The Sun. — London, England, 1806-01-28 00:00:00

• .4 . 0f parr , F. No.man' could contradit themerits that 'ere rev arcs d, and therefre it is, that according tg t he . pr, die of all countries, such services are most parsicule s ly clistinguished. And this led to another isonsiden tito; namely, that unanimity is necessary. And how was‘that to be hdped for, after a long po s litical.life ?.ixpept the single instance that had been stated as a precedent, not an instance of this kind was to be met with in the . FlistoryOf' this Country; and yet many men had distinguished themselves.by long, faithful, able, and meritorious services. Look at another case :—the .exercise of , great and trans eendent talents, long direated to the service of the Country, are more deserving out of office than in office. The possession of a high and important office is a - powerful incitement to zeal, activity; and exertion. The presumptibn, if any, must therefore be .favourable to talents out of 'office - without such incitement. He would ask, then, whether any individual had -ever possessed more un limited-and transcendent talents; or had more perse- Veringly, .or successfully, directed those talents to the service of his Country, than an individual, 'who must be in the reeolleation of them all, and to. whom no, such honours had been granted'? he meant the late Mr. Burke. What man had ever more sublime talents, or unbounded knowledge and' • ' capacity, where charaater for wisdom, disinter estedness, and political virtue, ever stood higher? ! ffear !)—Liere were various parts of his political cohduat, opon which, as in the present in stance, some hifficulties might have prevailed ; and te begged to know why those, who think it neces- Aary now to grant these honours, did not consent to grant them then I)id they mean to say that there was any difference in the : circumstance of being iii or 'Out of office ? If the- indiViduals were compared, they would be found to have the same abilities, the , same long devotion to the service of their Country. He begged of the Gentlemen who supported this . Motion to analyse their opinion, and then to judge of.the motives of those who opposed 'therm They objeated in the former instance that the grant was not desirable because it could not be carried with unanimity ; and what, he asked, was such a_ grant without unanimity ? The objection was, thatthey could not comply without a fear of implicating them selves in all the political opinions of the party ho 'floured, if they should consent to vote the obje& of the present Motion an excellent Statesman. He had disagreed with that Right Honotirable Gentleman, when the French Revolution had broken up the European system, and had separated irom his earliest connexions. Whether he had been right or wrong in - so doing, was not now of any consequence, though Ire could not omit stating, under a due consideration, that he still thought he acted right under the cir cumstances. What he thought of those circum stances now was no matter .o be dwelt upon. It sn 4D isbi however, be urged against him, thac.he had • • agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman since the 'French Revolution, and ought not to Oppose the Mo- ; tion. This he should meet by dividing the 'Whole of , .the Right Hon. Gentleman's political life into two periods : one antecedent to the. French Revolution,, the other subsequent to it, and abide by either. flit here he deprecated being placed in a situation of declaring any opinion that may be contradiatory to ,the opinions of those ScOnnexions for which he 'lad the most ..sincere resped: With every re spea for the talents, and • every • admiraiion for the abilities of the Right HOnourable Gentleman, 11 he were asked whether they had been use fully employed for the Country, he should , say 'No, not even in that part of his administration that had occurred since the French Revolution. He had not condu&ed that great cause' like a great man. He had not concluded it like a skilful Minister, with a view to its express objeds.—(A . ay _of question ! question !)—lt was not his fault that he touched lapon those topics, but the fault of those who had, brought forward the Motion. His opposition' sio it rested on broad grounds. This Was not d time for entering into any inquiry, when the lamented indi vidual was clad in his shroud. Bat these honours, •if granted, would be contrary to hikorical truth, at such an unexampled and dangerous period, to pass a vote of such unqualified approbation on twenty years of administration, that had brought the Coun try to such a perilous state. If they agreed to the Motion, they should give up the faith of History, which would no longer present a magazine -of useful knowledge—a store-house of pradical truth and experience. He had stated the principles upon which he should vote to be, that he did ' not think the whole of the Right Honourable - Gentleman's administration useffil for the Coun try, and so thinking, he could not avoid declaring. it, and voting accordingly. But when Gentle men rested their ,support of the Motion on the pros-. perity of the Country, he could not help hxclaiming, God have mercy on us, if our . present state were prosperity! If we were to ,go in this state, he did not know how long it may last. When lie compared the state of the Country now with what it had been twenty years since, he saw no reason to rejoice: He thought, for these reasons, that the rewards. ought • to be withheld, as only great merit, accompanied by success,. was entitled to them. No such rewards had been decreed to the immortal Nelson, and ano ther gallant Officer, not now a Member of the House, Cir Thomas Troubridge, for their conduct at Tene rife, where they displayed the greatest heroism and devotion to their Country's cause, because success bad not crowned their enterprise. He called upon the House not to mislead those of the present day, by agreeing to vote these honours, or to weaken the truth of history. • For his own part he should oppose the Motion, as if he were to do otherwise he should never cease to reproach himself for it. Mr. R. RYDER could riot refrain from expressing the utmost astonishment at what he had just heard. The Right Hon. .Gentleman, at the most critical pe riod of Mr. Pitt's Administration, had been in onion with him ; lie had been a sharer in his councils ; he bad fought hand and hand with him those battles Which saved the Constitution, and, indeed, by the successful issue of which, in that Hon. Gentleman's own opinion, the_Constitution had been preserved ; and now, forgetting all former friendship, forgetting those considerations which ought peculiarly to have • influenced him, he took a part in this discussion Which he honestly believed no man in the House Could possibly anticipate from him. The Right Hon. Gentleman had shewn a degree. of Spartan virtue, • whicls, he confessed, excited his adMiration ; he had evinced an heroic disregard of : every natural and every moral feelings; but for the sake of the happi- \k\ teas ofthe world, he trusted that this' Condo& would operate rather as a warning to oth*rs than nn example to be followed.. The Right Hon. Gentleman affealed to doubt the meaning of the proposition before the House. For himself, lie thought that it had been sufficiently explained. It left the question of the condo& of Administration during the last.six months completely untouched for the future consideration of the House. It was not the stupendous ability of the illustrious 'character whom he so deeply lamented it was not the purity of his moral charmer; it was not the confidence whie s 4 he, enjoyed both in Parlia ment and in the Country at large; it was not even the space which he occupied in the:age of the world, that was the inducement to.the present Motion ; it was the use, the practical benefit which this nation had derived from him : the question was, whether, on a revisal of his whole life and charaaer, he was not amply entitled to the honour which it was DOW' proposed to pay to his memory ? Mr. G. PONSONI3Y felt most sensibly the dis advantage under which any man laboured whO rope for the purpose of opposing a Motion which sprung froth the most generous feelings. However Gentle men may live in difference on general and ,political subjects; all 'must wish that the animosities proceed ing froin such differences might be buried in the grave. Were this a question as to the private, elm rafter, the moral virtues, or the good intentions of Mr. Pitt, he should not hesitate in giving it his hearty concurrence ; but the question was,• whether the House of Commons, by its vote, should sanc tion and immortalize, as far as a vote of that House could immortalie, Mr. Pitt's 'system of AdminiStra tion. 'So far from entertaining any wish that that* system should be- immortalized, it • was his most ardent .desire that it should be interred with the chief impeller pf it. It was by no means LiS in iention to scrutinize the particular parts of Mr. .Pitt's .conduet : this would be an ungracious task: But when the House were,. called upon to vote the highest honours that were , in their power to bestow, as Representatives of the People, they were bound first .to feel a- conviction, that the system of Administration and Government, to the head of which those honours were to be assign ed, had been, on the whole, a beneficial syStem. , He did not deiign to enter minutely "into the situation of England on the day when Mr. Pitt en tered on office, and contrast it with its situation on the day of his death ; but this .he would say, th 4 . - Europe, and even England, stood in very different .relative situations towards France at the commence ment and at the conclusion of -Mr. Pitt's Admini stration. If we took a retrospeCtive view of the His tory of Great Britain, and fixed our attention more particularly on those periods in which her glory shone with peculiar lustre, we should find, that tho very persons and things which had been the most intimately connected with that glory, bad been the greatest sufferers during *the administration of .Mr. Pitt. The Prince of Orange, from whose fa; mily this Country had received the security of her liberties in 088, had been expelled from Holland; 'and the Brunswick Family, to whom this Country .was indebted for: her preSent line of Monarchs, had, through the,ssme means, irrecoverably lost Hanover. If a desire to serve the Country were assiened as a 'sufficient reason for coining, to the proposed Vote, :.he.adrisitted that he had no doubt such a desire ope rated strongly in Mr. Pitt's mind ; it was not the failure, in intention, but too fsilure of judgement, that ' he condemned. Taleasts, however brilliant, after the death of tile possessor of them, do not entitle his 'remains to public honours unless he has been suc- That this is an acknowledged position, may ,be easily seep by a reference' to ttie history of the •Contitry. What man ever poisesSed greater talent than Lord SOMERS ? As a Statesman and a Lawyer no one hadscontributed more to raise the glory, and to fix the laws andliberti6s, of his country ; yet af terhis death no public honours had been decreed to him. Lord GODOLPHIN was one of the greatest Statesmen this nation ever produced, and his admi nistration had conduced more perhaps than any other to diminish•the power of France; yet to his memory no public honours had been voted. 'Of the merits ofArchbishop TILLOTSON it was difficult to speak in terms sufficiently encomiastic. This pious and venerable Prelate, although many years at the head of the Chorch, did not, at his decease, leave money enough to 'defray the expellees of his funeral ; yet .the Country, although (if he might be allowed the expression) he was unable to bury himself, did not 'think proper to bury him. , That private virtues alone Wereinsurficient in their claim to public honours, .was,evioced in Mr. PELHAM, who had likewise the merit of considerably redncing the public debt, and /et, notwithstanding he died in possession of office; his death' was succeeded by no Motion of a nature similar to the•present: Private virtues, good inten tions, and splendid talents, were therefore indisputa bly pot eilaugh. 'With regard to the illus 7 trious Lord ChamaSi, to Whose memory those houours had been assigned, he had certainly rendered to the -Country the most brilliant and solid services. It was not his wish to enter into any invidious comparisons, but he would just ask the House to recollect what was the relative situation of Great Britain and France at the conclusion of the. Peace of 1763, and com pare it with their relative. situations at the Peace of Amiens, or with their probable relative situation at the period when Peace might be once more expected. Unless success had rendered all men unanimous in • their opinion of a Minister, no House of Parliament was justified in rendering to his memory the honours now demanded. He could not but think that the .Hon. Gentleman who brought 'forward this Motion had, in the warmth 'of his feelings, done so without refle6tion. He had forgot that during such a long Administration as that of Mr. PITT'S, great dif ferences of opinion must necessarily exist, and that the men who had honourably and conscientiously opposed the system on which he acted, could not possibly be expected to give their votes for immor talizing that system. For himself, if be were to vote in favour of the present Motion, he should di really contradiEt every vote that he had given for many years. For these reasons he felt himself under tiara painful necessity of refusing his assent to the Motion. . ROSE was aware, that at no time was he en titled to occupy much of the attention of the House; his feelings on the present occasion incapacitated him still more from trespassing long on their time. He con fessed be had entertained a hope, that the Resolution proposed by his Honourable Friend would have been , adopted without difficulty, and with unanimity.— When, in the year 177.0, a similar Resolution bad 'been proposed, with respea to they ustrious Lora Chatham, it was assented to by the ekiSting Admi nistration, notwithstanding that Noble Lnid tad been 'tine of their trt:est violent opponents, and had re viled them in. the strongest terms, accusing them of the grossest weakness, and the basest treachery. - Great Statesmen might certainly differ on questions of great importance, but :Or his Own part, he should consider Mr. Pitt entitled to the appellation of an excellent Statesman, eyed did he believe that he had been guilty of occasional errors. The Noble Lard had stated as a ground of his opposition, that Mr. Pitt bad, found the Country in a prosperous state, and had left it in - a ruinous one. Without -any wish to pro voke.a diseussiOn-on this point, he would ask, at the time that Mr. Pitt came. into office, what was the situation of the Country ? He found it at the end of a most ruinous War, its Commerce annihilated, its Navy considerably impaired. What were:the con sequences of his efforts ? .During the period of his administration, our resources had. been doubled, our manufadures had been doubled, our - seamen had been doubled; our shipping had been doubled. The funds, at the period alluded to, were much lower than they are now, after .thirteen years war. The revenue was then barely equalAo theinterest of the debt, and. the national expenditure was annually in creasing that.debt. The contrast in this particular was too obvious to demand illustration. That Mr. Pitt had --imposed. great burdens was., very true ; that he had discovered extraordinary resources was as true. The question was not, whether the present War had been well or ill 'concluded.; he was sorry to hear, this mentioned on the other side, because he earnestly desired i!)n this • Motion unanimity. His Hotionr ' able :Friend. had taken his .Resolation as he found it recorded on the Journals of the house. He bad not altered an iota of the terms id which the similar ,otte on the death of Lord Chatham, which was acceded to by the Administration of that day, had been conceived. He could not, therefore, with justice be accused of purposely bringingefor ward any thing in which Gentlemen opposite might find it diffieult to acquiesce.: .With respell. to the illustrious charaaer who was the lamented object of ~the presentMotiou, he would only say of him, that he had e)ihausted his. life in serving his Couotry to the best of his great abilities, for it was no exagger ation to say, that the. gallant Admiral who had lately closed' his brilliant career, by filling in the arms of victory, did noz more decidedly lose his life in the service of his Country than Mt. Pitt; his anxiety far his Country had destrOyed him It was Well known to those who were in the room ‘'hen that great man expired, that the last words he uttered Were,- ".0h ! my Country." The Motion before the Hotise bound no Gentleman to . an approbation of any pirticular ad of Mr. Pitt's - AdinthiAntion; much leSs to the measures of the last six months. It - Went_ Only, to assert what was admitted in every corner of Eng land and Europe, that Mr. Pitt - was, an excellent Statesman, and that his loss was irreparable-It> the Country. Mr. FOX declared, that sae aici not - Fee ollea ever having risen in that House with more painftil.sea4a tiOns than at .the present moment. Before he en tered on an explanation - of the motives that induced him to give the vote, on the present question which it-was his intention to. do, he should say something on what was hinted about party considerations. In OPposing the 'present Motion, he . cerfiiiill — did aside all party considerations—he even.aded contrary to all party considerations. He did not mean to undervalue party considerations ; 'be -had- always thought that what was called party, well,dndersTOO - A, was the best mode of serving the Country ; but he contended; that on this occasion all party consi derations concurred in tempting him to refrain from the step which he should nevertheless adopt. .It must be evident to the House, that in the present situation of domestic affairs, it was his interest to conciliate those who were immediately connea ed with the great man whom he most sincerely lamented—motives of personal respea for those to whom he alluded combined to render the task he had prescribed to himself irksome. In a party view it was peculiarly irksome, because existing circumstances rendered it highly probable, that, -for the remainder of his political life, he should be inseparaoly connected with those whose opinions he should this night oppose. With regard to the object., of the present Motion (Mr. Pitt) he had been called, and he felt it an honour to be so called, his rival ; but he . declared, that, during the whole course of their long political difference, he was not sensible of having once opposed him on any personal motive. He was most ready to, allow, that Mr. Pitt was certainly a great man, and for many of his qualities he had the highest .respect. He would not now enter into any particular state ments of the consequences of his odious ; but from the establishment of the Sinking Fund, for in:- -stance, the Country had derived considerable benefit. Indeed, before his political animosity to Air. Pitt was extinguished by death, he had asserted in that House, that with respea to purity of charaaer in pecuniary concerns he believed no Minister ever deserved greater praise. He was extremely sorry to hear that the circumstances in which Mr. Pitt died ,fully proved this. He had been Minister for twenty years without extravagance, and with the means of obtaining great pecuniary advantages. There., verse, however, was the case, and nothing could more clearly evince his pure and disinterested motives. Jr. was remarkable that during the whole of that time, the Wardenship of the Cinque Ports (he wished that he could say that of the way in which, according to the reports of the day, it had been since given) was entitled to as much praise. Every motive of pri vate feeling, he repeated, concurred with. his disposi tion to conciliate those whom he respedled, by voting on the other side of the question. He might gain the applause of :...odour and generosity by so doing— be might gain advantages in a party view of the sub jeet. All this he sacrificed, without any apparent -compensation. There were cases in which,,, under any circumstances, however distressing,. or hOWever seductive, a man must inflexibly do his duty ; and in his conscience, he belieVed this to be one of those cases. if, in consequence of what he had before mentioned of Mr. Perfs private Whirs, his rela. fiat's had been left in a situation of embarrassment, and it had been proposed to remove this incon venience, such a MuLion he would cheerfully have seconded and supported-; but when called on to vote such distinguished honours, he could not forget, that 1215 duty was not to be com plimented .away. 01 4.11., the important trusts that b etotiged to the Honed, he knew hot dt sacred than the Powc;e,'of deer etng pi ltc honeurs. He'cOuld poi 'be induced, even by the guarded Manner in .which the Honourable 'Gen tleman introduced his Motion for granting them in, I the preseht instance, 'to accede to it. Piablic ho nours shOuld tatily, be voted frimit fiar precedents and for fatureexample. On this pocnt he Telt 'it ittineceie . -. nary to add One word to what 'had fallen fruhe the 'Honourable Gentleman near him. For Isis, own part, he thought e thiese hoheurs shOuld be chiefly confined, to 'military merit, ',and 'that they should never. be paid to the hitt - on-dilate. 'No one would pretend to say that . Mr. Pitt bud not rendered sonic services to the Country ; but it was his general system that was to be considered. When we. look at the inscription on the tomb of Chat"- ham, we feel that the increase of the power of. Great Britain, and the reduaitin of her rivals during that illustrious man's Administration, fully justify it; but every one who has the slightest political perspi cuity must be convinced, that at the present moment the prospects of Great Britain are seriously alarming: The cases, therefore, are not parallel. They Avilt not admit of comparison.. At the time when public honours were decreed to the. memory of Lord Chatham, there was a complete unanimity of opi nion on his merits. He should betray his trust werelie in any case to vote public honours without ample grounds for so doing; yet there were cases in which seek a vote would be produilive of less inju rious eifeas than in others. In this present case, hd was not inclined -to look at any particular aote but, be would maintain, as he had always maintained, that there had been an unfortunate system of Uo-. vernment throughdat the present reign, which might' truly be. elhiraelerizel''as the cause of all the misfortunes that 'had accompanied it., When we consider the various and 'extraordinary losses that -the Country had experienced elis waseevi dent. If, on .the death of Lord Guildthrd, with all his affedion for him, and for his son, who was now also -no more ; if such a Motion as the present had been made, he should haVe felt it his duty to op pose it. What that system to which he alluded was owing, it-would be irrelevant here to discuSse it had been generally productive of the most lamentable consequences. Unfortunately, Mr. Pitt, by the lustreof his brilliant and splendid talents, veitel in some degree that odious deformity \tibia woald otherwise have been 'conspicuous.. Whatever desire he might feehto commit to oblivion all recolleaions Of political animosities between himself and Mr. Pitt, he could , not, .consistently • with :his duty as a MeMber -of that House, give publiietestimony, by giving public honours, to the memory of a man whose political system and principles bad everrap pcared to him in the most unfavourable Mr. Fox said -he repeated it ; he defied any. Man. so to Misrepresent or pervert the sentiments which-he had expressed,- as to suppose that they proceeded' from any motives of private policy, prudent or dire Ct. He was heartily:sorry .that the• Haim Gentleman had not delayed- his. Motion. • He certainly could not expe6t that the Hon. Gentleman ,would.hve consulted him on the subjea ; but had be consulted f thoie with whom Mr. Pitt Aras connected' in blood end affee tionS, he was. convinced that a way might have been -struck out of paying-a just tribute to his memory -without Violation of the :feelings ofeany one. This ,was; however, now too" late. As the Motion steeLl, be felt himself compelled by duty, and by ditty-alone, to give it hisenost.decided negative. •Leed .CASTLEREAG'ITI observed, that he, should trouble the House very shortly, as he would cau tiously abstain from touching on any of those untie pessary subje&s which had been introduced into the Debate. He gave full credit to the .honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, for the manner to which he had stated his objeCtions to the proposed Motioe ; he had certainly expressed himself not with the intemperate warmth ofa :hostile adyersary, but with the calm moderation of a generous rival. He was. likewise fully sensible of the value of the support of the Noble Lord opposite. Were the ground on which the present Motion rested a minute examination of the different measures of the illustri ous character who was -the objea of it, he knew no man more qualified to enter- into this examination than he who was close to him in blood and closer to him in affe&ion. But it was not oe these- general grOunds that the Motion rested ;- it was on the intui tive feeling in the House and-in the Nation, that that great charaCter had been eminently serviceable to his Country. If this feeling did not already exist in the hearts of those who heard him, it was impossible, in such a discussion as the present, to argue it into them. .Such a task would he hopeless, even were it undertaken by an individual much, less humble and partial than himself. The Hon. Gentleman had asserted, that it was not safe -to trust the House with the power of conferring such honours, except on military merit ; thiS would be true, if such ho nours* were frequently conferred, . or, if they were conferred, except in cases where the splendour of the character unquestionably deserved them, of which cases this was one. • He •perfealy agreed with the ' Hon. Gentleman, ' that rif they could be perverted into a gratuity for past privateservices,,or an induce ment to fueure, the fldjudication of them ought not to be hazarded with the Fitlse. For the.. gallant Admiral, who had. lately. B distinguished himself so brilliantly, and whose loss. the Country, had to de- Ohre, he felt great admiration ; admiration perhaps not so warm as that by which he was inspired on the recolleCtion of his lamented Friend Mr. Pitt, because perhaps he had not equal means of acquaintance and intimacy with the Noble Viscount he alluded to • but admiration certainly as sincere.---7Heregretted, diere fore,. extremely, that the charaaers of these two great men had.been placed in competitioe-He. com parison unnecessary and Unfair, on account of the very dissimilar points by which they were marked. He could 'not agree with the -Honourable Gentleman, that any part of the traesaaions of the life of his la e mented.friend deserved the epithet of unfortunate. With regard to the recent events on the Continent, no man deplored them more deeply than himself. He deprecated the idea, that any individual who voted for th e Motion of to-night pledged himself to acquiesce in -the propiety of the transaaions which had led to 'those events. Those important transactions, and the great sacrifices which the Countryhad made during them, must undergo a full and complete examination.-=- This, however, he could not refrain from declaring, that as far as he. knew of those transAio - es, the condua of Mr. - Pitt on the occasion, v..as one of the mast splendid efferts that ever emaeated e fiem the