The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1849-09-25 00:00:00

ENT PIRICS and quacks in all ages of the world have had their day —some a long one, and those generally the more impudent and dangerous. But the blow up has always come sooner or later. The metro politan Commission of Sewers, one of the favourites amongst the multitudinous progeny of Mr. Edwin Chadwick, appears to be rapidly approaching its final collapse. For years this collection of sanitary savans have been poking amongst the bad smells of Londob, tinkering a little here and patching a little there, talking magniloquently of comprehensive schemes, which are to render the great Wen sweet as rose and lavender water can wash its multitudi nous aggregate of foulness; but as yet the compre hensive schemes have been all talk, and not even a plan or a report of anything feasible has been forth conling. There are symptoms, however, at length, that the patience of the public is becoming ex hausted; and the powerful advocacy of the Times has been brought into requisition to put down the nuisance. Our contemporary thus characterizes the body : TUESDAY MORNING, SEPT. 25, 1849. • THE state of the Railway Share Market has for some time been an enigma to all save the unini tiated. It was conceived by most thinking men that we had long ago got rid of the evil effects of most of the insane projects which were originated durin the mania of 1845 and 1346. The various bubble "directs" and "junctions," " branches" and "extensions." bad been swept away; and of their projectors some had shared the same fate; and a few more astute than the rest had, from the condi tion of penniless adventurers, become " snug" men, who could, from their bettered position, afford an " aside" sneer, or laugh, at the folly of their dupes. It was known that many improvident bargains had been made by our leading companies ; that too much had been paid for staving off this or that mushroom opponent ; that lines of undoubted, though over-estimated, value, had been purchased at prices far too high. Still, it was hoped that when our temporary monetary derangements should have been surmounted : when stock and scrip held by - needy speculators should have found their way into the hands of men of capital, whose object was bona fide investment, the value of railway shares, like that of every other kind of property, would be measured by the extent of the return which they offered to the purchaser. Such, in a great measure, was the case when the extraordinary peculations of Mr. George Hudson and his colleagues were suddenly brought to light. A further How was thus dealt against the reviving confidence of the public. Every great company found its affairs at once eagerly canvassed by dis appointed shareholders and speculators, who had missed their market. Many of these companies came tolerably untainted out of the enquiries insti tuted. Some emerged from the supervision of lynx-eyed accountants with triumph, instead of reproach. Our great Company—the London and North Western—was not even suspected of delin quency, although it has shared in the general de pression caused by individual malversation. Yet even the best lines proved themselves incapable of paying the same dividends which their working had originally yielded. Amalgamations, guarantees, and leases had reduced their profits; and ignorant panics, seizing hold of the shareholders,'enabled the " Bear" operators to do with their property as they listed. Our powerful contemporary the London Times, who was the first to raise his voice to check the madness which characterised the spring of 1846, has very properly stepped forward to arrest the equal madness which is just now impelling men to throw away even the best secured and most sta ble railway property. Our contemporary, after admitting that hitherto the facts which have been brought to light have been in favour of a decline in the prices of railway shares, and referring to the tremendous fall experienced last week, which, he contends, cannot be attributed to the effect of mo netary panic, but instead, to the vague fears cause by reports of committees of investigation, or de• creased dividends, thus endeavours to re-assure timid holders : "Admitting," he says, " the statements now published on unexceptionable authority—admitting that the divi dends should be scanty, or even nil—admitting also the injurious consequences o f th e com p e titi on now d a il y show ing itself between the great companies as their respective lines advance to completion—admitting all this, we still advise those who can to retain possession of their shares, and not to throw them away at the present depreciation. We say those who can;' and it is only a certain class whom it is possible to advise in this matter. * * * * We can only address ourselves to those who havi ng o th er capital for maintenance or trad e i nves t a di s p osa bl e por tion in shares, and wha will not starve if they receive no dividend, or be mined if the capital disappears. It is useless for us to advise any others. This class of share holders—a numerous one, it is to be hoped —we do ad vise not to be frightened at 3 per cent. instead of 7, or 1 per cent. instead of 5. With the fluctuations of the prices, of course, they have nothing to do. " In support of this advice we offer the following con siderations. On the authority of the statements before us, unfavourable as they are deemed to be, the expendi ture and burdens of these companies are known and de termined, while their profits arc certain, in the long MI, to increase. The rate of that increase it would be idle to conjecture, but if any one will consider the rapid steps by which travelling and traffic have increased in this country at any given intervals—if, for example, he will compare, as he easily may, the number of public conveyances in the years 1775, 1800, 1825, and 1850, he must conclude that in the year 1875 the internal travelling and traffic of this nation will be nearly doubled, if not more. From the last three years we can form no sort of augury. They have been years of unexampled calamity and depression ; and railways themselves were the first to suffer by the throes and agonies, so to speak, of their production. The original expenditure of the railways, and the immense fixed incumbrances subsequently undertaken, have re duced the profits of the original shareholders to a very narrow margin. As has lately been proved in some in stances, this margin has been easily destroyed by the pressure of bad times ; but it will receive the undivided benefit, not only of occasional good times, but of the cer tain increase of our travelling and other traffic. The speculation has been undertaken in a very exaggerated form by the original shareholders ; they have borne the brunt of the day, and whatever success there is will be wholly theirs." We would advance a few additional considera tions to the above, so ably put forward by our con temporary. In the first place it is scarcely correct to say that " the expenditure and burdens of these companies are fixed and determined." The ex penses of management of most railway companies are capable of being economised ; and, with respect to one very material item of railway expenditure— the cost of haulage—it must, unless we take it for granted, which few will venture to do, that science has already done its utmost in perfecting the appli cation of the steam engine to locomotion, be re garded as capable of being much further reduced in cost. Nor are the fixed incumbrances determined. Numbers of lines, purchased by large companies, have fixed dividends, guaranteed only for a limited period; and many of these guarantees have been improvidently made. The London and North- Western, the York Newcastle and Berwick, the Midland, the Lancashire and Yorkshire, the Man chester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, and other companies, have guaranteed large per centages to purchased or leased lines, which, at the expiry of a brief time, will receive only the dividend earned by the whole amalgamated lines. Many companies, too, have been compelled to exercise their borrow ing power at extreme rates—say 44 to 5 per cent. —whereas it is tolerably certain that they will be able to replace their loans at 34 and 4 per cent ;- and it must be borne in mind that the saving in these cases will be upon one-third of the gross amount expended. There is this absurdity, too, in taking the whole amount yielded in any particular year, as the criterion of the value of railway stock. Independently of the acknowledged effect of mone tary depression in decreasing travelling or traffic, "other descriptions of property, we all know, are 'subject to diminished returns for the capital ex pended. Household property is occasionally unoc cupied, and necessary repairs frequently inconve nience the owners, who are solely, or mainly, dependent upon its yield. Profits upon capital employed in trade are continually being swept away by bad debts and otherwise, yet no one sells property, or a business, at a value estimated by its yield in such years. The return of capital sunk in railways, moreover, is tolerably certain to go on progressing, as new elements of traffic deve lope themselves. The mineral wealth in the neigh bourhood of new lines is only in progress of deve lopement; and with respect to passenger traffic even, we have yet to learn what will be its increase when the movement now going on, which promises to establish suburban villages and detached resi dences in localities within from ten to twenty miles distance of large towns, possessed of railway facili ties, shall have been extensively adopted by the public. Viewing the subject in all its bearings, we have no hesitation in advising our friends, who are bona fide holders of stock, in established lines, to hold on firmly. We would say also, to speculators who have bought for a rise, or are bulls,—and we are not inclined to admit, with our contemporary, that " The report of yesterday's proceedings at the Court of Sewers, which will be found in another column, contri butes another page to the long and shameful record of ignorance, imbecility, and confusion which the annals of the present Commission have already furnished. Posterity will be at a loss whether to admire most the indifference of a public, or the recklessness of a government, which could have delegated by far the most important work which this century has conceived—a work upon which the credit of the whole nation is at stake, and in which the health and happiness of millions are involved—to the management of a committee the leading •members of which know far less about the subject than the humblest bricklayer employed in the service." This is pretty fair for an opening, and yet it is short of full justice, for a more absurd course of proceeding than that which is being adopted by the Commissioners cannot be conceived. It must be borne in mind that they have, as yet, no com prehensive system of main sewers. Even the levels of various portions of the town are imperfectly ascertained. It is not determined where the outfall of the various districts is to be; whether the sewers are to be flushed into the rivers,—poisoning the water and the atmosphere of the whole metropolis —or the contents conveyed into the country to be made available as manure. Yet they are proceeding to compel the owners of existing streets, or houses, to make house-drains, into sewers which have no existence, which they ingeniously suggest should be so constructed as to suit any outfall which may be fixed upon ! This is botching the business with a vengeance; pursuing the very piece-meal course by which three-fourths of the money, which has been spent in severing and draining throughout the kingdom, might just as well have been thrown into the sea. Well does our contemporary exclaim " Only conceive a man undertaking to build a house beginning from the roof downwards ! Conceive an engi neer proceeding to erect a water-wheel, without ever troubling himself about a supply of water, or the means of discharging it ! Conceive, if possible, a human being provided with a stomach. and the proper organs of diges tion—only destitute of the usual channels by which the stomach is emptied and replenished ! Such, and many similar comparisons force themselves upon the mind when listening to one of Mr. Chadwick's expositions of his ideas of drainage. Active and restless as his imagination ap pears to be, it never wanders beyond the sphere of blocks of 40 or 50 houses and 4-inch pipes. " In all that Mr. Chadwick has done he has simply re lieved one locality at the expense of others. His system of house-draining without a supply of water. of flushing his sewers into the Thames, and of laying down his capil laries or house drains without providing or even consider ing his outfall, exhibits an ignorance of the first principles of drainage, of which any mole or rat—those practical workmen—would be ashamed." " It is really high time that the Government should interfere and put an end to these absurdities. We observe that Mr. John Buller threatened that, in the event of Mr. Leslie persisting in his motion to abolish the Trial of Works Committee, he should move, as an amendment, that the Commission itself should be dissolved. We think the suggestion an excellent one; and hope it may be adopted in time to prevent the Commission from poi soning the Thames at Kingston and Richmond, as they have done at Westminster and Blackfriars." business of any kind can go on without such par- SPECIAL MEETING OF THE COUNCIL. ties—" If you, gentlemen hold your hands awhile YESTERDAY. and refuse to sell—(money is easy enough) —you i IMPORTANT PROCEEDINGS OF THE SPECIAL have the bears' in your own hands. and you may WATER COMMITTEE. now, for once, get the best of it. The decline has been so material, and of such long continuance, that not only are the dealers inside the stock exchanges, large bears, but also many speculators outside—together making a greater bear account open in the average than there has been for years. Withhold sales therefore for a few weeks, and you will reap a rich reward. The cholera is gradually leaving us, and increased traffics will give an addi tional impulse to a re-action." A special meeting of the council was held yesterday at the Town-hall, to take into consideration and determine upon the " Report of the Special Water Committee, re commending that application be made to the Lords Com missioners of her Majesty's Treasury, for permission to mortgage a portion of the lands, tenements, and heredi taments of the corporation, sufficient to raise the sum of £200,000 to meet the payments due and to accrue due under existing.; contracts, entered into for the purpose of the new works authorised by the Liverpool Corpora tion Waterworks Act, 1847, and referring also to resolu tions passed by the Financial Sub-committee of the Water Committee, relative to payment of money by the treasurer of the water account." There was but a thin attendance of members at the commencement of the proceedings. His Worship the Mayor presided, and on opening the business of the council observed that they were met to take into consi deration the report of the special water committee on the points referred to in the notice paper. Mr. DRIFFIELD then read the report, which was as follows : TO CORRESPONDENTS. The butter which was palmed on a shopkeeper, in Cable-street, as stated in our last, weighed onll two pounds and a half after the water had been extracted from it. It was sold as five pounds weight. No further notice was taken, we believe, of the unfortunate occurrence referred to by our correspondent at Newcastle on-Tyne than that which was published in our columns: We wish we could have found room for the whole of the letter of "A Constant Reader." Our correspondent says:—" I find by the annals of this town, that in the year 1667, the water in Mosslake-fields was preserved by floodgates for the cleansing of the old pool. Perhaps some one of the advo cates of the Rivington Pike scheme can inform me what has caused the disappearing of that lake? It has for a long time past struck me very forcibly that the cause has been the sinking of the wells for the supplying of the town with water. if lam right, would it rot be well for our worthy Town Council, or should I have said for those in it, who ad vocate the Pike scheme, TO pause and consider before they close up the old waterworks, lest the springs again rise to the overflowing of the aforesaid site?" Ehr Eibtrpool &tanbarti. THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. LATEST INTELLIGENCE. (BY EXPRESS.) TATTERSALL'S.—LAST. NIGHT. TWO YEAR OLD TRIENNIAL. 3 to 1 agst Ghillie Callum 3to 1 „ Hardinge 2 to 1 „ Knight of Avenel GRAND D. ST. MICHAEL. 5 to 1 agst Vatican 4 to 1 „ Honey-comb THREE YEAR OLD TRIENNIAL. 6 to 4 agst Tadmor 5 to 2 „ Vatican 100 to 10 „ Ghillie Callum and Tadnor, both winning CHESTER HANDICAP. 4 to 1 agst Chatterer CASAREWITCH. 12 to 1 agst Glenalcon—taken freely 20 to 1 „ Essedarius—offered 15 to 1 „ St. Roselea—taken 20 to 1 „ Glen Saddle, Lady Evelyn, and Raby (t) 30 to 1 „ Legerdemain—taken CAMBRIDGESHIRE. 16 to 1 agst Ribaldry—taken 20 to 1 „ Rhesus DERBY. 10 to 1 agst Lord Eglintoun's lot 17 to 1 „ John o' Groat 50 to 1 „ Nigger 40 to 1 „ Deicoon 45 to 1 „ Bolingbroke 40 to 1 „ Garforth—taken LONDON MONEY MARKET.-YESTERDAY. The first transactions in the English funds this morning were done at an advance in price, but the improvement bas not been sustained to the present time. Consols opened at 9U to I for money, and 921 to 93 for account, being an advance of * on the last quotations of Saturday's market; but they have since receded, and are at present quoted 921 to for money, and 92i to * for the 17th October. Exchequer Bills mark Is. lower, at 355. and 38s. pm. LONDON SHARE MARKET.—YESTERDAY. The Share market continues to recover from the depression which characterised it lately, and prices of most lines again mark sensibly higher this morning, though the tone at this moment is not suite so firm as at the commencement of busi. ness. Caledonians have touched 16; Eastern Counties 711 Great Northerns, 7I; Great Westerns, 60; Brightons, 71j; London and North. Weste rns , 114 ; London awl South Wes terns, ; Midlands, 54k. In the French share Market not mu ch is doing. Boulogne and Amiens mark 6i, and Paris an d Strasbourg 5. LONDON CORN MARKET.-YESTERDAY There was a tolerably goon supply of English Wheat by land carriage samples from the near counties, the quality and con dition upon the whole being better than that or last week; the trade, however, was slow, and Monday's rates were with diffi culty redised. In foreign Wheat a limited amount of business was transacted at about former prices. English Barley in short supply and fully as dear. Foreign was rather easier to pur chase. The receipt of Oats from abroad have again been liberal during the past week, nevertheless the quotations of this day se'nnsght were well maintained. Beans and Peas a slow sale, with the turn in price in favour of the buyer. SMITHFIELD CATTLE MARKET.—YESTERDAY. We have had a very large increase in the supply of Beasts, but the average quality is by no means first-rate. The choicest kinds are disposed of at about 2d. per sibs.; several inferior qualities remain unsold. The number of Sheep is about the same as of late, but the demand has considerably decreased. Lower prices are consequently taken. HOUSE ROBBERY.—At the Police-court yesterday, three men, Walters, Jones, and Glew, were charged with this offence. An elderly man, a maker of and dealer in jewel lery, plate, &c., said that on Sunday forenoon, he left the house of Mr. Hardisty, No. 113, Great Homer -street, where he lodged, and went to church. On his return he found the house had been entered, and his portmanteau, boxes, &c., broken open and nearly emptied of their valuable contents. Information was given to the police. The prisoners being suspected, their places of abode were searched ' • two of them lived together, and th e o th er , Walters, keeps a beer-house. In the houses were found a large quantity of false keys. They were remanded. CLERICAL PROMOTIONS.—The see of Madras, vacant by the resignation of Dr. Spencer, is understood to be given to Archdeacon Dealtry, the successor of Mr. Bap tist Noel at St. John's Chapel. The archdeacon having spent many years in India, and being still in the vigour of life, the appointment is a judicious one in every point of view. It is anticipated, we believe, that the Rev. Thos. Nolan, one of the most eminent of the Liverpool clergy, will succeed the archdeacon in St. John's Chapel. The Episcopal Chapel in Gray's-inn-lane, of which the Rev. Thomas Mortimer has for some years been the minister, is about to be resigned by him to the Rev. Edw ar d Gal bett, now lecturer of St. George's Church, Southwark. This is the chapel which it was apprehended would be taken by the friends of Mr. Baptist Noel. Mr. Garbed commences his incumbency early in October.—Morning Herald of yesterday.—[We have been aware for several days of the wish of the patrons of St. John's Chapel to secure the eminent ministerial services of Mr. Nolan •, and, if they succeed in doing so, they will have provided for that flock as sound a scriptural teacher and as pains taking and devoted a pastor as any in the kingdom. His congregation here will be deeply grieved to be separated from him.] REPORT. The claims under existiiiirconiracts entered into by the Corporation, for constructing the new works authorised by the Liverpool Corporation Watez works Act, 1847, are now accruing, more especially the payment to the contractors for the iron pipes, who have already delivered upwards of 3,000 tons of pipes, and further quantities are being daily received. By the terms of the contract the contractors are entitled to payment, on certificate of the engineer of the delivery of pipes, by instal ments equal to three-fourths of the value of the pipes delivered, within one month front the time of delivery, and some pay ments are now due, and others will rapidly follow, which it is expected, for the honour and character of the Corporation, should be regularly and promptly met. The Comycil have been advised that the Corporate Estate, as distinguished from the Borough fund, may be made liable at law for non-performance of these contracts on the part of the Corporation. Feeling that the Council would not desire to put parties having just claims against the Corporation to the delay and inconvenience of resorting to legal proceedings for the re covery of their demands, and which proceedings would ulti mately throw additional expense on the Corporate funds, your committee recommend that application be made to the Lords of the Treasury, under the provisions of the Municipal Cor porations Acts, to mortgage a portion of the lands, rents, and hereditainents of the Corporation,and thereby raise a sufficient sum to meet the demands under existing contracts and en gagements. This sum your committee estimate at £200,000, and they recommend for adoption the memorial to the Lords of the Treasury now submitted, praying for leave to mortgage the Corporate Estate, for the purpose of raising that sum, in order to meet these demands as they accrue due. Hafing called upon Mr. Ashlin, thp treasurer of the water account, to lay before them a statement of the position of that account, your committee received from him a report, at the conclusion of which is the following paragraph : " I hope the committee vviir bear with me for a moment, to crave their indulgence in submitting these accounts, which I hope will be clear and intelligible, whilst 1 say tat my present position is a very uncomfortable one, owing to my hands being tied up by the Water Committee in the resolutions which they passed•on Friday and Monday last, my only desire being to do my duty faithfully to the Council, whose servant I have the honour to be." Upon referring to the resolutions named by Mr. Ashlin, your committee find the following minutes recorded upon the pro ceedings of the Financial Committee of the Water Committee:— " At a meeting of the Financial Sub-committee of the Water Committee, held in the committee-room, Cornwallis-street, on the 10th of September, 1849, present Messrs. Harbord, Bennett, Beckwith, Hodson, Langsdale, and Wagstaff, Henry G. Har bord, Esq., in the chair. A letter from the town-clerk to the chairman, with reference to his sanctioning payments on ac count of contracts for iron pipes fur the Rivington Works for 42050 Os. 9d., having been read, and which payments were made from moneys advanced otherwise than in accordance with the provisions of the Liverpool Corporation Waterworks Act, 184,7, " itesolved,—That the treasurer be, and he is hereby directed not to pay any moneys on account of the Rivington Works, except such moneys have been first borrowed on bond, in ac cordance with the provisions of the Liverpool Water Works Act, 1847. "itteslved,—That the bankers, Messrs. Arthur Heywood, Sons, and e requested not to honour any cheques on the " Liverpool Co.,Vater account," except such as are signed (in con junction with the treasurer) by the chairman or some other of the Water Committee, which at present consists of the follow ing members, viz.:— " Mn. H. G. Harmon"), Chairman, " WM. BENNETT, Deputy chairman, "R. M. BECKWITH, I "THOS. L. HODSON, '6 EDW. LANOS DALE , "THOS. WAGSTAFF, and that the bankers be informed from time to time of any al terations that may be made in the names of the members of the said committee." And your committee find that, before the proceedings of that sub-committee bad been submitted to the Water Committee or sanctioned by the Council, a copy of the resolution relating to the banking was forwarded by the chairman of the committee to Messrs. A. Heywood, Sons, and Co., the bankers of the cor poration. Your committee t',ink it right that no time should be lost in notifying to the council this extraordinary proceed ing. Your committee have been directed by the council to carry out the recommendation of the report submitted to and adopted by the council on the 29th August last, and it appears that, on the appointment of your committee as a special com mittee for that purpose, the powers and duties of the Water Committee became limited and confined to the management of the existing works. Your committee therefore recommend that the Council should recommend the Water Committee to withdraw the notice which, without any authority from the Council, they have given to the bankers of the corporation; that the watercommitteeshould be further instructed to confine their proceedings to the busipess arising from the carrying out of the existing works, and that all business connected with the prosecution of the new works, including the raising of the ne cessary funds, and giving orders for the payment of moneys on that account, should be transacted by their committee. Your committee are advised by the treasurer that there would be no practical difficulty or inconvenience in separating the accounts, so as to show a new works account and an existing works ac count, both accounts at the end of the financial year, be ing brought into one general account, as directed by the act of Parliament, and your committee recommend that they be au thorised to instruct the treasurer accordingly. [Signed) G. H. LAWRENCE. A memorial from the Vestry of the parish of Liverpool, signed Richard Harbord, praying that the Council would not pursue the course recommended by the special com mittee was then read, after which, • Mr. HARBORD suggested that as a case had been sub mitted to counsel for opinion, as that opinion had been received, and as the special committee professed to be guided by the opinion so received, that the opinion should be read before any further proceedings were gone into. THE MAYOR.—That case has already been before the Council ; but if you wish to have it read it shall be done. Mr. HARBORD.—The case I allude to never was before the Council at all. Mr. HORNBY submitted that they should hear the chairman of the committee in confirmation of the pro ceedings first, and if Mr. Harbord wished to have any thing read, he might have it done afterwards. Mr. HARBORD observed that his reason for asking that the opinion might be read was because it differed materially from the report of the Special Committee, although the committee professed to be guided by its opinion. _ _ The matter then dropped. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE then rose to move the confirma tion of the report. He said that in rising to move the confirmation of the report, he was constrained to express his deep regret at the absence of Mr. Bolt, the chairman of the Water Committee, in whose hands the subject would have been much more ably handled than in his : nevertheless, lie did not shink from the duty which had devolved upon him. The report in question stated, in as clear and comprehensive a manner as possible, the nature of the recommendation which it was their duty to submit to the Council that day. It proposed to mortgage, for a time, the estate of the Corporation for the purpose of ena .bling them to meet the engagements of the Water Com mittee—engagements which they were at present unable to fulfil. That was their object to day ; and he hoped that their deliberations would be confined to that object alone, and that they would not wander into the discussion of other subjects. He did not ask the Council to go into the Rivingtou scheme. He did not consider that that was the question in dispute ; neither did he consider that the admissibility or the non-admissibility of the contracts formed the subject matter of their present meeting. The object of the present meeting was to consider whether there was any other course to be token than the one pro posed, by which they could honourably and fairly meet their engagements. As men of business,asmen of honour, honesty, and integrity, he hop e d th a t they would not shrink from meeting this difficulty, and, as honourable men, he saw no other course open to them than the one now proposed. There was no doubt but that money amounting to £200,000 was either due or would soon be due. Mr. HARBORD . —No, no . Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—The money if not due now would soon be due, and must be paid. (Hear, hear.) They might now refuse to pay this money; they might cramp the energies of the committee; they might damage the character of the Corporation ; they might drive the contractors to bankruptcy and ruin ;—but in any court of law they could not withstand the honest and just claim of these men. It was his opinion that where difficulties like the present occurred, it was their duty to meet them boldly and firmly ; and pursuing the course which he now recommended, he begged to state that he was not advo cating any new doctrine, for when this subject came first before the Council, and when the Water Committee found themselves unable to meet their engagements, he took a course nearly similar to the present, for he recommended that their payment should be referred to the Finance Com mittee. Mr. Allen's account had been paid, and he con tended that there was no difference between the claims of Mr. Allen and those of the people who were now im portunate for their money. Mr. HARBORD.—Decidedly there is. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE contended that there was no difference between the two classes of accounts ; they were both to be paid for out of the monies to be raised under the water act. He would ask if it was likely that parties at a distance who were supplying them with pipes, cared whether those pipes were for Castle-street or Rivington. They were all got under the water act, and it was the same to those parties if the Council used the pipes for either place. In endeavouring to have these matters settled, and in having every. proper claim paid, it was the desire of the committee to act honestly, and fulfill their duties faithfully as Town Councillors. He had ever regretted that they should be compelled to impose new burthens upon the Corporate Estate ; but in this case it was unavoidable. They knew that the expenses of the town were provided for out of the rates and rentals of the town property, instead of out of the Corporate Estate ; but on an occasion of emergency like the present, were such things to stand in the way to prevent them from doing that which was just and honest ? He thought not; for he had too much confidence in the Council, as men of honour, and as men of business, to expect that they would do so. He would ask them, as men of business; and as merchants of Liverpool, as members of the Town Council, and as tradesmen, to take the case of these men (the contractors) into consideration, and in that spirit of manly integrity which ever characterised their actions, to pay these men their just demands, and not compel them to resort to legal measures for the recovery of their own. (Hear, hear.) He would put the case to them in another form—suppose these contracts had been taken up by men in Liverpool instead of Glasgow ; if this money was to be divickdamongst the manutacturers of their own town, and spread amongst their own artisans,—and if the same course was attempted to be pursued they would be goaded into the payment long since. (Hear, hear.) Let them weigh the matter well, and see if they could refuse if that were the case. They had been told that if this course should be adopted the bondholders would be ruined ; but he could assure the bondholders that they had no business to be afraid. What was the position of the bondholders ? They possessed the security of the corporate estate, worth nearly £7,000,000, whilst their bonds debts did not, after deducting the amount due by the dock trust, amount to more than £600.000. What was the security ? Let them look at the vast estates of the corporation, and where would they find such security ? But, after all, the real sheet anchor of the bondholders was, in being able to come upon the property of every individual, to make good a deficiency, should such ever occur, by means of a borough rate. (" Hear, hear," from Mr: Harbord.) In reality, however, the bondholders were not alarmed ; they were much more likely to be alarmed by any breach of faith on the part of this council, and by the statements which were put forth respecting the water account. He did not pretend to say that the committee which he represented were infallible ; they might be wrong—they believed themselves to be right—but even if wrong, there was still the right of appeal against them ; for they could not take one farthing of this money from their corporate estate, without applying to the Lords of the Treasury for permis sion to do so. He had no doubt but that when this appeal was made to the Lords of the Treasury, it would be met in the same way that all such applications were met by that board, If, on that application being made, the Lords of the Treasury thought they were wrong, why they would submit to the decision with goodwill, but if they thought that the committee were right —as he believed would be the case—then he had no hesitation in saying that they would be enabled to do a great deal of good. (Hear, hear.) In asking for the confirmation of this proposal they were not asking the Council to do that which would fix the Council in any new projects; they were not going to do anything further in consequence of this with the Rivington project; they were merely asking leave to do that which was honest, fair, and proper; and, therefore, with these feelings he begged leave to move the first reso lution, as follows : That the report, so far as it recommends that application be made to the Lords Commissioners of her Majesty's Treasury for permission to mortgage a portion of the lands, rents, and hereditaments of the body corporate sufficient to raise a sum or sums of money not exceeding in the whole the sum of £200,000, to meet the payments due, and to accrue due, under existing obligations entered into by, and on the part of, the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses, in respect of the act called " The Liverpool Corporation lVaterworks Act, 1847," or other wise, in securing the interest upon such sum or sums of money, if borrowed under the power and provisions of the said act as counsel may advise; and that the following memorial to the said Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, showing the posi tion and wishes of the Council, be sealed with the common seal and transmitted to their lordships by the Mayor, and that no tice of the intention of the Council to make such application be forthwith given, as required by law. The MAYOR.—The Town-Clerk might as well read the memorial on the subject to the Lords of the Treasury. Alderman PROCTOR.—I think it right to ask if there are any other resolutions on the subject than the one now proposed ? Mr. G. 11. LAWRENCE.—They are so small and insig nificant that it is not worth referring to them. Mr. PROCTOR.—They are not too small, nor yet too insignificant for us to understand. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—Then read the whole of the resolutions, which were subsequently proposed seriatim. Mr. HARBORD asked if it was not the usual course first to move the adoption of the report, and then to move certain resolutions upon it ? Mr. HORNBY.—eertainly. He wished to ask the Town- Clerk if the objects of the resolutions would not be gained by simply moving that the report be adopted ? The TOWN-CLERK.—Yes, except that the memorial must appear upon the minutes of the Council. Alderman HORSFALL observed, that if the Council adopted the report they adopted everything, and there was no necessity for any resolution whatsoever. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE then acquiesced in the sugges tion of Mr. Horsfall. The MAYOR then, for the information of the Council, read the resolutions which were to follow, of which the subjoined is a copy : That the Water committee be instructed to withdraw the notice which, without any authority from this Council, has been given to Messrs. Arthur Heywood, Sons and Co., the bankers of the Corporation, as recorded on the minutes of the pro ceedings of the Finance Sub• Committee of the Water Com mittee, under date the 14th day of September instant, and set forth in the above report; and that the Mayor be requested also, to send a copy of this resolution to Messrs. Heywood and Company. That it be an instruction tithe Water Committee to confine their proceedings to the business arising from the carrying out of the existing waterworks, including the giving orders for the payment of money on that account, and that they be not authorised to take into consideration or deal with any matter relating to the new works authorised to be constructed by the said act, called " The Liverpool Corporation Waterworks Act, 1847." That all matters connected with the prosecution of such new works, be referred to and managed by the Special Committee appointed to carry into effect the report presented to this Council on the 29th day of August last, and that such com mittee be authorised and empowered to give orders for the pay ment of money on account of such new works. After some further discussion, The TOWN CLERK read the memorial, which stated that the Special Water Committee could not raise the monies necessary to meet existing contracts and carry on the works -of the Water Act of 1847 ; that they had no power to appropriate any portion of the borough fund to that purpose, but that they were advised that the necessary funds might be borrowed on the security of the corporate estate. as distinguished from the borough fund, and prayed that they might be allowed powers to borrow upon that security the sum of £20,000. Mr. HARBORD. during the reading of this part of the memorial, rose and said that he did not know whether he was in order now, but really the matter involved in the report and the memorial were of so much importance that he felt that the two or three days which they had to con sider them were not sufficient for that purpose. He would therefore move that the Council should adjourn for a week. The MAYOR.—You cannot now do so till after the memorial is read. Mr. BRISCOE.—This takes precedence of everything. The MAYOR.—Yes, but the reading of a document takes precedence of all, when once it is commenced to be read. The reading of the memorial was then concluded ; after which Mr. HARBORD put his motion formally. Mr. JOHNSON felt great pleasure in seconding the motion of Mr. Harbord. Mr. S. HOLME said, that if they could adjourn the claims of hunger as preferred by the wives of the workmen of such men as Stewart and Stevenson ; and if Mr. Stewart could get out of the difficulties in which this delay was placing him, he would vote for an adjournment ; but as the case admitted of no delay, he would not Tote for an adjournment. The vote was then taken, when there were For the adjournment Against it ... 22 Majority.... 6 The following gentlemen voted for the adjournment:— Councillors E. Langsdale, W. Walthew, J. Woodruff, J. Thompson, W. Preston, T. L. Hodson, J. Briscoe, H. G. Harbord, J. Rogers, J. Johnson, W. Bennett, W. P. Freme, R. M. Beckwith, E. C. Hindley ; Aldermen John Holmes, John Bent. Against it—Councillors J. G. Morris, T. Littledale, J. Aikin, H. Hornby, D. Bell, Thomas Rimmer, S. Holme. J. A. Tobin, T. Kaye, G. H. Lawrence, W. Watson, R. Benn, W. Mann, W. Fisher ; Aldermen tl. Swainson, T. B. Horsfall, J. Cooper, J. N. Wood, J. Procter, E. Molyneux, T. Chilton, The Mayor. Mr. COOPER then seconded the motion of Mr. Law rence. Mr. TnomsoN asked what portion of the £480,000 had been borrowed ? Mr. MORILIS.—About £30,000. Mr. TnomsoN:—And the old water company would have got £200,000 readily ? Mr. S. HoLME.—Certainly. Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—The amount borrowed is £30,844 14s. is. 1 %Mr. HARBORD.—AIIow me to say that that is a fallacy altogether. Mr. TuosisoN was of opinion that if the question had been more calmly gone into from the beginning, the money could easily have been borrowed. (Hear, hear.) At the same time he knew that he had not met a single man in Liverpool—whether he was in favour of the Pike or against it—but who was decidedly against mortgaging the Corporate estate in furtherance of that scheme. He feared that the Corporation were going on at a ruinous rate throwing away their money, and that they would yet suffer for it. A great deal had been said about throwing some members of the Council out at the next election. Now he was always opposed to having paid servants, but really if they were to have an election he should like to see Mr. Bally (the phrenologist) engaged by the Corpora tion to examine the heads of their incoming members. (Hear, hear, and laughter. t He was against a borough rate in toto, and the late Mr. Aspinall was always against it. For these reasons he would therefore move that that part of the report which was embraced in Mr. Lawrence's motion be not adopted. Mr. Alderman PROCTOR said he had an amendment to propose, which would include that of Mr. Thompson, and, perhaps, it might be as well if he were now to do so. To shew that he was desirous of avoiding all personal alter cation in the matter, he would at once state that he would not enter into the question of the Rivington Pike at all. He would, however, say that the burgesses of Liverpool were the owners of the corporate estate ; and he begged to say that it was against all the principles of justice that any man should be taxed, or that his property should be taxed, without first consulting hinrelf. He then moved an amendment to the effect, that in order to give the burgesses an opportunity of expressing their opinion on this matter, that the further discussion of the report be adjourned for a month. Mr. WALTELEW seconded the amendment. Mr. HARBORD (who was labouring under severe indis position) rose to support the amendment. He did so on a variety of grounds. There were many grounds of objec tion to the course now proposed by the Special Committee. His chief objection, however, was, that after having got the best of legal opinion before them they were about to act in direct opposition to that opinion —an opinion which they affected to regard very much, Before saying more he begged to have the opinion of Messrs. Rolt and Hen derson read, and probably the Town-Clerk would state the viva voce case which had been submitted to these counsel. The TOWN-CLERK said that he saw Mr. Henderson first, and he stated to him that the contractors were now delivering the pipes ; that they had received the certificates of the engineer, and that the parties were coming for pay ment. He (the Town-Clerk) then submitted the former opinion of counsel, and wished to know if the cor porate estate as distinguished from the borough fund might not be used for the purpose of paying the demands. He then read the opinion, which stated that the corpor at estate might be pledged as a collateral security for th interest of the money only. Mr. HARBORD continued to observe, that it would be seen that the proposition to mortgage the corporate estate for £200,000 was at variance with the declared opinion of counsel, who decidedly recommended that the corporate estate should be given as a collateral security for the interest only of the £200,000. The TowN CLERK.—So the memorial says. Mr. HARBORD.—Then the memorial as different from the motion on the notice-paper. Mr. HORNBY.--The one is the same as the other, Mr. FREME.—It is very wrong that Mr. Harbord should be interrupted in that way. Mr. HoltNay.—This is a question of law, and it must be set right. The MAYOR.—It is a question of law, and when that is settled, and when Mr. Harbord resumes his speech he shall not be interrupted. Mr. HARBORD contended that the recommendation was at variance with the opinion of the gentlemen who had been consulted on the subject—to say nothing of the unconstitutional nature of the proceeding. Mr. Lawrence had informed them that £200,000 were due, or were about to be due. He (Mr. H.) begged to say that there was nothing before the Council by which they were made aware that such was the case—that such a sum was due, or anything like it. He very much doubted whether the contracts were validly executed, and whether these sums could be forced from them. A short time since the Town Clerk told them that they could not get money from any source to meet these liabilities, and yet he now told the men whom he supposed to be in power that they could raise the sum of £200,000 on the credit of the corporate estate. Mr. Lawrence told them that it would be a hardship to subject the contractors to the trouble of a legal decision before they got their money, but he still felt convinced that this was the proper course, and the course which would have been taken had not the contractors been hoodwinked in this matter. (Here.) He should like to have it stated by the Town Clerk whether the usual month's notice—the same as when the sale of any land is made by the Corporation, would apply in this case, and if that notice would have to be fixed on the Town-hall ? The TOWN CLERlC.—Certainly, if this is adopted. Mr. HARBORD continued : Mr. Lawrence had dwelt a great deal upon the security of the bondholders. He (Mr. H.) supposed that he had overcome the scruples of his friend Mr. J. B. Lloyd, on this subject, and that Mr. Lloyd was now of opinion that the Corporation-estate might be safely.pleclged without at all injuring the secu rity of the bondholders. Here Mr. Harbord appeared much exhausted, and having stated that he was unable, through indisposition, to speak further, he resumed his seat. The TOWN-CLERK explained that he had advised the Water Committee and the Council that they could not touch the Borough Fund, for the purposes of the Water Act ; but he had never said that the Corporation-estate might not be pledged for that purpose. Mr. HORNBY confessed that he had listened with great curiosity to the remarks made by Mr. Harbord, for he was at a loss to know what objection he could have to the proposal now brought before the Council. The Special Committee had been charged with indecent haste in bring ing this matter before the Council; and it had been said that they had shewn an utter disregard of the opinions of the people of Liverpool ; and they were about to engage the Council in contracts which would very much compro mise the people, in the event of the Rivington scheme being abandoned. No charge could be more unfounded, and they must have been made in utter ignorance, both of the report and the resolutions there before them. In point of fact the Committee had entered into no new en gagement, although the vote of the Council authorized their doing so. They had been induced to adopt this course, not only in deference to the voice of public opinion, but they thought it wise not to engage the Council in any new liabilities till they had the means of meeting those which the Council were now legally bound to provide for. Some of these payments were actually due, and it was only in consequence of the forbearance of the parties—a for bearance granted on the assurance of the committee, that every means would be taken by the committee to pay their just debts—that the council was not even now ex posed to the disgrace and ignominy of being sued in a court of justice for the payment of money, against which they could not set up even a shadow of a plea. All they asked for was, that the Council would give them leave to ask the Lords of the Treasury for powers to meet their present engagements; not one penny of which would be taken to enter into new engagements ; not one penny of which would be taken to further the Rivington Pike scheme, except so far as their present contracts ; and un less this was done it would be a serious losi to the corpo .ration. Unless this was done they would be brought into ' discredit in every part of the country. It was no later than Saturday last that one of the parties to whom money was due came before the committee, and stated that he was willing to wait till the result of this Council was known ; but in the event of that result not being favour able, he would feel bound to proceed against the corpora tion. He really could not believe that the members of the Council and the town of Liverpool could be guilty of placing the Corporation in so unworthy a position. For these reasons he hoped the Council would adopt the report. After a few words of explanation with regard to the signing of the contracts in the month of October, and on the first of last November, Mr. Hornby concluded. Mr. J. B. LLOYD supported the adoption of the report as the only means of meeting their difficulties and putting an end to the strife on this question. Alderman HORSFALL thought that some little conside ration was due to the members of the special committee, whom the council had supported. He wasreluctantly named as a member of that committee. He did not seek for the task, but still he felt that a duty was imposed upon him by the council, and he undertook it. What they asked them to do was not to pay one farthing which they had con tracted but to pay that which they themselves had con tracted—contracts unanimously agreed to by the council. Mr. Harbord was present when contracts to the amount of £170,000 were confirmed, and the only comment made by any member of the council was made by Mr. Higgins, then a member of the council, who said that the contracts were exceedingly low. He appealed to them as gentle men, as merchants, as tradesmen, and as honest men, to sanction the report before them, and pay their debts, which could be forced from them in any court in the kingdom. They might depend upon it if they did not pay this money the very chairs upon which they were sitting might be taken from them, even in the council chamber. Mr. AIKIN called attention to the fact, that an ad journment of one week had already been negatived, and consequently he did not now expect that the Council would sanction an adjournment for a month. He con tended they would gain nothing by refusing to approve of the report, for eventually they would be obliged to pay the men the money, and that with all the additional ex penses attendant upon its recovery ; besides, in taking such a course they would lose that which they never could redeem—the character of the Council of Liverpool. If this repudiation course was followed, the Council would be stamped with disgrace. He begged and entreated them not to delay the payment of this money one moment. The Chairman of the Water Committee repeatedly stated in his place in the Couucil, that no man in his senses would lend money on this water account. Now when this had been the case, and when every means were taken to injure the credit of the Council, how could they be sur prised that such a course as the present was necessary to remedy the injury which had been sustained through the statements of the Chairman of the Water Committee. He trusted, as they knew that they could not raise the neces sary money by any other means, that they would allow them to take the only course which would enable them to meet their engagements as men of honour should do. Mr. FISHER briefly supported the adoption of the re port. Mr. Berereerr could not allow the observations of Mr. Aikin to pass unnoticed. Mr. Harbord, as chairman of the water committee, was the first member of that Council to take the true view of the affairs of the water commit tee. He took the view which neither Mr. Aikin nor any member of the Council took of the water acceunt, when he proclaimed in this Council that that account could do no more than meet the current expenses of the works. They were now asked for £200,000. For what ? To carry out the beginning of the Rivington Pike scheme. He, however, would ask where the next and the next £200,000 was to come from. Would any man be so mad, if this proposal were acceded to, as to tell them that ever the water account could increase so as to pay an addi tional £lO,OOO a year—the net interest on £200.000. Yet they had been told that this act was to be self-sustaining. On the 15th of last August Mr. Lace told them that they would save £15,000 by the stoppage of the present en gines ; yet now they were told that it was not the inten tion of the committee to stop tle whole of the engines, and consequently this estimated saving would be propor tionably decreased, so that if, in addition to their expenses for Rivington, they had to maintain their present engines, their deficiency of income would be materially increased. (Hear, hear.) It was most flattering to Mr. Harboard that he foresaw that which had since occurred, namely, that the water rental was stretched to its utmost limit, and he alone had the manliness to bring it before the Council. Here was a report, which was unanimously carried. Mr. Cooper.—Who carried it ? Mr. HARBORD.—The Council. Mr. COOPER. — Not at all ; I never carried it. (A laugh.) Mr. BENNETT, in conclusion, observed that he would vote for the amendment, in the hope that some more speedy means would be adopted for the payment of this money. Rather than pledge the corporate.estate,—rather than do that which Mr. Lawrence was so shocked at when the St. George's Hall business was before them, he would appeal to the rate-payers, who he had no doubt would on all occasions do that which was fair and honest. He would hiinself consent to pay a pro rata tax for the pur pose of paying their just demands, rather than one penny of the corporate estate should be touched. Mr. PARKER, although not in Liverpool, expected from what he had read of the recent public meeting that they wonld have a special council, and therefore he had come to be present to record his vote. He found that Mr. Holme and the ex-members of the Water Committee were present on that occasion, and after the defeat he had there experienced he certainly thought he would have found him retracting his errors. The MAYOR begged to remind Mr. Parker that they were•not discussing the proceedings of any public meeting. Mr. FREME.—Really, Mr. Mayor, we must have a fair latitude for discussion. Mr. PARKER was aware that they were not discussing— The MAYOR.—But I will not allow Mr. Frame to say that Ido not give a fair latitude for discussion. I will not allow that public meeting nor the Rivington Pike project to be discussed upon this occasion. Mr. FREME here made some observations which were inaudible. Mr. PARKER observed that as Mr. Holme had appealed to the opinion of the public, and as that appeal had been decided against him, he (Mr. P.) really expected to have seen him in the Council that day bowing to that opinion Sept. , for which he had always professed to B 3 ' 1 " much respect. (Hear, hear.) The proPn' a i, gage the corporate estate was most certanye proposition to hear from the Chairman of t - s „ , Committee. He remembered when that gentienhlsfi have been horror-struck at the bare idea of s , lc , s iP: sition. They had always been told that th's financial question, and that the work was L l l 4 ° e ff, farthing extra to the ratepayers ; but he that it was a financial question, and one in "fit . were all deeply engaged. He thought that the nt , tlemen were something like the free trade g e they were in a dilemma, which they did not 1; 0 ° 1 ; get out of. That dilemma they h a d got into by A as the free traders had also d one , that they, re o li f t', the people, whilst they only rep r esented then'thof clique. He would, for these reasons, suPP°rt ment. ti Mr. S. HoLmE said th a t h e wou ld not hai r the Council but for what had fallen from •la There were one or two common sense cl ues t t i l ces nected with this subject, which he wonldl, far which was—were they to have one pria t c'E„ - viduels, and another for public bodies ? A w 4 .( l / 7 0 ' dividual, and the partner of a firm contraeteu" o ,l ll , l was liable for it ; or if his partner did the sa t° clo, still liable by both law and equity, for partner, although he might not approve of it', t heC o just the position of the Spe c i a l C omm ittee O ki cil. Mr. G. H. Lawrence h a d t o ld them try,,te;,', security for the bondholders was th e borough that opinion he differed, for the real solid see u i;to . , i f bondholders was to be found in the vast amokfiej estate, the value of which w as ca l cu lated at s ar whilst their proper debt was but little mere the t he million. There was not such a security ' l° . TO Let them search England through—take they 00 and even the Governme n t f un d s , an d be deft find a better or a safer investment than t he l i e to° A Estate of the borough of Li ver p oo l. (Hear.) o or Bennett now, and he told hi m so b e f or e, that b ort Mr. Parker in his opposition to this measur e )" was a party to these contr ac ts ; th a t he lent his thl l to the committee which made these contract s ' was was with them in the whole sc h eme , and th at manner in which he had recently behaved in r r bo o question : after his inconsistency on the subjec t ' he t H.) would not give a farthing for his opill,it p ' s e i them that if the Coun c il re p u di a t e d t h ese dean fee° l l . the gentlemen to go into a court of law for We - sl o r " he would blush for th e C ounc il, an d neve r .e ctlar e , be ambitious of a seat i n it s chamber. lire 1 r; pledging the Corporation est a t e ever y day ? so d yf not pledging it for St. George's-ball, the batVhe4 every improvement which was carried out? were told that their water rent would not ineeer e oror4 contrary to fact, for from the time the ola d was first established there had been a gradual :l % ill 64 increase, and pari passu with it there had beell, p tdp in their dock dues; and h e was g l a d t o sal' i f :e l 4 the past year there had been an increase ° sai° o ll in the town dues. (Hear, bear.) He, for one , 003,1 if these contracts were not made; if the nokel e gt, l 9 been served upon the landowners, and if the wo„ a had not progressed so far, he would stoP p 5 .0 Water Committee do as they pleased with t' o - u ri- d ,lt works, feeling conscious that the town would e ° ,a one man, and demand a better and an inetea s ' sci He would sacrifice everything for the sake of Po 9: 0 the honour of the Corporation, and that he vi°,' l os tler tain at all hazards. If Mr. Harbord and othe e 'coli{ had not sent forth to the world that the Wat e f te r 0 1 tee were bankrupt, and if there had been a in the Council plenty of money could have been f o fil i f could give the names of many gentlemen who vs to lend the committee th e i r money if t h ese tle s '," c ory ferences had been st o pp e d. H e b egge d to r-to°,o protest against one pen n y o f th e vo l untar y rate' ow he had himself contrib u t e d—b e i ng app li e d for t he of opposing the Cou nc il, (Q ues ti on , questi° ) T Y ,1•4 co uldt afford to do a dishonest on. h e r Mr. P ROCTOR : I rise to order. acti What 10 , 111 a" r Council has a desire t o d o a di s h ones t act i o n ry e name, name.) Mr. S. HOLME : I withdraw that word. dishonourable. dr The MAYOR : The word has been used sineek d ir mencernent of the debate. M r . H o l me on lyaPPP nerally, and he is not out of order in doing sa• Council r t0',710 Mr. S. HOLME said th a t if th e &a ° • ho' its engagement the Council would be guilty of a rt of ,e) action ; and the parties wou ld appea l to a co lii,-pait" whose decision wou ld b e certain. to compel t" - pi that which was merely h ones t. on ' O O 4 Alderman PROC TOR: L e t M r . H o l me poin' dis bo man in this Council who is desirous of doing a d action, and not deal thus in insinuations. j : tor s '. Mr. HARBORD : Th ose w h o are ca ll e d rennut a Pi t as honest men as e ith er M r . H o l me , or any et"' 0 bet of the Council. golia e r t The MAYOR : I did not un d ers t an d Ms. - apply the word to any individual, but in a g enera' o r He has used the w o r d i n th e same way that eleri 11, member has done. 0 1 • /10 Mr. HOLME.—I did no t app l y 0 the word to .01• h 1 man ; I only used it genera ll y . M r . H. then o ,d' by calling upon the Council to support the rep ot Committee. St Mr. KAYE observed th a t if any gentleman, bet' to their proceedin g s, came i n t o t h e C ounc il chain to heard their discussion, he would certainly . C 0 a ro` I o ! conclusion that ther e were two parties in 'I.O - rn; (Hear, hear.) He, f or one , however, only party, and that was the en ti re C ounc il , w hose au times it was to do their utmost for the public g o° io ioo q the subject of their debts there was but one. heat their debts must and sh ou ld b e pa id. (H ea r, ii n e L:, one in that room dre ame d o f repudiation. ( 13 `ti r r hear.) The thing w a s a b sur d. Whenever he ; 0 (1 1 4 a difficulty on which he had to form an opinieL to 01 cide, during the last thi r ty y ears , i t was hi s prsevif;ere: f i himself this question :—What would I do if It own particular case ? To this plain question ear, bifo got an answer which was satisfactory. a l bere hear.) He saw no difficulty in the matter; ii t e woo no reason why it could not be arranged. I' ot vote for the amendment because it would P ci 0.!3 matter before those who were the refill,' r „a ll ke i J ! interested parties, namely, the ratepayers. •","p o si`,',i, been over and over again told that it was note ra„lerl question ; but let them disguise it as much as the3r e 4,l it was and would become more and more a , 11 :t'on,1 1 question. He was sorry that the cry of rentin' -l o cl been raised against any party, or that a feeling I c l io ted got up to show that there was a desire to reP,a h i. payment of that which was a just and legal a e ," gala himself who wished to deal with this question Iv 'T O himself this question :—lf I have got m yself " t o providence into a difficulty, w h a t now i s my„ c fs ° et. ) d• pursue ? Why, to ar r a nge m y a ff a i rs; t o con n ' o e'' engagements, and pay my debts ; an d if I have u;,o o . f i , thing to prevent my d o i ng so, I mus t curtail "40'0 tore and meet my engagements under all circil a ; There was nothing i n M r . P roc t or ' s ame ndtae cif should be opposed by any mem b er o f th e C0i1a, c ,4, 11 as that amendment would b e ca l cu l a t e d t o bring!"psi question in a more tangible form before the ra te he would cordially support it. 0., 0 4 After a few words from M r . F reme , an d g r ,:re" . Lawrence, in reply, the Cou nc il di v id e d, w hen tl) For the amendment Against it ... ........ tY Majority ............. • fa i l , The following i s an ana l ys i s o f t h e vo tes lifslt," 4 o' amendment—Co unc ill ors E. L angs d a l e, J. Woodruffe, J. Thomson, W. Preston, T. si,;, t eil;oi , J. Briscoe, T. T ou l m i n , H . G . Harbord, •1,-I'sred: Kaye, J. Johnson, W. Bennett, J. Parker, R. M. Beckwith, E. C. Hindley ; Aldermen . 1 ; J. Proctor, J o h n B ent. A ga i nst i t Counciliary, Morris, T. Littledale, J. Aikin, H. HornbY , a. Gi ,o ; Thos. Rimmer, S. H o l me , J. T o bi n, J . B. L l l fit .( Lawrence, W. W a t son , R. B enn , W. M ann , "A 01 11 Aldermen A. Swainson, T. B. Horsfall, Thos. . 10 0 , Cooper, J. N. Wood, E. Molyneux, T. Ch i , 0 0.1 Mayor. d ifo l v The original motion was then carried withont.t v is; the great majority o f th e an ti-Pik e mem bers Council at the mo tbsment. ti ie ea / P on leaving the Council, said, be; r ever the Council might do in the matter. 11 . .% foriAlr' state that he would apply i n th e proper quay '" advice which the Town-cl er k re f use d to gi p, " . AP, Harbord then retired.) ti ,„.1 7 05 Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE was sorry that Mr. “'",,nt'oP retired, as be intended to move the adjournia`ooc Council upon the other resolutions. (Cries of to ri go on.") f lari Mr. HORNBY thought the observations of N r i, e 0" should not be passed ove r i n s il ence; but dropped. t he Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE then moved, serial'''',.,sll' ceding resolutions, which w ere carr i e d unanini°, - .l o eli' The Council adjourned at a quarter to two 0 isi rt to tej GOLD FROM CALIFORNIA. —We had Y*- - ,i c ,e f. pleasure of handling a lump of pure gold, in " n o o ie which it was nicked up at California, weighinio 5 00 # than half a pound avoirdupois. It is of irregn'oeb, and is now in the possession of a highly resPe c e, CA, lf it. l in this town, for whom it was brought in t,,n`' t Pbr, The worth of this precious metal is nearly J; 3 "; br oO e d we believe, the largest lump that has yet been ec t to this town. The ' diggings" this season are elbti°o l , be much more productive than the last, as in a o „; the grealy increased number of persons at prcs-5e e ft a spot, the waters, which are now subsiding, r d ° 0 04 1 , 4 „ higher than usual, and it is thought will bring dp1 1 :„ the hills large quantities of this valuable " con).,pc)l o 4 MARRIED.—On the 22d inst., at St. Brides ug, 6411 1 GEORGE SUDLOW, son of the late Mr. Thos da of Milbank, West Derby, to Miss SARAH BO P] . of the late Mr. John Eaves, of this town. LIVERPOoI a 4 9. A TUESDAY, SEPT. 25, 1-- v i PRINTED AND PUBLISHED 1 4 I ' l Oll EVERY TUESDAY MO' tree s, By JOSHUA FLETCHER LACE, of 53, GroVe re eh LEONARD ADDISON, of 14, Great Orford -5 ' o o,:d LITS ti ...11Kep At No. 4. ST. GEORGE'S CRESCENT. Orders for Advertisements received by Messrs• wet Co., Warwick-square; Barker and White4.leSe2 Deacon, Walbrook ; Reynell,Cbancery-lane 1 "„, r oppr o e Birchin-lane; Joseph Thomas, 1, Finch-lane, LA'„ den Hammond, 27, Lombard-street; Mitchell, so•td court, Fleet-street; Lewis and Lowe, 3, Castle:J*o o V hill; at the London Commercial Coffee-house; t er at the Jerusalem Coffee-house, Cornhill; up:;:icrO• house, Paternoster-row; North and South AW,1,111 house, Threadneedle-street; Parsons, 9, A is \io; .01 6 ' London; Johnston and Co., Eden Quay, Du t, :1r Exchange-street, and C. H. Lewis , arket_Thsures, r A ter; Haddock, and J. and W. Booth, 800 01"14 5 ' ton • Clarke, Pilot-office, Preston; and Wrif o oo s, Herald-office , Birmingham ; Harthill and Sa i # s 4 Prince's-s'quare, Buchanan-street, Glasgow. BIRKENHEAD: TODHUNTER, Chester-stree ts o6 o PINKNEY, Argyle-street; OSBORNE, Cheater - GRIFFITH, Hamilton -street. ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION . 0 0' IN ADTANCE• a. • •• 20a. I ON CREDIT of Ilito ßE.ll 11 Managez by thi e "DITer o 4.bt on The tl4 g . tlishe tl ci ae ure , ON TRURS ] ttitik "•• • . 0 ,, L., Atoi„ " Sliss Luco T HE ENS. I,*ill be e Ni•tht given Of ti IC i ees PAY, p Admi M s e4tih e GoOr . ' s 11 1 1 ( 1:11e eat Eight of' 4- office i s k '°le L, ace [NS ttalltiptrheespe ntf Lady i , 1 FeliX de HE Character NL'44:" A II N S C D Y A •r,,tb N Es _ SPE6q'Yi On FE Pe" .°4ll ance 111UCF 4.1 4) TH ktt to sOlDerl at I 4,.1 4 • eV en Pre( tx .n q, Gallery, Gel ; Side B o tZ.tari): `eats t'eats in en in arms to , 114,.elebrate( xPg ad thE ilp 6 0 :2N b C E 1L '~2etra, the H duri tl l l I are now 111 4 VOCA A ND ENI EVERI ZQ e ,1 0 .1:8 : 1 1, 14,1" V. .. 1 4. m o Y , ino Llsz Hj o g: RIT t E t o b 'Pro&r I t'hto oPene qtersrat Ei gh , le.; 1 3 , 04: CHOR eo larnen A c: . q/18 PR 8, REIS Cab e iaawnd. Roed Ca i ,. Ad actor actor .. 61 4 / ' next , the , 1 11 , 1r em a .nd vot,4 the ioi j l(l 4} , ar 14:..r e f; t he titl Tem p , , tl l ,sl 1 2th With a °t4,araes ai lAN IV: k vARE 4 ep S ISSI tA e PP] kl t a i t i r ll79 , k ow i c3Deri att '2PEN Seven, tp "'Ll x.„ t o. NE; t ‘ js k i l , , at 1 4, e 'Y know View of V i e si ! a lert of ,4 1 11 Tl e gIv i e; ai li „,lssion •,,, Pie Testir, k he LOA '111 )4 'ATI oN 0. o D hh .S . rs D usk. ': 4 1 4 [By NI oN b The] T 11134 5111olitt o f tt(i 11Phe Or l i , I . l ' k e. b k, 1 441 A `%l 4 il 4 t t . cZe ; and or ece of if t inkLe c k o n by k• Iv t 4 1 4 .1'11 ` , 1( ' 1, Y ,T,H eg • 11441\1' ti os TR] , 1 1't IRS t are ro ktk