The Sun. — London, England, 1857-02-19 00:00:00

seemed to him (Mr. Cowper) to be the mostimportant one; for if all that was asked by the secular party was that no distinctive religious formulary should be taught to the children of those parents who objected to it, that was no more than was coat'.;antiy done in national schools, the di rectors of many of which allowed children whose parents objected to their being present to absent themselves during the time set apart for the teaching of religious formularies. The principle which was contained in the bill introduced by the right hon. member for Manchester (Mr. M. Gibson), and which was advocated by the secular party, was that no distinctive doctrine should be taught to the children by the schoolmaster. That was a principle to which the denomi national party in this country was not prepared to accede, and therefore if it formed part of this compromise the right hon. baronet would meet with a very formidable opposition from that party. To deprive the schoolmaster of the right of giving any doctrinalinstruction waste say that he should only give to his pupils a certain amount of information upon secular subjects, but should not appeal to their con sciences, should not give them moral or spiritual training, should be altogether silent upon everything which related to their higher faculties, and should not teach them the grand sanctions of all moral obligations. In the bill to which he had referred, however, it was said that, although the schoolmast er wasno t t o teach doctrinal religion, he was to inculcate truthfulness, morality, and the other virtues. It was assumed by those who prepared that bill that it was perfectly easy to inculcate all the cardinal virtues, without teaching doctrinal religion. From that position he (Mr. Cowper) entirely dissented. How could the master teach a child his duty to himself without a reference to the self-denying principles and examples of Christianity; his duty to his neighbour, without teaching him something of Christian love; or his duty to the Al mighty, without speaking to him of the covenant under which he is placed, and his relationship as the child of a heavenly Father? To say that the schoolmaster should not teach doctrinal religion might amount to saying that he should teach no morality, and that he should not inculcate the conscientious duty of acting rightly. If, however, it were only intended to prohibit the schoolmaster from teach ing certain formularies, then he (Mr. Cowper) had no objec tion to the arrangement. The right hon. baronet had re ferred to the faulty manner in which the Catechism bad been taught in certain schools inspected by the Rev. Mr. Brookfield ; but it seemed to him (Hr. Cowper) that this did not go so much against the teaching of the Catechism altogether as against the mode in which it was taught; and he was afraid that the teaching of it only at a particular hour, instead of allowing it to be enclosed and enveloped, as it were, in the ordinary teaching of the schoolmaster, would have a direct tendency to encourage its being taught in a perfunctory and ill-arranged manner—being learned by rote, and not being understood. Upon this point, how ever, and upon others connected with the arrangement mentioned by the right hon. baronet, he would not now pronounce an opinion, because the house was not suffi ciently informed upon the subject. To the other principles stated by the right hon. baronet heought that no rea sonable objection could be t a k en . Whatever might be the objections to proceeding by a voluntary and local ar rangement, yet at present this was the only way in which we could proceed. It was pretty clear that no system of national education to be supported by rate could be adopted so as to be comulsory upon the whole country, but it was quite possible that certain parts of the country --such, for instance, as the city of Manchester, which was most anxious to be allowed to rate itself—(" No, no," from Mr. Hadfield)—might gladly adopt some such system as that now proposed. There was also great use in dealing separately with towns and rural districts, as there was always a difference in the circumstances of those two classes of places, which rendered it essential that there should be distinctions made in the mode in which they were dealt with. The right hon. baronet had quoted as prece dents two cases of successful permissive legislation. Per haps he (Mr. Cowper) might be allowed to add to these the Public Health Act, which had now been adopted very ex tensively throughout the country, and under which many large towns had obtained advantages which they would have rejected and repudiated had it been sought to force the measure upon the whole country at first. lie was glad that the school committee to be elected by the ratepayers was, to have no power to interfere with the in nagement of existing schools, because such a provision would preserve the great advantages of the present system, the voluntary management of particul ar sc h oo l s w ith aid from the gene ral funds in the country, and would add such further as sistance as could be given by a local central authority. As regarded the help to be given to schools from local rates, he thought that any one who had witnessed the great diffi culty experienced by the friends of education in raising the funds necessary for the suppori of schools must feel that such assistance would be a great benefit to them, especially the clergymen, w h o were now cons t an tl y obliged to provide from their poor pittances funds for the support of schools which they did not like to see neglected. If the arrange ments proposed by the right hon. baronet for establishing a system of local permissive rating were agreed to, the bene volent persons who were now bearing the burden of sup porting the schools of this country would be relieved from the necessity of attending to the wants of children under 11 or 12 years of age, and would be able to devote their atten tion to those young men and women who, having left the primary schools, needed help to enable them to pursue their studies in the evening, and we should then make some real advance in the education of the people. (Hear.) He could not at present commit the Government to the adoption of any particular course in regard to this measure : but he should offer no opposition to its introduction. (Hear.) Mr. E. BALL complimented the right hon. baronet (Sir J. Pakington) upon his industry and perseverance, but ex pressed his opinion that a system of education to be na tional must be religions. He therefore regretted that the right hon. baronet had introduced a bill which, to a great extent, excluded religious teaching, and had accepted the secular, which on former occasions he had himself repu diated and rejected. (Hear, hear.) Lord R. CECIL said that this was an attempt to get in the thin edge of the wedge, which was sought to be intro duced by the resolutions of the noble lord the member for the city of London (Lord J. Russell), which were so sig nally defeated. The instancing of the police bill, which had just been changed from a permissive to a compulsory mea sure, was a clear intimation of what was the ultimate in tention of the right hon. baronet, and showed that the only advantage over the rural districts which he designed for the towns was that of being eaten first. Having caught the towns, he fully intended to catch the rural districts, which he said required such a measure still more. In his representation of the several parties into which the friends of education were divided, the right hon. baronet had en tirely forgotten the adherents to the Privy Council system, His (Lord Robert Cecil's) objection to this measure was that` its supporters were too hasty, that they were in too great a hurry, and would not allow the existing system to be sufficiently tried. That system had been in existence only ten years; we ha I had no census for six years, and we had therefore actual information as to the result of only four years of its operation. It was hasty and unjust to condemn a system on such slender evi dence as this. The right honourable gentleman had, it, seemed, for the first time discovered that the secu larists were not anxious to prevent children receiving religious instruction in the course of their education. If he ever entertained the belief that the suppsrters of the secular scheme had such anxiety, he must have enter tained it alone in that house, for no one else could ever be lieve that persons of sense, persons knowing the feelings of the people of this country, would seek to exclude religion from education. He had found that they sought merely to exclude religion from the domain of the schoolmaster, because he taught it inefficiently, and he cited the report of the Rev. Mr. Brookfield, who said that wo ought to pro vide more efficient instruments for teaching religion ; but did this bill pr wide them ? The right hon. baronet had regaled the house with figures showing the frightful igno rance and destitution in which the juvenile population of our large towns were plunged; but would he tell them that the homes of these children would furnish them with more efficient religious teaching than that now given by the schoolmaster, and to which he sought to put an end ? He had said that the money of the ratepayer's was not to be applied to the support of doctrinal teaching, but he had at the came time said that it was to be applied in aid of ex isting schools. Would he tell the house how many schools there were in the country in which doctrinal religion was not taught ? It was of no use urging other objections, because the right hon. baronet had given notice that he did not intend to be convinced—(a laugh)—and he (Lord Robert Cecil) would therefore confine himself to the ex pression of his opinion that in exact proportion as you raised money by a rate in that exact proportion would subscriptions fall off. In support of this position he ap pealed to the experience of any hon. members who had during the last few years been engaged in promoting the establishment of reformatories. He had heard of cases, and no doubt there ware numbers of instances, in which persons ba I promised to subscribe to the erection of reformatories by means of private funds, but with drew their subscriptions as soon as they heard that the Government was going to contribute. It had been tried in a hundred cases and had always failed. You never would get both voluntary subscriptions and Government aid for the same object and within the same limits. (Hear.) Mr. COBDEN—The objection urged by the noble lord who has just spoken has rather surprised me. He accused the right hon. bark (Sir J. Pakington) of haste. Now, I think it is more than 20 years since this question of educa tion was launched in this house. I have witnessed the dis cussion of many knotty subjects in this country, and have been a party to some, and have always been accustomed to consider that seven years is about the natural duration of any agitation or any great movement for effecting an im portant political change. This measure of education has to my knowledge had three seven years of discussion iii this house, and therefore I think that, whatever other fault may be laid to the charge of the right hon. baronet opposite, he ought not to be accused of haste or precipi tancy. Ido not now intend to go into thealetails of a bill which is not before us, but I have always bsen prepared for the difficulty which has already been thrown in our way —the question of religious teaching. The noble lord who has just spoken asked whether it was intended that the rate should be applied to pay for doctrinal teaching. I answer, "No ; that is not contemplated." (Hear.) The essential difference between this bill and others which have been brought into this house is that while it leaves denomi nations to teach religion in their own schools it does not pro pose to raise a raie to pay for that teaching; and it at the same time stipulates thatparties having schools in connexion with churches or chapels shall set apart a particular time when their own doctrinal religious instruction shall begiven, an I during th a t ti me t h ey shall not be subject to the inspection of the inspectors, nor shall children who are not of the reli gious denomination to which the school belongs be required to attend. Well, surely there is nothing so difficult about this that it cannot be accomplished, if we are in earnest and wish to accomplish it. It is not a question of prin ciple, but merely a question between 9 o'clock in the morn ing and some other hour. If lamto be told that it is not possible to set apart a particular port'on of the day when the Catechi sm can b e taug)it, it must be equally impossible to ali t set hm apart , a h p s t a o r r t y i ae c , t u r oi one r gt aeh h onsa o fytt u u at r 4 oihyfteoh should t r h e s uteaching yet tl g it eo i g i r e a s p s V; i: tt t hii time 1 e t m o f ao t ir h t e e era w :ah e n l well -ordering subject,o t r h d school thiomuel t sd h sn a ho t ot y ul c i i . td u L s bi h en o tduoel another. a tih v e ebry a . Surely, if doctrinal religious teaching be of that importance which those who obj ec t t o th e right hon. baronet's bill attach to it, you yourselves will say that it is of so much moment that a time should be named when such insti ue tion should be given. It is done already. When this subject comes to be fully discussed it will be found that your national schools have already adopted this plan; that many national schools are now receiving children of all denominations, with the understanding that they are not to be taught the Catechism. And how are you to carry out that in good faith, unless ypu have a particular time when the Catechism is taught ? Then see how the middle classes overcome the difficulty. In the city of London you will find a school kept by that excellent man Dr. Mor timer, who will tell you that he has Jaws, Roman Catho lics, and every denomination of children. If you ask him how he gets over this difficulty, hewill tell you what every man who is worthy to bo at the heal of a school will tell you, th a t h e h as f orms o f prayer —w7lich he will show you r--which are read 'se , the children ; and that when this is over he directs their attention to French, to German, to , IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT . the most important towns in the empire, namely, Man ychester. I am glad to tee my right hon. friend the member _ for Manchester in his place. I am sure he will not dispute the accuracy of my statement. I find that the Rev. Dr. M'Kerrow stated, in his examination before the commit tee upon the Manchester and Salford Education Bill, that there were 30,100 children in Manchester who were neither at school nor at work. (Hear.) I had an opportunity of conversing with him on the subject about a week ago, and he informed me that the state of things has become rather worse since that evidence was given. I have before me a memorandum of a report which was given to me a few days ago by a clergyman who is much estee:ned by all those who know him for the exemplary manner in which he discharges his spi ritual duties in the great town of Manchester—l mean Canonßichson, the rector of the parish of St. Andrew's. That parish is only of the extent of 97 acres, upon which there is a population of 13,000. Canon Richson's re port states that, of the population between 3 and 16 years of age, 431 per cent. attend Sunday schools, 25 per cent, are at work, 29 per cent. attend day schools, and 46 per cent. are neither at school nor at work ; the result being, as he assures me, that not less than 1,200 children in that single parish attend no school whatever. I appeal in the most temperate manner to every gentle. man in this house, even to my strongest opponent on this subject, to say whether such a state of things ought not to be remedied. Ido not undervalue the present system. I acknowledge the benefits that it has con ferred, but I ask whether there is anything in it which can cope with the evils to which I have briefly adverted ? I wish to deal with the house with the most perfect fair. ness, and I therefore at once avow that I desire to esta blish religious freedom and toleration with reference to the education of the people. (Hear.) I am in favour of local contributions in support of an object which is interesting to every home in England, and I want to establish local management and control of the funds so raised. When the right hon. gentleman the member for Manchester addressed the house in favour of the edu cational bill which be introduced two years ago, las stated that in his opinion the division of the British public into three great parties on this question was fatal to legislation. The three great parties to whom he adverted consist, first, of the religious party—that is to say, those who are in favour of combining a religious with a secular educa tion—of whom I am' one ; next of the voluntary party ; and, thirdly, of the secular party. He said that no measure on education could be passed until two of those great parties united, and that those who were most likely to unite were the first and the thirdly mentioned parties. So far as one great locality—viz., Manchester, is concerned, such a union has taken place. Tne bill which I desire to introduce has been prepared. with the co-operation of a very large committee consisting of very able men, and representing in equal numbers those two great parties—the religious and the secular parties if I may so call them—who, I am thankful to say, now act cordially tegether. The bases upon which they have consented to act are briefly these ; Those who are favour able to religious teaching have cansented that the rates should be expended for the benefit of secular schools, while the secular party have consented to allow the rates to be applied in support of those schools in which reli gion is taught. The secular party yielded on one con dition only—namely, that the money contributed by the ratepayers should not be applied directly to doctrinal religious teaching. I cannot help here stating what in my opinion are the real objects of the secular party. In my humble judgment they made a most serious mis take in adopting that name. I believe that they ought rather to have called themselves the separate party, be cause their object is not to prevent religious instruction being imparted to children, but to impart secular educa tion only through the medium of the schoolmaster, leav ing religion, which they consider too sacred a matter to be mixed up in ordinary schools with secular education, to be taught by a more appropriate instructor. The most eminent leaders of the secular pasty are as deeply impressed with the necessity of religious instruction, and as zealous for its spread, as those who belong to the reli gions party. I admit the force of their objection to reli gious education being imparted by the ordinary school. master, but my opinions are on the opposite side. I think that religion ought to be mixed up with the whole system of education from infancy. (Hear.) But before hon. gentlemen make up their minds to condemn the secular system I beg them to look at the report of the .Rev. Mr. Brookfield, given in the very last minutes of the Council on Education, and which was placed in our hands in the course of last week. Mr. Brookfield is a clergyman of the Church of England, and his report shows with great force the evils which arise from the imperfect system which he describes. After giving a report of the very absurd answers which the children gave whom he examined in the Catechism of the Church of England, he says : " It grieves me, who am not prone to use such words— it grieves me to think how this daily half-hour, which is usually spent in learning the Catechism by rote, and with such poor success, might have been spent in learning small portions, such as the Lord's Prayer, the Commandments, and the duties towards God and ourneighbour, thoroughly and wall and with intelligence, and how in the course of those years which result in such grotesque results as I have recited almost every recorded word of the Redeemer might have been stored in the memory, never to be forgotten. That I think ought to show us that we _ought not too hastily to condemn the view of those who think that the schoolmaster is not a fit person to impart religious in struction to his scholars. The basis of the arrangement between the religions and the secular parties is this, that the rate shall be granted to every school, that the reli gious teaching in the existing schools shell be left pre cisely upon the same footing as that which it now rests, and that every school, whether it be a Church of Eng land school or a Dissenting school, shall be allowed to teach its tenets to the children who attend it, but that there shall be no violation of conscience, and therefore that children shall not be compelled to learn the creeds or Catechisms against the wish of their parents. In a speech which I lately delivered elsewhere I said that it was most desirable that any new legislation upon this subject should be in the direction rather of supplement. ing the existing state of affairs than of attempting to substitute another system which should be wholly and entirely new. I have endeavoured to have this bill drawn with close attention to that principle. It pro poses that the rate to be laid shall, in fact, be a rate in aid of the existing system ; that the pence now drawn from the children's pockets shall continue to be contributed by them ; that the assistance now granted by the Committee of Council shall not be interfered with ; but that the difficulty of giving certainty and permanence to the schools, which now exist, shall be removed by means of a rate in aid, to be levied ac cording to regulations laid down in the bill. At one time I thought of introducing a provision giving a power to establish free schools to be supported by this rate ; bat upon reconsideration that part of the bill has been altered. (Elear, hear.) I should myself prefer t 3 see the general adoption of a free system, but I believe that at present, at all events, the country is not prepared fur it, and tI think that it would not be wise to introduce such a system partially by legislation. 'therefore, the only provision with regard to the establishment of free schools contained in this bill is tbat the local committee shall in particular localities, after clear proof of their poverty has been given, have po .er either to establish free schools or to admit a certain proportion of free sch6lars into existing ones. Ido not know that there is any other important principle of the bill to which it is necessary for me to advert, with this important excep tion, that the framers of the bill are most anxious to make it perfectly clear that it is not intended that there shall be aey interference with the management of exist ing schools, beyond that point up to which interference may be necessary and inevitable in order to insure com pliance with those conditious without the observance of which the objects of the bill would not be obtained— (hear, hear)—but that the principle of the bill shall be with regard to religious teaching perfect freedom of con science, and with regard to the management and conduct of schools that there shall be no unnecessary or avoidable interference with e xisting arrangements. I am quite aware that I run the risk of being assailed with those imputations which have been made on former occasions ; that I may be told that I am promoting an irreligious plan—(hear, bear)—that I am seeking to destroy an ex isting system which works well—(hear, hear)—and am introducing a measure which, if successful, will put an end to the voluntary exertions which have done so much. (Hear, hear.) I can only say that, w bile I feel profound respect octbfjoerettns, e z t and good feelings ofhose who make I feel bound to disregard the objections themselves. (Hear, hear.) I will nut consent to be di tftvohoe ue r tyn t a e dkw d eec, r ui o pi i o nobi t all h lit eh e ctvihas l e i la n mst t e ulob w ajvne h beed i ent c t h dbuaiyrl ,metpoyatgose objectionsest a e iho n senk s raeotoef erroneousf tmhw d e u ahn t hi ycnoheuhrsalecsa consider consci entiouslylsneddsti un founded. the case of necessity which has been proved,re ferenceuthdeart prejudices. t o Thatparty db declare na t t r o hseeo mol ony nl existing ygfi wrnai v y i e i w n s which won't t call qu them t before belief P a a s r Parliament, atcmhhadrstri, Ch if ristian, as b n a e s C w h ilt u tilc r e c hd h h; m aa a su n nd , o a lw nd as an English politician, Parlia ment will adopt the principles which I am about to pr • pose, we shall not only promote the i n t e l lectual advance ment of the people, but shall do more than we can in any other way accomplish to extend sound re li g i on among them. On the other hand, if this bill do no t pass, the discussion of such a measure can do nothing but good. I offer it as a contribution in a great cause, and I believe that the more we discuss such contributions, the more we analyse and debate this great subject, which touot , e.4 every home in England, the wore we shall soften preju dice- rernob e erroneous impre-sions, and el cit truth ; and that then we may hope ere long to arrive at a prac tical solution of this great and most important question. (Cheers.) The right hon. baronet concluded by moving for leave to introduce the bill. Mr. W. F. COW PER said that he did not think that any one would oppose the introduction of the measure which the right hon, baronet had with so much perseverance, and acting from so high a sense of public duty, proposed for the mature and deliberate consideration of the house. The risshggmaphpaetothtoretof:ntut.iboobotnaronet had shown a most conciliatory spirit by not r eproducing to hied measure of a former year, but turning the objections of some of his oppo nents, and introducing which should receive the soonwlyhoofhaself and his friends, but also of quently, this bill was edntiaPtrleebdviilitooufly opposed him. Copse incomdpirreoemtisaeodbeit between each o th er. He (Hr. Cowper) did the result of atconsiderationwo parties w a h s obei hadng olg-continued opposition to hitherto been dofnotthat present feel com eheeof ob j ri u cl dlege waso fbtehf before r charactere it the house w a o t u l compromise, a be er w but ha what of the concessions which had d e :l : l: o t3 h eennt s h : t g e. With regard to religious instruction fl iu t adu la ; point would be whether, according to the terms of this in- com promise, the master of a denominational school was to be prohibited from giving doctrinal instruction to those pupils who were of the 831/29 denomination as himself. The right hen, baronet was not very clear upon that point, which ROUSE OF C OMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER to'o't the chair at 12 o'clock. I' VATE BUSINESS. 1 bills were read a second ti me , an d The following T . t 'ate () m er e t o be co' 3:1 03 : , : — Banff, Porsoy, and Strathisl a ita il wa y ; Chat ha tilt- Uistrict Water • Medical, Legal, and G e neral htu tuf 'Jew Equitable Life Assurance Com panies .taaalr .smaDir,n ; N a ti ona l A ssurance an d Invest ment A ss oc' A.rqon. ; Orkney Roads ; Ringwood, Christ church, a nd - Dorarnenaouth Railway; and St. Philip's Church ArtaverPrJol): RAILWAY RATING. Mr. IT ArefIELD presented a petition from the Man chester, SlN)ffield, and Lincolnshire Railway Company, complai fling of the present duty of 5 per cent, on the gross amount of the passenger traffic, and a'so against the pre- Bent high rate of local taxation, and the want of a proper court of appeal against the injustice complained of. TEA AND SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. TIORSFA.LL presented a petition from the mer &ante sof Livercapl, complaining of the Chancellor of the Exchequ'er's proposition in reference to the tea and sugar duties. THE IRISH JUDGES. Mr. NAPIER asked the Attorney-General for Ireland whether any arrangement had been made to secure the attend ance of a Judge at Chambers in Dublin during the circuit which is now fixed to go out at the end of this monti . The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said that no offi .tial reference had been made to the Government on the m. ►tter. The remedy, which was in the hands of the judges, would no doubt be of great importance and con venteace, and he suggested that if the circuit were so ar ranged that one of the judges left for circuit earlier than the others, that he would be able to return to Dublin within a day or two after the Chief Justice had left for circuit, and then the grievance complained of would be remedied. THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 10, 1 S 7. mathematics, or to classics, but that he does not, nor would purposes of tient doctrinal instruction ; that that in any other man of sense, run one study int, another, and struction will be imparted at certain fixed hours, which will blend in the minds of his pupils things which are en- be duly notified ; and that children may be aelmitted who tirely unconnected with each other. There is really uo do not accept it, and who will be absent during the time difficulty, and the reason why lam so glad that the right that it is given. But, then, it is not a correct description hon. baronet has brought in a permissive hill is this, that of the scheme to say that the rotes will not go in aid of when the matter comes to be put to a practical test, when doctrinal teaching. They wi'l support the school ; and the you have one municipality which does itself the honour to school will still remain a national or a 'denominational lay a rate in the cause of education, you will find that all school, as the case may be, in which religious instruction this religious difficulty will vanish—(hear, hear)—and that will be given exactly as heretofore. I have heard of a pro we have been amusing, or rather terrifying ourselves for 20 position, emanating, I believe, from a section of the volun years with a mere bugbear. (Hear, hear.) There is no tary party in Scotland, to the effect that, while consenting practical difficulty in the matter. In the Bluecoat School to give religious instruction in the public schools, there you have from 300 to 500 boys, but you have no difficulty should be a separate payment for that instruction. Thig about this religious question. There are also in different appears to me a very objectionable proposal, but I &TA parts of the country many proprietary schools. There is understand it to form any partof the righthon. gentleman's the celebrated school at Birmingham, of which the present scheme. Therefore notwithstanding all the objectionsnrged Bishop of Manchester was head master, and it is his boast to his plan, the right lion. gentleman does propose thattbis that no one was ever excluded on account of his religious rate should form an additional fund for schools in which opinions. The Bishop of Manchester gives his sanction and religious instruction is given, and given, too, not according approval to this measure. He was head master of this to a mode of which some hon. members disapprove, al- Birmingham school, in which there were 1,200 or 1,300 though Ido not--viz., by the teaching of the Bible only, boys. He had children of all denominations, but he did but according to the form now adopted in the national and not attempt to proselytise them and turn them from the many other schools. This being so, it does notappear to me faith to which they belonged to his own. There is really that the right hon. gentleman has made any such dangerous no difficulty about this question if we set honestly to work ; concession to the secular party as the last speaker seems to and Ido sincerely hope that at this day, in the year 1857, suppose. On the contrary, that has itself made an import we shall not lay ourselves open to the reproach which was ant concession—namely, that the religious teaching of the made by Sir Samuel Romilly in his diary some 30 years ago. schools she , ' be supported from the rates, provided only that When speaking of the discussions concerning education i n religious liberty is not infringed by compellin g th ose o f th e this house, he wrote—" lam afraid that people are not in pupils to attend such instruction whose parents dissent from earnest about education ; that they are afraid of the tax it, and that it is given at certain fixed hours, to be duly that would be imposed upon them to educate the people." notified. The right hon. gentleman elsewhere stated fairly We have come to a time when we are all in earnest, all the opinion of the secular party when he said that they wishing for a better system. If so, Ido not think we shall hold that the children ought to be religiously brought up, have any difficulty in carrying out some plan, and I don't but that the schoolmaster is not the person nor the school think there has been any scheme submitted to the house the place for doing so. My view, agreeing with that of the more likely to meet with general acquiescence than that right hon. gentleman, is, on the other band, that the which the right hon. baronet has proposed. Ido not in- school is the place and the schoolmaster the person. (Hear.) tend now to go into details, but I thought it necessary to At the same time, if you support a school by rates—if you allude to the religious difficulty, which has been thrown require that people not of one, but of many different de in oar faces so long that it is high time that we should in nominations, be they Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, or some locality put to the test this great bugbear, which I Jews, shall contribute towards the maintenance of that apprehend will instantly vanish, and we shall then find school—you cannot after that well insist that only a that we have been alarming ourselves with a shadow, particular kind of doctrinal instruction shall be given Mr. HENLEY—Sir, l am quite ready to c once d e a t th e or that the children of those who do not receive that outset that the discussion of questions of this ki n d does instruction shall be excluded from the school. • Thus fir I think the bill of the right hon. gentleman accords good, and leads eventually to the discovery of the truth ; with the principle of religious liberty. I don't quite un but I disagree with my right hon. friend as to the effect of deritend ralether or not he proposes to assist by a rate a the decision which the house came to on his scheme last school in which the secular principle is followed, and no year. It is taking a very narrow view of that decision to religious instruction given. (Hear.) Such a provision, if say that it was based on the simple fact that the measure it i formed ic part l i c l ) a f s tl i le s,i m n e o astl a re c , e i ra n i a g n h y t a nte s consid erable wiiei tr was intended to be ge neral and comp u l sor y i n it s operation: the right hon. gentleman or l I have ventured to propose to The bill of my right hon. friend both last year and the the house. We shall, however, be Letter able to judge of year preceding was objectionable, because it would have this bill when we have had an opportunity of carefully completely sapped, and ultimately done away with, the examining its various clauses; and I can only trust that until that time no hon. gentlemen will raise a prejudice existing system of education; and that was the ground on which the house reject e d it. Th e h on . gen tl eman who against a scheme intended by its author as a concession to spoke last told us that the r e ligi o u s diffi cu lty i s a bugbear, objections which he does n ot hi m s e lf feel, but by conciliat ing which he hopes to be able to take a step towards the and that no man of common sense has any trouble in over- attainment of a proper system of national education. For coming it. Every man has a perfect right to hold his own my own part I heartily wish the right hon. gentleman opinions, but the assumption of the hon. member unques- every success, end sincerely trust he may be able to obviate tionably implies that come tires-fourths of the people of t h e objections to which his scheme is liable. (Hear.) this country are destitute of common sense. A great Mr. HADFIELD regretted that the right hon. gentle many persons, quite as earnest in the cause of education as the hon. gentleman h ave a p p li e d th e i r m i n d s f or many man (Sir J. Paki ng t on a i n hi s re v i ew o f th e e d uca tional condition of this country, had omitted to notice the years to this subject, without discovering religious educa tion to be a bugbear. 2,500,000 child ren now regularly receiving instruction, Mr. COBDEN—The right bon. gentleman must excuse under upwards of 300, right teachers in the Sunday schools me. I attach as m uc h i mpor t ance to re li g i ous education of this count r y. The right hon. gentleman had hitherto identified his advocacy of education with a section of the as he does. I say the bugbear is—not religious instruction, clergy of the Established Church, but he now suddenly but—the difficulty of separa ti ng d oc t r i na l f rom secu l ar in struction. turned round an d th rew hi mse lf into the arms of the seen- Mr. HENLEY —I th an k t h e h on. gen tl eman f or hi s tor- far party, who se v i ews h e soug ht t o em b o dy i n his scheme. rectfan, because I am the lastwho would person another man the result of my own misapprehension; but he He lately went down to Manchester to hold a conference . with the leaders of that party, and in a two hours' inter another allow me to say that the religious teaching which is confined to half-an -hour or an hour per day, and is fm- view with them he professed to , have settled this great ques tion off hand for the whole world. How powerful must the spell of th e r i g ht h on . gen tl eman ' s gen i us b e when with parted simply as you would teach F renc h , G erman, an d a single wave o f hi s wan d h e cou ld set a t rest the vexed mathematics, or as you would g i ve any o th er l esson, i s not question that had so long agitated the country. a teaching lik e ly t o reac h the hearts of c hild ren, b ut w ill Sir J. PAKINGTON—Iver said that. prove wholly barren and inoperative. Religion must be Mr. HADFIELD had not heard the statement himself; diffused over the whole surface of their training, or it can never be useful in regulating their conduct. Hence arises his only authority for it was the newspaper reports. This the difficulty when the matter comes to be fairly worked bill would stir up and perpetuate a greater amount of secta r out. This point was we ll touc h e d upon a y th e r i g h t h on. ian bittern ess f rom one en d o f th e coun t r y t o th e o the r gentleman opposite (Mr. Cowper), who said that if this im- than had ever been produced by the agitation about Church rates or Maynooth. The Roman Catholics would not send portantleranch o f i nstruct i on cou ld b e li m it e d t o h a lf an h our each day it might easily be dealt with, hut that when . you their children to the Protestant schools, and the conse come to teach the c hild hi s rule of life doctrinal religion quence would be th a t th e R oman C a th o li c sc h oo l s would meets you at every t urn an d cons tit u t es y our rea l difficulty. also have to be s u pp or t e d f rom th e propose d ra t es. Th e As far as I gathe re d f rom my r i g ht h on . f r i en d' s s t a t emen t non. member for N or th W arw i c k s hi re (M r . S pooner ) vehe he makes no provi s i on w h a t ever f or new sc h oo l s . H ow then meetly condemned th e vo t e so f 26 , 0001. a - year f rom th e is the deficiency t o b e supp li e d ? A er of schools now in ex- ll that his scheme does is public funds for the C o ll ege o f M aynoo th ; b u t w h a t wou ld this — there being a c er t a i n numb he say to a measure like this, which would probably saddle istence, the gr ea t es t proport i on o f w hi c h are a tt ac h e d to the people with taxation t o th e ex t en t o f severa l h un d re d s of thousands per annum for the su pp or t o f a r e li g i on o ften some religious d enom i na ti on or ano th er, it i s propose d th a t described by the nothon. gentleman in terms which he (Mr. you should aid the funds of these schools by a rate. This Redfield) ridventure to repeat ? The sacred prin is what my right hon. friend, in very gentle language calls on wre made the football of parties in that a local contribution. (A. laugh.) Why, we have local h o use who ore o l u e ght to set the people an examaae of respect contributions now, only they happen to be volunaarY, and for them. He was confident that this bill would be unpo are not exacted by the tax-collector. My right hon. friend putting his case with great skill, said, "I sin forfocal ton- puler with the country, and would share, as it deserved to tributions and l oca l managemen t . " W e ll , so am •• I :for do, the fate of its unlucky predecessors. local co ntri contributions freedom.utio nsan How loc o al w m d a o n e a s ge m m y en ri t g ; ht b h u o t n l . ita til e i l li so d, _ Tpsoasiidtively d that the state of Vacation in our for religious isgraceful, and that until deal with that point ? Th ere are numerous sc h oo l s i n ' he ru al ral r. d W ist . ri E ct W s w A a lt s country, each affiliated t o some re li g i ous community, iit' nekes d of life present, grossly neglected, it was vain aspect totlle Illeo been built and suppo r ted ; and w h a t h as b een th e grea t as 4 a h l t i i f o e n wag o f the better female atte population ndedt o, ins of instead of e being, humblest whose cost, either entirely o r i n th e ma i n , th ey h av e: . me training of the young to be what it ought to bet The inceptive to the public to devote its money, a n d, what true system of national education was the voluntary sys is a thousand times more valuable, its ti me , f or th e or - Lem, but that would be best conducted by means of a ganisation of the vast machinery now at work? Un- rate. If a rate could only be imposed, as in the donbtedly, the mainspring of it all has be e n the case of the Libraries Act, by the declared will of the desire to give a re li g i ous education t o th e child ren o f th e i r majority, was not that essentially a voluntary species of neighbours. (Hear.) In this state of things my right hon. taxation ? Religious training was, no doubt, the highest friend interposes. " True," he says, " you have got your of all education, but then religious instruction was per schools and your schoolmasters ; true, you are making no fectly compatible with religious freedom. This bill sane complaints ; but I think you have not enough money. 1 tioned doctrinal teaching where it now prevailed, and did must levy a rate and pay you a certain sum from it for not impose the secular - system where it did not exist. every child that comes under your training." The schools, If the right hon. gentle man wou ld i n t ro d uce a clause however, having been establish e d on th e ex p ress con diti on providing that, while the religions teaching should be free, that the scholars are to have religious instruction, my right the conductors of a school should nevertheless see that no child was left without religious instruction of one kind oi hon friend says, "I will g i ve y ou mone y t o t a k e a num b er of children who shall receive no religious instruction at another, religious freedom would thereby be maintained all." That is the principle of his scheme. Let us see how inviolate, anti religious instruction at the same time ex it would work; Suppos e a P res byt er i an sc h oo l t o b e se t tended. It was quite right to make this a permissive bill up in a locality where many Roman Catholic children re- only, and it was to be hoped that when the good effects of side. The Presbyterian schoolmaster is to be compelled— the system had been shown in one or two instances it on the principle of religious freedom, forsooth l—to admit would be adopted generally throughout the country. any number of these Roman Catholic children for whom Under the Factory Act a certificate of attendance at there is room in his school, and to teach them everything school must be produced before they could be employed, else, but not a word of religion. What is that but ignor- and he was in favour of extending this principle to agri ing religion altogether, under the specious guise of religi- cultural labour as well. A. crisis had now arrived in the ous freedom, and doing palpable violence-to the consciences educational question, and it behoved all parties to unite to of the men who, in order to give instruction set on foot solve it in a conciliatory spirit, for unless some system of almost your present machinery, and w h o are nevertheless national education were adopted there was but little hope to have pupils threat upon them (in place of those whom of preserving our prosperity or of bettering the condition they now teach) of whose education religion is to form no of the people. part ? True, my right hon. friend says he is for religious Six. J. PAKINGTON, in reply, protested against Lord instruction, but the supporters of the secular system hold Robert Cecil's version of what he had said. The objection that the school is not the place for teaching religion. of Mr. Henley that the measure made no provision for new Sir J. PAKINGTON — I do not say so. schools was quite correct. The bill had been advisedly Mr. HENLEY—I am aware that my right hon. friend drawn in that form, because it had been far more difficult does not say this, but his new allies do. He differs in to keep than to establish schools. (Hear, hear.) He knew a case in which a very good school-house had been built, opinion from them, but then he proposes-a sch eme th a t will do exactly what they say. (Laughter.) The house but which bad never been opened, because sufficient funds must not run away with the notion that this bill is only could not be obtained. (Hear, hear.) He perfectly agreed permissive. Permissive for what ? --that is the question. with all the right hon. gentleman ha .l said with reference Is it under the vote of a narrow majority, obtained in a to,the fitness of ignorant mon to receive the gospel, but at the same time the concurrent testimony of all clergy men 51 be4th 9 e tmebxbeing are endg , u e sr for rs y g iving ou don'tany know instruction how, so, was to the effect that the ignorance of the population was where there are 100 people in a place, and the greatest difficulty with which they had to cont en d. (Hear, hear.) Leave was then given to bring in the bill, Mr. Disraeli againststrongly favourablep their to s e d hepiroasuchconsciences, a p co i i ent, ee te r b, o ips large the toosl teach y remainingwimei anything t r h iminority ollf in the world and Lord Stanley being associated with the right hon. except our duty to God and man. (" Oh," and " Hear.") gentleman for the purpose of preparing it. I cannot believe that the people of this country will ever ENCUMBERED ESTATES COURT (IRELAND). be content with such a state of things; and in so grave a Mr. WHITESIDE moved for returns of any commu matter 1 for one doubt whether they ought to be allowed nications addressed to the commissioners for the sale of to establish it. I know it is said that unless persons pos- encumbered estates in Ireland, or to any of them, relating sess a great deal of secular knowledge your labour in to the removal of Baron Richards from the Mace of chief attempting to give them religious inerection it thrown away. (Cries of " Hear, hew., "in which Sir J. Peking- c t ammassioner . , and of the dates of said communica ions, if any , of the order or communication addressed to ton was understood to join.) My right hon. friend cheers Baron Richards, containing his removal from said court, that statement, lam sorry to he ar hi m c h eer i t. All I and of the date of same ; and, of any order or warrant for can say is that I differ from that opinion as much as light the appointment of a third commissioner since the removal ignorant man who ever drew the breath of' heaven was not differs from darkness. I do not believe that the most of Baron Richards. The hon. and learned gentleman said amenable to the truths of Christianity, (Cheers.) Those who have had the most extensive experience on this point . t c h b a a t nne much by i interest t e p r a e r s a t g w r a a p s ;a greeted which recently e the ntl y other appeared in nf theth e will tell you that the best examples of a truly Christian yfteandafputrnedisthoedthbeywthaentms of fst man n te t r h at a e t o w f h o il u e r tfhele- Baron Richards in the Encumbered Estates Court, at a sa-. public ay papers, announcing the fact that a certain eminent low creatures. The Divine message of mercy to • had been appointed to the office lately held by spirits o n d e are r f u I often pur humblest peasant can understan 1 and receive its • gracious selves to its lessons of humility. (Hear, hear.) If you ma n i s so Lary of 3,0001. a year. It would be recollected that a com pose of investigating the true state of things in the En accents, the highly intellectual and most cultivated of our mission er had been issued about two years ago for the assert that our duty to God and man is to be sought only cumberedsubsequently race will esteem it their greatest privile • ge to submit them- that the business of that court, and its arrears, should be Estates . Court. That commission recommended of seven years of discussion, at what you might easily havecomposed of some of the most through the intellect, you have only arrived, as the result hande g i n o en ve tl r y to ap th p e oi C n o te u d r, of Chancery. A. committee was eminent men in that house, to consider the matter. It was I n n,tba t committee,t hoof two which vtiho Vice-Chancellors Cb e nee llors Attorney-General oould seen from the beginning was the radical difference between us. I say that you must invert the process. Yon must first w st a a t e the e transact all the business of Chancery done by the four teach our duty to God and man, and as a consequence of masters, as well as all the business of the Encumbered that teaching induce people to cultivate their intellects ac- Estates Court with its arrears. The amount of those ar cording as their means p.nd opportunities enable them. I rears, however, was never stated, nor was it ever thought ch th a a ir t hold, then, that you never will teach the young their duty necessary to summon over Baron Richards to 'inform them to God or man if you attempt to do it through the intel- of it. It was understood that Baron Richards should be lect. Such an attempt strikes at the root of the whole reli- restored to his place in the Exchequer, and that the re gions teaching of this country; and I trust, that when m 3 maining commissioners should transact all the business of right hon. friend's bill is before us it will not he found to the court. No communication was ever made to Dr. Long be based on so pernicious a principle. If, however, it is field or Mr. Hargraves of the intentions of the Govern otherwise, I can only promise him to givehim my warmest ment, in order that they might make arrangements for the opposition. There is an essential difference of opinion on disposal of the business in the absence of Baron Richards. this subject between two parties in this house; but lam They, as well as the public generally, only discovered the not sorry that this discussion has • been raised, because I fact on finding a notice one morning on the door of the believe it will elucidate the truth. (Hear.) court that Baron Richards was removed. What was the Lord J. RUSSELL—I am glad, sir, that the right hon. discovery then male as to the arrears in the leaned gentleman the member for Droitwich has again brought the baron's court ? It appeared that there were 700 peti question of natio na l e d ucat i on b e f ore th e a tt en ti on o f thi s tions in hie office, 500 abstracts of titles lying unread, n whch should be d before any of the estate house. I cannot b u t admit—alt h oug h I d o it reluctantly— r a ela d tine i to them could rea be put up for sale, and 21) ache s that the best, or at least the most prudent, course is to dales were unsettled which should be settled before a far make the bill merely permissive and local. At the same time thing of money could be paid in respect to them. The bill I have no wish now, any more than on any former occasion, brought in by the Government was on o to c r eat e two vice. to conceal my indi v id ua l op i n i on th a t it i s th e d u t y o f thi s gl e e n b c n e s ll i o n r e s s , s withall be their conrtof staff, who were to transact all Chancery ; and, acco r di ng t o country to rend er nat i onal educa ti on compu l sory an d pe- report, it appeared that a third commissioner was to be remptory. Yet lam quite aware that that is the view taken appointed. He trusted that the house would not suffer a by this house, and that such difference sof opinion prevails now place to be created until they knew the whole facts. among the public that it would be utterly impossible at The hon. and learned gentleman concluded by making his present to obtain a general assent to any plan fouuded on motion. Colon el DUNNE seconded the m ot ion. such a principle. I thi n k , h owever, t h at t h e r i g ht hon- Mr. HORSMAN said that the hon. and learned gentle ourable gentleman does well in endeavouring to take a step 4. man bat evidently founded his statements upon a news in advance a ith the v i ew o f giv i ng an i mpetus t o thi s grea t a air report, without taking t he pains of ascertaining the question. lam afraid, inieed, that the prospect before P I accuracy of them by putting a simple question across the us, partially opened though it is, is not quite so en table. Although the hon. and learned gentleman had now couraging as the right lion. gentleman seems to iniaeine ' • thought proper to speak in te r ms of praise of the two c orn - and that local and p erm i ss i ve as thi s measure i s an d con - MI . ssioners, they have had on former occasions reason s t o fined to promoting th e success o f th e exis ti n g sc h oo l s • complain of the chergee which he had brought against though it appears-to be, still it is liable to misconceptions them.' The commissioners had performed their duties and misrepresentations, producing unfavourable opinions, faithfully, zealously, ably, and beneficially to the _ country as well as to the Govertnnent, and the which always impede the progress of a measure of this them every ki ed. The right hon gentleman in some degree represent ing ea he does the sentiments of others, seems tome rather to pl a ce a liar in the way of his own bill when he says that occupied ' Cp Gß li c ' au aos c a ur riv u t s l o r e pi t a n ta ra i : n et ' ti hd me t e l i h ni ee dn e h t 1 j ai‘ r to nr e hn d t eNg w u ' v s their c r a e h n o g r oy s t fie ou : r e s e tt e th ; a t a oe pe t i : st e o i i E n dF wra gl i etprurchtsp.shotae Exchequer. ql i h r ß o u e e Af i a d e m n s : i t os og n h t ti e a llov l vi Richards 1 lin jo b be tg fh h y e ( e a e : t n rhtd r he . s a l belonging to different ta l the rates are not ta go towards religious instluction. What is intended is that they shall be applied in aid of schools under the present system e ar C l 11 r h d r e o ar n w rs s. would beforer anaanbini and answer to complaints made against the Encumbered Estates Lord J. RUSSELL—I trival instruction is given. l Sir J. PAKINGTON— '3I°''''' aon was, "not direct y removed from that court to the seat which he had before y expresa., applied." •rue of that gentleman himself ' learned had frequentlycomplained of the distinction. The rate will go in aid of a national seise i- d f4di o ° nO s telti te seedenominations, ' e ve—in which, ' 1 way business was transacted by the three commissioners, say, in Birmingha m or elsewhere, and that school wi ll con- .:ndetated that two wer e amp l y suff i cient for the discharge tinue to give doctri na l instruction in precisely the same of thae duties, The Attorney-General had refused to give manner as it is hitherto done—that is to say, the Bible will any pledea that a third commissioner would not be ap be read, the' Catechism taught, and the great tauths of pointed. It appeared that his right hon. and learned friend Christianity impressed on the pupils exactly as is the 4aus e was entirely in the right, and the hon. and learned now. Therefore there is no room whatever for the quo 1 gentleman opposite, as was not unusua l w ith hi m , en ti re l y Lion just raised by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Henley) % , • the wrong. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. liorsrnan) —viz., whether religi on s h ould be taught b y th e i n t e ll ec t, ia --eceeding with his observations, when he was sad or whether the heart i s t o b e reached a t once ; because w as a- . -erupted by thatreligious instructi on i s still to be con ti nue d w ith denly irate_ -- PM, who intimated that it was a quarter to which that right hon, gentleman himself and also the no- The SPEAIa. discussion was then suspended. hie lord (Lord R. Cecil) are perfectly srtisfied. The only six o'clock, and the., 'a &LLERY or ART. ' question regarding th e app li cation of the ra t e i s th a t t h e NA "lONA." ee • "IVY of any correspondence money will not be directly and professedly given for the , Mr VER NON moved fax A ~ .., between her Majesty's Government and Mr. Sheepshanks, res , ecting the gift of his collection of pictures to the nation.—Agreed to. TEA. DUTIES. Mr. GLADSTONE gave notice that, on Friday, he should submit a motion to the house in committee on ways and means, that this house does not grant any addi tion to the tea and sugar duties of the act of 1855. The house adjourned at a quarter to six o'clock. JUDGMENTS EXECUTION, &c., BILL. On the motion for going into committee on this bill, Mr. HUGHES moved that the bill be committed this day six months. He based his motion on a variety of technical objections to the measure. Colonel FRENCH seconded the motion. Mr. HADFIELD supported the bill. It would prevent debtors in Ireland evading the law by coming to this country, and defeat a judgment obtained against them in Ireland, and vice versa. Mr. WHITESIDE opposed the bill, on the ground that it would inflict a greater injury than it proposed to re medy: Mr. BLAND opposed the bill. The bill was not for a - similating the laws of the three countries, but to alter each of them. Every facility should be given for the recovery of debts, but the house ought to be careful how they gave facilities to fraudulent men to pay money they never owed, and to fraudulent people to give undue preference to one set of creditors to the injury of others. Believing such would be the effect of this measure he opposed it. Col. DUNN also opposed the bill, and complained of the G overnment not introducing such a measure if it wera necessary, but of leaving it to a private member. Mr. M`CANN said that the Irish merchants and trades men objected to the bill because it would afford facilities for collusion with fraudulent debtors. Sir J. FITZGERALD supported the bill. After some discussion, in which Mr. McMahon, Mr. S. Warren, and Mr. Napier took part, Mr. ROEBUCK said that it was true that in a civilised country the laws should be alike and have one effect, but this bill was to give a similar effect to different laws. He therefore objected to the bill, which commenced at the wrong end. They should first make the substantive laws alike, and before that was done, the house ought to scout such peddling legislation as this. (Hear, bear.) The LORD-ADVOCATE defended the principle of the bill, sad entered into a history of the measure from its first in' roductic n in 1854 to the present time, and said that the object of this bill was to give greater effect to the course Row pursued in this country, that of putting in force • j adgment obtained in Scotland without notice to the party, provided the proper forms had been complied with. Mr. SPOONER opposed the bill. Mr. G. BUTT supported it. The house then divided, when the numbers were— For going into committee 127 For the amendment BO Majority —47 The house then went into committee. On clause 1, Mr. MgMAIION asked why the Lord Mayor's Court, the Courts of Common Pleas of Lancaster and of Durham, the Tolzey Court of Bristol, the Passage Court of Liverpool, the Record Court of Manchester, the County Courts of England, and all other courts of record in England, were not put on an equality with the Sheriffs' Courts of Scot land? and he moved an amendment to that effect. _ _ Mr. G. BUTT thought it would be unwise to extend the powers and jurisdiction of the courts named. Mr. CRAITFURD (the hon. member who introduced the KB) bad no objection to the introduction of the Courts of Lancaster and of Durham into the bill, as they were con sidered superior Courts, but he objected to the introduc tion of the inferior courts into the operations of this mea sure. After some remarks from Mr. Napier, the Solicitor- General, and Mr. Whiteside, Mr, HAYTER said that he had received several amend ments to the bill, from one of the Irish Chief Justices, quite in the spirit of the principle of the bill, and he sug gested the adjournment of the committee, to enable him to place the amendments on the paper for the considera tion of hon. members. The ATTORNE Y-GENER A.L for IRELAND supported the suggestion, and added that he had received a commu nication from the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, approv ing of the principle of the bill, suggesting alterations in detail requiring the consideration of the house. Attar some further discussion the house resumed ; Mr. M`MAHON intimating that he should press his amendment on another occasion, if the mover of the bill did xot adopt it. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house resumed. CHIEF CONSTABLES BILL. The house then went into committee on this bill. After a short discussion the clauses were agreed to, and the bill passed through committee. PUBLIC HE A.LTFI SUPPLEMENTAL BILL (1857). Thii bill was read a second time and ordered to be com mitted. NEW WRIT. On the motion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND, a new wnt was ordered for the county of Tipperary, in the room of Mr. James Sadleir, expelled the house. EDUCATION. Sir J. PAKINGTON then rose to move for leave to bring in a bill to promote education in cities and towns. He said—l rise once more to request the permission of the Douse to introduce a bill to give increased facilities for the extension of popuhr education. It is not my in. tention to trespass upon the time of the house at any considerable lengtb, and I am the less disposed to do so because I am sorry to observe that, in consequence of the unexpected termination of the dinu-sion of the bill which has occupied a good deal of attention this morn ing, many of those gentlemen who I knew were anxious to take a part in the discussion of my motion, if discus. sion there shall be, or who, at all events, would have taken great interest in the subject, have left the house. The first explanation which I desire to offer to the house is, that this bill has been so drawn as not to ountravene or reverse the decisions at which this house arrived last year upon the resolutions moved by the noble lord the member for the city of London. I not now advert, for I have done so on previous occa sions, to the rather peculiar circumstances under which the house divided upon these resolutions. All. that I now wish,to say is this, that putting a Parliamentary construction upon the negativing them by a large majo rity, the decision of last year amounted to this, that the house disapproved the plan of the noble lord considered as a whole. That plan was compulsory and general. I have therefore drawn the bill which I seek to introduce in such a manner as to make it, in two most important respects, the exact reverse of the plan of the noble lord. I propose a permissive instead of a compulsory , and a local instead of a gener a l, sys t em of education. lam upon important of the objections to p erm i ss i ve l eg i slation important subjects. I entirely agre e w ith t h e noble l,rd the member for the city of London in thinking that a compulsory and genera ) system of education would be far more satisfactory and beneficial than that which I propose; but when I find that great doubts are enter tained by many people whose opinions aro entitled to great respect, as to the success of a compulsory system, I think I have taken a part at once more prudent and more respectful to the decisions of the house in proposing a permissive rather than a compulsory plan. Entertain' ing this opinion, I may naturally be allowed to inquire what precedents we have with respect to permissive le gislation, and whether they are encouraging or otherwise. There are two very interesting and recent•precedents of that description. There is the act v, hich was passed by the hon. member for Dumfries to permit corporate towns to levy rates for the establ ehment of fibre; tog. We find b. 5' a paper recently laid upon the table that that bill has been taken advantage of in five or six remarkable ee • I think the house will admit that to appeal to the ratepayers of a town to establish a library for the be ne fi t of those who are already educated is not to appeal to their interest or sense of duty to anything like the extent of an appeal to 'them on behalf of those who have never received a n y e d uca ti on w h a t ever . I shall he very well atisfied if the bill which I propose shall be as successful as the Libraries Act of my hon. friend. The next p re to which I s h a ll re f er i s still mere germane to thi subject.ect. I mean th e ac t w hi c h was passed some 16 or 17 years ago, making it permit.- si ve to English counties to adopt an improved system of p ice. This act was a iiireot appeal ti the ratepayers what an object of counties to consent to tax themselves fk adoptedw t a h t e re .act. of vet y great public importance. And s ult t Half of the counties of England I thiok that both of the instances of permissive th at sive legisla tion to which I have referred are very encourag ng propose that the hid Shall be local and not general in its opera'ion, and that it shat: be applie I only to cities and corporate towns. I have selected them because the bouu ly defined daries of their jurisdiction are &ear • T here will, - will, therefore, be no occasion to in frit:Wee any new ma . chinery for the purpose of defining the limits of the ape_ ration cf this bill I believe that there ere many persons who entertain alarm r ,specting the op :rations of au educational bill o f a compulsory and general character, bat a l3° at;e °"'y desirou 4of trying a permissive pete in suck cities and corporate towns as may choose to adopt es. Ido not pretend to say that the necessity for the plan which I propose is not as great in rural district s ae in corporate towns. (heer.) I b e l ieve th a t our sys ein of national education is as defective in the rural districts as in towns ; but we must bear in mind that it is in the latter that a want of education works most evil. The state ments which I have made to the house on previous occa sions as to the necessity for an improvement in ours stern of national education have never yet been disproved, al though in some instances they have been contradicted and they cannot be disproved, because they rest on the sure f)undation of truth. For the purpose of showin g the importance of introducing such a measure a s thi s i nto towns I may mention some statistics with regard to one of LAW INTELLIGE.NCE.—Feb. 18. COURT OF CHANCERY. (Before the Lords Justices of Appeal.) [The following appeared in part of our impression of yes , terday.] IN RE THE ROYAL BRITISH BANK. Mr. Bacon (for Mr. Marcus) moved for leave to appeal to the House of Lords from the decision of this Court; that the adjudication of bankruptcy against the company was valid, and said they had uow served the directors with the necessary notices. Lord Justice Knight Bruce—Then, of course, you can appeal to the House of Lords. Mr. Rolt why cannot these parties appeal to the House of Lords ? Mr. Rolt—l am here to show your lordships. Lord Justice Knight Bruce—Do so. lam curious to know what reasons there can be for such refusal. The act says that if any case presents any "difficulty of import ance," the Court shall have the power of granting an ap peal. The effect of granting such au appeal will not be to stay the proceedings. Mr. Rolt said in point of fact it would not, but it would have the effect of stopping all attempts to agree to a com promise. Lord Justice Knight Bruce—All we have to decide is whether this case is one of sufficient difficulty an 1 impor tance to grant an appeal. Mr. Rolt—Certainly. But I trust I shall be able to show your lordships that this is not a case in which au appeal ought to be granted. The learned counsel than proceeded to quote the words of the statute, and con tended that Mr. Marcus ha I no right to make the present application. Every other shareholder excep:, Mr. Marcus wore commonly of opinion that this application should be refused ; and he trusted that under such circumstances their lordships would refuse it, and decide that all the proceedings that had been taken should not be perilled by this application of Mr. Marcus. More than half the estate had been administered, and he contended that no case could be stated where the estate was so divided, and where steps hkd been taken similar to those which had been taken in this case, to jus ify the present application. Mr. Giffard followed on the same side. Mr. Brown said he had but a very few words to offer in opposition to the motion. Lord Justice Knight Bruce—Are you actually with Mr. Rolt and Mr. Giffard in this case ? Mr. Brown—Yes. Lord Justice Knight Bruce—Mr. Rolt, for whom do you appear ? Mr. Rolt—For the assignees. Lord Justice K. Bruce—Then there are actually three counsel engaged for the assignees in this application. I was only curious to know how many counsel were engaged. Mr. Brown then continued his argument, and contended that the present case was not of sufficient importance to justify an appeal to the House of Lords. But, leaving that part of the case, he maintained that the application of Mr. Marcus was made too late. Several other counsel followed on the same side, and Mr. Bacon having replied on the part of Mr. Marcus, Their lordships refused to grant leave to appeal entirely on the ground that the application came too late. If the present proceedings had been taken immediately, or as soon as was possible after the decision of this court had been given on a former occasion, when this unfortunate case was before their lordships, leave undoubtedly would have been given to appeal to the House of Lords. The motion was therefore ordered to be dismissed, but without costs—Mr. Linklater to have his costs out of the estate. VICE-CHANCELLORS' COURTS, FEB. 13. (Before Vice-Chancellor Kindersley.) CLARKE V. THE ROYAL PANOPTIOON. It will be recollected that this case was argued on the 12th inst., upon two motions to dissolve an injunction, one of which raised the question whether the council, as representing the corporation of the Royal Panopticon, Leicester-square, had a right to sell th• corporate pro perty ; and the second whether, under the terms of the charter which gave them, as trustees for the corporation, a power to mortgage, the council could grant a mort gage with a power of sale. The first question the Vice-Chancellor immediately determined in the affirmative ; upon the second he re served I.iis decision. His Honour now gave judgment on the second motion, and remarked upon the dearth of authority upon this important question. It was clear that a trustee having a power to mortgage only, could not himself sal. Could he, then, delegate a power which h e hi mse lf h a d not ? Having regard to the authorities, his Honour came to the conclusion that this argument must prevail, and therefore, the plaintiff being stepped by his acquies. cence from setting up his objection to the power of sale, that both motions must be granted, and the injunction dissolved with costs. ROLLS COURT, FEB. 18. (Before the Master of the Rolls.) RE CHARLES WALTON, DECEASED-WALTON V. BUTLER AND OTHERS-THE ROYAL BRITISH BANK. Mr. R. Palmer, Q.C. (by special leave granted by his Honour) moved to-day for a❑ injunction to restrai❑ Mr. H. Powis, a depositor in the Brirish Bank, from taking or prosecuting any proceedings at law against the tXeCtl tors of Coal les Walton, deceased, whose estate was in the cour , e of administration under an order of this Court. His Honour said that it was a mistAke to suppose that Mr. P‘pw s could not prove his debt under the estate without t ,ki ,g further proceedings at law. Tht injunc ti pray--d f•ir would be granted, but as the case was somewhat new he did not think it necessary to make any order as to c‘ists.—lnjunction granted accordingly. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH. (Sittings at Nisi Prius, at Guildhall, before Lard Chie Justice Campbell and Special Juries.) LORTON V BOSANQUET. This was an action brought by the plaintiff to recover from the Imperial Fire As-mrance Company, represented by the defendant, a sum of 2841. for lose sustained by him by a fire which brake out on his premises. The defendants, in whose office he effected a policy on his furniture, premises, and stock, pleaded that the plaintiff had not made a bona fide return of his loss, and that upon that ground, and to that extent, they resisted his demand. Toe plaintiff, in his replication, stiatd that he had made a fair representation of his loss, and furnished the defendants with a true bill of particulars, and upon those points the parties joined issue. • It appeared from the evilence of the plaintiff, who is a shipstuith, and whose wife kept a lollypop and general sweetstuff shop at Greenbank, Rotherhithe, that he bad, influenced by the advice of his landlord, effected an as surance in the Imperial Fire Assurance Company's Office, upon his furniture, premises, and stock-in-trade, comprising his tools, &c., and that a fire brok out in a roam on the premises, by which his furniture, pre mises, and stock were injured. In one room in par• ticular the fire had been more destructive than in any other part of the premises. The room was ten feet long by seven feet wide, and contained a quantity of furniture, consisting of tables, chairs, carpets, looking glasses, two watches, Bank of England notes, articles of jewellery, feather beds, and pictures, amongst which last-named was a work of art, entitled " The King of the Teetotallers on horseback." Plaintiff called a man named White, who had been in the habit of making out inventories of loss and damage in such cases, and the report drawn up by that person he furnished to the defendants. In cross-examination of the plaintiff, it was sought to make it appear that be had, previously to the fire, c inveyed away much of his furniture, by night, to a room taken by his daughter--who had previously oc copied the room in question—and that among other articles, the painting of "The King of the Teetotallers on hor,eback," alleged by him to have perished in the fl tmes, was so conveyed away ; but the allegations failed of proof ; and ace irding to the testimony of the plainiiff had their or►gin in slanderous imputations cwt upon him by some of his neighbours, against one of whom he brought au action for damages, which is now pending. The jury retired, and, after an absence of some time, returned ii.to court and gave a verdict for the plain tiff, for the amount of his claim —284/. COURT OF CONIMON PLEAS. ALLEN V. THE CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY COY• PANY.-COLLISION. The plaintiff in this case sought to recover damages for injuries which he had sustained in consequence of a collision which happened upon the Che,ter and Holy head Railway on the 10th of May last, and the dam ages were laid at 4,0001. - The plaintiff isa young man of respectable connexions, and is nephew of Mr Brewster, formerly the Attori.ey- General for Ireland, but at the time of the aecid,nt he was a traveling clerk in the service of the P. st-office. It was his outy to travel with the mails between Chest:A . and Holyhe.td, and to attend to the sorting of the letters upon the journey. His salsry was 1001. a-year, but the amongst, aliowed by the office for expenses made his total receipts about 2401. On the night of the 101li of May he left Conway by 11 45 train , a nd when the train arrived within two miles of Bangor, just at the enTrance to a tunnel, the mail ran into a coal train. The collision was violent, and the plaintiff's head was struck against one of the Post-office boxes, :he blow being at the back of the Leal, and just at the ba , e of the brain. H e w a4 aux on; to continue pe o ed his duty, and did continue it. The accident ha p on a Saturday, and on the Monday following he went to a surgeon, w ho certified that the plaintiff had suffered c on cussion of the brain, which at present incapacitated him from mental and bodily exertion, and rendered rest indispensable. The plaintiff, however, thought that the injury was only of a temporary character, and he con. tinned his duties for a day er two. On the 15th he found it absolutely necessary to leave off work, an d h e placed himself under the care of Dr. Gully, o f M alvern, at whose establishment ho remained for many mouths The result of the con cu ss io n of the brain was, that th e spinal cord bad been much affected, and many of its functions had been destroyed, the misery arising from which was so great'as al nost to render life a burden. The negligence imput-A t the comnany was, that only 17 minutes bt-fore the mail train left Cuu way a coal train bad been started from that station. The jury found a verdict for the plaintifF.—Damages) 1,400/. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' COURT. (Before Mr. Comtniesioner Murphy.) THEATRICAL TAY AT WINDSOR CASTLE.-IN RI JAWS ROGERS. This insolvent, a comedian at the Olympic Theatre, who, since his application to the Court, presented 13s. 4d. to the Lambeth Police poor-box, which he had received for performing at Windsor Castle, made his appearance before the learned Commissioner, under the Protection Act. When the case was called no creditor appeared in opposition. _ Mr. Sargood held a brief to support the application. Mr. Comrni3 , inner Murphy inspected the schedule filed by the insolvent, and said "Nell, Mr. Rogers may have his day named." Mr. Sargood inquired of the Registrar the day pointedap for the final order. The Registrar (sir. Clark) said it was appointed for the 13th March. The insolvent obtained his protection to the day men tioned. The schedule filed contains several creditors, whose claims only amount to 1031. 9s. 3d , from the year 1852. In last year his earnings were 1301. His appearance be fore the Court is attributed t the illness and death of his late wife, occasional illness of himself and insuffi ciency of earnings as a comedian. In the description he is stated to be at present engaged at the Olympic Theatre, and his wife as stated to be an actress known as Miss Dormer. His ba!anca•sheet states his salary at 41. a week, and hence the sum of 13s. 4d. for a eight performance at Windsor Castle. THE .1)1 - ST1 - MSS AMONGST THE COAL -IVIIIPPE, 8 OF THE PORT OF LONDON. A deputation of coalwhippers of the port of London, accompanied by Lord R. Grosvenor, M.P., Lord Gode rich, M.P., Rev. J. T. Rowse'', of St. Peter's, Stepney ; Rev. Mr. M'Call, Mr. T. J. Furnival, and Mr. Flynn, had an interview yesterday with Lord Stanley of Alder ley, the President of the Board of Trade, for the put , pose of making known to tile Government the serteus grievances under which they now labour, arising from the withdrawal of the bill which protected them from the cli public-house truck system. The men stated their case. Some years since the Government, in order to better the conditian of the coal whippers, and to secure them from the vice and misery attending the public-house agency, establishe I an office from which they were employed, and which secured to thew the full amount of their earnings. Some of the coal merchants became dissatisfied with the working of the office, and when the proposal for re ne4ing the bill creating the office came on in the ordinary course last session, they asked the Government wit co continue it, but to allow them to establish a new model office, from which they would engage the men. The coalowners and merchants signed a document that they would protect the men from being employed through a public-house, or in any way exposed to that system ; and upon that understanding the bill was withdrawn, and the merchants left to establish the office. It has been several months in operation, and the men assert it to have proved an utter failure as regards preventing the work going to public-houses, and that the old drink ing system was rapidly reviving. That when the new office was created th e r e were 123 gangs of nine men in each gang, with 40 supernumeraries. The number of gangs had since been reduced to 85, and the men dismissed must either go into the workhouse, or accept the public house employment, with all its debauchery and misery to their families. That a large portion of the men con nected with the office were often without work, and when they were occupied their wages at times did not exceed 9s. a-week. It was stated as a fact that a large - proportion of colliers in the Pool were discharged through public-houses, and that the number was daily increasing. It was also asserted that two of the merchants who had signed the document only to employ men through the office had broken their promise by engaging hands through another channel. They added that the renewal of the old bill would supply a remedy for this state of things. Lard R. Grosvenor, the Rev. Mr. Rowsell, and the Rev. Mr. M'Call, addressed some few remarks to his lordship as to the condition of the men. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said the position of the men, as had been represented to him, appeared certainty very hard. He would cause some inquiry to be made into matters which had been submitted to him, and perhaps the men would also prosecute their inquiry for facts. Mr. FLYNN said poor labourers with only 9s, a-week had some difficulty in paying waterage to go out on the river and collect " fact-,," and the names aud number of ships discharged by publicans. The deputation then withdrew. CountrygiMarkets. EDINBURGH HAY AND STRAW BIA.RILET FEB. 17. Supplies of all kinds these last six days again large• Oat straw, from 8s 01 to lOs 6d per kemple of 16 stones tron; wheat do., 6s Od to 8s 6d; barley do., 7s OA. to 86 Od. Hay from 12d to is. 2d. EDINBURGH MEAL—FEB. 17. There were in the market to-day 12 sacks oatmeal, each weighing 2301 b imp,:rial, which sold at 37s and —a. DALKEITH MEAL . I.IARKET—FEu 16. There were in the market to-day 6 bags of oatmeal, oof barleymeal, and 0 pot barley. Sales dull. Oatmeal, per sack of 2801bs First. Second. imperial Barleymeal, per ditto -s Od —s Od Peasemeal, per ditto Flour, new, per ditto —a Od —a Od Pot-barley, new, per ditto —s Od a Od 'Third. 8 oa -5 Oa — 9 oa --S BRISTOL SUGAR—FEB. 18. Beyond the sale of three cargoes of Mauritius and one of Havainah aft :at, at very full prices, we have nothing to report. The brokers' offices are quite bare of samples, And further arrivals are anxiously looked for. DUBLIN, FEE.I7. White wheat, 31s 61 to 343 6d ; red ditto, 318 Od to 3 25 6d; ditto new, —s ; barley, malting, 16s to 253 Gd ; grind:, ing, 15s t o 20 3 6d ; oats, old, Its to 13s ; ditto, new, --"" 01 to 153 0d ; oatmeal, 143 to 15s 03; bore, new, 16s to 1 85 01 ; r toes d, 303 01 to 32s 01 per brl ; bliters' flour, 19 3 64 to 26s 01 per cwt; Indian corn, 31s 01 to 378 Od 480 Ibs. COAL MARK ET.—FEB. 18. the ClOBO of the market. Prices of Coal per ton at 8. d. Bates's West Hartley l3 0 Bebside's Hartley 14 6 Bell's Primrose l2 6 Howard's West Hartley Netherton 15 0 Longridge's Wst Hartley 14 6 _ _ . Wallsend, &o. 1 . s d• Fletton l7 south Hetton . 17 a Lambton l7 a Poneber_ l5 6 Chester Main 15 Hough Hall 15 9 Russell's Hetton l6 6 rees l7 6 Stewart's l7 6 South Kelloe 16 6 Hartlepool Hetton l6 6 Riddell l5 0 flarton . 15 3 North Percy Hartley l3 0 Tanfield Moor l3 9 Tanfield Moor Butes 13 9 Walker Primrose ...13 0 West Riding Hartley...l2 9 Davison's West Hartley 15 3 Wallsend, Ste. Eden Main ..16 3, Ships at market...l2 Hilda Braddyll . l6 6 Sold 6B LOCAL SHARE MARKET& LIVERPOOL, FEB. 18. - - STOCK EXCHANGE.—The market was steady to-day , at a considerable advance upon the rates of yesterday. Eastern Counties, 101. is. 3J.—Lancashire and Yorkshire , i—Caledonian, 324 32i 3 38—North Britieh, 101. lls. 3d.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincoln, 3517—East Lancashire shares, 6 per cent., 81. 13s. W.—Ditto pref., I.sth shares, 5 per cent., 5 3—North Eastern, Berwick, 218—South Eastern, 22 83 —Lancaster and Preston, .1 shares, 201—London and North Westerr, 104—Ditto, halves, new, ,} dis.—Buffalo and Lake Huron, le pm.—Luxembourg Con., 10i dis.—Sheffield 6 per cent., 128. BIRTHS. OP A EOM On the 17th inst., at Westbourne•street, Hyde-park gardons, the wife of the Rev. R. W. Browne. On the 17th inst., at Honterton, the wife of David Craven, Esq. OF A DAUGHTER. On the 16th inst., at Ayott St. Lawrence, Lady Emil,' Cavendish. On wife th o at 1, L e i ns t er-gardens, Hyde-par k, the Lawrence henry Winckworth. elfSlihr. Lawrence MARRIE D. On the 18th inst., at the Royal Bavarian Chapel, St. James's, George Frderick, second son of the late John Meredith, Esq., of Harborne, near Birmingham, to Eliza, on ly daughter of Wm. Scholefield, Esq., 31. P. On the 18th inst., at St. George's, Hanover-square, Lieutenant-Colonel A. C. Bentinck, 7th Dragoon Guards, to Miss Elizabeth Sophia, the eldest daughter of Sir St• Vincent and the lion. Lady Whitshed. DI ED. On the 16th inst., Theophilus Russell Buckworth, Esq. , of Cockley Cley Hall, Norfolk, aged 62. On the lith inst., at Cheltenham, Mary Stirling, wif of Jr. Stirling Donald, Esq. On the 15th inst., at Forestville, near Nottinghal 32, Samuel Whitehead, Esq., aged 83. On the 16th inst., at Star Cross, Miss Bean, aged 79. On the 16th inst., Victor Louis Chemery, Esq., aged 49. Oa the 16th inst., at Brighton, Anne Brummell, widow of the late Wm. Brummell, Esq., of Wivenhoe-houses co. Essex, aqed 7‘.4. On the 16th inst., 'at Margate, Margaret, widow of the late Captain Thomas Hillas, 6th Dragoon Guards, of Porchester-terrace, Bayswater, aged 77. On the 15th inst., at Walsall, Henry Rutter, E!cl. , aged 76. LONDON : Printed and Published by MIIRDO YOUNO, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Mee, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the coon ty of Middlesex, Thursday, February 19, UV.