The Sun. — London, England, 1806-06-25 00:00:00

, 11; 4d. per eentum be granted to Greenwich Hospital, out of all properties which shall hereafter be condemned as prize, and vat of all droits of Ad als'o a sum of 31. 6s. Bd. per centuin out of the same to the Chest at Greenwich?' The Resolutions *ere unanimously agreed to, and on the House being resumed, the Report was ordered to, be received, to.-morrow. A Nessage from the' Lords informed the House, that their Lordships had agreed to the Tortola Free Port Bill, without any amendments, and had als6 passed Sit. John Gordon's Divorce Bill, to which they desired the concurrence of the House: - Sir Jotiig 'NEWPORT gave notice, that he should to-morrow move for leave to bring in - a Bill for the Relief of the Poor in Ireland. • PEACE IN INDIA. • Mr. PAULL, befOre be should submit the Mo tion with Which hee - Meant to conclude to•the House ; ,wished.to put a qgestion to the Secretary of theßoard of Controul. He held in his hand an authentic do (run-lent, being a Copy of the Treaty of Peace con cluded with Baikal-, which had been received by an overland dispatch, and he wished to know whether His Majesty's Ministers meant to make any .Motion the.subjeta in the course of the ensuing week. India was at present without any Government of any kind .whatever=---without any Council 5 • and if no other Member should bring the subje& forward, in .Competent.as he felt him Self, he should think it, his ‘duty to bring the subjea before the'House. The SPEAKER reminded the Hon. Gentleman that his 'observations' were irregular, without any question kefore the House, any reference. to his Motion. . • Mr. PAULX, again repeated his question, and moved that Major-General Selinger do attend the Commit -tee of the House, on the Omle Charge, to-morrow. Ordered. • Mr. cREEVFY felt himself at liberty only to state, in reply to the Hon. Gentleman, that a Copy of the Treaty with Holkar had been received althe India House. The India Budget, which was to come on next:Tuesday, would affbrd the Hon. Gentleman an opportunity of going into the consideration of the ,subjea. Mr.. Pain'. gave notice, that if no specific Motion ,should next week be made on the subject by His Majesty's Ministers, he 'would submit one upon it to the House. LINEN DRAWBACK BILL. Mr. FOSTE* moved the Order of the Day, for taking into consideration the Report upon this Bill. kil'4;l7,lliT said, that this was a subje& which materially concerned Ireland, because she had ,suffered from a mistake which had crept into the A& which INid passed last year, granting a drawback up on the exportation of certain linens. . The objeet'of this Bill was to corre& this error and the only ob jeEtion he had to this Bill was the date, which had .been inserted in the Committee; he understood that in. order. to alter that datb, it would be nece s s ar y t o re -commit the Bill; he should therefore nOwmove, that the Bill be re-committed. • Atr.' , /):71/KS0N said, that in stating the ground of complaint which Ireland had upon this subject, it Would . not be necessary for him to occupy much of. the time of the' House, because they were obvious to every one, and hcd been fairly acknowledged. It had been stated, and it could ,not be too often stated, _that the error which it was now,:proposed to reCtify arose entirely from mistake: even tho Se. Gentle Men 'ilio nOmr objejted the corroEtioA the.error, ad mitted that it arose from mistake but they wished to do that which lie had never seen . done in any Par liament' in which : he ever sat, viz., to legalize and sandion • the mistake which they acknowledged had "crept into the Ad of Parliament"; for it would in effed !be sanctioning the mistake, if the time when the drawback was to cease was protraCted until. the '?sth . March next. The fads of the case he under stuo to be simply these ; that it was thought pro per last year to grant a drawback upon the exporta tion of certain foreign coloured linen, and a Bill was brqught in for that purpose, and a schedule was ordered to be drawn up, enumerating. the different kinds of linen upon which the drawback was to be . allowed, leaving out plain linen ; but either by fraud or accident, plain linen was inserted, and be came entitledto the draWback, to the great injury of Ireland, because it was, itila6t, giving a bounty upon the exportation of foreign plain linen. When . he _Used the expression fraud, he beggitl, however, not "to be Understood as throwing any .imputation upon The person Who drew up the schedule, of whom he 'had no knowledge; but if such a mistake had crept' into an AO. of Parliament when Ireland was blessed 'With a resident Parliament, he would ask2ny Mem her,' whether' he did not think. that.one of the first iniA;sures of . the next Session would be to correct that mistake, or if no Member of Parliament had taken up' the sullied, would not the . Trade of Ireland have _appeared at the Bar, and demand. . 'ed redress?.. 'He asked no preference for - Ire land: When Ireland , made common cause with this Country, she could.not.exped that in the.event of any .competition of interests bet Ween., the two - co , .lntri6s, that she was to have the preference; Ireland did not eXpe4 that the weaker Contrading 'f'artY*'as - to have the Advantage' 'over the stronger. Ireland did not exped,a preference; but from the present.Adtninistration, whose principles were very .generally approved of in that Country, she expected :liberality and justice. On this occasion she asked ne more than justice.. Was it more than justice to give nosy to. 'lreland that which Parliament meant to have given to her last year,. and actually would have given tq 'her if it had 'not been for this -inistakel Ireland_ did not askfor any remu neration' for the losS she had, sustained by this mistake, she only wanted to be placed in the situation} in I . vhich,Oe would have been if this mis take 'had not happened. Ireland consented to give up • the advantage which she ought to have had, to the tnercatitile - - interest of this 'Country, ; who had aaed upon•the.faith of this A& of Parliament, and Nvh l cs, - it was Contended, ought not to suffer because there was a• mistake in the Ad. 'fie was far . from :i i vishing that ihey'sheuld'suffer ;, he Only asked that mistake, from _which Ireland . ' had - Suffered • a(*) much; should not be - continiied next SesSion.— Let Ireland be_placed the situation Parliament intended .to place her 'last year,. and if the queskien of the DrawbaCk was to be discussed again, let not the an us pfool7l4i be thrown Oen kelancl : i let her tiot -41e'Defopdant, in the ; Cause.—. tyPn thes , ...l'grounds' he should vote fin- the fecom., initril - ent ct Be •• . ri 'Lord :1 -- LE2.1 7 .R.1 7 T 2 ca thai the lion. Gen- ~„: 4, Id, 44. .sp tleman who had just sat down had argued the que stion very fairlj; he had stated, that the ones pro , bandi. ought - not to be thrown: upqn Ireland ; cer tainly it ought not; but it was necessary to take:care that ,the persons who had been misled by, this, mis take in the A& of Parliament should be proteeted. It was not contended that there was any thing like fraud in this case ; it. was avowedly, a mistake ; but one from which there were two descriptions of suf ferers ; first, the Manufadurers of Ireland ; and, secondly, (when the mistake was corrected) thOse persons in this Country who had embarked their capi tal upon the faith of the Aa of Parliament. All . that was now propOsed was, to give them sufficient time to withdraw that capital. It certainly had been contended, that Ireland did not suffer any inconve nience from this measure,- but Parliament would re quire the most full' and satisfaddry evidence upon that subjeCt before it altered the opinion which it had formed, and which if meant when carried into effe& last year. The Honourable Gentleman had appealed to the House, on the part of Ireland, for impartial justice : he was sure there was not a Member in that House who wished to a& otherwise towards Ireland; for himself be Must gay, that the feelings he possessed, and the connexions be. had with Ireland, could not suffer him to be indifferent to its interests ; and, he believed, the general feel ing of the House was to deal with fairness, according to the relative situation of the two parties. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that the question between. his Noble Friend and lay within a very narrow compass, viz. whether • he blank in the Bill should have been filled up with the 25th De cember or the 25th March. It appeared to him, • that for the purpose of enabling persons to with draw their capital from this trade, and to prote& them from suffering by the mistake in the Ad of Parliament, the 25th of December would do just as well as the 25th of March, and that it did hold out to them the chance of embarking in the trade for another year, which was the great objedion he had to the latter date. He thought prolonging the pe riod until the 25th March could only tend to hold out delusive hopes to the Importers of German Li . nen, because it would lead them to suppose that ano ther discussion was to take place upon this ques . tion. next .Session. ,As this mistake had, .Occurred, all that Parliament was now bound to do was; to take care that the persons who had embarked their property upon the faith of the A& of Parliament, should not suffer by the mistake, and that that be effeatually done by,allowing them till Dec. .25th to withdraw, their capital from this trade. It. bad been . contended that Ireland did not suffer by this mistake; let them who maintained that proposition come and make out their case, but let them - come precisely in the same situation as if this error had not been com mitted. Parliament gave them till the 25th of ,Marcb next to withdraw themselves from this-trade, which was so, much longer than was necessary, it would be giving them - a hope that it was intended to discuss. the question again next Session. He trusted the House would , not, while it acknowledged the mistake, and waS proposing to -rectify it, at the same time invite the persons who drew a benefit from it to continue to ad upon that mistake, by putting off the time when it was to be corrected to so distant a period. : He should therefore'vote for the re-com mitment .of the Bill, in order to substitute the 25th December for the 2.5 th March. Mr. FOSTER said, that after what' had fallen from the Hon. Members who had ,preceded hm; it would - not be necessary for him to trespass long upon the time of the Hou,se. The 'fads of the case were shortly these : there - was a duty of eighteen shillings upon foreign linen ; by the Mt of last year there was a • drawback of sixteen shillings allowed upon - exportation of foreign linen : this drawback was only intended to extend to coloured linen ; but by a mistake, plain linen had also been inserted in the SchedUle, and it was to reCtify that mis take that the present Bill was brOught . in. "That this mistake was extremely injurious to Ireland could not be doubted ; because, in fail, it.operoted as a bounty of two-pence a . yard upon- the ex portation of foreign linen, and no bounty was given upon the exportation of Irish linen; to enable it to meet the foreign linen. He was not now arguing for Ireland alone, England and Scotian& were also concerned; because the linen trade of one of them could not be injured without the trade of the others being affeeted: He by no means wished that any person should suffer in consequence of this mistake, and therefore he had proposed that the per sons who had , embarked in this trade in consequence of this mistake • should be Allowed till the 25th of December to withdraw themselves from it.— That period would have . been amply sufficient for that purpose ; but they wished to . prolongit in hopes that the subject would be revived nexfSession. The English Merchant would not sustain any injury by fixing on the 25th December instead of the 25th "March, because he. would not have any opportunity of sending out any linen either to the West Indies or to the-Baltic between those two periods ; the wish, therefore, to prolong •the period could only arise from the motive he had alluded to. There was one point relative to this trade which he wished to explain, because Gentlemen in general might not be acquainted with it, and that was, that during the Reign of King William, Ireland was called upon to give up her woollen trade, which was then not in considerable ; the Parliament of Ireland acquiesced'; and, in return for this sacrifice, the Parliament , of England bargained to encourage in every pos sible way the linen trade oof Ireland. This bar gain agreed upon' between the two Parliaments, I. , Vas- ratified •by the King. At the time of the Union one of the Contra&ing Parties, viz.' the Par liament of Ireland, was merged in the United Par- - liament, and therefore it was now incumbent upon the United Parliament to: consider itself not as a contrasting party, but as the guardian of the con traet. Mr. MAGENS said, he did not think.:-.thattbe extension of the drawback 'to plain linen arosekfrom mistake ; but whether it did or . not, he contended that it was by no 'means - injurious to Ireland ; he, :therefore; opposed the recommitment of the Bill. Mr.'l7o§E said, that this subjeet was very. ma turely discussed by a CoAmittee of' the ,Board of Trak • the majority of 'the Committee ente fained a different opinion from :him, and the Bill of last year was - ordered to , be hrought in.'. The tnis;:ake Which had hen alluded td`certainly did fiud its Way into the Schedule ; and thbugh 'he still reta4r&illis' opi4ion that tierb would .be'a greater expori`ollliP„n. if the Drawback remained' as it uo,w was, yet a 3 there had undoubtedly been a rnistake, irought to be corre&ed. . - After a few words from Mt. ALEXAND=R the House divided on the amended Motion for re-com witting the All when the numbers were-- T -For it 30—Against it 40—Majority 10. The Report was then ordered to be taken into further consideration to-morrow. GLOBE INSURANCE INCORPORATION BILL. Sir T. METCALFE moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of,the Bill for incorpOrating the Globe Insurance Company. ' . Lord CASTLEREAGH put it to the Gentlemen on the other side of the House, whether, as this Bill was likely to give rise to some diseUssion, it would not be More Ciesirable to put it off to sprne future day, to make Way for the discussion of a more im portant measuro (the Defence Bill), which was fixed for this day ; or if the Bill was tq go on, that there should be an understanding in the House that the other discussion should npt be brought on at a late hour. • Lord HZl4'lO 7 P4T7'Y did not think the -discus sion of this measure could occupy much. time. It was not for him to anticipate what may be the plea sure ,of the House with respeet to calling. in the Counsel, but he had no difficulty in saying, that if the discussion should be protratted to any , length, there would be no objedion to put *Atha other dis cussion to a more convenient time. On the question being put, that the Bill be n ow read a second time, Sir JOHN ANDERSON moved an amendment, that the Bill be read a second time this day Ihree months, in which he was supported by Sir WILLIAM Cult- TrS, Mr. GRENFELL, and Sir CHARLES PRICE, On -the ground that the Bill would be an infringement upon the rights of theLonclon and Royal Exchange Insurance Compatiies. Mr. Alderman COHSE, Lord HENRY PETTY, Mr. PAULL; and Mr. ALEXANDER, supported the second reading, on the ground that a competition was fa vourable to the public; that the trade and shipping of. the Country had been vastly increased since the Chatters had been granted to the Companies alluded to ; and that other Corporations were necessary to, meet the accutriulation of business, and this Com'. pany proposed to contribute 100,0001. to the public, and to invest a capital of 1,00.0,000 L. in the public funds, and without requiring any exclusive privileges. Mr. Paull too, stated, that above seven millions an nually were insured - in - India for want of Corpora tions in England for effetiing insurance, more confi dence being placed in Companies than in individual or private insurers. Mr. PERCIVAL, , Mr. SHAW LE FEVRE, and Mr. WM. Smipi, were of opinion that counsel should be heard on the Bill, and the matter of the Petitions against it, before the House should come to any de cision. A division then took place. For the Amend &tient 20—Against it 74--• Majority 54. On the Motion that Counsel should be called in, another division took place :- r -For calling in Coun sel, 39—Against it, 62. The Bill was of course read a Second time, and ordered to be committed. .On the Motion of Sir ARTHUR .WELLESLRY it Was Ordered, that the. minutes. of the evidence on the Oude Charge against Lord Wellesley be printed. On- the Motion. Of Mr. PA ULL it was ordered, that there be laid before the House a Copy of a Letter of the Marquis Wellesley to the Nabob Vizier, dated 27th SeFtember, 1803, relative to. Mr. NULL. _ On the Motion of Mr. W. SMITH the Slave Ship ping Bill went through a cofmnittee. The opera tion 'of the A& was limited to two years from the close of the present Session of Parliament, and a pe nalty of '5Ol. imposed'on the importation of every Slave imported in contravention of it. The Report' was ordered to be received ,to-morrow.. GENERAL TRAINING BILL. Mr.:WINDHAm moved the Order of the Day for the.further consideration of the Report of the Com mittee on the Training Bill. • Lord CASTLERE:IGH was extremely anxious, 'before this question was further gone into, to come to an understanding on a point which was most ma terial. It was very currently reported, that the only obje& of the Right. Hon. Secretary (Windham) in the present Bill was to-incorporate his own ideas with the A& already in existence (the Leay en Masse .4a) ; but when it should have passed, to have it, like that Aet, unexecuted, unless some particular emergency should arise. If that were true, he should have little objeetion to allow the Bill to proceed. It was certainly most material to the discussion to be informed whether the Bill, if passed as it now stood, was to be executed or not. Mr. WINDHAM said, this was the first time he had heard of any doubt that the measure was to be carried into execution. It was then ordered that the Report be now taken into further consideration. It was then moved that the Bill be re-committed. Mr. BAGWELL opposed the Motion. The Bill went, in a great measure, to destroy the system of de fence raise by the late Administration, which, was 'admirably adapted to the chara&er and spirit of the Nation. Absurd speculations were to be introduced to destroy a system of experienced- advantage. The forms of these speculations were at the same time most unconstitutional. He did not mean to arraign the motive of the Right 'Hon. Secretary, which .he supposed must be most patriotic; but he must say, that the great.hopes entertained by the Country from the admission of the Right Hon: Gentleman to the office he held were completely disappointed. The Arst, measure of the Right Honourable Gentleman went to repeal an Ad which produced 18,000 men annually, without replacing it by any adequate sub stitute. The Right Hon. Gentleman had alarmed 'the Volunteers and Yeomanry Cavalry by 'keeping them in a state of complete suspense as - to what was to be done with them. The Right Hon. Gentle man's grandmeasore for recruiting the Regular Army had - proved - a complete abortion in legislation. It was an experiment,-doubtful so far as it was calcu lated to produce men, , but certain so far as it was to bi - atten(e.l with burthens,t and as it tended to dis yrb the general arrangement of the Army. If we -Were to keep pace with the Military exertions 'of the continent, our views must be aireaed to continental operkions. The Volunteer System would, if hated" properly; be most effeatial, in - aid of our Regular Arm, for most operatiods—but - the pre, sent tiroceedipgs went to ` . decrease - the numbers, terelax tho t i li4iFipij , 4s . 9f t 4 V9liintgas, fie could di' eorer no other motive for abandlning tloa highly beneficial System of the late Admi,listration,, and adopting the System now proposed, but to al here 'to do&rines advanced in, the spirit, he would not say of a faEtious, but at most of a systetnatic and indiscriMinatina opposition. The Bill went to Re -0 peal every aa and every principle upon which the services of the Public had been contributed during the whole of the last and the present War. It went to give a power to place every man in Engleind of military age in any Regiment of the Line, and to march to any part -of England, subje& to mili tary law. If the Bill should pass, he hoped therc would be Petitions from all parts of England against it. At present he was content - to 'enter his protest .against the measure, as likely to overthrow the wise and efficient System of ,thelate Administration, and to overturn the fundamental principles of the Con stitution. • . • , • Sir LIMES PULTENEY was for the Amend - trent. He approved of theprinciple of the Bill, as calculated to afford the best foundation of an effec tual defensive System, against a contingency, to meet which all possible means should be brought into operation. It was beyond a doubt that Regu lar Soldiers were to be preferred to all others---but it was impossible, in the circumstances in which this Country was placed, to have an adequate forte in Regular Soldiers alone. Looking at invasion as • pradicable, it was possible that a conjnndure may arise at the beginning of some future war, when the Enemy may be comparatively stronger at sea, and we comparatively weaker by land. If a descent were made at such a conjundure, there would be no adequate security against it, -It had been justly stated by the Right Hon. Secretary, that the rea son why the French . Armie - advanced without check after the defeat of Mack was, that the countries through which they passed had not 'an armed and trained population. Much had been said abont the . Volunteers. He was one of ' those who opposed the Volunteer System. It was impossible for tjle Ministers who established the Volunteer System. to resist the cry in favour of it—hut it al ways appeared to him that general Training was better. He bad a high respe& for the Volun teers, who had, in many. instances l made greit sacrifices for the' Co4ntry, and who had attained generally a very high degree of discipline. The spirit shewn by the Volunteers in Yorkshire anti the Northern Countries, when an invasion was atually believed to haVe taken place, did them the highest honour, and placed their spirit beyond all question. But they could not be looked uplan 4.1 a proper Permanent Force. He would no more trust to Volunteer Services in a Permanent Military point of view, than he would to Voluntary Contributions as a Permanent Revenue. The carrying the rne4- sure into effe& may be attended with difficulties it was worth the experiment. Th er e w ere three points which he wished particularly to notice; first, the power of putting the trained men into the re 'gul'ar army, which he didnot think unCenstitutional, because it was to be done only in case of invasion, and to continue only during that emergency. The hardship in that case would not be beyond the propor tion of the interest to. be defended, and the ruin. threatened. The successive reinforcements which 400,000, trained men would afford, would be suffi cient to render the Country invincible. It was by the incorporation 'of the National Giliards, a forCe trained in this manner, that the French Armies were rendered so powerful in the late War. The next point -was the appointment of Officers by the Crown, which he thought a most wise provision, far without . Officers the men would be without order and without 'discipline., It would be impos sible to assemble them or to keep them together. With respect to the expence, which was the third point, he confessed the plan of the Right Flop. Gen- - tleman nearshim, (Mr. Yorke) for training on Sun, days, without pay, was preferable, if the people could be brought to conform to it. The Principle, at all events, he concurred in most cordially, and 44 course voted for-the recommitment. Afr. SPENCER: ST A NHOPZ Would be silent if the measure was not to be carried into but if it was to be carried into execution be' must oppose it, as the most obnoxious and intoleraNti measure ever resorted to. It went to do no less than to raise by ballot every fourth rn . an of militag age in the Country. According the to Militia lists, there were 840,000 men of military age. Of these -- 40,000 were taken for thp Militia. The Volunteers, if they were allowed to ' enlist in addition to the Mi litia, would lessen the stock in the 'proportion of six to twenty. Of the remaining fourteen the Hon. Gentleman proposed to take five. It had been an-: nounced to the Country, that if Volunteers were found in sufficient numbers, the Training ACt would not be carried into effe&. These numbers were fur nished and maintained, and now this Bill was brought forward to violate the engagements entered into by Government. The older men had furnished money to fit out and train tile young, - and now they were to be called on themselves. The people of England were easily led, but difficult to be driven. The expence of drilling 200,000 men fur 40 days would be 400,0001. exclusive of the charge of ,artns,„ of places and persons to keep those arms, and of powder and 'shot for exercising. The Right ,Ho nourable Secretary seemed to confine this measure to England. Why was it not applied to Scot land ? Why not to Ireland ? Was Scotland perfeet ly safe without it,' and was England in danger un less it was resorted to ? He could not understand the idea of a separate danger or a separate safety. All parts of the Empire were to stand or fall to gether. It was a great objection to this measure that the people were not to be commanded by their natural leaders,--their landlords. The Country Gen tlemen would be extremely averse to carry so odious an ACt into execution. The Bill was founded upon every thing the Hon. Gentleman had condemned for these four years past. if the men refused to '.turn out for a shilling a day, more should be given, and this would , create a competition with the Line. On reading the Bill he was at a loss to discover Which was to be the Commanding Officer, the Ser jeant pr the 'Constable.—(4 laugh). Upon his conscience he believed the Hon. Gentleman meant to starve out the Volunteers. A Volunteer Cap- , tain may, by this Measure, be degraded from his rank in society, to 'winch his' vOlunteer rank was oreportioned„and placed in the Mess between his wn Gtodni and the Parish Chimney-sweeper.--. (A 444 h):.` The fines upon the townships would 4e equally hard, They would be punished for not • I