The Sun. — London, England, 1817-02-27 00:00:00

likely to prove most mischievous and impolitic. He confessed Ise was much surprised that the Noble Lord '& ,, uld have brought this motion forward as ii mistier of course; that he had not thought proper to say one word on the subject of a ase-ssure which went to. deprive the Peolde of l !Idaoil of. trial by Jury, and of their hest rights oolifre the Constitution. He WdS SIS willing, in extr,iortlieary times. to strengthen the hands of Government, as any Mall colds' be; but he askf s sif any case i s been made our, on , the preseist occasion, to warrant the call which had been made on Parliament by his Majesty's Ministers. In p! ei-siing to comment on the re port of the C!,,ms•isietee, he took occasion to ex press surprise that a Right Hone Friend. of his (Mr. Poosoisty), who had acted in it, and was a' party, to the Report, should have the nght it safe to sit its the saute ebember With the Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh), after the : experience he had had of that Noble Lord's conduct, who, it would be remembered, had called on his Right Hon. Friend to agree to a' motion which Ise had sob- Mitted to the trouse, and which he stated wool] not pledge the Moose to a war, thought et that time he had the declaration of war in his poCket, which had already been subscribed to by, the Am bassador from this Dike of Welling ton, lie dolhpared the prociedings now in pro gress wish those of 1;94 sod 1795. Then it was said a traitorous conspiracy existed in the emintry, and wha ,i essas the re s ult ? Why, w h en the pardi s to this tratorous conspiracy were brought to when .the question was tried on the evidence given by the witnesses of the Goserontent„ be fota: Judges intimately connected with the then Adtninistratiou, n the proceedings were' marked, by a display of rise greatest professional ability, and when the Attorney-Gvneral (the preseut Lord Chatter Hot ) bad made a seven hours' speech against the. isectiseil, : the , result Wilt, the Jury had declared, to the nation that the parties put on their Ilial were not guilty of trea son. The Rei;orrs of Committers did not always turn out to he such as m ig h t. to, be implicitly be lieved. Ths re sets , for iostatice, a Report made by a Committee in 1312; of wlsicie9 10ths of the allegations it contained were discovered to be false, when it ‘Vas aslenipted to prove them on. .oath, 11e could wish to ask his Right lion, Friend if any witnesses had heel examined. Ile had heard, but of course he could not depend' upon the information, that hot rthe witness had been examin et., and that one was the Lewd Advocate of Scotland, :vim bad given in a paper, on which, however, he did not wish the Commit tee to rely. He then sliewed.tehat had been ahe :character of evidence formetly given before Committees : its one inst mice of forty persons ac .eased of being Luddites, ten .hash turned out tip he, militiamen in the pay of Govermiteot. These toys),. it appeared, hatipronosed to burst the poor liouses, and when their Collipaoi its remnilStraied ,with them on the cruelty of doing this,,thdran sWer had been, that they would do any !Wog for the sake of mischief. Much of, the evidence given be• fore the late Committee might be of the nature of that to which he had referred. It was said, the most blasphemous productions bad hero circulated among the people. No man could rvprobatesuch productions more than. be did, but he would ask, when these appeared where were the Attorney-General and Sulicitor•Gruer3l, and where the law that the publication of them Lad not been punished i There was no, case in which ()Headers could he more easily brought to justice than is that of blasphemy.— But if we had ,an -Attortley.Generill vitt) would nor, or who was afraid to do Isis slaty, were the whole of the people for this to be deprived of their liberty ? tie attributed much .ot the-dis content in the country to the' distress which pre vailed, and the distress to the Pitt' system, of which so much hatiebeen said. He ridiculed that part of the Report which stated a rising by night to haVe been contemplation, and he wished to kisow by what means the soldiers were to he sur prised, and the Barracks, distant toi they were from: each other, to be tired at the same time. Was it, lie would ask, to lie believed, th a t mess could grow mu of the ground (as, in the story of antiquity, it was said they did, from Cadmus' teeth), ,to accomplish all this ? No set of men cupid have made such ass attempt witho u t being detected by the constables, sleepy as they were. it might be true, that: some infuriated, drunk, and liturgic persons, had discussed such projects in ass ale-house. He dared to say the Committee had plenty of evidence of.such conversations, hot for this to (kepi ive the whole people of their eon! stitutioual 'rights, was most unjust. It was then said ill the [(ATM' S, that 'these persons intended to : seize the artillery and secure or destroy the bridges. These things were to be done, and the Bank was to be taken by these terrible conspi= rators,, who', fromony thing that had yet trans pired, did not appear to have exceeded six persons, and whose stock of ammuoition was Catituined in art Old stockiug. Stich , banalities could not be cont,einpkted with gravity ; such trash, lie was Of opiuion, proved the whole , report onsvotthy of serioes attention. .The story of the pikes said to have been ordered anti paid tor, he believed to have some truth in it, but he believed them to have been intended for purposes very different from those contemplated by the Committee. 'l hiss pert of tl.e Report'reminded him of what had occurred 179.1, when ei4lit tail.srs and one pike were discovered in fooley-street in the 110. rough, and he also remembeeed the words of a Magistrate CM short occasion, who had said, no food t»other had., ever looked :,with mOre joy on her only child,' than the friends of- Govern. moon bad felt on discovering this pike." The pro jects of the conspirators were ooly calculated to invoke contempt. It was Worth while so Conti; svh s at were, she fonds lay which thesemognifis c 0.4 deoigos were , sopported. In 1791; their linloant Wets 91. 16s. Thee were lately discovered ttP nittoSint to 101. being greater by tour than they were twenty years ago. lie sttpposed. their military ears' to hav e b ee n captured, eostl, perhaps, it had been con' aired into a (11.64, tie thosight shame at tacitid to, those wlso could bring forwent such a piot, and expect Parliameut to act upon it. Itepoet sidled"; that 'few, it auy, of the higher orders, suid noise of middling classes, vete conoected with the designs lately discovered to have bacts formed, lie considered this to be a gross libel ott . thelligirer orders, and he 4(4'h...1114 Noble Lott! to alit . .v 144,,t one Nohkolas' or one Gentleman was eoeuected with them. 11e would a>l<'ii t,nt could he 'named ? and if tlds wete nor done, he, must coneholo the Report assetted tt ~doworight falsehood. Ile lead a right to 11SSIIIIIC no Nobleman or "Gentletrfan could be named, among those who favoured the designs of the con spirators, as his Right Hon. Friend ow di former night had stated this to iie the fact. He bad their a right to ceositre•this part of the Report, for lie hoped there would be • in that House my situfflieg about a coition', as there had been elsewhere; no attempt to give it a meaning different trout that which common seose wrseld .attach to it. Streit its it appeared to him, he pronounced it to be tra'sh,' and wholly unworthy of, their attention. The Brit now before the House he considered! it to he his ddAy most- strenuously to oppose. When this should have passed. into a law, be or any other Member, however innocent, might be de prived of their liberty at the pleasure of Mink - term, as the'Noble Lord had said they were accountable both to God and man for the consequences which might follow their endeavours to check the pro fusion of Government, and protect the liberties tat the people ; lie ,hould be reld,ctant to give th e powers non. called for to Hoy Minister, but he was particul,rly unwilling to give them to one who haviog been already entrusted with them, rliniihidly 'Marlowd his hands in the blood of his country, and who had been screened from the consequences by a 13111 f 4 Indemnity. Lord CAcTL, EAGII spoke to order. lie felt it his duty, to cull upon the flon. Member to state which individual member of the present Govern ment had criminally inibraed his hawks in the 6100 d of' his country ? 11i. BENNETT said, he charged the members of Iris Majesty's Government, in their official short tions, with having before called for the very same powers whiCh they now required, and with having abused the trust then reposed in than, and after wards covered their tniscooduct with a Bill of,ln det»nity. Lord CAsTLEaRAott,-1 have then to say, that if it has been asserted that I ever cr iminally im brued my panels in the blood 'of ray country, the Honourable Member has stated that which is a . falsehood. Lord Sltt,Totst rose to order, Ile anxiously hoped the business between the honourable Gen:. leman and the Noble Lgi'd would go no f a rth er . lle did not take upon himself to state what ought ,n .he done, but he could not,lielp recalling to the vc o n te ti on o f the House what bad list fallen 'clim the Ilonoorable (lentleman. lie (NIE. Ben tett) had then stated, rot thou the Noble Lord tad criminally itubrned Iris hauls.bt. the blood of tis country, hut that Ministe,rs had cicted critud tally under the, law for suspending , the habeas Corpus Act, and bad rate' wards obtained a bill of indemnity.. Lord CssTr.v.tteAGiu Wished to know the natu t e of. the imputed criminality. If ae.find been guilty of a crime of the nature of that ascribed las he bad understood) to him, it was that ,whi. h 110 Bid of Indenkni , y could! cover. He threretore rcptal. eel, if such conduct had been imputed to him, the 110 n. N ember had stated a falsehood. Mr. Yotlxa submitted it was open for the lion. 9entleman-to explain the words he had used. At . present it appeared he had brought is criminal ehargeagainst the Noble Lord. It must be un derstood there was a wide difference between - 4i charge of ct intinality; and a charge of having done that which was merely illegal, An Act that was illegal ;night be justified, and a Bill of Indemni ty given its soon as it 'was ip,keti. It was very different where Criminality was charged. If the Hon. Gentleman, having asserted this, meant to keep to his words, he , ought to name a day on which he would bring the Subject under the con= s Idt:ration of the !louse, mid endeavour to make the charge . out. It', however, he only meant to say, the Noble Lord, as a Meniber of the G o . veroment, had beiot a party to measures which made it necessary that,a Bill of Indemnity should subsequently be called for, in that ease lit should hope that the lauguvr4e which had been used might be passed over, as having . Unintentionally fallen from hint in the heat of &Ore. Alr, W. WYNNE, however much he might' res fret that the charge should have been made at all, it he had heard hint correctly, he-had not directed it personally against the Noble Lord, brit against his Majesty's Ministas—(Cries of " No, no.") -s-- He (Mr. Wynne) might have misunderstood his Hon. Friend, but the impression made upitn his mind was, that he objected to trust the -power now called for in the hands. of Ministers, who had already imbrued their hands in the blond their country. It sometimes occurred, that a lons debate took place on language wool by an lion. Member, before it was ascertained what the expressions called in question really were. If' he recollected what had been said by'the froth Gen tleman, bli charge Was directed iit uitm the Cci vernMetit, for having done that which made 'a Bill of Indemnity necessary, To *such a charge be begged that it might be understood he %%113 irOt i r ill the slightest d egree di s p ose d- to become a party ; but still he must say !reconsidered such language turn to he disorderly, nor such as Ought to have subjected hint to interruption from file Noble Lord. fle,.lorwever, begged- orgrriu to say he conld not sunlit the justice of the charge, eith er against .the y individual or the Mr. BRAND said , it certainly did strike him thot the Honourable' Gentleman had used the word criminally. Whether the application of such language to the Noble Lord or to the 6 , ,ventment cold(' or could hOt be justified, he would not now stop to inquire ;' but at all events it heti eppeared : to hint r hat the word was not applicable to that with which the llouomalde Gendlemanhad con nected It. Ile did not thudk it conic( '6e used -to mark that which he fiteatit, to express: lit intended to - ,charge the Noble LOrd and the Gti vernttOnt with was 'clearly this, that they bad done that 'ruder the laW for the suspension of the I,ittbeas'Coritus Act, for which it was necessary !hat a Bill of luderuoity shoddhl be hi ii,sht in to screen them front tlre consequence, Now, saying this, he could riot mean to iiCelisp' them of any Icing oititin4l, as that worthd not he ediMprehendS ed in the Act of Indemnity, which wily protected :hem horn actions might otherwise be b)On,glit ag n aitest them, on aCeoOilt i f thihg% (loot while the liabeas•Corptis Act was suspended . , The SPEAKER apprehe t plvd the point of order depended on this ipiestion : Did the 1190. Member mean to charge his Majesty's Ministers in the aggregate with imbruing their bands in the blond of their country, or with other acts of criminality, 0r did he make this charge agaiust one individnal of the Government ? If the charge was made against the Ministers in thy aggregate, there was no breach of order ; but if it was against one individual, then there was a direct departure from those rides wiiich governed the debates in that !.louse. 'The Him. Member would perhaps not.v be good enough in satisfy the Ilonse in which sense his wolf's were to be taken. Mr. lb NNETT lose, in order to CoMply With the wish jil.l expressed by the Chair. Thus called upon, he had no hesitation in saying—but he begged to. assure the !louse he wonld be the last man alive to retract any thing he might have said from any regard for the consequences which might ensue; so far as they could ;affect himself,—he had, how-- ever, no hesitation in saying theNharges in ques-! firm were meant generally, and were not intended to be confined to one inditieie,al. IVben lie had of a Minister imbruing his hands. in the blood of Dis Comm y, he had not meant to speak of the t%vo hands belonging, to any individual' Member of the Government, but he spoke at all that Administration in whose time' those scene, had passed in Ireland, which he should ever sin- Terely lament, and limier which this very law was , called ink. If he "had known that to use the word illegal would have been more correct' titan to use' the word which been•so p,titicularly noticed,- lie should have been glad ,to adopt it. It bad been remarked t h e word " criminial`" did not apply In any thing that could be covered by a bill of in demaity, a m t as it was with reference to this that he had spoken, it'followed that " criminal." could not be the .eXpression which he wished to wse.— Instead of ,saying criminally," it would have' beet) better that he should have said illegal; Ther charge was certainly meant to be general. Loid CAkTLEREAGII, witch be interrupted the !1011. Member, had thought the charge which he !link-nada was directed personally against him Now that lie had heard the limiAientleman say he meant it generally against the Government of which lie teas a Member, he had no cause to•com.. plain. He was satisfied the Hon. Nleniner hard not retracted sil t y thing that us a mail of himmtr he head asserted and was bound to maintain. He (Lord Castlereagh) had no right pet sonally to ob ject • to any charge. which the lion. Gentleman might think proper to bring against that Adini nistration, but he had no hesitation' in'saying - ihe charge of cruelty if preferred-against it was false. „Doing, this, however, he meant no offence to thou lion. bent!. man, and he trusted the course lie was faking Will not disorderly. TheHonourable-Gen tleman, he thonglit, 'could 'irrit Complain .o n th e presciv oceasion,as describing the-charge iwquesa tion to be talse be did not deal more Inns:lily with that, than he (Mr: W:tiett) had dealt with the Report of the Committee, which laser ,ssin ci of so many of, the 11m). t letwin's iends, who indeed were 'partici. to it. Mr. Bea N err had not charged i‘linisters with crnelty in their arrests tinder the lay: fin. the NU9- spellmioll of the liabeat: Curititi Act, but he h a d complained (if die cruelties which had occur re d i n the Castle-yard at Dublin, and Under the eyes of some Members of the Government. Lord CATLEREAUTI again spoke to order, The [lon. Gentleman was again speaking to facts al leged to have occurred in Ireland. if he IWeIT dis posed to make these the subject of discussi on on any future day, h e (L or d C.) should be really to meet and to answer the accusation now insinuated ; butt he would appeal to the House., and to the feelings of the non. Gentleman himself, if th e peace oldie country ought thus to,be trifled with, and if it was right t h at the'eliaraeters of publie teen should thus be assailed by insinuations Mixed up with otber 'matte'. Mr. BENNETT had only taken the liberty to state what were the facts to which lie load before alluded, in Order to set hiMsell right 'with the House. Ile hoped he should, be excused for what had occurred he had felt warm, and hail spokei i as he felt, but.,wonid now say no inure on the sub ject. lle concluded by again expressing his dis• approbation of the Bill. Mr. F. Law's was anxious to state the grounds on. which be shout[; give his vote on the present. occasion. lie could .say with much, sincerity, that he had not brought himself to the decision be, had come to but with much reluctance. He should vote for the suspension of the.-,Habeas Corpus Act. _ He considered the Habeas Corpus Act to be the great bulwark of the Cut st itution, and the consummation -of our liberties. The suspension of it was great evil ; bat he wel- Coined this to avert a greater, ,as, if the measu re now in ques t i o n Were not reiort e d to; he believed our liberties would be iu g rea t peril and jeopm dy. fie had the most perfect confidence .in the inte grity and wisdbom Of the CoMmittec, and saw no reason for calling itiquestiOn their Report,whiCh ; wherteVer.he walked imt.;, was abundantly -cdtro, horated by the hand-hulk that, met his eye imeyery direction, and other poblications of the most blaspheutous . and• disgusting' nature. These were circulated, not only in Lon,loh, but in the most distant parts, and at such prices ; that thry got into the hands of the meanest until poorest persons in the country.- lie could not but. Cansider what was now seen tt be' the' pontintuttion of the utis chief which was abroad in 1794 and 1795, which had , lain by for a - time, rind bald ii ow, been brciught torward with the same avowed objects and the slime ultimate designs, to- take advantage of the present distressed state of the country. He . wits aware that Ihe'S r rispensiou at the- Habeas Corpus Act had, in aA former eases, been jiwifivd by 'open rebellion Or by tineign War. He, how-• ever, was slue, that our history would nut thew, that alime of -war was that at which internal se dition -was .most to apprehended;• in' this con , try. He rather- inelined to' the belief', that the direct: reVerse was the acknowledged fact • The distress of the country was that on which delierate men were'mow attempting to :work,-, tood l.e therefore c9nsitered the danger to , be only limired by the linitts of the distress. That distress Avail greatvr• than had ever been known iu this country, and the danger he considered to be nothin g short of „ t h -it it was forineriV. 11 ” ! atirt'fit ()tweet itself isgaiost 'the tiatiorotis ut> o Jacobites. The doe) titles of t he Spence/c, heC menaced all property ii) the cOeutiY , it ed it was ecesiary at a time lik_r dtel t , meent, and punish as an o ff e nce against to% It would not be 6.tfe to l eave them t° dOwn hy publications of a different cliarotter' 't•IIS pelts olthe Habtnis Corpus Act P be m" sort to' svhich the Cottsriitition !night look for sup port on e,xtraordiaitry ticcasiala, could have 'wished it had been tried tom',':_ evil by the existio , laws before, but it ‘ v - late to trust to Oat experiment now. Yotitta said, the rill bad not ) 11 '. read. This Wits the first tim e a Bill sot ii : from the Lords had been debate d bf tt within lii9 recolleci might be proper to read it note. Mr. SNIYTII (of Cambri d g e) (lid t. n °-11 : danger which called for a la w like that did ot.. the consideration of the House. fie that we had reason to fear the active few this country be allowed to triumph overtlrif : French Revolution was not occomp the first outset by the un:00 of the few "a' t many, but by .the union of the many Iv° Reform. It was imPortant resneallgt the present moment, as that Itevi.tlatiooli been accelerated by the want of p.irt of the then French Government, 1:111 which it was now prop os ed to COINS( I°lit sisters of this Country. It was nut of an Hab e as Corpus Suspension Act+ the Revolution took place, but rather h'n° l , fi t t 1)1 such a :guard for the rights of the itt:/'}i' • tit'at w hick it was now proposed to lia"col,4o '.nlinitted that alarming efforts had hee n ii ,loo excite the people to acts of disloyaltYt, tit) think the Spenceat k r principles ought "'id) ilhlt contempt Which some eatktokot thought the ouly not i ct that ought i° '1 1, 40 them. Bat. if t h ere we re d a ng er tr i g men contrived Id evade the esissing iorha't wi be altered to (leftist their efforts the onoffentling mass of the people lie .1 ° , 11 0 10: (lie guilty designs Of a few. Ile °bi g : ( ipld BM') as it was at variairce with thos e P riu viti ot) our Const it 'rim), which taught us to rO , '1 jealous . eye on every actplisi:ion l'`'weed t t e le v , e ,4 xe r cutive ; ism' it was direct tlisj t 1 IY-tliVsvi Priociple- io our ,litV which hel d. 'l ' l 3l°l 4 (1"1 many. gully should escaPe t i c 0 1 , :11)i,nion s lr t e lci i i nt a io ni ce e t i t , t sil s re ho o t s i l l g d At t r. u n er t o t4 f s ( t ) v zi ii r, s ( a ) D ea n s e i :_ i t ts t o t i.: : l l°lo : il ; eb i be i: l i si i,c l : ° :r : Ei ' ; : t . Ilk"ncl.t.) had 'wondered how his !Lig ht . 1 00" ventury I. a.itvi ,Itle Fi ieoti (\I r. Ponsimby) co uld isg l the s:sine chamber With the Nubic l t Castlereagh). If t I),s w e a s any 0 14 1 fr 1 1 , of t: 4 , added to tb c imourtance of the a o fots u ° Crtmtnittee, al the ioference tO tifj , iv i a c'tc'', Iv" , (bat the wCight of .ev.itlnc e great, that conid oe,,r.the 04011, of „It: to cone it' tt ith the N.ble he lied reas'oo to he. st,je,itoils- hl ` * 9litt'e ' 6 "") ,vintlica!ed the Rcport of th e and contelid e d, and..visionai y thei r pv!ticc!fii, ".C/C with a Jealous e y e , as, it; them tlifF t ' os p „ 1 1: set to deal with, the Howie havin4, ago as in the ye.lr dvelare d 164 c 141- t ). .e lugs forrished grounds to' v ',..il.intlY ar t r etO r ld `le , igPs• absard a' e iniportant, from t h e rircitois"-;„,„1. efog always most palatable 10 l b ' : t doer ibed their numbers to be very principles were a d o pt e d by mitilVe l° l lls or: tile count ty, veliio) did 11 `,' 1 '; ci' llit' 4 , 1° : 8i1 r SOenerani. phu t a dopto , , ( ine l inbers of these associations 14 (I ` . l ‘ l l' is ! I 1 " leatiWe .nine he considered of the most ,1 111ger 0 "' Lt bile it " gaged-in the cease all that Ivt'iotttit,t; clan - Icier of the iodivicinals to %violin 01'11 , I ;1118ft:tell, it also'brought in aid tlegood which mi g ht beloogt 0 them, 31 ' 01 wbo might repent, al i t ' w i s h to Practices which bc „ c „ reo f .' l l ( by a dread o f b rea ki ng t hi s oath, li ellie",) to tbi paths of hoties:.y 10Y'd. t . ., l at tc ; ( c ) l i ctiesi he further observed, kept b'' s ' f i d l itrf ol , tp• it!"34e'n'hO belouged to thein,'hut 4'0.1 1 , )(4 , evidently fur the ptirPue• istter,', filet); to wreak their vengeance t Over the y should possess the pokra 118, 4 flesigns like those which blot b e i . °9 1 ,,,, A ce , Si10111(1 iItIVC been formed in' a time °' „If 11 1 ' 1 „ 1 4 . sislied an additional reason in favou r ', o l F tel' 4 , , ; 111 g of this Act, a s i t s h e oeil dhe the cons piral..ol s in their otvo s t reogt ow?:sf) di '!" e% cr. No mats could.deny a treastmable naiiire had b e e" i c u i l t ncit.tPl ii °l:it ' adloitted, thOligh t e , 4 1 ,1 exist as to the extent of tile I d,ll, i t th e o p ' e' 31.- Parliattient to protect the loyal ag s " ) ,lelP',A l cliira4tions of the wieked. L1°11(0,11'1" o " 1 .1 r t „tit' had guggesteil :plan :lit'? arto'l"g, ( k , eep down the disaffected; but this- ht.iof r, as it tended to produce a civil 'c lr i ; Lt Opott mitotic. reiledtion, convince d t '' ) , C0 1111 shori of the measure now propu se ;',..:,,,itd e r t fal I ' l ' 4ll 3' tranquillize the ott“ try l schemes t o li ve lootioies:ed, and ~„ co. ° the doctrines of the uin,,fti•c:'etl tt°s3 it u` t j l "dr y y f I't 'Heil into action_ r ine per ,,, 0 , ow co, jil t sat tlicrrt'ore so •rfal Hl cloy a of I. :ti .s .e i : j. r o o : t il if i s s s i ttl;:l s :: e i:e i rci r li s: l l l o ; ‘)l o 'ai r s i i t s g ' t :' ( "tus , except triter] tio4 conn l /1 vv ' j f - 't t /14 th e tlimeer 111 a revotto "on. I 1 ' vs- I. tio i " t i t o ct such Peril' existed Alai the -itspetpl,`),,, t iir " t l lakv'ir place Il e would reel" sett instance uf iinv of 14 v (1° rto o e 11 1( 1 ,$ 110 : , tispeusion tictii cwi.tol 1 _ 1 " : in the eet, sant e sc t , be t ' t o citm 'vvos their entetfl•taitted of persons in Th e m 1. th e pl - ' and Societies in the cuutitrY , atl" t the as' o ' f (we ‘llO-i:tPts(-Ivies ts'itll'ile,Sl,°:tibct).o%'lll)