The Sun. — London, England, 1857-08-21 00:00:00

THE . .SIIN, i LONDON, FRIDAY'EVENING, s AUGUST 21,- 1857. and Tarbes:Yet, by the War - twat of Oct., 1854, this dis tiuguished soldier, who had retired when he became a full colonel, was passed over by no fewer than 53 other officer 4, many of whom had joined the army long-after the close of the French war. There remained on the same list a great number of other officers who bad gained their promotion for distinguished gallantry. Before this warrant came into play nobody could pass over the head of a lieutenant-colonel but a Queen's aide-de-camp ; and, relying on this rule , many officers had gone upon half pay. He had brought this subject under the notice of the house in the month of June, when be obtained an assu rance that it would receive the attention of the noble lord at the bead of the War Department. Since then, however, he regretted to say that as many as 25 men had been promoted over the head of the senior colonel on this list. No greater pay was given to a colonel than to a lieutenant-colonel ; and a brevet might easily have been issued by which these officers would have been spared the mortification of seeing young men who were subalterns when they themselves were lieutenant-colonels preferred over them merely because they had been in command of regiments for two years and nine months. He therefore trusted that the noble lord at the head of the Government, who, he was sure, was always disposed to reward the services of the officers of the army in a fitting manner, would take steps in the course of the en suing recess to remedy so grievous a hardship. Sir F. SMITH congratulated the noble lord at the bead of the Government on the introduction of the present mea- sure. No sounder arrangement could be made than to embody a portion of the militia. He believed that the re cruiting of the regular army would, at the same time, be earned on with great success. During the late war 40,000 men were enlisted in the regiments of the line, and we then had as many as 800 different recruiting de tachments. When the mutiny broke out in India we had only 26 such detachments, but since that time the num ber had been rapidly increased, and now amounted to between 300 and 400. Within the last fortnight we had obtained upwards of 1,000 recruits, although the-cir cumstances were unfavourable for procuring them. When the harvest was completed we should no -doubt get a great many more, under the auspices of the distinguished officer who presided over our recruiting operations. Toe Government had despatched to India an augmentation of the troops of the line, and also of the cavalry. They were likewise, for the first time—it being an exception to the ordinary rule—sending out a force of the Royal Artillery. There were 3,000 Sappers and Miners attached to our army, and he was quite certain that 1,000 might be spared for India. He might be told that the East In dia Company had a sufficient number of engineers in India, but he believed that that was not the fact. He had reason to know that there was a great demand for engineers in India. Of course, if Delhi had fallen—and he hoped it bad—there would not be so great a necessity for their services ; but every military man, and no man better than the noble viscount at the head of the Govern ment, knew that there were but four ways by which Delhi could be reduced—first by capitulation, which was highly improbable, and which would be very impolitic for us to accept, be the terms what they might ; next, by investing it, and reducing the mutineers by famine, which would be a long operation, and one that would not keep up the prestige of the British army in India ; thirdly, by assault, and fourthly by escalade. The last named plan—that of escalade—would not be very easy for us to accomplish, owing to the present position of our army in India. It would be seen, then, that the most advisable means of reducing Delhi was that of making a breach, with a view to its capture. Of course it was very well known that. the whole of the Sappers and Miners belonging to the East India Company's service bad deserted with the rest of the rebels, and were now in Delhi. Every military man knew that the sorties at Delhi bad bean conducted with considerable skill. One of tne flanks had been attacked, and another flank turned, and if that flank had not been composed of British Fiddlers the men helongin-e to it would have been doubled up and utterly destroyed.' He should net be at all surprised if the mutineers now in Delhi made ano ther Saragossa. Gen. Barnard bad not, so far as he knew, a single soldier who was abbe to do the work of a sapper and miner. He therefore hoped that her Majesty's Government would send out a large body of men tho roughly qualified to do that kind of work. Perhaps he might be told that a European sapper could not work in the hot climate of India ; but he did not believe any thing of the kind. If we sent out European gunners to work in the field, surely our sappers could perform the less severe work of carrying on sapping and mining ope rations at night. Their work was invariably done under cover. Moreover, be had been assured, on the high autho rity of a gentleman who had charge of the railway w: rks in India, that the whole of the Indian railways could be constructed entirely by European labour. He therefore begged most respectfully to suggest to her Majesty's Go vernment the great desirableness of sending out to India a portion of our Sappers and Miners, who, he was satis fied, would well discharge their duty. Sir D. E. EVANS concurred in the suggestion of the hon. and gallant gentleman as to the sending oult of Sap pers and Miners to India. Even if Delhi were taken be' fore the Sappers and Miners arrived there, they might be most usefully employed in the construction of a series of fortified positions. Europeans might not be able to work so rapidly in India as the natives ,of India, but their work would be more solid and finished than that done by natives. They were now on the eutject ot the militia, which was intimately connected with the whole of the Indian question, because the militia was to be embodied fur the very purpose of meeting the state of things which the mutiny in India had occasioned. He was very much astonished to find that the noble lord at the head of the War Department had stated that the number of militiamen proposed to be called out for the present was 10,000. That number appeared to him to be totally and absurdly inad quate. He recollected complaints were made by navel officers almost on the eve of the declara tion of war against Russia of the insufficient number of ealors in the Royal navy, but not a sailor was added to it, and the Government attempted to justify their supine ness by giving this very wise reason—that the increaseof our navy at that time might affect the negotiations then being carried on wi'll the Emperor of Russia. He really thought that the addition of merely 2,000 men to our navy was not much wiser conduct than that of the Go vernment immediately previous to the war with Russia. He begged to r taggest to the Government the great_want of small steamers to carry en our operations against the mutineers. We bad several such vessels, if not rotting, at leact lying idle, which might be turned to ex el lent account if they were sent to take part in the opera tions in India. By their means our men could penetrate far into the interior of India, and a moral as well as a physical etfect would thereby he produced upon the peo ple of India. He hoped that the Government would em ploy some of our large ships of war in conveying troops to India. The French set us the example of. thus em ploying ships of war during the campaign in the Crimea. The French navy did not entertain that prejudice which it was said our naval officers entertained against the em. ployment of war vessels as transports during a time of war. Even if, a little irregularity should be occasioned in the discipline of our navy by employing our war ships as transports, he thought that any objection which our naval officers might have of that nature ought to yield to a desire to promote the public good in a time of emer gency. He hoped Government would reconsider this subject, and, if possible, employ the great and powerful steamers belonging to her Majesty for service in India. Every exertion ought to be made on this occasion. Lie conflicts which Lad taken place before Delhi and in other places were, he found, of a vigorous desciiption, and it was gratifying to see the heroic valour displ eyed by our soldiers of every class in the face of vastly superier num bers. On this point he would remind the noble l ord that a year or two ago ber Majee4y determined to grant what was styled the Victoria Cross for acts of special valour. In tutnre that reward was to be given on the field by the general commanding, and this was a frost desirable mode of distribnition. He should recommend for the consideration ot the noble lord whether authority might not be given to Sir Coliu Campbell to confer this Victoria Cross as a reward for the gallant acts of our In dian troops lately recorded. He thought also that on such an emergency a 3 this the Government should consider the , propriety of removing the ground of complaint which was wade more than once by the D ake of Wellington in his tle spatches—namtly, that behad not the power of giving the 'smallest promotion. It would be well to give the com mander-in-chief in India the power not only to fill up vacancies, but to grant promotion, subject, of course, to the confirmation of the Sovereign aed the Government. He saw by the public journals that the force in the Persian Gulf had been ordered back to India. Tne statement was, he hoped, correct. General Jacob, who was in command of that force, was a man of great exee rience, of great scientific attainments, and of undoubted ability ; aid no man in the Indian army stood higher in the service. Independently, therefore, of the great advantage which would he gained from his pres-nce in Schiele, where he was so well' known, it was to be hoped that his services would be made available iq .some command. The mention cf this nfficer'e name, by 'the by, reminded him of the statement that these mutin ies **l taken the Indian Government by surprise. .'"eve must, however, have been some infatuation on the Pert of t t Ile Government on this point, for the whole s ‘ p , e rn °l , lib:pp had been laid bate seven years ago in Gener oz :o t h a very striking character published by ; The strat , ments also made by Sir Charles Napi er ject ought au rely tl,a'd other :officers on the same sub take steps to avert the induced the Government to question of caste, wl,ietigers pointed out. n the b e saw it reported 1 1 ( 1 1 so much to do in this mat t-in t vrwapapers th..t the emu mender of the forces had lately issued an new that order of a character quite of hi namely, that recruits only Presiden Cy argray.ast should in future , huii,pdeesltattheattabhaet be raised for the Bombay right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. Sm i th) e „ this was not the case, or otherwise it would afford a strong proof to his mind of the unfitness of the °Met r he alluded to for the h i g h command held b y him . Nothi ng child be more obviou s than the inconsistency and the imprudence of attempting to engraft upon th e bay army a system of caste which had led slapareetly to such fatal results in the army Of pe n g• °l' ano ther point connected with India he must express pia satisfaction with the statement of the noble lord the Other evening, that the Government intended to give pecuniary aid for the establishment of the t,le graph between Suez and Aden. It was true that this would only apply to some few hundred miles of the route to India, but no doubt it would g reatl y facilitate and accelerate the communication, and be trusted, therefore, the Government would see that the tmdertaking was carried out with despatch. With re gard to what had been said on a former cceasion as to the conveyance of troops through Egypt, he confeeeed that the statement of the noble lord respecting the dun culties by no means convinced him of the iuspraetici bility of adopting this route. In his opinion, a portion of the troops might with great advantage be sent through Egypt, and as the necessity for sending reinforcements would undoubtedly continue he hoped the Government would reconsider this subject. Other - points connected with the state of affairs in India had been touched in the discussions which had taken place, but to these he would not refer. He had neither the ability nor the disposition to enter into the question of policy raised the other even ing by the right hon. gentleman opposite ; but there were one or two matters relating to Indian policy which it would not be well not to lose sight of. It appeared that some of the native princes, even among those re siding close upon the scene of conflict, had remained perfectly loyal in the midst of the disturbances which had taken place. Among them were Holkar, Scindiala, and others ; and he thought it would be well without wait ing for ulterior events, that those princes would be told that their conduct would be rewarded hereafter by an extension of their territory or in some other way. At all events, some declaration of the intention of the Government to evince their satisfation at and their grati tude for the course pursued by those princes ought not to be delayed, because it was of the utmost importance to us that they should remain steady to our alliance. Then, agiin, he ventured to think the Government ought to make arrangements to finish this matter cer tainly in the second campaign. By next November our troops ought to march with triumph through every part of the disturbed districts. As to the reinforce ments he hoped these would not be despatched by driblets, but that every exertion would be made, without reference to money, to place the largest possible amount of naval and military force at the disposal of - the Indian Government, He bad expressed his satisfaction the other day that a large reinforcement of artillery—consisting, he believed of 17 troops—was to be sent out. It appeared, however, that those troops were weak in number, and would only muster 134 gunners each. Now, the strength of the troops of artillery in the Crimea was eventually 204 men. In the present case no margin was left for losses by sickness or other causes, and he should not. be surprised if it were shortly found necessary to form tso of these troops into one. It was most essential for the Government to bear in mind that from •arious causes heaVy losses must be looked for in the force despatched to India, and adequate provision must be made to supply these losses. Sir W. F. WILLIAMS quite concurred in the re marks by the hon. and gallant member for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) upon the necessity of sending out Sappers and Miners to India. When they remembered the number of strong places which were now in the hands of the rebels, hon. gentlemen might well imagine the efforts which must be made before they could be dislodged by troops of this description. In his opinion, it would be necessary to send out 1,000 of this admirable corps with their officers as soon as possible. He concurred also in the remarks of the hon. and gallant general (Sir De Lacy Evans) as to the strength of the troops and companies of artillery which were to be despatched. These troops were about to em bark for a country the climate of which in some districts was of a most deadly character, and therefore not only ought they to leave England in as efficient a state as possible, bat every calculation should be made for the casualties which might be anticipated in their ranks. He did not concur in the hope expressed by the gallant general, that if Delhi were taken, not one stone should be left upon another. (Hear, hear.) It contained arsenals and works which had been prepared with great care and at great expense ; it contained, also, a large amount of stores and ammunition, and a intro se rious mistake bad not been made of late years than leaving such a place, full of such materiel, in the charge of black troops. (Hear, bear.) Instead of Delhi being destroyed, and not one stone being left upon another, he , hoped that it might be preserved with very great c iregand that, if we once got possession of it again we should never selow an enemy to be seen within its -walls. He agreed in all that had been said with respect to the want of fortified places in India. He had been in all the presidencies of that country, and he had seen, so to speak, the nakedness of the land—station after station without a single stronghold. - The consequence was that when we were attacked all went over like a pack of cards. He hoped that Parliament would turn their attention to this sue jest and that we should never again permit so great a calamity—he might say disgraceto fall upon the nation. He was perfectly sure that her Majesty's Government would never at the commencement of this session have reduced so many of the regular troops of Great Britain had it not been for the pressure from without. He was satisfied, therefore, that it was not their fault. He remembered how the noble lord the mem ber for London and the right hon. gentleman the mem ber for the University of Oxford vied with each other-es bade as it were against each other—with regard to those reductions, and he was persuaded that had the Govern ment attempted at that tine to retain those troops they would have been defeated. bet them hope that what had taken place would be a warning 'to them—(hear, from the oppoetion)—and he trusted thathor. gentlemen opposite who said " hear, hear," would assist them with their votes when these matters elute under consideration in future. (An hon. member on the opposition side.— "We have never done otherwise.") With regard to the Sappers and Miners going to India, be remembered that when Aldershot was being discussed in that house he stated that he was in favour of Aldershot en condition. inter alia, that the troops of the line should be instructed in a certain amount cf sapping and mining; in making gabious, and in other things that might ba useful when they went to India. He only hoped that they had been so instructed and that the authorities at A.ldersh , :t had taken those steps. If they had net, they might probably hear opinions expressed when they came to discuss these subjects next year which would not be agreeable. Si. H. VERNEY was satisfied that whatever eeter tions her Mejesty's Government might think fit to make to meat the present crisis in India, to render our troops victorious, and to restore that government and do minion which we had so long enjoyed there, would meet with the cordial co-:operation of the honso and of tho country. (Hear.) He could sot entirely concur with his gallant friead who had last spoken in saying that . the Government were not to blame for cutting down our establishments, because he did snot believe that they would listen to representations made on either side of the house unless they conceived that those representa tions were founded on justice and truth, and he con tended that it was upon their responsibility and that of no one else that the reductions bad taken place. He thought, however, that they should now incintre, not so much who was to blame for the frightful calamity that had taken place, as what measures could be adopted to remedy the present state of things and as soon as pos sible to give protection to our couptrymen in India. He desired to see, for example, not only large steamers employed upon the large rivers, but small steamers sent up a!1 the small rivers where our stations mostly were established. Such steamers going up, well armed and wed mantel, would afford the greatest pos•dhle protection to those stations. He knew win the frightful callosities to which our countrymen were ex po ed, and he trusted, theref ore, that there would be not ing Ike vacillation or waist ofstrengtb; determine' lora or vigour ex' stated on the part of the Government or of the authorities in India. (Hear, bear ) He was quite sure that when the details of this Indian warfare should be told we should find that there had been performed acts of heroic valour and of wonderful fortitude on the part both of soldiers and civilians which would fill U 3 with achniration and with national pride. (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he trusted that the gallant army. which was about to proceed to India would be provided with adequate medical essis'ance and with every comfort and necessary that could be required. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. RAMSDEN, in answer to the various ques tions which had been addressed to him, said, that the principle on which the Government bad acted with re spect to ceiling out the militia was that the number which they proposed to embody should bear some pro• portion to the number of troops sent from this country to serve in India. At present, according to the number sent out, the Government consi lered that it waned be sufficient to embody 10,000 militia to do the garrison duty which the troops that had gone to India would otherwise have done. If it should afterwards be found uecessary to despatch a larger limber of troops to India, then it would be requisite to draw more largely on the militia; but in the meantime 10,000 would be enough for the purpose. He had received no intimation with respect to the insufficiency of the information which had been given to the surgeons of the militia to guide them in the conduct of the recruiting service ; but if any of those gentlemen - thought it desirable that the directions should be more precise they would receive every iuf re mation upon application at the War-office. It was im possible at present to state precisely which militia regi ments it was intended to embody. He was fully aware that it must be a matter of great inconvenience to mi litia officers to be kept in doubt longer than was neces sary, and as soon therefore as it wool l be possible to let them know, consistently with the public interests, they should be informed. In selecting the regiments Govern ment would be regulated by the reports which they received as to the ability of the various regiments to do the most efficient service immediately on being called out. Admiral WALCO IT suggested that Admiral Seymour should receive orders to despatch all the small steamers and gunboats which he had at Hongkong to India. They would be of immense use in ludia, wilds as to the Chinese, we could take them in band at any time, and thrash them at our leisure. ("Hear," and a laugh.) He took this opportunity of expressing the high opinion he entertained of the gallantry and judgment which had been exhibited by Admiral Seymour and the others, both of the navy and marines, under his nothrnaed, who bad been engaged in the operations in the Chinese wat,rs. Lord PALMERSTON—My hon. friend tho Under- Secretary of State for War has explained generally the points of detail that have been referred to in the course of this debate. I can only repeat what he has said, that in fixing the number of the militia which we think it ex pedient to embody we by no means bind ourselves not to call out more if circumstances should render it expe dient to do so. However, recruiting has gone cn with great success in spite of the harvest, and we entertain no deutbht that when the ope ra ti on s i nc id e nt t o thi s p er i o d of e year are completed the number enrolled will very rapidly increase, and we shall be able to piece in the tanks a_ numbe r of 11Y men equal to that which has b een or Wer s sent to I n di a , hon, arid gallant friend the member f astiou wh estmins ch t g recea'ed to- n i g ht a very natura l sug- wa m a d; tooltpidrevious evening, that these troops should be sent la in screw lioc-of-battle s hips, which could easily be adapted to that purpose, ehnYwair an arrangement and de ceit crew, and would l o a u r l g d e b n e um na b v e i r ga o t f e m d WI) In the first instance inch spa • carrywh iwhich a c arrangement may appear to be very - odvan t ageous, but I could reil nest the s house to bear in mind ot her cons iderations in retard te the amount cf our m ilitar y force at bogie which have been forcibly dwelt upcn. We were reminded that we had been compelled to despatch to distant stations a large portion of our military force for which we asked . and-which Parliament granted, for the general purposes of the country 6 ... in time of peace, and it was said, "By so doing you have really weakened your defensive means at home, and faro e - , , n countries may take advantage of ns, and either hold language which r do things to which you ought your apparent weaku, T he enew zsr which I gave to that was you not t o o ng su h n t in n i o t t .u to bear ~.1 would not endure con that the people of this country ergency should re - ; duct of that sort, and that if an e.: 11 quire it men would be raised rapid;; and upon the sudden. That very consideration, hos... ever / shows how inexpedient it would be to send to the other end of the world the greater portion of our our naval _ force— (hear, hear)—because, although these steam lin "of battle ships are, it is true, lying in ordinary and of t:,i s immediate use, yet if any of these events should occur we should want suddenly to put to sea a large fleet, and how could we do that if the ships which we should re quire were doing duty as tranepotts in the Indian Seas l Therefor: I think that prudence shows that the despatch of these ships to the East would have been a very ines , pedient course—in fact, it would have been falling into • the error which the great orator of Greece imputed to the Persians. He said— - - " When you strike a blow at one part of them they put their hand to that part and leave exposed every other, which may be struck in turn. Do not, you Athenians, follow so unwise and foolish an example." I think we should have fallen into an error of the same kind if we had sent to India the fleet which circumstances occurring in Europe might, at short notice, render neces sary for our defence at home. (Hear.) The suggestion of the hon. and gallant officer as to the sending of troops across Egypt is well worthy of consideration. Oa a pre vious occasion I stated the objection to such a proceed ing. These objections it may be possible to overcome, especially if you can make arrangements beforehand. If a small force were required speedily at a particular sta tion arrangements might be made for sending it across from Alexandria to Suez. With regard to the general question, I think that the house ought to take a larger view than hon. members have generally been disposed to adopt. We Lave been reproached for precipitately re ducing our army and navy upon the return of peace. Some have said that in doing so we yielded to pressure from particular members of this house, while others have attributed it to a want of foresight on our part. The course which we have adopted is the only one which any government acting under a representative system such as ours will ever be able to pursue. Different forms of Go vernment have their different advantages. Undoubtedly a despotic Government is the best for providing in time of peace the means and preparations for war, because such a Government, being subject to no control but its own will, and possessing the foresight which you must assume all governors of countries to have, keep up in time of peace a larger force than is actually required for de fence, and when war unfortunately occurs it is at once ready to meet the pressure which is thereby occasioned. On the other hand, when war does break out then comes the advantage of representative institutions, because then it is that the whole nation rallying round the Go 'moment gives to it a support and foree which no des potic Government can by any means or by any possi bility possess. In tisie of peace, however, a iwpresenta tire Government is comparatively weak. It is not that if.we were to press this house we might not persuade it to vote men in Committee of Supply. We might induce it to give U 3 a larger peace establishment both of army and navy, but your votes of supply are of no use what ever wises they are accompanied by votes in Ways and Means. That is the limit of your peace establishment. What happens when peace arrives ? What took place last year Daring the war the country was ready to submit to any reasonable and necessary sacrifice to carry it to a successful issue. It bora great burdens and woul i have endured greater still if it had been satisfied-that they were necessary for the vindication of the national honour and the assertion of national interests. Nations, however, have no foresight, or at least very little. Indi viduals may have, but multitudes have none. The con sequence was that the moment peace was made every body from one end of the country to the other cried out for the remission of the war income -tax. That was a cry which-this house was neither disposed nor able to resist, the consequence was that the Government found it abso lutely necessary to bow to the national will, and the war inc me-tax was given up. That reduced our income, and we were necessarily compelled to proportion our peace establishment to the income which Parliamena as the organ of the country, chose to give us. That was the real reason of the reduction of our military and naval establishments to an amount lower than woul I have been expedient at the present moment. (Hear.) Still, with all the inconvenience which these changes of opinion• and of system may produce, there are in herent in a representative assembly so many ad vantages that these should be regarded only as defects which the country must at ail times be ready to repair by prompt and speedy measures ; and I am quite sure that those exertions will n ver be wanting when the occasion may require them. The present case, however, is not one of so much difficulty as was presented at the breaking out of the Russian war, because when that war began all the addition to our military was to be made at the expense of the country. The expense of any addi tions made now falls, not upon the revenues of the em pire, but upon those of thetEast India Company. There fore, no additional expenditure is required on the partof the nation, and all that we have to do is, as troops are from time to time withdrawn for action abroad, to keep up our e , tablishments at the numbers voted by the Com mittee of Supply. That I think we shall be able to do ; but this house has already unat.lmausly voted an address to the Crown, assuring her Majesty that nothing shall be wanting on our part to enable her to carry on opera tions in India with vigour and success ; and if between this and the period at which Parliament usually meets it should be necessary to ask for further assistance, lam quite sure that no members of this house would grudge tie attendance which might be necessary to afford that assistance to the - Governmmt. (Cheers.) My bun, and gallant friend thinks that a large naval force ought to be sent to India, as a flotilla which should operate in the river?. The house, must, however, recollect what I am sure my hon. and gallant friend from his experience knows very well, that the Indus and the Ganges, al though they figure well upon a map, and are really very large streams, are not generally of such a depth as to be navigable by ships which we could send from home. Their navigation is impeded by sandbanks, shoats, rocks, and shallows, and any ships which we could send from this country would be perfectly useless ex cept just at their mouths. My right hon, friend the First Lord of the Admiralty has sent or is sending . nut such. a flotilla as it possible to despatch from England, but it must be remembered that the East India Company have a navy of their own. All their ships were employed in the Persian cwwedition, but the greater portion of them must by this time have returned to India, and therefore their crews can be placed in their shallew boats or rafts., which alone are useful for the navigation of the rivers of India, and by which any operations iii those rivers can best be performed. With respect to Persia, the engagements embodied in the re cent treaty have not yet been fulfilled. Herat has not yet been evacuated. On the contrary, there are reports which affirm that additional troops have been seat by Persia to Herat. That has been denied by the Persian Ambassador at Paris ; but still the whole of the engage mettle of the treaty have not been carried into effect ; groat doubts are entertained as to the good faith of the 'Persian Government ; and therefore, until the stipula tions of the treaty have been complied with, it is per fectly clear that the British force cannot and will not be withdrawn. That force is under the command of Gene ral Jaceb, a most distinguished general officer, and until that force has been withdrawn it will be necessary to have there an officer of the great military experience which General Jacob possesses. Well, then, I say we are thankful for the suggestions which have been made this even ing, coming as they do from persons who are so well competent to make them, and I can assure those who have offered them and the •house that they shall receive every attention from her Majesty's Government, who will take advantage of any of those suggestions that they may think likely to conduce to the efficiency of the pub lic service. But I entreat the house to believe that the attentions of her Majesty's Government shalLbe most carefully and anxiously directed day by day to these sad events. We feel not only how afflicting are the details which reach us from time to time, but -also the vast im portance of the conflict - now going on. We_ have no doubt, however, of our ultimate success. We are coe El dent that the strength and power of this country will be put forth to suppress this insurrection,'let the causes of it he what they may, whether they be religious or palitical, or from whatever source they may have sprung. (Cheers.) I shall not enter into those causes pow ; hut I can assure the house that we feel the full importance of maintaining the Indian empire of this c mntry, that no exertions towards that end shall be wanting; on our part, and I have the most perfect confi dence that those exertions will be attended with complete suecess. (Cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI (who spoke in so unusually 1)w a tone of voice as to render it a matter of difficulty to col lect the whole of his observations), was understood to s ay—l only wish our home defencee were at this mo• moment not inferior to what they were during the 1 etc war, for we had then our Artillery, our Marines, and our Channel fleet. But now our Artillery has gone to India, our Marines are in Caiaa, and our Ch lane! fleet —(the remainder of the sentence was inaudible). We must ;member, with respect to the observations of the gallant general as to the transmission cf troops by ships of war of the highest class, that, according to the reports we have, there are ships of that character quite sufficient to make an efficient defence of our own coun try, and to act in the manger which the gallant general suggested, while we might at the same time have the great advantage of a Channel fleet. , But I think everybedy must admit that in an emergency of this kind, after all we have heard of scientific progress during the last few years, and of the application of science to the purposes of war, and after all we have heard of screw propellers and overland routes to India, it is eawreinely mortifying to find that we can not have recourse to any of those new sources of strength. (Hear.) I think that is very much to be- re gretted ; and although we may net be ells to send 30,000 or 40,000 men over Egypt, yet there can he no doubt that 5,000 men, if they had been sent through Egypt, would have been a most valuable addition to the force which we have in India, and, arriving there very shortly after the troops we heel sent to Chica, there would have been a force of 10,000 Men, which would have had a very considerable effect on the foitunee of the war. I am very glad to hear that this militia force is called into action to suyply the place of our regular gar risons. I think it is very much to be regretted that it has become prevalent of late to look on the militia merely as a means of recruiting the line. The highest character of the militia, that they era the constitutional defeeders of our country, ought never to be lost sight of. During the late war it was to be regretted that , at no time was there a militia regiment that was not pestered by a parcel of recruiting agents, and that the. tone and charac• ter of our militia regiments in the service was lessened and degraded. All this might have been avoided, and greater support given to the regular army if there had been a nearer relation between the militia regiments and the line. In the old revolutionary war there were certain relations between the militia regimentsandthe regiments . of the line which acted reciprocally and most beneficially on eaeli other. The regiments of the line were recruited from the militia, and the tone and character of the militia regiments were much higher during the revolutionary war than during the war with Russia. Complete militia regiments at that time were enlisted for active service, and I believe there was then a greater and more continu ous supply of men, although those arts of enlistment , which were practised during the late war were not bad !recourse to. However, the militia is to be embodied, and that is a very wise and proper measure. I wish it had been on a greater scale, but at the same time it is to be em bodied for a great public purpose, and I have no doubt the result will be highly satiatactory. It is unnecessary for me t 3 enter into any discu-sion with regard to our position in India. The gallant general has spoken on that subject with authority and also with great courtesy in reference to some observations which I recently ad dressed to the limes.. Nolaine that has since occurred has at all modified the opinions to which I then gave expression ; but I don't think it advisable or expedient to enter into any further discussion on that subject. We have only one object before us, and that is, so far as the House of Commons is concerned, to let the Government understand that we aro most anxious to forward all those measures which are calculated to bring the efforts now making'to suppress this mutiny to a successful termina tion. (Cheers) But in so doing we should remember the responsibility which devolves on us all freely to express our opinions if at any time we should think the Government ara not acting in a manner tending to ego duce the results we so earnestly desire. I very much doubt whether the suggestion of the gallant general with respect to sending a steamboat to Cawnpore, armed as he stated, could be carried into effect. But there is no doubt that at this moment much depends on the fate of Cawnpore. I think it is a much more i °portant ques tion than that of Delhi. There is a railroad from Aela habad to Cawnpore to the extent of 60 miles, and, al though the locomotives are liable to destruction from local causes, it is still used as a tramroad. There will be 60 or 70 miles more, over which the troops would have to march, and in a country where the population is to a great extent in insurrection ; but it may be assumed that in five or six days the force from Allahabad would arrive at Cawnpore, and that would be the signal for success. It appears to me that on the fate of Cawn pore much, if not everything depends. If we can main tain our post there until November, when the advance of the army takes place, we may indulge hopes of success. Brit in so doing it is of the utmost importance that we should in November make an advance, both by the Indus and through Bengal, which wilt demonstrate to the whole peninsula of India that our force is compre hensive and irresistible. I trust the plans of her tvlejesty'a Ministers will justify these expectation's. I am net entirely satisfied, however, as to the sources from which their support is to be gathered. The other night inquiry was made as to what might be expected from the Cape. We have a very considerable force at the Cape, and the policy of the Government, which is to keep a large mili tary force at that point, is one calculated to exercise in fluence in emergencies similar to the present, But I have never heard from Her Majesty's Ministers whether we really are to expect any assistance or any contribu tion from the garrison of the Cape to this army which we are collecting in India. The hon. and gallant general the other night pressed on the house the expediency of sending some regiments from the Cape, and the Secretary of the Colonies, who followed him, I think, said the Government had pointed out .the importance of this policy to Sir George Grey, the Governor of the Cape, and had left the matter to his discretion. I repeat, I should like very much to know whether the Govern ment can tell U 3 whether the Governor of the Cape is taking any steps in this emergency, and what proportion of the forces under his control he is prepared' to contribute t 3 our Indian army. There is an impression abroad that the Governor of the Caps is not inclined to see his forces diminished, and as the importance of the question can hardly bo exaggerated I should be glad if her Majesty's Ministers cool! satisfy the house and the country upon that point. We may be told there is souse danger of a Caffre war. Of course, if we are officially informed that there is such danger we must give great weight to the assertion, but from all the information which reaches ma—and which is unofficial— I should say that there is no danger of a Ceffre war. Probably at this moment there is less expectation of such a war than there has been for many years past, and I am therefore desirous of knowing why eo many regiments tots retained at the Cape at a crisis like the present-. I ask this question because I remember that the Governor of the Cape—a gen Leman of great energy, who has shown on ninny occasions that he possesses qualities which en title him to cern:need—wag for some time Governor of the settlement of New Zealand, and that during the period of his governorship ho maintained the largest un itary force that could be assembled in that colony. At one time there were at least six regiments in New Zea land, an I the prosperity of the colony aid the great in crease of revenue were perpetually pressed upon our attention ; but this prosperity turned out to be mainly, if not entirely, attributeble to the expenditure of the large military force. I now find the same Governor the Cape of Good Hope, with a still greater military force. I know that the e:penditure of a regims•nt at the Cape is, caicutatecl on the lowest estimate, 30,0001. a . peer ; and I can understand that a gentleman who has the reputation of great energy, and who has a large military force under his command, would feel —if it were left to hie discretion very much indisposed to decrease that force. I should, therefore, be glad to learn whether her Majesty's Government—from gene ral infermetior, and upon their responsihility—havegiven more definite direction 3 for the despatee of troops to In dia from the Cape than a mere appeal to the discretion of the Governor. In touching on this subject I cannot help referring to a point upon which I should have been glad to hear the opinions of hon. gentlemen of the military profession. I allude to the term of military service of regiments in our colonies. Some of the regime, is sent to our colonies are kept there a much le ter time than is just or politic, or for the interests of the couuiry. I re member that at the beginning of the session, an hon. friend of mine asked the noble lord whether it was the intention of Government to recall the 45th regiment from the Cape of Geed Hope, but the noble lord replied that ha had nothing to do with the disposition of her Majesty's trooee, and that the question was one for the Bone Guards to determine. Tuts is an oceasion on which that subject may be referred to, and I must say that the po•itiou of the 45th —a reginfent of very high character—ought not to be unnoticed in such a discus. eion as the present. The usual term of service for an he. fantry regiment in such a colony as the Cape is, I under stand, 10 years, but Vie 45th has been at the Cape for 15 years, and I believe there is no prospect of its relief. • Tne consequences of such service, protracted beyond the in tentions of Government - and of the country, are most serious and injurious; and if a regiment in these circum stances fele under a governor who likes to he at the head of an army old to exerch , everygreat ii-flaence and autho rity the prospect of re ief is so slight that unless its posi tion is brought under the notice of such an aseembly as this it is likely to remain without redress, Tne 45th regi ment, which went cut to the Cape in the expectation of remaining there 10 years, has already been on the station 15 years. The men have no quarters; they are scattered in detachments over South Africa, leading lives of con tinual hardship; yet they are Englishmen, officered by Engiieh gentietnen, and there is no prospect held out to them of any redress. At the cammenceneent of shls veer, in May, I be love, there was a sort of unofficial announce ment that tbty were about to be relieved, and I am told that the scene which tonic place between the officers and men—such of them, at least, as could be collected, for so scattered were the detachments that it would have required two months to assemble the entire regi tuent—affected all those by whom it was witnessed. I should be very glad to hear that they were going to India to besiege Delhi or to relieve Cawnpore, After undergoing years of toilsome duty they had no opportu nity of gaining promotion in the Crimea, or of attaining that distinction which all Englishmen covet. I believe the position of this gallant regiment is trely heartrend ing, and I trust the Government will consider the -circum stances to which I have Belle] attention. The hon. and ga ll ant G enera l who spoke in defence of the Government, and who vindicates his friends in a manner which I should be very sorry, were I in their position, to experi ence, has aceountel for the reduction of the military and naval forces of the country on grounds which I °morose, somewhat est inished Me. I understood front him that the Government were fully sensible that the military forces of the country ought to have been maintained in , much greater strength, but that the Howe of Commons would not support the necessary estallshraente, and that, notwithstanding the conviction of the Government that reductions we: e iinpolitic and injurio-as, yet, prefer ring place and power to the policy which they thought right, they yielded their convictions to a Parliamentary necessity. Nom, I are not a supporter of her Majesty's that up, - ; Geverntnent, but if I had the ho nour of sittin g behind the noble for 1 , I should do him and his collea gues the justice of saying that they w ere never influen ced by pre set m su i c n h ist c ry on , siod any h :a grave a subject be influenced on l y b y their o p inion s as to what was necessary for the adv anta g e and welfare of the rtion o s t . er I M ainnistr sure y, would the on pr s e empire. I deny that rho members of Parliament who have been refe'rred to ever exercised a y pi" . sure from without," or were not p-rfectly justified in When we were engaged in a the course they adopted. expeesive and a rduous struggle , during, which no most one can pretend that the 1101338 of Commons Ohl not give the Government every support they required, the mein here who sat behind the Government and the Oppeeition vied in placing at the disposal of Her Majesty's Mi n i,. ters all the means which were necessary for bringing the wbieh I now repeat, that strug g le t o a success ful issue. That obje ct w a s attained. Ihaat the vebesfeotrteleenfepxoiefdpnie3_pinaugh iittsbno there mi g ht b e , objections to poilita of detail —wise such as to give us the expectation of a long and permanent peace. What e as , then, the duty of the House of Commons? Our Highest function is that of guardians of the public purse. Surely, when war had ceased, and when we were toll and be lieved that there was an expectation of an enduring peace, our first duty was to enforce economy—and the most rigid economy--oMpen the Government, and to di miuisli the pre sure of taxation upon the people as much as Pasale- The only return we could make to the peo ple fir the seal an d patriotism with wh ich the y cam e for ward in the emergency w as by showing that , when the crisis was past, we were mindful of our duty as stewards of the public purse ; that we were not debauched by the -habit which prevails in Parliltilellt during a time of war cf easily voting public money ; but that we were prepared ',to enforce upon the Government a s y etem of reduction and This was economy. Tin • the first duty of Pa rliament ; and i t was the first duty of Government if t he y believed that p eace was secured, to respond to our wishes. I say, therefore, so far as the House of Commons was concerned, that we acted most wisely in the course we took ; because whatex cites in emergencies a promo.: and passionate reap )nse to the appeals-of the Government on the part of the com munity, who have been described by the noble lord as so shortsighted, but the conviction that advantage will not be taken of their generosity, and that when the desired result has been accomplished their interests will be con sulted, and that they will be allowed to husbani their resources which, if an emergency should again arise, can atone enable them to afford similar assistance to the Go vernment ? It is the econe'y, the retrenchment, and the reductions of taxation effected After a war which en able the community, when an emergency again arises, to come promptly and powerfully to the aid of the Go vernment. I conceive, therefore, that when, as members of the House of Commons, we impress upon theDovern ment the necessity of reductions, we inerely do our duty; and not only do we do our duty to our con- tituents, who have the first claim upon our consideration, but gene• rally and abstractedly we adopt a politic course, bee Luse we enrich the community, and enable them, when a ne cessity again arises, to supply the resources which may be required. There is some distinction between the posi tion of a mere member of Parliament and that of a Mi nister of the Crown. A member of Parliament deems it his duty on the termination of a great struggle, and after the commencement of peace, to enforce reduction and retrenchment. Something more was to be expected from the Minister of the Crown. He has sources of informa tion not open to us, and he has a policy in his mind of which we are not the sharers. He has a responsibility on him ten thousand times greater than all the members of Parliament put together ; and if, the Minister believes it to be not wise or expedient to effect reduction or re- trenchment, the Minister under those circumstances is hound to come forward, and if he has the conviction it is not only his duty, but, in my opinion, it would be on his part a duty which he could successfully fulfil, to ini pre-s that conviction on Parliament. If Parliament pressed the Government for reductions which they be lieved.would be injurious to the country it would be in the power of a Minister—and I am sure it would be in the power of the noble lord, addressing the house in a warning and 'monitory tone, without making any reve lations inconvenient to the public service—to make such an impression on Parliament as to induce members to relax in the efforts they were making and in the opinion they were urging. I do not ray that her Majesty's Ministers had a consciousness of the danger of the course they were taking. I commenced by expressing my perfect belief that they had not, though as to some p ants of degree and time I might have some difference of opinion ; but in the main the Ministers thought the time had come when they thought economy ought to bs en forced and reduction practised. But did the cireum stances of the empire justify the Ministers in having that opinion 'I I express my conviction that they did not. I think the Ministers ought to have beer more aware of tne condition of the Indian empire than they were ; or if they were really aware of the - condition of empire, I do not think the Ministers were ju4"fied in the c ears° they pursued a , d recommended to Parliament. It is easy to say that it is of no use now to inquire what ie the cause of the convulsion which has taiten place. Then we are told that. the events were such as no one could guard against ; but if we maintain that • argu ment we put ourselves in a false position, for if these things could happen without any human being an ticipating them, what use is there for any G. e vernment I If • without the slightest expectation twenty-four hours beforehand an insurrection can take place extending over, a country nearly as large as Europe, and with a population of 180,000,000 of souls—if such a thing could happen without those who are responsible for the administration of that country having the slightest previous knowledge or sus picion ef it--I want to know of what use or value is the Administration under cireurnstacces of that kind. Every day something. oozes out whiCh shows that the Admiui stration of India ought to have been, if not absolutely prepared for all that has occurred, most suspicious and prescient of what _has happened. You cannot jeatify now, when you are more acquainted with the circum• itances—you cannot, with your knowledge of the in subordination of the Bengal army, justify that Admini stration in permitting a post like Delhi, the arsenal of the Empire, to be garrisoned solely by naive troop, when they must have bad information of the mystical symbols of combination and conspiracy circulating in that very city at the commencement of this year. These are questions not very convenient new to urge, but when attacks are made on members of Parliament because they performed their duty, after the conclusion of the war, in enforcing economy and retrenchment on Mini rere, and when it is said that the fault of our present potation is due to members of Parliament doing their duty, it is right for us in our defence to make these re marks, and to impress on the country other consideraa tions besides those which were submitted by the hon. acid gallant General. • I repeat, we did our duty in enforcing economy on the Government, though it is very much to be regretted, considering what has happened, that we were successful in our policy. I doubt not that the Government of this country acted fairly and candidly, by the house in c mseeting to that great reduction of taxation, and te those- general meesuree of econousy which were a looted. They did be lieve, no doubt, that they had provided sufficiently for all the exigencies of the country, but the Ministers cannot relieve theCuselves from this grave responsibility which devolves on them, for having, in c meequeece of their fatal ignorance of the condition of a great portion of her Maj,sty's. empire, and of their total negligence and inadvertence, sanctioned the policy, which Parlia ment commenced, of reduction, at a time when it is quite clear that if they had been in possession of that infor mation which .I maintain they ought to have been in possession o', mu:it have appeared a most unwise policy, and which has proved most injurious to this country. Mr. V. SMITH—The present debate began by the hon. and gallant general and by another hon. member offering some useful suggestions on the question how the revolt in India might be put an end to in a tone for which the Government could not be otherwise than grateful ; and the right lion, gentleman, when he began, assumed the same tone, and, as I understood, deprecated the discussion at the present time of the causes of the Indian mutinies. At the close of his speech, however, Inc. right hon. gentleman forgot his opening warning, and fell into that line of observations in which he had on a former occasion indulged. The right ben, gentleman referred to the speech of the hon. and gallant member for Calue, whom he represented as saying that the Go vernment, being perfectly aware of the great need of troops, had cut down the force from fear of the House of Commons. Now, I understood the hon. and gallaet gen thinan to say no such thing ; buy, at all events, I ain sure the Government had no intention so to act. My neale friend has stated what I believe to be a perfectly acknow legged constitutional doctrine, which the right hon, mem ber for Buckinghamshire has himself adopted —namely, that, theug,h it is the duty of the House of Cerninoas to enforce economy-on the Ministers, yet, if . the Midis ters are aware that the state of units in Europe or in any of her Majesty's dominions makes it fatal to diisai nish the military forces,-they are bound to defy--if I may use the expression—even the House of Commons, and to force on the house those considerations which appear to them important. The Minkstere, however, were aware of no such considerationr. They proposed a pewee establishment, which- they are sill disposed to th nk was a Futfinient peace establishment, and which happened to be above the peace establishment existing before the commencement of the war. But the right, hon..gentleman says that the 'Government ought to have been aware of this all fir in In-lie. Now, if the right hon. gentleman enters i - to that argument, and states the reasons why he thinks so, I hope I shall be prepared to meet him; but on the present occe- ion he had only adverted to one circumstance in connexion with that point, and that is that Delhi, being a large arsenal, had been left uoproteete l by European troops. Now, if the Government in 1857 could haie been aware of any danger existing in that circumstance, every Govern- Ment for the last 20 or" 30 years ought to have been equally cognizant of it ; but they never were, and I deny that there existed any particular circumstances attracting the attention of Government to the un protected state of Delhi. It was ale aye believed throughout India that Delhi was an unsafe and unhealthy station for European troops, aed Sir C. Napier, whose opinioni. on Indian affairs were much referred to, desired a large arsenal there, to be protected by 12 native regiments, and never proposed to place European troops at that station. This may be a question of policy, but neither the present nor preced ing Governments should be blamed eith reference to this point. The right hon. gentleman has defended himself from a supposed attack for having enforced economy. Tne Gevernmeut do net make any charge . against him upon that ground, i ftiey think it is tho duty of a member of the House of Commons to consider economy iu all these matters, ane when we are told that the Government diminished the forces too much I refer in reply to the Btatetnent of my noble aieucl, who pointed out that, though the House might tell the Go vernment that it would vote a larger number of troops, yet the House wee not ready to tell him that it would vote larger ways and means to maintain them. Hon. members surely cannot have forgotten the war 91. The country called out to the Government to get rid of that war 91, and I think tbat.tbat cry was perfectly, fair at the time, after the termination of all the calamities which had occurred, and there being no circumstances in Europe or in any of Her Majesty's pes,sessions which indicatel Any _cause of alarm rendering it neces sary to keep up that tax. . If, therefore, any minister had come down to the House under those circumstances and stated that he would n. 4 take off the war 91., be cause the arsenal of Delhi was unprotected by European troops, such a plea - Would have been scouted by the House of Commons, and he would have been accused of putting it - forward merely for the purpose of keeping up large establishments. It would Lave been said this was a plain imposition on the part of the Government, for no outbreak there could possibly be anticipated. Th e right hen, gentleman referred to a statement made by my noble friend the member for the city of London, who expressed his surprise—at which I do not yloncier —that, considering all the inventions of modern science, we should have no better means of despatching troops to India than by sailing vessels. The asitndtio , , hownie,r, is not quite accurate, fk,r great care was taken is the cohsideraion-of this question, and a number of troops were sent out in screw reamers, the ethers being sent ih clippers amid sailing vessels. But the right honourable gentleman fergets that there acre many advantages in sending out the troops 1.3 r good clippers. They were not only more economical--which I admit is not itself a sufficient consideration—but regard being had to the season of the year the pas. age iaas likely to be made by . tnern in 70 days as by the screw steamers- themselves. Every consideration wes g ven to the matter with the view of s xpediting the transport of troops to India, and considering the season Of the year and other circumstan °es the clippers were thotight to be rather better than steamers. With regard to the question whether the troops ought to have been sent through Egypt the house must- look at all the circumstances. It we had loan steamers in the Rod Sea to cenvey the troops from Suez to India, that would have been the ret-se expeditious mode of transit, and we might have overcame the politi cal difficulties attendant upon the pa-sage of troops through a foreign country. But we bad no such steam ers ready, and 7f we had communicated with the Indian Government, desiring that they should be sent, cr if we had sent them ourselves we should have lost as much time as in sending the troops by the usual route. There . was another reason in the unhealthiness of the Red Sea at that season of the year, which rendered it undesirable to send troops by this route. We could not by any de gree of foresigbt haye been provided with ships at Suez, nor, if we bad sent out screw steamers, would there have been a sufficient provision of coal at the usual coal ing stations, since the coal provided for those steamers which usually run :would have been entirely insufficient for the large system of transport rendered necessary by the recent occurrences. There has, therefore, been no neglect of the modern inventions of science, nor any of that duniess, ignorance, or prejudice which might he presurtied. All that can be said is that, under the cir cumstances, we have not been able to deal with the mo• dern inventions of science so amply as we might other wise have done, Then the right hon, gentleman says that troops 'ought to have been sent from India from the Cape. I can assure him that the Government lost no time in sending the most positive instructions to Sir G. Grey at the Cape to for /yarn two regiments immediately to India. It has been left in Sir G. Grey's discretion to send more than two regiments, or not, but he is in structed to send as many more as he can spare. I do not think that more distinct instructions could have been sent to the Governor of the Cape. At the same time it happens by a curious coinci lence that lord Elphin stone, the Governor of Bombay, with an energy and dis cretion that cannot be too highly applauded, sent for two regiments from the Cape, and also despatched vessels whereby they might be forwarded to Bombay without de lay. (H-ar.) Ido not think, therefore, that the Gov ernment can be justly charged with any want of energy and foresight in respect to the Cape. But the right hon. gentleman has thrown out a charge and has led us by im plication to suppose that Governor Sir G. Grey is not likely to act on these instructions, or to send as many troops from the colony as ho can spare. I have the honour of Governor Grey's acquaintance, and I do not believe there is any man more ready to act on his own responsi bility. Sir G. Grey is not only a - man of judgment, but of undoubted nerve and high courage. He is not likely to be alarmed at the position of affairs in the colony, and there is no doubt that if he can spare more than two regiments ho will send them to India. Governor Grey in all the offices he has filled has executed his duties to the satisfac tion of his superiors and the public. I happened to be attached to the Colonial-office when he was first appointed to a colonial government by my noble friend the member for the city of London. That appointment was given to him from a knowledge of the energy and skill he had dis played in his journeys in Western Australia. At that time Goveruor Grey was unknown to my noble friend (Lord J. Russell), but every Colonial Secretary retained him in some colonial government until he was ap pointed Governor of the Cape of Good Hope, in which post he has acted with courage, spirit, a nd judgment. (Hear, hear.) My hon. and gallant triend the member for Westminster has referred to the native Princes of India, and he says that we ought to manifest our satis faction with their se, vices and fidelity by giving them an increase of territory. Well, that may come here after, but it is at present doubtful whether it would be expedient to exhibit in that manner our acknowledgment of their conduct. Many of the native princes have be haved with great gallantry, generosity, and friendship to the Government of India. Thu hon, and gallant ,gentleman has referred to Holkar. That chief has, no doubt, maintained his allegiance and behaved with sin cerity to the Government of India, but it also happens that Holkar's troops have all turned against us; and it would therefore, be rather prom iture to give him an in crease of territory. [Sir 1). L. EVANS---" These troops have been put upon, him."] They are supposed to be under him, and in such a state of things it would be premature to give inereased territory to any chiefs who have exhibited their goodwill in so unsupported a manner. Many of the suggestions of my hon. and gallant friend will be valuable as objects of future policy. The hon. and galant gentle man the member for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) recommends us to send out sappers and miners. That suggestion, com ing from so experienced an authority, no doubt deserves, and will receive due attention. The right hon. gentleman has suggested that steps ought to be taken for the relief of Cawnpore. That is a question which it would be difficult to enter fain here ; but I have no doubt that by this time Cawnporer is relieved. I regard the remarks of my hen. and gallant friend as suggestions rather than_attacke upon her Majesty's Government ; but when my hon. and gallant friend says that he agrees with the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire in thinking that the Government ought to provide for a second and third' cam paign (Sir. D. L. EVANS —" A second candpaign"), I must state that the Government have provided a force which they consider sufficient, and which -they are assured by all the authorities upon Indian subjects will be amply suffi cient to extinguish the flame of iusurrsction in ladle. We hive sent ounan officer of undoubted ability--Sir C. Camp bell-to take the command of the army in India. Thera is already in the command of that army Sir Pi Grant, also a gentleman of undoubted ability, runt well acquainted with the Indian army.- It would not be wise to predict the course which it may be necessary to pursue hereafter, The Government will desp itch a-sufficient force to India, but before they send the largo reinforcements which some persons think necessary it may appear, that the distin guished officers to whom I have alluded may be of a different opinion. We shall be prepared to act on the suggestion of those officers who are most competent to in form us, but I hope that the house and the country will feel assured that there has been no lack of consideration as to the amount of force necessary to put an end to the re volt. An ample fo'ree has been sent out for this purpose, and our reinforcements will arrive at the boss; seas-in of the year. They will, I cannot doubt, display, those military qualities which lead to success, and, nithough I would not hold out hopes that might be falsified by the event, I will assure the house that this question has not been treated lightly by Her Majesty's Government, but has been re garded by them as one of thti most serious events that has ever occurred to this country. (Hear, hear.) These difficulties wig, however, be surmounted, for I am certain we shall be backed by the house in every endeavour to overcome them. (Cheers) And when Her Majesty's Government turn their minds to the - reorganisation of the Indian army, and to the question whether it will not be their duty, by a large addition to the European force in that - country, to keep down the appearance of insurrection on the pirb of the native regiments, they will at the same time consider by what means they can best secure and ad vance the happiness, comfort, and wellbeing of the natives of India. (Cheer,;,) • Mr. HENLEY said it would be out of place for him to offer an opinion on military affairs, but he felt hound to take some notice of the speech of the hon: and gallant member for Caine (Sir W. Williams). He did not know whether the hon. and gallant gentleman intended to make an attack upon his friends on the Ministerial benches for providing insufficient means for putting down this re volt, but he did make an attack upon the House of Com mons for having put a pressure upon the Government and for having e mit down the establishments too low, and he, for one, protested against any such conclusion. What had since taken place completely negatived such a con clusion, 'unless, biassed, the hon. ant gallant gentleman (General Williaens) was of opinion that the Government ought to brave foreseen the danger of this outbreak in India. The Government wore now despatching between 20,000 and 30,000 mon to the East, and yet they had not felt it neces sary to. call out the militiae-they had merely asked for the power to cal it out at some future period. Surely, when it had furnished the means in time of peace of sending out a force of 20.000 or 30,000 men to the other end of the globe, the House of Commons could not fairly be charged with having cut - down the establishments of the country too fir. The right hen. gentleman (Mr. V. Smith) had confoanded. two things that were totally distinct. When asked why a European force had not been stationed at Delhi, the right hon, gentleman's answer, was, that that could not be done consistently with the remission of " the war ninepence." Now, whatever might have been the in formation possessed by -the Government as to the neenisity for garrisoning the seat of the ancient Mogul empire, it was plain that the war ninepence could have bad no possible connexion-with the matter, because they all knew, and the noble lord the Prime Minister had that very night assured them, that the coat of providing additional regiments for India fell exclusively upon the Indian treasury. (Hear, hear.) He denied, then, that pressure had been put upon the Government by any part of the House to compel them to reduce the military force of the country below the proper limits. Whether the Government might have had ,reason to anticipate such an outbreak aahad since occurred in the East was quite another question, into which he would not now enter: Bat whatever might ba the require ments of India, that House ought not to be reproached with having forced the GoVernment to cut down the mili tary strength of the kingdom to a point incompatible with the national safety and Ininour. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, the noble lord the First Minister had himself entirely ex onerated the House of Commons from the charge which the hen. and gallant gentleman had thought lit to bring against it. General WILLIAMS complained that what he had said ha 1 beers misapprel ended by two right hen. gentlemen who had addressed the - House. He beet made no attack upon the House of Commons. Ho had merely stated his opinion, as a member of that assembly, that the re,tuctions, which had been effected wore unfortunate and precipitate. And he bad aided, so great was the pressure from without, that if the Government had thought it necessary to have a larger body of troops, they would not, from the Tirit of certain parties in the house, have been able to obtain them. Sir D. L. EVANS explained that what he had said in regard to Idolkar was, that that clitef had neon personally . faithful to us, and that he had [Toyed his fidelity by send ing his treasure from In flora, his own c a pit a l, t o our f ort atllabow. He was quite aware, however, that Holkar's regiments had mutinied. Mr. DISRAELI also explained that the President of the Board of Control hal attributed to him, in regard to a third campaign, the very reverse o f what he had really stated. What he had said was that they should take care to finish their operations in the second campaign, so as to preclude the necessity of a third. Mr. SPOONER animativertel on the absence from the speeches of the First Minister and the President of the Board of Control of any recognition of our entire depend ence, for the success of our measures to quell the revolt in India, upon the blessing of Divine Providence. The bill was then read a third time and passed. DULWICH COLLEGE BILL. Mr. LOCKE presented a petition from the parishes of St. Both10),8t. Saviour, St. George' , -, Southwark, a nd Camberwell, praying that their right to elect two gover nors each to take part in the management of Dulwich Col lege should b 3 continued to them. 11r. BAINES, in-moving that the Lords' amenlmonts to this bill he- now read, said he should m ove that the house should agree to rill tho Lords' amendinente to tha bill, with the exception of that which reduced the-number, of elected goveruors by the four pari,hes interested, from eight to four . At the proper time he wool 1 move that the Cornmons insist upon the number of guardians, from the parishes in question, s hould be eight. ,When the bill first came to the Commons there N; as a scheme for a governin g body by which there w as to be one elected guardia n from parish e s i n question with it nominated e n .d itti, ar az a l s t each of the guar diais. The bill was referred to a select c e o le m acnt i was recommended that the numbers of CL t it there should be two hour each of the parishes: tins state . the should be "IG nominated guardian- , ; ant i ita bill was rout to the llonse of Lords. Their lord ever, altered the governing body to the ol• ci l nunisbeirPBo)fhOwur elected guaidis.ns, and l t nominated gnat tans. Well, be did not object to the numbers of the non- elected being re-, duc3d, but he 'thought the parishes had a right to two 'goardiani eaTh, as it was proved that such a as the desire of the original founder of the college. This was the r. a ion why he should ask the house, at the proper time, to insist upon their amenitnent in reference to the - eight elected memb 3,5, aid to disagree with the Lords' atneudnieut on the gubject • The timeudtnent of the Lords in respect to the nomi nated guardians was then a_re,,d to. Mr. BAINES then moved that the Commons insist upon their amendment in respect to the right of the four parishes named to elect two guardians each, and to dis agree with the Lords' amendment on the subject. Mr. KNIGHT moved the adjournment of the debate, and said that thefellows of thecollege had misappropriated the property entrusted to their charge, and the compact which had now been entered into was one of the worst • that could possibly be devised. (Hear, heir.) Sir G. GREY said the bill had been carefully consi dered by select committees of b. th this house and the House of Lords, and he did not think this was the time to discuss the merits of the bill. The only question was, whether they would agree to an amendment of the House of Lords, whether there should be eight members in the governing bodies of the parishes instead of four, and he hoped the discussion would be confined to that point. The amendment was ultimately withdrawn, and Mr. Baines's motion agreed to. The several amendments were then gone through, the house resolving to insist upon certain of them, an d not to insist upon others. A committee was then nominated to consist of Mr. Baines, Mr. Miller, Mr. Williams, and Mr. Cox, to con fer with the House of Lords on the subj-ct, and it was resolved that the committee meet forthwith. CROWDED DWELLINGS PREVENTION BILL. Mr. COWPER said he had come to the resolution to withdraw this bill, feeling that in the last week of a pro tracted session the opponents of the measure had a power commensurate more with their pertinacity than with their • numbers. The opposition in the present instance had this peculiarity, that it came mainly from hon. members who represented thosl parts of the metropolis in which evasions of the law were most frequent, and in which the greatest number of lodging-houses were found, to the injury of health and the detriment of morality. Under these cir cumstances he begged to move that the order for going into committee upon the bill be discharged. Mr. AYRTON regretted that the right hon. gentleman had not done a graceful thing in a graceful manner, but had considered it necessary to make remarks as uncalled for as they were unfounded. The right hon. gentle , oao , had no doubt withdrawn the bill because he had disco vered that it was entirely erroneous from beginning to end, that it would not carry out his professed object, and that it was not in the least degree necessary. The hon. and. learned gentleman concluded by statin; that he intended to give a notice of motion which he believed would go to the root of the evil. The order was then discharged. FAIRS AND MARKETS (IRELAND). Mr. HERBERT obtaiued leave to 'introduce a 'bill, with a view to its being printed, for regulating fairs and mar kets in Ireland. AUSTRALIAN POSTAL SERVICE. Mr. MACARTNEY moved for an address for copy of any contract entered intu with the European and Colum bian Steam Co. or the European and Australian Royal Mail Co., in pursuance of a tender bearing date the 11th June;lBs6, and signed by John Orr Ewing, for conveying the Australian mails from England to Melbourne via; Southampton, Alexandria, and Suez ; returns setting forth the number of days occupied in each voyage out rend home, separating the portions of the route between South.* ampton and Alexandria from that between Suez and Melbourne ; also a list of penalties incurred by reason of non-arrival according to contract, and the amount (if any) siren, :y levied or deducted from the contractors' remune ration ; of the name, tonnage, and horse-power of a ll vessels employed by virtue of the said contract in the Australian postal service ; and copies of all communica tions between the Treasury, the directors of the European and AusLrallin Royal Mail Company, and of the Royal Mail Steampacket Company, with the view of ainalga• matins said companies, to enable them to continue the mail service to Australia and the West Indies as one emu. puny, and the terms proposed by the Government or the said united company for performance of the postal services now performed by those companies separately. The hon. member was proceeding to state what he be* lioved to have been a failure on the part of the present contracting company to comply with the conditions of their contract, when he was informed that his motion was n ot opposed, and he thereupon resumed his seat after moving as • above. Mr. WILSON said there was no objection to give the returns which were asked for, but he could assure the how member that although these had been one 'or two failures incidental to a new company, yet upon the whole the ser vice had hitherto been satisfactorily performe.l. The Government had exacted the penalties prescribed for an! breach of the terms of the undertaking, and would con' tinne strictly to enforce the contract, _ Mr. CONINGHANI wished to know in what manner the public would be benefited by the amalgamation of the two great steam companies which bad united to carry out this contract. It was said that great favouritism had beau shown, and he believed there was good ground for the statement. The companies had not done their work, and the system of penalties which was supposed to keep there in check was a mere fiction. • Mr. WILSON said that the question of the amalgams* Con of thetwo companies had not come before him officially but when it did it would be considered solely with a view to the public interest. The returns wero agreed to. MILITARY EXECUTIONS IN INDIA. Mr. RICHARDSON moved for a return of the number of mutinous soldiers belonging to the Indian army wh o had been blown from the cannon's mouth since the last re v olt began, and the places and under whose orders the% execue tions took place ; and asked whether such executions were in alcordance with the rules of military discipline in In• dial The hon. gentleman was unable to fen's a sesaader for his motion,_and it was therefore not put, nor was any au. ewer given to the question with which he concluded. Tltia r,solt was received with cheers from all parts of the ,outol• The house then adjourned at half-past 10 o'clock. • Country Markets. MANCHESTER-AuG. 20. With an average attendance this morning there was onlf a limited inquiry for wheat and flour, at a n a w awa o f 24 per qr. for English, and 3,1 per Nibs on American, and 1 to 2s per sack on the ratter sin c e thi s d ay se'nnight. Ostil and oatmeal were both in request, at extreme rates. Been l and Indian eorn unchanged. NEWARK—AUG. 19. We had a good supply of old wheat, which made n per qr over last week's prices. Little new wheat brought for* wan]. Wheat, white 65s to 70s, red 633 to 618; barley, malting 45s to 50s, grinding 35s to 365; oats, 24st. 36s to 38s, 22sts 32s to 31s; beans, 4-48 to 52s ; malt, 73s to 80s ; peas, 4 611 to 488; tares, 54s to 58s per qr. New white wheat 67s to 708; new red, 64s to 665. LOUT 11-AuG. 19. Thera was a middling supply of wheat, yet sufficient for the demand, and the little that changed hands was at prices re,. her ovor those of last week. In other kinds nothing doing. Wheat, 50s to 605 . ; extra, 635; barley 42s to 44 - s; oat 24s to 283; beans, 44s to 495. BOSTON—Ana. 19. Prices :—Wheat, red, 62s Od to 66s Od ; new, 73s to —4 ; white, 60 3i) i to 6isOd , extra, 653. Barley, 40.3 Od to Or 0,1. 0-I,s, 25s to :31s. Peas, 40• to 413 OJ. Beaus, 41$ Od to 50s Od per GLASGOW—Atro. 19. There was more inquiry for the batter sorts of wheat at previous rates. Flour met an improved sale at rather over previous rates f.r both suks and barrels. Oats and oat° meal steady. Barley unaltered. Beans and peas fully &O. dear. EDINBURGH GRAIN.—Aua. 19. Wheat, on the top, la 01 down, and on the average was Os Od up. Barley, 3a down on the top, and is i la down on the avesage. Oats on the top is Od up, and ott the average id up. Beans on the top 2s Od down, anti on the average is 6d up. AVERAGES PER IMPERIAL QUARTER., Wheat £2 3 6 4-12ths. Do. new -12th. Barley Oats 1 11 10 0-12ths. Baans -12ths. Total Supply and Sales. Wheat 2367 qrs sold 1515 qrs Barley 267 qrs sold 146 qrs Oats 1035 qrs sold 708 qrs Beans 147 qrs sold 49 qrs DERBY SMITHFIELD.-AuG. 18. A moderato supply of fat beasts to-day, which were 10 good request, and last week's prices fully maintained. The number of sheep an I lambs by no means large, and readily' disposed of. A large supply of fat pigs, and sales heavy at a slight reduction. Fat calves ablut the averago and its batter request. The followihg were the quotations :—Beef, bid to 7d mutton, 7d to I ii ; lamb, 8d to 41 ; veal, 61 tc 6 l d pet lb. ; pigs, lisOd to 10s 61 per score; rough fat, 53 9 I to 00 per 141 b.; hides, 4.0 to 6,d per lb ; call-skins, 44d y) per 10. At a general meeting of the shareholders of the R-yal 13tnk of Prussia, held at Berlin on Tuesday, it was pro p med to raise the rate of discount from 5 to 5,1 per cent., l•aving the rate of interest on advances as before at 6 per cent. BIRTHS. OF A SON. On the 13th inst., at Itibstono Hall, the wife of John, Dent, Esq. On the 18th inst., at Clapham-rise, Mrs. George Catter• mole'. OF A DAUGHTER at Wear How Ere, near Exet er , L a dy Duckworth. On the lith inst., at Thightoo, the wif e o f J. G. D o d son , Esq n the ., M.P. inst., 18th MARRIED. . On the 20th inst., at W a tt on C hurch,. Herts, by the Rev. Sir Henry Dlikenfield, Bart., and the Rev. W. R. Fremantle, Rowland, third son of Samuel G. Smith, Esq., of Sicowbs-park, to Constance, second daughter of the late Lord Granville Somerset. DIE On the 19th i ns t ., at Blackhea D th, Sarah Frances, wife of Sir John Walshatu, Bart., of Kuill Cowl , in the county of Hereford. Oa the 19th inst., William Kershaw, Esq., of Waver tree-road, J ge-hill, Liverpool, aged 67. On the 18th inst., at Bethnal Green, the Rev. John Eva.. blew, age d 79. On the 17th inst., at Bedford, theßev. Richard Downes, vicar of Surdou and Strea 4 ,l3y, Beds. On the 17th inst., at Setuu Castle, East Lothian, Colonel George Cad,ll, of 13, Randolph-crescent, Edinburgh, late of the H.E.I.C.S. On the 17th inst., at ?3, Porchester-terrace, Bayswater, Rear-Admiral H. A. Eliot, as 69. Oa the 16th inst., Mirg (ret, wile of Mr. T. G. Smith, formerly of the Stock Exchange. Ou the 18th inst , at Dulwich-hill, Surrey, Wm. Stone, Esq., aged 65. LONDON Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tits Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Middlesex, Friday, August 21, 18.57, li 1 0 N T HE RA( on theta ov tr. KAIII Lectures ar the " Philo "Artificial open from t MR influential suffering fe MEET [NC London, on The ehair Many In' a Commit ti affording re this fearful Tickets Reserved e. Mansion• Trig ao Guineas. FithOß t w Voat, i t h 1 Waistcoats PRIb this , SOLDsevet tural displa are everytt to' the occi study of co Most fashi buildings t its beautifu to which tt and consid the metros Kensington T HE Sh( and Gern;a s Through iOhDany, Fl y pot Further :: 10 Inpauy's atrezt. • Ci c Rx; Will be lan termediate Perform at a sine) , train leave GRA The Dire are now ei Val Bonds remainder the Act of 1 Forms of the London rrice- unti netant, aft 85 RY the _ l 7, these Itailway a the Prov ' in all th e caw , rate of 6 p , Each hor en Tuesdni the thofi o Stibscrino t he option of reem v i n , Interest /Mins receil These B( and are rei 2 1,014 I MA], Trai King Leßve 4 ; * 730 , 9 30 , 10 0 11 0 1 45 p., 5 30 , 8 45 , Leave .7 30 a. 10130 , 5,30 p. Fares : %d. third c _Care mu aorthern DAY TI from King 37 3. gd. sc fora Cha toil ~ .-. TI1( rteoir Chari 31st 1 work lion alit( at t Peri( 50113 the] this pill in', Oftl