The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-22 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. rinpaial Partianunt. HOUSE OF LOBS. MONDAY, Marten 18. Petitions for the better observance of the Sabbath, and for eh, abolition of negro slavery, were presented from various larts of the country by the Earl of hadnor, Lord Stuart de tothsay, the Bishop of Lincoln, Lords Dacre, Foley, Duudas, Dinorben, Western, and Gosford, the Bishops of Lichfield and Coventry and of Bristol, Lords Kenyon arid Suffield, and Earl Grey.---Lord Suffield presented a petition from Liverpool for .a mitigation of the criminal code, particularly so far as it in flicted the penalty of death for offences against property. STATE OF THE COUNTY ON MAYO. Lord TEYN AM said he had on a former occasion moved for rAurns connected with the proclaiming of the barony of Gal in the county of Mayo, in Ireland, with a view to showing their lordships tnat the Irish goveinment was not in the first instance warranted in superseding the ordinary jurisdiction of toe magistracy in that county, and had, besides, not exercised those extraordinary powers in a manner calculated to inspire one with 'confidence at the present moment, when they called upon ,Parliament to arm them with still more extraordinary Alai more unconstitutional powers, ander circumstances which no . man could contemplate without abirm. His lordship, after making some remarks on the state of parties in the county of 2iayo at the election iu 1532, and the conflicts between the police and the people, in consequence of which the barony of Gallen was proclaimed to be in a state of disturbance and in surrection, concluded by moving . that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying him to - direct the Lord- Lieutenant of Ireland to appoint proper and efficient persons t.) inquire into the farts in consequence of which the barony of Gallen was placed under the Peace Preservation Act. 'Ole Marquess of Scnio said that When he came down to the house he did so in the expectation that he should hear some thing to answer. he was, however, agreeably disappointed. tle had, indeed, heard a long and desultory story of armed men g,,iitg about like roaring . lions, (a laugh) but he had actually heard nothing emanating immediately from the noble lord which c hild move him to a reply. There were certainly one or two iioints•in the memorial which would require some. observations from him, and which would oliige him in turn to read some documents, iu order that lie might more completely defend him self frout the base ealumnies -winek had- been levelled against 1)1(11. lie lied been accused of having reconimended the appli cation of the Peace Preservation Act to the barony of Galen. 1.41 reply to that accusation he would say, that the bOth part a/one of that recommendation-fell to his share, for he was only one of the W magistrates by- whose advice that step was taken. After reading several letters referring to the disturbed state of the county of Mayo, the noble marquess concluded by stating that there were not the slightest ground for acceding to the motion of the noble lord. (hear, hear.) Lord PLUNKETT said that it was unnecessary for him to enter into any discussion after the statement made by the noble mar quess, which contained an ample refutation of all the charges made by the noble baron who had introduced the subject. '1.13e Marquess of WESTAIEATII observed that the policemen in leciend were generally natives of the places in which they were employed. Lord TfiliNklA M , said that the noble marquess bad made so satisfactory a statement in his usual candid manner, that he Was convinced that he- (Lord Teyuham) had been misled by the information which had been sent to him, and therefore he begged leave to withdraw his motion. rhe motion was then withdrawn.—Adjourned. • TUESDAY. The Earl of Radnor presented a petition from the parish of St. Ciement panes, fore repeal of the assessed taxes. The Archbishop of Dublin presented several petitions from Dublin for the better observance of the sabbath. Similar petitions were presented from Edinburgh and . other places in Scotland by the Earl of liarrowby. the Marquess* WESTMINSTER presented a petition from the metropolis signed by upwards of 15,00 U persons, inciuding s-nue of the most4espectauie merchants and traders of Lou don, and several elprgyinen of the established church, in fa vour of a removal 0$ the civil disabilities affecting the Jews. • The noble marque4 l / 4 gave the petition his most cordial sup- FOrt, and trusted should, ere long, have the satisfaction of voting for a meal t e which would put an end to all civil distinctions among British subjects. Already had they re moved from their statute book the laws which had so long, so unwisely, and unjustly, deprived their Dissenting . and Catho lic fellow-subjects of their constitutional rights ; it was to be earnestly hoped that the same wise . policy would induce them to admit the Jews to ad the immunities of British subjects pay ing ahegiauce to, and protected by, the British laws. It had been said that the Jewish tenets were incompatible with that unqualified loyalty which was the condition of unqualified eli giboity to the civil advantages of the constitution. The satis tectory refutation of this assertion. was afforded by the conduct the Jews in Holland, in America, in Jamaica, in Canaua, and in Hanover, where they enjoyed a civil equality. The Bishop of LONDON begged the noble marquess to bear in mind that though The - admission of the Protestant Dissenters and Catholics to the privileges of the constitution had destroyed the exclusively Church of England character of the legislature, it had not, as would the admission of the Jews, effectually put an end to its Christian character. Lord SI:WIELD presented a petition from Manchester, also ia favour of a removal of the Jewish disabilities. In support Of the petition the noble lord said that the report of the Sanhe drina or Warsaw, convened by Napoleon when in possession of Poland, put it beyond all doubt that the Jews were bound to yield their most unqualified allegiance to the laws of the coun trx which protected them. Similar petitions were presented from Bath and other places by the Marquess of Lansdown. The noble marquess also pre sented a petition, signed by a great number of the beer retailers of the city of Perth, praying for an alteration of the law respect. ing the retailing of beer. ,Lord SUFFIELD presented a petition from a place in Suffolk, for the abolition of negro slavery. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a similar petition from the Protestant Dissenters of a pace in Northampton. 'The Earl of ItoDEN presented a petition for the better ob servance of the sabbath, from Dundee, and petitions against church reform front a place in the county of Down, anu from a place in the county of Meath. The nobie lord then presented petitions for a change in the national system of education in Ireland, from the Synod of Ulster, and from the Eoyal Society of . I reitaid. EDUCATION.-IRELAND. The Earl of RODEN said that having felt it his duty some few evenings since to give notice of his intention to sui,mit to tue consideration of the house a petition on the subject of the new system of education in Ireland, he heneved that the pre sent was the proper opportunity of doing so. He thought he should be able to prove that the system in question was by no means adapted for a national system of education in Ire:and; that its tendency was exclusive; that in short, its existence was incompatible with the feelings of the different classes of the Irish people. In the first instance he would remind their lord ships, that previously to the establishment of this society ano ther institution was in existence, and that institution compre hended the national system of education for Ireland fromjlB26 n1'183 . 1. He alluded to the Kildare-place Society. That soci ety, was ip the receipt of an annual grout from parliament, and be believed he was not saying ton much when he affirmed, from his own knowledge, as well as from the representations of ,o th e rs, that it worked well, and produced most important benefit to the people of Ireland. It would also he recollected that during the year 1831 His Majesty's government stated it to be their opinion that the Kildare-place Society was too exclu sive in its character, and that it was, therefore, necessary to change it altogether, in order that all distinction mightbe abolish ed, as, tar as related to the education of the people of Ireland. It would, however, be necessary to remind the house that at the period when the Kildare-place Society was abolished, 1,61)0 schools were established under its auspices, containing 137,639 scholars, the majority of whom were Roman Catholics. But the vital defect of this system was, it appeared, that it suffered the indiscriminate use iu the schools of uninitilated Scripture. ( Hear. hear.) Its existence was not, however, disagreeable to the opinions or feelings of the gr e at m a ss of the Roman Catho li:n, of Ireland, because they entered their children in the schools established by it. 13ut its existence was disagreeable. to the Roman Catholic priests, and through their intrigues and agitation it was overthrown and another substituted in its place wore immediately under their control. The new system, he (the Earl otitouen) contended, was one of exclusive education, because it was impossible for the children of Protestants to attend schools the object and intention of which was to educate Roman Catholics alone. (Hear, hear.) It was impossible for l'rotestant children to attend nunneries and monasteries to wards the support of which the public money was appropriated through the medium of the board appointed under the new system. The noble lord then commented on the various items if expenditure mentioned in the return, in order to show either the useless or partial application of the money. In one of the schools which received t;bo annually, the regulation was, that the scholars should assemble at 9, in, the morning for mass, at 12 for spiritual lessons , at half-past 3'for catechism, and at 4 for prayers. In another of the school .which were benefited by tle munificence of the beitild„ a lady, whom he happened to know.'bed seen a book entitled Fifty lieaiong uyuinit _ecomium a Protestant. (A laugh.) This new system was a bantling of Itoinanism; it would not satisfy the new allies of ministers — the Catholic hierarchy. Concession would but whet their ap petite, and they would never be content until . Romanisin was triumphant in Ireland. Ten PIQIOStkIAt bi§llops were to be destroyed, and he was inclined to believe that the Roman Catholic priests would finally be paid out of the plunder thus obtained. The Protestants of Ireland look to . parliament for protection. They had been the English garrison in Ireland from the time of Henry VIII. His cause was theirs, and with them he would stand or fall. He implored the house to put an end to this atrocious system of education, and thus spare the country both the expense and disgrace of supportiu.g it. He trusted that the British parliament would never unite with the Roman Catholic priesthood in depriving the people of the word ' of God. The noble lord concluded by presenting a petition against the new system of education. 'the Archbishop of DUBLIN said that he presented himself to the house under circumstances painful even to a person who was not, like himself, a perfect stranger to their lordships, because he was placed on his trial not only on account of his connexion with that system which the noble earl had called a bantling of Bannanisiu, 'but because he had, as it was alleged, been guilty, as a member of the board, not only of a lavish expenditure of the funds placed at his dis posal, but with something like malversation and bribery. He was invited by ministers to take a part in the education board, and after much consideration and close inquiry he con sented, from a deliberate conviction, that it was for the benefit of his country that he should do so. his anxious attention had been directeu to Ireland, on account of the disturbance and dis tress which had long prevailed in that unhappy island. When, therefore, he was requested to become a member of the boat-a, he was not a stranger to the subject,, for the educatiou of the people was, a question which he had frequently turned over in his mind; anti he thought the plan proposed by ministers was more likely to be serviceable to the country than any other that could be adopted. Attacks upon his personal character he would answer, as he always had, not by words, but by his con duct. (Hear, hear.) A character which could not defend it self was hardly worth defending. It was only . because a man might, without blame, be considered as belonging to a political party that lie had felt it necessary thus briefly to declare that he was not attached to any. There was no plan of education which had been suggested in Ireland to which objections could not be urged. Some persons *objected to educating Protestant and Cathblic children separately, and some to their being edu cated together; but in his opinion the most objectionable thing was not to educate either. The government plan was founded upon, and, indeed, almost copied from, that whiA had long been established in the Mendicitv School. It was only last year that their lordships had decided the new system should be tried there; surely,' unless they'nieant to convict themselves of folly, they would allow it to have a fair trial. They were told that the Kildare-street Society had not had a fair trial, He would not undertake to say that it had ; 'but it had existed for a good many years. In the present case, however, the boys' mo del school—that was, the school in which the teachers were. trained (and this was a most important part of the plan)—was opened' only yesterday, and the girls' model school would not be opened until after Easter. Thus it was evident that so far from the new system having had a fair trial, it had not yet come into operation. To begin to speak of the results of the system at the present day reminded him of a child who sowed flower seeds in a garden, and pulled them 'up every day to See whether they were growing. Their lordships were told that Protestant children did not attend the schools likkt,, it, was right that they should also be informed that this - was in consequence of the system of intimidation aud . persecution which was exercised by those who objected to the new plan. To such an extent was the systein of intimidation carried, that individuals refused to allow their names to be mentionad in that house as the sup porters of the system, because theiitcharacters would suffer mo ral assassination. While persons were murdered in- the south, characters were assassinated in th s e north. A Presbyterian congregation in the north of Ireland had been prevailed upon to desert their pastor because he ventured to approve of the ,c - rovernment plan, and the consequence was, that he had been deprived of the means of subsistence, and had even been in sulted in the streets. The whole country had been told that the Protestants were deprived of-the Bible. The board, cer tainly, did not compel, and he for one never would compel any one to read the sacred volume. The absence of persecution was, in his opinion, the proper spirit of Protestantism, but at all events, it was the proper spirit of Christianity. In addition to this, Protestant clergymen might, on three days in the week, go to the schools and instruct Protestant children in the for mula of the church. if Protestant clergymen thOught they would be polluted by entering the schools to teach the children, they should not complain of their own act, they had no right to avail themselves of their own wrong. If the apostles had been as scrupulous about entering the Jewish synagogues, he doubted whether we should ever have heard of the gospel. It might not be unimportant to mentioq, that the very plan for establishing which the government were so much censured had been acted upon in the schools of the St. Patrick charity for the last fifty years. 'rhe most rev. prelate concluded by repeating, that he not only would be willing to undergo double and treble the mis representation and slanders that had been heaped tlpon him, but to lay down his life, if it were required, to attain the most important of all objects—the moral regeneration of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) The Bishop of EXETER said, he was not one of those who had ever attributed party motives to the most rev. prelate, _and he was sure that the most rev. prelate was altogether above the - influence of such motives, which certainly had not been attributed to him by any persons in this country. The most rev. prelate had told them that they must either adopt this sys tem or leave the Irish with no education at all. Now, was it a fact that the mass of the Irish people were less educated than the mass of the people of this country ? The fact was the other way ; and lie would state that they were more educated than the mass of the people in Englanu, and that, too, upon the high authority of the Archbishop olCashel, who, in giving his evidence before the commissioners of education inquiry in Ireland, declared that he found even in the county of Tip perary the people more generally educated than they were in England. In making that statement the Archbishop of Cashel did not mean to say that they were better educuted than they were in England, but that a greater proportion of them could read and write than there would be tumid amongst a simiair amount of population in England. It was not, therefore, a want in the quantity, but a want in the quality of the education that it was necessary to supply in Ireland, and it therefore behoved those upon whom the superintendence of that education de volved to devise a good system for the instruction of the peo ple of that Country. Toe most rev. prelate had called upon their lordships not to stultify themselves by acting in con tradiction to their vote of last year. He begged to remind the most rev. prelate that the majority last year was in fa vour of, and not against, the motion that was then brought forward. He (the bishop of Exeter) had always said that the system of education which the most rev. prelate now defended was radically wrong, and that no trial would prove that it was worthy of support, for that it was opposed to the prin ciples of truth,.aud to the principles of the Protestant religion. The right rev. prelate here read extracts from the " Catechism of the Council of Trent," and other " standatd" Catholic works, in order to show that " heretics and schismatics were liable to anathema and were not heritors to Christ's' kingdom, save through the plea of invincible ignorance." These doctrines showed that it was actually impossible to fix upon any general system of education which could unite the Protestant and Ca tholic children in one system of mutual love and charity. How was it possible fora Catholic child to look upon a heretic and a schismatic as a Christian brother? The right rev. prelate next read extracts from the - commandments of the Catholic church, in order to show that though the payment of tithes to pastors was strictly enforced by that church, yet that the tatholic clergy now interpreted those commandments in their own favour, making . it out that the tithes so eujoined meant their own remuneration, and not the tithes of the established church. He had no doubt, as a scheme of national education, the government system for Ireland had failed—and ought to fail as it was opposed to the written word of God, and to the spirit of the Protestant church of England. Lord PLUNKETT felt some difficulty in replying to the noble earl (Roden), not ou account of the novelty or the force of the noble earl's arguments, but from their vague and unfounded character. The noble earl was one of those persons who first assumed their own premises wholly independent of fact,—and next drew their own conclusions, wholly regardless of their be ing of logical inference. 1 he worst was, that those illogical conclusions were put forth as facts, under the most plausible pretences of religion. What, after all, was the great crime of ministers? 'Why, the permitting a volume of extracts from the Bible to be read in common in their schools. But it shouid be recollected that the highest authorities of the Protestant church had approved of tho extracts; that they contained nothing con troversive and were eminently moral and charitable in their tendency, and that they left the Protestants free to peruse the inure volume when and as they pleased. (Hear.) Then, it should also be recollected that the Kildare-street Society, of which the noble earl was just now the zealous advocate; also permitted " extracts" to be read in their schools, and that, too, from the Douay version (hear, hear.) and that the only differ ence was, that while our extracts were read under the controul of both Catholic and Protestant masters, it depended wholly on the masters in the Society's schools. lear.) In the name, then, of their common country, and the charity of their cow_ mon faith, he implored noble lords to forget their mere poli tical predilections in the cause of education,—that is, of the only means of rearing up a moral and religious wad. truly Chris tian generation in Ireland. The cause was too sacred to be viewed tluough the mists of party or sectarian distinction (Hear, hear,) and the state of Ireland, too, loudly called out for so unexceptionable a cure for avoidable delay to be sanc tioned. It was any thing but just, it was any thing but feel ing, in the present state of that unfortunate country, to de nounce the exertions of those who were endeavouring to bene fit her. What right had the noble lord to say that they did not endeavour to protect the interests of the Protestants ? and wlvo right had he to put himself forward as the sole advocate of their . rights ? He (Lord Plunkett) did not know that the noble lord's pretensions were superior to his, or that the noble lord had done the Protestant church in Ireland greater service tha. he (Lord Plunkett) had done. Such aspersions were the off spring of rank and bitter jealousy. He could assure the noble lord, that in supporting the new system of education, he did so in the conviction that he was supporting the interests of the Protestant church; and he would remind him at the same time, that one way of causing detriment to those interests was by ob stinately and pertinaciously attempting to substitute in its stead a system at direct variance with the sanction of the legislature. (hear, hear.) The Earl of WICKLOW could not help thinking, that the no ble and learned lord had directed his speech, not against the statement made by his noble friend who had introduced the dis cussion, but against speeches which had been delivered in the house on former occasions when the subject of education in Ire land had been under discussion. The noble and learned lord bad made no statement to the house on the present occasion as to the numbers who were in course of education under the new system; but when the system had been only two months in ex istence, he had come down to the house furnished with a vast accumulation of statements to show the progress which had been made under it. If it were determined to apply a grant of mo ney for the education of only one class in "Ireland, then, he should say, let it be applied to the Catholics, who, being the poorer and more numerous class, has not the same opportunity of prosecuting their education. He should say, that if govern ment refused to institute the most rigid inquiry into the subject, they were obtaining the money granted by Parliament under false pretences. The Earl of GOSFORD denied that there was anything in the institution of the schools established under the new system which should preclude the attendance of Protestants, and con . tended, that where the system had been fairly tried it had suc ceededlo the fullest extent. Lord CLONCURRY agreed with the noble earl, (Wicklow,) that there should be a liberal grant for the education of the Ro man Catholics of Ireland; but he begged to remind him, that the new system was founded on the principles originally pro fessed by those who advocated the Kildare-place Society. The Marquess of LANSDOWN thought the most rev. prelate who had addressed the house had paid the Protestant church but a poor compliment when he invoked the danger of Protest ant children coming into contact with their Catholic brethren, as if the mere contact for four days in the week were to be suf ficient to shake the religious principles in which they had been educated. He should be sorry to admit that the scheme of common education was impracticable; an admission of that nature would be incompatible with the principles of conciliation and political expediency which ought to be acted on towards Ireland. He would not, therefore, consent to abandon the sys tem without giving it a full and ample trial, for he thought the inhabitants of Ireland ought not to be separated by a stronger line of demarcation than existed at present. The Earl of RODEN, in reply, stated that his great ground of objection to the system was, that it had a direct tendency to en courage Roman Catholicism. He was a friend to toleration, but there was a vast difference between toleration and encou ragement. He was sorry, therefore, to hear that the schools under that system were increasing. The petition was then received, and the house adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, MARCH 18. Shortly after 12 o'clock this'day the Speaker took the chair. Sir G. SKIPWITH brought up the report of the committee on the London and Birmingham railway.—Ordered to lie on the table. VIOLATION OF THE SABBATH Petitions, praying►- for some enactment for the better observ ance of the Sabbath, were presented by Mr. Byng from St. James's, Westminster, St. Michael's, Highgate, Gibraltar Chapel, Bethnal-green, the inhabitants of Heating, and from the rector, churchwardens, and inhabitants of St. Marv's, Hornsey; Mr. E. Buller, from. three parishes in Staffordshire; Sir W.Woulkes, from Wells, Leighton, and Watton, in the county'of Norfolk; Mr. Strutt, from two parishes in the town of Derby; Mr. Hodgson from the Sunday-school teachers of Newcastle-on-Tyne and from the township of Westcote, North umberland; anu by Mr. Johnstone, from the Plesbyteries of Stirling, Dumfermline, Kirkaldy, Haddington, and seven parishes in Elginshire, the Scottish churches in Crown-court and Regent-square, Edinburgh, and the journeymen shoe makers of Edinburgh. NEGRO SLAVERY. Petitions, praying for the abolition of negro slavery, were presented by Mr. Byng from a town in Perthshire; Sir W. Foulkes, from the inhabitants of Wells, Norfolk; Mr. B. Carter, from the inhabitants of Portsmouth; and -by Mr. Mar shall, from the clergy, bankers, and inhabitants of Leeds, signed by 18,800 persons. SOAP DUTIES. The following petitions, praying for the reduction of the duties on soap, were presented by Mr. Strutt, from the manu facturers and dealers in soap in the town of Derby ; Mt. Alder. man Wood, from the dealers and manufacturers of soap in the vicinity of London • and by Mr. B. Carter, from the soap makers of Portsmouth. IRISH COERCIVE BILL. Petitions against this measure were presented by Mr. F. O'Conner, from two parishes in Scotland, the parishes of blyross and Castledavy, in the county of Cork, and from several other places in Ireland, some of which also prayed for the abo lition of tithes; Colonel Buller, from several places in Kil kenny-; and by Mr. Sullivan, from several places in Ireland. DISII3ILITIES.OF THE JEWS. Mr. M. PHILIPS presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the borough of Manchester, praying the release of the Rev. Robert Taylor; also a petition from the borough of Manchester, praying the abolition of the monopoly enjoyed by the King's printers, and particularly as regarded the printing of the Bible. The hon. member also presented a petition most numerously and respectably signed, and agreed to at a public meeting con vened by the boroughreeve and constables of Manchester, in favour of the Ten Hours' Factory Bill. Although he did not coincide in the propriety of limiting, by any legislative enact ment, the labour in factories to ten hours, yet . he was open to conviction as to its propriety, and should give the subject, when it came before the house, his calm and serious considera tion. The hon. gentleman then presented a petition from the British born Jews of Manchester and its vicinity, praying for the removal of the restrictions under which they labour; and a petition to the same effect from the inhabitants generally of the town of Manchester. In the prayer of these petitions he most heartily concurred. Mr. JOHNSTONE presented a petition from the inhabitants and freeholders of Portsmouth and Portsea, praying the house not to pass any measures by which the power of legislating over a Christian country should be conferred upon the enemies of the Christian faith. The petitioners, however, stated their wil lingness to agree to the removal of any other disabilities under which the Jews labour. The hon. member expressed his entire concurrence in the sentiments contained in this petition. Mr. Alderman \\Toon presented a petition from certain inha bitants of the city of London, complaining of the number and state of the hackney-carriages plying. in the metropolis, and praying the adoption of some legislative remedy for the into lerable grievance at present existing; and a petition from cer tain inhabitants of the borough of Southwark, against the Irish coercive bill. In presenting the last petition, he begged to say, that on a former occasion, when he had delivered his sentiments on the subject to which that petition referred, and had called on Irish landlords to follow the example of a public company of London, he had been misunderstood as having alluded to the Merchant Tailors' Company. He had no intention to allude to that company, which had no land in Ireland in its own.pos session, but he meant to refer to the Fishmongers' Company, which held lands in Ireland, in the improvement of which they had in ten years expended upwards of £70,000, and the people upon these lauds were happy and comfortable, complaining of nothing but the tithe system. Mr. FINN concurred with what had fallen just now from the hon. member fur the city of London with reference to the Fish monger's Company, which out of £84,000 received had ex pended £70,000 in the improvement of the lands. He was well aware that the Fishmongers' Company were blessed by the people who lived .under them. He begged leave to contrast their benevolence with the conduct of a nobleman to whom one of the petitions just presented referred, who received £20,000 a year from Ireland, and the same amount from England; yet, while he spent a fourth of his income in this country, did not spend more than £2OO per annum in Ireland. .Was it, then, to be wondered at that there should be discontent in Ireland, from which £5,000,(E0 was annually drawn away by absentees? Mr. MAti-snA• L presented a petition from the inhabitants of Leeds against the Irish coercion bill; alsaa petition from the merchants and manufacturers of Leeds, praying law restricting the trade with the Brazils. Mr. J. FIELDUN presented petitions from Failsworth, Lancashire, praying for a repeal of malt, hops, and soap, and fur the abolition of assessed taxes; also a petition from a parish in the abolition of slavery, and in favour of the Ten tory Bill. The hon. member, in a low tone of vr petitions at length, and as soon as he had conch' Mr. Copal= rose, and said that it was rig reading the petitions of the people to empty IA tkerefev 149 , 0 that the house be counted: •,. Several metiThers interfered with Mr. Cobbett to baiktigp, amtat y leygtt, * strapgers were ordered Ve understood during our absen - C& Mr. "t!) r htisss:o the gallery we fouifd Mr. J. 'LDEN•g . , aing ajetition from the of a parish itriltfttingh , praying for a reductioi on corn, and the abolition of all taxes on the net The petition was ordered to lie on the table, any left the chair at 3 o'clock. The SPEAKER resumed the chair at 5 o'clock. HERTFORD ELECTION. Mr. BERN AL, the chairman of the Hertford mittee, stated that he had given notice of his jut ing that the special report of the Hertford coinr that a message might be sent to the House of their lordships' leave for the attendance of th Salisbury, and the production of certain of his perty in the borough, be taken into consideration tie had now to inform the house that the further of this subject was rendered unnecessary, in cc letter addressed to him that day by the Marquess and which he would take the liberty of reading to The letter was dated " The House of Lords," ar following purport. " Sir,—Understanding that it convenience of the committee to see the agref into with some of my cottage tenants, and as . may arise in the way of obtaining them by motion of Commons, I beg to inclose one, which I have the information of the committee. They are all form, and I shall have no objection to submit to tiou those specified in the votes of the House of But some delay will necessarily occur before this as they are at present in the country." Mr. 13( was sure that the house, atter hearing the letter, opinion that it was unnecessary for him to procet motion; and he should therefore propose that it be Motion accordingly withdrawn. GARRISONS. Lord EBRINGTON wished to know whether the gentleman, the Secretary at War, could inform I' period he contemplated laying before the house tb' which he (Lord Ebrington) had moved for respec sons at home and abroad? ----- ir,l:l l ;;lstio.sE;aiii he had written letters to manders of the different garrisons, requesting them the desired information, and the returns could not, be made up until the answers to those letters weft This, he feared, would be some time yet. lie took tunity of stating to the hon. member for Middle: would be out of his power to present the returns mat that hon. member relative to the profits of colonels of j until nearly the end of the session, because a great ,1 those officers were residing at great distances abroad Lord EBRINGTON trusted that the returns relative risons at home would be shortly laid on the table, a tice that he would move, on the army estimates bei under the consideration of the house, that a select be appointed to inquire into the salaries of the goy° deputy-governors of garrisons at home and abroad, 4 to ascertain whether any reduction might be madt without detriment to the public service. REVISING BARRISTERS. On the report of the vote of £30,500 to pay the the revising barristers being brought up, Lord G. SOMERSET asked how it was that two who had travelled over the same ground, and bee° the same number of days, appeared, in several i have made very different charges. Lord ALTHORP said, that in the instances alluded noble lord there were certain expenses common to i Heinen, which had only been charged by one of theroii Mr. CORBETT did not object to the charges; he hal they were very fair, for every thing that lawyers but .he objected to making those who had to vote work of those barristers. Vast numbers of the pe l , thought unworthy to have the right of voting, but not considered unworthy of being taxed. After a few words from Mr. Hume and Mr. O'CO report was received. IRISH DISTURBANCES BILL. On the question being put, that the house resolve committee on this bill, Mr. COBBETT rose and said that he should consi' l the basest of men if he did not object to proceediej despotic measure. They had heard of the deeds of r dingtou, of Perceval, and of Castlereagh, but h e fo . bill - before the house an infamous pre-eminence over deeds. The hon. member then proceeded to argue at' ole length that the measure was utterly repugnant 1 1 ciples of the British constitution as laid down by 1 ' Blackstone, and after instituting a comparison betwe' and the measures of the British government with re the North American colonies, declared that the pea much right to resist the former as the Americans ha the latter. If this bill were more tyrannical than any which had been framed at the reformation by the ape: plunderers of the reign of Henry VIII., the worthy I` of the noble lords and - hon. gentlemen opposite,—if it than any measure which had emanated from that tvr! ll.—if it were more abominable than anything wiil` HI. had ever directed against America, what nght bs meat to expect that the people of England would l e selves to the infliction of it upon the people of Rol' said boldly that an Englishman was base and woe, country who would not step as far for the liberties of , he would for those of England itself. 1 his bill, if pas , land, would he sure to return here at last. Ministe, other means of conducting their government in Engt, the present system but that. He had very frequee this measure tyrannical, and those who - aimed at e into effect tyrants. It was therefore necessary to coo a tyrant was ; for all nature and all usage said, that right to resist and to destroy a tyrant. If he were a had as much right to destroy him as Moses had to a' taskmaster of Egypt, or as Jehu had to cast Jezahel ' window, and to give her blood up to the dogs to lick , oh!") All that a tyrant wanted was, to take from r: the fruits of their lab Our, their money, or their goods/ tyrant may take from you without resistance your r money, or the fruits of your labour, he will let you lip not destroy you. Therefore, know ye, what tyrants what tyranny is, and when you know it, remember right of resistance exists, and that he who exerts it n' slave." " Ay," but say some, "you cannot resist." answer that point, and would then conclude. (Imme " Hear.") "If you feel," said he, "such satisfaction nouncing that I am near a conclusion, I'll tlit.appoio,! will not conclude this time." (" Oh! oh !") " some, "you have got such an army that we cannot government." Yes, but the government has got apa too, and that is its weak point. Let them be compal, money in gold, and then so long as they are compel' in gold the people are more than a match for them. rb. banks alone are more than a match for them. I knoi can pass another Bank Restriction Act. 1 know tha' member for South Devon recommended them to p", measure. But what then? The merchants of L' say that they won't deal with the country people so le demand gold; let thes country people have patience , their goods at home, and then see whether the m e Cork have not as much need of them as they have of chants of Cork. The filthy rags will lose their power, they have lost their power, where is the pay for those to serve out bayonets and bullets to the- people ? , member then proceeded to say that he did not intena his Majesty's present ministers of a wish to be tyra!J , were not so from nature ; but they would become so f. sity. (" Question, question.") Who called ` quests thought that he was making a pretty long questio°' not want to excite personal feelings against the but he would not coax or flatter the servants of the cr would stimulate them to do their duty by represC o would, in his opinion, be the consequences of this se sure to Ireland. He hoped the people of England forget or be inactive spectators of what was about to the people of Ireland. Mr. Arrwooo gave notice that on the first opportol should present itself he would move that all further p this bill be suspended until the remedied measures byministers should be carried into effect; for he he] it this measure should be passed the remedial meas° be delayed, or probably not be carried through at all:, gave notice that he would move in the committee a clad fine the operation of the bill to thOse counties of Leiusl e outrages were said to he committed. He would not b nocent punished for the guilty, and therefore he tb counties of Ireland which were tranquil should be act. He was an enemy to the repeal of the u he Would take away from the inhabitants of ti one argument which they might use in ar - if th ey were thus to be coufounded with ti earn4ti .d On, that th e S pea k er do leave the chair, e, and the house went into 4 13 ::id.recgalacidrOimint a si w l aa T ns T yh E i E csoi O un Di ntet T y lE s i e ßl: lcs.t. (the chairman) having read the font which empowers the Lord-Lieutenant to the application of this law, and such cow iceraed a proclaimed district, 0r t ' t o Lt o Lb move so a diet ai . b ° any other part of the bill to which it mi e tuade, to the effect that the bill should m ' which related to the collection of tithes in mow. said that the amendment suggest( • would not be necessary, as ministers had] • •to ntroduce a m easure b y w hic h it would n ;f:e i sort to the act passed in the last session fo 'le arrears of tithes. 'KNELL asked why not, then suspend the fui t hose tithes? They - ' l le • at!orning another melancholy proof of the attentpting to collect tithes by an armed i It, Tnotte said it would be premature to sus of the arrears, until they knew whether Pa lect. the measures which they h a d i n co nte; •Ntkiy said it would be impossible that goy a decided answer to the hon. and learned gen at present. He did n o t un d ers t a nd what , gentleman meant by a levy by the police. ?erotical, going on, in which the assistant ,sometimes re9uired with respect to tithes. I dueetion was given to the clergy in thes to them; and the other, where it IN to collected the arrears for the public on w .1 ( 1 made an advance of money. Now, as tc ask the hon. and learned member for 1 ' tl Y one instance in which any party h %just for arrears of tithe who was not wet who refused only through a spirit of resist on account of tithe. lie was sure he co tild learned gentleman would say that any against for tithe who were too poor to 'lm that his information, come from where i ' r rect. As to the cases of individual clergy me - 98 to collect their tithe, he could not say ; ~ t i l atd of any instances of severity. As to thi ii ,.. police refusing to give vouchers when they ' e ast not heard of any such thing till now, and enoto believe it correct. xi w N its i lbi' i !..L was inclined to believe that the rat tr a to e th rs nnself mistaken in supposing that nc was made from poor persons. He had . N• e _e number of 7,0 W having been issued for icittears of tithes. iis ember (name not known) expressed a h :,,I. lll ght be iutrodueed to impress on the pee meet of Lanny w. this bill was not the collection o lot „., . as the general impression amongst the It a. , ,Y it was correct, but it would be right so t L i Zget rid of it. 1. 1 1 ' 11 , 1 ' had heard nothing to induce him to ; h at t o should therefore, in discharge of what h( d t hat 9 1 e people of Ireland, urge the amendm( o th e W'th such a clause few persons in lrelan; . IL bill. e i l'Athor (of Athlone)hoped that some sue jonlitrodueed. He would not have voted for 1 Del(.ll;catlings if he had not thought that sop il s , t . ° ace been introduced. dd ii",adthitted that that never was the object of th e r e said that the clergy were to be paced of d. 4W ? That, however, must be the ease if t t r lg d ainst the clergy in the collection of tith( v r e ' by the courts to be established under the o -11 ° 11 1' said that any aid in the collection t Part or object of the bill, which was for the et 0 . but undoubtedly if outrage Is /vet b eneraity, . ea a e committed against the celleetion of tithe i ll, Istrict, they would be cognizable by the co; e tiot as tithe cases, but as outrages. Ii e I I ' IN IELL said it was clear enough that th; th e W as., to be given under the bill was to be ap it s i;,. l Vhen once the power was given, how cut • tithe so used, unless some such clause as ti tp ii „` ' l ° ll . member opposite were introduced ? I t - wished that the real object of the bill sh e pi' fi w,,as undoubtedly understood by the people i rt tt - t uJect was to aid in the collection of tithe. t ' ,,;; ; ,, s a,id it was not suggested that the objec ,were la the collection of tithe. It was not s , , r e to be sent out one day, and that the n 'al were to try those who offered any opp tlnet aid. He would go further, and admit t : ! , 11( ted; but, then, took at the bill, and it w; ~ ,went further than they intended. The I v et r ai acts, and declared that all offeices agaii -( :, t8 _thoUld be cognizable by courts-martial. ' 94 1 the act embody the 27th of George I •'^ section of that act apply to the collection of Iv al it not, then, follow, that the power to be gra: : 8 ,2 he ' applied in ca , ses of the collection of til •' 'en could the noble lord deny that it was Jett? ' ~r .-• tY said the clause referred to by the hon its.leh persons as shall by force ' or threat, o: —a ils." (Hear, hear," from Mr. Sheil.) He raetaber, having bad his turn, would allow ; ~The act to which reference had been ma ' l `,fle purpose of putting down the Whiteboy sy padordinarily known by the name of the bt e ' l was intimately connected with what was ci e r Y " the WhiteuoS , Coue." Ministers did !It measure mean to interfere with tithes; a gs, to give 'to the clergy the same protection, 0 W as extended to other classes of the coinmun their property the same protection which WiL Clecies. of proper. property. great object of the 1. t Protection of (Hear, hear.) oNNELL observed that the act which had b; ' an d whi c h appeat • •edto be followed in the hi he , i 4 f t.se, Looked to tithe property almost exelusil 1 Or tithes far more than it legislated for bo to.pertv ' •• •This la easuiv, he repeated, was emplu kt hex, TH ORP denied that the interpretation of the I 1 4. with reference to the 27th of Geo. 111. was i t member would lead the particular clause, be th ag dircted ainst "an unlaful conabint , e w collectie against on of tithes, or an y y forcible obsttuc te en, or any violence used towards knit in col lets ation of some length ensued, in which Mr. I h' Keane, Mr. H. (rattan, Dr. baidwid, and 4.' roetnbers took part. Ert.r complaine d that a writer in an Irish i i r nad called upon the people of the county 0. i e ak their just. vengeance on his hon. coilLig. : 11 , for the vote which he had given upon the b ;",onse. (Hear.) For hirnseit, be was quite re ii t . oe obloquy to which he was exposed by appea 47 any part of the, measure. lie wished the bill ti e° connect its Operation solely with the supprei t h the horrible system of witatiou now prevalent ' l nd received letters from Ireland admitting tha „was unavoidable, but cAlling for modifications bello t',( l above all, beseeching that it might not " to be a . prop of the tithe system. (Hear. 4,(hi to the clause, a, proviso to this effect, " . Ll,he it hereby enacted, that it shall not be lay 0 Lieutenant or other 'chief governor or govel Ply the powers conferred by this act in any 4. f, °l.* district merel because tithes shad not I ' ll 4 or district ; and be it further enacted, t. of I f this act shall not be . applied iu any way e vYing tithes, or enforcing rho payment then „krilltCliTON supp'orted the ,proviso, and observi ".ornise of the neble lord (Aithorp) on a former 6, L t that this act was not to be applied to the 1 ,spent of tithes, he (Mr. Warburton) could nc . d °l3 .leetion could by any possibility be offered iti, ° l' his colleagues to the, present motion. (.] had the noble lord as being bound in honour hi:, said on a former evening, to put some lim 1 reernent of the powers of the law as enjoi c l ause. of this bill, which directly. referred to ti litiAal). 15. If the noble lord refused to sisal oi l I T ) , for one, sho u ld consider it a s a direct bn A t , e pa r t o f t h e no b le lord. !4,,, t i110RP said that to the whole of the first part NI , of the h on. mem b er for the county of Wexl th e lei tain the s li g ht es t o bj ec ti on; b e a ll u d e d i 'L ) Proviiso which enacted that it should not be 1 1 i, 5 . : Lieutenant of Ireland to apply the powers ay ke et to any county or district merely in conve. at tot tithes. With respect to the other alr's amendment, the aoubt he felt was at I:: 114 02 e act. I ;re he woo j u g reliOnties cdit easure if t a Todi hear.) al of tb e ll ue3 tion, of tithe: 4 carried, in La 11 ;43 e Ten l ' I,•, ll weit, of vo ice, utu, whic ['elude d, . 44°11 di s riche re the a beat d eemed' F astatirr ' - or tr. ett 0 au • be I to. Mac Cone e t which , ALTIIO] und : I :" Wool the fra 9 ' *)o to jai IctiOn to to resort ,3 1:eCe ‘833 , ' % f f , th : s a t i and 6 , k,,,.. , oe th ose that IL°l3 ck. eea i A a att, .:ALTtiot ord eler , a the s inten t ''' . " cl , Pt thi oinuaittl, l ' u Ject, f Lords, . 14 :si L E y If the 3 ' j e a dee his le , I°4 at 0 iled . ation t „ gem rther c 0 - ° Pecati a consei 48 sorrel loess 01 7,.ssary ing W k tithes , s," an d ~,4 , 0 col that it had ni greeLne ll "'ta t! ast eti yas s on' t 'lt 41 ( Alan ill a , agii n have 0 '''l Ith o .e all Of meet un mit to % 0. 4 . and se of C e `i e e de d i this c 3 : him 1.1 r. Bern 'urreet. .otter, as ures nrocee'A, eard ,