The Sun. — London, England, 1857-08-21 00:00:00

TEE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, AUGUST 2l, 1857 and Tarbes. Yet, by the warrant of Oct., 1854, this dis tinguished soldier, who had retired when he became a full colonel, was passed over by no fewe a r r th y g an 53 other son after officers, many of whom had join ed the army the close of the French war. There remained on . the same list a great number of ot her officers who a g amed their promotion for distinguished g a llantry. Befo this warrant came into play n obo d y could pass over the head of a lieutenant-colonel b ut a Q u een's aide-de-camp ; and, relying on this rule, ma n y pay. He had brought t his o fficers had gone upon half , s ubject under the notice of the house in the month of Jane, when he obtained an assu ✓c that it would rec eive the attention of the noble lord dat the heads t the War Department. Sinoe then, however, he regtted to say that as many as 25 men had been promoted over the head of the senior colonel on this list. No greater pay was given to a colonel than to a lieatenant-colonel ; and a brevet might easily have been issued by which these officers would have been spar the mortification of seeing young men who were subalterns when they themselves were lieutenant-colonels preferred over them merely because they had been in command of regiments for two years and nine months. Be therefore trusted that the noble lord at the head of the Government, who, he was sure, was always disposed to reward the services of the officers of the army in a fitting manner, would take steps in the course of the en suirg recess to remedy so grievous a hardship. Sir F. SMITH congratulated the noble lord at the bead of the Government on the introduction of the present mea sure. No sounder arrangement could be made than to embody a portion of the militia. He believed that the re cruiting of the regular army would, at the same time, be carried on with great success. During the late war 40,000 men were enlisted in the regiments of the line, and we then had as many as 800 different recruiting de tachments. When the mutiny broke out in India we had only 26 such detachments, but since that time the num ber had been rapidly increased, and now amounted to between 300 and 400. Within the last fortnight we had obtained upwards of 1,000 recruits, although the cir cumstances were unfavourable for procuring them. When the harvest was completed we should no doubt get a great many more, under the auspices of the distinguished officer who presided over our recruiting operations. The Government had despatched to India an augmentation of the troops of the line, and also of the cavalry. They were likewise, for the first time—it being an exception to the ordinary rule—sending out a force of the Royal Artillery. There were 3,000 Sappers and Miners attached to vu, army, and he was quite certain that 1,000 might be s-pared for India. He might be told that the East In dia Company had a sufficient number of engineers in luc'ia, but ho believed that that was not the fact. He bat, reason to know that there was a great demand for eug inners in India. Of course, if Delhi bad fallen—and be hoped it had—there would not be so great a necessity for their services ; but every military man, and no man better than the noble viscount at the head of the Govern ment, knew that there were but four ways by which Delhi could be redused—first by capitulation, which was highly improbable, and which would be very impolitic for us to accept, be the terms what they might ; next, by investing it, and reducing the mutineers by famine, which would be a long operation, and one that would not keep up the prestige of the British army in India ; thirdly, by assault, and fourthly by escalade. The last paused plan—that of escalade—would not be very easy for us to accomplish, owing to the present position of our army in India. It would be seen, then, that the mast advisable means of radacing Delhi e was that of making a breach, with a view to its capture. Of course it was very well known that the whole of the Sappers and Miners belonging to the East India Company's sei vice had deserted with the rest of the rebels, and were now in Delhi. Every military man knew that the sorties at Delhi had been conducted with considerable ell ill. One of the flanks had been attacked, and another &Irk turned, and if that flank had not bean composed of British soldiers the men belonging to it would have been doubled up and utterly destroyed . He should not be at all surprised if the mutineers now in Delhi made ano ther Saragossa. Gen. Barnard had not, so far as he knew, a single soldier who was able to do the work of a sapper and miner. He therefore hoped that her Majesty's G ivernment would'send out a large body of men tho rn tighly qualified to do that kind of work. Perhaps he night be told that a European sapper could not work in tl.a hot climate of India ; but he did not believe any. tt ing of the kind. If we sent out European gunners to work in the field, surely our sappers could perform the less severe work of carrying on sapping and mining ope rations at night. Their work was invariably done under cover. Moreover, he had been assured. on the high autho rity of a gentleman who had charge of the railway works in India, that the whole of the Indian railways could be coestructed entirely by European labour. He therefore begged most respectfully to suggest to her Majesty's Go vernment the great desirableness of sending out to India a portion of our Sappers and Miners, who, he was satis fied, would well discharge their duty. Sir D. E. EVANS concurred in the suggestion of the hon, and gallant gentleman as to the sending out of Sap pers and Miners to India. Even if Delhi were taken be fore the Sappers and Miners arrived there, they might be most usefully employed in the construction of a series of fortified positions. Europeans might not be able to work so rapidly in India as the natives of India, but their work would be more solid and finished than that done by natives. They were now on the subject of the militia, which was intimately connected with the whole of the Indian question, because the militia was to be embodied for the very purpose of meeting the state of things which the mutiny in India had occasioned. He was very much ac :onished to find that the noble lord at the head of the War Department had stated that the number of m iitiameu proposed to be called out for the present was 10,000. That number appeared to him to be totally and absurdly load quate. He recollected complaints were made by naval offcers almost on the eve of the declara tion of war against Russia of the insufficient number of sa lore in the Royal navy, but not a sailor was added to it, and the Government attempted to justify their supine ness by giving this very wise reason—that the increase of (sir navy at that time might affect the negotiations then being carried on wi'h the Emperor of Russia. He really thought that the addition of merely 2,000 men to our navy was not much wiser conduct than that of the Go vernment immediately previous to the war with Russia. He begged to suggest to the Government the great want of small steamers to carry on our operations against the mutineers. We had several such vessels, if not rotting, at least lying idle, which might be turned to coiel lent account if they were sent to take part in the opera thine in India. By their means our men could penetrate tar into the interior of India, and a moral as well as a physical effect would thereby be produced upon the peo ple of India. Ile hoped that the Government would em ploy some of our large ships of war in conveying troops to India. The French set us the example of thus em ploying ships of war duriag the campaign in the Crimea. Tire French navy did not entertain that prejudice which it was said our naval officers entertained against the em. pi .yment of war vessels as transports during a time of w: r. Even if a little irregularity should be occasioned in the discipline of our navy by employing our war ships as transports, be thought that any objection which our rival officers might have of that nature ought to yield to a desire to promote the public good in a time of enter gc He hoped Government woald reconsider this subject, and, if possible, employ the great and poa offal steamers belonging to her Majesty for service in India. E ery exertion ought to be made on this occasion. The conflicts which had taken place before Delhi and in other places were, he found, of a vigorous description, and it woe gratifying to see the heroic valour displsyed by our soldiers of every class in the face of vastly superior DlM berd. On this point he would remind the noble lord that a year or two ago her Majesty determined to grant what was styled the Victoria Cross for acts of special yalour. In fut ure th at rewar d was t o b e g i ven on t h e fie 'd by the general commanding, and this was a most de drable mode of distribution. He should recommend for the consideration of the noble lord whether authority m - eta not be given to Sir Colin Campbell to confer this V.ctoria Cross as a reward for the gallant acts of our In di..n troops lately recorded. He thought also that on such an emergency as this the Government should consider the pr ,priety of removing the ground of complaint which was m:.de more than once by the Duke of Wellington in hisde op aches—namely, that he had not the power of giving the au attest promotion. It would be well to give the corn maederdo-chief in India the power not only to fill up V* ,ancien, but to grant promotion, subject, of course, to the confirmation of the Sovereign aed the Government. lit, saw by the public journals that the force in the Persian Gulf had been ordered back to India. The its cement was, be hoped, correct. General Jacob, who was in command of that force, was a man of great expe rience, of great scientific attainments, and of undoubted abi.ity ; and no man in the Indian army stood higher in the service. Independently, therefore, of the great advantage which would be gained from his presence in Scinde, where he was so well known, it was to be hoped that his services would be made available in boom command. The mention cf this officer's name, by the by, reminded him of the statement that these mutin ;Zbu' taken th e I n di an G overnmen t by s urp r i s e. There most, however, have been some infatuation on the P oV e o o f f t t h h e Government on this point, for the whole a G e ne al had been laid bare seven years ago in General Jeot a very striking character published by Charles 14;1 4 4 The statements also made by Sir ject ought eurel and other :o ffi cers on the same sub tak e steps to a,4:lllsave induced the Government to question of caste, eeoletangers pointed out. Up -in the bad so m uc h t o d o i n t hi s mat ter, he saw it rep orted la of the for ces ntl newspapers that the com ord er of a character quite:Zt:lad lately issued an that Presidency— naroely, that recruits only th should in future be raised for the Bombay ariay" 4 , I state that right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. y. H 5 hoped that the tbin was not the case, or otherwise it would strong proof to his mind of the unfitness of t u a a d o a f t' rd a alluded to for the high command held by him. isTo c t e t t l ' i he °m id be more obvious than the inconsistency , fl n g d the imprudence of attempting to engraft upon th e wo ,. ba: army a system of caste which had led apparently to awls fatal results in the army of Bengal. On ano tho r point connected with India he must express his satisfaction with the statement of the noble lord the other evening, that the Government intended 'to Rive pecuniary aid for the establishment of the tele graph between Suez and Aden. It was true that this would only apply to some few hundred miles of the route to India, b u t no d ou bt it would greatly fa r e itta t te and a cce l era t e th e commun i ca ti on , and he trusted, te I, therefore, the Government would see that the utotertaking was carried out with despatch. With re gat it to what .had been said on a former occasion as to the conveyance of troops through Egyp t, he confessed tilt; the statement of th e no bl e lord resp ecting the diffi • ies by no means convinced him of the insP raotica bility of adopting this route. I n hi s opinion, a portion of'the troops might with great advantage be sent through Egypt, and as the necessity for sending reinforcements would undoubtedly continue he hoped the Government would reconsider this subject. Other poin is connected with the state of affairs in India had been to ached in the discussions which had taken place, but to th see he would not refer. He had neither the ability nor the disposition to enter into the question of policy raised the other even ing by the right hon. gentleman opposite ; but there were one or two matters relating to Indian policy which it would not be well not to lose sight of. It appeared that some of the native princes, even among those re siding close upon the scene of conflict, had remained perfectly loyal in the midst of the disturba.ncea which had taken place. Among them were Holkar, Scindiab, and others ; and he thought it would be well without wait ing for ulterior events, that those princes would be told that their conduct would be rewarded hereafter by an extension of their territory or in some other way. At all events, some declaration of the intention of the Government to evince their satisfation at and their grati tude for the course pursued by those princes ought not to be delayed, because it was of the utmost importance to us that they should remain steady to our alliance. Then, again, he ventured to think the Government ought to make arrangements to finish this matter cer tainly in the second campaign. By next November our troops ought to march with triumph through every part of the disturbed districts. As to the reinforce ments he hoped these would not be despatched by drlblets, but that every exertion would ba made, without reference to money, to place the largest possible amount of naval and military force at the disposal ,of the Indian Government, He had expressed his satisfaction the other day that a large reinforcement of a rtillery—consisting, he believed of 17 troops—was to be sent out. It appeared, however, that those troops were weak in number, and would only muster 134 gunners each. Now, the strength of the troops of artillery in the Crimea was eventually 204 men. In the present case no margin was left for losses by sickness or other causes, and he should not be surprised if it were shortly found necessary to form tee() of these troops into one. It was most essential for the Government to bear in mind that from various causes heavy losses must be looked for in the force despatched to India, and adequate provision must be made to supply these losses. Sir W. F. WILLIAMS quite concurred in the re marks by the hon. and gallant member for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) upon the necessity of sending out Sappers and Miners to India. When they remembered the number of strong places which were now in the hands of the rebels, hon. gentlemen might well imagine the efforts which must be made before they could be dislodged by troops of this description. In his opinion, it would be necessary to send out 1,000 of this admirable corps with their officers as soon as possible. He concurred also in the remarks of the hon. and gallant general (Sir De Lacy Evan-) as to the strength of the troops and companies of artillery which were to be despatched. Tnese troops were about to em bark for a country the climate of which in some districts was of a most deadly character, and therefore not only ought they to leave England in as efficient a state as possible, but every calculation should be made for the casualties which might be anticipated in their ranks. He did not concur in the hope expressed by the gallant general, that if Delhi were taken, not one stone should be left upon another. (Hear, hear.) It contained arsenals and works which had been prepared with great care and at great expense ; it contained, also, a large amount of stores and ammunition, and a more se• rious mistake had not been made of late years than leaving such a place, full of such materiel, in the charge of black troops. (Hear, hear.) Instead of Delhi being destroyed, and not one stone being left upon another, he hoped that it might be preserved with very great c re, and that, if we once got possession of it again we should never allow an enemy to be seen within its walls. He agreed in all that bad been said with respect to the want of fortified places in India. He had been in all the presidencies of that country, and he had seen, so to speak, the nakedness of the land—station after station without a single stronghold. The consequence was that when we were attacked all went over like a pack of cards. He hoped that Parliament would turn their attention to this su: jest and that we should never again permit so great a calamity—he might say disgrace—to fall upon the nation. He was perfectly sure that her Majesty's Government would never at the commencement of this session have reduced so many of the regular troops of Great Britain bad it not been for the pnesSura from without. He was satisfied, therefore, that it was not their fault. He remembered how the noble lord the mem ber for London and the right hon. gentleman the mem ber for the University of Oxford vied with each other— bade as it were against each other—with regard to those reductions, and be was persuaded that had the Govern ment attempted at that time to retain those troops they would have been defeated. Let them hope that what had teken place would be a warning to them—(hear, from the oppesitioe)—and he trusted that hon. gentlemen opposite who said " hear, hear," would assist them with their votes when these matters came under consideration in future. (An hon. member on the opposition side.— "We have never done otherwise.") With regard to the Sappers and Miners going to India, he remembered that when Aldershot was being discussed in that house he stated that he was in favour of Aldershot (Al condition. inter alia, that the troops of the line should be instructed in a certain amount of sapping and mining, in making gabions, and is other things that might be useful when they went to India. Ile only hoped that they had been so instructed and that the authorities at Aldershot had taken those. steps. If they had not, they might probably hear opinions expressed when they came to discuss these subjects next year which would not be agreeable. Slr H. VERNEY was satisfied that whatever exer tions her Mdesty's Government might think fit to make to meat the present crisis in India, to render our troops victorious, and to restore that government and do- minion which we had so long enjoyed there, would meet with the cordial co-operation of the house and of the country. (Hear.) He could not entirely cJncur with _ . . his gallant triead who had last spoken io saying that the Government were not to blame for cutting down our establishments, because he did not believe that they would listen to representations made on either side of the house unless they conceived that those representa tions were founded on justice and truth, and ho con tended that it was upon their responsibility and that of no one else that the reductions 'had taken place. He thought, however, that they should now inquire, not so much who 'was to blame for the frightful calamity that had taken place, as what measures could be adopted to remedy the present state of things and as soon as pos sible to give protection to our countrymen in India. He desired to see, for example, not only large steamers employed upon the large rivers, but small steamers sent op all the small rivers where our stations mostly were established. Such steamers going up, well armed and well manned, would afford the greatest possible protection to those stations. He knew well the frightful calamities to which our countrymen were ex po-ed, and he trusted, therefore, that there would be notaingl,ke vacillation or want of strengtb, determination, or vigour exhibited on the part of the Government or of the authorities in India. (Hear, kear ) He was quite sure that when the details of this Indian warfare should be told we should find that there had been performed acts of heroic valour and of wonderful fortitude on the part both of soldiers and civilians which would fill us with admiration and with national pride. (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he trusted that the gallant army which was about to proceed to India would be provided with adequate medical assistance and with every comfort and necessary that could be required. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. RAMSDEN, in answer to the various ques tions which had been addressed to him, said, that the principle on which the Government had acted with re spect to ceiling out the militia was that the number which they proposed to embody should bear some pro portion to the number of troops sent from this country to serve in India. At present, according to the number sent out, the Government considered that it wend be sufficient to embody 10,000 militia to do the garrison duty which the troops that had gone to India would otherwise have done. If it should afterwards be found necessary to despatch a larger number of troops to India, then it would be requisite to draw more largely on the militia ; but in the meantime 10,000 would be enough for the purpose. He had received no intimation with respect to the insufficiency of the information which had been given to the surgeons of the militia to guide them in the conduct of the recruiting service ; but if any of those gentlemen thought it desirable that the directions should be more p.ecise they would receive every inf r mation upon application at the War-office. It was im possible at present to state precisely which militia regi ments it was intended to embody. He was fully aware that it must be a matter of great inconvenience to mi litia officers to be kept in doubt longer than was neces sary, and a 3 soon therefore as it would be possible to let them know, consistently with the public interests, they should be informed. In selecting the regiments Govern ment would be regulated by the reports which they received as to the ability of the various regiments to do the most efficient service immediately on being called out. Admiral WA LCO TT suggested that Admiral Seymour should receive orders to despatch all the small steamers and gunboats which he had at Hongkong to India. They would be of immense use in India, while as t) the Chinese, we could take them in hand at any time, and thrash them at our leisure. (" Hear," and a laugh.) He took this opportunity of expressing the high opinion be entertained of the gallantry and judgment which hal been exhibited by Admiral Seymour and the officers, both of the navy and marines, under his command, who had been engaged in the operations in the Chinese waters. Lord PALMERSTON—My leen, friend the Under- Secretary of State for War has explained generally the points of detail that have been referred to in the course of this debate. I can only repeat what he has said, that in fixing the number of the militia which we think it ex pedient to embody we by no means bind ourselves not to call out more if circumstances should render it expe dient to do so. However, recruiting has gone cn with great success in spite of the harvest, and we entertain no dTatet that wh en th e operat i ons i nc id ent to t hi s per i o d of the yea r are completed the number enroll id will very rapidly i ncrease ,ranks and we shall be able to place in the a nu m b er of men equal to that which has been sent to India. 14Iy hen. and gallant friend the member gestion which was ?me paedaet t d U.-night a vLry natural sug• for Westminster troops should be sent tOnl previous evening, that these s hip 4, which could easily b l e din in screw line aadapted to that purpose, -of-battle which could be navigated by with na ll a e r r r e a w n , g e a m n d e w t o m u a l y d carry a large number of men s peech. In the first instance such convenience and de appear to be very advantageous, bat I would request the house to bear in mind ot her cons iderations in regard o the amount of our military force at home whith have been forcibly dwelt upcn. We were reminded that w e had been compelled to despatch to distant ata.tiona a , large portion of our military force for which we asked and which Parliament granted, for the general imposes of the country in time of peace, and it was said, "By so doing you have greatly weakened your defensive means at home, and foreign countries may take advantage of your apparent weakness, and either hold language which you ought' not to bear or do things to which you ou g ht not to submit." The answer which I gave to that was that the people of this country would nut endure con duct of that sort, and that if an emergency should re quire it men would be raised rapidly and upon the sudden. That very considerati ,, ri, however, shows how inexpedient it would be to send to the other end of the world the greater portion of our our naval force— (hear, hear)—because, although these steam line-of battle ships are, it is true, lying in ordinary and of no immediate use, yet if any of these events should occur we should want suddenly to put to sea a large fleet, and how could we do that if the ships which we should re cpiire were doing duty as transports in the Indian Seas ? Therefore I think that prudence shows that the despatch of these ships to the East would have been a very inex pedient course—in fact, it would have been falling into the error which the great orator of Greece imputed to the Persians. He said— ! " When you strike a blow at one part of them they put their hand to that part and leave exposed every other, which may be struck in turn. Do not, you. Athenians, follow so unwise and foolish an example." I think we should have fallen into an error of the same kind if we had sent to India the fleet which circumstances cccurring in Eur *pa might, at short notice, render neces sary for our defence at home. (Bear.) Tee suggestion of the hon. and gallant officer as to the sending of troops across Egypt is well worthy of consideration. On a pre. vious occasion I stated the objection to such a proceed. ing. These objections it may be possible to overcome, especially if you can make arrangements beforehand. If a small force were required speedily at a particular sta tion arrangements might be made for sending it across from Alexandria to Suez. With regard to tae general question, I think that the house ought to take a larger view than hon. members have generally been disposed to adopt. We have been reproached for precipitately re ducing our army and navy upon the return of peace. Some have said that in doing so we yielded to pressure from particular members of this house, while others have attributed it to a want of foresight on our part. The course which we have adopted is the only one which any government acting under a representative system such as ours will ever be able to pursue. Different forms of Go vernment. have their different advantages. Undoubtedly a despotic Government is the best for providing in time of peace the means and preparations for war, because such a Government, being subject to no control but its own will, and possessing the foresight which you must assume all governors of countries to have, keep up in time of peace a larger force than is actually required for de fence, and when war unfortunately occurs it is at once ready to meet the pressure which is thereby occasioned. On the other hand, when war does break out then comes the advantage of representative institutions, because then it is that the whole nation rallying round the Go vernment gives to it a support and force which no des potic Government can by any means or by any possi bility possess. In time of peace, however, a representa tive Government is comparatively weak. It is not that if we were to press this house we might not persuade it to vote men in Committee of Supply. We might induce it to give us a larger peace establishment both of army and navy, but your votes of supply are of no use what ever unless they are accompanied by votes in Ways and Means. That is the limit of your peace establishment. What happens when peace arrives I What took place last year 1 Daring the war the country was ready to submit to any reasonable and necessary sacrifice to carry it to a successful issue. It bore great burdens and %Joule have endured greater still if it bad been satisfied that they were necessary for the vindication of the national honour and the assertion of national interests. Nations, however, have no foresight, or at least very little. Indi viduals may have, but multitudes have none. The con sequence was that the moment peace was male every body from one end of the country to the other cried out for the remission of the war income -tax. That was a cry which this house was neither disposed nor able to resist, the coheequence was that the Government found it abso lutely necessary to bow to the national will, and the war inc •me-tax was given up. That reduced our income, and we were necessarily compelled to proportion our peacs establishment to the income which Parliament, as the organ of the country, chose to give us. That was the real reason of the reduction of our military and naval establishments to an amount lower than cycle have been expedient at the present moment. (Fleur.) Still, with all the inconvenience which these changes of opinion and of system may produce, there are in herent in a representative assembly se many ad vantages that these should be regarded only as defects whiob the country must at ail times be ready to repair by prompt and speedy measures • and I run quite sure that those exertions will n ver be wanting when the occasion may require them. The present case, however, is not one of so much difficulty as was presented a; the breaking out of the Russian war, because when that war began all the addition to our military was to be made at the expense of the country. The expense of any addi tions made now falls, not upon the revenues of tee em pire, but upon those of theaEast India Company. There ._ tore, no additional expenditure is requ;red on the part of the nation, and all that we have to do is, as troops are from time to time withdrawn for action abroad, to keep up our establishments at the numbers voted by the Gum mittee of Supply. That I think we shall be able to do ; but this house has already unanimously vottd an address to the Crown, assuring hue Majesty that nothing shall be wanting on our part to enable her to carry on opera tions in India with vigour and success ; and if between this and the period at which Parliament usually meets it should be necessary to ask for further assistance, law quite sure that no members of this house would grudge tire attendance which might be necessary to afford tut assistance to the Government. (Cheers.) My hon. and gallant friend thinks that a large naval force ought to be sent to India, as a flotilla which shou!d operate in the rivers. The house, must, however, recollect what I am sure my hon. and gallant friend from his experience knows very well, that the Indus and the Ganges, al though they figure well upon a map, and are really very large streams, are not generally of such a depth as to be navigable by ships which we could send from home. Their navigation is impeded by sandbanks, shoals, rocks, and shallows, and any ships which we could send from this country would be perfectly useless ex cept just at their mouths. My right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty has sent or is sending out such a flotilla as it possible to despatch from England, but it must be remembered that the East India Company have a navy of their own. All their ships were employed in the Persian expedition, but the greater portion of them must by this time have returned to India, and therefore their crews can be placed in their shallow boats or rafts, which alone are useful for the navigation of the rivers of India, and by which any operations in those rivers can best be performed. With respect to Persia, the engagements embodied in the re cent treaty have not yet been fulfilled. Herat has not yet been evacuated. On the contrary, there are reports which affirm that additional troops have been sent by Persia to Herat. That has been denied by the Persian Ambassador at Paris ; but still the whole of the engage ments of the treaty have not been carried into effect ; great doubts are entertained as to the good faith of the Persian Government ; and therefore, until the stipula tions of the treaty have been complied with, it is per fectly clear that the British force cannot and will not be withdrawn. That force is under the command of Gene ral Jacob, a most distinguished general officer, and until that force has been withdrawn it will be necessary to have there an officer of the great military experience which General Jacob possesses. Well, then, I say we are thankful for the suggestions which have been made this evening, coming as they do from persons who are so well competent to make them, and I can assure those who have offered them and the house that they shall receive every attention from her Majesty's Government, who will take advantage of any of those suggestions that they may think likely to conduce to the efficiency of the pub lic service. But I entreat the house to believe that the attentions of her Majesty's Government shall be most carefully and anxiously directed day by day to these sad events. We feel not only how of are ;he detaili which reach us from time to time, but also the vast im portance of the conflict now going on. We hive no doubt, however, of our ultimate success, We are co-:fi dent that the strength and power of this country will be put forth to suppress this insurrection, let the causes of it be what they may, whether they be religious or political, or from whatever sourco they may have sprung. (Cheers.) I shall not enter into those causes now ; but I can assure the house that we feel the full importance of maintaining the Indian empire of this country, that no exertions towards that end shall he wanting on our part, and I have the most perfect confi dence that those exertions will be attended with complete success. (Cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI (who spoke in so unusually low a tone of voice as to render it a matter of difficulty to col lect the whole of his observations), was understood to say—l only wish our home defences ware at this mo• moment not inferior to what they were during the late war, for we had then our Artillery, our Marines, and our Channel fleet. But now our Artillery has gone to India, our Marines are in China, and out` Cis ennel fleet —(the remainder of the sentence was inaudible). We must remember, with respect to the observations of the gallant general as tc the transmission of troops by ships of war of the highest class, the, according tJ the raiparts we have, there are ships of that character quite sufficient to make an efficient defence of our own coun try, and to act in the manrer which the gallant general suggested, while we might at the same time have the great advantage of a Channel fleet. But I think everybody must admit that in an emergency of this kind, after all we have heard of scientific progre-at during the last few years, and of the application of cienca to the purposes of war, and alter ad we have heard of screw propellers and overland routes to India, it is extremely mortifying to find that we can not have recour-ie to any of those new sources of strength. (Hear.) I think that is very much to he re grated ; and although we may not be able to send 30 000 or 40,000 men over Egypt, yet there can be no doubt that 5,000 men, if they had been sent through Egypt, would have been a mast valuable addition to the force which we have in India, and, arriving there very shortly after the troops we had sent to Chi, a, there would have been a force of 10,000 men, which would have had a very considerable effect on the fortunes of the war. I am very glad to hear that this militia force is called into action to suyply the place of our regular gar risons. I think it is very much to be regretted that it has become prevalent of late to look on the militia merely as a means of recruiting the line. The highte , l charact-r of the militia, that they arts the constitutional defer dere of'our country, ought never to be lost sight of. Duikg the late war it was to be regretted that at no time was therq a militia regiment that was not pestered by a parcel of recruiting agents, and that the tone and charac ter of our militia regiments in the service was lessened and degraded. Al this might have been awe ided, and greater support given to the regular army if there had been a nearer relation between the militia regiments and the line. In the old revolutionary war there were certain relations between the militia regirnentsand the regiments of the line which acted reciproca'ly and most beneficially on each other. The regiments of the line were recruited from the militia, and the tone and character of the militia regiments were much higher during the r volntionary war than during the war with Russia. Complete militia regiments at that time were enlisted for active service, and I believe there was then a greater and more contiun one supply of men, although those arts of enlistment which were practised during the late war were not had recourse to. However, the militia is to be embodied, and that is a vexes wise and proper measure. I wish it had been on a greater scale, but at the same time it is to be em boeied for a great public purpose, and I have no doubt the result wilt be highly satisfactory. It is unnecessary for me to enter into any discu sion with regard to our position in India. The gallant general has spoken on that subject with authority and als with great courtesy in reference to some observatioes which I recently ad dressed to the II muas. No bins that has since occurred has at all modified the opinions to which I then give expression ; but I don't think it advisable or exoeuient to enter into any further discussioe on that subject. We have only one object before us, and that is, to far as the House of Commons is concerned, to let the government understand that we aro most anxious to forward all those measures which are calculated to bring the efforts row making to suppress this mutiny to a successful termina tioa. (Cheers) But in so doing we should remember the responsibility which devolves on us all freely to exeress our opinions if at any time we should think the Government are not acting in a manner tending to pro duce the results we so earnestly desire. I very mucli doubt shether the suggestion of the gallant general with respect to sending a steamboat to Cawnpore, armed as he stated, could be carried into effect. But there is no doubt that at this moment much depends on the fate of Cawnpore. I think it is a much more i portant ques tion than that of Dslhi. There is a railroad from Ale babad to Cawnpore to the extent of 60 wiles, and, at though the locomotives are liable to destruction from looal causes, it is still used as a tratnroad. There wilt be 60 or 70 miles more, over which the troops would have to march, and in a country where the population is to a great extent in insurrection ; but it may be assumed that in five or six days the force from Allahabad would arrive at Cawnpore, and that would he the signal for success. It appears to me that on the fate of Cawn pore much, if not everything depends. If we can main tain our post there until November, when the a vanes of the army takes place, we may indulge hopes of success. But in so doing it is of the utmost importance that we should in November make an advance, both by the Indus and through Bengal, which will demonstrate to the whole peninsula of India that cur force is compre hensive and irresistible. I trust the pass of her Majesty's Ministers will justify these expectations. I am net entirely satisfied, however, as to the sources from which their support is to ba gathered. The other night inquiry was made as to what might be expected from the Cape. We have a very considerable force at the Cape, and the policy of the Government, which is to keep a 1 tr i o mili tary force at that point, is one calculated to exercise in fluence in emergencies similar to the present. But I have never heard from Her Majesty's Ministers whether we really are to expect any a,sistance or any contribu tion from the garrison of the Cape to this army which we art collecting in India. The hon, and gallant general the other night pressed on the house the expedie..cy of ending some regiments from the Cape, and the Secretary of the Colonies, who followed him, I think, said the Government had pointed out the imp rtanca of this policy to Sir Georgd Grey, the Governor of the Cape, and had left the matter to his discretion I repeat, I should like very much to know whether the Govern ment can tell us whether the Governor of the Cape is taking any steps in this emergency, and what proportion of the forces under his control he is prepared to contribute to our Indian army. There is an impression abroad that the Gevernor of the Cape is not inclined to see his forces diminished, and as the importance of the question um hardly be exaggerated I should be eel if her Majesty's Ministers could satisfy the house and the country upon that point. We may be told there is some danger of a Caffre war. Of course, if we are officially informed that there is such danger we must give great weight to the assertion, but from all the information which reaches me—and which is u nofficiel— I should say that there is ne dauger of a Ceffre war. Probably at this moment there is less expectation of such a war than there has been for many years past, and I am therefore desirous of knowirig why so many regiments aes retained at the Cape a; a crisis like the present. I ask this question because I remember that the Governor of the Cape —a gen lernan of great eneigy, who has shown on many occasions that he possesses go Miles which en title him to cmuraaoal—.vas for some tittle Governor of the settlement of New Zeeland, and that during the period of his gevernorship he maintained the largest tut- LtAry force that could be assembled in that. colony. At one time there were at least six regiments in New Zea land, au] the presperity of the colony aed the great in crease of revenue were perpetually pressed upon our attention ; but this proep-rity turned out to be mainly, if not entirely, attibuteble to the expenditure of the large military force. I now find the same Governor at the Cape of Good Hope, with a still greater military foioa. I know that the e.penditure of a regiut,ot at. the Cape is, calculated on the lowest estimate, 30,000/. a year j and I can awlerstand that a gentleman who has the reputation of great energy, and who has a large military force under his command, would feel—if it were left to his discretion very much indisposed to decrease that force. I stoeld, therefore, be glad to learn whether her alajesty's Government—from gene ref information, and upon their respon s ibility—h avegiven more definite directions for the despatee of troops to La dle from the Cape than a mere appeal to the discretion of the Governor. In touching on this subject I cannot help referring to a point upon which I should have been glad to hear the opinions of hon. gentlemen of the military profession. I allude to the term of military service of regiments in our colonies. Some of the regiments sent to our colonies are kept there a much longer time than is just or politic, or for the interests of the coutery. I re member that at the beginning of the session, an boo. friend of mine asked the noble lord whether it was the intention of Government to recall the 45th regiment from the Cape of Good Hope, but the noble lord replied that he had nothing to do with the disposition of her Majesty's troops, and that the question was one for the H -rse Guards to determine. Tuis is an occasion on which that subject may be referred to, and I must say that the petition of the 45th—a regiment of very high character—ought not to be unnoticed in such a discus.- skirl as the present. The usual term of service for an in fantry regiment in such a colony as the Cape is, I under stand, 10 years, but tie 46th has been at the Cape for 15 years, and I believe there is no prospect of its relief. The consequences of such service, protracted beyond the in tentions of Government and of the country, are most serious and injurious ; and if a regiment in these circum stances fails under a governor who likes to be at the bead of an army and to exerci-everygreat it fineries and autho rity the prospect of re ief is so slight that unless its psi ton is brought under the notice of strati au assembly as this it is likely to remain without redress. Tne 45th regi ment, which went cut to the Cape in the expectation of remaining there 10 years, has already been on the station 15 years. The men have no quarters; they are scattered in detachments over South Africa, leading lives of con tinual hardship; yet they are Eoglishmen, officered by English gentlemen, and there is no prospect held out to them of any redress. At the commencement of ibis veer, in May, I be ieve, there was a sort sof unoffietal announce ment that they were about to be relieved, and I am told that the scene which toait place between the officers and men—such of them, at least, at could be collected, for so scattered were the detachments that it would have required two months to assemble the entire regi ment—affected all those by whom it was witnessed. I should be very glad to hear that they were going to India t 3 besiege Delhi or to relieve Cawnpore. After undergoing years of toilsome duty they had no opportu nity of gaining promotion in the Crimea, or of attaining that distinction which all Englishmen covet. I believe the position of this gallant regiment is tinily heartrend ing, and I trust the Government will con-tiler the eircuin cancel to which I hate cattle f attention. The hon. and gallant General who spoke in defence of ih- Gove.rnmeut, and who vin licatee his friends in a manner which I should be very sorry, were I in their position,lo experi ence, has accounts ! fur the reduction of the rniatary and naval forces of the county t n grounds which I confess, somewhat het. , nished me. I understood from hen that the Government were fully sensib!e that the milita r y forces of tl.e country ouelat to have been maintained in much greater strength, but that the Hou-e of Commons would n ,,t, support this necessary establishments, and that, notwithstanding the conviction of the Government that reductions we:* kipolitic and itijutioas, yet, pr e f er . ring place and power to the policy which they thought right, they yielded their convictions to a Parliamentary necessity. No er, lam not a supporter of her Majesty's Government, but if I had the honour of sitting behind the noble for I, I should do him aud his colleagues the justice of saying that they were never influenced by any such considerations. I am sure that the pre sent Ministry, or any other Ministry, would upon so grave a subject be influenced eerily by their opinions as to what was necessary for the advantage and welfare of the erueere. I deny that the members of Parliament who have been referred to ever exercised a y " pres sure frotn without," or were not p rfectly justified in the course they adapted. When we were erea s g e a in a most expensive and arduous strugele, during which no cne can preteed that the H .use of C ommons did no t g;ve the Government every support they required , the ttie , n- bers who s a t b e hind the Government and the Opposition vied in placing at the disposal of ller Majesty' s Ma s ao ters all the means which were necessary fur bringing the struegle to a succeetful issue. That of jset was attained. .• I have bef o r e expresse d an opinion, whi h I now repeat, that the settlement of Pans —although there might be objections to points of detail —was such as to give us the exaecta . ion of aI mg and perroanei t pawl. NV bat as, then, the duty of the Heuse tiVc purse. Sternly, when ,n is that of guardians of p . • e Cemmsns ? Our highest when war had cea-ed, and wben we were t , •l I and be -1 eved tbat there was an expec tation of an enduring peace, our first duty was to enforce economy—and the most rigid economy —upon the Government, and to di• miuish the procure of taxation upon the people as much as pessitl The only return we could make to the pee ple for time a J:tl ittid patriotism with which they came for ward in t-me emergency was by sho ein g that, when Vie creis was past, we were mindful of our dut y as steward s of the public purse ; that we were ti nt debauched by the habit which prev a il s i n P ar liameet during a time of tear of easily voting public money ; that we were prepared to enforce upon the Government a system of reduction and economy. Tbis was the first duty of Parliament ; and it was secured, to respond to our wishes. I say, se was the first duty of Government if tat y be lieved that peace therefore, far as the House of Commons wag concerned, that we acted most wisely in the course we took ; because whet ex cites in emergencies a prompt and paeeienaterespeeee to the appeals of the Government on the part of the cem munity, who have been described by the noble lord ac so short-ighted, but the conviction that advantage will not be taken of their generosity, and that when the desired result has bee, accomplished their interests will be con sulted, and that they will leo allowed to husband their resources which, if an emergency should again arise, cm atone enable them to afford similar assistance to the Go vernment ? It is the econot i v, the retrenchment, and the reductions of taxation effected after a war which en . - able the community, when an emergency again arises, to come promptly and powerfully to the aid of the Go vernment. I conceive, therefore, that when, as merebers of the House of .0 ,morons, we impress upon the Govern meat the neces-ity of reductions, we merely do our duty; and not only do we do our duty to our con-tituente, who have the first claim upon our consideration, but gene• rally and abstractedly we adept a politic course, beceuse we enrich the community, and enable them, when a ne cessity again arises, to steeply the resources which may be required. There is some distinction between the posi tion of a mere member of Parliament and that of a Mi nister of the Crown. A member of Parliament deems it his duty on the termination of a great struggle, and after the commencement of peace, to enforce reduction and retrenchment. Something more was to be expected from the Minist,r of the Crown. He, has sources of informa tion not open to us, and he has a policy in his mind of which we are not the sharers. He has a responsibility on him ten thousand times greater than all' the members of Perdament put together ; and if the Minister honey( a it to be not wise or expedient to effect reduction or re trenchment, the Minister under those circumstances is bound to come forward, and if he has the conviction it is not only his duty, but, in my opinion, it would be on his part a duty which he could successfully fulfil, to im press that conviction on Parliament. If Parliament pressed the Government for reductions which they be lieved would be it jurioun to the country it would be in the power of a Mmist r—and I am sure it would be in the power of the noble lord, addressing the house in a warning and monitory tone, without making any reve lations inconvenient to the public service—to make such an impression on Parliament as to induce members to relax in the efforts they were making and in tbe opinion they were urging. I do not =ay that her I.llajeoy's Ministers had a consciousness of the danger of the course they were teking. I commenced by expressing my perfect belief that they had not, though as to some p Ants of degree and time I might have some difference of opinion ; but in the main the Ministers thought the time had come when they thought economy ought 0 b • en forced and reduction practised. But did the crcum stances of the empire justify the Ministers in having that cpinion ? I express my conviction that they did not. I think the Ministers ought to have been more aware of tue condition of the Indian empire than they were ; or if they were realty aware of the condition of empire, I do not think the Ministers were just . fied in the c mrse they pursued aed recommended to Parliament. It is easy to say that it is of no use now to inquire what is the cause of the convulsion which has taken place. Then we are told that the events were such as no one could guard against ; but if we maintain that argu ment we put onreelves in a false position, for if these things could happen without any human being an ticipating them, what use is there for any G o vernmeht I If without the slightest expectation twenty-four hours beforehand an insurrection can take place extending over a country nearly as large as Europe, and with a population of 180,000,000 of sous—if such a thing could happen without those who are responsible for the administration of that country having the slightest previous knowledge or sus• ptcion t.f it--I want to know of what use or value is the Administration under circumstances of that kind. Every day soinethieg oozes out which shows that the Admini stration of India ought to have been, if not absolutely prepared for all that has occurred, most suspicious and prescient of what has happened. You cannot justify now, when you are more acquainted with the circum stances—you cannot, with your knowledge of the in• subordination of the Bengal army, justify that Admini stration in permitting a post like Delhi, the areeoal of the Empire, to be garrisoned solely by naive troops, when they must have bad information of the mystical symbols of combination and conspiracy circulating in that very city at the commencement of this year. Tneee are questions not very convenient new to urge, but when attacks are made on members of Parliament becau-e they performed their duty, after the conclusion of the war, in enforcing economy and retrenchment on Mini wero and when it is said that the lash of our present position is due to members of Parliament doing their duty, it is right for us in our defence to make these re marks, and to impress on the country other considera tions besides those which were submitted by the hon. arid gallant General. I repeat, we did our duty in enforcing ecoeolny on the Government, though it is very much to be regretted, considering what has happened, that we were successful in our policy. I doubt not thae the Government of this ceuutry acted fairy and candidly by the house in consenting to that great reduction of taxation, and t • those general measures of econonty which were adopted. They did be lieve, no doubt, that they had provided sufficiently for all the exigeecies of the country, but the Ministers cannot relieve teernselves from this grave responsibility which devolves on them, for having, in c)nsequeece of their fwal ignorance of the condition of a great portion of her 11 , j,..hty' s empire, and of their total negligence and inadvertence, sanctioned the policy, which Perlin , meat commenced, of reduction, at a time when it i-quite , clear that it they had been in possession of that infor ; (nation which I maintain they ought to have been in p nsessi in 0 1 , must have appeared a most un wise policy, and which has proved most injurious to this country, Mr. V. SMITH—The present debate began by the hon. and gallant general and by another hon. member offering some useful suggestions on the question how the revolt iu India might be put an end to in a tone for which the Government could not be otherwise than grateful ; and the right hon. gentleman, when he began, assumed the same tone, and, as I understood, deprecated the discussion at the present time of the causes of the Indian mutinies. At the close of his speech, however, Inc right hon. gentleman forgot his opening warning, a el fell into that line of observations in which he had on , a former occasion indulged. The right hon. gentleman refereed to the speech of the hon. and gallant member for Caine, whom he represented as saying that the Go vernment, being perfectly aware of the great need of troupe, had cut down the force from fear of the House of 1 Commons. Now, I understood the hon, and gallant gen lil-man to say tio such thing ; bet, at all events, l am sure 1 the Government had no intention so to act. My Delete 1 friend has stated what I believe to be a perfectly ackuo w leaged constitutional doctrine, which the right hon, mem ber fir Buckinghamshire has himself adopted—nameiyn that, though it is the duty of the House of Commons to enforce economy on the Ministers, yet, if the Minis lyre are aware that the state of affairs in Europe or in any of her Majesty's dominions makes it fat el to ditui nigh the military forces, they are bound to defy—if I may use the ex,aressien —even the House of Commons, and to force on the house those considerations which appear to them important. The Ministers, however, were aware of no such considerations. They proposed Ia pace establishment, which they are still dispo s ed t o th nk was a sufficient peace establishment, and which happened to be above the peace establishment existing before the commeecement of the war. But the right hon. gentleman says that the Government ought to have been aware of this affair in In-lire. Now, if the right hon, gentleman enters is to that argument, and states • I the reasons why he thinks se, I hope I shall be prepared to meet him; but on the present ores-ion he had only adverted to one circumstance in connexion with that point, and that is that Delhi, being a large arsenal, had been left unprotected by Europsan troop. Now, if the Government in 1857 could have been aware of any danger existing in that circumstance, every Govern. ment for the last 20 or 30 years ought to have been equally cognizant of it ; but they never were, and I deny that there existed any particular circurnstancss attracting the attention of Government to the un protect,.d state of Delhi. It was aleays believed throughout India that Delhi was an unsafe and unhealthy station for European troops, and Sir C. Napier, whose opinions on Indian affeirs were touch referred to, desired a largo arsenal there, to be pi...tooted by 12 native regiopentn aed never proposed to awe European troops at that station, 'Phis may be a question of policy, but neiteer the present nor preced ing Governments should be blamed 4th reference to this paint. Tee right host. gentleman [as defeaded himself from a supp ‘sed attack for having eeforeed economy. Tue G,rernmsnt do not make any charge against him upon that 14 r nin4. Toey think it is the duty of a mew her of the House of C mimons to c nisider matters, and when we are turd that t diminish e d the f orces too touch 1 r e e c f a e n r fi i m ir G e i p i l ve y 'i t rl o nl me h en the e statement of my noble friend, woo pointed out that, though the Hou-e might tell the Go vernment that it would vote a larger number of troops, yet the House was not ready to tel him that it Would vote larger ways and means to maintain them. Hi n. members surely cannot have forgotten the war 91. The cmetry called out to the Government to get rid of that war 9.1., and I think that that cry was perfectly far at the tim, after the termination of all the calamities which bail occurred, and there being no circurnstanc es in Europe or in any of Her Majesty's possessions which indicated any (ati,e of alarm rendering it neces sary t r keep up that tax. If, therelo-e, any minister hat come down to the House under these circum , tence• and stated that he would n -t take off the war 91 , cc tcra' House 'u'p st' i .o , f e C uac r r i Isi'ne arsenal a m ap o l l r ( i e l fa , Dawneidlihnilhi: was a o uv u le l l di) been ° h t a e v eett scouted o e b u n y t a t Ed e cu by s yo e l ) d et I 'he o n f putting it forward merely for the purpose of keeping up large establishtnente. It would (mile been said this was a plain IMP(A , I' , II on the pert of the Government, tern) outbreak there could possibly be anticipated. The tight hon, gentleman referred to a statement made by cry noble I/1-nd the member for the city of Linden, who i xereised hie surprise—a: which Idu not v-or:der — that, cou , i , icring ad the inventions of modern science, we should haven) better Ulf ans of despatching treys to ledia than Ly sailing vesse!e. The asairn e tine, however, is not spite accurate, ler great care was taken ie the coesidera ion ( f this question, and a number of troops were sent out iu screw steamers, the ethers being sent in c!ipoers and sailing; vessels. But the right 11(.nouratio gentleman forgets that there were many advantages in eeudine out the troops by good clippers. They were riot ugly more econo , nical—which I admit is not itself a eufficient consideration—but regard being bad to the season of the year tho passage is as likely to be made by tnem in 70 days as by the screw steamers them-elvee. every consideration .wr.s g.ven to the matter with the view of , xpediting the transport of troops to India, and considering the season of the year and other circumstan ces tlee clippers were thought to be rather better than bteamers. With regard to the question whether the troops ought to have been sent through Egypt the house must look at all the oireums.ttances. If we had bad steamers in the Red Sea to c niveY the troops from Suez to India, that would have been the most expeditious mode of transit, and we might have overcome the politi cal difficulties attendant upon the passage of troops through a foreign country. But we had no such steam ers ready, and if we bad communicated with the Indian Government, desiring that they should be sent, or if we bad sent them ourselves we should have lost as much time as in sending the troops by the usual route. There was another reason in the unhealthiness of the Red Sea at that season of the year, which rendered it undesirable to send troops by this route. We could not by any de gree of foresight have been provided with ships at Suez, nor, if we • had sent out screw steamers, would there have been a sufficient provision of coal at the usual coal ing stations, since the coal provided for those steamers which usually run would have been entirely insufficient f'r the large system of transport rendered necessary by the recent occurrences. There has, therefore, been no neglect of the modern inventions .of science, nor any of that du tress, ignorance, or prejudice which might be presumed. All that can be said is that, um:er the cir cumstances, we have not been able to deal with the mo dern inventions of science so amply as we might other wise have done. Then the right hon. gentleman says that troops ought to have been sent from India from the Cape. I can assure him that the Government test no time in sending the most positive instructions to Sir G. Grey at the Cape to forward two regiments imenediat.-dy to India. It has been left 'in Sir G. Grey's discretion to send more than two regiments, or not, but he is in• eructed to send as many more as be can spare. I do not think that more distinct instructions could have been sent to the Governor of the Cape. At the same time it happens by a curious coinci.lence that L Ord Elphiu stone, the Governor of Bombay, with an energy and dis cretion that cannot be too highly applauded, sent for two regiments from the Cape, au.l also despatched. vessels whereby they might be forwarded to Bombay without de lay. (liar.) Ido not think, therefore, that the Gov ernment eau. be justly charged with any want of energy and foresight in respect to the Cape. But the right hon. gentleman has thrown out a' charge and has led us by im plication to suppose that Governor Sir G. Grey is not likely to act on these instructions, or to send as many troops from the colony as he can spare. I have the honour of Governor Grey's acquaintance, and I do not believe there is any man more ready to act on his own responsi bility. Sir G. Grey is not only a man of judgment, but of undoubted nerve and high courage. He is not likely obe alarmed at the position of affairs in the colony, and the.o is no doubt that if he can spare more than two regiments he will send them to India. Governer Grey in all the offices he has filled has executed his duties to the satisfac tion of his superiors and the public. I happened to be attached to the Colonial-office when he was first appointed to a colonial government by my noble friend the member for the city of London. That appointment was given to him from a knowledge of the energy and skill he had dis played in his journeys in Western Australia. At that time Governor Grey was unknown to my noble friend (Lord J. Russell), but every Colonial Secretary-retained him in some colonial government until he was ap pointed Governor of the Cape of Good Hope, in as hich post he has acted with courage, spirit, and judgment. (Hear, hear.) My hon. and gallant triend the member for Westminster has referred to the native Princes of India, and he says that we ought to inaeiest our satis faction with their se; vices and fidelity by giving them an increase of territory. Well, that may come here after, 'but it is at present doubtful wherner it would be expedient to exhibit in that manner our acknowledgment of their conduct. Many of the waive princes have be haved with great gallantry, generosity, and friendship to the Government of India. The hon. and gallant gentleman has referred to Holkar. That . chief has, no doubt, maintained his alle g iance and behaved with sin cerity to tee Government of India, but it also happens that Holkar's troops have all turned against us; anti it would therefore, be rather premature to give him an in crease of territory. [Sir D. L. Eeralle—" These troops have been put upon him.l They are supposed to be under him, and in such a state of things it would be premature to give increased territory to any chiefs who have exhibited their goodwill in so unsupported a manner. Many of the suggestions of my hon. cud gallant friend will be valuable as objects of future policy. The hon. and galant gentle man the member for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) recommends us to send out sappers and miners. That suggestion, com ing from so experienced an authority, no doubt deserves, and will receive due attention. Tire right hon. gentleman has suggested that steps ought to be taken for the relief of Cawnpore. That is a question which it would be difficult to entertain here ; but I have no doubt that by this time Cawnpore is relieved. I regard the remarks of my hon. and g .11ant friend as suggestions rather than attacks upon her Majesty's Government ; but when my hon. and gallant friend says that he agrees with the right hon. gentleman the member for _Buckinghamshire in thinking that the Government ought to provide for a second and third cam paign (Sir D. L. EVANS—" A second- campaign"), I must 'state that the Government have provided a force which they consider sufficient; and which they are assured by all the authorities upon Indian subjects will be amply suffi cient to extieguish the flame of insurrection in Indie. We have sent out an officer of undoubted ability--Sir C. Camp bell— to take the command of the army in India. There is already in the command of that army Sir P. Grant, also a gentleman of undoubted ability, awl well acquainted with the Indian army., It would not be wise to predict the course which it tiny be necessary to pursue hereafter, The Government will deep itch a sufficient force to India, but before they send the large reieforcements which some persons think necessary it may appear that the distin guished officers to whom I have alluded may be of A d.fferent opinion. We shall be prepared to act on the suggestion of those officers who are roust competent to in form us, but I hope that the house and the country will feel assured that there has been no lack of consideration as to the amount of force necessary to put an end to tha re volt. An ample force has been scent out. for this pug-pose, and our reinforcements will arrive at the bast seas.in of the year. They will, I cannot doubt, display -_those military qualities which lead to success, and, although I would not hold out hopes that might be falsified by the event, I will assure the house that this question has not been treated lightly by Her Majesty's Government, but has been re garded by them as one of the most serious events that has ever occurred to this country. (hear, hear.) These difficulties will, however, be surmounted, for I am certain 'we shall be backed by the house in every endeavour to overcome there. (Cheers.) And when Tier Majesty's Government turn their minds to the reorganisation of the Indian army, and to the question whether it will not be their duty, by a largo addition to the European force in that country, to keep down the appearance of insurrection on the part of the native regiments, they will at the seine time consider by what means they can best secure and ad vance the happiness, comfort and wellbeing of the natives of India. (Cheers.) Mr. HENLEY said it would be out of place for him to offer an opinion on military affairs, but he felt bound to take some notice of t h e s p eec h o f the hon. and gallant member for Caine (Sir W. Williams). He did not know whether the hon. and gallant gentleman intended to make an attack upon his friends on the Ministerial beaches for providing insufficient means for putting do en this re volt, but he eel make au attack upon the House of Com mons for having put a pressure upon the Government and for having cut down the establishments too low, an 1 he, for one, protested agaiust any such conclusion. What had since taken place completely negatived such a con- elusion, unless, indeed, the hon, anti gallant gentleman (General Williams) was of (pinion that the Government ought to have foreseen the danger c f this outbreak in India. The Governmeat were now despatetaing between 20,000 and 30,000 men to the East, and yet they had not felt it neces sary to call out the militia—they hal'merely asked for the power to ca'l it out at some future period. Surely, when it had furnished the means in time of peace of sending out a force of 20,000 or 30,000 men to the other end of the globe, the House of Commons could not fairly be charged with having cut down the establishments of the country too fer. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. Smith) had confounded two things that were totally distinct,. When asked why a European force had not beeu stationed at Delhi, the right hon.. gentleman's answer wus, that that could not be done consistently with the remission of " the war ninepence." Now, whatever might have been the -in formation possessed by the Government as to the nee:ssit,y for garrisoning the seat of the ancient Mogul empire, it was plain that the war ninepence could have had no possible connexion with the matter, because they all knew, and the noble lord the Prime Minister had that very night assured them, that the cost of providing additional regiments for India fell exclusively upon the Indian treasury. (Hear, . heir.) He denied, then, that pressure had been put upon 0 the Government by any part of the House to compel them to reduce the military force of the country below the proper limits. Whether the Government might have hail reason to anticipate such an outbreak as had since occurred in the East was quite another question, into which he would not now enter. But whatever might be the require ments of India, that House ought nut t' be reproached with having forced the Government to cut down the mili tary strength of the kingdom to a point iucomp itible with the national safety and honour. (Hear, brae.) Indeed, the noble lord the First Minister hail him,el oz . ontrated the Flouee of Commons from the char=s which the le - n. and gallant gentleman had thought ht to bring against it. General WILLIAMS complained that what he had said ha I been misapPre' , ended by two right, hon. gentlemen who had addressed the House. He ha t made ue attack upon the House of Commons. He hail merely stated his opinion, as a member of that assembly, that the re luiitions which had been effected were unfortunate and precipitate. And he had added, so great was the pressure from without, that if the Government had thought it necessary to have a larger body of troops, they would not, from the , pirit of certain' parties inthe house, have been able to obtain them. Sir D. L. EVANS explained that what he hal said in regard to flolker was, that that chesf had peen personally faithful to us, and that he had proved his fidelity b y send ing his treasure from In lore, hie own'capital, to our fort at Mhow. lie was quite aware, however, that Hulkat's regiments bead mutinied. Mr. DISRAELI also explained that the President of the Board of-Control ha-I attributed to him, iu regaid to a third campaign, the very reverse of what he had really stated. What he bat said was that they should take care to finish their operations in the second campaign, so as to preclude the necessity of a third. Mr. SPOONER auitnadverte t on the absence froni the speeches of the First Minister and the President of the Beard of Control of any recognition of our entire depend ence, fur the success of our measures to quell the revolt in India, upon the blessing of Divine Providene. The bill was then read a third time and pesied. _ DULWICH COLLEGE BILL. Mr. LOCKE presented a pertiion from the parishes of St. Botolph, St. Saviour, St. George'e, SJuth wark, and Camberwell, praying that their right to elect two govcr uors each to take pert in the nrinagement of Dulwich Col lege should be continued to them. elr. BAINES, iu moving th , rt. the Lords' arnrulmonts to this bill be now ,read, writ' he should move that the house should agree to all the Lords' amendment& to the bill, with the exception of that which redhead the number of elected governors by the four parithes interested, from eight to four. At the proper time he wool t Move that the Commons insist upon the number of g ui.idiaus, front the parishes in question, should be eight. When the bill first came to the Commons there vas a scheme for a governing body by which there was to be one elected guardian from each of the parishes in question with It. nominated gua r . discs. The bill was referred to a select committee, a 1 ,1 i t was recommended that the numbers of elected guardians should be two from each of the parishes, and that there should be 16 nominated gu9rdiatis ; and in this state the bill was sent to the House of Lords. Their lordship, how Well,f four h o ever, altered the governing bod y to numbertheold o elected guardians, and 11 nominated guardians. did not object to the numbers of the non-elected bele' , re duced, but he thought the parishes had a, rig ht o g eardiani each, as it was proved that such as the desire of the original founder of the college, This was the reason why he should ask the house, at the proper time, to insist upon their amendment in reference to the eight elected members, and to disagree with the Lords' amendment on the subject. The amendment of the Lords in respect to the nomi nated guardians was then agreed to. Mr. BAINES then moved that the Commons insist upon their amendment in respect to the right of the four parishes named to elect two guardians each, and to dis agree with the Lords' amendment on the subject. Mr. KNIGHT moved the t.djourotnent of the debate, and said that theflllows of thecollege had misappropriated the property entrusted to their charge, and this compact which hail now been entered into was one of the worst that could possibly be devised. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY said the bill had been carefully consi dered by select committees of bith this hou.e and the House of Lords, and he did not think this was the time to discuss the merits of the bill. The only' question was, whether they would agree to an amendment of the House of Lords, whether there should be eight members in the governing bodies of the parishes instead of four, and he hoped the discussion would be confined to that point. The amendment was ultimately withdrawn, and Mr. Baines's motion agreed to. The several amendments wt=re then gone through, the house resolving to insist up o n cer t a i n o f th em, and not to insist upon others. A committee was then nominated to consist of Mr. Baines, Mr. Miller, Mr. Williams, and Mr. Cox, to con fer with the House of Lords on the subj-ct, and it was resolved that the committee meet forthwith. CROWDED DWELLINGS PREVENTION BILL. Mr. COWPER said he bad coins to the resolution to withdraw this bill, feeling that in the last week of a pro tracted session the opponents of the meaAure had a power commensurate more with their pertinacity than with their numbers. The opposition in the present instance had this peculiarity, that it came mainly from hon. members who represented thos, parts of the metropolis in which evasions of the law were most frequent, and in•which the greatest nudiber of lodgin4-laouses were found, to the injury of health awl the detriment of morality. Under these cir cumstances he begged to move that the order for going into committee upon the bill be discharged. Mr. AYRTON regretted that the right hon. gentleman had not done a graceful thing in a graceful manner, but had considered it necessary to make remarks as uncalled for as they were unfounded. The right hon. gentle oan • had no doubt wiLlidrawn the bill because he had disco ♦ered that it VVPF4 entirely erroneous from beginning to end, that it would not carry out his professed object, and that it was not in the least degree necessary. The hou. and learned gentleman concluded by stating that he intended to give a notice of motion which he believed.would go to the rent of the evil. The order was then discharged. FAIRS AND MARKETS (IRELAND). Mr. HERBERT obtained leave to 'introduce a bill, with a view t., it 4 being printed, for regulating Lira and mar kets in Ire,lan I. AUSTRALIAN POSTAL SERVICE. Mr. MACARTNEY moved for an address for copy of any contract entered into with the European and Colum bian Steam Co. or the European and Australian R o yal Mail Co., in pursuance of a tender bearing 'date the 11th June, 1856, and bigned by John Orr Ewing. for conveying the Australian mails from England to Melbourne via Southampton, Alexandria, and. Suez; returns setting forth the number of days occuoie.i in each voyage out and home, separating the portions of the route between South ampton and Alexandria from that between Suez and Melbourne ; also a list of penalties incurred by reason of non-arrival according to contract, and the. amount (if any) alrea iy • levied or deducted from the contractors' remune ration ; of the name, touthge, and horse-power of all vessels employed by virtue of the said contract in the A ustra , ian p•astal service; and copies of all communica tions between the Treasury, the directors of the European and Anstrali kir Royal Mail Company, and of the Royal Mail Steampacket Company, with the view of amalga mating said companies, to enable them •to continue the mail service to Australia and the West Indies as one com pany, and the terms proposed by the Government of the said united company for periormance'of the postal serdices now performed by those companies separately. 'lho hon. member was proceeding to state what he be lieved to have been a failure on the part of the precept contracting company to comply with the conditions of their contract, when he was informed that his motion was not opposed, and he thereupon resumed his seat after moving as above. Mr. WILSON said there was no objection to give the returns which were asked for, but he could assure the hon• member that although there had been one or two failures incidental to a new company, yet upon the whole the ser vice had hitherto been satisfactorily performe.l. The Government had exacted the penalties prescribed for any breach of the terms of the undertaking, and would con tinue strictly to enforce the contract. Mr. tONINGFIA.M. wished to know in what manner the public would be benefitel by the amalgamation of the two great steam companies which had united to carry out this contract. It was said that great favouritism bad been shown, anti he believed there was good ground for the statement. The companies had not done their work, and the system of penalties which was supposed to keep them in check was a mere fiction. Mr. WILSON said that the question of the amalgams tionof theitwo companies had not come before him officially but when it did it would be considered solely with a view to the public interest. The returns were agreed to. MILITARY EXECUTIONS IN INDIA. Mr. RIOIdAItDiON moved fora return of the number of mutinous soldiers belonging to the Indian army who had been blown from the cannon's mouth since the last revolt began, and the places and under whose orders these execu tions took place ; and asked whether such executions were in amordance with the rules of military discipline in In dia? The hon. gentleman was unable to find a seconder for his motion, and it was therefore not put, nor was any an swer given to the question with which he conclude , i. This r,sult was received with cheers from all parts of the house. The house then adjourned at half-past 10 o'clock. Country Markets. MANCHESTER--Aua. 20. With an average attendance this morning there was only a limited inquiry for wheat and flour, at an a iVAILIC9 of 2s per qr. for English, and 3,1 per 'Nibs on American, and is to 2s per sack on the latter since this day se'nnight. Oats and oatmeal woie both in request, at extreme rates. Beans and Indian corn unchanged. NEWARK-Au°. 19. We had a good supply of old wheat, which made 5s per qr over last week's prices. Little new wheat brought for ward. Wheat, white 65s to 70s, red 633 to 635; barley, malting 453 to 50s, grinding 35s to 365; oats, 24st. 36s to 38s, 22st, 323 to 345; beans, 4'B to 523 ; malt, 73s to 80s; peas, 462 to 48s ; taros, 54s to 583 per qr. New white wheat 67s to 703; new red, 64s to 665. LOITTH-AuG. 19. 4 Thera was a midultng supply of wheat, yet sufficient for the demand, an/ the little that changed hands was at prices ra' her over those of last week. In other kinds nothing doing. Wheat, 50s to 60s; extra, 65a; barley 42a to 445; oats 24s to 28s ; beans, 44a to 49a. BOSTON —At ra. 19. Prices :—Wheat, red, 62s Od to 66s Od; new, 79s to —s ; white, 60; t t to his Od, extra, 653. Barley, 40a 01 to 478 01. Ov,, 253 to 31s. Peas, 40 to 443 04 Beans, 470 Od to 50s Od per qr. GLASGOW—Aun. 19. There was more inquiry for the better sorts of wheat at previous rates. Flour met an improved sale at rather over previous rates for both sacks and barrels. Oats and oat meal steady. Barley unaltered. Beans and peas fully as dear. EDINBITRGH GRAIN.-AuG. 19. Wheat, on the top, le 0 I down, and on the average was Os Od up. Barley, 3s down on the top, anti is lid down on the average. Oats on the top is 04 up, and on the average id up. Beans on the top 2s Od down, and on the average le 6d up. AVERAGES PER IMPERIAL QUARTER. Wheat £2 3 6 4-12ths. Do. new. 0 0 0 0-12th. Barley Oats 1 11 10 0-12ths. Beans -12ths. Total Supply and Sales. Wheat 2367 qrs sold 1516 qrs Barley 267 qrs sold 146 qrs Oats I 085 qrs • sold 708 qrs Beans 147 yrs ' sold 49 qrs DERBY SHIT fiFIELD.—AUG. 18. A moderate supply of fat beasts to-day, which were in good request, and last week's prices fully maintained. The number of sheep and lawbs by no means large, and readily uisp.sed. of. A large supply of fat pigs, and hales heavy at a slight reduction. Fat calves about the average and in better request. The fohowing were the quotations :—Beef, 64d to 7d; mutton, 7(1 to 74t1 ; lamb, 8d to -4,1 ; veal, 61 tc 641 per lb. ; pigs; Ds Od to 10s 6 1 per score; rough fat, 5s 9 i to Os per 141 b.; hides, 44d to 6,d per lb ; calf-skins, 44d G.l 60 per 16. At a general meeting of the shareholders of the R'yal B ink of Prus4ia, held ut Berlin on Tuesday, it was pro• posed to rai:e the rate of di count from 5 to 54 per cent., 1 avoag the rate of interest on advances as before at 6 per cent. BIRTHS. OF A SON, Oa the 18th inst. , at Ribstone Hall, the wife of John Dent, Esq. On the 18th inst., at Clapbam-rise, Mrs. George Catter mole. • OF A .DAVOTITBR Wear House. near Exeter, L a dy On the 18th inst., aT NV - ea Duckworth On the 13th inst., at Br ig,hto , ,, the wife of J. G. Dodson, Eig., M.P. MAE, It I E On the 20th inst., at Watton Church, HertP, by the Rev. Sr, Henry atkentiel , i, B k rt., and the Rev. W. R. Freman tle, Rowland, third s on of Samuel G. Smith, Big., of S,icomb-3-p +rk, to Constance, second daughter of the late Lord Glanville Somerset. DIED On the 19th inst., at Blackh e ath Sarah Frances, wife of sir John Walshain, Bart., of Kuill Court, in the county of Hereford. • Ou the 19th i ns t ., W illiam Kershaw, Esq., of Waver trac-road, Liverpool, aged 67. On the 18th hat., at Bethnal Green, the Rev. John Em blem, aged 79. On the 17th inst. at Bedford, theßev.Richard Downes, vicar of &mien anti S'readey, Beds. On the 17th inst., at Setou Castle, East Lothian, Colonel George CatiA, of 13, Randolph-crescent, Edinburgh, late of the H.E.I.C. S. Oa the 17th ivat., at 23, Porchester-I efface, Bayswater, Rear-Adwir4l H. A. Eliot, aged 69, On the 16th inst.; M.rpret, wile of Mr. T. G. Smith, formerly of the Stock Exchange. O,i the 18th just, at Dulwich hill, Surrey, Wm. Stone, Esq., aged 65. . LONDON : Printed and Published by NIURDO YOUNG, of No, 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun °tile°, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the 3:•,v07, in the county of Middlesex, Friday, August 21, 1857. 11,1' ON WILL Po CONSE .rirIEJ from Elever gent g irery, Is. T HE RA( On the a ov, ecturPs ttri the Philos "Artificial open from ti mIITi influx t'al ITY ftrror'nz fel MEET NG on , 'on. on' 'knee:lair Many Int a Soninait'e alrord ng rel this fearful Tickets c li e'erved se 31 stOnll INDIA 11 11 tary 0 aura flees; on 6 rilees as ab rbROV A; Thomas B Thomson The at tent oir Ted by tl conn,xior Chief °Me 1 :1", e isQA Eo e e termedfate Performer at a single fa team leaves 1 4 0 'The Direct 6 ne Year's su ,Pat terns, A teen at the 0 ~e fora aried tract, e n be Tenders, n a igned not la terio I .RAN The nireet are now en, tat 1 . 1 , nds c !ern inder the Act of 18 ot the London r Me e until in stant, E a u „LIS' the A( 1657. these I Itailway, an( th e Province all t h ea its -..,e „, 6 per .aeh bond '4l Tuesday, the Bth ,-.,.f"0c Sltbseriber th e °Minn o f reePivinZ 1 Intcrest at eons reepi ve These Byn itild are reps; 2 1~O1d MI 5 5.....................-- M A leave c,, *7 so „ 9 10 30 0 , " 0 45 1 p,m 8 5 30 46 „ Leave 10 3 7 3 0 0 a : m 3 30 p.m Fares third cite are must Northern DAY TICI fro nt , d. sea ros e r) CODRS St atio at 10.40 a.m a.rn first ci !Dec:at Trail f,,. t g the r (14 ti "(Th daS, -rst a Yekets - nes° TiWde 44 day 1 11 ' Ring'', Tickets ‘4rots Stan -;r(ociving ( ..Ih-street n e nd 6 , Cross George , For tux th the excursi, li ities Cr tj • Atl i:) . s C more cash' ' 4 ilk 1 artri sc, - ;,c; . le, and 'L t,: ,stam ped -,egent-str at2lB. TI te eiPt of] \ ..-----____ Tip, st ,. c Jul lubl ELF t o O , i n I turn vicio to l iatihn r ate in it - 'nlark a YBteri es Urin ary e , otunplitint lidattleul Mere Al othe .1 he es: equenee Which tic hood, cri , other oa De.rtienia their ph3 ralti e „ . ] tksy Prin c i ple °tit i ne , e eed the fay and how that ther derang e Publ g is r noY be Qtrclon, consulte Bedford. le Calcutta Ctrrillat Colowtb, A NMI Patent 1 TRIE devoid , Sold In Valpeat TR con, qt lotg ', ll. ftZtl 'o'47 eftectu eradien ont s, tri ne CoPat; uto of ACCUT Anne. The • Train, Pbal Work - ~ and Sze. • Who !Stitt % Rll.l 8 , 001.1/: Micro 1 ane.