The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-05-07 00:00:00

Imperial Parliament. HOUSE OF LORDS. THURSDAY, MAY 2. Petitions for the immediate abolition of slavery were pre sented by Lord Ellenborough ; by Lord Suffield (50in number,) from various places in Cornwall, Kent, Sussex, Lincoln, York, and the Isle of Wight; by Earl Fitzwilliam; and by Lord Stanley, from Lancashire. Lord TEYNHAM moved for copies of two returns which had been presented to the House of Commons relative to the con sumption of malt and hops from 1832 to the present time. The Earl of MA LMESBCRY moved for an account of the ave rage price of wheat for the last ten years, respectively ending :nth April, 183.3. • Mt, Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from ma gistrates, hankers, merchants, and others, inhabitants of Bel fast, for a gradual and safe abolition of slavery, and compensa tion to the planters. He had a petition to the same effect from Edinburgh. The latter was signed by 2,468 persons, and was well entitled to attention, no less on account of the res p ec tability • of the petitioners, than by reason of the j ustice of the sentiments contained in the petition. Adjourned at 7 o'clock. FRIDAY. A message from the Commons brought up the London and Bit, mingham Railway Bill, with the Lords' amendments agreed to. Petitions for the abolition of negro slavery were presented by Lord Poltimore, the Earl of Radnor, Lord Deere, the Duke of Devonshire, the Earl of Rosebery, the Marqu ess of Bath, Lord Suffield (5) petitions,) from various places, the Duke of Nor folk, the Archbishop of York, the Earl of Roden, Lord Western, Lord Gosford,,the Earl of Morley, and by the Duke of Sussex. Lord Ellenborough presented a petition from persons in the city of Edinburgh interested in West India property, praying for compensation in case of any sudden or immediate measure for the abolition of slavery being carried into effect. —The Duke - of Richmond presented a petition from Burwash, in Sussex, for • a reduction of the malt duty.—Lord Byron presented a petition from Exall, relative to poor rates. FOREIGN POLICY—FRENCH O CCUPATION OF ALGIERS. The Earl of ABERDEEN, in pursuance of notice to that effect, submitted to the house a motion having reference to a matter of great public importance, but which, important though it was, he . should not have brought under the notice of the house at the pre sent moment had it not been connected with considerations of a personal nature. His first desire was to repeat, without a tittle or shade of variation, his former assertion—viz. that the French had entered into engagements respecting Algiers which had not been fulfilled. He did 'not pretend to say that any convention had been signed on the subject, or that any express stipulation been entered into for the evacuation of Algiers by the .French; but he contended that engagements were contracted which, in reference to all the Powers interested in the Mediterranean, and in the territorial arrangenacierits of that part of the world, were calculated to allay apprehentsions that might reasonably have existed. As he understood that i t was not the intention of the noble earl to object to the production of the papers for which he should move, he did not think it necessary to detain the 'house at length by an explanation of the nature of the engage ments to which he had alluded. He should be perfectly satis fied, when the papers were on the table, to leave their inter pretation to any men of common honour and common sense. He did not desire to detain their lordships with arguments in favour of a motion which was not to be opposed, still less did he wish to prolong the debate by endeavouring to - produce an angry discussion by adverting to topics which were Pot before the house; at the same time, he must remind the noble earl that the fact of the dominions of Algiers being con nected with the Porte might fairly excuse him for inquiring into the present state and future prospects of the Turkish em pire in consequence of recent events.—(Hear.) lf, however, be abstained from saying a word snore on the subject, it was for the reasons already stated: he did not want to interfere with pending arrangements, and lie also hoped that at no distant day an opportunity would be afforded to discuss the subject fully when the negotiations should be before the house. Although, in his opinion, the noble earl in many of his relations with ;:,reign states had acted under views most mistaken in their nature, and likely to be most fatal to the interests and honour -of this country, still he had no reason to know that on this par ticular subject the noble an entertained any views or opinions different from his own. He gave the noble earl credit for being ;lolly impressed with the great importance of the question. Should there be any noble ktrds in the house who were of the naval profession, arid possessed personal knowledge or experi ence of that part of the world he would conficklitiv appcatto teem; but the house would probably be satisfied as t 7) the great importance of the territory in question by the testimony of Nelson, Collingwood, and Exmouth. Indeed, it was only necessary to cast an eye on the map,. and observe the position of the territory, to be convinced that to see it in the possession of any European power, more .especially of France, was a matter that could not be contemplated without apprehension and alarm. Could men see between 500 and 600 miles of coast at the entrance of the Mediterranean, and within sight of Spain, in possesson of France without an interest being excited in every 'country concerned in commerce ? The present was a great step towards the completion of the ambitious project of Buona 'liarte, for making the Mediterranean Sea the grand station for the French navy. (Hear.) He could not but feel persuaded that the noble earl was fully impressed with the importance of the subject, and, so fat from wishing. to thwart the noble earl, if anything that so humble an individual as himself could do might be of service, nothing would afford him more pleasure than to co-operate with the noble earl in any way for the satis factory settlement of the question. In conclusion, he moved — That an humble address be presented to his Majesty praying that his Majesty would be pleased to order to be laid before the house copies or extracts of correspondence between his Ma jesty's secretary of state for the foreign department and the English ambassador at Paris, in the year 183 E, relative to the French expedition to Algiers ; also for copies of official des patches containing explanations of the objects of the expedition forwarded by the French .g overnment to their ambassador in London, and by him submitted to the English government in the months of ;March and May, 1E330; and, lastly, for copies or extracts of despatches from the English ambassador in Paris to the government at home, announcing the intention of the King of the French to fulfil all the engagements entered into by the preceding governments relative to Algiers. _Earl GREY, not intending to give any opposition to the pro duction of the principal part of the documents referred to by the noble earl, should abstain from entering into any extended discussion of this subject, nor did he imagine that their lord ships would think it expedient to enter into a discussion of a subject of that nature, with respect to which further negotia tions must take place between this country and the government of France. In a case in which a question was depending, ma terially affecting not only the interests of England and France, but general European interests connected with the possession of the Mediterranean, nothing but public inconvenience could arise from forcing on premature discussions in Parliament at a time when negotiations and discussions were pending. He was far from imputing an intention to produce such embarrass ment to the noble earl. If he had himself to decide the ques tion, perhaps he should have preferred .a total silence on the subject at present; but when the noble earl felt it to be his duty to call for information showing the state in which the question of the occupation of Algiers had been left by the late govern ment, it was but justice to the noble earl to admit that the ap plication could not have been urged in a more temperate and judicious manner, or in a way less likely to produce embarrass ment or inconvenience. To the two first resolutions lie saw no objection whatever. He should have liked, perhaps, to have had the motion deferred, but as it had been made, the house could come to a conclusion on it without any great puz,lic in convenience. He saw no inconvenience in granting the papers referred to in the two first resolutions ; at least, none equal to exciting an adverse discussion on the subject. To the produc ion of these papers, therefore, he trusted the house would give its consent. The noble earl had given him a list of the papers whichavere thought necessary; he did not know that any fur ther papers would be requisite, but if it appeared to him subse quently that it would be desirable to add to them, he would use the discretion of doing so. To the first and second resolutions he repeated that he had no objection ; but to the third, which called for copies or extracts of despatches from our ambassador at Paris to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, announc ing the intention of theliing of the French to fulfil all the en gagements of preceding governments relative to Algiers—to this resolution he felt considerable objections. He had many doubts as to the propriety of producing the information here called for. He did not think that there was any paper in the Foreign-office which strictly answered to the description con tained in the resolution; but there was undoubtedly a despatch from a noble lord now in his place, dated Paris, rtith August, and containing an account of a conversation that had passed between the noble lord and the king of the French. Undoubt edly it was the duty. of the noble lord, in his capacity of ambas sador, to transmit to the government an account of that con versation; but there was some difficulty as to producing the despatch. First, it purported to be a private conversation, and was held on the 16th of August, at a period when the new go vernment of France bad not been formally recognized by this country; so that the noble lord did not write as an accredited ambassador, there being, in strictness, no such character in the THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. evil be removed by the introduction of the system of poor-lawn? He had given the subject due consideration, and though he was not prepared to say at once that it was his decided opinion that poor-laws ought not to he introduced into Ireland, yet. he . certainly entertained great doubt as to whether the introduction of that system would be beneficial. He thought that Govern ment should take the subject into consideration, and he was also of opinion that the inquiry should take place in Ireland; for which purpose he intended to move, as an amendment on the motion, an address to the Crown to appoint a commission to • investigate the subject.—(Hear, hear.) the amendment which he would submit was so worded as not to pledge the house to any opinion on the subject. of the introduction of poor laws into Ireland, nor indeed would it point directly to that object. The amendment was as follows :—"That a humble address be pre sented to 'His Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to give directions that a commission do issue, to inquire into the condition of the poorer classes of his Majesty's subjects in Ireland, and into the various institutions at present esta blished by law for their relief." In such a case as this he thought it would not be right to give the commission the power of recommending the adoption of any measure. All that he re quired was, that they should obtain correct information as to the condition of the people of Ireland, and as to what means they at present possessed of obtaining relief. When that information was before them they might decide whether a system of poor laws, freed from the faults of the English system, should be in troduced into Ireland ; and if, on the contrary, they should decide that such a system ought not to be introduced, the Irish people would see that the house had come to that decision, not from a want of humanity for or a sympathy with them, but from a de sire to promote their best interests. (Cheers.) The noble lord concluded with moving his amendment. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to be permitted to second the amend ment, and in making that offer the house would see that he gave his humble approbation to the view which the noble lord took of the subject. Ile had come down to the house with the intention of addressing them at considerable length, but the proposition which had been made rendered it unnecessary for him to do so. The hou. and learned member concluded by seconding the amendment proposed by Lord Althorp. Sir R. PEEL hoped that they would not proceed to legislate on this subject without the most ample information before them which was within their reach. He would suggest to the noble lord that much valuable information might be obtained through the foreign ministers resident in this country. They would be able to give, or picture, information respecting the laws in their countries applicable to the relief of the poor. It would be im portant to know what were the laws applicable to the relief of the poor in large cities or iu rural districts, and what provisions existed for the relief of sudden and extensive distress amongst that class. Foreign courts would, he was sure, be ready to af ford every information on those subjects, and there had been of late years so great an improvement, and so much information collected on those subjects by foreign powers, that it would be important to consult them in an inquiry such as was now pro posed, and he was sure the disposition existed on the part of those powers to give every information which they possessed. The motion was then put, and negatived without a division, and the amendment of Lord Althorp was adopted. Mr. Ricrimans suggested that after the words " such provi sions" the words " as by law existed" shouldbe omitted as those words would narrow the inquiry too much. An hon. Member suggested that the words should be "by laW or otherwise ;" and with this addition the amendment was agreed to. Mr. Cayley was called on by the Speaker, on his notice of a motion for a committee on the distress of the country. An hon. Member said that Mr. Cayley . was prevented by in disposition from attending to bring on Ins motion, but that he would take an early opportunity of bringing it forward. DEBTOR AND CREDITOR IN SCOTLAND. The LORD ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring in a bill for rendering the payment of creditors more certain and expedi tious, and for the better regulation of mercantile bankruptcies in Scotland. The learned lord prefaced his motion with some remarks, but the state of the house was such, that neither these, nor some observations of Mr. C. FEnGussois, were heard in the gallery.—The motion was agreed to. COTTON WEAVERS. Mr. J. MAXWELL moved to refer the petitions of the cotton weavers for local boards of trade, and other regulations for the improvement of their trade, to a select committee. The hon. member, who could with difficulty be heard, enlarged upon the distress and misery under which the hand-loom-weavers were suffering, and suggested some modes of relieving them. He was ready to withdraw his motion; if the noble lord (Althorp) would allow the petitions to be referred for inquiry to the select committee on trade and manufactures he was to move for this evening. Mr. DUNLOP could bear witness to the extreme distress of the weavers in the west of Scotland : they expected that their situation would be inquired into by this house ; he therefore, begged the noble lord to permit their petitions to be referred to the committee he was about to move for, as he was sure they would be satisfied when they knew that their distress was the subject of the inquiry of a committee of that house. Lord ALTHORP concurred in the opinion of the hon. member (Mr. Maxwell), that the house ought to show a sympathy to wards this unfortunate class of men; but he doubted the expe diency of referring their petitions to a special committee, or of giving to local boards the power of fixing the rates of wages, which would be most mischievous, and to none more than to the petitioners themselves. Arr. J. MAXWELL made a few observations in reply, which were inaudible, and concluded by withdrawing his motion. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.—DOVER ELECTION. Mr. HALcame, in introducing his motion for inquiry into the proceedings connected with the two last Dover elections, said that he did not mean to charge the ministers of the Crown directly with an undue interference to influence the votes of persons connected with the Post-office and Ordnance establish ments at Dover; but if the circumstances which he intended to refer to were founded in fact, he was sure it would be the opinion of the house that some individual behind the curtain, possessing government influence, had unduly interfered in those elections. The hon. member then read some communications which had passed between him and several of the electors of Dover, from which it appeared that Mr. Bigden, the clerk of the works un der the Board of Ordnance, had been suspended after the first election because he had voted for him (Mr. Holcomb), and an individual named O'Sheeve, brought from Ireland with his wife and family (a laugh) and installed in his situation until the second election was over, when Mr. Bigden was restored. The hon. member instanced cases, founded on the same com munications, of individuals connected with the board, who, from fear of suffering the same suspension, had been induced to vote against him, though they had previously promised him their suffrages. The weight of alleged government interest had been, he contended, made use of against him by Captain Stanhope's committee, and the terror of dismissal held over the voter connected with the government establishments at Dover if they refused to give the gallant colonel their votes. The object of his motion was to ascertain the quarter from whence this influence was brought to bear upon the election, and from whence the correspondence emanated which led to the first suspension and subsequent restoration of Mr. Bigden. The hon. member said that he had also the best evidence that letters were sent round to all the captains of the Post-office packets, directing them to. vote for Captain Stanhope, ou pain of dismissal, and alleged that many of them expressed to him (Mr. Holcomb) their deep regret that they were unable, in con sequence of the receipt of these letters, to fulfil their promises to him. It was the duty of the house, he contended, to insti tute an inquiry for the purpose of ascertaining from whom these letters came, as, if the fact of their emanating from government could be proved, a gross breach of privileges of the house would be made out. He had, besides, received two let ters that very day by the post from Dover, the writer of one of which informed him that he and 5 others had been dismissed from the Ordnance department in consequence of refusing to vote for Captain Stanhope. The writer of the other letter stated that lie had been sent for by Captain Stanhope himself, who solicited his vote, telling him that he possessed the government interest, and that if he did not vote for him, he must take the risk of his refusal. The hon. member said, that in justice to the right hon. Under-Secretary to the Treasury, he would state to the house, that previous to the first election he wrote him a letter, in which he stated his suspicion, from the circumstances he had heard, of the ,g o ve rnment interest being actively arrayed against him. The right hon. gentleman, in reply, stated that he was not aware of any such interference on the part of government, but was sure that no person connected with the government esta blishments would be deprived of his situation "for voting ac cording to his reason and sense of duty." (Hear, hear.) As he did not exactly like the use of the terms "sense of duty," he wrote another letter to the right hon. gentleman, in which he pointed out to him the distinction between sense of duty iu a voter and his opinion or wish, and threatened, unless le re ceived the votes of every person connected with the government ' establishments, he would bring the case before the House of Commons. (A loud laugh.) He thought he had established a sufficient ground for inquiry, and founding his motion on the resolution of the house, which declared it highly criminal in a minister of the Crown to interfere at an election for a member of Parliament, should conclude by moving "That a committee be appointed to investigate the charge of an interference bv, or ' in the name of his Majesty's government, and particularly in the Ordnance and Post-office departments, at the two late elec tions for Dover, in order to influence, illegally and unconstitu tionally, the votes of the electors." s u e_6 l .. eje opie leteber, a e ,. ..em__-- Colonel PBRCIVAL seconded the motion. sh o f trtell e 7 l _ e h en , s ---"..."1 " which the hon. useenbet had introduced lies b weal: fo ort u tviie T . hat this aecedies te calling upon the house to t Mr. P. Thousate said, that after the Issieed to find his allegations resting on 51-1 C a nd, ° llf t o h 44 alt.: h°ll Se will his resolution, concluded He had brought forward the gravest chard his OW , 4 1 4 04 ra in th. , with as little delay as pa could find no person on whom to fix thens Forovertireeets;-ill d saleso%4 at aectis, as shall acts imposing duti could say that, so far from the influence of gfewer cot, il _e ar aouo rat l an d own s shall cause the peers nob] him in the Dover election, he had actually ,‘, ha d bei3On ateo tait i q their pr, ers (a laugh), to pay, in p became connected with government than 0 7k . arld . 4 1 8 : 3 1traci es 4 those dutrY (subject to those duti, had seldom heard a finer specimen of 3 I c osr t hat l3 'g r d t i „ 4 the Z e n, manes: as is paid by the fundhol than had been furnished by the hon. me :, ow " . 9 0 1 , ,,, a u Cas es t h e classeseturers farmers, meth Sir .1. GRAHAM said that he wished to °f fri re l as the ne rich o of the kingdom and a subject, in vindication of the character of a Le sta t F lo 1 1r s . Poose r ' Pay the said duties in the a by Vll • lone .0e . ties . upon which an imputation had been cast 1 i t hin •oe a des,. reithed, hon. member for Dover. He could not 4 ' l , w soeg u o r. For4°4 Plied, , hon. member had brought his case before the of l a w 0 4k the originallPPeared far as it related to the Post-office. The co arts ss a the ' re eainst i t l:notion 41 0, u - o f 0 On M • • • • to him, and by act of Parliament any 0 -- ce a able ip.D,,,,tttunai,,-aiority against • ter-General in particular, were rendered ia f ted °•,,,qta r ittZg the .l tr.) the i the amendment serving his Majesty after being once con ' ac hlc du r 'slool'' 'II e ndedtrad e motion.ery, a conversation was i interference in election matters. The 11 °. i t eta 0 , ~, i l‘lt, AC ,e Isla of Lord Altlanp for a of the Post-office was most anxious to have st ivills i 'l'd A Ll :wood, manufactures. In reply to so he had not shown any want of respect to V i 'S c r e ahie, i i; "mg a l tioßp said that house, nor forgotten the duties of the high o c ri d e ed iu . ii r V oete. °relit opinions, (Hear, hear.) The noble duke had P r " ec ie . ctie u ate fi r it Aryls so as to represent fully t 1 with remarkable caution. On the first e „ ne e la th aeir oon said it ceptance of office a decided instance of iter' s „ on v" . .v l s `.leas the sa would be convenient if the the government candidate occurred in Ca r g, was , -i r e% "as sot . ' 4 PIA it t Ines. "rallOtiollt an oficer connected with the Post-offiee , w _., i , re A t a tab to 0 the noble lord whether, ' if t vs it 11 ° 4 ' 10 0 11 0 4 . 1141 th the whale (s the fact was known, discharged. (—e` b l ost-oil !, e Info the the c oh?"), could ai the late election the noble duke sent to e %,et f r fs e el; tl t he etttrade and c ommittee he was about to n Britain, and to each packet-station an e s l , va s at' . " - igis: e fiast euti°ll of the °mraerce and shipping ? I Parliament, pointing out the penaltya whic e i t ' he o ble, Id 4 . rY to know u laolise to this fact, thal it wi interference. (llear, hear.) An as h rese nt 0 14 40 1 a sr , .aat were to be the object foreseen that some such charge as the e - lidat e at t tVies si , d es of i t ° l, llP said that ferred against him by a disappointed o w .. / j a r , ti) 4 tie„ his tue s ou at it had been thought d to -li r ' . ly ill A tor,' h o se that directed Sir F. Freeling to write a letter i s ate t tei tt 4. hi e , a committee should bt of packets at that place, " advising et Pr ioy of th e je l r l tt ler ees ee's s inut _ou (Mr. Baring) objected to terference on the part of officers iu th einP e ot e _ f ,,et IsS,who quirt', he must remind him that disqualified to take any part in elections cooed'' (II ' !ter, t e t 'ea for such a committee on the viewed and treated in the most serious iivg a prol le t r , m ince e ? words from and suggesting that "he would probably ta1T (0 ,,.) ' 01 ; 1 ' BUppl y. Mr. Young, the house to notify this to the proper parties. ' (pleat, lett er e9 r ' tts t , to this he had in his possession the copy e sires.o e llrTe tt , L, in moving ESTIMATES. Mr. Hart on the Ist of May, stating that the i also op isedy madeear( recapitulated asg the estimates for the lan received had been carefully attended to; al"! theseby ) . 4t , tioitli h y bii the statements whit tion from five captains of post-office paesS ia -1 t li e ;Ilese x : l o g that ~ s lit hon. predecessor (Sir J. at Dover, denying that any influence ad i ee e n ciec tiO se, 1 tee 4 occasioned ta ue l s ti m was the intention of the hon. i meat in order• to influence heir votes a the 'l le g oal, he 41 , 41 ea be., e reductions. The addition i Tho honourable gentleman had appealed to t .1 o d e 7, s e , f or ,1,11,g required for state of Ireland and 0: house; he also made that appeal (hear, h ear lisat t ° soUlt°.o. t h e her, ss for the former and aboi the house would agree with him in thilikingos of s ft, V t sires e right hon, e additional number being their time had been wasted in the consider a s a i i . : 15 0r! A , e d 5,,, ,, . 01i1ti 0 ,_ ... ,, gentleman concluded by originated in election squabbles. He colO ot to ted ` - to 2t . ).. t ``!et ex e c That That it is the opinion of this that the principle upon which the evernnieua of s o t 'tv ' Virit a i e s fr aY the ri g 3 ,168,216 14s. Id. be gri interfere for the purpose of influencing the r e ' s e of g s ° iv of ,i'' and I Charge of his Majesty ' 1 s an auea es ) s . the re . relent' • a • and all that they exacted was, that the in , c s e e . a I, oe ss ge seut _ . , an on service abroad, , should not be turned against themselves. S sa tisfie f.. ( l4 l eny, . sin the tertitorial possessions Sir J. R. REID expressed himself perfeet Afte,r at 4 :!erasi: obse ssed, explanation made by the right hon. bar°"ebelieve that '' , (1 hi t s nt not only that ministers were bound I right hon, baronet lied stated he could not _ a t lb 1 , th e x o pe ,___Y the services which the publi vernment had exercised any undue influence .. s th e I st fi_ se es w_Vall, but the capability of the tion for Dover. rof l''' re i r tva e how fary such establishments. t o t al. d e g 52 2 r y ear we could _ He w Lord LENNOX begged to say . , on ~ „vest I , . , ss_,s. i n 1 .. bring down the army native, that he never had interfered in the 5 0 6 ilti l firaeru; ie 18 z21 the number of troops 1 election for Dover. (Hear, hear.) ti a Mr. hianc i ,l,Nub er ,-,, 69,000; and in 1824, 73,0 After a few words from Mr. M. PhilriPs a ,uti:001, b e of men, rank and file, in the the motion was negatived without a diyisiden.stop 0 te"._,r of e t c ro spt, Mound it amounted to 61,900, s The report of the committee upon th _ f e r , ‘ e t o ° la 16 , 4, k and file, this year was 78, having been brought up, e isa v oi i a te te Thi s za men on the averae of the Mr. RICE said that the noble lord the Chall.ce s ee° d , tt ~, a keti was exclusive of officers; whet s , lo s s t • t the a . ut e chequer intended to move that these acs - tba t a ote I tjEagiouhses,„e expensemnta amounted committee to-morrow, in order to propos e rt isesi e to e x 30 (1 1 7 no; it amounted of pay in the three y Is. 6d. be placed on the insertion of adve., o llo 3 0 i t e d e kliel h fi item amounted to £3,168,000, an papers, instead of the fluctuating duty °r l i l i allti to j i : r e or 1 82 , a ,vone, or an excess of 21 pe: the financial statement. a t he s' p a t.4le ?When lastly tins increase of expense ? Was the Exchequer, then postponed till to-niorr r lieto ie st ), or I, the thePseoPle were groaning under th the appointment of the committees to jog"' pt se ate , f ? our foreignwas' relations? He denied The other orders of the day were then a 1 sr sli of b periods _ he had been assured, at house adjourned at half-past 2 o'clock. 0 , , 4 ,,, 1, to l4 ltro pe referred to than it was at preset] FRIDAY. , sell ° e i llervi the s• w as less settled-and it - a fter •‘ofd, ii(, asked Istacha The Speaker took the chair shortly ace Le see t ees h ill.) nees in South America. I which time there was a tolerably full atten? e 'd a t V.P6$l hi e wola ti a , that to point out specific items fo: The Deputy Clerk of the Crown atteaatoo 010, tit th e ii h e eiti , instead of 44,0(X) troops fee amended the return for the county of the, sti , ja i , w05411,4e, of sufficient. In the colonies substituting the name of Martin J. Blake , ''' a a och i s s e s d ole el te unfair that was necessary. He L. Maclachlan, Esq., who had been declare,. orc s7. , i k its , Pot t ai t _a to ask ministers to make a r On the motion of Sir G. SK IPWITH, tilelio.creo sc ot be` elap ee 'je of the year, seeing that a c to the London and Birmingham railway bill t it `,,' tr 't es es _shotaduefore reduction 4 could be car time, and agreed to. u 0 'it "s of Pro Pose to strike off • titioll s the • vote `'. T h . /ilea The house was occupied in receivingpe sect pr d i , , 4( _ is w above the average scale o when Mr. Blake took the oaths and his se' te s the , i 9a s l,',reed er v aild amount to a reduction of he town of Galway ; and the Speaker Va ea , i r '',l' c o 7 a !N N s eo nsideration, which would be t _ tie N s v aid ed ,_ • Id. to £2,888,771 I4s. Id. , Vesi e 4 e v ii sits 'Y moving an amendment to thi e t i ' o rf et pisth i ' l ' l VN.a.E said that it would be quit, bo at et 'llddl ese g like the reduction proposed e ef i vsit a , a Y r eass .x . A reduction of 19,000 tney s i tes ee ‘vaie in reason that he was sure the coma ..ois te .L o th e a "PPorttog the vote of his right r ei ,,, atee ment. Ar, e4 e it the n divid d dth ss i llstil ye etaiment e, an e numbers ma , I , ci t f tli e The Speaker resumed the chair at 5 0 c `) rt 0, , e ' Mr. O'CONNELL said, that as the re l ° 0 00 ) :" 1 1 , Laken before the Carrickfergos election e,.. to la lig i printed, he should feel it his imperative cle t bac JI house a bill for the disfranchisement of Ol die irr e l h committee were decidedly of opinion that ho stedf to issue to the present class of voters • -A s t o asc li if not bring the question distinctly before the P e f tire t „., of May, and as the term of the suspension f o rth e e expire on the 13th, he should move that it b e an} ' 9 ' 11 Q • until the Ist of June. He did not anticipate , .4, , o ‘ t )ri gi this arrangen . ...,nt. t W i P r 4 4 4141 ba • Majority r d t , t verl sen, (than Lord ALTHORP said, that from the rel . he ri• 0 P• o r ceg t vea r - was then agreed to. laid upon the table, it was quite clear that t de r t° of 0. t h 4 -(oli t i "loped and th or he 14 .111 ay ,e report was or, rough in question ought to be suspended ill of t . 1 , 0 ,ii,,, Toy .• f: ,,,„,i,,, 5 , Moved that a select committee for further information. The term, howeverot tote ought not, in his opinion, to be protracted lelheP;.B Eals, a`.4e all "e Pal, and emoluments of ge e t that 13 jots h e erta• I li g Y, a•ur • cessary ; and be therefore would sugges d t ins it, / ki , blit il J' Ivha,.als and colonels of marines, wit vt be fixed, instead of the Ist of June, ao 0 to would allow the hon, and learned genthol:la , i tlieNts(::„.&;,,servicel'Laving might be effected withot bill previously. , a 1,,,, , klnulth'wooo Agreed to. Mr. O'CONNELL agreed to this s uggcsti e d ",;f lo''',.: ‘ , ' •er,e t ,'lllit 'liter, loved' for returns of the name ordered to be further suspended till the 22n i i it ier; / } ) ioile,;' l ltry ° t l o £lo,4 k on the Bank books Mr. O'CONNELL asked the right hon. L' tut O ~ p ie 4,44., fo r ) and upwards. His ob'e t the Treasury Why the Irish population r c c h t tbei iN g ' 4 r. ol ' iliameta,judgment on the motives e th w moved for were not yet printed. He thout,bstracoollealoti4) oers in certain recent votes.—( t th e 3,tool,altrt,t,t,:,:eoxtlii,-,:tigt,stritLh.darsalli at the suggestion of L been made out much earlier, since presented last session only required corr e-1 purpose. times..o r p r est , 0 so inquisitorial a cir Mr. S. RICE said that he believed much Le , ie ktP,bri,4l,,Y4te,i case could justify its ado Ai p ' pied in correcting the returns, but that to ' t ol the lat,,io 4 C . conversation on the fines wile in coeo,g‘reyq..foli,ie 44 ,,00 g e b e t . (2r1(33,i(1 his motion for committee: i coining very shorty , clock), when the house was Mr. - Alderman '1 HONIPSON stated, that be L . , o w r 4 At 4 tale ,tnigs intimation he had received from the noble ''''' 'tioa f 0` i t 'lligth they merited, it impossible for him to enter upon the dig h eu e s et ab g et 1 : 4 0151 8 op r• to move the appointment of which stood for that evening, relative to t . 0 et, Q l a , • citir ß y___ A vessels, he was compelled to postpone it. o ea b's / 1 attl 'lli kr git 4 sa id th GRICULTIRAL AND C .A.,k1(1., !tir.., tees t _ . at in rising to move the I Mr. Hume for the same reason, potP.°4le, five to the recent proceedings at Coutann°,,ortg_aa`iF;‘)e4:!itpi,?!iot,re",.!tiquire separately into the s subject of his motion to be of so much i- r i . "aciP/ retio:,:e3,i,"°.; i ncest •, and 2d, into the state of t hoped he should have the opportunity of iu t ° tli e t :s h g. r r li Y fa r ii r i est of the country, said th day next. late, ztlq i , ir Y exp 6 re og forward his ismotion he yit r tha t to k e to le t , 11 b t i n ,, i 'll to enter into any argumer Lord ALTHORP assured the hon. mero be n s ne t cretary for Foreign Affairs was so very ill tor e tt4yttert.', ( loudssed to him that house , speak for five minutes consecutively. ( the 1/3005 h0 t ,,,,k,',ui0n,,. cries of " Hear,") not hi Colonel DAvIEs postponed a motion iri t ii , qkek t'•d le a ,l an y t very sanguine expectati we could not learn) he had fixed for to-,d t qoret,d 4 ?Ila i li hlti iii was hiso any material benefit.—(l s . e hr e Nereace flat all instituted would so fa the indisposition of the noble Secretary- o r . ~ he a ? ' l l)r tii t efe 'Y b e Own opinion, he still thou; Mr. Hume said that ou a previous eve i r t Ve Pe tip , I 1.1 at e ?1ie......, 1 the expectations of that attention of the house to the filling UP ° Admiralty Court. lie had now to express 0 o f t e g e to 1 ) , 8 ;ad, , , s k ear, hear.) He divided hi N o 4 1+1 , I ‘ 4 ll 4 ,i' i o :lyinced that the division of I th ol t 4 l N . .t iN ,,,:t results. The only different fice wouia not be filled up until the oPin i° • to b o°l been taken with regard to the proper sal ar ilatis e ' P t ef tii , s oti;?ob i ? the inquiry into the shipp had ascertained , from returns made to thc,,.. ) , 0 0 1 ,;0 0 est s, b f th,,J! , itig,' was that which might ari, i'v of the Judge of the Admiralty was in 1` ,00, g a t, se a A ro e f ora tel y Jet t Iv ' ended that all who took an That salary was afterwards increased to Il e did 10 t'iii l :, ere jets into the manufacturing and raised to its present amount, 1:2,50k 1 1 4ll e te find that the business of the court had ilic h r e i ", 0° P lat. t iire .t4li° Qiild agree with him, that the s amount of salary; on the contrary, theY v e t t he 0 " c,s-1,511t0 the 1 to warrant a separate in each other, and he, therefore, thought th''' . le o IN, e !'d 4,„s st „ t, that the following committee' reduction. of tl e a ties bey p filth "t ' of the •agriculture of the I: W . , or t i U • Edward Ellice, Sir 11 kin Lord ALTHORP replied, that the dude ti vi ' e a ; \ kr i :, ) ( totl, e r e l, Alf Sir James Graham, Lord JI Coon pr o 4 :\ N il, v t , p, dmeiie, Sir John Sebright, I certainly light during the time of peac e '., e vcobaby. heavy in time of war. The question, tr . \,, , r i r ,ule ) , , rOvn, Sir J. Dalrymple, Mr consideration of government, and- it w e on th e 7 of , t duty to submit sonic measure to the hous e roin o ar o ri ) At . N Vtlw o.ri rr C. Lemon, Mr. R. Cli Mr. J. JERVIS wished, as there was ,a th e it det i; I ,ls , ‘‘ l. 11 4 hitt no .. Knatchbull, Mr. Sanford, in the Court of Exchequer, to know wo e h or ,t, Nit. 11 , 11 41, B .!°, Mr. Bennett, Mr. mil tiou of government to fill that vacancY T e d to ,alYf ~Q41;5 , ,:•,,,tte nti1 1.. 0 . Heathcote, Mr. M. Al bill about to be brought in it was inter' is O d a t l ' C 4,11.9. , Si r ,r . t , Mr. Childers, Sir Wil the judgeships. If the business of the c°Y r sa atli c f .th o 'llkit te Murray,al Mr. Roberts and pti 41, AtertstsqltiOrt by 14 judges, why should the county ; b' „ r e ° ,01. 5 b esu e w as , . a lP a ouited without observatic of select committee be apr pense of 15 ? Lord ALTHORP replied that he wag f the ot ae‘ c otif t .'1,1),R tat e i3 1 , (1 , r1 . th cancy having occurred in the judgeship ° boa' k tf,, 4 l-1., , our commercial, manuft: quer. (A laugh.) r the i ' Peo er ' , % v "° h On the order of the day being read ie l* t he ? o , l Zik l th, s Praeticoapied that this committee w ' a committee of supply.oil cl, ~i“ ti .1 41 %Li tt dY acquainted with the ci .hint lira tL4 can 0 ? ry. Mr. COBIIETT rose to make a comp ari a Ic e .ere hi s s aid th a t working classes of England, Scotland, bthe y 0 a11 i V 4 1 ,414, 1 , gri eu i,_ as he had put some ni of the great partiality of taxation, of whi c r or 0 01 0 0. 1 1 1 .` ° 1 fo r d,. ge _s. l ial nriQ L ,, s rl committee he thou.. • They complained of the various duties for paY ola ti°,. lle. 4 t (/;n. The2uld not be composed c o • which were laid upon them, and from the ► kpq • y,,ear.) committee was to of tP greater part of which the richer portion aattc, o c cm, ~o the' that the peculiar vi 1 -4 ' shipping interest rend French capital at the time; nor did he direct his despatch as an official communication ; it was, therefore, a private communi cation. He put it to noble lords to say whether i n a n y case the communication could be properly laid before Parliament? This was not a communication with a responsible minister, but with the King of the French. He did not doubt that the noble lord's account of the conversation was strictly accurate and correct according to his impression at the time, but every body knew that all verbal communications admitted of doubt. and . uncer tainty as to the precise meaning of the parties. Under these circumstances, he felt considerable doubt as to the propriety of producing the paper in question. He, therefore, hoped that, for the present at least, the noble earl would consent to with draw his third resolution. There was another document, which was probably referred to in the noble earl's resolutions, which he did not think would be of material use if produced, and which, forming as it did a subject of discussion in the Fr ench Chambers, he thought it would be better not to furnish. It was impossible for him (Earl Grey,) in the present situation of af fairs, to go into any discussion whatever on this subject; he ad mitted its importance, but offered no opinion as to the nature of the documents in question. When they should be laid be fore the house, their lordships could form their own opinions. With respect to the general state of the affairs of Turkey, he could assure the noble earl that ministers were as sensitive as himself to all the interests, both British and European, con nected with the state of that empire ; and, further, that they would endeavour to do their duty to the utmost of their power in supporting those interests. For the present, he should only declare that he and his colleagues had acted on the firm con viction that they were taking the course best calculated to main tain the general peace of Europe, and support the honour and interests of England. (Cheers.) At present, he should add no more than that he gave his assent to the two first resolutions, but, for the reasons stated, hoped that the noble earl would not persevere in urging the third upon the house. The Earl of ABERDEEN, in reply, said that, after what had fallen from the noble earl, he would not press further for the production of those papers which the noble earl had objected to laying before their lordships. He admitted that there was great weight in what the noble earl had urged with respect to - the non production of one of them ; but lie did not think that his objec tion to the production of the other was equally strong. It might not, however, be desirable to call for that paper after the state ment of the noble earl, and therefore lie would not press for it. The motion, as amended, was then agreed to, and the house adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, MAY 2. The SPEAKER entered the house shortly before 4 o'clock, but in consequence of the ballot for the Lincoln city election com mittee, the gallery was not opened until half-past 4 o'clock. The Bury St. Edmund's and East Norfolk election petitions, which were ordered to be also taken into consideration this day, were abandoned. Mr. RICHARDS presented a petition from the Lord Mayor and householders of the city of Dublin, agreed to at a public meeting, praying for the introduction a a system of poor laws into Ireland. A message from the House of Lords announced that their lordships had agreed to the London and Birmingham Railway Bill, with certain amendments, and to several private bills. Mr. Hunu gave notice, that he would, on Friday next, on the question of the house going into a committee of supply, take the opportunity of asking the Secretary for Foreign Affairs some questions respecting the recent proceedings at Constan tinople. Colonel TonitENs, in pursuance of his notice, moved the repeal of those taxes which lower the profits of capital and the wages of labour. Lord ALTHORP said he did not purpose, on the present occa sion, to enter upon a discussion respecting the expediency of altering the taxation of the country. The question was purely a scientific one. He could not, under the existing circum stances, consent to the proposition. The motion was then put and negatived, Colonel Z orrens not being inclined to press it to a division. Mr. W. WHITMORE fixed his motion on the corn laws for Monday, the 13th of May. Sir R. PEEL said, that observing no symptom of any move ment en the part of the hon. member for Oldhatn, with respect to the notice he gave about a month since of a motion for au address to the Crown, recommending his (Sir R. Peel's) dis missal from the office of Privy , Councillor, he wished to know whether it was the hon. member's intention to pursue it. He (Sir It. Peel) was present the other night when the motion was called over, but the hon. member allowed it to take its course, being neither . present himself nor deputing any friend to ex plain what his intentions were with respect to it. Was the no tice to be considered a mere flash in the pan? (Hear, hear.) Or was it really intended to be brought forward? What he (Sir IL Peel) wished to know was, whether the hon. gentleman meant to revive the dropped motion, and, if so, when he in tended to bring it forward. Mr. COBBETT said that he fully intended to bring forward his motion on Tuesday last, the day fixed for it; but the right hon. baronet would please to recollect that on that evening the house sat till 3 or 4 in the morning, when it would have been ridicu lous to introduce the motion. However, he could assure the right hon. baronet that he was perfectly in earnest. The right hon. baronet need be under no apprehension on that score, at least. The dropping of the motion was no fault of his (Mr. Cobbett's). He knew it could not come on on the day fixed, and therefore did not conceive it necessary to give any notice on the subject. But, to prevent the possibility of there being any further doubt as to his intention, he had brought a new no tice with hitu, couched in the same terms as the last, by which he fixed his motion for the 13th of this month, that being the very earliest day he could fix, owing to the great press of busi ness before the house. Mr. O'CONNELL moved the further suspension of the writ for the Carrickfergus election for six weeks. IRISH POOR LAWS. Mr. RICHARDS, on rising to submit the motion of which he had given notice respecting a provision for the poor of Ireland, could not help feeling under considerable embarrassment from the notion he entertained of its importance. The subject was a difficult—an important one, and all who had witnessed or heard of the dreadful scenes of bloodshed, violence, and murder, which rendered property and life insecure in Ireland, must at least admit the necessity of an inquiry for the purpose of ascer taining whether the establishment of a provision for the poor of Ireland would not have a tendency to ameliorate the unfor tunate condition of that country. They had the evidence of their own committee to show that famine and destitution were the almost invariable visitants of the Irish poor, and that such was their destitution, owing to the want of employment and a means of existence, they perished annually in thousands. The hon. gentleman concluded with moving "That it is the opinion of this house that the establishment of a provision for the poor of Ireland, on the principle of the act 43d of Elizabeth, with such alterations and improvements as time and circum stances may require, is expedient and necessary to the interests of the Unifed kingdom." Mr. J. GRATTAN seconded the resolution. He had ever held, that till the poor of Ireland were secured against famine and its consequences, it was vain to-expect tranquillity in Ireland, and every day's experience was a too painful corroboration of his opinion. He would confidently rest his case on this single prin ciple—that a man uncertain of his daily bread—a starving man —was necessarily a savage, that is, incapable of that prospective and temperate course of conduct which was the essential condi tion of peace and prosperity. If they wished to retain Ireland as an essential and profitable portion of the empire, they must induce the Irish people to respect the laws, and to induce them to respect the laws they must feel them to be protective, con ciliatory, just, and impartial. The hon. member concluded by expressing a hope that the reformed House of Commons would adopt a measure which would make them live in the grateful recollection of the people of Ireland. Lord ALTHORP said that the proposition which had been sub mitted to the house was one of the greatest possible importance, and therefore required the gravest consideration, and he certainty thought that, considering the evils which it was acknowledged (lid exist in the system of poor laws established in this country, it would have been advisable not to have proposed a resolution declaring that poor laws ought to be introduced into Ireland, without explaining in what way those evils were to be avoided in the latter country. He was not going to offer any direct op position to the motion of the hon. member, but he wished to caution the house not to allow themselves to be carried away with this idea—that because distress existed in Ireland, it fol lowed as a matter of course that the introduction of the poor laws into that country would remove it. All that he wished was that the house should not run hand over head in support of the hon. member's motion, without ascertaining what effect would result from the introduction of poor laws, what probability there was of avoiding the abuses which were connected with the sys tem existing in England, and above all, without ascertaining (and this was a material point, although it had been entirely passed over by the hon. member) whether there were not at present existing in Ireland charitable institutions for the relief of distress, the scope of whose usefulness might be considerably extended. All these were points which ought to be inquired into. It would also be necessary to inquire whether the con dition of the poor in Ireland differed from that of the poor in England, and if so, whether the difference wa s disadvanta g eous to the former; and then again arose the question, would this \: ~ 1" 4_ \ \ __ _