The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-04-30 00:00:00

Emptrial Parlianunt. HOUSE OF LORDS. THURSDAY, APRIL 25. SLAVERY, The Bishop of Hereford presented a petition from Hagley, in Shropshire, for the entire and immediate abolition of slavery. Similar petitions were presented by the Duke of Richmond, fr,mt Waterford ; by the Duke of Norfolk, from a parish in York ; by Lord Suffield (50 petitions), from several places in England and Wales ; by Lord Dundas, from Hereford; by Lord Barham, front Tunbridge, 'rudely, and Uppingham ; by Lord Sefton, front Hindley, Lancashire; by Earl Grey (for the Earl of Durham, from some places in that county ; by the Duke or Cleveland (four petitions), from places in the county of Dur ham; by the Earl of Morley (37 petitions), from several places in Devonshire. They were read, and ordered to lie on the table. The Duke of Norfolk presented a petition from the master and wardens of the corporation of cutler; in Sheffield, for regulat ingthe hours of working children in factories. ord SUFFILLD gave notice (we did not hear whether for to morrow or Monday) that he would present a petition relative to tithes in the parisli of Uttoxetcr. COMPANY OF APOTHECARIES. The Earl of RosEBERY presented a petition from the medical. practitioners of Manchester, complaining that though licentiates of the Royal College of Edinburgh, they were prevented by the apothecaries' act from practising as apothecaries, unless by li cense from the apothecaries' company. The noble earl said that he understood this subject had attracted the attention of govern ment, and that it was intended to bring in a bill to remedy the evil complained of. Earl GREV presented a petition from a parish in Ireland for -The amendment of the Irish grand jury laws ; also a petition from a parish in the county of Devon tor regulating the hours of labour in factories. LOCAL JURISDICTIONS BILL. Lord LYNnuuRsT presented petitions from the commissioners of the Court of Requests, and from the merchants, traders, and others, of Kingston-upon-Hull, complaining that by the 10th clause of the local jurisdictions bill, the jurisdiction of the Court of Requests in that town would be destroyed. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the subject to which these very respectable parties referred was deserving the attention of the /Aryan. There were many of these local jurisdictions in the country, with respect to which it would be necessary to make soine regulations. There were 289 of these courts, the authori ty of many of which had fallen quite into desuetude, and some of them into worse than desuetude, for it appeared that their 'system had been bad from their commencement. There were a,rue, however, whose jurisdiction was better arranged, and iClich, therefore, it would be prudent to continue. It was his intention to introduce a clause to this effect in the committee on the local jurisdictions bill. The Earl of RODEN presented a petition from (we believe) Stirling, praying that in the Irish Church Reform Bill a clause might be introduced, securing to what mightbe called the high land districts of Ireland the same advantages as were enjoyed by- highland districts of Scotland, of receiving religious instruc tion in their vernacular tongue. The petitioners seemed to be of opinion that by the Irish Church Reform Bill some improve 'meta was intended with respect to religious instruction in Ire land, but they were mistaken, —nothing of the kind was in tended. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. The Earl of RODEN presented a petition from the master and members of the Orange Lodge of Birmingham called " Prince Ernest's Lodge, 2a3," "C praying that in the Irish Church Reform Bill no clause might be introduced calculated to impair the efficiency of the Protestant establishment in Ireland. Lord AUCKLAND said that the petition could be received only Its that of the individuals by whom it was signed, without any reference to its being from an Orange lodge. The petition was laid on the table.—Adjourned. FRIDAY. CORN LAWS. - . EMIL FITTWILLIAM gave notice, that he would on Tuesday next lay on their lordship's table certain resolutions relative to the corn laws, and that. he would take the debate on them on the Tuesday following. ALGIERS. • The Earl Of ABERDEEN gave notice, that he would on Tues day next move for some information relative to the French ex pedition to Algiers. STAFFORD ELECTION BRIBERY BILL. The Loan ltiiNcil:Lottmoved that this bill be referred to a select committee. This would be more consistent with prece dent, and the orders of their lordship's house, than referring the bill to a secret committee. . . .- -... Lord KENYON said the witnesses would not be so well pro tected before a select as before a secret committee. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the witnesses would re ceive protection beforo a select committee, as no persons would be present but the witnesses and the members of the committee. The Earl of RADNOR said that he would offer no opposition to the motion. _ The committee was then appointed. JURIES (IRELAND) BILL. The order of the day for the third reading of this bill was read. On the question that the bill be now read a third time, The Duke of WELLINGTON, after apologizing to their lord ships for having been the occasion of postponing the bill to the present day, proceeded to observe, that the present was not a time when such a measure as that before their lordships ought to be adopted. He was not disposed to oppose the third read ing of the bill, but he would move an amendment, to make the "filth clause of the bill more clear. 'To that clause there was a proviso, which said, "Provided always, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any returning officer from the exercise of, his discretion in making returns the same as he had been ac customed to do under former laws ;" but those laws were re pealed by the bill itself. Now, he would propose a proviso to effect, " Provided always, that the sheriff or sub-sheriff, or other returning officer, shalt be bound to insert all such names ai are not suspected persons or persons procured." The Loan CHANCELLOR here suggested that the amendment could not be put until after the third reading. The better way would be to discuss - the amendment now, and let it be put after the third readin W ELLINGTON - The Duke of acquiesced. Viscount MELBOURN said, as to the proviso to which the noble duke alluded, he would admit that it was copied from the English bill, and was an oversight in that bill. It was one to which, if the question of the passing of the bill were allowed to stand over till Monday, he would endeavour to apply a remedy vonsistent with the proviso 'moved by the noble duke. The bill was then read a third time, and the question that it do pass was put off to Monday. Several bills were then advanced a stage, after which the house adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24. ADJOURNED DEBATE ON THE CURRENCY. Colonel TOP.RENS said that it would be quite consistent for any hon. member to vote for the amendment of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stating that it was inexpedient to alter the standard of the currency of the country, and yet to vote also for an inquiry into the fact whether an improvement might not be made us the monetary system, so as to relieve the prevalent distress, and to impart increased facilities and resources to the industry and commerce of the country. The propositions con tained in the motion and in the amendment were by no means inconsistent with each other. lie thought an inquiry might be instituted with advantage as to whether or no au improved system of banking and of paper currency might not be hit up en, by which the pressure on industry might be relieved. Ile was strongly opposed to any alteration, however, which would have the effect of depreciating the value of the standard. The ancient metallic standard consisted in coin that could be melted and exported, but that did not apply to the new standard. The difference between the ancient and the modern standard iu this respect made an alteration of 3 per cent. in the value of the currency when the foreign exchanges were against us. By the ancient laws of the country gold and silver were both of them legal tenders, and the payer - had the option of the cheaper metal in which to discharge his debts. from h 57 to - 1664 the value of gold and silver was fixed by proclamation, and both were legal tenders. He approved of the plan of a Government paper currency, say to the extent of £40,060,000, of this the Chancellor of the Exchequer might advantageously apply i.:30,000,0tX), at the rate of #:5,000,000 per annum, to the re .4uction of taxes, the other £10,000,000 would be most advan tageously employed in the giving the Irish poor employment at home, and thereby prevent their lowering the market of -labour in this country. Ile had been misrepresented as having stated that the application of capital would aggravate the dis tress of the working classes iu Ireland. All he meant to say was, that Ireland was now in a state similar to that iu which Vhe county of 6utherlaud was some years ago, in which no agri eultural improvement Could be made but by converting all the smaller tenements into large farms, which would require appli aations of capital as a' means of improving them. But this creation of large farms--4n other words, this condition of the applicatiou of capital to the purposes of agricultural improve mcnt—would obviously throw a vast number of the inhabitants iof the cleared small tenements out of employ,—that is, aggra vate the general distress of the poor. The hon. member con chided with saying that he would vote for the motion of Mr. Attwood and for the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer because he conceived that neither was contradictory of the other. Mr. STEW ART would vote for the motion of the honourable member for Whitehaven,—not that he subscribed to all his views and opinions,—but because its principle was that which Mr. lluskissou and other statesmen had pronounced to be that of a sound currency - system. Mr. SrauTT would vote against the motion of the honourable member for Whitehaven. In the first . place it was founded upon the ex parte statements of persons interested in clam oar ing about distress ; and in the next place, as its purpose was a depreciation of the currency, its only result would be the up turning all the existing relations of trade and the security of property. It should be recollected, that though the currency bill of 1819 might have been ill-timed and inexpedient, yet that at least ninety-nine out of every hundred of existing contracts had been made in the restored currency, so that to depreciate it would be the destruction of public faith and private property. The honourable member concluded by saying, that the subject was so exhausted by preceding speakers, and the views enter tained upon it that were in conformity with his own had been so ably explained and supported, that he would not go over the same ground, but content himself by declaring, that he knew of no greater calamity that could befall this country than making any alteration in the long-established standard of the value of its money.—(C beers.) Mr. Ron INSON would also vote against the lion, member for Whitehaven's motion; not that he was not a warm advocate for inquiring into the causes of the distress of the commercial and manufacturing interests, but that its result, the lowering of our standard, would unhinge all our social relations, and create a panic, the consequence of which would be nationally terrible. (Hear.) The hon. member ought to have carefully worded his motion, so that a depreciation of the currency should not be among its consequences; then his inquiry into our undeniable distress could hardly be resisted. The bill of 1819 might have been a political error : the depreciating of our currency in 1833 would be a far more mischievous one. _ Sir HENRY PARNELL would shortly state the grounds on which he should give his vote on the motion of the hon. mem ber for Whitehaven. He had paid great attention to the speech of the hon. member, to discover ,what his precise plan was, and the result he had come to was to consider it in the same point of view with his noble friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer—namely, as a' plan for lowering the standard of value of the country. The hon. member said he desired a re laxation of the currency, and had denied that he sought for a depreciation of it; but to him there appeared to be no differ ence between his relaxation and a positive depreciation. What he meant by relaxation might be ascertained by referring to what he considered the good effects of it. He had taken the period when the relaxation was the greatest, as that when the prosperity of the country was the greatest—namely, during the war; but then prices were the highest, and at the same time the currency the most depreciated ; so that, in point of fact, it was clear that depreciation was the real object of the hon. member. By referring again to the period which the hon. member considered to be one of the greatest distress, he as signed as the cause of the distress the restored value of the cur rency, and thus again showed that his remedy for all distress was depreciation. In point of fact, what the hon. member de sired was to lower the standard value—it was to require that the sovereign which now passed for 205., should hereafter pass for 255. (Loud cheers.) But when this came to be fully un derstood out of doors, as it no doubt soon would be, the public would see nothing in the plan of the hon. member that would be productive of any other result than great national injury. (Cheers.) It was for these reasons he would give his vote against the motion of the hon. member; but in doing so, he wished to be understood, lie was by no means opposed to in quiry into the state of the country. Mr. LAMBERT said, that the distress which prevailed univer sally throughout the country was undoubtedly connected with the alteration of our monetary system in 1819, and with thepre vious preparations of the Bank to meet that alteration, which had doubled the incumbrances of every landlord. The question might be simplified thus—Suppose a quarter of wheat represent ed £4 • if £2 was taken out of circulation, we might still say that the quarter still represented El, but in fact it represented but £2. The landlords in Ireland, as well as the bankers, had been the subjects of much unjust and unmerited opprobrium.— They were the sufferers by the change in the circumstances of the country, not the causes of it. The right hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel), in his speech of last night, had been unjust to the hon. member for Birmingham in supposing him to attribute evils of prior existence to the alteration of 1819, because the Bank were, long before, making preparations which had a similar effect.— Ile was sorry that the right hon. baronet, whom he did not see in his place, had made observations which, from another person, might seem calculated to provoke a servile war. The hon. hart. had referred to the authority of Edmund Burke; but he (Mr. Lambert) should have been better pleased if the right hon. ba ronet had cited an authority of much greater weight on this sub ject, that of his respectable father (hear), who, from the moment the bill was announced till the last hour of his existence, had denounced it as an act of cruelty and injustice, and one for which there was no necessity whatever. I'he house had been told that an alteration of the standard would drive capital abroad, where there was a just standard ; but he did know where such a standard existed. Then the house had been told that there was no distress in the country. He had been astonished at hearing that statement from the quarters whence it came.— They would find themselves deceived, when the middle classes, were exhausted and reduced to the last penny, and a few capi talists were surrounded by a starving multitude. Ile was dis gusted at the theories of - over-population, and the specifics of emigration. To hear a wealthy philosopher stand up and say to a starving and once-happy population, " Go elsewhere ; here you are superabundant !' ( Hear.) He had supported his Ma. .jesty's ministers onlormer occasions, with some cost to himself; •and with the determination with which he supported them then, did he implore the house to consent to the motion for an inquiry, whether some relief could not be afforded to the country by an 'alteration of its monetary system. (Hear.) Mr. WALTER complimented the ministers on the resolute and decided manner in which the ill-judged proposition of the hon. member for Whiteha.ven had been met by them. Unless it were, wished to see renewed, the bubble schemes and dishonest pro jects of 1825, parliament would not again tamper with the cur rency. There was enough of business before the house without re-embarking in such a sea of troubles. Sir C. BURRELL denied that the relaxation of the currency was the object sought for by those who desired this investigation. The only relaxation of the currency which they desired was such an addition to the paper currency as should be based upon and convertible - into gold. If the plan which had been proposed by the late Sir Robert Peel had been followed, much of the distress which had since taken place in the country would have been avoided. The plan of that right hon. baronet was, that a country hanker should deposit £20,000, for instance, or any.given sum to the proposed extent of his business,—that this sum should be vested in the public funds,—and that while the banker should receive the interest, lie should be allowed to issue notes to the amount of his deposit, the deposit itself being retained as a security to the public for his paper issues. That would have afforded to the country an efficient circulation, and at the same time would have been a perfect security to the holders of the notes. Mr. MonaisoN said, that when he saw what had been the distressing effects of tampering with the currency on former occasions, he thought they ought to pause before they decided upon the experiment of further changes. They all remembered what had been the effect of some of the changes that had been made in our currency, and if they were now to go back to the former system, it would bring about such a panic as that of 1825, and he must be a bold man who could say that a - nation could bear such a change snore than once. Sir J. WROTTESLEY was no advocate for a depreciation of the circulating medium, and in supporting the motion before the house he conceived he was voting merely for inquiry into the distress of the country. That distress appeared to him to be general, notwithstanding the statements made to the con trary by the right hon. Vice-President of the Board of Trade. That distress was strikingly apparent among the manufacturing portion of the community, and might be proved merely by the increase of the poor-rates, which, in Wolverhampton alone, to state a particular instance, had doubled since 1821. The right hon. Vice-President of the Board ofTrade had also, it appeared to him, fallen into some erroneous notions with respect to the value of property in canals. He wanted no depreciation of the circulating medium to take place, but wished the distress which at present afflicted the country to be traced to its source. It might be easy, in a period of peace like the present, to shove off the difficulty; but let a war arise. and they would find the difficulty return upon them with double force, nor would it be so capable of management. Mr. J. SMITH expressed his firm conviction, that if an issue of small notes were vermitted we should soon have another panic like that of 1820, and that if the bank ever suspended its payments again, all the banks of En g land would be reduced to ruin. Was the house aware of the consequences to which such a state of things must directly lead? The manufacturers re ceived all their payments through the medium of the country bankers, and society could not go on if the banks were de stroyed; the result would be one wide scene of devastation, misery, and civil war. He gave the hon. member for White- THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD liven full credit for the best intentions in bringing forward his scheme, but trusted that the house would not forget the sacred duty which it had to perform in preserving the interest, the honour, and the safety of the country. (Hear.) Mr. M. ATTWOOD rose to reply. He had been charged by the noble lord with bringing forward a motion which carried with it a depreciation of the currency; but he absolutely denied the justice of the noble lord's inference as to the tendency of his resolution. It was rather singular, that although so much horror was expressed at meddling with the standard, the house had frequently raised it, till at length it was brought up to 5 or 10 per cent. beyond its rate of value in 1797. Did not these changes affect contracts ? It would have been fairer in the noble lord to have brought forward a resolution declaring the inexpediency of further appreciations of the currency, instead of moving, as he did, that it ought not to be lowered. Yet, though the noble lord brought forward a motion stating it to be inexpedient to lower the standard of value, he appeared willing to admit of silver as a sort of joint standard at 60s.—its actual value being 625. Was not this, pro taw°, a depreciation of the standard ? The noble lord would not go the length of saving to the debtor who owed £lOO " take thy bill and write £9 5, ' but he was willing to say " take thy bill and write £9B 10s." (A laugh.) Lord ALTHORP did not know that taking silver at 60s. would cause a depreciation, but if he found that it would, that with him was a fatal objection to its adoption. Mr. M. ATTWOOD proceeded, and referred to a speech made b 7 Mr. Baring in 1830, in which speech the hon. member for Essex objected to repealing the act of 1826, but approved of the introduction of a joint currency of silver, "as giving the coun try a better chance of maintaining its standard." This showed that the hon. member's mind was not then made up on the per manence of the currency. Was it fair to blame him (Mr. Att wood) should he now wish to introduce silver into the cur rency, when he had such high authority for the proposition? By a ri ereeing to the motion which he had proposed, the house would be tied down to no particular measure; but if they adopted the amendment proposed by the noble lord, they would be pledged to a line of conduct which, if a war should break out in six months, and the probability of such an event was made a pretext for keeping up extravagant establishments, they would immediately be obliged to depart from it. (At this period an hon. member, who had frequently coughed in a very peculiar manner, repeated the noise in so loud a tone as to raise a cry of " Order;" and, from one hon. member, the (for the House of Commons) unusual exclamation of " Turn him out.") The hon. member proceeded to allude to the argument of the right hon. gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, that. the increased consumption of tobacco, tea, sugar, &c., was a proof of the prosperous condition of the people, and said, that without admitting or denying its correctness, he would show that he had most unfairly and incorrectly stated the results by which it was illustrated. The right hon.' gentleman had re ferred to the diminished consumption of tobacco in 1814, as compared with 1832; but he omitted to state that in 1814 the duty had been raised from 2d. to Is. 2d. per pound. (Hear.) Comparing the three years previously to 1814 with the three years preceding 1832, there was less tobacco consumed in the latter than in the former period, although the population had, on the right hon. gentleman's awn showing, increased 24 per cent. He beg ged the house to observe how the case stood with respect to tea. The house would hardly believe that the right hon. gentleman had stated the amount of tea consumed in Great Britain alone, under the date of 1814, whilst for 1832 he had stated the amount consumed in Great Britain and Ireland. (Cheers.) Was it becoming in the ministers of the crown to meet an important question of this nature in such a manner. Taking the case as it really stood, the consumption of tea in the three years pre ceding 1832 exhibited an increase of only 24 per cent. over that of 1801; 1802, and 1803, although the population had increased 50 per cent. He need not explain the cause of the diminished consumption of sugar in 1814; the continent, which had been closed against the importation of sugar for many years, was then opened, and the consequence was an immense exportation of sugar to the continent, and an extraordinary rise of price in this country. In 1814 the price of sugar was Io3s. 4d., and in 1831 it was 48s. After some further observations, the hon. member concluded by declaring the rejection of the motion would be a calamity to the country. The house then divided, when there appeared : For the original motion Against it Majority against Mr. Attwood's motion . 192 Whilst strangers were excluded from the gallery, we under stood Lord Althorp's amendment was put as a substantive mo tion • upon which Mr. Attwood moved an amendment, " That a select committee be appointed, having regard to the subject of that motion, to inquire into the general distress of the indus trious classes, and suggest some effectual measure of relief." On our return to the gallery, Lord ALTHORP was arguing against this amendment being incorporated with his motion. He observed, that the question for the appointment of a committee might be put separately; but he could not discuss a motion for a committee so generally worded, and emanating from this debate. It was of the utmost importance that this amendment should stand as a substantive motion on a question so important as the currency. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took place ' • on our readmission we found Sir F. BunDETT speaking. He was observing, that although distress had been asserted, there was reason to believe, that the distress of the poor had been alleviated, (" No, no,") . —they were well fed and well-clothed. There was distress, indeed, amongst those who employed the working-classes. He should be glad to see this question discussed without any mystery. He agreed with the noble. lord (Althorp) on the subject of the stand ard, but at the same time he was ready to agree to an inquiry. Sir H. PEEL thought that a new proposition, like that now brought forward, should be reserved till another night, and an f earlier period of the night. He should be wasting the time o the house if, after three nights' .debate, he now ventured to dis cuss the motion of the hon. gentleman. An inquiry into the distress of the industrious classes was not very different from an inquiry into the state of the nation, and no authority subordinate to that of the whole house could discharge that function. Mr. O'CONNELL supported the motion of the hon. member for Whitehaven. The time was come to try the sincerity of ministers. They -asked the-reformed Parliament for inquiry into the distresses of the country, and whatever difference of opinion might exist as to the distress of England, there could be none as to the distress of Ireland. Yet his Ma jesty's ministers opposed inquiry till the declaration was made. But it had been made by the vote just passed, yet inquiry was still refused. The hon. member for Whitehaveu had been ill used. Mr. BEAUMONT complained of the eagerness which the hon. and learned member for Dublin displayed to oppose every thing that fell from the lips of his Majesty's ministers. The gallery was then cleared, and the following results took place:— The question for an adjournment was withdrawn. The house then divided on the amendment moved by Mr. Attwood, as an appendage to Lord Althorp's amendment to his motion, when .the .numbers-were— Ayes (for Mr. Attwood's amendment).. 134 Noes Majority against Mr. Attwood's amendment 137 The house then divided again on Lord Althorp's original amendment, " that any alteration in the monetary system of the country which would have the effect of lowering the standard of value would be highly inexpedient and dangerous," when there appeared— For the motion 304 Against it Majority in favour of Lord Althorp's motion 255 The other orders of the day were then. disposed of, and the house adjourned at a quarter past 3 o'clock. THURSDAY. In consequence of the ballot for a select committee to try the merits of the petition complaining of an undue return for the city of Bristol, the gallery was not opened until half-past four o'clock. The petition complainitg of the Carmarthen election, which also stood for consideration this day, was (it was under stood) abandoned. Mr. LENNAR D presented a petitionlrom the towns of Epping and Barlow, calling on the house•to devise some•plan by which the children of the poorer classes may be provided with educa tion suited to their situations in society, and which might not interfere with their religious feelings and opinions. The peti tioners entreated those .who differed with them as to the impor tance of education to examine the gaols and houses of correction, penitentiaries, and even workhouses of the country, and to com pare the extent of education among the inmates with the diffu sion of knowledge throughout the country at large, when it would be found that crime prevailed the most among the most uninstructed. Mr. HUME thought the subject matter of the petition as im portant as any question that could come before Parliament for its consideration. He could not avoid expressing .deep regret that the noble lord who held so high and influential an appoint ment in the cabinet (Lord Brougham) should .have so much disappointed the public with.reference.to the .subject of educa tion: (Hear.) _ Mr: GORING presented two petitions from parishes •in Sus sex for the repeal of the duty on taxed carts, and of the duties on malt, hops, and soap. flo.u:after all rest upon the gera ..r.........---- ---,o:{oi' Pro ented petitions agahttitstco6reliercibcr9fllviiil'bitioutPou the circumstances of any smal Sir. CHRISTMAS p aterf° T ,tee ° but it woutmight not render bribery dltoget the ell ~eated, a.. , d render it much more difficult; m established church residentfWaterford, an d from 0 , 1 of .he w ee i' d ''' touch more dangerous to the . rti Dean and Chapter o clergy there w re mind them that f Pd the i " from c a rf a . ere 1. t. ,„ . , Or Cope . yot per presented a petition - - 11. , i o n ,0 gain, th e , , Pererted by intimidation. Mr. H. DuRE Observance B 1 _arisbe _vf 11,,0t ittes,, - w ere who objected to the ballot, in favour of the Sabbathtd two petitions from 130 1itiorr t he i' Jed, th ess q,, but from pure dislike of secret., Mr. ADAMS presented f tithes and for tne Des....neire„pe,de:,, aid, to mendacity and promise-In: for the extinction o . that on Tuesday to }le f l 'sup et .`" , under the b l lafter il. of the Irish Churc - Lord ALTHORP . gave notice, d a y opti against tor rn i,,,, a ot, having prom t of a select committee .,. e wee h.the hi might break his Promise with iir for the appointmen . ) and on "` as hum /toti ng b mat the poll. Now it move (hear, was very t ._ 0 1 th e ,. Y ballot might thus break . countyth the state of agriculture . of Waterford. hresiteib rm i n th ß e i c ll it f y r° o l f n ry CM • • "Peet. that h his promis manufactures. (Hear, hear.),ro, the rKer-,..bee e would do so? There con trade and manufac presented a petition 1 f . r window *TM . Id* ,rglilitie twit the promise had beengiven c Colonel DAvIES house and the ...... ,of itheref,, onscienti 11 . h eal of the . for tiol3 iisP- --, . uus ee ing. (Hear.) T , cester, for the re . of a motion ‘, -ir - r gave notice marl tl': a voter would be disposed to b Mr. SLANEY and exchange of 5 ,„„ e p had promised contrary to his bill to allow the sale without a specific some extritneous force ' or compui rate and other property, )ry promises alone that the ch for each case. also move for a similar committee to WV' . ( Hear, hear.) Let any mar iiis compulsory promise, and referrin g A in his conscienc m e ed to promise to vote for B: he 're and dishonest vote---to tell o Poll. A promise like this in` way or th e other : the voter n :ther to his country if he execu , :ior if he b ro k e it. Compare tl the voter in this dilemma had t , libe worse than a dishonest i ehood told un d er the most awf in express violation of a soh jell called upon him to speak tl it to obtrude upon his country o •esentatie, and to vitiate the ,islative assembly? What con iiror who delivered a dishonest knowingly deposed an untruth mi. as vile and dishonoured 01 Al l% tartrust-breakers did in poison t h f he 4 ad n Iv: ulttoilvl apire::: hurt t e twhaesh well, od uo t sn h ee a f t 1 b) s r s y • c h ti what 'fling the fountains of legislatio ,g_e gentlemen were very fond 01 the Lier. They talked as if the only only wrong which he could vith one who had extorted from - person to whom trust was . priv9.te covenant to violate it, tett Ins covenant and execute and censure him for entering 1 they would not allow him to t laant an excuse for the still grte trust. (Cheers.) He prized a ~ of a promise, but it was prep° iotm tatl4gfas if it were the sole and sing il • e 'uld pi' 1:L(11111. Now, the very worst ,itb'etorlaortai'sns,TlYproduce, was to enable ti . ►ith e , w ould ii7nusea to be violated with i ni„„ would , I ° l could create any new brei ith PS of v otib c" . could introduce . any additic br' ls s ueri, - g' Voting openly, the depend y . 1 alts kit, r,.and breaks faith with his cot his superior, and keeps fait cO 4-- -ti ta , O f. ° other groudd to 'ask for the hallo at .Rent ar' s i t ",,as the only schoolmaster of a fi bewi the y plos:el.°7• ( Cheers.) In conclusio I th e eart atiPse.a.the Power of breathing int ._, threat.. , &pint, so that they should beco k40.',0 tl. wild temptations of the private se !iseietonitions of those who came to gui t ho ,l olipro,'°3 preference, if they could of ?‘:` they o e , t lertt in the bosoms of the vol It h 11, e k he '' eagerly hasten to do it without id s e i tie t i / t 1 t hat liuman power reached no Iti°t by , th at the ballot would go near to acct Ile 4 b r ed .1 all the moral infirmit: i ti le f ..Zoy e , it. ,?ee of those seductions whi tzilait,ltvt... Its ti co es ei.r.a i :e i h n e 9 e t ri l . . l , l a gs.. all that they co I ag e 4 gethe r e„ .nahilities of our common na :,t,,.4.-11.hd,,ortilinita,edr,,,i‘coa,tketthheemi!, but e ffi ea t the might tiiey m c .. i i i gi lt 4 acy w " I .ters of evil who strove to to 4a at j e , st 041 d riot render a man invulnc i ti : 11 0 eu e th "able him to walk unhurt. (}J iop l icl be V li , c'st il nportant topics to which lc ti ler, 0 whi eh ected to calculate accurately thi ti t h t 'llost I) , c°l!ld possibly be done; if not, t il, ,tinsi. acticable extent. The hon. mei ;li .' '-'ll:ri : t ar e s t - 8 rf" ' etievtehrttYdnian stood exposed, and.to sleeto, oe occurrences which he had Ns ' tt , The ," Nivinced hire ofthe absolute nece. La e t' , I l t f il ll t e h , at .;,ItY said that he felt great pleasu A tile el iiite s and the m ci le ued I qat i „ 'lot, we 'OM givin g an honest vote.. 1 if er 'eto arsons at elections, which had Sone 'tresis,'"a` Present universal disrepute tha: onl Y i a a s rs a °ll p g ro w te e c re tion ag aomn th e 1 ,1 .. ea ,r .. ) l ICC to the civil and religious Jibe ' 4 1441 of b I N k r . ARLINGTON was opposed to the i • eal ,- --it w 'Yil tesai t as unnecessary ;it would a vie tat(' p(lii' and it would lead to bad conseq, p )t ll 'Y w„tical, Change in the habits and ti o '4144 accustomed was in itself an evi: tw a :tich b ell for the certainty of a great prd .ebi h 'oirit • Q 4; arfplthr,"4 adduced in its support, were 4 itc, e has b lo which the originatet P he olli m ted otio ow n tby it t 81)44 —n ts against it. It was an ebi ~ ti la sees of the times particularly as it was el ti,j 4 la evi l ', ! Q w hie it wa's the duty Ofparliamet the I i atri't,t.teagl(thtlee• Then, the hon. member q ; o:0 '411 d bake idtserclacY against.n dtlitZercl' ILI, r acy .., due influence, a . burg 0 • . oere might be some case in ,lit;.,l_,e sway of rotten boroughs and n• 'eat -ii;uentiv no such argument would hi 4 ,;1 }: v ,Fed and reformed rresentative ,tae English due influence according to al co nstitution, but it could on 48 1 rel. t,:;.1111:01,0 1 ?1 ? 3 o • ) -ho: ie w, the ballot would extinguisl • 14era44(alc°°onesetistii-stiteomnalofm franchise v o ti Lodmak e frankness which wasthe .pride l: his life one scene of suspicion, ..,,tlotative system. better or as well a Itiot, , t voting under the Reform Bill? l t nd that woul d , because it was a secret in beal'ranel '• .• • o flii s ~ free voter from all respoi ; thee Pblicity being a ini %-, tweed tare ?pwopuoisdedthteo ball he o h t o a n ti 1 auto - onl • : et . yin the light of day. 1 . . he fi °Zed dark•ne Z w a ly nd m m e rs s te o ry f . e ; w i ? t w p rl a .wg 04• bkir,Prrote right, (were it a private 4, 4tnlight apply ? b publiclyotherwise, -e °Ppression of the rich man ? n,/n• individual hear.) He did noI t atutthilni°per'leveerenitsebrlitbe4a.cownafsusillori tag individual instances be api , :it ''''' the advantages in those inst , .. of Moral d isadvantages. Only thin (Tale,' exercising an honourable public e k ti :n act of which one should he asha ' tbei t w, habit would extend itself to th• .illigt becam e of those above-board ~! *ow,' you manly character ? (Hea I. . 'll -`" have no protection for 1 uoliotelpressor ? He would have a fai the "15,x--the schoolmaster--an enlig 'he hohts.) Neither Mr. Mills, from yr] ,-,,' laeraber (without acknowledge " ri tB , nor any of his followers, had ~i on the , force of .public-opinior th e: -b ad e tt a tie b o:. as s ch in oo n l u o e f n : e p d hi b lo u s t og y hy o ' n ' to bees . forgetful that it.possesse ,ill intluenced by good ones. (I -• e ° Protested against the mann , 1 : 1 1 0 tw r 'I, ondon had•divided the consti (1% te°elasses he landlord and the I the n . Yrants and the slaves, Neither c k e , t er ll efo mioer in designating the new con 1 1 , 8 ' Ile/TPill as living ciphers, and e tli s i , h v 1 4 Pp eal '_; not know what might be the 4 ,1 la,. eo to such members of the hous e 'et e i nc l Populous places and asked , hous e intimidation ' Cries of hear , at • -Use Might imagine ( f the ton ~ 14 - 11 „ , „ • TOM . , 4k, =Le Luited States all parties we th 41 10 t. „ ' h e would read them the sent "ai. ler aselves the nominees of corr e 4 1412 :lo slim them how wide Abe MANUFACTURERS' JOINT ens Mr. SLA NEY rose to move for leave to brim ble manufacturers and mechanics to insure tl temporary want of employment, by giving creating a safe joint fund, vested in the pub' approved and available security. In order to ance and growing number of the class for VI legislate, it was only necessary to state that century, whilst the increase in the g eneral country had been t 5 per cent., the increase ill iug population was 50 per cent. One of the which this important class was exposed col quent fluctuations in the demand for their lal of fluctuations in the demand for manufactui were many : they were both foreign and dome: of employment had been superseded in consc' inventions, as in the case of the hand-loom at present in a most depressed condition, be: tam the competition with the 'power-looms• of canals and rail-roads, in particular 100 threw persons out of employment in one p) time that a new demand for manufacturing created in another. Bad harvests had prodin Those circumstances were sufficient to accie constant prevalence of distress in some part The most important point was to ascertaii for the evil. Iu endeavouring to provide' against the distress occasioned by tempora r y ment, he did not propose to do anything lY which would cost the country a single farthinl sory upon any one,--he merely proposed to gi hundreds of thousands of industrious men to of safe deposit funds which would ensure then tress and want arising in cases of failure of 4- , believed that if wages were equally distribut e " country there would be sufficient to keep all class in comfort. He wanted the members enabled, at periods when wages were high,,.` place a fund which should supply the deh el period. Manufacturers would then have a fuTte-oblri upon in seasons of deficiency of employmen t ' 0 b i:0 1 one which must recommend itself to the h° ll s s ti He proposed that mechanics and manufacturer or g o t lowed to deposit joint funds in savings' ba nii 'layla e ?od, securities to provide against that want of elnP ia yat'd . was continually occurring in one trade or ot her ositor'od, of the kingdom. He wished to prevent the d lher 3 „;,e, a fund from being cheated, and to give the it' e se st e";s facility of recovering their funds as was at Preed that the members of friendly societies. He sugg est be ing", permitted to draw up their own rules, 110thinficoollt except that they shold not be illegal, Parg i . soei e them to enforce their rutes as in cases of frien Y o .sillgj would give them security against trustees, and:„Po.r that their own officers cheating them; also ennet`Z ficer died, his executor be obliged to satisfy : he society in the first instance. He would gice,`• e stilY ts ? ry mode of recovery that was granted by the le o , i l Act. It might . be said that the funds would be il le 3ber_ i s vented to mischievous purposes. He as ked : eh foil expedient to prevent the accumulation of t 5.0 t hg ? they would be misapplied ? Let the house o f OD r , between the evils of combination and want an d it would find that the latter produced mise ry the I° , an equal, if not in a still greater, degree thO ro etil: 00 0 the manufacturers were to apply the fund i011)„,ad111 deuce which had led them to accumulate i t sc . - o", e tO out the evil of continuing to do so, and t he) • o r lc° ter. The hon. member concluded by movingrd in a bill to the effect already stated. Mr. COBBETT thought that it would be iii . uc o hf t b h e e t e t ; s l4 their money, if they had any, in the pocke ts was not likely that they were overburdened -3 sent. If the people were well fed and well clot bad I be able to take care of their own money, if the} care of. A exP res tbe " Mr. HARDY supported the measure, an d e°- that care would be taken that those funds sil ° " - ill ' O l to the purposes of combination. . Mr. UME thought that the word combin c oo s i siVe sense, had been too much applied to a's ° , sbil e th e men for the protection of their own tnteres?.s on too term was used to designate similar association re seli o o the masters. Ile would give his support to the f ig iiejj l but if any part of it went to impose restrictqe sou posal of their funds by the working classes, such -a proposition. free ° t tl l l Mr. HILL supported the measure. His 110n ",,d her for Middlesex was mistaken if he soPr'Coefo,r, sure was accompanied with any restrictiv e ° ci A „ He was of opinion that friendly societies ha L of M the greatest benefit to the countr ha y. tlia P t? Mr. SL ANEY, in reply, said tt this men sur e e i s tiO - any . coercive clause,—it would allow those 5 ° their funds as they liked. pb The motion was then put and carried. the / f r onl os Mr. PHILLPOTTS presented a petition o e ja of Glocester, and it stated, that in conseelleb taken place at the election there last Deceul ear the cent election there, it was their conviction th.r enjoy the free and unshackled exercise of the,' through the introduction of the vote by bali°'' t he The petition was read, and ordered to lie 011 THE VOTE BY BALLOT. Mr. GROTE then brought before the house - to inn the method of taking the votes at electioto Parliament. It was his intention to proP° se c ..e.a 9 secretly instead of openly. Strongly, how' - a ` r gic importance of the change which he was a I t, scarcely have been bold enough to insist tlr e anywise inconsistent or at variance with th 0 is . l late great measure of reform—a measure 'O6O not allude without his humble tribute of a dn f th e tude: but it would be in the recollection o noble lord who introduced the reform b il li ; , opening speech the question of the ballot, 'hll()) object of declaring that he pronounced n u oe roti o. that it must be left for subsequent colls ici : re al dered the reform bill the first approach to that system. The great decree had g;one forth too to be altogether extinguished, and represent'. .0 its place. The idea of a sham representation.t. amidst the disgraces and mischiefs of the P u '', that principle that the house last year r e-org' , tuent body. They gave it a new form , tbc;lscl number, and distributed it into new classes _ He believed that the reform bill gav e them about 1,000,000 of persons. What w ould they' had been a special clause in the bill dividing: t' to two classes, votersjuris nil and voters jar"' voters and servile voters, voters entitled to t s and voters under legal compulsion to espreocei another ? What if the bill had enacted thatf compelled to give his vote at the dictation of .uhea, best customers, under the penalty of 1;5 0, ‘‘ ,s , to exercise his own free-will ? If any of tb!' t s o , been directly prescribed by the reform bill, ',hot, torn in pieces amidst the execrations of the olo ceo ot Tories, whigs, and radicals would have de u bee u,° unanimous voice. There would not hav e thi s vocate from any political party to v indicate ti o of the right of private judgment in any r r hs t (Cheers.) He should be told, no doubt, t ote; ai stand, the law interfered with no man's might, if he pleased, refuse to obey dictation doubt, if he chose to abide the conseelen ce q s :sfell bets of electors who escaped from this o' re nts conscience and their interest by re fusing t° others made a compromise for refusing P' it iicl giving no vote at all. We had here a se tt- meat, resulting from the unguarded c° l-I ,i t hin (Hear.) Examples of this kind must be had of every gentleman who heard him, and be cis, to have laid before the house a few institt.l e , the occurrences at the last election, illustratulf,veY operation of this electoral interference i', o l , reflection, he abandoned this design, no t l e bo n terials, heaven knew, for the materials wer-o,ll' but partly because he did not choose t° cs age vehicle of individual accusation,—partly be a ct O. t•oed litt tilleereforeTt he illtillotiihgiriees:inifill'isll:::l:lawl;fill bi ll 0 : 1 il l o r e etti : i l l le l kl e: t o :i f t s e t "lll l , (rlll : °f ! n te l b , •hieh h t :, p r ate 'during I fY '4l 4 t. th e pOplilati°;:lfif, a Y th e ) i 9 g Otte i n the 0 13 t et i) t , to lar so t rrt c gr eat• o k i c eo onsistedb,e c‘lv'llood le the t holir% acs tl f ,,: s t it tt() 01 11(1 a fat; ' 61 . 4 1 3id o)is ;stie. efill?et4totiatr tot , eq ueloc o ho kes . w eaverkie toj ' l !ltia nt went o uo a. o c. r, r el !_4.t „thel eg t'1041,0;444.84)4 a ; ~aliti ea place , a ooN, treatewriho k I dustrY t e th er ucea e r .,,bf • t hese ills' ;tint! l , l3. o r t b r e op e et e 4 p 4 oi e s ti o t for o ritk a Pstie e eta • we' dfdil dft, eterg key pai 1 11 ` deriv e ] a, b , \c'"` co' 'eaus, lega l - the oth be taki and n g, 0 ero po og kit , th give r. t tn s the y to C° ll ',,t a gt °lel O f by s the em 1: fee 'Pie 1 er a P tlO, co t , rte te a ov--cy,Pilitcoant a the re al' laO v ; et tithe' bot of th at c • iolka cove t 1. th e 11 R th to pa d as Is e Sa n e icienel 0 10 a t , Ise-k c 4c !itv ~ fund t .bi 4c ,*ll. ll ki te,Pi sh eh ill ab er ii;y i rof f il l ,!4,,Ni c t h . b a t ao c it tq ii -otr a r y ••tv , e ,. fr I) , jt , e 'es; Ltittiti! ti-`e.sw: )t. t he 0 ittPyteBe4t evident], '3 tiookr ',11f(11:11111:tged lii s °I T oe lit t. ` 4 l - „ th e Eti ve r it ' Loll' ft) thei 4 1, ''4(l , ,g 131 . 1 e tha t 9 li e brat ° kit] b e a 111 A 10 Ill y )104 4 arl Li ver 'illlP it 4 41 Vie t Ilrg if • 4, i 4 je-bo arti t 00 It ' o Vik i V r ' W 44 tllak le pr ich ild • W• I , , rt e 1 'OP ,e i t'4 ash," c all Ic il ' lairatjh° odfcl 44`elltaet.' t he iii io 4 11 t ern of Ifr, . 11 11 °the the '0 lt,„ l) .kli 11 ° t, ro lt i ti n w it oit eqicit t Alt e t) , , ,i 1 % . , e 11 i d tp , p i t i ioo . e +„,,be44s ; fratler l 1 4 e 3 Ire ipy ;it bii,"Ltdeecl , re oo o oo ),A ti 44 4 rr e d dal ,t, ' a , t , i 3 O 33s o: 4 :: l ici iii7t 4 l : ll, 4 :: t ht 1141 halloti tptlri? o t : je a t e lV o (.1 th i e tfr aid to lall ; 3111 ill''' . 0‘4 1 4 1 . 4. evQ 4 b4ll ot ICY a (le 0114,i' t the O P '0 0' 0 ) re Nil I 'sti °P I a '' .e , /1 3 1 9 , ) 1 1ta .4 in 4 °II- .). l'"‘l3s° lf';4g P t t io 'tl N th au : t ha te. Ja e ,e ille li e h. 4 4 it s 4 t lies' of ct a 'Alt of 'nor a tO l t ttii ex e , a ' c o ol! , jo, • • the e an . a , •es s t ' '' tiqe 44 ' 1 tC 4 rile h et e ver, or 0 01 k ,,t 1 4 %, el l w , al fOO e vef k , k :tt r i bti tit 1 0 1 ' 311 0 0 PP b liS t I l i 4) I to 'es ese e t d 0 bi l 4i r 'tiet, 0 111 (1 , woic 1::44. Net4r, ",,..haia 116., 'Q/ft rheers ' o utic e oo e ill alo al i . le h oe ) iecu fo illi e r '4 t e lltil ent l4 th -iii f tji 0 : i:4t detPhded s' :i 0 ,! 1 ' O l Ij i i ; _, thtolkalle theek of tl°ll' ate 0 0, 4 P al i. , Se at il , ; :40 I , l e f t '`'lld e .. 6 44 - 01 a. ,fhei t , • ;4 " . T ll ty to b e '' a beto,4tr " l he 41t11. 1c ii i '. ter r e t Y tht t f or ,/, r at' the th We r4 4 t), ) ,, 13 1 1,0 a (3 0111 t L tl e I t ') the t elai ~lii cte o f 441. by 04 . h. yra, Liti°° thee r k: 4 (AZ 11 . 4 0 ' 14 be ith i tt olic, , e. t O. iietra. 13 3 a alec!Ave'l t) 4.4 Pe (141 es , - °I (, (4 , 4 Y l ar , ale( ' : th e 0 , q Ner e and lg . el 'OP be 41 1 3 r e t he ,' ll t o l 'o ° 1 1 . : Vt, i ve in il bu t 'hi3 ~' k ,i, 44 4 '!lse to , d c' tr fj , til e 4 4 the/ .aa tP 'q tb_ 4 1 ..4e ~1