The Sun. — London, England, 1817-07-12 00:00:00

could not to the totion a greater scrv7ce te , an to rescue it flonithe datigetous desigos stab -men, What could.afford greater relief, to the honest and industrious man, than a measure which enabled him to carry on his business without 'dread of the dagger of the ruffian, without fear of the attacks of theamorincipled and the disaffected Parlia ment* would have acted the part of a driveller if it had gone into abstract discussions on the sub ject of a - Reform, when it was necessary for them to protect ale n ation•against the projects of those whose attacks were directed not only against the character, but against the very existence of Par:. liatnent: He (Lord Castlereagh) differed from the lion. and Learned Gentleman on the' subject of Parliamentary Reform. The changes which th e n o n. Gentleman wished to make in the Con stitution, he (Lord Castlereagh) considered to be of a revolutionary character.—(Hear, hear!) —He, for his own part, wished to keep the Constitution such as it was at present—to ameliorate it where the inroads of time made revision necessary— (Hear. hear !)—but, in his opinion, the phins of the lion. Gentleman went too far. He (Mr. Brougham) aimed at that which he (Lord C.) did tot, a nd he thought tended to the subversion of the Constitution. He wished to do that which would only go to maintain and improve it. He was of opinion that Parliament had in the present Session done more than could reasonably have been expected from them. He wished the state of public confidence to be looked at. Let this be judged -of by the conduct of those who were ever looking to the state of the country for their own interest. Let this he done, and the increasing confidence of honest Hod good men in the security of the nation would he seen, with much satisfac tion, to exceed every expectation that could have been rationally funned. Let the increased value of propertybe looked at, measured by the funds, which; at the time Parliament were called toge tiler,' had been at 62, and which were now 80; and a riew subject of gratulation would present itself. Deep as the distress had been at the commence ment of the present Session, he could not but think that* notch had been accomplished by the practi cal relief which had been afforded, and by the improvement which had taken place in the value of-property, and consequently ist the situation of those Whose industry depended on it. Never was there a Session in which Parliament had dooe more to valet e he people, and never were the effort's tar t h, t ifonrposem oewisely directed to the objects in vie. titan they had been in this instance. That wealth which _ we wieht to prize above All, other riches, the Constitution of the Country, had been preserVed by the measures resorted to by Parlianient, He thought none hitt an eticandid rill 1)e. coidd charge Parliainent with having .neg lected the diStresses of the people-. He could almost challenge the Hon. Gentleman to point out one subject of the complaint which had not been taken into-consideration. It was easy - to say taxes ought to be taken off in order to relieve the peo rte., but, neither io the Speech which had first been /made; nor in the Pamphlet which the Hon. Gen tleman had written, had it been shown thitt any one of the existing duties could with propriety he repealed. Was it nothing that what was last year called the permanent.expenditure of the country bad been materially reduced 2 It was true it loot hen stoutly denied on that side of the blouse that the suppliescallcd for in the last year were to be regarded a 3 the permanent Peace Establishment 3 *fort it had been repeatedly imputed to Ministers, that such, frOm their system, was its real conduct. NoW as the Hon. Gentleman had befit pleased to.assome that he (Lord Castlereagh) was igno ratit of those scenes which he had described in Ireland, lie would for the moment assume that the lion. and Learned Gentleman bad last year in his view of this subject been perfectly right. Was it then nothing, he would ask, that the expend Hire of the nation hind been reduced to 18,000,0001.; that was, seven or 800.0001. lower, than it had been calculated by the mos! rigid critic on the Op posite Side, that it could he possibly brought. If tilt:Committee on the Poor Laws had not been en abled to come io any determination on the enact ment which it might be proper to propose, would it be denied (hal they had given much of their time to the investigation of this most important subject. lit might further ask, had not a Bill been passed to sanction an advance of Exchequer Bills, for the purpose of completing public works now in pro gress ; and, in short, he might ask what there was that had itot been brought under their con sideration ? Was it 'lathing that a Committee had been appointed, on the Reports of which no fewer than 13 Bills had been brought in for the abolition and regulation of Sinecures. Such mea sures, it had been contended, could alone save the country, till it was found they were adopted by Government, and' from that time they bad no thing but objections urged from the opposite side, or seen only empty benches: The people of this Coitairy - tnight be assnred that it 'was sufficient for Ministers to adopt the measures suggested by their opponents, to determine the latter to endea vour, by every' means in their power, to deny them those benefits to which they had before cm-I to-Med the country had an undoubted claim. The Coudtitt 'of the lion. Gentleman in -bringing for ward the charges • urged in his speech, on the last dav of the Session, had proved that his only mo tive was a desire to make an lateek on Ministers at a tithe when they would least ,have ate oppor tunity of replying to it. In the early part of the Session, the course which he had taken*was-some what similar. He bad then called for no specific itulttiry into the general system of our emitmerce, or into any partienlar branch of if he •had darie's'o, lie (Lord Castlereagh) could assure 'the Don. Gentletmin theme would have'been found no disposition to'resist it on'the part of GovernMent. He Would hare found them ready to go- into such as inquiry. and Willing to give the subject all the consideration in their power. But this he had not desired. He had attacked the proceedings at Vi enna, at Genoa,, and Ragusa, and had -favoured - then with a learned dissertation 'on the ancient system of Europe, but had never called fear an bigenvy. Ile lead moved four abstract Resolutions, thcfirst of which declared the state of the country' to be very had, and the last in a sweeping manner described the present,systent to be the worst. that could exio, Mid represented that Which hadbeen' established by those who formerly occupied those" thrones which were now in the possession of their Icgi[llilaf e ter., 'l't►e Hon. bentlenlim of course was ready with hii. street against legitimacy, and So %rereigns who came within that description were sure to encounter severe criticisms from lath. He -had applied himself this evening with great energy to misrepresent the speech of his Right Hon. Friend. The language imputed to him.,he had not used. He had never given that character of this country's commercial policy which he had been described to have supplied. He had lamented that the system of other Governments was that of protections and counter protections, but never broadly eondewned the policy of the Government of England, as he had been supposed to have done. He repeated, bad such been the wish of the Hon. Gentleman, there was every disposition on the part of the Ministers to accord hiM as full an inquiry as lie could desire. With respect to Ireland, if what had been advanced by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman were true, he ought long since to have taken up the subject, by moving a personal impeachment against the parties. This was a course which ought to have been pursued by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Instead of coming forward with black and malignant insinu ations, be should have brought forward the mat ter in a regular way, and not have come down to make a speech of a libellous character, to which it was his hope. Ministers, taken by surprise, would not be prepared to reply. Mr. BROUGHAM said, it was very unpleasant for him to interrupt the Noble Lord in the course of his observations; but there were some expres sions which, for their own dignity, Members of that House would do well to abstain from using. Lord CASTLEREAGH defended the line of con duct he had taken. Mr. BENNETT spoke to the point of order. Mr. CANNING contended his Noble Friend had a right to repel the attack which had been made on him as he had done. Mr. Baouctiara only complained of particular expressions. He admitted the Noble Lord was called upon to defend himself if he could. Lord CASTLEAEAGH said he should always con sider such statements as had been made with repect to transactions in Ireland, to which Gen tlemen were very fond of referring, but on which they had never ventured to raise a single proposi tion (hear, hear !), to merit the character which he had bestowed on - it. It was likely to be most mischievous in its effects,. and calculated to coun tenance traitors to the Government. The Hon. and Learned . Gentleman had - indulged himself for half an hour in condemning the Sovereigns of the Continent as tyrants. Was" it, he would ask, to be expected that this country could long remain at peace with other Nations, it such language were to be held with respect to their Sovereigns in that House ;-language which if used any where but within those walk, would subject the party using it to punishment by the laws-,of• the cowl try. The Ministers of the Prioce Regent could not be responsible for the foreign relations of the country, if Members conceived they had a right to hold such a course. Ira answer to what had been said on the subject of Genoa (of .which he should have wore to say by and bye), with respect to the commercial system proper to be adopted, he would soy, that_ in.his opinion nothing could be more - onwise than to impose upon any Government of Europe a commercial policy which we might think right, hut which they would look upon as wrong. He could never sanction an attempt to extend our commerce by such means. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, however, though he was very indignant that this country should use its influence to protect the settlement made by the Treaty of Paris, was willing that it should be ex erted to favour the views, of British merchants in opposition to every principle of commercial policy. He would never consent to put our commerce in such an odious light as that in which it would be seen, if the course recommended by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was pursued. The ancient treaties under which particular exemptions were granted to British subjects, were not among those which he valued most. The Government might enforce such treaties while they remained in ex istence, but against the general adoption of the principle of which he must protest, and to such he could never feel himself authorised to become a part y. That which had been done in forming our commercial arrangements under the late settle ment of Europe, had been done on the ad vice of the Law Officers of the Crown, and had . been in strict conformity with the law of na tions: To this course we would still adhere, in stead of changing it for that which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would recommend. He would continue to act on those principles by which his conduct had heretofore beets regulated, instead of following the Hon. and Learned Gentleman through. those crooked, despotic, and tyrannical paths in which he seemed disposed to. tread. He would especially avoid doing this where weak ' States were concerned ; who, instead of being thus oppressed, had a right to look tip for succour and.protection from our magnanimity and justice. On the subject of SouthAnterica he had to say, that whenever . a question should be raised on the policy of this country towards that country, be was con vinced the House would be. satisfied that nothing had been-done for which the Government ought to reproach themselves. Commerce bad,sustamed no Minty in that quarter from. the measures that had been adopted. It was difficult to shew how greater facilities for the introduction of , British goods could by possibility be afforded. The tact was, with respect to South America the country had nothing to desire. At present some interruptions occurred owing to the war which now, sturbs that part of the world, and owing to the absence of all, settled government, but these were evils which could not be corrected by Parliament: With respect to the Austrian troops now in motion , to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman !lad re fared, hehad to state that theAuStrian corps d'ar mee now on its:march, was, be.believed, on its return 'from Naples, and news would probably very shortly arrive of its having reached Austria. the Inter ference with . Lucien Buonaparte he next justi fied, and. sheaved that the part which the Duke of Wellington had taken was perfectly in conformity with the provisions of the Treaty of Paris . . The .Hon. Gentleman bad ,represented Lucien Btiona parte (who perhaps had had the honour of his ac quaintance) as devoted to literature, the fine arts, rortr: - . His past sotaltssr . , I sa weiser, psosed to b a danger WIS cildriiSiZr. it sr, ight be said thats it was through him in a great inea 7 sure that 13tionaparte last ascended the Throne.-- He of. opinion, that the negociatnrs at' P a ris would have proved themselves besotted it they had • put the liberties of the Buonas parte family in, : competition with the peace. of Europe, and suffered the members of ;t to sit wherever they pleased in perfect liberty. The course which had- been s taken was, in his opinion, most lenient, and if it was thought that precautions, were now unnecessary, he could assure the House, though he would not now go into par ticulars, that -circumstances had transpired which proved the contrary. With respect to this family,- who had made the greatest inroada ever Madeaiptan the liberties of Europe, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman objected to any interference to prevent future plots, while he was for cramming reStrie-' tions, Of the Most odious character, on those lei timate Sovereigns, whom he called the petty tyrant,- of Europe. -Notwithstanding all that he (Nir: Brougham) had said, he (Lord Castlereagh) should adhere to his own avowed principles, and alter his conduct its no respect, for any thiUg that had fallen from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He then commented on the anxiety of the Hon. Gentleman to send forth his gloomy views. of the situation of the Country :before the—Ses sion had closed—before the declaratiou• from the Throne had been heard: He shewied that the armaments at present kept up in the se veral states of Europe, might be expected to be reduced as low as the most passionate admirers of peace establishments could desire, if they couldlor a time effectually repress that restless spirit which Still laboured to produce new revo lutions. The appointments which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had criticised, as having ex— cluded the diplomatic for the military character, he then defended, as having been necessary at the time they were rpade. Had not such person, been appointed as Ministers from this country, Diplo matic Agents must have been accompanied by General Officers. One must have gone with the Ambassador to. each Court. This would have given an increase of patronage, but such an ex pedient bad been rejected as inconsistent with ..sound policy. Both the appointments referred to had led to the most satisfactory results. For the brothe the foved (Lord Sfewart),thntigh he had not been bred up in the diplomatic line, yet his good sense and experience in the army had enabled him to render his country essential services. The manner in which he had discharged the duties which de volved upon ,him had satisfied, he believed, ail his Majesty's Ministers ; and he bored they were not such Unfaithful colleagues as to•conceal front him any cause for dissatisfaction, if such existed. He replied to. the observations made on the British Army now, kept up in France. The circumstance. of that corpa_ being annexed with the Allies, was, he believed, most fortunate, and had greatly tended to conciliate the Fretich people, and to remove from their minds all idea of conquest or dominion on the part of this country. He vindi cated the recent appOintment of Mr. Reynolds, and sheaved that be had made atonement for his former treason ; that . his evidence had been be lieved by three Juries ; that t- .e Freedom of the Guilders' Company in Dubin' had afterwards been presented to him by the Corporation of that City. This bad been given to him as to a person who bad rendered important services to the State, since it was on his testimony that the O'Connors: and other traitors were forced to confess their crimes, and to implore the mercy of that'Goverri meat which - they had plotted to destroy. He cons . tended that Mr. Reynolds bad served the country to a very considerable extent. As far. as he had beard from Lord Chichester, the Honourable Baronet could have nothing to impute to Mr. Reynolds for his conduct in business. -Govern ment would never have known any thing of Mr. Reynolds, even after he bad given in formation, if be had not been taken up to the Castle of Dublin for his anterior inter course with the traitors. It was then alio in self-defence he claimed his having revetiled the conspiracy, and was set at liberty. He was, at the time of the rebellion, in good circumstances,_ and a man of considerable property. As to . Mr. Manners, the office to which he bad been ap pointed was only one of 2001. a-year, 'and of no great political responsibility. Previous to: this appointment lie knew nothing of Mr. Manners, of his having been engaged in a literary work, or of his conduct having been arraigned. All that he. had done on receiving a recommendation of was to direct him to call on the Tinder Secre tary. of .State, who was to ascertain whether his manners, abilities, and education, rendered him fit. for the situation of Consul. The an swer was, that Mr. Manners appeared to be a man of intelligence and education, and he was•conse quently appointed. Ignorant at the time of his being the author of a 1:bel, he (Lord C.) had since made inquiries, as the fact of an appoiat= . nient having been given would not certainly pre vent its being recalled, it the individual were found unworthy. The Learned Gentleman had repre sented Mr. Manners to have received the sentence of the Court for slander. That transaction had taken place in 1812. At that period Mr.-Manners was studying the law. A short time after he ap plied to the Benchers of LinColn's Inn to be made a Member of their Society. A question was.then raised against his admission, on the very same ground 'as that now -mentioned .by' the Learned Gentleman, who certainly would not say that if Mr.' Manners was found worthy to be a Lawyer; he wits; not fit to he a. Consul.. With all Aisejeainttsy, of respectable body, the Benchers informed Mr. 14.1 that they could not admit. him .wittioutsprevions; inquiries. They then called son the person who had prosecuted him, for a stateMent-of his'strle of the case, anti on Mr. Manners for,bis,own s . M. then wrote to the present Attorney-Geher4 for his'opinibn on his conduct as - it stood affect 4 by what had passed in Court.. He (Lord : C.) . ,ha s q not known till now that Mr. Manneri had evert libelled Mr. Finnerty,. whom he bad ocaasionstoi prosecute himself, in the Satirist. But the ans' swer of the Attorney-General was' most factory. It stated, that he bad examined, the case, and that nothing appeared improper in Mr. Manners' conduct, that be had been,most unfairly libelled by Mr. Finnerty previous to taititig• tife Seri tin, • who hrougni - en actio:: iseermiet • • tits ill the " Satirist," which - acti the J Aige .and Jury thought so eirireiy unfounded, that only sixpence daneig'es were given. In conseq-ien- , . of this reply, and of their own inquiries, t e Benchers had informed; Mr Manners, that iHs eb atter stood justified, before them, -and he hmi been ad tnitted. ..••This. was another instance of the •pb - it too often displayed, On the - other side of the House, not to sift facts,:but to bring lorw`ard any - assertion• which ,tnight - .give the triumph of .n day. The next appointment Complained of vas, that of a Gentleman to . the,. post of (2011Stli at Genoa, and it was . objected to chiefly because tie had been an Officer. He(Lord'Ciihad known that individual- for twenty years, end, could confi 'd'entlyseteakto his being a most respectable cha racter. He 60 emnended, that because the Mar quis -Wellesfey't;- administrationjtail, appointed a Consul at Buenos Ayres, it . was not incumbent his Majesiy'SGov.ermuent to send .C.ousuis tut other parts -of ••South -America , that had \ vela bent selves _independent. He' would ant follow the - lion., and Learned Gent leman . into the Catholi: ..Qtrestiou„where - be -,had lost. himself in.cloods.; liciwever favourable he was to that quest hat, -.he deprecated the use that had been made of it to night. As-to the - Rebellion in lreland„ Iw.. knew that he (Lord C.) 'had incurred the ine4iable .guilt of protecting that branch_ of the tinned Em pire against the separation planned and . so nearly•; . effected' by traitors. ,He had vis.itaessed their en. - deavours to throW Cal:tinny oti and cha racter ; .-but he had meeer felt hem for ..: those who knew him would neer suspect him to be of.a cruel temper; to. wish to persecute e‘eii the -guilty in Ireland, or adopt any measures but tho4 . lvhich wort' calculated for the safety of the countiy.-L-(tleae, hear cruelties hod been 'conimittell., and be Jiitl deny that had, the blood-thns -shed should be on the heads - of those' who, had prooote - d - t t t rebellion, and those • who, svithout :joining -the traitors, 'tad not behaved its they-ought to tohave - done. Toe loyal • had been the persecuted and not the persecuting. • They had only:used the aims which . natnre geive them to protect their -Ik'es and property. Until the Martial Lau? Bill had been pasSeo, Govern, ment had had no: power to protect the loy,J,ny whom those •enortnities bad only been committed when they. had rcc:eived no,. protect ion it olu the Government,. aud Lad taken it.in their. own hands. It *as ungracious-tobring•such:ehafges, alter so many years had el spsed, Vnd.when the means of disproving them • no.- - longer exist It was. un manly for. Myr-iinis of individuals %eho might- have been made; to;S , iitier' under:the arm of the lily, but who had been spared. by the.-clemency of the Go•. verument, to employ that • impunity in calum niating those who had sayed them. After a si lence of twenty years on acts,- which, if Alley. could be .proved, should be made the •ground of regular impeachment, and when no Atteinpt of the kind•had-beewmade,• it was unfair 'that advantage should be taken of every debate to calumniate those who had protected the country. It was also unfair that the Learned' Gentleman should. bring forward such a motion as the present on the last day of the Session;•oo . ,there had been an understanding out of doors that he'only inte.inied - to record his protest without •entering into any details, and letting it rest. with tis Most-00ns name, for- the benefit ofpoSterity:—(Hear, hear !). Mr. BKOIIOI/01; in explunation,• stated, that • the - -scandalous libel of winch Mr. Manners Int& , • : • •• -• • •• been convicted,•and.for whicb,he bad. 'peen con 7.•, fined,: was not on the - prosecution tat „Firmer — On that of Mi . : . Hallett, a respectable Ma . gistrate in the country. Si r . F. BUIIDETT Contended, gat the enormities whiChthtt. Noble Lord had now ztehnowledged to lia've been . committed" in Ireland bad tfpt been pissed over for' twenty years- it! • si;. lenci. He remembered that-whilst•they had been-earried on? a H ia t t bad been made in this House fu - &elm's that it was highly illegal, and in-1)41'1)4n, •to. force Confession- by toil - ore: BR the influence 'of 'the Mi . nliteft'Of the day bad Irtvaited. ' At any rate, neithet.- twent y ycais, nor evcin` ftirtf;• shorld be a bar to preferring an ac:Jsatieni agai n st the, Miniiferrottbe country. •He then, alluded to ,tliE panegyric passeiPby - the - Nouie Lord on Mr: Reynolds, Whoie outy . fanit was that lreliad been e•og,g.'ed'ita rebellion then inveighed against tbe system of Euiploy!-: sliieS;:-`tniscteal3fs who, issuing from the Secretiiiiy of State r s - office, excited thate acts aftedi•kin on which Ministers' built their measures to' destioythe liiiierties'of the country: A - I;e'st-dted i that sortie time a person • had herr j sent to efeeiritigliini to pi.int the !dust inflammatory hand , — bias, Which were to he sent - 10 - a If. Nichols, 99, Black. fi s iars:road. "Thiprinter had e.alfed with a' copy---of thew at Lars'SidnioUtb r s Office, waitn4 a consider . - able a perselii liad . come to lima is -inform -ilia) that hit - Lordship was engaged. But what was its astonishment its fe.w,days after, yvh - tri Delcupd that - the'person who had spoken to !link itc - Loit Sidmbuth's Office, was thE very Mr. Nicholi . -for whoidtlit kills hail been . orelered. He (sir F.) ii6ievell. thai tio.tr r a.onriii;ted but what was the W`ari, of Govern . - - Inca itself. Tile Nufile tbrd was the only one who coante naneed tFaitn . i" . . IJi ought to britfgthern to trial if he wished tu prove that he wai not-connected ith thein. History shewed that employing spies was the characteristic of desp i i tic acid tyrahnical "Governments. Had the Noble Lore-been Nero's Miiii•Sr - er,. at . ..the • time' if conspniicies, he could not: have .uudie ny otheripecch against traitors- than I hat which fie had dildresked - to .. the House this night. He wished '..io verinuent at least to explain what they wanted. Was the Nation tti be governed by - despotic Acts of Parliament, sup by the bay,iliet out of thiors ?- . He instanced • the case of an individua4 — whoSe Petition . for - Pailianientary Reform was'l3olCtin the, I . able of the House, and who, from reading: that Petitj,M, to sEveral . otliCr ,, , before it was presented, 11;14 been ,seizq,lloatled OTII irons, and confined three months in Li - it - caster and then liberated . , as giii:ty of no 0f.... fence. -- S'iticli . was die 'effect of the power entrusted to ster4.-•He 6:ay owed allegiance to his King ; lie tiid . itct pro le§S iftto-the House i• but .4 the House would have it, let it say'S'o Vubliely, and riot entrap individuals :into acts whict: are aftericalals declared •-• Tire .•VF - 1:01IN EY-(4ENERAL defended the conduct of Mc. Reynolds, Who - bad notacted - as a spy, but as a wan who of a crime into which he-was engaging, and makes the fullest, atonement in his . power.- The charges against had been - made . at the .. .time for the purpose of invalidating his evidence; but his veracity. had been established by the verdict Juries.-- And us= to his being placed on the Grand Jneylately, Ministers. and their legal advisers had no thefi to . 60 - in it OA the Learned Gentleman !theist:lL : . The - Shtiltrs`oll - ii.er -bad-summoned that Grand Jury, like all otlieis,;ltorlo return tho - se bills of indictment in particular, io-altend . the. Court' of King's-- Bench on the regular 'l-insiii - ;;s. 'When summoned, .be had endeavoured to• excuse fhe'groirod-of , liis . having• received the Coraufis iiiorbT ConShr, 'but as' he Itad•not . departed immediately-the xEdsetArartioli - adinittetle.• As'to . •Castles, he.would say, that tiiii*ithirati'ding'whlstltad taken place, that Ministers would 4 033tIllvederrenteir dutyto - the country, if, with the statement iiftlifit-mailOnct - the'other facts• of - the ease, they bad not I)4l.7l.iOrt , theltrisoners, Weir atquitted, to-trial. He depre- Gted•theideethitta - verdiet of acquittal in their case proved "that - niA • diAlkiiney;existed in'the-country. He then defended The - iipPilititiiitift of Mr. Manners on the same grounds as Lord •Castleredgh. - "lfoless it were sliewn that the libel of which he t;•as..of--such -a•nature as to tap eae -his tioNrat (a&aeler . addleis•tenduct , as a Gentleman, no blame dottlVatiffeli liMoveinturnt. for emplOying him. Much had been said alibitt spies and informers being only used in despo tic countries. 'ibis was avery convenient-doctrine for thoza who were not averse to couspireeies themselves; but let it he