wisdom of the country, the plan should be agreed to in the shape of resolutions, and he was convinced neither the other House of Parliament n r the country would have cause to regret such a course. Their Lordships had not so much to do as the other House, and they had therefore more time for discussing and improving such measures.—( Hear, hear. ) Their Lordships ought to be careful that a line— a broad line—was drawn between measures intended to be per manent, and those of a mere temporary character, passed aid agreed to, to meet a momentary e xpediency, or a passing evil. Surely their Lordships ought to have some power of discussing all these measures, because, come up to them in whatever form they might, in the present state of things, they could not be rejected. But measures agreed to in a time when sufferings of the most heartrending desc , iption pervaded the land, rendered the more heartrending, because more touching the patience —the almost inimitable patience with which it seemed to be borne—where scenes of suffering and misery were being enacted daily, the parallels of which were not to be found even in the pages ef f hutstiideS, on the canvass of Poussin, or in the dismal chant of Dan e, could never be inten , tect to be permanent, and, therefore, it was, that he urged wpon their Lordships the urgent necessity of taking care that. no perma nent measure should be agreed to in times so har rassing and exciting. The importance and necessity for this caution, was fully proved in the case of the Labour-rate Act. That measure had failed ; there was net one man out of a hundred who agreed to it last year who was not now prepared to surrender and give up its benefits. That measure was passed in exciting and distressing times to meet a momentary emergency, though still intended to he perma nent and it had Tai ed. Ile rusted, therefore, a •trict line would be drawn between measures of a permanent character and those only intended to set ve ternporar, purposes. In proof of the evil results of hasty measures, he would refer to the Bill passed in Air. Pitt's time, in the year 1797, relating i to cash payments. That was intended to be a tem_po cry nea sure ; but how long did they think it lasted? Wny, it con tinued for three-an I-twenty years, and its hasty repeal then was nearly as mischievous as the Bill itself. Let them take rare, therefore, that their temporary measures would not be productive of the same results. The present evils under which they laboured were bad enough, but he was very much afraid that the next year's crop would be also sadly deficient. The Labour-rate proceeding had taken away the labourers of the land, and there had been no attempt to raise a crop for the coming year He deprecated, therefore, any rash legislation on the subject, for he believed that ilisadvised measures would cause a greater amount , f evil than they were intended to cure. With regard to the absentee landlords, he differed widely from his Noble Friend who moved the address. Gene rally speaking, an absentee landlord hail a good agent who filled in a great degree the duties of the absentee owner just as well as if he himself resided it the country. He was not disposed to think that the Irish absentee landlords acted in a different manner. Lord H ATHERTON—My observation did not apply to the large proprietors. The great mass of the Irish absentee land lords are small owners. Lord BROUGHAM—Then where did they live? He could not believe that they had been so neglectful of their duties as had been represented. lie would, at all events, hazard one observation, that nothing could be more dangerous, or more calculated to entail misery upon the Irish people, than to in duce them to believe that when in a state of destitution they had a claim upon the imperial revenue. He believed that to inculcate such doctrines would prove fatal to industry—ruinous to the future interests of the country, and superinduce a thoughtlessness and extravagance totally indescribable. It would be most particularly mischievous to the Irish people, who were so sanguine in their hopes, so confident in their delusions, and who easily relapse into their habits of indolence. They were not to judge of the Irish labourers by such of them as visited England to cut down the harvest, for a better class of labourers he never saw. He could undertake to say that they never took a chicken along the whole i ourse of their journey, and they worked extremely hard, and endured great privations during their stay. But that was not the character of the labourer in his own country. Therefore nothing ought to be done to induce him to suppo.e that his wants were ready to be supplied by the Treasury of the empire. Let them have advances by loan, but let care be taken that it be properly appropriated, usefully applied, and the interest paid, and the principal repaid by the parties who obtained it, and who were locally benefited. He did not think that any Government, however strong, would dare to make such a proposal to the English people, and he could not conceive a more frightful scene than would he dis closed if two or three millions were given in this way. Among the various strange statements which from time to time came front that country, as proof of the evils of the con nexion, was one from the Right Rev., or he should rather say the Archbishop, M•Hale, to the effect that pensions, to the amount of sixty millions, had, during the last half century, been imported into this country, but he forgot to state that they had been all paid for.—( Laughter. ) Hr presumed it was some such consideration of this kind which induced one authority to ask for the present distress , forty millions and ano ther sixty millions. He objected to any gifts of the kind. Let ,he money advanced to help them be paid hack, both prlncip.il and interest. 't hat was the only security they could have for the ultimate good of the Irish people and the prevention of those evils which now distress the coun try. He considered the present contributions in this country for the relief of the distress in Ireland were chiefly valuable as indications of the good feeling of individuals, and he had rio language to describe the naked atrocity of a charge, contained in one of the Irish papers, to the effect that the money was sent over to make converts to the Protestant religion of the starving population. Nothing so false as that ever before came under his notice. Many excused themselves from contributidg on the ground of the payments into the savings banks of that country, and the subscription to what was called the "rent," but these subscriptions were paid by one class, and the misery endured by antehet. They should see when the time arrived what the measures were, which the Government intended to propound. But with regard to what had been stated by the Noble Lord behind him (Stanley) in reference to depots of supply, he begged entirely to dissent. Cases might arise in singularly circumstanced countries where such a course might be deemed advisable, but anything of the kind on a large scale, such as was contemplated, would, he conceived, be exceedingly dan gerous and prolific of evil. With respect to the financial affairs of the country, it was well known that great sums of money had been employed in railway speculation. He be lieved that in a short time upwards of 6,000,000/. had been employed in this country upon various railways. He hap pened to know that in France it was the same thing. They had their financial crisis, anti the Bank of I' ranee had gone down to 2,000,000/. He now told them that even if they had sent for corn to foreign markets, and sent goods to purchase it for their own distresses, they would not get it for anything but gold and silver. And it was the same with France. In the event of any interchange of commodities, and the blessings of such an interchange would be felt by the whole country, the Bank of England would not feel it necessary to keep their dis counts raised to a quarter per cent. But they had done it in consequence of the Bank of France, Supposing the Amer:- cans were to say that they would allow their corn to be p. r chased without paying bullion for low they could not purchase it, foe the goods were not ready ing to the bad state of trade. The manufacturers had not shaped their supplies for any foreign demand, and that was in consequence of the Go vernment sending fifty or sixty millions into the market and destroying private speculation. He did not mean to under rate the exertions that had been made for the people of Ireland or the sympathy felt for the people, but he felt it to be his duty to mention these evils which it was asp sible to put down by legislation. Facility should be given for the cheap transfer and conveyance of land, with a due regard to the interest of the next heirs. He would conclude his remarks by apologizing for the length of time which he had occupied, and he would ask the judgment of the House whether he had not kept a promise, one, however, which he had never made.—(Laughter)—of not entering on any offensive or invidious topic. Earl FITZ WILLIANI said that he felt extreme satisfac tion at what had passed in that House during the course of the present debate ; and he trusted that the tone of the other House would correspond with what had taken place the re, for he was sure, arid he had the strongest opportunity of observing, that there had existed in the minds of the English public an incredulity with reference to the existence of distress is Ire land, which he trusted would be removed. The obsetvatioas which had fallen from many Noble Lords in the course of the present conversation, but more particularly in the moving and touching speech delivered by his Noble Friend who had seconded the Address—( Hear, hear)—and he trusted that notwithstanding the low tone in which that speech was de livered. every word of it would, in some way or other, and its way out of doors, and sink into the minds and hearts of English p, ogle; or, if they had riot felt as much alive on this subject as he had, he trusted it would excite in other minds noire sympathy for the distress of their brethren in Ireland. There was, unfortunately, on this side of the channel, a dis position to incredulity of everything that hapi ened on the other, He entirely agreed with his Learned and Noble Friend, that there had not commenced a session of Parliament in the recollection of those who now sat in it under circum stances more awful than those which now presented t oc he cam selves to their consideration. There was on the present sion something worth thinking about, and worth the while of every man who had a mind capable of thinking, to turn all his energies, in order to devise what, could be done for that country. It was no common problem they had to solve , and depend upon it, it was net by small or ha lf measures the M y could think of staying the calamity. — ( Hea r, hear.) Measures had been proposed, as far as he had been able to collect them from her Majesty's Speech, and as tar as he could collect them from his Noble Friend with respect to all these miseries. He had nothing to say to them as far as they went, except that he approved of them. But whether they would go to the or w f h u e l l length, c t he r r i gt`hhe,yo wereup to capableth e full of theof those calamities , prohlem t e he solved by legislation, he could not pretend to say. The question of wh eo ic ot h in h g e to en a te so rt u a o i d :o entertained waswasonedesirouson must consider in his own mind w h a t othereme l us ohgroeoa doubt. t t ph ni s N e ti ns h ooh o mj c ee v en e t r a, Ireland ! resented to their consideration. The great. pheno menon of Ireland was its rural 'pop u l a ti on . Out. of 8,000,000 of people, seven-eighths of them to were included under that . cle l a n r denomination, n tter thanat io n i . t w l a t w s now, capable of cultivating aritimogt,htehaotouohnter-yhamlfueohf that population was truth, notwithstanding, Marquis, who sat notwithstanding, he re membered b h rme in speakinghae , t oonth offended this subject, he w ou ld ven t ure aga i n to say that agriculture, except in a few instances, be saed to exist in Ireland. Agriculture comet scarcely car ried on as a trade, but speaking l in Englartd was farmer and the Irish cottier tenant 6e generally ly of Ireland, the Irish not land to carry on a trade, but to li ve , andany sit down on their the payment of the rent. As long as that land l and was inhabited, surplus went to and lived on by the cottier tenantry,they legislate for it as they' slid for the rural could never t ion in England. They might be deceivedpopula tion the similarity of words, but the y should not by legislate for the two countres alike, because the tenantry in both coun tries were described under the same denomination. th The present Poor-laws in Ireland had been fraught with mischief, and the whole system would continue so until the surplus population of Ireland was drained. In the reign of Charles 11., there was a prohibition to the im- HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jan. 19. The SPEAKER again took the Chair at Four o'clock, and informed the House that he had, during the vaca tions, issued his writ for the election of a new Member for North Lincolnshire, in room of Lord Worsley, who had lately been raised to the House of Peers, as Earl of Yarborough. Colonel MURE took the oaths and his seat for Ren. frewshire, vacant by the death of the late P. M. Stewart, HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH.—THE ADDRESS. (Continued from our Third Edition of last night.) Mr. LAIIOUCHERE said, that although for many years he had been in the habit of addressing the House, yet, he confessed, that at no time had he risen more impressed with the responsibility of his position, or under a stronger impression how much he should stand in need of the accustomed kindness of the House. —(clean) The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Li merick had in very strong language depicted the distress at present exiting in Ireland. He (Mr. Labouchere) wished that it was in his power to say that he con sidered that the lion. Gentleman had no overcharged the picture. There ha d been, dou, in some particular instances, great exaggeration. Before lion. Members could charge her Majesty's Ministers as had been done by the Honourable Member for Limerick (Mr. Smith O'Brien), they ought to consider the ordinary condition of Ire land before this great calamity took place. What was the liana state of that country? It was no exaggeration to say, that the people were the worst housed, the worst clothed, and the worst fed of any people in Europe.—(Hear, hear.) He had in his possession some facts which would throw considerable light upon this question, which had been certified as correct by one of the best authorities on the subject. He meant the commission for inquiry into the condition of the poor that had been issued in 1835. The labours of that com mission proved that there were 1,131,000 agricultural labourers whose average wages did not exceed from 2s. to 2s. 6d. per week, and of this number one-half were unemployed for thirty weeks in the year. Such was the condition of Ire land in 1835. Such was the country on which a calamity had Callen unparalleled in modem times. By a visitation of Pro vidence the food of a large proportion of the people had been almost entirely swept away. The iotato crop had been a com plete failure. He had obtained some calculations of the loss whicis Ireland had sustained in money value, certified as correct by one of the best statisticians in Ireland, Mr. Griffiths. He cal culated that one and a half millions of acres were under potatoes, the ordinary value of which crop was 10/. an acre. This was an aggregate value of 15,000,000/.. and a' three-fourths had been destroyed, the loss was 11,250,00/. There had also been a great tailure in the oats. There were four millions of acres under that cr, p, of which one-third was destroyed, making a loss in money of 4,660,t)001. The total loss, therefore, was on these two crops 1 5 , 916,0001 . That was the ques tion which he had to put before them. Now these were the calculations of loss which had been occasioned by the calamity that had befallen Irelend. What was the mea sure of the loss? Why it was found, on investigation , that the failure of the crop had fallen on a million and a half of acres of potato ground, and that the loss in weight amounted to 11,250,000 lbs. The value of this produce was estunated at 4,837,0001. From other causes there was a loss of upwards of 5,227,000/. But the House knew that this calamity was not to be estimated by the loss of produce, or of the money for which that produce could be sold. Great as was that misfortune, there was a far greater one to endure. Every one acquainted with the construction of society in Ireland knew how intimately the cul ture of the potato entered into it, and how great a stake it con stituted in the welfare of the country. He would not trouble the House with details with which they were familiar, but he had only to recal it to their recollection to give them some idea of the distress which this loss bad occasioned. Not only was the cottage farmer deprived off his usual supply of food, but also of the means pay ing that rent for which he was responsible, but which he now found himself unable to pay. Then there was the farm labourer, who was now deprived of every resource. When these two facts were taken into consideration Honourable Members would obtain some idea of the deprivation which the loss of food had occasioned, and what had been the reality of the suffering. The Hon. Member for Limerick had described the state of misery and destitution in the county of Mayo, and charged the Government with having produced that state. Why, in the year 1835, a witness said, in his examination before one of the Committees of that House, "that the county of Mayo could supply beggars enough for all Europe." Was it, then, fair or just to charge upon the Government the present disastrous s tate of the country ?—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member went on to attack his Noble Friend at the head of the Govern ment because he had adhered to the pledge which he gave at the close of last session, not to interfere with the ordinary supply of food to Ireland. The pledge which his Noble Friend had given was this, •' that the Government would not meddle with the import trade of provisions to Ireland from foreign countries." He (Mr. Labouchere) now maintained that it was most fortunate that the Government had firmly, and under much obloquy, adhered to that pledge. He knew of nothing more criminal on the part of the Government than to allow themselves, against their own reason, to be hurried into the adoption of a course which they were satisfied would not was be for the good of the country.—(Cheers.) He sure that if Government had turned importers of food on a large scale, and attempted to do that which no Government could have done, the attempt would have failed. The short period of penty would have been succeeded by all the horrors of an aggravated famine.— ( Hear.) Hon. Members on the opposite side seemed to think `,hat the power of Government was unlimited. There could not be a greater mistake than that. He fully admitted that there were occasions when the Government might step aside from the rule which should be observed on common occasions. — (Cheers.) The fallacy of the reasoning of the Hon. Member for Limerick was to be met not by argument, but by the Governmentfood trades the wouldhcoand qh u ua n ev d ne e c r e t a 1 c'e n to supply result.—( Hear.) Was there any man who did not kno w that t • n • a 1-1 di f t h a t wt teh aparalysed?been we eldhave The pledge which the Government made was this, that they would not import corn from abroad for Ireland under any rn hady6,ho saidexcited We the must kw circumstances. It was neco naryto speak out on the subject. The conduct of the preceding Go ✓f e e r n s o e wat we are about of h hewthe importingot merchants, er before we go into the American markets. We ought to know what the Government intend t o d o ." And his Noble Friend announced his intention, and he had ad heredouldt° not it inter e fe v r e e r under ordinary He, circu h m ow st e a v n e c r e with'sdid not make that pledge without q u alification. He added, that the rttail trade of Ireland. Th ere were parts of Ire land in which there was an en ti re absen ce of retail trade where he (Mr. Labouchere) thought the Government ought to interfere. In the western part, and on the southern coast, there was this absence, and, with respect to them, they thought they would do more good than harm by interfering. --(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") In other parts they would base done more injury than good by such an ir.terfer ence, for if they had attempted to control the whole retail trade they would have signally failed. The Hon. Gentleman had reproached them with not acting properly. The Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth (Sir Robert Peel), when he was the First Lord of the Treasury had to deal with a calamity in Ireland of less magnitude however, than the one with which they were now railed noon to deal. The circumstances were, in fact, different. They wer e then living under a different state of difficulty in which the calamity had placed him, he adopted commerce than at that period ; and, in order to meet the a very just and a very praisew m o e r a t l h , y w c h o ic u h rse w .— as (C a ls t ee t r i s l .2 t He reduced the duty on Indian t . and the Irish uanb ecame w as imported in consid erable q article of food which was more nourishing accus tomed to an • l ti m e an article unknown, an dp rohibited in Ireland. It and which consequent y produced The Right llonourable Baronet excellent effects. effects. T the most entire secrecy, ducted that operation with successful.—( Loud cheers. ) than the potato, and though secret, having follow ed • the example of her Majesty's vernment for not lies into Ireland from America, late Government in throwing supp sible to do so. The Hon. Ilwoasn. Gentleman blamed the Go- And, therefore, when th i e t he did not recollect that it was imuos • G ent had the distress. He need not tot tak n sufficient care to remedy Friend had taken office remind the House that his N(A.le session. For a long at a late period in the past f her Majesty were Gentleman bad gone on to ob.et re that t—e oserrim time before that the fa , mer Ministers Q aware that the calamity wh ich has hadsi accordin u g ly taken suc ntr h was rapidly approaching, they t beneficial, and measures as they considered mos nce vi.sited the coy when his Noble Friend assume ' s' office he found that that the Government hal acted unwisely, in not trailing Par a course had been adopted, which had received the sanction of liament together at an earlier period cordo censure them for that House, and almost the adoration of the Irish landed having over-ridden the law ; they wee isposed to say that proprietors. He alluded to the plan of affording relief to the measures which had been had recourse to, were not those the mass of unemployed labourers through the medium of to which they had agreed.—( Hear, hear.) 'They had been public works. That system had, no doubt, b een attended with told that up wards of four hundred thousand persons had been seine abuse; but, upon the whole, and as a matter of choice, employed in works utterly useless—they had been told by they thought it least objectionable, but they never recommended their Inspector-General ( Colonel Douglas) that the only this measure as one intended to provide for the whole effect of these works had been to obstruct the public convey labouring population of Ireland. They were in hopes that ances, and that, in consequence of the way in which the works of that description would have the effect of stimulating Act had been administered, the people had b ee n with landed proprietors to the undertaking •of usefu l p roduc- drawn from the cultivation of the fields.—(H hear. ) tive works, rather than be thrown away on the roads. With respect to the supply of food, he could not agree in the In these hopes, however, they had been disapp ointed. principles of political economy, which had been adopted by The Honourable Member ' for Limerick went on to com- the Right Hon. Gentleman. Ireland was a country where the plain that the system of public works was deficient, and people had been accustomed to depend for their eubsistance on that the parties employed to carry it out were inefficient. potatoes grown within a few yards of their own houses. —(Hear, hear. ) To that he would say, that considering When such a calamity overtook t he countr y , it was but reason the extensive operations of the Board there might be some able to expect that the Government would have broken inefficient servants, but with regard to the officers themselves, through its harsh rules of political economy, and taken mea he believed that no reasonable complaint could be urged. sores for supplying the people with food, instead of leaving it He believed that it would be found that it would in the hands (.f private dealers. The Right Hon. Gentleman have been impossible for public servants to have stated that her Majesty's Government had done all that was shown greater ability, greater zeal, or greater success possible under the circumstances. He ( Lord G. Belittle:10 in the discharge of their arduous duties.—( Hear.) Did they did not thick so, when the people had been starved to consider the peculiar task imposed on them, and the extent of death, and whole districts decimated, it would not satisfy him machinery that had to be directed? Why, at the present mo- to say, that everything that was possible had been done. He ment there were 450,000 persons employed on the public works had a letter in his pocket from the Protestant clergyman of in Ireland—( Hear)—under the superintendence of the Beard ekibbereen, which stated that from the Ist of December to the complained of. In September last 30 000 were employed ; in Ist of January, 140 deaths had taken place in the Skibbereen October, 150,000 ; in November, 285,000 ; and in December, workhouse. These poor creatures stated that they had gone in 440,000. ( Hear, hear.) To expect that all officers employed there that they might die under a roof, and be buried in a under the Board, to give effect to such large machinery, should coffin. On one Sunday there were 14 funerals waiting for be efficient servants, was surely t o h ope f o r too much.— burial in the churchyard of that parish ; in the adjoining palish (Hear.) lie would state the number of officers necessary : nine were waiting one Sunday ; and iu two other parishes, six inspectors, 74 ; engineers, 36 ; assistant-engineers, 385 ; were waiting at the same time.—(Hear, hear.) It could not clerks, 2,800 ; and overseers, 6,846 —(Hear, hear.) be said that the people had been supplied with food when such This was the effort which had been made by the Governme nt to scenes had occurred. In the barony of Skibbereen, which meet the calamity. He could understand any man who blamed contained 140,000 souls, 10,00 h t 8 e per resesons h a d oment perished from en the Government for the course which they had adopted; he famine.—(Hear, hear.) At pnt , betwe could understand any man who should blame the Government 300,000 and 400,000 quarters of wheat were lying at the for a deficiency of energy, and for not exerting all the power three perts of London, Liverpool, and Glasgow ; therefore, for mitigating the calamity, but he could not understand how what had prevented her Majesty's Government from sending any man, after having seen the gigantic efforts of the food to the west coast of Ireland to feed the starving people? Government, should still blame them for the fact ( Hear, hear.) In 1831, when Lord Stanley supplied the that disease and famine still prevailed in Ire- people of that country with food, he succeeded in keeping land. There was no doubt but that disease and famine down the prices of food within reasonable rates, and if her did prevail to a most lamentable extent, but there was as little Majesty's Ministers had done the same thing with regard to doubt that this exertion had been greatly instrumental Indian meal now, he could not but think that they would have in reducing the evil and relieving Ireland from the reduced the enormous profits of the retailers and forestallers, pressure of this calamity. But they were to consider and would have prevented them from obtaining unduly high whether this was a question which only affected Ireland, or prices. He saw that at the present moment Indian meal was whether it applied to the whole of the British empire, and he selling at New York at three shillings a bushel, while in Liver should have no difficulty in answering that question. The pool and Ireland it was selling at Os. a bushel, and he thought calamity which had spread so fearfully through England and that the Government might, under the circumstances, have Scotland had fallen upon Ireland out of all proportion to her departed from their rigid notions of political economy, anti resources, and he did not hesitate to say that the House would have supplied the people of the west coast of Ireland with concur with him in the assertion that Ireland had a right to look the food which they so much needed. Then again to England and Scotland for the help which she needed. But he he conceived that if the Ministry had encouraged the landlords trusted that the landlords of Ireland would do their duty, and by giving the people employment in the improvement of their he believed that the exertions of the people of England would estates, instead of the unproductive public works on which they he somewhat in proportion to the willingness of the landlords of had been engaged, that there would have been much more Ireland to assist their fellow-countrymen.—(Lend cheers.) benefit than had been enjoyed from the expenditure of the He thought that there was in Ireland an improved spirit mone y. With respect to the compact that it was said had springing up. In many instances a sense of discouragement been entered into between the agricultural party and the late had come over the feelings of the landlords. They were Government, he begged to relieve her Majesty's Government now, however, beginning to awake from their dream, of all doubt upon the subject. If there had been a compact and to consider that Ireland was only to be saved from between the agricultural party and the late Government, it her present disasters by the instrumentality of her own had been endangered in 1842, and it was broken in 1846; and children. The most cordial feelings were excited in this he begged, therefore, on the part of those with whom he country on behalf of the suffering people of Ireland, and they acted, to repudiate the existence of any such compact now. — were willing to render them every assistance in their ( Cheers.) It was not their intention to oppose any obstacle. power, but that assistance could not be honourably in the way of her Majesty's Ministers, in abrogating that por and safely given without the co-operation of the nobility tion of duty upon corn. When, however, he said that, he did and gentry of Ireland. The Honourable Member not mean to admit that the repeal of that 4s. duty would con for Stroud had put a question with reference to the relief fer any benefit upon the consumer. It would occasion a loss afforded to the destitute and infirm of the population of Ireland. in the Exchequer of between 300,000 and 400,000/. But if The best course which the Government thought they could the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought that the adopt was to allow the relief committees to afford the necessary u was in so flourishing a sta t e as to s p are ass istance to that class, and it was hi s o p inio n that if Parliament revenue was he (Lord Bentinck) had no ground to com p lain. had in the last session passe d a p oor-law similar in its nature to The fact was that the whole of that sum would g o into the of the English poor-law, and wh i c h the Hon. 31 ember seeme d to pocketthose corn merchants and forestallers of whom the think the panacea of all the evils of Irela nd , still he thought - people of Ireland had such just reason to complain—(Cheers) that under the pressure of the accumulated distress of the coun try, that measure would have brok e n down, and he was —or into the pockets of American merchants and agric ulturists. At New York the price of wheat was 405., and at Liverpool borne out in that opinion by the fact of the it was 80s. ' and it was into the pockets of those who w ere difficulty which even then existed in col - making these enormous profits that the Government propo sed lecting the rates necessary for the support to put this extra amount of 4s. a quarter duty. He thought a of the existing poor-law in Ireland. He did not think, better course would have been to have kept the 4 s. dut y and to therefore, that the fearful state of Ireland was in any have taken the product of it to feed the Irish people. With way to be attributed to the non-existance of reference to the navigation laws he would not oppose any tern poor-law in Ireland similar to the English poor-law. His Hon. Friend (Mr. S. O'Brien) wished to know what he porary urthe suspension G of ther% t Ther h e k w h as on s e th c i o s urse tl y it et open eight eo.veem battle elt ships,to a o tti p had done when the poor-houses were crowded with poor.adopt, each about : .I,soo 're tons, were They acted on the principle of entrusting the relief of the and capable of carrying at least 2,000 tons of corn, - and 'lie poor to the local authorities—( Hear )—instead of undertaking had been informed on the authority of an able seaman upon themselves the whole machinery of doling out food to in the British service, that if the Government would give the people through the hands of Government o ffi c ers. But him a commission, in little more than twenty-four hours he they instructed the relief committees to exert themselves to the would take out the gun!, hatter down the boards, and caulk utmost to . raise money for the relief of the poor, and informed the vessels, and go with them to the United Sta t e s, and before them that the Government w ould assist them with grants. tea weeks had elapsed he would come back with 80,000 guar- And here he would pause to assure the House of the great ters of corn. He was informed her Majesty's Ministers had good that had been effected by those relief committees, the already employed, if the statements in the newspapers were human misery they had alleviated. He was sure, if it were true, 84 ships, measuring 37,000 tons. But when they saw in his power to lay a statement before the House of the good that there was little or no grain i n the countr y , and that the they had effected th e House would thank them for what people could not get what there was, because the corn mer they had done for the mitigation of the distresses of the chants would not sell it at a reasonable price, nothing ap poor. The Government began, when the distress was not so peered to him so simple a remedy for the evil, as for her severe, by granting one-halt of whatever was railed, and 501. Majesty's Ministers to employ their line-of-battle ships for every 1001. collected, but when the distress increased now that all danger of war was at an end, and the Montpen they acted upon a more liberal principle, and gave a pound for sier marriage had been settled.—(Hear, hear.) Eighty thou every pound raised. The House d.d not hear, and sand quarters of corn by the ships making four voyages, which could not hear, of the multitudes that had been might be done before the next harvest could be thus procured saved by these committees. He, in common with the other for the relief of Ireland. At that moment there were in bond members of her Majesty's Government, felt deep sorrow that and in stock between 30,000 and 40,000 quarters of some the famine had committed so muck havoc, but when they saw kinds of grain in the warehouses of London, Liverpool, and rich Belgium, France, and Germany suffering from the Ares- Edinburgh and Glasgow, which, if sold, through the interven sure of famine, he did not believe that they would tion of the Government would no doubt lead to the reduction feel surprised that such a country as Ireland, when it pleased of the price of grain and bring food within the reach of the Providence, had been similarly afflicted. It was poor. He would not, however, second the Hon. Member for almost impessible for such a state of things Limerick in any impeachment of the Government. He would to be met adequately by Government measures. now pass on to treat the othet matters of her Majesty's There was a retail trade fast springing up in Ireland; it was Speech. It was a matter of the greatest regret to the necessary for the welfare of the country that it should country at large, that the recent intercourse—the recent exist, and it would be their duty to foster and encourage policy of the Noble Lord with the King of the French, had it. But it was utter folly to imagine that they would been on bad terms, with whom it was of the highest be able to interfere with it, and check the price of food. The importance to this country to be on friendly terms. He was 1 relief committees established throughout the coun- glad to find the Noble Lord had protested against the Mont try were doing an incalculable deuree of goud, pensier marriage, and that the intercourse had now softened Sup depots had been established in every lo- down to the correspondence he had seen in the newspapers. cality, and the amount of human suffering relieved Be for one did not believe that the English people tusk any was almost 'incredible. Betore he sat down he would ; r ep r ess ie rte. Montnensier affair. The English syrn ; Teter to one part of her Majesty' s S p eech upon which pathies did not tend that way. If the conduct or Austria was he felt sure the utmost anxiety prevailed—he meant a manifest violation of the treaty of Vienna, what he should that part which referred to the state of Ireland. like to ask was the severance of Belgium from Holland ? if Wnile famine had de,olated Ireland, it could not be denied but the Cracow business was an infrE ction of the treaty, the treaty of that outrage existed to a sionsiderable extent ; and while the Vienna was torn to atoms when this country agreed to thesepa- Government was disposed to meet the fearful state of ration of those countries ; and when England sent her line things that existed, he warned those who might be the of-battle-ships to blockade the coast of Holland whilst the abettors of the outrages that the Government would leave French were engaged in cannonading the walls of Antwerp. no means untried to secure the tranquillitylt was not for him to enter more fully into the merits of the (Hear, hear.) The general state o flrelan r us t r o yv ; —ed case. He, for one, could not so deeply sympathise with the analysed them, people of Cracow, and he believed, that if the truth were an increase of outrages ; but having known, that the people of Cracow—the well disposed, the he found they were mainly attacks on roperty. butthhead d loyal people, and those who wished for peace, are greatly e- He was glad to say that lighted - with this incorporation with a power,ul ally. Hon. outrages had not only not increased, all but ceased, and old agrarian Gentlemen might smile, but he believed that it would prove niched ; the spirit of combination had . greatly for the advantage of that country, which now, for the now there was no difficulty in enforcing the offenders last sixteen years, had been in a state of continual alarm, and offenders. There was no sympathy wit t h he law against and the juries however strongly the press of foreign countries might write, w i tnesses could easily be found, Generally through - the effect app ears to be this, that the news of the ineorpora generally did their duty. — ( Hear, hear.) law was as tion was received by the people of Cracow with ac.. out Ireland, at the present time, the elm:nation and general illumination. With respect egularly administered as it wasand cheer- to the other part of her Majesty's Speech, he British empire. This was important in a n t y part of the Ireland. lie trusted that the measures imposed by the Ministers ing in the present state of things sures that the Government intended proposing,he hoped that they would now appeal to the returns whish I bad been made of w ould fully equal the emergency. Respecting the other mea these he found the crimes committed in Ireland, and, would be of such a nature as to encourage the employment of that in the month of December, 1845 t ou try amounted capital in Ireland. It was not by labour or poor employment highway robberies committed in that I °hid amounted ,frohme burglaries and taxes that Ireland was to be regenerated—( Hear, hear)—it to eighty, while in December, 1846, th,..2 f w the breaking m ust be by some great measure, by which capital would be in to the enormous number of 1,383. e'' duced to pour into the country. He hoped the measures into houses, and the stopping of persons ,on the high them, was a n woul d be such as would be entitled to his suptmrt ; but road for the purpose of taking mone y Ireland. Then if the Government did not introduce such a measure, offence quite new in the annals of crimeill'inta A hv the return s, then he gave notice that he would, at the w ith regard to agrarian outrages , he Route -Outrages corn- earliest opport unit y brin g forward a l arge and comprehensive that in 1844, the number of a g rarian 1 e ~ , ,920 while measure for that purpose.—(Cheers.) But the Right Hon. mitted was 2,486; in 1845 they But the most Gentleman feared that the calamity was not al in 1846 they had been reduced to I,3 w o 4e . re affecting Ireland ; it was an imperial calamity, to one httlh evil particular circumstance of all was the su 6 who had been aid of all parties in the empire should be diverted.y' which the e ment had received in the punishment of te st• likely to escape Geo. Bentinck) concurred in that • (Lord support ppoort,which Govern- sentiment. Her Majesty's guilty of offences hitherto supposed to be n s t of last year it had Government would have their (the rotecti • the penalty of the law. In the autum pthroesecbuakteersa, num- in assisting the landlords of that 13 country meeting shops the evil that had overtaken them.—(Hear, become the duty of Government to If they came down to that House on a justification of hear, e the I r k r i s s , h h u p e h o e p i 1 ) e e bee of persons for breaking i ve in s! t t l h ie e y e s m vo tr uld ' have and stealing the bread. They condemned to the heavy punishment of two Ye all - nplte°ade ' da G rgs e u. n iimit tl Y e Pi m rias a °n u ndm ( w A ae l nr r te: e onu i ° n Y p m r LIU t ee? v f ernity of thetas-istes There was another charge which the lien* of calling Parlia- sistance of the party with whom he acted , but, S. O'Brien) had made of the Governm ° ent (Mr. L a beuchere) t me, he thought it but right to state that ' at the same 1 he • • this was an exception ment together last autumn. Why, really the d a ily habit of see- to the rule, and that Irish property, of was in Ireland at that time, and was in iid there was not one another, should be found to maintain the on l e ris d h escription and ing a great number of Irish gentlemen , .t , aven's sake, don't thought it hard that the Parliament poor. They of them who did not say, " For l ie • ne „ o n yourselves." England should step in and sayyou shall or the Government of call Parliament together, but take the bust 's sake, call the employ the people— Heaven you shall feed the people, while they One and all of them said, "Do not, for , 11 only unsettle the will make no return ot food. are engaged on works that u WI Parliament together, that, if you do, y? , on. Do whatever You Mr. ROEBUCK. wished to give expression to public works which are now being caret!" ae d trust to Parlia- which he thought would be of service to the House w words think right upon your own respoosibert Yeverything in Ireland country. He deeply sympathised in the m• • and the e s ior Parliament to ment for an indemnity, but do not leave , of Ireland. Not having heard any explanationmiseries of the people in a state of suspense till the time aviroruivld be now highly e Lord or his colleagnaw he warnedtho from . the Noble sanction your measures. It w hi c h her Majesty sof altering that which shall he House against the danger measures a mere temporary expedient into improper to advert to those t ,_‘, be f o re the Parlia- a permanent mischief for the country. II Government are prepared shortly 0 we than the question of l et was quite aware that the sympathies of the ment. A more comelieated question sobtn . itteu to their con- behalf. He knew what itPeoP e might be appealed to on their the condition of Ireland could not b use might entertain of .. was to come begging from Ireland. the I 0 Alr. SMIT II O'BRIEN —Oh, oh. sideration. Whatever judgment t w Government —and he Mr. ROEBUCK —Yes, the course adopted by her Majes , Yoace the great question es, and he said it advisedly, and before he was done he would illustrate his position by many illustrious had no doubt that they could Members would bring to bear 1 examples. He in a kindly spirit, and that Hon. feel i ng or local jealousies—not gave great credit to the measures of the Right wereartfee 1 Hon.-Baronet Scotch, or I • milt opposite (Sir R .Peel), for the measures which upon the discussion nop - English,.he had adopted to meet the case of Ireland while at the head considering whether they would deal with the subject in a spirit they of the Administration . n.But there was a mischief attending Members —but that .t and right to each and all. The as such, a all those measures. He (Mr. Roebuck) contended that no and intention of what w that the people of Ireland had WWI . Government could propose to itself the task of feeding the nature of the calamity and to claim as a right, the assist-k as a boon, . .people. The legitimate consequence of not admitting the a right to as the British people.—( Hear, hear.) force of this axiom was a fruitful source of all that cant tie ance and support of w ho, thoughout his speech was heard tailed in the newspapers which told them that the people had a The Hon. Gentleman, alla y, then went on to say, that • lty i the g. _ with great difficulty j. ,,h Members, he did not do so right to labour and to provisions. He denied both • • proposttions. in speaking thus .to the - , p tit. H e hoped they would justify They could not as a Government provide labour for in any un friendiJ ''' s l at and of the Government, by show-- or pretend to pay them for it. They had it in history that the the exertions of Parliaemrroe ination to leave nothing untried, no- aristocracy of Rome paid the people • and what was the con ing on their part a d eetrtion o mitted which might alleviate the sequence of the adoption of such a measure ? Ruin was thing undone, no Clot Ireland. He was satisfied that the then, arid over would be, the inevitable consequence. present condition aye through Irish co-operation. In 9 He could not help pointing out the eviction which would be could do nothing save ht state that he would place n brought upon this country if we were to pay the Irish people. speakingg thus, he t g _ o f relief which En land should° He was aware that in doing so he should bring harsh expres. limit on the arrioun a crisis, but he should be sorry to mons upon himself, but, as a duty to the people of England afford to Ireland in suchwhich would lead • to the belief that • whom he represented, he was prepared to meet the obloquy encourage any doctrine which to rely altogether upon En 1 d.— which would thus attach to him, and to say that the people of Ireland for the future own children would not exegrtatnhe Ireland should not be paid at the expense of the people of (Hear, hear.) If their England. For one year, or for any specified period, he would greatest injury could not fail to be In selves manfully, the done, contribute all he possessed to maintain the people of Ireland ~, re land call with more justice than for on whom come' - , for that space, but it was a permanency that they had now to m eal? He hoped they would • come to the on her own count in one - meet. Last ear th anticipated the famine, and the Right m a tters , common spirit. When the discussion of these Government Hon. Baronet (Sir K. Peel) to whom he begged to express i. f her Maesty ' were laid before the • measures o his gratitude, did all he could to prevent the mischiefs which then be aisle to judge hew far House they would . they would might accrue from that famine. It had come again this year, igencies of Ireland, an d h o meet the present ex w far they would and it was aggravated because of the knowledge that rmanently th go towards improving Pe in feu condition of that coun- England would provide food for every brawling try by preventing the recurrenceFNTlNCK future of such disasters. demagogue who wanted to exacerbate the misery of Lord GEORGE B - then r ose , H e said—ln his countr It was known that England would come forward answer to the eloquent speech which had been made by now as she % had done, and England was prepared to meet any the Right Hon. Gentleman who . had just resumed his seat, he possible contingency of a temporary nature, but he protested could assure him, he believed, in the name of all the parties on againstpermanent provision for the Irish people. And now that side of the House that it_ was not their intention, and that a word a about Irish landlords. Ile had no doubt that what he shey had no desire to make Ireland the battle field of party. He might say would excite bitter feelings against him. Let not and his friends we re deeply sensible, that her Alajesty's Minis- his lion. Friend (Mr. Bernal) be at all hurt at the notion. ters had been brought to the governmentl of Ireland under (Mr. Brnal made some observation which did not reach the circumstances of peculiar difficulty. _Meer.) Th e y felt that ' a ll .y ) That was an Irish landlord of a sudden. — they had some share in putting them in pos3ession of the reins of gallery.) egrbier.) Those, said the Hen. Gentleman with gre e at_e r m . - rish government a t a period of the session. and so shortly phasic, poi nting towards Mr. Bernal—those were the Irish efore this calamity came upon Ireland, th a t th e y have not. landlordssjP for whom the British Parliament had been egis st a t ieg Ministers,: and to deal leniently with They had been legislating again he such matters with which fot 300 years. • the last The had fair play in dealing with thelreland, and for their own personal purposes : difficulties which press people of upon that country.—(Che,erswith the aid of the British Parliament, ). And for these rea- of Ireland, sons he felt that it was due from landlords i n flicted great mischief on the people of that country. The them to look with an indulgent eye upon tie, measures of her Majesty's Irishlandlord built cottages on his estate fit only for paup t ers_ they did not altogether concur. It . that he might get a per centage from the wan of would b • Ice quite unneces- in order sary for him to state tha t he deeply sympathised with the ee• nor law in Ireland h e would not ls- them. It there were a proper p I• h 1 dl 1d d tiot do this tresses which had visited Ireland, and that they heartily • d do o lie had been told that the ris an ort t_ house d for , in the concern which her Majesty h a d ea mes,edoi. jot t le at , but s l he had done it, and built house uponh useHef had country, and that they should be prepared to l give the calamity au er population for whom he had done nothing. all sort of and the measures proposed to relieve it, their g ' P P leg'slated far by the House of Commons, and , . earnest attention. beenanted to hiss by Act of I arharnent. But, at the same time, they should be expectedpeal • leges had been ge to privileged frankly, and whilst they Were not disposed to say . a ..+-.1a....•,.---- _ T ... But he-he' el taken advantage of all that had been d one for him, that he had given up sarcasm and had taken to satire, but he and had reduced the people of Ireland, by listening to their should recollect that oiliness of language, and silkiness of ex cravings for land, to a paupered population, spreading over the pression, would not answer for soundness of argument, and he whole land. After centuries of legislation, such was the eon- 1 would mention that even the polish of a shield would be lost dition of the people of Ireland. He would ask the pe o p le of ' when oil and vinegar dropped neon it. The Hon. Gentleman England if t h e y were p re p are d, n ot o nly to maintain the land- had styled the .Irish landlords a, beggars, but they only de lords of I re la n d, as w ell as their paupers, that they had mended justice. The Hon. elerifoer for Bath had alluded to created. He would say that it was the duty of the people history, and the King of France, as he called him, had he read of England, and, he would add, the representatives of the the sp eech of that King ? if he had, be would see that the people of England, to insist that the landlords of Ireland should French Government, although tee feeding the population, had maintain the people of that country. He was prepared to vote taken care to obtain a supply t;l' food for the pt ople f 1 nrff the for the people of Ireland the fullest equality of rights and laws, ports of Ooessa anti other parts there coin was tobe,obtained. and to sanction the Government in every endeavour to secure Why was it that the Government of this country bad not, also, the peace and welfare of Ireland. If the House of Commons taken the same step with regard to the purchase of food. In was prepared to give them frill and equal freedom, and allow the port of Odessa there was 150,000 quarters of wheat left them, if they desired it, to govern themselves, he would be behind by the French, why was it that there were onl y six quite reconciled. But he would not go beyond this. But he British vessels in that pert ? It was.a gross neglect upon the could tell the landlords of Ireland how he would be prepared part of the Government. There was al.() plenty if corn at to act. They were going to ievise the Poor-law. Now there. New York waiting for ,leps, none were to be qbtained. The was a clause which limited the operation of the Statute to Government had their experimental fleet !Wing about, and England and Wales. He would simply alter it to say, " Eng- their pennons floating with every breeze, why del they. not land; Wales, and also Ireland." That was all he would ask to freight them with the precious cargoes of food for the suffering be done.—( Hear, hear). He would have this Act, of people. Government had proposed to admit molasses for the which they had heard so much the law of Eli. purposes of distillation, why did they not couple zelseth—extended to Ireland.—(Cries of ' Hear, hear.") with that m.'asure a prohibition to lee barley? The Hon. He would even be prepared to give the people of Ireland the Member for Bath had thought fit to atts.ek the Hon. Member same number of representatives as England—( Hear, hear)— for Dublin, who was absent ;ho (Mr. Grattan) had no doubt he meant the same number in proportion to the population ; th it he would be able to defend hims if from the charges but he would also at the same time extend to them the same brought against. him. He would, howevee, tell the Hon. taxation.—(Hear, hear.) He would have no reservation Alen:tier fur Bah that there was a great part: in Ireland, who when this were done ; he would settle with the people of Ire- were handed together to remove the cause of universal misery land, but be was not prepared to support any measure that aiel distress wliicl. had sunk all classes, and demoralised the would tax the hard-working, peace.loving, law-obeying country ; and while we are engaged in this noble cause we people of England in support of a rude system of anarchy, in regret to find Hon. Gentlemen, %olio, like the Hon. Member that which was culled the sister kingdom.—(Hear, hear. ) for Bath, came like an evil spirit to blast al! their endeavours, It had been stated by an Irish representative the other day and to sow dissension among their ranks by the introduction of that the support proposed to be given to Ireland was to buy angry topics of religious diff. , teners. He trusted that the Protestants in that country. Such was the way in which the lion. Men ber for Dublin would let his constituents know that exertions of this country had been treated. Ireland wanted a the Irish Members, as a body, were all agreed that they would representative—a man that really understood her in- not follow the advice, and least of all the example., of the Hon. terests, and was disposed to promote her welfare— Niernber for Bath ; and that all considerations of party are (Hear, hear) —not a man who was actuated by feelings lost in the great national calamity._-( Cheers.) As of personal interests , of p ersonal p elf, and of party ascendancy, an Irish Member he deprecated the Government ch of pri h n i ! and to merge them a ll in advancing the interests of the peopl e countr y on p rinci p les of p olitical eeonomy, he of Ireland. They had not got such a man as the wants of eiples to the wind When starvation and death were staring Ireland required, but they had grit a man who had done every- the people in the face, were they to die upon principles of thing in his power to exaggerate the prejudices and excite the political economy ? The commissariat officers had become passions of his countrymen.—(Hear, hear.) It was such a embued with those principles, and hail gene so far as to distil man that presumed to be the representative of the people ; bute quotations from Ada.a Smith and from the Bible. The though he did not think he reflected ari g ht the character of letters of Mr. Trevellian were better adapted for souse of Irishmen, for he (Jr. Roebuck) considered those in the Scott's historical romances than fdr the Government of any union an honest people.—(Hear, hear.) But he wanted to nation. The employment which the Government had given hear from the Government what they might expect to follow under the Labour-rate Act was a mockery. In the county of hereafter. Was this system of relief to last for ever? Mayo the wages of the labourer was only 4 d. a day , and meal Because an evil has afflicted Ireland, are 8,000,000 t o come was now 3s . Sd. per stone—a quantity equivalent to the sup crawling beggars craving the support of the people of port of a family for two days. The Government, by their England, and exercise no energy and ability in order to do acts, were employing officers of the army in distributing a something for themselves? From beginning to the end halfpennyworth of bread and some treacle to the poor unfor , there was nothing but a cry of sympathy for the tunate devils who were starving in Ireland. He hoped, if the charity of the people of England. England was like union was to continue, that it would of simply be a ifedera foal or a benevolent lady in a pa r i sh, the p olic y she was pursuing a parchment union, but a union of sentiment, having its created around her a host of paupers.—(Hear, hear.) They object the promotion of the benefit of the whole nation. could not go beyond the passing benevolence they had hitherto Mr. D. BROWNE said he should not have risen to address been in the habit of manifesting. To maintain eight millions the house but for the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath, of people was totally impossible. He called on the Noble Lord who had given way to the ascerbity of his waspish disposition, at the head of the Government to show how it was possible to and maligned the landlords of Ireland. He trusted, however, maintain eight millions of people by any Government regula- that his sentiments would not be responded to by any Hon. tions. The great moving principle of the social system was Member, so that Ireland might not have that addition to her private, individual interest, and if they dislocated the machine, present affliction. The Hon. Member for Bath had reproached it would be impossible for society to go on.--( Hear, hear.) the Irish landlords with being beggars. But if they were beg. He called on the Noble Lord not to yield to the clamour of gars, they had been reduced to their present condition in con his Irish supporters, but to legislate for the people sequence of the evil government of their country by the of three kingdoms, and not for the advantage of one, and let English Parliament, and if they would restore to him stand out and support the great principle that the people the people of Ireland their own native Legislature, and those to be maintained, must maintain themselves.—( Hear, hear.) funds which they had contributed towards the liquidation of the If he departed from this rule, there would be no limit to the national debt of England, they would be ready to provide out dire calamities that would ensue. He knew how he would be of those funds for the present contingency, and place Ireland met by Irish Members—he would be told of starving men, and in a position which would prevent any English legislator from of women and children dying from want of food. He did not stating that they were obliged to approach the Parliament in en require to be told of these things to excite his commisseration attitude of supplication. He was sorry that the Hon. Member —he knew it all; and he traced it, all to the conduct of the for Limerick ( Mr. S. O'Brien) bad disturbed the unanimity Irish landlord himself; abetted, no doubt, as he had which had subsisted between the friends of Ireland; been by the Parliament of England by the course of but he trusted that neither the Government nor Legislature it had pursued. But he (Mr. Roebuck) the Noble Lord at its head, nor the party of would give the Irish people an En g lish p oor- which the Noble Lord opposite (Lord G. Bentinck) law, and give them equal laws and privileges. He was quite was also the head, nor the party represented by the Hon. Ba prepared for the consequences of this step. The Irish landlords ronet the Member for Tamworth would join in the senti. had their estates deeply mortgaged, and the consequence ment—that Ireland was a curse to this country.—(Hear.) He would be that nine out of every ten of them would be swept agreed in one part of the argument of the Hon. Gentleman out.—(Hear, hear.) But the mortgagees would have to step (fir. S. O'Brien), namely, that the Government ought to in and take all: the consequences of their position. They had have called the Parliament together two or three months ago , power to take the burdens upon themselves. mud to s u bm it to to consider the state of Ireland ; for, although the means the same arrangements as the English landlords. This was within the adoption of the Government might last sear have been all he would say to the House and the Noble Lord, on the mea- sufficient to sneer the ( t ooth ge , ney, it ty , s ii sufficient at the sem e s re lief proposed by the Government. As to the tempo- present period. There must, however. be energy ag ai ns t th e rary measure of opening the ports he was prepared to support it, landed gentry of Ireland. Testy neer resole some of their only it ought to have been done two months ago. He did not large rentals to stimulate the indu,try of the people think it would do much, if any good now, but he was willing by providing for their profitable employment—( Hear, to support it now in order to express his sympathy with the hear) and the first act passed by the British people of Ireland, though he had none with the landlords. He Legislature with respect to Ireland, ought to be one did not believe that the opening of the ports would increase the entitling a right of the tenants to relief from the landowners, supply of grain.—( Hear, hear) He did not think there was on whose property they lived. It was the best tax he thought much surplus corn to be found anywhere either in Europe or which could be imposed upon the landed proprietary, but me America. Neither did he think that much good would arise dependently of this he admitted that at this time there was from allowing the use of sugar and molasses in breweries and occasion for the Government to extend a helping hand to distilleries, though he would not object to the measure, as he Ireland. was of opinion that the rise of these articles in the manner Mr. BEBNAL OSBORNE wished, as a landlord, to ad named, should be allowed at all times. But when he asked dress a few observations to the House, but in the outset he what' they intended to do for Ireland, he could get no satisfac- wished to warn Irish Members that if they took the Hon. tory explanation. The Noble Lord who last addressed them Member for Bath to their bosom the y would find him like the (Lord George Bentinck), spoke of a grand comprehensive " toad in the ear of Eve"— (Laughter)—and although the scheme which he had in view. He (Mr. Roebuck) was Hon. Member for Mayo (Mr. D. Browne) deprecated the at excited when the Noble Lord thus spoke. He expec t ed to tack of th e Hon. Member for Bath , he followed up his state hear some great plan in connexion with which the ment, by adding, that the landlords of Ireland had neglected Noble Lord was about to come forward as the their duty. He (Mr. B. Osborne) had done his best to regenerator of his country. He certainly expected to mould his conduct like that of his neighbours. hear of some grand panacea, some great discovery like the Mr. D. BROWNE said he spoke of the past. gun-cotton, but patiently and intently as he had listened, he Mr. B. OSBORNE thought it unnecessary to refer to the had heard nothing that he could understand as to the course conduct of Irish Members during the past. They were au inn he proposed. He hoped that the next time, when the Noble proving body, which would be proved if the Hon. Gentleman Lord got up to criticise others he would condescend to en- came to move for an account of the many acres of turnips lighten them on his new plan—what he intended proposing raised, the number of duels fought, and the number of plouglia should he become the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Loud set to work in the county of Mayo.—(Hear, and laughter.) cries of " Hear, hear.") He (Mr. Roebuck) had been much They had the prosperity of their county at heart. The speech disappointed : he had heard no proposition to meet the of the Queen, which would be transmitted to Ireland by the starving condition of the people o: Ireland, come from next post, was certainly of a cheering character, as they the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear ) He was in a different were told that disorder had been suppressed by the military position to the Noble Lord. He represented no party, whereas and the police ; whereas Ireland was like a heleagured city the Noble Lord did. The Noble Lord was at the head of a without food, which, he apprehended, el - ,arity of the benevolent party in the House ; certainly not a powerful party, yet still could not adequately have provided against. These outrages a party; and he (Mr. Roebuck), therefore, did think that it i were only to be repressed by pouring in food. The Cha n c ellor was the duty of the Noble Lord t o ex p lain his scheme what he 1 of the Exchequer had stated yellow meal could be reduced to would be prepared to cm, were he ...11..d i. ve tie toe state le e. ,„, e r e -, t.... e el it was seletie in Ireland at 2s. ad. and physician.—(Laughter.) He was not yet called in, and if he 2s. 10d. per stone. He was at a loss to know why the Noble (Mr. Roebuck) were allowed to prophecy, he was nut likely Lord did not issue an order in Council four months ago sus to be. Still, he should have told the House what pending the corn-laws. It was too late to open the ports stow, his grand panacea was to be.—( Hear, hear.) lie as France had anticipated them. It was too late to do so in did not expect much from that quarter, and he January, when the people were starving, Something ought to would now address himself to the established parties be done immediately to pour food into Ireland, or Ire. in the House, to the parties headed by the Noble Lord and the land would become one vast c harnel-house. The Dean Right Hon. Baronet. He „hoped that no Ministry would be of Cashel had stated that 5,000 had died from starvation. led away by the mischievous belief that it was possible for Go- The Speech he considered was not a speech conveying the real vernment to frame measures to maintain the people. The sentiments of the Government, but of some political recusants business of Government was the protection of life and pro- in the Treasury who pulled the strings. perty, and the rest should be left to private enterprise. If Sir R. INGLIS said that he was anxious to say a few words they transgressed this rule, mischief must be the inevitable re- in answer to the speech of the Hon. Member who had lately suit, and Ireland would continue as it had hitherto been, the addressed the House. He did so, because he solemnly (be curse of England. He believed that if they were to consider lieved that the charge made against his friend, Mr. Treveyllan, their policy, and to frame their Acts as statesmen, they would was one which proceeded from total ignorance upon the sub. do all that it lay in their power to do, and all that as statesmen ject. Mr. Treveyllan bad been described as inimical to Ire they were called upon to do ; and with this remark he would land. Now, to his (Sir R. Inglis) certain knowledge, if he bad take leave of this part of the subject , and turn to another , on a fault it was that of being too partial to that country .—( Hear.) which he was desirous of expressing his opinion . And he did That gentleman had taken upon himself, not only official, but this now, as he was aware that an explanation was hereafter to personal duties in order the better to promote those measures be made by the Ministers of the Crown, and he did not wish to which were considered of a beneficial character.-(Hear.) mix himself up with the dispute which that explanation would The Hon. Member for Mayo began to speak with some appre be sure to excite. He took it, that to preserve hension that the expression of Ireland's being a curse to Eng peace, was of the greatest moment not only to England, land, would have a most injurious effect upon the people of but to all the world, and his desire, therefore, was that country, and he appealed to my Noble Friend the Member that peace might be preserved with France, but with for Lynn, and my Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth, all the nations of the earth, and he therefore trusted that no and my Noble Frieud the Prime Minister, and hoped that man, to serve any idle purposes of his own, would disturb the they would not concur in such a sentiment. His own memory peace of the world. It was evident that he was referring to did not inform him that such an expression was made use of, the late transactions in Spain respecting the marriages of two and he had asked three Hon. Members their recollection of the young ladies—the Queen of that country and her sister, the fact, and they ali agreed with his. Infanta. With that matter, as he took it, they, as English Mr. R. D. BROWNE.—You misunderstand me. I totally politicians, had nothing to do; but he regretted to find that deny it. the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had Sir R. INGLIS.—WeII then we must leave the difference thought proper to interfere. He trusted, however, that by to be settled elsewhere.—(Great laughter.) The Hon. Gen.. recalling his Lordshi i's attention to the true objects of political tleman then continued, it certainly was not the most courteous controversy, that the mischief would be obviated. He would method of contradicting him which bad been taken; for it was remind him, therefore, that, as statesmen, they had nothing open to the Member sor Mayo, when he had concluded, to whatever to do with the correspondence that might have eine- make a formal disavowal. and he protested against the use nated from the Chateau d'Eu. They had nothing to do with of such intemperate language.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped that persons; all they . had to do with was that which had passed the Hon. Member for the University of Dublin, and the between the Ministers of one country and another ; nor did he Member for Meath, did not represent the concentrated wisdom consider that the private feelings of Ministers should interfere of the united Irish party, for he could not hope that much in the settlement of national questions. He did not blame the good would result from such a ureon.—( Hear, hear.) He present Government, or desire that the Ministers of the entirely deprecated the principle upon which this claim for Irish Crown should take notice of these matters ; but still he felt relief was a tvocated. It was a claim made upon their justice, bound to call their attention to the constitutional rights of and not upon their sympathy, it was a claim of right, and not Europe, and, in doing this, he would repeat that he of compassion, it is a claim of so much debt of pounds, shillings, conceived that, as politicians, they had nothing whatever to do and pence, and not of charity. - He denied the claim with the private correspondence of private individuals. In thus made altogether, while he would cordiall making these observations he wished it to be understood that recognise it, if it were made on the principle he did not make them under the impulse of those peculiar of Christian feeling. The hon. Member for Bath had made principles respecting monarchical institutions which he was a speech, which was full of his accustomed sarcasm and acute supposed to hold.—( Hear, hear.) The sentiments he was reasoning, which, however, in his opinion, was not founded uttering were spoken as the sentiments of a monarchical states- on the soundest principles. He regarded the claim as a e eystee mao. it appeared that the Noble Lord at the head of the matic attempt to impose upon the people of England, Wales, Foreign Department had taken some umbrage at the marriage and Scotland, the exclusive burden of supporting the people of which had been eontracted by the Infanta of Spain with the Ireland; and his speech served to vary the uniformity of the Duke :of Montpensier, and a long correspondence had been debate, for the first seven speeches might have adorned the old laid on the table upon that subject and the marriage of her Parliament House of Ireland as a specimen of entire attention sister, the Queen of Spain. He did not wish to be a critic, to Irish affairs. Not one word had been said of another part but he must say that nothing could be more cumbersome, of the empire, which had been suffering elually, and with queer, or unsightly, or give greater evidence of the most enduring patience.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") an unpractised hand than that correspondence.—(Laugh- He thanked Members on both sides for that cheer, as it re ter.) He did not wish to be a critic of words, cognised the claim of Scotland upon their attention. The but a eritic of fact.—(Renewed laughter.) It appeared that people of that country, it was true, had not a united Scotch the Noble Lord, from some small pique of his own, objected to party, they were patient in their own country, and were not the succession of the issue of the marriage of the Infanta of clamorous out of it—(Hear, hear)—and he trusted that they Spain with the Duke of Montpensier. He did not exactly see would not be forgotten. He fully agreed that the question of the necessity or the policy of discussing the marriage of a young the marriages in Spain was not one in which the Secretary prince of twenty-six_, or its issue, by a person of the grave would be able to car r y the p eo p le of England with him. He appearance of his Lordship. He thought it rather out of considered that the treaty of Utrecht had been violated, but place.—(Laughter.) He trusted that the Noble Lord would its violation, in his opinion, was not a just cause for involving not suffer any private pique or personal umbrage to interfere the people of England in a war. He believed that it was not with his duties as a Minister of the Crown. The Noble Lord the intention of any of the contracting parties in that treaty dependedon the peace of Utrecht. But what was the effect of that any descendant of Philip the Fifth should ever sit on the the peace of Utrecht? He denied that it in any way affected throne, which intention was evident loo m the expression_a a the case on the present occasion. By that treaty the Duke of Phili p , who said that that treaty should be like the point o!__. Orleans and the Duke de Berri had severally renounced for needle, eternally fixed in one direction, and the/of:Lb, Yet, themselves and their successors the title to the Crown of Spain. sidered that the Treaty of Utrecht had bee 7 Bolingbroke was at that time our physician, and M. Toussin at the same time, he would again stat u e s , ifi t ed ha n t acted for France, and at that time Bolingbroke had insisted on eider that the Government would be l i e would say one word lyi no n t g e"- the this particular article of the treaty. To this Toussin had ob- country in a war.—( He ar , be ar. jetted, but at length told Bolingbroke he might take it, for the with reference to the L nn that, because illuminations two Dukes could not bind their successors. This was an evident with the Noble 51ember nn in e l e i n d v i o d d that at a time when it was occupied truism, but the Noble Lord seemed to have forgotten that had taken pace _ there , m subjfecorthO_eryr...,racow. He could not agree th ° two nearest Powers were ready to throw their maxim so useful in private as well as in public affairs, by th that . h E peror of Austria, with the certainty. that " sufficient for the day is the evil thereof," but had been also , h into it, that the people of Cracow were so degraded as e e j s oice in their degradation. He trusted that the evils God, be turned to good ac , ti willing to excite a disturbance where no disturbance was ne- t a o rm r i which had overtaken Ireland, and which were inevitable interests of the people who c h ou ti n d t bo a r n ne their sufferings in such an admirable manner.—(Cheere.) opinion. But the great offender was M. Guizot, athnoelil poor te ultimatelywould,b y a the dr aOOO mercy th o o f Lord JOHN MANNERS ventured to offer a few °beers. Noble Lord could not touch Guizot, and so fell upon ht, cur- pr.ncesses of Spain. Even if the Noble Lord w g ere oi r t if moop was re q was a Ger- vations to the House. He would offer a suggestion or two to cumstances were so changed that the treaty there Bavaria, no her Majesty's Ministers since they were so desirous of bene rative. At the time that treaty w o es made King of n Belgium, and even no fiting the people of Ireland, who were suffering so severely manic empire, but there was King of Greece, no King King of the French. Thus the state f Europe had from the misfortunes which had overtaken them. The Go. been entirely altered, and all the most addistinguishedalways s writers annulled n,and v e e o r r n m en t alalso to proposed suspend to susperid e the small duty now levied in h on international law , had a g reed that a waroperation of the navigation a treaty, and that it bad become inoperative unless specially laws. Now he was of opinion that such a course would not renewed, and that, too, in specific terms, for general terms lead to much practical good. It must be known by every E would not answer th e p ur p ose. The Noble Lord mi g ht have Member of that House that many other s tates of urope recollected that a breach of this treaty, as he understood it, sufferingwere had been committed by Louis XV., who married the Inf anta ofprohibited the ex p ortation from a deficiency of food , an d had actuall y Spain, and even by the pres ent Kin g of t he French, who mar- Government of cern. He thought the of this country oug ht to have dune ried a Princess of Sicily , both being descendants of the con- something of a similar kind. Within the last tracting parties to the treaty of Utrecht. Again he would ten days he had learned that no less than twent y -seven vessels s imply call to their minds the circumstances which occurre d had been freighted in this country with Englis h corn at the when Louis XIV. attempted to interfere with the succession to very ti me when a great portion of the English people were the English throne. On that occasion the people rose as one suffering from a deficiency. Such a state of things should not man, and he trusted those circumstances would prevent any. be permitted to continue. Beyond these observations he mischievous intermeddling—any personal pique, from breakin r the peace of the world. He would sit bydoe p ' i t ( i lue, g would contvnt himself with calling the attention of the House reference to the Spanish merely express- to a despatch of Mons. ing a hope that Parliament would interfere to prevent the people marriage, which was Gated F z e ' b t . 2 1' 7 ' 546. The despatch was of England from being burdened for the support of the Irish in reference to the candidates for , the hand of the Queen of poor, or the peace of the world from being disturbed by any Spain, in which it was stated that the Son of Don Carlos was small minded pique of the Noble Lord. Mr, IL 011_,ArrA out of the question. In another passage it is further stated N §aid that the Ho. Member had sa i d ' that the French Government had done everything .1s 111 I