The Sun. — London, England, 1840-05-22 00:00:00

tvroNG EDITION% SIGN FOR THE NEW ROY EXCHANGE. The follo w i ng is ',MI'. 'rite's explanation of the design Fleeted by' the Committee, and was recommended to the c, t of Common Council yesterday. EXTENT AND SITE. The total' length of thesbuildina is proposed to be 293 t i o eet 6 inche s , f rom th e co l um n s of the portico on the west the pilasters at the cast end; the width of the portico 89 feet 6 inches; the evrerne width at the east end, at the broad e st nar t, is 175 feet, and the width through centre, from north to south, is 144 feet. ft The building is placed in the centre between the south °n t of the Balk and a mean line of the i r regularities pre sented by th e h ouse s on the south side of C o rnhill ; 1 1 , east and west fronts arc at right angles to the centre and of course the angle formed by the intersection of the north and south fronts with the east and west fronts ' I the same ; by this means the building, though not rec tangular, is regular on the plan. ARRANGEMENT. b Gresham C o ll e ge occupies the north-west angle of the erthing on the principal story, and is entered f ro m the .. T he Royal-Exchange Assurance occupies the south 14It angle and the space over the west end of the colo r,- ,1 ~ 00 the one pair floor, End is entered front the south O. the loggia, under the portico. The London Assurance occupies the greatest part of the * Outfit front on the principal story, and is entered f r om the s ss ut h . Lloyd's; fills up the remainder of the east and north fronts ~f the piolcipal story, arid is entered in three places, viz. e r°l ° the east, from the north-east corner, and fr om the e arth. „ There is a small additional staircase and entrance to the tt acipal Lecture Room of the Gresham College (which P r opose to use for the exit from the lectures only), and " Opens into the loggia under the portico. Ll"e Commercial Room proposed to be attached to a and which, in a letter from Mr. Barnes of the 26 th _ r ebruary, I ant requested so to manage as that it might be I PProp r i ace d f or offices, if not eventually required for the "hove purpose, has been accordingly placed by me on the P t ncipal story on the north side. If not required by Lloyd's, I should propose to convert this room into a double i sn ge of ufficcs, one lighted from the street and the other _Mtn the area of the Exchange, each office having a room rer in u third floor: the access to these rooms would be 9' a distinct staircase and entrance on the north, for which tt r ,distinet shop must be taken. The mean width of this l k-;o antercial Room is 39 feet, and its length 96 feet ; al titv*,, therefore for an 8-feet passage in tire middle, it /r mild provide for twelve sets of offices, each 16 feet by 15 ft. The s h o ps and offices are very material features of any design for this building, for under the 62d Section of the Act for providing a Site fur the Royal Exchange, the G resham Committee are bound to compensate any !Arty bolding a lease in .ny part of the Old Royal Exchange, a aless the owner or lessee is reinstated. As regards the "'lees, this would probably only be the value of the diffee etc° between the reserved rent and the actual rest, and not mattsr of much importance ; but unless the valuable !raciest and occupations round the Exchange are re- Instated, the question would become a very important one, because it would involve the goodwills of the parties. Tae mere question of reinstatement, however, is not the only "e, for it it is clear the revenue to be obtained from t he shop s , after the expiration of present leases , must f orma very important item in any income to be der iv e d fr om this building. In order to meet these require °lents, and still, I hone, in no way to injure the d esign, I have placed the shops or offices on a level with the street, round the north, south, and mist sides, tad inasmuch as I found that in the old Royal Exchange there were shops in three of the entrances, and as I could v ery conveniently arrange a few it, the east entrance of ,MY design, I have placed six there. Let the claims, emweve r , arise as they may, with this plan now under dis ea,sion there could be no difficulty in meeting them all, far tie! area cf all the shops and offices of all descriptions in the 7round-floor of the old Exchange amounted to 6 ,106 feet only, whereas in this Plan the shops and offices Provided; exclusive of the part appropriated to Lloyd's, to t he Gresham College, the London Assurance, and the R oyal Exchange Assurance, exceeds this quantity by 1 ,087 feet, the total being 9, 21 7 feet. The increased value of all this, and the exact nature of the accommoda ticm, will, however, be further explained under other heads ti this descriptive particular. ACCOMMODATION. GhESHAM COLLEGE.—lnconsidering this department of the building-, I was placed in considerable difficulty, trot Only from the total absence of instructions, but becau se 1 f ound, as well amongst the Committee (when I h ad the honour of attending them) as in society, very consi derable 'ifferences of opinion on the subject. After much reflection I have, however, arranged what I hope will be considered a complete establishment for roost purposes, and it is as follows : On the north side of the Exchange, about 45 feet from the west end, is an entrace with a small hall and staircase. In this hall a porter would be placed, who would prevent the admiision of improper persons. The entrance doorway is large, and over it is placed a Shield containing the arms of Sir Tho.nas Greslinni. This entrance and hall is also quite distinct, and, like all the other parts or distinct portions of this design, it is sepa rated by party-walls. On the first landing of the staircase is a porter's room, which would also serve for umbrellas, coats, or cloaks. O n the one-pair or principal floor is a Lecture Room tr theatre, of a horse-shoe form, the diameter being 46 fe et - 1 6 inches by 36 feet. To this is added a Library , or / e 7!r Lecture Room, 25 feet by 24 feet ; a Lecturer's or p lu ratian's Room, 19 feet by 15 feet 6 inches ; Apparatus `' .(lo r n, 16 feet 3 inches by 11 feet, with a water closet and washi ng room ; and two rooms over the Librarian's and Apparatus Rooms for some resident servant. The Theatre would seat 259 persons on the filor, and 200 more might be conveniently seated in the gallery. It is probable, however, that for many lectures of continuous eeurses this might be too much, but for some it might be too littl e . I have theref ore p laced the Librar y at the uaek of the Theatre, by which, in the latter case, the accommodation might he increased, or in the former it might he sufficient in itself for such purposes. The result, therefore is this, that for an auditory of 40 o r so persons, the Library would be sufficient ; beyond that number and up to 450 the Theatre would be t he proper place : if a larger number were expected, the Partition dividing the Library from the Theatre might be r emoved (as is shown in the plan) by sliding it into the w all, when by removing the lecture tab le a little further O' t ek, 50 persons more might be accommodated. Beyond is extent of 500 persons it is probably undesirable to Carry it further. If, however, I have erred altogether and have provided t OO much, it is easy to diminish it, or if it is determined to abandon this site for this purisose, the space so complete tad isol a t e d wou ld middy let by itself, or might be corn iiwd with the unappropriated offices in the north-west immediately under the Theatre. It remains to be added that I have also provided ample vault_room in the basement of this establishment. and a leeond staircase connected with the theatre, and only in tended to be used on a crowded occasion for the dismissal o f to large an audience as 400 or 500 persons, and fur a Private approach or retreat for the lecturer. Royer, EXCHANGE ASiURANCE establishment in the old building occupied apartments iu the Mezzanine, g ad tan the one-pair floor. The net area being 5,235 exclusive of passages, staircases, water-closets, kitchen, and rooms in the roof. have had many meetings with the Governor on the -4 "jeet, and at length I received, so late as the 4th inst., al i st of the rooms, of which I have attached a copy to description. The total area in this is 6,254 feet, but omitting the *to te-roms e and kitchen for the sake of comparison , the quantity is 5,894. My plan gives this so nearly, and t iie t dimensions of the rooms also correspond so generally w ith the requirements, that I need not occupy the time of the Committee with any further description ; but in nd ' ~ < on I have added what appears to me obviously neces sary, viz., strong-rooms and cellars in the basement. As the heights of the flora of this part of the building differ in some respects from the general section, I bog to add them hers, and they are as follows, viz. : The ground-floor is 2 feet 6 inches above the level of the flour of the Exchange, and 6 feet above the street ; under this is a lower ground-story, the height being ten feet, with vaultsunder. The ground-floor will be 13 feet high, the Mezzanine 10 feet, the one-pair floor 18 feet ; except where there are rooms over, when this will be 13 feet. LONDON ASSURANCE.-1 attach a copy of the instruc tions received from this Company to my letter of the 6th March, addressed to Mr. Barnes. The total quantity of space required is 5,553 feet, exclusive of waiting rooms, water-closets, &e. ; as some of the rooms seemed extrava gant in size, I have arranged them somewhat less, and the Company express themselves satisfied with my dimen sions, the total being 4,34 feet. LLoyo's.—With regard to this very important establish ment, I beg a reference to my letter to Mr. Barnes of the 6 th instant, to which I attached a copy of the new instruc tions forwarded by their architect. The total quantity of 'Pace occupied in the old Exchange by this Company ox elusive of staircases, was 7,914 feet. The space now re quired is 13,781 feet, exclusive of passages, and staircases, W ater -closets, urinals, &c., but this includes the Com mercial Room, which is 4.050 feet. The dimensions of the s everal apartments in my plan are very nearly consistent With tl.eir requirements, and the total result the same. The arran,ement of the rooms is best understood by a re ference to the plan of the one-pair floor, and I believe it to b e qu ite in accordance wit h t he wishes of the o c mmi: ttee. sIiOYS.—I propose that each shop shall have a cellar :claw, and, with very few exceptions, a Mezzanine over. 'nue average height o the shops will be 14 feet, the base riletn floor 12 feet, and the Mezzanine 10 feet. Each 80 p will he secured by party'- w alls, and roofed with iron ku 'Tama and arches under the o ne- p air floor. The water l'''st2ts will be in the basements : there will be a separate flue .4 each shop, a nd room for the f ire -places; and I propose that each shop and room shall be w armed by an open or •, .nott , s cove of the same pattern. The staircases will be circular and of cast iron. Staircases of this kind, though not much known here, ' l4 ' o been extensively used in Paris, and are admirably adapted for such purposes. I have paid every attention to t he mode of lighting the deeper shops, and I hope 1 have stl 'eveded in obviating all reasonable apprehension on that 141 4ect. The shops without Mezzanines are, one in the smith front, rnse in the north front, arid four in the eastern etttlance to the Exchange ; in the area, in the latter case, they are left out, to allow of light being obtained over th e kn° Pg to the hack parts of the ether premises. EXCHANGE.—The Exchange is entered from four arched openings in the centre of each side ; the form is a I ; ) ,, t rallelograrn, ai,d the inner area exactly a double square. [ his form has many advantages, both in point of conveni ence and elegance over the old form, and it is also better z danted to the shape of the ground. A 9 to the level 19f the floor of the Exchance, I have heard many cptnions ; but it appears to me to be of the greatest importance that it should be as nearly level with the Ntreet as possible. From the natural fall of the ground, however, which is quite gradual, but amounts to 3 feet 6 inches in the length of the building from cast to west, tt is imprssible to avoid a few steps at the herb, south, and west en trances. is an advantage at the west cud, as it gives height ard character to the facade or portico; the exact off et and extent of this tall of ti.e ground is shown in toy north and s,uth elevations. the shops the steps we avoided, because they c:1 follow the natural inMinatien of the ground. BASEMENT.—Much of the basement (cr vaults) is occu pied by the establi,hments over the respective divisions, and I have added some to the lesser shops, but there is stil a large space which may be let off, as the basement of the old building was. I have lighted the basement by area gratings in the pavement of the Exchange, exactly as formerly. The public vaults are approached by two staircases, which are placed in the eastern Entrance. The central area is proposed to be left without a base ment ; it would be difficult to keep it dry, and I do not know any use to which it could be applied which would pay for the cost. STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE. This is naturally one of the most important considerations in the design, and one in which I have most to regret the limited time I have had to consider this most extensive and difficult composition. It appears to me that a building for essentially commercial purposes should present the character of grandeur, simplicity, and useful:it ss. In this way, the universally acknowledged good effect of the Bourse at Pads has been obtained. In that building the lines are simple and unbroken, and the large arched win dows surrounding the walls behind the columns have all the character of shops or offices. The west front of the Exchange of London, as in that at Paris, niu.t be the principal feature, the other sides being ben :dad by build- ings. Another difficulty arises from the shapo of the ground ; because any tower placed to agree with the lines of the south front, must disagree with the lines of the east and west fronts, which are in different planes; and such an ob jict, when seen f , ont a distance or from the area of the Exchange, would produce an effect that would be dis cordant and unarchitectural, because it would bring into distinct notice a fact which it should be the business of the architect to conceal. For a long time I contended with this difficulty, because 1 was anxious to place the tower or towers in the tooth front, but it was impossible to get over the irregularity ; it would indeed have been easy to have concealed this de fect in the drawings, or have kept it out of notice, but the result, when built, would only have ended, in my judgment, in disappointment and failure. For these reasons, and with these views, I 'nave com posed my design as it is now exhibited. I have placed a portico at the west end, and the tower at the cast. The south and north fronts exhibit unbroken lines of entabla ture, with a repetition of arches of the same character fur the shops, offices, an:l entrances. We are deficient in England of specimens of architecture of this unbroken kind were Ito adduce instances, I should quote the Na tional Gallery as affording an illustration of the bad effect of broken and detached masses, and the Reform Club of the excellent effect or continuous and unbroken ones. ....- - The — portico would be very superior in dimensions to any in this country, and not very inferior to any in the world. The width from outside to outside of the eight columns is 90 feet, and the height from the ground to the apex of the pediment is 74 feet 6 inches. The portico of St. Martin's Church is 64 feet wide and 5S feet high, that at the Post office 76 feet wide and 67 feet high ; and from these dimensions a fair comparison may be made of the relative size of the two porticoes. The height of the order used in this edifice is 50 feet, and the height of the tower to the top of the vane is 170 feet. From the point of view prescribed by the instructions the tower is not seen; had 1 been at liberty to have removed the station further to the westward, as to Mansion-house street or the Poultry, the tower would have been seen over the portico, and the effect of the eompositi,n thereby greatly improved. The sections and view show the exact character of the in terior of the Exchange. The foyer story is a colonnade of the Porie order, the columns arc 34 inches diameter; the upper order is lonic. Si-ECIFICATION OF THE NATURE OF TtIE WORK —The examination of tire foundations which I ventured to sug gest, has pros ed that the torture of the sub-soil is of the best kind for supporting a large building. At an ave rage; of 15 feet from the surface a very compact gravel is fou4d. For the sake of' perfect uniformity, I should ex cavate sufficiently for a few feet below this, and by an uni forM bed of concrete, of the thickness of 6 feet over the whole surface, a most certain and safe foundation would be made. The gravel is full of water, and therefore the drainage must be cu . :efully considered. Your conditions require a general specification, but, without going into full technicalities, lam at a loss to furnish a specification of any value. I intend everything to be executed in the beet manner. All external work to be faced with Portland stone ; ail the horizontal divisions that require it, for the purposes of security from fire, to be Constructed with iron beams and brick arches; and the ceiling and floor over the colonnade constructed in the same manner. The timber used to be all Baltic timber, English oak, or African teak. Everything to be sufficiently and completely finished in all respects. SCULPTURE --I. have not introduced much sculpture into this design, because the estimate would not allow of it ; and I have, therefore, aimed at a style which did not require it to any extent. The sculpture introduced as essential to the architecture embraces the five panels in the attic of the south front, and the two figures at the west end. The panels in the south front are intended to represent Britannia, sup ported by .the principal cities of the empire, receiving the representatives and productions of the four quarters of tie world ; the two seated figures in the west front are emblematical of Peace and Abundance. There are se veral shields of arms, which, though not falling exactly under the head of sculpture, I think it desirable to mention, and they arc as follows the escutcheons on the key-stones of the three great arches of the west front arc the arms of Queen Elizabeth, Charles the Second, and Queen Vic toria. These arms are repeated in the panels of the attic at the cast end. In the north and south fronts, on the key-stones of the centre arches, the arms arc those of the City, the Mercers' Company, and Sir Thomas Gresham. _ . ESTIMATE. I estimate the cost of this edifice, as thus described, in cluding the sculpture, at the sum of 1.13,8001. INCOME. I have estimated with great care the income to be de rived from the various shops, offices, and public establish ments proposed in the several floors of the building, by comparing dimensions and other circumstances with the previous lettings, and by the actual value derived from my own experience ; awl I am of opinion that the total net annual value, if let on lease, would amount to the sum of 8,718/. per annum. In addition to this, if the space allotted to Lloyd's Corn ffiercial Room on the north side, and th.lt to the London Assurance on the south side, were arranged as offices, each set having two rooms, one over the other, as suggested in an early part of this statement, though the estimate would be increased 3,000/ , I have no doubt this annual income might be raised to die extent of 8001. per annum, making a total income of 9,500/. per annum. In concluding these remarks, the Committee will allow me to convey to them my grateful thanks for the exten sion of time they granted me (unasked on my pat t) front the 17th to the 27th ; but, owing to the delay in obtain ing the requisite instructions from the several offices, I cannot but feel that all the time I have had has, notwithstanding, been much too little to do justice to this subject. If, therefore, any errors or discrepancies should be discovered in these drawings, the Committee will please to attribute them to this cause. In the drawings themselves I have carefully laboured to follow out the instructions, under which I undertook this competition: The views aro strictly confined to the points of view prescribed : in the colouring of the views themselves, and in the drawing of the adjoining buildings, I have laboured to be accurate, and to give as nearly as I could the actual effect of this edifice if it were cot, structed. I cannot but feel that a more elaborate style of architecture would have 15..? - en productive of more pic turesque effects, aid it would have been easy to have pro duced them; but I have ventured to conic to the con clusion, that nothing but plain grandeur and elegant sim plicity is consistent, either with the means at the disposal of the Committee, the purposes and uses of this building, or its situation in the very heart of the city of London. Whether I have succeeded in realising my conceptions, it will be for the Committee to determine ; and I now re sign my task into their hands, relying upon their kind and candid consideration of the subject. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM TUE DAILY PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. (From the Globe.) " Wanted—one or two conscience-struck Members !" A moderate want; and not new. While Mr. Hume set forth, a modern Diogenes, to seek " one or two conscience- struck Mem bers," and explores with his lantern the lobbies of the House of Commons, and the Carlton and Rcfor.n Clubs, we too would beg of Members who can afford it, to keep a conscience. There is so much talk of political purity. and religious instruc tion, on the Opposition side, that plain people begin to enter tain serious apprehensions. Tory anxiety for our rights and our morals affects us with awkward sensations, like those ex perienced by the King of 1. illiput's subjects on his proclama tions of mercy. To be serious ;we tell our Tory opponents, as we have told them before, and got no thanks for it-- they are pushing their present tactics of aggression too far. Non pogredi est regredi, has beeen said lately on our side. Non regredi est progredi, appears the axiom of Opposition : and, for fear we should be progressing forward, they are determined to make us " advance backwards." N ow this is an irrational attempt, even on their own princi ples. High Church, and close Aristocracy, have been driven from the helm of state. Their policy could not show its face latterly, even while their friends held power ; and they only kept power, for some years, by passing the measures cl their opponents. How can they now expect to regain it, by again putting forward what is most positive and dogmatical, and most unpopular, in their own principles ? ( From the Courier.) We refer, not with the exultation which the Whig Minis terialists have evinced when they have obtained a small majo rity, to the debate of last night on the important measure introduced by Lord Stanley. Until that time we had no con ception that the morality of the House of Commons was at so low an ebb—that out of a House of six hundred Members, upwards of two hundred and ninety voted against the destruction of a system of swindling and perjury to which the whole history of the world affords no parallel. However, so it is ; and the fact is now placed upon indelible record that. there are men occupying the more responsible stations of lite, who have not scrupled to affirm by a solemn act that the disgraceful and utterly indefensible system of Irish registration is too excellent to be examined in a Committee of their House. (From the Standard.) The contest which has occupied the HOUSO of Commons since Monday, terminated last night in a division, when the House decided upon going into Committee by a majority of 301 to 298—the Members present being, with tellers and Speaker, 601—as full a Ho use, we believe, as has been collected duringinany years. This punctual attendance proves the import-. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, MAY 22, an ee attached to thequestion under consideration, and the exertion wade to bring up as many Members as possible. Before the public was in posses,ion of this decisive evidence, it was, however, wr, , 11 known that the Ministers had put forth all their energies open the occasion, treating the question as a vital one to their Ail rninistration, and prodigally dispensing, threats and promises, engagements and concessions, and all those other persuasives, which give to the party in filliCO so manifest an advantage ia eases Q 2 the kind. Taking the result of the debate and division, then, in any possible view, it must be regarded as a solemn sentence pronounced by the Parliament against the Ministers., Lord LYNDHURST said the Noble and Learned Lord had stated that the petitioners were tee late in their application. The fact, however, was, iliat the moment jnil ' omsent was pronounced ti.e application bad been nonce,. and !bought they had an absolute right to, call upon tile Treasury to give thorn the right of appeal to the Privy Council. It was quite Clear that the - award of the Com missioners was incorrect, Eccause c.ornyici:san w.as given for the Champagne estates, the award having been confined to the Burgundy estates. The opinion of the Law Officers of . the Crown, to which his Noble and Learned Friend referred, did not appear to him ( Lord Lyndhurst) of much weight, for they had be - :n retained as Counsel against the petitioners. Under these circum stances, he thought the nartios bad a right to have their claims referred to the Privy Council. After afew words from the LORD CHANCELLOR in explanation, the conversation dropped. The Marquis of NORM ANB Y, in presenting papers from Commissioners of Poor-laws in Ireland, took the opportunity of explaining to the Noble .Baron opposite that Le had ee,mmunicated with Ni culs, from whom he learned that the object of the circular referred to in a former conversation was generally to avoid the inconvenience of having fractions in the valu ation, and that the effect of omitting the fractions would be to diminish instead of increasing the valuation. How. ever, - the circul.r had been since recalled, as it was un derstood that the Assistant Commissioner had exceeded his authority in issuing it. The Noble Marquis then moved the second readinr , of the Insane Prisoners' Bill, which, after a few words from the Duke of Richmond and Lord Portman, was agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be committed to-morrow. iMPERI AL PARLIAMENT. HO U SE OF LORDS, MAY 21. The Earl of SHAFTESBVRY took his seat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock. Lord How DEN took the oaths, and subscribci the Par liamentary Roll. The Earl of II ARDWICK E presented a petition from Northileet, praying for no alteration of the duty on foreign fruit, Also a petition to tho same effect from the parish of Liston, in Cambridgeshire, and a petition from the Farmers' A sociation of Cambridge for an equalization of the taxes on manufacturing and agricultural property. The Archbishop of DUBLIN gave notice that he would present on Tuesday a petition respecting the rubs.criiitin of the articles of the Liturgy, THE FINANCES. The Earl of RIPON said that although the papers for which he was about to move would not be objected to, as they had been laid before the other House, nevertheless he would take the liberty of making a few preliminary re marks upon the subject to which they referred. At the beginning of the Session he had called attention to the unsatisfactory, and,as he thought, alarming condition of the finances. It appeared to him, then, that we were entering on a course of financial policy inconsistent with the best interests, if not the safety of the country. In the last two years there had been a considerable excess of expenditure over income, which had arisen from causes over which the Government had no control, and for which they were not responsible. The state of affairs at home and abused had compelled the Goveruinent to call on Par liament for a great addition to the establishments of the country. • He stated at that time that there did not appear to him in the domestic and fortign relations of the country any reason to justify the hope of such a change as might make it expedient or safe to reduce the expenditure. He had since watched . with a good deal of interest the events to which he referred as having occasioned the unsatisfac tory and critical state of our finances. It would be a satisfaction if he could see anything in the financial re turns of the last three months that could justify him in expecting a possibility of reducing the expenditure within the regular income of the country. It was true some of the causes of expense might be diminished, there might be a greater probability that some of cur affairs with foreign powers might be settled, but that was not apparent. With respect to the internal condition of the country, it might not be in the same state of alarm, but he did not think it would be prudent to reduce the military force, which was increased at the beginning of the Session in consequence of the state of the country., As to another part of the United Kingdom he did not think the Go%ernment could dispense with any protective force that was established there. There was a volcano there which now was in 'a state of repose, but which only wanted a signal from those who controlled agitation there to break out and overwhelm that unfortunate part of the empire with its pestilence. Looking to those matters he saw no reason whatever to justify the expectation that the establishments could be reduced. But there was another cause of expenditure for which he had not been prepared, he meant the impending hostilities with China—he had no notion of the operations which were to be carried on, or of the objects which were to be sought. The House had been left in the dark upon the subject, and the reason why he hael'not before asked for information was, that the re ference made to China in her Majesty's - speech could not lead any man to suppose that we were on the verge of a war with that empire. But at that time the Government must have known that such a war was probable. However they did not choose to say so to. Parliament, although at the time or ders had been issued for the army to assemble in India. He knew that the probability of the Chinese carrying on a successful war with this country would not be entertained. Yet there was in that great empire a via inertim, which might make it very difficult for us to enforce a n y t erms, and no person could pretend to determine the conclusion of hostilities or the limits of the expenses in which we may be involved. Having watched without, he hoped, unreasonable impatience, but certainly with some anxiety, for the views which Ministers might form as to'the mode of meeting the exigencies of the financial crisis,' he would take the liberty of stating, in the first instance, what was the absolute condition of the finances, and what was the exigency which Parliament was called on to meet. It appeared that in the year ending April, 5, 1838, the sur plus of expenditure over income was 1,428 000/. In the year ending April 5, 1839, it was 430 0001., and in the year ending April 5, 1840, it was 1,427,000/., making a total excess of expenditure in the three years of about 4,300,000/. That was rather a formidable thing to go on with from year to year, but it was more formida ble if it was looked at in connexion with what it might be this year.—( Hear, hear, hear.) During the last four years we had been going on at the rate of an excessive expenditure of one million and a half 'over our income, and if that system were to be continued, where would be the end to our embarrassment ? The ex penditure of the present year had exceeded the ex penditure of last year, but it had materially exceeded that of the last six years. Supposing the revenue should be taken at the same as last year, it would amount to about 47,000,000/ , but from that was to be deducted an expected loss of 300,000/., in consequence of some nego tiations going on with France. He did not wish to cuter prematurely into a discussion of a treaty of which he knew nothing, but he trusted that G overnment h a d ma d e accu rate calculations on the subject; but the estimated defi ciency amounted to 2,730,0001., which it was obvious must be met, and accordingly it was intended to impose new taxes-to the amount of 2 ,337,0001., still leaving a deficit balance of nearly 400,0001., which it was intended to pro vide for by a vote of credit. That was nothing else than borrowing money ; a vote of credit was to all intents and purposes a loan, and we were now going to enter into a new loan at the same time that we were going to impose new taxes. It was said that the expenditure for China and Canada will be but temporary, and that it is therefore unnecessary to impose new taxes for that. If he were convinced that the expenditure would be but temporary he might accede to the proposition. But suppose the circumstances obliged us to continue that expenditure for another year, just so long must we have again recourse to ,the miserable and dangerous expedient of borrowing, lie thought that the deficit of 1841 would amount to 8.50,000/ , and must be all borrowed, so that that will again create an increase of expenditure, and widen the difference between income and could think that th ese c h arges e xpenditure. Even if he were temporary he would Atilt feel very uneasy at the situ ation in which things would be left. The Government ought always to have' an available surplus. Yet it ao , peered that the principle upon which they acted was, that the income should not be a farthing more than the expendi tnre. That was' a most unsatisfactory state of things,' aid he thought our power would be materially crippled, both at home and abroad. Sonic persons thought that it was better, in place of having a surplus, with which to reduce the debt, to allow the money to fructify in the pockets of the people. That was n principle which lie could not understand. -They could never meet any sudden demand without borrowiug money, whereas one of the greatest advantages of an habitual sur plus was, that it enabled them to meet any demand that might arise without having recourse to the miserable ex pedient of borrowing. Ile would give one instance where an available surplus had been of the greatest benefit to the country. In 1823 there was a real available surplus of considerable amount. The duty- upon spirits during the war, and up to that time, had been very high, which had been productive of the most evil consequence; every one had become smugglers, and 'the whole country was in a state of the utmost disorder'. The army in Ireland were occupied not in hunting after an open enemy, but after con cealed stills. The position of things had become intoler able. There was but One remedy, that was a large reduc tion of tie duty, and it was reduced to one half, involving a probable loss of 800,000/. He certainly had not anticipated such a loss would accrue, but he, by having a large sue. plus, bad been enabled to run that risk, and had done, by means of the surplus, an incalculable good for the country. Supposing that during last year there had been a surplus, the Government might have carried into effect the Post office scheme—one which he did not value so highly as many ethers appeared to do, but the scheme could have been carried into eff.:ct without the necessity for imposing new taxes. There was nothing in the world so unsatis factory as imposing a new tax for one that bad been taken off lie that was relieved from a tax very soon forgot his sense of grathude to the Government and Legislature, while he who was subject to the new imposition never rested until he had obtained its repeal. Besides, an available surplus was a means of reducing the expenditure, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be well received in the House of Commons if he were enabled to say that he had been able to save the sum of 70,000/. per annum. who ther it was upon the collection of the revenue, or by having paid off a corresponding amount of debt. Again, the un funded debt in E xc hequer Bills was very' sufficient sec ur ity, and also an easy means to raise money ; but, in his opinion, time Government ought always to have a means of con trolling that security by means of a surplus.--( Hear, hear, hear.) Last year the Government had been able to fund four millions of Exchequer Bills, which in his opinion was a very wise measure, but notwithstanding that diminution in the amount of those bills they sunk to a discount, and the Government were compelled to raise the interest at an expense of 150,000/. ; and if he were correct in his anticipations for the next year that expense would be increased by 20 or 30,000/. more. In fact a surplus was the only means of keeping our finances and circulation in a sound and healthy state. Taking all these things together he thought it was a most unfortunate cir cumstance if lie were to understand that the principle of the Government for the future was to be the utter rejection lacyG o - the of a surplus. He believed that such a system and a do pti would cad ng a in gre • t disappointm t c h n e t t veinment expected would please the country because they did not imp ose new taxes, he thought they would be di -sappointed, and they would find that it would be much easier now to impose taxes, in order to give a valid surplus, than it would be some 'years hence, after the principle had been acted upon. The Noble Earl concluded by moving that an account of income and expenditure of the country be laid on th e t a bl e . Load MELBOURNE , who was indisti nct l y h eard at the commencement of his speech, said t h at i t was not un natural that his Noble Friend should take that opportunity of calling attention to the subject of the finances of the country. - His Noble Friend admitted the state of affairs, both at borne and abroad, was more proepereua now than • it was at the period to which he had referred, and that it appeared probab'e that virile of thole questions which had then appeared to hint so menacing and pregnant with danger and difficulty, would be brought to a peaceful and prosperous termination—ti:h-t the state or affairs at home was certainly more tranquil; and that even in these parts of her Majesty's dominions which he had regarded with so much dread and fear, and had represented as a volcano which only required a signal to produce an eruption. ( H o w it was possible to give a signal to a volcano he 'did net exactly understand.) Even there there was a tempo rary tranquillity, which it 'would be wrong to do any thing to disturb. He ( Lord Melbourne) did not like to indulge in any predictions on the present vtate of affairs, for he was aware such predictions were frequently falsified by the event ; but he thought he might, on 'the showing of his Noble Friend, give thanks (Jr the favourabl,alteration which had taken] place, and hope for better for the future, ) without expressing any confident views on the subject. His Noble Friend had spoken of matters of which he said he was not aware at the beginning of the Session, which he was afraid would occasion great difficulty and expense, and require more particular attention, and expressed his regret that the attention of Parliament had net been pro perly called fo them by her Majesty's speech. But if his Noble Frien - d would consider that speech, be thought he would find nothing could more distinctly point at that time to the circumstances which had taken place, and those which were likely to take place in relation to the interruption of our intercourse with the Chinese empire, her Majesty having informed them that "events had happened in China which bad occasioned the interruption of commercial intercourse with that country," and desired them " to give the deepest attention to a sub ject so affecting the interest of her subjects and the dignity of her Crown." It was impossible, taking into conside ration the usual reserve of Parliamentary language, more distinctly to have called the attention of Parliament to the consideration of the events which . had taken place in that part of the world. His Noble Friend had spoken of the growing excess there had been of late years of the expen diture over the income of the country. He stated gene rally that it would he impossible the system should be permitted to go on ; that it was one necessarily pregnant with danger, and called for the examination of the Go vernment and the country. It was that reason which bad induced the Government to adopt the course they had taken, and to propose the measures they had proposed, having a strong sense and feeling that the excess of ex penditure over income could. not be long permitted, either with honour, credit, or safety to the country. His Ncble Friend had stated distinctly the whole state ofeheir finan cial affairs, the whole charges which were upon -jhe. country, and the expected d e f a l cat i on , an d h a d seiff it would not be proper for him to go into the consideration of the articles of a treaty not yet concluded, and with which he was unacquainted ; but he trusted that due consideration h'ad ocen given to all matters relating to it, and the probable amount of loss that may be expected: tie ( Lord M.) believed that a correct calculation had been made on this subject, and that all the circumstances to which his Noble Friend had alluded had been taken into consideration. The loss expected to be incurred had been placed at the highest, and would very possibly be less, as he trusted would be the case. That loss was not so great as was intimated by the statement to which his Noble Friend had referred. His Noble Friend bad stated distinctly these expenses were considered but as temporary, and 'that the deficiency which was occasioned by them were to be made up by a vote of credit, for the Government did not think they would be justified in laying on the country permanent taxes to meet what they trusted would be only a temporary expense, and not be incurred another year. If it should be continued, or succeeded by others of a similar character—an event which, unfortunately in the present state.of affairs, Waebut too likely—they must meet that when the d'fficuitiescame, for they thought the present circumstances of the country would not justify the ithposition of permanent burdens for expenses which he trusted would not continue. 'But the great objection which his' Noble Friend made to the whole system on which they acted, and to the whole course of their conduct, nod that part of his 'speech which in his ( Lord Melbourne's) opinion, was extremely valuable, and which, if it contained his sincere • opinion, he thanked his Noble Friend, for making—the objec. tion that he pronounced, to the principle of conducting the financial affairs of this country—on the policy of net imposing taxes for` the distinct purpose of producing a surplus of income ever expenditure—that if taxes produced a surplus it might be applied to those purposes for which a surplus was applicable, but that it was not wise to impose the continuance of taxes for the purpose of pro ducing that surplus. This was a question of -great diffi culty and importance, and which it was of great importance should be decided correctly'.. The principle on which this country had acted for many years was to have a surplus. In the year 1819, a period. of considerable diffi culty, his friend, and the friend of his Noble Friend also, 'Mr. Huskisson, moved a resolution to the effect that there should always be a surplus of some millions, which was carried in the House of Commons by a large majority; but great financial difficulties had since followed, and their pressure had spread over the whole. country, and induced the Government to renounce and abandon that principle, which it was, in fact, impossible to maintain • and it did certainly appear to him t o b e a very difficult question, whither it was wiser to impose taxes for the purpese of creating a surplus, or not to impose more tharowas abso lutely necessary for the expenditure of the. country.-- ( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend had ridiculed the phrase " to fructify in the pocket of the people," and said he did not understand what was meant by that fructifica tion. The expression had been used by an Hon. Friend, then in office with them both, and late President of the Board of 'grade, and his meaning NM to ask, whether it was wiser to impose taxes for a surplus" to be kept with great expense and loss, or to leave a larger capital in the' possession of the people which might be so employed as would promote the general wealth and prosperity of the country, and enable it to meet any of those difficulties which might arise, and • not to exhaust it by unnecessary taxation. He (Lord Melbourne) said this was an impor tant questiob. He knew well the system of a surplus had not been hastily abandoned—but, on the contrary, on principles of reason and political economy, and possibly it, might be said, of political necessity. His Noble Friend had panegyrised the advantages cf a sur plus, but that was quite unnecessary, for 'a sure plus was generally admitted to be good and desir able thing. It needed not the exertion of .much elo quence to prove that. Taking- all the circumstances of the Government into consideration—taking also into con. sideration the feelings and situation of the people, and the general economical question, it did appear to him that it was not clear that it was wise or prudent to impose taxes on a country, for the sake of producing a surplus. At the same time, it was not a question on which he would ,undertake or presume to give a decided opinion at pre sent ; but he thought, under the present circnmstaaces and situation of the country, the measures which bad been proposed were sufficient for the occasion, and the best that could have been proposed. There would be no objection to produce the papers desired by the Noble Lord. Lord A SHBURTON, who was nearly inaudible at the commencement of his speech, was understood to say, that he highly applauded the measures of the Noble Earl (Ripon), and pancejrised the manner in which he had carried them out during the time he held office. At that period there was a deficiency of between five and six mil lions;and what policy did his Noble Friend recommend to the people ?—not that recommended in the present day. He did not •court popularity by reducing taxation, and leaving cur burdens to our children, but met the, difficuley , manfully in the face, and covered the deficiency tion. Whether it was called a si n ki ng fund by taxa- On a surplus, it amounted to the same thing, and h e thoe g lit that un l ess this country returned to that—th e ord.y sound and honest but 'roguery a n d sw i n dli ng i n policy (for there was nothin g the opposite system), they W0...1W find themselves subjected to time insults of every country, without the means or resources of avenging them. Every person knew. even in ordinary affairs, that their income never should exceed their expenditure. He would recommend the Noble Viscount the perusal of Mr. Huskissou's speech on this subject, where he would find it powerfully ex pressed that no country could be independent in power or resources, unless en this one principle of having some surplus fund beyond its ordinary expenditure. The reso lution which the Noble Viscount alluded to, was one passed in the House of Commons in the year 1819, by a majority of 19 . 7, there b e i ng b ut a sma ll m i nority, and is— .. To provide for the expenses of the public service,:and to make such reductions in the debt as aro adequate to the support of the public credit, and afford to the country future relief from the present burdens; it is absolutely necessary there should be an increase of surplus over expenditure, of not less than five millions,' and for which it is expedient there should be an increase of income amounting to three mil lions annually." And what would happen to this country, if any tireumstances should occur, which would require an expenditure of eight, ten, or fifteen millions, a hich was a small amount compared to what was ex pended at different times during the last war. Then they must borrow or tax for the purpose, and it was unjus tifiable to go on in a system of borrowing on the plea which every Minister adopted—that it was merely an occasional expense, and that therefore it was unwise to impose taxa. tion for the purpose. If they looked to other countries— , America for instance—they would find a different system prevailed. That country, unfortunately for us and for themselves, was involved in a contest with us, which occa slotted a large expenditure. Nothing was more justifiable or sound in finance than to borrow for that purpose, but it was not honest to borrow if they did not make provision for the gradual payment in time of peace of that they had borrowed in time of war. That country had paid that debt, and did not owe a sixpence, and ire (Lord Ashburton) doubted whether the sagacity of that people had not found, as every people must find, that their honour and independence was best secured by taking off that debt in time of peace which they had con tracted during war. As to the occasional demands which might come upon him, the Noble Viscount had only to consider how numerous they had been, to see they were of constant occurrence. We had now a quarrel with Portu gal, and an Ambassador had arrived from that Court to endeavour to prevent an interruption of the amicable intercourse of the two countries. There was Naples and Sicily, and the Boundary Question in America. All these difficulties were greater in number than could have been by prudent management of our foreign affairs, at least he must be a very unfortu nate Minister for Foreign Affairs to have so many things of this kind an his hands. Therefore a surplus of revenue was desirable in order to make provision for any sudden exigency ; and further, as was so ably stated in Mr. Hue. o s r p r e e e v e e h r , m t e o , amgaakinestpwrohviieshionnofotirlintghecoorudldinaproysfliiabely tkui es t e i ( a , a n 's guard. He laid down the principle that in a revenue of fifty millions a fluctuation may be expected to the extent of , ten per cent. This was a most important question, and be had too much opinion of the honesty and good sense of the people of this country, that if they were reasoned with, as in the days of Pitt and Huskisson, they would be willing to submit to the ins. position which was necessary for the sincerity and inde pendence of the country. He thought hr the calculations the Government were going on they had much u n d ervalued the sums that would be required, to what extent no one knew ; but except they had a " little war" 150,0001. in Judie appeared to biro to he. very little for a dcroonstra • tion which was to frighten the Emperor of China. lie hoped, however, the Noble Lcrd had sufficiently con sidered the subject with respect to the treaty with France ; all he could say was, nothing could give him grcat:T pleasure than a commercial intercourse with that country. He thought if the project were really entertainrd in good faith between the two countries there could be no greater advantage to both, but the little expe iience he had on this subject left hitr in doubt as to any thing effectual being done. He would not trespass further on their Lordships than to make one observation with re spect to Exchequer Bi!ls. Instead of having a surplus the country were saddled with an expense of 150,0001. interest in Exchequer Bile, and the whole monetary affairs of the Government were deranged by an unfunded debt more than the market would bear, and what ordinary prudence would have prevented. 13-fore he sat down he must thank his Noble Friend fur having drawn attention to the subject, which was the most important that could engage the attention of the Government and the people. He begged to ask the Noble Viscount whether the treaty with France was expected to be effected during the pre sent Session? Lord MELBOURNE was understood to reply that he could not answer that question. • Lord MONTE AG LE presented a petition against Church -rates, and a petition againSt the opium trade with China. The House then adjourned at Eight o'Clock. EVHNINCI RDITI(Ast• tho Government of Canada being brought forbYgrip 114 ssou4l rnc,v4 , that it he cocsidcred that day six tron92lh Ii !.,' also gave notice on the same Biji of aa amei,dreent fur an Address to her Mdcsty, prayitk her to remove the suspension of the habeas Corpus Act is Canada. CAPITAL OFFENCES. Mr. GODSON gave notice of a motion, 2d June, for erecting the fifteen Judges into a Court of Appeal in cri minal cases—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. O'Connell) — and, on tie part of his Learned Friend, Mr. F. Kelly, that the motion respecting capital punishments would be put off till the same day. ADJOURNMENT' OF THE HOUSE. Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that to-morrow be would move that the House, at its rising, to adjourn till TuestLy next. Mr. E. J. STANLEY moved for a new writ for the borough of Coekerinoutit in the room of Mr. Horsorian, uho had accepted the office of one of the Lords of her Msjcsty's Treasury. In &timer to a question from Mr. HERRIES, who WWI wholly inaudible in the gallery, Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to say, that the Bill with regard to the taxes would be proposed to morrow. Sir R. PEEL begged leave to inquire what the Noble Lord proposed to do on the 29th, with respect to the busi ness of the ? Lore. J. P USSELL said that he proposed the House should sit. Sir R. PEEL said the Noble Lord would recollect that, before the Easter holidays, he stated that the papers mow. d for respecting the Boundary question, and our differences with the United States, should be immediately laid before Parliament. Shortly before the House separated he understood from the Noble Lord that the papers were actually printed, but they had not yet been presented. He (Sir R. Peel) wished to know when they would he laid on the table. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Right Hon. Baronet had correctly stated shat he said at the time. When he gave that answer be thought the whole of the papers had been printed ; but that hap pened to be the ease only with respect to papers from his own department. They bad now been ready for some time, but he thought it better to present them to gether with tho3e from the Foreign-office, which were not, but shortly would be, ready. CLERGY RESERVES. Mr. PAKING TON wished to ask the Noble Lord the Secretory , for the Colonies if ho had decided on the course _he. intended to.prapore.with regard to the Clergy Ilcser%,es Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was his intention to move for leave to bring in the Bill into that House. regard to the nature of the Bill it would not be to carry into effect the Bill passed by the Legislature of Upper Canada, but it would contain generally provisions upon the same principle as that Bill. Mr. PA KINGTON i►,quired whe'dicr it would be on the tabla before the discussic,n on the Canada Govern. cent Bill? Lord J. RUSSELL—No; I don't think it will be ready by that time. IRISH REGISTRATION BILL. Mr. O'CONNELL begged to give notice, that upon the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair, on going into Committee on the Irish Registration Bill, be should MOVZI that it be an instruction and a direction to the Com mittee to daae the existing franchise. in order that the more due registration of voters might take place. The lion. and Learned Manber then said that he wished to correct a mistake thr.t he niar?e a little while ago pith respect to the p , titian from Buth. He had stated that that petition was totally false; he meant by that, merely that every charge against him of a criminal nature was Use. fie did not mean to deny that he was agitating for a repeal of the Union. Sr C. DOUGLAS put a question to Mr. F. Maulo, relative to Union Workhouses, but neither the question nor answer were hoard iu the Gallery. Mr. GODSON bogged to wk the Noble Secretary fur the Colonies whether there wcuid be any objection to I.:y the contract for carrying the mails to the Colonies, which involved the sum of 2,400 0001. Lord J. RUSSELL said his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer would he better able to an swer the question. It had better be put when he was in his pike. CHURCH EXTENSION. The Order of the Day haying been moved, petitions in favour of Church Extension were presented by the Earl of Darlin g ton and Mr. Pusey ; and ag a i nst , b y M r . E . B u ll er. Sir R. INGLIS—Since be came into the House a communication had been made to him which left him no alternative but to postpone the notice of motion which stood in his rime..—( Hear, hear, hear.) He had to apologise to Members on both sides of the House for the needless trouble which he had caused them, and he deeply regretted, for the sake of the cause itself, that any circumstance should have rendered any postponement necessary. At the same time the communication made to him was of such a nature, and from so high an authority, that he .could not withstand it. He considered it more respectful to the house at once to state that that communication was, that he ought to have originated his motion in a Committee of the whole House. He had then no other course to take than to beg leave to withdraw his notice of motion, and in doing so he begged to state that on the earliest possible day after the holidays he would certainly call the at tention of the ' House to the general subject. He was not then prepared to state the terms of the notice he would give, but he would take care that it appeared upon the books in time for the information f every Hon. Member. He regretted the course he was obliged to take, and he bad now only to withdraw his no •tiee of motion and tcnew it for an early day after the holidays. Mr. II UME was sorry the Hon. Baronet had put off his motion ; he did not seem to be aware of the excitement existing on the subject. What. was to prevent the Hon. Baronet moving at once that the House should resolve itself into a Committee, and then bringing the subject forward, or he (Mr. Hume) would move, that the House do resolve itself into a Committee, when he would bring forward the amendment of which he had given notice as a substantive motion, and the Hon. Baronet could bring forward his motion as an amendment. The SPEAKER said that the proposition of the Hon. Member was quite as irregular as it would be for the Hon. Baronet to bring forward his motion. The Hon. Member must be aware that any motion for imposing an ad ditional charge upon the people must be made in a Com mittee of the whole House, and that due notice must be given. - - Mr. HUME wished to ask if he was to understand that cc subject connected with religion could be brought for ward, except in a Committee of the whole House, and that notice must be given? He thought that was a doc trine perfectly new.—( Cries of " Order," " Chair.") The SPEAKER said the Standing Order of the 1-1; use was, that they should not proceed to the discussion of any motion for an Address to the Crown, on matters likely to impose an additional charge on the people, except in a Committee of the whole llcuse. Mr. HUME was perfectly aware of that ; but he wanted to know whether it was necessary that notice should be given of the intention of moving that the House resolve itself into a Committee. The SPEAKER said that it was necessary far an lion. Member to give notice that it was his intention on some future day to move that the House resolve itself into a Committee for such a purpose. S:r R. PEEL said it was exceedingly doubtful whether it was absolutely necessary that every question relating to trade or religion should originate in a Committee of the House. 11e was aware, however, that many Bills had been stopped on that ground. Mr. GOULBURN said the rule was that no grant of money could be proposed, for whatever object, but in Committee. Sir R. INGLIS said if it were found necessary to make two motions, he hoped that the formal one would be allowed to pass without thbite. Lord .1. RUSSELL said he had discovered that a clause in the Canada Bill should have been introduced in Com mittee. He hoped, therefore, that the House would allow him to take the Committee stage to-morrow. Mr. G B URN— What clause ? Lord J. RUSSELL—That referring to the Civil List. Sir R. PEEL—I for one shall not object, but I must give the Noble Lord full notice that if he cannot use his influence with his own friends, to rest:ain them from taking advantage of every little point of form to obstruct motions on tli:s side—( Hear, hear, hear)—be will find that th e same advantage will be taken by others, and that he will not thereby advance the Government business.—( Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL —The Right Hon. Baronet is so far mistaken that what I propose is not against Corm, the I3itl being now, I believe, on the orders tor to-morrow. As to the Right Honourable Baronet's second obser vation, I perfectly agree that advantage ought not to be taken of points of form, unless for the most serious reasons, otherwise every party will avail themselves of such points, and for myself I shall pro test, against such co n d uct f ront any party.—( Hear, bear. ) Sir R. PE EL—Lie two eases arc precisely parallel. —( Hear, hear, and No, no.) The Noble Lord states that two stages are nee2ssary, and he proposes to take one without discussion_that is exactly what my Hon. Friend proposed.—( Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL—I must agree that what the Hon. Baronet proposes, will be in this case the most conveni ent.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME begged to say that he did not object to golng on now—(Laughter)—but to taking two stages at a time he should object.—( Laughter. ) BE:ET-ROOT SUGAR. Mr. O'CONNELL then rose to call the attention of the House to the petition of Mr. Hercules Bradshaw, which he had presented on the 7th of May, and which had been printed and placed in the hands of Hon. Members. H the facts of the petition. In Oc tober,st petitioner a had commenced the rea -3e"lld 85 briefly,thestate nufacture of beet-rout sugar at Hilsborough, in the county of Down. He had been for two Years engaged I in the erection of premises, and had ex pended 5,00 01 . for that purpose. He carried on the manufacture for the period of eighteen months, during which period there was no duty upon sugar so prepared. At the expiration of that period a regulation was made by the Government, in ardor to prevent frauds being prac tised in the trade. In conseqnence of that Treasury Mi nute, Mr. Bradshaw had been allowed to alter his pre mises, at a very considerable expense. He continued the manufacture till June 1837, when a resolution was passed by that House, imposing a duty of 245. per cwt., which amounted to a prohibition. Mr. Bradshaw consequently lost the value of sugar in the process of manufacture ; and his loss altogether, in consequence of his being prevented I from carrying on his business, amounted to 16,0001. He thought he had stated a case of very peculiar griev ance to that individual.—( Hear, hear.) A Noble NOTICE OF MOTION. Lord (Lord Castlereagh) opposite, with whom he Mr. CHRISTOPHER gave a notice in regard to (Mr. 0•Counc11) did not agree upon any other topic , the Bill for imposing additional duties, which had ref:2:-. supported the statements of the petitioner. He thought ence, we think to Ireland, but the cYcct of which we i the House was called on to refer this matter to a Corn were unable to hear distinctly. CANADA mittce, as Mr. Bradshaw told him he was prepared to • . prove his ents. There no hance of radshaw B the was case tho M IN r. PAKGTON gave notice that on t h e Bill f or 1 'being drawn state in m tc a precedeut, was as Mr. c CORN-LAWS. The Duke of ARG YLL presented a petition from It.- vertiess against any alteration in the Corn-laws. Lord R A DNOR presented several petitions from Dui - ham, and other places, praying for a repeal of the Cori - laws. The Noble Earl said he would take that opportu nitv, in the absence of a Noble Friend of his, (Earl Fitz william), who had given notice of it notion on the subject of the Corn-laws for Tuesday next, to postpone the me tion till Thursday, the 11th of June. The Earl of ABERDEEN presented several petitions from several places in Scotland against non-intrusion. • The Duke of ARGYLL presented petitions front va rious places in Scotland against the Clergy Reserves Ca nada Bill. The &shop of NORWICH presented a petition from Swaffham, complaining of the alarming destitution from the want of religious instruction. The Marquis of BRE ADALBANE presented peti tions against the law of patronage in Scotland. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from Troubridgc in NS iltshire praying that stock in trade might not be rated. Lord PORTMAN gave notice that to-morrow he should put a question to the Noble Marquis the Secre tary of State for the Home Department, in consequence of seeing a notice of the Bill which had been introduced into the other House of Parliament on the subject. The Duke of RICHMOND thought that the stock of farmers ought to be rated at the same time, and in the same Bill. SPANISH CLAIMS. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a peti tion, signed J. Fox, tiho stated he was the heir-at-law of a deceased officer, a Colonel in the 9th Regiment, and who prayed thQ House to take some measures for obtaining the settlement of the claims of British Officers on the Spanish Government. The Noble Earl read the petition, which was not heard in the Gallery, and said he was be sieged with those claims, and therefore felt bound to ask the Noble Viscount to name a day on which he would state whether the negotiations were brought to a ch se, or whether he must resort to the only course he could pursue, that of movity, an adddress to her Majesty on the subject, that the claims of these unfortunate men might be brought to a close. This petition was only one of a great number he was daily receiving. He felt satisfied the Commission was not satisfactory to the claimants, who complained that while the claims on the Portuguese Go vernment, which the Secretary for Foreign Affairs ad mitted were not half so urgent as the Spanish, met their attention, they were unable to obtain any redress. The Duke of RICHMOND rose to call the attention of the Noble Marquis to a part of the petition which, in his opinion, rendered it e%pedient it should be withdrav;n, it being the rule of that House not to receive petitions which contained any statement of anythin g done by any Peer in that House in detail. There would be great difficulty if persons were allowed to make speeches out of doors and introduce them in petitions. He would suggest the withdrawal . of th<._! petition, that it might be amended. The Marqufs of LONDOND MCI' was willing to withdraw the petition if it was preSSed, but the petition only alluded to a report which he had heard, %‘hich he (the Marquis of Londonderry) did not think was incorrect. The Earl of CL A RENDON said the petition was cloarly out of order, and it certainly was not the 11:st time the Noble Marquis—and so far as he (the Earl of Clarendon) wan concerned he was welcome to do it—had read an;wers in the petitions to the speeches which he had made in that House. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said the Noble Earl was disposed to make assertions which he could nut say was correct. He asked the Noble Earl to state when when be bad done that of which he was accused. The Earl of CL A R ENDO N—l do not remember the day, but such was the fact. Lord MELBOURNE said he had no objection to name a day or to give the answer the Noble Marqu's required ' now. Negotiations were still proceeding, and it was therefore fur the Noble Lord to consider what course he would take on the subject. The Marquis of LONDCP.':DERRY was obliged to the Noble Viscount for his courtesy, which would relieve him from a number of applications on the subject. He therefore gave notice that on the 4th of June he should move that an humble address be presented to her MAjety, preying her Majesty to give immediate directions for the settlement of the Spanish claims. If it should happen that the negotiations were not at that time brought to a close he would postpone the motion ; if they were, he trusted the Noble Viscount would exert himself on the subject. The Duke of RICHMOND hoped that the Noble Mar quis would not have any objection to withdraw the petition he had presented. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY withdrew the pe tition. _ The Earl of GALLOWAY presented a petition from the Presbytery of Kircudbright against the intrusion of Ministers in the Scottish Church. FRENCH CLAIMS. _ Lord LYNDHURST rose. for the purpose of calling the attention of the House and of the Noble Viscount opposite to a petition connected with the due administra tion of justice. He believed that the Noble Viscount, in considering the subject, would feel it his duty to accede to the prayer of the petition. The circumstances which gave rise to it were as follows : In the year 1818 or 1819 a convention was concluded with the French Government by the Noble Duke oho Duke of Wellington), by which a considerable sum of money was to be paid by that Go vernment for the discharge of the claims of British sub jects in respect to losses they had sustained by the confiscation of their property during the revolutionary war in France. According to the...,arxgigements made, Com missioners were appointed for investigating their claims, and an Act of Parliament was passed, by which it was provided that any claimants who were dissatisfied with the deci sions of the Commissioners might have the right of appeal. ing to the Privy Council. The sum allowed by the Go vcrn►nent of France was larger than was neces sary for the payment of the first class of claims, and accordingly it was ordered by the Treasury that under these circumstances the second class of claim ants were placed on the same footing with those of the first class; and that the claims should be investigated, and that they should receive compensation. The Act of Parliament, however, which gave the right of appeal, ap plied only to claims of the first class. It was arranged by the Treasury at a subsequent period, that the claims of the second class should be attended to as those of the first, and that they should equally have the power of appealing to the Privy Council, provided they signed a document bind ing themselves to submit to the decision of the Council. One of the claims of the second class was that of a Mr. Jo seph Warre, or - De Warre, the son of Patrick De Warre, who claimed compensation for estates confiscated in Bur gundy and Champagne. In Burgundy he claimed, in con. sequence of the estate having been purchased by his father ; and in Champagne he claimed as the heir of, his mother, whose property the estate was before hee'Mar riage. His claim was investigated by the Commissioners. —the claim was rejected, end the party afterwards ap pealed, as he was entitled to do, to the Privr Council. The case was investigated before the Privy Council, and, after a full hearing, a Judicial Committee'rescinded the decision of the Commissioners. Nothing could be more precise than the decision ; and it wouletreem that, under the circumstances, the Commissioners had nothing more to do than to institute an inquiry as to the'amount of loss the party bad sustained. While the matter was under judgment, however, the Commission expired, and a new one was appointed in its stead. The former Commission had heard and decided the case in public, but the new Commission adopted a different course. Parties were called en to send in the ,particulars of their claims, but those claims were infest gated in private, without the hearing of Counsel. Under these circumstances an award was made, but the parties thought that they were entitled to more than the award granted them. No greunds for the award were stated, and accordingly the parties ap plied to the COinerossioners of her Majesty's Tre..sury, praying that the 'Commissioners might be called on to state the motives for their judgment. The Commissioners then stated the - grounds ef their decision, and it appeared that they had emitted to give any compensation for a cen siderable portion of the estates in Burgundy, and for the entire of the estates in Champagne. The Commissioners afterwards rectified their award as to the estates in Bur gundy, but adhered to the other part of their opinion. They did so on the grounds, that as the heir was a native of France, the property belonged to the mother, and the children had no claim to it. In consequence of this decision, some of the most eminent lawyers in France were consulted, and they were of opinion that the mother had only a life-interest in the pro perty, and that at her death it should descend to the husband and his heirs. The parties wished to ap peal to the Privy Council against the decision of the Com missioners, but as the Treasury and Commissioners did not send the matter to the Council by way of appeal the case could not be heard. The petitioners now wished that the case might be properly submitted to the Privy Council, and that the matter might not be left .o the decision of the Commissioners and the Treasury. All he was anxious for was that the Noble Viscount opposite would take the prayer of the petition into his consideration. The LORD CHANCELLOR understood that the petition prayed for a rehearing before the Judicial Com mittee of the Privy Council, to which he had not a right. It appeared that the party ought to make his appeal within three months after the adjudication, but in this case five years had elapsed since the adjudication had passed. The information which the Noble Lord had received was not accurate, inasmuch as it differed very much from that which had reached him (the Lord Chancellor), and he had derived his information from official document," The Noble and Learned Lord then went into a detailed statement of the circumstances of the case. They had the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown and of two emi nent Fre nc h lawyers in their favour, and until these opi nions were impugned he did not think the petitioners .1 tould take any steps in the case. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MAY 21. The See 4KEIt took the Chair at Four o'Clock. Mr. BARING brought up the Report of the Chricbton Charities Bill Committee. Mr. LA SCELLE'S brought up the Report of the Committee on the Tadcalter and Halton Dial Road Bill. Mr. C. BRUCE brought up the Report on the Nairn shire Roads Bill. The Report on the Ardrossan and Johnstone Railway Bill was also brought up, and the Bill was ordered to be engrossed. — Captain AL SAG ER presented a petition from Certain individuals, praying to be heard by Counsel against certain Clauses in the Brighton Railway Bill. On the motion of Mr. HODGES the Dartford Naviga tion Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. GREEN brought up the Report of the Committee on the Islip and Stanion Roads' Bill. On the motion of Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL, the Faversham Fishery Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of Mr. T. DUNCOM BE, the Clerk- Gowen improventtntV ordered"to be read a third time on Wednesday next; the order, which stood upon the paper for the third reading on a previous day, having been expunged on accou n t o f an informality, after a few words from Mr. Green. Mr, EASTHOPE presented several petitions against Church Extension. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition for the abolition of Church-rates from a Dissenting Congregation of Birmingham. Petitions against Church Extension were presented by Mr. Hoskins, Mr. George Adair, Dr. Lushington, and Mr. Dennistoun. Petitions in favour of Church Extensir-n mere presented by Colonel Rushbrooke, Mr. Riddle, Mr. Dottin, Mr. Hurt, Sir John Owen, Mr. G. Rose, and Mr. Ha!ford. Mr. BUCK presented several petitions against any alteration in the Corn-laws. Mr. STRUTT presented fourteen petitions against the Copyright Bill ; also petitions against Church Extension, and for the abolition of Church-rates. Mr. LOCKHART presented petitions for the aboli tion of Church patronage. Mr. LASCELLES presented petitions from the West Riding of the county of York in faiour of Church Ex tension. Sir C. B. VERB presented three petitions to the same effect, Sir R. PALMER presented similar petitions. Mr. JONES presented similar petitions from Car mattben. Mr. W. DUNCOAIBE presented eight petitions to the same effect. Mr. HALFORD presented petitions from places in Leicester to the same effect, and a petition from Selkirk, against any further grant to tile college of Maynooth. Mr. BARN EBY presented a petition from a parish in Worcester in.favour of Church Extension. Captain ALSAGER presented similar petitions from places in Surrey. Mr. B AINES presented petitions from various places in the county of York against Church Extension, and for the abolition of Church -rates; also petitions against the Copyright Bill. Mr. — THESIGER presented petitions in favour of Church Extension. Mr. LL ICE presented a petition from Cupar, pray ing for the separation of Church and State. Sir G. STAUNTON presented several petitions from Hampshire, against Church Extension . , and against the present mode of collecting Church-rates. Mr. -HAWES presented twenty petitions from various Dissenting Congregations against Chiirch Extension; also a petition from a poor man named Edward Manning, praying for the establishment of a uniform system of Local Courts for the recovery of small debts, without de lay or expense. Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL presented a petition from Derby against the'Clerei Reserves Canada Bill. Mr. WIL BR AHANI presented a petition from Chester against Church Extension. ACLAND presented petitions from Wales on the sulject of the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill; from .Somersetshire against any alteration in the Corn-lawg, and in favour of Church Extension. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented two petitions from Merthyr Tydvil ; and one from Newcastle-on-Tyne, signed by 4,781 persons, against Church Extension, and praying for the release of John Thorogood. Mr. I'. EGERTON presented petitions from Cheshire in favour of Church Extension. Mr. W. MILES presented two petitions from Somer set in four of Church Extension. Mr. Q. DICK presented a similar petition from Mahlon. Lord HENIKER presented two similar petitions from Suffolk ; also a petition from Suffolk, in favour of the Chimney-sweepers Bill. Mr. VI VIA N presented similar petitions from St. Clares. Lord C. HAMILTON presented similar petitions. Mr. KEAB LE presented similar petitions from Surrey. Mr. HINDL EY presented a petition from the Dissent.. ers of Crown Chapel, Pentonville, London, against any grant for Church Extension. Also a petition from War rington, signed by 1,000 persons against the Irish Regis tration Bill. Mr. DIVETT presented similar petitions from Devon. Mr. DENISON presorted similar petitions from Dis senters of Surrey. Mr. M. PIIILIPS presented a similar petition from the Independent Dissenters of Manchester. Also eight others from thi: county of Lancaster to the same effect. Sir EDWARD SUGDEN presented a petition from sonic place. in Surrey in favour of Church Extension. Mr. E. J. STANLEY presented a petition from some place in Cheshire against Church Extension ; and also a petition against the present Corn-laws. Captain POLHILL presented a petition from Bed ford in favour of Church Extension. Mr. Sergeant TALFO U R D presented a petition from the Protestant Dissenters of Reading against any grant of public money fur Church Extension. Mr. FIT Z . STE Pll E N ENC II presented a petition from 200 inhabitants of London, complaining cf the con duct of the Commissioners appointed under the Anatomy Bill, and praying fc,r the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the working of that Bill, and the. conduct of the Commissioners. Mr. II A YTE R presented a petition from Durham against any grant of public money for the purposes of Church Ex tension. Colonel WOOD presented two petitions from parishes in Brecon in favour of Church Extension. Mr. till lEL presented a petition from a congregation of Protestant Dissenters against any grant of public money for Church Extension. Mr. PAKINGTON presented a petition from some parish in Northumberland in favour of Church Extension. Mr. SHAW presented a petition from some place in Ireland against the Flour Importation Bill. Mr. HOPE presented a petition front some place in Nottinghamshire in favour of Church Extension. Mr. C. LUSHINGTON presented a petition from the Protestant Dissenters of Wiltshire against any fui titer grant of public money for the purposes of Church Ex tension. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Renfrew, pray ing for a repeal of the Corn-laws; also a petition from Dundee, signed by 8,000 householders, against any fur ther grant of public money for Church Extension ; also petitions to the tame effect from King's Lynn and some other place. Lord POWE R. SC 0U RT presented a petition, signed by 200 inhabitants of Bath and its vicinity, and, among them, by Colonel Napier, praying that the House would take some means for the suppression of the National Association of Dublin, the objects of which Association petitioners stated to be seditious. They therefore ' prayed that her Majesty's Attorney-Gcncral should be directed to institute proceedings against politi cal offenders of whatever degree, or that the parties now in prison for sedition should be liberated.—(Cheers from the Opposition benches. ) Mr. HUME wished to ask the Noble Lord if he meant to accuse his lion. and Learned Friend, the Member for Dublin, of treason. Lord PO WERSCO URT said he had merely read the prayer of the petition. Mr. O'CONNELL said that he did not moan to op pose the receiving of the petition, although he thought he might do so. It appeared to him, however, that he should have had notice of the intention of the Noble Lord to present it.—( Hear, hear.) Lord POWERSCOURT—I gave vou notice the day before yesterday. I left a letter on the table for the purpose, and I myself saw the Hon. and Learned Member read it.--( Opposition cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL said that was perfectly true — (Hear, hear)--but he had mistook the signature to the letter, thinking it was Estcourt. He would appeal to the Speaker if he had not spoken to him on the subject at the time.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the allega tions contained in the petition against him, he bed tio hesitation i n say i ng that they were totally false.—(Hear.) . Mr. HUME Presented petitions from Fifeshire, against Church E xtens i on. Lord 'FEIGN MO UTH presented a petition ir, its favour. Mr. HOPE presented a petition from Gloucester, to the same effect. Lord MORPE TH presented pet i t i ons against Church Extuns:cn. Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented several of a similar nature. k . i