The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. TUESDAY, NAY 13. THE House proceeded,. -as usual, to Westruinster 7 Hall. T).ley returned Soon 'atter three, when an Order Was made to proceed further on the Trial of Lord Vis Count Melville to-morrovi, and a - Ne'ssage sent to the AP* . Commons to ac r quaint them therewith'. The Order of the Day on the Slave Importation ,Restriaion Bill was discharged, on the Motion. of the Du Of-CL E, :and renewed for Friday. The , West India 'and' American Trade Bill was read a third titrie.and passed; dridj:Message sent to tho,House,ofCbrnmOns foaequaint them therewith. Strangers were for a short linie ecluded whilst the House discussed some matter of Privilege. After our' re-admilsion: the" Earl of WEsTmo4- LA ND presented a Petition tiOni certain Merchants and Traders of Manchester against the Slaye Import ation'lleStrietion Bill ; was ordered to lie op the Table._ r Stiangers were again for a short time excluded. • 'After our Ke N a,dmission; ths consideration of IN - Majesty's Message relative to Earl Nelson was, on the Motion' of ford deferred till' to- inorr,ow.—=Aajo,unied till to-morrow (thiS day). ffol7qE OF CagIITQNS. Ttliso c; m Tatowts brought pp the Report of the Cohunittee on Abe 'Returns -relative to Residence' of pler g y. He gave 'notice; that as long as be had seat in that House, he should move for .similarße turns'annually, for the purpose 'of she Wing how far the Mt enforcing the residence of the Clergy was complied with.=—The Report was ordered to 4e on the Table. A Message from the Lords informed the House, that their Lordships : would proceed ferther in -the Trial of Lord Melville 10-morrow ; and that their LOrdships had passed a Bill to enable His Majesty in Council to grant permiSsion for importing certain articles into our Colonies in the West Indies in Neu tral Ships in "time of War, to which they desired the concurrence of the House. Mr;.HuasT presented Petitions from the Barristers and . AttOrrie's of the Borough Marshalsea Court, against the Southwark, Small Debt Recovery Bill now pending. - 2 On the Motion of Lord MORPETH, several Ac l Counts relating to the Amount of the. Debt. of the East India Company, at their several.. Presidencies; and the interest payable thereon, were ordered to be laid before the House. ' `Bir P. STEPIIENS presented an Account of the spianiity of Iron and Iron Wares used in the Navy for the last five years.- Mr. MATTTIEWS brought in a Bill for amending the General Turnpike Aa, by preventing narrow wheeled waggons from being drawn by more than four horseg.L—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. Mr-ROBSON gave ,notice, that it was his inten-. tion on Friday next to move:fdr some Papers relating to, the Barrack bepart went:. The Irish - Debenture .Interest Bill was read a second time, .anu to-morrow. • The IriSh Loan Bill went through a Committee ; the Report to Abe received to-morrow. Also' -the Irish Treasury Bills ' The further 'consideration of .the Report of . the Irish Butter Bill Was put off till Friday. Mr. PARNELL gave notice, that he would to-n or . row move for an Account,ot , the Amount of Bank Of England and Bank of Ireland Notes in circulation. Tne Mutiny Bill was read a second time., and or dered to' be committed to-morrow. Mr. CORRY presented a Petition from several Citi ?ens of 'Limerick against the Bill pending for the better paving and lighting of that city. It EP EA,L OF THE ADDITIONAL FORCE ACT. tleman.- He hed'noobjet'tion to see the experiment tried : but. it should be without risking the dimitili tion of the existing Airny. ~ It was contended, that unleSS,%the pra&ice w 4 general, it would give - rise to inconsistent anditividkeus dislEtions. BLit he Main pined, that there..wOnld be a vist expencg and in- Convenience in re-engaging the men, if ;it was general. 'feneral LOFTUS had voted for 'the Additional Force .40, jib the - hope that it would have been ef feetuaL If the parishes had raised the men, he was sure the 'Mt - would. - have been highly beneficial; for local kn s ONVledge and personal connexion would have prevented 'desertion! But the Parish Officeis, insteadpf raising the men theinselves;raised them by the interventiou - of recruiting sergeants and crimps, and thus the- benefit was lost. A certain diStrie - t which had to fUrnish sixteen . men, *bad pbtained them from. - London,' by' the aid of a recreiting serjeant ; they were taken 'down and 'passed; and the next mernieg - fourteen of the sixteen deserted. Thus it was the ordinary' recruiting, and the high bounties, that - found the men ; and . Ministers were deceived if they thoUght men would engage-for gtiall sums, when' the Country had been so long accustom ed to these high bounties. He thought the - enlist : merit for a terra of yeai; must be produ6tive : he, had himself been employed to recruit fora term of years in the American War ;, when the general re:/ cruiting was Slack men were 'easily obtained, and no inconvenience was felt but he Would have the engagement for a term of 2 years, whether it Was for five years, or seven years, always coupled with a concurrent engagement-during War. It would geL ilerally happen, that the Men, on - 'revisiting their hoines, we-uld return and engage'forlife. He was Sure the improvenient of Chelsea would give infinite se( isfaCtion, and' do vast service, particularly in -ex empting these Veterans from the hardship of being called out after 21. years service ; • now they had not thateelOMption till after 25 years. Lord DE BLAQUIERE said a few 'words in a very low tone; in support Of the enlistment for a term of years_ Mr: YORKE was sure that the Right Honourable Secretary having suffered the whole of the busi ness to proceed with such a dignified silence; could not now be moved to depart from that silence by any thing he co:114 say. lie claimed a right to discuss every - part of the Plan the Right Hon.Gentleroadhad stated. 'The Right Hon. Gentleman had concluded his statement with a Motion for the repeal of this Aft, and thereby establish a connexion which every one had a right to :preserve. Ile thought the other ,parts of the Plan ought to be brought distinatly before the House, and not he suffered to operate,longer upon the Army and the Country in the loose forms that report had given to them. He had opposed the Additional Force Bill when it was brOught for ward, not on the principle, which was the same with .that of-the Arniy of Reserve Act brought for- Ward by- him, but on the Mode of applying the principles. He thOught it very wrong not to preserve the ballot in some,shape. It was a system the Country had beep accustomed to for above halt' a century, and that had contributed much to give us the greatest Military Force (fer he considered the Naval Force as a etilitary,. one) that any Conntry of the same-popula tion ever, had. He feared the Right . Honourable Gentlemen -had no better ieasen for repealing this Bill than some prejudice caught when they: were on the side of the House opposite that where they now sat, and a sort of obligation, as-they thought; to redeem the pledges they had given. But let them recoiled that they .were the sworn servants of the Crown, and bound to . give the best advice in their power, without_ prejudice or partiality.— This Bill had been more efficacious than he ex peCtecl„ It produced 10,000 men annually in aid of the Army. The average of the ordinary re cruiting was 12,000. The average redu&ion by casualties, including the men discharged at the Peace of Amiens, was 15,000. The ordinary recruiting was therefore short of the casualties by 3000 ; but cou pled with the Additional Force Ad, •it exceeded it by 7000. It-was prudent to calculate en a probable loss of n'large proportion of our Army, in case the French should invade us. There were losses in every battle. It was therefore necessary to have a large subsidiary . .force. He preferred the Army of Regerve Mt, and the ballot, to this A&; but as this 'Act found such a number. of men in conjundien with the or-, dinary recruiting, he would not have it repealed.-=- He thought it herd, that five weeks after the general statement, the House had yet no means of judging of the particulars of -the . Right Hou. Gentleman's new measures. , There was not any calculation of the numbers that were likely to quit the Army on the expo - ation of the first period; nor how many of them engaged for five years in the Arnerimit War, had re enlisted at the expiration of that period. The Right Honourable Gentleman's Plan was not founded on British pra6tice, nor on British principles. It never had been the pradice of a wise nation to discharge its Soldiers in tinge of War. He did not like imitating the practice of the French Monarchs, when the French Armies were beat by-the English and the. Pressaiis. He would rather imitate the French pra&ice now ; for though he was *sure the English were capable of beating them, they, had .beat every other nation. He still pressed the maintenance of the ballot: for if in consequence of the disuse of 'it a Militia c 0614 not be raised on the breakine out of a War, 'the Ministers who should have laid it aside would deServe to lose their heads. . „ Mr. WI:IC 16FIAN moved ,the Order of the Day for the third 'reading of the: Bill fOr repealing the Addi tionalfaree.Aat. Sir J. PULTENEY defended the course of pro ceeding in opposition to the Bill.' It was impossible Government Could ask the repeal of a Bill of this im portance without giving some reasons for it: He sup posed those reaso..is to be contained in the military details the Right - Hon. War Secretary had unfold ed in the speech with which he had prefaced his 'no ' tion for leave to bring in this Bill, and therefore it Was fair to consider this Bill with reference to those details. One part of the Right Uon. Gentleman's . plan he highly appr(34ed, and that was the improve ment of chel.i,ea. • A soldier's condition did nut pen- Mit the acquisition of much property. It was, there fore, fit that.the State he served 'should provide as well as it could with propriety do, for his comfort in the decline of life. He considered the plan inecient Misrany present purpose ; and he thought it ex tremely unwise to fieek for distant and Specu!-Itive ad vantages at-such a risk as it tended immediately to create: It' had been said that an immediate increase -tobur Regular Force was necessary, and he had heard that. measnres A 0 that effeccl Were to have been pro posed by the-late Chan6ellor of the Exohequer. But this plan had nothing immediate in it; The object WEIS to Mist inpn' for a shorter'time,. in the-opinion that they wonld7engage in greater numbers,. and that on the expiration' of the terM, they would engage' again, qr others' would more easily be found in their room. This was zi speculation in which heWas'not • s:) sanguine as the Right Rononrable Gentleman ;' but at all , events 110 was-averse to the diminution of the Aany during war. - Of the fourteen' General Officers Wilo. ; - ie opinons. had: been taken on this point, eleven were decidedly. against discharging, the meh in time of War ; the other three were not so decided, becanse • • that part of the question ,had not come under their - Consideration, Jt was not the pra6tice of any'country. in Europe to discharge men in tithe of War, thOugh their term of Servicemay ,have expired.. The ordoh valice of the French Mimarchy, in 18!8, contained ,an express exception ti) discharging the men in time of War, though thoir service of eight . 1 - Tars may have expired ' they had only n o a ddi t i ona l- allowance per in 'n.,11 the clhi of the War, when they were dis- Charged. He 'thoughts the Second Battalions, ender the ArMy of Reserve. Act, and the Additional Force Aa s , the best system for keeping dp the Army of this 52ountry;• and he could not consent ;to the repeal of the'Aeditienal Force Ad, until a better system was , ffeee'd than bit proposed by the' Rig ht tion;Gen.. Colonel EYRE considered' the Bill for the repeal Of the Additional Force Mt not as part of the Right Konotrable Gentleman's PlaD, but as miking way for It. When this impediment was removed the Plan -wbuld'come after.. The Additional Force Mt \vas'a bad MeaSure; and therefore it was right to &et rid Of it. This he said, considering it without reference to any thing else. If it had n ,, t produced the men by the ever boos 'of the parish, officers, but by a com, petition which checked the ordinary' recruiting, the mischief was evident: The A& it was said had become operativ6 from the thne that it had been explained by the Inspeding FieldOf:leers. He disliked this expla nation. These were not the constitutional explainers hut the Deputy Lieutenants. 'They were better explainers to the Crimps than to the. Parish Officers, and therefore the men' were not' had for less than .26, guineai. if ' redu:Jibil was not made in this, the country would not have less than 6,000,0001. to ex- pencl in . bountiei. It was not only a more efficient system that was necessary, but a more economic one: The improvement of the condition of the. Soldier would a - tfbnl gr , ;:at inducements to enter into the ser- vice. The lli - hitation of the term would also attrAct . reater numbers, mad better men.: - Theieetliiiige • ;nee c dis Obedience I t would be better to c:eleae Would tend to improve the cherader of the Soldier, 1 the phraseology, of 'Ads in future,. and submit thee.. which was alio e'tnost essential point: '. to tile good sense, wisdom, and discretioi - tof the .211,-. Secretary iVI NDH4 ill eveuld say a few c ords People. He deprecated the triumph which had been on etie preseut.queatien, *hough - theyery 'able Oh- assumed over a measure..originating with a gaeat arici nervations made by the Hon Gentleman: who had illusrricese . Statesmase If .he might judge' 'from just sat down, and for which he considered 'himself what the Right Honourable Gentleman had said, he . much indebted to him, almost rendered - any thing really believed that he had not even rea d the Ad. from him superfluous. , it was rot necessary fler'him . which henotv proposed to Repeal. • The Right ko, to account for his Silepce,ol4 the last occasion,- When noorable Gentleman had talked a. great deal on a this busineSs was discussed : that. silence seemed to fin-tiler night of the blind Cyclops, that after a good have been deemed eienturpeliogs, but uptruly. The deal of puffing and hamme r i ng h a d pro d uce d a most fiet Was,' that the - Geptiemen oppos'ite hide on that defariae measure. He Would tell that Right Hon. - . • occasion, spok,ep - on every thing but the question be- qentlerp 4 n, however, that with all his 'accuracy, it foie the frouie.. He did tiot depy their right to go would befpund necessary to insert a Clause in the into_ collateral subjects; all lie said was, that ; in Bill before the House, to remedy an omissive to that case; it did not become' necessary to reply provide for the wives and children of the soldiers to • thein. They had almost entirely confined theme who, were raised under the Anna , of Reserve Ad. selves to observations on what 'had nothing to do This Clause might be introduced by way of a little with the ,Addifirepal Force Ad- e -the intended mea• rider in the Hee. Gentleman's triumphal car. sure's, ail 'outline' of which he bad formerly sub- * Air, t SHERIPAN replied to the arguments that mitted to the IfouSe. NoW. were those measures _had just been urged. I t wou ld seem as ifthe Hon, ever'so bad, they had nothing to do with. the repeal pentle ma n opposite had held a Council pf Vv and pf the Additional_ Force Att. ,At -any rate they had deieemined, iit discussileg the merits of the mea-• were not more connected with the consideration of sure, to avoid eayipg a n y thing about it. He w ent it than it was itself:' The triode of discuseion which minutely into the consideretien pf the Additional ' the Hen. Gentlemen opposite had adopted, Was," as if Force eld, and contended, with his Right H on . at an entertainment every one should be a gu es t b ut F r i en d, t h at it had not been successful, except m in-. the master of the house * After dwelling for some stances in which its success had been obtained by 4 fiine 91 the nature 91• the Papers before the House, great injury to the general recruiting, by the intro he observed, that when in the first debate on this , dediett•of vice, and by a grpss yiolatipn of the Law.. 'subject he had beard a Noble LOrd opposite express J The indeMeity was demanded by justidea--for it a diSrelish fel - theM--ewlien he found that the Noble ►, - Would haee been .ai easy for the Parishei to bare, Lord had lost his taste for Papers, (like Sir R. De furnished elephants and rhiupcsro sof ae oseasless'aile CoVerfey; when he lost his roast beef app et i te ) l ie ~ t erms o f t h e 'Act. In tracing the progress oftthethought it was all over with him. ' Not being will- . • AEt, lie commented with peculiar severity on the ing, however, idimitate the example of•the Gen- . leetter from Lord Hawictisbury tp the Deputy Lieu denten opposite on this eubjed, 'he would confine tenants of Counties, dated the 31st of Decemher himself to the consideration of the A&; the repeal , last, Which he considered as Most atrocious, and as of which was now before' the House. ' For a year , involvieg in it a higherime and Misdemeanor, and after it tad passed nothing was heard' of *it—not s a gross violation of the Law: ' F rom any particitias only in the town but - in the country. Every bOdz '' tion in that Letter he completely acquitted the great was asking what had become of - it:. At last, it was Character. whom the Country had lost. The - .till considered dead. The' ) came the faniqus Letter froM before the House had . been called a triumph • ovgi Lord Illawkesbury, and, as appeared by 'the first vo- th4t great- man ; and something had been said of lume of Papers on the Table, a kind of coroner's hatred being entertained to his memory,. for one Inquest sat on the Ad. AS it seemed to be the fa- he diselaiined such a feeling. '.l*hrough, that it a shion in modern novels, to begin instead of to end f lustrioue s Charader's whg,e llfe he had been wal , with a marriage, by way of giving a newiturn, and fortunate enough to be in opposition to him; but astonishing their readers, so the details 'in these he did full justice to his transcendent talents*, to hit Papers commenced with the death . of the hero of . matchless eloquence, to hiS noble independence. them. He should be' very unwilling to dispbey the sw - ery human creature had failings : among his admonition de mortals nil, nisi tonum,' but the fa& S'were too great an impatience of controul, and top was that, he was not really deed - .. This was some great a love of power; but he firmly belie v ed that suspected. A looking-glass was applied to his m ou tl e, i n a ll hi s undertakings he was solely actuated by a and at was with joy found that he stained it with 'his • wish to secure the greatness and indepeedence qt breath. Immediately the whole apparatus cf the. his Conntry. Humane Society was set to work. Bellew's, flannels, The Bill was then read 3 third time without e . ..,.. hot water, and friCtion, were used with - persevering division. industry, and by slow degrees resuscitation began to , On the question that the Bill do pass, a conver take Place. The Ad, it seemed, ekes .tike those,aro- I sation .toole place en a suggestion made by Mr. matte plants which would not yield their scent until 1 PERCtVAL to adjourn the debate till to-morrow, in they had been chafed and rubbed a little. - Its title E order to allow time for preparing a Clause by Way was to provide a permanent foree. - Now it did any . of rider to the Bill,. re-einideig . the Clauses of th. , thing, and every thing but t'eat. -It had a mortal Army of Reserve Ad which ga ye a prov i s i on to t h e ,principle in its stamina, whi c h. m ust b r i ng i t to a' - wives and families" ,Of the 'men enlisted under that conclusion. Its success must be fatal to it.' He was Ad. The Motion that the Bill do pass was ulti= aware that it might be said,.and said truly, that theee • mately withdrawn ; and the further proceedings oe 'could be no danger_of its the's, by its suCcess, *com e ,the third wading of the Bill were adjourned till to misting a felo de se on its e lf. B u t h e conten d ed, . morrow f or the purpose proposed. that if it could succeed e 'euc:i must be the conse- ' Lord HENRY PETTY moved 'the Oeder of the quence ; for if the Aa should,send to the Regular Day for a Committee of the whole House to take Army a greater number than 9000 a 'year, it then into consideration His Majesty's most ' graciente wopld becoMe a losing cohcerfi—for what it fiw- Message. Dished more would go. inadiminutionof its quota, ' .0p the question that the Speaker do leave the and therefore it would soon supply the casualties, on . Chair, . • .9000 men.. And if the Bill were thus to succeed, Mr. s.roexe took- the opportunity of putting a how would it succeed? By cutting up all the regular question to the Right Honourable Secretery, 'When ' recruiting; bj introducing- into the Parishes every he proposed to bring forward the Bill which had kind of low and debasing vice ; • by, ind uc i ng th e been ordered, as it would be for 'the convenience; Churchwardens; these keepers of morels, those grave •of Gentlemen to be acquainted with the precise and sad men, whose business was to, shut up ale- f. day. houses, and by inducing Constables; whose civil. j ' Mr. Secretary Wneretteat replied, that if he was duty should teach them trekeep the-Jiing's peace, to prepsered to name a day, the eueetion of the' Ho , go about like so many•Serjeant Kites, telling droll uctarable Gentleman Would be un necessar y: H e stories, and singing jolly so n g s , s u c h as - , .1 "we shall lead m o r e happy li ves ' name the day. , By getting rid of brats and wives ; - Mr. YORKE, as the Bills had been some time since Who scold awe brawl both night andliaye . • • ordered, thought that it might he competept to any, . ~ Over the hills and far away." After all this depravation of eha ra de r an d conduct Member to move auother order that they , be forth, on the part of the Parish Offi cers , i t was probable with brought in. .Mr tC r • that they would not be very. successful in their new. Secretary INDRAM observed, that - if so . 4 • profession with the C os t ar P a i rm the Honourable Member m i g h t ma k ea M otion on ains and Ture hat un- maa the subjec t , but could not compe l hi m to ansWer • Appletrees of their village, e n a c count o f t his lucky " we ; " " we shall lead, questiOn. more happy live.." . He remembered it had been said o f tw The House then re s o l ve d i nto the Committee o French • Lord Howick in the Chair: Committee, - Officers, one of whom excl a i me d t o hi s mere, "Go Lord lIENI-0( _P e EI : Tt stated, that th e o bj e d on,•my brave lads !"- an d th e ot h er , " Let . us, go of the Resolution w hi c h h e s h ou ld h ave the honour on, my brave lads !" that the soldiers liked the latter. to submit to, the Cc:mm'ittee was, a Grant to Ea r l Officers were telling the rustics 6ftoe - better. He . rather thought th a t w h en / h e Parish ' Nelsen ofd sum of 50904 per a - nnu ' in, to be charged e m e rry lif e on the Consolidated Fund. And also a further which a soldier enjoyed,. that they would reply— G f - ~ l • , - . ': Grant o 190,0001.- the larger part of which was to If you think this so m e rry a 'life,- why do you' be applied to the purch ase of a H ouse an d Lands, t 0 - not go and. be a' soldier ?" Th e effeet 'that the Act be : and, although do necessar 'vested for ever in: his famil • would have on• Inc morals of the people, was _. of ' persuasion he cou ld use, would-be to in itself sufficient /o warrant its Repeal. * VC,''ith re-yduce the House t o adopt this Resoletiei, yet it was gard to the ignorance whi c h th e C ountr y h a d ex - pressed on the siibjec`d, impossible for nun, unless destit u t e o f t h ose feelings t ebjed, it was not iinigriciranee of , °ff 'which- no individual in' that H ous e could be he precise meaning of a pa r ti cu l er disuse,, but it was, A : uestLtute not to address a few words to the Com simply on the question, whether then or money .I'Zl:i . • rilittee . on ' the occasion.. He admitted that it was desired. The* late Ministers swore till they were one of the few gratifications lie' felt in the situation black in the face, that the Ad wasnot intended for. he ,filled to make this application. Much as lie felt the purpose of obtaini ng mone y. Th e. p eo pl e evou ld not believe them the necessity of economy, and a s y stem of saving in • ; by an odd perversity of disposi- the-exi expenditure of the public money, there was co tien, they would pay mon e y. Why.? B ecause , t h ey ' - saving nor any economy 'that could , ive knew that men could n o t b e h a d by th e Ad, en d there- satisfa b h him more ionthan the Grant o f P u bli c M oney was the intention of the Legisl a t u re. Th e j u d g a fore they could not persuade -themselves that such . which hi e, n this instance, meant t o propose—b'e- • Ment of the many w as i n this instance better than couse out of this Grant the C ountry would derive- re -essential advantages than could be corn - sated by any pecuniary considere' tions in Perpetua P t e in n g • that of the few. This was 3 question on . which s in , . the influence of great example. The House would the rustics in a Vestry were' more competent to de: , cide than all the Statesinen and politicians in Down-, not ex ,-, - • . ing-street. He alluded to the censure "expressed pa mm to enter into a -statement of the ' by an Honourable Gentleman the o th er evening, eminent Qualities and virtues of the distinguished No= of the Clause in theßill bef ore the H o bleman whose family was the'objeft of the G ran t h e • .use for . indern7 .wwas to Submit to the Committ ee ; b ut i t might be Such au indemnity could , not, be withh e ld . pitying" parishes' that had failed in furnisbin„d men, was { Permitted him to say, that i n no hi story, not even in Violating the maxim the British hiStory, wa s th ere recor d ed any person ' •• •- " memo tenaturr.d itnpescii;i!e:" ' 1 whose life and history afforded SQ perpetu a l a c l a i m a ' on the gratitude of his Country, as the life and history o t le I 0 , e whose services he proposed to It was, equalizing by a general remission instead of f I N 1.l Person. 'general enforcement. . ' remunerate—a life, the early adions of. which, if not Air. PERCIPAL argued at,corisiderable. length,: , contemplated through the splendordhislaterachieve- ageile,t the: Bill,' arid .filor2 partial:m-1r against the I inents, were sufficient t o cov e r hi s name with glory. Clausejust mentioned,' Whether cepsidered pro- i But-his early actions had bee n ec li pse d b y t h e bril- spel:.tively or retrospedivcly, the injustice - of - it was I Jiang of his subsequent exploits, and in proportion aliu - ming,' It tended to tell the Country, that if ne- .as his age"advanceds and his experience 'increased, cessity- rendered necessary any future harsh . Measure , in the sense proportion was ,he enabled'. te• give the ei Le g eisla ) tien they might find iudeinnity in syste- ' fullest.fullest.effea to the portentou s e x tent o f hi s talenii ' • • .