The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-11-29 00:00:00

ov EMnE ll 4 9 1883. - • -,...-.........-......... e l : ti li Mr. Radcliffe. I am perfectl satisfied as far as you are kr • t rile d• It is the unqualified n a ture of the expressio m n e o r. f eh Brown that I complain of, which implicates every T h E a!othwat tim e in the town. R ide T ifi t i n-clerk stated that he had handed the note to Mr. i ng h . Decause these were so many miss t atements respect- Pu rn i Tself, that he wished it to be seen by Mr. Brown that Mr. the e .1 ha d requested the further inquiry. 0 business of the day here concluded, the court being ad- J Mourned until ten o'clock to-morrow, in the course of which the luquiry seems likely to terminate. At t en , TWENTY FIRST DAY. Sli med 4 , 0 Clock this day (ednesday) the commissioners re and welue inquiry, being the twenty-first day of their sittings, ,„,.,_e should say, judging from the disposition of persons to ritu,.K...rspeeches, (which in many instances are irrelevant to the i t y o ' es Y,) and the n° dispositi on o f th e comm i ss i oners t o h ear th e m, iov esti appear p ro b a bl e that t h e prolonged and wearisome of i t gatiou will end this week, or, at least, not before the end the he first person examined this morning was Mr. Forwood, th!:verseer of the poor, who was sent for the previous day by 11 olmnissiones. v a ,,, ra r • Forwood was appointed assistant overseer in 1821. Irish 14.brits Isere passed through him—the clerk of the magistrates eluded in fee for each pass—a family small or large was m in the one pass--the number of Irish paupers for the year parish of October, 1833, 5112, of whom 2975 were from the including)f Liverpool, and 2137 from other parts of the country, w bintion- from. which city until an act of Parliament ol,tittassed last se;sion, paupers were sent down to Liverpool, shit" "neat annoyance of the parish, instead of being at once e .` ) P e ' l holla that city—the number of passes issued for the last .t 4r, was ~.,,, load which he considered a beneath the average—a b i a, s ' i nail portion of those Wm applied received passes, pro ue! 1 ) might apply in a day, of whom very few received . a 1 7 ,,, ol• the eight years, commencing 1824, and ending 1831, 1 )4 7 Pai.lpers were passed from this parish, 653 5 from other a n d ,',. e s In the country, 8723 from the county of Middlesex, „ .176 from other counties, making a grand total of 39,8e9 rerMon. Place .. passed in that time—a material decrease had taken to th e in the number of cellars in the town, which he attributed and T erection of cottages —some cottages were extremely filthy, Tht_ w as no unusual thing to find pigs in them. ti ra _ge I own -clerk said, that it was a singular fact, that at the Mr rthe cholera was in the town, pigs were found in top rooms. er e i' George Forwood in continuation—there was in general aec t opnent fur the industrious poor at 2s. 6d. to 3s. per day— at £ l2ng to the present assessment, there were 15,985 cottages 6,11 . and wader c o m p s 3 dwelling-houses £l3 to 1;2o - inclusive ; ral 7 above £2O, ising 28,805 assessments of houses at the an _l i e of Z 175,756; there were 4,222 assessments of warehouses ‘l_.„o other property to the value of £239,735, besides assessments ,'u_ , blie cotnpanies, such as the railway, water-works, &c., to ' t c : s,l __ tlB, and the Corporation, including assessments upon' the- Z e wu dues bentolls, £47,279, making a grand total of £795,908; ttre had a discrepancy in the rates of assessment, and ti e ! Years ago the vestry de;ermined there should be an equa zati" of valuations; accordingly it was done, and last year's Pentassess was charge d upon the new valuation—the assess had othe present year had been revised, and, after deductions had b e t, • , e eri made to various claimants, amounted to what he t had w ; t e ,,a9' stated. The last year, owing to a heavy debt, together tb e u'orl increase in the county-rate, required a rate of 2s. 6d. in 23. fund—this year beginning in March, 1833, the rate was for titit• including the county-rate, and a rate of Id. in the pound , Li, e servic e of th e c h urc h an d c l ergy ; —th e coun t y - ra t e f or ' 'Ter er P° o ), amount e d from £12,000 to £15,000 per annum. women e are 1800 persons now in the Workhouse including the an d and children. The accounts of the parish are printed Published annuall The principle of assessment was im- Portanty. , not only to Liverpool but to the whole of the kingdom, asethere was no law to govern the principle of valuation, the eava seers of the poor being left entirely to their own discretion n3..t° what.portion of value in rent they shall take. The assess se7nsts vaned in the different towns of the kingdom, the over seers 1.,,,er being left without a o law to guide them. The parish f ao"ndakthefieepldarvvisahsoafsrezds was n o e o - t si o x o th g p rt of the annual value, I si nce assessed at one-tenth earpthr?eteialue and other towns, in the same way, were left to the of overseers. He th ou ht that there should be a law N t s „ ed .h,Y his Majesty's government so as to take the respontsie kinL°" a public officer, which would confer a benefit on t h ) e .‘ - ',Otri at large, as by that means , the poor's-rates would . e quausedhis duties' and the overseer would have a law to protect him in Mr. Poster the ch urc h war d en, h ere i nqu i re d o f th e commis relatirs whether they ha d taken upon their notes any evide nc e h ou e? to th e treatmen t of the paupers in the Liverpool Work thMr• Commissioner Wilkinson replied that they had not, as ;',eY.liad declined taking the evidence as being irrelevant to the . equiry. ii.3llr. Poster thought that something had been said by Dr. Col t„',_ ,eand others on the subject, and he had documents to produce "ri,;.,,h would confute the statements made. . air. Wilkinson replied that they had not taken any of the stateme nts; however they had no objection to receive the docu rne_nts alluded to. Mr. Foster said he would procure them by to-morrow. b ntr• Myers rose to explain away an impression which m igh t _ e imbibed by the court, that he had refused to pay the dock .tues 13„ 11 no a vessel lying in the Prince's Dock, called the John ilo - a " . : He had made inquiries at the o ffi ce, and found that d 'count of the dock dues owing for that vessel had been rcu itered 1, b -Y the Dock Estate; and he did not see, especially in his H",,n,ec, why such an imputation should be cast uponlim.-•- b a old not know what the commissioners had got upon their "ks, but he begged to state that no demand had ever been raade for the dues ~. Mr. Foster, the secretary, explained that what he had said , l' a s . )Myers in answer to an inquiry the commissioners. Mr. _ pwould be aware that no claims could be furnished until the vessel ai,ne to c l ear out, when it would be stopped until the dues were now Lid• appeared, from referrin g t o th e b oo k s ; th a t th e dues ow I ne on that ve s se l amoun t e d t o £3Ol. Mr. ' ers was of opinion, that Sir George Drinkwater i,ght hav e spa r e d himself the unnecessary remark he made yest m erday oh the subject. h s ir Geor e Drink wa t er remar k e d , t h at h e h a d sa id not hi ng e would n ot now repeat. ; 14 „r• Myers here said that he was a memb e r of th e D oc k Com "ee, b ut owed it nothing. He would advert to his former evidence respecting the management of that committee. He pre • h° P vieus ed the commissioners had u pon their books the statement he ly made on the committee of sewers and surveyors. It ti t ipear e d that the commissioueis now had on complaints from w use committees, therefore it might be inferred that they ~orked well on their present principle, and he wished the Dock ruirnittee to be constituted in a similar way. He hoped be- L '' . r! the Commissioners adjourned that they would summon lo•tore them the board of commissioners of sewers, for the pur re of ascertaining how their system of management worked. tioe thought it within scope of the Corporation inquiry, as a por 4t„oef!,he corporate funds flowed into. this trust.. i n o Town -clerk intimated that it would save a great deal of trguvenience in not summoning the Boaid of Sewers. He ad betted that the system did work well, that no board could work o t ter, and that it was composed of nine of the Common Coun tind fifteen householders. t*,;•,r. Myers being satisfied on the above point, "e Town -clerk asked Mr. Myers, as a man who had been exte ns i v 1 a n d i o y engaged in business, as to the amountof the expo .d rt: m cuports, so as to give an idea of the amount Of town dues par 1 ., r • Myers said that he was connected with the house of L..vir.art, `fly ers' ue ler t h • ' and Co. for many years. To the best of his R 2u e exports of the country through Liver pool were i n '"uu,oo, of which £1,000.000 were in woollens, £ 12, 000 ,000 , cotton goods and yarn, £1,000.000 in linens, £1,200,000 in aardware, 1 .:350,000 in earthenware; in silk £15,000; 41:10 other articles £ll,OOO. The imports were £15,000,000, . of in salt trade lc 5 , 0 00,000 were in raw cotton, £5,000,000 in the Irish t l j and £5,000,000 in other articles; upon that amount the _a_ of town dues would be about 20d. per cent. He did not consider the town dues a burden in amount ; but they were, ,7_obtedly, a grievance on certain articles; but did not think °Ty drove away any portion of trade. The amount of the trade Liverp oo l , guess he On commission, according to the best `e ° l-t hi make, was 1-7th of the £35,000,0ft which, from his own knowle dge and observation, h e s h ou ld cons id er an e xtreme am ount. • In answer to a question from the Town -clerk, ersnr,. Myers said that after taking the estimate he bad, he Ca vvever they 'ci not say that the town dues were oppressive in amount, might be upon certain articles. He thought that ~ seventh part of the £35,000,000 was the extreme amount; but 'he gave it merely as a r eseneral opinion. T o ' l • Thornely considered that the inference drawn by the or y o u r elerk, from the amount of town dues paid by a townsman fell eigner, incorrect; because, whoever paid it, it ultimately la °Pon the consumers. When Lord Althorp reduced the tax . Americans cotton id. per tb, he did it not for the benefit of the the ericans but of the consumers. Whilst upon the subject of receive dues, Mr. Thornely said he might allude to having .t„ d, th at day, a letter from a corn merchant of Manches- W e r ',,,, e omplaini ng s.: B Mill/Riled to that, having discharged his cargo at. Runcorn, pay the Liverpool town dues. cle-7tfietkwrsofall examined by the Town-cleik.—Did not consi • it free dues upon the African trade, before he was made th e e be heavy t ha ny formed a very light portion of tered''penses, not more £lO a vo yage ; owing to the _scat -1.4 r _ . state of the warehouses, they were subject to additional Carta antes, and increased cartage was incurred ; the charges threceal'age' orterage, cooperage, and rent, which were about c. tune s the amount of the town and dock dues, were the . T ause s of the difference in port charges between Liverpool and , - "rudon. in 1825, there were 47 acres of dock room, and since ! . .?at period 13 acres had been added, which would be completed in two or three. years, so that he calculated• they would then • h ave three the dock room they had eight years ago, as the 43 • w i th F•ontained more quay room than the 47—that circumstance, wor l.the sheds around the docks, afforded opportunities for , therelni;', which were not afforded before,=generally speaking, - Pool Bt u. " greater despatch in London, but occasionally Liver -0111... irliassed that city ;—in steam-boats liarticularly, he need eh! Mention Sir John''Tobin's boats to Waterford, which dis • te:',,r_ged their carg o the ensuing morning, after sailing hence, ",,Iranother on board, and appeared here the day after. a „t', l • Horsfall cross-examined by Mr. Radcliffe.—The docks IX warehouses in London were the property of companies, d ,,"_l landed the goods and took them into their charge. The f ,`,. d ues in L.ndon include the ether expenses, and conse asr. NI • nil illy the Liverpool dock dues cannot be compared eith them. yelps observed, that the value of shares in the Lond on _ , h7.t.,docks were much depreciated a £lOO share in the L mdon o cit a cnn iPany being only worth £56, so that if the merchants the decline return for thei pital, the rates would be double; b e . of the shares might be accounted for, from there I ,u_g more docks and less business Hors fall Radcliffe said that what had been stated by Mr. Hors doielkshowed the necessity of erecting warehouses around the and t s ,7 e aud when that took place the interests of the Dock Estate ,ro __Corporation would be conflicting. a t '"" • Brown here rose and said that Mr. T. B. Horsfall and r. R ob dude. ertson Gladstone had made some remarks yesterday . ?ffe r %,., 1 ,, 1t s (Mr. Brown's) absence, upon which he wished to thing m e et —e "Planation On retiring from the court yesterday, with Mr. Rob . t n Gladstone, who said he had some- MrlL ° TY which he wished him (Mr. B.) to hear He tald • pessibleds °fie , retur u th w at t h h e e was going o th in a in attend s to a meeting, and should, if g t day, but if not, he should be expeote.miatice the followine day, and he consequently did not i n alle • that t o r . Gladstone have made any observations • obiee,!'„oo hitn in his absence. When Mr. Gladstone had brib• " c t to the w d,. ' ersal " • allusion to the ractice of , Ing the , or univ , , in that that • his i nt oe dock masters, he (Mr. B.) had stated was Gh ost P o re ss i on h ; but as far as regarded the observations of Mr. Gladstonne' -8 collid only say that the houses of Brown and pebli c ~,!' had been before the public for many years, and the . -r, p . l . 3 " . 0t judge of their respective merits. The remarks o f th e , 0,,, rlorsfall did not in any way confute his argument, as flnA le u ti went to show that some merchants had greater in hot know" other s in getting their vessels into port. He did tarty w • w h'it NIL llorsfall meant by " Mr. Brown and the Liver with whom he acts." Did he mean the merchants of h.,, Pool ?or the bl' "°re the pu ic at large ? He was convinced that, iim ilernor' "w regulations, it had been the practice from time 'lay said , ial to fee the clock masters; and Mr. M'Niel had that the „ ti that if Mr. Horsfall; was ignorant of time fact, he wa. - . in the rroPccrson that was. He was sure that every gentleman that he e ( co mmittee, be of what politics he might, would state committeMr. 13.) had faithfully performed his duties on the ab uses. ?and had been instrumental in correcting many state Wha t therockle, who was a great shipowner, would practice had been. Mr. Thomas Brocklebank, shipowner, deposed to its having been a practice to fee the dock masters, previous to 1825, other wise, the shipowners were put to a great deal of trouble. He would further state that, to avoid the difficulties which he had previously encountered, hi had on oue or two occasions feed the dock • masters. He had not done so since 1825, and be lieves that the practice is altogether abolished, for he had never heard of an instance since that period. By Mr. Radcliffe.—The dock dues were lower in London than in Liverpool, and believed there was greater despatch and accommodation in London than LiverpooL He had recently received news of a vessel which had been taken in at the d oc k gates at twelve o'clock at night, and it was expected. to be clear ed in a few days. By Mr. T. Case.—Thinks that the despatch in clearing in London may be owing to the warehouses being attached to the docks, and there was no expense of cartage. Does not knoW that the Custom-house hours of working in London are longer than in Liverpool. In answer to questions put to Mr. Myers by Mr. Radcliffe,_ that gentleman said that the present system of paying do c k ma s t er s was according to the quantity of tonnage they accom modated, but they had a certain salary besides. Mr. Brown was a great promoter of that system of paying the dock masters. Mr. Robertson Gladstone rose to reply to what had fallen from Mr. Brown. Without at all wishing to doubt the cor rectness of Mr. Brown's intentions, he certainly must say, that Mr. Brown had erroneously represented the conversation that took place on his entering the court yesterday. Mr. Brown was then about to retire; but he understood him to say; on his representing to him that he was going to notice what he had mentioned in court on the previous day, that he was then pro ceeding to attend a meeting, but would return in a few mi nutes. Finding, after some delay, that Mr. Brown did not re turn, ho did not consider he was justified in postponing the contradiction of a statement which Mr. Brown had brought forward agaiust the merchants and shipowners generally. Mr. B. appeared to complain of what he (Mr. R. G.) had remarked on the previous day in reply to that statement; but he thought that he (Mr. R. G.) was the party to complain, and not Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown had thought proper to say, that, in the year 1825, it was the universal practice to bribe the dock masters. Ile denied the truth of this allegation. He stood there, therefore, not as the ac cusing, but as the defending, party. He re-stated, that, in conversation, Mr. Brown had said, in explanation of his. charge, that the practice of bribing to which he alluded was generally adopted among the American houses. He certainly was surprised to hear such a statement from Mr. BroWn ; for, whatever his own private opinion might have been, he should scarcely have ventured to make such a charge. He said he could not retract one word of what he had represented as hav ing passed in conversation between Mr. Brown and himself. Mr. Gladstone then begged permission to ask Mr. Brockle bank,—as he had stated that it was the practice with many of the ship-brokers -.to,.bribe the dock masters,—whether he made that avowal of his own personal knowledge or mere matter of assertion ? Mr. Brocklebank said he did not know it of his own personal knowledge. Mr. Robertson Gladstone then asked if Mr. Brocklebank had not, occasionally, five or six vessels in dock for any other person's one, and whether he did not require a despatch incom patible with a fair regard to the interests of others. Mr. Brocklebank said he had only two ships at present in Prince's Dock, but occasionally he had as many as five or six at the same time. Mr. T. B. Horsfall would again repeat the statement which he made yesterday, that Mr. Brown had libelled the merchants of the town iu saying that bribing the dock masters was the universal practice. He would just mention three of the houses to whom he alluded yesterday, and he was sure the gentlemen in court would hear him out in saying, that they were three of the most extensive mercantile houses and shipowners in the town,—he allud e d to Messrs. Taylor, P o tt e r and Co., Messrs. Sandbach, Tinne and Co., and Sir John Tobin, to say nothing of Messrs. Gladstone and other gentlemen who were present to answer for themselves . . He would repeat, that these gentlemen in common with himself considered Air. Brown's statement a libel upon their characters. (Cheers.) It was a remarkable fact, and a fact which he respectfully begged the commissioners would take a note, that the only two individuals who stood con victed in that court (and that, too, by their own confession) of bribing the dock masters were Messrs. Brown and Brockle bank, two members of the Dock Committee, elected by the rate payers, whilst against the merchants w h o were o n the. commit tee, elected by the Common Council froM among their own body, there was not the shade cf a shadow of a charge. Cheers.) Mr. Brown denied this. Mr. T. B. Horsfall replied that if Mr. Brown denied its being his individual act, he admitted it was the act of his house. Mr. Myers wished it to be observed, that the bribery com plained of took place under the former constitution of the Dock Committee. Mr. Thornely said, that foreign vessels required more despatch than English tines, because they were obliged to give bona to take their seamen back with them, consequently their seamen were all on full pay during the time they were in Liverpool, with the addition of fifteen shillings each a- week as board wages, and their captains used to be well aware that nothing could be effected without bribes, and were obliged to give them to get berths. He then adverted to a letter, which he had written some years ago, to the Dock Committee, on the subject of improving the docks and facilitating the despatch of business. He thought that the docks were capable of doing a great deal more work if the committee were to have more effective and more numerous officers, and occasionally visit them personally. He hoped that an application would be made to government to pay the landing-waiters in proportion to the work done which would much facilitate the despatch of business, and. prevent the necessity of seeking for extra docks. Mr. Robertson Gladstone questioned Mr. Thornelv as to his personal knowledge, at any time, of bribing the do'ck masters in the American trade. Mr. Thornely said he believed formerly it was the case, but not so at present: he did not personally know of any instance of bribery. Mr. Leathom said that he had seen the printed bill of a ship broker, who had now a great business in the town, in which were blank spaces for sums given to dock-masters and gate men, which used regularly to be charged to those merchants who consigned to him. Mr. liorsfatl.—During a period of thirty-five years in which he bad been in business, never gave or authorised a single bribe to a dock-master. Mr. Thomas Tobin likewise disclaimed having done so. He had been in business twenty-six years, and had had the whole management of the shipping department, and never knew a six pence to be given to the dock-masters. During the whole of his time, and when his ships could not get a berth, he had gone round the docks and inspected the books to see if any prefer ence was given to other people, and had never found mien to be the case. Mr. Brown said the books were kept in a very irregular man ner prior to the new regulations. Mr. Wallace Currie rose to make a few remarks on the evi dence given by Mr. Shorthouse on the previous day relative to the public schools. It was his opinion that a sweeping censure had been.cast upon the schools alluded to by that gentleman. Mr. Shorthouse had stated that the children in the schools had not their lessons so explained to them as to render them intel ligible. He was one of the committee of the South School, and had examined the pupils in various branches of their education, and had been surprised at the knowledge displayed by their answers. Mr..Barratt, the master of the Corporation School, was strongly recommended from the Blue 'Coat Hospital, and he did not know a snore_ exemplary man, or one more popular amongst the children. The childrenat that school were not only taught writing and arithmetic, but geography and history; and their reading was not confined solely to the Scriptures, but they were furnished with history, voyages, trave:s, and other works calculated to instruct and amuse the youthful mind.— There was an halflearly examination of the scholars, at which the Mayor presided, and prizes were given out to the most deserv ing and the best informed. This system was pursued at both the North and the South Schools, and a better system of educa tion, in his opinion, could not he adopted. He admitted that there were very defective schools for the education of children in other large towns, and he thought that it would be absolutely necessary that an act of Parliament should pass for schools to be established in every parish, at a national cost; and that those persons who had not the means wherewith to educate their child ren should be compelled to send them to the parish schools.— Mr. Currie then alluded to the system of polling at elections, and said he hoped to see the day when the poll would be taken in One day, by which means a great deal of disorder and drunk enness would be prevented. The Town-clerk was also of opinion that great benefit would arise from the poll being taken in one day at elections, which might easily be done in eight hours, by the erection of sufficient booths. Mr. Currie here adverted to the inefficient state of the police in Toxteth-park and Harrington, and ssid, that for want of a good police there was a facility to the commission of crime. He hoped that the time would come when the borough of Liverpool comprehended the present out-boundaries. At present, if the Liverpool officers of police did their duty, they drone all the vile characters from the borough to Toxteth-park and Har riri,c,rton. The places he had alluded to had no select vestry, no commissioners of police, no commissioners for lighting, watch ing, and scavenging, nor court of requests, but the affairs were managed by an illegal body : To remedy all the evils under which the inhabitants now existed, it was in contemplation to have got a public bill, but the proposition was thrown overboard by the present rulers of Toxteth-park. The scheme of a general act of Parliament . for Toxteth-park was projected by theMavor of Liverpool and the magistrates; but from the opposition it had met with from the inhabitants of those adjacent townships, the laudableintentions of the magistrates were not carried into effect Mr. Francis Jordan corroborated the statement of Mr. Currie as to the defective state of the police in the districts he had named, and alluded to the ill effects produced by the oppo sition of the inhabitants to any measure to rectify the evils. Mr. Corrie, the receiver of town dues, here said, that he wished to correct a misstatement made by . Mr. Bolton on a previous day, who had stated that the receiver of town dues had not voted at the last election; he begged to say that he gave his vote to Lord Sandon. The Town-clerk read a document respecting the sale of laud at Wallasey Pool, by which it appeared that the laud sold by Sir John 1 obis to the Corporation, was conveyanced in De cember, 1828. Mr. Joseph Mallaby, solicitor, sworn.—There had been a lot. of land purch as ed inGleveland-street, (Birkenhead,) in Sep tember, 1828, for £505, for a part of which he gave afterwards £1230, which he had sold for £1750; for the remainder he gave f.:1000, ancfstill held it ;—land which was worth a few years ago 4s. per yard, is now selling at 10s. to 12s. per yard; he consi dered the purchase of the Corporation a judicious speculation, and they had given no more than he himself had paid for land in the same neighbourhood;—within the last ten years the neighbourhood had undergone a greater ch ange th a n any other he knew of, in consequence of the advantages of transit it en joyed by means of steam-vessels. Mr. Laird formerly projected a ship-canal through Wallasey Pool to the sea, in which Sir John Tobin took an active part; Messrs. Telford, Nimmo, and other eminent engineers were employed to survey, and the Corporation purchased the land from Sir John Tobin to prevent that plan. The court then adjourned at three o'clock until half-past ten in-the morning. TWENTY-SECOND DAY. Yesterday (Thursday) the commissioners resumed the inves tigation into the affairs of the Corpo ra ti on. Mr. Forwood, the overseer, came forward and said that he had the day before omitted to make a statement relative to the Irish poor. now stated that the expences of conveying Irish pau pers, within the county of Lancaster, and passing them from Liverpool to Ireland, including those brought from other coun ties, would continue to be defrayed by the county of Lancaster until the Ist of January, 1834. Flom and after that time, by the act of 3 and 4of William IV., chap. 40, (procured in August, 1833.) the charges and expences of conveying and passing them would be d e fray e d by the parishes from whence they are remov ed, and be repaid by the respective counties in which those pa rishes were situated. Mr. Joseph King, who had yesterday promised to procure an accurate account of the number of children educated at the va, rious schools in the parliamentary borough of Liverpool, here red a statement to . that effect; from which it appeared that the number of all denominatiOns, at the various charity schools, amounted to 13,194. Dr. Collins handed up a statement of the number of Catholic schools, and was of opinion that several unnecessary expences of the Corporation ought to be apidied to the education of youth. THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD, Mr. Richard Shiel said that the Rev. Mr. Glover, a Catholic minister, was present yesterday for the purpose of giving evi dence on the subject of the management of the Catholic schools, but he had not an opportunity of doing so. Mr. Commissioner Wilkinson here asked the Town-clerk if he wished to give any answer to the evidence adduced in the inquiry ? The Town-clerk stated that he was happy to hear the com missioners put that question, as it was a harbinger of the termi nation of the inquiry. Mr. Foster then rose and stated, that the observations he was about to make would be partly a matter of evidence, and partly of observations. The commissioners were aware of the resolue tion that was passed at a special meeting of the council on the subject of furnishing information upon the present inquiry. It was the wish of the Common Council, and the instructions given by them to him were, that they should be put in the fullest and most entire possession of every matter relating to the Corpora tion, which was the unanimous opinion of the Common Coun cil, without one solitary exception. He considered this to be about the termination of the inquiry; and he congratulated the Common Council upon the resolution they had passed, and the manner in which the inquiry was terminating. Whatever might be the result of the inquiry, the Common Council had acquitted themselves, he was sure, to the satisfaCtion of all. In a time of no ordinary political excitement, the Corporation had stood the test of the investigation before the burgesses, their fellow-townsmen, and in the presence of the King's commis sioners. It was not his duty to complain to the commissioners ; but he was placed in a most peculiar situation, in a court so constituted, with a power so unlimited. He was bold to say, as an Englishman, that it did appear to him part of an Enalish man's Wahl ight, that, where an offence was charged, the bill of indictment should be placed in the hands of the court. But here there was no bill of indictment to which he could plead; and he thought the principle should be adhered to, that no man should be put upon his trial without knowing the nature of the charge, or its end or object. He had not a single word to say in the way of complaint against the commissioners, but he had, On his part, to express his feelings upon the very court eous manner in which they had treated him. The Common Coun c il had left in his hands the conduct of their case, relying only on their own cause ; and he could not in stronger terms regret that the defence, if defence it was called, had not been entrusted into much abler hands than his own. He had had the honour of holding the office which he filled for only a short period, and the only disagreeable part of the inquiry to which he could re f er was in reference to those parts which applied to himself. He would take the liberty of wasting a little of their time in allusion to what he thought had been unkindly applied to himself. He was quite aware, and so would others be, that the chaiacter of the public press, on all sides of politics in Liverpool, had been the means of conveying correct accounts of every thing that had occurred relative to the Corporation; and he _did not think ethat any gentleman could be so igno rant ..of the facts eennected. -with himself and his family as to need them stated there. With regard to the complaints that had been made against himself, lie did not intend to say a Single word ; for he was aware that every man holding a pub lic situation was subject, and bound to submit to, every inves tigation from the public. He called upon any ineivldual to come forward and state whether himself or any branch of his family had ever conducted themselves 'unworthily ; and he was not aware that the commissioners had any such statement upon their notes. There was, however, a statement made ibis morn ing by Dr. Collins, in which he set forth that the salaries re.: nerved by himself and his brothers was £9OOO a-year; which would educate 18,000 children. He lamented that Dr. Collins was not present, or he would have called upon him to have substantiated those allegations. He (Mr. Foster) now stated that they were not only unfounded, but wholly untrue in every point. With regard to himself, it was already upon the notes of the commissioners, that he was appointed to the situation which he now held a year and a half since; and that he was nominated a member of the Common Council about two years before that period ; and he could appeal to all pre sent whether he owed his election to the Common Chuncil, or to any relationship in that body. His lamented predecessor was as likely for life as he was at the time of his (Mr. Foster's) election to the CounciL His youngest brother, John, at the time of his own election, had been eight or nine years the sur veyor of the Corporation, receiving a salary, and other benefits from the nature of his situation. At the time of his (the Town clerk's) election to the Common Council he had no relative or interest in that body whatever, excepting so far as his father having . been fifty years a servant of the Corporation, himself being, during the whole of that period, a tradesman in the town of Liverpool. And he ventured to state, that in the discharge of those duties incumbent upon him in his calling. no man liv ing could say any thin g i n hi s di sparagemen t. His father re tired from the service of the Corporation and the Dock Estate in 1824, and died in 1827. He was, consequently, at a loss to conceive in what way his father's name could have been con nected with his election to the Common Council, or his subse quent appointment to the situation of Town-clerk. The commissioners had already heard that his brother William had, since 1812, been in the service of the Dock Com mittee; and he was at a loss to know in what way his two brothers, who, having been deemed worthy of the service of the Corporation, had been connected in any way with his appointment as Town-clerk. With regard to his last election, which he considered to be the highest compliment he could re ceive as a professional man in the town of Liverpool, he could state that the circumstance which had been imputed as the rea son for his election was the only reason he had heard from any individuals adverse to his appointment. He was not without a competitor for the situation ' • as a gentleman more qualifiedthan himself, of high professional character in the town, had been a candidate, but was not put in nomination. At the time of his, (Mr. Foster's) election the litigation on the town dues had been going forward a year and a half ; and he attributed to the anxiety which his predecessor manifested on that subject,, that complaint from which he never recovered ; and they would hear, at a later period of his observations, that the cause of the trial of the town dues question not coming on before February, 1832, was first on account of the want of special jurymen. On ac count of the precarious state of Mr. Statham's health in the month of March, .1832, he was requested by the Common Council, with the concurrence of Mr. Statham, to prepare himself to conduct that cause in the event of Mr. Statham's not being able to do so. Upon Mr. Statha m ' s d ea th , i n A ugus t followingehe,yeas- himself inclined to believe t hateetbeseireasos-- stances of his having conducted the case previously led to his good fortune in succeeding that gentleman more than any other cause ; and that he did nut owe his election to the office to any connexion or other interest in the Common Council than having acted, to the best of his ability, for fifteen years before as solicitor to the Dock Estate, from which office he conceived his present situation was an undoubted promotion. Having dismissed that part of the business, he need not recal t o th e commissioners' recollection the emoluments he received in his situation. They . were aware that he had no fixed salary beyond one hundred ;.,sunaeas, for recording the minutes of the-Commoli Council ; and the fees he received, whether large or sma ll , were only derived according to the extent of business he trans acted. He begged leave to say that he had not the slightest feeling against any gentleman who, in the course of the 'lives- . Ligation, might have been led to indulge in any personalities against himself; as the situation which he filled naturally exposed him to such remarks. With regard to the salaries of his brothers,—the Surveyor received a salary of one thousand pounds per annum ;—and his brother, the Secretary to the Dock Estate, enjoyed a salary of five hundred pounds per annum. He gave these statements by . way of a denial of the allegations of Dr. Collins, that they received £9OOO per annum from the Corporation. (Cheers.) With regard to the present inquiry, he assumed its functions to he directed to the existing state Of the Common Council; and it might be divided into three separate heads. The first was as ba the formation of the Common Council; the second was the patronage they enjoy e d ; and the third related to the funds of the Corporation, and thei r expenditure. He had endeavoured to recollect all the notes of the items that had been objected to in the expenditur e of the funds; the principal of which appeared to be in building churches, subscribing to the King's College, in London; sub- scriptions towards Mr. Canning's and Mr. Husk;sson's mono_ mentg, the subscription to the races, (objected to by Mr. S an _ dars,) the picture of Mr. Case, which was hung in the room s of the council, and the expense of the chairs iu those rooms, objecthd to by Colonel Williams. There had also been complaints made with regard to the admission of freemen, and to the Walla se y Pool purchase, upon which he should shortly have to say a few words. With regard to St. Luke's church, they had had sufficient explanation from the officers of the Corporatiou. He wo u ld not waste their time with discussions respecting the price of the chairs of the Corporation, (a laugh,) whatever the price m ay .have been ; but he understood that the gallant colonel had overstated their value. 'With regard to the portrait of Mr. Case, the gallant colonel had stated that it cost £BOO. Now, he would state, that Mr. Phillips, an artist of great eminence, f or his time and charge during the period of his stay in Liverpool —the portrait being taken here, in consequence of the extrem e age of the gentleman—had received a suns which, including .the splendid frame which the commissioners might have seen, a sum of £3OO, and not £B9O. (Cheers.) The only . explanation, that could be given for that curse which, in the opinion of Mr. San ders, hid been inflicted, was, that, at the commencement of the Aintree races, the Common Council had given a sum o f money towards a plate to be run for; but it 'had never b een repeated since, and, for his own part, he hoped it never would. He trusted the gentlemen he had the honour to address, wh en , in fulfilling the duties of their commission they made a report upon this inquiry, would be careful in alluding to the subject of the races ;_for his Majesty was in the habit of giving plates to be run for at all the races in the kingdom (a laugh). With regard to the next item (Mr. Canidug's monument), as he de precated all remarks upon political subjects,—it, being no part of the question to go into the politics of every one—he would . content himself with remarking that in the estimation of all' parties, Mr. Canning had been a faithful representative of the town (loud cheers), and during that gentleman's stay in Liver pool, at the house of Mr. Gladstone, a deputation of gentlemen of every political sentiment waited on him, on his relin quishing the representation of the town, to thank him for the services rendered to the borough, which he (the Towns clerk), deemed a sufficient apology for the Corporation subscribing £5OO towardi his monument. With regard to the other monument to the memory of the late Mr. Iluskisson, he presumed that it was generally known that that gentleman had the misfortune to lose his life, almost, it might be said, in the service of the town ; as it was on the, oc casion of his coming down to the opening of that magnificent' and unrivalled specimen of mechanical (genius, architectural skill, and the spirit and enterprise of the inhabitants of Liver pool, the railway from hence to Manchester. It was also con sidered that the service rendered by Mr. Huskisson to the town was scarcely second to those of Mr. Canning, and he had also the satisfaction of receiving the thanks of all political parties in the town, which he (Mr. Foster) thought a sufficient apology for subscribing towards Mr. Huskisson's monument; the sums so given by the Corporation being, in each of those cases, por tions of general subscriptions of between three and four thou sand pounds. With regard to the subscription to the King's College, he hoped that the remarks he might make would not be taken as intending to convey any opinion upon what was called the rival University. He was not a member of the Cone s mon Council when that subscription was made; but it was a 'matter of notoriety that that college was supported by the most eminent prelates, and other distinguished divines and friends of the Established Church; and he (the Town-clerk) was un willing to believe that it would be imputed to the Corporation as a fault that they had contributed their funds in support of the established religion of the country. He was not going to make another remark applicable to the politics of the two universis ties. The Corporation had subscribed only to one, in :copse quence of its connection with the established church of Eng land. (Cheers.) Another item in the expenditure objected to was on the building of churches. The commissioners would be aware that no money had been expended in that way, except tinder the aethority of an act passed by the legislature of the country. Referriug to the government of the borough, the charter of King Charles, which framed the constitution of the corporate body of Liverpool, was included in the charter of William the 'Third. These charters declared that the town of Liverpool should be a free borough, governed under the title of the Mayor, Bailiffs, and Burgesses of the town of Liverpool; and expressed that it should be sufficient in law to render them capable of receiving dues and making hy-laws;—and that all the privileges and immunities should become the property of themselves and their successors in fee and for power to the Corporation to purchase property. The charter of William the Third confirmed the before-mentioned charter of Charles;—and enjoined, that the Mayor, Baiiiffs, and Burgesses should hold their privileges without hindeence : the same to descend to their heirs in succession;—and that the said burgesses should not hereafter be aggrieved or other wise disturbed by any officer or minister in any of their fran chises or judicature. It further stated that those letters patent should be law. There was no mention made in any of the charters of gifts or grants made to the Mayor and Burgesses, and it appeaaed that the King had given the Corporation no thing, and they had a right to hold what property they had pur chased by the power conceded to them by the charter. It had been given in : evidence before the commissioners, what the nature of the Corporation property was ; and no evi dence had, or could be brought forward before them, that the Common Council had procured any portion of their present property by gift from any individual, or from the King himself. (Cheers.) Neither could it be shown that auy trust had been violated, or property applied, contrary to the intentions of the donor. Whatever property the Corporation had acquired, they had acquired it the same as a private indi vidual, which ought to be protected by virtue of their charters, as the law of England protected the property of private indivi duals; and the estates of the Corporation in the town of Liver pool were as much their property as were the estates.of the com missioners their own property ; and uo evidence had been brought forward to show that such was contrary to the fact. The consti tution of the Common Council, as granted by the charter of King William, was enjoined to the future electors to be the same as before the charter of Charles the Second. The Commis sioners had asked the other day for copies of extracts, and he now produced those extracts, which showed that, before the char ter of Charles the Second, it was the custom to elect the Common Council in the same manner as after the charter of William the Third. In the decisions in the courts of law on therecords of the Corporation, there were two trials in the King's Bench, and they established that it was the cust om o f so electing them before the charter of Charles H. These two decisions had proved that it was not the custom to elect the Common Councilmen in the Common Hall, and stated in what way they were to be elected. The present members of the Common Council held their offices by the same mode that the Common Council had always been elected in the borough, which proved that there had been no usurpation, and he did insist that the present members of the Conuuon Council did not owe their election to any . usurpation whatever, but were elected in the saute manner.as it appeared by the books of the Corporation, had been the practice for years past, and uo evidence had been brought forward to the con trary. It appeared that in the charters the Common Council were called by different names, sometimes they appeared as Common Halls, and at other times as congregations and assemblages, from which it seemed that, in former days, the transactions of the Cominon Cwincil were not con ducted with all that minuteness of detail as at the present time, and they (the commissioners) could not, 'after what they heard in evidence, he was sure, in their report to the King, state that there was any usurpation with regard to the mode of elec tion at the present time. (Cheers.) Mr. Bolton had coin plained that no Dissenters were members of the Common Council, and he admitted that there were no persons in the Comuion Council who dissented from the doctrines of the Esta blished Church. ( Hear.) Mr. Bolton had also stated cor rectly.that the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts took place in 1828, before which no Dissenters could be admitted into the corporate bodies, in consequence of their being unable con scientiously to comty with. the oaths requisite, prior to their becoming members of the Corporation. Mr. Bolton had said, that after the repeal of those acts no Dissenters, were admitted into the Common Council, and alluded to the eleetion of Mr. Horsfall as being the first to be elected after the passing of that act. The second person elected was himself, and he could, Consequently, answer for all elections since that period. — He could state that no Dissenter had been put in nomi nation in the Common Council. He could not, therefore, conceive upon what Mr. Bolton founded his opinion, that any person had been refused because he was a Dissenter. Mr. Bol ton had further stated that nothing had been given to the Di.s sewers by the Corporation iu the exercise of their patronage; but he had subsequeetly corrected himself, having found that there were instances of gifts by the Corporation to both Dis senting schools and chapels. With regard to the ecclesiastical patronage of the Corporation, he admitted that they had erected churches and not chapels; but he could not conceive that the Common Council could be accused of a remissness of their duty because they had given what they had to give to the es tablished religifai ; and it could not be imputed to the COr•pora lion that they ha . 1 done wrong by giving the preference to the Church of Engla id. The mode in which the patronage was dispensed would be laid before them; and he lamented that exaggerated statements respecting that patronage had been 'Mue, which this inquiry would tend to remove. No evidence lad been brought before them of any unworthy object having been appointed to the churches under the patronage of the Corporation. The only thing that had been urged related to the Rev. Mr. Johnson, who, by refeiriug to the evidence of the Rev. Mr. Brooks, the rector, would be found a worthy pastor of his flock, and a most excellent parish curate. Ha (the Town-clerk)' had previously stated, that he thought_Mr. John son had no competitor for his situation ; but he had since found that Mr. Fisher and Mr. Johnson were the only candidates, although Mr., Goddard was mentioned; but there was no for mal application to the Common Council by Mr. Goddard, who did not come forward as an open candidate as had been stated. If Mr. Johnson's appointment, therefore, was to be brought for ward as a charge against the Corporation, he would refer to the other side of the question, when the Rev. Mr. Prince was ap pointed by the Common Council to the evening lectureship of St. Paul's, on the recommendation of the congregation; and the same conduct had been pursued by the Common Council in the appointment of Mr. Cardwell to his church. With regard to the offices of the Corporation, the treasurer, he admitted, was one of their body, as was also the receiver of town dues; and the treasurer had invariably been a member of the Common Council, although the receiver of the town dues was not always so. They wou'd find, by reference to evidence given, that those gentlemen found sufficient securities tit the faithful discharge of the duties of their offices; and lie would ask what there was so peculiar in the character of a Common Councilman, that would render hint incapable of doin ,g the duties of such offices? The com missioners would find that those gentlemen were compelled to account in as strict a manner, and with as much punctuality, as any merchant would be anxious to do on his own account; and he thought he might say almost more so. The commis sioners would not find upon their notes that there was any evidence whatever, that money, the property of the Mayor and messes, had. been aquandered away for .election ,purposes. Neither did they find the Corporations,-as a body, interfering in the election of any candidate, although the individual members of the Corporation exercised their privilege of voting as they thought proper. On the contrary, the candidates and their friends, at the termination of an election contest, whether success ful or otherwise, were always invited by the Mayor to the enter tainments at the Town-ball ; and he ( the Toa n-clerk) recollected sitting next to his friend (if he might call him so) Mr. Bolton ; and their motto appeared to be—to, make use of the observations of a celebrated squib-writer of former times—to forget all the folly, and laugh at the fun. (Laughter.) Aud they haul no evidence on record, or ,witness brought, to prove that the Cor poration had taken any part in the election contests, excepting individually, in having . espoused the cause of their favourite candidate, as was the right of au Englishman. Ile would not descant upon the political principles of the Common Council, as he should despair of doing it with that accuracy and justice which the gentlemen on the opposite side of the table hind la boured to do. ( Laughter.) He thought, however, that, in these times, it was exceedingly difficult to discover, the political opinions of any one ; and yesterday they had a proof of 4. They found Dr. Collins and Mr. Jordan at variance, although previously supposed to entertain similar political opinions. Ile would say that there were gentlemen on the Common Council who embraced different opinions, and had taken all sides in the party politics of the town. Another charge.against the Com mon Council was the relationship with each other. It reminded him of a book that was put into his hands in his earlier days, — which the commissioners were doubtless well acquainted with,, but which, from their long experience, they now, perhaps, had seldom occasion to consult-- called BlaCkstone's Commen taries. In that book be found a table of consanguinity of large dimensions, and most accurately drawn up; but he thought they (the commissioners) had upon their notes a far more extensive table of consanguinity, derived from the gen tlemen opposite, than Blackstone ever contemplated. He did not know how those gentlemen had exercised their ingenuity in tracing the genealogy of the Common Council, or whether they 1 , ,d traced them down to an ancestor well known to them all as Dicky Sam; but they had carried the consanguinity of cousins and cousins-in-law to a greater extent than had ever been con templated either by Blackstone or any other writer.—( Laugh ter.) To be serious, however, he thought that a certain por tion of the town, by this table of genealogy, were very much n eglected, and had just grounds of complaint against the gen tlemen opposite,—he meant the ladies of the borough,— (laughter,)—as they must, hereafter, never marry a man who had a cousin or a cousin-in-law in the Common Council ; and although Mr. Bolton had no father nor grandfather, he had sons, grandsons, and grand-daughters in. the borough, who, he 'supposed, would be interdicted from connecting themselves with the cousin, or the cousin-in-law, of any member of the Common Council. (Laughter.) He (the Town-clefts) was before stating that there' were various parties in politics in the Common Council, and they had had no evi dence before them of any corruption by the council as a body, nor of any act done by them, as applying to themselves, as it had been stated that the Corporation had bought from and sold to themselves at improper prices. The commissione rs had very properly called fOr a statement of the prices for which this property was, bought and sold; and they had uo proof whatever of corrupt practices in any one of the transac tions. Out of 2169 leases granted within the last twenty- two years, there were only sixty under building leases to members of the Common Council; and the only purchased leases in twenty-two year's by the Common- Council were eight; so that, out of the forty . members of the'Common Council, that number only were interested; and during the same period the only purchases of freehold property from mem bers of the Common Council were eight. '1 hese facts were correctly taken from the books of the• Corporation ; which showed 'that there was no foundation for any eofnplaints against members of the CommOn Council. He held in his hand the total amount of the sale of land and premises made by the Cor poration in 23 years; which amounted to the sum of £668,503 16s. 9d.—and the total amount of that sum sold to members of the Common Council appeared to be £22,032 15s. 3d. In 1828, the estate in Cheshire was purchased from Sir John Tobin - and Mr. Laird, which had already been stated to be purchased for £B-1,000. He had the detailed particulars of all the purchases made by individuals from the Corporation, giving the names of the parties; but he thought he was not called upon to expose the private affairs of the persons who had bought trona the Cor poration. He should, therefore, refrain from naming the par ties, and entering into the details, unless the commissioners thought it necessary. The Commissioners here said they should leave it to the Town-clerk's discretion; and the latter consequently said he should decline entering into those particulars. With regard to the Wallasey- Pool sale, it was meant to be Melted that Sir John 'robin had been favoured by the Corpo ration. He would, however, leave them to judge whether - such was the case,. when he stated that a member of the Common Council had purchased a portion of that land from the Corpo ration. at fifteen shillings per s quare yard, and a part at ten shillings per square yard. On the first of July, a plot of laud in tho Waterloo-road was sold to a gentleman who paid nine teen shillings per square yard for it. Another lot had been sold on the Bth of July for twenty-one shillings per square yard ; and two lots, in the same place, were Sold at the. same time to Sir John Tobin, a member of the Common Council, at twenty-five shillings per square yard, which plainly showed • that there was no favour to any member of the Common Coun cil, neither had there been any evidence to prove that there was; but he advanced this to prove the direct contrary. With regard to the complaint against the freemen, which had been alluded to in a petition put in, and in the evidence given by Mr. Peter Woods, the particulars of which were now before the House of Commons, he would not say more than this—that, as it was under investigation by that house, he had no doubt that the legislature would deal with the subjeet with justice, and as it de served. He was not aware that, with regard to the Corporation, he had much more to state in denial of the allegations which had been made. There had been no evidence to prove the allega tion of Mr. Bolton, that there was a profuse expenditure of the funds cf the Corporation, or that the Common Council was con , stituted for one party in politics, and one sect in religion. He thanked Mr. Bolton for the admissions he had made regarding the efficiency of the public officers ; from which the commis sioners might see that the charges made against them by others, in their statements, were not true. He also felt obliged to Mr. liathbune and Mr. Thornely for the admissions they had made of the efficiency and impartiality with which the Mayofct and other municip a l o ffi cers h a d performed their duties at elections; and he hoped that when the commissioners reported , to the King the result of their inquiry, they would state that the ma gistrates, as given on all aides, had lent their time and their ability without any partial influence, emolument, fee, or re ward ; and he g ave M r . Thornely credit for the good feeling which prompted him to that statement. Mr. Thornely here rose and said that the Town-clerk was mistaken on one point, for he believed the influence of the Magistrates and the Corporation was verygreat ; and he would instance that, when canvassing for votes at the late election, if he happened to go to the house of a freeman, and he was told that he was in the service of the Corporation, it was sufficient for him to depart without snaking any solicitation, which evinced the influence possessed by the Corporation. The Town-clerk said that he only meant to say that Mr. Thornely had given the Mayor and magistrates credit for the very efficient manner in which they always conducted their business. Mr. Thornely said that he should be always happy to afford that statement to the merits of the Mayor and magietrates. The Town-clerk continued : he thought that, with regard to the affairs of the Corporation, he had touched uponfileady every point with the exception of the question of the town dues, which were then in liti ga ti on; and on whi c h h e was compelled to offer a few remarks Here-, however, he would take leave to observe that, when first the attention of Parliament was direct ed to inquiring into Municipal Corporations, the conimittee of the House of Commons, having finished their labours, and the commission under which they, the commissioners, sat, was about to be issued, he had observed in the parliamentary reports in the publi c papers of the day, that a few questions were put to the Lord Chancellor by a noble lord, relative to the powers in vested in the commission, as to whether the instructions of the commissioners were to be, to enter into an investigation of the titles of Corporations; or whether the inquiry was e to be con fined to the mode of government, and other local Matters con nected with Corporations. These questions were put by a noble lord to the Chancellor, Lord Brougham, and the Chan cellor's opihion was, that it was to the second of those queries that the commissione rs had to apply th e i r l a b ours . The ques tions were put by Lord Wharncliffe, a report of which ap peared in the columns of the Morning Post; from which it appeared that much injury might be sustained by Corpo rations entering into cases which might be- in state of litigation. He believed the report to .be a correct one; but he, did not depend upon the veracity of the newspiner report alone, as a gentleman of his acquaintance was present and Heard the questions put, to whom he-read over the report in the paper, and who stated it to be correct. [The - ToWn-clerk here read the report alluded to, front which it appeared that the Lord Chancellor, in an s wer t o the queries of Lord Wharncliffe, Said that the noble baron, to ascertain correctly the powers vested in the commissioners, s ehould move for a copy of the commission, and at the same time stated, that corporate bodies, in cases of inquiry; should take - legal advice befbre they au swered the questions put to them under the commission. Upon the foundation ofthese observations of the Lor:1 Chancellor it was that the Common Council acted when they came to the resolution of refusing to tender any evidence on the subject of the town dues now its litigation.] He (the Town-clerk) now begged leave to state, as a matter of evidence, that, by saying nothing, at the time that Mr. Lowe made his long statements on the subject of the town-dues, he (the Town-clerk) did not by any means, in not answering, admit the truth of those statements. He now thought, however, that it was due to the Cenunon Council to enter into that question, in order to remove erroneous impres sions, which might have been imbibed by a Part of the town on the subject of the dues. In doing so -he was aware that he proceeded on difficult grounds; and in the statement he wished to make e he should say nothing of the title of the Corporation to those dues. He adverted to what Mr: Lowe had said, "That had he" (the. Town-clerk) "been present at the time he made the statements, he would haVe been aware that the question was not to try the right of the town dues, but first to ascertain whe ther there was a right." . When he had seen the statement in the paper, he could scarcely believe that Mr. Lowe had made it; for he must confess that he could not see the difference between the trial of the right to the town dues, and the-trial to ascertain whether there was a right. Mr. Bolton had then stated that if all had paid alike he should not have disturbed the question of right; and Mr. Low had added that, under those circumstances, he would not have been seen as the solicitor in the action. - From the extracts with which he was furnished from the paper, it appeared that Hr. Lowe had also stated diet the dues were only an usurpatioi on the pert of the Corporation, and that the title to them at the trial was invented by the late Town-clerk. Mr. Lowe's clerk here said that Mr. Lowe was in London ; and suggested to the Town-clerk the propriety of refraining from any observations upon Mr. Lowe in his absence. The Town-clerk said he should snake no personal remarks on Mr. Lowe, but confine himself to his evidence, whicl was admitted by Mr. Lowe's clerk to have been correctly givea. The Town-clerk continued: the insinuation on the part of Mr. Lowe, against Mr. Statham, the late Town-clerk, was un true, which he hoped he should be able to show by his testimony. The first intimation of the resistance to the payment of the town dues was in a letter firms Mr. Hornby; -stating to the Mayor that the merchants had come to a resolution of trying the right of the Corporation to the town dues ; and he hop e ed the question might be set a t res t by a j u di c i a l d ec i s i on .—[Ti e Town-clerk here read a resolution, adopted at 6 meeting of the merchants, sent by Mr. Hornby, to the effect that the meeting were of opi nion that the town dues were an illegal exaction, and that no time should be lost in bringing the right to them to a decision by a court of law.]—This showed that it was a trial of the legality of the claims of the Corporation to the dues. The Common Council, on receiving this information, ordered the correspond ence to be entered upon the Corporation books; and an intima tion was given to the merchants that the payment of thos6 dues would be enforced. In regard to another allegation of Mr. Lowe, that the stun of £12,000 had been appropriated for the expenses attending the litigation on the subject of the town dues, he was quite sure that sum would not be sufficient to maintain the right of the Corporation to those dues. The next course of proceeding was, that a writ was sued out of the Court of King's Bench by Mr. Bolton, which he admitted was, so far, done fairly and honourably on the part of the merchants; but what will the merchants and people say of that whith had led to the presefit unwarrantable great expense . ? etpreouid scarcely believe his own eyes when he saw it in the payer that it was not to try the legality of the town dues, when the mere-trains stated that the Corporation had no right to them! He weuld now refer to the course subsequently taken by the merchants, who, if al lowed to use the expression, bad, bs means of the screw of the Court of Chancery, filed a bill to . compel the Corporation to state their title to those dues. (cheers) He had expressed himself with a degree of warmth which the subject might excuse; and he would now state the words of a most popular min (he meant the Solicitor-general), when the answer was made by the Com mon Council to the first appeal to the Vice-Chancellor. Sir John Campbell then said that it could not be the law of England that a man was compelled to come into a court to show his title to his property. This was at the time when .Belgium was in a state of disaffection; and Sir John Campbell. remarked, " if such be the law, the Belgians hove not much to complain of." (Loud cheers.) This proceeding in Chancery called upon the solicitors to the Corporation to produce every private doeument and confidential letter which had passed between the attornies and their clients from the very moment the action was brought. Appeals were made to the Lord Chan cellor, which caused the delay, and Was one feason why the question was not vet settled. Mr. Bolton and his solicitor were limited by the Lord Chancellor to the inspection of certain documents; and the expense of their Chancery pro ceedings would be added to the expenses of the Corpora tion. The truth was, that the burgesses of Liverpool were paying for those proceedings of Mr. Bolton. lle (the ,Cown-clerk) wished to make no other remark than this with respect to his predecessor, which was, that there was no man living who was more cons c ientious and than he was; and it was due to his memory to say, that such a man was not likely to commit the wilful perjury which had been attributed to him. The late Town-clerk had stated in evidence, that he was ignorant of the title to the town dues before. the year 1830; and it was his (Mr.F.'s) firm belief that he was so, as he himself was also ignorant of the title to that period ; and he was con vinced that it was to the deep research and, exertions of Mr. Charles Okill, that the discovery was made of the clearest maul , festation of a title, which must be admitted in any courtof justice. As Mi. Lowe had quoted the opinion of Mr. - Sergeant Wilde, who stated that the Corporation had no title to the town dues ' he would quote the opinion of a counsel equally eminent with Mr. ' Sergeant Wilde; he meant Sir James Scarieet, who had stated distinctly as his opinion that the Corporation had made out as strong a claim to the right of the dues as ever came before a court of j ustice ; and if carried to trial, they would be sure to obtain a verdict. And it proved by the result of the trial in the Court of King's Bench, that Sir James Scaelett's opinion was better grounded than that of Mr. Sergeant Wilde. :Up . to this period nothing had yet occurred to alter the opinion given by Sir James Scarlett, and he (the Town Clerk) tendered that fact as a matter of evidence; and that there was no trial had taken place on the abstract title of the Corporation to those dues until February last. That cause originally came on for trial in 1832, before Lord Tenderden. A special jury was summoned, but only six attended; and Mr. Holton had then the power to have prayed a tales for the trial to go on, but acting, as he presumed, under the advice of his counsel,: he declined doing so. The Corporation did not pray a tales,. although they had the power, as it would have been stated on: the other side that they were not a jury of merchants, and the judicious conduct of their counsel was proved by the fact that Mr. Sergeant Wilde afterwards tleelaredsthat if they (the Corporation) . had prayed a tales they would not have been content with it. The trial again came on hi 13.33,.under great disadvantages to the Corporation; as they were deprived of the valuable service of his (the Town-clerk's) predecessor, who had devoted so great a portion of his time to the study', of the subject. And he was sure he spoke within com pass, when he stated that he (the late Town-clerk) was twelve months away from his family in - lodgings in Lon don, arduously engaged in endeavouring to to :establish this title. The trial came .on with the loss of his presence, which was an unfortuuate circumstance for the Corpo ration and the public at large. The trial also cause on, the Corporation being deprived of the advantage of Lord Tenterdeu as a judge, and was tried before Chiet Jus tice Denman and a special jury, and occupied one entire day and a half. Would it be believed, after the iesolutions of the merchants, that the Corporation had no title to the dues, that the cause went to the jury without a single witness being called to support their views? (Cheers.) New he would ask if the merchants were anxious to establish their right to the duei; why did they not give the jury the benefit of the contents of those voluminous documents which the y had laid upon that table, - and which occupied the attention f the commissioners for two days in reading.? Mr. Lowe's clerk here said that the documents were not pro duced by the advice of Mr. Sergeant Vs'ilasi. The 'town-clerk said, if they were of so much value as to be deemed requisite to occupy so much time of the Commissioners, they might also have been useful to the jury.—[:llie Town-clerk here read considerable portions of the evidence given in court by Mr. Chillingworth, Mr. Gladstone, Mr. Brooks, and other witnesses, corroborative of his statement.]—And added, that after the careful and minute summing up of the jedge, the jury did not hesitate more than a couple of minutes ineinding their verdict for the Corporation. He then proceeded to state, that, with regard to the alleged oppression of the town dues, there had only been four or five applications from 115 d to the ereseut period for a reduction of any partof them, which had been favourably re ceived by the Corporation ; and he instanced the cases of Mr. Horn by and others, to whom relief had been afforded iii 1825 and sub sequent years; and he felt hiniself bound to state, that if the merchants had made a fair representation to ie Common Council that any portion of those dues -was oppressive, theme would have been no less disposition in 1831, on their part, upon showing that one article was more heavily taxed than another, to have made similar concessions and mudi s fications to those made in 18')5. (Loud cheers.) He would state in that court that the Common Council had no interest whatever in the question beyond what related to the good of the community at large. In what way were the town dues applied but to the improvement of the town ? Improvements which had excited een ral admiration throughout :he kingdom. among the oh jects to which they were applied were the improvements at the inlets and outlets of the port—in that great work et the entrance of the river, alike calculated to save the lives of the mariners and the property of the merchants—he meant tie light-house. He could also refer to the great improvements in the vicinity of the docks, and the widening of those streets larmine the im- Mediate approaches to the docks, which were of the greatest advantage to the commerce of the port. The Town-clerk then adverted to the number of actions which had been brought against merchants, for which some blame had been im puted-A° the - Common Council, and explained that the reason was, that when the bill of discovery was filed by Mr. Bolton, fitly or sixty other merchants also refused to pay the dues. Consequently actions were commenced, and application was male to a judge to consolidate the ac tion. This was refused, but the proceelngs were staye.a, and in the meantime the sums theneeforwarti accruing to the Corporation for town dues were directed to be placed in the hands of Messrs. Heywood, to abide the issue of the actitia against Messrs. Bolton and Co. He then said it was upon the commissioners' notes that the greater part of the town dues was paid by foreigners, and. persons hviug away from the town of Liverpool, and at no period had there been remoustrances from people abroad, or from Manchester or other towns, to whom they were charged; and he drew a conclusion that the inhabi tants, freemen or non-freemen, were benefited by the payment of these dues, which were expended, as he had before shown, for the general benefit. In all large towns, the commissioners must be aware, there were heavy rates for the mainten ance of the police. and the courts of justice; and acts of Parliament were pass:,d to carry into effect the improvements of thoie towns. ile would iitstauce the greet improvements in the town of NI tuchester, one of the greatest of which was the widening of Market-street ; and how were those improvements effected? Why, by rates levied upon the inhabitants for such purposes. ( hear.) The Town-clerk then alluded to the appropriation of £5OOO or £7OOO to•the purposes of the poor rates paid by the corporate property, which was a great relief iu the general amount of those rates. He then referred again to -the question of the town dues, for the purpose of showing that, at the trial at West minster-hall, the hardship was stated to be that the freemtu were exempt, and not the complainants; but now it appeared that the question at issue was not the seine as in -February. Mr. Foster then alluded to the bill of exceptions tendered by the defendants' counsel, at the conclusion of the trial in Febrt ary. If •the ordinary course had been resorted to, the defeo dents, as the commissioners well knew, ought to have moved the court within the first four days of the succeeding term fora new trial. In not doing so they had pot it in the power of the Corporation to move,for affirming the judgment and issuing execution. In the month of April, he (the Town-cierk ) ap plied to Mr. Lowe for the particulars of the bill of exceptions, when Mr. Lowe undertook that. it should be immediately forth coming—since when, to the present tune, nothing more had been heard of it. He would further observe, in proof of the evils of the present state of the question of the town dues, that the ap plication of government to provide accommodation for the judges, to' bring home, according to the common phrase of the day, justice to every man's door in Liverpool—the granting of land for the Mechanics': Institute, of which they had katrdsomething from M r..Mu deneux—that and other matters all awaited the issue of that question. Let the bondholder knew (Said the Town-clerk) to what he had to look for the security of his property—bonds being in existence to the amount of nearly a _million sterling, and the maintenance of his rights and property.—( Loud and continued cheers.)-- a He hoped, therefore, when they made their report to the King, they would state the sources from whence the town dues were derived; and that they were expended f ur the improvement of the town, not only upon Corporation pro perty, bat if they would look to the map of the town they would find improvements, upon an extensive scale. made where the • Corporation had no property at all. The Corporation had a right to all their dues, and its expenditure was for public ob jects only. He called ; - he attention of the commissioners to the markets, baths, docks, and numerous other public works. He (Mr. Foster) then proceeded to congratulate himself and the commissioners that their labours were drawing to a close ; and .he also congratulated the Ceurnon Council, the bur gesses, and the inhabitants at large, that the charges of the misadpropriation of money, the jobbing, and the various other allegations which had been heaped upon them, had beets triumphantly answered; and that the Corporation were entirely freed .from them in the eyes of this community and the peop',e at large. And, whatever might be the issue of this inquiry, should the Legislature think fit to alter the numbers or the quality of the Comnitin Council,•he hoped that, in any commission which might hereafter sit upon a future Common Council,tbatbody might con: e out wi at. as clean hands as the present, and that all ultimate mea sures might be for the good of" the good old town of Liverpool mid the trade thereof." (Mr. Foster here sat down amidst . loud and long-continued cheers from every part of the court.) 'I be Mayor then rose, and observed that he perfectly , coin cided in all the sentiments uttered by the Town-clerk ; and concluded by saying that the Common - Council had always had the good of the town of Liverpool at heart, and would continue to have the same feeling. (Cheers.) Mr. Bolton then rose to make some observations on Mr. Fos ter's reply, whets the commissioners interrupted him by stating, that- they would hear him to-morrow; (this day;) at the same time observing that, as Mr. Foster would continue his reply on the Dock Estate, (also this day,) it might be more conv(Unent that Mr. Bolton should defer his observations until Mr. Paste had concluded, which was assented to by Mr. Bolton, and the court adjourned until this day, at ten o'clock.. LONDON LATEST NEWS. Wednesday Evening, half-past Seven o'clock. We learn by the accounts from Rome, that the French government had announced to the Pontifical authorities, through the medium of the Ambassador for France, that if the contemplated league, or Italian confederation, was carried into effect, the King of the French would not only be compelled to augment. his troops at Ancona, but also to take possession of Civita Vecchia. This an nouncement. is said to have created a very great sensation at the Papal court. The number of foreign residents at Rome, exclusive of those passing through the city, or at tached to the Embassies, was fifteen thousand persons. We have accounts from Naples to the 10th ult. No alteration had taken place in the sanatory regulations, which exhibit a strange inconsistency, fur while the steam-boats from Marseilles were allowed to pratique with passengers on board, the sailing.v.essels, whose length of voyage would render any display of sickness probable in a far greatei degree, were subject to a quarantine of observation of fourteen days. The exchange on London was 568. The commercial advices from Constantinople state that coffee was quoted at 830 to 8400., but that the sales had become rather flat. English manufactures were in demand, and all the recent arrivals had found anarket. It. appears by the accounts from the East, that the Americans have concluded a treaty with the Siamese government upon the same terms as that concluded by the English .but.that they could not obtain permission to have a Consul resident at Bankok, the Siamese al leging, that it having been refused to the English, they could not grant it to the Americans. We have a general opinion prevalent here, that a schism of no little violence has arisen in the administra tion, and that the Lord Chancellor has, in no measured terms, commenced a tilt against the Premier-; the English people may 'eventually have cause to rejoice at this, for when certain persons fall out, honest men get their own again. We have had the settlement of the consol account to day, and it has passed without defalcation. The price for the. new account has been done at 88 1. An ex press was received from Fahnou h, this morning, an nouncing the arrival of th t Mexican packet, with intelligence of the defeat and annihilation of the rebel force under Arista. This caused an advance in the bonds of near 3 per cent., 33 to 37 being the quotation. Little has been (hoe in any other security. Russian bonds closed at WV; ; Dutch, at 49 *; and Portu gu-se'Eegency Securities, (!) at tioe Spanish Scrip is 29e. LONDON LATEST SHIPPING NEWS. Lloyd's, Five o'clock, Wednesday. The ballot has taken place here to-day resuNqing the grant of £l,OOO to the new register of British and foreign shipping. The numbers were, For the grant - 171 Against it.. l4 Majority for the grant .. Information has been received at Lloyd's, that abltit 400 casks of tallow, saved from the John Reid, Rae, from St. Petersburg to Liverpool, was to be shipped by the Jacob Adolphus, Langstroen, ..and that the remainder would probably be sent to Elsinore fur transhipment to Liverpool. The Hardware, - from Liverpool, has arrived at Trieste the Sophia Pate, Meadows, also from the same. port, ar rived at Trieste: on the 13th instant. The Porcia, from Liverpool, aj:rived at Leghorn on the 12th instant, with a general cargo. The Prompt, Barnes; from Liverpool to Buenos Ayres, was wrecked at the entrance of the river Plate, on the 23d of August ; the master and one. man saved. The Nymph, Gray, from Liverpool, has arrived at Virginia. The Industry, M'Neill, from Liverpool, has arrived at Wilmington. _ The Benjamin, Morgan, from Liverpool, has arrived at Philadelphia. The Ajax, Hiern, the Caledonia, G,.eyham, and the Mogul, Black, have arrived at New York, from Liver pool. The Devereux of Liverpool, for Demerara, was spoken on the 20th instant, in lat. 50, long. 11 ; and the Egre mont, from Liverpool to St. John's, N. 8., on the 12th instant, in lat. 52, long. 27. The Admiral Benbow, Dixon, the Minerva, Lamb, the Robert, Harper, and the Rosalind,Gemmill, from Liver pool, have arrived at Quebec. The Gem, M'Kenzie, and the Velocity, Gardner, from Liverpool, have arrived at Newfoundland ; and the Mary, from the same port, has arrived at New Orleans. TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL ST_IN►D.IRD. S 11,-1 have to request that you will correct an error in your report of the nineteenth day's proceelings of the Liverpool it:- gnu y. The expressions of which I complaiu are thee,—" Pro bably some black sheep might hay. crept into the Common Council." An insinuation like this I ti'ither uttered nor meant to convey. What I did say was, —"lam the burgesses Were a numerous body, and it would be wonderful indeed if there were not some black sly , ep among them ; and, supposing a burgess committed murder, were ad the buige3,es to be hung for it?" Your reporter in this passage has substituted ." the Common Council' for the word " burgesses." Presuming that a poor man's speech is as much entit:ed to a corre , t report as his richer neighbour's, I take the liberty of troubling you with these correctious.—l am, Sir, you obAient set-vant, JOHN HUNTINGTON. THE CHASL. Sir Thomas Stanley's fox hrnuids will meet to-morrow, (Satur day.) at Gayton ; Tuesday, Dec. 3, at Ince.—At ten o'clock. Mr. Wickstead7s fo% hounds will tneer to-morrow, (Saturday,) at Willowbridge ; Tuesday. Dee. 3, at Aquaiate; Friday, Dec. 6, at Shallowford.—At ha:tprst ten. The Cheshire fox hounds will meet tomorrow, (Saturday,) at Weaver Hall; Monday, Dec. 2, at K.elsall Toll Bar; Wednes day, Dec. 4, at the Black Dod;. t i itq'