The Sun. — London, England, 1847-04-13 00:00:00

ob tained th e t i t l e of Captain, be was entitled to rank with the C olonels of the other regiments. It was against this system that he (Mr. William) entered his protest eese protest that was of double force in the present cir cumstances of the country. Captain PECHELL referred to the naval force at present employed on the coast of Africa, for the sup pression o f the slave trade, which was alleged to he combined with the American and the French navies, for that purpose, and thought that it was extraordinary, to say the least of it, that no documents had been laid before the House, to show how this object was carried out, and whether any irregularities had arisen from joint captures by the three countries. Considering the arduous duties, and the fearful risk of life which the officers and men on that station had to undergo, he could not conceal his indignation at the wholesale sysh m of plunder which was pursued by the Admiralty Court, at the Cape, w h en called upon to adjudicate upon the prize- Money which was due to them—the produce of the captured slave vessels. He found that in a recent case of this kind, a slave ship, the Diana, captured by one of her Majesty's ships, sold for 5591. From this sum 2731. 17s. was deducted by the Admiralty Court, leaving the captor s on l y f or t h e i r share 2851. 3s. The Hon. and Gallant Member instanced other cases of the same kind. Ile called on the Secretary of the Admiralty to see to these things, and to put matters in such a train that justi .e would be done to those men who risked their lives an their country's service, on this pestilential coast. Mr. WARD said that with respect to the first obser vation of the Hon. and Gallant Member, no joint cap tures had Net been made by the ships of the three nations employed on the coast of Africa, and as re garded the system pursued by the Vice-Admiralty Court at the Cape, he could assure the Hon. and Gallant Me mber, and his assertion would be borne out by his Hon. and Gallant Friend beside him, that no complaints bad reached this country of mismanagement in the busi ness of these Courts. It was the desire of the Govern ment that every precaution should be adopted to preserve the health of the officers and men employed on the coast of Africa, and for that purpose steamers were employed for the purpose of entering and exploring the rivers, and such preventatives, against the influence of the climate as 'experience dictated, had been adopted. He could assure the Hon. and Gallant Member that the circumstances 'which he had brought under the notice of the House should have the utmost attention from the Government. SUPPLY. The House then went into Committee. Mr. WARD said, that after the lengthened observa tions which had been made that nignf, and the discus sion which had already taken place on the naval estimates, he did not intend to occupy their time, but would con tent himself by simply moving the remaining votes. On the motion that 42,2704 be granted for the wages of artificers and labourers employed in do...lyards abroad, Mr. WILLIAMS said it appeared to him that the naval department of the public service required more looking into than any other, and seeing the great increase from year to year, he had looked into the estimates for the last fourteen years, and found that in the course of that time the sum of 22,800,0004 had been expended in the dockyards, including the building and repairin g ships, and purchas e o f stores. The country ought to be satis fied as to what had become of these enormous sums. The Hon. Member then referred to a letter which ap peared yesterday in the columns of a morning paper, signed J. Ryder Burton—an officer of judgment and ex perience, pointing out that unless the Admiralty arrested the progress of the ships now building, it would be found that they would be totally unfit to maintain their position as blockading ships, or fight their guns in bad weather, with a heavy sea; and complained that the Government persevered in building those ships, notwithstanding the evidence they had received on the subject from naval and scientific men. He had thought it necessary to make these remarks; but he confessed he had no hope of being able to procure a reduction in the estimate this year. Lord INGESTRIE must also add a hope that here after these estimates would be as much as possible eco nomised consistent with the due maintenance of the effi ciency of the service. He was rejoiced to see that the Admiralty had improved the sytem of promotion in the dock-yards, and he sincerely trusted the Admiralty would not relax their efforts to encourage and advance the naval architecture of the country. He should be glad to hear from some Member of the Admiralty what was doing with that class of ships known as the Albion class? A variety of experiments had recently been made with respect to the merits of different ships, and he had never seen the report made by Admiral Sir H. Parker on the first experimental squadron. He thought it of the greatest importance that all the information that could be obtained on these points should be laid before the House. His position was that there were scien tific men available at the present moment who were able to build better ships than the present surveyors. It was certain that the steam vessels built by the present sur veyors were very defective in their construction. A Committee had been appointed in 1844 to investigate the merits of the different ships in the navy and he wished to know if that analysis, which be believed had been a careful one, would be laid before the House. He hoped some tribu nal would be established by which real merit would be encouraged. As the first maritime nation in the world, they ought to have the best navy in the world, and this could only be done by calling into requisition the scien tific resources of the nation. Before he sat down, he wished to know if any ships had been sent to make a survey of the coast of New Zealand ? Mr. WARD said it would be to no purpose to expect anything like an unanimous opinion with respect to the merits of the Albion class of vessels. There was as much diversity of opinion with regard to shipbuilding, as there was with regard to religion ; and the partisans of each system were quite es zealous in the propagetion of their views, as the adherents of each re ligious sect. In reply to the Hon. Member's question, he would say that he did not know that there was any intention of the Admiralty of establishing the screw principle. He felt very much obliged to the Hon. Member for his suggestions, many of which had proved most valuable.—(Hear, hear.) Sir C. NAPIER was very glad that the House had at last opened its eyes, for he had been endeavouring to do so for the last five years. He did think that it was a disgrace to the Admiralty to permit such vessels to be used as the Albion and Aboukir, which rolled tremen dously, so that under a small weight of canvass they could not fight their guns. Now, the three deckers which were at present on the stocks, it was fair to presume, would roll equally if they were built upon the plen of the surveyor's report. For the last fifty years, all the vessels in the navy had been built upon the plan of one or two persons, whether that was right or wrong. The surveyor should only report upon the timber and iron in the ships, and the shipwrights in the different ports should be allowed to construct vessels upon their own plans, and they would have better vessels, as they would have a competition between them.—(Elear, hear.) He did not allude to steam vessels, as he had gone over that part of the service so often that he would not trouble the House again—but if thew wanted the return, of the expenses of the Queen's yacht they would be per fectly astounded. They were tremendous. Yet in spite of them they would have to give a new one, and he would vote for it, as in her present one she had to get up on a chair to look out of the windows. The vote was then agreed to. The next vote was 1,536,4981. for the expenses con tingent upon maritime stores. Mr. HUME said that a great amount of money had been wasted upon the construction of vessels. He con sidered that an enquiry was absolutely necessary. Such an officer as Sir Wm. Symonds ought to be removed, as, since he came into office, 10,000,000/. had been expended upon vessels, and not one good one had been turned out. For fifteen years this system of misrule had been carried on, and he wanted the Government to declare what they meant to do in redressing these matters. If the Hon. and Gallant Admiral (Sir C. Napier) would take the sense of the House on the question, the would certainly vote with him on it. If he judged aright of the reports which had been made to the Admiralty, they all con demned, in toto, the system pursued by Sir W. Symonds. Now, what he wanted the Government to do, was to pro duce these reports to the House, and then it would be seen what was really the truth. It was said that there had not been a single ship turned out by Sir W. Symonds but what had cost one-fourth of her original expense in altering and improving her, to make her fit for service. Captain BERKELEY did not rise to defend the Ad miralty generally, but he rose to defend Sir William Symonds from the attacks made upon him. Lie would call the attention of the House to the fact, that both during the late, as well as the present Admiralty, the greatest compliment had been paid that gentleman for the ships he had constructed. It had been said that he bad turned out no good ships, but, in answer to that, he would point out the Vernon and Cleopatra, two of the finest ever launched. Lord INGESTRE thought there were many things in the navy that required full inquiry into, and in order to do so, a Committee ought to be appointed. But it should be a full and searching inquiry, that all the facts might be brought out. Sir C. NAPIER said he would move, in place of the sum proposed by the Government, as an amendment, that it be 1,500,0001. In doing so, he would remark that in his observations he confined himself to Sir Wil liam Symond's line of battle ships alone, and not to his small vessels or frigates, to which he had paid bat little attention. Captain PECHELL defended Sir Wm. Symonds from the attacks made upon him. During the American war they endured the greatest mortification, because their ships did not equal in sailing qualities the ships of their opponents. But now, thanks to Sir W. Symonds, their navy was wonderfully improved in this particular. Let them compare them with the French navy. Why, Prince de Joinville, in his report, declared that even a smart breeze paralysed half the guns of their three deckers, and this could scarcely be alleged against the British ships. He did not know what was the ob ject of the G allant Admiral in this amendment, but he (Captain Pechell) for one, would not vote against the ropes or the canvass, or any other of the naval stores, merely because he wished to pass some censure on Sir William Symonds. While on this subject he would wish to know what the Government intended to do with a very valuable invention by a gentleman (Mr. Jeffrey) for the caulking of ships ? It was a most useful discovery, and one calculated to save a very great sum to Govern ment. Mr. WARD said that the marine glue had given very great aatisfaction, and he hoped that it would receive the favourable consideration of the House at some future period. Sir C. NAPIER said that lion. Gentlemen seemed to consider that his amendment was intended as a sort of censure on Sir W. Symonds. He intended it for no thing of the kind. All he desired was, to express his disapprobation of the manner in which the public • stores had been wasted for years past. He had cer tainly expressed hi_ , opiniou.of Sir William Synaonds mode of building ships of the line, but he bad done so Candidly and openly. He would not on this occasion I put the House to the trouble of dividing, if the Secre tary to the Admiralty would give the House some hope that a Committee would be afterwards appointed to exa mine into this subject. Mr. WARD could not give any hope of the kind. If the evil existed to which the Gallant Admiral re ferred, the present Board of Admiralty would endea vour to remedy it, but he saw no necessity for a Com mittee, and he could hold out no promise that such would be appointed. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 559,6001. for new works, improvements, and repairs in naval stations was agreed to. The sum of 22 . 839/. for medical stores, was also agreed to. The sum of 59,8471. for miscellaneous services was agreed to. On the vote of 725,788/. to defray the charge of the half-pay of officers of the navy and marines, Mr. HUME objected to the system of promotion. Eie thought that no favour whatever should be ex hibited, but that merit alone should be the passport to promotion. Admiral DUNDAS defended the course the Govern ment adopted, and maintained that they had adhered to former precedents. Captain PECIIELL complained that the masters on board of her Majesty's vessels were not properly con sidered. Although they ranked with a lieutenant, they were subordinate to each of the lieutenants, and in case of the death or accidental removal of one of the lieu tenants, a midshipman would be chosen to supply his place in the room of any of the masters. Mr. CRAVEN BERKELEY Laid, that he acknow ledged the utility and the claims of the masters, but he thought that the sphere which they then occupied, was the best calculated for the display of their powers, The highest ranks in the service were still open to them. After a few words from Captain GORDON and Admiral DIINDAB. Sir CHARLES NAPIER said that he could not agree with his Gallant Friend the Member for Glou cester, for he thought that the masters were not in their proper sphere. They were liable to be under the command of a mere boy, whose knowledge in the service could net be compared for a moment with theirs. He could mention many instances, in which younger and less experienced individuals had been promoted over the heads of old officers of this description. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 486,4471. to defray the charges of military pensions, was then agreed to ; also, a vote of 153,4581 for civil pensions. The following votes were also agreed to:— A vote of 243,2021., to defray the expense of tran sports and the conveyance of troops and stores. A vote of 21,674/., to defray the expenses of main taining and conveying convicts. A vote of 564,3771, for the packet service and Post office expenses. The House then resumed, and Mr. GREENE reported progress. ARMY SERVICE BILL. The report of the Army Service Bill was brought up and received, and ordered to be read a third time on Thursday next. HARBOURS, DOCKS, AND PIERS CLAUSES BILL. This Bill was read a third time, and passed. REGISTERING BIRTHS (SCOTLAND) BILL. Captain GORDON trusted the Lord Advocate would postpone the Registering Births, &c. (Scotland) Bill. The Bill was postponed. EXCHEQUER BILLS (18,310,700/.) BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow, (this day). PORTLAND HARBOUR OF REFUGE, &c., BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. PAYMENTS OF RATES AND TAXES BY ELECTORS. Sir DE LACY EVANS moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the regulation of the payments of rates and taxes by Parliamentary electors. —Granted. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter past One o'clock. HOW EVIL SHOULD BE TURNED INTO BLESSINGS. —We have already said that our towns ought to be looked upon as so many gigantic farmsteads ; that they should, in fact, bear the same relation to the surrounding country which the farm-yard does to the farm. Is it not strange that this obvious ana logy should have so long escaped notice ? and that when the proposition is announced, it should sound strange in our ears? But so it does, and will continue to do, till we condescend to pay more attention than we have hitherto done to the merely physical part of man's com pound nature. This body—what is it but a furnace of flesh in which, as in other animal bodies, the watery parts of our food are evaporated, the charcoal burned away, and the ashes discharged ?—the products of combus tion going to reinforce the ocean of aerial manure, the ashes to be used or wasted as man in his wisdom or loll) shall decree. That which passes into the air cannot but be put to its proper use. Nature, who wastes nothing takes care of that; but man, foolish man! misunderstand ing the intent of providence in endowing those ashes with offensive properties, treats them as mere waste, and is but too happy if he can see them blackening the pure stream in their way to the ocean. Or, not content with merely wasting that which ought to be most scru pulously saved, he adds to the sin of extravagance the greater crime of so'disposing of these ashes, that they become the prolific source of disease. Thus, that which should be the material of food for the support of man's life, is converted into an active poison for its destruction. —People's Journal. THE DUKE'S STATUE AS THE COMMITTEE DESIRED IT.—The consummation of the Committee's hopes (the removal of the scaffolding, and a waste of a little more money), seems likely, if anything in this world can do so, to open their eyes, so long wilfully blinded. Every spar th a t i s taken down makes the monstrous disproportion of statue to arch, the former being looked at as a part of the latter, more evident, and the height and i mpropriety of the arch as a pedestal merely, if it is to be so considered, more glaring. The proceedings here have been so discreditable to us as a nation, in an artistical point of view, that we blush when reflecting on them. How much longer the farce is to be played seems uncertain. It must be much more to the amusement of neighbouring nations than ourselves.— The Builder. BARRA, SOUTH UIST, AND BENDEC UL A. —We learn from a private source, that a stringent but neces sary measure is to be adopted with respect to the poor on the estates of Colonel Gordon, of Cluny, in the West Highlands. The Board of Supervision for the poor, in Edinburgh, are in course of appointing a commissioner to proceed to the islands of Barra, South Uist, and Ben becula, for the purpose of taking cognisance of the state of the inhabitants. His object will be to place upon the poor's roll such persons as are entitled to temporary or permanent relief, and along with the commissioner will be sent a supply of meal and provisions for distribution among the paupers. The supplies judged necessary by the commissioner arid the additional burden imposed by the operation of the poor-law will be laid upon the pro prietor. According to the statute the commissioner in such cases must be a member of the Scottish bar, and we have no doubt a gentleman will be selected who will arbitrate fairly between the owner and the people of those islands—between the duties and the rights of pro perty.—lnverness Courier. MYSTERIOUS DEATH.--MANC HESTER, APRIL 10. —This morning, about six o'clock, a respectably dressed man was found in the drain or sewer at the side of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, near the Weast-lane station, quite dead. In his left hand was found a third class ticket, from which it appeared that the deceased was booke:l at Liverpool for Manchester, and must have left by the third-class train, which leaves Liverpool at half-past six P.M. The only way in which this accident can be accounted for is, that the deceased must have jumped out of the carriage before the train stopped at the Weast-lane station, or that he was drunk and fell out. The latter, however, is improbable, as some of his fellow-passengers must have noticed such an event, wifo'r does not appear to have been the case. ACCIDENT AT TWICKENHAM.—On Saturday after noon Mr. Wakley, M.P., coroner, held an inquest at the Prince Blucher Arms, Twickenham-common, on the body of Frederick Nicklewright, aged 50 years, bailiff to Sir William Clay, Bart., MP. From the evidence it appeared that the deceased hail been in the service of Sir William Clay for the last twenty years. About four years ago bir William Clay purchased the property known as Fulwell Lodge, Twickenham, which consisted of the mills and a farm. The mills were subsequently let, and Sir William Clay placed on the farm a thresh ing machine, which was worked by the water-wheel of the mills. On the morning of Thursday last the de ceased went to the premises to set the machine in mo tion, and was drawn therein, and before assistance could be rendered him he was almost literally torn into pieces. The only person present at the time was a boy of the name of Brenchley, who hastened for assistance, which was promptly obtained, but not in time to save de ceased's life. When extricated the body presented a most frightful appearance, the head being completely severed from the body, the heart, liver, and lungs liter ally torn out, and the legs and thighs broken. The evi dence clearly showing that no person was to blame but the deceased himself, the jury returned a verdict of " Accidental death." INCRLASB IN THE PRICE OF PROVISIONS.—A con siderable advance has taken place within the last week in the retail prices of butcher's meat, bacon, pork, &c., althougt no visible increase can be perceived in the prices obtained in the wholesale markets. In Clare-market, Newport- market, Oxford-street, and the vicinities, New cut, and Lambeth- walk, the prices usually asked and obtained are as follows:—Breasts and necks of mutton, 6d. to 64d. per lb.; shoulders, 6id.; legs, 7d. to 7id. per lb., being an advance of a penny, and in some instances lid. in the lb. Beef has advanced a penny in the lb., and a similar increase has taken place in dairy-fed and Berwick pork; the rise in bacon is lid. per lb. American provisions have also advanced in price, the only article remaining stationary being cheese. The prices of vegetables, particularly potatoes, parsnips, carrots, and turnips, have so much increased, that it is an impossi bility for the poorer classes to purchase; potatoes sell at lid. to 3d. per lb.; those at 2d are scarcely edible, and, in consequence of the quantity obliged to be cut away, the price is increased to nearly sd. per lb. ROYAL COLLEGE OF SURGEONS. — The following gentlemen having undergone the m cessary examinations for the diplomas of this College, were admitted members at the last meeting of the Court of Examiners, viz.:— Messrs. Ernest Powell Wilkins, Newport, Isle of Wight ; Edward Lund, London ; Charles Jones Gihb, Newcastle-upon• Tyne ; Richard Jones, Brackley, Nor thamptonshire ; Claude Mackechnie, St. Kitt's, West Indies ; Wm. Edward Hayman, Judd-street, Brunswick square; Richard Budd Painter, 13roudway,Westminster; John Hanston Prosser, Clonmel; and Walter Battershell Gill, Leominster, Here: ,- . , rdbbir.. At the same meeting Mr. John Gallagher, a member of the Edinburgh Col lege, passed his examination for naval surgeon. NATIONAL EDUCATION. SPECIAL MEETING OF THE COMMON COUNCIL. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31. After the transaction of the ordinary business, Mr. FRANCIS BENNOCH rose and taid, it wes now his duty and his privilege to introduce to that Honour tilA Court a motion of surpassing Interest—one which related to a matter in which was involved the happiness of millions, and the success and the continued prosperity he believed, of the Empire. The motion had been oe the business paper for a considerable period; but he had been prevented by various matters from brinein , earlier forward. Had this not been the case, the ik)r poration of London might have, ere this, uiscussed ctu great question of education, which was now agitatini. the public mind, instead of discussing it at a perioi when some of the effects which might have been derived from such a discussion might have been lost. This was to be attributed to certain unhappy circumstances to which he could not further allude, because they were well known, and duly appreciated by the member, o the Court. But it was a great gratification to know that, in discussing the question of education, they could approach it deliberately and consider it calmly, withou; agitation of an obnoxious character, and without any 0 , those feelings which would prevent them from doing ful: justice to the question. The motion which he had to pro pose was:--"'That the state of education in Grea' Britain and Ireland is confessedly deficient and lament ably defective. That the existence of so much ignoranc, is a reproach to the nation, and greatly to be deplored; inasmuch, as poverty, destitution, misery, and crime are. if not the consequence of it, seldom found dissociatec from it. As the means hitherto employed for th; increase of knowledge among the people havt proved insufficient for the necessities of the popu , lotion, the assistance of the State becomes an imperative necessity.—(Cheers.) It is not onl, an act of justice and mercy, but also to the interes!, safety, and security of society, that no subject with ii these realms should longer continue without the oppor tunity of mental enlightenment, as a means of moral elevation and mental improvement. That an hunabl, address, based upon the foregoing considerations, be presented to her Majesty the Queen, praying that she will be graciously pleased to exercise ever 3 legitimate influence vested in the Crown to urge forward in Parliameat such measures as than pro vide for the general education of the people." The motion partook more of the nature of a petition than of an ordinary motion, and somewhat argued th( question. He had so worded it in order that no one might attend without being perfectly confident o' the whole of the arguments, which he should feel it his duty to make. With him it was no new queAticn, as it was one which he had discussed and debated on all fitting opportunities during the last 12 or 15 years-- nay, more, he was instrumental, and in fact responsibl; for a course of lectures which were delivered in London ten ye ars, by a gentleman who was at that time one o the most popular writers on the subject. He was glad be was enabled to bring four or five Peers, and twelve or fif teen Members of Parliament to listen to them ; but h, had to regret that he was unable to interest the then Lon Lord Mayor on the subject of the promotion of educe• tion. He wrote and waited upon him; but he woulc neither countenance by his presence, nor patronis, with his name, the series of lectures on t:tis impor• tent subject; believing, as be said, that they were in tended "for the promulgation of some unimportant sub. ject some new fangled doctrine likely to disturt the public peace and the safety of society."—(Name, name.) He would tell them. He alluded to Alder man Wilson. From that time he confessed that hi , heretofore profound reverence for the Lord Mayor and de Court of Aldermen began to diminish ; but his opinion:. had of late years been much modified, and there wee; many who had filled the high office of mayor for whom, he entertained much respect. But to come to the sub ject of education. The necessity for education was, le believed, conceded.—(llear.) There had been a demand for education almost since the first existence of society They recollected the saying of one whom they all reve rented—" Go and teach all nations." It was the firs; law of nature, for even the brutes must be tutored be fore they could perform their daily tasks. Thus savag, man i❑ his turn must yield before civilised man. and a civilised man was only produced educ ition. Were man a mere animal, he would requir; littl education, because his instinct would be sufficient t; provide for him his daily food, as that would be all le would require. But he _ was _ gifted with intellectu? qualities, the power and knowledge of judging and c discussing, added to which was his moral nature, whict controlled the other qu tlities, which, without it aid, might prove injurious. Therefore it was eviden that any education which did not embrace the (lc velop meat of these three qualities, was inferior as a scheme o national education. The labourer in the fields re• quired probably the least education, but stil he required education, because it was a knowledge of the instruments he wielded which gave him power over the soil he digs ; it was education that taught the higher man gifted with a greater intellect the way t, produce the most intricate machinery—to have edutAtioi, was all• important—because it gave him his peculiarly distinguishing feature. Thus in every stage of life i demonstrated the ne'essity for education. By it the early lispings of childhood are invested with intelligence Through boyhood that intelligence becomes expanded. until in manhood, the student can draw from the wells o the knowledge which exalteth, and in his retirement hold sweet communion with the rays of antiquity, whose spirits are enshrined in books, and this surely is one of the highest prerogatives of man. The motion which he had Vl* honour to propose divided itself into three parts—first the deficiency of education, next the defectiveness o. education, and lastly the consequences of this deficiency and defectiveness, and the necessity for the adoption o some different system. He intended to compress his facts and arguments into the smallest compass consistent with the magnitude and importance of the subject. To prove the deficiency of education, lit should refer to reports, and other documents of unques tionable data. In 1833 he found that the population o: this country was 14,400,000—that there were 3,600,00 t. of the population between the ages of five and fifteen— that there were 1,200,000 day-scholars between thos( ages, 2,400,000 attending no day-school—that 1,548,000 attended Sunday-schools, 548,000 only being in tin habit of attending day-schools. The result came to this that out of that number, 1,000,000 :were Sunday-school scholars, 1,200,000 day, and that 1,400,000 were in total ignoraiice, without an a t om o f e d ucat i on . Th us a b ove one-third went to day-schools; less than one-third t, Sunday schools, and over one-third to no school at all More than one-third of all the children of this vas; empire, between the ages of five and fifteen, are without any means of education whatever 7.--( Hear, hear.) Bu the reports published in 1844, proved that the state o education, at that time, was worse rather than better That was, the general character of education. Th , particular character was somewhat more remarkable. It his estimation, statistics proved everything ; but soul were of opinion that anything might be proved 1)1 statistics ; but here they were undoubted as they wee( collected by parties employed by the Government, and by educational societies ; the results thus collecte: demonstrated, that instead of showing the darkest silt of the picture, the actual state of things, previous e these inquiries, had been much underrated. In Man chester, there were 50,000 children between five anc fifteen, 10,000 of whom attended day schools, 23,00( Sunday, and 17,000 attended no school at all. Salford was the same. Liverpool was worse, as fully one-hal were without the means of education. Hull, York, and Bristol presented the same results, and were al' equally bad. The lion. and Rev. Baptist Noel, whop everybody respected, telt so much interest in the sub ject, that he made a private inspection of severs, schools, in order to ascertain whether the Government reports were, or were not, correct, and he found that no exaggeration had taken place, and that thk state of education was as had been represented. Mr. Bennoch read a number of other extracts, showink the same result. By a report made by Lord Kerry, ii appeared that there were 2 664 parishes and hamlets, wholly destitute of schools ; 1,042 possessed Sunday. but no day, schools, making a total of 3,706 without day-school of any description.—(Shame.) It was a palpable shame that such a state of things should be allowed to exist. With respect to many of the rural als e i might to o mp p ai li districts, from a return published by the Registrai titrhimantaidmoitneyslLosnraeornhgeahpl that Gen married etrahil Registrar- General, i could a t r a o p s p alg a f n r r o e t m d h e timidity—(Laughter)—as in such a situation were apt to get exceedingly nervous ; but why they should be timid and nervous in the most honourable act of their whole lives, be was wholly at a loss to know.—(Laughter.) It also ap peared that 8,000,000 of the population could not write, and that 5,000,000 could not read. Then, with respect to the schoolmaster. It had been shown and proved by competent authorities, that the care of the rising generation was, in the majority of cases, confided to the care of those who had failed m all other pursuits ; and that the schoolmaster was the lowest, instead of being the highest and most respected occupation in the kingdom.—(Hear.) The greatest number of schools in the large towns were these day and dame schools, but from certain reports which had been published, they would perceive how monstrously defective was the system of education pursued in them. He found extracts from these reports collected in an excellent article on education in the last number of the British Quarterly Review. With respect to those schools he found a report of the Hon. and Rev. B. Noel, stating that— "ln Liverpool, with few exceptions, the dame schools are dark and confined; many are damp and dirty; more than one-half of them are used as dwelling, dormitory, and school-room, accomodating, in many cases, families of seven or eight persons. Above forty of them are cellars. "In Manchester, the greater part of them are kept by females, but some by old men, whose only qualification for this employment seems their unfitness for any other. Many of these teachers are engaged at the same time in some other employment, such as shopkeeping, sewing, washing, &c., which renders any regular instruction among their scholars absolutely impossible. Indeed, neither parents nor teachers seemed to consider this as the principal object in sending the children to these schools, but generally say that they go there in order to be taken care of, and to be out of the way at home." And with respect to common schools:— "It was a room on the ground-floor, up a dark and narrow entry, and about twelve feet square. Here forty-three boys and girls were assembled, of all ages, from five to fifteen. Patches of paper were pasted over the broken panes of the one small window, before which also sat the master, inter cepting the few rays of light which would otherwise have crept into the gloom. Although it was in August, the win dow was closed, and a fire added to the animal heat, which radiated from every part of the crowded chamber. In front of the fire,- and as near to it as a joint on the spit, a row of children sat, with their faces towards the master and their backs to the furnace. By this living screen, the master, though still perspiring copiously, was some*hat sheltered from the intolerable heat. As another measure of relief amidst the oppression of the steam ing atmosphere, he had also laid aside his coat." This was a perfect sample of them all. But let them look at the condition of the National and British Schools — The great majority of the patrons and conductors of the THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 13, 1847. I National and Lancastrian schools which I visited, only pro , fess to teach the children reading, writing, and arithmetic. The knowledge of th e E ng li s h l an guage, natural history, geography, physiology, and the history of their country, are all excluded subjects. Upon none of those could I examine the ehildren generally, because their teachers professed the tots egnorance of the children respecting them. If occa• donally I heard that Liverpool was an island, that Lance hire was one of the great towns of England, and that Asia and America were chief countries of Europe, I was led to -xpect this if I heard such grammatical inaccuracies as those contained in the following answers to questions put by me Them as is good goes to heaven The men as Was gazing up into heaven'---' He drownded the whole world ;' these were mistakes which the teacher did not undertake to correct." In these schools the scholars were poor and they round that they went to them ignorant and from the want of a proper system of training, that their evil dispositions were developed by association, and that they were frequently led into the commission of crime, 14 the little knowledge they were taught, was just ;efficient by association to induce them to commit depredations. It would be almost superfluous in him in that Court to refer to the .vils which arose from a want of education, but his Lordship and the gentlemen of the Court of Aldermen .mho had held the office of sheriff; had, in that capacity, and as magistrates, been in the habit of visiting the crimi nals of the metropolis, and had no doubt found that Ignorance and wretchedness and crime went hand in land. The judges referred to it; and Mr. Sergeant Idams came forward with his monthly report lamenting the amount of juvenile crime, and his inability to remedy ,he evil. This belonged more properly to the question ;f juvenile crime than to education ; but still it was necessary that he • should refer to .gnorance and crime, as they formed a part ,E hi s reso l ut i on. In the valuable report of the British Foreign School Society for 1845, he found that one - third ,f the cr i m i na l s of Berkshire could not read, that Cam idge and Stafford (and some of the aldermen were connected with Stafford), one half could not read; in Denbigh two-thirds were in a similar condition, and that he half of those of Essex (one of the Council was connected with Essex) were totally ignorant. In Elereforcl, out of 385, cnly one could read well, and in Sussex (one of those delicious sequestered agricultural listricts), out of 877, 141 did not know their Saviour's name, 498 knew it and no more, and then only in eon 3exion with an oath; 179 had only a confused lotion of his history, and only 1 in 14, or 59, had he faintest glimmer of the Christian faith. They ')ad tried punishments of various kinds, in order to Teter persons from the commission of crime, but they had ignally failed, and he hoped that they would now take more religious means, by the aid of education, to improve the condition of those unhappy persons. As a proof of how much more expensive the punishment of crime was than is prevention, he might refer to the fact lately stated by the magistrates of Liverpool, that they selected at random 14 criminals, whose ages varied from 9 to 14, whose ag• .;•regate commitments amounted to 133 times, or 9} times .ach, and who had cost the country 889/. 18.-889/. Is. 'or punishing 14 criminals, or between 70/. and 801. each, shereas by a properly organised system of education, ,he common interest of the money would have educated ;0 ur 40 children.—(Loud cheers.) This money was pent in punishing, not in reclaiming, because they had •ach been repeatedly punished. Then the question trose, would education deter from crime?—(Hear, hear.) , Vas education the cause of crime, or was its want the 3ause? The argument that men of education had be tome criminals was no reason against the education of he people. He granted that such things had happened, mt.still thatdid not prove that it was not the duty of every aan—the duty of the nation —to give every man the neans of advancing himself in the world. Because a ma was born poor was that any reason why he should not rise in the social scale, that he should not have the means )f elevating himself ? He contended that the most hi eartant means to that end was education. But how was his to be done ? We see the necessity, but we are over •ome by the difficulties which surround it. Could they overcome it by voluntary contributions which some people considered the great panacea for the ignorance of the she people? Two opinions prevailed —one that it was ,ufficient, and the other that it was not. But if Volun aryism was sufficient, how was it that one-third of the .opuletion were in Cimmerian darkness. Certainly if it was sufficient they must have sadly neglected their duty. Voluntaryism was a beautiful system, but what did it to ? It certainly contributed largely in various ways; ,at the voluntaryism of the State was far more impor ant; for aid by the State was but another form •f contributing money from the same source. Voluntaryism did not punish criminals, it did not fight heir battles, it did not provide for the poor. When it lid all these things, then he should consider that volun aryism would be enabled to educate the people.—(Cneers.) !'here were probably many gentlemen in that Court, "ho had not had any large sums of money expended Ipon their education.—(Hear.) Yet there were many vho was without education, so far as the school nester was concerned, listening and taking a part 11 the discussion of this great question. Thus several who had been thus situated had become .eprescntatives of the City of London ; but had theyre named totally ignorant, they would not have been called . ;o fill so honourable a post. Was th ere a man t h ere who could not read and write ?—(Yes.) Some gentle nan said yes, but he never had the misfortune to meet ith one who was so ignorant. Should any such be ,resent now, their support I am sure to have ; and should .here be those (as I know there are) who have only .eceived the merest rudiments of education, yet by inremitting zeal and rectitude have become members of his court—their support I confidently expect, because tone can feel so keenly, or know so truly, ner describe ;o forcibly, the sleepless nights, the perplexities, the .truggles of uneducated intellect striving under every tisadvantage to assert its power, and the difficulty in seizing the opportunity calculated to lift bins to a oiperior station in society, all of which a 'ittle more judicious training would have ren lered comparatively easy. He could not under stand any means that could be brought to promote edu ation efficiently without the assistance of the State. :;ould the State educate. was one question, and how edu !ate was the next. He could prove that the State :ould educ a t e . E ven despotic nations b a d s h own that hey could e d ucate their people ; but a f ree country wssessed an a ddi t i onal advantage, as it could educate .nd conso lid ate its power. In Germany and Prussia .ducation was compulsory. In America it was not so ; gut it was made very attractive. In America it was stated as a general rule, that in the those States, in vhich education was promoted by the Govern pl nent, th a t t h e most was done by the people ; old that " w h erever the Governmen t ex t en d e d elucation th at the people were found anxious to wail th emse l ves of it;p where there now is little or no egislative e ff ort the amount of instruct i on i s as sma ll is was co mpat ib le with any d e gree of diffusion of know edge." Th at fact showed more forcibly that the aid of ,he Government was required than anything he could irge if h e were to speak for a month. Those states tsset states:— ta:eisai:n— -e, vhich did not receive much aid were excee di ng l y e . norant. I n N ew York educat i on w as progr es si ng avourably, as o ne -f ourth of the popu l a tion was receiving nstruction. Th e f o ll owing was t h e s tate of educatio n is l t l il a : sa variouschi New York - 1 pupil to 3 . 9 inhabitants. Con-1 to 4 necticut New England - 1 to 5 Pennsylvania, New Jersey - 1 to 8 Illinois - to 13 Kentucky 1 to 21 For a man to have a child growing up without ;cling to school, was considered the greatest scandal ..hat could attach to him. But if all he had stated was done in America, why could .t not be done in England?—(Hear, hear.) It was said mere that the assistance of the State would do away with the independence of the people. Was it more lestructive to independence to look to the State for education, than to feel that we depended upon private ;county or public charity for it ? Many of those who were educated :charitable institutions, found that a 'rind of stigma attached to them which often lasted to he day of their deaths. He was reproached with it. 1' he State, therefore, was the proper and only means, )y• whose aid a national system of education ould be carried out, and the State was now lesirous to do it.—(gear.) Ho regretted that one of he greatest obstacles raised to the scheme was religion. Religious difficulties were the only obstacles now placed n the way of the Government.—(Hear.) The Episcopal Church would have no education, unless it was placed upon or supported by religion. The Dissenters would mve no State support, and other seats opposed it for 'Millar reasons ; so that between them all the nation would suffer, unless the Government had the determina tion to go fully and fairly into the question, in defiance of such opposition as that with which they were me. naced. The flowing tide would be stayed, if not rolled backwards for fifty years. Could it be for the interest of religion that a scheme in which the happiness of the rising gene ration was involved should be destroyed ? It could not be. Perhaps the best system to adopt would be a system of perfectly secular education, making the parents responsible for the religious instruction of their children, not that he was opposed to any system of religious edu cation, but he was anxious to obtain knowledge for the people almost on any terms.—(Cheers ) No I • compu - sion by the State could make a person change his reli gion. A remarkable instance of the tenacity with which persons adhered to the religion of their forefathers was to be found in th© last report on education in Ireland. Several children of Roman Catholic parents were educated i n a Protestant school, and in the Pro testant religion; but when they left they went back again to the Roman Catholic faith. He thought he had maintained the principles which he enunciated at the commencement of his address, and that the scheme of the Government was likely to prove most ad vantageous —it was the best and most cor,prehensive that could have been adopted in his opi nion under the circum stances—(Hear, bear)—and a considerable degree of excitement had been occasioned with respect to it. He thought there had been a considerable degree of cal • crude, hasty, unreasonable amines, cast upon it. If he bad any objection at all to the Government plan, it was this—that it did not go far enough. But h e w i s h e d to have it tested as proposed , and no doubt the experi ence which would be obtained Would enable them - t materially improve it. Some said that it was unconsti tutional, but he was at a loss to know what could be un constitutional i n giving the representatives of the people —their representatives—tbe control of education. Then it was said to be sectarian. How could it be sectarian, when it supported alike every religious belief:, and every religious denomination ? If it applied only to the Established Church, it might be called sectarian, and it would deserve the same character if it applied to the dissenters alone; but as it applied to one sect as much as to another, he thought it was ab ou t th e best scheme that could be adopted. "But it is inquisi torial," said a third party. Why? Wherever public money was applied to a pu— h 1; -0 purpose, there must be public inspection. Private charities privately ad ministered, were too frequently seats of cor ruption; and public money, if privately expended, might be expended improperly, and diverted to corrupt purposes; but here Government inspection would keep the fountain clear and prevent any mis appropriation for the future. But another party ob jected to it, on the ground of centralisation—centralisa tion the bane of Europe, the curse of France, and the misery of the civilised world. Centralisation wielded by a despot was unquestionably bad, as he might attempt to curb the will and thoughts of his subject ; but centrali sation in the British Government was centralisation, in point of fact, in the people themselves, for in the case of these schools, inspection would tend to keep tie admi nistration of the funds pure and just, and compel those intrusted with them, and to whom they were paid to do their duty. With centralisation, if abuses crept into the administration of the funds, they would be immediately known at head quarters, and the person whe had misconducted himself would be at once super seded. To his mind a centralisation of this kind pos sessed much beauty, and formed ono of the most im portant principles in the Government plan. Another great advantage was the the establishment of Normal schools, because by their aid they would be enabled to do away with that obnoxious class to which he had referred, who, without requisite knowledge, pretend to teach the children of the poor ; and in their place they would have men with young blood in their veins, anxious for the work and determined to perform it thoroughly, and not halt. They would get rid of the half stupid, lame, blind, and frequently immoral old men and women, who had set themselves up as teachers —(Hear.) Besides, they would know, if they discharged their dutiel properly, that their old age would be spent in comfort. Much had been urged against the plan which the Government had proposed for the support of the schoolmasters when they relinquished that employment ; but it was most important that a teacher should know that he would not be allowed to die from starvation when his faculties failed him. Then again, he consi dered that instead of the whole scheme enabling the Government to tyrannise over the people, that it would have a directly contrary effect, and would place a great deal more power in the hands of the people.—(Cheers.) The highest class would at the proper time receive their due reward as teachers, whilst the second class pupils would become important public functionaries. Thug, in stead of Government situations being bestowed upon those who had no claim to the gratitude of their country, they would be given to those who had earned aright to hold them. It was, as he had said, a very important matter that the teachers of this country should take their proper position, as he considered the teacher was more entitled to respect than the warrior whose conquests over foreign nations brought great advantages to this country. The profession of the schoolmaster was higher than the minister of religion, because the success of the subse quent labour of the minister depended much upon the superstructure raised for him to work upon by the schoolmaster. In every point of view be saw great beauty in this scheme of education proposed by the Government. Another important point was, than an educated people were more easily governed than an igno rant people. With education, one might appeal to a man's senses, to his intellect, and to his moral feelings ; but without education one could not appeal to him, save through the influence of mere physical power. Corporal punishment would be the way they could teach him to do his duty, But by education one might appeal to his cultivated faculties, and through them, possibly, soften and re claim. They should then see none of those extraordi nary proceedings, such as took place some thirty years ago in the Midland Counties, where men associated and went about in mobs to break machinery—those mar vellous instruments by which they were now supported —as they thought it would interfere with their indivi dual labour—instead of now looking upon them as they did, as the moat important advantages possessed by this country. Within his own experience he knew at the same period, that serving men in England would not go into the service of a man who kept a thresh ing machine, because they said it took away their labour, and the labour of the neighbourhood. At the same time they could not get a man in Scotland to go to a situation where there was not a thrashing machine—the one class of men, he regretted to say, sunk in ignorance, and the which other he was ,hew desirousasproudtos t a h say, having y m ever the means in meaEnsngof education land should possess. It was this that lave Scotchmen the power of managing business, whilst the labouring men in England and Ireland were compelled to be slaves, not that they had less power, but because they had less knowledge. A singular proof of this was to be found in last week's Examiner : " It is reported OH good authority that a fishing-smack, having been successful in catching fish on the South coast, and sending it up the country, the people from the interior came down, seized the vessel, took the nets out of her, and made a bonfire of them, alleging that if she continued to catch fish at such a rate, there would be none for next year. Forethought is not a common Irish habit; they seldom ex tend their views far beyond the present; and the care for the next years' fish, and choice of present famine rather than trench on it, was the most unlucky and thoroughly Irish commencement of prudence that the mind of man could have conceived." It was probable that whilst he was addressing the coun cil, that there were hundreds of thousands rotting in their gaols who, had the Government in years past faithfully done its duty, would have been gaining an honest liveli hood, adding to their comforts and respectability, and increasing the wealth of the nation. It was indeed a lamentable thought, that much of this arose from the opposition of those who entertained strong religious feel ings on the matter. He could not conceive anything more extraordinary. They had all kinds of benevolent and religious institutions; they had ministers in all parts of the globe,—and each of those so cieties had his support according to his means— but to give a tract to a child, or a bible to a man, with out affording them the means of understanding them, was a gross insult ; it was as bad as binding a man's. eyes and bidding him behold the glory and beauty of the universe.—( Hear.) He trusted that education would be taken as the basis of all endeavours to hu- manise and Christianise the whole country, and that every Englishman would feel that it was a part of his birthright to be educated. It was a melancholy thing to think that religious differences should fetter thought ; but he confidently trusted that that Court would unani mously declare its opinion that no child within these realms should be without mental enlightenment as a means to moral and physical improvement. That was the first motion he had submitted to the Court, and perhaps he might not have discharged his tavk so well as others more experienced would have done.—(Hear, hear.) He had only to add his gratitude for the patience and kindness with which they had listened to him. He concluded by proposing the first clause of his motion, and leaving the remainder of it to be dealt with as tho council might think fit ; and resumed his seat amidst general cheering. Mr. T. WHITE seconded the motion. Ignorance wag, in his belief, the most fertile source of crime. The awful history of prisons proved that indisputably. Of 252,000 persons who were committed to prison in the space of ten years, 229,000 were uninstructed, 1,085 had gone beyond the elementary degree, and 22,000 could merely read and write. It was said that such a fact showed the ignorance of the vicious. He contended that it proved the viciousness of ignorance. The backward- ness of England in educating the population, was a dis grace to the country, and he hailed the Government system as peculiarly calculated to remedy the alarming evils resulting from such neglect. Mr. PEIVTREBB said, that if Mr. Bennoch happened to be longer acquainted with the court, he would have found it to be unnecessary to give so long a lecture upon education—he would have known that the numerous motions made in it for the promo tion of educatien, had been supported most vigo rously and that its members were upon all occasions anxious to have the deficiency supplied. He could not, however, agree in the opinion that the deficiency was as great as had been represented. All experience had shown that the grossest exaggerations had been made. In fact education existed nearly in proportion to the extent of the population.—(Hear, hear.) If gentlemen would take the trouble to enquire they would find that numbers of schools were adapted to the accommodation of more children than attended them. It might be taken as a general rule that parents wished to have their children educated. What then was the reason that their schools were not crowded ? Why because of the poverty which existed. The poor were unable to put clothes on their children suitable to attendance at school. The rate of wages was so low that eve n food could not as h e i s n u r p e l ed and . there That ee such ul d w h i ti e the case h i t n , an E Ta t n w d alias well duty of the Government to effect, if possible, an alteration in the labour market, as infinitely better calculated to benefit the population than their system of education. An improvement in that respect would comprehend the education of children. There was another important effect to be produced by leaving it to the people to educate themselves. He meant the preservation of their inde pendence.—(Hear, hear.) That independence which sprung from the voluntary principle ought to be cherished by every Government. In fact, a little more justice and little less charity were requisite in the treat ment of the poor. Independence, which was the founda tion of all our enjoyments, was perilled by the interfer ence of the Government. Deputy STEVENS was thankful for the educational measure of the Government, and considered that the voluntary principle would not sustain the least injury by its operation. He disapproved of the proposition to go up to the Queen. A privilege to be exercised upon rare occasions, and could not be necessary at a time when Government were evidently doing all they could for the benefit of the people ; but he should most will ingly advocate a petition to the Houses of P ar li ament i n support of the measure which Government had brought forward. Mr. BOWER contended in favour of the Government measure, and said that so much poverty would not be in existence, if there were not an overflow of ignorance; and that the more a man was enlightened the more easily did be shake off all the prejudices by which mind was affected under despotic authority. He hoped the present Administration would be supported in their liberal appropriation of funds, which might under other guidance, be applied to the prosecution of war or other vanities. _ Mr. R. TAYLOR remembered when Lord J. Russell said in the Guildhall, that it was the intention of Go vernment to bring forward a system of education as soon as possible, immense cheering proceeded from the very persons who were now exerting themselves to overthrow the measure.—(Hear, hear.) lie most warmly approved of the whole system to be introduced by the Bill, by which the voluntary principle would be vigo rously supported, and a due inspection would be made into the manner in which the money was expended, by men of first-rate qualifications. He trusted that the Corporation of London, which was distinguished for its love of civil and religious liberty, and which never failed to give of its funds to aid the education of people of all religions, would not hesitate in supporting the Admini• stration in so benevolent an effort to serve the humbler classes. An objection had been taken that the greaten portion of the money, proposed to be advanced by the Government, would go to the Established Church. It was right that such should be the case. Zeal and acti vity would secure the largest share. Th e G overnment were assailed on all sides by petitions got up agains a plan, in carrying out which they deserved the support of the whole of the community, especially of those who were bound, from all previous experience, to support them, but who now opposed them. Mr. Taylor then described the narrow-minded views entertained by the Church of England in former years, and contrasted them with the liberality of opinion now generally ex pressed by that chinch, and abandoned by the old ad vocates of toleration, and concluded amidst loud cheers. Mr. STACEY spoke merely in approbation of the scheme of Government, and was delighted to see 141 r. Taylor at his old work of labouring for the amelioration of the civil and religious condition of mankind.—(Hear.) Mr. B. S. Thrum's, a gentleman of the Church per suasion, rejoiced in advocating the measure of Govern ment, and spoke of the unbounded liberality of those who were at the head of that religicn in educating the poor. Mr. W. LAWRENCE said that if the Government had consented to leave the whole in the hands of the dissenters, not one word would have been heard of this opposition. He then commented upon the good ten dency of the measure in every respect. 1)r. LvNcrt was agreeably surpris' d and delighted at seeing so fine a field day for the sup; ort of education, and so little chance fur those who opi ocd it. lie con sidered that great prai , e was due to her Majesty's Mi nisters for propou n di ng so no bl e a plan fur providing, amidst the unexampled difficulties v, hich surrounded them, the means of a sound moral education for the childr, n of all classes of the community, without reap: Ct to creed, sect, or party.—(Bear, hear.) They pursued the proper course to ensure the happiness and to elevate the condition of the labouring classes. The long and exaggerated sentences which they heard about interfer ence, tyranny, poison, were mere bugbears, mere poetic hyperboli, calculated only to frighten children.—(flear, and laughter.) The present means of teaching the children of the poor, and even of the middle classes, were most defective. Why should a broken down butcher, or baker, find a refuge in the character of schoolmas ter? Why should the dishonest insolvent be encouraged to turn teacher of children upon the failure of his other experiments, and cheat both parent and child with im punity ? That tremendous evil would be corrected by the inspection, without which it was absurd to attempt to carry out any proper system of education. There was no intention to churchify or to proselytise the ris ing generation. On the contrary, the only effect or de sire was to place them in the road to truth and virtue, and to make them useful members of society, whether Protestants or Roman Catholics.---(Hear.) In Prussia there were three millions of children annually taught by the State. America was still more liberal. In Prussia the commercial classes were taught English, French, German, mathematics, physics, history, and geography ; and the education of the poorer classes was proportion. ably enlightened. The statistics cf education submitted to the Court reproved their neglect. In despotic Austria only 34,500/. were expended in forty millions of popu lation. The Government had taken the first step in the right direction. They would impart to all the elements of education which had at the present time become a necessity, without cramming them with knowledge only calculated to make our poor discontented with their condition in life. Arkwright, Watt, Hunter, Faraday, Cuvier, Haydn, Herschel, and a thousand others who had risen from the lower ranks to eminence by perse verance, and who had left by their discoveries in science an imperishable name, and made mankind their debtors, were self taught, or had only the rudiments of education. They were only taught to read and to write. Genius accomplished the rest.—(Hear, hear.) He gloried to see Mr. Richard Taylor, in his advanced years, witness the triumph of the principles which that enlightened veteran had from the earliest period of his life advo cated.—(Cheers.) He gloried, too, to see a Jew rise ill the Court of Common Council, as a member of that body, and an instance of the increasing liberality of the citizens of London, to deliver sentimehts which did honour to the head and to the heart of their new acquisition.—(Cheers.) Mr. WIRE said that all arguments used in favour of the Government measure were grossly fallacious, and all the statistical details were just as fallacious. He con demned the interference of the State as not only wholly unnecessary, but as calculated to strike a blow at the independence of the people about whose education the Government never threw away a thought until they had educated themselves.—(Bear, hear.) It was the object of the Government not to make the people religious, but to keep them in subjection. Mr. Wire, in comparing the population of other countries with those of England, insisted that this country was more intelligent than any other on the face of the earth. id ea of deprecated the of giving to Government functionaries such a super vision as the inspectors were to have, and of their establishing an indefinite influence and patronage, and he contended that the whole plan was part and parcel of the atrecious system of centralisation which was now unfortunately so prevalent. The Court of Common Council met yesterday, and after a lengthened discussion upon the Health of Towns Bill, Mr. BENNOCH then rose and explained that, by a mis take the Court, and not the " debate," was adjourned at the last meeting of the Council. Under these cireurn ,tances, he might go over the ground he had &ready traversed ; but he should not avail himself of that pri vilege, and should merely content himself by moving the resumption of the debate. It was necessary to make this explanation, in order that those who were not present at the last meeting might know exactly how the matter stood. He trusted, how ever, that no gentleman who had addressed the Court on the subject - would do so on this occasion— (Hear, hear ; and oh, oh)—as the adjournment of the Court, and not the " debate," was simply an acci dental circumstance, as the person who prcposed it was favourable to the motion. Mr. WUITE seconded the motion, which was put by the Recorder, and carried. Mr. DE JERSEY rose to oppose the motion. He said during the time he had held a seat in that Court, he had opposed many of the sentiments enunciated by Mr. Wire; but he confessed he agreed with him in his views with respect to the scheme of education, which the Go vernment had proposed. It had been said with respect to manycorporate bodies, that they interfered with mat ters with which they were not called upon to trouble them selves, whilst they neglected their own affairs—they mixed themselves up in political matters, and became as a matter of course political hinges. He, therefore, thought the Corporation had stepped out of its way in this discussion. He fully admitted the necessity of education; but scarcely two men could be found to agree as to the best mode of carrying it out. If the .Hon. Gentleman who moved the adop tion of the resolution, wished to know what the Cor poration had done for education, he might find it in their deeds—as they had voted large sums, year after year, for the promotion of education, and not excluding Roman Catholics and Dissenters froM a participation in the funds. That man who wished to do away with the local management of schools was no friend to civil and religious liberty. The resolution, which was avowedly in favour of the Government plan, asked them to come 'to a decision " that education in Great Britain and Ire land was lamentably deficient ;" but there were " many good and true " men, who considered that the systems of education taught in this country were not deficient. —(Hear, hear.) He wished the two countries had been separated in the resolution, because the people of Ireland, owing to their distressed condition were not so susceptible of education a s th e p eo pl e of this country, as they were " torpid and apathetic." Mr. Bennoch quoted France, America, Prussia, and Belgium as coun tries in which Government schemes of education had been most successful. With respect to France, a gentle man named Nortley stated that about 700,000 children were receiving primary instruction, which he found to be worthless and deficient in morality, and that the schoolmasters were far from skilled in their profession. In America the education was a national thing—a de mocratic system of education—which sas similar to the system which this Government proposed to adopt, but nevertheless America upheld slavery—that he supposed was one of the distinguishing features of the Government plan.—(oh I oh I) America upheld a distinction be tween black and white, and yet they were told to look to America as an example of the success of a Government system of education. They should, how ever, look to the result. Then tho mover objected to the voluntary system. Why, what had it done? Look at the tens of thousands—he might say the mil lions who had been educated and were now being edu cated by voluntary aid! All the great measures which had been adopted in this country were indebted to vo luntarism. The Corn-laws which were once upheld by the House of Commons, were abrogated through the voluntaty exertions of individuals. Mr. BENNOCII denied that be did; he was in favour of the voluntary system, conjoined with aid from the State. Mr. DE JERSEY could point to numberless instances in which voluntary exertions had accomplished great results. Why, the Bible and Missionary Societies had done more for education at home and abroad than the Government could do, with all its machinery, in the next half century. From the official report of a gentleman with respect to the state of the prisoners confined in Parkhurst, he found this result stated with respect to 900 prisoners ; that one might be apt to imagine that out of that number there would not be more than 100 who had received any education, but what would they say if the very reverse was the ease, and that not more than thirty bad not received any education, and that the rest had—the great porportion of them in Sunday schools. • That all this crime was solely owing to igno rance, was in his (Mr. de Jersey's) opinion a fallacy. Then, was education to be compulsory or not ? Mr. Bennoch's resolution might be taken both ways. To make it compulsory, would be monstrous. 'Why, the Dor setshire labourer with Bs. or 9s. a week, who had n a d s h o a o lf-a- s dozen' children, would tell them th fi a e t l h d e s. cou r ld ov n e o r t ty aff w o a rd s to sendthey couldth e m e s k eh e o p o ls,toaesetsheiny the e ust go to work as the root of all this, and they must feed and clothe th e poor, before they could thi n k of educating them. Let them begin at the b eg i nn i ng, and not ad opt laws which could not by any pmibilitY be carried ou t. I t was n h o is t ch j i u l s d t r i e ce n, wthenoffheer poorco auld man ed uca ti on f or But on th e o th er h and, if .t w no e t send them t o sc h oo l. l could state as a f act, that whi ls t an e i n n It o m t e c n o sme proportion not, e si•nt th e i r c hil dren to school, a and would not if t h ey could. One school num ber ao in Manchester, for instance, Ns anted scholars, whilst in London he had endeavoured to get scholars for a school in his neigh bourhood, but he had not succeeded. Something in the shape of inducement was required ; but if the Dorset shire l a b ourer cou l d not send his children to school, the Government would not hesitate to tax him for the edtt ' ration of others : that was not the justice which the people of this country had a right to expect. There was not It body of Dissenters throughout the country who bad not a school, and they had done far more for educa don than the Chureh, who, finding their system failing ' now sought the aid of the State ; but Dr. Hook was of opinion that the Church should educate the children of its members. He denied the correctness of the doctrine, that "if education was good for one, it was good for ail." Why, where would they stop ?—(A voice, "Nowhere at all.") Would they carry the higher branches of educa tion to the plough tail ? because, if the principle were admitted, all must be placed on an equal footing with respect to education. They could not draw a line of de marcation.—(Cheers.) It was a most dangerous doctrine. when so many prejudices prevailed as there did vat the question of education, it would be almost impossible to carry out one general scheme ; and if the Dissenters did not avail themselves of it, they would be t. zed for its support. The members of the Church, and not the great mass of the people, would he benefited by it. The Church eon:pia:red that the buttresses which supported it were being removed one by one ; but, in his opinion, this scheme would add another to the fabric and strensthen it. The speaker then referred to the For law, but he was called to order, and some remarks, of a rather personal nature, followed, between several of the members. Mr. LAWRENCE who had rather ha.tily exclaimed "Question 1 Q lestion !" claimed a right t o do so when he thought a speaker bad said enough, and cammenced trespassing on the time of the Council. In the Hoose of Commons, the cry of " Question " frequently eetsled the tun stion.—( Laughter.) Ai other GEserhystsits obgcrved that those in favour of the proposition must submit to such observations if they thought proper to introduce such glaring motions. After some lits le scrimovy, Mr. DE JERS.EY proceeded to say tkat despotism was prevented by local influence, and that the Governinert :sated improperly when it sought to mime polise those local interesta, He was opposed to Puy system of education which would prevent 'len, as the Government scheme would, from being independent. Mr. ANDERTON said the question before them was whether they did or did not agree in the scheme of education proposed by the Government. Now he con fessed he was much surprised that any opposition had come from the gentleman who had just sat down, as at all seasons and on every opportunity he had strenuously advocated the education of the people. Ile had even solicited their aid for schools with which he was con nected ; but now they found him doing all be could to destroy the fabric he had assisted to raise.— (Hear, hear.) There never was a greater fallacy in the world than this uttered by him—that the pro posed plan would destroy the principle of voluntary sub scriptions for the maintenance of schools,_ because the object of the Government was to a id an d assist these schools, not solely to maintain them.—(Hear, hear.) Why, the Lord Mayor and the Aldermen, and, in fact, all of them, had been frequently called upon to aid by subscriptions schools whose funds were inadequate to maintain them; in fact it was but yesterday that the Lord Mayor attended a sermon in St. Sepulchre's, which was preached in aid of a school in that parish, which educated about 100 children, but which, from removals and other causes, had got 1204 in debt. They all knew the great exertions Mr. Wire had made on behalf of education, and that he took great interest in a school in his neighbourhood, that he was the schoolmaster, and, in fact, a father to the children.—(Roars of laughter.) This school was supported on the voluntary principle ; but if the funds :ell off, what objection could he have to apply to the Government and say " The school is in want o r funds. I can educate more children. Will you give me funds to accomplish so desirable an object ?"—(Haar, hear.) To talk of education destroying the indepen dence of man was absurd. In his opinion education nrLietrenllidependent —Clear, hear.) Give the slave education and he becomes a free and independent mate- 7 (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman was about to refer to the circular issued by the Government, when ho was interrupted by Mr. WIRE, who said that it was not an authorised document—it had not been yet agreed to.. It might be materially changed before it was adopted. It had even been changed five times since first issued. ANDERTON said Mr. Wire had opposed the Church, but now he found the Church becoming more liberal, he turned and said, " No; we will have nothing to do with you. This is a scheme supported by tha Church, and what is supported by the Church cannot be good, and therefore we will have nothing to do with it.' But if the Church had opposed the plan, no doubt the Dissenters would have favoured it. Where was the objectionable power of the Government? "The Com mit:ee of the Schools are to have the power of dismiss ing the master." Surely, there could be no objection to that. They were also empowered to select the books, and the mode of discipline to be adopted. Why, what more could be required?—(Hear, hear.) "He would have no authority to dictate what should be done in the management of the school, and would not be allowed to offer his advice, except wished to do so," by the School Committee. What honest Dissenter could object to that? No honest Dissenter could.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) If they were sincere in their desire to bee the people educated, they would not oppose one of the greatest blessings ever proposed by a Government.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. De Jersey said in his statement, that they had room for 400 children; but that they could nit get the requisite number to attend. But this might arise from various circumstances. Perhaps the masters were unable to teach them; that was one great failing, as a great proportion of the masters in these schools wanted teaching as mach as the scholars. In 1834 ' the report of the British and Foreign School Society stated that 150,000 child ren were t h en grow i ng up in . London without education ; and that within a radius of a quarter of a mile. In the neighbourhood of Barbican, there was a population of 18,000, out of whom the number of children attending day schools did not exceed 300.—(Hear.) This was in the city of London ; and the voluntary sytem had not been able to keep pace with the number of children wbo stood in need of educe • thin. A meeting was held in the hall, under the auspices of Alderman Johnson, in order to raise 5001 for a school ; after it an application was made to the Court to defray the expenses, or that they might not be taken out of the fund collected, end Mr. De Jersey was in favour of that motion.—He hoped that they would pass an unanimous vote in favour of the Government plan. The Govern ment would not be thought to do their duty if they flinched from carrying it out.—(Bear, hear.) Mr. Cant said, when he was told that there were 150,000 children in London without education, he would not be a barrier altogether to the plan of the Govern mPnt. It was the duty of a paternal Government to educate her children, but he was opposed to soy system of education which partook of a compulsory character; he did not, therefore, decidedly object to the scheme. There were, however, several details which might be materially improved.—(Hear, hear.) Ho was glad to find the Government earnest at last with respect to the education of the people.—(Eleer, hear.) In his opinion the voluntary system was inadequate to educate the children of this country as they ought to be educated.— (Hear, hear.) A great deal had been done in some dis tricts; but, speaking generally, he considered that the voluntary system had proved a failure, and that some aid should be received from the State. especially as the greater proportion of these schools (and he had considerable experience in them) were not sup ported as they ought to be, and therefore no taxation would be more palatable than one which was raised for educating the juvenile mind. Besides the Church of England and the Dissenters, there were a large number of children who belonged to neither the one or the other, who should be induced, as much as possible, to avail themselves of the education which would be afforded to them. Mr. PRENDERGAST considered that the Government would be happy to avail themselves of any suggestions from any quarter, which could render the system they were about to carry out more effectual ; and with that view they had, no doubt, so extensively circulated the 1 minute which had been agreed to by the Council. It certainly did not partake of a bigoted or sectarian character. For every sixpence to be given by the Government one shilling must be raised by voluntary subscriptions ; and no persons could receive it for schools with which they were connected unless they had given their shillings—(Hear)—and the Government, in stead of wishing to take the power from the people in this matter, had put the whole power in their hands, thus showing that they had the highest co n fid ence i n saidtheythe hwaorndliti the voluntary principle. Mr. De Jersey, an d o th ers w h o o h p o p o o d s t ed o Government p th ro e poseabett er plan, plan hadtheyt nothad one day be able to accomplish all that was required, although they admitted th at as yet the volu n tary prin ciple had failed. B u t h ew much crime, which might be stayed, wou ld occur i n the interim ? The members of the Established Church had come forward in the most handsome manner, and those who opposed the system which the Church supported, seemed to do so on this ground—that the Church could save more shillings than they could, and therefore they would have nothing todo with it.—(ffear.) Mr. Baines's argument that the Government Inspec tors would exercise a kind of despotism over the pupils and the teacher, and combine . together to prevent the teacher from obtaining a situat i on elsewhere if he had the misfortune to lose his situation, was the most mon strous he ever heard. Wby they had no power to dis miss, and it was unlikely that they would concert together to deprive a monitor of his 101. a-yea r , or f or the purpose of crushing a teacher because he would not succumb to them.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Baines' book the worst he had ever read.—(Cheers He had b was een a teacher in a Sunday-scho o l, an d he f ound that what was taught one Sunday was children by the next—or that in fact forgotten by the act they were more , ignorant—(Cheers)—thus showing h the importance of day schools in connexion with the young people: confined iT t em. He was afraid that in \elnga te were . but a sample of the great body of Ile had just returned f uneducat ed ch ildren . in this country. that those who were markedrom t i h n e t h c c ircuit, c e u a l t e , n a d n d had s fou nd d. but imperfectly, were, for all purposes, as ar uni s ns r t e r a ue t t n e s as if they had received no education at all. The Go vernment wanted to obtain good schoolmasters, and to put a atop to the nonsense taught in many of the schools. A 8 a proof of ignorance amongst persons moving in a higher sphere of society, he could state that out of eight coachmasters who came to him as a deputation on some business, two could not write. He was not one of those who considered that the Government had propounded this scheme in order to help their fortunes at the elec tion, which was so close at band ; but that they had brought it forward for the sole purpose of benefiting the people.— (Hear.) Mr. ASHURST considered that the Established Church bad ever taken a most reprehensible part against tha education of the people. Those in favour of civil and religious liberty would be as desirous that Atheists should enjoy their opinions without molestation; but if the Ministers and the Legislature were of that way of thinking, and appointed Magistrates to dispense the laws of a similar opinion, would they think that such . 1 . 1 . Government as fit to be intrusted with the _nrilgiti meat (.f the education of the whole peopleP t not.Yet pa th tr e o G na o r ve , rnm s e h n ic t h were it to A past e xperience proyed? would abuse. Whit ha d be trus evid ed en w t th th im mensee