The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-23 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. THURSDAY, MAY 22. The Bishop of KILLALA took the Oaths and his Seat. 'The Irish 'Spirits till was r ea d a second tune and cOnimitted for to-morrow, The - Irish Debenture Bill passed through-a_Cosn mittee and was reported~ • The Committee on Sir John Gordon's Divorce Bill was postpaned till this day three weeks. The Loip CHANCELLOR'stated,, that the cause of Graham of GartrnOre against Isabella, Countess of Glencairn,.. stood appointed for hearing; and that, as the Respondent was' his sister, he desired their LOrdships' permission'" to absent himself from the I House during the discussion. • • 1 • - His Lordship then withdrew, and Lord ELLEN-- )30110P.Gii called in . the - Counsel, and beard Mr.. Alexander for the Appellant. The further consideration was then postponed till to-morrow. The LARD CHANCELLpit having resulted . the Woolsack, the Irish Butter Bill was read a second. time, and committed for to-morrow The Franking Bill passed through a Committee, and was reported. ADDITIONAL FORCE REPEAL BILL. On the third - reading of this Bill, Lora 4LI?ON apologized for troubling ti -, eir-Lord , ships, but having been a Member of the two iiiinistrations iu which the. Bills were passed which were now proposed to be repealed,,,fielhought_it hiS duty, to stateshortlyhis ,reasons for voting on the former night against this measure. The Additional Force Bill, he observed; had been, resbrted to in con sequence of the enormous•price which at length came to be given for substitutes under the Army of Re- serve Act, and compared with the latter Ad, with resped to penalties, it was lenity itself. He could not; however, conceive the reason why' the penalties under the Additional Force Adwere to. be given up, and the Money already paid into the Exchequer to be returned, whilst, at the, same time, the fines -remaining under the Army of Reserve A& were to be enforced, which latter Ad . was also re pealed by: the present Bill, although scarcely a word had been said about it. He would not ad vert to measures which were not before the House, or to planS which had not been mentioned in that House, but- if the Amy-was to be left for its supply to ordinary recruiting, such a rneastire was diredly in the teeth of the experience. of, several years 'past, and, he was convinced, would be insuf ficient for the intended purpose. He could not help also reMarking, that' notwithstanding the charges .against the Administration .of which he was a -lember, of weakness and inefficiency, yet those who had succeeded theM had proposed , the repeal of a measure for recruiting the Army without .being prepared to bring forward any substitute in its place. ~:774e Earl of ROSSLYN thought the Noble and .Learned Lord had misconceived the prpviSion in the Bill 'relative to the fines under the Army of Reserve Act, which, in his opinion, only applied,to the fines irriToos , l ,"pon t4O Pc!rl.hos fur tli. uon-appoaranina rse , men After they had been ballotted , and not to an y other description of pepalties. 'Lord. ELDOIV was still-of opinion that the pro vision applied to penalties' imposed, on the Parishes for not providing the men, Earl- SPENCER expressed his surprise that' the • Noble and Learned Lord should make an objedion to a partictilateciause in the Bill on the third reading, utter sutferlng it_ to pass through the Committee s . silentio'. • With respe& to nothing being said about the At-m', of Reserve Alt; it was an omission of his own on the former night ; but he ,could not con eei ;e it possible that any man in the kingdom, much less any Noble,Lord in that House, 'could entertain an opinion that the Army of Reserve Ad• ought now to be enforced, When that Ad came up to the House, he was one of_ those that opposed it, think ing that it was pregnant with dangerous conse queie es ; He WaS willing to admit, however, that it subsequently proved 'efficacious, although extreme ly oppressive. That Aiit was, however -eoinpletely ' funsliu officio, and it was in order to prevent its be ' ing in foi . ce a!ter the Repeal of the Additional Force Act that words were introduced to Repeal it ; and that it ought to be repealed was,.he thought, a point perfedly and clearly established, as to be 'carried,. into efred pow iz must be _nugatory and oppressive. To give up the pen,lilies and refund the money al ready received on account of them, he considered barely au act of justice, as it would be gross injus tice to levy penalties for not doing that which it was - impossible to do. He repeated that the most de sirable objeCt , was to remove the -impediment which • the Additional For A.Ct threw in the way of the tecruiting Service. 7 - 1? e Earl of , HARDIFICKE obje&ed'to that part of the Bill •which went to give up the penalties un- Fier the Additional Force Act, as it might, at a fu ture period, he deemed necessary by Parliament to enact some compulsory measure for the purPose of recruiting the Army,- and then this provision would ,operate to encourage persons in negleding to carry such an Ad into execution, and to prevent any zeal or exertion from being displayed. He voted against the repeal of the Additional Force Ad, finding that, as, a necessary consequence of it, a 'Bill was now in the House of Commons to. repeal the Additional Vorce Act for- Ireland. With respect to - this latter Bill, lie suggested that the Parishes in Ireland were Potcharged as they were in Englapd, with the main tenance of the families of Militiamen, whilst on ser vice, that 'being done at the charge of the Public Re , venue, and therefore that the penalties, instead- of being given up, aught to be appropriated to the Revenue. Lord HOLLAND thotight the Noble Earl had given a curious reason for voting against the Repeal of the English Additional Force Ad.. With respell tci tte penalties, he contended that those who had contrived to raise {Tien under the Ad had done it by evading its provisions. Such conduct might be loyal, as was said on a former night, but it was con trary to the provisions of theAsai and it was therefore highly unjust that those who had endeavoured fo raise info by complying with the provisions of the AC}, 'and had, iroin necessity, failed, should be, on that account, Subjeded to the 'pepalties. Thy Earl of 14.4ipwicliz explained. Barl SPENCER exprps;ed a willingness to pay every attention to ithe suggpstion of the, Noble - Earl (Hard-, wicke)whenthe Bill to which he alluded carne be fore the House. The Bill was read a third time,,and passed, and message ordered •to be sent to the House of Corn , 'mons, to acquaint them therewith,Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). . HOUSE OF COMMONS. f THURSDAY, i‘l'AT 22. Lora JOIIN TOWNSEND presented, by command of his Mai6sey, an Account of the Extraordinary Ser vices, frdm the 25th of December, 1805, with a Du pliCate thereof:—Ordered to lie on the - Table. Mr-Alderman •COMBE brought up -a Bill for re pealing the Flaying A&. Read a first, .and ordered to be read a second time. The'lrish Revenue Colle&ion Bill passed through a Committee, and. the. Report was ordered .to be re- ceiVed to-morrow. On the Motion of Mr. FOSTER, it was ordered, that the' House should to-morrow resolve itself into a Committee, to consider of the Irish Mail Coach Aft, of the 45th'of the King. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of a Bill to amend the Irish Malt Duty Aa Of the last Session. The Bill, with the Amendments, was ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time to-morrow. Mr. ALEXANDER. also brought up the Iteport of the Committee on the Irish Stamp Duty Bin, which wasagreed,to ; -and the Resolutions of the Cominit teeof Supply on the Arni . l.Estimates, which .were read a second time, .and agreed to. On the Motion' of Mr. V,NsxTTART, the third reading of the Property Duty Bill was, deferred until to-morrow. . Mr. Meux,.from the India Board, presented vari ous Papers respeEting the Claims of Individuals on the .Nabob of Oude ; which were ordered to be printed. Mr. FOSTER moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of. the Bill respeaing the Drawback 'on Foreign Linens. After a . .fe.W.l.vords from Lord TEMPLE and Mr. Coitty,Yeltive to. the extreme importance of the Bill, inasmuch as it not only -affeded the Irish, .but the English and Scotch ManufaCtures also; Mr. FOSTER consented not to press the second reading until Wednesday next, for which day, it was accord ingly ordered. Lord TEMPLE moved, -" that there be laid before . the House, an Account of Irish Linens, not exceed ing 3 0.1 inches in breadth, exported from the etst of January, 1798, to the 31st of December, 1805, inclusive."—Ordered.: , • • , • The Irish Defence Bill was read a third time, and. ordered to be committed to-morrow. A Message from .the Lords informed the House, that their Lordships, had agreed -to the Additional Force Repeal Bill, without any athendments, and to several Private Bills: - The SECRE T ARY at WAR 'brought up the Mutiny Bill; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read zi second time. on Wednesday next.' M. ROSE gave .notice, that he would ta-mor row move for certain Accounts %vliich he thought necessary'to, be produced, •in consequence of what thi. Noble Lord (H; Pettvl had last - night said rela tive to the Public Accounts, and the state in Which they remained uninquired into, and,unsettled ; and .by the production of those Accounts he hoped he should be able totrace out who were defaulters, and who were not; and•he hoped that such as were proved to be so, be their rank and•consequence what it may, on them " the great axe would fall 5". and that they would bp treated 'with. every severity their conduct shouldmerit. He promised to send the Noble Lord Copies of the Motions heshould make, and the Pa pers contained in .each ; and if the Noble. Lord could make any addition to' them, so as to render • them more complete and efficient, he should be • very much obliged to. him,. and would_ readily in ,. sert them for that purpose, his wish being to ob tain the most complete discovery that was possible. Sir J. NEWPORT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to enable His Majesty to accept the services of the,Militia of Ireland, under certain restrictions.--- Granted. • 'The Report on the Eledion Treating Bill was brought up and agreed to, and the Bill. ordered to be read a third 'time on Monday se'nnight. ctisTo'si DUTY BILL.* Sit-Jo FIN NEWPORT moved the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on this Bill. The House having resolved itself accordingly, on the Resolution being read, that there be granted a duty of 285. a ton on iron ; • Mr. FOSTER 'said, he had not supposed the Right Hon. Baronet meant seriously to persist in the proposed duty on Iron, after a . similar tax had. been rejected in England, on account of, its.impoli 7 tic pressure upon all the manutitdures of the Coun try, and its consequent extension to the poorer classes Ofthe . community. If this was found•to be a i weighty consideration', in England, how much more ought it to operate; when the comparative po verty of Ireland was contemplated. This proposed duty would cause an increase of twenty per cent. in the price of ,irOn, and prove almost ruinous to the infant manufaduressof that Country, as no counter vailing duty was allowed on their introdudion into England. A drawback was provided, in the case of the small duty or3.s. per cwt. on sugar, and yet to countervail the much more material tax upon iron, no increase of drawback was allowed:. The measure, if carried in its present shape, would. de feat itself, as not a Shilling 'of revenue would be derived from it ; as it was only calculated to pro duce 15,0001. he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would adopt some of the Maq : preferable means that presented , themselves of raising that sum, and prevent the dissatisfaelion that would. ensue in Ire land, if, whilst in this ample and opulent country, the tax upon iron_ was : abandoned as oppressive, it should be inflicted there. Mr. ROSE thought it was impossible the Right Hon. Baronet Could press the Tax, as even in case of providing a sufficient countervailing duty, if the ma nufaCtures oflreland were like those of England, the mixture. of' foreign with native iron; would prevent its being embraced. He was sure the Tax would produce 'nothing ; add he was also of opinion, that in estimating the duty on sugar, the Right Hon ; -oentleman had calculated. upon a greater, average price (sos. per cwt.) than it would be found to bear; it was altogether .3 new and extraordinary measure to make a provision of temporary War Taxes to pay .a permanent Loan ; and even the provision m ath 'would fall greatly short of what it was estimated a Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that from the ob servations\made•by the Right Hon. Gentleman op posite to him (Mr. Foster), it' might be ,supposed that the Tax now ,proposed on Iron was exactly si mikir to the Duty which had been proposed on Iron in this Country ; but the fad was direaly the re. verse. • This was not an Excise Duty—this was not a Tax upon native Iron, but on foreign Iron. It was contended that if this Duty were laid on, there ought to be a countervailing Duty in England. In an swer to this assertion, he begged to ask, how it happened that no less - than five Duties had been im posed upon. Iron in this Country, without any coun tervailing duty being imposed in Jreland ?—These several Duties amounted to no less than 21. 1 os. per ton, and when Duties to such an amount had been laid on in England without any countervailing duty in Ireland, he did not think it new fair to call for a countervailing duty -in England when a duty of 11. 85. was proposed in Ireland. . If he had any doubt upon this subjea, he was enabled to resort to the best possible assistance, for he had the Right Hon. Gentleman's own authority: The year before last the Right 'Hon. Gent. had proposed an altera tion of the Duties, by converting the whole into British currency, with the excep tion of the Imports from Great Britain. Now it was impossible to deny that this was an alteration of the Duty to the -amount of a t -third per cent. without any counter vailing duty having been proposed. Here then he had the Right Hon. Gentleman's authority for what •he Was, now doing. , It was true, that in the in stance he had alliided to the sum was small, but that was of no importance,• the principle was established, whether the sum was large or But if Ireland had an absolute right to call for this countervailing Duty, for this additional Duty of 11. ss. undoubtedly Great Britain had an equal right to .cali for a countervailing Duty in Ireland, in eon sequence of the Duties to . the amount 21. 11 s. per ton which had been imposed in Great Britain. — These cases certainly did not escape the attention of the Legislature at the time of the Union. It was enacted that countervailing Duties 'should be im posed in each Country, and the articles are specified in the Schedule No. I. ; but in that Schedule iron and hardware are not mentioned ; they are included .in Schedule No. 11. which contains a List of Ar ticles which are to be subje& to a fixed Duty for 20 years. ConSidering, therefore, that this subjea was fully within the contemplation of the i persons who framed'the A& of Union, and. considering that no countervailing Duty had been called for in Ireland in consequence of the additional Duties' in this Coun try, he did not think the Right Hon. Gentleman's objedipn intitled to any weight. • With resped to the objections made by the other Right Honourable 'Geritleman respecting Sugar, and by the. other -Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Rose), he begged to re-assert what he stated on a -former -oc casion, that all the Duties in Ireland were an nual. The Legislature never had felt itself bound to continue the Duties of the former year, but altered or repealed them whenever it thought pro -per. He wished the. Right Hon. Gentlenian had - stated his reasons for asserting, that this Duty on Sugar would not produce any 'L Revenue. The average during the last year was .50s. ; the Tax would certainly then have attached, and he saw, no reason why it should not ,attach now. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had accused him of not making provision for the interest, of the Loan to this as sertion. he should give a very short answer: The Charge for the Loan, not including the Interest that might become due , upon Treasury Bills that might ,be hereafter issued, was 263,6661, ; the provision he had made was 333,2441. which exceeded the Charge by above 64,0001. and consequently ample provision was made for the Loan. It was,true ' . that he had stated the amount of the Charge, on opening the Budget, at 313,0001. ; but this was be -cause he had done what none of his predecessors had done, viz. provided, by 'anticipation, for the in terest that might become due during thecurrant year. This he certainly was not bound to do, and conse quently the Ways and Means exceeded the regular Charges, as he had before stated, by 64;0001. ; and even-if the DUty on Su g ar, which he had estimated at 60,0001. did not produce a single farthing, 'still there would be a surplus of 40001. But he begged that-it might -not for a moment be supposed that hei admitted the position of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that this Duty would - not produce any • Revenue. — The Right Hon. Gentleman bad formed his opinion upon the Price of the Day ; he had formed his-cal culation upon the average of one or two years.— Upon these grounds he should •certainly persevere in the Tax. Mr. FOSTER said,. that the situation of England and Ireland was such, that, although the - former could affbrd to relinquish the'advantage of a coun tervailing duty, the latter was not in a condition to forego the prote&ion of it, and allow this _country an advantage. The dodrine of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that because an article was not found in the first Schedule of the Act he had quoted; a coun tervailing duty was not to extend : . to it, was quite ,new, and extremely dangerous. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, he did not mean that it was not competent to Parliament to extend that Duty; but he would ask, since the Right Hon - . Gentleman seemed 'so strenuous for the countervail ing Duty, why it. had. not been called for in the case of the Duty on Cotton Wool, 'which had been inn -posed since the Union ? • . Mr. ROSE said,that Duty was only a penny per pound, and not an obje& of great consequence, and he thought no omission ought to be pleaded as a precedent for not now pursuing the right course. Mr. CORRY said, he' was glad to see the princi ple of the Union so well agreed upon. Undoubt edly, a countervailing duty ought to he laid in either Country, for a duty imposed on the other; and, therefore, the Tax now proposed would have the effed of equalizing what, by the increase of duty in this Country, since the Union, without a counter vailing duty in Ireland, had been made unequal.— He hoped the Right Hon, Baronet would make the Duties on Ireand perpetual, instead 91 aurnial and uncertain, as they now are. Lord CASTLEREAGH spoke at same length on the necessity of immediately remedying any breach or omission of the enactments o,f the Ad Of Union: fr - thought the 'Kali on Iru4 would have TOying the prcduce of the duty, :1- r.V.V said,, he .'was not a friend to •Iron,. but be submitted to it as the Ace of evils. When Gentlemen oh because it affeCted the manufaCtures, .need the measures by which the Right onet was to raise a considerable revenue, w. ~„jiey be sO.O - ood as to point out what course could ° possibly be = adopted, by which tri.Simanufakqures of the-country would not be al l . would not accede to the duty on iron it ' ii•viogfed a principle-Of the 'Union"; but it did dot apppr to him to do..tg: The duty on Sugar, safficien t was provided without it, to . - cover the . Loan, was imposed, became a duty was, also im posed in England, and he considered it to be intend ed as A security for the future interest of the Loan, in addition to the faith of Parliament. He admitted the Iron Duty was rather a strong measure, but he did not know any that. would be less severely felt. Sir WILLIAM YOUNG, Mr. PARNELL, and Mr. Efusx.issog, said a feW words in opposition to the Taxes. • . Op account of a verbal omission which Mr. Fos tint pointed out, the Cornmittee did not proceed in the Bill; but the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow. AMERICAN INTERCQURSE BILL. Lord TEMPLE moved the Order of the Day fbr a Committee on the Motion for leave to bring in a Bill for regulating the Intercourse between America and the West Indies.: The Ho - use having tesolVed itself into a Com• mittee, after a few cursory observations from Mr. ROSE, Mr. Fox, and Sir WILLIAM CURTIS, a dis• cussion of some length took place'; which, as the merits of the measure have been already amply and ably discussed in the House of Lords, it will not be necessary for us to report fully., Lord TEMPLE stated briefly the nature of the measure, and the grounds upon which he was in duced to bring - it forward ; and be had the satisfac tion to say, that they were sufficient to convince his mind, and to trust that they would appear sa tisfaetory to the House. From the great increase of the population of our Colonies, it was fotind im possible that they could produce a sufficient support for their population. Every principle, therefore,, of policy, justice, and humanity, demanded that the subsistence of the Negroes, from' whose labour we - derived so many advantages, should not be left in a precarious state. It appeared by .a Report of the Government of Jamaica, that in consequence of the interruption of the Intercourse between America and the West . Indies during the American War, 15,000 'Slave§ had died for want of food, or from being subsisted On - unWholeserne food. The -Prin ciples of our Navigation Laws, though. good is themselves, could not be strialy adhered to in all times and all circumstances. Ever since the period of the year 1793, the Governors of the West India Islands had been in the habit of Suspending these Laws on their personal responSibility; and by the last Dispatches from Jamaica it appeared, that the Governor felt himself impelled to continue the Sus pension still farther. The Bill was intended only to transfer the responsibility from the Governors, who could not be acquainted with the general policy of the Country, to the Privy Council. The objet:t Of the Bill was not to repeal or definitively to sus. pend the Navigation Laws, but to enable the Go vernors to do that by law which they were now ac- CustOrned to do without law; on all these grounds he moved that the Chairman be directed to move for leave 'to bring in the Bill, &c. • Mr. ROSE thought the present Bill went to re peal one of the most important Laws on the Statute Books. - He contended that there were British Ships enough unemployed to carry on the Provision Trade to the Colonies," and at'nOt more than two per cent. more charge for freightage than the Americans.— From the year 1784 to 1793 the Colonies had been supplied by British Ships as plentifully and cheaply as they could by the Americans ; an,d'the Shipping had got up, in the. Islands, and in our Continental Colonies, to 935 Ships, a Tonnage 1 0,0, and 6,500 Seamen. , Since 170'theShipping, &c. had decreased; 'in consequence of letting in the Ameri-. cans. He allol.ved that this was not . owing to the' Vest Indies ; but insisted that the Governors if supported from home, could remedy the evil. He had reason to think, that there were persons in this Country ready 'to embark in the Trade, if they could. be allowed two Convoys in the year. The opening the Ports to the Americans gave rise to smuggling of East India goOds into the Colonies. The Noble Lord might see a Letter from Admiral Cochrane, that the West Indies are inundated with such goods. He contended, that the present measure, so tar from shifting the responsibility, would remove all respon sibility and that it would have an operation inju , rious to our Foreign Fisheries, to the Linen and Cot ton Mallufaftures, to the' East India Company, and to the Irish - Provision-Trade. He had 110 objection to the Chairman's asking leave to bring in a Bill; provided the :Noble Lord would 'consent that a Committee shOuld be appointed up stairs to examine into the merits of the case on both sides, which might be done in four or five days. Lord TEMPLE could not accede to the proposi tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He saw no reason for appointing a Committee up stairs to in quire into the fads stated in the preamble, .which could not be disputed. Mr. secretary Pay allowed that the Americans had no right to complain of our Regulations respeet ing our trade with our Colonies ; and amongst the Many complaints he had heard made by the Ame ricans, there was no complaint of this kind. The present Bill was not to repeal, but to suspend the Navigation Law. There was a material difference between a Bill to ,repeal, and one to suspend, be cause the suspension implied the existence of the necessity. Notwithstanding all the Right Hon. Gentleman had 'said, he did not think that any one of the Ship-owners, or any of the Colonies, would be injured by the Bill. Since the year 1793 it ,had been found .necessary occasionally to suspend these Laws ; and this Bill only threvi the responsibility from the Governors on the Council of His Majesty. If the Ship-owners could ob% late the necessity, they might prove that to-the Privy Council, and so pre- Vent the Proclamation for the Suspension} from being issued. It had . been said, that the Governors could remedy the necessity, if well supported from this Country : but what better support' could they have than an Order of the Privy Council, which