The Sun. — London, England, 1840-02-28 00:00:00

for the introduction, of desirable and solid improvements In 1914, he proposed and carried, in the face of violent op pcsition, after the most persevering cffw ts, by a majority one, a Cornmissitm to inquire into the mode of admi nlinistering: justice in the Courts in England and Irelanl, and that Commission abolished a great number of sinocarcs and useless places. The result of that great measure was in the Court of Chancery in Ireland, where the expenses of ha diffetent offices was 75.0001., to produce a saving of 26,0001. ; in the King's Bench, where the expenses 30.000/., a saviuo. was effected to the amount of 17,0004; ha the office cf the Clerk of the Pleas or the Ex -nequer, where the expenses were originally 28,0001., a savi:lg was eff,;(•ted cf 16,0001. ; great savings were also effected in the Ceurts of Error, and altogether the saving effected amount to upwards of 75,0001. in the ad ministration of the Courts cf Justice in Ireland, and equal savings had b.•eia effected in the Courts in England and Scotland by the same Commission. Dur ing the whole career of Sir J. Newport in Parliament he had never desisted from giving his attention to the laws which would have the effect of relieving the pr,or and distressed in Ireland.—( Hoar, hear.) In 1804 he bronght forward the case of the lunatic poor, and in 1806 he introduced the great measure for improving hospitals. In 1819 he drew up that elaborate Report with respect to the state of disease in Ireland, which led to the eats bl'shment of fever hospitals i s that zountr: - .—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the Church in Ireland, Sir J. Newport had always shown himself its steady friend, and he had introduced Bills for the removal of many of the evils with which that Church had been sum:ur - led. Among them was a measure to do away with the evil of non-residence of the clergy, the abolition of pluralities, and the vestry cess. In short, there was no one measure con cerning great national questions of Irish policy, no details concerning the local administration of the country, to which Sir John Newport did not give his superintendence and control. Every measure of internal improvement had been carried by his direct interference or the hearty ce-operation which he gave to all measures that were cal culated for the public good. He mentioned this for the purpose of showing that Sir John Newport deserved well of his country; in fact, he might fairly say of him that his de e d s wou ld f o ll ow hi. n .—( !leer.) He ( Lord Mos peth) could not regret, as one deeply interested in conse ci quence of hi s p os i t i on , b u t still more by his feelings Ina heart, in the welfare of Ireland—( Hear, hear)—he could .not regret that ho had been thus called upon to state the benefits which the country had received from its venerable benefactor, Sir John Newport.---( Hear, hear.) Would it he contended—it was in terms contended, by the Honourable Mover of the resolution, that the circumstance of Sir John Newport being only .t Tear in office barred him from enjoying this paltry pension ? Was it to be contended upon sucn flimsy grounds that his claim to the consideration of the Crown was invalidated? Ia the case of Mr. Grattan, who received a spontaneous pension from the gratitude of the Irish ration, could it be contended ie his case that because he had refused to accept office he was not entitled to the consideration of the Crown ? So with respect to the case of Sir Samuel Homily and Sir James Macintosh, and other great states men, whose names graced the Pension List, could it be contended that because they had not performed official service they were Rot entitled to the consideration of the Crown ? It had been contended in the discussion the other night that pensions assigned for Parliamentary services ought to be given by Parliament, and not by the Crown. That would, he believed, he contrary to all precedent. He believed that the feeling of the House was, and always had been, to leave those granta to the pleasure of the Crown. The Hon. Mover of the resolution had intimated that he thought the sum of one thousand pounds was too large to be taken from the limited sum allowed to the Crown every year for pensions. Now ho (Lord Morpeth) thought it was not salutary, after they had so limited the power of the Crown, further to question its right, provided it was shown that the pensions conferred were not upon un worthy objects. Was Sir J. Newport an unworthy object? ( Hear, hear.) He would challenge the names of any per sons upon the pension list who could feel themselves dis paraged by having the name of Sir J. Newport placed be side them.—( Hear, hear.) The case of Sir J. Newpo-t fell directly within the limi's prescribed by the Act which gave her Majesty the power of granting pensions to a certain amount every year. It had been con tended by the Hon. Member who had moved the resolution that they were sapping the just claims of the other parties Ile ( Lord Morpeth) could not see how the lion. Gentle man made out this proposition. He thought that the Hon. Gentleman had ill consulted the dignity of Mr. Words worth by msking use of his name in the mariner in which ho had done. He (Lord Morpeth) always re joiced to see talent and tho arts receiving the reward of merit from their Sovereign—but he thought that the claims of literature and science ought not to assume too stipendiary a character. He thought that the worst effects would be produced if there wore to be a systematic applies lion of the royal bounty to certain cases. He thought that all claims should its their time and turn receive their duo consideration from the Crown. Sir John Newport, in the words of the resolution he had to propose, was cow eighty years of age. He had lcd a life of great activity and honour, and he had now retired for the remainder of his days. He (Lord Morpeth) hod had the good fortune to visit him in his retirement, and he might describe him in the word tof the moralist and the poet, as a man " Whoa* active days beneficence endears ; Whose nights congratulating conscience cheers. The general favourite and the general friend ; Such age there is, and who would wish its end." —(Cheers.) He (Lord Morpeth) would not impute to the Hon. Gentlemen opposite any wish for the end of such a life, but he thought that the tendency of the resolution was to cast a cloud over the evening of his day;, end to embitter the calm serenity of the part ng hours of so great a benefactor to his country.—(Great cheering.) To pre vent so undesirable a result, he proposed the resolutions which he would now put into tare Speaker's hand, and which he called upon the House to adopt in preference to the spiritless and pointless resolutions of the Hon. Gen tlemen opposite.—( Cheers.) The oilainni motion and the amendment baring been put from the Chair, Mr. LEADER rose to address the House. The Hon. Mover of the resolutions had told the House that his reso lutions were as mild as milk—( Laughter)—and that the amendment of the Noble Lord was pointless and spiritless. Now ho (Mr. Leader) thought that if the original re solution was milk and water the amendment was water and milk. One said that this pension could not be drawn into a precedent, and the other said that it should not be.— " Strange such a difference there should be 'Twist Tweedledum and Tweedledie." (Lauhter.) There w as one p o i nt i n t h e N o bl e L or d' s speech which certainly showed great simplicity. He re ferred to semething that he called a job perpetrated by the Tories in the case of Mr. Holmes.—( Laughter.) It was astonishing to him (Mr. Loader) that the present Mi nistry should always be cavilling at the acts of the Tories, when they were in point of fact following their footsteps. —(Cheers.) For what reason had the acts of the Tories been held up to ridicule by the Whigs ? Why, fur no thing else but to turn the Tories out of power when in, and to put the Whigs, who were quite as bad if not worse, in their places. The people wbo heard the Whig' express such an ab horrence of jobbing did not expect that the Whigs would look back for precedents, and try to imitate their predecessors in expending lavishly the p e hli c money. It appeared to him there had been a succession and a complication of jobs. He was glad the Hon. Gentleman bad brought for ward this subject, because the discussion upon it would enlighten the public a little as to how pensions were granted, and parties were appointed to offices under the pure reign of the Whigs. In order to make this suhject clear to those who had not examined ir, he would state a few facts.__( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) He bad no doubt there were many gentlemen who wished the else not to he examined into.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") In the first place they must go hack- to the remo. dellii4,g of the Exchequer; and why should not Mr. Henr) Ellis have been appointed to the (Zee of Clerk of the Panels when the Exchequer was remodelled ? But Mr. Ellis was dismissed with a pension, to which he had a clear right, of 1.400/ a year.—( Hear, hear.) When tl e Right Honourable Baronet opposite came into office for a short time during 1834 Mr. Henry Ellis'a name was found on the list of persous receiving public money, but who Wets able to perform public service, and anxious and willing to be employed. He was asked if he would have auy objection to go back to Persia as Ambassador? He replied no; and he wits accordingly appointed. When the pure Whip, however, came into office they changed his Emboss} into an appointment of a temporary character. He was sent to congratulate the Shah en his accession. and another gentlemal was appointed as Ambassador There was no reason except party reason fur hot placing Mr. Ellis in the (Zee of Cemptroller-Genatal, and therefore, so far as he was concerned, 1,4001. a year of the public money had been thrown away.—(Hear, hear.) Then he came to the appointment of S;r J. Nee port. He did riot wish to say a wor d aga i nst Sir J. Newport ; he might have been a very good master to Lots! Wellesley and Lurd Grenville, and he might have saved 75,0001. a year to the country. Peet was that a ground for giving him a pen lion? — (Cheers.) Did not Members come into that House pledged to endeavour to reduce the public ex p ese diture ?—(Cheers.) Wh y upon thatground the Hon. and Callent Memb er f or Li ncoln (Col. Sibtho r ent:thel to a penaion.—( G reat laughter and che P e ) • w g " The lien. and Gallant Member h a d save d the country 20,0001. sal wry a year out of Prince Albert's. Ile (Mr. 1,. ) would also life to know what amount of pension would be sallieient to show the gratitude of the people, and to re munerate his Hon. Friend the Member for Kilkenny (Mr. Hume) for his services.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.'.) The fact was that if Members were to be paid for public serviees they would be there merely as competitors for the public money, and the public would be justified in saying such a man is not actuated by any desire to save the public expenses, but he is only thinking of Sir J. Newport, who bias a pension because he saved the people 75 000/. e-year.—( Cheers.) Then a long list of the motions Sir J. Newport had made was read. Ile ( Mr. Leader) was much dismayed on hearing that list. for it appeared to him that it would be a sort of inducement to Hon. Members to snake as many met:oust 35 posAibic __(Great laughter. ) Without meaning to say a word against Sir j. Ncelairt— (Hear, hear, from Lord J. Russell)—what could the Noble Lord mean by that very exqui,oe cheer ?—( Hoar, bear.) He had not said a word against Sir J. Newport. —(Cheers.) Ho believed that Sir J. Newport airs a good master to Lord Wellesley and Lord Grenville ; lie balleved that lie did save money for the country—he believed that be did make a great many motions in Parliament—that he had done a greet deal of good, and that he was a egad old man in Ireland.—.(Hear, hear.) But what of that—all that was no reason for giving him a perision—( Cheers)— especially when the way he was appointed to office was considered. H 2 (Mr. Leader) believed it was a rule that no man should have a pension for having been in a public office till he bad served twenty-five years, At the time Sir J. Newport was appointed to this office he was seventy five or seventy-six years o f ago, and it was therefore almost 31 impoesible that be should b e ent i tled to a pension for twenty-five years service. The Act of Parliament, there_ fore, under which he was appointed wag h ea r.) Then they were told Si r J. Newport retiredf t r h o a rn: office on account of his great age and infirmities, but was a good reason against his being appointed at all. (Hears hear.) What was the interpretetion that any man of common sense would put upon this appointment? It was this that the Government wanted to remunerate an old partisan for his party services. They were afraid, in consequence of their own professions of economy, to ; .eve him a pension at once, and therefore they gave him this office as a sort of stepping -stone to a pension.—( Hear.) Then I come (said the Hon. Member) to the third pert el the job, and upon this every Hon. Member must have all the circumstances fresh in his memory. About the mid dle of the last Session, the late Chancellor of the Ex chequer had:gicen such dissatisfaction to almost all com mercial men throughout the whole country, that the Governmert found they must positively get rid of him from that office, or that the commercial interests of the country would make them go out of oflice.•—( Hear, bear, and laughter,) Having found it was necessary to get rid of a most inefficient Chancellor of the Exchequer—and I state without fear of contradiction from any one who had to deal with him, that he was inefficient —the Government did not know what to give him as a sop.—( Lauge ter. Plany Members of the Govern ment went about— and - many Geutiemen present will bear me out in that statement—canvassing for the Speakership 'Or Mr. i Spring Rice,—( Cheers and la u g hter.) It was p lainl y t ll t e e r d thatf the Exchequer:Nlr. prht Spring Rice O h he am%esnt unpopular ° lo u t r a i r d a o f C I I2 ;o In M ce that office. It wal said, " You think him inefficient as Chancellor of the Exchequer ; won't you vote for him as Speaker?" To that I answered, " I dislike him very much as Chancellor of the Exchequer, nut I shall certainly not vote for him ns Speaker. 1 think you had better get rid of him in some other way, because, if you put hint up for the Speakerahip, you are sure to be beaten."—( Cheers and laught er .) Well, Sir, for our good fortune, we hav e selected - you as Speaker.—( Loud cheers front both sides of the House.) It was therefore necessary for the Go vernment to find some other retiring place for the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, and as I suppose he considered himself very ill-used in not having been made Speaker of the House of Commons, the Government were obliged to give him a most disproportioned reward for his party services—for I cannot call them public sm.- vices.—( Cheers.) When a man retires from office after long party services, he has a claim to one of two things. If he happens to he a needy man, and wants money, per haps he has a claim on his party for a good place, which will enable him to live comfortably for the rest of his days. If, on the other hand, he cared not for money, but for power, and the power which appearances give, I think he may be fairly entitled, for party purposes, to the honeurand power of a Peerage. But in the case of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, you have an accumulation of rewards, —you not only give him a Peerage, which would be quit. enough, but you add to it the well-paid office of Comp troller-General of the Exchequer.—( Hear, hear.) Having stated what my belief is of the way in which this office has been jobbed for party purposes, and against the interests of the public, I should like to call the attention of the House and the public to one very important fact, namely, the loss of public money occasioned by this appointment. I dare ray I shall be told that what will it signify that 2,0001. or :3,000/. a year of public money has been given away to this meritorious person. I say, Sir, it signi fies a great deal. That is a sort of argument which a reckless spendthrift uses when he finds his fortune ernbarrassed. He says, What can it signify ? I am half ruined already, and a few thousands cannot make much difference.—( Hear, hear.) And so it was with the government ; they went on spending the public money, but the people will feel it, and they will feel the bad moral effect which it has in the country. Is this a time for public extravagance?—is this a time for jobbing, when there is among the working classes great distress and almost universal discontent ?—is this the time for giving them an argument against the existing institutions of the oountry? Such an argument as this jobbing will make mere Chartiats than twenty of the most violent speeches delivered at public meetings.—( Hear.) It is this want of consistency in public men—this receding from professions by those who have got into office on the ground of retrenchment, and Reform, and purity—it is this which make Chartists and causes men to be discontented, and to see whether they could not form some better system under which the public money would not be so lavished, and public offices so jobbed. The Hon. Member, after thanking the House for the attention they had given him, concluded by saying it appeared to him the whole matter might be summed up in a few words. It was a job. Not only was it a job, but a job perpetrated by men who professed a great abhorrence of jobs, and declared they would be economical of the public money. To sum it up in one word, not only was it a gross and clumsy job, but it was a Whig job.—(Cheers and laughter.) Mr. BARRON thought a most unfounded and shameless attack had been made on one of the most honest, indefati gable, and best men that ever sat within those walls. No man was more entitled to a mark of the favour of the Crown than that Right Hen. Gentleman, for his indefatigable and unwearied exertions in the cause of the people. If the resolutions of the Hon. Member were passed, it would be casting a censure upon Sir John Newport, for if it were wrong to grant the pension, it was equally wrong in him to accept it. He believed it was the most pure pensionupon the list, and he would fearlessly poll the nation upon the question, whether there was one name upon the list which had such a right to be there for services ren dered to the country? His Right Hon. Friend had forced more useful reforms than had yet been carried by the Re formed Parliament, and that under very adverse circum stances, having the support of from thirty to sixty Mem bers only ; and the benefits he had conferred had not been confined to one country, hut extended equally to Ireland and to England. It was said that he had only done his duty as a Member of Parliament. Because he was a Member, and bad done his duty well and persever ingly, was he to be debarred;from:receiving any t bounty from the Crown? A poor poet, or the writer of some twaddling romance, might enjoy the Royal beneficence; but because a man bad spent 26 years on the opposition side of the House, ho was to be debarred from it.—( A laugh.) lie could assure the Hon. Members opposite that if any of them sat 26 years on the benches opposite he would vote for a pension of 1,000/. to him if he did half as much good RS his Right lion. Friend. It was known that he was a man of such honour end ability that men of all parties rated for him in the city of Waterford ; and were lion. Gentle men now going to cast a stain upon him in his old age for political and party purposes ? Mr. O'CONNELL rose to protest against a part of the speech of the lion. Member for Westminster; he com plained of his attack upon Lord Monteagle, ns it was merely made for the purpose of wounding another party. The deeds or doings of Lord Monteagle were not before the House. The motion was as idle a one as had ever been made in that House, unless it were intended to inflict a stain upon the charaoter of an aged and afflicted man. The intention might be different. The avowed object might not be so; but be defied any man to contradict the Noble Lord, when he said that the case of Lord Montoagle was wholly separated from that of Sir John Newport. The question was whether the Government was to be censured for the arrangement by which Sir John Newport was allowed to retire upon a pension upon the Civil List. The Hon. Member for Westminster, had not properly stated the facts ; he might talk of Whig jobbing, but there was such a thing as Chartist cant— (Cheers and laughter)—and he did say it very much re sembled it when the Hon. Member talked of a saving to the public, when, in fact, there would be no saving, the only question being into whose pocket the money should go If that was a question bringing the whole trananction before the House, it would be deserving of a different consideration, but in the shape in which it came before the House, it was a mere porsonal attack upon an individual who deserved so well of Ireland that be could net give a silent vote upon it. It was Sir John Newport, who by his indefatigable inquiries enabled the Government to abolish Church-rates in Ireland, and he deserved well cf the country. He must repeat his strong protest against assailing cue party through :mother, as had been done by the Hon. Member for Westminster, and h e would have much, plemotre iii voting for the amendment. Sir JAMES GR. A HAM rose amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide." He found it impossible to remain silent after the speech( s of the two Hon. Members ohs spoke last. If lie was of opinion that the motion ender consi deration faller directly or indirectly censured the cha racter of Sir John Newport, no individual in the House would have more strenuously resisted it than he would.— , (Cheers.) Having known that Gentleman formany years. he could rot cell to his recollection any public servant whom he considered mere honest, more independent, or more useful than be was.—(Cheers.) It was stated also upon authority that the private circuit stances of Sir John Newport were embarressed.—( Hear, hear.) He considered the misfortunes of the good as sacred, and therefore it was that he took part in the debate with pe culiar pain. Ile acquitted Sir John Newport of all blame. het he accused Ministers, beeriest! !hey had exposed Sir John Newport to unmerited (tli (ly, and placed liim in most painful situation. But be should be ashamed of him self if any private considerations could deter him from !rankly expressing his opinions upon any subject. He was A party to the resolutions passed in 1832, upon which the pension arrangements were founded in the Civil List Act ; but he confessed he did not adopt them with any strong predilection in their favour. He though it was for the public advantage ' that there should be a harbour of refuge, in which old and deserving Statesmen might escape from the cold ingrati tude of friends. The Clown was the scat of reward as well as of mercy, and he thought some sun should be placed at its disposal for the relief of old and distressed statesmen. He thought, that if, instead of appointing him Comptroller of the Exchequer her Majesty had been ad vised to grant a pension to Sir John Newport, whatever might have been the conduct of others, not o word would ever h ave f a ll en from him against it. His object . in rising was this, as he had taken an active p o ,rva e the Act for the alteration of the management diuring' th E e x c a n d e m q i n n e i r s , tra a t n i and alsof Lordin the G re A y c t for re gulation of pensions, he on felt both of the independence t. of the .m C s o e m lf ptr b o o l u le n r d shi s. hi that the present transaction was utterly subversive Exebequer,•and a direct violation of the Act which h Pto ac o l f b st e ta e ht n ee passed with respect to the pensions ranted to official persons. x m c ,inl ci e u e er ve . r n y .c e p ff e ) nr t to relater the Comptrollership of ~h e a d. ;. with the administration of hile r ars ; i p strie p ry j o eco i inhnttntmyo..Neetni the e of co S un i affairs. diay‘: ' LC contendedw al d con tahen e ct e t n et d t h of the Government of the ght years old, I Newport was a bad one and was at the time abo h ti ( L o : 7 t r John y.— ( He ir, hear.) In April, 1839 to Lord John Russell his inability to dischargeevvpart notified of the office. From the end of May,when n the duties it ascer tained that Lord Monteagle could not obtain tliewS"peAer skip of that House — throughout the month of May, months of June, July , and August, until September,y,the when the Session of Parliament was over, they kept the s ituation open, and then they immediately appointed their own Cabinet colleague to the office of sole Comptrolle r of the Exchequer, and sole Comptroller of the expendi ture of the country.—(Opposition cheers.) The present was not an attack upon Sir J. Newport, but it was a direci, attack upon the conduct of the Government, for having given to one of their colleagues an office of great responsibility and control, under circum stances of great suspicion.—( Loud Opposition cheers.) He would ask what were the great feats performed by Lord Monteagle before he bad left the House ? He omitted to fund Exchequer Bills when ho might have done so with immense advantage to the country, and his I,:st financial operation was to fund them in a manner which left them to the present day at a discour.t.—(Loud Opi:ositi ,, n cheers.) He had intr,duced a new mode of bidding for loans which had been absolutely scouted and laughed at, and he had brought forward a new mode of leasing Church property, which, on being brought before a Committee of that House, was found to be based upon error, and which he was consequently obliged to abandon. —( Renewed cheering.) What was his conduct with respect to the Committee on the Joint Stock Banks, one of the most important questions that had been brought before that House for ra..ny years ? That Committee had bee❑ sitting for three years, and Lord Monteagle was chairman on behalf of the Government, and he had never tendered them any advice with respect to the recommendations which that Committee should submit to the House, and upon a ques tion of such vital impoAtat,ce no report had ever emanated from the Committee.—( Cheers.) What was his next ef fort? With a deficiency of 3,000,000/., having so managed the revenue and finances of the country that he was obliged hunseif to acknowledge, that year after year these was an increasing expenditure with a reduced income. he brought forward his notable project for giving up 1,500,0001. of post-office revenue, and actually advertised a reward of 2001. to any man in the United kingdom who would help him to a plan to get rid of that sum.—( Great laugh er and cheers ) Again, with respect to the Charter of the Bank of Ireland, he brought forward a proposition, to relieve the country from the payment of 25,0001. per annum ; but be fore bidding them farewell he pointed out the necessity of succumbing to the overweening influence of the Honour able and Learned Member for Dublin.—( Loud cheers.) That was his charge. against the present Government. The Noble Lord, the Member for Yorkshire, bad spoken of the Government showing fight upon particular questions ; but he would remind them that on a former occasion when they had shown fight they were left in a minority of 104. ( Cries of Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.) They had shown fight upon a question which the Right lion. President of the Uoard of Trade termed a matter of the utmost importance—an unexampled insult to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and a subject of the gravest importance, the question_ brought forward by his Right Honourable Friend the Member for H neniely that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the present deranged state of the finances of the country, should be called upon for an estimate. The Right Hon. Gentleman said the motion was a most inconvenient one; but the Gc vernment still showing fight again—( Loud laughter)— it was their misfortune again to be defeated, as he hoped and believed would be the case again tc-night.—( Much cheering.) The resolution of his Hon. Friend was said to be a pointless one ; but he appealed to the House whether a situation of this sort should be completely under the con trol of the Government, and Pbother an office to which no pension was attached under the Act for the Regulation of Pensions should be brought directly within the free view and scope of it. He confessed that if that were the mode in which the Government showed fight, and if the result of former divisions was not considered conclusive, they must he considered gluttons indeed.—( Laughter and cheers.) The present motion was a direct charge upon the Govern ment, because if the course pursued were carried into a precedent, it would be subversive of the independence of the office.—(Hear, hear.) It was all very well for the Noble Lord the Member for Yorkshire to call the resolution of his Honourable Friend declamatory twaddle, but really looking at the Noble Lord's resolution, one would imagine that he was commenting upon his own production ; and he would undertake to show the House, if he was not wearying it, he could produce a paraphrase upon that resolution, setting forth the services of Lord Monteagle, which would just as well entitle him to a pen sion as in the case before the House. Suppose, for in stance, a future Administration found the control of Lord Monteagle inconvenient, which was to prevent their ap plying to him, and suggesting that, perhaps, it would be more satisfactory to him to return to Ireland, and enjoy that retreat to which his services entitled him upon 1,2001. a-year ; it would then he found convenient to appoint an intimate friend to the office. It appeared to him that if the argument was good for any thing, the present case might be drawn into a preccthnt, and there was nothing to save the House from that dangerous precedent but what lie believed would be the vote of that night.—( Loud and continued cheers.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL said I am quite prepared to defend the Government against the wire-drawn resolution of the Hon. Gentleman, but instead of having this duty to P erform I perceive the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to lead us off from the question—(Cheers)—and make those resolutions, which entirely concern the pension to Sir John Newport, and the Act regulating the Comp trollership of the Exchequer a medium of attack upon a gentleman who has not now an opportunity of re plying to him.—( Cheers.) I do not feel it necessary to enter into a defence of conduct not properly before the House at this time, and I am certainly surprised at this at tack, because I remember the Right Hon. Gentleman was for a long time a member of the Government when Mr. Spring Rice was a most able and efficient Secretary of the Treasury, and I should have thought would have recoi -1 iected with some gratitude the able and eloquent speeches which he made in defence of the Government when the Right Hon. Gentleman shrunk from his duty.—(Loud cheers.) I should have thought, certainly, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have recollected those services, that he would have recollected how much that Govern. ment, of which he was a member, and for which he said so little, was indebted to the able and eminent speeches and services of that gentleman, before he could have been induced to have attacked a man who was not now here to answer him.—(Cheers,) But if those speeches and ser vices, both official and Parliamentary, in all of which he had displaced not only great zeal but great ability, had obtained for Mr. Spring Rice a high reputation in that House, they also made such an impression upon the head of that Government, that, on the resigna tion of the Secretary of the Colonies, Earl Grey had thought he could place the seals cf the Colonial office in no better hands—(Cheers)--and, Sir, for my part, I can only say I think the confidence of Lord Grey was justified, and that Lord Melbourne was jus tified, in continuing the present Lord Monteag c a mem ber of his Cabinet. And, Sir, if the Right Honourable Gentleman had even ventured, which I de not re member that he did, to make such an attack on the conduct of my Noble Friend when he sat in this House, he would have met with such an answer as, in all probability, would have prevented him from repeating it.—(Loud cheers.) But safe as it was to sit upon this bench, and to have the Government of Earl Grey defended by others, by Lord Althorp, the Noble Lord opposite, Mr. Spring Rice, and others, it is more safe to sit in this House and make a laboured attack upon a per , son in the other House of Parliament.—( Cheers.) But the question before the House is not that which respects the financial conduct of the Government during the last Session. It is a question which we will not be induced by the taunts of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and his anxious wish to escape from it, to forget, whether the Go vernment was justified in granting a pension to Sir John Newport, a question, I must say, that involves to a great degree the character of Sir John Newport ; be cause, though weakened by age and bodily infirmi ties, he is in perfect possession of his understanding ; and consequently if he accepted knowingly and wilfully a pension to which Ito was by no means entitled, in violation in Act of Parliament, and in violation of the spirit of the Act relrting to the peesions on the Civil List. Let no one tell me that Sir John Newport will not feel it acute lv that this resolution imputes blame to him, and consider it a great blow from the House of Commons, in the decline of a life spent in a series of the most important services to his country..--( Cheers ) Sir, I venture to say, that Ido not think any person now receiving a pension on the Civil List for civil services (for I do not here compare them with tense great naval and military services which had been de servedly rewarded by the country) is so well entitled to receive a pension from the favour of the Crows as Sir J. Newport, and that the pension itself is (xtremely mod,rate, considering the character and ser vices or the person to whom it was given. Sir, looking back to the variours services which my Noble Friend has recounted, and which, therefore, I wilt not repeat, let me, in the first place, observe that I think we have fallen into a grievous error, and perhaps from these Acts of Parlia ment we may have some tendency to do so—if we say that for the future, not only with regard to Parliamentary pen sions hut those which Mr. Burke says are at the control and disc ction of the Crown, there must be done certain amount of official service to entitle the person to them. I think it possible that a person, with , eeard to the fsvour of the Cron. n, may in six months perform services to tire country which another person cotild not do In twenty years. Sir J. Newport, during the time be held office, iestituted many :equities in the various departments of the revenue, and cut off mane abuses, while at the same time he proposed and carried throu;;I: Parliament an Act allowing a free trade in cam between this country and Irelaed, which had been of the greatest benefit to this country and ad vantage to Ire! Ind. At the same time, in conjunction with Capt. Elliott end Mr. Ponsonby—two men whose names were entitled to the same honour as that of Sir J. Newport—he was the adviser of an inquiry into the mate of education in Ireland--another of the great bene fits which he conferred on that country. His inquiries a'so in the Courts of Law terminated in ..he most bent finial Acts, of which no less than ten or twelve passsed at his soggestion. Now, if a Parinamentary life spent in a scri• s of innporrant services is not a good ground for a pension, it appears to ale, when all the eirennistanc,s r. , 1 this case nee considered --when a man who has served in office with great ability, arid given great services to his country—when his proposals have been not only submitted but adopted by Perliament— aild when, in the course of a long life, he attains to a great a e ee 9 in narrow circumstance:, I do s a y I t hi n k these are sufficient grounds for a pension.—( Cheers.) Now I must com pare this pension with those grants to others on the ground of official services, to show the amount of pensions granted by other persons. Mr. Ward, Mr. Herries, Mr. Planta, Mr. Hoblionse, and Mr. Cour;enar, all received a pension cf 1,0001. a-year, exactly the same :is that of Sir. J. Newport, and in tine case of Mr. Pianta, it was increased to 1,500/. Mr. Lushington, Mr. Croker, and, is I said before, Mr. Pianta half as much again as Sir J. Newport, and Lord Althorp (not receiving it now), and Mr. Goulburn, 2.0004, and Lord Bexley, 3.000/. a year, which is three times as much as Sin J. Newport. There are others I could mention, among them Lord Sidmouth, who has given up his pension ; but it will he said these I think that is not a sufficient claim , for a pension for a pensions were granted by Act of Parliament..man who served his country for a nut to it. Then i rber of years in of t Tic e without being of essential isservice to be considered whether there are any grounds upon which a person may by recommended to the Crown who is not entitled to a pension under those Acts. I say, cer tainly so ; and the first Minister of the Crown must be tine belt judge of those qualiffeations. I own the. if I did lint think that, I think all the pensions must be questioned before the House of Commons, and if I were asked on what grounds a pension should be granted to Mr. Croker, Mr. Lushiegton, and others, I confess I could not guess recommended merely the rea son. — ( Cheers.) I think th i s power i s p r operly placed i n t h e Crown, ar t l ttehreir who w e r e trot tica,ns.oe persons doubt the Minis those persons to the Grown. I am therefore recommend • of opinion these pensions are , se t v e services, as induced th em to recom i not fairly questioned in the House of Commons, but that I the Crown, having to grant a certain amount of pensions on the Cvil List, the Minister is the proper perm te recommend to whom these pensions should be granted, and notwithstanding Mr. Burke has said those pensions are subject to the control of the House of Commons, I do not think it advantageous to bring forward a discus sion on each particular pension, and to decide each as party opinion would wide because those very services might Ire, in the eyes of sonic, no services at all—they might even, by some, be considered as injurious. Thus the eff,rta of Sir John Newport, with regard to education in ' , land might be con i.clered by some as a great injury to Ireland, and, therefore, it would be very inexpedient to make this particular question a subject of debate. The Right Hen. Gentleman has said he was forced into this discussion. Who has forced Um into this discussion? For myself may say that I hate been forced into it by the persevering e ttacks of the party of the Right Hon. Gentlemen upon the late Chancellor of the Exchequer. What is the way in which the question, whether Sir John Newport is entitled to his pension, has been met—( Cheers) —which, had it not been fur the Hon. Member for North Durham, would probably have passed as others which have been placed on the Pension List by the Right Gentleman opposite ? Then the Right Hon. Gentleman says there is something suspicious in Sir J. Newport's having expressed his wish to retire in April, and the arrangement not having been carried into effect for some time alter. I believe I was in error in the statement I made to the House on a former occasion respecting the letter I, hich had been written by Sir J. Newport, in the month of April, to Lord Melbourne, expressing his wish to call upon him with re gar! to his resienation, when he stated he was about to go to Ireland, and placed his resignation in the hands of Lord Melbourne whenever he might think fit to claim it. The Right Hon. Gentleman supposes that at that time Sir J, Newport was useless as Comptroller of the Exchequ,r, but let it he remembered that Sir J. Newport, in spite of his age and infirmities, performed his duty efficiently ; but there sees a certain period of the year when he, with other official personages, thought himself entitled to leave of ale,ence ; the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to think lie should ;lever have been appointed because of his ereat age, but I have always been informed that he attended most assiduously to the duties of his office, the duties of which were at that time more teen originally belonged to it The Right Hon. Gentle. man, and also the Hon. Member lierfoonr. G ffi NVe o s n t t in ie e m at e l n e stated would i that the eee ought to have been given to Mr. Elli s . I should have th ou ght the Right have remembered what occurred in the House when the original ,appointment was made. I remember Lord Al thorp stating to me that if any questions were put to him on the subject it would be must painful to him to answer it, because Mr. Ellis was known to be a near relation of one of his colleagues; and it would be most painful to him to say that he could not recommend Mr. Ellis to fill that office ; and in this Lord Althorp merely fulfilled his duty as a Minister of the Crown, because whatever might be the saving of expense I think a Minister ought not to recommend a person to an office for which he did not think him fully qualified—(Cheers)—and, Sir, in choosing a Speaker, we did not think that we could make some saving by appointing a person who might have a pen sion, but we chose that person for the office whom we thought most fit for it; and such being the case with our selves, perhaps we should permit to the Crown the same discretion. But with respect to the Coasptrolieethip of the Exchequer, the affair was originally intended for Lord Auckland, who then held an appointment at Greenwich Hospital, and that he might be able to occupy it, a clause was introduced into the Act, empowering the Comptroller to hold two offices, but having been objected to, it was withrawn agreeably to the sense of the House. This was the arrangement originally made, and it has been said that no man was fit for this appointment. I entirely agree with that, but Lord Auck land was called to another destiny. He had since been appointed Governor-General of India, and however the office of Comptroller of Excheqner may have been filled, I do not regret that he has been called to office in that country over which he so worthily and successfully rules.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The office upon this was offered and accepted by Sir J. Newport, and it does seem to me that he was as fit a person as could be found to fill it, and it is not an easy office to fill; however, that forms no part of the present question. Having gone, therefore, into the question respecting the grant to Sir J. Newport, there is nothing, I think, in the charge of the Right lion. Gentleman. Ido not think it desirab;e, as a general principle, that the Comptroller of the Exche quer should look forward to a pension ; but I think the ease of Sir John Newport, his various and long services—his life prolonged to so great an age, and the stale of his circumstances, do form sufficient grounds for granting him one. The Right Hoe. Gentleman alluded to another subject—indeed to any ra ther than the resolutions, in answer to what my Noble Friend, with regard to the Government "showing fight" noon the subject, and alluding to two questions on which the Government were in a minority. But there was an other question which the Right Hon. Gentleman entirely omitted.—(Cheers.) The Right Her. Baronet who brought forward early in the Session a regular onset, in which the Government did not refuse to "show fight," on which Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite produced every thing that could be ransacked during the last five yeers against the Government, and which amounted to the ap pointment of two or three Magistrates, and one or two promotions which he did not approve of; bat I must say, that his dish was as meagre as that of a French cook, who was not allowed to use meat, but obliged to form his cooking of very slender materials.—( Laughter.) Cer tainly, with little to say he made an admirable speech, and produced a great effect upon his own side of the House, out the result was, that after four nights debate he was completely defeated in every point.--( Loud cheers.) That was not a question of returns, not of meagre and ge neral resolutions, but whether or not tire present Govern• .rent possessed the confidence of this House. That was the plain and irteiligible proposition brought forward. 1 thought lion. Gentlemen opposite were so far improved that they meant to say they did not mean to harass us on little points—they did not mean to take advantage, but :)lainly to put the qucvtion, whether the Government had the confidence of this House, or the Tory party ? That was the question plainly put, and to that question the answer was unfavourable; and, therefore, the Right Hon. Gen tleman, or those who were now acting with him, after all other attempts, now made that which could contribute to hurt the feelings of an old man, who had performed emi nent services to his country._( Cheers.) All matters of this kind were brought iv iy.tdeh f teeh o hnge r la.t w i.tgont a hurgo r eso d eea:rot b .o, ecyr y rgsvite g ehrpt e (e: n cc,l u e uujents n nei t torwt e l sren n y:: wc.Th whichhto h o (rwc ifjl w ioui Ne h il vdc en it sow hen ( ) ) e ffi f : lr t , g h (f)oh,ztut.agedilli PEEL Fi i t t t : e iL d i c e o r i‘ s n ab . not vet spiritless, or however ble Lord might deem the resolutions moved by his Hon. Friend, it was perfectly evident that he did not consider the speech of his Right Hon. Friend who had preceded him as eitln,r pointless, or spiritless, or gingerly.— (Cheers.) It scented to have had the effect of c..orupletek obliterating from the memory of the Noble Lord not only All recollection of the services rendered by his Right Hon. Friend, but of the many occasions on which the Noble Lord himself had borne testimony to the value of those ser vices. He recollected having hoard the Noble Lord de clare that the day of his separation from his Right Hon. Friend was the mcst painful day of his life, on account of .he value of those services which the Noble Lord now bought it decent to depreciate.—( Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord had said to-right that his Right lion. Friend, .then one of his own colleagues, had shrunk from the excution of his public duty. Now, he would ask, was there the slightest foundation for that assertion ? Cheers.) Who was selected as the ass'stant of the Noble Lord in the preparation of the Reform Act ?—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Was it not his Right Hon. Friend ?—( Continued cheering.) Did the Noble Lord now deny the services that had been rendered Right lion. Friend ? Did he deny the merits of ieiz Right lion. Friend as fiist Lord of the Admiralty ? Lord JOHN RU SSE L L—Oh, no. Sir IL PEEL—Oh, no? What did the Noble Lord mean then, by saying that he had shrunk from his duty as a member of the Got ernc.:ent ?—( Cheers.) Who re formed the civil department of the Navy ? Who v. ol credit for the great swing which had been made in the Navy Estimates ? The whole Government. Did the) mean to deny the mrrit that was due to his IliAht Hon. Friend, for having eff2eted those savings and reforms ? ( Cheers.) Oh, he was retiring the recollection of the Noble Lord as to some of aose services. To whom war. (lite the merit of haring relOrrinal the very department now under consideration ? These were some of the ser vccs cf his Right Hon. Friend. Who was it that, beitp burdened with 0:c labcurs of a most important office, hat', yet found time to reform the Exchequer ? He who hit. b , en accused of having shrunk from the execution of his official duty had fund time to reform the whole depart. ment which he had the control over, the issue of the public money.—( Cheers.) Who had reformed the regu. lations regarding the granting of all pensions for civil ser vicch? Why, his Right Pon. Friend.—(Cheers.) Anti yet the Noble Lord, forgettinff all his past acknowledg ments of his Right Hon. Friend's public services, bar' stated that his R'ght hon. Friend had shrunk from the execution of his public duty. He would tell the Noble Lord what his Right Hon. Friend had shrunkhad shrunk f rom noffiee—(Loud cheerirg)—he had shrunt-. from office in vindication of his principles.—( Continued checiing.) Rather than consent to base his ztiples involved by cons nting t the Appropria tion Clause ( Lnud e h r ering)— that clause by which he (Sir Robert Peel) had be en driven from th e (Ake he held at a subsequent period— 'is Right Hon. Fri, rd had shrunk from office— ( L , :ud cheering)_and perhaps it was that seeing the place which in vindication of those prineples his Right lion. Friend now occupied, might account, in sonic degree, for th e irritation which the Noble Lord had on this occa sion exhibited.—( Loud, and long continued cheering.) The Noble Lord in the course of his speech had referred to the pensions which ha, been granted to o ther individual- , had rea d a li st o f t h ew ; t h e N o bl e L or d must surel know the co m pl e t e di st i nct i on b etween pensions granted t o the holders of offices under an Act of Parliament autho rising th e gran ti ng o f pens i ons f ur di st i nct pu b is service ,- , and pensi ons granted (ruin the Civil List. The Noble Lord had compl a i ne d o f hi s Ri g h t H on . F r iend for refer- Mg to Lord Monteagle in his absence; but notwithstand ing this complaint, the occasion was too tempting to t!; , .. Noble Lord, and hecouH not avoid referring to Mr. Croker in his absence. —(Ch eers . ) Although he admitted that G en tl eman h a d twenty veers of official service, (Sir EL Peel) to Rey the Noble L or d sa id h e co uld not for his life see what M r . C ro k er h a d d one to e ntitle him to a pension. The N o bl e L or d must a ll ow hi m that if, during teat long period of twenty y ears, he had . made that remark in e Mr. Croker's presence , h e w o uld have received such en ;'.nswer as would have made him ur willing to r e p eat hi s attac k .— ( Loud cheers.) But ail these pensi ons stood on perfectly distinct and sepa rate grounds. The power to the Crown to grant these per aions for length of services had been conferred on the abo lition of certain si necure o ffi ces , t h e appointment to which was in the Croll and in consideration of th i s a bolitinn, power had been con f erre d on t h e Crown of granting cer '7, min pensions after a certain length of service. This Cull. duct was rather ungrateful in the Noble Lord, who mtPt ; have had opportunities of estimating the services of those ; I who were employed in denartmenta which might be con sidered comparatively subordinate. Alter twenty years devoted to the civil services of the country, although he might not be able to enter into the political debates in that House, surely an individual was entitled to a recompence for his services; and there was not one of those persons to whom the Noble Lord bad referred, who hal not gained his pen ; shin by the devotion of his best facalties during the greater portion of his life to the execution of the public service of h-s country.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord had complained of an attempt to divert the attention of the House from the proper subject in debate, and had expressed his desire that the debate should be confined to that subject, and, encou raged by his precept rather than by his example, he would endeavour to confine•hia attention solely to the matter now ' before the House. Ile would repeat, as he had done on the last occasion that this s ibject was before the House, that he would be the last man in the world to attempt to depreciate from the merits of Sir John Newport. He ad mitted his great abilities. and he admired the high integ rity of his character.—( Cheers.) He sl:ould be unwilling to deprive him of any reward which his serv i ces m i g ht have merited, and he should not be unWillirna to grant a pension to him if it were proposed to do so. But the Noble Lord had no right to shelter the Government behind the character of Sir John Newport— ( Chem s)—and from that position to show fight, as the Noble Lord called it.—(Cheers.) When a question arose as to the public conduct of the Government, were they to be drivan from that question by the Government, saying, " Don't ask us that question for fear of embittering the last years of the life of a worthy man ?" The conduct of the Government was fairly open to question—and if it were truly the caae that the consideration of the question would so.embiiter the last years of a worthy man, the Govern ment were responsible for it.—(Cheers.) The question was a question as to the conduct of the Executive Govern ment and as to whether they had acted properly in grant ing, a pension to a person holding the office in question. The resolution of his Hon. Friend affirmed two principles; I at. That the office of Comptroller of the Exchequer ought, on account of the peculiar nature of its duties, to be inde pendent of the Crown. Could any man deny that the eb_ sect of Parliament in instituting the office in question was ;ei free it from any dependence on the Crown? What said the Act of Parliament ? The Act which had been brought in by his Right Hon. Friend, the founder of this office, for the regulation of Pensions. It enacted that the Crown should have the power of granting pensions for certain services. There was, however, one office exempted, anti only one, by name.—(Cries of " No, no," from the Minis terial benches.) No ! there were other classes of offices exempted, but only one office was named, and that was this particular office. The 15th clause of the Act demon strated this, and the only office specially named was this very office of Comptroller of the Exchequer. Now, what svas the meaning but this ? that the office should be kept not only independent of party, but that the owner of it should have no hope of favcur from the Crown. There ass another and an analarrous provision in the Act which was that the Crown should not be able to appoint the per -on holding this office to any other situation to be heid luring the pleasure of the Crown, anti that he could only be removed by an address of either House of Parliament. It was evidently the intention of Parliament in framing that Act, that the holder of that office should not look to the Crown for any favour. The Noble Lord could not deny ,list the Crown h-tl no power of granting this pension under the Act of Parliament, and therefore he had granted it on the Civil List. The Noble Lord admitted that this case ought not to be drawn into a pre sedent. Now, he either differed from the resolution, and Thought the granting a pension to a Comptroller of the Exchequer defensible, or that this case ought not to be drawn into a precedent. If he thought the holder of that office clearly entitled to a pension, why did he not meet .he resolution with a direct negative ?—( Cheers.) He did not do so; he met it with another resolution, which he asked the House to adopt. Now, what was that resolu tion? Let them consider for a moment what was the pre amble to the Act for the limitation of the granting of pen sions. That Act imposed no restriction, it merely pro vided that until the Pension List should be reduced below a certain amount, no pensions should be granted of a greater amount, in certain casts, than 3001. a year--that in no case, until that happened, should any pension be granted amounting to more than 600/. a year—and that every information on the subject of those pensions should 'ee laid before Parliament ; but when the amount of :he Pension List was reduced below 90.0001., a free ind unlimited discretion of granting pensions reverted to he Crown. and there was no necessity for laying those pensions before Parliament. If they had read the speech ,f Mr. Burke they would have found that Mr. Burke had :aid that he could not control the exercise of the prero [ gative, but that he could control the amount, and PS long is the Pension List was below that amount, there was no nich limitation enacted in ;he Act of Parliament. Now, .at least, he hoped the Noble Lord, if he succeeded in aarrying the first part of his resolution, would put it into such a form as not to bring discredit on the House by the manner in which it was to be entered on the Journals. He now came to the second resolution of the Noble Lord, which lie considered to be the most important. The Noble Lord said that this case ought not to be drawn into a precedent. Now it was not proposed to deprive Sir John Newport of his pension—if , t were attempted to do so he should oppose it; and if that pension had been proposed by a special application to Parliament, he for one should have voted for it. He was rather surprised at the resolution proposed by the Honourable Gentleman opposite. He (Sir Robert Peel) had said, the other night, that in such a ease as this, Parliament ought to be appealed to. Now, notwithstanding all that had been said by the Noble Lord, he was still of opinion that, in case of special rind peculiar Parliamentary services, entitling a man to a public reward, it was batter that Parliament should give that reward in the special case. He was surprised that .he Noble Lord had not recollected that the pension which :nits been granted to Mr. Grattan had not been granted ay the Crown, but by Parliament. Mr. Pitt's debts lied been paid off by a Parliamentary grant, and when he said duet he theught that Parliamentary services might in a snecial case entitle a person rendering those services to a Parlia anantary provision, lie thought that those services ought to be of a nature so peculiar and so extraordinary, that the ;rant could not be made a matter of party consideration, nut that there should he one universal recognition of the value of those special services to entitle the party to ouch pension. He was not afraid of this power being *bused by Parliament, he thought it more likely that ;he Crown should exercise its influence improperly Than that that power should be abused by Parliament. They had provided that the whole amount of the pensions which the Crown could grant to literary and scientific men was 1,2001. a year, and they were now giving five-sixths of that sum to a Government servant. That, however, was decidedly contrary to the intentions of the Act; and he would appeal to every man in the House, if, supposing when he had come into office in 1835—be would ask the question of those who were opposed to him—if, when he wad come into office in 1835, while the resolution he had referred to was fresh in the mind of every one, which limited that grant of 1,2001. a year, providing it as a re ward /or literary and scientific merit—if he had done what the Government was now about doing, and f he had taken five-sixths of the sum, and given it as a pension to some gentlemen on his side of the House who had retired from the service of Parliament —if he had created a vacancy in an office which should be independent of the Crown in order to grant that pension ( Hear)--if he had effected the vacancy in order to facilitate a political arrangement—( Opposition cheers)—if he had ,lone that, he asked them whether, by an immense majority rrom that side of the House, they would not have condemned that act in much stronger language than that of the reso lutions before the House. They would not be content with saying that this case should not be drawn into a pre cedent. But would they not have said that that had been a violation of the independence of the office of Comptroller at the Exchequer, and that that had been an absorp ion for party and' political purposes of five sixths of the sum which they bad allowed as the only reward sf literary and scientific merit? The most moderate resolution he would then have expected, and which he was sure would have been carried with acclamation by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, if they could have carried it at sll, would be, not that the grant should not be drawn into a precedent, but that an address should be presented to the Crown for the purpose of removing him from office.— ; Cheers.) That, he believed, was the course they would lave followed ; and he asked them now to be so far con- Is!rnt as to refuse the grant, while they acknowledged hat it could not be drain into a precedent. Ho would e•ll them that they could not put a 'mit to the power of he Government, if they once allowed the precedent o pass.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If they assented to the mcndment, they would recognise the power in he has performed public duties ? Sir, I hope I have performed my promise, in abstaining from personsl considerations, and adverting only to public grounds. We have the admission of the Noble Lord that this ought not to be drawn into a precedent. I ask the House to have the courage and the manliness to vote that it shall not, and thus provide against the possibility of undermining the independence of an office, the integrity and independence of which arc essent'al to the proper issue and control of the public • funds.—( Loud cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose, and said—Sir, I wish, as much as possible, to con fine the attention of the House to that which is the real state of the question, and not to be led into those topics which my Right Hon. Friend opposite so dexterously in , troduced—(Cheers)—l cannot help thinking, rather with the view cf catching some stray votes,—( Cheers. ) Nei ther do I think it necessary to go into the attacks he has made on the whole financial administration, or answer the accusation made against my Noble Friend ; all I will say is, that he often heard of it while in office— that he was rather less inclined then to defend his friends than he now is to attack them.—(Cheers.) Now the the Right Hon. Baronet has first dwelt or. the necessity for the independence of the office of the Comptrollership I heard laid down, for the first time, the principle that persons holding that office arc incapable of being pen sioned off. Ido not find it in the Report of the Commis sioners who examined into the whole question, nor in the Act itself. Then, Sir, the Assistant-Comptroller, in the absence of his principal, often necessarily protracted, has much responsibility and authority as the Comp troller, yet the Assistant-Comptroller, it is not denied, may be pensioned off. But, Sir, if I wished for an analogous case to show that the conduct of the Govan ment cannot justly be conridered on this new principle, I should take the case of the Auditors of the Excheo,uer, whose independence of the Crown I think fully as im nortant as that of the Comptroller of the Exchequer. Why, the Auditor had the control of expenditure of So me-set House in the first place, and they were appointed for life—and they were Parliamentary officers—not officers of the Crowns—( Hear.) They had also important ju• diciul powers. They had the power of taking evidence upon oath.--( Hear.) They audited the accounts of the Treasury. If therefore there was a case analogoos to that of the Comptroller of the Exchequer, and in which 'his principle now contended for ought to be applied, it was that of the auditors of public accounts, and yet they constantly received retiring allowances. When the Right Hon. Baronet was in office, he gave, and he (the Chan csllor of the Exchequer) admitted, most deservedly, a re tiring allowance to one of those Gentlemen. He contended, therefore, that there were no reasons, eitho r in the Act of Parliament or in analogous oiliest, for the House to suppose that the office of Comptroller of the Exchequer was one in which this important constitutional principle was involved, and which precluded the Crown from taking into consideration au), other services than such as were performed in that office. The Right Hon. Baronet who spoke before his Noble Friend, stated that "if her Ma jesty's Ministers had given the pension to Sir John New port before he accepted the office, lie should not have quarrelled with it, such was his respect for that Right Hon. Baronet, and his knowledge of his services." He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) called upon the Gen tlemen opposite to show upon what ground of analogy they ventured to say that the claim which Sir John Newport had in 1834 was forfeited by his not applying for a pension, which would then most deservedly be ;ranted, and by his showing a willingness, on the contrary, to continue to give his services to the country in a most important office.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Ba ronet attacked the amendments of his Noble Friend be cause they included the words of Mr. Burke, which were not enacting words, and were therefore of no importance. But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would ask were these words introduced into the Act and was there no reason for adopting them ? Were they mere surplusage ? Or was it not the intention of Parliament that they should be a guide to future Governments as to tho persons whom they should recommend to the Crown as deserving of pensions?— ( Hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet said they only formed part of the preamble. But in the Act of Victoria they were more conclusive and stringent; and yet the House was now required to say that those words were to have no weight in the Act.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Ba ronet had commented on some (as he thought) in consistencies of his Honourable Friend, because he objected on a former night to give Sir John Newport a pension from the Crown instead of by a Parliamentary vote. If his Hon. Friend had changed his opinion, he tad the very good authority of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, for that change. In 1834 it was proposed to place those pensions under the control of Parliament, upon which the Right Hon. Baronet said, n I am, however, quite averse to allowing such a power to reside in this House. A popular assembly never wisely interfered with the distribution of patronage"—( Hear, hear)--" and no instance can be found in history, either remote or proximate, of this House having wisely exer cised the powers of the Executive.") He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought that those words peculiarly applied to the present question.—(Cries of " Divide.") The Right Hon. Baronet continued in these words:— " I think the House of Commons too much governed by impulse, for the just exercise of such a right. Hear that tinder certain circumstances it would give too much, whereas under the influence of other considerations, it would be swayed by circumstances of the moment—and neglect public services of the highest value. I cannot help thinking that under the influence of temporary cir cumstances, Hon. Gentleman might be induced to over look services of the highest moment." There was only one other point to which ho wished to advert—that was. the amount of the pension. The Right lion. Baronet said there was only 1,200/. to distribute in pensions for services of merit, and that, in the present case, 1,0001. had been given to one individual. Now, he, (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) must say in the first place, that the power of the Crown was not exhausted by the grant—( Hear)—and that whenever claims of literary or philosophical merit were presented, there still remained a sufficient sum to meet them.— ( Hear.) He hoped the House would not be deluded with the impression that because 1,0001. had been spent in the year out of the 1,2001., the Crown had not a reserve which would be applied to this purpose. The Right Hon. Baronet seemed also to forget the argument he made in the case of Prince Albert. On that occasion the Right Hon. Gentleman contended that there was no analogy be tween the allowance to the Queen Dowager and that to be given to the Prince, because the Prince was in his youth and was likely to receive it for a long period of years, whereas her Majesty the Queen Dowager was ad vanced in life. Sir R. PEEL made some observation which was not heard in the Gallery. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not surprised that the Right Hun. Baronet was disinclined to hear his own arguments repeated.— ( Laughter.) But when he complained that the enormous proportion of five-sixths of the entire sum which the Crown had to dispense in the year was given ; as a reward for political services, to one individual, he should re member that the receiver of the pension was of a very ad vanced ag,e, and was not likely to enjoy it for a long term of years—and that Sir John Newport was not likely long to honour the Pension List with his name. His Noble Friend had not referred to the political pensions on the list in any unfair manner. He had said that he was not a fit judge of the merits of those who received them, as he titd not acted under the same Governments with them ; hut that no less pension than that received by Sir John Newport was given for political services. —(Cries of " Divide.") He begged the House to consider the admis sion of the Right Hon. Baronet, that if the pension had peen granted before Sir J. Newport accepted the office of Comptroller of the Exchequer, the Government would have done right. He bogged the House to recollect that it was admitted that this was not an unfair exercise of the prerogative of the Crown—and he asked, would they come to a vote of censure upon the Govern ment which gave, and upon Sir John Newport who accepted, the pension, against the essential propriety of which there had not been ene argument ?—( Hear.) Mr. HUME rose amidst cries of " Divide, divide," He said, that having been alluded to, he could not allow the discussion to be closed without stating his opinion to ee that both sides had taken a wrong course. It he was called upon to vote either for the original motion or the amendment, he felt that he should be compelled to vote for loth.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman who had pro posed the original resolution did not apply his speech to. it. If the Hon. Gentleman meant a vote of censure to bs passed upon Lord Monteagle, neither his speech nor the resolution went to that. Therefore it was that he did not know how to ect. If it was intended to blame any party, he thought they ought to have been brought before the House by name. The Right Honourable Baronet had _ . l uestion on the part of the Crown, e In the first place, with not been so fortunate in his dates, as he had been strong every respect for the character and every acknowledgment in his reasoning. because he said, if in 1835 be bad of the services of Sir J. Newport, he hoped and trusted made such an appointment, what would have been the con that the House would not establish the principle of coming sequences ? Now the Right Hon. Baronet must have to a vote of thanks in favour of a civil officer of the Crown known that the law did not exist at that time, vetich gave couched in mornglowing terms than had been ever used to her Majesty the power o f granting pensions every year towards any military officer.—( Hear, hear.) They could to the amount of 1,2001. That law did not pass till 1837. proceed then from precedents. They had not done so in The Right Hon. Baronet must bear in mind that the Corn the case of either Mr. Fox, or of Mr. Pitt. He did net miteee to which allusion had been made, had reported that recollect any single it.stance in which the House of Corn- no pension ought to be placed on the Civil Li,t, and in his mons had put on record such a recognition of civil (Mr. flume's) opinion, no man was entitled to receive services as they were . doing now.--( Hear, hear.) pub!ic reward without receiving it openly.—( Hear, hear, But the Noble Lord sneered at my Right Hon. Friend, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet knew that who, ho says, shrunk from his public duty, but who really it was quite an accideut that 1,2001. was proposed, saved more money to the public than almost any other man. hneause when that sum was proposed by the Noble Is not this inconsistent ? But it is said that Sir *John Member for Aberdeen, an objection was taken by the Newport exerted himself to restrain unnecessary expense, Right Hon. G ntleman that so small a sum was not in to promote education, and improve the intercourse between tended to recompense political services. He considered Great. Britain and Ireland. Why, those are duties which that the doctrines 1 aid down by the Noble Lord the every public man ought to perform— (Cheers)—and ought Secretary for Ireland, and (Weeded by the Noble Lord never to entitle him to the special thanks of those cots- the Member for Stroud, held out an inducement to every nested with him.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The conclusion man to look' forward to reward for political services.— was, in the amendment of the Noble Lord, that, " Con- ( Hear, hear.) With respect to the rem nal of Sir J. sidering that Sir John Newport was not in affluent cir- I Newport and the appointment of Lord Monteagle, it was cumstances when he received the ofnee, this House is (perhaps unfortunately) supposed that the vacancy was satisfied that the grant to the pension, to the retired Comp- emitted on purpose to enable the Government to support troller of the Exchequer, cannot be drawn into a prece- Loll Monteagle, and all that ho had to regret was that dent ;" not even that, however, absolutely, for it went on such was not the case lied not been stated in more distinct "in favour of persons who have not just claims on the terms. He should hsve wished to have seen a letter Royal benifieenee, or who are not distinguished by the showing the date when the application was mode. performance of duties to the public." I venture to say I because that would have removed all doubts and suspicions that you will, by timing for this amendment, be g i v i ng a respecting the transaction. He could assure the Noble direct Parliamentary sanction to this precedent, for no Lord that the whole transaction was denominated a job, doubt, every p erson i n f u t ure a ppointed to the Comoro!. and it wits supposed to be done purposely to favour Lord lership of th e Ex c h equer w ill h a ve been a person of some Monteagle. That was the supposition, and the great -Activity and talent in public life ; and therefore may it not difficulty was, to remove that from the public mind.— be said of such persons in future, that they have just claims I ( Hear, hear.) He felt bound, thee efure, to vote for the on the Royal beneficence, and have been distinguished by original motion.—( Hear, hear.) the performance of duties to the public—( Hear, hear)— i Lord JOHN RUSSELL made a few observations in and that the Crown might be perfectly satisfied, on these w di a y s id f e rn ,' p ' single whichex observationisted i in thatth e House,it fell fro from t explanation, but in consequence of the cries of " Divide, o a s n si d ble th t e o co c r alc u h sio a n grounds, to grant the retiring allowance ?—( Hear, hear.) Why, they may take my lion. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Colonel Sibtborp) arid say, Look to the say- the Noble Lord. ings he has made—look to etie returns he has moved for— Mr. DUNCOMBE—Sir, the question is, how are we (Laughter) —look to the Commisei nit he has opposed. —to deal with this job? It it ' were -. possible , foryou, c b o e n- e . (Laughter.) By one blow he saved 20 0001. a year to the ' sistently with the farms ofth o e ffb House, to put the Member three country.—( Cheers and laughter.) Why not give him a i propositions—the proposition Hon. . . reward for his ~ great pu bli c ser vices ?"—( Loud laughter.) , Durham, the proposition of the Noble Lord the Member I ask any Me m b er , if t hi s amen dment would not be esta. for Yorkshire, and also the proposition of the Hon. Mer blishing a di rect sanct i on f o r the grant of pensions from h er f or Kilkenny, T. should have th e greates t satisfaction the Civil Li s t t o any person who fills the office of Comp- i n vot i ng against the three. —(Cheer - s, and laughter.) troller of the Exchequer, on the simple affirmation that There never were three mere absurd propositions ; but if London : Printed and Published by 31IJRDO YOlllSl' e No. 112, Strand; at The Sten Office, No. 11n, r.-trand, it t county of „Iliddlesex.—Friday, February 28, 1840. one proposition is more absurd than the other, as far as the public are concerned, it is the proposition of the Hon. Member fce Kilkenny.—( Hear, hear.) I do not know whether there are strangers in this House or not, but it is generally assumed there are no strangers in this House ; and assuming there are no strangers in this House, but if peradventure there should be any, I would address them foe their satisfaction, and I would say, in order that it may go forth to the public, that the whole of this debate has nothing to do with the public interests. —(Hear, hear.) I want to know whether any pro- Pos ;tieo that has been made to this H ouse , .sither by "iffy Honourable Friend below me ( Mr. Hume), whether by my Hon. Friend the Member for Durham, or by the Hon. .Mernher for the \lest Riding of Y or k s hi r e, would save the public parse one shilli ng ?—(Cheers.) Far from it. The only conclusion th a t a ll th e p art i es h ave come to, excepting' the Hon. Member f or Kilk enny , w h o additional into the p u bli c purse— proposes to p u t 1,200.' ( Laughter)—it all ends ..nil concludes in the motion of that this pe ns i on t o Si r the Hon. Member for D iti .`'acn, Jplin Newport ought no t t o L a drawn into a p reee d snt. — ( the Memb er f or Y or k s hi re Hear, hear.) The N Isle Lord . Right sa sot: Tams says it cannot he dr awn i n t o a terecedent. Theworth Honourable Baron e t the M em b er • er the House nor • do not trust to th at —l recommen d tw i ts the public to trust to that, for, depend upon it, what this House says cannot and ought not to be drawn into a pre cedent, perhaps in the next Session, a Tory Admtoistasstion, which in all probability will suceesel the present, would .say, " What have we to do with ought not or cermet ? Tilts is a precedent that has been established, and we will re-- peat it whenever we think proper." But look at the worst lag of the proposition• of my Honourable Friend. He saes " Considering all these circumstances, and more especially the great importance of ket ping eke Comptroller General of the Exchequer independent the intim rice of the Crown—( Hear, hear, from the Con servatives ) Hear, hear 1—( Laughter.) I want to know whether Gentlemen on that side of the House wish to keep office independent of the influence of the Crown. In what reign did that commence? Did it commence in the reign of George 111., or in the reign of George IV., or in the reign of William IV. No ; it has been reserved for the reien of Queen Victoria, for the Tories to come forward and sly, the influence of the Crown ought to be diminished. —s Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke says, " I have the greatest regard for Sir John Newport—the motion has nothing to do with Sir Jobe Newport, it is a direct vote of censure on her Majesty's Government." Why do you not say so? —( Cheers.) Why do you not say this is unworthy of her Majesty's present Ministers, and state on the face of your motion that this is a gross job, and then I will agree with you.—( Loud cheers.) Do not evade the question in the way you are doing. I shoald like to ask Hon. Gentlemen who were in Parliament in 1830, whether they recollect a motion that was made by Sir Robert Heron? Do they recollect the names of Dundas and Bathurst ?—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Do they recollect the pension that was propceed . to be given by the Tories of those days? Hoes did the Chancellor of the Exchequer then defend it? We have got now on our paper that Sir John Newport, after fifty years' service, is entitled to his pension ; and I have not heard any individual get up and say he is not en titled to a pension.—( Cheers.) If he is not, put the mo tion on the real grounds, and propose a vote of censure.— ' (Cheers.) I agree with the Noble Lord, although per. haps his expression was not the most elegant, that you have opposed this measure in the most gingerly ma n ner.—(Laughter.) How did the Chancellor of the Ea'. chequer, in 1830, defend the proposition of a pensions to Mr. Bathurst and Mr. Dundas ? I have no doubt it is very inconvenient to Hon. Gentlemen opposite to recollect it; but he said, " As to the precise nature of : the service of these individuals, I am not prepared to answer.—(Great laughter.) I think it is rather unfor tunate the length of their service has not been stated in the estimate, but I believe their service was of about four years' duration, the appointment having taken place in 1825." I think, SW., this is a mere vote of faction. Whether one side or the other succeeds must be a matter . of indifference to the public.—( Hear, hear, hear.) As I said before, my Hon. Friend the Member for Kilkenny's proposition is the most ridiculous, but I shall certainly give my vote in favour of those whose Ad.- ministration I think most beneficial.—(Laughter.) Mr.. WYNNE wished to offer a few observations in 1 explanation of the vote be was about to give, as he differed from those with whom he generally acted. He believed that Sir J. Newport was entitled to the pen sion in question according to the strict and fair interpre tation of the Act which had been referred to ; and ho would only say that he would not go further than the words.. of the Act might lead him. He saw by that Act that the Crown might grant pensions on the Civil List to such persons as might have just claims to such a favour.— ( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) The Act continued to say that all were entitled to such a pension who had merited the gracious consideration of their Sove reign and the gratitude of the country. He did not think that services rendered in Parliament should be excluded from this benefit. He did not think that Mr. Burke was less entitled to the pension that had been granted him, because he had held a Ministerial office for a few months only at a time. He did not think that the claims of Mrs. Fox or of Mrs. Tierney were the less merited because Mr. Fox and Mr. Tierney had not held office long.—( Hear, hear.) He had himself had an opportunity of witnessing the ser vices of Sir J. Newport, and he felt it to be his duty to bear his testimony to them.—( Hear, hear.) He did not know any one who had more zealously discharged his duties during the whole of his Parliamentary career. He was not prepared to say that the grant should not be formed into a precedent for future grants. if similar individuals might hereafter require them. But it hadbeen said that i Sii.J. Newport had held the office ofComptroller of the Exchequer, and was thereby disqualified from receiving a pension. Now he perfectly agreed with those who thought that the holding of that office did not give a claim to the favour, but that having had that claim previously, the fact of having held such an office should not deprive him of it,—( Hear, hear.) What was the object of the Act of Parliament ? Its object was to prevent any one from holding a pension while he filled the office in question, and that the office should give no claim to a pension. But if a per son who had been previously entitled to a pension were ap. pointed to the Comptrollership of the Exchequer, was he thereby to lose the claim which he already possessed ? He, for one, should not think that fair. On those grounds, and after having attentively listened to the whole of the debate, he felt it his duty to vote for the amendment of the Noble Lord. Mr. LIDDEL L said that he should not have again troubled the House, had it not been for an observation which had come from the Hon. Member for Finsbury. That Hon. Member had used the to quoque argument to that side of the House, and had referred to what be had termed a job in former times on the part of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Goulburn).—(Hear.) Now he (Mr. Liddell) had ever acted in the House as an independent Member, and, he would say, that of all the transactions of the Government of the Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington), there was none which redounded more to his credit than that to which the Hon. Member for Finsbury had referred.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh.") What were the real circumstances of that transaction ? The Duke of Wellington, with that zeal for the public service, end that spirit of economy which had always characterised his ex reer, cut off on finding that he could do so consistently whir the due discharge of the public service, two offices held by Mr. Bathurst and Mr. Dundas. Instead of making a job of that transaction SS otl.ers had done. he had cut off two offices held by sons of Members of his own Cabinet, and which offices had, up to that period, been inxariably held for life. After having done that be had proposed small retiring pension to those individuals subject to the 1 - )piobation of Parliament, bat which Parliament, in its wisdom, though not perhpps in itt; justice, had thought fit to withhold. After the explanation he had given he would conclude by asking the House if there were any justice in census ing such a transaction ?—( Hear, hear.) The House then divided, rnd the numbers were— ._ , -- ----------•-- Fur the motion 240 For the amendment Majority The other Orders of the Day acre then disposed of, and :he !louse adjourned. THE MARKETS. COUNTRY MARKETS. teat. Barley. I Onts. I P.-Fe Per Owlet. j s. to s. Bath thandforti 63 70 Bridpart Cti Guard CO 18 Gloucester C4 76 Ele er I. s. Is.tos.ls. to s. :33 N) 20 OR 43 56 32 48 30 20 40 50 2 6 51 120 I 20 20 5n 45 48 I:0 34 141 43 27 34121 28 x 40 - 40 /0 26 34 4 41 32 50 21 32 42 52 35 47 23 34 40 53 40 50 no 34 44 !'.O 42 58 30 50 142 48 33 54 00 34 4$ 50 37 43 24 32 36 53 27 38 50 5e . 27 ,itt Guildford ~.—.' Newbury 50 81 Reading.,...-- 50 85 ialisbury 56 77 Shtrborne l'2 7$ Shepton Mallet 56 81 Uxbridge W:nniustor 52 7.) Winchester 61 76 Yeovil 164 72 40 45 .50321 46 50 • LEEDS CORN MARKET.— Feb. 25. Alheat, Norfolk and Suflidk, 61b. .. ...................... 635. to 77.i.1 York. and Lincoln. 61.9 b. Yorkshire atid Lincolnshire 353. to nip:. Grinding 3 , ,•ans Jats, Potatoe 265. to 31a. • Shelling--Mealing, For. --it. to—d ............. Eng. tad. to 14 kith. per It"' ......................................................... 36 to 375. pet load GUILDFORD MARKET, Wheat, Old (Per Load) 101. to •;(1/. s.— tr, 161. to M. hs. Barley (Per Qr.) ...... s . to 465. Banes (Per Qr.) 4os. to 4U 2 1 . y 4 Rye 40 41 38 46 Grey Pease, 428. to 445. DEVIZES CORN MARKET. Per S ack , f. & s. d. Per Quarter. R. 4. P. First Wheat '4OOlO 42 0 )ats 2O oto :It ( , econd ......... ..... :44 ti Be (per sack) •10 0 at 0 Third .......... ••••..... 27 0 fill "loitr (per 1 % , 0 ley. ....... ......... la 0 45 1 3rsad t iler gall) h LADY'S GOLD NECK CHAINS may be selected from of several patterns, price, right of four sovereigns, Five Guineas; weight of five sovereigns, Si Guineas : weight of six sovereigns, Seven Guineas. The weight. is given by comparison with the weight of sovereigns, being more easily referred to than if stated in ounces and dwts. The quality of the Gold is warranted equal to any that is work into articles of this description. T. COX SAVORY, Goldsmith, Silversmith, Watchmaker, &c., 47, Cornhil (Seven Doors from Gracechurch-strect), London. N.B. Drawings will b- forwarded post free, if application be made post paid. 16ARRIED. On the 27th inst., at St. George's, Hanover-square, J" h° Willis Fleming, Esq. / late of the Grenadier Guards, and e lclett son of John Fleming, EN., of Stoneham-park, Southampto n. . to the Lady Katherine Elisabeth Cochrane, only daughter 01 the Earl and Countess of Dundonald. DIED. On the 19:h inst., Mrs. S usan C owper, relict o f the la te James Cott per, Esq., aged 70. E VEN ING 4:DIT or