The Sun. — London, England, 1857-07-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONEON, SATURDAY EVP, 4 ts4ING- 1 JULY ls, 1857. --------- ...e.e now suggestod should be converted into transport ships , will not be satisfactory to my noble friend, but it is all by this language was, that there was some urgent public would be available for the purposes of the proposed • that at present I can in duty say. engagement connected with the house, Lord PALMERSTON then proceeded to state, in answer. squadron. Contem p oraneously, then, with the prepare- some priva t e business of peculiar importance which justified the rig ht tion of these ships for proceeding to the Bay of Beng al , to Mr. Griffith, that the proposed project of a ship canal through the Isthmus of Suez n as in his opinion inconsistent hon, gentleman in appealing to the parties and to his he should be calling upon the merchant service to pro -1 with thepolicy anninterests of this country—(hear)---in a colleagues to consent to an adjournment. No one could vide the means for conveying troops to India, and he , • • . • have • • anticipated from the language of the right hon. ventured to believe that• this mode of proceeding , political point of view, especially with regard to our Indian gentleman that his only object was to preside over a far preferable to the one which had been suggested. was , possessions. If there were a groat ship canal through the Suez isthmus, other maritime powers with whom we might public mewing. He was bound ay that, no matter never ' (Hear.) Perhaps he might be allowed, in reference to come into collision would have an immense start before what might be the nature of the to r s uc meeting, t he this transport q uestion , to make a further statement to England. (Hear, hear.) Besides, tho project was one tend would have consented to adjourn themee partiesmeeting on ouch a the house: It was said that a good deal of injury was ing to the separation of Turkey and Egypt—a policy which ground. (Hear.) It, was quite true the assented , done to the public service by sending troops in sailing the French Government had loyally disavowed at the Paris but did so, like the noble lord and himself , under th e conferences.. With regard to . the difficultyin an engineering point d of view, nothing was in fact . impossible when money impression that the adjournment was for some matter vessels instead of steam vessels. It was perfectly true an renenne were at . hand; but, .speaking of the matter as a peculituny important to the right hon. gentleman. (Hear, that in short voyages steam vessels were far more rapid commercial speculation, he believed he had been correct h tar.) in performing the transit than sailing ships ; but before when he characterised it on a former occasion as one of Mr. HORSMAN trusted the house would allow him any particular case could be decided we must look at the those bubble companies which drew money from the pockets to Ray a few words in answer to the extraordinary state- particular c i rcums t an ces that surround it. Long voyages of English capitalists aud gave them nothing in return. ment—(oh, ob, and cries of "Order") of the hon. gent- at certain periods of the year were accomplished quicker Ismail. It was extremely painful to be at issue with o r the as qu ick by sailing vessels , as b y steam vessels, and Mr. R. STEPHENSON said that, with regard to engi - i the noble lord and the hon. gentleman on a question of . particular case now under consi deration was one of neering di ffi culties, he might say that he had been over the fact, but he was fortified by the presence of the members tnem. The level of Lefrere taken at the time of the French inva of the committee, and from his own recollection and po- of c al, whic h mustb . e sent from this country to va- Bien of Egypt, in 1801, stated that there was a difference sitive knowledge, he could state that there was not the rious stations ; now it was . not always that an ads- between the level of the Red Sea and the Mediterranean of slightest foundation , in truth or fact, for the assertion quote supply could be obtained ; while when it could 32 feet. Limon Bey had, therefore, suggested that the that he had ever stated it was impossible for him to at- be obtained the delay of coaling prolonged the voyage canal of Ptolemy should be cleared out, that by means of it tend. "Oh, oh," and cheers. On the contrary, it was to the time occupied by a sailing ves sel . Accordin g to an opening between the two seas should be made. Along () a return he had just obtained from Lloyd's , it a pp eared this canal it was calcu lated that the difference of level not until after the adjournment was agreed to that be that at this time of year the time occupied by a would cause a currant running at the rate of 4 miles an came out and saw his friends, and toll them he could sailing vessel in performing the voyage from Lcndon to hour, a rate su ffi cient to keep the canal scoured, but not so take the chair. If the adjournment had been in the Calcutta was from ninety to one hundred days, taking strong as to prevent the transit of steam-vessels both up and slightest degree objected to, he would not have done so , the average of the last three or four yew's. On the down. He went into the matter believing that the differ- He stated three times to tbe counsel, that if it was for other hand, in the case of four steamvessels which had ence of level existed. The French engineers, however, their convenience an adjournment might be suggested. f the l been employed in the execution of a contract for carry- with whom he was associated, made fresh observations They said it would be most convenient to th em, and i erence oeves, and they discovered that ing the mails from this country to Calcutta , t he avera g e upon the diff ce no differen in reality existed, l and that the world had for neither they nor the parties had the slightest idea that was 104 days. (Hear.) it was for his convenience rather than for that of the 50 at Le o ar f s t l h a e b n o a ured un der as a misa p prehe ns ion . tiet When the true Colonel NORTH asked the Under-Secretary for War e w ith whom he noble lord or any other member of the committee. Be the question of which he had given him notice, viz .:— acted a came to the conclusion — a wn g entlemen nin which he could only account for the statement now made by sup- What force of artillery is to proceed to India, and whe- concurred —that the project was not a sound one. Since posing that the hon. gentleman and and the noble lord, then or loot they are to take guns, ammunition, and that time he had walked over the isthmus, and considered after sitting so long on a scrutiny, had carri ed into the horses, and if not, to state the reasons. Wha t staff of the p racticabilit y of making a canal, and he had come to house a good deal of the confusion as to facts they bad artillery is to command and direct this force ? the conclusion that such a plan was—he would not say displayed on the committee. (Oh, oh.) Sir J. RAMSDEN said the force would consist of six absurd or feasible, but at least one which, although engi- Lord J. MANNERS rose to order. The right hon. companies and two troops of horse ; they would not neering operations might overcome its difficulty, was an gentleman had no right to use such language when h e unfeasible one in a practical point of view. take either guns or ammunition , because the Govern-had only risen to explain. (Hear.) PRESENT STATE OF INDIA , ment were informed that the arsenals in India were Mr, HORSMAN made no charge against his oodles- Mr. DISRAELI not having contributed to the olio of amply supplied with both. gues. (Hear, hear.) Ile only conceived that the wears- • • subjects which had been brought before the house--(a JEWISH DISABILITY QUESTION. nets produced by so long a sitting had produced confusion laugh)--would venture at last to bring forward his share. in their minds. They had made a charge against him Lord J. RUSSELL said—Sir, although I am sensible of The noble lord (Palmerston) had said that their days were for which there was not the slightest foundation, and the inconvenience of raising debates on the motion for ad- numbered, but he reminded him that their dutiesd were ipultiplied. Ha did think that the house l . w i re every one in the room knew that. He felt as much as journment, I rise, in consequence of a wrong suffered by i functions an d plac e itself a s regarded the country in a most any one how unjust it would be to the parties to protract m y own constituents, to ask the decision of the Govern- ignominious position if t he present session were to close the inquiry for a single day, or to put them to a shilling ment with respect to the bill of which I have given notiee without there being a debate and discussion in that house of expense. He was most unwilling to put them to any for to-nig ht. Sir, my constituents have four times elec ted on the affairs of India,. He thought it their first duty to inconvenience, and he did not propose the a d jo urnment until ceunsel had three timer , stated it would be for their Baron Lionel de Rothschild as one of their representatives consider the state of oar Indian empire. He had under stood from the right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. Smith) that —(cheers)—but he has been unable to take his seat in this convenience. certain of the papers—those papers which contained a Sir J. "'ARINGTON and Colonel KNox rose together, house owing to the wording of one of the oaths adminis- mere narrative of what had taken place—would, in the and for some time both seemed inclined to persist, when tered to members. (Hear.) Successive governments have coarse of the day, be laid on the table. Bnt as the occupants of the opposition benches called for Col. attempted to relieve him and his Jewish brethren from - regarded the other papers, which were to give informa. Knox. the disabilities to which they are subjected, by passing tion as to what had occurred befora the outbreak for Sir G. GREY rose to order. He believed the Speaker some months previously, they had been told that no warn bills in this house, and sending them to the other house of mg of the impending mutiny had been given to the Go bad called on the right bon. baronet. PRINTING OF PAPERS FOR THE HOUSE. Parliament. (Hear.) It has been suppose d that the Cit y vernment. No w, if the Government were searching among of London are satisfied with three members, and that they its archives for this warning—(a laugh)—the house might S:r J. PAKINGTON then proceeded, but, from the do not insist upon having a fourth to perform their fine- wait to no purpose, and be told at the last moment that noise which prevailed, his observations were imperfectlythe search was fruitless. Hence therefore, without heard, H r He said he took it for granted the house bad no lions in Parliament . ; b a t th a t is not the fact ; the City of ing for these latter papers, he ° thought that the house, desire to prolong the discussion, and if he gave way he London is anxious to have its full representation, but they having before it a narrative of what had occurred, ought would not have another opportunity of calling attention have consented for a time to forego that privilege in order at an early day to proceed to take into its deep and serious to the subject of which he had given notice. He was to vindicate another privilege, namely, the great privilege consideration the affairs of India. The noble lord the member for London (Lord J. Russell) seemed the other informed that a rule had lately been made, to the effect . claimed by the people of this country to send members day ra ther inclined to sneer at tho necessity for discussing that papers presented to the house by command o f her to this house without regard to their religions this question, and to think that all to be considered was Majesty were ne longer to be distributed to members, opinions. (Cheers.) Sir, the House of Lords has again how to put the outbreak down. But he would venture to but to be placed in the vote office, and be accessible to rejected a bill which was intended to produce that result. say that it was totally impossible that the house could members on application. He was as desirous as any It was supposed, and fairly, that the majorities in this form any idea as to whether the steps to be taken by the man to restrain the expense of printing, but he thought house being generally small—something, indeed, between Government were adequate to the emergency of the ease, the rule now proposed would be most inconvenient. 25 and 30, the House of Lords considered that in face of unless they knew something of its origin and cause. (Hear.) Many important papers would be presented which would that divided state of opinion they were not bound to give They had been told that the rising sprang from a sup entirely escape the notice of members, for the mere in- effect to the wishes of the House of Commons ; but it ap- posed insult to the superstitions feelings of the natives. by their late decision, that this cannot be the ground If that were so, prompt and energetic, but to a certain ex section in the votes of the fact that certain papers' had Pears, of their objection to the measure : because the last bill— tent superficial measures, might meet the case. But if the been presented would not be su ffi cient to direct atten besides being supported by the whole authority and weight c auses of the outbreak were deeper, then measures of a far tion to them. He begged to ask the Secretary of the of the Government—had a majority of 140 in its favour different character would be required. Hence in discussing Treasury by what authority the new rule had been upon the decisive test of its principle. (Cheers.) It is obvi- the subject the house must of necessity take a aide view made? ous that we may send a bill next year to the House of of the causes which have led to the recent outbreak. Mr. WILSON said the role had been adopted in Lords, and the next year another; but if so large a majority (Hear.) He proposed on the earliest occasion which was consequence of a report of the printing committee, which as that is not to prevail, there is no chance that such a bill consistent with due notice to the house and with the conve had received the sanction of a select committee, pre- will be accepted by the House of Lords. (Hear.) Let me nience of the Government to ask the house to consider the sided over by the right hon. gentleman the member for say, however, thetas these bills appeared to take the shape present condition of India—first, with regard to the cause toe University of Cambridge. The object was to save of a change in the law, and as the last bill we sent up pro- of the recent outbreak ; and secondly, with regard to the expense. If, however, the new z ale was found to work p osed a change in the oaths to be taken by members of this question whether the means taken by the Government to house,. it was undoubtedly within the constitutional . func n quell the outbreak were e ffi cient. Ho would propose to inconveniently, he would suggest that the whole should tions of the House of Lords to refuse to sanction it. But, the noble lord that he should fix some day, as early as pos be referred again to the committee. (Hear, hear.) sir, the question which occurs to me, and I think the house Bible, for the consideration of this question. He should, SCREW LINE-OF-BATTLE SHIPS AS TRANS- • wili agree not unnaturally, is, whether the City of London on that occasion. make a motion, not conceived in hostility PORTS. is to be satisfied with the present state of their representa- to her Majesty's Government—not with a view to any Admiral DUNCOMBE, in calling the attention of the tion, or whether, on the other hand, they are to be satis- party triumph, but with a view of placing before the house First Lord of the Admiralty to the policy of reconsider- fled with their defeat on this occasion; or, thirdly, Whether those ideas which occurred to himself and others, on a sub kg the determination, as announced by him, not to em• there is any other course that can be adopted in the matter. ject which he feared was one of the most momentous of our ploy any of the screw line of battle ships in conveying a Now, it has occurred to me that ther e is another course. time. In conclusion he would su gg est that this day week I portion of the troops about to be sent to India, said th ere (Hear.) The house is well aware that the law now for two be given to the matter. were at the present moment in the home ports 10 screw centuries has declared and acknowledged that persons in Lord PALMERSTON—Sir I am quite ready to admit line of battle ships, besides a large number of frigates , courts of justice mighttake an oath in any form binding on the position which the right lion. gentleman has laid down which had, with one exception, been employed in the their conscience. That was an opinion declared to have —that it would be expected by the country that this house been given in 1657, and on the proposal of the late Lord should, before it separates , g ive its attention seriously to late war, and therefore, had their machinery in perfect D enma n a bill was passed, which is now an act of Perlis - the present state of the affairs of India. At the fame order and their engines on board, and could in a very short ment, viz., the-Ist and 2d Vic., c. 10n by which all per- time, as I said on a former occasion, I should think that time, be fitted out for the conveyance of troops to India. sons in courts of justice, a nd on any (sua sion whatever, are th e h o u se wo u ld wish, at all events, to have the papers , The Admiralty d e served ereatcredit for baying purchased to take an oath in the form binding on their consciences; that hon. members might read them. My right hon. friend the Himalaya, and he w i s hed they had 5 or 6 lige her, but and such persons falsely swearing ;hall be liable to all the the President of the Board of Control has been looking as they had not theline of battle ships ought to be used in pains and penalties of perjury. (Hear.) But although that through the papers, and he has made a selection which a case of such emergency. One of theme vessels would act is declaratory of the meaning of the law, there is en kill be sufficient to give every information. These papers take an entire regiment and land it in much better order amtiguity about the words " on any occasion" which are are now in type. The right hon. gentleman suggests Fri than if it had been divided on board two or three ships. contained in it. (Hear.) It is doubtful whether eny day next; I, however, suggest the probability that during hahe a r n st mhaen)rai:ylisweilaer tot than r the os i r t i e i r ,, i t or ti : i o s u a r m ts b o i f !es- the next week there will boa mail in from India, which The moral e ff ect produced by the appearance of these there ships would be very great, and they would furniele a laree should be cleared up; that it P sh i clld be declsr3d ant engact'etyd un s o u t l f , a m il i t t t o b b a r t iag on tidings o f kgr e i a l . l ! 3r o t p h o er t ba : t e te. I I , force of sailors and marines in case of emergency. He that in the High Court of Parliament,as well as elsewhere, if accepted, I will take care that w it shall be r e e r s ' egea fur thought it a bat thing that the Government were forced and on all other occasions, the oath to be administered by this question. to hire ships in alt ea-es of emergency, for the greater the person lawfully empowered shall be taken in the form ' - ' l 7;M.r. DISRAELI accepted the offer of the noble lord to the emergency the greater the expense would be to them, most binding upon the party to be sworn. fix Monday week as the day for discussion. He wished to know whether the First Lord of thaAd- Sir H. WILLOUGHBY rose to order—the noble lord Ma. ROEBUCK asked the right hon. gentleman, who miralty would reconsider his determination, and employ was speaking to a motion on the papers for the night, and said he should propose certain resolutions , whether du e no at least three ~r fear ships as an experiment ? was thereby clearly violating the roles of the house. lice would be given of them ? NCK wished to take that opportunity of Lord J. RUSSELL — If it is not competent for m e to g o Mr. DISRAELI di d not wish to bind himself as to the Mr. BENTINCK calling attention to two answers lately given by the on I shall propose to conclude by moving that this h ouse terms of the motion . He would frankl y sa y , however, that do now adjourn, with the view of enabling the Government it would not be hostile to the Governm ent. Antici p atin g First Lord of the Admiralty and the First Lord of the to s a t e w h a t th e y will do on this question. (Hear.) that the Government would not give all the papers he Treasury, fram which be inferred it, was the intention of Sir H. WILLOUGHBY—With every respect for the should require, he had thought of moving for additional the Government to leave the country in a totally de- noble lord I must submit my question of order to the chair. papers ; but inasmuch as it would appear that the papers fenceless state both by sea and land. The First Lord of The SPEAKER—WiII the hoe. baronet be good enough were not to be limited to those to be laid on the table that the Admiralty had stated a few nights ago, that they to state the point of order again. night, he did not know whether the further papers would had no ships fit to carry troops, but he (Mr. Bentinck) Sir H. WILLOUGHBY—A motion stands now on the contain the requisite information. believed that the ships in commis-ion at home were as paper for to-night in the name of the noble lord ; it is for PULP PARCHMENT. little adapted for purposes of defence ; and, in point of leave to introduce a bill in reference to a certain sta tute ors Mr. DILLWYN called the attention of the house to the fact, the country was now totally destitute of any marl- there named. Now it appears I s o a m n e ir t r h e at u t a h r e it noble ( l a d r.) m an ufacture of pulp parchment, and inquired of the Chan ce article sr o w f the e a Exchequer owo toeon whether t l nue the oroue4 . u A ltg L ques l i n ow m an u fa c tu retel thateeonfof time defence. The First Lord of the Treasury had thete night before given a most remarkable answer to a gees- E ra tti e r think, sir, g your , y p . redecessor in the chair always laid it down as a rule that although Court of Exchequer as to whether or pendingnot it was paper ; tion of the right hon. member for Bucks (Mr. Disraeli), we departed much from the ordinary rule in debating the and, if so, under what conditions. to the effect that it was not intended to call out the motion that the house at its rising should adjourn till The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that militia for the purposes of training . Monday, yet it was always considered that it was not the manufacture was to be allowed to proceed on the terms • The SPEAKER informed the hon. gentleman that it competent for any member to take advantage of that mo- of the manufacturer keeping an account and undertaking was quite contrary to the rules of the house thae he lion to speak on any other motion or order on the paner for to pay duty if found liable. s h o uld re fer to an answer given in a former debate, the day. The noble lord, however , now ProPhsea to make The motion for adjournment wa s w ithdrawn. (Hear.) another monon. He proposes to move the adjournment O' The original motion that the house at its rising adjourn Mr. BENTINCK submitted to the decision of the the house at once, as an amendment to the motion before to Monday was agreed to. the chair . chair, but trusted the indulgence of the house wouldTHE LAItIBETH ELECTION. Lord J. R USSELL—No; I said I might do so. allow him to call attention to this very important sub- Mr. WALPOLE—WeII, ertainty, upon that motion the Mr. INGEIAbI moved that Joseph Tredre, then in cus ject. The noble 1 ird went on to say--(Cries of noble lord would not be in order; and as he cannot, there- tody of the Sergeant-at-Arms, be discharged without pay " Order," "Chair.") fore, put himself in order by moving it, I submit that, in meat of fees. The witness had now been confined for four days, aud there appeared to be some mitigating circum- The SPEAKER again informed the hon. gentleman pursuing this debate, we are incurring the risk of falling be was infringing the rule of the house. into great irregularity. stances a ff ecting his case, Mr. BENTINCK a as at a loss how to introduce the Mr. MALINS remarked upon the injustice of continuing Mr. ROEBUCK thought that he deserved confinement a subject. The noble lord bad made a statement involving the discussion upon the noble lord's bill, seeing that many few days longer. He Iseult). not, however, oppose the questions of very great importance, and he trusted be me mbers who took an interest in it hail left the house under motion. Agreed to. the impression that the subject could not be token ont of would not be precluded from calling attention to it— —STATE OF OUR DEFENCES. its order. Mr. ROEBUCK—Suppose he said it. (Hear, and The SPEAKER—On the question of order, I must, in On the motion for goine into committee of supply, laughter ) the first place, remind the house of the extreme inconveni- Mr. BENTINCK called ' attention to the observations Mr. BENTINCK would suppose or imagine that the ence of the course which has been pursued this evening. he had already made upon this subject; said that his statements had not been referred to b y the noble lord, and noble lord said that he did not think it necessary to call All kinds of topics have been discussed upon the motion out the militia, as they were under no apprehension of that the house at its rising do adjourn till Monday next; con cluded die d views, by he saying ahonld t a h t a t t h a e s e n a o r t e n t g ha d transpired t any disturbance to the peace of Europe. He appealed and that course, I need scarcely remind hon. members, b of the house, bring the subj v ec e ; under the consideration to the house, what would be the consequence of carry- creates confusion in the discussions in this home that is tel Lord PALMERSTON said that so many questions had ing out such a doctrine, and in what a position it wo uld greatly to be deprecated. As regards the question which () been brought before the house on the motion for adjourn place the country. All the available force of the coon- has been addressed to, the chair by the hoe. h b e y e o v n e e t t h t e h re meat to Monday, that he had, he admitted, forgotten to try was about to be sent to the East, y et at this very mem no b t er h for Evdeosuttneth(aStirnoHm. more t he I notice the statements of the hon. member. He could not mpe tive duty ' devolves he was of opinion moment the snap of a pistol might place the country in can not me than that of observing ' the r o a rder of business as agree with the hon. gentleman in thinking the country was a coition of antagonism with one of the most powerful laid before the house in the votes for the day. Certa i n l y, in a defenceless state ; on the contrar y, nations of the continent. He appealed to the house that we were quite secure from any unforseen attack, let then, my opinion is that as the noble lord has given notice whether it was right that the country should be left o f a motion for this evening it is rather going beyond the it come from where it might. With regard to calling out . without any means of defence ? Even in a mercantile bounds of regularity to anticipate that motion upon the the militia, he conceived that such a step was wholly un point of view, as a mere question of assurance, he asked question that the house at its rising do adjourn until Mon- necessary, and that its only effect would be to waste a • the noble lord whether it was wise to leave this country day next. (Hear.) large sum of money, and put the country to a great deal of serious inconvenience. (Bear) When the hon. gen at the met cy of the first comer who might think it worth Lord J. RUSSELL said, with respect to the point of vet ry a broueht the matter before the ) house he trusted that while to attack it. It was not by such false economyorder, in the course of this very evening hon, members on he should be able to moat the remarks which the hots, that the noble lord could expect to retain the public sup- the opposite side of the house had entered into questions port he bad acquired. which more properly belonged to the committee of supply. member might see fit to make. His right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty had THE INDIAN QUESTION. Mr. LIORSM AN said he was told that an expression reprehended the practice of debating such matters on the Lord J. RUSSELL took the opportunity of explaining fell from him jest now which, if left unexplained, might, motion for adjournment, and immediately afterwards fol. that the ri g ht hon. gentleman, the member for Bucking • be liable to misconstraction• It seemed to he supposed lowed it himself. Having been misled by that high autho- hamshira (Mr. Disraeli), misapprehended him in supposing that something he said rather reflected on the conduct city, it was now only fair that he should be allow e d t o that he thought the question of the present state of India of the two hon. members who served with him on the state that ho had a practical object in view, from which he was not a fit subject for discussion ; what he had said was, Bath election o onmittee ; but what he meant to say would not be diverted. The practical object was, supposing that at the moment, the affair taking the shape of a mili was that, after engaging in a long and tedious inquiry, the house consented to his bringing in the bill, would the tar t' revolt, the first thing to be done was to put it down ; First Lord of the Treasury agree to set apart a Go - . aft er war ds there ought no doubt, to be a serious discussion they might be excused if their memory was defective on vernment clay for its consideration? (Hear, hear.) It o f the m atter. He doubted, however, whether Monday some slight matter of fact. In saying that, he had not w a s obvious that unless that were done, there was next was not too soon to enter upo n that discussion. the smallest idea or intention of casting any reflection no chance of the bill going up to the Ho usei of Lords RAILWAYS IN INDIA. on their conduct. this session, and then Mr. Dillwyn's motion would be . Mr WATKIN called attention to the de fi ciency of Mr. DILLWYN, replying to Mr. Newdegate's brought forward, which might involve the h ouse in a railways in India, and moved a resolution affirming the question, sa id it wa s with regret that he could not give serious collision with the House of Lords. (Hear.) It was, nece ssity of extension. He argued that if the arterial the ho n . gentleman any satisfactory information as to therefore, well worth their while that they should have an communication in India had been pat into operation some the day when he should bring on his motion relative to answer to his question ; and, to afford the n o ble lord an years ago , it would have overawed the mutineers, and the o a th of a bj ura ti on . The day must depend upon the opp ortunit y of g ivin g it, he wou ld conc l u d e with moving there would never have been the disasters which had re course the house would take upon the bid proposed to that this house do now adjourn." I cently occurred. louring the last fourteen years England be brought in by Lord John Russell. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE thought the noble lord was in had become a perfect gridiron of railways, while America Sir C. WOOD d epreca t e d th e Practice of introducing error when ho said he had a wrong to complain of on the had extended communication to a similar degree, and cross questi ons upon the mot i on for adjournment. The part of his constitnents. There was nothing on the jour- yet in India during that time, including those tram hon. and gallant member for Norfolk had raised the itn- nals of the house, there was no record to show that a fourth ways dignified by the name of railway, only 330 miles of bortant question of the defences of the country ; but he member was returned for the City of London, because railway communication hail been opened. He thought that submitted th a t th e subject of our national defences was Baron Rothschild had not attempted during either this or evil would have been prevented if companies generally had the last Parliament to take his seat. How then could it be h ad the p ower of constructing railways, instead of the pii far too large an d i mportant to be discussed incidentally said that one of th e members for the Cit y of London was v i le g e bein g confined to a few favoured companies. If there upon a mere moti on f or adjournment. (Hear, hear.) unable to take his seat ? They had no right to assume ha I been a proper railway communication the troops from With regard to the question of his boo, and gallant what the house would do until he had made the attempt. Bombay to Delhi would have been on the spotin three day s. friend opposite (Admir a l D uncom b e), he cou ld assure It was qu ite possible that the house would decide diffe - whereas, from the want of p ra p ertransit at least thirt y da him that the determination of th e Ad m i ra l ty t o w hi c h rently to the former house , an d he therefore thou g ht t he woul d be consumed in the transit. The hon. gentleman he referred was come to not without due consideration member should come to the table before any further step quoted largely from the evidence of Mr. Mangles, the pre nor without ev er y p oint th at "'ld be urged either one was taken. Let Baron Rothschild come to the table and Bent Chairman of the East India Company, before Mr. weighed, and therefore he was or the other being fully take the oaths in the manner most binding on his co n . Bright's committee in 1843, in support of the , principle he did not think that any reconsideration of the matter science, omitting the words, "On the true faith of a advocated, namely, that the railway system should be ex would lead to a different result. He was, however gallant friend for giving him the Christian," and then it would be competent for any hon. tended in India, and then urged the peculiar facilities gentleman to move a resolution to the effect, that having which India offered for railway extension, both . with re - obliged to his hon. and his conscience opportunity of stating the grounds upon which the de taken the oaths in the form most binding on , gir d t o the cheapness of construction and the facility of oh -- he should be eligible to take his seat. (Hear.) taming material. There was no doubt from the first the termination wag come to. It was perfectly true that H immediately . . Parliament, and He voted for such resolution in a former course takenlby the E a st Indian government had been oneof none of the ships of the line now in commission were he was quite ready to support it now . . great obstructivenessto the construction of railways in India calculated to carry troops to China, though they were THE ISTHMUS - OF SUEZ. The hon. member referred to the opinion expressed on the perfectly well calculated for the coast defences of the Mr. GRIFFITH, pursuant to notice, then rose to call subject by Mr. Robert Stephenson. The East India Corn country. Most of the ships were block ships which the attention of the house to the question whether, in their pany had ohosen to put the stir veillance of those companies served in the Baltic, or steam ships powerfully armed, deliberate opinion, it be conducive to the honour or the in the hands of military engineers, and had sought to in capable of moving about the coast of either interests of this country that we should manifest and avow terfere in everyminute detail connected with the formation th exi a stence of ajealons beet on our part to the pro- of the lines. In one in our own or any neighbouring country, but they jest case the engineer of the company were not calculated for long voyages. No better j ther , , of on e th i e p canal through the Isthmus of S uez; or whe- had positively refused to sanction a line running along the with the cha c r o a n et t e r r ary, r it .wou ld not be more in accordance valley of the Ganges, and one of its tributary streams, ships could be employed for the defence of harbours seek to maintain, if fo we di v ;t e n re tees i ted impartiality which we wh ere the gradients were 1 in 1,00), th e average on the or rivers, but they could not be made available for trans troops from one side of the world to the other. prejudice, to be dealt with b t o ea" that subject without Lo ndon and . Birmingham . being 1 in 350. The conse portingy the physical and engineer- quence of having the line made a perfectly dead line No doubt there were first and second class steam ships, ing difficulties which surround its execution? had been to cause the erection of huge water huts and . line-of-battle ships, indeed, lying in ordinary that might Lord PALMERSTON—With regard to the question of water courses to carry off the water from the line which be employed for the t ransport o f troops , b u t there were my noble friend, all I can say is, that of course I p resume runs over the paddy fields. He trusted , ther efore, that her other services besides th e trans the house would, as matter of courtesy, wh a t ever th e op i- M a j es ty' s Mieisters would devote their earnest and most • port service to be pro , vided for. The men in the nay . y bad not yet been re- nions of hon. members may bo on the question itself, allow I serious attention to the construction and com p letion of the friend leave to bring in his bill Withregar d ' ' duced to tbe number voted by Parliamentand to- . to arterial system of railways in India. (Hear, hear.) The night he should ask the house to vote 2,000 more men , asivi z him a day afterwards, he mo st giving st consider that there hon. member next proceeded to refer to the obstacles which very important matters still under discussion in had b • for the service, probably the explanation he was cons truction of the Mad are many days I been placed in the way of the . . now the house—that our are, as may say, num b ered; ram Railway. The system of routine required to be com giving would have come better when they got into corn- and that therefore it is impossible for me, until the public plied with in India was such as if adopted in this country mittee. He was going to ask for this vote of men to business shall advance in a more decided manner, to state would effectually put an end to progress. In the case of ' enable him to send a squadron to the Indian Ocean— ' that we can give to any hon. member a day for any bill the Scinde Railway there existed the same obstacles on the and if he obtained the vote the very wool, whiebit was which he may think fit to bring in. I fear that answer part of the East India Company. A very large amount of money had been subscribed in this country for the cornple- • coed to Calcutta. No one can find fault with that decision, Smith]. Well, then, the matter was zi ill worse if the right hon. tion of these railways—a considerable share of it was in ! but the noble lord went on to say there would still be a g mtleman sought to prove his case by appealing to a public the possession of the East India Company, and it only re- force at Canton quite sufficient to enforce compliance with letter which had not been laid before the house. He (Mr. quired the interference of the house to give an increased the demands of the government. That answer gave rise D Israeli) could not forget that before the late dissolution of impetus towards the completion of railw a ys i n I n di a . Th e to a question whi c h h e did not doubt the committee would Parliatnett lion gentlemen opposite had cheered b sc. use hon. member concluded by moving his resolution. ; think of very considerable importance. He could under- Canton had been bomber led, and that at present they Mr. V. SMITH s,id that as regarded any interference on stand that if a land force was in po , session of Canton, it cheered becauee that cite h‘d not been bombarded. (H ear .) the past of the Government in putting obstacles in the way : might make the viceroy yield. The committee should , Lord PA LMERSTON said he apprehended that the of the progress of the railway, the hon. member had for- i recollect all this time they were not at war , no t w ith- principle which governed the reading of letters was, thot if gotten the fact tnat the East India Company had guaran- standing the hustings declaration of gentlemen that they • a minister used in his place a communication if either a teed 5 per cent. upon the money expended in the construe- were for the prosecution of the war ; the government never l public or private characte r , he was bound to lay before the tionof theserailways, and it was butright that the company said they were at war. (Hear, hear). If Canton was t a k en h ouse that portion of it which he had quoted ; and if the s h ou ld e xercise some amount of surveillance in the con- there might be a prospect of obtaining all that was de- house should think that any portion of it w hi c h h e h a d truction of those railways. No doubt it would be a great mended; but what could a naval force do when the not read might alter the impression created by that por advantage to the Indian Government to have the use of rail- differences were confined to Canton ? The gun-boats might tion which he had read, he might bo fairly required to pro ways f or the conveyance of troops to different parts of the destroy a number of junks, but that would make no duce the entire document. But he (Lord Palmerston) cou ld country. No blame whatever was to be attached to the i alteration in the disposition of the authorities at Canton. ' not admit that a minister might not, like any other mem- Indian Government in the matter of the construction of The only effectual use that could be made of the n a val force b a r make use of information conveyed in a private letter; those railways. It was entirely an affair of the different would be to bloekade the northern ports. But there had and, indeed, the house frequently evinced its desire to re companies, and it was for them to make as great progress as yet been no hostilities at these ports, but, on the con- , ceive such information. (Hear.) as possible, and he could assure the honourable member trary, trade was carried on without any re g e rt t o the Mr. WHITE said that Canton was certainly not born that it would afford the greatest possible pleasure to the hostilities between Commissioner Yeh and Sir John Bow- be a ded in the sense in which the word was ordinarily un- I n di an G over nment to see the rail way system completed ring—(a laugh) —he therefore wished to know whether, as derstood both by civilians and by members of th e m i l it ar y and developed in India. So . far as he was concerned, he there w a s only a naval force in those seas, it was intended profession, which was the pouring in of shot and shell to should be most happy to affcrd every facility in his power to blockade th e nor th ern ports in order to obtain a com- the utter destruction of the town to compel submission. towards the completion of the Indian railways. pliance with the demands made at Canton, for if that was They had only poured shot and shell into the Government Mr. CRA.WFORD stated that he had been since 1840 done the partial hostilities would be tu r ned i n t o a war offices t o s h ow w h a t th e y cou ld d o . Whether judicious or connected with the East India Railway, which was pro- with China, and the imperial government would consider injudicious, that was not what was usually associated with prsed to make a line of 1,100 miles in length ; and in 1855 that the empire was attr sited. He really wished to know the word bombardment. (Hear.) that company had already opened not less than 138 miles what was 'he eiew h r Mrj esty's government, took of th's After some further discussion, in which Sir Charles of its entire length. This was a rate of speed which , he matter, an d w hat was the meaning of his noble friend's N a pi er , M r . H en l e y, an d th e Ch ance ll or o f th e E xc h equer contended was quite equal to the progress made in railway l phrase that a sufficient force would still remain in China ? took part, the motion was carried. making in England. In addition to the 138 miles already Did ho mean to transfer hostilities to the northern ports On the vote of 4,0001. for the expenses connected with opened, works were being actively carried over 900 miles and make V( a 1 on China. He should also like to know the war in China, on the other portions of the line of the company. So far, what was the present object of these hostilities • they Mr. PALK said he w a s a t a l oss t o com p re h en d w h e th er therefore, as the company with which ho was connected first began because the g o v ernor refuse d to make an we were at war with China or not. was concerned, there was no foundation whatever for the apology in writing, and refused to return on board the Lord PALMERSTON said we were not at war with the statements of the honourable member. (Hear, hear.) In lorcha the men taken from her, whom he had already Chinese empire, but we had cause of complaint against an one respect he concurred in the opinion expressed by the returned at the consul's house. hat the present demands officer of the Emperor, for which we sought redress. hon. member, and that was with reference to the super- ware, he for one was totally ignorant. Ho wished to know The vote was granted. q uagain,Ma Pt though h said l l e was this oneb brought uogfh those u p who ep whole u . vision and interference of the officers of the East Ind i a whether it was intended to convert the hostilities into a On the vote for 2a 00 additional men for the sea service, Company in India, where an amount of circumlocution an d war;; and , if so , what w e re the demands to obtain which Lordestio n A. V . T a E n routine was adopted that could hardly be conceived in this the war was to be carried on ? country. (Hear, hear). Lord PALMERSTON said—lt appears, sir, that my ported the Chinese policy because he thought our flog had Mr. GILPIN expressed himself gratified with the an - noble friend and the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) been insulted, he must say, with the right hon. member nouncement made by the right hon. the President of the re tain their former opinions with regard to what took for Bucks, that the tone of Government was far different B oar d o f C on trol of his intention to assist to the utmost place in China—(cheers) —they are perfectly welcome to from that which they adopted just before the dissolution. of his power in developing the railway system in India by retain them ; the people of England have decided that Simultaneously with the war expedition to Persia, and private enterprise. question—(cheers) —therefore whether my noble friend the arising in this country of an uncomfortable feeling as Col. SYKES hoped that in a few days the house would thinks those proceedings flagitious, and whether the right to the stability of our Indian empire, there has been an be placed in possession of accurate facts and figures in h o n. gen lemon adopts and sanctions that opinion, is a mat- eno rmous reduction of our forces. He would ask why they connection with railways and other en t erpr i ses i n I n di a , t er of total indifference to her Majesty's Government. h a d not some, proposition for increasing the number of so as to enable the house to form accurate conclusions ou (Laughter.) Yes, of total indifference. We rest on the men in the army, by replacing the 20,000 men who, they the subject. sanction which the people of the United Kingdom have were told, were about to proceed to India. He was asto- Mr. AYRTON did not think that the government of given to those proceedings. (Cheers.) We are perfectly niched at th? contradictory statement which had been made India had been - remiss in its conduct w ith res p ec t t o ra il- co ntent with the result of the appeal to the people against by different members of the Government as to the mode in wa y s i n India, but were in great danger of constructing the noble lord and the right hon. gentleman. (Cheers.) which the reinforcements were to be sent t o India. He them too rapidly. The right bon. gentleman has told us that he is perfectly could not sanction, after the attempt to stop discussion, An HON. MEMBER complained of the slow progress s a tisfied in some won d er f u l i n f orma ti on derived from a that the vote should be taken, and heshould move that the -of railways in India, and instanced the case of the Groat gentleman whom he has not condescended to name, that chairman report progress. India Peninsular Railway Company. the flag was not flying on the lorcha when she was boar_led Sir C. WOOD deprecated the inconvenient mods Mr. WILLO UGIIBY hoped at some future time to be by the Chinese, and has argued as if the whole case turned which the hon. member had taken to introduce a discus able t o properly place this question before the house. He on that fact. In the first place I beg to remind him that sion on the army, when the committee was occupied with a was connected with the first railway in India, which was it was proved by eye witnesses that the flag was flying, vo te for the n av y. The right hon. baronet insisted on the commenced only six years and a half ago, not fourteen and the blue peter—the signal that the vessel was about great value which the proposed addition to the navy would years ago, as bad been stated. About 3,000 miles of rail- to sail—also. And the whole case did not turn on the fact be, in the war being carried on in the China Seas. He way were now in course of construction, and he did not of the flag flying; lent on the fact that the vessel was lying trusted the noble lord would not persist in his motion for , think there was any cause of complaint. for ma n y da y s at C anton as a B r i tish vessel , and the C an- reporting progress. 1 The motion was negatived without a division. tonese knew she was a British vessel. I really should Admiral WALCOTT sincerely concurred in the vote, and SUPPLY. have thought t h at my s ight hon. friend had had enough of was only sorry that it was not for 5,000 instead of 2,000. 1 The house went into committee of supply on the vote of the lorcha question without endeavouring to thrust it so The navy was at present far from being in a state of 1500,000/. moiety of the expenses of the Persian war. unnecessarily into this debate. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) efficiency to meet any sudden emergency which might arise The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that My noble friend, however, has as k e d a ques ti on much more, at a moment's notice. There was not. a single line of Iso much time having been occupied on a former night in a ppropriate to the subject under discussion. My noble beetle ship at home manned and in a state of efficiency. discussing this subject, it wa s un n e cessary f o r him to f r i e nd Was evidently misunderstood what Isaid on a former He hoped, therefore, the hon. baronet would re-consider enter into such details ache otherwise should have done. occasion. I did not say the troops had-been withdrawn his determination and ask for a greater number of men. The town of Herat was of importance to this co untry f ro m China, but that certain troops had not arrived at He would receive the support of the house and of the coun from its position to India, and no doubt the Government China, but had been ordered to rendezvous at Sin- try in that course. - would have been justified i n th ro wing the expenses of the gapore. On their way they were diverted from their original Sir C. NAPIER supported the view of the hon. an d ga l war on the Indian Government, the same as was done in destination, and sent on to India. (Hear, hoar.) But no lent member. the Affghanistan war; but the Government considered it orders have been given to withdraw troops from China; Mr. HENLEY moved that the chairman do report pro better to undertake the payment of a certain portion of and there are troops there now sufficient for all purposes gross. the expense if Parliament would, give its consent. The f o r which troops can be required. Then, as to what wo The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not un right hon. gentleman said that the East India Company intend to do ; surely my noble friend must know, for it derstand that the vote was objected to. If the house had supplied the Government with an estimate of the pro- has more than once been stated, the course the Govern - passed that vote he would postpone the other two votes till bable final expense of the war, am ountingtol,B6s,oOo/. ;so ment are pursuing in reference to these affairs. It is well Monday, when it was proposed to go on with the com tkat the sum now due under the arrangement between the known that Lord Elgin was sent out with instructions to mittee of supply. Government and the East India Company was rather more endeavour to enter into communication with the Govern- Sir C. WOOD urged the same view. than half a million. He now asked the house to grant ment of Pekin; and until the results of those communise , - Colonel KNOX protested against a vote for the navy 500,000/. ; but he should at a future time have to ask for tions are ascertained by Lord Elgin, no further operations being taken without stating the objects for which the Go a supplemental esti ma t e o f 30,000/. or 400,000/. to make of magnitude will be undertaken at Canton •, indeed, the eemmen t intended to employ the force sent to India, and up the balance. It would not, however, be as ked f or season o f th e year would render any considerable operations without stating their intention to supply the deficiency this year. The n ex t vo t e h e h a d to move was for the by land in the interval undesirable. My sight bon. friend th us crea t e d in the home defences of the country. Chinese war. As a great portion of the China force the First Lord of the Admiralty is going to propose a vote Lord PALMERSTON hoped the house would agree to would be diverted to India, the expenses of the regiments for an increase in the number of men for the navy, and he the vote. The Government could supply the deficiency in so diverted would fall on the Indian Government, is about to send out a force of marines to reinforce the the forces of the army by recruiting immediately. If that and, in consequen ce , h e on ly now asked for a vote fleet. A. certain number of gunboats has also been sent were no t sufficient they would have to consider other of 400,000/ o instead of 500,0001., as first p ro p ose d, ou t, w hi c h h a d arr i ve d a t th e d a t e o f th e l a st =manta My means. The vote then before the house was one for sup -1 A supplemental vot e , h oweve r, would be laid before the noble friend says when these have arrived they will destroy plyi ng suc h d e fi c i enc y as had been alluded to. house by the first Lord of the Admiralty for naval opera- a fleet of miserable junks. These miserable junks are war Admiral DUNCOMBE could not conceive what reason tions in consequence of the war in China, amounting in junks of great magnitude which materially interrupted the able objection could be urged to the vote. S hi p s were-not - round numbers to 100,000/. At present it would be pre- communications with Hong Kone, and when the whole of o f an y use w ith o ut men. mature to anticipat e the e ff ec ts of the disturbance in India the gunboats shall have arrived,' I have no doubt they Mr. BENTINCK w i s hed to know, if the vote were on the English exchequer, but he thought there was nothing will be enabled t o gi ve an accoun t o f th ese miserable junks. agreed to, whether a full and ample opportunity would be to fear ; and he r em inded the committee that whatever (Cheers.) The course we are pursuing, therefore, is this— given to discuss the matter on bringing up the report. was the result, the dem an ds would have to be met in the we are not going to make war with the northern ports, be- Sir C. WOOD would bring up the report the first thing end by the East India Company. He did not anticipate a cause they are in most friendly - relation with the British on Monday. further demand thi s year on the English exchequer (be- merchants ;we are going, in the first place, to do that Lord ADOLPHUS V. TEMPEST then withdrew his yond the sums he had moved), in consequence of the late which, according to international usage, is the fittest thing mo ti o n, w h en the vote, - as well as the votes of 70,0001. for occurrences in the East. Ile proposed to meet these to do. A great outrage has been committed by the local wages of seamen, and 28,27i1. for provisions, were agreed charges in the following manner, first premising that the authorities of Canton—we address ourselves to the Em- to without discussion. income of the Exchequer wasgreater than the expenditure. peror of China for redress and satisfaction—we send a The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that The estimate of expenditure in April last for the ensuing special mission from this country to endeavour to enter the report would stand the first order on Monday next. year had proved greater than ho expected by 1,830,000/. into negotiations with the Imperial Government and snake The house then resumed. In addition to that there bad been a further increase in certain demands upon it. We are not at war with China ILLICIT DISTILLATION (IRELAND) BILL. coffee, sugar, and tea duties, beyond what he estimated at the p re s e nt moment (Hear , hear, and cries of "Oh l'') This bill was read a second time. them, of 500 , 000/. ; and the malt tax had given an addi- There has been a collision between the local authori- The Reformatory Schools Bill as amended was con tion of half a million, making a gross increase beyond what ties, Chinese and British, at Canton and Hong Kong. s id ere d. he expected in April last of d 60,000/. Against this there But that does not constitute war between England The Turnpike Acts Continuance bill was read a second was to be set off the Seund Dues, 1,135,000/. ; the Persian and China; and we must hopesthat the Imperial Govern - time. war, 235,0001.: for China, 400,00 0 /. ; suppemental esti- ment takes that view, and be ready to afford that saris- TheLond and AseessedTa.xes, &c., (Scotland)Acts Amend mate for China,loo,ooo/ e e for thePrincessßoyal, 40,00..?.; faction which will render war unn ecessar y. But in the meet Bill, and the Valuation of Lands (Scotland) Act making together 1,191,000/., to which then would have to possible event of a different issue, we are sen ling out is Amendment Bill were read a second time. be added 300,000/. remaining due on the Persian war, military force to Canton to act against China should the GRAND JURIES (IRELAND) ACT (1836) AMEND snaking together, 2,210,0001. against an increase of Imperial Government refuse or be unable to give us the MENT BILL. 2,860,0031. over the estimates of April last. He therefore satisfaction we demand. We do not think that the diver- The Lords' amendments to this bill were considered and hoped the house would accede to his proposition. gence of the force which was ordered to rendezvous at agreed to. mr. WA.LPOLE expressed himself unable to understand Singapore will make any difference in the result of the the basis upon which the East India Company and the eperatione. We hope the negotiations will render further Government formed their estimate of the cost of the hostilities unnecessary; but should that not be the case, Persian expedition. Having pointed out the seeming in- we shall be prepared to prosecute those operations in a accuracies in the estimates, ho said that the house ought manner that shall enforce the reparation we demand. to be assured that the sums asked for by the Chancellor of Mr. DISRAELI—The noble lord says the opinion of the the Exchequer would be sufficient for the two wars. right hon. gentleman and the noble lord the member for The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there London is a matter of perfect indifference to him. (Cheers was no inaccuracy in the estimate. It was founded on the and counter cheers.) I will leave the noble lord the mem estimate that 230,600/. we had paid would have been suf- bar for London and the right hon. gentleman to settle that ficient, but since then it had been found necessary to ask question with the First Lord of the Treasury when the for half a million. That would h ave b een all the Govern- opportunity offers—brit I cannot help noticing the reason meet would have been asked for this year, had it not have why the opinions of those two eminent members of this been for the late unfortunate disturbances in India. house aro a matter of such indifference to the noble lord. Sir E. PERRY ridiculed the idea of Herat being the The noble lord says it is because the people of England at gate of Persia, and said that its possession was of more ad. the late general election pronounced an opinion on the sub vantage to Persia than to England or India. ject of the operations at Canton, and that appealing to Sir E. COLEBROOKE considered that our late policy that national opinion he can afford to despise the opinion in Persia had been an unfortunate one, and he thought it of those two distinguished members of the House of Com was better for us to strengthen rather than weaken the mons. (Cheers and laughter?) 'But, sir, if I look to the Persian empire. lie expressed his fears that the next general verdict that was given at the late election, it was news from India would be more unfavourable than many one, as I understood, in favour of the vigorous prosecution honourable members appeared to think, and that we should of the war with Chins—(cheers and counter cheers)—and I have some difficulty in maintaining our position there. am not sure that the people of England will be disposed to Mr. AYRTON asked by what authority of law the look upon the present sentiments of the noble lord with Government could send an order to India to apply the that perfect indifference which he is so ready to extend to revenue of that country to English purposes, in anticipa. his noble and righ t hon. friends. (Hear, hear, and tion of a vote from th e house. laughter.) Is the noble lord performing the compact he Sir H. WILLOUGHBY could not take the same son. entered into with the country at the late elution? Is the guine view of the finances of the country as the Chancellor war being vigorously prosecuted ? Why, it ii no war at of the Exchequer, because although th e Chancellor of the all, according to the noble lord's present account. (Cheers, Exchequer had a surplus of two millions, yet that surplus laughter, and counter cheers.) Are these hostilities being had been produced from a sixteen-penny income tax. The carried on vigorously? There are, according to the noble income tax of this year would probably leave them in a lord, no troops there. Why, the very issue on which Parlia deficiency next year. As to the vote before the house, it ment was dissolved no longer exists, and for the noble lord was a question upon which the house had no option. , to get up to tell members of this house that he treats their The faith of the country must be kept, the•money must opinions with indifference because .he is backed by the be paid, and therefore it was of no use discussing it. He opinions of the people of England, when he is leaving the wished to know from what sources the expenses of send- people of England altogether in the lurch, is certainly to me ing the reinforcements to India would be provided? most extraordinary. (gear.) And what is the second The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply to point in the noble lord's observations? It was a charge 1 the hon. member for the Tewer Hamlets (Mr. Ayrton), 1 against a member of thecom mittee for havin gunnecessarily said the President of the Board of Control had full autho- dragged the China question into our debate to-night. Why rity to send distinct supplies to the authorities in India, we have here a vote of 400 , 000 '. t o defr ay the expensosthat and when those instru ctions were a cted upon , the Indiaa have been incurred in the Chinese waters, and the noble revenue provided the expense. With regard to the expense lord says we are not to discuss the subject of Chins. of to India, that would b e p ar ti a lly b orne i (Hear, and oh, oh.) No doubt the se d iscussions are incon by Company and by the Home Govern- I vanient to the Governm ent, for the p eo p le m u s t naturally conveyingthe East troops India ment. r ask themselves why are these hostili tie s with China not vi- Mr. GLADSTONE d enie d that the Government with I gorously prosecuted, and why is the vindication o f th e which he bad been connected had held that the mainte. honour of England, which, two months ago, from every nonce of Herat ought to be held even t o th e e x tremity of hustings in the kingdom we were told was necessary, he wer. They bad held that the mainten ance of Herat was a portant, and requisite—why. is that delayed? (Hear.) matter of importance, but not one of paramount impor- Because the policy of the noble lord in our own possessions tance. With regard to the proceedings in the East, al- --in an important part of own empire, has brought about though he agreed with the noble lord the member for Lou. a state of affairs which calls for the exercise of all those don that they were flagitious proceedings, yet having been energies to support our rule over that part of our own em commenced they must be proceed e d with. Asto the Chinese pire which were required for vindicating our honour in affair it would be recollected that the whole case of the China. (Loud cheers.) lercha the Arrow rested upon th e f ac t o f th e B r iti s h fl a g Viscount rALMERSTON—I must really take leave to flying at the time, and from information he had received congratulate the right hon. gentleman on his belligerent in from British authority he found that the British flag was tentless. (Hear.) I accept it with great pleasure, and shall not flying at the time stated. H e thou g ht that the house count on his support when the action of these operations was entitled to ask for full information on the subject now. shall crown the wishes he so ardently expresses. I can With regard to the accounts which had been presented assure the right hon. gentleman hewill not be disappointed. upon these transactions, he sincerely trusted that they We are pursuing in the proper course the object which the would not be allowed to pass into a preced e nt. He regretted people of this country, and I am happy to find the hon. to find that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was getting gentleman, so ardently desires—(Hear, and laughter)— habituated to this sort of thing, for he said that neat he namely, redress for injuries and the vindication of honour. might have to come to the house to ask for more money for But we thought it was beat to follow the usual course of India. Now that was alarming, because if next year he international negotiation, and to apply in the first place to came for money it would, as in the present case, be a mat- the government of the country by whose agents the injury ter of account and not of estimate. He objected to the had been committed for that redress, before proceeding to the principle laid down by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, extremity of war. The hon. gentleman says I complain of that a surplus was to be taken as a ways and means. The the subject of China being introduced into this debate. practice of Parliament was to apply any surplus in any What I cotnplainedof was my righthon. frieud h member given year to the extinction of the debt. He deprecated for Oxford University reviving the einestion of the lorcha. o N v e E r n thought men t beforei tw o uld have commencingh een hostilities,well if the that which appeared to be glowing into a system, the pre- I could not complain of the subject of China being intro senting in the shape of account after the fact estimates for duced, seeing that it was the subject of the vote. British authorities in China had thought it necessary to the control of Parliament. money which should have berienoperedveimouasnldy w br h o i t e l h gh h t a. u lb nd ee e n r ap l p s l o y ri t t o L t o h V e LOVAINE pay its instead of bombarding a defenceless town within 12 hours N h o G u r ": e E S w a saidotuhl only t in called upon to debts. of the first demand for redress,and Whether the East India Company was in embarrassment . destroying hundreds of payment of a debt which and he knew not how lives, or not, they only asked for the C. WOOD had already stated that did .- ma M de r. the MA asked for no interest— Sir was honestly due to them. They there was any truth in the story of the bombardment of a (laughter)—aud if the house had borrowed the money else• paid With defenceless town, and he had within the last • where they would have had to have interest. ,fortnight re regardhe was happy to say Sir M. mood a letter from Seymour, stating that it was to the insurrection in Inthenot true that he had bombarded the town of Canton, or India, troops. that it was confined exclusively to the Pun-thrown a single shell against any but public thepeople were emi jaub, our most recent acquisition, . credit having been Lord(O caunter cheers.) nently loyal. So far from the public loan no less than LOVAINE said the books clearly showed that there sinking iu India, of the last five per cent. , a regular bombardment. ( - weeks. The loss by the was 470,000!. was subscribed in three Mr• ROEBUCK—WiII the right hon. ' 200 00 9 / a nd h did not exceed , ~ e • right hon. gentleman pro plunder of the treasure duce that letter? (Hear.) be obliged to make hoped that the company would notan y Sir C. WOOD —The letter I refer to is a private letter requisition in England. h eqn er then rose, but gave (Oh, oh, and laughter)--from Si r M. Seymour, but I will The Chancellor of the Exa bring it down on Monday ni g ht , and shall have no objec way to Lord J. RUSSELL, who said that as he had not heard tion to read the paragraph relating to this matter to the house. (Hear.) nen his right hon. friend's former statement, he wished to s Several members • • d an explanation. There here rise t o sp ea k tion some points on which he done amongst them—but was some inconvenience in mixing up the discussion on three subjects of such importance, • Mr and he should confine DISRAELI caught the He said, did not suppose - himself to China. He would not enter into the question of he there was any gentleman in that house the morality or justice of the proceedings there; they ha i who doubted the word of another. (Hear, hear). He was been properly characterised by the right hon. gentleman .. I sure that no one who had sat any time in the house with (Mr. Glaist no), but he wished to learn . . something with the right hon. gentleman could that he was cap. suppose • les now being carried on able of any gross equivocation. But he (hr. Disraeli) regard to the nature of the hostilities of the war, should at Canton ; for, however he might disapprove add-that he thought it would be quite monstrous to be • that ho still wished ' the reputation of the country . main- a minister should make an important statement on tained. It appeared that the English . , , authorities there at- the authority of a document like that to which the Ca tempted some time in October last hostilities against . u- right hon. gentleman had referred, which was not on ton, but from that time up to the latest accounts in May, the table of the house. It was a rule of the house nothing had been done which could impress the authori- that every communication made to a' minister, who- Atte. ties at Canton with any sense of the necessity of yielding ther of a public or a private character, which was Mr. Dillwyn, to our demands. On the contrary, we , should be produced. had retreated from used t o i n fl uence opinion the position we held some months ag o. The accounts from rule were not observed a minister would enjoy a manifest The numbers were — thence stated that the naval force there was not suffi- and unfair advantage in this conduct of ih it discussions, For the adjournment......... cieut, nor of a nature fit to enforce our demands, and that because he might at any moment quote for his purposes a A swinat it a military force was required, which should take the paper which was utterly unknown to other members. It heights above Canton and the city itself, and hold them was only the other evening that the right hon. gentleman until these demands were granted. Two or three nights the President of the Board of Control endeavoured to prove ago the noble lord the Prime Minister stated that the troops his case by appealing to a private letter during the discus. despatched to China would be required in India, and that &on on the important motion of the hon. and learned mem instructions had been sent to Lord Elgin for them to pro. ber for Shafaeld. [" Not a private letter "—from Mr. V. THE OATHS BHA,. -Lord LOVAINE Lord J. RUSSELL then moved for leave to bring in the bill of which he had given notice, to amend the act 1 and 2 Vic., intituled an act to remove doubts as to the validity of certain oaths. The present act was brought in by Lord Denman, and provided Meat any oath should be taken in the way which was most binding on the conscience of the party taking it, and that the pains and penalties of per jury should be inflicted on those who violated the truth under those circumstances the same as if the persons had been swore. He proposed to extenl that principle to the House of Commons. He would not detain them longer at that early hour (two o'clock) than to move for leave to bring in the bill. Mr. WALPOLE said the statement of the noble lord would not lead the house to any conclusion as to the objects of the bill. His object was to try again in the same session, to effect the admission of the Jews into that house. The noble lord had confounded the object of the act 1 and 2 Victoria, which was to prevent justice failing, while the object of the bill was to admit Jews, and set elide the deliberate judgment of the Court of Exchequer, which had determined that the words "on the faith of a Christian" were a part of the substance, and not of the form of the oath. The noble lord's attempt was a viola tioneof the spirit of the rules of Parliament, which were that a question should not be discussed twice in the same session. The object was clearly not to convince, but to overawe the other House of Parliament. (Hear, hear.) Such a course was contrary to the dignity and authority of Parliament, and he should oppose the introduction of the bill. Mr. ROEBUCK said that the words of the act let and 2d Vic, rendered the bill of the noble lord unnecessary. Let the house consult their own lawyer on the subject, and not be bound by the Court of Exchequer. That act declared that in any case whatsoever where an oath was administered, that form should be administered whichswae binding on his conscience. There was a precedent in that house in the case of Mr. Pease, who had left out the words 4 , on the true faith of a Christian." The House of Com mons were the fit judges of their own privileges as much as the House of Lords, who in the case of Baron Wensleydale had decided on their own privileges. But believing the bill to be better than the existing state of things, he should support the noble lord if he persisted, though he should prefer to see him take the bolder course, in which he was sure he would be supported by the people of this country. He was willing to brave every danger, and if the noble lord would only lead, he would find him a steady supporter. Mr. NEWDEG ITE moved the adjournment of the house. The case did not apply to the House of Lords alone, because the bill which they had rejected and the present bill would affect the House of Lords as much as the House of Commons. There was no truth in the statements that they exercised any right which they denied to that house. It was a revolutionary attempt to coerce the House of Lords in the exercise of their privileges. He therefore moved the adjournment of the house that those facts might be proved by discussion. (Time ) Mr. SALISBURY contended that the course taken was a constitutional course, he should therefore support the noble lord, while the course of the hon. member for Shef field was unconstitutionel, and he could not consent to seat Barou Rothschild by such means. The house then divided, when the numbers were— For the adjournment of the house 55 Against it lO9 Majority against the adjournment Lord J. RUSSELL , said that as hon. gentlemen seemed to be determined to oppose, ho could not help stating that he proposed to brin g in a bill quite different to that which had been rejected. He purposed to submit his bill to the House of Lords. -They might approve td• that mode of carrying the object into effect A deference appeared to be paid to the House of Lords which was not paid to the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) He was of opinion, some years ago, that the oath of that house ought to be put literally, but two cases had induced him to change his opinion. He alluded to the cases of Mr. Pease and. Mr. Armitage, who had been allowed to affirm and to leave out the words "On the true faith of a Christian." The noble lord had quoted the opinion of Baron Alderson, that those words were not introduced as a test of Christianity. His belief was that this house, in the exetche of its privileges, might admit Baron Rothschild to take an oath at the table, and to omit those words, but he should he sorry to see that course a 'opted, and it was for the purpose of obtain ing the assent of the House of Lords to what he considered a reasonable alteration of the law that he had introduced the hill. He wished the measure to be debated, but the inclination of hon. gentlemen opposite was not to have it debated ; they wished to put an end to deliberation and to all debate on the subject. (Hear.) The question was, was there any obstacle to Baron Rothschild taking his seat in that house ? It was a question concerning the consti tuency of the City and all constituencies, and if the ques tion was not discussed B aron R o th sc hild would doubtless feel it his duty to come to that table and demand to take his seat there. That inconvenience to public business could be avoided by allowing the bill to be discussed. Mr. WHITESIDE said that it was the noble lord who had rendered all discussion impossible. The honourable member for Sheffield proposed, by resolution, to break the law of the land. If the noble lord desired to have the question discussed, let him agree to the motion for the ad journment of the debate. Mr. ROEBUCK said the acceptance of the motion of ad journment of the house would have put an end to the bill. Why had they not moved the adjournment of the debate in the first instance? If Baron Rothschild came to the table and objected to utter the words, " On the true faith of a Christi In " he would move that he be admitted. After some 'further discussion, in which Lord Lovaine, Mr. Dillwyn, and Mr. N e wtlegate took part. The house divided on the question of an adjournment. The numbers were — For the adjournment Against it Majority Mr. HUME then moved the a ljournment of th e h ouse— For the adjournment • Against it Majority -46 Sir BROOKE BRIDGES rose to express a hops that en end would be put to this t i •eemly contest. He moved th , adjournment of the debate. A long discussion ensued, and ultimately the house again divided at five minutes past four— For the adjournment 49 Against it Mnjotity Lord GALWAY moved the a , journment of the house. Lord JO LIN RUSiELL ultimately consented to the ad journment of the debate to Tuesday next. Toe house adjourned at half-past, four. Sporting Intelligence. LIVERPOOL JULY MEETING.—FRIDAY. The Stanley Stakes of 15 sov:. each, 10 ft with 50 aided for two surf three year olds. Winners of 100 sovA clear thiA year 51b extra. The second to save his stake. T.Y.C. (7 subs.) Mr. Jsck -on's Terrific. 2 yre, 7st 21b (Bullock) 1 Mr. G. Hohnes's Massacre, 2 yrs, 7st 41b (Charltor) 2 Mr. Barber's Polly Peachum, 2 yrs, Tat 7tb (inc 5 extra) (Dales) 3 Handicap Sweepstakes of 5 cove each, with 20 added. T.Y.C. (5 subs.) Mr. St. George's Sans Culotte, 3 yrs, 7st Sib (Snowdon) 1 Admiral Harcourt's fi ly, by Touchstone—Ellerdale's dam, 2 yrs, Est 81b (Bullock) 2 Mr. Byrne 's Lady Aintree Otte Stormsail), 3 yrs, Bst 710 Toe Licensed Victuallers' Handicap Plate of 150 soya., added to a Sweepstakes of 5 sovs. each. The second to receive 20 soya. out of the stakes. Certain winners extra. One mile. (39 subs.) Mr. -Jackson's Saunterer, 3 yrs, 7st 121 b (in 101 b extra) Mr. Barber's Lord Nelson, 3 yrs, bit 61b ...(Dales) 2 Mr. J. Osborne's De Ginkel, 4 yrs, 6,t 41b(Challoner) 3 Saunterer took the lead after the first quarter of •a mile, made the rest of the running, and won by lour lengths ; three-quarters of a length between the second and third, bad fourth. Vandermeuiin was fifth. Bel E.peranza sixth, and All's Well seventh. Hospitality and Etlermire were the last two beaten off. The start was delayed by the fractiousness of Lord Nelson, who, ran out at starting. The Great Lancashire Produce Stakes of 10 says each, h ft, with 10) added, for 2 yr-olds ; colts, Bst 7ib ; fillies, Bst 41b ; untried stallions or mares allowed 31b ; both, 61b ; the produce of mares having bred a winner of the Derby, Oaks, or St. Leger, to carry 51b in addi tion to the original weights. The second to receive 50 sovs out of the stakes, and the third to save his stars.. T.Y.C. (20 subs.) Mr. Bowes's Star of the East, Bst 4lb (Flatman) 1 Admiral Harcourt's Sister to Ellington, Bst 61b (slb extra and 31b allowed) (Aldcroft) 2 Bates weighed for Admiral Harcourt's filly by Touch stone out of Ellerdale' dam Bat 411), and her number was displayed on the telegraph, but subsequently removed. The start for this race was considerably delayed in consequence of the uncertainty which prevailed as to what weight Sister to Ellington ought to carry. At first Aldcroft weighed Bst 21b, claiming the 31b allowanr e as specified iu the conditions. Is was afterwards decided that she was liable to the 51b penalty, her-clam having bred a winner of the Derby, and Aldcroft then weighed Bet 91b. Subsequently it was ruled that although she was liable to the penalty, still she was likewise entitled to the 31b allowance, and Aldcroft finally weiglat out Bst 61b. The betting opened at 5 to 1 on Star of the East, and closed at 5t04 on Sister to Ellington. Star of the East male play throughout, and won by a length and a half. Tne Liverpool St. Leger of 10 soya each, with 100 added, for 3-yr-olds ; colts, Bst 81b ; fill es, Bst 31b. Certain winners extra. The second to receive 50 soya out of the stakes. One mile and three-quarters (26 subs.) Mr. Mellieb's Adamas, by Touchstone, 81b (Wells) 1 Mr. J. Oeborne's Augury, Bst 31b (J. Osborne) 2 Lord Clifden's cr_lr, by Surplice, out of Blue Devil, Set 81b .. (A. Day) 3 Admiral Harcourt's Wardersmarske, Bst 81b (A)dcroft) 4 Blink Bonny was declared not to start at 1.45 p.m. Betting.--G to 4 on Adamas, 5 to 2 agst Warder mar4ke, 10 to 1 agst Augury. Sans Culotte led with Augury in close attendance, at an interval of three lengths behind them was the Blue Devils colt t iird, Wardermarske and Adamas lying off On goi g along the faraside of the course, Adamas and Wardermaske, running side by side, were upwards of 40 lengths in the rear. At the Canal-bridge turn, Sans Culotte gave way, and Augury took the lead, Adamas, from this point, gradually improving his position. Oa entering the straight, Adamas showed near the frost, and was in close company with Augury and the Blue Davila colt. At the distance the Blue Devils dropped • back, and opposite the Grand Stand Enclosure, Adamas challenged Augury, and won cleverly by three-quarters of a length, three lengths between the second and third, veryLbad fourth. Sans Ca!otte did not past the post. LATEST BETTING. GOODWOOD STAKES. 10 to 1 agst Rosati (taken) 100 to 8 agst Fulbeck (taken) GOODWOOD CUP. 6to 1 ag-t Anton (offered) 7 to 1 agst Fi:therrnan Bto 1 agst GEnirra di Vergy 9 to 1 agst Florin 12 to 1 agst Potoski ST, LEGER. 9to 4 agst Blink Bonny (taken) 100 to 6 agst Drumour (taken) Before the Liverpool St. Leger 20 to 1 was taken several times ab gut Adamas, no transactions about hu after this race came under our notice. The last day of the meeting received additional eclat from the presence of Prince Napoleon, who was londlf cheered both on his arrival on the course and on his departure. Tae business during the three days was most efficiently' conducted under the immediate superintendence of Mr. Topham, the lessee of the course, and Mr. Topham, jun. Country Markets. LIVERPOOL-JULY 17. A small attendance at our market to-clay, and there has been a very dull business. Wheat and flour considered somewhat easier in price, and Indian corn the turn dearer; white coin from scarcity bringing ed to Od per qr advance over Tuesday's value. There was no other alteration 1 0 quotations, and altogether it was a dull and unsatisfactory trade. WAKEFIELD-JULY 17. The wheat trade was dull, en I prices 2s to 3s per Os lower, but there was no great anxiety to press gales at thi s decline. Beans rather dearer. Other articles unchanged' Average prices of grain—Wheat, 65s 4id ; bailey, 411 Lid ; oats, 33s 6d ; beans, 45s 6d ; peas, 38s 0 rye, Od. EXETER-JULY 17. CORN.—Wheat, 7s 9d to 8s Od ; barley, So to 50 ea grinding do. , OF Od to Os Od. Oats, 3s 3d to Os Oct' Beans, Os 0(1 to 0 Od. Peas, 00s Od to 00s Od. FLOUR. —Fine, 44s Od to 46a Od ; seconds, 42s Od to 44/ 0, Oct per sack. CATTLE. —There was a small supply of bullocks. mast beef, from 10s to 11s 6d per score ; inferior, 9s 6d to 119 per score ; fat calves, 5d to 6d per lb ; barrenners, Os Od to 0! Od. per score ; cows and calves, 121. to 20/. tie ; buteher A calves, Od to 7d per lb., rearing calves —s to s each; sheep, ewes and lambs,'2l. 5s to 3/. Os per couple; owes, Od to'Gd ; wethers, 6d 6 id ; lambs, 7 h to Oct per lb. Fig s, large size, —s to —s ; second size, —8 t o --fit ' • s lips, to —s ; suckers, —s to --- s. Rough fat, Old per 1 1 "' Pork carcases from lls Od to lls 6d per score. BRISTOL SUGAR—JuLY 17. Our market continues much depressed both for raw 1 1 refined, and the transactions in either description are ° the most retail character, and not sufficient to fix price' Ruin is much wanted, but there is very little offering. ;T.—Jazz the close of the market. Wralsend, ,tt o. 0 u i graddyll l7 38 6 Lam bton South Hetton 18 6 Russell's Hetton 17 6 South Kelloe 17 0 Hough Hall 17 9 3tewart's . IS 6 Hunwielc l5 6 'Hartlepool Hetton 17 4'56; sold, 39. COAL MARK Prices of Coals per ton at s. Walker Primrose 13 6 Wylam Morpeth West Hartley 16 6 Wallsend, ace. _ _ Tees l9 0 Riddell l6 0 Eden Main l7 Montague Garesfield l4 0 Whitworth l6 0 Acorn Close l7 3 Ships at market B I R T,II S. OF A EON. On the 15th inst., at 1 a, Argyle-place, Regent-stree t ' Mrs. Charles IL Savory. On the 17th inst., at the Lindens, Croydon, the wife Charles Bouts, Esq. Or A Dimiuna. On the 17th inst., at 14, Dorchester-place, Blandford' square, the wife of Thomas C. Sandars, Esq. On the 17th inst., at the Elms, W an d swor tl Pcom mofis Mrs. Charles Lamert. MARRIED. On the 15th, at Trinity Church, Marylebone, Jobil Cunliffe, Esq., of 1, Upper nyde-park-street, to gs„ 11 1 youngest daughter of the Rev. Ridl e y H ersc h e l] , o f 141 Glocester-terrace, Flyde-park.' • On the 16th inst., at St. Paul'., Islington, Robert, onif son of Mr. Robert Duchesne, of F enc h urc h •s t reet, to Vol' eldtst surviving daughter of the late Mr. James Barn es ' of Lombard-street. DIED On the 16th inst., at 1.6, Fiusbnry-circus, Isaac Folign° Esq., aged 66. On the 17th inst., Mr. Wm. Mace, of 3, Carlisle Ville' Bow, Middlesex, aged 76. .a On the 16th i ns t . , at 3, Caen-terrace, Highgate, Davii Foggo, E sq ., l a t e H ead Master of Dacca College, Ben gal' aged 72. On the Ir,th inst., at Hove, Brighton, William So -110 Leathern, Esq., marine artist, aged 42. lls On the 16th i ns t., su dd en l y , a t th e Alb any , Cambercve Mr. J. S. Yeats. On the 16th inst., at Wandsworth, Mr. James Hicks °/3 ' aged 72. On the 16th inst., at Stepney, Robt. Old, Esq., fort:l3 oi/ of Leytonstone, Essex, aged 57. Job On the 16th inst., at Stanley Rock, New Brighton, Twiname, Esq., aged 72. LONDON : Printed and Published by KURD° Yaljt o : of No, 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Officer ' ff 112, Strard, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the Con n of Middlesex, Saturdaj, July 18, 1557.