The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-05 00:00:00

Imperial Parliament. no s r L tft Oittis VVEPTZESDAY, - FA. 27. The Marquess of WESTMINSiEIt, in presenting a petition, praying for a better observance of the Lord's day, observed that as far as strengthening the existing laws on the subject went, be would have no objection to do so; but he ihnnid'cer tain!y object to the mixing up of nny thing like a puritanical spirit with the laws of the coantry tefel;nre le this impor tent matter. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. Lord TEYNtuat rose and said that he thought it due to their lordships as well as himself, to take that opportunit/to qopf ptaiu of a most atrocious attack which ifis made in - the .tan (lard newspaper of that evening against him (Lord Teynham) and the noble lord behind him (Lord King.) In the article to w.hkh he alluded the noble lord and himsett..were called "We devil's advocates," (a laugh) "the Church-hating gemini," and werein fact represented to be "scoundrels," because they had presented petittotis'eolnptaining of abuses connected with the ti a system, and praying for relief. NoW he would solemnly declare that in presenting such petitions ,as had been intrusted to him upon that subject, and which he considered it his duty to present, he had 'never. been wanting in that respect towards the Church of England which it was his duty as well as his in clination to feel, and which indeed it Mitild he a most repre lusible thing on his part not to entertain. lie really thought that the honour and dignity cif . the house inquired that a stop should be put to such slanderous and calumnious attacks upon members of it, and with that view he begged to give notice that ire would to:indrrow Move that the editor and Fitter of 'fha paper be called to their lordships' bar to insiver'fbr their e6fit dud. - the Lorin CHANCELLOR begged to remind the noble lord, in the first place, that the question to be now put was, that the petition that was presented by the noble marquess do lie upon the table, and in the next place, that even were that disposed or, he. did not conceive that the mode of proceeding adopted by the noble lord was the usual one in midi cases. Ile appre hehded that it was not usual to give notice of proceeding touch ing-the'privileges of that house. The noble lord must be aware that a.motiort of that 'kind took precedence of - all - other buSiness, whitever, - and theridore, if the house was to take up a Matter of this description, their lordships should, not only int justice - to the paper, tselt; but to the house, proceed, to its consideration in 4iatiter. . Their doing so would not depriVe the parties in ques tion of the means of gettitg full notice to prepare their deteno when called on, and therefore he would - repeat, Aliat:it:the hOtige should decide—a decision that he for one should deeply tacit lit —to call the printer of this paper to the bar for such a trumpery article, their lordships should decide to do so at once. He was sure thathis 'noble friend, (Lord King) who, it appeareithad 'icon SO attacked in this article, would not join with the noble b'aixin in demanding to have the printer called to their lord .ships' bar, and indeed he loped that the noble baron (Teyn bath) would himself see that the more dignified course wohld be riOt to notice such a ,matter. If, however, the noble baron sliiihrdsPersist in his motion, the question - as to calling those persons to the bar should be deemed at once, for aliundaht notice would be thus given to thein, and abundauttitne afforded to them to prepare for their defenc?.. 'Lord TEYNHAM said that if other noble lords did not care shout such attacks, he should not mind them either. After . what_ had occurred, he would not persevere with his intended motion on this subject. TRIAL OF OFFENCES (IRELAND) BILL. !rho Earl of SHAFTESBURY brought up the report upon this bib, which was agreed to, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time to-Morrow (this day.) The Earl of RODEN presented alsetition from the inhabitants oiro:Place in'the Island of Skye, in Scotland, praying that their lordships would allow the people of Scotland the liberty of choosing their own ministers. The Duke of liscsosoNss presented petitions, praying . for a snore strict observance of the Sabbath, from two parishes in the town of Derby, and front the inhabitants of Midhurst, in Sussex. The noble Duke, in the absence of Lord Kiunaird, presented petitions from the town of Perth, and from two other places in Perthshire, praying for the 'abolition of slavery. The Marquess of LANSDOWNEpresented 17 petitions to the saute effect from different places in Lincolnshire; and similar petitions wcie presented by Lord SUFFIELD, from parishes in Somersetshire and Devonshire; and by Lord KING, from a place in Ayrshire. Lord D DossTaNviLLE presented petitions from Bodmin and another place, praying for a due observance of the Lord's day. THE CLERGY. The Bishop of BATH and WELLS said that he wished to take that opportunity to address a few observations to their lord ships, in consequence of as attack which had been last evening made by the noble baron (King) upon a most excellent and deserving clergyman of his diocess. - The noble lord had stated that the clergyman in question had been, guilty of exacting tithes beyond what were his due, and of demanding- tithe upon fish. Now, tb shotv that such had not been the case, he (the Bithop of Bath mid Wells) would just read to their lordships a letter which he had received from that rev. gentleman. 'fhe rev. prelate here read the letter, in which the rev. writer stated that he had been absent from his parish for a few weeks, being at Birmingham assisting in the restoration of St. Peter's church there—that on his return he was astonished to find that Lord King's agent had been gOing about the parish getting signa tures to a petition reflecting upon his (the clergyman's) cha racter and conduct—that he understood that that petition stated that he had raised his tithes—that he had endeavoured to exact tithe upon fish, - and, in short, that he had acted in a most cruel! way towards his parishioners. The writer proceeded to state, that in no instance since he had come to the parish had he raised the tithes there—that in many instances he had lowered them---and that on the last tithe-day there had not been a sin , • gte.complaint on the part of tne tithe•payer. He further stated, that as to the fish, he had never threatened that he would tithe them: that, so - far from falling out with his parishioners, he had done all he could to promote peace and harmony amongst them, and that he had established three schools in the parish, towards which no assistance was afforded him by Lord King, though he had written to his lordship on the subject, but that he hail never condescended to answer his application, and he con cluded by stating that he had no doubt that this petition, which he understood was about being forwarded to their lordships, bad originated with Lord King himself. The right rev. prelate said that it would have been only an act of courtesy on the part of the noble lord, when he had a petition to _present against a clergyman resident in his (the Bishop of 'Bath and Wells') diocess, to have given him notice of it. Cl erg y men , w h en th us attacked, could only answer through the medium of their dio cesan, and therefore lie should have had notice of this petition. The rector of Porlock, against whose character this petition was directed, was a most excellent individual. He thought that the noble lord would now be ashamed at having brought forward such charges against that rev. gentleman, especially as, instead Of being proved, they had been disproved upon the best possible authority. He hoped that the noble lord would not go on in this, he must say, sort of aberration of mind and mental hallucination, (a laugh) endeavouring to bring forward every thing that lie could against the clergy. He would entreat the noble lord not to persevere in unfounded attacks, knowing, as that-noble lord must., that by inflicting an injury on the chit., meter of the clergy, he would do an injury to religion itself. Lord KING assured the rev. prelate that he had no intention of saying that which he had just called upon him to state. The rev. prelate had contradicted his statement upon the authority of the party against whom the charges had been made. His (Lord King's) agent, was a lesee of laud in the parish, and was therefore as much interested as any other person in this matter, and it was in that character he had interfered in it. He (Lord King) understood that every one of Um 'farmers in the . arish except two had signed the petition. Th e p ro p er t y w h ic h h e held in the parish, was exceedingly small; his principal pro perty was in the- adjoiningcounty. 'Not one out of five of those 'who. had signed the petition were his tenants; they were per sons Over Whom he. had no influence. His agent as an owner of land in the parish, and in no other capacity, had been con cerned in getting up the petition. It was perfectly tine that the rev. gentleman - had made an application to him (Lord King) 'for so/spirt for the schools in the parish- Ire (Lord King) wrote to his steward; stating that he *as ready to con tribute towards their stipport. It was true 'that he afterwards declined to do so, and, his reason for so declining was, that he was infornied that' the rev. gentleman had involved himself in such a war with his ,parishioners, by demanding tithe upon potatoes, fish,'&c., that very little good could be 'expected to come from him. They Were fold that the rev. gentleman had not rais e d the tithe since his residence. iu the parish, but that, on the contrary, he had lowered it. if he had lowered it, it was because corn had become lower. He denied'that he had made any attack upon the character of this rev. gentleman. His:attack.was levelled asainSt the system, and not against the 'individual. The Bishop of BATu and 11 7 g.ku would only add, that ha thought such charges as, eFiellia t t were-generally brought for ward by the noble lord Should - he treated with silent contempt. The Earl'of do4oish presented a petition froth a place in Surrey,•praying for a snore strict observance of the'Lord's day. iljOuttf'd d. THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. T LIASDAY. The Bishop of . enrettssrbePresentell a petition from the in habitantli of Chich'es'ter, (fraYiti ter a better obserViimie of the tbath. he Duke of Richbotkp ttli6 4 oti - tnony to th'e respect:a birity o'rltie signatures attaileab petitiOir. The Right Rev. Prelate presented a iletition to the same ef fect from a parish in Sussex. Similar. petitions .were presented by the Bishop of. Bristol 'from Cranbourne and other places; and by the Earl of Rotten from the inhabitants a a parish ib. the ciiniity of LohdonderrY from the members of the United Secession Church, in Abbey , street, Dublin; from the inhabitants of Edmonton, in Middle sex ; front t i ke heritOrs and other inhabitants 'of a parish in Ar gyleshire ; and from the parish of Swinsby, in the county of Derby. . Lord KING -prebebted to. petition from the vestrymen and Other inhabitants of the parish of Shadwell, PraYing for the repeal of the house and window tax. Lord -Presented a Sirailar petition Won:I - the ittlralirl:- • tants of Marylebone, which had been adopted at a puhliebieet ing, and which was signed by ilbefllhoifsehdlders rttidelft ill Mit parish. He trusted Majesty's Ministers *mild direct their attention to this subject, and would reduce this tax, against which a very strong feeling existed in Marylebone, as being un equal and unOtst, it they polsibty could. The Earl of Roma lc pre s ented a petition from a plate "in the county of Caithness, praying their ford Ships to admit the people of Scotland to The right of choosing their own pastors. '1 he no ble earl.presented a petition from tie parish of Swinsby, in Der byshire, praying the house to order a 'national thanksgiving.- 1 he noble eartalsopreSented a petition frOm the Rev. Sir Har court Lem 4, of lifackrock, in the county of Dublin, Which de precated the idea of a repeal of the union, praised the Irish dis turbance's bill, ussured their lordships that there would be no peace in Ireland until - Roman 'Catholics were excluded from the legislature, and finally called upon the house to take steps to preserve the monarchy and the church from destruction, by re pealing the Catholic relief bill of 18-29. Lori Wirtlkilth, in bringing forward and proposing to have read a first time a bill to diminish expense and To VI -event delay in trials in the courts of law, said that, as this bill had been on a former occasion passed by their lordships, it would be uttne , ' cessary for him to trouble them with any - observations 'regarding . it at present. The bill wad then read a first time. . . "On the inotionof Earl GREY, the trial of - offences Vreland) !bill was read a third time, and passed. On the motion of the Earl ot :a return was ordered •of :the number,of applieatiOns matte to the Board of . Education, in !Dyblin, for the establishment of new schools under their Sys- Tem,. tir assiktauce for , schools already so . established ; 'and. also a return•of the numberbf: applications that had been cora- Vied with„ . §tating the names of the sehbors, the religion of the parties to which they belonged, Ste.-Attjourned. COMMITTEE oF ,PRIVILEGES. Loidarips.sat.in'a.comitittee . of . privileges at 3 o'clock, the Earl clf Shalteshury in the chair, assisted by the Marquis of ClanricUrde, and Lurds BilenbrirOugh, - Reellesdate, liosslyh, Poi thuore, Bic. THE - ROKEBY PREFAGE. Mr. Serjeant said 'he atteniled.before their lord ships'to . suppbrt the Petition - bf Eißvdiel 'Barba i linkeby, - who' clanned.to vine for the tifripotal 'rePt6entative peers for .Ire land. He should commence by . rea4ii . 1 , 7 a resolution of their lordship's house of the 17th of June, IMO, by which it - Would be, shown - that the father of 'the present :petitioner 'was - adjudged to have made out his . chtitn. He - shditid 'then prove the mar riage-of the deceased Baten, the birth Uf - the petitiOner, and the identity of the parties. Their lordships cane to a'resolutibn utljutiging that the peti tioner had established his claim. FRIDAY. Lord DACaR presented a. petitiOn 'froth the inhabitants of Newport, in Mounaouthshire, prayitig for the abolition of slavery, and similar 'petitions from the female inhabitants of Newport, and from the United Association Secession Chuieh of Stone. The Earl of CADOGAN preiented a petition from the inha bitants of the parigi of St. Luke, Chelsea, signed by 5W trades men, shopkeepers, and other inhabitants, praying for a better observance of the Sabbath. Lord K.ING preSented a petition from a place in the county of Meath, agamSt the coercive measure intended for Trelana, and stating tnat if tithes were abolished, peace and good order would at once be restored in that country. The noble lord presented a petitition from the same place, praying that all religious persuasions should be obliged to support their own clergy. 'lnc Marquess of CHOI:MONDELEY ptetehted a petition from a dissenting congregation in Trevor 7 squire, Knightsbridge, praying for a better obierVance of the Saubath. Lord KENYON . presented a petition from a place in the, county of York, in favour of a measure 'for regulating the hours of labour of children in factories. The Bishop of LICHFIELD and CoyExTuT presented peti tions, praying for a better observance of the Sabbath, trOm Henley upon-Thames, from Clare and Oavendish, in Suffolk, from Stratford, and from Ashbourne and several other places in the county of Derby. The Earl of IttiLIEN presented a petition froin a PlaCe in Yorkshire, in favour of a Measure for regulating the nours of labour of children in factories. Lord SuFFiaLnpreselitcd h petition from Wells, in Norfolk, 'praying for a better observance of the Sabbath. Lord 'BExi.Ev presented similar petitions from DcrOnport and Plymouth, and irons the Uitivers►ty'and city of Oxford. Adjourned to Monday. HOUSE OF -COMMONS. WEDNESDAY.--FivE O'CLOCK. StCOi4D SITTNG-PUBLIC BUSINESS. We have rarely witnessed more:public interest excited by the hitioduction of any measure into parliament than seemed to prevail on the expected motion of Lord Althorp, for the' first reading in this House of the Bill for the suppression of disturbances and illegal associations in Ireland. Long before the'hour appointed ,(five o'clock) for the House to resume its sittings, and to commence public business, every avenue and approach to the gallery was crowded to such a degree,; that it was with the utmost difficulty the constables could preserve a clear passage fur the members and others, whose admission to the house was necessary. The inconvenience and pressure of this assemblage 'of persons was felt the more, as the gallery Was not openetl at the •gsital hour, owing to Mr. O'Connell having given notice ihat he would move a call of the House, in'which, contrary to some expectation that he would forego his motion, he steadily persevered. As we were not in tne House ' we can only describe from hearsay what took place before the 'gallery was opened for the admission of strangei.s. At five o'clock, as soon as the, house was formed, we under stood that Mr. O'Connell biought forward his motion, that the hoUse' be called over, which was opposed by Mr. C. Wynn, Who expressed a disposition to divide the house on the question; but after all arrangements were made for the division, we un derstood that none actually took place, Mr. Wynn having given way in his opposition to tue general feeling amongst the 'great bony of the members that the call'should take. place. Ilse call was then proceeded with, and occupied until half past six o'clock, at which hour the gallery was opened, and the rush of strangers was so great, that in an instant every inch of its space was occupied. On our admission we found Mr. WM. ROCHE, (as we under- . stood,) 'addressing the house on a motion or resolution which he had proposed, that there should be laid before 'the house copies of ail official correspondence between the government and the office of chief Secretary in Ireland, relating to the disturbances in that country, since the Ist January, 1831.), to the Ist, January, 1833. Mr. STANLEY laid that he could Mot conceive the motive of the hon. member in moving for the production of documents such as those he applied for, or that tie was serious in moving for them. Did the hon. member kuow the nature of the papers for which he asked—a series of documents connected with the official communications of the government and the Chief Secretary's office in Ireland for three years ? The hon. gentleman did not ask for abstracts even of these documents, but for the details of all the outrages that have been in Ireland 'for three years. Why, it would be impossible to furnish such documents, and if they were 'produced it would occupy six months in the reading . of them, and it would take three years to understand and (nest them. Go'erninent was going to bring forward a measure—an arbitrary and unconstitutional measure, he admitted—.(cheers) a measure that could only be justified by the urgent necessity that 'called for it; but on that necessity, and on the people cdEngland, ay, and the sound part of the people of lreiand, the government were prepared to rest for their justification. His bon. friend (Lord Althorp) would that night state the case of the government to the house. That case the government was bound to bear out to the satis faction of parliament, - or it had no claim to the arbitrary powers for which it called. (Cheers.) . But the documents for Which the hon. member moved, if it were even possible 'to supply them, would not afford the house the information that his hon. friend would that night lay before it. Let the house only look at the vast mass of papers then on the table of the house, through which his hon. mend would have to proceed in making out his case. He (Mr. Stanley) was most anxious for the moment to arrive when that vase would be opened to the house. Un did not wish it be postponed au instant. And if tbe government should not be able to justify themselves and the Measures they proposed to the house; their characters were lost, both as men and as ministers. (Tremendous eheiring, Aria lasted a eonsideittibM ffme from both - sidei cif th* house, hilt chiefly from the op - position side.) - Mr. Thos. ATTwoou addressed the house in support of the motion, which on the suggestion of Mr. O'Connell was with drawn. . -.--. DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL. On the motion of Lord ALTHOM., the 'order of the - dal: for ttre first reading of the bill for the suppression of disturbances in Ire land was read. Lord ALTHORP said, that he was fnUyiensible-of the difficulty of his situation when he was about to call upon the assembly he was addressing , to intrust ministers with the powers Which the bill, the first reading of which it Wotild be his duty to conclude with moving, would ann them with. The whole tenour of his political life rendered it still more repugnant to his feelings to conic forward in that house with such a propogition. Nothing ecrulcl induce him to do so c -nothing could induce him to consent to inch a proposition being brbnght forward on the part of a -government of which he was a member, except the conviction which was impressed upon his mind, and he might say upon the minds of almost all, of its - alisolute necessity. It would, in order to establish a case, be necessary for him to prove, first, that the state of parts of Ireland was such as requir6l a remedy, and not only that, but such as rendered almost any remedy that could be propoged better than the continuance of that state; secondly, he was 'bound to - prove that the ordinary law was insufficient to provide a remedy • and, thirdly, he was bound to prove that the provisions of the bill now upon the table of the house did furnish a remedy. If he should be able to establish those three points, he would, bethought, have trade out a case to justify the govern ment in calling for the present measure. He would now proceed to 'State The cad& Whitt Tie flibUght would establish the three points which he had adVerted to. With respect to the first point, the state in which Ireland stood at present, the insecurity of life and property which prevailed there, and which required the house to interpose a remedy,—he did not know how he could better enter upon this part of the subject than by stating a number of cases of crime which had occurred in that country. The first case to which he would refer was that of the murder of a man untied Farrell, at Cagtle Coiner, in February last. A large body of Men entered his house, and, in the words of the person who gave the information, he was shot like a dog through the head. The next case was the murder of a man named Potts, an engi rieetat a colliery near Kilkenny, in March. About eleven o'clock in the forenoon, in the presence of nearly 20 persOns, and within a quarter of a mile of the barracks in which the 50th regiment were quartered, Tour men 'went up to and shot him, and then walked deliberately away; and though this crime was committed under the circumstances which he had stated, no attempt was made to prevent its perpetration or to arrest the murderers. The next case *as the murder of a person named Mana. Between tenehtrd 'eleven o'clock in the forenoon he proceeded from his residence to a carpenter's shop„ about a mile distant, in which werewmfan - a. boy; three men followed him into the shop, and fired 'it and Wounded him severely; they then knocked him down and killed him with the but.end of their guns. The next case Was the Murder of a man named Shee, at Cashel, on the 26thef-August. This person was in a room of a public-house, 'with two other men, when two men entered the room with their faces blaCkened, and one of them dressed in women's clothes : theyordered Shee to go on his knees, and instantly shot him. dead. The 'noble lord went into a long, melancholy, and dis usting detail of the outrages which had been committed in Ire - land. The fact which he would next submit to'the house would furnish an answer to the statement of the hon. member for Bir mingham,—namely, that the number of outrages committed during the last year in Ireland was not greater than it was in the preceding - year. He should be able to prove, by a compara tive statement, that the number of outrages had very much in creased during the last year. He would, in the first place, state the number of - insurrectionary offences which were committed in the province of Leinster during the whole of last year. The number of murders was 163; of robberies 487: of burglaries and attacks upon houses 1827 ; of burnings 191; of cattle houghings 70; of serious assaults upon the person 744; of illegal notices 913; and of injury to property 407. Havingniade a comparison of the state of crime under the different heads which he had just Mentioned in the threlplast months of the years 1829, 1830, 18.31, 1832, and the result Was as follows : MURDERS. 'lO I 1831 15 1832 ROBBERIES. • } ~~ 4 . 01, 1 *( , 69 1 1831 154 1 , 1832 'HURGLARIEE AND ATTACKS ON HOUSES. 39 1831 .... 94 I 1832 .... 1829 • .... 1830 .... BURNINGS. 31 1831 31 I 1832 CATTLE ROUGHING% ... 29 • ••• 77 13 1831 .••• 17 20 I 1832 •••• 31 SERIOUS ASSAULTS. '45 I 1831 •••• 89 -, p4 1832 'ILi.EOAL NOTICES. ' 49 1831 •••• 117 I •••• 79 . 1832 .... 197 INJURIES TO PROPERTY. 1829 '44 1831 .... - 67 1830 '•••• 59 I 1832 .... 134 Thus it 'appeared that within the last three months of the last year there had been an enormous increase of offences of an in surrectionary character, as compared with the corresponding periods in the preceding . years. He would now give them an account of the manner in which other outrages had gone on increasing . in different parts of the country. Here the - noble lord proceeded to read a long series of letters. The first from the county of Kilkenny dated the 21st of January, 1833, to this effect We have to report that outrages last week were on the increase, chiefly near Carlow. So well are the proceedings of the Whitefeet' arranged, that at the very moment at which the po lice are ordered out, beacons are lighted as signals upon all the hills. It is dangerous to leave a small post of police, lest it should be overpowered ; and, therefore, the duty of the mem bers of it is now peculiarly heavy; they are obliged to-sleep by day and to be out on 'duty all night." After reading a great va riety of letters, the'noble 'lord said that the house had already been informed by his right hen. friend (Mr. Stanley), that the number of rewards offered for the discovery of atrocious crimes was 108, and that of this number ho more than two had been paid. This might be owing to the disinclination of the parties who knew the criminals to give information against them, for he did not suppose—quite the contrary—that the people of Ire land had lost that horror which all men naturally feel at the perpetration of enormous outrages. It Was a strong proof, however, of the terrible situation in which the loyal and peace able portion of Irish Society were placed, when the parties who had been attacked by the turbulent and disaffected had a knowledge of their assailants, and yet durst not come-forward to invoke the vengeance of the law against them. lie thought that he had' now' said enough to prove that thestate of Ireland was one which 'reqdired an immediate remedy to be applied to it. He felt that blame might he imputect by some gentlelmen to His Majesty's advisers because they had not attempted to stop these outrages before, by the application of the extraor dinary meal:A-Which they Miw called for. His defence, however, *as that His Majesty's ministers did not wish to exceed the or dinary powers of the law, if they could by any possibility avoid it. As a proof of their disposition on that point, he would merely mention that On their first acceptance of office they sent a special comtnission into the county of Clare to put an end to the disturbances which prevailed in it, and the object for which that special commission was issued was, he was happy to state, coMpleteirsuccessful. (Opposition cheers.) The second point which it was necessary that he should . proVe before he could ex pect the house to give him the -xtraordinary power which he now demanded Wits, that the ordinary law was, in its execution, insufficient for the protection of person and property. He had already stated one ground which he thought atlorded undenia ble proof that the ordinary law was not sufficient for the pur poses for which it was intended. He would now proceed to state other grounds,—as forinstance;the intimidation of jurors and the intimidation of witnesses,—which made it impossible for the ordinary law to have any effect in the repression of outrages. If he could prove that the system of acting upon the fears of jurors existed in 'lreland, and that intimidation had been exercised to a Certain extent upon the jurors of every county in which these disturbanees had taken place, gentlemen would have to diftieulty in conceiving how difficult it now was to obtain jurors in criminal cases in that country. He would briefly mention to the house what had happened to the jurors who tried the Carrickshaugh case. He did not mean to say whether that case was or was not a case of murder,—he should merely allude to it in order to show that the persons who served on that jury, and who were supposed to have given a ver diet of guilty, had some of them received threatening notices that their houses should be burnt over their heads, whilst others had been obliged to resort to Dublin and other large towns for the protection of their own lives, and for the safety of their fa milies. His right hon. friend the Secretary for Ireland had told them of the number of jurors who were summoned to try one of 'the prosecutions instituted by the Crovrn, and of the very 'small portion of them who answered to their names. The dis- 1829 1880 1829 .... 1830 - - tance at which these jurymen lived prom the a ssize, been stated as an excuse for their nen-attendance._:: tiethen might give such dredenCe as they thought excuse; but what 'would they . say . to the statement a Majesty's ministers had received fidin good au thorirr ii ly, that it was not expeCted that any jurors would ° I summons to attend the next assizes at Kilkeui l f , much for the intimidation of jurors. He would 1 10 7 to say a few words upon the intimidation of witne.r; had already infornaled the houiie that many witi' e t i to quit the Queen's county on a ccoau having given evidence before the special commissi°, noble lord here read a long list of cases in which be, witnesses had been intimidated, but in so indistiv of voice that his words were only half heard in the' The next point which he was called on to establish / this bill was the meastire which ought to be a d o pted t ( the place and to remedy the defects of the ordinarY?, *as afraid that ft would be necessary for him to description of the main provisions of the bill, in o rder how they applied to the grievances of which he coMPIt 6I , how they were calculated to protect the loyal and the posed. He admitted that the most severe and °hie i ! part of the bill was that part of itwhich did away with ny jury; and yet this was absolutely necessary to Pre, terror of jurymen from saving criminals from cops' cases where the evidence indisputably warranted a cot A great many suggestions to get rid of this clause made by persons who, though they admitted the tied some new coercive measure, objected to the trial of an: arrested under this bill witliouCthe intervention of a l admitted that a military tribunal, as compared with a bunal like that of a jury in criminal cases, was not a to be defended in ordinary times; but he had heard m suggestions proposed instead of this military tribune", every one of those suggestions a military tribunal 04 opinion, preferable. It had been suggested that a jua t ro size might be sent round the country to try these dist the public peace without the assistance of a jury. No'el it:appeared that the habituating the people to this nes!; trial by a judge without the intervention of a jury would z unconstitutional, and, as a precedent on the statute-boo s detrimental than the mode of trial suggested in the pre s 6. Another proposition was, that instead of a judge of a g"' risters of a certain standing, appointed by the Crow% try the prisoners without the intervention of a jury. He ll that this proposition was even still more objectiontl that of appointing a judge to act without the assis jury. He thought that the proposal to give the elo i power of appointing ds judges barristers, who might decisions the stepping-stone to future promotion, was I °, worse than the proposal to give it the power of a ppoint judges, who were beyond the hope of promotion, to tb ment-chair of, these new tribunals. He admitted that bill there must be an unconstitutional exercise o f VI the government attempted, in a measure of this kind, such a middle course as would accustom men to look at out dislike and without disgust, they would inflict a go chief upon the country, for they would leave it in the P others to brin g in such a measure more easily when the sity for it was less urgent than at present, and when measures might be adopted without injury. The of this bill, which referred to Whitefeet outrages, was u of it which was intended to prevent signals from beillf and to punish those who made signals to warn the neil hood that the police were moving. The provisions of I on this point were adopted from those of the law for the I tion of smuggling. These provisions were undoubtedly as they compelled the accused party to prove a negative, 1 that he did not make the signals for a malicious or sedite pose. They had, however, been adopted in the custo l therefore could not be blamed as an unconstitutional inn° Another part, and indeed the only part of the bill which extend to the whole of Ireland,—for the provisions Yib had just been describing were only to extend to those Y Ireland where outrages were actually going on, and 111/ district was proclaimed,—was nothing but a renewal of I ditious Meetings Act. This part of it would extend to tla of Ireland. It had been argued on the other side that th no connection between the political agitation and the I disturbances of Ireland. Some hon. gentlemen had eve so far as to say, that the existence of political agitation land was the means of preventing these outrages I'lloo, committed. If gentlemen making the most violent and 0 matory speeches, agitating the country by fanciful stat° of grievances which did not exist, and by exaggerated, ments of grievances which did exist, thought that they co lay the excitement which they thus created, by ending speeches with cobweb pretences about their love of social,' and their desire to have the King's peace preserved inr —if gentlemen thought that they could thus easily soo feelings which they had thus industriously irritated, the little of human nature, and must be blind to the march man passions, and ignorant of the accumulating force' stricted resentment. The hon. and learned member for $ had repeatedly asserted that political agitation would put these disturbances, and" had more than once insinuated' was in his power to put them down. He should be sorry lieve that of any man, and he would do the hon. and 0 member for Dublin the justice to say that he (Lord Altholl •not believe it of him. He believed that if the hon. member fa lin had possessed that power, he would long since have ese it, for the benefit of the country which he professed to love s ( He then proceeded to contend, that the existence of s, body as the Volunteers of Ireland was most objectionahl unconstitutional. As they were to be made use of as aO l engine, might they not be used as a means of infiuenc o vote of hon. members in that house ? When gentlemen • lected that appeals had already been made to these assoel of volunteers, denouncing individual members of Parliani deserters from the cause of their country (hear, hear,) must surely see that never was there any institution more imperatively required the careful superintendence ° house. The house would undoubtedly hear many declara l upon the value of liberty which no man in that house / venture to contradict; but was it a state of liberty which land was then enjoying? Was it not rather a state of tell ( and despotism, and even anarchy, utterly imcompatible true liberty? Liberty was not a mere name, its benefits', palpable and tangible, and were seen in the protection wa gave to life, and in the security which it conferred upon petty. After some further observations, the noble lord eluded by moving that the bill be read a third time. Mr. TENNYSON had listened to the noble lord's state without being at all convinced of the justice and policy 11, , 1 measure founded upon it. Had ministers given the ora provisions of the law a fair trial before they proposed the e vagant and fearful experiment of the present bill? Thor not—though evidently bound to do so before they caned: Parliament to • deprive a whole nation of the benefits o', and constitutional liberty. (Hear.) Why not, he rep° give the ordinary tribunals a fair trial, before adopting extfaordinary measures as the abolition of trial by J ul martial law ? What were the tender mercies which a e l . martial held out which would prevail over the fears of IP evidence before a civil jurisdiction ? Was it the tender of committing a witness who refused_to give-such answers $ court-martial might feel disposed to receive—that is to se, he'refused to give evidence, saying that "he had no evide° give,"—to prison for three months ? He would p ro poS amendment on the noble lord's motion. He could asset' noble lord that in doing so he had no feeling of hostilit: wards him, or the government collectively, to indulge; object was solely to induce the noble lord to pause ere fie milted himself, the government, and, as it might be, t4set l irrecoverably, in reference to a measure which no h o nest could consider without alarm and regret. The r i g ht gentleman concluded with moving, as an amendment, tha bill be read a first time on that day fortnight. Mr. Bo mull. was wholly opposed to the noble lord's ine°, He conceived that it would aggravate the ills it was intend' remedy; besides that, it would fail in attaining the 'outrage-suppressing-end contemplated by its framers. hon. gentleman concluded a speech of considerable fore' saying, that the surest way to prevent immoderate desires' formed, and unjust demands enforced, was to g r antii season the moderate requests of justice. Sir Jousi BYNG supported the motion of the noble lord , said that the first duty of the government was to give the•ll able and well-disposed protection. If that were not ati o how could allegiance be exacted. Mr. GROTE said, that in supporting' the amendment 01 right hon. member for Lambelle he did so not from any Way to the government, but to the measure itself, which noble lord himself had declared to be arbitrary and despot' Captain BERKELEY supported the motion, and depre° the arts made use of to agitate Ireland. Mr. FINN, as one of the agitators, wished to make a observations. The whole cause of all the proceedings wash traced to the government itself; and their after-vengeance to be accounted for by the fact, that the people had, in sel' them, elected honestmen, and not those whom they justly l° l upon, as the bitter enemies of the country. The 1 1 1 wished to have nothing to do with those who now eel Orangemen, and then paid their court to Catholics—who 111 time praised the loyalty of the yeomanry, and then excla against their violence ;to answer their own purposes—to se. their own, tenure of office. All the efforts that might 01 , erted to deprive the people 'of Ireland of their just rightsj fail, Government might have recourse to gagging it to putting of Juries—ski c h ang i ng down the p ress —t o ex ti ngu i s hi ng e j :•- • it was the `nincon of all whO thoughtthe venue ; but alt eff ectual. N on meus hic sermo. This was at 'abject. ia lust § 7 eale.".Fr, sai,d, whatever the hen. gen tl e a 8 4t down might think of th e character' ', tilts side the house—however the hon. mem 41 reps l4 altee th em as a d verse t o liberty, and inclined L C•4 Y noa'aces, he thought h e mig ht sa f e l y appe ' and-eaPq t . ; 43 / 1 6ner and better kn ow n p o liti ca l li ves f r . „_titis were l ike ly 'on light Or trivial grounds, rl t to interfere 'With the liberty of the subje( 03...aftex night, week after week, month Ole r ests.to the impo rtunities, taunts, and app teen who pressed them' to adopt measures beyond a.eu!d, .1 a! , e,a, s wn4 haß f ot t cbhu h ! ejetea Glare elc authority P a wer of the Paw with a view to repress disturl Ile asked if, in the eases of Clare ,th e e n L'itunty, ministers, had shown any desire a credit for the Manner in which they cam( tsvdot there bit' give eYi a hwl t a h d e b appe are d yaw g tet e :r n sru I t' d P e :l b ss 'iited the government in the enforcement of of t tztle them they put themselves at the head of ti f ront it counties, and met the cry of intimidatio they appeered to serve ern petty juries a j a gs, and took u pon themselves the invidious ti e j a ' administration of justice at a moment wh at et persons shruuk from the performance 01 a Inconel:it when but for the exertions of thei Lae law emild not have been enforced. (Hear.) ° P e alY, without regardin g whom he might offend t 4ti o that the gentlemen of Kilkenny had shrui b `ii•Y; that they had not placed themselves in the ab le, nor displayed that degree of zeal and enerl raenasonably u w hia n o s d. t ;ri i t u l f Di yl n arei g w o; have - been expected from them. Hi thehapst imputation on those gentleman, when Y 'lad a •ted h •promp titude arid vigour, b ay , more promp e peen a better chance of repressing the disturl outset, Rich pi tches') But when those disturbances ht Z!)a they had now reached, and when erations of the law, though applied in the mos tr t'aer, had failed of effect, there was no reason, when the King's government should not f Y, " whatever be the mischief of establishing to demanding powers beyond the law, it is our pat r,propose the adoption of such a course as we co vitiated to restore and reinforce the law to protect P e rtY, and • - t t ted country.' t he . vela peace oa is rac . picture ich he should have to draw, of the s to Ireland, he allowed was not universally appl I,oodition of the country lae. n the conti :i i led his statement of its applicability, with few e: 'le extent of the province of Leinster; not that fairthere did not exist partial disturbances in otl of ested the a s claim to further powers . g vernmen .'•.4 province; and as in asking for ext raordi ministers did not rest their case on the condition 0,. ,Ireland, but on the state of a particular portion not seek to apply the required remedy to th a rge, but only to that part which seemed to demi cation. He feared it would be necessary for hit Correa attention of the house by reading extra. epondehice of many indi viduals in various e a°,, h i n , i t . rY, and by detailing: the paticulars of sever : . "al outrage, involving . peculiarly atrociou ea.rttinie- The first communication to which he she coention waecontaiued in a letter from a magistrai raitultY. According to the writer's humble view ItY and wise volley of government, he placed t vi t4 i! Inquiry into grievances with a view to redress th the wish and determination to resist a t Was a misnamed liberty, and which involved- the mail Y-headed mouster, thus combining the or la,atages of the Government of an autocrat and of th "e lacture which this gentleman gave of the state thouaart of Ireland was extremely melancholy. I i tl Pastances of one or two outrages that had bee] am' s ; 'To neighbourhood, which clearly showed t le e exertion, with a view to the • repre h a r. was now futile if not foolhardy. He stated 1 lion . 1 1,?ceeded to the height of an almost general • ea st a participation in crime alone appear urity amo u r the humbler classes; that such be: tel aaY Were the to join the lawless disturbe slo es' who refused to unite ia or ventured to resist t ate were left unaided by any tangible law, unpFol P h gentleman then p wer. ihe right on. gen q u l t lue a series of outrages, with which the publi , i - n - ulted, and said that this statement, strong and eul',,,veaveyed only a partial exhibition of the facti di s ,,` 44 not briug under review the utter demora ne-iganizetion of society which prevailed. ihe 2 il l ' 4l said that he did not find, in 150 cases which inst.t°4gh, a single on e connected with tithes, (tiel etet" ef the person or nroperty . el' a gentlema t 'f aggression • but the wea k , the destitute, heu,rers, w i d ows, families—in a werd , t ee 'esS and unprotected classes, were the vict. Wh parties o• he were exposed to acts of violence ; (Ch c , ra4(le the bloud run cold when they veer, tort e .) If this was the liberty for which gentler oe.aded—the liberty which the . government was c g i ag - -the liberty not of doing what was most jute e l s, but of injuring and wronging those who less d the liberty of essa*sinat der, of .an unprotected—the (I fern rue Undnight burglary and outrage, of e _ a t its the I ! land luf r i e laws of the and he welt-belin 0 1 6 h e algement on this species of liberty ministers w admitt dindeed guilty (e 4( to that they were most 4 0 w eak and ensure the liberty of the . wetlAt th o 4 , ; --- if to maintain the public peace—if to, vindu of the law—if to guard the poor man's hear Via" 'le the duty of a government, call this a were] ,itleaastitutional, and arbitrary bill if you le s , at 4 t,erui of reproach you please ; but he . coutemie Ire.`Liat it was a bill which, far from injnring or 1,10. directly to preserve and perpetua te . liberty i i eat't genuine character. Ills noble friend had sta e,tra,geasufdeient to justify ministers in the cow danger, hid he had stated them in the plainest a and if s ( Mr. Stanley) found any thing at it, t, .• that hi tuut ."e speech of his noble friend, it was e at e.ristateil the case, and had not dwelt on all eilia'in's of those atrocious offences with sutßcient ful is noble friend had mentioned the nn ,'ll, H which Was attempted to be—could he say " 011 Ourable and learned gentleman opposite, thya l l,...rcLer not to be an act of a deliberate nature . , ~ a drinikeu labourer, and arising out of tk le •e4Ol the moment. Let the house look at th e 4iattaturder as given by a person en the . spot. ti a it, that, an express having arrived intorming li te4',lt.,, t ° ll had beeu shot, he hastened to the, spot, at 'wt. Irian already dead; he added,. that the dcci ote l lsiVe, quiet man, guilty of no crone except . t i l early tithes which Were his only suppert. Mi.l terl'Y years of age. This atrocious murder, w li .ta fence teed in rnid-day, was no act of drunken i iri be to 4.% ,f ter he had been murdered, no one could _ carrying the corpse into the house, and treali n xoue ' 9u l,i'enderedfrantic 14 the went seene, eut on hi "taiiel t h e people present to assist the narrate! of rest -I'4 the ma i ds in bodyin, the . He ar h ttt only with a fu only , d eers ar tiros he to vii iteni by item throin tile' "e of cr . tiett he do more than ea reur • • rime" , • •- • Cup the prese ° tie hadb° B recnunted this nrgl? d with phnigied—a fact wirvh carr ! 0. re, h" a state Oriocity o ß .immg to . bc one t fai ~°hool• IttenaVer for Ki 'cnny said that tit .. ttals compared with fUrilter Y..aar"• at r toN him that wasi'also coroparativ: r e it; would ha.v,been . a. shb_leci - yor con q a It"w as "Yt increased outran the eel:l"7liittals were tbese ZPrbef that laud as it stood was not suffic, fN s • 'lle was told that at the t f or I! there was - nOl'aeirigle case ; ttiq file 9rthe county frail ? 11° ' • fiitce in e ' infilaidatiOn.; tty; - Want! otr! Con fi der:lc re - irraf' Stf thei'lai . and the execution of justra tbura_ l4 PcPssary fOilhWitiiiiied to suffer in, silta lea e `t Vd their - adorn . . S..aftCr §}3 . ' lea s Qf crime. in the p s i:evince; of Leinster he • e r eign, Of terror grid intjmidation that pens, (uP4vailed upon to cone fin:Wardeither as jurors ilcs•ear.)! The icc, re were a - c'es famili r es yho dared h h had acted' ca a., a list ofp . p . rsons w 9 au,d that list gave, the names four i? 4 4 , 1 been compelled to, leave their homes, or t i e 4. under constabulary protection: In the cos a. Person haraed - JOyce, so very few person te a coroner's jury that it was necessary to get " op the numb er requ i re d . H e . Was b o rn () pillion by the statement of respectable magistral wa s he state of'te r i o i which existed in Ireland, ti