The Sun. — London, England, 1847-04-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, APRIL 20, 1847. ments in the prices paid, on account of their belonging to regard the value of life, or to respect the constituted to the association. The working classes of that town and lawful authorities of the country. This appeared to were now getting their own frames and carrying him to afford an irresistable argument upon the on work on their own account. Referring to subject. It was clearly the duty of Government to the pamphlet of Dr. Shuttl e w orth ; h e could not see protect the lives and property why the Government shou ld have s anctioned the gross and as ignorance tended the render _of fthe both life libel which he fou nd contained i n page 20 of the and property unsafe, he was at a loss to conceive how " Minutes of Education." He stated there that the it could be denied that education belonged to the pro object of the Dissenters in their opposition was to vince of Government —(Hear, hear.) It was admitted advance the interests of particular sects. Now, what he that Government by s ome means ought to protect the (Mr. Duncombe ) wanted to know was, what objections lives and property of the community. Now, if they c ould there be to the motion of whi c h h e h a d g i ven too k awa y e ducation what means were there left. Absoe notice ? It had been said by the Noble Lord at the lutely none which could be resorted to except in cases of bead of the Government, that it was a vote of censure, extreme necessity. Take away education, and all that though he (Mr. Duncombe) did not cons id er it as suc h ; wa s left to th em was military force, gaols, penal settle but if the Noble Lord would have it so, let it be taken as ments, gibbets, and tortures. Now if the protection of such, as it involved a principle which he considered a life and property were the end to which Government just one. He for one could not consent to the patronage was boun d to look, the only wise and effectual means which was to be conferr e d on a se lf- e l ecte d b o dy ; and to at t a in it was, to elevate the moral and intellectual the increased power whi c h it gave to t h e C rown . Already character of the people. If Government h a d th e power the patronage of th e G overnment h a d b een too of inflicting punishment en the poor, who cou ld d ou b t u l t t y se o e f med to Governmenthim no proposition to provide educe much increased. L e t t h em l oo k t o the in- th at that creased patronage given th em by the railway tio n lf.torwaSthetmhe d ? board. The l oca l S ma ll D e b t C ou rts had also could be more plain. The truth was manifest when they increased their p a t ro n age ver y mu ch. The . judges reflected that had it been acted up on , p ro b a bl y more which were cr ea t e d, an d were t o be created, under that than one-half of the population who had been executed Act, would cause a vast accession to their patronage. for crime might still have been alive—more than one- It was thus increased to an enormous extent. The new half of the inmates of th e gao l s m i ght have been at Board of Health proposed under the Bill just introduced liberty, and more than one-half of the inhabitants of would give the Ministry more patrona ge ; and there the penal settlem en t s m i g h t h ave been honourably em were also to be four new Bishops, without seats, ala l p loyed . on their nati ve so il . —(Ch eers.) L ooking at the pointed. These Bisho ps were to be without sea t s , but first report present e d t o t h e C omm i ttee of Educat i on, they were to occupy t he vaca ncies as they occurred. In just a ft er a per i o d of insurrection, it appeared that in addition to this, there was now proposed these pensions the district where the insurrection had taken place there to schoolmasters and schoolmistresses, which would were about 11,000 children of the age at which children greatly add to the power of the Government. The pa- were generally educated, but of these about 8,000 were tronage thus given them would be enormous. It was attending no school at all, while the other 3,000 attended too great a power to give to any Government, as they schools. these were defective in their system of educe could not tell within half a million of money what the tion—filthy to the last degree, and conducted by masters ex tent of this grant would be, within th e next who stood in the position of ruined tradesmen. In such twenty years. The Noble Lord had said a great districts as these where the population were suffered to deal about the unreasonableness of the opposition grow up in this state readily listened to the advice of but if ho thought so why not refer the whole subject to bad men, who were anxious to excite them to rise a Select Committee? Why not refer it for investiga- against the constituted authorities. Here was the tion to a fair, and enlightened, and impartial Committee? manner in which various insurrections were brought If the Government would not consent to this, it was a about, and what were the means resorted to to put it proof that there was something in the scheme which down. Having neglected to attend to one means they would not bear the light of day, and that the real ob- had only one other to adopt, and that was resorting to ject was to increase the power and influence of the military force. Had the people been educated they Crown. The result of this scheme, in his opinion, never would have listened to the advice of designing would be, that instead of a free and an enlightened men, and there would have been no necessity for people they would have an enslaved and corrupted na the shedding of blood. He said, therefore, that educa tion.—(Hear, hear.) He would n o w conc l u d e by mov - ti on was not on l y part o f t h e f unct i ons o f G overnment, ing the amendment of which he had given notice. but it was the best end to which Government ought to Lord DUNCAN seconded the motion. He had listened aim for the protection of the lives and property of the with great attention to the speech of the First Minister of community. When he saw the efforts that were being the Crown, and he confessed he had been much disap- made in the country against this scheme, and remem pointed with the speech. He had expected that the bered that all the great Legislators and moral philoso- Noble Lord would have made some explanation of the ne- phers of all ages, and the eminent men who were cessity which there ex i s t e d o f k ee pi ng u p t h e C ounc il o f genera lly disposed to restrict the functions o f Govern selacation which had caused such heart-burniegs in the ment, were in favour of such a plan—w h en he remem country. He had expected also that the Noble Lord bered that the opinion of all the greatest champions o f would have seen the necessity of including the Catholics civil and religious liberty, and of none more so than of as well as the Protestants in the grant; but he had been those whose memory were held in the greatest reverence disappointed. The Noble Lord had made great reference by the non-conformists of England, was in favour of to what had been done since 1839; whereas, in his (Lord Government education—he really was surprised to see Duncan's) opinion, that from 1834 to 1839, education the movement that was now going on throughout the had been in a more flourishing condition than it had country. He was the more surprised when he remem been in any former period. He wished to call attention bered Government education was supported by those to the constitution of the Committee of 1839, because he steunch non-conformists who, in time of Bishop found that the name of the then Master of the Mint Lied, for the sake of religious erinciple, (Mr. Labouchere) was now awanting, and further he left their native country for the new world of Massa saw that, whereas the commission of that year consisted chusetts, and when they established that State took the of thirty-nine persons, the commission of this year con- charge of education. In 1642 they passed their first sisted only of six persons, and these were all Members Act upon that subject, and the preamble recited that of the Government. He found that in the year 1841, Lord it was a matter of the deepest interest to the State that Monteagle, who had no connexion with the Government, the poorer class of the community should be educated but was only a Privy Councillor—he found him sitting under the direction of the State. He had peculiar on the commission of 1841. Now, if Lord Monteagle, pleasure in referring to such an authority as this, be being unconnected with the Government, and but a cause those who followed their religious principles in Privy Councillor—if he found Lord Menteagle a Mem- the present day were the advocates of the voluntary ber of that Committee, he should like to know whether system, and, in support of that system, they invariably any reason existed why the Archbishop of Canterbury, pointed to America, saying, see what the voluntary or the Duke of Norfolk, or Mr. Fox Maule, or such system has done there I Why the practice of America sort of persons—(Cheere, ironical cheers, laughter, and in this subject was just the reverse. A national system the most absolute abandon for a few seconds)—he only of education was the last legacy that Washington left to meant to say, that all, or any individuals might be the republic of the United States, while Jefferson was introduced under thie principle, on this Committee.-- ever an advocate of a system of education conducted by (Continued laughter.) Let the House look at the in- the State. He quoted the authority of Jefferson with spectors made by this Bill. They had 16 inspectors, peculiar pleasure, because of all the eminent public men who were paid 13,60(1., being thirteen and a-half that had ever existed in the world he was one of the of the whole outlay.—(Hear.) Now, he thought that greatest who had ever resisted any increase in the where this enormous expense was incurred in a mea- functions of Government. Against these authorities only sure for the benefit of one section of a class, that the one emimrelaaree:could be placed, and the clamour of 1846 House ought to look with jealousy at the whole Bill. against a Government system of education was raised Looking at the principle involved in the measure, he by those who opposed the wisdom of their former selves. thought that it was opposed in almost every particular It seemed to be the opinion of them who raised the to the rule which had guided Government in 1634. But clamour that the proper functions of Government was who was the originator of this measure ? Let them not always to wait till necessity called for the exercise of be told at one time that it was the Prime Minister, and military force, and they had nothing to do with resorting at another time that it was the President of the Council. to means for improving the intellectual and moral cha- He trusted that this subject would be reconsidered. He ratter of the people. The duty of tile statesman was did not desire to see himself placed in opposition to th e s i m ply t o see grea t towns grow up and provide gaols and Government, b ut h e trusted that the number of petitions barracks for the correction of the people instead of presented would have their eftct, and that they wo u ld sc h oo l s f or i mprovement o f t h e i r minds, and when not be thrown over to th e mercies of the Privy Council. moments of dang e r arr i ve d t h ey w ill b e wanted Knowing, as he did t h at the Right Hon. Bart., the Mem- to be at lib er ty t o sen d d own so ldi ers to mow them down, her or Tamworth, h ad opposed a grant of this kind in but he must on no aleount attempt to cultivat e or t eac h 1839, on a highly constitutional ground, he should con- the intellect of the people. The same might be said of elude by quoting a portion of the speech delivered by the populations of agricultural districts. He meant the him on that occasion. The Noble Lord quoted a por- incendiary's Torch was at work before th e s t a t esman tion of the speech o f Si r R o b ert Peel, in 1839, and sat could interfere, and he must ab s t a i n f rom a ll attempts to down by secondin g th e mot i on. remove the ignorance which might prevail on machinery Sir ROBERT INGLIS sa id that it would be in vain, and subjects of that nature. It was difficult to under at that moment, to try to create a different organization stand in what way men of undoubted ability and of in the machinery for giving education to the country. excellent intentions should have become attached to so He retained this conviction as strongly as ever, that it was strange a theory. The explanation which occurred to to the Church of England, and Church alone, that the State him was, that be believed a considerable portior of should delegate this duty ; aria however defective he this theory arose from the operation of a law of whsch might think this scheme of the Government he would they might trace the operation in many similar ways, receive it thankfully, if he could not receive it cheer viz., the law of reaction. The country was fully. It was his own deliberate conviction, that they was just fresh for a great contest with the Government would not have received so good a measure from any upon the subject of interference in matters of trade, other section or party in that House.—(" Hear, hear," men's minds were n a t ura ll y muc h exc i ted by the pro from Mr. Duncombe.) He (Sir R. H. Inglis) had stated cess. Much was said of the advantages of non-inter deliberately hie opinion, without any intention of injuring ference, of the advantages of free competition; and some her Majesty's Government in the eyes of those who had men of great ability and excellent intentions seemed in given them so general and so ready a support_(lronical dined, as soon as they had driven the Government from cheers.) It was asserted that the education given to the a promise which clearly did not belong to them, to drive population of this country had been generally furnished them from a promise which appeared to be clearly a by the Dissenters. He denied this. Until within the part of the legislative domain. When he looked into last century, they had no Dissenters at all—(Hear)— the works which had been wrttten upon the subject, he at least no Dissenters who assumed to themselves the saw the principles of non-interference clearly laid down. constitution of an independent church. An Hon. Gen- People were told to remember the power of the min tleman spoke of the Lancastrian system, but the Hon. cipl es of f a ir com p e titi on , an d t hi s argument seemed to Gentleman o ug h t to remember that the Church imme- pervade the whole of their thoughts, and the writers and diately introduced an equal if not a better system, that speakers seemed to imagine that if free competition was of Dr. Bell, which was universally allowed to an im- useful in matters of trade and commerce, it could be no proved method of education. The Hon. Member would less excellent when applied to the education of the peg find that all the grammar schools in England had been ple. They seemed to think, that because it was good founded by gentlemen belonging to the Church of Eng- when applied to corn, it must be sound also when ap land, and only within the last few years was a school plied to the school. No analogy could, however, be more founded by Dissenters. Still he could not but think, that false. Consider for a moment what it was which made the framers of this measure would find themselves advan- the principle of freedom of trade so excellent. In trade tsged by going to a constitutional school—(Laughter)--- there could be no doubt but that the producer or dis- He deeply regretted that he could not give an uncondi- poser of sugar could be able to sell his sugar at a more tional support to the measures of the Government, but reasonable price than if Government were to turn grocer yet while saying this he was bound to observe that no end open a grocer's shop in every parish throughout the new reason had been alleged—no new principle heel country.—(dear, hear.) Why was it so? Because any been advanced for the scheme which the Goveremeret individual grocer had more interest in adding to the had i prop ose d. All had been made fair and bright, bupublic welfare than any Government cou ld p oss ibl y h ave, t was evanescent in its character and quite unjustifiabLe If the grocer's prices were above those of his neighbours, in its principle. The Government appeared to have if the grocer's sugar was worse than that of his rivals, he acted on the principle of convenience, and according to was ruined; he had no customers; his name the facts which had transpired there might lie as soo n appeared in the Gazdie and his children present advantage, they were quite ready to avail them- tok refuge the union wor khouse.—(Hear, hear.) selves of it. They adduced the principle offered by the If, however, on the otherh an d, wer h' ihb i o s u supplr was good, the national schools, and might attempt to show how sue- prices were as low as his if ho conduct ed e cessful they had been. But they might as well attempt his business properly, and was civil to his custome rs, chaiset to show the principles of the mode of Government witl man would grow rich—he looked forward to his respect to the tide-waiters.—(Laughter.) It might be and to his country house; and this was the reason why said that with the advance of 100,0001., there orris the principle of free competition was beneficial in the a sufficient opportunity for carrying out the whole supply of goods. But there was not the slightest parallel of the scheme. But he had serious objections, and One in these cases between the freedom of trade in goods and first of these was to the unscriptural portion of the the education of the people. What class of men could education plan, and he had serious objections as to how have the same interest, the same strong and pressing in far these plans should be carried out. He had serious terest in supplying the poor with good schools as the objections to the plan as it now stood. He had seriouts grocer had in supplying his customers with good sugar? objections to an unsanctified education—to that education There were benevolent persons who contributed some that the guide post sometimes led to the gibbet. If they of their time in order to give education to the poor, and would give thereturns they wouldshow that education hail they might if they please say that there existed among Tether increased crime than led from it. By those returns he such persons a kind of benevolence and a competition to would show that out of 1,000 convictions, against those wh t, do good, but do not let Hon. Members be imposed upon by were shown to possess, at least, some degree of educe, a mere play upon words, or imagine that such a corn tion; 845 were against persons possessing education; anel petition is at all to be compared with that earnest, 145 against without education. He saw, however, ix/ strong, and fierce competition, prompted by the desire the reign of h er M a j esty ' s Government, that there wars for wealth on the one hand, and a dread of ruin on the a design to waive all minor offences, and with the hope other.—(Hear, hear.) Would it not be strange to that such would be the case, he would give his cordial say that there was a great deal of benovelence 'vote in support of her Majesty's Government, evinced in this country towards the poor, and Mr. MACAULAY regretted that he felt any neces.• up on that ground it wo u ld b e b et t er to a b ol i sh the Beaty to make an obse rva ti on on the plan of the Go- poor's rates, because the abolition of suc h rates would vernment for the educatio n o f t h e people. La give them more by the payment o f po or's rates from seemed a strange time to moot the question as voluntary contributions. The argument holds equally - to whether the people were to be educated good in the case of education as in the case of the 'or not, or whether it was the duty of the Government poor's rates. It must appear on a moment's consideration to provide them with that education. He might that the task of educating the people is 'cite the penal statutes to show that there was upon every ground just such as those with which no deficiency on the part of the public or of the the Government should interfere. Ha did not know state, as was well shown by the existence of th n that the duty of Government interference had been penal statutes. On that subject he could not quote an.), drawn with such clearness by any person as by Mr. higher authority, or use stronger terms than those oaf Hume.—(Laughter.) He referred to Mr. David Hume, Adam Smith, and he took Adam Smith's authority the and he had no doubt that the Hon. Member for Mon :more readily because it was well known that he rose would perfectly coincide in the opinion he was 'was no ad voca t e f or i ncreas i ng the power of about to quote. After laying down in the strongest Governments. Now, Adam Smith said there was a mariner the general principles of interfence o n th e part diff erence, and partic ularly in highly civilised commer- of the Government, Mr. Hume went on to say that, "as end countries between the education of the higher andi there are certain callings highly useful and necessary to . ant poorer classes of society. poor, Adam Smith pronounce d The education of the ► the state, but yet wh i ch do not give that degree of ad- Governments were most to be a matter in which. vantage to any individual adequate as remuneration for compared the ignorance haeply concerned ; and he his services, the State must, by means of bribes, by means lower classes of society v*te. m a h prevailed amongst the of distinctions, or by money secure him." If there was a as le dreadful disease, which it Iv anent to check. If he searched 1111. wilvilisat occurred ill prosy, or some other calling in the wide world to which this description ap duty of the Govern- plied that calling was that of the schoolmaster, whose select a stronger proof of this than history he could not business was to teach the poor. This calling was useful. this country in 1780. There they of ignorance upon the population. That his calling was necessary for the people no person One Ted the effect could dispute ;as little could it be, that he cannot and sand people, at the rumours of a mad d und m r a ed thou- does not obtain adequate remuneration without the in to overturn the empire, and to make the prede n, rose terference of the Government. Here, then. was an ob of the Speaker tremble in his chair —to pu e i rs t e h r: , -eious reasonable ule laid down by Mr. Hume, and this House of Lords off their cushions, and make Bisho s - was a case in which the Government was clearly called Ay over the tiles. (Hear and laughter.) That yrsvhuiPcha 13 Pen to interfere. There was no reason, a priori, to lierrovee that co uld application of the principles of non-in • oeeiar n e o d t u s e u e p ti p o l e y . th ß e u p t eo le p t le state of things, however laughable it might seem, the facts.P jt would not be satisfactory to witness again. At the .ciptieresnrce t w he it H h oaugsoeoleolopkri at to which he alluded, six and thirty fires were t was the system which had existed in blazing in di ff erent parts of the metropolis, the house , ngland fromhtl timmemorial ? It had always been eerference for the purpose of provid of the Chief Justice was destroyed, and the Prime i system of hots lin t p oor . I f, th f, then, that principle of Minister's children were carried from the nursery and ing education for th peop.e might th e principles upon which the ta.sfully be conducted; laid on the tables in the Horse Guards. Nothing could free competition reall . eionntrl,hat it was to a have been more dreadful than these acts, resulting from education of result of that developed eueeeae in e the ignorance of the population. To the same cause if the vinciple would b© to they must attribute the riots of Bristol, the disturbances alvstenr of trade, they would have se of Nottingham, and all the ruthlessness of Capt. Goring, principle as they had seen it consequence of and the horrors of the incendiary fires of the agricui- the removal of the restrictions on trade.—(Rear, h ear. ) turd districts , and all these dreadful and degrading acts The principle of competition in m a t ters of education which mere than anything else tended to reduce man to co,uld not, however, have been the one adopted to the the level of the animal. Could it be possible that such end, viz., general education among the people. It was a ,things as th4e could have taken place in a community principle which had been tried with perfect liberty in the where the laboure r had had his mind improved by edu- richest country un d er h eaven , an d i n a country the cation—had been taught to find pleasure in the exercise people of which are considered as intelligent persons, of Isis intellect—had been taught to reverence his maker ltd cannot be fairly accused of being illiberal. If, then there ever was a country in which the principle of non interference could have worked with effect, and shown its power, it would have been in this country. The state of things would have been this—the schools of the country would have been models, perfect institutions, to be found in every part of the country ; every school would have been an example, it would have contained an excellent little library and mechanical apparatus, the very fact of such a thing as grown-up persons, who were unable to read or to write their name, would have been unheard of. And with respect to the schoolmasters, they would have been men as expert in the business of imparting knowledge, and in the management of the minds of young people, as their cutlers were in making knives, and as their engineers were in repairing machinery ; they would have been amply remunerated and their lot in life would have been respectable, and they would have been treated with all that respect which the instructors of the morals and intelligence of the people should ',al ways receive. Did they show that they possessed any of those things at the present time ? Look at all those authoritative sources of information, the charges of j ridges, the resolutions of grand juries, and the reports of public departments which have anything to do with ascertaining the state of education among the people. Their effect is the same as those facts already stated by my Noble Friend. Take the report of the register of the prisons. In Hertford Gaol and House of Correction there were 700 prisoners, one-half of those were unable to read or to write. In Maidstone gaol there were 3,000 prisoners, 1,300 of whom were unable to read or to write, and not more than 50 able to read or to write well. In Cold bath-fields there were 8,000 prisoners, but only seven who could read or write well. Look again at the register of marriages, of 130,000 couples married in the year 1844, more than 40,000 bridegrooms and 60,000 brides could not sign their names, but put their marks to the register.—(Laughter.) Even the education that was rec-ived in some of the schools was of a most inferior description. Many of the schodts are mere dens—a heap of fuel on one side, half a testament, a dog's-eared spelling-book, a broken slate, and a pen. And then the master—(Laughter)—and then the master —where was the high principle, the high spirited, the heroic devotedness on his part to the improvement of the pupils committed to his care, many of the men were merely discarded serving men, ruined tradesmen, many of them who could not work a rule of three sum, who did not know whether the earth were a cube or a sphere, whether Jesusalem was in Asia or America. Those were the men who could do nothing else, that were ap peinted to train the hearts of the rising generation— (Hear, hear)—and upon whom the "'hole virtue, pros perity, and freedom of the country depended.—(Cheers.) If the House thought he was taking too harsh a view of the present state of education he would appeal to an authority which he thought no person could deny—he would refer to the report of the congregational union representing the non-conformists of England. Last year, not quite a year ago, upon the 16th of May, 1846, the report of the committee of the congregational union for general education was presented to the union. It was moved " that the report now read be adopted, and printed and circulated under the direction of the board." That motion was made by Edward Baines, jun., of Leeds. What he would now read would he thought be considered as an opinion not to be disputed. "If it were necessary to expose facts to such an assembly as this, with respect to the interest of so large a portion of the population of our towns and rural districts, we could refer them to the exhibitions in the various localities by the published documents of the Registrar-General's reports. Those reports would furnish us with enough to make us modest in speaking of what has been done for the humbler classes, and make us ashamed of England, that the sons of the soil of England should have been so long neglected, and should present to enlightened foreigners travelling from other shores such a sad spec tacle of neglected mental degradation." He, like Mr. Baines, most cordially adopted that report. It was in perfect agreement with all the information he had been able to obtain upon the subject. He believed that the state of education among the common people of this country " ought to make us ashamed at the sad spectacle presented to the enlightened foreigners who visited our shores."—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) And now, under what system had this state of things come to pass ? Under a system of non-interference—of free competition—a system which they were told was just as powerful a stimulus in education as in mat ters of trade or commerce. How long had it been in this state? This morning he received a paper said to contain " reasons for opposing the educational plan," and one of the reasons was if you wait with patience, private enterprise will do it all. They had been waiting with patience ever since the time of the Heptarchy. How long were they still to wait? Till the year 2847 or 3847? Was there ever an experiment tried during such a length of time with so little effect, and yet these men called upon them to go on waiting still longer. The experiment had been tried under the most favour able circumstances. They were asked to wait a short time, and all would be right. He defied them, however, to point out a single cose in which free competition had been productive of beneficial results. And as the south of Britain formed an argument, so did also the northern part form'another. Now here were two nations of the same origin, of the same blood, speaking, with a slight diversity, the same language, separated, at the same time from the see of Rome in the same generation, and by the same great reformatory movement, united under one sovereign, going through the same sours: s of politi cal revolutions, united together through a long series of ages, and yet there now existed great differences be tween them. England had been for many ages one of the richest, most prosperous and civilised nations in the world ; in all these matters Scotland had been almost at the bottom'of nations calling themselves civilised. They (the House) knew that one hundred and fifty or two hundred years ago Scotland and Scotchmen were words treated with contempt ; they were considered as words belonging to a people very far beneath other nations in civilisation ; and even the greatest of Scottish patriots seemed all but to despair of ever raising the mental and moral condition of the lower classes of that country. See the change that has been effected. In spite of the in clemency of the air, or the sterility of its soil, the Scotch man has no reason to envy any other part of the world. Wherever he went, and there were few places he did not go to—(Laughter)—the same undeviating career of success was sure to await him. If he enlisted he soon became a non-commissioned officer, and no matter what pursuit he applied himself to, the resul;, was successful. About one hundred years ago it was customary in Eng land to speak of them as it was now of the Esquimaux, but the language of contempt was at an end, that of esteem took its place. The system of education establshed in Scotland was one open to many objections not necessary now to particularize, but imperfect as it was, Scotchmen rose to such a degree as they never could have done had education been left to free competition. Well, then, let them see how the argument stood. Let them observe what different results followed in the two countries. As to one—the richer of the two—free competition was al lowed to exercise its influence under the most favour able circumstances, and the consequences, were pointed out by the Congregational Union in a report describing the lamentable ignorance which existed in this country, and of which all foreigners who visited them were ashamed. In the other country, which was little fa voured by nature—one with a very imperfect state of education—the consequence was such an improvement in civilisation, such security of life and property, and such general prosperity, as had been hardly ever seen in the world before. Now, if these results had happened in any experiment in surgery or che mistry, would it not be conclusive as to the excellence of the course adopted.—(Hear, hear.) The objections which had been raised to this question were vanishing on every side. If the Government had nothing to do with the education of the people, then all the grants which had been made were but a waste of money ; but if they had, then they should not be prepared to forego the advantages of the system for the sake of one hun dred, or even two hundred thousand pounds. Even in an economical view he considered that it had its recom mendations, for when they took into consideration the money which would be saved in prisons and punishment of crime, and for the purpose of preserving order and property, he believed its advantages could not fail to be appreciated on this score alone. The money, too, could be expended under the superintendence of the managers of the school in each locality ; so that the charge of cor ruption and political jobbing could not be borne out. For, in the first place, Government did not appoint the teachers ; in the second place, they did not dismiss them ; in the third place, the managers of the schools were perfectly independent of the Government ; and, in the fourth place, the salary to the teacher was entirely contingent on the approval of the managers, and there was no stun voted in the estimates, over which such surveillance was exercised. The result would be that the voluntary system would be stimulated, because before paying 2,000,0001., 4,000,000/. would have to be paid by those locally interested in the schools. He thought, therefore, he had met that part of the objections with regard to the proposed scheme in creasing the influence of the Crown. Then it was stated that it was unconstitutional, and that Parliament in adopting it would exceed its functions. He really wished that those who urged this doctrine had shown in what way the plan was unconstitutional. Tell him what principle of the constitution would be violated. Fifteen or thirty times the Hon. Gentleman the Member foil, Finsbury, in the course of the speech, urged that the Committee of the Privy Council was a self-elected body—a self-constituted body ; an d inquired if the House would place so much irresponsibility in the hands of such a body ? Why it was not more a self-elected body than the Board of the Treasury—it was appointed by her Majesty, under the advice of her responsible Minister. He confessed that he was quite at a loss to understand how he could say that it was a self-elected office any more than that of the Secretary of State. Then what constitutional principle was violated? He said they ought to have an Act of Parliament. True, they required an Ac'.; of Parliament to give the Crown any power which it did not possess; but if the Crown possessed the power dealing with this matter, and the House should vote the money sought, surely the Crown would not act unconstitutionally in expending it for the purpose for which it was voted. Surely these were fair principles—surely they were con stitutional. Were they illegal on the part of those who thought proper to expend their money upon them ? Might he not give a stipend, out of his own private resources, to a seise.; almaster—a salary to a stipendiary monitor, or to a pupil-teacher ? Surely he might do so without seeking an Act of Parliament to legalise such a proceeding. The cases were strictly analagous—(Hear.) Why, the Hon. Gentleman seemed to tall: as if nothing of the kind had ever occurred before in thi , l country ; for instance, grants of money had been voted for the mili ilam w mili tary e a n s t es to established h schools, and for the Military Asylum, f o r g ranting aid to whi c h an A ct h a d b een passe d . When he was Secretary at War, he found no difficul t y i n i n d uc i ng grant e d for sumor the o e f moneypurpos eof for a n educating institution which the daughters of soldiers. That was the usual, the constitu tional way of givin g the Crown money for legal pur poses. If the Cro err) , out, wn as k ed for wha t it bad no powers to I they must have " ve a separate Act: this he thought was the proper interpretation of a constitutional grant. Then, again, the Ministers were responsible for the proper distribution of the money. As between Church men and Protestant Dissenters, it was impossible for him to conceive a system of stricter impartiality, as Baptists, Dissenters, Free Churchmen, Presbyterians, and Members of the Church of Scotland, would equally participate in the advantages which it would bestow; the advantages were all in common, and a certificate of a dissenting clergyman or of a parochial minister would be of equal importance and have equal weight, and the boys of the dissenting school were just as likely to be come stipendiary monitors as those brought up in the Established Church, or to be Queen's scholars. The same observations would apply with equal truth to the schoolmasters, where four churches of diffe rent sects existed in a neighbourhood, no one would possess a greater advantage than the other. Then the Dissenters would not be worse off than they were now. —(Hear, hear.) They would increase the uses of na tional schoolmasters, and that could do no injury to the Dissenters ; and he hoped that the Non-conformists who had gone away from them in a moment of irritation, would not show themselves non-conformist or unchris tian.—(Hear, hear.) The Churchman was as deeply interested in the education of the people as the Baptists, Presbyterians, or Dissenters. He thought it was for the great interest of all, that in some form the great body of the common people should be educated.—(Hear, hear.) Then with respect to the expense. No man who con tributed to the education of the people could say that he would not gain any advantage —(Hear, hear)—because he utterly denied that the Dissenters gained nothing by a man being made a good man, and a good Christian; it was just as much a matter of interest to him as it was that the defence of the coast should be preserved and kept up in an efficient manner. —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had asked them for a Committee to in quire into the effects which this educational system would have upon the civil rights of the people. In what way it was to effect their civil rights, he did not think it necessary to inform us. He ought to recollect that in a densely populated country in which the system of unions was carried out, civil liberty could hardly be more than a name. He was a very short sighted friend of the people, who, in making great efforts to give them additional franchises, made no effort, but rather offered resistance to an extended system of educa tion. From the clamour, then, which has been raised, (continued the Hon. Gentleman) I appeal with confi dence to the country, to whom, in no long time, we must render an account of our stewardship. I appeal to a future age, which, when enjoying the blessing of a sound and efficient system of education, will look back with astonishment to the resistance which our present efforts meet, and with still more astonishment that such resistance was offered in the name of civil and religious freedom. (The Hon. Gentleman resumed his seat amid loud cheers.) Mr. ROEBUCK heartily agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that it was the duty of the Government to educate the people. But he would carry the argument further, and say that it was also the duty of the Govern ment not to throw any obstacle in the way of carrying out that duty. This was the charge which he made against the Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman had slided in his false conclusions on indisputable pre mises. He dissented with the Honourable Baronet who eat near him (Sir R. Inglis), in his argument, which went to prove that it ought to be the business of the Government to keep the people in igno rance. The Noble Lord found the people heated with religious differences, and he sided with the majority. He quarrelled with the Government because they had not found, as it was their duty to do, a system—a national system. The Government found it necessary to do something. A general election was at head. The Noble Lord tells the Catholics to remain quiet—that a new mi nute can be made—and that if they only held their peace everything should be right with them. He would wish to know if this was the sort of proceed ing for the Government to adopt; did they doubt that this was an attempt on the part of the Government to conciliate interests which were wholly irreconcileable? So long as the Government of this country chose to mix up religion with national education, so long would all attempts fail to raise the people from that grovelling ig norance in which the Right Honourable Gentleman had described them to be—so long would all their endeavours fail to remove the evil. Let the question be tried by the issue. They might say that they would have schools. In different religions, suppose they had a community in a small village, they could not have all separate schools. They could only have one school, and ,what would they do with those who did not agree with one favoured sect in religion?—said the Noble Lord, in such a school we shall teeeh a religion after the fashion of the Church of England, within schools—and what was to be done with the Catholic, the Wesleyan, and the Baptist ; should they be excluded from these national schools? It was said that a secular education was not complete without religion. What was the Church of England about—what was it for—not to inculcate her doctrines upon the members of the Church. MI those who belonged to the Church of England ought to receive religious instruction according to the forms of that Church. The Noble Lord only performed one half of his duty to the population, if he excluded half of them from the benefits of this measure. He wished, however, to know how the money was to be applied. If be voted away any sum for the army or navy, he knew it was to be eppli' I for a specific pur pose, but in this instance the Government came down and asked for so many hundreds of thousands to carry out a minute of Council, which they might alter at pleasure. It would be said that the Administration were men with liberty on their lip-: but who, when the time came to try them, were found far from equal to the exigency. Ile thought, also, that the time would come when the country would have to look to other parties to guide them, and when to the hand which struck down the corn-laws, they would have to look for the esta blishment of a real liberal system of education. He had made this explanation in order to guard the vote which he intended to give. He maintained that the principle of the Government was net the one laid down by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edin burgh. He (Mr. Roebuck) said it was the duty of the Government to educate the people, but he denied that it could be done by the narrow and sectarian mode of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. EWART, who rose with Mr. Hindley, then moved the adjournment of the debate, which was agreed to. SERVICE OF HEIRS AND CROWN CHARTERS BILLS. The Service of Heirs and the Crown Charters (Scot land) Bills were read a second time. PARLIAMENTARY ELECTORS BILL. The Parliamentary Electors Bill was read a second time. QUAKERS AND JEWS MARRIAGES BILL. The Quakers and Jews Marriages Bill was read a second time. The other orders were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at halt-past twelve. RAILWAY COMMITTEES (YESTERDAY.) -._ ".lOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP I. _ . The Select Committee appointed to consider the merits of the Bills comprised in this group re-assembled in Room 30, at the usual hour this morning; Mr. W. 0. Stanley in the chair. THE BRIGHTON MID RENT SCHEME. The Right Hon. J. C. Herries gave general evidence in fa venr of the Brighton line. He understood the Brighton Company were prepared to bind themselves—at least he had oeen told so at one of their meeting;, —to charge 2d. for first, lihd. for second, and ld. for third-class passengers, and, on that account, more than aoy other, he was disposed to sup port the line. Besides, neither he nor his neighbours had confidence in the sincerity of the South-Eastern in proposing a Mid Kent line. He was decidedly an advocate for compe• tition. In cross-examination he admitted that he thought the saving of the Croydon toll to the South-Eastern Company was a sufficient consideration to induce them to make their proposed line. He was not aware that at one of the Kent meetings, Mr. Wilkinson, the Deputy Chairman of the Lon don and South Coast Company, pledged his company, in con sideration of the Mid Kent line being conceded to them, to charge IlAd. for first, Id. for second, and 1 / 2 d. for third-class passengers, which pledge was altsrwards repudiated by the South Coast Company. A number of witnesses from Sevenoaks, Tunbridge, and Maidstone, were examined, but their testimony all bore upon the same point, namely, that they preferred the Brighton line to the South-Eastern. The Committee adjourned at the usual hour till twelve o'clock to-morrow (this day). GROUP VI. SOUTH-WESTERN SCHEMES—SAXISEURY AND YEOVIL, AND EXETER, IrEOVII. AND DORCHESTER. The Committee met this morning at twelve, Mr. Deedes, in the chair. Mr. Squarrey, a farmer residing near Salisbury, was called to give evidence in favour of the South-Western extension of the line from Salisbury to the West of England. The rail way would, if constructed, afford him considerable advan ta:;es in sending his stock to the metropolis and other parts of England, and also effect a saving of at least sixpence per head on the present mode of conveyance. He believed that a break of gauge at Salisbury would mar the beneficial effect of railway communication, by causing considerable injury to the stock in the process of removing crom one truck to the other. The railway would, if constructed, afford also great advantages for the conveyance of lime, with which the dis trict abounded, and also coals, manure, and other articles. Mr. James Crew, grazier, from the neighbourhood of Salisbury, gave evidence favourable to the line. If the line were constructed it would effect a saving to him of at least 30s. per head on the expense of sending his cattle to London. The terminus of the South-Western Railway, when com pleted at London-bridge would also afford greater facilities for removing cattle from the railway to Smithfield. Great quantities of dead meat would also be sent to London by this railway, which it was essential should be constructed on an unbroken gauge. Mr. T Mathews also deposed to the advantages which this line would afford in the conveyance of live stock, killed meat, and other agricultural produce. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP XVI. The Committee to whom the tbllowing Bill's have been re ferred met this morning in No. 23 Committee-room, at half past twelve o'clock ; Mr. Kemble in the chair : London and North-Western (St. Alban's, Luton, and Dun stable). _ Great Northern Railway (Hertford, Hatfield, and St. Alban's). Eastern Counties Railway (EHertford to Hitchin, tce ) Enfield and Edmonton Railway Extension. The CHAIRMAN said he entirely concurred in the justice of the rule which had been laid down by many of the other Committees, that no counsel who was absent at the exami nation in chief of a witness should be allowed to cross examine him, except under specisl circumstances, and by the express permission of the Committee, because enormcus expense would be thereby obviated; but they did not think it necessary, in the present instance, to adopt that rule; yet, at the same time, he begged distinctly to state that the Committee had reserved to itself the right of acting upon the rule at any time they might think fit. The. appearances for the various parties having been entered, The CIi.kIRMAN intimated that they were ready to hear Mr. Sergeant Wrangham open the case of the Great Northern (Hertford, Hatfield, and St. Alban's). Mr. Sergeant WRANGIUM said he was prepared to pro ceed at once; but as the Railway Commissioners had not yet reported on the capital of the Eastern Counties' branch, and as in some respects it might be looked upon as a com peting project, he suggested to the Committee whether it would not be advisable to postpone the consideration of the two lines until they could both come before the Committee in a similar position, so far as the reports of the Railway Com missioners were concerned. After some discussion, The CHAIRMAN intimated that he would first take the GIMAT NORTHERN BRANCH, and, at the completion of the case, they would take the Eastern Counties project. Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM then proceeded to open the case. He said, at present the county of Hertford was traversed by three lines of railway—towards the west by the North-Western, the east by the Eastern Counties, and directly through the centre by the main line of the Great Northern Railway, and that one of the great objects of the branches was the supply of that great desideratum to the county—namely, a connexion between these three lines. Although the county was, as he had said, traversed by these three lines, each line only accommodated the districts in its immediate vicinity, and then only northward and south ward, not giving any lateral communication, which was much needed. For instance, the two great towns of the county, Hertford and St. Alban's—and at the first the sessions and assizes were held, and the county business trans acted—were entirely cut off from each other, so far as rapid and cheap railway communiption was, concerned, and they were but fourteen miles froth' each other. To get from Hertford to St. Alban'ar by railway, a person must go round by London, and strike off at Watford, on the North- Western line, and travel to his destination by the Luton branch. The connexion, therefore, of the three lines, by stretching across the county in a lateral direction, was suffi cient, if that were the only advantage of the branches, to ensure the passing of the Bill. By them every town or dis trict possessing 2,000 inhabitants would have railway com munication. Barley would be transmitted from the districts in the west to the malting districts in the east—Ware, for instance—and at one quarter of the present rate by cart, which was Bd. per ton per mile. By the Luton line, a communication would be given with the manufacturing districts, with which the Birmingham line was connected, and coals would be brought to the district, by the aid of the Direct Northern, at 16s per ton, instead of 305., as at present. The Hertford and Hitchin branch, proposed by the Eastern Counties, omitted all the important towns in the county. True, it would be four miles and a half shorter between Hitchin and Hertford than by the Great Northern and the Hertford branch; but what would that avail, when it would afford little or none of the local communication sought by the county, and would cost 270,0001., whilst their line, which would offer accommoda tion to one-fourth of the population, would cost only 300,0001.? the length of their line being fifteen miles and a half, and the Eastern, Counties fourteen miles. His Learned Friend might say . that the Eastern Counties could bring coals from Huntingdonshire to Ware at half the price they (the Great Northern) could, on account of the difference of the distance to which he bad referred; but a clause was inserted in the Direct Northern Bill compelling them to charge for the transit of goods only by the geogra phical distance. The line would commence at Hertford in connexion with the Eastern Counties line, and run to Hat field, where it would join the Great Northern; it would then run on to St. Alban's, where it would join the proposed Luton and St. Alban's line. After r ef err i ng t o th e opposition which the Great Northern had experienced at the hands of the Eastern Counties and the Midland Company, he con cluded by confidently trusting that the Committee would pass the preamble of the Bill. The Marquis of Salisbury, examined by Mr. Sergeant KINGLAKE.—His Lordship said, his residence was at Ha.• field. He had lived in the county all his life, and had paid much attention to the railway wants of the county, and was well acquainted with the sentiments of the resident gentry on the subje.:t. All the general business of the county was transacted at Hertford. The liberty of St. Alban's amounted to about oac-third of the county, and the county business transacted there was considerable. The connexion of the three lines was indispensable. Hertfordshire was an agricultural county, and the great markets were St. Alban's and Watford for the west, and Hertford and Ware in the east. There was a great demand for malt for malting at Ware. Formerly there was some demand at Hitchin, but it was not great now. Straw plait ing was carried on at St. Alban's, which would find an outlet by the proposed line. He did not understand the use of the Hitchin line, but the other he considered would be most advantageous. There was a general feeling in the county in favour of the cross lines. Cross-examined—Had insisted upon a deviation of the London and York, which brought it nearer his house, in order that it might not be seen from it. Hertford was generally in favour of the line. The Hertford and St. Alban's markets were on the same day. Gave evidence last year in favour of a St. Alban's and Hatfield line, which was rejected. There were no public conveyances between the two points of the line. Cross-examined by Mr. RowE, for Baron Dims3ale—Was not aware of the way in which the line would interfere with this nobleman's property, but if it crossed immediately op posite the house, and ran for a distance of SCO yards on an embankment 13 feet high, and cut off communication with the gardens, it would be a great inconvenience, and would intercept the view. . . His Lordship was examined with respect to Mr.T. Smith's property at Hertford, but nothing material was elicited. Re.*xamined by Mr. KINGLAKE—Parties attended both Hertford and St. Alban's markets on the same day. Lord Verulam, the Lord-Lieutenant of the county, was next examined. He said his seat was in the vicinity of St. Alban's. If the line were not passed, the western part of the county would, as heretofore, be shut out from railway com munication with the county town. He generally concurred in the evidence of the Marquis of Salisbury. The other ma gistrates, he believed, generally concurred - in the necessity of the line. Mr. Durand, the clerk of the peace, said, the population of the county, including the liberty of St. Alban's; was 157,207 ; the population of St. Alban's 10,430, Hertford 6,668. Jurymen were summoned from St. Alban's to attend the assizes at Hertford. Magistrates residing on the western side of the county did not attend the assizes in the east, owing to the want of proper communication. Other evidence in favour of the line having been adduced, the Committee adjourned until to-morrow (this day). GROUP XXVIII. EASTERN COUNTIES EXTENSION. The Committee on this group, comprising Mr. T. D. Ac land (in the chair), the Earl of March, Sill& Lopez, the Hon. Ed. Harris, and Lord Edwin Hill, met this morning at twelve o'clock, when, after some discussion, as to the right of oppo sition held by Mr. Sergeant Clark, the Committee proceeded with the BOSTON DEVIATION BRANCH. Mr. PAGErr opened in its favour, by stating that this was a very short line, in or near the town of Boston. By the ori ginal Bill, the loop branch of the London and York line pas , ..ed through the town of Boston, but would be in a very inconvenient position, and the object of this Bill was to change the course of that loop in the town of Boston, so as to bring it into the centre of one of the principal streets. The first object, therefore, was to gain a more convenient station, and then to cross the river Witham at a more convenient distance for the traffic than that originally designed. The London vnd York Company, and the Eastern Counties Company, had both obtained their Acts, and had agreed to form the devia tion, but yet it was necessary that there should be an Act for the purpose. Mr. Cubitt, the engineer of the London and York line, stated that as the line was now planned, the passage would be above the grand sluice, where the whole of the traffic of the county passed. By he alteration sought by this Bill the crossing would be below, instead of above the sluice, where, in fact, there is already an iron bridge, and where the crossing would in no way interfere with the trade. ,fit was proposed by the present Bill to carry the railway traffic on one line, and at one rate. The new works would cost about 3001. more than those originally designed ;_and those works were to be executed at the expense of the London and York Company, and the change would be of great advantage to the country at large. Mr. Sergeant CLARK was about to oppose the Bill, when some discussion arose as to his right to appear, as the title of the Bill had been changed. It was stated by the agent that the Bill had been originally introduced under one title, but was now prosecuted by the agency of another, under the sanction of the Committee of Selection ; but as it was shown that the petition of the land. owners, for whom the Learned Sergeant appeared, had been put in against the Bill under its original title, he was allowed to proceed. On cross- examination, Mr. Cubitt stated that Mr. Locke was originally employed as the engineer of the London and York, but he had himself been engaged in the October of last year ; and although the line designed by Mr. Locke was a good line, that which he had himself was a better, although be would not say that there was a better through Boston, for there was but the property on both gides of the river pre vented its adoption. _ To the CHAIRMAN—Mr. Cubitt described the position of the loop branch of the London and York line, of which this formed a part _ _ To theCizAtamAx—Mr. Cubittreplied that the Act of the London and York Company was obtained last year, and that the line of the Ambergate and Boston line had been subse quently devised, and the station now designed was to be close to the 'station of that company, but in his opinion it would in no way interfere with the station, although the alteration would cross the Ambergate station rails. An objection was here taken that the application required theby t A h a e m lie l w ty a , y h s ut C e o ft ns e o r l m id e a e ti h on dis A cu ct sei h e a n d it n w o a t sbaelelnewneid that eto t the application had been made, but the answer had not b een Admiralty. To had been, in reality, i received. This, however, in no way invalidated the advisa bilityalleged of on To the CHAIRMAN'S suggestion, it was re pli e d t h at there was an understanding that, in the event of the East ern Coun ties and the London and York companies rece di ng, tither the ee line, part of f° ther no A or both companies might ge over the Ambergate lines. Mr. COCKBURN, Q.C., wished to know what the proposi tion really was, and after some further discussion, Mr. PAGET said that the company h a d no o bj ection to withdraw the branch, provided they had an outlet granted to them, and this they might obtain if either the East Lincolnshire or the Ambergate C ompany would enter into arrangements with them. The East Lincolnshire Company were at the present moment in possession of the ground in consequence of their Bill being passed previous to the Act of the Ambergate Company. After some further di scuss i on b etween the counsel engaged, it was arranged that the Bill should be adjourned till to n.orrow (this day). SLEAPORD Mr. Sergeant WaaNGIIAM opened on behalf of this branch, whi , lll is to form a continuation of the London and York branch, but the evidence isjto be taken to-morrow (this day). GROUP XLVI I. This Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, the llon. E. Yorke in the chair. WILSONTOWN, MORNINGSIDE, AND COLTNESS (BRANCHES TO 31ENHAR) BILL. This Bill was then proceeded with. It was petitioned against by Mr. Mann, the agent of Mr. Dixon ' an ironmaster in the district, for whom Mr. Serg eant Murphy appeared. Mr. Andrews was for the promoters. Mr. ANDREWS opened the case, stating that the line was a short mineral branch, to open up the Benhar mineral dis trict with Glasgow and Edinburgh. It was estimated to cost 24,705/., and would prove highly remunerative. The coal and limestone that would be opened up amounted to many millions of tons. Mr. M'Creath, mining engineer, gave evidence as to the mineral capabilities of the district, and the benefits which the line would insure. Mr. William M'Creath—He had examined the coal-fields and reported to the promoters of this project. Hs had bored in two places and found that the aggregate depth of the working seam was ten feet, and that there were some 16,000,000 of tons in all, that might be brought to the sur face. The whole country was rich in coal, and he had never heard that a doubt had existed as to the existence of coal in great quantities in this particular locality. Mr. Williamson, mineral surveyor, gave similar evidence. He had no doubt that the opening of these fields would, in a considerable degree, lower the price of fine coals in Edin burgh, and he believed that the furnaces —some seventy in all, would be principally supplied from Benhar. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock. GROUP LI. This Committee met for the first time to-day. Members present—Sir J. Y. Buller (Chairman), Lord J. Manners, Hon. G. H. Cavendish, Mr. Newdegate, and Cap tain Plumridge, to whom have been referred the following Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, and Glasgow, Paisley, Kil marnock, and Ayr (No. 1). Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, and Glasgow, Paisley, Kil marnock, and (Ayr (No. 2). North British (No. 2). Caledonian (Branches to Canobie, &c.) Caledonian (Lease of part of Glasgow, Dumfries, and Car lisle Railway). Ayrshire and Galloway. On inquiry it was found that the only Bill in a position to go forward was the AYRSHIRE AND GALLOWAY. It being the only one in which the Railway Commissioners had as yet reported. Thisbeinian unopposed Bill, it was agreed by the Com mittee to refer it to the Chairman of Committees, and the Members who brought in the Bill. After entering the appearances on behalf of the other Bills with the petitions against them, The Committee adjourned till Thursday next, when it is expected all the reports will be ready. GROUP V. The Committee met this morning at twelve. Present, Lord H. Vane (chairman), Hon. M. Sutton, Hon. Mr. Gore, Mr. Rice, and Sir E. Filmer. LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN (WIDEN, ING THEREOF, ETC). Counsel for this Bill, Mr. Austin, Mr. Hill, and Mr. Hope agents, Messrs. Dorrington and Co. Mr. Atm= in opening the merits of the Bill, said the object of it was to widen that part of the South-Western line extending from Nine Elms to the junction with the Richmond line at Falcon-bridge on the one hand, and to Hungerford-bridge on the other, so that four lines of rails might be laid down to meet the great increase of traffic which would press upon that portion of the line. The cost of that would be about 24,0001., and the only opposition likely to be made to it would arise from two pro prietors in the neighbourhood of Falcon-bridge. Mr. Locke, the engineer of the company, in the course of his examination proved the amount of estimate for the two miles of two additional lines of rail to be 24,8001., and the property about Falcon-bridge interfered with by the Bill to be of no other importance than to give the owners a claim for compensation. The York-road Station was estimated at 78,000/. land cost, and 40,000/. cost of erection. Mr. BoviLL, on the part of the proprietors at Falcon bridge, cross-examined the witness; but immediately after wards intimated that he would not persist in his opposition to the general Bill. The CHAIRMAN then declared the preamble proved; and the Committee proceeded to go through the clauses, which, with some amendments, were agreed to; and the Chairman announced that he would report the Bill to the House. PETITIONS ON PRIVATE BILLS. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDA). (Room 23, before Mr. Examiner MAY.) CORNWALL AND DEVON CENTRAL PLYMOUTH RAILWAY. This case, which is on the opposed list, again came under the consideration of the Examiner. After a number of formal proofs had been tendered the case was further ad journed. LAW INTELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 19. Their Lordships sat to-day in the new House for the first time to hear appeals. The Peers present were the Lord Chancellor, Lord Brougham, Lord Campbell, and the Bishop of Hereford. THE EDINBURGH AND GLASGOW RAILWAY COMPANY V. THE PR IVOST AND TOWN COUNCIL OF LINLITHGOW. Mr. BETHELL replied at considerable length today in this case, the arguments in which were part heard prior to the Easter recess. Their Lordships postponed giving judgment. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, April 19. (Sittings in Banco, before Lord Chief Justice DENMAN and a full Court). IN RE GARBETT. Mr. PARRY applied for a writ of habeas corpus, on behalf of Edward Crarbett, now a prisoner in Newgate, in order that he might be brought up and admitted to bail. The Learned Counsel stated, that the prisoner had been committed by his Lordship at the Kingston assizes for forgery; and he had to submit to their Lord ships, that from the mode and manner of his committal, never having been taken before a magistrate, he was placed in a position of peculiar difficulty as regarded his defence. Lord DENMAN—He placed himself in that position by his own statement. lie could not have been taken by surprise, for he went fully into the history of his having forged the bill, although he did not say that he forged it in so many words. Mr. PARRY—That was your Lordship's opinion, sitting as a magistrate; but a committal by a magistrate is not conclusive against the party committed. He was com mitted on suspicion, to take his trial for forgery, and the difficulty I wish to point out is this—a true bill has now been found against him for forgery, and that circum stance places him in a position of still greater difficulty than before. There may be witnesses on the back of he bill of whom the accused knows nothing whatever, and he is not entitled to a co py o f th e bill. There were no depositions taken, and he has, therefore, no warning of what the case against him may be, except the admis sion he made—namely, although there are no precedents to cite to your Lordships, yet, in this instance, justi ce will not be defeated by allowing the party to be bailed. Mr. Justice WIGIITMAN—IS it usual to bail a person against whom a true bill has been found, and upon such a charge as that of forgery ? Mr. PARRY—I admit that it is not usual ; but this is an extraordinary case, and the accused is in a position entirely different from that of ordinary prisoners against whom bills have been found, and who know the charge and the witnesses against them. But in this instance the prisoner is quite in the dark. lle swears that it is his desire to meet this trial, and to bring witnesses who can prove his innocence. Mr. Justice WIGHTMAN—How does any person know what witnesses are brought before the grand jury? Mr. PARRY—A prisoner may not know what wit nesses are brought before the grand jury; but by statute he is entitled to a copy of the depositions, at a very mo derate charge. Here there are no depositions, but the statement of the accused—an admission made under cir cumstances of surprise and agitation. Lord DENMAN—I have bound over the short-hand writer to appear as a witness. Does he swear that in his agitation he has stated that which is not true? Mr. PARRY—He says that in his agitation—for he was surprised at the mode of cross-examination of coun sel, and at the questions asked, that he does not know what he did state. Lord DENMAN—Does he state that he did not forge the acceptance ? Mr. PeratY—lle does ; for he says that he is not guilty of the crime with which he is charged. Mr. Justice PATTESON—I thought you said that he did not know the crime with which he was charged. . PARRY—He does not know except it is a charge of forging the bill. If it be the charge of forging a particular acceptance, then he does not know what witnesses are to bring horns that charge to him. Lord DENMAN—Why, it is trifling with justice to sup pose that a man who, by his own statement, admits that he forged the acceptance of a bill, should not be con signed to prison to take his trial fbr his crime. It ap pears to me to be absurd. Mr. PARRY—I would not continue to press anything against your Lordship's opinion, but you must forgive my reminding you that the prisoner never stated that he forged the bill. Lord DENMAN—No, not in set terms, but he said it in effect, as clearly as if the words were uttered. It is trilling with common sense to suppose that such an ap plication could be granted. The prisoner knows very well that it is only a wish to try the chance of the Courts allowing him to escape from the consequences of his crime. Here is a man, himself an attorney—in order to shield a defendant—stating in open Court, that he him self forged the acceptance. Ido not know what expla nation can be given when the trial comes on, but to attempt any now is merely trifling with justice, and the application cannot be granted. BAIL COURT, April 19. (Sittings in Beaco before Mr. Justice COLERIDGE.) The cases heard in this Court possessed no feature of public interest. COURT OF EXCHEQUER April 19. (Sittings in Banco.) SHARP V. CHAPLIN. This was an action tried at the last sittings before the Lord Chief Baron, when a verdict was entered for the plaintiff for 1001. Sir F. THESIGER moved for a rule to show cause why a nonsuit should not be entered, and also why a new trial should not be had, on the ground of the admission of improper evidence. The action was brought to re cover the sum of 1001., the amount of a deposit paid by plaintiff on 20 shares in a projected company, called the London and Westminster Water Company. The plaintiff had, in 1841, applied for shares in this company, and in accordance with that application an allotment of 20 shares had been made to him. The Learned Counsel contended that the receipt produced at the trial, the a d ver tisements, &c., ought not to have been produced in ev idence.—Rule granted. COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, April 19. (Sittings in Banco.) GOODLEY V. RICO. This was an action on a promissory note for .5/., which was tried at the last sittings before th e L ord Chief Jus tice, when the verdict went for the plaintiff. Mr. Sergeant TALFOUED moved for a rule to show cause why the verdict should not be set aside and en tered for defendant, on the ground that the debt was barred by the Statute of Limitations. The promis sory note was given on the 30th September, 1835, pay able six months after date. There were several pleas, but the only one on which stress was laid was the one pleading the Statute of Limitations. On the 7th June, 1843, a letter was written by defendant to plaintiff, and it was maintained that this was an evidence of the ac knowledgment of the debt, but he contended that this letter was not such an unconditional acknowledgment or promise to pay as invalidated the plea of the Statute of Limitations, --)bale granted. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. SOUTHWARK. John Male was placed at the bar, charged wish shooting on the river Thames, to the imminent danger of the inhabitants of Whitehall-gardens. An inspector of the Thames police said, that about eight o'clock the previous morning he saw the prison er in a boat near the gar d ens of the Duke of Buccleugh'S mansion, Whitehall. lie several times pointed a gu n towards the mansion, and fired it off, consequently be went towards his boat and took him into custody. Mr. COTTINGHAM inquired whether any person re ceived any injury from the shot ?—The inspector re-, plied that he believed not, but the firing of the gun I . s a great annoya nce t o t h e i nha bi tants of Whitehall' gardens. In answer to the charge the prisoner said he bol intention of injuri ng or annoy i ng any person. lie i f been told there were p l enty of rooks in the gardenst: the Duke of Buccleu g h, an d h e b orrowed hi s b r other! gun for the purpose of shooting a few of them. He h a d only fired twice when tha officer took him into custody Mr. COTTINGIIAM ordered him to pay a fine of 205., and in esfault of payment to be imprisoned one mon.. CLERKEN WELL. Charles Madell and Henry Edwards, two middle-ag ed men, of respectable appearance, were charged with : fraudulently obtaining from Mr. Samuel Elliott, fan c y dealer and dressing-case maker, of No. 68, Jewin-str ee4 Aldersgate-street, a number of dressing-cases and 411 " velope cases. it appeared from the evidence that, last Saturday , ti ll prisoner Madell called at the warehouse of the PNs e i : cutor, and representi ng hi mse lf to b e a fanc y e abint , maker, said he had a very good customer for him in, person of a gentle man name d Whiffen, who carrieu2., extensive business at Ch e l ms f or d , and was now Agri at his (Madell's) h ouse , i n Baltic-street, St. Luke's , 11% wished to make some large purchases in the of dressing and writing-cases and workboxes. d Mr. Whiffen did not wish to go out, he requested that samples might be sent to him of the articles, Or the prosecutor acco r di ng l y sent h i s son w i t h severa , having first caution e d hi m en no account to par t wi th l y , them without the mo ne y. Th e l a d accompanied Mad e who told him th a t Mr. Whiffen was a t the Sir JAI Falstaff public-hou se , i n B a l t i c - street, an d t h e y 1 1 0 better take the good s th ere to hi m. On entering t `;,.. parlour, " Mr. Whiff en " was th ere, an d turne d out to bo the prisoner Edwards, and upon the boy laying & lin the goods, they m a d e hi m d r i n k so much as almo st to stupify him, but he still retained sufficient recollecti on of his father's order as to bring back a portion of the goods. Mr. Wonter appeared on behalf of the prosecutt s ; and said that the re were numerous charges of a simpe r description to b e p re f erre d aga i nst the prisoners , o, therefore, requested, that they might be remanded. The prisoners were accordingly remanded. 1 MARKET NE WS.-(YESTERDA - ' CORN-EXCILA.NGE. to The arrivals of all ki n d s o f G ra i n of home produce uP ns our market last w e ek, espec i a ll y those of Barley, Oats, 131,0%; and Peas, were on a very li m i ted scale ; while those .-ixe Ireland and Scotland were unusua ll y small. Howe ver, imports of foreign B ar l ey an d O ats were on an ex tolsiv e rae scale; those of a ll ot h er art i c l es b eing trifling in the exgeh,t. even allowing for an importation of 4,450 quarters of ‘' — e e The reeeipts of E ng li s h W heat fresh up from Kent Tye moderate. Those from Essex, Cambridge, &c., 5a1e11%.,, m 0 stands being sc ant il y supplied with samples, arising fib d.. good clearance b e i ng e ff ected on Friday last, and the AtL e- o . e; ante of buyers, severa l of whom were from France, lar ge; the English Wh ea t trade was very brisk, at an iton,an ment in the qu o t a ti ons obtained on Monday last, o' ;r ss. to 6s. per qua r t er , an d at which the whole of the 8 for pies were disposed o f. Th e tradsactions in English Whee" , e r, shipment to France, consisted of nearly 2,000 quarter* bt at least, a moiety of the supply of that article brellO g . o forward. The whole of the reported arrivals of fe rel ,re W heat were taken afloat last week for Havre ; howeve r ' en . had a very limited quantity on offer to-day. For home e a t sumption a moderate business was doing, while for elP ier to France about 3,000 quarters were disposed of, at an rge r provement in value of fully 3s. per quarter. Ala bad business would, doubtless, have been concluded , rot , the supplies been on a more liberal scale. " e x, withstanding the large arrival of foreign Barley last W ee s the actual supply on sale this morning was by no , Di r t of good. All kinds, owing to the dealers being very_sl e y'S stock, moved off briskly, at ls. to 2s. above last Mon tt o prices. With Malt we were rat h er scant i ly suppl i e d, Yee no demand was by no 'means active. In prices we 11 , s/ e x tol alteration to notice. Although upwards of 30,000 tlu ct ife, of Oats came in from abroad last week, the trade was eer• and the currencies improved from ls. to 2s. per q uart , a te* The few parcels of English brought forward sold at big," r d ior The show of Beans being trifling, there was a declu e ,,, e i. provement in the demand, at is per quarter more It e s: we re There was only a moderate inquiry for Peas; yet they „. is mostly held at higher rates. I n di an C orn, f or arr ival, / 1 ":,,d to 2s per quarter higher. Th e Fl our trade was firm, '- some of the millers would not sell except at higherrates• CURRENCY PER IMPERIAL MEASURE lag tO --5 Wheat—Essex & Kent, M a l t —C heva li er • • • • • • • - Red, New •• • • 793 to BGs Oats—Yorkshire and Ditto,'White, New 81s 89s Lincolnsh., -ea • tie see Norfolk and Lin- Potato .••• • • • • •,* w coin, Red..... 753 &Os Youghal and Corar. s , 2811 Ditto, White.... • • 80s 86s Black. • • • • •: ;8 - a 31 5 Irish, Red.. .... • • —s —5 Cork, White .•• •• T3a 369 Ditto, White •. . . ••—s —s r d 308 33i . _ Scotch, Feed. •• • . 1 1 . 2 s 455 Rye—Old •••••• .•• • —5 s Beans—Tick .•••• • • •• 508 i 25 New ...... ... 485 54s Pigeons .... •• •• • . sos 545 Barley—Grinding... • . 42s 45s Pease—Grey. .•.• • • • i , 545 Malting .••• • • • 495 54s Maple. ——••• • " •• illi Chevalier •• • • • —54 s White * . 510 595 Malt—Suffolk and Nor- Boilers • • 475 ao folk •••••• • • • • • • 738 75s Flour—Town -made... 605 ~,,, Brown .••••• • • • • . 67s 69s Suffolk •... . . . . 488 •'„'', Kingston and Ware 758 78s Stocktn & Norlblk 49 2 ." sIVEITZIPIZI.D. Since Monday last the following imports of live stock bale taken place into London : From whence. Oxen. Cows. Sheep. Calves. Rotterdam Hamburgh Harlingen Nieudiep ..... Flushing Total At the outports the arrivals have been moderately about 400 Oxen and Cows, 200 She e p, an d 40 C a lves, r''' the whole of which have com e t o h an d i n exce ll en t coneutii There were on sale to-day only 120 O xen an d CeosY, Sheep, and 16 Calves from ab roa d, which moved off e'e at barely late rates. Th e arrivals of Beasts from our f grazing districts, fresh up this morn i ng , were , the al o f year considered, very large, viz., nearly 4,000 head , tot most excellent quality ; i n d ee d, we may sta t e that et three-fourths of the supply were above the middle quali"J a utrf Notwithstanding the attendan ce o f b o th town and c°- .., e ry buyers was numerous, the Beef trade was in a o ler sluggish state, and the f ew i n f er i or an imals on value the of at an abatement of 2d per 81b s; but e 1 ; 0 ,1. of the primest Scots, Devons, Herefords, and B i en - e horns was mostly supported. The v ery big „ a r t for the former kind did not exceed 4s 2d per 9 1 he , a ar o ik, which a clearance was not effected. From 8 Scots, Essex, and Cambridgeshire we received about 1,200 tern homebreds, and shorthorns; from the midland and western L froth districts, 900 Herefords, runts, Devons, shorthorns, ea- ; other parts of England, iioo of various kinds; and from W land, 220 horned and polled Scots. With Sheep we fairly supplied, while the quality of all kinds was excellen t.. Oa the whole, the Beef trade was steady, but by no trietal s those paid last week. At the brisk, at prices about equal to Norfolk, conclusion of business a fair clearance had been effected- The primest old Downs, in the wool, sold at 5s 4d, those out of the wool, 4s 8d per Blbs. From the Isle of Wight the ar rival of Lambs was very small, but from other quarters a full average number of that description of stock came to hand. The Lamb trade was tolerably firm at late rates. Although the supply of Calves was small, the Veal trade ruled heavy' at Friday's depressed rates. The Pork trade was heavy, yet prices were mostly supported. SUPPLY AT MARKET. iteasts. I Sheep. I Calves. 3,843 21,500 103 NEUTGATE AND LEADENR.,S.LIG. During the past week the arrivals of Scotch and country' killed Meat up t o th ese markets have consisted of about carcasses of Beef, 400 ditto of Mutton, 200 ditto of Lan"' 180 ditto of Veal, and 450 ditto of Pork. The supplies c,' ll offer slaught ere d i n the metropolis have been seasona bly good, yet th e genera l demand has been tolerably steady,, it, but little vari a ti on i n pr i ces. About 60 carcasses of Foreign Beef, 80 ditt'i of Mutton, and 30 ditto of Veal, have er peared on sale. I Pigs. 512 At per stone by the Carcase. s. d. to s. d. Beef, inferior ..2 10 3 0 Mutton, infer ior a. to 1143 1( middling • - primelarge .. 3 4 16 - Prim e • 4 4 4 4 6 - 'mane small . • 3 6 3 Port, large •••• • • • • 3 . 4 .40 5 0 Lamb, OA Ad to 6524 BOROUGH AND SPITALFIELDS. The supply of potatoes being unusually small, the a mount of business passing is trifling, at higher rates. BOROUGH HOP PLAIitHET. Selected parcels of hops in pockets are in steady request At fully last week's quotations. In all other kinds, next to ahteavceonbtereanc t im ra p a O r r k t e ed t_ e n in o e t e wi t tu b this is doing, with a full average supply on offer, nothing WOOL. day I balesn ot the e w p o r o i v i standing the supplies on offer are by no means extensive- 4 o g o h o t very limited business is doing, yet we have no alteration to About B een n 1 , i notice in the quotations. TALLOW. Although the stocks of Tallow continue small, the deman d both in the spot an d f or forward delivery, is heavy, at the late decline in the quotations. Town Tallow is in good supply and somewhat lower. On the 6th inst., at Tenb BIRTZB. Esq., of a daughter. On the 13th inst., at H k Lo dd. g el " of a itni• ac ney, Mr s. C. Y, the lady of Charles Oldbani• On the 13th inst., at Northampton -terrace, Islington, Mrs. Henry R. Alport, of a son. On the 14th inst., Mrs. Clifford Craufurd, Camberwell grove, of a son. On the 14th inst., at Carshalton, Surrey, the wife of Mr. W.. Simms, of a son. On the 15th inst., at Ashford Cottage, Kentish-town, the lady of R. Graham Farmer, Esq., of a son. On the 15th i nst., at Lloyd-square, the wife of Mr. Stan' bourne, of a son, still- horn. croOftn, o th f e a l d 6 a t o h gh in t s e t ri , at Cadogan-place, Mrs. Samisel Bea' MARRIED. On the 15th inst. at Southwick, Hants, Major C hat les Dunsmure, 42d Royal highlanders, to Laura, daug hter of T. Thistlethwayte, Esq., of Southwick-park. On the 15th inst., at Chatham Church, Lieutenant .R.l lll Warburto n , of the 60th Royal Rifles, to Martha , eld • egt daughter of Lieutenant Mitchell, of the same corps. DIED. On the 6th inst., at Mannheim, Germany, the Rev. Chrorler Martin, formerly of Penzance, in the county of Rexford, aged 43. On the Bth inst., Mr. Richard Barlow, timbar-merchan;r of Birmingham. On the 9th inst., ip Cannon-place, Miss J. Wimberley... On the 15th inst., at Oxton, Nottinghamshire, Ann, rebel' of the late William Sherbrooke, Esq., aged 84. On the 15th inst., Mary Jane, the only daughter of C4P tain Lyde, of Sid-villa, Old Brompton, aged 28. 11 On the 16th inst., Mr. John Bailey, of Mason's. ha" Mason's-alley, Basinghall.street, aged 47. - - - - London: Printed and Published by /SURD° YOUNG, 01 NO 11 % Strand, Printer, at The Sun Of lee, N 0.112, Strand, in the Ps 5e11, 16 0 of the Savoy, iu the County of Mick! s, Tuesday, As• I