The Sun. — London, England, 1847-02-17 00:00:00

irttrt Vuitton SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock IMPERIAL PA RLIAMENT (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair, but Ik n c oHouse was formed until nearly a quarter past Tw elve o'cl ock. S ECOND READING. The following Railway Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed ixeter and Exmouth Railway Leeds and Think Railway (Leeds, Durham, and Newcastle Extension, Ise.) Leeds and Thirsk Railway (Deviation of Main Line in Crimple Valley, 4c.) Leeds and Thirsk Railway (Knaresborough and Borough bridge Branch.) Leeds and Thirsk Railway (EagleclifF and Stillington Extension). Leeds and Thirsk Railway (Harrowgate and Pateley Branch, &c.) Leeds and Thirsk Railway (Branch from Melmerby to Northallerton, &c.) Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland (Extension from Athlone to Galway). Several Bills were brought up and read a first time. TEN HOURS' BILL. Petitions in favour of the Bill were presented by Mr. Ainsworth, from workers in Mr. Rider's factory, Bolton; from other workers in Bolton and in Huddersfield ; by Mr. Blackburn, from Warrington ; by an lion. Member from shopkeepers and others at Warrington; by Mr. Ferrand, from Bradford; and from a working man in Manches ter, setting forth that he had been engaged for twenty years in weaving cotton, that he was convinced the Bill would expel the heartburnings which had so long existed setween the employer and the employed, and that many middle-aged men who had been compelled to leave their work, in consequence of the protracted hours, would return to it if the Bill were passed into a law. Me also wished to know from him (Mr. Ferrand) if he could pre sent his petition to the House without his name being made public—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—as if it were made public he considered that he might suffer some injury. Mr. B. B, Cabbell and Mr. Fielden presented a number Of petitions to the same effect. PATENT BILL. An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from Bradford complaining of certain clauses in this Bill. LAW OF SETTLEMENT. Mr. FARNHAM presented a petition from the guardians of the poor of Leicester and Nottingham praying for the abolishment of the law of settlement, and that the support of the poor might be made a national charge. DUTY ON TEA. An ion. Mzmunt presented a petition praying for the abolition of the duty on tea. IMPORTATION OF GRAIN INTO IRELAND. Sir W. SOMERVILLE presented a petition from the Drogheda Union, praying the House to cause an immediate importation of grain into Ireland. ELECTORAL DISTRICTS. The Mx. BARONET also presented a petition from one of the parishes in that union, complaining of the present mode of rating electoral districts. THE IRISH MEASURES. Mr. PROTHEROE presented a petition from several in fluencial householders in Halifax, expressing alarm lest the measures proposed for the relief of Ireland would increase the taxation on the people of this country; and praying for the abolition of the duty on tea. Mr. B. B. CABBELL moved for a return of the number of persons who had received relief in the union workhouses in England and Wales from 1844 to 1846, together with the quantity and amount of out-door relief afforded by them during that period. EJECTMENTS IN IRELAND. Lord DUNCAN said during the ten years he had occupied a seat in that House he had often had to thank the House for the indulgence which it had extended to him on various occasions, and he trusted that that kindness and indulgence would be extended to him whilst he called the attention of the House to a subject of a personal nature. He was anxious to take the earliest opportunity of vindi cating his character, as a statement had gone abroad that some statements which he made in that House a few evenings ago were brought forward by him for the purpose of casting aspersions on the conduct of a Noble Lord, a Member of the other House of Parliament (Lord Lucan). It had been stated he had acted with discourtesy in not having intimated to that Noble Lord that he intended to bring forward the statements he did. He trusted that he knew his duty to that House toe well to act with discourtesy to any indi vidual in that House or elsewhere. It had been stated that he had made charges against an individual. Now he begged to call to the recollection of the House, that when his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Marylebone (Sir C. Napier) referred to some statements in a blue book, with respect to certain union workhouses in Ireland, he (Lord Duncan) rose after he sat down, and read the charges con tained in a blue book, which appeared to him (Lord Duncan) to be of a most appalling character. He stated—and he thought it would lie in the recollection of the House that he did so—that he trusted those charges would be speedily denied; but it would be equally within the recolleetion of the House that he made no charge against any individual. He merely read an extract from the blue book, the state ments in which were sanctioned by the Poor-law Corn znissioners, by whose assistants they were collected, and were published upon the authority of the Government. He disclaimed having made any charges like those imputed to him. He said this, and he repeated it, that the constitu ency which he represented (Bath) would not be satisfied if they were taxed to pay poor-rates for the relief of Ireland, whilst no such tax was levied on those in Ireland who were in a fit condition to pay it. He trusted the statement would yet be denied, that wealthy parties in Ireland refused to pay that tax, which the English people were called upon to pay in lien of them. No reflections which might be made in that House or elsewhere on his conduct would prevent him from doing what he considered his duty to his constituents and the people of this county. POLICE. On the motion of Mr. FRE WEN the following return was ordered :—" Return showing the number of police con. stables in each county, or divisionof a county, in England and Wales, under the Act 2 and 3 Vic., c. 93, distinguishing each class or denomination; including, also, a return of the name and population of every petty sessions district, in the said counties, the number ofpolice-constables stationed in each district, and the amount paid to the county police rate by each district; together with an account, in detail, of the se veral items of expenditure for the year 1846. SUPPLY. The House, on the motion of Mr. PARKER (in the ab sence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer), resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, and a vote of 18,310,7001. was agreed to for the purpose of meeting outstanding Exchequer bills. The House then resumed, and the report was brought up. Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the West Riding of Yorkshire in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill, and also a petition from the members of the United Trades' Association for the Protection of Industry, signed by 10,860 names, in favour of the same measure. Mr. DUNCANesented a petition from the Chambe r o f Commerce of Dundee against the principle of any interference with factory labour. ADJOURNED DEBATE ON TIIE FACTORIES' BILL. On the order of the day being read, Sir ANDREW LEITH HAY said, that during the course of a considerable Parliamentary experience his feelings had invariably been the same on the subject of any interference with the manufacturing interests of this country, and he con sidered it his duty on that occasion to state his opinion, not that he had the presumption to consider that his opinion would have any weight in the House, but having it in his power to bring forward the opinions of others which had most probably escaped the attention of this House. The other evening he heard the Noble Lord, the Member for the city of London, state that he considered that the question now had become, not a question of principle, but a question of degree. He did not consider that such was the case ; it was still a question of principle, and he thowybr .7 .y, z,ond all doubt, that the otea took place in 1833 cuusiaered by the House as an interference which at all established that the principle was conceded, and that hereafter it must only be a question of degree. What were the circumstances under which the Act of 1833 was passed ? It was well known to many Members of that House that a serious struggle took place in that Paitament, and in that year, between the adverse parties as to whether a Commission of Inquiry on the state of the factories should or should not be established. By the votes of the House the Commission was issued, and upon investigation it was found that in all the factories of Great Britain and Ireland—at least the cotton factories—the average time of labour was twelve hours. Some of them worked sixteen,- or perhaps seventeen hours, and others a lesser number. But they considered that twelve hours was not only the average time for labour in those factories, but also a judicious settlement ; and they gave it as their opinion that twelve hours should be the amount of labour sanctioned by Parliament. It appeared to him that it was only an adjustment to generalise the prin ciple, without interfering, or seeing the right to interfere to any extent to diminish the hour. of labour. lie had heard with great regret the declaration of the Noble Lord that he considered it merely a question of degree. It was the ques tion of degree which they had settled before interfering with the principle, and that in his opinion, and in the opinion of others better informed, would interfere with the manufac turing interests of this country. The first authority he should quote on the subject of the inexpediency of this interference was a name well known in that House—it was Mr. Leonard Horner, one of the principal Commissioners, who gave the in formation on which the Act - of 1833 was passed. Mr. Leonard Horner was, in 1837, appointed a Commissioner for the express purpose of giving such information as might settle the question, and an Act of Parliament was passed in the same year which established twelve hours as the proper term for labour in the cotton factories in the United Kingdom. Mr. Leonard Homer was appointed an inspector under this Act, having under his charge Scotland, Belfast, and other parts of the north of Ire land, and also three counties in England. He was subse quently removed from that district to another district in England ; and after he had been the inspector for some time, he wrote from Leeds to the effect that any interference on the part of the Legislature was uncalled for to limit the labour of persona over the age of childhood, as they were free agents, and stating that the reduction of the period of labour in cotton factories to ten hours would be at tended with the most fatal consequences, which would be first felt by the working classes. That was the opinion of that very eminent person, who was practically conversant with all the details of the case, and all the circum stances connected with it. He might be t o ld th a t s i nce t h en that gentleman had altered his opinion. He could show that mono not a very rapid alteration, for he would g i ve a bad L °een dum from his report in 1845—twelve ye ars a f ter h e L. /14, made an inspector of the f ac t ories. H e (Si r A. y) h ad got his opinion in his favour for twelve years , a* he would charge those twelve years against their opinion. 'ln his re port of the 16th of May, 1845, he gave an accounthoureannf experiment made at Preston by reducing th e I labour to eleven, and the re restrictionsult of that experiment clid no justify any further legislative of the hours of labo t the plea that if the hours were shortened the amouurirt—°o'fi produce was lessened, and that in a large proportion of the m anufacturing towns, if the hours of labour were reduced, the wages would also be t would certainly reduced. He thought that the experi be fraught with danger to the manufacturing interests of the country, and danger not only to the manufacturers, hacttuaretrs4ioburntetnott,hine agr i cu lt u rists also. The manufacturersa the part of Scotland to which he belonged —and where th manu f ac ture of cotton was carried on to e a great extent, were onl y working ten hours a day— but why ? it was from the depression of trad e , and not having markets for the g reater q uantit y of produce. That such a state of depression existed was well known to all, and it was a fact that these manufacturers had for years together carried on their business, and kept their machinery bmug, for the purpose, not of emolument , b u t in the ho pe of etter times for their trade. That was the present state of things, and he felt convinced, that if they did pass this mea sure as proposed by the Hon. Member for Oldham, they THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 17, 1847 would, in the first place, stop altogether a number of mills, the owners of which would not think it worth their while to go on under such circumstances, and would thus inflict a great injury upon the manufacturing interest of this country. He had a letter from a mill-owner in that part of the country, which contained a statement that this measure would be very injurious to their interests.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the working of these mills, it appeared rational to suppose that if the hours of labour were reduced from twelve to ten hours, it was absolutely impossible to suppose but that a reduction of wages must follow, and it would injure the agricultural interest by throwing a number of men out of employ ment, and making them dependent upon parochial relief. There was another point to which he would refer. It was impossible that a general Act of this kind could operate be neficially on all the manufacturers of England, Ireland, and Scotland. There would, therefore, be considerable hardship imposed on many of those parties. Till he had seen other reasons to alter his opinion, he must rote against the Bill. This was, of all other times, the most dangerous for trying such an experiment. It was not a time of prosperity, when it could be tried with impunity. He thanked the House for listening so attentively to him, and, on the part of the manu facturers of his county, as well as on behalf of the interests of the agriculturists of the empire, and the people generally, he must oppose the second reading of this Bill. Mr. BERNAL thought that, whatever side Hon. Members might take on the present question, they ought to express their opinions without exaggeration or prejudice. He for one had always been consistent on this subject ; he had never altered his opinion of its merits. Still he desired to state that he had no sympathy with any of the illiberal or vulgar attacks which had been made on the master manufacturers of the country, who, he believed, had generally acted with the best intentions towards the operatives under their care. All he asked of those manufacturers was, not to let prejudice affect their minds in the condemnation of the present mea sure, for he believed an end to the question must come ere long by the concession of what was now sought.—(Hear, hear.) He felt certain that three years would not go over their heads till a ten hours' Bill would; be carried.—(Hear, hear.) The Bill now before the House proposed to limit the labour of young persons between the age of thirteen and eighteen, and all females, to ten hours a clay for five days in the week, and eight hours on Saturday. That was to make the week's labour 58 hours, instead of 68 hours, as at pre sent. Now, in discussing the advantages that would result from the proposed change, he would deal only with plain arguments and matters of fact, and discard all poetry. He admitted at once that the arrangement would also limit the la bour of adults in factories. This being the case, he would address himself to one or two of the leading arguments employed by previous speakers against the Bill. It had been stated that if the hours of labour were reduced to two hours a day, there would in consequence be a reduction of wages in the same proportion ; and it had further been stated that the factory operatives were not prepared for that. He conceded the first proposition, that there would be a reduction of wages, but he must tell the House that the operatives had over and over again expressed themselves willing to take the measure and abide the issue. He recollected two years ago having a two hours' conversation with delegates from the manufac turing districts, and when this subject was named to them their answer was, "We are content to encounter the risk, and abide the chance of reduction."—(Hear, hear.) But he did not con cede the point that there would be a necessary reduction of wages to the extent named by the opponents of the Bill. He would call the attention of those who differed with him in opinion on this subject to the figures, the data, the facts, that illustrated this point. Had the Acts passed during the past year, for the regulation of the textile manufactures of the country, reduced the rate of wages? Between 1813 and 1833 seven distinct statutes had been passed on the subject of factories, and for the reduction of the hours of labour. He appealed to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Member for Dorchester (Sir James Graham) if such had not been the case. To talk, therefore, of the principle of the present Bill being new was therefore absurd. The details he had collected on the rate of wages at the different periods, he had collected from the evidence contained in the large blue books up stairs. As he had already observed, from 1813 to 1833, seven distinct Acts had been passed bearing on the question of factory labour. What, then, was the rate of wages in the different years? In 1833 Mr.f Holland Hoole gave evidence on the subject of wages, and his authority was the more important as he was well known to be opposed to measures of the kind. He states what were the wages in eight years, and the result is that the average wages of young per sons in Manchester was Bs. 4d. a week, while in 1833 they were Bs. 10d. a week, so that though the hours of labour were reduced, the wages of those persons had not been reduced, but rather had increased. And the advantage would appear still greater.wh in they considered the prices of provisions in relation to wages at the different periods. He begged the House to grant him its attention while lie proceeded to read the scale of prices which prevailed in the articles of food, and other necessaries, in each of these re spective years, and the House would remember, that in the intermediate period enactments had been passed limiting the hours of labour in factories. He found, then, that the price of oatmeal was in 1813, 555., in 1833, 255. ; butcher's meat, in 1813, 6d.; in 1833, 3id. ; soap, in 1813, 81, in 1833, 6d. ; candles, in 1813, 11d., in 1e33, 5-Id.; coals, in 1813, BP., in 1833, 3id. Salt, they were aware, was considerably reduced, and there had been a-reduction generally:in calicoes, articles of dress, cheese, and potatoes, amounting nearly to 50 per cent., so that while the young women in 1833 got nearly the same average wages that they did in 1813, they could supply themselves with articles of food and clothing at 50 per cent. less. Now if the House took the average weekly earnings in 1844 and 1845, they would find that the same facts were exhibited. In a speech of the Hon. Member for Durham, in which he entered at some length into the question of wages as existing in his own and other factories in Lanca shire and Yorkshire. The Hon. Member stated the number of his workers at 518, and their average earnings per week as 9s. ld. ; Mr. Ackroyd employed 745 workers, at an average weekly wage of 9s. 3d., while the workers in Messrs. Eccles' and other manufac tories, averaged 10s. 7d. Hlluded sto these facts merely to show that wages in 1844 and 1845 had not been reduced, although from the year 1833 they had passed two other enactments limiting the hours of labour in factories. He had, therefore, the right to assume that a doubt might be cast on the assertion, that the reduction of the duration of labour would be followed by a reduction of wages. He believed it would not, and he conceived that he had as good a right to prophecy as his opponents. When they were told that the health of towns was a subject of vital importance to all classes of the commuinity. When this subject was being forced upon their notice, in terms which could not be disre garded, could they, when considering this question, forget that the artisan was worked for 12 or 14 hours in a heated and unwholesome atmosphere; that women (workers also in factories) were torn from their domestic relations, and inter rupted in the midst of those maternal duties which nature had pointed out as imperative. Let the House look to the facts elicited by Mr. Fletcher, a most intelligent surgeon of Manchester. He, writing to the Honourable Member for Oldham, stated that he was startled at the statistical details set forth in various authorities; but after he had him self tested their accuracy, he was obliged to acknowledge that in no single instance were they overcharged. He had not taken one town or district, but had compared one with the other throughout the textile manufacturing counties. He had, for instance, taken one district in the town of Bury, and com pared it with another district in which a different species of manufacture prevailed. First, in the town district of Bury, which he had examined, he found that great mortality pre- ' veiled in consequence of defective ventilation, and that they number of years which each worker was employed in the factories did not exceed on an average eight years, while in some other kinds of factories the period exceeded fourteen years. He found that the deaths of infants in the towns averaged silty -one per cent., and in other districts thirty-two per cent. The Hon. Member (Mr. - Milner Gibson) seemed to doubt this, but the facts were accredited, and could be substantiated to the satis faction of the Hon. Member. Now in the district of Bury North he found the mortality as 9 1 ,4 years compared to 19 years in other districts, and the deaths among infants as 54 per cent. compared to 33 per cent. in other dis tricts. Now they had heard a great deal ot the necessity for the construction of pants, and schools, and athenaeums for the working classes, but he should like to know what period the workman had to give, or what phy sical energy he had left, to enjoy these walks in the parks. or th.,,r laecue,cuai recreation in athenaeums. would any Hon. Gentleman who knew anything of the physical energies of the human frame tell him that any man or woman had sufficient bodily energy at the end of six days' work in a factory to enjoy themselves in a park or an athenaeum ? It was truly said that manufactures at the present moment were depressed. Now, what was the cause of it? Why, it could be traced to the working of that mag nificent demon (if he might be allowed the term), the steam engine. By the aid of its powers the manufacturers of this country had overstocked every market in the world, and that was the cause of the depression in manufactures. The consequence of all this was that all the mills throughout the kingdom were working short time, and as there must neces sarily be diminished production in future, what harm was there in passing this Bill? Mr. DENNISTOUN was understood to remark that over production was an increase of good; it was net an evil. Mr. BERNAL denied that it was an increase of good, and maintained that over-production was a decided evil. In America they managed things better than in this country, and while the wages there were 15s. a week, ss. more than in this country, the hours of labour were much shorter. Still America was enabled to compete with British manufac tures. In France and Belgium the wages yrere lower than in this country. But it was urged that if this Bill were passed the price of manufactures would be increased in the home market. Well, perhaps it might, but only to the extent of a halfpenny a shirt. Then, again, it was urged, that if factory labourers objected to their present; hours of labour they could combine or turn out. This, he thought, was un generous, for in his opinion the operatives of Lancashire and Yorkshire were deserving of the highest eulogium, and were entitled to credit rather than odium for not having long ago resorted to a turn out or a combination. Now, why should the operatives be compelled to work more hours a day than the mechanic? There was not a mechanic in any mill who worked more than ten hours a day —not a smith, joiner, or carpenter upon the average worked in a mill more than ten hours per day, and why should the fac tory operatives be compelled to work longer ?—(Hear.) He did not tbink that five hundred men, employed together beneath a large shed, with this "demon power" urging them on, could be said to be men with free will. It was a very common thing to talk of educating the people, but he wanted these men, who were standing upon the soles of their feet, in an atmosphere of from 70 to 80 degrees, to have a little repose as well as education. A person occupied all the day in such occupations could not be supposed to turn to his scholastic duties, or afterwards take a pleasant walk in the park, or pluck flowers in the green fields. It had been said that the agricultural labourer was worked as severely as the manufacturers ; they were, however, always healthy, owing to the continued blessings of air and light. If the Government did not grant the request of those who were peacefully agitating fo - r the measure, sooner or later they would be compelled to do so. But it had been said that if this measure were passed other concessions would be required. He begged, however, for himself to state that the present was a Ten Hours' Bill, and as such he sup ported it, but if the operatives should come forward and request a limitation of the hours of labour to eight, he should most certainly oppose it. He found that there was a clause in the present till proposing that from the Ist of May, 1547, to the Ist of May, 1848, the hours of labour should be reduced to eleven ; but, that, after that period the time should be reduced to ten hours. He did not approve of the eleven hours' measure; he thought that it either went too far, or not far enough. He hoped that the manu facturers would not leave themselves open even to the charge of suspicion of avaracious grasping of that which they should not maintain, and which the duties of morality and Christianity forLa 1 them to hold. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said that he attended a meeting held in the Town-hall Of Rochdale, numerously attended t b y t h e working classes of that town, convened for Purpose of exp ress i ng t h e i r op i n i ons upon the subject of thee en Hours' Bill, and he asked them what was their wishes with respect to that Bill, and whether they whe ther they were willing the measure in that House, desired him to which might arise fromng to th receive any reduction of wages and part of the hall was ap e passing of that measure. One von app r opriated to fttnalee, and he asked them their opinion u subjects, and received the most enthusiastic ausvrer in the afftruruative. And, although the operatives of Rochdale did not constitute the whole body of the electors of Itochdale, still he felt it his duty to pay a due consideration to the wishes of that large body, and he considered that he was acting in conformity with their opi nions by giving his vote in favour of this Bill. Mr. DENNISTOUN said that the Hon. Member (Mr. Bernal) had challenged him to disprove his statement of facts, but before he (Mr. Dennistoun) did so, he must say that he was somewhat surprised that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government found fault with his Honourable Friend, the Member for Durham, be cause at ten minutes to six o'clock on last Wednesday he made what the Noble Lord called an attack upon him. Short, however, as the time for addressing the House was, it did not prevent the Noble Lord from making a counter attack upon his Hon. Friend, and at the same time upon a question of this vital importance, the first Minister of the Crown did not hesitate to say, th a t during the three mi nutes he had then to occupy the House he was quite pre pared to state his reasons for opp os i ng th e measure. Now, he confessed that his Hon. Friend stated one argument which, at the first blush, would seem to carry, if not convice tion, at the least great weight, and which, if it were not met, would place the opponents to the Bill in a different position. He alluded to the point made, that this would not be the first time that the State has interfered in the hours of labour. There had certainly been a reduction made from fourteen to twelve hours, but that was only a nominal reduction, and was not general throughout the country, for twelve hours had been always the average, and this being the fact the whole arguments of his Hon. Friend fell to the ground. He considered that to put a limit on the power of steam was the most absurd idea that could enter into the head of mar. The Americans had a natural advantage over the manufacturers of this country by about 20 per cent. In the year 1843 there were 400,000 bales of cotton spun in England, out of which 342,000 were expended, leaving only 58,000,000 pounds to be consumed in the country. The result of the measure would be to limit the production of the country to one-seventh. If they passed this measure, before many months elapsed, they would find it necessary to retrace their steps and to abrogate all they had done.—(Hear.) Mr. FERRAND said, when his Hon. Friend the Member for Oldham (Mr. Fielden) presented, this afternoon, petitions signed by many thousands of the factory operatives of the north of England in favour of this Bill, he could not help being struck with the contrast which the Honourable Gentleman the Member for Dundee (Mr. Duncan) pre sented, in rising immediately after him to inform the House that he had a petition to present on the subject from a different class of persons—from the members of the Chamber of Commerce of Dundee, praying that the Bill might not pass into a law. He was, indeed, prepared to admit that they were a very different class of persons. On the one hand, there were thousands of operatives re questing the protection of the House, steeped in misery and distros3 ; whilst, on the other hand, the members of the Chamber of Commerce of Dundee had presented a petition requesting that House not to listen to the prayers of millions of the people of this country. We were on that occasion to support the prayers of the millions—the toiling millions of England and Scotland, and in doing so he should offer no apology to the House, but ask them to give him his attention whilst he read to the House some extracts from the writings of a gentleman who was perfectly compe tent to inform the House what were the feelings of the ope ratives of England on this vital question. For himself he might say, that it was now seventeen years since he first became the firm advocate of a Ten Hours' Factory Bill ; but, at the large number of meetings he had attended on the subject, he had never yet witnessed one manufacturer who durst raise his voice at any of those meetings against those who had pub licly assembled to advocate this Factory Bill. He had never heard one manufacturer who durst meet his work-people and fairly argue the question which was at issue. If there was an instance, he should be glad to hear it. He saw the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward) taking notes; he believed it was not many weeks since he visited his constituents, and was obliged to admit that the people of this country were unanimous in favour of this Bill. Mr. WARD assured the Hon. Gentleman that he did not make such an assertion. Mr. FERRAND explained that what he meant to say was that he was obliged to admit that the factory operatives were unanimously in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill. The working populace of Sheffield entirely differed with the Hon. Member in his view of the question. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had informed the House that he felt it his duty to vote against the Bill, in consequence of his anxiety for the interests of the factory labourers. By the permission of the House he should like to read the details of the present state and sufferings of those operatives. The extract to which he had referred was from the writings of a Lancashire cot ton-spinner. Out of the mouths of those manufacturers who opposed this Bill he would judge them in the British House of Commons. If the statement was true, and there was no doubt of it, he would ask if there was any Hon. Member who had the audacity to stand up and say, that he was prepared to perpetuate in a Christian and civilised land a state of suffering and degradation such as that which he was about to read to the House, in opposition to the state ments made by the united operatives of the north of Eng land. Thisgreat Lancashire cotton-spinner stated that, asindi vidual manufacturers externally engaged in trade, they should not be suspected of wilful exaggeration of the evils of this system when they made the following statement. They should exaggerate nothing, extenuate nothing, but simply state the amount of evil that exists, and make suggestions for its cure. (The Hon. Member then read several extracts, which stated that children of 10 and 12 years of age, after being employed for a short time in factory labour, lost the elastic step of youth, the blooming cheek, and the vivacity of intellect, under the severe employment and the prolonged confinement, often resulting in permanent debility or pre mature death.) The gentleman who thus spoke of the factory system was no other than Mr. Greig, one of the largest cotton-spinners in Lancashire, who at the time he made these statements as in favour of the relaxation of the hours of labour; but now his mind had been poisoned by the principles of political economy, and he was associated with a small, and God be thanked, a decreasing band, of cotton-spinners in Lancashire, who denied the factory operatives that protection to which they were fully entitled. Mr. Greig went on state that from long hours of work, and from its severe nature—rendered more severe and exhausting by its often being performed in a close atmosphere--the workers found it neces sary to resort to the use of artificial stimulants; that many of them receiving the highest wages spend the greater portion of their leisure, more particularly on Saturday evenings and during the Sundays, in be sotting themselves with ale, and beer, and gin. The quan tity of gin drunk in this way was enormous; and it was painful to see children, even girls, being initiated into this practice. Ardent spirits were not the only stimulants they resorted to, as many of them indulged to a large extent in opium, which they took in the form of pills, and in other forms, which they called anodyne, which was cheaper than gin. It was much in use when wages were low, but now it would be an habitual stimulant. The general hours of work were from half-past fiive in the morning until half-past seven or eight at night, with half an hour for breakfast, an hour for dinner, and half an hour generally for tea, leaving twelve hours a day ror clear labour. The labour of spinning was most laborious, and perhaps was only exceeded i n th a t respect by mowing alone ; and few mowers worked twelve hours without inter mission. It was impossible anybody could work for twelve hours in this way without injuring his constitution Farm and other labourers seldom worked more than ten hours a day. Walking for twenty hours was considered a most intolerable punishment for witches, but they never could undergo their punishment longer than twelve. Many of the Members of that House were arguing about the great disadvantage of losing a farthing a pound on the cotton manufacture by reducing the hours of labour, in oppositon to the far more important question, namely, the sacrificing of the lives of millions of the people of this country. They said that it was the duty of the British House of Commons to refuse this Bill in order that the superabundant wealth of the manufacturers might be madelgreater than it was. There was not a cotton-spinner in Lancashire who d urs t a tt en d a puonc 7 ••- 3 of the large ma nufacturing towns, and there openly state, in the presence of numbers of the factor) , workmen, similar to that which had been stated in that House ; and if there was one Member of that House connected with the cotton trade who was prepared to dispute the policy of grant ing this measure before the factory workers of the north of England, he challenged him to go down to the town with which he was connected, where he (Mr. Ferrand) would meet him, and discuss the question with him at a public meeting; and he pledged his word, that although attempts had been secretly made to induce the factory workers in many parts to make statements in opposition to the Bill—and he should prove it to the House before long—he should show that the operatives themselves were anxious to work no more than ten hours a day, and that if the House would not legislate for them they would legislate for themselves. It was further said by Mr. Greig, that the fourth cause of the ill-health prevailing in the manufacturing districts might be traced to the weakened and vitiated constitutions of the women. They were employed after their marriage and dur ing their pregnancy, and that was known to every one, who had considered the subject, to bring on a weakened and debilitated condition to the children, so that when the children began working themselves, they were pre pared at once to succumb to the evil influences by which they were surrounded. Those were the facts delivered by Mr. Greig, guaranteed by him, and which he had published to the world upon his high authority. Was there a Member in that House who could gaiasay any one of them, or any longer maintain in the House the factory system, which had been carried on by the sacrifice of thou sands of the people of England? The manufacturers had also said, in a statement which had been circulated among the Members of that House, that if they carried the Ten Hours' Bill, let the Ministers be responsible for the consequences, their mills for the . and sw t ini O eo S t o l l o a t t o t f h t e h w e a b y on fo es r men and we W alt as h we ths,havdheoyifeahtmhhezaedessuteadrgrvroed l enormous pe o pl e o f E ngland to conduct them eoarmsolosus4f2a.r as to threaten to close purpose of creating event s s i m il ar to ete wLic d h ieg th ree ey efu sh ll o y ul t d e s t e h t e r . example? was After th theyatth e way in v in selves—and had carried the corn-laws, they still opposed the Factory Bill, after they had promised to give their support to it.--(Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT—No. said M Mr. F N E O. I , t , A H N e D — ( T iu h r e Honourable .Fernand) Member for that Durhamthey did, and if they did he called on them, as men of honour, to redeem their pledge, and if they did not do so they ought to be branded with infamy and disgrace. It w as no t th e Mi n i s t ers t h at would be re sponsible. It was themselves who would be responsible The manufacturers had d ec l are d th ro ugh th e i r representative . in that House, that if they were left alone, and legislative interference were not brought to bear upon them, they would immediately arrange the thing between the masters and .the workmen—that they would introduce the Ten Hours' Bill themselves. Had they done so? They had broken their pledge and promises, being determined that this disgraceful state of things should continue, and it was therefore the;duty of Parlia ment to interfere and to protect the weak against the strong. Who were the parties who interfered and told them that they should not come to that House to protect men? Did they come to protect men? No; they came for the protection of women and children, who were compelled either to work for this period or starve to death. It was their machinery which destroyed the system of manual labour and the hand-loom weavers. Many of them had been starved in the country; and he had been told, upon a very competent authority, that in a few years machinery would destroy the labour of 70,000 persons more. What were the manufacturers doing at the present moment ? Their mills were not running six hours a day. To effect good to these mills, their employment ought to be steady and regular; and they ought not to starve the people for one half of the year, and work them to death during the other half; and he had received accounts from Manchester, which said that there was a probability that the great majority of the mills would soon be entirely closed, and yet, during this state of things, it was proposed to retain the power of working the people for twelve hours a day. The first medical men in England had declared that no man was capable of working twelve hours during the whole year. They were longer than any horse or man could bear it; and women and children were compelled to bear it, and w. , re dying by thousands. Even the men could not bear the factory labour beyond the age of 45. The Hon. Member for Mon trose had said, leave the women and children to themselves, they would settle the matter with their masters. Did any man suppose that when a mother went to the mills, receiving only Bs. or 10s. per week, and returning she found her three or four children crying for food, that she would not work her fingers' ends raw, and herself to death, rather than sit down and see her children starving? He had even conversed with these women themselves, and they had stated to him that it was little known what their sufferings were. When they returned weary and fatigued, and saw their children in want, they would work, as long as God gave them health and strength, to support them. The Hon. Member for Durham, on Wed nesday last, when he saw the gangway, made some ex traordinary statements in his speech, and that in so deter mined and firm a manner, that he (Mr. Ferrand) had no doubt that the House believed them to be all true. The Hon. Member said, in one part of his speech, that such speeches as used to be made by Lord Ashley had not been heard that day, except from the Noble Lord the Member for Newark, and that Lord Ashley used to make speeches in that House which he had now given up, and which had been proved to be wrong. He (Mr. ]errand) was prepared to challenge the Hpn. Mem ber to prove that any statement Lord Ashley ever made in that House connected with the Ten Hours' Bill was not strictly true. It was not manly of the Hon. Member to come there and attack Lord Ashley behind his back. Mr. ROEBUCK here made some observation. Mr. FERRAND—" He could come here," said the Hon. Member for Bath. Mr. ROEBUCK—I did not say so. Mr. FERRAND said that he understood the Hon. Member to say so, and the next time the Hon. Member interrupted him, let him speak so as to be understood. The Nobie Lord was not there to defend himself, and he ( Mr. Ferrand) should be accused of ingratitude towards the Noble Lord, if he sat in that House and allowed his character to be so unjustly at tacked, when he had sacrificed his seat for the principle of this measure. The Noble Lord had published to his consti tuency a letter, stating his determination to support the re peal of the corn-laws, and he (Mr. Ferrand) was justified in saying that he (Lord Ashley) had received a communication made to him from the leading cotton-spinners of Lancashire, to the effect that if he did support them in obtaining the repeal of the corn-laws they would support him in his Ten Hours' Factory Bill, which the Noble Lord had supported during the best period of his life. The other day in Lancashire the Noble Lord attended a vast meeting, when no man dared to oppose him. The Hon. Member was in Rochdale, but did not meet Lord Ashley. Mr. BRIGHT—No I was not, I beg your pardon. Mr. FERRAND begged pardon. Why did not the Hon. Member meet him there, when his own brother appeared?—he had not the pluck to do it. The Hon. Bilember did not go to him face to face and make his charges. The brother of the Hon. Member had the pluck to go, and manfully spoke before his own workmen, but he was not able to g e t a s i ng l e man to se cond him. e again asked the Hon. Member what stste meat of Lord Ashley's which was ever made in that House lie was prepared to refute? Two years ago the llon. Mem • ber made some such statements as these against the Noble Lord, who was accused of having made some unfounded state ment in that House with regard to the childen in the factories. The Hon. Member for Durham had referred to a petition which had been presented to that House from Manchester, with 70,000 signatures, in support of a repeal of the corn laws, as a contrast to the petition of the operatives in favour of the present Bill, signed by 22,000. Why, the popu lation of Manchester was but 262,000, and the male adults there not more than 40,000, so that it would be impossible to get up a petition with 70,000 names, even if all the male adults signed it. He trusted, when the Bill went into Committee, the Hon. Member would get up and explain how this petition was got up, as he (Mr. E'er rand) believed that 22,000 was a fair representation of the opinion of Manchester. It had also been denied by that Hon. Member that the operatives were prepared to take the chance of the reduction of wages. He (Mr. Ferrand) had been lately at meetings all over the manufacturing districts, at which the question was always put, if they were prepared for the consequences of a reduction of wages? the universal answer was, they were. Meetings had been held at Manchester, Bury, Barnley, Rochdale, Preston, Chorlev, Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Holmforth, Keigh ley, Leeds, Glasgow, Paisley, and Dundee, at which this answer to the question had been given. It was not put at the meeting held at Edinburgh, because it was composed of factory operatives. Nay, a report of the meeting at Rochdale had appeared in the Hon. Member for Durham's own paper, the Manchester Examiner. Mr. BRIGHT—It is not mine. Mr. FERRAND—Then he was a shareholder, or had something to do with it.— (Cries of order). The Manchester Examiner confirmed the fact that the question had been put at the Rochdale meeting and answered in the manner he had described. At the very time the Hon. Member was making his speech last Wednesday a message was sent down to Bradford, and the next morning a meeting of the operatives was advertised by placard. It was held in the evening, in Christ Church School, and presided over by the Rev. Wm. Oldham. It was densely attended, and when the question was put about the wages, every hand was held up for the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member had also told the House that the mechanics of the north were always glad to work long hours when they could get an increase of wages. lie (Mr. Ferrand) had since then received a letter from the mechanics of Manchester, denying the statement, and enclosing a copy of a prize essay, issued under the auspices of the delegates of the united mechanics of Great Britain and Ireland, as to the benefits resulting from a reduction of the hours of labour. The Honourable Member had also denied that any com pact had been entered into between the Anti-Corn law League and the factory operatives, on the con dition that if the latter supported the repeal of the corn-laws the, former would withdraw their oppo sition to the Ten Hours' Bill. Now, in answer to that he could prove that in 1843 and 1844, when the League was not very popular with the operatives, his old friend Mr. Brookes, of God bless you, we're all for ourselves" noto riety made effbrts to convince the leaders of the factory operatives, if they would support the repeal of the corn-laws,:he and many other manufacturers would support the Ten Hours' Bill. Mr. Ashworth had also corresponded with the short time delegates in London, to the effect that the corn-laws were the cause of long hours of labour, and that they should be repealed before any reduction in the hours of working took place. (The Hon. Member then read several extracts from letters and documents in support of what he had advanced.) The League had obtained the repeal of the corn-laws; were they prepared to fulfil their contract?—(Hear, hear.) He would not argue the question of foreign competition with them, but he claimed it of them, as an act of duty, justice, and honour, to carry out their pledge, and not endeavour to intimidate the House in order to rob the poor man of his rights. The Manchester manufacturers had also pledged themselves to Lord Ashley, through Mr. Greig, that if the Corn-laws were repealed they would not oppose a Ten Hours' Bill. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read a letter, ad dressed by Lord Ashley to the Secretary of the Operative Short-Time Committee, sitting in London. His Lordship said that Mr. Greig of Manchester had done him the honour to call upon him at the Albion Hotel, and he there ex pressed his strong desire for the settlement of the short time question. The manufacturers had been benefited by the repeal of the duty on raw cotton, and they would be further benefited by the repeal of the corn-laws ; and he thought it but fair justice that the workman should receive his share of those advantages in abridged hours of labour. This he conceived could only be done by legislative enactment, as every proposition for regulations between the employers and the workmen had failed already. So much for the opinion of Mr. Grieg. Now, he thought that he had proved to the House that a deliberate compact had been entered into between the manu facturers and the work-people. But what had been the con duct of some of the largest manufacturers in Manchester, after the poor people had been at the expense of sending up to London delegates to watch over their interests ? It was, perhaps, lucky for them that they did so, as he (Mr. Ferrand) had been informed that there was in the Blouse a document purporting to be from some of the workmen of Manchester (tor the purpose of showing that they were opposed to the Ten Hours' Bill), and he believed that that paper would be used in the course of that debate, probably by the Hon. Member for Manchester. It was lucky for the operatives that he (Mr. Ferrand) had caught the Speaker's eye before the Hon. Member had, as he thus had an opportunity of forestalling the statement made by the Hon. Member. ow what had the manufacturers been doing inManchester? On Monday last the averlookers and managers of Messrs. Murray's works—and he managers e rs of hours' wished to call the attention of the Ho use to this fact, in order to show the degree of intimidatio n w hi ch was used against the operative- The overlookers sve "Eleven m hours' work and g '--rs' " worker they put t h e in quiry, mills went round among the work men, with books in wTaivgeel their hands, all ruled in columns, und er t h ese heads— " Ten ' twelve w T err y e ll 1 ,, ea hnDhodoou hours yri s es' you uwewno prefer k rgheeef a seu n r ;r d e„ ten dg twelve e h te ootu each hours work and a t we l ve hours' wages, or an wagese e l n or ten Hear,h hours'ear, from n with m r .a Bright) d e l g e h v t e . n ' option left here for the workm en . T hey were to n to these agreements. The manufa c t urers were bT o or ten be t ro e e n u n was no hours' determined to protect themselves—("Hear,"from Mr. Bright) —but there was no protection extended to the workmen— (Hear, hear)—for they were given to understand, in almost w as many words, that as they chose the alternative s o ff ere d , so would they please or displease their masters. The M essrs. Holdsworth had adopted the same course, and the men th ere e n twelve—thus hours work and the to wages, and s t i h g e ne w d e f tn or ele ent : r wall. Messrs. M'Connell had adopted a similar c ourse , b ut they gave some hours' notice, and the men chose t en h ours ' labour, and informed their employers that they would take their chance of the wages. Now, if the House would listen to what took place in the borough of Manchester, the House would understand the workpeople would no longer be trifled with. The Hon. Member proceeded to read—" Last ni g ht a meeting was held in the Mead House (one of the largest halls in Manchester), which was crammed to excess. The meeting was entirely conducted by operatives. The first resolution adopted was—" That this meeting cannot but view with a feeling of regret and indignation the conduct of those mas: ters who had adopted the disreputable course of sending their managers and overlookers through the mills with books in their hands, demanding in a hasty and peremptory manner whether they were in favour of a Ten, an Eleven, or Twelve Hours' Bill—the object being to receive such answers as would enable Hon. Members to offer some further opposition to the Bill now before the House. The second resolution was, " That the factory workers are prepared to accept a Ten Hours' Bill, regardless of its effect on wages, leaving the prices of their labour to be regulated by the same principle which fixed the prices of other commodities in the market." He (Mr. Ferrand) had intended to have alluded to several other mis-statements made by the Honourable Member for Durham, but he did not know that he would be justified in taking up th e ti me o f t h e H ouse . B e fore he sat down he should wish to tell the House that the factory operatives throughout the land would no longer be trifled with. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had taunted them in this House that they had not struck through out England.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Ferrand) was glad that they had not done so. The horny-handed men of England had come to this House praying for protection for their wives and children, and their prayers had been denied. They had not denied protection to the wives and children of the miners, but sympathy was excited in their favour by the decorations which illustrated the ' blue book.— ( Hear, hear.) The factory operatives would get up similar decorations. They would also work upon the feelings of Hon. Members, it they could not rely upon their justice, and .500 factory cripples, assembled in Palace-yard, would raise a shout of supplication to the House of Com mons, and the universal bur d en o f th e i r prayer would be, " W e wi ll h ave the Ten Hours Bill." Mr. ROEBUCK sa id h e wou ld pass over the noi s y decla mation of the H on . G en tl eman who had just resum e d hi s seat, and di rect hi s attention to th e littl e a rgument con tained in his sp eec h. H e was i n no way connected w ith the co mmercial interest of this country, and theref ore could have no oth er m otive for opposing t hi s Bill, except that he considered it would be f or the public goo d t h a t i t s h ou ld no t pass, and yet, be cause he opposed it upon conviction, he was to be called a cold-blooded political economist.—(Hear, hear.) It w as time he had investigated the science of political economy a $ applied to the laws of trade, and as that investigation had induced him to come to a very different oonclusion to that of Honourable Gentlemen opposite, it was hardly fair that vituperation of the vilest character should be - heaped upon his head.—(Hear, hear.) He should, how ever, hardly hays addressed himself to this question had it not been for the address of the Noble Lord the Member for Newark, who wound up his speech with half a dozen perorations, and concluded the last of them with this observations, " and yet the working people of this country understand that gentlemen on this side of the House (mean ing of coupe his own) also are attached to that party of historic recollection, are in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill, and were not opposing themselves to the rights of the people."— ( Hear, hear.) Historic recollection of party indeed! He thought if he were to look back into the page of history, he should find that this party had been engaged in one continued effort to repress the energies of the people; but he was not called upon on that occasion to enter into the lists with the Noble Lord upon that subject, but were he called upon he could do so.—(Hear, hear.) That, how ever, was not the question he wished to embark in ; but, with out any feeling of party, he wanted to address himself to the great question which was now occupying the attention of the House.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who last ad dressed them had held out a threat to the House by which he proposed to influence their judgment through their feel ings, and he wished to know whether that mode of deal ing with the question was worthy of the representative of the people —was it rational?—(Hear, bear.) The Hon. Member for Knaresborough said it was not fair to ask the labourer this question, " Are you willing to take ten hours' wages for ten hours' work ?" But, in his opinion, it was more honourable putting it that way, than holding out to the operative- that he would receive twelve hours' wages for the ten hours' work if this Bill were passed. Now, could they by any legislative enactment se cure f or th e l a b ourin g man 12 hours' wages for ten hours' work ? If they could do that, why could they not receive twelve hours' wages fbr six hours' work? Nay, he would go further, and say, why could they not receive twelve hours' wages for no work at all ?—(Hear, and laughter.) The Honourable Member for Weymouth had indulged in some remarks against over-pro• duction, and argued that it would raise the price of a shirt a farthing, or a coat a penny. He appre hended that was not the way in which they ought to meet the question, nor was trade calculated upon that principle. How was it calculated? Why, a man having a certain capital to exhaust, employed a certain number of labourers in the production of certain articles, which he afterwards threw into the home and foreign markets to compete with others, and if he was undersold of course his speculation failed. That was the principle which regulated trade, but if by legislative enactments they attempted to cripple trade they might depend upon it America would not follow their example, and much of their trade would be lost to them for ever. But what was the state of the country when this measure was brought forward? Why they were about to maintain three millions of people just at the very moment it was proposel to them to tie up theright hand of the British people. He had heard it said that their success in their con flicts with Napoleon was owing to British valour. There was, however, another implement they used in the conflict, and that was the British influence supplied by the manufacturing sinews of the country. They had now an enemy far greater than Napoleon, who was a far snore potent instrument than Napoleon. They had a famine stalk ing over the land. Ireland was starving, and England was approaching starvation state, and yet at this moment, for party purposes, the question was raised. The Irish people were promised mutton every day, the En glish were promised twelve hours' wages for ten hours' work. This was called "statesmanship, dealing with the interests of a great country upon a comprehensive plan" by the large party opposite—" my party." It was the conduct of the man who hoisted a flag upon the sea coast in the hope of getting something from the scramble which might arise from the shipwreck of some unfortunate vessel that might pass along the coast. Whether the ship should hoist the green flag of Ireland, or whether it be the ten hours' flag, it is all the same to " the great party." He had been asked why he did not come forward to meet a Noble Lord (Lord Ashley) upon a former occasion. He was not afraid to meet any person upon the principles which he held. He was not however a peripatetic, wishing to wander up and down among the people, propounding his principles to them. His place was in that House, and in that Ilouse he would always state fairly and openly his opinions. He believed that the great body of the operatives of this country really and seriously believed that wages could be regulated by Act of Parliament. He differed from that opinion; he was perfectly confident of the truth of his opinions, and he wished that those persons were present by their representatives in that House to give effect to their principles and wishes. He hoped that he would soon see the day when his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury would submit a really large and comprehensive measure to the leader of " the great party," which should give to the labouring population of the country the constitutional means of expressing their opinion upon subjects before the House. The way in which the Noble Lord and " the great party" dealt with the operatives of the country was always by a sort of patronising air ; they patted the people on their heads, and said to them " We will do you all good, only be quiet—just listen to us —we will be your pastors and masters—we will will guide you always, and give you whatever you may desire in the position in which it has pleased God to call you—but do not, for Heaven's sake, attempt to be legislators." He (Mr. Roe buck) wished them to be legislators, and to have the means of constitutionally expressing their opinions. He believed that it would be a great calamity to the country, if at the present momentous crisis this measure were to be carried. He deeply sympathised with the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, and most heartily wished him the utmost success in his measures; but so sure as he was now the chief adviser of the Crown, be might be assured that he would be crippling the energies of the country, and sullying the lustre and authority of his great name, if he lent his authority to the passing of this measure. He hoped he would not deal with the measure in so trifling and mischievous a manner as he had proposed, by limiting the period of labour to eleven hours a day. If the legislation were worth a farthing, it was worth going all the way. —(Cheers.) If by legislation the Government could make the people happy, they ought to make them completely happy, and, for his part, he would rather vote at once with the Hon. Member for Oldham than for the eleven hours' pro position.—(Cheers.) He hoped there would be no trifling of this sort, no half measures, nor any halting between these distinct and opposite opinions. If the measure of interference was good it ought to be ap plied to the agricultural labourers as well as the manufac turers; and he would propose in this Bill, if it ever came into action, that no farmer should e m pl o y an y c hild un d er 13 years of age, and that he should also be compelled to edu cate them in the same manner as the manufacturers were. If any young rhetorician who wishes to employ rather a strong weapon with a weak hand, and draw up affecting details with his own diluted phraseology, he need only say that he comes to advocate the rights of woman.—(Hear, hear.) Yes, that was the phrase. Now, he never heard any allusion to the agricultural women, who were constantly employed in the cold and wet at fourpence a day. It was a very favourite theme to describe the effects of factories upon the human frame. He (Mr. Roebuck) had no professional knowledge upon that subject, but he could read, and he had read, and he had gone through a great number of factories, and he found that the health of the females was in ten thou sand times a better condition than that of the women. employed in agriculture, whom he had seen driven to the field, in the cold and wet, ill fed and ill clothed, and they were so because their masters were not able to pay them higher wages ; but if they interfered with the amount of work done by the factory operative, they would necessitate a decrease in his wages, and these same misfortunes would then befal them. Now, if he wanted to show a foreigner the glory of his country, its wealth, and its riches, and if he desired to give him a high opinion of the power of the country, he would take him to those places of industry in the north of England. It would not be to the hovel of the agrigultural labourer in the south, nor to show him how the poor women had only fourpence per day. No, he would bring him to those immense 'towns which had sprung up from this mighty intelligence—the enterprise of England—(Hear, hear)—where thousands of men were fed and clothed. Let them, if they chose, demand a certi ficate of education from every man who employed children in his factory. But, whatever was good for the factories of the north of England, must be surely of equal benefit to the agriculturists of the south. lie, for his part, could not draw any line of distinction, and he would take care to introduce a clause which would extend the benefit. When this disappointment did come, the first parties who would come to that House to complain of their legislation would be the labouring classes themselves.—(Hear.) The consumer would feel it also, and the nation would feel it to its heart's core; and when the y had to supply millions with food, they would find the Chancellor of the Exchequer complaining that the energies of the nation had been crippled, his finances cut short, and the right arm of England weakened.—(Hear.) Mr. P. BORTHWICK considered that the labour of women and children ought to be restricted, whether employed in Printing-house-square or in the fields ; but as the experiment, with respect to both sexes ought to be fairly tried, and as he had voted during the whole time he had sat in Parliament for the measures of Lord Ashley, he should support the second reading of the Bill. Sir R. H. INGLIS said, although the Hon. Member for Bath sand he occupied seats in the same locality in that House, he seldom agreed with the principles which he (Mr. Roebuck) enunciated ; but in the speech which he had delivered there were some observations which he heard with unfailing pleasure, particularly his concluding observation— that eoeui, or later .the passing of such a measure as the one befo re th e Lieu.— The result of the experiments which had been made gave them every encouragement to go forward. The prophecies against the operation of the present measure were stated four years ago, when the late Government was in power, and when its supporters on one occasion were dragged through the mire in order to rescind the vote which they had given in favour of the Bill. He said then that, postpone it as they might, sooner or later the measure must be carried, and become the law of the land. The other point on which he agreed with the lion. Member for Bath was, if the mea sure was to be agreed to by the House, they should take the Bill as it stood. With the views which lie (Sir R. H. Inglis) entertained of the ultimate success of the ten hours' measure, he could not see how the Government should prolong a Vexatious agitation out of doors for the next few years. He trusted instead of doing so, 'her Majesty's Government would reconsider the question, and consent to the Bill as it stood on the table.— (Hear, hear.) Should they do so, and the Bill not work so favourably as expected, then they could come down to the House in 1849, and recal the step which had been taken. The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had ascribed party motives to the Hon. Members whose names were on the back of the Bill, especially to the Noble Lord the Member for Newark (Lord John Manners), but he could not see how he could make this appear, as on all other questions those Hon. Members entirely differed. It was reasonable to suppose that, in introducing the present Bill, they were actuated by pure and honourable feelings. The experiment of the last twenty years gave them every encouragement to go forward, as all the prophecies which had been made against intervention had proved fallacious. His great object was not to raise the price of labour, nor the actual expense attendant upon the manufacture of cotton, but to distribute Ithe work more equally. At the pre sent moment, as he was informed, the work was distributed not over the six days of the week, but in many mills, over four days only, and in others for only three days; the work being the same in quantity. He had letters from Man chester, which stated that some mills only worked four days in the week, some only three days, and some were entirely stopped. He wished to call the attention of the House to the fact, that this moment there were men working 48 hours per week, and who would, if their hours of labour were re duced, work 59 hours. But that work would be distributed . _ __ .......... _ _ Over the whole week, so that they would get six days' wages for six days' work, and the manufacturers would derive a greater amount of work from the system. The number of hands employed during only four days in Manchester was 2,240; those employed for three days were 3,059; and there were about 500 employed for one day in the week ; whilst those not employed amounted to 6,415 ; making a total of those partially stopped from work and those altogether stopped, amounting to 12,264. If the work now given were distributed more equally it would be of greater benefit to the workmen, and afford an increased produce to the manufacturers. lie • still hoped that her Majesty's Government would allow this Bill to pass, in spite of the unadvised statement of the Noble Lord, and would also pass it in its original form. Mr. THELAWNY rose, but was tor a long time inaudible, in consequen9e of the confusion which prev4iled in the House. I He objected to the measure on this ground, because it was a distinct invasion of the rights of property; it invaded not only the capital invested in manufactures, but the labourer who, with a large family, desired to work 14 or 15 hours a day, was affected by it also, for it limited his ability of pro viding for those dependent on him. He would give his op position to the second reading. Sir G. STRICKLAND would not have addressed the House were it not for a statement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and repeated by the Hon. Member for Bath, to the effect that the factory labourers were as well off as agri cultural labourers. The first thing which would strike the House in drawing a contrast between the two employments Was this, that the agricultural labourer was away from home twelve hours a day, and worked in the invigorating air of heaven for ten hours, the factory labourer was away from home for fourteen hours each day, and worked in an overheated and unhealthy atmosphere far twelve hours each day. The agricultural labourer returns home to his domestic comfort in the winter seasons at four o'clock in the afternoon, the factory labourer, on the other hand, did not leave the factory till eight in the evening. But it had been said that there were maxims of political economy so stern and so unbending, that whatever amount of injury might be made out, it was impolitic to interfere. He denied, however,: that such stern and unbending maxims!, were to be found in political economy. In all cases where he had had the opportunity of testing the opinions of the operatives he had found that they were per fectly willing to receive less wages for their reduced labour, as it would give them an opportunity of increasing their do mestic comforts. Ile was decidedly in favour of the Bill, and should certainly vote for the second reading. Lord EBRINGTON considered that the principle of the measure was disposed of when the Legislature determined to limit the hours of labour to twelve hours, and he therefore should not detain the House upon that point. The Bill, in his opinion, was justified upon economical grounds, because when operatives became ill from over-exertion the expense fell upon the State, while the profit of that over exertion went into the pocket of the employer. With regard to the general principle of interference with children, he considered that it was perfectly justifiable. It appeared to him that the right time to cease interference with boys was when they attained the years of discretion. He considered, however, that the introduction of the principle of interference with adult female labour was one most danger ous. He thought it right to state those points in which he differed from other Hon. Gentleman. Mr. NEWDEGATE said he regretted that he was too late to present a petition from Huddersfield, signed by the soli citors, the merchant-traders, the physicians, and the manu facturers in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill. Mr. MAIISLAND said that the Honourable Mem ber for Oldham had not acted upon his own precepts. As the manufacturers of this country had to com pete with foreign manufacturers, the House ought to pause before it consented to place restrictions upon them which could not fail to have the effect of preventing them from competing so well as they could if they were left untrammelled by legislative enactments. The time chosen for seeking to pass this measure was most unsuited, as the manufactures of the country were in a very perilous condition, He was in favour of giving the labouring classes of this city more relaxation for innocent pursuits, but he was adverse to its being given through the hands of the State. r Mr. DUNCOMBE said, as it was the wish of the House to come to a division without delay, he would not detain them for more than three minutes. fie agreed in one observation ; of the Hon. Member, that the master manufacturers were tired of the agitation ; but he might have added, with equal truth, that the workers also were tired of it. An Eleven Hours' Bill was an absurd proposition, and it showed that the Government, in favouring one, had doubts of a measure of that kind.—(Hear.) uch a measure could not be beneficial to the employed—they al most universally called for a Ten Hours Bills Those who were for the restriction of labour in factories were of opinion that ten hours, and ten hours alone, was the mea sure which ought to be granted. The Secretary of State for the Ilome Department had said, that he would not be a party to keeping up the delusion, that the people would re ceive twelve hours' wages tor ten hours' work. He knew that the people did Lelieve that they should receive for ten hours' work twelve hours' wages, and they had many instances in which a reduction of the hours of work had been followed by an increase of wages. He had one instance to give, in a letter from a competent autho rity, written to him, and which stated that experience had proved that where the hours of work were reduced wages did not fall in proportion, and the moral condition of the workman would be much improved. Feeling, as he did, that the Bill would give to the people of this country greater recreation and improved moral habits, he should give it his cordial support. Mr. B. ESCOTT (who rose amidst a storm of confusion, noise, and cries of "Divide") said that he rose t o move the adjournment of this debate.—(Oh, oh.) He moved it for a good reason. On a former occasion the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had said that he would express his views on the second reading of the Bill, and the Noble Lord had not spoken upon the second reading of that measure.— (Cries of " Yes, yes.") He had not. The Noble Lord had said a few words, but he had not entered upon the principle of the Bill. Neither had he heard the opinion of the Honourable Member for Tamworth, nor the opinion of the Noble Member for Lynn, the straightforward leader of a very large party in that House.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") The Right Hon. Gentleman the Recorder for Dublin was crying out and interrupting; would it not be better to answer him when he had done? For the reasons he had stated, he moved the adjournment of the debate. Mr. SHAW said he would only say one word in answer to the Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken. He believed that the only object of the Hon. Gentleman who bad last spoken was to throw every obstacle in the way of the pro gress of the measure. Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that the reasons the Hon. Member had brought before the House why the division should not be entered into were very unsatisfactory. He had often known the House to consent to an adjourn ment because some Members were desirous of addressing the House on some important question, and they had not had art opportunity of doing so, but he had never before heard in that House that when a Member was not :desirous of addressing the House that the House should adjourn for the purpose of hearing him. He was prepared to give the measure every fair op position in his power; but he could not consent to the course taken by the Honourable Member for Winchester. After two days' discussion, and consi dering that the question had been so often before the House, he did not think they would be justified in adjourning the debate.—( Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. and Learned Member for Win chester had charged him with having given a pledge on a former occasion,twith promising to speak on the present occasion. He rose to say he had made no engage ment of the kind.—(Hear, hear.) When the Bill was introduced he stated he would not oppose it in that stage, but that he still entertained his previous opinions against the measure, and would in its future progress offer it all the opposition in his power. He had always opposed the principle of the Bill, and retained the same objections to it now, but he had made no promise that he would speak on the present debate.—(Hear, hear.) When the subject had been so long discussed already, and no new arguments intro duced, he thought it would be better for him to remain silent and record his vote against the Bill.--(Hear, hear.) Lord GEORGE BENTINCK said he was still in favour of the Bill, and would now vote in its favour. Mr. BRIGHT said it would be in the recollection of the House oa that day week, that at the conclusion of his observations he made some remarks on the conduct of the Government in regard to this measure. He wanted some explanation of this conduct, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchester appeared to be wanting the same. This was an important discussion, and should not be taken on Wednesday at all, when for the first four hours so few Members were present, but should be taken on some other day, when it could be more fully considered. He would second the motion for adjourn ment. The gallery was then cleared for a division, when there ap , peared— For the adjournment ... Against it - 282 Majority against the adjournment-275 The House then divided upon the second reading, when there appeared— For the second reading Against it B7 Majority for the second reading —loB The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed. The House then adjourned at ten minutes past Six o'clock MONEY MARKET. After the hours of business this afternoon, Consols were done at 91i i for this Account, And 914 a for the April Account. REGISTRY of BIRTHS and DEATHS DURING THE WEEK ENDING FEB. 13. 1,--,-- -- e ,:-...--- 1 ~... • 1.... .r ....1.0 1.1“1.10 1 ClaialGl ell In the Week. Males ... ... ... 592 Males ... ... ... 702 Females ... ... 555 Females ... ... 662 Total ... 1,147 Total ... 1,364 - - - PETITIONS ON PRIVATE BILLS. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(THIS DAY.) (Room 22, before Mr. Examiner SMITH.) UNOPPOSED LIST. Lithe following unopposed: cases the customary formal R t o a Railway Company (Branch u n from proofs were completed, and the standing orders complied with London and South• Western Railway Acts Amendment (Powers tn ras e further to London capital,and S a o n u d t h dar_ takings.) IP l s p w s i :- h ich an t DutoblSinte p D h u en nd ,a ry g ru re , en a ) n . d Bathfarnham Railway (Extensions St. c aninarrnyn'sAinctßsaAthniweinckdm(einnt.the city and borough of Bath) Leominster Canal Navigation Sale. Blandford and Bruton Railway, from Blandford to join the Wilts, Somerset, and Weymouth Railway at Bruton, in the county of Somerset, with powers for the London and South-Western Railway Company to make or purchase, or hire the same. This opposed case was then resumed. At the close of the inquiry, the standing orders were found not to have been d o m r Buryo od b St. r g Ecod.mundslV Railwaye subscribe st ern complied with in several instances. (Room 23, before Mr. Examiner MAY.) UNOPPOSED LIST. In the following unopposed cases the customary formal proofs were completed : York and Newcastle Railway (Pelaw Tyne Dock Branches, &c.) York and Newcastle and Newcastle and Berwick Railways Amalgamation. Yolk and North ididland Railway- (Nottingley Branch). York and North Midland Railway (Harrogate Branch, Bo • roaghbridge, and Knaresborough Extension). York and North Midland Railway (East Riding Canals Pur chase). Herne Bay and Canterbury Junction Railway. OPPOSED CASE. Edinburgh and Northern Railway (Branch from Burntisland to Dunfermline Branch ; Deviation and Extension of Dun. fermline Branch ; Branch from the Strathearn Deviation to the Scottish Central Railway; Great North Road Cross ing (Strathearn Deviation), and Road Crossing, and Dal keith Railway Crossing, Dunfermline Branch). This opposed case was gone into, but the inquiry had not closed when the Examiner rose. A r. Secretary Itedington's of at his family seat, Kileornao, county of Galway, was entered on 'Murky night by burglarx, who titled the desks of some silver. TORBAY, FEB. 16. —Wind W.N.W.—Arrd. Peredes Braves, Allier, Port-au-Price, for Havre, with part of cargo thrown overboard. BOSTON, STAMFORD, and BIRM INGHAM RAILWAY (STAMFORD AND WIS BECLI LINE).—(THIS DAY). The ordinary half-yearly meeting of the shareholders of this company was held this day at their offices, No. 18, Abingdon-street, Westminster. Thomas Macaulay, Esq. , president of the board of directors, in the chair. After the usual preliminaries, The CHAIRMAN said that, although so short a time bad elapsed since the last meeting of the company, yet as the present was a regular half-yearly meeting, the Secretary had thought it right to make a report. The SECRETARY then read the report, from which it' ap peared that the shares had been reduced from three to one, and that the directors had made a call of 11. 14s. a share. It also stated that all the Bills alluded to in the report had been read a first time, and that the balance of assets If as 6,41 81 . Os. tid., the sum stated at the last meeting. The CHAIRMAN said it would not be necessary to make any lengthened observations. It could not be supp( )seil that since the last meeting the directors h a d muc h I to com municate. The directors were carefully s u pe r in tending the progress of the Bills laid befo re th e l as t .meet ing. The latter part of the business mentioned in the advertisement was a subject for the special m eet ing that would take place after the conclusion of the present meeting. Considerable advances had been made to wards the capital of the company, though the period for the payment of such had not arrived, and there was no doubt that the requisite capital would be supplied by ;54.ep tlemen who knew the value of five per cent. certain, and sac, per cent. in perpetuity.—(Hear, hear.) M r . P ear s on •bau given his most valuable services to the company as a super intendent, for which they proposed to allow him 4001- Per annum, only 2001. per annum of which would c om e ontt ei , the polets of the company. He would conclude by .mo wing the adoption of the report in the usual form. Mr. GRIFFIN seconded the motion. Mr. LEACILILAN proposed as an amendment the it the salary of the secretary should be increased from 1:.41. to 3501. per annum. After some discussion the amendment was a ltered into a resolution, to the effect that the meeting consi id,ered it inexpedient to increase the allowance of 1,0001., P annum for any salary to the managing director. This amendment was negatived. The original resolution was then put and carried by a. :large majority. This terminated the business of the half-yearly meeti A special meeting was then held to confirm the agree at out entered into with the, directors of the Great Nortatern Railway Company by the directors of the Bcfraton, Stamford, and Birmingham Railway Company' to sell and lease their line, with the eaten. si onS to the former company, which had already been appro v sad at a general meeting of the shareholders, and also to conl rra the following Bills, viz.:— _ A Bill to empower the Bolton, Stamford, and Binning. barn Railway Company to make a railway from the 33 gat ,on and Peterborough Railway, at or near Peterborough, to ,•the Stamford and Wishedh line of the Boston, Stamford, ,rind Birmingham Railway, in the pariah of Thorney and I:As of Ely. - A Bill to empower the Boston, Stamford, and Birmingham Railway Company to make a Branch Railway from the Stamford and Wisbech line of the Boston, Stamford, a nd Birmingham Railway, at Wisbech, to Wisbech Harbour,. ; and to construct certain works at Wisbech Harbour. A Bill to empower the Boston, Stamford, and Birming,-h,anl Railway Company to make a Railway from Wisbech to Sut ton Bridge, with a Branch to Sutton St. Mary, and to , prove the .farbour at Sutton Bridge. The agreement and the Bills wero confirmed without d is sent or discussion. Thanks were then - voted to the Chairman and thy. Ifi" rectors.—The meeting then separated. COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen and Prince Albert took their usual trill walk yesterday in the royal gardens of Buckingham Pala ace. His Royal Highness Prince Albert, accompanied by C twat Alexander Mensdorti, and attended by the Equerry in W sit ing, Captain the Hon. A. H. Gordon, rode out on horseh ack yesterday. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited .liar Majesty yesterday. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales, Pr ILI Alfred, the Princess Royal, and the Princess Alice, took thtir airings yesterday in the royal gardens. The royal dinner party at Buckingham Palace yester that included her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, CotwiC Alexander Mensclorfr, Lady Fanny Howard, Baroness ode Speth, the Earl of Hardwicke, Lieut.-Colonel the Hon. C. 3 3 * Phipps, and Sir George Cooper. The band of the Coldstream Guards attended at the Pelage , and performed the following pieces during dinner : Overture, " Maritana,"—Wallace. Grand Duo, " 0 Ciel," (Les Huguenots)—Meyerbeer. Polka, "The American" (on Negro Melodies)—Julliers. Grand March, from " The Camp of Silesia"—Meyerbeez. Waltz, "The Hyacinth"—Koenig. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge, acootir panied by the Princess Mary, and attended by Barone oo Hammeisteen and Mr. Edmond Mildmay, honoured the Haymarket Theatre with her presence yesterday evening. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, accompanist' by his &rene Highness Prince Frederic of Hesse, and. at tended by Baron Knesebeck, honoured the Italian Opera with his presence last evening. A Cabinet Council was held at twelve o'clock yesterdap a t the Foreign-office. The Mi n i s t ers present were L or d 010 Russell, the Marquis of Lansdowne, the Earl of Minto, Sir George Grey, Viscount Palmerston, Earl Grey, the Chan cellor of the Exch e q uer , th e Earl of Auckland, Sir JobV Hobhouse, Lord Campbell, Vis coun t M or p et h, th e Earl et Clarendon, the Right Hon. T. B. Macaulay, and the Right Hon. 11. Labouchere. The Council sat an hour and a half. Sir George Larpent and Lieutenant Waghom, accoine' panied by Messrs. Boyd, Sutherland, Browning, G. H. 1 -' 0 ; naldson, and Wise (merchants), had an interview with FAu Grey yesterday, at the Colonial-office. The Governor of the Bank of England and the Deputy Governor had an interview with the Chancellor of the Ex... chequer yesterday. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 16. INFLUX OF IRISH POOR INTO LIVERPOOL. The Earl of LUCAN (in continuation) proceeded to say-- Mr. Otway, the Assistant Poor-law Commissioner, suggested to him that a rate should be struck for the relief of the poor, and that the doors of the workhouse should be opened for their ad.. mission. But if a rate had been struck, it could not have been collected, as in England, the day after; a month at least mot have intervened before they could have been in a condition to collect it, and even the collecting of it was fraught with diffi.• culty, owing to the sub-divisions of the land, and the difficulty of discovering the real persons on whom it should be levied. Nothing could have been more ridiculous than striking a rate because the people were in want of immediate relief. He (Lord Lucan) told Mr. Otway that he was in favour of opening due house, but as there were no funds to provide relief for them in the house, and as it was a question of starvation within, as well as without the houses he thought it advisable not to open the doors of the workhouse under such circumstances. It would have been useless striking a new rate whilst the old rate remained outstanding. It was more advisable, before striking a new rate, to collect what re mained unpaid of the old one. The Noble Lord (Lord Dun can) seemed in favour of a paid board; he could not divine his reason, except that he was desirous to be its paid chairman, Or to hold some other paid office in connexion with it. One was scarcely prepared to be lectured by a Scotchman (Lord Duncan) on the subject of dispensing relief to the distressed poor of Ireland. He certainly could not possees much knowledge of workhouses from experience, in his own country, as he (Lord Lucan) did not believe that there was such a thing as a work house in Scotland. He recommended to that Noble Lord's attention, some voluminous blue books, which were more voluminous than those published with respect to Ireland, and which treated of the condition and relief of the poor of Scotland. He would there find much to reproach his country with—details of the niggard relief dis pensed to the poor; in some cases such wretched sums as 3s. or 4s. a year were given to one family in the course of that time. When Scotchmen spoke sincerely on the conduct of Irish landlords, he though he was justified in retorting in this way- He did not think that the remarks—the splenetic and misdirected remarks—of the Members for Bath (Me. Roebuck and Lord Duncan) would meet with much favour from their constituents at the next election There was, no doubt, much to condemn • but at the same time much allowance was to be made. He could state that the proprietors of Ireland were making every sacrifice they could, and they were using every endeavour in their power to co-operate with her Majesty's Government to alleviate the " existing distress. He could not conclude without saying that he much lamented the tone and lang uage that had been used towards Ireland and the peopl e of that country, because he must candidly say it was calculated to create a hostile feeling towards Ireland. When all the subjects of the present discus sion had passed away, there would be feelings of envy, enmity* and detestation engendered in the minds of 'the people of Ireland. Earl GREY could not but regret that allusion had been made to what had taken place in the other House, as it was cal culated to lower the character of Parliament. Having heard the observations of the Noble Earl opposite, he felt it to be his duty to rise for the purpose of stating, which de did sin cerely, that the censures which he had so unsparingly lavished were altogether unjust. The Noble Earl bad spoken of Mr. Otway, Assistant Poor-law Commissioner, in very un measured terms. He accused him of having brought charges against him (Lord Lucan) which were unfounded. He (Earl Grey) must say, that he had read all the papers relat ing to the subject, and he had heard the speech of the Noble Earl, and he was bound to say, that his honest and sincere opinion was that Mr. Otway's censure on the board of guardians of the Castlebar Union was in so way more severe than the circumstances justified. He had no doubt that the Noble Earl, in the steps he had taken with respect to this subject, was actuated by a desire to do his duty towards Ireland; but the Noble Earl's own statement showed that the gravest censure rested upon the guardians of the Castlebar Union ; and here, he begged to observe, that Mr. Otway's censure was not of the Noble Earl, but of the board of guardians of the Castlebar Union. There were two or three facts which showed that the censure of Mr. Otway, and the subsequent suspension of the guardians of the Castlebar Union, were called for. In a period of the most harrowing distress they would not ad mit the paupers, though the workhouse contained a much smaller number than it was intended for, and even to those who were admitted into the house the most scandalous usage was given. It was alleged in defence that they were unable to raise the necessary funds ; but before admitting that plea, it was necessary to prove that due efforts had been made to raise these funds. But even the Noble Earl himself had told them that some of the arrears were due by solvent persons, and that they might, if due diligence had been used, been collected. The board of guardians ought to have taken care that the Tato was properly and duly collected. But why, he would ask, was no rate struck? Remonstrances had been made over and over again to have a new one struck, but nothing whatever was done. The ground alleged was this : a great part of the old one still remained uncollected. But every one was aware, that had any experience of the working of these matters, that the heavier the rate the more difficult it was of collection. In the last years of great distress in this country—in 1841 and 1842-- there was great difficulty in collecting the rates, but that was never put forward as a reason for refusing to strike a rate altogether. Only two rates had been struck since the Castle bar Union was opened—one in August, 1 8 42, and the other in July, 1845. The amount of the first was 1,061/., and of the last, 3,362/. ; and it was to be observed, that it was with the greatest possible difficulty the last had been struck. He said their Lordships would perceive, from the documents which he had just read, that this uLion, which was large, and included a great amount of property, belonging to the wealthy; that during the years 1845 and 1846, the years in which very great distress existed in Ireland, only one rate had been struck, and that rate only slightly exceeded 3,000/. He hoped their Lordships would compare this with the efforts which had been made during the years 1840 and 1841 by the small town of S sized by that town which he had the honour of mitre the milt.] floase of Parliament—he meant Sunder-1 Why, was the -rate at which the inhabitants c f these towns were paying the poor-rate? They were pa}irg twenty shillings in the pound • but how much were th ey pay ing in the pound in the Castlebar Union? Why, he believed alrat ' e t was not much more than three shillings, and that s m all ~,-. ~L~~ .s -! . , S ■ he ha thl VI he the poi ye. col Bi N 4 th , mm