The Sun. — London, England, 1806-06-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL .PAR-LIA HEST. MOUSE OF PEERS. MONDAY, JUNE 2. • Ar r . Alderman COMBE, and several other Mem bers of the House of Cann - ions, brought up the Temple-bar Lottery Bill ; which was read a - first time. Mr. RICKMAN, from the Commissioners of the Caledonian Canal, presented the third Report of that Board. Mr. Ittymo, litspeetor-General of Exports and Imports, presented several Aceomits relative- to- the Con,rnerceof the Island of Tortola. THE IMPEACHMENT. Stiangers were then excluded; and we understood their •Urdships proceMed to resume the considera- Con of the evidence adduced on the Trial of Lord. Viscount Melville. The House continued in discussion- till-twelve o'clock, when we understood the further- consideraL• e'en of the subje& was postponed till to-niorrow.-- -Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, JUNE 2. The Surrey Iron Railway. Bill was - read a second time on the Motion of Lord WILLIAM RUSSELL, as Was a!sothe Croydouiroußailwayßill ; which were tespeatvely ordered to be committed. On the Motion of 141 r, C4l,ct..trr, a new Writ was orderaib lie. issued for the Borough of Haul ton, in the room of the Hon. Cavendish Bradshaw, who, sinceltis.eletlion; had.ac.c.e pled. the office of one of the 7ellers of His Majesty : s, 4xchequer. A .ille4ige' from the Lords announced their Lord ships ' agreement to, the London Pock Sir WILLIAM CUiTI3 presented a Petition frOm the Shipbuilder's, Mastmakers, Blockmakers,'Boat builders, tic: of London, against the American In , texcourse Bill.—Ordered.tO lie on the Table until the second reading. - The Philanthropic Society Incorporation Bill was ;read a second time, on the' Motion of l) Mr. 'Hot.- foa, and ordered to be committed.. IRISH LitLISINESS, The Report of the Irish , Militia Volunteer pill was brought up; and the, further consideration of it put off tiii Thursday. . Mr. Fos# it broughtup the Bill for Improving the Post - Roads" of Ireland, which was read a first time. Mr.l±ogz;an moved that it should be read a second time on Thursday. Sir'.Toni4 NEwßorty said, that this was a Bill of consi/l/Table importance; and, therefore,:.he thought the Right Hon: Gentleman ought to allow a longer time before the second,reading of the Bill, in order that it might be - known in Ireland. Mr. Fosvn said, that the alterations in the Bill would be made in the Committee ; he, therefore; thought it would be better, that the delay should take place after the Bill had been through the Committee. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be printed. , . • On the Motion of Mr. FOMR, the-second read. ing of the Foreign Linen Drawback Bill, which was fixed for Wednesday next, was postponed to Thurs day. Mr. JOHNSTONE, from the Office of ' the Chief Secretary for Ireland; presented . an , Account of tilt .quantity of Spirits distilled in Ireland fur. certain pe riod:i.—Ordered to lie on the Table. • The Dublin Paving was read a. second time, and ordered to be Coli.mitted onThursday. Mr. PARNELL brought up the Report of tUe Com mittee of Ways and Means, relative . .to the Irish substituted Tax on Malt, ;. &c. The - Resolutions were severally agreed to, ..and a Bill ordered ac cordinglk: . - The Irish Stamp Duty Bill was read a third time and passed. • Mr. VANSITTA4T presented an Account of the manner in which the sum of.. 500,0001. granted Tor the improvement of the Inland Navigation of Ire land bad been expended.—Ordered to lie on the • Table. Mr. Maui, from the East-India House, present ed some India, Papers, which were ordered to be printed.' Mr. P kULL gave notice, that on ThUrsday he would move for evidence relative to his • Charge against Marquis Wellesley respeding his condua in Onde. Mr. VAN4ITTART obtained leave to , hring in a Bill to abolish the Fees of the Custom-house O ffi cers of the Port of London, and to regulate the attendance of the said Officers. Mr. VANSITTART observing, that a Paper relative to the Barrack Department had been omitted by a Noble Lord,. in his Motion the other night, moved, That there be laid before the House a Copy of. the Letter from Major Davis, Assistant 'Barrack Master: General in the Isle of Wight, dated the 31st of Ja nuary, 1806, together with a Copy of the Affidavit of.W. Ward, transmitted therewith.—Ordered. In answer to a question from Mr. Ross'orr, rela tive. to the prpciation of the Papers formerly moved for, Mr. VANSITTART said, that. those Papers, loge-. tiler. with .that which- had just been ordered, would be presented in the course of the evening. Lord TEMPLE brought up a Billfor' the better en couragement'of ' the Thread Lace Manufadory in Great Britain. Read a first time, 'and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday. _ _ _ _ On the Motion•of lA)rdTEm . PLE, the Second read ing of the American Intercourse Bill was postponed to Thursday, after a few observations from Mr. Mose and Sir Charles Price. Ordered, on the Motion of Mr. ROSE, that there be laid before the House Copies of ti .•_. Memorials from Upp'::t and Lower Canada and Nova Scotia, in lEout , skewing what these Colonies were capable of . producing. The SECRETARY at WAR presented the several Pa pers ordered relative to Barracks in the Isle of Wight.-,Ordered to lie on the Table,. and to be printed. MARQUIS %VELLESLEY. Mr. Paum..gave, notice, that he shoUld on Mon day next be ready to give in his Ferruckabad Charge aga►nst Marquis Wellesley. • Lord TEMPLE intimated, that if the Hon. Gentle man bet►iud him (Mr. Paull) should not propose some specific day for taking the Charge already printed into consideration, he should feel him self bound to move for ita being taken into consi derdiion on some early day. •,The Itiuse 1,voul(1 he aware of the iiroptiety.of 'coming to some decision on the subjett, not only with asiosv, to the clt2rike-7 ter and feelings gf the accused, buvlso in earl~ jdera n tion of the crime of mnrderiinpl,ted in the Cliarqe, - . Mr. PAuLL-observed,, that as soon as the.Paper,i. for which he had moved should be laid before the House; he would fix some early day for taking the. Charge into consideration,,but in that he should.con sult only hii own convenience. Mr..VAsiTTART brought up.the nil., for the:bet ter exatitination:of the Public Accounts In the .West- Indies.---Read a first time, ordered.tobe read a se cond titne to-morrow, .and:printech . COMMITTEE Of ,SUPPLY. On the Motion of Mr. VANSITTAKT, the House went into a Committee of. Supply, to..which the Ac counts presentecton-Fridaylastirelative to the amount and issue of 'Exchequer Bills was referred. A.:Re solution that . a sou v of .- 4,500,000L in Exchequer Bills be granted to his Majesty for paying off, Ex- Cheqper Bill's issued for the service of the year 18Q, now outstanding and not discharged, was 'agreed to ; and the House being resumed, the Report was order ed to be received to-morrow. PROPERTY OR 114COMt DUTY. Lord HENRY PETTY gave notice,' that before the close of the present SesSion he. should tupVe for leave to bring in a Bill to allow exemptions from the Property Tax to persons in certain cases •having;low, incomes and. large families. • It.would be- recolleaed that when the Property Tax Bill was under diS- . cussion, he had stated his opinion, that these ex ethptions.could not be introduced into . the Bill in the . same fdrth as in former 'Bills without materially. -affeaing the produce of theTai, and in this the House had concurred with him. It was desirable, however, that in the cases to which be alluded, every reason able relief should be grahted, and he had the satiS faaion to State; that the Bill, which.it was his inten tion to' bring forward in the course of the present. Session, would give the exemptions without being liable to any of the objeaions .that applied to the former mode. He took that opportunity too of stating, that in consideration of the suggestions that :had been thrown out by Gentlemen, he meant to impose the duty on Private Brewing as an assessed tax, leaving out the Excise clause altogether, which he had introduced only -for the purpose of giving an opportunity - to the party, in cases wherein .it appear ed t 6 him that such opportunity would be desirable. un Mr. PERCEVAL w lshgd to know, how the Noble Lord proposed to ascertain who are, and who are not, Private Brewers ? Lord HENRY PETTY replied, that persons charged to the assessed taxes were to be required to give in a statement in their returns, whether or not they were Private Brewers. COMMITTEE 1:314 . MUTINY BILL. . . Mr, Secretary WINDHAM moved the Order:of the Day for the House to go into a Committee on the Mutiny Bill. . . , . - The House having resolved into the Committee; and the question for tilling up the blank, in the form of-the oath to be .taketi by the Soldiers hereafter' to be enlisted, with the numberseven, . Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that the whole 1 of the clauserelating to the limits of service should be left out. He took that opportunity of stating his objeetions - to the clause, which the more he consider ed the more forcibly convinced hint of , the para mount duty of pressing his obje6tions upon the at tention of the House. He should, hoWever, avoid going into the detail arising out of the question, and confine himself in that instance to the prominent features of the measure.. Every Member must be mare of the painful difficulties, and the embarrass, ing situation in which the House was placed, by be ing calledon to decide on 'a detailed military question, with little notice, and little detailed information. — The Right Hon. Gentleman had been four months in office belige he had made up his mind upon the Subjed ; and yet the'House was - now to be called on to decide finally upon it in three or four days, with . - out even the advantage of such 'lights as the Right Hon. Gentlemen Opposite poisessed.. This was neither creditable to the pioceedings of that House, nor to His Majesty's Ministers. He considered the present measure as a more serious, distind, and:ex tensire infra6tion and infringement of the preroga tives of the Crown than had ever been submitted to Parliament, and that too without being warranted' by necessity, for the Gentlemen Who brought it for ward admitted that there was no immediate neces sity calling for the measure. According .to the ,prac tice of Parliament, the estate of the 'CrOWn, the right of mercy, or the exercise of any other . inde pendent function of the Royal Prerogative, was in no case touched by that House without a direa , communication on the part of the Crown. This would be the first instance of. Parliament interfering with the Royal Prerogative in such a way, for he would shew, how the prerogative of the sword could be distinguished from that of mercy. The distnic- Aron of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Canning), be 'tween the. Army of the CroWn- and that of Parlia ment, was just, though misunderstoodby the Secre tary of State. The Militia and Army of Reserve were raised by . Parliament in aid of the Army of the' CroWn, and on conditions that it ne‘ler could think of apply*, to the Regular Army. ThiS - wai . ikairst instance. of a Minister of the 'Crown recommend ing such measure ; a proposal of the' same de; kription had at one time proceeded 'from another quarter, Which he should notice before he sat down. if this Bill should pass, the CroWn, which in his apprehension at present possessed the. right of raising men for limited or unlimited service, without any re striaion,would be precluded from raising men on any other terms than those Unposed by this Clause for seven years, either for temporary purposes at home, or for local service in our Colcinies. The measure would thus, without entering into the question whether it was wise or not, have the effat of narrowing the prerogative of the Crown, and that without any .ne cessity or any security that it would produce the advantages expeCled from it. Another objeetion he felt, arnoe Oct of the manner in which this measure had been brought forward. He 'thought that any legislative interference on this subject was unwise. The Only instance in which such a proposal had been made before, had been brought, not by a Minister of the Crown, but by a Member of that House, not in the shape of a clause in a Mutiny Bill, but as a separate Bill. This proposal had been Subrnitted to that House in 1769, by a respe6table Gentleman, Mr. I'. Pitt, from a jealousy of a standing ArMy, with a view to diminish its, numbers, whereas,.th: ptesent measure 'was broqht forFard with a .0.-icrease;the ArMy. The Noble Lor - d - here read. ;•,t;-extra&from Mr. Hatsas lii)ok, to show that to attempt,to carry 'u measure: by tacking` it to a ' lliii ;.-;.ipply was highly -irregular, stud a breach : of that anode of proceedieg that was prglised both :I-louses. He admitted that it was desirable to have a larger Army, but he denied that this measure would be effectual to that end. It was , not, however ; for want of, a disposeahle fOrCe, that no &eater Three had beet detaphed last campaign to the: Cunti nett. . In addition to the twenty-five thousand men • a&uaily sent, forty thousand were ready, if it had been ; 'thought wise to send them Never was a more roman- N tic plan of recruiting an. Army thaathis,which began, by dismembering it. - If he had beep the dtithor of such a measure, it would have been considered an instance of the charaileristie imputed to the COfintry : to which .he had the honour to . belong. -If the Plan were even to be successful to the greatest extent ex- Peaed from it, the Country would be in a worse situa tion as to the Army than at present. The Noble Lord, here sheaved, that therecruiting for limited set.- - vice had not produced as many men in the American. ' 'War as• had , been raised in the late War for The limited 'service was no inducement to men. In '1799 the -Militia - consisted of 80,000 men, and Par- . liattent allowed 46,000 to enlist into the Line for five yearS, or &ring the war, and for service confined to Europe, and only 26,000 volunteered. In 180.5 the .Militia consisted of 70,00; acid Parliament' al : leWed 14,000 to enlist for life into the Line; hilt the Colonels were alloWed to. set apart one-half of their Regirfients, 'so that the recruiting aeted only upon 35,000, and yet nearly i 1,000 men had enliSted. Marquis Cornwallis recommended; in 1799,t0 enlist' the men from the Irish Militia for life.;:and the whole 9000, except ?no, took the bounty of 12 guineas tbr life service rather. than to guineas - for limited ser •vice. The Noble Lord- then argued at great length, and with ability, that this measure would have a very serious et e& on the discipline' . of the Aripy. The, Noble Lord then proceeded, by n variety of ingenious Caletlations, founded upon the re turns respecting the amount and supply of the seven battalions of Guards, to shew that each man; after twenty-one years, would have cost the country 3421. He also shelved, than at the en& of .seven years 'the number to be discharged would be one-eleventh part of the gross force; at the end of fourteen years 1-224 part of it; and at the end ofWenty-one years 1-108th part of it, which proportion on at assumed Army of 250,000 men, would leasie at the end of fourteen, years 30,000 to be provided for ; and 'if . ..one-half were to be supposed to re-enlist, there would, be 15,000 men to be raised •to supply - the deficiency created' by the Bill, in addition to the . ordinary casualties of thelirmy.- The Noble Lord then went into a variety of other caleulations to prove the waste of the public money :that would be the consequence of the ' measure, the result of which was, that after twenty-one years the increased expencewonld be annually for bounties 380,0001. 5 additional sixpences 162,0001. ; pension 'after 14 years service '792;0001. ; pension aftei 21 years service 684,0001:; maklog a total of 2,0 1 8,0001. additional annual expence which ,votild be created ,by this measure, • independent of ;any additional -: pay that 'might be in contemplation for the Officers of the Army. The plan of the Right Hon. Gen tlernan too would deprive the country. of the pos : - sibility of any reduCtion. in the expellee during Peace. The Noble Lord, admitting The AclicaCy of touching upon the topic, insisted that on every ground Of justice the seamen would have a claim upon Par liament for a similar provision, if this should be granted to, the ArMy, which would make the annual expencc three milllons additional, or one-tenth of the present naval and military expenditure of the country. They were submitting to ten millions of a Property Tax to relieve posterity from the burthen of half a million, which would be the interest of it if that sum were borrowed ; and he therefore called upon the Commitlge to pause, before they should agree to a measure that would entail an annual expence of three millions upon their posterity. The Noble Lord con eluded an able speech of two hours length by a re= capitulation of the various points .npou which he had principally dwelt. . • Jr. GRATTAN thought the Noble Lord might have been more moderate in his strictures on this plan, - When some plan was confessedly necessary, and neither the Noble Lord himself, nor any of his associate; had any plan to offer. Ile condemned the manner in*hich the Noble Lord argued, that. this measure would be inefficient - in procuring tnen,while it would create charges that would be oppressive to the Country. Every one must see that the charges' could be incurred only in proportion as men were obtained. In the 'American War the limitation of . service had been tried with elle& The Noble Lord trust have forgotten that the Army Reserve and the Additional Force A&, measures of the Admi nistration of.which he Was a tnember,were calculated on the same principle. If it was as the Nroble Lord contended, that 'the soldier naturally preferred enlist ing for life, then these Mts were unnecessary, and instead of an additional:bounty to the men, there . . ought to have been a drawback to the Nation (a laugh). - Btlt it was - • irripOsSl4l6, that ' any man could prefer an engagement for _life to an engage ment for a term of years. Froth the Inquiries made by the Noble Lord, and the inforniation he had cpl leiSted, it appeared that:a man of 40 may live 22 years. Was it possible, then, that a min of that age should set no value upon so many, years. fitter for the quiet ,occupations of private life than for the 'naive duties of a military station. The Noble Lord did not recommend the revival of the ballot ; he did not recommend a requisition,. for the people of this 'free Country could not bear it; he did not recom mend the enforcement of the Additional Force Act ; he did not recommend an increase of bounty in pro portion to the relatanee to enter, on. the present terms. The Noble Lord then would recommend unlimited bounty, which was a premium 'on deier tion, and" unlimited service, which was a penalty. As to the disposition to entering for life being . as great as the disposition to enter for a term of years,he would ask, whether afelon having a leaSe of his life . for its natural term would exchange it for a lease for seven years, and whether a person subje& to a . penalty for life would readily commute it for a pe nalty tbr 7 years; The answer was most clearly given by the calculation of the Insurance ,Office, that a 'man.of 40 was likely to:-live 22 years. When the, limited service of the Army of Reserve . and the 'Ad r ditioual Force was supposed to attrsa men by, dupe „riot; a'ad when an audittoniti bouety - of six guineas was given for general service, theprin ciple of the present measure was recognised: The force of the attraction was aci‘nowledge.l . when it wins contended that •the advantages to tie given to the new soldiers would excite a mutiny it; the exist , ing Arm; and in the 'Navy. ';‘ yet when measures at the same nature bad .been carried into et - Ted in tbr mer instances no mutiny had been' excited, no dis content had arisen. • The condition of the seamen and the sokliers had.been much improved .since then times heath:de(' to and vas it to be supposed that they wouldnow be discontented with so little cause, ;when they had remained. quiet under 6o much great- er prOvocation ? Thus much in eSv'ver to the Noble Lord's arguments. of expence and noneciperatione-- When the soldier. obtained benefits, with 4revereiOu ary interest. in the liberties of his Country, was it to :be sapnosed he received a consideratiynealcialated.to damp his zeal ? When he received benetits, the-ad vantage of which was great, though the cost 'bad been exaggerated by the Noble Lord, , and when at the expiration of seven years he was to reiorti to 111.4 aris etfocis, was it to be supposed, that 'all the mo tives by which all men were stimulated to every thing great and good, would make him good tar nothing I If the Spartans had to engage the 'Persians without the impulse-of any consideration of this kind, if they were not to contend. pro al is et focis-,. they would probably have fled ; but they halthem, and they— fell. Ifthese interests were;, notallowed to• operate, we slinuld employ Mamelokese,or other. externs, men•who could not be expected w have any regard . for the CoUntry. 71:11e :Place Bill did not exclude from Par - bat - dent men,holding, military commissions under the crown; because the Legislature consider ed that OtlierS. had an interest 'in the liberties of th?., Country , it was, this interest that, enabled them to inspire, their.. men with a vigour that was abk4utely irresistible:. It was not be6insta • we were stronger men, or because we had better op portunities of acquiring a knowledge of war, 'hat our Armies always came off NV nth S() Much glory i• but because the Commander was not aduat;xl by an 'mechanical prieciple of:discipline; but by a spi 'Tit of liberality Which enabled him to animate and fire his battalions with an ardour which made their' absolutely invincible. To. extend that ardour, with the interest that created it, from the Officers to the Soldiers, was •,he Objea of his Right Hon.. Frienci'S, Plan., 'The Objea el the, Noble Lord was to con firm the present exCluSiOn of the Soldier, and to ex.- tend it to the Officer.. The RaLTIZIAS would not ad mit their 6th ClasS to Soldiers,' because they had no property to give them an interest in the prospte rity of tlie State. Noble Lord svould not deny that the ffornans, were.amOng the first examples stir ppint of military,shill, But the Romans. ceased to• connea the - Citizen and the Soldier, when, tr Pretbrian Bands were inlisted for iii years,' and th remaindet, Of the Army - fur 20, the Roman St& diers ceased td formidable. to the s Enerny, and were terrible only to' the State' and to the People,— The reason Carthage was unsuccessful in her Contest with_Roine was, that she depended on Sol diers who bad . no interest in her indepentlenee did not suppose the principle he coedcinnedlece4 be by any one carried to such an extreme as to amount to 'a wish togiVe this Country an Army of - Substitutes';' but the introduaion of the principle in'any way would. tend to render the Army worse for the Conatry; and less capable of contending tc tnerily. France had the advantage over us in nurribers, and in military experience ; it was composed of the flifWer of the French People ; and the Army we Would oppbse to it ought to be cool , posed of therflaiWer - of our's. It was not by supe riority Of nunibth, not by superiority Of discipline, not by superiority of physical. strength, that we, conquered-them, but by the superiority of the peo ple, by:their Consciousness of a superior existence, by an invincible public mind, arising from the high station on which we stood—the exaltedline along which we niareiteda proud, eminence, in whith. no Gaul, no - German, no King 'of Prussia, could place its, but in which every one of us was placed by ,the new Constitution of England. This '.ed - hint to the subordinate plan of the training en masse. A people so trained, though not less capable of being opposed - in' battle - to a 'regular discip l +ined 'force, would:: empower - able Officers to take advantages Which Would give the result of vi&ory even toe serieja of defeats: , This was the course that had been so successful in America. 'lt Was that so successfully pursued by -Fabius in the Sabine Hills, and, that ',re stomd victory to Rome after the annihilation of four Consular Armies. France was a country not.occupied by inditkrions pursuits, not by commerce, not by - not by political discussions. Hence an eternal danger was to be apprehended :front-them, and art eternal and inexhaustible resource was to be provid6d against that danger. - The general training afforded tharresource. The People'of this Country, at;itnati!.d by the spirit which was the• Consequence of liberty, and disciplined by the proposed training, would_ nit yield.to any invading fbrce; and if - ever they we're overcome, their resistance would be such that there would-be a pride in their failure. In answer to thoiS4 who contended that the Army ought to be regulated entirely by the CrYwn,' and taught to,look up to ,it alone, he urged'the Mischievous influence of such doc trine S.. In all wars, but particularly in all in which. invasion was threatened, we had to contend for Oar Constitution and Our safety. If we surrender oarC:otistitution, w pwould give up that which made our - safety ,valuable,-and we would be lesS , animated with a desire to fight for it. .It was therefore, 'that the Mutiny A& that Martial' Law,' the payment of the. Army, and the distivaions of service, were so distin6tly and precisely regulated by Parliament ; and if any Minister or any 'King transgressed 'what Parliament laid down en these, sUbjects, he would, be guilty of a breach of the law, and a violation of the ,Constitution. Our ancestors were so jealous 'lest the doctrines laid down, by theeNoble . .Lord Should one day be brought forward,' that ..they introduced into the preamble of the Mutiny Att the' DeclaratiOn Of Rights against Standing Armies, and in allowing that constitutional prohibition to, be suspended, recorded, for, the preservation of the constitutional principle, thedifficUlty with whipeh .1 they had consented to that suspension, and the CAM 1 they' took of the'pnticiple, by enacting, that the Mutiny Bill and - the payment of the Army should bet - annual. Thus tho Ugh thu Army was a Standing Army, it was yet a Parliamentary Army, and net less aCon, •stitutidnal Army. ,Heece he col:tended,' that to leave • the Army entirely to the tontroul of tbe, sing was unconstitutional.' He voted for tins Plan became it