The Sun. — London, England, 1817-11-03 00:00:00

THE 'civrilorAc CLAIMS. TOR THE SUN. LETTER I. EDITOR,—By the inere4 tiCcident I hiive ittumhleil npon a paniTildet •(profeiving "ti) be an ariSiver to 'Mr. PEP:t.,F.'s late Speech upon the'C.l•• tholie:Cfints), tvh!ch is no 'further worthy 4.t Your, attention, Or that elf rho Pub!ie r than as a solitary excepriorrt to the silence which therto been preserved by the scribblers Ro- Than tithOlic Chimants.. I confess I was antoug the -I,imber of 'those 'whom this professed answer appea.rs to consider little short of ideots, for ~. iferrin.g that, as no an swer had been given for so ninny months, the ar guments of the Rif 'it Secretary were *man sWerable ! It seems. 'however, that I laboured Under an.'oblio . .. e . l ` s , of judgment, too general, alas! anv., 'lOnger endured, and this tardy answer, anti r...:1" pa ting the mischief of so grievous an error ',4l. , coming general, assures us, in direct terms, " that it is renzarkably open to reply.-- , and even to refutation !" ‘Vhat a pity the task has been so long delayed! From the late appearance of this answerer, we might, indeed, be led Into the- fur ther erroneous conclusion, that his avowed opi nion is somewhat at variance with his experience, since there seems to be no deficiency of zeal, and, certainly, no indications of modesty, which could possibly have interfered with his immediate ad vance towards this remarkably easy conquest. Great pains are, to be sure, taken to inform us, , that " the manuscript had been out of the an " thor's hands for a considerable time," and the poor Publisher is forced upon the stage, like the old prologue, to inform the world, that this im portant work • has been delayed by causes which " it is in no degree interesting to the Public to " particularize."- , --Of this I entertain not a doubt: but most unfortunately for the voucher (who m as a patriotic bookseller, may, however, he hardened to the task) the author himself most unadvisedly l e ts our. that his onli. motive for entering upon the task at all was the long neglect of others, in and out of Parliament, to do so. So that we lave an apology for del',y on, the one hand, with a. mysterious Burleigh-like shake of the head, and a flippant avowal on the other, that the answer was never thought of till long after the third edition ofthe offending Speech had been cir 'culating thiough every part of the Empire.—You say, this has nothing to do . with the merits of the . publication ; I might answer, that I leave ' the nieritsot it altogether to be discoVered by those who have .a more penetrating discernment than tnyself;- . -Aut I humbly conceive, Sir, that it has 'Much' to do with the quttlifications of the writer, and setting aside the impression which must ever follow an attempt at imposition, it goes clearly in this instance 'to prove, that via PARTY being utterly incapable of finding, purchasing, or bunt. log dawn any respectable opponent to arraign or confute the arguments of*.Mr. PEELS, they were . at last stung into a reply, at all hazards, when they saw that Editions were multiplying, and the Pub lic Opinion settling into Conviction upon the powerful evidence which they carried with them. The Co►aclave was up in arms.—Aggregate Meet ings were held, and the !dab Secretary was suf- liciently vilified to gratify the most sanguinary and desperate of the liberal party—but all this, as our wise author observes, was no answer, that is, no answer to the reasoning part of the Nation—" It " is, he says, unaccountable that the Publication " should hare reached a third edition without hay. " ing drawn an antagonist of any description into " the field of controversy ; " he must, he adds, " consider it to be a mark of the desultory and no " settled temper of the Times, that_a public Do- curneut of this kind should have passed arm " swered in the House of Commons—and dropped " STILL-BORN from the press !" It is not difficult - to detect the Country of our Answerer; for noEnglish- man, it is presumed, or even a Scotsman, would be surprised at a document (meaning - the printed speech) passing unanswered in the House of Com- nions,—or have made the wonderful discovery that this said pamphlet (whose great crime was having Passed micoutradicted and unrefined through three editions) had dropped " STILL-ROAN" from the press ! "In the solution of this phcenomenon" (a goodly and apt phrase) " he does not think it g' would be sole to rely on the suggestion of par tial friends who have gone so far as to say" (impudent varlets 1 .) " that the speech has not " been answered, because it was unanswerable. " For a statement which has been so largely cm- " mended, be cannot help saying, that it appears to him to he remarkably open to reply, and even "to refutation!" It• remains for those who will be at the pains to wade. through sixty seven pages octavo to, decide whether the Reply, as it appears to my humble judgment, has not a remarkable tendency to confirin—nistead of ref uting this opinion. Poor Mr. GRATTAN ittnost woefully bespattered (or not having, at all events, answered, and chaiiigetl nor. PRET.E, and hfte" being Vint - pare to a• Race Horse who has rnn his cotirse", i 5 - nest gratefully and humanely consigned `to the plotigh, not howevet without sothe shew of e6m miseration. "We pity" (our author says) "ihe " noble creature, and say he deserved a bate! " fate." Could we he grave upon any-siiitiment proceeding from such a quarter, we inlght raise our voices in a higher tone of appeal to THOSE STATESMEN, nho, losing sight ofthe great Land ritrks of the Constitution, suffer themselves, through a subserviency to temptirizing policy, or by the affectation of liberality, to Sanction claims which they know must have some limit, and tell them, that when they propose or defend that I.mit,'llongh it be At THE VEKT FOOT OF THE THRONE, they will be more bitterly hated—more virulently reprobatPd by the Catholics, than their uniform and consistent opponents ;—will be over whelmed like the early, phihlsophical, and liberal: promoters of the French Revolution---.or trampled underfoot like poor Mr. GRATTAN ! It is, alas ! the peculiar characteristic and curse of the pre sent day, that men reason up!in Questions of State as if there were no Futurity, . If a diffi culty arise, it is to be met with expedients, which in their very nature- can have only a temporary effect upon the pressing , evil; whilst tit* conse quences of the Remedy may ultimately affect the whole body politic ! 1t is as if _a Surgeop were to heal up a wound in, aiiiinsmind patient, with out calculating upon file Cffect.thereby to, be pro doted upon the general constitution. It is like any thing anti every thing unknown to and un practised by ?Hose ILLUSTRIOUS PATRIOTS to whom we owe our proud and preponderaling dis tinction in the scale of nations ; which may Heaven preserve from the" wreck and spoil of sound principle and constitutional spirit, in which our liberality and our theories threaten to involve us it) the present awful crisis of our fate Look round the world, to the rudest and most polished periods of History, and shew me where politi cal expedients or a temporizing policy have ever conduced to the honour or preservation of States ! Permanency has ever been the concomitant of fixed principles. Patriots (par eitellence) have ever been innovators—To Patriots of this class the Grecian Liberty fell a sacrifice—By the same men the Roman Republic was overthrown, and by their apes France became a wreck. But to proceed, our Respondent is a subtle logician, and it) commenting upon the fitness and expediency of exempting the Catholic Prelates from any foreign influence, he objects to Mr. PEELR's distinction between the Pao and Domestic Nomination, humbly opining that the end alone. is to he cotrsideted, and the means to be disregarded. "To 11 man or " plain understanding (he says) the character of " the measure can only refer ,to its objects ;" the objects in this case are, .foreign intloenc,e, and " the reputation of the Party to be chosen."- , -- Ergo, one mode of pt . ocectling is just the same as another. 7' . , , But to descend from this - preetons specimen of Hibernian. Casuistry; (abithit as lucid,' and cer tainly as prOfdin l , as that of our Edinburgh Critics)/ to bluffer of fact, the learned Author 'decides that the new'• panacea ni" Do- Mestie sont ination" is oporrivis and Sir HistaT PARNEL.L . S authority inst 83 efficient and satisfac tory as the Veto. True indeed, if, as he insists, the character of the measure only refers to its ob ject—for the object, as 'appears at least from the circumstances which attended the one, and may therefore be entailed upon the other, was neither more nor less than to delude and entrap the na tion into a surrender of the Catholic Claims upon a pledge that was never intended to be re deemed ! But if the two remedies are to be con sidered in the abstract as applying to the question of securities, we shall require something more to satisfy ns respecting them, than the authority of Sir EIENRY PARNELL, or even the assurance of our Author, who brings thisin proof of how re-' marlcubly easy it is to overthrow the reasoning and facts of Mr. PEELE. The Veto itself, as far as my own individual opinion goes, was far from affording any satis factory security against the ambition and en croachments of the . aspiring Catholics ; but its objvct was clearly to exclude altogether foreign influence, which our Author admits to be the ob ject contemplated in the new proposition of Do mestic Nomination. Bur why was the Veto, after having been explicitly offeretl by the leading Re presentatives of .the Roman Catholic Ciaims, re jected by the Roman Catholics themselves ?—The Bishops declared " that they could not he parties " to the Ecclesiastical arrangements without in " curring the guilt of schism—and the Roman " Catholic Laity declared, that they would pre " fer their present state of exclusion to the re " moval of that exclusion on the Conditions pro ' " posed." What were. the conditions proposed ? Simply that foreign influence should be aban doned ! 'And yet this very silly Gentleman who has undertaken the task of answering Mr. I'EELE, insists upOn the efficacy of the Auccedanetunsnow. proposed, because it is to preclude foreign i►tter ference. He. says, the character of the measure is the same, taking the character front the, object to which it applies, which is, by his own admis sion, this very foreign influence. Is it nOt the!) arguing in a circle. to say, we should adopt this measure, because its principle is the same with that which was before rejected by the Catholics on the single ground that it did preclude foreign influence !—Does he imagine that the Catholics of Ireland are such poor harmless beings, or as Sir BOYLK ROACH would have called them, little birds to be caught in a. trap , --though they refused to perch in a cage ? Or rather does he suppose the Supporters of the Constitution . are likely to be the dupes of an artifice, because it is newly painted .and patched, and presented under an alias! . . , -%Vbat security can we even pretend to hope for against foreign influence—whenforeigniAuence is avow e dly th e cause o f w iti t h o ldi ng any c4ticts sion, in exchange for granting the skims . of' the .. ~ _ - . , M . ROMAN C ATHOLICS ? But even if we w e re s.: posed to be illindtadded by such men as Sir 1-tEk:iii' l'Atuleu, and his anonymous advocate, air Citho lies themselves ‘vould tear the bandage horn our eyes. .11:hen they get together THEY cannot help srEAKING OUT, and What tv ith the Bulls of their Cotinny and the Bolls of Rome, no man that is not wilfully blind, can be ignoraut of the gsal. 03.1r*Cr the'y have in 'view. it is 'an unfortunate circumstance for the Reforineri *of this cbtintry iliat the love of which it its proVerliiilly ' an appendage; ''as it is to tire 'state of spinsieiy, is t. • accompanied by a fed-fa/C•press—and that the ambition of hrators is so tar paramount to their discretion, that their folly is no sooner batched, titan it is etposed to public view. If- this country ever fall by the subversion of the •ConstitntiOti, it Will' be owing nricso much to the machinations of its enemies, as by the luke . warm support of its hitct-at Mena. The very abuses and licentiousness of the press are a safe gnard..--an alarttm-bell tti git 6 notlee' to the -gar rison of any ant ward attack and though much tnischit f may he effect ell by the union of ignorance and treason In bonds of 04sic4I•force, It It to be hoped the GOOD SENSI3 1111 d GoOD Fe LING of the Country. will ever he proMpt to repel the aggres sors front the final object of. their pernicious am, bition. It is through our Legislature that the Constitution is truly assailable ; and should the day ever arrive, when speculation, and what are • called liberal men,..that is, men who without fixed principles themselves, consider all test of princi ple as an oppresiive ..and burdensoMe restraint, gain an ascendancy, an experiment gill be tried upon the Constitution which it needs not the gift of prophecy to aver must an d w ill be attended with a risk and hazard, which sound and sober men will view with terror and apprehension ; an. ex periment involving no less. than the attempt to keep a great and complicated machine in the same direct motion which it has hitherto preserved, after the subduction of some of the Main wheels, which were affixed to it by the true legitimate and original constructors ! But this will lead 'us into a disquisition' which would - Occupy too much of ,your valuable l'aper.- 7 1f I may be permitted to put sue it through the same channel, 1 shall not fail to avail myself of the indulgence to expose the , futility of this e x pi r i ng e ff ort to rev i ve a ques tion, to which our able and enlighted Secretary forltish Affairs has nearly given a death-blow.— . lank,Sir, your obedient Servant, LANFR:kNE:.. NEXT FRIDAY THE LOTTERY WILL COMMENCE DRAWING.-SIX PRIZES OF TWENTY THOUSAND POUNtk-MORE PRIZES THAN BLANKS. TO CORRESPONDENTS. Tttc MEETINo if JACOBINS To-morrow,—Other favntus are unavoidably delayed. THEATRICAL REGISTER. Performed on Saturday Night. THEATRE 'ROYAL,. DRtiRY-LANs•—Qtl,e)lo: Othello Mr. Kean ; De , demona, Miss. Robinson. After which, The Falls of Clyde. THEATRE ROYAL, COVENT-GARTER.—The Castle of Anda lusia: Don Alphonso, Mr. Witham; Lozenza. Miss Ste xphens. After which, The Father and his Children. ARRIVZIO-2 France, I Lisiztin, t Pander., t Guerngey and Jersey, 2 Dublin, '2 Watcrforil. 'llue—Haraibtirgli, 1 Hol land. 3 Guttenburgh. PRICK OF STOCKS - ..THIS OA* 3 per Cent. Red. 81i . 82 India Bo ,11:11i3 104 , . Mfr 3 par Cent. Cons. .. H 2 Exch. Bills, id._ 19s. 20s. pr, 4 pet Cents.. 5 per Cent. Ann... 107 101 i Ditto, 3d. . 19s. •Os. pr Bank L. Ann. ..... "20i 21 Con.s. for Account,..B2il Average Price of Brown or Musetirado Sugar, computes from the Returns wade. its the week cutting the 29th day to: October, 1317, is bss. OV. per Cwt. HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO-MORROW. Slurniv, 56 minutes after 9. f Evening, 13 ;ninnies after 111 •rear SUN. soLem Quis DICERS FALSUM AUUEAT ? LONDON, MONDJY, NOVEMBER 3, 1817. We received yesterday three days Paris Papers to Thursday last inclusive, and this morning those of Friday. We give extracts from the former in our last page. They refer again to the reports of hostile movements on the 'part of Spain against Portugal, for the purpose of still further discredit ing them ; and it is intimated, to the same effect as we have already stated, that the High Allied Powers will, by their mediation, adjust the dif ferences that have arisen between the two States referred to. The new Dey of Algiers it appears fell a sacri fice to- a popular commotion, , in which he "was strangled on the 18th September, fifteen days after the assassination-of his predecessor. The disturbance is stated to have originated in a claim made by the English Consul for the delivering up o f a Hamburg!) vessel carried into Algiers. The Dey d all the Consuls having in consequence refused, threatened to withdraw, a tumult ensued, in which the Dey lost his life. Another Dey was installed, who is said to have been previously a shoemaker, and he, it is reported, offered to deliver up Bona in deposit to the English, but it was not known whether the proposition had been accepted. The conditions on which the Russian squa dron has heel) transferred to the Spanish cr vice, are st,ited in the ankles from Madrid, to he at present entirely kept secret. The following are extracts from the Journals Of Friday : e‘ Pants, OcT.3l.—The Councillors of State and Masters of Requests, attached to the respec tive Committees of Council, assembled yesterday at the Hotel of the Chancellery at I 1. , o'clock in the thoining . , pitt:.nan't to Stttililtr,t,stA t9snc by' the Keeper of the Seals, Who prtsided at the sit ting. the CoUntil vat ovGit lied Witli the exa; Initiation kittd dlscuSsion of a projet of law re specting the techlitini r t of the Artny: The Mini sters fOr the Departments of War; General Police / and the Milne, were peseta. " The Maripti'S ilarbe Marbois, Minister of State and IFirst President of the Court of Accounts, had the hOnOur to present, yesterday, to his• M ajesty, before Mass, Maclaine Michelin. This Lady is, it is said, the daughter of M. Delaunay, who commanded the Grenadiers of the Conven tion (lit the 13th Vendemiare, and who was after wards deported to Cayenne, where he died. The Vrinee de Talleyrand lias returned to Paris. " The Poles in this capital celebrated estertlay• in the Church of Saint Mich, at funeral service iii honour of General Kosciusko. " The Duke d'Angouleme arrived at Caen the 23d, and remained there the next day. The 25th his Royal Highness set out. for Cherbourg!). " The trial of the 29 individuals, accitsell of treasonable conspiracy, is proceeding at Lyons. On the 26th the reading - of the papers was finished, and the interrogatories of the accused „corn. , menced. The 27th the interrogatories continued, and the next they it was expected the Court would proceed 0.) the examination of witnesses. 'Several of the accused have reverted to their first declara tions, and almost all of them agree in a complete system of denial. " The 24th, the Duke of Ragusa reviewed the National Guards and ether troops at . Vienne, de. partment of here. " A Lady of very high birth has, within these few days, taken theyeil at the Ursulines, Rue de Vongurard, FRENCH FIVE PER CENTS. " Monday -" Tuesday 65 f.. Oc. Wednesday • " Thu r sday 64 f. 80c. " BALE, Ocr. 21.—The Gazette of Arax has reptiled, with great indignation, an insinuation in the Weymar Journal, that the great pemers ought to give to Switzerland a Sovereign in the person of a German Prince, with a Representative Go vernment. " LYags, OCT. 25.—1 t appears by the papers respecting the trial here, that there were three principal Committees of Insurrection, of ‘shiel, one was the Head that each Committee Lad apA pointed Chiefs wit() assumed different titles or ranks, and who were specially charged with the enrollment of a great number of individuals.--= At the moment when the groupes of Insurgents from the.country presented Ihemselves at the gates of the city, each person enrolled was to, pro ceed to the place assigned .to him, and•thui several .thoatsand men assembled in Com panies were to favgur the entrance of the Rebels, whose first crime was to be the assassination of the Mayor of Lyons. It appears that the Mem bers of the different Committees did not know each other, and that s cud' person initiated only knew the person by whom 'he had been engaged in the conspiracy. " The Duke of Ragusa returned here this morn ing. " PRESBURGH, OCT. 14.—A letter from Sza mabor, in Croatia, dated the sth inst. states as follows About 15 (ays since some Italians came to Catstadt with a lion, a tiger, a panther, a leopard, a hyena, monkeys, and birds, for the purpose of a public exhibition. After their de parture for Laibach, the hyena. unfortunately made his escape from them, ,between Moettling and Neustadr. He was seen eight days since r:t Mokritz, and in the environs of Sichelbourg, irs which quarter he has killed nine children. itlorc than 700 Peasants are now in pursuit of this terrible animal, of whose further ravages we arc every day receiving intelligence.' " AUGSBURG, OCT. 23,—The Vintage is excel , - lent, and very productive in Austria and Hun-, gary. NUREMBERG, OCT. 23.—The last letters from Poland mention the very brilliant reception of tbf. Emperor• of Russia at Kiow. His Imperial Ma jesty passed some days there,, and then set out to proceed to the bead-quarters of General Beta lingsen. " BERLIN, OCT. 21.—The King has conferred on the English Lieutenant-General Murray, Chief of the Duke of Wellington's . Staff, the Order of the Red Eagle of the Ist Class, and on the En'' list) Colonel }larding the same Order of the 3d Class. " DRESDE.V, OCT. ,19.—The opening of the General Assembly of the States of Saxony ;ools, place here to-day.'• A Lisbon Mail, with Leiters anti Papers to.the 2.1 d ult. arrived yesterday. The sentence pissed upon the persons engaged in the sate conspiracy tyt of Pt wi qt. tb2 Cull the