The Sun. — London, England, 1857-05-23 00:00:00

found not practicable to introduce it. The object bad beeo obtained in another way, viz., by opening the cartridge with the band on its use by the Enfield rifle. LUNATIC PAUPERS (SCOTLAND.) Mr. E. ELLICE asked the Secretary for the Home Department, with reference to the report of the Com missioners appointed to inquire into the state of lunatics in Scotland, whether it was the intention of Govern ment to take immediate steps for securing to lunatic paupers in Scotland proper maintenance and protection. THE IRISH CONSTABULARY. Colonel FRENCH asked the Secretary to the Trea sury if the report was correct that the revenue police in Ireland were to be dismissed, the men to be transferred to the constabulary, and a small gratuity to be given to the officers now serving ? Mr. WILSON said it was not the intention of the Government to abandon at present the plan now acted upon in Ireland with reference to the police. INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BILL. Lord GODERICH asked Mr. Adderley whether the amendments introduced by him in the Industrial Schools Bill provided for the omission of all clauses authorising any charge upon the poor rate Mr. ADDERLEY said that all such clauses were omitted from the bill. CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION. Mr. MACARTNEY asked the Chancellor of the Ex chequer whether there was any objection to lay on the table the report of the Civil Service Commission on Monday next, prior to the appendix being printed ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the report was ready, but not the appendix. He in tended to present them both together. SLAVE TRADE. Mr. P. O'BRIEN asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies, whether the magistrate who, according to the report of Mr. Fitzpatrick to the Lieutenant-Gover nor of the Gold Coast (dated Cape Castle, in the year 1853), refused to give information respecting the slave trade to Commander Philips, of her Majesty's ship Polyphemus, unless he was guaranteed some reward, still holds the commission of the peace at the Gold Coast ; and, whether the two other magistrates stated in the same report to have been holders of slaves and pawns, still hold the commission of the peace for the Gold Coast. Mr. LABOUCEIERE said that neither of the three magistrates referred to were retained in the commission of the peace. (Hear, hear.) ELECTION COMMITTEES. Sir G. Grey, Sir C. Wood, .llr. Labouchere, Sir B. Bothell, and Mr. V. Smith, were excused from serving on election committees so long as they held office. THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.— WHITSUNDAY HOLIDAYS, In reply to Mr. WeLroLg, Lord PALMERSTON said he intended to move the adjournment of the house next week for her Majesty's birthday and the Derby-day, and on this day week to adjourn till Thursday, the 4th of June, for the Whitsun tiue holidays. TORTURE IN INDIA.—EXTRAORDINARY SCENE. On the motion for the adjournment of the house till Monday, Lord CLAUD HAMILTON asked the President of the Board of Control if he would state to the house what steps had been taken by the Government to put an end to the practice of torture in the Presidency of Madras, since the report of the Com mission that had proved its prevalence in that Presidency ; and, whether similar investigations had been instituted in Bombay and Bengal ; and, if so, whether it was intended to communicate the result of such inquiries to the house? The nobly lord addressed the house at considerable length on the subject-matter contained in the report alluded to, when he wai interruptdd by Mr. Stanley, who, when asking a question at an early part of the evening, attempted to travel out of the ordinary rule, and was called to order. The Speaker was appealed to, and said that the case of the hon. member was different : the noble lord was speaking on the motion of the adjournment of the house, and was in order. Mr. Stanley however rose again and attempted to address the house, wben he was met with loud cries of "Order." The Speaker again informed the honour able member that the noble lord was in order, but no sooner had the Speaker sat down than the hon. member rose again and was met with deafening cries of " Order, and chair." The SPEAKER then rose and obtained silence, when be called on Lord C. Hamilton to proceed with his address. Mr. STANLEY, however, again rose, and was again et with the same cu ies as before. The SPEAKER had again to interfere, and called on the noble lord to proceed, which was received with eheers. Lord C. HAMILTON then proceeded with his address to the house, and in doing so, said he doubted through the long tenure of office he hoped the Speaker would enjoy that he would be again treated in the manner he had been that night by the hon. member. After some further remarks the noble lord concluded his address. Mr. V. SMITH said, that it was the desire of him self and Lord Harris, in Indi,s, to put an end to torture in India as soon as possible, and he should be ready to produce any papers respecting the subject. W ESTMINSTER-BIUDGE. Mr. HENLEY asked the First Commie-loner of Works as to the state of Westminster-bridge, and whether the Government had come to any determination to proceed the works commenced for a new bridge ? air B. HALL, in answering the question, Paid that the bridge was now in the same state of security it was when he answered a similar question last year. Tae Government, in consequence of the pro posed erection of new offices had thought it desirable in the event of new structures being erected to defer the continuance of the bridge. After a decision on the plans, and before any fut tber expenditure took place, he intended to ask the decision of the house whether the present cite should be r-tained or altered. THE INTE tomprioN. Mr. STANLEY rose and apologised to the Speaker for his interruption of the noble lord's address. It was not done with a view of disputing the Speaker's autho rity, but to put a question of order to the chair. ALLOWANCE TO THE PRINCESS ROYAL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having moved that the house should go into oommittee to take into consideration the Royal message on this subject. Mr. ROEBUCK--Sir, lam reluctant to interpose at the present moment, but I believe thatthe opinions I am about to express are those which are held by a large body of my countrymen, and for that reason I believe that they will be attended to by this house. Ido not think that anything I can offer will carry any weight with it, but as my opinion will be backed out of doors I have no doubt the house will give me its attention fora few moments. Sir, I feel that I have on the present occasion a divided duty. I have aduty to perform to the Sovereign and a duty to the people. The Sovereign of these realms has so won the affections of her people that in her case they sink the monarch in the woman, and the respect and deference which we owe to the Sove reign are, if 1 may so say, swallowed up in the affection for the woman. In all the relations of life—as daughter, wife, and mother—her Majesty has set an example to her people which, socially, is of immense importance, and on that ac count I am quite sure it will be our anxious desire, as it will be our very greatest pleasure, to meet her wishes. As this is the first of her Majesty's children wholeaves her pa rents' home, and as it is therefore the first occasion on which her Majesty hasconae to this house to ask for aid and assistance in setting forth that child in the world, we must all feel an intense desire to meet the wishes of the Sovereign. But, sir, while doing this, we must not forget that we have another duty to perform, and that, although we are the subjects of the Queen, we are also the representatives of the people. (Hear.) We must not forgot that while we en deavour—as I am sure we shall all endeavour—to meet her wishes, we have also to consider the interests of the people and, therefore, that while we are generous we must endea vour also to be just—generous to the Sovereign, but just to the people. (Hear.) But, sir, what I wish to state is with respect to the mode in which we should endea vour to meet the wishes of the Sovereign. We have been told in the gracious message which her Majesty has sent that she has selected a husband for her eldest daughter; and she calls upon the house to aid and assist her, and so to provide for that daughter as to do honour to the people of England, whose daughter she is, and at the same time to Provide for the comfort of her child. It must be the wish of the house to meet that sentiment as it deserves, but it is due to the people of this country to recollect that when we are providing for the wants—and that is a strong term—of the child of the Sovereign we ought not to press too heavily linen the people we represent. (Hear.) We must recollect that the Princess Royal is the first of a large family--(a laugh) —and that we are now considering a step which will be brought t o b e considered a precedent, and what we do for other Princes P r i ncess Royal we shall be expected to do for the Princes and Princesses. Now, Sir, we must also re collect that the Royal lady who is about now to be married to the Prince of Prussia has chosen for her husband no humble, no obscure individual, no private person, but the heir to a great name and a great lineage. She is shoat to be married to on e w h o in the ordinary conne of life will become one of the great Sovereigns of Europe. (Hear.) She is therefore allying herself tgreat Power, and we do not intend, I suppose, BO t o provide for her as ' that she shall be considered a Royal Queen who is about to be married, but to provide for her happiness as. the wife of the Royal Prince of Prussia. But while we so endeavour to provide for her happiness, we have to consider what are the best means of so doing; and the only reason that in duces me to rise and address the house is in consequence of what occurred on a previous and similar °sea . sion. On the marriage of the Princess R.oyal of England, the daught er o f George 111., the House of Comm ons of England determined to apportion for her dowry a round sum of 80,0001. They determined by this means at once and for ever to discharge this obligation. I know Sir, that circumstances at that time allowed the then Sovereign to apply to Ireland ; I know that an applica tion was made to the Parliament of Ireland, and that they took a different course, and voted to the Princess Royal an annuity of 5,000/. a-year, thus imposing the duty upon the peopl e o f I reland of paying an annuity of 5 , 0001 . , however long she might live. In order to express the feel ing which I believe is held by a great body of my fellow countrymen, I beg to state to the noble lord that the course which the, Parliament of England then took meets, as I believe, the feelings of the people of England at the pre sent moment. What is desired is, that we should gene rously, anti as befits the people of England, provide for the daughter of England— (cheers)--but that we should make that provision at once by payment of a suitable lil .SHE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, 19_,A Y €23, 1857 dowry for the wife of a Prince of Prussia. It is hoped that there will be no attempt to follow the example of the Parliament ?f Ireland and to fix the people of England with the payment of an annuity. (Hear.) I have there fore ventured humbly and inefficiently to propose to the Parliament of England the view I have just stated. Let it be a generous sum, but let it not be hampered by an annuity, and let us at once and for ever discharge our ob ligations. (Hear.) Sir, we forget that this Royal lady is about to be allied to one of the great Powers of Europe. With that Power—may God avert it !—we may be at war. (Hear.) In my own time that has been an event within men's expectations. (Hear.) I cannot forget how Eng land has recently been treated by Prussia, and, although I have every feeling of respect and deference to my Sove reign, and every desire to meet her wishes and to set her daughter forth in happiness, I cannot forget bow my country has been treated by that house to which the Prin cess Royal is about ally herself. (Cheers.) Sir, this being the case, and receiving this as a warning, I say to the house of Commons, do not hamper this country or your selves by an annuity paid every year. Let her have every thing that her necessities and her happiness require ; let it be done generously, but let it be done once and for ever. (Cheers.) Lord PALMERSTON—I entreat the house not to enter by anticipation into a discussion upon a proposition which my right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer is prepared to submit to the consideration of the house. I make every allowance for the earnestness of the opinions of the hon. and learned gentleman, but I submit to the house that it is neither consistent with the respect that is due to the Crown nor to the efficiency of our proceedings to discuss a matter which is not yet laid before the house. (Hear.) My right hen. friend will state the proposal we intend to make and the reasons upon which it is founded, and when the house knows what we propose it will then be the fit time to discuss the subject. (Hear, hear.) The house then went into committee, Mr. FITZROY in the chair. The address in answer to the Qaeen'a message having been read by the Clerk at the table. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose and said—ln rising to request the house to redeem the pledge whioh it has already given in its address to her Majesty to take into consideration her gracious message respecting the marriage of the Princess Royal, I trust that I need not say one word to them to entreat them not to suffer their judgment in any way to be anticipated by the remarks which they have just heard from the hon. and learned gentleman, but to enter into the examination of the question with unbiassed minds, and to form their opi nion upon the facts and arguments which it will be my duty to submit to them. Before I proceed to state the pro position which I shall presently place in the chairman's hands I beg the committee to allow me to explain the na ture of the arrangement by which the Sovereign and the Royal Family are provided for, in respect to ther mainte nance and their pecuniary means under our constitutional laws and regulations. My hon. friend the member for Sheffield said that this was an occasion on which we must be just before we are generous. Now, in the proposition which I have to submit to the house I shall not appeal merely to their generosity. What I have to put before them will address itself to their sense of justice. It is well known to the committee that in former days the Crown of this country possessed large hereditary estates, and that the entire expenses of the Sovereign and his family were defrayed out of those revenues, which were regarded as the inherent property of the Crown. By a suc cession of constitutional compacts those hereditary revenues have been surrendered to Parliament, which at the same time engaged to make an adequate provision for the dignity and the honour of the Crown, and for the maintenance of the Royal Family. During the last century the surrender of those revenues was pirtial, and since the reign of Wil liam IV. that surrender has been entire. It has been deemed a matter of policy in this country wholly to strip and denude the Sovereign of all hereditary property, and to render him during his life entirely dependent upon the bounty of Parliament. We see that in foreign States pos sessing free institutions this constitutional jealousy has not I been observed. It is well known that after the expulsion of Charles X. from his throne, and the succession of Louis Philippe, the latter was not called upon to surrender the large hereditary possessions of the House of Orleans, but retained them as King of France, and, indeed, retained them for some time after he had ceased to be the Sovereign of that country. A similar arrangement exists in the kingdom with which the Princess Royal is about to con tract a matrimonial alliance—l mean Prussia. Although the kingdom of Prussia possess constitutional forme, and is governed by a Parliament associated with the King,never theless the Royal family has a hereditary provision which renders it independent of the votes of the Prussian Parliament. In England a different course has been fol lowed, dictated by a constitutional jealousy of the over` weaning power of the Crown. The Crown has been de prived of its hereditary revenues. But in consequence of that deprivation there arises on the part of Parliament a corresponding elongation to make a sufficient provision for the maintenance and the dignity of the Crown. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, on occasions of this kind, when it is the duty of the Executive Government to appeal to this house to make provision for those wants of the Crown which have not been included in the settlement of the Civil List, an obligation arises not merely of generosity and bounty on the part of this house, but one of strict justice, owing to the uirangesnent which has been made with respect to the hereditary revenues of the Crown. With the view of show ing the nature of the position of her present Majesty in re gard to her income and expenditure, I will state the azrange rn en ts of the present Civil List, and then contrast them with the Civil List of King George 111., with which it appears to me most naturally to come into comparison ; and for this reason—that her Majesty has a numerous family growing up and to be provided for. The same was the case with King George 111., but it was not the case with any of the Sovereigns intermediate between King George 111. and her present Majesty. Now, the committee ought to be informed that the comparison of the Civil List of King George 111. with that of her present Majesty is not a perfectly simple question, inasmuch as the Civil List of ding George 111. was founded on principles different from those on which the Civil List of the present reign was constructed. Agree ably to the arrangement by which not only the personal expenses of the Sovereign, but also various branches of civil government were charged upon the hereditary revenues of the Crown, the Civil List of King George 111. included several important heads of expense not comprised in the present Civil List—such expenses, for instance, as the salaries of the judges and those of the diplomatic agents abroad. Therefore, in order to make the comparison fair, it is necessary to extract those items only of the Civil List of King George 111. which correspond with the Civil List of the present reign. I have made that extract, and it is as follows : CIVIL LIST OF GEORGE 111. Per annum. Privy purse £60,000 Household bills Ditto salaries Ditto other salaries 16,905 Royal bounty, &e. Total 447,436 Thus, 447,4361. per annum was nearly the corresponding •barge for the Civil List of King George 111., as contrasted with that of the present reign. With the permission of the house I will make a short quotation from the Commenta ries of Sir W. Blackstone—(laughter) —in which he ex presses his opinion upon the Civil List of King Geo. 111. And the committee will see on this comparisonjwhether the Civil List of her Majesty may or may not be deemed mode rate. This passage was written near the beginning of the reign of King Geo. 111., and it conveys the opinion of a very competent authority on that arrangement. Sir Wm. Blackstone, in vol. 1, page 335, says :-- And though complaints have sometimes been made of the increase of the Civil List, yet, if we consider the sums that have been formerly granted, the limited extent under which it is now established, the revenues and prerogatives given up in lien of it by the Crown, the numerous branches of the present royal family, and above all the diminution of the value of money compared with what it was worth in the last century, we must acknowledge these complaints to be void of any rational foundation, and that it is impos sible to support that dignity which a King of Great Britain should maintain with an income in any degree less than what is now established by Parliament." This was the judgment of one who may be taken as a com petent witness on the moderateness of the Civil List of King Geo. 111. Let me now compare with that Civil List the items of her present Majesty's Civil List. The Civil List of the Queen's is as follows : Ist class, Privy purse £60,000 2d „ Salaries. 131,260 3d „ Expenses 4th „ Royal bounty, dm 13,200 , sth „ Pensions - 6th „ Unappropriated 8,040 Total The present salaries are 10,0001. more than the allowance in the reign of George 111. Then the Committee must bear in mind this fact, that at that time there was an extensive system of perquisites, gratuities, and fees paid to members of the Royal household, and even I believe to the servants of that household. Therefore, taking into consideration that system, the allowance for salaries was then greater than it is now. The total amount of the pre sent Civil List is 385,0001. as compared with 447,000 1 ., the amount of the Civil List of George 111. With the permis sion of the committee I will next call their attention to certain other facts which aro material to the question be fore us. In the first place King George 111. aid not sur render the whole of his hereditary revenues. Therefore, in addition to the allowance made for the Civil List he had certain hereditary revenues, out of which a portion of his expenses were defrayed. It appears that not less a sum than 12 ,705,461/. was placed at th e di s p osa l o f th e Crown from the hereditary revenues during the reign of Geo. 111. Of this sum 2 600 0001. was applied to the public service, and 3,372,834 ' 1. was appropriated in payment of prize. I money durin g th e war, leaving a sum of not less than 6,732,927/. applicable to Civil List expenses. The commit tee will therefore observe that in addition to the Civil List provided by Parliament and l pay able from Parliamen- tarp of o G ra r bo ge ups i ii . h m e i r li e o c u e v s a e n d d in a th h e al c f ou t r h s e e his f u r n e d i s gn to s t in nt whole of which has been surrendered by her present, the and no portion of which is receivable by her family. The Royal hereditary revenue of Geo, 111. received during the minority of the Prince of Wal es th e reve n ues of the Duchy of Cornwall. A different course has been pursued during the reign of her Majesty ; the whole, of the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall have bsen set apart f or hi s Royal ',Highness the Prince of Wales, and a portion of them has been applied to the expanses of his education and mainte nance, but the whole of the surplus has been vested for his future benefit. That source of revenue, therefore, which was enjoyed by King Geo. 111. has not accrued in any re spect to our present Queen. But, in addition to this source of revenue which King Geo. 111. possessed, but which her Majesty does not possess, there was at the same time carried on by the King and the Royal family a system of incurring debts which were discharged by this house, but from which system the reign of her Majesty has been alto gether exempt. (Cheers.) The Civil List at that period was treated as a very elastic fund, considerable debts were incurred in various branches from year to year, and at cer tain periods the executive Government came down to Par- , liement and proposed votes in Committee of Supply to pay off the debts of the Civil List. Those debts, therefore, in cluded the expenses of the evil Government as well as the personal expenses of the Sovereign. There might be, for Instance, some extraordinary payments for diplomatic pur poses or other similar objects, and these would be voted in a general sum, together with the payments far the personal expenses of the Sovereign. It is therefore impossible on merely looking at the votes for the excesses of the Civil List at that period to define, without examination, what por tion of them were for the personal debts of the Sovereign ; but a considerable portion of them were undoubtedly for 'that object. I will trouble the Committee with merely a short statement of the amount of debts on the Civil List paid during the reign of George 111. I think they will he surprised ] at the 'large amounts that were thus defrayed, and the frequent appeals which must have been made to the liberality of Parliament for what was in fact an in crease to a great extent of the allowance of the Sovereign fixed by the Civil List. In 1769 there was a sum of 513,5001. voted ; in 1777, 618,300/. ; in 1784, 60,000/. ; in 1786, 210,0001. ; in 1802, 990,0001. ; in 1804, 591,0001. ; in 1805, 104,0001; in 1814, 118,0001. i n 1816, 185,00/. ; making altogether for votes granted by this house for ex cesses in the Civil List in the reign of George 111. not loss than 3,297,0001. But I do not meaji tosay that the wholeor even half that sum was for the maintenance of the royal family, but a considerable portion of it was, in fact an aug mentation of the expenses of the Sovereign as fixed by the Civil List. In addition to the sums which I have stated, George 111. received certain indirect benefits from the cessa tion of charges for annuities to members of the Royal family which had been fixed upon the Civil List. In addition to the allowance made to King George 111. on his accession, the following allowances were a dd e d t o th e Ci v il Li s t— v iz., the Princess Dowager of Wales, 50,0001. a-year ; the Duko of Cumberland, 15,0001. a-year ; and the Princess Amelia 12,0001. a-year ; making altogether 77,0001. a-year. On the cessation of these annuities from natural causes, the Civil List was, in fact, relieved to that extent. There were also other charges of a similar nature for the younger branches of the Royal family which, by a similar cessation, benefited the privy purse of the King, or at all events the Civil List, to the extent of 36,0001. a-year. Therefore the result of what I have stated is that George 111. during his life re ceived from the unsurrendered branches of the hereditary revenues 6,732,6271., and from special grants 3,297,0001., making altogether 10,029,627/. A considerable portion, no doubt, of the hereditary revenues was for expenses of the civil government charged on the Civil List; but I am un able to state the precise portion. Nevertheless, another con siderable portion was in aid of those branches of the Civil List which weradestined for the maintenance and benefit of the Sovereign. The Civil List also benefited by the ces sation of annuities to the extent of 113,0001. a-year in ad dition to what I have already mentioned. Besides the greater magnitude of the Civil List, whieh I have already explained, there were other allowances which George 111. possessed, and by the non-possessson of which her present Majesty is placed in a less favourable position. The an nuity to Queen Charlotte the Queen Consort, was originally fixed at 58,000/. a-year, but at the commencement of the malady by which George 111. was affiieted it was increased by 10,000/., making altogether 68,0001. a-year, whereas the annuity of the present Consort, Prince Albert, is only 30,0001. a-year. Allowances were likewise made for the maintenance of the children of George 111. from an early age. No such allowance has hitherto been asked for on be half of her Majesty. There were allowances for the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York from an early period, and also for other members of the Royal family. At a later time ample provision was made by Parliament by succes sive arrangements for the maintenance and education of the Princess Charlotte by grants to the Prince Regent, whereas nothing has been asked for the education of the daughters of the Queen. In 1801 the Civil List debts for the support of the Princess Charlotte were 21,9671., and they were voted in 1802. On the 4th June, 1801, the Prince of Wales was allowed out of the Civil Liet 6,1001. a-year for the Princess Charlotte when she was three or four years old, and that was continued until her marriage with Prince Leopold. By the 145th of the 46th year of the reign of George 111. a fur ther sum of 7,0001. was allowed to the Princess Charlotte. In 1813 further annual sums varying from 1,4001. to 1,8001. were paid to the Princess out of the Civil List. In 1801 a sum of 28,6351. had been incurred on account of the younger branches of theßoyal family. These examples prove that at that time we were in the habit of making allow ances for th e maintenance and education of younger branches of the Royal' family even from an early age, but of such al lowances we have hitherto had no instance in her Majesty's reign. Her present Majesty has been subjected to large ex penses of a public nature, which could scar oely have entered into the consideration of Parliament when the Civil List was arranged, with regard to which, however, she has made no claim upon this house, although assistance for similar purposes was granted in former reigns. I allude particularly to the visit which her Majesty paid to the Emperor Louis Napoleon at Paris—a visit which was purely for public and State purposes, and not for her private pleasure. (Cries of " Oh !" and great laughter.) That visit was not merely for the personal enjoyment of her Majesty, but for the public good, as was well understood at the time, and it was ac cepted as such by the Emperor Napoleon. (Hear, hear.) I can hardly conceive that it is a novel idea to the house that the visit of our Sovereign to the Sovereign of a foreign country is not so much for that personal gratifi cation which a private individual enjoys in visits, but rather for a more general and political object. Similar visits were made by his Majesty King George IV., to his electoral dominions of Hanover, and to Scotland and Ireland; but, instead of the expense of those visits being de frayed exclusively from the Civil List, ho received in 1821 from the Admiralty droits a sum of 40,C001., and in 1822 a sum of 52,970/. There is also a large expenditure which in former reigns was defrayed out of the Civil List, or in some cases out of the civil contingencies fund. I allude to the expenses attending the visits of foreign sovereigns and foreign princes to this country. In former reigns, too, there were considerable charges on account of the erection of palaces for the sovereign, whereas her Majesty has out of her own purse paid for furniture and repairs at Bucking. ham Palace one amount of 12,8001., and another of 21,3001. It appears, too that while on the one hand her Majesty has voluntarily subjected herself to expense under those heads, the Civil List has, on the ether hand, been diminished by a payment of 6,1801. per annum for income tax in time of peace, and of 15,5001. per annum in time of war. (Cheers.) The Committee will thus see that while on the one hand the allowance to George 111. was clinch greater than the allowance to her Majesty, she on the other has undertaken various expenses which George 111. was not called on to defray. 'That being the case, I think I have shown the Committee good grounds for sowing to the conclusion that the provision which I shall ask them to make with regard to the Princess Royal is one which appeals not merely to their generosity, but also to their sense of justice. (Cheers.) Without dwelling on this subject, I would remind the house that her Majesty on no occasion since the commence ment of her reign made any appeal to this house for the payment of debts, that her household has been carried on with a strict regard to economy, that she has maintained her establishments within the income allowe I by Parlia ment, and that she has to the very letter fulfilled her duty as a constitutional Sovereign, which, in this respect con sists in observing with perfect strictness and integrity the contract made with her at the beginning of her reign as an ample provision for :her annual expenses. (Cheers.) In making comparisons I may seem to disparage former Sove reigns of this country, but I cannot refrain from calling the attention of the Committee to the example which her Majesty has set at all events to all future Sovereigns in the strictness and integrity with which she has discharged that obligation. (Hear.) The committee are aware that the Civil List arranged at the commencement of the present reign makes no provision for the younger branches of the Royal family, and that it makes no provision for such an event as that now contemplated—viz., the marriage of her Majesty's eldest daughter. It makes provision only for the duration of the Queen's life, which provision shall entirely cease when another Sovereign succeeds to the throne, and the hereditary revenues cf the Crown are resumed by him. Therefore, in the event of the house making any provision to endure for the life of the Princess Royal, it is neces sary that a special grant should be made in her behalf. (Hear.) As the lion, and learned member for Sheffield has adverted to prececents, I will take the liberty to call the attention of the committee to two precedents—(a laugh)— which bear on this case. The first precedent is that of the Princess Royal, daughter of George 11. (Great laughter.) I am at a loss to understand why gentlemen laugh. It may provoke the merriment of the house to call its attention to a precedent of this kind, bat if I do not perhaps I may be taunted with having kept back from the house information which It is desirable it should possess. (" Hear," and laughter.) lam not bound to give gentlemen information on matters of history—(more laughter)—but surely the ac cession of the House of Hanover is not an event so remote that my allusion to the second monarch of the line should provoke merriment, or that it should be a matter of sur prise when I refer to precedents in that reign which are not inapplicable to the present case. (Hear.) The Princess Royal, the daughter of George 11., formed in 1734 a mar riage with the Prince of Orange, which, though gentlemen seem entirely to have forgotten it—(laughter)—very much interested the nation at chat time, and was received with r i great joy and cougratulation. (Cheers and laughter.) The question, however, to which I wish to direct the attention of the committee is the provision made by Parliament on that occasion. An annuity out of the Civil List of 5,0001. per annum was granted for life, and an act of Parliament —viz., the ith of George ll.—was passed for that purpose. (Laughter.) In addition to the annuity so fixed she had a dowry of 80,000/., raised by the sale of certain lands in one of the West India islands, and that under the sanction of another act passed in the 6th of George 11. (Laughter.) The Princess Royal, the daughter of George 111., received a similar provision when she married the hereditary Prince of Wurtemberg in 1797. She received a dowry of 80,0001. and an annuity of 5,0001. from the Irish Parliament. On the consolidation of the two exchequers this annuity came to be paid from the British exchequer, and I may fur ther mention that one-half of the larger portion given to that Princess was settled upon her children. In sub mitting our proposition with respect to the provision for the marriage of the present Princess Royal we have follow ed as nearly as possible these two precedents ; but, on ac count of the difference which exists in the circumstances of this marriage, we have altered the proportion which the annuity bears to the marriage portion. If the Government had thought it desirable to agree to the suggestion of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield to reject altogether the plan of an annuity, they might have proposed a sum which, when invested, would have prodaced a sufficient annuity for her Royal Highness, and which at her death , would have accrued for the benefit of her children. That seems to have been the idea which dictated the proposition of so large a marriage portion as 80,0001. in the case of the daughter of Geerge III.; but, inasmuch as the person with whom her Royal Highness the pr esen t Princ ess ianee i t s h t a h t e heir presumptive similar provision t o the r Royal is and the G overnment t h ought i t about to c o mn n o t a r a ty cdhtinraabl presumedll e tt it i i n s g to propose an annuity of 800,1 . and a marriage childrenolt h o r r o e ne fi , portion of only 40,0001. In the case of the provision which was made in 1797 the sum of 80,0001. was invested in the name of trustees in the English funds, and on account of the low state of consols at the time--under 50, I think—it produced 165,0001. stook, the income arising from which was 4,930/. Therefore, taking the annuity granted by the Irish Parliament into account, the provision made for the then Princess Royal amounted to just upon 10,0001. a-year. I trust that the committee will rtoy ag a r l ee H t i o gh th n i e s s r s e . as l o n na c b a l s e e a s n o d f perfect unanimity; som e t m h o is de so ra r t t e it pLov v is a i i o n n to for ho h p e o r for persons may wish to make the annuity smaller and the marriage portion larger, but on the whole I think the pro- I po il s o a p l e w t h h i o cn ho T ua ha a ve w m ill a n de o b is di reasonable e a g n r d a emiooudeenreastse, of andits act by criticisms npou the proportions which the marriage portion and tne annuity bear to each other. Perhaps, before I sit down I may be permitted to call attention to the fcct that Prince Frederick William of Prussia, whose marriage with her daughter her Majesty has sanc ti one d, i s not an alien in blood from the Royal Family. He is a de scendant in the direct male line from the daughter of George I. and is, in truth, within the limitation of the Act of Settlement, being a descendant of the Electress Sophia and a Protestant, and the alliance, therefore, which her Royal Highness is about to contract is iu complete ac cordance with the recognised policy of this country. I hope, therefore, that the house will have no hesitation in agreeing to this proposal. The rules of the house make it necessary that I should move the resolution relating toths annuity in this committee, and that relating to the mar riage portion in committee of supply, but that is merely a natter of form, and it will only be necessary, after agree ing to the first resolution, for the Speaker to take the chair in order to enable us to form a committee of supply. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving the following resolution, That an annual sum of 8,0001. be granted to her Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund, the said annuity to be settled ou her Royal Highness tha Princess Royalfor her life, i n such a manner as her Majesty may think pro per, commencing from the date of the marriage of her Royal Highness with his Royal Highness Prince Frederick William of Prussia." Mr. Coningham and Mr. Roebuck rose together, but there being loud calls for " Roebuck" Mr. Coningham gave way. Mr. ROEBUCK said—l rise to move an amendment to the effect that a provision be made for her Royal Highness by way of a certain sure. It appears to me that by an an nuity we get ourselves into great difficulty; we enter into what our cousins across the water call " entangling alli ances." If we at once provide a certain sum we discharge our obligation to the Sovereign, we provide completely for the happiness of the Royal lady, and we get rid of the anneal grievance of an annual payment. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman told us that upon the accession of William IV. the whole of the hereditary revenues of the Crown wore given up, but surely the hon. gentleman was in error. Every year there is paid into the privy purse a sum of 20,0001. from the Dachy of Lancaster. (Hear.) I re collect, having been a student of Lord Grey's Administra tion, that previous to that noble lord coming into office, when the Duke of Wellington was Primo Minister, it was supposed by those in opposition that all the hereditary Crown revenues were given up, and Mr. Brougham com plimented the sovereign on his magnanimity ; but he was obliged afterwards to call back his words, as the whole hereditary revenues of the Crown had not been given up, the Duchy of Lancaster having been retained. Therefore, it is not quite so correct to say that the position of her Majesty is very different from that of George 111. (Hear.) But surely George 111. and his doings are not to be brought into this Parliament—the doings of an unreformed Parlia ment are not to be held up as an example to us. Nothing could be more preposterous than tho doings of George 111. and his Parliament; so preposterous wore they that when Lord Grey came into power—the right hon. gentleman be hind me (Sir J. Graham) will remember the circumstance —upon a motion of Sir H. Parnell, carried against the then Ministry, the Civil List was separated, and from that time the Civil List has been conducted ou rational prin ciples—Parliament has known, in fact, what it has been doing. But let me recall to the house what we are doing. Every year we pay to the Sovereign of this country very nearly a sum of 4u0,0001. We have provided for her Con sort. (Hear.) We have not only given him 30,000/. a-year but many lucrative offices besides. We havejust built for her Majesty that—l wont call it a magnificent palace, for I think it an abortion; but that is not our own fault. It cost the nation a groat sum of money, and, measuring it by its cost, was a great thing for us to do. But I will ask has one thing been wanting to her Majesty's comfort— (hear) —or to the comfort of her consort or of her family? Have we not been to her a generous nation 4 She has returned our generosity. (Hear.) She has shown herself worthy of the people over whom she rules; but we have shown ourselves equally worthy of her. Therefore I think I am justified in saying that we have given with no niggard hand everything which was required for her comfort or her honour. I will not follow the right hon gentleman in his talk about how much she has expended upon her journeys. I will not enter into the consideration of whether those journeys were for her pleasure or for the profit of the country—l hope that they combined these results—(hear, hear)—but I will say that, looking to the interests of the country, and looking to the future for, recollect, I repeat the phrase, we have a large family to provide for, and it is somewhat hard that we, who represent the hard-banded, hard-work ing, and often sorrowing people of England--{hear, hear) --ehould not remember those whom we represent, but should only cast our eyes upward and pay all the deference and aloration which power always obtains—l say that, as the representatives of the hardworking people of England, we are bound, not to be just before we are generous-4 never said we were—but while we are generous we are bound also to be just. (Hoar, hear.) Therefore I will move, by way of amendment "That in the opinion of this committee a suitable mar riage portion should be granted to her Royal Highness the Princess [loyal in lieu of any annuity. (Hear, hear.) Mr. W. WILLIAMS seconded the amendment. He had known no question relating to the expenditure of the public money in which the people of England had taken so deep an interest as they had iu this subject; and the do sire out of doors certainly was that a round sum, and not an annuity, should be paid to her Royal Highness. He was anxious to deal liberally with this question, but he should like to be informed whether the Government intended to continue the payment of this annuity to the Princess Royal, after she became Queen of Prussia. Nothing could, be more offensive to the people of England than the pay ment of money raised by taxes levied upon them to the Queen either of rrnssia or of any other foreign country ; and it was worthy the consideration of the Government whether this annuity—if an annuity were granted—should not cease when her Royal Highness became, as she pro bably would, Queen of Prussia. (Cries of " Divide ! divide !") The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—The pro position of the hon. and learned gentleman is very diffi cult to deal with, because he does not state what gross sum he proposes to give to her Royal Highness. He has not stated that the proposition of the Government is an un reasonable one; and if he proposes to give a sum which will produce anything approaching to the annuity now suggested he must increase the sum to be voted in com mittee of supply to a very large amount. Allow me to say that, although he professes to speak for the poor taxpayer, he would, according to his plan, make a bargain which would be exceedingly disadvantageous to the public. He proposes that a largo sum of money should be invested in she hands of trustees who should pay the interest to her Royal Highness, rya that at her death the principal sum should be divided among (here a(Hear.) ) c h s d r r e e nli have v s shee thmaydiminishede marriage portion What I propose is that the larger part of the grant should be in the form of an annuity terminatin g with the life of r l e l s r s " reason that it her Royal Highness. part of the grant proportion which in the case of the two Princesses Royal, appearedthe r or t d io a n u g b h ot t ro e e r u s t soo desirable the e a o .n rg u ed tt l yo . fi a o ;: rc d rteh G a ese increase the a which would cease with the life of the Princess Royal, and to diminish that which would be gr an t e d t o h er and her descendants in perpetuity. With reference to the objec tion which has been made to granting an annuity, l e t me for, moment call the attention of the committee in the first place to the fact that that has b een th e way i n which former Parliaments have provided for the members of the Royal family, and in the next place to the great reduction which those annuities have undergone since the a c cess i on of her present Majesty - The annuities granted or in creased and those which have dropp e d d ur i ng h er Ma jesty's reign ara shown by the following table : Annuities propped. I Annuities Granted or Increased. 1839. Duchess of Kent and Princess Vic toria •• £22,0 0 184). Princess Elizabeth 13,000 Princess Augusta • • 13,000 1043. 11.11.11. the Duke of Sussex .... • . 1845. 11./I.EI. the Prin cess Sophia of Gloucester 1848.11.11.11. the Prin cess Sophia .. • • 16,000 18:9. Queen Adelaide 100,000 1850. 11.K.H. the Duke of Cambridge •• • • 27,000 1852. H.R.H. the Duke orCumbealand,late King of lianover.• 21,000 1857. 11.R.fl the Duchess of Gloucester 1839. The Duchess of KentX3o,ooo 1830. Princess Sophia 3,000 Princess Mary, Duchess of Gleces ter ••• • • • 3.000 11 11 11. Prince Al bert of tiakeCoburg and Gotha 1850. 11.11.11. the Duke of Cambridge E.R.H. the Prin cess brary of Cam- , bridge . n.R.11. the Prin cess Augusta, now Duchess of Meek - lenburg-Strelita 3,000 The Duchess of Cam bridge X 256,00:, Granted .... 90,000 Saving ...... 166,000 Diminution of charge•• ...... X 166,000 * £256,000 The committee must see that if they accede to the pro posal now made for granting the annuity of 8,000/., the charge on the consolidated fund will be slight indeed compared with what it was at her Majesty's accession tion to the throne. In reference to the objection of my hon. and learned friend (Mr. Roebuck), that in the event of a wer with Prussia there would be an im propriety iu paying this annuity, I am unwilling to con template any such contingency, but I would call the atten tion of the committee to the tact that during the late war with Russia this nation, true to its financial engagements, continued to discharge the interest of the Russian loan, which was an international obligation very.different from that which would exist towards tho Princess Royal. With these explanations, I trust that the committee will have no difficulty in agreeing to the original motion. (Hear, hear.) Sir C. NAPIEi said, that it appeared to him that be fore the house settled the dowry of her Royal Highness, they ought to be informed what settlement the King of Prussia intended to make upon his nephew. (Laughter.) That was the practice in matrimonial alliances entered into between private families, and he did not think that a prac tice so salutary ought to be departed from. (Hoar, hear, and laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL—I confess, Sir, that the question to be decided by the committee appears to me to too a suffi ciently simple one. When her Majesty came to the throne an arrangement was made--not, I conceive, one of extra vagant generosity, as represented by the hon. and learned member for Sheffield, but one by which a sum was settled upon her Majesty which was considered a fitting sum to enable her to maintain her royal dignity ---(hear, hear)—a sum not greater than any Sovereign of this country ought to receive to enable him or her to maintain the dignity of the throne. (Loud cheers.) That settlement was made upon a very just p r i nc i a l e, esta bli s h e d by L or d G rey, an d L or d Althorp, whi c h provided that, instead of having a Civil List, of whi c h part should go to t h e h ouse h o ld , par t t o th e judges, and part to the Speaker of this house, and part to the diplomatic service, a certain sum should be given to the Privy Purse and to the Lord Chamberlain and Lord Steward to maintain the household of her Majesty. Ac cording to that principle, there was settled upon her Ma jesty the sum which it was thought proper for the nation to grant to its Sovereign. (Hear, hear) Now, the hon. and learned gentlealan says that we have been showing extra ordinary generosity, but I confess I am unable to see where. (Hear.) Since the settlement to which I have re ferred was made we have bad no pecuniary transactions with the Sovereign of these realms. (Hear.) Her Majesty has done that which the nation readily acknowledges (hear, hear) ; she has preserved duo economy and order in her household—(hear)—and has avoided any extravagance of expenditure which might have made it necessary for her to apply to this house for means to pay debts which she had contracted, while, at the same time, she has maintained the splendour of the throne and the dignity of the nation. (Loud cheers.) That being the case, we have now, twenty years after the accession of her Majesty, an application made to us ou an extraordinary occasion. Her Majesty's beloved daughter is about to be married, and the match is . not only a suitable match, but I believe also that it is a match of affection, to a prince of a Prot es t an t coun t r y— a I prince of the Royal. House of Prussia, and it is necessary I that some provision should be made for her upon the occa- I sion. It appears to roe, sir, that the best way we can an swer the appeal which is now made to us is to agree to the I proposal brought forward by the advisers of the Crown if it contains nothing preposterous or extravagant. (Cheers.) As far es I myself am concerned, I consider that the pro- I posal for a settlement of a capital sum of 40,0001. and an annunity of 8,0001. is by no means an extravagant proposal —(cheers)--and more particularly when I consider that it has been the custom to provide fur the eldest daushter of the Sovereign a more ample dowry than for the younger members of the family. The hon. and learned gentleman proposes that the dowry of her Royal Highness should be given at once, in one fixed KM. Now, sir, I confess that I see no advantage to be derived from such a course. (Hear, hear.) On the contrary, it appears to me that, as the Princess Royal, upon her marriage, will not be placed at once in aposition which will give her a very large income, it is desirable that upon her first entrance into Prussia she should receive such an annuity as might befit tne nation from which she came, and also the people of whom some day she may be the Sovereign. (Hear, hear.) So far from thinking; as the hon. and learned gentleman seems to think, that the poorer classes of the community may be indisposed towards the grant, for my part I believe that there is no class, however poor, which will not be ready to testify affection towards her Majesty —(hear)— and I am persuaded that the people of this country will display their readiness in snaking not an extravagant but a proper provision for the Princess Royal, the eldest daughter of their Sovereign. (Hear, hear.) Under these circum stances I can take no other course than to agree with the proposal of her Majesty's Government. If the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had proposed a capital sum I would have listened to the reasons which he advanced, but the right hon. gentleman has stated his reasons why an annual sum should be fixed, and he has stated very truly that, under the proposed arrangement, should the Princess Royal be blessed with a family, there will be no occasion for a large capital sum to be settled upon her children, as was necessary in the case of the Princess of Wurtemberg. With that family I have but little acquaintance, but I have some acquaintance with Prince Frederick William of Prussia, and a man more faithful to his word Ido not know. (Hear, hear.) He is a highly talented and distinguished Prince, and permit me to express a hope that the Princess Royal, when she leaves the country and the house in which she has been brought up, may practise all those domestic virtues in which the family to which she belongs so pre-eminently excel—(hear) —and that in the land of her adoption she may find a home in which the remainder of her days may be spent in com fort and happiness. (Loud cheers.) Mr. ROEBUCK—There was something in the tone of the noble lord which seemed to imply that I was finding fault with the magnitude of the dowry proposed. Now, Sir, I think that I began by saying that I believed it to be the desire of the hou se t o provide for a daughter of Eng land in a manner befitting her honour and our own—(hear, bear)—and I stated that this house had never dealt with the Sovereign in a niggard spirit. (Hear, hear.) All that I propose is that the sum to be given should be given in a different manner. Now, what the Government proposes to give is equivalent to 216,0001. (" No, no.") I beg pardon —22 years' purchase of the annuity added to the capital sum of 40,0001. amounts to 216,0001. Now, the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer has stated that the fixed sum must be voted in Committee of Supply, and therefore I am not called upon to make any suggestion with regard to that sum in this committee. The house is capable of judging what sum is necessary, and I am cer tain that the provision which it will make, whatever may bo the form in which it is made, will be worthy of the house and of her Royal Highness; but, for my own part, I am persuaded that we should best discharge our duties by fixing a certain capital sum. (Hear, hear.) The ques tion is one upon which different opinions may exist; but I do not think that any imputation can rest upon me for the course which I have felt it my duty to pursue. (Hoar.) Mr. B &SS would prefer an annuity to a capital sum. He thought that the form of dowry proposed by the Go vernment was that which would best satisfy the people of this country_ There was another consiaeration which ought not to be lost sight of. Prussia had, within a very few years, suffered from political convulsions, which might recur, and the Princess Royal might be driven back to this country. (Oh, oh !) God forbid that such a thing sbonld occur, but at the same time the possibility of it ought not entirely to bo lost sight of. Mr. CLAY thought the committee ought not to divide until they understood the question upon which the division was to take place. (Hear, hear.) He should therefore wish to know from the hon. and learned member for Sheffield whether his objection was to the amount of the sum pro. posed or merely to the mode in which that sum was to be paid. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK.—I have not the slightest hesitation in saying, Sir, that my objection is both to the amount and to the manner in which it is proposed to be paid. Mr. DISRAELL—The right hon. gentleman the Chan cellor of the Exchequer has given it as his opinion that una nimity was not to be expected among the members of this House upon an occasion like the present. I confess, how ever, that the question under our notice seems to me to be one with respect to which it is most desirable that unani mity should prevail. (Hear, hear.) So long as that ques tion related merely to the form in which the intentions of the House should be carried into effect our difference of ojeinion with respect to it was of a very narrow character, and until the last declaration made by the honourable and learned member for Sheffield I confidently hoped that we might arrive at a decision without being compelled to go through the ceremony of dividing, (Cheers.) But, as I now understand the views of the hon. and learned gentleman, he objects not only to the amount of the grant, but to the form in which it is proposed to be made, and I therefore cannot refrain, Sir, from troubling the House with a few observations before we go to a division. I have, for my own part, :always felt that the Crown of England is placed in a somewhat painful position when it is obliged to appeal in this or in analogous cases to the liberality of the House of Commons. We should, however. I think, bear in mind what the causes are which have rendered such appeals ne cessary. The jealousy of Parliament has, in my opinion, carried somewhat too far the principle that the Crown should, upon occasions of comparative insignificance, have recourse to its aid and asssistance. (Hear, hear.) That jealousy it is which requires those appeals to be made, and it therefore becomes us to consider them in a cordial and generous spirit when they are brought under our notice. (Hear.) Ido not mean to follow the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer through the ample and minute details—(hear, hear, and a laugh)— with which he has favoured us in reference to the pecuniary position of King George 111. Taking a broad view, how ever, of the relative situations of our present Sovereign and her illustrious grandfather, it must be admitted that the latter Sovereign obtained supplies from the Civil List of which her Majesty has not the advantage. (Hear.) It must also be borne in mind that, independent of the sup plies to which the right hon. gentleman has referred, her Majesty has been deprived of those revenues of the king dons of Hanover which her predecessor enjoyed ' • nor ought we to forget that during the 20 years of her happy reign no appeal to this house has been made in consequence of any debts incurred in connection with the Civil List, while, as the noble lord the member for London has re minded us, a splendid hospitality, combined with a just economy, is maintained by the Sovereign in a manner which reflects honour and dignity upon the nation. (Hear.) I cannot agree with the hon. and learned member for Sheffield that the Civil List is settled upon her Majesty solely for her own advantage, and to promote the comfort and happiness of the Royal family. Upon the contrary, I think that the high ceremonial and etiquette which it contributes to uphold concern the dignity of the country quite as much as they do the convenience of the Sove reign. (Hear, hear.) Taking these circumstances, then, into consideration, I am bound to acknowledge —as, in deed, all those bon. members who have spoken this even ing have acknowledged--not only that this appeal to us is necessary, but we should be ready to welcome the event which has led to its being made with feelings of sympathy, respect and affection. (Hear.) Are we not now then engaged in discussing a point of a very trivial character. (Hear.) I We are employed in calculating what may be the value of an annuity, or whether it is desirable that the present settlement should be made through the medium of a par ticular machinery. (Hear, hear.) For nay own part, I think that man must have great confidence in his opinion who upon a question of this nature would lay it down as a peremptory principle that the most advantageous way to carry out the proposed settlement must be either in the shape of a round sum, as the hon. and learned gentleman the member for Sheffield has termed it, or by means of that mixed process which the Government has submitted to our consideration. If, however, we agree in arriving at the con clusion that this appeal to Parliament is one which ought to be made—if we are all prepared torespond to the appeal and are desirous that it should be carried into effect in a spirit of liberality--then Isay that the question is one with respect to which we might to place confidence in her Ma jesty's ministers, who, it is but reasonable to suppose, have given it the most mature consideration. (Hear, hear.) Upon the exact amount of the sum to be voted it is not possible that in an assembly numbering so many members as the House of Commons wo could all agree. (Hear, hear.) If every hou. memberwere to write down his own estimate of what that sum ought to be on a piece of paper and read it to the House, I imagine we should find that the fixing upon sums very various in amount would be the result. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Indeed, I think the feelings of the House upon this subject can be very well ascertained when we reflect that, even in the case of those who aro opposed to the proposition before us it seems to be a question as to whether the sum to be granted shall be 20,0001., 30,0001., or 40,0001. (Hear, hear.) That being so Sir, it seems to me that it would be a most ungracious pro ceeding that we shruld go to a division ou a question of a character so trivial. (Hear, hear.) If the principl e of th e grant were opposed, I could understand a proposition based upon that view. But the principle being one to which a cordial assent has been given, there ought to be no difficulty in settling the amount of the grant in a manner which would bring the house to an unambiguous and unanimous conclusion. (Hear, hear.) We should not lose sight of the fact that were it not for that settlement, which Parliament iu its wisdom determined to make in connexion with the Civil List, and the disp osa l o f th e estates of the Crown, her Majesty would be in a position to come down to this house and demand a vote of money to defray the expense of keeping up that ceremonial in the maintenance of which, as I said before, the country and the Sovereign are equally concerned. I say nothing of the circumstances under which this royal 'marriage is to take place. It does not become me to speak of a princess so near the Throne as the royal lady who has so often been alluded to in the course of this discussion. I may, how ever state—that which we all feel—that she is one who is worthy of her tamily and of England—(cheers)--one who is well cal cu l a t e d to adorn that throne which she is des tined to occupy. All those who have the privilege of being acquainted with her bear the highest testimony to the brightness of her mind and the sweetness of her disposi tion, and I cannot help thinking that when an event such as that to which our attention now directed takes place, and when there is no objection to the principle of the grant which, in anticipation of that event we are called upon to vote, it would be but becoming unanimously to support the proposition which her Majesty's Ministers, acting upon their own responsibility, have submitted to us for our approval. (Hear, hear.) I must a t th e same time beg o f the hon. and learned gentleman the member for Sheffield by no means to believe that I am op posed to the principle which he advocates of the expe diency of voting this money in a round sum. I frankly admit that that may bo the best course to adopt. I must, however, say that the hon. and learned gentleman ought not, because I deem unanimity to be so desirable upon the present occadon, seek to give currency to that which would be a misrepresentation — namely, that while such is the opinion of those who differ from him, they do not sympathise with the working classes in this country quite as much as the hon. and learned, gentleman when he opsnsd this discussion this evenin g , to declare his willing ness to meet the appeal which has been made to the house in a spirit of generosity, and I should therefore ask him whether, entertaining such views, ho could not come to the conclusion to accede in that spirit to a proposition which the Government have made after mature censidera- Lion, and thus contribute to close, in a most gracious manner, the connexion of the House of Commons with an event which I hops will lead to the most happy conse quences in tho case of the Royal pair whom it so inti mately concerns. (Cheers.) Mr. CONINGHAM wished to state his reasons why be should support the amendment of his hon. and learned friend (Mr. Roebuck). He supported that amendment, first, on pecuniary, and, secondly, and still more, on poli tical grounds. (Hear.) The Princess Royal was about to marry into a foreign house—a German house. After she bad once left these shores and had become identified in in terest with a foreign house and a foreign dynasty he deci dedly objeated to the continuance of such relations with this country as the proposed annuity would establish. (Hear, hear.) Her domestic relations with this country would-still remain, but so long as a German Prince was a stipendiary of this country he should view that connexion with the greatest jealousy. On these grounds he was in fa vour of a fixed payment, and was opposed to an annual payment. Ho did not wish to stand between the house and the division, nut would content himself with stating that he should vote for the amendment of his hon. and learned friend the member for Sheffield. (Cheers.) Col. NORTH, who rose amid loud calls for a division, said there was ono point which had been lost sight of dur ing the debate which doses ved to be borne in mind. The people of this country interfered with the marriages of the Royal family in a manner that members of that house per sonally would not tolerate. (Cries of " Oh, I" " Divide.") He referred to the interference which was exercised in de claring whom the members of the Royal family should marry. As long as this interference was kept up Parlia ment was bound to act most liberally to them when mar riages did take place. (Hear.) Lord ELCHO (who rose amid cries of " Agreed,") hoped that his hon. and learned friend would withdraw his amendment. It was extremely desirable that upon occa sion like the present the house should adopt the recom mendation of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) and pass this resolution unanimously. (Cheers.) He was sure there was not a member in the house who would not cor dially respond to what had fallen from every hon. gentle man who had addressed the house with reference to the loyalty and duty which they all owed to the Sovereign. The only difference between the hon. members was whe ther they should pay the Princess Royal an annuity or a sum down. (" Divide." "Agree.") He was strongly of opi nion that, regard being had to the position of this country towards foreign countries, it was desii able that the dowry should be paid in one sum ; but he did not wish to see the house divide on the subject, and he hoped that his hon. and learned friend would be induced to withdraw his amen Iment, so that the house might come to a unanimous vote in favour of this resolution. (Cheers.) Mr. ROEBUCK and Lord PALMERSTON - rose together, but the noble viscount gave way in deference to the wishes of the house. The hon. and learned gentleman said,—l do not desire to press my motion. (Loud cheers ) I have told the house what I think it 'ought to do, and if it will permit me I will now withdraw my motion. (Cheers.) The amendment was by leave aithdrawn. The first resolution proposed by the CHIKOELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was then agreed to, and ordered to be reported to the House. The house resumed, and again resolved itself into com mittee of supply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved the second resolution, relative to the payment of the 40,000/. THE SLAVE TRADE. Sir G. B. PECHELL rose to call attention to 'the in creased importation of slaves into the island of Calm, and to the insufficient number and cls.ss of her Majesty's ves sels now employed en those coasts for the suppression of the slave trade. The gallant admiral contended that our squadron was insufficient, and that it was removed to other stations instead of being kept in those parts whore it would be able to act against the slave trade, and to suppress that accursed traffic. Our vessels also were too large for the pur pose. The consequence was that the slave trade was carried on to an extent of which the noble lord at the lead of the Government could have no conception. The feeling of Jamaica on this subject was shown by a late meeting which had been held in that island, presided over by the bishop of the diocese. They adopted resolutions stating the con stant violation of the treaties which prohibited the traffic on the coast of Cuba, and calling upon the noble lord et the head of the Government to insist upon their obser vance. He hoped that the Government would take measures both to increase the number and improve the quality of the vessels stationed on the coast of Cuba. He had proposed last session that gunboats should be stationed there, and had had a promise from the First Lord of the Admiralty that this suggestion should be carried out ; but only the other day he had been told that the climate was too hot for these vessels to be employed. Admiral WALCOTT trusted that the First Lord of the Admiralty would not assent to the suggestion of the gallant officer, to station gunboats on the Cuban coast. The only result of employing vessels with insufficient accommodation in thst climate was to generate malignant feriae amongst their crews. He hail served himself ou that coast and knew the difficulties and. the risk which service there entailed. He was ordered by his commander-in chief to take measures for discovering the haunts of pirates and slavers. Finding his ship unsuited for the purpose ho had employed his boats and searched about 500 miles of the north coast of Cuba. He was successful as to pirates but not as to slavers, because the north side of that island was full of creeks more beauti ful and more ad,ipted to the concealment of small vessels than could be found on any other coast with which he was acquainted. When lie returned from the expedition he was obliged to invalid for some weeks, as were also many of the men who went with hies in boats : and a fever broke out in the frigate which ho commanded, and also in the sloop that accompanied them ; and this led to the loss of many valuable lives. Now, no doubt humanity called upon us to make every possible exertion for the suppression of the slave trade, but still he thought that some consideration should be given to the lives of our officers and men, which should not be wasted in an effort, probably unsuccessful, to suppress the slave trade. The only way was to use endea vours with the Government of Spain Fiiinilar to those which had been successful with that of Brazil. If those govern ments were induced to come forward to pat down this ob noxious tea c they would be more successful than we, be cause the men employed by them would bo inured to the climate, and they would be able to obtain information which we could not. Sir C. WOOD said that his hon. and gallant friend had been more successful in pointing out the difficulties of suppressing the slave trade than in showing the means of overcoming them. It was true that great difficulties were interposed in the way of supprezaing that trade by vessels being sent out under the flag of the United States, which we could not touch. He believed the most effectual measure it was at present in our power to adopt for the sup pression of the slave tat. Is, was to keep a strong force of cruisers on the coast of Africa. _ _ _ Sir J. TRELAWNY did not think the sending out of a large number of cruisers to the coast of Africa would be the proper step to take for checking that traffic. Mr. KINNAIRD wished to know whether her iitajesty'e Ministers had of late a idressed any representations to the Spanish Government for the purpose of putting a stop to the traffic of slaves in Cuba? It would appear that the slave trade was at present more extensively carried on than ever in that quarter. Perhaps the noble lord at the head of the Government would afford them some explanation with respect to the present state of the negotiations between the Ministers of this country and of Spain in reference to the subject. Lord PALMERSTON said that Iris noble friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs ha I addressed repeated re presentations to the Government of Spain with respect to the state of the slave trade along the coast of Cuba ; and the Spanish Government had invariably given the most sa tisfactory answers to those representations, and had issued orders for the exercise of increased vigilance for the pre vention of that traffic, but had at the same time invariable expressed doubts of the truth of the accounts which had reached this country. The fact was that it was very difficult to act through a government at Madrid on a government at Cuba, which Government, he was afraid, was swayed by arguments that were powerful with those colonial authori ties. He could, however, assure his hon. friend that as far as diplomatic representations could go, no efforts were wanting on the past of her Majesty's Ministers to induce the Spanish Government to take real and effectual steps for the suppression of the slave trade in Cuba. THE GERMAN LEGION AT THE CAPE. Mr. ADDERLEY said be hoped the house would allow him to take that opportunity of directing its attention to the excessive expenditure which had been incurred in the location of the German Legion on the Cape frontier, and to the impolicy of thereby continuing and extending a charge on the revenues of this country in relief of the colonists from the defence of their own frontier against Kaffir in vasion. He thought it was the duty of the house to in quire whether the heads of departments in this country were justified in taking measures, involving a vast outlay, without h av i ng i n any way con sulted parliament upon the matter. It was very well to talk of the necessity of dis banding the German Legion, but the great question for consideration was whether it had been disbanded on the most advantageous terms. Now, he believed he could show by the clearest evidence that that object might have been accomplished at one-fifth of the expense which had actually been incurred. The men of the German Legion might have been disbanded by paying each of them is. a day, or 161. a year ; and the actual charge for sending each of thoze men to the Cape amounted to 100/. There were 8,000 of those men, and at the rate of 1001. for each, their removal to the Cape would have cost 800,000/. ; and all that large sum might have been expended without the sanction and control of parliament. But fortunately for us only 2,500 out of the 8,000 had accepte•cl the offer to get themselves removed to the Cape. It was true that the sum set down in the estimate for that removal amounted to only 91,000/. ; but in that estimate there was no allowance made for the cost of the passage of those men and of the passage of their wives and children; or for the rations to be furnished to them for a year, or for the outlay to be incurred in constructing roads, bridges, and other works in the country in which they were to settle, or for a variety of other charges; and he repeated that he believed the total expenditure for each man could not amount to less than 1001. But it was said that by that measure we should get rid for the future of the enormous expenditure entailed by Kaffir wars. He believed, however, that it would be productive of no such result. When the actual estimate came before them, he should, if no other member did it, take the sense of the house upon it, with a view to check the progress of such a system. Mr. LABOUCHERE acknowledged the importance of the question, stating at the same time that it was one most difficult deal with, and embarrassing to any Go vernment. No one. he thought, could doubt that it was the duty of a country to do all in its power to protect its colonists, and he implored the house to pause lest by one false step in the application of a principle, however sound and just in itself, it might inflict ruin and misery, or death, upon settlers who had left this country in the full expecta tion that as far as the presence of a military force was con cerned they would be protected from danger upon the part of the natives of the settlement. It was true that they had in their own recollection a Kaffir war, which, besides in Yoking the unhappy colonists in misery, throw upon this country the duty of defraying an enormous expenditure of money. But in his belief that war was mainly to be attri buted to the fact that the Government of the day, acting on the best motives, had denuded the colony of troops to such an extent as emboldened the natives to attack the colo nists. With respect to the engagement of the German Legion, the house would reflect that it was embodied at a period when the Government and the country were en gaged in an arduous struggle with Russia ; and although that struggle fortunately terminated before the legion was sent to Sebastopol, yet, had it continued, every one of the soldiers composing it wore as ready as our own ga ll ant countrymen to lay down their lives in the trenches before the belearsured fortress--(hear)—and he was convinced that had such an opportunity been afforded them, they would have reflected no dishonour either upon the country which they served or that of their birth. (Cheers.) Considering the circumstances under which they were enrolled, it was of the utmost consequence that they should be treated not only with justice but with liberality. We had necessarily entered into very onerous engagements on raising the German 14 , ,gi0n. He N5;3 not quite certain what the sum of money which would be saved by sending the German Legion to the Cape and disbanding the regi ment there would be. He believed that the sum necessa rily expended on the disbanding of the legion would be 64,000/., which must, therefore, be taken from the expense of sending them to the Cape. The expense incurred for the three-years contemplated was 205,000/., from which must be deducted, in addition to the 64,0001., the sum voted by the colonists-40,000/, immediate payment, and 40,000/. prospectively, so that the hon. gentleman would see that, with all these deductions, the real expense would be little more than 60,000/., and it was fair to calculate that in return for that there would be some increased value of the land. Sir DE LACY EVANS said that this seemed to him rather a military question than one to be discussed on going into committee upon the navy estimates ; and, in deed, it might be a very fit subject for discussion when the ♦ote for the German Legion came before them. The whole question, indeed, was wider and more extensive than its treatment implied. They ought to consider whether it was right to have employed Germans at all in our army; and, secondly, whether those Germans, who had never seen the face of an enemy, had not been far more liberally treated than that part of the British army which had been die. banded, he feared with little bounty and little courtesy, after fighting for months in the trenches. The German Legion had been treated with a generosity beyond the limits of prudence. Not only had the division been en listed for three years after the war, but they had been placed in a position which would give them a further claim Upon this country. There was no doubt that the frontiers of the Cape colony at the present moment were very much like the condition of the border counties in this country some hundred years ago. There would always be cattle stealing there ; but if they thought to dofend the line of frontier by the settlement of a German Legion of 2,800 men, they would be very much mistaken. (Hear.) If the colonists were not able to defend themselves without their assistance, he was sure that they would not be able to do so with their help, and some additional measures would have to be resorted to. He thought the whole system fallacious, and utterly inconsistent with our true colonial policy. Major WOIITLEY said that be was sorry to hear the hon. and gallant member describe the Kafirs as a set of worthless barbarians. From the experience which he bad for several years of the Kafirs, be was convinced that they were a most formidable set of people. There were at pre sent 12,000 of those tribes in the colony, every one of them armed with a rifle, and the whole forming a body of the best light infantry in the world, and he himself had had the mortification of seeing two of the fittest regiments in her Majesty's service retire before those whom the hon. and gallant member had styled " worthless barbarians." He entreated the house not to be niggardly in the sums which it voted for keeping up a strong military force at the Cape as if this were not done, he f e lt con fid ent that in a short lime the country would be involved in another long and expensive war with the Kafir tribes. (Hear.) Col. :.,YKES suggested that a similar course might be adopted with respect to the Kafirs as had been so success fully pursued in India, viz., that of enlisting among the British troops some portion of the native population, and thus Greeting among them a feeling of loyalty and attach ment towards this country. Mr. P. O'BRIEN regarded the course proposed as but the honourable fulfilment of the terms of the contract made with the men of the German Legion at the time of their enlistment. The house then went into committee. A vote 0f40,0001. was agreed to without any remark for the dowry of the Princess Royal. A vote of 46,7-2/. was next proposed as head money for the destruction of pirates by her Majesty's navy and mis cellaneous services. Sir J. TRELAWNY thought that the system of giving this blood money was the relic of a barbarous time, and should divide the committee against the vote. General THOMPSON said he disbeiieve.i altogether in pirates. Was it quite clear that the so-called pirates whom we had destroyed were not in reality Custom-house officers of China, who were looking after those engaged in the great piracy we had been carrying on in the Chinese waters ? Mr. VANSITTART said there could be no doubt that the individuals killed by her Majesty's navy were in reality pirates, and this was shown by the gratitude evinced by the native merchants of Shanghai towards the officers and crews who had destroyed or captured the pirates. Mr. AYRTON thought that the principle of paying the navy for the performance cf this kind of work was not a correct one, and seeing that a sum of 7 millions was to be voted for the navy during a time of peace, he thought that the least the navy could do in return would be to afford this amount of protection to the mercantile interest of this country. In reply to a question put by Admiral DUNCOMBE, Sir C. WOOD stated that during the last three years there had been launched from her Majesty's dockyards and other private yards for the navy, nine ships of the line, nine frigates, eighteen sloops and corvettes, 182 gun vessels and gun boats, nine floating batteries, and 104 mortar vessels and gun boats. After some further discussion, the vote was agreed to. The next vote proposed was 441,0031. for half-pay allow• ances. Sir a PECHELL and other members offered some ob servations upon the vote, which was agreed to. Some other votes, which were spoken to by Mr. Ben tinck, Mr. Lindsay, Sir C. Napier, General Codrington, and other members, wore agreed to. The sum of .565,434/. for the packet service was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress and obtained leave to st Sin. GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH. The secoud reading of this bill was postponed until Monday next. TRANSPORTATION AND PENAL SERVITUDE BILL. Mr. WARREN and several other members protested against the third reading of so important a bill being taken at so late an hour—it was then midnight—but the Go vernment persisted, and the Opposition gave way. The bill was accordingly read a third time and passed. The orders of the day wore disposed of, and the house adjourned. Country Diarket3. LIVERPOOL-MAT 22. There were few buyers of wheat and flour at our cora exchange this morning than for several market days. The prices were dearer than on Tues.lay-1d to 2d per bushel on wheat, tid to le per barrel and sack on flour, Cd to Is per qr. on ledian corn, but no other change of importance can be made. The weather is all that can be desired. WAKEFIELD—MAT 22. Tho business in wheat was done at a steady sale of Is to 2s per qr. advance to-day, and in other articles there was no material change. Average prices of grain—Wheat, ,r,38 ; barley, 46s ld ; oats, 28s —d ; beans, 43s 3d ; peas, 44s Bid ; rye, —s. Od. EXETER-ATA.i 22. CORN.—Wheat, 7s 6d to Ss • ' barley, 5s Od to 5 0 6 grinding do., 0, Od t o O s Od. Oats, 3s Od to 3s 4d. Bean% Os 01 to 0 Ud. Peas, 008 Od to 00s Od. FLOUR.—Fine, 43s Od to 45s Od ; seconds, 41s Od to 43a Od per sack. CATTLE.—Thero was a small supply of bullocks. Best beef, from lOs to lls Gd per score ; inferior, Os 6d to lle per score ; fat calves, —d to Gd per lb ; barrenners, Os ed to Os Od. per score ; cows and calves, 121. to 201. t,s ; butchers' calves, Od to 7d per lb., rearing calves —s to -- s each; sheep, ewes and lambs, 2/. Os to 3/. —s per couple; ewes, 0 .t to 8d; wethers, 8d ; lambs, —to Od per lb. Pigs, large size, —s to —s; second size, —s to —s ; slips, — 8 to —s; suckers, —s to —s. Rough fat, 40 per lb. Pork carcases from lOs Od to lls Od per score. BE,ISTOL SUGAR-MAT 22. The market has been very animated this week, and sales for arrival to the extent of 2,030 tons are reported, at a further advance of 6d to is per cwt. On the spot trans actions are unimportant, the recent arrivals front the West Indies not being yet ready for the market. The refined market is quiet but very firm, and the mane• facturers have scarcely anything to offer. Itum is much wanted, without an adequate supply. COIL MARKET.—MAT 22. Prices of Coals per ton at the close of the market. s. d Wallaend, /to. Bates's West Hartley ,15 Bell's Primrose 13 s d. ietton l4 7 6 Bebside's Hartley l6 Howard's West Hartley .Eden , . 15 1 • Gosforth 1 Netherton 16 9 ,,leaham l6 0 Longridge's Wst Hartley 16 9 &d en mai n l6 0 North Percy Hartley _l5 Ililda 14 3 Taufield Moor l5 e' Kepier Grainge ... ...... 16 6 Tanfield Moor Buts 14 riraddyll l6 6 Walker Primrose l3 i L um l ey 16 0 Wylam Walleend, sco Peusher 15 6 West Kelloe 15 3 deugh Hall 15 6 Cassop 16 0 Whitworth l5 1 Ships at market, 107 ; sold, 76. CRYSTAL PALACE.—OPERA CONCERT DAY.—Admia siou Seven Shillings and Sixpence.—Friday, May 22. —Admissions on payment 2,704; ditto by seasoa tickets, 875.—Total visitors, 3,579. BIRTHS. OF A SON. On the 21st inst., at 5, Melbury-terrace, Blandford• square, the wife o f Ed mon d G orman, Esq. On the 21st inst., the wife of Thomas Hall, Esq., 39, Mildmay-park, Stoke-Newington. OF A DAUOTITER. On the 21st inst., at 16, Regent's villas, Avenue-road, Regent's•p:ark, Airs. Charles Orme. On the 21st in•t., at St. Katharine's, Regent's-park, th• wife of the Rev. J. Hulbert Glover. MARRIED. On the 21st inst., at Whitbourne Church, John Inglis, Esq., of Auch en dinny, l a t e C a pt a i n i n 11th Hussars, to Cecilia Abigail, third daughter of John Freeman, Esq., Gaines, Herefordshire. On the 21st inst., at St. Stephen's Church, Paddington, William S. Luke, Esq., R.N., to Georgians, the youngest daughter of William Larkins, Esq., late of Sidmouth, Devon. DIED. On the 21st inst., at Brighton, Benjamin Laurenoer Esq., aged. 63. On the 21st inst , at Sutton, near Hull, Thomas Holder ness, Esq., aged 71. On the 21st inst., at Ramsgate, W. Wynn, Esq., Of Blackheath, aged 53. On the 21st inst., George Davey, Esq., of °very, Dor- Chester, Oxon, aged 64. On th e 19th inst., at Ashstead, S urre y, Li eu t.-General John Chester, late of R.A., aged 77. in - On the 14th i ns t., Willi am S . P owe ll , E sq., o f A ton, Herefordshire, aged 32. On the 19th inst., at Lower Walmer, Deal, Comman der Win. Batt, R.N., aged 64. On the 13th inst., at St. Helier's, Jersey, Richard, ad tb; third son of the late Li eu t.-C o l . D'A rcy, R.A., and 33. Catherine, sister of th e p resen t E ar l D e L a W ar r, age LONDON : Printed and Published. by WIRD() YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at 2 1 /te Sun Office, /sic. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in 00 county of Middlesex, Saturday, May 23,11857. /I la It 21 111 1, ~~ I , for ing lan Pie tali