The Sun. — London, England, 1840-07-25 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION. wits them who oppressed a man to do all in their power to malign him afterwards.—( Hear, hear.) He knew that imputations had been cast upon the cha racter of Mr. Thorogood. He also knew that they you'd easily be disproved. He would give the House an instance of the sort of charges that were made agdnst Mr. Thorogood and his wife. It was said that Mrs. Thorogood threw a stone at the head of the Hon. Gentleman opposite.—( A laugh.) Now what was_ the fact ? There was a procession that part of the country, on account of the suppression of slavery, and some of the people shook chains at those who had been unfa vourable to emancipation. Those, on the other hind, threw stones, one of which passed into the reom where Sir J. T. Tyrrell was sitting.—(Cries of " Hear," and laughter.) Now that was the whole foundation for the charge against Mrs. Thorogood, who (as we understood) was near the spot.—(Hear, hear.) It was also said that Thorogood was a violent, ill-tem pered man, and that he had quarrelled with his brother. —(.Hear, hear.) He understood that the Right Hononourabie Baronet, the Member for Oxford, visited him in gaol. He did not know what was the Right Honourable Baronet's object, but he knew that he did not announce himself as Sir R. Inglis, nor did Thorogood know until he was going away who had done him so great an honour. He was only intro duced as an illustrious stranger, who desired to maintain a perfect, an entire incog.—(Laughter.) He (Mr. D.) received the day before yesterday a letter from Mr. Thorogood, giving a most amusing account of his inter view with Sir Robert Inglis, and he would read to the House the dialogue that passed between these two illustrious persons. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman then read the letter, which stated that Sir Robert Inglis came to the door of his room and knocked, when Mr.Thorogood said " Come in,"where upon, said Mr. Thorogood, " the illustrious and mysterious stranger—(Laughter)—was ushered into the room by a turnkey ; he commenced by saying I am no friend of yours, but I hope no enemy—looking round the room he Baia a bird, and he said is that your bird—(Cheers and Laughter) —to which I answered, Yes! He then ques tioned me as to the state of my health, and asked if it was not good. I replied, No ! for that I had recently been suffering from rheumatism and pa ralysis, more particularly from rheumatism in my head. 'le said they were both different complaints arising from different causes. I said I thought not ; that they were all arising from the same cause, from stagnation produced by cold. He then observed that it was a good thing that I was allowed to have my wife backwards and forwards.—(Loud laughter.) She was in thi; room at the time. I said yes, and that I was thankfal for it. He asked if I had no other room ? I eaid no' Ile said it was a very good one. I said, y es , but it is very cold." The letter then proceeded to state that Srfr Robert Inglis bad inquired if he was confined by himself ? to which he replied yes ; and that Mr. 1 Thorogood then made some remarks upon the unmerci ful system of which he had been made the victim, and quoted various portions of scripture to shew that mercy was the duty of a Christian, and put it to his visitor whether he thought it was merciful to imprison him for the non-payment of ss. "He did not like the Scripture quotations," said the letter, and " I supposed he was a parson—(k6ud cheers and laughter)—as many of them had visited me." He then proceeded to complain that he did not like to be locked up at 9 o'clock every even ing, and likewise of the distinction which was made in the prison between the poor and the rich debtor. There were front rooms in the gaol which the rich debtors could procure for the payment of Ss. a-week, and that they could likewise remain in the yard every night until between ten and eleven o'clock, whilst he, as a poor debtor, was refused these privileges. After this the il lustrious stranger said Good day, and went away. Mr. Thorogood however, as he was going, requested to know his name, upon which he replied—" My name is Robert Inglis." Upon which Mr. Thorogood said he was glad to see him there, and he should like to have his opinion if the persons who were persecuting him were not unmerciful. Sir Robert Inglis said he knew his opinion, on which Mr. Thoregood said that perhaps he was not aware that he had given 11. towards building a Chapel of Ease on the voluntary principle, and that he considered his case as one of most cruel oppression, and that he would never pay towards the support of murder, rob bery, and idolatry, all of which could be proved against every Church Establishment. Sir Robert Inglis said that John Thorogood might give 1/. but that his house must pay 55., on which Mr. Therogood remarked that he had agreed to take his house, and had paid his rent and taxes, and had been entrusted to collect the taxes, which he had faithfully performed, and was proceeding, when Sir Robert Inglis said he did not think it right to discuss the question, but that it was the law—where upon Mr. Thorogood said that the law was th a t the tithes shoul be divided into four parts, one of which was to be appropriated towards the repairs of the church, but that the State priesthood bad embezzled the whole, and had thrown the burden of repairing the church upon the community, to which Sir R. Inglis said, " No, no, nor upon which Mr. Thorogood replied, " But I say, yes, yes, yes ;" and Sir Robert took his leave. He further stated that he had written to the Secretary of State requesting permission to occupy a room in the front of the gaol, and that although he believed Lord John Russell wished it the magistrates refused it, and that he bad subsequently been visited by the High Sheriff, to whom he made a similar request, for the use of a front room, but the gaoler had refused to let him have it, unless he paid twelve shillings a week for it.—(Hear, hear, hear.) le maintained that they had no right to question the dividual in this way.—( Hear, hear.) He knew it was said that the individual was a money-getting man, because a subscription had been entered into for him, vallieh amounted to between 8001. and 900/., which had been collected in small sums. Not one shilling, how ever;of that subscription had Mr. Thorogood touched, or would touch while he was in prison—not a shilling c;; it had been employed to obtain the rule, as Mr. Tho rogood was determined that the gaoler or any other person should not have any of it as a reward of their cruel treatment of him. He would ask Hon. Members whether they thought they would break the spirit of Mr. Thorogood by a persecution like the present ? If they did think so, they would find they were deceived when it was too late.—(Hear.) He knew not what the consciences of tile ecclesiastical authorities of Chelmsford consisted of when they pursued such a course, and he could not conceive how the Bishop of London could lay his head on his pillow with ease, and allow these persecutions to go on without taking any steps to put a stop to them. He believed that nothing would induce this individual to come out of gaol by pay ing that which in his own conscience he should not sanction. He (Mr. Duncombe) trusted that the House, as a Christian Legislature, would not allow that state of things to continue, and that Hon. Members would do their best to remedy the grievance, by laying their opinions at the foot of the Throne.—( Hear, hear.) Members might depend upon it that one act of just and righteous toleration would do more good than the incarceration of a thousand Thorogoods.—( Hear, hear.) It was the duty of the House, after the resolution it had come to last Session, as far as it was able, to ter minate this persecution and imprisonment, which was a scandal to the religion they professed, and a disgrace to the country in which they resided. The Hon. Mem :)er concluded by moving the address to her Majesty, or which he had given notice. Sir R. INGLIS took the liberty of rising early in the <iebJte, so that those Hon. Members who had heard the speech of the Hon. Member for Finsbury might hear his account of the interview. In consequence of se appeal made to him in a newspaper of great circu lation, in which it was stated that Mr. Thorogood's health was sinking, not fast indeed, but slowly and cer `ainly—in consequence of that appeal, he (Sir Robert Inglis; took measures to have brought 0 7 to town one who had had Mr. Thorogood la custody, and he satisfied himself that there was no danger to his health. He then saw an either appeal ; he took an opportunity of visiting the orison himself, and as well as he, not being a profes seonal man, could judge, his health was not suffering. (e a being shown into Mr. Thorogood he immediately " Mr. Thorogood, lam no friend of yours." He :id so that he might not be tempted to commit him atif, thinking that he was one of his friends. He added ?.bat he was not his enemy, for he hoped he was not the enemy of any man, but he told him distinctly that he s-as not one of his friends in the usual acceptation of ords under sach circumstances, in order that he might not be led to commit himself in any way. Tnat was the general substance of the visit. He did not think it ';ht to enter into any discussion with him, but, of nurse, be was obliged to allow him to talk, for he s suld trot stop him. The room in which he was con fined appeared to him a very good one for such a place, and he himself did not then complain of it. Thee, with respect to the Bishop of London. That Rev. Prelate had no more to do with the proceedings in the Ecelesiatetical Court than the Chief Justice of England Lad with any case brought before him, or perhaps the analogy would be better understood if he were to say nsat he had no more cognizance of the case in that Court than the Queen had of cases in the Bench. lie should leave to the Noble Lord the task of discus sing the question upon its merits, but having been so pointedly alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman he had thonsht it right, with the indulgence of the House, to make these few observations.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL had certainly no wish, any more than the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down, to en ter into the general question ; but with respect to the motion before the House, recommending the case of John Thorogood to the merciful consideration of the Crown, he thought a decisive answer to that mo tion was that it was not in the power of the Crown to discharge him from prison.—(Hear, hear.) No inter position of the Crown could release him from that im prisonment ; and it was not, therefore, competent for the llause to entertain the motion.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet who had just spoken was quite right like wise in saying that the Bishop of London had nothing IA do with the continuance of his imprisonment.--(He Ar, f, , ear.) At the same time as the question had been brought before the House, he would state that there were some parties, the authorities of the parish to whom, in fact, the sum was due as being part of the Church rates of the parish, who might interfere to procure the discharge of John Thorogood ; and for himself he must say he thought they would act very wisely in re leasing him.—(" Hear, hear, hear," from the Ministe r:alists.) Those who agreed with him in that sentiment would not, perhaps, agree with him in the grounds upon which he came to that conclusion. He ) thought that a very long imprisonment of persons who were actuated by conscientious feelings was of no use toward maintaining respect for those laws. Ano ther ground upon which he thought it would be very I expedient and perfectly safe to put an end to the im prisonment of John Thorogood was, that he consi dered that poor man, who no doubt was actuated by very conscientious feelings, had been entirely mistaken in the notion of the sympathy which his sufferings would create. It was supposed that the result would be that the Legislature would be obliged to put an end to the system of Church-rates. It appeared to him that the attempt to excite the sympathy of the public had entirely failed. He believed that there were a large portion of the people of this country at tached to the Established Church. There were many also who desired that there should be no establish ment, but of these the number was small who wished to see the Chureh-rates abolished by violence or resistance to the law. If there were any parties to the suit, as he believed there were, who had the power of relieving a worthy and honest man from his imprison ment, he thought they would find it advantageous to do so. Sir E. SUGDEN believed the Bishop of London had no power to release John Thorogood, and he was also of opinion that the Crown had no power to order his discharge, and therefore the motion must fall to the ground. He had always objected to the system of a lengthened period of imprisonment for contempt, and in the Court of Chancery it had been entirely done away with. Ho would suggest that a power be given to the Bishop of London to adjudicate in cases like the pre sent, and he believed that would answer the object of the Hon. Gentleman opposite. It appeared that John Thorogood had of his own accord incurred the penalty to which he was exposed ; but at the same time it was not desirable, in his opinion, all things con sidered, that his imprisonment should be continued. He thought, therefore, that any parties who might have power of effecting his liberation should now use that power, as it might be considered that the law had already been sufficiently vindicated. If any one were to die under the circumstances in which John Thorogood was placed, he thought it would become a very serious source of complaint against the law itself. He would again press on the Noble Lord the advantages of assimilating the law in cases of contempt in every Court to the law as it existed in the Court of Chan cery. He would recommend the Noble Lord himself to take the subject into his hands, and he would assure him it would be well worthy of his consideration. Mr. HUME said that it was very satisfactory to have heard the speeches of the Noble Lord, and the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) It was manifest what the direction of their feelings was on the subject ; and while they admitted that the individual had been legally confined they did not approve of the manner in which the law had been enforced on the occasion. He did not know how his Hon. Friend could have obtained an opinion more favourable to his views than he had done ; and though he had first been desirous that his Hon. Friend should have taken the sense of the House on his motion. The liberal sentiments expressed by the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman had al tered his opinion, and he would therefore recommend a different course to his Hon. Friend, from that which he had at first wished he should pursue. It had been said by some Hon. Members that the fate of John Thoro good had excited no sympathy throughout the country ; but he could assure those gentlemen that they were al together mistaken, as was proved by the number of pe titions which had been presented on the subject. He would conclude by expressing a hope that the Noble Lord would adopt the recommendation of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir E. Sugden), and give to all Courts the power of liberating parties imprisoned for contempt. Mr. G. VERNON defended the course taken by the Consistorial Court. He would admit that Thoro good might be a conscientious man ; but he knew of a parallel case in his neighbourhood, which led him to think that the resistance of such persons had its origin in a notion, that, by creating a great excitement, and taking the matter into the courts, the demand for Church-rates would become so odious, that it would be abandoned. In his neighbourhood a man refused to pay Ss. for that rate, and he (Mr. Vernon), believing that the object of the refusal was to provoke what might be looked upo❑ as persecution, and to make a parade of martyrdom, paid the money. The conse quence was, that the individual alluded to had never since made any difficulty about paying his rates.— (Hear, hear.) In the case of Thorogood, the church warden bad not the power to liberate him ; but it was in the power of his friends to do so, by taking the course which he (Mr. Vernon) bad taken in the pa rallel case. Mr. BAINES said that the Hon. Gentleman's view of the case differed from that taken by Sir S. Lushing ton. The payment of the .ss. 6d. now would not libe rate John Thorogood : if it would, there are thou sands who would gladly pay it.—( Hear.) Indeed, the Honourable Gentleman opposite, or any other person, who had a regard for the character of the Church would be glad to pay it. He (Mr. B.) was glad to see that there was a disposition to put a❑ end to these persecutions.—(Hear, hear.) Did not the Hon. Gentleman know that a great many Quakers had been liberated in that county who stood in the same situation as Thorogood did ? It had been said that it ,was only the Dissenters who had contributed to the funds that had been raised for Mr. Thorogood. Now, the fact was, that many Churchmen had subscribed to that fund, feeling strongly for his persecution. He (Mr. Baines) was astonished that the imprisonment of Mr. Thorogood had not been put an end to long ago. He had shown the spirit of a martyr on the subject, and he had no doubt, whatever course was pursued towards him, if he was liberated, it must be by the interposition of others, who were anxious to put an end to his sutler• ings, and not by his giving way in the course be had pursued. He believed that the sooner Mr. Thorogood was liberated the better it would be for the Church.— ( Hear, hear.) It remained for his Friend the Member for Finsbury to say whether he would take the sense of the House upon the subject ; but if he would allow him to give his advice, he would recommend him to withdraw his motion for the present, after what had taken place. The motion asked the Crown to do that which it had no power to do, namely, to violate the law of the land.—(Hear.) Sir ROBERT PEEL could not participate in the hope expressed by the Hon. Member for Leeds (Mr. B lines) that there would be an end of imprisonment for refusal to pay Church-rates on the ground of con science. It was impossible to distinguish whether such refusals arose from mere contumacy or conscience, and as it was also impossible to dive into the heart of man it was necessary to visit him who refused to obey the law, whether his disobedience arose from contumacy or conscience, with the penalties of the law.—(Hear.) If he (Sir R. Peel) purchased property in Scotland he would be called upon to contribute towards the main t, trance of a Church from which he dissented, and it would be extraordinary if he refused to do so, knowing, as he did, when he purchased the property, that among other charges upon it there was the charge of Church , rates. -(Hear.) If men were allowed to disobey the law upon the allegation that their consciences compelled them to do so, there would be a dissolution of the bonds of society.—(Hear, hear.) He would, however, state that while he gave that opinion upon the general prin ciple, yet it would give him great satisfaction to hear of the discharge of John Thorogood.—( Hear, bear.) The imprisonment which that individual had suffered was sufficient for the vindication of the law, and he thought the general interest of the Church would he promoted if he was discharged without being asked to make any concession of principle.—(Hear, hear.) But although he hoped that some means would be taken to terminate the imprisonment of John Thorogood without any con cession being required of him which he could not make, yet he was anxious to take the opportunity of stating, that if the same case arose again, of a refusal to pay Church-rates, whether that refusal arose from contu macy or conscience, he saw no alternative but that of enforcing the law, and subjecting the second John Tho rogood to the same punishment. — ( Cheers. ) Mr. AGLIONBY hoped that some means would be adopted, by which, without any further proceedings in the Legislature, John Thorogood would be free from imprisonment. John Thorogood must be libe rated u n d er a n y c ircumstances, and if his release could not be effected by any other means, he hoped an Act of Parliament would be brought in for that purpose. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that after the kind sympathy which the House had expressed for the un fortunate object of his motion, he thought he should best consult his interest by not pressing the motion to a division.—(Hear hear.) He would, therefore, ask the permission of the House to withdraw it. Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no objection to that particular motion being withdrawn, but if the several motions on the paper were brought on one after another and withdrawn, th e H ouse would not get into a Com• mittee of supply that night.—( Hear, hear, and laugh ter.) He, therefore, hoped if that motion was allowed to be withdrawn, no advantage would be taken of the Government.—(Hear, hear, hear.) ; The motion was then withdrawn. FEARGUS O'CONNOR. Mr. AGLIONBY postponed his motion relative to the petition of Feargus O'Connor until the first ways and means day next week. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Mr. HUME would not detain the House two mi nutes.--( Hear, hear.) He merely wished to call the attention of the House to the state of the Public Ac counts, and to the necessity of having them kept in all the public departments, on the plan alreadv'adopted in the Admiralty and Navy Pay Offices. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would, during the recess, endeavour, if possible, to carry out in every department that whi , 2ll had been carried out in the Navy, Admi ralty, and Pay-offices, for at present great inconvenience arose in consequence of the acc,uuts not being kept upon an uniform system. 1 DR. NPGILL. Mr. GOULBU RN had looked into the case of Dr. M'Gill since he mentioned it at an earlier period of the evening, arid was satisfied there was no pretence for withholding the salary. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re peated that the Government had merely acted on the faith of the declaration they made during the discussion, and he mentioned it was not their intention to con tinue the salary, should the office become vacant. SUPPLY. The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply. On the motion that an additional 2,000 men be raised for sea service for ten months. Mr. HUME said he had before stated his objec tion to an increased amount of estimates. He had not heard any reason why the estimates should be so largely increased. They had gone on gradually increasing the number of their seamen till in the year 1839 they had amounted to 34,000 ; in 1840 they amounted to 35,000, and now they were called upon to vote 37,000 men. He objected to that increase, because the British ❑avy was not applied to legitimate British purposes. They had sent a large fleet to the coast of Syria for the purpose of encouraging and fomenting the insurreetion in that country. He believed the best alliance they could form would be an alliance with the Constitutional Government of France, and he believed the alliance they had most to dread was an alliance with Russia, and yet he had seen with the greatest regret that the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department had encouraged that Government in its despotic proceedings. He had from time to time waited in the hope that returning commo❑ sense would have induced her Majesty's Government to give up that policy. The Noble Lord's erroneous policy had added two millions to the taxes within the last year. It had been stated that British agency had been employed to foment the insurrection in Syria, and it had been further alleged that England, in con cert with Russia and Austria, and to the exclusion of France, had entered into a treaty to compel Mehemet Ali to come to terms, and deliver up the fleet. Now he thought nothing ,would more tend to promote the ambitious views of Russia than such a course of policy, and he trusted they would hear from the Noble Lord (Palmerston) an assurance that such was not the case. He should certainly oppose an additional grant to the navy, until they had some explanation on the subject. Lord PALMERSTON said nothing could be more frank and straightforward than the conduct of the Hon. Member, for he had told him, both publicly and pri vately, for many months past, that the views he (Lord Palmerston) entertained were injurious to British inte rests, and had laboured to impress upo❑ him totally different views. Now, with respect to the views enter tained by the Hon. Member, he must say that they were precisely those which were calculated to promote the views of Russia (if indeed she entertained those selfish and ambitious views ascribed to her), and were those which she would be most anxious to dictate to any party. That course would place the Turkish em pire in such a state of danger, that she would be obliged to throw herself upon Russia for support. Such a course would certainly tend more to sacrifice British in terests, and endanger the peace of Europe, than any thing he (Lord Palmerston) meditated. He must pro test against the opinions of his Hon. Friend, as being totally opposed to the best interests of the coun try ; and he trusted they were not entertained by any parties who were able to carry them into execu tion. With respect to his foreign policy having added two millions to the taxes of the country, he would remind the Hen. Member that his own favourite mea sure of the reduction of the rate of postage and the state of the Canadas—(Hear, hear)—had contributed very materially to that increase. He believed the portion which could be laid to the charge of the navy was very small indeed ; the increase in that department arising principally from the necessity of laying in stores and placing the ordinary in an efficient state. With regard to the negotiations then pending between the great Powers of Europe, it would be exceedingly incon venient, and a very unprecedented course, to enter into any detail of them, and it would be seriously detrimen tal to the objects they had in view. When the nego tiations arrived at a fitting point he should not shrink from submitting them to the examination of Parliament, and he would convince his Hon. Friend that the anti- English feeling and objects which it was supposed he (Lord Palmerston) had in view had no existence what ever. With regard to Syria, British agency had no thing whatever to do with the recent insurrection there. It was entirely owing to the resistance which even the most oppressed were driven to oppose to tyranny, which had become absolutely intolerable.—(Hear.) He put it to the House whether, in the present state of the important, delicate, and complicated questions which were under discussion by the Five Powers, the questions of the Hon. Member were such as ought to be answered. Although the Five Powers were agreed upo❑ the main points, and although France had de clared her determination to maintain the integrity and independence of the Turkish empire, yet they differed on many minor points. Unless the House wished him, he should certainly decline, at the present stage of the negotiations, to enter into any details upon the subject. Slr. MILNE regretted that the Noble Lord had not given a more satisfactory answer to the somewhat irregular questions of the Hun. Member for Kilkenny. He wished the House had been assured that England was acting in concert with the Five Powers, as mach interest was excited on that point. He would support the vote, as he believed the exigencies of the country required the additional men. Mr. HUME was by no means satisfied with the explanation, and would divide the House if there were a sufficient number of Members present.—(A laugh.) He denied that the necessity for any increased vote arose from the change in the Post-office regulations, for, notwithstanding that change, an increase in the revenue bad taken place. Ho did not put the whole down to the account of the navy. He knew the great expense which Canada had caused. He had foretold this before the Government had adopted the revolu• tionary measures which they had thought proper to adopt toward 3 that country. The necessity, therefore, arose not from any deficiency in the Post-office, but from the increase in the establishments. As the Noble Lord had not denied that a convention had bee❑ entered into with the other Powers, leaving out the French, he took it for granted that such was the case, and deeply did he regret it. The Noble Lord should well consider be fore venturing on the adoption of any steps calculated to lessen the terms of amity between this country and France. Egypt had had possession of Syria for eight years, and, therefore, he thought he was entitled to say that the Syrians were at present in a state of insurrection. He had seen the British Government charged with inciting the insurrection ; he had seen the fact mentioned in the Morning Post— (A laugh). No matter where it was, it was so asserted, and he was glad to bear it contradicted, because, if such had been the case, he should have considered it disgrace ful to the British Government. Lord J. RUSSELL would not go at any length into the discussion, and in the few words which he was about to address to the House, his Hon. Friend had the advantage of him, for he had not, like his Hon. Friend, read the Morning Post.—(A laugh.) With regard to the general question of the policy in the East, he could only repeat what he had said at the beginning of the session. His Hon. Friend had said that this country had had nothing to do but to allow amicable relations to have been established between the two portions of the Turkish empire, and that it was only owing to our in terference that such an amicable settlement had been prevented. Now, so far was this from being the case, that the real fact was, that a vassal of great strength and po wer was attempt i ng to i mpose terms on h i s Sovereign, and expecting to get those terms through the weakness of that Sovereign. Now what would have been the result if the Five Powers had not interfered ? The result would undoubtedly have been, what it had been before, that the Sultan would have owed his safety solely to the p ower o f R uss i a ; t h at, consequent l y, t h e influence of Russia at Constantinople would have been so great as to excite the jealousy of the other Powers, and the gene ra l p eace cou ld not have b een preserve d . His Hon. Friend was mistaken in his views on this subject, and he was also mistaken as to the manner in which our interference had commenced. Its first com mencement was by the collective note of the Five Powers, and by the request to the Sultan not to adopt any measures, except in conformity with the wishes of those Powers. His Hon. Friend had referred to France, and as his Noble Friend had said, no doubt having the same object in view as the other Powers—( Hear)—there had been some little difference of opinion as to the means by which that object could be attained. But he spoke the sentiments of his Hon. Friend and of the whole Government when he said that they set as high a value as the Hon. Gentleman or any other man could possibly do on the keeping up of our amicable relations with France—Cheers)—which he trusted would long endure.—(Loud cheers.) There was no nation with whom it was more essentially necessary that we should cultivate amicable relations than with F ra nce—(Cheers)—and there was no nation with which it was more the interest of France to preserve amicable relations than with ourselves, and it was for the advan tage of the two nations that they should indulge in no r i va l ry ex cept the peaceful rivalry of commerce. The Honourable Member had stated that it was owing to British interferenc e that the insurrection had taken i a n s s the u rre c H t o o n n H. in Sy s e n y t r l i e a m a n everyh a d y s e a a i d r ct to the Porte, rte, and that there btriphal pl d ace et thereinnbadS 7had three bae. eb i n n e s eNs u nuo r ba r wj e n: ctions in Syria while it had been subject to Mehemet Ali, it would not, he thought, re quire a great deal of British or any other interference to get up an insurrection in such a country, of which, ac cording to the Hon. Gentleman, insurrection appeared to be the ordinary state. The fact was, he believed, j that Mehemet Ali had inflicted grievous oppression on THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, JULY 25, IP4O. Syria, and it was no wonder if insurrection had been the consequence. Mr. HUME said that Syria under Mehemet Ali had enjoyed a state of peace unknown before. The Noble Lord was incorrect in stating that Mehemet Ali had pro posed terms derogatory to the Sultan. Those terms had been published, and Ismael Pacha, the Minister to the Porte, who would have acceded to them, protested against foreign interference, and had only been overawed by Lord Ponsonby. So far were those terms from weak ening the Porte that Mehemet Ali offered to deliver the fleet and all his possessions except Syria and Egypt, to the Porte, and pledged himself to carry those condi dons into effect under the superintendence of the British and French Governments. If the Noble Lord's col leagues were net better informed than be appeared to be on those subjects, then in the Cabinet they must be miserably ignorant of the real state of affairs in the East. Lord INGESTRIE said that having a few years since gone through the whole of Syria, he could state that the government of M e h emet Ali i n t h at coun t r y was of the most grinding disposition in existence. He wished to know whether any new ships would be placed in commission, and to what amount ? Mr. MORE O'FE RRAL had stated at the com mencement of the Session that the number of men were not in proportion to the number of commissions, and that it was the intention of the Government to pay off some of the ships, or, if their services should be required, to apply for an additional number of men, and accord ingly now they came down for this vote. Captain PECHELL. would suggest t h e expe di ency of returning to the former system of permitting seamen to enjoy their former pensions while in the service. The consequence of the present system was, that these seamen were driven either into the merchant service or into the service of foreign P owers, where they were allowed to retain their pensions. He implored them to revise the present system, and thus bring forward some of the best seamen in her Maje s t y ' s serv i ce . C apta i n Napier had had the pension restored to him, of which heha w d ou b id ee b n e deprived,pursued ar towds th e seamen . and he h o p e d th e same prin ciple Sir T. COCHRANE could not agree with the Hon. and Gallant Officer. By giving a pension to a man they to a certain degree obtain a comman d over his services, and every pensioned m an th e y took into the service would drive another man out of it, whose set vices they could not command in an emergency, and the effect would consequently be to keep young men out of the service. Captain PEC HELL said he was sorry the Gallant Officer differed from him. He believel that his only object was to benefit the service. He had written a very able work on the subject, the plans of which, if carried out, would confer great benefit. But on this point he differed from him, and he thought it unad visable to hold out inducements to those men to enter foreign service, while such a difficulty existed to pro cure men for our own ships. Admiral ADAM thought these men were most excellently and properly employed in navigating the merchant marine. In time of war they would be secure of their services, and as long as they continued on board of the merchant vessels, the merchant sea men would see that owing to their having been in the service they were receiving double pay, and the bene fits to be derived from this were indiscribable. Sir T. TROUBRIDGE wished to observe, that there were not by any means, as had been asserted, 2,000 pensioners who could be called into service. He believed that 300 or :350 was the utmost number which would be found eligible. Captain GORDON wished the Admiralty would particularly attend to the state of the force in the Me diteranean, which was now, he believed, without a full complement of men. It was the more necessary that that part of the service should be attended to, as the French vessels in the Mediterranean were at present in the most efficient condition. Admiral ADAM could assure his Gallant Friend that the British ships in the Mediterranean had at pre sent their full complement. He did not mean to deny the efficiency of the French fleet ; and he would admit that some of our ships in the Mediterranean were smaller than theirs, but they were fully as well equipped, and he had no doubt but they would always be found fit to support the honour and dignity of the country. On the next vote being put for the sum of 101,748/. to defray the charges of the wages of the 2,000 addi tional men for ten months. Captain PECHELL complained of the insufficient provision made at present for mates, who were frequently left for fifteen or sixteen years, and in some cases for a longer period, without any advancement. Sir THOMAS COCHRANE also complained of the hardships which the cases of those parties involved. Mr. MORE O'FORRALL admitted that there might be cases of hardship in some of the instances referred to, but there were similar cases in every pro fession. Besides, the grievances of those parties were often exaggerated, as they did not in most cases remain mates during the period that was supposed, but had retired from the service. Captain GORDON said that many of them had certainly retired from the service, but they bad done so because it offered them no prospect of advancement. Lord IN GESTRIE thought that the case of those parties was one of great hardship. The fact was that their not being advanced arose from the want of family connections. He would mention a case of peculiar hardship. It was the case of an officer who had dis tinguished himself in a long service. He had been wounded, and it was expected that, as he was under the patronage of a late Gallant Admiral, his promotion was secure. But upon the death of that Gallant Admiral his prospects were closed, and he was laid aside ; whereas the brother of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton, being a younger officer, obtained the promotio n to which the person he alluded to was better entitled. It was painful to him to speak of the relatives of Hon. Members ; but he thought it right to allude to this case, as showing in what way length of service was overlooked, for the sake of serving particular interests. Captain PECHELL thought it was quite impos sible to make out a real case of grievance in the mole of promotion practised at pr esen t. If the Admiral in the Mediterranean sent home despatches complaining of the appointment of inefficient officers to the ships under his command, then there would be (what there was not at present) a parallel to the state of things com plained of by Admiral Collingvvood when he commanded in that station. All the officers who had been promoted at the Coronation were old officers, and no injustice or impartiality could be complained of. Mr. II UME said that he might object to the present rote as much as to the former one ; but there was included in it the sum of 39,000/., which was voted at the recommendation of the Commissioners, for the augmentation of the wages of mates and medical officers ; and of that vote he must say, that he thought the addition to the pay of those officers was only a small part of the justice to which they were entitled. Indeed in this vote he did not complain of one of the items. But he did complain of the vicious system of promotion. The Noble Lord opposite (Lord Ingestrie) had no right to complain of the system, which had been so advantageous to himself. He did not blame the Noble Lord for obtaining as rapid promotion as he could. It was only what any man might do. But, in fact, the whole system was bad. Promotion was altogether a matter of favour, instead of being regulated, as it ought to be, by service and merit. A youngster was often put in command of ships over the head of a mate, who might be the oldest and best man in the ship.---(Hear, hear.) In 1837, he exposed th Lo e r s d e A matters itho r in that p ,s brother, o th er, House, wh o andwas he put in stated t he the case command of a ship, over the heads of three officers who had been lieutenants before Captain Spencer left school. —( Hear, hear.) Those who complained of such hard ships ought to assist in altering the whole system. He approved of the alteration that had been made in the increase of the pay of the mates, but it did not strike at the root of the evil. An item of 341,550/., and another of 312,0401. were agreed to, but we could not hear the purposes. I 1.8,000/, was voted for stores for ten months. On the motion that 21,6001. be granted for the acce lerated conveyance of her Majesty's mails to Alexandria for seven months, Mr. D. DAMES objected to the present mode of conveying the mails in the Mediterranean by contract with the owners of private steam-vessels. It would be vastly better for the public service if armed steam-boats under the command of efficient officers were employed for the purpose. When he was recently in the Mbditerranean, he saw its waters covered with foreign steam -ships, and he heard it said that that sea was becoming what it ought to be— e Fri nch basin. He had already pressed this subject upon the G overnment, an d b ecalled upon all who were connected with I n di a, to as sist him ; for the ra p idit y of our commu n i cat i on w i t h a ll the East wo uld be g reatl y increased b y t h e em to o fficers of h er Ma j esty's Nav y . This of e ffi cient ve ssels, com manded experien ce This had b een recommen d e d to the Govern ment b y t he highest offi cers at present i n the Mediterra nean ; an d if the suggestio ns were ac t e d upon, it wo uld create an array of armed steam-vessels, w hich, in the event of a rupture with our immediate neighbour, or our Northern Ally, would form the best defiance of our own coasts. posed, wi t h out any additional com plement of men. He belie ve d h e might state t h a t all Ambassadors , Consuls, and commer c i a l men were anx ious that such a p lan sh ould be adopt e d. He believed t h a t steamers of 200- horse power w ou ld b e fully competen t to carry out all he pro. The CHANCELLOR of the E XCHEQUER said he w as not t h ere to defend the policy of France with re spect to its navy ; it had always been different from that of England, but he was there to defend the course that had been pursued by thi s c ountry. He be lieved the s ound policy for England to pursue was to secure the proper transmission of letters and communications, and to leave the transfer of passengers from one part of the world to the other to commercial enterprise and speculation. All the great lines of communication had not been neglected by the Government ; and with respect to the complaints of the Hon. Member as to vessels in the Mediterranean, it was to be remembered that the ports there were small compared with the great lines of communication to other parts of the world. He believed that the plan proposed to be adopted by the Government would be far more bene ficial to passengers than any Government establishment. Mr. GOULBURN thought the Government were bound to have a sufficient naval force to meet any emer gency that might take place. Capt. PL t;HELL considered the proposition of the Hon. Member well worthy the attention of the house, and he could no: see any reason for withholding the papers that had been referred to by him. Mr. MORE O'FE RR AL I, said, that so far from the defence of the country being diminished by the contracts that had been entered into by the Government, it had been increased ; and looking at the subject in an economical point of view, all the contracts that had been entered into were at a lower rate than they could have been accom plished at by vessels in the Queen's service. Lord ING EST RIE said this was a subject of the very greatest importance. It would be very well to carry on this service by means of the commercial marine if they were always sure of remaining in a state of peace. But in the event of a war breaking out there could be no doubt of its being mainly conducted by steam navigation. By means of that power any Power with whom we might be at war would do all they could to intercept our large commercial marine upon our own shores, and it would be absolutely necessary that we should have plenty of armed steamers ready at all times to meet them—(Hear)—and if they employed only the commercial marine in the packet service, they would lose an opiiortanity of providing them. It was also of much importance that we should have a means of speedy communication with our Ministers abroad, and that could only be done by steamers, which ought to be commanded by naval officers, in order to make them acquainted with that branch of the profession. The con tract system might be cheaper annually at present, but at the end of the contract they had no ships remaining • , so that in the end it would be dearer. He thought the plan of his Hon. and Gallant Friend, the Member for Porter lington, was deserving the attention of the Government. Captain GORDON thought the statement of the Se cretary to the Admiralty was very satisfactory.—(Hear, hoar.) It was a most important question, and he was very glad that the Admiralty had made contracts of such a nature as to ensure that the vessels to be stied in the packet service would be made so strong and commodious as to allow of their being used in the naval service. So large a number of steam vessels were being built by fo reigners, that he was most happy that these packets would be built so as to render them almost at once fit to be en tered into the naval force of the country. Mr. IRVING said he was deeply and immediately interested in a cuntract with the Government to carry the mails to the West India Islands, Cuba, Vera Cruz, New York, and Halifax—that service was to be performed by fourteen steam-ships of 1,400 tons and 400 horse power each; they were to be armed and commanded by Lieutenants of the Navy -( Hear)—they were to bear the Post-office Flag, and to be treated by foreign nations on the same footing as the present Packet Service.—(Hear.) The motion was then agreed to. The sum of 3,6821. was then voted for defraying the half-pay of Naval and Marine Officers. A grant of 171,3711. was then proposed for defraying the expenses of the disembodied militia. Mr. HUM E said upwards of thirty millions had been spent upon the militia since the peace—it was a useless, an expensive, and an oppressive vote. The Government pledged themselves last year to bring an improved system forward during the present Session, but they had failed in doing so. Believing this money had not, and did not, con tribute to the purpose for which the force was established, he must press upon the Right Hon. Gentleman to say whether they intended to take any steps to render the force more efficient. Mr. NI ACAUL AY said a gradual reduction was taking place, and the force would be put on as good a footing as possible, but he did not thi n k i t a d v i sa bl e to enter into any general plan till after the census had been taken. Colonel T. WOOD could not remain silent when he heard it proposed to do away with the militia. It was a most constitutional force. Before the breaking out of the seven years' war—(A laugh) —this country was obliged to send over to Germany in order to get soldiers to protect eur shores. That was felt to be a great disgrace, and then Lord Chatham introduced the militia. It was a force which might be rendered efficient for a very small sum. Mr. HUM E really did not remember the breaking out of the seven years' war—(A laugh)—but he knew they were called upon to pay a very large sum for a very in efficient force. A lamer excuse than the one given by the Right Hon. Gentleman he had never heard given; he would certainly expect more from him next year. The vote was then agreed to. MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES. On the vote that 28,8001. be granted for the purchase of property for the British Museum being read, Captain PE CHE LL begged to call the attention of the Committee to the expediency of opening Cardinal \Volsey's Hall, and the State Apartments at Hampton Court, which contained some very valuable paintings, to the public.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. R. GORDON said these apartments were at pre sent undergoing repair, and as soon as these repairs were completed, they would be thrown open to the public. Mr. HUME thought the Government ought to throw open Richmond and Rev► Parks more fully to the public. He would throw that out as a suggestion for its con sideration. The vote was then agreed to, as was also a sum of 13,0001., for laying out the area of Trafalgar-square. The next vote for 2,0001., for building a new Post.offica at Aberdeen, was, after a few words from Mr. Goulburn and Mr. Gordon, agreed to. On the vote for 2,5301. 10s., to purchase pictures for the National Gallery, Mr. HUME wished to know on whose taste and judg ment these pictures were purchased. If the trustees, he thought they should publish a statement of their proceedings. Sir R. PEEL thought it was a great advantage, that these questions should be put in the House of Commons. With respect to pictures of the highest class, their value was always perfectly well known to connoiseurs and artists. In the collection from which these purchases had baen made, there had only been three pictures, of which the trustees had recommended the purchase. These were two Murillos and a Guido. For one of the Murillos, " The Good Shepherd," they had recommended the Treasury to empower them to make an offer of 2,500 guineas. This offer had been refused, and the picture had subsequently been sold by auction for 3,000 guineas. For the second Murillo they had also been empowered to offer 2,500 guineas Some misunderstanding had arisen regarding the picture, and Lord Ashburton, one of the trustees, had subsequently purchased it for his own collection for 2,300 guineas, but he had subsequently most handshands oely ceded it to the National Gallery for the price whi m ca he himself had paid for it.—(Cheers.) With regard to the Guido, he was convinced that if that were exposed to public sale to-morrow, it would fetch more than double what the National Gallery had given for it. Mr. HUME said what he wanted to know was, how these facts could have been ascertained if the Right lion. Gentlemen had not been present ? Sir R. PEEL—By moving for the correspondence. Mr. HUME said that was just what he wanted to as certain, whether there was any correspondence existing on the subject of the purchase of pictures which could be moved for ? Sir R. PEEL—Yes. Mr. HUME was glad to And that these purchases were not made except upon the recommendation of competent Sir R. PEEL said, all these things were matter of record, but he suggested to the Hon. Member the pro priety of not asking for any disclosures until after the pur chases were made. Mr. HUME said that such had never been his in tention. Sir DE LACY EVANS wished to know, as they were improving Trafalgar-square, whether it was in tended to make any alteration or improvement in the National Gallery? Sir R. PEEL said that when the Gallery was erected, the House was in an economical fit. It was for the Chan. cellor of the Exchequer to say if he would recommend that it should be pulled down, and a building erected worthy of the arts. _ _ Mr. EWA RT thought that as the Royal Academy had rooms rent tree in the National Gallery, they ought on certain days to open their exhibition gratuitously to the public. Mr. HUME denied that the House had been in an eco nomical fit at the time the National Gallery was built. 48,0001. had been proposed, and he had recommended that the sum should be doubled, 76,0001. had been voted, and it had been suggested that the front should be brick ; on his suggestion the Right Honourable Baronet had penned a note to Lord Grey, recommending It should be of stone, which would cost 10,0001. more. Ultimately the building had cost 96,000/., and the reason why it was not a fit and proper one was, that competition had not been allowed.—(Cheers.) The Royal Academy occupied one half of it, and although they were receiving a benefit from the public equal to 3,000/. a year, they were the only public body that refused to foster the growing taste for the arts among the people. He did not know more illiberal men in promoting the arts than that Academy. who should make that their first object. Mr. HA VVES differed from the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Ila did not know a body which had done more for the arts than the Royal Society. It should also be remembered that the public did not contribute anything to the Academy. The only sums its members received were derived from the exhibition of their own paintings, and those sums were exclusively devoted to the progress of art in this country. No body had done more for art, and it was entitled, in his opinion, to the gratitude of the Eng lish people. _ . Mr. E WART did not think the Academy was entitled to all the praises of the Hon. Member. The Academy did not exhibit their own paintings merely, and they did not, as the Hon. Gentleman supposed, spend all the money they received in the promotion of the arts. Sir R. PEEL did not think that was the time for dis cussing the merits of the Royal Academy ; such a course Iwould lead to the total derangement of public business. It was not fair to create a prejudice against the Academy on a matter unconnected with its proceedings. The Academy did not, as the Hon. Member stated, exhibit any paintings but those of its Members ; and he was 'monocled that there could not be found a body in any country who stood higher than those gentlemen. After a few words from Mr. E. TENNENT and Mr. H UM E, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that that was not the time for discussing the question on which Hon. Gentlemen had entered. On the motion that 11,5001. be granted for the law ex penses of the Act of Parliament for carrying into effect the navigation of the river Shannon, Mr. G 0 ULBURN said that the expenses for one year of carrying into effect a single Act of Parliament was nearly equal to the whole legal expenses of the country for that period, which was only 14,0001. He could not agree to the vote without some explanation. Mr. GORDON said that the charge excited the atten tion of the Treasury, and on inquiry it was found that the expense had been incurred in the number of valuations (1,500), of conveyances (1,000), and of various investiga tions and purchases. How great those expenses were might be understood from the fact that on a railway of only five miles in length the law expenses amounted to six thou sand pounds. In the present case, the improvements would extend over two hundred miles, and were to be ef fected with the expenditure of 600,000/., and all the law expenses were now at an end. Mr. EMERSON TENNENT said that the law business of this Commission ought properly to have fallen into the }sands of the ordinary solicitor to the Board of Works ; but the fact was, a new office was created for Mr. Barrington, the solicitor of Mr. Spring Rice. now Lord Monteagle—( Hear, hear, hear)—and the House was now in consequence called upon to vote this extra vagant sum of 11.0001.—( Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had never witnessed anything more unjust than the course taken by the Hon. Gentleman in the absence of the par ties whom he accused.—( Hear, hear, hoar.) He was surprised that the Hon. Gentleman suffered himself to be led so far by his prejudice as to make the accusation.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) He (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) would not so far forget himself as to use language for which he might afterwards be sorry, but he must give a distinct denial to the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—( Cheers.) Mr. Barrington had been em ployed upon the subject of the Bill from the very first ; and as he was acquainted with all the details connected with it, the Commissioners considered him the fittest per son to be employed —( Hear, hear.) If there was any further information necessary on the subject he would be happy to afford it. Mr. HUME wished to know if these expenses had been actually incurred. He was not quite satisfied, and wished some further information should be given. Mr. E. TENNENT said the whole sum out of pocket which the Right lion. Gentleman had shown was 250/., while they were called upon to vote 11,5001. into Mr. Bar rington's pocket. He had not said one word against Mr. Barrington's personal character, for whom no one enter tained a higher respect. Colonel SIBTHORP thought all these mis.ellaneous estimates ought to be referred to a Select Committee, and he had the authority of the Hon. Member for Windsor, who, while he was waiting for office—( A laugh)—had re commended that course. If no one on his side of the House of more experience would do so, he would cer tainly move to refer these estimates to a Select Committee. ... Mr. HUME said a pledge had been given that no new appointment of a solicitor would be made after Mr. Stuart; it certainly required explanation how Mr. Barring ton had received such large sums of money. Mr. F. FRENCH said before the Shannon could be improved, it was necessary to remove certain weirs, for which courts were held all along the river, and so the ex pense had been incurred. It was not true that there had been any permanent appointment. Mr. Barrington had only been employed nine or ten months. Mr. G OUL gURN said such a large expenditure in so short a time, naturally called forth inquiry. He thought when so much legal business was to be performed the Go vernment ought to have given a salary to the Solicitor of the Board of Works; it would not then have been so expensive. Mr. M. O'FE RRAL L said they could not have em ployed Mr. Stuart, the Solicitor of the Board of Works, on the Shannon Commission ; they must have paid him for such labour, of course ; the bill of costs would not be paid until they had undergone the usual revision of a Master in Chancery. Sir R. PEEL said, when they paid a Board and a Se cretary or a Solicitor, they had a perfect right to all their time, and if any new works were entered upon, they had a perfect right to throw any additional labour they could do upon their shoulders. Lord MORPETH agreed with the Right Hon. Gen tleman, but in this case the Board of Works had not been entrusted with the improvement of the Shannon. One Hon. Gentleman only of the Board was named in the Commission. Capt. BOLDERO said last year he had designated the improvement of the Shannon a job ; and lie had seen no rea son to alter his opinion. He knew that it was estimated that the expense of the improvements would be 300,0001., one half to be paid by the Parliament and one half by the counties. I ken this sum of 11,0001. ought either to come out of the 300,0001., or at all events the expense ought to be halved. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON proposed that they should take a grant upon account of this Bill. He moved that the grar.t be reduced to 5,000/. Lord M 0 RPE TH—The expenses were reasonable, con sidering the magnitude of the inquiries —3OO records had been made up, and upwards of 1,000 leases executed, &c., and as all the items would undergo the strictest revision by a Master in Chancery, the Committee, he therefore hoped, would not agree to reduce the grant. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The House divided, when there appeared— For the motion 5B For the amendment 26 Majority —32 The next rote - 354,750[. for defraying the expenses of special and civil services in Canada was, after a few words from Mr. HUME, agreed to. 173,4421. for defraying the expenses of the expedition to China. Mr. GOULBURN thought that the sum asked was extremely inadequate, and would barely pay the tonnage of the transports of the troops from India to China. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said according to a letter he had lately received from India, the expenses of the shipping taken up amounted to nearly 100,0001. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was afraid that the estimate at present must be extremely un certain. The estimate he had laid upon the table was framed from confidential communications he had received from Lord Auckland, and these were calculated up to a certain time. Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said the only question the Chancellor of the Exchequer could decide on was, how to frame the estimate for this year. The estimate sent home of the probable expence he believed to be nearly correct. The Governor-General was instructed to keep a separate account of the extraordinary expense incurred by the Chinese war, and transmit it to the Homc Government. It was true a large amount had been incurred for tonnage, but the estimate was the whol2 sum which the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought it his duty to ask from Parliament. In answer to a question from Mr. GOULBURN, Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said the ordinary expenses would be charged to the country. Colonel SIBTH ORP said it was clear from the state ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman this was not the i only expense which Parliament would be called upon to defray. Mr. GOULBURN said the capture of Java had occa sioned a much greater expense, and it was clear this sum was only on account.—The vote was then agreed to. The next vote of 10,530/. for allowance and compensa tion to persons formerly employed in the public service, was agreed to without observation. On the next vote of 10,0001. for cleaning, arranging, and binding the public records, Mr. HUMS said he thought the records should be collected instead of being scattered about, as they now were. Colonel SIBT HO R P said he believed they were chiefly used to wrap up sugar candy in the public streets. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he believed great public good would result from the labours of the Com mission.—The vote was then agreed to. EDUCATION. On the vote of 5,000/. being proposed for the purpose of public education, Mr. GOULBURN said that although he admitted that the arrangements which had been recently made known respecting the inspection of the schools was a great im provement, and had removed one of the objections which he had made last year, and although on another point the necessity of submitting to Parliament an account of what might be done was also a great improvement, at the same time he felt it his duty to state that he still retained his original objection to the intrusting the regulation of the whole education of the country to lay Commissioners, and in a question so deeply involving the interest of the community, he thought it more fitting that these regula tions should be made by an Act of the Legislature rather than that the power of making them should be vested in a Board constituted by the Members of the Government. But he would not enter now into any discussion on these points. He would merely now state that he reserved to himself the full liberty of making hereafter any objections he might choose, both as to the constitution of the Board, and as to the propriety of making this the subject of dis tinct legislation. Mr. lIUME was so anxious for the furtherance of edu cation, that, although he protested against the claims put forward by the clergy to the inspection of education, yet he did not blame the Government for the arrangement they had entered into with the Archbishop of Canterbury_ He hoped the Noble Lord would next year lay before the [louse a complete report of the number of schools, and of the system of education pursued in them. Lord J. RUSSELL said the Right Hon. Gentleman' was mistaken in supposing that the Board claimed to them selves the direction of the entire education of the country. If such had been the case he would admit it would have been a fit subject for legislation ; but all they claimed was that those schools which applied for a grant of money should submit to inspection by the inspectors appointed by the Board. In the first place an objection had been taken _ . to the appointment of inspectors of religious education by lay authority ; that objection had been met by confining the duty of inspector to matters of education not of a religious nature, and to that it was objected that religion, the most important matter of all, was entirely neglected in the system of inspection. He had the satisfaction of stating that ar rangements had been entered into with the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, that no inspectors should be appointed to schools in connexion with the Church of England, in their respective provinces, without their con currence ; and the Archbishops had agreed that the sys tem of inspection should extend to the whole matter of instruction, including religious instruction. There was a deficiency in the quantity of education, and a still greater deficiency in the quality of it ; and in saying this he mad© no exception either in favour of the schools in connection with the Church, of those in connection with Dissenters, or of those in connection with neither. He trusted that by the system of inspection, a great improvement would be introduced in this important point, as the inspectors would be qualified persona of a respectable character, and he hoped that, by their endeavours, a better system of educa tion would be introduced. Whether they should in conse quence have to ask for a larger grant or not, he thought that this subject, important at present, most important as regarded the welfare of future generations, was one well deserving of, and which he trusted would receive, the greatest attention. Mr. LANGbA LE said, that as it appeared the Catho. lies were not [t o receive any benefit from this grant, he . hoped they would be relieved from the odium of having revived any part of it, and from the gross attacks to which both themselves and their religion had been sub jected in consequence.—(Cheers.) Any participation which they might have had in it was so paltry that he thought it much better they should be excluded altoge ther. There were in the metropolis 100,000 poor Ro man Catholics destitute of education, and, not being con nected with any parish, utterly destitute and unable, in many instances, to obtain support. By the system now adopted these poor people were deprived of the means o f giving any religion to their children. The consequen ce was, the gaols were filled with them, and oven then they were deprived of the means of instruction. It was owing to the neglect of their education that they thus became the EVENING EDITION, inmates of gaols. No assistance was afforded them fre? any public grant, and be should be ashamed of himself if , when he saw the statements made, which were promalgatel with regard to that class finding their way into every Pe in the kingdom, if he did no t draw the attention o f the House to the destitute condition of that unfortunate clog; It was a necessary consequence of their being debarred from education. In the last Session of Parliament, a proposition which he made for the giving a salary to the Catholic clergyman attending the gaol, although agreed to in this House, was negatived in another place. A memorial had been presented foi permission to the 1 0 ' man Catholic clergymen to attend the gaols, and that wall, refused. Thus, at the same time that yo u denied this class e' your fellow.subjects the education which might save them from the gaols, you refuse to allow them religious instrue; tion when there.—( Hear, hear.) Could any principle 01 Christianity be reconciled to such conduct as this?--- (Hear, hear.) It was said, indeed, that the priest migh t visit any of the prisoners who should ask for his a dvice. But was it to be expected that such persons would, in many cases, ask for that advice ? As the Roman Catholic s were excluded from this grant, and as they formed so large a mass of the poorest population, he thought that he had $ right to make those remarks.—( Hear, hear.) As the grant was to be confined to the Protestant population, lie thought it was perfectly right that the Protestant clergy should have the superintendence of its administration, and he only regretted that it was so small.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. ROCHE concurred in the observations made 11 the Hon. Member for tinaresborough. Mr. BAINES expressed his satisfaction with the veil just and proper remarks made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. The House had heard much of Church destitution and parish destitution, but they had now beardof real destituti o n i n th e case o f th e R oman C a tholic poor.—( Hear, hear.) He begged to ask whether the schools of the Dissenters would be under the control of the inspectors appointed by the Bishops of the Establishe d Church ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that the inspectors, on w hose appointment the Bishops would have a veto, were intended only to inspect the schools in connexion with the Esta blished Church ; but they mi g ht a l so i ns p ec t those ot Dis3enters, when no objection was made to their doing so. There would, however, be other inspectors for the schools generally. After a few words from Mr. GILL ON and Lord SA NDON, the vote was agreed to. Sir R. PEEL suggested that the Chairman should noW report progress. Mr. BE R NAL said that there were but two more voteb and they would not occupy long. On the vote of 5,4181. for the expenses of the Londou University, Mr. GOULBURN objected to the expenditure and t 0 the management of the institution. Sir R. PE EL would not oppose the vote at present, b ut he would make some remarks on the bringing up of th e Report, which ho trusted would not be until Monday. Mr. HUME said that on the bringing up of the Rope he would expose the whole of this j o b.—(H ear , h ea r, an laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was premature I ° judge of the advantage derived from this expenditure 0 present. To judge of the future efficiency of the institg' don, was like judging of the future efficiency of a newil launched ship, from the smallness of her crew in the fir° instance.—( Hear.) After a few words from Mr. GLADSTONE, the veto was agreed to. On the vote of 5,0001. for a Hall in Edinburgh for the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, Mr. GILLON objected to the vote being proceed ed with at this late hour (quarter past one). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that this was the last vote, a n d th e G ent l emen wou ld have an opportunity of speaking upon it on bringing O l e the Report. If the vote were postponed the whole of th estimates must stand over. Mr. ROBERT STEUART supported the grant. After a few worth from Mr. HUME and Mr. HAwe h the Committee divided, when there appeared— For the ♦ote 3B Against it l4 Majority —24 The house resumed and the Report was ordered to be brought up on Monday next. The Attorneys and Solicitors (Ireland) Bill was read 6 second time. The Metropolis Improvement Bill want through a Cog' mittee. The Roscommon Town Land s Bill was rea d a sea° a time. The Municipal Dist r i c t s (I re l an d) Bill went throug h i Committee. The Insolvent Debtors (India) Bill went through Committee. i The Report on the Fisheries Bill was brought up, a)/ ordered to be read a third time to-morrow (this day). , The Affirmation Bill was read a third time and passe d ' Adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'Clock. THE QUEEN.—There could not have be e 1 chosen a moment more fitting and favourable than the pr es :: el2 for the publication of a full and authentic memoir of " Victoria, from her Birth to her Bridal ;" and the work whit „ has just made its appearance under this title a ns w ers rnos,. ba "., 3 tr t pily to the above description. We can s c arc e ly be !nista" - i d tracing, throughout its graceful and i n te res ti ng pa ge s, the n, of a lady - who has recently di s ti ngu i s h e d h erse lf i s our litersoi ture, as a writer peculiarly qualified for the delicate office a doing justice to the pure and bright career of our yo° - 0 ? Queen. Nevertheless, the most attractive and popular p‘'.; ' the work are u n d ou bt e dl y t h ose d el i ghtful personal rerain.sl; cences of the Queen's infancy and girlhood, which have b i , ee p i l furnished unde r h er own hand and seal, by the accompli s " - authoress of Thaddeus of Warsaw." These original let t e r- of Miss Jane Porter would alone be of sufficient value and 1 ; terest to claim an extensive circulation for the work, even if subject were not one to command universal attention. EFFECTS OF HEAT.-The irritation an.. i n o flammation frequently produced upon the surface of the S l ' l o by exposure to the sun, is no less unpleasant to the feeling tb a v , generally destructive to the appearance. The only prevent l .,, and preservative of the Hands, Face, and Neck, from this agreeable liability is " Rowland's Kalydor." The Kalyde r . to a preparation from the most delightful exoti c s, n o t only (hying use) insures the skin from the effects of su mmer ' s scorch 1 •, heat, but it never fails of restoring the skin t o it s p r i s tine d e o: , cacy and whiteness, while, ultimately, it bestows upon countenance a soft awl delicate bloom ! INTERESTING DISCOVERY.--During the 0 „ ‘ part of last week, as some wor k men were emp l oye d in dige - t e and levelling the floor of Englishcombe church, with a view re-pewing the same, th ey di scovered, close to the spo t v“ . " 1 1, the pulpit stood, and partly embedded in the foundation 0 00 a large stone coffin, the lid composed of a single stone; is which was carved a recum b ent f i gure with the hands crosieu„.os the attitude of p rayer, and enveloped in a rude represent a „' e - - of a gow n or d rapery. The coffin contained a skeleton in r' r tl feet pre serva ti on, t h e b ack part of the skull resting in a Tr ey formed in the bottom of the coffin to receive the same. likewise, in digging a drain outside the edifice, at a depth C ° s6 siderably b e l ow t h e f oundat i on, uncovered severa l sma ll e r st ° o l coffins, the contents o f w hi c h ti me an d d am p h a d conve r ,,b into dust. The inference seems to be, that the present clan! t , has b een erec t e d on t h e s it e o f some ecc l es i ast i ca l e difi c e el i te , ing in a r emo t e per i o d on t h e same spot. S tone co ffi n s b, a „,o from time to time, in th e memor y o f persons no w living, " - lit discovered in this parish during about the last thirty-five I, eg i d, in draining a field belongi ng t o J o h n Cottl e , Esq., of HMI is place. Here also formerly stood a cas tl e , th e moat of whic h distinctly visible.—Sherburne Journal. SILVER TEA and COFFEE SERVICE; Drawings of the newest patterns, will be forwarded, post paid' t , any part of the country, in answer t o a p a id l e tt e r, with full par, culars of size, weight, and price ; or Purchasers will fi ,3(l yt most extensive assortment of the Silver Services in the Sho Rooms. Either Tea-pot, Sugar Basin, Cream Ewer or Cote' pot, may be had separately. T. COX SAVORY, 11' Silversmith, &e., 47, Cornhill (Seven doors from Graceohore street), Lendon. SHEFFIELD MADE PLATED DISH C l ' 4, VERS.—A. B. SAVORY and SONS, G o ld s miths,'t fo r Cornhill, London, opposite the Rank of England, subuLl t ,F, selection, in their show-rooms, a very large variety of FIELD SILVER-PLATED DISH COVERS, fres , teen Guineas the set ; they have sliver edges and handles, s silver shields for engraving the crest or coat of arms. Double Dome Pattern. The Melon Pattern. L . Size. s. (LI 6ize. 7 1 Plated Dish Covers, 20 in. 6 1:i C,l Platel Dish Cov er , 20 im• I Dish Cover, I 8 in. 4 7 011 „ Dish Cover is in• - 6 2 „ Dish Covers, 14 in. 5 1:2 012 o , Di a u c evers.l4 Per Met ll 14. Per Set £ls I:, ill Plated Currie or Hash Disher seven Gui neas th e Set., " Price Current, Stamped as a Newspaper, containing droV i e r. and every information relativq to the purchase of silver or 4 1 40 field plate, may be had on application, or will be sent int . ountry, free of postage, in answer to a paid letter. BIRTHS. On the 22d inst., at Lla n idl oes , North \Vales, the lady o f dig Rev. George Fisher, of Greenwich Hospital, ofa son. o f On the 22d inst., a t th e T emp l e, L ancashire, the lady Hugh Beaver, of G:yn Garth, Anglesea, of a daughter. of On the 22d in s t., a t la d yHampstead, the lady Marmaduke Langdale, jun., Esq , of a daughter. A• On the 23d in s t., a t M ar i ne-parade, Brighton, Mrs. N'lr • Soames, of a daughter. On the 24th i ns t. , at H ampstead, the lady of Thomas Ja lc e son, Esq., of Pimlico, of a daughter. IARRJED. On the 21st inst., at Lanfrynach Church, near Bre e°ll ' John F. I. Starke, Esq., eldest surviving son of the ' at t. ; Colonel Starke, of Langhorne Castle, Carmarthenshire , Caroline Anna, daughter of Claud. Clifton, Esq., of Trn at" Brecknockshire. J. On the 21st i ns t., a t St. D u nstan's Chu rc h, L o ndon, 111 x• Adkins Tibbitts, eldest son of Mr. John Tibbitts, of Budge-r ° City, to Susan Caroline, youngest daughter of Mr. John Can ningharn, of Gough-square. r 4. cob, On the 23d inst., at St. Pancras Ch urc h, Herbert Captain 19th Regiment Bombay ar m y, t o M ar y D un stervi - r ller daughter of the late Lieutenant-C o l one l J o h n Bell Duns te ville, of the same presidoncy. .', DIED. On the 19th inst., at Brussels, Sir George Pocock, Batio On the 22d inst., at Castle Farm, near Buckingham, To' k , Ledbrooke, Esq., many years surgeon to the Royal Bu ys and a Deputy Lieutenant of the county. On the 23d inst., Mr. Simson, of St. Paul's Churchyard- t On the 23(1 inst., Mr. Joh n S m i t h, o f Li tt l e W a rner-gr ee Clerkenwell, aged 45. On the 23d inst., in Henrietta -street, Covent-garden, s ' beth, the ife f Mr. Jon Bohn. affed 69. On the w 23d i o nst., at S t pratton Flail, Northamptonshire, Jul Frances, fourth daughter of the late hey. William Hea th ' Inkborough, Worcestershire. , of On the 23d inst., M ary , t h e w if e o f R o b ert P ug h, Salisbury-street, Strand, aged 65. On the 24th i ns t., Thomas Hodgson, Esq., of IslingOr'' green, aged 78. r Lich' On the 19th i ns t., a t East Hendred, Miss Dodson, o f I field, eldest dau g ht er o f t h e l ate R ev. J. D o d son , DJ ) " ° 11 , . • . Ilurstperpoint, Sussex. On the 19th inst., in Spring-te rrace , Wandsworth-roaclP Mr. Richard Covington, aged 82. On the 19th inst., Mr. William Witherby, of Ilorns e i -r° Islington, aged 83. On the 20th inst., at Cambridge, Mary, relict •f the B el. John Raymond, late Vicar of Wimbish, Essex. Emmlimmtamme ,,,, foriremene wismeme" . London : Pri n t e d an d P u bli s h e d by 311IRDO YOUNG , ;( No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Okoo, No. 112, S tr and s the county of Middlesex.—Saturday, July 2), 1840. S(7l , Fr data outla 2trac I3uil( abi W ag , fu Pass' Frei ; di( Yieli as t, nbtk howl Th fiees o'cl• c. CON N o . the L Pre (St tint. Cat deli