The Sun. — London, England, 1840-04-03 00:00:00

,YEN ING EDITION to call th e a t tent i on o f t h e N o bl e L or d t h e S ecre t a ry for l lreland to this Report, because that Report, alluded par ticularly to the West Riding of Yorkshire. Mr. Chapman said that the Corn-laws, together with all other taxes on the raw material, no doubt affected in some degree the hand-loom weavers. He then went on to state that the soil and climate of this country were fully equal to that of any other country in the world, and that the industry and skill of the cultivators were su perior. He would now allude to the statements made by a gentleman in the employ of her Majesty's Government, and he made this allusion for the express purpose, and with the deliberate intention of bringing that gentleman before the bar of public opinion to answer for his statements, he thought he ought to be examined at the Bar. (The Honourable Member then read a statement of Mr. Lloyd's relative to the depreciation of the value of farms. and another statement of the same gentleman, relative to the state of the hand-loom weavers, which he asserted was not founded on fact.) That gentleman, clothed with the authority of the Government, had had the audacity tor put forth suc h s t a t e ments. He heel stated that Mr. Lloyd should b e requ i re d to give a further explanation on t hat point, and for that purpose. The Hon. Gent l e man tnen referred to Mr. Simon's reports on the state of agriculture in the south of Scotland, and of the condition of Belgium. A considerable fallacy prevailed in suppo sing that the Corn-laws drove manufacturers into other countries. O ne o f t h e proo f s o f this was supposed to be di s covered in the instance of Mr. Cochran, whose son set tled in Belgium in 1810. But in fact. it was the capital and Corn -laws s kill, and machinery of that gentleman , a n d not the seorn-laws, that established manufactures in Belgium. He deni e d t h at they who wishe d to protec t the land were in iffereat to all other interests. T o say so wa s a libel, he w ould bi say a stupid libel, not only up on the g entr y , e , " upon the whole aristocracy of E n g land. The Hon. Member then proceeded to comment upon the Pamphlet of Mr. Jones Lloyd, the arguments of which, he Contended were based upon fallacies and injustice. He Considered that the alteration could only be made upon the principle whi c h M r . li us ki s son had advocated. That was T Principle w hi c h h a d euided the Government of L ord Liverpool —which had guided the Government of the Duke of Wellington, and which had guided the Admin istration of Mr. Canning—and it remained now to be seen upon what grounds t he present Government i nten d e d t o proceed. T he Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies and him self (Mr. W. ) had been nurtured in different political faiths, and when a writer of no mean eminence, in order to give an idea o f th e s i ncer ity a nd love of country;of the Noble serve his country, he( Mr. Wodehouse) was not the b i got to doubt it fo r one moment. They were now about to launch eon a wide sea , w ith ou t co mpass or helm, and he, for one, dreaded the quicksands of progressive reform, and he t hought they were bound to call upon Parliament to inter- P,°:e bef ore t h ey comm i tte d t o the winds and waves in ark of their hallowed Constitution.—( Hear, hear.) al r- RICH would vote for going into Committee , at n l‘,l ough he was opposed to the total repeal of the Corn taWS. When the Chancellor of the Exchequer w as about ° Propose new taxes, he thought the House ought to in quire whether some relief might not be given by a mode rate and fixed duty on corn. His opinion was that there O ught to be an equalization of the duties on all foreign articles. It had been said that our manufactures had been Protaressing under the Corn-laws, but his opinion was that if they had progressed since the passing of the Corn-laws, i had b een in spite of them. No gentleman , he appre hended, could deny that the manufacturing interests were st ill menaced, and had greatly suffered, an that there was a mass of population dependant on the prosperity of the M anufacturing interest, to a far greater amount than those who depended on agricultural tabour for their support. Be would proceed to examine what bad been the result of the Corn laws—what had been the benefits it was promised they would confer, and the evils they would avert. He need nut go further back than the year 1815, when Mr. Robin son introduced those notable resolutions on which the pre sent system was formed. What were the promises by which Mr. Robinson gained the support of the whole agri cultural intere s t an d th e c onsent of the nation ? Mr. Ro binson promi se d a f u ll an d plentiful supply, so plentiful as to il make this country independent of foreign markets — th a t at supply would produce such a price as would tend to the observance of the engagements between landlords and tenants, and that the prices should be moderate. How were those pro mises fulfilled? (The Hon. Gentleman then entered into r s tatement showing that from 1773 to 1790 , under a free' trad e i n corn, the fluctuations in price were less than they had been since 1815, although there was during the former Period various alternations of war and peace—that those fl uctuations did not average more than ss. a quarter, a n d that 500,000 acres of land were brought i nto cultiv a ti on .) Wh a t had been the case under the law of 1815 ? Why that fluctuation of price had been greater than ever—the farmer had been ruined, and the labourer had ril opposing lmdbe any been driven to the workhouse. Hon. Gen tlemen,change in the Corn .laws, were fond o f drawing ideal pictures of what would be the state of the farmer and the labourer if the Corn-laws were repealed. H e (Mr. Rich) wished they would draw from memory in stead of imagination, and tell the House what misery the farmer and the labourer were involved in during the first se ven years of the Corn-law.—( Cheers.) Squire Wes tern, now one of the ablest defenders and most zealous sup- Porter s of the Corn.laws, as Lord Western, declared that the law o f 1 8 15 wou ld render the food and c omforts of the lower classes cheap and accessible. Why a State lottery for bread could not have been more speculative or more ctodrluel and ruinous in its operation tha n that measure of pro tection.._( Hear, hear, hear.) But the y mi g ht be that those were the errors of the first legisla tion on the subject, and that experience enabled the sages of 1822 to correct those errors. So utterly un conversant were they with those matters, that the law of .1822, intrcduced expressly to amend the law of 1815, was utterly and entirely inoperative, and, in 1824, the Govern ment of the day were obliged to come down to the House fora vote of indemnity to secure them from the conse quence of their own legislation. If further evidence were wanting of the mischievous effects of this law, it would be found in the declaration of one of the most able men who ever had a seat in that House, and who, from his official situation, was able to express an opinion worthy of attention—he alluded to Mr. Huskisson: and that Gentleman, in March 1828, de clared before Parliament and the country that he lamented from the bottom of his sou l, the masses of evil and misery, , . and the destruction of capital, which that law, in the course of its twelve years' operation had produced.—(Hear, hear.) But uninstructed by the past the landed interest still re solved upon the continuation of this system, and accordingly they had the law of 1828, which was no change of the system, but merely a simple relaxation and a moderation of it- That law was encumbered with the machinery of a graduated scale. From 1828 until the present period there had been imported a million quarters of wheat alone, and the importation of late years had gone on increasing. Then as t 0 fluctuations: the fluctuations since 1628 exceeded ane hundred and thirteen per cent., so that, in fact, none ;of Mr. Robinson's promises had been realized. He did not blame those who propounded these laws at all ---, what he blamed them for was for pertinaciously adher ing to a system after experience had proved its fallacy. If t hey referred to former periods, they would find the same c onsequence invariably resulting from the same system. A paper was much dwelt on last night which said flue tuaticns were much greater abroad, but these returns were p r oved by the President of the Board of Trade to be er roneous. He wished to know whether free trade was in t he in all those places. He had shown a tim e when I ne variations in England were considerably less, which ‘4" when we had free trade in corn. But t he Noble Lord th e Member for Shropshire said the labourers were W ell paid and sneere d a t the Anti-Corn-law lecturers. The farmers, no doubt, were satisfied with the Corn-laws ', 1 ,_ 18 15, but when they were crying out " Long live the i '° Corn -laws !" they were invoking ruin on themselves. Dis tress returned in 1829, and only left us within the last ~e _ w, years. Hon. Gentlemen say that the old system was ". 411 , but. the present system was working well. Why, since the year 1828, agricultural distress had been alluded i;irrl° less than five times in the speeches from the s i 0 . In 1858, gentlemen, of all ranks and profes sions, deposed before the Committee to great agricultural in.stress. He would read some of the evidence contained t he Report. (The Honourable Gentleman then re ad short ex t racts f r om the evidence of a num berof gentlemen, all testify of ine to the existence great distress in all the agricultural" districts of the , country, These were the witnesse s of the g entlemen of the landed interest to the effect of the C orn-laws, under theirt amended form, and most favourable circumstances. But gentlemen would say they were better off now, and so they tner the were ; but how ?—under financial difficulties, and , ma nufacturing prostration. They h ad p romised agricul turalpresperity, and many other thing s, but on the ave rage they had failed in all. He should like to know whe poor-rate and the c ounty-rate proposed in 1815, w i l a a substitute for the Corn-laws or not ? They had con waved, too, to shift off the property.tax from their o wn s houlder s on those of others, in the shape of the Ct he title hear, hear.) These burdens were as old as title of their estates, and yet they turned round, and claimedwould ask whether the county rates had not been trans teorred to the Consolidated Fund ; had not tithes been commuted, and three millions reduced from the poor the ? Again, it was urged it was necessary to protect ~,) agricult ur i sts , to ena bl e th e m to p a y their burdens. `-• uld anthieg be more absurd? Did not manufacturers _contribute to these? They had better tell them to plough o ur le the long wall at Liverpool, and sow its harbour. In anddience to the great eat command, they had gone forth, ra increased and m ultiplied and replenished the earth, and their up a population depending upon commerce for D ei , r, existence. If foreign markets were closed against '''nLsland, her glory would soon decay. The time had arri ved when we ought to have free trade in corn, and was it not better, then, to do away with all the evils which no wpress e d upon a s uperabundat t population for want of it ? e capitali s t an d fundholder m i g ht g o on some time l onger, but how long? Fur these reasons he advocated a change of system. Ile trusted that lion. Gentlemen would depriving the s ---m• pause before they rejected this motion, because t hen must b e we ll a ware, although they had the p ower of population of food, they had not the power 1° stop the g rea t w h e el of population. The cr y that had b een ~ rais e d aga i nst t h e presen t laws would soon reac h over ' li e whole nation, and though it might be stifled during the Present year or the next, it would ere long have obtained that ascendancy that it must be heard, and, when the Cr ash came, aw would go all their restrictiv e laws. Captain sure, because he was convinced, not only that it would se rinettsly inj ure t h e agr i cu l tura l i n t eres t, but the interests of .%t Lordwh ole n a ti on at l arge. H e cou ld by no means admit that took " . ch eap b rea d would f ol l ow f ree tra d e i n co rn. MORPETH said that during the protracted d is. eussio n Corn , place last y ear u p o n the question of the of o rlt laws, he h a d re f ra i ne d f rom o b tru di n g any opinion his upon the attention of the House, and for the same r eason h e s h ou ld re f ra i n now from occupying much of the time of th e H ouse . H e f e l t the great importance of the questi on to every relation in society, the subject bad been so long befor but tlle considering that side r i te that every question connect e d with ibthea,d and b e delib er a te l y argue d, h e f e l t t h at it would be al li anous, if not imp e rtinent, to take up th it. lie would, h owever, e c n on so - .. e time of the most super make a ~ Hou se w i t h di cussin g few observations, iu order to put the House in possession of what his own individual opinions were upon the sub ject. He was one of those who thought that it was most desirable that the views of every party, individually, who formed a Government upon a measure like the present should be known, and the only thing which reconciled him to the position of the Administration with regard to this question of the Corn-laws, was, the firm belief that a united Administration prepared to carry out the views he entertained upon this subject could not, in the present state of parties, in any way be formed.—(Hear, bear.) Feeling himself in this position, and not able to furnish any collateral sources of information, as he was not enabled to address the House with the authority that attached to a united Government, he must be content to give a silent vote on this question, in which he believed far greater objects than the support of any Adm inis t ration were at stake. He believed that in the county which he represented, the greatest interest and the deepest feelings existed on this subject, feelings which he believed yielded to no other constituency in the country. The petitions he had received upon this subject, and those which had been presented by his Hon. Colleague, who seconded the motion last night, seemed to him to exhaust in number those that had been presented at any other time. They had proceeded from every description of person, and every class of interest—in every department of labour. The worsted, the cotton, and the hardware departments, and also the agricultural districts ; and, after having been called upon by such numerous bodies, he found it difficult to re sist a motion that that House s hould resolve itself into a Committee to inquire into the operation of the Corn-laws. However much he should wish that no cry or clamour, how ever loud or urgent, if not founded on justice, should not receive the attention of that House, yet if that cry was founded on justice, he thought the House was bound to at tend to it. It therefore became proper to consider whether the complaints and the demands of the petitions that had been presented from every partof the kingdom were founded upon justice and sound policy, and he did believe if ever there was a cry raised to Heaven that was founded in justice it was that in which the people ;of the country called upon the Supreme Legislature to take measures for facilitating the access and increase in the quantity of food in the coun try, and the weal of its hard-worked and ill-fed population. ( Hear, hear.) He could not certainly dissemble his own individual views on this question ; those'views were in ac cordance with the arguments which had been adduced in the course of the discussion, that the Corn-laws were unwise, impolitic, unfair to either branch of labour, and ill calculated to effect the objects which they professed to have in view. He wished to estimate the character and tendency of this law, not by the view which any Government might take of it, but by his own views, and the result that he had arrived at was this—that if he was not prepared to consent to some alteration in the Corn laws, he could not conscientiously put up that petition, which all were instructed to use, for their daily bread. He thought that the whole scope and tendency of the present law was at variance with the spirit and scope of the ordi nary dispensations of Providence, who had given the pro ductions of the earth for the benefit of all its creatures. He thought, if it were desirable, it would be chimerical in the present state of things to entertain a notion of the re peal of the present Corn-laws, without leaving a verge, or some fiscal duty : and the House, by going into a Com mittee, would not be precluded from agreeing either to a fixed or a sliding duty. He thought, looking at the argu ments generally upon this subject, that they were favour able to a fixed duty of a moderate amount. With respect to the complaint of the continual recurrence of the agita tion upon this subject, there was only one way of doing away with that agitation, and that was by removing the grievance.—( Hear, hear.) If the people were oppressed and suffering from any particular cause, did they think that they could stop their complaint by taking no notice of their grievances ? " The flesh will quiver where the pincers tear, The blood will follow where the knife cuts deep." The agitation of this question put him mind of the de- I seription given by that great writer and observer of human nature of the surprise of the parish beadle when Oliver Twist demands more soup.—(Laughter.) For his own part he believed that this asking for more by the people could not be stayed, it was his belief that this cry was travelling to the most remote parts of the country, and that it would still go on until the people obtained what they desired. He had now stated the reasons which go verned him in the vote he should give upon the present discussion, and he thought it would require but little sa gacity to discover that that vote would not be given to the winning side. But with the views he entertained of the increasing power of this demand and the sound ground of justice and policy and the religious obligation upon which he conceived that it rested, there was nothing that he felt more confident of than its ultimate success. That having lived to see the freedom of religious opinion esta blished—the personal freedom of every British subject vindicated, that even the freedom of trade would be ap plied to foreign commerce at no distant day, and which would afford free scope for the efforts of domestic indus try, and would secure the benefit of harmony to all na tions.—( Hear.) Mr. GA LL Y KNIGHT said he believed that nothing short of a total abolition would give satisfaction to those at whose instance the present motion had been brought forward. lie denied that the cry for abolition was the cry of the people.—(Bear, hear, hear.) At a public meeting at Nottingham, a very distinguished political economist, an habitual agent of her Majesty's Ministers, was hooted out of a public meeting, convened for the express purpose of the condemnation of the Corn laws ; and the Hon. Member for Sheffield, though he presented a petition numerously signed, when he attempted to advocate the repeal of the Corn-laws, had not met with a very flattering reception. The people there were not deceived. They saw that this abolition would not operate for their advantage, but for that of those who were urging them on to it for their own advantage. They knew that cheap bread and high prices were not to be had at the same time—( Hear, hear)—and they saw the effect of the abolition of the law would only be to enable the master manufacturer to grind them lower than they were at pre stmi e , a n e st cause t C . e -- 0 r om: ( Hear, : un naiabolition ft a 3 . c h t. u e t ra large, ew r r . as ) s wn Thatobbtout tthe pressed rfe was sa s the real object. The cause edlao o sns f , t t h h ies and I n p t people, measure c e r , lea s n t so o not the (ein creasex()l,e, nso their ci., i:1:, fand nt gains,hde operatives Hear,by ii ea depressingr_ant and l i landed dr the price e proprietors. r rh i oe c pi e Lrr i eg o t f aoi rn l labour— (Oh, a o tu But there were bounds to human patience.—( au hter and cheering.) At last they would feel the patience.—(Laughter of honest indignation ; and feeling this, as he could not but do, he denied that the master-manuf ac t urers h a d any right to denounce them, or put themselves forward as th e particular friends of the people. For what was it they did for the people? He knew there were exceptions, and was willing to acknowledge it ; but, generally speaking, did not the master-manufacturers grind the bodies of the operatives, and neglect their souls--( Hear, hear)—turn them off by hundreds in a morning, whenever their profits fell ?—( Hear, hear.) In the manufacturing towns there was not a kindly spirit between the masters and men, be cause the operatives saw their masters had little concern for them when out of their factories, and only used them as machines for making money ; they had little concern for their spiritual and temporal welfare, they did not provide for them schools or churches, but left them destitute of either, and hence it was that Chartism and Socialism grew up in the suburbs of our manufacturing towns. And since these were facts not to be controverted, he asked whether the manufacturers had a right to denounce the landed proprie tors, and whether the latter ought to be sacrificed for them? But to argue this question with reference to the whole com munity, what had happened to induce them to negative now what they had confirmed last year, by so large a majority ? All the arguments knocked down last year were set up again, as if they had never been refuted. There was one novelty he saw with great regret. He saw for the first time the greater part of her Majesty's Minister's were arrayed against the agricultural interest, and because they were not perfectly unanimous, they had recourse to that high-minded expedient of open questions.--( Hear, hear.) Those who had any regard for the country, did not look on this with indifference, or without alarm. Since the discussion of last year, such a season had happened as the oldest man hardly recollected. It must be admitted that at the present moment trade was depressed, but when they were discussing this was it not fair to ask the ques tion, if the Corn-laws were in fault ?—( Hear, hear.) They would not, he supposed, be charged with having brought bad weather, but they had been able to mitigate some of its effects, for a graduating scale accommodated itself to the pressure of the moment, and allowed in the hour of need a quantity of Foreign corn to flow into the country, sufficient for the occasion, but not to over whelm it. This last season afforded a proof of its advantages, and he only wondered that corn had not been dearer, and the price of longer duration. He admitted there was a prospect that that might affect the home market to a certain degree. Gold at this time did go out of the country, but this was for a season, and seldom likely to recur again. He thought it possible to believe that inconvenience in future would be the exception, and corn at a reasonable price the rule. We could depend little for regular supplies on countries over which we had no control. He thought we ought not to give up that on which we could place dependence, for an uncertainty. It was said that free trade was a principle of foreign na tions, and if we would take their corn they would take our manufactures; but, as was said in another place, other countries would not adopt this principle, and if we did they would not dispense with the protective duties. When dis cussing this subject it would be well to consider that per haps we were more admired by foreign nations than beloved. Look to the conduct of Prussia and Portugal ; look to the proceedings in France, and the signs of jealousy which were exhibiting towards us, and let the House remember the words used the other day by the President of the United States—that no compensation could be made to a great country for being dependent on another for bread. He believed that every tradesman insured his premises—no doubt he grudged the expense, but lie preferred the outlay to running the risk, and he was of opinion that the Corn laws were a sort of national insurance against the seasons. —( Laughter.) He was of opinion that the farmer had a right to protection. but to that protection which he now enjoyed, and not such as was proposed by the Right lion. President of the Board of Trade ; rather than have such a protection, he would prefer none at all, for it would be but mockery and injustice. If there were to be no fluc tuations, the Noble Lord must bring in a Bill to control the seasons—to regulate that chartered libertine the wind, and make certain and equable the wind and the rain—but the Noble Lord was not a practical farmer. Lord MO RPETH—No ; a grazier.—( A laugh.) Mr. KNIGHT—Then, of course, he knows not so much of the matter as others who had practical experience. While they had fluctuating seasons, they must naturally have fluctuating prices. If he could not understand how any English Member should vote for the motion, far less could he understand why an Irish Member should, for Ire land was now the granary of England, and he prayed long, might she remain so. It was unnecessary for him to sae, Irishmen, remember the best interests of Ireland. Tire farmer was willing to go on with the protection at present afforded him, and therefore he hoped the House would reject the motion by as large a majority as it did last year, Mr. PRYM E—The motion of the lion. Member for , Wolverhampton was so g enerall y worded as to catch all `those who wished for any change in the present system of from le duty Corn b „IL THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, APRIL 3, 1840. the Corn-laws, but as his sentiments were well known to be in favour of a total repeal, and as he (Mr. Pryme) could not go along with him in that, he had thought proper to give notice of an amendment, which the Hon. Gentle man had termed an invidious one. Why it deserved that term he did not know—anything invidious meant more than met the eye, but his amendment was given in plain terms, and was the production of one who was evi dently a favourer of a graduated scale of duty. He con tended the landed interest was entitled to protection on the ground that it was taxed to a greater amount—he might say that taxes pressed more upon what he might call the manufacture of corn than upon the manufacture of any other commodity. He was not contending against the doctrines of free trade, of which he had always been a fa vourer, and he would give his reasons for thinking so. The first tax which pressed upon agriculture was that of tithe— it mattered not to whom the tax went, whether to the parson, the lay impropriator, or the State—whether it -rent to the Excise-office or to the parochial office—it was still an imposition upon the land, from which other manufac ures were exempt. The Honourable Gentleman read a long extract from Ricardo to prove this position. The other taxes which pressed upon agriculture almost exclusively, were Poor-rates, County-rates, Highway rates, and Church-rates. These rates were imposed at a time whan the monied interest and the funds were un known, when there was little property but the move ables of the nobility and the chapelries, and therefore the land was the only ostensible property for taxation, and it was taxed. It might be said that silk and cotton mills paid those taxes also, and so they did, but to what amount ? —( Hear, hear.) From all calculations ho had made these four taxes were imposed upon one-fifth of the pro duce of land. To find out how much was paid by the manufacturer was a most difficult matter to ascer tain, but he had made inquiries, and, from answers given him by a retired manufacturer, he was led to believe that the rent of one of the mills bore about the e p e r r o d p ih or g t i teen those of one-fiftieth eale ul calculations, a oa,f the it its I p a r a o d d u p c a e lt t e h h e r timesf r ,a c more of those taxes than the manufacturing establishments, and according to the principles of free trade, agriculture ought to have some countervailing protection against the importa tionsaid that interest some ; a and db firstons insurances by ohfeefoaregigivneparotdoucteh.e agricultural r mighti u might be mentioned that redu ction made u p on tu r b a e l by Lord Althorp, but what did it amount to?-3s. per cent., which, upon a farm of 300 acres, did not amount to one penny per acre. Then the Window and the House Duty, buthe was ashamed to enter into such trifling details. Mr. WARBURTON—The Legacy Duty, Mr. PR YME was obliged to his Hon. Friend, but he would ask what was the duty upon the transfer of 1,000/. or 100,000/. of funded property? Then came the ques tion of amount. Was the present protection a fair one? He contended that it was too much even for the landed interest, because it gave rise to great fluctuations. There were times of high prices which forced lands into cultiva tion ; and then low prices, which forced it again out of cultivation, in a sort of pendulum fashion, which was alike ruinous to the landlord, the farmer, and the consumer. If they were to take a low figure in the scale of duty he could not help thinking the fluctuation would not be so great, and would be better for all parties. The present price for the admission of foreign corn was 735., which was too high. The Hon. Gentleman then quoted from the evidence of several witnesses who had given evidence before the Committes of 1833 and 1836, in order to show that those well acquainted with the subject were of opi nion that the remunerating price lay between 565. and 645. The Hon. Member then proceeded to say that though some parties might be anxious to go farther than others might think fit, that was no reason for refusing an inquiry into the subject, provided they thought it necessary to make some alteration in the existing law. Mr. Can ning had formerly proposed a scale, of which he ( Mr. Pryme) was disposed to approve. That scale was that when the price reached 70s. tae duty should be Is., and not when it reached 735. as at present. That scale of Mr. Canning's had been formerly set aside, and the present one had been adopted in its stead. The reason why he adhered to that proposal was, it was the most simple one which could be devised, and that it would not differ from the present scale, except in amount. He believed that a total change in the present system would be at. tended with great inconvenience, and could not be safely carried into effect. But some parties asked, why not have a fixed duty? The objection which he (Mr. Pryme) had to such a duty was, it would be impracticable when prices were high. In the years 1814 and 1815 that had been the case, and there was then practically no restrictions on the trade in corn, for so great was the scarcity in those years, that the Government of the day proposed to Parliament that corn should be imported duty free. If a period of such scarcity were again to occur, they would feel the in. convenience of a fixed duty. It had been stated by some Hon. Members that a complete exclusion of foreign corn would be the best means of insuring abun dant provision at home. He thought that every thing showed the con trary. He contended that a permanent and regular supply would be best secured by imposing on foreign corn such a duty as would offer that protection to the farmers of this country as the taxes imposed on land rendered them fairly entitled to. No one could deny that it was certainly desirable that we should import some por. tion of the corn of other countries, in order that they might take our manufactures in return.—( Hear, hear.) The only inducement to the agriculturist to grow more corn than he wanted himself, was the procuring of those com forts or luxuries which the manufacturers supplied ; and the agriculturists depended more, on the mercantile interest than they might suppose. The Hon. Member here referred to some statements showing that in Birmingham soon after the peace, when the greatest manufacturing distress pre vailed, the demand for agricultural produce diminished one half, and it could not be doubted that the greater the com mercial prosperity the better for the agricultural interest. ---( Hear, hear.) The President of the Board of Trade had stated that he did not think there was much prospect of fo reign States relaxing their restrictive provisions upon the removal of our's. But he thought it was according to the principles of human nature that those States should be wil ling to admit our manufactures if we received their pro duce. Different States finding themselves possessed of pe culiar facilities for the production of particular commodi ties, would inevitably find it to be their mutual inte rest to interchange each other's surplus commodities. There were stages in the progress of every nation in which the exportation of raw produce was prevalent. Thus, for instance, in our own country, during the reign of Elizabeth, it appeared we were great exporters of raw produce, which we received,back from foreign countries in a manufactured state. We had now changed places with Continental States ; and there were such countries as Po land and America, in which, there being land in abund ance, there was every inducement to export their raw agri cultural produce, and of course it was for their advan. tage to exchange the overplus for our manufactures. It had been said that a reduction of the Corn-laws would render us dependant upon foreign nations for our supply of corn, and that in time of war that supply might be cut off. But we had experience of the contrary. In a war in which we had almost the whole world against us there was no deficiency of foreign corn ; and when other na tions sent us their produce at that time, was it likely that they would fail to do so when no longer under the domination of France ? So long as we preserved anything like a navy there was no fear that the nations with which we were at war could prevent those with which we were at peace from sending us their corn. He thanked the House for the attention with which he had been heard. But he feared he had incurred the hostility on the one hand of those who desired the total repeal of the Corn-laws, and, on the other hand, of those who were opposed to any alteration what ever. He had placed himself between two fires, and he ex pected to receive the shots of both.—(No, and a laugh.) His own feelings were bound up with agriculture; but he thought that timely concession was advisable. The " agitation" would not cease, and if the dearness of food increased, the people would demand greater concessions than would at present content them.—( Hear, hear.) He concluded by moving as an amend ment that the words " with a view to reduce the average prices on which the duties are imposed," be added to the motion. The Hon. W. DUNCOMBE would not trouble the House at that late period of the debate, but from the absence of his Hon. Colleague, and that he himself bad presented, in the course of the Session, 300 petitions against the alteration of the present system. Those petitions were not, as had been asserted, got up by the landlords ; and far from any change having taken place in the opinions of the agriculturists, he believed there was a general opinion amongst them that the present Corn-laws could not be altered without great danger to the country. The lien. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire had pre sented a petition from Doncaster, which he stated to be from a purely agricultural district, and he said that a great change of opinion had taken place among agriculturists on this subject. He (Mr. Duncombe) had presented a counter-petition from Doncaster ; every person who had signed that petition had also affixed his residence, and he believed that petition was more numerously and respectably signed than the other. He admit ted that numerous petitions had been presented from other places, and that the numbers entitled them to respect and atten tion ; but how, he would ask, had those petitions been got up? Why persons had been stationed with tables at the cor ners of the streets, and men and boys, as they went to their work, were requested to sign the petitions ; and if they asked what the petitions were for, they were told they were for cheap bread. Under these circumstances, he was not surprised that the working classes should have joined in the clamour which had been, he would say, most unconstitutionally raised on this subject throughout the country. He had also presented peti tions from manufacturing towns in favour of the present Corn-laws, and in a note from a most respectable gentleman, which had accompanied one of those petitions, that gentleman had expressed the disgust which was felt by many manufacturers themselves at the attempts of the Anti- Corn-law League to sow dissensions between the farmers and their servants, by sending paid agents amongst them to assert falsehoods respecting the landowners. Paid agents had been sent to propagate these defamations from town to town, to scat ter poison among the people, by inflaming their passions on a subject, in treating of which the greatest delicacy and caution were necessary.—(Cheers.) The motion of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton involved two distinct propositions ; first, a proposition for a total repeal of the Corn-laws, which is said to be the object of the majority of the petitioners on that subject, and of the greater number of gentlemen on the other side of the House. There was also the proposition which seemed to meet with the approval of some of the Members of the Cabinet, to the effect of substituting a fixed du t y in lieu of the present ' sliding scale. (Hear, hear.) He had no hesitation in saying that if the House should go into a Com mittee on this subject, he should, rather than support the fixed duty proposed by the President of the Board of Trad e' see the Corn-laws totally repealed alt o ge th er — (Cheers)—that had long been his decided opinion, and he had often ex p ressed it. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that he thought a fixed duty of 7s. or Bs. a quarter to decline rapidly after the price reached 605., and to cease altogether when it should reach 705., would be a sufficient protection to the agricultural in terest. He was convinced that such a duty would be d e l us i ve, and as a protection totally inoperative. The Right Hon. Gen tleman had alluded to the opinion of other persons as to the advantage of a fixed duty. Now he would call the attention of the House to the opinion of Mr. Canning on this subject. In 1827 Mr. Canning had said that a fixed duty of 125., and the same argument would apply to a fixed duty of 7 s . or B s ., would be to press heavily upon the public when the price of wheat was, say at 112 s. a quarter, and to afford no p ro t ect i on whatever to the farmer when the price was low, say at 385,. and that under a sliding duty they would have the best chance of giving steadiness of price, and a due protection to agricul ture, without pressing heavily upon the public. In 1828, when th e p resen t law was brought forward, Mr. Huskisso n h a d ex p resse d his opinion against a fixed duty, as likely to increase the general misery in periods of scarcity, and of no a d van t age to the corn-growers , as giving him pro tection, or as guaranteeing a steadiness of price, The Right Hon. Gentleman, in stating the advantages of a fixed duty had said that great fluctuations in price had occurred under the existing law. Now in America, where there was a fixed duty, the fluctuation had been greater than in this country, therefore a fixed duty afforded no protection whatever against fluctuations in price. The fluctuations had been less under the present system than under any former one, The average price of wheat under the present law had been 575., while during the preceding ten years, from 1818 to 1828, the price had been 61s. This showed that the average price of corn under the present system had been lower than it was before ; he there fore, was of opinion that a fixed duty would by no means pre vent a fluctuation in the price of corn. The proposition of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, if acceded to by Parliament would involve the consideration of of such a number of facts, that it would be impossible to enter into the consideration of them unless the Government were prepared to say that they would come forward with a proposition for the total remodelling the whole taxation of the country ; and unless they were prepared to do this, he would say that it would be most hazardous and dangerous for the House to consent to a proposition for the repeal of the Corn-laws. He did not be believe that a repeal of the Corn-laws would satisfy the work ing classes of the country. In another speech of Mr. Huskis son, he had stated that if a free trade in corn was to take place, wages would fall, and the operatives would be injured. As he (Drr. Duncombe) had said before, however dangerous the repeal of the Corn-laws might be, he should prefer a total repeal to the fixed duty proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo site. Silk, linen, hides, copper, china, and almost every article of manufactures, had a protecting duty, and unless the Right lion. Gentleman was prepared to give up those duties, on wh at pretence of justice could he come to the landowners, and say that he should take away from them their protecting duty ? Were they, he would ask, to take off that duty, because some gentlemen who held their parliament sometimes in Manchester, and at others in Palace-yard, chose to agitate the country upon the subject? Did they think that the landed interest were so soft or so foolish as to put up with such treatment ? ilf they did, they would find themselves deceived. Why did not Hon. Gentle men say what they want ?—(Hear. ) Why did they seek to ,get what they wanted by pretence ? He hoped, however they deluded the people out of doors—but he hoped they did not think they had deluded the landed interest in the House or eut of it. He did not believe they were themselves prepared for free trade in every thing.—(Hear, hear.) He believed they wished to get rid of British agriculture for their own advantage, and for conferring a benefit on one class of the community at the expense of another. But let him tell them any injury so inflicted would revert on every interest of the community, and that they were deceiving themselves if they thought any but the most disastrous effects would be the result. For himself, he had no hesitation in saying he was at all times most anxious to give his support to any measure which would conduce to the improvement of the condition of any class of the community, and more especially the working classes, on whose welfare and prosperity must always depend the honour and prosperity of the country.—(Hear, hear.) But be lieving, under present circumstances, that it would be the greatest folly to adopt any measure to render this country de pendant on foreign nations—and that those countries which flourished most in ancient or modern times were those who had offered the greatest protection to the cultivation of land, he felt obliged to give his vote in support of the petitions which he had presented to the House in support of the present Corn laws. They had only two Ministers of the Crown who had addressed the House on the subject ; whether the others agreed with the opinions they had expressed he did not know, but they knew those in the other House did not concur in them, —(Hear, hear.) They had, however, made it an open question, and justified doing so by appealing to the Catholic question and others ; but he thought if there were one question more than another which ought not to be made an open ques tion, it was this one. He would not detain the House longer than to read to them an extract from a letter of the Noble Lord (J. Russell) to his constituents on the present subject, after which he would sit down, thanking them for the attention with which he had been favoured.—( The Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from a newspaper, which, however, was inaudi ble in the gallery. ) Mr. CLAY said the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton was for a Committee to consider the sys tem of the Corn-laws, and their reply to it was, that there was no occasion for it, that they were working particularly well, and that there was no ground to induce th House to recon sider them. Now if it were true that the effect now flowing from the Corn-laws was no ground to induce the House to re c,nsider them, then he was at a loss to conceive by what ur gency of circumstance the House could ever be induced to con sider any laws to require amendment. What, in the nature of things, must be the character of truths which should induce that House to consider any existing law, but that they had failed in the object for which they were intended, end to give contentment to the people? But he would ask which of those desired proofs were wanting to demonstrate the evils of the working of the Corn-laws. Had these laws answered the pur poses for which they were intended, which were two-fold— First, to secure the steadiness of prices and to protect the farmers on the one hand, and the consumer on the other, from ruinous fluctuations, and again to render was independent of foreign supply ? What has been their effects? Fluctuations the most violent, variation in prices, almost from year to year, amounting to 100 per cent. ; varia tions that at one time threatened the farmer with ruin, and loaded the table with petitions complaining that the Corn-laws did not give sufficient protection, while at another tome they were such as to reduce the lower classes of landowners almost to ruin. He observed in Hon. Gentlemen opposite a disposition, first, to deny these laws produced fluctuations, and, secondly, to assert there were greater fluctuations elsewhere. He had great reluctance to address the House at all, but still more to use arguments which he had already ad dressed to them. (Here the Honourable Gentleman became inaudible, in consequence of the noise in the House.) It was also asserted that fluctuations of prices were greater in other countries than in this, and this statement was made on the ground of papers recently laid upon the table of the House. As to the laws rendering us independent of foreign countries, it was enough to say that within the last two years we had im ported no less than four millions of quarters. Our greatest mer chants, our most extensive manufacturers, and all the commu nities in our largest towns, declared that those laws im pair ourhome as well as our foreign commerce, they narrowed the markets for our manufactures, and while they enhanced the prices of the food of the artizan they limited the chance of his employment. He charged upon those laws the formation of the Prussian League, even although the Hon. Member for Maid stone last night attempted to show that there was no connec tion between them. He charged also upon them the large and sudden drain of bullion which had so deranged all the relations of the country during the last two years, for those countries who had nothing but corn we took care to exclude from all our commerce, and when we were obliged to take their corn, see were obliged to pay in gold, for they had no market for our manufactures, nor was there then time to create one. The dissatisfaction against these laws was spreading far and wide, and was quite independent of the peaceful, legal, and constitutional agitation now carrying on by the League. Agitation never furthered any cause that was not essentially based upon truth and justice. If these laws were just and politic they would stand against all agitation, but as they were in his opinion founded on injustice and impolitic they must sink under it. Whatever the indifference which lion. Gentlemen might feel as to the wishes of the nation at large he (Mr. Clay) believed that it would not be possible to maintain the existing law against the great commercial and manufacturing interests of the country, and all the trading towns of the empire against the opinion so widely spreading that before a long period could elapse the opposition to the system would be universal. He was glad to find that the Right Honourable Member for Tamworth was in his place, as he wished to cite a passage in his speech, on the vote of non-confidence in Ministers, which bore upon the present question. The Hon. Gentleman was proceeding to read an extract from the speech he had referred to, when The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member would not be in order in reading a passage from a printed paper. Mr. CLAY said that he should in that case refer in gene ral terms to a passage stating the opinions of the Right Hon, Member.—( Order, order.) The SPEAKER said that as the Hon. Member had re ferred to the extract of a passage from a speech on the non confidence debate, any attempt to introduce it in another form would be but a shallow disguise.—(Cheers from the Opposi tion benches.) Mr. CLAY was again proceeding (amidst cries of " Order, order") to comment on the opinions expressed on a former oc casion by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, when Sir R. PEEL said that as the speech referred to had been published in the form of a pamphlet, he had no objection to any portion of it being read by the Hon. Member, but he pro tested against the Hon. Member giving his opinions with varia tions of his own.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME said that, under the circumstances, he thought there could be no objection to the Hon. Gentleman being al lowed to read the passage in question. Mr. CL AY then read the extract, in which the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth stated that his opinions on the Corn law question remained unchanged, but that he could not posi tively refuse, under any circumstances to alter the existing scale. 'Was not he (Mr. Clay) entitled to infer from that pas sage that he would not commit himself to the assertion that the system was a perfectly good one; and, secondly, was he not jvstified in thinking that the Right Honourable Member was bound on the present occasion to express his opinion on the subject. For his own part, ke should ob serve that he was entirely opposed to a sliding scale. He believed that any alteration in the law which left un touched the machinery of the present system of averages and graduated duties would leave untouched the most noxious ele ment of that system, and would be utterly nu gatory.—( Hear, hear.) For the evil of the present system was, that under the guise of free trade, it rendered free trade for any beneficial purpose impossible. No country on the Continent could grew corn for us when we at one time required what would be in convenient to supply, and at another time allowed the surplus commodity to perish in warehouses.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He would not, however, object to a mo derate fixed duty. He thought it would be a great im provcrnent on the present system. He would now call upon Hon. Gentlemen opposite to consider well whether it would be wise any longer to refuse the demand for inquiry.—( Hear, hear.) This was no political question, and ha i d t e o v u e g r h t b e n e ont found n b d e treated as one—(Hear) —but i t was ( one even mere dangerous--a question the interests of the ) It was a question ranging on oneesti.owside landed proprietary, na t u rally identified with the highest. ranks, , it was and on the other side, the r est of the community • and every day drawing more c l e arly and is metly th e li ne . li ) eved li to e n o," frombutthaes O w p h p a o t s h it e io b n e of demarcation. — (" No, Of this, too, h e was was not stating this for his opiinniont:he c ountry.—(H ear .) H e be a rapidly rising impression , e a r t ou th s e w r h a e t n e believed that a landed proupfrtthettear)na,tiion good condition, was most n. important to the welfare ne ver be ros manufacturing interests were distressed. the commercial and certain that this p ro p rietary coo that our population increased Let it be remem bered annually' owwere they to be provided for of half a million hear.) Could they be p under a system rovided for —( Hear, hear , which limite d the su pp l y to our o wn country.— at ( Hear, hear.) believede that present ve r y beneficial results would flow from an alteration in the s y ste m , and that every ye ar as it passe d r emoved those results further, of foreign nations.—(Hear, hear. ) and increased the alienationt,l re _ use ray such deference to the Would the House then s a iu l to f t the inquiry ? ( Hear. ) In that general cry as not tog m iddle term, some friendly compr om i se inquiry, doubtless, so me might be effected, to remove the ear evils of a system detri men t a l to our best interests. —(Hear, 1 , • cor a m i ntake of the Mr. F. SHAW mer el y wisheti s the ent he Hon. M em ber for Wolverhamptonto rect to statem a made t to this country every year. that Ireland was sending less whew to retus which controverted lie referred the Hon. Gentleman the capabilities of Ireland for the statements he had made as to and • h corn. The Hon. Learned Gentle supplying England with uantity of wheat exported man then read returns of the q e „ from Ireland to England in each y ar, _ 1 8 r 37 m _the 3d of January, 1800, to the 3d of January, fro m which it appeared, that with th e except io n conti of the two years 1821 and 1828, there ha d been a nual increase, but that in 1833 the quantity imported exceeded that of any other year, and from that year to 1838 there was a f a lli ng o ff. In the Report of the Railway Commissioners, also, a great in crease in the export of wheat from Ireland to this country was proved. In 18 9 5 the number of quarters imported into Great Britain from Ireland was 283,240 ; in 1835 it was 425,522. In 1835 the quantity of flour imported was three times, cr nearly four times that imported in 1825 ; and there was a corres ponding increase in the imports of tea, coffee, cotton, and other commodities from this country to Ireland. The Hon. Member had referred to the opinions of the Hon. Member for Dublin, and of Mr. Sharman Crawford, to show that the Corn aws were not beneficial to Ireland. But had he looked to the reasons which those gentlemen gave for the repeal of those 1 laws? At a recent meeting in Dublin, Mr. S. Craw- I ford said it would be better for Ireland not to export any part of its agricultural produce, and that, therefore, it was for the interest of Ireland that the Corn-laws should be repealed. Mr. O'Connell's reason for advocating the repeal was, that Ireland had no chance of recovering a part of the wealth abstracted by absentees, until England should have a free trade in corn, which would oblige them to come back. In another part of Mr. O'Connell's speech, another rea son for its advocacy was to be found—" That there was no Chartist in England more strongly imbued with democratic principles than he was." Those two gentlemen were entirely opposed to each other on political questions, and the Hon. Member would find that the majority of Irish Members would vote against his motion.—( Hear.) In this country the labourer might find a transition from the wholesome pursuits of agriculture to manufactures, but the Irish peasantry had no such resource. There had been a great improvement in their condition for the last two or three years, but they were so near the verge of want it was fearful to con template the possibility of driving them nearer. It was said that they would find employment in the manufactories of Eng land, but there was already too great an influx of them in this country, and if the Corn-laws were repealed there would be an inundation of them. He would not trespass on the House at that late hour, and would content himself with saying that no case had been made out for the alteration. Mr. VILLIERS denied that he had misrepresented the re turns, which he said proved that there had been a falling off in the supply of wheat from Ireland of late years. On the motion of Mr. BROTHERTON, the debate was ad journed till to-morrow (this day). The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Twelve o'Clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 2. Their Lordships met soon after Five o' Clock. On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON, the Conso lidated Funds (8,000,0001.) Bill was read a third time, and passed. _ _ CORN-LAWS. The Earl of HADDINGTON presented petitions from the county of Ross against the repeal of the Corn-laws. Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a similar petition from Yorkshire. Lord H ATHERTON presented a petition from West Bromwich, in Staffordshire, signed by 4,500 persons, praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws. The Noble Lord presented a number of petitions to the same effect from other places in Staffordshire. The Earl of HARD \VIC KE presented several petitions from places in Cambridgeshire, against any alteration of the Corn-laws. The petitioners stated that the county cf Cambridge was altogether an agricultural one, and was also in a great measure artificial, its produce having doubled during the last thirty years. They said that the total repeal of the Corn-laws without any substitute, would be ruinous, and they feared that a fixed duty would be no essential protection. He had petitions to present from the labourers of two parishes in that county, respecting which he had to say, in the first place, that the people o ad abstained from urging their labourers to sign petitions ; and, se condly, that the petitioners stated that they were now earning 16s. and 18s. a week; but that if the Corn-laws were repealed, their employment would be greatly, if not altogether, diminished. The NOBLE LORD then presented, on the part of the Earl of Cardigan, who had left town, several petitions from places in Northamptonshire. The Marquis of L ANSD 0 NVNE laid on the table papers relating to mortality, which were a sequel to papers previously printed on the same subject. Lord MELBOURNE presented several petitions from Forfarshire against Intrusion of Ministers. The Noble Lord presented also a petition from the Provost and Town Council of the Royal Burgh of Jedburgh, which he said expressed great respect for their Lordships, but not quite so much for the Clergy, and prayed their Lordships not to pass any Bill that would increase the power of the Clergy. The petition we understood to be generally in favour of the existing system of patronage. The Earl of ROSEBERY presented a petition, nu merously signed, from Forfarshire, against the law of Church patronage. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM, after presenting a number of petitions from Cornwall, said he would take the opportunity of expressing his regret at having seen what be had said respecting the pay of tbc labourer mis-stated in a Morning Paper. It was stated that he said he thought the labourer was well paid at 9s. a-week. That was not his opinion, and he had never so stated. The more the labourer could get the better satisfied he should be. He only hoped and trusted the Corn-laws would never be re pealed, for if they were the wages of the labourer would be reduced to a very small pittance. The Marquis of WESTMINSTER said the petitions which had been presented in favour of the Corn-laws were many of them not very numerously signed, and a great many came under suspicious circumstances, as coming from the same parts of the country, the petition he had to pre sent was of a different sort—it represented the opinions of a large community of Liverpool. If their Lordships had attended to the representations that had been given, they , had heard that great distress prevailed in the manufactur ing districts.—[The Noble Marquis here read an extract, as we understood, from a speech of Mr. Baring, now Lord Ashburton, in opposition to the present Corn-laws.] Lord ASHBURTON said, that if the Noble Marquis had made a motion on the subject of the Corn-laws, he should have been very glad to discuss the question with him. The Noble Marquis, however, had attacked hire (Lord Ashburton), calling him a " sentinel" in the matter, while the Noble Marquis took care that from day to day he should keep that sentinel on the qui vive. The House would therefore excuse him, if he offered a few words in reference to his alleged change of opinion. In 1825, he had certainly taken a strong part in the House of Commons, in a proposition which was then made for augmenting what was called the protecting duties on corn. Ho might have used on that occasion expressions strongly indicative of his apprehension of over-stretching such protection, and he should observe, that the fashion of the House of Commons, at that time, was to go into extremes on such subjects. The question, however, at that time was not a repeal but an increase on the protect ing duty of from 665. to 80s. Many Gentlemen in the House of Commons even thought that 80s. was not suffi cient, and especially Sir Henry Parnell, who expressed his opinion that 120 s. would be a fair protecting duty. Sir Henry Parnell, however, he believed, was now in fa vour of an alteration in the existing laws. If he (Lord A.) had also changed his opinion on the subject, it would not be the first time that he had done so on subjects of greater importance, and he should not have the slightest hesitation in stating such change to the House. If at any time he had thought that the protecting duty which had been established was working iil for the great interests of the country, he should be the first to express such an opinion. He should be certainly sorry to see an extreme protection on corn—he should be sorry to see that protection raised beyond what it is at present. If there bad been a proposition to take into consideration any particular scale of duty, he would not say that he should be unwilling to enter on the consideration of that subject, but he was not willing to enter on the con sideration of it with persons who were totally hostile to the protection of our agriculture.—( Hear, hear, bear.) In the Committee he mentioned, as strongly as he could, the necessity of bonding corn, although his opinion was rather in favour of relaxing than of tightening the system. But to deny the necessity for any protection at all, would introduce such a change in the property of the country as would tend to revolution. Wtien the question came under consideration he would state his reasons for maintaining the system as it is existed, and for thinking that it had worked well, even for the manu facturers, who were represented as so much injured by it. The Noble Marquis opposite had great objections to fluc tuation in prices, and he mentioned that as one of the greatest evils of the Corn-laws. But it was proved by a paper which had lately been laid before the House, that from 1815 to 1838, the fluctuations in Prussia, Poland, Westphalia, Sweden, Bourdeaux, Riga, and Trieste were of double the extent of those in England during the same years. The Earl of RADNOR said his Noble Friend must not be angry if the great variations of opinion of a person of so much talent, and who had taken so prominent a part in this question, were much commented on. After the documents which had been read by the Noble Marquis, his Noble Friend could not be surprised at being put on the qui dive, as he called it. He ( Lord Radnor) thought there were most unaccountable alterations of opinion in his Noble Friend since 1825. There were great discrepancies in the very speech which he had delivered that evening. The variations of opinion of his Noble Friend were of a most extraordinary kind, for they wore not merely as to the working of the law, or such as experience of the measure might induce him to come to, but against the very principle on which the Legislature wits called upon to Act, and on which lie himself stated the Legislature ought and must act. The Noble Earl then read and commented upon extracts from the speeches of the Noble Lord in 1815 and 1828. After which the Noble Earl proceeded to say that he knew, on the best authority, that the greatest distress existed in the country. He had received a letter, describing to him cases of distress which it would harrass their Lordships' minds to hear. It existed to that extent that his correspondent, who had been ap pointed ono of a Committee to inquire into the state of dis tress, said that he had riot before the slightest con ception that any such distress did or could exist, and added, that though the Newspapers said they were improving he would tell him they were getting worse. In that town he (the Earl of Radnor) had been informed that a great machine manufacturer had discharged 250 workmen. It seemed to him that the ruin prophesied in the speech of his Noble Friend was fast approaching. The Noble Earl proceeded to say that a paper had been put into his hand which contained details of great import ance. In the first page there was a list of the countries in which the variations of prices had been less than in Great Britain. But they should recollect that those differences in other countries were owing to our own Corn-laws. The variations of price here affect the variations in exporting countries in a two-fold manner. Suppose the duty on corn was Is. in this country, that would make a charge of 2s. in other countries. There would be a rise in the price, and there would be an additional fal l in the duty ; so that the variation, as he had before stated, would be twofold. (The Noble Earl here proceed ed to read. an extract from a speech of Lord Ashbur ton ' s in 1828, sieswinegthe f the opinions which he then ent ertsined on the thought, subjectbe Corn-laws.) His Noble Friend could not, he d d to explain the s h u a r d pr h i e se ld d h a i t fi ms n el d f in a g t aotfheerrins advocate ertimethe opinions which he . Lord ASHBURTO N again procee c had never been an advocate for a total v should not sanction change in his opinions which had bereenpeaallluedfedthteo.cerinie laws, but he thought that th H os is e . . h N a l o ‘ b s l . e Fri e n behad talked lad been presented in but it should tooremem of thehigh n protective u a mher e f petitionstyo e. favour of a repeal of those a , orators were sent th rou g h the country for the purpose of bored, that wh en delegates assembled, and when itinerant showing that any law was the cause of suffering to the le, there would b e no difficulty in getting up petition s peop for its repeal. For his part, he certainly entertained less respect for petitions so got up than for any others. Why there had been a very able petition drawn up at one t i me by the Chamber of Commerce, at Manchester, stating their grievances, but containing no reference to the Corn-laws.—( Hear.) No doubt the difficulties of the f- 2/ ~~ ~?~n.~ 1~ manufacturing interests had temporarily arisen from the derangement of the currency, and nothing else. — k Hear, hear.) The fact was, however, that the manufacturing in terests had been going on with an increase of prosperity. --(Hear.) Last year alone there had been an increase in Ow cotton exports of 1,000,000/.—(Hear.) Practically the Corn-laws had worked well.—( Hear.) In conclusion the Noble Lord moved for returns of th e p r i ces o f wheat for the last year or two in England, and at several continental ports, also of the quantities imported into this country.—Agreed to. The Earl of HADDINGTON deprecated such irregu lar discussions on this great question, which ought, he said, to be substantially brought before their Lordsh!ps. He complained of the "run " which he said had been made against his Noble Friend, Lord Ashburton, for haying changed his opinion on the Corn-laws. Why he had heard that a Noble Earl opposite, who, when a Member of the House of Commons had opposed Reform in Parlia ment, had voted for the measure when he cameinto that House, yet nobody had attacked the Noble Earl for the change. Lord DUNC A NNON laid papers before their Lord slips—the papers moved for by the Bishop of Exeter respecting Canada. The Printed Papers Bill, and the Irish Corporation Bill, were put off till next week. SPANISH LEGION. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented some petitions from officers of the British Legion, and strongly urged upon the Government the justice of their taking im mediate steps to redress the grievances of these unfortu nate men, and especially as the Government had guaran teed for the Spanish Government that their contract should be fulfilled. The Gallant Officer who had commanded the Legion was unwilling, perhaps, to press the claims of the men who had served under him from feelings of delicacy, in consequence of the position which he now occupied ; at ail events, it was not for him to say why that Gallant Officer was silent as to those claims. He would, how ever, read a letter from him, which would confirm the views which he (the Marquis of Londonderry) had ex pressed on the subject of the expedition. (The Noble Marquis here read a letter from Sir De Lacy Evans in the year 1836, in which thEett officer stated the distress and dangers to which his men were exposed. The letter also alluded to the fact of the Spanish Government refusing to pay the arrears then due to the Legion. It stated that the national army of Spain was at the time better fur nished with every necessary than the British troops, who, being but recruits, stood much more in need of neces cessaries. General Evans enumerated the circumstances which had led to the formation of the Legion, and the promises held out to him by General Alava,:and the mem -bees of the Spanish Government. He complained that those promises had not been kept, though not from any want of good faith in the Spanish Government, but in consequence of the difficulties of their position. He con elided by stating, that he had made every exertion in his power to obtain a fulfilment of the engagements'inade to the men who were serving under him.) The Noble Mar quis proceeded to say, that the officers of the Legion were not politicians. They could not be able to judge how far the Government guaranteed the expense of the expedition. He was himself one of those who had protested against the undertaking, but that was not a reason why, when he saw them abandoned by those who had employed them, he should not stand up and humbly advocate their claims. If he saw the Government disposed to do justice to those parties, he would feel himself placed in a very different position. He wished to read to their Lord ships a letter he had lately received from Madrid to show how little probability there was that the claims of the Legion would be satisfied by the Spanish Government. ( T he Noble Marquis here read the letter in question, the writer of which stated that he saw no chance of a liquida tion of the debt due to the British legion. The fact was that that Legion was the child of Mendizabal, who alone took any interest in its affairs, while the present Ministry were totally indifferent on the subject.) The Noble Viscount opposite had lately urged on them the claims of the Noble Lord who had acted so distinguished a part in Canada. No one was more willing than he was to admit the merits of that Noble Lord, but at the same time it was the duty of the House not to forget the claims of those who were employed in a service subject to mire privations than those endured by our troops in Canada. The sum due to the Legion was not a large one, and it could not be supposed that the Spanish Ministry could not discharge it. Her Majesty the Queen of Spain, had lately alluded in her speech from the Throne to the improved state of her affairs. It would therefore be quite absurd to say that Spain, in consequence of its poverty, could not liquidate the debt in question. Under these circumstances he thought that the claim was one which could not be re sisted, and be trusted that the time was come for bring ing forward a motion both there and in the other House of Parliament for the purpose of addressing her Majesty to give orders that some effective measure should be taken for the payment of those men, and he thought it was im possible that the Government could resist so ju%t a de inand. The case would soon go before the public, and it would be said that the entire affair was a manoeuvring transaction, unworthy of the Spanish Government, and all those parties who had been mixed up with it. He would now read a letter from General Evans, and another from Mr. Williams, connected with the question. (The Noble Marquis here read the letters, which alluded to the injustice from which the Legion were suffering.) The Earl of CL A RENDON.—What is the date of Getters' Evans' letter. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY—It is dated the 19th of December, 1838. (The Noble Marquis also read a letter from Mr. Bradbury, in confirmation of his opi nions on the subject, and denying some assertions made by the Earl of Clarendon on a former occasion.) He handed over to the Noble Earl the documents to which he had referred, and he hoped the Noble Earl would give them his consideration. The Noble Viscount opposite (Lord Melbourne) had said that he would make every exertion to obtain the satisfaction of those claims. But declarations would not support those men and their fami lies. It was bis intention, therefore, to bring forward a motion in their Lordships' House after Easter, to support the motion which Sir George De Lacy Evans was to bring on in the other House, for an address to her Majesty, praying her to order measures to be taken to procure the settlement of the claims. He wished to ask the Noble Earl if he would object to give him copies of any corres pondence on the subject. Lord MELBOURNR, L ,Nnu must give notice. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY then gave notice that be would to-morrow move for copies of or extracts from any correspondence that had taken place between her Majesty's Government and the Spanish Government, in which her Majesty expressed her desire that the claims should be settled ; and for copies or extracts of the answer thereto. Lord MELBOURNE—No, I can't give that. Lord CL AR E NDON said that notwithstanding the importance which the Noble Marquis had given to these details, he thought their Lordships must see that their time was taken up too much and too often with these mat ters in which they could do nothing. He must give credit to the Noble Marquis for the motives of his dogged con sistency, which motives he had stated to be his affection for the Spanish nation, and the kindness he had expe rienced from the Government, and from every portion of the people—not excepting, perhaps, the inhabitants of that nunnery of which the Noble Marquis spoke on a for mer night. He (Lord Clarendon) had thought that this would have been the last instalment of his gratitude, with out the motion with which he proposed to support Sir De Lacy Evans's motion in the other House. He wasisorry for these discussions—ho was sorry for the sake of the Spanish people.—( Hear, hear.) They had hitherto re garded the Noble Marquis as the greatest enemy of Spain except the Carlists, and what would his friend Don Carlos think of the Noble Marquis now ? He thought he would best consult the convenience of the House, by simply stating what the Commission had done ; but he should like to know on what grounds the Noble Marquis claimed to represent the Legion. He could hardly con ceive that any of the officers of the Legion were so forget ful of their own dignity, as to apply to him for his coun c nance, after they had been so much vilified by him in that House. He had described the Legion as the refuse of society, the sweeping together of the most idle and worth less of the whole population ; that in Spain they were drunken, idle, and cruel; that in return for the kind ness of Don Carlos to his prisoners, they murdered in cold blood 130 Carlist prisoners. He did not think that they would make him their representative, unless he had made an ample retractation, and their Lordships had also a right to expect an ample retractation. If he was in com munication with the persons of whom he made such state ments, he ought to say whether he had ascertained that those statements were incorrect. If be had not ascertained it, how could he answer for the statements he now made on the authority of men so utterly worthless ? If the men were so worthless, it was no wonder that the Spanish Government was so slow to pay the arrears of men who had done them so much mischief. As the Noble Marquis was in the habit of calling on the Government to give him categorical answers, he (Lord Clarendon) was entitled to ask him for categorical answers to those questions. But it really would not do — it was " too bad "—that one f time he their h t lie came down vilifying those men, complaining e wor thlessness, and the mischief they had done to Spain,and a nother time came down comp lainin g about .the neglect of their pay, the disregard of their service!, comet the d.e frauding them of their just claims by a delusive s_ just sion. And then talking of General Alava, (who was the companion again' in arms and friend of the Noble . Marquis), and complaining of his insincerity and cr ue l treatme nt of those n —complainmg even of the h osp i tality which the General n e was receiving in this count r y : But be would occupy their Lordships time by stating a few acts. The co mmission was transferred from Madrid to Isondon because the principal part of the men w ere i n England. One Commissioner was appointed by the Le gion, another by the Spanish Government ; two referees were appointed, one by the Spanish Government, another by England. No commission could be more honourably formed nor any system better devised to procure strict justice to the parties. The commission closed its labours a few days ago, and he had received a report from Mr. Alcock, who stated that the just interests of the Legion had been strictly attended to—that all claims had been pa tiently examined. The whole amount claimed was 280,0001., and 3415 certificates were signed by the Com missioners, who thus allotted 260,000/. to the claimants, and 9000/. was set to the credit of 1500 other claimants. He believed that the report of the Commission, although it be unsatisfactory to the Noble Marquis, and to those who had brought forward some exorbitant claims, would yet prove satisfactory to those who, like superior officers of the Legion, were desirous of an honest and fair settlement of the claims. The Commission having closed their labours, the amount of debt due from the Spanish Go. \Torment was pretty clearly ascertained, and his Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Affairs would makeseuse of every means in his power to proc ure a spec y t tlement of it. The Spanish Governme nt was at presen in a very embarrassed state, but he knew thaatndthteLltootkbeedy upon this debt in the most sacr ed li g ht, would make use of every exertion in their power e. to pay the claims of the Legion as speedi l y as possi 1 The Marquis of LONDONDEwRhRi h' t n e N r O p t! lye Esaid l that notwithstanding the jee rs with h a d listened to the conclu had commenced his speech, he sion of it with the utmost satisfrtetion. He 1•+ e however, to know what was the present worth of the cernfi cotes issued by the Spanish Government—would any (3,e purchase them at a discount of 50 per cent ? The Noble Earl said the Spanish Government would do their utmost, but they bad been four years doing their utmost, and what had it all come to ? Why did not the Noble Earl insist on the payment of the claims, the justice of which he admitted ? The Noble Earl asked why he now became the advocate of the officer! of the Legion, after having reviled them ? The petitions he had presented had 400 signatures ; their friends had deserted them, and therefore he took up their cause. He had never disparaged the bravery of the officers; be had said that the men might have been led astray, but that was the fault of the service they were set upon, and the want of management in conducting that service. He had never said a single word against the bravery of the officers. He had been accused of attacking General Alava. He had the greatest personal respect for General Alava, but he found fault with him for remaining in this country as the representative of his Government, after the want of attention to their claims. The Noble Earl had alluded to the person who had drawn up his brief. He (the Mar quis of Londonderry) had received piles of letters korn officers on this subject; he had sent those letters t%the agents of all the officers, and from him he had derived his information. He did not object to the promotion of the fifty-six officers, to whom be had alluded the other night, but that was an additional reason why the others should not be neglected. He trusted that the de claration of the Noble Earl would go forth to the public, and that that promise would be better kept than the guarantee of last year. The Earl of CL ARENDON—I forgot to mention I never gave any guarantee. In fact, how could I give any guarantee for the Spanish Government to pay the money? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY had understood that the Noble Earl had made that declarat icn, that the Legion should receive their arrears of pay. He hoped that the promise of the Spanish Government would be fulfilled, and with that hope he would remains at stied, until afte r Easter, when, if it were not settled, he Won d again bring forward the subject. The Duke of WELLINGTON understose the Nobb Earl would - state that two referees had been ppo'nted, one by the Spanish Government, and the other by lat! Majesty's Government, or the Secretary of State. This brought the Commission to be a Commission under Government, and he believed that the Secretary of State had received a report on that subject. Now it would be desirable that the Noble Lord would be so good as to lay that paper on the table of the House. He did not understand that the Noble Viscount objected to the production of that paper, and it would be very convenient that• it should tie ie possession of his Lordship. Viscount MELBOURNE said the paper could not k got at. One Commissioner was appointed by the Spen4sh Government, nod another by the officers of the Legion, with which the Government had nothing to do. The Duke of WELLINGTON understood there were two referees appointed, one by the Spanish Government and the other by the British Government. This made it in part an English Commission. He understood the No ble Earl to state that the Commissioners had been before the Secretary of State, and made a representatiem to him. He would suggest that this should be laid before their Lordships. Viscount. MELBOURNE would produce that Report, if on consideration it appeared there was no objection to it. :VENING EDITION. POOR-LAWS (IRELAND.) The Marquis of WIMTNCEATH would give notico of a motion for inquiry into the election of certain Oeardians in Ireland for the 9th instant. The Marquis of NOR M ANBY said that he hoped the motion would be postponed—it went to cast a slur upon Mr. Nicholl, who could not be informed of the notice until Sunday, and could not communicate any informa tion to him before Thursday.—(Hear, hear, hear.) This was, he thought, a most delicate subject, as affecting the introduction of the Poor-laws into Ireland. He was not now making any objection to the inquiry, but he would suggest that it should be deferred until after Easter. The Marquis of WESTMEATH would be the last person to do anything unfair by Mr. Nicholl, who was very little affected by the motion; not more than he was by the papers already on the table. The motion aftected the successful working of the Poor-law in Ireland, and he should persevere. The Marquis of NORMANBY understood the Noble Marquis would confine his statement to what was con tained in the papers on the table. Their Lordships adjourned at Half-past Eight till to morrow (this day). PARLIAMENTARY DI VISION. (From the Dotes and Proceedings qf Me House of Commons.) TUESDAY, MARCH 31. SALE OF BEER (No, 2.) BILL. Order for Second Reading readl Motion made, and Ques tion proposed,—" That the Bill be now read a second time :" —Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words "upon this day six months :"—Question put, " That the word now' stand part of the Question :"—The House divided : MAJORITY—AYES, 110. Acland, Sir Thoma s Filmer, Sir E. Philips, Igark kttwood, W. 1 Fleming, Admiral Plumptre, J. P. Bailey, J. \ Greene, T. G. Praed, W. T. Bailey, Joseph, jun. 1 Grimsditch, T. Protheroe, E. Baines, E. ' Halford, H. Plisey, Philip Baring, F. T. I Hall, B. Rice, E. B. Barnard, E. G. Hamilton, C. J. B. Ili,•hards, Richard Barington, Lord Hawkes, T. Itolleston, Colonel Basset, John Heatlime, G. J. Round, C. G. Ball, N. Hector, C, J. Rushbrooke,"Colonel Bethel!, R. Henr.iker, Lord Rushout, Bowles Blackburn, John I. Hepburn, Sir T. B. widen, LW Illakernore, R. Hindley, C. rlett, Hon. Y. Bradshaw, James Hodgson, R. Shaw, b. Bramston, T. W. Hope, Charles Slangy, ft. Briscoe, J. Hughes, W. B. Smyth, Sir G. 14 . Broadley, Henry Hurt, Francis Somerset, Lord G. Brocklehurst, J. Inglis, Sir R. H. Sotheron, T. E. Arotherton, J. Jernayn, Earl Spry, Sir S. B. Bruges, W. H. L. Jones, T. Teignmouth, Lord Buck, Lewis W. Kemble, Henry Thornhill, George Burrell, Sir C. M. Knight, Henry Gaily Townley, R. G. _ Burroughes, N. N. Lennox, Lord G. Turner, W. Cavendish, Hon. C. Lennox, Lord A. Vero. Sir C. B. Cavendish, Hon. G. Liddell, H. T. Vivi All. John linnis Chetwynd, W. Lygon. General Waddington. H. S. Compton, H. Mackenzie, Thomas Walker, R. Darby, George Mildma P. St. J. Welby, G. Earle Duffield, Thomas ?tiles, W. White, Andre* Dundas, C. W. D. .{onypenny, T. G. Winnington, 1 Du Pre, George Mordaunt, Sir J. Veinnington, H Eastnor, Viscount Packe, C. W. Worsley, liord Egerton, W. T. Paget, Lord Alfred Wyndham, W. Estcourt, T. G. B. Palmer, R. Young, Sir W. Evans, William Parker, John Farnham, a B. Parker, R. T. Feilden, W. Patten, John Wilson Fellowes, Edward Pendarves, E. W. TIELLERS. Pakington, John S. Sanford, E. A. Beamish, F. B. Bustleld, W. Duke, Sir James Ewart, W. Finch, Francis (Mon, W. 0. Gisborne, T. Hill, Lord k. M. C. Hothouse, T. B. Hume, Joseph Huinphery, J. NORITY—NOES, James, W. Johnson, General Jones, John Marsland, H. Morris, David Muntz, G. F. Muskett, G. A Pryme, G. Rundle, John Scholefield, J. Strickland, Sir G. Thornely, Thomas Vigors, N A. Wakley, Thomas Wallace, R. Ward, H. G. Williasos, W. Wilshere, W. Wood, Benjamin Ltias. Warburton, H. Alston, R. CORN LAWS. (FROM A CORRESPONDENT.) LIVERPOOL—WEninsDAT. This morning a Meeting of the Town Council was held in the Town Hall, Joshua Walmesley, Esq., Mayor, in the Chair, one of the objects of which was to take into consideration the propriety of petitioning the Legislature to repeal the Corn laws. Mr. Honosort contended that the Council ought not to in terfere in national questions, and that its duty solely consisted in attending to the interests of the borough. Mr. Alderman Slim triumphantly reputed this position, and showed that the present Corn-laws, by injuring the manufac turing interests of this country, very materially jeopardised the welfare of this port. Our trade was decreasing, because we refused to take corn from those who had it to spare ; and, what was worse, those nations had commenced manufacturing not only articles of apparel but machinery. In Zurich there was an establishment which consumed five tons of iron a day in making machinery ; and at Liege another, at which 4,000 hands were regularly employed. He also showed, from his own experience, that hosiery and cutlery might be imported into this country 20 per cent. cheaper than they could be bought at Nottingham and Sheffield. The Corn-laws had produced these effects, and therefore he proposed a petition to Parlia ment for their repeal. Mr. Alderman Hovr seconded the motion. Mr. Wits. RATHBONE proved that woollen cloth, manufac tured in Germany, could be had at Hull for 12s. 341: per yard, whilst at Leeds it would cost 18s. Unless the present system were altered, whatever official people might say, the trade of the country would go, and not return. Mr. War. WALLAcs Count said he supported the petition because it ca led the attention of the Legislature to the general evils arising from the Corn-laws. Their effect on the poor po pulation could scarcely be conceived. Mr. Bourox mentioned that Lord Snndon, the Conserntive ° o f f a his cha n ge Lordship'sinhsys tem, way of Memberand for tthae many g b r o e r a o t ug h, was in ethers favour were "ux of thinking. Mr. Alderman BLACKBURWE ably supported the petition. Mr. BUSHELL (a Tory) opposed it on the same grounds as Mr. Hodgson. Mr. Y',TES replied to the last speaker, and then the petttion was adopted without a division. It win be presented, on an early evening, by Lord Stwdon. NAVAL COURT MARTIAL.—Mr. F. Strong, master of the packet Skylark, was recently tried by Court Martial at Devonport, on charges of having behaved disre spectfully towards his commanding officer, Lieut. Ludt?, in November last. The expressions which he had used towards Lieut. Ludd were, " further than your being my commanding officer, I consider you my inferior in every respect." The warmth of feeling had been caused by an order 'for the women to leave the vessel. The accused was found guilty, bu t, h incon sequence of the extremely good charac ter which he b a: h ho rse previously to this affair, he was rnereLy sentenced admo nished, and was admonished accordingly. n week, some evil d isposed per. , b s at h oirl ow:n li g to to e the INCENDIARISM AT WHITBY.—On. hursday night or early on Friday morning week, Mary, of this place, son attempted to set fire ir to the t confined state of the atmosp then lying opposite 1% jury was done. The miscreants also took away some iron rode, . Ghere's boat -yard re_ of the vessel. Mr. Thomas Wright, the the working venting and displaced the machinery, evidently with the desigst of p which ' l , h o pe w il l - the offender, we sincere 7, be the o wner of the boat, has offered a reward of 201. Tor the appre liension of . . mean s of bringing them to justice.— Tyne Pilot. COLBURN'S KALENDAR OF AMUSEMENTS, ?„,,, 1840. —This Kalendar caters to the appetites of amuse for choice, which may c h ance t o puzz l e t h em I a lmost went-see kers, for every day in tli' year, and ofte n p resen t s t h em ; with a '.a m ri u et e y h as the want did b e f ore . B a ll s, masquerades, theatres, as concerts, exhibitions ; winter, summer, and harvest sports; cricket, wrestling, swimming, skating, rowing, and sailing ;racing, coursing, and steeple chasing; hunting, shoot ing, fishing; in short, pleasures, sports, and pastimes, of every kind and quality, and adapted to every grade and condition of lite, every season of the year, and every corner of the land. This is what this comprehensive little volume offers to the reader's choice ; and those who need its pleasant assistance, will not grudge the very moderate price that makes it availahli to all. It is embellished with twelve pretty illustrations, by R. Cruikshank, characteristic of each month of the year, and forms one of the most appropriate gift books that we have lately seen, especially for residents in the country. —New Moist*. ~~ ~~ 44. tzycr v the cas e he flee, unts the ma nate time the l e of ught i n o draw. The V in place ;ecre r that rn an, a not. move ,ns 1:1° st tho LOn .- , te 0