The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-05-03 00:00:00

Kluptrial Vartiament. UCUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, APRIL 29. Petitions praying for the abolition of slavery were presented. 4)y the Bishop of Hereford, the Earl of Cadogan, Lord Suf field, the Duke of Sutherland the Duke of Cleveland, Earl Fitzwilliam, the Bishop of Exeter, and Lord Western. . , JURIES (IRE.LAND) BILL. Lord MELBOURNE, after enumeratin e , ,, some verbal amend ments that had been made ia the above bill, moved that it be now read a third time. The Duke of WELLINGTON brought up a new clause. After a short discussion the bill was passed. Some bills were passed through their respective stages, and Oie house adjourned at a quarter past 7 o'clock. '1 UESDAY. CORN LAWS. Earl Frrzw presented a petition signed by between 3CIX) and =IOW inhabitants of the city of Perth, praying for an alteration in the corn laws. He moved for returns of foreign corn entered for home consumption from the years 1829 to 1832, both inclusive, together with the rates of duty, and the total amount of duty in each year. The noble earl observed, that if he understood the intimation given by noble lords last week, when he fixed this day for bringing forward his resolutions on ths. corn laws, it appeared to be the wish of the house that he should move the resolutions pro forma, for the purpose of having them printed, and their consideration appointed for a future day, (say Tuesday next.) He understood it still to be the wish of the house that he should proceed in this manner. Under these cir cumstances, wishing to comply with the desire of the house, he believed the proper way would be to read the resolutions, and then ask permission to lay them on the table. The first resolu tion would have reference to the price of corn that had prevailed is this country; the second would refer to the price of corn in thOse countries of the world which were exporters of corn ; the third resolution would have reference to those countries which, like this, were also importers of corn; the fourth mould relate to the total quantity of corn imported into this country under the present act, stating the rates of duty levied; the fifth reso lution would state the same tax in a somewhat different shape, having reference to the different rates of duty by which the total sum had been produced. The sixth resolution would gave the annual average of import, and of revenue derived from the im port of corn. The subsequent resolutions would state the con iusions to which he had come in his own mind with respect to the subject, and to which same conclusions he hoped that, some time or other, their lordships would also come. Earl Gi regretted that his noble friend had chosen this time for the purpose of bringing under their lordships' considera tion a subject which, he felt persuaded, might have been better left untouched for the present.—(Hear, hear!) He repeated `the expression of his regret, that his noble friend should have undeitaken, at the present moment, a subject so important, and la relation to which one of the greatest evils was perpetual change.—(Loud cheers.) He, therefore, suggested to his noble friend that it would be better (as, unfortunately, the matter 'must uow be discussed) to postpone the discussion till a later lieriod than Tuesday, more particularly as it would then be in convenient to several noble lords to attend. He did not know that this day forttiight would be too distant a period to fix for the-adjourned debate.—(Hear, hear!) He was willing to con snit their lordships' wishes in any arrangement that might be made. Earl FITZWILLIAM had no wish except to consult the conve nience of the house, and if the noble earl and others desired to have the discussion fixed for this day fortnight, he was quite willing to accede to their wishes. The resolutions were then laid on the table, and the debate a.ijourned till Tuesday, the 14th of May.—Lords summoned. • The Earl of WINCHILSEA wished to have the amount of poor rates, highway, and county rates, since the date of the last re turns, laid on the table. Earl GREY saw no objection to their production. LAW COMMISSIONS. The Loan CHANCELLOR moved for a copy of the fourth re port of the commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of - the common law. He wished to postpone the Local Courts which was waiting for a second reading, until this report, which was very important, was laid before their lordships. In the bill, as it originally stood, he had extended the jurisdiction of those courts to the recovery of legacies of a limited amount. 'That provision was now, however, omitted, because he was un willing to embarrass the measure unnecessarily. Motion agree(' to. The Loan CHANCELLOR also moved for a copy of the third and fourth reports of the commissioners appointed to inquire .into the law of real property.—Motion agreed to.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, APRIL 29. The SPEAKER took the chair 'shortly after 12 o'clock. Mr. EWART presented a petition front the merchants, traders, and inhabitants of the town of Liverpool, for a repeal - of the house and window tax. Mr. J. SMITII was extremely sorry to see such a petition emanate from so properous a trading town as Liverpool, than which none •in the country had so much increased in wealth. He regretted that, after London, the town of Liverpool should be the first to petition for the abolition of an impost which it was so well able to bear. Mr. EIVART admitted the wealth, respectability, and import ance of the town of Liverpool, whose inhabitants, he must say, were the best judges of the grievances affecting them, and the remedy for these grievances. The hon. member also presented petitions from the Dissenters of Edgehill, and three other congregations in Liverpool, praying for the removal of the grievances as to parochial registration and the celebration of marriages, under which they labour; also a petition from the Scotch medical practitioners resident in Liverpool, for the revision of the Apothecaries' Act. Mr. BANNERMAN supported the last petition, and expressed the satisfaction he felt that it was in the contemplation of his Majesty's ministers to introduce a measure to remedy the grievances of which the petitioners so justly complained. Mr. C. BuLLEn presented a petition, of which he had given notice, with reference to the late election for the borough of Launceston. They complained that great bribery prevailed, which they were able to prove before a committee of the house, but the great expense attending, the prosecution of an election petition induced them to abandon such an intention, and the want of means had not only deprived them of redress, but pub lic justice had been defeated. The petitioners prayed that a commission should issue to take the evidence of the corrupt practices which prevailed in the borough of Launceston at the late election ; and, also, that the limits of the borough might be extended, so as to prevent that undue interference which the petitioners complained of as a constitutional abuse. Sir 11. HA RDINGF. thought it must be evident that the hon. member's object had not been so much to enter into the merits of the election for Launceston as to make an attack upon the Reform Bill. With regard to that attack he (Sir H. Hard inge) had nothing to say, because he had opposed the bill, which having passed, he should feel it his duty to support a remedy for any defects which it might possess. (Hear, hear,) But he could not agree with the hon. member who hadi pre sented the petition, that because the petitioners had been de feated, they should be entitled to an enlargement of the boun daries of their borough. The petitioners were composed of all those who had opposed him (Sir H. Hardinge), and amongst the rest was the signature of Mr. Howell, his rival candidate. Bribery and corrupt practices were charged in the petition against him, his friends, and agents, and though the petitioners kad failed to prosecute that charge, he (Sir 11. Hardinge) had not yet had an opportunity of contradicting _ the allegation. He, however, would now say, that so heinous and hideous an oilence did he consider bribery to be, every voter being obliged til) take the bribery oath, that he would rather lose his election than that any man should perjure himself. The SPEAKER left the chair shortly after three o'clock. The SPEAKER resumed the chair at five o'clock. THE MALT TAX.—MINISTERIAL. PROPOSITION. After some returns were presented, and some formal business disposed of, Lord ALTHORP rose, and said that he felt quite persuaded • that every gentleman expected that he would state, upon the present occasion, what was the course which his Majesty's mi nisters were determined to pursue in consequence of the reso lution adopted by the house on Friday last. (Hear, hear.) The decision of the house, on Friday evening, had placed his Majes ty's government, as he stated at the time, under circumstances of great elitbarrassment. After looking at the qu es ti on w ith that attention which it merited, his Majesty's ministers felt that it would be desirable to bring the question as to the reduction of the malt tax again under the consideration of the house, in such a manlier that the whole state of the ease should be brought fully and fairly before it—that every hon. member might see clearly all the consequences of taking such a step as that in volved in the resolution adopted on Friday last, and that they should all come to a decision upon the subject with their eyes open to the whole object and etiect of such a proceeding. (Ilear, bear.) it was obvious that the sense of the house should be ];ken upon the point at the earliest moment and with the least possible delay, and for that purpose he now rose to give notice, taaat it was Ills intention upon to-morrow night to move, as an THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. amendment upon the motion of the hon. baronet, the member for the city of London, for the reduction of the house and win dow tax, the following resolution, which he would now read, in order to have it placed upon the votes, so that gentlemen would have time to consider it—namely, "That a great deficiency of revenue would be occasioned by the reduction of the malt tax to 10s. per quarter, and by the repeal of the taxes on houses and windows, which could only be supplied by the substitution of a general tax upon property (hear, hear) ; and that as the effect of it would be to change the whole financial system of the country, it would at present be inexpedient to adopt it." (Loud cries of " Ilear, hear.") Lord Aurnoite, having resumed his seat, rose again in a few minutes, and moved the order of the day for the house resolv ing itself into a committee of supply. In doing so, he said he would take that opportunity, seeing the hon. member for Wol verhampton (Mr. W. Whitmore) present, to express a hope that his hon. friend, whose motion with regard to the corn laws had precedence to-morrow evening of that of the hon. baronet, the member for the city of London, would not refuse the request which he (Lord Althorp) now made to him to give way upon that occasion, and to allow the motion of the hon. baronet to have precedence, as the circumstances in which they were placed rendered it in the highest degree, he would not say merely expedient, but absolutely necessary, that the decision of the house should be had as soon as possible upon this important subject. (Hear, hear.) Mr. WHIT sto en said, that under such circumstances he had no objection to accede to the request of his noble friend, and to postpone his motion. Sir W. INGILBY said, he wished to ask the noble lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, what it was his intention to do respecting the resolution which had been carried on Friday last. (Laughter.) That resolution having been carried by a majority of the House of Commons, and the manner in which the noble lord had taken it up having gone forth throughout the country, together with the decision of the house upon the subject, the country would expect that the measure should be carried into effect. (Hear, hear.) He begged, therefore, to ask the noble lord whether it was his intention to carry that resolution for the reduction of the duty on malt to one half into effect, or what it was that he intended to do ? Lord ALTHORP said, that it was only such gentlemen as were not so much accustomed to the proceedings of that house as his hon. friend was that could misunderstand what he (Lord Al thor(i) had said upon the subject, after the vote had been carried on 1 riday night. As to his lion. friend's question with regard to what lie (Lord Althorp) intended to do respecting the reso lution that had been carried on Friday night, he thought that the motion of which lie had just given notice was a sufficient answer to it. (Hear, hear.) The Marquis of CHANDOS said that he had misunderstood the noble lord in the same way that the hon. member for Lincoln shire had misunderstood him, as it would appear, upon Friday night. He rose to express his deep regret that it was the inten tion of his Majesty's government to endeavour to get rid of a vote of the House of Commons upon a question of the greatest importance to the country at large—(hear, hear)—to get rid of it, too, under such circumstances—to get rid of a deliberate vote upon this question, when it could not be said that the house had been taken by surprise on the subject, for the hon. baro net's notice had been on the votes for a week. (llear, hear.) For himself he should be ashamed if he was capable of altering his vote upon this important question in such a way; and he would say, that he would rather throw up the seat which he had the honour to fill than do so; and he would put it to the candour of the house, to the honour of English country gentle men, whether, upon a question which so deeply affected the landed interest of the country, the house should, upon the re quisition of the minister of the Crown, recall its vote upon it, and vote as he directed it, exactly the other way. (Hear.) Mr. TENN rsoN said, that undoubtedly the noble lord was best qualified to give a construction as to what he did say, or in tended to say, on the previous occasion now referred to, and although he was ready to accept the explanation which had been given, yet he must say that it was his (Mr. Tennyson's) im pression at the time, an impression that had been extensively circulated through the press, that he (Lord Althorp) stated, on that occasion that he would, notwithstanding the smallness of the majority, feel it to be his duty to carry the resolution into effect.) Loud cries of " No, no," and " Yes, yes.") The pre sent House of Commons, it must be recollected, was net like former degraded Housei of Parliament, that would vote as the minister required them to do, the members of which were more the puppets of the minister than the representatives of the peo ple ; and of course when they differed from him upon any ques tion, he had nothing to do but to resign. But. now that they were assembled in a refoimed Parliament, when his Majesty's ministers came down to treat with them, the real representa tives of the people, regarding the supply, and when they pro posed that a certain sum should be raised for that purpose, if they preferred raising it in a different manner from that.pro posed by ministers, they had, if they truly represented the peo ple, a right to say, and the ministers of the Crown should listen to them, " We do not wish to be taxed in that or that particular manner; we wish that a change should be made, and that it should be raised in another way." For his own part, he should be ashamed of himself, if, being ready to vote for the reduction of the malt tax, and for the repeal of the house and window taxes, he should not be also really to vote for a substitute for them. He was, so far as he was concerned, ready to agree to the im position of a property tax. (Hear, hear.) So far from thinking that such a tax would be a grievance on the landed interest, he was of opinion that it would be the greatest boon that could be conferred upon it; removing, as it would, those burdens that at present weighed down the industrious portion of the community, thus affording the greatest possible stimulus to diffusing life and vigour throughout the productive industry of the country. He regretted that the minister of the Crown intended to come down to propose the rescinding of the vote of the house in the manner that it was proposed to do. They must come to a pro perty tax; nothing else would satisfy the people of this country, and nothing else was calculated to place the country once more in a prosperous condition. (Hear.) Mr. RoniNSON would wish both the government and the house to consider the situation in which.they would be placed if, by any means whatever, the resolution proposed by the noble lord should he carried. Would it not then be said, and justly said, that a House of Commons, consisting of 300 and odd members, came to a deliberate vote, upon due notice, for reducing a portion of the burdens of the people, and that that vote was considered a pro per subject for revision? He had never been in the habit of using language in that house calculated to produce an unfavour able impression of it in the country, and he should not commence that career now, but he could not avoid stating what would be the necessary and inevitable consequence of the revision of this vote. The people would see that the House of Commons, consisting very often of not more than 30 or 40 members, had passed esti mates for imposing burdens upon them to a large amount, and that in no single instance had such votes been subjected to a revision, whereas that when a house of 300 and odd members decided upon reducing their burdens, that vote was subjected to revision, and was actually rescinded. (Hear.) In conclusion, he would invoke the house to pause well before it came to con sider that discussion of which the noble lord had given notice for to-morrow—to consider well what would be the necessary and inevitable consequence of overturning the vote of Friday night. Mr. M. ATTWOOD had understood the noble lord precisely as the noble lord the member for Euckinghamshire:— That the vote had placed the government in a state of considerable em barrassment; but, after the vote to which the house had come, he could not think of offering any opposition to the carryingof _it into effect." (Cries of "No, no.") He did not agree with the hon. member for Lambeth, that former Houses of Commons had been degraded, but what, lie would ask, would be thought of the dignity and character of the present house if . it should re scind its solemn decision at the command of the minister? He was quite satisfied that the proceeding, if adopted, would lead to great changes in the proceedings of the house, and he dreaded the manner in which it was likely to be received by the country at large. He dreaded the operation of such conduct with re gard to the reduction of a tax. Mr. BENETT confirmed, from his own recollection, the ex planation already made by Lord Althorp of the meaning and terms of his statement on Friday night. Mr. Ham. DARE said he had not had the good fortune to be present on Friday night, but he concurred with the honourable member for Wolverhampton, that, after the decision on that night, notwithstanding the explanation of the noble lord RP to his meaning on that question, it would be a bad precedent to at tempt to rescind a vote to which the house had deliberately come. He was perfectly ready to vote for a property tax as a substitute for the malt tax. And shoUld, if he had been present, have voted for the motion of the hon. baronet (Sir W. Ingilby); but he should have done so with regret, as he only considered it a half measure. (Hear, hear.) He, for one, w as ready to con sider the proposition for reducing the whole of the malt tax, and substituting a property tax iu its stead. Mr. BARING, as far as he was concerned, would not give en couragement to further discussion on the malt tax, but having been one of those who thought it fit to vote in favour of the re duction of the malt duty, he thought it proper to say, that the declaration of the noble lord, as it struck him, might have been taken_by hon. gentlemen either to mean one thing, or the other. (Immense la ug ht er .) He compl a i ne d, that within twenty-four hours' notice, the house was to be brought to a division on this most important sui , ject. In fact, he thought that the reduction of the malt tax, for which he voted on Friday, might have been afforded without bringing on the necessity of entertaining the question of a commutation of taxes; but even allowing that it Were put to him distinctly - , would he have the malt duty reduced and a property tax imposed, or the malt duty be left alone, he should certainly say, leave the malt duty alone (hear, hear,) and spare him the infliction of a property tax. ("Hear, hear," and laughter.) Sir ROBERT PEEL said he should follow the example of his hon. friend, and postpone giving any detailed opinion upon the great question which was to come on for discussion to-morrow night till the proper time arrived. He would observe, however, with respect to the event which had brought on the present dis cussion, that if he had been present on Friday night, which ac cident alone prevented him from being, he should have given his most decided opposition to the proposition for reducing . the malt tax. He, for one, would not consent to inflict an injury upon the public creditor by voting for the repeal of any one tax until he felt assured of obtaining a substitute for it. (Hear.) With regard to the success of establishing a property and in come tax in substitution of other taxes, he entertained very serious doubts. Ile did not mean to say, that virtually to re scind in one night a vote to which the house had come on another was a course free from evil, but he thought that a far greater evil would result from the maintenance of the doctrine that questions of such immense importance should be finally determined by a house consisting of only half the number of the whole house.—(Hear, hear.) he course he meant to adopt with respect to the question of the imposition of a property tax might probably be inferred from the opinions he had already expressed, but feeling that question to be one of immense im portance, and one involving considerations of such magnitude, he should abstain until it was fairly before the house from en tering into a discussion upon its merits. Lord ALTHORP said that an hon. friend of his had objected to the shortness of the notice he had given for the motion he intended to submit to the house ; but if his hon. friend consi dered the situation in which the affairs of the country would be placed while the decision of such a question stood over, he was sure he would not think the notice too short. In the resolution which he had read to the house he had distinctly stated that the imposition of a property tax would be at present inexpedient. On the question that the Speaker leave the chair, Sir. R. INGLIS asked whether government were acquainted with the nature of the bill authorizing the establishment of the Glasgow lottery, while that bill was in progress through the house ? Lord ALTHORP replied, that his Majesty's government had not the least idea that a bill authorizing the establishment of a lottery had passed the Houses of Parliament until he was apprised of the existence of the lottery itself. His attention was then drawn to the subject, and on looking at the act he found that no allusion was made to the lottery in its title, and that the word " lottery" itself never once occurred throughout the act. It was, to say the truth, most skilfully drawn up, and the parties who had concocted it had fully succeeded in rendering the house and the pvernment entirely i"norant of the real nature of the bill. He could only say, that as far as the goverment was concerned, no countenance nor assistance had been given to the act in question. Sir R. PEEL.-If the lottery is not yet drawn the bill may be repealed. (" It is drawn.") Well, then * , all I can say is that those who were parties to the transaction ought to be subjected to public punishment. Mr. HA Lcoma gave notice, that on Thursday next he should introduce to the notice of the house the subject of a breach of privilege, founded on the undue interference at the last Dover election, of parties connected with the Ordnance and Post office establishments. The house then resolved itself into a committee of supply, and the SPEAKER left the chair. ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. Colonel MABERLY moved, " That a sum not exceeding £71,996, be granted for the civil establishments of the Tower, Pall-mall, and Dublin." After some observations the vote was agreed to. The following votes were agreed to : £8,935 for the departments at Woolwich, £14,919 for the sa laries at borne stations, £26,871 for the salaries at out stations in Ireland and foreign stations, £37,703 for the salaries of barrack masters, &c., at home and abroad : £277,156 for the charge of the royal artillery was the next vote. • Mr. HUME, after complaining that the present vote was kept up on the highest war scale, and that half the number of men would, in these times of peace, answer all the purposes for which an artillery was required, moved as an amendment that the number of men should be reduced from 6,000 to 4,000, i. e. as a money vote, that the estimate should be reduced to £181,771. Colonel MABERLY maintained that the present amount of men was hardly adequate to the wants of the service. The Master- General had five demands from the colonies for artillerymen ; but owing to the paucity of men, was only able to comply with two of them. Messrs. Young, Tennyson, T. Attwood, and Robinson opposed the amendment, on the ground that though friends to economy, they did not think the present artillery force greater than the public service required. Mr. HU MS said that his reduced vote would be 1,000 men more than was found wanting in 1792. The committee then divided. For Mr. Ilume's amendment 3l • Against l.lO Majority against the amendment -109 The vote was consequently agreed to. The question that £25,587 he granted to defray the expense of superintendence of the building and repair of barracks in Great Britain, Ireland, and the colonies was agreed to ; as were several other votes after a short conversation. The rest of the votes were agreed to without opposition. On the question that the Chairman report progress and ask leave to sit again, being put— Mr. HOME rose, and said that he was anxious to submit to the house for their concurrence a resolution which had been a greed to by the committee appointed to examine into the state of the public documents, for the purpose of making the va rious public returns and accounts winch had been moved for and printed for some years back available to the members of that house. In the course of their investigation they found considerable difficulty in collecting information respecting the past income of the country, the increase and decrease of trade, and many other matters connected with the financial and commercial state of the kingdom. A gentleman of the name of Marshall was called before the committee, it being well known that he had employed himself for the. last 12 years in collecting and classifying a variety of public accounts, and at the close of his examination he laid before the committee a Collection of papers containing a complete view of the expendi ture and revenue of the kingdom, and forming a series of sta tistical accounts of the most valuable nature. Indeed, there was scarcely a subject connected with finance or commerce respecting which information might not be gained by reference to Mr. Marshall's book, and he had no doubt that his work would save the country large sums of money, which were now expended annually in printing returns and public accounts for the use of the members of that house. So convinced was he of the value of Mr. Marshall's work, both as respected the informa tiOn it would afford and the expense it would save the country, that he some time ago represented to his Majesty's ministers the propriety of giving that gentleman £5OO to enable him to complete his book. He did not 'anticipate that any objection would be made to this resolution on the score of expense. He should conclude with moving that the house agree in the re commendation of the committee on public documents, that 1,250 copies: of Mr. Marshall's digest of information, derived from parliamentary documents since the,year 1798, be purchased for the use of the members of the house,_ and that a sum not exceed in £2,625 be granted for the purchase of the said copies. Lord ALTUORP said he was inclined to leave it to the general feeling of the house whether the proposed grant of money was, under the circumstanced of the case, justifiable. He did not mean to deny that great ability and industry had been displayed by Mr. Marshall in the compilation of the materials of his work; but it should be borne in mind'that that gentleman bad already received a grant of £5OO, and that great difference of opinion existed as to the propriety of that giant at the time it was propOsed. He had been ready to make the first advance of £5OO upon his own responsibility, and that circumstance must be a sufficient proof of his sense of the utility of the work. He would leave it to the house to decide whether it would sanction a second grant of the same kind. After a few words from Mr. Briscoe, in favour of the grant, and from Mr. Aglionby and Lord Sandon, who, though opposed to Mr. Hume's motion, were willing to grant a' sum of £5OO to Mr. Marshall for the completion of his work, Mr. HosiE replied, and in the course of his reply stated, that the saving . of £2600 on such a point as this was a very paltry consideration. Lord SANDoN again rose and said that before the committee proceeded to a division he should propose that £5OO, or £lOOO, should be given to Mr. Marshall for the completion of his work, instead of £2600 for 120 Q copies for the use of members of that house. If the original motion were carried, the 658 members of the present House of Commons would each be entitled to a copy of the work. Now, to all of that number, except perhaps a hundred, the book would be mere waste paper, and they would take an early opportunity of exchanging it with their book sellers for some works more to their taste and edification.— (Laughter.) The members of the next House of Commons would - also be in want of their copies. Some of them would obtain c6pies—others would not. The House of Commons after the next would be left entirely without copies of this important work. The motion was therefore faulty, as it provided for the !Tiving away a work of permanent importance to a body that was transient and changeable in its nature. - (Hear, hear.) He concluded by moving as an amendment that a sum not' A considerable number of petitions window tax were then presented, and(); HOUSE AND . WINDO' Sir J. KEY then rose and said, ti the largest districts peculiarly aggrii injustice of .the house and window t moving for their repeal he should not tion, and that hon. members would gr indulgence while he addressed them allow the strength of the claims of th redress to be impaired by the inefficiel advocated. The house tax at present o a f s assessed, ei inhabited a a b s t h e o d n h . ou ses members abo v ‘ e Ve k e lO a‘ p v e a r re scale. It was not necessary for him tt account of the rise and progress of thi, say that, like most other bad measure , duction, so mild in operation and so it excited but little opposition. Whe, with the window-tax, it amounted to o' each house, and it had gradually In period, when its enormous amount exe influence upon trade, and absorbed a posable income of the industrious class been fairly and equally imposed, won: obtaining those necessaries and comfo , prop and support of the state, they we: was true those taxes had not attained to amount without the lieople renionstrati and inequality, but the majorities of a; bad been always ready to support mini on the middle classes of society, and rite of a reformed house would not cop' au apology was offered for the increas' the war in which the country was thee ranee that it was but a temporary inea: with the necessity that called for its tax, as appeared by the returns to the tht duced in the year ending January, 1832, s uler 3b o t £1,357,041, 13s. 11%d., of which .suin cot) A t he one-half was paid by the city of London added too, tricts within the bills of mortality, and if three °a polis and the hives of industry in the h . r , , r d) and trading counties, Yorkshire, Lam:3B;d 01(? ft y! shire, it would be found, that united, they I? the 1 1 fourths of the whole tax for the whole et 1 ,„ p r?f, ties of England and Wales; thus clear il f e tel, was a direct tax upon trading and To allu „tit% That it was not intended to treat this ta x as olevltbe was manifest from the manner in which it tv i d e r _ the country, unless, indeed, we were to C bv and commissioners perjured. For instainlceliedfor(lay assessors there were only four houses flut ist!, than £7O per annum, and the aggregate L!•forcisttio4 four was sworn to be under £1200.. Be" Yoe lected, contained Woburn-abbey, Wrct l 2,tee-r e ° o• l Warden, Ampt hill-place, Vannes-house. tOf e V!' park, Melchburn-park, and a great number_ta ge 411 commodious houses, the seats of nobility ' s t s ,L io of,r ti t , which, with their rateable appurtenance s, t he slit, of pounds. If this were intended to lxa: itos eov e Ct blance to a tax upon property, why did allwilide th it y escape with the annual payment of £ l7 t ), s t he don cavern alone actually paid £l4l Iqg• h ich to,„ were not in the whole house apartments Pi d oo, he iii; and his family could sleep, the whole beli' jo ft, which, indeed, its whole value consisted r retu ro, l ot t , r el Poultry, and Cornhill, as appeared by a sse sse u ,, e • 1(X) houses, indiscriminately taken, were a t t i o tl £16,300, or upwards of LW) each upon , a!_l'ititicslti, ey in the metropolitan and manulacturint, ;VlllOlOOl in the remaining portion of England an".,pt, beg of houses assessed to the same alo° l ",, ap hica moderate calculation, drawn from toPlvotes_' i g 0 0 accounts of the counties of England and , 41 7,0 0 : 0 00 of information, there could not be less t9coto£2,•oo° sions and dwelling-houses which had cost; houseslhat,t in their erection. The average cost of t ouo. 01' 6 0 Cheapside might be from £1,500 to £2, f the 'l i do stituted the difference between the cost Lisle car,' w ith, value at which it was assessed, but the ts, ste rieo no t And it was manifest that a tax which Wa. s lob • t • hos- it t t he severity upon the latter description • d us tr:• o p property, but a tax upon trade and to . ndo w le s 0 consent to abolish the house and vo the o ,l o olp Taxes might at once be broken up, and lect°%(, ' I ° 3 o missioners, assessors, surchargers, col 1 . -;0 14- 0 1 spies, and informers, might be swept aw,V, r . e * co oodoo was a tax imposed on districts, might, be os esse ee r •e police tax in the metropolitan district, ill „p s i and collected at a trifling expense along,v; ( Abe T oi li'd by the proper authorities, and such 0f.% jol . o as it might be necessary to retain InT` ct at t' ail lt; , b l ;o l to the stamp department, and collet:1 o , or 1 ' 3( 0- A tt charge. There could be no more difficil, a ble 0 0, 0 1 • too oth tleman obtaining a licence to use an) to act, 9 than in a tradesman obtaining a licenc e to t he - cou lo o l or in any other capacity. In re ferenc_e tas , he ati s e e i ta the inability of ministers without tPF to r e that he scarcely ever knew a propositiove the a te was not met by the saine argument-e trus Wi ese s ite e re j expressing his opinion, in which 11 , lst bon fe coincide with him—That the taxes oP' de a l it o p , 0 1 ed tra impolitic, and unjust: they depress , :00 try ; they were subject to every object:, o f el o seo tax, without possessing the advantatT t he a Sb d • xis . 9 le • reason he moved that such portio _ re „es lated to the housetand window tax ho_ Mr. Alderman Woon seconded the ‘ T e elpl tt i i ft, The question having been put from r t e " so lutl . ° o.th er e tQ Lord ALTHORP said, that as the toe of a bout to propose to the house was a dot denary nature, and one he was ready _._..........ram i M f a he wished b efore he ent , the ease of its subst ance to ( mpelled , and to st ate co to adopt the w • it h respect to the divisio he would not say ti iletely by Surprise. on the hook that sUc alrard, but gentlemen four notices were on - by the orm s of the I corarnittee off supply, two \the order of the day, and ‘4. leaving the chair. Ile et that evening the motion re would have been brou list; but one of the mot, i reetuber for Oldhat—g titity in the giving of the er bablin being IN ithdi lt tax came conseqm er of Members, besides, w ,did not a.tnount to more th Members. The question iffereot grounds and he eert which had taken place on talent in adopting the de indicated. On these he decision of that que; oft great embarrassment. as he had done, that it wa s v 'lsition at all as the one wi ;lamely, iti ho use s certain degr 4 the ame to but I choose between two diff tit to thnsideration of which Government had d that the , is hous e persev ere ~, He thou ght it necessl -i, and t a k e ro s e and ofit° it s tonsil that vote p of the debate which tc Ly did not think it of great were for a repeal of the .. • 1 On the contrary-, he w "Y eerytlecess that he sho event of peal of that di , 4 iv,l ee s l i t itter b o.B B ): i t i t bt t : l oy t l u i n o tr t h e (vetooh fosuaa. takenb o ea t r h ioi e i r , t e did not see how it was ' propositions without vote for the imposition (rwho se ded the prese eadiness to take that ire hought, that the best ikirly before the house ; alternative, and to see wh and discretion the house the systern of up roperty t tut to be ' deed 't could 41141, liel(tfesirablie to rais t°P..etty tax, as a substitutt : Iv, : o g stt atilleelqkueei di ii itraei, stops e et: l d e sarav a iK r ofiddl t nii h eig: a yhd t i noa i n ag t tyk,•aox:ll4 4Y•L fie did not then wi,l or tie inapolicy of such a lonld he joi-o;itie; but h rected any tax so univ / of 1816; and why were coil,he More popular at the %hat say ta, if a large s 814ctituti r proPeit? b,, . on o a e .si e s i (it: iPijsu: siebteiliec , e : i t :lat(atCYt hoiitetneils; izttili.aell ple:ciaoslbaitf r i e o ;e l r t i ocluals3‘ overe ail pt d then it wi • kl this proposition (In "ihiil ev , , whc ~4 4 , e ery gentienia.__ !allte9( IliQt lin•PPPit poi e''ereised iilltitl6letZliection Wer!tgWialiSen°Peillri tto all i erpe t ttY, and at last the tal a-. counry. The hon.,tin ,Nht stated, that _seeing ID.:/:14 pared to adopt an !Ito:8 y, and, admittin 41 . an income tax would That hon. membe r pr -Itt• did he think he con LYl44r't any pro P osition wort e c , i, h P would gi',e - Present he did not ac" I'4 possible, his supPc he did, he had brough 6 , its substance to th e bc 1;41(it: 'Jake the sense of till etleability.of reducing 1 kai ztloiitempated, without th e %, the limit to call upon I,‘. i:Lkl)Pdiency of such a 4.141 " silew th,t it had been I,oilent the , ' rtanistry were bow r , 4 Thi s he considered it and to fihancial matters. .e,.. pot(i tit il t ed. bacbtsrti i ti a e e , t, a w n e d r heh otohno: hto,,at the individual m /Y 11:441et such an obligati, Ile hmteh they considered lul) idsro-„ll4er in which his awe] 1' persons of different h•it °tl:lP(''sed by those who 1% , H of „, as well as by thos kit,tho,ire house and windov tittitigt that both taxes mil 1/414111. of any other tax w ol4ti NPrud ently in thus un q the house should dec ,itt th eettsider that they 'I ad ",,tititt,„l4,tlde in which he M4th`- uje zaaiiitttin.d, and in %o . 1:! Mould remain Chance 4, armlet had exaggerated taxes ; it was consuierabl) fth, :s than the excise, an ot whi IttiPs• Now, a few w tritiotb',;' he (Lord Althorp) Ss gilty. It had been ( 4 teTiroplica and it ha Id , e'" (heed'reat shopkeei h ( shat °Nered" both these there tit lotionsla:klieti to be .made Ste this ,a• great s acrifice a iy ~,,,,,,b ifficulty. He had -it • b ut 7 uf windows which tl'lat n„',,e would abuudon t eq i t ~t uouses having she] w.,.:ti.i tile pa s having of out ; li f t im the hOuse. This pl !p,r84e0,114(1 before proposed tihi sit' eV.er.description. tre _ nation in which he W e(i to roposition ticia u w a s till thatunder the gt. 6 wts agreed to; tniniste iePl.,;le!ision of the hous e i elic(o.ricluded with 1710Vil 04 ti , 9 lit the revenoe wh Ithe' the tax on malt w in Itlb t9A ott houses and II stitutioa of a general tai ketftteasive ehanke in our w •11,t?'setit he ine"xpedieent." ' ,- hit the liouse woo] tot,:!): Mit would act upon the tv.eidi and return to the G 4•Y 'tad Made to the East 1 I I S ,: I ; 4t :: I I I ir 4 4 , t: t 1 se : I li t. f f l t i i 0 1 : t : 11 ; l i i y e, ' 1 stns:i.)Bsaidrt appliese s i Pest f h al, too nyo t dof i 1 t ''Wer f 'l'le• tilear, he, tilt, 'too , the right hn. gentl l ie ',!` 1 t it on this oeca_sio si ;:°,te Which the had gil 4,“tkvsur of that...proposit twq oi,it:::/? upon ins majesty epatki_ (.414 accommodate t ttk't tha • The fault lay in ti '4le 144i:it:tr !if that system, of it; and, followil P --- h 11 /( ' fe et • ceeding £lOOO should be granted to Mr. Ma rs- a a L l°ll , he pletion of his digest of the public accounts. , 3 0, it, '1444 4 The committee then divided on Lord Sandell 5 ti 4 tee o f Ayes • • i ts , r( ) ,, Noes e iike e t t li ght, Majority against the amendment • ' adi f i tini - "liint The committee divided again on another an le i d t re e he 4 . - o • by an hon. member whose name we could not i ll ight fo ing the sum of £1,500, when there appeared'— lrd4ostie:' Ayes Noes . •/,.. Into t • ' tulle 'oro rt ',, lip e . ° , 4 th e 0 Majority against the amendment • 0 . 4 , tl l4 ` , •r 1 The committee divided a third time on the t t o li - ea 1 1 „,° 1 4s h i t h at when there appeared:— . F itt th fi nis 1 ,,,, Ayes Noes . e, ;414, 1 Majority in favour of the motion • • a g of , l uor f i f 1 The other orders of the day were then dipole `' l e 4 1 ' 4 !ot er alt Adjourned at half-past 1 &clock. TUESDAY. c ght d• 4 a ;tie t . id In consequence of the ballots for select conliniec, of 41 bc merits of the petitions complaining of undu e ; i o . Ai ffe r e e t , lll . l turns for the county of Linlithgow and for ° 3 c „klii•h e ' L lery was not opened until a quarter to fiv e i r, !Nr se u however, before four o'clock the avenues lea T ot i tis eil i di were crowded to excess, and a considerable In" i p a, , 'dist the gregated outside. On the gallery being oP e ti n t, it/ ; I I of c , strangers to secure seats was tremendous, an bl e d '" h e out some difficulty that the reporters were ena rop e ..ha „ . sltio t the places allott to them. f OF s,...as iti 111 r. HODGES m°ved the second reading 0 gm, e Pier Bill. 4 f ,.` 4 th e Captain YoliKE considered that the pro c sk iCrait ell°, seriously interfere with, and encroach upon, tot qt. tie, to the river Thames ; and moved as an amendinen IlieVt'i!lie be read a second time that day six months. , Alt, . last. ,t• After a few words from Mr. Alderman W r n ° ,,"! isi '.least f , d Mr. Hodges, the gallery was cleared for a w v " eo ns an house divided, when the numbers appeared-- ~.. N os e % For the original motion .......... ~.•e a ll of For the amendment ............................... ti t ,,Y did tail to Majority in favour of the bill .... r : i ..... the Or The bill was then read a second time, and ° s t y I le ~ mitted. . 11 1 , e llt 5 11 „ t „( NEW WRIT FOR WIZSTMINSTO,:•ev, th e ,:..01 The SPEAKER having called upon Sir John 1 , - ; ea r , „wis e , able baronet rose, but immediately gave way t ° of liob ll 'ar; Sir F. BURDETT, who said that, in consequelfii, r ed, he fts he situation in which his right hon. colleague ty un t . hi t i he had felt it due, as well to his constituents a , - r ig, td 4, "se sign his seat for the city of Westminster. Il i t s a , , 1 111 4 :ole league having accepted office under the pre w ori Perf e *l4 chiefly with a view and the hope that he coula te e a . f ere e t re ; promote the interests of his constituents an d t i p a s j ell r the himself placed on the present occasion in O c t ' a tS the al `till the discussion that was fixed for this evening, a ' s 15 e ! , a)a te t , consistent with his official duty and character n ts, if (d di the Crown, discharge his duty to 'his constitue , i . . ht not 5, himself, therefore,' under the painful nece.sitY Bur°deti hit 4 seat. Under these circumstances he (Sir F• the' il‘' 4 il 4 fati requested to move, which he now begged lea ce f It I ,Perty writ for the city of Westminster, in the room of tall qt Sir J. C. Hohhouse, who had accepted the Ch i 0 1 . I —Ordered. A considerable number of petitions he it r the window tax were then presented, and ordered to ,l, , .to to against tie 0 s,h, ol d „ e t . 2 1 th. 1 HOUSE AND WINDOW T AX ' eSeP , l' - , Sir J. KEY then rose and said, that rep the c y tl ,.oll e( the largest districts peculiarly aggrieved l'Y tr O, ao t ,C,,efi minjouvsintigcefoorfutiheeir repeal house and window should d o n w o taxes, ba c,c h e e sti pa o : t!l h e a lll e ta b l e k tion, and that hon. members would grant hi t° u t t je oe "Ist 5 indulgence while he addressed them ou the s „io tts b 14 l ' i llt4 ; il allow the strength of the claims of the inclu h s ' w hie- 'Pt e e •ox redress to be impaired by the inefficiency ivi t e D ar? Po u ll e advocated. The house tax at present in fore tb as oeli e "st assessed, as hon. members were aware, up on ti poll a • or ; fe d, of all inhabited houses above £lO per anuuw' -,,r0 " ' he scale. It was not necessary for him to ente r i l t was ~5 I , ‘ l 'Cl,, W ere account of the rise and progress of this tas-; ' at iy ,• far ,A) say that, like most other bid measures, it irate in a r , ii• ei ` . oo duction, so mild in operation and so modera.nes I . sas h , it excited but little opposition. When first inn t r telk the with the window-tax, it amounted to only A' . ato e , „ed each house, and it had gradually prog.re s r a m ost ,Nikis period, when its enormous amount exerciseu ort i o a 0., Iv I t influence upon trade, and absorbed a large,_? e b, if t ,14,,t,Yr io 're posable income of the industrious classes, u'''' b e en e;+, 41 ,,!)1, 'ly, I been fairly and equally imposed, would hay driest,,, if , oi ,i)ii obtaining those necessaries and comforts to s eii e on'', i i,,ilAt P and support of the state, they were s(!`' pr e the 'y b Re Ali was true those taxes had not attained to their P ilot Oi l ,t , 4 (4 k l t ito, amount without the people remonstrating aV for ine 4 o .1 1 1 !I. at and inequality, but the majorities of an nine_ plat t,, bath bad been always ready to support ministers lu, ci r t hat , .? ( on the middle classes of society, and he trus i t i ' an e 0 f „ilit h ,„ l a rity of a reformed house would not copy sue e ro te 'd ,'" tit 'tit au apolo . gy was offered for the increase Of th ,d, 0, i (il k 131 ;t1 the war in which the country was then etilsr a _gijich ''', 'tle i l if ranee that it was but a temporary measure, " itio a. to ~,,st : , t with the necessity that called for its ilit ., P ° , : s o e f C: iv L':e git t .: :: tax, as appeared by the returns to the llou s 'h ve t Cllr. '') t