The Sun. — London, England, 1857-08-04 00:00:00

rHE SUN, .LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, AUGUST 4, 1 7 authorities had expressed a very strong opinion. They infinitely preferred that the penalties should be absolute and that no excuses whatever should ad.eitted on the part of the contractors. With thA view they were pre pared to give a larger sum for the service, and they paid the extra, amount in the way of insurance, for this system was found to act as a premium, and a very high one too, upon regularity. In the present case the contractors were bound to pay a penalty of 1001. for every day's delay in finding a vessel fit to go to sea after the time appointed. They were, moreover, bound to pay a penalty of 50/. if the mail was delayed 24 hours after the maximum number allowed for each voyage ; 100/. for the next 24 hours ; 1507. for the thiiel, and so on until the whole allowance for that particular voyage was swallowed up. Now, he (the noble duke) might remark that the Peninsular and Oriental Company had in point of fact never sent in a proper tender at all ; beeause, although these penalties were distinctly stated in the conditions, the Peninsular Company declined to subject the members to any penalties except for avoida ble delays. Tho noble earl had said that the tender of the Peninsular was lower than that of the Australian Company ; but in point of fact the Peninsular only agreed to carry the mail from Suez, whereas the other company included in their tender the carriage of the mail from England. The papers relating to this contract had been nearly twelve months before the house, and the noble earl had never till now said a word on the sub ject, the noble earl must, therefore, have committed what was a very serious fault in a seaman, he must have kept a bad look-out. (A laugh.) It was hardly fair to say that the company had broken down. No doubt the Oneida had broken down, but the rest of the con tract had been performed with considerable success. Besides, let their lordships look at the consequences to the company of the Oneida's misfortune. They had forfeited the whole payment due to them for the voyage, namely, 7,7841. The second voyage occupied 1,246 hours, which was 24 hours more than the stipu lated time. The delay not amounting to an entire day there was no penalty. The third voyage was performed in 1,257 hours, which was actually 39 hours under the time, and the company received a premium of 30/. The fourth and last voyage took 1,413 hours, which was 117 hours in excess, and a fine of 5001. bad been levied upon the company in consequence. Now if the govern. went had accepted the tender of the Peninsular Com pany, they would not have been able to claim these penalties ; for it was perfectly possible that the co.npany might have represented the break-down of the Oneida as an unavoidable disaster. At all event i there might have been continual disputes between the company and the government. The noble earl truly said that the amount paid for the conveyance of these mails was very con siderable ; but it should be borne in mind that half of it was paid by the colony. Ne doubt, if the company was in the state in which the noble earl described it to be, the effect of the penalties would rapidly bring the con tract to an end. The contract, however, bad been only in operation for little more than nine months, and at the present time the noble earl was hardly jus ified in speaking of it in the manner in which it had been cha racterised by him. (Hear.) IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT• did not want to conceal their votes but to vote openly. It was very hard that these men should have no share whatever in the elective franchise. In this great town and most of the large towns throughout the country they were for the most part lodgers—scarcely one of them occupying a 101. house. If, without too much extending the franchise, any means could be taken to give these men the vote it would on every ground, not merely on the ground of justice to them, but for the benefit of the system, be a consummation most devoutly to be wished. Some persons suggeeted a 101. franchise with one year's, THIRD READINGS. l and a 51. franchise with two years' residence ; but he be- On the motion of Lord REDESDALE the following 1 lieved that whether it was a 10/. franchise or a 51. &an bills were read a third time :—Victoria Gas, Swansea 1 chise very much the same class of persons would be re- Harbour, Trent and Swansea Dock Company, North I turned as now. He thought the franchise should be ex- Western Railway, West London and Crystal Palace I tended to the clergy—rectors and curates—medical men, Ra il wa y, Caledonian Railway (Lines to Granton), Mid officers in the army and navy, apothecaries, and to lite- Sussex Railway, Metropolitan Cattle South Eastern racy and scientific men generally. It had been suggested Ra il wa y (Greenwich junction) to Dartford. that in each county, city, or borough, containing a cer- THE MILITIA. tain number of educated men of the description he re- Lord PANMURE said, before their lordships pro. ferred to, a member might be chosen from this class, the (seeded to public business, be wi s h e d t o bring i n a bill electors of that class voting for a member of the class, for the embodiment of the militia—(bear, hear, from the without, however , losing their other franchise as h o u s e - Opposition)—between this and th e 25th of Marcb, with- holders or freeholders. It had been suggested that 70 out the necessity of calli ng P ar li amen t t oget h er upon members might well be chosen by this class, and that embodiment taking place. It would not be ne- this view had been strongly represented to the cessary to present the bill, if it were not that the law noble lord at the head of the Government. He h required that, in case of the embodiment of the m ilitia, held it to be absolutely necessary to maintain inviolate Pal liament should be summoned together within fourteen the distinction between county and city or borough re days from such embodiment. In the present state of P resentatives, and should regard, n ot only with jeal o u s y but with aversion, any such plan as that which so oft en meat to meet during the recess. The Government have of affairs it does not seem de-irable to compel perils lately occupied the attentio n o f th e o ther house of P ar - Lament for letting in upon th e coun ti e s the 101. v o t ers , always the power of calling Parliament together if the t necessity for such a step existed. If this were a bill fur thereby reducing to a nullity th e vo t es o f th e p r op r i e t ar y the embodiment of the militia on account of a war with body- The distinction to which he referred was an es. a foreign country, such a proceeding would no doubt be sential part of the mixed constitution, and he should re necessary. There seemed to be an impression abroad Bard it as a blow a ll b u t f a t a l t o th a t co n stituti on if that the Government required power to embody the there were no longer to be co un ty mem bers, but borou g h militia, but he begged to state that the Government re- members ; for that appea re d t o hi m t o be an inevit a bl e quired no such power, if they were enabled to meet par - consequence of swampi ng th e coun ti e s with 101. ho use • liament within a certain time after such embodiment. hold votes. No do u bt th ere was grea t h ar d s hip in th e The circumstances under which the present bill fact that a man having a 101. house in a borough was was considered necesearry, were these. The militia entitled to a vote, whereas the man having a 101. house in the county was not entitled to a vote; but their sys ant only gave the Government power of embo dying the militia in expectation of insurrection or inva- tem was full of such hardships. It was a great hardship lion of the country. In the year 1854 Parliament passed that the 1,340,000 inhabitants of the West Riding shill to enable the country to have the advantages of a should retu rn on ly t wo mem b ers , w hil s t th e coun t y o f militia force embodied in the event of a war with a Rutland, with a pop u l a ti on o f on ly 24,000, return e d t wo foreign country. Neither of these things existed at pre- members. It had been suggested to divide the country sent. But a state of things did exist in our eastern pos- into electoral districts, as in France, and he was at sessions which occasions as great a drain of the enforce- one time inclined to adopt that view himself as the menus of this country as it we were carrying on la only means of grappling with corruption and bribery. foreign war. It is thereforenecessary, under such circum- But he' was glad to perceive from the proceedings stances, to supply the vacua a created by the demands before the election committees now going on that made by India; for more regiments. In order nothing like general corruption or bribery was found to to do this, H.M. Government had determined, in the prevail at the late elections, which result was chiefly to first place, to raise ten battalions to supply be ascribed to the competence of the parties to be wit the place of those who are gone—to raise the regiments nesses under the act of 1851. They often had heard of at home from 841. rank and file to 1,000, and to raise the great evil of universal suffrage, and to it he lately those in India from 1,000 to 1 ,2 0 0- All these al- heard it said that the laying prostrate of the political terations can be made without going beyond the pro- liberties of France was to be ascribed. He was as much visions of the present Mutiny Act. As the hou se was opposed to universal suffrage if applied to the choice of aware, the ultimate charge of these forces would a man, an officer, or a measure, as any man could be. fall on the East India Company, and not upon the home He believed it could lead to nothing but evil, but he revenue. At the same time the existing crisis rendered it begged to say that the liberties of France did not lie some hat difficult for the East India Company to raise Prostrate before universal suffrage, but before the recon these new battalions. The drainage from this country lections of those dreadful scenes in 1793 and 1794, which of her regular troops, in the interim, was so no man could even name without shuddering—when the great as to render it necessary for the Government mob, the monster tyrant, ruled France—the mob, that to call out and embody certain militia regiments worst of tyrants, which had all the bad propensities of tyrants, their cruel nature and vile caprices ; so that from which he was quite prepared to say they might ex pect to derive the same good services as had been refl. one hardly knew whether most to dread it when ele dered by the same Lumber of the regular army. It was vated by hope or depressed by fear—when intoxicated not absolutely necessary that because the power was with success or in the paroxesms of despair. There was given that it must be Exercised, but it would only be a later triumph of the mob in 1848 and 1349, which used as necessity require though not so cruel or disgraceful as those of 1793, y e t d. His noble friend in the other house would present an estimate of 200,0001. to provide produced scenes to be deplored, while ail that followed for the expenses of those forces between the present those scenes showed the utter incapacity—he said it witb period and tee 31 _t of March. The noble lord concluded regret—of their excellent friends across the Channel fur by moving the first readiug of the bill, carrying on parliamentary government as we did. What The Earl of lIARDWIUKE cordially agreed with the was the cause of this difference ? It was owing first to noble lord as to the necessity of embodying the militia, the difference in the characterjof the t wo na ti ons ' for b u t like alt the other acts of the Government it hail whereas the people of England were inclin e d t o hull by Leen decided on too late. It seemed to be a fatality with that which was established and,handed down from farmer the present Government to be always a little too late, ages as the fruit of experience, and therefore desereiag Earl GRANVILLE thought that the Government of their confidence—no doubt they carried this too far, were not open to such criticisms. They felt it was ne- for they were much too slow in remedying defects—the cessary to defer the enlistments until after harv es t people of France, on the cont rar y, seeme d t o o bj ec t t o operations.' everything that was established. Whilst we, in this The Es lof DERBY did not offer the slightest objec. country, were inclined to think that " whatever is, Lion to the bill, lie only thought that Government is riglit,"the people of France were disposed to think that could have easily seen the necessity for this measure at whatever is, is wrong. One of the witty writers of that an earlier period. country, Paul L. Courier, said be was the only man in Lord PANMURE thought that it was not possible to Fiance who had the good quality of not believing that he have taken this step sooner, ought to be king of the country. It was a feeling in the The bill was read a first time. French people that they wished to bring down all to THE REFOR.M BILL. their own rank, not of raising others who were below Lord BROUGHAM rose to move for a return of the them to their own rank. He spoke of course not of all number of electors in every county and division of a Frenchmen, but that this feeling was widely spread county, city, and borough in the United Kingdom. He amongst the French nation. He wished the French said that he considered it his duty, from the share he bad would imitate us in our constancy and adherence to the e in the measure of 1831.32, t o s t a t e one or t wo circum stablished order of things; the want o f th a t h a d b een stances connected with that measure, alio to call the the cause of all their revolutions. In this country men attention of the Government to what had been the results of all parties were determined to sacrifice their own opi of it. It had been announced that it was the intention nions rather than do anything to injure the working of of the Government to present next session a bill for the system. The result of this composition of forces was Parliamentary reform, one having a tendency to effect a diagonal motion such as we witnessed in our political a change in the present system of representation. He affairs. In France the forces were in direct antagonism ; trusted the bill would receive their most anxious consi- each party carried out its own views as far as it had deration. There was a great difference in the situation power to do, and sought the destruction of itsopponents, of the country at present to what it was in 1830, when The inevitable consequence was revolution. To avoid a the last bill was brought in. It was then said there was repetition of these horrors as witnessed in 1793, and no feeling in the country in favour of Parliamentary re- also the'abuse of Parliamentary government which oc form, and he was taunted in that house with the fact mined in 1846, as well as to avoid the evils of socialism, that in the canvas of the county of York which he had the French people had submitted to a strong and able just gone through be had never heard the word reform government, which bad preserved peace and tranquilldy mentioned. He was obliged to admit the fact ; but cir- to all. He hoped they would long continue to flourish under such a government. Th e v i ews h e h o d propoun d e d cumstances soon changed, and every man in En g l an d talked of notbing but reform. That was owing, in some were his own sincere opinions. He bad deemed it his measure, to the change of Government, and the an- duty as one of the authors of the Reform Bill to protest nouncement they made of their intention to take up the against any measure which went to alter the constitution question. It might be said that, on the present coca- of the House of Commons, by making it more demo- Bien, a like announcement would produce the same cratic ; he considered that it was made sufficiently so by effect. He doubted it, however; for the reasons which the measure of 1832, and be protested against any fur then existed were no longer in operation, Public feel ther change in that direction. He concluded by moving ing was then excited by the long postponement of the for the returns above specified. measure and the refusal of the Government to consider Earl GRANVILLE said that all parties must have it ; and the declaration of the Duke of Wellington been gratified at hearing the opinions of the noble lord, against it, and the fact that all the large towns—Man- which were entirely his own. He (Lord Granville) had cheater, Sheffield, Birmingham, and Leeds—were entirely not had any communication with the Government on unrepresented, coupled with the gross abuses at the else- the subject. tiona in the small towns and the corruption amongst the The motion was then agreed to. freemen ; ail these causes operated to produce all over THE AUSTRALIAN MAILS. the «wintry a desire for a large measure of Parliamen- The Earl of HARD WICKE called the attention of the tary reform. He entirely denied that the announcement house to the contract for carrying the Australian mails. Of the Government would produce such a feeling on the Thecolunists had long suffered great inconvenience from present occasion. It might be a great advantage to have tho way in which the postal service was conducted, but the country in a calm state for the consideration of the sub- he did not blame the Government for this, ho merely ject ; he admitted there were some defects in the former wished to draw their attention to the matter, Great de bill which might be safely an d secure ly reme di e d , an d h e rangement had been caused in the service by the war. As would rather see a measure to supply one or two defects soon as peace was restored the Government had endea suggested by and arising out of them, than any great or voured to put the service on a proper footing. He found general plan of what would be called a sweeping measure that last year the cost of the postal service was 572 390/ of reform. He entirely denied the proposition thatDIVORCE, dtc. BILL. the while this year it was 785,3561, Con d tracts had been en- , Mr. WARREN gave notice that on the motion for former hill was a failure. Two classes of persons held tered into by the Government ber b ten tender, and, as is neon! going into committee on the Divorce, &c., Bill to-mor taat opinion ; one consisted of those who were strong in such cases, they did not bind theves. to accept the row, he would move that the house go into committee opponents of the bill, and who considered it a revou- lowest tender. In this case they themselves highest tender, on that day three months. (Cries of oh a tionary rn-easure, and the other consisted of those who but along with that they took the worst THE JEWS BILL. considered it did not go far enough, and called it a mock . forming the tender, and after theydiec t ove m i'ed al t s ha o t f t p h e e r y . Sir F. THESIGER asked the noble lord the Mem measure of reform. He denied altogeaher it was either had sought to bolster up the company whom the ten• t her for the City of London, supposing the house granted a mock or moderato measure ; it was a very large one, der was given. Two companies bad tendered owacst taking sevening a select committee to consider the mode of and some Eisen, and they supporters of the Govermein, the Peninsular and Oriental, which possessed s o o n : . the oath by members, what he proposed to do thought it went rather too far. He entirely differed the finest ship s i n th e wo r m, an d they offered to perform with his oaths bill that stood for a second reading to. from those who contended it was no reform at all, tee- the contract with several of their best ships, They also night. cause it left so much undone. Hie answer to this was, hod the advantage of having three of these vessels on the Lord J. RUSSELL said he should on that occasion a single date—the 10.;h of April, 1348. He relied on ot h er s i de of the Cape—already on the ground, so that postpone its record reading for a month. the 10th of April, 1848. If the bill had not become law they were prepared to undertake the contract itninedi- LIABILITY OF TRUSTEES. that day would not have pa-eted over them so quietly and ately from both ends. They proposed to undertake it for Mr. HADFIELD asked the Attorney-General whe p; aceably as it had done. Some persons were of opinion 135,0001, to terminate at Melbourne, or 140,000/, to ter- ther he intended to bring in a bill this session or the that the machinery of tee Reform Bill had not turned minate at Se dns The company was perfectly ca p a bl e i n next to relieve trustees f rom certain liabilities at law in out a very p er f ec t manu f acture; t h at t h at manufacture, every way of performing Y the duty. A certain company, respect of trust property, consequent on acts done by namely, the El luiie of Commons, was not so excellent as ca ling itself the Australian Mail Packet Company, them in the reasonable exercise of their judgment, and it might be. That w as th e opi n i on o f s o me . H e did not offered to perform the duty for 185,0001., and agreed to without fraud ; and from the acts of co-trustees, de share that opinion, and he hoped that the House of Cone- subject itself to higher penalties; but the diff e rence i n th e pos i ts w i t h b an k ers , an d ot h er dealings, such as would moos, as at prese n t const i tute d , would be found te de- amount of the contract was more than sufficient to cover be reasonable and proper in the conduct of private busi serve the confidence of the country and of their lorilseip., any possible penalty, They proposed to place at the ser- nese I lie believed that one of the great d e f ec t s of th e R e f orm vice of the Crown el c a ertain vessels, equal in tonnage to The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that under the Act was that of requiring men to be returned on vacat- those of the Peninsular r and Oriental Company; but of the circumstances he should not introduce a bill this see ing their seats on accession to office. He thought that vessels named two were not even built, an d none o f them mon. He would give the subj ec t hi s earnest attent i on in any new reform bill this sho u ld no l onger be requheel were o n th e other side of the water. One, the Oneida, was during the recess, and bring in a bill next session. (Hear.) —at a 1 events, that if the persm vacated the seat on reported ready for service on the Ist August, 1856 ; but appointment to the first office it should net be necessary the Parliamentary return showed that she was not ready LEASES AND SALES OF SETTLED ESTATES to vacate it on promotion in office. He recollected— for sea till October. On 18th October she was surveyed, (IRELAND) BILL. and with much pain—that the law measures which were and went to sea on the 20. h. In answer to a question from Lord R. GROSVENOR, In the other house it brought forward in the year 1834 were abiolutely sus- ' had been stated by the First Lord of the Admiralty that Mr. WHITESIDE said that if he could not bring gone to sea. Mr. on the bill to-morrow night, be would give the noble periled altogether, because the then Solicitor-General, he did not know how it was she h Wilson afterwards stated that the lied of the surveyor on his being appointed to the office of Attorney-General,lord no further trouble about it this session. lost his seat for Dudley, and the consequence was had not been made to the Admiralty until after the chip COMMUNICATION BETWEEN LONDON AND that every one of these , l aw bills was stopped, had sailed. The fact was she had been reported as DUBLIN. He did not think there would be much difficulty on that totally unfit for sea, but she had trailed, to take her . Mr. REPTON asked the S e c re t ar y o f th e T reasury point, and in connection with that he th oug ht it wou ld chance with the mails.S he broke down, some portion if he would lay upo n th e t a bl e o f th e h ouse cop i es o f t h e be a great improvement that men in office should have of h er machinery having given way. At length she correspondence between the Government and the Lon seats in Parliament without votes. That was the case in found her way under canvasei, Melbourne, and another occurred. en t i c The company had don and North Western Railway Company, relative to almost all other countries, and the only exception to the break-down afterwards goth the improved communication between London and sular and Oriental Cern ed by 45, rule was England. His noble friends Lind Grey and been obliged toDublin ? Lord Auckland had no doubt whatever when the Reform pony and borrow one of theirn vessels, the Shale, to Mr. WILSON said he should have no objection to Bill was under discussion that this would be a great im. enable them to carry out the contract, for which they lay the conditions on the table. Copies of the correspon provernent. The necessity of a constantly renewed re- had obtained an amount larger deuce would be too voluminous to present to the house. gtstratinn was another defect of the Reform Act. The other company had demand 000/. than the . e- . CIVIL CONTINGENCIES FUND, occupation of a 101. house was required as a proof of the company was not only oblis,,,entt to borrow ships, but they Jens was not all ; this Mr. WISE asked the Secretary to the Treasury what respectability of the voter, and as the man who once oc- were reduced to ask 0 copied l ' -e Peninsular and Oriental, but in this was the total amount of the money advanced to Mr. a 10/ e house must necessarily be the same man and afterwards t eariard's Company to join them, w 'e successful. Meantime the colonies were Ouseley on account of the Monte Videan Government ; when he came to occupy a Si . house, it was a great error they were ne not to have a man once a voter always voter , I ts u ffering ' by whose authority the advances were made from the ro, eubetantitablbly, a was e from the irregularities of the service • Civil Contingencies Fund ; and what prospect . Ulu- there was in the counties. The Reform Act gave me' - ..ely this miserable company hit upon another plan the judg es of the repayment of the 373951. stated to be the balance ters. lie had considerable of appointing the revising banes- t . . o relieve themselves from their embarrassments, Packet Company to now due to this country; and whether it was the practice Be thought objection to giving that re_ ,vrer I to the judg es , ' They asked the West India Steam Treasury for patronage to th e judgesought it was a bad thi- t e . • ; that it was bad "eg o give join them in their contract, and also attempted to get paymentsof the Foreign . Office to draw on the of this character to foreign Governments with bed for the profession, t t i s , nd not ala . v i ce , Ile underetoo I , s ior the judges, two years added to the existing contract of the latter out the consent and knowledge of Parliament / WILSON said that the total amount sgood for the s , e i r company. The contract of the West India Packet Corn. Mr, t was __ granted mee t guided the ch o i ce :" fa ' . .euritie d n Y rather g than ju g- pang was made in 1851, at a very exorbitant rate, 270,0001. as it alight, the ts nt neat l y i ns . ..to the Monte Videan Government . 5 . 0,9091. Of that ,es '"ins s h oal b stances ;bu, be that a year ; an d the effect of this arrangement would be, 37,3951. was advanced from the Civil Contingencies bi 1. Anotn h. defect of the Ref.: remedied in any tasw 1 that for the two contracts a sum of 445,0001. a year would Fund. Means were being taken to induce the Monte too !nap; freemen in existence. ?Frio,- w et was, th a t it l e f t b e pa i d. It had been recommended that all the existing Videan Government to repay the money, and ne'aaona made to a friend of hi s who a w e as one of the co n - con t racts s h ould be revised before renewal ; and he had nothing would be left undone to ensure that :note. nese freemen were not the best voteriv now no no doubt if the West India contract were a:lowed to }Teen and in general they were the worst ; mor n e c ane, re- I expire, there would be plenty of parties who would take result. The Civil Contingencies Fund wa s established to meet a sudden emergency, and if the tmin prevailing amongst thorn than any other rt'ie- ,it kr 100,0001. a year, Unless the government tenni- Foreign Minister wanted money he applied to the Tree voters, He understood that the state of thing s in class Ireland I nated this contract at the earliest period it would be sury, who if they saw fit, granted the money. This was was much worse than in this country. He would there- I most discreditabl e to the parties concerned. The considered a legitimate application of the money, and fore restrict this clas s of voters to the extent of abolishing government had the power at once to terminate the the Treasuary advanced it. them altogether. lie thought it might be very passible ,In sract, for the company had broken the conditions. Mr. WISE asked how it was that the amount had ,uc la a case there to redeem the pl e d g e o f a new re form, without greater or p ropping u ought to be no patching and been kept out of the votes ever since 1851. more extensive changes in the present system. Amongst governmet &from%) companies by m eans o f agents i n a Mr. WILSON sa id th a t thi s was no t a vo t e of money. the more respectable class who now had no votes were form a duty, a Wbere a company con t racte d t o p er - It was a sum that had been advanced to be repaid. If the skill e d art i sans . lie did no t mea n the common day ought to diernie n e i was unable t o d o so, t h e government the hoe. member looked to l a st y e a r 's estimates, he labourers, but the artisans s killed in crafts, most of whom hoped this statemtZnatnd go again into th e mar k et. H e would find th e sum en t ere d i n th e Ci vi l C on ti n gen c i es were men of grea t mer i t an d i nte lli gence ;man y of whom progress in this mild p ut an end to any further Li st. business, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked how it was Mr. —as be well knew —were well educated, often endowed The Duke of ARGYLL pa with scientific knowledge ; all of whom, with hardly any mate the companies to which the proposal to amalge ' Ouseley was permitted to advance this money to the exception, were endowed with ability, talent, and :lilt. not been referred to the 0.. the noble earl alluded had Monte Videan Government? But apart from their talents, their skill ind their value, authorisation. If such a post-office authoritie s for their Mr. WILSON said he was acting under instructions the y were amongst the most independent '' in conditions ld at I • men the well east be required t ' me a - I proposal were made so ow from the Foreign Office at the time. community.Theyo be inserted in I Mr. DISRAELI said that Mr. Ouseley was Minister were more independent, with few the contract. The mein question raised exceptions, of their masters than their masters of them, earl was whether the Admiralty andtheT by the no bl e Plenipotentiary at the time acting under peculiar cir reasury wer e cumstances. seed he would venture to say that in no part of the cow, ' •ustitied in their original contract for carrying CONFERENCE WITH THE LORDS. try had a cry ever been heard from that class in j .s favour of Australian mail. Now, the noble earl had passed th e secret, voting. Generallyove r a Several of the members of the house were appointed 'Peaking they treated' he hal very itn )orlaut platten namely, the questionof lot with cuutetapt, because in 99 out, of 100 ties, I ' • , ~ , penal- to hold a conference with the House of Lords upon the cases they and thin was a point tipou wtnon the post-office sub ject of au whitens to her Majesty, under the provi. ---- HOUSE OF LORDS--(YEsTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool. sack at five o'clock. Lord MONTEAGLE presented a petition from Portsmouth against the Thames Conservancy Bill. Lord COLVILLE presented a petition from a place in Scotland against the Parochial Schools (Scotland) Bill. The Earl of DERBY said that if the Government in sisted on the particular form of levying the penalties, which they seemed to prefer, the companies taking these contracts would be certain to cover themselves, and more than cover themselves against any possible loss. In the present case the government was paying 40,0001• a year additional for the sake of these absolute penalties. The noble duke was in error with regard to the relative extent of the services the two companies offered to perform. If he would refer to the printed tenders he would find that they both proposed to com vence the voyage at Sus x. The noble duke had passed over what was the most important point in his noble friend's question. He had not given any explanation with regard to the Oueida's sailing with the mail, not withetanding the Government inspectors unfavourable report. The noble duke might not be himself prepared with an answer, but these questions were not put to the Postmaster but to the Government,,and the Govern ment ought to be able to reply to them. The case was a very simple one. Toe contract had been clearly broken, and the Government might at any moment put an end to it. If they did so and went into the market kr a new tender, they would probably be able to make a better and a more economical arrangement. The Duke of ARGYLL had omitted to notice another important difference in the two tenders. The Austra lian Company offered to perform the sea voyage in 39 days outward and 35 homeward, whereas the Peninsular and Oriental only offered to do in 45 days outward and 43 homeward. The following bills were aeveral'y advanced a stage : County Court Judges' Salaries Bill—Read a first time. Land Tax Commissioners' Names Bill—Read a second time. Parochial Schoolmasters (Scotland) Bill ; Caledonian and Crinan Canals Billy ; Land and Assessed Taxes, &c. (Scotland) Bill ; Christchurch (West Hartlepool) Bill— Committed. Crown, &c., Suits (Scotland) Bill—Amendments re. ported. Glebe Lands (Ireland) Bill ; Boundaries of Land (Ire land) Bill—Read a third tame and passed. FRAUDULENT SALES ACT. The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a petition from a society at Glasgow, complaining of this act, which was passed last year. It appeared to him that the petitioners were under some misapprehension, but the subject should receive his best attention. LUNACY (SCOTLAND) BILL. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Lin litbgow against this bill. Their lordships rose at ten minutes before eight. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTBRDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. SLIGO AND HUNTINGDON ELECTIONS. The Clerk of the Crown attended at the table of the house and amended the returns for Huntingdon County and Sligo Borough, in accordance with the decision of the Committees. After which Mr. Fellowes for Hunt ingdon, and Mr. Wynno for Sligo, took the oaths and their seats in the room of Mr. Heathcote and Mr. P. Somers unseated on petition. sions of the 15 and 16 Vic., cap. 51, during which time the business of the house was suspended. On the re turn of the members, Mr. MASSEY reported that the members had net Earl Granville, as representing the House of Lords, and delivered to his lordship an ad dress agreed to Ly the house, which required the c'ncur rence of the Lords, and they had accordingly handed the address to his lordship. Colonel W. PATTEN asked the President of the Board of Control, whether there was any objection to the following returns being annually laid before Parlia- ment previous to the Indian financial statement :- ISt. A return of the sums expended in each year in British India in the construction of roads and bridges and works of navigation ; specifying the districts in which they have been constructed, and the length and expense of new road and navigation in each district. 2d. A similar return as regards the construction of works of irrigation, distinguishing those which serve the purpose of navigation and irrigation, and including the construction or improvement of water tanks. entitle all the gentlemen cf the lOW rnewben cf the hou.e, to he upon the committee. Lord J. RUSSELL perfectly coincided in that view. The SPEAKER—T?Ie correct mode of potting the qut;stiqn will be in tine manner sug l i, , e>te I by the hon. and learned gentleman the member for Shetlie!d. In that case the question will stand thus—that the corn mittee do cmsist of 25 members nominated by the house, and of all the members of the long robe members of this house. The names of those hon. and learned gentlemen will of course be added to the resolution. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HILDYARD remarked that, among the 25 names proposed, there were many members of the long robe. rdiug of the proposed enactment. The clause as it stood woull disentitie fr3tn compensati.m all who might receive office under the act. The SPEA.KER—Twenty-five members will be no minated by the house, and all the members of the house who are also members of the long robe will likewise be upon it. 'Mr. CONNOLLY was at a loss to understand what question was ready before the house. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY remarked that there were 97 gentlemen members of the house who were also mem bers of the long robe. The committee would therefore consist of upwards of 100, and he did not think that it would do much work in the dog-day 3. The SPEIKER, put the question in the form he had himse!f suagested. Mr. V. SMITH said there was no objection to supply the returns asked for. They were made periodically, but he could not Fay if they could be made up so accu rately as the hon. member required. Mr. COX insisted on tho propriety of the words " le gal profession" being substituted for " long robe," so that he, and other attorneys, members o f th e house, might help the barristers in their deliberations. Mr. WARREN thought it would be a great benefit to have a couplo of attorneys upon the committee, as they might fee the gentlemen of the long robe. (Laughter.) Mr. HADFIELD thought that he ought to be on the committee. Tho aglow:talent was then withdrawn, and the words "of qui value" were inserted at the suggution of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Mr. HADFIELD callel attention to some of the enormous claims for compensation which had been put in. In one case a gentleman, who was a registrar at Chester with an income of 5,0001. a-year, had received no less than 112,1401. in 20 years, and yet had the mo desty to come forward and c rnplain that he was to be cut down to a retiring arowance of 600/. a-year. The hon. gentleman moved that the proviso appended to the 29th clause be omitted. Mr. FITZROY thought the best course for the house to adopt would be to agree to the resolution as amended by the Speaker, after which it would be competent for any gentleman to move that the names of the hon. mem ber for Finsbury and the hon. member for Sheffield be added to the committee. Sir F. THESIGER said that course could not be adopted without notice. Mr. HENLEY said that among the names proposed by the noble lord there were already 15 members of the long robe. He wished therefore, to know if the resole Lion in its present form would exclude them from the 25 to be nominated by the house, and place the house in the predicament of having to select 15 other gentlemen to supply their place. Mr. SALISBURY defended the Rev. Chancellor Raikes, the gentleman referred to by the hon, member for Sheffield, as the registrar of the Diocesan Court of Chester. That gentleman personally superintended all the duties belonging to his office to the entire satisfaction of the public, and it was invidious to single him out for comment. Mr. ROEBUCK said that the gentleman in question enjoyed an office for 20 years bringing in 5,0001 a-year, and doing absolutely nothing for it. He lived 12 miles from his place of business, and it was idle and absurd to say that such a man was entttlsd to compensation. He hoped the hon. and learned gentleman the Attorney- General would resist such a rnon'trous proposition. Col. SYKES asked whether the case of Mr. Raikes cams udder the operation of the act 6 and 7 Wm. IV. (1836) ? The ATTORNEY-GENER A.L said that Mr. Raiktli case came within the act 6 and 7 Win.lV. That act had remained obst lete for 20 years, and he asked whether it would be fair, inasmuch as the ecclesiastical courts bad not been abolished by it, to take down the act and use it against parties seeking compensation at the present day. Mr. T. EGERTON said the doctrine laid down by the Attorney-General was a new one ; but it behoved the house to consider well the principle before they admitted it. LABOUCHEBE said the beet course at present was to adopt the form of resolution su,ige-ted by the Chair, leaving the point raised by the right hon. gentle man to be afterwards settled. Lord J. RUSSELL had no objection to the substitu tion of the words " legal profession," for the words " long robe," but he thought it better that the house should agree to the resolution in its present shape. Mr. BENTINCK, who was met with loud cries of "Order, order," and "Spoke, spoke," rose to oppose the resolution. He maintained that as the present was a new question he had a right to address the house upon it. The SPEAKER ruled that the question was pre cisely the same as that before the house when the hon. and gallant member last spoke. Mr. BENTINCK considered it altogether a new question, and thought the confusion in which the house bad been labouring for the last 20 minutes ought to con vince the noble lord of his mistake in taking the unusual course he was taking in reference to this matter. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY was also of opinion that the resolution had been altered. Colonel KNOX wished the Speaker, as the highest authority upon all points of order, would explain how the question at present really stood. The SPEAKER—Th re was some difficulty in the proposition as it originally stood, t remove which I suggested the insertion of a word. That suggestion the noble lord rec,ived and moved it. The resolution was then agreed to without a division. Sir F. THESIGER said, as it would now be neces sary to strike out the names of the gentlemen of the long robe which appeared in the notice given by the noble lord, and as the house could not substitute other names for them without some hon. gentleman giving notice to that effect, he would suggest to the noble lord to post• pone the nomination of the committee until to-morrow (this day), and PO give the opponents of his scheme an opportunity of having their views fairly represented upon the committee. Lord J. RUSSELL thought the objection of the hon. and learned gentleman the member for Stamford was alto gether owing to the uutortunate position which he occu pied, seeing that the mo=t eminent members of the party with which he acted were in favour of the emancipation of the Jews. He wished the committee which he pro posed should fairly represent both sides of the house, and he did not know how he could omit the names of the right hon. gentlemen the members for Buckinghamshire and Droitwitch, and of the noble lord the member for King's Lynn, all of whom were disposed to admit the Jews to a seat in that house. (Hear.) On the motion that Lord Palmerzton be a member of the committee, Mr. NE WDEGATE bad no opposition to offer to any of the names proposed, but he did not wish to see the existence of more than 200 members of that house ignored. It was studiously endeavoured to represent to the public that this was aeon est lfetween the two Houses of Parliament, and that no member of aoy importance in that house was opposed to it. (Hear, hear, and ironical cheers) That was not the ease. There was a strong oppu sition to the admission of the Jews, and although some of the hon. members upon the front bench were in favour of it, still those who opposed it were headed by the real and recognised leaders of the Conservative party. He would therefore move as an amendment the adjourn ment of the debate. Mr. SPOONE!Z seconded the amendment. Lord J. RUSSELL said he would be disinclined to stand i❑ the way of the public business, and would, if it met the convenience of the nobie lord the First L rrd of the Treasury, postpone the ❑omination of the com mittee until to-morrow (this day). Lord PALMERSTON said he considered that that would be the most convenient course to follow, and to take the nomination the first thing to-morrow. Lord J. RUSSELL—At the evening sitting. Mr. HENLEY said that among the 25 names pro posed there would be 13 who were not members of the long robe, including in that 13 the right hon. gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Deptrtraent, and Mr. ROEBUCK was also startled by the doctrine of the Attorney-General. An act of Parliament was passed, which distinctly stated that if this gentleman accepted the office he should not be entitled to compensation ; but, said the Attorney-Generel, Parliament made a pro mice and had not kept it. But this gentleman having been kept in office—which was a benefit to him—for 20 years, at an income of from 5,000/. to 8,000/ a-year, he now came to the house and asked for compensation. (Hear.) There had been no promise made to this gentle. man, but to the country. He would call upon the House of Comnions to look there matters steadily in the face, and refuse this compensation. After some observations from Mr. Newdegate, Mr. Barrow, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. ROEBUCK asked whether his hon and learned friend meant to divide the house on the subject. (Hear ) The committee must remember what they were doing. They were destroying the effect of an act of Parliament, and they would have some future Att )rney-General saying that acts of Parliament like the present were ab solute, notwithstanding the provisions they contained. Tne ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was extremely invidious to select the case of one overpaid functionary, and to neglect the cases of the many underpaid func tionaries of the same class. He should certainly divide the committee upon the question. The committee then divided, when the numbers were— For the amendment Against it Majority ---68 Mr. HADFIELD then moved an amendment to the clause, to the effect that, in computing any allowance, due consideration should be given to any office or situa tion retained by the party. • The AT roRNEY.GENERA.L said that the compen sation was to be given at the discretion of the Treasury, and of course they would take such circumstances as those referred to in the hon. member's amendment into consideration. The bill, besides, contained an ex prese proviso, which would me e t th e cases re f erre d t o . The amendment was then negatived without a divi sion, and, after some further discussion, the clause was agreed to. On the clause being proposed by which the proctors were to receive compensation, Mr. MALINS said that the proctors unanimously felt the privilege reserved to them, by having the exclusive right of proving wills, was not worth preserving. Mr. ROEBUCK objected to the principle of compen sation being extended to the proctors. They had done no service for which they had not received an adeqaate reward. Mr. WHITESIDE could not see any analogy be tween the establishment of the county courts and the destruction of the proctors' business. Mr. KIRK sail that be was quite wilfing that the same compensation granted to the Irish bar, in conse quence of the recent Court of Chancery Act and the In cumbered Estates Court Act, should be granted to the proctors. Mr. AYRTON said they bad granted compensation in the very face-of an Act of Parliament, and now they proposed taking it away from those for whom that Act had provided it. This bill was now so changed that he had altered his mind, and was in favour of granting compensation. • Lord J. RUSSELL said he was satisfied that if the committee refused compensation to theme proctors, they would do great it justice to these men. They were a very peculiar body of men, limited is London to about 120 in number; their duties were not only performed to their clients, but also to the public, for they examined the will,, and pointed out fraudulent appearances, if such there were, and probate was thereupon refused. Thty paid about 1,0001. for their faculty to practise ; and it was admitted that they had acted with great fidelity, both to the satisfaction of the public and the judges. The question had come up from time to time of reform ing these courts One commission had stated that com pensation ougit to be given to these proctors; the Lord Chancellor proposed, instead, to give them a monopoly of the common form practice in London ; the Attorney- General himself had proposed to compensate them, and now he had introduced this bill with the clause of the Lord Chancellor's in it; but the committee had changed all that—the business of these men was destroyed, and the committee could dot, in justice to them, pass this measure without granting them compensation. (Hear.) It was the principle of Sir Robert Peel that in making reforms in the law compensation should be given. That principle had been acted up to, perhaps rather too fully, and ho could not conceive how the Attorney-General could oppose the proposition to give compensation to the proctors. M.. BRISCOE entirely concurred in what had fallen from the noble lord. He (Mr. Briscoe) was a friend of reform, but he was also a friend of justice. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would explain the the right hon, gentleman the inerrner for Cambridge ITnivers:ty, who, although they were barrister; yet were not generally accounted as belonging to the profession. Of the 13 there were only two were opponents of the al mission of the Jews, and 13 to two was, he thought, a ratio rather strong even for the noble lord. Lord J. RUSSELL said he thought there were four opponents of the Oaths Bill upon the committee. Mr. HENLEY said that as the noble lord had made an error in counting, he hoped he would now correct it. Lord J. MANNERS hoped the nob:e lord would fol low the nsual practice, and consult with the hon. and learned member for Stamford as to what names should be placed upon tha committee. Altera few words from Sir F. Thesiger, Mr. Bentinek, and Sir H. Willoughby, the motion for the adjournment of the debate to this day was agreed to. BEVERLEY ELECTION. position of a proctor. He derived hie business from three different sources—from the testamentary courts, the marriage and divorce courts, and the Admiralty courts ; in each of which he had a monopoly. It was proposed to compensate him in respect of all proctorial business ; and yet he derived an income from the other two sources, supposing the testamentary business to be thrawn open. MALINS intended to confine the c9mpensation to the testamentary busineas. Lie ATTORNEY•GENERA.L would argue the matter upon that basis, then. In the Divorce Bill there Wfil a clause giving him the exclusive practice, and in one branch of Viat practice he (the Attorney-General) anticipated a great increase in the business—(hear, hear) and, unless the proctor withdrew his claims to such ex clusive practice there was a difficulty in seeing how ho was to be compensated. Mr. A. SMITE! appearA at the bar,.and brought up the report of the committee on the Beverley election. Tne committee reported that Mr. Glover had not been duly elected a member to represent the bermgh of &- ve il , y . Th o c , onmittee al=o adopted a resolution to the following eff,ct :—" That Mr. Glover made and signed a declaration in the form prescribed by the 1 and 2 Vic., e. 43, sec. 2 and 6 ; and that it was the unanimous opi nion of the committee that the evidence taken before them shoal i be laid before the Attorney-General with a view to further proceedings being taken with reference to such declaration." Mr. MALTNS said the proctors would give up their (labia to the exclusive practice. The ATTORNEY•GEiNERAL thought the commit tee ought to he accurately informed as to this, as it was impossible to argue upon an hypothetical case. If the proctors were brought down to the lsrel of the solicitors then they ought to receivo compensation, and be placed in the position contemplated by the Government in their bill of last year. He would state the two propositions of the Government, and leave the committee to decide between them. If the proctors received compensation according t 3 the proposal of the hon. and learned gentle man, then they would be entitled to no monopoly at all. It was difficult to proCeed upon the contingency of the Marriage and Divorce Bill as well as the present becom ing law ; but in that event he should propose that, at the expiration of three years from the passing of the pre sent bill, an account should be taken of the professiona receipts of the proctors, and if, upon comparison with the receipts of the three antecedent years, a loss should be ascertained, compensation should be given upon that footing. He was not disposed to withdraw from the pro position of the Government in their bill of last year, to which - he oonsidered the Government pledged, namely, to give to the proctors an annuity equal to one-half of the 1 uses which they should sustain by the changes in the law, upon ao average of the five or three years fol lowing and preceding the passing of the bill ; the mono poly being given up in all Cases, and the whole business thrown open to the profession at large. He hoped the committee would think that the Government had met the case of these proctors fairly. Mr. WESTHE AD said there was this objection to the proposition of the Attorney-General, that If the proctor died during the three years he would get no compensa tion. The report wag ordered to be lald upon the table. PROBATES AND LE rrEas OF AD VHNISTRA. TION BILL. The house went into committee on this bill. On clause 1, Mr. MALINS moved the insertion of the following clause :—" Whereas it is expedient to provide a tempo rary fund for the payment of the compensations under the provisions of this act, be it enacted that in future the proctorial fee at present received and taken by the proc tors praotieing in England or Wales, in respect of grants of probate and administration, shall be levied, raised, and collected by the Court of Peobate and District Re gistries, and paid into the account of Toe Testamen tary Fee Fund Account ; ' provided, that as the respec• tive annuities allotted under this act by way of compen sation, shall from time to time cease, and after the commissioners of her Majesty's Treasury have been repaid all sums of money, with interest thereon, which they may have advanced in carrying -, into effect the provisions of this act, it shall be lawful for the judge of the eourt, and be is hereby required from time to time to reduce as he may deem necessary and proper the fees so to be levied an d pa id. Mr. SALISBURY moved the following amendments: —" Page 29, line 1, after "emoluments" insert "or business;" line 19, after " clerks" insert "and also to all such other persons ;" line 21, after " courts " insert "or by or under such registrars in the business of their respective offices." In reply to Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, by the returns made in 1832, and since, the wholeamount of the emolu mentsectrionamrispe 2de is o l as, f oa t 7t h ido e l n. numberutaidnn judges, es oerf, deputy-registrars t&hce. persons, new e w w e r bill.e w were—Judges, J o T u l vi il g oesu e s iBe , :isr l slb 3 olo , : 2 aB 7 entn l ioi / t ti regis trars imitnsoz he e p l e a n s s s a e d v were,viz., th e a s s e h a e p h p a e d i n a t l er d b d e y fe s r t e a t t e h d e , s d t i a v t i u d teed of i n L6o an tw d o and 7 Will. IV., and those appointed since that date. After making a deduction for the number who would continue to be employed under thenewact, he calculated that the total Emmet ofcempensation would not exceed 29,000/. With regard to the next portion of the question, he had to state that ad the fees received into the court would be paid over to the consolidated fund, and prac titally whatever compensation might be awarded would be levied upon the tax-payer. Las:ly, with regard to the suggestion of the hon, and learned gentleman that the stamp distributor:; shoul I receive compensation, he bad to remiad the committee that that was not an office which in any way entitled the holder to compensation— the stamp distributor was simply the machinery em ployed by Government for providing the public with etamps, and indeed he (the Attorney General) antici pated that persons holding that office would not be losers by the change in the law. After some discussion of no interest, the amendment Ras withdrawn. _ _ Mr. BOLT thought it would be more convenient to place all the district acd the London registries on the same footing,-and to allow both solicitors and proctors to practise in all the courts. Lord HOTHAM drew a distinction between the sue regates in the south of England and those in the pro vince of York ; the duties of the former were only confined to granting marriage licenses, whereas the latter transacted all the duties of a proctor. He bad given notice of a clause to the following effect :—"lt shall be lawful for the Commissioners of the Treasury to grant to every clerical surrogate who, at the time of the pass ing of this act, shall be acting under appointment from the Prerogative and Exchequer Courts of York, such compensation for any loss the said surrogate may sustain by the passing of this act as the said commissienur: deem just and proper to be awarded ; the said commis sioners having regard in awarding such compensation to the circumstances of the said cleric curry gates not being able to follow any other professional employment in lieu of the said office of surrogate." Some of the surrogates in York were incumbents in large manufac turing town., and only received a scanty remuneration for their services, and the e moluments wh.ch they ob tained as surrogates were necessary to the maintenance of the°e incumbencies. The case therefore of the surro gates in the province of York was especially deserving the attention of the committee. Hon. gentlemen mi g h t be aware, in the clause he was about to move, t hat Burro gates were not able to make up their salaries in any other way when they retired, as they were not, like the proctors, lawyers, who had so many opportunities of doing so. Col. SYKES considered the London proctors were entitled to compensation, and would vote for the amend ment of the bon. member for Wallingford. Mr. WIGRAM said that anything done for the iur. Sir F. KELLY proposed the oinis4on of certain words in order to make the clause, as he saki, reasonable. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended :;he clause as it atood. Sir F. KELLY again impugned the construction of tue clause, but the diseuseion entirely turned upon tho SUPPLEMENTAL ARMY ESTIMATES. Lord PALMELSTON, on br nging up this report, said it was necessary in the event of the necessity of embodying the militia, or any portioa of it, between this and next March; Lord Panmure would lay the estimates on the table of the House of Lerds fo•night. INDIA. In reply to a qnostion from Mr. DISRAELI, Lord PALMERSTON said that another letter of Gan. Napier had been found at the Horse Guards rela tive to the Indian at my, and he would lay that portion of it relating to the native army before the house. Mr. ROEBUCK ridiculed the idea of any delicacy in communicating the whole of it to the house, after the statement of Sir NV, Napier that it was published three years pince WEEKLY COMMUNICATION WITH INDIA. In reply to Mr. H. BAILLIE, Mr. V. SMITH said no steps had been taken to esta blish a weekly communication with India. THE OATHS BILL. On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON, the orders for the day were postponed to enable Lord J. Russell ti move his resolution. Lord J. RUSSELL then moved the following resolu tion—" For a select committee to consider whether the Act 5 and 6 Will. IV. c. 62, is applicable to oaths ap pointed by law to be taken by members of this house at the table, previously to taking their seats, and in what manner the said act can be so applied, and to report their observations thereupon to the house : That the committee do consist of the following twenty-five members :—Viscount Palmerston, Sir Gen. Grey, Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Walpole, Sir J. Pakington, Lord J. Russell, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Gladstone, Mr. Attorney-General, Mr. S elicitor-General, Sir Frederick Thesiger, Sir F. Kelly, Lord Stanley, Mr. foreman, Mr. Henley, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Malins ' Mr. Headlane, Mr. Attorney-Gener a l f or I re l an d, th e Lord Advocate, Mr. Dillwyn Mr. Napier, Lord R. Grosvenor, Mr. Whiteside, Mr.i Cobbett, and all gentlemen of the long robe members of this house." His lordship said that the Ba-on Rothschild had been informed that he could take the oath under the above act ; and it was in consequence that he (Lord J. Russell) had brought forward this motion. His lordship then referred to the act of William IV., which was introduced to do away with the multiplicity of oaths required to be taken in the excise and customs, including the officersof the great departments of the state, and allowing a declaration to be substituted where necessary. The noble lord, after reviewing the act, said that oe considered the House of Commons was a body included within the provisions of this act, and that a select committee, with the assistance of the law officers of the Crown, was the best tribunal to which they could refer this vexed question. The words of the oath " On the true faith of a Christian" were never intended to exclude Jews, but a certain sec tion of Roman Catholics, and he saw no reason why the oath should be literally strained against Jews, especially as Roman Catholics were by another form of oath admitted members of that house. Mr. Pease, a Quaker, was allowed to take his seat on making an affirmation, alter stating to the select committee ap pointed in his case that the words " on the true faith of a Christian" were objectionable to Quakers, being considered by many of them as swearing. In the same session that Mr. Pease took his seat, an act was passed to prevent a similar occurrence, and to pre vent all future cavil. Upon that act and precedent he had named he bad founded his application for a select committee to give their decision of the true interpreta tion of the act, after due inquiry and consideration. It behoved the house, in consequence of the determination of the House of Lords, not pass an Oaths Bills omitting the words complained of, to try if they could not find some other plan bywhich Baron Rothschild could legally take his seat. Sir F. THESIGER said he should not divide the house on the motion, but he expressed his astonishment that the provisions of the act should have been so long overlooked, when it was recollected that the noble lord had for 10 years been struggling to gain the dar ling object of his heart. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman referred to a select committee ap pointed some years since on the motion of Sir W. P. Wood, relativeto the terms of the oatherequired by mem , hers and called attention to the proph e ti c wor d s o f Si r Robert Peal, cautioning the house as to the probable, result via., the ultimate admission of Jews into Parlia ment, which he said deserved especial attention as they appeared to be on the eve of a crisis, (loud cries of "hear, bear," from the Ministerial side of the house) and he warned the house against doing any act that might precipitate it. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) The noble lord (Lord John Russell) bad some doubts then, and again in 1351 when Alderman SAlornons was returned for Greenwich, that Jews could not be admitted into that house except by an alteration of the oaths by Act of Parliament. Nothing more ridiculous or absurd, could enter the mind of man, than the idea that by the Act of William IV, Baron Roths child could take his seat in that house, and the hon, and learned gentleman proceeded at great length to point out the inapplicability of this statute to the members of that house. Cd. FRENCH said that the object of the noble lord, in which he concurred, was to refer an existing Act of Parliament to a committee, to see whether, under it, a declaration could be substituted for the present oath. He believed that the present clause under discussion had been brought under the consideration of the Attorney- General by 'Mr. Anderton, a gentleman connected with the city of London, and that he had expressed an opi nion that there could be no doubt as to the meaning of the clause. Nobody could entertain any doubt that Baron Rothschild could take his seat under the Act of Parliament. Mr. GARNETT said it appeared to him that the course which the noble lord was prepared to take would bring the house into conflict with the House of Loree, and put that house into collision with the courts of few; now, however much he loved the theory of civil and re ligiousriberty, he preferred the mere glorious liberty of the constitution. He, however, should vote for the motion, Lord PALMERSTON said he was not going to enter into any argument either as to his noble friend's mode of interpretation, and which hie noble. friend was dis posed to put upon the act to which his motion referred, or enter into an argument with the hon, and learned gentleman (Sir F. Thcsiger) opposite; but he was simply going to state that he quite concurred with the motion of his noble friend, as he thought the matter of sufficient importance to be referred to a select committee; and, therefore, he would simply acquiesce in his noble friend's motion, reserving to himself the right to form any opinion as to the correct inrerpretation of the act in question, after reading the observations of the committee which might les expressed is the report. Mr. NEWDEGATE would ask whether the noble lord at the head of the Government approved of the mode of selection proposed, which was a most unusual course to take. The house ought to resolve in th e fi rs t place that a committee should be appointed, and then proceed to resolve that it do consist of 25 members ; but in this instance it was proposed to lump the whole together, and this, as it appeared to him, was a most unusual proceeding. The motion that a committee be appointed was then agreed to. Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the committee do consist of the following 25 members— Sir F. THESIGER said the house must first deter mine that the committee should consist of 25 members, and that ought to be the first motion of the noble lord. Lord J. RUSSELL said that that no doubt was the usual course ; but it he did so in this case, it would ex. elude all the members of the long robe, who it was de sired, should have a voice in the committee; but he would defer the question to the Speaker. The SPEAKER said it appeared to him that this was not the usual course in nominating a committee who n were b e t o n exceed r a y p t r o es p c u r t i bed n u thep num. ti o l n t in t might, vv o h ow r, e distinctve which t t i n w g a s t the o r w e s o p ! r u o t p i e o n s e . d that 1 woulduti o , b b e n a t d i re t e h t e m o o n d e e o w f Lord PALMERSTON said that perhaps the difficulty might be met by putting the resolution in this way :-- "All the members of the long robe, and the following 25 members." (Hear, bear, and loud laughter ) Sir F. THESIGER said there was very c msiderable doubt whether the noble lord had permission to make this motion at all. He did not see why the house should pro ceed to select a committee. No resolution bad yet been carried. (Oh, ob.) If he was right, they could proceed regularly, and if wrong, he should be corrected by the highest authority. Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. and learned mem ber gave a true reason when he said the urgency of the case required this form of resolution. If these objections were raised, he must ask the house to consent to his mo tion. Redid not think the proposition of his noble friend woucklommmeeitttethe do consistdifficulty.e of 25 He m w em oul b d er s s. simply move that the On the motion being put, Mr. BENFINCK said be confessed he was at a loss to understand upon what ground the noble lord opposite proposed to urge on the house at this sort of haste. Being at the end of the session might be a good argument, but a 3 be had been strongly opposed to the admission of Jews, he could not assent to that reason. The nobl' lord proposed to combine all his resolutions in one, and his answer was, that if be could not be allowed to do this he should not have time to do it at all. He would submit to the Speaker whether the house was compelled to adopt the course proposed. The SPEAKER said there was nothing irregular in the motion made by the noble lord. Mr. ROEBUCK said that if the -question was put that the committee should consist of '25 members, that would he hn exclusive proposition' and no other names could be ad 4,2 to it. He would therefore suggest that the question be put in such a form as would PR EVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' Amendments to the following bills were considered and agreed to :—Fife and Kinross Railway ; Great Yarmouth Water ; Hamilton and Strathaven Rail- way ; Otley and Skipton Road ; Salford Borough (No. 1). THE IRISH FISHERIES. _ In answer to a question, Mr. HERBERT said that he hoped by the end of nwxt week, the Commissioners' report in reference to the Irish fisheries would be ready and laid on the table of the house. rogates of York in the way of remuneration should be also extended to the Furrogetes of Canterbury. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could see no objec tion to the clause proposed by the noble lord (L9rd Hotban). He would only ask the committee at present t determine the principle, and afterwards have the form of the enactment determined. Mr. MALTNS expressed his gratification at the can did manner in which his clause bad been met by the Government. As to the offer of the Attorney-General, be begged to ray he preferred his own clauses being adopted, and in return cede all exclusive practice on tb• part of the proctors. Ile also mentEned the case of the articled clerks, some of whom bad paid 1,000 guineas for their article?, and served seven years as well. Those gentlemen hoped Parliament would return their 1,000 guineas to them. (Oh, oh.) After a few words frobn Mr. ATHERTON, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the clauses for compensation in the bill of last year would be adopted. It his hon. and learned friend would withdraw his clatioes for the present, they might be br,vtig,lat up on the report in an amended form. This suggeistion was agreed to. Lord HOTHAM again moved his clause given above. Mr. WIGRA.M moved that the said clause apply to the surrogates of Canterbury and Durham. Agreed to. Mr. WALPOLE moved a clause to enable managing clerks of proctors and notaries of seven years' standing in Doctors'-commons, upon proof, to be admitted, with in one year after the passing of the act, on payment of stamp duties, to practise as such. The glamor was negatived. Mr. WIGRAM moved the following clause, which, with some amendments, was agreed to :—" All persons and corporations making any payment bona fide or other wise acting bona fide up,in any probate or letters of ad ministration granted in respect of the estate of any de ceased person under the authority of this act, shall be in demnified and protected in so doing, notwithstanding any defect or circumstance whatsoever affecting the validity of such probate or letters of administration. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved the insertion of the following clause :—That the judge of her Majesty's Court of Probate for the time being shall cause to be prepared in each year ending December 31 a return of all fees and moneys levied in such year on account of the Testamen tary Fee Fund, and of any other fund under the autho rity of this act; also, a return of the a nnua l sa l ar i es of the judge of the said Court of Probate, and of the regis trars, deputy-registrars, clerks, and all others holding offizes either in London er ip the country districts, with an account of all the incidental expenses relating to the offices aforesaid, whether such salaries and expenses be defrayed out of fees or out of any other moneys ; also a return of all superannuations, pensions, annuties, re tiring allowacces, and compensations made payable under this act in each year, stating the gross amount and the amount in detail of such charges—provided always that all such returns aforesaid shall be presented to both Houses of Parliament on or before the let day of Feb ruary in each year if the Parliament is then sitting, a nd it Parliament is not sitting, then such returns shall be presented within ten days of the first meeting of Parlia ment after the Ist of February in each year. Agreed to. Mi.. MALINS then proposed a clause to giVe articled clerks of proctors all fees, charges, and stamp duties paid by them on their entering the profession, the same to be allowed by the Trea•ury by way of compensation. The ATTORNEY•GENERAL opposed the clause, on the ground that it would open the door to a class of compensation which could not be justified. Mr. MALINS said that there were only 12 or 13 of those articled clerks, and that as their all was embarked in the profession they had adopted, it would be gross inj astice to deprive them of the premiums and fees they had paid. The committee then divided—. For the clause 57 Against Majority Tile clause was therefore lost, The ATrORNEY-GENERAL proposed to recommit the bill at 12 o'clock, for the purpose of adding nevi clauses, to have the bill reprinted, and then taken into consideration on Thursday, and read a third time on Friday. Mr; AYRTON gave notice that he should propose to add section 19 of the 3rd and 4th Willlatn IV. The preamble was agreed to and the house resumed. The General Thud of Health Bill was read a third time and passed. The Illicit Distillation (Ireland) Bill was recommitted , and a new clause added. THE INSURANCE COMPANIES BILL. In answer to Sir IL WILLOUGHBY, Mr. WILSON said it was intended to proceed with the bill this session. Sir J. TRELAWNEY moved that the house do no* adjourn. Lord PALMERSTON said the house had better go on with the business, and when any opposed bill carad on they could then determine the course they would pursue. - The motion was then withdrawn. DUNBAR HARBOUR (CONSOLIDATED FUND)! The house having gone into committee. Mr. WILSON explained that it was intended to intro. duce a bill to authorise a loan of 20,0001. for the purpose of improving this harbour. It was necessary to have an act to enable the corporation of Dunbar to mortgage their property to the Exchequer Loan Commissioners. The resolution was agreed to and reported to the house, SUPERANNUATION ACT AMENDMENT DIL L ' Oa the motion that this bill be !Tad a third time, Mr. AYRTON moved that the debate be adjourned' Lord NAAS hoped that no further opposition would be offered to the bill. Mr. AYRTON said the bill was most objectionable) and therefore he should persist in dividing the house. A. division was called for but none took place. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected to the third reading of the bill, on the ground that it would not settle the question. He would ask the noble lord the mernbe! for Cockermouth (Lord Naas) how be intended to deel with those parties who had already paid the sum of 760,000/. In this summary mode of dealing with the question the house placed the Executive in a false psi' tion with the civil service. Whether he considered the civil service the taxpayer, or the po s iti on o f th e go vern' went, he objected to the third reading. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not prepared to bring in a bill before he received the report of the actuaries who had been appointed. Snel l was the haste of the noble lord that no time was give° to the government to prepare a bill. Sir J. TRELAWNY said the reason he had oppose', the bill was becaused h e w i s h e d t o protect t h e nations+ exchequer. The better plan would have been to appoin t a committee to inquire into the whole of the civil eer' vice. Mr. AYRTON said the bill was not founded upoll any principle of justice, and characterised it as a mes' sure which had been got up by the civil servants care vabsing members of Parliament, instead of attending to their regular duties. After some irregular discussion, the house divided—. For the third reading 9l Against it Maj ority —6B The bill was read a third time and passed t• The Burial Grounds (Scotlind) Act (1855) Amend' ment Bill was read a second time, and alter Narita passoa through committee. NEW WRIT. Mr. lIAYTER moved that a new writ be made out for the election of a burgess for the borough of Great Yarmouth, whicb, after some discussion, was agreed. to• An HON. MEMBER noticed to the Speaker that there were not 40 members present. i It being found on a count taking place that only 16 members were in the house, it was adjourned at half• past two. Just published, price 3s. 6d., "Letter to Viscount Pa l. merston, K.G. on the Political Importance of the Euphrates Valley Railway, and the necessity of the financial support of her Majesty's Government." BI W. P. Andrew, F.R U.S., &0., Chairman Euphrates Valley Railway; with reports by Major-General Chesney and Sir J. Macneill, and memorandum, by Sir Justin Sbeil, K.C.8., and map. Also minutes of evidence before the House of Commons on the establishment of telegraphic communication with India through Turkish Arabia. By Sir W. B. O'Shaughnesay, T. K. Lynch, E-q., and W. Ainsworth, Lg., &c. "It can be hardly be doubted that Kurachee is destined to be the great arsenal of the Punjaub and North-Western India; per haps the emporium and even the real capital of British India. Kurrachee, by the Euphrates, is 1,400 miles nearer to England than Bombay is by the Red Sea.;'-- Sir Justin Sbeil, K.C.B. London : W. H. Allen and Co., 7, Leadehnall—street. BIRTHS. OF A BON. On the Ist inst., at 20, Hanover-square, Viseountesa Hardinge. On the 3d inst., at 21, Brompton•squsre, the wife of the Rev. W. C. Dowding: OF A DAUGHTER. On the 2d inst., at 17, Mansfield-street, Cavendish-square the wife of William A. Chaplin, Esq. On the 2d inst , at 80, Eceleston-square, the wife of Ormns Biddulph, Esq, MARK I EID. On the Ist inst., at Reigate Church, Reginald F. D• Palgrave, Esq., the youngest son of Sir Francis Pelgrave , K. H., to Grace, younger daughter of the late Richard Battley, Esq. DIED. On the 3d inst., at 6, Montem-villas, Adelaide-road, ar• Edward Graen, of City -road-wharf, aged 65. On the 3d inst:, Mr. George Ellis,late of the B an k of Engllud, aged 71. On tho 2d inst., at the Vicarage, the Rev. Thor. Robin; ROT), M.A., vicar of Milford, Hants, and Rural Dean, aged 71. On the let inst., Charles Turner, Esq., A.R.A., 50, W:trren-street, Fitzroy-square, aged 83. On tho Ist inst., Mr. Michael Samuel, of Colchester. On the Ist inst., at Lower Norwood, Mr. Wm. Perri, aged 7 4 . On the Ist inst., at Hayes, Middlesex, Mr. James Mid' dleton, late of Bermondsey, aged 80. On the 16th June, while doing duty with the 37th N a tive Infantry, from wounds received on the 4th, Ensign 0. • Y. Hayter, 25th N. 1., eldest son of John Hayter, Esq . ' Harley-street, aged 22. 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