The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-04-26 00:00:00

Emperiat I)artiaranit. HOUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, APRIL 22. A great number of petitions were presented, praying for the immediate abolition of colonial slavery. Lord ELLuseonoudu presented one from Mr. Eden Bowler against the second read ing of the Stamford Bribery Bill. The Marquess of SALISBURY said he had to present a peti tion against slavery in England,—he meant that slavery to which young children employed in our factories were subjected, and he would pray the good offices of the noble lord (Suffield) in aid of its abolition. He was sure that if the noble lord would bestow half the time and the valuable exertions for the abolition of this domestic slavery, which be had bestowed upon the abolition of negro slavery, it would be a most valuable aid to those. who were engaged in putting an end to the former, and tue noble lord might be quite as usefully employed. Lord SCFFIRLD said he had no objection to give any aid that he could offer for that important purpose, but it he had taken a more active part in endeavouring to put an end to negro slavery, it was because the poor negro required greater aid, and he could not forget also that the factory children had a most powerful advocate in the noble marquess. Lord MELBOURNE put off the Irish Jury Bill to Friday, as he understood it would be more convenient to the noble duke (Wellington) to attend ou that day. The Bishop of Ossoav presented petitions against the ministerial plan of church reform, from the Dean and Chapter of Cork and Kildare. STAFFORD BRIBERY BILL. The Earl of RADNOR, in movingthe second reading of this bill, said that he scarcely expected any opposition to it, because it was founded on the same principle as several bills which had of late years been introduced without objection into their lord ships' house, for the purpose of indemnifyng witnesses giving evidence of - the existence of gross bribery and corruption in certain boroughs. He admitted that the present measure was not accompanied, like those to which he had just referred, by a proposition of disfranchisement; but he thought that their lordships ought not on that account to reject it. The bill was founded on the notoriety of gross and abominable bribery exist ing in Stafford. He understood several of their lordships felt objections to the wording of particular parts of the bill; but that was matter for consideration in committee, and ought not to be any obstacle to the second reading. As far as he was concerned, he should offer no opposition to any amendment which did not interfere with the efficiency of the measure: The noble earl then moved the second reading of the bill. Lord \VYNFORD said that, whenever corruption was clearly proved against a considerable portion of the inhabitants of any place, he should be ready to concur in the proposition to dis franchise them and transfer the elective franchise to other per- VMS more likely to exercise it properly. He objected to this bill, because it was not like former bills of a similar nature founded on an inquiry previously instituted by the House of Commons. They were - asked by the bill to declare that the borough of Stafford was grossly corrupt. He concluded by pioving, that the second reading of the bill be postponed, and proposing an amendment to the effect just mentioned. • the LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with the noble baron who preceded him that the present was a peculiar case. lie there lire thought that their lordships were bound to afford every ficiiity consistent with the law of Varliament to the successful a,ccoinplishment of this investigation. He thought that the course proposed by the noble baron was well worthy the con sideration of the house. To satisfy thethselves, and to see whe ther any other and better.mode of conducting this investigation Could be devised, the best course was to adopt the proposition of the noble baron—to suspend the second reading for the pre sent, and to let this matter stand over for a day or two. In conclusion, he suggested that his noble friend should suspend his motion and his learned friend his amendment for a few days, and that they should then come down to the house iu a situation to perform their duty to the country at large, to the borough of Stafford, and to the House of Commons, which had sent up this bill to their lordships. The debate was then adjourned till Friday next. The house then adjourned. TUESDAY. The Bishop of HEREFORD presented petitions from the mi nisters,, churchwardens; and inhabitants of the parish of Greete, in the county of Salop, and of the township of Whitton, in the parish of Burford, in the same county, for the entire and im mediate extinction of slavery throughout the British dominions. The Earl of ltauNott presented petitions from several pa rishes in the city of Oxford, against the house and window tax. • Lord POLTIMORE laid on the table petitions from various places, against negro slavery. The Earl of WICK LOW presented a similar petition from a parish in the county of Antrim. CORN RETURNS. • The Earl of Rosslvn moved for a return of the quantity of grain imported from Ireland into Great Britain from the year 3.853 to Iti32; also for a similar return of grain imported from 'the North American colonies.—Ordered. The Bishop of Bangor presented a petition from the Arch deacon and Clergy of Sarum and Wells, against the Church Reform Bill.—Lord Western presented a petition from the inha bitants.of St. John's parish, Southwark, against the house and windoW duties.—The Duke of Richmond presented a petition from Crawley, in Sussex, praying the abolition of negro slavery. BEF,R ACT. The Bishop of LON DON presented a series of petitions, 24 in number, from parishes chiefly in the counties of Essex and Hells, complaining of the demoralizing effect of the beer houses. The right rev. prelate said, much as these houses were to be complained of, there was still a greater evil existing in the metropolis—he meant the gin-shops. (Hear ? hear.) It could not be doubted that great demoralization was to be traced to - this source; men were induced, by these shops being open to Them in every direction, to enter and squander away that money which ought to go to the support of their" families. (Hear.) The.effects of this demoralization were exceedingly appalling, and he thought it the bounden duty of a Christian Government to look seriously at this question, with a view of correcting the evils connected with the subject. The Government ought not to-be influenced by any fiscal regulations in their consideration of this important subject--important both to the morals and comforts of the people—and no time should be lost in bringing it forward, with a view of removing the manifold evils attached to the present system. (Hear, hear.) The right rev. prelate then laid on the table a petition from the inhabitants of Chesterfield, against negro slavery. The.Rishop of Llandaff presented a "petition from the Mem bers and friends of the Association for Promoting Rational Humanity towards the Animal Creation." The right rev. prelate said, if he were competent to the task, lie would bring in a bill to remove the evils complained of by the petitiOners; out he. hoped that some person better 'qualified than he was would undertake to do so. Lord Ellenborough presented a petition from Dumfries, against negro slavery.—The Marquess Cholmondeley presented two peti tions, praying the enforcement of a better observance of the Sab ha* iron' Thames .Ditton, and a parish in the county of Salop.— The Bishop of Chester laid on the table similar petitions from the eity of Chester, and two other places.—Lord Feversham pre sented a petition, with a similar prayer, from a parish in York shire.—Lord Suffield presented fifty, petitions, praying the total and immediate abolition of Shivery, from places in the counties of Warwick, Dorset, Cumberland, Wilts, li erts, Salop, Suffolk, Norfolk, York, Bedford, SoMerset, Lincoln, and Derby.—The Earl of Falmouth presented a petition, praying the removal of the Aisizes froth, Launceston to Truro. Adjourned at a quarter to six. HOUSE OF COMIVIONS. MONDAY, APRIL 22. The Speaker took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock. Sir Henry Parnell took the oaths and his seat, for the borough of Dundee. The House was occupied in the reception of petitions until 3 o'clock, when the Speaker left the chair. The SPEAKER resumed the chair shortly after five o'clock. Mr. C. Wool) moved for a new writ for the western division of Worcestershire, in the room of the Hon. Thomas Henry Foley, now L or d F o l ey . A new writ was ordered for Inverness, in the room of Colonel J.Haidie deceased. ' The Marquess of CIIANDOS gave notice, that on going into coniniittee of supply on Friday, he should move a.resolution, that in any reduction of taxation it was expedient that the in terests of the agricultural part of the, community. should be con sulted, • Mr. O'CoNNELL postponed his motion relative. to the pro claiming of the county of the city .of Kilkenny till Friday. In answer to a question from Sir T. Troubrid ge , Mr. P. THOMSON said that the subject of the Cinque Ports' pilots had been for sonic time under consideration ; the papers were as yet before the Lord Warden, but he hoped that it would soon be in his.power- to bring forward a measure on the subject. FOREIGN POLICY. Mr. T. ATTWOOD had a question to put to the noble lord on the subject of the foreign policy . of the country. It was well lgtown that for a series of-years it had been the object of Rus- THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. sia to get possession of Constantinople, and alarming rumours were in circulation, to the effect that Constantinople was by this time, or soon would be, in the possession of the Russians. He should be glad to hear from ministers what steps they had taken to prevent the occurrence of an event so inconsistent with the interests of Europe and the honour of this country. (Oh, oh !) Lord ALTHORP replied that he did not think it would be pro per to state what steps Government had taken. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY.-TIIE CURRENCY. Lord ALTHORI' said that he thought the motion of the hon. member for Whitehaven had better be brought forward in a sub itantative shape than as an amendment on the order of the day. He was disposed to treat the hon. gentleman's proposition with every respect, and was quite ready to give way to him. Mr. M. ATTWOOD commenced by stating that ever since he had enjoyed the honour of a seat in Parliament, he had tlsought it his duty, on every practicable occasion, to call the attention of the house to the condition of the productive middle and lower classes, and to ask for inquiry as to how far they had been or were likely to be affected by the monetary system established at the termination of the war. He knew not if he could recom mend that inquiry by arguments other than had been before urged by himself and others, but the arguments and statements formerly adduced now carried with them the testimony of time and experience, and came upon us confirmed by continued suf fering and calamity, and by a growing conviction of a mistaken policy having been adopted. In previous houses, there existed among the members a principle of surrendering their votes to the party to which they belonged, and of giving up their judgments to a considerable extent to the great political leaders of the day. This principle did not prevail at present. Members now looked less to the ties of party than to their responsibility to their con stituents. To complain of the calamities of the people was at all times disagreeable, and ministers, of whatever party, heard such complaints with reluctance. There was no stage of distress, how user great, within the last twenty years, which had not been at first denied. The hon. member for Essex was never wanting on such occasions to say that, although not a merchant, he had made inquiries among merchants, and could say that there ex isted a great deal of prosperity in the country, and if we waited a little longer we should see more. " Wait,' the hon. member would say, "till the Bank and East India questions shall have been settled, and you will see the result in increased prosperity." But that was- not all; ministers produced columns of figures from the excise,. customs, and exchequer, showing the flourish ing state of our imports and exports, and proving arithmetically that not only was it impossible that there could be any distress, but that the fact was we must be in a state of considerable pros perity. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The noble Chancellor of the Exchequer introduced his budget on the ground that it might possibly prevent this motion. He asked the house. whe ther they saw any grounds in the financial statement of the noble lord for withdrawing the present motion, at a time when it ap p_eared that taxes were no longer paid out of profits but capital? The noble lord also desired that the motion of the hon. member for London (Sir J. Key) on the assessed taxes should be post poned till after the budget, doubtless in the hope that the shop keepers of the metropolis should be satisfied with his proposition of Friday ni r ,eht. '1 he shopkeepers represented that, without bankruptcy, they were unable to pay the taxes in question.— The noble lord met this by the statement, that if those taxes were repealed the condition of the country would be but little different from their own. That answer might satisfy the coun try or not : but he asked if that were the condition of things af ter eighteen years of peace, which ought to have recruited our resources, whether it was not necessary for the representatives of the people to inquire into the cause of the calamity. The noble lord showed them a revenue of £50,000,000, but declared that the safety of the state, and the preservation of national . credit, prevented further reductions than he had of ; after which he retained only an insignificant surplus of £500,000. , The people were now paying £50,000,000 of taxes with diffi culty, with decreasing capital, with increasing want and crime ; but the time was not remote when, without difficulty or com plaint, without decreasing, but with increasing capital, with de creasing pauperism —(the noble lord seemed to doubt this, he could refer him to the statement of a right rev. prelate in corro boration of the assertion)--he repeated, with decreasing pau perism the people paid £78,000,000 of taxes. He referred to the period at the close of the late war—a war which ended in the completion of every object for the accomplishment of which it had been undertaken, and not in consequence of the poverty of the country. If he showed to the house that the country af ter eighteen years of repose broke down under the payment of £50,000,000 of taxes, having previously paid £78,000,000 with out inconvenience, did he not make out grounds for inquiring into the causes of a state of things so anomalous ? (Hear.) How stood the numbers of the people at the two periods ? He would put the year's population returns with the corresponding year's financial returns. We paid, in 1815, £78,240,000 in taxes, exclusive of the expense of collection • in 1814 the amount was £77,000,000; and in 1813, £73,000,000. Put by the side of this amount of taxation, the population in 1815 it was 18,700,000. What was the amount of the population of 1831 ? 24,000,000. Thus it appeared that the lesser number paid with ease £78,000,000 of taxes, and that the greater number could not pay, without distress, £50,000,000. He should be content, per haps, to rest his motion on this statement alone. He knew that, according to the school of certain political philosophers, increase of population was in itself a proof of increasing means of sub sistence,—that it constituted prosperity. He should not enter into any question of abstract philosophy. it had been the mis fortune of our day that we had been induced to apply abstract doctrines too much to practical affairs (hear, hear), the well being of which was made to depend on the question whether the philosophers were right or. wrong. The honourable member here entered into a statement of the amount of financial reduc tions at various periods since the peace, and said, that whenever a finance minister had proposed a reduction of taxation, it was always stated that the I.lxehequer would not be a loser to the full amount of the remission, ih consequence of the increased. stimulus given to consumption. That calculation, he admitted, was founded on. a good principle. The hon. gentleman then went into a statement of the reduction of taxes made in the last eighteen years, and of the increase of the powers of consump tion on the part of the. population during that period, as com- Tared with the increase of the population itself. His conclusion from them was, that though the population hadduring that time increased- nearly one-fourth, its power of consuming the neces saries and.comforts of life had only increased about. one-tenth. They had evidence taken before a committee of that house in 1818 on the poor-laws, as to the distress which prevailed in the agricultural districts, but nothing was then done; and it hap pened that in 1830, even in England, they had agricultural dis turbances. Special commissions were sent to put them down, 5,000 Englishmen were taken up as prisoners, 1,800 of whom were tried, and of those 700 were punished in various ways. — The hon. gentleman here referred to the evidence given before that. committee in 1828, to show the state of distress into which the agricultural population of England had been thrown in con sequence, as he contended, of the restriction of the currency in 18t9. To the want of employment, he repeated, the disturbances in Ireland were to be attributed. They were intimately con nected with the operation of the. monetary system. He could not leave the question of. the distress which overwhelmed the agricultural labouring population of England without pressing on the attention of the house the deep importance of that sub-; ject, and conjuring them to be careful, lest, in sacrificing that population, they sacrificed the bulwark of the country. To what excesses had distress driven them ! How greatly had their cha racters been altered ! They had been seen to destroy the pro• perty of their employers—those labourers whose interests used formerly to be ideuttliedwith that of their masters. He- would now advert to the state of another interest, the second in ins portauce—he meant the shipping interest. In 1832 the ship owners at the different sea-ports drew up a memorial, in which they described the dreadful condition to which they were re duced. In that memorial they pointed out the detrimental ef fects of the diminution of capital. They fondly hoped that the attention of the reformed Parliament would be fixed open their, complaints, and that when that house met some steps would be taken to improve their suffering condition. The representatives of the people were intrusted with the office of relieving the dis tresses.of the people; they would be judged of by the decision to which they came on the present question, and by it . would, they secure or forfeit the confidence of the country. The com mercial property of England was not now what it was in for mer days ; its interests were not equally well prodded for, and it was undergoing, a constant and steady depreciation.— Another proof of the baneful effects of the present monetary system, and that was the increase in the number of criminal committals. That increase would be found to have kept pace with the progress of that system, and the returns which in .1814 were confined to hundreds, amounted, after a progressive in• crease, to twenties of thousands in 1832. Were these, facts which ought to be contemplated- with apathy ? It was upon these grounds, then, he submitted to the house his proposition for inquiry. He believed, firmly believed, that our monetary system was inseparably connected with the extreme and general uistress he had Instanced, connected with it in all its branches. He believed this, because he found that every interest in the country had experienced an improvement upon a relaxation of the system, and - a corresponding depression whenever it was called into full vigour, and that distress had been steadily at taining its present extremity ever since the principles which were adopted in 1819 had been called into full operation by. subsequent measures. He hoped that the right hon. member for Tatoworth would lend his powerful aid to effect the objer:t which he bad in view, and concluded with moving "that-a select committee be appointed to inquire into the state of general dis tress and embarrassment which presses upon the various orders of the people, and how far the same has been occasioned by the operation of the present monetary system; and to consider the effect produced by that system on the agriculture, manufac tures, and commerce of the united kingdom, and on the condi tion of the industrious and productive classes." (Cheers.) Lord ALT HOR P said that he did not differ from the hon. mem ber as to the importance of the question which he had broug . ht, under the consideration of the house, nor as to its being desir able that it should be brought under their consideration,—that the lion. member should call upon the house to decide whether they were prepared to stand by the present system, (loud cheers,) on which all the contracts of the country depended, or whether, on the other hand, they were prepared to adopt a course of confiscation and robbery. (Cheers.) He thought the hon. member, entertaining the opinions whiCh he did, was per fectly right in bringing the question forward; and he (Lord Althorp) - was not sorry at least that he had given a reformed House of Commons an opportunity of coming to a decision upon it. The hon. member evidently contemplated a deprecia tion of the currency,--indeed, no part of his argument would have any common sense in it if that were not the object which I he had in view ; but he had not stated how it was to be effected. At various periods different propositions hail been brought for ward, all ultimately having this object in view; but the hon. member's proposition differed from every one of them in this respect—that it might be adopted, he said, quite -consistently with the maintenance of the public faith. (Hear, hear, hear.) He could not, in the present situation of the country, conceive any calamity greater than agreeing • to the motion of the hon. member, It was most desirable that the house should come to a decision, upon this occasion, as to the expediency of altering the standard of value, and therefore he intended to move, as au amendment, the following resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this house that any alteration in the monetary system of this country, which would have the effect of lowering the standard of value, is highly inexpedient." (Cheers.) The fate of that amendment would decide the question whether the house were determined to maintain the present standard of value. He wished members to have an opportunity of giving their votes upon that question clearly and distinctly. He had framed his amendment in that shape in order to meet the disinclination which many members felt to vote against a committee to in quire into the distresses of the people. It was absolutelyne cessary.for him, before he proceeded to consider the propriety of appointing such a committee, as he valued his own character, as he valued the preservation of public faith and the prosperity of the country, to call upon the house to decide, "aye" or "no," upon the question. The hon. member had, throughout the whole of his speech, announced that his object was to effect an alteration in the value of money, and believing, as he (Lord Althorp) did, that such a proceeding would be ruinous to the country, he would offer it every possible opposition. Ho con cluded with moving his amendment. (Cheers.) Mr. GROTE rose to second the amendment, and said that, in dependently of the proposed alteration with respect to the cur rency, no practical advantage could result from the inquiry which the hon. member proposed should take place into the state of the country. If he might venture to speak lightly on so grave a question, he would say that a committee which could presume to pronounce au opinion on a. question of such magni tude upon such evidence as would be brought before them, would resemble the rash travellers, who, after running hastily through the 'United States of America, gossipping.with persons in stage coaches, and dining at a table d'hote, and cross-examining the waiters and chambermaids, came home, wrote a book, and dog , inatized with all the authority of high witnesses upon the Ame rican national character. (Hear.) An, inquiry into the state . of the country was only the stalking-horse upon this occasion— the real object was to effect a change in the standard of value. If any particular plan were broached for enabling the currency to more effectively . perform all the legitimate functions of a cur rency, he would give it his best consideration; but he earnestly hoped that no legislature would be found. wicked enough to abuse its control over the currency of the state, and to attempt . to force prices either higher or lower than they would otherwise be by an abuse of its legislative power. (Hear.) Mr. COBBETT said that before he proceeded to make one or two observations on the motion substantively before them, he thought it as well to bestow a passing notice on the doctrine of the great sage who had just addressed the house, and of whom lie (Air. Cobbett) had the lucky honour of being a constituent. According to that doctrine, itmattered little whether they legis lated or not in reference to the currency; for, said the hon. representative of' the wisdom of the city of London, prices are not atall affected by. the state of the currency, being_ wholly a question of supply and demand." How did the hon. gentle man persuade himself that men had been asleep all this time since the peace ? Every person recollected that prices were high on the passing of the celebrated bill of the celebrated ba ronet beside him; and every person also knew—and, if he did not, ought to know—that they fell so rapidly and tremendously on the passing of that measure, that the right hon. baronet (Sir It. I'eei) himself got frightened, and out came the small note bill of 1822. Immediately prices rose, and all things went on gallantly till the mad doings of 1825 and 1826 led to another suppression of the £1 notes, with another consequent and in evitable fall of prices, On the passing of the small note sup pression bill of 1826, he petitioned that house, telling it that while he rejoiced that the functions of coining were resumed by the monarch, yet that as sure as fire burned, it' they passed that bill without concomitant measures which he recommended, ruin and universal misery would be the consequences. They passed the bill without the concomitant remedies, and ruin and misery are stalking theland. And, when the hon. member for Whitehaven called upon them to stop this ruin and misery by retracing the steps which engendered it, they were told by the member for London that to do so would be a robbery, and act ing like the unjust steward in the Gospel. They were told as a reason for refusing the present inquiry, that the comforts and happiness of the people had increased because the consumption of the comforts and necessaries of' life had increased. But how was the conclusion arrived at? The noble Chancellor of the ExChequer founded it on the fact that the taxes on those.articles of consumption had increased—that is, the revenue derived from those taxes. This was a dangerous fallacy, and therefore ought to be exposed. If the noble.lord had inferred that be cause the taxes on sugar, coffee, &c. &c. were more productive now than formerly, that therefore the people who paid those taxes were happier and better off than hitherto, it followed that the more taxed a treople was the better and the.happier.—(" No, no," and hear.) the hon. member for Whitehaven said." Do justice to the people of England; cut down the expenditure, or raise up the money ;" and he was perfectly right.—(Hear.) He approved of going into • the committee moved for. by the hon. member, for Whitehaven, not.becaase he agreed withhim about the remedy, but thiuking that inquiry, was.quite proper. It was admitted by all that there had been a robbery; somebody must have committed it. It wait ; admitted that many persons had been ruined, who was answerable for.it ? All said that the mischief had been done, that a wrong had been inflicted ; the noble lord said,it had been by error; so said he (Mr. Cobbett) 'that it was by error, but whocominitted,the error? Or was. it to be said that the responsibility of public officers went no fur ther than getting their salaries r Mr. Ricitaittis said that the plan recommended by,the hon. member for Oldham would lead to national plunder. The noble lord had taken a very narrow view of the question. The bill, which was called by, the name of -a, right hon. baronet, ought to be called, in justice to him, Lord Liverpool's, bill ; it had been intrusted to the right hon. baronet to support because the Chancellor of, the Exchequer at the time was a pour miserable speaker; but at that day the right hon. baronet had not paid that attention to the subject of money he had, no doubt, done since. (A laugh.) He thought that the hon. member for Whitehaven had laid a substantial groundlor,inquiry, and the house would not do justice to itself, to the people, and to the sovereign, if it did not grant a full and efficient inquiry. Mr. ForisTea could say, from abundant opportunity, of ascer taining the opinions of the operative classes, that they were not in accordance with the views of the honourable member for Whitehaven. (Hear.) They knew little of the refinements of this question, but experience enables them to assert that the rise of prices operated in a greater degree upon commodities than- upon labour, and that thereby the labouring classes suffered. (Hear.) Prom all the information he could obtain as a country banker, he could say that the present amount of the currency was perfectly adequate to all 'legitimate purposes. (Hear.) Though lie thought it his duty to vote against the motion of the hon. gentleman, yet iflie or any other member brought forward a motion simpiy confine& to an inquiry into the adequacy of our present currency ; to that motion ha for one would readily agree. Mr. l'. Tuomsos: said it was impossible for-the house to consider that it had any other question before it than this—to decide whether it would confirm or depart from the standard of value as at present by law established. That was the question that now came plainly and nakedly befOre the house ; 'arid he anticipated, from what had passed in the course of the discnsston, that an end would he at last put to the agitation of a subject which he "entirely concurred with the hon. mem ber for Walsall in thinking even now paralyzed in some material degree the trade and commercial confidence of the country, and which, if al lowed to continue undetermined, was likely to be attended with still more disastrous consequences. He objected to the propositions of the hon. member, because he saw in them the complete derangement of the whole commercial and even social system of the country. (near.) lle believed that nothing but ruin and bankruptcy could -follow their adoption, and the loss of that high name for honour and integrity. which. they at present possessed among thitriatiotia.of Europe. (Hear, hear.) If they could no longer bear the public burdens, or pay that which was doe to the public creditor, he should say, "compound w ith biro,exhibit the state of your affairs, say that you are notable to pay the £28,000;000 which he at present receives ; but do not adopt that' whiCh was only..a clumsy means of arriving at the. same end,—which carried with it a a i° . ll istaartiV;rairl,l'se‘ larYetittteil vnll not help oee rwor ,„.,,-,rs_________°7 t 'e'rtraceB ; f ° r----ra‘s, that the people had a von ilr.ltAlvttaws hours' s lio f r a n eto la ry ws bi l acre s is o '' 'r ser, e l e W oldd r now complete disruption of all money contracts, and Ten ORO ' , le' vale and public credit (hear, hear),-which would r d, bu t suaajii (the of i o _ . aof the not only a few rich fundholders, as they were trad erterinf i4O O, e l. could as as clear as the 275,000 public creditors, who received dividends _ a d the , 0 01 th c eils ulaeturers would take the means of livelihood from the wid o %lid,'''`iiit 6l te sd, th e quence o f o w o i d th s this niot iso (Hear, hear.) Let them avoid doing an act of that , . S . 1,01, 01 40) of is e coos _ _ u the enormous wages whi, cause it would inflict on the country all the miser) , ilr use 04 4, ildtr e iumin coos ence of the core laws, occ but because in his conscience he believed it would Fa diy ida te e le g oi , g w ou l d es _ , gad oo ,:garchy wo , l l-77 :) , e -a proud, and o feit that which ought to be as dear to a nation as an 1 70 AdAms , name for honour and integrity.. (Hear," and cries o _, t hey r . e, it take t like their •t - humbled. Let On the motion of Sir H. Willoughby, the debate `X"'' 4 0, tipre _ s ' , Lulus utile Va titian fellow-oppres till to-morrow. ~t ato a '10 0 , 41 1 arise sled peuv e i i btil " , the watchword whenOn thehe motionresolutions of L o relativer d .4 Ith o t o r p t , b t eh ehousereduction xa into T ae 0 1 1 4 4 e ld h,.itiieilIt. on . the noble lord on Friday last were reconsidered and P" 1,.."';,'e oli o r ww far the distr - • Lord G. SOMERSET wished to know when the el , ' ~,d 0 t;,,,, L , corn ni ss , • ess of the count) i n e , w th h a l , ‘ s, with a view to their I the Hertford election committee would be printed- 0 1 4 :1"io 1 sPok e 1 " be th Mr. BERNAL said he had no control over the pri sn , t , aes ts ast,... st es„ s e who agreed with tl evidence was not yet in-the hands of members, he P`; sp yal b een "e r et the landed interest had ha , the suspension of the issuing of the writ for eight ere 4,.., reducer, e,and labourers tb•. • On the motion of Mr. G. Lamb, a select committee ._„ 4 O he r ) T hef u s ince the ~- o ear in inquire into the state of the police in the metropolis..ndtbe.ilv e . sees 1 fact had be peace from 30 to The other orders of the day were then disposed 04 ' i . sees c i te r, who be en declared by the n• ie W en had, for ex lreduce journed at half-past one o'clock. IA e "roes 41. • But those ' amp e, TUESDAY. a the op di s to th s ' like) the • who lived on th In consequence of the ballots for committees ° alle y op seatiers- altered e n. t endholder, had not ad of Mallow and town of Galway elections, the goatrearfer landed wer e now eunistances of the count:: opened till five o'clock. The ballot for a coat was , ~ iJ. oie let erest w receiving interest on 1:8 - j Weymouth election, which also stood for to-sig,S es baa_ r fr s , for i,r.) „eere only y receiving £4O oi A message from the Lords announced that to es s. l . o tile s t s rhi s of tiatitehavlL,lssuld support the motion o a bill for the better administration of justice h ' l ' , t a 4 8 4'1 li eu. 7,_t_i heeRUSe, without subscril ...401 1 ii that K e htleurian h • A • ' Council. t h e Cow ye / ar i d hi pr osperit e coneeiveu it i Sir H. Imseis presented the 13th report of ,0•(I c, gh prie y and a full currency w public petitions. sris" o c tC to ie s • e s the expression of a ps o h ie s nire his • °a both. Mr. V. GORDON. presented a . petition from so t iv her havevower to majesty's ministers to county of Aberdeen for a revision of the Pr e . 0 0 state w the p ow grant. Ina very short ti system. ha d gi ;0 Auld 1 0 , uld he b urs t grant nor deny; for ti Mr. Hums said that the motion of which lie sero ble 0 sc 1 4 shd r °verwh i open, the waters woulc tice, and standing for this day, was one of cons a 'i tbe b y ,t• Il an ulte ( l e tiled by one wild deluge o ante. It was for leave to bring in a bill to rep , „sore s ,. 'her p 'NG s a id ,7 a r, hear.) Geo. 111., chap. 76, and 6 Geo. IV., chap. on, _ 0 561 1 _ 4 ,1 Il art ats ajli asne ssr iv nat the question then under Majesty is empowered to grant pensions to re cola ieo t ib te' y ' ,tsy pie the"'s,oould or would not &Inca( holding, or who have held, certain high and e, lt ;b o t „ e e hl rei ser le this, would or of value. He aske4 flees. He (Mr. Home), however, underste oo , o o ho S(it cop and eon ,. nere pecuniary transactior lord opposite was prepared to state that to La ep t ih e r `end tha"tated character, any man would make the motion unnecessary. ~v er IIITLIO 4 p ee e s hiscli e d b,, t he s distress under which it Lord ALTHORP said that His Majesty's g r v os t"so 5 44 tair.liary r en t . 4 eassure which of uecess given the subject consideration, and the resui „ se pea oriole ,hat a ss tons into inextricable conl was now in preparation for the regulation of W e s. _ t st epee islll P r oject of this kind had never superannuations to which the hon. member r efer,r ..‘ „we. Utftlii i !We acme 'a any•assembly of ratio Colonel DAVIES hoped the noble lord would ir" 3 " d • N leat sre ar,-he had forgotten that hers aelf ", by Of the annual as soon as possible. A s. fil to _ a 40,4,50. ,Turkish budge Mr. DUIHE postponed his motion, and expre,s e s7 s ste4 e sht tse aet as s t hi s it into his philosophy the gallant officer (Colonel Davies) would do to b 'it eitti o t i,t er ei r e s e gtroilif_enner at Constantinople. r l motion of which he had given notice, until the soss eee r ; t o ta ts, aed dite e f o i r l th e aln the new philosophy, I in preparation was brought in. He should, ii, s , o'l Do ap Irt ed fs that that letter medium of value tha• Ist of May bring forward his motion, in order w s,ota ri e „„is, ed o t ni teli i . medium was paper, grounds on which a pension had been given tii! ac t ao . 44 4 hat the r, he house what they want! -a pension which he contended the Crown a hat wig medium object to which they tended f l itt ' lt of t itio hot s'''' (Crie s of '' grant. e a ?, ot •ye • Il s we what th Sir T. TROUBRIDGR said, that in conseques„. 0 0 010 0 _rtihi e ? re. (Heart, meant, let them tell tl fallen yesterday from the Right Hon. Vice-r 1 o e r a c_.„ol4l4lwhieli wash' ile, he , hear.) What was pap Board of Trade, he should postpone the motion to o w ~,,of th h ow, a t, spoke of gold and «live of inquiry into the laws and regulations of Flo , e , os 7Dtr, w e ~orid; bet had been for ages, the c ture opportunity. te at .0 ole o nee so qi what notion could you for 0 03 .ert" oet 4 de . 1 11 de a Mr. O'CoNeeet. gave notice, that in the c i 0 ,. 0 . 1 t, t o ti m arnt? p . rted from the notion th Bribery at Elections Bill he should move chess 0 o st 1,, ext ent Paid on i ll, however, there was to b( clause, introducing a form of oath to be take eau of ati h Yable was that Is being presented, then 1 : bur at the table of the house, to the effect that'' ier 00, 4 A ve , ? But ,0 be issued, and in what :returned by means of bribery. the ora to el 4 1 eir ei l i monge he l o that question his hon. Me • Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved the reading,,osnoss co o ho st f a! a tv ._,.,eould not help seeing chi day Or resuming the adjourned debate on P'"' de b i te'f oo `soitoi'llOw. rtrr, withoutwith limitation, a c reticle" • toned 4, , ,„ th With hi hoe,car, His hon. friei out ••s friend . The order of the day for resuming the ads° „,se Os 'that ni 11 111 4 would pour par • ing . been read, t be , 4 itiak e IlSt to w and would then let it tal sir H. WILLOuGHBY said that the real quest'ta tei ry i ll YOUr e . e the paper valueless, and fro] irti 0 , ilt. to Iretilatin whether it was expedient to enter into an enla se ljos t ot e , le g ti _eonf osiri g medium valueless, : notary system, but whether an inquiry s houla " ac e sa )0 1 (I t se ' we hale lass Iva ; but then, said his hot the existiug distresses of the people, and for s A nt% to its 44 41: gteat Prosa great quantity of page tion it. was sufficient for him to know that of2s,r s ' a ;sort .i i i 0 ? 4 or Wlij ol )(te nt, t ,pertc , Admitting that in this country the majority were without the s v at el° 0 .10 0 st that did n ut exist oug t not to forget that cessaries of lite, and destitute even of sufficie_joesrreoo, of it i tets Ptus Perit s xist at present contributed reference to the report of the poor law conuniss_st t se oet is tit s th e le the Win • aa We had at that time a had read through, would incontestably prove er e IA Fiend _sotto/it that the French the full comma') and the agricultural population of the country red to e e itlce,tith e a s t . o% tct were boasting condition m which they ought to be. It aPP7 pres l os ti o hip e s fro rn ' i t t i eve r continent of Eurotse, we h a great deal of unnecessary apprehension ha , oort or j e , , 'it y, a h e i „ . _ Y, other nation of Europe but c the danger of such an inquiry into the state, ' o il o i l I ' o o 4 k t 4 u,tx. pd h‘S'on.to the sea. This produced f system. He was, on the contrary, of ()Out; e vilsiog ,A, t i. t wsi.Txmiw e i l t tling us to borrow, as we t years_past great defects had arisen, and rest flay oel i t fti th totes gai n win over n the year, had scattered a occasioned, in consequence of Parliament o f ea r s (Poi ist e '4l, h wer e of r the country. He had alwa into consideration, from time to time, the state ss oiri e d b Is alt k the to 1, e ssouldu.aterial use, but he appreb system. He had only to refer to the yarious vi llot ... e4s e i s ot l i e the seneureight 11o:1r/ever, like to see whethc taken place with regard to the Bank, to sil?,, se co as see t t eMathl 4 op s qtleStio a ter the case, though, at t ries were attended with beneficial results. l ie pr° t he e r)3, _ ii,, t , Ilio n; th n• But there were two dit the inquiries regarding the Bank had been t so sae ~00. ( N Jre re . s sotti.,, the other was the insecurity w length of a more healthy action upon its parts _ i . oa r r - i I!‘,4lqtit ite rrip tis ',.,„„eceasion to poor persons ii from thinking that an inquiry into the state e a aseg e sf ed, , v eep. at th iyadi n ,, 4 2T v ulties, but he never den system would be fraught with any degree sil sw pre sai ef t sPh s , e o4 ,7,Slibil:JLl_ antages, which should ind• of opinion that many of the evils which not parts tit i te e ,, o tesi on. ' N s ytth some attention before the country owed their origin to a want o sf tli!, o P., tie s lett ti ! we re is _lle did believe that the la inquiry from time to time into the state l' ye esit a r OP 'r,oe th ere great a state of prosperit3 He thought that even those who were the a, o "opoi t i be t t lll l (11_ 11 ea r.‘ "Jit I l parts of the country we maintenance of the present system ought not:' it 1 0 0 0 00 e ti rt ,p Ivii yar. \ i i i ) Th e e farmers' capitals wer tion, for if a delusion prevailed ou the subjea , hoo tl, he p t o st or e tLation:4 they called all agricultural towns pated at once by inquiry. If, on the one Pr ate t 0 eat 44 4 ,4 fah, There a want of money, that thought that the distress of the country arose ' we re 1 , thl i s p . i at 1 ; oet 'S'ere ea sLwas a class of small trade occasioned by the contraction of the carrel: l, Y, i„(ter f tiO o ,*OO th e t,eF, it me, and. if the bankers had surely would be an important thing to show bsaild, !tees, .iths t ' not d ecided w ould_ be a means of facil views were erroneous; and if, on the other " ro ora iti g i Jtct t wa s t tve ot) ; i 'lAtlion of his constituents; found that relief would be derived from a re eti re elltr e s y , ?th e ° the , e ir , !pie opinions to any body, he standard (he would not go over the reasons f°filb ip ! )) 0t ) WijOi44 l 9 l OUjiti ee lun. Then it would be ask( a standard detai as they were in the stroll 8, ai'd if that : 1 ; 11 4 4 obj ec t with? His objection was this given by he honi ed embr for Essex in 13. 8, i s ), es o , (,ISet „ as an (for his hon. relativ speech of the hon. member for Whitehaven ill i lii ol_ s i a l „ I 4 le a p!, 0, no „ a complete subversion of be found, he repeated, from the result of stic s ' e l ni caP t i i e P; l'e t , l l` Or the" house . and . hear.) It was quit , introduction of a silver standard would be ta with, be set , et apt) , o tio.l 0nn ..., Lo listen to the proposal wit ing practical relief to the country, consistentt tar) boo ; e ; t k e e tet 11 :3 ev . V. His hon. friend had, rode nance of the public credit, would not the t il t ke.t t oet l . • Ptes_ it s s distre! one did who only wanted t I 'be 0 Itli vti s as i x , 'of th e eo by most beneficial consequences ? In supP" a to , ti o re d 0 43 at f or , Pussibi untry, which might the hon. member for Whdehaven, he begge op tic ea ill ,kr i . i ,et i ns L lti qu _ . c for any man in his sense as not going furthei with him than as to the P. a c oe,, Ai l, yti, ‘ on. c. 7, in order to afford relief, fro• into the subject. Of this he was sure, that 1 i . a (a13,,,10„ ' 4 p ro Wh oe -tf, exam'f or 'nelad and from the conclusim brought forward for introducing a silver standaloseUte n' t , th ath Poe e a e _olij e et vis ie the hon. and learn ec such a measure should emanate from the gov cl st ien t , e 0 art e at th _ , et o f res 4 , 3 a repeal of the union, we of it would be to increase the capital, and tor ea t ir bi it s 41 taOr to at groat. _oolutions; or, supposing in 1 ductive industry of the country to an rocs 0 0 0 0 0 , t i v d iv e , t l iditi o illiti g Z e ll Mr. Owen, or any other (Hear.) s at pal so tie r s Oti o ; sign 1 1 :4 u lanki te d tY, were to make a sp Mr. CLAY said that there was an impOrta to n io t o sa g ,i of t, hoof n , and on a community ( tha dea fte to ne pro xis not received in the course of this discussion rest I h f ot, f iu A ' , S h -011, z , w soci al Or e a committee to cot he thought it deserved. They had heard a g rst sve lh (4, A 1 p i t e s h o ,., In the , der in this country, he s declamation, but nothing in the shape of a ; i otie efire7os nth hit, P ta '4'4 n.i._ train of those philosophers hon. member who had brought forward this, On. la sy lli eres 1 , 11 ,: h oil. t. said 'i.e. his decided vote against the the hon. member who supported it. Those]roura aV ea, te: t, h h e Ol son , tt although he believed he a attempted to connect, without bringing Or' o f h,eolitob! shoe l e l lie d o ' n '', l Co lii ‘ e 7! . . Baring) in the practical the had to a logical proof of the accuracY d 00, I tt s , e ee th I ,l l `ltin es a „ded in the vote he should gi they had attempted to connect the distress, Iree te_ 4 o i li t el 41(1,1411Ni:eh excited by him in the conclu the return that had taken place to cash pal t he .(x t bol. e a ' 7 l N i t Dit s4 er lees, t f eti s so much doubt and app He admitted that several great interests m sat lo ot; s , 1, e,„ to _ r th eto _ N tne suggestion were accede effected by distress at the present momentsrattas t it ,,e ll , l ti 144 : 4 li! te ant 511°._'er unnoticed. If his hon. this distress could he remedied without resobleditoserif. t t oli . ta hilit i i questrileuiry into these toast import national faith. The country possessed port rad jet° s / j, d * (1, 4 t 4 I t Uf fact counected with a mane means of extricating itself from the tempo va rt eet4 te r , N e tre r i t t e its :c rease (~ himself frepared to ado which it was placed, but he would not n , 0 1. ,, e i r esl ) .ill I .) I,t t o 11 4 °4 the raercia difficulty and to those means at the present moment. Nv i'„ o esi ' S o s 42, th, a , eon s ub Jed of the currency, whi standard, he certainly hind no objection to "' . s , to, l s i, to t il l ,a t t hleti nu !titutino• +I. ! the , the main obstacle tender at the market price. ss ese i s , ki ll ,. i.,, 9 th„, ,of hon m b for NV ‘ , 1 9 't r'" c.o' tip '.e, it s , i ri ' pro as . • ern er , Mr. W. Wairmone said, that it' the lin n ; o , 1 g er t. e , l ei ( t at iti Ne a , j pr e d ic t ) . ed re-issue of small note hay.s. should succeed tu carrying his mere si as ,st y so; q tas i tih. Is wits r ing the consequences of a the whole country into confusion. Th, in u, sS o pti o 1 e i tt: 1 ;1 111 ea s e felt coespeet to the unavoidable re body out of doors, kind, he was inclined to t:, the as, t 0 0 -e , e , 4.4 1 ,, ati on. ate svos,nfident that the inevitable c house, who did not believe that the result t s , ae y. o : t s .o , Ith gee se h (t ie rl be, that gold would dish motion would.be the depreciation of the enr, e r` ay th s , g re; s l h _ti lll tall hi: 3 ; a l e r e ' r r.) Ile could prove the curt Bible for any person who looked to facts to 0 , 0 o f pr' os i p!,, •lese notes s tes h ad 7nce to the example of ever was, compared with other nations, in a slat of de L e h 01:, liNoirtilae7t,huieallueen issued. In S'cotland ti provement; at the same time. he woull's to lo t ' s o4 i i iN , t of t oe h ad 1 co nvertible into coin, and was a vast quantity of individual distres , to oPI slte t ilelt e re et ' n Tir e i res u a, doubt, if required; but wl eeived that it was the duty o r t h e eouse_ ed the_ 1 ,0 , sty t i ssoist e cilie on se t istie rt s , Filet they had pr, The house were told that those who proPo s aa s 1 1 0 5 , 0 ,e : 0 . k tl h iZre 40t411,1 with In Ireland the sa the standard of value were not dishonest , ate eti s de, s. , . 1 4 k ,, g 041... ZS o f a _, .preeisely the same result. in, their own minds they had no dishonesiss t to a eo e,cl l u sh s ' r lfr ett e x tb f ts o sstteT smaller denomination w deprive people of their property, it' to res,l t hat 6a ltr i lob..l . N 4 noise ' t o it l it k Ise: qir ree t-e s, not only gold, hut sill would drive out of the country all the cant,'S' aet be o ot o se 6 1 , ,,,,i 0 N o jilt; that tip In fact, the matter cc be removed from it, in order that It inigia. %o re ob , !. 11 ,,, k O, con`,9nbt small e bankers had a direct in ther depreciation or robbery,-if to do tli . r l oot a tP d , O L D( 8 , stititte notes whil th '0,61 is": 11 rh e a he thought it would be difficult to define ma i t 1 srwith addcheaper circulat . tl • 1011 . .11 ally-consisted. (Hear, hear.) oill s t P r to 04.' th 84 C11 4 itted of a i iP (I 0 0 ber c°: .fi e 41 /0 44 eb s Ystetr, e was possinst Mr. FRYER said that he wished for ai sauceso, co b . 0 1 t1 , 4 1 v1 1 ,.. on ad hate r h a - -of currency. But th: tresses of the people, but he would not ~ o i l e f . t o e q_ a N l,, q I, t ds _: .(ina , Is I n t e bala nced by the simple fa the currency. When he heard the right_ li wo p? se, , s q - i ): t o sl ier i; it s or _ecurity against excessive f chestar.(Mr. P. Thomson) deny that•th e JO 1 11 ; t 1 A tb e o! N ri tlt t ba.rike);Bl4ight sieltrities you would fro were suffering, under great distress, it i n Wol l j o g"; tm, t er h ilt t ty '''t hot ea s but t t e an ultimate guarantee souisirment and- indignation. Why, 11l ae gis% Se, Or ti t ; 't,Slss'alsogairist 144) Bohi as ' ne guarantee of al Bilston, places with which he was wo e tas t, te..,,i'V e ' ~J, 44,4 q q4N ce lsver.„ s „ , which constituted the al rates had been nearly doubled within th , e 0,3 i O t rtil i fo' , k il kt4 l P r ive s, 4 q au i s ' e s of Paper money. (I dared to say that other members could war eo (ls• see ss i ie 't:) , ~..4 . 30 E tt ,e° 4pp, one of f.:l and £2 hotes witlircsped to their respective neighlt" theYsiii e s t ll o o a each 'a r osoi ',e eai ,,,1 1 a fictitious stimulus to that they were only wasting. their time till e,,,ly 0 ,Ar e co:ipi I,4l,l,lqther 0 „ c8 ; h d - ti go on for a fee months most.atrocious of all monopolies-thesu °l3 'the o l l t o o l ,r,e, t4 l .s t ', b oe ° ah ot ;', an kit,„._e contrary, pple lisle so long usurped-by the landed oligarchYs s e e, t. a g ss i V ry ssi. lne e 4 1. 8 in:,,,retit increise of pros 't• es utles o peri of this country was not the currency hu"11 su Wer'id w o l ,l° , tie e xcit e sive_ old r two years the pipe . a anti till they were swept away distress an s ova 0 s an ges (1 had - elr s lot of the people of •England. If Ininistepir, t heir w fs ,„ ~ easy gone 4 U - then -there woo the abolition of this oppressive moiler ° '