The Sun. — London, England, 1857-03-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.-(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at 5 o'clock. The Duke of ARGYLL presented several petitions from different parts of Scotland for the repeal, or altera tion, of the Forbes Mackenzie Act : and also petitions against the grant to Maynootb. THE STANDING ORDERS OF THE HOUSE. Earl STANHOPE called the attention of the house to the report of the select committee on the minutes and journals of this house, and moved that the resolutions of the committee be agreed to by the house, and be made standing orders ; and that the standing order No. 25, directing that upon divisions in this house the " con tents" shall go below the bar and the " not-contents" stay within the house, be vacated. The noble lord said that when he last addressed the house on that sub ject there appeared such unanimity that he would not detain their lordships at any length. He then explained the mode in which the divisions of the house would be taken for the future, and said if the recommendations of the committee were agreed to a great improvement would be made in the mode of conducting the business of the house. The Earl of EGLINTON moved certain amendments to the resolutions of the committee, and said on the tak ing the numbers in a division the same rule as was ob served in the other house should be followed by their 1 ir3ships, and that for the future strangers be not re quired to leave the galleries of the house unless specially ordered. Lord REDESDALE also made a few observations. After a few words from Earl GRANVILLE, and the LORD CHANCELLOR, the resolutions, as amended, were agreed to. COMMONS ENCLOSURE BILL: This bill passed through committee. THE IRISH MAGISTRACY. Viscount DUNGANNON moved for return of a copy of the memorial addressed by the members of the Dublin Protestant Association to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland relative to the conduct of Edmund Smithwick and Thos. Hart, Esqnires, justices of the peace for Kilkenny, in a case of alleged assault, in which Michael Cashen and Mathew Spellacy, two persona in the employ of the So ciety for Irish Church Missions, were plaintiffs, and James Ryan, defendant, at the petty sessions held in the City of Kilkenny, on Monday, the 19th of January, 1857 ; together with the reply from the Castle of Dub lin, bearing date the 13th of February, 1857. After a few words from the Earl of DESART, Lord GRANVILLE assented to the motion, which was agreed to.. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAK took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BILLS. The Cornwall Railway was reitCl a third time and passed. The following pri►ate bills were considered and ordered to be read a third time :—Scottish Central Railway Bill, and the South Devon Railway Bill. The Birkenhead District Gas and Water Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. The Bagenals-town and Wexford Railway Bill was withdrawn. BELFAST IMPROVEMENT BILL. The second reading of the Belfast Improvement BL'l, after a lengthened discussion, was agreed to without a division. LIVERPOOL DOCKS CONINIITTEE AND BIR KENHEA.D DOCKS BILL. The order for the second reading of ihi;hill was read and discharged. TURNPIKE TOLLS. Sir J. DUKE presented a petition praying for the removal of the turnpike bars of the metropolis within a radius of six miles of Chariug-crOqs. MAYNOOTH. Mr. SPOONER presented 15 petitions from places in England, Ireland, and Scotland, against the continu ance of the Maynooth grant. The hon. gentleman gave notice that if he had a seat in the new Parliament he should take the earliest opportunity of renewing his mo tion for the repeal of the gra,=,t Maynnoth. (Lau,ihter.) WAR DECORATIONS. Captain L. VERNON asked the Under Secretary for War whether the list published of the names of the re cipients of the Victoria Cross was final, and whether it contained all the Crimean rec)mmendations deemed worthy of decoration ; and whether, in such case, there would be any objection to publishing the names of the officers and privates Who had been recommended ari rej•cted, with the details of the services for which they were recommended. Mr. F. PEEL said that the list was final as regarded the home regiments, and that the list did not contain the names of all who were lec)mmended. There were some recommended wh , 'se cases did not come within the scope of the warrant, and it would be obj3ctionable to give a l'st 'of their names. ([Tear, hear.) ARMY ESTIMATES. Mr. F. PEEL give notic3 th st he should clove th army estimates on Thareday nex , , in 2upply. VOTE OF TITANKS TO TITE SPEAKER. Lord PALMERSTON (whose rising was the signal for bre atiless silmcv) said—Sir, it was my duty yesterday to be the organ of the regrets of this house at the commanic &on which you then thought it your duty to make, and of their concern that the next Parliament were not to have the b - nefit of your assistance in conducting their delib.:2- rations. I have to-day a task to perform of a ratite more agreeable to myself, and one which, I am sure, will be more acceptable to the house. (Cheers.) 1 have to propose to this house to return, by their unanimous vote, their thanks to you, sir, for your• able and distinguished service in the chair for the long period of 18 years during which you have occu pied it. That man must have been a very superfi cial observer of the proceedings in Parliament who has not remembered in how essential a degree the usefulness, and respectability, and influence of this house must depend upon the manner in which the person who fills that chair performs the duties which he has to discharge. (Cheers.) Iu a great assembly like this, composed of so many persons come from all parts of the country, it is obvious that unless the person who regulates the proceed ings inspires among the members of this house that temper and forbearance and equanimity which ha himself possesses, this house might be led by the warmth of discussion, and, by the agitation of pub lic questions,. to depart from that order and mode ration, and regularity of proceeding which are so essential to maintain in public opinion that respect which is due to this branch of the Legislature. It is needless, I am sure, to say in how eminent a degree you have performed that duty. It is needless to re- mind those who have watched your proceedings how you have c:. , mbincd promptitude of decision, justness of judgment, firmness of purpose, with the most conciliatory manner, and how that dignity, that natural dignity, which belongs to yourself, which is most striking when accompanied by simpli city of mind, and the absence of all artificial affecta tion—how that natural dignity which adorns you. - self has been communicated, through your direc tion, to the general proceeliugs of the Common,' House of Parliament. (Cheers.) Not only have you performed in this exemplary and useful man ner your duties in the chair, but there are other duties—l will not say less important, but nearly important—which the Speaker of this house has to perform out of that chair. lam sure I shall meet with the concurrence of every gentleman who hears tue when I say that no one ever approached you for the purpose of obtaining that information with re- spect to our proceedings, either public or private, which it was his desire to receive, without expe riencing from you not only the most courteous re ception—not only the most ready hearing—but also the most accurate information, in regard to the matter in respect to which it was his desire and Ys duty to consult you. (Cheers.) There is another matter, also, in which you have been eminently con ducive to the interests of this house. Our forms of proceeding are founded upon ancient usage ; many of our forms were no doubt the result of accident, and perhaps of design, at periods when those forms were more essentialthan at present to maintain the prin ciples upon which they are founded. You had, sir, the judgment todiscrimina.tebet weenthose ' priaciples which oug ht ever to be ma i ntained, and technical be varied. or modifi e d without forms which might and by suggestions , public inconvenience ; you ha ve from dispatch time to time, contributed much t o th e of the of business in this house, to .the advanta ge public, and the convenience of members of this house. (Cheers.) lam sure tha t, in what I have been saying, I have been not only expressing that Which is passing through the mind of every mem ber of this house—but that ; in moving the address which I p ropose t o su b m i t t o th e hou se , I shall only be embodying the sentiments naturally arising in the mind of every one present. (Cheers.) I therefore move—. " That the thanks of this house be given to Mr. Speaker, for his eminent and distinguished services during . the period of nearly eighteen years for which he has filled the chair of this house; that he be assured that this house fully appreciates the zeal and ability with which he has discharged the duties of Speaker under circumstances requiring unprecedented labour and exertion ; and that this house has the strongest sense of the firmness and dignity with which he has maintained its privi- THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 11, 1857. leges, of his unremitting attention to its business; of the care which he has devoted. to the improve ment of its forms, and of the urbanity and kindness which have uniformly marked his conduct in the chair, and which have secured for him the esteem and gratitude of every member of this house." (Loud cheers from both sides of the house.) Mr. DTSRAELI (who was received. with cheers,- and spoke in a tone of evident emotion) rose and said I have, sir, the honour to second the motion of the noble lord, and to express on behalf of gentlemen who sit on the left of the chair their entire concurrence with the de scription of your high qualities and the estimate which he has offered of those services which, unfor tunately, are about to terminate. (Cheers.) We too, sir, have been witnesses to the blended firm ness and courtesy with which you have regulated our debates, and, when necessary, controlled them. We also can bear witness to the learning which has guided and enlightened our labours, and can bear witness to the high bearing which, at all times, and under all circumstances, even the most trying, has sustained the dignity of the exalted office which you have filled. (Cheers.) The eighteen years during which you have occupied that chair has been a me morable period in the history of the Parliament of this country. Some of the greatest measures that have ever been proposed in this council of the na tion have been carried during that period, and some of the greatest men that have everflourished within these walls have been under your guidance. I make no doubt that, in the page of history, your speakership, under these circumstances, will figure as no unimportant one in the history of the Parlia ment of this country. The severance of ties so long, so intimately, and so cordiallymaintained be tween you, Mr. Speaker, and this house, cannot be witnessed without deep emotion. I confess myself utterly unequal to the language of panegyric. I confess myself at this moment unequal to offer:you those compliments which you deserve ; but I can offer you for those who sit on this side of the house—and, I may presume perhaps to say, for all present—(cheers)--cer tainlyfor him whom you have often so condescendingly aided and guided by your counsel—the tribute of our affectionate respect— (cheers)—and the expression of the hope that when your name is mentioned in your absence in this house, you will believe that it will always be quoted with regard. and reverence—(cheers)—and of our anxious and earnest wishes that in that compara tive retirement which may await you, you may enjoy that perfect satisfaction which you have so worthily earned. (Loud cheers.) The SPEAKER then read the resolution, which was received with renewed cheering. Lord J. RUSSELL then rose and said—Al though, sir, it may be quite unnecessary to add anything to the eloquent speeches, in which my noble friend at the head of the Government and the right hon. gentleman opposite have expressed the sense of this house of your merits, during the long period in which you have presided over it, 3et for my own gratification it may be perhaps permitted to me—(hear, hear) —having bsen brought into personal relations with you during that long period—to say that I cannot but feel that the manner in which you have conducted the busi ness of this house has facilitated the proper conduct of that business. (Cheers.) I cannot forget, sir, that at the period when you were elected you succeeded one of the most distinguished members of this house —a man eminent for his learning, who for many years had taken a distinguished part in the debates of this home, and who contributed a long experi ence in the affairs of Parliament. But, sir, though that might seem a disadvantage, your merits so speedily attracted the respect and affection of this house—(cheers)—l may say you so won the heart of the house—(renewed cheers)—that the exercise of authority becsmo comparatively' - easy, and every member, whatever his previous - prepossessions, whatever wish he might have had at the moment to persevere in some course you disapproved of, a singe wcr.l from you was sufficient to cause every member to bow at once to your decision. (Loud cheers.) . Sir, these qualities have not only bsen of .the wettest advantage in conducting the ordinary Lusiness of this house, but you have been able by this means to facilitate in a great degree that transition in our procedure to a more speedy form, which has been rendered necessary by the increasing. pressure of business in this house, and you have been able to discriminate with nicety of judgment whether it was possible to depart in some degree from ancient and accustomed form which regulate our procedure without am rendering any useful privilege. You have correctly marked the line whE re it was advantageous to proceed, and where it was necessary to resist any innovation of those established laws. (Cheers.) I believe that nothing in our whole institutions is more carefully contrived, or more useful in carrying on the busi ness of a great country than our mode of procedure, and the regular order of the debates in this home. But at the same time, it is difficult to keep up all these orders in their strictness without in some degree delaying the business of the house. Fur ther changes may be necessary, and I can only hope that in whoever may have the honour to suc ceed you in that chair the house may see the same qualities, the same excellent judgment, the same power or authority, and the same art Of con eliating the good-will and. affection of the house which you have so remarkably exhibited. I can only further express my extreme regret, which is shared I am sure by awry member of this house, that this is an occasion upon which we have to take leave of you. (Cheers.) The SPEAKER having put the resolution in the usual form, which was carried amidst the most en thusiastic cheering, proceeded to say—l can assure the house that, during the long period it has pleased God to enable me to discharge the duties of the chair, I have bad abundant opportunity of witness ing the kindness, forbearance, and indult once which the house has shown to me under all cir cumstances and upon all occasions. Bit I have not words at my command, nor can I sufficiently control my feelings so as adequately to express my gratitude for th;s crowning mark of their favour and approbation. (Cheers.) I can only assure the house that I shall remember—l shall ever cherish the proceedings of this day to the last hour of my existence ; and that the resolution to which you have sunanimously agreed shall ever los considered by me as a great and invaluable reward for my public services —(cheers) —and in all sincerity, and from the very bottom of my heart, I thank you for the distinguished honour you have conferred upon me. (Loud cheers.) [Upon Mr. Speaker addressing the house, the mem bers all simultaneously took off their hats as a matter of respect. This courtesy is generally offered on messages from the Queen, and on this occasion was most compli mentary and gratifying..] Lord PALMERSTON again rose and said—Sir, I am persuaded the house would not be satisfied if upon this occasion we abstain from following those precedents which we find have taken place upon former similar occasions. It has been the practice of this house, when deprived of the services of Speakers who have ably filled the chair of the house, not to content themselves simply with an expression of their own thanks, but to give to the Crown an opportunity of going hand in hand with this house in its acknowledgments of great and meritorious services. I shall therefore, without further preface, following the example of previous occasions, move that a humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she would be pleased to confer some mark of loyal favour upon you, sir, and assuring her Majesty that this house will make g o od any expenditure that may be attendant upon such marks of the royal favour. (Loud cheers.) Sir J. P AKINGTON—Sir, though I cannot hope to add a nythiui; to the eloquence with which the last vote was moved and seconded by the noble lord and ray right hon. friend, .1 may be allowed the very great gratification of seconding the motion which the noble lord has now made. Sir, lam one of the members of thi s h ouse—l believe, compara tively speaking, now small in number—who have had the honour Of a seat in this house during the whole of the long period of 18 years d ur i ng w hi ch you have so ably filled that chair. Eighteen years ago, when you sittingwere elected to that c h a i r, I was then, a °tri this side of th e h ouse ; and it was not my constitute one of th a t MA is now, f o rtu Mr. T. D UNCOMBE called the attention of the house to the grievances complained of in the petitions (presented ith February) of the non-commissioned offi cers and drivers of the Land Trapped Corps, who served during the late War in the Crimea, and to move that they be referred to a select committee. Sir J. FERGUSSON seconded the motion. Gen. CODRINGTON said there was no doubt that the formation of the Land Transport Corps was, under the circumstances, a matttr of great difficulty to the Government. A great number of the men for that duty were regularly enlisted for 10 years ; among these men many were very good, but many were ignorant of their duties. When they were taken out to the Crimea they had to be organised. He certainly understood that many of them had been regularly enlisted for 10 years, and consequen•ly they were entitled to their regular parch ment discharge, and so far as they bad not received that discharge, and the pay consequent thereupon, an injus tice had been committed against these men—unless, in deed, it should appear that their accounts took a long time in settling. He thought that several statements in the letter of Col. M‘Murdo werejustified. There was no thing in the Mutiny Act, nor was there any otherautho rity to show that these men were entitled to a gratuity upon their discharge. But these men were taken out to the Crimea under circumstances of great difficulty ; they were formed and organised out there, and they became a very efficient corps. It became necessary to add a great number of other men to the corps, and all were employed at work as land transport men. When the war was over they were brought back to England and were entitled to their discharge and pay. Those men were fairly entitled to the consideration of the Government and the country, and he hoped some means would be found to give effect to the proper forts of discharge. Mr. PEEL said the motion and the speech of the hon. gentleman behind him (Mr. T. Duncombe) illustrated the d , fficulty in which the Goverainer4 were placed, for, on the one hand, they had to consult the feelings and opi nions of these men, who were enlisted i❑ a time of great emergency, whose expectations had not been realised, and whose hopes, which they entertained when theyjoined the service, bad been disappointed ; while, on the other hand, motions of economy were pressed upon the Government as soon as the emergency bad parsed away. The hon. member stated that these men had upon an average a claim against the Government of 141. or 151. per man. Eta could undertake to reply to that statement, and he felt sure that that was not the case, for very few indeed of the whole number of men who formed the Land Transport Corps had any claim against the Government— Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he did not say one word about average, but that men were walking about the streets who had claims against the Government. Mr. PEEL said he quite agreed that the corps was raised at a time of great difficulty, and when it was felt that some such corps was much wanted to assist the army in the Crimea. The Government was determined to raise a special corps for that purpose, and these men were engaged without that scrutiny as to whe ther they were fit for the service for which they were designed. As fast as they were raised they were seat out to the Crimea; and upon the termina tion of the war they were brought back to England, and their number reduced, as was the case with al the other portions of the army. The hon. gentleman was not justi fied in founding upon his motion an attack upon the War Department, and upon the letter of CA. M`Murdo, who exerted himself to bring all these men back from the Crimea. He feat quite confident that ad the advice given by that gentleman was given by him according to what he believed was correct upon the subject. These men complained because they had been sent out of the ser ♦ice. Undoubtedly they had been sent out of the service as soon as the war was concluded, but that happened to a large number of men in all the other branches of the army. This was quite unavoidable if the Government wished to consult economy. They could not keep persons in an employment for which they were no longer re quired, and it was quite impossible to keep these men in employment in a time of peace. The hon. gentleman had referred to the mode in which these men had been • discharged from the service, The ordinary practice un doubtedly was, when a soldier who had served for a length of time was discharged from the service, to have a board of officers to inquire into hilt case, to record his services, and tkereapon to grant a certificate of discharge, The discharge was one thing, but the document or certi ficate of discharge was another. It was perfectly compe tent for the Secretary of State to furnish the person dis charged with a certificate ; but the services of these men were of short duration ; and therefore to those men who chimed pensions, partial certificates were granted in the form in which the Secretary of State thought fit. In con sequence of these certificates being granted the men were enabled to procure employment in the police, and in the service of railway companies. If it were thought that any imputation rested upon the character of any of those men because of these certificates not having been granted, it could be easily removed on reference to the Horse Guards. An objection had been made to the gratuities given to the foreign levy ; and it was said that the land transport men had been harshly treated because they had not been placed on the same footing, but it was clear the hon. member did not know the difference between the foreign levy and Ehe Land Transport Corps. The latter was a part of the army, but the foreign levy was an exceptional corps, en gaged for special services, and it was competent to the Crown to reward them specially; but if the Government had, upon the redUction of the Land Transport Corps, agreed to give gratuities to them, all the men in the army who were discharged might claim the same gratuities. No proud e was ever made to these men upon their dis charge to give tliem any gratuity. No person in the army was entitled to a gratuity beyond the sum of 204 upon his discharge, and therefore the claim put forward for this gratuity was altogether unfounded. The hon. mem ber said he should move for the appointment of a com mittee unless the claims of these men for compensation for clothing were satisfactorily adjusted. It was quite true that these men were not furnished with clothing at the moment of enlistment, and they were sent out to the East without it. Those men who did not receive proper clothing were entitled to compensation. A great number of men had sent in claims ; but he had been as sured by Co'. INl'Murdo that very few cases remained to be disposed of. He hoped his reply would be considered satisfactory by the hon, member, and teat he would no press his motion for a committee. Sir J. TYRELL said he quite agreed with the hon. member who had just sat down that extraordinary diffi culties beset the Government in a time of peace, and prevented them from doing justice to the service. Re knew of an instance in reference to the huts at Colches- ter, where, in consequence of altered. circumstances, the former estimate of 14,0001. which was required to put them in a state of efficiency, had been cut down to 2,0001. It was therefore quite impossible t• briga,ds a considerable number of troops. there. In consequence of the pressure of the doctrines of the peace -at-any-price party the Government were obliged to act meanly, and he had lately seen seve ral soldiers wearing the Crimean medals who had been punished for trifling offences, and treated like felons. He hoped that after the next general election the noble lord would find himself able to do justice to the Laud Trans port Corps, and to the other services of the country. He regretted to see, as a result of the present wretched and miserable economy, men who had distinguished them selves in their country's cause, and who had a quarter of a peck of medals amongst them, dragged through the town of Chelmsford like felons for trifling offences. Sir J. FERGUSSON said that the hon. gentleman the Under-Secretary for War had denied the existence of the grievance and denied the remedy. The hon. gentleman said that the men of the Land Transport Service had been " enlisted like any other part of the army, and that they were liable to reduction on the return of peace. He (Sir J. Fergusson) was, however, of opinion that any body of men who took service for the benefit of their country ought not to be dismissed without the proper discharge to which every soldier was entitled. He complained that the men of the Land Transport Service were not treated with the same consideration that was extended to foi sign mercenaries. If men of the German legion were provided with grants of land why should the soldiers of the regu lar army be forced to beg in the streets ? He contended that public faith had not been kept with the officers and men of the Land Transport Service, who were the last men in the service who ought to be the victims of shabby or false economy. (Hear.) After a few words from Col. HERBERT in support of the motion, Mr. DUNCOMBE replied, and said that, as the ans wer of the Under-Secretary for War vas far from satis- jority by which you were chosen ; but I believe from that day to this the members of that majority, and the members of that minority, have been all unanimous in a feeling of gratitude for your kind ness, and admiration for the manner in which you have fulfilled your public duties, and of deep and sincere private private friendship, which I am sure has been felt by every one who has had the good fortune to approach you throughout that time. It is therefore with feelings of sincere and deep emo tion that I reciprocate the language held by the noble lord on the other side of the house, when I express my deep regret that we shall lose the great advantage of your services. I can only acid it is my sincere wish that your retirement may be as happy and as honourable as your heart can wish. (Loud cheers.) The SPEAKER then put the motion as follows : ---,‘ That an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying her Majesty that she will be most graciously pleased to confer some signal mark of her Royal favour upon the Ri g ht H onoura ble Charles Shaw Lefevre, Speaker of this house, for his great and eminent services performed to his country during the long and important period in which he has with such great ability and integrity presided in the chair of this house ; and to assure her Majesty that whatever expense hor Majesty shall think proper to be incurred upon that account this house will make good the same. This question was then unanimously agreed to. Lord PALMERSTON—I beg leave to movethat the thanks of this house be given to Mr. Speaker, for what he has said upon this occasion, and that the same be inserted in the votes and entered in the journals of this house. (Cheers.) The motion was also unanimously agreed to. It was then ordered that the said Address be pre sented to her Majesty by such . members of this house as are of her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council. LAND rRANSPORT CORPS. factory be would accept his offer to take the committee. He differed with the hon. gentleman in his interpretation of the law, for he could not understand how it was that the Secretary of State could do away with the articles of war, which declared that every soldier discharged from her Majesty's service was entitled to his arrears of pay and a certificate on parchment. The treatment of the German Legion contras - tell very favourably with that to which the Land Transport service had been subjected. The men of the German Legion got 221. a-head, an acre of land at the Cape, and a free passage, and yet of the 2,100 men of the Land Transport Service who went to the Crimea only 600 returned, and many of these had to complain of grievances which they were prepared to prove before the committee. The motion was then agreed to. • COURT OF SESSION (SCOTLAND). Mr. BLACK moved an address for returns of the number of extra sittings of the Court of Session in Scot land, since the Ist day of Jan., 1840, to the Ist day of January, 1857, in terms of the Act 2 and 3 Vic. c. i 6 :- 1, of the whole Court or either Division thereof; and 2, of all or any of the Lords Ordinary ; and by whose di rections such extra sittings took place. Of the number of causes standing in the short roll of each division of the Court and ready for hearing, at the meeting of the Court in November, during each of the last 10 years; and of the number f cases decided at each of the extra sittings by each Division and each Lord Ordinary. Agreed to. _ DUTY ON RACE HORSES. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved for leave to bring in a bill to make an alteration in the mode of collecting the duty on race-horses. Under the bill of last year the duty was collected by the clerk of the course ; bat it was now considered more desirable to place the collection of it in the hands of the Board of Inland Revenue. The bill had been prepared with that object, but it did not in any way alter the duty itself. Leave was given to bring in the bill. CINQUE PORTS. Mr. WILSON obtained leave to bring in a bill to cor• red an error in the Cinque Ports Bill of last year. SLATE TRADE. Sir G. PECHELL moved for a return of her Majesty's ships and vessels employed on the coast of Cuba, and on the coast of Africa, for the prevention of the slave trade, from the Ist Jan., 1854, to the latest date, distinguish ing steam from sailing vessels. Agreed to. INCOME TAX, On the motion for the house going into committee on this bill, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY called the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the necessity of the Go vernment making provision in this bill to prevent per sons from having to pay income and property tax twice over in consequence of the deficiencies arising from the defalcations of the collector. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said tbere was such a provision already provided in the act of 1854, with reference to the collectors of the land tax, assessed taxes, and income tax. By a clause in that act any parish might appoint its own collector with seem i ties, or petition the Inland Revenue Department to un dertake the collection of the income tax. Mr. ALCOCK thought it would be much better if the Government would make it compulsory, and not permis sive, for the Inland Revenue officers to collect the in come tax. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that the working of the act referred to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been beneficial to the metropolitan parishes. The house then went into committee on the bill. On clause 1, authorising the reduction of the income tax from Is. 41. to 7d., commencing on the sth of April next, Sir F. KFLLY said that, in moving the adoption of the amendment of which be had given notice, he bad no motive or desire to obstruct her Majesty's Government in raising the necessary supplies. The Chancellor of the Ex chequer on several occasions that session had stated that he was not proposing an increase, but a reduction in the amount of income tax. His chief if not his sole motive in pressing his amendment was to record his protest against that their first departure from the act of 1853. He knew it had been stated that the act of 1853 was at an end by the imposition of the war tax, and that the house had now only to deal with the latter, but to such reasoning he could not subscribe. He would not say that in pass ing the act of 1853 a compact was entered into, or that a pledge was made between the Government and the people, but that it was emphatically and expressly de clared that by it there should be a settlement of the question. It was now said that that act was at an end, but he could not subscribe to that statement, because, although be and the country had considered that the act •f 1853 was a complete settlement of the income tax, though it was not a compact, but what might be called elsewhere a contract between the public and Parliament, because when the income tax was voted it was for seven years, and any arrangement since come to in consequence of the war was only a suspension and not an abolition of that act. There had been a contention between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the hon. member for the University of Oxford as to the term reduction—one speaking of a war, and the other of a peace income ; but in speaking of the reduction in a time of peace he (Sir F. K•1Iy) considered it an increase from sd. to 7d. After referring to the fact of the house being called on to vote the income tax without knowing the estimates, especi ally as the 23 increase on the income tax gave an incr ease of two millions, he concluded by moving the substitution of sd. for 73. on the amount of the income tax for the ensuing year. Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that a sufficient re duction might be made in the estimate to admit of the reduction of the income t:tx to sd. If the Government had to provide f o r two wars ire could understand how it was that there was en increase of four millions over the estimates of 1854. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the act of 1855, providing for the levying of the 161. income tax, was as much the authority of that house as the act of 1853 ; and if it were nut to be re pealed the high rate of duty must be collected after the sth of April next. He did not believe that any advan tage arose in continuing the discussion whether the duty of 16d. in the pound were higher than the duty of 7d., a reduction. ndthe n e x and whether the bill be now proposed was or was not a reduction of the existing duties. Taking the law as it stood, and without going into the question of what the law ought to have been, it grounds, it was a That being so , he thought that the hon. member (Sir F. Kelly) had failed on (Hea r,) aeration was the moral grounds on which he had based his motion. The hon. and learned gentleman had referred to the contract entered into in 1853, and he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) quite agreed with him that had there been uninterrupted peace from that time to the pre sent, and had the Government then come forward and proposed an increase in this tax, that then there worild have been some weight in his argument ; but 'the state of things with which they had to deal was totally diffe rent. The foundation of the settlement referred to had been altered and subverted by the way, which rendered it necessary not only to increase the tax during past years, but to make provision for debts which would be come due in subsequent years. In May next they would have to meet 2,000,0001. bonds according to the terms of the act of Parliament, and which debt was contracted for the purpose of the war, and 250,0601. as a sinking fund, therefore there was to be provided this year under the existing laws a sum of 2,250,000/. created by the war which broke out in 1854. It had been said that the Government asked for this money without showing a sefficient reason, but he could only say that ho stated at great length on e former night his grounds for the pro bable expenditure of the present year—(hear, hear) — and the way the Government proposed to meet it. The estimates of the army and the navy had been laid on the table of the house ; and, though they had not dis cussed their details, the details had been exhibited to the house. The hon. and learned member had expressed Its ignorance of the estimates, whilst the honour able member for Lambeth considered them too high; but, of course, the Government was not to be open to such opposite charges, of first not having produced tlei n, and then that they were too high. The hon. member fur Lambeth said that the Government, to justify an in crease of four millions over the estimates of 1854, must show that they were engaged in two wars • but he (the Chancellor of the Ex c heq uer ) w ou ld be una blel to estab lish that fact. Now, with respect to Persia, peace had been negotiated with the plenipotentiary at Parts, and there was no reason to suppose that there would be any further differences. At all events it was a great step that the treaty had been signed, and that there was no reason to suppose that the war with Persia bad been ex tended. As to the expenses of the war, this country would have to pay one-half of the extraordinary expenses. Mr. WILLIAMS.—What is the amount The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it would be impossible for him to tell until the accounts came in from the East India Company. At all events, whatever it might be, the East India Company would have to pay all the ordinary expenses ' and only half the extraordinary expenses would co me out of the Exchequer. With regard to the debts arising out of the hostilities at Canton, it would be impossible for him or any other member to speak with confidence. All he could say was, that as far as her Majesty's Government were at present informed, they saw no•reason to anticipate that the ordinary naval and mili tary expenses of the year would be materially increased, while sufficient protection would be afforded to the lives and property of British subjects at Canton. He therefore could not claim his hon. friend's vote upon any grounds of increased charges arising out of the two wars referred to- There were many difficulties in the way of reductions after a great war; and if hon. members would look to the de bates of 1816, they would find that those difficulties were distinctly pointed out by the Government of that day, and recognised by the house. (Hear.) When the estimates were examined by the committee, he thought it would be found that they had been framed upon reasonable principles. Ile trusted, therefore, that the committee would see that the proposition of the hon. and learned gentleman (Sir Fitzroy Kelly) to reduce the income tax to sd. in the pound would derange the finances of the year, and would either lead to a deficiency or sender the Government unable to discharge debts which ought to be paid off. Before he sat down he might call the attention of the committee to the fact that since the income tax was imposed by Sir Robert Peel in a time of peace, it had never been reduced below 7d. in the poun d. It was renewed for several years at that rate until 1853, after which it was to be continued two years at 7d., two years at 63., and two years at sd. But before it fell to 6d. it was doubled, in consequence of the war, and in short it had never been below 7d. in the pound. The CHAIRMAN put the amendment, which was ne gatived without a division. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he should move, as an amend ment, that the proviso should be struck out imposing a tax of sd. in the pound on incomes between 1001. and 1501. a year. The effect of his amendment would be to take off the income tax from incomes below 1501. a year. He was quite sure that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was aware of the grievances which existed amongst persons with small incomes, and of the oppression which they were subjected to. At the same time, he did not think they would meet with much compassion in that house. Persons with small incomes who had to pay the tax were deprived of mazy comforts, and were hindered in many cases from educating their children. Amongst this class of persons wore literary men, poor curates, shopkeepers, and even working men, who made up the amount which rendered thorn liable by working over time. The hon. gentleman referred to the case of the poor man who was imprisoned for not paying income tax, in respect to which he had been surcharged, the particulars of which have so frequently been before the public. He felt convinced that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could make the reduction ho bad suggested without any injury to the finances of the country. Mr. PELLATT mentioned the case of a widow whose furniture was seized for income tax twelve months after her husband, who was supposed to be liable to it, was dead. It was a most cruel case, and the poor woman, who had a large family, could obtain no redress from the com missioners, nor could she obtain any answer to her letters. Mr. SMITH CHILD said that the cashier of Messrs. Minton, the eminent manufacturers of Stoke-upon-Trent, had been called upon to make a return of all the .persons in their employ who bad 801. a year and upwards. As this was a large firm, and the return would have entailed great trouble, the cashier demurred, but the commissioners said they had the power to enforce it, and would do so. Under these circumstances all the men who had BW. a year were assessed, and lost two or three days in appealing. This was attempted a second time, when Messrs. Minton in structed their cashier not to make the return, and informed the commissioners that they were prepared to take the consequences of the refusal. The application was not re newed. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not agree with the hon. member for Lambeth in thinking that the class of persons whom he had described as being so greatly oppressed would meet with no compassion from that house. Wires the income tax was first imposed sd. per pound was charged on incomes between 1001. and 1501. a year, being 2/. ls. Bd. per cent. As the tax now stood at this moment under the increase it was 11d. in the pound on that class of persons, or 41. 15s. 101 per cent. If such a man were called upon each half-year for V. Bs., that was no doubt a heavy impost; but the fact must not be lost sight of that the bill before the house reduced the amount from Hid. to sd. in the pound. The total amount in question was 350,0001., and that was a larger sum than he should feel justified in calling upon the house to surrender. The other gentleman said he had inquired into the case of the poor man who had been imprisoned ; and he believed the commissioners bad given him some relief. With respect to the case mentioned by the hon. member for Southwark (Mr. Pellatt), he would inquire into it if the hon. gentleman would favour him with the particulars. Mr. WILLIAMS said he wished to withdraw his amendment, and to substitute another. He proposed that after the word " gains" in the proviso, to add, he shall not be chargeable for the year commencing as aforesaid, of any tax upon incomes under 1501. a year." (Hear.) Mr. SMITH CHILD said the Chancellor of the Exche quer had not taken any notice of the case he had men tioned. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not sufficiently acquainted with the details of the ma nagement and collection of the income tax to offer any opinion. He presumed that the local commissioners bad returns on which they acted, and the persons thus charged had means of income from other sources. The local com missioners were not Government officers, but if the hon. gent'eusan would give him the particulars he would cause inquiries to be made. Mr. WILKINSON opposed the am e ndment o f hi s h on . colleague (Mr. Williams). If they excused persons who had incomes under 15J1. a year from the payment of the income tax, he did not see why they should make people with 1511. a year pay. He thought that taxes should be adjusted as equally as possible ; and if one class were re lieved, it must be done at the expense of another equally poor. Lord H. VANE opposed the amendMent. The committee divided, and the numbers were-- For the amendment 7 Against it 53 Majority The amendment was consequently lost. On the question that clause 1 be part of the bill, Sir H. WILLLOUGHBY observed that the word "pro perty " was left out of the proviso. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not aware that there was any reason for a change in the phraseology. Profits from gains and property were meant. Mr. BARROW wanted more distinct explanations as to the clause. It was not sufficiently definite ; and for that purpose he moved the insertion of the word " property." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the best course would be to recommit the bill, when the word "property," to which he had no objection, could be introduced. The clause was then agreed to. The preamble of the bill was agreed to. Mr. THORNELY complained of the trouble and loss of time to which poor persons were put in appealing under the bill. They were obliged to leave their homes, which caused both expense and waste of time. He thought that some remedy ought to be provided. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he would consider provisions to obviate this inconvenience. The bill was then reported. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that it be committed. Mr. GLADSTONE said that this was a novel proceed ing, consequent, he supposed, upon the new modes they had adopted. Some explanation ought to be given to the house. Amendments used to be proposed, not by recom mitment, but at a future stage of the bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that there 14 as a doubt whether more than verbal amendments could be introduced at that stage of the bill, and it was better to recommit it. The SPEAKER explained that this was the course adopted when errors were discovered which it was neces sary to rectify. The motion for the recommitment was then agreed to, and the bill passed through committee pro forms. SUPPLY—THE-NAVAL ESTIMATES. On bringing-up the report of supply, Mr. GLADSTONE rose to move the following resolu tion : That in order to insure to the country that relief from taxation which it justly expected, it is necessary in the judgment of the house to revise and further reduce the expenditure of the State. He said that the First Lord of the Admiralty was guilty of an act of impolicy the night before in taking advantage of the forms of the house, and compelling him to postpone his speech. Speeches of mem bers did not waste during an interval like spirits in bond. It was the better- policy to let them speak at the moment. However, it was not his intention to trespass at any length. Nothing but the conviction that we were entering upon a mischievous course, and that before long we should see the consequences would have induced him in the present state of the benches [there were about 45 members prssent], to enter upon such a vast But jut as the finances of the coun try. He should move a re:olution to the effect that it wai expedient to review and reduce the expenditure of the country. He did not intend to enter upon any subjects that had been already disposed of by the house in previous debates. For instance, the house had determined not to take up any operation for the cessation of the income tax. It had determined not to abide by the resolution of 1853 respecting the tea duties. Again, the house was voting that the income tax should be kept up for the purpose of providing for the ways and means of the country, and did not consider the connection between the tax and further reforms in our legislation. There seemed to heve been an extra chaise's, in the spirit of the house. Wh en th e h ouse agree d i n 1853 tothe issue of Exchequer Bonds, it was understood.to be merely in anticipation of revenue then due but not paid. If it had been possible he might have solicited the house to apply these sums to the reduction of war obligations ; but this did not appeesr to be the wish of the House of Commons, and he should cease to urge it. The position of the house was peculiar and inexact. Great objections were taken in the early part of the session, Sey members from every quarter, to the amount of the estimates now on the table. The s n t o r b e l n e g e l s o t r d t e t r h m e s a e ti mb d e w r h f l r eLondonhe eeeh expressed t t h h d i s r a i w n the his support from the budget, expressed in some detail his ob jection to the amount of the estimates. If the house had not been affected by the dissolutio n , it would have agreed to the principle of furth er reductions in the estimates. Their position was thus a peculiar one. In 1811 they had passed votes on account, to enable ministers to dissolve Parliament with the view of taking the opinion of the country as to confidence i n th e Government. But these were estimates which the house had a general disposition to agree to. At present there was a disposition to question the esti mates. Parliament was about to vote for four months' esti mates to which it objected, because the Government was under a vote of censure. The'effect of his motion would be not to upset abstract principles or interfere with supply, but to refer the estimates to the Government for considera tion by expressing in particular terms the opinion that it was the duty of Government in the interval of the recess to apply themselves to the estimates with the view of reduction in public expenditure. Ho had no objection to votes on ac count, except when they were in contradiction to the opi nions of the house. He would ask the house to agree to his motion on the two grounds—first, that there was not an ade quate provision madefor the necessities of the year ; and se cendg, which was the mostimportant, that the expenditured the country was not kept under due control—that it had in creased to the point which was embarrassing, and even threatened to become alarming. It had been seen that there was a deficiency in 1858-9 of five millions and a half, am the deficiency had been increased to eight or nine millions by the weans of the severalchanges which had taken place in the proposals of the Government The Chancellor of the Exchequer had made and abandoned a proposal for the in crease of tea and sugar, and there was a diminution in the amount which he had set down for the income tax, so that in addition to the old deficien c y th ere was the deficiency and that of the failure in the provision respecting tea and sugar. Their last deficiency amounted to 1,400,000/. and the deficiency in the income tax was about two millions, making a sum of 3,400,0001. to be a idea to the deficiency of the permanent provision of 1858-9. It was startling to in the addition to the four or five millions formerly shown deficient, making a deficiency of between 8 and 9 millions. In this he did not take into account any improvement in revenue which might take place, and hesupposed that the Government would fulfil their pledge with regard to the sinking fund. His right hon. friend had opened a retreat in saying that the sinking fund might perhaps be post poned. Neither had he taken into account any reduction in expenditure. His object was to show how urgent it was that Parliament should consider seriously the expenditure of the country. The only of her alternative was either making loans or imposing new taxes. He called their se rious attention to what was required for the next year ; but even for the present year the position was not Eatisfac. tory. The estimates of his right hon. friend had originally shown a surplus of 900,000/., which was reduced to 800,0001. shortly after. He would not inquire into the consequences of the war with China or Persia. His right hon. friend had said that he did not anticipate any charge on account of China. Ho (Mr. Gladstone) thought this too good to be true, but if there was to be a charge on the war with China, as there certainly must be on the war with Persia, a surplus of 500, 1 .00/. was not a satisfactory balance between income and expenditure for the current year. It was the duty of the house, before it dissolved, to make known its views on the subject of the expenditure of the country, so that the Government might consider the expediency of reduction before submitting the estimates to the new Parliament. They had done a popular act in giving up the war ninopence. This was not done under the necessities of public business. The bill which they were then passing for the reduction of the income tax t f o or p a la n ce e new theirParliamentviews o t n o swru h eci c a se oh v e rose dsdi,consideredsuccession o since s a tle reductionthe subject. o f from sixteen-pence to sevenponce would not take effect till the first of July next—so that there might have been time the balance was unsatisfactory, it was incumbent on them ex penditurelf was the only plan on a fair basis for giving satis retvilheeenue which might be capable of in faction to the country when a deficiency of revenue stared n LoLnolyaa s o m f al t l h a e mot in crease. arheienams itemse. i T t h ih e ne r e fta w hce a e say duty. a f e few t w t o h r e d s porno time sceeurt- Th e t c produced A Nc E million, E XC HEQUER: Half a Mr. GLADSTONE—There had been promises, which would have given great increase to the tax, but even when it arrived at its maximum, which would be in 1863, it would not produce more than 1,300,0001.. Now the Government had not yet introduced the supplement to the tax, that on succession of corporations. Why did they delay them ? It might be said that he might himself have done this in U 54, but the reason was that the act had then only just come into operation—it mi.ht have re quircd improvement, and therefore the further tax was kept back. But this reason did not apply to .'11153 ,- .1 tient years. Ho wassorry that more energetic measures were not taken wiih the department under which the tax came, that of Inland Revenue. Much was left undone in this department owing to the weakly way in which it was conducted. Money was in the hands of the department and not paid over, because it was never abreast of its work. Both the succession and legacy duties were greatly in arrear. He now came to the heads of the estimates for the military and civil service. In the military estimates the total had increased since 1853 by seven millions. Striking off much that would cease or b e reproductive; they cou ld not put the increase at less than six millions. A small portion of this was due to the charge of the war ; it was not more than 750,0001., taking the charge of the funded and unfunded debt together. This left about five millions and a half for the augmentation of our expenditure in four years. His right hon. friend had said that thole was a difficulty in reducing estimates imme diately after a war. But this was not immediately after a war. At the end of the financial year 15 me nths would have elapsed since we were virtually sure of peace, and 12 months since we were actually at peace. There might be small sums of arrears and leavings, but that was more than balanced by increased demands, which might be expected. He looked upon the present estimates as peace estimates, and with this view he hoped the house would express its opinion that these estimates were susceptible of reduction. The military estimates for 1841-2 were 14,700,0001., at which period , here was an increase of several millions since 1835. In 1846 there were large preparations on account of the menacing state of oar affairs with America. The estimates were in that year 16,830,0001. For 1848 they were 17,60 x,OOOl. At this point they passed the patience of Parliament, and the house showed such severe marks of its displeasure that the Government reconsidered the matter, and reduced the estimates by three mil lions. They were increased again in 1852 to 16,012,0 A/. He would take that year for comparison, as it was a year materially affected by the large cost of preparation in view of war. At present, with so many causes of tranquillity— in Ireland, in our internal relations—there was no occasion for the large armies we once had. A small army, in pro per order, would answer the purp ose b e tt er th an l arge armies under the system of former times. In 1853, the expenditure was 16,612,000/. In the present year, includ ing the item alre dy allowed for the Persian war, the esti mate was 20,573,000/. ; so that on our military estimates there was an increase of four or five millions since 1852. Ho would now take the cavil estimates. He was not disposed to deal more lightly with ih tur than with the military es timates. There was more danger in the first than in the last, which came before them in a great lump, and which were theref, le better observed, and were subject to reac tions which would lead very probably in time to unwise and precipitate reductions. It was not so with the civil estimates. They grew up in a thousand ways, and were hardly ever brought into totals. Tho estimates required to be rudely overhauled. No doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer did what he could, and those who pestered him ab extra, had done much to strengthen the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which required to be strength en ei both against his friends and against the house itself. Yery often when they came to details, there was much dif ficulty in restraining the house. He could give many in stances. One was the immense charges voted by that house with respect to the Ordnance survey. Those who bad supported the survey last year were not aware that the effect of their vote would be to entail a charge of four or five millions on the country, and which was hastily voted away in an hour or two, while mans of the persons who is) voted did so without knowing what they were voting about. Again, there were the votes on education. He frankly avowed that ho viewed with jealousy the growth of votes on education, not that we had reached the maximum, but bee/two ' in conse quence, great extrav a g ance prevailed in the several departments, each imagining that by spending money it stopped the popular movement in other directions than its own. He had no love for the plan of the right hon. member for Droitwich or the hon. member for the West Riding, but he would not oppose them by illegitimate means. The heedless or even mischievous proposals were made to the committee of council, they were ewe -tened by the proposal to find half the money, and unnecessary waste of public money was the result. Again, an act was passed last year for the appointment of a Vice-President of the Committee Of Council on Education. Last year, when the measure was carried, not so much was said about the duties of the office as about the usefulness of having a person in that house to answer questions. This was not a satisfactory reason, yet such as it was it had failed. When the right hon. member for D-oitwich the other night had asked the Go vernment what course they would pursue with regard to his proposal on education, he was answered by a gentleman of excellent abilities, but who was not a Cabinet Minister, and who could only give his own individual opinions, and not those of the Government on the question. On one oc t.asion the office in question remained for five months vir tually unfilled, the gentleman who held it being abroad, and there being no immediate necessity for the actual exercise of its functions. He did not find f ault with the Government for not exercising the power of filling up the post during his absence, but he certainly thought it wrong that an office should exist having functions which did not require the constant attendance of the gentleman who held it, but the functions of which requiring occasional attention, and being that of great importance, could be much batter discharged by a Cabinet Minister. Ho should not think he fulfilled his duty unless he frankly stated that he was not satisfied with the spirit of the Government in respect to public money, and his opinion was that the public money was not administered with that strictness which, in his opinion, ought to obtain. He did not think that the whole blame ought to rest on the Government, for he thought that even in that house quite a different set of ideas and of rules obtained from what were in vogue and had the sanction of all public men 15 or 20 years ago. Instances of this were to be found in the appointments to the judicial bench. The occasion would be fresh in their recollections when a sum of 50,000/. a year was set aside for the purpose of relieving the suitoma in the county courts of what were thought to be too heavy charges. He thought at the time that this was a very doubtful measure. But if the nation was to be subjected to so heavy a charge, that suits in the county cour t s m i g h t have justice partly at the public expense, might they not look nearer h nue and consider if the duties of the judges in the courts of Westminster had not fallen within and be low the powers of the staff there maintained ? He was afraid he was touching upon a sore subject, but he felt that a public duty requirrd that he should make those observa tions. This question having beeie mooted last session a promise was made that it should have the consideration of the Government during the recess. Late in the recess a commission was appointed, but since that period two judgeships fell vacant. Instead of making temporary ar rangements p ming the decision of that commission, the Government fills up both vacancies, and on a third va cancy, on the death of the late lamented Baron Alderson, the same course was taken ; but he was hound to say, without the expression of any dissent on the part of the house. Having spoken of Baron Alderson, he must pay a tribute to the m• query of that lamented man—(applause)— who, when this questi on was being mooted, wrote to him (Mr. Gladstone) at Y, 14, being at that time abroad, a let ter which he (Mr Gladstone) now held in his hand, in which he declared that it was indisputable that 12 judges would be sufficient for the term business, and further sug gested arrangements by which the circuit business might be so arranged that no inconvenience would arise from the reduction. H 3 (Mr. Gladstone) asserted that if in the administration of Lord Melbourne appointments had been filled in which such a commission as that he had referred to had been appointed, Sir Robert Peel, as leader of the Opposition, would have risen in his place in that house to propose an address to the Crown upon the subject, which would have been car ried not by the Opposition only, bat by the support of the whole house. So if Sir Robert Peel had ventured upon such a step, Lord John Russell would have risen against it, and would have been supported by the whole house. But he was doing an injustice to Lcrd Melbourne and to Sir Robert Peel iu supposing anything of the s or t ; f or th e feeling both of Governme n t s and of Parliaments in those times would have rendered such proceedings impossible. It was impossible to bring down these estimates to what they were at the time he had referred to, but that was no reason why the same strictuess should not be applied to the outlay of public money as used to be applied during the memory of the present generation. The time was come when this matter must be considers I. Political predictions were always unsafe, but he would venture to say that the Government would not be able to go on an other year in the present course without a strong move ment of public opinion. He defied them to meet the re quirements of the public finance next year without open ing up the whole question. He would advise them to employ a portion of the comparative leisure which would shortly be at their disposal in reconsidering the estimates, which appeared to him to be beyond what the necessities of the country require 1. Having satisfied a sense of duty by making this st dement, he would leave it to the house to deal with the matter as they might think fit. Sooner or later it must be met, and such a question was always better handled in proportion as it was earlier attended to. It might be dealt with to the greater satisfaction of the public, and with less risk of precipitancy, being taken in hand in good time, than if they waited till public impa tience compelled them to do foolishly what they would not do wisely in time. The right hon. gentleman concluded by observing that he did not intend to oppose the votes on credit. Mr. WILLIAMS said that the right honourable gentle man had made so clear a statement that he (Mr. Williams) should not trouble them at any length, feeling that be could not add to the unquestionable proofs advanced by the right hon. gentleman. Ho must observe, however, that he had no doubt, looking at the present operation of the income tax on personal property, from a million and a half to two millions might be added to the national in come.. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that in the wide survey of the present situation of the finances of this country, which the right hon. mem b er h ad illus trated with the experience gained in the office he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) now had the honour to fill, there was much in which he con curre d , and as to that per! tido that contained matter to which he could not assent, he fully admitted that there was much that was worthy of consideration. As the righi hon. gentl eman ' s p r i nc i pa l object was satisfied, namely, that of bringing the subject under consideration, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) hoped he should not be thought to treat the right hon. gentleman or the house with disrespect if he did not fo," low him through the whole of his remarks. With regard to taxation, he had no apprehension of any deficiency; and in respect to future years, he would only observe that he placed all future years out of the question, considering that as they sere only about to take votes on credit for a parr of the present year, it would be a waste of time to enter into the consideration of future years. It would be the duty of the Government to take measures from year to year to meet the expenditure out of the ordinary resources of the country, and not to resort to credit, which he considered was not a legitimate resource in time of peace. (Cheers.) Whether this was to be ac complished by new taxation or by reducing the expendi ture it was not for him now to say. This was the first year since 1853 that it had not been the duty of the 4 financier to exhibit a great deficie nc y. In granting this vote on account, the house were not pledging them selves to any approval of the estimates, even for the four months ; but on the assembling of the new Parliament it would be competent for the house to discuss the estimates of the year as a whole. In respect to the appointment of the judges, it appeared to him that pcnding the decision of the commission it was impossible to take any other course than what had been adopted. The duties . must be pe_fornapd, which could only be done by the fiLlingup ofthe vacancies ; nor could any change be made till the commission had re ported.He ted trusted that having attained his object of draw. ing attention to the subject, his right hon. friend vpuldnot think it necessary to press this question to a division. Mr. CARR GLYN said that the first year after a war afforded no criterion of the expenditure in years of peace but it would be the duty of the new P arliarnent, wh en t he y should meet, -to take the whole question into its very serious consideration. In his opinion much good would be done, if immedi4tely on the re-assembling of Parliament, A gm. mittee were appointed to consider the whole question and. if it were understood that the estimates for 1858 and 1859 should not be produced till thi t committee had reported- He had heard with surprise and alarm. suggestions for nieetin the expe,nditure in time of peace, by resc.rting to credit • be trust e d th a t suc h a course would never b e sane tionedby the house. At the close - of the French. war com plaints were made of what was then termed an "ignorant impatience of taxation" on the part of the public, and though that phrase had been laughed at, he thought there was a good deal of reason i n the idea it conveyed. Mr. NEWDEGATE, while contending that full inquiry was necessary, thought it would be useless to turn the whole taxation over to a committee in a lump, but urged that every department should be submitted to a distinct com mittee for a rigid investi ga ti on , and that th e h ouse s hould thus resume its pow er o f controlling the lavish expenditure which he admitted to exist. He as much as any one re- ' gretted the increase of expenditure alluded to by previous speakers, but if they were determined to substitute paid for unpaid officer 4, and to rteprive the people of the power of local self-government, they would not only depart from a wise and constitutional system of government, but would find an increase of expenditure inevitable. Mr. DISRAELI did not think they ought to talk about what they intended to do in the next Parliament. Be hoped the next Parliament would be a vigorous one, fresh from the embraces of the people--(laughter)—and he trusted the suggestion of the hon. member for Sandal would not be adopted, because that would be simplyremoving the duties of the Government to a committee. He protested against the principle. A committee to prepare the estimates was the very last resource. The estimates ought to be prepared by the Government and defended by the Government. Se hoped that the new Parliament would hold the Governmi . to the due performance of their duties, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that from what had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer he thought they had to prepare for either a reduced expenditure or increased taxes. In a few years there would be a reduction on the income tax of four millions and a half, and that must of course be either made up or they must have reduced ex penditure. _ The amendment was then negatived without* division, and the report was received. EXTRA.-PAROeHIAL PLACES BILL. On the motion for going into committee on this bill, Sir G. PECHELL objected to its being proceeded with. The house then went into committee on the bill. On clause 1 being proposed, Sir G. PEC HELL complained bitterly of the proceeding of the Poor-law Board. Ever since the present President of the Poor-law Bo ar d h a d b een in office he had been in • constant collision with the various boards of guardians throughout the country. There was nothing connected with the poor law which the right hon. geotleman put his hand to that he succeeded in. He moved that the chairman should report progress. Mr. BARROW was anxious that the objects of this bill should be carried out; but he thought it ought to be left to the new Parliament. Mr. BOUYERIE said the bill, which was to make ex-." tra-parochial places contribute to the relief of the poor, had received general approval, and he was anxious to pass it in the present Parliament. Mr. MALINS thought the bill had not received that general support which the right hon. gentleman had inti mated. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY hoped the bill would not be proceeded with in the present session. He objected to the bill because it gave increased power to the most detestable commission that ever existed in this country—the Poor Law Board. Mr. MALINS thought the bill was not of immediate, necessity, and therefore it ought not to be persevered in. Mr. SMYTHE also objected to proceeding with the bill. Lord PALMERSTON said the bill had been specially appointed for that evening, and therefore he trusted the bill would be allowed to pass this stage. After some further conversation the amendment WAS, withdrawn, and the remaining clauses were agreed to and, tho house resumed. The Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Bill, the Customs Duties Bill, the Indemnity Bill, the Copyhold and Inclosure Commissioners, &c. Bill, and th e M un i c i pa l C orpora ti on s Act Amendment Bill, were read a second time. POST HORSE DUTY BILL. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE! QUER this bill was read a first time. The house adjourned at 20 minutes past 10 o'clock.. Country Markets. LIVERPOOL —faxes 10. At to-day's market there was a fair attendance of buys a and rather a better consumptive demand was experienced for wheat, at the rates of Friday, or 2d. to 3d. per 701b5. under the currency of Tuesday last. Flour continues quite neglected, although offered at a decline of is per sack and barrel on the week. Oats and oatmeal met a slow sale, at late rates. Barley, beaus, and peas remained without SDI change in value or demand. In lien corn was inquired for at 335. per qr. for fine mixed, and anything offering at the price was readily disposed of : holders, however, generally insisted on better terms, which checked business. LEEDS, MARCH 10. Our supplies of grain are only moderate. The trade for wheat is still slow, and prices of last week are without any , alteration. Barley as dear, but no activity in sale. Bean* in request, at late rates. Other artioles as.before. Average prices of grain—Wh ea t , 55 s 3d ; bailey, 47s lld ; oa ts, 283 2d. ; beans, 41s 4d ; p eas , .40s ; rye, —s. - - d. • ' HULL— MARCH 10. To-day, with a fair supply of wheat, the market is 10 lower for English wheat, and foreign almost unsaleable. Barley is dearer; other grain without alteration. Linseed dull, but cakes 5s dearer. a 8 i e. —• s. Wheat, English, red 56 to 60 1 Peas, grey and black to -_, I Ditto white 6O t o 63 I Linseed, Black Sea... 68 to 'TIP Dantzie and Konigs- Ditto Petersburgh ... 56 to 67 berg 63 to 70 Ditto Riga and Arch- Pomeranianand Ham- 1 angel burgh I Danish, Holstein, and Memel 5O to N Friesland 54 to 58' Par Too Russian and Odessa 58 to 63Lins.c. Hull 0/ Od to 11E 15-` 01 Oats, English Ditto Danish Ditto Friesland Ditto Russian 27 to 30illape cakes —s Od to 137 s Oa Barley, malting Ditto grinding 32 to 38 1 Ditto foreign Beans Ditto foreign Peas, white and yel. 40 to 421 Flour, per brl. 355.384 ' COURSE OF EXCR • msterdam 11 5 Ditto, three months .. 11 18 yi Rotterdam 11 1834 Antwerp .............. 25 50 Brussels • • • • • • •• •• •• • • 25 50 Elamburgh •••••• • • • • • • 13 8 A.ltona • • • • •• • • •• •• •• • • Ditto, three months .. 25 65 Marseilles 25 673< Bou.rdeaux .. •••••• • • .. F r ankfort-on- sdaine 119 k Berlin •• .• •• •• •• •••• •• Vienna .• •• •• •• •• •• •• •• 10 29 Mesta •• • • •.•• ••• • •• 10 30 Petersburg 374 Waded .........., 49 1 ,4 Cadiz .•• • • • • •• • • • • 50 Barcelona Seville... • • •• ....•• • • -- :ANNE.-•YIBTREDAY. Gibraltar •••••••• Leghorn .. Genoa ........ •• ...... 25 72), Milan " ••••••••••••••• • Naples 43% Palermo ••• • • ***** •• 130 Messina ....... 130 i Lisbor .. 5l Oporto • ••••••• • • • •• •• 69 Rio Janeiro ..... • • —" Buenos Ayres Yew York,6o days' sight Philadelphia TEICE9 or BULLION, Ml OZ. Foreign Gold in Bars .£3 17 9 Portugal Gold Coin .. 0 0 0 Mexican Dollars 0 0 0 New Dollars ...... 0 0 0 Silver in bars ...... 9 5 111 LOCAL SHARE MARKETS. LIVERPOOL, Ilaatou 10. STOCK EXCHANGE. —The market has been doing a fail' business to-day, and prices were rather easier. Blaok' ' burn, 9—Caledonian, 341 Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, 36/ ii—North British, Ili -London and North Western, 1041 ex d.—Eastern Counties, 10/, 13s. 9d.—North E as t ern , B erw i c k , 21i —S outh Eastern, 23i--• --Lancashire and Yorkshire, 101 a - Grand Trunk of Canada, 12/. IPs. 9d.—Great Western of Canada, 264—• Ditto, new shares, 3} p.—Lancaster and Carlisle, third, " shares, new, 81 p. MANCHESTER, MARCH 10. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The market W 3,13 quiet, with rather easier prices. Dover% 23 1-16—Great Western of Canada* 26, 3 / 4 —Sheffields, 36i —Ditto, Pref., 1 2 / 1 -- Leeds, Ml—. Great Northern A, 103. BIRMINGHAM, Miami 10. STOCK EICHANGE. The market was active to.clay t but prices were firmly maintained. South Staffords, London and North Western, 104 -Midlands, 81 82F' heffields, 372—Birmingham Canals, 92t. THE NATIONAL GALLERT.—The total expenditure in• curred in the purchase of the Kruger collection of (6 4 ) early German pictures amounts to 2,8001., and the es• penses of transmission to 1161. 19s. Bd. Seventeen pm tures were placed in the Gallery in October, 1864. Last month a certain portion of the collection was sold at Christie and Manson's, including 37 pictures. The gale realised 2491. Bs. BIRTHS. •P ♦ SON. On the 9th inst., in Kensington-square, the wife of the Rev. Edward Thompson, D.D., vicar of Kington, - lilereford• shire. On the 10th inst., at 8, St. George's-square, Belgrave-read she wife of Samuel Warren Burton, Esq. Or A DAIIGISTIS. On the 10th inst., at Alexander-street, Weetbourno-park i Bayswater, the wife of Edward Williams, Esq. On the 9th inst., Mrs. T. Spencer Howard, of 56, Grove* nor-street, Grosvenor-square. MARRIED. On the 7th inst., at St. Alphags, Greenwich, Frederick, youngest and oily surviving son of Charles lisnttett, Esq., of Copthall-zliambers, city, and Coborn-terrace, Bow, to Louisa Frances Margaret, the youngest dau_ht er of the late Robert Barnes Twelftree, Esq., of St. Paul's -churchyard, London. On the 7th inst., at Bath, Captain S. G. G. Orr, Madras; A rm y, Commandant 3d Regt. of Cavalry Hydrabad Contin• gent, to Alexandra, eldest daughter of Fred. Leighton, BK.* 9, Circus, Bath. D lED. On the 9th inst., at 13, Primrose-terrace, Gravesend, Ma. Kiugham, Esq., aged 66. Ou the 10th i ust•atßichmond, James Cnke, Esq., lat. , ,Solicitor-General for the Colony of Victoria. On the 9th inst., at Readin g , Eli za 'ueth, the wife of Richd. Light, form er l y of Watlin,g-strcet, aged 72. On the Bth inst., at Chelsea, Mr. Nicholas Carter Morrison, aged 75. On the 9th inst., Mary, the wife of Edmund Kerby, of 6 4 , Cheapside, aged 41. On the 4th inst. at Hurston-place, Storriugton, Richard Emery, Esq., aged '63. On the 3d inst., at Nice, of decline, brought on by expo' sure and hardship in the campaign of the Crimea, Major Charles Aldersey Stevenson, 47th Regt., second son of the Rev. C. B. Stevenson, rector of Callan, in the county of km'', aged 26 LONDON : Printed and Pnbliehed by MURDO YOUNG, of No, 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office. Na 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Middlesex, Wednesday, :larch 11, 1857.