The Sun. — London, England, 1806-06-14 00:00:00

LEvIPERIAL HOUSE OF PEERS. FRIDAY, JUNE 13. COUNSEL were heard at considerable. length, in continuation, respe&ing the Appeal ,Cause, from , Cpancery, .Seymour v. Seymour. proceed again to-1110frow.. • . The Royal Assent wat given, by, Commision; to the 'income Tax 111 —the Irish Sugar Duties—the Irish Stamp DutuC, and the IriSh Defence .mt Re• peAßiil"; . and. to twelve' Bills of a private and local description. - , • The Lords cornmissintiers were, „die LORD CHAN CELLOR, LordA.,UCKLAND, and Lord WALSINGHAM . CONFERENCE WITH THE COMMONS. The. CHANCELLOR df-the ExcliEstui;B, attended by several Members, appeared at the Bar,. and deli vered a Message from the Commons, importing that that House - required a speedy conference with 'their Lordships, relative to.a subject in which the repu tation of the Country, and the interests of huma nity,- justice, and . sound . policy, - were deeply con cerned, After the -Messengers had retired from : the Bar, their Lordships ordered that : a conference with the Corrimonsishould be held forthwith, in the Painted Chamber. And the Deputation from the Commons again appearing : at the Bar, they were informed of tine Mr:ALEXANDER brought up from the Commons 'the Ch'elsea Pensioner Bill, and the Additional Irish Malt Duties' Bill: A great number of/Private Bills• were brought up from the Commons by 'Sir M. B. Foll.:es, 'Messrs. Byng, Joddrell, GrithaM, and other Gentlemen and of whiCh the greater part were forthwith read a first The House then proCeeded.to selea a Deputation to manage the conferente on the part of their Lord ships ; and accordingly the Duke of Norfolk, the Earls of Radnor and Vicount Falmouth,. Bishop of St. Asaph, Lords Holland, RaWdon, Dundas, El lenborough, and Lauderdale; were nominated. • The Deputation proceeded to. the Painted Cham 7 ber, to meet' that from, the Qoentnons,' and; in about eig)it or nine minutes, their Lordships returned ; \yhen the Duke of NORFOLK reported, in effeet, that they had had the 'co tieterice with the Commons, who were represtbted .by Lord. Henry Petty, and other Members, {vho had communicated a Resole -lion to their LOt*hips, that the House of Commons had. come to a vote, that the African Slave Trade was injurious to the reputation of the,Country,, and contrary to the principles of humanity, justice, .and sound policy—and that they should proceed in the next Session of Parliament to take measures with a view to the total AbOlititgi , thereof, . • SCOTCrt P.l Ejt AG E. Several Petitions were - presented by the Earl of Aboyne, Lord I.,anderdale, and' other ,Peers, from certain Peers' of Scotland, among whom were the ,Earls - of Wemys, -Lord . Sin clair, &c. as Subscribers, m ;reference, as we could collect, to the eircuMstancs of the recent creation of one of the Scotch Representative Lords a Peer of the United Kingdom ; Consequence - of which, no summonses 'being issued .for the Eledion of a new Representative Peer, Contrary.to the spirit of the Ad of Union, injurious to their rights as Peers of that part of the United. Kingdom, &c. &c. ; and praying that their Lordships would take the spine into their serious consideration, &c. The • Petitions were, for 'the present, ordered to lie' on' the Table. • • ' • After a Short conversaticin between the Earls, of LAUDERDALE, RADNOR,- and Lord HOLLAND, which seemed to originate in •some proceeding that had ob .tained during the, temporary exclusions of strangers, on former days, 'it was, the rel9vant standing order having been previou'sFf taken ,into consideration, or dered to this' etfe-t, that the time allowed by the standing orders for entering -protests, as far as re speded the trial of Lord Viscount Melville, be ex tended until Tuesday next. --- NEW MU"I'INY BILL. The Order being read, which was one of those upon which their Lordships sere summoned, far go ing into a Committee 'on the above Bill, the House resolved itself ' into the same accordingly; -Lord Walsingham in the Ch:lir. After a short '.previous conversation, of an expla natory nature, between,tho Earls of WEsTmoRLAND and SPENCER, as to the regularinode.of discussing the provision or enactment of the Bill, which it ap peared was in one of the schedules, e The Earl v; WESTMORLAND rose, and, in a speech of corisidtrable length, expressed his objet-' tions to the Clause alluded to. The NLble Earl objected to' the , Clause which went to authorize, genera* throughout 'the Army, 'enlistment for a li mited term of years, instead of:the unlimited nUm ber, which beti)re generally prevailed. He 'censured it on various grounds ; chiefly on its being not only unnecessary,. but .highly injurious to the state' 'of discipline . and well-being of the Army ; and, also, on such a general legislative provision trenching on the Royal Prerogative. The tustemary Oath intro • duced into the. Mutiny'Bill he considered of a civil nature and operation, and no way affeEting, His Ma jesty's Prerogative, r Tt ere were but two instances of an attempt of the kind being made before; one of these NC as during the Adtninist rat ion of Lord Boling broke, in 1712 and the second was moved by the late Mr. Thomas Pitt,. in the year 1750. He ad mitted the Royal Prerogative had, in some. instances, been altered, and, 'perhaps, upon just and sufficient grounds ; but it had . never been attacked in such a general and extensive manner as by the present Bill, and which was rendered the more censurable, as the attack was by a 'side wind. Qn occasions .of real necessity, no Prince bad ever shewn a' greater readiness to sacrifice considerations of prerogative to those olthe welfiire . of his subjeth. His Lordship then went into a variety of calculations, with a view to shew, that the effea of the provision would be injurious to the recruiting service; and instead. of eventually increasing,- would go. to diminish, the number,of the Army. He particularly dwelt upon Ihe peculiar circumstances of the Country, with respeEt to its distant Colonial Possessions—imwhich view, the dischatges on, the expiration o f th e t erm of years - may :prove destru&ive, and he instanced some casts Wherein, to a•considerable extent, the service' was prefemed by those who He deprecated all schemes / and ape-. cuWions, especiallr in the present state tl,e , • . country,in which measures should be c'stutou , - ly adopted, and on' the surest grounds., He cen sured any regulations which tended to introduce a state of citizenship among the soldiery ! and ope rated, as he contended that under consideration eventually would, to disorganise the Army. That the. regulation would operate injuriously, as well in . point of future economy as in every other point of view, was plain from the consideration, that sol diers, when their times were expired, instead of re entering in their own Corps, would enlist in other Regiments ; and so obtain the full bounty. After ad ducing a number of other arguments, and desCribing the comparatively advantageous and superior state it -which the Empire was found by the present Mi nisters, which he could not avoid characterising as " the zenith of its power and' glory I" the Noble Earl*concluded by moving, in the way of Amend ment, in order to obviate the provision in question, " that certain words in the Schedule A. be omitted." On the question being put, -Earl SPENCER rose, and in a speech of nearly equal length with that of the Noble Lord whore ceded him,, supported'the Bill lb its present shape, and argued for the expediency and beneficial ten dency of the el:Ause, so much the obi* of the Noble Earl's 'censure. He denied that it infringed .in the slightest degree upon the Royal PrerogatiVe— an objetlioll of the kind• was never thought of, though - various Aels of a similar kind had passed, especially in 1756, when a term of five years en listment was propoSed,. and , these expired in 1761, one of the hottest periods of the Seven. Years' War .; and since• that time frequent A6ts for Enlistment for. three or five yearS, or. during the pending Wars, .had passed the Legislature.. He did not deem' it necessary to follow the Noble Earl through his va rious calculations ; Most of them were totallyin- Vplicable. to the topic under consideration ; -and the power reserved in the schedule, for extending (11e term of service, would, he .thought, do away all objections whatcverto the measure—the adoption 'of which,- as settled in the Bill, he would most strenuously recommend their Lordships to adopt. He-, Must, of course, resist .the Noble • Earl's Arnendineut. The Earl of .IVESTITIORLAND, in explana tion, contended, that these Alas of the Legislature,' to which the Noble Secretary, had referred, were very ,different in their principle, as well as bearing and effe&, from the measure now under considera , tion, which - went to prevent the .King from enlisting a soldier on any other terries than those prescribed in the Clause. . . • Lord BOR I NGDON ~ in a short speech, supported theAenendment of his Noble Relative whb had just sat down. The Earl of CAkNAItVON supported the Bill in its present scrape. . . The Duke of Morr'raosE, in' an able and argu . it - tentative speech, supported many of the leading positions of the Noble, Earl . who opened the dis cussion. The Duke of GLOUCESTER, in a short but spirited speech, supported, the measure ; from which he felt confident of the most beneficial results,— His Highness expatiated on the inducements which the option of enlisting for limited service would hold forth to young men to enter into the Army, and described the pleasing and attractive scenes which migbt attend the return of the young soldier : into the bosom of his family, in the prime of life, after having fought the battles of his King and Country. His Highness was heard with the great est attention", and loudly cheered' from the Mini sterial side of the House. . _ Earl GROSV6TOR followed, and offered several ar guments in favour of the Bill. Earl CANiDEN spoke in support of the Amend ment. ' The Earl qf LIMERICK followcd on the same side, and in a speech of sornelengtli, delivered with his accustomed ability, opposed the measure. He spoke decidedlyin support of several of the Noble Earl's positions, who proposed the Amendment ; particularly the consideraoion of the 'Colonial Pos sessions of the Country, which placed it in t very different situation, with respeel to . its Military Sys tem, from 'that of every Country in Europe; and he also adduced some instances to shew, where the plan of enlisting for the unlimited was more pror dtietii'e in obtaining men, than ,for the limited ser -vie. :Lord KING displayed his usual talents in supporting the measure ' The Earl of HARDWICKE was incliped, , from his view of the subje&, to support the Amendment. - The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE suppOrti.,4 the Bill in its, present shape, which, in fa&, he thought ,no more militated against' the Royal Prerogative than any, of the Mutiny Bills their Lordships were in the habit of passing yearly. The-Earl of ROSSLYN, in An able speech of con siderable length, supported the Bill in its present shape. Lord 11AWKESEVRY, in a very animated and able speech; in the course of which .he.macic -ttai3!- of many arguments already before our Readers in former debates, considered the present mode and extent of *it as one entire System ;against all authority; it was a measure, idle, inexpedient,, and in a great degree desperate. The Clause introduced was not .a furtherance of the Prerogative of the Crown, but a liMitation, by which His Majesty was precluded from raising men either for a limited or a more extensive period. As a Measure Of. experi ment he had no objeaion . to giving it a fair trial, but would not have it applied as a general measure extending to the whole Army :as experiment he would offer a bounty of sixteen guineas for en listment for life, and twelve for a limited period:: gee the effe& of this; and then either adopt orre je& it, as would. be found 'expedient;, but, he again, reheated, that this present plan was not only idle and unnecessary, but desperate ,and daq . , gerous. ' Lord HOLLAND replied at some length; but after the sound, true, and genuine doctrine with which the measure 14ad already been discussed, and the able statement of an ',illustrious Personage (the Duke of Gloucester), ht did not think it tiecessari to enter at large into the Subje4l. Having adverted, to the various topics made use of in the course of the Debate, -he considered the :question to be, Nv h e thq an alteration in the Army was or wds not tie= cessary.?: Upon this there. was no. difference:- of opiniod. He adMitted a large Army was clulgerNs, to the Liberties of tae Peup ;- but, when it was ab s4:tvly necessary, it should be dune in the way most cononant -to the feelings of humanity and sound policy)._ aa a _ a _ • _ - The - Bari of 111011?./1 fel t persOna llv called on to answer some observations of. a Noble Earl (Westmorland) relating to 01.3 Artillery, who were enlisted for a limitted term ; they were known to be the best disciplined, and, from the advpntageS arising from that service, a Man considered it a'great dis grace to be dismissed. As a iVlilitary Man he must say, the opinions of General Officers alluded to could not have been taken with reference to the present situation of affairs. With respetEt to general principles, he most sincerely considered it the most. useful pro Vision" that could be adopted. • Lord MULGRAYE, at stirOe length, strongly 'de precated the principle of the Bill, particutarly as far as it related to the discharge of men in the time of War. Lard GRE ATVILLE, in a most able and convinc ing Speech, defended the measure before their Lord ships. Its leading principle s he said, had -ema nated frotnthe great mind of the Statesman w h om the Country lamented, , with whom he had" repeat edly'held converse on the subject, 'and who, until very lately, in this life, had entertained a convietion of its expediency and justice. His Lordship havino• concluded, the House divided upon the. Amend ment,--Contents, 34—Non -contents, 91—Majo rity, 57. ' The Biil then passed through the - committee,and their Lordships stand summoned tar 'Friday on the second reading.--;-Adjourhed at Three o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. k'RIDAY, JUNE 13. Sir THEOPUILUS METcALEE bfought up a Bill for inebrporating the Globe Insurance Com pany.--,Mier a few .words from Mr. Alderman PRINCEP, Sir W. CURTIS,2THI , Mr: SHAW LEFEV,i; :Es the debate on the first reading was postponed to Tuesday nest. In pursuance of a Message by the Usher of the Black Rod, the SrEAKER• went to the House of Lords ; and on his return infbrmed the House, that he had heard the Royal Assent given by Commission to several Bills (for which see our Report of the proceedings in the House of Lords). SLAVE TRADE. ' _ _ Lord HENRY PETTY, from the Bar of the House, declared that he had to report that the Lords had aareed to a Conference with the Commons, on the subject of the Abolition of the Slave Trade ; and that they had appointed the same to .take place im mediately in the Painted Chamber. . A Committee was instantly seleeled, who pro deeded to the Conference.-0a their return, Lord HENRY PETTY reported to the House, that the Committee had communicated to the Lords the Re solution of the House of Commons, on Tuesday last, and that they had left d Copy of the same with their Lordships, A Person from the Excise Office. Piesented an Ac count of the Dutiei of Excise charged and out standing, on the sth of April, 1805, and the 6th of April, 1806.=—Orderett to lie on the Table . . Mr. PLOVER obtained leave to go into the , coun try for a month, on account of his health. Sir C. PRICE presented a Petition from certain Dealers in Thread Lace - against the Thread Lace Bill.—Ordered to lie on the Table until the Report of the said Bill. Mr. FottEß, brought up a sßill for the Ere6lion of a - Jetty or,Jetties in the Port of Brighthelrbstone ; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time. • 'On the Motion of Mr. WmaxAm, an humble Address was ordered: to be presented to His Ma jesty, that he would be graciously pleased to cause a Copy of the Articles of the Treaty between His Majesty and the Ele&or, of Bavaria, in the year 1800, by which it was stipulated that Commissaries' should reside, ,on the part of Great Britain, with the subsidiary. Corps : also a variety of Papers,tending to strew the instru,StionS given to the said Commis saries, and the opinion Of the Commissioners of the Treasury thereon. The' Committee to . whom the different Malt sters'Petitions been referred, were ordered to report their observattons thereon as to them seemed proper. On the Motion Of --Mr. GRANT, there were or dered to be laid before the House a Copy of the Re port of the Committee of Dire&ors on the subjea+ of the Carliatic Debts, &c. and various Letters rela-. tine thereto. On the Motion of Mr. P. MooRE,. there were ordered .to be laid before the 'House a Copy of a Letter from the Governor of, Fort Se. George to the Chief of the Mahratta'States, dated the 1 ith of De cember, iBO 1 ; and a variety of other Letters and Papers relative to the affairs of India.. Mr. Fox brolight up a Bill to prevent from clear ing out for the African Slave TratY; Ships that had not hitherto Been employed in the same Trade.- -Read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be road a second time - ou Tiresday next. Sir J. SINCLAIR brought up the Report ,Of the Committee on the' Broad-Wheeled-Carriage Ad, which was ordered to be printed. . , • , Sit'JOHN NEwroßT,moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend several As in force' in Ireland relat ing to the Election Of Members to serve in Parlia . - ment.—Leave granted. ,Sri JOHN A' E POliTmoved for leave to bring in a Bill' for better regulating the,',Colleaion of the Duties on Spirituous Litiors in Ireland. He said, the objecct of this Bill would be to guard against the frauds of ' Revenue Officers, to remove . -certain in conveniences which .had been found in•collealing the fines upo; . l Parishes, and to make regulations respeaing the working the Still. • Mr. STEWART said, he was glad the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed to make, some, alteration . in the Law relative to the fines upon Parishes, because they had been produaive of the .greatest inconve nience. Sir JOHN STEIV4II7' said, he trusted that the Right : Hon. lkironet, would take elfe6tual care to punish collusion in the Revenue Othcey ; there cduld be no doubt that it was now prathsed to a most shamefUl extent,. some instances or which he nlntioneci t -and suggested the propriety of making j ilea transportable offence. on the Revenue ; Officer. 'Sir RAIN ATEWPOR I' said, he certainly meant to propose severe penalties upon tilt; Revenuo-Odi : ye; wh.o•sliould be guilty * of such pra6tices, but be did" not mean to go the` extent suggested by ti Hon.' Member who spoke last. " With resped to the fines ,upon Parishes; they were in 'some cases pro , - (dualive 'of inconvenience, but still great benefit was derived from them. After a few words froM Mr. rOSTEP., leave Was :given to bring in the Bill. Sir JOHN Nrwi , dat moved, Rik the A&s for the encouragement of Mines in Ireland should be entered as read ; which being done, he moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the same.—Leave granted. Sir Joni; NEtVPORT gave notice, that he should on Monday move for leave to bring hi a Bill for ap _pointing Commissioners to.inquire into the state of Schools and _Seminaries in Ireland ; and also that he should move for leave.- to bring in a Bill to amend 'the Spirit Licence At. Mr. BERNARD moved, that there be laid before the House an Account of the different Sums of Mo ney,expended on the Port Of bubliti, by the Direc tors of Inland Navigation, and 'the authority under which thesame was expended. He said, his objed in making this Motion was, to call the attention of the House to large sums of money which the Di-. reCtors of Inland Navigation had expended on the Port of Dublin, and which, in his opinion, ought to have been laid' out in improving the Inland Navi gation of the Country, f or which purpose the tno ney was originally granted by Parliament. Mr. FOSTER' said, he did not think that tho Direetors of Inland Navigation had expended any money upon the Port of Dublin ; he had never seen any works carried on. Mr. EERATARD replied, that he understood that very considerable sums had been expended for ma chinery for removing the Bar, and also for Engineers ; while many Rivers "in the interior of the Country, which might be rendered navigable at • a small ex. pence, were wholly negleEted. • Sir JOHN STEIPART said, the Dire&ors of In. land Navigation were not empowered by law to 14y out any money without' the authority of the Lord Lieutenant. It would be necessary therefore to know if they had been properly authorised to expend the money that had been stated, on the Port of Dublin. Mr. BERNARD replied, that one objet of the IViotion was, to ascertain the authoriyy under which the. DireCtors'aEted. Mr. FOSTER said, be was convinced that there had been no money expended on the Port of Dub•.. lin ; there was, indeed, a proposition to lay -Ott* 14,0001. upon it, but it was releded. Lord CASTLERE4GH said, he *as the person► who had proposed to grant the sum of 500,0001. fot the Improvement of the Inland Navigation of Ire« land ; and also for . the ImprOvement of the Port of Dublin ; both these objeets were mentioned in the Bill by which the money was granted, Sir JOHN .NEIVPORT . replied, that they cer anly were both mentioned in the Preamble of the Bill ; but in the body of the Bill there was not a single Clause that related to any thing but to Inland Navigation, . • The Motion was agreed to. Ur. Rost suggested the propriety of printing the Bill for exempting from the 4ssessed Taxes. Lord H. PETTY'S reply was totally inaudible. The SpzAKEtt observed, that it was not a common pra&ice to print a Tax Bill: . Mr. ROSE rejoined thatit vas not a Tax Bill. Mr. PEECEV4L and. Mr. VANSUTART each said a few words, when the matter was dropped. The Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on the West India Auditors' Bill having been read, LoRD HENRY PETTY, previollS to moving that the Speaker do leave the Chair, again stated the ob. jest nrthe Bill. He entered into a detail of the appointment of the CoMmission in 180, of the depntation of Mr. Bearcroft home in the succeeding year, and of the subsequent discovery of enormi ties before unsuspetcled. The Obje& of the present Bill was to supply the deficiencies in the poWers of the Commissioners,. and to g ive them th e m e ans not only of inquirin g i n t o th e existing abuses, but also of bringing up the Accounts of persons impli cated. It was at first intended that they should pass these Accounts altogether but another mode was afterwards deemed eligible. The Noble Lord at /some length examined and refuted •the various oh je6tions that had been made to/the measure by a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. Mr. ROSE admitted the advantage that had been derived from the return of Mr. Bearcroft. He con tended, however, that there had been no former in stance of the Treasury having appointed Corntnis siOners with such extensive powers, and that the kind of probationary residence of the.two Commissioners in England before they were 'sent out to the West Indies would be to them a.sinecure, Lord. H. PETTY explained. Mr. Secretary Fox contended that the situation, of the Commissioners alluded to would not be that of a sinecure. ~ • Mr. PERCEVAL argued on the impra&icability or .obtaining two men of honour and respedability to' accept the office of Commissioners resident in Eng. land, but under the condition of quitting it for - the West Indies in .two years. z. After a short explanation from Mr. Fox, the House resolved itself into a Committee, Mr. HAw. altoßN in the Chair: In the Clause appointing five, Commissioners to carry the A& into execution, two in the West In dies and three in Great Britain, and prescribing a' rotation of service at the expiration of every two years, an Amendment was proposed by Mr. PER-. CEVAL, to limit the number ,of Commissioners to three; whibh was supported by Lord Castlereagh and Mr. Rose, and opposed by Mr. Secretary Fox, Lord 'Temple, Lord Henry Petty, Mr. Wickham, and the Attorney-General. A division took place— . For the original Clause - - 91, For the Amendment - - - 41 Majority - 30 • The other Clauses of the Bill were then passed through, and the HOuse being resumed, the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. AMTo:RICAN INTERCOURSE BILL. Lord TEMPLE moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the American Intercourse Mr. PERCEVAL put it to the Noble Lord, whether, at so late au hour (11 o'clock), he would bring for witr3i so important a subjed._ . . Lord',TENlPit admitted that there would be great., weight in the sngrieftion of the Learned Gentleman,