The Sun. — London, England, 1847-04-13 00:00:00

TELE „..:obtained the fide of Captain, he was entitled to rank ;'_ l ' Ice Colonel s o f th e o th er reg i men t s . It was against __bill' s ystem that he (Mr. Williams) entered his protest a Protest that was of double force in the present cir 4,,agances.fthe country. P r esent PECHELL referred to the naval force at Pre sent employ e d on t h e coas t o f Af r i c a, for the sup pression of the slave trade, which was alleged to he c ombined with t h e A mer i can an d t h e F renc h navies, for _s°a t purpo se , and thought that it was extraordinary , to say the l east o f it, that no documents had been laid before the H ouse , to s h ow h ow t hi s o bject was carried out, and whether an irregularities had .eiqen from joint captures by the three countries. Consider t h e a rduous tin tless and the fearful risk of life whiee o e officers and men o n t h at stat i on h a d to un d erg o, he could nut conceal his indignation at the wholesale s ystem of pursued by the p l under which was Admira lty Court. at the Cape, when called upon to adjudicate upon the prize looney which was due to them—the produce of the "tared slave vessels. He found that in a recent case rthis kind, a slave ship, the Diana, captured by one of s r Majesty's ships, sold for 559/. From thi s sum ' t , 3l - 17s. was deducted by the Admiralty Court, leaving ).,* captors only for their share 285/. 3s. The Hon. and $e Member instanced other cases of the same kind. called on the Secretary of the Admiralty to see to these things, and to put matters in such a train that justice would be done to those men who risked their Yes in their country's service, on this pestilential coast. Mr. WARD said that with respect to the first obser vation of the Hon. and Gallant Member, no joint cap tures had yet been made by the ships of the three cations employed on the coast of Africa, and as re garded the system pursued by the Vice -Admiralty Court L it the Cape, he could assure the Hon. and Gallant Member, and his assertion would be borne out b y his had and G a llant Friend beside him, that no co m p laints cad reached this country of mismanagement in the busi- Ilesa of these Courts. It was the desire of the Govern ment that every precaution should be adopted to pre serve the health o f the officers and men employed on the coast of Africa, and for that purpose steamers were employed for the purpose of entering and explor in g the rivers, and such preventatives, against the influence of the climate as experience dictated, had been adopted. He could assure the lion. and Gallant Member that the circumstances W hich he had brought under the notice of the House should have the utmost attention from the Government. SUPPLY. The House then went into Committee. Mr. WARD said, that after the lengthened observa tions which had been made that night, and the discus sion which had already taken place on the naval estimates, he did not intend to occupy their time, but would con tent himself by simply moving the remaining votes. On the motion that 42,2701. he granted for the wages of artificers and labourers employed in dockyards abroad, Mr. WILLIAMS said it appeared to him that the naval department of the public service required more looking into than any other, and seeing the great increase from year to year, he had looked into the estimates for the last fourteen years, and found that in the course of that time the sum of 22,800,000/. had been expended in the dockyards, including the building and repairing ships, and purchase of stores. The country ought to be satis fied as to what had become of these enormous sums. The Hon. Member then referred to a letter which ap peared yesterday in the columns of a morning paper, signed J. Ryder Burton—an officer of judgment and ex perience, pointing out that unless the Admiralty arrested the progress of the ships now building, it would be found that they would be totally unfit to maintain their position as blockading ships, or fight their guns in bad weather, with a heavy sea; and complained that the Government persevered in building those ships, notwithstanding the evidence they had received on the subject from naval and scientific men. He had thought it necessary to make these remarks; but he confessed he had no hope of being able to procure a reduction in the estimate this year. Lord INGESTRIE must also add a hope that here after these estimates would be as much as possible eco nomised consistent with the due maintenance of the effi ciency of the service. He was rejoiced to see that the Admiralty had improved the sytem of promotio n in the li dock-yar ds , and he s i n cerely trusted the Admiralty would Dot relax their efforts to encourage and advance the naval architecture of the country. lie should be glad to hear from some Member of the Admiralty what was doing With that &ass of ship known as the Albion class? A variety of experiments had recently been made with r espect to the merits of different ships, and he had never Seen the report made by Admiral Sir H. Parker c the first experimental squadron. He th ou g ht it of the greatest importance that all the information that could u be obt a i ne d on th ese points should be laid before house. His position was that there were scien tific men av a il a bl e at t h e p resen t moment who were able to build better ships than the present surveyors. It was c ertain that th e steam vessels built by the present sur leyors were very defective in their construction. A Committee had been appointed in 1844 to investigate tn_e, merits of th e different ships in the navy and he wish e d t o k n o w if that analysis, which fe, believ e d h a d b een a care ful one, would be 'a i l?, before th e H ouse. H e hoped some tribu- SI would be established by which real merit would be encouraged. A s t h e fi rst mar i t i me na ti on in the world, th e yought to have th e b es t nav y i n the world, and this could only be done by ca lli ng i nto requ i s ition the scien tific resourc es o f t h e nat i on. Be f ore h e sa t down, he Wished to k now if any s hi ps had b een sent t o m ake a surrey of the coast of New Zealand ? Mr. WARD said it would be to no purpose to expect anything like an unani mous op i n i on w ith respect t° the ” merits of the Albion class of vessels. There ""e as much cl . • ..es • diversity of opinion with regard to authtp•bu P art i sansi 1 dm g ,as there was with regard to religion ; and of each system were quite es zealous in the OPagationof their views, as the adherents of each re eoutlx ,et_mt. In r e pl y to the lion. Member's q uestion, lie would say that h e did not know that there was any intention of He felt Admiralty of establishing the screw very . much obliged to the Hon. Member for his scutusestions, many of which had proved most valuable.— Sir C. NAPIE r, hear.) last opened its R was eery glad that the House had at do so for the laNys' for he had been endeavouring to a disgrace tot e eyears. lie did think that it was used as the AlbionAd miralty and to permit such vessels to be douslAboukir, which rolled tremen 3, so that under a small weight of canvass they could not fight deckers their guns. Now, the three which were at present on the stocks , it Was fair t o presume, would roll equally if they were isbt!ilt upon th e p l an of the surveyor's iepoit. For the last fi fty years, all the ve sse l s i n the navy had been bu ilt uponplan of one or two pers ons, whethe r that the was right or wrong. The surveyor a s hould only report upon the timber and iron in the o .7 a Ps dow an e t d i the shipwrights in the different ports should and the to construct vessels upon their own plans, a Yw o uld have better vessels, as they would have competition between t them.— H ear, hear.) He did not allude to s part of the s !am•vessels, as be had gone over that the House again —but service so often that he would not trouble of the ex if they wanted the return, fectly astounded. aste pense s of the Queen's yacht they would be per of them they would it h ave t o give They were tremendous. Yet in spite would votetfoolrneicas in her present one she had to get up a new one, and he on a chair out of the windows. The vot e was th en agreed to. a , The next vot e was 1,556,498/. for the expenses con tingent upon maritime stores. Mr. HUME said that a great amount of money had been wasted upon the construction of vessels. He con sidered that an enquiry was absolutely necessary. ‘s Such an o ffi cer as Sir Wm. Symonds ought to 13 removed, as, since he came into office, 10 ,000,0001. had been expended upon vessels, and not one good o ne had been turned out. For fifteen years this system of misrule had been carried on, and he wanted the Government to declare what they meant to do in redressing these matters. If the Hon. and Gallant Admiral (Sir C. Napier) would take the sense of the House on the question, the would certainly Vote with him on it. If he judged aright of the reports which had been made to the Admiralty, they all con demned, in toto, the system pursued by Sir W. Symonds. Now, what he wanted the Government to do, was to pro duce these reports to the House, and then it would be seen what was really the truth. It was said that there had not been a single ship turned out by Sir W. Symonds but what had cost one-fourth of her original expense in altering and impr.ving her, to make her fit for service. Captain BERKELEY did not rise to defend the Ad miralty generally. but he rose to defend Sir William Symonds from the attacks made up.m him. Lle would call the attention of the House to th, :',et, that both during the late, as well as the present Aainiralty, the greatest compliment had been paid that gentleman for the ships he had constructed. It had been said that he had turned out no good ships, but, in answer to that, he would point out the Vernon and Cleopatra, two of the finest ever launched. Lord INGESTRE thought there were many things in the navy that required full inquiry into, and in order to do so, a Committee ought to be appointed. But it should be a full and searching inquiry, that all the facts might be brought out. Sir C. NAPIER, said he would move, in place of the sum proposed by the Government, as an amendment, that it be 1,500,0001. In doing so, he would remark that in his observations he confined himself to Sir Wil liam Symond's line of battle ships alone, and not to his small vessels or frigates, to which he had paid but little attention. Captain PEC HELL defended Sir Wro. Symonds from the attacks made upon him. During the American war they endured the greatest mortification, because their ships did not equal in sailing qualities the ships of their opponents. But now, thanks to Sir W. Symonds, their I navy was wonderfully improved in this particular. Let them compare them with the French navy. Why, Prince de Joinville, in his report, declared that even a smart breeze paralysed had' the guns of their three deckers, and this could scarcely be alleged against the British ships. lle did not know what was the ob ject of the Gallant Admiral in this amendment, but he (Captain Peehell) for one, would not vote against the ropes or the canvass, or any other of the naval stores, merely because he wished to pass some censure on Sir 'William Symonds. While on this subject he would wish to know what the Government intended to do with a very valuable invention by a gentleman (:fir. Jet Tray) for the caulking of ships ? It was a most useful discovery, and one calculated to sa ve a very great sum to Govern ment. Mr. WARD said that the marine glue had given very great satisfaction, and he hoped that it would receive the favourable consideration of the Rouse at some future period. Sir C. NAPIER said that lion. Gentlemen seemed to consider that his amendment was intended as a sort of censure on Sir W. Sytnonds. He intended it for no thing of the kind. All he desired was, to express bis disapprobation of the manner in which the public stores had been wasted for years past. He had cer tainly expressed his opinion of Sir William Symonds mode of building ships of the line, but he had done so candidly and openly. He would not on this oocasion put :1,. , House to the trouble of dividing, if the Secre tary to the Admiralty would give the House soin-t hope that a Committee would be afLerwards appointed to exa mine into this subject. Mr: WARD could not give any hope of the kind. If the evil existed to which the Gallant Admiral re ferred, the present Board of Admiralty would endea vour to remedy it, but he saw no necessity for a Com mittee. awl he could hold out no promise that such would he „ppointed. Tile vote was then agreed to. A vote of 559,6001. for new works, improvements, and rep4irs in naval stations was agreed to. the sum of 22,839/. for medical stores, was also agreed to. The sum of 59,8471. for miscellaneous services was agreed to. On the vote of 725,7881. to defray the charge of the half-pay of officers of the navy and maim s, Mr. lIUME objected to the system of promotion. He thought that no favour whatever should be ex hibited, but that merit alone should be the passport to promotion. Admiral DUNDAS defended the course the Govern ment adopted, and maintained that they had adhered to former precedents. Captain PECIIELL complained that the masters on board of her Majesty's vessels were not properly con sidered. Although they ranked with a lieutenant, they were subordinate to each of t he lieutenants, and in case of the death or accidental removal of one of the lieu tenants, a midshipman wou ld be chosen to supply his place in the room of any of the masters. Mr. CRAVEN BERKELEY said, that be acknow ledged the utility and the claims of the masters, but he thought that the sphere which they then occupied, was the best calculated for the display of their powers. The highest ranks in the service ware still open to them. After a few words from Captain GORDON and Admiral DUNDAB, Sir CHARLES NAPIER said that he could not agree with his Gallant Friend the Member for Glou cester, for he thought that the masters were not in their proper sphere. They were liable to be under the command of a mere boy, whose knowledge in the service could not be compared for a moment with theirs. He could mention many instances, in which younger and less experienced individuals had been promoted over the heads of old officers of this description. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 486,447/. to defray the charges of military pensions, was then agreed to ; also, a vote of 153,4581. for civil pensions. The following votes were also agreed to: — A vote of 243,2021., to defray the expense of tran sports and the conveyance of troops and stores. A vote of 21,674/., to defray the expenses of main taining and conveying convicts. A vote of 564,3771., for the packet service and Post office expenses. The House then resumed, and Mr. GREENE reported progress. ARMY SERVICE BILL The report of the Army Service Bill was brought up and received, and ordered to be read a third time on Thursday next. HARBOURS, DOCKS, AND PIERS CLAUSES BILL. This Bill was read a third time, and passed. REGISTERING BIRTHS (SCOTLAND) BILL. Captain GORDON trusted the Lord Advocate would postpone the Registering Births, &c. (Scotland) Bill. The Bill was postponed. EXCHEQUER BILLS (18,310,7001.) BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow, (this day). PORTLAND HARBOUR OF REFUGE, &c., BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. PAYMENTS OF RATES AND TAXES BY ELECTORS. Sir DE LACY EVANS m oved for leave rote bri n g in a Bill for the regulation of the paymPnts of re.tes and taxe4 by Parliamentary eketor , The other orders of the day Nver , t hen disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quart,r vist One o'clock. How EVIL SHOULD BE TURNED INTO BLESSINGS. —We have already said that our towns ought to be looked upon as so many gigantic farmsteads ; that they should, in fact, bear the same relation to the surrounding country which the farm-yard does to the farm. Is it not strange that this obvious ana logy should have so long escaped notice ? and that when the proposition is announced, it should sound stran se in our ears? But so it does, and will continue to do, till we condescend to pay more attention than we have hitherto done to the merely physical part of man's com pound nature. This body—what is it but a furnace arts of flesh in which, as in oth er enimal bodies, the watery p of our food are evaporated, the charcoal burned away, and the ashes discharged ?—the products of combus tion going to reinforce the ocean of aerial manure, the ashes to be used or wasted as man in his wisdom or foil) shall decree. That which misses into the air cannot but be put to its proper use. Nature, who wastes nothing takes care of that; but man, foolish man! misunderstand ing the intent of providence is endowing those ashes with offensive properties, treats them as mere waste, and is but too happy if be can see them blackening the pure stream in their way to th e ocean. Or, content with merely wasting t h a t which ought to be m ost scru pulously saved, he adds to the sin of extravagance the greater crime of so disposing of these ashes, that they become the prolific source of disease. Thus, that which should be the material of food for the su pp ort of man's life, is converted into an act ive p oison for its destruction. —People's Journal. THE DUKE'S STATUE AS THE COMMITTEE DESIRED IT.—The consummation of the Committee's hopes (the removal of the scaffolding, and a waste of a little more money), seems likely, if anything in this world can do a to open their eyes, so long wilfully blinded. Every spar that is taken down makes the monstrous disproportion of statue to arch, the former being looked at as a part of the latter, more evident, and the height and impropriety of the arch as a pedestal merely, if it is to be so considered, more glaring. The proceedings here have been so discreditable to us as a nation, in an artistical point of view, that we blush when reflecting on them. How much longer the farce is to be played seems uncertain. It must be much more to the amuseme nt of neighbouri n g nations than ourselves. — The Builder. B ARRA , SOUTH MST, AND B E NBECULA.—We learn from a private source, that a stringent but neces sary measure is to be adopted with respect to the poor on the estates of C olonel Gordon, of Cluny, in the West Highlands. The Board of Supervision for the poor, in Edinburgh, are in course of appointing a commissioner to proceed to the islands of Barra, South Uist, and Ben becula, for the purpose of taking cognisance of the state of the inhabitants. His object will be to place upon the poor's roll such persons as are entitled to temporary or permanent relief, and along with the coremisioner will be sent a supply of meal and provisions for distribution among the paupers. The supplies judged necessary by the commissioner and the additional burden imposed by the operation of the poor-law will be laid upon the pro prietor. According to the statute the commissioner in such cases must be a member of the Scottish bar, and we have no doubt a gentleman will be selected who will arbitrate fairly between the owner and the people of those islands—between the duties and the rights of pro perty.—lnverness Courier. APRIL iv. M YSTERIOU S DEATH.—M A NCHESTER, —This morning, about six o'clock, a respectably dressed man was found in the drain or sewer at the side of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, near the Weast-lane station, quite dead. In his left hand was found a third class ticket, from which it appeared that the deceased was booked at Liverpool for Manchester, and must have left . by the third•class train, which leaves Liver p ool at halt- past six P.M. The only way in which this aeciden . Fan be accounted for is, that the deceased must have jumped out of the carriage before the train stopped at, the Wenst-lane station, or that ho was drunk and fell out. The latter, however, is improbable, as some of hi. fellow-passengers mu-t have noticed such an event, wh eii does not appear to have been the case. ACCIDENT AT TWICKENHAM.—On Saturday after noon Mr. Wakley, M.P., coron..r, held an inquest at the Prince Blucher Arms, Twickenham-common' on th e . body of Frederick Nicklewr i g h t , a g ed 50 years, bailiff to Sir William Clay, Bart. , MP. From the evidence it appeared that the deceased hail been in the service of Sir William Clay for the last twenty years. About four years ago bir William Clay purchased the property known as Fulwell Lodge, Twickenham, which consisted of the mills and a farm. The mills were subscqsently let, and Sir William Clay placed on the farm a thresh ing machine, which was worked by the water-wheel of the mills. On the morning of Thursday last the de ceased went to the premises to set the machine in mo tion, and was drawn therein, and before assistance could be rendered him he was almost literally torn into pieces. The only person present at the time was a boy of the name of Brenchley, who hastened for assistance, which was promptly obtained, but not in time to save de ceased's life. When extricated the body presented a most frightful appearance, the head being cowpletely severed from the body, the heart, liver, and lungs liter ally torn out, and the legs and thighs broken. The evi dence clearly showing that no person was to blame but the deceased himself, the jury returned a verdict of " Accidental death." INCREASE IN TUE PRICE OP PROYISIONS.—A con siderable advance has taken place within the last week in the retail prices of butcher's meat, bacon, pork, &c., although no visible increase can be perceived in the prices obtained in the wholesale markets. In Clare-market, wport- market, Oxford-street, and the vicinities, New cut, and Lambeth-walk, the prices usually asked and obtained are as follows:—Breasts and necks of mutton, 6d. to 60. per lb.; shoulders, 6id.; legs, 7d. to 70. per lb., being an advance of a penny, and in some instances 0. in the lb. Beef has advanced a penny in the lb., and a similar increase has taken place iu dairy-fed and Berwick pork; the rise in bacon is lid. per lb. American provisions have also advanced in price, the only article remaining stationary being cheese. The prices of vegetables, particularly potatoes, p a rsnips, carrots, and turnips, have so much inc reased, that it is an impossi bidty for the poorer classes to purchase; potatoes sell at 2 . id. to 3d. per lb.; those at 2 d are scarcel y edible, and, in consequence of the quantity obliged to be cut away, the price is increased to nearly Sd. per lb. ROYAL COLLEGE OP SURGEONS. —The following gentlemen having undergone the necessary examinations for the diplomas of this College, were admitted members at the last meeting of the Court of Examiners, viz.:— Messrs. Ernest Powell Wilkins, Newport , Isle of Wight ; Edward Lund, London ; Charles Jones Gihb, Newcastle-upon-Tyne ; Richard Jones, Brackley, Nor thamptonshire ; Claude Mackechnie, St. Kitts, Weil Indies ; Wm. Edward Hayman, Judd-street, Brunswick square; JGlhlLeominster, iea ß n c it h no Richard p d r r, os ßudd ser, , P ainter, Broadway W es tminster John ; Herefordshire.Cl onmel,• A andttheWalter,at ne B a tt ers he meetingl Mr. John Gallagher, a member of the Edinburgh same Col lege, passed his examination for naval surgeon. and prific ions `' 0 ' re; o tb o' 1190' i; t ho o d g bee ;ha t gr , he 1 , 3 bo . co . P ci 01 , coal l irbi! t I ‘ ;° e 11° SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENINCT , APRIL 13, 1847. NATIONAL EDUCATION. SPECIAL MEETI C NG OF THE COMMON COUNIL. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31. After the transaction of the ordinary business, Mr. FRANCIS BENNOCH rose and said, it was now his duty and his privilege to introduce to that Hor,our able Court a motion of surpassing interest—one which relate d to a matter in which was involved the haul loess of millions, and the success and the continued prosperit), he believed, of the empire. The motion had bean on the business paper for a considerable period; but he had e , n pre vented by various matters from bringine it earlier forward. Had this .not been the case, the flor p t'on of London might have, ere this, mecuseest toe — 4,ra great question of education, which was now agitating the tublic mind, instead cf discussing it at a period when some of the effects which might have been derived from such a discussion might have been lost. This was to be attributed to certain unhappy circumstances to which he could not further allude, because they were well known, and duly appreciated by the members of the Court. But it was a great gratification to know that, in discussing the question of education, they could approsch it deliberately and consider it calmly, without agitation of an obnoxious character, and without any of those feelings which would prevent them from doing full justice to the question. The motion which he had to pro pose was:—" That the state of education in Great Britain and Ireland is confessedly deficient and lament ably defective. That the existence of so much ignorance is a reproach to the nation, and greatly to be deplored; ti . esinuch, as poverty, destitution, misery, and crime are, not the consequence of it, seldom found dissociated ... As the means hitherto employed for the ' ,ncrease of knowledge among the people have proved insufficient for the necessities of the popu lation, thee assistance of the State becomes an imperative necessity.—(Cheers.) It is not only an act of justice and mercy, but also to the interest, safety, and security of society, that no subject within these realms should longer continue without the oppor• tunity of mental enlightenment, as a means of moral elevation and mental improvement. That an humble address, based upon the foregoing considerations, be presented to her Majesty the Queen, praying that she will be graciously pleased to exercise every legitimate influence vested in the Cremn to urge forward in Parliament such measures as shall pro vide for the general education of the people." The motion partook more of the nature of a petition than of an ordinary motion, and somewhat argued the question. He had so worded it in order that no one might attend without being perfectly confident of the whole of the arguments, which he should feel it his duty to make. With him it was no new question, as it was one which he had discussed and debated on all fitting opportunities during the last 12 or 15 years— nay, more, he was instrumental, and in fact responsible for a course of lectures which were delivered in London ten years, by a gentleman who was at that time one of the most popular writers on the subject. He was glad he was enabled to bring tour or five Peers, and twelve or fif teen Members of Parliament to listen to them ; but he had to regret that he was unable to interest the then Lord Lord Mayor on the subject of the promotion of educa tion. He wrote and waited upon him; but he would neither countenance by his presence, nor yatronise with his name, the series of lectures on teas impor tant subject; believing, as he said, that they were in tended " for the promulgation of some unimportant sub ject some new fangled doctrine likely to disturb the public peace and the safety of society."—(Name, name.) He would tell them. He alluded to Alder man Wilson. From that time he confessed that his heretofore profound reverence for the Lord Mayor and the Court of Aldermen began to diminish ; but his opinions had of late years been much modified, and there were many who had filled the high office of mayor for whom he eriterlained much respect. But to come to the sub jeer. of education. The necessity for education was, h. believed, conceded.—(ll.-ar.) There had been a demand for education almost since the first existence of society They recollected the saying of one whim they all reve rented—" Go and teach all nations." It was the firs , law of nature, for even the brutes must be tutored be fore they could perform their daily tasks. Thus savag man in his turn must yield before civilised man, a civilised man was only produced b. tion. Were man a mere animal, he would require , education, because his instinct would be sufficient to provide for him his daily food, as that would be all h. would require. But he was gifted with intellectue. qualities, the power and knowledge of judging and 0 discussing, added to which was his moral nature, whicl, controlled the other qu ilities, which, without it aid, might prove imprimis. Therefore it was evident that any education which di:l not embrace the de vetop meet of these three qualities, was inferior as a scheme o national education. The labourer in the fields re. quired probably the least education, but stilt he required education, because it was a knowledge. of the instruments he wielded which gave him power over the soil he digs ; it was education that taught the higher man gifted with a greater intellect the way to produce the most intricate machinery—to have education was all important—because it gave him his peculiarly distinguishing feature. Thus in every stage of life is demonstrated the necessity for education. By it the early lispings of childhood are invested with intelligence. Through boyhood that intelligence becomes expanded, until in manhood, the student can draw from the wells of the knowledge which exalteth, and in his retirement hold sweet communion with the rays of antiquity, whose spirits are enshrined iu books, and this surely is one of the highest prerogatives of man. The motion which he had the honour to propose divided itself into three parts—first the deficiency of education, next the defectiveness of education, and lastly the consequences of this deficiency and defectiveness, and the necessity for the adoption of some different system. He intended to compress his facts and arguments into the smallest compass consistent with the magnitude and importance of the subject. To prove the deficiency of education, he should refer to reports, and other documents of unques tionable data. In 1833 he found that the population of this country was 14,400,000 —that there were 3,600,000 of the population between the ages of five and fifteen — that there were 1,200,000 day-scholars between those ages, 2,400,000 attending no day-school—that 1,548,000 attended Sunday-schools, 548,000 only being in the habit of attending day-schools. The result came to this, that out of that number, 1,000,000 ;were Sunday- school scholars, 1,200,000 day, and that 1,400,000 were in total ignorance, without an atom of education. Thus above one-third went to day-schools; less than one-third to Sunday schools, and over one-third to no school at all. More than one-third of all the children of this vast empire, between the ages of five and fifteen, are without any means of education whatever !—(Hear, hear.) But the reports published in 1844, proved that the state of education, at that time, was worse rather than better. That was, the general character of education. The particular character was somewhat more remarkable. In his estimation, statistics proved everything ; but some were of opinion that anything might be proved by statistics ; but here they were undoubted as they were collected by parties employed by the Government, and by educational societies ; the results thus collected demonstrated, that instead of showing the darkest side of the picture, the actual state of things, previous to these inquiries, had been much underrated. In M an . chester, there were 50,000 children between five and fifteen, 10,000 of whom attended day schools, 23,006 Sy, same.aiidl7,l4ooivOeraptoteonldwedasnowoscrlieo,olasatfully Sonpallidarl, were without the means of education. Hull, York, arid Bristol prese n t ed the same results, and were all equally bad. The lion. and Rev. Baptist Noel, whom everybody respected, telt to much interest in the sub ject, that he made a private inspection of several schools, in order to ascertain whether the Government reports were, or were not, correct, and he found that no exaggeration had taken place, and that the state of education was as had been represented. Mr. Bennoch read a number of other extraete, showing the -time result. By a report made by Lord Kerry, it appeared that there were 2.664 parishes and hamlets . holly destitute of schools ; ' 1,042 poseessed Sunday, but no day, schools, making a total of 3,706 with ut a day-school of any description.--(Shame.) It was te palpable shame that such a state of things should be allowed to exist. With respect to many of the rural districts, from a return published by the Registrar-. t G h General, married er th al i , s could i a t r p s p sei e g a fnr r oemd their tthi timidity— ( Laughter)— as dm o i t n e) l s, y_ one Lotru h ge a lp l , f tz o s f t th eas mi ghtpe people!epalye in such a situation were. apt to get exceedingly nervous ; but why they should be timid and nervo us in the most honourable act of their whole lives, wholly at a loss to know.—(Laughter.) It als oewas ap peared that 8,000,000 of the population could not write , and that 5,000,000 could not read. Then, with respect to the schoolmaster. It had been shown and proved by competent authorities, that the care of the rising generation was, in the majority of cases, confided to the care of those who bad failed in ail other pursuits ; and that the schoolmaster was the lowest, instead of teing the highest and most respected occupation in the kingdom.—(llear.) The greatest number of schools in the large towns were these day and dame schools, but from certain reports which had been published, they would perceive how monstrously defective was the system of education pursued in them. He found extracts from these reports collected in an excellent article on education in the last number of the British Quarterly Review. With respect to those schools he found a report of the Hon. and Rev. B. Noel, stating that— "ln Liverpool, with few exceptions, the dame schools are dark and confined; many are damp and dirty; more than one-half of them are used as dwelling, dormitory, and school-room, accomodating, in many cases, families of seven or eight persons. Above forty of them are cellars. "In Manchester, the greater part of them are kept by females, but some by old men, whose only qualification for this employment seems their unfitness for any other. Many of these teachers are engaged at the same time in some other employment, such as shopkeeping, sewing, washing, &c., which renders any regular instruction among their scholars absolutely impossible. Indeed, neither parents nor teachers seemed to consider this as the principal object in sending the children to these schools, but generally say that they go there in order to be taken care of, and to be out of the way at home." And with respect to common schools:— " It was a room on the ground-floor, up a dark and narrow entry, and about twelve feet square. Here forty-three boys and girls were assembled, of all ages, from five to fifteen. Patches of paper were pasted over the broken panes of the one small window, before which also sat the master, inter cepting the few raw of light which would otherwise have crept into the gloom. Although it was in August, the win dow was closed, and a fire added to the animal heat, which radiated from every part of the crowded chamber. In front of the fire, and as near to it as a joint en the spit, a row of children sat, with their faces towards the master and their backs to the furnace. By this living screen, the master, though still perspiring copiously, was somewhat sheltered from the intolerable heat. As another measure of relief amidst the oppression of the steam ing atmosphere, he had also laid aside his coat." This was a perfect sample of them all. But let them look at the condition of the National and British Schools -. The great majority of the patrons and conductors of the from Na!ional and Lancastrian schools which I visited, only pro fess to tech the children reading, writing, and arithmetic. The hnowledge of the English language, natural history, geography, physiology, and the history of their country, are all excluded subjects. Upon none of those could I examine the etildren generally, because their teachers professed the tota Illignorance of the children respecting them. If occa • sionally I heard that Liverpool was an island, that Lanca shire was one of the great towns of England, and that Asia and America were chief countries of Europe, I was led to expect this if I heard such grammatical inaccuracies as those contained in the following answers to questions put by me : Them as is good goes to heaven'—`The men as was gazing up into heaven'—' He drownded the whole world ;' these were mistakes which the teacher did not undertake to correc en these schools the scholars were poor and they ound that they went to them ignorant and from the want of a proper system of training, that their evil dispositions were developed by association, and that they were frequently led into the commission of crime, as the little knowledge they were taught, was just sufficient by association to induce them to commit depredations. It would be almost superfluous in him in that Court to refer to the evils which arose from a want of education, but his Lordship and the gentlemen of the Court of Aldermen who had held the office of sheriff; had, in that capacity, and as magistrates, been in the habit of visiting the crimi nals of the metropolis, and had no doubt found that ignorance and wretchedness and crime went hand in land. The judges referred to it; and Mr. Sergeant Adams came forward with his monthly report lamenting the amount of juvenile crime, and his inability to remedy he evil. This belonged more properly to the question :f juvenile crime than to education ; but still it was necessary that he should refer to ignorance and crime, as they formed a p art ,f his resolution. In th e valuable report of the British Foreign School Society for 1845, he found that one-third of the criminals of Berkshire could not read, that Cam e, idge and Stafford (and some of the aldermen were connected -with Stafford), one-half could not read; in Denbigh two-thirds were in a similar condition, and that the half of those of Essex (one of the Council was connected with Essex) were totally ignorant. In Hereford, out of 385, cnly one could read wel l, and in Sussex (one of those delicious sequestered agricultural districts), out of 877, 141 did not know their Saviour's name, 498 knew it and no more, and then only in con nexion with an oath; 179 bad only a confused notion of his history, aid only 1 in 14, or 59, had 'he faintest glimmer of the Christian faith. They had tried punishments of various kinds, in order to leter persons from the commission of crime, but they had ignally failed, and he hoped that they would now take more religious means, by the aid of education, to improve the condition of those unhappy persons. As a proof of how much more expensive the punishment of crime was than its prevention, he might refer to the fact lately stated by the magistrates of Liverpool, that they selected at random t 4 criminals, whose ages varied from 9 to 14, whose ag gregate commitments amounted to 133 times, or 9f times oath, and who had cost the country 8891. ls.-8891. Is. for punishing 14 criminals, or between 701. and 801. each, whereas by a properly organised system of education, the common interest of the money would have educated 30 or 40 children.—(Loud cheers.) This money was .pent in punishing, not in reclaiming, because they had each been repeatedly punished. Then the question arose, would education deter from crime ?—(Hear, hear.) Was education the cause of crime, or was its want the cause? The argument that men of education had be come criminals was no reason against the education of the people. He granted that such things had happened, Sue still that did not prove that itwas not the duty of every man—the duty of the nation—to give every man the neans of advancing himself in the world. Because a ma was born poor was that any reason why he should not rise in the so,ial scale. that he should not have the means if elevating himself ? fie contended that the most im )ortant means to that end was education. But how was his to be done ? We see the necessity, but we are over *erne by the difficulties which surround it. Could they overcome it by voluntary c ,ntributions which some people tonsidered the great pat acea for the ignorance of the toe people? Two opinions prevailed —one that it was ~ ufficierit, and the other that it was not. But if Volun .tryism was sufficient, how was it that one-third of th , ~ i publion were in Cimmerian darkne,s. Certainly if it was sufficient they must have sadly neglected their duty. Voluntaryism was a beautiful system, but what did it to ? It certainly contributed largely in various ways; out the voluntaryism of the State was far more impor raiit; for aid by the State was but another form of contributing money from the same source. Voleroaryism did not punish criminals, it did not fight heir battles, it did not provide for the poor. When it lid all these things, then he should consider that volun taryism would be enabled to educate the people.—(Cheers.) ['here were probably many gentlemen in that Court, ho had not had any large sums of money expended ipon their education.—(Hear.) Yet there were many who was without education, so far as the school lia,ster was concerned, listening and taking a p in the discussion of this great question. Thus several who had been thus situated had become representatives of, the City of London ; but had theyre rosined totally ignorant, they would not have been called to fill so honourable a post. Was there a man there who could not read and write ?—(Yes.) Some gentle man said yes, but he never had the misfortune to meet with one who was so ignorant. Should any such be pr e sent now, their support I am sure to hav e ; and should there be those (as I know there a re ) who have onl y received the merest rudiments of education, yet by unremitting zeal and rectitude have become member& of this court—their support I confidently expect, because aerie can feel so keenly, or know so truly, ner describe so forcibly, the sleepless nights, the perplexities, the struggles of uneducated intellect striving under every diadvantage to assert its power, and the difficulty in seizing the opportunity calculated to lift him to a superior station in society, all of which a little more judicious training would have ren dered comparatively easy. He could not under stand any means that could be brought to promote edu cation efficiently without the assistance of the State. Could the State educate, was one question, and how edu cate was the next. He could prove that the State could educate. Even despotic nations had shown that they could educate their people ; but a free country possessed an additional advantage, as it could educate and consolidate its power. In Germany and Prussia education was compulsory. In America it was not so ; but it was made very attractive. In America it was stated as a general rule, that in the those States, in which education was promoted by the Govern ment, that the most was done by the people ; and that " wherever the Government extended education that the people were found anxious to avail themselves of it; where there now is little or no legislative effort the amount of instruction is as small as was compatible with any degree of diffusion of know ledge." That fact showed more forcibly that the aid of the Government was required than anything he could urge if he were to speak for a month. Those states which did not receive much aid were exceedingly ignorant. In New York education was progressing favourably, as one-fourth of the population was receiving instruction. The following was the state of education in the various st a t es: — New York 1 p upil to 3 - 9 inhabitants. Massachussets, M a ine, C o n- to 4 necticut - j • New England - - -1— to 5 Pennsylvania, New Jersey - 1 — to 8 Illinois - _ to 13 Kentucky - - _l—to 21 For a man to have a child growing up without going to school, was considered the greatest scandal that could attach to him. But if all he had stated was done in Am erica, wh y could it not be done in Engl a nd?—(near, hear.) It was said here that the assistance of the State would do away with the itelependence of the people. Was it mere iestructive to independence to look to the State for telacation, than to feel thet we depended upon private ~,ante or public charity for it ? Many of these who were educated in charitable institutions, found that a Bind of stigma attached to them which often lasted to he day of their deaths. He was reproached with it. rhe State, therefore, was the proper and only means, . 1 whose aid a national se stem of education .0111 d be crrried out, and the State was now ae:drous to do it.—(Hear.) He regretted that one of the greatest obstacles raised to the scheme was religion. Religious difficulties were the only obstacles now placed n the way of the Government.— (Hear.) The Episcopal Church would have no education. unless it was placed upon or supported by religion. The Dissenters would have no State support, and other sects oppesed it for "irnilar reasons ; so that between them all the nation would suffer, unless the Government had the determina tion to go fully and fairly into the question, in defiance of such opposition as that with which they were rue. naced. The flowing tide would be stayed, if not rolled backwards for fifty years. Could it be for the interest of religion that a scheme in which the happiness of the rising gene ration was involved should be destroyed ? It could not be. Perhaps the best system to adopt would be a system of perfectly secular education, making the parents responsible for th e reli g ious instruction of their children, not that lie was opposed to any system of religious edu cation, but he was a nxio us to obtain knowledge for the people almost o n an y term s. — (Cheers.) No compul sion by the Sta te could make a person chan ge hi s reli gion. A rem arkable instan ce of the tenacity with which persons a dhered to the religion of their forefathers w as to be found in the las t report on education in Ireland. Several children of Roman Catholic parents were educated in a Protestant school, and in the Pro testant religion; but when they left they went back again to the Roman Catholic faith. He thought he had maintained the principles which he enunciated at the commencement of his address, and that the scheme of the Government was likely to prove most advantageous —it was the best and most comprehensive that could have been adopted in his opinion under the eircurn stances—(Hear, hear)—and a considerable degree of excitement had been occasioned with respect to it. He thought there had been a considerable degree of crude, hasty, unreasonable calumnies, east upon it. If he bad any objection at all to the Government plan, it was this—that it did not go far enough. But he wished to have it tested as proposed, and no doubt the experi ence which would be obtained would enable them to materially improve it. Some said that it was unconsti tutional, but he was at a loss to know what could be un constitutional in giving the representatives of the people —their representatives—the control of education. Then it was said to be sectarian. How could it be sectarian, w hen it supported alike every religious belief, and every religious denomination ? If it applied only to the Established Church, it might be called sectarian, and it would deserve the same character if it applied to the dissenters alone; but as it applied to one sect as much as to another, he thought it was about the best scheme that could be adopted. " But it is inquisi torial," said a third party. Why ? Wherever public money was applied to a public purpose, there must be public inspection. Private charities privately ad ministered, were too frequently seats of cor- ru; Lion; and public Toney, if privately expended, might be expended improperly, and diverted to I corrupt purposes; but here Government inspection woald keep the fountain clear and prevent any mis appropriation for the future. But another party oh• jetted to it, on the ground of centralisation—centralisa tion the bane of Europe, the curse of France, and the misery of the civilised world. Centralisation wielded by a &spot was unquestionably bad, as he might attempt to curb the will and thoughts of his subject ; but centrali sation in the British Government was centralisation, in poiut of fact, in the people themselves, for in the case of these rchools, inspection would tend to keep ti.e admi nitration of the funds pure and just, and compel those intrusted with them. and to whom they were paid to do their duty. With centralisation, if abuse s crept into the administration of the funds, they would be immediately known at head quarters, and the person who had misconducted himself would be at once super seded. To his mind a centralisation of this kind pos sessed much beauty, and formed one of the most im portant principles in the Government plan. Another great advantage was the the establishment of Normal schools, because bY their aid they would be enabled to do away with that obnoxious class to which he lied referred, who, without requisite knowledge, pretend to teach the children of the poor ; and in their place they would have men with young blood in their veins, anxious for the work and determined to perform it thoroughly, and not half. They would get rid of the half stupid, lame, blind, and frequently immoral old men and women, who had set themselves up as teachers.—(Hear.) Besides, they would know, if they discharged their duties properly, that their old age would be spent in comfort. Much had been urged against the plan which the Government had proposed for the support of the schoolmasters when they relinquished that employment ; but it was most important that a teacher should know that he would not be allowed to die from starvation when his faculties failed him. Then again, he consi dered that instead of the whole scheme enabling the Government to tyrannise over the people, that it would have a directly contrary effect, and would place a great deal more power in the hands of the people.—(Cheers.) The highest class would at the proper time receive their due reward as teachers, whilst the second class pupils would become important public functionaries. Thus, in stead of Government situations being bestowed upon those who had no claim to the gratitude of their country, they would be given to those who had earned aright to hold them. It was, as he had said, a very important matter that the teachers of this country should take their proper position, as he considered the teacher was more entitled to respect than the warrior whose conquests over foreign nations brought great advantages to this country. The profession of the schoolmaster was higher than the minister of religion, because the success of the subse quent labour of the minister depended much upon the superstructure raised for him to work upon by the schoolmaster. In every point of view be saw great beauty in this scheMe of education proposed by the Government. Another important point was, than an educated people were more easily governed than an igno rant people. With education, one might appeal to a man's senses, to his intellect, and to his moral feelings ; but without education one could not appeal to him, save through the influence of mere ph) sical power. Corporal punishment would be the way they could teach him to do his duty, But by education one might appeal to his cultivated faculties, and through them, possibly, soften and re claim. They should then see none of those extraordi nary proceedings, such as took place some thirty years ago in the Midland Counties, where men associated and went about in mobs to break machinery—those mar vellous instruments by which they were now supported —as they thought it would interfere with their indivi dual labour—instead of now looking upon them as they did, as the most important advantages possessed by this ' country. Within his own experience he knew at the seine period, that serving men in England would not go into the service of a man who kept a thresh• ing machine, because they said it took away their labour, and the labour of the neighbourhood. At the same time they could not get a man in Scotland to go toil situation where there was not a thrashing machine—the one class of men, ho regretted to sad, sunk in ignorance, ' and the other, he was proud to say, having the means education which he was desirous that every man in Eng la•id should possess. It was this that gave Seotchmen the power of managing business, whilst the labouring men in England and Ireland were eomprlled to be slaves, not at ( 1: i t ; .. t c h . ey A bad i n l g es u s l a p r o p w r e o r o . f. b o u f t a b , i e s c a w u a s s e t t o h b e ey hadfou less last wt.eic's Examiner : " It is reported on good authority that a fishing-smack, having been successful in catching fish on the &till* coast, and sending it up the country, the people from the interior came down, seized the vessel, took the nets out of her, and made a bonfire of them, alleging that if she continued to cat eh fish at such a rate, there would be none for next year. Forethought is not a common Irish habit; they seldom ex tend their views far beyond the present; and the care for the next years' fish, and choice of present fa mine rather than trench on it, was the most unlucky and thoroughly Irish commencement of prudence that the mind of man could have conceived." It was probable that whilst he was addressing the coun cil, that there were hundreds of thousands rotting in their gaols who, had the Government in years past faithfully done its duty, would have been gaining an honest liveli hood, adding to their comforts and respectability, and increasing the wealth of the nation. It was indeed a lamentable thought, that much of this arose from the opposition of those who entertained strong religious feel ings on the matter. He could not conceive anything more extraordinary. They had all kinds of benevolent and religious institutions; they had ministers in all parts of the globe,—and each of those so cieties had his support according to his means — but to give a tract to a child, or a bible to a man, with. out affording them the means of understanding them was a gross insult ; it was as bad as binding a man's eyes and bidding him behold the glory and beauty of the universe. —(Hear.) He trusted that education would be taken as the basis of all endeavours to hu manise and Christianise the whole country, and that every Englishman would feel that it was a part of lie birthright to bo educated. It was a melancholy thing to think that religious differences should fetter thought; but he confidently trusted that tha t Court would unani mously declare its opinion that no c hild within these realms should bo without mental enlightenment as a means to moral and physical improvement. That was the first motion he had submitted to the Court, and' perhaps he might not have discharged his task so well as others more experienced would have done.—(Hear, hear.) He had only to add his gratitude for the patience and kindness with which they had listened to him. He concluded by proposing the first clause of his motion, and leaving the remainder of it to be dealt with as the council might think fit ; and resumed his seat amidst general cheering. Mr. T. WHITE seconded the motion. Ignorance was, in his belief, the most fertile source of crime. The awful history of prisons proved that indisputably. Of 252,000 persons who were committed to prison in the space of ten years, 229,000 were uninstructed, 1,085 had gone beyond the elementary degree, and 22,000 could merely read and write. It was said that such a fact showed the ignorance of the vicious. He contended - that it proved the viciousness of ignorance. The backward ness of England in educating the population, was a dis grace to the country, and he hailed the Government syetem as peculiarly calculated to remedy the alarming evils resulting from such neglect. Mr. PEWTRESS said, that if Mr. Bennoch happened to be longer acquainted with the court, ho would have found it to be unnecessary to give so lung a 1. cture upon education—he would have known that the numerous motions made in it for the promo tion of education, had been supported most vigo rously and that its members were upon all occasions anxious to have the deficiency supplied. He could not, howover, agree in the opinion that the deficiency was as great as had been represented. Ail experience had seoan that the grossest exaegerations had been made. Ia fact education existed nearly in proportion to the extent of the population.—(llear, hear.) if gentlemen would take the trouble to enquire they would find Oat numbers of scho were adapted to the accommodation of more children than attended them. It might he Mikan as a general rule that parents wished to have their children educated. What then was the reason that their schools were not crowded ? Why because of the roverty which exi,ted. The poor were unable to put clothes on their children suitable to attendance at school. The rate of wages was so low that even food could not be supplied. Thar such was the case in England ac well as in Ireland there could bo no doubt. and it was the duty of the Government to effect, if possible, an alteration in the labour market, as infinitely better calculated to benefit the population than their system of education. An improvement in that respect would comprehend the education of children. There was another important effect to be produced by leaving it to the people to educate themselves. He meant the preservation of their inde pendence.—(Hear, bear.) That independence which sprung from the voluntary principle ought to be cherished by every Government. In 'act, a little more justice and little less charity were requisite in the treat lilent of the poor. Independence, which was the founda tion of all our enjoyments, was perilled by the interfer. once of the Government. Deputy STEVENS was thankful for the educationa' measure of the Government, and considered that the voluntary principle would not sustain the least injury by its operation. He disapproved of the proposition to go up to the Queen. A privilege to be exercised upon rare occasions, and could not be necessary at a time when Government were evidently doing all they could for the benefit of the people ; but he should most will ingly advocate a petition to the Houses of Parliament in support of the measure which Government had brought forward. Mr. BOWER contended in favour of the Government measure, and said that so much poverty would not be in existence, if there were not an overflew of ignorance; and that the more a man was enlightened the more easily did he shake off all the prejudices by which mind was affected under despotic authority. Ile hoped the present Administration would be supported in their liberal appropriation of funds, which might under other guidance, be applied to the prosecution of war or other vanities. Mr. R. TAYLOR remembered when Lad J. Russell said in the Guildhall, that it was the intention of Go vernment to bring forward a system d education as soon as possible, immense cheering proceeded from the very persons who were now exerting themselves to overthrow the measure.—(Hear, hear.) He most warmly ap p ro ved of the whole system to be introduced by the Bill, by which the voluntary principle would be vigo rously supported, and a due inspection would be made into the manner in which the money was expended, by men of first-rate qualifications. He trusted that the Corporation of London, which was distinguished for its love of civil and religious liberty, and which never failed to give of its funds to aid the education of people of all religions, would not hesitate in supporting the Admiei stration in so benevolent an effort to s er ve th e h um bl er classes. An objection had been taken that the greatest The Court of Common Council met yesterday, and aft ,, r a lengthened discussion upon the Health of Towns Bill, Mr. BENNOCH then roso and explained that, by a mis take the Court, and not the " debate," was adjourned at the last meeting of the Council. Under these circum stances, he might go over the ground he had already traversed ; but he should not avail himself of that pri vilege, and should merely content himself by moving the resumption of the debate. It was necessary to make this explanation, in order that those who were not present at the last meeting might know exactly how the matter stood. He trusted, how ever, that no gentleman who had addressed the Court on the subject would do so on this occasion— (Hear, hear ; and oh, oh)—as the adjournment of the Court, and not the " debate," was simply an acci dental circumstance, as the person who proposed it was favourable to the motion. Mr. Wstrrz seconded the motion, which was put by the Recorder, and carried. Mr. De JERSEY rose to oppose the motion. He said during the time he had held a seat in that Court, he had opposed many of the sentiments enunciated by Mr. Wire; but he confessed he agreed with him in his views with respect to the scheme of education, which the Go vernment had proposed. It had been said with respect to many corporate bodies, that they interfered with mat ters with which they were not called upon to trouble them selves, whilst they neglected their own affairs—they mixed themselves up in political matters, and became as a matter of course political hinges. He, therefore, thought the Corporation had stepped out of its way in this discussion. He fully admitted the necessity of education; but scarcely two men could be found to agree as to the best mode of carrying it out. If the ;Hon. Gentleman who moved the adop tion of the resolution, wished to know what the Cor poration had done for education, he might find it in their deeds—as they had voted large sums, year after year, for the promotion of education, and not excluding IRoman Catholics and Dissenters from a p artici p ation in the funds. That man who wished to do away with the local management of schools was no friend to civil and religious liberty. The resolution, which was avowedly in favour of the Government plan, asked them to come to a decision " that education in Great Britain and Ire land was lamentably deficient ;" but there were " many good and true " men, who considered that the systems of education taught in this country were not deficient. —(Bear, hear.) lie wished the two countries had been sep irated in the resolution, because the peo; le of Leland, owing to their distressed condition, were not so susceptible of education as the people of this country, as they were " torpid and apathetic." Mr. Bennoch quoted France, America, Prussia, and Belgium as ceun tries in which Government schemes of education had been most suscsssinl. With respect to France, a gentle malt named Nortley stated that about 700.000 children were receiving primary instruction, which he found to he worthless and deficient in morality, and that the I schoolmasters were far from skink d in their profession. In America the education was a national thing—a de mocratic system of educa:ion—which etas similar to the system which this Government proposed to adopt, but nevertheless America upheld slavery—that he supposed was cue of the distinguishing feature s of the Government plan.—(oh loh !) America upheld a distinction be tween black and white, and yet they were told to look to America as an example of the success of a Government system of education. They should, how ever, look to the result. Then the r objected t o the voluntary cyst: m. Why, what h mo a ve d it done? Look at the tens of thousands—ho might say the mil lions who had been educated and were now being edu eae dby voluntary aid! All the great measures which had been adopted in this country were indebted to vo luntaristn. The Corn-laws which were once upheld by the House of Commons, were abrogated through the voluntaty exertions of individuals. Mr. BENNOCII denied that ho did; he was in favour of the voluntary system, conjoined with aid from the State. Mr. DE JERSEY could point to numberless instances in which voluntary exertions had accomplished great re.ults. Why, the Bible and Missionary Societies had done more for education at home and abroad than the Government could do, with all its machinery,in the next half century. From the official report of a gentleman with respect to the state of the prisoners confined in Parkhurst, he found this result stated with respect to 900 prisoners ; that one might be apt to imagine that out of that number there would not be more than 100 who had received any education, but what would they say if the very reverse was the case, and that not more than thirty had not received any education, and Su nday rest had—the great porportion of them . in schools., That all this crime was solely ring fall gn ao ranee, was in his (Mr. de Jersey's) opinionnaot ? Mr.y. Then, was educatioH to be compulsory orn DoTro mß eankneoicth' compulsory, resolutionw would d h b t o be monstrous. takenb o N t v h y w , a t y h s e . setshire labourer with Bs. or 9s. a week, who had half-a dozen children, would tell them that he could not afford to send them to school, as they must go to work as soon as pour rt weres mane nnodt they could pick up stones in the fields. Poverty was at the root of all this, and they must feed and clothe the poor, before they could think of educating them. Let them begin at the beginning, and not adopt laws which them m ucation .for could not by any possibility be carried out. It was th w e h r en ha h n e d, co i u f ld it not justice to offer a his But children,compulsory,to school. he could state as a fact, that whilst ' • an immense proportion sent their children to school, a great number did not, and would not if they could. One school in Manchester, for instance, w anted scholars, whilst in London he had endeavoured to get scholars for a school in his neigh bourhood, but he had not succeeded. Something in the shape of inducement was required ; but if the Dorset shire labourer could not send his children to school, the Government would not hesitate to tax him for the edu cation of others : that was not the justice which the people of this counts) , had a right to expect. There was not a body of Dissenters throughout the country who had not a school, and they bad done far more for educa. portion of the money, proposed to he advanced by the Covet ninent, would go to the Established Church. It was right that such should be the case. Zeal aid acti vity would et cure the largest share. The Gove rnmen t sere assailed on all sides by pe t itions got up again : a plan, in carrying out which they deserved the support of the whole of the community, especially of those who were bound, from all previous experience, to suppirt them, but who now opp-sed them. Mr. Taylor then described the narrow-minded views entertained by the Church of England in former years, and contrasted them with the liberality of opinion now generally ex prc sled by that chui eh, and abandoned by the old ad vocates of t.leration, and concluded amidst loud cheers. Mr. STACEY spoke merely in approbation of the scheme of Government, and was delighted to see Mr. Taylor at his old work of labouring for the amelioration of the civil and religious condition of mankind.—(Hear.) Mr. B. S. PHILLIPS, a gentleman of the Church per suasion, rejoiced in advocating the measure of Govern ment, and spoke of the unbounded liberality of those who were at the head of that religion in educating the poor. Mr. W. LAWRENCE said that if the Government bad consented to leave the whole in the hands of the dissenters, not one word would have been heard of this opposition. He then commented upon the good ten dency of the measure in every respect. Dr. LYNCH was agreeably surprised and delighted at seeing so fine a field day for the support of education, and so little chance for those who opposed it. He con sidered that great praise was due to her Majesty's Mi nisters for propounding so noble a plan for providing, amidst the unexampled difficulties which surrounded them, the means of a sound moral education for the children of all classes of the community, without respect to creed, sect, or party.—(Hear, hear.) They pursued the proper course to ensure the happiness and to elevate the condition of the labouring classes. The long and exaggerated sentences which they heard about interfer ence, tyranny, poison, were mere bugbears, mere poetic hyperboli, calculated only to frighten children.—(flear, and laughter.) The present means of teaching the children of the poor, and even of the middle classes, were most defective. Why should a broken down butcher, or baker, find a refuge in the character of schoolmas ter? Why should the dishonest insolvent be encouraged to turn teacher of children upon the failure of his other experiments, and cheat both parent and child with im punity ? That tremendous evil would be corrected by the inspection, without which it was absurd to attempt to carry out any proper system of education. There was no intention to churchify or to proselytise the ris ing generation. On the contrary, the only effect or de sire was to place them in the road to truth and virtue, and to make them useful members of society, whether Protestants or Roman Catholics.— (Hear.) In Prussia there were three millions of children annually taught by the State. America was still more liberal. In Prussia the commercial classes were taught English, French, German, mathematics, physics, history, and geography ; and the education of the poorer classes was proportion ably enlightened. The statistics of education submitted to the Court reproved their neglect. In despotic Austria only 34,5001. were expended in forty millions of popu lation. The Government had taken the first step in the right direction. They would impart to all the dements of education which had at the present time become a necessity, without cramming them with knowledge only calculated to make our poor discontented with their condition in life. Arkwright, Watt, Hunter, Faraday, Cuvier, Haydn, Herschel, and a thousand others who had risen from the lower ranks to eminence by perse verance, and who had left by their discoveries in science an imperishable name, and made mankind their debtors, were self-taught, or had only the rudiments of education. They were only taught to read and to write. Genius accomplished the rest.—(Hear, hear.) He gloried to see Mr. Richard Taylor, in his advanced years, witness the triumph of the principles which that enlightened veteran had from the earliest period of his life advo cated.—(Cheers.) Ile gloried, too, to see a Jew rise in the Court of Common Council, as a member of that body, and :in instance of the increasing liberality of the citizens of London, to deliver sentimehts shisb did honour to the head and to the heart of their new acquisition.—(Cheers.) Mr. WIRE said that all arguments used in favour of th, Gov, ronent tnessure were grossly fallacious..,nd all the statistical details were just as fallacious. He con demned the interference of the State as not only wholly unnecessary, but as calculated to strike a blow at the independence of the people about whose education the Government never threw away a thought until they . had educated thern,elves ar, ar.) It was the object of the Government not to make the peolle religious, but to keep them in subjection. Mr. Wire, in c omparing the population of other countries with those of England, insisted that this country sv:,s more intelligent than any idea other on the face of the earth. He depreca ted the of giving to Government functionaries such a super ' visit n as the inspectors were to have , and of their establishing an indefinite influence and patronage, and he contended that the whole plan was part and parcel of , the atrocious system of centralisation which was now unfortunately so prevalent. tion than the Chureh, who, finding their system failing now sought tho aid of the State ; tut Dr. Hook was of or union that the Church should educate the children of its members. He denied the correctness of the doctrine, that " if education was good for one, it was good for all." Why, where would they stop ?—(A voice, "Nowhere at all.") Would they carry the higher branches of educa tion to the plough tail ? because, if the principle were admitted, all must be placed on an equal footing with respect to education. They could not draw a line of de marcation.—(Cheers.) It was a most dangerous doctrire. when so many prejudices prevailed as there did upon the question of education, it would be almost impossible to s c u h p u p r o c r h t . comply Th e carry out one general scheme ; and if the Dissenters did not avail themselles of it, they would be taxed for its r m ed em ih b a er t s th o e f b t u h t e tre C sa h e u a r w ch h , lo a a n a d op n po ot r t ted he were n vt being hen it. removed rrhespe `o a n k e er by t then n e r e f but, err a d i n to histhroliptlonr: great mass of the people, would be benefited by it. The but schemehe was w would add d to ord an e o r t , h a e n r d ; to som h e e rem fa arks, b of nd a i s t l th a t r: s : rather personal nature, followed, between several of the members. Mr. LAWRENCE who had rather h astrly exclaimed "Question Question !" claim e d a r i ght to do so when he thought a speaker had said enough, and commenced trespassing on the time of the Council. In the House of Commons, the cry of " Question " frequently settled the question.—(Laughter.) Another GENTLEMAN observed that those in favour of the proposition must submit to such observations if they thought proper to introduce such glaring motions. After some little acrimony, Mr. DE JERSEY proceeded to say that despotis m was prevented by local influence, and that the Government acted improperly when it sought to moncpolise t h ose local interests. He was opposed to any system of education which would prevent men, as the Government scheme would, from being independent. Mr. ANDERTON said the question before them was whether they did or did not agree in the scheme of education proposed by the Government. Now he con fessed he was much surprised that any opposition had come from the gentleman who had just sat down, as at all seasons and on every opportunity he had strenuously advocated the education of the people. He had even solicited their aid for schools with which he was con nected ; but now they found him doing all he could to destroy the fabric be had assisted to raise. — (Hear, hear.) There never was a greater fallacy in the world than this uttered by him—that the pro% posed plan would destroy the principle of voluntary sub scriptions for the maintenance of schools, because the object of the Government was to aid and assist these schools, not solely to maintain them.—(Hear, hear.) Why, the Lord Mayor and the Aldermen, and, in fact, all of them, had been frequently called upon to aid by subscriptions schools whose funds were inadequate to maintain them; in fact it was but yesterday that the Lord Mayor attended a sermon in St. Sepulchre's, which was preaohed in aid of a school in that parish, which educated about 100 children, but which,- from removals and other causes, had got 120/. in debt. They all knew the great exertions Mr. Wire had made on behalf of education, and that he took great interest in a school in his neighbourhood, that he was the schoolmaster, and, in fact, a father to the children.—(Roars of laughter.) This school was supported on the voluntary principle ; but if the funds fell off, what objection could he have to apply to the Government and say " The school is in want of funds. I can educate more children. Will you give as funds to accomplish so desirable an object ?"--(Hear, hear.) To talk of education destroying the indepen dence of man was absurd. In his opinion education made men independent.—(Hear, hear.) Give the slave education and he becomes a free and independent man.— (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman was about to refer to the circular issued by the Government, when he was interrupted by Mr. WISE, who said that it was not an authorised document—it had not been set agreed to. It might be tniterially changed before it was adopted. It had even been charged five times since first issued. ...r. ANDERTON said Mr. Wire had opposed the Church, but now he found the Church becoming more liberal, he turned and said. " No; we will have nothing to do with you. This is a scheme supported by the Church, and what is supported by the Church cannot be good and therefore we will have nothing to do with it.' But if the Church had opposed the plan, no doubt the Dis,enters would have favoured it. Where was the obi ctionable power of the Government? The Com mit ee of the Schools are to have the power of dismiss ing the master." Surely, there could be no objection to that. They were also empowered to select the books, and the mode of discipline to be adopted. Whv, what more could be required?—(Hear, hear.) "He would have no authority to dictate what should be done in the management of the school, and would not be allowed to (afar his advice, except wished to do so," by the School Committee. What honest Dissenter could object to that? No honest Dissenter could.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) If they were sincere in their desire to see the people educated, they would not oppose one of the greatest blessings ever proposed by a Government.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. De Jersey said in his statement, that they had room for 400 children; but that they could not get the requisite number to attend. But this might arise from various circumstances. Perhaps the masters were unable to teach them; that was one great failing, as a great proportion of the masters in these schools wanted teaching as mach as the scholars. In IsB4 the report of the British and Foreign School Society stated that 150,000 children were then growing up in London without education ; and that within a radius of a quarter of a mile. In the neighbourhood of Barbican, there was a population of 18,000, out of whom the number of children attending day schools did not exceed 300.—(Hear.) This was in the city of London ; and the voluntary sytem had not been able to keep pus with the number of children who stood in need of educa tion. A meeting was held in the hall, under the auspices of Alderman Johnson, in order to raise 500 for a school ; after it an application was made to the Court to defray the expenses, or that they might not be taken out of the fund collected, end Mr. De Jersey was in favour of that motion.—He hoped that they would pass an unanimous vote in favour of the Government plan. The Govern ment would not be thought to do their duty if they flinched from carrying it out.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. CASE! said, when he was told that there were 150,000 children in London without education, he would not be a barrier altog e ther to the plan of the Govern ment. It was the duty of a paternal Government to educate her children, but he was opposed to any system of education which partook of a compulsory character; he did not, therefore, decidedly object to the scheme. There were, however, several details which might be materially improved.—(Hear, hear.) He was glad to find the Government earnest at last with respect to the education of the people.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion the voluntary system was inadequate to educate the children of this country as they ought to be educated.— (Hear, hear.) A great deal had been done in some dis tricts; but, speaking generally, he considered that the voluntary system had proved a failure, and that some aid should be received from the State. especially as the greater proportion of these schools (and he had considerable experience in them) were not sup ported as they ought to be, and therefore no taxation would be more palatable than one which was raised for educating the juvenile mind. Besides the Church of England and the Dissenters, there were a large number of children who belonged to neither the one or the other, who shoulo be induced, as much as possible, to avail the maelso. s of the education which would be afforded to them. AL. PRENDERGAST considered that the Government would be happy to avail themselves of any suggestions from any quarter, which could render the system they were about to carry out more • ffactual ; and with that view they had, no doubt, so extensively circulated the minute which had been agreed to by the Council. It certainly did not partake of a bigoted or sectarian character. For every sixpence to be given by the Government one abiding must be raised by voluntary subscriptions ; and no persons could receive it for echools with which they were connected unless they had given their shillings—(Hear)—and the Government, in weed of wishing to take the power trom the people in this matter, had put the whole power in their hands, thus showing thar they bad the highest confidence in the voluntary principle. Mr. De Jersey, and others who opposed the Government plan, had not had the hardi nood to propose a better plan, but they said they would one day be able to accomplish all that was required, although they admitted that as yet the voluntary prin ciple had failed. But hew much crime, which might be stayed, would occur in the - interim ? The members of the Established Church had come forward in the most handsome manner, and those who opposed the system which the Church supported, seemed to do so on this ground—that the Church could save more shillings than they could, and therefore they would have nothing to do with it.—(Hear.) Mr. Baines's argument that the Government Inspec tors would exercise a kind of despotism over the pupils and the teacher, and combine together to prevent the teacher from obtaining a situation elsewhere if he had the misfortune to lose his situation, was the most mon strous he ever heard. Why they had no power to dia -1 miss, and it was u nlikely that theywould concert toget h e r to deprive a m onitor of his 10 _ / a year, or fur t he purpose of crushing a teac h e r because he would not succumb to them.--al e ar, hear.) Mr. Baines' book was the worst be had ever re . ad —(Cheers.) He had been a teacher in a Sunday - school , and he found that what was taught one Sunday was forgotten by the children by the next—or that in fact they were mote i gn orant—(Cheers) — thus showing the importance of day schools in connexion with them. He was afraid that the young people confined in Newgate were but a sample of the great body of uneducated children in this country. He bad just returned from the circuit, and had found that those who were marked in the calendar as reading but imperfectly, were, for all purposes, as uninstructed as if they had received no education at all. The Go vernment wanted to .obtain good schoolmasters, and to put a atop to the nonsense taught in many of the schools. Is a proof of ignorance amongst persons moving in a higher sphere of society, he could state that out of eight coachmasters who came to him as a deputation on some business, two could not write. He was not one of those who considered that the Government had propounded this scheme in order to help their fortunes at the elec tion, which was so close at hand ; but that they had brought it forward for the sole purpose of benefiting the people.— (Hear.) Mr. AsnuasT considered that the Established Church had ever taken a most reprehensible part against the education of the people. Those in favour of civil and religious liberty would be as desirous that Atheists should enjoy their opiniens without molestation; but if the Ministers and the Legislature were of that way of thinking, and appointed Magistrates to dispense the laws of a similar opinion, would they think that snob • Governmeut was fit to be intrusted with the manage ment of the education of the whole people? Certaisll/ not. Yet the Government were to be intrusted wtith.ps_ m -nse patronage, which it was f viden roved ? would abuse. Wnat bad past experience P