The Sun. — London, England, 1840-03-10 00:00:00

Mr. HUME was pleased to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite admit that the sale of papers was etseful to the public ; and he was quite satisfied that thou seeds of person: in the country had been deluded in this espeet by Hon. Members speaking in the House on the subject v ,-ithout due consideration. He, for one, had had greatrelief s'nce the sale of papers took place. He looked :ith great jea.'ousy on any individuals being appointed who was to have !.he power of excluding any thing they thought proper from the Reports of Committees of that House. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL congratulated the House on the support that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member on Ripon was likei l y to give to the Bill. He concurred with the statements Which he had made with respect to the printing of the papers, and he felt convinced that if tne Right Hon. Gentleman would only return to the Committee on Printing, of which he was so useful a member, he would he received back z.75 3 in with the greatest satisfaction. With respect to th:" clause regarding pending actions, he thought it most de sirable that it should be retained in the Bill if it could be done without injustice. He admitted that it could not be retained without injustice, if it proceeded upon the statement of an excessive authority having been exercised by the Officers of the House. He, however, proceeded upon no such assumption, but upon the fact that already vexatious ac tions had been brought, and were still pending. There were numerous precedents for the enactment — on many occasions bad actions been stopped by Act of Parliament. In this case there had been no real in jury, and he would venture to say that the action.; v. ere brought merely for the purposes of vexation, to harass the House by involving it in a collision with the Courts of Law. Such being the object, no injustice would be done by the Bill. Mr. DARBY did not rise to enter into the details of the measure, he merely wished it to be understood t he reserved to himself the right to oppose the Bill at a future stage, unless something were done to secure par ties against libellous publications being made by order of the House. Sir 11.. PEEL said it had been charged against those, who had been most strenuou3 in their support of the privi:cges of the House, that they had overlooked that which was due to private par ties. but Honourable Members would see that that charge was unfounded, by a reference to the re commenddtion of the Committee, which was appointed at the beginning of the privilege question. Sir It. INGL IS could not give a silent vote upon that question, for he had very strong objections t. all r.r post facto legiilation. He objected also to the Bill becauSe it indemnified the officers of the House cacti for an abuse of the powers committed to them. He would not give the House th:, trouble of dividing, but content Ifimielf with catering his protest aga i nst the Bill. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—After what had passed he would only say, that he would give his seriou.; at tention to the suggestions of the Right Hon. Member for Ripon, and that in a future stage he would state his impressions to the House. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to he committed on Friday. The Horse Racing Bill was read a first time. • Lord J. RUSSELL then moved the Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee of Supply. • AUSTRALIA. Mr. GISBORNE had s? , en certain statements in the newspapers of that day, in which it was said that the fund to send out emigrants to Australia was exhausted. He wished to known from the Noble Lord whether it was true. Lord J. RUSSELL said that at present the funds were exhausted, but the operations were by no means suspended. CHURCH AND COUNTY COURTS. In answer to a question from Mr. HAVES, Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill for the former Session had been much con sidered in the House of Lords, and the feeling of that House was, that it should not be proceeded with until some provision had been made for Church discipline ; and with respect to the County Courts Bill, the Lord Chancellor had wished that measure to be postponed, until he had received the report of a Commission which . : as collecting evidence relating to bankruptcy and in solvency, and that report was expected soon, and he trusted that it would not be long before the Govern ment were enabled to bring forward a measure upon the subject. CLAIMS ON PORTUGAL. In answer to questions from Lord SANDON, Lord PALMERSTON said that he had looked over the report made by Dr. Botvring that morning, and had given orders that it should be laid upon the table of the 1 House at once, and that he had received despatches from i Lord Howard, which led him to believe that the Portu geese Government were willing theta commission should sit in London to d ec id e upon the .claims of British sub jects upon them--ho trusted in a few days to have official information that they had agreed to that course. ARMY ESTIMATES. f On the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair, I Mr. HUME said that f rom statements laid on the table of the House Hon. Members would find that they were proceeding to vote thei r esta b l i shments upon I the old extravagant scale, while last year there had been an excess of expenditure over income of a million avid a ' half, and every probability of that excess this year being I two millions. Now he had always been of opinion that before any estimates at all were voted, the Government ' ought to give to the House an estimate of the whole ex pease of all the establishments together, and also an esti mate of the expected income of the country. It had been shadowed forth by the Noble Lord that shortly after Easter they were to have some new taxes. He was 1 against any taxes, and he is anted to see if they could not I do without try new ones. With that view he had been I looking at the state of the revenue, and he found that the increased expenditure had only risen from those esta blishments which were ant wally voted by that House. He was sorry to say that that system was proceeding, and up to the present time he might fairly reckon the excess of expenditure over income at six millions ster ' ling. Under these circumstances the House must see the difficulty of avoiding the imposition of new taxes. The balance sheet he held in his hand showed a defi ciency of ;i million and a half, and that was not owing to any deficiency in the revenue, for, on the contrary, the revenue was in an extremely prosperous state. Taking from the year 1833 to the present time, he was sur prised to find that the amount of the net income , exceeded the average of the last seven years. From 1833 up to the present time (with the exception of 1836, a year of uausual excitement), the average amount of the net income was forty-six millions and a quarter to forty-six and a half millions, but in 1838 the revenue was actually 47,333,0001., being about one million more than the average of the pisceding years, and yet notwithstanding all that they had the present large deficiency. The amount of their taxation for the year ending Jan. .5, 1839, was 52,949,0001., and they now thought of adding to that large amount by the im position of new taxes, after so many years of peace. That appeared to him to be a very important conside ration, and the question was how had the excess taken place ? When he looked at the army, the navy, the ordnance, and the miscellaneous estimates, he found the explanation. In 1834 the aggregate of these estimates was reurteen millions and a quarter—in 1835 it was four teen millions, something less than a quarter—in 1836 it was 13,800,0001, and then began the increase. In 1837 it was 14,392,0001.—in 1838 it was 15,229,0001. —in 1839 it was 16,000,000/. nearly, and he appre hended that the sum required for the present year would be little short of 17,000,0001., the excess over the ordinary expenditure on these items would be little less than three millions. The .number of men intended to be voted this year, was 137,232, namely, for the navy, 35,651 ; for the army, 92,899 ; and for the artillery, 8,318. Now he admitted that it was im possible for any person, except those immediately con nected with the Government, to know the exact num ber which might be required for the service of any year, but he thought it was of the utmost importance to know why so large a military force was required before they went into a Committee of Supply. The speech of her Majesty from the Throne, and the declaration of Ministers, would lead the House and the country to be lieve that they were at peace with all the world ; and he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman to explain why the force he asked for was so large, when in the year 1822 the entire number for the army, navy, and ordnance, was only 97,072 men. On a comparison of 1822 with the present year, as regarded the army alone, 1 he found an increase of 24,988 men. Of these there had been 11,500 added in the years 1837-1838. It appeared to him extraordinary that the Government should have thought of sending 15,000 additional • troops to Canada, when, had the people of the Colony been only allowed to manage their own affairs, the . country would have remained perffctli tranquil. Now, however, that Canada was at peace, IL:' thought these additional troops should be withdrawn. 5 very thing, however, depended on the policy of the Gov.rnment. Look at Ireland, which was in a state of profound The Hon. and Learned Memo tranquillity.—(Hear, hear.) for Dublin told them that if they were required, three ,7r four more regi ments might be spared. What was all il'At owing to? Why, that the Government had resolved to de justice to Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Look at England, on the other hand. There the people at large were dissatisfied, and the masses discontented and disaffected ; and the military which they had withdrawn from Ireland, were now required in England, to overawe and keep dow!t the people.—(Hear, bear.) There was a sense of injus tice and oppression rankling in the breasts of the people, and they felt that they were not par takers of equal laws and equal justice. (Hear.) There was also a police force in every town, and what reason, therefore, could there be for keeping up this enormous establishment ? They appeared to him to be going on from day to day like spendthrifts, regardless of the means by which to pay their debts ; and he be lieved it was a principle that the more a man became involved the less care he took about trifles, leaving them to take care of themselves. Her Majesty's Govern ment were running riot in expenses and establishments, forgetful of their good principles when in opposition. How lamentably they had failed with regard to reform and retrenchment. Of reform the country had got little—he hoped they would get more ; and with re gard to retrenchment, he did press upon the Noble I Lord that the course the Government was now taking must bring upon the country the most serious inconve nience, and what would be the result the Noble Lord would find to his cost. As soon as difficulties in creased, the Gentlemen on the opposite side would lay hold of them, and point out the extravagance of the Government, to show how reckless they were of the public funds, and try to convince the public they were unworthy of their confidence.—(Hear.) There might be some foundation for this. The Noble Lord had a warning of this a few days ago, and he thought that if those gentlemen .ivere not so ready themselves to encourage extravagance, hut follow his advice and be come strict economists, they would find it a much better course and much better means of getting the support ~ef the country than the course they now so unhappily f o li o wed. He had done his duty in making these ge neral oet'servations upon the military force for he had not mentioned the militia, for which we had expended 9,000,000/. sio:e the peace to no purpose whatever) and he must say :hat during the whole time he had never known so extrav:,_ezant a military establishment— (Hear, hear)—and this, too,when there was a deficiency in the revenue of from 2,500,2001. to 3,000,0001., and we were in a state of what might Tee': considered perfect peace. He had thought this the best ,`.'me for making these observation, and he should consider ::"- a duty he owed to the country, unless he heard from the tight Hon. Gentleman some good reason for an addition io our military force, to take the sense of the Committee upon it, by proposing a reduction. Colonel SIBTHORP said he had heard from the Honourable Member for Kilkenny a great part of the speeches he had delivered on various occasions during the last three years, and he thought he should be more correct if he slid twenty years as the period the Member had been declaiming against what he and tile country thought to be the extravagance and ineffi ciency of her Majesty's Ministers. He (Col. Sib thorp) entertained no respect for them so far as poli tical feelings went, but though the Hon. Member had been declaiming against that side of the House, he in variably disappointed them—he asked what was the cause of this excess—what could be the cause of it —the want of good working ; yet though the Hon. Member knew this as well as he, he invariably sat down after making his speech, without taking a single effectual measure to turn them over.—(Laughter.) Could be effect this no man would rejoice at it more than he—(Col. Sibthorp.) With all this declamation how in the name of goodness happened it that the Hon. Member continued to support Ministers instead of taking effectual measures to supplant them, which if he would do he should have his cordial support. The Hon. Member talked of withdrawing troops from Canada—he thought a further increase necessary if' the Government went on as they did. He (Colonel S.) had not assented to any one act of her Majesty's Go vernment—no man living had a worse opinion of them in their political and official capacity—they knew nothing, and he thought if they did they were not dis posed to act upon it. As he had said, on a former oc casion, there was joy in heaven over repenting sinners, and, therefore, he hoped they would take his advice, , and change their course before it was too late.- Lord JO II N RUSSELL said it was hardly neces sary that the Hon Member for Kilkenny had gone over ground he had repeatedly traversed before. The Hon. Gentleman always maintained that having ascer tained the amount of revenue, the Government ought strictly to limit the public expenditure within it, to tally disregarding the wants of the country, the state of our foreign relations, and our colonial force—that was a principle the House had never agreed to, and to which he trusted it would never be disposed to agree. The Hon. Gentleman had said truly, that he ought to have made his objection in the vete of the navy estimates, and he (Lord John Russell) thought that would have been the proper occasion, when , i n truth, the Government had asked for a considerable increase, amounting to 400,000/. ; whereas the Army Estimates were thirty thousand pounds less fore if the Honourable Genntlemeabn past had in the present year than i th should revenu e a , t h a e ll should times had asked for a considerable i haveb e regulated said so when ' the tlie With thought Government regard to the necessity for that course h n e c i r l e a a d se. stated the reason in the month of August last, and he thouh bad met with the general concurrence of the House. tthey H e bed placed it on two grounds —one the state of the try—there being at that period considerable excitement ; coun try—there whereas it was now in a state of quiet, for he did not agree with the Hon. Gentleman that the state of the co untry at present was the same as that of Newport another ground was the necess i ty o f a f orce in Canada. ; The Hon. Gentleman h a d said that necessit y was a fel- lacy, and he had made several recommendations on the subject, the effect of which he (Lord J. R.) thought would have been the establishment of a French Republic in that country. He therefore could not recommend the Sovereign to adopt them, and he thought the support then given by the House to the Crown had enabled the Crown to retain those people in allegiance. Another rea son was the giving relief to regiments that had been there for man y years. He believed:it was a right principle that ' Itroops who were sent upon colonial service should, after 10 y ears , re t u rn to this country and remain for a certain The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply. Mr. MACAULAY said that the debate which had just taken place had relieved him from the necessity of remarking on what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Any person who had heard that Hon. Member's speech that evening, if he had been pre viously unacquainted with the subject, would have imagined that he (Mr. Macaulay) was about to propose a large increase to the present military establishments, whereas the fact was, that in August last the Hon. Gentleman had in that House, when his Noble Friend had proposed an addition of 75,0001. to the Military Establishment of the country, declared that he would not take upon himself the responsibility of decreasing the military establishment of the country. Yet he, (Mr Macaulay) was about to propose a diminution of that force, and there was no argument which the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had advanced on that subject, which would not have been of equal validity in the month of August last, and consequently it was the duty of the Hon. Member to have advanced those argu ments at that period. The Noble Lord at that time had proposed an addition of 6,519 men to the forces, with an additional expense of 75,000/. a year to that addition ; the Honourable Gentleman declared he would not take upon himself the responsibility to object ; of the number of troops which he was about to propose, a considerable number were for Indian purposes, and the expense of those troops would be borne by the Indian empire. The total number of troops which he proposed the Committee to vote amounted to 109,818, of which 102,104 were for the general purposes of the kingdom, leaving 7,904 for the services of the Indian empire. There was an addition to the colonial forces amounting to 4,088, which he wished to explain to the House in order to refute what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. This number of men had been added in the colonial regiments. There were 350 men, for instance, added to the Ist West India Regiment. and he hoped that these men would be of great use, as saving the health of Europeans, and doing tbat duty which would otherwise devolve upon European troops in that unhealthy climate. There was also an addition to the regiments .in Malta, and to the militia in Bermuda. This addition was proposed in Bermuda, because it was considered better that a por tion of the inhabitants of the island of Bermuda should be appended to the regiments stationed in that island, and thus should have an opportunity of acquiring a knowledge of the best system of military discipline, and after a certain portion of the population had served in this way they should be succeeded by others, so that eventually the whole of the population should ac quire a knowledge of military discipline. It had been thought necessary to make an addition of five hundred. There were eighty-five battalions in the United Kingdom, and to each of these it had been thought necessary to make an addition of 65 men ; at present those battalions consisted each of 835 men, and it hail been thought necessary to raise them to 900 men. This addition of 65 men had been made by adding 4 sergeants, 4 corporals, and 57 men to each battalion. To the 21 battalions which were in India an addition had been made of 250 men, that is to say, they had been raised from 835 men to 1,185 men. The Hon. Member for Kilkenny had insinuated that the Government had proposed increased estimates, for the purpose of increasing their patronage. Now the fact was, that, according to the proposed „stimates, her Majesty's Government would not have he means of providing for a single ac quaintance, Pr of obliging an individual 10/. householder ; they would have no means of in creasing the patronage of the Crown whatever. The only additional force proposed was that which was added to the Ist West India Regiment, and the Go vernment would not derive from that the means of obliging a single friend. There was a slight increase in some of the charges, which he felt called upon to explain. In consequence of the increase which had recently taken place of 20,000 men in the military force of the United Kingdom, various applications had been made at the War-office for a supply of books and re &ions tracts ; and, considering the increa s e which bad taken place, and the religious wants of those persons and their connections, who had recently enlisted, he had proposed the slight increase of 2001. under that head—(Hear, hear)—and he thou., ht the House would consider that he was justified in proposing that slight increase as an additional item in the usual estimate. There was also a slight increase in the item of good conduct pay. The full effect of the system of good conduct pay would not be completely felt until the year 1843. In the year 1836 it had been proposed that a soldier who had behaved well for seven years, and during the whole of that period had not sub jected himself to punishment, reprimand, or animadver sion, should be entitled to receive an allowance in ad dition to his day's pay, under the head of good conduct pay, but soldiers who had been previousl' entitled by length of service to additional pay, were permitted to have the option whether they would receive the old additional pay, or whether they would take their chance of their good conduct pay, and those who had et.- listed in the year 1836 had the option given to them whether they would place themselves upon the list for good conduct pay, or whether they would remain as for merly, and take their chance of additional pay for length of cervice; consequently the full effect of the good conduct pay would not be felt till 1843 ; nevertheless a considerable addition would have to be made in 1840. Those who had the option of receiving either the additional pay, or the . good conduct pay, were neverthelessectitled an wear the good conduct badge , ; and be was h a ppy t o state that the number of soldiers wearing the •good conduct badge amounted to 15,000. In the estimates of last year the sum of 240,0001. had been proposed for victualling 100,000 men. He had to propose in that a slight increase: the sum he proposed now was 955,000/. One cause of this increase was the dearth which had happened in Australia, The troops sta tioned in that colony were in consequence obliged to pay 4d, for the same quantity of provisions which they used formerly to obtain for Id. The consequence was that they were almost entirely deprived of the use of tea and vegetables. They bad, consequently, been reduced from three meals a day to two meals, and one lof there was a scanty and unsavoury meal of oatmeal. Under these circumstances it had been found impos sible to keep up that s trict discipline which was ne lweutehsdiseatibr e y ta t u o cin thehtitob‘uevrnetdlole brgeio cong4nsitde t r oops and the discipli ne erabie rgTaxation—crimes been unknown in the array bad in consequence at this scarcity began to make their apa pearance among the trig, and the officers in command tio lead paiissueconsequentlyof 2 dd. a e ee m day i to t t andYia hie to make an addi tia troapa, or, which amounted to the same thing, to make a stoppage of 2d. per day lees out of their pay, and the (loYertunent 1 at home had than ht it right to acquiesce *:.! that arrangement. There vigs a third charge in the su present es ti ma t es w hi c h was perfectly new, and the tie ! eessity for whi c h h e th o ught himself called upon to explain t o th e H ouse , an d t h a t was a c harge of 3,500/. forschoolmistresses, saw to somet 4e Hon. HouseGentlemen htat i mile ; but the woul would just "e state t year the experiment hadmade of been pr ovi ding school!, mistresses for one of the corps , ad it had been found a . i perfectly satisfactory. In consequence of that expert- ment, the Government had been induced to institute inquiries, and they found that there were upwards of ten thousand female children attached to the different regments. These poor children were liable to be moved from place to place—from Malta to Gibraltar, from Gibraltar to the West Indies, and from the West In lie:. to Halifax, and thus were deprived of those ad vantages of obtaining such an education as would enable them to obtain their living as every poor child, who was stationary in one place, had it in its power to ob tain. Under these circumstances, the Government had thought it advisable to appoint 181 schoolmistresses in addition to the schoolmasters, so as to provide the poor children with such an education as would hereafter enable them to get their own living.—(Cheers.) There was an addition of 10,0001., which was proposed for the formation of a veteran battalion in Canada. Six years ago inquiries had been made about the number of desertions that had taken place in the troops stationed ' in Canada. The number of troops stationed there at that time amounted to 2,550, and the number of de sertions to 650, whilst the total number of desertions from the whole army during the same period amounted to 2,240. Nor did these desertions in Canada consist merely of disreputable men. Some of them were some of the steadiest men in the service. Nor were they distressed men, as many of them went away leaving arrears of pay due to them. Why, should this desertion take place so particularly in our North American colonies ? The situation of a soldier there was different from what it was in any other part of the empire. In Gibraltar, the deserter would have to take refuge among strangers ; in Malta and the West Indies, all attempt at escape was barred by the sea ; in India, nothing could be imagined more forlorn than the situation of the deserter from a European re giment—wandering among a population differing in colour and language from himself; and every moment within reach of the English martial law ; but, in the American colonies, the case was different—there was the greatest temptation to desert. There was an ill defined and extensive frontier—ther e was the vast extent of a new country before the deserter, offering all the advantages of a virgin soil, high wag e s, and th exaggerated descriptions of the prosperity of a new country, besides the facility of carrying all his plans into effect. It had therefore been wisely propo sed that Canada should be the last colony to which a regiment should be sent, after having gone to every other colony of the empire, so that almost every soldier in Canada should, on the score of length of service, be entitled to good conduct pay, in addition to his regular pay, and in addition it was proposed as a stronger in ducement to keep the soldier in Canada true to his colours, to institute a veteran battalion in that colony, and as a nucleus for that battalion, a grant of 10,0001. was asked for. He would now state the sum he would ask for St. Helena. They should consider St. Helena as a place which was to be dealt with according to the difference of exigen cies. They proposed to ask for a sum of 5,0001. for that purpose, and he thought it would be exceedingly desirable to make that provision. The whole charge for the land force was 3,511,8701. The whole charge for last year, adding a supplementary estimate of 75,0004 had been 3,496,3821., making an increase of 15,8471. He would now come to the staff expenses. There was an increase on the home staff, and a de crease on the foreign staff. The increase on the pay of the entire staff was about 5501. That was to be attributed to the particular situation of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. With regard to New Brunswick, there had hitherto been a Major-General appointed to the command there, but it was now found requisite to intrust that situation, which was one of great im portance and responsibility, and requiring the highest qualifications, to a Lieutenant-General, with an increased allowance. The whole of the items for the staff were large, but that was principally owing to the state of Canada and of the island of Jamaica. Those parts of the estimates were formed in the following manner. They were formed from the actual expenditure of the previous year, because the distance of these colonies rendered it impossible to fix the expenses of the current year ; so that the estimates of 1839 were formed, as far as regarded these colonies, from the expenses of 1838, and the estimates of 1840 would be formed from the expenses of 1839. Every Hon. Member must know how great a differ ence there was in the estimates of the staff for 1838 and 1839, and no one could be surprised that that in crease should have been found necessary when the state of Canada was taken into consideration. The refusal of the Legislative Council of Jamaica to vote those al lowances which bad been previously considered a mat ter of course, had greatly added to their expenses there'; but, if he was rightly informed, there was every reason to expect that the Assembly would consent to defray those burdens. The whole expense of the staff in 1839 was 155,0001. ; for the year 1840 it would be 164,0001., making an increase of 9,0001. The Right Hon. Gen tleman proceedad to say that a matter occurred to him to which he wished to call the attention of the House. He had to beg pardon for an error which had been made in the statement of the estimates laid before them. The mistake was in the third line of the charges ' lowed for the public department. The estimate un der that head stood as being only 516,0001., while it ought to have been 616,0001., making a differ ence of 100,000/. That had, of course, affected the balance of the whole accounts. There had been a reduction since last year in the expenses of the Military School. There was an increase, however, in the expenses of the Yeomanry ; but he thcught the House would willingly grant that additional sum, be cause through all the trials the Yeomanry had been subjected to since last year, they bad shown not only their usual spirit, but there had not been a single in stance of undue severity on their part. Under the head of reward for services there was a small reduction. In 1839, the sums alloted for those rewards amounted to 16,4201., they now amounted to 15,8451. only. There was also a reduction in the pay of General Officers. That pay amounted last year to 102,0001.—it was now only 92,0001. ; no General Officer had been promoted to regiments since last year. A reduction had taken place since last year in the number of persons receiving that pay to the amount of ten; 100 persons had ceased to receive anything from the Compassion List, and a re duction had taken place under that head. The number at Chelsea had decreased by upwards of 1,000, and there was now a balance in the hands of the Hospital of upwards of 17,0001. The superannuation list had diminished from upwards of 44,0001. to 42,000/. Before he put the vote, be could not help saying a few words in answer to some observations that had been made by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. He well knew how zealous that Hon. Member was in the discharge of his duties ; he well knew how ready he was to effect a diminution in the public expense, but he should say that he believed that that Hon. Member had never in his life given a vote more economical—more trul y favourable to civil liberty than that which he gave in last August, when he voted for an increase of 5,000 men. That was the vote which he (Mr. Macaulay) now proposed to demand. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny in thinking that unnecessary taxation was a great evil— that he did not believe that any taxation which ever bound an oppressed people was so dangerous as those disorders which 'discouraged industry, and disturbed the peace of a country. He had never for a single moment doubted that, in any great crisis, the people of England would be found marshalled on the side of order and would put forth their irresistible power against insurgents ; and he had never thought that this country could be given over as a prey to revo lution. But, at the same titne, he could not, but think it possible that one of those cities which were celebrated over the whole world for their wealth, their industry, their vast population, and for those exquisite fabrics they sent forth to all the corners of the globe—he could not but consider it possible that one of those cities might come into the hands of extravagant men, led on by false leaders, and encouraged by delusive hopes. When he considered the wealth of those cities, and the small space which they filled in proportion to their wealth—when he remembered what malignant indus try had been employed for the purpose of inflaming the minds of the people against that commerce and those resources from which their own fuel and their own clothing was derived, when he considered all this, he did not think it impossible that some great calamity might occur which the indus try of years could not amend. Once only within the memory of man had this great metropolis been aban doned to the multitude, who found them for a moment stronger than the law. He spoke of the Popery riots, in 1780, and he had no hesitation in saying that if they were to determine between the losses which bad been suffered at that time, and the sum which the Govern ment their o c w h asked,nice. The sum s c u o m u I lostd not on fora that momentoccasion i n hesitate o single h our f ar surpasse d, he believed, the sum voted' ie last A ugust f or t h e pur p o se of keeping up an addi tional for ce o f 5,000 me n. He therefore thought t hat the Hon Member for Kilkenny had never give n a more economical vote than the vote he gave on that o ccasion, or one mo re t ru l y f avoura bl e t o the people of this coon . try. It was a just and profound remark of Mem Smith, that "it had been said that standing armies had been found hostile to liberty, but that principle should be laid down with great medification." He says that , "keep in g up a we ll-di sc i p li ne d f ov a a un,pr a ,onstitutional Go vernment is one means of enabling that Govam nerit tp keep lib er t y f rom verg i ng into licentiousness." He (Mr. N.) did not pr e t en d to quote the precise words of that great .R.n but he fir.nly belie ved that that remark of hi s was not more ingeaKiecs than it was just, and its justice h a d b een prove d by the eiccierienee of last year. He believed that the case a few months ago with the Governnielg was simply this, either to increase their military force gs - ali ti y , cse tp k=eys recourse to the system lieved that h a ve voted last year against adopterbylAr, Pitt and Loiel . Liverpoi, • he Ltea a whoever woe • ...sted ftir the the grant to 5,000 men would have suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act and the destruction of the liberty of the press. He was firmly convinced' of the happy effects which would follow from that mea sure. He was firmly convinced that the vote of last August was a vote of economy, and was favourable to civil liberty, and he was convinced that nothing had EV NINE EDITION. / - 1 the publications of the Hoose,in order to prevent the 1 sissuing of defamatory matter. He had a motion f on the paper for the appointment of a Com- I mittee on that subject, and he should he quite waling that the Noble Lord oppoe;ite should take the management of it into his own hands. He would' just state the nature of the che,_;l , -.3 he wished to be in:- } posed. In respect to the Votes 'of the House, he did rot propose any alteration ; the Judge 3 had thcrwelvcs admitted that their publication by the House rested on quite a distinct ground, though they used to be perused and signed by the Speaker. Neither did he mean to propose any alteration with respect to the publication of the Appendix, for in regard to that a Committee al -1 ready existed upon printed papers, which Committee, however, had not been successful in always preventing i publications of obviously libellous papers. As the publi.• attention had been called to the matter, he had no doubt that the Committee would take care that no .lefarnatory 1 matter should go forth, unless it was absolutely neees -1 :miry for the public good. Cases might occur in which It would be necessary for the public good to publish m utter criminatory of individuals, in which cases the feelin'gs and interests of individuals must give way. But, on the ~'they hand, the feelings and interests of indivi duals were oot to be wantonly injured. Now the Sup plement to the; Votes contained the petitions which were ordered to be pri.nted, and as the present practice was I to allow petitions id be printed with very little exami nation, so that those ,which contained defamatory mat ter were circulated throughout the country as eaten t sively as the Votes, and as the most innocent petitions that might be, he proposed, therefore, that no petition should be printed unless it had bes,en read at the table, and perused and approved of by thd Speaker. He ! would pass over for the present the reports; and would ~..o on to the head of " accounts and papers. sto the accounts and papers they would require no ow care than that which was taken b y the parties who presented them, and therefore with respect to them he I did not propose any further ch eck. Then as to the reports they certainly stood in need of _some check, 1 and what he would sugges t was, that in every report made by their own Committees, the Committee should state whether there was any reason why the reports should not be published generally. if the adoption of such a course would have the effect of drawing the attention of the House to the propriety, if any existed, of publishing particular reports—if the course he had proposed were adopted, then all the publications of the House would have such checks upon them as would afford security to the public against any libel lous attack ; but he should propose in addition to those 4 checks that there should be a Committee of Publica i tion, as there was already a Committee with respect i to printing. As to selling the publications of the House he for one approved of it, as he considered there could not. be a better mode of circulating their papers than by sale, provided they did not contain any dangerous mat ter. He was therefore prepared to support the resolu tion in that respect. He (Sir E. Sugden) would much 4 rather not interfere in this matter if the Noble Lord wo-uld only siky that he would either move for a Com mittee' to consider what checks should be provided—the cases to :which he referred, or would take time to consider the propoaii.en he had made, he would at once refrain from all further - interference, and would vote in favour of the Bill ; but, at tils!t same time, he must say, that if the Bill were pressed forb7ard without proper checks, be should feel compelled, hOwever reluctantly, to vote against the the third reading of the Bill. As to the clause regarding pending actions, .he thought is so ob jectionable, that unless it was withdriWP he should feel it to be his duty to move its omission. He thought that the clause could not be maintained upon boy sound principle ; and that if the House did not strike it out, it would be struck out elsewhere. He trusted, there fore, that the Noble Lord would withdraw the clause. Mr. WARBURTON thought that the passing of the Bill now under consideration of the House, and the manner of printing their papers, were distinct questions. He deprecated Hon. Members being put under duresse in order to place the printing of the pub lications of the House under certain restrictions, as . an inducement to others to press the present Bill. As to the checks upon reports which had been alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, he did not consider they were necessary, as ail the Committees of that House invariably intimated if there was anything objectionable in the reports. He must deprecate a Committee of Publication because there was already a Committee of Printing ; and if the Right Hon. Gen tleman would only return to that Committee, he might I then bring before them the points which he had now stated to the House. He was most happy to hear 1 that the Right Hon. Gentleman approved of the mode of selling the publications ; and he trusted that, upon a 1 reconsideration, he would not press all the suggestions that had fallen from him. THE SUN. LONDON, TUESDAY, MARCH 10, 18-10. eriod ; but if the proportion employed abroad was smaller than usual, he believed it would be impossible to carry that into effect. Another reason was that when the Heese agreed to that, the Commander in Chief proposed a plan by which the system of relief might be established, and which, with the approbation of the Government, was now being carried into effect. He believed it to be a system as necessary as it was just. The Hon. Gentleman had also touched on one question which he (Lord John Russell) did not wish to enter into further than was necessary to correct an error into which he (Mr. Hume) had fallen—that the whole diffi culty with regard to the Boundary question arose from the delay of his Noble Friend at the head of the Go. vernment to make a reply to the Government of the United States. The state of the question was this : his Noble Friend, in the course of last year, transmitted a project of a convention for the purpose of settling the question satisfactorily to the American Go vernment, and after a lapse of a considerable period the American Government sent back a counter pro ject. At the time this proposition of theirs reached this country, there arrived also the gentlemen who had been ordered to make a survey of those parts of the country in which the disputed boundary lay. These gentlemen were now employed in making a report of the whole survey, and as soon as the Government re ceived that, they would consider the counter propo sition of the American Government. This showed it was not the want of attention to the subject, or of making an answer to the American Government, that was the cause of the delay. Another question was that of incursions made by the citizens of the State of Maine upon part of the territory which he thought justly be longed to this country, and which was an infraction of the treaty between the Government of New Brunswick and that of the United States ; it had led to some correspondence, which had appeared, and which also led to the necessity of protecting the road from New Brunswick to Canada. That was an entirely different question, but it was necessary undoubtedly to provide, not against the projects of the general Government or President of the United States, because every thing they proposed had been dictated by the most friendly spirit towards this country, but against the incursions of thieves and disorderly gangs of persons who na turally roamed about a frontier that did not now belong to any one ; but he hoped the measures that were taken on the subject would to such an understanding that we should not have rea son again to complain of them. He would not go into the general statements which his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary at War would presently make, who would doubtless show sufficient grounds for ob taining from the House the means necessary for pro viding for the necessities of the country, and that the vote he asked for would be sufficient for that purpose, while at the same time it would afford every means of resisting aggression from whatever quarter it might come, and which, if furnished, would not be applied to any purpose but that of carrying into effect and secur ing the efficiency of the British army. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. "since occurred, which could justify her Majesty's Go- , 5e . , 3 that justice was done them,—(Loud cries of vernment in relaxing their vigilance, or in consenting " Hear, bear.") He had most unwillingly brought . not to demand snch a sum as would be necessary for the this subject forward, and he would have refrained maintenance of the internal peace of the country. He for doing so if he could only have obtained from his would now place the vote in their hands, with the Right Honourable Friend an assurance that justice strongest confidence that the House would not refuse to would be done ; but not having obtained that assurance, it their assent. The Hon. Member conclUded by moving and feeling that he was parth responsible for the present that a number of men, not exceeding 93,471, exclusive state of things, he felt bound to call upon the House to of the. force employed by the East India Company, express its opinion on the subject. should be maintained for the service of the United Mr. MACAULAY agreed with his Noble Friend as Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, from the Ist of to the injustice of which he had compleitiid, but his April, 1840, to the 31st of March, 1841. opinion was that the offer made by the E India On the vote being put, . Company was perfectly fair and lust. The complaint Mr. HUME rose and said that he should have ex- to which the Noble Lord had adverted he believed was petted from the Right Hon. Member some notice of i only applicable to the two Presidencies of Bombay the number of men to be employed in the home service. 1 and Madras, for with respect to Bengal the It would have appeared, from the address of the Right soldiers there received their rations aryl their spirit Hon. Member, which was a very eloquent one, he I money , and wire p!iieed upon as good a footing as would admit, that the only troops they had in August i English soldiers in coy part of the world. By the offer last were 5,000 men, but he forgot to tell the the East India Company had made the troops at Beni- House that they Lad forty-five thousand men be- i bay and Madras were to be placed upon the same foot sides. It had been said that economy was vulgar, 1 ing as those in Bengal ; and he ( Mr. Macaulay) con hut he (Mr. Hume) had no objection to be considered I sidered that offer so fair, that he was quite wiliirer to vulgar on that head. He did not thiek, too, that what- share the -esponsibility of accepting it with his Right ever might he said in the House, that doctrine would be Hon. Friend. much heard out of doors—that was not the first time he Sir HENRY HARDINGE said that the House heard that language—he had been before accused of a must be convinced by the speech of the Noble Lola% vulgar economy, and it bad been said that that was not and the authorities he had quoted, that there was some fit for the House. It had been said that no on e but thing very wrong in the manner of paying the soldiers persons of base and low views could have recourse to in the different Presidencies of India.—( Hear, hear, it. But let Hon. Gentlemen remember this, that they h must either have recourse to economy or to extortion. hear.) Supp os i ng th a t an o ff icer h ad 101, to rece i ve, He had seen in the letters of Lord Dudley Stuart that he would b e p a id 80 rupees ; b ut it a c i v il servant while standing with a Chancellor of the Exchequer, it had thesame amount due to him, h e w ou ld b e paidloo had- been said of them, that they were "penny wise and r n a rSu e r e a a for naturally caused sa m r e e a a t tu d o i u s ' e n o . nte T n t '' i s i n w ti a ie s a or s m utij s e e c r t v 7' h i c i li a pound foolish." Allusions of that kind, however, never I n dia . The real g question was, whether that y false ti c g ur_ made any impression on him. He would now ask rency should be allowed to remain in force. He did not how it happened that the Duke of Wellington think that the arrangement proposed by the East India with 68,000 men, maintained the peace of the country Company was a wise one, if the soldier was to be told that as well, or even better, than the present Government a piece of money was worth and counted to him at the with their increased force ? In 1838 they had but rate of 2s, 6d., w hil st i ts actual value was only 2s. He 81,000 men, while now the army amounted to 93,000 men. strongly advised the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to He (Mr. Hume) did not see any necessity for that in- d come to a settl emen t o f t h e quest i on as soon as poss ibl e, crease. It had been said that he had given an eoo ain that country. allay that irritation whi c h ex i ste d in th e m i n d s o f t h e nomical vote in last August, and he certainly found soldiers himself obliged to vote on that occasion for an increased Mr. MA CAUL A Y explained. The Company gave more force, in consequence of the disturbed state of the corn- money warra than th hat, in fact, th ere was no h ar d s hi p to b e they were nece ss it a ted to d o b y t h e R oya l try. But ed of. he had also stated, at the same time, that he complain so hoped a speedy remedy would be put to the discontent Sir HENRY HARDINGE begged to be allowed to which then prevailed. Had that been done ? If it explain his meaning. Suppose a soldier in India wished had net, the Government were to be blamed, and if' to purchase his discharge, the regulation price was 30/., it had, they could have no necessity for the increased but in India he would be obliged to pay CM ; or, again, demand which they now made.—(Hear, hear.) suppose that a soldier died in the hospital in India, and Undoubtedly, whenever there was any disposition to that a balance of 81. was due to him, when that suet came endanger life or to destroy property it ought to be sup- to be remitted to his family in England it was reduced to 61. Tnat was very unjust b o th t o t h e so ldi er an d t h e pressed. But there was no necessity for the present force, with the facilities which now existed for the trans- officer ' mission of troops, in the most rapid manner, to different Right Hon Gentleman was that the pay of the soldier was parts of the kingdom.—( Hear.) Besides there was 91-d. and 8-}d., whereas, in fact, by the Royal Warrant, the the police—a civil force—known to the constitution long soldier was only entitled to 7d., which was, in fact, as before a standing army was admitted. It was entirely nearly as possible, equal to the value of the rupee at 2s. Oid, a question of degree. He (Mr. Hume) had never joined Lord HO WIC K did not approve of the proposal of the in the indiscriminate outcry against a standing army. It East India C om p an y t o pl ace t h e t h ree P res id enc i es on would be recollected that when the Right Hon. Pre'si- the same footing as that of Bengal. Lord William Ben dent of the India Board (Sir J. C. Hobhouse) had in tinck, who was no mean authority on the subject, in his former years spoken against a standing army at all, he Minute, sent home to the Government in 1834, pointed had defended it. He had done so on this ground, that out the danger of not doing justice to the soldier in India; on the common principle of division of labour it was and considering the various expenses which are thrown better to have a portion of the population-set apart for upon him in that country as compared with other places, military purposes than to have a half-and-half kind of he was of opinion that he did not receive that rate of pay t soldiery—such forces, for instance, as the Yeomanry or to which he was entitled. In Bengal the rations of the the Volunteers—(Hear,hear)—to which he had always troops wasfounelby the East India Company, while in Bo objected—considering it highly undesirable that men system m Bombay y which and was Madras ta fi t o h i e t y c i had regimental satisfactory co ntra to cts the a should be called out to act in a hostile manner against troops. Now, if the three lmore Presidencies were placed upon their immediate neighbours. He believed it tended the same footing as Bengal, they would deprive the sol much to create ill feeling and promote disaffection.— diers of their reeimental messes, and he trusted the Go (Hear, hear.) But the soldiery did their duty as matter vernment would not consent to any such proposition. of fixed, habitual discipline—that was known and felt, Sir. JOHN, 1-10BHOUSE said the arrangement re and hence they were much more fitly and effectually ferred to in Lord William Bentinck's minute, was entered employed to suppress popular ebullitions than the into with the East India Company in 1796, and had con- Yeomanry, and he considered ten soldiers of more value tinned up to the present period, he - did not mean to say without complaint or remonstrance, but with ou t any w hi c h than a hundred yeomanry for the preservation of the - peace.---( Hear.) Look, for example, to what had taken a?peered to the Government to be well f oun d e d. The place at Newport, which showed how very small a proposition of Lord William Bentinck was duly cons id ere d, and a despatch framed at the India House, and transmitted military force would serve in such unhappy emergencies. to the Commander-in-Chief, stating that the statement Now, for what reason could eleven thousand men have was incorrect that the soldier did not receive as much silver been added to the army since 1837 ? The old pretence as he was entitled to upon his Majesty's warrant, as, in of relief was urged as usual. Why not then put an end fact, he received more. If there were any grievance, to the depot companies? As to Colonial corps he the Government was willing to rectify it; and he was glad that subject was to receive attention. He would take the liberty of telling his Noble Friend it was the last man in the House to wish soldiers to be would have been notified a year and a half ago, but more than ten years from their country. But he was for the friendly controversy between them on the subject. He ( Sir J. C. Hobhouse) contended the soldier sure the principle of selection (as we understood) to dnow recone d eive er h d a a N much ch e F laxg d er , amount than he . would have different destinations would greatly obviate the notes- now warrant ; and did his Noble sity for reliefs. He did not conceive there was any Friend see the danger of agitating these questions ? did necessity for the vote of 93,000 men., He should move he recollect what occurred in 1798, when a representation its reduction to the amount in 1837, and subsequently o f a King's Warrant, with reference to the pay of the he should be happy to move and carry a further redue- troops, arrived in India through some unofficial channel Lion to what was the amount in former }ears. He before it was promulgated in the usual mode by the Corn now moved that the vote be reduced to 81,319 men. ' mander-in-Chief? A,:d what was the consequence ? The Mr. WILLIAMS seconded the amendment, troops took the alarm and mutinied, and remained in General SHARPE said be believed the present mutiny ten days, and wrung from the Commander-in-Chief number of men was necessary to preserve the safety of a positive promise for th e redress of their grievanc e s, the country. He did not think the police force with though it was true the Govern m ent did not altog e ther a ct their staves could safely supersede the necessity for any on o the_ promise that had been wrung from him ;_ this be military—in unusual emergencies they could not " do took kthe liberty of mentioning to his Noble Friend among considerations. Again he asked if the East the thing at all. "—(Laughter.) Tho,,attempt to save a_ India Company's mode of paying . the troops was few th o usand pounds in this way, to a great natiatilike i nterfered with, what would b e th e e ff ec t on this, would indeed be "penny wise and pound foolish." t h e i r allowances, ' in which respect both officers -(Hear, hear.) So far from there being too many aol- and men received advantages beyond those in any diers in many parts of the country, there was the other quarter of the globe? Did he think if they inter greatest want of them, and he should feel disgraced fered without just cause, the Company would grant the did he not support the vote. Lord HOWICK said, so far from thinking this vote too large, he much doubted whether the number pro posed would be sufficient for the various objects which his Right Hon. Friend had to provide for. He desired especially to see arrangements made for better re- same allowance that was now received. What, also, would be the arrears, if an unjust mode of payment had taken place since 1818?—what an account would his Hon. Friend,. who h repr .f esented the ß Directors, have to give re his spotting them, if and juat ? it wo u u t ld he am might say the East India Company could lieving the regiments of the line. He regretted that A:A 1. t t r J. C. Hohhouse), to a n s o t t nn which H he aeineteo teat Ile had written a letter on the p su a) l; : ect to t further delay was deemed nece s sary t o th e establish- Lord Glenelg, but he did not persevere in his applies ment of that force in Canada, which for the last four or tion, for after consideration of the question, he bad - not five years had been matter of debate and discussion. come to the conclusion to which his Noble Friend had ar- He begged also to observe on the advantage which rived, but that the East India Company, in equalizing the , would arise from the increase of the black forces in the pay of the soldier i n th e diff erent Presidencies had West Indies, where the mortality of the British troops done all that justice required.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") was most terrific.—(Hear, hear.) The general state- He had received a d espatc h f rom t h e G overnor- G enera l of ment of his Right Hon. Friend had been most India,satis and another from Sir James Carnac, deprecating the agitation of this uestion. Each of those despatches factory, hut on these points he (Lord H.) wished there stated that at present ei there was no dissatisfaction existing had.bptin . mni:e encouraging declarations. on the subject; but that if the question were agitated, it Sir A. DALRYMPLE said a few words, too in- might give rise to very great dissatisfaction. distinctly to be heard with sufficient accuracy for re- Sir H. HARDINGE would recommend her Majesty's porting. -, , , i , Government to bring this question to as speedy a settle- Mr. P. HOWARD reminded the House that the ment as possible. There was a discrepancy between the greatest military authority -in the country—the Duke account of the two members of that Government ; the first of Wellington had declared emphatically that our admitted it was a. grievance, the other said that it had garrisons were starved, and that this empi re oug ht existed ever since 1790., had to been acquiesced in ever since never to have a " little war."—(He ar , h ear , h ear .) that period, and that it was better let well alone. He He would also suggest to his Hon. Friend the M em b er woul d Cuor of t recommend her Majesty s Government and the Directors to take the subject into their immedi a t e for Kilkenny, that the Bill for extending rural poliCe in and sea ions consideration, and settle the question as the country had scarcely passed six months, and could speedily as possible. hardly have had great effect yet. His Hon. Friend Si r R. JENKINS corroborated what the Hen. G e n_ must at least admit this, too, that the increase he had tleman had said on the subject. In 1835 a warrant h a d complained of last year, had been made on the prinei- been issued by the Noble Lord, of which the Board of ple he had often advocated—that of making the num- Directors had had no previous cognizance, and which her of privates more commensurate to that of officers, they could not have imagined would have applied to the Economy, no doubt, was praiseworthy. but he did not troops in India, had not the warrant been officially trans think his Hon. Friend had made out a case here, minted to them. Immediately on the receipt of it, they Sir H. HARDINGE said he should support the had transmitted a protest against the appli ca ti on o f i t i n vote asked for by the Right Hon. Gentleman, whose India, because it would have subjec te d t h e troops i n Ben , al to a severe loss, and to q.. h• err; -as statement, he thought, must have been convin c i ng to gal to a severe loss, and to this day the questi on has re mained unsettled. The fact this was that the the u o a w o a t nc o e r s i s e t re do the House on the necessity of the present force for the the troops in Bengal exceeded that which which was a h exigencies of the empire. In Canada alone were nine- by the warrant of the N.,ble Lord. Their allowance teen battalions instead of nine ; and to India two bat- amounte d to twe l ve rupee ' s and eight annas per day, which talions had been transferred from Ceylon -beyond the excee d e d, i n ster li ng money, 21d. per day the amount pro ordinary force. Why, in India there were battalions posed by the Noble Lore ; that was when they were on which had been there for ten, fifteen, twenty years— full batta, and when they were on half batta the amount (Hear)—and there was not a battalion in this country exceeded, by lid. per day, the amount proposed by which had been home more than four years. He the Noble Lord's warrant. thought the increase last year of 5,000 men had a bone- Sir CHARLES GREY said that the fluctuating sys ficial effect, in enabling some four or five battalion s to tem of exchange in India had placed th e G overnment i n nasseant.it varied t ri sasl e v dl i l m ir p o o st ss f ib ro le m to d fix l t t h o e rate da return home. The increase of the black troops ‘rg)fret"htateemxhcalita. me in the colonies, a! recommended by the Noble During the g tim a e he (Sir Charles Gr y ey) wa y s Lord the Member for Northumberland, must de- in India, the rupee was worth more than its intrinsic pend upon the state of the coloured population, and value, and the different services had gladly taken it iti the confidence which the Secretary for the Colonies pay, It had afterwards, however, .decreased in vdue, and might deem it safe to repose in them. He thought it he thought it fair that they should submit to the come_ right to say that in the battalions of the Guards, em- quence of that change. He thought that the best means played for the last two years in Canada, there had been of remedying that inconvenience would be to ascertain the no desertion ; and in the army generally employed in intrinsic value of the rupee, and to pay the men accord that colony, the rate of desertion had ditininished in the ingly, without any regard to the fluctuations of the 'coin in last two years to 21 per cent., from the rate o f 7 o r 8 India, Mr. HUME thought that the Government should tak e per cent., which was the average of former years. He ' supported the vote. the subject into their hands. There could be n o difficulty • in ascertaining the exact sum to which th e m en were en- Mr. MACAULAY confirmed the statement o f the titled, and that sum was all which they should receive. Gallant Officer, and added that there had been no charge Lord HO WIC K said, that he foued it impossible o f misconduct against the Guards, which might be to leave without an answer an observation made by the owing to their having been kept in constant employment. lion. Baronet opposite, (Sir R. Jenkins). It might ap- Captain BOLDERO supported the vote. He had pear from the statement of the Hun. Baronet, that he no fears for the fidelity of the British troops in any (Lord Howiek) had been guilty of the gross impro situation. The soldiers sent down to Newport; during priety of advising his late Majesty to issue a warrant the recent disturbances, had been much tempted by an a dt c o a transmitthat warrant to India, with ou t any corn- Theatwas, that Government to which i he had the the Chartists, with w h om th ey assoc i ate d i n the public itni tit°on with : houses when off duty. I n that. respect they afforded an honour into office belong.the he had found in honourable contr as t t o th e F renc h t ro ops, when em- ► question, and he had submil,:).retedParatio n w the when ire warrant ea 7 ine it to his late Ma.. played in suppressing internal dissensions. jester for his signature It was issued to the arm The Committ ee th en di v id e d. Th e nu mbers were— in general, and not to that of 1ndia,......( Hear?) For the vote... .. ... 100 The Noble Lord said, his flight Hon. Friend had laid For the. amendment 8 great stress upon the fact, that the despatch written by Majority On re-entering the gallery, we found Lord William 13entinek, was submitted to the Coalman_ Lord HO WICK addressing the Committee, but we der.in-Chief, and by him approved. But his Right Hon. ' could not glean, from the few words we caught, on what Friend kneiv that on a financial matter the Commander_ item he was speaking. in-Chief was no authority whatever. His Right Hon. Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE sa id that it had been Friend had compl a i ne d o f t h e cost o f agitating the ques_ determined by t h e E as t I n di a Company to erualise the tion; that, h owe v er , was a l ways the argument of those 1411Wapees and pay of the troops in the different Pre. who advocated an abuse.,--( liar, hear. ) The East India the pensions from the G sideneles, with the'full concarrenoe of the Board over reoceladnythewiftuhllregitartdotootfheP 'nsioners residing in India, which belied the honour preside. The troops employed ment, and amountpaid it even' in Bombay and Madras would be put on the same foot- deduction. the pensioners with this large ing with the troops in Bengal immediately, although the Sir H. HARDINGE suggested that the pa ) . warran t equaliz a ti on wou ld cos t th e East India Company thould issue to India, in rn-ce., instead of p oun d s , shil 45,000L'a%ear: . lips, 4141 P - ence _.that ar raareement would p reven t fluctua - Lord 110 WICK said that the equalization would lions, and would, moreover, obviate the nec ess it y f ' .9r i ll ` S not remedy the erievance of which he eomplained, and present unfortunate diseussion.—( Hear.) w4ieh inc . that the o ffi cers w ere charged 2s. 6d. for the "noel,, r. S e ir J• ab H ro o a4 B ,, H , . o :S w E 4 said. he laa,-1 (I. l ).ieeied to the words wascani signed by his Noble rupees t\ireli"they 'received in In(lia, Egid 61 ' 4 the y %Tcre F 1 nd the late Secretary at War, because those words alloyed only 2s, for it when they remitted it to'Englarl. includea" . ould India, but his Noble Friend persisted. I That grieVaned did not affect the. ,men and non-com , He (Sir J. El ) however, wrote to the Govern.or-in-Genhee missioned officers se much as it affected the officers. cal, directing him not to act on It appeared to him when they considered what was re- i did that thewarrant wea that ereoueetis w l`i r :i r in i.t (- I.To l iap 4 t s ion 9uhed from the troops, when it w , • known that th . cy , . of his /::loble Vrien'd i Aid' havin:, 'bee'n issued against th were coMliolled to suffer bani!hreent fettn, fbene native te e i ,... e Bf ., ihe directors. country, it wes abseltitely inptrplerl, t . on this country to , " Lord ficiWicK _syill my ftiglii lieu., Fe ; : en d sa y ___-.......+-#.19.,,11TT1....W.......- EVENING EDITION, t hat this wa:r4r.t contained one line, goi a' mete i;contioilda." ! tion of former warrant ? Sir J HOB HOUSE said it decidvd the ,khole contro- verse as to the interpretation of the value. Lord HO WICK said he must have a - . answer to his question. Was he not stating a fact when he said that the wariant contained no relation whatov,r to the question ; that it merely specified the amount to which , under ih, diffeteot eiicunistei ecs, the soldier wollt.; be entitled? Tile amount of rli , ney to which lie s,,Lier way entiileh!, was us ct arigrcl bi the warrant, ma,ly consolidat,-d th pr viously i•xisting waitaws. Sir JOHN HOLLMUSE s,,id that a point which had been doubtful before was made certain by the . warrant- Sir R. JENKINS read several parauraphs from the warratit alluded to. Lord flO \V ICK then s-tid that upon the bringing up of the Report he would »tove for a rerwu of a co t .) , of the warrant dad 4th (..t . M , trch, 1833. - Captain BO L DER 0 asked 0 heater solUier received: 2s. tid. for the rupee? Mr. MACAUL A Y uude stood to say that he. did not. Sir 110I3ERT PEEL th •ti.trht it well to ri.fer to the evide,,ce thkett before the Committee on li.dkn Affairs itr 1832, in which it appeared that in 1796 the vain-. - of the rupee was fixed :it 24. 6d. : and that older was confirmed in 1824 Af fe.tv obsevvd.'ions from Sir J. Hon!loom Lord ElowrcK. mid. Mr. MAcAuLAI, the vote was egre‘d to, aud the /1. - oise resumed. The Union Workhouses Bill ;vas read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday, after a few obser vations from Captain PECHEL L. Mr. FOX MAULE mov,ti the secolicl reading of the Prisons' Act. Amendment Bill. Mr. GREEN thought that many p:',rts of th,.. Bill were open to great objection. Mr. WARBURTON gave notice of his intention in Committee on the Bill, to propose a clause to exempt pq ties convicted of political offences from being treated as other offenders. After a few obervations from Mr. HAWES, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed - of, and the House adjourned at One o'Clock. THE MARKETS.-(YESTERDAY.) PRICE OP BREAD. The highest price of Bread in the Metropolis is 10,0 fer the 410 Loaf. Good Bread may be had at 9d. • PRICES OF SEEDS. Per Cwt, Per Quarter. New English lied C10rer...555. 90s St. Fobs -s. 491 66 , Old Ditto Ditto -s -1 -s Rye Grass -a. 40s. 445 New Foreign Ditto ...-s. 565. 303. Pacey Grass -s. -s. - 1 Old Ditto Ditto -s. -s -a. !Linseed, for feeding -s. 41ss. 52x New White Clover sf.ls. 655. 70s. Ditto, for sewing - s . 54 5 . 505 Old Ditto Ditto s -s. -s. , Ditto, for crushing...-s. 425. es Nee Treibil -.19, ~.." i Canary -s 705.805 Old Ditto -s. 12:. :?2s. Hemp -s. 35.1 401 Trefolitiin -8 23s 3os t Per Bushel. English Carraway -s. 525. 565. I White Mustard...lls. 01. I4s. Pd. Foreign Ditto -s. Mts. 56s , Brown Ditto lbs. Od. lOs. 041 Coriander -s 0 0s. 25s 'Tares 53. 6d. 76. tkl. Rapeseed, English tine ;per Last) 281.311. Foreign 261. 261. PRICES OF HOPS. Farnham , ,:ii.... , ,, (per cwt.) O. Os. W. Os. to 01. Is.. East K •i! , Pockets.. Ditto Bags "1 lli. Ot Os. to 4i. 4, Mid Kent Pockets 3l. 10s, 41. 10s. to 5/ 12e. Ditto Bags 3t. 10s. 0/. Os to 4.. Os. Su4sex .3 , 5..., Yearlings O4 Os. 3/. 3s. to 31. la'. Old Olds PRICES OF LEATHER Per lb. d. to d Per lb. - d. to I. CropHides,3o to 401b.each 11 131 Horse Hides, 6erman... 12 22 ----,--4.0 50 l2 16 -- - Spanish ... 13 24 ----50 60 ..... Bull Hides ........,. Butts, V triol ... . . . 17 19 -50 CO . .... 21 28 - English .... 15 24 --70 100 ... ~.... 18 22 - Foreign " .. 14 18 Seal Skins, large... . ll 15 1 - oreign Hides ..... lit Iv---- 5ma11..... ..... .26 2 , 2 Dressing Hides .. ... 11 14' Kips , ..,, ... ..... . .... „.. is 20 I - -Shaved... 13 17 Basils... , .....,.. 6 11 Bes Saddlers' Hides... 15 hit Bellies Horse Hides, English ... II 1 . Shoulders •l6 i 3 Call Skins, if rounded 9.d. to 4d. por b. more. I'RICE ('F DIL. RapeOil,brown,pe ton, 354 Os.-Refined, 36/.los -' irseed ' ' 11. VI,. Linseed oil Cake at the Mill 0000), 144 os.-Rape Cake, per top,7/. PRICE OF TALLOW, SOAP, dye. • per 1121 b. Town Tallow sss. Od. Yeti w Soap .. -s, NI.. . . Yellow Russia 505. 6d. Mottled -s, Od. White Soap Ditto ... Melting Stuff.... . 37x. Od i-lood Dregs.., ss. Od. Ditto Rough .-- 2ss Od. PRICE JP RAW FAT, per stoneof 81.!. Price of Tallow tas stated ,by the Tallow Melt ers ) 3s. Id. PRICE ';.E . CANDLES. The price of good Store andles in the Retail Shops is as follows :••• Candles, pee dozen, Ss. Od. ; inferior , 71. od. ; Moulds, 9s, 6d. Sixpence pertlozea discount for cash, : COAL Al Adair's • . s (1.• 111 1 61 Ch. ster Holywell Main .20 0 Ord's Itedhugh Pontop Windsor l7 f , Smith's Pontop l7 0 SAIL h Hartley l9 0 Townley l7 0 West Hartley 2l 6 Wylam. Walls Ei.d Bell and Brown 2. 0 Walls End Gosforth ... Walls End Hilda Walls End Northumberland it 0 Walls End Westgato 2l 1 ships arrived since [ARK ET. Walls End Belmont 2B 0 Walls End Kradd y I l's Helton N 5 Walls End Hetton".... .... 13 We's End Lanihtin '5 ,u, Walls End Hartlep oo l 23 ! Wuhs End Asiebide Walls End trarringten Tees 12 Walls End St. Helen's Tees 21 Walls End South Durham 22 7 Walls End Tees Hetton Walls End Tees 24 3 Walls End Victoria Tees sl 5 Blythe. Howard's Nethert o n M ain 18 L'` . ennant's Hartlepool 24 8 . last market-day, 4., EGYPTIAN INTRIGUES.— The Augsburg , - Gazette states, on the authority of a letter from Constantia# 4 of the 15th ult., that the whole of European Turkey is sirloin' ing with Egyptian agents. On the 9th several were unseal at the moment when they were embarking in the Dardanelles for Alexandria. Among the papers found upon them was one implicating a Turkish Pacha and Several rich famili4 Some cases of plague had been manifested at Trebixond, at , the most rigorous precautions were being , adopted. The Ttebiseed steamer had been obliged to perform quarantine at COnstanti. nople. . SPOONS and FORKS, strongly plata) with Silver on a white metal, and consequently not liable by wear to show any other colour. Table Spoons or Forks 2/. 19s. per dozen. Dessert Spoons or Forks, TWo Guineas Per dozen. rea Spoons, 255. per dozen. Gravy Spoons, 9s. ed. each. Soup Ladles, 16s. each. T. COX SAVORY, Silversmith &a., 47, Cornhill (Seven doors from Grace church-street), London A Pamphlet, containing a list of the prices of Silver Spoons and Forks, Te a an d Coffee Services, an d ot h er Silver late, Plated Wares, Watches, Clocks, &c., with drawings of the ar° ticks, will be fo rwar d e d ( grat i s an d post free), in answer to a post paid application. SUPERIOR LONDON-MADE WATCHES•. —A. B. SAVORY and SONS, Watcmakers, N o , 9, Gera hill, bindon (opposite the Bank of England), submit for se lection a very Iarge•STOCK of Highly-finished London mad. WATCHES, the whole of which being manufactured under their own inspection, on their own premises, they can afford tt sell at least 251. per cent. below toe 'usual trade price for an ar ticle of the same quality. A printed warranty is given Wit]; each W,,tch. PRICES MOUNTED IN SILVER CASES. Fine Vertical Watches, jewelled, with double b acked ungine-turned cases, warranted .44 4 Patent detached Lever Watches, jewelled in four holes, maintaining power, with seconds hands, and double-backed cases, warranted 6 Either of the above in silver hunting cases, 10s. 6d. extra. A large variety of second-hand Silver Watches, which hay. been carefully examined, and can be warranted at £2 2s. each. GOLD CASES, SIZE FOR LADIES. Fine Vertical Watches, jewelled, I't engine -turned gold case', and gold dials, warranted Fine Vertical Watch-s, jewelled, wish double-backed engine-turned gold cases and gold dials, warranted 12 l ° Patent detached Lever Watches, jewelled in four holes with double-backed gold cases and gold dials , warranted 14 14 0 GOLD CASES, SIZE FOR GENTLEMEN. Patent detached Lever Watches, jewelled in four holes, seconds, and double-backed gold cases, war ranted 14 14 0 Patent detached Lever Watches, capped, jewelled in six holes, seconds, double-backed gold cases and enamel dials, warranted Patent detached Lever Watches, canped, jewelled in six holes, seconds, double -backed gold cases and gold dials, warranted Either o: the Gentlemen's Watches may be had in gold huntiPS cases, for 3/. 3s. each extra. N.B. Second-band 'Watches purchased in exchange. BIRTH On the 23d ult., at Xerez de-la-Fronteira, the lady of the Senor Don Geronimo Angulo-y -Davila, of a son and heir. On the 7th inst., in Grosvenor-square, Lady Louisa Vor" tescue, of a daughter. • On the 7th inst., at Chiswick-grove, the lady of Septimull Burton, Esq., of a son. On the Bth inst., at Wilberforce-place, Reading, the lady . 4 Robert Dade, Esq., of a son, still-born. -On the Bth inst., in Cheyne-row, Chelsea, Mrs. Wrent , " re ' of a daughter. On the 9th inst., at Goltismiths'-hall, the lady of John Lane , Esq., of a (laughter. On the 9th inst at Peckham, Surrey, the lady of CaPts i° James Hamilton, of a daughter. 6ARRIED. On the 7th in,t.,. at Long A s ht on , H enry D ayman, of git brook, South ampton, E sq., to Elizabeth Adams Heaven, eldes t daughter of James William Chadwick, of Long Aston, EA. RP. On the eveni ng o f F r id ay, the 28th tilt., the Rev. Job ° Mitchell, Unitarian Minister of the first Presbyterian congregs: tion of Newry. He was in the 68th year of his age, and Doll seventeen years co nnec t e d w i th the Newry congregation of Londonderry. As a citizen few men have been more gen' rally esteemed than Mr. Mitchell, and few will be mare gene rally regretted. His removal will be a serious loss to the. Co inunity at large, but to that congregation of which he was the devoted Minister, it will be almost irreparable. Through° o " life it was his constant endeavour to live peaceably with ill tut and ever, wh en c i rcumstances required, he was found io true spirit of his Divine Master, exerting his influence I , o n swage the angry e l ements of man ' s " warring nattliev' pour oil on the troubled waters of worldly strife. His puije virtues were unostentatious, and so were his domestic 0,n!9 , ' and it may b e a conso l at i on to hi s af fli cted family to or_ that they h ave th e sympat h y of mult i tudes in their present reavement. On the 2d inst., at Broughton, Bucks, Sarah, the evils of Rev. Joshua Cautley. On the 4th in s t., a t It agoa b y , A nne R e b ecca, the P' • d Henry Clark, &q., aged 33. On the sth inst., at Bu r t on - s t ree t, B urton -crescent , fut;ttbr widow of the late James Devereux Hustler, aged E 6. On the sth inst., in Edmund -street, King's-crusll‘ ,l '" Yarnoll, Es q ., aged 81. On the sth inst., at Lea-bridge, Derby, Mr. John aged 7a, On the Gth inst., at Union-place, Lambeth, George BY , 1 " . of Majesty's Customs, aged 65. On the 6th alit., at Clapham-rise, Caleb Welch Collies,"" af,;ect 13 On the 7th inst., in the Regent C 's-park, Colon e l Rice, —• ~ late. of the 51st or King's Own Light Infantry, i ,,, ga es Oa the) 7th inst., Georgina An:), the wife of Mr. 4.. " -- hi()%V, of Gordon House, Turnhani-green. aged 47. On the 7th inst., John Shed.rtnan, Esq., of Harpur - t 4reet. Bloomsbury, aged IJ9. ()n the th iost„ Willia m Davis, Esq., of Mitcham, en Orlikk 9 , 1 i)avis, Barber, and 119vyse, ,ng.street, Cheel 4 , aged 51, ti, t l3 7'alted and Publishe,; L.y f T- '-i )( ' ~,). I 1".: truncl, at Tht S , /,/ : 1 1E••••. No. II? ~,t in r2 4,i . March 9, I,4ft 4 r • i. ; 4 I : i