The Sun. — London, England, 1840-01-23 00:00:00

E V ENING EDIT 10 N . RUTHVEN. As every thing That's great and difficult is done—by patient And persevering toil. You've seen a pebble Washed whiter than the fleeces round the moon, And made a thing of cost and ornament, By the untiring wave.—There's a deep moral In that small truth ; the wave, the ceaseless wave, H►nts to the mind the secrets of its energy. • • • • • • • • FINE ARTS. PORTRAIT OF PRINCE ALBERT. Messrs. Colnaghi and Puckle, of Cockspur street, have just published a half-length portrait of Prince Albert of Saxe-Gotha, which has been drawn on stone by Lane, from an original paint ing by Ross. The likeness is an excellent one, without being too flattering, and, as a , pecimen of lithography, it is one of the most carefuily finished we have seen for some time. The lights and shades of the countenance, especially of the brown, heavy hair, are defined with great skill and deli cacy. The Prince is represented in the ordinary attire of a private gentleman, without any ;tars or decorations to indicate his rank. PROPOSED NEW STREETS. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. s i n—Knowing your determination fearlessly at all times to advocate in your columns economy and justice, induces me to at; dress you on the following subject. seeing that it will be a so wing to Government or 60,000/. or 100,000/., besides pro'enting the destruction of one of the finest thoroughfares In London. A dep'utation cif gentlemen waited on Mr. Chavrner, of her Majet.y's Woods and Forests Office, Whitehall, by appointment this day, at ten o'clock, to inspect a suggested plan of Mr. W. Grimstone's, the outline of which is as follows;--T o form a crescent from the east end of Ox ford-street, to terminate facing the new street under con sideration, from Bow-street to Broad-street, to be called Victoria street ; and another crossing the said crescent, facing St. Giles's Church (to be called Albert-street), terminating in Great Russell -street, at or near the north end of George-street. This will remove the whole of that zest of infamy known as the Holy Land, St. Giles's, and be decidedly the very best property in London, forming a . wet communication with Oxford -street, Tottenham coo vt-road, Charlotte-street, and the new street proposed fro m .Bow-street to Broad -street, Bloomsbury; and at the sam e ime preserving that valuable property and conve nient tt:Noroughfare, the west end of Holborn, Broad -street, with its adjacent neighbourhood. The before-named de putation tre convinced the line of street at present pro posed to run from the east end of Oxford-street to South ampton-street, Holborn, will not only be highly injurious, but also an extravagant outlay of money, if expended east of Charlotte- , itveet. Your insertion of the foregoing observations will be pro ductive of public good, and confer an inestimable favour on your obedient servant, Jan. 22, 1840. A CONSTANT READER. INTERNATIONAL CORSET. PARIS TRIBUNAL CORRECTIONNRL.—An important trial came on for hearing before M. Pinondel, President. In this case, however, it was not a question of any collision be tween any French and English soldiers or sailors, nor of any dispute as to the pre-eminence of the ocean. The i'selligerents had neither swords nor sabres, knapsacks nor schakos, blue jackets, nor trowsers, but advanced before the tribunal enveloped in long shawls, their heads covered with elegant velvet bonnets, and without the aid of any herald at arms, it was announced that one was Madame Dumon;in, living at No. 5, Rue Vingt-neuf Juillet, and a Frenchoioman, and the other, Mrs. Farron, living at No. 1, in the same street, a living representative of the British people. Madame Dumoulin demanded 6,000 francs damages, while Mrs. Farron confined her modest demand to the sum of 1,200 francs damages. M. Ledin, the Advocate, thus stated the case :—You are called upon to give ycur decision upon one of those important questions which involves the right of patent—it is a question concerning a pair of stays ; but before en tering into a legal discussion, I will attempt to inform you of the details of the case. Mad. Dumoulin, listening to the dictates of an irresistible impulse, has for the last seven years devoted all her numerous talents to the art of stay making. A few months since she had the misfortune to lose her respected mother. Nature had endowed, Madame Dumoulin with an inventive mind, admirably adapted for the profession whic h she had chosen ; but the art of paint ing was denied to her, and she pined for the image of her beloved parent. Inspired, however, by grief and love, this lady succeeded in taking a striking likeness of her mother. It was probable that her varied talents might ereate a emplete revolution in the art of stay-making. Time was that our fair countrywomen encased their lovely persons In regions of thick-ribbed whalebone, and even steel— their cumbersome citadelaresisted all the attacks of science, but at last the manifold discomforts of this female armour felt before the skill and ingenuity of Madame Dumoulin, who invented stays which would at once give ease and elegance to the fair and fragile frames of their wearers. M. Ledin here entered into details far more creditable to his knowledge of anatomy than to his delicacy. For this invention it appeared that Madame Dumoulin had taken out a patent, but that Mrs. Farron had esta blished herself next door but one to the house, and set up a board, informing the Parisian public that she was the ! inventor of these stays. i On the other hand, Mrs. Farron declared that for the last twelve years she had been in the habit of making stays iis the manner claimed by Madame Dumoulin as a new in vention. Moreover, in the French capital nature had not b ee n bountiful in the busts which she bad accorded to the 1 fair Parisians. but Mrs. Farron had invented a stay which so pplied this much-desired deficiency. After a discussion, full of legal technicalities, the deci sion was adjourned for two months, to enable Mrs. Farron to prone that her system had been in existence prior to Madame Dumoulin's patent. CIIIIFNEY.—On Tuesday, in the Insolven Debtors' Court, an application was made in the case of the well-known jockey William Chifney, to dispense with the usual amount of sureties on bail. It was stated that the insolvent could get bail to the extent of 10,0001., as regarded freehold property, but the Court could only accept sureties on ta n g i b le P property, which could be taken under a distraint. He is in Cambridge Gaol. He had given a warrant of attorney to his \ detaining creditor, on a debt incurred before his bankruptcy. 'Ow security was given, as an act of honesty, after he had ob tain vd his certificate ; and it was feared he would not be able to give I >eil for double al: the judgment debts. It was, however, hoped, ander the peculiar circumstances of the case, that the Court would not require Mr. Chifney to include the debt on the warrant of attorney in the list of judgments. The Court seemed inclinNl to grant the application, and required an affi davit of the circ:tmstances detailed. ADDRESS TO HER MAJESTY FROM THE HIGIILAND AND AGRICULTURAL SOCIETY OF SCOTLAND. —The Highland and Agricultural Society of Scotland, at the Anniversary meeting of that most influential public body, held 01,A the 14th instant, on the recommendation of the Board of Vireetors, unanimously voted a loyal and dutiful Address to the Q ui sen,.on the happy occasion of her Majesty's marriage , a nd remiti`ul it to the Directors to prepare and present the same at th e pro ver time. There was•a very full attendance of members, consisting of tbe Duke of Argyle, the Earls of Dalhousie and Roseberry, L ant Wm. Douglas, Right Hon Sir George War render, Sir Jan:aes aardon, Sir Neil Menzies, gir Charles G. Fergusson, Sir Janes Ili. Riddell, Sir A. C. Maitland Gibson, Sir G. Macpherson Grant, ~.„Ir Charles G. S. Menteath , Barts.; Admiral Sir David Milne, K. C• B Sir John Robinson, and a numeta: in the army, and men of extensive parts of Scotland. The Right Hon. til; one of the Vice-Presidents in o ffi ce, in the ing also discussed the important subjs.- ' l e list of gentlemen of rank subject George the motion of Sir George Warrender, Bart. e e i ge Ballingall, u p operty connected with all e Earl of Dalhousie, Chair. The meet t,:ration ; and on pag „,l a resolu tion expressing their satisfaction that the Bart., had di rected their attention to it as a national object, by the esta:-4ish mant of a Board in connection with the Colonial Office, ..'''' the allotment and disposal of vacant lands in the colonies ; and that this subject has also been taken up by proprietors of the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, to whom it is a matter of the utmost importance, at a meeting held by them on the 10th current; and the Society therefore recommend the Noblemen and Gentlemen, its members, connected with the Houses of Parliament, to give their support and aid to those Highland proprietors in their application to Government on the principles approved of by this Society at their general meeting in July last. PETITION FROM FINSBURY IN FAVOUR OF FEOST AND OTHERS.—" To the Queen's most Excellent Ma jesty, the Humble Petition of the Females of London most earnestly sheweth,—That your Petitioners, deeply regretting the lamentable disturbances that have lately taken place in Isome parts of your Majesty's dominions, respectfully submit to your Majesty that a considerate and merciful course pursued. t„ awards those who have participated therein, will be most con dm rive to \ the maintenance of loyalty, and the prevention of the like disturbances. That your Petitioners humbly submit that the punishment of death is a measure from which the more elevated and Christian feelings recoil, and that the awful and in into etOc" Your Pe. T onceivably great sacrifices made by carrying such laws in terest of it l i•°n' realm, sineo.6;e7v else the Sovei•cell. cannot be productive of any beneficial results. tit.;eners, therefore, after anxiously regarding the in sentences pass High Treason. . __, A pr l a aj y esty, and all classes in your Majesty's that your Majesty will graciously exer n Prerogative of the Crown in remitting the AnJohn Frost and ethers found guilty of a your Petitioners will ever pray, &c." BIRMINGHAM R AILWAY. --On Monday even -1 .ing an inquest was held near the Watford Station, on the bo d y The r e ezias 0, f Charles Jones, one of:the c onsttbles_e_mployed . u ' pon the e hne, wl:to was killed on Saturday night; CeaCed presented a most dread ful sl oes, -waren the . I:efattillebele ,the right broken in several places. The deceased hed to atoms, the whole of thellibs broken, and ing leg also crushed and d passed • and on the night had I'm:Tidy been appointe a policeman on the line, and his duty a:vas .to watch the trains as they I' , the rails near the tunnel in queseien, about half-past ten o'clock, he was in the act of showing the ght of his lamp upon \ before d twenty minutes its while the cloven train was passing, and at the same , time the up train, which it .spiaeared bad arrive usual time, came up, and the deceased, not b eing able to get ou of the way, w as k n ocked down by the " buffer" of the carriage , . and driven upon the rails,sta ted. and the whole of the train then passed over him, crushing him in the frightful manner above Verdict—" Accidental Death." Colonel Deane Pitt, formerly of the 80th Itegi , ment, and now inspecting field officer at Leeds, is to be re- Got," l ° n M‘ I moved to the London yecruiting district, in succession to the late Colonel William Bissell Harvey, K.H ,resent Fort 111ajor oFEdinb'ir 1 1 'itt, at Leeds.— United Service 6- (,::zette. REVIVAL OF ORANGEISM.—• - , Thursday informed us, by ad • 131 '.. that the Orange else ... ' c) Gregor. Lieutenant-Colonel on ~:, e half-pay of the Royals, and at h Castle, will replace Colonel The Constiii.! i an and Editorial a f , adverti sement . i . this r.l Society has been revive, under the sanction of the opinion of Ed.; in City and Litton, Ai. MT, and Queen's Counsel, on a statement prepara " at . Ai. • 1 'rig of the District Orange Lodge of Cork, held at the : *. mei ''''`, nut Rooms on Friday the 1 ' C.',umbe T. \ • SUbUlith. ‘‘.. i nd advic.*- - .., to that bright legal 10th of January, 1840," and luminary for hip, sage direction Southern R eporter. •IIMINP". 11, 1 111111k 7 ".""*"....1."1"11417 == ."...""" . 7 " 4 4 , • . . SECOND EDITION. SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. COMMON COUNCIL.--(THIS DAY.) (Continued from our First Edition.) Mr. Alderman WHITE—He maintained that had Lord John Russell pursued a different course to what he had done, he would have been a traitor to his historical name and the prin ciples he professed. He believed there was now a confederacy against popular rights ; and he was afraid the Judges had allowed their political opinions to influence their judgments. Although he would trust the Judges with his person and pro perty, yet he would not trust them with the meanest of his po litical rights any more than he would the Bench of Bishops.— ( Oh, oh.) Mr. DAVISON rose to order. He' would ask whether it was fit and proper that the conduct of the Judges, who merely administered the law, should be thus animadverted upon ?—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. Alderman WHITE—The Judges and their decisions were in collision with the House of Commons, and therefore were in collision with the people. It became necessary, then, to in quire into their powers—ay, and their principles ; and he would ask what were their political predilections? How many of them (he knew there were some) were members of the Carl ton Club ?—( Cries of " Oh, oh !" and " Order, order.") __ The LORD MAYOR must call the Hon. Member to order. He hoped his good sense would induce him to refrain from such observations. Mr. TAYLOR — Anything that is said against the Judges will only lead every body to admire them the more.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman WHITE—I have said nothing against the Judges.—( Great laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh, oh.") Mr. Alderman Ha ampa—That only shows my hon. friend does not know what he has been saying.—(Laughter.) Mr. Alderman WHITE concluded by saying that the Judges were men' with passions like themselves, and that might be some excuse for their conduct.—( Hear, hear.) He thanked them for the attention with which they had listened to him, and he should not have occupied so much of their time, had he not been interrupted. Mr. PEWTRESS thought, that if the opinion of the Judges were to be acquiesced in, the doors of the House of Commons as well as the door of that Court might be as well closed.— ( Hear, hear.) He very much esteemed their worthy Sheriffs, and he regretted that the House of Commons had not brought itself in conflict with the real parties. ( Hear, hear.) Sir PETER LAURIE would make but a few observations. Ike thought the House of Commons was not worth petitioning.— The House of Commons that passed the Penny Post Act was the most contemptible Assembly that ever existed.—(Laugh. ter, and cries of " Oh.") Was the law of the land to be usurped by one branch of the Legislature ? The House of Commons was now in a cleft stick, and he hoped that Court would not help them out of the difficulty, and would not go before them with any petition.—( Hear.) Mr. JONES cordially supported the resolutions. Mr. ANDERTON did not consider that this was a question between the House of Commons and the Sheriffs of London merely, but that it was a question in which all the Sheriffs of the United Kingdom were concerned and most deeply in terested. He should vote for the resolutions that had been proposed; but he hoped that, if the Sheriffs were not liberated in a few days, the people of England would take the bull by the horns.--( Hear, hear.) He trusted that Court would set the example, and would petition the Queen to dis solve the Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) The great Lord Bur leigh had said that if ever England was ruined it would be through the instrumentality of the House of Commons. That House was now endeavouring to bring the laws of the country—which every body venerated—into disre pute.—( Cheers.) They were endeavouring to take from the Crown the right of issuing processes, and the right of executing them. He concluded by expressing his approbation of the resolutions, and if they had even gone further, he would have supported them. Mr. Alderman COPELAND hoped that the petition would be deferred. If he were the Lord Mayor, and he said it with all humility, he would let the citizens of London have an op portunity, in Common Hall, of expressing their opinion on this subject—(Hear, hear.) He considered the proceedings of the House of Commons on this subject had done more to strike at the root of the independence of the Judges, of Trial by Jury, and the liberty of the subject, and all that Englishmen held dear as birthrights, than an act perpetrated by the most tyrannical power.---( Cheers.) He lamented to see a Minister of the Crown, backed by the Attorney-General, retrograde, as Lord John Russell had done, from the bold front which he assumed on the first night of the Session, when he stated unequivocally that it was their determination not to punish one party merely, but that if the House of Commons should state it was a breach of privilege, to punish all parties impli cated. He (Alderman Copeland) had told the Noble Lord that he would not dare follow up that statement.—(Cheers. ) He honoured the Judges, he honoured the Sheriffs ; and he would tell his brethren of the Corporation, that if they had witnessed, as he had, the sympathy shown their worthy Sheriffs by the first men of the land, they would be delighted with the public spirit that had manifested itself.—( Hear, hear.) He was de cidedly against petitioning, but he would vote for the resolu tions. —( Hear, bear. ) The LORD MAYOR said that when he appointed the Court for that morning he had a great wish that the subject should be discussed calmly and temperately. The • Court must recollect that whatever they did in this matter would go forth to the whole world. The Sheriffs were well advised, and if that Court would adopt the same course which the Court of Aldermen had done—not take any steps at present—he thought they would act wisely. He thought the Members of that Court had shown that the Sheriffs were placed in a most enviable position.—(Hear, hear.) He would, of course, be ready to give every attention to what any Gentleman might have to say, but he did hope the discussion would be at once closed.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman THOMPSON thought, after the opinion he had heard, that the least prudent course would be to adopt the suggestion made to the appointment of a Watching Committee, and he would, therefore, not persevere with his proposition to petition.—( Hear, hear.) After a desultory discussion between a few of the members, and a long speech from Mr. Wire in reply, the resolutions were put and carried unanimously. A Ward Committee was then appointed, including all the Aldermen present, to co-operate with the Committee of this Court of Aldermen. Mr. WIRE proposed that the foregoing resolutions be signed by the Town Clerk, and presented to the Sheriffs by the Lord Mayor, attended by the whole Court. The RECORDER observed that the place of custody of the Sheriffs was a peculiar one—it was within the pre cincti of the Palace, and also within the precincts of the House of Commons. Now, without wishing to give any opinion as to what course that Court ought to adopt, he would merely suggest to them the difficulty they would meet with in gaining admission, if it should be refused, the Sherif . ; being in actual custody. Besides the whole Court could not get into a room eight feet square, which he believed was the size of the apartment in which the Sheriffs were confined.— (A laugh. ) It was ultimately agreed that a Deputation only, instead of the whole Court, to be selected from the Committee appointed, should attend the Lord Mayor, and that Mr. Remembrancer should ascertain from the Sheriffs when it would be convenient for them to receive the visit. The Resolutions were ordered to be advertised in the Morn ing and Evening Papers and the other business having been disposed of, the Court adjourned. QUEEN'S BENCH.-(THIS DAY.) IN THE CASE OF THE SHERIFFS OF LONDON. In the course of the morning, Mr. RICHARDs ap plied to the Court to ask if their Lordships would permit him to bring forward the motion which he had been about to make yesterday. Lord DENMAN—This is not the only Court in which a motion can be made. Mr. Iticumtos said this was a motion affecting the liberty of the subject. Lord DENMAN—We have appointed our times for hearing motions, but if you have no opportunity of moving in any other Court we will hear you here. Mr. RicHARDS did not think he could make this motion in any other Court. As the affidavits had been sworn here he could not, without fresh affidavits, move in another Court. His motion would be to discharge the Sheriffs from the custody in which they were at pre sent, and to which the affidavits had been sworn. Lord DENMAN—We shall proceed with the new trials to-day until four o'clock, and we will hear 3ou then. At 4 o'Clock, Mr.RICHARDS applied for a habeas corpus, to be directed to Sir W. Gosset, the Sergeant-at-Arms, to bring up the bodies of the High Sheriffs of London and Middlesex, in order that the cause of their impri 11.0nMent might be inquired into. These gentlemen were now prisoners, but the affidavit set forth that they verily believed they had done nothing to incur the displeasure of the House of Commons, except vhat they had done in obedience to the Queen's writ issued from this Court. The Learned Counsel then read the affidavit of the Sheriffs, stating the facts of the case, which are already known to the public. The affidavit also set for.h the resolutions of the House of Commons relative to the Sheriffs, and the Sheriff's also stated that they verily believed they were imprisoned solely for what they had done iu obedience to the orders of the Court, and that they would not have been committed to custody if they had consented to pay over the money to the Messrs. Hansard, and that they had seen no warrant authorizing their com mitment. Lord DENatax said, that without adverting at all to the affidavit, there could be no reason why the writ of habeas corpus should not issue, so that the bodies might be brought up, and the cause of the commitment inquired into. The fact of their being imprisoned was sufficient to entitle them to that. Mr. Ricca ARDS then stated he had a further application to make to their Lordships, which was for an attach ment against Sir Wiliiam Gossett for daring to im prison the officers of that Court, and obstruct them in the execution of their duty. Lord DENMAN—We cannot listen to that applica tion until we see what the return will be to the writ of habeas corpus. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS FROM THE DAILY PAPERS OF THIS DAY. (From the Globe.) Sir Robert Peel's declaration of Monday was an hu miliating acknowledgment of the distrust of his fol lowers. The existence of that distrust has long been matter of notoriety ; but it has never been yet so clearly shown to the country as by the present pre caution a,ainst its operation for a single week. It is now clear that the party distrust Sir Robert so much, that it is necessary for him to commit himself to its policy a week before he can show his course by vote or speech in the regular course o f d e b ate. Si r J o h n Bul lee.% notice appeared so much at variance with the usual course of Sir Robert Peel, and the caution of his cha acnaturally gave r i se at first to suspicions that e t r aronet was acting o n hi s own h ea d, land without concert with his leader. B u t th e cha rtil etha worthyt it very n ',tete' . of that gentlem an convinced all who knew any -1 ' u'itn that &ugh could not be the case. He --o. moderato of the Conservative -- ,, ntary career be has ,tioular thing ot is really one of the n,,,_ party ; and during his Par►iai.... been generally considered as Sir Robert s country-gentleman. We are therefore quite ready to believe that the step has been taken with the full I consent of Sir Robert : that it was not taken without the fullest consideration and deliberate concurrence of the leaders of the party ; and that Sir Robert, finding the motion must be made, placed it in Sir John's hands as the fittest person to make it. (From the Standard.) Another night has been wasted upon the deplorable case of privilege. Upon a motion by Mr. Thomas Duncombe, the warrants for the late c ommittals were ordered to be laid before the House, after a short re sistance by Lord John Russell. The motive for this resistance will appear when it is known that the Attor ney-General boasted to have so framed the warrants as to conceal the particular offence for which the parties were committed, lest the Court of Justice should take cognizance of it. Let us understand this proceeding. Either the offence pu nished is known or it is not known. If it is known the Courts of Justice must take cognizance of it upon application, whatever the terms of the war rant, for complete notoriety is judicial knowledge, as the text writers on the Roman law, and on our own law, admit. If it is not known, what is the use of the punishment inflicted ? The effect of example is the only justification for punishment ; but the penalty inflicted without known offence affords no example ; it appears, and it is, but a barren act of capricious cruelty. How, indeed, is any one to know that Messrs. Evans and Wheelton are not the victims of such an act ? There is an order of the House of Commons forbidding to tell of what these Gentlemen are accused, and the Attorney- General boasts to have craftily contrived the warrant so as to preserve the secret. This is to maintain the dig nity ! of the House of Commons. (From the Courier.) We can have no sympathy with such a person as Stockdale, between whom and Mr: Daniel O'Con nell there would however appear, in some respects, such a conformity of tastes and pursuits, that the bitter and personal rancour of the " beggarman" against the other " pauperised person," as in his own acknowledged letter the former styles himself, can wily be accounted for on the vulgar adage that " two of a trade can never agree." But, as in the similar case of Wilkes, it may be said that from evil may arise good, and whatever the true motives of Stockdale, con ceding for the argument that they were as worthless and mercenary, as freely represented in the House of Commons, we must still hold that, wittingly or not, his prosecution of those honourable and really guiltless tradesmen, the Hansards, will result in signal benefit to the nation. The more the extent and consequences of the uncontrolled privileges assumed and now battled for by the House are investigated, the more subversive will they be found of the rights of the subject, and the peace and good order of society. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. (THIS EVENING.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. There being only 36 Members present at Four o'Clock, the House adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF LORDS. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woo'- sack at Five o'Clock. The Clerk of the Hanaper in Ireland brought up ti e writ showing the election of Edward Baron Crofton in the room of Earl Kingston deceased, as a representati% e Peer in the kingdom of Ireland. TII SUN. LONDON'. THURSDAY, JANUARY 23. MM. PRINCE ALBERT. Prince Albert's Naturalization Bill was brought i p from the Commons. SPAIN. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY begged to ask a question of the Noble Viscount opposite relative to the late Spanish pacification. He desired to know if the officers in the army of Lord John Hay were parties to the Bergara Convention, and if the British Government were party to it ? Secondly, lie wished to know if the Bergara Convention was in the possession of the Government, and if it was their intention to lay the Convention on the table of that House ? Thirdly, he wished to know if the Noble Viscount had any information to lay before that Hous to show the satisfaction of the Spanish Government and the Basque Provinces ? Lord MELBOURNE'S reply was at first totally inaudible. We, at the close, gathered that he would have no objection to produce the Convention. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he would reserve himself till then. JAMAICA. On the motion of Lord REDESD ALE certain re turns were ordered relative to Jamaica. BUENOS AYRES. The Earl of STRANGFORD asked if the Govern ment were aware of the late arrival in Paris of a Deputy from the Government of Monte Video, offering to place itself under the French Government, as the lonian Isles were under the British Government. Lord MELBOURNE was not aware, but would make inquiries. FINANCE. The Earl of RIPON said he was desirous to ask her Majesty's Government for some information upon a matter that he regretted to say was not noticed in her Majesty's Speech. Nothing appeared to him of greater or more paramount importance than the question of finance.—(Hear, hear.) He was afraid that the reason why it was not noticed was in consequence of the Government being unable to state anything that might be satisfactory to the Parliament or the people. He felt so strongly upon the unsatis factory state of their finances, that he did not feel him self justified in withholding what he had to state upon the subject, or at least by abstaining from giving her Majesty's Government an opportunity of enlightening the House upon that subject. He considered that it was so important a topic as to require any arguments from him to prove its importance. He thought it quite un necessary to waste their Lordships' time in estiblishing the fact of how much the prosperity, the power, and the safety of the empire depended upou the wholesome state of the financial department. Those formidable oils which result from the opposite state o: things were already clearly established. These were truisms which required no demonstration from him. It was nevertheless at all times the duty of the Legislature to'give every information of the condition in which the finances were, and the more so because an unsound and unsatisfactory arrangement came on by very slow means Sanguine minds might think these casual accidents, and that all will become right in time. Those who were careless and indifferent as to what might happen after their time, might continue indifferent to this subject ; and those who knew nothing about it might not feel any anxiety at all in (a question, of the merits of which they were ignorant.—(Hear.) But this did not absolve Parliament from the duty of paying the most vigilant attention to this important subject. What he was now about to state was not with the view of imputing blame to any persons or to any party. He was net actuated by any hostile spirit against an) one, but he felt it his bounden duty to state that he felt persuaded that we were on the verge of an un satisfactory and an unsound system of finance, and lie should be wanting in the execution of his duty if he did not call the attention of their Lordships to this subject. He would now state the facts which had led him to come to so painful a conclusion. Their Lordships would recollect that when the Noble Duke (Wellington) behind him was at the head of the Treasury, certain laws were passed abo lishing the system of the Sinking Fund, and pointing out a new and superior system, which was entitled to admiration on account of its judicious simplicity. Instead of giving a grant for the Sinking Fund, whatever might be the state of the finances, it directed that only such a sum would be applied in each quarter as amounted to a quarter of the bona fide surplus in each antecedent quarter. At that time the sur plus was sufficient to enable his Noble Friend to appropriate a considerable additional sum to the diminution of taxation. That alteration contemplated the possibility of there being a surplus, but he felt con vinced that his Noble Friend never contemplated that it should be part of the foundation of the financial sys• tern of the country that there should not be a bone fide surplus. He had asked his Noble Friend at the time of this alteration if he had calculated what amount of surplus he might then expect, and if he intended it to be part of his system to have a surplus, and his Noble Friend had replied, that it was part of his system. For the five or six years following this alteration, they had had, with the exception of one year, a regular surplus, and, according to the regulations laid down, the surplus was applied in various ways. They had, at the same time, the benefit of the surplus for the Sinking Fund, and the benefit of a considerable reduction of taxation. But there was now no surplus, and not merely so, but a considerable difficulty, and what created alarm in his mind was, that he could not see any prospect of getting out of the vicious system of borrowing money during peace, to carry on the expenditure of the country. It appeared, from papers laid on the table, of the House—last year the excess of expenditure over income in the year ending the sth of April, 1838, was 1,420,0001., and in the year ending in April, 1839, 400,0001. being on the whole about 1,900,0001., and, ac cording to estimates laid before Parliament last year, the expenditure would exceed the income of the Government in the year about to end in April, 900,000/. ; since then additional expenses had been incurred, which bad not been calculated, and for the sear ending the sth April next the surplus expenditure would be found to have increased not less than one million, so that for three successive years there was a clear, avowed, and unmitigated excess of expenditure over in come, and he thought he should be able to show that there were no grounds for supposing they would be able to extricate themselves from that perilous system. It would be said these were fanciful fears of his, that he did not rely on the resources of the country and the elasticity . of those resources, and their power to lift it above Its difficulties.—(Hear.) He to do with them, and was the last person hoped he did not undervalue t heir resources, !r ,ould be shown this e x p en di ture th e y so to do, but 1... _ he had had were habitually incurring in time of peace arose from a deficiency in our resources, his apprehensions would be lessened, because that deficiency might be caused by transient circumstances ; but that was not the case, for it appeared the revenue was no less than 1,600,0001. more than in 1836, which satisfactory circumstance showed this evil had not arisen from the resources of the country not being worked out. He admitted that, and therefore it seemed somewhat paradoxical for him to say that he feared it was a more alarming state of the revenue on that ac count, and he would tell them why. If that sufficiency had not arisen from any falling off in the revenue of the country, it must have arisen from an increase of the expenditure. He found that the excess of the expenditure for the present year, as it was estimated last year was, as he had already said, 3,200,0001. over the amount of the sum expended in the year 1830. Now, if it could be proved to him that the necessity for that increase of expenditure so enormous in amount existed (as to its object that was another matter to which he would advert by and bye. If it was shown to him that increase was owing to any carelessness, or profusion, or any other cause of that sort exclusively, and he did not mean to say that it was liable to any of these imputations, he should feel com paratively comfortable, because he should have no hesitation in relying upon the vigilance of the House of Commons, and he would trust to their exercising such a rigorous scrutiny into the expenditure, that there would be no doubt of their putting a speedy stop to it. But the fact was, the expenditure was increasing ; and that the increase had placed them in dpredieament from which they could not escape. In fact he believed it was impossible for them to escape from it. He would call their Lordships' attention to what had occasioned a very considerable portion of it. 600,0001. or 700,000/. had been occasioned by the ad ditions made to the public debt within the last few years. That addition was made in two ways, partly by the funding of Exchequer bills, which always oc casioned a small increase in the expenditure, but not much, and partly on account of the interest. Tile deficiency-of past years had been wholly made up by borrowing money, for which interest was to be provided, and if it was not to be provided for by any new taxa tion it must necessarily fall upon the aggregate re sources of the country. The mode in which the largest addition had been made to the debt of the country arose from the operations carried on in the year 1836, when the great measure of the emancipation of the negroes, at an expence of twenty rnilions of money. He (the Earl of Ripon) was a party to that measure, and if it was to be done over again, he would most willingly become a party to it, because he considered it a wise, a politic, and a humane act ; and, moreover, he believed the question was in such a state that the act was one of inevitable necessity.—(Hear.) They could not however help paying for it, and. that was one of the items which had added to the expenditure of the coun try. Now of that 3,200,0001. excessive expenditure over the year 1836, a very considerable portion had been oc casioned also by an augmentation of the expense of the army, the military, and the Ordnance, and he should like to ask any one who thought ho could look forward (and any one who could look forward for the next six months with certainty must be a bold man), he should like to ask any one who thought he could look forward beyond the present moment, to stand up and demonstrate that there was any reason to think that they could curtail any one of these expenses.—(Hear, hear.) Their Lordships would recollect that last year, after the estimates had been presented to the other Honse of Parliament, there arose, unfortunately, a state of circumstances which compelled Government to have re sourse to the painful duty of asking for an additional 4 -rant of 5,000 men. What were the grounds on which Government did so?—The internal state of the country. He did think that there was no man tsho had watched the progress of events since that time, who could say that similar circumstances might not soon make it ne cessary again to have recourse to a similar demand. Ireland, it had been said, was now in a state of perfect peace, but in a state which made its tranquillity depen dant on a contingency—which contingency was no thing but the continuance :in office of her Majesty's present Ministry—a tranquillity which depended 1 on such a fact as that—on the fact whether her Ma jesty was to exercise her prerogative in naming her ad visers, was one which might be undermined by the snap of a finger. There was nothing in this which could enable them to reduce their army. _He was iware that the military force had been diminished in Ireland, and that part of it had been brought over to this country. It was forgotten, that though a portion of the regular army had been withdrawn from Ireland, they had added to the constabulary force there, which was in itself an army, and which was, perhaps, more effec tual than any other, for the purpose of preserving tran quillity. The number of the constabulary had been in creased, and it was possible for them to diminish their military force. This country had a large army in Canada, and he was most happy in believing that the circumstances of that country had improved, and Ghat there did not exist the same danger of out break there as there did at a late period,—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was aot the immediate disposi tion of the people of Canada which caused his anxiety as to the state of that country, and though it was to be hoped that those questions which had so , ong been pending there should soon be satisfactorily settled, and though some measures might be goin g on which might lead to such a settlement , there was a part of her Majesty's Speech ; from the throne which did not satisfy him. There was something about the neces sity of settling the question. It was stated that it must be settled. There was something, however, in the feet ngs of a high spirited nation which might make them feel hurt at such allusions. There was another question which involved great difficulties—it was the boundary question pending between this country and America. There was also another boundary question 'which might soon add to those difficulties ; he alluded to the boun flary of the district westward of the Rocky Mountains, which might give rise to new discussions between the two countries.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It was now settled by a treaty, but that treaty would expire in twelve months. He had no jealousy of the American Government; God forbid that he should do othervvise than believe that they were disposed to main Lain the most friendly relations towards the Governmeni of this country, but those grounds of discussion mus arise ; they were in existence now, and of course ren dered it naturally imprudent for us to reduce our at my in that quarter. No country had such an immensity of foreign possession as we had, but throughout the whole, could any man put his hand upon one and say that there was too much garrison. On the contrary, he believed that many of them were too weak. Circumstances might arise! which would imperatively demand an increase of our army abroad, and so certain as those circumstances did arise, if not directly, certainly indirectly, they would demand an increase of the army at home, otherwise it would be impossible to keep up that system of relief.— (" Hear, hear," from the Duke of Wellington.) which was necessary in order to keep the minds of men at ease by knowing that they were not banished from their country for ever. Then, with respect to the many. Great complaints had been made last year re specting the proceedings of the Admiralty, which were positively denied by that department, and it was said that ships were building, stores being laid in, and ships being put in commission, but all natu rally leading to an increased expense, and the Go vernment :complained of the great difficulty they had in inducing the other House of Parliament to grant them sums of money for the purpose. He believed that those complaints w ell were founded, and that m similar Lcoplainta might be thade_ by, every , - Go vernment that had been in. office since the ' peace. He did not wish to' keep up an extraordinary force in the time of peace, but it was necessary to be prepared for any contingency. He, for one, was not so much afraid of the resources of Russia as many other people were, but s till, when it w as known that they were in a state o f g reat activit y ,—when it was known that these r esources were so g reat, and in a s tate of such forwa rdness, and that the y mi g ht th a t was not t o out of mind. Then with respect to France : a report had been made a t e o h which it was very reasonable Louis Phili pp e should adopt and the Cha mbers would sanction ; but that did no t make it an o b j ect of less solicitude to this country. They wou ld be blindindeed if the y treated the course adopted 13) the French ho , with respect to their bravery wit h so much indifference as to say t ap e pli F ed ren h cl o i st Governmentilityat be any left time, was a thi ng containin g p ropos i t i ons they would not notic e it. He ailed on th em to t hi n k, and if the Government and Parliament thought of it effectually, he, for his part, would entertain but little alarm. Then as to the United States of America. The American fleet was found stationed everywh e re. — (Hear, hear.)— But what right had this country- - to complain of that ; and without imputing designs or showing any unre asona bl e j ea l ousy, lousy, that fact justified him in coming to the con clusion (and he could not come to any other), that it was not possible, in the present state of things, for this country to diminish the present enormous expenditure with respect to her navy Then, as to th e un i n t e lli g ibl e state or things that existed in the government of China. Nothing had been laid on the table of Parliament with respect to the policy of the Chinese Government, nei ther had the House an y information as to what had occasioned these differences, wbot were the views of the Government, or what was the nature of the steps they had taken or intended to take with respect to it. But it was quite clear it had caused an interruption to our trade. Nobody could say how long it might last, or what consequences might result, but it undoubtedly was an interruption to a most important branch of the commerce of the whole country. It was a question involving some serious principles of commerce—of ruin to the merchants, and inconveni ence to the East India Company—besides involving the los s o f three millions of money and the prosperity of the tea-trade, the enhancement in the price of which arti cle, and the consequent decrease in its consumption, must necessarily lead to a great defalcation in the revenue. w;s`.'~t v..,, I In the midst of all this there was another question cal culated to produce in its consequences great alarm as respected the revenue. He alluded to the new Post-office regulations, and whatever might be their probability of ultimate success, he would not now venture on or prophecy on the subject, though he would express his conviction that it was a most ill-timed experiment, nor was there anything in the state of our finances to warrant such an experiment, in the absence of any plan to meet the possi'Jle deficiency. It was there that Parliament had given a sort of pledge to supply any deficiency that might arise but he did not consider that sufficiently satisfactory-, be cause that pledge did not apply to any other deficiency than that jarising from the Post-office, and offered no consolation with r.f!rence to the three millions which had occurred in the last three years, nor could he see anything in that pledge to prevent the great evil of a declining revenue in the time of peace. Those were the considerations that appeared to him to follow naturally from the facts that he had called their Lordships' attention to.—(Hear, hear.) He could not suggest any remedy. He bad no right to suppose that any suggestion would be listened to. If he bad attracted the attention of those who were better able to deal with the subject, he only hoped that dis cussion would produce good effects. The papers he had alluded to were the statements of the net income for the last five years. The funded and unfunded debt tor the same period, and the regulations issued since the Ist September, with respect to the reduction of the debt. Viscount MELBOURNE then rose, and said lie was sure that the Noble Earl who had just spoken was actuated by no other motive than that of principle.—( Hear.) The subject which had been alluded to was certainly one of the most paramount im portance to the country. He (Lord Melbourne) cer tainly concurred in the principles of his Noble Friend, and in the main facts that he had stated. He entirely agreed in the wisdom of the slaking fund measure adopted during the Administration of the Noble Duke. He also entirely agreed that it was not a satisfactory state of the financial affairs to have a clear admitted deficiency, But the Noble Earl further considered it a right precept always to expect an increase. Now he (Lord M.) did not entirely agree in that. And he rather thought that when the deficiency was but small it was not wise to burden the country with any extraordinary exactions, but to trust to its natural resources. Still it was impossible to deny that a deficiency, year after year, increasing, was in a state of things to which the country must boldly and decidedly apply itself. At the same time, be felt, that in financial, as in all other matters, boldness, and confidence,and courage,were the best opponents to danger, and that it was not well al ways to adhere slavishly to rule. His Noble Friend, the Noble Earl, stated that the deficiency arose, not so much from any defalcation or falling off in the revenue—not by any failure in the productive power of the country, but from temporary causes from which the country might still recover. Still, it was not to be denied that the expenses of the counts y had been long growing in a great degree, and the causes which, he agreed with his Noble Friend there was no reason for hoping would: soon be be speedily diminished or obviated.—( Hear, ; bear.) His Noble friend has gone through a great many sub jects which he (Lord Melbourne) did not think it ne cessary to follow; but unquestionably from the cases he had stated, he did not fairly see any proba bility of any Government greatly to diininisl: the expenses either of the military or the naval port. of the country. They have increased very much sine, the year 1816, at which time they were very low ; it could not be denied that there have been growing dif ficulties to account for its increase. He did not fear or apprehend from all the arguments of his Noble Friend, which he (Lord Melbourne) did not mean to contravene, that he took any unfair view of the question. But he trusted that it was not calcu lated to exc'te alarm or promote danger. From those circumstances which did exist, he had already shown it was not po ss ibl e , w i t h a v i ew to the safety of the em pire, to cause any reduction—that tranquillity wilt in those establishments, or in the exigencies of them, unq uest i ona bl y it is hoped there will not be the same demand for the great establishment , which it was necessary to keep up. With respect to Ireland, he had hopes that that tranquillity which the Noble Lord had doubted was fullyestablislnd yet he (Lord Melbourne) had every reason to suppose not be shaken—at the same time he saw no possibi lily of diminishing rapidly the military force in Canada With respect to the boundary question, considering the course of proceeding adopted by the American Go vernment, in which he placed entire confidence, he cer Wilily entertained the strongest hope that it would he brought to an amicable termination. It was cer tainly true that the naval force of foreign powers had, as might naturally have been expected grown and increased, and although we were not called upon to keep a force equal to the whole of the other navies in the world, yet certainly this circumstance called for an adequate increasc of our naval force. The Noble Lord had adverted to a question of great difficulty, and in doing so he had abstain from using any terms that might be likely to increase it—( Hear, hear.) In his reply, therefore he should cautiously abstain from the use of aay expressions, which, under the circumstance, might b, considered unnecessary and misplaced—he meant the question of China. Undoubtedly a crisis bad taker place there which, considering the relations be tween the Chinese and European nations bad beet, often thought likely to occur. He was not prepared to undervalue the difficulties of this crisis, for he thought that it was fraught with all those commercial difficul ties, and also with many of those financial consequences that had been alluded tolby the Noble Lord. Th. Noble Lord had dwelt upon the loss that was likely to occur to the revenue in consequence of the Biti which had been passed in the last Session of Parliament for reducing the duties of Postage. A large deficiency of the revenue had on all hands been anticipated as a consequence of the adoption of that measure. He would state the plan had been adopted bona fide by her Majesty's Government and notwith. standing what had been stated in a pamphlet which', ho had seen of a faithfuld Counsellor of th, Crown, he could assure their Lordships that the measure had been adopted bona fide, and no with with the idea that it would be throws out by the opposition of Noble Lords opposite, Tha Faithful Counsellor of the Crown, acting upon his owl lively impressions, had taken the promptings of his own imagination for a reality. This was often the case with persons of a lively imagination, and there was no more pregnant source of error than for persons to fancy they were acquainted with the motives of others and acting on this as:on a certainty. The Noble Lon' had said, that although the House of Commons wa pledged to make up the deficiency arising from the Post office alterations, yet that pledge did not extents to ether deficiencies. He begged leave to say. that whether the deficiency arose from th, Post-office prefect, or any deficiency, he should not ask for any express pledge ; he felt confident both with respect to that and every other deficiency that might arise. He felt fully confident that the energies o 1 the country—that the patriotism of the House of Com mons and of its constituencies—that a due regard to th, fidelity of contracts, the honour of the country, ant her station among nations, would be amply sufficient t( induce them to meet the financial difficulties o' the country, boldly and firmly, whatever they might, and i❑ such a manner as should b adequate, and suited to the occasion, whatever the oc might be, that should arise. With respect to any de ficiency that might arise by the adoption of that measure for which they had distinctly and expressly - pledged themselves, be could not think that the Noblt Lord, had done other than .his duty in calling thus early in the Sessions the attention of their Lordship, ' to a matter of such importance. He per fectly admitted the reasoning of the Noble Lord. We perfectly rdmitted the greater part of his facts Unquestionably he saw difficulties in the present posi tion of the country in that respect, and uuless the coun try was prepared to exert itself, and maintain its place among the nations, be felt full confident that the energies and resolutions of the coun try would carry it through its present difficulties.— (Hear, hear.) The motion was then agreed to. Ths returns were then agreed to. After the presentation of a few petitions, the House adjourned. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JeN. 22. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. CARTWRIGHT- presented a petition from certain inhabitants of Lambeth, praying for the increase of church accommodation in Lambeth. Mr. WALLACE presented a petition for the im provement of the town of Leith. Mr. WARD presented a petition from the inhabi tants of Sudbury, in the county of Suffolk, on behalf of John Thorogood, a prisqner in Chelmsford gaol for non-payment of Church-rates, and praying the House to pass measures for their abolition. Mr. WALLACE presented a petition in favour of an amendment in the PRIV Glsgow and Ayr Railway Bill. ILEGE, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL begged leave to oppose the motion of his Right Hon. and Learned Friend. It could not be supposed that he (the At torney-GenerJ) had any feeling of hostility to the party then implicated. He merely k new of that gentleman that he had every reason to believe that he was the attorney who had issued the writ against the Messrs. Hansard that it was he who had filed the declaration, and that he had conducted the a ction in every stage after uavnig known the resolutions of the House, and while he must have been aware that he was violating their privileges. Under these circumstances they had only one course to pursue, according to precedent and to principle. Unless they would abandon their privileges, the attor- ney must be committed.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") If the attorney were to be allowed to bring fresh actions, why the very object of committing Stockdale would be frustrated.—(Hear, hear.) It might be hoped that when the attorney was committed his punishment would operate as a warning to others.—(Hear, hear.) Thee, as to the precedent, thei e were many, in both Houses, of committals of attorneys. And the Committee of 1771 expressly directed that course to vindicate the privilege of the House. What sign of repentance had they given for what they had done ? or what reason had the House to suppose that they would not persist in the course which they had hitherto pursued? Did the Right Hon. Gentleman give any sign of regret for these breaches of privilege ? Or had the Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench expressed an intention of following a different course.—(Loud cheering.) He had not been in Court that morning, but if that manifestation of feeling had taken place which was alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman, he could not contemplate it without feelings of alarm, because if they trusted their privileges to Westminster Hall, and Westminster Hall was unanimously against them, what was the situation of the House of Commons ? For not only the present Judges, but the bar (from► whom future Judges must be selected), were decidedly against their privileges—(Cheers)—and this was brought forward as an argument why they should now cease from pursuing the vindication of them. There was no room for hesitation, and they would stultify their proceedin gs if they were now to falter.—(Loud cheering.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had made an observation respecting the warrant of commitment. He (the Attorney-General) had not seen that warrant, but if it did not express the grounds of the commitment he the more approved of it, and would take upon him• self the responsibility of adopting that course. The Right Hon. Baronet said that if it set out the nature of the contempt committed properly, it could not be noticed by any Court. So said all the Judges, except Holt, who denied that such was the ease, and Lord Denman, who reserved to himself the right of judging whether it was a breach of privilege or not. If he had entire confidence in the Judges in matters of privilege, he should not hesitate a moment in setting forth the nature of the contempt— ( Cheers from the Opposition)—but he had no hesita- tation in declaring in his place in Parliament, that he. had not confidence in the Judges in deciding matters of privilege.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) It was therefore the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentle man, the Member for Ripon, that the Court of Queen's 13..2nch bad come to an erroneous opinion on that ques tion. And such was the opinion of all the legal Mem- bers of that House, with the exception of his Hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich. He (the Attorney- General) knew the hardships of following the prc- course. The Sheriffs well knew What course could be _ pursued ; Mr. Stockdale well knew it. and the public all knew the grounds on which they proceeded. It was a mere technical objection that had acen made—a mere technical objection wholly irrespec tive of the merits of the case, In Lord Shaftesbury's case the cause of commitment was not set out on the warrant, it was enough that he had been guilty of a breach of privilege, and that was the cause of his com mitment. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite h a d . . taunted him with d e claring that the resolution of that House directing the Sheriff to refund the money would lave been a sufficient defence to an action by Stock dale. He (the Attorney-General) had said it—he said t then, he believed it was a defence, and on that ground the rule ought to have been discharged. And indeed be would not believe that he was wrong, for the Judges that very day after hearing the arguments, deli- ,crated for a lull half hour befOre delivering their present udf,r,ment. He, therefore, thought that every body .could allow that it was a fit cause for their considera.- ion ; and it they had acted as then predecessors had lone, they would have discharged the rule. He (the Attorney-General) did not regret the course that bad teen taken on the present subject.—( Hear, hear.) In the first instance, they had placed confidence in the Judges, believing, with regard to a matter of privilege, h.v would have followed the course of their prede cessors. For that reason, he had Advised the House lot to enter summarily on the question, but to appeal .o the Judges. They had appealed, and they had tppealed in vain ; for these Judges had come to ad.• : - .. . ision which he believed could not be defended. Chat being so, he (the Attorney-General) said they were bound to defend their privileges by the xercise of those powers vested in them by the Constitution, namely, by proceeding in a summary man ner, and defending their own privileges by their own strength. The power of commitment was a great wea don—the Constitution allowed them only to use it cau iously—only to use.it in self-defence, and he thought it was a weapon they were fully justified in using on the present occasion. He (the Attorney-General) re- ;retied most sincerely that 'it should be necessary to proceed criminally against Mr. Howard, but as there was an overwhelming necessity he had no hesitation in voting against the amendment of the Rght Hon. Gen tleman opposite, and supporting the motion of the Noble Lord, the Secretary of State for the Colonies. Mr. Sergeant Talfourd was then called for, when Mr. FRESHFIELD rose and said he would stand but a very short time between the House and the Hon. tad Learned Gentleman opposite. He rose, feeling that the profession to which he had the honour to be long would be disgraced if he withdrew from the ques tion without protesting, in the most strong and positive rerms, against the course that was then proposed to be adopted. They were then, after they had com mitted Mr. Stoekdale, going to commit his attorney, md thus deprive him of all legal aid. He (Mr. Fresh field) asked there why they did not commit the Judges and the Counsel who had been concerned in the case, he could then have understood why the attorney should be committed among the rest. The Hous© at present was proceeding to make a distinction by attacking- the lower branch of the law only. He supposed the House imagined that they would have more success, because the officers he alluded to had less power and less sym pathy with the public. The Hon. and Learned Attor ney-General had said that the attorney had offended against the resolutions of the House. They had gone to the Court of Queen's Bench, and that Court had affirmed the right of the plaintiff. The plaintiff em ployed an attorney, who prosecuted that action, and lent his professional aid in prosecuting similar actions. It appeared to him the power of the House was dimi iished when it was exercised in that way, because the [louse must be aware that persons having a right will ever , mploy a professional man to carry that right through every Court in the kingdom. He (Mr. F.) had heard that Mr. Howard lead been committed to Newgate—he was not less an attorney because he was there. There .vere thousands of solicitors who would feel themselves disgraced if they were not to afford assistance when any subject had occasion for it, and it was in their power to render it.—( Hear.) He (Mr. Frcshfield) thought that a Court of Justice might enforce an attorney, if he were An officer of its Court, to render assistance to any man in need. He apologised for interposing, but he thought It was his duty to make that simple, straightforward, honest declaration.—( Hear.) Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD then said that it was most painful fot him, on the present occasion, to vote .igainst the opinions of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General, and against the majirity of that douse, but when he heard strange doctrines advocated by his Learned Friend, he felt himself imperatively called upon to speak. It had been said that technical objections had been made, now he (Mr. Sergeant Tal lourd) thought that they had then arrived at that junc ture when no professional quirks or quibbles would avail —they had arrived at that high prospect, at that 111 a inentous period when professonal aid was no longer of my service, but which required more awful and deep consideration. In that House, it had been his - Jot to hear the Learned Attorney-General—for whoso 0..r -tiestness, singleness of mind, and abilities, ho had the greatest veneration—he (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd) had said it had been his lot to hear his Hon. and Learned Friend arraigning the Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench—(Cheers from the Opposition)—arraigning them not with respect to any authority they had usurped, but . - with respect to a judgment which he himself had in vited them to declare—(Hear, hear)—for not having decided with him alter an unexampled argument of three days' continuance. He, had heard a Noble Lord (Lord Teignmouth) on the opposite bunches arraigni ng the Judges in a similar form. He heard the great leader of the great Conservative parry in that House, gently and delicately commenting on the judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench. He (Mr. Sergeant I'.) sa id th at this was a most tremendous contest against the genius and majesty of the law. The question on which they were now debating. was, whether the serene majesty of the law should be recognised in after ages, or whether the . y judgment of a fluctuating popular assembly, at all times liable to tumults, should prevail. The question t . was no l e ss than that, and he (Mr. S ergeant Talfourdr said that if a Court had come t 0... an erroneous opinion on th e i r privileges, there was still a higher tribunal that might decide in their favour.—(A laugh.) Th e Queen's Bench had in olden times struggleli to lord_ it_ over_ the Common Ple as , an d the Chancery overboth. That had been the struggle in former times, but such was not the position at the present moment—there was no con test between the Court of Chancery and the Common Law Courts, nor between that House and the laws of England. If the judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench were wrong, why did they not persevere in that course in which they had first begun ? Why did they not carry it by a writ of error into the Exchequer Chamber? He would not at that period of the debate enter into a long argument on the question, nor would he go over the ground that had been trodden by those who had proceeded him in that debate. He would merely apply himself to the consideration of the subject then before the House. They had determined that a breach of privilege had been committed ; the question, therefore, was were they to call the attorney in the case, before them. He (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd) had not heard why the attorney had the preference over the Sheriffs-,.-the preference over the Counsel, and the preference over the Judges of the Court of 4ueen's Bench.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.) He (Mr. Sergeant Talford) could conceive, EVENING EDITION. I as was once the case, an attorney bringing actions against as many newsvenders. That attorney had no real client ; but in the present case they had got the plaintiff, and they had committed him for a breach of their privileges ; he asked them why they should visit the attorney with punishment, and pass by the Judges and the Counsel ?—(Loud sheers from the Opposition.) In fact, it was " Letting I dare not wait on whom I would." He (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd) asked whether the House was not exercising a most desPotic power. They had every ingredient for despotic power. It was very different from the despotism of a single individual, who was capable of being restrained and subdued by circumstances, subject to pity and sympathy, relenting and human. But there they showed a combined body swayed by no affec tions, liable to no relenting, in fine, a body, who bad left their hearts behind them.—(Loud cheers.) He beg ge d to rem i nd the House that they w e re then . setting a precedent, which after Houses of Commons might choose to follow. The Right Hon. Baronet, who had delivered on that occasion a speech which, if anything could, would have convinced him—the Right Hon. Baronet had intimated an apprehension that teat House was inferior to their illustrious predecessors. He (Mr. Sergeant Talfourd) said if they were degraded,. that was no reason why they should descend still lower. He implored them to consider well before they entered into a conflict with the authorities of the Jaw—before they invaded the authority of the Court of Queen's Bench, In conclusion, then, he trusted they would not commit the gentleman then before the House, who, in his opinion had committed no offence against God or man.--( Hear, hear.) Sir R. -PEEL trusted the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down would not feel it any way disre respectful to himself if he suggested that a few evenings ago was the proper time for answering his (Sirß. Peel's) speech. The question then was whether Mr. Burtoa Howard should be called to the bar.—(Hear.) ___.. . • . . He (Sir Robert) considered it strictly consistent. with the Con,servative principles on which be bad always acted, to maintain for every one of the great institu tions of the country the privileges which they possessed. —(Hear, hear, and cheers.) The question was, whe ther the House of Commons was entitled to this privi- lege, which be believed essential to the performance of its functions—(Hear, hear)—and he believed that he was adopting the true Conservative policy—if that belief were well founded—in attempting to support the privilege.—(Hear, hear.) When had he ever shrunk from resisting any attempt on the part of the House of Commons to encroach upon the privileges of the other branches of the Legislature ?--(Hear, hear, hear.) And 'that course he would continue to pursue. But when he found an attempt made to rob the House of Commons of privileges to which he believed the/ were entitled from the necessity of the case—in that case, actuated by the same principle, he would support that privilege.—(Hear.) It was said that he in - that main tained the tyrant's plea—necessity. Why, in so doing, he had quoted the authority of Lord Denman—(Loud cheers) —who had distinctly admitted that any privilege necessary for the energetic discharge of their functions they must have.—( Hear.) And unless the House could itself vindicate that privilege it could have no force or efficacy. Again, he considered that in taking this course he was conforming to the almost universal opi- nion of the House, as formerly expressed. Was the Learned Sergeant aware of the resolutions to which the House had come to in IS37?—(Mr. Sorjeant Talfotird here whispred, " I was not there.") Not there ? yes! that was the complaint which he (Sir Robe:t) had to make against the Learned Sergeant.—(Hear, hear.) He had been there himself, considering it to be his duty to express his opinion on a great constituiional question. He had witnessed a nearly unanimous expression of opi nion ; and to that—unLi! rescinded—was not he entitled to adhere ?—( Hear.) The resolutions were supported by Si: Frederick Poilock, by Sir Viliiam Follett, by the Attorney and the Solicitor Generals, and there was hut one dissenting voice—that of Sirß Inglis.—( A laugh.) Now, why had not the lawyers of the House then warned them of the dangers to be anticipated from pur- suing such a course ? Well, after hearing these reso lutions read in August, 1839, the House resolved, that to bring such actions was a high contempt of the pri vileges, and the House resolved that by 120 to 4, and on that minority there was not a single lawyer. Was it not hard upon him, an unprofessional man, to he blamed for adhering to a course thus unanimously adopted, and not contradicted at the time by a single lawyer ? The tendency of the Learned Sergeant's speed], ,eloquent as • it bad been, was not to diminish, but to increase his (Sir R. Peel's) apprehensions of what would he he' en the consequence of submitting to the claims of th e Court of Law. The Learned Sergeant had censured him for having—not disrespectfully —not, to use the Learned Sergeant's own words, " kindly, even deli cately"—questioned some opinions of the Judges.— (Hear. hear.) Such, it seemed, was the paramount I supremacy of the Courts of Law, that even on a matter affecting the privileges of the House a Member might not animadvert on their judgment.—( Hear, hear, hear.) All that lie had dive was to quote the opinion of Lord Denman, to which he had referred, regarding necessity as the origin - of privilege ; and the opinions of the other Learned Judges, to the effect that though Members might, have papers piloted for their own use, they dared net disclose any e afitheir contents on pain of ,an 'Milieu for libel. `And' then he had put the case of the vote of 20,000,0001.,, and had C.xemined how such 'a'deeis;On would work, showing that according to the judgment of the Queen's 13er:ell, - tfhe had been questioned by his constituents as to the ',grounds on which he-had giVen that vote, he could not hayeziVCD them those grounds as disclosed in the evidence whit: had been presented to the House.—(Hear, hear.) Did not the Court of Queen's Bench hold that for so doing be would have been liable for libel, not only in that Court, but in every Court competent to entertain' the quest ion of libel ?—( Assent fromMr.SergeantTalfourd.) Did not the Court hold that sale had nothing . to do with the question in a legal point of view ?—(Anotheir as sent from the Learned Sergeant.) Well, then, "that being so, did it not follow that when Parliament was not sitting, if any Member communicated to his consti tuents evidence—for instance on slavery—he would 6) liable to actions or indictments for libel in every Qtv.r ter Sessions and every Borough Court?—(Hear, And would the Learned Sergeant say that sucl-, a stall of things was consistent with what Lord De'llman caber the energetic discharge of their functie'as ?—(Hear.) Why, take the case of a Mr. Kenrick, a J u d ge , w h ose conduct had been impeached—nr:inst whom evidence had been heard —which was painted on the motion of the then Sir Thomas Denman.—(Loud cheers.) Lord Denman had the evidence in his possession. Lord Denman received them not as a Peer of Parliament, but as a Member of that House, and, his privilege in that capacity having ceased, suppose Lord Denman were now to communicate any part of that criminatory evidence to persons inquiring on what grounds he had proceeded against Mr. Kenrick, his Lordship, ac cording to the opposite doctrine, would be liable to au action for libel.—(Hear.) Was there not ground, then., for saying that this privilege was essential to the due discharge of their functions? These were points to which he (Sir Robert) challenged a reply—points which had never hitherto been answered.—(Cheers.,) And if the Judges told him that as a Member of Par- lament he could not circulate any criminatory matter without being called in question—if that were O A law —if that law were persisted in —he, for or.e, would rather abdicate his functions as a Member of -Parliament —he would not submit to perform the high duties of legislation, if he could not explain h ; .‘ conduct to his 1 1 constituents without being liable t o question in every Quarter Sessions. And yet s'..• it was. He held his I adversaries to - the letter '.it" the law for which they I contentled--(Hear, hes.l)—and he did believe that it would be intinitely I.)etter, that there should be no I popitlar assembly :Whatever as a part of the Constitu tion of the country, than that it should hai . e the Vain blance of powers of which it was absolutely deprived. —(Cheers.) The question was, whether a publication ordered by the Speaker of that House was privileged or not. Would the Learned Sergeant deny that it was? Would the Learned Sergeant sly it was only . , partially privileged ? Would he venture thus to sup- ' port the judgment of the Queen's Bench ? And he (Sir R. Peel) had observed that not one single' lawyer in that House had ventured to affirm, that if the pub lication for the use of Members were privileged, that - the publication generally was not privileged ; and, if sa, could the Learned Sergeant be surprised that the House were unwilling to trust their privileges to the Courts of Law ?—(Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) These were the grounds on which he (Sir R. Peel) had acted. It was easy to make an appeal to ale feelings. He had admitted that the conduct of the Sheriffs in their difficult situation was deserving of praise but as the Learned Sergeant had spoken of humanity he (Sir Robert) could not help stating that there could not be a more dangerous doctrine than that because officers were high in station—because they were honourable character—because their personal demeanour to the House had been becoming, that therefore no step} should be taken against them in the ordinary way enforce a concurrent jurisdiction.—( Hear, hear.) Rut if an appeal to humanity and sympathy were to be. Ili lowed in favour of the Sheriffs, he could not avoid ;sa.-_, , in_ that there was much more ground for such an appe, a l behalfof Hansard before Lord Denman, for Hansa , . d migi I justly have said that ha was only the mini.ste . ,:ial officer of a higher authority, and that it wa4 st , :ilting at mice and allowing the larger ar,:ima), to escape-- (Hear, hear, and a laugh)—to fix upon him for censure. There was a higher authority ; under whose direction I (Mr. Hansard) a cted, than the Court of Queen's Bencii, I.' to which he (Hansard), might have said, Don't drag an unfortunate printer. within your power ;. he is but the servant of the, -louse of Commons, to whose orders he was oblipCt to pay obedience, therefore don't make me, an butale individual, responsible, when you have the real deliuquent tc attack—namely, the Speaker of the House of Commons, and the House of Commons it , I self," Whet would the Chief Justice feel hitnielf at liberty to do ? Did the House think that such an__ a aP n - F peal could h ave h a d tiny effect ? Or suppose that H 7_ ► sard had p resen t e d a printed petition to that Csuon„urt..... , I setting forth the grievances under which be was