The Sun. — London, England, 1806-07-22 00:00:00

I'MPEIWiL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PiEERS. MONDAY, JUI.'Y 21. The Royal Assent was given,' by Comthissibn, to the Sugar Bill, the Silk Bounty Bill, the Irish Re venues the American. Intercourse Bill, the Irish Rliiitia Service Bill, the Volunteer. Officers' Rank Bill, the Slaye Ship Restrietion Bill, the Chancery Clerks 818, the Masts Bill, the Raisins Bill, the London Quay Bill, the Port of London Bill, the 1301 Rock Light-house Bill, the. insolvent Debtors' Bill, and several other Public and Private Bills, to the amount of ninety-eight. 'T,'le.Commissieners were the 'LORD CHANCEL ;.,on, Lord WALSINgHAM- and Lord -ELDON. • The further bearing of the Appeal `` ChatnleY v. Lord, Dunsarey and• Others," was postponed till Next Sessibn. • In the• Appeal ." Rennie v. Tod and other," the LORD CHANCELLOR moved to reverse the De:ree .of the Court of Session ; which Motion was sUpported by Lord ELDoN, and agreed td. Sir Wm. Scott, Mr.. Holford, and,several other Members of the House of Commons, brought ,up the Bankrupt Laws Bill, -and some other Bills, the Amendments mak.in which by the Lords had been agreed to by *the commons.' • • The Consolidated Funtt Bill, the Royal'Family Annuities Bill, the Irish Postage Bill, the Lottery Bill, the Malt Excise Bill, the London Additional 'Force Repeal Bill ) , Earl Nelson's Annuity' Bill,i•and Lord Rodney's Annuity Bill, were read a t4ird.time, and passed. MILITIA. Oil the third reading of the Militia Office'rs' Pay: WI; • The Earl of RAD:VaIi ,protested against 'it as a. Bill that. Offered an insult 'and *injury to the Militia, whilst it was at the same time a breach of faith•to wards that. valhable body of men, it having been clearly Oclared,by Parliament that the pay of the :Militia Officers should be equal to that of the Officers of the Line. He lamented that every Party 'who' 'came into power seemed inclined to give a blow to 'the Militia. The engagements that had been enter-, ed'into' with the Militia had now nearly all been broken; the men, had, been taketroht of the Regi ments to serve in the Line 5 Officers had been ap pointed wichout, the requisite landed qualifications ;. :low the pay.of the Otlicers was to be rendered less than that of the Line, and . he supposed their rank would next b,t2f affeCted. He wished to sneak against this measure in the strongest terms his liberty of spe,:ch'in Parliament would allow ; and viewing it in the light he did, he felt it. his duty to move,. that 'the Bill be read a ‘ second titve this day twee . . months, • . 77ce .garl of TVESTMQ RI, A ND also thought the Bill a breach of faith towards, the Militia,' and was at i> loss to conceive 'on what grounds it could be stip ported. On a former occasion, when discussing any of the military measures of his Majesty's Ministers, it had .Ipc.!en said, do not take a measure singly, but . . - loo!,: at tile whole plan, and with this licence he would take' the liberty'of adverting - to a Bill, lb.. - re gulating the rank of. Volunteer Officers, which, 'either thrJugh his mistake, or the mistake of others, had passed :through the House without his havirlg an opportunity of tn.thing any remark on it—a Bill Nviiich ho conceived calculated to give offence to the - Vonutteers, without any, benefit being likely to be thrived from it. . I,orfl G4E, NVILLE declared Illmself a 'warn) . friend. tit‘the Militia, which he consisiered a Very valaabie part of our military fOrce, net only as at fording a force for the defence of the Country in the hour of hanger, but also as giving an opportunity to Gentlemen of landed property, not &using to enter 'into the regular Military protession of evincing their Zeal and spirit, and of obtaining that degree' of mi litary know/edge which.would render, them essen tially useful in a crisis of public danger. There was 'riot the slightest intention, oil - the paq of ,His Ma jesty's Ministers, to give a blow or offer any insult to the Militia; nor could be conceive how, this Bill could be so construed. He denied that there was any breach of faith ; all that had formerly been declared by Parliament was; that the Officers of the Militia Should receive the same paY as Officers of the Line, that is to say, the pay which the latter then received ; Taut it never could he contended, that from thence a principle was to arise, that the'pay of the Officers of the Line was never to be augmented without at the same time augmenting, to an'equal amount, the pay cf the Odicers of the Militia. •lt should be recol leaed, that thp Officers. of the Line "made tha mili tary profession the business of their lives, and were liaLle to many duties of service. to which• Militia Officers, were Dot ; the latter, besides; might pursue other avocations, at the same time continuing the exercise of their duties us Military Officers. He could .pit, therefore, ~conceive in what way the Bill could operate as a hardship UpOtethe latter. • 'Lora ELMON objecte,d that the Bill was incon sistt•nt itself, inasamuch a 4 it Merely professed in its title to_he a Bill frle . ol,ilating the pay of Mi- Jitia Officers in 4ngland alo . ,&otlapil, whilst in the hody of the'Bilthere were enaaments applying to the Yeomanryand Volunteers of Ireland. The .4 , 4r1 AWIR4 observed, that a trifling Amendment would . obviate the inconsistency of Which the Noble and Lehrtied LOrdCeniplained: 'lie professed•hiraself a warm friend to the Militia, and, coinciding completely with the arguments urged by his N 0615, Friend (Lord G l rcnviliej, he could not conceive in'wleat way the Bill could be Considered, as offethig any insult ,to that valuable part , of 'our Military He thought the lamentation of the _Noble Earl (West:not - land), that he had missed an . ::OpOrtunity of debating the Bill for . replacing the `r3til; of the Volunteer Officers, was nneediess, as every part of of Ministers, tts/embodied to t he diflZ:rot lircenht - till to that - House . , had teen Most alkiy by Noble Lords on the other Side, who had suircely omitted ,any opportu- D iev attacl:ing them. :With ri..,!: , ;pe6t to . that Bill, however, ht., w wild observe., that obi only no offence was intended.to the yciunteets, but- he was colivinced that no offenco couh.f tal.;ed by the Volunteer as they 'oust th:L, 1 eau want of expe ri...:rice in aetihit Setvice;• t Cie not competent to take the Fietd Oftteers of the Line, and of hlr,t,,t; , ' boctit-2s of troops, the evont oi , their being a.:.tunhy caVrt:Ci 011( for the el'etorice of the Country. • Earl. Z ILIA ::M likewLse titfendM the ILIA, on grOunds similar to those urged - by Lord Grenv:lle and the Earl of Moira. The Earl 'of RADNOR repeated his former disap probation of the The Earl of H4R,DIVICKE objeaed to the Bill; on the ground of the increase of p4y not being ex tended to Captains in the Militia,' many Of whom, he said,' from having ~been appointed without the qualification previously required, stood as much in need of an increase as any of the others - to whom it had been extended. Earl SPENCER thought if the not extending the increase to. Captains bad the effect of bringing back the Militia, in that respea, to 'its former principle, that 'of only having Captains possessed of the landed qualification-before required, it would produce a good of e&.--He defended. the Bill on the grounds before urged ;, and as to the rank of Volunteer Officers, he, as a Volubteer Field-Officer himself, considered that Bill as a boon, and be had no doubt it would be ge nerally considered by Volunteer Officers as a favour, as, with all that zeal and spirit which they would doubtless evince in the hour of danger, they could not, from want'of experience, feel themselves ade quate o the command of large bodies of Troops. .The Dake' of RUTLA ND expressed his entire disapprobation of the Bill, which . 116 conceived to be subversive of the constitution of the Militia. • The LORD CHANCELLOR contended.that the former declaration' of the 'Legislature", that the pay of the _Militia Officers Would be the same as that of the Line, could 'only apply to the then pay of the Regii lar Army, and not to any filture augmentation.— Those Noble Lords who conceived that this aug mentation ought to , be extended equally to the Mi litia might use that as an argument against the Bill, but it never could' be maintained .that the not ex . tending to that force.an increase of pay, granted under special circumstances to the Regular Army, was sub-. ' versive of the Constitution of the Militia. Lord ELDON said a few words in explanation. • Earl CAMDFN opposed the Bill. He thought the measures brought forward by Ministers were not ex aaly in unison with their professions of regard for the Militia and Volunteers. The House - then divided on the questiod that the word•" now" stand part of the Motion for reading the third time.—COntents 13 5 non-contents 8 ; , majority On our re-admission we found The Earl f WESTMORLAND • on his legs, speaking on the question for reading the Same Bill a third time. His Lordship eqressed , his disapproba tion generally of the measures'•which. had been brought forward by Ministers„ .and considered his own honour and characaer, as well as that of those with whom he recently a6ted, involved in his oppo sition to them. The Bill was then read a third time and passed. PUBLIC\HARI3OURS. On -dip rnt . into a Committee on _n the question ror goint ; the Public Harbours'Bill, .The E;211 of LIMERICK complained that a Bill of this' importance had been brought forward at so' late a period of the Session. It appeared to him likely to he,rnisChievous in its operation, as intended to prevent persons having property on the banks of navigable rivers, as .far as the tide flowed, from making the least improvement'on their estates with out giving notice to the Secretary of the Admiralty. The peitalty for not giving this notice was 2001. and many persons might thus be entrapped without being at all aware of t:c natUre of the law. He thought it would in many eases be uSeless as to the interests of the palic,"and instanced the river Shannon, in ire w,nere.tne tide flowed a mile higher than ves sels of any burden'could come up, yet' this Bill would equally operate in that 'part of the river where it could hot be-of the least use. Lord G IiENFiLLE 'sold, the Bill had, been brought for.ward as soon as the grievance to which it applied 'was known; and it was a measure which he contended was highly necessary in order to pre serve our public harbours and navigable rivers froth obstructions. It was merely required of the person making any embankment or other work, in the.si tuations mentioned,' to send.notice to the Secretary of the Admiralty, which could be but a very trivial hardship. Many other rivers might be in the situa tion of the. Shannon, where the tide flowed higher than vessels of any burden could ❑avigate, but it was, notwithstanding, important to prevent obstru&ions in those parts of such rivers, in order to prevent the navio - able parts of those rivers from being ultimately injured. The Earl of LIMERICK said a few words in sup port' of hiS former objections. • The B►ll then passed through the Committee, and was reported. • The. Scots Forfeited Estates Bill was read a se cond time, passed through the Committee, and was reported. The Customs Regulation Bill, the Oak Bark Bill, and the other Bills on the Table, were ordered for committal, passed through Committees, and were reported. • Adjourned till to-morrow (this'day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, JULY 21 . The Douse Was won:toned; in the usual form, to the House of Peet.i. . _ _ • The SPE A KE4,..0n return, declared that the Royal Assent had been given, by Commission,to se veral Report of the Lords.] Njw Writs were ordered . to be made out for Mem bers to serve fOr Seaford, Sussex, in the room of Sir IL So4ivan, deceased; for Buckingham, in the rcioni of ViSCO;ylt Proby, who has accepted the Stewardship of the Chiltern . Hundreds ; and for En niskilling, in the room of John King, Esq. who has accepted of , the Stewardship of the Hundred of DeSboroucrh. rtiie Lords ' Amendments to .the Philanthropid So ciety and l ßankrupt.Laws' Bills were taken into con sideration, and agreed ty. Thee. Report of the Committee on the . East India Accounts I.ra~s received, and the Resolutions read. Mr. PAULL chid not objet to any of them, but wished to Miirk this circumstance', that there wits a dcfailcation in t:he revenue ref Oude alone to the amount of 450,0001. and other defalcations, in all about three Millions sterling. Lord isloapk.Tn said, that the proper time to con sider that point would be when the accounts Caine CV Mr. PAULL t;aicl a few words in explanatioh, after which the Resolutions were og,reed MP E A C tiME NT. .N.7ROIVAL rose, and adverted to the notice which he had given some - tulle ago,' of,his intention to'submit a Motion to the House relative to the praaice of thanking Managers of Impeachments before the Lords had given their decision. The ob-. jest of his rising at present was to remove the im pression, if any such-existed, of •his having aban cloned that intention. He had by no means abandoned it ; but from considerations, of which the House, he hoped, would perCeive. the propriety, he had dropped any design of bringing tbrward.the subje& this Session : he wished - that every feeling conneaed with any particular Inipeachmene should have no place in the consideration ; and was rather afraid that if he had brought it forward this ,Ses sion, even the shortness of the time that must have intervened between that and the lace Impeachment might have prevented the matter from being dis cussed with that impartiality which was desirable. .He now, therefore, gave notice, that it was his inten tion to bring the subjea before the House in- the next Session. CROWN ESTATES IN WESTMINSTER. Mr. SHERIDAN expressed his hope that the, House would reeollea, that, when he had given no tice to•make a Motion relative to the Crown Estates in Westminster, with a view to the improvement Of the Capital, that Motion was only, conditional, as he was then aware that others, whose judgment he was disposed to rely on, Might prefer another, mode for accomplishing his object. He had now the sa tisfaelion to state, that his Colleagues in Office, especially the Noble Baron at'the Head of the Trea sury, and his Right Honourable Friend (Mr, Fox); who had been prevented by indispBsitiOn from at tending here for some time, 'were anxious to for ward the purpose which he had in view 5- and they having chose another mode, .which he himself thought preferable, he begged leave to wave his Motion. A Person from the Excise Office presented an Account 'of the Prosecutions for Violations 'of the Malt ALA for the last ten years.--Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. Johnstone, from the Office-of Chief Secre tary for /Ireland; prelented an Account of Irish Linen, of a certain breadth, exported to the West Indies within a given time. to lie on the Table. A Person from the West India Dock Company presented a Statement of the Progress of the Works in the Isle of Dogs, pursuant to Aat. of Parliarnent.--:- Ohlered to lie on the Table. . BARRACK ABUSES. Mr. ROBSON roSe, pursuant to notice, to move for some Papers relative to . the Barracks: Since Ministers had not chosen to attend in their , places at the discussion upon the East India Accounts, during is , hich it had been asserted by persons who were competent to judge, that the Company was almost in a state Of insolvency, he was not surprised that they were not prdsent on this occasion. The snbje&, however, to v:hich he was about to call the attention, of 'the House, was one of the greatest pdblic importance. Some Papers on this subject bad been presented on 'Friday last not on his Mo tion, but on' that of the Secretary at Tar; but as seemed to wish to shuffle off thiS busi ness, by not attending to-day, he would speak freely of them. The plan which he proposed fir ascer taining the exalt state of the Barrack Expenditure was plain and simple ' • and if his Motion had been agreed to', it would have been the means of saving SOCIIC hundred thousand pounds of the publiemo ney. Ministers, however, had thought proper to refiase some of theSe when proposed by him ; but afterwards, finding that the Public must come -to the_ knowledge of these abuses one way or another, they had come to the House and made similar Motions themselves, MI he was told_ that he ought to have divided the House.— Ile had,' however, made three motions, which, if granted, would have formed a key.to the state of the Barracks, and the simple Returns of the office would itself be a check against the embezzlement of the public money. A circumstance had occurred on Friday which had occasioned him some embarrass ment. He told Ministers he wanted to see the Re port of the Commissioners of, Military , Inquiry. Although generally pretty early in his attendance at the House, he had pot come dawn that day till twenty minutes past ;four o'clock, when he found that the Report had been presented, and ordered to be printed: He met the Clerk with it in his hand, and followed it up stairs, in the .hopes that he might be permitted to iodic at ; it, for five minutes. But understanding the Secretary at War meant to move for some Papers relatiVe tO the Barracks, he imine diately came down to the House, thinking it of more importance to hear those motions than to look at the Report. He then begged 'leave to have the Report for a felt , minutes, but finding it contrary to the rules of the House, he had given way. For want of the infbrmation, however, which he might have procured from the Report ; his plan could not be so well arranged as. he could have wished. But he pledged himself to the House as .a Member of Par iiatnent, that if the produce of the 'Canteens and :Manure should be duly applied, it would'defray the expence of all the temporary, Barracks. He would call upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Secretary at War; who had just come in, to say why hiS Motion had been refused,. The Secretary at War, however, wishing, he supposed, afterwards to give him the object of his Motion, had moved for an Account of the rents of the Canteens; and the produce of the Manure. The Paper had been pre sented; but it did not state any time. Whether the account was from 1793 or the days ofNoah, there was no means of ascertaining upon the face of it. It was, besides, a general account ; but he wanted the particulars and some specified time. He wanted the produce in each particularßarrack, according-to the weekly accounts . as sent to the Barrack-Office: This was no account at all. He would make his Motion again. iThe Speaker , asked whether this was the same Motion he had made before ? and be ing answered in the affirmative, he said, the Motion having been once negatived, one_ exactly the same in substance could not be received .during that Session. Mr. Robson then' begged with, subcniSsion to propose another Motion, 'and the Speaker having read it, asiied him to state , in what the difference consisted between that and the Motion winch lied been no- Robscin then; in Continuation, pro ceeded to state, that the Secretary at War hadl:otne down on Friday last, and 1401'4 . for a Parer on this gubjeß, without giving any previaas notice. He had therefore been taken by surpriv—bat his ac count was only in gross. He wanted the particu lars. Ministers said they wanted inquiry—this was his objeEt too, and yet when lie did any thing ~vith that view he was thwarted, aad asked - why he should take these things upon him ? If the Secretary at War had communicated his Motion to him he would have .corrected it,. but as it was it would an swer no purpose, as there was no particular time mentioned. : [The SECRETARY at WAR said across the Table, that there was]—He would read the Votes, and from . these it would appear there was not.—(Hetehe read the Votes.) The SPEAKER again. requested the Honourable Gentleman to state ix what respect his Motion dif fered from the former. Mr. ROBSON stated, that there was a difference\ of a material word. Mr. CALCRAFT said, that after what had fallen from the Chair,, if the Motion was substantially the same, they were debating about nothing, because, however willing his Noble Friend (Lord H. Petty) was to support the Motion, it 'could not be granted in consistency with the Orders of the House. Mr. WHITBREAD also said, that the Honourable Gentleman did not, pay the proper resped to the Chair and to the. House, in . not precisely stating the difference, if there was any. ' _ Mr. T. JoNgs suggested that the . word " perma nent," which was in this but not in the former Mo tion, might make a material difference. Mr. ROBSON then said, that the former Motion only applied to ti`nporary - BarraCks, whereas the present applkdrto the permanent Barracks also. Mr: WintBREAP and Mr.' CALCBAFT, as they fo\ind there , was a real difference, withdrew Their objeEtions. The : Motion was then , read, and with the above mentioned difference, was the same as that made by Mr. Robson, for an Account of Dung, Straw, 84tcA:c. : and inserted in our Paper of the t7tli. The -SECRETARY at IVAR said, that no Oh jeEtion had been made to the Hon. Gentleman's ,Motion. With xegard to the Paper which he had presented on Friday, it had been put into. his hands by the Barrack Master General as a contradiEtion Of - the statement Made by the ,Honourable Gentle man, that no Account had been given of the pro duce nf the 'Barrack- Manure. The, Account dl4 specify a certain number of years, and the particular . Barracks and sums', so that the Honourable Gentie. man was mistaken on that . point. With respe& to 'the present Motion, he would not abject to it as the others had been agreed to, Bqt at. the, same time the produClion of these Papers would be attended with considerable expence and inconvenience, as a number of additional Clerks must be employed on purpose. Now, whether the House would think it worth while t0 .. g0 on with this business might be a question, as the Hon. Gentleman seemed to be doubtful whether he would pursue, it. He talked • about throwing up the affair, and was pnw and then moving tiir more Papers, so that he' would have considerable doubts whether the Hon. Gentleman meant to' follow it up unless he expressly said so. Had not his Noble Friend permitted the Other Mo tions to pass without objection, he would not have been very willing to accede to this Motion, as the mat ter was at present before another tribunal. He thought the Hon. Gentleman's Plan was worse than the Commission Which had been 'already appointed, and of whose delay and unfitness the Hob. Gentlethan had complained--[Here Mr. Robson made a sign of dissent.] The Hon. Gentleman did not seem inclined to admit that he had made such complaints, but he certainly had said something that appeared, very like a charge of this sort. He had, however, met with no : impediment froth that side of the House. The Hon. Gentleman had said that all wished'for Inquiry—he, however, dui not wish for Inquiry in this way, because he conCeived it would answer no good purpose.. But though he _thought that the Military Commission was more lit to in vestigate the abuses, he hoped that none of the Ministers could, on that account, be justly liable to the imputation of attempting to screen abuses. Mr. PAULL said, that he was surprised to hear the Honourable 'Gentleman say that Ministers had resisted his Motion on a former occasion. They had not done 'so, for only two Gentlemen on the other side had - said no, and the Hon. Gentleman did not think fit to di% ide the House. Mr. BOBSO.N. stated nothing but what he be lieved; on good grounds, to be true, and the Report 'would pear him out. The Report would bear him out in what .he had said. , As to the expence, the Papers conSiStedonly of two sheets mid a half, and might be made out in two hours and a half. As to ,the charge of insincerity, and doubt whether he should praSectite this business, he would ask the .Noble Lord opposite (Petty), whether he did not say that he was ready .to proceed immediately with the Inquiry ?—There was a refinement in pene:ra tiorf in this busines, and nothing would give him greater pleasure than to have the matter before an honest Jury. But then he had been desirous to wait for the.Reliort of the Commission. He would describe what the Report was :—.lt gave a history .of the Barrack I;stablishment, with the Costs at tending them, and then proceeded M. the examina tion of the Barrack Accounts, and there found out General Delaney with his one per cent. a thing that was notorious at all the public Offices before. He did not wish to speak disrespeatially of any person, but public Men were in situations where they must submit to be animadverted upon. They had begun at the wrong end,: What was the use of all this history—or what did it signify .What happened a century ago ?—The abUses were still going on, and what they ought to have done was, to have turned their attention to the present time. It they had done this, half a million might be saved to the Public, and a - Report of this sort would have been of use:. Was he then to wait .four or five years till the Commissioners made another Report ? He would warn the Chancellor of the Exchequer not to resist a bone fide inquiry. He would have to answer to him as a Member of Parliathent in a fu ture Ses4ion how 1,700,0001. of the public money had been lost. There were a great 'many abuses in the other Qffics, and to these he wunid tura his attention at, a future period. He had alway at heart the good of his Country : be haa heard much of the talents of the :pre - sent Ministr, ; but the best proof of their talents would be to save the talents of gold and silver, Government had professed a leso