The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser. — Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1833-02-26 00:00:00

218 • Env er ial Parliament. HOUSE OF LORDS. t THURSDAY ; FEBRUARY 21. Petitions were presented :—for the abolition of colonial slavery, from Leeds, Ainwick, and Hexham, by Earl Grey ; from Durham, Gateshead, and Stockton-upon-Tees, by Lord Durham ; from a con ~~rre;ation of I . 'r f o r t o es m t e D Dissenters in t oftlLe is ezu n ia s o 7l i t e c ,s es e t a e s r il e by u Lord Tyne, by Lord Suffield ;—for the abolition of Tithes, from Wrora n m and certain other parishes in Kent, by Lord Teignham ;—for the better observance of the Sabbath, ifom the city of Bath, by the - Bishop of Bath and Wells ; from Dartmouth, by the Bishop of Exeter. CHANGE OF VENUE (IRELAND) BILL. Earl GREY :—My lords, I rise to present a bill to your lord ships, entitled " A bill to provide for the more impartial trials of offences in certain cases in Ireland." This is the bill of which I gave notice a few evenings ago that I should lay it upon your lordships' table to-day. I am not aware that it is necessary for me to state anything now as to the nature and object of the bill. I, therefore, move that it be read a first time ; and to-morrow I shall propose the second reading." The bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be printed. SUPPRESSION OF DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY brought up the report of the cora• mittee on the bill for suppressing disturbances in Ireland. After sotne verbal amendments had been made, at the sug gestion of Lord Ellenborough, Earl Grey, and the Lord Chan cellor, in several of the clauses, Earl Grimy proposed an amendment to the clause pointing' out the form of holding courts martial. The amendment ,ran thus :—" Provided always that at such courts martial counsel be permitted to examine and cross-examine witnesses, as in courts of law." The noble earl said this amendment, he trusted, would prove satisfactory to the house. In cases of courts martial, their lordships need not be told, counsel :were only permitted to suggest questions to the party on trial, and the examination was conducted through the 'Judge Advocate and the President. The Duke of CUMBERLAND said that the amendment would alter the whole constitution of - courts martial. Earl GREY replied that it would only alter them in this one particular, for the general form still continued. The Earl of HARROWBY felt an unwillingness to adopt the amendment as respected courts martial. He thought it would alter the duties of the Judge Advocate,. who had indeed now an anomalous duty to perform, acting as counsel for the prisoner and assessor for the court. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought no inconvenience what ever would attend the adoption of the amendment. Undoubt edly the Judge Advocate was partly the counsel for the prose cution, partly adviser for the prisoner, and partly assessor to the court. The amendment did not add to the anomaly. Lord WYNFORD gave his support to the amendment proposed by the noble earl, because, although it was a departure from the form of courts martial, yet the jurisdiction was likewise different. Under the operation of the bill such offences were cognizable, but not so with ordinary cases of courts martial. After a few words from Lord BERESFORD. and Lord ELLEN- notiocan, the amendment was agreed to. Earl GREY proposed to introduce a clause as to signals; it was framed on the model of a similar clause in the Smuggling Act. It was to the following effect : " Be it enacted, that front and after the passing of this act, no person shall make, or aid or assist in making, any light, fire, bonfire, flash, blaze, or other signal; or by smoke or finng, fire works, firing of guns or other firearms, or by the blowing of horns, or by - the ringing of church, chapel, or other bells; or by other contrivance or device, give any notice, signal, or in timation to any person or persons engaged in illegal combina tions or assemblies against the provisions of this act; and that no person shall make or assist in making any such signals, or any_otber signals, to call persons to assemble together, or to act in concert together, for any purpose not warranted by law, or which is prohibited by this act, or to assemble in any un usual numbers to endanger the public peace; and if any, person shall, contrary to the act, make any such signals or notice, such persons shall be guilty of a misdemeanour; and every such offence so committed in any district proclaimed in pursuance of the . provisions of the act, shall be cognisable by court martial; and if not committed in any such district, shall be tried ana punished according to the course of the common law." ('kite latter part of the clause was in consequence of a sug gestion made by a noble lord, that signets were often made in a county adjoining the proclaimed eistrict. The Earl of LIA R ROWBY thought-the clause preferable to his own. he would suggest that signals were, in many cases, made to give notice of the march of troops. , 1 he clause was agreed to. Upon the motion of E 3.11. GREY, it was ordered that the clause :as amended, be printed. The report was then agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read .a.third time to-morrow. FRIDAY, Petitions were presented;—for the abolition of Negro Slavery, from _places in Montgomeryshire and Denbighshire, by .Lord Dinorben ; from Paddington, and Battersea, by the Bishop of London; from .Perth, by Lord Suffield ; from two different places in Nortampton shire, by the Earl of Oxford; for the better observance of the Sab bath, from - Inverness, by the Earl of Saltoun. Mr. Bernal, and other members from the Commons, presented to their lordships the report of the select Committee of the Commons, which had been appointed to consider of the better observance of the Lord's day, together with the evidence,adduced on the subject. RBANCES (IRELAND) SUPPRESSION BILL. Earl GREY moved the order of the day for the third reading► of the above bill. Lord TEYNHAM said he should strongly protest against this bill, as a gross infringement of the constitutional Union of England and Ireland. It was a measure which he deeply de plored, and he believed that ministers (as honest ministers, he admitted, as ever this country saw,) in bringing forward such a bill were acting under some unaccountable delusion or other. The Earl of WESTNIORELAND said, that after the statement made by the noble earl (Grey) on a former evening there could be little doubt of the necessity of passing into a law the bill ad verted to by the noble lord who had just addressed the house. He only regretted that the bill had not been left entirely to the ministers to arrange, without any alteration whatever being proposed by noble lords. He thought that his Majesty's mi nisters were deserving the thanks of the loyal people of Eng land and Ireland, for bringing forward this measure, nay, the poor deluded people of Ireland ought to be most thankful for this measure being carried into effect. Ou his own part, and op the part of those colleagues with whom he had been for so many years in the habit of acting during the reign of the late king George 111., he returned his Majesty's ministers his most hearty thanks. The bid was then read a third time and passed. CHANGE OF VENUE BILL. Earl GREY rose to move the second reading of a bill intitled " An Act to provide for the more impartial' Trial of Offences -sin- certain places in Ireland." The noble earl said this bill rested upon the same grounds as that which had just been pas se& viz. the disturbed state of Ireland. All such measures as this must rest upon the necessity of the case. (Bear, hear.) On that ground alone he rested his application for this measure. ile must add, however, that he had never executed a more painful duty than that.which was now imposed upon him by the necessity arising. out of the state of Ireland. 'this bill was in tended to give power to change the venue to the neighbouring county, or to Dublin. The history of Ireland unfortunately furnishes them with many precedents for a bill like this. The ,11th and 12th of George the Third referred to all the acts upon the subject ? and it was singular that at that time precisely the same species of offences were enumerated as the reasons for those acts now prevailing, viz. attacking houses for arms, the infliction of severe bodily punishnient upon those who resisted the daring violations of the law, the threats to .compel the relinquishment of leases, and above all, he offences arising out of tithes. In the &h section of the: act, the. intimidation of jurors was referred to as ren dering necessary the change of the venue. (Hear, hear.) In that act; the venue could wily be changed to Dublin, whereas, in the bill before the house, it might be changed if iraciici,ble to the adjoining county. Another improvement in this 101 l upon the former enactment was, that the venue could only be changed by the Court of King's Bench at the instance of the Attorney General, or of the person accused. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the duration of the bill, it was limited to the same period as that which had' just passed their lordship's house. The noble earl concluded by moving that the bill be read a secowl time. The Earl of WICKLOW said there was but one point on which he differed from the noble earl, namely, the duration of the bill for one year. Ile thought it should be made permanent. Lore. EL LEM:WWI:GiI observed, both sides seemed to wish (hut this restrictive measure should be removed, as soon as the necessity for its .existence should cease. (Hear, hear.) Ile was Ezi;tiried that much of the crime in Ireland had grown out ..l the koling that lawlessness had been permitted for a long time, and when at last it was punished, it was punished with vindictive severity. Earl GREY said, with respect to the duration of the bill, he thought it necessary to give the subject some consideration. 'hie Dial) CHANcuttort agreed with his noble friend (Earl Greq that it would not be advisable, without experience, to make this bill permanent. He agreed with the noble earl (Vs is low) ;n many of his sentiments, but this bill, along with the measure, with respect to Ireland, set out upon the assuglition that it was only the extraordinary state of Ireland thaticouic have Tendered the bringing ri,trwai,d of the nif:asure THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD. necessary. When the necessity ceased, there was an opportu nity to rescind these measures ; and most gratifying indeed - it would be to those who, from painful necessity, had introduced them. Lord CLONCURRY said, he expected the Jury Bill, about to be introduced into the other house, would do away with any necessity for the permanency of this measure, otherwise he would have been most anxious that, even at this time, it shouic.l be so established. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted on Tuesday. : _ HOUSE OF COIVUYIONS. WEDNESDAY, FIABRUARY EVICTION PETITIONS were received as -follows :—against the WIT.. wick election; to be taken int i consideration on Thursday; the 25th of April ; a petition against the return for Bristol, to be taken into consideration on Thni-sday, the ,2;itli of April ; a petition against the return for Carmarthen, to no taken into consideration on 1 hursday, the 25th of April ; a petition atrainst the return for the county of Lin lithgow, to be taken into consideration on Tuesday, tho3oth of April; a petition against the return for New Sarum, to be taken into consi deration on Tuesday, the 30th of April ; a petition against the return for the Stirling District of Burghs, to be taken into consideration on Tuesday, the 30th of April ; three petitions against the return for Warwick, were ordered to be taken into consideration on the 7th of May ; a petition complaining of the election for the South division of the county of Northumberland was ordered to be taken into consider ation on Thursday,. the 28th of March ; the petitions against the re turns for the borough of Bury . St. Edmunds, tor the eastern division of the county of Norfolk, and for the city of Lincoln, to be taken into consideration on Thursday, May 2nd. The &BAKER informed the house that, since he had taken the chair 'he had received a letter from Sir John Beresford, stating that it was not,his intention to make any defence against the petition presented against his return for the borough of Coleraine, the order for the con sideration of the petition was conserently discharged. -. • PETITIONS were presented :—against Negro Slavery, from It4 , druth, by Mr. PENnmivas ; from Idle, in Yorkshire, by Mr. Sinn:KLAN') for the better observance of the Sabbath, from two districts in the county of Derby, by Mr. STRUTT ; from the Wesleyan Methalists a district in Yorkshire, by Mr. STRICKLAND ; from Gravesend; . by Mr. Donnas ; for the abolition of tithes, from several places in Dssory by Mr. FINN he clearly saw that whilst,.on the one hand, relief was held out, on the other arbitrary measures were to be put into execution. I Mr. BEAUMONT looked at the present as a struggle between the member for Dublin and English good sense • and he was sure that the hon. member for Dublin would find himself by no means so powerful as Englishmen. He had to deal with a peo : pie more educated than the Irish, and less hurried away by I passion—a people who attended to the dictates of reason, and examined before theY decided on which side justice lay. The • English people felt indignant at the idea of despotism, but they would take this view of the case—that this was not the imposi tion of despotism, but the substitution of despotism—that it was the removal of the despotism of the lion. and learned member for Dublin into the hands of his Majesty's government. A proper time wonid come for expressing his sentiments more • fuhy, Ile now felt himself called upon as an English member to notice what had fallen from an Irish member. Mr. Riciinens lamented that ministers did not take a large and comprehensive view of the affairs of Ireland. He thought too much importance was attached to the agitation of the hon. and learned member for Dublin. He would in vain seek to agitate if the grievances of the people of Ireland did not make them ready to listen to any one who held out to them a pros pect of redress. (Hear.) 'lhe most oppressive of these griev ancei was the abominable system of extorting tithes for the support of a church in which the people had no interest. He saw that the tithes were passing away from the clergy in Ire land, and he did not wish that they should pass into the pockets of the landlords; on that account it was that he had given no ;ice of a bill to invest the tithes in the hands of trustees for the benefit of the poor, and in so doing he conceived that he proved himself not an enemy to the church but a friend to the poor. Mr. MAXWELL said he concurred with his Majesty's minis ' ters in the Measures of coercion which they contemplated for Ireland, without which he was convinced tie:re would be no se curity for life. or property in that country. He was sorry, how ever, that they were accomicT,pied by a measure to which he must offer his most:strenuous - opposition : he meant church re form. Ile must oppose that measure, because he conceived that it would be destinctive to the church in Ireland—which he was bound, and which that house was bound by the articles of union, to support.. ' Mr. GRATTAN remarked that the question had not been an . swered whether or not it was the intention of his Majesty's ministers to arm the new courts with the power of flogging. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with respect to the question which his hon. friend had put to him, he must beg to say that nothing could be more inconvenient than to answer questions as to the details of a measure which he should have to explain hereafter; when that measure was brought regularly before the house. But his hon. friend might rest assured that no power would be giYen to the courts martial as to punish ments which was not now possessed by civil courts. There would be no power of military punishment. With respect to the question whether the whole power possessed by civil courts should be given to the courts martial, that was still to be de cided, whenever the measure came before the house. Mr. SHELL rose for the purpose of setting the house right. The petition had been sent to him at the close of last session, and it adverted to measures then announced to be iu contem plation. If it was not to be regarded as applying to the mea sures now in progress, he could only say that if such indigna tion was expressed at strung measures of last session, what would be the feeling of that part of the people of England re ' specting the measures now proposed? Major BEAUCLERK said he should feel it his duty to oppose the threatened measures. He believed that his Majesty's mi nisters had none but good intentions towards Ireland : but, as he had some experience in courts martial he was bound to tell his Majesty's ministers that a worse court to try political cases, or cases in which party prejudice might operate, could not be formed; and he knew that the officers of the army thought so. Young men just come from school or college were not fit to try political cases. He was sure that the effect of the measure would be to separate Ireland from this country, and to plunge this country in misery and bloodshed. Mr. T. ATTWOOD feared that greater objects than the collec tion of tithes were aimed at by this tremendous measure, and that English blood would be profusely shed in our forcing it. The fear which oppressed his mind was that measures of the same kind would hereafter be directed against England, and that the Irish militia would be brought over to bayonet the people of this country. He felt it his duty, therefore, to ring the note of alarm to the people of England. When they were driven to desperation, as he feared they would be, and forced to take legal measures in their defence, he believed that the same system would be resorted to against them. .Let the members of. that house, therefore, take care that in suporting these mea sures they were not forging chains to be rivetted round them selves. Colonel PERCEVAL regretted to hear a gallant officer deal so harshly by courts martial. He had sat upon many courts martial, and found the members of them disposed on all occa sions, to giire a merciful consideration to the case of the prisoner, so far as they could do so consistently with their oaths and duty. With regard to the measures of his Majesty's ministers, he must say that if they did not go the length they did, it would be better not to have legislated at all, for nothing less would give protection to life and property. But he must deprecate the spoliation of the church. The petition was laid on the table. SITTINGS AND BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. The order of the day for resuming . the adjourned debate re specting the sittings of the house having been read, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved a set of resolu tions for its regulation, upon which a long discussion ensued; and ultimately the following arrangement was agreed to : " That this house do meet every day, except Saturday, or such day as shall be appointed for election petitions being taken into considera tion, at 12 o'clock at noon, for private business and petitions, and do continue to sit until 3 o'clock, unless the business be sooner disposed of." The house divided ; ayes 133 ; noes, 5. That when such business has been disposed of, if before 3 o'clock, or at 3 o'clock precisely, notwithstanding there may be business under discussion, Mr. Speaker do leave the chair without putting any question. That business thus interrupted be taken up again on the next sit- ting day, as an adjourned debate, in preference to other business of the same kind. That Mr. Speaker do resume the - chair at 5 o'clock. " That if a house be not formed before a quarter-past 12 o'clock, for the sitting between 12 and 3, Mr. Speaker do then take the chair, and count the house,. and if 20 members be not present, do adjourn the house till 5 o'clock ; ~and in like manner when the house is to meet at 5 o'clock, pursuant to adjournment, if the house be not formed before a quarter-past 5 o'clock, Mr. Speaker do then take the chair, and count the house, and if 40 members be not then present do adjourn the house till 12 o'clock the next day, unless such day be Saturday, in which case Mr. Speaker do - adjourn the house to Monday at twelve o'clock." 1 That when Mr. Speaker resumes the chair at 5 o'clock, or a house is formed at 5 o'clock, pursuant to adjournment, the house will imme -1 diately proceed to the business of the day as set down in the Order book. • That committees have power to sit from ten o'clock in the forenoon, and have leave to sit during the sitting of the house. That this house do meet un Wednesday next, at twelve o'clock, pur suant to the said resolutions. That a select committee be appointed at the commencement of each session, to which shall bereferred allpetitions presented to the house, with the exception of such as complain of undue returns, or relate to private bills ; and that such committee do classify the same, and pre pare abstracts of the same in such form and manner as shall appear to them best suited to convey to the house all requisite information re . soecting their content fla same from time to time to noose ; t hwt slum. reports uo m of signatures to each petition. And that such committee have power to direct the printing in exienso of such petitions, or of such parts of petitions as shall appear to require it. That the following be members of the committee :—Sir Robert Peel, Mr. Hume, Mr. O'Connell, Sir Edward Knatchbull, Colonel Davies, Mr. Littleton, Mr. James Oswald, Mr. Clay, Mr. George Wm. Wood, Sir Robert Inglis, Sir Richard Vyvyan—tive to be the quorum. That the t3ergeant-at-Arms attending this house do, from time to time, when the house is going to prayers, give notice thereof to all com mittees, and also at five o'clock, when the Speaker has taken the chair ; and that all proceedings of committees, after such second notice, be de clared to be null and void, Oana'as AND NOTICES.—That in this present session of Parliament, all orders of the day set down in the order-book for Mondays and Fri days, shall be disposed of before the house will proceed upon any mo tions of which notices shall be entered in the order-book. THURSDAY. NEW WRITS were ordered for the election of members—for the city of London, in the room of Robert Waithman, Esq., deceased ; and for the northern division of the county of Southampton, in the room of Viscount Milton, now Earl Fltzwilliam. PETITIONS were presented :—against nocturnal legislation, from Fal kirk, by Mr. Git. Lox ; against negro slavery, from Burlington and another place, by Mr. P. B. THOMPSON ; from Ballyragget and another parish in the county of Kilkenny, for a reform of the grandjury system, for the extinction of tithes and church-rates, and for the restoration of a domestic legislature, by Color; el BUTLER ; for the repeal of the corn laws, from 4000 inhabitants of the borough of Leicester, by Mr. W. PRIVILEGE, Mr. Ewea complained of a breach of privilege. He had seen, with disgust, a statement put forth in the public prints that the 'majority. who had voted against the motion of the lion. member for Middlesex on a former evening were, as a matter of course, supporters and upholders of naval and military sinecures. (Hear, hear.) Now he had voted in that majority, but he denied that he was a supporter of any such sinecures. Ale voted upon that occasion taking the motion of the hon. member as an abstract question, the hon. meinher appearing on the occasion to have directed his observations, not against sinecures generally, but against a single appointment which had recently taken place. When tie question upon which that hon. member laid so much stress came fairly before the house, he (Mr. Ellice) trusted that he should discharge his duty to himself and his constituents as, fairly and impartially as the hon. member for Middlesex could pretend to do, (hear, hear;) hut, in the mean time, he would say, that the statement to which he alluded was utterly false, and altogether a misrepresenta tion of the feelings and motives of hon. memoers ; namely, that the majority on the occasion in question were supporters of naval and military sinecures. (Hear.) Mr. Hume said his object in making the motion alluded to was to do away with the practice of -rewarding . naval or military service with sinecures ; and he was justified in saying that those who opposed him were favorable to that system. (Hear, hear.) ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. WALTER presented a petition from Reading, for the re peal or more equal apportionment of the assessed taxeS. - The hon. member declared his hearty concurrence in the prayer of the petitioners whose views he should support to the utmost of his power. Zvi r. R. PALMER also supported the prayer of the petition, and expressed his hope that the noble lord would afford relief, in order to prevent disappointment. Mr. lIIJALE agreed with the hon. member for Berkshire, that if relief were not afforded, the public would be disappointed; the way to afford relief was to reduce the taxation. Mr. O'CONNELL said he hoped that ministers bad received information of the manner in which their atrocious measures had been received in Ireland, not by persons called agitators, but by persons disposed to place the greatest confidence in the government of the Marquis of Angiesey. He could assure ministers that their measures had been received with infinitely more indignation by those persons than by the persons opposed to the policy of government here. When it was recollected that the government acted through the instrumentality of de cided Tories, it was not surprising that means should be adopted by them to lay . the foundation of a civil war, and make it an aostraet duty with Irishmen to consider their connection with England as only tending to inflict mischief on their -unfortun ate country. Mr. PHILLIPS called to the recollection of the hon. and learned member for Dublin that there were quite enough of Irish debates, without introducing them upon a petition rela tive to,the'assessed taxes. The repeal of the house tax Would be a relief only to the metropolis, the cities and large 'towns, while it would augment the burthen of taxation upon the rest of the country. It there was an equalisation according -to the value of the Louse, it should have his support; but if it were intended that houses should be valued according to their size and supposed appearance, and not their real value, he must oppose such an alteration. It was necessary that something should be done for the relief of the people. It would not do to be talking,, night after night, making long speeches from which no good resulted. 'What the people of England wanted was cheap government, and they would receive that with more satis faction than all the long speeches made in the house. Mr. F. O'CoNNoit deprecated the idea that discussions as to Ireland were not to be mixed up with the debates. In England the question was one of taxation, in Ireland it wa's a question of life and death. It was not only necessary, but the bounden duty of every member sent to represent Irish feeling, to oppose the proposed measures. Petition laid on the table. TITRES. Mr. - SEIEIL presented a petition from Maidstone, Kent, against the measures to compel the payment of tithe. The hon. member observed that ministers had brought into the other house au act of parliament by which courts martial were to be created. 'the several offences referred to in the act were sub ject to the punishments of courts martial—one of which was whipping. He doubted the wisdom of punishing any iffeuces by whipping; if to this punishment of whipping was attached the least renewal of those scenes which, notwithstanding a lapse of 30 years, were still fresh in the recollection oreland. The lord, in introducing his measure, had under-rated the church lands—it was the value of £700,000 or £BOO,OOO —he had left out the glebe lands, he hadleft out 48 parithes that paid tithes (no, DP) ; at all events he had left out the sur plice fees. Sir F. BURDETT said that the petitioners were mistaken, that the proposed measures were not for the purpose of enforcing the payment of tithe in Ireland. Though the courts martial tried offences, they were to punish by the law of the land. No such idea as the punishment of whipping was ever entertained by. any man. Mr. WARBURTON must say that the effect of the measures would be such as was described in the petition. If the pleasures gave satisfaction, there would be no complaint, and he would agree that they were not intended to put down complaints upon the subject of tithes; but when he found, in the evidence before the tithe committee, the crown solicitor stating that the simple transfer of payment would not give satisfaction, and that tithe must be abrogated—when he saw no measure for that-purpose about to be introduced—when he found all the wituesse;. say, " Settle the matter at once"—when he heard that this was to be an opeh question in the cabinet—and when he heard vittiPera tion for leaving the question open, thou he must say that he thought the complaints contained in this petition were just, and that these measures of coercion were intended to repress coui plaints upon the subject of tithe. He hoped that these coin plaints of the people of Maidstone would be followed up by com plaints from the whole body of electors. When he Beard that the' measures proposed for ,a remedy fell - short of their object, and that the other measures would not tranquillise Ireland, then he said it was time for the people of England to turn their atten tion to the subject, and to call upon the government at once to give a final settlement to the question of tithes. Mr. O'CONNELL was glad to find Englishmen coming forward as a protection to Irishmen. He could not see this first symp tom of good will without hailing it with delight and pleasure, from a conviction that, if ministers did not use expedition, the sound sense of England would come forward and protect Ireland Irvin more atrocious measures. He had seen the pro posed plan in the newspapers—a power was given to a majority of three officers in five to inflict punishment. The hon. mem ber only exposed his ignorance when he attempted to deny that this did not include au unlimited power of flogging. Ile was old enough to remember that when courts martial existed, Sir Edward Crosby, a loyal gentleman, was dragged from his residence before a court martial, of which a major of dragoons was the presiding officer, and asked, amongst other questions, "You are a gentleman of rank—how does it happen that you never entertained any of the officers of the garrison?" He was convicted and executed, although as innocent as any man in this house could be. Did the hon. baronet think that Irish men had not the feelings of liberty? They would stand by the constitution as long as a rag of it remained. The hon. baronet was mistaken if he said that the proposed measures were not calculated and intended to enforce tithes. If tithes were not paid in a district, would it not be immediately proclaimed ? Wo to the mail who did not pay tithes! The pretence of refusal brought hipi under the IV hiteboy Acts. He should be told that the sensibly awl souPd people ot . Maidstone were mistaken, but BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS. Mr. JOHN BENETT presented a petition, signed by 3,010 mer chants, tradesmen, and others, of the town of Liverpool, com plaining of the gross corruption carried on in that borough by bribery and other means at all elections, as well for Mayor and other corporate officers, as for Members of parliament. The petitioners stated, that notwithstanding that the new electors under the Reform Bill had done their duty honestly, yet so great was the corrupt influence with the freemen, that disgrace still rested upon the town, and they prayed for the disfranchise ment of those freemen altogether, as the only means of purify ing the borough. This subject might now be considered rather stale, as he (Mr. Benett) had on two former occasions brought in bills with the same view that was now prayed for in this pe. 4tion, namely to disfranchise the freemen. Those bills, how- Sir R. VYVYAN said, that as yet he had io nobl e l or d whether they were to confin iation s from charters, or to attack the le still maintained the opinion, that a cor f Commons was an unfit tribunal for con, wiry on the subject. He agreed with hi le member for Kent, that its appointmer iii o p e e :ou c iti t rida. t ic h t, a iri: u t at. a ai chart ers ncd N7l) bme elßa absu r d a,.lota ilBuecorporations.pdpifsuppose ion of what might be expected hereafter, leasuresarre o , f a reformed parliament, affoi rise him to find patents of nobility treater marnine all the accounts of all the corpo parities, and the repairs examination of the corporatio ec n urtleh o tsa f yPte l l' teded, if it were known that the committee amine into this or other corporations. The petition was laid on the table. M. Arrwoo D gave notice that he shoull ''scrod the order. Mr. Tr.it . -•,r (Monmouth) read a letter fro rome roingivEi T n U ngg E lt: K n l tdh N ,e G oF BELGIUM'S D etAlrll of the movies paid into the Excht ,11,.i.tY granted to his royal highness as the I `es r s, of Wales. e o r n t t h . p e r o: , `JllaticELLott of the EXCHEQUER sa afterE f Exchequer hl certainegu ,i v i . e n t ue had been applied to the payment ( le a , as was usual in such calculations, lan had been supposed. (Hear.) He ha otiosity felt by the hon. mover; and, on Ee received was, that the debts were not e.re the charges, that at first the truster ieekwF.re now over, and the country woull i ii i l i t g y 004113elgium refused to act, for fear c ikil o,llll7. t is he N r i n a s j e e l s v ty es ,s . e ( n H e e ro a s r i , t h . ear.) Tln t t at ' e -11 debt. He wished to know whether lea of the King of the Belgians, he did eei) . ‘ Do r i tit l e t , it t u o it h z e o a x r was hat as w t it o h n shed, and iii il e s Mere throne, throne, and bei d a u ii.irietisof his income from this county i llu i tY : wil4n i i r ll s g elf ) di li ss e olv v litests and connections. l r * HALL withdrew his motion. PUBLIC WALKS, &C. m l i d me m ma a ne i d n ai ta lie te i en n i yto th t a hE t et 04 ; the motion of Mr. SLANEY, a c sr pointed, "to consider the best meat aces in the immediate vicinity of popul It's, calculated to promote the health ever, let the house remember, were founded on the committee of that house, before whom the most gross faced bribery was proved to have been practised in the and he (Mr. Benett) was now fully prepared to prove all doubt or suspicion, that on a recent election threel freemen had been bribed with money. This new bribe fore it was that the petitioners now complained of, and 1 it might have been stale to revive the former grounds plaint, this recent corruption created a new necessity interference of the house to enforce an enquiry into the so notoriously existing in this town. He should therefol for a select committee to inquire into those new acts of 1 stated in the petition, preparatory to his bringin g in a the subject. Lord SANDON said that he did not feel disposed at pre, go at any length into the merits of the petiti on WI hon. friend had just presented to the house, particular better opportunity for his doing so would arise when b friend should bring forward the measure of which l spoken; but he (Lord Sandon) could not help agreeie his hon. friend that it was now rather too late to net question of bribery at the election of Liverpool, seeing had already been so frequently b roug ht before the house hon. friend to little purpo se . Si nce th e per i o d w h en hI friend first brought forward this subject, three election taken place at Liverpool, of which two were wholly' peached, and the third was complained ofonly by a dissapo party, who had collected money for the alleged purpose' peaching the election, but had shrunk from prosecuting threat before the proper tribunal, w h ere th e matter woo l undergone a rigid investigation, under the sanction of ae which could not be the case in the mode of proeeedit which the petitioners now called, before a select coin where witnesses could not be sworn; and this party, so . ! pointed, now took advantag e o f a mere rumour, that er, had been practised; for if th e y h a d b een i n a s i tuat i on to t any thing of the kind they would not h ave s h run k f ront so; and this rumour lie had no doubt wa s p ro p agate d by selves. He would pledge himself that he had a perfee viction that there was no act of bribery practised by any ; supporters at the election all u d e d t o , unless, perhaps, soe judicious friend might have g i ven a g l ass of ale to an 1 (A laugh.) The party to which he alluded were also , pointed that the Reform Bill did no t wor k so we ll to the ir; faction as they expected. He should now say nothing fii but would go more at length into the subject when bit, friend should bring forward his motion. Mr. Wesoel said that he had not the slightest doubt lie , noble lord who had just spoken believed the assertions ll'j made to be true, but he (Mr. Wason) had no doubt alse t there was no foundation whatever for those assertions. im , HOME, receipts and expenditure of the PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. reason that money may not have been so lavishly spent at°,i e b. r ; ticeie, pursuant to notice, moved tions of late years was, that there was no money to spenl e : e A to fie estimates for the charges of co it was a notorious fact, that the last election for Mayor e l!'ilt system of accounts was very defer °tinting to E 4,000,000, the same as the verpooi cost upwards of £BOOO, and this was a most base of demoralizing the lower classes. Is the allegation of tb' peltrZtion could be in no way checked by t ble lord, that no bribery took place, to be taken in prcfe l a zltee navy, &c. At present the iteir to the statement of the 3,000 petitioners who had si r o ts the Exchequer department, so as petition ? He (Mr. Wason) should feel that he had aoti, e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER charged his duty if he had not noticed the assertions of tble.° SSA and and expenditure; and those 'ten ble lord. It was rather too much for the noble lord W l ei r plain of the forbearance of the petitioners as regarded. 11 1 ; a s e to judge of the fitness of subset turn at the last election, particularly as the fourteen daep r e g_es• presenting election petitions had now elapsed. He woule - m° 'notion was eventually withdrawn. the noble lord, was it not a notorious fact, that at one of De r • LIGHT HOUSES. polling booths of the noble lord the voters were brought s .. t r e cleste said that he had now to subir such a state of intoxication that the clerk refused to take i i , len of a very different nature, to whi sieerable reduction in those duties. Hi votes, and was not the carriage of the noble lord seen le I,, Le i° ll would be offered. The subject i i streets of Liverpool, while the noble lord himself was ill' ties rileortance to the shipping interes when _ea,bject up, because he understood tha with a number of drunken freemen on the dickey ? (Laugh litl levied upon it to defray the charges How did the noble lord account for the extraordinary so ' e "'es. In the year 1821, when he f .aule report full of details upon it. In t he met with on the second day of polling, when on the firs' ?revert", he hoped that his exertions w his opponent was 600 a-head on the poll ? Did not this , oer the bajury which these duties intli from the freemen holding back till the second day, were sure to have their regular price ? The petitioners an trade had taken it under their cs prayed for an inquiry into these most flagrant abuses, and inquiry ought not to be withheld. t reated in 1823, they pointed out in a 1 Mr. WARBURTON said that he perfectly agreed with the 4 Navin .lle was sorry to say that 'instead member who had just spoken that this was a case that oug e s ' cst They eid not question he right be inquired into. The noble lord said that no abuse had o r es °f Public lights to priv a t e i ll ei vi eua place, or undue influence been used by any of his suppo t es the present leases fed. in they sl but how could the noble lord kn ow w h a t might pass l o t should be granted to the Trinity Boar( two persons on the occasion of an election ? He (Mr. e':a. to Mr. Coke, and other private int. burton) was certainly opposed to unseating a member oli Twine been adopted, the Duugenesi ground of bribery, unless it were distinctly proved; but he M ari.,ich, at Orfordness, and at \Vie decidedly for instituting inquiries on all such occasions. Mr. Beeerr, in explanation, said that he should confine t ?, which a tax of £30,000 h a d been in self at present to giving notice that on Thursday next he sb ' I T nave - . He would read the amount move for a select committee on the petition. een incurred by the shipping interes Q.+ f_ CORPORATION REFORM. Nance with an ' -4 these leases. The leases of Wint Mr. M. ATTWOOD rose to present a petition from the le , ‘, . alth an order of that house are that in 21 months alter the renews chant Tailors' Comany of the city of London complaini 4 pa s family and £ll,OOO to the Com a petition that had . been presented to that house, on MO seta over and above the expense of m last, from a person named Robert Hugh Franks, and le, (1 le, ;.'t 1 : 2 2,000, of which Ell,OOO wen was ordered to be referred to the committee on corpora The petitioners complained that the character of their bodY de e re ,!te• Now that tease had been rt been grossly traduced and calumniated in that petition,. is „ie e r i two ministers to the contrary prayed that it might not be referred as ordered to the cone c‘ rl e had no prerogative to tax apc on corporations, e t4 e x benefit of another portion by' u Mr. HILL, by whom the petition alluded to had been e was in for the purpose of In sented, mentioned that it was a very fit petition to be ref ere a a uet io,t to exceed the expanse o to the committee on corporations; for the company , 'les I the last 40 years the lights plained of was a trading company, and a constituent port' vat s i the corporation of the city of London, for it was well k mi, hdividuals. It would be his du' ed produced no less a sum th that no man, unless he belonged to one of the trading co e 4ell he was going to move, and t nies, could vote either for a common-council-man, or fora elov as no objection, were laid upon t son to fill any appointment or office in the city of London gh t ? for a select committee to see le before the reform bill passed for a member of parliame use rJe reduced or otherwise altered. e TI • the city. l i at bungencss produced i:80U0 I Sir E. KNATCHBULL wished to ask the noble lord wh he Zia ,-am Jell Xleoo a year, whilst the committee in question was ‘ empowered to investigate the h ,e already stated, produced aen cuniary affairs of large trading companies,. and whether it ~,, , e p to state, that since the ye, his intention to submit such a petition as that under deli s ere r reduced the charges for ' o;i i rt‘vt, or r s est required rhe by n t . h m e cm present e t h d c, tion to the consideration of the committee ? kl. 4. . full one half ; but he was of opinit The CHANCELLOR of the EYCHEQUER said it never win isi t i:i tag s of sums levied upon the mere intention, in appointing the committee, to have referred , s any matters connected with a private or trading corpora (Hear, hear.) The committee had to do with municipal ' d e , ;Peones. In the Year 1828, when porations, and those only. As to the petition in question eeee . e amount of rafes levied for lig thought it ought not to have been referred to that corneal ts a ,7,, a in or X 34,000; and in It as that body had not power to deal with it. s,th e re t lof £I39,(XX). If to this sum w Sir B. PEEL thought the most regular course for them to e e '- private lights which he had just sue would be to rescind the order for referring the petitio se . a total of 1:168,000 thus levied upon rico there were seven other private fig the committee, as, according to the statement of the noble 14 the committee had not power to deal with it. (Hear, h Isi s tleit obtai ne d a return o f i n co me, b The Court of King's Bench wa s o p en , if anylelisconclacteeie e ss r eale, he thought that he might t. been committed by the rulers of the c om pa n y, an d it was bM eee a ,lsed bv lighthouses at £18.5,000 c for that house not to assume the exercise of any powers er 111,1 8 inat the whole of this system w it was not fully recognized t o p ossess . li4 th h uPeose th a t i n se l ec ting individua , The SPEAKER said that, if th e committee had not poet re e i t , e uses, care would be taken to s deal with the petition, a ref erence t o it wou ld no t g i ve it th the rier acquainled with their inanag tpower. thee, the house felt that the committee had.'eee "a and naval affairs. This care he power, house would rescind the order, with a view to lest, e () , Tl , l4.l el generally exercised, but such the petition on the table, to be dealt with as the house might se e leet s h ; - 1 and Ireland. He had got a -lis Mr. HOME said, that as to the question whether this tiers, 'vas who were all of them eittic municipal corporation or a trading corporation, he believe k h e ''l. , the Provost of Glasgow, the the question were asked what trade it carried on, the ape tune ete ff riepute of Lauark, and other: would be, none. But it certainly hail the power of influen e ge i t rae nut one naval man in weer. },e ei—e:— e -.--- -,-, --a 1 ........-L sr • ri'. this . . ' s e e , se" ha le 'IQ 431,000 a-year to Fpuurl i liverymen in the city of London, and company 'night a t, hose ;• They had a very able man from one to twenty, or a thousand, in one day. This, he thou po lit to suppose that they knew any brought it under the description of a municipal corporation• le li,,tion too preposterous to be enter had no hesitation, therefore, in saying that the committee ee e ',',' „Scotland was bad, Ireland was st power to deal with it. intls s " . 150 ard at Dublin, which had the r The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he had th .un the coast of Ireland, and of Si) , expressed any opinion whether the company was a municiel baehltr Maintenance and erection. '1 a trading corporation, and was not prepared to give any oPwetee'"ers, not one naval man acted wits on the point. illi e oot be over the shipping interest Mr. O'CONNELL thought the best course would be for the re it required. He felt that it was tl officers of the crown to advise his Majesty's ministers whWers - eo qer these duties as light as possible upon the facts, this was a municipal or a trading corporatietearet e Merce very rigorously. lie was It was necessary that the house should ascertain that. If it else ) , w'' w ere fenced round with charters, a trading corporation, or even a trading corporation with c' e se e re not un w illin g to meet Govern] ties attached to it, the committee clearly could have nothing o .0 se that the Trinity Board i do with it. But as it appeared that it influenced the el e ctie .t , a I Q . justice to the charge reposed i. members for the city of London, and of the sheriffs and the h A the same of the Scotch baillies at corder, all these were municipal functions—and so far the e,Teut lighthouses, nor of the Iris' tany was a municipal corporation, and, if so, it came within term of the order. , i,_ ?relies. (A laugh.) he was q s e w ' i Lit3', knew less. The lights oug Mr, BARING said, that the committee was not enepowereet , . t guts those northern lights entirely, it certainly ought not to be empowered, to inquire into the perty of these bodies, or the manner in which such property iv _Uter;-, was done upon this subj et disposed of. That would be establishing a tyranny whicre, e fie wleit had been done since the re ee"w the Teallast Board to exist an] people ought to resist, as the most dangerous of all descrie ii, *'Y aware of the improvements e of tyranny. If he were examined as a member of such boat ie. ; §ut what he wanted to ascertain ; ,, 4 , i assed by these private lights by should feel it his just duty to resist any question put to him w committee as to the disposal of property that belonged to ' eie, exercise of the prerog,ative. The or the corporation. He was not without apprehension . powers of this description, if once admitted, might grove t e, t• sum s thus paid by the owners great abuse. There was this difficulty . in the present cases- - e to e country was obliged to pay eve the petition did not relate to the municipal or trading charn el tip the the proprietors of these lights. es . tr i n'which he looked upon this ma or functions of the Merchant Tailorf Company, but referee" ~,,,1 0 ,e the reciprocity system, the Br some alleged mal-application of their funds. Now he held , 0 by treaty to defray all the extra with that question the committee had nothing to do. He the 1 ' S has to pay in our ports, beyond I the best course would he to rescind the order. Mr. WARBURTON said it was clear that this company cal on no trade, but exercised the same functions as corporat in provincial towns and boroughs. If this committee had power to deal with it, surely it was fitting that sufficient pal should be given either to it or to some other committee.