The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-22 00:00:00

210 Imptrial l)arlignittni. ROUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, FEBRUARY, 18. PRTITIONS were presented :—for the better observance of the Sabbath, from the Inhabitants of the borough of Derby, by the Duke 4of RICHMOND, and from Wtsbeach, by another noble Lora the immediate abolition of Colonial Slavery. from 14tverfordwrst, and from Milford, by Lord CAWDOR. DISTURBANCES IN IRELAND BILL. Bad GREY moved the second reading of this bill. The Earl of WICKLOW said that in justice to that wretched country, (Ireland) he must lend his assistance to any measure by which it would be relieved from its present situation, and he could not do so better than by supporting the -bill before their lordships. He had joined with others, sometime since, iu noshing for strong measures for the security of life and property; and the vindication of the authority of the laws in Ireiaud, but they had heretofore been answered by a reference to the ordinary powers of the law, and were told by the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, that the government of that' country possessed the power, if necessary, of suspending the habeas corpus act. Instead, however, of any thing of that kind being done, the agitators had been allowed to carry on their proceedings with Impunity, and had even been favored with silk gowns and patents of precedency. (Hear.) Considering these things, he must say he looked upon the change which had so suddenly . "come over the spirit of the dreams" of his Majesty's ministers with something like surprise. [The noble cart then adverted to the elections m Ireland, and said that the contest lay between the Radicals and the individuals called Conservatives.] The Whigs wore every where scouted, and it was with a view to retain the power whieb they now possessed that they come forward with these measures—measures which they know that noble lords at his side oftlit house would, without any reference to party feeling—(laugMer)--support. lie could not, however, refrain from expressing his honor of the doctrines promulgated by a minister of tne Crown iu another place, upon a measure which was not then before their lordships, and which he trusted never would be. (Hear.) He could not but feel deeply at the e ff ort to lay sacrilegious hands upon that venerable fabric—the church of Ireland. Was that dune to please the taste and gratify the eye of the agitator of the day? They would be told, uo doubt, that the policy . of Ineasures of conciliation going along with measures .of coercion was a wise one. He contended that such a line Cif policy was leily holding a prize to -the Irish agitator, for pursuing his disgraceful calling. (Hear, hear.) The first thing they should do was to see that the authority of the law was established, and teach the agitator and his dupes,that lawless violeuoe would 'be put. down; and, this being done, then the government should come forward and grant measures as a boon which, if this course were not adopted, would be said to be forced from them by fear. (Hear.) He would-support the 'measures before their lordships, but he could not but consider the hands in which it was going to be intrusted. It was a fact, that every .party in Ireland exclaimed against the conduct pursued by the Lord Lieutenant of that country. The noble marquess was unjustly treated, and he said so when he (the Earl of Wicklow) brought a charge against the government of Ireland last session. tie thought then, and he now thought that-no one-was more anxious to serve that country than the noble marquess. (Rear.) He hoped the noble lord would be allowed to act for himself. But he was overridden by the secretary for Ireland, and he -must say it was a very bad system to have a secretary for Ireland a cabinet minister. Ha:must necessarily assume a dictation over the acts of the noble lord. (Hear.) He did not say this against the right hon. seerp4ry . for Ireland, but against -the system. He trusted that if th 4 right hon. gentleman were appointed to another place in the councils of the King, that he would be succeeded by . a person, possibly_ not of as great talents but of greater experience. .(Hear.) He trusted that the noble mar quess would be allowed to exercise his own views as to the mode and manner in which the measure before their lordships should be carried into effect. He should give his assent to .the bill. (Hear.) Lord MELBOURNE said he could not allow some of the re marks of the noble earl to pass without observation. He assured their lordships that every effort had been given by the govern ment of Ireland to give effect to the existing laws in Ireland. With respect to the delay of the measure before the house, he must own that he pleaded guilty to the charge of delay. It was nut until all other efforts were made to support the authority of the law that this measure was proposed. The noble earl com plained of measures of conciliation and coercion going hand in hand. He owned that he thought the policy a wise one. The language of the noble earl had been too long used to the people of Ireland. It was used and acted upon in 1786 and 1787. When Mr. Grattan brought forward his measure respecting tithes, coercion was used, but no redress followed (hear, hear), tend the consequence was the present state of things. The noble earl had only done justice to the noble marquess at the head of the government in Ireland; and he only regretted that the noble earl had adopted the course he had, as it would only tend to weaken any _powers which might be intrusted to that noble marquess. With respect to the allusions made to the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, he could assure the -noble earl that no inconvenience such as that adverted to could or did arise in the administration of affairs in England. The Earl of LONG CURD thought that the noble marquess had misgoverned Ireland, and,that by his conduct he was incapacited tom holding the reins of government in that country. He con tended that the Protestants of Ireland had no confidence in the noble marquess, and it was unjust to them that he should be again suffered to go to that country. The Earl of RODEN bore testimony to the necessity of such a measure as that before their lordships being passed into a law. Nothing short of it would do. He had, iu the last session, laid a strong case before their lordships respecting Ireland, but they would not attend to him. He was glad, however, to see that his Majesty's government took shame to themselves. (No, no.) Then they ought if they had not done so. He denied that the -law was vigorously enforced in Ireland, and he contended that the magistrates were not supported. He trusted his Majesty's ministers would not give up any of the provisions of the bill in toe other house, for if they did the peace and tranquillity of Ireland would be in danger. lie could never look' back with out regret to a measure which passed that house in 1829, (the Catholic question ;) for to that he attributed all the misery that had once, and at the present timeaffiicted Ireland. The noble earl (Grey) had himself lately admitted that he- had been griev ously disappointed in the benefits he expected to follow to Ire land from that measure ; and he (Earl Roden) believed that the noble duke (Wellington) by his side was also much disap pointed on that head. lie (Earl Roden) opposed that mea sure from political and religious motives. In the present bill, however, he would most cordially unite with his Majesty's mi 'misters, in the hope that by its application to the evils that now afflicted the unhappy country to which he belonged, they would be enabled to save even the wreck, and keep the vessel a little lonr above water. With respect to the powers to be given ge by aris bill to the Lord Lieutenant, he did not think they were tootxtensive or severe. He differed very widely from the no ble marquess who was, at present, at the head of the Irish go vernment upon political matters, as regarded Ireland, but he had a great regard for the private character of that nobleman, and he (Earl Roden) doubted not that in the exercise of the powers giVen to him by this bill, the noble marquess would be directed by the excellent feelings that belonged to his heart, and that In putting down disaffection he would restore peace aid security to the country. The noble marquess mig h t feel -Assured, that to attain thi, desirable object, he should have his ('Earl Roden's) best assistance as a magistrate. He could not sit down without saying a word in deprecation of the measure respecting the church of Ireland that had recently been intro duced in the other house of Parliament. He felt convinced, that that measure would be the ruin of the Protestant church in that country, and would speedily be followed by equally disas trous consequences to the established church in England. The Marquess of CLANRICARDE, said, that he could not avoid alluding to one part of the noble earl's observation, or suffer it to pass unnoticed : he meant the disappointment of which the noble earl had spoken with reference to the Catholic relief bill. He knew not what hopes might have been entertained by the noble duke (Wellington) opposite, but he (the NI arquess of Clan ricarde) felt that the main feature of that measure, and the chief grounds upon which it had been passed by the legislature, were tally satistied.thul satisfactorily established; he meant the justice of the cause itself, in giving to a great porti on o f t h e King's subjects their undoubted rights to enjoy the full benefit of the British constitution. (Cheers.) The evils that afflicted Ireland at present did not by any means, as the noble earl supposed, arise from the passing of the Catholic relief bill, but they arose on the contrary from the too long delaying that measure of jus tice (Cheers,) and refusal to listen to the voice of wisdom that had so long and loudly called for it. It had been said that much evil had resulted from the want of proper and sufficient vigour iu the administration of the existing laws in Ireland, by the pre snit govermnent. In reply to that, he could say, that fifteen mouths ago the part of Ireland with which he was best ac quainted was in an extremely disturbed state, but by a vigorous application of the powers of the law, tranquillity was restored, ts - aa that poitiou or•lreland was now in a perfectly peaceable state. He hoped that in the operations of the present bill, that care would be taken that it should not be made an instiument for sowing dissension iu the hands of the tithe collecting people in that country. 'lie hoped that it would not be used to gratify Lost class or faction. Ile supported - the bill, Lecome hoped THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. t woahinot be made a measure iu the hands of any faction, but wouldhe honestlynsed to restore peace and security to the people. The Duke of WELLFNGTON said, that it was now a matter of 'ittle cemparatire importance by what means the disturbances Set Ireland 'had been enganderesl or to what individuals blame might be attached as having been instrumental in causing them. It was sufficient now to know that the evil existed, and that the state of things in Ireland at present called for prompt and efficient remedies. (Cheers.) The house should therefore not hesitate tati4Laptony.meanstitat wowld enforce the authority of the laws in that country, and whatever measures were neces sary for that purpose the government should have his hearty support in forwarding. (Cheers.) lie had witl un a former night that he thought some parts of the bill would be difficult of execution, and he had some time been -considering those points, and some amendments had suggested themselves to his mind, which he had written down, and which he would put into the hands .of the Itoble earl (Grey) _apposite, for his consider - fig's before going into -committee on the bill. (The noble duke here handed the paper on which •he had drawn out his amend ment across the table to Earl -Grey.) One of his 'amendments had particular reference to entuts inPlials that Cerg be 4 ,#^ tablished by the bill. The King at present had the power un der the. Mutiny Act of ordering courts martial, and it would be well to consider that subject attentively in the committee, Which tie hoped would he appointed for an early day. He should now say nothing further beyond an expression of his opinion that the present measure was calculated to effect great good, and he hoped it would be forwarded in a proper spirit through their lordships' house. (Cheers.) Earl -Gear said, that be had to return his best thanks to the noble duke who had duet sat down, for 'the Taper he had the confidence of pia eingin his hands. It was his (Earl Grey's) most anxious wish to improve the measure be 'had proposed to :the house, :awl snake it as :perfect as possiLle. The twirl° -duke. had very properly •vaptl Ins support of the bill upon the neees-. sity that oceasioned)it,„nd on no other grounds could such a measure for the suspension of the constitution be defended. He (Lord Grey):hopea that the house 'would adopt the advice of the noble duke and pass the measure in a proper spirit ; that party heat would fur this . reason he -laid aside, and that the so ber, steady, and patriotic -feelings.e,fthe house would be brought to bear en -so importaut a subject in their disuussion ; that they would deem it as a measure of painfttlAceessitiy,and sanction , ft only after a full and calm AtiliberAtion. It was a measure un dertalenhy the goveininent for the sole purpose of re-establish ing _the auttiatity. nff the low., without ivluch there was .11D .safety for either goverammut or people; for there was no greater ene my to the people's liberties than the unlawful abuse of them. IFe'had-merelyrisen to express 'his thanks - to 'the noble auks opposite for the comaliating tone andnianner in which he had spoken of-the government and•for the - document he had so can didly put into Ihis 'Grey's) funids.' 'Ever,y 'consideration shottla be given 'to the Ineature, toltnike it as effectual as pos sible, and its duration.as.sinitt as•the ..nature of the evils it was intended to remedy - would admit O. 'Ain IBM was thou 'read t secciiril time, and 'ordered to be ,cominittedloamorsow (Otis-Atty..) -Lord -Fg.nEt , ‘nottouGti 4vi 4hetl 'to know , from the nOble.earl opposite if it was the intention of 'the ffovernment to .renew the '.1)111 otlast Teat, 4o eomt►elxhe payment , o f tithes ;in Iroland. unit it Was 4heintnntion , ofthe government to have the bill in question renewed. After a )few •words,from Lord fift 7 mt , otto and 4he Earl of ELDON, which were quite inauAitile an ithelaldery,iiheZunacy Bill was read a•thirditime, and-passed. 11.11.1EgID AY. •Prerrrioris were -presented-.—•for -the -regulation of -the hours of labour of Children employed in 'FActories, from Idle, in the West of Yorkshire, by the garl of I,toppi ;—by the same noble lord, from 'N orth Preston;for Yhe'immetliate'abolitidivdf - Negro 'Slavery ; against trading on the Sabbath, from the Parish of Chelsea, from a place in Yorkshire, from a parish in Leicestershire, and from the borough of Leicester, by the Bishop of LONDON. the amendment which related to ringing . of bells. Ile believed, however, there were but few instances in whicii chapels were furnished with bells. The Earl of WrextoW,--1 said that the practice inas not general. Earl Ganv observed, that with respect to that part of the clause which referred to the lighting of bonfires, there was al ready a statute in existence, for the prevention of smuggling, the provisions of which relative to the lighting of signal fires Welt hereafter be intrcikced. Lord BERESFORD was of opinion that this amendment was of considerable importance. lire-signals made in the county of Wicklow could be observed all over the neighbouring county of Wexford. Large assemblies of riotous and ill-disposed persons were by such means collected together in a few hours. A noble Lean thought that a provision should be introduced to interdict the blowing of horns for the purpose of calling the pepple tosether for mischievous purposes. Earl GREY read au extract from the statute, which forbade the making of fire-signals to vessel; and observed, that this subject should tie considered before the bringing up of the report. After a few words from the Earl of HARROWBY— earl GREY ORid, that if the noble lord would withdraw his amendment, a clause embodying his suggestions should be in troduced on the bringing up of the report. Amendment withdrawn. On the clause being read relative to the formation of courts martial— Earl GREY observed, that he had paid due attention to the suggestions which had been offered by the noble duke on the preceding night. One of these was, that the sentences of courts martial should not be carried into effect until they met the appr.aval of the Lent-Lieutenant or of the lords justices of Ireland. The second was, that an officer of a certain rank should preside over such courts-martini. He had no serious objection to either proposition ; he only feared, with respect to the first, that iu some cases an inconvenient delay would be caused in waiting for the approval of a sentence. it might be observed, that naval courts-martial in general .pronounced sentence, and immediately proceeded to execute them, whilst the sentences of military courts-martial were delayed until they were approved and confirmed by the competent authority. Now, he had never beard that any inconvenience had resulted from the practice pursued in the former case. The object of those who framed the bill was, as the clause expressed it, to secure " the speedy . and effectual punishment of the several offences mentioned in this act." The Duke of WELLINGTON said that the object he had in view was to confine, as nearly as possible, the duties that officers in the army were, under the provisions of this measure, called upon to perform, to those Which they might be called 'upon to discharge at military courts-martial for the trials of officers and soldiers; iu short, that they should try none but uuder'She orders of the lord-lieutenant, and should cause the execution of no sentence 'they might pronounce, until its con firmation by the lord-lieutenant should be first had and obtained. (Hear.) It was true that in the cases of naval courts-martial it 'was' not necessary that the same ceremony of review and confirmation should be gone through, but the practice and course was otherwise in the army; and, referring their lordships to the terms of the act of Parliament under which courts-mar tial assemble at all, he must say, that the greatest care should be exercised before these extraordinary powers were granted. ,It was under these circumstances that he had suggested the amendment in thii respect to the noble earl opposite, and he trusted he would acquiesce in the propriety of its adoption. He felt it not only important that officers should distinctly know their duty, but -that there should he kept such a check upon them as would ensure its efficient discharge, and therefore it was that he suggested the propriety of the lord-lieutenant's reading and confirming the finding . and sentence of the courts martial to be held under the provisions of this measure. The Earl of Wicklow regretted one effect which would re sult from the adoption of the amendment proposed by the noble duke, because the result would be to retard the execution of the sentence of the court-martial. This was the more to be re gretted, inasmuch as nothing (it was well known) had contri buted more to restore peace and tranquillity, when similar cir cumstances had called for similar measures to be enforced in Ireland, than the promptitude and celerity with which pri soners convicted were sent off from the courts-martial to the ships destined to bear them to confinement. The Logo CHANCELLOR agreed with the noble earl who spoke last, that it would greatly decrease the efficacy of the present measure if the execution of the sentence din not follow as soon as possible its announcement. But the operation of the pro posed measure would be this—that the party charged would be 'brought to trial, and the trial for a time closed, though not Closed in reality, but closed only by a cessation of the proceed ings for a day or two, and though the trial had concluded, it 'would only be as if an adjournment had taken place, and the real conclusion of the proceedings would be when the confirm ation of the sentence by the Lord-Lieutenant was received, and then the.party would be broughtup, and the sentence so con firmed pronounced, and would then be immediately carried into effect. The clause, as amended, was then put, and ordered to stand part of the bill. The,elaventh clause regulating the constitution, powers, and .authority of the courts-martial for the trial and punishment of all offences described in the,act,,and committed m counties in Ireland which might be proclaimed to be in a .state of iusubor dinatioo, having beenput, Earl eruYproposed , an amendment, as suggested by the no ble duke opposite, to the effect•that no officer should be compe tent to bold the office of president of any court-martial who held JL.commission below the rank of a field officer. After some observations front Lords ELLENBoaoupp, and. WYNFORD, and the Duke of WELLINGTON, the clause was re luodelled for the purpose of enacting that " the proceedings to be had under this act shall be conducted in the same way as those of Courts-blartial held under the, provisions of the mutiny act. The clause so amended was agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the bill. Some other amendments were made in several of the subse quent clauses, which we deem it unnecessary to particularise until we can lay the whole bill in its amended state before our readers. The house then resumed, And the report was ordered to be received on Thursday. In answer to a question from the Duke of Cumberland, Earl GREY said, that the bill, as amended, would be printed and be,ready for delivery to noble lords to-morrow. Adj ourned to Thursday. DISTURBANOES IN •IRELAND:I3.UL. On the order of the day , for thair lordships going into com mittee on the bill for-the 'better siwpression of , disturbances in Ireland, Lord TEYWIIAM•said it was his intention, for-the puspose-of guarding against any improper use being made of the-powers bestowed upon. the Lord Lieutonantiof -Ireland -dry this bill, to move au amdadment, whereby it should be provided that procla mations declaring places in a state of disturbarioe.under this act be issued under the lands and seals-of not less than six .privy counsellors. Lord , CooNouaay said,-it ought tole shownAo the people of Ireland that, while-the-high-court of Parliament-was determined to put down acts of insubordination -in that country, they were also anxious to do it with as little infringement of-the ordinary law of the land as possible. Out Of the 32 counties in Ireland, some six or seven of them only were-in a disturbed state,. That state of disturbance could have been put an-cud-to if, at the out set, the magistrates -had acted -as , b eeame -them. When , the -dis turbance broke out-in the county of-Carlow, where he had some property, and in the-adjoining counties of lililkenny - and Queen's County, he, in reply -to-some magistrates who -wrote tolim-for advice, suggested -that-they should arm the farmers and others 'as special-constables, -and by doing.SO, they-would-enable them to withstand-the attacks of the lawless-incendiary. The -magi .strates, however, would only select 'the constables , from .those persons whom they •liked, -and -refused -to take -them -from-the -entire of -the-persons paying rates-and:liable-to -serve , au juries. The consequence-of this-was,-that the-disturbances hadatow -risen to a fearful height, and could only be put -down-by - strong and -efficient-measures, -Had •Sir H. Hardinge continued in-office as secretary for Ireland, he thought , thatamich , good would-have resulted to Ilse .country, - for he -had-introduced-into iParliament no. less- than-19.bills, which,:if carried - lnto-exeeution,- would-have -produced -the most beneficial results. He had -no doubt but his thlajesty's ,present•ministors -would have introduced.-siteh -measures hofore -now, -had_ they -not -Len engaged--in placing upon a firm basis the new °hurter of the constitution which some-time agoreeeived Aheir lordships' assent. -(Hear,-hear.) 'He -was -opposed to the domiciliary visits -permitted under this bill, which he knew to have been -on tomer -occasions productive of most vexatious and-tyrannical-proceedings. The conduct of government in two recent instances—that of the or der to the-police .not to afford _protection .to certain itinerant methadistpreachers intruding themselves into the chapels in the county of Clare, and that of the dismissal of a policeman for haying posted,,npon a chapel door in the north, an orange notice,—was what:it-ought to be, and.he could assure the house that it would have have a considerable effect in restoring.poace. Ile would confidently say that Ireland might be as well.go yerned-as.any country in the world, it the people had fair play. If the:gentry Of Ireland would unite steadily, and firmly .abide by . one another,—it'-they would administer justice fairly and strictly,--rthat country would :anon become happy and pros perous. -The Marl of Wicx tow said. he could not allow the noble lord to-reflect, as he had done, ou the magistrates of Ireland, with out giving-his statement the most decided contradiction. He confessed that he did noi.know so much of disturbed times as the noble lord. He was well, aware that the nelde lord bad taken au active part in those disturbed times; but, whatever the experience of the noble lord might have been, this he would say, that a more high-minded body of ,usen than the Irish ma gistracy did not, exist. The noble lord had said that the magis trates would not act with him. (Hear, hear.) Uponinquiry, it might, perhaps, be -found that the -magistrates were not to blame on that account. (Hear, hear.) The Marquess of WEST)MATH observed, that the plan advo cated by the noble lord (Cloncurry)—of arming the small farm ers, had tried and failed. That he knew to be the fact, and, therefore, he feit that his, noble friend - had:been inisled.in his inquiries. The noble lord wished that:all the farmers in Queen's County should be armed. Let arms be put into their :hands, and then their lordships would see (as the magistrates there had anticipated) how they would use them. The-noble lord appeared to have a correspondence with..anumber of priests from whom he derived his information. Now it appeareu to be questionable how far-such information pught to be relied on. Lord CLONCURRY denied that-he kept up any correspondence with priests. He took the statements-relating to the itinerant methodist preachers from the public newspapers. Lord TEYNHAM'S motion was negatived. On the motion of Earl Gal:voile house then :resolved itself into committee on the bill before- unused. On the 7th clause being read,. relative :to the .proclaiming of disturbed districts. -- --------- rose and stated, that provision ought to be made in this clause to prevent the lighting of bonfires. These, in themselves, were innocent,.bnt they were often used as signals by which large and mischievous bodies o f peopl e wei e assembled. The ringing of bells for the purpose of collecting large assemblages of the people ought aim to be forbidden. His lordship then moved, " That in any district proclaimed under this act, no church or chapel bell shall be rung, except at the ordinary time of .divine service; and that no - bonfire shall be made or lighted. individuals conducting themselves contrary to this provision to be deemed guilty of a misdemeanour, and to be liable to be tried and; punished by any court constituted under this act." The Earl of WicKoow said, that by the law of the lapd, no place of religious worship, except a Protestant church, had any right to have a bell at Ile believed, however, that some chapeis•had liells.attaelicil to them latterly, but still it was con trary tO•thulaw ; and he _feared that, if this amendment weie agieed to, in its present foul!, it-would seem to legalize the use of belts in chapeis., to which he could not agree. Earl L.:1:1:y observed, that he had no obje(.tion to that part of HOUSE OF COP/ PIONS. MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18. Upwards . of 20 members took the oaths and their seats. Election Petitions, against the returns for the boroughs of Knares boroug:h; Launceston, and Stafford, were presented, and ordered to be taken into consideration on the 14th of - March ; and,against the re turns for. the city of Norwich and the county of Longford, to be taken into consideration on the 19th of March. Petitions were presentedfrom the city of Kilkenny, complaining of abuses in the corporations thereof, by Mr. Fit ;—from Robert Franks, a member of the Merchant Tailors' Company of the City of 'London, complaining of abuses in that body, by Mr. 'HILL ;—for a more strict and holy observance of the Lord's-day t from the Town Council of Dundee, from theyarish of St. Andrew, in that town, and from the:Presbytery of-Perth, by Mr. Jourisox ; from -Elgin, by Col. HAY ; from the city of York, by Mr. DUNCOMBE ;--against the asses sed Taxes, from 1000.. persons, inhabitants of Kidderminster, by Mr. GODSON ; ' from 'Wolverhampton, by Mr. FREER; from the City of 'Lyndon, by Sir JOHN KEY ;—against tithes, from several parishes in Monmouthshire, by Mr. WILLIAMS; from Ardagh, in Cork, by Mr. Fergus O'Corixort ;—,for the immediate abolition of negro slavery, from a place in the West Riding of Yorkshire, by Mr. STRICKLAND ; from the city of Durham, by Mr. HARLAND • from Rochdale, by Mr. FENTON ; 7 -for the Repeal of the Legislative Union , from Navan, in the county of Meath, by - Mom:au O'ConsaL ; for restricting the hours of labour in Factories, from Idle,44Yorkshire, by Lord, ASHLEY, Mr. EWART presented a petition :in favour of a national system of , education, And in favour of the system of Messrs. Smith and Dolier, signed by • the mayor of Liverpool, several of the magistrates, and many members of the different religious denominations in that town. The hon. member said, that as His Majesty's ministers had already adopted, in the last session of Parliament, a plan of national educ a ti on with regard to Ireland, he trusted that a very short time would elapse until a - similarly , general system .were adopted in England. It was with great-satisfaction he observed that there. was a notice upon the subject from an hon. friend of his upon the hooks, and he would only add, impressed as he was that the best tuode of diminishing . crime consisted in the diffusion of education, that to such a =lron he would give his cordial support. NOTICES OF 'MOTIONS WERE orviari.:—By MY. HALL, annuity to the King of the Belgians. Feb. 21 ; by Lord ALTIIORP, commutation of the tithes bill. deferred ,to Feb. 26 ; by Mr. Locn, Scotch burgh police, March 12 ; by Sir J. KEY, repeal of the house and window duties, March 22 ; by Col. HAY, committee, on Scotch excise laws, March 26 ; by Mr. J. GRATTAN, condition of the Irish peasantry, March-29 ; by-Idr. C..BuLLER, evidence in controverted elections bill, April 25 ; and another, as to disputed points -of law at such elections, fur the same day ; by Colonel TonEuris,-repeal of taxes which lower the rate of profit upon capital, or which Are-paid out of the wages of labour, May 2 ; by the same, gentleman, committee on the commercial policy of the country . , May ; and by Mr. A. JOHNSON, clauses in the Church of Ireland reform bill, " that any surplus that remained over, after paying -for the services of the incumbents, shall be devoted to the purposes of general education.and charity in Ireland, and also that the grant to the Catholic college of- Maynoeth shall be discontinued." (" Hear, hear," from 'Mr. O'Connell and several of the Irish ineurbers,) TAXATION. Lord ALTIIORP moved the order of the day for bringing up the report of the ethuntittee of supply.—The order having been read, • kr, (pc s ea °NEEL!. rose to address the house. I _ , _ __, ..., , n ‘OO O ssuvoured to direct its sympathies towards th se e , rence of expression,—indeed, he felt far toe ----"s eiis l!Y, unhappy, ill-fated Ireland, he never I tf ee ell 'uos as at that moment. He would most cat Mr. COBRETT conceived that the ancient practice was 4. 'need the redress of grievances before- the house vote d su I s : ad ee ling in mere vituperation. He had on a f and therefore he for one could not suffer the house to ge octh e use of the terms " brutal and sanguinary" committee the he had claimed redress for the grieran c et se,:, a ddress it: answer to the speech from the a al longer apply to it the language of i fleeted with the inequality of taxation. The laws con, sv ':I having since obtained the sanction of t with this subject had been made by the nobility and the I ° - ,, pr e la the proceedings of ministers to proprietors, and were the most oppressive; it was obserf i j lt sent object was far other than attempting to t that they always took care to exempt themselves frow ri j .. rt, l esmr „ e operation, and, as a body, were the most unjust legislar_ te s a4°4...Use injuries were so deep, that to denounce ever had existed in any country. What he had to st' n s ea've language would deprive grief of its dign not mere assertion, but facts, which he would prove, A 0 % .: s t . t.o address the house in reference to the th arguments, but by a reference to acts of Parliament, an e u st ~s 7 s of ministers so as to be known to belong did not, before he sat down, substantiate and c o n vince th ''s; t l,,teed by his accent. He would speak as he of the tyranny and gross partiality between the taxation v', t i::', 4 id feel it his duty to do if ministers threat( rich and the poor man, he would surrender all claim to ter,l B j_liople of England or of Scotland of the bens session of common sense. The right hon. secretary f.er s , su r titutiug in their stead the most iron and rE Meas.) He would speak as he shot land hactsaictihat a government must be feared before I% fib` e ' r sos. be loved. The act to which he was about more espeel n s cherries of Englishmen were threatened with des refer could only inspire hatred,—he meant the StamP A l t at s tud feel if outlawry were declared against the the 55th George 111, from which it was scarcely necess i i , A otiand, as if either were about to be banded him to do more than read extracts, without match coralo' ci t et, lt,ny countrymen his own. The taxes imposed by this act, including the c o , i, 411 Is military officers, provided they "have bt collection, amounted to little less than eight m illi ons a ye i riv e service, and have attained the age of 21." , to the tender mercies of which 'the nobility and landed proprietors paid nothing's i s :, comparatively tranquil temper would he addr tiztlareatened by the King's ministers--measu while they bore no part of this burden, had taken especisi s o q,,to e , obtain their ear in pointing out in their tr to make it heavier and heavier a s it d escen d e d in its oper a their tv.` 4 .,tr hideous deformity, themeasures with whit i de pr r.rri Englishman must feel that death would upon the humbler classes. The legacy duties on persons' ) o perry began at one and ended at ten per cent. From duties freehold property was entirels , exempted. Thud th e v vlug him, as they would,, of all the rights of o estates of the nobility were exempted, but the father or o pe r la sh nest slave . ry. (Hear.) Yes, though an Irisi who might possess a small funded or other personal pre a s th at , —the iron of despotism had not so eater could not give it even to s child without subjecting it to s ee l k s , he did not bitterly hate slavery, and death The probate duty on any sum exceeding £2O was two per the lov er of liberty he denounced the cruelty—i when it amounted to 20 or 30 thousand pounds, this d ut) (1 1 ,I (.l l 7,l ( l ' i k e e diless—of the policy pursued so long tot only 30s. per cent., and as the amount became greater th!, ) , 1 ~ hit was now endeavoured to crown by . am became less ! They might laugh at this, but he would ash j Tiett altogether of the protection of the British h. was this justice ? Would the country laugh with theut: 4 4 r thatY.',were told that the ministers stood so well wi hon. baronet had asked him to bring forth his rnage'" tt th e taey could count on a strong majority; so um projectanswer, he had only to say he had no prele s s bring forward, but would like to know why that hon. bs' ) - i ', lees that ministers, who had already done so a had not paid, when he came into possession of his proper ) )vie w hi h ear ud i'—nee in the uprightness of their intex t w° °-- not seek for such extraordinary power years ago, the sixty thousand pounds, the sum it ought to a Il e e ° effecting more good for that country. I been charged with; supposing the tax to be impartially le` h i thei, °4l, l wish to see their claim to despotic pee had to borrow that sum, and paid interest on it from tha c ep If he had'paid this sum 30 years ago, the nation would not s i Is ae. l 3 ast rep o They have proposed two good measures—s The duty on conveyances under £2O was 10s., or 2ts per,f,J ilet,stisi doings.towards Ireland. Let us see wl and one respecting corporations. He wa under two hundred thousand pounds only one thousand po'i or half per cent. Thus the poorer man paid 20 times as s t s hat 4 their measures—it was a boon to Ireland, as the richer man, who escaped almost scot free. The - at l ilo vihe farther • besides that its beneficent operatic ( PA o f a t so far as the abolition of the church cc leases was equally oppressive. It might be said these t t o were done in a hurry. He (Mr. Cobbett) had no don I 1 ha le __ with the monstrous church establishment, that these thing were done by night, for they never could ai i: trii e ;Or where it now is—in all its ignominious g il eete ( Y , ProspeCtive ; it relieved no other existing been done by day. They duty on a mortgage of £25 lc 0 he Ik, at he had met the announcement of the meat If the sum be twenty thousand pounds the duty was only s i eii,„.!,tiot disposed to retract a letter of his appn duty of four pounds per cent. on the poor, and two shillio? jiii'l`" tendency ;it was too seldoin that such op] cent. on the rich man, and he would ask, were they wh ° 3 4 l tts r g measu res o f ki n d ness towards Ireland were posed and passed these duties honest men ? An anal, •6'eated that the abolition of the vestry ces £lO pad r was subject to stamp duty of flit. sa ne if hit ,t,il Ireland. Ile would go further, and say, I yearonly £25, instead of £2OO, and were granli l l she lo: In £lO,OOO, or any greater sum it only paid the same. i's. 0 1 he ' vie . aU• Stated. . But no other burden or grie exchange for an amount of two pounds was subject to y lalie poor V d h a greater extent than the noble lo e sY the proposed church reform, and th, of one shilling, and the largest sum on any bill was shillings. Wh) , should the needy tradesman be snbje.co ;t1 , 1 ,,e „ es dby it. Then why, it might be asked P ei / ( 4 1,4 14 an's pigs and his tenth . potato would this impost, why-not keep up the proportion upon all i . 04 o '.o s dvet?ing so warmly approve of it ? Because This disproportion might have arisen from oversight or inet'd tea ~_Planct. p ie , he could not attribute it to any but interested motives, tliKa ,:stalinnied in that house and elsewhere, that the the poor man one pound per cent. meddle rich sixpence 0. 1. "; t ;be snment was far too massive and costly for t (hear,) because it admitted what pence on the same kind of instruments. The henourable, P i s pri , T t rilual then noticed the inequality on life insurances, and sae? vrt s east twice too large. (Hear, hear.) . E wants, of its members—according former legislators might have been fox-hunting squires, or,r, i a be treasureees, recognized an admirable principle lords unacquainted with business generally, but in these 1' . ',,0 at it4 "i`it i not shrink, namely, that where there wen they had taken good care of themselves, for the duty on 8 ;0 Th 'est ah praisement of fifty pounds was 2s. 6d., and on five hilios they .. "'t he, therefore, hailed it with satisfeeti :,,,te, was to be no spiritual receiver of tithes pounds was only 155., and above that sum, up to a million, 4 1, ey eiie admission of these excellent principles of c only amount to £l. Had he (Mr. Cobbett) seen in ther k t . as, y t ? 1 1 , st lord at the head'of his Majesty's government any inteo, 2_ors e(l4 ° , web forms and injunctions as they please' taking off one farthing of taxes of any description he shod . .o fis ts id invest their ecclesiastical commississio - not be eluded, and the measure would p have made this exposition; instead of doing this, be sa" e s s t i ,°o4 ben efit e (and he was anxious that this shou prepared and determined, even at the point of the bay o D o l Clieli the than might be apparent on tl enforce them if necessary. In one instance, however, be_ s a s s e re m e plan of corporation reform was before th admit that the stamp duties were levied impartially, he V 'he hi u tO bestow upon it every praise to which it those charged on apprentices indentures. These descent'? itaattnly state might, perhaps, laugh at what he 1 proportion to the premium paid; but then it must be obsv headot 4esi.te f k to declare that he hoped to see the it, because they seldom became apprentices, andwere mos'ssi s ack at 'e government which had dared to bi that the sons of lords, baronets, or parsons, were not affect ; 0 rate to those measures, ne verthel monly disposed of in other ways. The auction duty 0 1 , 1 , 1 f&,,ad, to _Outrageous' violation of all law and just and jewellery was 7d. in the pound. Property of this leitie s tii `-:! th e e t t l r i i t swer for his conduct to the ,justly indigna rally belonged to the rich and noble, but every other Ver. :„L .was fs s &I , e mpire, (Repeated cheers from the property belonged to the tradesman, however poor, was 07. ' 4 .11 i st cos,' •lasulkd t 'louse that evening, to tell the mint 5 per cent., except in cases of distress for rent or tithes', , _ ld 40 , , a reformed Parliament—and Ma se the noble were again protected. " No, you may tax the° 'attetion'ftia)o m istaken—that a reformed Fullest's tradesman, but you must not touch the property of my 0 , ei a h r c°l l e t, Bu sliension of all law and would indig the parson." Would a reformed parliament sit in tn— and tolerate the continuance of these things ? He mill , ° he 0-e w a :* Such was the object he then propos' them to take these things into consideration ; . and wouldJo, ( i tgli4, a ;,,much m ore anx i ous to elicit the sentil fore move, " that on the let of March this house do ta se e -'oey t o i'L Scotch members respecting the props its consideration the tendency and effects of the several. s iow , let It Ireland of ministers, than expri t t4t 'eahl w " ere a peaceable and censtitutional parliament imposing the stamp and auction duties." 4 to a 1 07 t. be understood that if that atrocious I Dr. BA snwns seconded the motion, and expressed !. ply , lid , the that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would repeal the expressed eery ie seer s sPersonal freedom—may be imprisoned glass, which he had said that he would propose in a rew t liy red °, the Lord Lieutenant or the Irish Secre People of Ireland will be liable tc Parliament. ~... ', l -sn' tog e r t es e s Whatever, if imprisoned unjustly, for Lord Atrtione admitted, that the duties of which ssw iji i'ay, it de . to 'petition for redress for their gnevan gentleman complained, were heavier on small than lan, s l io thi s t e o peroled on the mere caprice of the Iris' sections, on which there was a less per centage p a id in p, , stollen religious minds was well worthy of eon , Lion to their amounts. The hon. gentleman would fill t °l. thi s °,. a strictly religious meeting as incurring the same rule was generally observed, because the gre9. ~l l e, if '' But even these provisions were not a of transactions to Which these duties referred, were of the sw ,eauseroPossible, still more atrocious behind—hi amounts. ' With respect to a duty on real property, if ° e l l' t M. W r changing the venue. i l enn. ._ correct in statiug per cent. had been imposed upon it, in the course of a s p"ltl '''e ri g jeNx rose to order. He did not attempt years the whole of it would have passed through the Pitd , teat ttr , win• gentleman so long as he confined hit the crown. The stamp duties were now under consideV,d th e i. upon the general policy of ministers, but with a view to an alteration of them, and he put it to the rot Z,itittr e „ L iut hon. Speaker whether it was not di whether during the last two years it had been possible 0,401 hoses, ' ;° the rules and usages of Parliament to this subject forward? Some of the lower stamp dun 0 ""lis e. ° a measure not yet under the consider et! loost E c i thought too , but the scale proposed by the bon. O p ilr, Ode ° Wear.) man, he should object to altogether. Although the stsw e er , t tlti ar b i ,'?Nriar.r. had not specified a single deta ties did press heavier on the smaller than they did on the Il se . i rai nesters, he was merely referrinf to the propos mercantile transactions, they could not be said to affect I ijiiesp (" Order," "Chair.' ) housing population. (They do.) Perhaps they mighl o t te 1 pi l i i ER said that the right hon. gentleman indirectly, because if they press on the employers, they s. 1 : 0001 some degree the employ Cd. He did not mean to ques e ti . ,, en „R .. i s j . _ and. more inconvenient to the despatch 1 correctness of the hon. gentleman's facts, but the ii3P l- . 4 , l . ltti v ' e s, than to discuss the details of a measure which he drew from them. 1 1E 1 hi: t t ,3 4 ,e‘ Q tY before the house, but the question Ni Mr. O'CONNELL said he thought that the noble le tie nev sl 134bappheable to the observations of the leas strengthened the arguments advanced by the hon. ges ii id s?,,' s N te rr n• (Hear.) The great difficulty which ' The case being made out, he hoped the noble lord we . '„ set.,. e t N et rul with in discussions like the present was, that nothing could 1 point a committee at once, and not talk of his ele'Teoun s4at s , line between general comments on wha which it appeared h e i n t en d e d t o l a y o n the table oft n, r i, zsQt matter of notoriety . through publicity, ant The shilling paid by the poor man was equal to the 0 ul eralie,,i tal t 'le, e. a minute criticism of the details or pr. by the rich. • He would, however, suggest to the bon' ea t, a' sad I ID t, ) ,,',Nbich, as not yet before the house, tl the propriety of withdrawing his motion for the pre' re,,• gooq'glal'2oguizance.. Much must be left to t.l bringing it forward at some future time. dor Aark taste of the speaker himself, and he to 6- Pl'e of M. HUME was about to suggest to the hon. ember to b e s seisveetie the right hon. gentleman would have that course, and substitute for it another, which tat b o o' oft / learned member for Dublin from ti framed as so have his resolittiOrrprnitto,-uud put in r " " , w 4 il . hi s o , s gu, srd in the remainder of his address. ( of every member of the house, who would then come prep °Old t , oe • b Whi st che e k •.sa.a. said he was sure reproof so milt to discuss the subject. _ e u rm h e 'um, if even disposed to forget the rul Mr. D. W. IttliVEY conceived that the motion oh s _ b e h,_ as , -/c4 va : U°t• He would not speak in reference friend was plain and straightforward. If they wereju be a " ri„. l e pobt.‘at, on -, Past or prospective, of ministers, but same as the former House of Commons, they would a des- st at ee e s „' ait occasion when they asked £3,0( generate and -corrupt body. If they'were -reformed is r \ti th e ° -eY to be intrusted to their man well as in word, there would be a greater show in fee"' i : 41 .9, The g t o,Otuls on which he refused them hit . . equality of justice. °'sit bid eu,ji he , woeld not confide the public In Mr. ROBINSON said, that since he had had the h0n0r., t ,,.. j. et _ 4 the o - Propose& te thaugethe venue of trio scat in that house, he had made several attempts to cau.:, W A . .2 4 .tx btt , recottb e t , , . 3 , ~. , *oat leo in t.,e revolutionary rs tention to the unequal ties of taxation that prevailea is'bjee, ;.eiee3,..ithica cost, us America ? kle ‘ s °Lad country. This was not the best form in which the. sn of, ~ell use, l - ve nue, They removed the trial of offer might be brought forward. The answer of the .noble s r2; o o 7 i:‘,4l of 'ls to the mother country,.and the result "at not one that would be satisfactory to the country. -"Z o o!, tr,lrever`i:nweti9an independence. Something infi suggest to the house that, instead of going into a coni„iii, oa t!oi, oh to , 4s intendector the Irish. When they the stamp duties, they should go into the subject ot, : ax atio!, ,;: b i.e .. trial, he as rt., ;. - s what tort of triletittel was their guilt generally. He observed that the present system oi s ' une r F s , t4 lete ss !!, 0 pied ? Forsooth, by . a majority of could not be upheld much longer, and no other nat iec tioY, s „ , tsea tZ‘:ll..l?aft been two Leers ma the services t mained to alter it than by a thorough revision of it. ‘,1_74 tes t !, l ',7!ts k , r toll age of 21. The change Soya Amer's were made to a property tax, and-would continue We_° st e ft K s t 111 4 _ u. , tlace, the trial by j ur y wait retained ( paid at present fell so heavily and concealed thetbeo7l o Or r s WotiVleq_lreland there was a ehatge .ef totem other. He would acid his request to , tbe. hon. mealt°, ser atifs vassia_orlof trial by jury, (Hear, bear.) Was tht ham to withdraw his motion for the present, 611f-tin' s ' tis e 7 t ? When a n d aun t to placing the lives illation were gained.the be ; , tu ft peopl e of Treland at the disposal—irrespon that d to 4 You** ig - he had I, ' Mr. Fir DEN rose and expressed- his hopes . an , st s ens as or lieutenants, member for Oldham -would not withdraw bis motioa it e ast ss n the honour of the British army. He could riot refrain from expressing his satisfaction t u n i t na ta j gtl6 l - o ,Viry 116 , *r entered the'fielil—that its of been made. Whether right or wrong it was an i t":li l d / 3 : i - :,T. Z . in their private relations as high-minder fact that, when grievances -prevailed, our ancestors hoof en ,:ziti e 7l, .ct ; but, still they were human being vote mil/Ales of tugney until those grievances h 51ci17.0dott."; eves „by all the hope's and fears which were mined into and redressed. It had been said that the t al itier i eto human conduct. Then, think of the the hon. member for Oldham was tinged with WWI" bo utO of tB /1 ,3 til* t i Y would be Plaegd. by the proposed se but was that to he a valid objection with a reforis ven ce i s tl'e liens,._ They were young end ardent—say ' The question was s was the matter complained of a er „, ot icta ti i, ,2et t i .atenants or ensigns —of course anxious f not? If it was,-that was the reason for proposing w n ot b e 011 . iL4et.?"teas refuse to promote the views of their regard to i. 't He could not see why property should then t , ~,,, r i, , ,„ Might he not reitent their doing so by 1 ,w' 1. 0 'ft kNOLi '' He ; A lowed to pass freely from one person to el° a ° lll' ti' i 'le' opt h , o. ) sa... yes. It was part of hindrances and expenses which at present attache ...., o f i , N l; e .Crown to confer promotion and app< Mr. WARBURTON and Mr. Gash-: joined in the urgitr e... e ! 1e, 5 1",, and these tribunals would consequentl hon. member for Oldham to withdraw his motion, to WP , species of apprehension. They would be Mr. COBBETT, at length, assented. STATE OF IRELAND. rollgrsx). Dt el I The report of the Committee of Supply was then . I, ts and read, and on the question that the sum of £ 3 , T e ed, granted to his Majesty for the support of certain lane '' - _ till nder tof th . urity t what t ' hey 0 - Rh °man C 311 l'e con v i na l , d the el 1 ' 1, 2 eir cow l . . .