The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-15 00:00:00

that-the-supplying Of theM - VAth tinit)er - bad render- ed (hat article scarce, and that they had infortna tion..:(which inforthation it SubseqUently appeared came from Sir Thos..Teoubridge) that . Government had Agents all over, the'Counity for the purpose of buying np timber. .Thushad. the- Noble Earl' risked the -safety of : the Country by n illr-judged, aYui ilkimed•economV. From that danger his successors Lord Melville - and 'Lord Barham had rescued- it.— If •the,Noble•.Earl's system had been persevered in by his successors,' We sshouid-hoehAre• to -exult in 'anct, 'commemorate the glorious - vi{, ory of Trafalgar, achieved by that • renowned . and ever to be • -la /be-wed-Hero, the • imMortal Nelpt). We should not have had to rejoice in the subsc-tiacnt complete izlete* atof the' Enemy by Sir Riehnrd Strachan. We - should not have had to tritnnpY in their discomfiture - at St. Domingo Bay, by the gallant Sir T. Duck 'Worth ; .nor should \ye have witnessed the 'rnore• • re tent exploit of the brave -Sir • 'Warren, in the capture of the Marengo and.the: - Belle Pottle: Our •blockdding squadrons would •have beert compelled to quit their stations; the .Enemv , would fiaVe ridden - triumphantly, and - have threatened destrtidion to .orir shores and our Colopies: Dreadful' as all 'this would have been, •sneli it would have be - en: The 'Countryin this deg - raded state, huMbled to the dust, 'would haVe been com Felled to aE.cept any terms that insolent Conqueror iiiigiit have condescended to iila 'Pose. He referred to the 'Plan . for retbrin ing fife dock yards Offered to. Earl St. Vincent by the Master - !ShipWright'of 'Plymouth Yard; • and adopted by the Noble Earl on . the..recornMendation alone of the brother of •the proposer, who was . his 'friend' and Confidante and contended ,that, the 'plan had not 'been apprO l ;ed. either by the Navy 'Board' or by a single other Offic,er in -His 'l‘injesty's yard's.. ,The Navy Board, hbwever, expressed their willingness to' tomply with 'Earl St. 'Vincent's, wishes in that re sPeCt • but the .N ogle Earl 'took care: not-to rotttnit. himself by any•positiVe orders - , so' as to bring on himself a .heavy responsibility. It wonld.require all the exertion of the Noble' Lord, now at the head Of the Admiralty•te.avert the evils which still. resulted 4- frolan the measures of' Earl St. Vincent, by which event ua ll y, h e did not suppose 4signedly, he hatt - proved so :great an enemy to his . country.—ln confirmation of this statement, he would row. -Clew how the Noble Earl had negleCtedanother im- Portant part of his duty; he meant the repairing of the ships in the Navy. In -.oCtober,-;.1801, -fifteen pail Of the line only were in ordinary, ten of which Stood in need ,of repair. Between Oelober 1801 and March 180;3, 114 were paid Off, two of which cult' were 'in good condition; sb that in Oct; 1-801, 1 20 sail of the line must have stood in need of repair. The vessels requiring repairs were divided into seven different classes, beginning with 'that class which required the greatest, and ending with that which required the least. En O&. 1801,, Of the ships of the line needing repair, the , ac- Count stood as follows : Of the first class .(those requiring themest repair), 14; of the second, 38 ; of the third, 14;* ofthe fourth, 22 ; , of the fifth, 12; of sixth ; :16 . ; of the seventh (or class requiring the #,a.st .repair), 4. The number of these aanally repair- • ed•bytEarl St. Vincent were : Of the Ist class, none; of the second; 5; of the third, none; of the,4th,'4.; of the fifth; 3'; -of 'sixth, to; and of the seventh, all. Thus in two years and eight, months he Noble Earl caused only 26 sail of the line to be repaired, anti-:those too chiefly of the classes requiring the least repair. The proportion therefore, which those that' he repaired bore to those that he failed to re; Pair, fen far ,short of the _numerical proportion of -26 to . 120. The only way to estimate the true Proportion would be,.. by . the-expenceof the works. ' slim - 151.:1ip . .. NOW for a 74, the expence attending the fie.pairS of : the different classes before mention ed, wereas folloWs.:—For the first Wass., 14,0001: ; for the second, 11,1;6'01.5 . thirk 8000 E .; for the fourth, 4-50 W: ; for the fifth, ;a0•01. ; for the 2500). ; and for the - seventh, VerT small sum. I \lbwithe whole expence of the workmanship on the 26 sail of the line repaired by Earl St.:Vino-ea, '*'hen calculated on the above scale,' amounted tootoo,, . 1.1 . 8,0001. While the Whele • amount the 'eXpence_ for the repair's" necessary for the 120, • 1111 1olinte'd to 980,0001. So that the . proportion what Was done. to what*.was required was, in two Years . and,eight months, as'one" to eight. According to this -statement, the Noble Earl weuld have been t wenty years in repairing the Whole ! Lowing out of the the consideration; that after repairs a ship could not be eipeCted to run above five years Without additional ones. In this respect he was sure might leayetheHonseto form their own judgment. Ile repeated, EarrSt. Vincent did net awake from the lethargy in which he was sunk, , Until within a a n"nth of 'the issuing of press-warrants (before:the C ommeneement of the ;War)'; yet who that, saw the correspondence carrying on between England and. France during the whole . of the period between .the sig n i ng o f th:Definitive Treaty and the breaking • out of hostilities,. burought to have anticipated the consequences, and haVe L endeavoured to place tl - te - ,'"avy of the Country in a state that might render It fit for either alternative ._, The condu6t of the noble Earl had been of' an opposite description. die built few ships ; he repaired few ,shins ; he-dis charged shipwrights'; he even ordered 7000 tons of cordage to be sold, .from a niggardly economy, t ° avoid the expence of store rooms, when a few ' nouths after Government were obliged to purchase 60 0 tons, at an advanbed price. of 521. per ton. ----When the Noble- Earl ,came' into office, .102 Q . ll of the line were in commission ; in 006er, t 802, 22 sail of the line *ere in commissionfiere was a,,,1,1 increase of 20 -Sail - between :Feb. and Od. ron. Admiral had talked a great deal'of this increase, .` . -1t Was it to be attributed to Earl St. - Vincent ? ; the. Country. was indebted for it to Lord Pencer, by whose measures the greater part o f th ose ship s had be en a d v a nce d i n p ro p ort i on ...— Mien the. Noble Earl quitted office, however, in "„ "sequence- of his /injudicious administration, all.' t hat lie could, Muster wars 188 sail eltheline. Not a nother could,' at that time, be sent to sea! There was great reason to believe'that the representations of Of on this.subjed had not been properly at t „ e tnled to. kneW of one, but, he would avoid ?ecifying it. As to the deficiencies in timber, the I . ll l ol ll }' of timber for the Na v y had never failed ! on- Earl St. Vincent's administration. In the eight ; l e af, imindiately preceding that. administration aver.i, , ,e yearly supply. was •32,900 i !le Noble E-ri, however, .centrived to' reduce it in 0 3 to 19,000 loads, and subsequently only be • ek, ' • in • . „ - tweed wrote fY et* he annual , expenditure of the Navy was above 30,000 loads ; so- that the consequences would-have been dread- , indeed ; had the wire systent Colatinued. saw that it was intended to attribute all this diniinu tian of 'supply - to 'the Na - Vy43oard, "bnt this Ntkas rrlzsrepresentatinti. . :The true cause was, the'ststetri of tyranny which, under the administration of the Noble. Earl, was .unhippily,-introdticedihto, every department of 'the '`ay. The mod :in 'whiCh timber . miasspurehaeedjWaS, by the met'cllArits , ing it .to the ,-Kings..ylrds, where a :person Who was called the tiMber-master, examined it, and ac= ceptihg what he those, 'the 'rethainaC..l itras taken away at-the expellee of the mer Chant. Now the re gulations .introduced St. 'Vince& alarmed the timber master (Wlio was liable to.becalled, tin ac- Cohht "for hls. dondliet), and indueed him to be more scrupulous hi his choice. 11c conseqUence was, that the Merchants were put to infinitely' greater expense than before, and at length Were deterred from send in any tinnier at all to :the yards. These regula tions Were as Unnecessary ;m i d impcilitic as they were arbitrary for the fact was, that interior timber(Which of course was purchased .at an inferior price),' was as useful in sortie parts of ship-building as perfect -tim-' bet', 'and indeed.it would be impossible to pro rure.in this country perfect timber enough for all the purposes. to which .timber was applied. The Honourable Gentleman then contended; that all-the efforts of the 'Navy Board to procure 'a supply Of fo 7 reign' :timber-had-beet frustrated' by the injudicious measure; of the Board of .Adniiralty. He had no hesitation in Saying, that the removal of Lord St. front Vincent that Board,hjd saved-the Navy. The supply of timber the dock-yards ought to be full -30,000 loads annually. In 1802 the 'supply was re duced to 23,000 loads; and•iii 1.863 still - further to 17,000, which afforded : a proof of the shameful neglect of Earl' St. Vincent with respe& to the re pairS'of. the 'Navy and the supply of . timber. The Von. -Gentleman then _read a long string of Resolu tions, founded upon and affirming the various.state ments contained speech, and concluded with a 'Resolution, " That itantrars.to the House, that Earl St. Vincent had :ken guilty of great neglect, misconduct, and dereliction of ltis 'duty, whilst"he hau'held the office of First Lord of *the Adm i ralty . "! The Hon. Member then moved, that theseßeso lutiatts be referred to a Committee of the whole House. • The SPEAKER acquainted the Hon. Gentleman, that he might, either Make a MOtion' upon any 'one of his Resolutions, or•move, that the. Papers on the Table shoUld - be rthrred to a Committee of the whole House ; bdt that - he could not move that what he called Resolutions should 'be'referred. to a Committee. Mr. JEFFERY. then moved, that the several Paper . on the Table Of the Hoilse, relative to t Earl St. 'V iu ent, should be referred to a Committee ofthe whole House. - Mr. DENT seconded the Motion, but would not pledge himself to any thing moie,than the Question he then seconded. The SPEAKER, before he should put the ques tion, thought it necessdry to call the attention of the House to the present circumstances of the case. - The Hon . Member had, for the greater patt of the 'evening, read his statements and arguments, in sup port of his Resokttions, froth awritten speech. This was a prailice,net usual in their •proceedings, and he had expec=ted that some Gentleman would have put ai stop to it. MotiveS of delicacy had prevented him self'from, interrupting the, Hon. Gentleman; but •flow„that the Hon. Gentleman had gone through-his statements, he felt it his duty to call the attention of the House to the sUbjed, lest the practice should 17e drawn into precedent. . On the QUestion being pnt, Admiral MA RKHA 111, in offering himself to re 'what he conceived to be one of the most un founded ebarges . that had: ever .been brought forward' in that House ; lan - tented that the business had not fallen into abler hands, and that he had not the ad .vantage of, a Written document to assist him. He had also to lament, that'during-the whole course of the proceedings on this subjeet, the Hon. Gentleman had declined 'giving the , 'Slightest hint of the point to which his attack was to be dire6ted..He knew nothing betbre twelve-o'clock that morning of theßesolutions of the Hon. Gentleman, and if he bad-been acquaint ed with them in time, he would have saved the House the trouble of ordering. the large volume of Papers which he had thought it necessary for the justification of his Noble Friend to move for. Since he had receivdd .the copy of the Resolu tions, he had been engaged by his 'official du ties, : and had not had leisure -to examine them.. Flaying, premised thus Much, he should proceed to repel the Charges made by the Honourable Gentle man. The first point to which the Hon.Gentleman:s charge went, respected the building 'of ships in gene . The Hon. Gentleman bad stated, that between 1793 and 1801, 66 ships of the line had been :built, including the captured ships. This was an unfair statement. Wltat,had Captured Ships to do with the Measures of the Admiralty for building shipS for the Navy. Leaving out the captured ships, therefore, as he contended ought in, fairness to be done,- the Whole number bniit in the -King's and MerchantS' docks in the period alluded to was, in 1393', two, .1794 two, 1795 one, 1796 six, 1797 two, 1.798 . se `yen; 1799 none, and in 1800 two; in all sail. By those documents on the Table it would appear, on' the other hand, that from Feb. 1801, to April, 1802, three sail of the line had been built ; between Apri1,18,0;, , , and. March;lBo3, two sail; and between • ,March, 1803; and May, 1804, five sail ; making in: the whole, ten sairof •the line, in little better than 3 years, that Earl St. Vincent had been at the head Of the Admiralty, whilst in the antecedent eight years .only twenty-two sail bad been built'. The House • would, in looking at that statement; see whether there had been any deficiency on the part of Earl St. Vincent. .He - came next to the state in which he left this part of the Service. It appeared . that; when Earl St. Vincent came into Office; there bad . been fifteen ships of the lineon the Stocks, and when be went out of Office he left eighteen sail, in order to be built. The Hun. Gentleman might say; ay! . but where are they ?—The orders had been given by the Admiralty to have them built, and so far as. 'the Admiralty was Concerned, it mattered not whether they had been gtuallY begun or net. There was nothing novel in this'. ,Ships were otten many 'years after being ordered before they were _-.~--= • `the IkAiniraltyluid :only to give the orders;: together with direr - how respecting - the site; dimen sinns,'&c. and it *as then the dutyof tbe, Navy Board . to execute these orders, If he was int:erre& in this; there Were persons in the House that Could correct hint. If the order's had not been' e.E xecutec4'dH St/Vin cent was no more to blame than with 'rope& to the supply:of_timber, whicb he .should.afterwards ,touch upon. When an order is made by the Adthiralty; the 'lSlavy Board makes rip: the 'estimate voted byParha ment,,and, if the. Money, be not applied - as' voted, the 'fault must rest with the Navy. Board. Besides the. ships of the line left building by Earl St. Vincent; he left 20 or 21 frigates 'building, one of which, the .Irannon, was soon after laundied, tho',-since lost 'on the Coast France ; and °fah& - others; 14 were tleiv at sea. He 'left also 32 sloops .and 21 gun-beigs building, all of which Were now at sea. He had' in , creaSe& the numberuffritzates frOm 183 to - 195, being an increase Of frigates and ships of the , line from eB5 to 3.17. This topic he - ShOuld not have touched npon, if the .-Hon. Gentleman had .not made use of the ocCasion.to dam& -frnm the merits of Earl St.' • Vincent. He came next to onsider the Charge re= Spe&ing - the - repairs of ships. Tbe I louse wotld rea 7 ,dily be sensible that, after a long/and expensive War, the ndmber of. ships that would rennire repairs' must have been prodigious.' The Hon. Gentleman S had said that only 15 Were laid - up in ordinary.; if so, then, what. was the inference, but that' the rest wanted -repairs ? It was not only necessary to' build and, repair Ships, but also to preserve 'them when bUilt or ; repaired. Some money was obtained - forthe public, and a considerable saving in ,shirOteeping, &t. the warrant officers being sent to thesVps building. The Hon, Admiral here read au extra& from the or ders- of the Board-Of Admiralty in 'Feb.- 1803, re, spelling the 'repairs of vessels, and contrasted them •with an order to the same effe& in 1783, to thew . how much more urgent they were. : The guns were put on board, and all necessaries, and heavy stores, and even the ships 'had been stored. The - reasons why the Admiralty had, determined not-to get .re pairs done in the merchants' yards be should state to the House. In the Papers on the Table - would be found a list - of it:3 ships repaired in merchants'" yards. The, Hon. Admiral 'was proteeding to State the na ture of these cases, when Mr. JEI4'fiRY rose to order, on the ground that the Hon. Member was travelling into matter irrele,' taut to his Charges. And was himself called to order by Lord . HOWICK, who insisted that the Hon. Ad miral was perfectly correct. fldiirircrl MARK:IIAM proceeded.—He was sur prised .at the interruption, but the Hon. 'Gentleman may have reasons for it which he could best explain.' The Hon. Admiral then stated several instances of enormous charges for repairs of vessels in the Mer chants' Yards, both before the late War and since the commencement of the present War. From the former period he quoted the .repairs. of the Swift sure, of 32 guns, at 12,3921. though the original cost of the vessel was but 7,9431.; the Maidstone'S re pairs '10,9431, original cost 63741.; and another ves sel, the case of which lie :called 'a bouncer, repairs, • 15,4811 original.cost 9,7301. , From the; latter pe riod he cited the case of the Powerfial, , first cost 31',2301. estimated repairs 20,7051. repairs charged, 30,7161.; also the Lion,, in 180,5, which cost :new 21,3531. and the repairs of which had been es timated by the Chatham Officers at 24,7351. but charged in a Merchant's Yard at_ 61,1091. He came then-to the Charge of having wantonly discharged men from the Dock-yards. The number discharged was 327, - Who, blind and I=6, were incapable of work, but yet received the highest wages hi the respeOive Yards, These Were superannuated, and a farther addition made to the former ,superannua tion allowance. To supply the place, of those men 390 apprentices were introduced between June 1802 and May 1804, all of. Whom were now capable of taking a man's birth. The Hon., Gentleman had said; that Earl St. Vincent deserved no credit-for the late.vielorie.S. Bat he shotild say '-that it was Earl St. Vincent that first noticed Lord Nelson,'when he commanded the Againemnon, a 64, in' the Mediter- ranean : it was he also who made that happy se - leaion that detached Lord Nelson to Egypt.— Str Richard Straclian, who was treading fast in the steps of Earl St. Vincent and 'Lord Nelson, and Sit John Duckworth, had been bred. under him, and the Noble Earl therefore derived some credit froin their successes. It had never been said that fifty ships of the line could be built in 'One year, bur_that the men employed in His Ma jesty's Dock-yards would .be sufficient to build that number if employed 'solely in building. The .Ho nourable Admiral to prove this, made a compara tive statement of, the numbers of men employed in. - the Merchants. and King's Yards, and of. the tonnage of shipping produced annually in each, thcresult . of which was favourable to his position. As' to ,the supply of timber, the Honourable Ad miral asked; 'why, if it was posSible to procure it, the order of the Admiralty, dated 177'6, fox keep ing 66,000 loads always seasoned, had not been complied with ?—The quantity of timber obtained had been decreasing, during the American War and since. In 1775 it was 50,000 loads;' in 1784 the supply had been but 29, iO7 loads ; and in 1786 it was 1.,880 loads. After a long War timber must be scarce, and this scarcity was attributed, in a Letter from the Navy Board in 1785; to the number of ships', built h the Merchants' Docks. When 'bad ships were built in the Merchants' Docks, and came soon afterwards to be repaired in the King's Yards, this .produced an additional consumption of timber.. The Hcin. Admiral then.. referred to some cases of an extraordinary nature, respethng the amount of repairs .required by the Ajax and Achille, built in the Merchants' Yards, shortly after they were launched. He then detailed the various measures taken by Earl St. Vincent to provide a supply of timber for the Navy; first, by an order for 10,000 loads of timber from the 'Banks of .the Rhine,•then by sending to have the timber ofTrinidad surveyed; next by direfting that the large - ships which carry conviEts to Botany Bay should bring home timber; and lastly, by ordering a ship of the line, and a fri gate, to be built at Bombay, both of ,which had al -ready been launched. • Lard GIRLIES having listened - with attention' to the able statements' of the Hon. Oentlem'an_who . Opened this debate, and the:Hon. Admiral opposite, thought the whole question 'Cenfered in this paint— ‘,Vhether the building in' the King's'Yaitts could of ford.a sufficient supply without the, assistance of the Merchants' Yards r Be Itne\i' there ii;as an opiulon, . , • , that- by a dirferent the lahtitii, the . nW . building in the King's Yards might b'e'OrtiiiiB produaicie. The expeiiment was desirable . ; hut to apply the general-theory at once to priktiee ray be attended. with mischief. With . respect: t 9. the Motion" before the House, had no heSitatian tcs vote against it; - for though there were 'some things in 'Earl St. Vincenet •vsysttth whith he . did not ap prove of, he was certain he ailed for the hest ; and his transcendent talents and - setviaes demanded ; that sinless a crearer - inference of default were made out :against him, ito - :censure Of :arty kind should be al 14:).ved to a :Ye: a him. . , . . Lord .1-10 WIC K. could nobc. agree with the Noble Lord Who had spoken last, that the questioo was solely Whether' the building irk. the .King's Yards could suffice :wlthOut the building in the :Nierchanti' Yards. But even ifit were, the Consequences which were-stated in the proposed Resolutions of the Hon. Gentlemaii,cpnld. not follow. It was swreng to im 7 pute any criminality to an honeSt opinion, that a -better application of the Means the King's Yards afforded would lessen, if not 'entirely do .away our dependence, on the . Merchants' I ards. He could , n ot helpinSti4g„ the extraordinary condna of thd non. Gentleman who brought.forwardtheChargesi 'and the Hon, Gentleman who seconded them.- , -L When the Hon. Mover had finished his Speech and read his Charges, he :concluded, not with .moving his first, article,: but" with moving that the House should go into a Committee, without any distina .objea, , satisfied; he Said, with haring horthened .his own shoulders of the lead of these Charges. Then the Hon.• Secooder disclaimed any intention of supporting the Charges, because he did not . understand theme but he second 4 -1 them 'fer the purpose of bringing then before the Hotise:' He did not think - .this fit treatment for a man who, had' done so much tot the glut y and the greatneSs of the Empire. Lord St. Vincent w:is never uDine Or inaftive-When,he had to engage the Enemy : and .a Charge cf supineness in.. a duty no less Important was not slightly to be,sUffered to rest on bin - 1.--; He came now to the - distina points., of .Charge. The sale of stores was tecommended by th e Nay Board ; , and therefore the Noble Lord stood ae-• quitted of all blame fbr that. The enantity was but a supply of three weeks. He 'allowed that the Admiralty was chargeable with' the errors of the Navy Board, when they either permitted these errors by : negligent supervision, .or terced the Navy Board into them by unreasonable commit], He would sliew the House that Lord St. Vincent had not - been guilty of either of these charges.— The nuniberOfships of the line in commi ss i on , w hi c h was•on the close 'of the last war 1,22, was reduced On the peace to thirty-six., It was on the 'break= lug, out of the present war increased by 'Earl St. Vincent,- in .one year, from thirty-six to eighty eight.; . and this:though the vety.charges which im puted so much negligence allowed th a t th ere wer e but two ships in the Navy A.VlaCh did•nnt want repair at the close of the war. The nett year the-numbers rose from 88 to 94 ;, now it was 1:0,1, awl there were Ythore ready to put in commission. Immediately. after'Earl - St. Vincent left the Admiralty, a Supply - was proposed for the urgency of the occasion, by the purchase of 12 East liidiarnen, 12 Occip4, 10. gun-brigs, and 12 gun4esselsof an inferior class . . Only four of these East_ IndlAmen were parchaS ed. One of them which cost 26,8121.'0h' mat:= ing a single voyage .as , convoy to a fleet of India= men, was deserted by the whole, from the know., redge of the badness of hersailing. The \ s VeyinoUth e the ship he alluded - to, cost - the immense " - Price Of 321. per ton. If Lord. St. Vincent had laid down eight sail of the line, abd had given orders to lay down 103 ships, and 14 frigates, of which 39eschoeners; and other smaller vessels, making altobether'•B9 - , were in commission, what room was Lit fi)r A charge of negligence against him? Sixty-one sail had been repaired, Of which 40 were of the line; and tbi Was the man who was said to have ruined the 'Na'v'yi who, if he had, till now continued in office, would have ,prevented the vitilories of Trafalgar, Sir John Duckwortheand Sir Richard Strachan.' It was net Thir to include captures in comparative accounts of the building and rep4ifs: If that were allowed', Toulon might be made superior to Trafalgar, for of 'the ships captured at Trafalgar only four had been saved. There, was besides a peace of eighteen months in Earl St. Vincent's Administration. These considerations proved that the Noble Earl had done - .every thing in the-way of building and repairing fiat the maintenance of the Navy. He allowed-it was de duty of the First Lord of the Admiralty to keep up the Fleet - to that high amount which the circum stances of the times required. Here the Noble Lord went into a long comparative statement of the number of men in the King's and the Merchants' Dock-yards, and the number of tons of shipping built in both, for the ptirpose of shelving that, by proper regulations, more work may. be done in the King's - Yards than was at present. lits Lordship now went over the various statements made by Ad miral Markham, with respect tothe different sup plies of timber procured by Lord St. Vincent, from which- it appeared that every thing practicable' had been'done y and concluded by observing, that the Hon. Mover having ,lao objel, the Seconder being ignorant of the nature of the ChargeS, and the Charges being wholly without foundation, he would vote dire&ly against the Motion. Mr: DENT, -in explanation,: said his obje& in se conding the Motion was, to have the question set at rest for the satisfaaion of the Country. ColOnel Bastard, Mr. Tyrwhitt, Mr. Osborne . Markham, and Mr. Banks, defended the condu& of Lord St. Vincent. Mr. Fox contended, that the whole of the Chargei were frivolous and unfounded; that no argument had been adduced ori the opposite side to substqn, tiate any one of them, while the arguments urged . on his side of the House were completely unan swerable• - ' Mr. inrrEhrs foltowed in a long and general reply, during which he was 4 called to order, fi)r, reading a string of new arguments as part of his Speech. Much conversation arose upon the -point of Order;_ after which the Question was put and carried - without a division. Mr. FOX then observed, .that consequence of the manner in which the Charges had been made amainsi the Noble Lord, without any proof to sub stantiate them, ha felt himself obliged to havexe cothie to a mode of proceedinglittle perhaps pur= sued, but which was not howtver without pree,edent for a similar mode had been, adopted in the cases, of 3i "1