The Sun. — London, England, 1847-04-28 00:00:00

erlitrb ISbitton IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. JUVENILE OFFENDERS BILL. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition.) Mr. LAW said, that while he wished the Bill to be withdrawn, he must still say that he agreed with its principle, and considered that the time had arrived when at was necessary to adopt means of proceeding against offenders in a more summary manner than at present. He thought what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment was, however, su ffi c i ent t o s h ow t h a t th e time had arrived when it was fit to discuss the present Bill. He was quit e oppose d to the summary jurisdiction which this Bill proposed to give the magistrates. He did not object to the Hon. Baronet having introduced such a Bill to promote discussion, but he should be compelled to oppose it as a measure. He hoped that the admission o f th e p r i nc ipl e o f the measure by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Depart ment would induce the introducer of this Bill to with draw it. He thought that the subject was too extensive a one to be introduced by any private Member of that House who had not received a legal ed ucation, and who was not connected with the administration of public justice. He hoped that at least the Right Hon. Baronet would postpone the second reading of this Bill until the report from the Upper House was laid upon the table. Mr. B. DENISON said, that he for one should feel it necessary to oppose this measure if it were pressed. It had a direct tendency to do away with one of the principal sateguards of the English subject—namely, trial by jury. He hoped that the magistrates of this country would not attempt to have any such power de puted them, for there was, even under the present public system, a great difficulty in trying m an y o f t hi s class of offenders at public quarter sessions. That diffi culty would be much increased by the operation of the Right Hon. Baronet's Bill, and he hoped that the house would not sanction it. Sir J. PAKINGTON said that, after the expression of the sense of the House against this measure, he hoped the House would permit him to make a few observa tions. He did not when he came down to the House that day anticipate any such opposition as the pleasure had met with, especially after the favourable reception it had received in the first in stance. He did think that such a measure as the pre sent one would have been better in the hands of the Government, or in the hand of some professional man, and he regretted that it had been left to him. The first objection of the Hon. Member for Bath as to the exer cise of there being large power by the magistrates—in private was certainly correct. He quite admitted that these powers ought to be exercised publicly, and in 99 cases out of 100, these powers would be exercised in public. The power given to the magistrates of England under the 7th and Bth of George IV., were infinitely greater than the ones ho proposed to give them. Under that Act, any single magistrate sitting in his private parlour might send any offender to prison for not six, but twelve months. He begged the Hon. Member for Bath to reflect that those who were magistrates, and who objected to this measure, that they were already possessed of much greater power. The provisions of this Act were framed under the report and recommendation of the Criminal law Commissioners in 1837, who stated that the powers to be exercised were not so great as those of which the magistrates were already in possession. Sir . Edward Ryan, the head of the C r i m i na l L aw Com mission, had given him (Sir J. P a ki ng t on ) perm i ss i on to say that his opinions wer e en ti re l y i n f avour o f t h e principle of this measure. The Hon. Member for Bath had also objected that w hil e th e Bill p ro f esse d to avoid the necessity of imprisonment, it gave the power of inflicting it, and thus inculcated the very evil it sought to avoid. Although in some instances imprisonment could be inflicted, it would be inflicted at once without the necessity of a long imprisonment before conviction. It would remedy the evil of infants having to stand before the bar as felons, and, in many instances, a very strong feeling had been shown by the judges in order, if possible, to discourage the practice.—(The Hon. Member here read extracts from the speech of Sir John Campbell, from which it appeared that he considered the Bill unquestionable.) He must now ex press his great regret for the manner in which the Right 1 1 . 0 n. Gentleman the Home Secretary dealt with the Bill. When he (Sir J. Packingtoii) introduced the Bill the Right Hon. Gentleman gave him a good reception, but now, o n th e secon d rea di ng , h e withdrawhis support on t h e groun d s of the details be ing objectionabl e . H e b egged, however, to tell him that these details were considered under good authority, but to remove all objection he was quite willing to reconsider them before a Committee up stairs, when the Right Honourable Gentleman would have an opportu n i ty of stating the points which he objected. He hoped the Right Honour able Gentleman would accede to the proposition and not throw the weight o f hi s authority against ' the Bill, the more especially as it had cost him (Sir J. Pakington) a good deal of trouble, and had not been brought for ward without the most careful consideration. He thought the Bill was demanded by a sense of justice and mercy, and he had received the greatest encouragement from all parts of the country in bringing it forward. He would not, therefore, withdraw it. He would submit to any fair proposition for the amendment of the details, but he would entreat the House to give its sanction to the Bill, and read it a second time. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he would vote for the second reading of the Bill. His Right Hon. Friend (Sir George Grey) did not oppose the principle of the Bill ; all he wished was, time for the further consideration of the details of the measure. He (the Attorney-General) had great ()ejection to many of the details —which were principally objections referring to omissions. By the vote he now gave, he only wished to be understood, as offering the principle of the Bill; and he hoped his Hon. Friend would adopt the course of allowing the Bill to go up stairs, or to withdraw it for the purpose of allowing time for the in troduction of a measure of a more comprehensive na. Lure. Mr. HENLEY thought the measure did not go far enough. The question, in his opinien, ought to be taken up by the Government, and dealt with in a com prehensive manner. He disapproved entirely of a great many of the details of the Bill, and if it was pressed to a division, he should vote against it. Mr. PACKE was in favour of the principle of the Bill ; arid, though he objected to many of the details, he thought some measure of the kind was so necessary, that he would consent to any postponement. Mr. ADDERLY said that the principle of separate imprisonment was just gaining ground in this country ; but that principle could not be carried out with regard to juvenile offenders, towards whom a system of corporal punishment should he adopted. lie did hope that the Bill would be allowed to go to a second readin. Mr. B. ESCOTT said that it was quite clear that the present Bill would not pass during the present ses sion. Even if the second reading were carried by a division, :it would be sent to a Committee up-stairs, and them like many others it would not be heard of until some better considered measure was introduced to the attention of the House.— (Hear, hear.) He hoped that the honourable Baronet would not go to a division, for they all felt that something should be done ; but the present measure would have the effect, it was agreed by all putties would only render matters worse than they were at the pre sent. He would vote against the measure. 3lr. ROBERT PALMER thanked his Hon. Friend for bringing the question under the consideration of the House, he considered that the value of the article should be taken as the criterion of the punishment to be in flicted on the offender. This he considered to be a valu able amendment at present. The stealing of an apple subjected the offender to the same punishment as the stealing of a more valuable article. There were many provisions of the 13 11 of which he did not approve, but he thought it would be a very desirable course to send the measure to a Committee, who would have an opportunity of examining into the question. Mr. T. EGERTON said that he would vote for the second reading of the Bill, in order to its being sent to a Select Committee; at the same time, he felt himself bound to say that there many of the provisions of the Bill to which he entertained the most decided objection. Mr. PROTHEROE said that if the question came to a division, he would rote for the Right Hon. Baronet, in order to recognise the principle of the measure, but therere were many provisions to which he could by no means assent. The House then divided, when there appeared -23 For the Amendment Against Majority The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be commit t ed. R&TING OF TENEMENTS BILL (No. 2). Sir G. GREY moved the resumption of the debate on this Bill. He said • it was proposed to apply the Bill to the whole country, and not exclusively to towns. The Honourable se ti r entleman the Member for Stroud (Mr. Poulett (the Poor and IlighTe) R had a Bill on the paper Rates Excemption Bill), which professed to obtaininth:e different object as the Rating of Tenants Bill, but Grey) did not think it would an" Way; but he (Sir G. w r the end for which to intimate that it was designed, and he therefor: begged readin g he could not support the second Mr. B. OSBORNE said the Bill now gboeff his Bill. bad caused the greatest consternation amongore the House per sons who, on the score of poverty, had been hitherto exempted from the payment of rates, and therefore hoped the second reading of the Bill would not be [t o g " he to by the House, as it woad call upon person s te r p e a ecl y rates who were wholly unable to do so on account of their poverty. Mr. POT:LETT SCROPE objected to the Bill, on the ground that it would entail great hardship upon the poor. The present law was enacted in the 54th year of George 111., and invested magistrates with the power of exempting persons from the payment of rates who were unable to do so cn acceunt of their poverty ; and thus a vast proportion of the cottage pro perty of the cottage property of the country had been exempted from the payment of rates ; but if this act were passed, it would compel the landlords to impose a higher rent than Tiftstef4;e on their tenants, or compel the tenant, if the duty &paying the rates did not devolve on the landlord, to pay a sum in.addition to his rent, though, perhaps, barely able to do that. A vast number of petitions, bad been presented from the poorer parts of the kingdom in favour of his Bill, and amongst them there were two from the county with he was COClatted C;Lie stated that the cottage property of the place formed one twenty •secend part of the whole house property, and that nearly all the cottages under 61. were exempted from the payment of rates. In Liverpool there were 40,000 cottages, 3 9 ,000 of which were exempted from the payment of rates. The rates on the whole amounted to about 100,0001. a year, but not morc than 70,000/. had been collected during the last three years, showing that 30,0001. a year had been remitted on the cottage pro perty of Liverpool—(Hear, hear)—but, if this Bill were passed, the occupiers of the cottages so exempted would have to pay tkis 30,0001. But as the occupiers would be unable to pay this additional tax, it would fall upon the landlords, who were mostly small tradesmen, who had invested some of their savings in house pro perty—he would, therefore, be directly taxed ; but if the occupier were in a condition to pay it his rent would have to be increased in order to enable the landlord to do so. Thus those least capable of bearing such a tax would suffer; and if mining and other property was to be exempted, he saw no reason why the poor man's cottage should not be placed in a similar condition. Persons who speculate in the building of improved houses for the poor would be discouraged and the poor would suffer. Such speculations conferred a great benefit on society by building cottages for the p oor , b ecause t h ey supp li e d the demand made by the poor for cottage accommodation, but if any impediment were thrown in their way they would discontinue their speculations on account of the improbability of obtaining adequate remuneration, and the poor, as he had said, would suffer. No one would lay out 1001. in cottage property, if he knew that he would have this additional burden imposed npon him. They would not do well to put a stop to the demand for cottages, because the health of the poor w a s pro moted by a residence in them. They should also bear in mind that the population was increasing at the rate of 800 or 1,000 a day, and that the demand was thus increased. The question, therefore, resolved itself into this, whether they would throw an obstscle in the supply of that demand or not?—(Hear, hear.) If they did put a stop to it the poor, instead of being domiciled in cottages would be compelled to reside in single rooms owing to the high rent. Whole families were now crowded in single rooms in houses badly drained and ill-ventilated, and immediately ill-health and physical deterioration were the natural results, and it was, therefore, the duty of the House to promote in every way in its power the giving of proper home ac commodation to the poor. He was perfectly aware of the present mode of excusal—(Hear, hear)—and, there fore, in his Bill he proposed carrying out the benevolent principles of the Act of George 111., and at the same time drawing a line of a ' different and more certain nature between those who could and those who could not pay rates. At present both magistrates and parish officers were put to great trouble and expense in en deavouring to obtain the payment of rates, and the re sult was frequently this :—that the magistrates, owing to the poverty of the persons summoned, often refused to carry out the law, and that the money recovered did not pay the trouble and expenses.—(Hear, hear.) The expense often being 6s. or 7s. for the recovery of 9d. or 10d. Mr. CRIPPS—The Honourable Member for had said that this Bill caused a ferment through out the country. He (Mr. Cripps) had pre sented twenty petitions in favour of this Bill. He believed that the Bill would have an ef fect quite different from that which the Hon. Gen tleman opposite apprehended. He denied that houses under 51. a year should be exempted from taxation. He had never heard from any one outside the House one single word of objection to this Bill, which he considered to be a most called for and excellent measure. Mr. VERNON SMITH thought it would be better for the House if Hon. Gentlemen would confine them selves to the Bill before them. The Hon. Member for Stroud quite misunderstood the question, and he believed that the speculators in cottages were anything but be nefactors to the poor, for a speculator would of course build cottages as cheaply as possible, in order to evade the payment of poor-rates. He denied that stock in trade was exempted, and he considered that the principle of the Bill, namely, that of charging the owner, went to the foundation of the evils that at present ex isted, and it was a principle that he would wish to see extended. His only objection was, that which was urged by his Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department, namely, that there was a Committee sitting up stairs on the law of settlement. Colonel WOOD was surprised to hear stated by her Majesty's Government the grounds on which they were opposed to the Bill. There was sufficient evi dente of overseers and other functionaries on this subject, to show the evils that existed at pre sent, and this measure would to remedy. The Honourable Gentleman read an extract from the report of the Commissioners of local taxation, com plaining the present mode of assessment. In the case of Merthyr Tydvil there were 8,000 cottages under 6/, a year. Now, if the occupier was the owner of the cottage, he was charged according to the rating, but if he was not, then he was exempted. He hoped that the Government would not prevent the House from going into Committee upon this Bill. Captain PECHELL said, that he always understood that the object of the House meeting on Wednesdays was, that they might calmly discuss measures which they might not be able to enter upon at another time. He was somewhat surprised that the Gallant Colonel who had just sat down had not spoken with his usual calmness. lie had told the House that the Act had failed in Liverpool through the corruptness of the overseers, who wished to overweigh the democratic influence.—(Bear, hear.) lie thought that it was just the reverse. lie conceived that they would be doing a great injustice by not assessing the poor, for they would prevent them in the rural districts from at tending the vestry meetings. This Bill would prevent parties rated under 61. from attending vestries. Colonel S. WOOD said that there was a clause pro posed in the Bill, by which all parties assessed might attend at these vestries. Captain PECHELL said that the Bill was, in his opinion, a total disfranchisement of the poorer classes lof Parliamentary electors. They said that they were going to provide properly for town, and they knew that it was absurd to attempt to legislate in that way for any large towns such as Birmingham, Manchester, and Li verpool. He thought that there would be a great diffi culty in passing :this Bill, unless some provision was made for the election of guardians. After a few words from Mr. CRIPPS, Colonel SIBTHORPE said that there would be some difficulty in the first place to discover the owners of these small cottages, and where they did find them, as their owners were poor people who did not get their rents, it would be rather hard to call upon them to pay the rates :from their limited means. This was a ques tion which demanded as much consideration from the House as the case of the occupier of these tenements if the rate was not paid within a certain time, the over seer had a right to distrain upon the occupier, and who in his turn had to look to the landlord for in demnification, by a redaction from the rent, He thought that the cases of both owner and occupier demanded equal consideration, and this Bill, worded as it was, instead of giving a relief to the poor occupier, gave the power of distraining upon him and oppressing him. Mr. BUCK said that, in the case of large towns in agricultural districts, where people invested large amounts of capital in business, the agricultural had to pay for the parts of the district occupied by the esta blishments of manufacture. He thought that the pre sent system of rating wholly inefficient, and he should therefore give his fullest support to the Bill of the lion. Member. Mr. GRIMSDITCH said that this Bill would inflict a very serious injury upon the poor, for the landlord of a house was liable for the rate whether the House w as occupied or not. In times of distress the rent could not be collected, and under this Bill the landlord had not only to be at the loss of his rent, but to pay the rate also. That they might not be able in many instances to do, and thus many poor people would be driven from the only place where they could obtain shelter. On these grounds he should vote against the second reading of this Bill. Mr. HENLEY wished to state the reasons which would induce him to vote against this Bill. It was a subversion of the present system of rating in this country with respect to the poor man. The poor man, under the present law, was, by consent, struck off the list altogether; but now he was to be compelled to pay it. Such a pressure could not be sustained by the poorer classes, and therefore he should oppose the Bill. Mr. ALLEN said, if the Bill did the slightest harm he would not support it ; but he did not believe that it would have an injurious effect.—(Cries of " Divide.") Mr. CAREW supported the 1301. Sir JOHN PAKINGTON was opposed to it, and believed it would effect very great injustice, as it would increase the difficulties of the labouring poor in pro curing cottages. Mx:: PACRIE supported the Bill, and believed it would have a most beneficial effect. Mr. HUDSON objected to the Bill, on the ground of its impolicy and injustice. • It was said to be a measure which would have a good effect towards the poor. but he disagreed in that opinion, and thought it would operate most injuriously in their regard. Mr. BROTIIERTON thought it would be best to postpone the measure for the present. Mr. STANSFIELD thought if this measure passed it would be a disfranchisement of the rights of the poor, 1 and on that account he would give it his most decided opposition. Mr. WOODHOUSE would support the second read ing, as he thought the case in regard to the poor was proved, still he thought, from other considerations, that the Bill could go no further than that stage. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought, from th e great difficulties which would accompany the working of the Bill that it would be found to operate in certain cases most prejudicially. He would therefore feel bound to oppose it, should it be pressed to a division. Mr. BANKES thought it should be a general Bill, hut,t,oautlita supporterthact h h t at e a s n e y conaad rein n 0.. should take place, The House wa ai then to n int divided, when there 1 red. The t F iAll or the second reading appeared--- For 27 1 Maj°rsietqYuently TENANT RrGer Bloltti, (IRELAND). reading ll r.S o l t lA tb l e t A TenantllN Ri g h t Government could not pledge tlietn itpti n the subject. The House raopyreintciple of the Bill, and Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE saidh6thsaectohnde interpose between the Hon . Gentleman and ti7elii sot the Bill conta ined some p rovisions whic h struck at root of all property. He was one of those who formerly thought that the landlords of Ireland ought to be a pro scribed class.—(Laughter.) He confessed such were his opinions while he was in the state of ignorance which moat of the Blerabero of the Souse were ia With respect to the state of Ireland. But two years' residence in that country, had convinced him that instead of their censure the landlords deserved their sympathy.—(Hear, hear.) He had tenants in the south of Ireland who were accustomed to owe him three and four years rent, when he was constantly obliged to forgive the whole amount to, and give them 404 or 501. to get rid of them. quietly. He did not know what better tenant right they desired. He would not oppose the second reading if the Government would pledge themselves not to sanc tion the passing of the Bill. Mr. MONAtIAI.O said that all the Members of the Government were unavoidably absent, and he, therefore, requested the Hon. Member to postpone his motion. Mr. S. CRAWFORD postponed the Bill until Wed nesday next. POOP AND HIGH WAYS RATES. This Bill was also postponed till Wednesday next. COUNTY BUILDINGS BILL. This Bill was then read a second time. The House then adjourned. DEATH of the DUKE of ARGYLL (From the Glasgow Courier, of yesterday.) We regret to have to announce the death of his Grac: the Duke of Argyll. This venerable and excellent nobleman died at Inverary Castle yesterday morning, in the 70th year of his age, having been born on the 21st of December, 1777. In early life he entered the army, and served under the Duke of York and Sir Ralph Abercromby in Holland. He after wards represented the county of Argyll for upwards of 20 years. He retired from Parliament about the year 1821, and chiefly resided at Arden capel Castle, his seat in Dumbartonshire, till his accession to the title on the death of Lis brother, the sixth Duke, in 1839. The part he took in endeavouring to arrest the impending disruption in the Church of Scotland is well known; and although the propriety of legalising the veto law—which would have been the effect of his Bill—will be doubted by many, the attempt was worthy of the descendant of those who had contributed so essentially to its establishment. In private life his Grace was distinguished by the warmest and most generous feelings, united to the highest sense of honour. He was attached to scientific pursuits, and was well acquainted with the principles of chemistry and mechanics. He was a fellow of the Royal Societies of London and Edinburgh, and Knight of the Thistle. He is succeeded in his estates and honours by his only son George, Marquis of Lorne. REGISTRY of BIRTHS and DEATHS DURING THE WEEK ENDING APRIL 24. Deaths registered in the week. Births registered in the week. Males... ... ... 502 Males ... ... ... 718 Females ... ... 479 Females ... ... 699 Total . . — 9-81- Total ... 1,417 RAILWAY COMMITTEES (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP I. The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bills comprised in this group, re-assembled this morning at the usual hour_in Room 30; Mr. W. 0. Stanley in the chair.] THE SOUTH-EASTERN NORTH KENT AND MID RENT LINES. The entire day was occupied in disposing of the clauses in these Bills. The whole of the clauses were agreed to, and the Chairman was directed to report to the House accord ingly. This closed the labours of the Committee. The Commit tee met for the first time on the 11th of March. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, GROUP VI. SALISBURY AND YEOVIL, AND EXETER, YEOVIL, AND DORCHESTER. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition.) Mr. Ford, carrier, gave evidence in favour of the advan tages to be derived from a through competing line to Exeter. The Committee then adjourned till tlNelve o'clock to morrow. GROUP XVI. STOUR VALLEY (NO. XI.) (Continued from our Afternoon Edition.) Other evidence of a general nature was given in favour 01 this line, and the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to morrow. GROUP XVIII. CHELTENHAM AND OXFORD. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition.) To Mr. ALEXANDER'S cross-examination, Mr. Hawkeshaw replied that he had made his examination of the strata at Cheltenham on Saturday and Sunday last, examining the plans and sections on Saturday, and going Over the ground next day, in which he was occupied for four hours. Several pits had been dug, both by the order of Mr. Stephenson and Mr. Brunel. From the levels of the water in these pits he had ascertained the tendency of the water in the strata, and he was satisfied that the works of the railway would not at all exhaust the water in the wells on either side of the course, although to the extent of a hundred and fifty, or, as Mr. Milne conceived, to the extent of two hundred yards on each side. There were two modes of obviating the difficulty, one—the longer—by inserting the culverts, whick would oc casion some little inconvenience ; and the other, by building the walls lint, which would be a shorter plan so far as the wells are concerned, but which would draw the water from theni to a mach larger extent. The time, however, occupied would ❑ot be longer, even on the more protracted system, than six weeks; for he had himself executed a much larger work in that period. There was a canal which had proved from its depth and width inconvenient for the traffic which came upon it, and it was conceived necessary to use boats of twelve feet beam, and drawing four feet and a half of water. In order to adapt the canal for such vessels it required to be both deepened and widened for a length of sixteen miles. The canal was closed for five weeks, and during that time the water was all drawn off, the puddle taken out, the canal widened to the requisite extent, the locks taken down and rebuilt, and walling of stone to the length of several mile=, erected to protect the banks, the water was again let on, and the canal was in use. A portion of this cutting only passed through the wet clay, where there was the flow of water, and he did not conceive that any difficulty would arise on that account, or that the substantiality of the works would in any way be affected by that circumstance, for he had himself about a year and a half ago built a chimney a hundred and fifty feet high, of brick, near Bolton-le-Moors, on a quick sand. In fact it would be considered a matter of no difficulty whatever. The Earl of LINCOLN observed that the Great Victoria Tower, at the Houses of Parliament, was built on the wettest sand lie ever saw. To Sir WALTER JAMES, the witness replied that the work was of such a nature as to enable the contractor to put a great number of men on at once, so that he believed the work would be half executed in the time that was taken in talking about it. To Mr. licnicE, on re-examination, Mr. liawkeshaw re plied that the inverted tiles were not likely to choke, although they WE re laid upon wet sand, and if such a cir cumstance did occur it was easy to make a drain to relieve them. With respect to the wells, they might be affected to some extent, and a compensation could easily be made, and even during the construction of the works a supply of water for the inhabitants might readily be obtained. Mr. Simpson, a civil engineer, chiefly connected with waterworks, and who has much to do with the waterworks in London, stated that he had examined th e s t ra t a o f the sand bed of Cheltenham personally, and bad not the slightest doubt as to the facility with which the water would be directed into its usual course even during the construction of the works. There was certainly some running sand, but the wet sand was agglutinated to some extent by clay and other surreptitious matters. To Mr. ALEXANDER, the witness replied that he had known Cheltenham for some years, but had only examined the strata particularly during his professional visits, and be lieved that no permanent inconvenience would arise, although the wells might be affected during the construction of the works, but they would regain their original level within a month after they were finished. The inverts he should lay upon a flat tile; deemed that quite a sufficient foundation for the purpose. The retaining walls are to be of 34 brickwork, laid in cement and hydraulic mortar, a substance which had of late years been much used by civil engineers in th,. formation of waterworks. The prices for the several portions of the work were, in his opinion, very hand some; they were to be Is. 6d. per cubic yard for excavation, 255. for brickwork, and 35a. a yard for brickwork in cement. In the event of the water coming in, he would keep it down by sheet-piling; and even should the water percolate underneath, the evil might easily be repressed by a sewer. But he had had very great experience in the construction of waterworks—he should think to the extent of 1,250,0001.—and had made a great extent of perfectly water-tight brickwork; indeed he could take the Learned Gentleman at the present time to places forty yards below the Thames, where he would be as dry as he was then. Mr. ALEXANDER expressed his sense of the kindness, but begged to decline the invitation. Mr. Cubitt stated that he had had forty years' experience as a civil engineer. He could confirm the previous testi mony as to the goodness of the prices proposed for the work of this excavation, and also that which had been stated with regard to the facility with which the work could be executed. In order to show the nature of the strata, Mr. Cubitt pro duced two specimens of the sand taken from two streets in Cheltenham, one a remarkably fine dry sand, and the other a coarser sand, mixed with small pieces of stony clay. lle believed the work could not be done in one month, but it might be completed, he believed, in two; and, in his opinion, the draught of the water from the wells would only.be a temporary inconvenience, lasting fora short time. Several engineers from Cheltenham, who are intimately acquainted with the district, confirmed the previous testi mony. Mr. Ball, a land valuer, stated that he estimated the value of property to be taken at IG-I,69A—that in Cheltenham alone being 85,0001. The quantity of land required is 144 acres. Mr. Saunders was recalled to state the difference of the fares in favour of the Great Western Company. This closed the case for the promoters, and it was agreed that Mr. Alexander should open the case of the landowners, for whom he appeared, to-morrow. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP IXXI. EASTERN COUNTIES EXTENSION (HERT FORD AND HITCHIN). (Continued from our Atornoon Edition.) Evidence was given on the part of some Mr. Smith, and other landowners, in opposition to this line. The Committee aim adjourned till twelve to-morrow. GROUP XXIII. The Committee met this morning at twelve, in Room B, Mr. Mackinnon in the chair. SOW WALES DEVIATIONS (FOREST OF DEAN BRANCHES). Mr. TALTIOT, Q-C., opened the merits of the Bill, and was proceeding to can witnesses for the Bill, when Mr. Crtownuat, Q.O , insisted upon being heard before th e Committee, in opposition, on behalf of the Severn and Wye Company, who have a tram-way in the neighbourhood of the proposedter cobursaindeehra.ble discussion whether or not they ought to be heard, the Csirciraittee deliberated, and determined that, if they should admit the arguments of Mr. Crowder, no im provement whatever could be made on the locality. The opponents were, therefore, excluded. Witnesses were then called, who spok a to the ad van t ages offered by the proposed branch running into the heart of the Forest of Dean, so as to communicate with the large and important coalfields in that neighbourhood, and furnish a ready transit to the port of Gloucester. The Committee then adjourned till twelve to-morrow. GROUP XXVI. The Committee met at twelve, Lord Harry Vane in the Chair. GREAT WESTERN (BRANCHES TO EGHANI, STAINES, dce ) Mr. Brunnel, engineer to the company, in his examination by Mr. AUSTIN, stated the scheme, with some slight altera tions, was the same with that of last session, except that it branched through Brentford to the river, and beyond Staines to Egliam. It communicated with Hounslow by a more convenient approach than the South-Western project, and offered large accommodation to traders by water at Brent ford. The gradients were generally easy. The total length, inclusive of the branches, was 17 miles, and the estimated cost 500,0001. Witnesses were then called for the opponents of the line. The Committee then adjourned till twelve to-morrow. GROUP XXI , IL EASTERN COUNTIES (SPALDING AND 1017198E8CH EXTENSION). The Committee met this day in Room, No. 32; Mr. Card. well in the chair. The whole day was occupied in hearing general evidence in favour of the Bill. There was no point raised of general interest. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock. GROUP XXXIII. The case on behalf of the Leeds Central Terminus having closed, the LEEDS, DEWSBURY, AND MANCHESTER (EXTENSION TO W.ELICEFIELD,: d‘c). was proceeded with. Mr. BAINES opened the case in a brief addreq+. The remainder of the sitting was occupied with general evidence, alleging the superiority of this scheme over the other competing schemes in the group. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP XXXIV. The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bills comprised in this group re-assembled at the usual hour this morning, Mr. Baring in the chair. ROCHDALE CANAL (SALE TO DIANCHMS -- TER AND LEEDS RAILWAY)-LWAY). ---- The whole of the day was occupied with general evidence in favour of this sale. The evidence went to show that the affairs of the canal, which had involved an outlay of upwards of 780,000 L, were in a very depressed condition, and it would, therefore, be for the interest of the proprietors of the canal, as well as the public, that this sale should be effected. Mr. I3AINEs addressed the Committee for the opponents of the measure at some length, contending that the railway company were anxious to make a tool of the canal, and sa crifice the interest of the public. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP XLVIII. This Committee resumed its sitting this morning at twelve o'clock; Lord Courtenay in the chair. Members present— Mr. Townley, Mr. Chute, Mr. Seymer, and Mr. B. B. Cabbell. GLASGOW, PAISLEY, KILMARNOCK, AND AYR (No. IV.) CROSSING OF THE CLYDE. On the assembling of the parties, Mr. ANDnEws said, it was his painful duty to inform the Committee thathis clients had received a communication from the Admiralty, which he begged leave to hand to the Commit tee. The effect of it was equally against both companies, that were seeking to cross the Clyde at the point proposed, as it containnd the decision of the Admiralty against any crossing of the riv er at t h e place proposed v by both Companies. What, therefore, he wanted the Committee to do, was, to adjourn the Bills that related to the crossing of the Clyde till Monday, in order that further communication might be made with the Admiralty, to see if an alteration of that decision could not be obtained. The royal Commissions, who had been sent down to inquire into the subject, had had reported strongly in favour of the proposed plan, and that no injury to the river would arise thereon ; it was, therefore, to be hoped that some modification of the Admi ralty's decision would be obtained before meeting again. Mr. Foasrrir, on behalf of the River Clyde and Bridge Trustees, opposed the adjournment. Mr. COCKBURN, on the behalf of the Caledonian Com pany, said that though his clients had not received any communication from the Admiralty, they did not expect a different decision from the one which had just been produced by his learned Friend. He must, how ever, say that it was an unexpected decision. Last year the Caledonian had obtained an Act for the crossing of the river, subject to the approval of the Admiralty; this the Admiralty refused, and the result was that the inhabitants of Glasgow, dissatified with this decision, took measures by which Government Commissioners were sent down to inves tigate the whole matter. They sat three weeks making their inquiries, and made their report in favour of the mode of crossing proposed by the Caledonian Company. The ques tion now was, whether the veto of the Admiralty was to over-ride the discretion of that Committee and the Legisla ture in reference to this matter. The CHAIRMAN inquired whether the Admiralty, in cases like the present, did not communicate to the committee their decision ? Mr. ANDREWS—It is, I lbelieve, always done through the parties who promote the Bill. Mr. COCKBURN thought that if the Committee acting on the decision of the Admiralty, it would be idle to proceed until they saw what could be done to modify that decision. If the Committee on the other hand thought that the report of the Commissioners should modify the veto of the Admiralty, then it would be better to proceed at once. It was a question entirely for the Committee, and he left it to their discretion. He would only remark that they had all their witnesses in town, end if they adjourned for a week or ten days, it would occasion great expense and inconvenience. Mr. ANDREWS said the veto was a most important matter, as by the general Act the Admiralty could veto in all such cases as the present. Mr. COCKBURN suggested that it would be easy to inscrt a clause in the Bill, except it front the operation of the general Act. The question would be for the Committee to say whether they were disposed to adopt a clause, taking the Bill for the crossing of the Clyde out of the operation of the general Act. Mr. ANDP.EWO intimated that all he wanted was an ad journment till Nonday. Their scheme was somewhat dif ferent to that of the Caledonian, inasmuch as it pro ceeded from their line tip the south side of the river, and then crossed; whereas the other scheme was proposed to go in a direct line to the river, and they to cross. The question was, whether the Committee would go on or postpone the matter to see what could be further done, as at present the veto of the Admiralty was against a crossing of the river below Stockwell Bridge. Mr. FORSYTH said his clients had opposed this crossing of the river at great expense, and they were anxious not to be put to any more. For the three past years the proposal for crossing the Clyde had been successively vetoed. He hoped, therefore, the Committee would not allow the parties to proceed with their Bill, unless with the proviso, that if the Admiralty vetoed the crossing of the river, they would nevertheless go on with the rest of their scheme. He, for one, thought it was perfectly hopeless to get the Admiralty to withdraw their veto, and it might, therefore, be considered absolute. He could not be a party to net - dless loss and heavy expenses by adjournment, as he thought-the promoters ought to have ascertained the sentiments of the Admiralty long before now, instead of coming forward with it at the eleventh hour. They knew that the Admiralty had opposed the crossiong for two years past, and it was too bad now to call for an adjourn ment of the question. Ile called on th e promoters o f the now; either to go on w ith the crossing, or abandon it altogether.. thelv o r Billserest t t f o In answer to the CMAIRMAN, Mr. ANDREWS said, the former vet oes o f t h e Ad m i ralty did not apply to the present mode o f cross i ng t h e C lyde, their make scheme their without n ut with the exception of the decision of last year. The pro posal of last year, as of the present one, was to cross the Clyde between the New Glasgow-bridge and Hock well-bridge. Above the former bridge only small vessels ever went, and, therefore, no harm would arise to the navigation by the proposed scheme. Besides, in the present year they were in a different position to what they were last, inasmuch as three gentlemen of great character and talent, one of them a naval officer, had gone clown to Glasgow, and after being fully satisfied, by evidence taken on the spot, reported that no injury would be done by crossing at the point proposed. The room was then cleared for the decision of the Com mittee. On the readmission of the parties, The CHAIRMAN said that the Committee had agreed to postpone the question till Monday next, in order that the Admiralty might be communicated with; and that on to morrow they would take the other Bills in the group that were in a position to go on. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP LI. The Committee assembled this morning in Room No. 29. Present, Sir John Yarde Buller (chairman), Mr. Tollemache, Captain Plumridge, Mr. Newdegate, and Lord John Manners. GLASGOW, DUMFRIES, AND CARLISLE, AND GLASGOW, PAISLEY, !HILMAR NOCE, AND AYR (No. I , ) Additional evidence was called by the promoters of this Bill. Mr. Alexander, examined by Sir T. nature., was called to prove the protest which was put in by the promoters. Mr. Sergeant MURPHY wished to know whether he should be entitled to examine the witness on this subject? Sir Tuomns Pinuars said he did not intend to examine upon the point. The CIIAIRXVN then said that as the Committee had called for this protest, and as the examining Counsel did not desire to examine upon it, he thought that it would be unnecessary for Sergeant Murphy to ask any question on the subject. The protest was then read, and put in. Captain T urner, sh i pmaster, Dumfries, i was ship's hus band of the vesse l s i n wh i ch he h a d an interest. He was well acquainted with the coast and with the navigation of the Solway. The loss of vessels was not by any means rare in the Frith; within the last two or three years no less than six vessels were lost on the coast or on the Solway. He re membered the loss of the Solway steamer, which was bound from Belfast to Port Carlisle. He imported from the English coal fields 1,200 to 1,500 tons yearly. It cost Ss. 6d. at Carlisle, and, with Is. 6d. for carriage, averaged 10s. in Dumfries. The price at Belfast was some 17 s. per tou ; an d the saving, it Kirkcud bright were a port of shipment to the people of Belfast, would be about 35., as compared with the port of Annan at that time. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Mutrnr —He had never known any shipment from Kirkcudbright to Ireland. There was a large trade from Annan. The trade of Dum fries was larger, although Annan possessed a deeper river, and could therefore accommodate vessels of larger burden. He did not say that the Solway was lost in a fog, but he believed that she was crowded with cattle. She was lost at a place called Southerness, about 16 miles below Dumfries. The freight from Port Carlisle to Ireland was 7s. 6d. He could not doubt that if a railway were extended from Canobie to Annan, the carriage of coals to this place would be less by 3s. 4d. per ton than to Kirkcudbright, but then the latter place had the advantage in the sea carriage to Ireland. He knew that at low water ships would be obliged to anchor six miles from shore. He did not know that Lord Selkirk, whose grounds lay between the sea a n d the town, was opposed to railways. as more dangerous aagation Com pany, a merchant, Mr. Henry Smith, living at Fleetwood, 7 and agent for the North Lancashire Steam Issvi and was well acquainted withthe l ports on the Solway. The navigation, of the Solway Frith. than any on the west coast of England. He included the Frith, of Carlisle, Annan, an d Dumfries. Goode entering the Frith, cud intended for Culisle , 'F ere Qblige4 transhipped and conveyed up the river in barges. Annan was a dangerous port for shipping. He did not mean Annan itself, but a place called the Waterfoot, about a couple of miles below. Glencaple was the port of Dumfries, and passengers and goods were 'obliged to be conveyed from thence to Dumfries, a distance of seven or eight miles. When the tide was very low, which occurred perhaps thrice a year, they could not approach Dumfries nearer than Carsethorn, a place about fifteen miles down the river. The witness detailed the number of communications from Whitehaven and Fleetwood to Belfast. The distance from Fleetwood to Newcastle was perhaps 200 miles by rail, while from Kirkcudbright it was little more than 100. Goods sent from Belfast to Newcastle and the east of England at present went round to Glasgow, thence by railway to Leith ; these were re-shipped and reached Newcastle by sea. He considered that competition was absolutely necessary to protect the public against railway companies. An instance in proof of this came under his notice. When only two companies were carrying from Fleetwood to Manchester the prices charged for carriage was as 13s. 4d. per ton ; but, after the North Union Railway came into the field, the price was reduced to 65., while attention to the comforts of the people was greatly increased. He considered that it would be of the highest importance that this Bill should be sanctioned. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Mummy—lt was his opinion that Kirkcudbright, if this railway were completed, would be the port for the traffic of Ireland intended for the south of Scotland. There were some good ports on the Clyde, but none of these would supersede the port of Kirkcudbright as the key to the south of Scotland. Girvaa would not be preferred, for persons would never think of sending their goods,:round by Ayr. He did not know that goods were sent to the south of Scotland in greater increase since the Lancaster and Carlisle Railway had been opened. Return goods from Kirkcudbright would consist of woollen goods manufactured in the district. The only parts which had at present a communication with Ireland were Port Car lisle and Annan, and if the Kirkcudbright Branch were opened he conceived that, instead of one steamer, they would have three. If goods were to be sent from Kirkcudbright to the centre or west of England, they would probably be trans mitted by the Caledonian to Carlisle, and thence by the direct lines to the west and centre—that was, supposing the rates alike; but, for the east of England, he thought they would be sent by the Dumfries branch to Milton, and thence on by the Newcastle and Carlisle. • Captain Russell, harbour-master of the port of Belfast, said that there was a very considerable import trade from Newcastle to Belfast. The freight would be carried at 20s. a ton. If this branch to Kirkcudbright were opened, he thought that the southern trade would be exported from that port, which would be preferredpay steamers on account of its greater safety. Cross-examined by Mr Sergeant MutirnT—He would prefer Kirkcudbright as a sailing port before Annan. By the CHAIRMAN—He would rather accept a ss. freight from Kirkcudbright in preference to a 72. 6d. freight from Annan. By Mr. Sergeant Mummy—The distance from Belfast to Girvan was, perhaps, 52 miles, and 4, Kirkcudbright about 70. There was a great choice of ports accessible at all times on the coast of Ayr. He preferred Lock , Ryan to Kirkcud bright. Mr. John Leathern, flax-spinner, Londonderry, said that the population of that town was 20,000. It had a large and increasing trade, and the exports and imports would be ex tended by the formation of the railways which were now in process. The exports from Derry in the last year were in corn, 22,000 tons; flax, 4,000 tons ; eggs, 14,459 boxes ; pigs, 16,379; butter, 75,000 casks. The trade of Belfast was greater than that of Londonderry, but he did not think that the exports were so great. They had a considerable import trade. Newcastle sent them coal, coke, machinery, glass, salt, soda, and other articles, and received in return corn, provisions, and flax. Mr. Sergeant MURPHY said that he was as muck interested in the traffic as the other side was, and, therefore, he thought it would be unfair to take up the time of the Committee by cross-examining upon this point. Sir THOMAS PHILLIPS said that, provided they were not afterwards met by the other side with the argument, that they had not shown an equal amount of traffic with theirs, he would be quite willing to drop further examination on this point. The Committee suggested that he should confine himself to a few agricultural witnesses. Mr. Kennedy, of Kirkland, was called—He had property in Roxburgh and Kirkcudbrightshires, and leased properties in the counties of Dumfries, Kirkcudbright, Ross, Suther land, Argyle, and Inverness. He paid a rental for these lands of some 6,0001. per annum ; he paid in addi tion for wintering stock 2,030!. He understood that the extent of land leased by him was 200,000 acres, and that his ordinary stock of sheep was 45,000. He was also a cattle-dealer. He calculated that from the east of the water of Urr there would be sent into England, of fat cattle 3,000; half-fat, 16,000; fat sheep, 60,000; lambs, 30,000; store sheep, 15,000. To this would be added, by the Kircudbright branch, fat cattle, 2,000; half-fat, 18,000 ; fat she e p, 20,000 ; store sheep, 20,000. He had framed these calculations on very careful data, and he thought he was justified in think ing them correct. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant MvarHY—At present half-fat cattle were sent into England by Stanmora and Arundel, and so on ; fat cattle were sent to Liverpool by sea, and were shipped at the various ports on the coast. Four fifths of the Galloway breed of cattle were sent to the east of England. The Northern Counties Union to Penrith would answer for their store sheep and cattle, and the Lancaster and Carlisle line to Northallerton (if short and cheap) would afford them still further advantages. Re examined by Sir 'l'. PHILLIPS—The line to Penrith being only 18 miles long would not be of any very great ad vantage to them, and to avoid trouble they world rather go at once upon the main line. Sir THOMAS PHILLIPS was proceeding to call Mr. Hunter, the second largest cattle-dealer in Scotland, to corroborate the evidence of Mr. Kennedy, but the Committee intimated that they were satisfied on this point, and would prefer hear ing evidence on the Canobie coal trade. Mr. Wright, manager of the Duke of Buccleuch's mineral fields, was intimately acquainted with the minerals of the district. At present the districts of Galloway were only sup plied by coal from England, and the cost of Newcastle coals at the different ports might be taken at 16s. Bd. per ton. By the opening of the Canobie branch an abundant and cheap supply could be procured. The length of the fields in the upper series was three miles, and the coal was found in Silt ,earns of an aggregate depth of 35 feet 9 inches. The coal was of a very good quality, being equal to West Cum berland. In the lower series there were four seams of an aggre gate depth of 19 feet 6 inches. The price at the pit's mouth was ss. 10d. They ("Quid be delivered in Dumfries at about Be. 6d., and in Kirkcudbright at something under 10s. Be yond the quantity used for district consumption, be calcu lated that a considerable quantity would be shipped at the port of Kirkcudbright. The coal was adapted for coking, and could be delivered at any of the stations of the Glasgow and Ayr Company at 20s. per ton. The estimate of con sumption of coke by the lines connected with the Dumfries Company,was 40,000 tons, and out of this quantity he thought Canobie would supply one-third. Ile thought that the in • terests of the Canobie field would be better cared for by the Dumfries Company, because the Caledonian might rather choose to encourage the coal which would come the longer distance upon their line. Cross-examined by Mt Sergeant Munrur —He had no experience of railway management, further than that he had frequently sent coals upon railways. He thought now as he thought last year, that if the navigation were equal, and the rates the same, Annan, as being the nearest port to the Canobie district, would be preferred. Re-examined by Sir THOMAS Pmuir—Kirkcudbright was not contemplated last year as a shipping port.—(Laughter.) Mr. Christie agreed in the evidence given by Mr. Wright, of the minerals of Canobie, both as to their quality and extent: Mr. Fawcett, proprietor of certain coal-fields on the line of the Lancaster and Carlisle Railway, said that considerable quantities of coal would be transmitted along the proposed Brampton line. ' Mr. Liddell, provision merchant, Brampton, proved the preference given by the district to the scheme of the Dum fries and Carlisle Company over that of the Caledonian. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Mummy—He did not know which of the schemes passed through the town of Brampton.—( Laughter.) Mr. Sergeant MunruY—Do you, in fact, know anything at all about it ?—(Laugh ter.) Witness—lf I knew I would tell you.—(Laughter.) Mr. CARR put in papers, showing the amount of traffic, &c., from Newcastle to Glasgow. Mr. William Anderson had acquainted himself with the extent of the trade by steam from Glasgow to Newcastle, and it did not exceed 300 tons. The whole amount which would be abstracted from the Caledonian Company by the Dumfries Company would be 4 , 990 t. 7 5. , or , deducting 45 per cent. for working expenses, 2,7741. 14s. The loss to the Caledonian Railway on the Dumfries and Edinburgh traffic would be as equal to 27 miles of their l ine, and to compensate for that loss he brought upon their line at Gretna a large amount of traffic, for which they took no credit in the original prospectus. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant MURPHY—He had heard that this traffic was omitted in deference to !the opinions of the Railway Commisrioners. He had heard that this formed an element in Mr. Locke's design. He had, when examined last year, mentioned only the port of Annan as a shipping station fbr coals, because no other port then existed. The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow, at twelve. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS, Aprd 27. ROYAL COMMISSION. The Royal assent was given, by Commission, to the Fever (Ireland) Bill, and to a private Bill. The Com missioners were the Lord Chancellor, Marquis of Clan ricarde, and Earl of Minto. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. APRIL 28, MIL_ MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Messengers from the Commons brought up several public and private Bills. THE GOVERNMENT SCHEME OF EDUCATION. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented petitions rota the counties of Hampshire and Worcestershire in favour of the Government scheme of edueation ; and petitions from Wellington, Bristol, Stafford, and Essex, against it. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented some petitions from Salop and other places against the Government scheme of education. SUNDAY TRADING. Lord MONTEAGLE presented petitions from Christ church and another place in Surrey, praying that the Bill for the prevention of Sunday trading might be passed into law. Lord WHARNCLIFFE considered that an effectual system of inspection was most desirable, in order to pre vent the recurrence of such accidents as had recently occurred in connexion with the working of mines. A conversation ensued in which the Bishop of DUR 11AX and Lord CAMPBELL took part,_and the petition was ordered to lie on the table. ACCIDENTS IN COLLERIES. The NOBLE EARL also presented a petition from York shire, in which the petitioners deplored the recent accident that had occurred in the Barnsley collieries, and praying for the adoption of some measures to prevent a recurrence of similar accidents. Earl STANLEY presented a petition from Queen's Ifounty against the poor law for Ireland. Also, a petition from Sir R. Bateson and the inhabitants of Moira, praying that relief be not extended to the able-bodied. Also, from the bishop and clergy of Meath to the same ef fect ; also from the clergy of the diocese of El phin and Kilmore, complaining of the way in which the clergy were rated to the poor. He hoped that her Majesty's Government would look into this measure, and see whether it was not possible to afford a system of relief to the clergy of a more favour. able nature than the present. Lord LUCAN thought that by the effect of this mea sure the landowner would be called upon to pay double rates, and the result would be that the farmer who paid 1001. a year rent would have to pay the landlord's rate, and also a rate of equal amount paid by the clergyman. Lord CAMPBELL made some remarks, the purport of which did not reach the gallery. The Earl of WICKLOW—It appeared that the mis take on this question arose from a complication of the situation of the !andlord and tenant. The tenant could deduct from his rent the money he paid the minister; so far as that went it was simple enough, the clergyman having been misled as well as the House of Commons on this subject. . FEES OF CLERKS IN THE ROLLS' COURT (IRELAND). _ _ Lord BEAUMONT presented a petition from the clerks of the Rolls Court in Ireland, which stated that the petitioners were employed some for thirty years, and none under seven years, in the Chancery Court, and they conceived that from the third clause of the Bill to be read that evening on the subject that the mortgage, and other fees of the court, on which they depended, would be done away with, they prayed the consideration of the House. The mution was ordered to be laid on the table. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from the So ciety for the Abrogation of Ecclesiastical Courts, pray ing that the jurisdiction of such courts in civil affairs might be done away with. HARBOURS, DOCKS, AND PIERS' CLAUSES BILL. The report on this Bill was received. The Customs Duties Bill, and the Portland Harbour of Refuge and Breakwater Bill, and the Insolvent Debtors' Act Amendment Bill, were severally read a third time and passed. Lord PORTMAN gave notice, that during next week he would ask a question of the Secretary of the Colonies respecting the distribution of the fund collected for the relief of the sufferers by fire at St. John's, New foundland. ENCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR, who was very imper fectly heard, then proposed the second reading of this Bill, and Froceeded to explain its provisions. The pro portion of landed property in Ireland, which was en cumbered, was very great. Many estates were en cumbered to their full value, and a great many to a very large extent. This state of things produced the greatest evils in that country, and the object of the present Bill was to enable the proprietors to sell their estates so as to clear off these encumbrances. By the law, aseet present stood, great difficukies and expenses accompanied any sale of landed property that took place, and the effect of this measure would be to enable these sales to be effected without those enormous preliminary expenses, which were at present incurred before the Court of Chancery. The Marquis of WESTMEATH would not oppose the Bill. The Earl of WICKLOW was very much pleased that such a measure was introduced, and thought it would tend very much to the improvement of Ireland. He regretted that a measure of the kind had not been brought forward long ago. He confessed he was surprised it had been delayed so long, for bad it been sooner brought forward, the great deterioration which had lately taken place in property would have been pre vented. The 7th clause, however, appeared to militate against the Bill itself, but he hoped the measure would have the effect of freeing property from its encumbrances and thus enable landlords to discharge efficiently those duties which were incumbent upon them. Lord ASHBURTON said that as the Bill had given satisfaction to the Noble Lords, who were connected with Ireland, he thought its provisions would have the effect of improving the condition of that country. Lord MONTEAGLE said that the evil against which this Bill was directed was one which continued from generation to generation, and the remedy hitherto re sorted to in the Courts of Chancery had been so ex pansive as to aggravate rather than diminish the evil. The introduction of such a measure as the present would be followed by a depreciation of the value of the land, in- consequence of the quantity of it which would be thrown into the market. He hoped, however, that in the sale of estates under this Bill the land would be sold in smaller parcels than it generally was. If there was anything calculated more than another to benefit and improve Ireland it was the establishment of a smaller race of proprietors. They must all feel that a greater benefit could not be given to the landed proprietors of Ireland generally than a simplification of their regis tration, which this Bill would have a tendency to effect. After a few words from the LORD CHANCELLOR, which did not reach the gallery, The Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. Several other Bills were forwarded a stage. Their Lords then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. April 27. NAVY ENLISTMENT BILL. Mr. WARD said that he would not oppose the in troduction of the Bill ; he could not take upon himself the responsibility of such a measure. It was a large and a difficult subject, and the course proposed would interfere with large private interests and commercial enterprise. He wished as much as any one to see some measure better calculated for the service than the present law, still they ought not to do anything without the fullest consideration. At the present stage of the Bill he would not say further. Leave was then given to introdnce the Bill. DECIMAL CURRENCY. Dr. BOWRING then rose to move, that the adoption of a 'decimal system of coinage currency and account would be a great public convenience. 'That, in order to give effect to this object, an humble address be presented to her Majesty, requesting that she wid be graciously pleased to authorise the issue of coins representing the value of two shillings, being the tenth of a pound ster ling, and twopence and two-fifths, being the hun dredth part of a pouud sterling, such coins to be called Queens and Vietorias, or any other names which to her Majesty may seem best. The Hon. Member said that this country was almost the only one which had not introduced the decimal system into practice. It exited I..rgely over Europe, and pre vailed over the whole continent of America. It. his opi nion it was advisable that the pound sterling should be divided into 1,000 par's, and with the assistance of two new coins, he would be able to make the change without at all interfering with the other pieces at present in use. He proposed, therefore, in the gold coins, to retain the overeign and the half-sovereign ; in silver, he would retain the crown, the half-crown, the shilling, and the sixpence. He would then make the farthing to repre sent the thousandth part, the halfpenny to represent the five-hundredth part, and the penny the 250th part. As the system now held, the sixpence represents the fortieth part, the shilling the twentieth part, and he would, therefore, require the assistance of a coin that would represent the tenth part, and this he would make of the value of two shillings, and call it after the name of the Queen, in order to distinguish it and note the time when the change was made. This would be approaching to the system of decimes, and he accordingly required pieces to represent the tenth and the hundredth part of a pound. Some doubt had been expressed respecting the inconve nience for using so small a silver coin as that which was required for the latter purpose; but it should be recol lected that it was only about equal to the Spanish rial, and would pass like the Austrian florin—indeed, be no more than the Saxon penny, which was in use till the time of Edward 111. That coin was of the weight of twenty grains during the time of the Saxons, during the time of Edward the Con fessor, and up to the Conquest, its weight was 22i grains. In the time of Edward I. it was 22 grains, and so remained until it fell in the time of Edward 111. to 20 grains. The new coin which he proposed would weigh 18 grains, so that no inconve nience would be felt for its size, end he believed that, both the coins, especially the Victoria, would be very useful in the exchange with the continent. In most of the continental countries—in France, in Lombardy, in Austria and Germany, Tuscany and the Roman States, the decimal system had been adopted ; and it had not only been adopted with the greatest suc cess, but it had drawn the strongest possible feeling in its favour. This plan of decimals was in operation in Switzerland, throughout the Zollverein, from the Baltic to Kamskatcka, and from the Caspian and the Euxine to the White Sea. It was the system adopted in the great Chinese Empire. The Greeks, the Danes, the Portu guese, the United States of America, and the nations of Central America, all bad embraced it. Nay, the Turks and Persians had seen its utility, and incorporated it in their currency. Such was the extent of the system which he wished to see introduced here, and he would now sit down by moving the resolutions which he had just read. Mr. HUME supported the motion. For the last 22 years the subject had been before the country, and it was now high time that this decimal system should be adopted. It would be the means of greatly facilitating busmess, and if it were adopted, those who now kept five clerks, would be saved the labour of one. No great time could elapse till this change was made. He hoped the Government, instead of throwing difficulties in the way of the proposition, would give it every facility in their power. In conclusion, he had great pleasure in seconding the motion of his Hon. Friend. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that there was no doubt that a decimal system of currency had a great many recommendations in its favour, at the same time there was hardly anything in the world on which the passions of the people were more interested, or more prejudiced, than on the subject of the old coins and old constitutions of the country ; and it was therefore necessary that whatever was done, should be done gradually.—(Hear, hear.) He was not prepared to go the whole length of the Hon. Member for Mon trose. The first step was very easy, namely, to strike two shilling pieces, but the difficulty would be expe rienced when they came to the penny pieces. It might be advisable that two shilling pieces should be struck. and he was prepared to agree that they should, and if the people did not agree to take them up, why, then , there was no great harm done. But, consideringe, thc, g confusion which would follow an immediate chang e , h e would feel it his duty to move the previou s questi )e ' Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN congrat u l ate d his Hon. Fril for Mon trose rose e the be t l a e u m se be h r is f f b r r ieu ß d otlhtoennounn.h Memberpartia success. He said that there was an objection among the the e n l o ope t , on f . e Gentleman the wasp protec tionists to a sympathy decimal warpagthl ay s d y w s t it e to m h oht the currency.earthefeelings li e th x e pr f e a s c s t. his H and his prejudices in favo ur of immemorialu usage. Now he would be glad to have the corn-laws restored, f or t h e feelings of the people w ere i n their favour, as was also the argument of immemorial usage.—( glad something to hearu p on th Hear, hear.) H e s w h o e u i l i d b ) sa e y ont e ju his subject, as t h at country, aster of the Mint (R. S. of which he was a grace and ornament, had long since banished the decimal system from their comm e r ce . Mr. SHEIL sa id that w hen he was i n I re l an d, h e happened to dire c t his atte ntion to the subject, and he expressed a wish that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would consider how far it was possible to intro duce the princ . I fe o simple arithmetic in the case of copper, and he (the chancellor ,of the Exchequer) wrote him au answer which coritained the very same views which he heel just then expressed. Ile then communicated sith Mr. Trevyllan and Mr. P e nnington, who stated several reasons wh a decimal sstem could not satisfac torily be s - y carried out. y The great difficulty arose when the y caw to copper ; as tar as silver was concerned the case was easy enough. He had no objection that a two shilling piece should be struck called a Royal. After a few words from Mr. BROWNE, Sir G. CLERK said that the Government ouglieont to take care that they did nut create great ° fusion. The two-shilling piece would be like the half- Crown, and ignorant people might be misled. Consider able confusion was created by the introduction of three• penny pieces, by reason of their similarity to fourpeeni pieces. Dr. BOWRING said that he accepted the Prop " 3:- tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. lie hal a cons munication from.. Lord Ashburton, who expressed hie: self very much in favour of a decimal system. Be weal(' withdraw his motion.—(Hear, hear.) RAILWAY PIERS AND HARBOURS (IRELANI)) BILL. This Bill was postponed till Friday text. GREECE. • of Lord J. MANNERS, in rising to call the attenti, °n hut the House to the present condition of Greece, said t '; he was aware that the question was rather alien to t. tastes of the House. The greatest hopes were enter; mined that Greece would, at no distant day, a ssume high place among the nations of the earth. Her o , and arduous struggles to throw off her yoke, OA her 6m of her sons, the fertility of the soil, all were pregd: nant with promise that these hopes would be re:ll i/ t o In 1832, when the King of Bav a ria ac c epted the thro n e of Gr ee ce f o r hi s y ounger son , h e en t er ed into a sar lation with France, England, a n d Russia that G ree l should receive.a free constitution, and those guaranle67 a loan of 800,0001., the interest of which was to be re c i paid by quarterly instalments ; but eleven Year s ha w . passed, and he grieved to say that neither of these stiP d lations were fulfilled. The constituted authorities joine_ with others in committing the most wanton o strag : in fact he hoped to make such a case as would jesti f Y English House of Commons to pass a vote expressing a strong opinion on the conduct which had been vot e , towards that romantic and classical land. Th e Gentleman read a number of extracts to show the 01111",,_ ties practised by the constituted authorities. On e of the petitions presented to the king was from Messalia% which stated that fifty inhabitants of that distri ct we r nt dragged from their homes without any excuse, entljlic to the most fearful tortures; some suspended by ti teeth, others burned, and others whipped; another r,,,,ea tion stated that brigandism was fostered by the emP " tee , of the Government, to serve their own private pure o--_, and that even the necessary troops for the protectionu; the people were removed. Praetorian bands, for he c ° call them nothing else, were kept up, Con The to the spirit and even the letter of the constitutio n • out, financial part of the arrangement was not carr ied and they had therefore a clear right to raise their vol.ts The Minister of Finance in the year 1846 admitted through the dishonesty of the public servants he„,, e . unable to obtain any knowledge whatsoever of the "'the cial state of the country. In the budget presented ward, Chamber the debt to England was not even put f or f ro m r as much so as to call for a strong remonstrance Ibeue; Lord Aberdeen. Recently a commission had appointed in Greece to investigate six chttrgiel, which had been made aga inst the M int u s e ts of Finance for falsification of the ace- e a and the averages which regulated the import dutie i s i ted ' corn. On the 10th of March that Committee presehidt, a long and elaborate report to the Chamber, la they found the Minister guilty of the charges i" ll3 e to him, and a majority of the Chamber had S jn H i e s, fused to agree to the report of the Committee- t e sti s a state of things were corroborated by t ha t mony of persons of the highest authority t coal ( ' almost impossible to believe that Gre ece Ile be in such a miserable and disastrous condition.rs_ ~f did not wish to allude at any length to the con :r ot policy pursued by the French Government in the trots of Greece-he did not consider that the in n _ 00 exercised by that Government was eithe.ri _ e „ great or so injurious as had been very . ported. That some influence was exercised by .e," over that country was evident from the statements "" Colletti himself.ote d + An HON. MEMBER moved that the House be CO o„.000 when there not being 40 Members present, the I:: adjourned till to-morrow (this day), Twelve o'cl" e RAILWAY SHARE MARK.- LIVERPOOL, APRIL 27. genera _lllno meat in the Share Market to-day; the prices of LondcLl!,o. &roam ExcHANGx.-We are glad to notice an imP r n . North-Western, Midland, Leeds Extension, North l_t!ur.'; Union, and othrs have rallied, and are . quoted at t prices. There is also a much enlarged . _mquiryfor inleasti. lines of railway stock, and the maPset, closed with i t * Nottingham, Boston, and Eastern Junction, 2 3s - d. Notti 235. 9d. dis.-Birmingham and Oxford, 7 3 % p.-Derbyshj r : firmness, aad for the most part a fair aemand. The saw' &c., dis.-East Lancashire, New, 1% dis.-Ditto, Ise (scrip), ifi dis.-East Lincolnshire, 1% p.-Great Northere/ 1 1 4 dis.-Leeds and Thirsk, 5 1 4 dis.-Liverpool, Crosby , to"' Southport, p.-London and North-Westerm, 1704"; Ditto, Quarters, New, 9 5 / 8 p.-London and South -ti l u at i e do E n x ), t vg ens p io ._ nsl ia N nehe p s . t - er D a i n t d to Fii`"s (late (scrip), 14 dis.-Manchester and Leeds, Fifths, 4 Ec D oa te 1 3 sn l g anchester, Sheffield, arid Lincolnshire' Q at a n ,S " tha u t lters , 3 1 1 4 2 ; 4 1 e . st d 8 i h l s l . a_ i New, l p.-Newcastle - a - nd Berwick, rie vr ' 1/4 I rish 214 dis.-Midland Stock, 114 3 4 ' Ditto, 40/. Shares, North StatiOrdshire, I p.-North Union (A), 209--S Ditto, cut ino Central, 7 p.-Shrewsbury and Birmingham (A)' °Lath and bonus, par-Ditto (13), Bs. 9d. dis. ex. - 13--s° yarit Eastern, Newcastle,stern,No.2 Preference,,par-Ditto, N,ol/2 p.. 4,T_hiprdasr,i:s• ;u 3 d d i ydiosns, Con stituted, 3 dis. MANCHESTER, Aran. 27. STOCK EXCHANGE.-The sales are-13irken head, East Lancashire (late B. and P.), shire, and Cheshire Junction, 1% -Eastern Counties, la e i t (scrip), 5-16-Fleetwood, Preston, and West Riding ; 1 :: $1, Lion, -Huddersfield and Manchester Railway ~d a dop , A-Ditto, Thirds, i s -Leeds and Thirsk, c-ciii" North' Brighton, and. South. Coast, 50th -London an matlock , Western, Quarters (A), 51/2-Manchester, Bustoniz_.vitto, and 11..idland, %-Itancliester and Leeds, Fifthfh 3 l 4 lo , Otto 32/. Shares (late Extension), 1 4 1 p i gt "North West Riding Union), 1-16 p.-Midland, Consols, 113 e Staffordshire, A-North-Western, 214-Shropshir 365.--South-Eastern and Dover, 36 c. New, IN-13iitto,, LEEDS, Aran, 27. No tti.r STOCK EXCHANGE.-The sales are-Ambergai., n ham, and Boston, 283. 6d. dis.-East Lancashire, 2Elisr;nd Ditto, New, 1% dis.-Ditto, New Scrip, U . dis* - 1 Tr : West Yorkshire, 1 1 4 dis.-East Lincolnsinre, 1 p. Great Northern, lA n. dis.-Leeds and Bradford, 4 7 1 7 ,. -Leeds and Dewsbury, Extensions, Scrip eeds (gferreen/,_ 6d. p. s -Leeds, Wakefield, rsk and s% Midla -Ditto, nd , 1. 1 4 diiid-Southlo Coesti and Thi, Pretoe, oat North-Western, 171%-London, Brighton, an coon, 16s. dia, Fifteenths, 2s. p.-Malton and Driffield Jea d, Preference, -Manchester and Leeds, 32/. Shares (late Midland. p North par-Ditto, West Riding Union, ls. 1 , !, 4 p.-Newcastle and Berwick, New, 345. 6 rdshire, 14 British, Extension ,Union(scrip, .-North Staff( ) itt Nord -ay.- dis.-Northern Counties 2% dis.--- 445. n. dis.-York and Newcastle, Preference, 2% P. NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, Arum 27. lie STOCK EXCHANGE.-The sales are-tireat Northern , . 1 Dock and Railway, 166 3 / 4 -North Brit ° dis.-Hartlepool F,xtensions), .Extension, p.-West Riding Union, %p. HULL, APRIL 27. STOCK EXCHANGE. -The sales are-North British, P L. tension (scrip), s s. 6 d. p. - Ditto , Thirds , 465.-Blackbeallt, Clitheroe. &c., 10 s. p. - North - Western, 4 8s. 6d. dis.--Wes. Riding Union, 3s. 6d. p. cash. EDINBURGH, APRIL 26. STocic EXCHANGE.-The sales are -Aberdeen 26/. 1 ,55. ,1 Airdrie and Bathgate, 18s.-Arbroath an d 'Forfar, „ 155.-Ditto, Halves, 15/.-Ayr and Galloway, donian, u 25/. 10s.-Ditto, New, 1/. 17s. 6d.-Caldonian Di Ditto, New, mbartonshire, 2!. 2s. 6d.-Clydesdale Junction, 371. , 11 ;, 6 -Deeside, ul 3/. 5 5. - Dutiblane Doune, and Callender, 1 . 'i 301.-Ditto, 6d.-Dundee and Arbroath, 42/. 103.-Ditto. New, ' N a o ; New, 19/. 55.-Eastern Counties, 16L-Ditto, L td No. 2, 30/.-Dundee and Perth, 3,a.-":1, a Ditto, Extension, 4/. 10s. -E as t o f Fif e, 2/ . 16 5 . -Edinburgh thgate, 71. ls.-Edi n b urg h and Glasgow, 711. di a v. Ditto, llalves, 181. 17 s . 6d ex 10s. ex div.-Edi n b urg h, Leith, and Granton, 19/. 105• 41, Ditto, Preference, 201:55.-Edinburgh and Northern, 1,„. dive-Ditto, Quarters , 17 10s.-Ditto, N ew , 31. 45.-Ditto, Newport, 71.-Ditto , New, 21. 10s.-Edinburgh and Perth U. 195,-Glasgow Ayrshire, 581.-Ditto, New Stock, 36 /. 55.-Ditto .t: Qa ters, 151. 155.-Ditto, Halves, 6/. 135.-Glasgow, and Carlisle, Si. 55.-Glasgow and Garnkirk, gow General Terminus, 12/. 55.-Glasgow and Gretief„ma 16/. 10s.-Ditto, New, 8/. 155.-Glasgow, Kilmarnock, tie Ardrossan, 51.-Great North of Scotland, 2/. and Berwick, 25/. 10s.-North British, 31/. 55. ex Ditto, Ditto, Halves, 14/. 15s.- Ditto, Thirds, 21. 9s. We - Ditto, Quarters, 3/. 3so, Quarters, 12 (scrip), 19s--- Grao 4 Fifths, GI. 155.-Scottish Central, 25/. 55".-Scottish_irog 1 1 C 1 3 n o t . e l n i 3 e o l s s s . Junction, 1/. 3s. 6d.-Scottish Midland, 201. sa. Ditto, l a v n i d s h l a w a x n e f a n e w r , m d 106. p, r ect Bombay and Madras, 35.-East ' Indian, so u North of India, 35.-Great Southern of Madras, 2 3 . -- Nellore, and Arcot, ls. 9d. .-Ditto, GLASGOW, APRIL 26. yr 388 ' STOCK Preference, errkaennadenedAlN7i Midland, Ist t s2 ir L el EXCHANGE. -The sales are-Caledonian, lisil'abrea, 6d.-East Indian, 2s. 9d.-Edinburgh and Glek‘ s a ,l'_..Ditt ° ' 18% -Edinburgh and Perth (New Co.), 410. A w - vi . , " Halves, 13s. 6d.-Glasgow, Kilmarnosk, end a Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, 5/.-Manchesteer t a b Caw ampton, 18s.-N or th British, Thirds, 57a. 6 ( 1 . -- " jc°- tral, 251. ----- . On the 2d ult., at lifoerullti,RthreHtfe of CaPta in B ‘ ll ' ; d Ben gal 111.0 _ m o n y lh of e a 22 so d n inst., in Clement's lane. of O lsaa t c he M 2 o 3 s d es i , n E st ; .i,noSussex.-place, Ilegent'B-Pgri4 thfea ' lls:dll; Tiny, 0 O an the e e a 2 ,8 : lottothh still-born. inst. ni s i t si - . t , b. at Eastb o u r n the Hon. °l rf * 11. Holroden Arriphlett f Bra '- ntridge, Sussex, Of a son. 1, ni Dom' On the 24th iust in p • B• r raiDgua—P Watertield, Esq., ~ Paradise - street , 1 ye of 0. On the 24th i ' o a son. • -- --nst at S ft Yorkshire, the WI . carcro , lady On 25th • the lust. in Abbey-road , Regent's-park, the of Wilmot Buxton, ' Es of ___________...—•--'-. q., a daughter. a_terrace, of a.osrotile wife of Thoginar:::::q., of MARBLED. On the 27th inst., at St. Alphege, Greenw ich, by thWe lioter K J. K. G o .dney, chaplain of Greenwi Jute Wilson, Hospital,Henry s" of the Inner Temple, E sq ., barrister - at -law, to Foster, only daughter of the late Captain John Film ore, () n the 26th inst., at St. Mary's, Islington, Ralp_h o f Esq., of Newcastle-on-Tyne, to Mrs. Margaret Walton, the same place. DIED. °i On the 22d inst., at Shibden Hall, near Halifax , C 31 1! George Mackay Sutherland, of Aberarder, Inverness -sou -7 Norßr. On the itain 23d inst., in Park-road, Regent's-park, J. S. Ellio tt Esq., aged 61. On the 24th inst., in Cloudesley-square, Colonel G. B. Bel l o Bengal Native Infantry, aged 61. I,fd On the 25th inst., at Bath, Arthur Henry, th e only of Colonel Maclean, 18th Dragoons. Lon4ou: Printed Kra Published by 311111.D0 YOUNG. of 314 ',..., 11i t Strand, Printer, at The Bun Office, N 0.112, Strand,in tue.rro7 4 7 0 of the Savoy. in the County of 24.1341e5e5, Vi r ecineg aliTt A 23. 1 A L