The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PAIZLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. FRIDAY; NAY 23. The Itoyal Assent was given by Commission to the Irish Loan Bill, the 'lrish Treasury Bills' Bill, the Scotch .I.uclOs'• Salary Bill, Lord St. Vincent's Annuity Bill, the Additional Force Repeal Bill, the Slave Importation Restrieticn Bill, the West India Indemnity Bill, the Admiralty Jurisdidio . n Bill, and forty Private Bills. . - The Commissioners were, the Lord Chancellor, Lord Walsingitam, and Lori' Auckland. The LORD CHANCELLOR having withdrawn, Lord ELLENBOROUGH took his place, and heard Mr. Grant, in part ; on behalf of the Appellant, in the Appeal " Graham ,v.. the. Countess: Dowager of Glencairn ;" the further consideration of which was deferred till Friday next. The LORD CHANCELLOR having resumes the Woolsack, - The Franking Bill and the ,Irish.-Debenturel ,were read a third time and Rassed, and a Message sent to , the House of Commons to acquaint them therewith. The Irish Baiter Bill and the Irish Spirits Bill,pasS-'! ed through Committees, and were reported. Mr. Denison; Mr. Mainwaring, Mr. Leycester, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Bootle, and, several'. other. Members of the House of - Commons, brOughtup se veral Private Bills, which were read a' first time. Adjourued till Wednesday ne.xt. VOUSE . OF cOMMOxs. FRIDAY, MAY 23. The House was summoned to the House of Peers o heara Ro)-al CornmisSibti fOr Passing. Bills read.-7- The Speaker on his return announced that the'Royal Assent 'had been given to the Irish Loan Bill, the Irish TreasurY 13_11Is' Bill, &. - c.c. 7 --[See the. Lords.]. Mr. 'ILEA- ADDINGTON gave notice of a Motion ) , after the holidays . , respeeting the state of discipline Of the Volunteer Corps. The Objea was to do away cer- , lain disagreeable impressions from the:minds of some Volunteer Officers;= - Who - regretted that the only 0- current from which an opinion could be formed of discipline by strangers. was drawo up after a single inspthion. He was not quite sure whether: frathe his MOtion in the shape of an 'Ad dress Majesty to lay before the House the Circular Letter of General Brownriog, - or generally to move that. the Returns should not be made - mere,. ly on one single inspeEtion. He expressed his high respea . fOr tht Officers, to whom he alluded. Mr. Fa ANci s.; As he nnderstood that the third the Property Duty Bill was fixed for Wednesday next, :gave notice that on that 'day he - -:%.V'Onld move for the omission of the proViSion which went to exempt tbreign property in the funds from. :06liayment of-the (Ito , . He hoped that Ministers would aT'lin consider the subjeCl, and by remedying this deteet, render his. Motion unneCessary. Anew :Writ' was ordered to be issued' for the •Fleetiun of a -Me,mber fin- the Borougli.of Cather-. logh; . in the room of Charles Montagu Ormsby, "N. who has accepted the office. of Recorder of !Priace of Wales's The A intrican Intel course Bill was brought in and ;vat'. a . fint • tube, Uti the Motion for the second :wadi t)g, --- Sir IV CURTIS hoped' that Ministers would still tak.liint to consider this most important subjea, and not press it forward rashly. ' • Lard . T.E.llPLic said, that ,the House would do him the justice to beheve that he had onsideredit in a;1 itsnearings , before heintrodueed such an int portant tudasure into the House. He saw no ground whatever tor alarm which seemed' to have been excited on this subject: But he did not wish to press forward the Bill improperly, and therefore would attend to the suggestion of the Fjom Baronet as far as . respeCted urging it on rashly. He would fix Monday tOr time second reading. Mr. pEgarA t, was- glad that the Noble Lord bad yielded thus far, and he hoped that he would relax something also in this, that he would, allow an investigation of. tit&s; . if it were for no other pur pose than to remove the prejudices, supposing them to be so,- - which had excited the alarm to which he alluded. When they could get at tho materials, it would give'them great satiSfa6tion if they could come to - the same &inclusion to which the Noble Lord had come. TARLETON agreed in sentiment with the Hon. Baronet. He ekpetied every hour instruc tions from his Constituents on this. point. - Lard TEMPLZ replied, that nothing which he had heard yesterday; or at any time, appeared to him to shey'v any occasion for inquiry. He agreed to the delay of the second reading till Monday se'nnight, but farther he could not go, _ _ . TheL second reading %srps accordingly fixed for . Monday se'imight. 'Sir J. NEwi , owr brougbt up the Irish Militia Ser vice Bill; read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on WedheSday next: The SEG it ETA it Y \VAR presented a Return of the Ximiber of effective Men in the Army from' Ja. 'wary,- 1805,, to . January, t 866. Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. Meux, from the India Holist!, presented the Bhurtpore Papers. Mr..1 3 41.7LL moved that those Papers be printed, and said that he had intended to move for an Ac count-of the Expence of Printing' he India Papers, as. so " - Much had, been said on that subjea. Be thought n bitter, howeVer, to wait, for some time, till the expellee could' be more 'accurately ascer tained. The Papers were ordered to lie on the Ta ble, and tube printed. •Lord HowicK plesepted Petition ,from the Royal College of Surgeons; relative to- a new Build- ink; for Star , Teal ,Lektures, the present one having been found inadequate tor. that purpose.---Ordered Ito be referred: to a.Corninittee, who should report t,o the House. ' . General as-the Abstraas.pnly of the Army ~Estiinats had been printed before, wished that the whole should be printed noiv, as they might he necessary in the military di,stussioni that . were expeaed to take place. . . The SECIUiIWRY at 1/4R saw no abjeetion to the printing of the Papers, except that he could not .conceive how they c,)uld apply to the tuilitarrdis, cussions that were to come on. It would be a sin, gular and unpreoeclehted proceeding to prittl Papers after the discussion, to which alone they referred, - was already past. -; —•- , General TA iILETON replie4, that there was a Paper relative to. eight West India Regiments main tained at a considerable- expence. He had asked the Right Hon Secretary for the War Department whe ther these Negri) . Regiments were to be inclUded in the limited service, but had got no answer. The SPEAKER having observed that there was no question before, the Hollsei - General TARLETON moved that .Papersthebe' printed. ort this a short discussion arose: Mr. PAULL said, that a Notice must be 'given of the Motion.. Mr. S. BOURNE said that no notice was required of a Motion for printin g Papers. The•SEcurrAßY AT WAR observed, that whether the Ne g ro Regiments Aeviments' were to be included in the plan oflimitedservice would be a gubjeol of discus sion when the business came forward; but he could not comprehend what the Estimatd had- to do with that. Mr. H - USKISSON contended that the Papers were necessary to shewhow the grants were disposed of and.whaber the expenditure corresponded with the sums voted. . , . Mr. WHlTBlizab asked, whether, when he was at the'Treasury Board, he had given in accounts of the:disposition 'of grants, and whether. the Paper presented on that subjeet was not a mereforin ? Mr. IVINDIIAM prguecl against, the preposterous and irrational proposition of printing Papers after the discussion to which they referred ;was past. There were important points to considered, but the Papers did flat bear upon them at all. • The, printing of the Papers would be of no use ;.vhatever. The SECRETARY at WAR, Lord TEMPLE, 'Mr. PERCIVAL., Doctor LAWRENCE, and Mr. C%.LCR AFT, each said a few words ; after which - the question for the printing 'was put, and negatived. On the Motion of Lord ENRY PETTY, it was ordered, that the House should, at its rising, adjourn -Wednesday. . _ _ Lord HENRY PETTY mooed .that, after the hair days, the House shguld go into a Committee to con sider of granting Salaries to the West India Com missioners of . Public Accounts, who might be ap pointed , by an At of this Session, and also-to con sider of granting Salaries to their. Secretary and Clerks, and of discharging their ineidental expences. —Ordered. THANKS TO THE MANAGERS OF. LORD MEL:: VII.LE's IMPEACHMENT, - The SECRETARY at' WAR rose j pursuant to' 'notice, to .move the Thanks of the House to the Managers of Lord Melville's - IMpeachment. In the Motion which he was about to submit on this sub jed, he hoped he would meet with the unanimous concurrence of thenouse. Theavliole Of the bu siness relative to Lord Melville was a matter of pe culiar importance. It was one to which the atten tion of the House and of the Country had been par= ticularly dire&ed. The Impeachment which had • been voted last session ;• the subseiVent Trial . Which had taken place in Westminster-lAA and all the proceedings cOnneaed- with this subjea, were of a nature that most excite the greatest interest in the Minds of 1111 those to WITOM the care of watching over the Feapenditure' of Om Public Money was chieftkentrusteil. That business - being now brought to a conclusion, and it being .customary for the House in this stage of the - business to express its sense of the cOnduet of the persons whom it had appointed to manage such matters, he now rose to call the attention of Gentlemen , o the condu6l of those who had the direction of the Proceedings in the. Impeachment of .Lord Ile believed that those who had attended, at Westminster-Hall, and who had obserVed the (ondu6t of these Mana gers in every stage of the proceedings, N.vould.agree with him, that hth.veverexcellently any former Im peachment might ' have been conducted; however Judicious, skiltnl, and prudent the condo& Of. Ma nagers might have been on any former - Occasion, • -none could ever have been ' condueted ivith more ability, more zeal, more discretion, more. judici- . ousness, more prudence, or more energy, that this last had been. In the seledion of these Managers the House had naturally given the preference to those who, from their zeal, - ability, and attention to the subjea, appeared ;best qualified to execute . with fidelity, She duties which wereto be' imposed upon them. Upon this principle, that per Son was particularly fixed upon who had all along appeared best conversant with the ad'air, and who had proe cuted the subjed with zeal and ability,, and becorn 'iqg regard to the due _Expenditure of the Public Money, with an energy and unremitting attention, • .which would for ever intitle him, to the gratitude and veneration of his contemporaries,• and of poste tity; In addition to that person, ;others had been sele&ed, who seemed by their abilities .-and - . high public charaEter, as.vell as from their attention to ; Ole subjed,....to bp eminently qualified for the. task 'Which was to. be assigned them-. The manner in which they bad executed that task', the House had had an Oppoilunity of witnessing; aiid.therefore was not necessary-for him to dwell 'at any - length Upon that point. But whether - one considered the able and argumentative manner in which the business had been 'opened, the judicions arrangement which had been made in bringing forward the evidence, • the skill and ability in the examination of the wit nesses, the strong; clear, and impressive eloanence with which the whole had been. summed up, or the luminous exposition of the -Laws,' which had im pressed convi&ion on every mind, the Managers were certainly intitled to the Thanks and Gratitude' of this House; as well as of the Country in general. But there was another point of view in which the Managers were intitled to our Thanks. FrOin 'the ,delays and-difficulties which had before generally _accompanied Impeachment,, it had. been regarded by many as a mode of Trial which ought -scarcely ever to be resorted to. Every lover of the Consti tution of his Country, every ,one who feels an at , tachment to the higliest, and most important powers and rights of the Comm Ons, the ProteCiors of the People and their property, must have witnessed with - - • l • '• f sensations of no e sans a ion the. clear, speedy, • and admirable management of tbe last -Itopeachs' ment.' That embarrasstnents and 'difficulties had at • tended many 'former' Impeachments was not to be quo:itioned, and that a great Many had felt daspositioir to resort to this tnode'of Trial in ccinse• etletice, 'was equally certain; it was not, therefire, the least part of the Merit of the Managers can this c,cisibn that they had wiped away the 'Stain which hung over 'lmpeachments in general, and prove 1. that these might, by proper skill and attention, be. con duaed in a manlier as - little vexatious, clear of difficulties and,ernbarrassnients, 661 as ekpeclitlously and plainly, as any ordinary Trial. They had„ by their care in avoiding extraneous Matter, and confin ing theMseives strialyto those - things which were clearly - cortne6ted,with the subje6t, removed all !lie obje6tions to the mode of trial by Impeachment and he hoped they would never more be revived.. This, then . ; was the Manner in Managers had performed the duties 'imposed *upoir - i them. by the House; and it was on these grounds that' he cOnfi daftly expeEted there" be one dissenting Voice , to the Motion which he, would now propose ; that was, " That the Thanks of this.HoUse be giVn to the,Mernbers - Who . were - appointed to manage the Impt3achment of . Lord - MeWille,. for the zealous, able, and faithful Manner irc Which .they had fulfilled their duty." • *Upon ~ the' question benig but,, one voice said " No :" who it!was we - Conld,:notiearn. • . The Managers then - stonehp, and the SPEAK,R addressed them 'nearly as follows :;: ‘. - " _GENTI:EMENi ‘i This _House has lately -had Occasion to enter upon .a grave and important Inquiry into the-Admi nistration of the PUblic-ReVenue;arid in the course of - that,lnquiry &has been - called upon to exercise the most solemn funaions that belong to the Hotise of Commons, and:that 'transeendant power by which. .it brings: to the bar'of ju'st'ice the 'higher servants of the Crown, and guards ilgairist all inroads upon the liberties of..the People. That-power, Gentlemen, 't delegated, to you, in order - that yon might exa mine into,a 7,7ariely:of .complicated inattei; much of .which WaS Ql*grei and difficult to be unravelled, - and male good the charges of High Crimes and Misdemeanors against a Noble-Lord, who, .from his high situation in the State, and- the dignified nature of the office which -he - held, must have been a sig7 nil example, either for good or for ei'il, fo . all per , sons who may be entrusted with the care of the Public Expenditure , . Throughout the Trial, Genlemen, we have witnessed your condu& with a high degree . of approbation, We have observed your skill, your' fidelity, and dispatch, which have rescued the-triode of trial by Impeachme-nt from the , disgrace 'which seemed to be attached- to it, and which -have re stored. t his• privilege and sacred ight,--of- the House of Commons to its genuine lustre - 4'l'nd purity. We have witnessed that unwearied indawand . sagacity which you- have exercised throrigh4athat bold ness so properly belonging to the 1-3Ouic of Cora, mons—and that..learning, ludgment, -, an ' perspi, cuity; which have spread .the , : light' of day over transgtions before dark; 'secretaild'diflicult to .be brought into open 'view. 'inc itiafter . 'rar ity With the Lords, bind this Circutnstan&o,'as liiraS any' thing human can be relied on, alters - Jam fairest hope . of ultimate substantial juStice. Gentlernen,; whatever the issue . 'may be, yotv have dose your. part—and I feel the highest -gratification in co:n-, wunicating to you that Resolution Of 'Thanks which the House his voted. That Itesolution is, " That the Thanks," &c. he read, the. motion.] The•SECRET.IRY at Ir.,4lrOse . and Said, that : though he was disappointed in his holies. of onank , n tnity, on his f)rtner 24,yti9n,. - 1, ) - one dissentientl?oicp„ : yet 1 4 e belieyed th-at in the ;.:..fotion- Avhich he was now - to submit, he would not be opposed• by even that one. The Mocion That Mr. SPEAKER be destredto print •the Speech which he made to the Managers of the Impeachment of Lord Melville, in consequenCe of the Resolution :of the House.': Qrdered. • .117 x. PERCIVA L allowecithat the pre&dentS not only justified, but eVen'called for-a Vote of Thanks in this stage of the business. At the same time, for 'a variety of reasons, '.which he would not now enter upon; he thought that it‘might , be extremely expedient to Consider whether these Votes of Thanks ought to be passed till the final termination of the busineSs'of Impeachments by the Judgment of the Lcirds. 'fie would not enter now upon ,the subject id detail, because this would be falling into the evil which he deprecated ; but after ttieJudgment• 'of the Lords was given in this case he would certain ly. bring a Motion before the House to prevent ,any consideratiOn of a case of Impeachment, by a Vote of ThankS, while it was before the Lords, and before they had given their decision. A Message from the Lords announced their assent to the Irish Bank Debenture Bill and another. The SECRETARY At WAR moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the increase of Subsistence Money to the Innkeepers who had Soldiefs quartered upon them. Leave given. *. "."; PUBLIC ACCOUI‘ITS. Mr. ROSE adverted to the Statement which had been made by the Noble Lord opposite, on the Sub let& of the Public Accounts. From the manner and tone of the Noble Lord, and indeed from his •': words too, it appeared as if he considered: the late • Government as highly blameable in this business. He bad represented it in a tight.which would not only have destroyed all confidence in that Govern ment, but which would have a powerful effea in destroying all-confidence; in any Government what ever. Be said that Accounts -to aboit 450 . millions bad been - left unpassed. He (Mr, Rose) had exa mined, into the case, and the result was, that fitly millions belonged to the Barrack Aeco - unts, and 220 millions to the Pay Office • now, ,consideringwho were the persons' in that office for some years past, be hoped that it - could' not . be readily .supposed that -there was any remarkable error there. The only in stance of error waS in a sum of 22,4'001. for which the persbns concerned were prosecuted; and one of them severely punished. The fault, 'however, was hot in thellay Office, but in the War:Office,. as he had before stated. The Accounts fOr so many years back were not at this moment transmitted to the Pay Office, though he did not mean to blame any particular person. The next sum 'Was in the Navy Office, amounting to go millions. That matter -rested With the Commissioners of the Navy—.they - carried their Accounts to the Attetitots, but that was -a matter of form. • The- riOxt . sum was 45 milliOns . in the , Seal Office, which ought to have been, au- . cited there; and all these, with another sum ,c;1 24 millions, Which had nacome to the - Auditors,' formed a total of '429 Millions out of the' 450 to which his Lordship had; allnded. trd effittiidect % that, in the expenditure of these 429 milligns pb . use, could 'possibly have existed . : 4e .a4aitted.that thvy were not atidifed--.he• did not deny this 7 Fut he said that no part of the, stun had been,lost to -th, public.— ,He then considered the Auditors' Bill, which had been brought in by his Right Hon. Friend how no more; and contended, that full powers had been given ,by that„Commission... He extolled the merit of . his Right Hon. Friend who had brought in the .13ill,against the opinion -of the Commissioners, and in: opposition to . Gentlemen on that .side of the House, who then argued., th - at -it was unneces :Sky. :He himself, had framed the. Bill, and every necessary provision was put into it.that the Crown LaWyers;,*could-devise. It empowered the Com missioners to examine Qn oath; and prohibited theml - rom vouchcirsWithout , going - •to.,the ..Exche quer. It.ajso took .:away .the: discretionary power from the. Treasury of maklucr allowances. to Ac countants. The Boardll,vas selled entirely from the merit of the Member., . Thiee .of the Commis , sioners, Sir William Musgrave, and. other two; were • men well known to be.eminently qualified for busi ness; and the remaining part -of the- Commission was composed of the Army Comptrollers; who cer tainly were not prev en t e d b y a press of business at th* time-from , attending to• this affair. He wished the whole. of this bitsiness to b 9 probed to the hot torn. After. the Address which had been now made to the Managers, all must be convinced that there was no, duty more important than a .eareful examination %into the Pnblic Accounts. He wished, therefore; • that a Committee should be appointed to investigate this buSitiess, and whip should report to„the. House the names of those who shoUld be foußd to have been deficient in their duty. This Act had_been in force twenty-one years; and he h a d never, heard that the posters were insufficient. 'Sums of the public money were issued to persons who Were not Accountants, and provision ought to be made for this in the'new Bill.: He again adverted to the War Office, which Was in the habit :of issuing about 10 millions,a yeir• without having' its ac..ounts -ex amined, The Nibble ~ord seemed to have intro duced many of 'his statements for the purpose of stage elfeft, - ak he was pot warranted in some of them. He ,mentioned the case of Trotter, hitt) Iclitlitose;afiitir hehad inquired. The 1\:oble- Lord bad stated, that he had supplied stores to the amount of .700,0001, for which he -accounted to nobody. The fact. was, that. this - had:ll4sta done in consequence of an arrangement'of a Secretary at" War, Lt order to save a great deatof .expenee. Trotter was, by this, to give:in a statement of • the expellees of the ma terials, and scas.aliowed a profit'of in per cent. on the whole, arid for his trouble in taking care of these stores in 1 og. dept ti: Ile- heitrd that the present Secretary at Warapproved that arrangement. ' He seemed; bY bismanner - ,.t0 - say.ci" Na''-4-but he hoped he would, have no ,objeakin to.roduce his Letter to the Treasury on .111.0.. t subje.-.6t. He said again, that his only desire: was to have this ,subjed fairly aniined) and concluded by moving, " That .a Re turn should -he made. of all the -Suais -.issued from :the Exchequer to the principal Accountants ; and by them to the SO-accountants-, at•. - present out standing-7-:.shewing those, that lad - been deliver e4' in, those under examination, the progress that 'had - balances` due to the . !Ltird HENRY - PETTrZediired,. that in what fell•from him on' the Ginner niAlic he had no •Inten . - .tiOn to convey. any inicnuations against any of the persons formerly at•the head of the Departments. The:Right Hon. Gentleman surely could not .sup pose that he meant to throw out any' insintlations agairrict his Noble Friend at the Head 'of the Trea sury, and who formerly held the offiCi! of Aud4or of the Exchequer, because his accounts had not been passed and if so, het might be.allowed the. credit ~of not having done so against others. He had admitted that - there were impediments to the settling of many .of the accounts, and he had ab stained from Making any personal insinuation what ever. There was another way, however, in which he seemed- to have given offence to the Right Hun. Gentleman ; and this was 4the tone and manner of his statement, If there was any thing in hi.; tone or manner which seemed to the House to be amiss, he was sorry for it. But if, in making such obscrva tions as his duty Called forth on measures hi which the Right Honourable Gentleman was a party, he.: had only failed to please the Right Honourable Gentleman, he did not feel so anxious to mak e an y apology. The Right Soriourabfe Gentleirian had said, that no very, considerable part uf:any arrears would be lost to the Public. He himself had grated that he hoped that would be the case. 'But would the Right Honourable, Gentleman venture to say, that it was no loss to the Public that the AceiScittt,t of the Barrack Daparanent—of the Public Stores to an immense amount—of the Expedition to the Helder—of the Expedition to Egypt-and o our whole Foreign Subsidiary System during the last War, had never been audited—all of which had taken place while the Right Honourable Gentle man himself was at the Treasury Board ? This tieing the fad, the House must agree with :him in -think ing, that,, though great part ofilie-•Sum granted._for these services might be properly laid'Unt, trove was every pOssibility of great frauds having • been com mitted. The Rie.t Honourable Gentleman had ac cused him of not dealing - titirly by .Mr. 'Fruiter. He had only stated -the circumstances in which that Gentleman stood. glut did . he impute any blame to him ? No. however, he Ilan omitted it on the former day, he should now ask, it' the Right Hon. Gentleman thought it proper that the same person should be the Purveyor, -Manufatturer, end - S-thre keeper' of Government, atid at the sat time the Auditor of his own AccOunts Did the . Right Honourable Gentleman mean to say- Ilia ten - per cent was all that Mr. Trotter had: on these fur,. nishings ? Ha had, - besides ) - an additional five per cent. for credit, and another five per cent. for incidental charges, making it total of '2Ol. percent. He had not said, however, that Mr. Trotter was to blame in this,- , ...probably be .might hate been right to have - got' 50 per cent.,- if he contd.— . In 1801, suspicions being entertained as to the Cot redness of his charge, a charge at prime cost was demanded, when it was found that these were his additional charges. He then reduced the 10 per cent. charge to 4 per Cent. ;' the•eitra Charge. from 2b per.cent: and the'nther 5 per cent.'tOr intc . rest he gave - up entirely ;• ::sn thatlie •t heti began ' to find the:Same articles tor TI -per cent. -which durit g the whole War he •had charged at tiolesS than per. Cent:: • The - :Noble Lbrdliad'fier lfe;ttation hi ani.tw Trotter; -the jus tif* -to .44cClareo}rate franc -~~:~