The Sun. — London, England, 1847-11-30 00:00:00

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King's /oscom f a fear ffil that om the ;cut for ,o much )y these the axe are not in my I,ondon urder of non and r n post , - to Mrs. Mahon, ['Cause to me, V. 16. f A yet/ rk WO e of the ar this useland , on, wall ly mur• with A [CaU5e l u sel and, ier de ep ierewi DI , t o you log fate. and be' 11 share There o take a (Mr. u nless o f f ill bees to is fat he Con' i n is his le expo' ltb iost* widow , he cries 3eavens• d go" at pre coerico, fornvet 1 on S h i t •owtovr— post- i t ; THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY _EVENING, NOVEMBER BU, 1847. those which Parliament may adopt, still, that in a limited area, at all events, there does exist a system of terror kept alive by the constant recurrence of crimes of fearful atrocity, by which individuals in the discharge of their duties as landlords, by residing upon their properties, are exposed to the continued dangers of assassination, a system which must lead to the disorganization of all society, and which must present an insurmountable bar rier to every attempt permanently to improve the condi tion of the people.—(bear.) The House will have remarked what constitutes, in every item of the long and lamentable catalogue of murder which I have read, a remarkable characteristic of the crimes now being com mitted. They have all been perpetrated with fire-arms. —(Hear, hear.) Leaving, however, this part of the subject, I now proceed to another, which I think the House has a right to expect that I should not altogether pass by—l mean the powers now possessed by Govern ment for dealing with the difficulties which present themselves; in other words, the actual state of the law, and the manner in which that law is administered.— (Hear.) And I think I may appeal to every gentleman conversant with Ireland, and who may have recently returned from that country, to boar testimony to the vigour and efficiency with which the Lord-Lieutenant has administered those powers which the law has given to him.—(Hear, hear.) It is gratifying to find, in the resolutions of the magistrates which I have already re ferred to—resolutions adopted under circumstances of unusual terror and dismay—that no charge is brought against the Executive Government, of having neglected any means which could be adopted for their protection, or of showing the least decree of indifference towards the crimes which have been perpetrated—(Hear, hear.) I may then take credit at least for the rigour and efficiency of my Noble Friend in discharging his functions for the repression of crime—the protection of life, and the encouragement of those—and I am glad to say that there are many such—who are dis posed to co-operate with Government for the main tenance of order and the repression of outrage.—(Hear, hear.) The Lord-Lieutenant has made what use he was able of the military and police force at his disposal in all the cases in which, in his opinion, the appearance of an overwhelming force might overawe the offenders, or convince them of the fruitlessness of their attempts to gain the advantages they seek for from the commission of crime. —(hear, hear.) I have adverted to the pro ceedings in the case of Mr. Roe, and also to those in the case of Mr. Hill, who was shot near Limerick, in both of which all the powers which could be exercised by the Lord-Lieutenant were rigidly enforced. With the view, however, of pointing out to the deluded perpe trators of these outrages, and all others who were aiding and abetting in keeping up that system of terror and in timidation now prevalent in certain parts of Ireland, the Lord-Lieutenant has issued a proclamation which cer tainly appears to me to comprise very much of what a document of the sort ought to set forth. In that pro clamation, the Lord-Lieutenant, while sympathising with the sufferings of great bodies of the people, is at pains to point out that the outrages do not generally occur in those districts in which the most severe desti tution exists.—(Hear, hear.) Although undoubtedly outrages have been committed npon the pressure of severe distress, yet the night attacks in Limerick and Clare, and the assassinations in Tipperary, the King's County, and in Roscommon, have not been induced by want. His Excellency then proceeds as follows:—" The Lord-Lieutennat, while affiarding the well-disposed the protection of the law and the support of the Executive Government in their efforts to maintain order, earnestly asks for their co-operation in suppressing such violations of the public peace as have recently occurred in the county of Limerick, and in other places, and in endea vouring to detect and convict those who are engaged in the commission of similar crimes. There is no class, save the guilty themselves, which is not interested in bringing to punishment the highwayman, the burglar, and the assassin, and the Lord-Lieutenant hopes that a vigorous and energetic co-operation on the part of those whose properties and lives may be sacrificed at the hands of these offenders, will enable the authorities to carry out successfully the endeavours of the Executive Govern ment to vindicate the law and protect her Majesty's peaeeful subjects. The Lord-Lieutenant, therefore, confidently appeals not to the gentry alone, but to the well-disposed farmers and industrious peasantry who seek to earn their livelihood by honest labour, to aid his efforts in suppressing a system of terror, which be feels satisfied is exercised by the few, but which may be overcome by the energy and determination of the many, whom it is intended to overawe. His Ex cellency hopes thet the misguided people, who are often led into crime by a few wicked men, may be persuaded to listen to better advice, and shun the companionship of the felon and the murdelser, whose course through life can often be traced by the misery which he has drawn down upon those who have unwarily joined them in a career of crime. His Excellency is resolved by every meaus in his power to suppress the wicked spirit which now disturbs the public peace, and retards the social improvement and the prosperity of the country. The Constabulary will be increased in all disturbed districts (whereby an additional burden will be thrown upon the rates), military detachments will be stationed wherever necessary, in aid of the civil authorities, and efficient patrols maintained ; liberal rewards will be given for information leading to the arrest of offenders, and ample protection to all who come forward and prosecute them; in short, no exertion shall be spared for rigor ously enforcing the law against those by whom it is vio • listed. The Lord-Lieutenant, therefore, warns all who engage, either in resistance to legal authority, or in attacks upon life and property, to abstain from such crimes, which will be followed by the severest punish ment—he cautions the people not to join with the ha bitual perpetrators of outrage, nor listen to the evil counsels tor of men w h o encourage oppos i t i on to t h e l aw their ow n ends, and w ill l eave those t h ey h ave de luded into crime to suffer its punishment—above all, he thinks it his duty to make kn own th e p ena lties that will be incurred by accessores to crime, and that all persons are by law conside re d ; • 1 accessories who protect criminals against their pursuers, who afford them the means to escape, who aid in their disguise, who mislead those who may be in search of them, or who harbour offenders in their houses." The Right lion. Gentleman continued— Perhaps I may here mention that a case recently came before the Court of Queen's Bench, i n I re l an d , w hi c h is connected with the last paragraph of the proclamation, and the decision in which will, I trust, have - no slight ' effect in enforcing the solemn warning of my Noble Friend, and in leading the people to see that his are no unmeaning words: — Two persons were suspected of having harboured a man accused of an atrocious crime. They were arrested, but unconscious, as it would tip pear, of the gravity of the offence which they had Committed, they applied to be admitted to bail. The Chief Justice, in an elaborate judgment, pointed out the enormity of the offence and the severity of the punishment which would await it, and decidedly refused to entertain the application for bail. I trust, Sir, this decision, coupled with the language of the proclamation, will have a great effect in checking r the sympathy which has been unhappily tenn i. tested with the perpetrators of crime in Ireland, and of preventing that aid and countenance being shown to- Wards those which we have in too many instances had reason to regret.---(Hear, hear.) Allusion was made the other night to a special commission. Now, I am not ins position to state that a special commission has Issued for the trial of offences; but let me remind the Ilouse that the cases that would be so tried have all come on us within the last few weeks. The first case in the sad catalogue which I read occurred only two Executive ago. Since that time every exertion of the Government has been made to detect the offenders—to trace them to their hiding-places; and, not withstanding the many difficulties and obstacles which have b sea th rown i n t h e way, I re j o i ce to sa y, although e ome Of the perpetrators of these outrages are still at l arge, and although no clue can be obtained to their lurking-places, yet that several of the perpetrators of the m oat daring crimes have been apprehended, and will no doubt be brought to justice.—(H ear , h e ar.) With respect, however, to the special commission, the Lord • L et o utr,nant, in th e f requent correspondence wh i ch he coma sins with us , states that the issuing of such a o ission i s t h e cones° which he is prepared to lopt the moment that the Attorney-General infornis hi m — as h e will very shortly—that there are sufficienta number of c hear.) And this laesaesd to justify such a step. — (Hear , I no a t. : a, me d t to troc a oo n if c o e t h to o portionfi Ireland,n d a nsrn e o e the subject. Infinredvievvine spects showing that juries are d i ts n p f osed to wink at crime.— (ileau, hear. ) What may But ut if ure be the case, I will not vs mture to anticipate. fe.turca by the past, then I find thatw h i t t e t o h an the ju l d a g st e g o u f ar t t h e e r aessio ns the j u d ges h ave re p orted t of juries— ask the reaso a to be dissatisfied with the verdicts oeehave had no e to (Hese% hear)—and I - therefore do not House to suspend the ordinary forms of legal procedure, or ti) erect tribunals of another character; feeling, do, firmly assured that the ordinary course o f la as . l be found sufficient Ste -bring offenders, against whom will awlyse information may be lodged, to convicti on and pun ishment.—(Hear, hear.) But in the meantime crime is still being perpetrated. Persons are seen lurking about, by day and night, armed with guns and blunder buss;es loaded—as a military officer writes—with such ChVargeS as that which was extracted from the body of a reeo n t victim—namely, one bullet and thirteen swan tbo t. The: persons using fire-arms, too, are in the batsit of practising at a mark. Now, by the Constabu lary Act, passed a year and a half ago, the Lord-Lieu tert ant is empowered to proclaim districts as being in a stat;e of disturbance. There are also Whiteboy Acts, ens sting severe penalties against crim es—now common in Tipperary and Roscommon such as sending t i hnsatening notices. These distri cts, however, cannot "staid to be in a state of disturbance, because their c coaxlition does not answer the conditions of the detini twn of " disturbance," as given in the Acts in question. The power vested in the Lord-Lieutenant ' e shns in sending to disturbed districts , su ch as Lime rick,Tipperary, and part of Clare, a limited number of Police, in addition to the ordinary constabulary force, charging the expense on the county, but only, however, to be collected at distant periods, when its amount would probably be lost sight of in the general amount of the grand jury presentment, of which it would form only part. Th e L or d-Li eutenant having, t h en, at p r esent power of increasing the police force in those districts in which the prevailing crimes aro principally corn mitt ed, has felt it to be his duty to avail himself of that Power—so far as by Act of Parliament he was enabled so to do. He has hitherto, however, thought proclaim themin a it most p ru d ent not to 'e, when he was unable to do anything disturbans more than send small bodies of police hither—for the reserved for ce at his command in Dublin amounts, I may here s t ate, merely to 400 men. It was at first proposed s in the C onstabulary Bill that the Lord-Lieutenant should be et npowered to send to any dist ur b e d di str i ct any po rt i on of the reserved force. Considerable objec tion was, how© ver, raised in this House as to that power, principally with refere nce t o th e c h arge to be thus im wPoetreedsoitnuatthe, edeoaunta an ities in which the d is t ur b e d districts amendment was carried by which the Lord-Lieutenant's power to send down additional , police was limited to the dispatch on this service of 100 men. Such, then, was the actual power committed by the present law to the Lord-Lieutenant's hands, and that power he has efficiently and vigorously exerted. Deter mined, too, to proceed with, if possible, still greater energy, he has represented to the Government his con currence with the sentiment set forth in the resolutions which I have read emanating from magistrates in differ ent parts of the country—to the effect that the powers which he at present possesses are insufficient to enable him to afford that protection to life which it is the duty of every Government to afford to those who, in the dis charge of their duty, reside upon their properties and are anxious to co-operate with the authorities in the sup pression of crime and the promotion of the security of life and property. But the Lord-Lieutenant, Sir, does not ask for any general measure to be applied to the whole of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He only asks for a measure applicable to districts, in which crimes of the same nature may be found to exist, at his discretion. — (Hear, hear.) Indeed, Sir, I may say at once that the foundation of the Bill for which we ask, is confidence in the discretion of the Lord-Lieutenant.—(Hear, hear.) Confidence in his administration of the powers to be intrusted to him.—(Hear, hear.) If you believe the amendment of the present law to be necessary—if you be lieve that some further powers vested in the hands of the Lord-Lieutenant are essential to enable him to maintain and vindicate the supremacy of the law— I ask you to leave the discretion of exercising these powers wi•k him, rather than to place it in the grasp of any leeel authorities ; and I ask this not from any dittrust of the keel u.sgistracy of Ire. land, who, I must say, have shown in the trying cir circumstances under which they have been placed, an amount of spirit and energy well worthy the commenda tions of their countrymen—but, because I think these magistrates ought not to have imposed upon them, in addition to the onerous and hazardous task which they at present discharge, that most difficult and invidious duty of deciding upon the districts in which the special power shall be exercised, and upon those from which -it is to be withheld.—(Hear, hear.) I shall now shortly state the outlines of the measure which we propose. The Bill, in its first clause, having recited that, in consequence of the prevalence of crime and outrage, it has been found necessary to make certain provisions for their suppres sion—the first clause will, I say, give power to the Lord- Lieutenant, with the advice of his Privy Council, wher ever it shall be necessary for the prevention of crime and outrage, to declare that district to be in a state of dis turbance--for if we limit this power to the districts at present technically in a state of disturbance we would not be able to apply it to districts such as parts of Fer managh. The clause goes on to enact that, whenever the Lord- Lieutenant shall think necessary, a proclamation may be issued setting forth that from and after a given day the provisions of this Act shall apply to the district so proclaimed. In settling what shall be the extent of such districts we have followed the words of the exist ing Constabulary Force Act. In that Act it is provided that the Lord-Lieutenant may proclaim any county and city, or any county or town, or any barony of half barony, or any district of less extent in any barony or half-barony through all Ireland. Thus it is evident that the proclamation ma) be confined to very limited districts—a most desirable arrangement—in order that the pressure of the Act may be only felt in those parts of the country, however small, where crime is actually encouraged or harboured.—(Hear, hear.) The second clause merely provides for the proclamation being ex tensively posted through the disturbed district, together with copious extracts from the provisions of the Act, so as to give full notice to the population so proclaimed. The Lord-Lieutenant is then empowered, without respect to present limitation, to increase the constabulary force in any proclaimed district to any extent he may think nett ssary limited, however, as by the nature of things that extent must be—by the amount of the police reserved force placed at his disposal. The constables so sent from Dublin will be ruled by the provisions of the Constabulary Force Act, to which they are at pre sent subjected. We propose, however, that as the pre sent reserve force amounts only to 400 men, to give the Lord-Lieutenant power to increase it to 600 men, so as to augment to this extent the available force—the necessary expense attending this increase to be pro vided for from the Consolidated Fund. When, however, it becomes necessary to send any additional police into a county, the expense of their maintenance whilst there is at present defrayed by that county, and such amounts are collected as county cess, by means of grand jury presentments. We have, however, thought it desirable, and the Lord Lieutenant considers the provisions to be most important. to introduce two alterations as to the mode of repayment by counties. We propose that where an extraordinary number of police are required, that the whole expense of the maintenance of such police, during the time they are stationed in any district, shall be borne by that district, and shall not tall upon the county at large—(llear, hear)—while we also propose, and this other alteration in the present law is suggested by the Lord-Lieutenant himself, that such payments shall not be postponed until remote periods.—(llear, hear.) —for, Sir, we look upon it in the nature of a penalty to be imposed immediately, not to be repaid in a year after or when order shall be restored, but at once— (Hear, bear)— for the Lord-Lieutenant would prefer that even one- half of it should be repaid immediately rather than the whole at a later period —(hear, hear.) We think also that it is desirable that the district or districts which shall be thus proclaimed shall pay the whole of the sum necessary for the increased establish ment of constabulary.— (Cheers.) And with that view, Sir, there shall be provisions in the Bill for an estimate to be framed of these expenses aud of the sums that will he necessary, and the money to be spent in maintaining the police force in each district for three months; and steps will be immediately taken to levy the amount of the estimate by the same means as the county rate, as soon as any district shall be placed under the operation of this Act. This estimate, as I have said, will be levied for the three months as soon as the increased force shall be sent down; and if they arc detained longer than three months, then, at the expiration of that period, the same process shall be repeated for other three months, and provisions made for local payments ; but if it should happen that the police were withdrawn at an earlier period than was anticipated, and before the expiration of the first or the second period of three months, then provision was made for the repayment of the balance which would thus remain over the original estimate to the county coss.—(Cheers.) I now proceed to the clauses of the Bill, and to the police regulations which we think necessary in order to restrain within the proclaimed districts the present unrestricted posses sion of arms by persons who have, by their deeds of vio lence, proved themselves unworthy of having them, and by the use they have made of them have shown that they are not fit to be entrusted with them. The first provision we propose with respect to this subject is, that there should be a general prohibition within the district or districts so proclaimed, from the day of proclamation of all persons, irrespective of rank or amount of rate— (Cheers)—with certain exceptions enumerated in the Bill, and still further exceptions, to which I shall pre sently allude, carrying or having, within the districts specified, elsewhere than in his or her dwelling-house, any arms—[and here follows a long enumeration of the various descriptions of arms which it has been thought necessary to insert, in order to prevent the evasion of the Act that might otherwise take place]—and we propose that any person who shall, contrary to the provisions of this Act, be found with arms in his possession, shall be held guilty of a misdemeanour, and liable to imprisonment, with or without hard labour, for any time not exceeding two years.—(Hear, hear.) And here let me remind the House that in the penalties of this Act there is no dis cretion allowed to the Lord-Lieutenant. The issuing of the proclamation, if he thinks it necessary, will depend on him, and it will then apply to the district so pro claimed, irrespective of any other or further Act, so that it shall be no longer lawful for persons in such district to go about with arms in their possession to terrify the peaceable inhabitants, and to use them in the execution of their sanguinary purposes, in the com mission of those crimes which are a disgrace to the country.—(Hear, hear.) I now come to the exception which it will he necessary to make in the operation of this clause, for it is absolutely impossible that the dis armament should be universal all over the district. The exceptions are—justices of the peace, persons employed in her Majesty's army or navy, in coast-guard service, in the revenue, in the police, in the constabulary, special constables, and those persons who may be licensed to kill game—(Murmurs, and cries of "Ohl oh! oh!")--and with deputations or powers duly licensed, as hereinafter mentioned.—(Henewed murmurs.) These are all of them, let me state, exceptions already existing, as to whom no discretion should have to be exercised. It has been thought, however, that there might he cases in which it is necessary those exceptions should be carried still further. If we could rely with absolute confidence in the success of this clause—if we could by means of this enactment, disarm all those per sons who use arms to the terror and intimidation of others, it might be unnecessary to allow the persons, who are the objects of these attacks, to carry arms for their self defence. But, independently of those exceptions, there are persons peculiarly exposed to outrage. There are the collectors of the poor-rates, for example, who are peculiarly the objects of those deadly attacks.—(hear, hear.) There are also the poor-law guardians, who are tp c h o oos m se p e e tp l he l e e rr d seo t n o h go abroad in the discharge of their duties, and who must necessarily be excepted. We do not pro shohijirldthbee any regular sysintegmarmof arms abroad We do not, as I existingsael b7f a o l re purpose of carrying by means of the hear.) authorities.— He , • g 1 ( 1 t that ar on the them carry arms, an i sr m h p o ose s d hoh o l ,magistrates of disturbed districts should rl have , invidious duty in deciding and in ht granting those licenses, the discharge of hi c h liable. Here again, Sir, we propose, intendingthe to increased danger beyond that to which mg theyalready prohibition to carry arms shall be the rule, and the ey are that " th y e per mission to do so the exception, to place thOresponsibility on the executive of Ireland, in the person of the Lord- Lieutenant ; and accordingly the Act provides that persons nominated by him, and holding high offices in the constabulary, shall, at places assigned, and at a time named, within certain restrictions, attend for the pur pose of granting licenses to carry arms within the dis turbed districts, in cases wherein they may think it fit to grant them to persons who may be exposed to those lawless attacks. It shall be provided, in addition to this, that it shall be lawful for the p olice to a pp reh end all persons unlawfuliv carrying arms, and that they shall s within the meaning of the Act, and of carrying arm have power to search those whom they may suspect take away y erown. As an illustration of shall be forfeited to et clause will work, I will r e ca ll t o any arms t h h e e may find about them, which the way in which th I have already stated with respect to the murder of d the recollection of t he House the circumstances which two men with arms in their possession were seen Major Mahon. On the ay when he was murdered lurking about the very sp ot where the ill-fated gentle man met his death. Thougk they hey. not ben i arrested, there is no reason, at least no moral reason, to ) ' doubt that they were the persons by whom the fatal aci, was committed.—(Bear, hear.) If the police had been armed with the power which this clause confers these persons might have been arrested, have been deprived • of their fatal weapons, committed to prison, and ren dered amenable to punishment for carrying arms, or if it were proved that arms were found un them or near them, as there is no doubt would have been the case in this instance. 'rids provision does not extend to per sons with arms in their houses. We are not of opinion that the same absolute prohibition to retain arms now in the possession of persons in districts under proclama tion should be enacted by Parliament as is necessary with respect to persons carrying arms abroad.—(hear.) There is no doubt the possession of fire-arms has been sought for and obtained, and may be so in those pro claimed districts with perfectly lawful purposes by many persons. Many of the small farmers, for instance, have obtained arms for the purpose of defending their houses against midnight attacks, and there were several cases in which these attacks had been successfully defeated by means of the gallant use of these fire-arms.—(Hear, hear.) We, at the same time, think the indiscriminate possession of arms, even in houses, in the proclaimed districts, where a suspicion exists that the parties who have theta intend to use them in the furtherance of crime, and in tire pur suittof their murderous conspiracies, is not to be sane tioned.—(Hear, hear.) We propose, therefore, to give the Lord-Lieutenant the power, at his own discretion, to issue a further proclamation or notice, to rifer either to the whole or a limited pirtion of the disrur be d dis tricts, to call on all persons, not within thost, enume rated exceptions to which I formerly refersed, to apply for licenses to retain their arms, and to order that any persons not so licensed shall deliver up their arms by a day to be named in the notice so issued by the Lord- Lieutenant, at the nearest police-station within the dis turbed district, or at some police-station adjoining. He proposed to enact that after such notice, all persons knowingly retaining arms within their own houses and not being within the excepted clauses, who shall not have a license so to retain them, shall be guilty of a misdemeanour. We further propose that the Lord- Lieutenant shall hare power, by a warrant under the hand of the Chief, or of the Under-Secretary for Ireland, to order a search to be made by the police in the houses comprised within the the proclaimed dis tricts, which have been included in the notice, or in other parts of the country if necessary, and to authorise a seizure of all arms found in such districts by the police, and their forfeiture to the Crown.—(Hear, hear.) Such, Sir, are the main provisions we propose that this House should enact with respect to the possession of arms in those districts of Ireland in which crime prevails, and such are the provisions which I am authorised to state the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland considers will enable him, with the additional police force which Parliament may place at his disposal, and with the efficient aid which the military authorities, in concert with them, are prepared to afford, as well as with the assistance of the well-disposed inhabitants of the country, on which he confidently relies, effectually to suppress the state of crime and outrage to put an end to the system of intimidation and to the reign of terror which are paralysing the en erg i es o f the eovernment in that country, and disorganising the whole condition of society.—(Hear, hear.) There are farther provisions in the Bill, without reference to the state of disturbance in the districts, and without the necessity of proof which is required to make a person answerable to the provisions of the White Boy Act, which render persons guilty of offences not strictly within the meaning of that Act, such as writing threatening letters and notices, amenable to the operation of that Act, and liable to the infliction of its penalties.—<Hear, hear.) There ' is one other clause which, though it does n o thi ng m o re than recite the existing law, increases its stringency, and subjects parties transgressing it to the full penalties of ' their offence, will I trust be found successful in prevent ing the commission and impunity of crime, and in check ing that disposition on the part of the p( ople to side with the criminal, and to refuse assistance to the police, to which I have already had occasion to allude. We propose by this clause that justices of the peace, or con- I stables in any district where any murder has been committed, or attempt to murder made, or reasonable F ground for believing that it will be made, shall be em powered to call on all persons between the ages of sixteen and twenty, residing or being in the district, to assist in the search and pursuit of persons either charged with the ' commission of crime, and in case of an attempt to com mit it, to discover them, and to require theta to join in the pursuit, and investigation of the concealment of the criminal. It goes on to enact, that it shall be the duty of every one so called upon to join in the pursuit, acid to do his utmost to assist in the search ; and that every one refusing to join in and assist, when so called upon, shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and liable to be impri soned, with or without bard labour, for any period not exceeding two years.—(Hear.) Such, Sir, are the main provisions of the Bill which I am anxious to obtain the leave of the House to lay upon the table. Whatever opinion may be entertained with re spect to its adaptation to check those frightful evils which it has been my painful duty to lay before the Rouse, I hope, Sir, the House will allow me to put Upon the table a Bill framed with the object rather of prevent ing the commission of crime than of subjecting the whole kingdom, for the crimes and outrages of a few, to ' the penalties of a harsh and vexatious law.—(Hear, hear.) We do not ask you for the suspension of the law, or to erect any other than the ordinary tribunals of the country, but we ask you to pass this Bill as a means of dispelling the well-grounded terror, which, grounded ou the force of arms and intimidation, is stalking through the districts in which those crimes exist. W hat ever opinion may be entertained of its efficiency for these purposes, Parliament will at once agree a ith me in saying that it is the duty of the Government and of the Legislature to endeavour, by the existing law if they can—if not, by an amendment of it—to prevent the re petition and frequent recurrence of crimes to which the attention of the House has been so painfully called. I trust, Sir, that the Bill which is now ready to be brought in may be laid on the table of the House to-night, that it may be printed and placed in the hands of Honeurable Members as soon as possible. I hope that an early day may be fixed for its discussion, and that no protracted debate may take place on this occasion, but that any observations which may arise respecting the Bill may be referred to a future stage in its progress through the House. The Right Hon. Baronet concluded by moving for leave to bring in the Bill. Mr. J. O'CONNELL then rose, on the question being put, but his opening remarks were inaudible, in conse quence of the noise made by the Members leaving the House. Ho was understood to observe, that he was agreeably disappointed, after the rumours he had heard out of doors with respect to the intentions of Govern- I ment, at the provisions of the Bill now sought to be in troduced. Ile certainly had been prepared for a more severe measure from what he had heard, and his expec tations had not been met, he was glad to say, by the measure which they had just heard described by the Right Hon. Baronet. He for one felt bound to say he did not consider there was any reason for violating in this instance the usual courtesy of the House by op posing the introduction of the Bill; and he was not pre pared to say " No" to the motion for a first reading of it..—(Loud cries of " Hear, heay.") The Government ought to have the Bill printed as speedily as possible to send it over to Ireland, that they might collect the opinions of the country there before the discussion came on. The Irish Members were prepared to make every concession to Government consistently with the discharge of their duty in the suppression of outrage. — (Hear, hear.) He was not by any means con vioced that the powers of the law as it stood at present were not perfectly equal to the repression of outrage ; but it would be a very grave thing, considering the re sponsibility that rested upon the Government, to refuse them leave to bring in this Bill. During its progress through the House he implored them, however, to put in force all the force of the existing laws, and to issue special commissions, to see if it were not adequate for the prevention of these outrages without having recourse to any measure of coercion. The Hon. Member con troverted the statements of Mr. Hawley, the assistant barrister, that no person could go through the county of Tipperary without danger, and remarked that the very fact of the Learned Gentleman, whose unfortunate lot it had been to have transported more men than any assist- I ant barrister in Ireland, being able to attend to his duties without hindrance, was a contradiction to his own report. One part of the Right Honourable Ba ronet's speech had filled him with regret. lie had in the course of his remarks spoken very strongly against the outrages of the people, and the enor mity of the crimes committed by them—he had lauded highly the character and conduct of the county magistrates, but he had not said one word of the crimes committed by the landlord against the tenant, and he (Mr. O'Connell) thought that where the outrages of the poor were so strongly reprobated, it would have been only justice to have held up those of the rich to equal censure.—(Hear, hear.) The crime, he could assure the House, was not all on one side. The relations of landlord and tenant were marked with it both ways. They were told that Government intended to bring in measures of relief, but where were they ? They did not see them, nor did they know what they were. He could assure Hon. Gentlemen on the Treasury benches it was a bad way of beginning the session to open it with harshness and severity. The moral effect of their coercive measure would be far greater if it were preceded by substantial efforts of good-will. He trusted they should hear some of the Ministry stating the nature of the measure they intended to bring in, and the time at which it would be ready for the House. If the ob jections he now entertained to the present measure were to be removed by discussion, he would still feel it his duty to give every opposition to it in its latest stages, unless some progress were made in the Bill which was to estab. lish the , peace of Ireland by the removal of the un settled relations between landlord and tenant. The Government depended too much on the effect of a poor law. It would be found inadequate to the emergency. Human beings were perishing daily, and such resources as the country possessed could not be developed in time to save them. A large amount of the rates collected lately were arrears, and when these rates were expended he wished to know what would be left for out-door relief. , Something should be done to assist the people at once. It was said there was some corn to aid the local rates in feeding and maintaining 500,000 men, but ho believed they would have in the ensuing year to give relief to between 3,000,000 and 4,000,000 of souls. By the papers, as far as ho was able to see, there did not appear to have been more than 1,600,0001. given by way of loan and grant to the unions in Ireland—about 1.500,000/. had been devoted to the improvement of land, and 500,000/. to railway companies ; but, on the whole, out of the 8,000,0001. which had been granted by Par liament, there must be 4,000,000/. unemployed, which he implored them to use in saving the lives of the people, or another million of' them would perish within the next six months. H e would bring this subject gala and man before the Houtz* till he bad ascertained what they would do for the people. It was not creditable for this country to attempt to remedy the evils of Ireland by mere " stop gap" measures. If they bad some great plan for the profound and compl ete ame li orat i on of Ireland, why not announce it at once, end satisfy the minds of her re presentatives that they were considering her state, and preparing to meet it with substantial measures? The Hon Member read a letter of the late Mr. O'Colllll 11. The writer looked upon it as a matter of the most mo • mentous importance to imprint on the mind of Lord Devon and the Government the necessity of taking im mediate steps to remedy the evils of the relations be tween landlord and tenant, and prophecied that the peoplewould be driven by delay to pass out of the hands of those who kept air m in submission to the laws! That warning had been almost fulfilled. The people were passing out of the hands of those who lived to restrain them; the clergy acre losing their held over them, and to the bishops and priests that was the most terrible fear in their hearts. He implored them to prevent the completion of the prophecy, and to win for themselves the bright crown of statemanship in removing the cause that had deluged Ireland in oceans of blood, and in re stoi ing her people to I•eace and prosperity. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said it was because he re cognised in this measure the foundation and pretence of more cruelty than it was intended to put down that he gave it his most determined opposition in the outset, and after the experience of the Hon. Member for Kil kenny fur 11233 and 1834, he was astonished that the lion. Member should place any reliance on the equivocal promises of th e G ent l emen oppos it e . If he re eleircd a strong rsasou fur opposing this Bill on prin ciple, it had b, :eii f urn i s h e d by the Right non. Baronet who iniiodue e d i t , be cause from the beginning to the close of his sp eec h every sentence wen t to prove that, with the pre sen t exert i ons of t h e L or d-Lieutenant, all that could be done by law to repress clime and outrage was doing, and was successful. What had the Right Hon. Gentleman told them in the outset? That crime had diminished one-third. Wherever the ordinary powers of the law were tried, the Right Honourable Baronet had shown that in every instance com plete success was attained. The Right Honourable Baronet said, let it not be told to foreign countries that Ireland was in this disturbed state ; but with his (Mr. O'Connor's) consent, it should not be told to foreign countries that Ireland was to have coercion, when her people were starving for want of food. Though the Right Honourable Baronet might attempt to give a mild character to this measure, was it not attempting to create a Brehon police, wbo were to have the power of searching houses for arms, and under this colour of legality, of doing just what they pleased? But it was agreeable to the whole system of English rule in Ireland—it was a sop to the landlords—it was another little bit of compensation for the repeal of the corn. laws. He was not for a temporizing policy; and he would tell the Government that the most insidious and dangerous support they could receive was support of this kind; whilst his (Mr. O'Connor's) opposition was avowed and determined. The Noble Lord and his Government had applied fur coercion after coercion, with the promise of propounding remedial measures; but nut one remedial measure had they ever proposed. The system of the Government from first to last had been to create patronage, and to arrest the progress of o i b f I y E c n o c u l l a d n . d Whatunder wasth the t p t u t b h l a i c t o p p r i o n d i o u n e e a d s ilia far a tr s a t nsu hey ill P i o ty " existence of distress? It was not any stretching or straining of the laws, but the mild administration of the law by the judges of the land. The Right Hon. Gen • tleman the late Secretary for the Home Depart ment had attempted not only to strain the ordinary law, but to give the whole law into the hands of the police, and to make them the judges of crime. What was the result ? That the law was despised and disregarded until the Government sent down a just judge to try the persons accused in 1842. In consequence of the mild administration of the law, and the mannnr in which the present Chief Baron pro secuted when Attorney• General, there had not been one violation of the law so far as public peace was con cerned from that year to this. Let them take care, then, how they strained the law, for the inevitable con sequence would be to create suspicion, jealousy, and out rage. It was the duty of Government to employ the means in their hands to restore tranquillity to Ireland. But what had been their system ? o sow the seeds of dissension amongst all parties. The landlords managed their estates, not according to the signs of agriculture, but according to the signs of polities. They no longer required the political support of their tenants, and were disinheriting them. It was one of the strongest re marks of the Right Honourable Baronet that Govern ment could do little for the landed interest. He would tell the Right Honourable Baronet that the Goverment could du nothing for the landed interest, whilst the landed interest could do everything for themselves. As he was told that that they were to wait for the missive from Ireland to see what would be the effect on Irish fee'ii.g of being ones more bludgeoned, dragooned, and coerced, he should reserve until then the remaining portion of his remarks. If he stood alone he would divide the House upon every single op portunity against this measure, and every other which he considered injurious to the interests of the country. Mr.IIOIISMAN said although he should support the measure Stow proposed, because he thought it calculated to promote tranquillity and the security of life in Ire land, he was not prepared to support it either on the ground stated by his Right Hon. Friend who introduced it, or on that to which the observations of the Hon. Mem ber for Kilkenny applied. His Right Hon. Friend had dwelt particularly on the present prevalence of outrage and crime in Ireland. That was not to him (Mr. Hors wan) satisfactory, because crime and outrage in Ire land were very familiar to us, as familiar to us as Coer cion Bills ; and we knew that in former periods mea sures of coercion had failed. Neither could he support the measure because it was a milder measure than Mi. nisters were expected to introduce, for he considered that he was not to look at a measure, where so much was at stake, to ask if it were mild or severe; his duty, as a Member of Parliament, was to ask if it was a suitable and effective measure. When the preservation of human life was the object to be attained, he feared that a falling off on the side of leniency might be little less pernicious than an excess of severity. The question he asked him self was, was the measure founded on right principles, or was it, as had been predicted by those who threatened opposition to it, founded on the old mistaken principle, a mere isolated expedient to meet a temporary emergency, another in that series of violent makeshifts by which our past legislation in Ireland had been disgraced? Was it founded on that better principle which Parliament esta blished not long ago, that our Irish legislation should henceforth proceed on a system, that such enactments should be part and parcel of a great and comprehensive policy—(Hear, hear)—links in a great chain of intelli gible measures, each intended to support the other, and all having the same object—the improvement and tran quillity of Ireland f—(Elear.) That was a question which on this occasion they were bound to ask, and especially those who sat in the last Parliament. And they were more bound to do so now than at any former period, because now they were in different circumstances from any which had ever existed when measures of coercion were introduced.—(Hear, hear.) He wished not to give Offence or hurt the feelings of any one, but he could not forget that a few nights past the Honour able Member for Marylebono (Sir Benjamin Hull) had stated, in a speech with which the House generally seemed to concur, that great blame was to be attached to certain associations in Ireland, the whole end and object of whose existence was to excite aversion and hostility to this country, and to hold up the law to the poor man as his enemy and oppressor. According to the descriptions they had heard, the poor man was kept for a long time on the verge of insurrection, on the brink of crime, by the exciting language addressed to him, until at length he plunged in. The law seized him and made an example of him, but those who were re presented to be the poor man's instigators, those who really were the causes of the crimes he committed —did the provisions of the law attach to them?—(Hear, hear.) Again, an Hon. Gentleman whom he saw opposite, and who had addressed them in a short and impressive speech which rivotted the attention of the house, alluded to another subject—the priests of Ireland. He wished again to avoid raising any angry feeling; he, as an Englishman, took the Irish system as he heard it de scribed by those who were more familiar with it than himself. He was told that a priest denounced from the altar by name some gentleman who he said was the poor man's enemy. The poor man took aim and shot the person pointed out ; you hanged the criminal who fired the shot, but the not less culpable instigator of the assassin escaped.--(Hear, bear.) He who charged the weapon, who directed the aim, did the provisions of this law threaten him ? — (Hear, hear.) Again, they had heard and read, and they knew from official statements, that the facts were true, that wholesale ejectments went on in Ireland. A whole village was turned out in the road, the infant and the aged, the hale and the sick were thrust out; their cottage was fired over their heads; they took refuge in the nearest ditch, without a roof to shel ter, or a crumb to feed t h em. The wretched outcast, f ee ling that the law gave him no protection, took the law into his own bands, and avenged himself. The pro visions of this law applied to him —he would be taken, tried, and executed. Well, the rich man, who by one despotic command , mi g h t at any moment j eo p ar di se the lives of his fellow-men, did the provisions of this law affect h i m ? He had alluded to agitators in Ireland, but he hoped that in doing so he should be acquitted of wishing unnecessarily to throw a stain on any of those gentlemen by whom agitation was practised in that country. He had read the history of Ireland with some attention, and he could not disguise from himself, nor was he ashamed or afraid to avow his conviction, that every act o f justice which Ireland had obtained from the British Legislature had been obtained by agitation. They had heard gentlemen in that House, and holding high official st a ti on, dec l are t h at if they had been Irishmen, they would not merely have been agitators, but repealers; and he himself felt that if in England one hundredth part of the injustice done to Ireland since the union had been committed, he did not believe the English:Government would be in existence at the present moment. These were facts which they all knew, and therefore although he could not approve of the exaggerations which they were accustomed to hear called forth, or of the proceedings to which those who took the lead in Ireland lent themselves, still he must say, that those men being lovers of their country, and seeing the miseries which she had been made to endure from the policy pursued towards her— miseries which, accord ing to Lord Devon's report, were borne with unexam pled patience, and submission —were to be excused, and that he would not criticise their behaviour at all times; nor ask thorn to restrain their language any more than to repress their feelings. The grounds on which the Bill had been introduced referred to the state of crime now so prevalent. But appalling as were many of the statements w hich his Right Hon. Frie n d su bmitted to the House,•s it was not the murderers the mse l ve s that to him formed the most horrible part of the picture; nor the fact, though it was a most painful ono, that you could not get the inhabitants of the district to appro• hend the assassins; to him the most horrible consider- anion was that we had allowed this system to go on ever since we had known Ireland, and that up to this moment I we had made no progress in remedying le—(llean) After referring to oft-repeated demands for coercion Bills, by Sir James Graham, Lord Althorp, Sir Robert Peel, and Mr. Goulburn, he went on to say that, the Earl of Clare stated—" Happy would he be if he could go to his bed-chamber at borne without enceun tering an enemy, and could close his eyes without ap prehensions of having his throat cut before morning, and seeing his wife and children butchered before his face ; he should be extremely happy if he could ride or walk abroad unguarded, for it was a curious fact but that when he went out his Irish servant brought him his arms as regularly as his hat;" and he concluded his speech by offering a villa and six acres of land to i.ny Englishman who would go and reside there for six months, being perfectly cealain that the terms would never be complied with. Ile (Mr. Horsman) begged to observe that if any H on . G ent l eman wou ld refer to that speech, it would re p ay hi m t h e perusal, and would, per hapsisurprise hi m to see t h at Low, 33 years later, Ire land was precisely in the same state as it was then ; that they were still deploring the sa-ne crimes, and tracing them to the same source—not political, not religious, but all agrarian—and listening to the member of Govern 'richt whose duty it is to bring forward the tale of horror, as if they bad heard it for the first time, and unless other measure; were to accompany the one now before the House, they were following the perniciot.s example of former Parliaments, and devoting their energies to the eradication of sybsptoms, leaving- the malady untouched. He had stated thus much,' not mere_y in vindication of the course he had pursued, and the vote he had given last year, but for a better reason—viz., that he was perfectly prepared to place all the powers asked for in the hand; of the Adminis:ration—and greater if ne- cessary ; and if the statements of crime were to be relied on, he thought greater.powers were necessary; he was ready, he repeated, with perfect confidence, to give them those powers, provided he saw an equivalent in the shape of remedial measures. He wished to see the re medial measures going hand-in•hand with the coercive measure. He wished to show the people of England that they (the Parliament) were in earnest on the sub ject of Ireland—that now was the time to put an end to the system hitherto employed in governing Ireland— feeding the people one year and coercing them the next—both foolish and costly operations—the burden of which fell on their unhappy constituents, who, as the revenue tables showed, were called to bear it with di minished means ; and, as the Chancellor of the Exche quer would; no; doubt tell them by and bye, with in creased taxation. He felt that this was not a time to trifle in regard to Ireland. For 33 years we had been at peace with every people in Europe except the Irish; who could tell how long the peace of Europe would con tinue, or when the Irish war would be brought to a ter mination ? He felt that they were standing on a vol cano. They had hitherto, by Heaven's mercy, escaped the judgments they deserved for the enormities that had been committed by the Government in Ireland. Let them not attempt to go further in that direction. Let them retrace their steps, and, by entering upon a new course, show that their repentance was sincere although long delayed. He sincerely trusted that her Majesty's Ministers, by their remedial measures, were prepared to show that they were equal to the emergency. The Noble Lord at the head of the Government had the other evening sketched some of these measures. He told them that ho had an important measure in progress, one which he (Mr. Horsman) saw with immense satisfaction —he meant a measure for the sale of encumbered estates. He thought this a measure—he would not say the first in importance, but it was certainly one of the most im portant they could possibly introduce. The Noble Lord had also said that he contemplated introducing a mea sure for the improvement of the jury laws. He presumed that measures for amending the franchise and the muni cipal corporations would follow as a matter of course. He regretted, however, to have heard the Noble Lord speak with so much doubt with respect to the Landlord and Tenant Bill. lie (Mr. Horsman) admitted that there were difficulties on the subject ; but in his opinion there were no difficulties in the government of Ireland but what would be aggravated by delay. — (Hear, hear.) He admitted there was danger in Ire land, but ho believed the danger would be greatly in creased by half measures. He felt that the present Government had, with respect to Ireland, an unsual load of responsibility; first, because of the manner in which they had succeeded to office—pledging themselves pro perly and manfully, and he was sure sincerely, to a re medial in opposition to a coercive policy—and next because they had entered upon their legislation for Ire land with an advantage which no Government had ever possessed before, and ho doubted whether in our time any Government would ever possess again—he meant a perfect absence of party feeling. The government of Ireland had been placed unreservedly in their hands. Upon that point there was a complete unanimity both in and out of doors. Parliament had given them absolute power. The courage and capacity to turn that power to the best account Parliament could not give them, but these were qualities which neither time nor Parliament would suffer to be dispensed with.—(Cheers.) Mr. W. FAGAN felt that these crimes called to Heaven for vengeance, and would sooner or later call down on the perpetrators a just retribution. He ad mitted that they paralysed the efforts of the best friends of the country, and made them turn with disgust from the political arena; and he would say, honestly and fearlessly, that if he thought a Coercion Bill, or Curfew Bill, or an Arms Bill would prevent the perpetration of a single crime of that nature, he would be satisfied, as an Irishman, to live for the rest of his life without the pale of the constitution in order to effect that object; but he had a strong conviction that the proposed measure would have an opposite effect to that anticipated by the Government—that instead of going to Ireland as a mes senger of peace, it would have the effect of increasing the discontent, and consequently crime. Remedial measures would alone cure the evils of Ireland, and he understood that last year a kind of pledge had been given by the gentlemen who now had the Government in their hands, that this was the policy which they would adopt.—(Hear, hear.) The House had been told this evening that therre had been nineteen murders committed in one month in Ireland. At the very period when the late Ministry brought forward their Bill there had been fifty murders in one month, and that had been one of the grounds put forward by the Right Hon. Baronet in support of his Bill. If the present Government thought, upon that occasion, that a Coercion Bill was Not necessary when fifty murders were committed in a month, where was the necessity for one now, when only nineteen were committed? Ile (Mr. Fagan) was convinced that the ordinary laws were sufficient. It had been said, and said truly, by the Right lion. Baronet (Sir G. Grey), that the peasantry and farmers armed themselves because the law allowed them to do so; it was for self-protection. He knew it was for self-protection, and he asked if the possession of arms by the farmers in the five counties could be the cause of these crimes if, instead of fifty murders a month, there were only nineteen? lie asked whether. if this was the case when the possession of arms was permitted, the House could think that the possession of arms was the cause of these crimes? No; the cause lay deeper than the Government were disposed to look at. Let them not imagine that a Coercion Bill, an Arms Bill, or a measure of this kind, would be an effec tual remedy, or prevent the commission of these crimes. The remedy lay deeper; the remedy had been pointed out the other night by the Hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. S. Crawford.) In Mayo the people had been dying 500 at a time, and had there been a single murmur of discontent? Go to Clare, where the starving people explored the rocks for sea-weed to support existence, and where the whole rental of the place was not suffi aient to support the thousands of paupers. And what had been the conduct of the population towards the shipwrecked passengers of the Stephen Whitney? The starving people gave the little food they had to sustain persons who, for the moment, were in a worse situation than themselves. The question was, why is it that, in three or five counties, these crimes were annually committed? Let the House look back for centuries, and they would find this singular fact, that al most for centuries there had been a struggle going on in particular localities; and the question was, why in these particular localities these crimes should exist? There was an unceasing, an almost permanent struggle between the proprietors of the soil and the occupiers of the soil. It appeared from the evidence taken by Lord Devon's commission, that eight acres of land were considered sufficient for a family of five persons, and that there were a great number of farms in Ireland not exceeding eight acres each. It had been recommended that the small farms should be consolidated, and the consequence would be that 15,000 families, of five persons in each, or 71,000 persons, would have to be ejected in order to consolidate the farms, as suggested. A consolidation had been going on in Tipperary, and that was quite sufficient to account for the crimes committed there. The Go vernment should come forward to prevent this, instead of suggesting a coercion Act,which, so far from:preventing crime would have an opposite effect. Two great causes existed in Ireland to account for this state of things; namely, the undue competition for land, and the en cumbered condition of the proprietors of land. The rental of Ireland had been said to be 14,000,0001., and by some even 20,000,0001; but it was, in fact, only 12,000,000 L a year, and from this must be abstracted 4,000,0001. for mortgages, leaving only 8,000,0001., out of which the landlords of Ireland had to meet and grap• ple with the difficulties which beset them, and he, there fore, would advocate a measure which would enable them to get rid of their burthens. The other cause. the undue competition for land, could be met in no other way than by a system of public valuation. The Bill which had been prepared by the Hon. Member for Rochdale would be a means of tranquillizing Ireland and introducing something like peace there. Perhaps he might be told that he ought to have confidence in the administration of the Noble Lord, seeing that the Chief Secretary for Irelaad had told them that a Bill in favour of tenant right would be introduced for Ireland. But even if he had such confidence, ho would say the Noble Lord was bound to introduce that Bill prior to any mea sure of coercion. The House ought, as its first step, to conciliate the people of Irieland. He admitted that the House deserved the gratitude of the Irish people for what it did lastyear ; the people of England also deserved the gratitude of the Irish people for their extraor dinary exertions in subscribing a sum of not less than 700,0004; and he had fondly hoped that the days of co ercion were over; that after these signal acts of kindness mndu?st belfehs:.igled to that House. The Home Secretary expected no further measures of coercion would have been intro ducedmuch good from the New Poor-law; but ho would inform him that the New Poor-law would disappoint his expectations. Did he think that tsystem o f cultivationt he pe o people lien Ireland e a r n e Ireland: the quarter-sore 'clause in the New Poor-law Act would find himself mistaken.—(Hear.) A free -trade measure had been passed, the consequence of which was that the 1 t d h e tranquillizesys before any benefits could be derived by the farme • e r, but no such change would be effected l un ess the tenant obtained a deeper interest in the soil th an he now pos. sensed. A good deal had been said in the previous de bate about expressions used by the Catholic clergy. Those clergy, he believed in his conscience, to be the link that bound this country to Ireland. By their in structions they kept the people of Ireland tranquil and submissive to the law, and he did not think it became any Member of the British Legislature to bring charges against those men. Reference had been made to lan guage used by a 'venerable Archdeacon (Laffan). He believed, however, that that venerable individual only wished to draw a distinction between the sturdy charac ter of the English people and the more excitable people of Ireland, and that it was ne intention of his to incite to the commission of crime. He was incapable of such a thing. He was a religious man, teaching the highest morality to the people; and no man that knew him would for a moment attribute to him any intention of the kind imputed to him.—(Hes.r, hear.) In conclusion, the Hon. Gentleman said he should consider it his duty to divide with the Hon. Member for Nottingham (Mr. O'Connor), but he had felt that he could nut do so with out stating to the House his reasons. Lord JOCELYN expressed his regret that the mea sure was not of a more stringent and efficacious nature than it appeared to him to be. He much feared that the measure which her Majesty's Government had laid upon the table of the House would not be found sufficient to enable them to cope with the state of society now exist ing in Ireland, or to put down that monstrous crime and that system of assassination that had disgraced the cha racter of Ireland in the eyes of all civilized nations.— (Hear.) He was sure that there was no body of mcn embus,' with the common feelings of humanity Hho would really have opposed any requisition which tha Government might have made to enable them to crude the cruel and dastard conspiracy which had been so long in operation ; a conspiracy working silently but effec tually for the destruction of a class in Ireland, who, were their faults even as hideous as they had been fre quently pourtrayed in that House (which, as a general fact he denied), had yet a right to the protection fir life and property which every well ordered state was bound to provide for its citizens. He held it to be an implied compact between the State and the citizen that this security should be made sure. The State was bound to the citizen, and the citizen to the State. This was the groundwork, the foundation of all government ; it was for this purpose, mainly, they admitted the con trol, the interference of the law in their daily actions. If the State failed in this compact, see the position in which the member of the State was placed. The law rendered each citizen powerless to increase its own power, but if the law was itself powerless then he was in a worse position then when no law existed. The law as it existed in this country was the terror of the evil doer, and regarded with affection by th e we ll- con d ucte d. The law had had on its side individual exertion to carry into effect its ends. It had had the feeling of the great mass of the people, which accompanied it. Here, then, it might be strong enough to meet any emergency. But bow different was the picture in Ireland ? There they found in certain districts the law neither regarded with reverence by the well-disposed, nor with fear by the wicked. It was neither a protector nor an avenger— paralysed, powerless—giving no encouragement to in dividual exertion. In certain districts another law was in force ; a most mysterious and bloody one, carrying out its dictates with certainty, and revenging with blood the trangression of its ediets.—(Hear, hear.) But although such had been the result of the struggle, al though the law as it existed might be momentarily defeated, it was in the power of the Gouernment of this country to cope successfully with its anta gonist ; a vigorous determination and a bold front, and the ultimate supremacy was certain.—(Hear.) The Government had a reserve at their command ; on them must rest the responsibility whether the power they demand is sufficient for the purpose ; they are responsible for the lives of th e p eo pl e o f reland. If they asked not for sufficient powers, on them would rest the responsibility for the future ; if such powers were asked for and refused by the House, then on them be the responsibility. In seeking a remedy they would not fail to investigate the causes of the disease, and there were circumstances connected with these agrarian con spiracies well worthy of consideration. To want and po verty. too often the parent of crime,these agrarian outrages could not be attributed. Such was the opinion of Chief Justice Bushe in 1832. Crime was not greatest in the localities where the sufferings were most intense. They found amongst the most striking features this law of agrarian outrage passively admitted. The districts in which these atrocities took place evince no horror of the deed, and no effort for the apprehension of the murderer ; ready emissaries were found to carry into effect its behests ; in the broad day, on the public road, within a few yards of the police barrack, without fear, shame, or remorse, the doomster carried his bloody orders into effect ; he com mitted the murder and walked quietly away. Although men with arms in their hands were sitting within hear ing of the cries of the victim they remained unmoved. This showed a state of moral depravity, indifference, or cowardly fear, in which the very character of human nature itself seemed changed, and every man must seek for a solution of such a state. These were not singular features in these atrocities —es uno disce Quarles ; but it was impossible to believe that even in these dis tricts the milk of human nature had entirely ceased to flow; it was the inefficacy of the law, as it existed, to meet the difficulty. And who were the victims? Were they composed alone of the bigot, the harsh, tyrannical landlords —men, who had justly earned for themselves an unfavourable notoriety? Were they men of penu rious habits, careless of the wellbeing of those about them? No; the kind, the gentl e , th e lib era l an d open handed, alie fell victims under this reign of terror. It might be said the sins of the father were visited upon the children. Heavy indeed was the chastisement they now bore. Parliament had a right to compel the land lords of Ireland to the performance of their duties. But whilst these duties were rendered imperative let not the Government be unmindful of its first obligation; the landlord had a right to demand from them that his life and property should be secure. The Government had on their side men who knew Ireland well. Did they believe that a paltry Arms Act would be sufficient to meet this frightful system? Did the Right Hon. Member for Dungarvan (Mr. Sheil) believe that such a measure as this would meet the difficulty? Did be believe that the murderer would find no other and us sure a weapon to carry out his design ? Did he believe that the evidence for prosecution would be more easily in duced to come forward ? Did he believe that conviction would be more readily obtained by a jury ? Publishing proclamations and writing letters from the Castle, how ever able the documents might be, were not sufficient, Active and vigorous steps could alone meet the evil. He admitted the energy of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government in Ireland. But they acted unfairly to one who understood the position of that country, in not enabling him to carry out his view. He approved of that part of the measure by which a locality would have a pecuniary interest in bringing criminals to justice ; but let the power be given of making domiciliary visits not only by day but by night. Sir G. GREY—For what purpose? Lord JOCELYN—Let a right be given to search for arms. But, above all, let an inducement be given to men to come forward in support of the law. If by tenant right was meant the claim of an outgoing tenant to re muneration for capital invested in the permanent im provement of the land its justice must be acknowledged, and the moral obligation of the landlord God forbid that any one should deny. But could any one really believe that the legal acknowledgment of such a claim would be sufficient to satisfy a secret council whose laws were written in blood, and if tenant right meant what misguided men had been taught too often to believe—if it meant to give the tenant a vested interest, not in the capital which he had laid out on the land, but in the soil, such a pro position was no other than open and avowed robbery. It was a proposition which required no argument to re fute it, because directly opposed to the rights of property, which were held so dear and so jealously guarded by every member of that and every well ordered State. Should the time come when that right might be regarded with less respect, he did not believe the authors of the change would be more prosperous, more happy, or more secure. Every commission which had been appointed, every individual who had turned his attention ro Ireland, had wound up his opinion by stating that until life and property were made secure, no means could be successful to advance the state or to improve the condition of Ire land. Should the measures which the Gavernment proposed be adequate, should it be their lot to give security to life and property in Ireland, they would have thrown a bridge over an abyss which had hitherto kept Ireland back in the scale of civilisation and improvement —they would have thrown the first plank upon which might pass with security, and upon which would pass, he had no doubt, with rapidity and energy, capital and enterprise, diffusing life and vigour through that hitherto paralysed country. Mr. R. M. FOX (as we understood) thought that unless such a tenant right as would permit the sale of the whole tenancy to the tenant were admitted, Parliament would not at all succeed in doing away with the cause of agrarian distui hence. It was to the unsettled state of the law of landlord and tenant that the crimes which disgraced Ireland were mainly owing. Lord BERNARD believed that he would be wanting in duty if ho did not urge upon her Majesty's Go vernment to press forward this measure, and for him self he should h ave p re f erre d a f a r stronger measure o f coercion. —(Ironi ca l cr i es of " Hear" from the Irish Members.) It was b e tt e r to outrage the Const i tu ti ona e at the present mome nt, if they could tl i ier a e r byg o v r e ) pen prosperity, and security to Ireland. — (f lie had received from a gentleman. residing addressed to e in the county of Cork a copy of a threate n ing notice and received by him, in which he was told to take timely notice that " ho and his vagabond (meaning the would be made an example to th e gwehnotlieemcoeunn'e agent)tryift heydid not mind and behave better to their tenants." That threatening notice was ad dressed to one of the best landlords in the country,— (Hear, hear.) lie was able to bear his personal testi mony to the manner in which the peasantry of the most distressed districts of the country had borne their sufferings.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. P. SCROPE said ho believed the time had now come when the general opinion was that the condition of Ireland was also the question of the condition of Eng land, for the condition of Ireland now came back up on us, in the shap e o f h eavy mulcts upon country. We cou ld not allow Ireland to e r c e a m p a i i t n alof in t t h h e e state in which she had been for the last twenty or thirty years without England being dragged down to the same miserable and distressed condition by the invasion of Irish poverty and the example of Irish crime. He had opposed former coercion Bills for Ireland, on every oc casion, on the ground that Parliament was not justified in passing any law of increased severity for the punish ment of Irish crime unless they at the same time took into consideration the causes of those crimes —(Hear) — security to the occupying tenant against harsh eject ments—(Hear)—security to the honest and industrious tenant that he would enjoy the fruits of his industry, and removing the fear of that destitution which was the pre vailing source of crime in Ireland.--(Bear, hear.) He , 7 • ;# 1 ..........._., I did not oppos e th e measure now b roug ht befewe tbst, I House, b ecau s e h e th oug h t w ith man y H o n. Meembeif: . that it was a measure of a much milder character :tip he had an ti c i pate d. S t ill , h e f eare d t h at t h e measure 3,1 would be totally ineffectual and worthless. Its obj, ct Was to give security to person and propertjr; If h• thought it would give increased security either to life or property he would support it. There was only ono way of giving security to the life of the rich, and that was t 4 giving security to the life of the poor man. The fir A step, theu, was to secure the life of the peasant. ',Peril i- ment made an advance in the right direction last yen: e. '1" The poor-law must ultimately prove a valuable meastn 0 for Ireland. But those who expressed astonishment ' that the poor-law had not produced a greater effect in ' the prevention of crime in that country should remember that it had only been in operation about a couple of months ; in fact it was hardly in operation yet—(Hesta hear) and it was unreasonable to expect th C the feelings of fhe people of Ireland, the result of centuries of misgovernment, should be tl ready removed and changed by th a t Ili I. The Irish Poor law, however, only protected the live- of the most destitute classes in Ireland, who would ahme accept the severe terms it offered. But the crimes i a.. lated to the House that night were participated all sympathized in by a much higher ei ra tnher dlsaurgggsteerceldfil, namely, the occupying tenants, who sanctioned or obtained the perpetration of such trim s. One of the objects of the present Bill was to prot, ea property in Ireland. Well ! let Parliament protect this property of fli7 occur, ing tenants in Ireland, in or• ~t. that they might not fall into the class of destit•aw paupers. It was the fear of falling into that state, l'a4 induced them to take a phit in the comaiiion of criti, 6 It was a puzzle to 'inlay persons how such crimes col. lit be brought about, but the explanation was simple enough. If he wanted to describe the matter in a 1.6 winds he would say, that they arose in the struggle for the means o f su b s i stence, and to reta i n the 'Meninx)" which the peasantry of Ireland for the most part p. , e. sessed in their land. There were a million of occupy ing tenants in Ireland, and the means of living of three fourths of them were confined to the possession of land. These outrages wore also frequently commived by persons deprived of other means of living ; a farm labourer turned out of his place would find others t 4 sympathize with him, and revenge his cause. In all cases it was a question of livelihood ; the people dreaded the loss of the means of subsistence. This stimulated the great mass of the peasantry to combine in those secret associations, and carry out the sentences passed in their midnight tribunals, by means of the low. eat class of ruffians hired for that purpose. Lord Devon states that the cause of agrarian outrages was always disputes as to the holding of land, and the attempt of the peasantry to convert the tenant's possession into an in defeasible title. In the north of Ireland the establish ment of tenant-right had prevented the commission of these crimes ; but even there, when a tenant had been evicted, without receiving the price of the good-will, outrages had been the consequence. It was said that these crimes were confined to a few districts of Ireland 1 but there were few counties where they had not at coals tune broken out ; with the single exception of Dublin there was no county where they had nut at some time prevailed ; and they always followed some series of evictions, for the sake of consolidating farms, which caused other tenants to dread a similar expulsion. l'ht quietest and most prosperous part of Ireland was the province of Ulster ; and there the system which was the object of this kind of intimidation was fully carried out. The tenant right was the secret of the prosperity of Ulster ; and he could not understand why persons took, such alarm at the proposal to establish it throughout Ireland, when in Ulster it had proved so beneficial The landlords there got as good rents as those in any part of the country, as they were sure, when a tenant left, to get his arrears paid by his successor. The cause of these outrages was the endeavour of whole classes, per fas out nefas, to maintain possession of the mesas of supporting their wives and families by their own ill. dustry. Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, I should be unwilling to let the first night of the eebate on the proposal of her Mr, jesty's Government pass without taking the oppor , ser aity of publicly declaring that it is my intention tI give a cordial support to that proposal.—(Hear, hear.) I cannot resist the force of the appeal which the MORS Hon. Gentleman has made to the House. The Iti l efv Hon. Gentleman has told you that her Majesty in Ir. Speech from the Throne has recommended you to teks . into consideration the state of Ireland with referene: to the prevalence of atrocious crimes, to the impueir, of the offenders, and to the inadequacy of the exits law to give protection to life and property. The Aft lion. Gentleman has justly said that this House, with out committing itself to the details of any particula measure, has, in an unanimous Address to the Throne conveyed to her Majesty an assurance that it will taite• this subject into its immediate consideration.—(llea; • The Right Hon. Gentlem a n h as a l so tru l y said that at Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland and her Majesty's Govern ment, charged with the heavy responsibility of givinr protection to the subjects of the Queen, in return ft. the allegiance which the law exacts from them, cols sider the state of the law to be imperfect, an,' that on their responsibility they must demand midi tional powers. The Right Hon. Gentleman has fortla that claim, first made solely on the responsibility those charged with the Executive Government t• reciting details of crimes which can leave no doubt o • ir. the mind of any man that it is our duty at once to as tempt, at least, to arrest the progress of what I believe t be one of the most sanguinary tyrannies that ever % isted in any country—(Cheers)—having a claim to called civilized. I assure the Right lion. Genthure that I cannot resist the force of that appeal, because is precisely the same appeal which some two years sills I myself made in vain. —(Loud cheers from the Opp,* tion bench&s.) Now, Sir, let me not be mistaken ; most fully admit that I think measures of this nature no remedy for the social evils that prevail in Ireland. admit the justice of the observation, that they are t. remedy for the evils in the social state of that cow st Nay—for I will conceal none of the objections—it is e: ways with great reluctance that I have consented s propose, or that I consent to support them, becalm there is this evil attending them, :even with refersx merely to the peace and tranquillity of the county that it is impossible to propose them without, L some degree diminishing confidence in the efficacy of M. ordinary law, and paralysing its operations.—(Hea hear.) But still, when I hear, upon the authority of Sir Government, and when I find the statement confirms by evidence, that there exists in Ireland a conspiracy for the Right Hon. Gentleman told vs he has the bet grounds for believing that a conspiracy does exist—fc the purpose of employing assassins, in order, with°, reference to age, sex, property, or condition, to depris of their lives the faithful and unoffending subjects of br Majesty—l say the permission of this practice is such scandal, that none of the objections that may apply t the measure appear worth consideration, compared wit the evil of conniving at or permitting that scandal I exist. And although I think this is no permanent et reedy for the state of Ireland, yet I for one will not aid I will not postpone my consent to this measure till I hes what are the other measures, what are the more perms nent remedies the Government has to propose. Iwi enter into no parley or negotiation with these assassin 1 say it is our duty, if we wish to lay a foundation ft the permanent improvement of Irelana, to do all we ca to preserve the lives of her Majesty's faithful and lor subjects in that country; it is our duty, without ultent considerations, to endeavour to paralyse the arm of * assassin. —(Hear, hear.) I will not wait for other ruar sures, though I think other measures are necessary. hope the House will apply its deliberate consideration t the present proposition though I feel that Ireland, as part of the empire, ought to be as dear to Englishuse as England itself, and requires the same consideratio; I feel strongly that no evil can afflict the state of Irelat that will not react on this country; whether it be wet of employment, misery, or poverty, depend on it, ti evil effects of these causes will not be limited to the 06 of Ireland; they will react on the state of society Ler on the position of the labourer, and the remuneratir he gets for his toil. I feel all those things strong)• and acutely; yet I am bound to say that any or who expects immediate results from any measurt which are to be permanent in their operation, well it tentioned as they may be, takes too sanguine a view the power of legislation to remedy evils of long endurane The length of their assurance is no doubt a reason ft the immediate consideration of them, but that is a rem( which should make us cautious lest, with the best L. tentions, we might in endeavouring to correct them, fa by hasty proceedings, into the worst legislation. Tak, the remedies generally proposed. One is emigratice At first sight, it seems a simple matter to transfer ti superabundant population of one part of the empire to colony in want of additional labour; but whe n yo t u he co c r i . transfer onl to address yourselves to the subject you fee l all i o th n ou th t e g ret st 4 of Ireland, populationyoufi nd how of ffi Irelandcul t i t s o is : n o y o uat portion euies of the t i; WI make the abstr t a h c o t u ir gorfeattheexppoepnulseatiaond w n tell Gentleman (Mr. Scrope) h as dwelt much, namely, the improvement of the r e l a ti ons b ey , * trouble.—(Hear, theHen. hcar which .) Then there is th e measure r landlord and tenant. The Hon. Gentleman has laudab directed much of his attention to that subject, and kr adverted to the good effect of the tenant right in VIA those e er as compared with the stat e o f th i ngs in Conning distinctiona nd Munster; which ut there prevailsm may is be provinces,eau for tat' therefore, I would advise the Honourable ~.entleraano to rush too suddenly to the concl • usion that the lee lative introduction of the same Munster would at once pre duce there the same effect. There is another If4f. Gentleman who is equally entitled to commendation to. the attention which he hadgiven to this subject , I all* to the Hon. Member far Rochdale (Mr. S. Crswfort who has in his own case set an example which ma landlords might well imitate.—(Hear, hear.) I asst• to the justice of the principle which I understand hl. to contend for. Ido think that the tenant—particular in Ireland, who has there to bear expenses which tt tenant in this country does not bear, such as, prohls the expense of the erection of the place in which ha t to live—l do admit that the tenant who has irnprot his property ought to have some claim against the owe* of the land. I think that a principle of justice—(life hear)—but I have heard it contended that the app tion of the tenant right of Ulster is no remedy for evils of Ireland, but that you must go further ; that ys must g ive the tenant a right (against the adverse rigs of the landlord well-founded in law), to sell the occupun% without any reference to any improvement he may h 4 i made. I must say that any law of such a kind, so lt from having a tendency to improve the condition of occupying tenant, though it might produce a tempors• lull or quiet for some two months on the part of t immediately benefited by it, would be calculated 1 than anything else to shake the confidence,, t o di m i the stimulus to improvement, and to lead t4o confiscatit and would be as fatal to the well undenttood inten of the tenantry as of the proprie tors.—(Hu hear.) I, for one, think that there pt fight to be 4'