The Sun. — London, England, 1840-01-04 00:00:00

BIRMINGHAM ELECTION. (FROM A CORRESPONDENT.) BIRMINGHAM, FRIDAY EVENING. The breach between the Reformers of Birmingham appears, I regret to say, to be widenieg ; and the pt o babilities are every d:iy becoming stronger that this present unfortunate division may terminate in the re turn of a Tory Member for our Radical borough. The friends of Mr. Sturge, anxious to secure an union of par ties who ought never to have been divided, addressed a let ter to Mr. Muntz's Committee, offering to leave the ques tion of the claims of the respective candidates to the deci sion of a town's meeting, a majority of such meeting to de cide which of the two candidates shall retire from the field, leaving the other to dispute the ground with the common enemy. This overture, it is to be regretted, has not. been met in the spirit in which it has been made, and which effectually shuts the door against any future attempt at compromises. LETTER OF MR. STURGE'S COMMITTEE. " Birmingham, Jan. 2. " To the Committee for promoting the Election of G. F. Muntz, Esq. " Gontlemen,—The contest between the friends of Messrs. Sturge and Muntz is most irrational. Ail par ties, with few exceptions, are actuated by the same prin ciples and propose the same objects. A great fault has been committed, and great blame attaches some where. Such a state of things ought not to continue. " Mr. Sturge was brought forward when the field was unoccupied. This Committee, therefore, cannot justly be charged with producing division in the ranks of the Reformers. On the other hand we cannot con ceal that Mr. Muntz has been brought forward as the opponent of Mr. Sturge ; and, under these circum stances, we believe it is impossible for him to accede to the requisition you are about to forward to him. He cannot forget that for three years he has refused to his most intimate friends, that which his present supporters now ask. " First in the field, we are nevertheless the first to take the necessary steps for obtaining peace and jus tice. Our present proceeding may by some be called an overture' to Mr. Muntz's Committee ; we call it a challenge.' " Our proposition is, that in the event of Mr. Muntz acc.'•ding to the requisition addressed to him, a town's meeting be called by the united authority, and at the joint expense of both Committees ; and that the ma jority of such meeting shall decide which of the Can didate:, Muntz or Sturge, shall retire ; and that such decision shall be final and conclusive. •' We d• not venture to predict the result, but we shall surely rejoice at it, if it have but the effect of combining all good men against the common enemy. Signed on behalf of the Committee for the Election of Mr. Sturge, " W. HASLE WOOD SMITH, Chairman. LETTER FROM MR. MUNTZ'S COMMITTEE. " Birmingham, Jan. 2. "To the Committee for conducting the Election of Joseph Sturge, Esq. _ . " Gentlemen—ln reply to the communication re ceived from you this evening, I beg to forward you the following Resolution unanimously passed by Mr.Muntz's Committee : " That in answer to the communication of the Com mittee for managing the election of Joseph Sturge, E s q., the Committee beg to state that the proposal to s ubmit the qualification of Mr. Muntz, and Mr. Sturge, to a Town's Meeting is entirely unnecessary, as that question will be submitted to such a meeting, on the day of nomination. Under these ;circumstances this Com mittee do not consider themselves called upon to enter into any discussion of the other topics introduced into the communication. _ " I have the honour to be, Gentlemen, " Your most obedient Servant, " THOMAS CLARK, Jun., Chairman." THE ROMAN CATHOLIC BILL. MR. O'CONNELL AND THE TIMES. (From the Times of yesterday.) But again, for " the newspapers"—oh ! ay, by all 1 means, for " the Times." He says, if the Ministers, don't " protect him—O'Connell—and his gang of con spirators" what happens ? Poor innocent agitator ! aNd poor noodled of Ministers ! Let them first protect, themselves. But. failing this protection, what is to happen ? Why, " means must be taken to punish the miscreants ;" and bow punish? Why, " the Irish papers are to name them." Scme old Speaker of the House of Commons—we forget the Solomon—boasted that if a certain Member had not retracted an expression employed by him, he would assuredly have "named him." " And what then 7' was the quiet answer. " Oh, God knows what might have haepened." So we tell this furious knave. Let him placard our names all over Ireland—let him consnme his tpugh lungs in virulence and brutality against us—let hirn" death's head' and "marrow-bone" our dwellings if he dare. Here we stand—here we laugh at him—here 1. - e have launched at least a couple of hundred articles that scorched and blasted, and con signed him to an age of iniOny. Here if he fails to complete'our threatened assassinztion, we will visit him, and his odious life with a thousand more such arti c l es , e xposin g , s c ourging, " wringing" for him hi s guilty " with e rs." " Nome" us ! What shame attaches to any man connected with this journal ? What is the end and object of our j i ,:bours but our country's good ? Who has dared to offer us a 1. ribe ? We have done one wrong to England, we ac knowledge. We—aye, we it was—the Times—and we glory not in it—that after 17 years of long unaided struggle, brought round the repugnant voice of the British nation in favour of a Roman Catholic Bill. And well have we and our Protestant countrymen been requited. But we have years ago told this poor man's rob ber that we were at war with him—open war—war to to the political: extinction of one of us—of Daniel 1 O'Connell or of the Times newspaper and the Con seri4itive and Protestant cause. He now knows what he has to look for—let him make the best of it. (From the Morning Post of this day.) The Times acknowledges, in the following terms of penitence and hnmiliation, that it erred most grievously i in assisting the agitation of the Papists on the subject 1 of their disabilities ; and that we and its other Censer vative antagonists who struggled against the artful and profligate clamour, and the pretensions it was intended to support, manifested a more judicious and far-sighted patr;otism : " We have done one wrong to England we acknow ledge. We—aye, wx it was—the Times—and we glory not in I:—that after seventeen years of long unaided struggle, brought round the repugnant voice of the British nation in favour of a Roman Catholic Bill. And well have we and lour Protestant countrymen been requited." Now, if it were possible, we would apply some small balmy drop of consolation to the wounded spirit of our humbled brother. We would willingly persuade him that, in the anguish of his contrite m i l , , d, he accuses himself too deeply. Is ho quite sure that ,he—tie alone—did all the mischief? Were not oth er , L 'hough feebler, labourers at work before, and w ii i hi m , I ,:s this field of pernicious industry ? It is not for every / , , an to be a Hercules—all cannot be gi gantic and irresis:ible alike ; but is it not just possible that some little c entribution, though far below the measure or effect of what was done by our penitent Contemporary, may have been made to the common object by fellow-labourers of Jess mighty strength and loss stupendous dimensions? We entreat our friend not to be so utterly cast down by the oppressive con sciousness that he did all—ab,solutely all.—himself. Let him take a little comfort. Did 1:ot ether Ke i mans as well as he, though of comparatively 0 1:scure name and dimi nitive stature, enter the gates of C;',:.rioli ? We hope we are correct, for, deeply as we commisse;ate the sufferer, we would not willingly administer a delusive miti igation to the pangs of sincere and salutary remorse ; but we certainly have some kind of vague and misty irecollection of having heard of some such nama as ,those of Burke and Pitt, and Fox and W}ndham, and ,9 -attar: and Sheridan, and Tierney and Granville, and a fe w other insignificant persons, who, according to their vacions faculties and powers—humble, as no doubt these /were when compared with the faculties and powers of our FenitOnt Conte.mporary—were said to have done sometiOng towards briq-ing " round the repugnant voice of the British natioc," if, indeed, it was ever brought r , ius'd at all, "in favou:r of a Roman Catbolic Bill." We advise our afflicted friend to ii: quire a little into these particulars before he gives himse:l' . up a prey to unfounded utter desolation and abasement of spirit, in th‘.' belief that he wag the only effective agent in I:.'° work he so deeply dePl"es' SOUTH A-N.IEIIIOA. The Maypo, Captain Seymour, arrived at Liverpool on Thursday night, after the quickest passttge fron' Lima on record, she having been only 85 days from port to port. The Maypo has on freight 500,000 dollars. The dates from Lima by i this vessel are to the 10th of October. The Chili troops were to leave Callao on the 18th for Valparaiso. Santa Cruz had been elected President of Bolivia, arid it was the general opinion in Lima that, immediately on the departure of the Chili troops, a revolution would break out in that city in favour of S3n!a Cruz, a s Gomarra's Government was very unpopuinr : Se v,eralot the Chili troops had been assassinated in the stroet s , so much were they detested by the Limanese. The state of trade was favourable. The Congress wag in Sessio n , but its proceedings had not been of general interest. LICENsii:D VICTUALLERS' ASYLUM.—On Friday the half-yearly General Meeting of the Donors at large of th.'s Institution, took place at the London Tavern, to read and confirm the minutes of the iat. half yearly meeting, aild also the subsequent SpenialMeeting, of Donors, to recei've the Auditors' account of receipts and payments durinw the past you., and a Report lento the Board of Manageoent on the state of the lnstita. tion generally, to elect 'Trustees and Governors for the ensuing year, and also to nominate an out-door Com mittee for the next twelve months, anti on general business. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. (From the Globe.) " Coming events cast their shadows before." The past supplies drtta from which we may draw conclu sions respecting things to come ; especially when the same harbingers appear to prepare us for similar events Mr. George R. Dawson, the brother-ia-law of Sir R. Peel, was the avant courrier of the Right Honour able Baronet's conversion to Catholic Emancipation, which he announced at an election dinner at London derry. An equally important change avowed by Sir R. Peel's jackal naturally produces a suspicion that Sir Robert himself is about to become a convert to the ne cessity of another " Repeal," viz., that of the existing duties on Corn. Mr. George R. Dawson has avowed himself a convert to the necessity of repealing, or greatly modifying, the Corn monopoly ! Mr. G. R. Dawson, the Tory candidate for the representation of Davenport, has discovered in the course of his canvass a truth which, we opine, candidates for the representa tion of most towns will ascertain, that no candidate has the slightest chance of success who is not prepared to relax the injurious restrictions of the existing system. How docile are Tory candidates when constituencies become the teachers !—Mr. Dawson's speedy enlighten ment is a case in point : " He had gone," he said, " into houses where he had seen swarms of children, and the mother had anxiously asked him how she could feed them ; as the father toiled from morning to night, but could not sufficiently supply their wants. He had found this in a great many instances, and, if he bad any previous indisposition to the modifica tion of the Corn-laws, such a state of feeling would re move it. Why it would be useless for him to attempt to contest the borough undertsuch a state of things. . . . . . . . He begged to say that on the call of the con stituency lie could not refuse to help them to get a cheap loaf." We almost fancy the confusion of the Post on reading this explicit recantation of a creed of which the speaker was one of the most zealous professors, and, consequently, one of the most orthodox authorities in the estimation of our Contemporary. How unfortu nate, that on the very day on which the Post charges us with incessantly and pathetically " appealing at this moment to the distress produced among the poor by deficient harvests," heightened, as we think and there fore state, by the Corn-law restrictions, Mr. George R. Dawson, a Tory of the first order, should describe a scene of domestic misery produced by those causes, in terms more pathetic than any we are capable of employing ! Surely the Post will not accuse so staunch a Conservative as Mr. Dawson with en deavouring to excite popular violence ! Although Mr. George R. Dawson is wise in discerning the signs of the times, his declared readiness to spread all sail to catch the aura popularis, will not obtain a breeze of popular favour sufficiently strong to carry him into port. There is, however, encouragement to the cause of the Corn-law abolition in the change he has avowed, not so much from Mr. Dawson's own importance, as from his known connection with, and as the recognised expounder of, the sentiments of others. (From the Standard.) Swift in his " Annus Mirabilis" cautions the persons whose change of condition he indicates as a neces sary consequence of the grand conjunction of " Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn," against two serious errors into which they were like to fall first, over-acting their new part next, an unconscious relapse into practices consonant with old habits, but quite inconsistent with the adopted character. " I would earnestly entreat," says the Dean, "the Maids of Honour (then Ensigns and Captains of the Guards) that at first setting out they have some regard to their former station, and do not run wild, &c." We decline copying the detail of the danger from old habits against which Swift gives a caution. Pro bably some of our readers have been reminded of the "Janus Mirabilis" by the rampant loyalty of which the Whig Romanist faction have lately given so many proofs. It certainly surpasses the loyalty of Conservatives at present, or the Tory loyalty of the most Tory times. Never before was loyalty so jealous that a man dared not to quote the most familiar principles of the British Constitution, or even the Scripture itself, without an impeachment of treason. Never before—at least since 1641 or 1688 —did the Romanists of Ireland think themselves called upon to muster their half-millions to protect a British Sovereign from the British people. We may safely, however, leave it to our readers' own recent ex perience to judge of the exuberant loyalty which the wonderful year 1839 has raised in the Romanist and Whig-Radical classes, previously not much distinguished for loyalty of any kind. (From the Courier.) The story told of the drum-major who, whenever he applied the cat, was assailed with the same bitter com plaints from the criminal under the penal infliction, until at length, with patience worn out, the flog-master ex claimed—" What an unreasonable man you are ; strike where I will, there is no pleasing you ;" this story, we say, represents with a slight variation the case of a Mot ning Ministerialist, who, say and do what the Con servatives may, is resolved not to be satisfied. When the Duke of Buckitigh-m stands up in defence of the Corn-laws and the agricultural interest, he is roundly taxed with sacrificing the " good of the people . " to his own private interest, or the'interests of a class. So also when Mr. George Dawson at Devonport bids for the suffrages of the constituency and for favour in the eyes of the Ministerial press by the declaration that, " he begged to say that on the call of the constituency he could not refuse to help them to get a cheap loaf," . . and even "if his interests as a landlord differed with the course which the electors pointed out, he would willingly sacrifice them.—(Cheers.) It might be said, that these sentiments would place him in opposition to the Conservative party—be thought this a mistaken no tion,for the object of that party was the good of the people." The idea of a party whose object should be "the good of the people," is of course entirely ridiculed by a journal with some pretensions to experience in the parti cular school of which a jobbing Government is at the head. Mankind is never estimated so uncharitably as when measured by the precise scale of moral turpitude and the filthy imaginings of people who have drunk deep of the dregs of political corruption themselves. Seeing that Mr. Dawson had in some sort iivowed himself a monvert, and gave promise of becom ing a valuable auxiliary in the cause, it might have been anticipated that his accession would have been hailed by the Anti-Corn-law gentry with acclaims, not the less rapturous from the hopes, under the cir cumstances, perhaps, to be allowed for, of such an example leading to other secessions from the same ranks. No such thing, however ; Mr. Dawson is re pudiated only as one seeking to " poach " on other people's domains, and threatening to divide with surly Cerberus the crumbs of such popularity as the cha rity of his former Chartist allies had not inter cepted. The practical lesson to be deduced from this fact is clearly that Corn-laws are but the hypocritical pretence, and the " good of the people" but the hollow watchwords of faction ; that in reality the modification or abolition of the one is as little cared for by the Anti- Corn-law pretenders, as the beneficial consequences fal laciously assumed to ensue for the others are truly be lieved SOUTH AMERICA. REPORTED RECAPTURE OF METAMORAS.— The Texian schooner of war, San Antonio, arrived at New Orleans, on the 20th, in ten days, from Galveston, re ports that Metamoras has been taken by the united Federal and Texian troops, under General Canales, and Colonels Ross and Karnes. Accounts from Ha vanoah, indeed, give the official Mexican report of an attack made Sept. 24, on the town of Guenero (Rio del Norte), by 400 Federal troops, under Zapata. The Cemmander says be repulsed them, but adds that the Federalists would soon be 1,000 strong, and with their artillery would probably carry all before them. BATTLE NEAR MONTE VlDEO.—Letters from Monte Video of October 4, confirm the approach of the in vading army to Monte Video. On that day a battle was going on between 4,000 Monte Videans, under General Frutes Rivera and 6,000 Entre Rians, under the command of General Echague. The whole town w under arms, and the city in great confusion, the Goverment authorities being much alarmed on account of the uncertainty of the battle. The French were about to land mere troops. Business was entirely suspended, and the Custom friouse closed. Many vessels were leaving without cargo. The Rtkola of the provinces or Governments seem to bo in a state a . revolution. The French vessels in port were the Minerva,the Sappho, 14 guns ; the Cawilla anj It corvpttep ; the Dapas and the Albert brigs witii a large number of gun-boats and °ther small craft ; they had landed from 490 to 600 men to tts;** in the 4afence of the town and protect French propertj'. The Arit;sl ) frigate Actaeon, an American sloop, anti two 4ra T ili 4 p Anwttes were also in port, - AN. SCOTTISH 110.-SPITAL.—ScoTTI6I-1 POOR RI THE METROPOLISA ,, A General Court of this Corpo, ration was held on Wednesday at the Society's Hail, Crane -court, Fleet street, Dr. Webster in the Chair. Regret having been frequently expressed by the Go vernors' and medical officers that the Committee were not authorised to supply medicines to the Scottish pour who might staad in need of them, the sabiect was re, (erred to a Sub-Comufttec at the General Court htl,d 00,t.he 2d of October last. Their Report was read by the (IgretarY• It stated their o pl u ign jhat the best mode of suPt/iYiPg medicines to the potty wlonrl the ctu w t o io u n ld t l: employ 4,1 Committee of Reliler And Management might in tuturp Lo ,7-.W.horise the medical officers phemists and drut , - Gr g e t e st °l : lle : l t en h n: e tl y might approve, and that A:1,4 chemists and' d quarterly r en d er their account.account.thrupt:b the medium 6h°li iurnofjlhe medical officer by whom they Ker.e employed. After some discussion, the recommendation (i f ti„•/ $ Committee Was carried by g considerable majo• rity. a fter the usual routine of busiue” ad been gene th roug h, t b m 4 § were voted to the Charm 44 4 .o the Court broke up. MONEY MARKET and CITY NEWS. (FRIDAY EVENING.) TlMES,—Under the notion that some relaxation is to be looked for in the pressure for money, an eager de sire has been shown to-day to anticipate the time, and to rush into new speculations. All those, therefore, which may be denominated the worthless part of stocks and shares have been more in demand, nor has this tendency, in appearance, been at all checked by the total silence of the Board of Bank Directors, at their meeting of yesterday, as to any intention on their part of reducing the rate of interest. They feel probably that, seeing the feverish state of the Money Market, this would only add new excitement to it, without creating for them any additional business. That the consideration of this question was brought be fore them yesterday is generally reported, and that a great majority of the Directors were of the opinion that matters should be left as they now are for some fur ther time at least. With the prospect before them of the large unavoidable increase, almost immediately, of the circulation, by the payment of the dividends, for which they will be called upon as usual to make the ad vances on deficiency bills, with other large additions to the circulation, through payments from the East India Company and others, they have every argument which a body in whom is vested so responsible a trust can have for extreme caution, The speculators, even those who feel that this is the proper course to be taken by the Bank, and believe that they will adhere to it, are under little restraint, since they imagine that the effort mak ing at Liverpool to extend the circulation will render nugatory, at least for a time, the restraining power of the Bank. By the advices from Hamburg of the 27th ult., the price of gold is 430 per mark, which, at the English Mint price of 31. 17s.10id, per ounce for standard gold, gives an exchange of 13. 7i, and the exchange at Hamburgi on London at short being 13. si, it follows that gold is 0.82 per cent, dearer aL Hamburg than in London. The premium on gold at Paris is 8i per mile, which, at the English Mint price of 3/. I7s. 10fd. the ounce for standard gold, gives an exchange of 25.36}, and the ex change at Paris on London at short being 25. 30, it follows that gold is 0.26 per cent. dearer at Paris than in London. It will be seen that the Commercial Bank of Lon don, which has been several months in preparation, is to commence business in the middle of this month. In general these undertakings are only put forward in periods of prosperity, and great abundance of money, but here the case is reversed, and, whatever its fate may be, it can encounter no worse storms than those which preceded its introduction. Besides the Com mercial Bank, two others are said to be in preparation, but no names have been given, nor is anything precisely known respecting them. Another undertaking, not an swering exactly to the description of a bank, which has been for some time in preparation, viz., "The Country Bank Agency," is said to he nearly at maturity. These incidents are unimportant in themselves, and only to be noticed as the indications or anticipations, among others adverted to lately, of an approaching favourable change in the Money-market. POST.—The Foreign Funds generally were heavy. and, but for some little comparative briskness in the Share Market, it is probable that prices might have been altogether less favourable than yesterday. Por tuguese 34-1 , to f ; and Active Spanish, with the over due dividend coupons, 24k to g. The last-named funds look rather better on paper, but there is no possibility of putting off any quantity of them worth naming. Parties who have a due regard for their reputation stu diously avoid having any dealings in so vile a bubble. The Morning Chronicle is strangely at variance with itself on Spanish financial affairs, and what the Madrid correspondent will have to say to the writer of the London City article we are at a loss to conjecture, seeing that the account given by the latter of the recent arrangements of the Queen's Govern ment is calculated to throw so much discredit on that of the former. There is probably a motive here for making all look straightforward and pleasant that does not seem to exist in the Spanish capital. We must say, at all events, that the statement of the City Correspondent of the Morning Chronicle has an ex - remely questionable appearance. Of the joint-con tractors with M. Ardouin for the ruinous loan of 1834, he observes—" As regards Messrs. Ricardo and Co.. we doubt their ever having held any stock unless con jointly with Messrs. Ardouin ; but we have good reason to believe that any stock which they may have so held had been pledged by the Spanish Government to certain parties, and that it has long since been dis posed of. The most rational account that can be given of the affair is, that from the long known im poverished condition of the Spanish Government, any control over the disposal of such an enormous amount as that stated in the Madrid letter would have been brought out long ere this, and no specie would have been suffered to remain idle in the hands of any ,party." Messrs. Ricardo and Co., if they have Spanish bonds not their own property, must no doubt have them in connection with some body, and with whom so naturally as with their partners in the negotia tion of the lamentable loan of 1834 ? Our Contem porary says his own belief is, "that it will turn out that the whole affair originated in some financial ar rangments contemplated by the Spanish Government with reference to the accounts between that Govern ment and Messrs. Ardouin and Co., of Paris, which remain unadjusted, and with respect to which some ap plications might have been rendered necessary." Our readers will see at once that in all this there is nothing conclusive—nothing that can exonerate the Spanish Executive from the heavy imputation that has been cast upon them by the Paris Commerce and the Madrid Correspondent of the Morning Chronicle itself, and but little to absolve individuals here and at Paris from the suspicion of being engaged with them in some dark transaction or other similar to that in which the Finance Minister of the day, M. Mendizabal, was the principal actor. England was at that period plun dered of the sum we have named—perhaps consider ably more—and knew nothing of the matter until the plunderer-in-chief himself confessed his delinquency, and it acquired notoriety through the exertions of the Morning Post. CHRONICLE.—The English Funds not only maintain the advance of yesterday, but may be quoted somewhat better, although no extensive operations have taken place. This steady advance may, therefore, be attributed to a general feeling that an amelioration in monetary affairs is not far distant. Exchequer bills have again advanced Is. HE RALD.—A letter from Batavia, of the 27th of September, mentions, that the Bank had not resumed its specie payments, though supplies had been received, and more were expected from Holland. It was ex pected that these remittances would have enabled the Bank to redeem its paper without any immediate fear of a second drain. It would also appear that a project had been on foot, having for its object periodical sales of produce in Batavia, as the cheapest means of obtaining specie and any other funds, and that the Local Govern ment only waited for the sanction of the Hague to make the experiment. SUN.—The Foreign Exchanges were flat again this afternoon, at the following, which were the closing rates :—Paris, 251. 60c. to 25f. 621 c. ; Hamburg, 13 81 ; Amsterdam, 12 31 ; and Antwerp, 12 3. The Colonial Markets have been firm to-day. There are appearances in the City of a considerable increase of business. The Funds look buoyant also. Consols for the Ac count, after reaching 921, receded to 92i, at which the Market left off. For the month of February the price was 921 I, at the end of the day. The demand for Exchequer Bills has been good throughout the day, al though the premium of 3s. was not sustained up to the end of the day. India Bonds have not risen above 3s. discount. Bank Stock left off heavily, at 1771 ; and India Stock for the Account, at 9.55. As from the contradiction of Messrs. Glynn, the celebrated London bankers, and M. Ardoin, the rich capitalist of Paris, to the report of certain Spanish secu rities having been demanded from them by the Govern ment of Madrid, has caused some doubt as the truth of the statements in circulation for some days past, the Active Stock has rallied again from 231 to 24i ; Colombian Bonds rose this afternoon to NI 1 ; and Mexican to 29 ; Portuguese New Five per Cents. ad vanced to 34i j. An extensive business was done in the Railway Shares. The Great Western rose to 3 discount ; the Birmingham to 561 prem. ; the Brighton to 14 dis count ; and the Blackwell to 1 discount. In conse quence of the favourable report of the Directors of the Colonial Bank, the shares of that institution have risen to 8 and 71 premium. The Earl of Camperdown has joined the Countess and Lady Elizabeth Duncan at Bath, from Bowood Park, Wilts, where his Lordship has been on eloit, to the Marquis and Marchioness of Lansdowne. p„" sanguine expectation among Re form," that Mipigefs, on the assembling of Parliament, will t4lte that 401 d? YigOvoos, and judicious course which is et once calculated to reanimate the chilled affections of the people, and to advance the hest inte rests of the country. They need net hesitate as to the ghatieter of the measures they ought to countenance and introduce f. the more unpalatable they are to the m ust be their i n t r i ns i c ex cell e nce, 'Furies, ett , e th m eergereacceptable they are sure to be to the ra t n e - .7" eg and reasonable portion of the community. reasoning there fore,. let it be with t f li f p f 4 4 ,7i7 ; 4 I:e ,i.t a ui ny4o t, com p.- of Reform—with - they over the latter, Use, IFI4ePt? Ni 4 iiPpiiicable, as arc, thtre must he no exchangitl of compliments or courtesies—no adaptation of measures to suit their standard. A well-organised Ministry, suppOrted by the co4dence of an enlightened and liberal Sovereign, and having at its call the ready aid of millions, to assist them in a patriotic course of action, need not fear the factious resistance of a corrupt oligarchy. Let them show that they despise 4.-11411 Observer. MO N MOUTH SPECIAL CO NIMISSION. CONCLUSION OF THE INVESTIGATION ON THLTRSDAY. MONMOUTH, THURSDAY JAN. 2. AfTr our last express loft the following examinations were gone into : Captain Basil Gray called, and examined by the Attor ney-General—Witness is now a Captain in the Queen's army. On the 4th of November last was a Lieutenant in the 45th Regiment. The company witness belonged to was stationed at Newport, at the Union poor-house. There W 23 at that time no other military force in Newport but his own company, which was commanded by Captain Stack. Recollects being detached by Captain Stack, on the morning of the 4th of November, with two sergeants and 28 privates, with orders to report himself to the Mayor. Marched immediately to the Westgate Inn. Left his quarters about a quarter after eight o'clock, and might have taken eight minutes to reach the inn. On arriving there, formed in front of the building, and consulted the Mayor, who desired him to enter the yard, through the stable-gate. He and his company were then sta tioned in a room with three projecting windows. After witness had made every preparation, the Mayor re turned to him and informed him that the mob was approaching. At this time the guns of h;s sol diers were not charged. The lower shutters of the room were closed. Witness heard loud cheering from the angle turning up Stowe-hill, continued to the front of the building, and perceived over the half shutters certain weapons, spears and pikes. Saw that the mob were forming in front of the building; they appeared to have formed very steadily, from the manner in which the weapons came up; they then discharged a volley of small arms at him, and rushed through the building by the hall door, which had either been forced or left open. The win dows were torn in different parts by the effect of the slugs and balls. Down to that time witness's men had not loaded their guns ; he gave the word to load immediately ; they loaded with ball cartridge. The lower parts of the win dow shutters were then opened, one by the Mayor and one by witness. Witness opened the one nearest the entrance of the building on the left hand ; he and his men were then unmasked and exposed to view, and another volley of small arms discharged at us. Did not immediately perceive- that the Mayor was wounded. Witness's men began firing from the windows as soon as the shutters were opened. The mob had effected an entrance by means of the hall. The firing continued about half a minute from the window, and the door-way communi cating with the passage of the house was secured, un til the rush had subsided, and the special constables had got away from the mob. The special constables went into the court-yard. The door of the room where his men were was thrown open, and his soldiers fired into the passage, in which those who had effected an entrance were passing backwards and forwards with arms. One of the mob there was killed, and his body was stretched across the passage. The whole affair occupied less than ten minutes ; the streets were soon cleared of all dangerous objects, but the attack in the inner building continued to the last, and whenever the smoke cleared away the mob attempted to force their position. This was after the firing in the street had terminated. The mob attempted to rush up the doorway of the room where the soldiers were placed, but they always faltered when they encoun tered their own dead and received the fire of the soldiers. The passage was cleared of all but the dead and wounded in ten minutes. Witness then gave orders to spare their ammunition. Sawa great deal of ammunition belonging to the mob. Broke up some and applied it to the use of his men. This ammunition was taken from the pockets of those who were killed. One man had his ammunition made up very neatly, like a soldier's. There were on him 30 or 40 rounds. Saw a good deal of other ammu nition less skilfully made up. There were slugs and balls. The slugs were loose in the pockets of the mob. Took some flasks of powder. Is the course of Monday morning two prisoners were taken in the building, in a side room connected with the passage. Saw no arms in their hands, but ammunition was taken from one of them. When the dangerous part of the mob had dispersed we found nine dead bodies. Cross-examined by Sir F. Pollock—How many of your people were in the inn?---In all, 30. When you came up i►► front of the inn, where did you go next ?—lnto the court-yard. How long did you remain in front?—About a minute. You then went into the court-yard; how long did you remain there ?—About ten minutes. Where did you go then ?—I then entered the building, and occupied the room where the firing subsequently took place. How long did you stay there before you received orders to load ?—I received no orders to load : I gave them. Sir Thomas Phillips has told us, be gave you orders to load ?—.I do not remember to have received any orders to load. What did the Mayor direct?—We considered together, and as there was an expectation that an attack would be made on the inn, he was anxious that I should remain in it, and offered me the room in which the soldiers were placed. I found that it would answer the purpose, as it was on the ground floor, and communicated both with the street and the house. I brought in my men, but they did not load because there was then no immediate necessity. You say you received no instructions to load ?—No, I ordered my men to load when they were fired on ; I then required no instruction., and had no time to look for them ; the mob fired at the place before the shutters were opened ; and the moment the shutters were opened, my men were exposed, and they received a fresh volley. When you was fired on, did you give orders immediately to your men to load ?—lmmediately, and the shutters were opened to allow my men to fire. Without opening the shutters your men could not fire, unless they fired in the air ?—Soldiers don't do that. But mak) , of the shots fired by the mob were in the ceil ing ?—Many. The practice of the mob, then, was different from that of the military ; and all the harm they did was to break the windows and damage the ceiling ?—And also to wound the sergeant of my company and Sir T. Phillips, the Mayor. Did you not give the order for loading before you opened the shutters ?_ Yes. flow long did you remain in the room before the firing over the shutters into the ceiling commenced?—.Some where about five minutes. Re-examined by the Attorney-General.—Before you opened the shutters had there been firing against the shut ters?--Against them and through them. The shutters were damaged and torn by that firing before I opened them. Did you see any shot-marks in the shutters on a level with you ?—Perfectly on a level. The shutters protected us in a great measure. _ _ Can you tell whether the balls on the ceiling had glanced against the shutters ?—Very likely. Sir F. Pollock—l wish, Captain Gray, you would an swer the quesion. Can you tell that those shots had glanced against the shutters then ?—I cannot. By the Attorney-General—lf they had glanced against the shutters, would that account for their lodging in the ceiling ?—I cannot account for the direction of a spent shot ; It goes in any direction. Before opening the shutters. did balls strike the shutters on a level with you?—Yes t. I did not see the balls in the ceiling till afterwards. By the Foreman of the Jury—Did the mob fire at the military after they were completely unmasked?—They fired a volley on us immediately the shutters were opened ; and they might have fired a great deal more, but our fire covered theirs ; and I could not tell what they did, in consequence of the din and the noise which prevailed, ex cepting from the wounds which our party received. The Foreman asked whether they did not fire on the military after they knew they were in the room ; might not the shots which entered the room have been the result of the continuous firing before the shutters were opened? By the Court—Did the mob deliberately fire upon the military after the shutters were opened ?—I have every reason to believe that they deliberately fired on us when we were unmasked, and I was prepared for it. Are you satisfied that the mob saw you at the time they fired into the room ?—I am satisfied they must have seen us ; the windows extended to the very floor, and exposed us. I was in my uniform, and the soldiers were in a line behind me. Can you speak with certainty as to the mob seeing the soldiers as well as yourself ?—Thoy must have seen both me and the soldiers. Mr. Kelly--Will your Lordships ask how many of the soldiers received wounds after the shutters were opened and the soldiers were unmasked ? what Sergeant e y ri g t g I - ey . e aoru, t C r o p. u na r al t y;:e or Y f? o h t—h u eo 4 e n a sl y r t. k t o, the e g q . ;I nd s tei soldier 1 lortn,, waswCa a ws p on t u ain en xdt . e Ga e ad .r called d ; by the Attorney-General. -' ' . . Sir F. Pollock objected to his description as stated in the en t t hem with at list of witnesses, and the Court allowing the v a lidi ty o f the objection, the witness was not examined. Thomas Walker sworn, and examined by Mr. Wightman, —I live at Newport. I remember Sunday evening, the 3d of November. lam a special constable. I went out that evening to the hills by orders of t h e M ayor . I wen t on horseback at about ten o'clock. I went towar d s Ri sca. A man named m ß e ig Rigby, a met bo about party e m ef s and men, n and half from though ewport. Th ere were a b out twelve men. Charles passed rles Webb What were they doing ? Sir F. Pollock object ed to the q ue stion, en the ground that the acts of those t w e lve or fift y men, whichever they might be, ought not to a ffect the p ri soner until he was shown to be present , or to be connected with those parties. The Lord Chief Justice—The questi on i s perfectly re levant. Mr. Kelly followed, and co ntend ed , that whatever those i men might have done, Mr . . Frost c ould not be prejudiced by their actions. The Lord Chief Justice—Let us hear where Risca is, it may be towards the spot w hence they cams the next morn ing, and if so, certainly this evidence will bear. Re-examination resumed--Risca is upon the road to the hills. I know the Cefn, th at is i n the road towards Risca from Newport by the tramro ad. The tramroad of which I have been speaking leads thro ugh Tredegar-park. I sawl2 o had in the i r h an d s, i t was too dark. ' I went to the Welch Oak, and on t o near Rises. not what l. 1 6 they men; they stood under the wall. I could see Did you ear anything d to the ? , . Sir F. Phollock objecte question, an d h e cou ld not better do so than by at once citing a case, to which he could add but little, if anything — which was thus reported in " Roscoe's Digest of the L a w of Evidence," p. 19 : .' Similar evidence was lately admitted i n a case o f rob bery. The prisoners came w i t h a mob to the prosecutor's house, and one of the mob went up t o t h e prosecutor, and civilly, and, as be believed, with good intention, advised him to give them something to get rid o f t h em, which he did. To show that this was n ot bona fide advice to the prosecutor, but in reality a mode of ro bbi ng hi m, i t was -' 1 to givo °Menet' or QOM' denlanda of TfigilOY propos._ -t- ..,, other houses at dial:rent periods made by the sante mu„ ... of the day, when some of the prisoners were , present. mop that vihat wig, done bi Mr. Justice Parke having .W,qrt:4 IVIM WU Atlr particul ar t ransac ti on at 01b t J h u e d g r u e o s b , s b 4 e i LT: a N n V d e 4 a f r t e e ro flee la o e p i prosecutor's house, but in the course of the same day, and when any of the prisoners were present, may be give!) in evidence.' fie afterwards stated that he consulted with Lord Tenterdcn, who concurred in this opinion (it was a special commission)." Mr. Baron Parke—Yes, I remember; that case oe. cur red at the special commission at Winchester. Lord Chief Justice Tindai—But that was an indietinen: for robbery. Sir F. Pollock—Very true, my Lords, but this is not an indictment against the prisoner for a conspiracy, iu which you may almost prove anything ; but although you may do this, even then you must show that your evidence affects some one person connected with the conspiracy. Here it is said, that there are twelve persons standing under a wall; well, suppose it to he so—for we must not disguise from ourselves the fact, that when Mr. Wightman asks the gnestion, " Did you hear anything ?" he expects the answer to be that he heard firing. But is this to be given against the prisoner —is lie to be made answerable for every stray shot which may have been fired that nignt, by whatever party ? Mr. Justice Williams—The question was not as to a shot, Sir Frederick Pollock, but as to a sound. Sir F. Foltock—But I apprehend this to follow. Mr. Wightinan—Oh, no. The Lord Chief Justice—But, Sir Frederick Pollock, the question appears to me to be perfectly legitimate, for suppose he heard or saw a drilling of perhaps 2,000 men, or upwards, why that certainly would be legitimate evidence. Mr. Kelly—My Lords, pray permit me to say, notwith standing that this mob which the witness saw or heard may be entirely unconnected with the parties of the next day, supposing, for instance, that certain parties met by the witness had said, " We are marching to London to de pose the Queen ;" however criminal this might have been upon their part, it could not legally have affected the pri soner, although statements like the present might have an effect upon the jury. Lord Chief Justice Tindal—But it is right for us to see how this large body of men were collected, and we may find that some met at one part, and some at another, to proceed to a general purpose ; the evidence then of this assembling would be clearly relevant. Mr. Baron Parke briefly concurred with Lord Chief Justice Tindal. Mr. Justice Williams—lt is quite clear that the ques tion can be put, and that this is admissible evidence ex concessu. Suppose, tor instance, that the place spoken of by the witness had been nearer to Newport, why the evi dence would only have been stronger, but it would have been legitimate, and the only difference was, that from the distance it might now be weaker. But still it was quite evident that the testimony tending to show the general state of the country on that night must clearly be admis sible evidence, tending as it did, to show what was going on. The objection being overruled, the examination pro ceeded. Examination resumed—l heard a noise, cheering, and a gun fired. It appeared to come from a great many people. This was about eleven o'clock. I was then about a mile from the Welch Oak. The sound appeared to be further up the hills, and above Risca-bridge. When I heard this I returned ;it was raining, and a very dark night. On my way back, when I got to Rigby's, which I have men tioned, I saw some persons. It might then be about 12 o'clock. I saw some men, who tried to stop me, and stabbed me in the thigh. There were 12 or 16 ; they were across the road. I can't say if they were armed, but I was stabbed with a sharp instrument. When I was stabbed, there was also a pistol or gun fired. It was from one of those persons. I was stabbed in the thigh. It was a considerable wound. I think the pistol or gun was fired at Webb, who was with me. I was a little on before him. I went to Newport, and I reported to the Mayor what had occurred. I was then very weak, and was carried into the house. Baron Parke—Surely that is not material. Sir F. Pollock—Oh, it is very material. The Lord Chief Justice—Yes ; they must show that this was fired with a view of preventing communication with Newport. The Solicitor-General—My Lords, the next witness I shall call will he very long, and I therefore beg to ask your Lordships whether you will now proceed or adjourn? The Judges decided, that in consideration of the prisoner and the jury, the Court should be adjourned until to-mor row morning. The Couit was, at six o'clock, adjourned accordingly. MONMOUTII, FRIDAY AFTERNOON, QUARTER TO 5. The Court re-assembled this morning, and the prisoner John Frost being replaced at the bar, Matthew Williams was sworn and examined by Mr. Ser geant Ludlow—l live at the Argoed; it is about 16 or 17 miles from Newport : it is in the hill country ; there are mines just above. On Sunday night, the 3d of November, I went to the Welch Oak ; Risca lees in the direction be tween Argoed and Newport. The Welch Oak is at Risca ; it was about midnight that I went to the Welch Oak. I saw the prisoner John Frost there. A great many went with me. I saw Frost speaking to another man, and there was a great many around the place. On the night before that I had been at the house of William Williams, at Argoed ; he keeps a beer-shop. There was a Chartist lodge held at his house that night. I was at Williams's from 9 to 10 o'clock. His house was full of people, and I saw some outside. They ware most of them colliers. Our names were called over there. I was a new member. A person took down our names. I had a per. son put over me and nine more as a captain ; there were ten under the captain. Sonic money was called for from us-sd. each; the captain was to bide there all night. This was the Saturday night. I saw the captain again the next morning. We were told on the Saturday night that we were to meet him next morning between nine and tent) 'clock, by the chapel. I met my captain near the chapel accordingly, and in pursuance of what passed there we met again at about six o'clock in the evening. There were many other persons there. There was a lodge again held on the Sunday night. I attended it. It was between three and four o'clock on Sunday afternoon. It was held at the same place as before, William Williams's. At that lodge an appointment was made for our meeting again at a later hour. We were to meet together to pro ceed for Newport. Sir F. Pollock—But you must ask by whose direction. Examination resumed—A person mentioned the Cefn. I did not go there. There was the Oak mentioned, and I went there. I had previously gone to bed about six o'clock, and between that and seven there was a knock at the door, and they said they wanted the men out of the house and my wife said there were no men there then, they knew better and split the door in and then I cried out " I am coming." There was a person put over me to guard me, that I did not run away. I took a stick with me, and I went with a great number of others to New bridge. Newbridge lies in the way to Risca. We met with many lets on the way, and I can't say how many there were, it was so dark ; but there was a great number of men. Most of thorn had some weapon or other. Many had spears, some had guns. I did not see any with swords i❑ the night. It was a very wet and tempes tuous night. In consequence of something I heard at Newbridge, we went on to the Welch Oak, where we met the prisoner. There were a great many there with Frost ; they were variously armed. I stopped at the Welch Oak, until almost dsylight. The party went from the Welch Oak down towards Newport ; we went through Tredegar-park, and passed by the machine, where there was a little halt below the machine. We went by the Fryars, down Stowe-hill. I know the Roman Catholic chapel, it is near the Westgate. I went on to the West gate. I last saw Frost by the Roman Catholic chapel. I am sure I saw him there; he had come with the party from the Welch Oak. I saw him several times on the way. Frost was chiefly , in front. When I was at the Roman Catholic chapel there were perhaps 400 or 500 before me. As I turned round the corner of the Westgate I saw them going up to the Westgate front door with their guns and spears and arms, and I heard some person cry out, " Fire," twice or three times. I believe there were captains over every ten, but I did not hear only my own order. There were parsons giving directions as we went along, but my captain was not there. Before we set off from the Welch Oak or Newbridge, I did not hear any one say where we were to go, no further than that we were to go after Mr. Frost. I did not see a person of the name of Rees that night ; I beg pardon, when I said that I did I made a mistake ; as I believe the man iwho it was said came as a messenger from Mr. Frost was a man of the name of George Read. The Attorney-General—The witness, my Lord, in his deposition, had stated that the man's name was " Rees," but he now finds it to be " Read." Examination resumed—Did you hear that person say where you were going ? Sir P. Pollock objected to the question. This was at a time previous to the prisoner's having been shown to be at all in connexion with the matter, and therefore what ever any person might have then said as to where they were going, or what they were going to do, could not be evidence against the prisoner at the bar. Lord Chief Justice Tindal—But supposing in answer it is said-.-... A messenger came and gave directions as to where to join Mr. Frost," is that to be shut out? It is shown that this body did join Mr. Frost, and to show how, we must go by steps. Mr. Baron Parke—Perhaps the more regular way will to object to the question, and then the point will be argued upon that question. Sir F. Pollock contended that nothing which wits said by Read at that Chartist lodge could be given in evidence against the prisoner, as he was neither present, nor had he at that time been shown to have had any communication with them. Lord Chief Justice Tindal—You had better, brother Ludlow, ask—" Did anybody give directions ?" Mr. Baron Parke—For suppose five passengers had come up to them and said that they were to go and meet Mr. Frost, that you know would be evidence. Mr. Sergeant Ludlow—Were any directions given you at the lodge ? Witness—l heard at the lodge where we were to go to. We were to go to Newport. George Read told me so. It was at the lodge. Did George Read give any directions to you, or say anyl thing further ? Sir F. Pollock objected to this being received in evi dence as against Mr. Frost. Their Lordships would ob serve that there was no evidence of Mr. Frost having met them at all, earlier than at the Welch Oak; that they were to meet him there I admit, my Lords. Mr. Baron Parke—We have not got that in evidence yet, Sir Frederick. Sir F. Pollock—No, my Lord ; but I concede that. I do, however, object to the vague directions given by a ny other person as to what they were to do, as being received as evidence against Mr. Frost, unless it were shown that he was either present then, or that he had been present at some prior meeting sanctioning this course. Mr. Kelly followed. He would submit to their Lord ships that this could not be evidence againbt Mr. Frost, To any questions asked as to Frosts haling ,party at the Welsh Oak, and Ro ... , ,uied them t o —ewport, we do N e do not ob4ec,t do we'Objeet to evidence that there were Uireeitons to follow Mr. Frost. Mr. Baron Parke._But you object to declarations made by any persons prior to that meetingat 12, o' c l oc k on t h e , 511 3 44 Y 0.01, To what passed afterwards you do not poject." Mr. Kelly—No, my Lords, The Lord Chief Justioe—Do the parties for the Crown intend to carry it further than to that point? 7 The Attorney- General rose, and was about to reply, when Mr. Baron Parke said—But, at present, you have not shown that there were any directions to meet Mr. Frost. Had you not better first prove that fact? The examination rcsuraed—W e had directions at New bridge to meet Mr. Frost, and it was said that he was gone on to Cefn-de-Machogr,. We were told this at Newbridgs, at about 10 o'clock on the Sunday night. The Welch Oak is higher up than the Gehl. We were told at Rises that they had halted at the Welch Oak, and it was said that Mr. Frost was there. Ido not know.,who it was said that, but it was a mob of person s at Rises bridge. It was at the lodge that we were told by G eorge R ea d t h at we were to go to Newport ; this was at Argoed, and at about five o'clock on the Sunday evening. Most of the persons at the lodge went with me to the Welch Oak, where we met Frost. Mr. Sergeant Ludlow_l now propose to ask the wit ness, my Lords, if anything was said before they came to the Welch Oak of what they were to do at Newport? Sir F. Pollock—l think this cannot be asked, although I admit, that after Frost joined them, the vague observa tions of any of the party might be made, perhaps, matter for remark, but only so ; but any observations made pre. viouly are not admissible, merely because they were told that they were to meet Mr. Frost, and that they did after wards do so. Now, how could any cue, according to any reasonable construction of the rules of evidence, which are sufficiently loose, and very properly so— how could any one seek to make the prisoner answerable for the ♦ague expres sins of any one of, say 500 persons, previously to his being shown to be at all mixed up with them, merely because some one might have said that they were to meet him ? I doubt very much whether, even in the ordinary case of a conspiracy, in which almost anything can be proved, I doubt whether what one of the conspirators who was not indicted with the rest might have said in his private chamber, or to another person not connected wii.h the conspiracy, would be evidence against any one but him self ; against himself, if indicted, it most surely would be evidence ; but it certainly would not be evidence against any other of the conspirators. Your Lordships will, perhaps, recollect that in Lord George Gordon's case, it was sought to prove what were his intentions—then all London was for ten days in the bands of an infuriate mob. The Lord Chief Justice's house was, I believe, burnt down; there were 300 fires, and yet he was not held accountable for those acts. Mr. Justice Williams—Because these things were done afterwards. Sir F. Pollock—Some of them were afterwards, but some of them were, I believe, consecutive. Now suppose, for instance, that at a meeting of the Chartist Lodge reso lutions were put as to what was to be done ; that certainly would not be evidence against Mr. Frost, unless it was shown that he was connected with it. The question put was, with what object was it that you were to go ? and he submitted to their Lordships that such a question could not be put as evidence against Mr. Frost. Mr. Kelly followed on the same side. The question sought to be obtained was what were Mr. Frost's inten tions ? Now, this must be inferred from two sorts of evi dence—first, from acts done by him or those with whom he was acting in concert, or by the declarations made by him or them. Now, no objections had been taken either by his Learned Friend or himself to anything being given in evidence which was done or said from the time the as stmlny on the Sunday night took place, and the prisoner was one of that assemblage, although it might have been out of his hearing ; but his Learned Friends were now proposing to prove the intentions of Mr. Frost, not by any thing said or done by him, but by a something said in his absence by some person who, it was said, was his messen ger, but who had not been shown to be so ; nor was it even attempted to be shown that the prisoner knew anything whatever of the matter until he now heard it for the first time : how then could that be made evidence against him? He would now call their Lordships' attention to Mr. Star kie's observations, vol. ii., p. 234, under the head " Con spiracy," in which it was said, " It seems, however, on the other hand, that a mere gratuitous assertion inculpating himself and others, although made by a fellow-conspirator, would not be evidence against any one but himself. As against himself it would be evidence, on the general ground that any declaration or admission connected with the charge, be it oral or written, is admissible in evidence against the party who makes it, but as againstfanother person it is no more than the mere gratuitous declaration of a stranger not upon oath." Now this showed, therefore, that there must be evidence to go to the Jury to show that Read, when he made this statement, was acting in conjunction with Frost, and for this conspiracy. Mr. Starkie then went on to say : —" Although in general, upon principles already adverted to, the act or declaration of one man is not evidence against another who is charged as a fellow conspirator until such a privity or community of design has been established between them as affords a reason able presumption that the act or declaration of one is the act or declaration of the other, made with his sanction, arid therefore indicating his mind and intention ; and although it follows from these principles that such a con nexion must be established before the acts and declara tions of one man can properly be ased as evidence to show the designs of another, yet in some peculiar instances, where it would be difficult to establish the defendant's privity, without first proving the existence of a conspiracy, a deviation has been made from this rule, and evidence of the acts and conduct of others, has been admitted to prove the existence of a conspiracy previous to the proof of the defendant's privity." Then Mr. Starkie cites Hardy's case. But this was an indictment for high trea. son, and he would suppose for a moment that a meeting was to be held under the presidency of the High Sheriff in the County-hall of Monmouth, and that a person in tending to be present at that meeting sends a messenger to another person at a distance to meet him at that county meeting; suppose that that meeting changes its character, its legal character, and becomes a treasonable meeting, and the first person remains there until it is dangerous to his safety to remain any longer, and that he is after wards indicted for high treason, could the declaration of any other party made previously be used as evidence against him because of its being said that he had sent a messenger desising the attendance of the other? Sup posing, for instance, that Read had said, " We aro to as sasinate every Magistrate, to break down the bridge, and then to march on to London and depose the Queen," would that be evidence against Mr. Frost? Their Lord ships would see that if anything which occurred be fore be was shown to be connected with the matter was to be evidence against him, how fearful it would be. What man's life wonld be safe? How was he to defend himself against that which ho then heard for the first time, and by which it was sought to affect his life ? lie could not conceive in what mode their Lordships could submit this evidence to the Jury. Read, who was supposed to have made this communication with the authority of Mr Frost, was not one of the parties in the indictment. If he was living, why was ho not produced ? Mr. Baron Parke said he did not understand that the question put by the Learned Sergeant applied particu larly to Read. He took the question to be, " Was it said at the Chartist lodge at Argued that they were to gn, to Newport, and for what purpose ?" The answea• j a , that question might show that a certain numbe- f of per sons assembled at the lodge, having a de6aaite object in view. Supposing that object to have been to take posses sion of Newport and assassinate the Magistrates, was not that admissible evidence ? It would 'clo for the Jury after wards tojudgo from other cvidenco whether the prisoner at the bar had concurred in that design. Mr. Kelly apprehended that The evidence was not ad missible. Supposing such words were used at the Char tist lodge, still, if it was not proved by some act that Mr. Frost participated in the design, the whole of the evidence was useless. On the other hand, if any act was proved on the part of Mr. Frost, by that act he must be judged, and not by the evidence now proposed to be adduced—not by what was said by other persons, of whom the prisoner knew nothing. That evidence might be good against the parties who uttered the words, and against those who heard them, because their acts might be coupled with the words; but Frost could not be bound by what somebody bad said to somebody else, unless it was communicated to him, or unless Frost had given precise authority for the utterance of the language. The Attorney-General was about to reply, but the Court did not deem it necessary to hear him. Lord Chief Justice Tindal said, it appeared to him that the evidence was admissable on the principle established in all other cases. What its value might be would be matter for observation at a subsequent period. It was very true that the mode of showing conclusively that a conspiracy had been entered into by various persons was by showing an tecedent acts that brought them together. But that was not the only mode of proving a conspiracy. Its existence might be show:, by acts afterrwards done by •,: ee parties, leaving it to be inferred by the Jury whaether or not there was a common design among the ~ a'arties. Tho question now was whether, when the 13 ';,soner was found accompanying a certain body of me;, from the Welch Oak to the W estgate I nn, that vvl“. ell had been resolved on by this body of men should soe admitted in evidence ? Un doubtedly this evidence,3 if it should have no reference to facts afterward to be proved, must fall to the ground; but if an agreemell't had been come to by a body of men to do the yen: Laing which was afterwards done in the presence, P.'...,1 with the participation of the prisoner, it might be supposed that the design of the mob was communicated to him as they went along. At any rate, the Court had no right to anticipate at the present moment what the effect of the evidence might be as respected the prisoner. l a one way it would make no evidence against him, while in another point of view it might be evidence, supposing it to be strengthened by other evidence afterwards to be given I in the course of the investigation. Mr. Baron Parke and Mr. Justice Williams expressed 1 the s ime opinion. Mr. Serg. Ludlow then resumed the examination of the witness, and put the question which had been objected to. Witness said they were told to go to Newport.. They were to go there to stop the coaches, and, and all traffic, Witness asked w h at they werewin g to do be aido.., it was said they were to stop there to guard the town. Met Mr. Frost at the Welch Oak at midnight. After that witness was told that Mr. Frost had gone away. lie saw Frost afterwards coming back to the Welch Oak at the break of Jay, together with a great many others, who followed him. They had in their hands spears, and gum, and arms of different kinds. The people had goato to the Welch Oak at midnight, waited there until Trost came, and then went on to Newport. Cross-examined by Sir F. Pollock—Witn.ess first met Frost at the Welch Oak at midnight. 1-fad seen Frost before, and knew him. Saw him comilig back at break of day, between six and sovon o'clocia. Between midnight and break of day made no inquiries for Mr. Frost. The lodge took ialaco on Saturday night at Argoed. It was u ~-igs,n of Chartists. Had not been at the lodge before since last harvest. Paid no money or attention to them. 1 - lad been at their meetings three or four times when he went to the house for a drop of beer. The lodge was held at Argood every Saturday night, and this waa . : publicly known, he su pp ose d, a ll over th e place. At the lodge they paid a penny a night. Wit 7 ., ne' did not see them eat or d r i n k. T wo persons were i..:: tting at each end of a large table writing names and .: ee m v i ng . money. The room w ou ld h o ld a b out twenty persons. More w ere ., Because some Were coming present on th e S atur d ay n i g h t . up and some going down. Knew that . `,: ioorge Read way present; Read is a atoemaker : ' , nine nlontbs • gut 100 yards from witness, ea , nag anown liimeigßht ox d Ml . ' ; ; le lived al,- - is a marri e d man . Witness knew/be publican wheret7ko. -, lodge was held, and two or three More by their faces. ..../i4 riot know any man of the name of George Rees; 5412144 making his atate men t b e f ore the:Magistrates respecting. 1 the messenger, he said his nam6 wa,.Geonge Rees, in stead of Read, and a collier instead ef....i(4erviker. On his solemn oath does not knowla masalt,bpo l uala v epf Gbp Rees living at A rgue d, w i t hi n 100 o u r iirdsf, oft Itua• Witness came to that Court from the Union at Newpbrt ; is kept in the Union; dares say it is not the first time he has been confinement ; does not know where be has been in confinement before; has been in confinement once before. six or seven years ago, in the gaol at Usk. He was con fined for three months; was convicted at the sessions for taking a bit of coal; means by " taking" stealing a bit of coal ; witness was wounded in front of the Westgate Inn, on the 4th of November ; was taken up as one of the Chartists about 10 o'clock in the morning. Has been in confine ment ever since. It was at the meeting at Argped on Sunday night that it was said they were to go to New port to stop the coaches and all traffic. George Read, the shoemaker, said so. Read also said, "Be sure to bring arms with you." Somebody said, " Did we propose to carry the meetings peaceably throughout the country ? instead of that we are carrying arms, and we know that it is against the law ;" but the messenger said, " If we we do not break the old law, :we shall never get a new one.." They were to do nothing besides stopping the coaches, stopping the post, and all traffic at Newport. Witness first agreed to give evidence for the Crown when examined. Was examined by Mr. Edwards, a Magistrate, at the Westgate Inn. Was examined before that time by Mr. Edwards, who Came to him while witness was ia his bed. Mr. Edwards said to him, " Alattli - ew, bow , be you ?" Witness replied, " Very bad ;" when Mr. Edwards said, " Well, you must tell me the truth, and how you came to this," and witness then told him. Mr. Edwards examined witness before being taken to the Magistrates. Mr. Edwards did not say that if witness told the truth be would get off. Did not think at all about being imprisoned, because at that time he ex pected to die. Mr. Edwards told him he would be severely punished. He was afterwards carried to the Magistrates. When called up in the morning, witness took a walking.. stick with him. Had no other weapon ; it was a walking_ stick, but not trimmed off, for he took it in a hurry in his I hand to go with the people. This happened on Sunday night, about seven o'clock, before he had been ,i . 'sl, bed a n • hour. Never was in gaol on any other charge, excepting about the coals. Does not remember being in custody o n any other charge. Remembers being taken up some few years ago at Newport for leaving his children, though b. ; had not left them ; had only gone to seek for employment. Was not detained on this charge half an hour. That was the only time he was ever taken up before. Was never charged with sheep stealing. The coals he stole were worth lid., and he was imprisoned three months fow taking them. Re-examined by Mr. Sergeant Ludle'w—When Mr. Edwards came to witness, was very Min bed, and consi dered his life in danger. By the Jury—Did not know who took down tie names at the lodge. It was with the captain that they made an appointment to meet a second time on Sunday. George Read said himself that he was a messenger from Mr. Frost ; waited at the Welch Oak from midnight to day break, because he was afraid to go away: witness un derstood that the people were to stop there until Mr. Frost came back ; three months ago, if he had met George Reed, should have addressed him by the np7, 13 of Rees. James Hodge called and examined by the P o li c i tor. General—Witness lives near Blackwood ; tnows Mr. Frost; remembers Sunday, November 3. Mr. Kelly here observed, that he intendrzd to take !A I objection to the description of this witne ss, as given in the list of witnesses ; and proposed to n some questicms to him on the noire dire. The Solicitor-General objected, tleat as the wif eless h a d been sworn in chief, it was too lac e to swear Vern on the voire dire. Mr. Baron Parke said tha t some witnesses had already been first swore in chief, and afterwards examined on the voire dire. This was Certainly an irregular cours e , an d would be better in fetture to adhere t o th regular form of proceeding. Mr. Kelly was then permitted to examine the witncee. who was described as being of Woodfield, near Blacktveod. From his evidence it appeared that he was at More meet e on the 11th of December, where he stayed aleout two nights; that he then went to Newport and 'Stayed two nights there, and then returned home, where he remained three, four, or fiv e d a y s . H e a f terwards left his hon . and went to Newport, and lived at the Salutation end other public-houses, until his presence was required a t Monmouth. Mr. Kelly submitted to the Court, whether the 'descrip tion in the list was sufficient. J' was not only eeeeseary to look at th e wor d s o f t h e stveute, but also ite spirit and object. He need not rerr'Lnd their Lordshien that Lord Tenterden had laid it deee n on the subject of: treason, that the description of th'e witnesses must be such as would enable e fo e unTindalLor said, th e o bj ect of requiring dtchehmiefto jus t ice the descrirAion was that duo inquiry ?night be made re speetle.g the character of the witneses. Kelly submitted that the object was more extensive. It was intended to give to the prisoner an opportunity sending parties on his behalf to see the witnesses hims, if and not merely to make inquiry about their character. It I might be essenti a l t o t h e pr i soner for some p ellen acting for him to see a particular witness, in order, if that witness were going to speak to a certeain fact, that the pri soner might be in a position to contradict hire. In this very case the witness in the box was a very ir.opeeitant one ; and it was of the utmost co*asequence to the prisoner to have been able to find are witness, and cause him to be identified. What infor-.nation did the d escr i pt i on i n the list afford ? Woodfie ) ,d, near Blackwood, might be the witness's general piece of abode ; but then he went from his home just at the time, or even before the time, when the list of witnesses was delivered to the prisoner, and left. no word where he was to be found. Lord Chief Justice Tindal —How would yon have de _ scribed his abide? Mr. Kelly would have described him as being of Wood field, but row residing at the Salutation public-housee New port. Mr. Baron Parke—According to the evidexces he was at home on the 17th of December. Mr. Kelly—l thi n k y ou will find it nit so, my Lord. He was exami ne d b e f ore t h e grand jury on th e 1 1t h of December; he stayed in Monmouth two nights. This brings it to the 13th. He then 'iter.tt to Newport and stopped there two nights,lbringireg 'it up to the 15th. He then goes home, and remains th,ere three, four, or five days. Mr. Baron Parke—That l erings ti * i to the 17th of De cember. Mr. Kelly —The evidence was given by the witree es with 'lone degree ef uncertainty. He might have left his br.,me at the time the list of witnesses was given to the. prie soner, and certainly before it could be acted upon. Lord Chief Justice Tindal—According to the eci'aiessls own account, he was moving about from public,-house to public-house; and if he had been described as l' ff i ng i n one of these publi c -h ouses , i t m i ght have been obj ected. that as the man had a place of abode, it ought to hr ve been given. Mr. Baron Preece thought the Solicitor for the Crown was riot bound to state more than the place of abode of the witness. The Solicitor-General then reaumeee the examination in chief.—. Witness remembers Sunday, November 3d. Ir. the evening of that day, ab Jut seven o'clock, was at t'de Coach and Horses, at Blackwood. Mr. Frost was th.ere. There were a are man / persons i n th e room. rJuring theand Feeist were there, in the roce el , a man was present wearing a g l aze d h at, who said Yee had just ' come from Newport ; that the soldiers were all Chartists, anal that their arms and ammunition were 'packed up ; and that they were ready to come up. It was only for them t go daw n and fetch them. He asked 'if any person want ed arr.munition. It was said that the seildiers were in the 'ear racks. The man also said that the people ought, to be out on the road with guns tr, stop any reereon that passed. He said, " Come breehers, it is time we were off. Our enemies are flyir, g in all directions, and we ought to have been down *these two hours." The people, after what this man said, went all on the road. Some were willing to go te, Blackwood and scour the wood, and some would not. 'These was a "stagnation" at the time when Mr. Frost put himself at their head, and told them to follow him. Upon that the people turned about and followed Mr. Feast. There was no parti cular form observed in znarebing. Mr. Frost told them to follow him to the Cefn. He (Frost) said they shoul• there meet 'Zephaniah Williams, with 5,000 men. a. o d Jones, at P ontypoo l, w i t h 2,00 0. T hey then went to _ wards Frost were armed, some with pik es , others. KithKith guns the Greyhound at Cern. The persons t eellowing and sticks. Some were willing to go 0.11, arta som e not , Those who were unwilling were ordered to be kept up. Arrived at a place called Pie-corr,er. Saw Mr. Frost there. Mr Frost sa id the guns sh ould tak e th e f ront, the pikes next, the bludgeons next, 'and then the people with. out arms.• Was within a few v, ards of Mr. Frost when he said that. On Mr. Freest giv:ing these orders witness went to him and said, " In the r.dme of God what was he going to do ?—was he e . ,oing to attack any place or people ?" He said he was. ; that he was going to attack Newport and take it, to lelow up or to blow down the bridge, Menefe e I could not say which, and stop the Welch mails from pry. seeding to Birmingham ; that there would be - three dele gates there to wait for the post an hour and a heat after time, and if it did not arrive in time the (*WA was to commence at Birmingham ;_from thence i.e would spread to the berth of England and Scotland, rend thitt, would be a 4443 for the whole nation. Witnes - ,4 told Mr. Frost he atlig!at as well lead them to a s'saughterhouse to be slaughtered, and that he imita',ed a butcher lead ing a flock of lambs to the i l .aughterhouse. Witneu begged of him to desire, the reign to return to the hills. Mr. Frost replied, " J:JO you, think so ?" and turned *way with a scornful look ,as witness thought. This happened at Pie-corner after break of day. The road was lined with people further t l ean he could see. Witness did not after , wards remain with the mob. Jumped into the briars and ' brambles wed hid himself for some time, and thus escaper, ? , going he,me as fast as he could. Had endeavoured to es cape before, at Risca in particular, but was prevente d b T people placed on the road, and compelled to go re 4 . A great many persons were forced in different place-, aga i nst I their will. On Sunday night before start',nre the pass words were gi ven at t h e C oach and Hors,, The pan , words were Beans" and " Well." P'ersons whom they sent opt, and who did not know these reass-words were to be made p r i soners. I k now Jones 'f Pontypool ' . I had seen Frost in the kitchen of the Cc,ach and 'Horses on the Friday night, and I saw ,ones ire the passage. Chartist lodges woe held at thre t house. There was a meeting of: delete ':: es that night ...here. I attended that meeting —,es ',as held in the lor„e room. Cross-examin - e d by Mr. Kelly—Tell me the 'name of one person,if, you can, who was forced to procr ed against his will?—.it is a thi ng i mposs ibl e for a riven to tell the names r:nen so many h un d re d s were a b oiet, 1 epeat my question—_l ask you tilt name of any one person forced against his will. Can . you give me same le-other-in-law for another. or not can give you my O Give me your brother-in -law sr,n name for one ; any 's name ?—Thos. Williams. Where does he live At the same place I live myself. EVEN iNG EDITION. TIIE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, JANUARY 4, 1840. VENTING EDITRIN.