The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-07-23 00:00:00

JULY 23 19 ao -0 . of LenoredfirtuN karr said he begged leave to assure the noble lord ly ith th et, which was, that the persons who were not( watching . the _ e deepest anxiety for the failure of the present bid, were the 17; 7 persons who were carrying on the conspiracy against ea_ ~.utetant church. The right rev. prelate had not been very as a ,c,li . l l in stating the purpose of the measure, for he had argued abolition bill proposed to effect only one object, and that the was of the' cess. Now, that, though a very material, m : not the only object of the bid. He Was not disposed to rrel with the light rev relate's statement that the establish ea the Protestant church in Ireland, considered as a whole, wa s tot_ean overgrown one; but he certainly thought that there „ ad aou poitian of the establishment very much overgrown, v tiother portion he would say, for want of a better term, (211i:such tinclergrown. The bid proposed to take from some a,bas e l meal bet's of the establishment a portion of their super tret, rant wealth, and to divide it amongst their less fortunate ad all _.`; ell- Auuther object was the building of chu r c hes, ' il tao.teer the building of glebe houses: . The right rev. prelate ri,."dteentered into calculations to show that no fund could I e euder the bill beyond the sum which was necessary that the 'payment of vestry cess; but he had•no doubt that if tile bill should go into committee, it would be found I,lthe right reverend prelate was entirely' mistaken. — sigh t were specimens of the absence of consideration which the th e 1 , r _ev- prelate had brought to this discussion. He said that h e ~e 3t rY cess was not considered by the Irish as an evil; but ~....L.Lntord P lunkett) spoke in the presence of noble lords ac and":ll, ed with the state of Ireland, ou both sides of the house, d o he appealed to them whether the vestry cess was not consi tl;ere4 a grievance of the utmost enormity, and felt as such by sh. Poorer classes : from its very nature it was calculated to be tea atl (l e 4 l%) A wretched being unable to provide for the ses whiol e f his family, to be taxed for the service of a church with prelate contended no connexion, and for which, as .. the right rev. , he entertained an habitual dislike ? ( Hear. ths,"4TdPlunkett) wantedno evidence further ; and he asked i --e nebl dattached -s L. & ~ -or s who were to the Protestant interest . aaeve.anu, and who wished .to strengthen that interest,• to ie- 1 th einse r it_i of those burdens of which agitators see ta k nt to nh a u v r a c i h of Irel--"'s in their attempts to overturn the ?rotes alone ,lnd• It was a serious grievance, and on that account the interest"lewanted this soothinq and salutary measure to protect i, ~.,.s of that church. Government, seeing the dangers to raise that church was placed,. thought. it incumbent uonit p er ,'" a lurid that should be applied strictly to ecclesiastical Ors r °B es, and they- had recommended- to his Majesty to signify r - ' a bsent to a measure being introduced into the other house Perli s Ile s b il , merit to effect that purpose. The other house had passed fur a 11 ' 1e , Lot with any levity,, as the *right rev. prelate supposed, th at , asure cduld not have been conducted with mucti levity th e „`°4 three months to discuss. (Hear.) The measure had hik se T, l ne !o this house ,_• and the right rev. prelate had thought th ut,,, chhtled to say of it,—and it was unice ; tenate that . he of Q p i .„" s o sPeak Orstich a: meashre,—that it sanctioned spolialpu that get!) , and robbery: Hear, hear.) "Was it an allegation ill_ drharnent had no tight to legislate respecting the property 1 4 0 ..7 church? Was it an allegation that this was . a matter kte'defthe la*? (Hear; hear.) That was not a doctrine ealce s '4 ( lir the present day. (Cueers.): He (Lord Pluukett) did t 'f th e e e k r from' anyepinion he'had eutertainedas to thyn to ope e r , 'act ed ref?. He still held the property ot the chute i b t. a e Prop er 'Posit. Nothing was more idle than to ask whether li li4 lae tY of the church was or was not . under the control of Par (Hear4t; But property was under the control of Parliament : — too l 4, iota when he said so, he felt . that it was a grave thing oe ad ,v with that property, unless in a case of necessity.— was p r t ned that, in a certain - sense, the property of the church necessity.— pro 4,e t .property; it was, however, like other church e ',"°est Y ,' w hieh was private property in the same seese as "11, '' and might be applied to the purposes of the corpora an i s . ' • • , w a , , 'a as within the power of Parfiainent so to apply it "ever . contended that iu concurring iu this enactment the_ l ists- e f i sga would be violatin the oath he took at the corona ~bs,r l e T is a _t, in short, the coronation oath opposed an insuperable gsert,7 sanction of such a measure. He would . take the ,4141 he "" state his notion with regard to the coronation oath, - ',,ti ros wo uld state, candidly and fairly, that he had . no recol l eatiei r ` u at the oath was stied in former times in a different I st eel that in which it was now used. It appeared to him lthe ke coronation oath was a contract entered into between. 'ee ea itell!and his subjects, lay as well as ecclesiastical,—be ndia v one as well as the other. This - contract was equally b ut with,, all, not simpl binding with respect to. the . clnch, s ay th if to the w y hole people. Be would go Jurther . and Net e ! t if the oath produced the people with whom . it was icr co n n a T itt eat " . 90 benefit, then it might be 'diverted from its or ~i_ its Pree sa i i, but as to its implying a compulsory discharge _of _i n_ K te rts,4l B when that performance would be contrary to the i ' l st E t" t he parties with whom the oath was contracted, from ,Opi 4io octri ne ~, „ he solemnly protested. The oath was, in his I le k e ce ll ere`ning more thair - a solemn . attestation, in the pre mst e Go d between the King and his subjects. (Hear, hear.) ells thon:t,raet, like all other contracts, might surely be put an ,tslted ,‘,!,atil the consent of the parties contracting. If it were ' O p "'nether the coronation oath vsere merely a vow between ,ktty a tn r ' i L es i and understood to bind in ems-sense -ia which each h ,. l , t estai; ° ' it, he would answer yes; it was merely a solemn cllit ;','' a between man and man • and in this latter meaning -I Y, e " 01 the case arise in which' all classes of the people, 4 6ii , ,:e4 the King himself, might desire its abrogation e But tia lloe ti s id this bed On...• how coin' *the general wishes of the d it4 (l itrueev Fatified; if . ' the oath were registered in heaven lesk„ °cable ? (Loud cries of Its a . vet s epuld " Heer.") Such a to pg e put every species of- improvement 1-1,- 4 it . „„._, , r am 'um be impossible to escape from its trammels. L Na4 . a 1, 1 `,e . (1 that the reservation of the church as established '" to v ,h4,-Leatental article 0f the Act of Union, nor did he n. m w ea a n s i k Q tei t ; a la i t even if there was no coronation oath the Kin,, 4 t "Y bound to the maintenance and preservation of b . oth . ti ar ticle ' Litie e. and the church establishment: the King was just ~,,m e asure jilt ho und as he was under a thousand oaths. It had never ~,,kess „ e a uled by his noble 'friend or the government to propose dodo h o was ca . lculatecCeither to injure or overthrow the Oci so, '• so tar fiom the resent measure being calculated ,„ 4 7Ies ies ne would. maintain present measure being calculated would maintain that . the proposed measure was h sultr e h and would have the effect of . ” oil) , .preserving the lie kit the rights and privileges of its =eaters, and that ~b ll ell s t ' s i t was passed, speedily, ,danger to the establishment 111 ue feared. (Hear.) • Ire could not shut his eyes to the st:h?feithe times, and he saw the danger in which the Pro- NT 'lurch of Ireland stood, and he feit the difficulty to Hea r,) it, not against its enemies, but against its friends. Z,80,„4 He would say, then, do not delay this bill, but pass te t i, ilev • for by' lelai it mi r ,oht become inefficient or, - at least, '44"e ua'tholic EmancipitiOn Bill it might be said that this titti,, l ,N had not been passed in tile' e. He would also desire the;, : iordship s to look back - to . the - 13111; - 13111; - and remind tl that when their lordships had seen evils staring them in bt ti l l es, which it was impossible to mistake as being violations I I N tconstitution, yet they had refesed toiemove those evils, getit,ge refusal had' come hack Upon them to an extent that lier resistance was impossible: . Such had been the conse '4 t i ! of their pertinacious Opposition to the reform measure, ~,%troar,`",e feelings and passions of the people had become so , 41 1 s , 61 Y excited. it became dangerous longer to refuse assent. "otl,'"Ple expeCted to be represented, .and when so, that the b L 'eh uf reform shOuld proceed.. . it e tart. f M •se 'LD opposed the measure, and concluded L t he a lit i ss b ° y observing that he should infinitely prefer seeing ite ' s t ' la u Catholic religion established in Ireland, as the.pres - e.,11-eo. religion was established in Scotland, to the passing of 4 1 . 1) ts r e - „ e o ut measure, which m . ntilated the Protestant church, It s tr ,„ e encourage in the minds of Roman Catholics hopes tilli'll'''ut extinction. ri g to hope, from the a ,e ef ve , Lens of LANsnowNE was wi...n,,, . 'Nei 'tat he had heard, and from the temper manifested_ h t ke a urtirds who certainly were not prejudiced in favour of the .._ ~,t'srie:that other opportunities would be afforded for dis ester re subject hereafter by the house now assenting to . t h e _ 44 4 4 -e a a j in g• 'He thought some advantage would be derived t) steti h einpt to heal wounds that had been caused and kept Pi t . i an t o ,Illu i , ~ ll nwiliingness, on the one. hand, to admit of the ap so,,Seep °,,Proper remedies, and by a disposition on the other Cge h ative rankling animosities. They had been • told b) 0, ' , hie i il`.4e 00 or s that t ey were prec u e r . d 1 l d d f om adopting the si P ei i t w proposed by some immutable law or rule which xen t:W t o i ts Possible to touch the established church even with . e (I, 41 t0 a , l e , s b enefit and improvement. If so, of course it would dtl etl ey 6 Lher useless to enter into those considerations of expe lekde oe°at'„w,hich, notwithstanding the denunciation of the noble able pi ed he thought it indispensebie to rest his vote: But t e e ob sta ,n to the existence of this preliminary and insuper- Wefos,, 1. ". If, however there ready was such an obstacle s a 'ed t cet ' .. o die church, the' last conclusion he should be ilis keestabliTw from its existence would be as to the safety . of th t e lee ed. s hment in reference to which all improvement was b at est s w i „ (Loud Cries of " Hear, hear.") II the abuses of h„ sehiColnent were permitted to continue, the church would I n c 4 1, 4 ~,it the spectacle of a great and flourishing constitu- In ;°41 11 , - i °ol,l gradnaliv.assume a character of decay and ruin.. i t e e b oil let him adil, that if their lordships should concur 4 tn ite before them, as he hoped they would, he did augur tc rt h 'ls it, s sing into a'law not a rapid but a gradual, safe, and a e„ , stej,j, l l r ovemen* i 'the fortunes of Ireland, not excluding (03e tee Chur ' eh tl and all interests connected with it, and ~,ese,ret stimulus in the general prosperity of. that country. t• The' lie ear !) . . . tIl i; "Ike of Cumberland and Earl Grey rose at the - same t he e e as i . . . . , le,,,deh at u le earl observed, that, as they could not hope to bring k Zs wh n e to a close that night, as there were yet so many noble tl '` l ati o " °'ould probably take a share in the discussiou, and as tit"' hen ii V,ttlo noble marquis (Londonderry) stood for to...inor •ksti , h '''"ed, to sug rest to the noble marquis the expediency li ti s 44'he-his motion s relative to Portugal to a future day. g ibe d i a nnis of LONDONDERRY was understood to . constat ; [l t h .. uot hear to what day he postponed his motion. h° s lot adjourned at half-past one o'clock. 'pi, tloi T ___________ Lot . alt w ei. SE OF COMMONS, TUURSDAY, JULY 18. e i ,i 41 A y was opeued at a quarter past twelve. s 'e t• sl riltr moved.the oruer of the day, that the house re- T 'elf i v e 1 1 „ oto committee upon the Factories' Regulation Bill. e i 4 +4, ed re then went into committee. I , e fi r ,:-Tlio RP suggested the propriety of taking the second ti le r d 4. 4% it involved the greatrincile of the Is . ill. ' l l, 3 Jelle n i t ", LEY, aceeded to the propositiondeclarnag that if T h ld h n lee cecided against hiin on the second clause, he i lle i ' nrst ,V ) anderi the other parts of the bill, L e glir. • I ause Was then postponed, and the Second put from V td kta 8 4 ' c a l led tleuP rose and said, the question the committee Or o the upon to decide was whether the number of hours of ellie,rilto4sgtaeltd(eig,lirt,een years) ' mentioned in the clause were Dr ote O t ee , . • A he first point was, were persons of the age t ee s e tioa .el rs to he considered as children requiring legal Pl. O ' O l4 E O i . , And the second was did the committee consider , 1 4 „ 1 : 1 0 ,. s e in 4 o t 1 0 , n r . _ ! a c h day . too much or too little? . He . did n no to t tin A p er , o : wa y to interfere with the protection given being hi s os ov S'ir J. protection bill. So far from that t °lject:he o tif ext etdo _ . would at once consent to .its .provisions tees ci s ed he duninother mills than cotton ones. (Clieers.) very i ) ll etC r dble ap ,, r ''k at the bill then in committee w!th kp, er th e , e eu.cosion. (Hear, hear.) The question was, It kl a tendencyurnitation of hours proposed in the bill would not )ss Iteelear t to produce such a calamity. He thought it' ~ga f f age e s at ifAheY prevented all persons under eighteen. L 1 41 1 11 : 4 4- I : re la r tile) an7tPhwtnrreknitn. t g he longer than ten hours a dav, the manufacturers from working their . orsshing. th Pegod- Then, what would be the effect of 4 -i ' e manufacturing labour of the country to ten %,,siii',ntires were unfett j.„f..., when all other nations who were rivalling us in might be 1 / 4 gly ef tress? It ered.m their mode of conducting . their I, l Bes e ct of it Would 1') and it had before been said, that the . 't , : l 'I!(1 ieaPital, and b .e to k:tOte4.4,34l):ethh_e, ineterest u make the manufacturers embark a Odd more mills, so that the only loss pon the extra capital. (Hear, hear.) i i'ssV i... Pre sen d i a t ,b en told, and he believed it to be the case, that I t i r a qis, at tile 'r o e, though in full work the manufacturers were (Ist.til°eeduetion wnestt possible profit .'if' therefore, any consi -044 not s r„rhatrotit,took place, the effect would be ti li a). e enti 'cm . 5 . would oe working at a loss, and they 0 8 'ltra n „. 4 i- their business. The conse uence, therefore, t f °f tl ^ er nelit that w h til e w r'Pr'ills would ol! ‘ 'cl 'diminish materially 'g the opera-I,eut 13 t . -n let• ' Thos act in a similar manner on the wages o e t. , _elle every _oe wages, it was well known, were at the , y 1 i l fe d with a d: ' °ll l/,4 1 .he se er i c Y ti g' an dorate he thought that the advan q only working for ten hours a-day, ac iSte,`t)e eat. ~,earuninution of their wages, would not confer ot. ' . l l B e v col lu,' ..) The house had heard a great deal of the h': oe, employed ip these manufactories had upon the health of itlt the t , ges ierata . It had Leen stated before the COrimailte.e tlp e,i,, Ppearanee rif tbe young persoes was pallid, eence before the mnowasioners it had been stated that that was generally in the boys, but tliat the girls were as healthy as they possibly could be. With respect to the . defor may of the person, it was in evidence that most cases.of fortuity had occurred when the machinery was differently con structed, and at a time when the operation of the machinery so constructed had a tendency to produce deformity. Having these views, he must 'confess that he did not look to any altera tion in the present system with any degree of confidence, but with fear and trembling. However, he was inclined, and he thought that was going as far as the legislature could safely proceed —to p r ot ec t those who were totally unable to protect themselves; and in his opinion that protection ought to be ex tended to children not having entered their 14th year. The recommendation of the commissioners was, that they should . not work more than eight hours a-day, and in that recom mendation he was inclined to acquiesce,• because he did not think the effect of adopting that course was likely to be de structive of the interests of the manufacturers of the country. The noble lord, after again beseeching the committee to act with caution, concluded by proposing,, as an amendment, that instead of the word "eighteen" the word "thirteen" should be inserted ; expressing, at the same time, his intention of follow ing that up by substituting "eight" instead of "ten" hours, agreeable to the recommendation of the commissioners. Lord Astmor said if the noble lord was unwilling to take upon himself the responsibility of the measure, he (Lord Ash ley) was quite willing to take all responsibility on himself to. the extent of his proposition, and should always rejoice at the result. He was much astonished to hear the minutes referred to as not affording allegations of the evils arising from the pre sent mode of employing the children. Had the noble lord read the evidence of lir. Loudon ? Lord ALTHORP.—Look at the others. _ Lord ASHLEY:---Well, he would do so; he would turn also to that of Dr. Hawkins. But first of Dr. Loudon. That gentle man stated that the present prolongation of labour was an act of the utmost cruelty. He protested against the proposition of the noble lord, because he knew the difficulties that would at tend it. He took his stand originally, and he took his stand now, entirely ou the testimony of the medical men, that ten hours a-day were sufficient for females not eighteen years old. Lord ALTIIORP proposed (it being three o'clock) that the chairman should report progress. The house • resumed, the chairman reported, and obtained leave to sit this evening. The Speaker then quitted the chair. The Speaker resumed the chair shortly after five o'clock. LOCAL COURTS. Mr O'CONNELL postponed until this day next week his mo tion, " That it is the duty of the reptesentatives of the people of this realm to take measures for the more expeditious; conve nient, and cheap administration of justice by the establishment of local courts of judicature." Mr. WASON moved for a return of all orders in council under which slaves hactbeen • transported to Demerara from the Ba hamas, or any other British - colony, since the peace in 1815; as also for the.ay.erage price which - such slaves produced at the judical sales during the period. of any such transportation. .. The house then went into. :.ounnittee op the ' • FACTORLGaI.TEN I.IOCESr4.BILL. When the discussion on the amendment proposed by Lord Aliborp was resumed. On a division the ()umbers were — For the oliginal clause 93 For Lord Althorp's amendment 238 Majority On the admission of strangers, . . Lord ASHLEY said .that as this bill had now,. after a full dis cussion, been fairly defeated, it would ill become• him to offer any further interference. It. was now at the disposal of his Ma jesty's government. He (Lord Ashley) had not taken up the bill - from any desire merely to obtain popularity, but he had been actuated solely by a wish, if posSible,.to benefit the work ing classes of this country; and he could . only say. in addition, that into whose ever hands the bill might. pass for disposal, might Gud prosper his endeavours. (Cheers.) WEST INDIA SLAVERY. On the suggestion of Mr. STANLEY, in. answer to a question. from Mr". Stewart, (as we' understood,) this question was post poned until Monday. The remaining orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at half-past one. HOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY, JULY 19. CHURCH TEMPORALITIES (IRELAND) BILL. The order of the day for resuming the adjourned debate on the above bill having been read, The Earl of ELDON rose, consistently with his deep sense of public duty, to oppose this measure. He well knew what had been going on in this country for the last forty years; and if the same system were pursued for some time longer, he believed that there would be no House of Lords. (Hear; hear.) Let noble lords look to what had been doing for the last twelve months. Was it not evident;froin thnse proceedings, that there was a determined conspiracy on foot to put an end to that house? (Hear, hear.) Such was the fact; and nothing could preserve the House of Lords but a determination at ail hazards to do their duty firmly. (Hear, hear.)" 'He' had' been raised to his present rank from a'verV huinble situation; he therefore was not insensible to the interests, the real interests of the peo ple.. But, undoubtedly, he was opposed to the practices which had recently prevailed amongst them. He clearly saw all the consequences that were likely to follow from what was now going forward in the country ; and their great duty was to re store to the house that character which it enjoyed three or four years ago. (Hear, hear.) If they did not, a very short time would elapse before it would happen that re individual would have an opportunity of addressing ia House of Lords in that room. (Hear, hear.) It was a matter of little importance to him, for his life drew near its close ;, but he 'was determined in supporting the rights of that house, to submit to all consequences, rather thau abandon one of them. (Hear, hear ) The high in rank, the high in mind, the high in opulence, ought all to unite in securing the independent powers of that house.— The bill itself appeared to him to be one of the most extraor dinary that ever was introduced to their lordships' house. Could they conceive, knowing what they did of this bill, that it would be the limit of change and alteration? (Hear, hear.) As a peer of that house, treinblingly'alive to its interests, he would ask, could' any one amongst them doubt that innovation would not end here? (Hear, hear.) If such a doubt existed in the mind of any noble lord, he then would say, that he knew much less of what was going on in .the-country-than lie (Earl' Eldon) did. (Hear, hear.) He' would, however, at all risks and at all hazards perform his duty. The people of this country, one of whom he was, and one of whom he hoped he still remained, were misled.' (Hear, hear.) The bill then before their lord ships was a direct., a clear, a plain fraud on the Protestant, establishment of this country (hear, hear,) and he would oppose it to the utmost. (Hear, liear.) A noble lord opposite had said that he was a friend to the Protestant establiShment, but an enemy to its abuses. He (the Earl of Eldon) was nota friend to abilses of any kind; but when abuses were talked of, they ought to be pointed out. He perceived that, by the bill, churcli rates, as now collected, were to be removed. Now, was there a man who would say, when that system was done away with in Ireland, that church-rates would continue to be collected in this country? (Hear, hear.) The thing was impossible. There was already one parish in the metropolis where divine service was suspended, in consequence of the refusal of the parish ioners to agree to the customary rate. (Hear, hear.) lie felt that he had trespassed too long on their lordships' time and attention ; but he felt it necessary, even if it were the last pub lic act of his life, as perhaps it would be, to protest against this measure. (Hear, hear.) He could not have retired from that house with comfort or satisfaction if he did not bear with him the self-conviction of his mind, that he had honestly done his duty. (Hear, hear.) the Bishop of LONDON in a Jesuitical speech supported the second reading. The Archbishop of DUBLIN would not hastily give his assent even to the second reading of this bill, unless he had maturely. weighed the consequences and considered whether any better means could be devised for meeting the exigencies of the present crisis. The present question was so fully, discussed by much snore able and practised debaters - than himself, that it was not necessary for him to enter into the discussion of the general subject, and the more so as his general opinions had been given before a committee o f their l oi d - s hips a year and a half ago, and the evidence was now on the table of the house. It was un necessary for bins to remind their lordships that there was at present a large body of persons in England, as well as in Ire land, hostile to the existing constitution, to the church, to that house, and, above all, to that bench, and who were at that mo ment hovering, like vultures over a field of battle, waiting to prey upon the corpses of those that should be struck down in the conflict. He, therefore, confidently hoped and trusted that their lordships would disappoint the expectations of those per sons by laying aside all party feelings at the present moment, and by milting cordially together in devising measures for se curing the safety and stability of existing institutions in church and state. Let their lordships do so, instead of indulging in personal reproaches and splenetic attacks, things that could only afford a subject for rejoicing to the enemies of their lord ships and the enemies of the country. the Archbishop of CANTERBURY said that it was always with considerable pain that he found himself opposed, upon any pub ! lic question, to his Majesty's ministers. It was a position which he might say was hardly suitable, and which was certainly al ' most new for an archbishop of Canterbury; and he must ac knowledge that he was not prepared for it, and that he had it not in contemplation when he was raised to the station which he now filled, and that, in fine, he had not been prepared for it by his previous habits of life and by his mode of thinking. It had hitherto been the policy and practice of the government, in all regulatiens respecting the church, to consult the heads of the church - in the first instance, before such Measures were brought forward. (" Hear, hear," from the opposition.) If, then, there should happen to be any differences of opinion, they might be settled by amicable dismission in private, and such a mode of proceeding had the advantage of preventing any hos tile collision in public between the ministers of the Crown and the heads of the church—au advantage which he considered to to he a very great one indeed. (Hear.) He by no mean's con ! cursed in the notion that the bishops of the cliiirch should im plicitly submit to the eietation of the government. But he felt, he would- not say the unfitness, but the great inconvenience of the situation in which h e was placed, in being obliged to oppose those persons on whom they (the bishops) must lean for support. Another disadvantage under which he lay on this occasion was, that, in opposing a measure even with the name of reform, he incurred the danger of being supposed to be au enemy to all reform. (Hear, hear.) lie ran the risk, under such circum stances, of having his conduct attributed to the worst of motives, —either to those of party feeling, which he had never exhibited, or to those of private interest, though he had really none in the case, (hear, hear,) or, in fine, to a bigoted prejudice that was opposed to every species of innovation whatever. On those acs counts, and for the reasons he had mentioned, he had stated as much as he could, to himself and to others, what reasons could be assigned for supporting this bill, and he was sorry to say. that he could not collie to the conclusion that he could - give it his support. (Chem; from the opposition.) They were told that ! Una measure was a boon to the people of Ireland for the coercion bill. He did not regard it as such; The coercion bill had, like magic, restored peace and tranquillity in that country, and it was itself, therefore, a real boon to the country. He was of opinion, that the vestry cess should be thrown on - the land lords, so as to relieve the occupiers of land in 'lreland 'from it. A board sitting in Dublin could never manage with advantage the affairs of distant churches,—it could not forma proper judgment of the sums really required for repairs, &c.,—it could nqt maintain an effectual superintendance, except through agencies, which might not be always trust-worthy, but which would be invariably expensive. (Hear.) Under' such a sys tem of management economy could hardly be expected; and how was the tax to be made up, if it should prove deficient, ex cept by imposing additional burdens on the clergy? The result would be, that the clergy must be greatly impoverished, and nothing would be wanting but a poor-rate in' older to complete their ruin. He was equally opposed to a transfer of the charge of vestry cess to the clergy and to an alienation of bishops' lands. 'But supposing the measure carried into effect, what were to be its results? One of its objects was stated-to be con ciliation—a most desirable thing; he freely admitted, more espe cially in Ireland; where; if Protestants - and Catholics could be brought to coalesce (it was a mere truism to say that), the country would be _completely - happy. But he was afraid that this attempt at conciliation would fail (hear), seeing that the object was to be attained, not merely by concession, , but by sacrifice, and that tha Property and feelings of one ',party were to be, hurt by what was given to the other. Not to delay their lordships any longer,. he should object to this THE LIVERPOOL STA N DARD. bill—that the principle of reform which it contained was only a subordinate consideration; that conciliation which it contem plated would fail ; he objected to it because it went to apply the property of the church to purposes for which it was not intended; ne Objected to it because it would give a triumph to the Catho lics over the Protestants, which would not. tend to the harmony of that country; he objected to it because it was the most sweep ing measure which had ever been applied to the church : that it dispossessed the property of the church from its ancient own ers, and gave it to others who had no right to it whatever; and what was more, that the bill contained not one word to make this a special case, and to state that it should not be drawn into a precedent, and that its principle should not be applied to any other corporation in the kingdom. (Hear, hear.) The Duke of WELLINGTON said the noble and learned hold who spoke yesterday evening in the debate had statedthatmany of the evils which affected Ireland, and to some of which the present bill was intended to be a remedy, were caused by the delay of the measure of.emancipation ati.er the year 183; but he would ask how long agitation had existed both before and since that period ? Why, it existed ever since the question of the restricted reaency, and had continued till part of 1829 and part of 1830. Agitation was continued after tne events of the revolutions of Paris and of Brussels, and to an extent which ob liged the government to enforce the-Proclamation. Act. Now, what had happened after the accession of the noble earl ? He chose for the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland a person for - whom lie (the noble duke) had a high respect, but who, lie must say, was one of the last' men who should have been selected for that office (hear, hear); for, after the Catholic Bill had passed, what was the obvious policy of the government? They should have done all in' their power to conciliate,—whom? the Protes tants, for the. Catholics had already got all they wanted. Instead, however, of any attempt at such conciliation, they sent a man s for whom, he repeated, he had a high respect, but who,- before his recall from Ireland, had done that which, ought, under the altered circumstances of the country, to have prevented his reappointment; for, before leaving that country, that noble lord had sent forth a kind of proclamation encouraging the people to agitate (hear, hear) ; and certainly, whatever were the inten tions of that noble lord in that respect, it was perfectly clear that agitation had been since carried on to a vast extent. Now as to the bill before the house, he must say that it was founded on a conspiracy of priests and demagogus to intimidate by force and menaces . of mobs, and thereby to produce an effect on the governineut. This was done by orations and harangues, and seditious speeches, at public meetings, and by publications through a licentious press, and by every othermeans which they could use to get the people to act in large bodies. If any man set himself up in opposition to these measures, he was murdered, or his house destroyed, or his cattle carried off; and every possi ble means were then used to prevent the discovery of the guilty parties. Yet this was the result of the system recommended by the noble lord whom the noble earl at the head of the govern ruent had chosen to be the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland. There. could, however, be no doubt that one of the results of the system was a combinatioh not to pay tithes, for which a fund was raised to pay the expense of those who held out against the payMent, and allowed their cattle or goods to be sold under distress.— Resistance to this system was sure to entail the most fatal con sequences on the parties opposing. Every menus were taken to prevent persons from purchasing at the sales of property taken undet distraint for tithe, and the consequence was, that the clergy could not ccillect any tithe, and were in such a state of destitution that many of them were living on public charity.— Now, while this was going on, the Lord-Lieutenant admitted into his society, more than once, persons who had propounded resolutions, maintaining that they would pay no tithessave such as were legally enforced. Those individuals were afterwards prosecuted, and sentenced to pay a fine of £lOO each. But what happened afterwards ? The, whale of those fines were remitted. (Hear.) The officers of police did what they could, but nothing effectual was accomplished until the Lord-Lieatenant, in a manly and determined spirit, carried into execution the Procla mation Act,—an act of which he had disapproved in his in dividual capacity, and which he had blamed his 'predeces sor in office for enforcing. In carrying that act into opera tion the Lord Lieutenant was emiuentiy successful. Then the noble lords opposite thought it right to dissolve Parlia ment, and in consequence of that dissolution, the punishment,. which would otherwise have fallen upon the head of the prime offender, could not be carried into execution.-- In the course tthe present session the coercive bill was passed by 'their lordships : but he begged their lordships to recollect the alterations which were adopted in it in another place. Such was the apprehension exalted among the disaffected by the coer cion bill as it was originally framed, that for some time many clergymen were able to collect their tithes, and indeed even some part of the tithes' for the year 1833 were collected, under the operation of that act. One fine day, however, a gentleman discovered that a policeman or a soldier had given assistance in the collection of tithes, and it was in consequence determined by the government that in future such assistance should not be given. Since that time a notice had been published by the So licitor of the Treasury in Ireland which totally put a stop to the payment of tithes. That 'description of property was now no• longer in existence in that country,—no man thought of paying it. Three or four years' arrears of tithes was now due to the clergy, but they had not the slightest chance of ever recovering it. Now, he put it to their lordships whether, as this descrip tion of property was secure all the time that the Duke of Nor thumberland was Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, and as the coun try remained in tranquillity from the time of passing the Ca tholic Relief Bill up to September, 1830, it was fair in the noble earl to throw upon his predecessors in office the blame for this state of things, ihstead of taking it as lie ought upon himself. (Hear, ,hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that the noble earl could have done more than he had done, considering the policy of his government. Certainly, it was not the ob ject of the noble earl, or of his administration, to protect the Protestant religion or the Protestant church . establish ment in Ireland, though he admitted that the care of those matters is one of the paramount duties of government. (Hear.) Let their lordships look also at another branch of the Protestant church, which depended on the church cess. That cess was always paid with considerable difficulty and grumbling: There was greater facility in opposing the-levying of church cuss even than there was in the opposing the levying of tithes. There was-thus no provision left at present either fur the ministers of the church, or for the retrial- and sustentation of places of worship, or for the fences of the churchyards, or for the salaries of the clerks or the. other officers whose duty it was to attendand take - part in the church service. There was also another class of persons attached to the church of Ireland—the bishops ; and he would shortly state the situation in which they stood at present. The hierarchy of the- church of Ireland were under stood fo have among them a revenue of £120,000 a-year. It appeared that two-thirds of that amount was paid to them in tines, and those tines were paid annually for the renewal of the leases, of their tenants.. Under the law that was passed in the last session, the bishops were placed under the necessity of re ceiving from their tenants the ; tithes of, the lands, which those tenants held in lease, as the bishops were to pay the tithes them selves. In expectation. of the forthcoming. measures, the tenants refusedto renew, and the bishops were thus deprived of two-thirds of their usual income. Thus the curates had nothing, the incumbents had nothing, and the bishops had nothing, save the rents of their lands, which, on the gross, amounted to about £50,000 a-year. That was the entire amount of revenue which the clergy of the church of. Ireland had for the performance of their dunes and for the Maintenance and repair of their churches. The noble duke proceeded then to say, that he objected to the principle on which the ecclesiastical commission on the bill was to be framed. Except from the noble marquis (Clanricarde) who spoke on the first night of the debate, he had heard no complaint against the Board of First Fruits in Irelanda and he therefore could not understand why the affairs of the proposed commission should not be transacted by this existing . board, which might avail itfelf of such lay assistance as circumstances might require. He was free to admit that if they were then for the first time establishing the Protestant church in Ireland, he might be inclined to think that twenty-two bishops were more than was necessary to the supervision of some 2,000 clergymen; but when he i took into account that besides that the higher number had been in existence for centuries, and when he con sidered the importance of the Protestant church in Ireland in relation' to the political ties of the two countries, and when he ccnsidered, as, a right rev. prelate had remarked, in the course of the debate, that wherever there was a Protestant bishop there was also a Catholic prelate, who, doubtless, would possess him self of the palace and perhaps the chuich property of the re duced Protestant see ; and when, above all, he considered the peculiar circumstances of Ireland, so different from those of this country, and which might make the episcopal superintend ence of thirty or forty bend - ices in the former country a matter of more trouble and more anxiety than the GOO or 1,000 bene fices which an English prelate might control, he could not but object to the proposed reduction. ( Hear, hear, hear.) Auother portion of the bill, to which he also entertained strong objections, was, the clause which prevented the application of the public motley to the building.of churches in parishes in.which divine service had not been performed for three years. Would not a little reflection teach them, that the unfortunate circum stances of Ireland during the last few years, might have pro vented, and actually did prevent, not only the collection of tithes, but the celebration of divine service during that period? But this was not his main objection to the clause; he objected to it because it was a direct contradiction of the principles of those former acts of Parliament which were passed for promot ing the Protestant religion in Ireland. If they admitted that it was their duty, as members of a Potestant legislature, to pro ! mote the Protestant religion in Ireland, not only on political consideraticais, but a well-founded belief of the superior purity of its doctrines, they surely would not agree to a provision which, in thirty years, would lessen the Protestant churches in that country more than a half. One reason, therefore, for his • going into committee would be, the remedying this detect of the bill, emboldened as he was by the statements of ministers and the most rev. prelate, (the Archbishop of Dublin,) that the in tention of that clause was different from that apprehended by the friends of the church in Ireland. These were his main ob jections to the aroaisions of the bill. He had gone through' them with a view, to show the ground on which he shoved vote for the second reading. He had stated his views of the real state of Ireland, and of its causes, in order to show the expedi ency of their going into committee, in order to afford every possible relief to the clergy, who were the consequent sufferers. lie, had aiso . stated the defects of the bill, which he hoped to see remedied in committee. Lord MELBOURNE said, instead of observing the calmness and freedom from party virulence recommended by the right rev. prelate, the noble duke had given utterance to a speech fraught with more bitterness of feeling, more recriminatory, and more calculated to exasperate, than any ever heard in the most angry combats of peal'. The noble like charged ministers with having, as the first act of their official career, appointed to the Lord Lieutenancy of Ireland a nobleman of all others the least fitted for the office. (Hear.) Now, this was a mere asser tionovhich he might meet with a counter assertion, just as valid and far more . tenahle, that Lord Anglesey was the fittest person that could have been selected for the Lord Lieutenancy of Ire land. Now, without pausing to ask, could the noble duke deny that ministers had, by the Coercion Bill, applied an energetic reined) , to the state of things thus forcibly described,—he would ask, did the noble duke, nay, could the noble duke mean to in sinuate that these lawless proceedings were those which Lord Anglesey meant to encourage when he told the Catholics to "'agitate" till they obtained their relief bill? ( Hear, hear.) Wasit fair, was it just, was it generous , in the nob le duke to so couple his definition with a reference to Lord Anglesey's letter as to make it appear that— 'The Duke of WELLINGrox.—If the noble marquis did not mean it, he ought not to have pursued such a course. The ex pression was an erroneous one. Viscount MELBoutINE,—The letter was, he admitted, an im prudent one, (cheers from the opposition,) and not such as he would have advised, but had the noble duke himself never writ ten an imprudent letter? (Cheers from the ministerial benches. The noble duke, though he confessed that it was necessary . to do something with respect to the church establishment in Ire land, contented himself with objecting to almost all the prori sions of the present bill, without suggesting any remedy of his own. lie (Lord Melbourne) thought that the bill was calcu lated to effect the purpose which it had in view, and therefore he entreated their lordships to read it a second time. (Hear, hear.) The Duke of NEWCASTLE objected to the principle of the bill inasmuch as he denied that it was calculated to afford any relief to the people or clergy of_lreland. Ile denied that he was one to whom the motto used by the noble earl, (Grey,) fiat justitia twat ctrtutn, could with justice be applied, since he Ind not blind himself to the consequences of the measure before the house. The Duke of WELLINGTON in eplanatinn said, that he ad vised loidi;hips, as mop of honour, indeed he considered them a 3 men of honour, bound, to send the bill to committee, and to make out of it a bill which woulc: atinid some relief to the clergy of Ireland. The Bishop of BATH and WELLS said, that he would vote for the second reading of the bill in consideration of the very large majorities it had obtained, after mature deliberation, in the other House of Parliament. (Cries of "Question.") The Bishop of IiEttEFOUD said, he also wished to state the simple ground upon which he founded his consent to the second reading of the bill. He consented to it from the feeling of con fideuc,i he entertained for those who had proposed it, and from the conviction which was strongly impressed on his mind that they would never sanction, much less bring forward, any mea sure which they did not in their consciences believe would be beneficial to the church, for he considered them true friends of the church. He confessed that many of the provisions of the bill gave him uneasiness and distrust; but he trusted they might be modified in committee. He thought it was for the safety of the church to pass the measure, and for its serious injury to reject it. The Loan CHANCELLOR then rose, and began by observing that he entirely agreed hi the sentiments just delivered by the right rev. pre late and the noble lord, and with them, was convinced of the absolute necessity of passing a raeasare of the description of that under con sideration ; but, though lie agreed with them both in this general proposition, he differed from them both in respect of feeling no re luctance whatever in giving the vote he was prepared to give for the second reading. It was evident that the first and primary duty of the King's Government was to preserve the lives of his Majesty's sub jects. Those were placed in jeopardy in Ireland, and under these circumstances of dire necessity, his Majesty's ministers, with un feigned reluctance and regret, proposed the present bill. In propor tion to the necessity for the enactment was the pain with which they yielded to that necessity. Ireland was then labouring under a compli cation of miseries ; in fact, society in'that country was in a state of complete disorganization ; and it therefore beCame the bounden duty of ministers and of the Parliament to institute an immediate inquiry into the circumstances of that state of disquiet, and to consider what measures might prevent a recurrence of those scenes. He would say at once, without the fear of contradiction from even the most com mon observer of passing events, that the diminution of the number of bishops had become absolutely and imperatively necessary. He alluded to the Irish bishops. (Hear.) Let any man compare that establishment with the English hierarchy . , either as regarded the numbers of the flock and the pastors appointed over the flock, or as regarded the amount of the congregation and the number of benefices, and he would see in one view the vast disproportion between the overlookers of the vineyardin each country, and a vast disproportion in the number of labourers. The disproportion in these particulars was such that he 'the Lord Chancellor) wondered not at all that it should have excited those feelings which it was known now prevailed. This country had a population belonging to the established church nine times greater than Ireland, yet Ireland had nearly the same number not only, of bishops but also of clergymen ; and surely, without going further into a comparison, it would not be denied that this dispropor tion was monstrous. (Hear.) But on looking to the revenues of the two churches, the disproportion would be found to be equally great. It would appear that in a country where the Protestant popu lation did not exceed 800,000 or 900,000 persons, the expenses of the hierarchy were nearly as great as where the Protestant population ex ceeded the former by at least nine times. (Hear, hear.) He felt it "ez quite eeessary after the statement made by his noble friemi at the head of the government at the opening of the discussion, to go inure into the details of this measure ; but he must assert that the people in both countries would not have been satisfied without some adjustment of these points. He had heard it said in the course of these three nights' debate, and if he mistook not, by the right rev. prelate oppo site., thet this was a measure of violence and spoliation, and those 'aeries not being suilicently strong and full of meaning to express the warmth of his feelings, the right rev. prelate added another—namely, " robbery," and he compared those who _proposed it to the highway man who stopped the traveller with the threat, " Stand and deliver." Then, if they were guilty of such a crime for delivering up those things, of what were those gyilty who delivered up two bishoprics, one in 1741, and one 1732 ? for the only difference between them was, that the one delivered up two bishops, and that the other proposed to deliver up ten. But it suited the argument of the right reverend prelate to speak of the church as a corporation, and to rail against the justice of Parliament interfering with its property. Did not the right rev. prolate forget that that house sometimes took upon it to deal with the property of the East India Company, which was in reality a cor poration ? (Hear, hear.) Had the right rev. prelate not very long ago, too, sat in that house from day to day, and for hours each day, while an act of Parliament was passing through it for wresting £30,600 from the Ilan& of that very corporation, to put it into the pockets of a gentleman of the name of Murray No one was more thoroughly or sincerely a friend of the established church of England and Irela.nd than himself,—none more convinced of the necessity of its existence, with a view to supply the essential wants of the people ; none more reluctant to do any thing—nay, more resolved to do nothing to shake its foundations, or do away with its necessary rights and privileges. But the-difference between him and his opponents consisted in this, that he was for, and they were against, adapting the church to the feeling and opinions of men over whom it was meant to hold sway in spiritual matters, and which feelings if it did reconcile to itself its ministers must teach and preach in vain. (Cheers.) For that cause he desired to see such salutary reforms and improvements introduced into the church as would render it more useful in practice, better en titled to the love and affections of the people, and more secure and permanent in its nature. Those were his opinions as to church reform : happily they had little application to the church in England. That there were defects in that branch of the church, and that they Would be remedied by the heads of the church, who felt every dis position td adopt safe and effectual remedies, he was well convinced ; and further, that Parliament, and the people of this land, would keep that watch over the church which would be wholesome for its interests and welfare, lie entertained a confident belief. (Hear, hear.) But they were now discussing that particular part of the establish ment with respect to which no man could deny that reform must be applied, if it was to continue to be useful and effective for the instruc tion of the people ; nay, if it was much longer to exist in Ireland: and unless some such measure as the present (and no substitute had been proposed for it,) were carried, unimpaired in principle, and in all its material provisions, the Irish church must be exposed to immi nent hazard ; nay, further, he submitted that there was an end to the security and permanency—a speedy end to the very existence of that church. (Cheers.) — Upon these grounds, and others of a like nature it was that he entertained a confident expectation that their lordships would pass this bill ; and assuming the second reading to be agreed to, he was sure that nothing could he done in the committee to at all cripple the efficiency of the measure. (Ilear.) That their lordships ! should ever think of passing the second reading of the bill, and going into committee upon it with the intention of introducing changes that would iuiaair its efficiency or materially change its nature, was a sup position that he would reject with indignation if ever he heard it mentioned—with an indignation proportionate to the respect he enter tained for their lordships. Consistently with that feeling of respect, it was utterly impossible for him to believe that the house would come to a vote of a colourable and collusive nature, in mockery of the peo ple of this kingdom, and fraught with a thousand times worse conse quences than . the manly and straightforward, though he thought deluded, course of throwing out the bill altogether on the question of its second reading. (Cheers.) The Duke of CUMBERLAND said, that when the noble and learned lord called those individuals bigots who considered the coronation oath as an obstacle to the measure, he felt compelled to say that to the maintenance of such an opinion he must again plead guilty ; for he could not for the life of him see how that oath was to be got over in the present case. (Hear.) He had heard much upon the subject, but he could consider an oath in but one way ; it was a mattcr be tween him and his God, mid he could not understand the distinction as to the possibility of taking . an oath in one capacity and not in another. And when it was said that there was a difference between takingsan oath in an executive and legislative sense, he owned that he could not understand it. He opposed this bill because' he could not forget thathe was—though a very humble individual—a• member of that filthily which had been called to the throne of this country in support of Protestant principles. He could not, therefore, consent to a measure, which in his conscience, he believed would lead to the annihilation of Protestantism in Ireland. Ile could not but remark, in passing, that there was a great error in making a distinction be tween the church of England and the church of Ireland. Since the passing of the act of union there was but one established church— that of the United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland, and any measure which tended to injure that portion of the establishment which was in Ireland could not but be fraught with danger to the establishment in England. (Hear, hear.) On these grounds he op posed the bill. He might, and no doubt he should be blamed in many quarters, for the part he thus took, but he gave his vote con scientiously, and he had no objection that the public should know what he felt on this important question. He had stated his feelings and opinions openly, and he hoped fairly, and by those opinions he would stand or fall. (Hear, hear.) The Duke of SUSSEX said that at that very late hour he would not presume to address their lordships but for the remarks which had been made by his illustrious relative—from whom he regretted to say that he differed not only on this but on many constitutional questions. He (the Duke of Sussex) would give his cordial support to this bill, and in doing so he considered that he discharged his duty to those great principles which had placed his family on the throne of these realms. Lord Witeeouri rose amidst loud cries of " Question," " Adjourn." The noble and learned lord said, that he was quite prepared either to adjourn :he question to to-morrow, or to go on at that moment. Noble lords vile° supported the transfer of church cess from one party to another seemed to forget that it was a charge on land, and that thbse who purchased the land took it with all its engagements. The cess was a condition annexed to the possession of lane, and the party who held the land must pay it as long as he held it. As well might a rent charge be objected to, on the ground that the object to which it was to be applied was different from that which the holder of the land desired, 1t was said that this bill was necessary on the ground of ex pediency ; hut he must contend that no good ground of expediency Md been stated. If Ireland could be reduced to peace and tranquil lity by the sacrifice of the church cess he would most willingly make it, for then there would be something gained ; but, he would ask, what had they hitherto gained by concession ? If they gave up this to-day something more would be demanded to-morrow. Here came his first objection to the bill. He did not dispute the right of parlia ment to dispose of ecclesiastical property, for ecclesiastical purposes, but he did object to taking ecclesiastical property and applying it to lay' purposes. Their lordships had heard a good of the 141tclause of this bill as the bill was originally drawn. He wished that that clause had not been withdrawn, for, withdrawn as it now was, it marked the designs of the framers of the bill. Their lordships, he was sure, would not forget that it had been distinctly avowed in the course of the debate, that the time, though it was not yet come, would soon arrive in which it would be gravely and seriously discussed whetter church property ought not to he applied to lay purposes. The noble and learned lord bad said, that if this bill were not the best bill that could be devised, it still deserved the support of their lordships, because it contained within itself the seeds of ameliora tion. Now, what did that language mean, when translated into plain English ? Nothing more than this—that this bill could be employed as the fulcrum for any lever which might hereafter be employed to subVert the church establishment of Ireland, The coronation oath divided itself into three parts, two of which evidently belonged to the King in his executive capacity ; but the third bound him in his legislative capacity. This was plain, because the two first divisions bound and specified all those functions which applied to the execu tive, while the third could only be interpreted as binding upon the legislative capacity, inasmuch as it enjoined his Majesty to observe the laws of God and preserve the rights of the church as by law established. It had been said, however, that as an earthly power imposed the oath, the same earthly power could absolve the King from its obligatious. This was a Protestant country ; there was no Pope, thank God, here to absolve them from their oaths—to keep between their consciences and Heaven. No power could absolve the descendant of King William 111. from the oath which hound him to protect •the Protestant church of the country ; therefore the King could uot content to the annihilation of II bishoprics out of 22 in the Protestant.church of Ireland. For •these reasons he should vote against the principle of the bill. Earl GREY' replied at considerable length, and towards the close o f his speech said that this bill had nothine to do with Catholics. He denied that it was a concession to the Catholics ; it was a concession to the Protestant church, in order to preserve it from peril. The noble earl concluded by a few remarks on the probability of the bill being materially altered in committee. He trusted that no such alter atious mi e eht be made in it as would ensure its rejection by the other • house Of Parliament. i f so, he would very much prefer its rejection at once, on the second reading. Ile could assure their lordships that he had endeavoured so to frame the measure as to prevent such a de cision being come to by them. This was his answer to the charge which had been brougtit aga inst him of endeavouring to conciliate a party whom he had no chance of conciliating. A noble earl, who spoke the other night, in alluding to the prohabdity of a collision between the two houses of Parliament, had declared, that if that col lision must come, the sooner it came the better. • He (Earl Grey) re geetted the avowal of such a sentiment. He could noly say he had done his best to lead thoulordships from the edge of the gulph on which such a step would be sure to place them. To comply with the reasonable demands of the people for reasonable reforms was not surely the likely way to produce convulsion in the country. He would say that the endeavour by their lordships to control public opinion was, however, the likely way to produce it, and instead of setting their face against all reforms, their lordships would more surely pre vent confusion ie the country by advocating and supporting them. The noble earl concluded amidst loud cheers. Their lordehies then divided, when the numbers appeared— Conteuts—nresent lO4 Proxies sd-157 Not-Contents—,resent 6B Proxies _ 30— 93 Mojoritv in favour of the bill .. . 59 The gallery was not re-opened, but we understood the bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next. Their lordships adjourned at a Quarter-past Four o'clock. HOUSE OF . COMMONS, FRIDAY, Itny 19. The gallery was opened at a quarter-past 12 o'clock. EAST INDIA COAIYANY'S CLLARTER BILL. On the motion of Mr. Grant, the house resolved itself into com mittee upon the East India Bill. The Chairman put the 89th clause, which provides for the appoint ment of two 'olshops, one for the Presidency of Fort St. George• and the other for the Island of Bombay. On this clause a discussion ensued which continued until three o'clock, when The house resumed, the chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again. • The house adjourned till five o'clock. The Speaker resumed the chair shortly after five o'clock. FACTORIES' 'SILL. An hon. Member inquired of the noble lord (Altliorp) oppbsitc what course the government intended to pursue in the future disposition of this bill. Lord A LTITOIIy said that he was not prepared to state exactly what would he done as to the specific clauses of the bill ; but, at all events, the children under 15 years of age would be protected. THE Iless._ao'r._ Mr. G. LAtin gave notice, that he should on Monday apply forleave to bri,& in a inli to amend the Beer Act. The hv.,ge Chun went into eozucalttee osi tint LAST INDIA .IfILL. - When the discussion on the tOth clause was resumed. Mr. Fired supported the clause. Colonel Ev,lNs opposed the clause. If is .19nI_Factical exierience in India made him averse to the pro Posed estaonsl!ment of Ili:31101)3, Be should not only oppose the chase now, but also, if on the brin4ing up of the-report. After a few further observations f7orn- Mr. Finn and Mr. Yowl- , 7 , both of whom rose amidst loud cries of " question," the house vided, when the numbers were— For the clause Against it Majority for the clause The remaining clauses of the bill were read and creel to. The Small Debts (Scotland) Bill was read a thiru time and passed. DRAMATIC PERFORMANCES BILL, On the further consideration of the report on this bill, Mr. Alderman WOOD moved an amendment, to the efict. the pro visions of the bin should not extend to the city of London. . _ . . After a short conversation, the cinrse was agreed to, .with an un derstandiag that the princilik would be discussed in a future 'stage of the bill. . _ _ The report was then agreed to, and the bill was ordered tc'be read a third time on Monday. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and at a Quarter past Two the house adjourned until Monday. • LONDON GAZETTE.-FrtwAy, JULY 19. INSOINENT. July 18—Joseph Ivon Winstanley, hosier, _ _ _ Samuel Stockton, Long-yaiii,ll7ni) ; 3JUnduit-street, wine-cooper. Frederick Pout, Surrey-street, Stra4d, attorney-at-law. Michael Martin, Newbury, Berkshite, currier. Richard Hillier, Newport, Monmovihshire, provision-merchant. Robert Nokes Williams, Bristol, 01:m1-merchant. Samuel Street, Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire, grocer. James Mutable (and not:Mutable, as before advertised,) Bristol. free-stone merchant. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. - - -•-• --„ J. Lomax, W. Wilson, and W. Theakstone, Liverpool, ship-smiths ; as far as regards W. Theakstone.—J. I. Moreton and S. B. Hutchins, Richmond- place, East-street, Walworth, butchers.—J. Kay arid D. Evans, Tring Mill, Herts, silk-throwsters.—W. H. Mabbs and T. Burr, Chatham, Kent, tallow-chandlers.—J. Tulloch and L. Tulloch, Poole, wine-merchants.—J. Smith and W. R 110CIC3, Birstal, Yorkshire, curriers.—R. Turner and J. C. Howson, Grantham, Lincolnshire, chemists.—.T. Barker and J. Mullev, Plough Brewery, Hornerton, brewers.—E. B. Chapman and S. C. Hardy, Charlotte-street, Fitzroy square, milliners.—T. D. Burrow and R. Burrow, Settle, Yorkshire, surgeons.—A. Everitt and G. H. Motteram, Birmingham, brass wire manufacturers.—J. B. Morris and T. Morris, Walnut-tree-walk, Lambeth, rule-makers.—D. Law and J. Muddell, Bow-lane, Cheap side, Scotch-factors.—G. Garrett and H. Meymott, Ludlow, Salop. surgeons.—J. Bell and T. Zachary, Oxford-street, chemists.—D. Mil ler and J. C. Searle, Bristol, chemists.—W. Lt'atham, E. Tew, J. Truman, and C. Jackson, Wakefield, Yorkshire, bankers ; as far as regards J. Trueman.—R. Gardner, W. Atkinson, J. Cumming, T. C. Hincksnaan, R. Outram, and M. W. Booty, London. DIVIDENDS, . Aug. 9, J. Cuthbertson, Borough-road, linen-draper.—Aug. 12, 1. M. Pontin, Turninill-street, Cow-cross, wire-weaver.—Aug. 23, R. Brown, Mattishall, Norfolk, shopkeeper.—Aug. 10, E. Robinson. Wakefield, Yorkshire, hosier.—Aug. 12, J. Foxall, Brighton. hotel keeper.—Aug. 9, W. Mascord, Oxford, grocer.—Aug. 17, AL Phillips, Plymouth, saddler.—Aug. 10, W. Kaye, Chorlton-row, near , 'Man chester, joiner. CERTIFICATES, Auousi 9. F. Holt, Liverpool, charcoal-manufacturer.—J. E. Watson, Buck lersbury, me..bwit.—J. Ellis, Princes-street, Hanover-!quare, tai lor.—W. Redgrave, Grosvenor-street West, Pimlico, wile-worker.-- G. C. Hall, Alfreton, Derbyshire, money-scrivener.—G. N. Bates, Birmingham, caster of metals.—J. F. Bowgin, W. P. Bowgin, and T. F. Bowgin, Bristol, plumbers.—G. Bradley, Stockpott, Chethire, innkeeper.—R. Garbett, Shiffnal, Salop, grocer. THEATRE-ROYAL, LIVERPOOL. MR. COOPER'S LAST NIGHT BUT FOUR. Mrs. NISBETT, (late Miss Mordannt,) of. the Theatre- Royal, Drury-lane, is engaged for a Fortnight, and will make her second appearance here this present Tuesday. Mr. BARTLEY, of the Theatre-Royal, Covent-garden, is also engaged for the same period, and will make.his second ap pearance here these Ten Years, on the sani• MIHIS present TUESDAY, July 23, 1.-" sit, will be performed _I the Comedv of THE PROVOKED H BAND. Lord Townly, Mr. Cooper; Sir F ncis- Wronghead, Mr. Bartley ; Count Bass Browne. Lady Townly, A Nisbett. After which, , arce called THE W r P PING DAY. Sir Adam Contest, Mr. Ba • ; Lady Contest, Mrs. Nisbett. To conclude wise NeW l• - 'arce called THE CLUTTER BUCK or, the RAIL-ROAD of LOVE. Twist, servant to Capt. Dashall, Mr. Browne, Mr. Tobias Clutterbuck, Ship Chandler, of Liverpool, Mr. Bartley; Young Clutterbuck, his Son, Mr. Baker. Kitty, Mrs. Clarke. TO -MORROW, the Comedy of the BELLE'S STRATAGEM. Doricourt, Mr. Cooper; 'Hardy, Mr. Bartley; Flutter, Mr. Browne; Letitia Hardy, Mrs. Nisbett. To' conclude with a New Farce, never acted here, as performed last season at the Theatre-Roval, Drury-lane, called MY WIFE ; WHAT WIFE ? Capt.. Hector Tempest, R.N., Mr. Bartlev ; Capt. Hector Tempest, Light Drags., Mr. Cooper; Simon Pyni, Mr. Browne. _ On THURSDAY, Shakspeare's Historical Play of KING HENRY IV. Sir John Falstaff, Mr. Bartley ; Prince of \Vales, Mr. Cooper; Hotspur,• Mr. Vandenhoff; Pons, Mr. Browne. After which the New Drama of NELL GWYNNE. King Charles Mr. Vandenhoff; Joe Haynes, Mr. Browne ; Nell Gwynne, (first time,) Mrs. Nisbett. Fifth Appearance of Mr. BARTLEY, of the Theatre-Royal, Co vent-garden, and Mrs. NISBETT, (late Miss Mordaunt,) of the Theatre-Royal, Drury-lane. For the BENEFIT of Mr. COOPER, And the last night but one of his en agement. lAN FRIDAY EVENING next, the 2 . inst.,will be re vived Shakspeare's Play, (not actp . ere for eight years,) called HENRY V SI.. Henry. Mr. Cooper I Gar. , ner..Mr. Bartley. Cardinal Wolsev, Mr. Vanden. 1 1- Lord Sands, Mr. Browne. Queen Catherin • iss Huddart. Anna Boleyn Mrs. Nisbett, ,After which the Farce of SPRING AND AUTUMN. OR THE BRIDE AT FIFTY And other Entertainments. TO CORRESPONDENTS. An excessive pressure of Parliamentary matter entirely pre vents us from paying that attention to the claims of our numerous correspondents, which we had intended, and which they well merit. Tbr titnrpoot 4,tanVarD. TUESDAY MORNING, JULY 23, 1833. Nothing has transpired since our last, worth much no tice relative to foreign affairs generally, or those of Por tugal in particular. It was, indeed, rumoured that Spain had determined to interfere between the contend ing parties, and it is natural she should do so, for if PE DRO should succeed in planting his rev ol ut ionary 'banners on the walls of Lisbon, an insurrection in Spain is al most inevitable. We have not, however, been able to trace the rumour to any authentic source. Russia still retains her hold upon Constantinople; and the unhappy Sultan, deserted, if not betrayed by his most ancient allies, is now entirely at the mercy of the Autocrat. We calculate, that at the demise of his Highness, the whole of European Turkey will be an nexed to the Russian Empire. England might have prevented this, but now she cannot afford to be either chivalrous or honest. As to France, she must keep within her own frontier during the citizenship of LOUIS PHILIPPE. She has an admiral at the Porte whom the Russians treat with the greatest contempt—as he de serves. The following is from our Plymouth correspondent:-- Plymouth, 19th July, 1833• By the schooner Champion, Perrirnan, Master, in eight days, from Oporto roads, we lethel, through the information of a pas senger, the details of the recent attacks on Oporto. It appears that Don Miguel, by offers of gratuity, plunder, &c., to induce his troops to attack the city before the 9th inst., the anniversary of Pedro's landing, had accomplished his wishes,-as, on the sth inst., the Miguelite forces were put in motion on all points, in tending to gain the various positions by surprise. A smart skirmish took place near the Foz, in the attempt to get posses sion of a redoubt, in which many of the Miguelites having been killed and wounded, the Pedroites were successful, having also sustained a loss of several men killed and wounded. The main body of the Miguelite troops did not come forward at this point, seeing the failure of the first, attempt to carry the redoubt. The whole of Pedro's forces were under arms in fifteen minutes from the first sound of the bugles, and stationed along the roads, &c. ready to act, the Miguelite batteries on the south side, at the same moment opening a fire of ball and grenades and throw ing shells towards the positions and into the roads where the Pedroites were stationed. During the time of this attack near the Foz, Pedro's line of defence at Banfine, being the other extremity, was attacked by upwards of 3000 men. Col. Duver gier, an old and brave officer, commandant of the French bri gade, instantly pushed forward with 250 of his comrades and a considerable party of the Portuguese (Oporto) volunteers, and kept the Miguelites in check. By this time General Saldanhe and his aides-du-camp. had reached the top of a battery in the rear of the combatants, and observing the handful of French troops hard pressed, their colonel wounded, (arm since ampu tated,) the general moved forward, took the lead, gave the word of command, and headed a general charge on the money. The Miguelites were routed with considerable slaughter : the loss of the Pedroites in this brilliant affair not bei ug less than eighty i killed and wounded. Gen. Saldanh a, who s,it appears, a man universally respected, was promoted on the same day to the rank of lieutenant-general, for his bravery on the field of battle. Since the sth, Miguel's troops have been constantly on the ore, thr e at e ning another genera l attack : this necessarily I keeps the Pedroites on the alert. On the Bth and 9th the Mi guelites were filling up their trenches, and burning their stock ades near to the Foz, supposed for the purpose of passing over his artillery and cavalry. These mowincrits naturally intimi date the citizens, as they all expect to be massacred if Miienel's party gain possession. On the other hand, there appears to be but one feeling amongst the soldiers, which is, that to obtain possession and keep it is impossible, since if even they were by numbers to 'overpower Pedro's force, so as to gain possession of any one point, the liliguelites could be dispersed in an hour, as every house would be made a battery of defence and offence. On Tuesday, the 9th inst., the bells were rung ; end fireworks let off, in honour of the victory of Napier over Miguel's fleet. Pedro's flag waved over that of Miguel'a ail round the lines. Don Pedro has established a laboratory at Op; to, in which is now made 68 cwt. of gunpowder per month, and 90,C00 car tridges are filled per week. nem are prepared all his itott fires, fuzes, &c. &c., se that a very considerable saving inex pense is effected. sp c 0 TD 'ED TION Standard Office, Three o'clock. CORN EXCHANGE. TUESDAY, I'WO O'CLOCK There was a good attendant'•e of tosva aria country' dealers at our market, and a brisk business was done with them and speculators Tn Wheats, at lull prices f,ir Canada, and at an advance of' ld: to 21. in Irish. Red Canada brought Ss. 3d. in quantity ; white ditto 9s. 3d. to 9s. Gd. in retail, and. a very fine lot was held at lOS. 'lrish red.brought 7s. to Ss. as in quality. Extensive sales of -fine Oa's w,,re made to speculators, and dealers, at 2s. thlfie 3s. ; also in Oatmeal and hist.' Flour, at an advance of Is. oti eadh; and higher prioes were asked for most. articles in the trade. Tile samples of bonded Flour and Wheat are mostly withdrawn. EARLY HARVEST.—Mr. Gilbert, of Bremnre Cottage, has cut down a large field of oats sown last October, the produce of which he sold at this day's market, at 13s. per barrel.—Drogheda Journal, 20th July. COTTON MARKET. ME,SDA Y, Two O'CLocK. The demand for Cotton continu:s very extensive, chiefly in speculation, and the sales of the day may pro bably amount to from 8,000 to 10,000 bags, at id. per lb.: advance upon yesterday. Arrived, 2 Orleans, 1 New York, and 1 Savannah.. SHIPPING INTEL LIGE NCI... TUESDAY, 23d July.-Noon, Wind W.N. W.—Show er s, RRIVED. William Brown, Taylor, and William Shand, Norton. from New Orleans. Ganges, Quirk, from Savannah. Artemis, Sparks, from Montreal. Calmer, Patterson. from Stockholm. The outward bound remain. The Miramichi, Hutohilson, St. John's, N 8.. at Clyde. The Uurata, from Hull, for St. John's, N. 8., was spoken in lat. 45. 50., long. 28, by the Travis, from Mobile--all well. The Lucy, Christie, Valparaiso, at Lima, 7th March. TELEGRAPH OFFICE, 23n JULY. Wind at Holyhead, W., blowing fresh. Off, 1 ship, 1 brig. I snow. The letter bag of the packet ship On , ITTe Washington will leave Of f ice of the consignees at 4 p.m. to-morrow. The second reading of the Church Robbery Bill, after a debate which lasted three nights, was carried on Satur day morning, by a majority of one hundred and fifty seven to ninety-eight. The Duke of WELLINGTON, Lord HARROWBY, Lord WIIARNCLIFFE, and several of the Bi shops, strongly opposed as they are to many of the most important clauses of the bill, voted in the majority, in the confident hope that they will be enabled to prune and amend it in the committee. Of this interesting debate we have presented our read..., ers with a fuller report than is usually seen in a provincial paper. We have preserved all the more important facts and most forcible arguments which are to be found in the various speeches, in order that they may possess a sort of compendium of the reasons for assaulting the bulwarks of the church, virtually repealing the union between Eng land and Ireland, and paving the way for the utter extinc tion of Protestantism and civilization in that unfortunate part of his Majesty's dominions. - The venerable and truly patriotic Earl of ELDON, now in his 83d year, delivered his sentiments on this measure, on the last night of the debate, in an animated tone of mingled admonition and condemnation, traced the present evils to former concessions, and read the doom of his coun try in the prevailing disregard of moral and religious obligations. "He would ask," said the nobleearl, !‘ whe ther any man could look at what had been transacted during the last twelve months, and not be obliged to say that there had been a conspiracy going on against their lordships' house, the intent of which was to put an end to its functions. He had. been raised from a very hum ble station of life, and he would ask leave to tell them that the only way in which they could give an advantage to their opponents was by yielding to menaces and cla mour—the consequences would be dreadful if their lord• ships did not restore that house to the character it had three or four years ago—if they did not, they might de pend upon it that in a very short time there would not be an opportunity for any one to address their lordships in that house ! The bill," continued the venerable no bleman, " and he submitted it ,more particularly to the reverend bench—the bill, if allowed to pass in its present shape, would prevent.any one twenty years younger than himself, who should live to his age, from seeing a bishop upon the reverend bench in that house" ! _ With these sentiments, emanating from a good Chris tian, to whom this world now can have no charm, and who will shortly be in the presence of his GOD, We en-• tirely concur. It is with pain and reluctance that we place such a confession upon record. If by excluding the daylight from our past errors—if by concealing our na tional infirmities — if by glossing over the faults and fol lies of our public men, we could avert the impending ca lamities, or rouse the nation to a nobler and juster sense of its duties, most gladly would we be silent and - wait the result with undisturbed .resignation. But silence has been maintained too long. A fatal apathy has seized upon the spirit of the British people, the words of wisdom are despised, and the throne is surrounded by evil coun sellors, while demagogues and empirics, jacobins and in fidels, ride in the whirlwind and direct the storm of pub lic opinion. The conspiracy which Lord ELDON describes as having been in existence for twelve months against the House of Lords has been much longer in operation against all the other institutions of the country. For the last twelve months we admit it has been emphatically directed against the peers. With the reform bill came the tempest which shook the temple of coronets to its foundations. The machinations of the ministry, the madness of the people, and the insolence - of the rabble, left that noble assembly but a barren sceptre and the shadow of a shade of power. It was remorselessly stripped of its authority, its honour, its prerogatives, and its independence. Its voice was drowned amid the noise of infuriated levellers and incen-. diaries, and when overawed, it lost self-respect, yielded to fear, and signed its own degradation. Such was the House of Lords when it was compelled to acquiesce, silently, - and from fear, in all the spoliation clauses of the reform bill.. But that trial being over, another trial, of a more tremendous kind, now awaits it. A large majority of its members are unequivocally and avowedly opposed to the church bill ; and yet the bill has been read a second time It remains to be seen how far their lordships will apply the knife in. the committee. A few hours will show whether they can, for a second time, and if for a second time, certainly for the last time, be intimidated into submission and bullied into obedience. If they sacrifice. the church, they, from that hour, seal their own fate. The pen that. attaches the royal signs- - ture to the b ill w ilt speedily be required to write the number If they submit to that whi c h t h e i r consciences —if they sanction a me asure w hi c h of c n d dea3n•is. condemn—if their hearts the y deprecate—then, alas f or them they their o will commit a political suicide, and stand self-abased is the eyes of the whole world. In a matter of this serious import we only address ourselves to the religious portion of the community—to those who revere the protestant. institutions of the country —and who are desit ous that the bible shall not he burnt by the pagan priesthood, and for ever remain a sealed book to the whole population. of Ireland. If we fail in convitleihr , this class of Our readers that such is the object of the conspiracy to which Lord ELDON alluded, then shall we give up our cause in despair. But we entertain no such fears. The mildew- of popery has not vet scathed the whole harvest of British civilizaticn, nor has the taint of liberalism corrupted the entire heart of the nation. It has spread wide—it has sunk deep—it has found its way to the footsteps of the throne—it has been poured into the ears of the King's servants--it has made the commons drunk, and has bewildered the crazy ,;)Vhigs, their new made lords, and their long retinue ofiataeaters, scrubs, and dependents. But still the leaven has not leavened the v, hele mass; there. yet remains, thank Heaven, an unco rrupted remnant. To this class Ue. particularly ad dress ourselves. . . In ate first place, to them v.•e sad•, is it not obvious that the destruction and utter exti•icticn. of the protestant church in Ireland is the object of the ccnf•piracy—not cf. this measure ouly—but of every measure which has been . passed for what is termed•the benefit of Ireland within the last few years ? Whc,t). the disabilities 'affecting Rowan Catholics were remote were we not told that that would be a healing meatute Did not the Catholics assure us . -.