The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-05 00:00:00

'1 it. :tuf e gc tut' r her 4 the' tc' itte , es 11 / 1 etlclelo 1 - q the l ti s / rrott., tiler he should refuse them those powers that appeared to be abso (Roar, ,_ ecessary for the security of life and property in Ireland. er m d i near• ) Were they to allow that system to continue which now rou ed in Ireland, or were they to put it down by a strong and hi g. Ile,etThrt I Such were the alternatives that were presented to end to this in his conscience, believed that it was necessary to put an such _ us syste m of terror and intimidation ; and he believed that if '4,,,.,, t:'• m easure as th a t now proposed had been introduced two years 114 would have saved them from that which now imperatively stroll ion them to act. The state of Ireland did, in his opinion, acted! Y demand a measure of this nature. Ministers had hitherto stream with respe c t to that country, unwisely. They had allowed the to an to swell to a river—they had permitted the snowball to increase Power: ‘:alanch e ; and now it was necessary to call for extraordinary great attention oriler effectually to check the evil. Ile had listened with ,esntion to the hon. member for Leeds, and one of that hon. me m b er observations struck him very forcibly. The hon. member h a e r t' u _ e _ d a , that this measure was not, in tact, an abridgment of liberty, With liberty did not exist in Ireland. He had described Ireland, The r C.aPect to liberty, to be in a worse state than Algiers. When fro saliesed to make a good use of the liberty which they enjoyed as rh e y___ ... .ets the consequence ever must be, that until they understood kn_t__rl interests better that liberty- must be partially curtailed. He t ., 7 . that it Was a difficult task to put an end to that headlong career It'in!urbanee by which Ireland had too long been distinguished ; but ,„;!, , i owed to the empire at large, and what he more imme di ate l y te,ll%te that country, urged him to this p a i n f u l sacrifice of private t y l iz , and h owever he might regret the necess ity, b e i ng assured that . Al t r Were found e d injustice,- he should vote l'or this measure. :whi ch .__lters O'CONNOR expressed his indignation at the course 'tha t _um, trusters had adoPted. No evidence whatever had been given a , ne ',! . _ el lead to the confusion that the state of Ireland required such a n i n Ture.. Had any thing been advanced to impress on the mind of woomtartial man the conviction that such a bill was necessary ? He rais • "ldlY answer, " No." Ministers had for their own purposes -ee th e am no _expectations of the people of Ireland to the highest pitch, g ra , e ti 71..10r their ow . n purposes again, they were smothering in the lier ear 'e 'lopes to which their conduct had given rise, and over which, leatiier, the tears of repentance would assuredly fall. The him, and fr om I ,`Meirilier for Leeds, spoke of Mr. O'Connell receiving tribute . man 2_B countrym en ; but Ini asked the hon. gentleman whether, if a £ls,4i ) e up a valuable possession that brought him in £14,000 or anyii,,! a -Year ( " Oh, oh," and laughter)—well, X2.,0:10 or £l,OO0 — Ott „,_‘9 tfie house pleased; but he again aaked, whether a man was the Irish to compensation under such eireunista.necs ? He calledn rrian "'sh members to resist the bill ; and asked whether there wawa the? l'au)Pg ati4c those sitting on th e b enches around him who would not ra delifiiess on te Amer tan contaminate hi by signing the res ?r h ant of his country ? h (Great laughter.) Ile He asserted that the -,, ;; L '`,'l t iteasur e was only preparatory to the stab that was hereafter to me i uto.ed on this country-, and besought members to look dispassion th -. 3l „ at t he.euestion, before concurring in it. , he asked c ri.,ht lion Sir awhetherit with such an act that he meant to f et i . • e c p.ry Pon a non the constitution, to defend it with bayonets and daggers— Petier feeble guards compared with the affections of an insulted ta' • , manner -mom, under the circumstances of the bill, and the peculiar the , er in which it was calculated to apply to Ireland, would claim r ,,,,Vagenc e of the house. It was to him. a subject of particular p'o end eg t o . e obliged to Come to a decision. Connected with the inde interest he had always wished to extend the popular prin ciPle the ' az ,, to . e utmost degree that was consistent with the constitution te . , t , public safety ; beyond that limit he never had gone. He would botteard!acritice practical security to theoretical advantage. He was lane in conscience to state that the situation of some parts of Ire -1,„ , _as such, :Ind the intimidation so great, that the law could not ~;th'7,e,nforeed, and in those parts stronger measures were necessary ; 'ee circumstance should be so defined as to make it impossible to rs . t nd the measure to unoffending districts. But in voting for the th e tle rf ia( l ing he h e ld himself 'perfectly free to oppose or to modify th e e . alb '. He voted according to the dictat6s of his conscience a t eiliat xpens e of his feelings. lie must observe, with respect to domi arid tfl a l'isita, he was of opinion that great caution should be used,. to s h ow t , , , , regulati on should be made requiring the men of , the family polic e ne.ntselves at the door, so as to render it unnecessary for the hi s i _,° l ' Military to enter houses. (Hear.) In conclusion he repeated „are_ption to vote for the bill. intte•el.n.ay said that if the measure' was right in principle it should be ueliti.atelysadopted, but if wrong it ought not to be passed at all. eo erei 'Xed 0 widely from the course of policy, whether remedial or th at lop ' adopted by ministers in reference to Ireland—h e conceived easo oy to b e s o ill adapted to allay disturbance, that he could not lt. ,y be himself to give his vote for the bill on this occasion. able thethat the speech of the right hon. Secretary, eloquent and t .,';'' as it undoubtedly was had this defect—that it was directed to ~:,7_pa_ssions rathe r than to' the judgment of the house,—that it in ro,Zri_secaodrrielluesifoanta,l error of arguing from particular instances to a gene and proceeded on the assumed necessity of legislating count tial views and grounds for the general interests of the whole riesertrYen' Ile denied that this question was Irish—(hear, hear,)—he that it was English,—vitally, essentially, English. W hy, a resourcewould tot, was not Ireland, with its 8,000,000 of people, as great wea us in peace as in battle ? Why was it now a source of ou g h t n fea ? Instead of adding her 8,000,000 do our population we gr eat linideduct them from our numbers. Why were our taxes so lion ? w t e was hecauie Ireland did not . contrthute her fair proprotr '"? It at was the remedy for the evils which overwhelmed I -- an ant It .was to do justice to that country ; to make the union not f or t tir in name only, but in reality. It had been urged, as a ground so rtie s ? cas ure,—first, that an hon. and learned member meditated N dia - it i- eine of Irish independence ; secondly, that he had made a 8 41:0;,.. SPeeeh—(hear •) and, thirdly, a doggrel ballad. Notwith had i';`„°•g all the taunts 'with which that hon. and learned gentleman hith e - rea 'visited, he had -et to learn that all his objects had not he bel9,been granted - by die British Parliament (bear ;) and should dr ess „N, that because that hon. and learned member did not ad of a "le nouse in good set phrases, and speak with all the softness t ion a m- h a l t ing gentlewoman 'hear, and a laugh,)—for this indiscre ptibe eauoll Was tO sutiL•r 1 (Hear.) That was legislating, not on and i e e . .. but on party grounds. With all respect towards that hen. tatiee.l,l gentleman he thought he was made of too muce impor-_ the e h, 'e Could -not but think that the collection of the renre of a s k ed c ch had something to do with the measure of severity new Lill, h t ', 4l. ,_. (" Question.") Although he did not approve of the I _ Af a i n '. B „,,nould not oppose the first reading. (A laugh. ) . uta ls e''',,' oEaucufax said it had been admitted on both sides of the raise hat the great cat.se of the evils of Ireland was the distress and ?th e i.Y.s that unfortunate land ; and be would ask gentlemen . on the oe en Ple °f th e house why it was unfortunate ? Because , it lead 44 1, il t o ° l Years misgoverned and mismanaged ; and they were pin, o 4eit ita caner injuries a wrong still greater than any. If the _inmae !a. twa,..aanction to such a scheme, he would regret he belonged to it. 1 , 11 th s ''') The hill would turn the attachment of every honest man +ri s h„ - country into hatred ; and if he (Major Beauclerk) was an them e ''' 4ll , he 'Should have that feeling engraved on his heart, and if kr, T asu 'e Passed the house he would not obey it out of the house. 4cy (4-ENNaltn said that if he had had any doubt respecting the .po lag , n , this bill, that doubt would have been removed by the convnic- Tre ir e e . e cli of th e right lion. Secretary for Ireland last night. Th.ere noble -- ,„- , q)Ported thou., , h reluctantly, the measure proposed bythe 'de a d ru, and iia' dolna . so he thought he showed himself a warm Lee e Ireland ''' at th e r_e?.l o tserro N was quite sure that the anxiety of his noble friend lole tir ' a at!, f the government of Ireland to delay having recourse tJ `sge th au arbitrary measures was quite equalled by his anxiety to lea °se measures 'spar:llol.y • and he verily believea that the know ejiti elOtie of his h - ' r , i;oss'essed of the power would operate hene tor 3 ' , without n el -' -.' and induce • many to rally round the e,..„._.us exercise, be r ruent in support of order and for the protection ofand ka te l h ' (Hear, hear.) He was convinced that many who n t. ow, wouldtea of terror and agitation which was in ope , ra ion, blea t ~;nunediy show themselves, when the powers of the acid 4 ti of ere c orroborated, and unite in maintaining the peace and se - ~ Ir. L . I: 3 ' Fornmunity, (Loud . cheers.) . . an on „ 1 - twRR rose amidst conflicting cries of " adjourn" and ''hich ' and moved the adjournment of the debate till rto*-01-prrow— kett 1 .) ; after som e observations from Lord . Althorp, A . Connell, i Petiti • Baldwin, was carried without a division. FRIDAY. Al, b Petitions were presented against the Irish Disturbance Bill byy s; - •„;-). KIN fl o • th Wallingford Political Union, and o f Mt 4 '• NA GL U E from the parishes - of Castleton, in the county ito,,, e ata, and Kilbritten, in the county of Westmeath. Mr. itig-o-f tat the Chamber of Commerce, Limerick, complain also tat maladministration of the corporation of that city; Ni t , Petition from the leather sellers of the same place, corn taaeti'lli of a tax levied on that article by the corporation, and 4011ap.ef from the-parish of Mr. Mary, Limerick, praying the tttsh; - ‘ O.- itistitate an inquiry into the s tate of I relan d, previ . ' '' t ° Passin g the coercive bill. - kr BL ADJOURNED DEBATE. • Wa s eLW ER would venture to make one suggestion, which t he' ~,""at if the amendment for deferring the introductioia of thenTeasure. for a fortnight were agreed to, the house would ha v- be enabled to ascertain the result of the assizes, and thus heres ala opportunity of knowing whether the grounds which tow f , Pnt forward as the apology for grunting extraordinary kist ep s t 0 the g - e government were correct. He did not think nit- Ac e ' s ; were consistent in making use of the threat of quitting . eo e ,, e .' the event of their not being able to pass . the measure of 1'„ 1.°4 . Such a threat might have been in place in former .I)46,rt!.yilti,lietuotis, p b ol u i t cy ii! the present question became one not of ti t 7 ,-,EnauE GREY supporie., the bill. . t r uth'n7• W. HARVEY did not mean to imply a doubt of the 1 etie "` the noble lord's case, or of the sincerity of his infe ad qu o te es t he would confidently maintain that the noble lard nt 1:d ho case of atrocity or outrage in Ireland which had er, e T e ! l exceeded in England, not only in quality but in num er., tgad they heard of any capital (city) in Ireland as having, ty of e,seene of such scenes of pillage and incendiarisin as-the eard f i3 rstol? (Hear.) What castle in Ireland had . tlie f Isi °` as beine. consumed by the smoke of rebellion, like that otti t , L °se • fru'? What scenes of agrarian oppression equalled ora k i l s il . alupshire, which had been the subject of a S get ne 'on, and which had called down the severest pupdish .i''' Pie law • they Hear, hear.) Exaggerate the cases ot out it ' 4 Ireland as would, they were far distanced in atro- Y atm ere, - number by those which had not long since occurred e a ,,, a ud for which no man ventured to propose extraordinary ill ;' r " of coercion. But it was idle to disguise the fact; the 1 10 ' v as not aimed at the outrages of Ireland, but at one man, ;141 ministers found a thorn in their sides, and whom they R " it thus easier to tyrannically oppress than meet an open . ur a 'th, en t — a. man who had done so much for his country, and et.o exertion of whose unrivalled talents the very men who t ,}l4o‘v endeavouring. to crush him were eminently indebted Ii ten. present position—the learned member for Dublin. (A t,g u, and " Hear.") He firmly believed, that but for the ex '44B„ of that learned gentleman, the Catholic Relief Bill 4 not now be the law of the land, and, as a consequence, . kresent ministers could not have accepted office, th.ey hav % eta it to their honour spoke; refused to accept office till Ita 'atiO P are a n PP. 15 0 5 is that measure should be proposed with the sanction of the ex ecutive. They, therefore; ought to feel grateful to the man who had removed this great stumbling-block to their possession of power and station. (A laugh.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL confessed that the measure before the house was alarming and arbitrary in its nature, and that it could not be adopted without pain by any one who had imbibed a reverence for free institutions, and he regretted that it had been imposed on ministers by a stern necessity. He was con vinced that by subduing insurrection, while they maintained, as they ought, the authority of the laws and the dignity of the im perial crown of these islands, it would be confessed in the end, even by those who were reluctant to own it now, that they had been the best friends to the peace, the liberty, and the conse ' quent prosperity of Ireland. (Cheers.) Mr. H. GRATTAN agreed with the noble lord who hard just sat down that the Whitefeet ought to be put down, but differed from him in thinking-that the constitution ought to be put down with them. (Hear.) Thtey must stretch forth every arm to put down the Whitefeet, but they must also exert every nerve to keep up the constitution. (Opposition cheers.) Thev talked of -putting down prwdial agitation ; and to do this they were about to deprive the Irish people of their just rights, (hear, hear,) to remove, in fact, from those of whom they complained any desire, any wish, to cultivate a feeling of quietude and con tent. (Hear, hear.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL supported the bill. Sir ROBERT PEEL.—The right hon. gentleman and the noble lord, had mentioned, (and he must say, that they had not been contradicted in their statements,) details of outrages so atroci ous as to make the blood run cold. (Hear.) Were these facts correctly stated or not ? Had murders been committed—had threatening notices been sent—had burnings of houses taken place in the manner and to the extent recounted ? There could be no doubt in the mind of any reasonable man on the subject. Before he heard the statements of the noble lord and right hon. gentleman he drew his own conclusion as to the state of Ireland, from those generally notorious facts of which every man accustomed to refer to the ordinary channels of information must be aware. He there saw the subject of the condition of Ireland amply described; he saw statements of ' outrage made, and no attemps at contradiction, which must have followed had those statements been incerrect ; and from all he had seen, his impression was, that the ordinary operation of the law in Ireland was not sufficient for the'protection of the peaceable and innocent, and the suppression of public dis orders. But he did not rest his conclusion merely on the tes mony of newspapers or general notoriety, or the details men tioned by the right hon. gentleman. He had no access to offiCial documents, but he would read from undisputed authority some of those general statements as to the condition of Ireland which had carried more conviction to his . mind than even the transactions detailed by-His Majesty'Oministers. He would first take the allegations of a judge of the laud—he alluded to Baron Sir Wm. Smith, who was sent by the government to try prisoners at the Lent assizes of Maryborough, in 1832. This was the picture whiCh the learned judge drew of the state of the country at that period in his charge to the grand jury of the Queen's County. The address was published in the official records of the house, having . been added in an appendii to the report from the select committee on the state oflrelana, which was published in August. Baron Smith commences his charge thus:—" find here a calendar consisting of 150 cases: of these 12 a..re charges of murder, 6 of conspiracy to murder, 9 of manslaughter, 11 of rape, 5 of child-murder and its appurten ants, 11 of abduction, 41 of housebreaking, assaulting dWell ings, and robbery of arms, 9 of shooting at persons, 2 of adiniuistering. unlawful oaths, and 22 of violent assaults!' That was the detail of the atrocities committed in one county of Ireland, and to be tried at those assizes. Had these remarks been falsified—was that list of crime contested, or did it admit of contradiction ?• (Hear, hear.) Take the testimony of another gentleman, a Roman Catholic priest, with no undue influence upon his mind, to lead him to exaggerate the unfortunate con dition of the county. In a letter addressed to Lord de Vesci, by the Rev. Nicholas O'Connor, parish priest of Maryborough, and quoted in Mr. O'Connor's evidence before the committee, the following passage occurred :—" In vain have we waited in hopes of the retuining good sense of the deluded, and have found, on the contrary, the well-disposed compelled, by intimi dation, to join the ihegal societies, or murdered or terrifi e d out of the county." (Hear.) He should only refer to one other piece of testimony in reference to this subject, because he thought that the multipication of undisputed and indisputa ble statements, all tearing on the one point, was of no use. The last testimony, then, to which he should direct the attention of the house, as completing the picture, was that of Dr. Doyle, Roman Catholic Bishop .of the diocess of Kildare and Leightin. He did not now say what might be right or wrong to be done, but they were agreed es to the facts, and that a more alarming state of society, established on testimony the most unquestiona ble, had never existed? (Cheers.-) What, then, was the course -to be pursued ? Were the ordinary powers of the law sufficient to repress the distiirbances stud mileages that pevailed ? No man alleged that they were; but. every man expressed a desire to curb the disturbances. How was that to be effected ? BY a . measure such as the present ? It was for the house to decide the question. It was not necessary to go into the details Of the bill on this occasion. (H e a r .) D e p en d upon it the established orders and regulations of the house, which were .respected in theory, but, he was sorry to gay, too frequently violated in prac tice, rested on good grounds. By those regulations the discus sion of details was reserved for au advanced stage of a measure (the principle being first decided on), and the result was a bet ter elucidation of truth, and a more satisfactory accomplish ment of the ends of justice. (Hear.) He now proceeded to deal with what appeared to him to be the main objections urged against the measure. But, first, he must observe, that there was one truths which he was faF from contesting, namely, that this bill was in itself no remedy for the permanent evils of Ire land. At the same time that he felt the necessity of this mea sure, with a view to repress outrage and disturbance, he candid ly admitted that he viewed the general condition of the country for which as he had said before, the bill afforded no remedy, with the utmost degree of anxiety and apprehension. He la mented to see such party animosity and agitation as now dis turbed Ireland. Looking at the state of the country, he per ceived an increasing population and another evil re-acting ou and re-producing the first- 7 namely, a low scale of comfort, want of employment,—want of the usual conveniences and comforts of life. (Hear.) It was because the people were contented with little and inferior food, and because employment was scanty, that they were not discouraged from contracting early marri ages,•the source of an increased population. The two evils went on reacting on and re-producing each other, and the only check consisted in a deficiency of potatoe crop. For that state of things this measure contained no remedy. (Hear, from some Irish members.) Who said it did? (Cheers from the ministerial benches.) But the present state of disorder pre cluded the application of any remedy. (Renewed cheering.) He repeated, this measure was no remedy for the original evil, hut it put an end to a state of things the continuance of' which would be inevitable destruction. (Hear, hear.) As to the original evil, look at the state of the relations subsisting be tween landlord and tenant in Ireland. He was aware that he differed from the vast majority as to some of the remedial mea sures proposed to be applied. He heard, night after night, at tempts made to trace the evils to the existence of tithes and to the exactions of the clergy. (Hear.) No, no; those were not the sources of the evils that afflicted the country (cheering}; and though an extinction were effected of the legal rights of the clergy, the evils would continue, if the rights of which they should be deprived were transferred to the landlords (Hear, hear.) The first step towards remedying the evils and remov ing the disorders of Ireland consisted in Parliament getting at the truth. Do not let us offer up unoffending men, who were already despoiled of their rights, as sacrifices for the election's of others—such a sacrifice would not suffice. He applied to it the words of Lord Bolingbroke on the trial of Sacheverell, which were equally true of the attacks now made on the clergy, and of their probable result—" they made a fire to roast a per son, but they made it so hot that they burned themselves:" He asked whether gentlemen had read the evidence on the subject of tithes? Ile referred them to the testimony .of Mr. John Walsh, a Roman Catholic magistrate—he liked Roman Catho lic evidence in such a caso--for an exculpation of the clergy. Mr. Walsh- was conversant with the condition of the lower classes of his countrymen, and his testimony showed that the miserable state of that vast class of farmers who occupied farms of ten acres was attributable, not to the exactions of the clergy, but to the misconduct of the landlords. (Hear.) Let those gentlemen who talked of the exactions of the clergy, and thought that the evils that afflicted Ireland flowed from tithes, and consequently that the "healing ; " measure for their abolition would accomplish all that was necessary to be done in that country, let them look at the evidence of Mr. Walsh. lie states that the majority of persons under the class of farmers of the county of Kilkenny are people holding from 10 to 15 acres of land; that they are generally in the greatest state of destitution from about the month of April to the month of September. Farmers in that class have no means of meeting the demands made upon them but by their crop, and from the time the sale of the crop takes place till the next crop they are destitute of every means of obtaining money. Potatoes gene rally, without e ith er m ilk or mea t , constitute 'their diet, and they consider themselves very lucky if they have enough of them. In answer to the question whither the people consider them selves well off if they made two rents out of their crop, Mr. Walsh replied, that he considered a farmer, by converting land to the best purpose, might make double the rent; but he did THE LIVERPOOL STiiNDARD • not think that the small farmer in general made anything like . that, nor had it, he dared to say, come into their heads to cal culate. He meant to represent this as the general state of the farmers of 10 or 15 acres, who have a greater proportion cer tainly. The examination of Mr. Walsh proceeded as follows,: . [Here the right hon. baronet read extracts from the evidence of that gentleman.] He never would admit that it was fair or just to hold up the clergy as the chief cause of the evils of Ire land, particularly in a place from which by law they were ex eluded. This was not the place where it was either generous or just to exhibit the clergy, as victims of popular clamour and spoliation. But, passing from this topic, he admitted that some suggestions had been made on the subject of measures to be adopted for Ireland, which deserved the best attention of, the house.:. With reference. to poor laws—with every desire to at'- . ford relief—he confessed that he was one of those who were checked in their progress by A fear of extinguishing property and adopting a, complete agrarian law. (H ear , heat.) How • ever, he did not say, that such a modification of the poor laws as would confine relief to cases of extreme distressnnd destitu tion might not. be, resorted to With safety; but he felt that this was not the time to pronounce an opinion on the subject. He almost feared that the description of the. Roman historian was applicable to the race of poor-laws in Ireland, and that it might be justly said; "Ad hmc tempora, quibus nec vitia •nostra net remedia pati possumus i preventum est." But leaving that sub ject, this he must say, that howeVer they might talk of adopt ing healing measures, andnotwithstanding they might .hope to conciliate potverful parties by concessions, Parliament would gainnothiug by giving way to popular clamour, or yieldin g one single point beyond that which their sense of justice die, tated. ' (Hear.) If ministers established pyinciples leading to future confiscation, they might be cheered in that house by th voices of many around them, but not only would they .fail to procuie additional security for life, and, peace, and propertye but so farfrom.satisfyings their deluded countrymen, they would only , whet their appetites for furth er ra pi n e. (Ch eers .) H e shouid vote for this measure, but he accepted it as no compro mise on any subject: He voted for it on his own principle, and would consider whatever measures should be presented on their PrinciP4 If ever there was . a country in which it was esaeu- tial jealously to uphold the rights and properties of all classes With nview to the preservation of Order, the maintenance of peace, and the protection of life, :it was that country now un , happily so disturbed. 'Therefore, in answer to the argument that this measure' offered no permanent remedy, he at once ad mitted the fact, but contendedthat a suspeusion of the reigning. disorder was necessary, in order to leave the legislature at li berty, and afford it an opportunity to try an effectual remedy; He wished only to take the leadine-arguments against the bill, passing without notice all the rubbish with which gentlemen had filled up the interstices of their arguMents. (Laughter.) Such were appeals of this kind—" Was this measure the proof Which ministers gave of their_ gratitude to Ireland ? • Was this the gratitude of the Legislature for the assistance received from Ireland on the Ream Bill?" As to the latter appeal. it could „not be supposed to produce much effect upon him who . had opposed Reform. Still he admitted that he should be quite as base as those charged with ingratitude, if he consented . to apply a law which was,not necessary for.the tranquillization of Ireland.. But this was ,no question of gratitude or ingrati- . tulle: The' liberties of a country were not to be complimented away. The question was, did the state of Ireland require such ameasure ? If it did, what room was there to talk of grati tude ? It was simply a measure of necessity. Parliament was to determine whether bands of armed ruffians were to be per mitted to break- open houses by night, to plunder arms, to in jure property, to destroy life, as if some proclamation of mur der had lasen issued, and - liberty of rapine end destruction were established. It had been said that this was a suspension of the British constitution. He admitted that it was a measure cf severity, of intolerable e ;erity, unless there was a paramount necessity for it; he admitted that but he denied that this was a suspension of the British constitution. He said that the British constitution, in many parts of that country, as described by Dr. Joy, by Baron Smith, by the Rev. Mr. O'Connor, had bZ;en long ago. gone. He saw a ghastly form that called itself the British constitution. What was the British constitution? It was not 'a form of jurisprudence intended to give impunity to crime. The British constitution pre-supposed the existence of institutions and implements which could be employed for the protection of life and property. The British constitution . never supposed that the doctrine of passive resistance would be resorted to by any man as an aulhoiity for the purpose of depriving others of their rights. When acts like these went unpunished, when they were triumphant, do not let any 'man say that this was a suspension of. the British constitution. (Hear.) All that form was gone while such a state of things existed. ' It was a cruelty, it was a mockery to talk of its being a suspension of the British constitution. Could any man have the barbarity to go to the family of Mr. Houston, and tell them that lm Sell by the British constitution ? (Cheers.) Mr. Ma rlins waitinurdered in his .own house. Was it not a mockery to talk of the British constitution and -of Lord Chatham to the widow of Mr. Martini, after she had seen her house entered, and her husband murdered in the middle of the day ? Talk of the British constitution ! It was ills impunity of guilt (hear,) which was perpetrated under the shield of the I3inish constitu tion, which was degraded by being thus sent, as it were, on a forlorn hope. He was reconciled to the suppolt of this bill, because he 'consulted the honour of the British constitution in endeavouring to prevent the odium of these ati °cities being cast upon it. (Hear.) But it had been said, would England tolerate this law ?' He asked, would England tolerate the state of things which existed in Ireland? (Hear.) He would tell them- that England, rather than submit to such a state of things, would submit to new laws; and Ireland would have cause for gratitude for the kindness and protection is hich this bill afforded her. The measure had two objects in view, and one of the main objections to it was that it had -only two objects. The first object for which it provided, and which ex tended to the whole of-- Ireland, was to prevent every species of political agitation; the other Object was to prevent those insurrectionary..psoceedings called agrarian disturbances. The objection was that political agitation was unconnected with in surrccti9ns in Ireland, and that it was unnecessary and unjust that there should be precautions taken against political agita tion. He would make no personal applications, but this he said that he would •-not vote for a law. which should arrest the ignorant and dehided offenders, unless it laid its interdict upon the system which encouraged and incited Ahern. (Hear.) This was the most important part of the measure. It would be unjust to * limit the law to a number of wretched Whitefeet, whilst it made DP attempt to prevent the proximate cause of insurrection. He could see no justice in au tiet which punished the deluded conspirators, if it did not take, some precautions against the system of political agitation. There were great fallacies on this part of the subject. The argument was this—that there were two matters, political agitation and insurrectionary violence, but that hey were altogether unconnected;' that the system of political agitation —he spoke of system in the abstract—was not connected with the insurrections. He should tiy to draw the line between the truth and the mistake. There were occasions when the objects of the two were disunited; yet for a certain distance they travelled' the same road, and political agitation undoubtedly so far counteracted insurrectionary violence, when instil section ary violence defeated the object of political agitation. (Cheers.) He admitted that there had berm most laudable and praise worthy exhortations to tranquillity, sobriety, and order. Ile gave no credit to these artful declarations; It was the cun ning of the serpent (hear,) that issued declarations of that kind; and he would prove to the satisfaction of the house, that at other periods, when there was peace in Ireland, we were treading on the edge of an abyss, and that to confide in the profesSions of temperance and of obedience to the laws em ployed to cover mischievous intentions, was not the way to en sure. the salvation of government. He could not admit that political agitation was an ally of government; for the time would ,arrive when it would separate from government,- and turrs'against its deserted ally. He granted that there had been associations in Ireland which had maintained tranquility and made the stormy waves of discontent subside. But should that diminish his apprehension ? He could imagine no state of things more formidable, than that the tranquillity of a country should depend upon the existence of such au agent, for th e time. would arrive in Which that same political agitation, which could perform the miracle of calming the passions of a discon tented people, could perform the much smaller miracle of con verting calmness to .disorder. (Cheers.) All he contended was that the counselling of peace and repressing disorder were no real proofs of the absence of evil intention, and ought not to reconcile us to the .existence of political agitation. (Hear.) It had been said over and over again, that spies were. sent out by government for the purpose of holding intemperate language theniselves, in order that they might urge the people to violence. He (Sir R. Peel) had, some years ago,been connected with the government of Ireland, and he had not the slightest cognizance or connexion with the employing of spies ; and he sincerely thought that a government which relied on such resources was as justly an object of ridicule as of execration. (Hear.) This, however, had been the story for the last fiftyl years in Ireland, and on his conscience he believed no story was ever more false. (Hear.) - There was another circumstance referred to in the re port. In the early part of MS there had been a great seizure of persons. On one, of the name of Edward Grattan, a thousand papers, were found, which were copies of an address to the - United ,Irishmen so remarkably - decorous and proper; that it was like a sermon. • Itexhorted them to peace and sobriety, to refrain front all kinds - of violence, to be patient and submissive; it stated that 237 the taking away arms by force from houses would be productive of great evil, and that if any man was sent to prison for this of fence, he would not be maintained by the society. If this had been the only paper found upon Mr. Edward Grattan, he might have been regarded as an apostle of peace; but, unfortunately; there were other Tapers, amongst which were three oaths, ore` for a private, one for a sergeant, and one for an officer. The sergeant's oath was to the effect that he would implicitly obey his superior officer and no one else. Besides these oaths, there was" . a return of the 'number of united Irishmen iu thirteen towns of Ireland. The return gave 111,300 men, 6000 horses, 1000 pikes, besides bayonets, powder and balls. Side by side, with the ex hortation, was this list of 111,000 men, and 1000 pikes (hear;), and this showed:that exhortations to peace and sobriety may be very consistent with the exertion of a moral' influence over large bodies of men to purposes of mischief. Bat he asked any man, who knew the state of the country, whether he believed there could be a system of political agitation there, without a•predis position to insurrection. How could that system otherwise find support and pabulum Y The time would come when some great• question, like Catholic emancipation, would be to be settlhd in Parliament ; and be denied that the system could keep the corgi- . try perman e ntly i n su bj ect i on. Thi s was a ll h e thought it neces sary to say asto the principle of the measure. The question thdn was, whether he should vote for the introduction of the new law, or arrangelimself under the banners of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. on his tna constitution,nnYdsa:rudo' r ) t hw,e,i , i ßm o roi h tti a ls d oh e loa r fN e v e , oc t e rT d dr h ei aa i sit death standard dard on this occasion. (Reiterated laughter.) If the right hon. gentleman had depicted thing of an inspiriting kind, he might haye uif' b .t)h e But-when he exhibited so unromantic a motto'" that the been e: e h B m a t ci l pt b n e e d d e b t n o y a i n o t h i: bin be read a first time this day fortnight" (laughter)--a-when he merely said " tarry awhile" (laughter)—'` let us wait another fortnight",(laughter)—he must excuse him. Suppose the matter was postponed to that time, what where they to do? TO sce whether remedial measures would have any efiect ? (Laughter.) Had not the right honourable gentleman a detail of the crimes perpetrated from 18*A9 to 1832? Had no remedial measures passed in the mean time ? There was reform (hear); there was the extinction of tithes (Bear; ) yet these remedial measures had had no effect, for the year. 1832 was the worst of all. Diddle • es pect such a wonderful -Change in the course of a fortnight? (Laughter.) The right hon. gentleman invited them to stand still-for a short interval on the banks of a turbid current ("hear;" from Mr. 'Tennyson,) and in the hope th a t i n a f ew d a y s th e stream would heless treaked or discoloured with blood. (Cheers . . ) If it was less discoloured, it would riot prove that the law was not necessary; but if in the course of those few days murder aud ra - pine increased, we were depriving of protection those who were entitled to claim it. He (Sir R. Peel) would pass the stream whilst-there was time; he would vote for this bill, in order to secure for the poor of Ireland that protection which the law did not give. Let us be resolute. Let us not be suspected in Ire land of a want of energy and, firmness, and he would answer for the result. The passage was practicable now; a want of reson tion might close it for ever. He referred those who doubted of the policy of this course to the records of crime before them. These were his justification for suspending the ordinary law. How could the state of society be worse, and how could . h e think that the peopl e o f I re l an d cou ld b e better off by persever ing in the existing law? One hundred and ninety-four murg ders ! Why, great battles had been gained, great victories had been achieved by this country, at a less expense of human blood. (Hear, hear.) The battle of St. Vincent had been gained at less cost of life (hear); the sanguinary bombardment of Algiers had caused less loss of life (hear) ; we had rolled back the im ietuous tide of French exultati o n an d hope at th e b a t t l e o f usaco with less expense of human life. (Hear.) There was something animating in the idea of a battle ; but, good Gorr, what horrid recollections haunted the mind which had witnessed a murder. Would the house bear with him while he mentioned one fact for the purpose of showing how feeble an idea was con veyed of the distracted state of society in Ii eland, when it rested even upon the number of individual instances of murder? It would serve to show the fearful anxiety, the extremity of moral suffering, which for weeks and months previously to assassina tion haunted the victims of outrage. How many, alas! had been compelled, in consequence of receiving notices of their in tended assassination, to fly far from the scenes which associa tion had endeared to them, or submit to pay the forfeit of their obstinate attachment by their lives! The fact he was about. to mention would serve also to prove what extraordinary energies the human mind, even as it exists in the lowest grades of So' cicty, is capable of when the immediate prospect of death is presented to it. He recollected a man, a resident in the county of Clare,_ who came to Dublin for the purpos e c. f giving him (Sir R. Peel) information respecting the perpetrators of a cer tain outrage. Now, that man, though he was fully convinced that he was maiked out for the vengeance of the friends of the person he had been the means of bringing to justice, yet the stone . desire he felt of revisiting his native spot, and embracing, his wife and child, overcame every consideration of peiscuat security. 'lle (Sir R. P.) knew the man's - danger, and earnestly advised him nut to go. His advice, however, was not accepted, and some weeks after the man had taken up his abode with his family, an attack was made upon his house be nine or eleven men, who, after much deliberation, had come with the deadly determination of immolating their innocent victim, who, 'after so many weeks of impunity had begun to flatter himself with the idea that the clanger was averted, and that " he might at length rest in security. How vain were his anticipations! They attacked the house while he was asleep; they broke - open the door, called out the man—they murdered him with pitch forks! and this bloody work did they perpetrate in the hearing' of his wife and child, a child only nine years of age ! Now, let the house mark what he was about to relate.- While her hus band was yet in the struggles of death, the mother took the child, and, placing. it in a recess by the fire-place, she said:— such was her heroic fortitude—such her almost incredible self possession, even with the frightful cries of her expiring husband ringing in her ears—she said to the infant:—" You - hear the cries of your dying father. I shall certainly be the next victim. When they have murdered him, they will murder me too; but I will struggle with them as long as I am able in order to give you time to do what I place you here for. My last act shall be to put this lighted turf upon the hearth. Do you, by its glare, -mark the faces of the murderers. Mind you watch them nar rowly, that you may know and be able to tell who they are, and so avenge the cruel death of your parents." (It is impos sible to describe the sensation which this narration produced upon the house.) As the unhappy woman said, so it fell oat. The butchers, after completing their bloody work upon- the man, barbarously murdered the worhan also. After a short but unsuccessful struggle with the ruthless miscreants, she was dragged from the cottage, and inhumanly slain upon the bleeding body of her husband. But the child had carefully obeyed the last injunctions of its mother,—had closely scannea the faces of the murderers,—was able to identify them,- , --and by the evidence of that child, corroborated by other evidence, five of the wretches who committed this horrid deed were con victed and hanged within a month after the perpetration of the. crime. (A burst of applause.) That child was for some ears afterwards under his [Sir R. Peel's] protection. (Che ers .) hat, then, he would ask, were the consequences of the existence of such a state of society ? Why, that all law must be , paralyzed where- scenes such as he had d escr ib e d p ro s veiled, and every moral restraint must be at an end. •In Ireland the horror which in every other country attends the perpetration of murder seemed almost extinct. Th e y h a d heard, in the figurative language of eloquence, of the most inanimate parts of nature being moved at horrible crimes ; but even those feelings of superstition which often led to the detec tion of murder appeared to have little or no effect in Ireland. All moral checks—all restraints were removed. Could it, then, be denied that some measure like that introduced by his Majes ty's ministers was not necessary for personal security in Ire,- land ? ( Hear, hear.) It had been asked by what means was evidence to be procured ? He would answer by restoring per sonal security. It had been asked how would the courts-mar tial b 6 able to procure it? By changing, he would answer, the relative position of the two parties. When the energy displayed by the government began to strike terror into cowardly hearts —when the innocent man began to feel assurance and courage, then, indeed, the political atmosphere might be said to have undergonc.a change; the relative position of' the-parties, he re peated, would he altered, the one receiving an accession of con fidence, the other a feeling of depression. (Hear, hear.) Now, if under the present circumstances of the country, the govern ment refused to art with due energy, what would be the conse quence ?—what the alternative ? -One universal chaos of sh day, in which the very foundations of civil life would be sub verted, every rule of moral justice reversed, no punishment ex cept for the Innocent no security but for triumphant crime. ('I he right hon, baronet sat down amidst the loudest cheers, which lasted for several,minutes.) Mr. RUTHVEN moved an adjournment, which, after some dig cussion, was agreed to. BATH ELECTION. Mr. HODGES„ chairman of the committee appointed to try the validity of the Bath election, brought up the report of the com mittee. The decision of the committee was, that John Arthur Roebuck, I:sq., the sitting member, was truly qualified at the time when he took the qualification oath,. in December, 1832. The petition cgainst his return was declared to be "not frivol ous nor vexatious." The' other orders of the 4ap were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at a quarter to two o'clock.,