The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-03-29 00:00:00

Emperiai ?dal:ham/it. DOUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, MARCH 25. Mr. Bernal and other§ trona the Commons brought up the ta_gar Duties' Bill. Petitions praying for the batter observance of the Sabbath were presented by the Duke of Newcastle, from parishes in the county of Nottingham; by the Earl of Rosebery, from Dum barton- by the Bishop of Lincoln, from parishes iu Montgo meryshire, Leicestershire, and Carnarvoushire ; and by Earl Fitzwilliam, from Rotherham, in Yorkshire. Lord KING presented a petition from St. Michael's and St. John's Dublin, against the coercion bill; and from several places in Ireland against the tithe system. Lord Wyraoan presented a petition from a religious congre gation in Glasgow, praying for some measure to prevent the successive labour of children in factories. -The Earl of ROSSLYN presented a petition to the same effect from Cupar. The Duke of GORDON presented a petition for the revision of - tithes from a parish in Aberdeenshire. • Petitions in favour of the abolition of slavery were presented by the Duke of CLEVELAND, from a parish in the county of Durham; and by the Earl of Gosford, from a parish in Perth shire. •• ••The Earl of RODEN presented a petition from a place in Inverness-shire, praying for the abolition of church patronage : from Dundalk, against slavery; from Cashel, and from different places in the counties of Down, Dublin, and Meath, praying that a convocation of the clergy might be summoned, to take the important subject of church reform into consideration; and from the inhabitants of Elphiu, against that part of the Church. Reform Bathe effect of which would be to take away the advan tages they at present enjoyed from the residence of a Protestant Bishop among them. The noble earl said that the last peti tion was signed both by Protestants and Catholics, and was well deserving of their lordships' serious consideration. On the motion of Earl Fitzwilliam, an account of the dif ferent counties, baronies, and parts of baronies, lying within the several sees in Ireland, was ordered to be laid before the house. -The Marquess of WESTMEATH, as the house was about to ad journ, called the attention of their lordships to the wording of a petition presented by a noble baron (King) from the parishei of St. Michael and St. John, Dublin, against the Irish Dis turbances Bill. The petitioners used language which he thought highly unbecoming towards that house; they said that afirliament, instead of preparing fresh bayonets and cannon to keep the people down, ought to pass measures for the relief of their sufferings and the redress of their grievances; but what he particularly objected to in the petition was the assertion that the people of Ireland had a right to a separate legislature. He thought the petition was, moreover, irregular, in respect of its reference to a bill which had passed their lordships' house. Lord KING said that the petitioners had a right to take their own view of their own affairs; and he was not aware that they stated anything that was disrespectful to their lordships' house. • They had a . perfect right to petition against the Irish Disturb 'oxides Bill, inasmuch as it had not yet passed into a law;_ and it should be borne in mind that the bill now before the Com -Tomas was a very different bill from that which had passed their lordships' house. (" Hear," and laughter.) After a few more words, the conversation on this subject dropped, and the house adjourned. TUESDAY. Lord King presented a petition from a place in Wales for the repeal of the malt-tax. The Bishop of London presented petitions for the better oh .servance of the sabbath from a congregation in Conduit-street, and from St. Andrew's' (Scotch) church, near the Commercial road. Petitions to the same effect were presented by the Earl of Ro den from St. Katherine's, in Dublin, and from other places in Itele.nd: and by Lord Melbourne, from Arbroath. The Earl of Morley presented a petition from the merchants, bankers, and tradesmen of Plymouth, praying for the amend ment of the law of debtor and creditor. Earl Fitzwilliam presented petitions, praying for the removal of the disabilities alfecting . the Jews, from the inhabitants of the town of Kingston-upon-Hull; and from the Jews residing ,ati . the same place. The Earl of Roden presented petitions praying for a convo -cation of the clergy, to take into consideration the proposed measure of church reform, from St. George's, Dublin; and from the dean and chapter of Elphin. Also a petition from Caith ness against church patronage in Scotland ; and another from Brechin against the new system of education in Ireland. On the motion of the ?Lord Chancellor, the house then re solved into a committee on ttke LAW AMEN)p_IENT RILL. On the Ist clause, which gve.s to the judges the power to make alterations in the mode eye s in the superior courts, being read, The Earl of Etnosi said he considered the principle of this clause very objectionable. As he understood it, the effect of it would be to give the force of law to whatever rules or orders respecting pleading the judges might . think proper to make within the space of the next lisie years: The Lord CHANCELLOR admitted that at a first view the clause appeared to confer upon the judges a large and needless kower; The law commissioners, four of whom were judges, ad recommended that the whole question of special pleading should undergo revision, for the purpose of ensuring greater ac curacy in the pleadings, as well as of diminishing tae expense as regarded the suitor. Those learned gentlemen, however, never contemplated that parliament could frame a code of spe cial pleading adapted to all times, and to every variety of cir- Oumstances. Lord WYNFORD objected to giving the judges such extensive powers for the space of five years. He was ready enough to admit their great learning and ability, but he could not consent to delegate to them the powers of the legislature. He should therefore propose an amendment, requiring the judges to con sider what alterations in the practice of pleading were neces sary, and to submit whatever regulations they might adopt to both houses of parliament. The Lord CHANCELLOR thought that, whatever inconveni ence, the clause as it stood might occasion, the noble and learned lord's proposition would give rise to still greater incon venience, and was infinitely more objectionable. If their lord ships adopted the amendment, they might depend upon it that no man would ever propose a change in the law without being met by the objection that the matter ought to be referred to the jddges in the first instance. The Earl of ELDON felt himself bound to give the clause, as it, stood, his most decided opposition. It went to overthrow that ancient and salutary principle of the constitution—that enly parliament should alter the law of the land. It, in fact, delegated the powers of parliament to the judges, instead of the g ood old practice of making the Lord Chancellor embody in alegislative measure the suggestions of the judges. It would do away with parliamentary interference altogether in the practice of the courts, and, so far, would arm the judges with power above the law. The law f practice was the law of the land, and if the judges' regulations could, after five years, become a part of the law of practice, it followed that to them was delegated a most important junction of the legislature. He would trust no judge with such an unconstitutional power, and would therefore vote for the amendment. The Lord CHANCELLOR begged leave to remind the learned earl that the Scotch judges were armed with a much more dis cr6tionary 'power than 'the clause could invest the English judges with. The Earl of ELDON admitted that. Lord'ELCENeoisoenra thought that the object of the amend ment would be attained by inserting, as a provision in the clause, that the regulations of the judges should not be binding till six weeks after they had been submitted to Parliament. (Hear.) The LORD CHANCELLOR had no objection to the noble ba ron's suggestion being adopted ; the rather as the regulations of the judges were meant to affect only the machinery of the court, and not the rules or principles of the law of practice. The Earl of ELDON begged the learned lord's pardon; the clause would enable the juuges to alter the whole ancient prac tice of pleading. Lord Wits; soars agreed with his learned friend, and would therefore persist in Ins amendment, the more confidently, as it would receive all the advantages to be derived from the ex perience and practical suggestions of the judges without arm mg them with a most unconstitutional authority. The real re medy for the abuses contemplated by the bill, would be the sim plifying the form of pleadings, to make them brief and explicit, instead of being, as at present, a mass of absurd verbosities. On a division, these appeared : For Lord Wynford's amendment Against it Majority The LORD CHANCELLOR withdrew, for the present, the clause compelling part shipowners to refer the cause to arbitration. The Earl of ELDON would have offered the clause his uncom promising opposition. His 50 3,cars' experience as judge and chancellor emboldened him to say that a more despotic clause could not have been submitted to the legislature. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that it would only be in cases of small amount, and not involving any difficult question of law, that-the sheriff would be called upon ; besides that, it would be optional with the suitor to have his cause tried by the judge of writhe ia the usual way. The other clanks of the bill were then put and agreed to. On the clause which provides that witnesses interested solely on account of the verdict may be admissible being moved, Lord WYNFORD objected to the wording of this clause, and suggested an amendment which would have the effect of de itroying, in some measure, the temptation to swear falsely. It was wrong, the noble lord observed to place a man in a si tuation in which he was either compelled to give false evidence or injure his personal interests; and he would prefer getting rid of the clause altogether. The LORD CHANCELLOR concurred in the amendment, and the clause was agreed to. • On the clause being moved which abolishes certain holy days, The Lorna CHANCELLOR observed that an erroneous impres sion had gone abroad that Good Friday was included in the holydays specified in the bill. That was not, hoWever, the case, since Good Friday was not one of the holydays mentioned in the sth and 6th Edward VI., to which alone the present bill had reference. The other clauses of the bill were then severally put and agreed to, the house resumed, and the report was ordered to be received this day. Lord WYNFORD postponed his motion for the second reading of the Law Amendment Bill till Tuesday next, in consequence of the continued absence of the Lord Chief Baron.—Ad journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, MARCH 25. The SPEAKER took the chair soon after twelve o'clock. Mr. ELLICE moved for a writ for the election of a burgess to serve in parliament for the borough of Sunderland, in the room of the Hon. Captain Barrington, who had accepted the office of the Chiltern Hundreds.—Ordered. This being the last day for the first reading of private bills, the house was occupied upwards of an hour in disposing of the private business. Mr. iionGEs brought in a bill for the making the city of London Arcade.—Read a first time. _ . _ Mr. HODGES brought in a bill for erecting and maintaining a pier at Gravesend.—Read a first time. On the motion of Sir E. KNATCHBULL, the Serjeants'-inn Improvement Bill was read a first time. Sir E. Wi r:moz presented a petition from the parish of Bed worth, Warwickshire, for an amendment of the Beer Bill, and for the better observance of the Sabbath ; a petition from cer tain inhabitants of the county of Warwick, praying for relief from the heavy taxation under which they . labour; and a peti tion from the parish of Little Tethering, in the same county, for the better observance of the Sabbath. The house continued occupied in receiving petitions until three o'clock, when the Speaker left the chair. At five o'clock the Speakar resumed the chair. LIVERPOOL ELECTION. Mr. BANNERMAN reported from the committee appointed to inquire into the corrupt practices pursued at elections for mem bers to serve in Parliament for the borough of Liverpool, that a witness of the name of Elizabeth Robinson had refused to an swer questions put to her by the committee. Elizabeth Robinson was ordered to attend at the bar of the house to-morrow. THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. BRITISH MUSEUM. The report of the Committee of Supply was then brought up. On the question that the house do agree with the committee in the resolution that a sum not exceeding £16,881 be, granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses of the establishment at the British Museum— Mr. Consicri rose to object to the resolution. He saw no reason why the sum of £If.,UW should be paid out of the gene 'al taxes of the country for the sake of supporting the British Museum; and concluded by moving that this report be recom mitted. After a few observations from an unknown member, who stated that, as he had given notice of a motion on the subject of the British Museum, he was anxious to guard himself against the supposition of taking the same view as the hon. member had taken of its inutility, the report was agreed to. .0011MiliEE OF SLPPLY% Osi the question that the Speaker leave the chair, Mr. HusiE rose to oppose the motion. When the house al tered the period at whic,, the financial year closed, and made it terminate on the sth of April, instead of the sth of January, the object of it was that the house might have the state of the fi nances for the year brought before it at as early a periodns pos sible, and should vote the estimates for the ensuing year before the month of April. They were met that day, when the esti mates were about to expire, to vote them again without know ing . anything of the state of the finances, and thus: they were again in nearly the same situation with that they had been for years past. Now, his opinion was that they should vote the es timates for five quarters instead of voting them for four, so that they Would have one quarter to consider of the scale at which they should fix the estimates in future. The alterations which the house made some time ago had not benefitted the country one jot. The houie had not considered the amount of its esta blishments, and did not know whether the income of the coun try would warrant the supplies which it was then about to vote. The question whiCh he should now put to the house would be simply this—were they met to give that relief to the people of England which the people of England had a right to expect at their hands? The noble lord (Althorp) would give them no idea of his plan of finance. By the papers laid upon the table last April, when the accounts were made up for the year, it ap peared that the excess of expenditure aboveincome for that ear was £1,200,000; so that, with all our economy, we had that year increased our debt by that very sum. It was therefore evident that the country could receive no relief from taxation unless the house redui:ed the charges upon the revenue to au amount below that of the last year. He asked ministers—and he inked them with some apprehensions—whether there was any thing connected with the finance of this quarter which justified thesis in anticipating that the surplus of this year would balance the deficiency of last year? We could not go on any longer taking off taxes and borrowing money to supply the chasm in the revenue which the s ;aking off. those taxes created. It' they could not do this, what alternative had they? He had told the noble lord that he was ready to wait till the 14th of April, when the noble lord would be able to state the amount of the revenue up to the sth of April, and to declare his intention as to the alteration of our establishments, and to the removal or reduc tion of part of the taxes. if the noble lord would assent to this plan, he would not object to Jet him take a vote of-credit for the estimates for the next three months, so that in the-interval the house might have time to consider what force it Would main tain both in the navy, in the army, and in the ordnance. The noble lord would not, he understood, accede to that proposition; but called upon the house to vote on that evening au establish ment of 27,0U0 men fOr the navy, and gave notice that he would call upon it on Wednesday next to vote an establishment of 50,000 men for the army, and would, on a future day, call upon it to vote an establishment for the ordnance on a similarly ex tensive scale. New, if the house voted that number of men for the different military services of the state, it must also vote the money to maintain them ; and the question, therefore, which lion. members ought to put to themselves was this=" If we con sent to this vote, what means have we to force upon ministers that reduction of establishments, and, as its consequence, that reduction of taxation, which the country has a right to expect ? The question which he wished to ask the house was this : "Were we not at peace now ?" He believed from the speech from the throne that we were at peace; we had at present no thing to fear either from external force or from internal commo tion—we were in a situation in which we ought to endeavour to reach that reduced state of establishments and taxation, which would be the best preparation for those increased exertions which might be necessary at no distant day for the priltection of the country. We were now keeping up war establishments, which were inconsistent with the welfare and peace of the coun try. Successive governments had been promising, year after year, to reduce the establishments, but they always found some excuse for maintaining them at their present extravagant scale. If Ireland had been governed by conciliation instead of coercion, millions of money would have been saved to this country. The only way to make ministers reduce the establishments was to pass a resolution declaring that the house would insist upon an extensive reduction of taxation. When Ministers had no longer the means of suppOrting the. establishments they would find that it was quite practicable to reduce them. The hon. member con cluded with moving, "That it is imperative upon this house to demand a large reduction of taxation, as one of the best means of relieving the country from its - present burdens. Secondly, that it is expedient, before voting the naval and military estab lishments for the public service of the year, that this house should be informed of the state of the finances of the country, and whether any and what relief is to be afforded to the people from the burden of taxation, in order that the establishments may be suited thereto," . Lord ALTHORP admitted that the object of the alteration which had been made with respect to the ending of the financial year was, that the estimates for the ensuing year should be voted before the year commenced. That object had not been accom plished this year on account of the pressure of other business on the attention of the house. It, however, never was in the contem plation of the government at the time that alteration was made that a financial Statement should be made to Parliament until the year had closed. It was the wish of the hon. member for Middlesex that the house should be informed of the state of the finances of the country before they voted the estimates of the year—that was to say, the house should know how much they had to expend before they decided upon expending anything.— The principle upon whii:h a government ought to act was to cut down the expenditure to the lowest possible amount, censistent 7 ly with the interests of the country, and then to provide the means of meeting the expenditure thus reduced. The principle propounded in the hon. member's resolution was directly the reverse of that, and therefore he felt it his duty to oppose the adoption of it. The hon. member seemed to think that a re duction of taxation was the only mode by which a reduction. of experiditureCotild be 'effected. 'that was an important auxiliary to the reduction of expenditure, but there was another mode by which that object could be effected, and that was by the improve ment of the revenue. The hon. meniber stated that on the sth April last there was a deficiency of 1:1,240,000; but he forgot to add that the estimates for last year exhibited a reduction 0ft2,300,0U0. In the committee his right hon. friend would explain, he hoped satisfactorily, the ground ou which he asked for the number of men contained in the estimate. The question which the com mittee would have to decide was, whether the number of men required by ministers for the service of the army and navy was justified by the necessities of the state. The votes of members must depend upon the case made out by ministers, and not on the balance-sheet of the finances. The committee of supply would not be justified in voting a single man more than was necessary for either service, however flourishing the state of the finances might appear to be. (Hear.) Mr. ROBINSON said that whatever might have been the view upon which the noble lord. acted with respect to the alteration of the termination of the financial year, he was sure it was the understanding of the house, at the time that alteration was de termined on, that it would enable the Chancellor of the Ex chequer to submit a financial statement.to the house before they were called upon to vote the estimates. (Hear.) Mr. HEnallis said that though he could not vote with the hon. member for Middlesex, he yet thought that, under the circumstances, that hon. member had a right to call upon the government for information on the subject of his motion. It Was quite true that it was an admitted principle of financial management to look to the exigencies of the state in the first instance, without paying any regard to the means by which those exigencies were to be supplied; and in the next place to consider in what way to apply the revenue of the state, so as that any unnecessary expenditure of the public money might be avoided. Though he could not vote with the hon. member for Middlesex, he yet thought he had shown some ground for inducing the house to call on the noble lord for some state ment; but at the same time he (Mr. Herries) would not make the re mission of taxation a motive for supporting such a demand. Sir J. GRAHAM, in the first lace, would contend, though he might differ from the hou. member with regard to the principles by which the expenditure of the country ought to be regulated, that the income should be made to meet the expenditure, and not the expenditure first made to meet the income. Such had always been his (Sir J. Graham's) opinion, and such, he be lieved, had been that of the hon. member, (Mr. Herries) if credit could be placed on the financial statement made by the hon. member before the finance committee in 1828, and which, he (Sir J. Graham) could not help thinking the most luminous and most able financial statement he had ever seen. With, regard to the change of the financial year, he must confess that the experiment might have been much mere satisfactory if it had been called into fuller operation. It must, however, be admitted to have'failed in some degree. Its failure might, how ever, be imputed to the fact of the attention of government being in the beginning of the session entirely absorbed with considerations regarding the state of Ireland, to which it was their paramount duty to solicit the notice of the house, it they valued. the safety of that portion of the empire. 'The hon. mem ber had, said that ministers might have convoked the Parlia ment earlier. That, however, was not in their power. 'they had convened Parliament on the first day on which the writs were returnable. Sir I'. FREMANTLE said that a financial statement of the ways and means was not wanted; all that was required was an account of the expenditure of the last year, in order that it might be seen whether the estimates were in conformity with the expenditure. Mr. D. - W. HARVEY said that ministers seemed determined to keep all the information to themselves on the present subject of inquiry. It was evident that a financial statement was not to be wrung from ministers, and the house must therefore make up its mind wait until they were pleased to afford it. He would therefore recommend the house to wait a few days for the pro mised statement. Mr. Hum!: said as a difference of opinion seemed to exist with respect to the propriety of the period of introducing his motion, and as he did not wish it to be pressed to a division under any misapprehension of that kind, he would withdraw it. The house. then having resolved itself into a committee of supply, Sir J. GRAHAM rose to propose the navy estimates. He hardly, he observed, needed to impress upon the house the importance of the subject he was about to submit to their con sideration, inasmuch as it was the first vote connected with the great and expensive establishments of the country, which had yet been brought before the new house of Parliament. The country, he believed; looked forward to the occasion with great anxiety, nor did his (Sir J. Graham's) solicitude fall short of what ought to attach to an individual placed in the situation in which he then stood. One of the grand points which the con stituencies of the' country had urged upon their representatives was a strict attention to economy in all the expenses of the state. (Hear, hear.) In this view he (Sir J. Graham) most fully concurred, and he was - satisfied that the House of Com mons would, in all the questions of finance which would be sub mitted to it, act with due caution and deliberation in the work of 'alteration or revision, in order that they might not compro mise the safety or hondur of the country. lie teit satisfied that they would do nothing hastily or inconsistently with their duty to secure the happiness of their country. He had no hesita tion in declaring that his Majesty's government had done, and were determined to do, their utmost in promoting a reduction of the expenditure in this as well as in other departments of the public service, and it did appear to him that such reduc tions would be better effected through the direct instrumentality of the executive than by the immectiate agency of that house, acquainted as the executive must be with all the various details upon the subject, and responsible as it was for the proper per formance of the duty that devolved upon it. The right hon. hart. entered into the details of the income and. expenditure of the country generally, and comparative statement of the navy estimates for the years 1829, 30, and 31 ; the quantity of naval stores and ,other matters connected with the civil department of navy, and concluded by moving . " That it is the opinion of this committee that 27,000 men, including marines, should be voted for the service of the,navy for the 13 lunar months, ending the 31st of March, 1834." Captain YORKE said that the statement he had formerly made with regard to the want of sufficient stores at Portsmouth had been made from ocular inspection ' • and that the stores of which the right hon. baronet produced the return must have been placed in some quarter where he could not see them. After condemning the navy bill of' the right hon baronet of last ses sion, the gallant captain proceeded to condemn the appoint ment of Captain Symonds. That officer should not have been appointed to an office which no naval person had ever filled before. lie also condemned the conduct of the right hon. baronet in refusing the command at Portsmouth to Sir H. Neale because he had been returned to a seat in Parliament. Such conduct was a direct interference with the constituency of the country, and the right hon. baronet in adopting such a principle was only acting upon the principles avowed by the hon. member for Middlesex., He thought that the conduct of government was unprecedented in the case he had alluded to, and uncalled for, because the port-admiral had both a flag-ad miral and a superintendant under him. He concluded by observing t,,bat he had avoided - to make much comment on the estimates, because they were, in his Mind, highly satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. PEOHELL made a few remarks which were not heard in the gallery. Sir E. CODRINGTON said he believed that the dock-yards were in a greater state of efficiency at the present moment than at any previous period. (Hear, hear.) With respect to pen sions, he mast observe that the clamour which was raised against the pensions given to officers who had long and faith fully served their country in active service was most unjust; and the more especially so when the larger amount of the retiring incomes of those persons who had been connected with the civil services of the country was considered. What was greatly wanted was, that pensions should be farely bestowed, arid only given to those who had earned them by their services. In looking over the list of pensions and allowances, he found it stated that the Hon G. A. C. Stapylton received £lOOO a-year for 59 years of service; and Mr. John Jackson, Master-Attend dant at Plymouth,- £413 for 32 years of service. Ile knew that both these gentlemen were in the service 55 years ago, and he did not understand the reason why, in the one case, the number of the years of service was increased; and in the other deicreased. He also saw the name of Mr. Marshall, W. Clif ton, to which a pension of £C6O a-year was attached for 27 years Of good service. He really did not believe that that gentleman was old enough to have served that term ; and yet the £660 a year which he received was pretty nearly £lOO a year more than he (Sir E. Codrington) was entitled to, who had been in the service of the country since 1765. (Hear, hear.) He found that Miss Rosamond Croker also received out of the public purie £3OO a year. (Hear, hear.) Now, he would state attention. It was the case of a lady t he sister of the a case to the house, to which he begged to call th ei ! guished officers, all of Whom (lied engag ed o f oD of their country. She Was left with the ch ildren brothers to provide for, and she was also obligeadrto.; to the support'of an aged father; yet not one f government, even after repeated applications, gir.a.,ll lady, in consideration of the services of her gar b j until his present Majesty was appointed Lord ?g,,, j when by his kindness she was put in possession ot i x"; Now he begged to put the case of this young lady 1 with that of Miss Rosamond Cruiser. (Ch eers " seemed to have been to give the largest pensio,n,s,e, least services had been performed ; but he hoped ,', l principle would be acted - upon in that reforraeclharli (Hear, hear.) Sir Robert Seppings, a man rrh,°, s , ho country hundreds of _thousands of pounds, dila ' in the service upwards of 50 years, was pift dowo_ served only 39 years, that his pension might be entl 7 £760. The gallant admiral next called the att house to the condition of the pursers in the WY, described as a most valuable class of persons , an d r ' their claims were not sufficiently attended to by t- He had no doubt that he should be told that pursers made their fortune. That might be the case dal but the per centage allowed them hail beou i g r( since that period. He did hope that the Frst Admiralty would turn his attention to the sito neglected class of persons, and do them s°' justice. If pensions were taken from the uncles, would be plenty of money to bestow on the meritoq hear.) With respect to sinecures, all he would that he conceived the principle which had been house of granting a specific sum as the sr eminent services, such as those of Sir F. FoleY a Saumarez, for example, worthy of cop i isideratio u, choice did not remain solely with?, he it t , h ' a t Admirality. If it were made compl. sory on f propose a vote for eminent services, he s hould Pr e of extraordinary remuneration to, a sittegitre, al if it rested solely with him he should .prefer the He had: some remarks to offer also on the system the command of the marines to officers of an which he should submit on a future occasion. Mr. HUME could not, for the soul of him, see on vi.x nisters could justify their keeping such an enorrile;, naval force. We were at peace with the world, so that tification was the protection of our commerce ; but force was not required far that purpose. America 1) ( , ) merce very nearly equal to ours, and yet six ve ssei found to efficiently - protect the American Ong a ll , ° I while we kept up a force of 118 fully equipped sau , elusive of transports, to protect our commerei3' Would not half this force be sufficient for the pure e t ' call upon them to at once reduce the naval expenoiturii in 1792, before the war, but to act on the recomm end mince committee of 1817, and adapt the amount to and commensurately to their enormous taxation• this desirable end, he would propose as an am, present vote be reduced from 27,000 seamen to 20,20 0, 4 equal to the wants of the country. Alr. G. Youxu had heard with great satisfaction that vice was growing so popular that they might, I re foe, course to the odious system of impressment. (ile aT ' l person brought that subject forward;:, he would in the session, by moving that it be.referredto a select cee:, Mr. C. floss, amid much coughing and cries of understood to say that he doubted much the adva nta 4 solidatien of the Navy and Victualling Boards.ri WoUl - cl require at least twelve months more before the ronet's (Sir J. Graham) . predictions were realized. Mr. GUEST did not think the circumstances of the admit of a reduction to the extent proposed by the hf r Middlesex, and therefore could not vote for 'his B ', o should have no objection to reduce the number by 2,0‘ The committee then divided:— For Mr. Hume's amendment.. ............. ••' Against it • • • Majority On our re-admission to the gallery we found Mr. limos proposing an amendment to reduce the c°te the committee, 1.955,220 for the wages of seame n ' _ £6,910. Nothing, he said, could be more objecti.l present mode of lumping and huddling . together. 11 . 11 2 L, title of " wages of seamen," the salaries of adultr‘r: the other officers, including; sinecurists. Why not, as.: mates, state each officer's pay under its proper heae cw hiti v present huddling mode was retained from the faciliti3, ed for sinecures and useless offices. iyl Sir J. GRAHAM said the offices alluded to did not fmr ote, designation of sinecures. These marine appointniellt!eds.9 naval men, as best acquainted with the disciplin e kept up on board men-of-war. After some discussion, the t ommittet divided. For the Amendment . . . . Against it Majority . . . . • • .1 The ornal vote was then agr to. The sum ene ed of £438,004 was th voted for victuals for 6e marines. The house resumed, and the Chairman reported Pr 6c ' tamed leave to sit again. num cnuneu. the Lord ALTITORP postponed the resolutions relative A Ireland to Monday next. 017 The Scotch Revenue Bill went through commit tee ' was ordered to be received this day. pcoli a is The Stafford Bribery Bill, as amended, was read a,, S- scotc Mr. KENNEDY moved the second reading of the Police Bill. sea l Mr. It. STEWART objected to this bill being read a account of its not having been printed. The second reading was accordirviy postponed. TUESbAY. ve o The gallery was not opened till a quarter Pa st „ide consequence of there being a ballot for three confi ,40 election petitions, impeaching /he returns for tbe ampton, the borough of Ripon, and the city of C°' HOUSE AND WINDOW TAX. 5 0,0' The Sheriffs of London appeared at the bar Co o from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common city of London, against the house and window.tas LIVERPOOL ELECTION. • 3 bet il The order of the day for the attendance of ° ji tter° son at the bar was then read; and immediately e h - l eit et was called in and placed at the bar. She wa s !' o ct.l)" by the Speaker. Her answers were very inis` l o gala the gallery, indeed the greater part of them v iel heard ble. We give the examination, however, as We , What is your name ?—Elizabeth Robinson- , You were summoned as a witness on the 1. 0 erP committee, were you not?—Yes. You were asked questions by that committee dined to answer, were you not ?—Yes. tl° What was your reason for declining to answfe, dons ?=Because I was in apprehension for my 11 0 0 P; You were in apprehension of risk to your PI - die? swered the questions put to you?—l was afr o. ' , an I w wa ed them. t re s not from any wish, then, to conoeal an) afri ii committee that you declined to answer ?---1 w as mentioned what I knew they would take my i. ' Have you the same feeling of alarm now whicOorei you declined to answer the questions put to yne,,, o ok, mittee?—The witness gave an answer of some for the only words audible in the gallery were "I ", Ye ll f Have you been threatened by any one, or has t e ' o 'yee son for supposing that any harm will liapPen ° beg if you answer ?—I have been threatened by person. hoe se By Mr. ROBINSON.—Wi II you state to the e g oe person is who threatened you if you answerer' tb, . fore the committee ?—I dare not tell. • The witness was then ordered to w ithdraw..,.. Te re t Mr. BANNERMAN (the chairman of the 3 41- i t oes s , committee) then moved that the order for the ance be discharged. tb jo Mr. BENETT seconded the motion but. - 1 " which he occupied under the gallery, what lie s al ing it was inaudible in the gallery. to one hm portance ? The subject matter into which the , (3 0 , E_quCOellstlidonn—otv,a,asssetnhtetoe:tihdiesupereoio)ofsitthi this olio to inquire was bribery; and if the witness on be' l sel' knew whether bribes had been_ given, and 11 0 111 whom, declined to answer, the whole trated, supposing she were now dise i harged- ri d W 9 Mr. BENETT again addressed the house, a- that most inaudible. We understood him to say , ro ot which the committee had in view would not be P in,g this witness any further questions. Lord HF.NNIKER (we believe) said that to .h ill ;;; I i material that this witness should be pressed gitlif commttiec had now sat for five days; and ' l , ll ei , o! $ ,) proved before it was that £32 3s. 6d. had 1- .' i c o Ibis witness was called to prove that a bt l been offered and received;- and she would of t he P e i name of the person who paid, or the name ° ss bet received the bribe. If the house did not pr e ea, le , swer, the whole inquiry might as well be stoPP au d i o Mr. BENETT again spoke and was agai n P i t th e too 00 An hon. Member (name unknown) sal •de tion on which the house was called on to de cl i dencp the witness justified in refusing to give, ° l % , c r witthat. said was, that some person had threatene d aed c!' case she gave evidence. Now,. he appre' c ;fist bed`, were in England sufficient to protect her ag a ot to tion. The witness, in his opinion, ought n t hee a l e Ile of upon the grounds which she had stated. house 'should be made acquainted with the p.d thr eatened the poor woman, as h e m i g h !it culprits. ear, hear.) (R 8 . Ricx said that the real question at isst Luse would allow itself to be stopped in an; ,the b are averment of the party themselve other evidence that they had been jut Pag the truth) (near, heal. ) lle was in c 'can e . • , • c ot the witness at the bar, to think i7the truth when she said that she had bee 1 011 Se ought not to consider that point I bjetuiciples involved in a case of this 'rah ~,. 1 1 a matter of discretion with the coma 'iritopht this witness to the bar of the how )o the c ommittee had brought the witne: , ght that the house would not discharge i it,' ilcrffer, it it let the question drop ; On anger inducements to the timid witneSs to irtifi cein tothe co erupt witness to s c reen hi s n„ this his power. If t h e house shoulc "`t" wit ness under the circumstan c es i 1 ., would acquiesce in that in which he w. ,:b,f justice in the country would acquie ,`Lear, hear.) In a word, if the house h",,,,11°1v proposed it would be unworthy t ficik L ia r !Z d a itish.sa that i n i a d o h u a g d h t c o t o m abdicatethe rti• Member for Cambridge. If the i lls wer he saw no alternative but re, °r°o which the house had always hithc instance. IttnnmAx beg ge d l eave, as chairman of t: IY eth ambers of t h e comm i t t ee h a d h in assuring the witness that ),•.111 ha in as tat as the law could prote. 1 4- atikgested that if the time for . re e,3vitness till to-morrow, and some hien ~;4`Z„acivise her, she might then, perhai lic her ' efore advised that she .L'lwi'lnd brought again to the bar to-mor Otiß "P stiVected that the witness shout! tiCtehtvenht ':urround her with all th,... It to her t, it l' , 'ouicl insist upon her answers SRN °v the cOminittee. r treed the house should recollect, tha' e , 1, arlswe r the questions nut to he ste hit srefused to answer any qt be e — se . The questions put to her by a . w it put to her by the house. th e ••11411VEY curled upon the house , to ,li.,V,rittiess was evidently influenced 1.)) ter 1 4(1 , the eEect at terror was to mut. i cat tneut of me.cri Some person was Illlgelf froth the conviction of guilt, r % ‘,„, ll ,ich would follow his conviction, ill e t• - " th t. lhough she was innocent, ! a or , tillidation to protect the crimintd. I i tge'stion' 1 .,, 1 of Lord Althorp, and propo. 38 2 11 , - ;„"` of protection, and told to appea ltt--'4 t o - morrow, mid to answer all qu. panink it expedient to put to her. ihw-Cl;editaelniessul of th to e t P a e k i- rt n hat w '47 h lithikelL ti c s:: t a id tid th s e w.T w ge ltli sted ss th w a a t s , '%N took it for granted that when the I:„ it h Powers to.send for papers, per tou c h would resent any disobedience ‘, at I, ' „,",as it would resent any disobedie . ne hie t n - ",` unr. Ile took it for grunted thatl %tan had rerused to answer were cons: i t-e 'e,questions of importance ; for it ° ,,,l_elied t answer, the house had no c -.4crce an o answer to the question by wil • l y: , 7 1 ) 1) * Is t , vou b r i . , c. o l u n g o li t t h h a e v r e , brought the e to V person shoandeai ns n t h t t i.s o r to el l :c n a t s x t E jl said that if he could collect the I ,e4t.._ts,., ,ta .. ii ti o:4:ll :pia_ ti.:*; : ukl it.Lite i tv i aathsho( i ne, tulvl not in it t :hi h ici ae e ciastus s i , s s - hi nt i k t oca n edau e .yr% s ‘a.l s ue ha s , de l d r ir o ed u s should t b e e m calls nt ,-; the (1 he r excuse • that she should be :;e'ttfs` rn on put. to'her, and be told that E ki Lij sa 4 4 ' -.44Y Ili consequences from her am -S e 4 ' l SilSSeitY for making - an order that she si e ' ef ilisa 4 suggested that she should be cal , 11 ,* Als Ac ce „'° l her persisting in her refusal to b. 4 f ew 'to her. not no o i b e j a e r e n t i c oAll e , words from Mr. SHAW, which could 441)(1113 1't : 6 uls t i is .eo At a i li to i ja n t.e s i o ore n rdir s , l fe • o a di s .hn a e g o.rt a t i ha n an c ts a ut l h, l e e er d ikni t og o ust th he e bar. e 6 ll la t• ril l i t ai i ttne, and did not think. tha el t iaci t du h e a l'i l PIA s „ ,uotne expected that she would , 4 os „ s•-• ner; at the same time she mighi ;c lt e l l il es's. i. l, c h t e ion ho o u f se th i e vas ho s u at s i e si lt e ' d sh t e o d t i a s k c e ha t rg h, tlos te 'ul to believe that she was in a mists , 4 ,4ie e ,,1.u s her answer; but she must now le ~,- " st 1 ) ,"` her continued refusal to ainssser wc il tite ,;oco,nuoitted to the custody of the Serge t lit ,to h 41d no w expect that she would ausw eo as e ,r, and she might depend on full prot i wit s , she was bound to do. ''t sh e the n or d ere d t o w ithd raw , with the should again g o b e f ore th e committee t l I PII 4, EXCISE LAWS (SCOTLAND.) th 4 Vit ic ,, '4l liA Yilll consequence of his Maje: t ,,, es,' , , uorninatad a commission to examii t' 4 the l aws of the united kingdom, and I 1 ) 11 ' s'tt e — :„ noble lord, the . Ch . aneellor of the p a e thiee t ",°U of the commission would as es ''lltor elite ,to Scotland, postponed his motiot , 4 th at 4 thee'Sect committee , Ma to - Thursday the ' 0 1.114 i onfidence he placed in his jes i' 4 t Dp 44 uce them as far as possible, to alter ~.t l ee s ent in foree which was, in many re: I,ltardressive to the ' people of Scotland. `'. ONDENCE ON THE EAST INDIA (WEE I • _ °ll th, lr i s. _N asked whether there was any 11 Os t - t Lahle of the houSe the corresponder :st l i t ,, (4 the Board of Control and the j '''Pri e ,"'' had . yesterday been read at a Co 4 1.1. ts ts. h As a ti : a al' said there could be no objectiot it the table of the house. , b °ll/ N . COSIM UTATION OF TAXES . °4e t ail s the diversity ;IMittC. In that House upon almost every 4 1, in which all seemed to be agreed—tin ga", a" re lieved from' the overwhelming burd it, sth '. l , i s t n ... government had hitherto been as 4, t es s i,L 4 ae off taxes aud as those calls had 'tva,:','Y for pre-ervings the faith of the count • ' l ,4l : ;,but there had Cecil kept up taxes to t ~'l 4 st - ,Y° ll d the actual exigencies of the Etat O 1 ;••te i i , -e ution to the subject, and, having c Vl' t - ai that house, he was aware that no 44 4 1,e114.,,,t.ti ) iaatiti re tess, ,: e,:x7 e sailatiti e etoi o homil u nb l v, d e_o_rf.. b it e .ohre r B e i n ,iur li bm t i t ij e cn d gfha i ai t t i nah, an (01 ): hrer. w rl a vAl y st ot t ' a lty , it uL taxes. Unless he could make out a tl ,!e e , l tt r -,,,w0u1tl not be expedient to change th s'"V't ' ; , hut he would take it on himself t , ' 4 O . ih c ' t changing the's) stem did esist. H , Qa e ha h e ezi'sting distress' of the•countrv. 0 in B° ftl l ,7ellt on that subject calculated to ha . 61se' 1 , 15 os;: e who heard him • and although he 74' os 4statenaent overcharged,' yet such wa ,1e, 4 41,„`aa labouring classes of the commm 'N.;,te e fi e u nef,slected, and of which neglect 'Pe , i , - N e ',l'g . the consequences—that it was the Stlad,l4‘aeir case into consideration, and to se I . l ll l ll ll le . 4 ud patriotism of the house could in lii is (I,,ir distressed condition. The noble lox 141i4N-Cr Itobinson's) opinion, prudently ref; ;S i t 1 114,te the intentions of the . governmi r 4 t he c 0) , 4 Power to make "his financial statemi ' (t ko - n s ' l "!.° pursued . by the noble lord, it smug dt'k3, tilut hunsself waited-until the same pc e 4is t ) to tri „.at no government could be expected ,itie9liti,:i . atioti of taxes as he was going to sup ;151 ) r0p;,. 4 , of other taxes, to make way for the k rt',. l a lti r ,``Y• - ThesPeopfe complained of the .14 ? 1 1 -48 • d 'I this fe t r ! eli tes of taxation, an_ that at ' '',wrts4 e ls as Persons of great wealth compai iftli sti 3 tpe burdens of the state. He enterta ht,, ki . b to that if the remedy were much long 11 ,m sd e wrlich they could not extricate . tI2 suffered e lon st g il . l fin t o d p t r h e e s u s xs t 3 t : - "l' t e °4l 4l e...;e as e in Y g we t re r o a n t l i d , with decreasing profi ' his s° .YerY much decreased, and Mr. Hu 11thloileis„:°21uutilognertlwiaittiltho A'4 of g tirtare aISO o ce f ts t yt h t sa e tne' it e i irontfatiattxaat everyti onnitiloct i4;t4 elliti., P` 2 llee, he had otTered his own service 1.8 i ll the way of its adoption. What, he b- Jie ,by the , w a ( s H e_ ust h( lu rsers h in( 7. t u i w, Pro] e elar i ` al; gre atly ear) ;irst IA the PEEL sail SitUa u° ' ' t -Oa * All sowottt s o answer ideS erC : last ? I.e ,e_ wit ritorietts lid tb cn Y th a 7; l ,Allot :u urer.o ssb „ the pe ciat_ te(lf2 corm )ley au ' hu s 7 lll har iou,Yrol :.la the suft first time "ithe „, that t, out; act pr ef er, ,ll ( alV i pra se kia;i 11 s n an d ' 4 ' ag) w ,ella ot her th Pitt to h a t it • what s r Blf er ittee 118 e, d tO tho, tiu e ~„16 11), :44 :11 1e : 4°11 : 1s :4 It ' ail of tt ' e r li «i mast; ,31 e n . , 4(1 , th e pose +Olt it e s."'eeal tu Liture h ,_ eu 00 0 "auggelf em .s. ,„ . e at to aso lo h e " it -Itch Asa s t , ' t,lair k h ee dnie: e 100, a • fi e ~g estio, " 5 814 d that ‘te e 4 , f e longqi - 'tight t 6lll tc ear' ) cog r ilin k it a the lic e : ti O4 11 41\ , ornea e s th e h Q U o f it the 4 , , ntao • 0 311 0104 , 31 . 1 At ~ , tit he J the "' ltte e " N Co h the t oe a s ease h Tt e Armen If h lach as 3 ; o nrne at ,00 ea the th e h ar , itte e t 00511511 1 , ..... h eort„4 qt , ..... latiselV 1,,, 11%1 a. h0...... e vo te ' tt„hfort o en, Dtte :;tiO na t y it . 'N EB S E rider ca p (I „ I , as thi s _ ir'!s's in the et' the h A e o th e ' her lies te, z t q _A a _