The Sun. — London, England, 1806-06-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. TUESDAY ) ,JUNE 10. The House proceeded in the Appeal from the Court of Chancery, "Mary Gecn - giana Seymour, an infant, by her next Friend, against the Earl of Euston and Lord Henry Seymour." The Solicitor , General, at considerable' length, went over m os t o f the arguments urged in this Cause in the Court of Chancery, and was followed on the same side by Mr. Adam, The further consideration of the ap peal was then postponed till to-morrow. During the hearing of fhe Appeal, the Bishop . of WINCHESTER addressed the House in further con firmation of an affidavit, made by his Lordship, which had been referred to by the SoliCitor-General, relative to the education of Miss .Seymour in the Faith of the Church Of England, The Loan CHANCELLOR observed, that whatever degree of resped they might entertain for the opi nions of the Right Reverend Prelate, their Lordships could only look to what was in evidence before them. The Irish Stamp Duties Bill was read a third time acid passed,' and a Message sent to, the House of Commons to acquaint them therewith. Strangers were excluded, whilst. their Lordships discussed some matter of privilege brought forward by the Earl of LIMER/CIC. The discuSsiOn continued some time: : - StrangerS were re-admitted, but no public business «as .done, and very soon afterwards they were again excluded, when, we .understood, the consideration of the evi dence adduced on the trial of Lord Vi§count Melville was resumed. • The House continued in discussion . till eleven o'clock, when, we understood, an Order was made to proceed further on the Trial of Lord Viscount Melville on Thursday, and a Message ordered to he sent to the House of Commons to acquaint them therewith. Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUF6DAY, JUNE 10. Sir /cam ANDERSON brought up •a Petition from the Parish of St. Leonard, Shoreditch, in favour of the East London Water Works' Bill.—Ordered to . Tie on the Table. On the Motion of Sir Jowsr SINCLAIR, it was ordered to be an instrudion to the Committee ap pointed to consider of the Laws relative to Wag- Kons, &c. on the Highways throughout the U n ited ingdoms, to take into their consideration the Mt of the 28th of the. King, chap. 27, relative,to Outside Passengers on Stage Coaches. Mr. HOBHOUSE brought up the Report of the Committee of Ways and - Means of yesterday; which was agreed to, and a Bill ordered to be brought in accordingly. Mr. VANSITTART brought up the . Scotch Distillery fill; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday next, and to be printed. The Irish Malt Duty Bill was read a third time and passed. LOAD WELLESLEY. Sir A. WrEtA.EsLr,Y, agreeably to naite, moved for certain Papers, illustrativeof.Marquis Wellesley's condUa as to the Nabob of Oude. These, the Ho nourable Baronet stated, went to show - what elle& the Noble Mirquis's' conduet bad had on the Mann faelnres of Oude, which the Hon. Gentleman had stated to be so great. They consisted of an extr act from the Proceedings of the Governor and Council, in 1803, containing a letter (from the Hot). Gentle man hirriself) signed " James Paull," dated sth De cember, 1802 ; in which certain compliments are paid to the Governor-General, wherein it is said, that no person ever applied to him in vain; and of the Answer to that ,Letter, by the Secretary to the Governor-General, dated 10th March, 1803. -Mr: PAULL stated, that at the date . of the answer he was six- weeks on his return to England. He un doubtedly had expressed that he had great grievances • to complain of, and that he did feel himsellf greatly aggrieved. The Motion was agreed to, and a return, as to , certain other Papers on the same subje&, was order ed to be made forthwith. • ' The foreign Thread Lace Bill went through a Cotrnittee, and the Report was ordered to be re ceived to-morrow. ASSESSED TAXES Ou the Motion of Lordliaxav PETTY, the House went into a Committee on the General Assessed Tax 6i, when his Lordship moved that a sum not exceed l.ig 41. per Cent. per Annum, on the Assesed Taxes, be allowed to every person having more than two .children born in lawful wedlock, assessed under that Mt in. a sum under 401. per annum, and who were bona fide , burdened with the maintenance of such chddren. TIVSKISSON wished to know if the allow ance was meant to be permanent, or temporary, that is to say, only to be a mitigation of the severities of the Plopeity Tax. • If the former, he did not think it went far enough, but must extend an immense deal beyOnd " what the Noble Lord .had proposed. for instance, to the Stamp Duties, which were also admitted to be severely felt. If we once admitted such a prim iple; there was no stopping, and it wonld lead to a. latitude which the Country could not admit of; and the very circumstance, too, which en , . titled a person to the exemption, would operate as a bar to 'his partiCipating of its benefits. The largeness of a man's family might, in many instances,.particu larly if, from 'his situation in the world, he was obliged to keep a male servant, compel him to oc cupy a house the' taxes on which, in window and House duty, &e. would amount to more than 401. per annum. It would be absurd to think, that a pet son in this situation should be deprived of the be- Petit of the e4emption proposed by the Noble Lord, while, to make it more effeEtnal and equally avail-- able to all, it would be iicessary that a particular' law should be enaPed for every family in the king dom. Lord HENRY PEY'TY stated, that the exemp. tion had been pro Posed as a relief from the g ener al burden'of ,taxati, - in. to which it had been foundne ! . cessary to resort. Wbether that relief sh o uld b e perrnan ‘ eut, or onlytempbrary„ it was not for him fo say, that must depend on che. opinion 'et the House at a future, period.: to the last objeetio.i cf the Hun. Gentleman; he had only to obsery.6, that the case to which he had alluded was tit pcin cipall)i in view when the exemption in . question was propsse& Mr—Hu.siissoN and Lord Hay PETTY ag3in eichaiiged - a few words.. • • Mr. \lrtizzarottcz _expressed his preference to the exemption now proposed to any which could have been given under the Property Tax, in so far as a man haying a large family was by that very cir cumstance obliged to contribute in a greater, degree to the Aisessed Taxes. In answer to a question' from • Mr. "Haskisson, Lord Henry Petty estimated this allowance at t 00,0001. • SLAVE TRADE. Mr. Secretary FOX,rase, agreeable to notice,' to submit to the House a Resolution declaratory of their sense of the injustice, inhumanity, and irapolicy of the Slave Trade.' Before, however, he went into any statement of the grounds on which . he with confidence looked for the -ahnost unanimous coun tenance of the House in thii measure; he felt him self called on to state in a few words his own apo logy for being the person by whom such a Motion Should be made. This subject had been roeatedly brought forward, year after year, for the last 16 or 17 yearS, by a respectable Member of this House, than whom no man, either from his talents, elo quence, zeal in the cause, or, from the estimation in which ,he was held in that House, or in the Coun try, could be better qualified for the task: In such hands he • had found the business, and there he would willingly have left it. His own opinion was, that it could have been better that that Honourable Friend 1:;f his had Made the present Motion, or such other Motion as he would have wished on the sub. jeer, and to which he could not have doubted that he should have had the support of him (Mr. Fox) and his friends: A. strong opinion however had pre vailed with his-Honourable - Friend, . and with those with whom he was conneded, that all circumstances considered it would be better thal the business should originate with him (Mr. Fox). He had yielded his own opinion on this subjeet to that of his Hon. Friend and those who a&ed with him—and, how ever certain persons might be inclined to consider and to represent it as a fanciful theory, he had no hesitation in declaring, that he should esteem his political life of 30 or 40 years well spent if be should be so fortunate as to comeass the end to which his present Motion waSdireaed. Having explained. so far, he should go -on to state those circumstances which seemed to him to warrant the Motion which he had to make, so far as he should feel' it necessary. He could not, in doing so, commence without ob serv:ng, that he was happy to say, that Whatever dif f iculties had occurred in that , House with respe& to the Abolition of the SlaVe Tratle, the opinion of the House, he should not s a y unanimous, but as nearly so as well could be recorded by the Resolu tions of the House itself, was, that the Slave Trade was contrary to justice, humanity, and sound policy. As had been well remarked by a great man, now no more, but whose opinions, wherever' justice or any moral feeling was interested, would long be re membered with pride and veneration (Mr. Burke), it was not a traffic in the labour of man, but in man himself, and was calculated- to keep down and de base .humanity. He should not enter into the argu ments adduced by some Gentlemen who had sup :ported the Trade, who alledged that the crime (if crime it was) was not imputable to those who em barked in the Trade . froin this Country; that the persons whom they carried off were Slaves before, condemned as such on account of offences -com mitted by them. Such arguments, he said, was only adding - hypocrisy to the lust of gain, and at tempting to vindicate what was contrary to nature. Supposing the persons alluded to have been legal ly rendered Slaves, was the British Government to sanaion, and British Ships and Seamen to con du& the Police of the African Monarchs , !—Such an idea, he submitted, was only one of the many instance's, how far the luSt of gain could pervert. human reason. Except the, opinion of the Hon. General opposite (though he rather believed he was not so loud in his defence of the. Trade On the broad principle of humanity), and an illustrious Friend of his in' the - other • House, who thought the Trade so proper, that if it should be discontinued, a b o u nty ' ought to be given to encourage its .revival, he was inclined to think that he had no very determined Opposition'to the principle of his Motion to encoun ter. He should not qUote the authority of that great man lately 'deceased (Mte Pitt), whose name and opinion was so frequently referred to, though he thought, if good, and to be held out for example by his friends in a political question, it must be no less worthy of their imitation in a moral point ,of' view, as then their approbation would wear a less , suspicious appearance.. He should, however, quote the authority of a Noble Viscount (Sisimouth), the Speaker's predecessor, though not immediate, in that Chair, who, while he opposed the Abolition at the time it was originally moved, agreed in the pro priety of adopting it at a future period. He should also quote the authority of another' Noble Viscount (Melville), who, while he did at the moment all in his power to support the Trade, proposed, as a sub stitute for the immediate' Abolition, Resolutions si milar in their terms to those which he took as the basis of his present Motion—That the Trade was contrary to " Humanity, Justice, and sound Policy," and therefore should be abolished at some future period. He took those words rather than any other as the basis of his Motion, hoping that he should thereby secure .the ,concurrence of those who for merly themselves proposed them, and wishing as little as possible to provoke contrariety of opinion. The House having been uniformly of opinion, and having so often declared that opinion, that the Trade should be abolished, and yet having 'taken no step to that etfe& for the last fifteen years, he presumed would think itself called on, if from no other motive,. from respe& to its own charaaer and reputation, now to do something to effea" what had so often been declared to he its opinion. If be recolle6ted well, the period when the question of the Abolition was first agitated was the year 1791. In the com mencement of the year 1792 it was much consi dered through the Country, where it excited: warn feelings among the great bulk of the peOPIe. It was tried in that House, and the question `for the gradual Abolition was, carried. The question as to. the period was then pqt, that it be abolished. in one; yearthen in two years—both of which were re jthed ; but the proposition for abolishirg it in the third year. Was adopted. At that .time the greatest enemy to the Abolition did not wish to postpone the measure beyond the year 1800: yet new we were in th,e‘year-1806, and no step towards this just, humane, and politic,measure, as the House: declared it, had been adopted. In this situation, had not the Country and the civilized World to reproach'them with their contlud, in allowing matters come to a situation 'much more remote than even the enemies of the Aboli tion had calculated on'? Denmark had fixed on that year as the period when .th e y sh ou ld abolish the Trade ; and they had been made the subje& of ridi cule among us for the great distance to; which they had postponed it. How far they had given cause for such ridicule on our: part he should not say they had already abolished the Trade, at least among their own subjects ;: a n d th e y h a d shewn, if they could not among , others, they could at least prevent the commission of crimes and infaMy among them selves. He had at one time hoped that a Bill for the total Abolition of the Slave Trade might have passed through both Houses of Parliament, and have received the Royal Assent this Session. A number of circumstances, however, and particularly the Bill for abolishing the Trade as -to Foreign Islands, during the discussions on which it was 'deemed im s . proper to.introduce any measure of the kind, had, to the 'entire convietion of his Hon,. Friend (Mr. Wilberforce), rendered any such expectation highly improbable. It might indeed pass this House ; but if introduced into the House of Lords at such a pe riod of the Session, they would have—not a pre tence, but a fair reason for saying they could not carry it through. What alternative then remained, but .either to pass by in total silence a measure, which for the last seventeen or eighteen years had every year occupied the attention of the House,. or to adopt the -plan he now proposed—to pledge the House to the Abolition of the Trade ; not at a given period, but at the same time at an early pe riod ? For this purpose his proposition should be to leave two things open—the mode and the time.. He should however state, that for his own part, after having considered the subje& for the last eighteen years with every possible attention, he could con ceive no paa&ical mode of effe&ing the Abolition . but by a dire& Law. As to the time, in the same way as had happened in the year t7g?, there might be, many opinions on this subject. Some might think the Ist of January next the proper period— others, one More remote. To all perseas_ of this description be left the period of time at which the Abolition should take place open—but declaring, at the same' time, that it was impossible that any thing could 'shake him in the opinion of the necessity of an immediate Abolition. He had heard a great deal of noise, made as if the Trade had been already knocked up by Bills formerly - passed in that House; yet these very measures were afterwards applauded as being the greatest benefits to the Trade, by the persons who had-formerly so loudly declaimed against them. He had also lately been given to cinder= stand, that the Trade was now completely annihi lated by the passing the Adt for preventing the Fo reign Trade. All he asked was, that the Dealers would set their names, tot his fad, and decline the Trade. He was afraid though the A& last passed had done a great deal, it had only effe&ed the one-half of the objea, and had left a germ from which the whole might again spring up. The ruin of the West In dies, too, was alledged by some as the necessary consequence of the abolition. On - this point he begged to refer them to the Speech of the same Right Hon... Gentleman to whom he had already al luded (Mr. Burke), at least to some thing in print which gave an idea, though a 'very faint one, of his most eloquent Speech on this subje&`-t; but which to have heard, eloquent, argumentative and con vincing as it was;.--unanswered and unanswerable, must have carried conviction tb every breast ; that it was impossible to say that the interests of the West Indies could be hi any degree dialed ; if the Slave Trade were abolished, experience sheaved that the contrary would be the fat. In America the increase of ,the Blacks fully equalled that of the Whites, and had doubled within the last nineteen or twenty years. This h e s h ou ld not say was a' damning but a blessed proof of the fallacy of such 'assertions., There was every ground to 'hope that the increase would equal every thing which, could be desired, and would lead to such a gradual and prudent emancipation as would uitimately place the West Indies on the very surest and best foundation. • hoped that in such'a case'as this the memory of the Right Hon. Gentleman' lately deceased (Mr. Pitt), so often quoted, would: not be forgotten by his friends, who would show an equal regard to his opinions on this 'subject as on others, _and would thereby evince that it was not merely in opposition to thoSe who now filled his situation, that his senti ments were so often referred to. The different pro ceedings held in the course of the Motions for the Abolition of the Slave Trade were then read, and Mr. Fox concluded by moving a Resolution, That the House, conceiving the African Slave Trade'to be contrary to justice, humanity, and sound policy, . will, as early as possible, take such effeetual, mea sures for its abolition as may seem to them to be most proper. - Sir RALPH MILBANIt had been uniformly of Opinion that the Slave Trade was a•ruinous and de struaive traffic, that it was contrary.to every prin ciple of sound policy, justice and humanity, as had been stated by the Honourable Secretary in a much more able manner than he could do. He was happy to say that the majority of his constituents concurred with him in these sentiments. He was persuaded that the cultivation of the Colonies could be very well carried on without any fresh importation of Slaves, and concluded, by seconding the Motion. Genend TARLETONexpressed his surprize that this measure should be proposed at this time, after the question had been agitated for these seventeen or eighteen years, and still negatived. He adverted to the circumstances under which this measure had been first brought before the House. It was in time of peace and. - prosperity,, and it was certainly very extraordinary that after having, been lost then it should be brought forward ,now when we were at war, and when our. Commerce was so much cramped. £he Right. lion. Secretary had com mended the pers6erance of the Hon. Gentleman on the same bench With him (Mr. Wilberforce) on this topic. That ‘Hon. Gentleman had certainly been eloquent upon. it, and so 'persevering that upon 3.o4iitevcr subje he spoke he started as if he had seen a ghost, and I.ltroduced the Slave Trade. As to tl.e. allusion to the opinions expressed upon the alterations in the Slave 'aide, he was sure that the TeophAof Liverpool, and those who were against the Abolition, had too much sense to confound 1! boll tion with Alterations. He then adverted to the ef . feel the Abolition of the Trade would have upon Liverpool., This town had risen from a mere fishing hamlet to be the second in the Kingdom', principally by means of the Slave Trade. Its prosperity had been coeval with its engagement in that Trade. The Ministry had already dealt very hardly with the Li . verpool Merchants in passing the Restriktion Bill upon this point, and paralyzed their exertions. Bat if the Slave Trade were abolished, it would go near to ruin. the town; That town paid near three mil lions sterling into the Exchequer annually. It af forded more Seamen for the Navy than any two cities in the kingdom, except London : all this would be lost by the Abolition. His Constituents in case of Abolition,.- must have Compensation, and a large one, as the Ships employed for the Slave Trade were so constructed as . n6t to be fit for any thing else.— Taxes must be . paid durin g the War, an d if t h e Mercantile I n t erest should be thus reduced, they would fall on the Landed Interest, so that you must have a defalcation of revenue or an ignominious Peace. The Trade had been carried on from the reign of Queen Elizabeth, under the sandion of Parliament, and its Abolition would occasion much public as well as private distress. Mr. FRANCIS observed, that. certainly the Con ' stituents of the Hon. General had a right to petition for compensation if they pleased---but, at the same time, he Would not be very Willing to give compen sation for the loss of a trade Which was declared to be contrary to humanity, justice, and sound policy. He had always supported the principle of Abolition, and every Plan that tended to that object, from whatever quarter it came. But he had some doubts as to the efficacy' of such a Resolution as the pre sent, when he considered that the Resolution of 1702, which was much more specific, had not been a&ed upon. He thought that it would be of no use unless followed up immediately by a Bill for the Abolition. He contended that it was not too late for this, as. the subjeft bad been already so much dis cussed. Without this the Resolution would have lit tle crap effekt. LOrd CAST LEREAGH would not detain the House long, but contended that it would have been better to have proposed a distinkt measure, rather than ,such a vague, general; and unintelligible Re solution as the present. He admitted that the na ture of the trade was bad ; but it was an evil that could not be remedied, at least not - by the mode of an immediate abolition. But, although he totally disagreed with the Mover of the Resolution in point of policy, yet he might concur in the Resolution, if one word were struck out of it; so that this was doing nothing. It was,. besides, indecorous to send a Resolution of this sort. to the House of Peers, as they must decide upon it without having an opportu nity ofmaking those inquiries which they might think necessary in order to give a prudent opinion on such. a question. When he came to the consideration of this subject, he certainly did so with a great many advani tage€, on account of the light which bad been pre.. viously thrown upon it. He had studied it thorough ly, and would, perhaps, at first have been induced to concur in the Abolition. But, however, he had, upon a mature examination, been convinced that the immediate and dire& abolition was improper.—. On this point; "and on this point only, he had differ ed from a Right Hon. Friend of his, now no more, and as he had differed with him while he was alive it was too much to expeft that he should adopt his opinions on this head. The-Slave Trade was an evil that could not at present be separated from. human nature. He understood that the Hon. Gentleman on the bench near him (Mr..ilberforce) intended to move that an address shout a be presented to his Ma jesty to negotiate with other Powers for the abolition of this traffic. He thought that from what was known of the policy of France, Spain, and Portugal, it could - never be expeded that they would concur. The per son at the head of the French Government would turn such a proposal into ridicule. If we gave up the trade? others would take it up, and the consequence would be the loss of our Colonies and a serious blow to our National and Naval interests. , But he.thought that We ought to adopt on this point the same policy that we often adopted at home, and that was to impose duties upon the Importation of Slaves till they gras dually amounted to a , prohibition. Nothing could be done unless the Colonists were induced to concur in any measure that alight be adopted to lead to the ultimate abolition of this traffic. He expressed again his disapprobation of this Resolution, on the grounds of being so vague an e: The SOLICITOR GENERAL would have pre ferred a distin& Bill for the immediate Abolition of the Slave Trade ; but, however, as from circum stances that could not be brought forward, he would support the Resolution, which, he contended, was perfe&ly plain and intelligible. The circumstance which, in his opinion, disgraced the conduit of the House on this point was, that with all the evidence of, rapine, robbery, and murder which accompanied this trade, on their Table, they still . sOffereci the trafficto exist. But even if the Trade could he proved to be. of great advantage to this Country, he would ask any Gentleman whether the debts of Eng. land were to be paid with the blood of Africa ? General GASCOYNE opposed the Resolution, on the grounds that it was proposed at a very improper. period, when our sources of revenue ought rather to be encouraged than depressed. He expressed some doubts as to the right of this Country to legislate on this subjeet for the Colonies. He insisted that the Slave Trade was a thing that could not be separated" from the lot of a man, and that it had been encou raged by the most pious and wisest Legislators, and was even sanctioned by religion. To prove this he read a passage from the Book of Leveticns, where the Israelites are direCted to make bondrnen of those whose country they were .to possess. He had the authority of Moses on this subjed. He likewise ad-. verted to the effea of the trade on the prosperity of - Liverpool, in much the same terms as General Tar 7 leton. Mr. IVILIi,ERFORCE adverted to the manner in which the Hon. General had introduced the seri ouS subject of religion, but what he had said on this head deserved no answer. If the Ho n . G enera l h a d really thought tha t suc h a traffic as this was sanc tioned by our reliaion, he would have pitied bis ig norance, and enZeavoured to set him right.' He would have proved to him, that its principles were totally adverse to it in whateVer way it could be viewed ; that mildness and humanity were the doe. trine:.: which it inculcated ; and that it estaWished