The Sun. — London, England, 1857-12-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PAR LIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORI S—(YEsTERDIY.) I The Loan CHANoELLOB , tooik his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. IMMIGRATION OF TREE NEGROES. _ The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, seeing the noble earl the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, called his a ttwat . i n on th to e the scheme for the immigration of free Negroesi Shaft French colonies. it had coins to his (Earl dee bury's) knowledge that a decree had be issue y the French Government for the purpose of carrying th e scheme into effect. The question he begged to ask was, whether it was true that any such decree had been issued t The Earl of CLARENDON said be was gratified in being able to inform their lordships that the decree to which the noble earl referred had no existence, but he believed that certain contracts had been entered into with several firms, and which agreements had received the assent of the French Government on the understanding that it should be a bona fide immigration of free negroes. Now, it was impossible for such a con - dition to be fulfilled, as there was no such thing as free immigration from Western Africa. We ourselves had tried the scheme 18 years ago, lithe negro had been treate d with every comfort, and h ad had his return to his native country guaranteed to him, but the plan utterly and signally failed. It was felt that the further trying the plan would lead to the revival of the slave trade, and the project was finally abandoned. The plan adopted by the French Government was, that a number of African chiefs were to supply a certain number of negroes on board ship, and a form was gone through of aaking those ne groes whether they were willing, for a certain amount of money, to work in a French colony for a limited period. Now, it was perfectly clear that, under such circumstances, there could be no free choice, and the contractors to the French Government were broughtinto contact withthe regular Spanish slave dealers. Theßritish Government had entered into communication with the French Government on the point, and the subject had been considered by the French Government, in order to bring the grievance to an end. The French Government had informed her Majesty's Ministers that although there was in fact no treaty on the subject, yet they intended to act as if it was in existence, and they further solemnly declared there was no intention of reviving the slave trade, bat that they were as anxious at the present moment to put a stop to the infamous traffic as they were when they signed the declaration in 1815, for the suppression of the slave trade. The Earl of DERBY did not for an instant doubt the sincerity of the French Government, but he felt that the scheme of free immigration was a perfect delusion, and was in fact but the revival of the slave trade in another form. The Earl of CLA.RENDON said he believed there was no intention on the part of the French Government to forcibly put an end to the project. Earl GREY was also of opinion that the scheme could lead to nothing else but a revival of the slave trade. When he held the seals of the colonial department be was con stantly urged to permit a trial of the scheme, but he had invariably refused. He hoped her Majesty's Ministers would keep the subject in view and not allow it to sleep. The subject then dropped. EARL GRANVILLE AND THE EARL OF DERBY. The Earl of DERBY—As this, my lords, is the lad I day—if Ibe correctly informed—upon which we are I likely to meet before the recess, I may be allowed to seize the present opportunity of making a few observa tions in reference to the extraordinary controversy which has arisen out of a statement which I made on the open ing night of the session. I may, perhaps, before pro ceeding to the particular statement to which I refer, remark that I was led into an inaccuracy—although it was one of no impedance so far as my argument was concerned—in stating that one of the first offers made to the Government upon the part of the company to trans port troops across the Isthmus of Suez was made by the directors of the company, that offer having, as I am now informed, been made by another company. The offer was made in the month of July, and was rejected ; and I cannot help remarking that it is somewhat singular that in the papers which have been laid within the last few days upon the table of the house a letter of the Governor-General of India, dated August 7. appears, in which he states that if the Government at home were not in communication with the Peninsular and Oriental Steam-packet Company the Government of India were. Another mistake into which I was led was that of stating that the last offer of the Peninsular and Oriental Com pany to convey troops to India across the Isthmus of Suez was made in the latter end of August, whereas I find from the letter of Mr. Wilcox that it was made on the 6th of September. Now, my lords, with reference to the main points involved in the controversy which has taken place between my noble friend opposite (Earl Granville) and myself as to a certain letter alleged to have been written to the Peninsular and Oriental Com pany by the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control, I can oily say that even up to the present moment I am at. a loss to account for the discre pancy which exists between my noble friend's denial of the justice of my statement, and the infor mation upon which that statement was basal. As my noble friend Lord Hard wicke men tioned to your lordships on a former evening, I expressed my disbelief in the possibility that the story in reference to the President of l the Beard of Control could be true, when it was mentioned to me by my noble friend in the country. When I came up to tow;, however, I heard the same statement made in another quarto!, and I nen began to think if nee...ls:try to make some inquiry jet° the matter, and I now hold in nay hand a latter which I received frcm the gentleman who was my informant, in answer to one which I addressed to him on the subject. I should rather not mention the name of the writer of the letter, and perhaps it will be sufficient to assure your lordships that he is a man of station and positior. The first pert of the letter refers to the refusal upon the part of the Government to accept the offer of the company, and it then proceeds to state the circumstance which is the subject of the controversy —namely, that the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control actually wrote a letter to one of the directors of the company—Mr. Anderson—to know whether it was possible to organize a scheme for cede - ine troops by means of their steamers ; to which the reply was, it was not only possible, but that the thing had been already done. I still, however, thought, my lords, that there must be a .me mistake, and I tequaeted my informant to go back to Mr. Anderson and ascertain still more clearly whether or not the statement was cor rect. He informed me that Mr. Anderson had left England on his aay to the East, but he came to me about 11 o'clock on the night before Parliament itesern- ' bled and mentioned to me that be bad eon Mr. another of the directors of the comeaey, who had can firmed what he had said in reference to Mr. Anderson's having made the statement in question. I, my lords, being under the impression—not only upon the authority of the gentleman to whom I elude, but because the mat ter was talked of in more than one quarter —that he had done so, thought myself justified in referring to the sub ject in this house on the first night of the session. Tee accuracy of my statement upon that occasion having been impugned by the noble earl opposne, however, I requested my informant to write to Mr. Anderson, whose I believed to be still in Paris, pointing out the cir cumstance that a coatradictien had been given to an as sertion made upon his authority, and asking him testae Low the facts of the ems!, really stood. The centradiction of my noble friend opposite was given on the Monday, and on Taeaday a letter, a copy of which I hold in my band, war addressed to Mr. Anderson in accordance with my desire. I am, however, afraid that Mr. Alder son has left Paris, inasmuch as no answer to this letter has been received, and I may observe in passing that it seems to me to be not a little remarkable that, although that gentleman was, I believe, in Paris on the Jay when the newspapers containing the reports of the debates which took place on the first night of the session, must have reached that city, inasmuch as be has written thence to England since that time, yet he never repu diated, eves in the slightest degree, the truth of the allegation which has led to this controversy. (Hear.) Now, my lords, I hold in my hands a letter from Mr. Allen, which I received yesterday, and which, after re ferring to the circumstance of Mr. Anderson's absence from England, goes on to state that from the impression which exists in his own mind, coupled with the subse quent declarations of the right hon. gentleman the Pre sident of the Board of Control, "he has no hesitation in saying there must be some misapprehension upon the point on the part of his colleague." Your lordships, then, will at once perceive that while Mr. Allen is dis posed to give full credit to the denial of the President of the Board of Control, he recognises in hie note the exis- j tence of an impression in the mind of Mr. Anderson that a communication such as I stated passed between him and the right hon. gentleman. Now, how a matter of that nature can be the subject of mere impression I can not understand. Whether such a communication did or did not take place ought to be known to Mr. Anderson one way or the other. This, however, my lords, is the position in which the matter stands at present. It may become the subject of future inquiry ? but, be that as it may, I feel b oun d to give the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control the full benefit of the Explanation which has been made by my noble friend oppo site in his behalf, and at the same time to express my regret for having made against him a charge which, if true, could not b u t be inj ur i ous t o hi m as a pu bli c man . (Hear, hear. ) beof After e; what I have said I tr u st yo ur lordships will psztnnteat I did not make that ' charge, I will not say believing it to be correct —for there would be but little merittrfiea that—but wain ou t acting on such informatio n as justified me in think. in g th a t the charge was not c a p a b le of contradiction. Hear, hear.) Earl GRANVILLE—I felt quit e satisfied, ray lords, from the very se nirueticeneent of thi s controversy that my noble friend did not snake the state ment to which he refers without firmly believing it to be well founded. And after what has fallen from my noble friend this evening, I can quite understand his supposing that he had sufficiently good grounds for making ose of a story which must have been to him a ver y tempting one to us e in the course of debate. (A laugh.) At the sa for the t me r I entirely deny that there was any ground whateve r the statement respecting this letter. When the nobl e ea rl t opposite made th e c h arge t,foro yo ur lordship I sent word to the P res id ent o f t h e B oar d o f Control and as ked him whether it was true or net. The answer I received was, that it was untrue. Of course, therefore, I contra dicted it, but in consequence of the extreme positiveness of the noble earl's manner, and the positive face ho put upon it (a laugh), knowing, too, how often and how easily mistakes and misunderstandings arise, I did not con- j tradict him so decidedly as I might have done, but contented myself with a simple denial of the charge, and refrained from reeking any vehement assertions, Subsequently ------------ I raw the President of the Board of I Control, and he told me he bad not the slightest recol lection of writing suoh a letter and receiving such a reply • that he had questioned hie private secre tar y and the Secretary of the Board of Control with the same resalt ; and that he had put himself in communication with the Peninsular and Oriental Company on the subject, with what results your lordships are aware. Yet, the gentleman with whose name we are unacquainted not only informed the noble earl that he had received this information Irons Mr. Anderson, who has gone abroad, but eaid be would inquire from another person con nected with the company, as to the facts, and returned with the statement that Mr. Allen declared that it was perfectly true. The Earl of DERBY—I did not say that this gentle man stated that Mr. Allen declared the information to be perfectly true, but that Mr. Allen knew Mr. Ander son had made such a statement. The Earl of GRANVILLE—It appears to me been written and I beg, therefore, to protest e alto gether perfectly impossible that such a letter shou a lt a h i a n v s e t the burden being laid en Mr. V. Smith of making any f ur ther attempts to clear his character.hear.) Having said thus much, I beg t o acknowledge most cordially the honourable manner in which the noble . earl opposite, not being able to substantiate.thit s aon. ccusat inn, and after the declaration ma de b y my gh h on the subject, has expressed fo r himself his own feelings ri frd on the subject. THE INDEMNITY BILL. On the motion for the third reading of this bill, Lord OVERSTONE presented a petition from Bris tol in favour of the principle of the Bank Charter Act. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said that their lordships were aware, from the speech from the throne, that the immediate cause for which Parliament had been called together before the usual time was to propose a bill of indemnity for the violation of an Act of Parlia ment. Their lordships were also aware of the principle on which the Act of 1844 had been passed. The object of that act was to secure the country against the recur rence of those financial convulsions and commercial crises which disturbed the country in former periods ; to secure the country from the excess of paper issues ; and also to secure the convertibility of the notes into gold. In 1847, however, three years after the passing of that act, a monetary disturbance occurred, in conse quence, as he believed, of the extensive railway trans actions which took place and the large amount of money which was absorbed in the purchase of corn, and her Majesty's Government felt it to be their duty to issue a letter authorising the directors of the Bank of England to depart from that provision of the act which obliged them not to extend their note issues beyond 144 millions. The effect of the letter then written was such as to dissipate very speedily the alarm which then prevailed. The sanction of Parliament was asked and given to the act, of the Government on that occasion. Sir R. Peel, the chief author of the act of 1844, then stated that the main object of the act was to secure the convertibility of the bank note, and that it had suc ceeded in that object, and that he never contemplated that it would be a complete guarantee or security against the recurrence of them commercial difficulties and financial crises which must more or less exist in every country where commotion and credit had been extensively developed. On the motion of Mr. Herries, the House of Commons passed a resolution expressing the approval of Parliament at what the Government had done. He would therefore take it for granted, that Parliament and the country were of opinion that the Government and the country were justified in adoptive the course they then took, and since that period he believed it would be admitted that the act had corn pfetely succeeded in the two essential points for which it was passed, namely, in preventing the over issue of paper, and securing tee convertibility of the bank note. It had not succeeded in preventing the occurrence of financial crisis, bat he believed it was not within the power of human legislation to frame such a law as would prevent the recurrence of these crises. Situated as this country was, carryine on an extensive commerce with all parts of the world, and therefore liable to be acted on by the monetary panics ani commercial distress of other countries, whether arising from unwise legislation or ether cirenrestancee, it was impossible for any legislation to afford security arainet, the occurrence of monetary pressure here. The unlimited issue of paper in the United States unchecked by Government and uncontrolled by government paper, protlezed a state of things which re eulted in great cornmercia: disturbance and convulsion. The condition in the United states reacted on England, hut the pressure here was not of equal severity because there was in this country a well regulated paper circula ti en which was convertible into gold. In Hamburg, how. ever, which had a purely metallic currency, the pressure had beer extremely severe. It was, evident, therefore, that neither the excessive paper issues of America, ncr the purely metallic currency of Hamburg was able to cave a country from periodical commercial distress. The crisis through which they had passed began with the failure of the Borough Bank of Liverpool, which was followed by the failure of the house of Mr. Dennistoun of Glasgow, and the Western and City of Glasgow Banks. If the state of things iu 1347 justified the interference of the Government on that occasion, the state of affairs in 1857 afforded the present Government still stronger grounds for interference. as a comparison of the position of the Bank of England at both periods would prove.. On the 27th Oct. in the first period the bullion was 8,337,0001., and on the 11th Nov. this year, 7,171,0001. The reserve of notes in 1347 was 1,547,0001., and in 1857, 957.0001. In 1847 the bankers' deposit.; were 8,530,0001. ; in 1857 they reached 12,935,000/. In the first-named year the private securities were 19,467,000/.; this year they reached a maximum of 20,113,000/. Such was the state of things on the 11th Nov., and on the 12th the Government, on their own reqmnsibility, and from a full consideration of the urgency of the case, issued their letter. All discounting having ceased, and with a res. rve of only 151,0001. in notes in the Bank of England, he would leave it to their imaginations to con ceive what would have followed if the Government had delayed any longer to issue the letter. (Hear.) He believed that no Government, under the circumstances which then existed, could have ventured to insist on the carrying out of the act for 21 hours longer without pro ducing irretrievable ruin. (dear, hear.) And such an act of daring would bring down upon tee Government the censure of Parliament. (Hear, hear.) The Bank of England were obliged to act on the authority given to them, for 2,000,0001. had been transferred from the issue to the banking department. On the 12th Nov. one milieu had been transferred, and on the next day another million was transferred. But the Act of Parliament was only technically violated to the extent of tv:o millions, because that amount of notes over and above the 141 millions had not been given out to the public, and in a e n, ;et time the note circulatioe was reduced to the amount at which it stood lefore the letter of the Government was issued. On Nov. 14 the excess of notes out to the public was 622 7 0001 , and it increased to 923,0001 on the 20:h. On the nlet the issue was reduced to 617,0001, s n 1 it went on decrealing till Dee. 1, when the amount of notes remained a s before the act had been inf. inged. On Dec. 10—that was t ) say last night—the bullion in the Bank was 3,200,0001., and the reserve 4,650,000/. This benefic'al effect, which had been produced by the Government let;.er, was, he believed, in no small degree owing to the Government not having given permissi,:n to transgress the law at an earlier period, The rao4, important part of the act of 1344 was that it produced a rise in the rate of discount, which righted the exchanges, and prevented gold from leaving the country. Before her Majeaty's Government issued the letter the exchanges had already taken a turn ; the export of gold was checked, and since thee, instead of gold going oat, it had been gift lually coming into the country. It would be matter for consideration in any future legislation whether it should not be declared that no relaxation of the act should take place till the exchanges had taken a turn. i The Government having taken the responsibility of authorising the directors of the Dan': of England to vio late the act of 1844, came before the house for an in- ' demnity of that act, and for the directors of the Bank fur having acted under that authority. Thera was a pre , vision in this act to which the noble earl objected, naan. lf, the provision which ex'ended the privilege of issuing notes beyond the 14.'1 millions fur 23 days alter the n xt meeting of Parliament, but he thought the noble earl misapprehended the effect of that provision, because it would be competent for the Bank directors to reduce the rate of discount when they thought fit—the note issues have fallen within the statutory limit. It had been said —he thought too hastily—that the act of 1344 was no longer of any value, and that they ought to revert to the state of things which existed before 1844, or adopt some other course. Bet he thought that experience, so far from showing that the act was useless and might be g o i i n n a p d ie t t n 0 t 7 r yv o u , d e sr u uto e i :b e cp r i el paper. a:pie:rode. of the ti s uhn a e iads note io i cn t tuer e i as o nun n ged l t lc the f effect hiendeeptd rwi e on , . abrogated, only showed that it was n o t a bl e t o e ff ect th a t ts it or c i whichbnt that i v o e th n e t i r o p n o o i n f t t s h — e t o h v e e r c o i i n s securing these two objects he should be sorry g 'f . were disposed to get rid of the act b ecause a portion r s o o f n f s t had been suspended. But it would be desirable seriously to consider whether it would not be necessary to intro duce some new provision with the circumstances and conditions under which such a relaxation should be exercised. Whether it should be effected by the Govern ment on its own responsibilisy by letter, or by an Order in Council, subject to the approval of Parliament, or by the self-operation of the Act when the rate of discount was 10 per cent —these were matters well worthy of the consideration of Parliament. (Hear.) There were also other circumstances which required consideration, as the circulation of one-pound notes in Scotland and Ireland, which no doubt aggravated the pressure on the Bank of England. Eli, noble friend (Lord Monteagle) expressed his opinion that it would diminish the extent of the evil if the one-pound note circulation of Scotland and Ireland were done away with. Tne banks in those countries sent up for gold in order to make themselves safe, the result of which was that the Beek of England, at a moment of great emergency and agony, sent three mil lions of sovereigns to the Scotch and Irish banks. It would also be matter for consideration whether the fre quent publications of the Bank of England might not have a tendency to aggravate the evil. These matters were worthy of grave consideration, and be should be glad to see an, inquiry by a committee of the house : 1. 1( 5 , the causes which led to the fi nanc i a l an d commerci a l ~ i,s-7-into the mode in which th e j o int-stock banks a d noalater ed their concerns, and how far bear on the subject. 1 ~e ___ c , a He should be glad, therefore, to He "hua,ja committeestated ath appointed when they met again. 1 the Government et reasons which he thought justified They believed that taking the course they had done. I they averted a greatyditsaking the step they had done circumstances, it would have been ; and that, under these fain the strict. letter of the Act. lie impossible to main beet the house would assent to the He trusted, therefore bill. (Hear, hear.) a third reading of the Er.ri GREY . said he did not r i se f or the - hie the third reading of the bill, b Purpose of Opp ~, , s, ~ eeauss, though dispo . e•d to a;533 in principle with his noblofriend near him kE.,-;r1 Oi'critnae), he knew that practically it was not in the power of any government to carry it out. It Wa3 the duty of parliament, therefore, to grant a bill of indemnity to the government for what they had done, and to the Bank directors for having acted on their advice. What ho wished to direct attention to on the present occasion wa3 the unsatisfactory state in which the currency law would be left if this bill pased with out being followed up by further and prompt legislation. He was glad to hear from his noble friend who had just sat down that the views of her Majesty's government were somewhat altered since his noble friend the Presi dent of the Council addressed their lordships on a former occasion, who then informed them that her Majesty's government were of opinion that no further legislation was necessary. He was happy to observe the change, and to fi❑d that the government now saw there were se►eral subjects with respect to which the existing law might be improved, and, he hoped, further legislation called for. - - Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said he did not go to the extent which his noble friend supposed. What he said was that there were many subjects deserving of consideration which must bear on the decision to be arrived at. Earl GREY said he was concerned to find that the government were not sufficiently alive to the necessity of further and prompt legislation on this subject, which he (Earl Grey) believed to be inevitable under the circumstances in which they now stoeol. The act of 1844 had now been suspended a second time, which destroyed all the moral force of that act. And that is the more manifest from what has since taken place. This bi'l had been recommended by her Majesty's government and supported by gentlemen of great weight, on grounds which would make it impossible for any future government to avoid taking the same course — hear)—because it had been laid down distinctly on both sides of the House of Commons that Government would deserve the deepest condemnation if they took any other course than the one they had adopted ; and further than that, they had not only an indemnity for the past, but a provision for the future. If after what had passed, the Act of 1844 was not followed up by further legislation, the act should be forthwith repealed and expunged from the statute book. You should not retain a law which it was the avowed intention of all parties to break when the circumstances arose which he thought would justify them in taking such a step. (Hear, hear) He ob jected net merely to this sort of a repeal of the provisions of the act, but to the repealing it at al!. By what they were doing they virtually sanctioned the principle that in periods of commercial distress it was legitimate on the part of the country to look for relief from that distress to an issue of paper money, regulated by certain principles and limited only by the discretion of the issuers and the wants of the borrowers ; in fact, they formed the sole restriction of the issue of paper ; that was virtually to take away the means of maintaining the standard of value add to abrogate that standard which had been estab lished by Parliament. They were told there could be no depreciation of the currency, no alteration in the stan dard of value, so long as they adhered to the principle cf convertibility. In the first place, experience proves that the currency may be depreciated notwithstanding its con. vertibility, but the depreciation will be to a limited ex tent in point of degree and of time, and as long as con vertibility was maintained the ultimate restoration of the currency was Ensured. But for a short time depreciation may take flies, and to a certain exttnt—and it had taken place at the present time. That had been shown by his noble friend Lord Overstone. He asked what was the mett , wre of the value of money but what it would buy The very day aler the Government letter was issued the prices of all commodities fell, and the rate of interest fsll also, so that there was an alteration in the value of money by the act of Government, Toe depre ciation which would take place with a convertible cur rency was moderate in degree and limited in point of time, but when they entered on this course how woull they ensure that they would be able to maintain the principle of convertibility. His noble friend had stated that it would have been impossible fur the Government to have taken the course they did if the exchanges were not in our favour ; if they had been adverse, the result would have been a drain on the Bank which wculd have exhau,ted its last sovereign. If once they taught the commercial world to look for an issue of paper-money as a means of relief, did they think they would be willing to forsgo that relief when a pressure came because the exchanges were against us, and when, of necessity, the pressure must be greater than it was when the exchanges were in our favour? Of c mine they would look for re lief; and precisely the same language would be need as at present. They would be tell " that convertibility was an abstract principle, which ought not to be allowed to stand in the way of the safety of the nation ; that the demand for gold abroad had arisen from accidental cit.- eunastanees ; that we should pr stsct ourselves, and avert national ruin." The same argumen aas had lately been used to induce the Government to suspend the act of 1814 wool I then be used to induce them to suspend cash payments. If they once admitted that in periods of commercial distress relief was to be looked for from an excessive issue of paper money, they could net hope that many years would go over their heads without a suspen sion cf cash payments : —that result would be very easily arrived at. Suppose a t period of distress arrived when the exchanges were not against them ; the country wanted money, and they departed from the rule; suppose that on the issue of paper circumstances arose which turned the exchanges against them, and they could not possibly be corrected unlegs by contracting the issue ; if that was done the result would be a greatzr pressure and greater difficulties than if the principle had been adhered to from the first- He feared they were abo'ut to make the first step oa w path on which when they were once launched each successive :Asp was men diTcult t be re sised, and which must lead to a suspeasiou o: cash payments. Let them lock to what took place on the last occasion of suspension, in 1797. Ha admitted it was then impossible for the Government to have taken any other course. , By the previous imprudence on the part of the Government and the Bank in the manage ment of paper money the country was brought to such a situation that it became necessary either to suspend cash payments by an order of the Government or allow the Bank to pay away its last sovereign. Had their lordships forgotten the fatal effects of that measure I Fer t'rne it did not proiuce any material consequence, but they knew that the country having once entered on the fatal course was led more and more to abuse its currency. The same argument as was lately used was urged then, that men with good hills bad a right to have them discounted ; but while men were contendii g that there could not be an excessive issue the currency diminished in value until the guinea came to be worth twenty-sevea or twenty-sight shillings ; and a very serious and a very great injustice WWI inflicted on cre ditors and others. When at last the nation became sensible of the imprudence of the course it had adopted, and determined to retrace its steps and re-establish the value of it; currency, it was found that clueing the int r vening years so many transactions hr. 1 taken place that those who had suffered from the originel injustice bene fited ver i l t.le .ay the change ; on the other ban 1, dur- ing the depreciation of the currency many transactions had been catered into, he nation had incurrel heavy as had aim; pi ivato indiviluahi, more especielly the landed interest, who in their efforts to meet the demand for corn had borrowed money for agricultural improvements, and by the change in the currency they were obliged to pay 20s. for every 15e. they had bur rowel—(hear, hear)—and sr had the nation. The coetequence was that while the oe , gnal injustice was piny partial, they committed agrc-s injuetica ou large portion of the nation, from the effects of which they still suffered and would suffer till the last hour of their existence. Ought not that to be a warnieg to theta not to commence a course which must lead to• a renewal of the difficul ties of 1797, and a suspension of cash payments ? He trusted that they would not, by passing thin bill, allow themeolves to be prevented from adopting some efficient means of reform of their system of currency. Ile would not then enter into the question of what that reform ought to be ; but he had no hesitation iu saying that a reform, to be complete, should be effected by carrying out to their legitimate conclusion the some] principles of the act of 1844. The first principle was that a paper currency ought to be assimilated as far as possible tola metallic one. It was rightly assemed that while a paper currency has a great advantage in convenience, yet for uniformity of value a metallic currency is euperior to my other. The value of any currency depends on its amount in proportion to the transactions to be carried out; that being the case, it was assumed that in order to make a paper currency equivalent to a metallic, the amount of it should be made to vary according to the wants of the country, precisely according to the same law as exi3e rience shows and determines the amount of a metallic cur rency. It was impassible arbitrarily to alter the amount of a metallic currency ; the tendency of the precious metal was to flow into or out of any country where the value had risen or fallen until the balance was restored, and if the value was temporarily altered in any country, it was soon made to conform to the general value, which was determined by the total amount. The tendency was so strong that no law prohibiting the exportation could pro duce any effect in preventing this self-adjustment. This being so it was necessary to devise a machinery which would preserve the paper currency at a uniform value. The mode adopted was to place the issue of it under such regulation as that the amount at anyone time in circula tion should vary according to the same proportion and from the same causes as affected the precious metal. This was effected in the act of 1314 by providing that beyond a fixed sum, far below the wants of the country, no paper money should be issued unless in exchange forgold ; and the Bank became a mere ministerial body to carry this out. The, principle was sound, but unfortunately the act of 1814 was defective in the machinery to carry out this object; it still left the issue of the paper money in the hands of the Batik of England, and created a false im pression in the minds of the public that as the Bank had a monopoly of the right to issue paper money it bad a right to provide for all their wants. As the same parties were dealers and issuere of paper money, the two func. tines were carried out in such a way as not to make it clear in which capacity the paper was issued. This was a source of great evil, If the principle was to assimilate the paper currenci to a metallic, the first thing to be done was to assimilate the two as to the authority by which they were issued. They allowed no private mint, so they ought to allow no money to be issued by a private individual—the Royal Mint, and a royal mint only; and as they tolerated no private coining, so they should not tolerate any private issue of paper. The private issue of paper was more dangerous than that of coin. They ougt t to put an end to all issues by the Bank of England, and the joint stock banks of England, Ireland, and Scot'anO, nod have one uniform issue by public authority. Ile believed that would prevent the recurrence of many evils, and disabuse men's minds of the pernicious idea that the Bank was a body from which assistance might be indo- finitely demanded. It would at the same time relieve the Bank from the necessity of making returns, the only effect of which was to create alarm ; and the directors would be left to deal with their capital as was best for their benefit and that of their shareholders, and people would have no more right to expect them to take measures TIRE SIN LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, DECENIBEII 12, iss,- to support credit than any private bank. He did not mean that the total amount of bullion lodged should be retained in the cellars. A certain quantity should be kept, and the remainder exchanged for stock or Exche queerbills' appointed The by the w r h o o;e ra l a n tl hold e dt h e his currencyoffi ne during should b good behaviour, so that in t i m e of pressure Govern ment ° fficer C might have no influence to induce hire to depart from t he strict rule. Hemight be asked whether this system woul d prevent the recurrence of periods of distress / He should say that no law of currency could guarantee againet a re currence of commercial distress. The present crisis was not brought about by any law, but it had arisen from the frightful spirit of speculation which hal taken possession of the commercial world, and the monatrous abuse of the system of credit in this country, an abuse which recent legislation had tended 0 aggravate. For his part, ho believed that in the long run it would be found that the interference of the government in support of commercial credit did more harm than good. Granting that extraordinary emergencies required extraordinary remedies, yet it was clear that the only mode in which government aid and assistance ought to be given to individuals was by lending them the support of the go vernment credit. Neither parliament nor the govern ment could create any additional property in the coun try ; all they could do was to transfer it from one hand to the other ; and if that were so assistance to the c nil mercial world had much better be given directly than indirec ly, by authorising the B an k to !oa k, excessive issue of paper. Let the government be authorised to issue stock or Exchequer Bills. He beli eve d th a t du r i n g the recent difficulties stock always sold high. Those who held stock could always got money. It was only those who had bills to be discounted who could net 'get it. This showed there was no deficiency of money in the country. Let them, if they would, autho r i se some mea t s of this kind to meet extraordinary emergencies, and not meet them by tampering with the standard of value. This issue of paper was nothing but the old resource of barbarous retire, the debasement of the coinage. They might as well issue base coin as i , sue paper money be yond the regulated amount. He would on l y t rou bl e th e i r lordship on one other point, which, however, was one of great importance. He had many years ago arrived at the conviction that the prohibition of small notes in this country was most injudicious, and no reform of the cur rency would be complete which did not provide for the circulation of one-pound notes in England as well as in Scotland and Ireland. He had taken great pains to make himself master of the reasons assigned, but they always appeared to bins inconclusive, and he saw no reason why, if they used the cheaper medium of paper in large exchanges, they should not use it in small ones also ; he never heard an argument against one pound notes which was not equally applicable to five and ten. By allowing pound notes, they would ren der unnecessary a large number of sovereigns, and only ren der their currency more secure. If he had time he could show it would increase the security of the whole paper currency, and would manifestly be attended with very great advantage; it would get rid of the absurd anomaly of allowing these notes in Scotland and Ireland, but for bidding them here. The law even went the absurd length of prohibiting them in the border counties, but it was violated every day with impunity, and in Northumber land no one ever attempted to stop them; he believed even a few notes of the Western Bank had got into that county. If one-pound notes were wrong get rid of them altogether, but if they were right let them circulate everywhere. Another advantage which would arise was, that it seculd afford them immense facilities for the with drawal of the present privil !ge from the Bank of England and other banks of izsue. In doing so they ought to treat them with justice and liberality, and see they were no losers. The issue of one-pound notes would eeable them to do this. They might be advanced to those barks in proportion as their own were withdrawn, and thus they would at length obtain the inestimeble advantage of having one national currency. The remarks of hie noble hind below him (Lord Monteagle) chewed that if they had hal a rational currency they would not have been exposed to the inconvenience arising from the recent de. mend forged I in Scotland and Ireland. The issue of one pound notes would, moreover, afford the country sen sible mild at a time when it was much required. The present disasters had been brought about by great im prudence of some, but still they pressed heavily not only on them, but on the whole community. Tee effects were visible on all sides—a number of men. were thrown out of work, and a general check given to industry and pre dilation for which there was other else no real reason- At this moment of pressure the issue of 1/. notes worn I afford great relief; it would displace some 30 or 40 mil. lions of sovereigns, and add to the national capital a large portion of that sum, aed thereby relieve the pres sure. He considered these were reasons why this subject should bo taken up by her Majesty's Government; and, without wait cg to inquire, they should introduce some measure when Parliament suet. He would not then enter more fully into the question ; but before he concluded, ho would urgently prese.on the Government the necessity of taking the subject into coneideration during the recess, and beieg prepared when Parliament re-a4sembleil to bring forward some measure on their own responsibility. He was glad to hear it was intended to have an inquiry into the 4 .1261N93 of the recent distress ; it was much waited, and might lead to useful results, but the state of the currency did not need inquiry ; they might go ou inquiring fur ten years and not get to the end of what people had to say. (blear, hear.) They could not expec. any further inf , rmation. They had all the facts before them, and all the moans of forming an opinion. Under these eh eamstances it was the duty of the Go vernment net to throw cn a Parliamentary committee the reepeneibility of devising mee:ures, but to take the, matter into their own hands and propose, on the part of the Crowe, such an alteration of the le Aas he believed w.:uld be for the public advantage. He did not wish them to do this at once, or without duo deliberation. He hoped that they would take time to consider, and that the result of that consideration would be satisfac tory to the country at large. No one else rising, The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question , and the third reading of the bill was agreed to neut. con. The bill then passed. Their lordships adjourned at a quarter after 7 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock. NEW MEMBERS. Mr. DKEDES took the oath and his scat for West Kent, and Mr. BAGSFIAW, jun., far Harwich. MAIN DRAINAGE OF THE MEITOPOLIS. Mr. LAURIE ailed the Fret Commissioner of Works, whether any, and if so, what steps had been taken for the purpose of carrying out so much of the Act 18 and 19 Vic., c. 120, as relates to tho main drain age of the metropolis. Str B. HALL at great length minutely entered into. the ht ,to of this question, from the passing of the act in 1855, up to tho present the partinlars of which have atready been made male through the press by reporting the proceedings before the Metropolitan Board of Works, and the conference bAwecn that board and the right hon. baronet. He said that what ha con tended for wan, that the Metr opo li tan B oar d o f Works were bound to cl,anse the Thames from the pollution that pa3setl through it in the metropolitan area, but the Metropolitan Board of Works contended that they wire only called on to carry out that which was generated in the metropolitan area generally, and not anything gene rated outside In answer to a queiiban from General CODRINGTON, Sir B. HALL sail that ircat raisappre on4ion prevailed with rt , ferace@ the outlet of the draioa;e What ha had alwaya co:Act:l e d for, and did now, was tha': the cntfalls should he at the p,int3 indicated in Captain B:rstlll'a report. NEW WRIT. A new writ was ordered Lr Whitohaven, in the room of Mr. HiLiyArd, deceased. ISTHMUS OF SUEZ, Mr. GRIFFITHS gave notice that on an early day after the recess he should call the attention of the Government to the application of the French Govern ment to the Turkish Government for permission to con• struct the Suez Canal. BARON RO LTSC Mr. T. DUNCO ABE gave notice that immediately after the recess he should call the attention of the house to the fact, that daring the two preceding sessions of Parliament three of the members for the City of London only had taken their seats, he should move a resolution that Baron Rothschild be permitted to take the oaths as appointed by law most binding on his conscience, and in accordance with the faith he professed. (Cheers.) NEW SOUTH WALES. In answer to a quest i on f rom Lord A CHURCHILL, Mr. LABOUCUERE said it was intend ed to sepa rate Moreton Bay iu th e colony of Now South Wales, from that presid ency , th e b oun d a ry to be near the river St. Lawrence. With regar d t o tho form of legislat ion it would be on the model of New South Wales but on what principle, whether strictly what was called execu tive or not he could not then give an answer. THE PRACTICE OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY. Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Vice President of the Council of Education whether it was the intention of her Majeety'e Government to introduce any measure after the Christmas recess, with the view of amending the laws relating to the practice of medicine and surgery ia the United Kingdom ? Mr. COOPER said it was the intention of the Government t o introduce such a measure. TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND ) Mr. VANCI?. asked the Attorney-General for Ire land if the Government intended, during the present session, to bring in a bill to facilitate and simplify the transfer of land in Ireland? Mr. FITZGERALD Faid such a measure was under the consideration of the G.vernneent. THE BANKRUPTCY LAW. Mr. lIEA DLAM asked the Attorney-General whe ther it was the intention of the Government to introduce any amendment of the law of bankruptcy in the present The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the bankruptcy requiredl e i e t: i°uof Par l i e i g a (Hear, bear.) The i ni sl e a n ti t :e late' bronco. subject was under consideration, but he could not state when a bill would be introduced upon the subject. TRANSPORTING INDIAN MUTINEERS. Mr. ARTHUR MILLS asked the President of the Board of Control whether the attention of Her Majesty's Government had been called to the question of trans-, porting a certain number of the mutineers in India to such of the West Indian or other colonies as may signify their willingness to receive such transported offenders, and their families, and to contribute to the cost of their removal ; also, whether, in the event of any measures for the transportation of such offenders being adopted, the Government of India were empowered to carry out such measures under the Aces of the Governor-General in Council of May and June last, for the punishment of offences against the State, and military offences ? Mr. V. SUIT a said it was a question of great iin portance and delicacy. The subject had occupied the attention of the Government. It would be very desirable to have a place to transport those whose lives would be spared ; but the question was, .where to send them. Of course they could only be sent to such colonies as were willing to receive thorn. He behaved no punishment would be dreaded more by the high-casts natives especially as transportation. SMITHFIELD MARKET. Mr. HANBURY asked the Chancellor of the Exche quer, whether the consent of the Government was likely to be given to any proposition of the Corporation of tho City of L indon to build over the site of Sfeitlifiel 1 Market, whether for a Dead Market or any other pur pose ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he believed it was the intention of the City of London to introduce in the ordinary manner a private bill for establishing a dead meat market in some part not far from Smithfield. The question with retard to the ground claimed by the Croon would be I,ft to the decision of the select committee on that bid. PRIZE MONEY. Mr. LAURIE asked the Under S.:cretary for War, whether any prize money wee to bo distributed to the Army who were engaged in the Crimea ? and, whether the.Queen'a troops now in India, who teok possession of treasure, would have prize money allotted to them Sir J. RAMSDEN said the former was too small to distribute amongst the army, not counting more than 2s. Gd. to each officer, and GI to each soldier. None would therefore take place, Mr. V. SMITH said with reference to India that prize money would only be alio wed where the treasure was taken from the natives. (Hear, hear.) MINISTER OF JUSTICE Mr. WARREN asked whether any and what pro gress had been made in the arrangements for establish ing a Department of Justice, in conformity with the pledge given by the Government in the last session ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the matter Lad been under ooneideration. He should be able to give a more satisfactory answer after the recess. THE REBELLION IN INDIA. Mr. BLACKBURN asked if the Indian government had resolved to admit the principle that compensation was to be made for property destroyed by the rebellion in India. Mr. VERNON SMITH said the question had not yet been decided. PETITION PROM CALCUTTA. Mr. WISE asked why the memorial from the inhabitants of Calcutta, complaining of the Governor General, had not been presented to the House of clornmone, and by whose authority it had been with ' held, Lord PALMERSTON said he hal returned it, because it was contrary to the invariable rule to re• ceive such documents, except through the Governor- General, who, at the same time, forwarded his answer to the complaint, bf which Government were put into possession of the facts on both sides. BISHOPS' RETIRING PENSIONS. Mr. GRIFFITHS asked the First Lord of the Trea sury, whether it was his intention to bring in a bill this session to provide retiring pensions for bishops resigning their sees, according to his pledge of lest session ? Lord PA.LMERSTON said the subjeci; was still under the consideration of the government. He was unable to make any pledge on the subject. (Hear, hear.) RIGHT TO PRACTICE IN THE ADMIRALTY COURT. Mr. HADFIELD asked the Attorney-General whether he intended to bring in a bill to abolish the right to practise in the Court of Admiralty, now enjoyed by proctors (who were empowered under the Probate Bill to become attorneys and solicitors), and to enable the legal profession generally to practise in that court, as decided by a committee of the whole house in the last session, during the discussion of said Probate Bill ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the subject was under consideration. Probably a measure to that effect I would be brought in after the recess, but ice was unable to say when. REFORM OF THE CORPORATION OF LONDON. In answer to a question from Sir D. L. EVANS, Sir G. GREY said he intended to bring in a bill for the reformation of the Corporation of London imme diately after the races'. (Choere,) THE KING OF DELHI. Mr. HORSMAN inquired upon whose authority the life of the Kiree of Delhi was saved ? (Hoar, hear.) Mr. V. SMITH oaid that if it was proved on the trial of the King of Delhi he was not implicated in the rebel lion, his life would be spared. He would then be sent to Allahabad, and afterwards cut of the country. Captain Hodson found that he could not capture him without making the promise ho had, and under that promise it was impossible for the Government to do otherwise than abide by it. (Haar, hear.) EDUCATION. Sir J. PAKINGTON gave notice that on an early day after the recess he intended to move a committee for inquiry into the present state of education in Eng land. (Hear, hear.) TELEGRAM FROM INDIA. Mr. S. WARREN asked it any additional telegram had been received from India, and to what purport ? Mr. Y. smint-Oitly that published in all the papers. . betonel KNOX asked which was correct. Two had been published, one stating that when Gen. Campbell crossed the Gan g es on the 10th, it was with 1,500 men, and the other wile the 9th, alad with 13,000 men. (blear, hear.) lie wished to know which was correct. Mr. SMITH said he was only answerable for the in formation received by the Government. MiJtakes, how ever, might arise in figures in transmissiln. PURCHASE IN THE ARMY. Sir DE LACY EVANS gave notice that, early after the recess, be should call the ettention of the house to purchase in the army. (Hear, hear.) SUPPLY—DR. LIVINGSTONE. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in moving a postponement of the Committee of Supply said that it was proposed by the government to devote a sum of money to Dr. Livingstone to prosecute his discoveries in Africa and especially the Zembesee river, believing it might lead to important commercial consideration, as it was a district likely to produce cotton. (Hear.) As it was not in tended to take votes in supply before the recess, he asked permission of Parliament to allow Government to advance 5001. out of the Civil Contin geuciee, and take a discussion on it when it came on in proper order. The reason for so doing was that if Dr. Livingstone did not start in January, the expedition would be delayed another year.—Agreod to. THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Lord PALMERSTON said that as the course Government wished to pursue was not to keep the House sittieg after to-morrow, R was not his intention to move the adjournment of the house tiil Monday, if the debate on the motion for appointive the Bank committee was agreed to to night. (Rear) The house would then meet to-morrow for the royel assent t ) the Inderunity holidays till Thursday, 4th February. B and adjourn for t he GENERAL HAVELOCK'S PENSION. Lord P.A L MERSTON said that the Government, in accordance with the wish of the house, would grant the pension to General Ilavelocl: fur two lives. :Poet would entail on the house the necessity of pettseag another resolution on which to found another bib, and that would be d eferred till after the recese. (Hear, hear.) SENDING TROOPS THROUGH EGYPT. Mr. SEVIYIOUR FITZGERALD was unwilling to allow the house to adjourn for the holidays without mak ing a few observations, on a subject closely linked with the consideration of the claims of General Havelock. Distinguished as had been the services of that gallant officer they would have been still more efficient, had he received sufficient support from Government, and at an e arlier period. (blear.) We sheuld n o t h ave to endure the anxiety so universally felt for the fat e o f G eneral Havelock and his garrison at Lucknuw. U n d er the most favourable circumstances LuCkno w cou ld not be relieved before the 16th cr 17th, and by that ti me , as appeared by the last account's, they were 27 days eating their carriage bullocks—(hear, hear)—and that time they were exposed to all the dangers of famine. He considered that the statement made by the President of the Board of Control, in answer to the question of the right hon. member fur Dreitwich, by no means satLfactory. The bon, member proceeded to contend that troops ought to have been sent by Suez i n d e t ac h ments of 400 or 5C . 0 ii not in larger bodies ; and that the reasons all-ged for preferring sailing veesels to screw ettamers were fear, cious. He was sure there was a general feeling out of doors that Government had been culpably deficient in energy and promptitude. (Hear, from the Opposition.) The SPEAKER, as a matter of order, reminded the hon. member that the question before the house was the adjournment of the committee of supply, and not that of the pension of General Havelock. He suggested that it would be more convenieet if the house would first allow the order to be postponed, and then the question raised by the hon. mei - Aber might be discussed on the following motion, which related to Sir 11. Havelock's pension, which would be in order. Lord J. RUSSELL suggested that it would be better to allow the discussiou—it, indeed, any were necessary after the explanations of his right hon. friend (Mr. V. Smith)—to proceed on the question of the adjournment of the committee of supply rather than on that of the pension of Sir H. Havelock, even if it were somewhat less regular, Mr. V. SMI rn said—Sir, if there ever was a rule so established in practice as to become almost equal to one of the forms of the house, it is that when the house is about to give to merit its due reward, there should be a total absence of any kind of party or personal attack. I was therefore astonished at the hon, member saying that he had picked cut that opportunity for making an attack upon Ler Majesty's Ministers, a course, however, to which I cannot object, because of the very fact that we were not discussing the question of Sir 11. Havmock's pension, but that of supply. I wish, however, that the hon. member had begun as he ended, by asking whether Government would greet that committee, for it so hap• pens that her Mejesty's Government do intend to grant that committee, and the whole question veil be brought before them. (Hear, hear.) But ho wants no such com mittee. He has made up his mind that the Government wore in the wrong, and that it Sir U. Havelock is( xposed to danger, which I hope is no longer the case, that m e are entirely to blame for it. (Rear, and a laugh.) Th right hon. gentleman proceeded to say that the state ment of his right hon. friend was to his mind perfectly satisfacto r y, The hon. gentleman had avoid e d th e con sideration of the question whether England as mistress of the seas ought to go cap in band, to any other Power and beg for aid to put down insurrection in her own do minions. (Hear.) He (Mr. V. Smith) had never said there were difficulties in the way of sending troops to Suez, for though there were so, yet ministries were mad, to overcome difileulties, and if a Ministry could not do that it had better not be a Minietey. (Applause.) Bit it was also made to look to danger, and there would be ' • great danger by sending the troops by Egypt. (Hear.) He did not know whether the hon. gentleman had ever crossed the desert, but he knew several gentlemen who had, and they all agreed that it was a great trial of human strength. It was most important that the troops should arrive sound and well at their destination ; and, in fact, they had arrived every one in as sound health as they had left England. (gear.) He considered that any minister who should send troops by that route without the certainty that vessels should be ready to transport them from Sou to their destination would be worthy of i . cupeachment. Th e h on. gentleman then enterer! Into a calculation of time with a view to show that no advantage would have keen gained by Vee adop tion of the route to Suez, and that even if they had gained a few days that would have been of no sort of use for the relief of Lucknow. The public were too apt to believe that Government had been wanting in energy, and naturally SO in the excitement and anxiety produced by the news from India, for every one was anxious that aid shenhi be sent as speedily as possible, without exactly know iog how that Wat to be done. (hear.) He then referred to what was slid the other night about the screw ships taken up by the East India Company. Though he might say that he was not respolsible for that, he would say, to show that he did not want to shirk responsibility, that he fully approved what they had done, an" that the Government had laid the reins on the neck and put spurs in the sides of the Court of Directors, - .vho had made the utmost exertions. He thought that when the committee had investigated the matter, [tr.:, the facts became better known and understood, the r :,,overnment, instead of being blamed, would receive credit for the most strenuous exertions. (Hear.l. • Sir J. PAK T -.146T0N admitted that there was some inconvenier . de in the raising of the question at this point; especially without notice—(bear)--but every the country was beating with anxiety on this matter, and as Parliament was about to adjourn he thought the hon. member right to avail himself of au op portunity perfectly legitimate in a parliamentary sense. (Hear.) He was astonished that Government should assent to the motion, which he considered to be one of censure upon them—(bear)—and the assent to which appeared to him to be confessing that they were in the wrong. He controverted the arguments urged in defence of the course which bad been adopted. Col. SYKES defended the course taken by the Court of Directors, and said that, so far from requiring the spur to be applied to the flanks, they had galloped ahead of the Government. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE said that though it would per haps have been impossible to send a large quantity of troops by the overland route, yet, if they had sent 500 or 600 at a time, the moral effect would have been very great when it should become known in India that troops were striving in that manner in addition to those from all other directions. At that time of the year the Winds were light from this to the line, and the sailing vessels might have been to that part, but for the rest of the distance the winds were favourable. He inquired what provision had been made for the protection of the troops in the hot season re ferring to the efforts of Lord Dalhousie to improve the barrack accommodation. It would be impossible for them to live under canvas in that season at Bengal. The result of all this was that when the prices increased there would not be sufficient accommodation for the men who would be cone nitrated in Bengal. He thought it was very necessary that the attention of the Government should ' be directed to that point. (Hear, hear). Mr. P. O'BRIEN said ho wished to ask a question which he hail on the paper, namely, to ask the Under-Secretary for War, whether the Government intend to make up our Home Cavalry establishment to the number in existence before the mithdrawal of regiments to India ; and if so, whether they will again constitute the sth Regiment of Royal Irish Dragoons ? Lord J. MA.NNERS protested against such questions being introduced, because they were entirely irrelevant to the question under consideration. The SPEAKER said that as the house had decided that The question should be put whether supply was to be post poned—the hon. member was quite in order. Mr. O'BRIEN then again put tho question of which he had given notice. Sir J. RAMSDEN rose to reply, but The SPEAKER called upon Mr. SCOTT, who rose at the same time. Tho hon. member said that ho likewise had a question on the paper, but he did not intend to press it, although he believed that there could be no question 'that more interested the people just now than the rewards which were to be given to our gallant seldiors in India for the services they had rendered. The house had been told that evening by the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control that it was the duty of a Government to foresee danger, and then to guard ags.instiit- It was because he thought the Go ernment had not foreseen the clanger, and had not pro perly guardee against it that he objected to the course the . , had adopted. (Hoar.) It had been said on a recant festive occasion that the country ought to : thank its stars that it had a Government that was equal to the emergency. That occasion was a dinner at the Mansion-house, and he had no doubt whatever that her Majesty's Government was equal to such an emergency. (Laughter.) He might remind the house that 200 days had elapsed since the news of the mutiny reached this country, and not one single band of men had been sent out that had taken part in the recent troubles. It would have been well, ho thought, if such a Governor for India had been sent out as Lord Elgin ; but instead of that noble lord, India was to be governed by a noble viscount whom nobody considered equal to the occasion. When it had been urged upon the Government that they should have sent out troops by the Red Sea, it had boon said that thereiwould have boo danger in that course, but the Government never seemed to have apprehended the dangers likely to arise from the disaffection of the sepoys, or what might take place at Lucknow. At tho present time, when every heart iu Eng land was throbbing reference to what was taking place before Lucknow, there was an apparent cold, o ,s on the pal t of the Government, and even the President of the Board of Control hardly ventured to say what was to be done if Lucknow were to fall. (Hear.) There were many cir cumstances connected with this question which ought to be well considered, and he hardly understood why Gen. Havelock had not been raised to the peerage when the more historian had been preferred to that high honour. Sir J. RAMSDEN said he wished to give an answer to the question which had been put to him by Mr. O'Brien. Arrangements hal , been made to give the bast acsommoda don for the cavalry in India, and to accomplish that ob ject the existing regiments would bo strengthened, but no . new regiments would bercreated. Sir DE LACY EVANS said that as the Government had consented to the committee of inquiry ho had pro posed, he would not say anything except to ask whether the noble lord would allow the committee to be appointed to-morrow ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that before the question was put he wished to say a word or two, because it might affect the proceedings of the'Government. The President of the Board of Control had made a most important an nouncement, namely, that the committee on this most im portant question would be acceded to by the Government. The right hon. hart. the member for Droitwich (Sir J. Pakington) had expressed some surprise that the Govern ment should have acceded to such an inquiry. Now ho thought that on a question which had been so much dis cussed, upon which there had been so many and such varied statements of facts that the Government had ex2r cised a very constitutional course in acceding to inquiry ; but, at the same time, whether it weuld n)t be better and more conformable to ancient practice for the whole house to resolve itself into committee for inquiry upon the sub ject. At the proper time he should submit that amendment. The committee of supply was then ordered to be ad journed until Friday, Feb. 5. SIR HENRY HAVELOCK'S ANNUITY BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having moved that the committee on this Bill should be adjourned to Thursday, February the 4th, Lord PALMERSTON, who, having spoken on the pr• vious question,. could not until it w as disposed of reply to the question of Sir De Lacy Evans, said—l understood that my hon. and gallant friend had given notice of his motion for Thursday next, and I therefore treated it as ens which could not be disposed of. before the adjournment. As far as the Government is concerned, I should have no objec tion to its coming on to-morrow. Sir DE LAMP EVANS—I have altered the terms of my notice so as I believe to enable mo to move the resolution to-morrow. The motion was then agreed to. THE AUSTRALIAN POSTAL SERVICE. Mr. Alderman COPELAND, who had given notice of his intention to move for a return of all the vessels employed by the European and Australian Company, said that the delay which had arisen in the conveyance of the mails by this company entailed such serious injury upon the com mercial interests of the country that he was sure he need only call the attention of the Government to the subject in order to get the screw put on and the grievance removed. With the exception of the chartered, ship the Sidmouth none of the vessels employed by the company bad performed their voyages in the stipulated time, and the company had incurred heavy penalties, which he was glad to hear that the Government had enforced. It was now understood that this company was really defunct, and it was pretty evident that the persons now concerned in the same were the West India Mail Company. The country had hoard with dismay that this company would not be able to dis charge their duties with efficiency until the month of May, and meanwhile persons leavin; for Australia to-morrow (this day) would kayo to zemaiu in Egypt a month because there would ho no vessel ready to take them on. As he understood that no returns could be made in addition to those alrea ly supplied, he should not proceed with the motion of which he bad given notice; but he implored the Government to expedite this company i n the performance of its contract. They undertook to launch and purchase various vessels.' As yet they had launched none, nor had they chartered any whieh were adapted to the work which they had to perform. There was one ship, the Mediterra nean, the tiled trip of which was quite satisfactory ; but she, instead of being sent to the colonial station was char tered for the conveyance of troops: The hon. member concluded by withdrawing his motion for the returns. ' Sir C. WOOD said the Admiralty would take care as far as possible to enforce upon the contractors the perform ance of their duty. THE LAST INDIAN NEWS. Sir-C. WOOD said the Government had that moment received an additional telegram, which, if the house would permit him, ho would read to them. There was complete silence while the right hou. gentleman read a telegram, dated " Alexandria, Dec. 5 , " which will be found in our Indian news, and upon its conclusion the satisfaction of the hon. members was evinced by cheers. THE CURRENCY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose and said—The house must, I think, consider itself indebted to the right hon. g en tl eman opposite (Hr. Disraeli) for sug ' Besting an arrangement by which the discussion ou the Indemnity Bill hasbeon disengaged from the question which is now about to occupy its attention. Undoubtedly, it has been for the convenience of the house that that subject should have been considered without reference to this further question ; and I may, perhaps, be permitted, now that the Indemnity Bill has been read a third time, and been sent to the other House of Parliament, to express my sense of the fair and candid treatment which that question has received on both sides of the house. (Hear.) Gentle men in all parts of thobouse have,as it seems to me, shown a disposition to avoid all captious criticism, to treat the question on its merits, and to make due allowance for the difficult position of the Government, called upon to deal with a matter which necessarily involved an immediate decision. (Hear.) Nothing can more encourage respon sible Ministers in the proper performance of their duties than a consciousness that thoir conduct will be viewed by equitaMo and impartial judges. (Hear.) having adverted to the Indemnity Bill, I may perhaps be allowed to call the attention of the house to the fact that, although I did not venture to give any positive assurance that the commer cial crisis had reached its terminetion, nevertheless I expressed confidence that the Bank of England was steadily recovering its position. In support of that state; ment I will mention what I am informed was the state of the Bank yesterday evening On the 11th of November the bullion in the Bank was 6,666,000/. On the 12th, the day the letter was issued, it was 6,524,000/. Last night I understand the amount of bullion was 8,200,0001. (Cheers.) The figures are not precisely accurate, because some returns from country branches had not been received, but for all . practical purposes it may be taken to be correct, and that the amount of bullion in the Bank last night was 8,200,00 0 /e (Hear, hear.) On the 11th of November the reserve of the Bank, including both notes and coin, was 1;462,0001. On the 12th of November it was 581,000/. Last night it wa s 4,650,030/. (Hear.) Therefore, if we deduct 2,00,060/. of over-issues, there still remains in reserve 2,650,0001., which is a sum by which it is possible to work the banking de partment. The motion which I am now about to makeisfor the re-appointment of the committee of last session, an d I will again call the attention of the House to the fact that the committee, after concluding the examination of evidence last session, agreed unanimously to recommen d its re-appointment in the present session. These were the words of the resolution :—" Your committee have agreed to report to the House the evidence which they he" received, and, as their investigation of the subject referred to them is still incomplete, they beg leave to recommen d that a select committee be appointed to resume the inqtar.Y in the ensuing session of Parliament." My right hon. friend (Mr. Gladstone) and the right hon. gentlema n opposite (Mr. Disraeli) were both members of that com mittee, and they did not object at the time to that resolu tion. The question, then, to be considered to-night is whether circumstances have since arisen which render it inexpedient for the House to adopt the recommenda tion of the committee. My right honourable friend (Mr. Gladstone) on a previous occasion spoke with some want of appreciation of the evidence taken by the committee of last session, and conceived a doubt. whether any advantage would accrue from a reappointmen t of the committee to inquire into the question of the cur rency. Having been a member of that committee last ses sion, I must be permitted briefly to vindicate its proceed ings. I cannot see that the evidence taken is in any degree inferior to the evidence taken by previous committees on former occasions. Gentlemen of very gent eminence, both from their position and from their experience and acquire ments, were examined. We examined my hon. friend the member for Southampton (Mr. Weguelin), formerly gover nor, now director of the Bank. We examined the present governor and deputy governor. We examined Mr. Hub bard, a very able and intelligent witness, also a Bank director. We examined Mr. Norman, whose character , lam sure, I need not eulogise. (Hear, hear.) We ex amined Lord Overdone, whose authority stands so high be fore all committees on this subject; and we also received the evidence of Mr. Newmarch, a writer of great ability, who is associated with Mr. Tooke in the completion of his work on prices, and who represent s th e s ch oo l of orlini °nt° which Mr. Tooke belongs. We also examined Mr. John Mill, whose merits, ability, and conduct need no eulogiura from me. I think that list of witnesses exonerates theeem mittee from the charge of having laid worthless evidence on the table of the house. I ca nno t see th a t the practi ce of putting long questions, which was remarked on by mY right hon. friend, has interfered much with the value o the evidence taken by the committee. It very often hap pens in committee that gentlemen, wishing to sugges t -nis Its to a witness, are obliged to put long questions- It is not like examinations in a court of justice, object is to extract matters of facts; bat in order to cert,' t on an argument between the witness and the committee, is necessary to put questions sometimes of a rather it eon where the venient length, I amnot sure, however, that the emn mittae of last session can be ju s tly c h arge d with an absil`, of that practice. I must maintain, therefore, with grey deference to m right honourable friend's haracter , that committee, y that it did materially promote the unde . Z standing of that subject which w as re f erre d to its inve st '', gation, and that those gentle men w h o w i s h to underst and the present position of the currency question reference to the Act of 1814 will derive as I confess I m r e ' derived, great instruction f r o m th e opinions and the illation of the witreesses examined before it. (Hear.) I n o t come to the amendment which is to be moved by the si g h hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire. In order to see what would bo the effect of that amendment , I rapes call the attention of the'house to the course which the corp; mittee actually pursued: What the committee did in the last sessisn was to examine into the general operation t.).1. the Act of 184-1 with reference to the Bank of England. confined itself to the question of the issues of the Bank o',* England alone, and the law as affecting the limitation e° s those issues. That pert of the inquiry appears to me have been completed by the committee. What I under.: stand the committee to have intended to do, if reapp ointed ' was to inquire into the country issues in England , a nd also into the banking system of Scotland and Ireland, because tho Acts referred to that committee were not only the Aq pf 1844 but also the Act of 1845 with respect to Scotland end Ireland. Therefore, if the commercial crisis had not occurred the committee, I apprehend, when reappointed, would have treated tbe question of t he Bank of England as disposed of, and would have taken evidence upon the English county issues, and also upon the Scotch and Irish issues, and then they might have agreed to a report. But how does the amendment of the right hon. gentleman affect this state of affairs ? He proposes, as an amendment to my motion, —which would of course get rid of it alto gether—to resolve " that, in the opinion of this Home, no further inquiry is necessary into the operation of the Act of 1544." If the commercial crisis had not occurred I should have been prepared to assent to that resolu tion, for I do not think that any further inquiry is neces sary into the operation of the Act of 1841 so far as the Bank of England is coucernod, and if he would have in serted the words " with the exception of the country issues," I should not have objected to his resolution. But how does the matter stand ? The right hon. gentleman says there is to be no further inquiry, but is the committee to be precluded from reporting upon the operation of the Act of 18.14 ? It has collected very valuable evidence in refer ence to the Act of 1814, and it has not hitherto even con sidered any resolution founded upon it. As I understand it, the effect of this resolution would be to preclude the committee from coming to any resolution upon the evi dence taken last session with respect to the Bank of Eng' land, and it would also preclude them from taking evi dence with respect to English country banks of issue, and the Scotch and Irish banks. Upon the latter point the right hon. gentleman is altogether silent. Under these circumstances, 1 confess it appears to iv.° that the amendment altogether fails to meet th e ell ' gencies of the case. It renders the labours of the co.to' mittee of last session comparatively useless, it stops the !o : quiry at present incomplete, and it prevents any re,oln, tion being founded on th e e vidence already taken. (free r) ! But, sir, we do not stand now as we expected to stand n the end of last session. (Hear.) Since that resolutionA the committee was agre e d to we have had a commercial crisis, and it is, I think, a fair object for the considerate! • of this committee how far the general operation of the f A c t ac of 1811 has received any light from the events o! month. (Hear.) At all events, Parliament might wish_ institute an inquiry into the causes of the com be rn t e i r a c c ra e l d d h i e s_ tree:, and to see whether any connection n_ is e e n e nt that he account operation th a o t f I those have causesprepe proposed d d t e t h e m e a the recent commercial distress, au t to investigate 0 , an instruction to the committee to inquire into the Uwsesfaorf move that e t h f ti 1844. t be it has bean affected by the laws for regulating the issuel bank-dotes payable on demand. In that way the commit t ee , with if it pursued the inquiry of last session in accordance. , a ll! the views of the committee of last session, would. stain from any general inquiry into the Bank of Engtanu e. It would take any additional evidence requisite iu -queue() of the commercial crisis, and inquire into the eta jest of the English country banks of issue , a nd the ope tion of the Scotch and Irish Acti. In that way a complet e and satisfactory inquiry would be ob t a ined. But, sir, iis by no means true that no light has been cast on the opera tion t of this act in the cours e of y ears, and t hat we are able with the evidence taken by pr evious committees,o a form fact well e known _ attentionpresent e e n f t t s h ar e s t h e e ' Il house s. o e of banking. af comp lete woul cionly to d g direct mn t then our a ll persons who are at expansionatl acquainted whichisarte thedwith thiss class of subjects — viz. , the g reat 6 tem of holding money o n call has received within the last few years. It is, undoubtedly, to a great extent, to the busa of that s y s tem —which I believe is in the main a a wholesome and beneficial s system, tending to collect and torn to good account the scattered resources of the country , but, nevertheless, eminently liable to alms°, and contain ing within it elements of danger—that many of the evils of the recent crisis may be attributed. (Hear.) It is the spa tone of giving interest upon bankers' deposits—formerly almost unknown in this country, but for many years Pro' tised to a great extent in Scotland,—which has made a great practical change in the working of our banking laws- Every one must see that there is a great difference between deposits placed with a banker for the sake of safe custody and the convenience of drawinge—where the deposi tor keeps only the smallest sum which is sufficient for ordin ar y payments, and where he draws it out in small sums, as was formerly the case in England,—and the deposits which are almost in the nature of i nvestments, where the de p osito.r receives a high rate of in terest, where h p seeks to au g ment instead of to diminish them, • and where (particularly if he is a banker) he has occasion to draw out large sums at the shot test possible notice. The difference between the two is manifestly great, and it is not dependent on the lass', but it has a great effect on our banking system. With reference to this subject I will take the liberty of directing the attention of the house to a passage in a letter from Mr. Cotton, addressed to me in • October, 18 6--more than a year ago—which is printed i. the appendix to the report of the Bank Committee, a' An which, I think, shows some foresight as to the operati °° ' of this system. Mr. Cotton gays " The system of banking in Scotland which has lately been introduced into London—viz a lo allow interest on &post; at call, or on short notices, has given, and will give, r t i se of serious inconvenience, as the depositors, in the ev e not monetary crisis, will demand payment when they wu sell their own securities."the This I think shows a foresight and a cons * eiou gn ff e e g Y o n e this part of Mr. Cotton of what was likely to be d t o the system. The question which was in fact referred exten t committee of last session, and which was to a grer c h L ey exhausted by them in their inquiries, was that to ni A right hon. friend the member for the University of obey o f adverted the other night when be spoke of the P „ t h a t developing the Act of 1844 . There can be n o douo Ld Sir Robert Peel, when be introduced this Act, ; _irn +llevi. ca me sanguine expectation tha t b efore the time for .--° ing it the provisions wh ich he had embodied in tool extinction of the country ban k issues woul d have_vouid effect, and that over th e whole of England therVlhere are only be Bank of England notes in circulation. to some words in a clause of the Act which seem torseiso p o int clearly to the expectation that before the yip u ses of it was not impossible that all the country bank les' a bols England should cease. Thee are the words of the section of the Act : able t° .‘ And be it enacted that all the compositions PaY eere to the several bankers menti on ed i n the schedule marked (C), and such other bankers as shall agree wi: tht e i g; said governor and company to dim:manna the issue °l,eter own bank-notes as aforesaid, shell, if not previonslY cased, mined by the act of ruch bankers as hereinbefore prc".. sus souse and determine on the Ist of August, 1856, or o n of earlier day on which Parliament may prohibit the 1" bank -notes." ohib i ‘ • The words of the Act clearly - sheer that the entire P_l ri t he tiers of bank-notes by private banks in England !ie:: p e el contemplation of its author. The plan w hich Sir 1" th9A , °" rnue, Le considered to have contemplated eras aone nler single b , nk of issue for England—that wits unple a st_ l / 40 e to within his immediate conternlatio a. Hew far ! ,.0 an certain tentireain but o extinction n)s yo consider 0 the n Eid Scotch erit as and others wko were the promoters naoonftdthillanrtfisarhcobizasloosi,(4t-bil;:t1h0:: prob ebb event to the existence of a single ban k .. 1 0 _ 13 ! w "hie the United Kingdom, That was ono of the quostl