The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-09 00:00:00

IMPEI7:I4I, HOUSE OF PEERS. TITURSDAY, MAY 8 The Hotise met abotit ten o'clock. Tmrd BEAU c4Ami, (lax Mr. LyGON) was iutrodiiced in the usual 'fortn, and his patent of creation having been read, took the oaths and his•seat., , Lordships proceeded, as usual, to Westrnin, stet- Hall.-:—They returned soon after four, when an order was made to proceed further on the Trial of Lord' VisColint Alelvilleto-roorrow,_ and a MeSsag . e sent 'to the House - of Commons to acquaint them there With. ; • • The. American and,West Itidia Trade Bill passed through a Committee, • after receiving some verbal amendment. The Report wa'sprdered to be taken into consideration on Monday.: Mr, Graham, Sir Georg Douglas ; Mr. Fydell; Mr. Henderson, Mr. Hutchinson, and several other lgemhers of the House of Cornmons, brought up Cyo . Private Bills, returned with the Amen - dments matie'by the Lords'agreed to, and three'other Private Bills ; . which were read a first time. • On the Motion of Lord ELDON, the Resolutions respeuing the Claims to the Rods Peerage were or dered to be taken into consideration to-morrow, 'on aeconnt of some mistake in the names. Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, MAY 8. A Message from the. Lords announced that they would proceed further on the Trial. of Lord Mel ville to-morrow morning. The SECRETAkY at \VAR brought up a Return of ihe number of Recruits under .the Additional Force A 6 1 ., from limited to unlimited service, .from the year 1804 to the year 18.06.--=-prdered to lie on the Table: Mr. BAKER gave notice, that to-morrow he would move for a Committee to examine the Maltsters' Petitions. IRISH BUDGET. Mr. ALEkANDER * brought up the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means, upon the propesi e tions moved yesterday by Sir John Newport. —The Resolution being read respecting the Duty of 3s. 6d. . per Cent. on Sugar, Mr. ROSE said, that the Right Honourable-Ba ronet had prdposed a temporary Duty in order, to provide fo r the interest of a permanent Loan, which was not only a novel, but, in 'his' opinion, unwise mode of proceeding. •But if he understood the ineati ing of the Hon. Barenetcorrealy, be seemed .to think that it was not necessary to raise "any Taxes for the payment of interest as long as there was any, surplus . Revenue. The Surplus Revenue of Ireland, over and .above the joint contribution,.was only about 700,0001. 'applicable to the psyment el the Whole cf,leer separate charge, and the Right Hon.. Baronet seemed to think that as lOng, as any - of this surplus remained, it was not necessary to impose'any new Tax: If the Right Hon. Baronet did not meanthat, upon what principle was it that he, proposed a tern porary Duty to pay the interest of a permanent Loan ? This Duty upon Sugar in 'lreland was proposed in consequence of a similar Duty being laid on in'this Country, but the Duty in Great Britain would cease with the W e ir, and then the Duty in Trebnd must - Rieht lion. Baronet •was introdue cirri' an - entirely new principle, and. it was 'a snbje& that deserved consideration, because they were now ceeaing rapidly to that period when the Debts of the two CoMitries would bear that proportion to each other that they - must, according to the Aet of rnion, be' nnited. He by no means contended that the whole of the supplies for Ireland should be raised slie year, but certainly Taxes should be im posed' to pay the Interest of the Loan. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that he did last night, in' the rhost .distina manner, protest agaiuSt any such interpretation being put upon what he had said as that bow attempted by the Right Hon. Gen. tletnan. He had never 'stared that he would not propose any Taxes while there remained any surplus Revenue ; but that as there were measures in con templation that, he hoped, would very materially 'improve the Revenue, and as he had been but a very short time in office, and had not an opportu nity of fully considering the state of the Country, lie wished' to propose Taxes that should press as lightly upon the people as possible.—With respect to raising the Supplies within the year, why did not the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. Foster) do it when le was in .office ? That Right Ron. Gentleman had had ample opportunity of inewing the state of the Country before he - came into office, Whereas it was impossible for hi m (Sir John Newport) to obtain the necessary in formation, not being able to visit the Country during the short time he had been in office. It -'-.vas admitted that this Duty ought to be laid 'on in consequence of the Duty imposed in this Country, I)et it was said that it' would not .be productive; he certainly did look to itior produce; but Gentlemen ! ought not to press that as an 'argument against him, - when they admitted that he was bound to propose this Duty, a similar one having been laid on in' this Country. ,He might, he was sure, if he had thought proper, have estimated the other Taxes higher than bad done e but he wished to he within bounds. Bet, surely, it would not be contended that if all the Taxes together producedflie sum' wanted, that each particular must produce the sum at .which it was estimated ; ; and he had not the smallest doubt that Taxes he had proposed would produce more than ',the sum he had estimated them at. The Taxes in. Ireland were simnel, and if . any of them were not productive, Parliainent of cdurse had thepower to rsYpeal, alter, or •amend them, or - to substitute - .other Taxes in .- their room. It lied been said, that .the price of Sugar never could reach the point where this uty would attach;_but be had in his hand the `ptice current of Sugar,,and it would 'be seen that the average was above that 'at which the priee would attach:''' He had heard nothing to induce him tel. Filter his opinion respeaingthiednty, and. heshould tmost cettainly,adhere to it. , - Mr. RO.' s *P7cl sl3 jued• Mr. TOSTAR said, he had been asked why. lie :lad not; hell ;he was in office, attempted to raise ds nigch ottime'4iipplies as possible within the year : the awheyer'svas,' lee lad done it.; he had proposed to the amount tef 1,4 0,0001. a-year. He diet s• bhuale the Blitizet of the Right Hon. Barontlt, ef.lS 2 SO, because he had not been long - enouffi In office to obtain full knowledge of the state of Irj!and ; but there was one observation which he wished to make t \ he Loan for Ireland, made this ..yer iii England, Was two millionS ; 'the annual amount of the Debt of Ireland, due hi England, was two millions :; so that the whole Of the Loan would remain' :here to pay the interest of the Debt. He then adyerted the_rapidincrease of the Debt of :Ireland, and said that in two , years it would hare arrived at that point whew the Debts of the two Couptries were to be United'. Sir JOHN NEWPORT, begged leac'e to state a few faCts. in answer to what ;had fallen from the Right Hon.•Gentlemon respelling his having raised, tnuch of the Supplies within . the year.' In the last year the joint charge of the two Countries was 42 millions,- and in the present year it Was 43 mil lions last year, 'when the Right Hon. Gentleman was Chancellor of the Exchequer, there was four millions British borrowed; this year there'was two millions British, and two millions Irish ? , borrowed. After this shorfoatetheht, he would ask, 'whether he had not done as much towards raising th e Sup plies within the year as the Right Hon. Gentleman?. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had not stated that, when he came into office, there remained 800,0001. •of •the -Loan of the preceding year not drawn for, ,and that he had called for the power of raising' 500,0001. by Treasury Bills ; and the Right, Hon. Baronet. said, that he hoped that he should not have occasion to issue bills to above half that amount. Besides, as he had stated last night, the Ways and Means which he had proposed exceeded the Supply •hy.200,0001. With resped to the,Revenue produc ed by the Taxes laid .on by the Right Hon. Gentle . - man, he wished to state a few fads : he would net; for the purpose of making a comparison, take a year that had been remarkably unproductive, but he would state the Revenue of 'lreland every year since the Union. In 1801, the Revenue was 2,345,0001. in 1802, 3,254,0001. in 1803, which was a remarkably unproductive year, and which the Right Hon. Gen,, tleman had seleeled for the purpose of his compari; son, it was only 2,741,0001. which was 500,0 00 1. less than the preceding year ; and in 1804, with all the Right Hon.. Gentleman's additional Taxes, it was 3,220,0001. ; and last year, 3,322,0001. The year 1802 was a year of Peace. and internal tran -quillity in Ireland; and in that year, the Re -venue was within 70,0001. as' high as it was last Year, after the Right Honourable Gentleman had imposed Taxes to the amount of 1,200,000 L a year. Another reason -which operated on his• mind was, that he had seen the failure of the Right Hon. Gen tleman, who, in some instances,' by very much in creasing the Tax, has aCtually diminished the Re venue. This was the case with , the Ditties upon Wine andTobaCco. Under all these circurnStances, . the House would, he .was sure, consider him as •justified for 'not having followed the advice of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He was ready, however, 40 CIO the Right Hon. Gentleman justice— he cer tainly had proje&ed regulations 'which would have very mtich improved the Revenue; these regulations it was his (Sir John Newport's) -intention to follow Up, and'he had 'no doubt that when the Revenue of Ireland was colleCted in a fair and proper manner,— when theiColleCtion was assimilated, as far as possi ble, to the 'ColleCtion of the hevenue' - of this Coun try, it would be' found Man* More ,produc tive. Until- these' exert'jpos were Made, he did not feel himself justified in calling fornew Tixes, when npt above - twa-thirds of tilo,,e now imposed 'were . colle6ted: Mr. FOSTER explained.., • Mr. LORRY &iid, he trusted the House would indulge him with a • few observationS upon what had thllen frotn the Right Hon - :' Gentleman opposite to him. The tendency of the.obseryations of the Right Hon. Gentleman Was to make the House be lieve that when he came into office he had found the Revenue at 2,700,9001. and that he had added taxes to the amount of .1,200,0601:a year to it. It was true, that in 1803, the year before the Right Hon. Gentleman _came ;into office, the'Revenue of Ireland was only 2,750,0001.: but that was a year in which, from obvious _Causes, the -Revenue had failed very considerably. The year before that the Revenue. was three millions and a quarter, and' within 70,0001. as much as it was last year, with 'all the Right Hon. Gentleman's new taxes. He trust ed the,House would forgive him for taking up their time, but the Right Hon. Gentleman was so much in the habit of making these statements, certainly not intentionally, that he felt himself called upon to state the real fads. With respell to the raising the Supplies as far as -possible within the year, it cer tainly was !desirable 'if it could •:be done ; but the Right Honourable Gentleman, who had not done it himself, had no right to call upon the present Chancellor of the Exchequer to do it he (Mr. Corry) was`'Chancellor of the Ex chequer for Ireland, he had prepared a very strong measure for, raising a'considerable part of the Supply within the year, and, if he had remained in office, he should certainly have submitted it -to Pat Lament and:his opinion and his plan, 'upth that point, re mained upon record in the Office. With respell to this Duty, upon Sugar, he begged to make one ob servation, and itappeared to him' to be of considerable 'importance. -A Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rose) had stated ; that the Chancellor of-the Exchequer for Ireland was bound to - lay on this Duty,' because it had been imposed in Great Britain. , -It was very true that when Ireland was admitted into a share of the Colonial Trade, she,was• bound, by what was called the ", Colony Compa&," to lay on the same DutieS upon colonial articles as Great Britain ; but he contended that the Colony Compael was Merged' in the Union, and that Ireland' now shared with Great . l3ritain in the sovereignty of the West India Islands ; and therefore the Chancellor of the Exche. quer for Ireland had a right to' use his own discretion upon the subjed. Mr: ROSE 'admitted that the Colony Conipaa waa done away. by'the Union, but the Spirit of it still'existed, for it could not , be,Contendeci that'lre land should have'a preference over Great Britain in her own'Colonies. Lord . DE BLAQUIERE cOmplimented Mr. Fos- .j ter for the exertions he had ma d e w h en h e was in ! office, and said he would -have done a great deal more if he had not been thwarted. , Mr. FOSTBR" sziH; he wa3 happy "to find that the Right . Han.-13aion'et weant . to adopt the reguia 7 tions he irad propbseti auct he Was - ure whets they were put in force the Revenue would come up-to the point he had'stated: Sir JOHN .NEWPORT begged to enter his pro test against the Revenue of next year beidg taken,as a criterion,of .kvhati the Revenue of hist year Would have produced if the Right Hon. Gentleman'S Re gulations had been adOptecl; because, •thongh he meant to adopt the Right Hon. Gentleman's Re- - gulations, yet he meant also to propose several of his OWL; which he had no doubt would be highly beneficial. Mr: LEE lead, from a Paper laid before the House, a State of the Revenues of Ireland, to shew that that Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Foster). had not increased•them to theextent he had stated. XLE_Y.ANDER .said, that the Chancellor. of the Exchequer for Ireland had very'great difficulties ,to contend against, and he thought the two Right Hon. Gentlemen wholately held that offi ce (M r . Corryand Mr. Foster) entitled to great credit. for their exertions : the former, he knew,.had prepared a very strong and extensive plan for increasing the Revenue of Ireland. The Hon. MeMber concluded with paying several. compliments to the Right fldn. Ilaronet who at present filled the.office of Chancellor of the Exchequer of Ireland. The Resolution was then agreed to. The Resolutions respe&ing the Distilleries being read, Mr. FOSTER said, he did net mean to oppose this Resolution,but he merely meant to state his reason for continuing the bounty upon the 500 Gal lon Stills; it. was because he conceived that there was a kind of compa6t upon the subject between the Government and the Distiller. Sir J. NEWPORT said, that when 200 gallon stills were allowed to be worked by law, it was right to give - a bounty upon 500 gallon stills, to en .courage the use of large ones ; but when 200 gal lon stills were prohibited, and that 500 gallon stills were the smallest that could be legally used, he did not think they ought to have a bounty. The Resolutions were then agreed to, and Bills ordered to be brought in upon them. Mr. C,ottßY gave notice, that he would on Mori day. move for some Papers relative to the Revenue of Ireland. MILITARY ARRANGEMENTS. The SECRETARY at WAR presented Army Esti mate's for one month from the 24th inst. These Esti mates were of a mere formal nature, to, enable the House to vote a fresh Mutiny Bill for one month from the expiration pf the present on the 24th inst. It was the custom to vote the Mutiny Bill only for the exact period for which- Army Estimates had passed. Some further time was necessary' for the produEtionand consideration of the n e w Milit ary Measures proposed,. and it was- with 'this view he proposed this measure. -He should hope the mea sure td be submitted. to the consideration of the House would' nave . passed within the .time he proposed. Then the Estimates_ for. the remainder of the year, and a:corresponding Mutiny Bill may be brOnght forward.. He trusted,. that' un der these cjrcumstances, .the Present Estimates would ,be voted .without the 'delay of, the accustomed forms. He gave notice :that he should move them in the Committee of Supply to-morrow. Mr. YORKE said, it was certainly mat e ri a l th a t time should allowed for the full consideration of the proposed in, asures of military arrangement, and with this Vie w. he had- no difficulty in acceding to the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman. l'his was, however, the only_instanee of the continuance . of a short Mutiny Bill in time of War, when Go vernment had so long intimated that its plans were complete, given notice of its intention to produce them, and unfolded the general outline. He con-. trasted'the delay , of the. Government he belonged to,' in bringing forward its plans on a former occasion, .which was'so much blamed by the Right Hon. Gen tleman opposite, with that of the Right Hon. Gen tleman .at present', and left the House' to form its own opinion on the comparison. He recom mended to the . Right Hon. Gentleman, and the other Memberi of His Majesty's Government, to use the interval afforded to consider seriously of the proposed innovations of our military system, and particularly of the plan of enlisting for limited ser vice. He recommended also the regulation of the bounty, WhiCh he thought ought not to be defini tively fixed by .A& of Parliament, but regulated by the King's Orders, under the responsibility of his Ministers. Mr. WINDHAM thought the comparison of de lay made by the Right Hon. Gentleman could 'not be fairly made without including the consideration of what was to be done. The delay. now required was not. for Ministers to make up their minds, but for Parliament to examine the measures proposed. The considerations suggested by the Right Hon. Gentleman, with respect to limited service, were certainly important. It was certanny wrong to fix the bounties definitively by A& of Parliament. A discretion ought to' be allowed; saving' the authority ofParliament. It was his wish that every thing he proposed should be subject to the continued amnia' revision of Parliament. Mr. PERCIVAL doubted whether the period. of one month would be sufficient for the consideration 'of the proposed'ineasures. it was above one month Since the plan was disclosed, and-then it was stated to be perted hr all parts. He would not allude to any difference. of opinion. supposed to exist on any part.of it in the Cabinet. The other "Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Fox) stated his coincidence in every part of it, and boasted of a share M theformation of it. But betook the liberty of suggesting, that one month may not be sufficient for the proposed mea sures to pass, and ,recommended a larger scope for the Mutiny Bill it was intended . to introduce. Mr. YORKE asked, ,whether it was intended to introduce the three Bills for which leave had been given,•wmth the Bill for the Repeal of the Additional Force At, and which had not since been heard of; the Bill for suspending the Militia Ballot, the Bill for training en masse, and the Bill for extending the Allowances 01 Chelsea Hospital. Mr. WINDHAM said these Bills were• in prepa-: ration; but he 'Would not mention any particular day for the introdu6tion of them'. ARREARS OF 11 . 1 E PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Lord HENRY PETTY rose to give a general not tice on a very important subjeCt. Gentlemen must be aware that there had been for some days on the Table a most important Report of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry. The faets contained in that Report made it necessary that measures should be taken, without one day's delay, to apply a remedy to'the abuses which - they proved. But as under the consideration of His *Majei.ty's Govern ment, 'and so far advanced as to render it likely that it 'would' produce, before the close. .of the Pre sent Session, one general measure for bringing up the arrears of the Public AccOuntants, it was con ' ceived that the Subjea the Report on the Table applied. to would be most properly. included in that. general measure.. The suggestions contained in that Report would be attended to in framing -the general measure . under consideration. , He assured • the House, in the meantime, that this delay of the Legislative proyision would., nor prevent. the adop- . tion of immediate steps to obtain the re -payment of the large balance that appeared to be due' to the Publicfrom a person who had held an Office of high public trust (General De Lancey),, • late Barrack- Master-General. MARQUIS VVELLESLEY. Mr..Pa.yei moved, .that there be laid before the House a List of the New Taxes imposed on India, during the 'Administration of Marquis Wellesley, and the Revenue§ arising therefrOin. Mr. BANKES observed, that this question n - i ,, st not proceed indefinitely. The Papers already in the hands of the Flduse contained a vast variety: of complex matter, embracing Marquis Wellesley's Administration in India for five years, charging him with illegal and corrupt praaic,es, in extorting front the Native Powers money to be employed in Wars' ruinous to the 'interests of this Country. The ex. perience of a few years since must have convinced the House how incompetent any Tribunal in this Country was to investigate a cause of this 'nature. Still there was an -alternative: By the East „India JudiCatnre Aa, a mode of investigation had been pointed out when the offences amounted to extortion and misdemeanour, such as were imputed to Mar. quis Wellesley, in the Charges preferred against him, extra&s from which he read, to prove the truth of his assertion. This appeared to him to be a cause which called upon the Hon. Gentleman to avoid the inconveniencies of Impeacbment, and following the provisions of the Mt to which he had alluded, to exhibit his Charge in the Court of King's Bench in, the form of Information'. Mr. Secretary FQX concurred in some respe&s with the Hon. Gentleman who hadjust sat down. The Charge-made against Lord Wellesley seemed to • be that of all others to which the Aa he- had men. tioned was peculiarly, applicable. lie defended, .however, the Judicial Power of the House of Cool. mons,considering it of still more consequence tban its LegislativeFUnations. It was . the Corner-Stone of . the Constitution. He trusted that the CoUntry would not imagine there was any intention in the House Of relinquishing this Judicial PoWer. Lord DOUGLAS supported the opinion of his Right Hon. Friend, that it was the duty of the House not to relinquish the :exercise of its Judicial Power. The question, however, alone before the House was for the produelion of the Papers; - to which he, agreed. - - Sir A. WELLESLEY *is hecl for the most speedy decision on the case of his_ Noble Relation. He thought that the Hon. Gentleman might have pro ceeded in the way mentioned byt he Hon. Gentle man oppo6te • but as he had chosen t o p re f er hi s Charge in this House, supported by immense vo lumes of Papers, in his opinion it became necessary for the House to come to a spedfic vote on, thesub je6t. But it would first be necessary to_ inquire, who, ther or not there were any grounds of Charge in the Papers before them. Mr. FRANCIS likewise differed from his Hon. Friend, on the competence of this House to invese tigate cases of this nature. The Court of King's Bench was never constituted to try High Crimes and Misdemeanors, such as those imputed to Marcidis Wellesley; which, in his opinion, if 'substantiated, , demanded a Trial by Impeachment. If Lord Melt ville's.case was one which required Impeachment, Marquis Wellesley's was one which required it much more strongly. Where one was accused of taking thousands, the other was accused of wasting millions. He reprobated, however, the use of the word Judi. cial, in the way in which it had been just applied to this House, which could not judge, but• only: in quire. He joined the Hon. Baronet in hoping, that the Noble Marquis would soon have -an opportunity afforded him of answering to the Charges exhibited against him. Mr. Fox explained. Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON oOmpared the si. . tuation of Lord Melville with that of Lord Welles ley. The former had been impeached in a Reso lution of the House, that he had applied the public money to his own personal purpose, a Charge never preferred against Marquis Wellesley ; their cases therefore' was not parallel. As so much had heen done in the present course of proceeding he thought , it desirable to pursue it. Dr. LA IVREA - GE thoti&ht it was in the power of any individual in, the Hope to propose what ever course he pleased.,He could see. no other objed Hi the observations of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken, than to lower the tone of the House. The Charges against Marquis Wellesley were of an infinitely stronger nature than those against the No ble Lord who was then on his Trial. The Motion was tbea agreed to, as were also se, veral others, fdr illustrative Papers ; after an expla. nation at some lerigth• by Mr: BANKES, and a few observations from Dr. LAWRENCE and Mr. l'AucL, the latter.of .whom declared his' intention of laying the Charges against Marquis Wellesley relative tor:- Vurruckabad 'and Oude, .in the latter end of next week. Mr. DOUGLAS moved for a Paper shewing thg to tal amount of all•the -Grannies, Pensions, . or Pre- sews paid, or payable in India, from 1793 to the latest period.—Ordered. _ _ _ _ Mr. VANSITTART presented the Papers ordered by the .House relative to Messrs. Chalmers and Cuwie:• Ordered to.be printed. ADDITIONAL FORCE ACT REPEAL BILL. The House then resolved itself into a Committee, Sir W. YOUNG in the • Mr. YORKE wished the Right Honourable Se eretary would state the alterations he proposed to in. troduce. Mr. Secretary WINDHAM replied, that it was in. tended,. with regard to penalties, not to enforce those which were due, and to refund those that. bad been Mr. YORKE asked why a Ciauss was introduced to Repeal tbe Amy 914eserve ,