The Sun. — London, England, 1840-06-03 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION, Mr. FOX MAULE said be bad received such a rep qt, ar.,l helow,d th,:t cons . d: He: 1 ,:. taken place in Mr. O'Connor's treatment. Mr. DUN CONIBE—Does that extend to his d et 'l Mr. FOX MAULE—Yes. Mr. A GLIONRY asked if, along with the regula tions of the Visiting Magistrates, there would be laid before the House an exact detail of Mr. F. O'Connor s present treatment, which he understood to be precisely the same as before.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD said he had received a letter from Mr. O'Connor, stating that he was treated exactly in the same manner as before. Mr. FOX MAULE was understood to reply, that recise information would be given on the subject. Mr. SHAW—As the Hon. Under Secretary is the only representative of the Government present, perhaps he can inform the House when it is probable that the Irish Registration Bill will be further proce.'ded in. Mr. F. M.AULE was not able to answer the question. EMIGRATION. Mr. S. O'BRIEN then rose to monn—" That in Great Britain and Ireland the working classes are ex posed to extreme privation, from inability to procure . employment. That in several of the British Colonies. the de•nand for labour is urgent, continuous, and increasing, and its remuneration is comparatively ample, whilst the prosperity of these colonies to much retarded by its inadequate supply. That under these circumstances it is expedient that a free passage to those colonies which offer the greatest rewards to industry should be provided by the State, for such of the labouring classes as are disposed to emigrate thither." It was not a question of an attractive nature, but it was one of very great importance to a nation like Great Britain, who possessed such vast colonies. He there fore trusted that he would be favoured with the atten tion of the House, not on his own account, but on ac count of the intrinsic importance of the question itself. He considered that the House could not oucupy its time better than in considering whether it was in their power to afford relief to the distressed by means of emigra tion, and so employ our shipping and create markets for our productions, in which we would have no rivals, and planting colonies from which we might derive many of the productions of the earth of which we stood in need. In comparing the trade of that country with Russia and their own colonies, he found that in 1830, the ex ports to Russia from Great Britain and Ireland emounted to 1,663.1431, the amount of the populet ion of Russia being 160 000,000. The amount of :he exports to the Australian colonies in the same year was 1,836,000/. while the population did not exceed 116,000, He only adverted to that one point for the purpose of showing the improvement that was daily taking place in their colonies, and he believed that in proportion as they would be aele to remedy the distress which existed at home by means of colonization would they p-oemo the security,peace, and content ment of the people. He now came to the two positions laid down in his resolutions— first, he contended that there frequently existed in that country sufferings among the poorer classt s, or. in other words, there was an excess of labour as compared with the demand. There might not be, as regarded En g _ land, a great redundancy of the populaties generally, but in particular districts and seasons nod kinds of employment there was an excess. Fur example, he would refer to the ease of the hand-loom weavers, whose ' • destitution had already attracted so much public attention. e"Upon the whole he thought they were compelled to infer that there must be a great amount of suffering in the -Enelish population, when they found that in 1838, after all the reductions that had taken place, in conse quence of the labours of the Poor-lave Commis sioners,. the whole amount of the poor-rates last year amounted to no less a sum than 4,725,566/. He was not prepared to make out a case for emigration by ex aggeraticg the redundancy of the population of Eng aud No man left his home without the hopes of improving his condition, and he thought therefore, titer. they ought to - have assistance to enable thew to improve their condition. With regard to Scotland, in the Highlands there could be no doubt of the truth of the proposition advanced in the first resolution be intended to propose. Ireland, however, was chiefly interested in this question. and with respect to that co utory, he felt convi nce d t h at he need not app e al to the humanity of H era m em b ers. lie would appeal to self interest, and he woult' say that if the condition of the Irish labourer was not im proved, the gentlemen of England must be content to see the condition of their own population reduced to the same level. Three years had not elapsed since a Com mittee cif Inquiry had been appointed to investigate the condition of the poor in that country, and that Committee reported that there were no less than 2 285,000 persons - who were out of employment for three parts of the year, and that the proportion of labourers, compared with the land under cultivation in each country, was five labourers in Ireland for one in England. The average rate of wages in Ireland could not be said to be equal to 3s. a week—if they were as much even as 2s. 6d. The most worthy labourer in the Country, who was as well deserving of ade quate support as any man in the land, could not obtain, by his industry, better subsistence than potatoes in the best of seasons, and in bad seasons he was reduced to a state of starvation. The attempts at im proving cultivation by the ejection of pauper tenants, and the consolidation of farms, only led to agrarian dis turbances, in which the starving peasant was urged to the Injury of property by the impulse of despair. When he considered the subject, and found it stated in the Parlia mentary papers that in many of the colonies of Great Britain the bounties of nature were absolutely unavailing for want of bands to gather the fruity, he felt it his duty to call upon the Government to furnish means for trans. ferring the surplus of the mother -country to the colonies. In urging this subject, he was influenced not only by a regard to the interest of the labourer who emigrated, but also to that of those who remained, as it was the only way of raising the rate of wages to their proper standard. It was difficult to say abet would be the number of labourers required to emigrate f rom I re l ane l f or that purpose ; but I to give to give each labourer the comparatively small pittance of Is. a day, 100 000 labourers, at least, must have the means of emigrating. If any gentlemen were insensible to the considerations of humanity, as connected with this question, ah.hough he did not think there were gay such, yet if there were, be would appeal to them on the ground of self-interest, that they should recollect that heseeforth Ireland was to be subject to the Poor-laws. and when the workhouses were completed, and the able-bodied labourer applied for admittance for himself and hie family, ret the ground that he could not procure work, his appeal would be irresistible. And would it not be better, he would ask, to afford him facilities for emigrating to the colonies rather than to maintain him at home as a burden upon the Poor-rates? The -Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, and several other Members, in the discussion of the Poor-laws for Ireland, admitted that the Poor laws must be considered in reference to a system of emigration. He considered that as a, pledge upon the part of the Noble Lord; and he called upon him now to redeem it. He considered tha t he had already establi s h e d t h at t h ere was an excess of population in this country—( Hear. hear)—which kept the price of labour too low, he would then proceed to the other part of the subject, and show that in many of the colonies there was an increased demand for labour. In doing so, he would cot6ite himself to those colonies in which the climate was suited to European constitutions—Ve would therefore ex elude the Mauritius, Jamaica, and Demerara, although he bad been informed that in the island of Jamaica Euro ?cans were healthy, and that one most respect,ble house en the City bad during the last year sent out no fcacr tEan 141 Irish labourere, who were doing well. However. be would confine himself to the colonies of New Smith Wales and Australia ; and he would prove, frien docu =ants which had been laid on the table of the House, that in those colonies there was an intense demand for labour. It was clear from the evidence of Mr. Walker and others that there was a great demand in Australia for emigrants, and in New South Wales there was a great want of labour, if the reports of Mr Pinneck and Mr. Elliot: ' • we ,•e correct. In South Australia, which was the most su a e n c t et the experiments in colonizati on . a s : m il ar w 7 g and in Western Australi a th ere was a s.;_ x fu is l .i o ed m great defier:P(l in labour, and an u rgent an d i m • mediate nstecesitfor procuring a supply.—( Hoar, h e a r . ) la conformity with the view which be bad taken of the demand for 171atatir in 11 . pper Canada, he would a pp ea l to the communication of the Secretary of th e C ana d a L and appeared th a t th e rate o f wages Com e any, from which ie Upper Canada varied fro:" 3s. 61. to 7e. 61. a day. He would mention the success w hi c h h ad attended an einier tion which had taken place from the ce,:mty of Clare, dur ing the course of last year. They had sent out from that county 1.281 labourers, under the superintendence of • Lieutenant Redburn, to Upper Canada. Lieutenant Red burn bad taken these persons to Cobu e Up per Ca nada, add they h a d not b een there thr ° ee r-in days before they all got employment, and the wa ges 2/. 103. a week each. H e had placed in G they r ece i ve d were his v hands, a ithie the last few days, a statement of the ;err Upper Canada Land Com pany . a pp that t f he e Company bad sent out instructions to t heir certain the condition of persons whoad w i e n a re g e e n t i n i t l i s s, arrears to a s qu e n c i e n to the Company, and the agent h r eturned a full report on the subjectr these e e re po rti e 29had qu estion related to 156 families. Of no capital whatever on their first arrival in the Province. These 129 families consisted of 436 per sons, not one of whom. on their arrival in the Province. was possessed of any property whatever, and yet at the time the report was made, the aggregate amount of pro perty eon tied by these persons amounted to 22.65tei that was nearly 200! for each person, and these were net by any means the most favourable cases; these were the CUSS of these who might be considered as the insolvent?.— those who were in arrears with the Cempaey—but the was sufficient to show that Canada was a country whole the poor man could get ad. q sate remuneration for his la. bout. With regard to New Brunswick, he tveuld morel) refer to the Address of the Governor, Sir John Harvey. itewhich it was s e ate d t h at t h e h i gh price of labour i n t h at country was actually cramping the enterprise of the coloey. Raving now shown from undoubted evidence that a vast proportion of the labouring population of this coun ry, al though of good character, and of industrious habits, were unable to obtain the necessarie s of life 'while in the colo nies there was a great demand fir labour, '' he thought he bad-made out hi s case , and that it was the duty of the Go vernMent to furnish these persons with the meeni of em i • grating to the c o l on i es , where the: could i procure a proper Happily, compensation for their Labour. P ti P o l li Y, no prejudi ces now existed on the subj ect o f emigration a the work ing classes, and b e b e li eve d that trial:lV those prejudices bad bee n p r i nc i pally owing ettireesitTetierl °; transportation as a punish m ent, an d he could not let t h atopportunity pass without !wing his opi n i on t h at the countr was greatly indebted to the fi,m Bsrt. the gember fur Leeds, aild to the 4relatiehep of Dublin fee the trorts be bed made to 'induce the Government to give up tranapor• r., P' s easases wer e r ,... _ lion, to -how Inv in tee jeer 1833 ne less than 100.000 voluntarily went to other ceuntrias. During a period e l 13 years, no less than 348 000 persons emigrated to America—now if proper means had been taken with our own colonies, nearly all of those persons might have beet, living under the sway of her Majesty. It was objected that emigration tended to remove capital from the cowers —now, the greater part of the wealth of any emigrant went to the shit ping interest, upon which the country so much depended, and the wealth in the colon s was trea , ,cl by the labour cf the emigrants. Among other ohj that he bad beard with respect to emigration was, that the vacuum it created would he speedily supplied ; stow he thought that could not be the case when the increase and decrease of the population was looked at ; and when it w. s recellected bow few attained 18, compared with the num ber bo-n. He trusted that he had now made au a case fur colonization on a national scale, area it remainte only that he should examine wire had been done, and what to do. The Hon. Member then entered into a detail with respect to the number and condition of persons who had emigrated, and referred to the reports of Sir R. Hawkins and Mr. Wak. field upon em the iss A io s o for s G u o p ir r t; i r ri n t m „r e id n i t ng imd now emigration, a he hoped for better principles being laid down, and rigidly adhered to, and that the question of emigration to New Zealand would be recon sidered, for there was a fine field for our over-population. He only asked that the Government should remove those thousands of poor people who were starving in this coun try. The case was so important that he thought the country could not do better than advance some millions for the purpose of facilitating emigration to our colonies ; and if on the principle which was acted upon at first in South Australia, it would be a source of profit to the nation He further called upon the Government to take immediate steps for settling a colony in New Z eland. In British Ame rica there was not less than seven millions of unsold laud that would form a fund at once to be applied to the pur poses of emigration. There was nothing asked for so ear nestly in our colonies as capital for public works ; those public works could not be carried on without labourers ; the two things must go together, and he was fully persu ded that the proprietors of land in the colonies would willingly submit to a tax upon land for the purpose, and that tax would be a sufficient security for this country in advancing the necessary funds. He bad purposely ab stained from proposing any new plan ; all he wasted was that the Government should carry out plans which had already been tried wi Is eminent success. The Noble Secretary for the Colonies had already connected his name with malty great works f m the benefit of the nation ; let him then attend to plans for emigration, and in his admi nistration he would have to boast that the cry of hunger was no loneer heard in his own country He concluded by putting his motion into the Speaker's bands. Mr. HUTT seconded the motion. He was sorry to see that the question was so distasteful to the House, and that it did not command a fuller attandence. Many persons thought that Chartism was exttect, that because the U.aders were put in confinement the people were satisfied; he thought that was a delusion; i: was impossible that the violent speeches of a few demagogues could • have rous•'d millions of our fAlow countrymen, into a rate of rebellion if there were not some Si cret but awful evil in their own condition. It could not be doubted that there was much in the present condition of the work ing classes in this country which called loudly for redress. There might be, it was true, no great want of employment for our labouring population in times of prosperity, but wh en periods of calamity arrived thousands of labourers were left without the means of obtaining bread for them selves and their families, or were reduce d to the most scanty pittance. If any means could be pointed out for improving such a state of things, it would certainly be the duty of that House to give the subject its most sterioua attention.--( Hear, hear.) It ;voile be found, however, tnst o u r Colonies affirded very different prospects to the labouring population from those which this country off red. In the Colonies there were many inducements to industry and exertion ; these were sure to be rewarded. A letter had lately been put into his hands by a tradesman in Lon don, written to him by n friend of his in Ade. laide The letter was signed William Carter, and the writer of it said that be would strongly recommend the party to whom it was addressed, as a father of a family, to emigrate. He stated, that though his circumstance s might not be considered bad in London, when he corn oared them with his prospects wh. re he was then he felt he had been a slave in .very sense of the word. There was no such thing as a beggar in Adelaide, and every man was better fed and better clothed there than he could ever hope to be in either England, Ireland, or Sestland. The Hon. Member proceeded to say that the truth wits, that many of our labourers were aware of the adcatttages o f emigration, and would be re ady to emigrate, we re it not that they had not the mimes of purchasing a passage. The object of the motion, then, before th e Heuse was, to give them the means of effecting such a passage. He did not think that such a demand would be refused by the Noble Lord, the present Secretary of the Colonies. He had imagined that the accession of the Noble Lord to his present office would be the commence. tnent of a new era; but the spirit of th e Colonial apartment would seem to have come over him. —(Laughter.) What was it that his Hon. Friend asked? He asked for nothing except that the funds provided by the colonies themselves, instead of being squandered on retainers, should be carefully gathered up and prudently administered as an emigration fund for the benefit of the poor of ibis country. He wished to instance the case of the Cape of Good Hope, from which this country derived 30 0001. a year, and which was decaying for want of labourers. while those 30,0001. were wasted and turned to no account. He would gladly support the motion of his Hon. Friend. He believed, that if the principles of that motion were properly earned out, they would be produc tive of the best results, without causing the slightest injury to any individual in the country,_(Heaar, hear.) Mr. LUCAS thought that the country was much indebted to the Him. Gentleman who had brought for ward the motion. He could not help expressing his sur. prise at the state of the House on an occasion of so much importance, and he was sure that if some party question were under discussion the Benches around him would pre sent a very &ff. rent api earance from that which they then offered.--(Hear, hear, hear.) The question before the House was ore which involved the most serious in terests. The labouring classes, both in England and Scotland, were at present in a very precarious condition, while in Ireland their position was still more deplorable. The object of the motion of the Hon Gentleman was to devise a remedy for those evils He believed the re were various modes by which the main objection—that of ex pense—might be reduced, for instance, by making the expense of passage recoverable by suit at law in the coun try to which the emigrant went He did not believe a mo ion of greater importance could come before the House, and it had his most cordial concurrence. Capt. BOLDER() wished the Hon. Gentleman had also introduced a motion with respect to New Suutb Wales. The Government had stopped the supply of con vict emigration, and refused to supply them with other labourers out of their own funds New South Wales had a population of 100 000 souls, and was taxed to the amount of 250,000/ per annum, tieing 21 103. per head. All admitted we had a superabundant population, and it mattered not whether emigration was that of the civilian or the soldier—there was now a glori‘ us opportunity of a new systt mof military colonisation from Canada. It would be like a change of quarters to the seldiar—he had not the feelings for home which restrained other emigrants Look at the desertion in Canada—it toek place by tens and twenties. They lived near the United States, who were desirous of men, and held out inducements to them to settle among them, but England held out none to them to remain Why then should not a system of military emigration be formed? He did not expect the Noble Lord to take up the subject, but he wkhed the Noble Lord would allow some Member of the Heuse to do so. He (Capt. Bold,ro) should be happy to afford every as sistance in his power to carry such a system into effect. Mr. VILLIERS said the Hon Genticiman had correctly stated Vae advantages of emigration, but they appeared to him to entertain a crotchet that this was the sole method of relieving the distresses of the people of this country. It he were a landowner it, Ireland, he should be eager for this project, but he could net understand how anybody oppeai d to the present Corn-laws could think it wise to raise *a fund in this country to promote emigration. It must be ad mitted the Corn-laws did prevent employment, and there fore they were going to send people where they could be fed, because they refused to feed them at home. He did not believe in any necessary redundancy in labour; if we extended our commerce instea I of restraining it, it would be found there was not a man too much. If ern,- gration could be shown to be necessary, he would willingly join in this vote, but otherwise he could not do so. He did not object to employing the funds raised by the sale of land in the colony for the purpose of emigraiien, but he thought to tax the paoele of this country fur that purpose was imoolitie and unjust. Sir ROBERT H. INGLIS commenced by exclaiming Ecce ife,um Crispinus! Notwithstanding a four nights' debate on the Corn-laws, the Hon. Gent. could not for bear making another speech on the subject. However dry was the bone thrown to the Hon. Gent., he ever con. trived to make a fond question out of it.—(Laughter.) A; the Duke of Wellington had said, we could have no " little war," so could we have no little system of emigra tion. Tho Glasgow Protestant Emigration S iciety—and he attached great value to that word " Protestant "—had, in a petition to that House, well statue that large multi tudes of our fellow -countrymen were daily rising, amidst ignorance, poverty, crime, and misery—that a well-ar• ranged system of emigration would remedy this en irmous evil —and that to this end the poorer classes should have very encouragement and aid to emierate to our colonies. There were politico economical, theoretical, abstract ob jections, perhaps. to such a course. But while hundred , of thousands were pining in distress, let not such cold• hearted theories prevent the Government from doing what their best motive s would prompt them to do. He could rneoctoslilteeetointege the wi oig without adverting impo to great importance of us of • l :he of ourigoisousinstr fellow and th e means ofuPteolng finding t wo n r ' s h b n i l4 P r fo e ; s u bj ects w h o should emigrate to the colonies—thus benefiting alike the empire and its depend -ncies. Mr. WARD remnrked , not i,eu a s s s o i i , d ,a, bri t n ,f e inAtien.at he excituhet ethver,ltizt:inf;irmoncinttocotuhlde v im , )nhse..e: colonies the nt ii e however , eau tr s 0 fwsuuuel such e d a o . time, and a laugh.) The h Go ver nm en t , lo f(niri. --' ( Bear, hear, •Noll to shun for entailing on any Zf hY our e . s ) inhi L is e h t m any the en t e;ilat e v p elusive Frotes'antism.—( Hear, Govern ment stef.r clear of any re ligi ous —it was the rock on which the peace of assuredly be wreck-cl.—( Hear, hear.) Tahheayelleoolfontnewoduisid. had sneered ~. iii e t i rr i i n o b ne c ee o t: l cold on theartedethd e a gfa i ~s' t politic al 9 a . - a r e o c n : t t n r o e m ss y — ll e y i s , t t ) had the powerfully n o . wive!, would cheapen corn to femishinc thonsandsnrnn. measure ••mployed artiatns ,--( H-ar, hear.) How" ter, with h 9 Corn-laws this qu-stion had no home !late connectio n. Nor could he (Mr Ward) admit that th ,, r...pe•l of the Corn laws must be sought after in utter clisregird to a n d neglect of this important question. For of this he was plesuaded.—that there was distress grid athery enough in THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3, IP4O . the country to require both measures—convinced as he f observations, avoided the details of the way in which these •,. • :•,• C) ; heo C•G rees , cl..red, ii was 11lAt tire gr,:arest. dab coin( s existed, and it was upon those that the persons who confounded very sound maxims would find themselves disappointed, unliss they took the greatest care in providing the uterus of carrying them into effect. In the first place with respect to a large grant of money by the State. 0 nitting all other con.iderati ihs it :a. a ques• lion where great burthettl were :.Ir , .ady 'eel on 'lie ropie, had where further arLitioa; :o the se ieitderie • ete :squired by the exieenci, a of tie. s a questien whetter these burdens slieuld be t h e roa s e l for r.ucti a hut_ pose In the test place the manner in wii ch the emtgra. tion, was to take plies, and the elas:s to which it w.is to be applied wire, in thetmelv 5, maters of great dtfeuit ti with the Sate. The person s who wished to I aye toe country and to take their lab tor to ti r mark. is w•re these who were least profitable at h ote, anti who Attolo form the ereatest burl. n upon the coloni! a to whic,, .bey would In'grto lo the coloni -s the elij, et aas ea.u.atly ff character, th e o hj- T: there being to labourr>hr_ain the those who Wtwe're Wrest able to give effieieer work, and not th e idi ot and ctildren. N ow t h e d : e Hon. Gentleman seemed to suppeie the: with regard to the..e labourers the re was great denial-, on their part, and that they would be teen' s ollCuu to r m•grate, bur from the papers which had beet, laid on 'fir table it by Lo means appeared trim sneh was the ease. I ti , e letter of Mr. Smith. c"ntaining in,t.uct , ons to emig , ants, it. was st, bet that the elites most wanted in the Colonies were those who were in the greatest request at home. Therefore, the fact was, that with regard to emi_ grants burdened with young children and old persoes. there was no doubt a great wish to obtain the means of emigra tion to the Colonies, but these were the very clans whom the Colonies did not want, and who were considered in the Colonies as the greatest injury and evil that could be in- flicted on them. If, on the other hand, they confined t hem- Y•elves, as the Colonies endeavoured to confine themselves, to the emigration of young couples who were able to work and earn a subsistance in the Colonies, then they would find, and he ( Lord John Russell) was not sorry far it, that those persons were the parties moat in repute at home; and that they obj ec t e d to em i grate to strange lands, arid declined the boon that was offered to them. When these parties erriveU in the colonies, if they merely said that the ship should carry out a certain number of emigrants, and that they made no provision in the colonies to which they went—if they had not lands in which to locate them, and if there were not some public works on which they could be employed, in short if they did not make some provision before hand, they w:uld be furnishing moans bi which those persons uld be transferred from a state of hardship and rldfieulty in their own country, to one i.f much greater priv.ttion an misery in the colonies. He had very lately received letters from the Governor of Jamaica, and the Governor- General of Canada, praying that, in any measures hid) might be adopted for the promotion of emigration, due care would be taken that they might 'lave sufficient notice, in order that those emigrants would be provided with work on their arriv..l. He said this merely by way r,f a ivneral caution, least tic Hou.e might act open the idea that they were in a country abeundir,g in population where persons could nut ilardstt;ps to undergo, sn'i4 r °wt..; ,:s,t G. ti, ,_ ~; , ( H %o‘ oo , s again-: !Iv devotion of direct vexation on the people of tnis coui.tev for the purpose of emigration.--( Hear.) Nor was there any necessity far it; nor was it at all implied in the resolu tions of the Hon Member for Limerick, otherwise he bould vote against them, beitau e in the colonir s there were already funds sufficient fel- he purpose, or which, at all events, should fist be t xhausted f-r the purpose, namely, the produce of the tied sal•-s —( Hear.) That w as the legitimate resource for such en ohj et. And ,t was to b! hoped that when the Sec.etary for he Colonies had more leisure amidst his numerous and pres sing avocations, be would carry out th e v i ews cent in hia r late insoucticns to the Cohmial Land C , mmiAsioners; in most ro hick he (Mr Ward) concurred, particularly in 'he admissions they contained of the importance of mi. erarimi, and tip th fiwtion of the duii, s which the Com missioners should discharge: the collection ,f pecuniary an -I , ta , istwal details—the etstiitmtitri aid application ~ 1 The Land Sale Funds to emigration—its management an direction. Tne main point in w hien he doubt d thei, efficiency was in the absence of any 1 3, rliarneteary enact ments, to invest the Commissioners with that authority without which all their effrrt- would he depeneeat n t will of constantly-changing ColoniA S et-wail-Rs application of the produce of the Colonial Lind Sales to the purposes of emigration, was a principle nominally r. - cognized, but really is terly disregard, d, and the abuses which had taken place were enormous and dis eraccfal.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The purposes for ehich these funds should be applied, ought to be defined limited, and protected by the only mode in which it could be effectually done—by Parliamentary enactment. The purposes to which the land tune might be diverted ought to be specified, its kgitirnale purpos s being emigre tion. Those purposes ought to be specified in at, Act of Parlinetit, for he had seen enough of the insufficiency of instructions from the Colonial Office, and of the futility of pledges of the Secretary of State, to place any reliance on either, unless they were embodied in an Act of Parliament. —( Hear, hear.) In a Committee, of which he had the honour to be Chairman, when it was suggested that en Act of Parliament should be founded on the resolution, it was asked what could be more binding than the pledge of the Colonial Secretary? But it was subsequently found that not more than half of the sum which was promised to b.' applied to emigration was applied to that purpose; and when it was complained that the Governor of the Colony had diverted a portion of the fund to purposes which ught to have been met by the Treasury, or by local taxation, the reply of his Noble Friend, the Secretary for the Colonies was, that it was a very delightful and really useful thing—(A laugh)—fur the Governor of a Colony to have at his disposal a fund which he might apply to meet other wants besides the purposes of emigration. !n this respect the colony of Australia had an advantage in the Act of Parliament under which it was formed. —( Hear, hear.) To the application of the land fund to local pur. poses there welt) many of jections. The I fit•et of such taxation was to ihroa the enti'e burden of the local expe•- diture upon the buyers of lend, who purchased in the first instance on the faith that they w. re paying out of the purchase money a portion of their greatest expense in cul tivation, which was the ircportation of lab iur. H. =t ur ~~,pr,i L' .. 4 .. ,nest ~~. .~ i‘lurb hick t ~1; .'. f~ tee () e-ere e A I , i ,' L lh i e .;; ;;;; e ee . ; , far from aiding the cause of emigration, which they ought to encourage and regulate upon principle, they would be introducing a system calculated to discourage whole some emigration, and from the consequence of which both the State and the colonies must suffer —( Cheers. ) Sir IZOBER PEE L wool t opt) se hr t e , t 1 0 0 l f the Hon. Getelemee. re sameeieg p• ece -61" U •i I te%foutien o, , b Mts , - in a si , utltiau of - the er ee• s diffieuity 'o ;:fli ae eh., (act principle. unless at the same time sem•• medied eme shown of carrying the principle our.—(Ch , , , s ) Gentler' en came doe n to Parliament asking h• in .o affi abstract principle, and, having dote so, hey slit itet the hutelen e..tireey from their own shoulders, and left it it, Peril onent le 6 d the , means it carry ing out the pr.n i It titer ha.l :Atoned. But he ent mimed Are -it doubts to V;(. • oriiiciph• of these reeotuitous. Ti..' Hon Gen. tleman propeeed two r. ; of which ffirmed that the working classes in Great Britain and Leland were frequently exposed to great privations from ail inability to procure employment, end the other that in several of tne British colonies the derrian-1 for la. hour ass urgent, continuous, and increasing, and its re muneration comparatively smote. N-es he had follewed that up by a third resolution, stating that it was desirable to retrieve every obstructioo in the way of pereees desirous of emigrating to the colonies that would be a logi al sccpieace ; but to say that those who could best afford to pey, that the colonies, where the demand for labour was urgent, and its remuheratiett ample, should be at no ex pense. and that the mother country should be at the whole expense of the emigration of those persons to the colonies which would be benefited by their labour, was a sequence by no means logical. If the remuneration were ample in the colonies,ought not the colonies to pay part of the expense? The Hon. Gentleman said the demand was urgent ; if there was any obstruction in the way of emigration re move it ; if there was any facility wanting supply it ; but if the demand for labour was urgent, and the remunera. tion ample, why shou:d they give a bounty upon its ex port ; and why should the state be called upon exclusively to give that bounty ? Suppose the Hon. Gentleman was to affirm that there was a considerable quantity of ma chinery lying idle in this country, and that it might be most usefully etnployed in the colonies, he could not suppose that therefore the S ate should be at the expense of the transfer of that machinery. He (Sir R Peel) could not see any difference in the principle.—(l4ea r .) But the Hon. Gentl :men had made the demand for labour the ex clusive test for sending it out to the colonies. He did did not say that there were political reasons fur encour .g meg emigration to particular Colonies, but he said that eini grat ton she old take place to those colonies a hich offered the greatest reward for industry. This resolution completely ed them up. It might be politic to increase the British enpulaiion to Celia :a, so as esentually to overpower the French opulwion, and it might be politic in the Sate to employ its funds in sending its -urplus population to to Csn..da for that purpose; but the Hen Gent stepped in with his resolution and pi opesed such atest es should restrict the Oruro; to proinotieg ern;gration to those eolenies which off led the greatest rewards to industry. Perhaps at the present time the colony et British G. ff (1110.1 i cieeeeee•ee d set reLien. --i s if- .t, i.ear, b e e . ) when be (Mr. Sr rgeaet TaltOurd) heard that M r . Vin.. cent was transferred to a prison which was intended solely for criminals who had been sentenced to transportatien, he felt that it was a punishment which the Judges did not at allcontemplate when they pe , sed the sentence Tbe psi ibitr4ll :ha, c•, fly!. I ;“ k . F••Kro, 0 eeeotes ee .. ; i ,„; ee a e eiiee re ee tee erie.e• I irc,R, re the p , Ji,eiplin aced t. bus he ewe pre‘ente. fr. , " coniniunice to will) hi, 1 lends ( c , en by letter) more fre quently thin once in feurinenths. —( Hear, hear ) Irt the , ulee of the Penitentiary it was stated that the permis-ien 14 as given Li ceder to enable the p isonere to k ep up a Sibitrit.xi,n with respectable persons, through %bow means afee wards their reformatio n rnignt bee ffeeted. an .1 not fear te.e titers,' f step doting' Them with the • ews of the day. rn.t v as a regulation re hich c• uld not at all refer to the case of ',Leh a person as sir. Vincent.—( Neer, beer. ) When the punishment of imprisonment was enacted for effences of the kind of which the petitioner had been found guilty, those additional severties were riot contemplated When Sir Charles Wolseley was sentenced te imprieen meta for salssee upon himself the effi .e of Parliamentaey attorney, he was not only allowed indtegences to prison, but he was permitted to go out of the geol to listen to the trials. When Mr. Lovett, the proprietor of the Statesman was imprisoned for seditious libel, h.' was tint only 'to commun?ceic daily with his friends, hut to edite his Paper, and the proof-sheets were regularly transmitted to him for correction. Mr. Cobbett was also allowed to edite his Register," and occupy handsome apartments, provided with every convenience, during tiie term of his imprisonment.—( Hear, hear.) It should be remembered that there were peculiar circumstances con nected with the law of libel, which rendered it neceseery Viet the punishment appointed by the Judges should not be resider d more severe. In the case of the conductor or publ slier of a newspaper there was frequently no moral respnnsibility. There was frequently no possibility of the publisher reading all the articles.--( Hear, hear ) In the case of Mr. Lawson, a most respectable publisher, if the sentence of the Judges had been carried out in the same manner as in the case of Mr. Vincent, would it not he admitted that thepuaishment greatly exceeded the offence ? He kuew it might be said that such offences were of as deep moral character as others more ignominiously punished.—(Hear, hear, hear ) But the human mine! required something more. It required that appropriateness of punishment, without which no public good could be eff-cted.--( Hear, hear.) Would the public endure that the pnaishnient of high treason by a person of high renk and scholarly attainments should be public whipeieg ? i Hear, hear.) In the case of pillory, when an officer 0 f high rank and considerand achievements in the service of his country. was sentenced to that punishment, not oily was the punishment not infl clef!, but the pillory was abo. lished.—( Hear, hear.) With respect so the severities of the punishment of imprisonment, th, re was no respensibr lity as to the extent to which it might be carried. The Judges .bo pissed the sentence lied no control over tne Justices who regulated the prisons —the ..lietice e we re con trolled only by the Home-etfice, and the Horne, ffice did meony ei ruiana I ffei ett tie gr e at. ho t interf re with the M,g, sira • ea , tgistr a• ea. I l nie case of Mr __ ...., , ebtainwoik. w hile i n t h e c o lonies laneur was exceeedingly est rew a rd to Midst) indus•ry. and in accordance Kith the Fear g u s O'C onnn - , i f t h ere was one went of truth in the would not go into minute details. whi c h hi s N o ble Friend, the Secretary for th e C e l t n i es. h a d a d m i tte d sought afte r , ant i shit its r ew a rd was very gr eat , an d t h at reso l ution t h ey should, prefer sending emigrants to statements—the Judges, in passing the sentence, did not in his instructions to the Cominissioners, b u t h e m ust e x. it was a v er y easy t i t i„ g , requ i r i ng very little cure to get rid of Demerara and British Gui.ina to sending them to Canada; contemplate any such punishment as that gentleman vre.s press a hope that the Noble Lord would n e t dis a ppoint th e the superabundant popula ion at h ome . N o d ou b t t h ere but it eh' not follow that the State should find the mean s subjected to. The regulario .5 of the prisons ought to be expectations which bad be e n m id out t o t h e ' , m e re or was muc h to b e d hie i n t ~,t wa y, and touch tied b• en ehen British Guit us itself could well afferd to find the such that the Judges rzhould know the conseq•iences ot the appointment of a Commission, It hi s Noble Friend done by means of the Enpgretiou Cormei , sioners, means for the tranaPort of any labour that it might re_ their sentence. All who took part ire the Legislature shiireet aid nut wish to see the instructions mere was t e paper, h e I t appear. d that up to ihe year 1837 630,000 pt r- quire —k Hear ) Toe' Hun. Gentlemen also proposed in the resoonstieloy.—( Hear.) Thiele- c,.uld be' no excuse. should give art assuranee that a 811 should be brought in sons had b'en sent eut to the c"loeiess and since to fureisn mittens to the lebouri e g class who might be de- —( Hear.) The Mena-els of that House were all guilty it b y t h e commencement o f next Session, to carry into eif et 1830 nearly 1,000.000 of persons had emigrated. s'rous of em grating. There was no specification as to the the: Governer was alto e..d t o conti nue th ose regulations _ th e views laid d own i n these i nstruct i„ ns . H e had a great Hi. Hon F. i• nd said t h e s u ms r e ceived by the sale of land number in a Lindy. A man with five or six children ( Hear,) He appealed to Kin. Gentlemen oppo-ite, who objection to leave the expe nses o f emigration to the dis in the Aul'ali'in eo'n"ies w's an entirely new fal , d, and might be the n ost desirous of eniigi :sting, but it by not referred with pride to the times Alien their party was in cretion of the Lords of the Treasury and t h e chanceihe not known unifisre 1831. and therefore the Government h a d means , f o ll owe d t h at b e wes the fittest person to emigrant, power, and wh en the punishment of politi ca l effences wets of t h e E xc h e qu e r. He would much rather see the pr o p er on light to giant it fer these purposes Now, he con or the une !0 e hole assis'aece should be effirded. He did much more lenient. —O ver ) Th e H on , and L earne d funds applied 'o the purpose under the contr o l of t h e Co. s id ere d if th. se were new res. urces air ernier eten, it was +tut no an to say that no fatality should he af- Gentleman concluded by moving that :in bumble address lonial Secretary under the regulations of an y et of Par. rig h t the Gevernm••rit should serail e some credit for th en , e•ot e d to emigration. The State might interfhie to be presented to her Majesty for the rem ova l i• liamenr, with ut which there could b. , no h o p e o f t h e f und b ecause, b efore 1831,f Mr. Yin. these w , re fusde nut knovvo to toe ff id accurate information as to th e state o f t h e rent to another gaol, or for the r e m i ss i on o f a part of his e be i ng turne d to the service er the colony, dud th e b ene fi t Government, aad owing to a faulty ay-tint. the lands bed d ffsrent Colenies—'o see that the e migrant ees els sentence, in consideration of the suff er i ng w hi c h h e h a d en . of the labouring classes of this country. heel , grant . d without suffivieto di crintireoion ; suet, at all were properly p VERNONovided with medi ca l ass i stance, and were lured. M r. sM I I'H s a i d t h a t h e would not events, that th e Films were no: appli•'d to the iransniiss'on not in a defective state. But there was great danger in Mr. WILLIAMS said, as the Hon, a n d Le arne d M eal have propo s itio n of hi e H on . an d a t t. o f em i gran t s , as t h ey b a d b. en s i nce t h at period, B ut t h e S tate being at the eapenee en the treester ut ieouur tier had stated, in extenuation o f M r . V incent ' s case, th a t lent Friend ut' r i fere Fr'ietdodppwolstih the te,to send this que s ti on to a C. n an o. hi- , Hon. Friend argued, because the sums &need from from one country to an ot h er . I t was easy to talk of the he took no part in the outbreak at Monmouth, he must tee, if he did not think that nothing could more ob s t ruct t he l an d sa l es h a d been api h ie d to th ,, car , i,g, of em i_ f unds of the State , but how were those funds raised except admit the truth of that statement, inasmuch as Mr. Yin the proper dis c harge of the duties of the Coloni a l Office. grants from this country to Australie, they should be a l - by taxes? Gentlemen always talked as it' the State rent, fortunately tor himself, co u ld no t t a k e p art i n t h e His Noble Friend the. Colonial Secretary and himself plied to no o th er purpose, which w•is going hey oe d th e e st i l arge f un d s i nto which it was easy to dip their hands, disturbanc es , b e i ng i n pr i son at the time. But he might be appoiiited on sum) a Cometitteu —( H ear , an d ieginal i ntere i ons o f th e Goverement. and what the. H e did no t k no w h ow the ueeessary funds acre to b i- (M r. W i ll iams) b eing a resident Magistrate of the a laugh•) He could nut give a g e n• rat contradiction t o House would reasonably ask; because, although it was if - raised exc. pt by taxing some party or another. After all, county, felt bound to say th a t M r , V incen t h a d t h e propueition of the Hon Meenb r fear Lia t e.i e k. Hi- sirable these auto, derived froth the sale 01 land should be what was the proposal unless that one class of th e commu. b-en the chief cause of all that had occurred. eredd not deity the exig e nc e of great distr. s, in ' r el en d spelted to eruigration•aod ' e agreed mthe utility of rpplying oily should be taxed for the purp'ise of enabling another He bad no hesitation in sating that Mr. Vincent, - t h ee tie thought on the one hem" class to emigrate to a land in welch there Was a great de- tending those meetings, and carrying on the batpublio n and E gland. nor could be fumy tne expediency of dirril. intim for that putting!, it e „,,e„ e d t h a p e , c h., s ers of land within that reasonable (nand fur labour and an ample remuneration for it ? He called the Western Vindicator, had brought all the se niehitig at all times the temptations to erhee, and im proving the moral and physical condition of tar. peeple. ••ompase eithe r which tons and villa ; ; .s s h ou ld b e c o uld not s e e the justice of such a proceeding, and he did things to pass, and had placed a naturally qeiet penile in es p ec i a ll y w he n there was a g.,,, era t f ee l ing f or a delete,- ea -ewe& and on the other h.lid it sent the lab oin'r frhin nut !lila it edaisalhe 0, accede to the proposition then a State of insurrection. the L d place rgf. u urnreoeteicioeiensae.hrrin to the Alho ug h h e f e l t c „ t)v i ner d that eice Brestaaancyta, things i f e o m - r in. a 1 l Vincent thelh the way d w i as , h.O ofrd t a tion of punishmt nts, es w as exehp l i fi e d en th e notice of th e uiis chtehry to be eiritiloe* dOn the capital the re i n v es ted- before the House. His should obs er v e t h at , f or hi s . ef r , V incent had b a e ea' motion he H Member fer !pee ice, w hi c h stoo d on t h e paper f O He did not think they could lay it down es an iiivioleble psrt, h t e o t s h c ou . g h h t, t there wthai:iraesmtaotreasl of tenants, on for ttlhe.theh thne this day.--( Hear, I-ear ) H e admitted that the grew e rieciple uretold, tnat for the pu-poses of emigraon alone retold part of h ques ti on which ',glov e d th e colonial empire arcs the wan, eiese fault, let used, because lb , y came :hen to the qu"s• purpose of improving them, to provide by emigration, or tea been treated according to l aw . All h i , w i s h e d was to of labour, but be did not admit that there was not . ion to which they must arrive— name l y , as to t h e ot h er ., x - o th erw i se , f..:r those whom they had dispos. , essi•d of their guard the House against treating lightly the proceedings sufficient encouragement give nt o em i grat i on , H e 'eithe r eerises of the colony. If they were prepar e d t o say that holdings.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there existed of a man wh om he firmly believed h a d b een t h e pr i mary attributed the itieufficieney of emigration to the doubts ell other exp e ns e s o f th e c o l o ny s h ou ld b e b or „, b y t hi s suc h a moral o bl igation, and that it would otherwise be cause of all that had happened. entertained by those classes who might be expected to co u n t r y, to w hi c h ex t ent no d ou b t the proposition might impossible to palliate such acts as sudden notices of eject- Mr. FOX MA ULE said that his Hon. and Learned emigrate es to the prospects of improvement an d the fit. ';e carried, i t wou ld b e uuretvo „bl e ; b ut i f not , if thy - ment to ninety or a hundred families.—( Hear, hear.) Friend who had brought forward the present motion, ness o f t h e clim a • es an d circumstanc, a ut the colonies to said with regard to many of these expenses they must Proceedings of that nature might be justified on priori- and not informed hi m wi t h w h at h e i etan d e d their habits and resources. It was proposed by the lion, look to toe colony itself—he thought the colony itself and pies of poittical economy, but could not be justified on to conclude; but he was prepared to say, that Member fie Limerick, that every person who wished to emi. the i n h a bita n ts wou ld rather h ave t h ese sums d er i ve d f rom principles o f moral duty.—(Renewed cri es o f " H ear , b e cou ld not meet the motion he had made with grate should be enabled to do so at the p u bli c ex p ense; the s a le of th e l an d th an not h ave t h ese o bj ects prov i ded bear.") He thought th e st a t e oug ht t o b e cauti ous ho w it the assent which be wished. When he looked at the but he was sure the Kruse would not exp e c t th a t t h e G o . f or , if th e y wou ld grant l oca l taxes f or the purpose, or re li eve d priv a t e individuals from the obligation of provid- conduct of M e Vincent, and the sentence that had beet. vernment would ever consent to a resolution o f th at ki n d, i ncrease d d u ti es , h e s h ou ld b e very g l a d , b ut h e trig f or th e future maintenance of those who were driven passed upon him he thought trere would ho some risk in bolting out to the poor expectations which there w ere no thought neither the inhabit an t s o f . th e co l ony nor t h e o ut o f their possessions. He should object to the motion, raising popular sympathy for one who had clos.e so much means ot realizing ; but his Hon. Friend, the Member for emigrants would prefer their ) neglecting all other expenses befcne the Hou r s., as he !bought it was liable to many to disturb the peace of the country.—( Hear, hear,) Mr. Sheffield supposed that the land fund would be suffici en t fu r t h e sa k e o f promoting emigration , b ecause w h en a per _ obj e ctions . iEe.. feared that it would tend to disco u ra ge .t h e Vincent„ when his sentence was first passed. was confined for the expenses of emigration, if it were api.l ed to no oth e r son bought l an d there he r e q u ir e d th a t h e s h ou ld b e p ro _ exerti ons which 'night be ma d e by individuals or societies, in Monmouth gaol, and his Learned Friend admitted, that inn purposes. But if that were the ease, all those other ex. tected by police in the possession of it, and that if it w ere or pen hap, by t h e p ar i s h es un d er t h e p eer _l a , f or t h e that gaol indulgences had been shown him that were not gen eies to which the land fund was spotted, must f a ll taken, there sh ou ld b e an executive p ower t o a ff or d hi m emigration of labourers, and be would therefore vote fur srally given. He was allowed the free use of writing state of Mr. Marryat, the Visiting P upon the Treasury, and that could not meet the wishes of redress, without which no person would buy land or mi_ the amendment. •naterials, and what was the use he made of theni ? his Hon. Friend, who bad such a horror of that d e p ar t. gra t e t o th e co l onies , l' n „ re f ore, th oug h . h e th oug ht . . th e Mr. HUTT said in explanation that he had never con. Why,. to conduct his Journal called the Western meat of the public. service. But in cases iii which a l ff h . priumple sound as to the app!icadon of money arising templated . that a , fun . d for the purpos e o f emigration shoult: V ro tn ti , : ! o c . ta ti or e , h i a n d o t r h d e er to excite the people to acts of iesur. 2,t however he migl t Ilagistrate of the rences arose between the mother -country and the colons from the sale of lands in the colony, itwas (pounseht.adletdo by l ti tremderr.itedullhritini toaxißngatihF:sNcestaundtrtyo., on the question of' expenditure, where etas the fund to storeasonable extent, or involved a principle gaol, that the paragraphs sent from Mr. come from to meet it? those who argued that it should be applied to that pur- eitTer from some of the p rinc i p l es a d vanced by the Riel t Vincent for publi cat i on were of such a nature, that he felt it Mr. H U VlE—Lo ca l t axa ti on , poe alone, and tither meant that the administrationof Han. B.ro tt et th e M ember f or T amworth, he thought that eis duty to put a st op to t h em. Wnen the disturbances at Mr. V. SMI tH—But if th e l an d f un d were refused fir j usttce and the necessary expenses of the Executive , toe Righ i t Hun,. Baguet j o fl i d i e c o, t br h ; a tvo d rsv d efo r t in rh e ,itth m ho u ips e r h ier,ap b ,s y ,osn d ,, e 7 t! ,. o re u no n ori c ts i , n pd g oi t ii: h ,.. e . i N nf l g e , n i ji7utsotupitt,:her,ttoro;ekr p,,mlaLneud,ne,M,riy,r:fi:Nrhlaatthrreym-a,,art.keenvdoirnetthehereutottrsthen:quillNdi'lilsibitt..e; Visit purposes of police, and other charges, why should not all Wsharsiuldhnubnednettlecptreodvideor all l t t r h n o c s a i n . ; , x t , h ,e a n t se t , his ( c i o i t , l a ti r t . y ) i it r y i ;te r . ,, tr r i ti t is. cle f a i r e irt s local taxation be refused? Although he admitted that the mother.countrY must look t o a p er i o d w h en His Hon. F r i en d, :d ee d ar „ . . d,thatthe e i hnhs were ahi ,... iiia out arty spec ifi c nicatis f or ca rr yi ng his reseletions itio I removed from Monmouth gaol. Such a recommenda. her colonies may be able to protect a n d govern t h e ,. applie d by the G overnor of the Colony But is had e ff ect was t h at h e theu g ht that duty should devolve on the He, was scut to the 6eeretary of 6:ate, atiti selves yet until the colonies had arrived at that maturity, ,ever been proved there had been such m isappl ica t on , or Executive Government. He would not, however, pro's hen the question came—to what prison he should it was necessary fur her to maintain her control over them. 'hat the Governor asked for more than was necessary fur his motion to a division.en removed ? The only prison suppotted by the en d to pr oe id e for their expenees. He admitted that a ll the support of the Colonial Es tiblishment. A case took The motion was the iz, n oA n ni e Li e . : ‘iv t : it gA .ert irtos w b. it , h ito,gu t a di e i s i rn , sit RAS the P. uetentiary at Milbank, and to that orison . place lot long a e ,•ot He was sorry to fi•id the Ceuncil in in a Bill to pre. nurse when he entered the prison he wes suejected to ii, colonial expenses ought to be submitted to the Treasury. •herefore it was thought expedient to send him, 0 e an i.'s ty, l o ..a . t t i h d u c d a s a t t h e e c lj ort ß imun cation in certain cases, geld— Iscipline. Upon entering it. Mr Vincent felt it d ot m - t , o xli a e r n e s r e o s lu o t r ii t t ii n i. e p o i t ,i t i o e. pio T vi h d . e . vic L e er t. i . i r S i E w Y ß‘ M ay o but his Hon. Friend the :11 mbar fur Sheffi •Id seemed t, asst, that that should not be the case. as he was desirous to tVrannuDn.eietmh put all the matters into an Act of Parliament. Now he Governor asked them if they thought the p o li ce ex ce ssi ve , Cases h a d b eer , brought forward as evidence in which it , 0 be an tidy:image than an inconvenietice. and signed him would venture to say that it would be impossible for him ir the salaries too large. They were unaniineusly of appeared that the interests of the public had not beer -elf " her happy son." It Mr. Vincent had been suljected to d o so ; fur iu pp os i ng s u ch an Act was introduced, h e fir opinion that not a single man could be apart d, and that buffici . e tIY regarded , In aging thha he d d not meat, te re the strict discipline of Monm o uth gao l, he would h ay -, one eteedd Ike to see h ow the H on . Ault); r would pr e _ none of the salaries were excessive, but they %vete not dis. cast any impu ation against the Directors of Rattnr ) -uff red the same treatment he was at present receiving scribe to the Government or the country wh a t course ,h„, hose d to i m p o s e fr e sh b ur d ens for that purpose, but I , f i est ibiishm en t s , b, cause the evil was mete owing to the rite Government had felt that there ought to be a dts, inc. s h ou ld p ursue in the increased demand tor colonisati on; °r h o% t to be Provided for out of the Crown revetio e 'legit cl with niiieli Pet ' , amen? had, on the first esteblish ion between the puitishir e.t for f. l on , en d f or Im ii r i, v they w e r e no raise f u rth er mon e y for the wants of the e - derived from the sale of land; so that the question 1 , •19 went of the s - companies, omitted p ono re to le e isl e te. :iffeiees end in order io adopt the 'Penitentiary to the luny, b ecause if they came to Parliament it w ou ld 5ay....... -ens not whether there store ebuses iti this expendoute, but •Btu , it was net now too late to etienipt to remedy theevil , etter species of off •nees, it Kits int en d e d to ma k e You have an Act or Perliament aid you must st i,k by i t , whether these necessary expenses being to be provoleo and that was the main object of t h e Bill. t g is: Its fir st o.i j ect , Iteratioes in the regulations of that prison. It appeared He true ed in what he had said that it would not be ter, they shauld be provided tor, in the first pltee, out of would be to connect with the Board e t Trad e a deeart- it him that cases of the piesent kind entght ho nitt with suppescd th. re was a feeling at the Coleilialeiffice he land sale, the C. lonial funds, or taxes to he voted by merit, which shou,d have plAer ;o call for all eccoteits. tar bed. rin prisons of the deseriptlon of the Pi•nite ;dart agai n st erniereti o n. It cert a i n ty was ti r e duty o f th e G o he people of this eoentie. He believed this country a auttical arid fioanaial, cutinecti d with reilways, are'. than in rehe-e where Judg es mi g ht indi scr e emsh a y ssen - U v. riime n t, we e r,. pries were de s ir ous of . Entg, a ti oz . to would not be very wiling 10 hear this exit 'rise, sn't the l' o to ebt-in the i-foi illation, which was much a il •etders He could !lot consent to th e m o o t , of i i i, H in a s s i s t t h em as f ar as p ossi bl e _t eet was th e utmost w h ic h . Council were net willing loimpese new taxes on the col; e wanted it , the /louse, to enable it to judg• d Learned Friend that tie. Housoe ah„,id a d..b., a , he ; i n hi s opi n i on t h e G,,v ereiti e nt oug ht to do—they oug ht nits, and theref , re they resorted to the sale of land. I , l e how far the great Potveril with which the Companies Majes.y to remove Mr Vine_nt :moms to p enitent ,. v. not to f e nce emigration by holding out hopes that couto did net think it a wise application of the money. ta, had been entrusted, had been eix , reised for the benefit of e •causehhe only gaol to ethic!) he coidd be sett would i be never be realise a. fU e Considered the third resolution of bought the Gelonial . Council would de better to in. the public. Th en as to t h e by e -l aws o f the Companies, so Aluninoetle and he felt convinced that that pris on wee re of the Hon. Gentleman as 'calculate-el to do melting more (.re.i,e the leeal-ratt.s, and a ll , w the application of the ter as t h e y off' et e d th e publi c , they Were to he submitted more fit tor Mr Vincent than when he Wax retnoved-fro.nli than give an opportunity to every man who found him s elf and sales to emigration, by which the genital Piolouitt to this Board for Litpreital. Further, the Board teas th ti t o the Penitentiary. Hs. meet therefore ob' 'Ct 10 the ill at ease at home to call upon the G .vernment an .1 de- ~t th e Colony, increased ; b ut w hil e he sh , ce : i ..! , t:,(is he eave . the power of en l o , elog all Acts of Perhameut con remov •I of Mr. Vincent from the Penitenti iry,jhut at the ' mend to be transported to some one or other of th e coi n - could • not ag ree i n the ceristee ea the s'" 'Wry certinierailev e y s , s i nce cases h a d occurr ,,d i n which Cu,,.., „ rile t i me co „ seo n og to g ive hi m every to rence which ides. Th e en o -n o ,u s ex p ense on such a s y stem h e ne rd et' State, or the Treasury, n, r that which _was I.,.antes. had not acted in conformity with their Acts. The could be consistently given. The bide t ; part of nut detail to the Weise Tee whole tone of th,. debate o re conisenie ,,,, so l e l y o f t h e " r o u e no f the Colon') Mani w e r e f ur th er to have the power o f sen di rig i ns p ector ,. the proposition of his Honourable and Lear aF • ne . :lend had been so anate„hi e t h a t h e would no t dciaii, the House 'tot to provide for these expense•. T), e r,) ),, a ): a queseo, to railways either before or after opening, in order to ob. •te could aet consent to; name!that of . ' y, further than to say that to the two first resolution . there into which he would ...ot now enter, namely, At, thee having s rye the arrangements. to see any misconduct, and to re. to Mr. Vincent. etitod be to, (.13j c ti on , but us t o th e third resolu ion he established the system of tramp at-tour in New South monwrate thereon to the Directors. These were the main Mr. Sc. geent TA LFOURD— • That Is not the terms of trust , d t h e H ouse wo u ld ho t adopt it. The H o n. M em . Wal es an d Veit Diemen's Land, they had out thereht a:ive- ij r° ''almts of the Bill , and leaving their furth e r elucid a ti on eh.. un ti e .. ;i t i s to a t ir i d -, ..e: • , e ore punishment. bit cone.uderi by moving the le emus question, to th. se Colonies a beriefit which m o re than ceunierb . kill the measure was before. the House, he now would cone Mr. FOX , MULE stated that if ' Mr. SLAM EY r lioted th a t th e pr esen t question hae emcee! any additional ext. , rise entailed upon them in emit:. tent Infused wish simply moving f e perintssion to brut L • g earned Friend had given him the terms of his notice, he been biought so fully b fore the House, b. cause hI ir et. me, d 10 , , Ce —( Hear. hear.) He thought the: Coettee dor of it in.—le • are giveo, upon it es one of pereneunt into ;rfanee. To, senile.. tie Exche q u e r might Argue that they had, lor he tee s ii-. CASE OF VINCEN'I AND OTHERS. should have been better able to have met it. After reading the notice, he saw that its fled been discussed as a ceio n ed questiet, ; 1104. 11 Was 1,1 , .tt/te,l by . •gen• I. men aim preeessed fare eetates , n t i e . Mr. F, KELLY having postponed his motion res ect. abrid e the t .rms of sh _ purpose was to punt ment. But he did no: thirik intentien to take a diff , rent view ut t', surd c., m ,id ur it „, , ;,;,,L, n .„ and „h„ had er itte n a pamphlet in, the Atli c , it.g th e puht.hownt of di ash, on account of the latch of that g the 1' I Ilhe had yet arrived when such advice home question, and one text teas big bly lee. est he e t the price re free ter, . u r was 131 pet aiilllllll, and tree the teen (el• yen et,•lock ), could be given to her Majesty When the to the WOl king classes of th e tener.. lie agreed etre e thi' e or , it•ts tit, 61. ; this, hoo t ,. r, we: not a met er ut Mr. Sergeant TA LFOU RD said (after presenting crime of which Mr. Vincent bed b. n euilty w nis Hon. Foetid th. M e mber f o r Se. ffieid, that emigre principle but of account be i w"" the Coleny mud the inh. soin,• petitheis in favour of Marrs. O'Connor and Vim. censidered, and when the Hous fie d ee a 4 non should be elicouraged, but he doubted the propricit :her cotintry• H s Hon, Frisrei the alemher for Sh ffield cote), tie Lai now to trespass as shortly as possible upen had taken place in censequencee reflected that of ceiling upon th e G e v e rn me ut to pay the expenses of it dad complaint-d of th e iesuffieient instructions that bad be e n the :therein,' of dik. House in bringing forware pres eti t wo cases moment it was only blown over for a seaso ' n . he thought He begged to return hi' , thanks to the I-lon. M e mber f ie ,iv nto the Colonial C oni m ee ,„ o „ , b un h e ( Lord John i nro l,i, g th e vame principle thou g h the details were essen- they would agree with him that it would be it; rude Limerick fur the pains be hied taken on th e subject b ut h e te essi al) h a d t h oug ht th at it would b e b e tt er to appoint a daily ddierent, and he would first state the facts ef the remit the sentences of those who had been most i guilty to could r.ot agree with his conciudnig resolution, b ecause, if Commission that should attend exclusively to this subject, case of H• my Vine. nt, in whose favour the petition of the exciting the penile to those disturbances whit tot u lt i lace ) Government were to bs called them t o pr vide a free pas. an d rec ei ve all communications front the Colonies or from Radical Club had been presented. It had fallen to kit lot in the last autumn. He had no wish to see unneee P ssary sage for emigrants, such expense must be raised out of my persons; at home interested in the subject, and thus be aequieesome pea sohal knowledge of the cast and that know- severities praetised towards any.one, and he did not think th e taxes, anlthereity increase the burdens of the country, 'Pahl" t" perfect a system before it w , e , em o,d ie i it, ant ledge h a d b eer , acqu i re d i n a manner which those who were that they had taken place in the present instance. Under There was nothing in the present mrcumstetices of the Act of Parliament e thain to proceed to legislate at once on his accustotned to impure to hi s profes s i on , an unfavourable all the circumstances. therefore, he felt it to be his duty to country to justify the Government in giving actual encou• o we theories, and pro d uce t h em to the H ouse as a pe r f ec t infl uence o n th e moral feelings, would imagine not at all oppose the 'riffling , of his Hon. and Learned Friend. ragement to emigration by advances of money. It would system. He had already received several valuabi, ft sports calculated to make an impression favourable to Mr. Vin- Mr. HUME seid that they were not there to judge of be a dangerous princip l e to follow, except u nder v e ry pe. from those Commissitmers, and be hoped to put the m i n cent, against whom he ha ,1 twice had to conduct orosecu- Mr- Vincenth; effen ce. but h ow f a r th e sent ence o f t h e collar circumstances. There were cases, however, in communication with the authorities in th e N or th _American dons. The first was at t t h t e. la o s f t summerh. assize: of Monmouth, Court had been carried into effect.—( Hear, hear.) which the Government and the House could greatly alit. a tio nies , so as to ena bl e t hem to obtain sheh a t . n i r , ormation, when he was convicted d at c which eery:align attended e a h s a t d •ri b es ot The treatment suffered by Mr. Vincent altogether aggra viate the cecumstances of the poor working classes. He that he dad not despair of being uY ent t % a n it y.. ucla*cth"oetsthae- t ; s h e a d r t e i:t e to e meetings , ,ing iy dartgerous, and when a he was acquittedeea sated the punishment awarded him by the Court, and of alluded particularly to an improvement in their habitations blish such a regulated system of ernig . r , a id i i be of great ad-t used another charge, that of conspiracy (an offence which histreated theonany crime . on. Friend the fleeter Secretary of State. He held the physical wants of those classes, and their educetion, vantage, not only to the country, knew if it would nothing. , according to the form in which it was present d. In his hand a petition from the Editor of the Western Pi n . in piece of spending so much of their time in party pull. themselves.—( H ear , hear.) flu hardly d.,i I; at ~ ,resent, but For the first offence he was sentenced to twelvee) veator, in wnich he stated that from the 6h of August to tical disputes. Make them feel the comforts of a home, be necessary for him to go more into w. Friend lied stated, imprisonment in Monmouth gaol. At the months' 'l . tte the only communications he had received from M . le and they would desert the gin shop, which was tow their ee must agein advert to what his Hon. had left this when the sentence was pronouncal some time Vincent were three , questi )n Mr. F. MAULE—. only refuge from misery. He felt deeply on this subject, regarding the number of en-iigrants who In the course arose as to the tray in which this . I said they were stopped by e the Vi. young _man (of peace- sAing Justices. and he thought his Hun. Friend deserved the thanks of country during the course of the list year. for the Nerd! able demeanour, and before the country for bringing it forward ; he agreed in his tier, of the year 1839 there had left this country ii Cape of Gerd c. pt by his 'tub 0 t nunsp.ohttedh cnaracter, ex. Mr, H U.VI E —Then why accuse Alr. Vi first propositions. but as he bad sueceeded in attracting the American Colonies 12 658 persons ;fur t e hed ; sa i d for sheuld be t.eat d aPPY h e h nhe li c .° with three in'"ings) chief in a public paper when thealluded to were in_ attention of the Government to th • que.t een , he bored h e H e p e , 227 ; for t h e Aeetrateitt Colonies- 15 . . • e : e 7 -% et 9r n was to be sutheerei to th e tercohted and of be 270 'me ordinary prison discipline ; and in coi ,never reached the public 2 (Hear, hear.) would Din press then, further upon the House. th e United Sates , 33 336 : making a total , is( quence of some He did not think it was fair in his '— II those commu ' • Hon. Frieud to make an Mr PR YM E said all the gentlemen who had taken .. , rants. Some of these per.on., more espetee furnish'y.d a the ni; talons that took place he was ex, rapt from many appeal to the House di l et %tenons ordinarily inn led, d in the prisen &stip- of a under •rstieli eircuinstiances and in favour part in the debate teemed to have lost sight ot o_e •-o•igr-iting to the Aiitr also Colowes had beenri d tr.im the line punishment beyond loss which the country suffered in the case of the emi with the means o f em igrating by funds de • ~ . . . 1 le . was not compelled :o wear the prison punishment injustice th the award of the 1. W. It was such by far the t.tea er e limed mituleenc. s netpermitted at produced that public sympath il for they were not the Olt: or the aged. but the -ale of land, or from bounties ; but in to other . offeriders, and tenth y—..eo away grants, had been furbished 1 * and pereevering labourers, whose absenc • was number of cases the means of elide retionre axsittons as far as consi- ant with t • • • . the injustice and the symp•thy would cease. He cert. young ictors ef lends or S em 4 d - ' e I the prieon rules. sidered that the cas made d e a e out by his . ...ern ( Hun end 1 . • loss. Emigration might be a good temporary redid by the parties thems:.lves, or persons, viva t tscussion arme as to the hm.ke he Was to be al- Friend had 1 great r 'of tit .I • fur a temporary evil, but was it not as if they were making rebels interested in promoting the e migration use par_ creed. 11 , . (Mr. Srrgeant Tslfourd) hid himself h. eel . not been eusecred, and that th •• Hutne ou g ht!. . t erri and say the State that Mr, V e r . ,rgri. e to his motion. and sending out ready- made machinery to a foreign natti er ties. Bet If they were :0 come .orts ~.,. je,sons de ~. .u _ t _isi .en seas to i.e restricted to the perusal of Mr. HAWES was anxious to say t a euld fureish the metros to make a continueue system tit it! )(, „ t „ in let-Joon to it i i I ~ ii i o k s . Fe e li ng that such was not the disciplin e ' this •.w ver a c irds upon arid not oult b ' h tee fie a subject, as fur sonie years he teal taken d • ' Lord JOHN RUSSELL, who was v-ry indistinctly *Mous of ernierating, he thought they w , , . . young man o f active and ingwrit_hg• mind, he made a et p interest it seif, but they would an ephli cat lin the k.; re I • • 11U tine prisons Und r the rest•t tl• heard in the Gallery, said, bef . ere the debtre closed h e &hie that which waa inexpeiliellt 111 1 ., 11/11 t L, rd J then H ene 'er• • i oaten, which was t the r . 1 o .". J. Ru-sell, Sc etare, ' tee Jus s bed poser to alter and SUR P . ' ."" wished to melte some ohservtotens on, the motion of his be doing Si i i .r .t ury to the eholesurnc h • chi t t ese p.1.8,,,,s to,,h ' fin, L rn .o tof which Waa, th aan asoiraece was glean; that 1 wend their regalr dons so da a s to tore, ny sp c:al ease. Friend. The proposition o f th i t H in. Gent Was of th e enw takilig place. At pre,ent ray . of. t ),..' p' per tlO h.: would be restricted to Mr. Vincent. nsidered that views and iti•ers s''. lt nest r was intend, 01 'het th r.• R 1 • ' a 1 ir tiVe—it stated that it was most de-stable his oh n ite.,,,s I ticcorchtig to his (teeA he 1-st Assizes, Mr. Vti.eitnt was convicted 0., another u atter.. of a gsol v. hick most getter e to ruts rite and or iii.licti e t similar •• ere applicatil e to the flons an I misdenteetient e were also who were unable to &vain employ [tient in that both atilt, pkce to which no int. eded , , „ for a off nice, as cheat Of which h e Larl tb . I that persons o t•• ap o mettle to the ens,' of politic a l effeeder s H. c that there was a the means by which he should be enettii.d t ,get there; previtiest yb. en few d Jet Ity Oa that occasior, 1 A ere should be allowed to emigrate; i tie ue. sink rent they and f,hear each had also" duly a.e te uteri resources, and whe. tended h I ' • . I ' g ' • forbearance' ' weic special esSt'S, and that the J' ' "n. gat demand for labour in the colonies; so far as . f boil and r f mindpower to alter the re pi t li ti i • •went, he believed there w .uld be no difh- that he pese.ssed that strength both o y . Ana even with a great d ';{etc of grace, which interested all wen- • 1 ., a 4. •ns to ,suit 'firm. The'T t wo prepositions the s et tlement manly precedents fer suet) a nu.urse—o I -f , The H•inour. which weted enable him to undertake of who heard him, most powerfully in his favour. and induced tie •c pc iced) 1 . ing the assent of the He Ise. rutty to gem sec Wit , i sueeested I distant lands,l tr.. the hardships that he them to hope that he could not be subjected to indi ,• . . • et the Rev. Ri•bert T.llor wa- c 0,.. able Gentleman, under these circumstances, sup,:, - i and to tee— This was a tles, go— voted ol a libel at the Surrey Sessions ; l i a free ptssage for I must neeteserrity und e rgo —( Heer, bear) les, and to believe that he might on reflection bectim, . ~ ar e , fir, reel into that the Gevernment shieild provide t yet cohfittement the Maglstretes of le Now that wheleaome system .. I,rati,ti, a nd one calculat, dto a useful mem • ber of society ;he was recoMw:ruied to ! that he ' tet county did not theik persons of that description to the celonies. 1 'if em i• it d ii•ia le ouhht to associete with Mom anti peewees co" - Hen. i l ti• cure to the fut •• i mist compt•••ence. it 1 ,'rice mercy t, _ y the vp dal jury of M eim „ uh _ , . , . • third prepo-ition contairred the substatiee of the. me t o i ti 4 I Viet* dofc i i 1 7' h' 1 I and w. i h d the Slate wfadd uhdritk eircuittrance qtr., tigl •• in his - favour, ries . he rule, and reeulatiers e she proem Gentleman's metion, and tie thoeght it Was on' test w l ic i 1., i la (Jr. But if th. y Pa' part eel arls. t nieretine, they would 'as thisafire - t- ) Ail outbreaks' by e I were th•petted from in hi, yes , by he' i V ' oiti - des the House would not gite it, ris-eot It was a prpsiron n! .., . r .' ' . all psr-ons (leeriest; th el it._ . ~ . was the I••nieto e . whi ch , the ! tiees, and their condom Was , 61 • lii I .1 h ' ' '' ;l4 t• .. tht. ' he' rasing tu h•• r • 1 l' II tersons of diet class a *pint enmity had been disturbed, and with e Inch he, efi. ti, otne d iy t t titi h e of avery wide an general nature. I did no. state - of r e • , tont sit a I ~, „ flu id induce the m ; veuld ha had *lulu, he' havin r been, in e, uurse, !a' Qearter Sessione. Under the resent leas, then, he .urele • re . prase and spevulati n. h . !'" " ye nothing . . L Mean or ex : e -t to whieb prudence would 'mot the 1 e , . en lfineinent couteeded that ell Ca t` for eyrn P . h • with .I,eit: p•rsoris u tte r nf a tamn . lon those hat) ts of ceottort if, , i 'lit which :at th • a iir ,re, s, e time. lio r) tc,)med In teat. gaol for Seim , • , iat y to tie s provided by the state, area the merely sire • e dine, . might be dime b y with He contendedohat the alterae t ee they set Ont. The till the r iv fit to remove tent free passage, without the re cing ,,i t i on o f . o rne fixed prin- were n"w• to ennstantly ex e rcised le t- be . Government inou , , . Or 01 41 : le t di lad H . 1.-C !Ai tride :sty nas e that arse In t,,: gaol os . eipe s would be, in his opinion, in the highest degree leju- ' , rants would . a• e" le !meiotic that every ' . the . . pi. . vent wits to pro. , removal he Mr Sergeant 1 alfourd) eemplained (. . . . . , . . , hot i it . let dm furtheren c saf h ' .. umetute. He could only blame the dicious. Tun 1 190. Gentleman had, in, the ;verse of hi o . vide..l for by the Staie, and if they fuuud that l I 4 an/ Was a wise and ?ucltetotp el tg remove ititil fr om a 1 praceip . f , r .„ _ i '''r 41 lilt Itilaut" latices. Had they acted lik e th e . 4 EVENING 14`DITIONt ~1 i . sue h.ul the power to qipiy the leo any special cas e , an d if they refused to , the consider any case, th ere was no reme dy un til Bill lately passed by them became lawesier,He s f, He thought the Visiting J us ti ces h a d , i n t h e present t s'a ce, very unwisely increased the public sympathy o behalf e.f !he, • prisoners by aggravating the puntsnniea t to who h ihti j Lo G eOMERSET wi-bed to set the Hen. M. In tor Lambert, right al , h respect to the treatment rl Vincent while cot.fiiii d in the gaol of Monmouth, bee' e s oee thet individual bad expresse d hi s w i s h t h, t. if his conn e., o r ment was to continu:i, h e might be sent hack to the g" iu h t Monmouth Wi l y the great charge which was hel d against the Monmouth Ma g i strates was , t h a t they bad acted too l e ni, rely, but as they h a d a ll th rovg h e ndeavo°r~rely, to treat Mr. V:nceet according to his s ation ir, life, and Ad in the srrangeo teh t s t h ey made for that purpose thet io u r ; had the coesent of the Sec re t ar y of Sete for the Department, the eloquence o f t h e H on M em b er wasaitee __A, hither t h rown awsy Seeing. what th e tenor of !be ar e cars in the Western Vindicator was, and knowing ,T, t , there acre other nide:men a pending against tbet W I ; il, he certaiely sh. old no t g i ve hi s consent to t he stet ut the Hon. tied Learned Member. the Mr T. DUNCOMBE said the question befor e House was the edieinistrati o n o f the law as regarded Vincent, and what was complained of was, that theists, is s ease, had not he en feisty admi n i stere d , and t h at t h e sentee. o, had been much more sever e t h at t h e J udges origillslV lo, i e tended. If the Secretary of State had no power to _ ve d terfere, by what ri g ht had Mr. _Vincent been rev'..., from Monmouth g ao l t o t h e P en i tentiary at Millb a nh s iA, ( Hear, hear.) An application had been made hi ik Vincent's counsel (Mr. Roebuck) t o B aron Mders ° o who stated that there was nothing in Mr. Vinces l '' to call for severity, and that if he was so treated be bse been used. He ( Mr. Duacombe) had seer, Mr. cent a few days ago—he believed his health was go o d's e 'he then wore the prison dress. But Mr. Vincent S o printer, and they compelled him to work in the prison gmet tailor.—( A laugh.) It was no part of IsSeeon Alders h t sentence that he should work as a tailor. Whet /thr had they to compel that man to work as a tailor? To might as well have made him a chimney-svreePer• aor Hon. Under-Secretary of State had taken adse° l 7g e se Mr. Vincent hiving signed a letter to his mother, her happy son," b u t t h e f act w as he merely wished to tanked! ars on his beh a lf. Th e l aw had been most iloP r° P - e se .violated i n t h e case of Mr. Vincent, and the vi e ': pot was because he w as a Chartist.—( He ar .) Why wa s sty Mr. Stephens subjected to the same treatment? be e f l os e he was a Tory ; b ut V incent - ;as a Chartist. H i. h ot F. tend sa d the storm h a d b lo W n over, but he did not. t, jil i; was or would b e so l ong as th • se men were treat; to tta this manner, and so l ong as the Heuse refused to lis t the wishes ef the people.—( Hear, hear.) S , r E WILMOT sa il i t wou l d be most irsproeiertsitie give a discretionary potter to Ma g i strates to m i t igate , s t . , 0 1" - crease the severity of a sentence. It would be much .t .0 provide some general regulations for the eliscipt ,°- orisons for the whole kingdom. , 0 0 ° Mr. JER VI S said they should confine theesSo v i leed to th particular case of Mr. Vincent. He apPr e m, - t eso they had little to do now with his politics, and that i t eo in consequence of them, but of the different r ar e ! lions of their resoectivs prisons Mr _ Vincent was sP " i r t a severer impsi-onment than Mr. Stephens. The 40 0 was this, that the Learned Judge senteuced Mr V°, v . to a certain imprisonment in a prison under certaio r,11.6 lations for a certain off nee. He was so impris° ild 'oos circumstances rendered his removal to another place •yee venient, and it did a p pear to him the explanatton .g red exaggerated the c ha rge . H e cared not how agg": al ity was the offence. Th e J u d ge bad seeteneed him to prisonment where he received certain indulgences. 60 04 4 matter of p o l. e y an d economy the Government rellle him where he could not enjoy them. On this nrw ra "' o r they might h ang a man elle bad been sentenced W e l ts " of' portation, because it was a more economical puni :s " - w e ere —( Hear, hear. ) It ca me to t h at, and the House a t o called on to decide vihsther any p erson cou ld tee ' tb ,e jacted by oth e r aut h or i ty to a severer sentence t h a n to which he had been sentenced by the Judges.--( lles e i Mr. WAKLE Y t h oug h t the punishment o f pa n t or persons at the present time, and the manner of that pe ° is ment ought to excite serious alarm. He would aide, keeping up the discussioa on this subject night aft'' r ! o i until the evil were remedied Would any Noble rt i o A have been made a tailor of if he had committed a. po offence? He thought not. There was now sitslnif ° A ee Treasury Ben c h a C a bi net Mi n i ster who had tried moreg ~ to e citing language than Mr. Vincent; the fitro. G en r: t beita was sent to prison, but did he stitch etnalte . ,"'6, e o did he mak e wa i stcoats ? No; and if he 'bap oil forced t o d o so , b e would never have reste d -° he had his revenge. Were polifo,l, o ffenders' treated Rs felons? This was absolutely torture l o dge upon Vincent for pronouncing his otti' oons. The 0 0 tho tsi dy, sentenced him to imprisonmeet—that was formerly sufficient ; but now, in addition to vanfieement of his I ,gee he was to have his mind tortusee, It was really &oat rous. If these things were alone while they set ti do, side of the House, he did not know what would b e ' cod when they were on the other, He thought the Sece lia i t is of State had reason to payse before he ventured tr . gate the sentences of persons sentenced to ___, ll2 io J sonment, seeing bow he had been calumeist eu me r, vilified for his leniency in a sister country-- ( " - g hear)—hut this House swain to fortify him and eucoul l g r , him in allowing letiiency to these priso ners . He " d s c o stood that the N o bl e M arquis had sent orders . to rnitiko r the suff•rings of Mr. O'Connor - why could h e not dv.se with regard t o M r Vi neetit ? fie hoped he would Lies': back to Mo nmout h . The Noble Lrrd the Seegetarl the Cslo u i es . at t h e time he was at the Home.saffie'. w ail always willing to show leniency. He could Wet belie that the G overnment wished to torture those Pris°-e erld and he hoped the vote of the House that sight seou r encourage the N o bl e Marquis in a lenient eourFc. Aft% the example which had been set him by tbouent it the language language whicii had been use d of late years, h e bar to visit an enthusiastic youth like Vincent :LP with such exc ess o f pueishment. He hoped he would be removed to Monmouth as be desired.—( Cheers. ) Mr. A G LIONBY witheut wishing to p a lliate bits ott e rir4 felt that th e pun i shment Mr. Vincent was nu* eedu was more calc u l ate d to raise popu'Ar sympathy t h a n ood, writings that b e cou ld publish; he really thoug ht sgd et case had heeti made Out f or a di et i siut i„ o f t h e pealo bt punishment to ehieh he had been 'sentenced. H e thel the argument of the Hon. strong argument for re,, ovirte , ,ee m fr om th e peniren lll o. a here he was undergoing t h e. punishment of a felon. tee doubted if sufficient grout , os had been shown for h is t o &so fetary himself furniali! nova! foots Monmouth Val, but even if it had bee p shown, he ou g h t to h o the te been r e m ove d to some goof , 0 , regulations of which., svcre similar to those of Monmo°o He propos e d t h ee the duration of the punishmeut 0 to lessen, d it t tit sev ir•ty grf • Lord JOHN RU ei SELL sold ' ih t at 4 Learned h o had tri•:d M. Vinvetit had not ma t t:l . :an y cum ii ens to Ose not who had the charge (if th e g rho 'out tbet Learn. d Judge hof conveyed an - to;inion t° CieSnsel for the prison. r, that he did slot think there to be .may thirstiness or sere. ity exercised. toward4i. ter Viiieent He rad made a similar statement in a • address , d to the H rue Secretary. After that a cy* t el poadenee foll owe d b etween some of the Magistrates eto himself '(Lord John Russell) eith respect t ° ' treatment to whi c h t h e prisoner should be suN e-,te * e se' The M igistratea stated that they had grantid . sou i " ol ee dulgeticea, and he ( Lord John Russ.. II ) • suggr , f ed ; any oth rs. and it did hot seem that alter that as' re was Mr' complaint made with respect to the teat trnent, o' p it Vincent in Mosimeuth gaol. The prisoner was afiersse. o removed from the gaol in question, but tihat did not from anything he had done there, but s' I from i " tb it his presence in Monmouth gave a.. pret ence rr for e- s , citement and agitation in that counts' The removal W 0( not, therefore, caused by any Tar on the i' ll telf Mr. Vincent , Tne Secretary of S tate b a d wedG am se sThO the power of removing Mr. Vincent to it ,'" other prison, but it was felt that ; i t . would not be f Th . " - t lay any adittional expense in the' wa y on another jiff ' • Mr. Velem was therefore rev ovA to the Petti t ", ore th e rules of which uedsubtedly made confineull,",gilts4 see .re than wh im intended by t/Je Judgee, the M"g i ",: e ttl° ne the Secretary of States,-....( Neer, hear.) The 'iota Lord, the Secretary for the Home Department' oaf ,aver, notic e . however, • of his determinatiors t e t - tl O the law with respect sa the treatment of pa rties he" Penirehtiary, so :hat he would be ent.bled t 09 04 sen the great 'oarshoess to which Mr. Vi nee ,ll °*' now subjected, With regard to the lares eosa l of (4 %50' ing the Crown for the purpose of rereie s g the ino, anent of any party, be should certainly such a"' l t - ol° Ilia decided negative. But at the s - sine tim e' he 19 ; 7 11 0 / allow that if the advisers of the Ceown shall feel e fte '• os feround for remitting tv‘imasenthe punishment which Mr. Vi tteen t h a d node a bet pato 1 ALF OURaD should be ready to do 80. ro:itd the his t ir she he t e c ti o e u e o r t . . erg ettl' Ser • • ryas derstand from the statement of the Nobil e Lord tbs l e tch, a _ n T u expectation that the additional( suffl.rintfe,",; l ot V cent had undergone would lead to a remits!, l e his punishment, he shoulu feel that thy object of bi t' eat s ' ibrew. apttEaiEneLd. expressed his tions ou regret 's that übj .tpble ' condi Lord had made an part, be should ever y resist any atter apt. e in the pe t • e os P f House of Commons to interfere mont h p 01'4 41 , 4 0 the Crown, He thought that it 'w i ly id e b . u e r la : da s t: s g e — s ly ec the oir: hl: to precedent which would enab' s e to attribute harshness to the crown l)op e° d re' rn claim the mer i t of claenev to itself, it cle at right that there should He, r et the Crown grant it. tie. was sorry, boweryr' t " e s e t t silo and Noble Lord for the purposseeof remission of ettluts k e td , t e ho getting rid of the V .l " - had held out any promi , 'es v:ith regard t Lord JOHN RUS,S Psis wished to Plain the °ale ment he land made.. 1 7 . e did not ertsh ex that the HilLsite should interfere in quest ens of' mercy but while he be° a state the whole tase, art d warn he found that for r ea r; ,f public convenience. plr. Vincent had been severer punishment than had been intended 1 4 - be Judge, to. the 'Mairistrates, or the ecretary State' o r thoug'at he was jusstrtsd in observing that the advisers the Crown might take those circumstances into consitk r ; He "" h " dl i h i . ' thought to have discussed th su bjec_ i feu th . o quettion, isidioua making that admission. Mr S recant TA L 1 , 0 17 RD then ivithdrew his rnotie l Y Mr. Sergeaat 11'.ALFOEIRD then brought forward the 9 6 . 7; tiers of Mr F. 0' / Connor, the d etai l s of chick he said he """- not g into,they already 1. ; been su ffi ciently e uteished, bu t e wished to impress up im the !Uwe that M r . d'C onn orba b eg s( ' subjected to indigse ter which the Judge who tried him. 11 ° -- , untie ipated, indignities which appeared not far from 5 , / Our' , , t i r o an h y ad on . e . whit tr,cl ever occupied the station of a ire' atioujt% ofh mingled, as a Alember of that House, in flue, siesw'" ; „,' guoing u nities a , gee lrmen, would peefer the most bodily torture ti sueb la" - ( Hear, heat. fir O'Connor had been tl l O ,l ) lee begged to move an address so the era t he tar .sti t h. removal of Mr. O'Connor 'torn Yor!.. C ast le to . t - t ‘° 2 Bench, or :some relies r' •del v °- p bon, where r ules - require such degradin g • tiIiOTHER TON v e t t e ' en teed a peti„tio n f rom Man. LO P ter in Mr. O'Connor' s favour. Mr. FOX MA ULE said, without enter i ng ga t all int t h (*use of M r . O' Connor's sentence, 3re. woul d fran kly st't a thB no such indignities had been isootemeisated by his Noble it rsvt" Mt.) I r sr I • !, ;,, i w 1 ~.