The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-01 00:00:00

w:slled_ more time had been given for Cie eossiele ration of the .measure. ',The 13111 which it was pro po :ed to 'repeal had procured vastriUmbers'on ii service,-and as Many almost as was de:Jired the Individuals so engaged entercatinappliceion for general service. There was, one principle expressed in tlie:Aa 'it was proposed to establish which was uit , ehritained, though perhaps in stronger. language, in the Bill that -Was.to be repealed. The' Hon..Ueotleirian concluded . with intimating an in teniidn of moving, that the further proceedings may tie adjokirtied but hedid nut make the Motieti. Mr. iltri/NIVARINQ was anxious to express his opinion thus early,•before the House. would have heard the sentiinents of these high authorities, after which he could notpresutrie to' offer himself. He Agreed' with the Honourable Gentleman who spoke list, that it was better the discussion should be - put off to a future day. He thought' that, under the present circumstances, we ought not to.part with any measure that went to . 'add to the public strength till we had some - adequate substitute. But he should vote for toe repeal Of this Bill ; for the sooner'a bad -- measure was got rid of the better. The Bill went n a-palpably, wrong foundation, in giving improper ditties to Parish Officers, - whose charaaer was partly civil and partly religious (a laugh.) The ditties of Recruiting Officers did not tally with the situation' of Churchwardens. The measure operated in the way oftaxation to a degree which Ought never to be tanaioned except'` in the 'Ways and Means of the Year. The taxation under this Act fell in proportions, the inequality of which he had wit- nessed in- the most . oppressive forms. In the Pa• rishes of Mary-le-bone and St. George's, the most opulent in the capital, the rate of taxation under. this ' Bill was - in the proportion of 4d. in the pound to the . rent. In St; Giles's it Was rs. and in the Eastern Pa rishes still more. It may be said pool's" rate Was, levied in the same way ; but it should be recolle6led, that the money-under the poors' rate was expended in the Parish, for the benefit of the Parish, and this money wasuot. 'As to the measure proposed to be. substi toted.for this Bill, he feared the Right Honourable secretary• calculated upon men rather as he would save them, than as • human 'nature was. The in , ducements offered to engage men to eater for general service, lie feared, 'would have but little elle& The' soldiers of this Country, and those . di•psed to embtace the condition of a soldier, did not regulate their condii& by the moral calcula-, 'on ofanose sentimental feelings/whiai were among the principles of the Right Hon. Secretary'S Plan. tie felt himself bound ti) vote for the repeal of the 4dditional Wence A6t, he had - been a witness of itsurijust . and oppressive effeas : but he was far front thinking that the measure propdsed ought to be its substitute. Cii/V.AEM had given way with satisfaaion to - the lion. ,General. - When the House had been , denied the light of the opinions of the General Ofh , . ctrs alrcady colleEted, it .was some consolation that there were in, its own body some high authorities; f•Otrn which it might still derive'thenrstinformation. He was pleased that the authority of the fion:Gene 7 rat was favourable to the sentiments he had expressed. "he HOn. Gentleman behind him, though he con aerutiod the Bill, was more strongly averse to the Measure proposed in succession to it. He allowed Shat the operation of the Bill was in many instances hard,but tnendments might have been made to-remove the hardships complained of; and those ampndmenti might be matter for consideration. He agreed, how :ever, that the general principle, rather than the de.;. Lail, was to be considered in the present instance. oB.served that the Gentlemen 'at the other side .4eard. with complacency that this was not the time for discussing the general question, and that every point, , except those relating to the particular ques tion, ought to be- reserVed. The condull.of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite was in favour of the proceeding be meant to propose. For if the Hon. Gentlemen were really of opinion that the At in`question ought not to be suffered to remain one day unrepealecf, why did they remain days and weeks in office without - proposing any measures to that died 'When at length the Hon. Secretary unfolded his views in a very able speech Of four hours, it ap'- Peared that all the advantages he proposed were in .distant prosped, The Bill now before the House required us to tread bark the steps of our ancestors, and to make compulsory .training a part of the law Of the Country. He had asked whether, in any Country, • it was the custom to enlist for term of years; and to this no satisfactory answer had been re turned. If it Should be necessary to call forth any aeneral exertion (he did not - mean the necessity aris ing from invasion, but the common emergency aris ing necessarily from the comniencement of a wat, the proper season for offensive decisive operations), what resource, wonld - now remain ? The only way in which the force raised for limited - service could be useful in this view was by liberating the disposable force, and placing it entirely at the disposal of GO-- verninent for offensive, purposes. With respect to the levy en masse, all the objection to it Was not only this general power of calling out every one to whom the provisions of the Bill applied, but what Was of more importance, that this principle might be applied arbitrarily. It was not the general powers of the prerogative that were called in question, but that the selection was not sufficiently guarded against the arbitrary Oppression of indiViduals. This deration of the principle had been given to the Levy en masse At when its influence had been mitigated by the lot, by an option•olother service, With the ' penalty of a flue, and bX other modifications under which the compulsion operates more locally. Having been thus modified, it was enforced in its lenient form. If the object had been to get rid of the eom pulsiOn,,he could' Understand it : but .to adopt.that principle, and to enforce it in a niore harsh and a more dired way, to procure an inferior service, was what could not be easily reconciled. When the Right 'Hod. Secretary had stated among the causes of tepeal the grievances occasioned by this Aid, and the quantity of force thd machine lost in its fridion, 'he geemed to say that the principle of compulsion, whenever used in this free Country, ought tube used with all the Mitigation of which it was capable, and without violating the feelings of those to whom its 'operation extended. This tint tr ldin suggested to every one the question, What is to ° become of the illilitia ? Consistently with the Right Hon. Gentle m en's plan, the inference was, that the Militia should fall. The Militia did fall. At the close of the war the ballot was to.cease,and the Militia be recruited by a bounty. After this you may call it what you please; it w co 'ttierel l .‘fttia. Wbett the,loeal . and pcysOn4l'- conne;tion which 7k r .a.s the principal charaoeristiC and, reconitnendatioo of the • Militia wasirerndved; it VI% b) called the Army of the Crowd; it may be called the ,Fencible Army • it was no more a Militia: It was a force enlited • for different services, by different 'bounties. ' The question :Os not now, whether men should be raised for .different services by different bounties, nor, whether they, should be raised by coin pulsion, hoWevet= modified,"The question - was, Whether_ the Ml,itia - .Was -to be recruited, on the repeal of ille I.nillot, by the Crown, or by the Cowfies ? by ,either, what distiadion ,was there between it and the; force which it was now sought to get rice of ? If the modified• compulsion, which the Militia Systern preserved, were abandoned, the Country never could again, in the most try-. ing circumstances, have recourse to a compulsory levy. On what did the !tight" ionourable .Secre tary rest his' hypes of the system which was , 10 re place the present ? Even If there were 99 chances out of tclo in favour of the success of Abe, Right Hon.. Secrewy's•Plan, he woiil I be bound to shew the Househow that tootle chance would be provided . , against,' before he could be entitled to the pitssing of the Bill. He. wished to know what experience enabled the Right. Ili n, . Secretary, to calculate 4o sanguinely • upon his Plan. He - thought/the Plan ought to have( ' been tried in a partial and . qniet way before it was proposed to discard fir it that modified cowpulsiou which could never be resorted - to again. —With respe& to the Bill it was intended to repeal, if under the disadvantage of, a notice . of motion , for its repeal it produced 1 5 or 16,000 men this Year; and if Parliament last ywr had kuidioned it in the prospeCt of its atlbrding'''9ooo, the .repeal would come now with a . very ill grace. If alteration 'or modification wits .proposed, lie . would not obieel, but he could not think of parting altogether with a measure that siapplied a number of recruits equal to the whole of the 'casualties Of the Army. The Right Honourable Secretary held forth a pledge that his system would•firul...more won than weFe. now found for.the Trl,ilitia bythe ballot, and tbr the Line, by the ordinary recruiting, -over and above what was now furnished by this Ad. The •promise was' so . , gigantic that nobody would put-faith in it. The li-. in'ttation of the term of service was besides calculated . to take away as many as it added, aftera Very little time. If this were to be done, he did not tkink the House of Commons the place for doing it. If any bOon were intended to the,soldiers, it ought to be allowed to come from the Crown. May not the new Plan have been silently and partially tried, and the House ciilled upon to giVe its sauEtion to the result, rather than to the crude experiment. The eXperi ment was to be sure worth trying, but was it ths'ne fore to be tried in War, at a time when the Army was at a very hi i ,;h .amount, when it was inapplicable to that Army as it stood. it had been stated that en listment for terms of years was the praiice of other Powers. If it had been, Britain was so ditferently circumstanced that the rule would not be binding upon her; but the fad was,. no one Power acted upon the system of levying . men for a term of years. Unless these Powers en. fisted volunteers for li mited service the.comparison was inapplicable; and according to the statements made, their system was compulsory for term df years. Our whole system *as to be reversed; that which was now the excep tion Was to be the rule. The result of the experiment 'made in the American war was sufficient to warrant the repetition of it now ;. but not to justify its being Made the foundation of a complete change in the system. The_ Regiment raised by his NOble Friend (Lord De Blaquiere) for limited service had ended, after condu&ing itself very gallantly, by engaging for general service . . It was said to be unwise to mamruvrel too much in the face of au enemy. Though tho Right Hon. Gentleman had a long time aEted on that maxim, his late ConduEt was contrary to it. What Man in the Country who had a Musket in his hand was not cast into doubts and deliberations with him- self and his Corps by the measures of the Right Hcu. Gentleman. The Volunteers, the and, the Regular Soldiers, saw their whole state and condition made the subject of Parliamentary dis cussion and Legislative arrangemenL What ex cuse could any person, sitting on the - side of the House where he sat, find in the, times of the hottest opposition for urging tOrward a iueasure so . vasti.and involving such momentous Consequences. What excuse could any Minister find for bringing forward such.alneasure in times like ale present. If ,any necessity existed, it must arise' from causes not. known in the House - . He could not pretend to lay down the measure of the information col le6ted. by the Hon. Gentleman ; but so far as he was . aware of the opinions and authorities collected on the subjeft, he believed, and the supposition was confirmed by the statement of the Right Hon. Se cretary. himself, that they were nearly balanced, But till he had better means of judging of the opinions, by comparing them with .the fads, he should beg leave to doubt that the balance of the authorities was against him. Those whogave their opinions in favour of inlisting for a limited period, k.vere against dismis sing the men in time of war. Eleven' opinions of the thirteen were express as to this point. The other two, he had authority to say, coincided with them. On this ground he was adverse, not to the trial of the experiment, but to the trial of it in time of war. He was adverSe to the limitaion of the service to so, short,a period. The Right Hon. Secretary bad no one authority to countenance him except that of the -Hon. Gentleman behind him, ;whom - he was happy to see in his place, a rumour having gone abroad that he had accepted an office, under tint Crown, by which he ought to have vacated his seat.— If there was nothing. in the sentiments entertained out of doors, 'to induce the Right Hon. Gentleman to bring forward his new.system, certainly nothing had passed, in - the debates of the House to encourage him to do so ; unless indeed he thought that because the House had for several years rejected his opinions— because they had last Session refused to repeal the Additional Force At on his suggestion, they were now to go to the right about, and admit the truth of . what they formerly denied. It was a service, which the Right. Hon. Gentleman undertook voluntarily, and uncalled for. He wished to kno, whether or not the system which the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed, was able to sustain the onus of all our . other previous military establishments, which it went tee destroy ; and therefore, however entitled it might be to praise, as an aid of those establishments, yet the Right Honourable, Gentleman must, shove the House, that it was sufficient aline to supply their 41,10: . .., before he could: reashilebly -.n,,-Mpese•-that, it 'w.ould be adopted. Mile h had been said , of the lEird -Ship of service for lite,, as ifethae service wfm.S . nueduntil life was really exhansted, instead of com prehending only thal part of life in which a man was fir fur military duties., It had been also asserted, that this was the ft .time,that. - o.oy,,atteinp madb to meliorate' the condition of the soldier.— ThoMigh this ,was tile first that had - been talked of in that - tlonse,it Certainly w_s•flot the first. Dining the adininistratihn of inilitary affit;rs great and illus '•-trious Personage who now held the sittiationpfCorn r mandgr in Chief rite i eceivai Many -boons, "and had experieneed,Censiderimbie 4 - 4overnent in his simatien. Redoubled like Wise, \i''lletlwr.the induce ment which , this proposed limitation_ held out to the soldier would prove a very strong one. To the class. from which., soldiers were 'raised, the, ac quireinent of• the cOmmon necessaries of life,was nearly all that., was desired. Give them, raiment, food, and lodging 3 , take care "of them in Sickness, and they were 4m:ensiled., Jile.had seen a plan.for li mited service ;Mat Weekly Periodical 'Paper, which Seemed to him much better calculated to obtain 'the end proposed than that of the Right Hen. Gentleman. • The. Plan he alluded to Went to militarise the whole people. The principle of it was hot to retain but to dismiss. • The, benefits of that Plan he,could under stand. The Right Hon: Gentleman's ; PLin, on time eontrary, went not to dismiss but to retain s and yet -:the only intellizibleend declared mode which he held ~o ut was short inhAments. The way in -wimiCh the Right Hon. Gentleman bad.replied to the Objedioli which had been made with regard to men in foreign • service, the terni of whose inlistineht shouldexpire„ was very extraordinary. It wasdifficult to say which was the most hard to solve„ the original difficult);, or the Right'Hon:.Gentleirian',,s soitition of it. FL pro posed .to-obviate it, by drafting those men into, other Regiments. _Now if there ever lad •been a rnea 7 sure more peculiarly loaded' with obloquy than any other, it was this of drafting._ had also been sug gested, that an additional term of six niontht might be bad recourse to, but wheh this: term. .expired, the difficulty • Would recur. He 11.1 d lately read a published- lift of General Washington, In looking through •his campaigns, it would be found, that the ',constant burden • of leis correspondenCe with the Congress vas complaints of the incon venience which he sustained frorn'the inlistment of his, troops f s , r a liMited term, andreqiiests that Con gress would, for the future; ,at least, inlist them to , serve during the Waft. sonsetimes . oecinted to that . General, that on time eve. of a battle, his Army, by the absurd constitution of it, crumbledto nothing. He was therefore anxiety; to bring it' to that state froth which the RightflonourableGentleman..seem ed desirous to'carry the British Army (Mr. Canning here read a part of a letter from General Washington to Congress, in which he termed the short enlist ments pernicious. and attributed his misfertunes to this single.circisinStance, asserting, that Cf . ihe Ame rican Army had been permanent fr o m the coin: mencement of the war, .it would have arrived at a state of discipline that Would haVe enabled it to 'bid' defiance to the attempts of its emies). It was true the periods of enlistinent were shorter thtui those of time Right Hon. Gentierrian a they Were annual. But this did not alter the principle or weaken the value of Gen. Washington's objeetion. He was desirous the enlistment should be for the war ;. and he bad no more reason then . than. we have now tt) believe . the war would be short. 'lt might be said; that for seven.years no inconvenience would be felt from the new regulation. This was true ; but it . was also true that after the expiration of that period an annual in- Convenieece would be felt. ;.What would be • said of the danger to •which our colonies might be subject: at the moment when a considerable part of their-gar rison might become released from their'- engage ments'? He trusted . that the spirit of our soldiery would not be urged as a means of averting that dan ger. To avail ourselves of that spirit the rule must be abandoned, and thus partial abandonment would be produaive of numberless ill conscquenees On the other hand, were the rule strictly adhered to, the Right Hon. Gentleman might' perhaps *exclaim, " Perish the colonies rather than this principle." The' Right Hon. Gentleman had declared his intention of discountenancing the many tricks and artifices re sorted to In the inlisting of soldiers. He haddepre cated -very strongly the motives by which the-Recruit ing, Officers were frequently aduated. For his part he was iippreliensive of looking too closely into this and similar stibie&s: He' was apprehensive that if. all human motives were proscribed, all excitement to human action must cease. It certainly often happened, that a Recruiting; Officer availed himself of the situa tion in ..vinchdie found the man whom he wished to lutist.' He might sometimes find him in mistOrtune, .sometimes in love, sometimes in debt, sometimes in drink. Were the Recruiting Officer to ad so fairly, as not to. holdout to him the glory of a military lite,. and endeavour to depreciate in his, estimation - that which he pUrsued; were lie to en ter into full descrip tion of tne dangers to which a soldier was liabk, to talk of cannon. balls, 'of wounds, of.death e instead of paintin , the fair side of the question ; were _this the plan which the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to re commend and sanction, he feared that the number of recruits obtained by it would be but_ very smell. But it seemed that the Right Hon. Gentleman placed great reliance on ,the prospe& of re-inlisting men at tlic expiration of their first term of service. He agreed with the Hon. ,General, that a laxity of di's-, cipline must be-the consequence of this system, fOr the reasons assigned by that Hon. General, should the Soldier determine to remain only during his first • 1 term, and'from the six. months. drunkenness which the receipt of his. bounty would occasion. The Rt. Hon. Gent. had talked a great deal before the de velopment of his plan of looking into the deepest recesses of the human heart for the springs of imaion. .He had listened with great attention , to• what would be the result of this profound investigatiyn, and he confessed that he was somewhat surrised to find that the Rt. Hon. Gentleman's knowled. e of the human heart led him to suppose that an adt.tian to his pay of sixpence a week would obliterate in a Soldier the love of his home, and outweigh in his mind: every other consideration. . A great objedion which he • held against the Right. Hon. Gentleman's plan was, that he had declared it non-applicable to the existing Army. When time Right Hon. Gentleman had been pressed on this subject he answered, that they had already made a contrad with the Country, to the . terms of which they were bound to adhere. He dif fered fromhim with regard to tagec.mnstrudion to be m put upon thi4t ontraft..- Ie eOuld not but think, taat in fairness it entitled the men who entered. into it to every conOngent' advantage, when he considered that under it. he would be subjeEt' to every contingent hardship and-danger. Besides the Right Honourable Gentleman would sclreelv contend, that as these men. :_,lead entered into a cOntraa, the terms of which were, in his opinion, unjust - and oppresive, that, therefore, they must remain bound by it. Above all men it *onht least become thatitiOt TIOn. Gentleman to say' this. " But" it 'night b,e answered, " to grant this in dulgence to the ntilsting Army, wopld be attended with considerable to a t e Public." He . - accepted this answer e but - if he accepted the answer to 'this propaSitioe, he uretati.)e allowed to make it to all the other plopoeitioes. If it mould be attended with considerable public incenvenience to limit the ,service of the existiog Army, it would be attended with no less. public incenvenienhe to recruit that Army with, men inlisted for limited service. In whatever- view he took of the subjed, he. saw laOr thing but inconvenience and embarrassment. really thought, thataas the itight Hon. Gentleman . ,proceeded, he would find, this, to be more and more the case, acid-that At last he'-would be happy- could he retread the, steps which he had taken. . He truSte ed, therefore, that the House would not hastily stake every thing cohnersled with 'the safety of the country, on a measure, which however desirable it might be as an experiment on a small scale, yet,as a general system -of the military defence of Great Britain, was one of the wildest that had been or. that ever could be pro posed.; The Right _.Hon. Gem:Lenten had extolled the -advantage of -ha lug _a huge regular Army,- On that' subeea there could be no difference of opi iliOn ; but the 'Hotise might certainly be at liberty, to doubt, whether or not, the establishment of a very ,large regular Army without any check or bee lance, -was a fit state for the military system of this Country. The Right Hon. Gentleman was endea- Votiiiifg to lay the foundation of a large regular Army whilele_was _saPpi ng every thing,that ought consti tutionally to.accompany it.. He might, perhaps, be told, that the checks and balances to which .he al- - laded. were the tnereereaturea of imagination, and that'. it was in uo degree probable, that the Militia, or the Volunteers, would ever he really opposed to the Line. Still they e eperated :tan check. What was the case with the Constitiation. of the Country).--- When, foreigners 'were told of the power of this braneli of theleeislature, and of the power of that branch, : theY'fieacied that the .work of Government and Legislation Must 6t?.11(1 but the. fa& was, that it was carried'on mere smoothly by these means.- The operation of .our check the regular Army' ough Silent: - The- Right 'll6s7rseefitle- Man i s SyStehe was calculated to destroy, those checks, and Co erect a 'lnge unbalanca Armye- This was subjeel .of infinite importance in a Constitutional point.of view, .and be Certainly thought that Parliaa merit ought not to Accede to it, without a much more urgent' neeek,ity were shewu for such a measure than had hitherto. been brought forward ; particularly in the new. mode of raising the-Militia, which thellight Hon. Gentleman proposed if it were to be raised by the Crown, it 'would--be liable to all the Consa-. tutional objeCtions againsatastanding - Army, without produeing to the Country the advantages of aregular Army. This year, for the first time Since.* Re volution, Vet - hem:n had voted the Supplies tier tha Army before ihe phesentatieu of.the Army. Estimates. 'Having so tier foregone the-jealousy which ought to charaeterise their proeeedings , in _these respeats, . it behaVed them to be. cautious what deicri ß Omi of Army.evas to be raised by these Supplies. He-might. be told, that from whatever danger to the Constitn tion there existed . in a standing Army, the, Mutiny Bilk. was a sufficient security... , He did not think so. The Mut-inv.Bill was annual, and recog - nised no term of service. Besides, if thelltight Hon. Gentle Man's system were established, the House would agree to -the raising ofthe soldier's pay, after a service of 7 years, would tell him so, and would give him e vested interest iu a pension, which would 'be saleable pro:, perty.. One would have thought, from the statement of the piinciple on which the, Right lion: Gentle man proposed the. Additional Defence Aa,,frena the strong preference which he had manifested fiat voluntary over compulSory ser-vicee that there was at least one military institution in the Country which he must regard with admiration. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had read in ancient history, that the whole populationof a Country, had suddenly quitted their accustomed habits, and had voluntarily essinned a martial appearance, and .subjected themselves to military djacipline, he Would have spoken . of such an event with enthuSiasM. But realities did net snit him.. Distant phantoms alone could interest his feelings. ' At the very time when it was said by France, that the people of this Country, gorged with wealth, were insensible to honour, and inca pable el'exetaien=at that very -Moment did they give the lie to these assertions, and prole themselves aliVe to every generous and every. patriotic semi . ment. Brit this was too near an event-for the Right Hon. "Gentleman. He thought that the assumption of the soldier by the Citizen, polluted and degraded • the, 'military - character. Many of those who had e been the most prominent in their exertions on this occasion had ,been subjected to the meanest in sults. He certainly acquitted 'the Right Honourable Geutleinan of having uttered any personalties, but it must be strongly in the recollection of the House that an individual had been mentioned in the most .unbecoming manner, whe,e only -fault was, that abandoning oh his.thrmer habits, he had come for ward at a period of danger in a way,which seemed to him best calchlated to disservice to hiS Country.. He could not concur, with the Right Hon. Gentle- Man when he, told the House that the Regular Army was the . sole cliampion of the Country, and that if this chaMplon wereedefeated the Country must fall. The instances which he had adduced of the Battles , of Austerlitz amid Uhri were not in point.- The Right Half. Gentiernan;had said, that after the Aus trian Armies had beep defeated at those places the French Forces passed on avithout the slightest op 'position. But he would ask: the Right' Hon. Gen tleman if there had been between the Inn and Vi enna,four hundred thousand Volunteers, or the Mi litia, of which this Country could boast, would the conquest of - that capital have been thenso easy—er would it have been - at a ll effeCted ? s e--He could there fore sek; no cause for stating_ that the very existence el the caeteetry depended en the Begelar Army alone. With regard to the assertion that the UniOn. of the civil a: d the military characters, had disgraced the latter, his opinion was dire stly the reverse. 'He