The Sun. — London, England, 1857-05-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PAR LI A.l/1 NT. HOUSE OF LORDS .—(YEsTEr.DAy.) PROBATE AND L'ETTERR OF ADMINISTRA.- TION BILL. The LORD-CIELNN CELLOR moved the second reading of the Probates and Letters of Administration Bill, and proceeded to state the alterations made in the measure since it "was broeght forward bet session. In the first place be proposed that the present judge of the Prerogative Court should be the first judge of the new Court of Probate, with a working salary of 4,0001. and a retiring salary of 2,0001. a year. As under the new Bill all disputed matters cf fact would be tried by a jury in the common law courts, the labours of the Court would be much reduced; he therefore proposed that the judge of the Court of Probate should be the judge of the Ma trimonial and Divorce Courts, and that ultimately when ever a vacancy occurred in the Court of Admiralty be should be judge in that court also. Oa this point he was fortified by the opinion of Dr. Lushington, who had recently repeated evidence which he had given 20 years ago, to the effect that the-duties of all these courts might be very will discharged by one and the same judge. All the proceedings before the new Court of Probate were to be viva voce; and in cases of wills, where the property disposed of did not exceed 2001. personalty, or 3001. realty, the judges of the County Courts were to have jurisdiction. District registrars, if the testator died within the limits of the district, were to have jurisdic tion if the property bequeathed did not exceed 1,5001. The originals of wills proved in these districts would be kept in the country registry, but copies would be sent to the chief registry in Len.don ' and in the Probate-office in London there would be a de partment where testators might deposit their wills so that their relatives might know where to look for wills supposed to be in existence. The present bill did not propose to establish a probate for real property, and the right of appeal would be to the. Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. Certain officials who might be deprived of emoluments by the bill would be compen sated, and the whole .business of the new Court of Probate would be left in the hands of the proctors. The noble lord concluded by moving the second reading of the bill. After some observations from the Bishop of BANGOR, The Bishop of LONDON trusted that the claims of the existing ecclesiastical registrars and chancellors would be considered in committee. Lord CAMPBELL gave his cordial consent to the bill, especially as all approach to the Court of Chancery was now avoided. The bill was then read a second time. COMMUNICATION BETWEEN ENGLAND AND IRELAND. Viscount DUNGANNON asked 'the Postmaster- General whether any final arrangements had been made by her Majesty's Government with the Dublin Steam packet Company relative to th e p os t a l an d p assenger communication between Holyhead. and Kingstown, what was the na.nre of such arrangements, and how soon they were likely to be carried into effect. The Duke of ARGYLL was happy to inform the noble viscount that an altered, and, as he hoped, an amended proposal had been made by the Government about a week ago to the united companies, with a view to secure a more rapid communication between London and Dublin. No answer bad yet been returned by the companies, and he thought, therefore, it would be in expedient at present to enter into any detailed-explana tion as to the nature of the terms proposed. It would be enough to say that they contained important, and, be did trust, ample modifications 'of some points upon which hitherto the greatest difficulties bad arisen. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE remarked that the Government bad the power of improving the communica tion between England and Ireland without going to any company at all. In fact the service was better performed during the time it was in the hands of the Government when the Banshee used to make an average pas Sage, he believed, of 4 hours 7 minutes, and the Llewellyn of 4 hours 11 minute 4. Not only, however, was increased rapidity wanted, but greater facilities of communication, both as regarded letters and passengers. After a tew words from Earl FITZWILLIAIt and Vis count DUNGANNON the subject was allowed to drop. The Dulwich College Bill was read a first time. Their lordships adjourned at a few minutes after seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.) THE PRINCESS ROYAL';; MARRIAGE. MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN. Lord PALMERSTON appeared at the bar of the house with a message from her Majesty to the following effect :—" Her Majesty having agreed to a marriage proposed between her Royal Highness the Princess Royal and his Royalllighness Prince Frederick William of Prussia, has thought fit to communicate the same to the House of Commons. Her Majesty is fully persuaded that this alliance cannot but be acceptable to all her Mejasty's faithlul and loyal subject, and the many proofs which the Queen has received of the affec tionate attachment of this house to her Majesty's person and family leaves her no room to doubt the concurrence and assistance of this house, in enabling her to make such provision for her eldest daughter, with a view to the raid marriage, as may be suitable to the dignity of the Crown and the honour of the country." The reading of the address by the noble lord was re ceived in silence. The noble lord having brought the message to the table handed it to Mr. Speaker, who read it from the chair. Lord PAL MERS CON—Sir, I am sure that the house will he desirous of taking the earliest opportunity of as suriug her Majesty cf the deep sympathy which this house feels on an event so interesting to her Majesty, and, I may say, so interesting to the country also, with out pledging any person in this house as to the details of the manner in which this house may be prepared to answer the appeal which has been made to it, at least we will lose no time in assuring her Majesty that we will on an early day take into our respectful consideration the Mes sage with which she has this day honoured the house. The Athlress which I am about to propose has that object in view. At the same time I cannot refrain from saying, that those who have had the good fortune to be acquaint ed with the Princess Royal must have observed that she possesses, both in heart and head, those distinguished qualities that adorn her illustrious parents, and that she bide fair to hold out in the country of her adoption the repetition of that brilliant examplo which her illustrious parents have held out in this country of domestic happi ness worthy of imitation either by the most exalted or the humblest of her Majesty's subjecte. It is impossible not to seo that this marriage, independent of the prospect which it holds out of happiness to her Royal Highness from the qualities of the Pi iece whom she bar eelected as bur future husband, does hold out to this country po litical pro,pects not undeserving the attention of the house. We all know how family alliances can mitigate those asperities which from time to time must be produced by those diversities of policy which must inevitably arise occasionally between great and independent powers, and therefore I trust that this marriage may be considered as holding out an increased prospect of goodwill and cor diality among the great powers of the earth. I shall not trespass further on the house on the present occoAnn. On Friday next we propose to submit to the house the arrangements which we think iittime for her Royal Highness and this nation. On the present occasion I shall merely propose an address, assuring her Ma. jesty of the loyal attachment of the house to her person and Throne, and stating that we shall, at the earliest possible moment, avail ourselves of the opportu nity of taking into consideration her most gracious mes sage. The noble lord concluded by moving the following addrees,.which was read by the clerk at the table;— " That an humble address be presented to .her Ma jesty, :to return to her Majesty the thanks of this house for her most gracious communication of the intended marriage between the Princess Royal and his Royal Highness the Prince;of Prussia ; and to express their satisfaction at the prospect of An alliance with a Prince of so illustrious alamily, and-'which . they deubt not will contribute to the happinessof her Majesty and her Royal Highness, as well as prove conducive to the best inte rests of this kingdom ; and to assure her Majesty that this house will itnmediately proceed . to the consideration of her Majesty's gracious mcseage, in such a manner as shall demenitrate the zeal, daty, and affectionate attach.: ment of this hOuse to her Majesty, a just sense of the rnerit ; of her Royal Highness, and a due regard to the dignity of the Royal family and the honour of this coun try." (Cheers.) The motion having been agreed to, Lord PALMERSTON—I shall propose that her Ma iestra most gracious message be taken into considera tion on Friday next. (Hear.) SUPPLY-NAVY ESTIMATES, The house then went into committee Of supply. Sir C. WOOD said that it was perhaps necessary that be should explain, especially as there were many new members in the house, that the estimates which be was about to lay before the committee were the same as those which bad been placed before the late House of Com mons, and in respect of which a vote bad been taken on account. It was right, however, that he should state with respect to one subject, viz., the movement of troops, that it would be necessary to sub m it some further estimates, inasmuch as when the estimates were originally framed at the commencementof the year, hostilitie s with China were not amonght the matters for which the Government had to provide. Further than theseexpenses fur the transport of troops, he was happy to say that th e war with Chita " would not cast upon him the task of submittin g any in creased estimates. The comparison of the' present year's estimates with those of the past would not on this occa sion be of the value which ordinarily attached to that process ; for the comparison being between a year of war anti,one of peace, it was not possible to compare the expenses of the country during the two years with great practical benefit. Still, the house would see, upon I•:ok ing to the paper with which bon, members bad been furnished, that a considerable reduction bad taken place ; an'd there were items 37,1; in the estimates which, tough inaposeil2e upon the first year of peace to reduce, might yet be reduced with safety upon future occasions. At the came time, he confessed thathe thought it would be some time before these estimates could reach The low figure of former years. We had learned several lessons during the late war, and none more grave than that which warned THE SUN, 1, N ua not to let our means of defence get too low in times of peace. He bad once heard an iretelligent' foreigner say that if he had to attack England, he would endeavour to strike a fetal blow within two years after the decla ration of• war, for it took that time to put this country effectually in a state of defence. That was a shrewd observation; and one which it weuld be well to keep constantly in mind when considering the state of our navy. In the late war, indeed, the power to which we were opposed did not put our naval forces to any severe test ; but in future wars, and with other powers, matters might assume a different shape. One conside ration which he wished to impress on members was, that naval armaments were now much more expensive than in former times, in censequence of the general introduc tion of steam in ships of war. For these reasons it could not be expected that he should come down to a lower level than that of former estimates. With these preli minary observations he would proceed to the considera tion of the estimates, which might be classed under two great heads, the effective and the non-effective branches. The non!effective- -half-pay, &e.—amounted to about 1,500,0001., and the effective to six and a half millions, divided between men and material, wages, &c. The num ber of men to be voted for the remainder of the year was 43,000 seamen and Marines, and 5.000 in ordinary, making in all 53,000. There were 33,000 seamen and 15,000 Marines, and the remainder consisted of coast guard. Taking the numbers of former years, be found that in 1849, 1850, and 1851, we had 28,000; in 1852 and 1853, 33,000; in 1854, 48,500 ; and in 1855, 54,000; but last year we had 60,000, which was subse quently reduced to 40,000. From thislast number he pro posed a reduction of 7,000 seamen and boys. Of the 60,000 voted for last year only 54,000 were actually raised, so that the reduction actually made amounted to 14,000, not 20,000 as had been stated. A more difficult task than this reduction of men had never fallen to his lot. In former times, when men were paid off at the end of their cruise there was no difficulty, but now, what with the continuous service and the wish of the men to remain, it had been a difficult and painful task to the Admiralty, who had previously done so much to improve the condition and increase the comforts of the men that the latter were quite unwilling to leave the service. He hoped the house would forgive him for saying that the Admiralty was also most unwilling to part with them. When the Arrogant was paid off not one man left the ser vice. When the Duke of Wellington was paid off only2lo accepted their discharge. (Hear.) No ships had been commissioned during the last 15 months except such as were absolutely necessary for relief, and the gunboats for China, while many ships were paid off before their time had expired. This year there being 8,000 men above the number, he bad taken strong measures, and offered the continuous service-men their discharge. Many ships which had been ordered home were now on their passage, and on their return the reduction of 8,000 would be ac complished. The difficulty, then, was not in making the reduction, but in doing it in time. He thought that 33,000 men would be sufficient in time of peace ; but his object was as much as possible to disband men with their own free will ; and he hoped that the house would sympathise with the Admiralty in that motive, as by keeping faith with the British seaman, he w ou ld sure to, come forward with the greater alacrity when wanted again. (Hear.) The permanent number they now pro posed to retain was 33,000, the same as in 1852 53, but which was greater than the number in former years ; but it should be remembered that our trade and com merce, which were every year increasing, required a greater force for their protection than was required by any other country. There was hardly a quarter of the world to which our commerce did not extend, where our merchants were not settled, and where ships of war were not constantly demanded by our consuls for protection. The house weald therefore see that for the protection of our trade and commerce a large force was constantly re quired. With regard-to purposes not connected with trade he thought it desirable that this year some attempt should be made towards the formation of a home squa dron, not only for purposes of protection and security, but in order that ships' crews and commanders might acquire the habit of acting in large squadrons. It he wanted any argument in favour of the proposition, he had only to look to the practice of other nations: In Russia the fleet went to sea in two divisions every year, and in France, when the Grand Duke Constantine visited Toulon, six sail of the line came to meet him. He (Sir C. Wood) was afraid that when his Imperial Highness visited this country it would be impossible to muster more than two ships of the hue at Spithead. This was not a proper state of things, as in ordinary years we ought to have an adequa. e force near our shores, ready to be sent to China, or for any other emergency that might arise. The real difficulty with which we had always to contend was the outbreak of a war. Other nations, from having compulsory service, could raise a greater number of men at once than we could, although after a little time that advantage disap peared. We had during the war raised 20,000 men, but what we wanted was to raise men, not in a year, but in a week or two. During the last war the press bad done wonders, and might be again resorted to in extreme circumstances ; but the house would agree with him that everything possible should be done to prevent recurrence, if possible, to so harsh a measure. In Russia the men were half-sailors, half-soldiers, kept in barracks all tee winter, and put on board the ships in summer • but in France the whole mercantile-marine was enrceled, and could at any time be called out. The French officer who recently drew up a report on this subject stated that 60,000 good seamen could always be depended on, and 20,000 not quite so good, but still very valu able sailors. To have any reserve in this country, it would be necessary to maintain a squadron of evolution. His proposal was for 15,000 Marines, being 1,000 less than last year. They had felt it to be impossible further to reduce the number of seamen and boys, and there fore had taken 1,000 from the Marines. Every one I knew the value of Marines. With them and the coast guard they had two important elements in ships' com panies. With respect to the coast guard, he was happy to say that their organisation during the past year had been a complete success. The greatest satisfaction bad been expressed by the men; and so far from their leav ing the service in shoals, as had been asserted, only one man had actually resigned. On the other hand, 800 bad entered the navy, and at the termination of hostili ties had returned to their former position with the best characters. He bad every reason to hope that in the coast guard they might calculate on an efficient reserve of eight thousand men. The royal naval volunteers also had answered every expectation, and he had only that morning received two most satisfactory reports respect ing not only their ready answering to the call, but their admirable practice with large and small arms. Their conduct had been most excellent when on board ship fen drill, there not being a single complaint of misconduct. With regard to material, which incladed all the expense of repairing ships, it would be found that all the extra men had been discharged from the dockyards, and the numbers were the same as they had been before the war. As to the building of ships, he knew there was great difference of opinion amongst critics, some voting for large ships, and some for small, but in his opinion the beet plan would be to Lave a few of both. We bad built during the war a large number of gunboats, bat they were intended for the shallow waters of the Baltic, and, although they would be very efficient for any service within reach cf shore, they could net carry coals or stores for a distant voyage. They were not adapted for keeping to sea, but for any service near shore they would be very efficient. It would be necessary, therefore, to build large ships and frigates, and if any proof were necessary of the truth of that assertion, one need only look to what was being done by other nations. Very few officers would now-a-day think of fighting an action es ith' sailing ships, Iparticularly as the French were building large screws, and the Americans formidable frigates. He would not Isay whether he thought these latter were as formidable as they were represented, but he did say that we ought, ifoccasion required, to be able teemeettberu with vessels of a similar description. It bad always been hell that Great Britain should have the most powerful navy in the world. Some went so far as to say our navy ought to be as great as those of any two other nations, but all held that it should be greater than any one ; and that being conceded, let him see how we actually stood as compared with former periods. in '93 we had 115 large ships the French 76 ; i n 1817 we had 131, the French 72; in 1810 we had 39, the French 46. Now, in corning down to the present time he wo u ld, as h e had said before, leave out the sailing vessels, and take a comparative view of the screws. We had 51, 9 of which were block ships, fitonly for a peculiar service, and not able to keep 'the sea • and we had, built, building, or concer ti ng , 42 , and 40 fri gates. The proportions at present were 42 ships to the French 40, and 40 frigates to the French 37. They had heard of the American Merrimac and Niagara, but we had nothing whatever of that description. Me would not give an opinion as to their efficiency, but he thought it only right that we should have something fit to beat them if need be. He bad, therefore, ordered two vessels of that description to be. laid down. To do all this it would be necessary to incur very considerable expense ; for, be it remembered, the expense of a steam fleet was immensely greater than that of sailing vessels. But the house would perhaps understand the difference better if he gave a few examples. Our largest sailing three decker, the Queen, cost 100,0001., the Duke of Wellingto n cos t 170,0001. The Albion, 90 , cost 95,0001. ; the Agamem non, 144,000/. Vernon, 50, cost 53,0001. ; the Llfey, 51, sere w, cost 129,0001., so that the screw ships cost exactly double what was expended on the sailing vessels. If they took the cost of sailing-vessels at two thirds that of eteantvessels it would probably be near the mark, and to the extent of a third therefore they might calculate that the expense of a steam navy would exceed that of a sailing navy. It Was sometimes said that a much smaller number of ships would do the same amount of work. (Hear, hear, frona - Mr. Williams.) He did not think that was quite clear. When they introduced steam they introduced an element altogether novel ; and without doubt, as com pared one with the other, a steam ship in perfect order was much more efficient than a sailing ship of equal size, But steam vessels, as they knew, were much more liable to get out of repair than sailing ships, and it was doubt ful, therefore, whether a less number of ships upon any station would give a greater number fit for service. With all the care in the world accidents would happen, and if it was necessary to go into dock to repair, as that repair was of a more difficult character than the repairs of sailing ships, much longer time was required in the operation. He bad no aid' to go into the question of the comparative number of accidents in the Queen's and the merchant service; but if he bad it would not be difficult to show that the number in the Queen's service was less in corn ' parison than in the merchant service. In the Govern• ment service, out of 326 vessels, 23 bad met with acci dents ; whereas out of 297 vessels belonging to private owners employed as transports during 15 months of the war, the there bad be en 46 fi ne d f or d e l ays occas i one d b y accidents. He might take this opportunity of answering a question put to him the other night in reference to the I Urgent. Since that vessel bad arrived he had made I inquiry of her commander, and the reply was that from the beginning of her voyage to. the end no accident lead occurred—that she was a most peirfect sea boat, and in every way qualified for the service in which oho was engaged—that she was not cvermasted—that she had not too much top weight, aid that her commander was ,almost inclined, when she arrived at port, to ask permis sion to land 20 tons of ballast out of her. The statement, therefore, which had formed the foundation of the question he alluded to was a pure fabrication from beginning to end. (Hear.) They should remember that steam machinery was undergoing improvemeets every day. The screw was now being generally introduced, instead of the pad dle. To adapt the machinery to the screw considerable alterations were necessary ' • and during the period of transition it was possible that some difficulty might be experienced, and occasionally accidents take place. But some hon. gentlemen seemed to think that whenever the machinery of a steam-ship broke down, the fault was chargeable to the Government. The fact was, that the whole of the machinery for the fleet was made in private yards. Not a single engine constructed was constructed by the Government ; therefore when an accident hap pened, and the machinery broke down, the blame, if blame there was, attached, not to the Government, but to those by whom the machinery was constructed. The next item of expenditure in these estimates was " stores " and the largest ch arge un d er t h at h ea d was for timber. The amount charged for timber in '1856 was precisely the same as in 1852 • but as during the war it was necessary to provide for a continuous supply of timber, and as it was impossible to say how long the war was to last, and contracts had been entered into extending over a number of years, until those con , tracts expired no very great reduction could be expected in the charge for timber Another item of expense was coals, which was altogether new of late years. Great pains were taken to keep that charge as low as possible ; but the substitution of a steam for a tailing navy must necessarily make that always a very heavy item. A con siderable expenditure had been incurred in works in the dockyards. This also had been occasioned by the intro duction of steam. They were obliged to provide the means in the yards of supplying defects and repairing accidents in the machinery, and as this was a much more expensive kind of work than ordinary ship build ing. requiring a higher and more expensive kind of skilled labour than ordinary ship building, the charge under this head was also necessarily increased. It should not be forgotten, also, that the nominal horse-power of the navy had grown enormously of late, and now reached the aggregate of 102,000 horses. With regard to the dockyards themselves, they were not yet in that state which the requirements of a navy such as that which this country must always maintain demanded, and were not what might be expected as compared with the dockyards of other maritime nations. Last year he visited the yard at Cherbourg, and found that the works there would place anything we had in any of our yards altogether in the background. They were blasting immense places out of the solid rock, and con structing two inner basins, as large as all our basins put together, and he believed the Cherbourg yard• was as ex tensive as Portsmouth, Devonport, and Keyham com bined. The area of the Cherbourg basins was 180 acres, while the area of the basins atKeyham was only 34 acres, and all the works were in proportion, and in the most complete state of efficiency. It was impossible, therefore that repairs and other works could be executed with the same facility as in those of France. There was a time, he remembered, when the yard at Keyharn was thought altogether unnecessary ; but his right hon. friend (Sir J. Graham) had nevertheless extended it and had done wisely in so doing ; but last year, when he (Sir C. Wood) went down to examine, he found it far too small for its purpose, and bad given orders for its further extension. The alteration and enlargement of the docks had been rendered necessary. by the change in the construction of the ships. Ships were built now much larger than formerly, and some merchant ships were built eoosiderably longer than those in the Queen's service, and for some of those vessels it was necessary for the Government yards occasionally to provide accommoda tion. He found the other day a dock constructing in a private yard 400 ft. long, but they had nothing of the kind in the Government yards, and when these large vessels were taken up by the Government, as troop ships or other wise, difficulty was experienced in finding dock accommo dation for them when requisite. When they chartered the Himalaya, two years ago, they had to dock her, but they had no dock long enough, and the consequence was that they had to pull down and rebuild one of the docks at Key ham, the newest ) and we had. When the Merrimacfrigate came over last summer it was found that there were only two docks in all our dockyards into which she could he taken ; and for many of our own large ships the only place where dock accommodation could be found was at Keyham. This state of things could not of course be permitted to continue. It was quite clear that our docks must be lengthened and enlarged sufficiently to admit that class of ships of the line now building, and which, for the purpose of gaining increased power, were much longer than we formerly used to build them. Sailing ships and paddle steamers might be repaired without taking them into dock ; but it was almost impossible to repair a screw ship without takin g her into dock. Th e introduction of screw steam vessels in the British navy, therefore, had rendered a large addition to the dock ac commodation in our Government yards absolutely neces sary. He had now gone through the principal items of expenditure connected with the naval service, and the reasons why the amount he proposed to ask for was required. There was some slight increase which he had omitted to mention, on account of the higher price of provisions and some other smaller items of additional charge, which he would explain when the votes to which they applied were proposed. Ho had laid before the house a general view of the state of the naval service, and of the expenditure which would be required to maintain it in an effective state during the current year. He had compared the state of our navy with the state of the navies of other maritime na tions—he might perhaps pay our rivals; but whether rivals or not, we could not permit them to beat us in the force and efficiency of this important branch of mili tary service. They might beat us in the numberof men they could bring into the field, but ho should be sorry to see the day when we were not in a condition to send oat a fleet on the instant that should be equal to meet any emergency, and maintain the honour and character of the country. He proposed the same number of men for the year which had been voted for the first four months, viz., 53,750 men and boys, including marines. Admiral WALCOTT said he must congratulate the right hon. baronet do the intelligent, clear, and straight forward statement be had made. In hie opinion, 'there was not a branch of expenditure which the nation felt more disposed to support than that for the navy, provided, however, that the funds were properly admi nistered. He had heard with great satisfaction the pro- • position in reference to the evolutions of a squadron of the fleet ; and he thought that 12 sail of the line should be kept in constant active service, and this would keep the officers perfectly alive in the management of the ships at sea, and well acquainted with their duties in action. In 1845, at the suggestion of one of the most distin gUished men in the service—he referred to Admiral Bowes—two ships of the line were required to be placed in an efficient way and prepared for sea. Oa a Monday the order was received at Devonport to place the Calcutta in order, and on the following Wednes day the, provisions and stores were on board, and in every way she was within 48 hours prepared to go to sea. This showed great alacrity amongst the men and officers. With regard to the continuance service men, ho hoped the Government would in the arrange ments made with them deal in a spirit of fairness. And he trusted that the house would maintain the efficiency of the navy, for upon it depended the preven tion of disaster, and the supremacy of England and Eng land's security. With respect to the coastguard men, of whom there were 5,700, it was useless to talk of these men being made useful at a moment's notice—for they never could be useful it always kept on shore—a certain portion ought to Le kept at t ea and frequently exercised in the performance of their duties. He should be glad to know whether there would be a uniform for the navy I Also, whether there would be any alteration in the terms of the Mutiny Act which would place the seamen on the same footing with the soldier ; and as to naval cadets, he had received an assurance that a ship would be se lected to receive them. They ought to be trained sad prepared for their duties. Formerly the captains had the nomination of midshipmen in their own hands, and then they performed the duties of parents by looking after and instructing them, but now the young men were left to themselves. Sir C. NAPIER said that although the cum of 8,00,000/. was a large sum to vote for the navy at the present time, yet, after what the right hon. baronet ex pressed, he could not think that the estimates ought to be reduced one farthing ; on, the contrary, they were much too low, for the defences of the kingdom were not in a fit state. Again, while England had 42 sail of the line, France had 40 ; and if a war .should take place, this country had not the means of manning the navy properly. He thought the number of the men was a great deal too low, and if a war took place, it would be quite impossible to send an efficient fleet to sea. He was happy to find that the Government, after 25 or 30 years' consi deeation, had at length taken the coast-guard under the jurisdiction of the Admiralty ; but that was not all. We ought to have efficient ships efficiently manned, instead o the old ships which were now on duty on the coast ; for if a war were to break out, we should have to call in all the ships now on duty and pay them off, and issue commissions for new ships. Moreover, a ship does not wear the less from being in commission, but, on the con trary, wears longer than a ship in ordinary. Of the ma rines he must say they were a most efficient set of men, whether ashore or afloat. What he would advise was, that half the marines allowed on board should come ashore and garrison the seaports ; that the Admiralty should make up the number aboard with able seamen ; and then, in case a war were to spring up, with the coast-guard and the volunteers they could man the fleet efficiently. For exemple, take a ship with a crew of 800 men, including officers and marines. Of these he would send half the marines ashore—that was 100 men; he would then complete the ship with able seamen, which would give them 700 seamen aboard. In case of a war the ships might be doubled, and with the help of the coast-guard and the volunteers manned in the course of a week, making a meet efficient fleet. The First Lord had told th e h ouse that France had 40 ships. and we only 42. Fra nce was equal, therefore, to us in ships, and superior in the means of manning them 2 • she had an army of 300,000 or 400 ,000 then, and we had but2oo,ooo. What would the consequenee be were a war to spring up ? Why, there would be an invasion immediately. That was a consideration which ought to strike every man in the house and the country. He warned the house not to expect such victories as they had had over the French during the last war. There was a thing which he had heard that might be true ; at all events it was singular. When the British fleet was manned for the Baltic, the Admiralty received only 400 British seamen from the merchant service. If that were true it was not the con dition in which the service ought to be. The right boa. member for Carlisle (Sir J.. Graham) passed an act when he was in office, empowering the Admiralty to call out the men by proclamation, and to offer them a bounty to enter the service. He did not know bow it would work, but if it were tried in peace, and if liberal terms were TUESDAY E iN 1N G, "i‘ IA Y 19, 1 offered them, it would not be felt to be so great a hard ship in war. When he commanded the Baltic fleet he found that, hut for the coast-guard and the rigeers from the dockc, tbat fleet could not have gone to sea. Now that the coast-guard was under the Admiralty he truQtael there would be no Treasury jobbing, and that men would no longer be appointed because a member of Parlia ment asked the appointment; and be hoped the me❑ would be compelled to godo sea and not suffered to rust their legs off ashore. Ho wished the house to reflect hat the consequences would have been during the war with Russia if France had been opposed to us. Russia bad no screw fleet, bnt France hay, and Russia was now getting a screw fleet also. But would it be believed that we bad only 4,000 able seamen left after deducting officers and marines and boys ? The Admiralty said the able seamen were unwilling to leave the service. He sincerely hoped that that was the case; but be must say, after talking with eailors only the other day, that he found the service was very unpopular among them. The men thought 10 years too lorg a period ; but he could not approve of the system of entering them for five years, and then paying them off at the end of three ; he would keep them the five years out, and longer if they would remain. But the present practice was pursued in order to give the Admiralty more patronage. He would not deny them patronage —he would have them remove a captain and a lieutenant now and then ; it was good for them, and gave them all the opportunity of active life, and of getting acquainted with their profession. The gallant officer then complained of the system of reserved admirals, which had the effect of throwing young men out of employment, whilst older men were doing the duty. The Admiralty would do what was right if they placed the acting admirals on the reserved list, and called out the present reserved admirals. (Laughter.) He then attempted to go through the list of acting, retired, re served, and pensioned admirals ; but, failing in the at tempt, he admitted it was so complicated an affair as to baffle his comprehension. Instead of reducing the num ber of able seamen to 38,000, they ought to vote 50,000 at this moment. Lord C. PAGET said he thought the statement of the right hon. gentleman was highly satisfactory ; but yet he must add that, in his opinion, we ought to deal with the men differently after inducing them to give up their other pursuits and join the service ; and, ifieve die missed them, it ought not to be without a proper gratuity. He expected there would have been a much more detailed statement of the purposes to which the money was to be applied —the house was entitled to it —yet there were two votes comprehending 2,000,0001., and all that they knew of them was, that the one was for wages of artificers and the other for the materials of ship-building. After much had been said of the value now of ships of the line, he must say he believed that the relative power of small vessels was greatly increased over that of large ships. He did not wish to see the line of-battle chips burned ; they would always be necessary as the public officers, so to speak, of the fleet ; the flag ship must always be a line-of-battle-ship; hut they might greatly reduce the number of them. The First Lord had told them that in 1817 we had 117 line-of battle ships, and now only 42; but, according to his (Lord C. Pagetle) statement, we had 51—for he reckoned the nine block ships of the number as being the most efficient line-of-battle-ships. These block ships were able to take part in the engagement in the Baltic, while the others lay off looking or. But he believed that if the gallant admiral the member for Southwark had had a large force of gun-boats they might have damaged Cronstadt. In former times the line•of-battle-ship carried the heavier metal; but in these times the vessels of the class of cor vettes and sloops of war all carried these heavy guns ; and he believed that experience would yet show that no lisle-of-battle ships would be able to withstand the shoal of gun-boats and sloops of war which they saw last year at Spithead, and which did the right hon. gentleman so much honour. If the First Lord would only issue a commission to some experienced officers to inquire what class of vessels was most useful, he believed it would be attended with the best consequences to the navy and the country. The right hon. baronet had represented the number of French line-of•battle-ships as much greater than it really was. He had received a state ment from the French Minister of Marine, from which it appeared that there were only 31. He maintained that line-of-battle-ships were inefficient, and he asked that the opinion of a commission of naval officers should be taken upon the subject. (Hear, bear.) Oar Treat strength lay in the gun-boats, and it was im possible for a landing to be effected in the presence of the legion of gun-boats with which this country had been provided. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BENTINCK objected to the penny wise and pound foolish policy. The extravagance which had been complained of arose from the foolish principles of eco nomy advocated by some hon. members. Tee enormous coat incurred during the late war for the transport ser vice might have been obviated if proper means had been adopted. Mr. WARRE asked for some explanations with re spect to the coast-guard service. He also objected that great loss was occasioned by not keeping the navy in an efficient state, as appeared by a letter written by the Admiralty, in which it was stated that somoof the gun boats were constructed in such haste and of such green wood that they required to be taken out of the water, and their timbers exposed to a thorough draft of air in order to get seasoned. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that no one was more anxious than himself to maintain the efficiency of the navy ; but at the same time he could not but look to the great expense which had been incurred, and the present inefficient state of the navy. The estimates for the year 1852 3 were 2,175,000/. less than for the present year, after two or three years of peace. There was no necessity for any such increase. 250,000,0001. had been expended on the navy since the termination of the French war, and he asked why, after such an expenditure, the navy was so inefficient. He found that there were 302 admi rals on the half-pay list, while there were only nine in commission and three in the dockyards. In 1851-2 there were 220 on half-pay ; in 1837 there were 143 or 154 less than in 1857. During the late war only 18 ad mirals were required to command our fhetS, and yet there was this enormous number of admirals on half-pay. The number of marines, also, was too large. There were 15,000 for 35.000 sailors, while during the war there were only 16,000 for 60,000 sailors. There were 34 ge neral officers of marines, and 73 staff officers, with a command of 205 each. This was most extravagant. The expenditure in dockyards was atlogetber unaccount able. In the last five years the sum spent in wages and stores had amounted to 16,036,0001, and if they took stock as a merchant or tradesman did, they would have considerable difficulty in discovering what had been done with so much money. We had built threa times as many ships as we bad got at present, and yet none had been destroyed in war, nor damaged, nor lost. There were se veral Lords of the Admiralty receiving 1,0001. a-year, and an allowance of 2001, and 3001. a year for house rent in addition to their half -pay as admirals. He could no: understand on what principle they were allowed to re ceive their half-pay when they were well paid fur the performance of civil duties.. It bad been his intention to move that the estimates be referred to a select commit tee,properly inquired into, been voted by the last Par iattn as where didnly of not nog* ohu-palrdd be propose to adopt that course. ibue one-third oth themeny He ventured, however, to assert that when' these ac counts went to the audit-office not one of the sums would be found to have been expended actually for the purpose for which it had been voted. . Sir F. SMITH did not agree with the gallant admiral who had spoken, that we could not man a fleet to go to war with France. He had.seen our fleet in the different ports of the country, and he had come to a very different conclusion, and he hoped that the First Lord of the Ad miralty would be induced to grant the commission sug gested by the gallant officer, because he believed the re port it would give would confirm what had been adopted by the Government. He approved of their building line ot-battle ships, and thus preparing themselves to cope with any enemy. The gallant admiral said we were no., provided with a sufficunt army wherewith to meet an enemy, but be ventured to differ with him in that respect. Before a war could take place we would have some warn ing, and ample time would be given to provide a eta oient force to assert our rights. With regard to the esti mates before the committee, he must say ti at he never saw any which were more comprehensive, or had been prepared wihh greater minuteness or clearness. Sir J. TRELAWNY complained of the absence of a sufficient audit, and said that although for the last seven years sums varying from 5,009;000/. to 8,000,0001. a year had been voted, we were, at the breaking out of,the last war, deficient in all those appliances which were necessary to the proper carrying out of that war, and were therefore unable to strike that blow in the Baltic which might have . been struck. He deprecated the un wise and wasteful system of paying off and dismantling ships on their arrival in this country, and suggested that they should be kept in a state of efficiency. He believed that by judicious management convict labour might be made available to a considerable extent in connection with naval works, and a great saving th ere by e ff ecte d to the country. He could not justify the high estimates in consequence of the two wars in which the country was engaged. With regard to masters in the navy, he thought that they ought to have the same o pp or t un i ty of rising in their profession as privates had in the army, and not be compelled to remain as masters all their life. Then, as to the naval yards, he saw no necessity to keep admirals at the head of them. Sir O. WOOD said, in reply to the questions of hon. members, that a new uniform was being prepared for the navy. According to the new regulations a school ship had been stationed at Portmeuth and Davenport for the reception of the naval cadets who would, for th e future, go to sea with far more knowledge of their pro. faction than hitherto. The gallant admiral, the boo. member for Southwark, had stated that during the war the navy had received only 400 men from the merchant service. He (Sir C, Wood) was not in a position to say how many had really been received from the mercantile marine, but he knew that during the first two years of the war 16,000 men and 4,000 boys entered the Itoyal Navy, and ho was at a loss to know where those 16,000 men came from if not from the merchant service. Tho gallant admiral bad also said that it was wrong in the Admiralty to pay off and not recommission ships, but he was happy to tell the gallant member that the Admiralty had recommissioned the Boseawen, which bad just returned home. The honourable and gallant member had attributed unworthy motives to the Admiralty by stating that it was the wish of the First Lord to keep down the service of the captains, and so force them on the retired list, when it must be manifest that if the Admiralty had any such wish they could best carry it out by employing a few captains in continuous service, and thus exclude the majority from the oppor tunity of serving. With respect to the principle on which the retired list was framed, he did not wish to speak. In France no officer could serve after a certain age, and in America the United States Government, acting on the same rule, lately discharged a large num ber of officers without balf-pay or any remuneration. Here the sole was not to keep in active service as an admiral any officer who had not served a certain nuns. her of years, and the result of it was that they were getting down to the appointment of admirals of a rea sonable age. With regard to the establishment of coal depots end the building of transports, the Admiralty was taking every possible step for the advantage of the country. The coast-guar3, for only 8,000 of whom he this year took , a vote, were rated upon the bo'oks of three ships, in which they were trained for the perform ance of their duties. It was desirable to keep a large supply of timber in the dockyards, that it might be sea soned by the time it would bo required, and it was by all means necessary that an officer of high rank should act as dockyard superintendent. The vote was then put and agreed'to, as were also a vote of 1,349,3331. to complete the sum necessary for the payment of the wages of sailers and marines to the 31st of March, 1858, and another of 53,9221. to com plete the sum necessary for their victualling for the same period. On the motion for the vote of 84,2171. to complete the sum necessary for the payment of salaries and contingent expenses at the Admiralty. Mr. W. WILLIAMS complained that there were no fewer than 13 solicitors employed in the Admiralty. Admiral BUNCOMBE thought the residences al lotted to the Lord of the Admiralty ought to be turned into public offices. Advertingto the appointment of Mr. Phima to the office of Secretary to the Admiralty, he characterised it as an unfortunate one, and inquired what were the causes which led to his retirement. Sir C. WOOD, in reply to Mr. Williams, said that considering the extent of the legal transactions of the Admiralty. 13 solicitors were not too large a legal staff. Sir C. 'NAPIER asked if it was the intention of the Government, in the plan for the proposed new public offices, to make any provision for removing the civil de partment of the Admiralty from Somerset-house to the new buildings. Mr. OSBORNE replied that no such removal was con templated by the Government. Referring to an observa tion which had fallen from the hon. and gallant member opposite (Admiral Duncombe) respecting the retirement of Mr. Phinn from the Admiralty, he wished to observe that few persons had done themselves greater honour than Mr. Phinn during the short time he held office. He thought it ungenerous that the gallant admiral did not put himself in possession of that information on the sub ject,which he ought to have had before bringing it for ward. The office which Mr. Phinn had relinquished had been pressed upon him, and he refused it two distinct times; but while he held it he acquitted himself with great credit. He left that office for his profession. What his private reason was for doing no he (Ur. Osborne) was not able to judge ; but as to his appointment being, as the gallant admiral said, an " unfortunate choice," no better choice could be made by the Government. Whe ther Mr. Barrow, or any other clerk of the Admiralty, ought to have been put in the situation, he (Mr. Osborne) would not pretend to say • but he must protest against an hon. member taking advantage of his position in that house to make such a statement as the gallant admiral had made. Admiral DUNCOMBE remarked that whenever he entertained an opinion on any subject, he never should be ashamed to express it either in the house or out of it. Mr. W. MA RTIN, as a near relation of Mr. Phinn, expressed his thanks to the First Lord of the Admiralty, and the hon. member who had just sat down, for having come forward so kindly and generously to defend his relative. The next vote, for a sum of 118,1501., to defray the expenses of the coast-gard service, and the Royal Naval College, was agreed to without remark. On the next vote, for a sum of 33,0011., to defray the expenses of the scientific department of the navy, _ _. Admiral WALCOTF asked what, was the full amount of the expenditure for that purpose ? Sir C.'WOOD said a considerable portion of the sum named was expended in the purchase of chronometers for the royal navy. Sir J. GRAHAM said the statement of his right hon. friend at tae head of the Admiralty appeared to him very clear and satisfactory, and he only rose to a-k for some details as to the scientific expedition lately fitted out to the south coast of Africa. Ssr C. WOOD said, so far as he knew, that expedition was not fitted out by desire of the Admiralty, although the Admiralty had git.ea leave to officers to embark in it. The expedition in question was sent out with a view to further wlorations of the Africin rivers. Sir J. GRAHAM said perhaps his right hon. friend could explain what progress had been made in a survey of the River Thames, for which money had been voted for so many years by Parliament ? Sir C. WOOD said it was quite true money bad been voted on many occasion for the survey of the Thames, but it was found that every year the sands shifted, so that a survey made five years ago would be of no use at the present time. In reply to observations by Mr. WARM and Mr. A. STAFFORD, Str O. WOOD said that estimates respecting the expc dition in question would in due time be laid before the litiu In reply to remarks by Mr. CAIRD, Sir C. WOJD said that the fullest instructions had been given on several occasions to officers of the royal navy to obtain information relative to the most prolific guano deposits in various quarters of the globe. On the vote of 92,2241. for her Majesty's naval estab• lishments at home, Sir J. TRELAWNY, referring to the observations be had already made upon the want of proper encourage ment to masters in the naval service, said that he had not yet received any reply from the right hon. baronet. In the present vote there was included a sum of 8001. for the salary of the captain-superintendent Of Deptford dock yard. Why were not such appointments as those given to deserving masters in the navy ? Such appointments were often filled by persms who had little acquaintance with naval matters. He would move, as an amendment, that the vote be reduced by the sum of 800/. in question. An HON. MEMBER seconded the moti.n. Sir C. WOOD defended the vote, and said masters were not barred from pro motion ar3_ the hon. member a p peared to suppose. He trusted the house would not sanc tion the principle of leaving establishments without pro per responsible heads. Sir J. TRELAWNY said that in the army a private could, by goad conduct, attai❑ a commission, and might rise to a field-marshal. Would the right hon. baronet the First Lord of the Admiralty give him a distinceas surance that the same principle would be applied to the navy I If not his vague assurance that ho was mistaken was of ne weight. He would divide the house upon hi 3 amendment. _ _ -- T6;liCiie then divided, and the numbers were— For the amendment Against it Majority --212 The announcement was received with much laughter. The original vote was then agreed to. Mr. WILLIAMS expressed his surprise that the rum asked for the present year in the case of seven particular dockyards exceeded that of the last year of war. It struck him that it was a very eetraordinary way of mak ing peace reductions upon war estimates. A vote of 15,4231. for naval establishments abroad was next agreed to. Upon a vote of 584,3901. for payment of artificers, navvies, &c., in the naval establishments at home, Sir J. GRAHAM was aexioue to draw the attention of Government and the committee to the object of this vote, although he could not say he was at present prepared to propose any reduction in respect of it. The state ment which the right bon. hart, at the head of the Ad miralty made in the early part of the diFcsssion upon the estimates, to the effect that her Majesey's Government had no intention of discharging any of the naval service men without strictly fulfilling the engagements made during the war, was, he felt sure, hailed with considera ble satisfaction by every member of that house. The dis cussion with reference to the number of ships was very important, but he stiil thought that every con-ideration with regard to the efficiency of the navy was secondary when compared with our having at all times a sufficient number of able eoamen at oar command. There was no thing which had been done that he more approved of than the introduction of continuous service, If there were any difficulty in. reducing the number of trained men, then he thought the country ought to consent to give them small pension& As to economy, there was a difference between the sailors and marines and those eels ployed in the dockyards. The number of artificers and labourers employed in the dockyards was between 10,000 and 11,000. The average number was the same as last year. Was it fitting that, as a peace establishment, they should keep 4,000 shipwrights—being exactly the same number as was employed in the last wars After compli menting Lord C. Paget for his services in the late war, the right hon. gentleman proceeded to say that he agreed with his right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty that it was not expedient to stop the building of the line d-battle ships of the largest size. Whilst the great mari time powers of Europe and also America continued to build ships of the largest class, it was not possible for England, with a due regard to her maritime superiority, to discontinue building them. It was a queston of pro portion in degree, and he agreed entirely with his sight hon. friend (Sir C. Wood) that this country ought to have an ample supply of vessels of the largest class. The great ex.rtion at the beginning of the late war was to have a sufficient force of line-of-battle ships, for the Russians had 30 sail of the line. Soon after the want of gunboats and smaller vessels west's% but note ft e possessei a compa ratively strong force of both line-of-battle ships and gun boats. Ho believed for channel service, and the perposee of defence on our own shores, that those small vessels would be found of inestimable value; but, if they were to struggle for naval superiority in the Atlantic or the Mediterranean, that must be done by ships of the largest size. (Hear.) It was his opinion that, if economy was to be enforced, it ought to be in our dockyards, The number now employed there was 10,800, of whom 4,000 were shipwrights and 750 boiler=makers. This vote had undergone no reduction, He (Sir J. Graham) thought upon this head there ought to be reduction. It was of the greatest importance to keep up the number of effec tive seamen, but he thought that expense ought to be counterbalanced by reductions in other departments Of the service. Sir E.. PERRY spoke on hebalt off' the unskilled labourers in dockyards, whose case deserved the kind and attentive consideration of the Government. The Admiralty order of 1844 was founded upon the necessity of raising the wages of the men, arising from the high price of provisions ; and what he wished to press upon the Government was that a simillar state of things ex isted now. In the article of leather, of coals, and of butter, a large increase of price had taken place. The Admiralty had already given way in abe case of skilled labourers, and he thought that unskilled labour had the same claims. This latter class were in fact worse off than they were 15 or 20 years ago. Ile also wished that the clerks of the Admiralty, in making the proper returns, would so far abandon their old forms as to designate the dockyard cf the town be had the honour to represent (Devonport) by its proper name, and not by that of Plymouth, a place two miles off. Mr. MARTIN said he had ascertained t'iat in the county of Warwick the average rate of wages for la bourers was 125., which was just what unskilled labourers had in her Majesty's dockyards; but there was this 'difference that, in Warwickrhire, a labourer's cottage could be bad for 41. or under 51. a-year, whereas it was imposelble' to get a decent lodging in Woolwich, Chatham, or Rocbeiter, under 71, W., or 101. a-year. He had been told that the smiths in the dockyards had had their wages raised to 15s. because they could not leave the yard in the day time, but were obliged to stay to keep the forges in ; but the ropemakers, who were equally compelled to stay to keep up the fires of the steam engines, were allowed only 12s. Hon. members could form no idea of the distress that now prevailed at Woolwich. Mr. Sergeant KINGLAKE had a word to say for the artisans and mechanics employed at Rochester. He re ferred to the ropemakers, sailmakers, and others. They were receiving 3s. 6d. a day, or 1/. is, a week, whilst in other places the same class of labourers were certainly paid at the rate of 54. a day. If the work were not well' done the consequences might be very fearful. The Go vernment could not get their work well done unless they paid a good day's wage for a good day's work. Sir F. SMITH quite concurred in the statements made with regard to the workmen's wages, and he believed the smiths were the worst paid men in the dockyards, and paid less than in any private establishment. Sir G. PECHELL could not help expressing his great regret at the absence of his right hon. friend, late the member for Gloucester (Admiral Berkeley), With re gard to his popularity in the service, it was due to his having given the men good clothing, good pay, and good living, and no doubt it would be great disappoint ment to him not to be present so witness the effect which his excellent management had produced. Gen. CODRINGTON said the complaints lately made with regard to the pay of the labourers at Woolwich had been great, and although be could not agree that the , wages inside ought to be equal to those paid outside the ' yard, still the proportion ought not to be so great as to put the Government men in a disadvantageous position. In some cases the labourers in the yard had been re duced to 12s. a week, and that was really a low rate of wages ; but the main point was, that the Government were entitled, if they paid the best wages, to the hest workmen which the labour required. Mr. TOWNSEND also complained that 12s. was a very small sum to enable the men to provide for their wives and families. He should be glad to hear of their being paid 15e. or IL a week for their services. Sir C. WOOD was obliged to his right hon. friend (Sir J. Graham) for his observations with regard to the system of victualling, and they should be adopted. As to the number of artificers not having been reduced, he must remind his right hone friend that the number was not increased during the, war. The number this year would not be greater than existed in 1845. The late ad dition was made by hiring extra men. The number in 1845 was 10,872 ' • in 1848, 12,500 ; in 1849, 10,953 ; and in this year, 10,850, being nearly the same number as in 1845. The increased number of the steam ships of the navy required a much larger number of smiths to be employed in the yards than formerly. Extra labourers had to be employed during the war to assist the arti ficers in carrying materials and otherwise, but these men had since, after three months' notice, been discharged. The hon. members for the dockyard towns had pressed hard upon him the question of the wages of the dock yard labourers, and he found it very diffioult to yield to that kind of pressure on the one hand, and to the call for economy on the other. (Hear, hear.) Before the war all these labourers worked for day wages, but when the war brokd out a system of taskwork was introduced, and the pay of the artificers increased. When peace came they had to make reductions, and their first step was to discharge the extra men as he had before stated, and gradually to bring the establishment to what it was before the war, and, as far as possible, to the same scale of remuneration. They had found it necessary, however, in order to retain certain classes of efficient artificers, to increase their pay. The Board of Ad miralty had made inquiry as to the wages paid in private yards, but he would remark that no rule could be founded on that, as they varied very much in the several ports of the kingdom. The dockyard labourer, however, was in a far better state than the agricultural labourer, or the labourer in private yards, because the former was perma nently employed, and when disabled from work he was pensioned fur the remainder of his lite. They ought, therefore, to be able to get efficient artificers and la bourers at the wages they were now giving in the yards. All these, matters were, however, under the consideration of the Board of Admiralty, and all they were anxious to do was, to do justice to the artificers and, at the same time, not unnecessarily increase the expenditure. (Hear, hear.) After some further conversation, the vote was agreed to. A vbte for 33,383/. for the wages of artificers and labourers in naval establishments abroad was agreed to. On the vote of 895,4501. for naval stores and steam machinery, Sir G. PECHELL trusted that the right hon. gentle man had taken into consideration the large consumption of coal that had taken place. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that this was a very imp ,rtant vote. He wished to ask upon what ground they were going to vote this large sum for'naval stores ? Up to the ,present time there had been already voted 7,000,0001. for stores ; and the house really knew noth ing of the stock in hand. He thought they were voting in a year of peace a earn totally unknown to their naval estimates. Another question, well worthy the attention of the committee, was, what became of the stores that were of no nee What were called old stores were very often new stores. The country very frequently lost by this buying and selling, for they bought dear and sold cheap. (Hear, hear.) He believed that if this expen diture was carried out they would have to vote'new taxes next year, He wished also to ask whether all these stores were used for naval war purposes? if any were wanted for miscellaneous purposes, they ought to be separated from the naval war expenditure. After a few words from Mr. KINNAIRD, Sir C. WOOD said that be hoped to give theright hon. baronet some satisfactory explanation on the subject of stores. He had stated the other evening that there had necessarily been a great expenditure this year, and there would be during subsequent years; because the expen diture during the war on certain articles was necessarily heavy. The largest item of expenditure was for the pur chase of timber. The expenditure of shipbuilding timber in 1852 was 18,700 loads. In 1853 it was 20,000 loads; and in 1856 it was 40,0p0 loads. The amount of, ship building timber in store on the 31st December, 1855, was 63,000 loads, which was reckoned to be three year's consumption ; and on the 31st December last year there were 56,000 loads, being 7,000 loads below the esta blishment. When war was being carried on, they had to enter into contracts for the supply of timber which generally ran over two.or three years, and in point of fact there were contracts running now for a greater amount of timber than would be deliOered during the nex, I . year, However, they would be leaving the yards in an improper state if they did not, at an early a period as possible, get the timber up to the establishment. Sup• pose a sudden demand came, what would be said if' they left the yards below the establishment of 'seasoned timtier ? The name reasoning applied to most of the items of heovy stores—hemp, canvass, and copper. Tne expenditure of last year was far beyond the ordinary course, but it was absolutely necessary under the cir cumstances. He assured the committee, on the autho rity of the superintendent of stores, that none of the army stores had been sold which were available for the navy. Mr. BLAKEMORE regretted BO great a reduction as was proposed in the vote for our iron steam navy from 600,0001. to 345,0001., for he was satisfied it was one of the most important departments in which this country contended with the rivalry of other nations. The vete was then agreed to. On the vote of 278,415/. for new' works, improve ments, and repairs in the naval establishments, Sir J. GRAHAM wished the right hon. gentleman to give some explanation of the large outlay for repair of machinery at Chatham, amounting to 160,0001., and 55,0001. for the same purposes for Pembroke dockyard. He also complained that there was 26,0001. for the break water at Plymouth ; but he was at a loss to know how the money was to be employed. Mr. MAGUIRE wished to draw attention to a sub ject which Wa3 not only unfair to Ireland, but dangerous tothe empire. Ile found that t here were sites fel-600,000/. for works in England, and oily 1,500/ for works in Ire land. Queenstown, w hich was one of the finest natural baritones in the ;world, was altogether neglected, and in case of vessels being driven by ni,:tress into this harbour there were no mews o cf assisting the;:w at the command of the Government ; the st?am tugs beie'oging to the merchant service wel) employed, and it een: 3 often a mercy that the vessels were n ot lost. Mr. BLAKEMORE asked what steps the Govern meet had taken f®r the protection of commerce in the Bristol channel? Sir C. WOOD said--At Chatham, where vessels were admitted for repair, and finally fitted ont, it had been properly determined to take additional land for the con struction of a basin and other works, which it was hoped might be executed entirely by convict labour. Convict prisons had been buelt on the adjacent ground, end cen victs had been placed in them in considerable numbers. The works at Sheerness were on a comparatively small scale, and the position of the place was so inconvenient that he almost grudged the money, but it became neces sary to make some preparations for vessels coming in there for repair. With regard to Queenstown he could not hold out any hope that any large works would be un dertaken in Cork harbour. In reerence to the Bristol Channel he bad to state that a coast-guard vessel had been stationed at a certain distance up the c hannel, but as the position was found to leie very dangerous, it h ad Leen rettloved td a place of greater seco:ltY* Sir .14 GRAIIAM: expressed hie cue force regret , t im of marines was to 1?e rednced. It was of the iHo- I:iartauoe to maintain that face With d ltirgo establish went; even in a time of peace: This was a qii6stlon which could tinlk be regarded in Conjunction with the "ekes /or the army. lie was decidedly of opinion with the gallant admiral, that the larger portion of the garri sons of the outports should consist of marines, particu larly i)evettporti rortertiottbi Chatham, and Woolwich, and it was quite possible by some arrangement with the Minister for War to have occupied by marines in a time of peace some of the barracks at those places which had heretofore been tenanted by the army. Sir C. WOOD said that at Woolwich there were good and extensive barracks for the marines, and it would, therefore, be unnecessary to make any additions at that place. The barrack accommodation at Portsmouth and at Plymouth was insufficient for the accommodation of the soldiers, and it would therefore at present be impos sible to station the marines in barracks at those places. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 20,0001. for medicines and medical stores was next agreed to. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again. TRANSPORTATION AND PENAL SERVITUDE BILL. On the motion of Sir 0. GREY, the third reading was fixed for this day (Tuesday) BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY (IRE LAND) BILL. This bill was read a second time. BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY (IRE LAND) NO. 2 BILL. The house then went into committee on this bill. An explanation was given by the ATTORNEY GENERAL for IRELAND as to the 014 cts of the bill, which, he said, would ultimately effect a considerable saving for the public, and lead to the better administra tion of justice. There were no new appointments. After a few words from Mr. Henley, Lord J. Manners, and Mr. Macartney, who wished for a select committee to examine into and report upon the state of the Irish bankruptcy law, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND again explained the enactments of the bill, and defended its proyisions. No lees than 4,0001. a year would be saved by the measure. Mr. I. BUTT could not see the necessity of giving 1,000/..a-year to two -commissioners of bankruptcy for doing the business which they paid the Right Hon. Mr. Hatchell 1,8001. a-year for not doing. (Laughter.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND ex plained that the increase in the salary of the commis sioners was only a fair equivalent for the additional labour imposed upon them. Mr. S. FITZGERALD wished to be informed what would be the total increase on the expenses connected with tho Bankruptcy Court? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said it wou'd certainly not exceed 1,8001. probably n0t1,5001. The remaining ,clauses were then aereed to, and the bill passed through committee. THE CASE OF CAPTAIN WOOD. Capt. ARCHDALL moved for an address for copies of all correspondence between Capt. Wood, late .pay master of the Battalion Depot at Winchester, and the War Department, relating to office accommodation at Winchester, additional assistants, and resignation of the paymakter ; and of a memorial dated the 3d day of January, 1856, presented by Captain Wood to the Minister of War, the reply thereto, and of all correspon deuce consequent upon and relating to the said me morial and its contents. • Sir J. RAMSDEN said that he regretted he was under the necessity of , opposing the motion, upon the ground that the case was only one of a great number of similar claims constantly brought before the War De partment, all of which were dieposed of in strict com pliance with the established regulations. Government was of opinion that it would prove most detrimetnal to the public service if that house was called upon to inves tigate each particular case. He trusted that the gallant officer would not attribute the course which he was adopting eitber to any disrespect to himself or to a wish not to produce the correspondence, but solely upon general and public grounds. (Hear, hear.) Capt. ARCHDALL expressed a hope that the house would not rest satisfied with the right hon. gentleman's explanation—the correspondence for which he moved contained all the facts of the case, and he felt bound to press his motion—the house would then have an oppor tunity of judging the merits of the case. He trusted the house would do justice to an officer who had faithfully discharged his duties for 41 years. Lord PALMERSTON expressed ahope that the house would not agree to the motion, which would be to adopt a principle that would embark them in "a sea of troubles." Would the house constitute itself a court of appeal for the War-office ? Captain BOLDERO expressed a hope that his hon. friend would not press his motion to a division. Motion negatived without a division. INFANTRY AND CAVALRY. Sir J. TRELAWNY moved an address for copies of all reports of the inspectors general of infantry and cavalry since the appointments of those officers. Sir J. RAMSDEN opposed the motion on the ground that its production would be detrimental to the public service. Sir W. CODRINGTON also opposed the production of the returns. Mr. P. O'BRIEN took the same view. RATING OF MINES. On the motion of Mr. KENDALL, the following mem hers were appointed a select committee on rating the royalties of mines :—Mr. Kendall, Mr. Michael Williams, Mr. George Cavendish, Mr. Child, Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Philips, Col. Pennant, Mr. Ridley, Mr. Spooner, Mr. 11. Vivian, Mr. Hume, Mr. H. Herbert, Mr. Colville, Mr. Wm. 0. Foster, Mr. Davey, and Mr. Dudley Fortescue. BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS. On the motion of Mr. BUTT for nominating a select committee on this subject, Mr. CAIRNS moved that Mr. Adderley's name be removed from the list, with the view of substituting that of Mr. Davison. The SPEAKER decided that the hon. member must give notice of his motion to appoint Mr. Davison. The following members were then nominated to be a committee, Mr. Adderley's name being struck out : Mr. Butt, J. Manners, Viscount Goderich, Mr. Kirk, Mr. Baxter, Mr. Massey, Mr. Fergus, Mr. Clark, Mr. Cheetham, Lord Naas, Mr. Cobbett, Mr. Wise, Mr. Turner, and Mr. Packe. CONTRACTS (PUBLIC DEPARTMENTS). On the motion of Colonel BOLDERO, the following members were nominated to the select committee : Col. Boldero, Mr. Corry, Sir Charles Napier, Mr. Os borne, Mr. Muntz, Viscount Duncan, Mr. Mitchell, Lord Claude Hamilton, Sir John Ramadan, Mr. West head, Colonel North, Mr. Philips, Mr. Puller, Mr. Lid dell, and Sir John Hammer. The house rose at half-past 1. Country Markets, CHELMSFORD-MAY 15. Wheat to-day experienced a rather dull sale, althong the attendance was good, and but few sales were effected, and those at a reduction of is on the best wheats and 2s oat inferior. Spring corn firm at the prices of last week. Wheat, white, old, per s. s. s. s. qr.3l 71 i Oats, per qr 24 30 new.... 3 t 70 Peas, Partridge 41 44 red, old 29 61 White 39 47 new.... 29 (A Boiling 39 46 Barley 35 46 Dun 37 40 Chevalier 40 61 I Beans, Tick 35 40 Grinding 35 46 1 Harrow ticks 39 48 Malt 73 77 1 Mazagan 34 ___. Ditto, new... 34 entities of Corn, &c., received ►m the following ports, frcm tclusive. +5 I CI 0 e; 160, , ed g 4 0 p I. 2' 525 - SOB - 669 - - 1160 - 1747 VOLCHEST,ER-MAT 16. Ch wailer 75 79 Official Statement of the Qua] in the port of London, fro] May 11 to May 16, both ing Colchester Harwich Leigh Siaidou 1 155 A good supply of wheat to-day; the prices asked for best samples must be quoted 2s per qr. lower. In Spzing sore very little doing, and prices for all sorts at late rates. Prices to-daywere as follow :—Wheat, white, 60s to 68s; red, 51s to 60s; barley, 4!s to 48s ; oats, 26s to 28s ; beans, Mazagan, 36s to 384 ; middle and small, 38s to 445; peas, white, 38s to 42s ; grey, 40s to 425. KIRKCALDY-MAT 16. To-day we had a large supply of wheat, which had * ready sale at about 2s per qr. reduction upon last week's prices. Barley and oats were in small supply—the former sold slowly at is decline, and the latter at prices the same as on last market day. Wheat. 1 Barley. Oats. I limns. First 59. Od 48s 0,1 31s Oil Os Oa Second. 37s Od I 29s 6l Os oa Third 32s Oct I 333 01 25s Od Os Oa Oatmeal, 3Gs to 335-per bag of 2SOIb: COIL MAR ?T.—MAY 13. the close of the market. Prices of Coals per ton al s (1. Bell's ,Primrose l3 0 Bebside's Hartley l7 3 North Percy Hartley _l5 6 Wallsond, &o. g d. Russell's Hat on 16 6 reos lB ( 1 [Attrobton l7 ",,, Braddyll l6 ° Lyon's Stone Coal tl • 37 ; sold, 34. Wsllsend, &o. Haswell is C Ships at market B I,R T S. Or .A On the 17th inat., at 28, Clarendon-road, Maids-hill Mrs. John Halse. On the 17th inst., at Hamilton-square, Birkenhead, the lady of John Carmichael, Esq. OF A D.YCGIITER. On the 17th inst., Mrs. Valentine Vyse, 30, Ludga{e• street. On the 1711 inst., at 2, Chester-place, Hyde-park-squa re ' the wife of Henry Trowor, Eq. MARRIED. On the 16th inst., at St. Martin's-in-the-field., Georg? Lloyd Williams, Esq., late Captain in H.M.'s 24th Red, meet, to Elizabeth Jane, eldest daughter of Thomas Free man, Esq., of 4, Harley-place. ra On the 14th inst., at Clapham Church, Mr. Ri ch Mitchell, of Park-hill, Clapham, to Elizabeth, the eld daughter of the late Benjamin Fellowes, Esq., of Ludg litlir street, city. DIED. - aged 67. aged 69 .; at Leatherhead, Mr. Charles ? S An , :1,0 16th inst., at Park-road, Dalston IlenrY Ls Cren E 0 '- s ''' - •-4 On the 101 ii.... Lure' On the 16th inst., at Enmcre, Somerset, the Rev. John Poole, rector of Ennaore, ley-on-Thames, Lieut.-Col°l3°l John n n s tt a l r s t t!i fo i l u rn st e ., ,i n v t o H f `' 7 h t - h A 7usiliers, aged 57- c On the 15th inst. 'E. P.. taro in the 15th Zing's Lii;tht Dragoons, youngest son the late Sir John .Flenslowe, a ,,, d 85. Pi t ' ee Ilenslo7e, Esq., formerly gifo'r On the 17th inst., at 1, Park-crescent, Portland- Clement Wigney, Esq., aged 56. „.„.:01 ,1 On the 16th inst., at M ar g ate, Mr. L. A. , ~„ Camden-street, Camden-town, aged 56. of On the 16th inst., Henry Uilliam second s' 3l ' o r Carr Beard, Esq., of W eibeck-street,-sq aged 4 years. ...„—...,..-------...-----..----.. - ------ - - - -,-,n -VOW"' LONDON : Printed and Published by I,lllllm-,„g. l'in of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun `-''' o , - " ta p, 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in th e of Middlesex, Tuesdq, May 10,1857. - t POT. veil taa, th e i twi, Pro 15 aa, Lon and ohm v e3 tlt t nth thi In Ar so f ate tie