The Sun. — London, England, 1840-04-09 00:00:00

,YEN LNG EDITION. -___ .._ an Officer commission e d by any other Sovereign." opium.---S Hear, hear.) They had first appealed to the Su- Now the N o bl e L or d k ikew as far b ac k as J une 183 5, t h a t , perintendent, who had told them that he had no pow ers on the there was great danger, unless that form of address were ' subject. They were a simple unsophisticated people; but adopted, that the statement would not reach the authori- I they could not believe that the Noble Lord, or any Go th,'s. Yet the Noble Lord prevented Captain Elliot from vernment, would send out a Superintendent for the pur aauntohpotirnitgies. the only mode in his power of reaching the local pose of controlling and regulating trade, and yet give him Captain Elliot, however, disregarded this in- no power whatever to act.—( Opposition cheers.) They struction. H a h umoure d t h e f o ibl es o f t h e l oca l authori- did not believe that , and they therefore p ursued the course ties, and the consequence was that he obtained impo r t ant to which foreigners are exposed in China, and which had con cessions from them. They conceded the right of di r ec t been ado p ted over and over again before. They put the com munication with the Government, and they afterwards Superintendent under restraint—or rather he put himself by yranted him permission to correspond with officers of rank, under restraint. He came to Canton, and being there, Nobl sealed letters, but this only lasted till the despatch of the they blockaded him and prevented him from from going address, Lord, whose mind se emed horrified at this mode of away. What was the consequence ? He sent a request , which directed Capt. Elliott to abstaii from using to the opium dealers to deliver up all the opium in their 'l a and to adopt another mode of address ; the consequence possession, and the request was complied with. Ought struck that the address was rejected, the Superintendent not that in the eyes of the Chinese to have justified the the his flag at Canton, returned to Macao, and ' course they pursued ? How could they believe that the e 6, trade was interrupted by this Paltry point of Superintendent had not powers which he himself had exer az_ net, The Noble Lord approved of his con_ cised ? While that Superintendent was at liberty they got -" and directed him to endeavour to obtain some nothing ; but the moment they put him under restraint, less objectionable mode of communication. Nothing fur_ the w h o le of the opium was given up without ..he r ota was done until the unfortunate opium question broke the slightest objection. He thought that those for , when Captain Elliot found it necossarY to adopt the circumstances perfectly accounted for the course which and communication to which the Noble Lord objected, the Chinese Government had pursued.—( Hear, hear.) a ot h 'n Consequence of that obtained leave from th e l oca l Ile would not follow up the observations made by an Hon. House to return to Canton. He would now ask the Member on his side of the House, on the fact of hostilities out, if th e fi rst part of t h e c h arg e had not been made having been occasioned by an act of oppression. on the • ' namely that no power or instructions had been part of the Chinese. There was no doubt but this people the adapted to the novel and difficult situation in which had been guilty of acts of cruelty, but these acts had been could Superintendent was placed ? If any Hon. Member greatly exaggerated, and there was no proof that they find any despatch conveying information or instrue- could be attributed to the Chinese Government. The etiosndoe that important subject, then he would say that a fact, however, was, that we were now plunged in a war, information had been made out a"ainst the motion ; but no such the issue of which it would be impossible to forsee. The iralormation was t o h e f o und in these scanty and House knew that the expenses attending it would be enor- H ea e g re despatches —he used the words of the Right moue, and that, in the present state of the revenue of this There Member for Edinburgh. — ( Loud cheers.) country, it would be a most calamitous circumstance to add s us • e was nothing in them to afford the least to its burdens by the expenses of even a necessary war. ~ etlfication of the Noble Lord, nor any thing to induce He should say that the war was not a necessary one, be t", House to believe that he had bestowed that attention cause it had been brought about by a series of incautious, s Q the affairs of China which he was bound to do impolitic, and negligent measures on the part of her Ma from Government ; and when they asked what policy Member the situation he held. He agreed with the Hon. .i an d for Edinburgh, that when a Government of power Hon. Members on his side would pursue, and when they wasauthority was established at a distance from home, it were told to point out a different course from that of the cu a ,s not desirable to be interfering in every minute parti- Noble Lord, the answer was, that they would have adopted ex 'ar, but to leave much to the discretion of the person a totally diff.'rent line of proceeding, and that they would e . erei sing that authority. Such, however, was not the have given to the Superintendent's precise and definite in i.:_e---there was a necessity for at least a communication o f structions ; they would have enabled them to act with full a v i :_ers, and some definition of them ought to have been authority on every subject connected with our China trade, give There . was no analogy whatever between the and they would, he believed, by those means have pre tern, This power had been created in 1833, and the vented a fatal war—fatal, he had a right to call it, for the terms by it was created were so general, that we find it would be felt from one extreme of society to the other, tins .11perintendent repeatedly urging that some ex lava- and it would press on the highest as well as the lowest wit u s should be given of his powers. Instead of complying classes of this country. He felt so satisfied that by the Buect " this request, the Noble Lord in this particular pur_ evidence before the House the motion made by his his darling system of non.intervention, and he Right Hon. Friend was supported in every respect that ao neither gave the Superintendent instructions how to act, he did not hesitate to give that motion his entire and un rii "I's to act, or counsel or advice on the subject. qualified support.--( Cheers.) b e now came to the opium question, respecting which Sir G. STAUNTON wished to offer a few words in the could not find one word or any sort of instruction from explanation of some allusions made to a speech of his ~.," Noble Lord, only a mere allusion in a letter sent to by the Honourable and Learned Member who had t'aPtain Elliot, answering that which he never dc- just sat down. The grounds of his opposing the 1 m anded, which he could not be supposed to be particu- motion of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite were well without anxious to ascertain, and which he knew perfectly that he could not trace any connection between the present e e"' without the Noble Lord, that the Government would rupture with China and any act of commission or omis- Cafford facilities to e nable smugglers to violate the sion of the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposi- Pof other countries. Now, it seemed quite clear that tion benches.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had iCaptain Elliot had been on a friendly footing with the misunderstood him with regard to his connections with the :5 4 , 1 authorities of the country, he might, by co-operating Chinese Government. He did not object to the law as Kith those authorities, have succeeded in putting down the laid down by Commissioner Lin, but what he objected to opj, in trade ; but the Noble Lord's pertinacity respecting was, that the law should have been allowed to have a re .o, l re the mode of address prevented the only chance there wa s trospectivo effect, and should have been applied to persons , accompli s hi ng that most important object. In a re - who had come to China under the faith of former cus tri- e r L able letter of Sir Geo. Robinson, that gentleman toms. He believed that for the last 200 years, there was s tated that if he could procure the authority of the Govern - no instance of the Act havin g been enforced. ..I ent h e could immediately stop the traffic in opium. Was Mr. C. BULL ER said that the Hon. and Learned that true or not ? Member opposite had stated that the whole of our present ,Tr, J. HOBHOUSE—No. difficulties in China were to be traced to the instructions Ir. THESIGER—How could they know, unless the g iven to Lord Na p ier, at a time when the Right Hon. experiment had been tried ? Baronet o pp osite had been a member of the Government. Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE—Look at p. 120. Sir JAMES GRAHAM—That was six years ago. 'lr. THESIGER—At p. 120 Sir George Robinson Mr. CHARLES BULLER—That was six years ago; sa3111 " Whenever her Majesty's Government direct us to but it had been said that those instructions were the origin p r e.vent British vessels engaging in the traffic, we can of all the ev il s now com p lained of, and a censure was thus _n u " t rce any or d er to that e ff e ct.e,..-(Opposition cheers.) cast on the Right Hon. Baronet by his Hon. and Learned a Sir . J. HOBHOUSE—Go on. Friend.—( Hear, hear.) He hopedthe Duke of Wellington , u ,',lr. THESIGER ( a ft er a pause, and in a somewhat had also some friends in that House who would defend him Prohibit tone)...._. B u t a more certain method would be to against the charge of gross negligence.—( Hear, hear, and O pium, the growth of the Poppy , and manufacture of a laugh.) It had been said that for seventeen months no te in British India."—( Immense cheering and laugh- despatch had been sent to China except one by the Duke " from the Ministerial benches.) Certainly, if no opium of Wellington, but that despatch merely said, " look back were A made there could be no smuggling, and therefore the to the despatches of Lord Palmerston." He did not object most effectual method would be to destroy all the poppies. to the praises bestowed on the Duke of Wellington, but Slit. J. H OB HOUSE— In British India!—(A l aug h.) it should be recollected that the Noble Duke was in office, A r • THESIGER thought the Right Hon. Baronet at the tim e of the p roceedin g s relating to Lord s Ras not justified in interrupting him. p Sir George Robin. Na p ier. It had been said that no sympathy had been S, e son certainly expressed an opinion that he couldut down shown at the deat h o f the Noble Lord, but it should be re (' traffic by British shiPs, if authorised to do so ; and he collected that that sympathy should have come from the thought,,e that some experiment ought to have been made. Duke of Wellington, as he was in office when that event of of Captain Hon. Member for Edinburgh had alluded to a letter had occurred. For his part, he believed that the . Duke rs ' Captain Elliot's, in which he stated that he thought Wellington had acted wisely, and he w_ishe o d rd th N t a o i t e h r e to t here; was some intention on the Part of the Chinese Go- had imitated his example, mi l d allowed L He had one P hint R as to legalize the traffic in opium. That letter sleep undisturbed his inhis F uLt n im d e tl y le grave. Member for Woodstock, 7,as received 22d August, 1837 ; but in 1838 all hopes of to offer to was Lear ned this thatt when he threw imputations on I T': sort must have vanished, as four strong edicts were and Honou lt rable Members — on that side of the House, 2 n .1 1 1 . issued on the subject, which would be found at page ,'I , and at page 247 we find Captain Elliot declaring he should studynith . e character . of individuals, ,_the trade ' is eroceeding tranquilly for the present, but and not throw out imputations of lethargy against t he vast opiumldeliveries- at Whampoa. under extremely the . Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. Nothing could be more preposterous than such a charge, hazardous circumstances, may certainly at any moment produce some grave dilemma." He went o n to state in and the Noble Lord was the last person against whom it h is letter of the sth February, 1838, that the regular could be directed, as his fault certainly was not that of not trade had been stopped in consequence of the traffic in doing enough.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had been °Plum • and then they came to the memorable despatch of charged with sins of omission, and when they come for the Noble Lord of the 15th June, 1838, in which, for the first ward they omit to state what he had omitted to do.— and l as t time any mention is made of the opium trade at all. ( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Buller) agreed with Hon. Mem ',rita there anything, he would ask, in any one of those bers opposite in thinking that the question before the atlnespatches, directly to the purport? Was it not the House was one of the greatest importance, and he believed .ver x. n io m us and earnest desire of Captain Elliot that Go- that the decisions of the Government would involve inte ( Hear enhteshould point out the course he should follow.— rests of the utmost magnitude, and that questions of great atnutohpoiruintty:wlhich Did he not request to be armed with some difficulty and delicacy would arise, because we were en might enable him to stop the illegal traffic tered on a crisis the termination of which would determine assuming so hear.) dange , rmis ( llear, H stated that the trade was whether we were to lose our trade with China, or whether an appearance, that some interpo- we might make our present position the means of establishing sition on his part necessary. was On the B th of De c . that trade on a better footin g than it had ever existed nti he me 18 38, , oned the seizure of the opium , and he stated before. He had certainly fears and doubts as to the results that the Hong merchants had discontinued t h e trade b y of the hostilities in which we were now engaged. We order. On the 13th o f December, he stated, that the know so little of the Chinese p eo p le that we cannot cal execution which th e f ore i gners i n th e country endeavoured c ulate with an y p robabilit y on the results of the course we to . , prevent h a d at length taken place. He wished to dra w are about to pursue. China may offer us a greater resist- Viaattention of the House to the despatch of the Noble ance than we ever had expected, or she might fall under Lord in answer to that most imortant critical communication our attacks, and thus render us masters of half of the entire -- why, the Noble Lord on receiving a most important des- human race. Such a circumstance would awaken the jea- Patch from a person confidently employed by him merely lousy o f other nations, and might be attended with most refers th a t person to the newspapers. A more extraordinary dangerous results. Considering the magnitude of the in- Course of proceeding than that could not in his ( Mr. Thesi- terests at stake, he certainly did not think that Hon. Gen ger's) opinion be imagi ne d. It was a t th a t 'period that tlemen oppo site were p ursuing a wise and judicious Captain Elliot found it necessary to break through the re- course. He did not complain of Honourable Members gulations of the Noble Lord, and t° adot that particular offering their views on such a subject, but he corn style of communication with the Chinese authorities, to plained of their having made use of it for the pur- I. hich he had before so strongly and repeatedly objected. poses of party animosity and aggrandisement.—( Hear.) to was then that h e proceeded to Canton, where he had The Right Hon. Baronet had worded his resolution with . ? e act on his own discretion without any instructions from great skill, and so as to catch the greatest number of t _O Foreign Office. It appeared that at that time he corn- votes, by committing those who voted with him as little of to the Noble Lord his expectation of the arrival as possible. He was aware there was a large number of u o l f a person, armed with very great powers, for the purpose persons averse to the opium trade, and to a war in any s uPPressing the trade in opium. All this, however, had degree connected with it. That he was aware also of a notawakened the Noble Lord, and there was still no large mercantile interest who thought the Government himattention paid to the repeated communications made to ought to have recourse to strong measures for securing , sr on the subject. It would not be necessary for him indemnity for the past, and putting trade on a secure foot \'l. Thesiger) to enter minutely into the circumstances ing. The Right Hon. Gentleman, to swell his division Which attended the presence of Commissioner Lin in as much as possible, had excluded all expression of opi- Canton. That Commissioner had merely executed the nion respecting the opium trade as to the measures ay orders of his Government, and the result was the seizure of adopted by the Chinese Government as to the seizure of ths a t st quantity of opium. He (Mr. Thesiger) believed opium, and as to the measures circumstances ren 14' the proceedings to which he referred, had dered it incumbent on the Government to adopt. Then, I o .tct the hostilities which ensued, and to the wa s he wron g in sa y in g the Right lion. Gentleman had It sif ion in whi c h t hi s coun t r y is now unfortunately placed, reduced this to a party sub j ect, the discussion of sled been sa id b y the Right Hon. Member for Ports - which could have no p ractical bearing on the settlement y outh that h e was disposed to vote against the motion of of this question, hecause it was in fact but a repetition of y is (Mr. Thesigcr's) Right Hon. Friend, in consequence the " No - co nfidence" motion of his Ri g ht Hon. Friend of the course pursued by the Chinese Government, with near him ? He (Mr. C. Buller) was far from dissenting peg to th e o pi um t r ade. The Right Hon. Baronet from the doctrine laid down by the lion. Member for `_i a a . d . said that thereahad been so long a forbearance on the Wiltshire, with this qualification, that when they had de- !, hject on the part of China that the persons engaged in termined on the policy which ought to be pursued, it was the trade migh t cons id er it e q u ivalent to a permission. Ile then matter worthy of in q uir y , whether her Ma j est y 's Mi had stated, in addition that very great cruelty had been nistcrs might have foreseen what bad occurred, arid bs practised by High Commissioner Lin, and that the u- the timely interposition of proper policy have avoided the _I ' ishment of death had never before been resorted to with evils resulting from it ; but then it seemed to him that respect to the traffic in opium, and that, therefore, he, those who brought forward t hese char g es ou g ht to state for one, would not sanction such proceedings, and that he what measures would have avoided those evils—nothing was prepared to express his disapprobation of them by was so easy as this retrospective foresight—the phrase votin g against the mo tion before the House. He (,Mr. was a bold innovation, but he must either use it or coin a Thesiger) should say, however, that he did not see any new one and say back-sight.—( Laughter.) Nothing was marks of vaccilation on the part of the Chinese Govern- more easy than to warn us of dangers which had been in- n - lent, as bad been stated. He did not see anything in the curred, but with all this ex post facto foresight what use proceedings of the Chinese Emperor which would indicate did the Right Hon. Baronet make of it? There was great a determination on his part not to put an end to the trade difference between foresight and precaution, between saying in question. D o w n t o the time of the appointment of the what would happen and what would prevent it happening ; High Co m mi ss i o n e r, he found that the attention of the and when the Right lion. Baronet charged the Govern- Emperor had been directed to the subject, and he found m ent with want of foresi g ht for not having done what they him receiving the reports and acting upon them. The ought, lie ought to have said what he would have done had 'mPeror had reason to believe that the orders he had sent lie been in their places ; hut neither the Right lion. Baronet to Canton would be faithfully obeyed, and it was not till nor any other Gentleman had done this. If they wanted his attention had been awakened to the subject, that he to put before the House the difference between the vigour, se "t a Commissioner armed with plenipotential powers, capacity, arid far-seeing views of the Right lion. Baronet to ii , put a stop to the opium traffic. Was there anything and the Government, he would suggest the fair way would ' a l', vaccination in that ? or was there any of that cruelty be for the Right Hon. Baronet to lay upon the table, as a for h a d det erre d th e Right Hon. Baronet from voting contrast to the despatches of the Noble Lord, copies of all t os s the motion before the House? It was on the cruelty despatches he would have written to Captain Elliot, many tsentencing persons engaged in the trade to death, that if he had been Secretary of State for the Foreign found e d, H a (Mr. Thesiger) could see nothing, how- much of gentlemen opposite in their voluntary patriotism, ever, to justify those observations, and he confessed that, h e did s a y f or e v e r y act they com p lained of the Noble thou g h h e did not approve of extreme punishments being Lord for doing, they should say precisely what he eught 4 1 , Plied t o trifling offences, he felt it fair to take into to have done. They talked loudly of " powers and in "eesaunt that we were dealing with a people who m we called structions," but what these should have been he believed b .drbarians, and he thought they should be allowed to no one knew, not even themselves. Now, perhaps, the execute their own laws in their own way, and without any House would excuse him, if before adverting to the prin interference on the part of others.—( Hear, hear.) The cipal inferences thrown out by gentlemen opposite, he Right Hon, Member for Edinburgh had asked of Mere_ ventured to give his own conclusion on the papers laid on hers on his ( Mr. Thesiger's) sid e o f th e H ouse , what they the table of the 113113 e after an attentive examination of would d o w ith regard to the opium traffic. It was them, and all publications connected with the subject. asked whether they would suppress it in the Port of His Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member for Exeter, Canton, and it had been said that it' they did so, it would had been guilty of great cruelty towards him, in conse apread itself over the adjoining coasts, and would lead t o quince o f some expression of his opinion during the speech an extensive system et* piracy. But he would as k if o f hi s li on , and Learned Friend, putting on a look of that were a reason why illicit traffic should not be sup_ suspicion. He should " just read the pap ers over a g ain. " pressed, and if they should allow it to continue because Now the cruelty of that his Honourable and Learned some contingent evils might follow from its extinction ? Friend could Was it g not possibly have known, because Canton, he t . any argument against the trade at that (Mr. Charles Buller) happened to have read I th might take place elsewhere, if it had been suppressed them three times over. Now the conclusion to which ,_ e , r e.—( llear, hear.) He really could not bring himself he had come was actually the contrary of that of the Right sioutibelieve that there could be any fair and dispassionate t H i on. Baronet. It appeared to him no human sagacity on ° ton the point submitted to the consideration of the , the part of - the Government could have the prevented Flouee f 1 inevitable cons ,_, as to a want of caution livingoresi on the part o , , equences of the s i nposito in which the China her alajesty'a advisers in not ' a,np cI • instructions to trade stood. Ile could, however, • their S y impute to them one -upertntendents, in order to enable them to suppress merit, that of not making matters worse the illicit than they were made h , events over ' traffic in opium, and adapt it to the novel and de- ou _ _ no ) which they had no control, but he li catePosition in which ld t find an )ortant ' the .e. . absenc e of these clear and definite instructions lead to Lord, by acting ch&rently, could have brought about ' L a difficultie s in which we were now engaged.—(Hear, more desirable results than those which had occurred. near.) T appeared to him were faults blued he absence of these definite instructions, com- It there , on both sides, for with the unfortunate dererrrination of the Noble he was not one of those who thought the Chinese wholly Lora in press'the - • . . ' fault, but our faults appeared to be faults of Y me . cat. press in on Su a mode of corn- in of . . the whole um ion, were, in his opinion, the source of our presentlpolicy,andthe footing system national ernharrassine about . nts. He would ask, if the war we were now put the trade . in 1833. , He felt the greatest regret (El ia to be engaged in was a ust . and a proper one ? at the , want of information exhibited by almost every body jar, hew' ) He was not afraidthis subject, but there had been this justice done in the He ..to meet that question. on would say that the Chinese a th ' 'the debate, that we no longer spoke of the Cu,. justified, according u orities were perfectly course of . had to their own usages, in the course they nese in the depreciating manner we had been accustomed adopt e d with r egard to the unexpected delivery of We hadgot far us to admit that our conduct the to do. so . had been such as to inspire the Chinese with fear of our aggressive designs. We-had at last come to the conclu sion, that the fate of mighty dynasties in the East was not an occurrence of every day. The Chinese Emperor knew that a company of British merchants had besought of Aurungzebe that be would allow them to establish a factory in a part of that empire, and that the descendants of that Monarch were now the pensioners of the descendants of those ancestors. The effect of opening the trade by con gregating a number of persons in that country, had been to excite great alarm ; and another thing which had occur-- red at the same time, the experiment made to come into direct communication with that people by several ships which had appeared at the same time in different parts of the empire ; as also the attempt made to cross the barrier of the Himalaya and Chinese Tartary, all of which had no doubt been heard at Pekin, and excited the greatest alarm. There were two remarkable circumstances in our intercourse with China ; first, that the Chinese Govern ment had no direct communication with us, so that it was left entirely to the Provincial Authorities; for whatever rapacity they might be guilty of, we could obtain no re dress at the Court of Pekin ; but what was far worse, we had no authentic knowledge of the will of the Go vernment of China. It was his opinion, gathered from their public acts, that the Government had given evidence of their intention to put down the opium trade. One instance of this was, their having stopt all smuggling at Lintin and Canton, but what was the consequences? The viceroy became the substitute for the smugglers, and it was the opinion of Mr. Lindsay that his special procla mation was only to increase his share of the plunder. He said, on the authority of the Quarterly Review, that it was idle to suppose a nation could keep up commerce in a country which admitted of no diplomatic relations with them. He knew that the East Indian trade would sug gest itself to the minds of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, but that trade was a monopoly. The second point was more remarkable. Englishmen and Foreigners who went to Canton yet intended not to be responsible to the laws of the country. This might do among savages who had no code of laws ; but as far as they could judge, the Chinese had a regular administration of justice—it was a corrupt ad ministration, but at the same time regular.—( Hear, hear.) These two circumstances must, of necessity, have brought on a collision, and in the East India trade every thing was different ; the trade was restricted, and all under the control of the East India Company, and he told Gen tlemen opposite not to rely too much on the example of the East India Company, for there would be constant in terruptions of this trade. There never was a homicide committed in China without an interruption of the trade, and the only check the East India Company had was that which could not be had in our free trade with China --putting a stop to trade. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Portsmouth, and he referred to the circum stance with great regret, had proposed six resolutions re lative to the new system of trade, to which the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir J. Graham) bad adverted. In these he mentioned the jealousy of the Chinese—that this would be increased by the increase of strangers, aad the mis chiefs which must result from the peculiar law of homi cide ; he said he was so strongly impressed with this, that in his opinion they must adopt one of two alternatives, either to send an Embassy to the Court of Pekin and enter into direct communication with it, or to withdraw from the continent of China and establish ourselves in an island without the jurisdiction of the empire. He had not, however, ad dressed the House five minutes before it was counted out. He brought it forward again, but permission was only al. lowed him on condition that not a word should be said upon the subject, and the Right Hon. Gentleman, with all his precaution, sat with that decorous silence he was ac customed to observe on his (Mr. Buller's) side of the House, and gave no signs of attention to the resolutions, the reading of which at the time was considered to be a great bore, and which were negatived without a division.— (Cheers.) He was extremely sorry this collision, which he considered to be inevitable in the course of events, should have been caused by the traffic in opium, and that the Government should be mixed up in it. He could not say it was their fault ; they had not created the monopoly of the opium trade. There never was a monopoly more strongly sanctioned by the Government and that House; and if ever a debate came on on that subject, their evidence would be to show the manner in which the East India Company carried out that trade with China ; and in so doing the sanction of the House of Commons. But the gravamen of the charge upon the other side seemed to be, that the Government might have put a stop to this trade. He would just refer to two passages which had been quoted to show the spirit in which the imputation had been made. He never saw despatches which partook less of the character of warning than these, although they had been re lied on as such by his Hon. and Learned Friends the Member for Exeter, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Woodstock. One of these was a despatch from Mr. Davis, who said, " It is almost needless to observe that the edict is wholly useless. . . It remains to be seen whether the Chinese Governor will adopt rigorous mea sures to put down the trade."—( Cheers from the Oppo sition.) A Noble Lord opposite cheered, but what Mr. Davis meant was this : " I send you an edict from the Chinese Government, which is, as a matter of course, wholly inoperative ; but I am not sure whether it is such as all those which have been issued before, or whether the Government may not intend to have recourse to other measures."—( Hear, hear.) Well, a couple of years passed away, and nothing was heard more about the opium trade, except some rhodomontade of Sir George Robin son's, about his putting down the opium trades—(Hear, and Laughter.) The despatch of Capt. Elliot, of the 19th Nov., 1837, on which great stress had been laid, set before the Government the character which the trade had assumed, and suggested that " that was the time to adopt some remedy."—( Hear, hear.) But what was his suggestion of a remedy ?—(and the Government must rely upon his suggestion of a remedy as much as on his statement of its necessity.) He suggested that the British Government ought to take steps to legalize the trade in opium, and ought to send a representative to Can ton.—( Hear, hear.) Now, those Gentlemen opposite who insisted that distance was not an excuse for the omis sion of frequent instructions, might consider that their despatch was written on the lath of March, 1838; and if it had heen acted upon with the utmost promptitude an ambassador could not have reached Pekin (if there were no other obstacles) until the time when Lin had got possession of the opium, and the British were expelled from Canton.—( Cheers.) His Hon, and Learned Friend, who was unusually precise for a Gentleman on the other side— said, that "the British Government ought to have put down the opium trade." The attempt would have been utile—it would have been an attempt to enforce Milan and Berlin Decrees for the Emperor of China." It wanted no new law to declare the trade in opium illegal. The " flaming and luminous" ordinances were not un known to the people of China, but they were not cared for.—(Hear.) They had armed boats, and they set all the edicts at defiance.—(Hear, hear.) The trade was carried on in all their Courts, and that with the conni vance of the authorities.—( Hear, hear.) To make the attempt Captain Elliot must have established a coast blockade, as much larger than that of England as the coasts of China were more extensive.—( Hear.) That was a blockade which, not even the Conservative Govern ment, " when it comes in"—( Cheers and laughter)— would attempt. If they did attempt it the smuggling trade in opium would become the most sanguinary and mischievous ever known in the world.---(" No, no.") But it was said that the Government could have put down the opium trade in India. If they had done so, it could be done only by the sacrifice of 2,000,000/, of the scanty re venues of India, on the strength of that despatch of the Superintendatit.—( Hear, hear.) If they had done so, no doubt those Gentlemen opposite, who always showed so much disregard of party feeling—( Cheers and a laugh)—would have supported them, and borne testi mony to their disregard of financial difficulties, and of the opinions of their constituents.—( Cheers.) He disap proved of the trade in opium as much as any man ; but it was necessary, in order to get rid of it as a source of re venue to the Indian Government to have a crisis such as the present to awaken the feelings of the people of this country—( Hear)—and when their attention was brought to the subject their good feeling might be relied on, and you might legislate in safety.—( Hear, hear.) As the Noble Lord could not put down the trade, his only course was to keep the English Government aloof from it.— ( Hear, hear.) In answer to Capt. Elliot he said that he would take no measure to enable British subjects to carry on a contraband trade.—( llear, hear.) He (Lord Pal merston) told Mr. Elliot, that if British subjects incurred the penalties of the Chinese laws they must take the con sequences, and expect no assistance from him.--( Hear, hear.) That course of perfect forbearance was the only course which the Noble Lord could take, unless he under took to administer the laws of China.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It was wholly a waste of ingenuity to show that one part of one letter, and one part of another ought to have been answered sooner. It was no charge against the Noble Lord that he was a bad correspondent, and that he did not write as many letters to Captain Elliot as you would approve of. You ought to show that some evil had arisen from his not having done so.—(Cheers. ) As to the question of etiquette, be ( Mr. C. Buller) al lowed it very little weight. He thought the argument about " Pin" as pointless a pin as he ever heard of heard of.—(Laughter.) They had the opinion of the Hon. Member for Portsmouth of the little value of the etiquette They had his advice to Lord Amherst, not to submit to the ceremonies required.—( Hear, hear.) He thought, however, that one thing complained of was ill-advised— the address of Lord Napier to the Chinese in the lan guage of China. But then that was issued by the advice of a gentleman long acquainted with Chinese affairs, and was sanctioned by the precedent of the East India Company. He found he was occupying the House too long.— ( No, no, and cheers.) With respect to the residence of the Superintendent at Canton, that had caused no ill-feeling on the part of the Chinese authori ties--there had been, in fact, no misunderstanding at all— ( Cheers)—and the residence had no more to do with the rupture than the present motion had.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The general argument on the subject had been disposed of by his Right Hon. and Learned Friend the Secretary at War, and they seemed to him (Mr. B.) to have been framed according to plain common sense— ( Hear, hear) —fettering the agent who was at a great distance, with as few instructions as possible.—( Cheers from the Opposition, responded to by the Liberals.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM—There were no instructions at all.—( Cheers.) Mr. C. BULLE R thought that was the best o f all_ ( Cheers and laughter.) The Right Honourable Baronet was a party to those general instructions to which, in the hour of nee:l, the Duke of Wellington referred.—( Hear, hear.) They were of the general nature which was best adapted to his position, at so great a dis tance from the seat of Government. " What more," (said the [lon. Member)" would yoe have given?"—( Cheers. ) It seemed to hint that the best instructions to a man going out to China with very little power was "to do as little harm as possible. --( Hear, hear. ) The best instruction (as it appeared to him) was contained in the old adage— " Sinere res vadere, ut vadeant."—(Hear.) The Noble Lord ( Palmerston)had not been tardy or remiss. The Duke of Wellington left the dispatches of Lord Napier six months unanswered.—( Hear. ) On the contrary, in all the cases which required early instructions he had given immediate answers.—( Cheers.) He (Mr. B,) said no thing of the matter of the instructions. He spoke now ME SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 1840. only as to their dates.—( Hear.) When an attempt was mode to interfere with an execution, which was to be car ried into effect according to the laws of the empire, the Noble Lord promptly sent out his declaration that such interference was wholly unjustifiable.—( Hear, hear.) When he considered that five months must elapse before the despatch of the Superintendent applying for advice could reach this country, and that the answer could not reach him before the lapse of five months, it seemed to him to be impossible that the Super intendent could be left dependent upon instructions from the Government at home in every emergency.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Buller) thought that the Superinten dent ought to have greater powers—that Criminal Courts ought to be established, but he did not think that any part of the present disturbances arose out of the want of those Courts.—( Hear, hear, hear.) lie asked gentlemen opposite, what power would they have given the Super intendent ?—( Hear.) They spoke of ample and definite powers.—( Hear.) But imprisonment and forfeiture would have been useless. Otte effective power might have been given, that was—deportation.—( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord was not to blame for the withholding of that power. Ile ( Mr. Buller) knew who was to blame. It was a specimen of the foresight of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite.—( Cheers.) In 1838, the Noble Lord then at the head of the Admiralty, brought in a 13ill for the establishment of Criminal Courts in the waters of China, and for giving this power of deportation. The Right Hon. Baronet " objected to the Bill being brought in at so late a period of the Session, but did not wish to throw any ob stacle in the way of the Government—he only wished for deliberation and thee."—( Cheers and laughter.) " He" ( Sir J. Graham) " did not see how Courts could be esta blished and write enforced, but he greatly objected to the deportation of British subjects. "—( hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet did not wish to obstruct or embarrass the Go vernment—not he l—( Laughter.) No. If they would bring in a Bill in the next Session—( A laugh)—even though they had nut the consent of the Emperor of China --(A laugh)—he might not oppose it.—( Hear and laugh ter.) With his ( Sir J. Graham's) statesmanlike views, and foresight, and prudence, he would not oppose the Bill in the next session, when if it passed at all, it would pass at the very time when the property of British subjects in China was confiscated, and all the evils sought to be avoided by the Bill had actually occurred I—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet might find a good deal to dis pute in the course of all these words, he might say that they did not amount to a statement that he would oppose the grant of further power ; but the Right Hon. Baronet was so far a statesman, that he would never let what he had said be misunderstood, and accordingly he found him wind ing up the debate in the following terms :—" I must re peat, that so far from being favourable to the extension of the power of the Court, I think its powers ought to be withdrawn."—(Great cheering.) Such were the powers the Right Hon. Baronet would have given to the Super intendent in the hour of need—the withdrawal of all power.—( Cheers.) There was but one other point to which he wished to advert, and that was the refusal to follow the sage advice of the Duke of Wellington upon the subject of the stout frigate.—( Hear, hear.) It was with great pain that he ever spoke disrespectfully of the Duke of Wellington, or said that the advice attributed t 3 him was the most foolish and mischievous that ever could be given.—( Hear.) He was happy, however, to say that in the present ease he need not be so wanting to the Noble Duke, for what was the advice he had given ? He said—" I would recommend that, till the trade has taken its regular peaceable course, particularly considering what has passed recently, there should always be within the Consul's reach a stout frigate and a smaller vessel of war." Now, it seemed to him that that advice of the Duke of Wellington was sound ; that when there had been a dis turbance the Consul-General should have the power to put a stop to it. if there wes one course of conduct more mischievous than another, it was the manner in which the Gentlemen opposite had endeavoured to twist and turn that advice to their own purposes. Nothing could be so impolitic on the part of this country as always having ves sels in the Canton River—nothing was more calculated to sweep away the trade of this country with China than the exhibition of an armed force in their waters.—(Cheers.) There never had yet been a force in the waters of China without exciting great jealousy, and as a proof of that he need only remind the House of what bad taken place in consequence of the presence of two men-of-war at the time of the unhappy affair of Lord Napier. He had now endeavoured to ao swer such of the arguments of Gentlemen opposite as seemed to bear upon the question at issue; and he trusted, as the question could have nothing but a party object in view, the House would not be led away by any considera tion not involved in the motion before them. He trusted that they •would consider they were treating with a mere party question, and would dispose of it as an unworthy attack upon the Government. (The Hon. Gentleman sat (low* amid much cheering.) Mr. W. E. GL DSTONE', then rose to address the House. The speech of the Hon. Member who had just sat down had been marked with the ability and ingenuity that usually distinguished all that he 1 ; said ; but he could not help remarking that at the close of that speech, that although he declined sup porting the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet, yet, upon two points of vital importance, he agreed with the senti ments expressed by him, first, that Captain Elliot should have been invested with larger powers than be possessed ; and, secondly, that a Court for the control of British sub- jects ought to have been established ; and the Hon. Mem ber had added more point to this observation, by remark ing that the jealousy of the Chinese was a well-founded jealousy—that it had been increased by the change that had taken place in 1833, by the increase of trade in opium, by its extension along the coast, and by the conduct of Lord Napier. The lion. Gentleman had thought it strange that the Duke of Wellington, during his tenure of office, which the Hon. Gentleman had stated at three months, should have addressed only one despatch on the subject of China, and he said that the Duke of Wellington in that despatch did not blame Lord Napier ; now he (Mr. Glad stone) had found in that despatch a marked allusion to Lard Napier. The Duke in that despatch says, "It is not by force and violence that his Majesty intends to establish a commercial intercouse between his subjects and China, but by the other conciliatory measures so strongly incul cated in all the instructions which you have received."— ( Cheers.) Hon. Gentlemen cheered, but they must please to recollect that no person in the debate, or elsewhere, had objected to those instructions.—( Hear, hear.) Now, it it was the most natural thing in the world, that while the Duke of Wellington was considering the subject, he should content himself with writing a despatch containing an evi dent rebuke. He thought that those who were so charit able to the Noble Lord, when he allowed months and years to elapse without answers to particular subjects, might learn a most useful lesson from what had been done by the Duke of Wellington.—( Hear, hear.) He had laid down a scheme, which, if the Noble Lord had had the wisdom and manliness to adopt, he would have prevented all that had taken place. It had been truly said that the charges they had made against the Government were charges of ornission.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had had no new course to carve out, it was indicated in the Act of 1833. That Act gave hint full power to preserve order in China, by the same or more stringent means than was employed by the supercargoes. He had refused to adopt the China Trade Act, he refused to take notice of the advice of the Duke of Wellington, that the Superintendent ought to have greater powers.—( Hear, hear.) But what had the Noble Lord done? Why he had told Captain Elliot that he must insist upon having a diplomatic character, which he knew perfectly well had always been denied by the Chinese. The Chinese Go vernment, it was well known, had always refused to acknowledge this country as a nation, but had consented to trade with us as a body of tradesmen. The Noble Lerd had told Captain Elliot to insist upon having a diplomatic character, but he had refused to give him the power to force British subjects. The next omission of the Noble Lord was the omission to erect a Court. The Hon. Gentleman had talked about the power of absolute deportation ; if he did not think that right, was the Right Hon. Baronet to blame ?—( Hear. ) And if be did think it right, why did he not give the power of deportation, empowered as he was by the clauses in the Act ?—( Hear.) The grand omission of the Noble Lord was the omission that was made respecting the frightful causes of the opium trade under its present circumstances, because there was a great difference between it as carried on before and after 1836. The quantity of opium before that time was very much less, the trade not having then taken that spring which it did after 1833, there being then a power in the East India Company to stop it if they thought proper. Now, what were the facts connected with the opium trade as it stood after 1a36 ? The universal connivance of the Chinese authorities up to that time had always been admitted. Now, what had Mr. King, an American merchant, and the author of of a pamphlet, entitled " Opium Prices," stated with respect to that? Why, he said that that connivance was only a " subaltern connivance." His opinion, therefore, was, that the connivance was only the connivance of the inferior officers of the Chinese Government. Now, look ing at the case from the Inc nt h `h r , p i t n e m s b e e p , rt,elmBb3e6r, apprehen sion down wards, what were the facts ? y the Emperor issued an e dict, commanding the of all natives concerned in the opium traffic. This edict, which was not issued hastily, but after full con sideration, was followed by another aimed at the foreigners. Now, what he wi shed to know wag, why the Noble Lord had not interfered when he heard r o . f sue those n edicts ? ro is edic t, On the 234 of November, the Empe ordering certain foreigners to leave the country, whom he had heard were smugglers of opium. The Noble Lord had been informed of that, but Captain Elliot appeared to have put himself in opposition to the Chinese, and stated that he would resist the expulsion of the smuggling mer chants, if the Government should endeavour to enforce their edict ; and that was the way in which the British Government had stood aloof and observed neutrality.— ( Hear, bear.) On the 12th of April, 1537, Captain Elliot arrived at Canton, and at that time he was informed that the removal of the receiving -ships was insisted upon. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, had quoted a passage from the narrative of Mr. Lindsay, a gentleman who was undoubt edly an interested party, and who was as greatly interest e d in the opium trade as anybody, alleging that the Viceroy was concerned in the native boats. Much weight could not be given to such an assertion. The next act of the Government of Canton was, that on the 14th of July, the Emperor not being satisfied with the result of his messages to the Foreign Minister, ordered the receiving ships to be sent away by an Imperial Edict, and the English were dis tinctly informed that the legal trade would only be continued upon the offending parties, be they who they might, being removed from China. At that time Captain Elliot rc .. ferred the matter to the Noble Lord, with the most earnest entreaties that the Noble Lord would take up the subject. He suggested one particular means of dealing with it. The Noble Lord did not approve of that ; but because the Noble Lord did not choose to send a Commissioner to ne gotiate with the Court of Pe kin, wag that a justification to the Noble Lord for allowing bloodshed, robbery, an d w h a t Captain Elliot termed a system of piracy, to continue from month to month, and, for aught that the Noble Lord ap peared to have cared, from year to year, and to make no communication to Parliament on the subject ? It was after that time that the Noble Lord laid that garbled statement on the table upon which he founded his applica- tion for what bad been termed the China Courts Bill.- ( Hear, hear.) At length Captain Elliot himself was in formed of the commands of the Emperor. The Noble Lord at that time had every demonstration that man could have of the sincerity and earnestness of the Chinese Go vernment, and the Noble Lord had no grounds for sup posing that Parliament would be indifferent or reluctant to interfere on the subject. The Noble Lord receiving those despatches in May, 1838, took no step whatever with regard to them—the excuse to be advanced was, that because he declined to act at a time when acting might have been of use and have prevented the rupture that took place, that therefore he is to be excused for not attempting to inter fere till a later period --(Hear, hear.) He ( Mr. Glad stone) thought the Chinese Government had been has slily used in this debate, particularly by the Right Hon. Mem ber for Edinburgh, but he would beg to observe that the Chinese Government did not proceed to extremities entil after those edicts had been issued. They trusted to Cap tain Elliot's declaration, not very ingenuous, that he would refer the matter to the British Government. He said he had no official cognizance of any trade but the legal trade, and that over any other trade he had no authority.__ (Hear, hear.) Why the opium trade was a notorious fact—there was not a man in Canton that was not aware of all the circumstances connected with it, and when Captain Elliot stated that the Noble Lord did not even take the trouble to say, do not profess ignorance of that which you arc well aware of. Mr. ELLIOT—At what page is the correspondence to which the Hon. Member is now referring? Mr. G LADSTONE said at page 233 there was a letter of Captain Elliot's to Lord Palmerston, in which he stated "it is requisite your Lordship should know that at my first arrival in Canton, in the month of April last, I have frequently been urged by the official mer chants (and as they have always declared by the special command of the Governor) to dismiss the opium ships from the usual anchorages outside the ports. I have in variably replied on these occasions that my Commission charged me with the superintendence of the trade of Canton—that my Government had no formal knowledge of the existence of any other ;" and in page 240, Captain Elliot wrote to the Governor of Canton in these terms :—" He has already signified to your Ex cellency, with truth and plainness, that his Com mission extends only to the regular trade with this empire, and, further, that the existence of any other than this trade has never yet been submitted to the knowledge of his own gracious Sovereign."—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He hoped the Hon. Gentleman was satisfied with that.—( Hear, hear.) Be it recollected, in vindica tion of the Chinese Government, in making these solemn and repeated applications to Captain Elliot, that Captain Elliot told them he had no power to control the smuggling trade of Canton, and when Capt. Elliot stated that he had no power to control the smuggling trade, was it to be expected after that the Chinese Government would confine themselves to communications with Capt. Elliot ? When Capt. Elliot, who professed to be the agent of this nation, and whom the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had called the representative of her Majesty, declared that he was unable to keep her Majesty's subjects in obedience to the laws of China, was it to be supposed after that the Chinese Government would still waste their time in fruitless de clamation, and not have recourse to other measures more conducive to the purposes they had in view ?—( Hear, hear.) On the 20th November, 1837, there was another edict issued against the receiving ships, and in that edict it was threatened that the trade would be stopped; on the 22d of December a similar edict was issued, and another was issued in January, 183 i. He was sorry to fatigue the House by entering into those detaiis, but it was only just to the Chinese Government to show with what exemplary patience they had striven by repeated efforts to break the slumbers of the Noble Lord, and to rouse him into exer tion.—( Cheers.) It had been said that lethargy was not a quality for which the Noble Lord was distinguished, and because the Noble Lord had been a meddler in one part of the world, that was to be an excuse for his doing nothing in another part of the world. But the Noble Lord, in the very few things he did, had created as much mischief as in these things which he did not.—(Cheers. ) The Noble Lord continually instructed Captain Elliot in his representative character, to substitute for the word " Pin" some less objectionable phrase, that was to say, the Noble Lord continually urged Captain Elliot to go on, and endeavour to obtain a diplomatic and national recognition of his character. The Chinese Government in 1838, having found that their representations to the representa tive of her Majesty were in vain, began to be of opinion that some more awful warning was necessary ; and on the Ist of April, 1838, a Chinese was exe cuted within the square of the factory, with an i g nominious inscription above him, to the effect that he had been executed on account of his traitorous conduct with respect to the opium trade, and the exportation of Sycee silver. That was intended for the instruction of foreigners; but the Noble Lord was no more rroved by learning the severities which the Chinese were exercising on their own subjects than ho was by the remonstrances they had addressed to his representative. There bad been seizures of opium and a bloody collision—all that was ' communicated to the Noble Lord. The seizure of opium was frequent, and there was the arrest of Coolies. Then Captain Elliot, finding the pressure upon him increased, stopped the trade in the river, and declared it a lawless traffic, and thus by his influence, power, or authority, so far met the demands of the Chinese Government ; but that was not enough. The Chinese Government insisted on the remeval of the receiving ships. He regretted to say that Captain Elliot to the last had set his face against the removal of those ships, and had been supported by the Noble Lord in that course of con duct.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Edinburgh, came forward with feelings of philanthropy and humanity, and said that lie regretted and deprecated the opium trade, but that Right Hon. Gentle wan had sent his agent to support the opium trade, for that agent supported the British merchants, and set his face against the acts of the Chinese Government in attempting to remove those receiving ships.—( Cheers.) The Chinese Government went through a long series of expedients from the month of September, 1836, to the month of January, 1839, to endeavour to impress upon the Noble Lord and his agents the policy of their measures. For two years and a half they had persevered in one long, unvarying course, and both Imperial and Pro vincial Governments had used every lawful endeavour to suppress the opium trade, and had adopted every amicable means of making that intention known to the agents of the British Government.—( Hear, hear.) Their communica tions were treated with contempt and neglect, both by the Noble Lord and the British authorities in China. At length the last step was taken by the Chinese, of actually strangling a man in the square.—( Hear, hear.) It was said that that was an insult to the feelings of the promoters of the contraband traffic, who had been the cause of the death of the wretched man, and who, it was hoped by the Chinese Government, would, by such a dreadful exhibition, have learned the responsibi lity under which they acted. Mark the condt.ct of Cap tain Elliot, as approved of by the Noble Lord. Captain Elliot, knowing that the arrival of the Commissioner was to be expected, said he should consider himself bound not only to the protection of British persons, but likewise of British property ; the meaning of that being, he would instruct the whole force of the English in Canton to re sist any attempt that might be made by the Chinese to confiscate the opium. The confiscation only took place after a regular gradation of measures on the part of the Chinese. But then they were told that the Chinese ought not to have seized the persons, and the Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh stated they had seized persons without proof of their guilt. How was it possible for them to have proof except the notoriety of their being engaged in the trade, and how else were they to get hold of the opium—how were they to stop the trade? Had they not a moral right to stop the trade ?—( Hear.) Was it not sheer hypocrisy to be eloquent in words against the opium trade, and yet to pour out all the stores of elo quence and sarcasm against every measure adopted by the Chinese Government, and to turn a deaf ear to every en treaty of the Chinese Government to suppress the trade ? Hon. Gentlemen opposite would better have discharged their duty, and would have discharged it with more satisfaction to their constituents if, with less loud protesta tions on the subject of the opium trade, they had shoe. n an honest desire to encourage its suppression, instead of discouraging those laudable efforts which the Chinese made to break np the depot by which the trade was carried on, and altogether to repel it from their shores.— (Cheers.) Another indignant demonstration of the Right Hon. Gentleman was that the Chinese had confounded the innocent with the guilty ; and when he (Mr. Glad stance) first learned that the Chinese had surrounded the British in Canton, and placed them in duresse, he confessed that he thought it was a cruel and monstrous act on the part of the Chinese, be lieving, as he did, that it was impossible the British community could, to a man, have been engaged in that traffic. But what was the fact? There were 200 per sons confined. Had the Right Hon. Gentleman inquired how many innocent there were out of that number ? ( Hear, hear.) Did the Right Hon. Gentleman suppose there were five innocent among the 200? If he did not, what became of his eloquent denunciations? But if the com munity in general wereinvolved in that trade—if the implica tion in it was the rule and not the exception, then he contended the Chinese were right in acting against the community in general.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Hon. Gentleman read an extract from a pamphlet by a Mr. King, in order to show that all the British in Can ton were either directly or indirectly connected with the opium trade ; yet with these facts before him the Right H m. Member for Edinburgh complained in most eloquent language, that the innocent had been confounded and punished along with the guilty. Where, he would ask, were the innocent to be found? The Chinese Govern ment, before having recourse to violent measures, had exhausted all other means within their power, of showing their firm determination of putting down the opium trade by confiscations, after edicts of all kinds had been tried— by every means within their power they had endeavoured to show their sincerity. It was the duty of the Noble Lord to have seconded these laudable endeavours. The Noble Lord said, or might say, that it was impossible to put a stop to the opium trade; but it was quite possible to have shown a hearty desire to concur with the Chinese Government—it was quite poss ible to have sent i away the receiving ships—true, the Right llo d n o . no i\ etrahebertratioier Edinburgh said, had tha t been it would ask, would now h?avellebescaoimd eitpiwraatsieaiml. po N s V si h bl a e t' t i o le that trade trade Did he know from what ports the opium was ex ported Gover nment from Bengal and Bombay? poppy, y , the encouragedeffeet themust have ported ? Did he know that nearly tlie i w ia n d ole i of it was culti vations o t o f izeydthing there?els cripple the trade, and eventually altogother ( Hear, hear.) oble Lord else than i I t a n d e knew that the opium trade was denounced by the Chinese o Government —that it was mischievous ia all its results. b to ee l n ia t e siureria_ftrij's.sed it.— It wise his baunden duty, therefore, to have come down to the House, and ask for the assistance of the Legislature to put an end to it. It was then said that the Sovereign had been insulted in the person of her representati ve ; h e r how was it show n that he was so ? Was he the repre sentative of the Sovereign because he said h had no power to pot an end to the o pium trade, nor interfere with or control or punish British offenders? Was it shown by his saying he was so, or by his being acknowledged as such by the Chinese? That book proved that the Chinese had never recognized Captain Elliot in any such character; they recognised him as a person sent there to control and go vern the British trade, and in no other character. In palliation of the conduct of Captain Elliot, but not in palliation of that of the Government, he would say that whenever Captain Elliot showed a disposition to check the smuggling trade, then, and not till then, did the Noble Lord complain of him; when he asked for fresh instruc tions and fuller powers, he was met by a contemptuous neglect of all his demands. The Noble Lord refused to give him fresh instructions, or to extend his powers. Captain Elliot in the spring of last year, identified him self with the opium trade. It was distinctly declared by him ; on the 13th March, he stated that he had then made up his mind to direct the British at Canton to resist any attack upon themselves on their property. The Noble Lord adopted that act of Captain Elliot's along with all the rest. Were they then to be told that the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet had no bearing upon the question of war ? Could any one doubt that the vote of that night— i if the House voted that night—that the war was mainly at- 1 tributable to the culpable negligence of her Majesty's Go vernment, would have a direct bearing upon the ques tion, and that it would be their duty, in the first place, to declare that there were great evils connected with the trade in opium ; and that, in the second place, they would be shifting the responsibility of the war upon the shoulders of the Government; and, while so doing, they would be im posing upon themselves the moral responsibility of resorting to negotiation, and to endeavour to make reparation for the past injuries inflicted on the Chinese, before we at all con templated making reprisals ? The Right Hon. Gentleman complained that no one upon that side of the House had alluded to the war; he (Mr. G.) was very much deceived indeed if he had not heard the Right Hon. Baronet de nounce the war as one in which success would bring no honour, and defeat entail everlasting disgrace—(Cheers) —and he doubted very much whether, even upon the most purely technical principles, they had a right even to make exceptions to the seizure of opium by the Chinese. Much had been said respecting the motion being brought forward for party purposes—he confessed that he cared little for such a charge, it was one sure to command a cheer ; but, coming from either party, it meant nothing, and whether there were party purposes in this case or not there were merits—the principles of justice were deeply involved, and the Government would hereafter be called upon to show cause, and good cause, why such a war had been entered on. It was probable, or perhaps nearly certain, that we cannot obtain those terms which, with equity, we might demand without a dis play of force.—(Loud cheers.) But what were we about to do? We were going to exact reparation for insults and compensation for the seizure of pro perty, and that without ever having asked the Chinese for any explanation whatever. The British community in Canton having declared that they were determined to carry on the trade in opium, and Captain Elliot, having declared that he had no power to put an end to it, and having re fused to carry on the legitimate trade at the usual place, namely, Wharnpoa, where the Chinese were anxious that it should be carried on, Captain Elliot said, " No, we'll go to Lintin "—the very focus of the smuggling trade, which naturally excited the suspicion of the Chinese that that trade was to be carried on as before. The Chi nese had no other means of putting a stop to that trade which they so much disliked. They had no armament, and therefore were possessed of no other means of expel ling the British than by the refusal of supplies and poison ing the wells.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) To do the Chinese justice all that they had done was to allege that they had poisoned the wells. They had given full notice of their intention, and their will to drive them from that port.—(Cheers.) They had a full rig ht, he asserted, to drive them from that port when they were car- Qing on an infamous and atrocious trade, which was protected by the agent of the Home Government ; there fore he (Mr. Gladstone) did not see upon what ground it could be urged that the Chinese had no right to drive them from their shores. It was a war of the grossest injustice—a war the most likely to crown this country with disgrace.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh had talked in most eloquent lan guage of the animated effect of the flag of England floating over the walls of Canton. They were all aware of the animated and soul-stirring effect which that flag had had on the battle-field, and when seen waving over the walls of a conquered torn, but that effect was caused by the fact that that flag had always been associated with the protection of the oppressed, and on behalf of law and national rights, or with honourable commercial enterprises. —(Cheers.) But now, under the auspices of the Noble Lord, that flag was hoisted for the purpose of protecting a contraband traffic, for the first time.—( Loud cheers.) He was perfectly assured that the Government could never persuade that House to abet them in so unjust and cruel a course. Supposing they were entirely to set aside the illegality of the opium trade, and the justice or pro. priety of the war, still the charge against the Noble Lord remained equally complete. Whether the opium trade was right or wrong, the Noble Lord bad been equally neglectful of his duty. The circumstances which had been brought under his notice daring a period of several years—which he had brought to his knowledge even up Ito April, 1839—were all of them circumstances which called upon him for effective interference ; whatever kind of inter ference it might have been, his (Mr. G.'s) own opinion was, that that interference ought to have been for the effectual suppression of the opium trade, and that he trusted would be the opinion of the House, as shown by the vote of that night, although undoubtedly the Chinese might have been guilty of some wrong acts, but still they had substantial justice on their side in this question. It was the duty of the Noble Lord to have suppressed the opium traffic, and if the Noble Lord had ever read these papers--( Hear, hear)—it might be a matter of reasonable doubt whether he had ever done so or not—(Loud cheers)—it was more charitable to the Noble Lord to suppose that he had not read them, considering the con duct which he had pursued, and until he heard it from the Noble Li ird himself he (Mr. G.) would never suppose they had ever been perused by him. The Noble Lord had done all in his power to keep the House in the dark,'and when he had produced the papers, he gave them in the form of one great chaos, which rendered it almost impos sible for any one to understand them. It was more charitable to the Noble Lord to suppose he had not read them, than to suppose that having read them, he had been so negligent of the first principles of his duties. He, and those who acted with him, asserted that the war was chargeable upon the negligence and indolence of theroble Lord. It was caused first by the continuance o the smuggling trade in opium ; again by the murder on the 17th of July, which Captain Elliot had not the power either to prevent or to punish, and it was further caused by the passage of the Thomas Ceutts to Canton, which the Gallant Captain could have prevented if the Noble Lord had furnished him with the necessary powers. The Noble Lord was chargeable with that war ; on the Government rested the undivided responsibility, although, of course, if the vote of that night negatived the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet, then, of course, the House would become participators in the wrong. Mr. WARD, who was very inaudible throughout his speech, said the Hon. Member who had last addressed the House, as he always did with great sincerity of feeiing and much power, had the merit of being the first in the course of the debate who had given any clear indication of the policy of the party to which he belonged. He had told them that he did not wish to avoid the opium question—he had told them that he bad very few scruples. Ile proved the justice of his own definition, by telling the House that from first to last, in all the proceedings that had taken place, however much they might be at variance with the intercourse of civilized nations, he conceived the Chinese to be entirely in the right. ( Hear, hear, hear.) He had justified tho blockade of the English factory -he had justified the seizure of the innocent and the guilty together—he had justified the poisoning of the wells --(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches) —along the whole line of the coast of China, in order to deprive of fresh water the English women and children—(" Oh, oh," from the Opposition benches)—who it was admitted had nothing to do with the importation of opium, and who had been expelled by the Imperial Commissioner, at three hours' notice, from Macao.—( Hear, hear.) He blamed Capt. Elliot for not having given up all the English ves sels, amounting to fifty, not one-third of whom had ever been implicated in the opium trade, when they were threatened by the Imperial Commissioner with fleets of fire ships, which he had adopted as a sort of coast guard. The Hon. Member went further, and blamed Captain Elliot because, in a drunken brawl in which seve ral English and American sailors were engaged, and in which a native was killed, and in which it was impossible to ascertain even the nation of the party. He blamed Capt. Elliot because he had not given up an innocent man to the Chinese authorities.—( Cries of ",No, no.") Mr. GLADSTONE—Not a word of the kind. , Mr. WARD would appeal to the Hon. Members near him, whether he did not state that that was one of the causes of the outbreak, and one of the causes which swelled the list of their enormities against the Chinese.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member had told them what would be the policy of his party if the present motion suc ceeded, and it appeared to him ( Mr. Ward) mostnd n r anti- - English pulley, namely, that they would British received, ot d ema nation I p i a ad ration for the injuries and insults the B received, but that they would make repairaadtioanlanfostrattehd,e ou trages that had been committed. He i that negotiations should p r ecede any acts of hostility, and he trusted suc h would be ti ie case in the present instance. The Hon. Member admitted, however, that he thought it was impossible to carry on their trade in China without an a rmament.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Al. though he laid the whole blame of the present diffi culties upon the Government, be had omitted to point out one single act which they could have done to avoid hostilities. They had been told that the Duke of Wellington had traced out a course of policy which would have been successful, if the Noble Lord had the courage to carry it out. Now, he (Mr. Ward) had read the memorandum carefully, and he sought in vain for that course of policy to which the Hon. Member referred. In addition to his recommendation, that there should be two vessels of war stationed in the river, he found the Duke of Wellington was wrong upon two cardinal points. The Noble Duke attributed the failure of Lord Napier's mission to hishaving taken up his residence in Canton, but Captain Elliot had succeeded in proving that it was not in conse quence of any objection to his residence in Canton, but to his having made his demand without the observance of these forms and ceremonies which were so necessary in any intercourse with the Chinese authorities. Now, in consequence of the wise and discreet course of policy that ' had been pursued by Captain Elliot for the last two years, he had succeeded in carrying all those points which the Duke of Wellington had considered unattainable. One was the allowing the English Superintendent to re side at Canton ; another was, the obtaining an imperial eiliet, recognising him in his special character as distinct from that of the East Indian supercargoes—he had thus obtained a consular power, which had never been acceded by the Chinese before.—( Hear, hear.) He be lieved the papers relative to the present subject had been as carefully examined, and by as many Hon. Members as had investigated any subject ever brought before that House, and he should, therefore, bring his observations upon there into the narrowest possible compass. He was themore anxious, however, to make these observations, because his opinions differed from those of many of his constituents. In the year 1833 Lord Glecelg stated what were the views of the Government with regard to the opium trade. He stated that the sys tern under which the trade was carried on was regular and complete, and although it was contrary to the laws of China, it was still protected by the authorities of that country. In these opinions, expressed by a member of the Cabinet at that time, the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth entirely concurred. He admitted, however, that the evils that had grown out of the opium trade were not then anticipated. The Right Hon. Baro net who opened the debate, and all those who had succeeded him, had dwelt much on the silence of the Government, and the want of instructions, and had attributed to that all the difficulties that had arisen; but not one of these Hon. Members had pointed out where there had been any defi ciency of instructions to the Superintendent at Canton. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to argue that up to the year 1837, there was no interception of the friendly intercourse between Captain Elliot and the Chinese, and no inti mation of the difficulties which had since occurred. That although the Hon. Member for Newark had spoken of the justice of the Chinese law, there was no subterfuge to which they did not resort to evade inflictin; the law of homicide. That Captain Ellliut, though he thought he had put down the river trade, which he had attempted on his own responsibility, bat merely by the influence of moral rather than legal power, appeared to believe it was impossible to extinguish altogether a trade in which both nations were so much interested, and still hoped that it would be legalized ; and with reference to the despatch of the Bth May, 1838, which had been so much commented on, no other course could have been taken by the Govern ment, but that which it intimated they had adopted, that they could not sanction the illicit traffic in opium, and that its responsibility must be wholly borne by the parties who engaged in it. We had never been called upon to aid other Governments in puttin g down smuggling—the Spanish Government depended upon their own guards costes, and yet it was notorious that nine-tenths of the English trade with Spain was carried on by the illicit introduction of goods through Gibraltar. The Spanish Government did not call upon us to interfere, and why should the Chinese? Smugglers ran their own risks, and knew well that they had no right to call upon their Consuls to protect them. But they had been told that something must be done with regard to the opium trade, but Hon. Gentlemen opposite did not tell them what that something was to be. If the war was, as stated by the Hon Member for Woodstock, an unholy and an unjust war, ought they not to accept of every coo dition which it might please the Chinese to impose? ' There was nothing in the speech of the Right Honourable Baronet to indicate the course of policy which he thought ought to have been adopted, and they were called upon to give their vote upon a motion which must produce a most detrimental effect upon our commerce, which would lay our trade prostrate at the feet of Commissioner Lin, and transfer the whole of our traffic into the hands of the Americans and the Dutch.—( Cheers.) He believed that nothing except the concurrence of the Chinese and British authorities could put down the opium trade, any other measure would only have the effect of scattering it over a large surface, of aggravating its evils, and of putting it beyond the possibility of suppression ; but when he was called upon to say that from first to last the Chinese had been right, as had been asserted by the Hon. Member forNewaik, and that no attack upon the persons and properties of British subjects in China, however aggravated it might be, gave this country any right to interfere, be must pause.— ( Cheers.) It was notorious that under the old system the Commissioners and the Hongs all derived a large revenue from conniving at the trade ; and although the Hon. Mem ber for Newark had asserted that which no other person had yet had the boldness to assert—that no fault whatever could be found with any of the proceedings of Commis sioner Lin—that he was perfectly justified in shutting up the whole British population of Cantou—(Cheera)— though that Hon. Gentleman approved of the expulsion from Macao of his countrymen, under circumstances of the greatest severity—(Cheers)—yet he could not but think that these circumstances called for interference with the Chinese Government. He would now refer to another point, to which, however, the Hon. Member had not referred. He alluded to the exac tion of a bond by the Commissioner from every British ship entering the river of Canton, which would place every vessel and crew, whether engaged in smuggling or not, wholly at the mercy of the Chinese authorities. He knew whether the Hon. Member would justify the conduct of the Chinese in this instance also. He had represented them to be a simple and an unsophisticated people ; but he (Mr. Ward) believed them to be a people of great shrewdness and cunning, and was riot disposed to put such faith in them as the Hon. Member seemed disposed to do, and he thought that all British subjects ought to be doubly cautious how they trusted themselves in the power of the Chinese. The bond, which was to be found at page 72, provided that every ship should be liable to the penalty of confiscation, and every person found on board be liable to death, if a single pound of opium should be found on board ; so that it was in the power of any officer of China, of any Mandarin, who, through being refused a bribe, might have an enmity to the captain of any vessel, to sub ject that vessel to confiscation, and her crew to death, without any appeal from the Chinese tribunals. Upon this bond the Imperial Commissioner had insisted in the strongest possible manner, and he had had the good ness to explain that, if these ships during their voyage had had any opium on board, which opium had at any period of the voyage been transhipped into any other ship and after wards been landed on any part of the coasts of China—if, in fact, by any subterfuge of the Chinese law, any connection whatever could be proved between any quantity of opium and any of the British ships, the penalties would be en forced. Captain Elliot had offered the right of search in stead of this bond, which was rejected. Captain Elliot had proposed that he should give a certificate signed by himself, that the ships had no opium on board, but this also had been rejected by the Imperial Commissioner. It was not on the question of the morality of the opium trade, but it was on the disregard of the law of nations, manifested by the Chinese, that he grounded his support of the policy which had been pursued by her Majesty's Government. He saw no chance beteceen the course they now proposed to follow, and that of humiliating. and ire feared unavailing concessions, so long as China re mained in its present state.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would, however, impress on the Noble Lord his earnest wish that every effort would be made to conciliate the people cf China, and that the friendly relations which had till of late prevailed between that country and this would be borne in mind. We were the stronger power, and we might inflict on China incalculable evil. We would have to deal with a people whose habits and resources were an. known to any, but who had in many instances given proofs of their friendly feelings towards this country. He trusted these effects would be remembered by her Majesty's Go vernment, and that when an armament arrived on the coasts of China, hostilities would, if possible, be averted by every means that could be resorted to for the purpose of settling our disputes on reasonable terms. At all events he should give his vote against the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, believing that her Majesty's Go vernment would pursue the wisest course, and that they were as likely to succeed in that course, as if power were transferred to their political rivals.—( Hear.) Mr. G. PALMER would refer to two questions which he had formerly put to her Majesty's Government. He had put one of those questions to the Noble Lord the Secre tary for Foreign Affairs, and that question was, whether there were not other despatches besides those which had been lied before the House ? The Noble Lord said that there were, but that they did not immediately relate to the present question. The other question had been put by him to the President of the Board of Trade, and which he wished to repeat. It was whether any ships might be allowed to clear from London for the ports of China. The an swer was that there would be no impediment to ships clearing out of the ports of China, and that her Ma jesty's Government had no advice to offer, but that which bad been already given by the Superintendent in China. He had put the question in February last, and at that moment her Majesty's Government were sending military stores on board of men-of-war, and they lied authorised commanders of ships to carry goods to Chita for p'irposcs of trade. With regard to the character of the Chinese people, he should say that it was greatly misunderstood. They were not the barbarous people they were supposed to be. Some of their laws were of the most humane character. One of those laws con tained an order for offering assistance to shipwrecked travellers, and another contained an order for affording protection to people in distress.—( Hear, hear, hear. ) More, than one ship dismasted and disabled in a gale, had been refitted and repaired by the Chinese Government, and furnished by pilots, without the charge of a single dollar. He (Mr. G. Palmer) was himself the commander of one of those ships.—( Hear, hear.) It was too mush the habit cf Englishmen to look down on foreigners, espe cially on those at a distance. The Hon. Member went on to say that the shipowners who had signed the bond which had been referred to, meant only to express that they were not smugglers. He then quoted a speech of Mr. Jardine, toting that foreigners could go to sleep with open doors in China—( Hear, hear)—and that the dealings of the people were usually honest, and their manner to strangers . courteous, With this character of the Chinese, ought they to be so contemptuously stigmatised as barbarians by Gentlemen opposite ? Now, as to the " Pin " point— the superscription " Pin," on the memorials to the Chinese ' Government, was only a matter of form ; as if be (Mr. Palmer), writing to the Noble Lord (Palmerston), subscribed himself " your humble servant," though of course the Noble Lord would not imagine that he was so. Now, as to the opium trade, the Noble Lord professed not to interfere. Would that there had iudeed been no inter ference—would that there had not been a complete under standing between the Noble Lord and the Superintendent as to secretly keeping up the trade without committing the Government. As to what had been said respecting the outer waters of China, he wished the House to bear in mind that those waters were as much within the territory of China as Sea Reach was within that of England. Lintiu no further from Canton than Margate was from The Chinese bad a right to seize the London. The cou l d y ra an d not goods seize r b w e i t property,h i n artli m iunf whichand when smug could t h e arm under the sm u e g y g e l s e r so by f and attempted tookFac oneto attem pted to release hi m—the y had no other course open ry t h a n to seize the Ministerial officer hinaslef. The Hon. Member then went through a statement of all the transae. tions out of which the present crisis had arisen, to show that the conduct of the Superintendent (Mr. Elliot) was in many respects injudicious and blameable, and that he acted upon an understanding with the Government at home that this trade was not to be effectually suppressed. He coneideeed the course pursued by the Government was a most unfair attack upon the Chinese, who bad only at tempted to put down a traffic that was atteinded with the most injurious effects upon the health of the inhabitants of that country. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by ex pressing his hearty concurrence with the motion. On the motion of Mr. HOGG, the debate was ad journed till to-morrow. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'Clock. EVENING EDITION