The Sun. — London, England, 1806-07-12 00:00:00

1 ter the law relative to the length of time for wet ting Malt. -After a few observations from Sir C. Price, the • second reading was fixed for Monday. GRENADA 'JOAN. Mr. VAIsISITTART brought in,a Bill for the further continuance of the Grenada Loan. Mr. BAKER In t:lll3ted . a cloubt : Of the propriety of • this continuance, anti wished for a convenießt op-' portunity of discussing'its merits. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the Bill,which went to vest the property in-the hands of . Trustees, to be sold for the repayment of the Loan. Mr: BAKER wished to know, whether any in quiry had been set on foot to ascertain whether the money had been fairly applied in the West Indies, and not- pPlied to local purposes in. Scotland ? Mr..MACDOVVAL said, not a shilling of the money had been applied to local pro=poses: Every exertion had been made to restore the affairs of the Grenada Merchants, consistent . with the. little facility given by the late Law Officer :Of - the Crown in Scotland. The object of the Bill was to dispose of most valu able property, and to pay every debt remaining due. Mr. - R..Du NDAS' vindicated the conduct of the late. Law - Officer of the Crown for Scotland, in regard to this business'. Mr: MACDOWAL explained. Mr. JOrn,isTotiE supported the Bill. 'Mr. BAKER explained. • Mr. Fit. ti 9oridernnecl gperally such.advances of the public money for the relief of private necessi ties., He defended this Bill, which went to procure the repayment of-this particular advance. - The Bill was read a first titne, and ordered to be read a second - thrie to-morrow. Mr. BANKES stated, at the Bar, that he had been to the Lords to demand a conference, on the subje& of the last conference (the examination of Lord Teignmouth), and that the Lords bad appointed the same to be held on Monday next, in the Painted. Chamber. Mr. HOBHOVSE felt bithself under the-neces sity of calling thettention of the House to a cir cumstance which might involvessome blame to him self; but in which 'he trusted to the indulgence of the Hduse. A Bill (Sir John Gordon's Divorce Bill) had been taken from the Table of the House, and carried up to the' Lords, which had not passed this }Rinse : the Lords were unwilling to part with,the Bill without a .MeSsage from the House to recall it ---(q laugh) ; but a Message, therefore, he was under the necessity of moving for. There were precedents of similar. mistakes and- similar Messages, 'but he could not call upon the_ House without takincr some blame to himself for an inadvertency, which he sup posed must have happened to him, aain„o-us Chair man. of the Committee of Ways and Means. He moved 'that a Message be sent to the Lords, desiring that Old!' Lordships would send back the BAXER `tva's not 'surprized that such mistakes should occur when the ddry of tire Chairman of the Cckimittee of Way s and'Means was performed by so mAny persons. He wished to knoW who was the real Chairman. ' Mr. HORHOtISE said, it was Well known that the chairman of the Committee of WayS and Means (Mr. „Alexander) .was much absent in mak ing preparations for his departure for a Foreign Set, tlement. From_ friendship to that Gentleman, he 14‘ generally performed his duty; and whenever he was- not, -present, it was done by some other Gentleman, for the convenience of the House. He - ivaS content to take the blame of'- the inadvertency upoim himself, as having aoled most frequently. After a few - words from Mr. B ! , ,KER, it was or dered that a Ales-gage be sent to the Lords, to desire them to return the Bill. _ Sir JOIIN NEWNRT moved the third' reading of the Corn Intercourse Bill. • Mr. FOSTER said, he could not , suffer this. Bill to pass without Saying a few words upon it. He hoped that the House would . still pause before they . gave their assent to a Bill which might be produEtive of such serious consequences, and he was surprised to find that the Hon: Baronet persisted in carrying it through at- so late a period of the Session, and after a division in which there. was only a majority of four in favour: of the Bill. : He had before stated, that lie approved of the principle, of this . as tending. to ;establish a free i,ntercourse be tween Great Britain and .Breland.; but . he con tended, thaf to establish a free intercourse before any regulations:were adopted respelling the Expor tations and Importations of Corn -to and from. Fo reign Countries, Might be attended with the most serious consequenceS ; and as. it .was admitted that the House had not then sufficient information be fore it to :enable . it .toframe thse regulations, he could not - see why the whole of the subj26l might not be postponed till next Session, ,when - there would be ample time tbr the full dicussion of the stbjea.. No- possible inconvenience could ensue from this delay, because by the Corn Laws at pre sent subsisting Great Britain and Ireland gave each other a• mutual preference : he therefore begged leave again to express his hope that the Hon. Baro net would consent to put`it off' till next Session. • -Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that as these points hadfrequently been discussed before, he should pow trouble the House very shortly. The question bee fore the .House was a very simple one, and as. they had before them the) precedent of a case exaelly iu point.,•there was no reason to apprehend those seri ous consequences which the Right Hon. Gentleman had predi6ted. In the case of North Britain, a.free. intercourse in Grain had subsisted' with England: for many years before any common medium was esta blished -to regulate their trade with Foreign Coun tries.. ,It was only last year that the. general: average between England and Scotland was adopted, and yet he bad never heard that any evil or inconvenience . had resulted to either Coun try from- the. free intercourse which had previ onsly , subsiSted. He perfeialy agreed with' the Right Hon. Gentleman that it would be wise to. establish. some common medium; all he contended for was, that that -point.might be arranged, at a future period, and that-in-the mean time no inconvenience could result from the establishment of a free intercourse. The Right Hon. Gentleman had frequently spoken., of the late period of the Session at whiCh the Bill. was brought in, and had complained that the People of Ireland had not had sufficient .tiu)e .to become acquainted_With the measure. Ile aegged„leave, however, to state, that the Bill had now been before.. the. House for several weeks, and he had received letters from various parts of Ireland, Cork, Waterf7rs,3, Limerick, Etc. containing opinions upon this Bill those 'opiniOns were decidedly' in favour of tile-Bill, even though it-should not be pos.: sible at present to estbli4li the general average.: The Bill Was then read i third time, and passed. Mr. HonnotrsE moved the Order of the. Day for The third reading of the Nabob of Arcot's Creditors' Bill. iIIr.,RIDER proposed a Clause requiring the Commissioners .to produce the grounds of their decisions ,in• all cases wherein Parliarnnt should, on th 6 appeal allowed by the gill, hwe to revise those decisions. This Clause was, opposed, on the ground of the immense trouble -it would give to Parliament in looking over the Minutes of the evidence taken before the Conimissioners. After a long discussion, the ,Clause • was withdrawn by Mr. RYDER, in - consideration of the objedionstnade. to it.- The Bill was then read a third time and passed. TR'EASURER OF THE NAVY. Mr. WHITBREAD rose, in pursuance of his notice, not to move any, proceedin g in the present ,Session, but that.the House should, as early as pos 'sible, nest Sessien, take into consideration the Act ,of the 25th of George.lll. relative to the Office of the Treasurer of the Navy,. Every One must have read the Report of the Committee appointed to ex-_ aznind the Lords' Journals; and every one must have felt deeply interested. with some points of the Report. In answer to one question proposed by the Lords to the Judges, it appeared the Judges were of opinion, that it - was not unlawful for a Public Accountant to apply to private uses Public Money, and that on proof of the same, he was not. liable • to any criminal indialthent. If that really was the Law, and if the majority of the Lordslhad acquitted Lord Melville in consequence of - the opinion of the - Judges so delivered . ,, it was high time that the Law should be altered, or that if it were not the Law,. that the Law should be declared. It appeared •by the opinion of the Judges, that the Public had long laboured under gross delusion with regard to the Aid of the 25th of the King, and tharit was in the ,power of the Treasurer of the Navy not only him self to draw'out 'of the Bank, and dispose whereso ,ever he chose, sums of 140 or 150,0001. but ,that he might depute others so to do, and to place those sums even beyond his controul. It also appeared . by the decision of the Peers, that the .assigned lances might also be used with impunity 'for the emolument of the Treasurer of the Navy. He trusted that his Right Hon. Friend near him (Mr. • Sheridan) would devise some better means of 'con trouling his successors than those - which a Noble Lord had brought forward. After dwelling •on these subjeas, he concluded by moving a Resolu tion, that the House would early in the next Ses sion take into their mitt serious consideration the Aa of the 25th of George 111. c. 31. entitled, 'F'An Aa for the Letter Regulation of the Office of the Treasurer of thit Navy." A short conversation ensued between Mr. LEI CESTZR, Mr: WHITZREAD, Mr. Dull s; SnE,RIDAti, and .Mr. PEncrvAL; after which Mr. Whithread'sMOtion was agreed to. Mr. DUN DAs, Oeing a Noble Lord in his place, wished to ask him whetheeit was his intention (as he had formerly declared) to bring in any Bill for the better Regulation of the Fisheries on the Coasts ? Lord TEmrt.E replied, that it certainly was his intention . ; but so many circumstances were .to be, considered,' and so many opinions consulted, that be found it impossible to do so in the 'resent Session. He pledged himself; however, if 'he retained the situation which 'he now held, to bring the subject before the House early in the next Session. Mr. HUSKISSON postnned the Resolutions of which he had given. notice for to-day to Mohday., .Lord HENRY PETTY withdrew the Motion which . he had, given. notice be would bring forward i n th e . 'Committee of Supply for making a 'compensation to' the Commissioners of the Land Tax, because their ' claim was 'Complicated, and would 'require investi gation. He proposed, however, to submit to the .House a ,Notion on this subje& early in the next .Session." ROYAL FAMILY. _ . Lord HENRYHENRYhaving moved the second reading* of the Royal Family Bill, Colonel WOOD rose, and ye-stated all theargu ments he had adduced on a former evening against the Bill : he recommended economy td. the Noble Lord, and "proposed that a Select and Secret Com mittee should be appointed to inquire into the claims, of those Branches of the Royal Family to which the Bill before the House was intended.to apply. - - Mr. W. SMITH expressed his confidence that his Noble Friend would Dot need the leEture en economy that had, been just read to him, but could not avoid coinciding in some of the Opinions of the Hon, Gentleman who had just sat down. He praised highly the conduct of His Royal Highness the Duke of York, in 'declining to apply for any additional provision: Were the depreciation of mo ney, and - the increased prices of every article of life alone to be considert.l, he was willing to admit that the Claim preferred was a just one. But there were . other circumstances, which, in his opinion, ought to be attended . to: It ought to be recollee - ted that . se- . Veral of the younger branches of 'the Royal Family enjoyed emoluments independent of their Parlia mentary Provision. It vvas with a view to as certain those emoluments that he had made his Mo tion the other evening, and really until the Papers for which he had then moved were on the Table, he did :not see bow the House could, with pro : - , priety, pasi the Bill before them. 'lt had been well observed by Lord Bacon, that in sonic situations voluntary poverty was a debt that a man owed to his Country. Far was he from wishing that the Illustrious Personages in question should be plunged or allowed . to remain in poverty. " He-Was solicitous that they should not be deprived of the due ap pendages of their rank ; but it became a question whether or not the measure proposed was' calculated' to increase the respea, that ,it was so desirable to secure to them. Colonel Wocm explained. • Mr. ROSE strongly supported the Bill. With regard to the - emoluments that had been alluded to, it ought to be 'recollected that they were .of a very fluftulting nature. He thought the augmentation proposed a very moderate o❑e. Lord H. PETTY thought' that the only _question wAs, whether, when the Salaries of every subor &nate person in the = State. bad been, within 'a few' years, so much increased;- it was- wise. to exclude From the benef4 of that general atgnieritation a . class of' persons whose splendour and chrnity were so, in~r.~Zatcly cbune,qed N.vitli . .those. of die Nation. -A4cling• t 2 His Royal Highness the Duke of York, he deScrily, , ..d his situation a,s very'different from,that ,of his Royal, Brothers. • The income o hii Royal Highness, independent of • his emaluments as ,Com mander in Chief, amounted to 2 1 ,0001. a . year: The Bill Ivas then, read a second time and alter a few words . from Mr, DuNrms, Mr. Smi.TH,' , Lord ITENny PETTY, and Col. WOOD, ordered tp be corn, mitted to-Morrow. VOLUNTEERS Sir 11. MILb Min' had hoped that the Resolu tion which he was. about , to submit to the "House, would have been brought forward by His . Majesty's Ministers, and accompanied by all that weight, of influence which it was natural for them to command. As, however,. they had abstained from this proceed ing, he felt it to be a duty which he owed to the Country tO'stpp forward and propose what he con ceived to be but that which was due from the Rouse to a body of men who, he was perfectly .persuaded, had saved the Country • from all the miseries and horrors" attendant upon an invasion. After having detailed at considerable , length the rise and'progeess of the Volunteer: Z4yStem, and be stowed on it the highest praise, he alluded to the alterations ir:troduced by,the Right Hon. Gentleman , opposite, (Mr. 'Windham), with regard to, the 'abolishing of permanent duty, and the reduEtion of the Inspeaing Officers, and contended that these_ steps were calculated to be • in • the highest. degree' detrimental tiitht: System. He. was convinced that, ,the House must feel, with him that a VolUntark. force mast be much better cialculated to..be service able to the Country than the reluetant. Consc.ipts which the plans of the Right Hon. _Gentleman went to produce,. After d'ilating at considerable length, on these "topics, he concluded with moving aßeSolution to the following purport ", That this House highly approves and acknow ledges. the Services of the different Corps of Yeo manry ,and Volunteers hi the 'United Kingdom, 4nd they think it necessary to - record the opi nion that they entertain of the zeal, energy, arid. patriotism in which they have so essentially con tributed to the defence and security of the Country." Mr. DENT rose to second 'the Motion. The ,Volunteer Corps which he commanded felt great pride in their permanent duty, because it brought ,them nearer to the state of the Regulars, and they had been considered by the Inspcaing Officer as little inferior to the Regulars. . Some allowances ; were to be made for the expressions used by, the Right Honourable Gilmtleman respecting the. Vo lunteers—.-as, at the time he used them,..he was in opposition to a Right Honourable Gentleman Whose loss evety Village in the Kingdom deploredand the more_io, from a comparison 'of his measures with those of the present Administration—(hear, hear). There was another allowance too, because the Volunteers had not then proceeded to the same extent as at present. Next to d.iing the ac knowledgMent of error was prise-worthy. If the Volunteers were' properly atten , 3 , ...i to, they would be an effeaual Force for the defence,• and of. course. leave the whole disposable .Force of the Country to be detaoliedllan opportunity sh6uld oPr, . He had no object in seconding the Mdtion ; but that the .question relating-to the Volunteers - should not pass sub silentio, he ' should ask .the. Right Honour..thle" . Gentleman if in any future War .the services of the Volt r .`eers should be wanted, and he should, bR in, his present •Oflice, with . What grace could he call for their services ? It bad. been, told that the Pre-:. vious Question' was to be moved ,on this Motion., Het did not think „it would-7'lo would dare to move the. Previous .Question on such a Motion:. • 11.4 LPH Lll NKL, front what- he had. seen. and: observed of the Volunteers,- wad. convinced that no body of men could display more zeal, spi rit, patriotism, thfin They had in the defence .of. the , Country ; and he was Confident,. Nhenever an opportunity should offer, calling for their service's, , they would be' as eager to.embrace it as they been to.come, forg , ard in the .'first instance, for which they appeared to,deserve the Thanks of the House. As to. the Regulations that' had been adopted re speaing .the .Volunteers, .he confided in the ,talents and integrity of. His Majesty's IVinisters tb'r any mo difications they should think it :expedient to adopt, The Volunteer's deserved every praise ---He knew theM honest, and he believed them bold. Gejzeral PHIPPS had been one of the Generals 'appointed to make the Returns of the. Volunteers, and declared he had. made his. Returns most con scientiously. He had returned several Corps fit: to aa vith T:oops of the Line, but had not thereby - intended to state that They ,were equal to Troops' of the Line. Some of them were equal to. several Regiments of Militia. Many l.egiments of Volunteers in town'were capable . of pertorMing with .precision. those field maiimuvreswhich 20 years ago His Majesty's Troops could not have per formed, He WaS• not acquainted with the Volun teers in the country—but . he 'thought highly of them as a military force, and was sorry, to see them discouraged, though not, he was sure, : the intention of the 'Right Hon. Secretary. He was also sorry to see the. Inspe.Aing Officers dis Continued, and the Drill Serjeants abolished, because it would be irn• possible fin the Generals' commanding Distrias, and without the Drill Serjeants. the .discipline of the Corps would devolve on the Ordinary Serjeants, ge nerally.shoplzeepeF.s, who could not' attend to' the duty. He should feel himself bound to support the Motion of the Hn. Baronet. Secretary HATEILIAM assured; the Hon. General ; that it was quite a mistake to suppose the abcilition Of the Drill Serjeants. The allowance of pay to them had been greatly reduced ; but it was still ample enotigh for the duty they had to perform, being seven shillings for each day of exercise.' They are .not lere brought into the Corps for ,the duty, though' even so the 'pay would be sufficient. Many Volunteer.Orlicers thought the pay ample. He had never mentioned that the Inspsaing Officers had not made their returns cobscientiously in representing many Regitneuts fit to at with Troops of the Line. They, however, could not be equal to the Line. It they were equal to the Militia, they would be equal • to. the Line; for the'Militia had been now so long embodied„. that they were equal in their steadiness and discipline to most Reg;ments of the Line. But he could never think Volunteers equki, to Troops of the Line ; not .that they,had not the courage—men not Volunteep had that quality as well gs the V6,- lunteers. But there Was something more wonted tv 'give that factitious feeling which (Ambled Men ,to nCt spiritedly inbodies, It might be said that they were as good as new Regiments :.but in such Regithews there were 'experienced .Serjeeats and Corporals ; though, the men' maybe )744111:;,they_get a charaeter - that never dieS but with the extinftion of the whole., It was impassible the VolunNers, who 'were only occasionally called into the service, Cotild'be i tinal to those men Whose w'hole lives were dei'oted to the Army as a profession. He was surprised Were not ashamed of. the manner in which .thcy selefted particular expressions to suit their views, As to the immediate - question, he should ask whe. ther they were imperiously called on' to vote the Thanks of the House to .the Volunleers. It was first necessary to consider the reasons assigned ; next, whether they were sufficient— The Hon. Gentlemen opposite had shewn by their comments ;what their object was , in bringing the question, Which made it impossible for him. to agree to it.- They said as 'we were going to get rid .of the Volun teers we should give them ,a tene discessit. But his measure was calculated to keep the Volunteers. He only Nyished to place the Volnnteert on their original establishment. ~ The permanent duty bad been -abolished, I,)ecause it 'was a heavy espenco Without any adequate benefit, This duty in the iirst instance cost 300,0001. and afterwards it)8,0001. from the Colleaors of the, Counties ; in all about .100,0001. Was the saving that sum, half a mil no motive to do away the perthanent service ?. The Noble Lard opposite (Lord pastlerea g h ) he believed .opposed this. very permanent 'duty when first proposed. At any rate there was on the table a letter from Lord Hawkesbury against it. This permanent service had been engrafted On the origis. establishment. As to the Resolution,,he felt a strong,objeCtion to it, because the House ought not to give an 'Opinion what force the Crown was to keep up : The best mode of disposing of it was by the previous question, which he should support if any .Honourable Gentleman should think pr .)er to move it. • Mr. FULLER recommended to the Right Hon. Secretary to make up his breach with the Volun teers by assenting to this Motion. Mr. WitibliAm explained. , . ._ . . Lord °SS ULSTO N E moved the previmus question. Mr. BANXES approved.of the first part of the Mo tion, but rather disapproved of the other, as it seem ed, by implication, to convey a censure upon the conduCt of the majority of that House who had voted tbr certain measures relative to the Volunteers in. the course of the present Session. The Hon. Member, therefOre, recommended, that a • more ac ceptable Motion ‘ should be propcsed. Sir R. WituAnzs supported the original Motion. Mr. WiLBERFOIitt Ct.iticie(l in the •sentiments of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Bankes), and expressed his ap prehension that if the previous question were carried, it would, throughout the Country, be esteemed tant amount to an absolute. rejection of the Mo:ien, 'and . therefore produCtive of very injurious effeEts. Gen. TARI, ETON spoke in. favour of the Volun teers, and against the Ministers, vjho were, in his -opinion, very unWorthy• to succeed the illustrious person whO was now.no more. Mr. SHERIDAN rose, before the temper of the Debate should be changed, or any pledged opinions : given, to propose a middle course between both sides of -the -11.ouse, and which, he - hoped, would he acceptable to each.. In : .; - oceeding to consider this Motion, he begged to say, that his wish was to 'avoid all party allusion'. He did not mean, thereiore, touch upon -any inflammatory. topic, 'although rise Honourable General ,\VI7O just -sat down had -of fered sOm4 provocations, under the guise , of to regard • for the Memory ,Of Mr. Pitt.. That, tmtny, . Gentlemen on - the other side should often speak of ..that illustrious Person with, reverence :and yenci-a. tion was naturally to be expeaed, because the were his intimate friends, and had long ael e d w i t h hint. - But what was the motive or. feeling whi:s: led the . Hon. General to deal in such frequent culoeiums Bat to return to the question be;bre the fi'onse, the Right Hon. Gentleman stated his reason for net tending the House much for some tune back ; he - did ; not like to' be present at the discussions of these.. military subje&s, for it was to be recolleCted that the plans, brought forward by his Right , nourable Friend (Mr. Windham) were the plans of all the Cabinet, and retaining all his old opinion's respeEting the Volunteers, the Militia, and the Army, he.. was unwilling to oppose the great authorities with whom he differed. He did not, wish to resist the Views of his friends. The Right Hon. Gentle man combated•some of the objections 'of Mr. Wind ham to the Volunteer System, declared -that he . would never g ive a vote for the rcdu&ion of. that constitutional force, the Militia, and repeated his opinion that a free country could not long main tain its freedom, if it trusted altogether to the defence of an hired Army. Of the he _said that he much wished, that it should re main a dead letter, as the former Bill of the - same nature did, in consequence, he, was happy 'to think, of a recommendation or his . to a high au ' thority with whom he had then the honour of -having some influence. Had he an equal influence - with his Right Hon. Friend, he certainly wotild use it to produce a similar I:esolutiOn—namely', that if a certain number of Volunteers should come foi - word, this Training Bill should not be aCted upon. If that Resolution were adopted, Ire had' no doubt that vo luntary zeal would render a comptilsory levy Unne cessary. The Right Hon. Gentleman, after:exhort ing Oentlemen on both sides to concede soniet-ning, cot - landed with moving, "That this HOuse do retain the highest respect acid gratitude for the services of the Volunteers of the United Kingdom." " Mr. P.EECIVAL thought the Motion of the Hon. Member (Mr. Sheridan) did not go far enough. In his opinion the House ought to express a hope' as to the continuance of the Volunteer System. 'Lord HOWYCK observed, that all Votes of Thanks from that House had a double view—that of .rewarding fox the past; and that" of encouragement for what was to 'come. The K...ncibles', however, were reduced last War, and the Supernumerary Mi litia abandoned, without any Vote of hallks frOdi Parliament: Mr. CANNING said, that when the FenciOe Regiments were reduced, and the Suliplemenft:ry, Militia was abandoned, the -House, did not thaini. them, because their services Were don e With. Hi s non. Friend (Sir H. IVlilamay) had asked for any 4x.hortation, but: the Right 'Hon. Gentleman oppo-- . 1 )' ? '