The Sun. — London, England, 1806-05-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. fRiDAY, - . MAY 16; The Irouse proceedeilfas usual to Westminster- Hall, and - returned abdiii half past three, when an order was made to prOceed further on the 'Trial of Lord Melville to-rnorrciy‘i,- and a Message sent tc) the House of Cornmons,. - to acquaint them therewith. The Mutiny Bill, the Irish Loan. Bill, and the IriSh Treasury Were read a second' time and committed for"to=morrow:' 7' • ' . . vv .... The House'adjoiiin:ed . dUring pleasure. They met again about five o'cloac, When the Lord Advocate of Scotland, Mr. A. Smith, Mr. Graham, , and several other Members of•rtrt Fflltikt ef Comm Ons, brought up the Stotch Judges' SAldq Augrriebtaqon Bill, and two Private Bills; which were read a first time. ipDGE FOX, Lord. GREIV.VI:LL E, -adverting. to . the. Order. for Mlnday,:relAtive to..the .attendance. of .Witnesses in the,case.of.Mr.. justice. Fox, observed, that it WAS evidently impossible for-the House to take that into consideration on,so:early...a` day,. and there fore' he, sliwuld .kneprly, move.. to discharge the 'Order . for Monday,,,and, ( rene.w it.for: the 30th inst. which Motion, he was authorized 'to say, had the consent of the Noble :Marquis . Abercorn).with whom the bu siness originated... The' Duke 'oPCUMEEELYND said he .was also - authorised by'his Noble Friend to state that he had no objeaion - to the prekiit Motion: He tru,3ted, bowever;thai . inkostpOning the Order, itfvvould not be uuderstoolthat it vas to be deferred sine die. _ After a few words in explanation from, Lord GRENVILLE, the-Ordei wasitiScharged, - and fixed for the 3oth instant . ADDITIONAL FORCE Lord GRENVILLE - moved, that the Additional Force Repeal ,Bill should be read a second time on Monday, and the Lords be summoned. Lord .1441VICESBURY expressed a wish 'that a longer interval . might be allowed.' It was under stoodthat there were other subje&s conne&ed with the repeal,of this 8i11 ,,- upon which "he' wished for information; and respeling which he thought a further time . ought to be all Owed for their considera-. tion. His principal reason, however, for rising was, to ask a Auestion Of the Noble Lord. He had heard that it had been proposed in another place •to alter • the .constitution of the Army, by enlisting for a limited time. He willed to know ,whether there Ikas any intention to that efiea on the part of His Majesty's Ministers Lord GRENVILLE denied that there was :any connexion between the present . Bill and other mea-. 'sures that it was: supposed by the Noble'Lord were intended to be brought forward; Whether any other measures were to be proposed or not he should s4ll consider the repeal of this Bill' as a measure of sound and wise poiicy. With respe4 to the qUestion of "..the Noble Lord, it 'applied to what was irregularly known: with respe& to something that had been stated. in the House of Commons.' He 'could only, say upon this subjea, that the 'House of Colianons would decide upon any such propositions: according to their own judgment; and that this House could not be supposed to know any thing that passed in the other House until it came regularly before them. The Bill as ordered to:beread a'second th - ne:on Monday, and the. Lords. to be summoned. • SLAVE. TRADIE On the third reading of the Slave 'lmportation Re stii6tion Bill, • .The DUKE of CLAREACE rose ,to call the at tention of the House to the importance of the trade, which would be very seriously affeeled if the present passed.intoa law. The number of Negroes im ported.by us from Africa amounted to about 33,000, which about . 2 , 2,000 were afterwards exported to Vorei'gn cblonies.. This trade t ? mployed a consider- , a hie tonnage Of Shipping, bet Ween 4 and 5000 Sea ::en, and 1,000,0001.:Ot British capital. If the Bill Massed, a large proportion of thiS trade would, of Course; be entirely destroyed. His Royal Highness r..,-stated some of his fonner arguments against the VW, and concluded by moving to leave out that part of the title which expressed the purpose of prevent ing our supplying Foreign•dolopies with Slaves. Earl qf SUFFOLK spoke generally against the Slave Trade, which lie viewed with great ab, horrence. He suggested the expediency of employ= lag - Sepoys from the List Indies in our West India 4;olonic.S, or bending thither labourers from the Cape of Coed Hope. , He supported the, Bill origrbdildi /'f policy, and as it-tended to contribute towards the abolition of the. Slave Trade, • •• Tho Bit of LONDON was decidedly in favour pf -the Bill upon similar grounds. The argument which was urged . With the greatest force, in fayou'r of the Slave' Trade., that it was absolutely nee cessary for the . cultivation of our West India.Colo pies ; but w4s the necessity of supplying the;',- coluniP lol rivals with -Slaves? It was- surely , : guilt enough to carry on the ,trade for 'the supply of, r own Islands ; but to do so for the supply ofthe, Colonies of our rivals,. wits a sort of quixotism in pritnipaiiTwhicks,he trusted would• soon be at an prove r ; however; that the Slave Trade WZI.. udt necessary to keep up the stock of Slaves, his Lordship read a letter, fronva Nieniher of the liduse of Delegates, in Virginia, stating, that after the importanoh, of, Slaves., Was - prohibited, the Black population increased 15,000 in,number in_fotir years, The Earl of IVES (WORLAND considered that 'trai-t of the Bill.which it was, tire objett of the . trious 'puke' to do away; as- tending pot only to de stroY' a large proportion,pf.the trade alluded to by the illustrious Duke, but also the trade carried on to the Spanish Colonies in AmeriCa, wider the cover of 'expoitiog'SlaVes, and which created a market for : . ).,000,D0p1.. of Brilish roanntaCtores. He did not objed to that part of the Bill which 'prohibited sUP-' . , plying with Slaves Colonies taken during war, as in the e‘,ent of t heir being Surrendered, the British capital • employed only went to enrich the Enemy.. With respeCt to the Abolition of the Slave Trade, the trade . badbeen carried On for a long series of 'years under ;he ablest Ministers whom this Country had seen, and who never thought of abolishing it ; the idea of the Abolition first -originated alew years past anions Atheists, li.nthusiasts, Jacobins, and such'de- :;cripOorts . of persons.• If they doubted his statements with respeCt to the-amount of the trade carried on, eyidepcp lie called to the 13ar to prove, or disprove • them, but at lenst,the Honse ought to pause before tiiey consented to destroy a trade of such magnitude, particularly .-at' a tithe yrilion: our commerce ;lad's() many diffionities to encounter. The arguro.mt that supplying Foreign Colopies'N'vith Slaves enabled them 'to rival us in the market, was one directly in favour of the Slave Trade. ► The. 'lGlargiiis of SLIGO was of opinion- that the operatioh of the Bill would be ruinous to the Island of JamaiCa. • L6rd HOLLAND believed, on the contrary, that the Planters of Jainaica; and the West India Planters in general, were friendly to . the -Bill, as one tending to benefit their :interests He considered the Noble Earl ; (Westmorland) as inconsistent in his argument, ivhen he wished to - prohibit the supply .of the ço lonieswe, had conquered, with Slaves, and .at the same time was•deeirous of supplying the Colonies of ()Ur HedOnbted the correaness'of the statement with respea to the trade With . the Spanish Colonies, as he believed that there no longer -existed.any he cessity for carrying . on that trade under the cover of ex.: porting Slaves, and indeed 'it was cleat; if flioy wanted 'British Manufa&ures, that British manufaaures would find their way there: ,He declined going over the arguments which had been so often used respe6ling the Slave Trade if the present Bill tended, as had been stated, to contribute to the abolition of that ne- Tarious traffic, it was, in his mind, a paramount argu inent in its. favour.. The Earl of WESTMORLAND explained. After d few words from the 'Marquis of• BLAND FORD, The Bishop of St. AsAril spoke in strong terms of condemnatioh of the Slave Trade, Whieh he \yogi& do every thing in his power,-either by fair means or foul, to ,abolish. Lord EI.DON could not reconcile to his mind the doe - trine of the Right Reverend Prelate. lie had not hitherto been able to make up his' Mind respect ing the propriety of abolishing the . Slave Trade ; but if it could be prOved_to him that . a nntnber, of his fellow-sribjeets would not. be utterly ruined by such a measure,. he would be a sincere friend to the abo, • It was in -the same point:ci View that he considered the present. Bill; , • • The Bishop of. St. ASAPH, in explanation, .said, that lie did not mean , that - any•dishonest means sh9tild be- used, but that every means - Ought to be retorted to for - the purpose. of abolishing the Slave Trade. . .:The Earl' of DARNLEY Spokein favotir of the Bill. The .DUKE of GLOUCESTER expressed himself decidedly hostile to. the Slave Trade, and hoped the `tithe was not far distant.when it- would be abolished. Lord GRENVILLE defended the Bill, end-de clared hii utter abhorrence of the Slave Trade. The Bill, he 'contended, was a - measure of policy and ii manity. As to the 'argument that Other nations Would supply-the Colonies of our Rivals with slaves, if, we gave . up the trade--:-how .were they te , do it with any chance of security'cr profit whilst we bad the coininand of the ocean, ? -Besides % were- we to commit -crimes and injustice because - other-nations committed them ? If the measure tended 'to ,pro mote the abolition Of the SlaVe Trade, so "much. die ";better ; it was with-him, an , argument that weighed every . other, for the'Ossing of the Of Sweden there was no ;doubt ; and America, in the course of IG - ort months, would abolish thiS • trade, every State but that of South Carolina having already aboli.iF.:.d it. It was an erroneous opiniCTX that British mpairdaturcs . were, - couveyed- to the Spanish Colonies by means of carrying a fecv ; Slave,S as a pretext. I.3ut he should most unequivocally de clare, that a single - article of British manufacture would-be sn.tlicient to cause .the tonliSeation of' the ship and cargo, whether Slaves; or any: established article of commerce. Lord RAWKESBURY opposed the Bill. If- a case ofjustice or humanitythad'been made out, he. should: immediately give the Bill hiS support., But Foreigners, he was apprehensive, would carry on trade in a mapnermuch more contrary-to these prin ciples than the subjects of the British Empire.. Lord ELLENBOROUGH gave his support to the measure then before the House, and -conceived, it to be formed on the same principle as the Order in Council passed in a former Administration. - Lord EIDON rose to explain. His Lordship was proceeding to enter more minutely into the subjeel, when he Was called to order by the Earl of Lauder dale. The sense of the House appeared to be in favour of the . Noble Earl, and the Noble and 'Learn ed:Lord sat down: Lord SlD:goy:pi declared that he could never look at this traffic without feelings of disgust . and shame. The' Earl of BUCKibiGiiANISHIRE assured their Lordships that it appeared manifest , to him that the interest of • our West India Colonies would be con siderably advanced by this measure. Lord AUCKLAND informed their Lordships that he, in conjun&ion with others, endeavour6d, in the year 1788,,t0 bring the `different commercial nations tez .p general . agr,:,‘2ment ,to discontinue this trade. The }'reach Revolution, ho\t'ever, broke out and prevented this general extensive regulation or under stan4ing, which appeired to him to be fin- more-bene 7 ficial to the cause of justice and humanity than any local prehiLielon. • After a few words from-the Duke of ‘Su - ssE . x . 'and -Lord axEFFIELD against the Bill,. the Duke of CLA RENCE eXpl3lllpC The liouSe then divided, .and the numbers were, For the Original Motion, Contents 5:3 Not COntent .. Majority 3. The Bill was h after that majority, read a third time and passed. The' House then adjourned, at Twelve o'Clock, until Ten o'Clock to-iaorrow (this) morniii2,-. HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY, g:# .., A Message was received from the Lords stating, that their Lordships would proceed farther in the Trial of Lord Melville to-mo, - -row morning, at ten o'clock. SirJON NEWPORT brought up the Irish Malt Duty Bill ; which was read 4 first time. Sir JoHNNEwronT'galiouotice of his intention to move, on Monday, torlGave to bring in certain Bills conne6t Affairs with the Airs of Ireland; and; among others,.a Bill-tor Lighting the Streets of Dublin. Mr. 41.:EXA-NPE brought up the 'Be . port of the • Property Tat Bill, the farther consideration of v, - hich was postponed till Mondpy. The Reports of the Irish Stan* Duty and Distil lery Bills were brought up and agreed to, and ihe Bills were ordered to be read . a third time on M6n day. The Irigh enstonit Duty Bill was reported, and, after a few words-from Mr. FosTER, who inquired if the Duty on Iron was comprehended in it, was. ordered to be read a third time on Tuesday. Lord. OSSULSTON informed the 'Rinse, that His Majesty had been pleased. to order • certain Reports to he laid before them, agreeably to the Addresses of the House. BARRACK DEPARTMENT. Mr. ROBSON rose, agreeably to notice, to move for ..certain Papers relative, to. the Barrack Depart ment. About five years ago he had called the at tention of the House to this Department. He had then taken the opinion of the House on the subjeets' . :s•tibrnitted by him 3 but no notice was taken of Ibis' suggestions, and even of his earnest remonstrances. If they had, the Nation 'woUld now have • been' saved the disgraceful sight which the Papers on the Table exhibited. Of late years the expences inthis Department had increased in a very rapid degree, add, for • the last year, amounted to 1,700,0001. The extent of this expence was a subject well deserving of consi derationi and, in his opinion,' was . paramount to any other duty he had to, perform. It was nor his wish to go into any detail. He did not suppose there' Was any.disposition to withhold from him the Pipers he vyished to , have produced; if there I..iottld be any such disposition, he would . beg to be heard in .reply.' He then moved for a List of Barns taken, and'employed as Barracks, in Sundown Bay, Isle of Wight, specifying the sums paid 'for the same, and the rate of such payment; from • the time 'at which the same were taken, until the 25th of Dec: 1805, inclusive. _ , Mr. JAMES MARTIN seconded the Motion. • Lord HEATRYPE7TY declared that he had no intention to ob'je& to the Motion. He begged, how ever; to recall to the recolleaion of the Hon:Gentle- Man and of the House, that a Military - Cortimiss;ion was in existence, to whose investigation any. subje& Of this kind more properlytelonged; and, be sub- mitted if their Report was not the proper mode of getting at the conclusion, not by any inSulated'faa which the Papers to be moved for might tend to produce. ~ • . Mr. ROBSON said,- if - he had not knpwn the contrary; he should have-thought it was tlae ghost -of - the deceaSed Minier which now addressed These were the very_ words ,used by hirn.on i s ' former occasion. Believing as :he 'that the question. should be sifted . 'to the bottom, he., should proceed. The Report of the Military' Commission had lain On the Table.• for six weeks without any notice being taken, :of it - by any Mefriber of: the' House. Of course, he - was called onin duty to go on. Should it be told him, that he had not right to iniluiro. into the. Public Expenditure; boause there was a Committee sitting ? What was he but one - of the Guardians of •the Public Purse ? and 'he not in titled-to see, independently of any Committee, that its affairs were properly managed ? He recolleeled that four or five years ago he had obje&ed to giving -money to Gen: De Lancey. ' Then the same - answ& 'was made to -him- 4 Oh, Do not interfere, you' •Eave nothing, to say in the matter ; there is a Com - mittee appointed,to investigate Military Affairs, and to their determination must you leave it." His ob je6,t in making . his present Motion 3,vas, to point out. where,the evil existed, and to take care that no such practice should prevail in future. Lord HENRY PETTY stated, that he' had 'al ready said he 'had no obje6tion to the Motion.— beg'6;red, however, 'that it should be recollected by the House, that he had given "notice of a Mo tion relative to the Report of the Military Commis sioners, the very first opportunity; before it had been laid before the House. '' The Motion. was then agreed to. • - Mr. RoßsoN then moved for a Copy of a Letter to the late Secretary at War from alb Barrack- Master at Sandown;• in the Isle of Wight, datcd the 29th Of December, 1805; relative to the -Building Barracks at Brady. • Mr. PERCIVAL submitted, whethCr any question of this kind, or any abuse; if such were charged to exist in the building 'of such Bi=:rracks, might not, With greater propriety, be referred to the Committee appointed to examine into Military Affairs?. Mr. RoßsoN thought he was entitled to the Thanks of the House, if he could bring any mai, administration of the Funds of the Country, before the House. He - was probithly informing certain Gentlemen of what . they knew already. In .again urging . .the propriety - of the question, Mr. Robson described the Letter.to be onefrom the Secretary at War, not to him ; and persevered. in this state ment, . . The . SPEAKER informed him it was differently ex pressed in the' written Motion. Mr. ROBSON then said it was as expressed in the Paper. This created 'a 'considerable degree of laughter in the House. Mr. PAULL remarked on the levity of proceeding in that manner, when the Question before the House .was an Inquiry into a profuse Expenditure of she Public Money. Lord HENRY PETTY asked, How, it could be, said•.. that the House acted with levity in seeming dis inclined to countenance a :','.)lion, of the nature of which the Mover. seemed so - completely 'ignorant ? :He was convinced the House would never be de terred by aufside-.view refiekaions of the kind from discountenancing such Motions ; and be hoped the Hon. Gentleman would reserve all expressions simi lar to that which' had now fallen .from Ern, till the• condua of the House should a little better warrant . him . in using them. Afterra few observations from Mr. RosE, Mr. W. SMITtI, and Mr. ADDINGTON, Mr: CALcr„iier said; that from the uncertain state in which .the Hon. Member stood as 'to what he wished,.. be found himself warranted in moving . the previous Question. • Mr. ROBSON declared, that if he did pot think the House competent to interfere in such a business, he would resign his scat. What relief could any per suffering under injustice,.have, if a Member of Parliarbent durst not state his case.? And what would the world . think.when they saw Gentlitnen on the Treasury Ilencli couptenance the idea, Olaf Po in vestigaticin into money transnaio3s of tile Co•.:ntry lay with. that House ? , Lord HENRY Pl:l'l'Y did 'not deny the.power of the House to enter tratO any inquiry cf the kind. All he contended for was, that having once dele gated their power, they could not properly again proceed without shewing some reason or ground Ibr the inquiry. Mr. MARTIN found himself called onto stand up in defence•of a Gentleman :who wished. to see jus tice done to the Public and the Country. . :The Question was then put, and negatived with out a division. Mr. ROBSON , again stood up to move for a Copy of Proposals from the Barrack-Master of Sandown Bay to . the Secretary at War, on the part of Mt.' James Day, of Brady, relative to the building of, Barracks there. The :Previous doestion he re, garded as a poor way of 'getting quit of a subject of ,such importance ; and he begged it to be remarked, thakthis•was the way in which it was attempted to get the better of the Tenth Report, which, but for him, would never have made its appearance, ~ b ut . which had since occupied the attention of. that ;• House, and of the . world ; and such was-also -tire way in which his Motion on the 10. los, Bill was • got the better of. After some, farther, conversation,. the Previous ,ClUestion was also moved on this ,Motion, and on . the other Motions Whieh the Honourable Member had to propose ; ; all of whiCh'lyere negatived with• rout divisions. 1 • LORD WELLESLEY • 'Sr asked if the .Honotirable : Gentleman (Mr; Paull)"- had fixed on the :day' on which he was to bring forward the Motion against Lord Wellesley relative-to Oude ? Mr. PAULL tnentionedMonday , week ; but, on the suggestion of the,SPeaker,,fixed it for the first day after. the Holidays ; stating, that he should lay the Charge on the Table, and at the same time move for Witnesses to be calledin, and also fora few Pa pers in support Mr. PAULL then moved, that the Order of a ,former day for the:produeion of the Protest taken by Mr. Bosanquet against an Approval by the Court `of Dire6tors of Lord Wellesley's "Conduct .be dis charged.. He stated that this Motion had been made by Min under the impression 'that he had li berty to do so if any of the Board of Cuntroul happened to be ptesent. He accordingly had done so—but found next day that he had laboured under a misconception.; and would therefore, as he had Offered, have ithmediately Moved for,rescinding the Order, had it been of any immediate consequence. He now moved that the Order be discharged, mean ing,'on .some future.occasion,.to move that the Pa per be produced 4 as well as a Dispatch whiCh had fortnerly been moved for by a Noble Lord, and ' then refused, 'though, unquestionably it must .n)li mately be produced. After a few words from Mr. AIiDINGTON and CREEV,EY, the Order was accordingly dis . Charged. MILITARY REPORT. Lord HENRY PETTY rose to .rrinve that the House should go into a Committee of Supply, but befOre hedidsohe Would take.the opportunity olgiv ing I - pore...specific notice than-he had as yet given respeaing an affair which had for some time back en gaged- the attention of the House and the 'Public— he. meant the Report of the Military Commission, now lying on the Table. He before stated that the: atiention of Ministers had been turned to thiS sub jeCt, and that a general system was pre.pariug for. the rnanagement of the -Public Accounts: He now stated that on "Wednesday next' he would propoie a new iViiiitary. Commission, for investigating Abuses committed in the West Indies—but as that. only fornied,a .part of the general system, he trusted he would be allowed on that day to enter sQl;ge.-v4at at. length into the nature of the ;measures relative to the Public ACcOunts Which Government had in .comem plation. - Healso gave - notice that on MOnday next he would, in the t...'orrrnitt.e of Ways and Means, propose a new Tax in ilea of the iron eon• ducted by moving, :Inat the- House. do go into a '- Committee of Supply, '• Mr. SMITH rose to. move that the Report of tfT Committee Messrs. Chalmers-and•C4iwies• Petition should be, referred 'tp the Committee. He trusted lie had shown that, he had never been dis- . posed to give away the . public money on any Occa sion that did not strongly call for it. But though he was now about to propese that a : large sum should be voted forcertain individuals, he on iy in doing so did justice to those indiyidtials aid to the Country.- He then stated the case in nearly the same terms as he did On a tOrmer occasion, when moving for the Com mittee to' consider the Petition. In the year 1800, when the. scarcity was so, great, it was suggested to the Committee of Provisions that a large supply of :Herrings might begot for this Country and her Co lonies from SWeden. Messrs. Chalmers 'and Cowie .undertook the. business, and a Bill .was passed' .to permit the importation free of duty.. About a fort night after the. Bill, passed, in ; consequence of the dispute with the Northerni2owers, an EMbargo was lald on viieclisti Vessels; and the . efrea of this was, that the adventure' totally failed - , for Governtnent had not .granted proteeions for importing the- Her- Tings, though they lead been purchaSed.. An im mense loss was incurred, snd it was under these -circumstances that coMpensation was required. Tile loss was proved by sufficient vouchers. But, it was said, that the loss, might have been Inenrred though 'there had been no Embargo, and that these Mer• chants had the monopoly of thiS business, and that the chance of greatprofit ought to be set off against the loss. He contended ile:t the loss .would not have been incurred -had it not been for the Em bargo, and that the Merchants had not the mono .poly of the . business, for that the transaCtion Nvasi perfectly known to the Public, and ,any one might have engaged in . it. As to the Treasury Minute that had been drawn up before the .case had 'been referred tea Committee, and as the Minister of the day had agreed to refer the matter to a Committee-, this was 'a proof that he had formed no decided opi nion upon it. These Merchants had certainly cal culated on a reasonable profit, about 12001. on a capital of 30,0001. He only wanted for them, ho%yever, the difference between the inoney laid out of their pockets and that received into them. To this, even on the principles stated in the Treasury Minute, they were intitled, as the transaction was such as supposed. an implied pledge, that the par;• ties would be indemnified against any loss from, such a cause as this, He coOluded by uoying,