The Sun. — London, England, 1847-02-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 'IOUS F, OF LORDS, Feb. 19. The LORD CHANCELLOR touk his scat on the Wool sack at Five o'clock. CROWN LANDS, ROSCOMMON. The Marquis of NV ESTNIENTH nieved for returns of the amount of the costs incurred in the manage ment of the Crown estates in the county of Roacommon. His object in moving for these returns was to show to their Lordships the state of land in Ireland. The estates in question comprised about 200 acres ; and he believed it' those returns were granted that he should be able to slow their Lordships that for the last fifteen years not one farthing of rent had been paid, and consider able costs incurred in the management of those estates. He asked for an improvement of the law for the sake of the people themselves, for he believed that it entailed the greatest evil upon them. It inigut do very well for pro perty situated in '.‘lilale!•:ex, but was by no means adapted for the state of things which existed in Ireland. The motir.n was agreed to. DISTILLING FROM SUGAR BILL Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Anti-Slavery Society against the use of sugar in distilleries, as they believed it would tend very much to encourage slavery by the increased stimulus it would give to the growth of sugar. Since last autumn, when the late change had been made in the differential duties on sugar, the rage for sugar planting in Brazil had pro ceeded to an incredible extent, and the consequence had been that the coffee plantations had been greatly neglected. POOR-LAWS. The Marquis of TIANSDO I IVNE presented a petition from the rate-payers of Killernay, complaining of the forty-seventh section of the Irish Poor-law Act. GRAND JURIES (CORK). The NOBLE MARQUIS also presented a petition from the Corporation of Cork, praying for the equalisation of the grand jury cess 'rate in that county. REGISTRATION IN SCOTLAND. The NOBLE MARQUIS (in the absence of the Duke of Sutherland) presented a petition from the Presbytery of Caithness, praying that births, deaths, and marriages, might b 3 registered in Scotland as in England. INDIAN RAILWAYS. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH wished to know whether the Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) was pre pared to lay on the table copies of the communications which had taken place between the Government of this country and the shareholders in certain Indian rail ways, with respect to the granting of loans for their construction. The Government had opposed, on finan cial grounds, tho granting of money for the construction of Irish railways ; he was, therefore, anxious to know whether the Government—or rather the Go vernment of . India—intended to act, on a si milar principle, with respect to Indian railways. The reason fin- his asking this question was because of a rumour which ho had heard some short time ago, and vdtich, if true, showed that the interests of India were much injured by the course which was at present per sued. It was well known that money could be raised at 31 per cent. to a considerable extent, for several suce:es ire years, without producing any material effect upon the money market in this country ; but in India, at the present moment, he regretted to say that money could only be raised at 5 per c'nt. Very recently the Government cl India found theen selves compelled to open a new loan at 5 per cent. A return of four per cent. was guaranteed to those F pecula ties who were interested in the loom. Their Lerdships would at once see that if the Indian Government wished to return to the four per cent. loans, it was impracticable, as the same amount of interest was now guaranteed on railways and upon the same security, while the many advantages of patronage, and, he regretted to s ty, of the jobbing system,:were, secured to the rail -Nay proprietor. If a 5 per c,nt. loan were now opened, if it °Leo reduced the premium npen the capital advanced upon fog met. 5 per cent. loans, fuel the per cent. went down to 10 or I dieeount, it would produce the run. serioue 1 uses to the Indian capitalists. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE sa!d, that if the Noble Lord hail given notice of his queetion, he would have been better informed on the salver. The state of the ease was this. Two montbs had elapsed since the Board of Control :Lade known to the Indian Railway Com pany upon what terms and conditions certain edvances could be made to pay for those undertakinge. No arise er had been received from those conipanii-s—a pretty strong proof that the terms wore not considered sufficiently advantageous, or they would at once have closed with th em . As soon as the correspondence was in a complete state, it should be laid on the table of the House. Atter a few words from Lord BROUGIUM, Thii Duke of RICHMOND said that with regard to these measures he was very sorry that such an example had been sot, as the people of Ireland would be furnished with an additional argument for a repeal of the union, a; offers of the assistance which had been refused to Ire land, hail been made to India. The Marquis of LAN6I)O NNE said, that when the correspondence appeared, the Irish people would not have any additional argument for a repeal the union. The Earl of RIPON said, that when he was in 1841, Pre sident of the Board of Control, the Government had declared itself favourable to the general principle of the establish ment of railways. A deputation had called upon him, and he informed them that he concurred in the general impression that prevailed of the utility of the railway system in India, and that he was sure the Government would give it their support. They (the deputation) then intimated that that support would involve pecuniary assistance, and without it they doubted whether they coup go on. In that ease, he thonght the Go vernment ought to issue a canamssion, and a gentleman wan accordingly appointed who reported upon the subject. He conceived they ought not to du more for Ireland than they had alre-Idy don'? for India. The conversation then dropped. BANK RETURNS. Lord ASHBURTON then moved for the returns of the account of capital or stock authorised to be raised by any rail way companies by any Acts passed during the two last sessions of Parliament, of the amount of money actually so raised, and of the a:nount remaining to be paid. Also, account of the MUM authorised to be borrowed by all railway companies under the powers given them by Acts of the two last sessions o f Parliament. Also, ac count of all stuns borrowed by all the several railway companies from the period of their commencement to the present time ; distinguishing each year, and stating the amount of such debt still outstanding ' • stating also the rate of interest at which such sums were borrowed, and the several periods when the money so borrowed is promised to be repaid. Also, an ac count of the amount which each of the several railway corn• ponies have stall power ,to borrow by their several Acts of Parliament. And also, account of the proposed amount of capital, and of the proposed power of borrowing, of all railways of which notice has been given to the Railway Com missioners, of Bills intended to be presented to Parliament daring the present session. Account of the value of all goll and silver coin and bullion in the Bank of England at the several periods when the returns are made public, from the Ist January, 1846, down to the latest period. A ;so a monthly return of Exchequer-bills, held by the Bank of England during the same period. Also return of the amount of discounted bills by the Bank of England during the same period. And also, return of all investments by the Bank of England in the bonds, debentures, or other engagements for burrowing money of any railway comrany ; stating the periods of such investments, the rate of interest at which they mere made, the periods of promised repayment, and the sums still remaining due to the bank. The Earl of CLARENDON said that with regard to the first and second returns moved for by the Noble Lord, there could be no objection to the granting of them, but as regarded the other threw he did not conceive it fair to the Bank of Eng land to give an opportunity to joint-stock companies and other banking rivals, to know the whole of their investments and private business—business the particulars of which was even denied by the directors to their own proprietors. The Noble Lord then read the 6th clause, to show what returns they were compelled to make weekly. Parliament had, therefore, limited the amount of information necessary to be published, and those returns were accordingly published by the Bank of England every week. If these returns were granted, a pre cedent might be established for calling upon the Bank of England to give information as to the amount of assistance furnished by the Bank to t tali merchant or other party. The Noble Lord had not brought ferward any grounds for his motion, and he thought that if the returns were granted, it would be con sidered as a slur upon the conduct of the directo• s and detri mental to the interests of the Bank. He hoped, therefore, that the Noble Lord woald not press his motion. Lord A SHBUR TON thought, t h at considering the present state of the circulation, it %cis necessary to have the returns he had moved for, in order to show to what extent the circulation had been affected by the n ew species of public securities by investments in railways. It was quite trite that Parliament hair stated what returns were to be published, but that was no reason why the directors of the Bank of England should refuse, out of cour tesy, to grant those returns, which were necessary to assist the Government in conducting the financial affairs of the country. Lord MONTE A GLE ob.ervod that be did not think there would be any objection on the Fart of the Bank to grant the returns. The returns, if they were furnished, would afford the House the means of judging of the vast extent to which railway speculations were being carried, and would, perhaps, lead them to be chary of passing such a large number of Bills, within a limited period, as they had been in the habit of doing. Yet he did not think the returns necessary as his Noble Friend seemed to him to possess all the knowledge which was necessary for the object which he had in view. Lord BROUGHAM said those who did not possess so much knowledge of the proceedings in the " Bank parlour," as his Noble Friend (Lord Monteagle) could not form an accurate opinion on the subject. The withdrawal of the motion would not preclude the Bank of England from volun tarily offering the desired information; but if they did not do so he should think they had some motive for withholding it. Lord ASHBURTON begged to be understood as casting no resection whatever upon the Bank, for he was convinced that they were a highly honourable body. He ea:led for this information with other views, and not with the view of in any "at impugning its credit. Altera few words from the Earl of RADNOR the motion was agreed to. LAST DAY FOR APPOINTING RAILWAY CONI MITTEESj Lord REDS SDALE moved that no Committee should to appointed on anya.ra.iglwa4lßt ill after the sth of July next. The motion w Lord STANLEY r;resenot.edott..o petitions. The first peti tion was from alarge number farmers and landed proprietors against the use of sugar m disteleries ; the second was from several distillers in Scotland, s hi ps would not sanction a Pr l yin g that their Lord than 4e. WI. per gallon or, ru m . l ower rate Gf d u t y SUGAR BREWERY AND DISTILLERY BILL Earl GI: EY presented a petiti on f rom the Standing. t h e West India planters, praying f or the remission'm mittee of f all duties ow sager used in distilleries a nd breweries. Lord WIN TE AGLE prweeted a similar petition from the agents of tile West India planters to the same effect.. Lord CL A R ENDON presented three petitions, one f rom ti e llauritius association ; one from the members of the Lond on West India and China Assoc iation ; and one from the merchants and traders of London, to the same effect. Lord MOUNTCASIIEL presented a petition from praying fromthe agrieulttuists of Itlacraom, l ac room, in the county of their Lordships to protect agriculturalinterestsa.gainst b the ef Bill operations of the Brewing and Distilling Sugar now fere the House. The Earl of CLARENDON said that it had been said that this measure ought to be a temporary one, and that it had been included in the measures of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government with other measures of a temporary nature. Now, although there existed a most distressing famine in Ireland, and he believed that this measure would, if passed, tend to set Ire* a great quantity of food for the people of Ireland, still he would say, that if that distress had not existed, the Government would have been bound to introduce this measure, in conse quence of the pledge given at the close of last session by her Majesty's Government. The colonists of the West Indies, therefore, claimed this Bill as a right. If the present measure were to he a temporary one, and only to last till next Septem ber, there would be no security whatever to the brewer, the distiller, or the colonist, and the greatest amount of evil would result from the speculation to which the measure would give rise. He would explain to the House the oneration of the proposed measure. The duty on malt was 21s. 6d. per quarter ; the duty upon 180 lbs. of sugar, which would be equivalent in yield to one quarter of malt, was 925. 6d. He was not, however, quite sure but that from the improved modes adopted by the brewers, he had reduced 1801bs. of sugar to an estimate much too low to be compared with a tosarter of malt. He believed that 200, or even 2101bs. of sugar was nearer the mark. If, therefore, 18'llbs. of sugar (taking the lowest estimate), paid 225. 6d. duty, and one quarter of malt paid 21s. 9.1., it was clear that the Government would be a loser t!) a trifling amount-9d. upon each quarter. He did not think, however, that sugar could ever be substituted for malt, except when malt was excessively high, or sugar exceedingly low. Malt was from 87s. to 89s. per quarter, and already the price of beer had been raised Id. per pot, at the rate of 25 per cent., which to a labouring man was no small consideration. Taking the price of malt at 845., deducting, however, from that the sum of 2s. 6d. as allowance for grains, and the price of 1801bs. of sugar, at 755. 61, it would cause a saving to the brewer of the sum of 6i. upon each quarter, which to the consumer would make a considerable difference. It was the wish of the West Indians, that molasses should be admitted equally with sugar for the purposes of brewing. The Govern ment, however, did not think it expedient to accede to those wishes. The duty on molasses was ss. 9d., and if 2521b5. of molasses equalled one quarter of malt, the duty would require to be raised from ss. 9d. to 9s. 4d., in order to place them upon the same footing. Molasses varied very much in the amount of saccharine matter, and different rates of duty would be required in order to make it equivalent to the rate of duty now imposed ; and great expense to the State and inconvenience to the brewer would be caused by the Excise officers, whose supervision would of course be required. Now, with respect to the use of sugar in distillation : the present amount of duty levied upon spirits equalled a sum of 5,200,0001. The great obstacle hitherto to the use of sugar in distilleries has been the amount of duty levied upon it. British spirit was produced from a mixture consisting of 2 parts malt, 1 part oats, and 18 parts of barley; and the spirit the result of that distillation was 7s. 10d. per gallon. It was now proposed that the duty upon the sugar should be the same as upon the spirits distilled from grain. In order to carry this into effect, it was proposed that the dis tiller should take the sugar out of bond, paying the duty upon it, and when he paid his spirit duty an allowance should be made to him equal to the difference of the sums he had paid upon the sugar and the sum he would have had to pay upon the malt. Now the quantity of spirit produced from sugar had been proved by experiments made in the years 1799, 1812, and 1831, by the excise officers themselves, and also by a most eminent chemist, that the yield of 1121bs. of sugar was equal to 11 gallons of spirits at proof. Upon this 111,, gallons of spirits produced from 1121bs. of sugar a drawback of 121. 10d. would be allowed, the duty upon that quantity of sugar would be about 14s. in ordinary times, when the price of barley was 305., he did not think, therefore, that agriculturists would have much cause for apprehending a diminished consumption of barley. Believing that it was most expedient to pass the mea sure wi'hout delay, he hoped the House would go at once iota Commi , tee on the Bill. _ Lord STANLEY hoped before he proceeded to comment on the statement of the Noble Earl that he should not be consi dered disrespectful if he drew the attention of their Lordships to a portion of the speech delivered by the Queen at the com mencement of the session. Her Majesty in her epeech stated " that it would be the duty of Parliament to consider what further measures will be required to alleviate the distress," and recommending Parliament " to take into its serious consider ation whether increasing for a limited period facilities for im porting the corn of foreign countries, and the admission of sugar into breweries and distilleries, might not be beneficial." It will not be denied, that when Parliament met, the inference to be drawn from that recommendation was, that her Majesty's Government would advise Parliament, with a view to the mitigation of the existing distress, to adopt mea sures to promote a freer adrni'sion of corn tree of duty, and the freer adnii,son of sugar into breweries and distilleries ; and he could not but repeat the regret which he had al ready expressed, that this Bill, unlike some of the others, proposed for the purpose of alleviating that distress, should par take of a permanent iastead of a temporary nature.—( Cheers.) He was sure every one in that House would do him the justice to say, that the temporary measures propounded by the Go vernment had not met, in that or the other House of Parlia inent,with any factious opposition, or that their progress had heen unduly retarded.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the Go vernment itself would admit V•at no disposition had beeu shown to interrupt for a single moment the passing of 'nee 'tires which were proposed for the purpose of remedying the distress that prevailed.—(Hear, hear.) The utmost he contended was this—that if his Noble Friend had intro duced this as a temporary measure there would have been no occasion for discussion—no occasion for a Select Committee to inquire into the merits of the provision. If they had stated that it was a temporary measure brought forward for the sole purpose of alleviating that distress, he was satisfied that with respect to this and the other measures no opposition would have been offered.—( Hear, hear); but when he found that it did not partake of a temporary character—that it was not brought forward as a remedy for that distress— or, rather brought forward under cover of that dis tress, for the purpose of altering a great portion of our commercial policy, he did not think he went too far in saying that the slight examination to which the Bill, if it had been temporary, would have been subjected could be fol lowed, and that they should not do well to pass such a measure without they had the fulleit information as to the effect which it would have upon the sugar producers of other countries, and upon the barley growers of this. Another course was adopted in 1795 and 1803, and upon many subsequent occasions, when it was found that a sufficient quantity of grain could not be obtained for the purposes of brewing and distilling, as the measures brought forward at those periods for allowing the use of sugar were tem porary. If the Government had come forward and said, as other Governments bad said in proposing similar measures, that the stock of grain was small, and that it was desirable to eeono mise the use of grain in ,breweries till the next harvest ; he should not have opposed a measure which proposed to admit sugar in breweries and distilleries in lieu of grain. No diffi culty would have been experienced in obtaining the sanction of Parliament to such a measure. His Noble Friend had telked about a pledge which was given to the West Indian interests lest year; but he (Lord Stanley) knew of ne pledge, nor of anything the Government had for making a pledge, that in this session measures would be proposed for facilitating the admission of their sugar into this country for brewing and distilling. A pledge given at the end of last session that those interests should receive the early attention of Parliament this session was not tantamount to a pledge to bring forward such a measure in this. But what he (Lord Stanley) said was—do not let them take the necessity of this measure from the Government ; but let them see whether they had justice and policy on their side, and sshether what was declared by them to be a great boon would not be found to be absolutely nugatorj and ineffectual, but rather a boon to the foreign producer of slave grown sugar.—(Hear, hear.) The West Indian interests would gain nothing, as but a small portion of their sugar would be imported, and the gradually diminishing rate of duty upon all sugars would more and more bring producers of slave-grown sugar into competition with West Indian sugar, and with the producers of barley in this country. The Noble Earl, in speaking of Canadian corn, alluded to a speech deli vered by him (Lord Stanley), in which he expressed an opinion favourable to putting the producers of that corn on an equal footing with the producers of cern at home. He had no doubt that he stated, on behalf of the Government, that a pledge ha:l been given that the subject should receive conside ration in the interim, an that a motion, which was then be fore the House, was withdrawn on that understanding, but when and where the pledge he had already referred to was given lie wee at a loss to know. Lord GREY said it was given in the House of Commons during the progress of the Sugar Duties Bill. Load STANLEY proceeded to comment upon the state ment made by the Noble Earl that " restrictions upon trade could not be permanently maintained, and that they could not permanently place duties on their own colonies." Now he (Lord Stanley) thought the Government were, in speaking thus, following a course, the progress of which they should watch with jealousy. First of all, measures had been passed for abolishing tie protection which the British agriculturists had for years enjoyed, using as an argument in favot.r of it that a measure to cheapen the price of sugar should follow it ; and now the West Indian interests claimed a similar advantage. /le watched the measure with much jealousy owing to what had taken place during the last few weeks. At the co.nmence ment of the session they were told that a temporary suspension of the navigation laws was necessary. There was not a dis sentient voice to its passing as a temporary measure ; but what followed? A motion was made in the other House of Parliament on the ground that, as all other restrictions had been removed, that the ship owners had no right to maintain a monopoly; and that the colonies had a right to receive their produce in the ships of any nation ; but if the argument was received, and the propo sition were adopted, that protection which had made their navy what it was, would be swept away as an useless relic of former times. But what course did her Majesty', Government pursue? They gave the proposition their cordial support, and conserved to the appointment of a Committee. Sometimes when a question was brought forward for examination on account of the facts and figures involved the Govern ment thought it convenient to refuse an inquiry. Although the Noble Lo r d s t a t e d t h at restr i ctions ought to be removed, and that they could not shut out the produce of their colonies by high duties, yet in the third clause of the Bill it appeared, that if any brewer should make use of any molasses, sugar, syrup, honey, except on what the duty had been ea, id or having them in his house, should b e li a bl e t o a fi ne o f '2001.—( Hear, hear.) He did not say that that was an im proper restriction for the purposes of revenue, yet this was consonant with their free trade notions.—( Hear.) If the principles of free trade were to be held sacred, he saw no reason wby,at least, they should not be extended to home pro duce.—( Hear.) If the figures of the Noble Earl were cor rect, the measure could hardly alleviate the present distress, at the present price of malt and barley. What he wished to urge upon their Lordships was, that before they adopted this principle that they should be satisfied by inquiries that those calculations were correct. He almost despaired to make the calculations intelligible, on which the expediency of the measure was based. He said it had been assumed that 112 lbs. of sugar were equivalent to eleven gallons and a-half of spirits, but then, he went on to say, to find an equivalent in barley and in malt you must examine what quantity of spirits they would produce, and unon the fact of those quantities the correctness of his calculations depended. The Noble Earl said he was undecided whether a quarter of malt was equal to 160 lbs. or 200 lbs. of sager, and yet on that difference, amount ing somewhere to about two gallons, one-tenth, the Noble Earl, on these figures, was prepared to bring these two commodities into close competition. He said, however, he would argue on the assumption that 1801bs. would produce that quantity. If he would refer to the evidence adduced before a Committee in 1831, he would find roost con tradictory statements. One gentleman said that a quarter of malt ought to produce 18i; another, that 18 gallons ought to be produced from a quarter of the very best malt; and that he had milted largely, and that the highest amount obtained was 18gel lons from a quarter of malt, and that the lowest was 14, but that the average was 16 gallons. The difference, therefore between 16 and 20 gallons was just the value of one•fifth of the article. Another stated that eighteen gallons ought to be produced from very superior barley malt. Mr. Ure, who was examined be fore the Committee, stated that the produce from the same quarialtity was not ei g hte e n, nor sixteen, b u t fifteen gallons. if Were so, instead of making the comparison of the E N e oble . Lord, they would have to compare with 160 lbs. ecoeßmepetit.iOnoulhdbetawd therefore, be a difference of 401b5., those be differ which een to decided ent ar tl t i i e eles. nat ‘ u v r i e 2ere of sta t t le_ carefully into the ' tnents were so varied, it as b incumbetit upon them to inquire as the operation of such statistics,aanto measureefore coming to a determination, could not fail, ultimately, a4produce, by the intro ductionHe found, when to injure the agricultural r relied for the of foreign sugar at a sma e li ii i avann re at e ; the experiment was tried on whichthe Government success of this measure, the price of ' Supposing on the calculation of the Nol sugar a w ri a , s 4 t t t a quarter of malt was equal to 200 pounds of sugar was enrree, the calculations of the Excise Commis sioners at 50s. 4d. was equivalent to the price of malt at 90s. per quarter, but until malt was at 40s , sugar could - not be brought into competition with it. If that was so, it disposed of the measure as a remedy for the present distress, because at the present prices sugar could not be brought into competition with malt and barley at the present time. The Noble Earl had adopted, in point of fact, the principle of the sliding scale. He (Lord Stanley) was surprised to hear it. He said that he would admit sugar practically, but that he would admit it just in proportion to the rising or the falling of the price of corn, and then passing over the operation of the sliding scale, in other respects, he came forward and told them that they must adopt the measure, for the purpose of avoiding the uncertainty in the prices of colonial produce. That un certainty being, according to the Noble Earl, dependent on the fluctuating prices, in production of the article itself. He would not then enter into that calculation, because it was not a matter of discussion for that House ; it was a matter of dis cussion for a Committee, where it could be examined and tested and sifted, and if her Majesty's Ministers were correct in their statement, he was sure that there would be no indis position on the part of those who advocated the principle of protection for the country, and adopted the measure without looking whether the result upon the manufacturing interest, or the benefit of the colonies were likely to be derived from it was better calculated. He wished to call the attention of the House to the manner in which the Noble Earl thought the colonies likely to be benefited be this measure. If the colonies were to be benefited by this measure, the greatest benefit to them must be the greatest rise in the price of sugar; but if a rise took place in the price of sugar—unless a large and material rise—took place in the duty on other sugars, it was impossible that the colonial produce could come into con sumption at all. The Noble Earl said that a very large in crease in the consumption of this country must benefit the West Indies very much. But if any increase in the consump tion of sugar in this country would benefit the West Indian in terest, while the duties were low, and the duties on other pro duce remaining fixed, what hope was there of the slave-grown produce being diminished? On the contrary, he believed, that any increase in the consumption of sugar in this country, would increase the consumption of slave-grown sugar also ; and if the price of the sugar rose, while the duty of the slave-grown sugar still remained fixed, the colonial produce could not come into competition with it. In the course of the year 1844, the con sumption of sugar in this country was 206,000 tons. In 1845, the consumption was 240,000 tons of Briti h sugar, and 3,867 tons of foreign ; making altogether 244,000 tons, as the consumption of the year 1845. Supposing that the consumption of the last month of tt.e year 1846 was a fair average for the remainder of the year, the total consumption of sugar would have risen in 1846 from 244,000 tons to 266,000 tons. Was that for the advantage of the colonial grower? The result was, that, of that amount, 244,000 tons in the first year-240,000 tons British and 3,867 tons foreign ; and in the second year, 266,000 tons, the produce of British possessions, that the foreign slave grown sugar increased from 3,867 tons to 28,196 tons.—( Hear, hear,) Unless he was wrongly informed, that increase was going on at the pre sent moment—for, during the first, six weeks of this year— where there were 27,000 tons of sugar introduced against 13,000 tons of the same period last year—there had been an increase of 1,500 tons of British sugar as compared with last year, whilst there has been an increase of 9,772 tons of foreign slave-grown sugar. He stated as this, the result of one of their late measures. That increase in the consumption of slave grown sugar being the result of the opening of the ports to sugar which had already taken place; but the stimu:us they had given to the slave trade had not had time to work. It was the surplus of former production which had now come in, and it came in under a duty of 21s. against a duty of 14s. Let them take the state of things three years hence—the year 1850. The increased market for foreign slave-grown sugar would then be in operation. They would have assisted cultivation, extended the importation of slaves, and increased the produc tion—and that increased production would come in com petition with that of colonial growth. In 1850 they would have an additional seven shillings per quarter in favour of the foreign slave-grown sugar, and could it be doubted that it would have the effect of increasing the consumption of slave grown sugar in this country? if it had any effect at all it would be to increase the consumption of slave-grown suear, and the benefit would not go to the colonies but to the pro ducers in the Havannah and the Brazils. The Noble Earl had referred to the case of the distilleries, and had told his Noble Friend that when malt was at 60s. per quarter, it would require sugar to be at 365. in order to render it possible to make it come in competition. In the first place, that de pended altogether upon the question not only of the quality of the spirit which was to be forced from the sugar—a question which was altogether omitted from the consideration of her Majesty's Government -- but also on the amount to be extracted from one quarter of the malt. When the Noble Earl said that 365. must be the price at which sugar must be in the market to be introduced into this country, and at that price it further appeared that out of the 361. a drawback of 124. 10d. was to be received by the importer on the con version of the sugar into spirit, it was to be received back in the shape of a dsawback—the most objection able of all modes of receiving it—which covered nearly the whole amount of duty. It was a subject which did deserve the consideration of a Committee, and it was most desirable that the House should be satisfied of the prospect of a large importation of sugar. The Noble Earl had quite forgotten until then, to inquire whether the duty on sugar was as low as it was at the present time, and now it was about to be still lower than ever it had been. When the Noble Earl said that sugar was never as low as 355., he (Lord Stanley) begged to remind him that in 1830, Jamaica sugar was brought into this market and sold for 435., paying a duty of 245., and a very short time ago. Havannah sugar which the Commissioners of Excise declared to be 3 per cent. better than the ordinary run of foreign sugar, was brought into this country at 21s. minus the duty, so that a drawback of 12s. 10d. made it consumable value about 225. 2d., so that even if the price of Jamaica sugar, which was 19s. minus the duty, were raised 2s. higher than it was in 1835, the price of sugar would he 22s 10., instead of 365., as *timed by the Noble Earl. He was not pro posing to their Lordships to reject tkis RM. If it were a tem porary measure, and he could see in it a prospect of relief, be would nay, " Adopt it at once, and make no inquiry," but if they were asked and invited to take this measure avowedly in the course of free trade, and as one cf the measures in the course of free trade policy to which they must come, and through which they must adopt measures which would lead still farther,. because it was impossible to continue any restric tion upon trade—if they were invited to take this course, which would have a permanent effect upon their commercial policy, he would say—do not take this step blindfold ; do not take it upon the statement of the President of the Board of Trade. All he asked was, that the House should examine into it, by the evidence of competent witnesses, It ho would to the best of their judgment show—not for present purposes, but ultimately and permanently—the effect of the measure upon the interest of the sugar cultivation in the West Indian colonies, and upon the slave grown and produce of Cuba. He asked that they should adopt measures which would satisfy their own minds as to the effects which would be produced by this Bill, and then vote for it—if they ultimately decided upon voting for it as a permanent measure—with their eyes open. That was all he proposed, all he asked from their Lordships, that they should legislate on this important question with satisfaction to the public and with satisfaction to themselves; that they should examine not only the papers produced by the officers of the excise, however credible and worthy they might be, but that they should inquire from other sources to satisfy themselvesthat they were not doing mischief where it was their earnest desire to do good, and that they were not injuring the cultivation of the colonies under the plea of relieving a temporary distress, which the measure, as lie was convinced, would net do. lie l i asked that they should not do mischief upon the plea of grant ing a boon to the colonies, which the Bill would not do, and it was upon these grounds, and not professing any opposition or hostility to the measure, but merely with a desire to be satisfied, that he invited their Lordships to refer this Bill, not to a Committee of the whole Haus?, but to a Select Committee, where the facts might be investigated carefully, stated with a tolerab:e certainty, and where a deliberate Judgment could be come to as to the probable effect of the measure.—( The No ble Lord sat down amidst loud cheers, but rose again immedi ately, and moved that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee. ) Earl GREY said that he could not help thinkirg, from the speech of his Noble Friend who had just sat down, that he (Lord Stanley) had a very had cause indeed; because he knew so well his Noble Friend's ingenuity, that whenever he saw him during the greater part of his speech altogether leaving the great question before the House, and entertainieg their Lordships with very ingenious and acute arguments upon points which had nothing to do with the real merits of the mea sure, he felt very certain indeed that his Noble Friend had a consciousness in his mind that the cause which he was defending was a bad and a rot ten one. Their Lordships would recollect the course of his Noble Friend's speech, and they would per ceive how completely, in the greater part of it, he had avoided the real merits of this case. He had entered upon an argument at some length, and read a passage from her Majesty's speech at the opening of the session, for the purpose of proving that in that speech this measure was introduced to Parliament as a measure intended to relieve a temporary distress, and, there fore, not to be a permanent one. On that point he had only to say, that whatever might be the construction which the words were capable of bearing, the intention which the passage of the speech conveyed was well known ; because some explanat'ori on the point was sought by his Noble Friend .on the first night of the session, and it would be in the recollection of their Lord ships who were present at the time, that it was stated distinctly that this measure, with respect to the introduction of sugar in breweries and distilleries was intended to be a permanent one. His Noble Friend had commented at some length on this very subject, and had objected to that course. He, therefore, ad mitted his Noble Friend's view of the Royal speech so far, and what was the result ? merely that her Majesty's Ministers in the wording of the Queen's speech, had not shown them selves very skilful im composition - (Loud laughter.) That was the whole result of the long and elaborate argument of his Noble Friend. His Noble Friend had also endeavoured to alarm the House, with regard to the measure itself, and had objected to the dangerous policy to be pursued in the present instance, and referred to the pledge given by the Government upon this Bill in the other House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the other House, had stated that it was im possible, at the then late period of the session, to enter fully upon the consideration of this complicated question, and pro mised to place sugar upon an equality with corn in distilleries, so as to benefit the British colonies. The pledge given by the. Government had not bound the House, but it had bound the Government. When on the other ride of the House, they had given it out as their conviction that duties should o n l y be im posed as with a view to increasing the reveaue, and not to turn industry and capital from their natural sources. But his Noble Friend said that the appointment of this Ce m . rnittee was getting themselves into the position of the fine edge of the wedge. Did that not mean that they had not understood the subject. But, further, he thought that he did hear semething of the hostile intentions of the Committee. H e the more b e li e v e d th a t he was right in this opinion, because he had hear his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack say, " Oh that gives us a clue to what will be, and, therefore, I pre sume this Select Committee is a convenient instrument for rejecting the measure to which we are asking you to asse n t." But what w ere th e groun ds on which the Committee was asked ? What were the legitimate grounds of this inquiry? What were the principle which they believed ? They considered that the sugar of their colonies ought to come into consumption subject to no impositions save what the safe!) , of the country required. If required for distillation or brewing, they ought so to arrange it that no more bias would be left on the minds of distillers or brewers than in the case of there being no tax levied at all. If their object was to raise a revenue, then they ' should so impose a tax that they would not in any degree give a greater bias than if no tax had been levied at all. They did not require a Committee to ascertain if this was a good principle or a bad one. He maintained that the i rinciple was carried out. His Noble Friend made as curious a confusion between malt and raw grain as he had between sugar and molasses, and he had got far beyond his (Lord Grey's) depth, although he had tried to follow him. The reason he believed he could not follow him was because that there was some confusion in his own mind, but if he followed his Noble Friend's argument it would resolve itself into simply this— would it answer the purpose of the brewer or distiller to use sugar or not ? That was a question with which they had nothing to do. That was a question for the manufacturer to determine. All they had to do was to take care that the , revenue was so conducted that the manufacturer should not be injured, at the same time that the public would be bene fited. This measure would be of the greatest importance as giving a security in a spare season, by pre venting the use of malt in distilling, while it prevented sugar falling to ruinously low prices. The tendency ? f the mea sure wou ld b e to g i ve an equa li sa ti on o f pr i ces . they knew that the smallest quantity of sugar that was capable of yieldi ng an equa l amount of sp i r i t with a quarter of I , malt, was 180 lb s . Th e malt paid a duty of lf. Is. Bd., while THE SUN. - _ LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 20, 1817. the sugar paid U. 2s. 61, so that this measure on the most I unfavourable calculation they could take, would not give the smallest advantage or abatement of the tax on sugar, and if they took sugar on its real calculation of 230 lbs. to the quar ter of malt, it would, instead of I/. Is. Bd., pay a tax of 11. 55., therefore, in this respect, there could be no partial duty. The question was one of such perfect equality that it would be in vain to refer it to a Committee. With respect to spirits it was equally clear, and he did not think that any man had ever maintained that the drawback on sugar was more than was necessary, in order to put distillers in sugar, and distillers in malt, on an equal footing ; he said there was no doubt that they had, as nearly as possible, equalised the burdens on these classes of manufacturers. Now, he never recollected a case in which a matter of this kind was referred to a Select Committee. The practice was, that the Govern ment for the time, acting fairly towards all parties, should make some proposal to Parliament ; if they were wrong, their views were contested, and the House divided ; but if they ap pealed from their views, they should appeal to one of the Houses of Parliament, and not to a Select Committee. A Chancellor of the Exchequer, he forgot which it was, but in a proposal of this kind, one of the Chancellor's of the Ex chequer said, that he would never consent t o h ave his office put in commission. If his Noble Friend thought that their calculations were wrong he might have prop: sed an amendment, and the question would have been fairly discussed, and they on that side of the House would have been prepared to defend their own. He would remind their Lordships that his Noble Friend wished them to go into a sort of fishing Committe e , i n or d er t o di scover , if possible,lsome error which was not before them. H e on ly sa id, you are wrong," but .he did not tell them where they were not right. He (Earl Grey) confidently appealed to their Lord ships not to assent to a course which was unusual, not to say inconvenient. There was one point in his Noble Friend's ar gument which excited in his mind so much surprise that he must advert to it. He (Lord Stanley) said " this he supposed was a measnre fur the advantage o f t h e co l on i es, b ut the colonies knew nothing about it." He (L or d G rey) presente d petitions from the West !mita planters, and his Noble Friend beside him presented similar petitions from the China Associa tion in favour of this measure, yet his N o bl e F r i en d sa id t h ey knew nothing about it. He said that the measure was for the benefit of the slave sugar grower. Th e i r L or d s hi ps m i g h t remember that by the provisions of the Bill passed last session, the duty upon slave grown sugar would be reduced every year till, at the end of five years, the duty upon slave grown and colonial sugar would be equalized, and during that period the proposed measure would operate in favour of the colonial planters. There was advantage to be gained from the extension of competition. This was a proposition so plain that it Gould hardly bear argument. He could not help saying that his Noble Friend, when he said " competition in sugar would be injurious to the colonial planter." He entertained the most confident belief that the British colonists would be enabled to reduce the prices of sugar, and he could not help expressing the greatest satis • faction at the evidences which were afforded them, both in the West Indies and in the Mauritius, of the tendencies on the part of the planters to introduce a better mode of cultivation and generally improving their system of growing, so as to increase the amount of their produce. These improvements were pro• gressive in Jamaica, Trinidad, Antigua, and in almost the whole of the colonies. The planters were beginning to see the identity of the species, and they were commencing to im prove the condition of the negro. lie believed that the crop which was now in course of coming to the markets of this country would turn out greatly superior to former crops; and in proof of the progressive improvement, he might instance the imports within the last few years. In the year 1845 the imports amounted to 45,000 tons ; in the year 1846 the state ment was 50,000 tons ; and at the present time there were in course of being sent to this country 60,000 tons, being an in crease of one-fifth on the produce of last year, or 15,000 tons on that of 1845. F or these reasons he would reject the amend- ment of the Noble Lord. Lord ASHBURTON totally objected to the course of legis lation adopted cn this subject. The negroes in the British colonies, with an inferior soil, were expected to cope with the cheap labour and better soil of Cuba and the Brazils, and the result would naturally be, that the British colonists would he driven out of the markets. They were seeking to reduce the price of a small article of consumption, by sacrificing the interest and lives of hundreds and thousands of individuals. There never was a subject which demanded more of their Lordships' consideration than this, because the measure itself depended upon evidence and calculation. It would lead to the introduction of the worst kinds of sugar into breweries, and thus it would have the additional effect of stimulating the slave-trade. It was rather in sonsistent for them to be spending large sums of money in attempts to suppress the slave-trade, while they were directly stimulating it in another way. Lord MONTEAGLE wished to explain the vote he was about to give, because he did not wish it to go abroad that he was supporting a measure of the serious character represented by the Noble Lord. Whatever might be its effects upon the revenue, it had become absolutely necessary that sugar should, for the present, be introduced into breweries, but really its effect upon the sugar market would be so insignificant, that it was not worth while instituting any inquiry into that branch of the subject. Its effect upon the market, it had been de monstrated, would be infinidecimally small. In saying thus much, however, he did not wish to commit himself upon the measure for the reduction of the duty on rum. There he thought an inquiry was necessary, and, when that Bill came before them, he should vote accordingly.--( Hear.) The Duke of RICHMOND said it had been urged that this measure would confer no very material benefit upon any class, and that in his opinion was a sufficient reason for inquiry. In his opinion the measure would produce injury rather than good. The Noble Lord, who had just sat down, had told them that there was a Bill about to come up to that House that he was anxious should be inquired into, because it was based upon erroneous calculations. Now, these two Bills came from the same shop, and if the one was wrong he bad a right to suppose that the other was too. Last ae.iort the agricultural party had been deceived, with the free-trade measure, and it was the duty of their Lordships to see that they were not deceived again.—(Hear.) The manly declaration of his Noble Friend now at the head of the Board of Trade admitted as much, and he must be allowed to say that he better liked a faic and manly opponent than an insidious friend.—(Hear, hear.) It was the duty of th tit Lordships not to allow any measure to pass without a full and ample inquiry into its details, or the agricultural party might be victimised again. —(hear, hear.) If they wanted to give the people good wholesome beer, let them get rid of the malt-tax.—(Hear.) A partner of Mr. Whitbread in his evidence given before the committee which sat upon this subject said, beer made from sugar was wretched stuff, and the only way to make it good and wholesome was to manufacture it from English malt and hops. He asked whether the parti sans of that measure would go to the hustings and say to the people, " We promised you cheap bread, but cheaa bread yod have not got ; but now we promise you cheap beer ;" and some poor man, more daring than his neighbour, would taste this cheap beer, which would half poison him and all his boon cons- panions.—( Laughter.) Ile thought that Parliament had been for some time in the habit of passing measures which ulti mately in their operation, by their defects, gave little satisfaction to the country, in conseq uence of passing mea sures with little inquiry, or with no inqui ry at all, and liey m i g ht expect by and bye that the country w ou ld not respect the measures of Parliament at all. He begged to be understood that he did nut give his vote for going into Select Committee for the purpose of defeating the Bill, and he hoped that the Noble Lords who agreed with him would get credit for it, that it was no intention of theirs to defeat the Bill by the Com mittee which had been moved for; indeed, if the Noble Lord in that Committee should make out the case which he had pre sented, he (the Duke of Richmond) would support the Bill, but he certainly would like to know, before the Bill passed into operation, that the effect of it would not b e t o po i son half the people.—( Laughter.) Much had been said on the other side about putting off the Bill ; but surely in the case o f t hi s last, of all the measures, there could be no objection to deferring for two or three days, or even a week. He had alw ays been the advocat e ' for inquiry, as that which was most satisfactory to the minds of the people—inquiry into those subjects where inquiry had no tendency to unsettle the public mind on great public mercan tile interests. He and his Noble Friends did not act as the free traders had done in reference to the navigation laws, with minds hostilely set against these laws. They moved for this Select Commi ttee in a friendl y s p ir it , believing if it were granted that it would assist the manufacturing interests of the country, and certainly not destroy the maritime supremacy of the nation, and render her a secondary power in Europe. Lord BEAUIIONT said, in risin g t o a dd ress their Lord ships, he was convinced most distinctly that this Bill would either effect the intended object, or c rtainly that it could pro duce no harm. He was rather inclined to think that any effect it should produce would be very small, if it produced any at all. But he could not suppose that it would at all injure any colonial interests. If he were called upon to produce any argument in support of this, and against the amendment, he would instance the speech made by the Noble Lord who had moved for the Select Committee. That Noble Lord had moved for it in a speech not only exhausting the general principles of the subject, but exhausting it in the details. He would give the Noble Lord credit for his statements and his calculations, as correct. The Noble Lord, however, who followed put forward calculations which varied from those considerably, for his figures were from 180 to 210. But on whatever calculations the Noble Lord rested, he was convinced that sugar would never come into competi tion with barley, for sugar used in distilleries would only be used in assistance to the inferior qualities of barley. Its the Committee on the subject last year, it was given in evidence that there was no market for the inferior qualities of barley, and therefore sugar coming into use as an assistance would rather be in favour of than against the sale of barley. But this Bill, which was of little or no importance, was one which would produce little effect, and certainly one which would pro duce no harm. He acknowledged that the Bill was but a part of a consequence and a chain of measures some of them already passed, and some of them vet to follow. — (He ar, hear. ) H e always had maintained that when they had passed that first step, by repealing the corn-laws, it would be an injustice to stop short of free trade in full. If their Lordships had adopted a principle they must carry that out into all the ramifications of free trade ; the Sugar-duties Bill was a necessary sequence to the Corn Bill. The abolition of differential duties was a matter of mere justice to the colonies after the repeal of the duties en corn ; and this Bill was a just consequence, and if the colonies demanded it their Lordships could not refuse it. He doubted not but that after the excise duties had been con siderably reduced on manufactured produce as well as agricultural produce, that those duties that should be re tained, such as the malt-tax, which was a burden cn land, would come forward more prominently than ever. The Marquis of SALISBURY said he had been the mover for the Committee last year to consider the burdens on land, and he begged to remind their Lordships that the inquiry into the effect of the malt-tax, which he considered a burden upon land, was interrupted before they had well entered into it. This, therefore, he thought was the time for getting that inquiry resumed, and it ought not to be lost. The Noble Lord then proceeded in a very few sentences, which were almost inaudible in the gallery, to contend for the reduc tion of the malt tax, as a compensation for the object proposed by the present Bill. _ Lord REDESDALE said the principle of the Bill before their Lordships was not the principle of free trade, for that principle was contradictory to prohibition, produced by excess in duty on one article • but now, in this case, there would be an excess of d u t y , and it would be against the British pro ducers, the refiners of sugar. He believed that for the pur poses of brewing, malt and sugar might be reduced to equality in duty without bad effects ; but, as in the case of spirits, sugar would not come into competition with malt, he contended that it would become prohibitory if they should relieve sugar and have the duties on malt. He contended, therefore, that the effect would be to produce a prohibition against the British producer. The Marquis of WESTMEATH said that he felt it his duty to vote against the motion of the Noble Lord. He could not lend himself t• any measure calculated to embarrass the present Government, who had taken office under very peculiar circumstances in their financial mea.ures. Upon all those questions relating to Ireland, on which he thought himself better informed than the Government, he would reserve to himself the liberty of voting as he thought proper. Their Lordships then divided on the original motion, when there appeared— - Contents Non-Contents . Majority . —B The Bill then went through Committee without amend ments. 35 DISTILLING FROM SUGAR BILL. This Bill also passed through Committee without amend. ments. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid upon the table of the House several returns relating to the state of Ireland. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 19; The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four oVock. LONDON (CITY) SMALL DEBTS BILL. Mr. MASTERMAN moved the second reading of this Bill. Mr. BODKIN moved the adjournment of the second reading fora week or ten days. This Bill proposed to ex tend to the city of London the provisions of the Act passed last session for the recovery of small debts. The judge to be appointed under this Bill had not been appointed, in consequence of the existing differences between the Court of Aldermen and Common Council, and he thought it much better to postpone the consideration of this Bill until some adjustment of the differences had taken place. After a few words from Mr. MASTRRMAN and Mr. WARBURTON, strangers were ordered to withdraw; no division, however, took place, and the Bill was read a second time. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time, and or dered to be committed:— Braintree and Halstead Railway. Bridge House Estates Debt. Darwen Wat• rworks and Reservoirs. Dundee and Newtyle Railway. Dundee and Perth Railway (Alteration and Extension, and Inchture, Polgavie, and Inchmichael Branches). Eastern Counties Railway (Spalding to Newark). Eastern Counties Railway (Peterborough to Folking ham). Eastern Counties Railway (Wisbech to Spalding). Inverness Gas and Water. Kilmarnock Police and Improvement. Leicester Waterworks. Liverpool, Manchester, and Newcastle-upon-Tyne Junction Railway (Alteration of Main Line and lalawos Branch. - London (City) Improvements. Midland Railway (Erewash Valley, &c.) Pile Pier Extensions. Scottish Union Insurance Company. South Staffordshire Railway (Cannock, Wyrley, and Norton Branches, &c.) DROPPED PRIVATE BUSINESS OF THURSDAY. The following Bills, which were appointed to be read yesterday, were read a second time: — Boston, Stamford, and Birmingham Railway (Peter borouzli and Thorney Line). Cheltenham and Oxford Railway. Edingburgh, Leith, and Granton Railway (Leith Ex- tension). Edinburgh, Leith, and Granton Railway (Union Canal and Caledonian Railway Junction). Liverpool, Manchester, and Newcastle-upon-Tyne Junc tion and Northern Counties Union Railways Amal- gamation. London and South-Western Railway (Andover to the Bishopstoke and Salisbury Branch, &c.) NEWPORT, ABERGAVENNY, AND HEREFORD RAILWAY (EXTENSIOF TO TAFF VALE RAILWAY). O❑ the motikin of Mr. GREENE, this Bill was read a se ond time, although more than seven clear days had pled since the first rcading of the Bill. NEWPORT, ABERGAVENNY, AND HEREFORD RAILWAY DEVIATIONS BILL. Mr. GREENE moved that in the case oF this Bill the standing orders, requiring that no more than sever. clear days should elapse between the first and second readings, should be set aside.—Motion agreed to. Bill read a second time. NORTHERN COUNTIES UNION RAILWAY DEVIATIONS BILL. In this caso the standing order was also dispensed with, and the Bill renal a second time. Mr. COI RALLY presented a petition from the county of Month, praying that measures be taken for establishing a system of ra ly, ays in Ire!and, for giving compensation to tenants-at-will for improvements on the land, and ior pri,moting emigration. Major MACNAMARA presented a petition from the county of Clare., praying that measures be taken to em ploy the marine in the importation of foreign corn, to relieve the destitution in In land. WASTE LANDS. Mr. 0. GORE presented a petition from the Commis sioners of Waste Land=, praying that they may be em powered to raise loans for the improvement of these COPPER DUTIES. Mr. MUITI72 presented a petition from merchants and manufacturers in Birmingham, praying for the repeal of the duties on copper ore. They complained that those duties since 1831 had been increased nearly 1,000,0001. The Hon. Member gave notice that on Monday ho should move that the petition be printed. T 1111; BLACK CAT. The FIoN. IlEmnEn said he also had a petition to present from the owners of the " Black Cat " (Lnughter) -- stating that they had suffered great grievances, scud complaining of the conduct of the Go vernment. Me should move the printing of the petition oa Monday. Toou REMOVAL BILL. Several Hon.. Members presented petitions against this Bill. THE SMALL DEBTS BILL (WALES). Mr. WILLAAMS presented a petition from a place in the county of .Pembroke, signed by magistrates, clergy men, and other respectable persons, praying that the judges to be :appointed under this Act for Wales might be persons possessing a knowledge of the language of the Principalilly. 7 (llear,. hear.) IIOUlt:;' BILL. Mr. FERE:, &ND presented a petition from the mem bers of the Sc ciety of United Trades in favour of this Bill. RAILWAYS. Mr. B. ESCOTT wished to present a petition to which he 'Wished to direct the attention of the Honourable IY..ember for Sunderland (Mr. Hudson). It was from a :tr. J. A. Gordon, who stated that he was a shareholder iiu a railway from Bristol to Portbury, and that the sh cres of that line were at a discount— (Laughter)- - that in the neighbourhood of the line there were 7,000 in:employed Irishmen, and that it would be of great be. , 2( fit to the neighbourhood, and raise the shares to a pr emium, if they could be employed on the line.—(Roar s of laughter.) :BREWING FROM GRAIN. Mr. S. CR A WFORD pr, , s , , , nted a petition from a place in Cumberla ad, praying the llouse to prohibit the use of grain in dis. 511eries during the present dearth of pro visions. POOR-LAW. Lord RE F:DLESIIAIVI presented a petition from Beccles, aga7l3ist any alteration in the Poor-law. LIG'IITHOUSE DUES. The NOM' Al LORD also presented a petition frora seve ral shipownt n —s, praying for the reduction of the light house dues. Mr. M. G IBSON presented a petition from the board of guardians of Manchester, praying that in any altera tion which ; night be made in the law of settlement faci lities might be provided for persons obtaining a settle ment in the• parishes where they had laboured. The Zion. Memt er also presented a petition from the Cham ber of Com! n(!rce of Manchester, praying that duties on butter and cheese might be repealed ; also a petition from the C ornmercial Association of Manchester, pray ing that the expense incurred for the relief of the evils which afdic ;eta Ireland might not be paid from the cur rent revenue' , of the country. ROrd AN CATHOLIC MARRIAGES. Mr. J. O'( X )KNELL presented two petitions from the catholic ar clibishops and bishops of Ireland, praying for an immediate alteration of the law regulating mar riages betwe en Catholics and Protestants, and also com plaining of I:he Catholic clergy being excluded from the privileges en, jo yeti by their fellow-subjects. :RELIEF FOR IRELAND. _ Sir B. PE ai,presented a petition from Liverpool, nu merously sign* d by the inhabitants of that city, stating that they had' looked with considerable anxiety to the commencemerA t of the present session, to see what mea sure would be a dopted for the relief of Ireland, and stating that while th , It:y entertained the deepest sympathy with the necessitie 3 of that country, and would cheerfully pay their share of any burden that might be imposed, they hoped that sc ale financial arrangement would be made, so as to relies NI the sufferings of the poor of this country, while extendi au relief to Ireland. SALT DUTIES. The RIGHT Mori. BARONET also presented a petition from a salt nto nutacturer of Liverpool. The petitioner stated, that, in consequence of an application made to the' East India Company with respect to the im por t a tio u of salt into Calcutta, he received an , assurance that salt might be exported to that place in t' same way that other articles were usu ally exported. In consequence of this statement, a con siderable exp , ntation of salt took place to the East Indies, and to the great surprise of the owners, there were very Ilea ry duties found to be imposed, and on application be it ,g made for permission to land the salt, it was at once refused, and thus considerable loss was entailed upon tI le exporters. The petition prayed that the House WOI 11 -1 interpose its authority to prevent the recurrence of n ich a circumstance in future. -RAJA OF SATTARA. Mr. IIAW; ;1; . ; presented a petition from the inha bitants of Lam beth, praying for an inquiry into the case of the R; tj a of Sattara. RATE -PAY., EN 7G CLAUSES IN THE REFORAL BILL. Captain PEC: HELL presented a petition from the inhabitants of B: ighton, praying for the repeal of the rate-paying drat ies in the Reform Act, which they con sidered as unsou t id in policy and unjust in principle, and contrary to the a lirit of the Reform Act. POOl t-LAW FOR IRELAND. Mr. HUTT 13t •esented a petition from a number of p e rsons, praying the Government to pass a poor-law for Ireland. AMEND: NIENT OF SCOTTISH LAW. The LORD-.A .DVOCATE gave notice that he would bring in some dls with the object of amendicg the law of Scotland. LANDED) PROPERTY (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. B. ESC-0 TT, in the absence of Mr. Roebuck, gave notice far that Hon. Member, that when the Landed Propert3 (Ireland) Bill was brought under the consideration oil the House, he would move that any plan having for its o'oj. act the advancement of loans to the Irish landed propric !s was unjust, unless the same principle of taxation w .hic h was applied to the proprietors of land in Great Bri G,ixi was extended to them. EMIGRATION. Mr. V. S 'NMI gave notice that, on the 4th of March, he would bring under the consideration of the House the nece. , s Ery of extending the powers of the Irish Ereigrati on Society. M. J. 'OOONgELL gave notice that, on Monday next, h' would present a petition from the board of guardians of the Killarney Union, praying for a gene ral system of taxation. CRACOW. Mr. HUME postponed, till Thursday next, the motion regarding the suppression of the republic of Cracow,. which he had on the paper last night. . _ THE ECCLEStA.CTICAL-COMAIISSION. Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that nn an early day he would bring in a Bill to alter the constitution of the Ecclesiastical Commission. Before he did so he would be able to stat, the precise words in which he would intro duce the subject. He made this statement on account of a notice which appeared on the paper. WEST HIGHLANDS. Mr. ELLICE said he would, on Monday nest, call :he attention of the House to the state of the West Highlands of Scotland, and the steps which had been taken to relieve the distress. IRISH CORPORATION BILL. Captain LAYARD begged:to ask the Right:Hon. Gen tleman the Secretary for Ireland, if it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to bring forward the Irish Corporation Bill during this session of Parliament? Mr. LABOUCHERE said the subject had been under the consideration of the Government, and they had pre pared two Bills, which they would introduce at such a period of the session as would give the House ample op portunity to give it their consideration. CONVICT COLONY AT BERBICE. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY read a statement from a colonial newspaper, to the effect that the Rev. Mr. Kelly, Roman Catholic priest, sent out by the Govern ment to officiate to the convicts of that persuasion, had bQen refused the liberty ofofficiating without the sanction of the Rev. Mr. Bell, prison chaplain in the colony, and that that rev. gentleman had refused his sanction. The consequence had been that the Roman Catholics had been without religious instruction. The num Member wished to know whether this conduct had the sanction of the Government. • Mr. lIAWES said the Gos aliment had had no report on the subject, nor information, further than that which the Hon. Gentleman himself 'possessed; hut he had no hesitation in saying that the Government would take steps to ascertain the truth of the report. CORONERS' INQUESTS. Mr. BARCLAY begged to ask the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether it was intended to do anything to remedy the state of co roners' inquests ? Sir G. GREY said that an inquiry was to be made with a view to a remedy. IMPORTATION OF FLAX SEED INTO IRELAND. Mr. FOSTER wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentle man the Secretary for Ireland a question with respect to the introduction of flax seed into Ireland. He had been informed by a gentleman connected with Ireland that Government had lately been importing flax seed into Ireland, and he had yesterday received a letter from a firm at Limerick, stating that such was the fact ; and as they felt that it would he perfectly useless to attempt to compete with Government, they wished him to ascertain that fact, and he (Mr. Foster) wished, therefore, to learn whether it was or was not true that the Government had imported flax seed into Irela'id? Mr. LABOUCHERE said it was true that with a view to improve a part of the country in which the flax had been much impoverish the Government had im ported a small quantity of excellent seed into the neigh bourhood of Limerick. If the Government were rightly informed the whole of the seed hitherto used iu that part of the country was American. With a view to amend the quality of the seed they had introduced a small quantity, not more than 6001bs. at the utmost But he might dis tinctly say that it was not the intention of the Govern . ment to intrceinee any more, for it was their impression, and be wished it to go forth expressly to the public that they held it unwise to interfere with private c3mmercial enterpri,e by the competition of Guvernm.:nt.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman might therefore rely upon it that they would introduce no more flax seed into Ire land. STEAM COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE WES r INDIES AND AFRICA. Mr. BARKLY wished to ask whether it was true that a steam-vessel hail been put on by Government, to establish a communication between the West Indian colonies and the coast of Africa? Mr. B. HAWES said that it was quite true that a steam-vessel, expressly put on by Government with officers under their authority, was en gaged to communicate between the West Indian colonies and that part of the coast of Africa where neither slavery nor slave trading existed. He must, however, state distinctly that the measure was an experimental one. It would be immediately under the superintendence of the Government, but it would not extend beyond the period of one year. If there were found natives of the country who were willing to emigrat:, to the West Indies, they would be conveyed thither free of expense. Mr. BARKLY wished to know what was the name of the vessel? Mr. HAWES replied, the' Scourge." RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION ACT. Mr. FEIIRAND wished to ask the Right Honourable Gentleman the Attorney-General whether the Railway Clauses Consolidation Act provided any, and what, pro tection for the property of tenants in tail ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied, that the Act was so much involved in doubt, that it would not be prudent for him to answer the question of the Hon. Gentleman. TEN HOURS' FACTORY BILL. Mr. BRIGHT desired to know whether the Noble Lord had any objection to lay upon the table of the House a memorial, signed by between three and four hundred factory proprietors in Lancashire, em ploying one hundred and twenty thousand hands. The subject of the memorial had reftrence to the Factory Bill. He wisned that it should be in the pus- session of the Members of the House before the ques tion came on again for further consideration. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he would lay it upon the table on Monday next. RAILWAYS FOR IRELAND. Mr. COLLETT would wish to nut a question to her Majesty's Government as to whether it was their inten tion to give any assistance to those railway companies from whom. baronial presentments had been made. There had been a presentment made in the barony of Cremoyne, in the north of Ireland, for the assistance of a local railway, and the directors were most willing to take the support of the able-bodied labourers from the relief committee. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that there had been a general rule to give assistance to those companies en gaged in making the earth works, and if any peculiar case arose it would be competent for the directors to memorialise the Government. SESSIONAL ORDERS. Mr. HUME begged to ask a question of the Speaker as to the rules of the House. By a rule of the House the Speaker was bound to leave the chair at six o'clock on Wednesdays, and no Member was permitted to speak. Now, he understood that after that hour the division of the House was declared.—(Hear, hear.) The question was, could the report bf the division be received after six o'clock? If they deviated five minutes they might as well deviate fifty minutes. The SPEAKER said, the Hon. Member was right in stating that the House must be adjourned at six o'clock without putting the question. But this must take place when there was not a division, and the doors were unlocked. In the present instance there was a division, and the doors were locked at six o'clock. He could not therefore, in pursuance of the standing nr.ler, adjourn the House till after the division, and when the doors were opened. —(Cheers.) MEASURES FOR IRELAND—THE BUDGET. Sir A. BROOKE wished to know the intentions of the Government as to the course they intended to take respecting the measures proposed for Ireland. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, the Honourable Gen tleman wished for the information of the Irish Members to know the course the Government intended to take. What they proposed to do was to go into Com mittee on the Labouring Poor (Ireland) Bill to-night. This was a Bill to sanction the proceedings which had taken place under the direction of the Lord-Lieutenant. With regard to the other Irish Bills, he did not think of going into Committee at present, as there were several amendments proposed to be made in them. On Monday next he proposed that either himself or the Chancellor of the Exchequer would make the financial statement, after which he would propose the second reading of the Railway Bill. He did not think they would 8 o on with any Irish measures that night; on next Friday, he would propose going into a Committee of Supply fur the voting of the naval estimates; and on Monday fortnight he would bring under the consideration of the House the Irish Bills now postponed, namely, the Bills fur the Improvement of Irish Estates, aid fur the Relief of the Poor. The Earl of LINCOLN wished to know what were the nature of the amendments ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said they were mainly of a technical cha acter. He had no objection to:the Bills b.•ing committed pro forma now, and recommitted on Monday fortnight. BLACK CAT. Mr. MUNTZ said as he had not had the opportunity of bring forward his motion on this particular, he would take the earliest opportunity of doing so. DUKE OF BRUNSWICK. Mr. DUNCOMBE postponed his motion on the in jury sustained by the Duke of Brunswick from the violation of thu 63d article of the Treaty of Vienna, till Thursday week. BRITISH MUSEUM. Mr. lIUME complained of what appeared to him to be the irresponsibility of that institution to the public, an institution to which they had been votinc , yearly from 40,000/. to 50,0001. An election had taken place in that body of a person, no doubt worthy to be con nected with the institution ; but what he com plained of was, that the departments of science and natural history were not properly represented. He had formerly moved for a committee of inquiry, and was opposed by the Government, but he now positively inti mated that he would not accede to any vote of money unless something satisfactory was done in reference to it. Lord J. RUSSELL said the subject was under the consideration of her Majesty's Government. LIBOURING POOR (IRELAND) BILL. On the motion that the House go into Committee on this Bill, Mr. 11. BAILLIE said he begged to offer a few words, in consequence of a misrepresention that had been made with respect to some observations of his. He (Mr. Baillie) was represented to have stated, in answer to a question of the Noble Lord the Member for Lynn, that, as a Scotch representative, he would not vote English money to relieve Irish distress. The Noble Lord had repudiated that on the part of Scotland. Ho (Mr. Baillie) also repudiated such an expres sion, and he would be ashamed to have ever made use of such. The Noble Lord was not satis fied with having misrepresented his (Mr. Baillie's) words, but he took the trouble to inform the ITouso that his (11r. namls wns 114 _ . (Mr. Beillie's) ancestors were- ice e ,e; et se bolero (as we understood the Ifeneurel.le Menib c 'r) Noble Lord's ancestors had en acre there.—(Laug n lie (Mr. Baillie) was ready to give his su to all the measures her Majesty's Govern might bring forward that wou:d in his opinion be hated for the benefit of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) , Mr. D. BROWNE said, that however indisposed ne to detain the attention of the House from the several rai which this Bill was intended to relieve, he yet could not calling its notice te the frightful catalogue of evils which daily recurring in his county. The Hon. and _L e Member for Cork had a fortnight ago stated, unless were granted that two millions of people would lose lives in Ireland. Ho had himself read, in the f,l e Journal, a statement that upwards of 500 persons we _ A day. To this he might add the statement which apee 1 7, that journal on the 1 I th. instant, in which it was sai d tn ' e less than 671 coffins had been carried to the g in one union within a month. To this the nourable Gentleman added a number of instances of ners ful suffering which were recorded in the same e r d r ; In Sligo, also, the people were dying of starvation , se, ef, revolting case of misery which had recently come to his knowledge. A man named Malrowny per an ass for a few shillings. He lived for a short time elet e portion of its carcass, and he died from the effects of wee, wholesome and disgusting food. The Hon. Member gri; series of other case', but in so low a tone as to be inanone the gallery. He did not wish to detain the House, but that the time had arrived when no Irish Member cote silent, and when they should demand Parliament to sc,:es forth a more helping hand than had hitherto been eaten ...ne le" occurreed Ireland. He asked what was the use of legislating for 7,aiti if they were desolated by hunger and disease? eneel the attention of the House to Ireland, and earnestly !ley that they would take immediate means for relieving the re of Ireland. tIY Mr. LEFROY said, as the Noble Lord had stated s Irish measures would be postponed for a certain Iser' eett 714 thought it proper to avail himself of th a t opportunity the dreadful condition of that country before the House. ic et it appeared to him most important that if I r ish Member s to remain here, away from the sph ere i n th e ir own ! eOO Ottwhere they might minister with a, v an t age to the consgee t ti relief of their countrymen, it was th e i r d u ty in that fleeT e r state, not only far her Majesty's Mi n i s t ers but for the tion of the British public, that there was no exegete 0 io s the statements made as to the distress whi c h prevailed country. In making the statements which he was abo or make, he would not cast the slightest reproach on her _ se s jesty's Ministers, for he believed that to the extent of I f power they had ministered to the relief of that country l e e as they could see their way. But in the c ircumstances le their duty to lay the condition of that country before from said he would read to the House some extracts fro a letter , he had received within the last two days respecting a 0 1 e 0 0 Ireland, he meant Roscommon. It stated that they w sd i a melancholy condition in that county, and that on SO? clergs man's horse had died for want of sustenance, o y poor people insisted or cutting him up, and carrying s° j e t ar carcase for food. In many parts of Roscommon grea t :4S tions had been made by the resident landed proprietors meo the population in the existing distress, but all they CO lie went but a little way. What then must be the state ofthor es tricts in which the same attention was not bestowed . t o anxiously implored the Government to reconsider whether ' t bs not possible to introduce a more comprehensive scheme, to any they had yet proposed, to avert the misery and d b ot which existed in Ireland to a greater extent or e they had ever before existed in any civilised ee e e Wifb respect to those temporary measures that had r t e troduced, no relief had been received from them. r i e , e sdi gard to the future, ruin would necessarily ensue to theseely if they were taken from labour on the public works• of regretted that her Majesty's Government had acted 0 , 0 y had done in not allowing some portion of the grant s eet ed applied to the purchase of seed, and he trusted they "" is re-consider the question.—( The Hon. Member here res.eibe extract from a letter corroborating his views.) Attention e'' oo l question was indispensable to the preservation and resters ° e el Ireland. He must deny the imputation that had beer t ee! upon that vilified class, the landhirds of Ireland. that .bete were intent only upon putting money into their pockets. 01 were many cases where landlords had not received a fardn e e :iti their rents. He felt bound to avail himself of that opper t ia es , to lay before the Howe the views which he thought won neflt Ireland. thf, e Sir B. HALL rose with several other Members, b et e ultimately gave way, and the Hon. Baronet said that 'b u ts' net intended to take any farther part in this discussion; e big he had an opportunity of saying a few words, he would tc:b a d state that he did not retract one single word of what b t hee uttered the other night, because the assertions b e t 0 1 made had been made from the substance of teb a t ree an authentic report, and he believed that that report 'l s o bar% He had said that it was a strange thing that Irish the sles should come down to the House praying for relief for teetbel tress in Ireland, and stating that if their rents were P e would willingly have provided for the poor in that ce°°tritoe; this if any English Members got up to express an opie i i• e e dis' subject, they were told either that they did not feel for e e the tress, or they did not understand the circumstances ie for country. Now, he did say that it was a great gew p f tbee , gentlemen to come there from the neighbourhood of ei" and make long speeches, white they made no the distress themselves. The Hon. Member for Mtgi Ay spoken to the extent of the distress, and bad very idyll os. scrided the terrible sufferings in his country, and yet a j, .01 connected with a bodz of men who collected large rent s, b e spent large sums in Conciliation Hall. It was true tot to knew nothing about it—( Hear)—but he would just releL, t . the report for the money that was expended in March4 tt effort to roelilesoise In March the amount was 9251.; in April 930/.; in May a l b; June 7061 .; in July 748/4 in August 1,13214 in Sep t. 49 lb in Oct. 3471 .; in Nov., when the papers were teeming "l e the horrors of Skibbereen. the amount was 602/. Now, wh y was not some of this money applied to the relief of the self people of Ireland ? Why did not Memb ers o f th a t House "she had influence with the association en d eavour t o i n duce - association to render its assi s ta nce i n the mitigating the dist ils - 1 ' and not come to that Hou se comp l a i n i ng that I re land 9 1; being neglected by England, while in point of fact the Isel i ; of this country were doing a ll i n t h e i r power by way of scriptions and otherwise, to relieve the distress. Colonel VERNER agreed with the Hon. Baronet in whiteb:ebet he stated, with respect to the money for the repeal rent, white had been collected from a starving people, but he regretted°irt. add, that it was not a voluntary, but a compulsory ner ee ce ll There was another subject, however, to which he wished to r tio the attention of the House, because he believed it to be ° ge reatest importance in considering the Bills before the 1 1 ?° , „ namely, the sub-letting of land, or, more properly spe ae, o lo .the cutting it up into shreds and patch e s. That subjec t be very little known, he believed, either to that House or t 0 lei people of England. It was an evil of the gr ea test rnageit b e but he did not think that the present landlords should eels blamed for what should be set down to the account of predecessors. As an instance of the evil, he would just ete es the attention of the House to his own parish, and he i t e this case first, because he was more intimately acquainted el it it than any other part of the country; and secondly, becttl e t belonged to the heart of what was called the favourite Par es i s Ireland—the province of Ulster. In that parish, two-the" - tot of which was in the county Tyrone, and the remaining P ee s ° in the county Armagh, when the calamity, which at 10 prevailed over the country, commented, a relief committee ,0 r established, and meal was distributed once a week, and ' e sle trice. There were at present four hundred and thirtP eo milies seeking relief from that committee, and of t b , b t thirty-five only possessed as much as an acre of land; s° e s he 395 families, or (allowing five persons to the family) near' 2 individuals had no land whatever. Of the reinaii°" o 7 thirty-five families, consistng of 166 persons the arnottert e the land in their possession was just eight acres and a e b e , perches. Four of these families occupied seven acres, and e ar remaining portion of the land was divided among the °tee( thirty-one families. That would give the House some idea the state of things which existed in what was es" t the favoured part of Ireland, and would show wee would be the effect of giving out-door relief. it asserted that if this measure of out-door relief were granted e would convert all Ireland into a poor-house, and absorb te te whole property of the country. He should like to know hi? Honourable Member for Bath what he had to say to the r e ; tore which he had just drawn? One thing he thought It°, be very clear, that the cottier system was the grea t e st s ores under which Ireland laboured. A few days ago he received letter from the rector ofan adjoining parish t o th a t w hich' , e e had just referred to. He was a brother o f a N o bl e Lord who was a Member of that House, the Rev. Francis Clements' (The Gallant Colonel read the letter which described the e% istence of the distress in that locality to be beyond conception, and that notwithstanding all the exertions of the poor line o " weavers they were unabl e t o p rocure sus t enance , owing to t he high price of provi s ion s .) Wh en h e (C o l one l V erner , last ad dressed the House, he took the liberty of saying a few words 01 ; behalf of the I r i s h l an dl or d s , an d h e r epeate° that they did their duty and exerted them se l v es to th e best of their means, and ten times more than the ir means would permit them, •but what could they do to re lieve, such an overwhelming amount of destitution as that whie." prevailed in Ireland ? He asserted that the wealth of this country, to which Ireland had been so long united, ought t.° be extended to mitigate the evils of the emergency. For his own part, he rejoiced to see the unanimity which prevailed ott both sides of the House to relieve the destitution, and he was ready to support any measures for that object, no matter from what political party they proceeded. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that some Hon. Gentleman had expressed au opinion that the House was not aware of the ex tent of the misery which prevailed in Ireland. For his own part he never concealed his opinions respecting it, and invaria bly said that it was scarcely possible to overstate the amount of suffering that existed in some parts of that country. It was most painful to him to receive the intelligence which every post brought him, and be could not convey to the House the feelings with which such accounts impressed him' If the statements were put forward with a view to induce G°' vernment to exert themselves the mere, he could assure th° 6 ,l who made th em t h at i t was not because the Governmen t were in ignoran ce o f t h em, or were d i sinclined to relieve t h em , lA' because of the limited powers at their command, which pre vented them from giving that aid which would adequat e i t meet the calamity. Th e y h a d, n ev er th e l ess , ma de an effoe, on an enorm ous sca l e , an d th ere were , a t th a t mornee" 600,000 persons employed, receiving relief from the G: lulls' verument money. That was an enormous debit t e could not be made without taxing very much re resources of this country; but when the people w e dying by hundreds and thousands, every exertion must banes d el and every sacrifice submitted to, to avert so tremendous ! calamity. He was satisfied, then, that if they had not bee!: able to prevent all those scenes of suffering, and destitution , an _ i f death, the sight of which pained them so much, neverthe less they were able to mitigate much of the misery by the rneesu r , which was passed at the close of the last session of Parliament.%loco e This measure was the principal, but not the only one by they had been able to extend relief. Soup kitchens had been 1 established under the direction of relief committees, wh o 'L 50 a were enabled, by grants from Government, to effect a grea t se tt , of good, by administering assistance to the most destitute. ILL. the efforts of any Government to relieve such an exteysebv: calamity, must be very limited. The true cause of distress, as had been observed, was the high price of provisliohnsi Was it in Ireland alone that the rate of provisions was high Let them look at France—in industrious France they ‘Vg% exceedingly high—and it is absolutely impossible by the wee forts of the Government to keep the rate of provisions le s ev r _t i Ireland while it is high in the other European states, from whence we are accustomed to draw our supplies. As rei might they attempt to keep the level of the Irish Ch higher higher than that ef the Atlantic Ocean. It was impur e , such a country as Ireland—so poor, and circumstanced existence was in respect of her social condition—to prevent the trO. of the greatest distress. The Hon. Gentleman whe e ll;,, er. duced the subject to the House, the Zlember for May o f ( the Dillon Browne) called the particular attention which House to the d es tit u t e state of the coun t y e as quite he represe n t e d, name ly th e ' co unty of Mayo. willing to admit that at all times that county had li suffeTed o m . Pe re . than any other in Ireland. It was also true that many t t deaths which had occurred from starvation , a very The e a pe n r u se w ns ber of them had occurred in the county of May o. to the class of mendicants, which at all times ar c e o a n But - who had, for the most part, perished from starvatiovner,:enluorangered.. ous bony, and maintain a very precarious condition. during the present calamity they had no procuring a subsistence, the doors heretofore they were t h veryPooreS accustomed to obtain charity from every place against them, although here e means were c h l a o t s e e v d e r 1:Inf . .~