The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-26 00:00:00

Natelitemmall — a ye , ()nob elth il giaal - f the,people of this country at present , ,_ er 1 3 3 , e s ehar motion and the amendment having been put re labour than they could bear, do; and yet the labourer could produce it' A f t ylkst Rl' said, that the hon. gentleman had introduced is reqeired for the support of himself u a , n ee p i . f rota .ader very disadvantageous circumstances. He and the otfelir 07 ktylic: If agricultural labour; in manufacture' r o tli, Ilise 4ss ni . akirig, however, that the question, should not be roduce was still-greater. It could be sh u ne ebio'4lelt p : p a ‘ ,_ His own opinion was made up on the subject, moment the working men consumed raea---h3ottetereueete con/Weise that that opinion, with reference 1 mutton than during the war, instead 0, _ t t he he ea ,e e Y, would be borne out by . any discussion that ;ht to he. He was . prepared to prove toe iie sl :ko tl), a 7 . d on. The effect of discussion would be to elicit d, daring the last 17 years, had been m i , e ' r thi°,,l e 'e b7,1! .° establish, a very different principle from that ive powers than it had - been during the v', 4 o ,:ber t y l 'tle er tt ` e ge hon. member ; therefore, he was the last man s great as if all the land north of the li u u lec t. 0 1 e 'lot f or a t aPt to prevent discussion, and he hoped that it into the sea. This was owing to the ner eio e f e e" s ea ,_.moment be thought that the course which he The condition of things was daily bee"Tector` o - e i ' (le ',„taut, in the slightest degree, to effect any sects better: labour was badly paid, OM" of ee esi e „ i t- t er, hear.) An hon. relation of the hon. member on with scarcely any profit, and in inai i Y a f 01: (i)r% e u t l, t ~had given. notice of a motion on our monetary If the manufacturer were a diminution an d 3 :, I t k 4 f d t noti 'CuesOuy, and another hon. member. had, given rce declined in the same proportion , :_ th irs, i tt . , ( ti ttl on after the recess for a committee to inquire interest, it could be shown that illtr i otoi h e 0 4 , 41 s Of the country. Here ample opportunities in the Thames were under mortgaere u g e7i r `for w , r ;l . ed for discussing all the hon. gentleman. had !le or would be foreclosed, as not Vi co rie t lp,'eted a i'' Ilis object was obviously and plainly aimed Le redemption. Look at the poor-rates, to oo t i ty ttst e at i the state of the currency. He would not go ey had been 17 years ago. It was "' se e, Vl ° itit e th ieugth the grounds on svhich he would resist any mount, in money, they had not inel ea,. oat ,0 4 . 1 % op, e existiug system, as he should do on another , of value supplied they were doubleseebeee:te,tei:Ortune Occasion. The hon. member had stated, I double the number of bushels of wheat a ; L eo Fa, io,s, that the act of 1819 was the cause of the. evils itig the war; and if the poor were relien t es eell,u_e fort He had not, however, stated what his remedy had been in war time, the amount in bl-D to tek t s o se hie e evils in our monetary , system, of which. he so quadrupled. The people were s tarvieg bo eo o l, e ' e s'aated. (Hear, hear.) 'those who argued that an r. Had we gained anything in foreiga ea e, Ve k ser e, a e tt le to take place, ought also to state what their nestic sacrifices and sufferings ? If wf4 t , e o ; t ie e 'teie. `f, what sort of change it was that they desired in with something like contentment. P ere l‘i c ee l o f,',Xistje?ecause it was very easy to declare that great o such honour. On the contrary, we f, - ie s e Oe carne the country—it was very easy to say that the id buffeted from. the Euxine to the na,t e . lAti t 7 4 ra a( f 4 eY was the cause of that distress; but unless even the lowest of our enemies in the •"",- a itt e .._ oa ~1 1 these assertions were ready to show how, by A been said in that house, bound l ee of, :,,lba rd ;ne currency, the distress could be remedied, it 1 ,000 to keep the peace; and it was not r e ths_;, 8 7,11, aa p know precisely what they meant. The hon. t said, as it once was by a statesman, 05 fru'," Li % to other hon. members, had several times during eked God for this bond, as it hinderee te albe 1 % 6 si , e ,at 4 fault with his Majesty's ministers because, in .What a situation for a country I Tbe j i , be I d i,.te ti e r pi cela, the country had not been described as being 1 by receiving £9O in gold for his £ 6o ' t e e fungi Oe e °, r ahle state of distress than ever it had before , could not contribute to a war, and, eto 1 , te e est e e pson why they did not state this was, because t, because it would reduce their £9O wereeac eie e eg i etig 4eve it to be the fact. (Hear, hear.) He knew ie causes it was, that as a nation, we nt io had' 4 t t o , e 'ell a man could say produced a worse effect, pillar by every blackguard and tyre W e e ►4 4 11 00i - ere odium and obloquy, than to endeavour to ;r.) After having been kept in SUSP el t e illg 1 ;0 , 1, , a ° be, e i r , that he was more prosperous than he fancied to-day, in despair to-morrow, —after ~ ? tit ~,, ,k ),,,,,5 t , e was quite aware that great distress existed me, "Wait, and things will get betten_ ts o f e e le t ee t e n _ the labouring classes of the country • but if any gricultural labourers broke out into betted is tlf o k ts 4 ■l. ( ,, it tl on him to say that the labouring Classes were matter of surprise ? It was impossible ).:0 r iet h ki lle tt . ',,r distress than ever they were before, he was id down as they were. The price Of %o re A IPl4ira". (Hear, hear.) He believed that there was gain, and these men would be o nce eelpie tv ess di Ilt., more work, at the present time, and conic ricks and the barns of their more we"' el he Al t °lt eitess, than at many former periods. (Hear.) and destruction must follow. We h a t here , ett 4 ,e.e . respect to a certain class considerable distress he prevalence of crime in Ireland; he t he I ,e , 0, ,, ,, e ,, alluded to the hand-loom weavers. (Hear.) lost of it grew out of the misery of te e e e tlut e vi, ltr eile of that distress was not to be traced to the state people ceased to find that protection fee ee ct ledte as d-Y t , but to the increase of machinery. (Hear.) y were entitled they would cease to re t sr a O t i t -i t , 4s cl tl i o s ,Es B , he admitted, but that distress, he con y been stated about three months age , 3 0 4 , klo B eg.., "rig to do with.the currency. It arose from rates from parishes in the metropoosia, tea se l " t ies euteyau s to the consideration of which it was, of was carried on without profit, and tl et• t cd 6 bo l!)cOe li on of that house to apply itself. (Hear, hear.) gon their capital. Ministers might / re d; b ige k !!vr ete jt'eallier said that the people of England were :s that these accounts were exa , r e a a clootsitNruitlier,ged state that they were looking with evil eyes ble of proof, and could be placed Gen e 0 0 1 , 0 1 1 16„ ti kio, t a nd wishing each other dead, in order that the e granted. In many other parts of t a ei"si tis e ' he t i r e ° ,.ssess himself of the property or whatever his. Lie were working early and late to earn Co o 0 tepid We s i t tt behind him, he did not, he could not, believe ;., and often not more than 4s. a-wee!• o e a dVe e ‘ t i eeliee.Possible that paupers, as they were described to that men thus circumstanced could h',. t 0 0 o i ,stq tt ', 38 d e :..ttny advantage from the destruction of persons was truly observed by Blackstone, the . a d e til e ?to .. etute as themselves? But he looked to the feel xpectecl where no protection was glve n ;,, a s a t il t ,te d at 11( r,!, and-he believed he knew enough of them to bered, and acted upon, that pro tection 00 th e " ieetteeeeglishman—that no number of Englishmen, ,e part of the government as allegiaa ° of tb .e j, rkiZar,)n, l ,, or ever could indulge, in so horrible a wish. Co the want of such protection inaitY, tree, s t rete ed eee hon. member had asserted that every la -1 yr had to deplore in Ireland could _ las te,,,, ed g e, e oto eour times as much as he consumed himself.— etu of money had rendered the, ii t e' Nee!! te e „ue the case where the labourer was fully em the mortgages on their estates, an r " epr ee ci Ott }ear round, and that had rarely been the case ad them to reduce their rents. They , :i, e te be' .e s o "? se t ne i • They had been told that tradesmen were they were obliged in turn to press on eteth o l l ; , , 4teetr sev ee'r capital, and that some of them had been e remembered, that the name of the t; , O V, i , ~it q esso e„ eral Years. Now, this assertion refuted itself ; cted with a measure—the bill of 181 you l 4 4, wee ou mewese forced to live on their capital for several ency. That measure was the eons thee' ° li ci c e t te t Wie en t le Clear that trade would soon be entirely anni se poor, and they now saw the c l el Me e ell e e a Peoeosition was made for a committee to in ere, the landlord who was to blarnee.,,i o , , i s i et . le t ete theemplaint of-distress, every man ought to apply rents without involving himself in Te o of eleastiees,, o ,,ease, and to ask whether the appointment of a his great change was made in the vo te d ivo;)Vii4;2lig it was not likely to increase that uistress instead surdens of the people had been red " d c oo:A i :N;( 1 0'1 wt :,,, If, upon consideration,. he thought that would have been common sense ° L os f i ltet t ilot t aut he increased by granting a committee, 3 make the change without this redueete 1 3 0 1 f et ttr iu s, be told that he was destitute of feeling t ees, t t) tit ees esi to vote for that committee. Looking to the inating army through the land. t te o .. lieved before they could relieee the , eg eel's, t , f 4 4 ',1 . E. taken by the hon. member, and considering ed them. without obtaining such re, l l iv ! t $ .h e f ey ah l-ted -with that line of argument, which a com ae involved in certain ruiu. In ls' te s bY e je e p qemted, might be inclined to take on this pies weit.s-- tatt.'inced, that so far from. relieving the distress, eel_lluge of petitions was sent to that Il e cs°,,',o4; islature refused to inquire int° 1 621h; r icl' i i: 1 .4, 4 , ,qkt': ‘ n a committee would teud to iucrease it very se general distress complained of. lei o f osee t, ietClAi et `?! , be the effect on every sort of credit, private led before a committee on the subi o fille t bek t it b t 111P11 ae a committee were appointed, and an inquiry it he was not allowed to state his vie to e° o /0- I to t4 - e ° 'sibi e . 3 the purpose of which would evidently be to ttee told him "we want to inquire °,' a tel, l el 5 had ke e ,',,,a depreciation of the currency? With re mediate cause of the existingdistr e ?e to o ,o .i 4 ; 4 114 I, ost a i:t question, as introduced by the hon. mem ecultural produce." He said `-` - til la all° e , e a s e e ase o mecl frdm going into it, thinking that no good I prove to a demonstration, if you: , i f the j C t ß i tl e, the I , r n ildished by i . l. protracted and multifarious dis cs occasioned by the small quantity„; 0 1 0 t e ,N °wev, e sent occasion. The observations which he hich agricultural produce realizes; to inset r o d i t ' kee t e e r, , he thought it right to throw outin reference !7, and in 1829, Parliament refuseu ee sy. ,d, i t. a- tT;ite e s i l s motion, and should only add, that he con state of the country and of the cuer. res ew a el, h,.eoi`aeser.'ceoasistent with his duty to consent to that s, all complaining of distress were t t r oleolc , : r tl rN) o ,:4 l s __ effect ; they were neglected, an d aby - c or t aste to a said that if the hon. member for Birmingham had one from Birmingham, sign' JO 110 the Y gh ut p t i)oint a committee to inquire whether or not called for an inquiry into the stet% wa'' el t e t Y i ile a aloe, be changed, he, for one, would have voted cause of distress. Such an ineul r eetece ate thtllhqie distress the hon. member only moved for an entlemen in that house knew nm d etree s e ee' p, 4 " , y 1 ,,g 0 tilv s .of the country, and thinking it probable le believed that the whole of the t le; ' e ‘ t te f ale 41gation would show that an alteration in the ch had existed in England for the. l ; P`9 3 , 5 'ft' th 4 reIVA. ta, instead of diminish, the distress, he saw 1 onnected with the currency ques t : he pe,r, f i ,4 'teies t, ',t ail a s e l ,lig to appoint the committee. It must be Iteration in the currency system w ho' d so t o at k, arid t :' °I. gross injustice had been committed in be relieved, without injury to aloY. ter , AV,bate_ eli to l!it t eelee e ",e member for Birmingham was of opinion time security to debtor and crecoe ice a e to :,'Ne t `eat ne e De revised; it would be for the committee to allparties. He had no pithy 0 5 , 0 . , ite . ow„ by ~, ,uestion : the house would not be pledged on s stating-his opinion,- all he wise e e leireeer estepas t e i ;teing to the appointment of a committee. listress relieved. Whether the t be P e ac l t goll, 'etiq i 0 thought that a committee of inquiry would e national debt was the cause, or i f tli 4 1,0 r ee k iblekh_ lo the house and the country, and promised, 4ix;.,,,tujvir divided the house, to vote with him. Ithe cause, mattered not to hini; e i oe:elie produced so much evil were tee' s ' tole t it .., t tj: . sei'„ce f ee a n was against the appointment of a com of,i,rx.oantry. ntent. (Hear, hear.) They w e e r i a d';, s th'f i % Y c l tltii"liS ~..U , U promoted by persons known to entertain he currency was effected in l'v ba t " i i cev I t ,!Ic,,),',.ett ee :tte currency question, because he thought A alteration of 4 per cent. But ''' o ff u , , t io vt ho -t th e e ' et such a committee would be to shake the per cent., it caused an alteratioa, e eil, i be Whitefeet in Ireland, the prtediae,ht W f ~k iN t ll t N ' e ttu r i, Li , dwelt upon the distress of the commercial lkri,o l4le tgi es g h classes, and stated that with the exertion of ical agitation in this country, r° l o io°' ' i t t . He saw political agitation gro e f:te ,/esee t ss . 4 ie ( 11.. e could not make any profit in trade at the petitions of the people were o , e fiear, leell;‘,tse,. difn eti e ,t, and a laugh.) Gentlemen who laughed ele an ~e, to Pei t o recta answer or refute him. The hon. mem- theing an agitator himself (` ut he had no idea, when he beca;. churcs op iryll i cll9 44 L" (1141/14./i44tIONIIi rm i n ~, tracts of-letters, showing the distressed at the aristocracy or the v Nof late " 1 7 and the increase in the amount of in. gentleman, in support a his tee Peet lii, P • VPPport thYee In conclusion, he expressed his from a declaration put forth 1 34 • e , 1 l i e ffe ii , e t i t fie t t ke l` e tefused • U m rs o . tion, and declared his opinion that ion.n e on the 2.5 th of January, I t e;, i e t" 0 0 tAI ietoge, -, itmotion, would lead to fearful consequences. the measure of 1819 had aWected Se e e, At A. arqN argued cent./ 1 1°..00?•PINt4 ° the sub' h that there had been a breach of faith sented, to the extent or 4 per „ t , ~s ri„ ,14 8e dirties Ject of t e currency. They had con per cent ~h•-, e t e, t I t h . ;1 ie re °lee in a depreciated currency,—were they nred a difference of cent. claration complained that, under ti .,. j0. .,e, oil it wi r ey . act ki liation for wishing to return to it ? Govern- T,1t, 1 arbiters between debtor and creditor, and • 'was the reward of honest , us t be,„ier s ot it Qti t o ll. ard of indolence and sloth; a pill i or e ‘' i,, o r g r 47 e l lt to both. The country had not been fairly ecessary to produce a better an d o p Thati s , s I i' t q l iot " i tili l ,ting distress and discontent afforded ample (continued the hon. member) ° ,te d. f a il `e re ie ee t o te rai,4 committee of inquiry. He hoped minis societywith which he was conne: b f re cie ecel t ;es e l' oe u e e % el ' the faults of their predecessors, and turn id oriinated in the distress %Ole o - 0 0, 0 e e b e i , t el i t et ve ,ee Npaints of the people. tad never existed those societie s og' iet el°,of,,' k l 4 b e ritae e lven acquainted with the condition of one (Hear, hear.) The people M eo le:. l t ee‘t "Ne h Peri eri ef te at uoroughs, (the Tower Hamlets,) and de lable patience; a patience s° . l' ea t 1 . 1 11 ; t.e il "t4 te " whe n ever,lt during the last twenty years, was I the consideration of that hons e e sa s ,'ieel°,, ell t t A tte re ° Pg te e 4 istress had been so generally diffused as and, let them . give to the Irish p on d` the d el ee eee le e e te lebouring classes—distress arising from would instil into his heart th,e,' ti i t s 1 4 e:leit y g e t.we el l'eir employers. The shipping interest was m cultivate his native soil. v` ea t ea ° c o, . ' lets et ries e tanproductive. The distress was widely m g , an d set the Irish peasant t ° ll e O ho el „at a b lk ti l,w as 'pitt e d 3 all classes suffered, the labouring po -711-strch lueligtfres as those, Ire, l3 t he," r ",l sca' 4 ) ' , R014, Ptitia;Pore especially; but he denied that the much was said about Irelauo,,, a e e d es ~,,, 1.1 re , ~il„eiasse s. .L„ . il stating that distress was confined to ith respect to England. '' O n o for, be P att i pAio the . before the motion of the hon. member for 8ir (144 to what they were about to wat ilo, oo , o _ I A A No el ,idtst ress the house as an abstract..proposition wever, that some good fruit c o.r o v i t ; ',lt , Dk o h B ,T io qt , b .t . g the country; if it should incidentally of reform ; if not, it should le! e f ayee 0 0 ' tii;t l ;`,t i: qtu re " , , the b o V e e_s of the committee, that the state of the (Hear, hear.) The busines; . all se cee te nt re to deal bat of the distress, it would then be for L the happiness of the peq te 'of o f th e bolei Qi rt.4' le e; b at I .th the subject as circumstances mi,ght 1 1. 4 e 14 gentl i t W lest man who felt the proer' a e t uirY t ea f: g f 5 ,, 4 e . y s eele as an extraordinary doctrine that support his motion. An 1 a waY re f olbeD I t osi;' l , th e ( 1 1 1 1 1 Port e a n of peculiar opinions on the subject recommended would tak e he e re' l ,. l " si, P, ty,1•11, ist res , ~the motion, the house ought to refuse u n i d ti w b h e e h n ap t p h y at ,a w nd as ti d ie on a e r , is s; dr o : l i ,:i d et i e ( f r s o . ci a , te ct ,,; t ! t : c tet th t a e te r itbo t r e inep. ° o l , ,, th ta e te co t u h n a t t ry distress was confined ex lei proposition were reiee e t e e took e r ie li i ci;*tril it ay , e t ,T_Ploye; : v asses; he admitted that profits were ails in their present state, o h o, o bit pie bis f f i cl, ea t as eet he was :per also suffering to some extent; to the evil consequences w ee ied li l t °C I OA l e? t 4 0 , 1 , 't. had b eet Zt Opinion that the distress was not nourable gentleman cone veci oe. ha t I the,l4lt4„lli,l gin had ii tee, as stated in the coraln e sa id, L o ieh a d0 i '01 ) . 41 : ! , 4 3 questi ngha m, ao st a ened with attention to the hon. s, in seconding them otion, oe t I 1 id 7 I to t AP 4: patte r "." of mat • was sorry to see that he had some inquiry similar thereto t 1 0 0 _, , a ti e keee eeueur , in \ve tch he Importance with a great deal of irmingham preposed, tio° t° : wi" ; 'O 9 : 'l. a,qk q2.le distress l.lll With th e ',(Sir J.' Wrottesley) could be no ind for a reduction oft axa new e 0 0 -etkeewin am en ,uon. member as to the existence IP he 'possible for ministers to f v ," 119_ 40 t 11 41 / .4 g a " 0 0d d b the middling classes. trading had in? eal of the end in the election of a I !!iry IP ere s t a, au., felt circumatances of the t disdain to institute au i - " telt bound. -to say that the hon. stress. member had not exaggerated the state of the case as it applied to them. It was impossible to deny the extraordinary effect of the alteration in the standard in 1819; persons found their capital gradually melting away from them. He was one of those who thought that there should have been something like an equitable adjustment in 1819. He relied on the noble Chancellor of the Exchequer to reduce the expenditure and taxation as far as practicable. With respect to reduction of taxation, lie wished to put in a word for the working and lower classes. (Hear.) The metropolitan members were doing their duty in pressing for the reduction of the assessed taxes, which certainly fell heavily on the inhabitants of large towns; but he suggested, that if cir cumstances permitted reduction, Parliament ought to begin with relieving the humbler classes. (Hear.) If the tradesman and shopkeeper could afterwards be relieved • from a portion of their burdens, it would be well. £1,000,0(X) of taxes had been taken off, including the taxes on beer, coals, candles, and printed cottons. He thought the next reduction should be in the soap duty, .in order to. encourage cleanliness among the humbler classes. In conclusion, the hon. baronet repeated his intention of voting against the motion. Mr. CLAY thought that the present was one of the wildest endeavours to relieve national distress, by opening up numerous and extensive fields of inquiry, that it was possible to conceive. In his opinion, much of the distress under which the country was labouring arose from causes which could not be cured by legislation. Mr. CAYLEY said that if the hon. member for Birmingham persisted in pressing his motion to a division, he should vote for it, because he was persuaded of the existence of distress, and thought that the subject ought to be investigated, with a view to the _discovering of a remedy. Mr. BARING thought it wrong to occupy the time of the house with an imperfect discussion of a most important subject. Be sides, there was a potice of motion for a revision of our mo netary system by the hon. member for Whitehaven, and he should prefer postponing the subject of the currency till the day fixed for that motion. Such was the state of uncertainty in which every thing was at present involved in consequence of the con duct of his majesty's ministers—such was the uncertainty that existed with regard to the West India trade, the East India trade, and the Canada trade, that no one would just now dare to risk his capital in them. The noble lord must be aware that no one would at present risk a sixpence iu the West India trade until the West India question was settled; that no one would embark his capital in the East India trade until it was deter mained whether it was still to be carried on by a monopoly, or to be thrown open to mercantile speculation at large; and that an equal disinclination existed to invest capital in the Canada trade until the Canada question was settled. It was this state of uncertainty, and the consequent present languishing condition of trade and business, that mainly caused the distress that pre vailed throughout the country. When hon. gentlemen talked of the increase of crime and of poverty in this metropolis, and in the country at large, it would be well if they referred for a mo ment to what was the state of things in other countries. He believed, according to the best of his recollection, that it would appear from the statistical returns of Paris, that upwardi of one third of the population of that metropolis died in poor-houses and hospitals; that out of 2/1,000,000 of deaths there were 8,000,000 of deaths in poor-houses and hospitals. It could not be denied that that was a proof of the existence of great distress in that capital. Then, with regard to the state of morals in Pa ris, there was this striking fact,—that out of 25,000 births there were 15,000—n0, there were 10,000 illegitimate, and that about one-half of those were foundlings. When hon. gentlemen talk ed of the increase of crime in this country, it would be well for them to look abroad, and see what was the state of things there. His objection to going into the committee moved for by the hon. member for Birmingham was this—that the object of the hon. member in getting them into such committee was to effect, if he could, a depreciation in the currency. (Hear.) That would be no doubt the remedy which the hon. member would propose for the distress of the country, if he should obtain a committee, and it was for that reason that he (Mr. Baring) would object to the granting of such motion. He objected to it because he did not, think that such a remedy would be attended by aught but mischievous consequences—he objected to it because he could never bring his mind to understand how, because money had been Made the measure of commodities, an increase could be effected in the wealth of the, country by altering the nature of that mea sure. But when the object of the hon. gentleman who moved for the committee was to reduce the £1 in value to 155., he (Mr. Baring) would object to such a committee. He hoped that upon some tuture and more fitting occasion this question would be deliberately discussed by the house (hear, hear), and he had to apologise for taking up so much of its time upon a debate that could lead to nothing. Mr. M. ATTWOOD said that the house was called upon to grant this committee. The noble lord had said that the distress that prevailed in the country was in no respect owing to the state of the currency, but that it was owing, amongst other things, to the power-looms. Now, the power-loom was an in vention of more than thirty years standing; so that it could not be fairly chargeable as one of the causes of the existing distress. Now, he (Mr. Attwood) would say that nothing could be more wild than for Parliament to refuse such an inquiry at the present moment, when distress was so universally prevalent throughout the kingdom. Mr. PEASE said, that he would give his support to the mo tion upon the abstract principle that great distress existed in the country. The hon. member proceeded to say that the cry against former Parliaments was that they did not represent the feelings, or act in unison with the sympathies of the country. It was on that account that they had got a reformed Porno: went, and was that Parliament going to justify all that had been complained of against its unreformed predecessors ? If they did refuse this motion, the country would feel, and he thought justly feel, that they, were not disposed to listen to the complaints of the people. He I! as rather glad, however, that his Majesty's ministers had adopted the course they did. Delu sive expectations should not be held out to the people that could not possibly be realized. He would have preferred this motion if it had not been drawn up in so general a shape, he would be still more glad if it should be withdrawn at present—(hear, hear,)—and brought forward in a more specific shape at a fu ture opportunity. If, however, it should be pressed to a divi sion, he should feel it his duty to vote for it, knowing as he did that the distress of the country was great, alarming, and, he believed, overwhelming, Mr. WARBURTON said, that the discussion in which they had been that evening engaged, instead of being calculated to lead to any practical good, was the most wasteful and desultory one that he had ever known in that house. (Hear.) He had voted .against a motion precisely similar to this when brought forward during the administration of the right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel,) believing, as he did, that it could possibly lead to no practical good, and it was upon the sure grounds—it was be cause he thought that this motion, if granted, instead of lead ing to practical good, would be productive of practical evil to the country—that he was determined to vote against it. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that as long as he conceived there was a prospect of the house resolving itself into a committeee on the Irish bill, he would not interfere with the discussion, but as there appeared to be no chance of doing so that night, from the lateness of the hour, he could not reconcile it with his sense of duty to give a silent vote on the question before the house. It was an admitted fact that a great deal too much distress was to be found in England, while Ireland, it was certain, was over whelmed with it. A complete case for inquiry . had beeu made out, and what was the ground for opposing the inquiry? That, forsooth, it would be useless—that it was inexpedient—that it would produce mischief. But why would inquiry produce mis chief? Because it would generate delusive hopes. Indeed ! But would the absence of inquiry tend to discourage the growth of delusive hopes? Inquiry would surely rather have a contrary tendency, and that would be to display the delusive character of those expectations, and thus to destroy them. When a case of pressing distress, of general and wide spread ing calamity arose, when desolation stalked through the land, it was an act of duty, it would be also an act of conciliation, to institute an inquiry into the causes of that calamity and deso lation. And when the wants and distresses of large classes in the country were pointed out to their notice by those who were the representatives of those classes, as in the case of the hon. member for Oldham, who had so feelingly described the dis tresses of the class he represented, it surely ought to be an addi tional motive for the appointment of the committee of inquiry that the house could avail itself of the local knowledge which those members were able to impart. He should, for the reasons he had stated, vote for the committee. Mr. D. W. HARVEY said that, in opposing the motion for the appointment to inqure into the distress of the country, he did so with feelings of strong repugnance. But he submitted, with all due deference to the hon mover, that such a motion ought not to have been brought forward' at all, except under circumstances the most favourable, and which would ensure the fullest and most ample success. Ile would say that it was not just, to place hon. members who were in the general advocates for such a measure ir. an equivocal position with their consti tuents, because, under the circumstances in which the motion was introduced, they felt themselves bound to oppose it. He could not help thinking that the appointment of such a com mittee would be but one method of shifting the responsibility of ' the. distress of the country from the shoulders of the ministers. Mr. RoerNsoN could not understand the ground on which the motion was resisted, Whenever honourable members brought the distress of the country under the notice of the house they were immediately told that their resolution was eithex too general br too particular. lie 'wished the noble lord THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. (Althorp) would, since he objected to the present motion, say whether he should support any other mode of inquiry - for he was sure that to refuse all inquiry in the present state Of the country would have a most mischievous effect. Mr. Tooku said that, intending to vote.for the committee as for an abstract question, he wished to guard his vote by stating that he differed altogether from the avowed collateral and ulterior views of the hon. mover. He knew, however, that distress existed : he believed that the people of England ex pected an inquiry into the cause of.it; he was sure they were entitled to it; and he had that entire confidence in their good sense, that he believed they would be. satisfied with a well conducted inquiry and a maturely considered report. The house then divided, when there appeared : For the original question, that the Speaker do now leave the chair For Mr. Atttwood's amendment -.- - - 158 Majoilty - On our re-admission to the gallery the louse was in commit tee, but we could not learn on what particular bill. It was un derstood that the committee on the Disturbances (Ireland) Bill wai.postponed. The house having resumed— . The SOLICITOR-GENERAL presented a petition from Dudley, on the subject of church reform. The hon. and learned mem ber said that, speaking as an independent member of Parlia ment, and not as a member of government, he hoped soon to see the vestry cuss repealed, not only throughout Ireland, but throughout England also. (Hear, hear.) He then presented apetitidil from a congregation of Protestant Dissenters in Wolverhampton, against the present mode of registering births and marriages. The hon. and learned gentleman said he trusted that a general registry of births and marriages would, ere long, be established. Ile then presented a petition from Dudley, in favour of the emancipation of the Jews, the prayer of which he cordially supported. Mr. Petre, Mr. Wilks, Mr. R. Potter, and Mr. W. Whit more, supported the prayer of the petitioners; and Mr. A. Johnstone protested against the emancipation of the Jews. Mr. FRYER presented petitions praying for the repeal of the Septennial Act, the vote by ballot, and the repeal of the assessed taxes, from Bilston and Wolverhampton. Mr. Serjeant PERRIN gave notice that on the 27th of March he would move for leave to bring in a bill to repeal the law which made it penal for a Roman Catholic priest to celebrate marriage between Catholics and Protestants. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from Queenborough; complaining of the conduct of the corporation of that place; another froM Bridport, praying for vote by ballot; another from the overseers of Bridport against the clause in the Beer Act which authorized beer to be consumed on the premises; and a fourth from the retailers of beer in London, praying to be placed on the same footing as publicans. Mr. W. WHITAIORE presented a petition from Wolverhamp ton in favour of the vote by ballot. Major MACNAMARA presented two petitions from Clare against the Disturbances (Ireland) Bill. Adjourned at a quarter to 1 o'clock. FRIDAY. Mr. J. DALY took the oaths and his seat for Galway as soon as the SPEAKER was in the Chair • and Lord TULLAMORE, for Penrhyn, as the Speaker was ;bout to quit the Chair, after three o'clock. Mr. Ald. WOOD obtained lea%e to bring in a bill to carry into effect two agreements with the Bishop of Ely, fOr purchas ing the fee-simple of certain lands in the parish of St. Dun stan-in-the-West, in the city of London. Mr. J. OSIVALD brought in a bill for establishing and secur ing a fund for the widows and orphans of members of the faculty of procurators in Glasgow. Mr. MURRAY brought in a bill for establishing a new cattle market in the vicinity of Edinburgh, and regulating the cus toms and tolls to be taken thereat. Mr. GIWTE brought up the report on the London Arcade Petition.—Ordered to be re-committed. Mr. HAWES brought in a bill to amend the act relating to the Thames Tunnel Company, and to enable them to raise further sums of money to carry on the works. Mr. ABERCROMBIE obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend the act relating to the Edinburgh Life Assurance Company. The house was occupied in receiving Petitions until three o'cloCk, when the Speaker left the chair. The SPEAKER, at a quarter past three o'clock, quitted the chair. T,he SAvatErt resumed the chair at a few minutes after five o'clock. t HERTFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. BERNAL stated, that as Chairman of the Hertford Elec tion Committee, he was instructed to move the house, that leave be given to the Committee to adjourn to Monday next. The hon. member stated that the application was founded on the absence of witnesses, and that it was made with the consent of the sitting members and of the counsel for the petitioners. The motion was agreed to. BOROUGH OF MARLBOROUGH—(WILTS.) Mr. METtIuEN presented a petition from the borough and electoral district of Marlborough, in the county of Wilts, com plaining of undue influence exercised by the agents of the Mar ques ofAilesbury, at the late election for the borough. Lord E. BRUCE (one of the members of the borough) said that when the proper time arrived for the discussion, he should be able to show that the material allegations of the petition were exaggerated or unfounded, The petition was referred to the committee on petitions. LORD MILTOWN. In reply to an inquiry made by Mr. HENRY . GRATTAN, as to the removal of Lord Miltown from the office of Deputy-Lieu tenant of-the - city of Dublin, and from the commission of the peace in Ireland. Mr. STANLEY said that Lord Miltown had not been removed from the office of Deputy-Lieutenant, as he had resigned the situation some months ago; but that his Majesty's Government thought his attendance at the meetings of the Irish Volun teers" inconsistent with his duty as a Magistrate, and had there fore withdrawn his name from the commission. Motion withdrawn. SIR ROBERT PEEL. Mr. COEBETT gave notice that on the 28th April he should move a resolution for an Address to his Majesty, praying his Majesty to remove Sir Robert Peel, Bart., from his Majesty's most Honourable' Privy Council, on account of that right lion. baronet's proceedings with respect to the Currency Acts in 1819 and 1826..—(This notice was received with shouts of laughter.) IRISH DISTURBANCES' BILL. On the motion of iiIeCiMiCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the house resolved itself into committee on the Irish Disturbances' Bill. The CHAIRMAN read the 24th clause, which makes it an of fence within the Act to make signals for the purpose of assem bling bodies of persons. Mr. O'CONNELL suggested that the word "smoke" should be left out of the clause. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that under this clause, unless it was used for the wilful purpose of assembling persons, caus ing smoke could not be considered as an offence. The word was then ordered to stand in the clause. Clause 25 was then read from the chair, but we have some doubts whether it was not ordered to be struck out of the bill, owing to, the indistinct manner in which the question was heard in the gallery. Op clause 26 being read, which provides an indemnity for all acts committed in pursuance, or in execution of, the powers in trusted to the military and civil officers under this act, Mr. INGHAM moved as an amendment, that there be inserted after the word " confined," in the third line, the following words :—" Except so far as regards the committal, arrest, or imprisonment of any person who may be taken into custody un der the provisions of this act, and who shall not be brought to trial within three calendar mouths from the time of his appre hension. 7 11 e SOLICITOR - GENERAL contended that if indemnification 1 — were not to be given to the civil and military officers employed under the provisions of the act, they would be deterred, by a fear of the consequences of every arrest made by them from acting with that vigour which was absolutely necessary to em ploy in order to effect the purposes of the act. The indemnity given them by the clause extended only to acts done in pursu ance of the provisions of the bill; and if any man went beyond the strict line of his authority he was at once amenable to civil process. The constant observations which were made to the effect that the bill repealed the Habeas Corpus Act were founded in error. The Habeas Corpus Act was npt repealed by the bill, it was only suspended in the case of each person apprehended for the space of three months, and if such person were not brought to trial within that time he might claim the benefit of the act, and demand to be taken before any of the judges, and either discharged or put on his trial at once. After some discussion this amendment was negatived. Mr. O'CONNELL, Mr. It. GRANT, Mr. SHIM., the SOLICITOR GENERAL, and H. GRATTAN addressed the house, when the committee then divided— For the clause Against it Majority in favour of Ministers . ---:--74 When strangers were readmitted to the gallery, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was addressing the committee in support of a proviso to the effect that no person or persons ar rested under the act should be detained in any places of con fnement other than his Majesty's gaols, br for a Iw , er period . P ,than 48 hours after the arrest. An lion. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, proposed that the SOLICITOR-GENERAL should be limited to 24 hours. The SOLICITOR-GXNERAL acquiesced, and the clause, us amended, was agreed to. The 27th clause, with some verbal amendments, was agreeil tq. The 28th clause was ordered to be expunged. The 29th clause was agreed to. Upon the 30th clause being moved, Mr. RUTHVEN said that he should not be doing justice Whit' country if he did not resist this clause. He was determined to take the sense of the house upon it. After a few words from Mr. Firzsufox, the house then di. vided— In favour of the clause Against it 64 Majority in favour of the clause . -92 The clause was then agreed to. The 32d clause was put and agreed to. Upon the 33d clause being read, which gave certain jurisdk tion to Magistrates of counties of cities , and counties of town s . Mr. O'DWYER objected to that part of the clause, and moved that it should be omitted. Mr. O'CoNue.LL supported the amendment. He had know* an instance in which a certain magistrate of the description al. laded to had his regular scale of tees, He would take twenty guineas for o eTanting bail in the case of a c h arge o f cap i ta l f er logy, and £2O upon a charge of common felony. After a few words front Mr. Hoene, Mr. STANLEY was ready to admit the objection, which had been made by the hon. member opposite. The magistrates iv question were appointed, not by Government, but by the differ, ent corpoi7tions, while the Government undertook the heayy responsibility of their acts. He had no objection to have tile objectionable parts of the clause struck out. The clause so amended was agreed to. Clause 31, with a verbal amendment, was agreed to. Clause 35 was agreed to without an amendment. Upon the 36th clause being proposed, which limied the bring. ing of any action for injury under this act to three mon th s , Mr. O'CONNELL wished to have the period during which an action might be brought extended to six months, and with respect to that part of the clause which gave three-fold costs to the defendant, in the event of failure of proof on_ the part of the plaintiff, he thought it would be more ad v i sa bl e to say "full costs." He hid thought cases in Ireland where three-fold costs only amounted to one and three-quarter costs—(a laugh.) The amendinents proposed by the hon. and l earne d mem b er for Dublin were carried, and the clause, so amended, was agreed to. The 36th clause was agreed to without any objection. The 37th clause was put by the CHAIRMAN and agreed to. The- 38th clause was agreed to. Upon the 39th clause being proposed, • Mr. Tennyson, Mr. O'Connell, and the Solicitor-General said a few words, after which, the clause was agreed' to. ' - The 40th and 41st clauses were severally proposed, and, after one or two words from Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Shaw ) agreed to. Thus ended the regular clauses of the Bill. Mr. STANLEY said lie had now to propose, pursuant to the notice he had given, one or two clauses bearing upon the in sinuation thrown out by the hon, and learn e d member for Dublin, as to the necessity of police or other authorities, call ing over the names of persons residing in disturbed districts upon nightly domiciliary visits. He would only observe that the penalty of Is. per day, or the threatened impri sonmen t i n the event of failure of giving the names must amount t o no thing . when it was considered that the whole thing, could be done in a single hour. He would, therefore, move— " And be it further enacted, that the tenants and possessors of all houses and other buildings within any such proclaimed district shall, within a reasonable time after application to them respectively made,-and so often as such application shall be so made by any chief constable or any- constable by su c h c hi e f constable for that purpose authorised by writing under his ha,nd and seal, sign and deliver to such chief or othr cOnitable'two true and correct lists of all the male inhabitants or inmates otc each such house or building, with their names and surnames is full, distinguishing those who are of the age of fourteen years or upwards from those who are under that age, such lists to . te dated and signed, and to be filled up according to the forin in the schedule to this Act annexed prescribed, or as near thereto as may be; and one of such lists countersigned by such chief or other constable shall be delivered to the person signing the same, to be by him posted on his door or inside his - house, or to be kept by him, and another of said lists shall be' truly copied into a book to be for that purpose kept by such thief 'or other constable, and shall, together with such book, remain the care and custody of such chief constable, and shall be 'kept at the nearest police station, or elsewhere, as to such chief con. stable shall seem fit; and every such tenant refusing or neglect. in' to make and sign such lists within a reasonable time after being so required to make and sign the same as aforesaid, shall, upon the complaint of such chiet or other constable, be fined in any sum not exceeding the rate of one shilling a-day for each day that he shall, after such request so made as aforesaid, refuse or neglect to make and sign such lists, or shall be prisoned until he shall have made and signed such lists ; ap4l such fine or imprisonment shall, after due notice and opportu.. nity of defence, according to the course of the Couft, be award. ed by and a, the discretion of the Justices of Petty Sessions of the district in which such tenants and persons shall respectively be resident. " Provided always, that any false statement or supp . ression of the truth iii any such list, shall be deemed -to be a misdemean.. our, and the person or persons guilty , of wilfully making this same, shall be punishable accordingly. " Upon the clause being read a second time a short converea. tion took place, in which Mr. Ruthven, the Solicitor General, Mr, O'Connell, Mr. Lambert, Mr. O'Dwyer, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Fergus O'Connor, took part. After which the clause was agreed to, and ordered to be added to the Bill. Mr. STANLEY said he had to 'impose a second clause, of which he had in like manner given previous notice; It was to the following effect : " And in order to facilitate the making such lists, be it fur ther enacted, that the chief constables of police within such din trictsshall provide and keep at their several police stations, for the use of such tenants and possessors of houses as aforesaid, printed forms of lists according to the form in the schedule ty. this Act annexed, and shall furnish the same to such tenants and possessors free of expense ; and that such chief or other constables shall also assist the said persons in the filliag and making and signing of such lists, if by them so required. And that, to defray the expenses of such printed forms and' of such books, the Grand Jury of the county, county of a city, or county of a town, within which such district or any part thereof is sit tuate, shall and may, and is hereby . required at the assizes next after the making of such proclamation, and of making such lists as aforesaid, to present such sum or sums as shall be sufficient to defray the expense of that portion of the district locally tuate within the jurisdiction of such Grand Jury, and which sums shall be levied off such counties respectively, and paid over to such chief constables as aforesaid." This clause was read a second time, agreed to, and ordered to be added to the bill. Mr, STANLEY moved a clause to the following effect;—" Pro vided always that nothing in the act contained shall extend, or be construed to extend, to permit, or enable the Lord Lieuten ant to 'dissolve any meeting duly convened by the Sheriff, or Lord Lieutenant of the county."—The clause was agreed to. Mr. LyNen proposed to add these words—" Or any meeting duly convened by any four magistrates of any county of city, or county of town.'' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he could con ceive cases in which, if such a provision were agreed to, meet ings might be most improperly convened. After a few words from Mr. 093wyEa and Mr. STANLEY. who stated, that in case of any improper exercise of the author ity of the Lord Lieutenant, Government would have no hesita tion in removing that officer. The amendment was negatived without a division. Clause C, which was next agreed to, was as followsl— " Provided always, and be it further enacted, that whenever the said Court-martial shall consist of nine members, then th e concurrence of at least seven members of the said . C ourt shall be required, and shall be sufficient to give validity 6i - deflect to the decisions and acts of such Court; and that whenever the said Court shall consist of any number of members less than nine, then the concurrence of at least five members of the said Court shall be required, and shall be sufficient, to give validity and effect to the decisions and acts of such Court.' The house resumed, the report Was brought up, and orderai to be taken into further consideration on Tuesday next. The house then resolved itself into a committee of supply. BRITISH - Mr. B.truNG moved a • grant of • £16,841 for the expenses of the British Museum for the year ending at Christmas, 1b.33. After a few words from Mr. WILKs, Mi„ HAwES suggested that an improvement should be made in the catalogue of the manuscripts in the British Museum.-- Hear. Mr. HUME wished to have the galleriei open every day to the public, and wished to have the affairs of the mstitntion generall7 submitted to a committee of that house, He Complained of the museum being closed •during the months of August and Sep. tember, the months during which, as the hon. member stated. it, strangers were most in the habit of coming to town. The CIipNCELLOR of the EKCHECILER was surprised' at al. hon. gentleman fancying that London was most crovdeaill those mouths, (Continued to rage 285•)