The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-26 00:00:00

ase remember, were founded on the rei, at house, before whom the mos t gross a d as proved to have been practised in the l !nett) was now fully prepared to prove, , picion, that on a recent election three t) en bribed with money. This new briber, the petitioners now comßlained of, and el en stale to revive the former grounds !nt corruptiou created a new necessity he house to enforce an enquiry into the xisting in this town. He should therefor mittee to inquire into those new acts of ition, preparatory to his bringing in a said that he did not feel disposed at pre! ;th into the merits of the petition iVby just presented to the house, arise when wing forward the measure of which (Lord Sandon) could not help agreeilc that it was now rather too late to mot} sry at the election of Li ver p oo l , seeing ,1 a so frequently brought b e f ore th e h ous e' ttle purpose. Since the period when ight forward this subject, three electio, Liverpool, of which two were wholly'] third was complained ofonly by a dissap?. Collected money for the alleged purposo; ection, but had shrunk from prosecuting e proper tribunal, where the matter woul 4 l id investigation, under the sanction of abl t be the case in the mode of proceedini ioners now called, befo re a select cola') could not be sworn; and this party, so ok advantage of a mere rumour, that b' ,ed; for if they had been in a situation toy kind, they would not have shrunk froni lour he had no doubt was propagated by? ild pledge himself that he had a perfeo e was no act of bribery practised by any i election alluded to, unless, perhaps, sos might have given a g l ass o f ale to an d sl party to which he alluded were also Reform Bill did not work so well to their; xpected. He should now say nothing Al' Lore at length into the subject when hll ,ng forward his motion. aid that he had not th e s li g ht es t d ou bt b iad just spoken beli eve d th e assert i ons h, but he (Mr. Wason) h a d no doubt also undation whatever for th ose asser ti ons .' ey may not have be e n so l av i s hl y spent at I rs was, that there was no money to spend , , i is fact, that the last election for Mayor Li Yards of £BOOO, and this was a most base it, the lower classes. Is the allegation of lb e. 1 bribery took place, to be taken in pren of the 3,000 petitioners who had sign.e !qr. `Mason) should feel that he had uot 1 if he had not noticed the assertions of tb l ; rather too much f or th e no bl e l or d t o A , earance of the petitioners a s regar d e d 1 election, particularly as the fourteen da', on petitions had now elapsed. He woul o ,l vas it not a notorious f ac t, th a t a t one 0' "the noble lord the voters were brought ntoxication that the clerk refused to takel of the carriage of the noble lord seen il - )ool, while the noble l or d hi mse lf was in l i. , f drunken freemen on th e di c k ey ? (L au ri, ble lord account for the extraordinary s he second day of pollin g , wh en on th e firs j s 600 a-head on the poll ? Did no t this :n holding back till the second day, when! re their regular price ? The petitioners ', luiry into these most flagrant abuses, and' ,t to be withheld. , FON said that he perfectly agreed with the! I just spoken that this was a case that oug The noble lord said that no abuse had influence been used by any of his suppol he noble lord know what might pass bet!, the occasion of an election ? H e (Mr. " tainly opposed to unseating a member 0 y, unless it were distinctly proved; but he tituting inquiries on all such occasions. n explanation, said that he should confine:, giving notice that on Thur s d a y nex t h e syr committee on the petition. CORPORATION REFORM. DOD rose to present a petition from the . 1 ! ompany of the city of L o nd on comp l a ined ad been presented to that house, on Mad ion named - Robert Hugh Franks, and ,e referred to the committee on corporav i omplained that the charact er o f th e i r hod'', heed and calumniated in that petition, g ght not be referred as orde re d t o th e corarY r whom the petition alluded to had been d that it was a very fit petition to be ref !e on corporations; for the company trading company, and a constituent port► )f the city of London, for it was well lin ess he belonged to one of the trading co zither for a common-council-man, or for 3 ,peintment or office in the city of London a bill passed for a member of parliamev HBULL wished to ask the noble lord will question wavmpowered to investigate the, large trading companies, and w h e th e r it submit such a petition as that under delivl Leration of the committee ? LOR of the EYCHEQUER said it never vial Jointing the committee, to have referred, iected with a private or trading corporavl [le committee had to do with municipal hose only. As to the petition in que s tion to have been referred to that comral not power to deal with it. ought the most regular course for them tol l escind the order for referring the petitial I, according to the statement of the noble ad not power to deal with it. (Hear, ing's Bench was open, if any misconduct )7, the rulers of the company, and it was to assume the exercise of any powers V 'cognized to possess. said that, if the committee had not poll tition, a reference to it would not give it v l fore, the house felt that the committee had r , Ise would rescind the order, with a v i ew to P I table, to be dealt with as the house might see 1, that as to the question whether this Al Aim or a trading corporation, he b e lieve e asked what trade it carried on, the an!, But it certainly had the power of influea) city of London, and this company might a :y, or a thousand, in one day. This, he thong the description of a municipal corporation. therefore, in saying that the committee h it. Loa of the EXCHEQUER said, that he had inion whether the company was a municie tion, and was not prepared to give any opts L thought the best course would be for thel Trn to advise his Majesty's ministers whevt', us was a municipal or a trading corporali hat the house should ascertain that. If its , ' , tion, or even a trading corporation with C 1 t, the committee clearly could have nothim is it appeared that it influenced the electio ° city of London, and of the sheriffs and the were municipal functions—and so far the cc eipal corporation, and, if so, it came withia r. id, that the committee was not empowered , not to be empowered, to inquire into the lies, or the manner in which such property at would be establishing a tyranny whica, esist, as the most dangerous of all descriE e were examined as a member of such boat just duty to resist any question put to hint " the disposal of property that belonged to Ln. He was not without apprehension . escription, if once admitted, might grow' d ere was this difficulty in the present case-1 Lot relate to the municipal or trading char d te Merchant Tailors' Company, but referre; -application of their funds. Now he held the committee had nothing to do. He theel ould he to rescind the order. ON said it was clear that this company cal exercised the same functions as corporat ns and boroughs. If this committee had h it, surely it was fitting that sufficient pal tither to it or to some other committee. Sir R. VYVYAN said, that as yet he had no t di scovere d f rom ho n o bl e l ord whether they were to confine their inquiry to de iatiMlS from charters, or to attack the charters themselves. le still maintained the opinion, that a committee of the House f Common s was an unfit tribunal for conducting a general in uiry on the subject. He agreed with his honourable friend, be member for Kent, that its appointment as one of the first iea sures of a reformed parliament, afforded a strong indica ion of what might be expected hereafter. It would not sur lrise him to find patents of nobility tr ea t e d w ith no grea t er re pect than charters of corporations. Mr. 4 BERcitoSiB Y said, that with respect to the petition, it would certainly be absurd to suppose that the committee could L oe d all the a ccounts o f a l l the corporations in England, „ t la ritinil, and Ireland; but the difficulty that he felt was, lest exa mination of th e cor p orat i on of London might be im i'ued, if it w ere k nown that the committee had no power to ex into this or other corporations. ,!-..rne petition w as l a id on t h e ta b le. d' • ATTWooD gave notice that he should to-morrow move to re scind the order. Mr. 1.1:11 filE KING OF BELGIU M ' S DEBTS . .'arl (f; (Monmouth) read a l e tt er f rom P r i nce L eopo ld t o ac ome t , giving to the Exchequer the whole amount of his parities row England, after certain provisions for servants, etUrn, and the repairs of Claremont. He then moved for a mit 01te monies paid into the Exchequer out of the an y Y granteo his royal hi hness as the husband of Charlotte, inces s of Wales,' g 'pi* c er,,n had of the EXCHEQUER said the whole surplus ,hi - ei l le nad been applied to the payment of the prince's debts, ', as was usual in such calculations, were much greater at ii had been supposed. (Hear.) He had himself shared the Liinrosity felt by the hon. mover; and, on inquiry, the answer (7: e i lived was, that the debts were not yet paid. So great ,- he charges, that at first the trustees appointed by the qii i t g ql3elgium refused to act, for fear of drawing responsi ies,Y,:,,ll themselv es . (H ear , h ear .) Th a t, an d o ther .difficul lefit 0i a now over, and the country would soon reap the be- Mr his Majesty's yenerosit. Engl an ',T-Rlimurox was astonished, and so would the people of lee be, in England to hear that with such an income the prince was so tate of debt. He wished to know whether, even in the present iN t . t ,„„the King of the Belgians, he did not continue to de ind coin of his income from this country. ( "Hear, hear," Wit t , " 611,1 1 g.) He would maintain that the grant of the an lelf'. w as itself dissolved immedietely the prince accepted the at4 la n throne, and became an alien to England, with opposite ... eats and connections. Air. it '4ALL withdrew his motion. On t he motion of Mr. SLANEY a select committee was "to consid er the best' means of securing open e k es ' l l the imm e di a t e v i c i n i ty o f populous towns, for public bitant s 5, calculated to promot e the health and comfoct of the hirPUBLIC ACCOUNTS. b , pursuant to notice, moved for estimates of the °, able receipts and expenditure of the year, urging that the ~ent system of accounts was very defective, and that there gut to te estimates for the charges of collecting the revenue, loft to £4,000,000, the same as there were estimates for alenY, navy, & c . At p resen t the items of c h arge f or suc h I,ction could be in no way checked by the house. e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had a bill to prove the E xc h equer d epar t men t, so as to secure accounts of iesimts r and expenditure; and those items w ou ld ena bl e th e aree to judge o f th e fitne ss of su b sequent est i mates an d The 'notion was eventually withdrawn. LIGHT HOUSES. 11-_ HUME said that he had now to submit to the house a pre keia of a very different na t ure, t o w hi c h h e truste d t h at no 'lion would be offered. The subject was one of consider- e ine-, ti ts le iJ.rtallee to the shipping - interest, as it related to the qlth vied noon it to defray the charges of public and private e ° uses- In the year 1821, when he first brought this mat- ‘ s o id t e w r ar . d , ', he hoped that his exertions would be followed by a ei_,..,n,3.tarba.deereduction in those duties. He had, however, given [ r.tject up, because he understood that the committee upon • ttllil had taken it under . their care, and had maue a ie e report full of details upon it. In that report, which was Seate(' in 1823, they pointed out in a very - able and distinct finer the injury which these duties inflicted on the shipping seesstofpuThhicicyl(igidhtnsot question Ihe right of the Crowh to grant l a t t s tts theto private inuividua_ls;• but they proposed present leases fell in they should not he renewed, blic houlil i be granted to the Trinity Board for die benefit of the 1 havin ~e was sorry to say that instead of that rheornme.nda vii ,. I, tie a e ,t n o ad ri ( .o tp r t d e n d e , ss t , h e Duugeness leases, for the lights arWlell and at V4ter . ton; had been re ed,v to . ~ r. Coke, and other private - inuividuals,—a proceed t7fe which a tax of £30,000 had been inflicted Upon our tiler -4 b ' la n% He would read the amount of the - expense which kos,ee.n. incurred by the shipping interest since the renewal of ene'l7ttbese leases. The leases of Winterton Lighthouse, in iet; e 4 hee with an order of that house had made a return oa ,._e, that in 21 months after the renewal of their lease, they e(iiurt:, n o t v.e t r 2 a 2 N t a ), bove the expense of maintaining the lights, of which £ll,OOO went to Lord Bravbroke d ,isi family, and 1:11,000 to the Commissioners of Woods , (I. l _ rests. Now that tease had been renewed in spite of the Q' ‘.. ilof two ministers to the contrary. He contended that ti :,tg, had no prerogative to tax a portion of his subjects le t j ' e henetit of another portion by means . of these leases. 4 4 , was imposed for the purpose of maintaining the lights, i sre nu ght hot to exceed the expanse of maintaining them, 1 , - e as ni the last 40 years the lights at Winterton and Or iet, ss had produced no less a sum than £22,000 a year to I,,tei, individuals. It. would be his duty, when the returns r e "" ic h he was going s to move, and to which he believed le , was no objection, were laid upon the table of the house, i e r;' t v e l for a select committee to see how far these charges )i,, °e reduced or otherwise altered. At present the light ousee at Dungeness produced £BOOO a-year, and the light- Ii at Harwich £lOOO a year, whilst that- at Winterton, is b 44 ( 1 thready stated, produced a much larger suns. . He It le ''lPX to state, that since the year 1822 the 1 unity leo u ao reduced the charges for the lights under its klej t , full one half; but he was of opinion that a much greater lip p i l°ll was required by the- present depressed state of our fie sit, ug interest. The hon. member then proceeded to state !theoeht. of sums levied upon the merchant service by means qe s t e h u ties• In the Year 1828, when the last returns were %,i;e.liniount of rafes levied for lights was, in England, t, e t 7 ), in Scotland, £3-I,oooe and in Ireland, 1.:36,000 ; mak 'e ti e . ta l of £I39,(XX). If to this sum were added £29,000 for We e te e Private lights which he had just mentioned, it would ion a total of £IGS,OOO thus levied upon the mercantile ship eit'e There were seven ot h er pr i va t e li g ht-h ouses , f rom w hi c h le e ,' hot obtained a return of income, but, reckoning it upon. 1 111:,. ea 1.c, he thought that he might estimate the entire re kieda„"ed by lighthouses at i:18.),000 or £190,000. He con- . '?, • 1 11(1,„`"at the whole of this system wanted revision. (inc ile e . l ,PPose that in selecting individuals for the management 'se e Xuses, care would be taken to select individuals who EtllC'es oequaiWed with their management, or conversant teh, e bland naval affairs. This care the Trinity-house in 'ot• e "„ li e a generally exercised,. but such was not the case in ,kkte ‘ 47 ; and Ireland. - He had got a - list of the managers of ler e e "ghts who were all of them either halides or lawyers. 0 Shwas the ' Provost of Glasgow, the Provost of Inverness, t. tl e " fr Depute of Lanark, and others of a smaller kidney ; ~ • l er , e , r t ligii it as nut one naval man in ail that management, ;li me°, ' t au ra31,000 a-year to epen4 in the maintenance of kr, b s e'4 They had a very able man under them as engi [pm.!.it t o suppose that they - knew anything of. lights was a 4 w V p t ion too preposterous to be entertained for a moment. 411.::Seottand was bad, Ireland seas still worse. There was:: "'oard at Dublin, which had the power of erecting iii:- ue i chl the coast of Ireland, and of spending £3 , 5,061:1- ear I b ae l, maintenance and erection. '1 he members, ‘‘.'ee wale ' ll 4l e t's, not one naval man acted with them, and thus there ineb cut be over the shipping interest that suhefinteneence , sela,t required. He felt that it was the duty of Goveilment. or eo "er these duties as light as possible, because they adected .. ta le i ti unerce very rigorously. Ile was aware that the I i 'hit y k), w were fenced round with charters, but he understood that Le c o : s r !' not unwilling to meet Government upon fair terms. uotle,Ouded that the Trinity Board was comphsed of Inca %,'„ 3ustice to the charge reposed in them, but he «nee Itle e' e t he same of the Scotch baillies and lawyers, who Leese , rob e f,7, ° .ut lighthouses, nor of the Irish bankers, who, in ad s e , e I tY, knew less. 'lshe lights ought to be taken rim . ite,„9 ll -liies. (A laugh.) he was quite sincere, he woula t k 'sh those northern lights entirely, (a laugh,) and wow. la ° „ w the Ballast Board to exist any longer.. lecture any vo' Hi ,e was done upon this subject, he was (I; sit ous (.:f tre et.l 6 , Vnit had been done since the report of i 823. lie . S",'IS te.' - ' l ' '.ware of the improvements effected by the linietv s.rnt whet he wanted to ascertain was, the amount et . i.ia: Trinity -I`' by these private lights_ hi what he must vali an ei e ,:-:zerci se of the prerogative. There was another point es t i ~ 1 / 1 ' which lie looked upon this matter . as important. Be e, t . i`• siltas thus paid by the owners of our mercantile ma c' to e country was obliged to pay every year a sun]. I , i hard et t , the tehe proprietors of these lights.. .Sinc , e the es.ablish tei the reciprocity system, the British Government was 4 ,1 ,Y treaty to efiay all the extra charges . which foreign i' B uo-'1 to pay in d our ports, beyond those which ou vessels THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. paid in foreign parts. Now, in addition to the enormous profits which the proprietors of these lights extracted from the British merchant, Government was obliged to pay to them out of the Exchequer certain sums on account of these foreign ships. He considered this to be a subject of greater importance than many persons thought, as it charged a sum of £200,000 a-year upon the shipping and commerce of the country. That was worth attention at all times; but particularly now, when the shipping interest was so much distressed. He concluded by moving for a series of returns relative to the amount of revenue collected by fees from lighthouses public as well as private, in England, Scotland, and Ireland, from the year 1828 to the year 1831, and to the appropriation of that revenue in each year. Mr. ROBINSON seconded the, motion, hut proposed that there should be an additional resolution stating how tar the leases of lights granted by the Crown to . private individuals were now un- j expired. He likewise complained that all governments had jobbed in the lease. Mr. P. TuomsoN did not object to the production of these returns ; on the contrary, he was glad that the hon. member 1 for Middlesex had moved for them. The subject deserved the attention of the house, and when the returns were on the table, it would be for the house to consider in what way it would deal with the matter to which they referred. He was decidedly of opinion that the rights of the trading community should not be conceded to private individuals, when the concession, as in the 1 case of these leases, pressed heavily on the shipping interest ; and the commerce of the country. (Hear.) He should be most j happy if any arrangement could be made by which the present pressure could be removed (Hear.) He was of opinion that the leases which had been renewed since the delivery of the 1 report of the committee on foreign trade, ought not to have been renewed; but that the lighthouses, so leased to private in- ' dividualS, should have been placed under the care of the Tri nity Board. He denied that the present Government had jobbed at all in these leases. The only leases which had fallen in since the present government was in office, were the leases of the lighthouses on the Two Forelands. 'They had been pre- viously held by Greenwich Hospital. Government had placed ' them at the disposal of the Trinity Board, with a desire that no further charge should be imposed upon vessels passing them than what was necessary to defray the expense of maintaining the lights. By so doing, they had taken a charge off the ship ping interest amounting to £-.14,X) 01.'1.5000 a year. He could assure the hon. member that the attention of the government had been directed to this subject, and a measure was in contem plation for the purpose of investing the government with addi tional powers with respect to the private lighthouses, and for placing them, (as we understood the right hon. gentleman,) under the control of some responsible authority. Sir R. PEEL did not rise to offer any opposition to the mo tion of the hon. member for Middlesex, in the principle of which he concurred, for he thought it extremely desirable that the control of these private lights should be given to some respon sible public body.. He rose to defend the late government from the imputation cast upon it, that it had renewed leases of some of these lights for party purposes. Now, it so happened that the only leases renewed by the late government, of such_ino perty, were in two instances, in neither of which could there have been the slightest shadow of hope that the renewal would be beneficial to the government in a party view. The renewals were of leases to Lord Braybroke and. Mr. Coke, of Norfolk. (Hear, hear.) In both cases the lighthouses had been rebuilt by those individuals,. and had been the property of their ances tors. Whether such renewals were politic or not was not the question, all he contended for was, that there was no pretence for saying that they were given for any corrupt purpose. Mr. PEASE and another hon. Member rose at the same time, but the cries for " Mr. Pease" were general, and the other hon. gentleman gave way. Mr. PEASE said that he could not but congratulate the house that public attention had been called to this important subject. it was one on which he felt an interest as being connected with the county which he represented, but, still more, it was one, which concerned the interests of humanity,—it related to the interests of a class of men in whose welfare the public were much concerned,—those who were employed in the commercial and naval service of the country. It was well known that the lives of this valuable portion of our fellow-subjects were often placed in jeopardy by the state in which lighthouses were kept at the mouths of some of our principal rivers, and it was there fore most desirable that some efficient control should be kept over such lights by some responsible public board. To him it appeared singular, that while the names of some of the highest persons in the kingdom appeared to subscriptions of 1;50 and £lOO for different societies whose object was the pre servation of human life,—such as the Humane Society, the Society for extending the benefits of Captain Manby's appara tus, and others of that description,—there should at the same time exist a tax levied on our commercial navy for a purpose that turned out in the gross more injurious than beneficial to the safety of that large class of men who navigated our shores. He had heard with much regret that the funds which were destined to increase the number of lighthouses could not be wholly ap plied to such purpose, and that the number of lights must be less in consequence of the claims on it for pensions to widows and orphans of seamen. Now; that these were fit objects of public commiseration no person would deny, but they were so much so that he hoped other means of provision for them might be easily found, without, any diminution of the lights necessary for the guidance and security of the vessels approaching our coasts. On grounds of humanity, on grounds of the necessary protection of our commerce, he hoped that such funds might not be diverted from their legitimate purpose. He was glad that the motion had been brought forward, and he hoped that the attention of the house would be directed to the returns which would be made in pursuance of the motion. It was to him a great satisfaction that after the rather desultory discussions in which they had been engaged since the com mencement of the session they had at last come to something practical. (Hear, hear.) By some of those discussions he had been amused, by some instructed, and perhaps by some edified; but on the whole, looking at them as far as their tendency to practical results went, he would say, as a new member, that he had been rather disappointed. (Hear, hear.) It was therefore a satisfaction to him to see the house come at last to some measure from which a practical good might be derived, and on that ground he gave his support to the motion. After a few words from an hon. member whose name we did not learn, Lord EBRINGTON, referring to the statement of the hon. member for Middlesex, that the profits from the light-house be longing to Lord Braybroke, exceeded £22,000 a year, one moiety of which was paid to government, and the other was re tained by the noble lord, duserved, that he did not know where the hon. member had got his intbrmation, but he could state, that the profits received by Lord Braybroke did not amount to more than half the sum named as received'by him. • Mr. HUME said he got his information from the returns made to government, from which it appeared that after deducting the expense, the moiety returned by Lord Braybroke to govern ment was E.11,8;7 17s. Bd. for 21. mouths. ( Hear, hear.) Lord EBRINGTON had understood the hon. member to state that sum as the moiety of the produce of one year. (Hear, hear.) • Mr. H umE observed, that he thought he had said, and he certainly meant, 21 months; but it was certain that the public paid more than £23,000 for that light-house. What he com plained of was this—that after the promises made by Mr. Her ries and Mr. Huskisson that the leases would not be renewed, and alter the report of a committee, recommending that, after the expiration of the• then leases, the lighthouses should be p. aced under the control of some public corporation, and after toe strong memorial of the Trinity-house to the same effect, some of those should have been renewed to the same parties, and the puaac thus saud.ed with au anuual burden, from whichthey aid not derive the.hetietit had a right to expect. hl u r. G. F. yoNG (we betteve) contillained that the comMerL cial navy of the multi y was made to pay a large sum, far be= I y wad that which was necessaiy, for keeping up many of those i i,ts. lie hoped that au, cud might be put to that system. ike Ord not see why the British navy, which derived equal be neti:.s Item those tights, should not be made to bear a part of the charge. In one instance, that he could name, a lighthouse was elected where none had been before, and where none was necessary. Captain DUNDAS was understood to say that he had that day' received a letter from a shipowner bearing testimony to the au vanti.:;se &lived by the commercial navy from these lights, and from the one to which he (Captain littudas) uuderood tife; Mai. member (Mr. Young) to allude,• and he could even cite ie:tlineny of the hon. member's father, who was a good t.o the same point. ;Si;, G. 1'; 1. - oi.NG said that the trawl off the Start-point was iU:;t.liouse to which he alluded. iNoToN bore testimony to the importance of the iitht:uu in question. ' Many of too private lighthouses were of peat benciii. to the vessels appioaehing our coasts, but it. wou;(1 not be advisable to increase • itwir number, owing to the diliteu.tv mten found in distinguishing one froth tne other. 'llie n.otiou was then put and agreed to. PUBLICATION OF DIVISIONS. Mr. D. W. H;R;;;;;d ``that Mr. Speaker be requeFtcd to make the necessary arrangements for the taking of the div sions, and for the insertion of them in the • votes, giving the name of each member in the majority and minority,—menabers• pairing off to leave their names in the vote-office." Lord STORMONT opposed the-motion;—Lord ALv'aoße said be thought the hon. gentleman could not be serious in making this motion;—Mr. WA RBURTO?i • supported the motion ;—» Colonel DAVIES and Mr. HUME could not vote for this motion, although they thought it desirable, if any practicable means could be found of doing so with accuracy, that the names of members voting should be published;—Sir ROBERT PEEL and Captain BERKELEY were decidedly opposed to the scheme. The gallery was then cleared for a division, and the house divided, when the numbers appeared:— For the motion 94 Against it 142 Majority 4B FRIDAY. PETITIONS were presented :—for the better observance of the Sab bath, from the Scotch Church in St. Mary's Abbey (Dublin), from Hampstead, and from Harrogate, by Mr. SHAW ; from Salisbury, by Mr. BRODIE ; for the repeal of the House and Window taxes, from Bath, by General PALMER ; from Worthing, by Mr. Gomm} ; for the abolition of Negro Slavery, from Rumford, by Sir T. B. LENNARD. Mr. O'CoNNELL presented a petition from the chandlers and soap boilers of Dublin, praying for a revision of the. Soap-duties in Eng land. The petitioners stated that, owing to some peculiarity in the imposition of these duties, the English soap-manufactureres were enabled to undersell (the Irish in their own market. He thought the complaints were entitled to the consideration of government, and he hoped the noble lord would he able to take off .the duty altogether. Lord ALTHORP admitted that, by the present scale of duties, the Irish soap-manufacturers were sufferers, and unjustly so. There ap peared' to him but three modes by which they could be relieved :- Ist, to take off the duty altogether; 2nd, to alter the drawback ; and 3rd, to impose but one-half of the present tax on English soap, and to lay a tax of equal amount on the Irish. He hoped shortly to be able to bring forward a measure which should embrace one of these propo sitions, and to effect such an alteration as would be generally bene ficial. After a few words from Mr. Lalor, Mr. Ruthven, Sir F. Burdett, and Mr. Lefroy, the petition was ordered to lie on the table. DISTURBANCES (IRELAND)' SUPPRESSION BILL. A message from the Lords brought up the above bill. Lord ALTIIORP said, the usual course was to move the first reading immediately on a bill being . brought from the other house ; but in compliance with the wish of several members to have it printed before passing through any of its stages, he now moved " that the bill be printed, and that it be read the first time on Wednesday next." Mr. H. GRATTAN said, that without wishing to enter into any debate, he would enter his protest against the bill. Mr. HUME'wished to know when the house might expect the remedial measures whiCh the government had promised. He hoped that the 'Muse would not pass the present bill until the others were passed, or, at least, until they were satisfied that they would pass. Lord ALTHORP said, that he'had stated a day or two ago that he hoped to be able to introduce the bill for church reform by the end of next week, and the bill for amending the grand jury system by the middle of the week. It was for the house to de cide whether they had sufficient confidence in ministers to be lieve that they were in earnest When they said they would carry through the remedial measures. (Hear, hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL said, the members of that house might be disposed to place the fullest confidence in the intentions of minis ters,' and to believe that they had the power of carrying their remedial measures through that house, but ministers would not insinuate that they could - control another assembly. (Hear.) Could it be said that in another place any measure advantage ous to Ireland was certain of passing ? Any - thing disadvan tageous to her was, he knew, sure to pass,—any measure spring ing from malignant hatred of that country. (Hear, and mur murs.) No more on that point. He rose on the present occa sion principally for the purpose of apologising to his constitu ents for permitting one vote respecting this despotic bill to pass without discussing it; but, as the noble lord had postponed the first reading till Wednesday in compliance with the suggestions of ; persons opposed to the bill, he would content himself at pre sent with giving notice that he would move a call of the house for Wednesday, and would repeat the call whenever he thought he perceived any relaxation of its effect as long as the bill was before the house. There was a time when the phrase " the madness of slavery" was cheered in that house. He felt the madness of slavery coming over him then. He would say no more, at present. Mr. STANLEY complained' that two matters had been con nected which were independent of one another, and an oppo sition had been raised before it was known what was coming. The ministers had always intended to give their attention to acknowledged grievances. They were anxious to show that they had acted up to their professions. The measures which they had already announced ,had extorted a reluctant approval from the hon. and learned gentleman himself, to the position, that from them great and substantial good was likely to arise. They had acknowledged their conviction that some alterations were necessary; they . had pledged themselves to bring them forward, and it was impossible for any administration to go on which could not carry its measures. Whether he sat upon these benches or the opposite, whether in office or out, he should equally have supported the present bill, which he con sidered not a coercive, but a protective one. He would have the country to knoW, that there was no intention on the part of government to evade or elude the fulfilment of their profes sions; but he did not see, that to convince the country of their truth, it was at all requisite that the remedial and the other bill shouldyaripassu. The honourable and learned gentleman said that the government could not carry the measures for the benefit of Ireland in the House of Lords. He (Mr. Stanley,) said that to the remedial measures, as to the coercive plea sures, his Majesty's government was pledged. If they could not carry both the coercive measures and the remedial mea sures they were not a government. (Loud cheering.) If they were unable to carry their measures through both houses they were unworthy to retain their offices, and he should hold himself disgraced by continuing in the situation which he had now the honour to fill. (Cheers.) He said that his Majesty's .government was pledged, as a government, to all its measures, whether remedial or coercive. Tell him that they could not carry their measure! Then they were not — they dare not put themselves forward as—the ministers of the country. On the faith of their character, their station, their honour as gentlemen, that they would not hold situations which they could not fill, he called upon the house to give his Majesty's ministers its con fidence. (Cheers.) They had announced certain measures as the line of policy, which they intended to pursue. They could not stop to inquire which of those measures were to be carried first in either house, but he again said that if they could not carry their measures they ought not to continue as the govern ment of the country. The two sets of measures were independ ent of each other, but, at the, same time, the failure of the one, or the failure of the other, would equally imply this—that they had not the confidence of the two houses of parliament, and, therefore, ought not to continue iu office. (Cheers.) D. BALDWIN, Mr. FINN, and Mr. F. O'Coeson., stated their firm determination to resist the measure of coercion, whatever might be the nature of the remedial bills. Mr. SHELL said the rightlionourable gentleman had declared that no government ought to continue i f they did not carry their pledges into effect. He would ask, with respect to the. passing of bills through another house, what had become of the Jury Bill of last session, which passed taat house ? The Chancellor of the Exchequer had been questioned by him (Mr. S.) on the subject, and the reply obtained was, that the government were •pledged on the subject, and he might trust them. Was not that a remedial measure ? What had become of it? It had been referred to a committee, and where was their report ? Had the pledge been redeemed in this instance ? Lord ALTUORP said that he had given the pledge with per fect sincerity of intention ; (cheers;) the bill had certainly not been carried into the other house, but that circupastance was owing to the lateness of the session. He was prepared to show that the bill could not be proceeded with. tie acknowledged that the pledge was unredeemed, but he might fairly say, that he did not consider that he would have failed in it. 'This being the case, he thought it right to admit that the pledge he had given must .be redeemed in the course of the present- session. Leheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL said the right hon. secretary quite mistook .him if he supposed him to say that his opposition to the coer cive measures would be in the smallest degree mitigated by the success of the remedial ones. He did not expect, because he had yielded to an impulse of gratitude towards those whom he considered to be the enemies of his country, to be Mooted with .the approbation he had bestowed upon some of the measures of go.verninent, and to have his expressions of satisfaction with those measures flung back at him in the way they had been by the right hon. secretary. The bill was then ordered to be printed, and to be read a first time on 'Wednesday next. .. Mr. O'CONNELL then moved that the house be called over on Wednesday next—Ordered. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the committee of supply was pus:polled to Wednesday. Mr. Cueeleir gave notice, that on the motion for going into a conanittee of supply he would' propose a resolution deciaring that the rich should pay for stamps and auction duties in the same procoi tion as the poor. ill answer to a queStion from Mr. GOULBURN, Mr. STANLEY stated, that it was his intention to bring in a bill respeCting the deaneries of Down and Raphoe, unless lie found that. he could effect his object by a clause in the bill for the reformation of the Irish church. APPOINfME,NTS UNDER THE CEOWN. Mr. Ilumm moved fur the appointment or "a select commit tee to examiue and report the number of members of both houses of Parliament who hold. office, place, and emolument under the cro►vn or public offices, and the amiunt of salaries and allowances, present and in reversion.." 'I he hon. member. exptessed his opinion 'that. no' incliNidual holding Office at the pleasure of the Crown should sit and vote in the House of Com mons, and he would even carry his principle so far as to exchsa , 'e officers in the army and navy. He had stated that opinion be fore, and it had been considered a very extraordinary one, but it was founded on experience. On referring to documents he found it somehow or other happened that the great majority of the military and naval officers in the house had always been in the habit of voting with the government in support of measure s which were prejudicial to the interests of the country at - large. That was the case in the unreformed Parliaments—what might happen now he did not know. The number of persons 'sitting in that house who held appointments under the Crown he a. latterly diminished. in 1714 there were 200 persons of this description in the house; in 1717 there were 207, and in 1822, 148; but this number required to be further reduced. On the suggestion of Lord ALTHORP, the motion was so amended as to require an account with respect to antecedent periods. An hon. MEMBER thoughtthat the people ought to be allowed to send whom they pleased to represent them in the House of Commons. Although he was an officer, he believed that he should conduct himself with as much temper, judgment, and im partiality, as the hon. member for Middlesex himself. (Hear.) Officers who were receiving a small pittance of half-pay, the only reward of services performed for their country, were as likely to act as independently as persons who were endeavouring to court popularity by appealing to the passions of the people. Mr. HUME said, that the last speaker was mistaken if he sup posed that he meant to calumniate any person. All members of that house were honourable men, and though he found member* voting in one particular way on all occasions, they were still honourable men. He could not suppose that officers would act otherwise than as honourable men, but he knew that they stood in a different situation from himself in that house. Th'e King could not deprive him of a commission, but he could an officei-, consequently he was a dependent man. (" Oh.") There was on the table of the house a return which showed that upwards of 1000 officers had been deprived of their commissions without being tried by a court-martial, and without any reason being It, signed for their dismissal. It might be recollected that a gallant officer of high reputation, formerly member for Southwark, was deprived of his commission without any cause assigned, and when he appealed to the House of Commons he could obtain no redress. The hon. and gallant member had insinuated that he was courting popularity. He despised popularity (" oh") in the sense in which the hon. member had employed the word. He would not court popularity for any unworthy Object, but he would court it in order to enable him to do a good act, and to promote the interests of his country. (Hear, hear.) He begged it to be understood, that in what he had said respecting ofileers, he meant nothing offensive to any individual. Captain BERKELEY said, that if the honourable member for Middlesex had not on former occasions cast imputations oa those members who were in the habit of supporting government he might have felt indignation at what had fallen from hips with respect to the officers of . the army and navy, of the latter of whom he was one. The hen. member could not know what the word honour meant, or he never _would suppose that an office: would sell his constituents for the sake of his paltry half-pay. Every officer would throw back upon the honourable member the imputation which he had cast upon them. From his sup posing that officers could be actuated by such motives as he at • tributed to them, he could not help thinking that if the hon. member were in their situation he would himself be actuated by those motives. Sir E. CODRINGTON said he would not condescend to reply to the imputations which the hon. member for Middlesex had cast upon the officers of the army and navy ; but he wished to say a few words as to the hon. member's general proposition. He (Sir E. Codrington) considered half-pay not as a, retaining fee, but a reward for past services. He was ready to maintain that proposition either on the principle on which pensions were granted or by a reference to the opinion of the twelve judges delivered in the case of the former Duke of St. Aiban's, when a lieute nant in the navy, in 1793. It was proposed to deprive the duke of his half-pay on account of his not having offered himself for service, but the twelve judges gave it as their opinion that it could not be taken from him, because it was the reward of past services. Mr. P. HOWARD said that some instances of officers being dismissed from the service occurred iu the early part of the: American war; but such cases had rarefy occurred, lately. The ground on . which Sir R. Wilson was deprived of his com mission was one strictly military. An Hon. MEMBER complained of the manner in which naval and military officers had been slandered by the lion. member for Middlesex. He considered that no restriction ought to be put on the choice. He had studied the constitution of his country, and he had yet to learn that it was inconsistent with its princi ples for a soldier to enjoy all the privileges of a British citizen. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK did not think it was a good principle to restrict the choice of the people with respect to their representatives. The existing law declared certain persons ineligible to sit in Parliament. His hon.'friend (Mr. Huine) had only followed out that principle, and by so doing had shown that it was bad. Mr. COBBRIT said that by the Act of Settlement all officers under the Crown, civil and military, were excluded from that house. For his own _part, he would rather see military officers in that house than the landowners, who had pocketed so much of the public money. (A laugh,) He agreed with the gallant admira!, that the half-pay of officers ought to be regarded as the reward of past services, and that they ought to be subjected to the same sort of treatment as Sir Robert Wilson had received. (Hear, hear.) He was sorry to say that there were in different parts of England several old soldiers and sailors who - had bee n maimed in the service of their country, and who had had their pensions taken from them without any cause assigned. (No, no.) He had a petition to present from an old soldier, residing in Oldham, who had been wounded in the battle of Waterloo, complaining that his pension had been withheld, in conse quence of his being unable from illness to go out, when called on to do so. Lord J, RUSSELL said, that it was a regulation with respect to Chelsea pensioners, that if, when called upon to serve in a veteran battalion, they did not answer the tail, they were nu longer considered as pensioners. The 'same - rule applied, lie believed,tonfacers on half-pay. If, however, a sufficient reu sou was given,for their absence, they were reinstated in the list of pensioners. He had written a letter to the hon. member for Oldham respecting the pensioner to whom he had alluded, and had directed it to Mr. William Cobbeft, as he unuerstood the hon. member disliked the title.of "esquire." The hon member returned an answer, stating that the letter was unsatisfactory,. for no other reason that he (Lorti John Russell) could iieagiae than that the hon. member hail, in this instance, as in ethers, changed his mind, and was dissatiElied with the mode of address which he had himself prescribed. (Laughter.) • Mr. COBBETT said that the part of the letter which was un satisfactory was the inside, and not the outside. .(Laughter. Lord J. RUSSELL said that with respect to the quest,on, whe ther it was desirable that persons in .particu.ae situation; should be excluded from that house, he was inclined to concur, for the first time he believed, with the lion member for. tiath (Mr. Roebuck). He thought it a bad prideiple to restrict the choice of the people. if a brave and gallant officer, acquainted with the interests of his country; was chosen as the representa tive of any constituency, he fur one was disposed. not to put a veto on that choice. (Hear, hear.) Colonel ToititEas could not concur in the principle which, had been laid down by his hen. friend (Mr. Hume). - if that; principle had been acted uppn, Lord Chatham. never could have been a public man. - He could not consent to,subject to the discipline of his hon. o friend, and he therefo re th oug h t i t right to leave the camp as quickly as possib:e. (The hon. inem ber, who occupied a place near Mr. Flume, here took up his hat, and immediately moved off to a distant part of me house, amidst shouts of laughter.) • Mr. HOME said he was very giad his hon. friend had left the camp, for he was of very little service iu it. (Laughter.) With respect to the insinuations cast upon him by an hon. member opposite, he begged to say that he threw them back with cmi-. tempt. The.motion was then agreed to and the committee appointed. CORPORATION " REFORM." Mr. M. ATTWOOD rose to call the attention of fhe horise pursuant to notice, to the petition of R. H. Franks, and. to move that the order for referring it to the committee on intini cipal corporations be discharged. He contended that that eust nuttee could have no jurisdiction in this matter, inasmuch as the Merchant Tailors' Company, to which the petition referred, was a trading corporation, and not a municipal. one. He knew not by what ingenuity it could be attempted to be proved that this corporation. possessed anything of a municipal character. He found by the records of the company that it always had been considered a trading corporation. In' proof of this, he would state that the company sent its officer on the day of Bar tholomew fair with a sliver yard iu his hand, to see that all measuies used at that fair were good. It was not an original privi;ege of this and other•similarcompanies to have the power of voting for members of 'Parliament; it was long after their institution that ,the . elective franchise was conferred on the - liverymen of these companies by an orderof the corporation of London, which was the only municipal corporation in that city, It would be much better it 'ministers consulted the ianblic in terests by . confining . themselves to the immediate business of the state, instead of mstituting.experimental inquiries like ,that with respect to corporations, to which the people were no par ties, as not having demanded them. That reformed house was • - Concluded on page 221. •