The Sun. — London, England, 1847-02-05 00:00:00

FAMINE IN IRELAND AND AND SCOT..' L. UNITED RELIEF ASSOCIATIONI A public meeting, convened by the committee.appointed at the recent conference of clergymen and dissenting minis ters, held at Exeter Hall, assembled then larg? ve roomstate of that building, at twe lve o'clock yester,recei ments from deputations who have arrived from Ireland and Scotland, to communicate to the British public the real facts of the present distress as they have witnessed them in these countries. The meeting was very respectably but not nu merously attended. The following gentlemen occupied the platform :—Samuel Gurney, Esq., Dr. Urwick, Dublin ; Dr. ll‘Leod, Glasgow • Luke Hansard, Esq., Charles Cochrane, Esq., Dr. Ferguson, St. Dacy Irvine, Esq., B. F. Mosse, Esq., Morris Were, Egg Sir. z Dr. Mackenzie, P. Pittar Es . Mr. Randolph, and a number of clergymen and dissenting ministers. On the motion of the Rev. Dr. CamasLx, Samuel Gurney Esq., was called to the chair. The Caarnelaen in opening the proceedings, said they were met to take into consideration the great afflictions of Scotland and Ireland at the present time, with a view to alleviate them. As gentlemen were present able to speak more accu rately on the subject than he was, he would not trespass on their time, but it could not be denied that thousands of per sons would fall victims to the calamity. Scotland was not so severely visited as Ireland, but in the Hebrides, Shetland, and other western isles, the scarcity of food was great, and he was glad that they were to receive a portion of the funds. The distress, however, in Ireland was beyond description. The calamity was so great that no amount of relief would do more than partially relieve it. There could be no doubt but thousands would fall victims, and he was sure it must afford pleasure to every one if, by his or her individual as sistance, a single life could be preserved. He would now call upon others better able to communicate information to address them. The Rev. Dr. Uawicx (Dublin) then addressed the meet ing, and after dwelling upon the assistance which Ireland received from England in 1822, when the last famine visited the farmer country, said that great as that visitation was, and much as it was felt, it could not be compared to that which at present visited that country. According to the calculations made in the House of Commons and elsewhere, the money value of the food lost did not amount to less than twelve millions by the lowest estimate, sixteen millions by another estimate, and twenty millions by a third estimate. When it was considered, then, that this loss fell especially on the lower classes of Ireland, who made the potatoes their sole food, some idea might be formed of the immensity of the wretchedness. It was calculated that it would take ten vessels, of five hundred tons each, to arrive in Ireland for three hundred suce.essive days, to provide a sufficient quantity of food for the wants of the people. This, which he believed was not an exaggerated estimate, would afford some idea of the great scarcity of food in Ireland. The Rev. Gentleman then proceeded to detail the distress in different localities in Ireland. In Dublin workhouse, which was cal culated to contain from 1,800 to 2,000 persons, a very few weeks ago, 800 or 900 of them were ill with fever and dysentery, and among the children measles prevailed to an alarming extent. The schools of surgery in Dublin never received so many bodies for dissection as they did recently, which was entirely owing to the famine, and to the inability of the poor to bury their dead. In Waterford Cork, elonmel, Sligo, and other places, the destitution was equally great, and in many places more extreme. Much was said about the great purchase of arms in Ireland, but he accounted fur that from the repeal of the Arms Act last ses sion, and from the feeling of insecurity caused by the desti tution. Besides, the arms were purchased by those who were in comfortable circumstances. The deposit of money in the savings' banks was also brought forward to show that the destitution could not be so extreme. But to all this he would reply, " Look at the Irish newspapers ; see the number of inquests daily reported in them, to each one of which was appended the verdict Died from starvation !'—' Died from starva tion r---‘ Died from starvation !' " He concluded by moving the following resolution :—" That upon the evidence daily received through the public journals, and from private sources, detailing scenes of the utmost destitution, and con tinued deaths from starvation, in Ireland especially, but also in Scotland and even hi our own country, it is the conviction of this meeting that it is desirable to make a more general collection, anti upon a broader basis of appeal, than any dint has yet been made, throughout the length and breadth of the land." The 11ev. Dr. M'LEoD seconded the resolution, and con curred with the Rev. Gentleman who last addressed them, that the state of distress in Scotland could not be compared with that of Ireland. 'The latter he believed to be unpa ralleled. In the Western Isles, however, the destitution was of the must painful kind. Ile could speak of instances where the fountain of nature was dried up at the mother's breast. Ile could speak of instances of a similarly frightful nature, but to an intelligent audience like that before hint, who were in the habit of reading the papers, it was unnecessary. He would, however, state that there was a population of 300,000 suffering from the effects of the scarcity, and that there were 150,000 of this population seven-eighths of whose food consisted entirely of potatoes. The re maining 150,030 did not live entirely on potatoes; they lived a little above the others, but the failure lied affected them greatly, and they would be in as poor and in as deetitito3 condition as the others in a few months. They would have no seed to put into the ground in sprir.g time, and unless relief were given to them, the scarcity, next year, would Le es great. and the whole fabric ot' society would totter to the ground. He did not believe that the helpless condition of the people was owieg to the landlords, but to the circumstance of the annihilation of the kelp manu facture, which was carrie d on to a great extent in the islands, and which was altogether destroyed by a late legislative enactment. It was, therefore, by no reckless negligence of the proprietors that this inability of the people to sustain themselves, under the present calamity, was attributable, but to the cause to which he referred, as also to the land being turned into pasturage, and to the popu lation being driven out to make way for the graziers. It was due, however, to the proprietors to state that, with onduct on the present occasion was tre'fitininTs e . ir l. twas money tent to Scotland on goon security, every penny of which, principal and interest, mast be repaid. The Reverend Gentleman concluded by making a powerful appeal to the feelings of the meeting, and hoped that they would respond to the call now made upon them. The Rev. Dr. LEIFCHILD supported the resolution, and while lie concurred with the 11ev. Gentleman who had just addressed them as to the state of Scotland and Ireland, he was bound to state that they had at home among themselves a large population who were houselese, penniless, and desti tute. The calamity was universal. There was not a country exempt from the visitation, and this feature made him say that it was unparalleled in extent if not in severity. The present association had no poison of sectarianism vitiating the milk of human kindness in its com position. It was constituted of ministers and laymen of various religious denominations, and this circumstance in- i vested it with a claim on the charity of the public, which lie hoped would be responded to. If there was any one who might be disposed to confine his bounty to the "household of the faith," he would tell him that this was net sanctioned by scriptural authority, for the Churches of the Gentile came to the rescue when the poor of Judea were visited with afflic tion. The man who °tiered a briLe to a poor man to become one of his religion insulted alike the sanctity of religion and the human mind. There was enough for all if it was fairly distributed, for God did not bring people into the world without providing for their wants. Avarice, however, destroyed his benevolent intentions, and begot the hag beggary, which brought up theft from the bottomless pit. He could not help admiring the resignation with which the poor bore their woes and refrained from turbulence; and be fore he sat down he must express his satisfaction with the Government of the country for the exertions they made to meet the emergency. The resolution was then put to the meeting, and carried unanimously. Mr. FOSTER, son of Mr. Foster, of Norwich (both of whom lately travelled through Ireland), then addressed the meeting. He visited Westport, in the county of Mayo, and the state of the people could not be realised by the imagination — personal inspection would be necessary to convince one of the reality. The town appeared to be one large pauper house, crowded like a fair. He never saw such an assemblage of wretched starved creatures. The men were worn down to the skin and bone—were living skeletons—and the women were pale and livid, with the dark mark of famine round their eyes.—(Sensation.) On the public works there was not more than one out of every 12 of the destitute employed. In Connemara also the distress was equally great, and in one village the scarcity was so great that he could not get a single pound of meal in the whole place, and there was not a store within a distance of from 20 to 30 miles.—(Sensation.) Four cases of death had occurred there within the two days previously, and he himself was obliged to supply some of the poor creatures from the hotel at which he was residing. The emphatic way in which the poor people of Ireland spoke of the calamity was, that the famine is upon us." He would conclude by urging on the ladies to provide clothing for the naked creatures whose euffer ings from famine were greatly aggravated by the present in clement season. He would propose the following resolution : " That whereas her Majesty has called upon the ministers of the Established Church to make collections in their respec tive parishes, so also Dissenting ministers of all denomina tions be requested (if they have not already done so) to use their legitimate power of appeal to their congregations upon the subject as early as possible, or simultaneously with the day fixed for the Queen's Letter to be read, 21st February. Thus a general voluntary effort will be made by the whole nation in mitigation of the awful calamity. And further, that such ministers be requested to report to the United Belief Association (at 40, Leicester-square) the fact of their having made such collection, as well as those that purpose so appealing to their congregations, in order that the same being announced in the public papers, may stimulate other ministers and congregations to adopt the same course." The Rev. A. KING seconded the resolution, and detailed several instances of the horrifying effects of the famine. In one instance a family had nothing to subsist on but the car case of a dead horse, and the poor creatures exclaimed, " What, under God, would become of them when the horse flesh should be finished?—(Sensation.) In several cases the dead were not interred, owing to the debility of the survivors. In one district it was computed that one-fifth of the popula tion would be carried oft: And an instance had occurred there where the limbs of dead bodies were obtruding above ground, the poor creatures not having strength sufficient to cover them with clay.—(Sensation.) The Rev. THOMAS JAMES supported the resolution, which was then put to the meeting, and carried unanimously. _ The following donations were then announced :—Luke J. Hansard. Esq., 150 guineas ; C. Cochrane, Esq.. 60 guineas ; G urney, Esq.4so/. ; Sir E. Buxton, 20/. ; Rev. A. Maugin , z 'leas; with several others of a smaller amount. S. h . e r ,,m__ot i !o s n of CuARLas CGCHRANE, Eaq., seconded by Rev. et 7 eart N l v ie li (Cork), and supported by the Rev. O. —.That a followingplain resolution was unanimously carried and forcible statement of the extreme wretchedness and destitution be drawn up, embodying the substance of the account giy tl en by the deputations that have u addressed this m ee ti ng, other needful inf o rmation, an d that the same be forwarded to i the clergy an d t o t h e minis ters of ell denominations, in order to impress them with the urgency ofthe case, and th at the etsame be for war d e d a l so to ' ies literary institutions, all public companies, joint-stock societies charitable societies, lecturers, n may have it in their power to promote the benevol e nt , persons who public coll ec ti on. A n d that, notwithstanding the benevolent dispoeition ev i nc ed by, the Government of this country,. and the gene rosityaer ...ajesty, and several branches Friends, ba aril many of r exhibited by m the j-toyal Family , b y the Society of benevo l en t individuals, the exigence of the present dislr t,' s is so great, and the hope of its curly mitigati on so f a i nt, that the r e appears a neces sit y for the committee (appointed at the late conference of clergy men and iniiiisterson the 13th ult.) continuing their rem edial exertions as the United Relief Association ; and that it is the settee of this meeting that the administration of the funds collected by the public appeal may be confided (if the contributors shall so approve) to the said committee, and their treasurer, as trustees, who, while they admit the sadly pre-eminent claim of lrelandand parts of Scotland upon the g enerous charity of theßritish public, would appropriate a portion also for the destitute in England, and who resolve that their distribution shall in all cases be conducted on unsectarian principles." The meeting then separated. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 1841. LONDON AND COUNTY JOINT- - STOCK BANK. The annual meeting of the proprietors of shares in this company was yesterday held at the London Tavern, Bishops gate-street, for the purpose of receiving the report of the di rectors, a declaration of the dividend for the past year, and the re-election of three directors in the room of those who retired by rotation, and also for the election of an auditor in the room of Mr. Barret, who had retired on account of ill health. The meeting was numerously attended, and the chair was taken by W. Hawes, Esq. The SECRETARY having read the advertisement convening the meeting, The CHAIRMAN said that it was his pleasing duty to inform the meeting of the very favourable state of the affairs of the company, and of the success which had attended the efforts of the directors in the exercise of the discretion vested in them, and that the affairs of the company, whether he looked at the number of customers, or the balance of their accounts in the hands of the bank, were of the most en couraging nature. The reserve fund amounted to the sum of 26,000/., an amount fully equal to the proportion of the capital of other banks, amounting to 11 per cent. The reserve fund of the London and West minster Bank was 11 per cent. on their capital. eLondon Joint-Stock was 10 per cent., and the Union Bank per cent. It was impossible, however, not to see that there ould be some difficulty is the monetary matters of this me ropolis in the course of a few months. Itlwas only by fore seeing these difficulties, and carefully providing for such con tingencies, that those difficulties are to be met and over tome. Beginning with the Bank of England, and down to all the other joint-stock banks, he believed that all of them were carefully preparing to meet the drain arising from the extraor dinary demand, which was likely to be made in order to obtain a supply of food for this country and Ireland, and he thought that the proprietors might look forward with confidence, that in the time of pressure and high rate of interest no difficulty would be found among the banking interest of the metropolis. It was confidently considered that there were ample means to meet all the engagements which were likely to arise, in consequence of an increased demand for accommodation to meet the perhaps unfair exportation of bullion which would be required to be sent out of the country. He should be happy to give any further information upon the details of the past year to any gentleman who might require such information. With respect to the loss which the company had sustained in consequence of the retirement of Mr. Barrett, the auditor, on account of ill health ; and he hoped that the gentleman, who would be appointed in his place, would ful fil his duties in as satisfactory and honourable a manner as his predecessor had done. The SECRETARY then read the report of the last half-year, from which it appeared that the directors had received the payment of a dividend of 6 per cent. (free from income-tax) for the half-year ending 31st of December,lB46, and that the surplus of 1,844/. 17s. 7d., remaining after the payment of the dividend, shetild be carried to the credit of the reserved fund of the company, thereby raising it to the sum of 22,2421. Is. 11d., making an increase in the past year in that fund of the sum of 3,958/. 4s. 7d. The report having been unanimously agreed to, it was proposed and carried that a dividend of six per cent. should be declared upon the past year. On the motion of W. JOHNSON, Esq., J. 11. Lance, Esq., was appointed auditor, in the room of Mr. Barret, who had resigned, and also continuing Mr. John Donkyn, the previou auditor, as auditor with him for the ensuing year. Mr. CotAl.mourr proposed, and Mr. Ilrr.t seconded, a reso lution, authorising a sum, not exceeding 2,0001., to be set aside as the remuneration for the services of the directors in the ensuing year, which was also agreed to. A ballot was then taken for the choice of three directors in the room of R. Springbitt, Esq., J. C. Joyner, Esq., and S. Jervis, Esq., who retired by rotation. The same gentlemen were unanimously re-elected. A resolution authorising the sum of 1,8841. 17s. 7d., to be carried to the credit of the reserve fund, was also agreed to. The thanks of the meeting were then given to the direc tors and auditors, for the able manner in which they had performed their duties during the past year. Thanks were also voted to the chairman for the able manner in which he had presided over the meeting. The meeting then broke up. BORDEAUX, TOULOUSE, AND CE I'TE RAILWAY. An adjourned meeting of this company was held yesterday at the London Tavern, to receive the report of a committee appointed at a former meeting to inquire as to the liability of the shareholders to pay two shillings per share, in order to enable the directors to obtain their constituted shares. Mr. David Salomons in the chair; The report of the committee was read, which stated that the shareholders were neither in law or equity liable to pay the demand made upon them. The report was then adopted ; and it was resolved that the shareholders should pay one shilling a share to obtain the constituted shares, and to promote amity among the shareholders. Mr. FIELD then submitted a resolution that the directors be empowered to consider the expediency of abandoning or continuing the undertaking, and to report accordingly to the shareholders, which was agreed to unanimously. The meeting then separated. PETITIONS ON PRIVATE BILLS. HOUSE OF COMMONS. (Room 22, before Mr. Examiner Smarr.) UNOPPOSED LIST. In the following unopposed cases the customary formal proofs were completed, and the standing orders complied with : Caledonian Railway. Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coatbridge Railway (with a Branch to Glasgow) and Station. OPPOSED LIST. MIDLAND RAILWAY (SHEFFIELD, BARNSLEY, DONCASTER AND GOOLE LINE.) This adjourned opposed case was then gone into, and at the close of the inquiry, it was found that the standing orders the country ; the iffiPoAti . on being poglialedlititioTinorrow : Wishaw and Coltness Railway (branches to Auchsnheath, Nrineralfield, and Cauderside), Caledonian (Edinburgh sta tion, &c.), Caledonian (branches from the Clydesdale Junc tion, &c.), Caledonian (extension of the Motherwell branch of Clydesdale Junction, tsc.), Caledonian (branches to Ca nobie, Langho!me, &c.), Caledonian (branch across Clyde and Glasgow station ), Caledonian (lease of part of Glasgow Dumfries and Carlisle Railway). The Examiner rose shortly after four o'clock. (Room 23, before Mr. Examiner Mar.) There were no unopposed cases in the list to-day. CORNWALL AND DEVON CENTRAL RAILWAY.' This adjourned opposed case was resumed. In the course of the day several allegations were sustained. They had re fereace chiefly to defects in the levels, plans, and sections. and inaccuracies in the books of reference. The result of the inquiry is looked forward to with a great deal of interest, the contest being ostensibly between the South-Western and the Great Western Companies. The case was farther adjourned. GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY, ISLE OF AXHOLME EXTENSION. The formal proofs were taken in this opposed case. The Examiner then adjourned till to-morrow at ten o'clock. FLANDERS MAIL. BRUSSELS, FEB. I—The Chamber of Representatives continued, and closed to-day the general debate on the budget of the War Department. A letter from Ysegen of the 30th Jan., says ;—" You may judge' of the di s t ress w hi c h desolates us when you are informed that in 1846, we had 365 deaths, and only 163 births. The typhus fever, it is true, has spread its ravages in our community during the last year, but we must remember that the scourge has arisen from the frightful distress and destitution of the people ; for out of the 365 deaths, no less than 290 were poor. God knows what may be the number carried off in the pre sent year, but this day on which we write, the 22d Jan., we have already had 32 deaths, and among these 28 are paupers. ' At the close of the year 1846, the population of War saw amounted to 165,130 inhabitants, of these 1,527 be longed to the Greek Church, 107,962 to the Roman Ca tholic religion, 150 to the United Greeks, 44,394 to the Protestant religion, and 33,149 to the Jewish religion. DUKEDOM OF LinrE.—On the 27th January the As sembly of the States was opened, with the usual cere monies. The first act of the Assembly was, the vote of a large sum to meet the prevailing distress among the poor. COURTRAI, 29T11 JAN.—Yesterday, we had a most fearful storm, accompanied by a heavy fall of rain and hail, which occasioned great destruction in Courtrai, and Ruilers. Trees were torn up by the roots, mills de stroyed, chimneys thrown down, and houses unroofed. It is very remarkable that, notwithstanding all the dam age occasioned in different parts, not a single life has been lost. A miller who was engaged in a mill in the hamlet of Samoye, escaped with his life, although the mill was completely destroyed. He however received several contusions. FOOD RIOTS IN THE NORTH—MILITARY MOVE MENTIL—The outbreaks which have recently occurred in se veral of the northern counties, has led to the departure of a large body/ of troops from this city, in order to aid the local authorities in preserving peace. On Thursday morning a de tachment of eighty men of the 76th Regiment marched from the Castle to Granton Pier, where they embarked on board the steamer for Aberdeen ; and on the following day other fifty men of the same corps, under Captain Dennis, left Granton, per steamer, for the same destination. In addition to the above, another 100 men of the 76th embarked on Sunday morning on board the Bonnie Dundee steamer, for Burghead, under the command of Brevet-Major Scott, with Captain Flannaghan and Lieutenant Large. Yesterday afternoon eighty men of the 74th arrived, per railway, 'from Glasgow, to take a share in the duties at the Castle during the absence of the other detachments from the 76th—Edin burgh Advertiser. SWITZERLAND.—It will be remembered that one of the first acts of the provisional government of Geneva, after the late revolution, was to declare that it would hold the members of the last council responsibe for all the damage caused by the troops in the attempt to resist the insurrection. The amount of damage having been estimated at 42,000 f., the members of the late council were ordered to pay it. They refused, on the ground that their conduct in the insur rection was imposed upon them by the law for the preserva tion of public order; but a decree having been obtained from the tribunal for immediate payment, they yielded to force, and paid the money. A few days ago several of the citizens of Geneva held a meeting for the purpose of raising a sub scription to repay the sum thus unjustly wrung from the members of the late government. The latter, however, have, in an address to their fellow-citizens thanking them fur their sympathy, declined receiving the proposed reimbursement. An operation, preceded by the inhalation of ether was performed on Saturday, at the military hospital of the Val-de-Grace, on a non-commissioned officer, named Gefline, who conducted himself with so much bravery in Africa, taking a standard, although wounded in several places, and offering . own home to a dismounted officer. The amputa beurte d. declared uwttheznditpwlaaitsitoiNv. t n ion nis o t f an arm having become necessary, the ether was ad ctriiieast hduringthe felt n o o pens lie had, he said, plaintive cries dreaming that he was about to be amputated, but clad felt a scratching. (This no sensation except something like foroeveral hours afterwa' the action of the saw.) Getline was ether, like a man who thelx operation under the effect of the On the following day td become intoxicated by drinking. Galignani. he complainedof a violent headache.— A black hare was lately shot i ham ; it was full-grown, and n the p ar i s h of theDen fur black. was the fi nes t g l ossy . . . The Lord. Advocate of Scotland had an interview ;ester day with the Eight lion. T. Milner Gibson. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 4. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack shortly after Five o'clock. POOR REMOVAL ACT. The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions from several places in Sussex against the Poor Removal Act, the inhabitants of which believed that it was a hardship to the poor, and calculated to increase the poor-rates. Lord BEAUMONT thought that an observationought to be made on these petitions. It was a mistake to sup pose that this Act was a hardship on the poor; for it only provided for the removal of the poor. It might, indeed, increase the poor -rates, but that was an evil which would work its own remedy; for if the landlords pulled down cottages, they would be obliged to build them up again when they wanted labourers, as no man could travel more than a certain distance to his work. The Bill might have been clumsily drawn, but its real effect was to prevent the removal of the poor without their own consent. The Duke of RICHMOND quite agreed with his Noble Friend in the latter part of his observations, viz., that this Act was clumsily drawn, for he believed that no two lawyers in England agreed in the con struction of the Act. But with respect to the hardship which it occasioned to the poor he totally differed, for he believed that the Act had been productive of the greatest hardship to the labouring poor, especially to those aged couples who had borne a good character through life; for it had in those cases tended to reduce that out-door relief to which they were from their circumstances entitled. And if the Govern• ment would grant him a commission he would engage to prove that in innumerable instances the Act had in that way particularly been productive of the greatest hardships. The great body of the people of the country were at present against union settlements, and he participated in that feeling. He would much regret the passing of the measure, as great evils would arise out of it. Nothing was so bad to the poor as continually changing the character of the poor-laws. He had no objection to the amendment of the harsh parts of the poor-law, but he did not think the proposed new law of settlement of such a character. Lord BEAUMONT agreed with the Noble Duke that the proposed law of settlement would operate un satisfactorily. Lord BROUGHAM also agreed with the Noble Dnke, that whatever was found in the law to be unsatisfactory should be amended. He would not do so from a desire to propitiate clar.;our, or because it was unpopular, for a clamour might be got up against anythng, but because experience proved that the alteration was merited. While on this subject, he begged leave to correct an error into which he had been led by an esteemed cor respondent, whom he had always hitherto found correct. Having made the error the other evening in a statement he (Lord Brougham) had made respecting pauperism in Liverpool, he now took the earliest opportunity of correcting it. He had stated that those who es tablished the soup kitchens in that town had stopped the supplies on Sunday to the poor. It appears that this was not correct; no such distinction, it appears, was made. He was exceedingly loath to say anything of those who were engaged in the pious work of charity, though he had received another communication from Glasgow, about which there could be no mistake. The letter contained a soup kitchen ticket, on which was printed that the bearer might be supplied on any day but Sunday. The same spirit was shown on a recent occasion, when a most extensive fire occurred in Glasgow. The fire took place on a Sunday, and the Stamp-office, which adjoined, was in danger of being destroyed, yet no assistance could he got from Edinburgh, because the rail way was shut up on that day; the proprietor of the building also lived in Edinburgh, and though his presence was imperatively required in Glasgow, it was impossible for him to get through. The mail train departed with the mail bags, for the con veyance of which the railway company received so much a year, but the directors of that railway most positively refused to allow a messenger to go with the train to summon the owner of the burning premises to come to Glasgow. And it was because he saw charity thus tainted with fanaticism (for not to attend to works of charity, necessity, and mercy, was fa natacisin in the highest degree) that ho was induced to speak to their Lordships on the subject. The Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington) might just as well be blamed for having fought his glorious battle of Waterloo, Juno the 18th, which was Sunday. Per• haps, however, the Noble Duke was not aware of the fact of its being Sunday, or he would., no doubt, have deferred giving the French battle until another day.— (Laughter.) With respect to the immense influx of Irish paupers into Liverpool, he held in his hand a statement which showed that 3,841 persons came into that port in two days. The number of persons who landed in Liverpool from Cork, was Sligo Drogheda Newry Dublin ... 272 ... 911 and these in two days. It was a most serious affair, and 1 imposed great hardship upon the people of Liverpool. Ile would suggest to the Government the propriety and necessity of taking into consideration the state of the English as well as the Irish poor. lie knew it had been said by some persons, " that the Irish people had no need to despair so long as there was a single guinea c. ;•-• rho ii',nalish Treasury." He totally dissented cheap rate. That would be the worst possible thing that could be done. In a time of scarcity, the greatest blessing that could happen was for the prices of grain to rise considerably, because it always pro duced a tendency to r frugality and economy. The result of cheapness in a time of dearth was to con vert dearth into scarcity, and scarcity into the most aggravated forms of famine. It gave him great pain to renew these observations, but he confessed he did so because they were not attended to. It was far from a pleasant task to utter harsh truths, but unless he did so he should not discharge his duty to the public. He deprecated the mania that was gaining ground that the revenue must yield relief to the Irish poor and to Irish landlords. If such a system was persisted in, this year would be one of comparative prosperity com pared to its successors. Messengers from the Commons brought up several Bills and returns. CHELSEA PENSIONERS. The Duke of WELLINGTON proposed the first reading of this Bill. In doing so, he said it was not his intention to address any observations to their Lordships on the subject, except that the Bill was intended to abolish the poundage heretofore deducted from the pensions of those gallant men—the Chelsea pensioners— and consequently to promote their welfare and interests. The Bill was read a first time. POOR-LAW. Lord DENMAN presented a petition from a parish in Derbyshire complaining of the present poor-laws, and praying for its immediate amendment, particularly that the poor ought to be supported by the public. PRICE OF FOOD IN IRELAND. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from the mayor, aldermen, and burgesses of Cork, pray ing their Lordships to cause measures to be taken to diminish the price of food in that county. He begged to state that he entirely concurred with the observation of his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Brougham) with respect to tho impolicy of creating an artificial dimunition of the prices of food. He could mention several places where this reduction of prices had led to the most grievous scarcity; the week following that in which such reductions were made, as the shopkeepers refused to sell their commodities at the reduced prices, the adjoin ing farmers discontinued to send into the towns the usual supplies. It was the duty of the Government to remove all obstructions to the supply of food, and they had, therefore, done all in their power to carry supplies of food to those places which were not easily accessible. ANTICIPATED SCARCITY IN THIS COUNTRY. The Duke of RICHMOND—I think it is desirable that it should not go forth to the whole of the country, that there is likely to be a great dearth of provisions in this country. It is said, in many parts of England that there will be a scarcity of corn, and that all the evils of a famine may be apprehended. Now, I believe that that is not the case, as I believe that there is a great deal of corn in the hands of persons in this country. Besides, when, coupled with this, we see such large imports of grain from the United States, there is little reason for the people to consider that this country will have to encounter a famine. I, c o mo rd ronst ß m ß esre O enh U sae G nlet il sss A as M was understood to say that for one, have n o appre h ension of a famine here.—(Hear.) t clamour e h r y a d i n b j u e e n n . u raised o a n g s i n ins the th e L stead of being represented as they really were; and if this clamour were to be continued it must be productive of great mischief. Earl FITZWILLIAM had not the slightest 'doubt but that the supply of wheat, both in England Ireland, was insufficient for those who were consumers of wheat. This would necessarily be absorbed, and certainly the finer qualities of wheat would be scarce, and, perhaps, there might be a scarcity in the secondary qualities also; but he was anxious to correct one mistake which might be injurious out of doors. That was the impression created by the words of hi s Noble and Learned Friend, and he was anxious to cor. rest the notion that the people of England were suffer ing anything like the same destitution as that which is experienced in Ireland. The people of Ireland were not consumers of wheat, but of other produce; and as the potato crop had totally failed, the want was not only felt in Ireland, but there was absolute destitution. This was a notion which he earnestly desired to correct, for if it wore not corrected, it might lead to a relaxation of those efforts which were indispensable to relieve the Irish people from starvation. Lord BROUGHAM was anxious to explain that he had never entertained the idea that the destitution in England was in any degree equal to that in Ireland. When he made the observations to which his Noble Friend referred he had in his eye Glasgow, Liverpool, and Bristol, the ports on the western coast, where a scarcity of corn had been severely felt. The point which he desired to bring under their Lordships' notice was the fact, that while great exertions had been made for the relief of Ireland nothing of anything like the same effot t had been manifested for the poor of Scotland and England. He found no fault with the contributions that had been made for the sufferiag poor in Ireland. In his opinion it did the people of this country great honour, for all classes bad equally exerted them selves to succour those whom ho would call their fellow countrymen, and among the most active was that amia ble, that excellent body, the Society of Friends, who, although only a small community, had contributed the munificent sum of 30,000/. They kept their charities in .their own hands, and for a society of their extent this was truly munificent ; and he trusted that this efficient aid would be continued until the distress had passed by. What he meant to say was that the Government could not prevent the famine; and he never desired to assert that the distress suffered by the poor in this country was at all equal to that which was to be met with in Ireland. REDUCTION OF THE DUTY ON RUM. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from the landed proprietors, farmers, and other persons inte rested in the agriculture of the :county of Cermarthen, against the proposed reduction of the duty on rem. Also, a petition from a place in Scotland, the name of which did not reach the gallery, to the same effect. The Noble Duke hoped the Government would not press any measure of a permanent nature until the parties interested had been heard against the proposition. This was but just to them, as they complained of being taken by surprise by the measure introduced by the Government. He felt certain that if the reduction in the rum duty was made it would only cause greater exertion to be made for the repeal of the malt-tax. THE SUPPRESSION OF CRACOW. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table certain papers, which he stated had been delayed in order that they might be laid complete on the table of the House. They were the last of the series relating to the annexation of Cracow to the Austrian empire, and con tinued the correspondence with the Austrian Government on that subject. He also, by the command of her Majesty, laid on the table of the House the first annual report of the Board of Supervision of the Poor-laws in Scotland. The House then adjourned at Six o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 4. The SPEALES took the Chair at Four o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. PRIME took the oaths and his seat for West Sussex, in the place of Colonel Wyndham. STANDING ORDERS. _ _ Mr. STRUTT proposed alterations i n s t an din g order No. 13, so as to assimilate the proof of the standing orders by affidavit, in Scotland, to that which is required in the case of Ireland, under standing order No. 14. Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT conceived that this would be an alteration of great service in removing an incon venience that had been felt in the Committee of Private Bills. Mr. ESTCOURT explained that this alteration was intended to be made last session, and it was only through a mistake that it did not appear at that time. RE TFORD UNION. Mr. GODSON presented a petition from the guar dians of this union, praying that a correspondence between themselves and the Poor-law Commissioners, relative to the expense which had been incurred in the provision of the Christmas dinner of the paupers, which expense had been uniformly allowed from the year 1835, when the union was formed, to the year 1844, but in the present instance the auditor of the district had disallowed the outlay. TEN HOURS' BILL. Lord JOHN MANNERS and Mr. WAKLRY presented petitions from Huddersfield and other places in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill. HARBOUR CONSERVANCY. Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from Lon donderry for the repeal of Ow Harbour Conservancy Act. POOR REMOVAL ACT. the right to bear the exclusive blame and the whole re sponsibility of it. It was not his intention to make any very leggthened preface, or to enter into a general dis cussion as regarded the state and condition of Ireland ; suffice it for him that there was a great class at that moment in that country, amounting to 500,000 able bodied persons, existing on the funds of the State ; there were 500,000 able-bodied persons, com manded by a staff of 11,589 persons and employed upon works which had been variously de scribed as works worse than useless; by the yeomanry of Ulster, as works producing no public good ; and by the Government inspector himself, as works which could answer no other principle but to employ the people. It was true that a great calamity was over coming Ireland, but at the same time he could not look with anything like despondency upon the pre sent state of the country. In former times this had risen from difficulties heavier than these, and they ought not to be appalled at the present calamity. In a period of war they were enabled to expend upon an average of forty years one hundred and three millions a year ; and they ought not to be downhearted at having to pro vide for a deficiency which was estimated at ten mil lions. —(Hear, hear.) He expected with confident hope that good would arise eut of the evil ; and, so far from lying down and weeping over their misfortuncs, like children lost in a wood, they ought to look the difficulties fairly in the face, and be resolved and de termined to overcome them. He could not forget that England had had her bad days as well as Ireland ; that they had known the time when the counties of England were ravaged by the fires of incendiaries ; that they had seen England in a time when the Sovereign dare not go to his own city of London. He could not forget, that in later times, so little while ago as the year 1842, the parish rates of England supported 1,437,000 persons, of whom no less than 83,0001:were young, able bodied men, who were actually confined within the walls of the workhouse, and 47,000 able bodied labourers were sustained by the parish. Well, then, it appeared to him that when they came to estimate the situation of Ireland, and compare it with that of England, there was not so great a difference be tween Ireland at the present time and Eng land in 1842, and they should not despair of overcoming their difficulties. The years 1841 and 1842, then, being periods of great distress and great difficulty, what had occurred to change the face of affairs since then in this country—to prevent Government from meeting the distress as then, and restoring the kingdom to the most prosperous and affluent condition that ever was known? He was aware that there were many who ascribed all this im provement and prosperity to the operation of those measures of free trade which were commenced in 1842; and that, by the reduction of one-sixteenth of a penny the introduction of some tons of sugar, and the free admission of feathers was the sole cause of the prosperity which they were now enjoying. But he for one was more disposed to ascribe it to the railway enterprise which arose about that period of their history. When they recollected that in the last three or four years about thirteen millions had been spent in the construction of railways, and besides, as he could state on the authority of the reports of the Committees of that House, that 200,000 able bodied labourers received employment at twenty-two shillings a week, which had been culled from the workhouses, and parishes—he thought he had certainly discovered the more correct cause for the change which had come over the circumstances of this country. But this he might say, that there had been no inquiry by Parliament made in which the result has not been the recommendation that the difficulties in Ireland should be sought to be overcome by the stimulation of the employment of the people.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 1836 there was a commission appointed by her Majesty's Government to inquire into the advan tages of a system of railway communication in Ireland. The result of that inquiry, made by those able commis sioners, was a report recommending that a system of rail ways should be carried out, and that it should be done by the assistance of the Government—(Hear, hear.) He woald not tire the House by travelling over the beaten ground or repeating the reasons on which that able Report was made, or inform it of the perfect success which had attended every grant by Parliament for the improvement of roads in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) That report was followed up by another—the report of Lord Devon's Commission, which stated that it was the opinion of the commissionett that assistance by way of loan from Government for railways was the best means for finding employment for the people. This led him to the consideration of the existing state of railway enterprise in Ireland, and he found that there had been passed Acts of Parliament for 1,522 miles of railway, and although some of these Acts have passed so long since as eleven years ago, 123 miles of railway have alone been completed, and 164 more are only in course of completion in the present year. This must prove to the House that there is some weakness, some debility in Ireland, which prevents them from carrying out those enterprises which in England and Scotland caused the completion of 2,600 miles of railway, and had caused new Acts to be passed for 4,600 miles more. Was it the circumstances of Leland, or the state of the population, which made hers a condition not likely to prove advantageous to railway speculators?—far from it. A report for which he was indebted to Mr. Stephenson, said that the popu lation of Ireland and the population of England and Wales were, as nearly as possible, on a par. In Eng land it appeared, taking the census of the year 1841, there are, for every two acres and a bit, one individual of population, whilst in Ireland u55,...- s -ssma-ti,,___ernennls to one for every 21 there were 7,000 acres of waste bogs, and ilso — large quantities of water in Ireland, taken into consideration, and therefore, if they were to compare the cultivated acres of England and Wales with the cultivated acres of Ireland, they would find that the balance was in favour of that conntry, and that Ireland was more densely in ' habited than England and Wales. Now, perhaps, they would tell him that this might be a very good argument, as far as population was concerned, but what was the use of the population if they had no money to pay for their conveyances by railway. His Right Honourable Friend who sat beside him would tell them, that in all railway speculations population I was held to be the first element of success and if they told him that the population of Ireland were incapable of travelling from want of means, he must answer them with the fact that it was not so.—(A laugh.) For by a return which he had there, and for which he was indebted to the industry , of Mr. Laing, he found by comparison that the number of passengers who travelled by the Irish railways, as compared with the number of those who travelled either by the English or Scotch railways, far exceeded them in number. The House might be surprised, but the fact was that whilst on the Scotch and English rail ways the average number of passengers travelling every month was about 11,800, on a railway in Ulster the number travelling was no less than 21,700, and on the Drogheda and Dublin Railway the number of passengers was 18,000 per mile. But he would take these two lines which were completed, one of which, the Ulster Railway, might be taken in Ireland as the London and Birmingham of England, and he would compare the number of their passengers with that of the London and Birmingham line. By the two former the number of passengers per mile, for one year, was 1,111,000, and by the latter, 1,108,000, the former being only fifty-six miles in length, while the latter was double that distance. This he thought gave a flat denial to the argument of Irish railways being a ruinous speculation. He might be asked, then, why it was that speculators did not come into the market to stimulate railway enterprise? He was unable to. answer the question, but the fact was as he stated. There was a feeling of distrust and ignoraace, he feared, as to the condition of the country, which prevented English capital from being embarked in these undertakings. Of the Great Southern and Western Railway 56 miles had been completed, and as yet it had only opened for passengers. Of the North British Railway and its branches 72 miles bad been completed, which were partially opened for traffic as well as passengers. Well, the result was, that the traffic per week of the Great Southern and Western Railway in the last week was 1,0281. on 56 miles of railway, while on the North British Railway, which cost 26,3001. per mile, against 15,0001. per mile, the cost of the Great Southern and Western Railway, the amount of traffic exceeded that of the Great Southern and Western only by 339/. per week. Yet so opposed to all principles of common sense were the feelings of capitalists as regarded public works in Ireland, that the Great Southern and Western, which was undoubtedly the most profitable concern, was at 2i per cent. discount in the money market, while the worst railways were at 40 per cent. premium.—(Hear, hear.) Well, he had shown that there was a som e thi ng o f f as hi on , an d some thing in want of confidence, which occasioned the un willingness of the English capitalists to invest their moneys in Irish railways. But if they looked to this part of the question, they must recollect that most of the railway proprietors in Ireland were the landlords and tenants in that country, and that the very calamity which now impoverished and afflicted that country furnished the very reason why those proprietors should not be able to meet their calls; and the consequence was that sense of the best speculations in Ireland were now what was called "stuck fast" for want of money. He would take the railways in the southern part of Ireland, and read from a report which he had received from two gen tlemen, two engineers, who had been travelling in Ireland for the purpose of this very question of Irish railways. They said that one of the railways, of which Cork was one of the termini, and which was sixty-five miles long, would be commenced when they received funds to enable them to go on with it. They stated that the branch to Limerick, which was twenty-five miles long, would be be - gun when the necessary funds were obtained, and that the opening of the whole line to Tipperary would depend also upon the supply of money. The Kilkenny Junc tion, which was forty-five miles in length, and which had passed the House, was also stopped for want of money. The Cork and Fermoy was stopped for a similar reason. And a portion of the Limerick and Waterford was similarly circuumstanced; so was the Cork and Bandon; so it was with the Cork and Waterford. This made in the whole 2291 miles of railway stopped in Ireland for the want of funds. On the Dublin and Mullingar 3,011 persons were employed, but if the company bad more money, a greater number might be put on.—(Hear, hear.) The reason this money was not forthcoming was, because capitalists in this country mistrusted Irish lines, and the propOsition he had to make was that Government should do away with that mistrust. The proposition he had to make to the House was :this: that for every 100 L properly ex pended upon railways, Government shonid guarantee three and a half per cent. This was less than had heretofore been paid for money, and no doubt he should be met with arguments against the insuffi ciency of the security, but with the indulgence of the House he should be able to show that with the restric tions he should propose the security would be amply . Mr. B. DENISON presented a petition from Doncas :er against the Poor Removal Act. Colonel T. WOOD presented a similar petition from :he Bradford Union. TAXES. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from a police man named Webb, stating that he had, unfortunately for himself and his creditors, been sixteen years in debt, but that during the whole time he had bee❑ paying in direct taxes, and during the last five years direct taxes. He prayed that he and all other Englishmen who were in debt should be relieved from taxation. He prayed the louse to take the subject into consideration, and be lieved that the House would grant his petition. TEN HOURS' BILL. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL presented petitions from several places in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill. THE RAJA OF SATTARA. Sir DE LACY EVANS presented a petition from a public meeting of the inhabitants of the city of West minster, praying for an inquiry into the circumstances which had led to the dethronement of the Raja of Sattara. IMPORTATION OF CORN. Dr. BOWRING rose to call the attention of the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs to the report, that a quantity of corn bound for this country had been detained at Ancona by an order of the Pope. CRACOW. Mr. lIUME gave notice of his intention to bring under the consideration of the House, on an early day, the recent proceedings relating to the suppression of the republic of Cracow. THE WINDOW-TAX. Lord DUNCAN gave notice that he would, on an early day, bring forward a motion fur the repeal of the window-tax. XbiERDMENT OF THE REFORM ACT. Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE postponed his motion for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the rate-paying clauses of the Reform Act till that day fortnight. tnat day AMENDMENT OF RAILWAY ACTS. Mr. STRUTT gave notice that, on Tuesday next, he fnr i Itye u ts i it tit l , l „ .. to amend the Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN postponed till that day fort night his motion relating to an absentee tax for Ireland. IRISH DISTRESS. Mr. DANIEL O'CALLAGHAN presented a petition from the Corporation of Cork, praying the House to adopt some speedy measures in order to stop the spread of disease in Ireland, consequent upon the distress of that country. ENFRANCHISEMENT OF COPYHOLDS. Mr. AGLIONBY wished to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Government whether he would allow him, so coon as the present press of Irish business was over, to ask him what course the Government meant to pursue with respect to the enfranchisement of copyholds, and whether it was the intention of the Government to carry into effect the recommendation of the Select Com mittee, that under certain regulations the enfranchise ment of copyholds should be rendered compulsory? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he would be quite ready to answer any question of the Hon. Member upon the subject next week. B t ß h l e EN Noh s t le at L ed ordtha at t, th u e po h n eat ani of f a t r h ly e day, Mr. AGLIONB Y sai d he would take the opportunity ne xt week of putting a question upon the subject. IRISH. COLLEGES. 3rr. G o vernment what c ourse they had taken, or intended t o t a ke, upon the su b j ect o f Irish colleges. He believed, that at present , th e p reli minary works had h a d no t even comm enced. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the subject had occu pied considera ble attention on the part of the Govern ,l; e S M would irri ask O' Govern ment. His Hon. Friend the Secretary. for Ireland had devoted considerable time to the consideration of the subject. He (Lord J. Russell) hoped that the difficulties which had stood in the way of the progress of the col. leges would be shortly removed. He could not at presen t state the arrangements which h a d b een made, as they were not yet completed. When however, they were finally resolved upon, he would be ready to answer any questions of the Hon. Member. CHARITABLE TRUSTS. Mr. HUME said that, to-morrow, he would ask the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government, what course the Government intended to pursue with respect to a Bill for the regulation of charitles.l TEN HOURS BI LL. Mr. BERNAL presented a petition in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill. POOR REMOVAL BILL. Mr. BANKES wished a reply to the following ques tion from the Attorney-General :—Whether he had any objection to produce the opinion which he gave to the Poor-law Commissioners on the subject of the Poor Removal Bill of last session ? The ATTORNEY -GENERAL felt indebted to his Hon. Friend for having given him notice of the question which he intended to put. In so far as he was per sonally concerned, he should have no objection, if he had the option to produce it. It was not in his posses sion, and he could not furnish him with the purport of it from recollection. He believed , however, it was not the practice in that House, or elsewhere, to call for the production of the opinions of counsel.—(Hear, hear, from Sir James Graham.) He had no control over the opinion after it was given.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BANKES then gave notice that, to-morrow, he should move for the productio n of the opinion of the Poor-law Commissioner in who se possession it was. RAILWAYS IN IRELAND. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK, in rising to move for leave to bring in a Bill to stimulate the prompt and pro fitable employment of the people by the encouragement of railways in Ireland, said, that although he had often experienced the undeserved and kind encouragement of that House on former occasions, still he had never felt that he so much needed it as on the present occa sion, when, for the first time, he was going to introduce a measure in which the interests of his country were deeply concerned. It was not that he felt any want of confidence in the intrinsic matter of the measure which he was going to introduce to the House, for in that he had the fullest confidence--but it was because he feared that the feebleness of the advocate should mar a measure, the success of which must mainly depend on its practical machinery a mea sure which had been considered with careful and anxious solicitude by men far superior in intellect to himself,—a measure which had been prepared by m en the value of whose time would have been counted by minutes. When he said that his Hon. Friend the Lord Mayor of York, and Mr. Robt. Stephenson, and Mr. Laing had devoted their time entirely to the preparation of this measure, he thought the House would think with him that there had been the soundest and mo s t p ower f u l un d ers t an dings applied to the consi deration of this question, affecting railways in Ireland • but w hil e h e said t h at his - Honourable Friend s were entitled to all the praise and all the merits that might be found in the measure, he would add that, if on the co n t rary, t h ere was that i n it s principles whi c h was hostile to the constitution of this country — if there was anything in its details which was injurious to the industry of the country—if the measure was so bad that it was not entitled even to a hearing in that House—if it deserved to h e condemne d t h ere , h e wou ld a d m it, that for all that was b a d i n i ts pr i nc ipl es h e al one was re sponsible. It wa s hi s pr i v il ege , as l ea d er o f th e p ar ty with which he was connected, to claim for himself sufficient. There sat beside him a gentleman who ' mission. In introducing this measure to the House, it was chairman of the management of 1,700 miles of was not his wish to bring it forward with any hostile railway, who had the conduct of 45,000,0001., and view towards the Government, and he had hoped he aas prepared to pledge his commercial that the Ncble Lord and the Government would character that Government could not lose one single take consideration of it in the same spirit as if they farthing by this proposition. The Right Hon. Gentleman were a great re-elected Committee appointed to consider the Lord Mayor of York would tell the House that the and decide upon the question. The idea of the Bill ode worst railway under hie direction would afford 7 per cent. ginated as far back as September last, at the house of security to Government; and he himself would be pre- his Hon. Friend Sir John Tyrrell, and the Bill itself pared to show that the worst railway in Belgium or Scot- was drawn up as far back as November last, but no notice land would amply pay for the money expended on them. of the Bill was given to the protectionist Members of He was now speaking of passenger-traffic. It was here that House, except the Hon. Member for Harwich, who entirely a question of passengers.—(Hear, hear.) Well, was in all their confidences.—(Laughter.) They then, he had said that his proposition was, that Govern- did not consult any Irish Member, or any ment should lend out at interest money at gentlemin connected with the Irish companies , . that rate at which they borrowed. He believed because they thought, as it was a question of that the interest now was 31. 6s. Bd. per cent. calling upon England to grant a large sum of money, it But he would assume it to be 3i per cent. Govern- would be unbecoming to submit it to any jury except ment were to take the security on the entire loan that House. He trusted, however, that Irish Members There would then be 71. on 2001. The line that paid would not think that he had exercised any slighting disc 2/. 6s. Bd. per cent. would afford for the interest of cretion when he forbore to consult with them before Government. He would show this from the Ar in troducing this measure to the House. He felt, amongst broath and Forfar line, which cost 9,000/. other matters, that it was likely there would be s gene-. The receipts upon that line were for the ral clamour against any proposition that would come first year 468 L, and the cost of the working of the line forward about Ireland ; and, besides, b was 2021., leaving to Government a clear interest, be. thought it was much more consistent for the sides 2/. per cent. for the shareholders. To show what I , ism gentlemen to act as they had done. that line was, he must tell the House that all He thought this was more favourable for Irish the traffic which existed previous to the con- gentlemen and props iet ors than:that which they proposed struction of that railway from Arbroath to For- themselves. He (Lord G. Bentinek) and his friends far amounted to what could be carried on a one-horsed had arrived at this conclusion after having given the carrier which plied once a-week.—(Hear, hear, and a subject their best consideration. The present measur e laugh.) The passenger-traffic daily, at present, was would have, in his (Lord G. Bentinck's) opinion, th e 247 persons, and last year ninety thousand pas- effect of stimulating the employment of the people in sengers, and paid five per cent. to the shareholders. Ireland. This was the object proposed by the Irish Having selected the worst line in the empire, and taken gentlemen themselves; but they should recollect that it in its earliest infancy to show that the .security the best line would not have the effect they (Lord G. would be wholly sufficient, he had now to show Bentieck and his party) desired. His Right Hon. Friend to the House the grounds on which he confidently had never engaged in any enterprise that he bad not expected that the passing of this measure would been crowned with success, and who may consequently , have the effect of stimulating English capitalists, perhaps, be the best judge of these matters, he Ivas and that they would forthwith set to work to complete of opinion that no such encouragement as the Rish the railways in Ireland. But before he went on to do could give would effect the objects here proposed. ee so, his Hon. Friend behind him (Mr. Hudson) reminded might do so slowly, but immediately it would not bale him that he ought to have stated that this the effect of stimulating labour. They could form scene security of 1001. properly expended for every 2001. idea of the number of labourers employed by railways . they asked was a security unquestioned. They proposed The London and Birmingham line employed one bu n n; • to snake the Railway Commissioners, a board which is dred men a mile for four consecutive years. Taking o. responsible to both Houses of Parliament, an efficient line of those proposed in Ireland, Mr. Stephenson bad board for the purpose of dealing out those loans stated that to execute the whole it would require the ser: to the companies. They proposed to throW' vices of sixty men a mile for four consecutive years, and the entire responsibility upon those Commissioners for 150 miles-90,000. But artificers, and many others not for the due performance of their duties; and exactly engaged on the line of railway would be also unless they shall report that the railway at once pro- employed to the extent of over 9,000, besides those who tnises to be beneficial to the country, and also unless would be employed in different ways to the extent of reasonable and sufficient security be given, the State is 18 0 ,00 0 . But there were other miscellaneous em ley ' not to be called upon to subscribe, or to advance any ments, which, it could not be denied , by the e x p enditure money upon the enterprise. He was going on to show in .wisely, of a large sum of money, would give employe what position the proposition would place the share- merit to 110,000. But the whole number who woul d be , holders, and it would be at once clear to the House, that thus employed, would amount to 550,000 for four CO whilst the Government would gain four per cent., it secutive years. Now, if a measure which he was prePare ° would pay twelve to the shareholder on every 3001. laid to show, would cost this country nothing—(Hear)' out. He would take a railway, of all others in Ireland, and which would not only cost it nothing, but add to itS which was looked upon as of the utmost national import - w e a l th—if b y a measure such as this, employneen _e auce, and comprises the greatsst number of shareholders. would be g iven for four consecutive y ears to 550,0004 He would take the Waterford and Limerick Railway , the indust rious p o p ulation of Ireland, who would reel', Now, the position of the Waterford and Limerick Rail - goo d w ag es during that time, it must be admitted the, way was this : it was estimated that the cost of the he went a lo n g wa y to assist his Noble Friend (Lorn e e t railway would be 750,000/., but they had taken power to Russel l ) in carry in g o u t his New Pour-law Amendm2l. fl borrow 250,0001. more, and he was assured, from the gene Act.—(Cheers.) But he not only expected by ral experience of all railways which had been constructed proposition to give employment to this large nuesre,, in this country and in Scotland, that he should not be and consequently subsistence at least durin g the WI safe, unless he estimated the amount of the cost of the years, but they had not forgotten the comforts lye railway not only the estimated capital but also of the interests of the labourers, in following out .i'A loans which they had power to take. He assumed, recommendations of the Committee to which he ;7 therefore, that the Waterford and Limerick Railway referred, they had inserted clauses in the Bill, obligiblee would cost 1,000,0001. sterling before it was corn- the companies to see that their contractors paid pleted. They had already expended 324,000/. in the wages of the labourers once a week a nd in hard cash _e , construction of different works—(Hear, hear)— (Cheers) — and they had also provided tha t if the Yea, but they were stopped for want of money, and tractors or sub - contractors shoul d fail to fulfil that Coo' the consequence was, that though 27/. 10s. had been dition from the Saturday to the Monday, that a sumeeale paid up of each 50/. share, those shares were at from process should have effect upon them, and that See; 12 to 14 discount. So that, in point of fact, should be obliged either to re-pay the labourer on We er the market value of the 324,000/. so expended day, or in default to pay double the - wages ee, on the Waterford and Limerick Railway was 162,0001 every day of delay.—(Hear, hear.) But this : 1 7 Now, under his proposition, it would not be not the only point on which they had r u e ,. necessar to make any further vain calls . on sidered the interests of the railway labou the shareholders,as the company would be entitled at Another thing which they recommended was this--art„. e e nsois eu once to demand rom the Government a loan equal to received the suggestion from his friend Mr. Step 648,000/. What would be the effect of this ? it was this, that the companies should be required, eon. It had been estimated that the traffic of the the demand of the Railway Commissioners, to r7 e , e railway would admit of a dividend on a capital decent dwellings for the labourers before tae works _ sea C e of 750,000/. of 6e per cent. But considering that the m e nce. N o t hin g could be etron g er than the lan, true expenditure would be not 750,0001., but 1,000,000/. used in the report which was laid upon the eau' t be sterling ; that would give 5 per cent. as the probable stating that it was vain to think of improvingTieg dividend on the entire cost of the railway. But morals unless a commencement was made by imPrree° tied her Majesty's Government came in and lent the social condition of the people, and, in point of l o ee ee e them two-thirds of their capital at 3e, per cent. has been found that railway labourers have been er Z o e The result would be that the 324,0001. share capital into lanes and places not fit for pigs. Some might already expended, would have a fair and early prospect that this was an interference with free trade in n e e le_ t e sp a of a dividend of 8 per cent. The effect of such struction of railways. He was given to u d es a course would be, that the shares of that Com- from all the best contractors, that it was cheaperinto.t_bseoi pany, instead of being dead in the market, in the end to consult the convenience and co ht to t e b s e . instead of being at a discount of 162.000/., their labourers.—(Hear, hear.) Experience tang go to would instantly rise to a premium, and the landed that if their men were uncomfortable, they proprietary and tenantry of Ireland being unable to the public-house and get drunk. :opportunity 01 meet the calls upon them, would be enabled to taught them that where the labourers got rid of their shares at a premium, and fortably provided for, and had net h them, they soon employ the money so obtained in the improvement of bringing their wives and families wit the i t . But there their estates, and in giving employment to the people got tired of their work and d e serted this arrange of Ireland ; so that his propositions would have a double was also another advantage which ardieees in Ire" f effect ;it would at once set to work an immense ment; it would afford to the poor-law ee ers out °f number of persons, and it would enable the landed land additional means of providing for labour bill, proprietors, who were now shareholders in the concern, employment in their own parish. It might have " ie . to make use of the money for the improvement of their harsh for the poor-law guardians to say to the idle f e , estates and the employment of the people. He tenurers who asked for relief, "Oh, :there is a rail k 9 n Eii n p e w n r ieetn e also proprietary had a letter from Lord Glengall, stating that he thirty or forty miles away where you might get wort. were prepared to isTiVAS'i which if etAlty had money, The labourer's answer was, " Where am I and oiY ie ' l 7g altar.) menu Liwc, or oven then." In the counties of Kilkenny, Limerick, and Water- now, it would be in the power of the poor-law guard - in ford, as well as in each of the four baronies, a to say, there is an order for a pip, pickaxe, and a slol e ; similar result would take place.—(Hear.) Now, in go on a railway, and there you will find employment O a each of these places the expenditure under the present- dwelling, which, when you have g o t, you have no ela i b T; ment sessions had been at the rate of 4,0001. per month And thus he thought he should be affording his 1 c .,., ° 0 r , for the last three months, with every prospect of these Friend great faciliti e s for carrying out his l u e demands being continued,—(Cries of " bear, hear.") law Amendment Act. He wo u ld now, with the in the And there was this additional objection to this expendi- Bence of the House, come to the consideration s 01 o f ture, that it was upon useless and unproductive works. effect on the Irish poor.rate which the construet e i° o i e e A magic influence had, however, come over the Govern- these lines would occasion. For the purpose of ` merit, and they had allowed money to be advanced on this effectively, he would turn to the evidence of o ne the earth-works of railways on the security of pre- Smith, of Deanston. And would ant if sentments. He thought the course he proposed, naturally suppose that Mr. Smith would sal s 'iats —namely, to advance money on the security of railways he were asked what measure was , most %het —would be much better than on the security of lated to improve the condition of Ireland bet land. The proposal of l en di ng mone y t o answer should he m a k e b u t th a t th e y s hould drai n . t oe, railways in the security of land was made in 1839, and bogs, to be sure ? But when Mr. Smith, of De a lleor when first proposed, was carried by a majority, but her was examined before the Committee by the Hon' Ass Ma jesty Government would not assent to the ber for Montrose (Mr. Hume), and was asked-" e felt proposal. He considered thi s a wrong co urs e , the best measure for the i m p rovemen t of that en u se ra and the result showed that he was right in he said at once the construction of railways, to b e ...A t he coming to such a conclusion, for while the lands along- And he said that if the railways were construeT e ee) side of which railways pa s sed w e r e i ncrease d i n va l ue t o agricultural improvem en t wou ld follow.—(Hea r, n ieio o the amount of 1,0001. per cent., the land along the Mr. Smith, of Deanstone, was decidedly of , s ei°hrealglij , old channels of communication remain e d s t a ti onar y. that it would contribute to impr ov e the land When he was upon this subject of the r a il wa y s i n th e which they passed, if r a il roa d s were co nstructs 'rove southern districts of Ireland, it was only f a i r 't o s t a t e his opinion was th a t it wou ld t en d grea tly to b n a r ealc l that the Waterford and. Limerick Railway C om p an y it. Mr. Smith, o f D eans t one , was as k e d what " t ea were prepared to employ 16,000 men upon their follow if , these railroads were constructed, and hoc'e Wara s works. But he would read the application made would affect agri cu lt ura l p ro d uce , an d his answ e n by the Chairman of the Gr ea t S ou thern and that the impro vemen t o f t h e l an d to t h e e xtent 0 t Sgt Western Railway Company to the Government, mile on each side of the railway would be su ch 4ol' on the 22d of May, of the last year. Mr. George Carr, it would pay for the whole construction of the rat el' the chairman of the Great Southern and Western Rail- He showed that o n a n area o f 640 acre s, velei cil e ° 0 way Company, addressed a letter to Sir Robert Peel, lowed for a square mile, the produce of the lan du e ag e In which he stated that, after consulting the' contractor s , as it enters into his calculation, for its mere' e a r art lag he found that, if they w ere accommo d a t e d w ith a sum alone, would r et urn a f u ll p er ten t age , without s a goe' of 500,000/., they would undertake to give simultaneous anything of back carriage. He found from thi s . e aS employment to many thousand p e r sons i n diff eren t meat, that the cost of the car r iage per square m' e l see portions of their line, an d th e wr it er o f t h e l etter 377/, 15s. 6d., and th e re t urn i s ca l cu l a t e d at 61 ,7,. th e added, that the utmo s t care wou ld b e ta k en i n t h e and this differen ce was t h e a d van t age o bt a ined lo^ e als payment of the wages to adopt a system produce of the land on every mile of railway. / te e e of wise economy, while at the same time ing to his calculatio n , a t t wen ty y ears ' porches h ad a great extent of relief would be afforded to the pop u l a - miles of railway wou ld rea li se 152 , 8521 . Now the s ea tion of the different counties, and Government still would proposed the construction of 1,500 miles of railWsPc, is be remunerated for the money advanced. He a l so i nc l ose d from thi s ca l cu l at i on i t appeared that land PrnP ert 'dl 9 e a copy of a letter which he had addr esse d t o t h e Ir e l an d wou ld b e en h anced in va l ue, ta ki ng only e%' Secretary of Public Works in Ireland, and trictof one mile on each side of the railway, to Weal after stating that the length of line was 200 tent, and he assum e d on th e b as is of this ca l c ulation ' o f miles, and that ' the dense population of the 1,920,000 acres would be required for the 1,500 Mi l l i e towns along the line, from Templemore to Tipperary, railway; the improvement of the landed property teel o had long been known for their di scon t en t e d con di t i on, land, at 25 years' pu rc h ase , an d that he took as the 0 and there was no means of alleviating this evil excepting estimate that could be stated—the improvemente-el' by an employment of the p eo pl e . H e m i g h t safely y ear ' s p urc h ase wou ld b e to the extent of 23,033, 6 4' 03 4e assert, that 50,000 poor f e ll ows were now starv i ng (H ear , h ear .) Thi s statement was ma d e by Mr' ofie° • and idle, who would be Placed in a condi- of Deanstone, as his estimate of the imovement bi° tion of comparative comfo r t by the receipt of in Ireland by the construction of railways. Tu t ' - frolo wages which would render them and their families was not an over-statement might be ascertainedblu.gli happy during the most trying period of the year— the experience obtained on the Glasgow and Edie-0 Jps namely, the months of July and August. Now, he would Railway, the statement of which Mr. Smith gav e tbi, have Hon. Members to reflect on this o ff er o f th e evidence. He said that before the construction f e ral', Great Southern and Western Company to employ 50,000 line the greater part of the land near to it was le; labourers; it would have exhibited a true wisdom and a more than five shillings an acre, whereas now it true economy, and have prevented the necessity of now at from thirty to forty shillings an acre.—(Hea r, men being called upon to pay half the expenses of th ese Now, taking ten shillings per acre as the inlPr, ° „• parochial presentments for the maintenance of the Irish obtained by the construction of a railway, and eal e o,ol poor. In addition to this, he had a communication at 25 years' purchase, the improvement of le" siee ° from Mr. Garvan, a great contractor of Ireland, who acres, which would be required for the 1,50 0 il! v e had taken contracts for three hundred miles of railway, railway would be found to yield an additional °Pelee of but he states that he was stopped on a hundred and two the country of 23,000,000/a and he did think teeeeeat miles out of the three hundred, partly in consequence this head alone, his proposal was fraught w ith SO of not being able to get possession of the land, and advantage to the country. But that was not tbeetall partly on account of the want of money to go on w ith advantage. It would empl o y thos e l a bourers us eshic the works. He states, that if he were at liberty to pro- who were engaged on those works of idleness 0 00 teed, he could, upon the next day, employ thirty th ou - were commenced la s t M a y. Th ere were 83,000 sad sand men.—(Hear, hear.) It might, howe ve r, b e sa id employed to cons t ruc t 3,800 m il es o f use less roa dll c i, b Ol that his proposal would only affect th ose count i es not o n ly wou ld th ose l a b ourers b e use f u lly ensl",, e ,e-rst i ff pdt tell h h ar r es o ds e u t d a g ne inh and forty House,wft h oh i re c t hy sessions th e tthat milesa r t ai l out roo f railroads drlsaBt railway o passed; aaynn edf o thousand rl b B u 4 t 6 I whichea n beggedAd three ctrsevh were oue u nr t o es. their employment would tend to relieve the and the county cess by the construction of railiveeee he were to take the number of th o se who dire c e t o l leoo, it directly were assisted by the poor-rate at 1 , 50 0 to that, the result was, th a t th ere were but four coun- appeared to him that the expenditure for ihesetent ° f ties in Ireland which would not be traversed by rail. miles would relieve the poor-rate to the e": 50 1 11 wmaayyse. Sligo,H e , G h a e l a w a ny and a nd Roscommon.cheers) Th ose There counties e , 15,000,000/. He fOund by the calculation vied for adopted for railways in England the money le o n t he already before the House Bills for the extension wre poor-rates amounted . to one and a half per of a line from Athlone to Galway,which cent;etoill:nthl would traverse gross return. This sum would give a Rev s s o s othw el one end of the county of Roscommon and pass through 1,0001. per mile. In England and rull 'pe g the e e n n t t r eof gentlemenGalway. , This was a line which those in- gross return was on an average 3 ' s e ssilWal ° Messrs. Bidder and ida who mile. He took the gross return on , eat, z , B e gs o w t e h r e e r employed by Mr. Stephenson, said, that of all the in Ireland at one-seventh of that °' d whe° and he believed that the railways in jrelan st u t eo se o projected lines of railway, this was of the greatest importance to the welf a r e of that country, and a line finished and completely officered, would not t e h ° oria ilWg ic which would pay at least five per cent. to the share holders, There could not be a doubt, if this measure much as this. He now gave thereturn for al ulation were to pass, that another branch from the Midland and at 950/. a mile, though,accordin to the : c e as e ,. n the ought to be 1,60 . 0/. a . mile ; b . ut g no ve t e i s l;7i g e ° e sum' Great Western Railway would be made, passing from amount of 3,500 e, as it was believed Longford to Sligo, through a very fine mineral district, he would assume that the which, according to the report of the Railway, Commis- and Scotland, was only to b© 1,000/. per m i n or - ra te sad sinners in the year 1842, contained the finest description this calculation it was evident, that the relieved to the /, of the richest and most luxuriant ore, but which could the county-cess of Ireland would be _ ore, _pis mileage alldwiineefer sinege--I,llPeet,:i 22,6001. a year. Allowing , not be worked at 'present for want of railway commune- tent ofthe ag ed ' cation.—(Cheers.) There was a Bill before the House per year for the support of the destitute le _ House t ea also for a line which would be carried on to Cavan and the infirm ; and he ought W state to the without 01 there would not then be a single county in Ireland' this 22,600/. would bo altogether loss. He would now take the the r efore , a sin af WOrkillg the which would not be traversed by a railway.—(Hear.) Acts had been passed empowering companies to complete line. It appeared by the report of the 1,522 miles of railway.'; There were before the House Arbroath and Forfar Railway, at that moment Bills for 150 miles more, and there were the scale of expense in Great Britain, that 2021. l e d the lines which had already been carried out, making cost of working the line was, on an every . , ...., an together 1,970 miles of railway, of which 123 were made, mile ; this included the expense of wear e an u n so tT at e e stet ex penses d o 164 were in the course of construction, leaving 200 miles of new locomotive engines. a"" tuargiA of railway to be allowed by the Railway Com- - and deduct 40 per cent for the working of the Then, allows .ir.theetlf:eurpOtbi: ectors of the IN in